| IVOD_ID |
16527 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16527 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T15:46:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
07:15:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a68562ae2672450bbbb25e5a7d9476abbdb37a524d1b3d409a1a75b5e54671682adb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案19案。【報告事項】【如經復議則不予處理】
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於勞動部主管部分。
【3月17日、19日及20日三天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 15:46:00 |
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感谢观看 |
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好現在繼續開會那本會議議程為一處理113年度中央政府總預算戶屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案19案第二來邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況並備諮詢那第三繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算中央政府總預算案戶屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1806.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1825.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
關於勞動部主管的部分那現在介紹在場的委員及列席官員我們第一位是蘇星群蘇昭緯謝謝昭緯接下來是我們王振旭王委員接下來介紹的是林月琴林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1828.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1855.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那現在來處理 對不起還有介紹列席的官員第一位是部長洪森漢 勞動部部長洪森漢 謝謝還有勞動力發展署代理署長陳思昌 謝謝勞動基金運用局局長蘇益清 謝謝治安署署長周子蓮 謝謝還有勞動部級職業安全衛生研究所所長李伯昌 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1857.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1867.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
縱規師師長王厚誠勞動關係師師長王厚維還有勞動保險師師長陳美女謝謝還有勞動扶持退休師師長謝謙謙還有勞動條件及就業平等師師長蘇維琛謝謝還有勞動法務師師長傅費芝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1888.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1903.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
秘書處司長丁玉珍人事處處長江碧玲政工處處長周志信會計處處長林美信統計處處長梅家苑還有資訊處處長劉純坤採訪華人職業災害預防及重建中心執行長何俊傑 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1917.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1944.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
還有行政院主席總署基金預算處科長劉雅飛勞工保險局局長白麗珍我們現在來處理副主單位預算勞動部主管部分凍結報告案19案請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1945.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1965.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
報告事項處理勞動部行為一百一十三年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議分別檢送該部主管預算凍結案書面報告十九案第一至第三案為勞工保險局作業基金一職業災害預防預算凍結五十萬元二職業安全衛生文化促進教育訓練品質提升預算凍結三十萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1967.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1971.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
3.職業災害勞工重建預算凍結35萬元第4至第19案為就業安定基金4.綜合規劃業務預算凍結100萬元5.運用多元培訓模式辦理失業者及特定對象職業訓練預算合併凍結30萬元6.促進國民就業計畫預算合併凍結100萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1985.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1990.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
7.促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務預算合併凍結100萬元8.青年就業服務預算合併凍結50萬元9.微型創業鳳凰貸款利息補貼及創業協助預算凍結50萬元10.強化勞動力發展創新效能預算凍結50萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2004.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2012.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
11 推動勞工健康服務人才多元就業及營造健康工作環境促進就業計劃救保預算凍結10萬元12 外國人聘僱管理及許可計劃預算合併凍結500萬元13 辦理外國人跨部會協調事項等相關業務預算合併凍結50萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2024.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2030.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
14 補助衛生福利部辦理外籍看護工申審流程與國內照顧服務體系接軌方案預算凍結200萬元15 補助內政部營建署辦理營造業雇主申請外國人案件之前期審查業務實施計畫預算凍結15萬元16 推動雇主設置補給乳室與托兒設施措施救保預算凍結10萬元17 基金用途預算凍結2000萬元18 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2051.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2065.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一般行政管理計畫預算凍結830萬元19 勞動資料科學管理與應用研究業務預算凍結30萬元 宣讀完畢好 謝謝那有關於附所單位預算勞動部主管部分凍結報告案有異議如果沒有好 如果沒有異議那我們先做一下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2081.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2088.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
同意動之並提報院會好謝謝那接下來請勞動部洪部長來做報告喂好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2102.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2120.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主席 各位委員先進 各位記者朋友大家好那今天很榮幸在此提出本會期的業務報告那首先在勞動情勢方面113年度的勞動力人數較前一年同期增加5.8萬人就業人數增加6.7萬人失業率其實下降了0.1個百分點 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2121.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2143.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
男性與女性的勞參率差距減少了0.1個百分點實質經常性薪資的平均數及中位數分別比去年同期增加0.58%及1.09%接下來是本年度的施政重點最低工資法自今年上路每個月的最低工資調整為28590元每小時是190元約有257萬名的勞工受惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2150.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2170.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
令為促進薪資透明化我們預計在今年會修正就業服務法將薪資皆是的門檻調高到5萬元那為落實友善職場環境與維護工作平權今年將針對彈性暈流停停薪事辦的計劃的事辦的結果來進行檢討那也在準備相關優化的措施跟計劃而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2172.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2189.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不限事業單位規模提供企業辦理哺乳拖額設施或措施及補助經費協助企業營造育兒友善職場環境至於落實職場性騷擾方面我們已經協助地方政府建立處理機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2190.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2215.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
並優化性騷擾案件通報系統同時以培訓1611名的調查專業人才在攸關勞動者權益的勞保及退休金制度方面我們持續透過多元管道宣導年金的制度並檢討與修正相關法規同時為穩定及維持基金水位以藉由撥補及多元基金投資運用在113年勞保整體收支順差為 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2217.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2217.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那運用規模為7兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2236.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2254.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
7兆1287億元為舒緩義後景氣復甦的人力需求我們將參考義後改善缺工擴大就業方案的執行經驗在未來建立常態性缺工因應措施並加強跨部會合作提升媒合效能強化本國勞工投入缺工產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2255.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2279.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
另外也持续协助妇女青年中高龄及高龄者投入职场以增加劳动力为提升劳工就业技能我们透过职训管道办理各项就业导向的职前训练及在职进修训练同时配合国家重点产业发展强化数位转型绿能智慧机械等重点产业人才职训并且持续提升我国技能发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2281.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2305.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
積極參與國際技能賽事強化產業人才競爭力及台灣國際能見度那多元陪伴照顧服務事辦計畫在今年3月底前開始提供服務協助家庭照顧者重返或續留職場不離職此外因應就業服務法46條修正本部將邀集相關部會以及團體共同延伸新法的推動方式以保障重症家庭聘僱移工的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2306.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2321.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
在擴大延攬外國人才方面我們持續推動移工留才久用方案在今年1月止以核准41351名的外國中介人技術人才留台至於引進印度勞動力方面我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2323.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2341.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
定期召開工作會議妥善辦理引進印度移工的準備工作其次為了簡化移工聘僱及居留許可申請流程已與內政部移民署共同推動在臺移工一站式申請聘僱及居留整合服務目前已有145,993名僱主 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2348.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2364.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
58名移工受惠本部依據憲法法庭判決增訂工會法第6條之一明確規範廠廠工會範圍草案已於3月13日經行政院通過後續將送大院來審議那另外鼓勵勞資雙方協商及簽訂團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2368.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2374.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們提供簽訂團體協約獎勵金從113年至今1月已受理96件合法獎勵金1292萬餘元保障經濟較弱勢勞工透過司法程序維護自身權益本部於114年1月24號預告勞資爭議法律及生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2393.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2416.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
費用輔助辦法修正案擴大訴訟代理及必要費用輔助範圍並延長中高齡高齡者與身心障礙勞工必要生活費用輔助期間以降低勞工訴訟障礙此外在策進職場減災與強化勞工職災保護方面一直是本部刻不容緩的重要工作為預防勞工受到職場霸凌本部課證 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2418.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2432.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
積極研修職業安全衛生法增訂職場霸凌防治專章以其完善職場霸凌事件的申訴調查處理機制等規範以加強保護勞工的身心健康我們也積極推動營造工程的檢栽除持續規劃營造業的專案檢查並強化營造工程施工安全監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2438.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2455.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
訂定勞工檢查方針依風險分級執行監督檢查工作同時持續輔導中小企業提升安全衛生設施以及健全職業傷害防治與職災個案主動服務以保障工作者安全與健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2456.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2479.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我相信有效的制度的推動及完善政策的制定不僅需要政府部門的努力更仰賴各界的共同參與和監督勞工部其與自身不只是政策執行者更要是傾聽勞工需求回應社會的期待更成為勞資合作創造共好的好夥伴最後感謝各位委員的指教也期望各界持續給予我們建議謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2486.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2492.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 謝謝有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2495.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2514.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
現在開始詢問 做以下宣告 第一本會議委員諮詢時間為六加二分鐘 列席委員四加一分鐘 第二十點半截止發言登記 第三委員如果順便質詢 請於三個會前提出 預期不受理那第四暫定十點半休息十分鐘 第五本次會議不處理臨時提案 那現在請登記第一位委員黃國昌委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2523.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2523.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2533.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2557.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
部長好,在您今天的口頭報告還有印的PPT大概就有關於就業人數、勞動參與率、工資都做了說明但有一個獨特的地方我在口頭報告裡面沒有看到是針對我們目前台灣的工時到去年我們全年的總工時是多少時間?去年數字嗎?對,一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2559.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2583.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我直接跟部長講是2030個小時2016年我們的民進黨政府上台了以後蔡英文總統對勞工朋友提了六大保障然後其中一個最重要的是工時要減少因為長久以來台灣被稱為過勞之道您知道2016年的時候我們的總工時是多少時間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2585.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2588.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我直接跟部長講是20352016年的2035到2024年現在是2030部長您覺得我們現在台灣勞工的工時會不會過長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2598.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2615.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我覺得有檢討的空間你覺得有檢討的空間嗎因為我相信部長過去在社運界也好或是您上一任當委員的時候那任何勞工過勞要增加有關於國定假日的主張我相信讓很多勞動朋友都很有期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2615.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2644.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那只不過說我們前兩天在內政部針對在內政委員會針對有關於國定假日要增加這樣子的議題的時候有很多委員也很關心說您上任了部長以後針對這樣子的政策目標你會不會繼續貫徹來加以執行還是說針對勞動部的立場會跟內政部一樣目前的國定假日有關於增加放假日的時間勞動部並沒有打算要做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2645.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2666.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我跟黃委員說明我想黃委員很清楚知道其實國定假日相關的法規目前的主管機關是內政部是是是所以我現在指起是要內政部的立場但是郎部在這上面也不是說這全部都是內政部的事情而已不是這樣所以從郎部的角度第一個我們確實覺得是可以來通盤考慮各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2668.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2686.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
領域的工作者的狀況也包括工商情境包括政府的運作尤其從勞工部的角度當然我們會特別在意勞工的需求所以我們認為在這個議題的國定假日調整雖然法規的主管機關在內政部但我們認為在國定假日的調整上面有 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2688.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2697.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
可以正向討論的空間有正向討論的空間嗎好 我進一步跟部長交換一下意見除了國定假日以外啊對很多社群家庭而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2699.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2726.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
家中如果有需要人照顧的話放假去照顧家裡的人是一個非常重要的事情所以我們之前推了家庭照顧假家庭照顧假現在一年有幾天部長知道嗎七天七天嘛這七天是不是併入市價計算對所以有很多民間團體甚至有很多婦女的團體出來大聲疾呼認為家庭照顧假七天併入市價計算是看得到吃不到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2727.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2747.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那在整個政策的立場上面把家庭照護假我們把它列為有薪假這樣子的一個政策方向部長您贊不贊成我先跟委員說明第一個事情是其實在我上任以後其實我們把照顧不離職視為非常重要的政策的目標這個我理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2748.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2771.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那這裡面照顧不離職裡面包括顧小的部分包括顧老的部分所以我們其實也在思考相關的制度上面的調整那家庭照顧要調整是路徑之一是是路徑之一所以我們現在是在總體思考照顧不離職的這個方向上因為很多的包括很多的婦女團體性別團體也大概跟我說他們很希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2772.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2781.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
未來是透過更彈性的包括也許放假的制度留庭的制度來去緩解他們可能現在必須要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2783.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2801.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個職場跟家庭照顧必須二選一的這個狀況那我們會從整體的照顧不離之狀況提出一套做法那我們希望能夠更彈性我提一個政策的方向給部長做思考剛剛您提到婦女團體那婦女薪資基金會的董事長曾經說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2804.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2832.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
勞工一年的市價14天7天的家庭照顧價併入在裡面所以對勞工來講看得到但是用不到的家庭照顧價剛剛我所援引的是這樣子的主張所以對於台灣民眾黨而言我們把家庭照顧價把它列為是有性價這個是我們希望推動的整個立法的方向從勞動部的立場來講你們只是目前為止最起碼把它考慮成入境之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2833.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2849.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個是討論的路徑之一但是確實這裡面要考慮是財政上面的狀況因為這個所謂有薪其實可能是要政府付錢那這裡面包括現在財化法的這樣修訂的方法讓中央政府其實可以運用的財政空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2851.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2874.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
又再減小了如果按照目前的財化法假如要上路的話那會讓中央政府的財政空間又再減小所以我的意思是說這是路徑之一那財政上面當然是必須考慮的其中一點剛剛您提到有關於財政上面的問題就回到了我上次最後一次質詢的時候我請教您的事情因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2875.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2899.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
之前就業安定基金亂花的狀況整個社會都很憤怒嘛審計部一開始的調查2022年到2024年的時候有5174萬不符合用途後來在我們的要求之下他擴大調查過去這五年有7224萬遭到濫用那上一次我在質詢您的時候我說我們的立場很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2900.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2926.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所有這不到農用的錢全部都要追回來那您說這不會是空洞的承諾會有具體的作為嗎那目前為止勞動部具體的作為是什麼跟黃磊說明當然審計部的報告他其實審計部的相關的調查包括他們其實也好幾波的來函要我們說明跟確認跟釐清那我們目前都按照審計部要求的進度在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2927.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2941.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那但是這個最後的狀況該怎麼處理其實就其實政府的這個審計制度是有一套法規的那這個最後判定的權限其實是在審計部你們給審計部的回函是密件嗎不是那不是密件的話會不會可以提供這個可能我可以問一下審計部吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2950.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2969.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
對啊 因為你們如果給審計部的回函如果不是理見的話是不是請你們先說我先讓黃委員知道就是說第一個我們的回函最後審計部怎麼判定我們當然就會尊重審計部的職權我直接跟部長說明為什麼我會希望看到你們的回函因為你們的回函其實代表了勞動部的立場是 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2970.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2985.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那從勞動部的立場是錢到底要追回來還是幫過去所犯的錯誤再問過是非我覺得從你們的迴韓白紙黑字看了會最清楚我要跟黃委員說明是說最後判定該怎麼處理的我們會尊重審計部我們會尊重審計部 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2988.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3004.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那我們在我們的回覆裡面把確實我們認為有哪些部分有檢討的空間哪些部分可以做得更好我們在裡面也做出說明我為什麼會希望看到勞動部回審計部的回函道理非常的簡單就如同我剛剛說的勞動部回審計部的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3007.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3025.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
到底是每一分每一毫被浪費到而且要追回來還是幫過去所犯的錯誤再問過是非其實看迴韓是最清楚啦我這樣直接跟部長說好了齁如果這個不是密件的話那是不是請會後 請勞動部來提供應該是可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3026.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3048.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
可以嗎?好那個主席也站起來了我最後只請教一個問題因為我之前追的事情我希望都能夠有一些follow up之前我也質疑過許明春這個殺龍兆為了拍他的馬屁花納稅人的錢殺錢不手軟那個時候我有請教你說這種出自濫造的驗收報告勞動部檢討完了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3051.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3066.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那許民村的沙龍照額納稅的買單追回來了嗎那我請您去問一下許民村這個錢到底要不要吐出來那你說你會去問許部長那你問許部長以後他的答覆是什麼我還是跟這個歡迎說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3068.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3094.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
在關於勞動救安基金的使用的檢討其實這段時間我們都沒有停止包括在1月的時候我們也提出了一個勞動救安基金的但是我現在是正確的你之前對我做的承諾再進一步follow up問我相信應該是很公平我覺得這部分我們來看審計部最後的結果你那時候答覆我的時候說你會去問許民村那我現在的問題很具體你也會問許民村他的回應是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3095.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3117.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我確實現在還沒有問許明春所以你上次答應我的事情到目前為止沒有做到嗎在這個案子上我沒有去問許明春部長但我們在這個案子上面最後會怎麼處理我們會來看審計部的報告我最後只跟部長交換一個看法啦如果你當初覺得我請你去問許明春是不適當的話其實你可以直接這樣回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3118.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3135.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但是你答應了以後又沒有做到這恐怕是另外一回事我現在確實還沒有去問許明春部長所以你不是要去問許明春嗎我們是依循跟審計部審計部來來做跟對我們做的調查包括相關的審計工作我們依循這個相關的工作來進行所以我問問題其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3138.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3166.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
喜歡距離啦因為這種空泛的回答問題對事情的解決沒有幫助啊我基本上都希望用制度的方法來處理過去的問題我最後只講一句話用制度來處理我並不反對可是你知道委員會所做的承諾沒有錯那恐怕是另外一個層次的問題但我現在比較希望用制度的方式來處理問題所以你改變你的心意沒有要問許銘春了是嗎目前沒有問OK好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3168.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3172.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好謝謝接下來請陳秦威委員來做詢答主席各位委員各位官員我也想請勞動部部長來請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3189.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3200.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
部長好部長剛剛您提到要給黃國昌委員您交給審計部的這份資料我想請問可不可以也給我們未還委員會的委員可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3201.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3227.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
還有我們國民黨黨團我們也想看這個7000萬您到底要如何發揮你的魄力把它追討回來報告上面不是寫如何追討回來因為最後怎麼處理是審計部的判定那這個所謂的我們的回函主要是針對審計部提出來的這些項目那我們去釐清然後我們認為哪些部分需要檢討上面的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3227.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3243.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好那這個是我們的責任因為民眾希望可以追討回來好再來呢這個也是近期非常多人關心的議題不知道部長有沒有看到前陣子有一位三種的醫師因為聚開巴士兩表遭到家屬攻擊最終就被判刑了 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3243.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3254.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那近期醫護荒呢像這樣子的巴氏量表也常常出現在急重症的病房更是容易造成衝突那當然今年12月31號三讀通過舊輔法第46條滿80歲以上免金巴氏量表就可以聘移工的這個規定那當然我是來幫關心這件事的家庭來做一個追 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3267.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3281.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
就是追問想請教您因為你常常在媒體上會講到說需要六個月以上待配套完成才可以發布實施我想知道說最快您會需要多久最慢您會需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3283.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3301.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我跟陳委員說明因為這個其實蠻多人關心這個問題那我有看到之前好像有一些政治人物說我們在這個問題上面因為沒有馬上上路所以就說是行政怠惰那我要跟委員說明這樣的說法我認為對我們的同仁是很不公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3302.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3329.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
應該是說當在野黨在提出一讀二讀三讀的過程其實很明顯的您可以感受到在野黨對這個立場的堅持啦但是您在整個過程當中卻是不斷的提出反對反對反對而沒有具體的去想說也許你也可以開始規劃配套措施整合我們的長照的制度無異於漠視有這樣子需求的家庭繼續在受苦啊成人不是這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3330.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3357.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
總統在這個法案是1月20號然後公告那本部是在1月17號就找了衛福部開跨部會的會議來去討論這個法通過以後後續的因應那這個法後續的因應其實現在有很多的重症家庭是很擔心的因為已經陸陸續續看到一些重症家庭他們聘護移工他們移工已經有這個想要棄重則輕的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3359.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3368.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以我們現在在做的配套主要是要來怎麼確保重症家庭他們能夠找到相關照護資源的權利所以我們會設計一個雙軌的流程所以我一開始其實我就是幫這些關心這件事的人稍微問進度我只是問您最快幾時最慢幾時 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3381.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3395.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
要讓各位關心這件事情的人自己心中有一把尺他知道他大概哪一個時間內您會說我們可以開始送件我可以讓包括在立法院關心這邊的委員知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3396.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3423.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們現在在做幾件事情第一個事情是因為要去兼顧重症家庭的權益所以我們會設計一個雙軌分流來去讓重症家庭能夠更簡單的方式更容易的方式來去做相關的申請而不會他的權益受到影響這是第一個第二個因為有這個雙軌的流程所以很多地方的長照中心也好或者相關的服務單位他們需要增加人力所以我們現在也要找裁員還要招募還要訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3424.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3453.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這算起來也需要幾個月的時間還有一個重點是也需要來跟我們的移工來源國因為四個移工來源國來討論是不是能夠增加引進那移工來源國他也有他相關的訓練單位的量能這部分也要去協調所以在這些工作林林總統下還包括法規的修訂我們認為最快可能要六個月而這六個月其實真的已經是壓縮了已經是高度的壓縮最慢呢我們就是希望六個月可以我們希望六個月可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3454.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3472.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
謝謝謝謝那我們也希望可以在7月底之前上路因為這個我們研究了一下相關的執法的盤點修改我相信比較其他修法其實並沒有調整的非常多所以我也希望部長可以落實這個法案的精神積極的去做好嗎對但我還是要幫我們同仁說話我們絕對沒有在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3476.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3505.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
行政怠惰或者相關的杯葛這個勢力法案三讀通過的法律我們當然會執行只是我們要把配套做好因為如果配套沒有做好可能會引起更多這個聘僱市場失序的狀況這是我們不樂見的情況會影響到很多人的權益您之前有提出一個數據您說預估可能會增加多少份的送件這是您預估出來的目前是會53萬人取得資格但 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3505.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3527.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們自己有推估了一下 覺得可能會有可能將近10萬人左右會快速的增加我也希望可以跟您要到一份您是怎麼統計出這樣子的數據的 您是有去做民調嗎還是您是有去找一個量本數用過去的資料推估那我可以一周內請您提供這一份資料嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3531.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3547.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好謝謝那再來呢想要跟您討論一下最近我們的委員針對預算到底經過審議每個科別積木別科子木還剩下多少預算如何的核實分配預算數接下來要請行政院還有部本部調控那我有發公文到勞動部勞動部公文還沒有回來但是已經電話回覆說還在調整分配中請問這件事正確嗎您還在調整分配中還在部本部內調控 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3562.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3582.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
是是啊 正確對那我想請問為什麼您可以在上節目的時候大談今年的育兒津貼被凍結被刪除我想問你是從本部的哪一個預算出的被凍結多少是哪一個科子目因為是您上的節目您講的話所以我們就請部長來回答是 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3583.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3609.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
謝謝有人給我這個機會說明我確實前兩天在這個媒體上面那我後來看我們是有這個我這邊也是有口誤的部分你是說錯還是口誤你是說錯還是口誤那為什麼您會覺得有這樣子的口誤呢你是從哪邊推我先說明主要被刪減跟凍結的部分是在用來做產檢價跟賠產檢價的薪資補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3613.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3627.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以產檢價跟賠產檢價的薪資補助還是被刪跟凍還是會影響這些新手爸媽相關的權益這部分是在我們的勞動條件及就業平等業務的這個部分又有凍結也有刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3629.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3647.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那這當然是影響新手幫忙的權益但我確實口誤講成是育嬰留庭相關的薪資補助因為可能最近開的育嬰留庭的會議開的太多了所以有這個口誤但實際上面是產檢價跟陪產檢價的薪資補助那請您在這邊跟大家澄清說沒有影響到育嬰留庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3648.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3652.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這邊也是你們勞動部自己的新聞稿六成是從就業保險基金支出就業保險基金我們根本還沒有處理到我們晚一點才會處理嗎那你也知道為什麼我們基金這麼晚才會處理也是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3669.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3683.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
上個會期有重大的這個救安基金的爭議才會延遲因為當時我們都在檢討為什麼救安基金會有如此大的弊案剩下兩成就是由勞動部來支出那勞動部呢我們是編列在哪一個預算我們是編列在勞動保險司的預算裡面的這個講輔助費裡面所以我們回去翻 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3690.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3707.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所有的刪減報告等等就是沒有講補助案的刪減所以我也希望您跟未來您的同事們出去也不要再這樣子講了好嗎所以我剛才說明我在這部分是有口誤但是主要刪跟凍我們來講凍結我們來講凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3713.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3734.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為這個是我之前翻出來的其實您在當立法委員的時候也有提出非常非常多的預算案那我們來看113年3月的時候其實那個時候送了21件的解凍案進來有20件很快就已經解凍了而且我看劉建國委員 昭偉今天其實也排了非常多的解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3734.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3758.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
其實如果今天沒有這個復疫的大戰我們早就已經把解凍報告送進來了假設這些不是假設我已經看完了大概就是5%到10%的預算你們前半年就可以解凍了你現在根本不需要講這些不屬實的話我是希望部長一分錢做一分事你知道你今年的預算是已經比去年多了58億58億 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3762.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3783.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那個跟陳委員說明我想我也做過立法委員在預算的審議上面很重要的是必須看科目尤其是科目又不能留用所以其實在我剛才說的產檢跟賠產檢價上面三根三根洞幾乎是整筆項目的三成 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3783.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3800.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們希望啦如果你們可以好好的把這些解凍案送進來並且做好報告的話我們所有的委員我們所有的委員都會關注全民關注的事情好嗎那最後我時間不太多所以我要問一下我最近對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3803.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3830.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
主席我問最後一個問題因為這是護理師比較關心的昨天我有參加一個依依人力銀行這個護理方的問題這最後一個問題很快這個護理師您在從立委轉任到部長前您也有為護理師發言還拍了一些短片啊等等的那當然他們現在有提到說希望可以開放資深的移工還有僑外生擔任中階的護佐並且提高薪資門檻到三萬四千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3832.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3837.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好 那我想知道說您跟衛福部開會做的規劃是如何了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3838.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3866.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
是針對中介戶左嗎對 因為你們要從橋外申來這個案子主要是衛福部來跟勞動部申請的案子我們有兩點我們第一個我們在看的事情是關於這個薪資門檻的部分那第二個事情是當然我們也會很在意的事情是因為這個案子如果他的原意是希望讓戶左跟這個護理師有一個更好的分工讓護理師可以更專心的去做他們專業的工作那所以我們也會希望衛福部要確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3868.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3892.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
在戶左跟護理師的分工的界面上面能夠更清楚能夠讓分工有效或專業我覺得這部分很重要所以你們現在的標準跟訓練內容其實是還沒有明確的嗎當然相關的訓練的內容這部分是衛福部他們這邊來提出可是我們是作為跟衛福部一起討論這事情的單位的話對我們來說我剛才講的部分是重要的配套這個配套要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3893.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3911.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
好 那我已經初步幫您統計起來了目前橋外生在這裡學習護理科系的總共是187名那我具體的跟您建議如果這187名學生您可以去調查他的意向是不是有願意留在台灣或者是他更傾向回到母國 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3912.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3937.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我覺得你有做出這樣子的統計我們再來後續的落實因為台灣目前自己衛福部預估護理需要到2030年這個缺口啊高達5.5到7.4萬的護理人力所以我想這個187名的意願雖然他們是在這個缺口裡面占少數可是他們的意願對於您後來跟衛福部的這個合作非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3937.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3960.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
跟柯文說明當然護理的人力整體這部分還是要看衛福部他們怎麼樣來做護理人力的整體的規劃那我們主要是在於是說這些相關的管制工作上面最後要做什麼樣子的管制規劃當然我們也不太希望說您可能開了這樣子的這個缺結果最後申請的人非常的少調查他們這187個人的意願也是蠻重要的總體的評估我們來跟衛福部討論謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3967.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3971.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長接下來請林月琴委員來做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3988.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3996.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好 我們麻煩我們的勞動部長還有我們的發展勞動力發展署的陳世昌署長部長還有代理署長請部長還有代理署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4007.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4014.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
臺灣的詐欺犯罪問題非常嚴重包括91萬名的在臺移工也成為詐騙者眼中的肥羊 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4024.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4048.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
團體調查我們的保守推估那移工被詐騙的金額至少新台幣17億那受詐騙的移工當中從事製造跟工程的大概受騙的金額大概13145元那看護的呢移工大概是5596元所以平均下來大概8000元所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4052.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4064.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
整個為了防堵詐騙行政院自111年6月開始實施新世代的打詐的一個執行策略行動綱領那大概的確112年我們晉升到1.5版 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4068.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4074.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
113年7月3度通過打詐新司法113年的11月28日通過了打詐綱領的2.0版所以在期間勞動部也發新聞稿說一工一戰士的服務響應打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4086.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4114.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那要避免移工誤信詐騙集團要防堵買工費的詐騙可是呢我們看到一站式的服務對象基本上事實上是新聘外籍家庭看護工和家庭幫傭而防詐不是這項服務的重點所以這樣子在講的話以一站式的服務宣傳防詐根本就會是不是牛頭不對馬嘴所以請問一下勞動部究竟有什麼樣的防詐的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4117.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4135.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
跟委員報告在整個行政院的這個打詐的一個相關的一個權責分工上勞動部有他要處理的就是有關識別詐騙的一個資訊的這樣子的一個工作所以在針對移工朋友他在如何能夠提高他對於這些詐騙資訊的敏感度這個是我們要做的一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4135.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4154.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那目前我們除了剛剛委員所提到的針對一站式的家庭移工的部分我們有做這樣子的一個宣導工作之外我們也透過LineNet跟1955等相關的可以直接對得上移工朋友的一個資訊聯繫的一個管道我們來做這個推波提醒他什麼樣情況下包括買工費是不應該的不管是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4155.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4181.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
他期滿或者是續聘等等都不會有買工費的這樣子的額外付出的需求我們過去這一段時間推播了94次透過Line Ad直接跟個別的移工朋友做這樣的訊息的傳遞那這個部分我們會持續來精進來辦理所以要講清楚說明白否則的話人家會誤會說那只有這樣子的可是這個基本上概念上又不相同那現今台灣移工總人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4182.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4205.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
大概在91萬那其中行方不明的大概事實上是9萬所以將近1%那社福類的移工事實上需求是跟供給裡面大概事實上是大缺工的狀態可是製造業平均每月找工作的移工人數大概是2183人可是真正工作需求只有805人所以在這種狀況裡面 聘僱期間轉換 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4208.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4221.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
雇主的合法工作非常難找那再加上九萬名隨時要找的工作的刑方不明的移工非法移工也有大量的非法工作的一些需求這邊就會呈現一個買工 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4224.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4240.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那個詐騙能夠橫行的非法市場所以想問部長你過去相當注重甚至也非常關注移工的一個保護議題你上任後對於這樣子的社會情境有什麼推動改變的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4242.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4269.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
跟委員說明當然我們不希望看到這種賣公費的狀況所以我在當委員的時候很在意所以包括我們現在也希望透過更多的方式來協助這個比方說移工假如他要轉換雇主的話然後怎麼樣子能夠更順暢然後減少中間買公費的狀況這都是我們其實現在在做的所以我們其實現在也有部分的就會負責針對轉換雇主的做法其實做了一些精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4274.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4295.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
可是還是發生了嘛那桃園市政府就業執訓服務處裡邊將移工轉換雇主業務外包所以得標廠商呢聘僱了一個越南籍的女性那L小姐呢擔任該中心的雙語諮詢服務的時候協助移工線上求職登記可是這個L小姐 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4296.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4314.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
竟然涉嫌向移工收取買工費那前後收取4次不法所得22萬那最後當然是被以詐欺罪起訴所以想問像這樣的一個案子在去年3月到8月間發生那桃園地檢署12月也起訴勞動部知情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4318.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4346.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
跟委員報告這個部分我們有掌握到這個資訊那陳儒委員剛所講的他是一個桃園市政府委外的一個廠商的一個所屬員工但是因為基本上是由我們政府委外所以我們這邊政府責任還是無法迴避所以在整個案子發生之後呢第一個當事人當然就除了解雇之外我們也移送司法單位去做這個部分的一個追查責任的一個追查同時我們也把他過去曾經經手過的其他申請案件有沒有類似的一個情形我們也做了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4347.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4372.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
清查避免說有其他人是我們沒有察覺到的那同時我們也檢討整個就業中心他的一個服務的一個流程包括那個環境硬體環境我們都加強這個各國語言的一個揭示在這邊接受的服務是免費的那去透過這個SOP的檢討跟這個環境的一個友善化跟這個多元資訊的提供的方式希望能夠杜絕以後這種事情再次發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4372.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4402.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
不過也是經過這個案子我們知道買工費的一個詐騙可能觸犯刑法是犯罪行為面對這種犯罪行為的話勞動部不能夠用行政處罰去輕輕的放過所以應該主動移送檢察官部長你同意這樣子的做法嗎我覺得該遵守相關的法規這個我想沒有什麼迴避的空間希望你們也是比照因為我們現在看到勞動部自己查核的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4402.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4420.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
並沒有減送那我覺得這可能要注意所以百密有一疏桃園市政府委外廠商人員涉嫌到向轉換登記移工的收取買工費被害人竟然在NGO團體提醒之後才 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4422.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4435.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
發現自己原來是受騙可是我們的發展署委外標案也很多的時候去年這些服務案件佔總量的8.4%經費佔51.17%所以今年到3月為止佔10%經費佔19.28%所以本席認為勞動部對這些委外廠商平日是不是有強加管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4446.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4452.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
特別是在對於懲辦人員的連結的要求請問管理機制是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4455.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4482.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
跟委員報告我們在跟廠商做這樣一個勞務委外的一個過程當中對於他的品質管理除了由廠商指代督導人員來做管理之外我們在整個發案署本身包括我們在事務中心跟我們的公立救福機構也要有我們自己的這個公務人員來做這個部分的一個把關所以他們有沒有照這個程序來走以及每一個案件到時候他的在資訊系統上面登錄是不是一致的這個部分我們都會來做一個品質上的一個確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4483.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4504.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
希望真的能夠保障到我們的移工的權益所以勞動部的統計2023年查劑並裁罰的案件大概有10件成功率大概三分之一而已2023年是13件今年至今只有一件所以想問是這應該是勞動部比較被動的等待檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4505.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4515.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
如果看這樣子結果的話那被動效果就是不好所以請問勞動部有徵求移工服務團體就業服務工會合作來鼓勵通報的規劃嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4517.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4536.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
跟委員報告我們現在主要除了被動受理檢舉在其實我們主動的去查查的部分有針對如果過去曾經他在服務的過程當中或者這個在服務的過程當中有出現被申訴或者是被檢舉的這種我們把它列為高風險名單去加強去要求包括也透過評鑑的等地 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4538.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4551.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
如果他評鑑的等立狀況比較差的這邊我們在做查核跟關懷的那個頻率會拉高希望透過這樣的方式來主動去去嚇阻這樣子的可能性那對另外對於移工跟有指導移工個人蒐證協助移工檢舉的機制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4556.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4579.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們目前在1955的部分本來就可以接受這個同意的相關的一個協助所以他如果在提出這樣的申訴的時候我們其實有人員可以幫助他做這個處理另外他如果在進行這個司法或者是調查的一個程序的部分同樣也可以透過我們的這樣一個服務來做連結我覺得要讓他們了解他們才有辦法來進一步的去做申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4580.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4594.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以我覺得這也是你們應該要做的所以最後大家期待就是我覺得買工費的詐騙觸犯刑法所以查獲應該要移送減掉還有建立委外案件的時候金主人員應該連結的管理機制要建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4595.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4620.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
查緝不法跟要公司協力合作通報這個要做移工的修正這個可能還是要教導他們畢竟來到我們這個國家那他如果受到一些傷害的時候可能有一些怎麼去做所以那個檢舉的指導要做所以請勞動部兩週內把具體規劃的書面資料給我這邊不知道部長這邊OK嗎應該是可以的好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4624.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4650.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好謝謝接下來請廖偉祥委員來做詢問好謝謝主席邀請我們部長來請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4658.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4676.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
紅部長你好根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報台灣勞工平均年工時是2030個小時對不對那為全球主要國家中的第五高那亞洲主要國家中的第二高那僅次於新加坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4677.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4692.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
對照OECD國家的平均工時是1713個小時台灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月然而當我們立法院有許多委員提案要恢復7天假的時候勞動部的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4693.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4710.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
李建宏卻說很多勞工希望多加班賺錢部長我想要先請教你這個次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎也是勞動部的立場嗎那個跟文說明我其實有看了次長前兩天這段整段完整的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4711.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4730.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
他的發言主要他在表達的事情是第一個工時的問題當然有檢討改善的空間第二個是確實有部分的勞工他可能因為他的薪資比較低那所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入所以重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4734.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4743.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況我們是希望減少這種狀況那針對勞動部2024年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4756.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4776.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
勞工近一年有加班者佔36.6%平均每月加班14.7個小時那其中有領到加班費的或換取補休者佔85%左右所以換句話說有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7個小時領不到加班費是在做功德 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4777.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4797.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
部長然後勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因就是因為薪資低嘛剛剛你在講我們也是我們都知道嘛對不對所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷不是這樣嗎那為何所以為何加班這件事情好像是從次長的這個講法會讓大眾覺得說好像是給勞工的恩惠不是所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4798.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4818.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以事實上我想要講的是事實上的意思也不是這樣子事實上我想要講的意思是說包含過去我們的賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說台灣那時候他說台灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點因此這次修法當時是在說一例一休是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4820.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4845.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
但事實上我們都知道這個講法很類似所以我們說這個立場讓我們覺得說勞工明明就是想要的是加薪不是加班那我們修法也是要希望可以降低工時但是從不管是現在的賴總統當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德多加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4846.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4872.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以我想這些數據不是這個意思所以我想這些數據我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情不是吵我要跟你一一的不是這個意思我要跟你一一帶這個數據喔所以部長我想要說你次長的演繹是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪你可以把他整句話可以看完我現在沒有叫你責怪他我跟你講我現在在跟你討論這個事實我們不是來吵架的不是這個意思部長我一個一個講啊我要講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛對不對所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4876.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4898.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我相信部長也知道當立法院推動這七天假讓人民有很多時間希望可以有多的時間可以休息那就是希望多加班賺錢這種我覺得這個是比較不負責任的說法但是我們要說從制度公實來看台灣不僅國定假日少於日韓那15年年資的這個特休假也少於日韓所以當然這使得我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4899.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4921.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
年資勞工的制度工時是遠較於日韓的勞工比較高所以現在即便加上如果到時候修法然後即便加上還勞工7天假這個台灣的制度工時跟日韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間那另外從這個角度來看從薪資跟工時的角度台灣勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4922.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4946.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
因為眾所周知我們新加坡的薪資結構是比我們高很多但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多所以相對來講我想要講出來就是說從之前這樣子的發言我要點出來是說重點還是薪資嘛你剛也在講嘛對不對重點還是薪資嘛所以當然薪水比不上其他國有很多相關的背景因素啦但如果加薪做不到我想至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4947.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4953.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我現在要討論的就是至少這個工時的部分我們要努力來讓他減少吧對不對既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4954.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4981.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我想七天假已經被砍了八年我是在想是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢那內政部長劉世芳還說七天假不是一個真正的議題不宜倉促立法但是我就想要問那身為勞動部長和紅部長你的立場是什麼那政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢所以現在我們也至少要解決他的工時過長的問題所以勞動不存在理由我想不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4982.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5001.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以針對這個七天假的議題就是想要問我們部長是不是應該要去做跟委員說明兩個部分第一個部分勞工部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資所以我們推動最低工資上漲第二個我們現在推動薪資透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5001.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5028.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
都是希望在提高薪資上面多做一點助力這是第一個第二件事情關於國定假日的調整的問題我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面是可以合理的來做有討論的空間的好部長我就要進一步指來我們進一步講高工時導致我們勞工的健康的問題也是一個很重要的問題引發過勞死那根據2024年台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5029.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5054.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們台北醫學大學的研究工時每增加10個小時罹患心血管的疾病風險提高12%那台灣每一年過勞相關的疾病死亡者大概是500人超過500人所以一樣高工時是從前面整個論述到現在我覺得好像我們部包含這些發言包含之前的行政院長賴清德的發言到現在我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5055.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5077.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們政府應該要更有積極有態度的作為不是讓人家感覺不是讓百姓感覺是在冷漠或是漠視或甚至是逆勢而行所以我是很希望說部長你們是不是你應該要更明確的表態更明確的表態說你支持這個齊田價而不是去說我手裡跑的因為你站在 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5078.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5098.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
因為現在在討論國定假日現在法規的主管機關是內政部但這段時間勞動部也持續的參與這些相關的討論那所以從勞動部的角度來說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題我覺得我們有正向討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5100.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5111.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
部長所以我想要講你不能一直說討論空間我想要問你的事情是所以勞工要的是加薪不是加班那短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標那是不是勞動部還是要站在你勞工的立場要表態說我支持還勞工7天假因為當時去年你的在勞動節的時候遊行部長有說替工會當時你說要替工會轉達還民7天假的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5125.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5140.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那你現在從轉達者變成被轉達者你是不是應該要承諾願意站在當年紅委員或是現在紅部長跟勞動勞工的立場積極的更積極的去跟我們內政部長溝通然後甚至直接說你支持應該要還 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5142.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5159.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我們持續的跟相關的部會包括內政部在交換意見包括也轉達可能勞工各種的期待這事情我們這段時間都在做所以我才說但確實現在法規的主管部會是在內政部但是就勞動部的角度跟勞動部的立場來說我們認為這個議題是有正向討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5164.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5186.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我希望部長你還是要找回你當初的這個找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷嚴正的甚至是為我們勞工發聲說這七天假一定要還回來另外有關於一個4至807號同工不同酬的問題和工會法相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5189.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5198.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
性別的薪資的差距根據我們主基處在2022年的統計台灣的女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%換句話說他就是打85折 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5202.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5223.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
也就是說每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資那每年的同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況嘛對不對那釋字807號的時候解釋認定勞基法的第49條第一項限制了女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇違反憲法保障的性別平等一旨而且該條文說 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5225.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5236.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
解釋公布之日就開始失效了那勞動部除了目前除了發布函式以外好像沒有積極推動修法真正落實我們性別平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5237.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5264.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
而且根據2018年的女人民的調查27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境所以想要請問一下勞動部有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或是去改善同工不同酬的問題還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件認定違法的比例是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5266.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5288.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
公共委員報告有關那個同工不同仇的這部分的話在性別平等工作法裡面就有規定不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇那有這樣的這樣申訴的話那這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬那這種情況那至於說我們現在也在努力的推動包括我們有一個事業單位自行檢視的這個同工同仇的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5288.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5315.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那請問有沒有處理了過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件那認定違法的比例是多少在我們在目前來說的話在那個今年起包括我們的勞檢的部分他在法尊的勞檢出去的時候就會把這個同工同仇的這個檢核表帶到事業單位請事業單位先來做檢視我們希望從這個部分來先做一個推動那第二個的話所以還沒有具體的數字沒有具體的統計違法的部分我們會後再來做不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5316.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5334.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那我想要講這個就是說應該要有這樣的統計數字讓我們明確的去推動讓我們希望我們每一年的這個同仇日可以往前再縮短一些好不好謝謝委員好OK那我今天質詢到這裡謝謝好謝謝六委謝謝部長接下來請邱正軍委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5346.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5363.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
謝謝主席我們一樣有請洪部長來 請洪部長部長好謝謝委員上任三個月嘛感覺有點瘦了從立法委員到部長角色完全轉換了嗎必須轉換 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5367.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5389.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我想請問一下你還是立法委員的時候在審查預算的時候會有什麼樣的理由你會提出凍結或刪除部會預算的要求可能會督促部會去做一件事情所以我們現在你現在上任之後有我們委員們提的這些刪除或凍結你認為是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5392.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5419.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是找麻煩還是督促確實在尤其是我們看到一些筒動的一些筒動的案子裡面其實不太容易在這個筒動的案子裡面看到他是要督促我們去做某哪一件事情因為以前我們寫這個凍結的案子他會讓你去做一件事情然後這件事情做到所以你也認為凍結預算是一種督促部會的一個手段嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5420.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5442.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
但是要看 要看洞結的事由你剛剛講捧動的先不講啦但是認為說 預算服邊刪除是立法委員的職責嗎我說預算啦服邊 服邊齁那刪除這個服邊的預算是立法委員的職責嗎第一個我們 我們並不覺得預算有服邊啊我問你 我不是說你這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5444.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5465.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以立委刪除預算是立委的職責嗎立委監督預算當然是立委的職責對嘛好這樣就好那我再請問一下你上一個通告的節目費用多少錢我現在應該是沒有你上次前兩天不是有去嗎那個沒有錢沒有錢沒有錢你就把你自己賣了就把你的靈魂賣掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5467.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5473.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
你把你你你不覺得我們那天在公然造謠嗎然後還很自然看一下那個你看我覺得一派輕鬆嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5475.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5497.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
你是不是有說過育嬰留職停薪補貼是因為被凍結被刪除所以發不出來那個我剛有跟前面的委員說明了我那天確實有口誤主要被凍結跟刪除的是產檢價跟賠產檢價的薪資補貼那我確實那天講成是育嬰留職停薪的補貼這是我的口誤所以你現在跟大家解釋了嗎剛剛也再講一次但是產檢價跟賠產檢價 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5501.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5526.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
但產檢價跟賠產檢價的相關的補貼被凍結跟刪除一樣會造成新手爸媽權益上面的衝擊跟受損好那我問你啊那育嬰留庭期間我們政府給申請人投保薪資的八成這經費從哪裡來六成是救保那兩成是公務預算六成是在基金嘛對不對對是救保基金兩成呢公務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5528.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5545.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
兩層是公務預算那我跟你講跟育嬰留庭的相關凍結的有五個案子都是我們民進黨委員所提的案子跟連署我認為這些委員都非常認真你有看到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5548.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5568.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你覺得咧 你覺得他們這樣做對不對卓榮我跟您說了 因為我在節目上面其實我要說的是產檢架跟配產檢相關的這個津貼的補貼我其實要講的這部分所以你們 你也認為他們做的是對的嗎哪一個部分就是他現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5570.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5586.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
供預算的部分跟育嬰留庭相關凍結的有五個案子我跟各位說明其實本來國會就有監督預算的權力跟權限這部分我們都尊重所以也有很多我們看到的凍結案他是督促行政部門去把一件事情做得更好但 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5587.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5609.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
現在我們在很多這個公務預算的桶洞 桶山裡面我們看了這個相關的提案書看不清楚也不知道它是我們要去做哪一件事情對哪一件經濟的工作剛才你已經講了不要講那個因為我們時間沒有很多所以我問你這是我們困擾的地方我們已經知道了嘛你可以提出來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5610.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5620.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你如果有這個自在難行你認為哪個部分不行我們在野黨都是開放的你們到現在是沒有提出來只是在那外面在那邊亂喊 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5623.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5644.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們到現在沒有接到你們任何一個申請說因為你有這個統三這部分你們有自在難行的部分對於民眾的衝擊我認為是確實的你們會不會應該要把你們自己的困難拿出來我們也講了很多遍了到現在沒有看到資料啊所以不要再講這個好不好那我再問你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5646.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5662.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個勞務部今年預算多少錢預算增加多少錢今年應該是五十幾億吧五十八億嘛對不對那什麼理由增加五十八億還要說錢發不出來就是我剛剛講的你可以提出來我也很好奇啊對不對為什麼錢多了你們沒辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5666.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5684.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我們都做過立法院還是要說關於預算增加這件事情或者預算審議重點還是要看科目尤其是很多科目是不能夠留用的那我們增加的五十幾億主要增加的關於法定義務的支出所以法定義務支出不能夠留用到被刪減跟凍結的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5690.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5709.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個我們上禮拜其實我們之前行政院已經提出復議了可是復議被否決了但是我們有說啊你如果不行做我們可以追加預算不是嗎所以我們為什麼就是希望透過復議的方式可以為什麼要透過復議咧因為復議就是一個讓大家可以重新考慮的方式我們可以針對個案嘛不行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5710.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5737.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以我們之前就是針對用復議的方式來提出希望立法院可以重新考慮大家可以重新討論你現在到底要不要提出你自愛難行的部分我們當然有自愛難行的部分要不要提出來嘛如果需要的話各種方式我們都會考慮什麼時候可以提出來我們各種方式都會考慮我只是問你什麼時候不是說如果需要的話我們各種方式都會考慮包括各種現在以核限的方式的進行維護民眾的權益我們都會考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5737.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5759.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你直接提就好啦 不用那麼麻煩啦 對不對?這樣違憲嗎?所以你提出自然難行是違憲嗎?現在我們遇到最大的麻煩 剛剛委員講到麻煩我們覺得現在最大的麻煩是民眾的權益因為這樣子的預算的刪減跟凍結受損這是我們現在覺得最麻煩的事情那你就提出來嘛 對不對?各種的做法我們都會考慮 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5760.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5774.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以你要不要提像我們這個委員會這邊來提出來我說那個邱委員我們各種核限的做法在核限的做法下我們都會考慮所以在委員會提算核限嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5775.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5804.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這當然是相關做法之一嘛對 可是我們也不排除其他的可能的做法所以你們就是要你們就是要搗亂嘛我平常想你們不是要做事情不是要解決問題啊對不對我們現在開了一個門給你們走你們偏偏不走我們就是希望能夠把預算執行的好照顧民眾的權益這是我們最希望做的事情所以我們才之前開速力的爭取希望能夠你們也跟著這一台私塑電車一直跑一直衝不會轉彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5809.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5831.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我們是希望讓市政能夠順利那最近內政委員會在審查國定假日你有告訴劉世芳說你支持還勞工7天假嗎我跟委員說明現在國定假日的法規主管是在內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5833.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5861.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
當然這裡面牽涉到一些勞工放假的議題所以我們覺得在國家的討論國家的調整的這個議題上面從勞動部的立場我們覺得有正向討論的空間你當初還沒當公職人員的時候你主張七天假不應該和週休二日這個掛鍋在一起嘛對這是當時你的主張那後來你跟林靜怡一起提我們紀念日跟節日實施條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5861.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5888.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
就是要加放六天的紀念假日你不能跟顧立雄一樣華麗轉身之後就把當初的話都推翻啊對不對 所以我現在就是希望看到你的態度 你的態度是怎麼樣我跟委員說明我們剛才其實說針對國定假日調整的問題我們覺得從勞動部角度在一致性跟公平性的原則下面理性討論我們覺得有正向討論的空間所以你贊成嗎 七天假 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5891.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5892.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我剛才已經說過你會照你的初衷來走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5898.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5926.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我想照顧勞工的精神其實當然都是不會變的對在這個議題上面他的法規的主管部會是內政部那我們會願意來協助勞工相關的新生跟期待來你可以表明你的態度嗎我剛才已經說了我們認為在這個議題上面在國定假日調整的議題上面你是站在勞工這邊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5927.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5943.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們認為有正向討論的空間你會不會站在勞工這邊我們當然都是站在勞工這邊我就要你一句話好謝謝好謝謝邱委員謝謝部長接下來請圖權級委員來做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5956.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5963.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好 謝謝主席先請我們調評師 市長還有我們勞保局局長市長還有局長好 市長 局長 我想請問一下我們育嬰留職挺薪的補貼在110年7月以前全部是由救保基金來支應嘛 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5986.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6005.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個部分的話是20%的部分之前的話是六成的部分都是救保基金後來在110年7月之後因為我們政府有加發20%所以加發20%的部分也是有就是由我們政府的公務預算來支應這沒有問題吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6007.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6018.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好那當然這也是我們政府的德政也替我們新手父母來感謝那接下來我想請問一下我們勞保師我們勞保師師長那師長我請問一下我們在114年度的總預算我們勞動保險業務被刪減凍結多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6038.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6044.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
勞動保險大的勞動保險業務是動60萬對就是在這個在這個大的勞動保險業務在委員會凍結60萬嘛我們委員會凍結60萬另外就是我的零一分支動10億 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6054.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6059.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
有一個動10億是我們民眾黨黨團針對勞工保險財務及就業保險業務1200億裡面凍結10億所以整體來講我們針對這裡面的受雇勞工育嬰留職停薪津貼加補補助經費在這個科目是並沒有凍結或者刪除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6079.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6084.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
對不對 只有剛剛的相互有 其他都沒有嘛是是好 那不好意思來請一下我們洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6090.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6107.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
黃部長那其實剛剛我有聽到我們兩位委員陳欽委員跟邱振興委員都有提到關於我們部長有在新聞方面接受我們周玉蔻我們這個媒體人的訪問好像有針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6110.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6130.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
受雇勞工育嬰留庭津貼的部分剛剛部長也有承認是因為說錯口誤對嘛就是針對有動山的部分動山是產檢家跟陪產檢家對所以就是這部分是搞錯了口誤嘛剛剛我有聽到是口誤那我想請問一下部長你是什麼時候知道自己在這部分是說錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6133.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6148.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
因為我真的最近開了太多暈流亭的相關的會議所以當時在訪問的時候可能下意識的講成暈流亭那是我們委員剛剛詢問的時候你才知道接受週一寇訪問的時候說錯還是後來就知道了後來就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6148.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6168.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那後來知道怎麼沒有趕快立即澄清讓這個謠言在網路上一直發酵呢因為他還是 當然今天很謝謝委員給我這個機會我們可以在這裡跟說明澄清當時被動刪的主要是產檢價跟配產檢價所以他一樣還是會影響到新手爸媽相關的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6169.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6187.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
對 但是我們希望大家比較重視的針對受僱勞工育嬰留庭的部分居然部長都節目受訪結束之後就知道這個是錯的我覺得因為部長是我們勞動部單位最高的主管機關因為你所說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6188.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6214.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
大家都信以為真而且非常重視那如果連我們最高主管單位主管說的話那居然有錯應該就要馬上更正結果居然讓這幾天在網路謠言一直在發酵那所以造成我們民眾之間大家很多的恐慌啊所以謝謝今天委會給我這個機會我在這邊就是把它澄清清楚我那天是有口誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6215.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6236.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
對 部長我也希望這個事情如果當然我們人都有可能犯錯我們都有可能說錯話但是知道錯應該盡快要澄清不然大家都會誤以為部長跟我們週一扣這個名嘴好像刻意在節目上散播不時的謠言然後讓這個謠言一直在民間在網路上散播 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6236.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6254.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
不是這樣子我那天主要是討論的事情是說這個預算的煽動會對於我們很多的尤其是生產有生育的家庭產生的衝擊跟影響那我希望那既然部長今天針對收穫勞工預預停留的部分確定我們都是沒有動沒有煽的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6256.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6281.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
因為說我當時在說的部分主要是針對應該是要針對是我心中在想的是產檢家跟陪產檢家好沒關係啊那就是說針對這部分是沒有動三的我們就事實來澄清只是希望以後當然如果真的說錯我們希望在第一時間趕快澄清不應該我們最高主管單位的主管說出的話沒有澄清之後讓這些謠言一直在網路散播 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6282.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6288.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
好那接下來不好意思部長我們請問一下先請我的調評師黃師長請問一下今年我們產檢價跟賠產檢價還是還有我們賠產價薪資補助在動山的部分是民眾黨團刪除了800萬嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6308.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6314.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
報告委員是刪除800萬另外還有一些凍結對 刪除的部分是800萬嘛是那他針對這刪除800萬的部分他是在整個勞動條件及就業平等下還是針對我們產檢價 賠產價 賠產檢的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6331.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6354.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
報告是在整個勞動條件及就業平等的向下但是因為撇開那個所謂的補助款的部分來說那勞動條件及就業平等的實際上我們在推動的一般的這個業務部分的預算也只有844萬那如果把這個800萬的三減全部放到業務費的那一塊的話那大概是全年都不能動 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6355.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6358.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以我剛剛會先講說產檢價還有賠產檢、賠產價這部分其實我們整個項目3.8百萬民眾黨針對這部分是針對整個勞動條件及就業平等的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6373.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6397.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
並不是單就針對產檢價賠產檢跟賠產價這部分對不對你可以從你的這張圖上面可以很清楚的看到我要補充兩點第一點是就像我說的刪除了八百萬但同時也凍結了將近兩千萬然後在這張圖上面你可以看到其實在產檢價跟賠產檢價的補助的那個項目裡面幾乎佔了這一整大項的九成 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6398.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6415.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以三八百萬跟動兩千萬是一定會影響到產檢價跟配產檢價的這個補貼的發放的這是一定會影響的好所以我們現在就是你可以看你們其實數字是很清楚的因為我大象的就是我們先理清一下啦就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6418.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6435.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
刪除這800萬他是針對整個勞動條件及就業平等這個業務的大象並不是單就針對產檢價 賠產檢價跟賠產價沒有錯但這個獎補助站裡面佔了非常非常大的比例你可以看到我的意思說不是針對性嘛那只是說這個整個項目的800萬是由我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6440.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6466.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
勞動部這邊去做調整但是並不是要針對我們這個產檢價的部分去做刪除對不對但是在這個大項上面如果要刪800還要動2000這個是一定會影響到產檢價、賠產檢價這個項目的在數字上面是很清楚的好那我們我們整個勞動條件及就業平等業務其實它這個項目齁大概是總經費大概是1億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6467.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6496.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
大概九千七百多萬九千七百多就大概一億嘛那所以基本上我們並不是針對新手父母這個產檢價的部分那當然部長剛剛講的我們也了解但是我們今天要講的就是說我們這一億裡面刪除的八百萬並不是針對我們這一部分而是由勞動部裡面自己去做調整所以部長你的意思是說這九千七百多萬裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6497.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6511.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這刪除了800萬你是針對這一部分來做刪除是嗎這個跟委員說明刪除了800萬動了2000萬三家動其實占這一整項將近要三成 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6512.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6540.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那剛剛可以看到產檢加賠產檢加相關的補助其實佔了這一整項的九成所以這三根洞是影響一定會影響到產檢加跟賠產檢加的在數字上面其實我們就可以看出來了對沒關係所以重點在勞動條件集就會評等裡面這九千七百多萬刪了八百萬但是這八百萬是勞動兩千啊然後但是凍結的部分是因為希望你們提出計畫加以改善就解凍了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6540.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6558.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
但是山跟洞這個洞的比例很高山加洞加起來相信三成對 但是洞是可以解洞的只是說希望我們針對沒有做好的地方去做加以改善好 那沒關係那一個重點我們之前針對我們產檢價薪資 賠產價這個薪資補助我們在112年的時候也發生過預算不足那請問師長那時候預算不足我們是怎麼來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6570.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6596.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
報告委員當初那一年的話因為主計總署的估算跟我們的估算他的數字上面編的比較少所以當年的話金額不足金額不足的話到了發現錢會不夠的時候那我們只好先向主計總署去爭取看二倍金能不能有但是那時候回覆是說沒有錢那我們就自己那想像一下好沒關係我講比較快啦直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6596.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6620.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
是不是後來我們直接跟救保基金短期周轉那個部分的話是確實有跟救保基金當時做一個短期周轉但是要付利息對 所以我們有看過這個公文就是說如果這部分真的沒有或者不夠的時候是可以由救保基金來周轉而且這部分也曾經過有這個案例嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6621.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6650.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我想要跟你說過去有這個案例但是其實那時候立法院的預算中心也針對當時的案例要求勞動部要妥慎檢討第二個這樣子周轉的做法它並不是一個預算使用的最正軌的方式因為它的前提也要包括我們的基金監理會要能夠同意同時也要在隔年的預算要能夠編得出來經過立法院的同意這裡面是有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6651.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6671.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
不確定性的所以我不能夠說只要過去有過這樣周轉的案例現在就想怎麼刪就怎麼刪反正不夠你就去借錢就是不對的並不是這樣所以我的意思說只是說如果真的不夠我們是有這個是其中一個方法甚至像剛剛吉他委員也有提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6672.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6691.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
如果真的自然難行我們也可以用追加預算只要提出合理性真的有需求我們是可以追加預算我說這都是其中的方法我們就是因為覺得我們爭取預算是有合理性所以之前才提出復議案很希望大院能夠同意這個復議案來重新討論這裡面可能會在執行裡面會遇到的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6692.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6703.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以有這個有這個案例的我們並不能說只要有過去有周轉的例子所以我現在想怎麼編想怎麼刪反正夠或不夠都無所謂反正到時候去借就這個當時預算中心也叫我們妥順檢討對部長就像我們剛剛講的其實剛剛針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6711.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6732.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們的項目裡面喔 刪了八百萬 但是八百萬是去做調整 但是我覺得現在 還有動兩千好 動 那都可以解動嘛 那我們行政院喔 我覺得現在我們因為預算喔 今年編的三兆多我們覺得行政院就像一個大胖子啊 那你今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6733.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6758.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這麼肥胖我們希望你做個健康的方式去做調整做瘦身但是你應該是用健康的方式去做調整去做減肥啊可是並不是叫你把這個預算太多去做刪除你一定要用斷手斷腳的方式來減重啊我覺得應該有很多健康的方式不應該用這麼極端惡劣的方式去做這樣子的處理的方式圖案就像這張圖上面寫的刪除800 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6760.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6779.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
也有凍結20%將近2000萬其實在這張圖上面三根凍加起來將近是三成不是部長你也知道那個凍結的部分是為了監督政府針對很多預算執行上面沒有做得很完善的地方所以提出希望我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6780.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6802.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
不會把做不好的地方加以改善之後提出改善計畫我們就會馬上解凍嘛所以這個凍的部分是良善的並不是刻意去阻撓我們的預算讓我們政府沒有辦法執行啦要是說如果全部都不能影響的話那難道是我們在這個來問條件與就業平衡業務裡面其他原本過去做的全部都要刪除全部都不能做這一樣是影響業務的執行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6804.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6824.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
三減八百凍結將近百分之二十兩千這就是事實啊這就是會影響這個業務下面在這個勞動條件級就業平等業務下面的執行那因為時間的關係我是建議啦像我們勞動條件級就業平等這三除八百萬其實有很多地方可以去做調整並不是一定要針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6826.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6832.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
大家都覺得很重要新手父母這個賠產價去減這個800萬要去找有些地方真的是多餘的錢並不是要去找這個很重要我覺得像我們的預算的審核我們就像一個大胖子我們是減肥要瘦身要健康並不是要用斷手斷腳的方式來減肥 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6847.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6861.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
如果立法院覺得哪些部分真的有瘦身的必要或者是預算執行有問題其實要求我們要減少或者是合理的監督我覺得這都沒有問題可是現在我們遇到的狀況是先刪了以後你自己再去找 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6862.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6884.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
甚至這個找的過程裡面就是壞事因為產檢架跟陪產檢架的薪資補助就是佔這一整大項裡面的最大的比例甚至是九成沒有我相信到我們大家今天在這邊我們都是平和理性如果有什麼東西自然難行我相信可以提出隨時都可以做調整而且我們在整個大項目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6886.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6906.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
刪減、凍除並不是要針對重要的項目所以就像我講我們是為了要健康多餘花的錢我們去做調整我們監督政府審查預算但是並不是要你去刪除我們覺得非常重要要用到的錢所以這部分我希望我們大家都可以好好來討論在這個項目在大廈裡面佔比喻太大了我簡單讓兩兆說得更清楚了實驗超過很多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6912.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6921.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
好 謝謝那接下來請 對不起我先來宣告一下待會盧縣議委員質詢完畢之後我們休息十分鐘好 接下來請王育民委員來做宣達好 謝謝主席我們有請洪部長來 請部長謝謝王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6939.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6953.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
部長這個勞工高喊還我七天假你之前也去參加過他們的活動對不對有沒有去參加過七天假嗎對他們的訴求我記得有一次你有去參加過你自己都忘記了 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6955.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6976.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
應該是去年 你有代表民進黨去參加過去接受陳情 接受訴求所以你完全知道勞工他的訴求嘛那這個在內政委員會呢也排了這個恢復國定假日期先假的這個議案那內政部部長是公然的反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6977.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6991.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以他是不贊成 甚至說這不是真正的議題內政部部長反對還給勞工7天假 請問勞動部部長你是支持還是反對你只要直接回答支持或反對就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7000.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7026.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這是一個立場的表態在國定假日的法規的主管機關是內政部那當然從勞動部的立場我們認為國定假日的調整的這個議題那如果可以在一致性跟公平性的原則下面做討論的話我們覺得有正向討論的空間你的回答很模糊正向討論的空間代表你是支持嗎我們覺得有正向討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7028.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7044.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
你不敢講出支持兩個字耶 洪部長你是勞動部部長耶支持勞動部部長站在全國千萬勞工的立場然後支持他們還給他們七天假這件事情有這麼困難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7045.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7068.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
王委員 我還是要說這一個法規的主管是在內政部當然啦 我是問勞動部部長你是贊成還是反對嘛對 我們覺得有正向討論的空間那是支持喔 我可以這樣講嗎我們覺得有正向討論的空間你怎麼一直在重複因為你的問題一直重複我叫你回答支持或反對這麼簡單的問題 我們的部長竟然回答不出來還是你根本就不敢回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7070.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7096.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你也不敢講支持你也不敢講反對我很清楚說了我們勞動部認為有正向討論的好那我就解讀說洪森漢支持還給勞工七天假那個我們覺得我們在政策討論的時候我覺得都應該要這個語意上面可以更精準這是我是希望說政策的討論要明確啊語意精準然後盡量不去做各種講話那我說洪森漢反對還給勞工七天假 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7098.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7121.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這個一樣也是這個不精準的簡化的詮釋啊其實部長你這樣子讓人家還蠻失望的大家說你從基層上來你最了解勞工的心聲結果在這種應該要表態的立場上面你還是用一種模糊以對不敢完全的表達自己站穩自己的立場如果勞動部部長都不敢站穩自己的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7122.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7128.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
內政部反對那請問行政院團隊裡面有哪一個內閣是支持還給勞工七天假的當勞動部都不敢幫勞工發聲那請問勞工要依靠誰為什麼我們歷任的這個勞動部部長都是往資方靠攏呢然後當時說換你上來會比較好因為你是從基層上來最理解勞工我看也沒有這樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7148.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7163.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你該表態的時候你現在是不是當了官之後也不太敢表態了還要看上億還是你要看內政部的臉色因為人家內政部部長已經不同意了你就不敢站在勞動部部長立場大聲的說我跟他立場不一樣我認為應該再還給勞工七天假 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7167.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7193.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
勞動部也是大的執政團隊議員該表達的事情我們會表達但這個議題的主管法規主管單位是內政部所以我們有我們的態度那我們的態度就是覺得這個議題有正向討論的空間那就是要增加七天假嘛應該就可以下這樣的標嘛你不反對吧正向討論的空間是什麼就是你支持嘛我們覺得這個議題有討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7196.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7202.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好那就是你支持我要讓你看一下那個數據我們現在的年總工時其實是不降反升近5年來從108年到現在他呈現的幅度本來有跌到谷底了就是不到這個一年不到2000現在去年又回升了到2030了所以在這樣的一個情況底下我們的勞工面對這一個工時過場的情況其實是沒有真正改善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7224.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7243.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
如果可以多給他們這7天假我想是會有效的降低他的年總工時這個是數學的問題一看就知道而你看到這個我們跟日韓的特休日的比較我們對於新進的這個勞工我們現在給的休假天數是比較少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7243.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7269.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
日本在第一年的時候是10天韓國是15天他們其實都很高我們是到後面年資的時候就是你的年資可能超過十幾年的時候我們才往上加所以這個當然對於比較年輕的勞工來講他現在面臨到的情況就是工時長國定假日少然後這個特休日數在第一年的時候也是相對日韓來講是比較低的所以我想勞工團體他們才會提出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7271.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7297.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
希望可以多增加這一個國定假日的7天假那我希望在這件事情上面部長你真的要站穩你的立場你搖擺的時候這個勞工的訴求就不可能達成因為連部長都不挺都不支持你的態度都不明確這個是不會有答案的接下來我要講的是這個防制霸凌專章對於保護勞工也是非常重要我要問你們你們的草案預計什麼時候對外公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7300.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7313.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們的草案目前其實已經在最後的收尾的階段那我們希望在這個會期大概我們也希望能夠盡快的把它預告出來然後能夠在這個會期送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7314.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7330.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
對 什麼時候要預告因為最後有些條文我們還在做相關的這一週會對外預告嗎可能沒有辦法到這一週這麼快那我們會盡快那是不是可以下週就對外可以預告我也希望盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7333.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7350.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我希望下週就可以預告那這其中有幾個部分我覺得很重要的我希望在你們的草案裡面要去定的更完整一個就是你的申訴機制你現在有沒有要求一定規模的企業他要建立申訴管道比照這個新工法 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7353.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7371.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
現在是應該是往這個方向就是在申訴調查包括這些相關你們現在是多少規模你們現在初步的草案多少規模要建立申訴法我們是有一定規模的企業的要求但是詳細的內容等到我們預告的時候會讓委員這邊知道你們現在應該有大概的方向有 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7375.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7397.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這比較新公法嗎?是30號嗎?比較新公法嗎?因為這個法規大家的討論都會去參考新公法的概念那另外一個霸凌的調查應要透明化你們現在外部委員佔的比例有沒有要求要多少?我要求至少要半數我想現在大家都認為外部委員是很重要的所以會過半嘛對不對?在你們的草案裡面有沒有過半? |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7400.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7429 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
有有過半嗎好我要求一定要這樣子才不會有關關相互的問題第三個是你的再申訴的管道的機制因為之前你們這個勞動部發生的很不幸的公務人員被霸凌然後致死案之後他遇到的問題就是第一次調查是沒有成立是第二次調查再調查輿論嘩然他才成立所以你們所謂的再申訴機制的救濟管道有沒有納入你們的草案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7429.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7441.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
當然救濟的做法這個當然這個都會在我們相關的法規裡面去做有納入嘛對不對我要求一定要這個再申訴的機制就是要納入裡面有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7444.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7469.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
細節的部分我想我們在預告的時候會讓大家知道這個是方向性的問題有沒有納入再申訴我們有設計有設計對不對我要求就是要設計進去那這個部分是大家很期待的所以我希望你們這個修法的速度也是要加快你們草案也可以盡快在下個禮拜就是對外公告讓外界再給予你們更多的意見我們也希望盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7469.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7487.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那最後一個是你的就業安定基金現在這個濫用7000萬這個之前大家已經討論很多你現在有一個測定作為那這個測定作為它其實不是法律它就是你公布的一個做法不是我們是會修訂法規命令 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7488.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7503.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
好 那我就問你你現在所有的策進作為是不是通通都可以入法你是選擇性的我看你有一些有有要修訂在你的就業安定基金收支保管及運用辦法但有一些其實是沒有你並不是全面性的入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7504.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7530.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
有一些會是行政規則但也有一些用法規命令我是希望你們回去再研議因為這次的整個救安基金所暴露的這些問題代表我們過去在管理跟運作上的確不夠嚴謹那既然你們要入法你如果覺得你這六項策進作為都是很到位而且很重要的你應該要研議每一項都在你的運用辦法裡面就是要加進去就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7531.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7548.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
你應該讓他法治化以免現在是紅部長覺得這個很重要下一次以後可能不知道換哪一位部長上來覺得不重要他就可以做該遵守或不遵守他其實是沒有一個法令的要求的這個我希望你們回去你們再解釋這個測定座我們已經在進行中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7550.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7574.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那對於規範的形式上面當然我們也可以再做一些思考好你們再回去研議好不好我要求的就是說希望這整個可以是更嚴謹的其實我們是把它修進我們的法規命令裡面好很好那你們就是整個你們再給我一份報告就是哪一些是修法規命令哪一些是修到你的運用辦法我希望看到的是你整個是一個很嚴謹的做法好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7577.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7593.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
好謝謝王委員謝謝部長我們來這個另做宣告剛剛是有說盧縣立委員選擇完之後我們就休息十分鐘那因為剛剛有王委員跟蘇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7595.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7609.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這兩位王批跟蘇批的協商結果是等蘇昭偉選打結束完之後我們再做休息啦所以在這邊做這樣的宣告請各位體諒一下那兩位時間一到我們就消音囉好請盧委員來謝謝不用超過來有請部長來有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7624.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7637.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
部長好 部長好 針對我們現在討論的時事 比如說七天假這些我覺得在我們原住民的觀點來看 我覺得還是很幸福因為我們還沒有到達那個層級 討論七天假的這個層級 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7639.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7660.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
因為我們還是在討論都會員住民工地的杯葛也就是說我們在看這個報導就是今年的1月份我們接龍市的一個理事長原住民的理事長叫班奈他說我們現在有一個工地的一個潛規則三不一要不能叫救護車不能就近就醫不能住院也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7662.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7689.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
現在如果你發生就是工地的意外的時候為了避免就是被停工啊或這些處分啊他們就會做這些規避的動作你不覺得我們的工作環境還是這樣的時候我們怎麼去討論7天的假確實原住民的勞工跟勞工朋友在很多工作的情形上面是特別辛苦對我這還要跟你說的就是說現在因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7689.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7709.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
大部分的工作都是做最高的比如說工地鷹架最深的比如說礦業最遠的遠洋漁業然後我們現在的勞動大概是將近有我們的29萬也就是占了1200萬的裡面的剛剛好跟我們的人口比例差不多在2.5左右可是我們現在的那個勞動檢查讓我們這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7710.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7725.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
可以拿到傷害補償還有容易受傷這些沒有辦法即使得到一些需要的幫忙比如說現在有高達五成拿不到所謂的工商你覺得你有這方面的一個解決方案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7726.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7747.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
跟委員報告凡是有重大傷害說我們檢查機構都去檢查檢查對勞工保護我們有勞工的那個職在個管的服務會進入進去做就協助不過申請傷病給付啊私人給付我們都會積極來處理那是因為有保險的部分可是很多在工地然後那些工頭為了方便起見常常都沒有納入保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7747.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7763.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
報告委員因為我們災保法通過之後這個就是應該就是強制加保如果沒有加保我們還是會依照保險局部給予那後會不會再跟勞工做求償所以這230月災保法的進度之後我們對無加保的勞工會有比較好的保護那剛剛委員詮詢的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7764.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7789.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們會透過跟地方政府再進一步合作就是漏掉的勞工我們趕快把他接上來那如果說我還是聽到這些東西的話我直接找你嗎沒問題因為這些事情常常會跑到辦公室來尋求幫忙確實我們發現營造工地裡面承攬承攬在轉包的部分是很明顯的但是即使是這樣子受僱的勞工不管是原住民或是一般民眾只要是他有工作的執行我們都認為他會在我們保護的範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7791.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7806.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
好 那針對我們所謂的照顧不離職的部分我們還是發現我們原住民因為結婚生育或者是因為家庭照顧的部分還是有高達9.4%是因為這些原因離開的你覺得部長你可以做哪些努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7808.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7826.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們其實當然希望整體的現在討論在照顧不離職裡面就是希望能夠是不是能夠在這個工時的做法上或者是在請假或留庭的做法上面能夠提供勞工更多的彈性是不是因為他的就業環境不友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7827.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7851.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
也許比方說像確實原住民族他也許他工作的類型會有一些他的特性可是我們是希望說這個整體的照顧因為照顧部體的討論的其實包括原住民跟非原住民都在這個政策規劃的範圍裡面那我還是希望這個9%是能夠及早能夠進步好不好當然加上我們現在看到平均的薪資如果4萬以下大概70% |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7854.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7881.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
3萬以下的還有30%我就說我們原住民的平均薪資大概還是落在這個區間那政府有做努力那我有看了一下就是說原民會有針對我們促進原住民就業獎勵計畫這個部分他大概在每個縣市全國大概有600位去年有600位受到補助可是好你說600位那我們目前的失業率來看的話失業率我們是3.46也就是有一萬多人是 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7882.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7900.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那可是我們的再就業率大概是12.45%也就是說其實這個補助大概只有一半而已就是說真正需要的人目前是600位可是我們的再就業率是12.45也就是1200人左右所以這個部分我想這個缺口是不是需要勞動部來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7903.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7926.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
跟委員報告這個有關原住民朋友的在居的獎勵是我們園民會的一個措施那當然勞動部以往在跟園民會有在這個跨部會的平台上會做這個協調所以這個部分我們會透過我們的相關的服務的據點來協助園會把這個措施讓更多人知道我已經直接告訴你了目前的缺大概就是一半了理解園民會幫忙了一半那勞動部這邊能不能再努力我知道政府有做了可是就是做得不夠好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7927.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7944.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這個我們在做部會的協調 上次部長你來拜訪辦公室的時候我有跟你講到常態性的這些我們安心即時上工的計畫比如說環境清潔文化傳承導覽解說能夠變成常態性的讓很多人因為工作或因為文化的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7945.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7959.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
他被認同的關係他不想離開部落他需要一份工作來溫飽他不一定要很多的錢可是如果說可能一萬塊左右或者兩萬塊左右他就覺得很滿足了像這種即時安心工作的話其實可以做長遠的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7961.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7981.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那個跟路人報告我們其實我們也可以來看一下現在我們一些就業輔助就業服務相關的計劃或者是裡面有沒有在哪些部分那特別適合來跟包括像委員辦公室或原住民的朋友來去做更直接的對接的合作的部分我們非常非常樂意來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7983.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8003.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我也樂見你對安定就業基金的這個部分的一些改善的面向你大概解釋得很清楚了不過裡面獨獨缺了就是安定原住民的就業狀況其實原住民的勞工有29萬多人那失業的大概1萬多人其實如果你可以改善這些的話其實對我們原住民的生活會有很大的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8004.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8025.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
可以嗎?至少這個面向裡面你那麼多面向裡面沒有一個是我們會來我們會來請法案署在特別針對原住民的就業的工作的狀況看我們怎麼樣可以提供更多的協助還有移工的部分現在要開放移工可是有15%點多的大概將近16%的原住民是被取代的這個被取代的部分你覺得應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8026.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8050.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
要怎麼來進步我想從勞工部的角度來說我們當然會認為本土勞工的就業權利本國的勞工就業權利應該是要優先的可是百分之十六很多所以這個部分要盡量去避免不然我們越來越多人失去工作已經生活已經很困難又失去工作的話又被取代的話不是變成次等工作我們希望這個要以本國勞工優先我覺得這是我們很清楚的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8051.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8070.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
目前你來的時候有講到資產霸凌的部分其實我們也收到很多資產霸凌的一些申訴可是我希望在那麼多的努力當中比如說我希望能夠公佈它的霸凌的樣態霸凌的單位目前處理的進度不然申訴員他永遠覺得他被漠視 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8071.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8096.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以我是覺得說因為上次比如說講那個單位你就說它的全職單位是哪裡哪裡可是當然我們沒有辦法去細看每一個人發生的那個事情可是如果有一個網站可以讓申訴人知道說我的霸凌的樣態被公佈了我霸凌的單位被公佈了然後我目前的處理進度是怎麼樣讓申訴人覺得說他有被重視我覺得是不是可以朝這個方向來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8097.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8111.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我想保護申訴人的權益然後包括他的救濟的管道包括保護他的相關的個資包括他的權利我想這當然都是我們在設計這個機制裡面非常重要的環節 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8112.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8136.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我還是就做一個問題來問部長我剛剛看了你的那個報告裡面大概我們的職災給付大概50億左右然後去年那個重大職災的死亡大概287我相信這裡面的很多是族人那我們的高空掉落的不僅沒有減少反而增加那我想知道這個50億裡面希望你三個月以內給我一個報告就是說50億裡面有多少是給原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8136.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8148.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好不好,讓我能夠掌握好,我們來請,這我們請我們的夜館單位來提供,謝謝好,謝謝接下來請王振旭委員來做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8156.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8168.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我想感謝主席能夠讓我有機會利用時間再繼續來請教部長也謝謝我們蘇召偉給我這個機會那我們就請部長主席我可以請部長來質詢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8179.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8204.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
今天我就針對這個強化育兒跟老人照顧的部分來就教一下部長早上部長已經把這個部裡面的很多業務都做了非常充分的說明就開始針對這個彈性育嬰假的部分其實事辦結果在3月3號部長也做了說明結果不如預期主要原因是因為大家其實更期待的是有關於這個更彈性的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8206.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8224.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
讓運用更方便另外針對丟子停薪又擔心這個行政程序太匆忙無法完成這些缺失我相信大家一開始其實也都了解所以如果有機會再試辦的話能不能根據這些問題做一些建議包括我們所看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8225.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8246.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
把這個產價賠產價還有等等的這些都能夠當作一個生產預備價來做調控另外就是如果婦女她以在一定週數以上有流產的話其實她心情已經非常不好那能不能也把她納為這個保障的範圍另外也可以提供更有彈性的育嬰假那在這個過程裡面有一些有心 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8247.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8261.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
彈線運營價的這個補助的可能性這是我們期待在下一波如果能夠再試辦的話能夠處理的那當然我們也希望擴大試辦的範圍包括能不能夠考慮接受政府補獎補助或者是抵減稅的這些企業都能夠來參加這份部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8265.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8294.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
因為這個關於照顧部體制的議題其實很多委員都非常關心那我們現在在也在去年的事辦的經驗之下做出檢討那確實現在整個檢討的方向就是希望能夠在相關的包括請假包括留庭等等的制度上面怎麼更大的提高他的彈性那讓這些相關的制度對於需要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8295.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8323.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
可能也不只是婦女啦也包括有些部分也是先生也會用到那就是夫妻雙方都可以覺得這個可以更好用所以可以普及率可以更高那這部分是我們現在的方向那這個方向就是希望說能夠去兼顧讓這個我們的勞工朋友他不用要去為了要照顧對家庭的照顧對小朋友的照顧而必須要離開職場那這對我們的勞動力的缺乏也不是好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8324.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8344.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
是 其實同樣的很多人很關心這個國定價值調整的部分我們期待就是在這個研議的過程裡面是針對這些休假制度的調整是對勞工最有利的方向來演繹那這部分讓麻煩部長持續來多關注跟了解謝謝這是有關於第一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8344.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8365.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那再過來就是財務法通過以後其實對勞保財務相對應該是受到蠻大的影響包括這個中央可能會少了3700億可以運用的部分會影響到這個勞保的撥補那如何來因應這樣的困難我們也知道目前這個勞保撥補還不是法定的義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8366.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8393.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以目前也不希望說透過修法去調降幾戶那未來有沒有考慮勞保撥補能夠入法把它變成一個法定義務之處我想其實現在在財化法的這樣子之下如果這個這樣子修訂後的財化法真的我說如果如果他真的上路執行確實中央整體的財源會有很大的限制跟限縮那勞保的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8395.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8403.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
確實現在不是法定物之初但是我想政府會一直是秉持著我們會負最終支付責任的政策的目前的政策的態度就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8404.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8425.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
只是確實現在會對於 因為像去年我們是撥了今年114年是撥了1300億那包括疫後的部分是1300億 整體是1300億可是在採訪法如果真的上路執行後還能不能維持這樣的水位這個是我們會比較擔心的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8426.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8440.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好那我們就麻煩部長持續再往這邊對至少這個勞工但至少政策的態度上面還是會是政府政府是在是會負最後的責任態度上面政策上面現在就是這樣是對可是我們確實會會有財務法通過後的擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8443.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8462.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好那再過來就是有關護理人力的缺失大家都很期待趕快有好的一些人力可以來進行這個補充包括這個中階附著的人力的運用將來能不能夠盡速而落實那我也了解部長現在在跟歐湖部部長那邊已經有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8463.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8481.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
原理的措施我們也期待能夠讓了解這個措施在未來執行的時候可以有更便利因為這個會牽扯到未來這個開放80歲以上免糧表的部分如何能夠適中 氣重則輕讓有需要照顧的這些長者他真的能夠得到好的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8482.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8492.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那如果還可以的話那就不一定要使用到這些我們的外勞的人力等等這個部分就麻煩部長這邊持續跟衛福部這邊來做一些持續的研議這是請部長來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8497.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8521.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那最後其實還有一點點時間也了解針對於這個就業安定基金的合理運用今天很多很多委員都非常的關心那如何有效管理其實大家最期待的那部長上任以後也面對這樣的困境做了非常多的努力那也期待這個就業安定基金的合理運用跟有效管理是可以讓國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8522.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8548.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
能夠信賴而且是可以來支持的那這部分可不可以請部長再利用一點點時間來做更完整或進一步的說明關於救援基金我想未來的部分那這個我們其實提出了一個精進把關的做法剛剛其實很多委員也也有來去詢問那所以未來我們當然就會從用途面從管理面從資訊面來去更 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8551.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8566.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
更有效的來去管理交換基金希望過去發生一些狀況一些爭議不要再發生那第二個是針對過去的部分那現在這個過去現在可能會被指教的一些案例或項目那現在審計部也正在查 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8566.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8593.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那剛剛其實也幾個委員有來說這個審計部查狀況最後我們當然會尊重審計部在審計工作裡面的判定那相關的資料在審計部他的結果出來之後但因為這個現在還在審計部的整個專案審計工作裡面那在這個結果出來之後我們當然也願意把我們的一些相關的回覆那 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8594.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8621.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
如果需要提供的話再提供好那這個部分我相信部長如果透過審計部最後提供給我們了解或更多相關的這些運用的話我想國人就會更因為現在還在審計部的專案審計的過程裡面那對於資訊公開我們就覺得很多資訊是可以公開可是最後審議部的報告結果出來之後那該提供給大家去了解的我想我們的態度是開放的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8624.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8632.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
好那就請部長跟所有同仁繼續努力好謝謝謝謝接下來請蘇清泉 趙偉來做選擇謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝趙偉然後請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8653.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8674.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
說得很好部長辛苦了我看你接任到現在都看都是都是靠藥物沒有啦靠什麼藥物在撐沒有啦都靠聖上獻宿啦來我要跟你感謝這個是東港 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8679.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8691.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
還有我們南部海邊我們漁船上的漁工不管是近海的不管是遠洋的那以前那麼漁工到岸上來整理一些漁獲就被抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8692.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8719.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那後來在我還有勞動部還有漁業署的努力那終於各位看到漁船博港的時候協助卸貨整理漁貨整理漁具補給所需的就是可以接受可以做你覺得這件事有多嚴重魚那裡可以岸上本來喔那些漁工站在船上 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8720.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8728.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
在那裡看台灣人,或是老船長、老夫婦在那裡整理魚那些魚公主站在船上看 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8729.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8734.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
站觀塑,看那些小台,這樣啦,看那些做事,他們站在那裡看,因為他們上岸,就被抓,說不可以殺魚,不可以殺,我跟部長報告,那些魚都死魚,都凍起來了,那不是殺生,我的答案就是殺生啊,殺魚啊,死了就整理魚貨而已啊,對不對, |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8754.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8776.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那個所以其實我們很多外籍漁工其實是非常辛苦的啦那當然怎麼樣讓大家的這相關的規定能夠跟現場的狀況然後工作現場的狀況能夠來去做互相的協調所以每個船長都被划到都快要受不了啦好在有反應然後一直積極的勞動部這邊後來也跟那個約署 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8781.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8808.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這是順義民情我覺得這個是非常非常棒的所以要跟你們加油謝謝蘇貞好那再來講講比較這個巴士量表我們通過了兩三個月那你現在你到底是要再怎麼做你上次有跟我解釋嘛你再解釋一下讓我們大家了解好跟蘇貞還有其實很多關心的朋友說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8810.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8835.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
因為這個是立法院三讀通過的法律修正案當然我們就會來執行那現在勞動部現在在做的事情是必須全力的來規劃配套那這個配套裡面最重要的事情是怎麼樣保障重症家庭的權利因為其實現在我們已經在很多地方聽聞到有些重症家庭他們的這個聘僱的看護移工其實已經有一點想要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8836.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8859.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
之前所謂說棄重則輕的狀況其實已經陸陸續續會出現所以我們要怎麼保護中正家庭權益所以我們目前其實會設計一個雙軌的程序這個雙軌的程序讓中正家庭可以在這裡面得到比較多的協助跟比較多的方便那因為這個程序的重新設計所以它會深設到其實會需要蠻多增加的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8860.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8887.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那這個人力從經費的尋找到招募甚至人力還需要訓練這都需要一些時間需要幾個月的時間那也包括我們其實也要到這個移工的來人母國來跟他們討論能不能夠增加引進的數量那這個數量的增加那才比較能夠去因應現在可能市場大幅會這個很快速會增加的這樣的需求避免更大程度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8889.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8917.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
市場供需的失衡所以這整體來說我們都在很審慎而且很積極的作業之中而且跟衛福部也持續的開會討論共同研商那我們評估下這些工作算起來可能真的還是要個半年六個月那這真的不是我們刻意去做什麼行政怠惰行政杯葛都不是我們是要付某個部分我們是要負起降低衝擊的責任不然如果貿然的沒有把配套做好狀況開放會 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8918.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8935.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
真的會對重症家庭產生很多的衝擊好 這個部長說的就是我們兩個重點第一個重點就是外籍看好自白他有長時間以後他就可以申請他要轉僱主了嘛所以他會對這個當政的重症的他不喜歡招呼他去他要轉換僱主 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8937.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8961.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這是第一個考量第二個考量就是真的外籍看護看護工如果素質比較好一點的韓國日本搶著用我們能不能搶得到我們的薪資比他們低老實講還是比較偏低所以這兩個考量那你要做好的配套這個我可以接受那再來你跟我說兩分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8964.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8979.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個是外籍遺失聯的剛剛盧縣一委員在講的事情我要跟他follow一下因為外籍的移工勞工第一次要去接到我們的原住民的工作機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8980.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9005.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那我講一個事實給你看因為原住民這邊我常常在跑屏東那邊就非常熟跟那邊也很綿密每天早上五點多就會看到派湖啦 春日啦 萊義啦就一個班長然後開一步想要吃 店館在才會有六個七個 八個就下去到北地 還是去到高雄市去做工地 做鐵工 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9008.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9031.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那我這邊要我很感謝常說一萬多個人的工作機會會被外國勞工搶走我倒是建議勞動部這邊要加強要去執訓的最當然你要把那個我們原住民的朋友因為都很強體壯的你要讓他的技術水平往上拉你也讓他去騎車你要教他拔車你要讓他騎摩邦你要叫他點摩邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9036.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9049.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你騎車一天的薪水差不多一千六千八如果電磨棒的都兩千五啊兩千六、兩千八馬上可以增加而且讓它技術水平往上拉你給它砌磚你給它做頭緒一天三千幾塊你給它調整啊沒意思嘛那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9058.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9082.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
外籍的勞工進來我在台數六、七還看到外籍的移工在焊接他們也接受好的訓練之後焊接他們的管線,不銹鋼的管線那一工三千多塊耶所以你要把原住民這裡如果有人說話,就要先保溫後面保溫,你一定要自己提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9084.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9111.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這第二組啦跟委員說明確實現在我們看到在整體的產業討論缺工的狀況裡面最缺的就是這些技術工沒錯那這些技術工所以不管是對我想也不只對原住民但對原住民朋友我們其實可以特別怎麼樣子來協助大家做這些職業訓練讓大家在這個技術工的缺乏的狀況之下有機會可以有更好的工作的機會包括更多的收入我想這當然都是我想勞工部很樂意 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9113.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9132.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
這個要加強一定要more attention在這一塊因為我們原住民很多朋友都當軍警我在大五雲區看到跳傘的大五雲區整個裡面的幹部不管是軍官士官士兵原住民的朋友佔了56% |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9135.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9152.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以我覺得我們骨幹都在這裡所以再來就是他們勞力這一塊階級的你一定要把他訓練讓他們拉高他的資助水平增加他的收入 這個很重要時間到了喔好 謝謝謝謝蘇昭偉 謝謝部長好 現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9168.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9169 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9946.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9957.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
好 我們繼續開會 接下來請黃熊委員來做懸答謝謝主席 我們請部長來 有請部長嘿 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9966.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9988.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
部長好部長我最近看到我們勞動部也揭露國際工時的比較從這個比較當中我們也看到台灣的2023年的人均工時達到2020個小時在全球主要國家當中是排第五 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9989.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10014.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
第五高那亞洲的話是第二高那我不知道說部長你看到這個調查之後你的感想是怎樣你有看到這個我當然認為就台灣的工時的問題的話我們當然有可以改善的空間是有改善的空間嗎我們當然覺得是部長我想請教因為之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10016.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10041.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
最近我想之前也有討論就是還勞供七天假這個議題那最近大家也在討論說是不是這個假期能夠統一那我也想請教就是說如果我們在這個整個制度上面譬如說我們這個工時是不是有可能再做一個調整或者是我們目前的這個特休 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10042.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10064.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
特休是不是也有可能再做一個調整那如果說未來可能我們國民黨的委員可能會針對勞工七天假的這個議題可能會再修法那如果說是我們的話有沒有可能如果說不去修法的話那有沒有可能在我們這個特休這方面去做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10066.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10083.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
跟黃委員說明其實因為今天也很多委員在討論國定假日是否有調整我說從勞動部的角度來說我們還是要表達這個法規的主管機關是在內政部那我們很願意參與這個部分的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10084.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10102.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那當然從勞動部的角度來說我們認為國定假日的調整那我們很願意正向的來做相關的討論但是剛剛黃委員講到一個就是說關於要不要修法的問題這個要不要到立法院裡面用修法的形式或立法的形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10104.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10118.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
在國會裡面立法行事的部分的話因為勞動部是整個大的也是我們是大整個大的執政團隊的議員但就這個法規要用什麼形式來處理要不要進到立法院修法這部分當然我們會尊重內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10119.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10146.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們會尊重內政部但國定假日需不需要調整或者是說要不要調整我們覺得是有討論的空間那這是不一樣的層次一個是要不要立法一個是一個要不要調整這是不太一樣的事情但要不要立法的部分這部分當然我們會尊重內政部因為內政部是法規的主管機關那部長我剛剛也有提到一個問題就是說那我們這個特休的部分有沒有可能也去做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10147.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10175.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我認為因為確實最近大家針對特休有一些討論但因為特休如果要調整的話也是要涉及到修法所以要涉及到修法都會需要這個需要社會上面有更多的共識或者是更多的討論是部分要涉及修法但我們願意來聽社會各界的想法因為我們也看到就是說可能我們整個工時可能跟其他國家比起來可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10176.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10191.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
也許是比較高一點那再來就是說我們台灣是以中小企業為多數很多如果說你要修到特休要修到這個15年可能15年以上可能就有這個15天5年 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10192.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10211.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
就是5到9年差不多15天嘛那10年後是每一年再加一天最高到30天嘛那我們知道就是說台灣的這個中小企業平均平均的這個就是一間中小企業的公司的平均收益差不多是13年 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10212.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10240.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以他如果說要到這個特休如果要到那個30天的話其實還是有他的困難所以我們是不是有可能就是說在這個特休方面可能也許可以再去做一個調整我記得在2016年那時候有去做一個調整那是不是可以再做一個也許在這方面是不是可以再做一些調整或是可以再做一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10241.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10250.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我覺得這些相關的制度因為我剛才說確實工時的台灣工時的狀況是有改善所以我覺得我想我們都會聆聽各界的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10252.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10281.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
好 那就是還需要就是大家討論然後聽各界的聲音那我剛剛有特別提到就是說這個特休的部分那當然就是也是需要聽各界的這個聲音那我另外一個就是說我想請教就是說我們以前如果我們在那個人力銀行上面可能就是說這個求財那也許薪資方面可能就會寫免疫 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10282.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10309.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
可能就是薪資他沒有特定這樣去寫那後來有去做一個就做一個這個修正就是說如果是這個最低薪資或是三萬多的話也許你就是要去這個寫名薪資多少那也許是四萬以上就可以就是用免疫嘛那我覺得說這個部分我覺得應該揭露的話可能也許對勞工來講會是比較好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10313.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10335.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
確實就像剛剛黃媛說其實工時長也有一個原因是因為其實如果對很多比較低薪的勞工的話他就有部分低薪勞工他就覺得他可能會需要透過加班來提高收入那這當然是我們我們不會鼓勵不樂見看到這個狀況所以我們覺得其實有時候拉高薪資也會是一個降低工時的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10336.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10362.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那拉高薪資的做法第一個我們現在是透過最低工資的持續的提升這是一個第二個就是關於薪資透明化所以接下來關於薪資透明化我們也希望能夠把這個從4萬以下要揭露變成是拉高是5萬以下就要揭露那這個會來修訂就會服務法那目前這也是在行政院的經濟發展委員會裡面其實有確認那我們現在也在準備這個法規修訂相關的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10363.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10390.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
所以目前也是在行政院這邊我們現在正在法官修訂的準備就是希望把4萬要揭露提高到5萬要揭露我想請教就是說其實我們以前中央政府部門如果是約聘僱或者是約聘約用人員可能勞務承攬的有的都是用最低薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10391.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10408.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那現在就是說對於我們公務單位的這個月聘僱承攬承攬人員他的薪資現在已經這個月薪最低薪資就是月薪的用最低薪資的1.1倍那大約是三萬三萬一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10410.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10426.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
449元那這個是用公務單位這邊來算就是說不是用最低薪資是用最低薪資的1.1倍那就差不多3萬1千多那我想請教就是說這個有沒有可能就是勞動部去對於一些企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10427.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10440.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
是不是你們也可以去鼓勵或者是擴及到全國的企業就是說用最低薪資來聘用是不是我覺得說這方面應該勞動部也可以去鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10443.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10468.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
陳蘭只要是你適用勞舉法的勞工的話一定都是要用最低薪資以上的那我們現在當然我們很希望去鼓勵企業不只是給最低薪資甚至該給更高所以可能比方說我們最近其實也會有一些工會他用團體協約的方式或者是我們也在想用其他的方式來協助或刺激企業其實可以更大的加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10469.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10491.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我覺得部長你應該從現在已經從我們自己的這個公部門開始那我覺得國營事業我覺得應該也可以去要求或者是鼓勵他們希望能夠用最低薪資的這樣的1.1倍來聘用我覺得這個也是一方面就是從政府做起啦是 當然我們來跟相關的事業單位來討論一下這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10494.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10511.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們希望是這樣子來做那這個最後一個就是說最近大家就是希望就是說我剛剛講的這個國定假日也好那或者是那個國定假日能夠一致啦那其實我有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10511.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10530.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
有一個想法就是說如果未來我們如果不透過這個修法的話那又可以讓所有勞工或者是公務人員大家休假又比較一致的話我覺得在春節方面的這個休假會不會是一致會更好因為我們如果以今年的這個春節來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10532.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10561.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
其實我們今年的春節有九天嘛那到明年2026年的這個春節也許只剩下六天如果沒有彈性放假的話可能就剩下六天那如果說要讓我們所有的國人放假是一致的我覺得可以朝著這個春節然後又讓勞工勞工的這個工時又不會那麼長然後大家春節全國一致放假而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10562.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10574.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
未來就是如果是一致放假的話就是都有九天我覺得這個也是皆大歡喜我相信請部長如果說跟行政單位大家在討論的話我覺得可以朝著這個方向去思考我還是要說因為這個國家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10577.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10603.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
主管單位在法規主管單位內政部但是就像這些相關的提案相關的想法的討論其實我們都是正面看待然後我們也願意一起參與這些討論我們正面看待也願意參與討論但是確實就是針對最後法規要用什麼形式要不要進到立法院立法這部分我們當然還是尊重內政部是 好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請林署委員來做選答 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10612.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10617.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
主席 各位大家午安 是不是就交予我們這個洪部長來 請部長 謝謝評委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10624.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10648.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
部長好我想今天大家就教很多但我想談一點不一樣的這一點就是說因為我們看到這個民陽大火發生了10個人死亡100多人輕重傷的這個事故還有這個新埔的這個遠東化遷爆炸死亡造成爆炸造成這個多人死亡和受傷的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10649.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10662.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那因為新聞被蓋掉了所以當然我特別想要談這個是因為我們發現制度面恐怕還是有一些問題那職安法最大的修正是本人在大概2013年 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10665.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10679.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
13年修正的嘛那執安法裡面有很多的這個授權的執法交給你們去制定其中有一個叫做製程安全評估定期這個實施辦法那依據執安法的第15條第三項你們去訂了這個執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10682.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10686.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那規範事業單位大概每5年需要重新驗證製程安全評估報告來確保製程危害能反映操作現況而且這種狀況裡面這個製程安全如果一直產生危害那不管是民養的或者是原動化遷的傷亡都特別的嚴重而且還都是很大的跟公安有很大的連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10708.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10726.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
其實對社區來講它也是一個不定時的炸彈那我要談這個制度面是因為因為這個辦法裡面直接講說適用這個辦法你們強制規定了大概就是你們所謂的假類的工作場所但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10729.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10744.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
甲類裡面大概有兩大範疇第一個就是石化業第二個就是製造、處置或使用危險物及有害物達勞動檢查法施行細則附表一、附表二規定數量的工作場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10745.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10757.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
你是限縮在這兩項假類這兩項但是我們現在要討論就是說那我簡單先問你遠東新的化纖廠它是屬於辦法中的規範事業單位嗎現在應該看起來不是不是不是它不是就從這個目前的規範裡面不是對啦那民養是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10778.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10797.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那你們覺得這一個要求製程安全要有個評估計劃五年都要做一次然後自行自律然後自行汰換設備自行做安全檢查那你覺得這個遠東新他們這一類的需不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10799.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10812.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
跟文說明我其實自己我們自己有去到因為在遠東新的事件爆發之後我自己也去看相關傷者跟我們其實有去探望確實遠東新的案例他過去其實他是不用申報的對那 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10814.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10817.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那你覺得需不需要納管我認為需要好那為什麼要講這個是因為我們在今年二月原東興爆炸以後呢你們訂了一個高風險工廠的火災爆炸危害預防指引那你們的適用範圍第一個高風險設備第二個高風險作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10836.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10861.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那顯然看起來這高風險設備所指涉的範圍你們包括火爐、煙囪、加熱裝置及其他亦引起火災的高熱設備化學設備、高壓氣體設備、危險製造處置及使用的設備等等等等然後高風險作業、容階容斷的作業作業從所亦有亦然亦體的蒸汽、可燃性蒸汽或爆炸性粉塵等等等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10862.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10874.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
你們這一個高風險工廠火災爆炸的危害預防指引的適用範圍顯然遠遠的大於你們製程安全評估定期實施辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10876.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10893.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那這個辦法跟這一個作業指引你覺得適用範圍有沒有必要要統整而且要將你們現行的預防指引的適用範圍全部劃入你安全評估必備的必做的這個範圍裡面署長要講謝謝委員其實委員這邊非常專業那我們15條確實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10901.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10917.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
當初定義的邏輯就是讓最高風險的部分要做製程安全評估五年評估一次因為他如果環境改變對啦你們就是鎖定最高風險的那我這次指引就是其實依照我們第五條本來雇主對他的製程安全就會做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10918.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10940.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
比較細部的評估展開跟預防不過現在委員提起是我們內部要討論第一個假類部分就是第15條要不要做一些再把它做比較嚴格把一些再風險再拉進來這是第一個層次第二層次其他還沒拉進來的部分本來就是雇主依照我們指引要做它的預防的一些展開那展開之後我們講的就在後面後段的查核我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10941.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10950.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
是不同城市我們不同風險管理不要講這麼多 第一個你就回答我是不是要再擴大納管我們在延續擴大納管以後其實擴大納管也不是要讓它涵蓋面更更廣一點然後再來 但問題是這樣子它做了計畫它必須強迫五年就要做一次的這個製程安全的評估計畫可是這個計畫等於改善嗎等於改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10970.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10997.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
做計畫 作文比賽 請專家學者花一筆錢告訴你們 然後這個計畫要向你們申報還要報備吧 備案跟委員報告 制裁安全評估所有國家的機制是一致的公司依照管理系統做制裁安全評估評估之後要做後面的PTCA的檢測那我們當然政府機關是看他的過程中得不得當所以這一次我們會發這個指引 那我問你一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10999.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11009.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
民洋大火是不是需要做他儲存很多化學品是高風險的所以顯然看起來製程安全他是那管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11009.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11029.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
包委其實民間大火在前年發生當然是不管是消防法、共產黨輔導法跟我們治安法院官員發表也都在做檢討那這個部分當初它是低爆、漏爆所以沒有進入我們的後來發現它量多應該是變成我們的我現在沒有辦法聽得懂你到底在講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11031.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11032.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
因為就現行的納管程度不足的製程安全定期實施辦法看起來民洋都像是甲類裡面它製造 處置或使用危險物達到一定數量的工作場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11047.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11065.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那我問你他有沒有申報製程安全計畫你說 你就直接告訴我有或沒有報告委員 沒有 因為他前面跟消防法跟工廠法都沒有報了所以這都是在兩年前所以啊 我現在問你制度在這裡沒有報會怎麼樣沒有報會怎麼樣應報而未報會怎麼樣你當初有開法嗎2023年到現在有開法了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11075.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11086.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
明天大火我們授權金家區是有開罰的罰多少我們再把這個罰多少救生員的母法執安法第15條第三項違反法律罰多少死了十個人一百多人輕重傷依照執安法應該要申報而未報你們罰多少不會是三萬吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11100.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11122.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有可能是三萬違反第15條第三項從三萬罰到三十萬罰三十萬死了十個人我們都知道職災的最高原則是預防不要發生而我們治安法的最高原則就是希望要做到不發生而當發生的時候如果代價是這麼輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11125.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11134.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
什麼人管你遵守法律這法尊的意願太低了吧因為罰則太輕了這題我會回去看看當初那個我們的授權進下去大概有罰多少我後續跟委員報告我現在告訴你喔第一個涵蓋面不夠第二個有處分有罰則但是罰得很輕第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11152.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11154.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們在講說他必須要五年做一次的報告可是呢 因為民養大火之後有一個環工顧問公司在之後他們去檢視了其他高爾夫球球器製造商請他們進場去看結果該場的作業環境的粉塵和VOC問題遠比民養更嚴重因為民養發生以前他已經去過 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11173.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11182.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
倘若現場有可燃物質引發火災後果不堪設想非要等到工廠出事這是他的意見啦外界才會積極要求檢討改善然而場內作業環境糟糕也會造成員工的職業傷病我們都知道這也是來自職安法所以在這種狀況裡面他們一直在抱怨說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11198.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11207.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個計劃 評估計劃做好了 雇主沒有改善的意願 了備一格需與委員 需與委員應付你們勞動部 那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11209.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11221.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那個我應該講幾件事情第一個事情是納管的範圍對涵蓋面不夠是不是可以擴大涵蓋面不夠跟高風險工廠火災爆炸危害預防指引應該要重疊起來在這一份指引裡面的納管範圍我們會來請治安署來做檢討關於納管範圍然後罰則不夠第二個是怎麼讓這些廠商尤其是高風險的廠商能夠去落實這一類需要爆的 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11237.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11263.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
都已經是高風險而且目前是最高風險但是最高風險是沒有你看他漏報你們也不知道全台灣還有多少漏報所以法規跟管制的工具怎麼樣來強化目的是要讓這些事情我們想要做的管理跟管制能夠落實這兩點我們會來請資安署來做檢討第三點有做了報告但不等於改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11264.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11282.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這件事情要怎麼解決這是我剛才說的落實啊就是說你有做報告可是你沒有在實際的作為上面去落實那怎麼樣子來要求這些廠商必須要來落實他們去做的相關的報告我覺得這部分我請資安署這邊製作面很大的漏洞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11282.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11300.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
而且到現在漏報沒有申報你們完全沒辦法勾機而且沒有辦法再檢查製程安全他著重的是在講工業製程相關的危害特別是他都是重大的公安危害火災爆炸毒性化學物質的外洩能量釋放的這是這麼重大的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11300.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11324.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
其實這個以製程安全的操作環境為目標保持製程的安全操作狀態才能夠確保這個受僱者他有一個安全還有才能確保這一個工廠的周遭的環境是安全所以製程安全的操作跟工廠設施的設計人員安全的操作和良好的文物有關在這種狀況如果法制面是這樣子這麼簡單就可以逃脫 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11329.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11333.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們的法制面原來是這麼簡單可以刪掉刪掉以後沒有任何的處分政府不知道不知道直到爆炸才知道這就是最重大的問題好那我再講第二個問題這是根據勞動及職業安全衛生紀刊研究紀刊113年12月裡面一篇報導他們有發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11352.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11356.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
因為大家還有去申報的沒申報的你們都搞不清楚但有去申報的裡面發現製程的整個生命週期中重複實施製程安全評估實務面上發現在經過評估週期後越不容易發現新的中度的風險和較高風險的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11376.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11388.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那況且今年化學品災難性事故如火災爆炸事故頻傳這種事故的調查發現在製程安全評估時多半沒有分析到潛在危害顯然製程安全評估的有效性已經出現疑慮好 這個意思是什麼就是說 你都不要出事 你如果出事然後他們就要進場去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11403.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11430.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
調查事故的時候發現他們交給你們的上傳給你們的備案交給你們報備的他們的製程安全評估計畫其實都沒有分析到潛在危害親債給你高高的 你的親債備案你如果就沒人在看所以這個製程安全評估的這一個制度在運作上顯然是了備一格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11434.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11434.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
这样没办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11437.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11466.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
報告委員那個民間的意見我們尊重但是我們做送過來的甲類的工作場所的評估報告書我們也會從評估報告書裡面去看他的他的那個時效性而且我們從這個時效怎麼五年一次要說時效報告委員我們還列入我們專我們列管這些甲類的工作場所也會做如果你有列管他沒有申報你怎麼會不知道有沒有列管的然後沒有申報的你不知道的報告委員現在沒有申報的部分就我們會用到那個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11467.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11475.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
行政院在列一個化學雲的那個平台把工廠輔導法通報的資料你現在在講的好像都沒有問題可是執行面就是給你問起來你會欺負一個老頭我們沒有說沒有問題我們會持續讓這個風險控制到最低當然我們會繼續加油你可以保證未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11486.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11508.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
絕對不會有任何一家甲類的或是未來全面性涵蓋性更廣的納管的不會有不申報或是申報不實或是申報內容沒有涵蓋到分析潛在危害或是他申報到有潛在危害但是不等於改善 他願意改善因為法規沒有強制他要求改善 那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11511.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11529.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
包委員風險評估的精神就是他要持續的不斷改善啊沒有改善啊沒有改善啊內積跟外積要做後續的外積在哪裡外積你們積了多少包委員內積內積哪有內積他內部的積才就請人家來評估評估完了就依舊如故 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11531.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11545.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
報告就歸報告但是所以我們在講說這個顧問公司的人看到的現場就是現在寫了報告了但是廠商不願意改善也沒有動機改善也沒有動力改善因為官方沒人在查沒人要緊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11550.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11564.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這個就是現在真正的事實報告委員我們其實我們那個甲類工廠所那個報告書我們也做抽案查核所以委員今天跟我們提醒我們要做積極的改善其實如果一上工廠生產最危險的東西風險他創造他自己要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11565.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11575.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
有效的改善跟解除那我們假機構跟我們展署是在那個監督要求改善角度其實他們叫做你講的是理想狀態是應該這樣沒有錯但是我們都以為工廠會自律業者會自律因為整個廠燒掉他們不會有好處要付出很大的代價可是真正的事實是大家都有一種姑且的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11586.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11591.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
不可能這麼衰 不可能會發生的阿拉伯剛剛講民養之後這個顧問公司到其他的高爾夫球劇場去看VOC粉塵比民養更嚴重欸所以你不要以為說廠商理所當然應該要怎麼樣沒有這一回事所以關於這個這件事情是知識體大而且我再講一次這個東西只是規範最高風險的那幾家而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11618.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11645.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這個納管跟蓋面還很低耶可是我要跟你講一個數據你要清楚 部長你要聽一下2016到2023年這7年經統計國內工廠 潮車交通實驗室除倉儲學校及其那場所發生危害性化學物質事故每年都超過400件其中工廠事故251件最多而工廠的事故裡面火災爆炸的件數最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11646.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11666.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
上述的上述不是只有工廠啦331件所以在這種狀況裡面這很重大的公安危害我們是看到職安署的職安組組長朱文勇說今年的勞動檢查方針要加強火災爆炸高風險工廠的檢查是不是真的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11668.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11676.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
近期真的發生了很多件包括剛剛講的遠東新世紀都是個案的啦你們有沒有通案要去檢查你們的組長是說預計今年要檢查1000多個場次有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11683.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11713.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
包委員確實我們看火災爆炸案子今年跟去年有增加趨勢所以我們除了遠東化遷這個案子我們這邊倒升油的專案檢查做展開 出廠 覆廠沒有啦 遠東化遷不需要講了我們知道這是你們經常拿出來當標竿的我們有做火災爆炸特別石化業的專案檢查我們今年會做著重做這樣處理 就不要再講遠東化遷因為遠東化遷實在是很漏氣的因為人家是你們的得獎廠商我看看那個獎是什麼獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11714.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11716.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
你們那個獎是什麼獎 他是得到你們什麼獎2023年職安署辦理第一屆健康勞動力永續領航企業選拔健康勞動力獲獎名單遠東新世紀然後呢就馬上發生爆炸造成兩人死亡還有幾人受傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11740.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11750.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
然後他是設備老舊然後你們當天我們開了記者會以後你們專屬有承認你們審查健康勞動力領航企業的審查標準是根據企業所提供的白皮書寫的好不好做書面審查這完全是脫離實際狀況所以得獎的廠商馬上就造成重大傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11767.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11777.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
為人這我沒辦法接受所以接下來我們會要求要把考慮器我們也沒辦法接受公安事故違規紀錄都要納入這個評價的範圍台灣石化產業很多是上市貴公司非常大的經濟規模過去景氣好的時候他們都不願意花錢改善而現在我們知道石化業或者是傳統產業他現在世界的景氣不好或者是國際的競爭力下降了他更不可能花 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11797.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11806.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
白白沒有發生事情的時候去花錢所以我們不是希望你仰賴業者的自律而是希望國家政府要進場進場 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11811.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11828.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
對那個林委員因為已經時間超過了我的質詢只有質詢到一半啦還有另外一個制度面問題下一次再問啦但是就是說可以嗎先跟委員說明我們當然我自己不希望是去只依賴業者的自律第二個剛才委員講到那個獎項的評選的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11831.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11845.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
屬面作業審查居然以一個過去職災紀錄或者是發生公安紀錄這麼多的廠商居然被納選進去2023年的永續臨航獎這個我不能接受所以我們會要求把這些公安紀錄違規紀錄都要納入未來評選的考慮裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11850.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11863.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
每年都燒 每年都燒 還可以得到得獎第一屆治安署的這個獎項沒有辦法接受 你要回去好好檢討好 謝謝林淑芬委員接下來請劉建國委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11888.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11899.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
好 謝謝主席現在還不到12點 已經在發送便當了 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11901.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11910.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
是不是部長因為從委員當部長瘦了瘦很多然後還是部長要靠藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11911.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11938.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
因為剛剛有蘇青委員特別講的因為蘇醫師是蘇青也是醫師嘛所以我是覺得今天部長創造很多的關鍵字延節瘦了 靠藥然後行政院是胖子行政院是胖子所以行政院的預算特別多所以要瘦身把行政院比喻成胖子這有沒有歧視問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11940.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11968.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那胖子就一定不健康嗎瘦身之後就一定會健康嗎我沒有看到部長有積極的回應部長請你上來好不好好來請黃部長你是不是因為瘦了精神狀況有問題但這樣的比喻真的比喻有點奇怪嘛你不覺得嗎今天如果說胖子來隱喻比喻行政院的這個預算的規模然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11969.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11993.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這種邏輯是什麼?我實在不太清楚然後如果行政院預算是比較多然後來孕育胖子那代表是胖子脂肪比較多把行政院預算比喻胖子的脂肪然後瘦身之後會比較健康那站在行政院議員的一個部會首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11995.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12014.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
對這事情怎麼沒有做一個積極的回應我覺得這是有問題喔大總統要打造健康台灣我跟各位比喻一下啦健康兩個字這麼簡單嗎健康不需要付出成本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12015.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12028.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那事實上,你不要顧賺錢啦,你不要顧上班啦,你身體健康的顧得好啦,都用嘴說的,這樣就健康了嗎?你可不可以跟各位說,叫那些顧健康的人,自己身體顧得好跟你們說? |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12031.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12059.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
所以健康是要付出成本的嘛對不對是當你勞動部增加預算的時候比往前年度增加預算的時候我有沒有聽到你們講出為什麼你比往前年度增加這些預算那你增加這些預算是要做什麼現在部長到任如果相關預算的增加有相關的正式對勞工有利對勞工是正面的我們被刪了我們被動了我們就應該去捍衛我們就該講得清清楚楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12060.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12085.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
怎麼人家以綠行政的預算增加了變胖了他就必須要該瘦身這樣會比較健康怎麼沒有聽到你們去做相關的應該去捍衛去表達你們要執行的這個預算的正當性而且不應該被草率的被刪被凍啊況且說被凍一定可以解凍誰說的算 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12087.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12094.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
誰說的算然後要你們提出相關的追加減你們不提出那你們的回應是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12095.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12121.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
當然透過互議是一個行政的各部會大家一起來不需要分辨別的在各個委員會來做這樣的事情處理但是另外一個反之當你真的有相關的政事你必須要去推動的時候你當然在委員會委員會是委員會主義啊你要去捍衛啊你要講啊你如果國民黨召委願意讓我們快速的排進我當然我這個部會我先來發動啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12122.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12133.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那蔣的委員你要不要負責?你要不要協助?你要不要處理?你要不要回到你們黨團?確定之後你才在這個委員會講說你們為什麼不送來?但我沒聽到你們肯定回應這個事情啊我沒聽到你們講這個慷慨啊我會覺得我們在地方聽到很多人民百姓看到預算被刪的如此的離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12151.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12167.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
看到昨天監察院的副院長以前親民黨重要的分子李鴻鈞副座都已經出來講了連監察院都已經動彈不得了甚至很多監察人員都必須從口袋掏錢出來才有辦法應付一般的相關事務啊都要出來講話啊都要遇到啊立法院是一個定制度的地方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12178.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12185.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但是一直在破壞制度這國家怎麼會正常立法院不正常 台灣怎麼會正常那我希望官員要正常一點吧官員要如何正常新北市在勞動部勞發署發生了霸凌的時候新北市的勞動局跑來勞發署要勞檢可以嗎可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12205.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12217.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
老花鼠怎麼回應老花鼠怎麼處理昨天台北市的勞動局跑來立法院勞檢某個委員的辦公室可以嗎當然有霸凌的事件當然有什麼樣奇怪的事件我覺得我樂觀其成但是勞檢完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12229.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12244.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
他到底要對誰做出相關的這些處分是針對立法院還是針對那個委員因為立法院的錢這個助理的薪資是從立法院撥下去的不然這兩件事情你簡單對我做一個回應好不好好 第一個事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12255.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12269.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我們沒有辦法接受把行政院預算的增加形容成胖子行政院為什麼他的預算的增加是因為這幾年我們的經濟成長包括稅收的增加也包括我們想要做的事情增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12270.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12290.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
包括剛剛在講到的健康台灣或者是想要照顧的人民相關的權益增加我們也覺得現在是有財政餘力來做這件事情才增加並不是只要增加就會形容成胖子就該瘦身沒有這件事情因為現在很多地方政府其實他們的預算也是增加的但並不會因為說你只要預算增加就一定必須被砍這個在剛剛的時候其實我有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12294.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12308.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這個預算的審查最重要的事情其實是要看科目你的三檢跟監督到底有沒有道理不是只要這個預算增加就必須要看我想這部分沒有辦法接受這是第一點第二點是關於剛剛委員說剛剛委員提到說這個相關的勞檢單位我們剛剛其實有說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12315.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12330.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我認為其實應該要在兼顧這個我們勞檢要執行的精神跟尊重立法院的這兩個目的之下我們願意來跟立法院討論這些相關的機制包括假設如果要做檢查的機制的話該怎麼進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12332.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12358.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
前面那段剛剛部長也有答覆我也有在主持我有聽到但是我還是覺得力道跟強度部長應該可以再加強這第一點那第二點我特別剛剛為引譽當時的新北市勞動局對勞發署發動這個勞檢然後昨天又有這個台北市的勞工局來對立院的這個國會辦公室來做勞檢基本上我們也在反對但是權責勒權責勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12362.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12384.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我要強調的是全職就像2016年2016年在立法院就發生讓議事人員不斷電的情況之下有過勞送醫的案例北市勞動局當時就到我們立法院來要做勞檢啊但是立法院議事人員說不適合啊不是用勞計劃嘛對不對好今天才七天假啦我也有聽到部長的講的一段話 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12385.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12411.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
畢竟你是行政院的議員所以當然主管機關是在內正部那你朝向可以正向的來做討論嘛這很好我們勞工有職安法那公務人員有什麼法2012年發生了一次我們在今年1月21號又發生了一次從凌晨5點24分的畫面各位可以看一下1月20號開會這全部都是公務人員我們未還我們未還這一組又是最後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12412.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12438.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
一定要等到那個五點應該是可能十二點就要stand by可能進早然後等到五點二十四分他們才可以等個議會時間ending完之後他們才可以離開然後離開完之後這已經組組幾個小時你可以看組組從一月二十二的十點開會到一月五點四十分休息然後一月二十一號的一點又馬上開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12439.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12464.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個中間沒有包含打卡沒有包含休息沒有包含事後的相關資料的準備事前的資料準備然後又馬上接續開會我覺得我覺得我要請部長啦齁因為因為我們我們整個算是完善但是公務人員他可能是他可能是什麼法律來來來做規範就是就是這一個呃公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12466.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12475.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
簡稱安慰法我們簡稱職安法安慰辦法對 但我們是法律嘛對 我們是職安法他們是辦法奇怪了 對公務員員怎麼是用這樣在處理部長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12477.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12500.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
現在確實是大家會有一些討論說公務員要不要適用治安法的問題在這個議題上面我們幾次的也跟考試院這邊去做確認確實現在考試院還是希望是來修訂他們的公務員保障法還有安慰辦法來去做公務員相關權益的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12500.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12525.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
目前他們還是是希望用他們的這些法治的體系來去保障那就勞動部的角度來說所以也是在這狀況之下但我們現在主要責任法的修訂包括職場霸凌的專章還是針對一般職場的勞工但是這段這幾個月的時間我們也持續的跟考試院這邊在做意見的交換尤其是一些針對包括霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12526.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12538.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
認定啊包括霸凌相關機制處理我們也跟他們持續在討論之中可是目前他們確實還是認為公務員有一套公務員自己的法規的體系所以他們還是修保障法跟安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12539.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12564.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我這邊有一個資料給部長做參考我是期待說就部長以處理七天假的角度看怎麼來協助這個事情保訓院現在在研裏要將安慰法提升為法的位階做得到做不到還是一件事情但是他們目前研裏的方向是未來的上級單位每年至少一次對下級進行職業安全衛生檢查我想站在你們的專業你覺得這樣有嚇阻作用嗎要對立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12567.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12595.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
然後找哪個上級來對這個立法院來做檢查他們可能指的比較不是立法院他們指的應該是政府各個機關或機構啦尤其是有上級機關的機關或機構我現在就比喻立法院開會這種情況在這種樣態的情況之下要怎麼處理說實話這部分當然我們還是要去跟考試院來做來做這部分要跟考試院做討論啦但是確實在立法院裡面其實並不是都是公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12597.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12620.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
就是立法院裡面其實也有是有些是一般的勞工是沒有錯沒有錯但是多數是公務員是對不對對按比例來講嘛對啊那我說因為現在考試院在修訂公園保障法跟安慰辦法過程其實他們有找我們跟他們持續的討論因為在職安衛的專業上面確實是在我們職安署這邊是有過去比較多這樣子的專業所以我們提供這樣的專業給他們去做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12623.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12638.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這個是請部長來協助另外可能要請部長趕快來做相關的因應我們自己的這個勞檢員有1033位的編制對不對但到目前為止好像一直空缺100多位就是一至兩成都沒辦法補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12640.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12660.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
這是主要什麼原因?就是我們現在安全衛生背景理工的同仁比較容易離職那在離職部分當然產業科技的發展確實需要比較高科技的人或是有專業的人所以我們一直希望說能夠讓檢查員能夠支持久任留用所以我們部長也特別支持我們目前希望從 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12662.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12680.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
改善我們的檢查方式用科技的方式來做監督檢查跟我們的同仁久任的部分可以鼓勵從不同面向來做展開啦是跟他們身先職執及那個職來的發展受限有沒有關係跟委員報告確實我們這一群大概一千多人所以就是從地方檢察機構檢察員科長到 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12683.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12708.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
檢察機構的處長到治安署可能組長、副署長到組長我們在這個圈子裡面就是這樣子所以民間的科技廠挖我們去當安全管理師、管理員機會就非常大但是我還認為說我們這是對企業有幫助、對事業有幫助的一個工作我們是期待說不管是成就上或者說是生意上我們再做更多的所以有沒有很大的改善空間嘛好比說爭取為正式的人員編制 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12709.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12723.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
還是怎樣去改善這樣的一個環境跟劉仁說我們其實也有希望盡量來跟人種來爭取括號人員的編制但是現在在我上任之後其實我們也提出一個勞檢人專業能力以及工作支持的提升方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12724.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12740.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那希望透過更多的智慧化或者是增加大家專業化的方式來支撐勞員勞檢讓勞檢人就以他的這個工作為榮那之前其實我們也爭取到其實每個月有5000塊或3000塊的這個風險的加急工作的加急那 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12741.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12765.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
沒有錯 現在勞警員的留任或我們只要想辦法留住他們的專業這部分還是有待改善的空間這也是為什麼我們要提出這些勞警員的支持方案因為我到部裡面發現其實勞警員其實要面對很多事業單位的壓力其實這也是他們為什麼其實常常容易想要離職或者想要轉職一個很重要的原因所以我們怎麼樣給他們尊嚴跟包括在專業上面去全力的支持他們這是我們非常重視的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12766.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12780.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我要特別提到這個勞檢人員並非是正式的公務人員他在勞檢的場域過程裡面在執行相關的業務有視瓦性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12783.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12795.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好來請署長報告其實我們有大部分的檢討員是高考特考分發那你講的聘用的部分大概是我們勞動條件檢查人大概有325個所以我們聘用條例聘用了但聘用的部分也是經過我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12797.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12816.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
訓練考核跟年度的考機的審核所以他們工作表現我們做比較上位一些瞭解所以我們當然希望這批的聘用檢查員他有聘用檢查員升到聘用視察的聘用專員的聘用視察我們連那個他升升現在這系列我們考慮到了所以我們現在反而是聘用檢查員的流動率沒有相對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12817.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12831.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
高太多但是專業的部分有能力的人一定會挖走這個其實是我們公務機關不是只有這個亞南園的這個會有這樣的情況其實很多公務機關專業人士很容易被民間挖走這是看起來是這整體面向的問題啦所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12833.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12855.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
但是我要跟委員說當然民間或者是產業都會有這樣人力的需求但我們部裡面還是會全力做的是把勞檢員的待遇包括專業跟支持提升我覺得這還是不管外界的犀利有多大但這部分我們還是會全力來做所以像人種繼續爭取嘛然後它的升遷然後它的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12855.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12877.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我想這個應該還是要請部長跟署長多費一點心思來看怎麼處理好不好是不是可以一個月內給我們一個你們要整體的這樣的改善提升的計畫把這些人可以好好的留住包圍起作用的計畫給我們做參考好謝謝主席好謝謝下一位我們請陳培宇委員來 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12893.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12895.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
謝謝主席有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12903.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12931.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好 部長文安辛苦了我快速跟部長討論一下在勞動部裡面跟兒少有關的相關權益那之前的麥當勞案我想我就不再贅述不過我們現在目前在現場看到的狀況是15歲到19歲的就業人口逼近10萬人我相信這個狀況應該會越來越多有許多的孩子之所以需要這麼早去打工很多時候都是因為他原生家庭的弱勢但是這個弱勢也好或者是因為他很年輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12932.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12959.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
或者是他不夠有的社會經驗導致於他們在現場工作的時候因為不熟悉相關的法規還有申訴的管道所以很多孩子們在現場受到的性騷性侵還有其他的案件其實都很難以求助而這個狀況其實越來越嚴重我們本來期望下一張我們本來期望在兒少法期將修法的時候我們可以把相關的權益寫得更清楚可是我們遺憾的看到衛福部目前給我們的版本是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12960.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12963.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
在兒少法裡面34、35、36跟兒少就業權益有關的他們決定刪除因為他們認為這個在勞動部的就業服務法還有職業訓練法裡面內容都是一致的因為服務的都是15到18歲的特定對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12979.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12996.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
認為勞動部已經提供相關服務所以衛福部說兒少法要刪掉可是我看到很多擔心的現象是除了這個我認為衛福部應該要積極找你們討論不知道部長你覺得怎麼樣你怎麼看這個狀態他們現在預告可能會是往這個方向走 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12998.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13021.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
當然 如果衛福部要找我們討論 我們很樂意跟他們討論因為我們其實之前有開過兒少全法的公聽會在公聽會上已經有很多學者專家還有很多機構的老師們說其實孩子們在現場打工所遇到的狀況可能不是只有勞動部可以協助的很多相關的權益其實還是跟衛福部有關所以我們辦公室之後會想要拜託勞動部跟衛福部跟我們一起來討論如果要刪 那勞動部這邊怎麼幫忙或者是不刪 我們怎麼樣加強一起協助兒少 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13027.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13055.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我想最終的目的還是希望兒少在打工相關的權益上面能夠得到確保所以但衛福部會怎麼在他們的法案在這他們主管的法案裡面去做修訂這部分那全都是在衛福部可是我們當然很願意跟委員辦公室這邊來去做配合針對達成剛才講那個最終目的的事情那看我們勞發署在相關的這個業務裡面可以來怎麼來協助好 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13055.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13064.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
謝謝部長那我們之後再來召開會議其實我必須要說勞動部現在的對於年輕人的協助其實是有的我們有相關的就業輔導那不過呢這個就業輔導計畫比較是針對就業前的媒合還有技能訓練這當然是非常重要的一環那不過務實的是在進入職場之後就是如同我剛剛說的因為權益受損或者是不知道去哪裡尋求支持還有協助所以呢這個部分我們也要拜託衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13083.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13104.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
不好意思 勞動部之後如何協助小孩好 我們來看另外一個其實在勞動部的跨部會勞動部跟教育部在衛福部其實從109年就開始成立一個跨部會的兒少職場安全衛生權益小組我們調了相關的會議記錄不過這個會議記錄是公開上網的一般人都查得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13105.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13132.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
會議記錄裡面呢從109年開始到目前為止一年只開兩次會而且那個會議記錄寫得越來越簡單因為都只是各個部會跨部會開會的時候把各自已經有做的事情丟出來說我們有做A我們做了B我們做了C各自說完之後就結束了其實比較沒有看到針對相關的個案進行討論或者是對那半年之中可能社會上發生了什麼樣的事情我們進行檢討我們覺得很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13135.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13154.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
部長你知道這個會議嗎我有聽說過這個會議但是因為我上任後應該還沒有開但我聽說可能是三月底的時候會再開一次對沒錯我們也算了一下時間應該是三月底會開喔所以我才今天特別來想要拜託部長可不可以把我們剛剛說的這些議題帶進去這個跨部會小組裡面討論一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13158.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13182.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我剛剛說的修法的問題跟衛福部討論關於兒少全法跟勞動部這邊怎麼配合另外就是兒少職場安全衛生權益小組裡面的功能我們認為可以再更加精進包含是不是把特殊的個案可以拿進去討論後續大家如何跨部會合作或者是就算沒有特殊個案但是我們所收集到的很多兒少在現場工作所遇到的困境如何透過輿情的系統回報給各個部會讓部長您帶到這個權益小組裡面去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13187.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13200.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我們都希望可以看到比較實質的推進跟進度這邊可不可以請部長簡單回應一下跟陳委員說我當然樂見這個在部裡面相關的小組的機制能夠有效所以讓這些相關的會議討論實質的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13203.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13225 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
然後實質的解決事情那我認為這當然我們是非常樂見其成的所以我會請這個我們的夜館單位來跟委員這邊請提供一些相關重要的議題那如果需要的話放到這個會議上面來做實質的討論或者是一些相關的言商這當然我們是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13225.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13244.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好 因為我們不會只有追勞動部這邊我們也會同步跟教育部跟衛福部確認如何在這個跨部會的小組裡面把實質的問題進行討論跟檢討好 以上謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長各位官員如果要用餐就請便接下來請楊議員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13257.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13261.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
謝謝主席 主席請一下洪部長來有請部長部長好部長我還是要先就年度預算讓你做個說明也跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13281.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13306.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
也跟廣泰的勞工朋友講講看到底這一次立法院的預算會造成勞動部在推動各項勞工政策會有什麼自然難行你們現在估出來的被刪減跟凍結的預算金額大概多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13307.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13336.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們大概總共就公務算的部分大概被總共大概被刪減了大概大概八千萬吧八千萬那那對 衛韓通案刪減是八千萬這不含通商的部分就個案就個案刪的部分是大概八千萬對統三是三趴沒有統三是業務費是統三三十趴對統動三十趴吧對 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13338.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13346.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
但是就是不含統棟或統山的部分總共是38000萬38000萬那山的這些預算會導致哪一些跟勞工權益 凍結是18億那可能會影響的勞工相關權益是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13365.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13391.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我們現在看到幾個部分第一個部分是其實因為一般行政的費用其實都被做了刪除所以其實整個部內的運作因為一般行政的費用包括刪除包括凍結都有所以如果沒有辦法快速的解凍的話其實已經會影響到部內的整體的行政的運作包括水電等等的都在下半年可能都會受到影響這是第一個第二個其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13393.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13398.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
包括我們剛才講到像我們剛才就業平等的這個相關的業務因為被刪了800動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13401.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13423.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
將近2000所以剛剛像講到像產檢價賠產檢價的相關的這些補助其實都會受到影響那也包括我們其實對於一些地方政府的就業中心就業服務佔據點其實我們透過業務費的方式做一些會做一些薪資上面的補助那這部分也因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13425.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13445.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
業務費被刪跟動所以這些救福人員的薪資的發放也會受到影響那這都影響到一般勞動的權益在地方除了勞動部自己的就業服務站以外你們還有對各縣市政府跟鄉鎮市都有提供補助就業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13446.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13474.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
就人員的薪資補助這部分也會被影響我想勞動部這邊也沒有什麼可以因應的唯一的方式就是盡可能的向委員做溝通希望該解凍的可以盡早解凍會不會影響到基金的撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13475.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13501.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
因為我們已經連續好幾年老保基金有做政府有做撥補嗎基金的撥補的部分比較是針對就是說財化法在去年12月通過後如果這個新的財化法要實施的話因為中央會被這個有3700多億那這個經費會移到地方去所以可能會有這些非法訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13502.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13530.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
推法定義務的支出在未來的預算編列上面就會受到影響那撥補當然就是其中的可能會受到影響的項目好所以不然我先說我在去年其實我有提過老保條例的修正案我當初是把撥補直接入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13531.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13555.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
就是基金的來源政府的撥補算是法定的收入來源可是後來因為行政部門有意見所以這個案我就把它撤掉了我現在重新問一次假如再提版本把政府撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13557.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13572.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
當作當作勞保基金的收入收入的來源入法啦就是把它明定在法律部長是贊成的還是反對的這部分我們尊重委員的提案然後我們願意跟委員來做討論因為我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13576.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13606.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
老闆每年這樣子在政府透過這麼龐大的金額在撥補都已經搖搖欲墜了假如說在因為財化法的修正會受到撥補金額會受到影響因為他法定支出跟非法定支出還是有差別的當然啦假如說是法定支出也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13608.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13627.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
後來由地方來因為錢到地方了嘛可能中央還是有一些中央原本負責的事項必須要由地方來負責這個才合理啦這個後續應該財劃法假如現在富裕案也已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13630.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13656.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
被補絕了後續假如說法律確定了以後錢跟權責總是必須要一致嘛不太可能說把錢給地方然後事情還是由中央來做所以就是說假如再重新提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13658.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13672.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
政府撥補當作當作勞保基金的法定收入部長應該是肯定的我們覺得我剛剛說尊重委員提案然後我們願意來跟委員這邊來討論部長我在問就是這個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13682.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13697.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
內政委員會也已經在討論國定假日那我覺得這個的起由大概都是因為勞工這七天假引發出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13699.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13725.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那台灣的工時其實相對於日本韓國大概也都比較高啦時間的關係所以我簡單講就是說假如因為勞基法有規定特休假假如我們是透過提高特休假來增加勞工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13727.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13743.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
的休假日而不是全國統一因為特休假有幾個好處就是第一勞工可以提高第一可以降低工時第二勞工可以自己選擇什麼時候要休 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13746.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13767.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
第三因為不是一致性的修所以對企業的運作比較小對於經濟的阻礙也比較小這個部長這麼贊成我們當然贊成我們當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13770.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13787.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
不過從勞動部的角度我們當然會在這個降低工時的角度來去思考這種可能的狀況那針對當然特休的特休假的議題是會有一些討論那我們願意來聽大家的聲音我現在就是提但是因為確實特休假要 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13787.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13813.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
要調整的話這涉及到要修法啦那所以這個我的意思就是說就是說假如說現在我們在討論國定假日最主要的起源是來自是來自砍了勞工原本的那這七天假才有那麼多委員提出國定假日的修法版本那是不是是不是從勞基法來修 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13815.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13840.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
提高特休假的天數這個對於整體國家的衝擊比較小這個會是社會討論的我們聽到各方討論的想法之一那我說因為這一波大家在討論國定假日的議題其實從勞動部的角度當然我們也覺得我們願意來正向的來參與這個事情的討論沒有我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13844.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13868.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
不然我這樣子問就是說你覺得直接用國定假日還給勞工這7天假的方式比較好還是我們單純7歐勞基法然後來提高特休假一樣想辦法把這7天補回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13871.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13876.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
這兩個途徑部長比較支持哪一個我都不會為難你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13880.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13907.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我認為這些做法當然大家現在討論我們都來聽大家的聲音好啦那我還是必須要做個結論啦我覺得從特休假來做處理會是對國家社會經濟衝擊最小然後同時又可以讓勞工自己選擇他要的假日然後企業也不會因為放假所以停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13908.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13934.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
所以我覺得我還是主張修勞基法提供給部長當作參考謝謝主席 謝謝部長好 謝謝接下來請高金素美委員來做詢問謝謝主席 有請部長來 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13938.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13965.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
部長沒關係你慢慢來喝口水在用您的用餐時間這是您擔任部長以來我們第一次在這邊做質詢那我今天的質詢很快的因為時間不多我要進入我的主題但這個主題不是很大的議題但是呢你一旦解決之後呢就能夠解決我們現在受到困境的勞工的問題好第一個問題我想問的是勞保局的人力不足的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13966.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13994.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
我們辦公室其實接到了非常多不管是原住民也好漢族朋友也好的勞工朋友來投訴他說遇到了職災要打電話給我們的勞保局要確認申請的事宜電話怎麼打都打不進去有些人打了一個禮拜有些人打了大概半個月才接通那這樣的狀況呢我知道我們勞保局同仁也是非常的無奈即使增派了工讀生來增加了協助但是可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13995.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13997.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
可是還沒有辦法解決問題 請問部長怎麼解決你有掌握現在的現況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14001.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14029.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
委員好非常謝謝委員關心的確勞保局因為之前我們在給付的案量上大增所以在人力上面已經民眾要詢問的電話量比較多在這一部分的話因為隨著案量慢慢比較趨緩所以最近我們在接通剛才提到的民眾要打電話部分的話已經有做了一些改善那委員提到的我們一定會特別再留意沒有趨緩喔如果有趨緩的話我們辦公室還不會接到這麼多的投訴部長您了解一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14033.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14054.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
因為我知道你來自基層這個問題不是很大很小只是接通電話的問題然後因為如果說你沒有接到電話一個禮拜15天其實對最辛苦的勞工因為辛苦的勞工大概家裡面一個人一個人做事可能就要養全家他一旦發生的事情的時候呢後續就很很大的問題好這個問題什麼時候能夠解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14058.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14087.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們看可不可以兩週討論一下好 兩週討論之下那第二個問題也很快勞保局在處理職災申請的作業程序還有它的期限明顯變得很長我剛剛講過一人職災全家就受災許非常多的勞工背負養家活口的重責大任部長應該比我更清楚他遇到職災的時候他就沒有辦法工作然後家庭就陷入了非常大的困頓然後日後還要碰到什麼治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14088.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14108.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
復健費用他不僅僅是這個沒有了工作沒有薪水還有復健還有所謂的治療的工作我知道講到這個部長您可能會告訴我說其實呢我們勞動部有相關的規定是可以保障勞工的權益像是他可以申請職災傷病給付對吧但是部長您知道嗎實務上面從發生職災到勞保局認定職災的相關補償的給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14118.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14119.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
這需要花費多久的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14123.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14124.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
有快一點的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14153.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14174.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
據我的了解所以你希望是縮短20天還是多少我們一定會把這個時間能夠盡快讓他能夠好我要在部長您知道他的回答了有幾個問題因為一定是有一個SOP嘛對不對那這個SOP呢當我們勞保局受理勞工的傷病給付申請之後呢醫生會 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14176.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14200.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
病例的審查然後這是因果關係因為我們的勞保局他要認定是不是可以成立所謂的職災的程序這要耗費很長的時間你剛剛聽到了他說前面因為COVID-19可是COVID-19只是一個藉口當然事實上現在要認定這個是非常耗費時間的這也是人力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14201.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14219.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
所以請問一下部長你要怎麼樣來趕快解決這個SOP然後把時間把它縮短跟文說沒有其實對面有兩個層次的問題第一個層次還是當然還是跟人力的資源有關這是一個第二個其實我們近這段時間其實也一直在檢討就是包括假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14220.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14237.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
怎麼樣如何更以職災勞工為核心在友善職災勞工的前提之下重新來設計其實我們可以協助職災勞工相關的措施跟流程這事情其實我們也在檢討中那我們最近其實也找了一些專家找了一些學者在討論這件事情請問什麼時候會解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14240.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14255.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
可能還需要一點時間因為快速好不好不知道為什麼因為辛苦的勞工不能等當他一旦家裡發生的狀況之後後面還有那麼多的事情要處理那不是雪上加霜了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14255.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14279.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
是因為我們現在在規劃包括他的通報的流程包括他可能申請給付等等等相關的問題我們希望這個流程你從接電話開始就一直到你的審核認定為自災認定到這個勞工他可以接受到這樣子的一個付款跟資源你大概要花多久的時間我覺得我們來盡量來討論盡量是多少好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14280.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14291.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我可能現在沒有我可能因為這真的現在還在跟專家學的討論中因為我們其實也最近也辦了相關的工作坊來找專家學者包括第一線的食物工作者來討論這個問題我知道這對您來講時間是需要討論的但是我剛剛一直講到尤其是港口的勞工朋友他不能等所以希望您來自於基層 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14304.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14319.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
希望你來自於經常替勞工界的朋友來爭取他應該要的權益這個如果一旦解決馬上可以解決大概一代半港口郎馬上面臨到的問題我們把時間縮短好不好我給你三個月的時間可不可以三個月應該是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14319.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14344.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
可以吧 好不好好 三個月 最後我要再一次提醒部長不論是我們勞保局的電話讓勞工打不進去還是勞保局在受理各項的申請進度比較慢這兩個核心問題我再提醒你就是因為人力不足我相信捍衛基層權益的部長你一定苦鳴所苦可以知道勞工朋友的辛苦但是呢我希望你能夠跟人種來爭取緣額 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14347.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14358.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
然後才能夠讓我們的人力順利的進行讓我們的基層勞工得到應該要有的權益跟保障好不好三個月我會繼續在這邊追蹤您喔謝謝好謝謝接下來請陳昭芝委員來做選答謝謝主席麻煩部長來有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14382.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14386.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
不久前是剛過完國際婦女節所以我想跟您討論一下女性勞參率的議題請問部長您看這個圖紅色是我們台灣的縣為什麼我國女性的勞參率在30歲以後會節節下降比起其他國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14404.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14427.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
你有沒有一個基本的可能因為生育或者是遇到可能進到要照顧家庭的階段其他的國家就不需要嗎其他國家也有但是我們確實看到其他國家它是呈現一個雙峰的狀況就是說部長你這件事也要放在心上因為其他國家當然台灣也許我們婦女也要鼓勵大家來生育但是現在事實上生育率已經偏低情況下這個狀況還具體存在那您在這個國際婦女節當天你有宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14433.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14460.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
為了落實性別平等共同負擔育兒責任所以你們有考慮要這個就業保險法要考慮修法對不對要延長育嬰留職停薪這個的津貼給付這個政策方向本一定全力支持也謝謝部長但是如果要提高這個女性的勞參率除了在經濟上給予援助之外那是不是也要盡力在消除職場上的這個性別歧視部長你同意嗎當然好 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14462.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14477.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我們來看看,很遺憾,貴黨的大總召,前天就赤裸裸的示範了在職場上所謂的性別歧視他竟然說人家叫你盧媽媽,那你就該回歸家庭主婦,你認同這句話嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14482.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14498.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這個跟文說明我想從當務的工作來說是就是說我們的工作的重點應該是如果對於媽媽我們要怎麼樣支持就算當了媽媽就算當了媽媽還是可以好好的在職場工作你對於這種殺文主義殺豬言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14500.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14517.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
變得這麼軟弱這麼溫柔的呼籲你當立委的時候我提醒你一下2023年民眾黨有一位市議員候選人他的造勢活動他邀請專業舞者來造勢應援那這些舞者他身穿的空服員的制服民進黨竟然黨團這個大動作召開記者會來罵人 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14521.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14526.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
當時你還跟著說民眾黨毫無性別意識消費性別科本的印象當時無法想像這個政黨有什麼資格來談性別平等他們心中的女性還有主體性可言嗎部長你當時對這個職場的性別歧視你是非常的憤慨喔那現在你是勞動部長啊怎麼變這麼溫柔講不出話來啊還是碰到你們大總召就這樣所以我剛才跟陳委員說明說從勞動部工作來說我們是要來協助即便 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14550.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14559.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
你當了媽媽怎麼樣能夠兼顧你的職場跟你的家庭的照顧這是勞動部的工作我跟妳講現在每個部會都在說沒宣媒體宣傳費被窮窮說被我們刪光了那我現在給妳一個機會妳來宣揚這個職場性別平等妳來批評我跟妳保證妳批評柯總統的力道越大妳的宣傳效果會越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14574.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14576.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我現在給你一點時間 你只要講幾句話抵了上幾百萬的宣傳費 麻煩你講一下我台詞都替你想好了 你罵民眾的話就是把主持換成柯總章麻煩你講一遍 我直接借給你陳委員 部會的宣傳效果要好不是只是靠罵誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14597.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14617.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
這個活生生的例子在立法院出現,你講他幾句有問題嗎?你當時怎麼批評別人?雙標了所以我說,從勞動部的角度,我們的工作是協助當了媽媽以後,我們怎麼樣能夠兼顧在職場上面就有一個權利,這部分是我們的工作好啦好啦,我知道你說不出來啦,雙標啦梅軒不是用來罵人的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14622.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14625.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這是個事實我沒有叫你講不確實的話這句話就不對啦你要叫人家回家不要上班那天你在上媒體專訪看到你自己一百天的表現你十分給自己七分嘛表示你自己也覺得有進步的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14638.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14655.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那雖然你是因為802臨危受命但是因為我認為很多勞工對你有很深的期待為什麼因為你自己是社運街頭出身應該是更能體會基層的辛苦那你上任這一百天以來好像已經不是第一次被勞工團體說找不到人去年學位勞團在勞動部的這個地方絕食希望你能夠接見傾聽訴求結果等不到你部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14665.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14681.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
最近勞團喊要降低工時,鎮定國定加熱訴求,好像你也是以獨不悔啦!所以不像你做官了,你把以前的戰友一腳踢開,這樣也不對啊!你要面對面溝通啊!跟陳遠說明齁,我們其實在,我們其實前面說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14682.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14695.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
關於證明國人家議題我們其實在這段時間裡面我們都持續的跟相關部會包括跟行政院在交換意見在傳達相關勞工的心聲這部分我們都有持續的在做那對於這個議題它的法規主管機關不是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14703.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14721.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
他法會主管機關是在內政部但我們是願意正向的參與這件事情的討論法會法嘛 情理上你要怎麼對待這些基層勞工嘛部長那另外部長你以前待過環團你應該知道每年的世界地球日有一個總統會跟接近環團聽取他們的建言那個叫做環團與總統有約 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14723.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14740.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這個活動已經持續21年了跨越藍綠執政的時期那團團也覺得很好這是一個很棒的平台能夠跟總統直接面對面來做一些溝通那本席建議既然你是社運團體出身你不妨也跟賴總統建議你建立一個勞團與總統有約 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14744.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14749.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
雖然總統很忙但是每年有一次有個時間讓勞團跟總統見面讓總統有機會接見勞工聽取他們的聲音你覺得這個意見如何 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14757.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14786.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
謝謝陳委員的建議我覺得看怎麼樣來增加其實跟勞工團體的討論跟溝通我覺得這些建議都是好的那事實上這段時間我們其實我自己的上任之後其實也跟很多工會團體持續的在做很多的討論跟諮詢最重要你自己是等於是勞運出身嘛這個是那你要隨時就是說幫他們勞工的立場我想你當時臨危受命也應該是你過去的背景嘛所以我希望部長你不要讓勞團找不到你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14786.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14793.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
就是說不能當部長就不理你過去的戰友我們持續都要跟很多勞團在做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14797.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14815.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我知道下面我這個問題是因為很多人都關心過了之前的這個來質詢的委員就業安定基金的使用所以我知道你有回答說這個到底你們自己統計的部分明目不符合就業安定基金的部分還有你這個追查這個錢怎麼追回來這個進度等等我聽到你有回答其他委員說願意把這個資料給他們對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14822.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14836.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
這樣沒有錯就是在審計部的相關的報告跟認定出來以後那我們是很願意把我們的回覆提供給你知道這件事因為你必須好好做的理由是這一次很多在野黨的立委為什麼會勘緊荷包的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14838.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14857.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
就是過去被亂用被濫用服用所以這是個事實還有人被收押禁建所以基本上就是說這件事情我覺得你當然要概括承受所以就是說我們要了解這個禁建陳董我跟你說明也因為我們很重視這件事情所以我們才用機制面來提出強化救安基金把關的整體的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14859.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14869.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
對未來就我們要全力的避免什麼拿來做軌道燈啊那這些事情我們都會全力的避免用機制的方式來避免部長就業安定金的預算你看本席原來有11個提案那我非常注重這件事因為大家在看就業安定金怎麼用那第一點就是如何確保它不被濫用那這個部分因為您親自到辦公室來說明你有答應說要用在第一線要用在服務人民的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14886.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14892.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
直接服務勞動的業務那我買單啊我買單這個你說我買單那第二個我有告訴過你說大幅增加的預算你要做清楚的說明你的計畫是什麼你要怎麼用對不對那這個部分前幾天勞動部來到辦公室跟我們溝通我們也都接受了所以11條有11個提案我全部按照勞動部的建議去簽名了謝謝陳委員我要跟您談就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14913.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14926.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
現在監督行政部門本來就是我們立委的責任執政黨要好好溝通承諾說我要好好做事把資料清楚的呈現出來不要動輒抹黑在野黨好嗎恐嚇說人民說福利會不見啊會怎麼樣啊就是我也希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14932.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14942.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
大家不要因為這樣不溝通然後抹黑然後行政跟立法對立這樣好嗎有11個提案我現在都簽了我們非常非常願意跟這個朝野黨團的委員溝通我們非常願意但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14949.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14976.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
如果有些相關的作為其實對於人民的福利或人民受到照顧的狀況會受到影響某個部分我們還是必須讓社會知道我就是要溝通嘛以前增加很多要講清楚過去大家都是因為過去的做法有疑慮所以這次我們把關就會緊嘛那你就是做一些改變或計畫那大家就買單了我說這是一個很好的例子啊行政跟立法不一定要是對立的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14976.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14983.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
當然但是各有其責嘛當然所以我就把這個事情做好好嗎好謝謝好謝謝部長好謝謝主席好謝謝陳委員謝謝部長那接下來請劉巡庭委員來做詢問部長我們等一下投影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15010.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15014.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
好 謝謝主席 洪部長有請來 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15021.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15045.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
你委員好部長 吳安 辛苦了這個很多委員今天在勞動部的業務報告裡面質詢都提到台灣工時過長的問題嘛那部長知不知道這個兩天前內政委員會我們在做這個節日紀念日實施這個條例的審查的時候劉世芳部長講說還我七天假是特定團體綁架勞工的假議題您認同這樣的說法嗎我沒有特別看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15049.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15066.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
你沒有特別看到你的次長也在旁邊啦這個你們要好好跟進一下這個題目因為雖然他是內政部主責這之前前一個會期本席在那邊質詢的時候你講說你要尊重主管機關這我當然理解但這個畢竟跟勞工的權益是有關的我希望部長回去了解一下這件事情啦那你現在聽到我是如實轉述喔你覺得這樣說法妥當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15069.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15084.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我想應該是說作為行政部門比較是希望說我們在這個制度面的討論那怎麼樣子在一個公平性一致性的一些原則下面好好討論我猜因為我對不起我真的是沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15086.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15108.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這個訊息啦剛剛也有很多委員提醒你因為你曾經也跟這個社運界嘛跟很多的團體其實都有很好的關係嘛你也曾經幫他們講話那我今天就不在這個題目上再多逼問你了但是請你好好瞭解因為我認為這樣子的說法對很多的勞工團體特別是現在都還在積極爭取要讓勞工工時下降的這些團體來講這樣的說法是非常非常不公平的是讓人家非常傷心的請部長好好瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15109.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15126.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那我就再問啦那這個現在大家在談節日與紀念日實施條例這個修正當然其實到最後就要進入深水區也就是說如果增加國定假日要增加幾天那剛剛委員有幾位委員都有問到這個問題你講說用什麼開放的態度來討論正向積極的角度來面對你有沒有更具體的一點說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15129.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15140.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我還是要說明因為關於國定假日的相關的制度的法規主管機關是在內政部但這段時間當然有在行政部門跨部門裡面有相關的討論我們也願意參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15141.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15164.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那所以從勞動部的立場跟角度來說我們覺得當然如果通盤的考慮包括各個領域的一些工作包括工商的情境那尤其是勞工的需求的狀況之下那我們認為國定假日的調整這個議題從勞動部的角度我們認為有正向討論的空間叫正向討論的空間部長你知不知道內政部長那時候講說不會有院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15165.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15193.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
就這個條例不會有院版你知道這個事嗎已經確定了嗎因為你剛剛回答前面委員的時候你講說你們內部有在做溝通不是但他講的應該是要不要立法這件事情對啊但因為國定價格的討論裡面一個事情是國定價格要不要調整跟另外一個是這個相關的制度要不要所以你覺得要不要立法要不要立法那因為這個立法法規的主管機關在尊重內政部那這個關於立法的形式或法規規範的形式的部分現在立法這部分我們尊重內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15193.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15217.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
現在立法的流程已經在進行,你從勞動部主管機關的立場啦,就是幫勞工講話的立場,你覺得應該剩下幾天,多大?我想天數的部分還是一樣,我覺得這部分是...剩下該放的立場?對。部長,剛剛我聽了楊耀委員的質詢其實很有感,就是說到底要放國定假日放七天,還是特休放七天,其實你站...我已經提醒你好幾次了,你站在勞動部的主管機關立場,你當然講都好,只要能夠降低工時都好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15218.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15240.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
當然你站在...站在勞動部部長的本位你本來就應該要幫勞工講話最後的決定當然是你們行政團隊要討論這我願意尊重但如果連主管的勞動部站在勞工的立場講話都不敢大聲講出來這樣的聲音的時候那我們真的很懷疑喔我們現在民進黨政府到底有沒有心要解決工時的問題啦來剛剛楊耀文講特休其實我今天想要討論一下這件事情喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15240.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15265.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以我們算這個年度總工時台灣當然是所謂的過勞之島但工時其實有分所謂的制度工時跟實際工時實際工時當然含加班等等實際狀況在內那個就超過2000小時很多委員提我就不再提了我們今天在討論的叫做制度工時的狀況因為它跟特休假的安排是有關係的按照勞動基準法57條所謂勞動工作的年資是要以同一事業為限那麼決定特休假能夠有幾天其實跟勞工的年資是掛鉤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15267.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15291.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
那以實務上你這個統計結果112年行政院主計總署事業人力雇傭狀況調查統計結果來綜合分析其實台灣有93.2%的勞工啊服務的年資是在10年以下的為什麼呢因為大部分勞工是中小企業嘛中小企業的雖然這樣講有一點點難過啦但中小企業的平均壽命其實並沒有非常的長這個換言之我們現在對特休假制度的一個設計啊如果真的能夠達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15293.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15319.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
達到一年有30天的特休你要有30年的年資嘛這幾乎是鳳毛麟角大部分的勞工93.2其實都只有10年以下的年資換言之其實實務上台灣勞工實務的特休假大概頂了天大概就15天啦所以按照這樣子的一個比較基準如果我們要跟日本韓國跟新加坡比起來的話其實你可以看到你看後面好像台灣的特休是最多的啊對不對你看我們到30天其他國家都沒有到30天但是實務上是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15321.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15346.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
93.2%其實要看圖表的左半邊我們這個左半邊的數字好看嗎其實是不好看的年度總工時也是一樣看起來年次越長總工時會降下來但是其實前面我們數字不好看的地方才是93.2%主流勞工現在的待遇我為什麼今天要去提這個我當然希望勞動部這邊也針對勞動基準法的修正去增加特休假但第一個我們現在不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15346.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15370.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
國定假日的法案或者是特休的法案我們都沒有看到院版嘛這第一個第二個即便你現在在勞動計算法這邊去規範特休假的增加你怎麼樣跨越年資的問題現在都沒有辦法所以為什麼我們要回頭去修這個國定假日的法案為什麼我們講要立法就是因為它可以立刻降低叫做制度工時嘛我加了七天的國定假日我的制度工時就是會降低七天的這個工時嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15371.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15397.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
另外也是因為國定假日它是有社會的集約的反應嘛社會集體放假它也比較容易帶動實際工時的下降所以我必須要講現在大家要去討論修訂這個紀念日與節日實施條例基本上就是因為它又快又準嘛這個圖表告訴你如果加上了七天假我把七天假還給勞工之後你的93.2%的這個區間你的制度年總工時就跟日韓是差不多的水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15398.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15417.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
換言之我們把七天假還給勞工我們也不會因為這樣就比日韓放更多的假頂多跟他差不多而已但是這樣子的一個放假是93.2%的勞工大部分的勞工可以立刻享受到的這個是修特休的盲點但本席完全不反對你們在特休方面也天才家夥因為台灣是過勞之島是一個事實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15417.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15437.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
我們希望看到的是多重的討論但我也要很遺憾的點出一個現實也就是說不管特休也好 國定假日也好行政端裹足不前我們現在去選擇修國定假日是因為那速度快而且馬上有效所以我希望部長不要再只是開放正向的態度經過這樣子的討論之後你要不要再積極一點 再具體一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15438.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15453.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
最後我想其實這段時間跟其他部會在這個議題在國定價值議題上面的討論我們都是都是非常非常樂意一起參與討論的我們從來沒有覺得這是別人的事情但是確實主管是在別的部會所以我們是願意參與討論的我們也積極的參與這些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15457.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15477.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
那要不要讓他調整讓台灣的總工時稍微降下來一點自主工時降下來一點從勞動部的角度當然都會希望這工時的部分是能夠再降低的我們從勞動部的角度當然是希望再降低的那所以剛才說因為現在討論國定假日的議題的時候我說從勞動部的立場來說我們認為這是有正向討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15481.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15498.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
好吧 反正這個題目才剛開始那我也提醒部長很多過去時代在街頭上面的戰友是很期待政府有積極作為的他們很快又會在街頭上面集結希望勞動部做好準備我還是不厭其煩的再次提醒你就要站在勞動部的本位 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15498.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15518.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
去大力的支持勞工這個才是台灣人民會想要看到的好不好勞動部當然是要站在勞工的立場這個當然是要站在勞工的立場還只是正當積極的態度是蠻可惜的啦包括跟相關部會的討論我們當然都是站在勞工的立場好 謝謝啦好 謝謝接下來請張雅琳委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15529.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15538.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
謝謝主席 有請勞動部長請紅部長不好意思 我們等一下投影片張委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15544.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15568.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
好沒關係我先開始好了部長想要請教一下就是其實從去年的這個勞動部的無性公務員因長期的職場壓力輕生之後呢那時候其實有揭露了非常非常多的事實也引發了非常多公務員在這個職場上面遇到一些霸凌的問題那其實有非常多的投訴啦所以到現在其實已經四個月了我想針對這件事情再做一些積極的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15570.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15597.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那就是說其實在上個月其實部長當時有公布一個叫做執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的一個公告就是希望可以去強化僱主對於職場霸凌的一個防治責任來保障我們勞工的身心健康那在這個指引通過之後下一個階段應該就是要在職安法增訂這個防治霸凌的專章那我想要請教一下目前有沒有一個時程表 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15598.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15620.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
我們在職場辦專章因為已經開了三次的跟專家學的討論以後現在在法條上面的擬定其實已經進到收尾的階段那我自己是希望說我們趕快在這個法條上面的草案確定以後就可以盡快的來預告那有沒有一個大概的時程呢我是希望盡快盡快對大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15621.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15650.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
多久 可能幾個禮拜內吧幾個禮拜內 OK好那就是說 因為其實這部分啦就是非常非常多人關心所以也希望就是說收集大家意見的時候我們可以在一個月之後可以看到一個相關的版本所以我們預告之後然後我會送到行政院來做審議然後希望趕快就送到立法院裡面我們目標還是在這會期送進立法院好 謝謝那我也想要提醒洪部長一件事情我這好像沒有辦法按 幫我按下一頁好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15652.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15681.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
我想提醒部長一件事情就是霸凌的定義其實在教育部的時候他101年有制定一個校園霸凌防制準則那可是因為後來其實也發生了許多網路霸凌的事件像是104年的Cindy事件然後當年其實統計校園遭受霸凌大概有五萬五千名學生所以當時大家朝野立委都認為我們應該訂定一個防止霸凌專法但是教育部有提醒一件事情就是說霸凌的形態其實是持續的在改變所以不要用專法來制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15682.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15692.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
避免到時候可能會有一些樣態是沒有辦法使用這個霸凌的定義所以他們後來是使用這個防治準則那這次新修正的指引的職場霸凌的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15694.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15717.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
是這樣寫的 勞工與執行職務在勞動場所中受同仁主管部署藉由職務權利濫用或不公平對待所造成的持續性的冒犯威脅冷落孤立或侮辱行為使受害勞工感到受挫被羞辱被威脅被孤立及受傷危害其身心健康跟安全提出了七種樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15719.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15745.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
但是呢這七種樣態出來之後其實外界也是有持續發出一些聲音那我這邊整理一下主要的爭議就是來自於說到底什麼叫做持續性好 勞動不定的持續性跟權力濫用可是實務判斷上我們如何認定呢什麼樣的程度的言行是構成了權力濫用那這些可能有高度的主觀性可能會有認定上的困難第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15747.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15768.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
被霸凌者其實往往舉證非常的困難尤其是言語霸凌啦心靈霸凌等等的可能缺乏具體的證據或者是沒有第三人在場的情況之下那我們雖然有一些申訴管道但是不是能夠有效的保護申訴者不被報復那這才是一個疑慮啦第三個部分就是我們把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15770.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15785.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
霸凌的行為者呢擴大到主管同事之間的多種主體可是如果實務上如果這個霸凌來自於客戶或是服務對象的話雇主可能很難直接的控制或干預那這就會有規則歸屬的一個很模糊的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15786.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15803.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
所以我在想是不是也可以把相關的意見再做一些收集那也可以讓我們知道說這個法律的定義上面要怎麼來處理因為這可能就會連動到未來公務人員防止霸凌防治的一個法律意涵所以這部分是不是可以請勞動部再做更仔細的釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15803.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15820.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
好跟張委員說明確實比方說因為從很多實務上面來看比方說確實我們在國際上面會看到有些他會要會強調說要有所謂的持續性那當然持續性怎麼認定或者是在持續性這個問題上面有沒有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15822.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15840.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
比較開放性的討論的空間那這部分其實我們在我們自己的專章裡面我們都有做相關的思考但是你現在裡面講到的一些問題包括標準認定的問題其實我們自己也參考了一些國際的法律確實對職場霸凌的認定都 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15845.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15871.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
大家都有表達這個認定上面好像不容易好像某個做法就能夠切得一乾二淨就在國際上面都是這樣子的討論所以都有這個狀況可是我們盡量的把這些東西納入我們在我們法治工作裡面的考慮這樣子那其實在第二個問題我是想要來問一下部長你有聽過三明治世代嗎你知道什麼是三明治世代嗎知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15871.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15888.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
你可以大概講一下三明治世代是什麼嗎就是這中間可能夾在要顧老又顧小沒錯就是其實我就是所謂的三明治世代啦我上面有長輩下面有小孩嘛那其實我們常常會遇到一個現實的問題就是小孩生病長輩生病的時候到底我們應該如何的去選 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15889.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15905.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
如何的在工作跟職場上面去做一個平衡所以如果國家可以支持我們的話讓家長可以安心的去請這個家庭照顧假的話其實就是可以更支持我們女性不要因為經濟收入可能普遍比男性來的低而成為最後必須要請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15907.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15925.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
來去支援照顧育兒或是顧長輩的一個犧牲角色那其實民間團體這幾年一直有來倡議就是說希望勞工的家庭工作假可以比照公務員有7天的有薪假那我不曉得多我不曉得說部長您的看法我其實有算過大概一年是740億啦您的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15927.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15936.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
確實我們在評估如果這個家庭照顧假要有薪的話每一天可能是會是上百億的狀況所以7天的話可能會是700多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15937.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15958.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
700多億對那目前的話是規劃下一步是要怎麼來有算過嗎那我其實跟張委員說明就是說因為剛才在講到像照顧不離職這樣子的目標但是我覺得我們整體的這個目標那關於家庭照顧價的強化這是做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15959.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15974.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
就大家提議的做法之一那可是這些相關的做法當然會牽涉到財源跟財政的問題尤其是在現在財務法的修訂之後中央其實可以整體調度的財源又比過去來的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15975.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15995.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
那剛剛在你的投影片裡面有講到說這個今年的這個稅劇剩餘的部分可是因為稅劇剩餘並不是每年都一定會有的可是如果今天我要把它變成是一個制度性的制度的話他應該會是要每年都會有持續性的裁員而沒有辦法只是說今年看起來稅劇剩餘比較多所以就可以拿來補可是明年如果沒有稅劇剩餘就沒辦法補 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15996.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16017.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
可能就不會是這個狀況所以我們基本上目前還是希望比方透過休假的制度或者是留庭的制度怎麼樣讓它更彈性更好用的方式來去兼顧也不只是女性啦照顧家庭跟職場需求上面的平衡那這部分我們還在研擬之中那應該希望盡快的可以來跟大家來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16019.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16035.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
所以目前就是在架上面去做一些調整或者是留庭的做法留庭的做法上面其實怎麼樣更有彈性可以更靈活更能夠兼顧大家實際上面的需求所以就在育嬰留庭上面可能還會有一些調整的空間就對了我們認為是有空間好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請黃婕委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16048.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16049.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好謝謝主席我們請紅部長來有請部長黃維好 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16056.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16059.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
好部長時間短短的我先來關心這個產價跟賠產價的狀況因為我真的是很擔心啊其實從去年年底大家在討論總預算的時候我就已經不斷的在說哇這樣子預算砍下去到底會不會影響你們補助產價跟這個呃賠產價的補助那我就我所知其實勞動部也是很願意照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16080.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16099.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這個就是要願意來請產假跟陪產假的人嘛就是如果有請假的話你們是七天你們是願意補助兩天的所以在這個預算被砍之後到底會受到什麼實質的影響可不可以在部長這邊明確的跟勞工們說那這個是我現在最擔心的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16100.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16115.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
因為在現在是在就業平等業務這個項目裡面在1月的預算審查裡面被砍了800萬然後被動了兩成在將近2000萬加起來可能是在那個項目裡面將近三成那關於產價賠償減價我們的獎勵補助其實是在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16118.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16141.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
大概比例是非常高的可能八九成都是在這個項目裡面所以按照這個刪減跟凍結的狀況勢必會影響產價跟培安減價我們蔣補助的發放這當然就影響到很多新手爸媽的權益所以這是我們覺得比較遺憾的事情好我問一個比較明確的就是現在這個預算砍下去我們大概只能發到幾月 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16143.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16160.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
應該是下半年吧下半年那也就是說下半年的新手爸媽想要來使用這個補助很可能就請不到了是這樣嗎就是這個刪減跟凍結的狀況我們認為如果這個到下半年可能就會有補助上面會用完的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16161.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16173.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
好這就是我最擔心的我很擔心說到今年下半年新手爸媽就失去了這一項福利那如果啦真的下半年預算沒有被解凍那我們勞動部打算怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16177.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16199.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
我們還是希望能夠想盡辦法來協助可是這當然都會是權力上面的影響這是為什麼我們很期待之前的復議的原因但是恐怕還是會有一些權力會受到影響但是這部分因應我們當然部內還要再做一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16201.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16223.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
好 謝謝部長 這個是我真的很擔心啦今年下半年新手爸媽的權益就要被影響了所以我在這邊一定要來幫新手爸媽來發聲那當然我會認為說這一波的預算砍下去不只是對勞工很傷 對資方也很傷簡直就是勞資雙輸 損人不利己那這樣的砍預算到底有什麼意義呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16224.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16239.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
那最後一點時間我來請教一下這個麥當勞案的後續啊因為其實這個案子大家也非常的關注那就我所知去年底這個麥當勞的性侵案發生之後台北市勞動局有去調查然後呢最後對麥當勞是裁罰了一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16241.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16262.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那原因是因為這個麥當勞沒有進到性別平等工作法裡面的要求就是說雇主在知道有性騷擾情形的時候並沒有及時的採取有效的糾正以及補救的措施那甚至我認為有一點令人遺憾而且非常氣憤的是直到這個事件就是這個受害者他 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16263.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16291.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
自殺之後事件爆發之後麥當勞才出來說要帶這個諮商心理師來關心受害者的家屬那這種時候的關心都已經於事無補了都為時已晚了所以我認為這個職場上面的性騷擾的防治還有這個相關的職場的指引是不是可以再加強即便是麥當勞這麼大的公司耶這麼大的公司我認為他們相關的資能也非常的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16292.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16320.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
其實在這個事件之後我想大家其實看了都都會都很傷心那我們當然現在台北市政府其實是有做出相關的裁法但我們也會來做出針對像性供針對性供法這個職場的性騷擾的問題或者是職場性騷擾的問題來的防治來做專案的勞檢這部分其實我們的勞檢單位其實針對這個主題我們會特別來做那也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16320.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16333.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
接下來其實可能有一些比例我們也希望能夠邀請一些專家能夠陪同來做勞檢因為這個跟性平的議題有關的其實是需要一些專家在現場其實來看我們的防治的作為會不會有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16334.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16351.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
好謝謝部長說明最後因為我知道說現在勞動部是不是針對那個職場上面的性騷以及性別相關的一些輔導有一些補助那這可不可以讓大家知道說這個是如何來補助企業做這方面的智能培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16352.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16377.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
好那我們跟委員報告那針對這個我們NGO的部分我們大概有起了一個計畫我們希望說透過我們除了自己勞動部辦訓以外有其他的NGO能夠幫我們協助深入各個我們看不到的一些角落那這個部分的話大概整個的那個相關的補助我們申請是受理到4月然後我們後面會跟這些NGO團體一起來共同推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16377.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16398.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
好那我知道說你們平常可能宣傳也宣傳相關的預算可能也有被砍到所以被砍了所以我在這邊幫你們宣傳啦我認為這是一個很好的政策這個相關的防治措施那你們既然願意提供那就讓職場上各種企業都多多來申請那大家一起來提升性別意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16399.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16418.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
老人部也很需要這些第三部門一起來協助因為關於職場的性騷擾或性侵害相關的防治其實是很需要公司一起來協力的所以我們很樂意提供這些相關的資源來去協助民間的組織一起跟我們合作我想我們是用這個精神在規劃這樣的資源好 謝謝部長的說明 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請李坤城委員來做選答 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16438.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16467.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
好謝謝主席我們請洪部長先喝口水再上來請部長各位好部長好辛苦了那其實我們在這邊都是很關心勞動部的預算問一下勞動部預算今年被砍了多少非統棟統山的部分是八千但是如果把整體的砍山是八千那整個凍結在一億八 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16469.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16474.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
刪掉8000然後凍結118那凍結18億來再說一次有點偷昏了來再說一次刪除的部分是8000然後凍結的部分是18億 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16484.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16486.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
那這個時間有限剛剛黃姐也在關心就是說這個新手爸媽他們的這個產檢的產檢價的薪資的補助跟賠產檢還有賠產檢價的薪資的補助那這部分呢預算被刪除了800萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16505.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16520.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
然後被凍結了這個一千九百四十二萬那這個是本來是要給這一個微小型的企業因為多了兩天由政府來補助嘛那所以呢這樣下去的話這補助我剛聽下半年就沒有了那下半年大概是到幾月就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16522.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16546.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
其實可能假設以這個刪減跟凍結的狀況的話如果沒有辦法解凍的話可能到八九月八九月就沒有因為生小孩這件事情他沒辦法去控制時間了嘛他可能就下半年十月十一月的時候要生啊那時候之前要去陪產檢啊那所以說這個對於新手爸媽來講我覺得啦我覺得真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16547.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16552.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
他們心裡會覺得說那為什麼這個債務黨要砍這個預算那這個預算對他們來講是不無小補啊你看有產檢價的薪資補助賠產檢的薪資補助那我是希望說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16564.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16588.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
這個胃環這邊齁這個是胃環這邊解凍就可以了嗎還是要到到這個大院這部分應該是應該是胃環會解凍嗎我是希望說能夠趕快解凍啦不然對這個新手爸媽來講八九月那如果是預產期是在那個時候該怎麼辦因為解凍當然還是有它的不確定性當然我們就希望是可以趕快讓我們比較有效的使用這些資源好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16588.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16611.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
另外這個是新手吧第二個勞動力發展署你們的業務費也被刪除了1000萬然後勞動力發展署的一般行政項目被刪減了3576萬所以說你們說勞動力發展署有400多名的第一線人員心知面臨發放困難這些是指那些約聘僱的第一線人員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16613.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16617.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那怎麼辦呢因為這裡面因為我們法案署業務費被刪了1000萬重點還有後面我們還凍結了20%所以凍結了4000多萬這個刪減跟凍結的狀況加起來其實是超過5000萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16630.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16654.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那我們其實有很多第一線的一些這個救福人員他們的薪資其實是我們用這個業務費在做相關的補助的所以在這個三減跟凍結的狀況之下可能就會對於這些救福人員地方上面我們補助的救福人員的這個薪資的發放會造成困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16655.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16673.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
所以說200多位這個是屬於第一線的他們是服務這些等於是第一線的工作人員就對了是 他就是就業服務人員那他們的薪水比如說這個大概能夠發到幾月份所以我們其實現在其實已經已經開始有點欲缺不補了 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16675.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16694.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
那目前大概也是會到如果這個刪減跟凍結的狀況下面也是到如果沒有辦法解凍的話到下半年就會有薪資無法足而發放的問題那怎麼辦請他們離職嗎就是我們很不樂意見到對啊好不容易到勞動部來那結果又請他們離職是對啊因為你不能少他們的薪水啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16695.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16723.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
對啊所以薪水所以現在所以跟我的說明其實現在真的已經我們已經開始已經有點欲缺不補了然後對就已經已經開始有欲缺不補的狀況然後因為避免到時候薪資發放的風險那真的會對於我們很多這些辛苦工作的工作人員那現在也是還有200多名現在的現在還有200多名好那你說那個下面那個勞動力發展所一般行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16724.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16751.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
三百分之十 三千五百七十六萬凍結百分之二十 七千多萬加起來多少 一億喔對那所以這個也會影響到公務人員 技工公有的薪資喔是 因為其實很多都是用這個一般行政的經費其實在做相關我們包括技工公有的薪資在做指引那所以咧所以如果到下半年沒有錢了這些人也是要請他們離開嗎 還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16753.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16768.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
根據委員報告基本上我們會先維持基本的行政維持必要的一個工作那這個部分我們會盡量留住會保障同仁的一個薪資方面的一個權益然後會從其他的行政費用去做準解處理有辦法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16770.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16792.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
還是要爭取解凍對啊我的意思就是說來勞動部工作那結果因為被在野黨砍人的預算那結果面臨這個在勞動部裡面要面臨被離職的這個問題那我覺得那不是我覺得真的是對他們來講情何以堪下一個這個你們的這個基本行政工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16793.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16820.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
預算刪除一千萬凍結了一千五百八十三萬那所以咧你們這些清潔人員保全的人也會受到影響其實已經影響了其實我們在部裡面其實有些承染人力其實已經在三月三月一號已經離職了三月 那就這個月就離職了已經離職了有多少人現在已經離職了九位九位已經離職了那你們這個大概有幾位啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16824.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16838.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
你今天講的是指清潔人員跟保全嗎就是保全我們承攬的部分保全已經就是2月28號是最後一天然後現在已經無法再繼續再提他們的契約是多久啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16839.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16854.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
他們的契約我們通常是一年一標所以他們契約本來是到今年的12月31號但是因為因為我們預算的刪減那有些費用其實是不能是基本性基本的維持沒有辦法刪減的情況下我們只能非常非常無奈的就是讓9個這些呃承攬的人離然後在3月1號離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16858.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16874.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那所以預算繼續不解凍的話會有更多的離職就對了對 如果不解凍的話會有下一波連水電的支付都會出現問題連勞動部的整個辦公行政的一般的維持如果持續不解凍的話都會出現問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16876.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16903.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
我覺得這很悲哀的事情今天不是說因為你哪裡做不好然後這個砍運算那今天砍到的第一個新手爸媽那第二個這些最基層的這些工友濟工這些都受到影響那真的希望那當然我們趙委在這邊他也希望說能夠趕快去做解凍但是被刪除的就沒有辦法了好 謝謝主席 謝謝部長謝謝李委 謝謝部長接下來請鄭天才委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16909.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16911.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
沒有啊,順序是你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16934.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16955.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
好主席好謝謝各位委員有請部長來有請部長好好辛苦了哈這個勞資正義法律及生活費用付出辦法第三條哈這第一項特別提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16957.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16972.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
金主管機關調解不成立而向法院申請勞動調解或起訴非屬有資歷者得申請輔助這第一款第二款第三款都有規定好這個這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16979.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17008.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
最主要就是說提到這個前三項之申請以訴訟程序進入第二審第三審或再審者得不經主管集團調解程序申請前條第一款之輔助而這樣的一個規定現行的這個規定如果透過訴訟程序取得執行名義之後卻沒有辦法按照現行的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17009.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17032.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
或者是說他自己去訴訟,然後他也就起了執行名義嘛,就沒有包含在這裡面。然後這個相關的這樣的一個規定,對一個勞工而言,確實就是他有需要去,他又無資歷啊,是不是可以做這樣的一個修正啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17036.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17049.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
謝謝委員那因為我們所有的訴訟輔助我們都會定期的做檢討那這個部分我們也會再來做未來再做檢討修正的時候再來研究好這個這個一定要去做檢討修正因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17053.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17081.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
他勞資正義基本上勞工都是比較弱勢的地方然後經過你們的調整調解程序之後有的有的主管機那個雇主也不同意啊對不對按照你們的標準應該是可以結果雇主不願意只好進入訴訟程序類似像這樣的一定要把它做一個導正這是第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17082.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17107.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
第二個部分就是說這個這個法規啊勞資正義法律及生活費用輔助辦法如果我們看這個前面的所謂的非屬有自立者非屬有自立者這個部分這個一個認定這個認定的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17109.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17132.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
多久沒有做一個修正或是跟委員報告我們的智力其實比中低收入都可以更高那我們都會隨現在的物價會做一些調整我們因為這個部分我們都是跟法輔基金會合作那法輔基金會也都會在做這樣的一個調整所以我們會定期會來檢視這樣的智力的限制會不會過嚴過苛這部分我們都會處理好這個必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17137.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17154.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
這個你們要去查當時是什麼時候訂的那現在經過這麼多年的要不要修正要不要檢討對 物價指數也要去協調這個那個司法院嘛法輔基金會這是第二個第三個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17159.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17174.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
這個輔助的經費輔助的基準在第七條有規定第七條裡面四萬塊輔助的標準我這邊沒有列四萬塊現行的條文而這個現行的條文四萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17177.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17204.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
是從民國100年4月發布這個辦法的時候到現在100年了現在是114年 14年了所以這個4萬塊也要做一個應該要做調整這部分我們其實並不是給錢的我們是指派律師的方式我知道我是說你一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17206.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17220.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
在第7條我念一下第7條勞動調節訴訟代理酬金輔助基準如下對所以這個部分這個好你一併去檢討好接下來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17224.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17250.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
在你的報告裡面有特別提到促進薪資透明化牢固雙方資訊對等這裡面你的報告特別提到這個4萬塊107年的時候是未達4萬元經常性薪資未達4萬元然後要調整一定要調整今年是調整門檻5萬元這個部分的一個狀況是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17253.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17281.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
這個到底利還是不利本來心知透明化嘛你原來的用意是對的沒有錯那怎麼樣去評估這個部分本來你們原來的這個良善目的是良善的是對的那會不會產生其他的後遺症還是說我的直接建議我的直接建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17283.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17309.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
心智透明化這個就我們原住民勞工而言很多都沒有他明明在這個地方工作然後卻沒有加入勞保心智還是有領喔心智還是有領沒有加入勞保他不給他再加入勞保所以怎麼樣去勞動部跟勞保局去如果有這個心智透明化的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17311.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17336.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
這個機制跟各位說這個機制主要是針對其實我們在很多求職或者是求財的這個廣告上面有時候常常雇主會用免疫我知道我原來的用意我知道你們原來的用意有時候免疫其實會這個我們希望能夠讓讓勞工的得到更多的資訊也讓勞工在跟這個雇主在議價薪資議價的時候有更多籌碼這個薪資透明化能不能再擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17340.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17340.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
扣大讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17343.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17370.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
這個你們勞保勞檢或是企業去檢查的時候到底是不是這個勞工明明在這邊領薪水卻沒有投勞保類似這樣這樣我是做這樣的一個建議啦這其實有點是兩個議題啦那因為我們現在在講的心思透明化的部分比較是針對這個在人才招募過程裡面必須要公開所以這需要法規的支持好這個我剛剛的建議你們也去評估好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17371.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17389.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
好謝謝政委謝謝部長接下來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在請吳立華委員來做詢問謝謝主席再次有請洪部長來請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17397.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17410.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
好 部長好想要請教您一下就是原鄉現在有很多的人都提到他的農業需要無人機那請你看一下他的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17411.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17430.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
第一個是說解決農藥中毒的問題那第二個是說山區的坡度比較大第四期區那第三是平地無人機業者呢不願意上山第四個是可以創造原民的就業機會第五以上皆是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17435.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17461.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
應該是以上解釋謝謝其實還不只這幾個理由還可以再舉好幾個部長您知不知道目前勞動部有沒有原住民無人機的資訊我們目前是有幾個今年是一個就一個嗎部長您知不知道無人機執訊他大概要多久才能夠拿到最基礎的證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17464.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17488.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
跟委員報告我們這個部分的職業訓練是由這個訓練單位他所掌握他所要培訓的一個技能那個單元內容來去做所以這個部分目前的證照並不在我們所規定辦理訓練一定要具備的那個辦理條件好那我知道的是一到兩個月因為120個小時那部長我可能你不知道因為我本來也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17489.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17506.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
這個授訓完了之後他是拿到叫做基本級的操作證就是所謂的只能夠做空拍那如果說要離我剛才講的要能夠去做農業需要的這個噴這個藥的止飽劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17510.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17525.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
他其實是依照民航區他是主管機關他有他一定的規範那如果要能夠拿到是要拿到高級那至少要高級1B然後一直到高級2C所以也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17526.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17541.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
大概還要如果完全很通暢就是拿到基本證照隔一個月之後又去考證又順利通過隔一個月之後又去進階進階進階最快最快最順利最順利也要半年以上那這個狀況我為什麼特別要來提 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17544.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17568.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
因為根據我們的原住民族工作權保障法第15條他就是有特別提到說要依照原住民的一個需求然後呢去提供職業訓練的機會那我在這裡就常常很遺憾我拿這個中分數這應該是中分數的他的類別我們就可以看得到大概一般來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17569.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17585.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
都是手作啊或者是歌舞啊做點心做咖啡這一類的居多啦那我也特別感謝中分署為什麼因為剛才講的那個一個就是中分署好像我們的執訊類別 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17587.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17608.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
就比較沒有科技業的那有了之後呢我也很遺憾為什麼因為中分署說可能以後會沒有那問了原因大概是跟什麼有關係因為根據我們這個委託辦理職前訓練的作業原則他有一個部分是寫到說訓練單位要把這個結案報告含活動內容與結訓後90日內的就業成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17618.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17624.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
也就是說三個月就需要就業那他的績效指標會看不出就業率 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17626.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17653.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
所以呢偏偏跟我們這個我們要辦理執訓是要訓練他能夠投入農業能夠用無人機去做噴藥噴灑結果呢他沒有辦法透過這一次的訓練就完成這個可能會造成我們整個做職業訓練的一個困擾那我也要在這邊跟部長說就是這個原鄉我們很需要無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17654.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17681.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
不僅僅是講農業因為我們的地形真的是又陡又崎嶇說一句實在話如果能夠善用無人機現代科技不僅僅解決那個農藥中毒的問題其實可以節省很多的人力而且可以鼓勵我們的青年返鄉但實際上它的應用在我們的山區包括救災像上次有一個新聞被毒蛇咬傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17682.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17697.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
用這個無人機去送那個血清10分鐘就可以送達那這樣的這個例子很多包括上次那個明巴克路橋斷橋那運送物資卡魯颱風時期呢用無人機運送物資其實都很方便甚至像現在的繪圖還有進法補償都可以用無人機來去做一個配套所以呢這個無人機對原住民的持訊來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17709.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17723.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
我覺得很多人都來跟我們澄清說非常的需要所以在這邊就是跟部長來做一個要求就是要嘛就重新檢視相關的就業機會去做一個規定的一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17724.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17741.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
我想這個也不是法律如果能夠去做一個調整就很好那又或者是說能跟原民會農業部一起來研擬原鄉就業導向的一個無人機課程直接導入就業市場那部長您的意見如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17742.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17763.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
我想其實我完全可以感受到那個委員其實在提的這個計畫我自己是覺得我們如果這些相關的KPI的指標如果有需要調整的部分那我們就我們當然可以來做一些相關的檢討那對於原鄉我們執訊的怎麼樣更多元甚至納入更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17764.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17786.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
可能也不只甚至不只是無人機假如有更多其他科技科技相關的技術的可能性的部分我覺得我們也可以來來多做考慮好不好謝謝部長謝謝您這樣一個態度的表示謝謝那後續就再到辦公室我們可以一起討論好我請我們的來來到吳委員辦公室好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝吳委員謝謝部長那接下來請許新英委員來做懸導 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17794.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17815.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
跟委員會報告 我們選打結束之後會休息20分鐘給各位同仁用餐 謝謝謝謝主席 本席有請洪部長來 請部長薛委員好洪部長好 您上任多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17816.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17842.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
三個多月三個多月您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎也必須要慢慢也必須要持續熟悉啊當然好那請教您今天在第六大項有特別提到業務報告裡面優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度那您知道現在很大的一個問題是什麼在這第六大項您知道嗎對不起因為報告上我 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17844.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17856.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
就是我念給你啊優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度您在這一個大業務的情況下你知道現在台灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17857.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17882.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
可能移工的問題移工管理的問題移工管理所以您知道現在這個目前失聯的移工人數有多少嗎最新的數據應該是9萬多對9萬多一直以來都居高不下然後又破了9萬之前8萬多就很多了那我們都束手無策嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17884.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17909.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
呃 當然我們從跟 我們跟那個好 沒關係因為本席時間有限 先稍等 先稍等本席今天失聯移工問題先等一下有時間再回頭過來現在失聯移工數有90833人但這個是一個嚴重的系統問題它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17910.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17938.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
但是我们国家的资源流失什么资源流失呢就是目前我们这些失联移工这么多然后有些移工我们要遣返要让他遣返回他的国家逃逸的移工失联移工就是逃逸移工那现在有很多移工我们要把他遣返回去他没有钱然后就用了我们的什么基金您知道吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17939.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17968.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
用救安基金對就業安全基金用了我們的救安基金那過去4年的這個統計呢用掉了我們2億1933萬收不回的收不回的有2億多所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說哇這個被刪掉了800萬新手爸媽然後凍結了那凍結了當然是可以再解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17969.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17982.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
你這個800或1000可是這麼多年來這個移工遣返的問題你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17985.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18000.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
討不回來你也沒有在制度上去更新啊你也沒有去想辦法那怎麼這個錢你就這樣一直流失一直流失兩億多兩億多你在那邊糾結幾百萬幾百萬那所以本席要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18000.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18022.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
我們這不是在糾結幾百萬這是不同的這是不同的項目我們都要盡力的做好可是那我要請你我現在沒有請你回答本席要強調的是那你這個都同樣是人民的納稅錢你這邊一直流失一直流失國家資源一直流失兩億多你不痛不癢四年來沒有任何的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18024.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18047.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
這個就是問題嘛 本席要講的就是貪官永遠預算嫌少嘛但是清官才會預算我完全不接受但是你該用貪官來形容我不接受把他講成貪官你不接受沒關係 執政荒誕失靈責任推給在野所以本席在這邊我們有做個更好的空間但我不接受把他講成貪官那麼多年來兩億多你們現在有什麼作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18053.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18067.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
有什麼作為跟委員報告目前這個部分我們當然依照應該要負擔這個費用的包括是這個移工或是部長身為部長都不知道你要他來回答本席可以告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18068.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18087.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
這個移民署也一直給你們意見那你們就一直回覆沒辦法做到沒辦法做到好那好那沒關係這位是呃我們的跟委員報告我是代理代理署長哦代理署長原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題啊那這個部分剛剛部長也有提到我們會從改善移工的勞動條件你不能每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18091.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18119.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
這樣子錢一直流失嘛那至於這個有關電付的這個對電付的錢我們目前第一個是有加強罰則包括移工如果這個沒有這個你罰他他就是沒錢嘛所以然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的就是所以他就是沒有錢所以呢都給他寫了說喔那我回去會還你錢的一個借據所以現在抽屜有一大堆兩億多有多少張所以本席最後因為時間到了本席建議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18120.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18134.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
你為什麼不提撥呢因為移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金保證金可能會覺得剝削或者是他負擔不起沒關係那你就從他每個月每個月的薪資你一點一點提撥嘛提撥到 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18137.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18164.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
你們算得出來嗎就每一次每一個遣返回去大概要多少是一萬塊台幣還是八千塊連機票連相關你收容他的一些吃的飲食的問題你就提撥嘛你提撥到一個量你就停了嘛那也不是保證金問題你就慢慢提撥這樣可以做嗎假如說用提撥的方式如果會增加這個移工的經濟負擔的話在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18165.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18193.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
就一點點一點點累積所以你一個月提撥他500塊增加移工他經濟的我說這是從過往的經驗來看增加他的經濟負擔的話就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊那你500塊提撥500塊一個月一個月你一年多你大概就提撥完畢所以你這個500塊你覺得就增加他失聯的這點我 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18195.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18215.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
我覺得你們要不要考慮看看但是好沒關係我們可以整體的在思考如果我們的建議你覺得不好那你拿出更好的辦法不是讓我們國家資源一直流失一直流失我們各種方法我們都願意來思考但是這確實是一個相當困難相當有挑戰的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18215.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18238.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
你可以接近一下其他國家其他國家做得好的我們應該要效法我們希望能夠從源頭上面來降低失聯的可能性這當然是我們現在在各種制度上設計上面我們必須優先來考慮的事情你的源頭如果可以降低我當然大家贊成但是失聯移工人數就一直增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18239.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18264.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
然後每年一直累積我們的就業安定基金都拿去給這些移工遣返回去這個是事實啊委員 剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好 謝謝好 謝謝徐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18268.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18282.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
謝部長接下來請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英不在請鄭振成委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在柯之恩委員柯之恩委員柯之恩委員不在蔡易宇委員蔡易宇委員蔡易宇委員不在請陳委員來做詢問謝主席麻煩請部長兩位請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18302.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18316.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
陳英文好部長好因為您上任以來本席有發現就是這段時間勞動部的政策好像大部分我們的觀察是左院長在對外發布的機率比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18317.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18338.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
那我從來也很少就是說看到說有哪一家媒體有提到就是說部長自己對外說明這個所主政的勞動部將有這個什麼重大的這個計畫或改變例如說國定假日要增加勞退要提高那有條件的開放外籍勞工從事服務業等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18339.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18362.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
甚至是說像台中百貨公司氣爆事故的救援跟慰問傷患我們看到的大部分都是卓院長在指示優先照顧傷者保障勞工權益 盡速調查事故原因等等我想這些很多行政院在發布集都要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18363.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18383.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
呃感覺就是說勞團跟工商團體呃對於這個勞動部的這個角色溝通的這個管道就是好像比較弱點這是有一些奇怪就感覺上有些奇怪然後那反而就是說對於在我們會比較常看到就是過去對於勞動部常有一些需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18385.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18403.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
這個補破網的工作 有很多的報導金句 例如說我不吃這一套啦 不用恭喜我啦 就按基金用途改革進行改革進行式等等 或者是說沒動機跟理由迴避這些金句其實大家都反而非常的耳熟能詳 這個報導是看到蠻多的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18407.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18434.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
再來我想要請教就是說部長接任之初喔特別卓院長有給您三個任務請教請問你還記得嗎第一個當然是處理霸凌的問題然後再來一個是處理部內的霸凌的整頓的問題然後再來包括是希望能夠提出一個完整的勞工的政策然後也希望做出一些制度的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18435.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18460.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
好我想比較還原院長所用的文字就是說穩定勞動部內部同仁的情緒這個是他有講的那我想要請教就是說內部同仁情緒目前都穩定了嗎當然我們這段時間還是會有一些相關的申訴可是我們就是透過該處理的就去處理該面對就面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18461.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18482.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
我想這個內部同仁的情緒應該不只不單止就是之前的這個謝怡榮的事件應該還有很多可能有些被揭露有些在調查中有些是在進行中不為人知的我想這些情緒不曉得部長有沒有關注到 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18483.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18503.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
如果有相關的問題的話我想都可以提出來我想這個是很重要的第一個第一件事情部長有這樣提那再來就是要能夠健全友善合理的職場然後讓所有的勞工在安全環境中為國人效力那請問現在大家勞工們都安全了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18505.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18520.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
所以這部分我想昨天講當時的意思是就是針對我們要求治安法那針對職場霸凌的機制要來把它法制化這部分我們正在當然在進行中然後目前草案已經進入到最後的收尾的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18520.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18547.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
我想這個部分大家都一直也都跟部長一直在努力第三個就是在國家發展過程中對於所有產業人民的需求要提出完整的勞工政策我想請教就是說目前部長主要你現在在推動的主要的政策是有哪些然後協助你擬定政策的這些核心人物又是哪些核心人物對 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18550.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18564.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
這當然是我現在是勞動部長當然我就是要對這些事情負責倒不是什麼核心人物不核心人物的問題那協助你這個就是說擬定決策啦就是的這些人當然部內的同仁很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18564.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18583.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
就是部內的同仁的主管部內的同仁也包括我們其實相關的政策也會諮詢專家學者包括產業先包括勢勞工團體都在諮詢那我再請教部長就是您這三個月沒有築密的歲月裡有沒有好好珍惜自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18588.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18616.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
因為我去查過這個所有的部會很不幸的我沒有找到有任何一個部會的主任秘書一直可以懸缺三個月以上那我是很擔心啦就是說這個我倒要問問就是說勞動部你們這個內部的你們這些資深官員難道你們都不願意擔任部長的主秘嗎你們在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18620.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18637.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
我覺得我們這些相關重要的職缺確實我們有補了一些然後我覺得找到很不錯很適當的人選那可是也有一些持續的在找到在接觸然後在詢問中那我自己心裡也蠻急的 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18638.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18665.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
所以看起來部長蠻嚴格就是您的標準也真的很高這個是好事啦但是三個月的歲月那我們其實都很關心也特別我們過去也都是同事就是說部長是屬於這個輕壯派的部長但現在就是說以在卓內閣的這個放眼望去部長應該算是最年輕的應該是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18668.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18697.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
我沒有去問因為有人已經不在了所以你已經開始最年輕了那你跟這些可以就是說在輩分上是可以作為您的這個叔叔阿姨輩的這些高階文官那高階文官常常就是高學歷又經驗豐富那部長你如何去領導管理他們然後讓他們看見說你的這個能力然後可以信任你 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18699.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18716.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
因為我們其實都是會很擔心就是說也怕你在勞動部裡面被欺負啊然後或者被蒙蔽而不自知甚至被誤導那這個就是在政策的決策上就會發生很大的問題這個是我們擔心的沒有被欺負的問題我可以很肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18717.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18736.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
好沒有這個問題這是好事因為如果有人欺負你我們也會幫忙修理他幫忙導正那但是你如果有被蒙蔽的時候我們想幫忙就未必幫得上忙了這是我才我才就是本性比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18737.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18749.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
真正擔心的事情我覺得我們會把這個諮詢的管道盡量的多元然後來聽大家的意見那事實上不管最後的什麼決策我都是要負責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18751.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18772.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我覺得有一些決策如果錯誤了你嘴巴講說你可以負責但是影響到很多勞工的權益的時候你嘴巴講你可以負責實際上你是沒有辦法負責的我必須要在這裡做這樣提醒雖然我今天的口氣很溫和但是呢我想有些問題是瑞麗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18774.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18787.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
所以我做這樣子的提醒那至於哪些部分被蒙蔽我想後續我還會再跟你持續溝通因為你如果繼續被蒙蔽那院長交付你的任務你就沒有辦法完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18789.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18811.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
那最近來進入一個實質的問題最近這個職場霸凌的案件還是層出不窮那以最近這個台大醫院某病房的護理站的例子似乎要認定成立了那實務上非常的不容易你們自己北分署的案子也是部長自己親自召集組成有公信力的這些外部委員那最後才能通過的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18813.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18829.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
而且是在責損一位部長之後然後才被認定成立所以部長你也才有機會坐上這個位置那我要請教的是說被霸凌的受害者如果因此罹患精神疾病算不算職業災害算不算這應該算了好你講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18838.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18839.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
這個當然要經過專業醫學的專業認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
18842.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
18872.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
好我想是這樣啦你的回答也沒錯就是畢竟但是這10年來其實大概只有認定25件而已我提供這個數據給部長參考那再來未來即將制定的這個霸凌專章是在他是很奇妙的他是長在職安法裡面那這是不是表示就是說勞動檢查機構將負責未來的這個霸凌調查跟檢查講到這裡我先請教部長就是說調查跟檢查的差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
18874.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
18891.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
這當然不一樣啊對阿差別在哪裡檢查是對於我們的很多的防治的做法有沒有做到位必須進行檢查那調查當然就是進入到個案上面那到底發生的事情是什麼進行調查這當然是很不一樣所以其實一個是就是事前的預防跟事後的調查當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
18893.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
18920.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
那再來我要提醒就是說某事業單位的技術長這個新聞被董事長殺害死亡那因為他在他的離職信當中有提及到就是說他在職場上是有被霸凌的狀況所以依據職安法已經進行了勞檢那過去你們的執行裡面並沒有要求就是這個勞檢介入霸凌的調查但是呢你們北分署的案子跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
18921.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
18935.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
新北的勞檢處也都全部介入他都介入了那這表示就是說那這個將來地方跟中央有可能是不同調的所以法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
18936.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
18961.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
要怎麼定是至關重要那不要造成說將來各縣市就各吹各的調那因為如果說這個事業單位的調查認為霸凌不成立而勞檢調查認定成立的時候部長認為怎麼辦我可以再舉一個例子就是說因為我是想問說那霸凌專章到底能不能處理這一塊因為我來舉這個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
18962.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
18984.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
嗯 就是職安署如果就說好啦 職安署內部的某約顧的同仁被公務人員的同仁霸凌然後勞檢員就是要去調查 但是勞檢員又受雇於職安署那你們到底要怎麼處理這些狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
18986.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19002.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
跟委員說明剛才講到勞檢的人力他處理的比較不是直接的所謂的調查這個勞檢的部分比方說像新北市的介入他比較是去查他在職場霸凌的問題或者是不法侵害問題上面有沒有做到預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19003.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19030.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
那調查的部分還會有調查該有的人力所以這部分會是不太一樣的那當然接下來我們是希望如果治安法的修法有霸凌反霸凌防治專章之後這些都有相關的機制上面的規範對啊那好啦即便是調查沒有預防那你們這些勞檢員要去調查自己的這個顧用他們的人這個治安署有沒有做到預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19031.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19057.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
那這個這個也是另外一個一個問題啊好所以我點出來這樣問題也沒有錯嘛你就是球員兼裁判自己調查自己啊如果涉及到的是這個機構裡面的最高負責人的話當然就設計上面我們會會是希望有再有上級機關來做調查就又要就是所以這個專章新聞法也是這樣子啊就是如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19058.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19079.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
這個最高負責人是行為人的話那你不太能夠在這個機構只能自己負責我想今天今天我剛提出的這些問題就是一個善意的提醒因為我們畢竟現在就是我們即將要來處理制定這個霸凌專長所以我大概提出這個做以上提醒好那請你們注意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19085.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19106.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
好 謝謝本次會議詢答全部結束那現在做一下決定第一報告及詢答完畢第二委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內已書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定那我們現在休息20分休息完之後我們再繼續開會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
20475.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
20481.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
現在繼續審查110年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算管理勞動部主管部分本次會議討論事項已於113年12月9日說明及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
20494.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
20516.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
先做以下宣告一本市審查戶屬單位預算案以各基金為處理單位五委員提案部分預算均照列第二本會召委會議決議與審查預算提案時保留於第二輪之提案提案委員不在現場則不再處理該項提案第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
20517.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
20540.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
本次審查會有關於提案委員所提預算刪減案經委員會審查通過則除提案委員特別聲明不同意外均同意勞動部的科目自行調整第四有關於提案委員預算刪減或凍結案部分勞動部與各提案委員溝通結果如提案委員同意併案刪減或凍結則請勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
20543.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
20560.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
於本次戶屬單位預算全部審查完畢前將各同意並按刪減或凍結之提案案號及科目匯整後送主席台宣告後通過第五 商事委員提案凍結之預算除特別聲明不同意者外 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
20561.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
20583.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
文字均統一為須向立法院生物福利基於衛生環境委員會提出書面報告並經同意後使得動之第六 在本會審查中如提案委員口頭同意修正凍結案及主決議部分文字者請勞動部盡速與提案委員溝通後將書面修正文字送至主席台 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
20584.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
20596.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
我們現在開始審查請醫生員宣讀勞動部主管附屬單位預算之科目兼額及委員提案我們預計2點半開始進行實質的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
20601.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
20616.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算勞動部主管甲非營業部分依作業基金勞工保險局作業基金業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金運用等項之審查結果隨同調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
20618.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
20643.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
業務總收入7435億7382萬2千元業務總支出同業務總收入本期剩餘0元 減少工庫金額無劣數轉投資計畫無劣數固定資產建設改良擴充無劣數國庫增撥基金額無劣數二 特別收入基金就業安定基金業務計畫因依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整基金來源298億零182萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
20646.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
20650.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
基金用途273億3682萬6千元本期剩餘24億6499萬4千元結繳公庫無劣數以信託基金部分依勞工退休基金救治基金運用計劃因依據收支漁畜撥補等向之審查結果隨同調整總收入314億7986萬4千元總支出34億5324萬2千元本期剩餘281億2662萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
20677.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
20684.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
2.勞工退休基金新制基金運用計畫與就職同總收入1644億8477萬5千元總支出1億8940萬1千元本期剩餘1642億9537萬4千元3.基建公司電廠基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
20696.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
20702.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
基金運用計畫與勞工退休基金同總收入12億7465萬2千元總支出5億5696萬元本期剩餘7億1769萬2千元繼續宣讀委員提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
20712.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
20738.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
議制六案為勞工保險局作業基金一委員陳清暉廖偉翔陳昭芝提案業務成本與費用減列二十分之一凍結二十分之三二委員王玉明等人提案保險成本凍結五千萬元三委員王玉明等人提案雜項業務成本災保及保護媒體政策及業務宣導費減列二百萬元四委員陳瑩等人提案柯木桐第三案減列二百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
20739.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
20763.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
五六案為委員蘇清泉圖全及邱振軍提案五職業傷病服務凍結十分之一六職業災害勞工重建凍結十分之一七至第100案為就業安定基金七委員蘇清泉等人提案基金用途凍結二十分之三八至11案科目為媒體政策及業務宣導費八委員蘇清泉翁曉林等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
20764.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
20790.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
簡列一億三千二百零七萬四千元 凍結一千萬元九 委員廖偉祥等人提案 簡列一億元十 委員邱振軍廖偉祥盧憲一提案 簡列十分之三 凍結一千萬元十一 委員蘇清泉等人提案 簡列十分之一 凍結十分之一十二 委員蘇清泉等人提案 一 促進國民就業計畫二 提升勞工福祉計畫 簡列十分之一 凍結十分之三 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
20791.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
20814.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
十三至十六案科目為促進國民就業計劃十三委員陳英等人提案減列一千萬元十四委員圖存基等人提案凍結一億元十五及十六案委委員林玉琴等人提案各凍結五百萬元十七委員蘇清泉等人提案促進國民就業計劃水電費減列三百九十萬元十八委員陳昭志等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
20815.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
20827.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
促進國民就業計劃修理保養及保固費減列8,465萬元凍結五分之一19委員陳昭芝等人提案科目同時發案凍結五分之一20至24案科目為促進國民就業計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
20830.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
20848.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
媒體政策及業務宣導費二十委員陳昭芝等人提案減列四千七百零三萬六千元二一委員王玉明等人提案減列四千萬元凍結四千萬元二十二委員陳金輝廖偉翔陳昭芝提案減列五分之一二十三委員蘇清泉等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
20849.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
20867.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
簡列二十分之三凍結五分之一二十四委員陳昭芝等人提案凍結二分之一二十五至二十八案委委員陳昭芝等人提案二十五促進國民就業計劃推展費簡列三千四百六十九萬七千元二十六科目同二十五萬凍結二分之一二十七構建固定資產資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
20869.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
20891.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
無形資產非理財目的之長期投資及營設與設施工程支出減列二一一千七百九十四萬七千元二十八柯木同二十七案凍結二分之一二十九委員林淑芬等人提案促進國民就業計劃捐助補助與獎助凍結二十分之一三十委員廖偉翔等人提案職業訓練業務媒體政策及業務宣導費減列三百萬元三十一委員邱戰軍蘇清泉圖全集提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
20898.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
20920.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
补助办理照顾服务员职业训练冻结一千万元三二委员苏清泉图权及邱振军提案办理青年职能开发业务冻结二十分之三三十三委员邱振军苏清泉图权及提案科目同三十二案冻结五百万元三十四委员王振旭杨耀林月琴提案科目同三十二案冻结一百万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
20921.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
20935.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
三十五委員邱戰軍蘇清泉圖全集提案特定對象及弱勢者就業業務凍結五百萬元三十六委員楊耀等人提案促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務檢列五百萬元凍結五百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
20937.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
20953.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
三十七委員蘇清泉等人提案柯木桐三十六案凍結十分之一三十八委員盧憲義等人提案柯木桐三十六案救案項目凍結十分之一三十九委員陳金輝廖偉翔陳昭資提案柯木桐三十八案凍結十分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
20955.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
20971.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
40.委员苏清泉图权及邱振军提案,补助地方政府设立营法人才服务据点冻结十分之一。41.委员邱振军苏清泉图权及提案,科目同事实案冻结一千万元。42.委员苏清泉图权及邱振军提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
20972.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
20980.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
辦理特定對象就業促進津貼及相關僱用獎助津貼凍結十分之一 四十三委員廖偉祥等人提案就業服務業務媒體政策及業務宣導費減列三百萬元 四十四委員楊耀等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
20987.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
20996.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
辦理僱用及就業獎助業務 檢列500萬元 凍結500萬元45 委員劉建國等人提案柯木同44案 檢列100萬元 凍結200萬元46 委員蘇清泉等人提案柯木同44案 凍結10分之147 委員陳金輝 廖偉祥 陳昭芝提案柯木同44案救安項目 凍結5分之148 委員邱振軍 蘇清泉圖權及提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
21013.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
21018.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
專案缺工就業獎勵凍結100萬元49委員楊耀等人提案辦理防治就業歧視業務檢列50萬元凍結50萬元50委員劉建國等人提案台灣就業通往時服務檢列100萬元凍結200萬元51委員楊耀等人提案青年就業服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
21033.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
21041.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
簡列一百萬元凍結一百萬元五十二委員廖偉祥等人提案職能標準及技能檢定與競賽業務媒體政策及業務宣導費簡列三百萬元五十三至五十四位委員陳金輝廖偉祥陳昭芝提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
21049.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
21073.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
五十三參加國際技能組織賽事暨交流訪問凍結五分之一五十四柯木桐五十三案凍結十分之一五十五委員蘇清泉等人提案辦理亞洲技能競賽相關業務簡列五分之一凍結二分之一五十六委員邱振軍廖偉祥盧憲一提案柯木桐五十五案凍結二千萬元五十七委員邱振軍蘇清泉圖權及提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
21073.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
21080.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
推動職能基準發展與應用 凍結五百萬元五十八委員楊耀等人提案微型創業鳳凰貸款利息補貼及創業協助減劣五百萬元 凍結五百萬元五十九委員劉建國等人提案柯木桐五十八案凍結一百萬元六十委員楊耀等人提案強化勞動力發展創新效能減劣五百萬元 凍結五百萬元六十一委員邱戰軍蘇清泉圖權及提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
21101.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
21123.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
改善职场工作环境业务绿能产业作业安全促进计划全数简列62委员林淑芬等人提案科目同61案冻结二分之一63委员陈英等人提案参访绿能产业先进国家相关机构推动国际交流合作并发展作业安全规范全数简列64至69案科目为 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
21125.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
21153.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
外國人聘務管理及許可計劃64 委員蘇清泉等人提案 簡列十分之一 凍結十分之三65 委員陳瑩等人提案 簡列十分之一 凍結十分之一66 委員陳瑩等人提案 簡列一億元67 委員蘇清泉圖權及邱政軍提案 凍結十分之一68 委員圖權基等人提案 凍結五千萬元69 委員邱政軍蘇清泉圖權及提案 凍結一千萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
21155.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
21163.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
70委員林淑芬等人提案外國人聘僱管理及許可計劃服務費用凍結二十分之一71委員蘇清泉等人提案外國人聘僱管理及許可計劃媒體政策及業務宣導費減列五分之一凍結十分之一72委員王玉明等人提案柯木桐七十一案減列五百萬元73委員陳昭芝等人提案柯木桐七十一案凍結二分之一74委員陳昭芝等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
21183.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
21199.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
外国人聘雇管理及许可计划推展费冻结二分之一75 委员王振旭杨耀林月琴提案外国人聘雇管理业务冻结100万元76 委员廖伟祥等人提案外国人聘雇管理业务媒体政策及业务宣导费减列600万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
21200.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
21216.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
七十七委員王玉敏等人提案辦理外國人跨部會協調事項等相關業務凍結一千萬元七十八委員陳盈等人提案辦理外國人聘僱管理及權益保障等相關事項簡列八百九十一萬元七十九委員楊耀等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
21217.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
21244.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
補助各地方政府辦理外國人管理等相關計劃減列五百萬元凍結五百萬元八十委員劉建國等人提案柯木同七十九案凍結二百萬元八十一委員陳金輝廖偉翔陳昭資提案辦理外國人聘僱許可業務等相關事項凍結五分之一八十二委員楊耀等人提案辦理就業安定費及外國人收容費收繳等相關事項減列五百萬元凍結五百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
21246.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
21267.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
83 委員王玉明等人提案提升勞工扶植計劃凍結五千萬元84 委員陳昭芝等人提案提升勞工扶植計劃匯費捐助補助分攤照護救濟與交流活動費減列五億三千二百八十六萬九千元85 委員林月琴等人提案勞動扶植退休業務凍結五百萬元86 委員劉建國等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
21270.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
21293.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
辅导及推动工作与生活平衡救保项目减列200万元87委员图全集等人提案劳动关系业务冻结50万元88委员图全集等人提案科目同87案冻结50万元89委员王振旭陈培宇等人提案营造劳工有力结社环境落实劳动教育计划冻结100万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
21294.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
21305.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
九十委員陳瑩等人提案勞動條件及就業平等業務檢列十分之一九十一委員圖全基等人提案柯木桐九十案凍結一百萬元九十二委員楊耀等人提案補助辦理職場性騷擾防治業務檢列五百萬元凍結五百萬元九十三委員邱振軍蘇清泉圖全基提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
21315.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
21319.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
勞工權益輔助計劃凍結100萬元94委員王玉明等人提案一般行政管理計劃服務費用凍結5000萬元95委員蘇清泉等人提案柯木桐94案向下水電費減列65萬元96委員邱振軍廖偉祥如現役提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
21333.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
21336.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
秘書業務辦理基金業務所需行政管理服務減列五千萬元凍結一千萬元97委員劉建國等人提案一般建築及設備計劃秘書業務設置基金業務所需辦公設備減列十萬元98委員蘇清泉等人提案主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
21352.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
21380.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
99 委員陳瑩等人提案主決議100 委員林月琴等人提案主決議101 委員蘇清泉等人提案勞工退休基金救濟投資業務成本水電費減列10萬元宣讀完畢好謝謝現在開始進行主要討論主要討論藉由委員提案101案那每案先請行政單位做說明接著再請委員表示意見那現在進行第一案請行政單位說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
21382.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
21404.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
報告召委員跟委員 第一案是曾經委員關心我們玉房成員中心的輔助督導的業務那跟委員報告這個案子我們也跟委員辦公室做說明跟相關事情的釐清那委員辦公室已經同意改動雜項業務改動的項目是其他業務成本向下 災保及保護雜項業務成本100萬元謝謝委員給我們的指導跟支持 謝謝是 已經談好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
21410.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
21429.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
好 謝謝陳委員那第一案我們就照這個署長剛剛的說明這樣來通過了好 謝謝好 那請第二案第二案部分的話謝謝王委員這部分主要關心是勞保財務問題那經過跟委員溝通委員已經簽署同意改成組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
21431.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
21456.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
好 謝謝王委員 那我們改成主席的通過 第三案第三案是我們王議員跟我們的指導 這會針對我們這個勞保作業基金下面的我關我們職災勞工的相關議題的拍片 宣導廣宣等的議題委員是特別給我們指教要我們叫慎用跟使用所以委員有同意說我們併事案併案併三五十併動五十萬已簽署 謝謝委員跟我們指導 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
21457.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
21476.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
好這案我稍微說明一下因為就是之前有發現這個在每宣費用這個勞動部這邊有一些浪費跟不當使用的情況所以我這邊特別會針對每宣費用就會提出煽動那原則上如果是在業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
21477.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
21497.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
本身應該對勞工宣傳的這個我一定支持但是其實這當中有一些尊潔的空間然後有一些就是你們包括在拍片的這個費用如果是太高便利太高或者是說這當中有一些浪費的情況那我希望提出來這樣的一個案子本來是3減200那現在同意是併刪50萬併動50萬那就是希望說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
21503.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
21530.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
勞動部要遵截這些開銷然後把錢用在刀口上謝謝委員 感謝委員好 謝謝王委員那就是第三案 第四案就是併案嘛改三五十 改動五十好 這樣通過 繼續第五案第五案 指安署是蘇縣委員的的那個提案 以跟委員幫助溝通同意已經改組決議 已經簽署了好 謝謝蘇召委那我們就改為組決議 第五案通過 繼續第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
21532.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
21552.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
第二案是蘇委員的也是經過拜會同意改組決議已簽署好謝謝蘇召偉我們改為組決議通過第七案第七案謝謝蘇委員這個案子同意改為凍結促進國民就業計畫兩千萬元已簽署好就 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
21553.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
21576.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
改動兩千萬嘛好謝謝蘇昭偉改動兩千萬好繼續第八案第八案是翁曉琳委員的提案這個關切我們的沒宣費的一個編列的這個上漲的一個情形那這個部分還在爭取跟委員溝通好那請楊委員要來做補充說明你要替翁委員表達意見是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
21580.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
21609.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
謝謝趙偉我還怕你不讓我發言我是這樣講因為這個案是救安基金的第一案那我自己的案子是全部都已經都已經跟你們解散好了不過我原本有一個案子後來我把它撤掉了也在這裡一併跟跟你們做個說明就是說救安基 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
21610.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
21634.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
救安基金的收支保管以及應用辦法我希望你們能夠修一下為什麼呢 因為救安基金大概負責外勞的管理然後職業訓練跟就業服務它本身的基金存在的目的其實是固定的目標非常明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
21635.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
21654.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
那你們的辦法裡面多了一個辦理提升勞工福祉事項這麼籠統的模糊的概念很容易出問題很容易出問題我希望你們回去可以可以做個討論檢討檢討然後修正部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
21660.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
21676.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
那个跟各位说明我们基本上是有预计要来修这个救安基金的收支收支运用办法了好那但是因为刚刚那个委员讲的这个项目提升劳工福祉其实他是在我们的魔法里面其实是有这样子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
21677.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
21699.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
的項目的但是我們打算考慮修的是把那個其中的第12項第5條的第12項其他的部分我們會直接把它刪除有其他的我原本有在想可是我想這裡其他的有關支出應該就是行政費用等等的但我們會把行政費用更清楚的框定然後把其他因為過去大家比較詬病的是感覺其他的範圍非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
21699.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
21719.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
我們會把這個其他直接刪除這個我這邊資料有不過我還是覺得有關辦理提升勞工福祉事項你們還是要再規定的更明確一點因為這個太籠統了比較容易出問題啦事實上也已經出過不少問題了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
21720.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
21749.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
跟委員報告這個部分現在就在我們的一個修正的一個方案裡面我們打算把促進國民就業它裡面本來就有包括職業訓練就業服務技能競賽技能檢定等等既然能夠分列那所以提升勞工福祉它也可以把它分列出來幾個比較具體的一個計畫的一個內涵這個部分我們會來修訂這個部分我們會一起來處理就是盡量具體化啦太模糊的東西很容易出問題好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
21750.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
21770.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
好 謝謝楊委員專案 專業的提醒齁好 但是這個提案委員不在現場蘇 蘇 蘇委員 蘇召緯剛剛不是還在好 講電話好 那我們就先保留啦 抱歉來那繼續第九案跟第十案 第十案應該是相同嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
21771.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
21796.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
跟這個部分第九案謝謝那個廖偉強委員這邊同意併案凍結服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費凍結一千萬元已簽署是然後第十案你是一樣嗎第十案邱委員這邊已經同意併案他是簡列簡列就業安定基金服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費一千萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
21802.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
21811.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
好第十一案蘇清泉委員同意並按刪減促進國民就業計劃服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費1000萬元已簽署所以你公立 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
21816.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
21842.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
意思是第九案是動一千 第九案是動一千是 第十案 第十一案是併案然後這個三減一千對不對 第十案的話他是就業安定基金的服務費用所以他是減劣第十案也是減劣 對那第十一案呢則是在促進國民就業的服務費用這邊去做這個三減 減劣所以兩個不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
21847.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
21869.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
所以第九是動第十是減然後是媒體的政策業務的這個部分去減是那第十一則是在促進國民就業在下一層來做這個簡略科目別的差別我知道啊但是你是你是在下一個嗎下一個對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
21877.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
21895.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
9跟10跟11是三個不一樣的沒有辦法並好沒關係那第九就是你們同意就動一千嘛那第九案就照這樣來通過然後第十案就是檢列一千你們也同意嘛就照這樣通過那第十案也是檢列一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
21896.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
21921.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
促進國民就業 我知道這邊有寫就就減一千是那你們同意是好那我們就照這樣通過好繼續第12案第12案我們蘇慶文委員這邊同意並按凍結兩百萬並且修正凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署他一直不在他要不要進來一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
21925.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
21935.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
第十二案那謝謝蘇委員這邊同意第十二案是併案凍結兩百萬修正凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
21950.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
21978.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
十一案剛剛是照你的意見啦就檢列一千萬嘛齁十二案就是凍結兩百萬嘛對不對好剛剛有一個第八案第八案當然是那個翁委員的案子啦齁因為剛好出去講電話是不是這邊你可以這個是翁委員的案子啦那那個勞動部這邊是希望說同意併案科目進行調整然後檢列一千萬是不是這樣是你們同意這樣嗎齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
21980.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
22000.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
是不是可以請委員支持因為溫委員這個檢列的金額到一億三千萬不要啦不要啦這個檢列一億三千萬我們幾乎這個相關的都沒有辦法做了所以我們希望能夠並案檢列這樣子蘇昭偉要處理了啦蘇昭偉絕對是英明的他不會這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
22001.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
22023.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
剪裂一千萬 同意併案 科目自行調整那第八案就是剪裂一千萬併案並在科目自行調整好那我們就照這樣通過那接下來第十二案第十三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
22025.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
22051.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
啊 對不起 第十三案 抱歉 第十三案謝謝陳議委員這邊 我們同意改三減一百萬元並且科目調整為促進國民就業計畫身心障礙者及特定對象就業訓練業務特定對象及弱勢者就業業務已簽署好 那我們就照這樣來通過好 接續第十四案第十四案 謝謝圖權及委員這個案子同意併案凍結兩千萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
22055.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
22073.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
好 那突然不在現場就照這樣嘛 照這樣通過好 要給他簽名啦是 已經了 謝謝來 接續第15案第15案 我們林月琴委員已經同意併第14案凍結2000萬元已簽署好 那就照這樣通過15併14 來 再來第16案第16案 謝謝林月琴委員同意併第14 15案併案凍結2000萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
22082.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
22091.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
好所以16案也是併14案14 15對14 15那我們就照這樣通過第17案第17案謝謝蘇慶璇委員同意改組決議已簽署好謝謝我們蘇昭瑋同意改組決議那我們就照這樣通過第18案第18案謝謝陳昭芝委員同意併案刪減328萬8千元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
22107.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
22115.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
好那麼謝謝陳昭之委員那我們就這樣改列併案減列328萬8千來通過好繼續第19案也是謝謝陳委員這邊同意併第18案併案3減328萬8千元已簽署好19案併18案結果一樣就這樣通過繼續第20案 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
22129.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
22144.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
第20案也謝謝陳委員這邊同意併第10案簡列就業安定基金服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費1000萬元已簽署好20案併10案第10案對第8案也可以併剛剛通過了對啊不一樣嘛好就併案通過好繼續第21案 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
22154.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
22157.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
第21案謝謝王衛銘委員這邊同意並第11案並案針對服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導有看到3減1000萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
22173.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
22199.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
對 這一案我也要特別再講一下我剛剛也講過因為之前就業安定基金竟然拿去舉辦演唱會那這個部分我想這個全國民眾都非常的關注所以你可以看到這一次這個就業安定基金裡面有非常多委員都是針對媒體政策跟業務宣導這邊其實原本要煽動的預算比例都是蠻高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
22199.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
22213.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
那這個其實就是透過立法院大家想要強力的來監督避免這樣濫用那現在是勞動部你們有提出新的這樣的一個監督的一個做法我早上也在質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
22215.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
22243.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
我希望不只是策進作為更應該把這些相關的你策進作為然後相關符合法令的應該要落實的應該還是要明文化就是制度化那這樣才可以避免未來就是這樣的情況在發生所以這個部分我想未來我們還是會持續監督但是因為你們已經有提出新的策進作為所以那個三減的金額就下降這樣子所以我同意就是三減一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
22244.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
22250.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
謝謝王委員好謝謝王委員就是二一案並十一案檢列一千萬通過繼續二十二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
22250.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
22278.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
第十二案陳軍委員所關切的也是我們媒體政策業務宣導費的部分有大幅增加的情形那尤其又有救安基金在經費之用上是不是有應該要回歸公務預算編列的運用的一個狀況那經過我們溝通說明之後呢這個委員同意並第十一案第二十一案並案三減促進國民救濟計畫服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費一千萬元已簽署好謝謝那周委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
22279.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
22293.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
我這邊 蘇委員你是檢列多少檢列一千萬一千萬二十二檢列一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
22297.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
22315.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
這邊我補充一下因為這個審計部的報告講到說勞動部近年來多次以開口契約來辦理這些沒宣的採購啊等等行銷案所以這次你們大幅的增加4000多萬那人民當然覺得必須要嚴格的監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
22315.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
22326.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
並且是限制型的招標只有取三家廠商標從2022年到2024年看都是民視年代還有三立得標金額介於3500萬至4200萬之間這個未來您的這個分配我們都會嚴格再審視好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
22340.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
22348.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
我可以簡單說明因為大家很多關心開口契約的問題其實我到部裡面以後在12月的時候我們就對開口契約的適用做出了檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
22349.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
22371.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
所以接下來比方說一些活動或者是影片我們盡量的因為過去其實出問題的部分就是把這個活動跟影片用在開口契約裡面所以其實當時我就其實把這相關的標案做了檢討未來其實這些活動或者是影片我們盡量的不用開口契約的方式來去進行該用採購法供 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
22373.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
22383.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
招標我們就用採購法招標而不用公開開口契約所以我們對於公開契約的適用範圍做出了一些相關的限制那這部分其實已經正在做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
22384.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
22409.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
好所以最後結論是服務費用媒體政策機業務宣導費減列一千萬對好那就併案吧併第十一第二十一案對好那我們就照這樣通過是第二十三案第二十三案謝謝蘇星泉委員同意併第十一二十一二十二案併案三減一千萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
22411.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
22436.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
好謝謝蘇昭偉我們就照這樣通過第24案第24案謝謝陳昭之委員同意並第10案第20案並案簡列就案訂基金服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費1000萬元已簽署好謝謝陳委員我們就照這樣通過第25案第25案陳昭之委員這邊謝謝同意並案刪減服務費用推展費300萬元已簽署好 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
22442.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
22458.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
那我們就照這樣通過第26案第26案陳委員這邊同意並前案第25案併案刪減服務費用推展費300萬元已簽署謝謝好那就照這樣通過第27案第27案也謝謝陳委員這邊同意併案刪減300萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
22463.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
22472.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
好 一樣謝謝陳委員 接下來 照這樣通過第28案 陳昭智委員這邊同意並第27案 併案3減300萬元已簽署好 謝謝陳昭智委員的同意 已經跟他謝謝4次了好 就照這樣通過 接下來第29案 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
22482.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
22501.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
第29案是我們林淑芬委員關切的是我們救安基金編列了技能競賽跟國際技能交流的預算達了12億那這12億包括國內的技能競賽跟國際技能賽事等等這個部分的支用是否符合基金的用途在法定的業務範圍之內阿根委員報告的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
22501.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
22528.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
因為不管是從職業訓練法或者是從救安基金收支保管運用辦法這裡面都有把機能競賽這個部分納入我們的這個職業訓練跟救安基金的支用的一個用途範圍之內那相關的一個經費呢我們都盡量依照我們這個以往的執行的經驗跟相關的一個規模的情況之下來做這個編列我們也會遵截預算來做處理是不是懇請委員能夠同意我們是不是可以改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
22530.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
22550.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
好我來問一下請問在座的所有的委員 立委你聽過我們勞發署或勞動部辦理過的分區技能競賽或全國技能競賽的比賽項目有誰知道主席你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
22556.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
22577.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
人家花那麼多錢一個四億多一個七億多每年都花十幾億那他們辦的這個技能比賽是比賽什麼你們有誰知道欸 這裡面宣傳費很多欸你們知道嗎 所以經紀委員你知道嗎你覺得聽得懂嗎主席你有聽得懂嗎你知道喔 要比賽什麼紅包你也說給我們聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
22594.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
22594.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
阿龍在哪裡比賽你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
22605.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
22610.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
現在就是說我們署長講的是是我知道可是就是說看這個裡面的細目預算編列的宣傳費用還不少那還有分組比賽那最後總決賽就在南港展覽館南港展覽館光是場地租金就有五千萬然後那設備要比賽那設備搬來搬去就要花一億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
22634.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
22642.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
那至於選手獎勵金我們裁判費這個我們就不討論了那這個裡面還包括今年要辦的一個亞洲技能競賽亞洲技能競賽的媒體宣傳費高達6000萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
22648.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
22650.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
那他們預期的參加的是28國超過1000人但是我一直說作為一個立委好像社會的能見度對這個比賽的曝光度太低了但是文宣費用是變得很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
22663.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
22680.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
那我们是希望你真的要做好当然我现在看起来比赛什么东西这可能对职训职业学校职业学校可能比较他们比较了解工业机械机械设计组CNCC洗床车床等等看起来好像是方向是对的也可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
22686.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
22703.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
但索費不至那必要我們也是支持但是現在看了就是說文宣媒體費用花那麼多可是我想對全台灣的人來講好像完全所知知道這個資訊的人太少了啦連主席都不老實說我也不是很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
22704.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
22727.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
跟林委員說明其實因為確實這幾年勞動部在投入在這個競爭競賽你們宣傳費用偏不少但能見度很低但是主要是確實是針對這些職校的同學其實在做宣傳所以這幾年下來這些職校的同學他們其實在實務上面其實投入的意願跟他其實那個自信感其實榮譽感是增加很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
22727.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
22754.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
好啦我知道我不反對這個事情啦但是就是說這個錢花的恰不恰當文宣費用編列了光是亞洲的比賽就五億多五億多裡面宣傳費就編了六千多萬超過一成都是在做文宣可是事實上我們真的沒有感受啦老實說所以這個付費是不是應該再更尊潔就是這樣子是不是請委員支持我這部分我憑尊潔的原則來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
22756.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
22770.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
這個文宣宣傳費用怎麼處理你就二十分之一看料就改為是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
22771.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
22799.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
是 這個我是真的知道的啦連那個機器人比賽都有啦蘇昭也不知道 我知道啦場地租金這麼貴都要五千多萬喔一個場地租金比賽幾天南港展覽館這麼貴喔幾天加上錢五天好 那我對媒體宣傳費用比較有感啦老實說其他無所謂啦該給的就給啦 該花的就花啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
22800.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
22827.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
但宣傳要有效果沒有效果的宣傳如果大家職校大家都知道的話事實上只是宣傳給職校的學生看的話應該好像也不用花這麼多宣傳費超過一成的確也太多了那我們可以因為剛剛有說宣傳費是五千萬我想我們會應該有權利知道說五千萬到底這個宣傳費用是怎麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
22829.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
22855.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
支出的方式因為畢竟蠻多的這麼大的一筆錢這個比我們之前在說救安基金辦演唱會爛拍廣告那個錢還要多主要是我們因為這些活動他的舉辦的前跟後呢我們希望說能夠透過包括平面媒體跟網路媒體電視媒體等等去做這個訊息的一個揭露這個部分的費用會是最高的佔了一半左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
22856.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
22883.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
主要是採購通路去做這樣這個訊息的曝光另外就是我們在將近50個職類這樣子的一個規模每一個職類我們都希望能夠拍一個解說的一個影片那這個解說的影片可以讓不同的系科的高職生跟參賽的這些學生他們可以知道說每一個職類我們所關注的競賽的焦點跟他們的一個功夫會是在哪邊那這個部分的一個影片的一個拍攝剪輯而且要做成四國語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
22884.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
22913.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
這個部分又會有1000萬的一個經費上的一個需求那除此之外還有本身整個國際賽這個亞洲賽的一個形象的一個廣告那這個跟我們這個亞洲技能組織這邊要有一些合作這裡面會有形象廣告的一個影片的拍攝那還有在整個執行前後前中後過程當中的一些網路行銷活動的一個宣傳等等這個也會有數百萬的一個規模所以這裡面整個詳細的內容我們其實可以再提供給委員這邊來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
22918.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
22943.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
亞洲賽事三十年來第一次辦沒有 因為那個是要提前兩三年去跟亞洲競爭組織去做申請那我是在三年前知道這件事情申請的 好啦那我是個人是覺得如果是第一次申請然後要舉辦亞洲賽事那我想六千就六千吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
22944.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
22969.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
好啦 第一次就給人家了好不好OK 報告 因為我們之後因為你說要拍這麼多支國際宣傳的影片然後翻成四國語言之後我們也會去看您的點閱數啊因為之前你們在高雄拍的那個演唱會是慘不聞毒是 這個部分我們主要都是製作的一個費用那這個部分我會特別留意在後續的一個曝光盡量讓它可以被大家可以看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
22970.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
22975.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
我知道製作費用貴可是製作費用也要貴的有價值嘛是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
22977.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
23000.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
好 謝謝陳委員的提醒齁好 我們第29案齁就剛剛講的 就是我們台灣第四辦嘛 對不對對嘛 第四辦 第四辦理委員也願意同意給他通過嘛那些人不曉得在笑什麼齁 請部長要小心一下好 29案就不動不散照這樣通過是主決議 主決議 主決議要改主決議那個 理委要改主決議還是要撤案 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
23009.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
23030.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
對啊好那就改為主決議好不好請趕快把主席送到主席台來好繼續第30案第30案我們廖偉祥委員這邊同意謝謝委員這邊同意改併案併第9案改成凍結就業安定基金服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費300萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
23033.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
23044.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
好 順順就變通過第31案第31案我們邱振軍委員這邊同意並按凍結運用多元培訓模式辦理失業者及特定對象職業訓練100萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
23047.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
23064.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
好 第三十三案就照並案通過第三十二案第三十二案謝謝蘇清泉蘇委員同意改成主決議已簽署好 謝謝蘇召委改為主決議通過第三十三案第三十三案邱振軍委員這邊同意改為主決議已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
23065.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
23093.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
好 謝謝卿委員 改為主決議通過第三次案第三次案也謝謝王正旭委員同意改為主決議已簽署好 請王委員謝謝主席讓我機會來針對這個問題再做確認我同意改成主決議也謝謝今天部長有告訴我們說目前113年的失業率是3.38%那也比去年降了0.1%看起來都非常美好 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
23094.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
23119.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
那我今天中午去跟南非的這個國會議員他們來參訪他們說他們國家目前的失業率是超過40%他們非常羨慕我們在台灣的這個都有這麼好的這個失業率的控制所以他很希望跟台灣有更多的交流不過我們擔心的是在112年的資料告訴我們說15歲到29歲的青年的失業率是8% |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
23121.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
23139.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
似乎是有超過一半的這個一半一倍左右的這個嘛所以這一方面可能應該要如何來讓這個青年的職能開發的業務可以更為全面這部分就是希望能夠要持續來努力的地方是 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
23142.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
23156.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
謝謝王委員指教但因為這幾年是因為經濟狀況比較好所以其實失業率比較低可是我們也不會以這個失業率的數字來自滿其實我們當然在檢視我們有很多就業輔助跟就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
23157.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
23180.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
辅导相关的工作都还有一些精进的空间那尤其针对年轻人部分那我们也特别在意其实行政院也特别在意这个部分所以我们还是会即便这个数字看起来不高可是我们还是会愿意来做一个更大程度的精进尤其是我们看到这几年年轻人的就业的形态其实确实有些不一样的部分那我们怎么政策可以接轨上这部分我们会很关心这件事情好 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
23181.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
23206.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝王委員第三十四案就是改為主決議通過第三十五案第三十五案謝謝我們邱正軍委員同意併第十二案凍結兩百萬元而且修正凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署好 第三十五案就併案通過併案修正通過了來 第三十六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
23206.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
23235.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
第三十六案謝謝楊二委員同意併第十二第三十五案凍結促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案兩百萬元已簽署好第三十六案並通過繼續第三十七案第三十七案謝謝蘇星泉委員同意併第十二三五三六案凍結兩百萬元修正凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署好 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
23237.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
23244.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
謝謝蘇昭偉第三期案就變通過第三十八案第三十八案謝謝我們盧縣議委員同意改為主決議已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
23247.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
23267.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
好謝謝陳委員那就給改委處決通過第40案第39案對不起第39案是我們陳決委員關切的是勞動部在補助地方政府成立銀髮人才服務據點這個據點的籌設的過程似乎有延後執行的一個狀況導致他的預算執行率偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
23267.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
23291.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
要求要研議精進的相關作為那這個部分我們會跟續的跟地方政府來合作並且請他在規劃籌設相關的進度的時候要依照實際的需求來規劃辦理這個案子是不是懇請委員同委員已經同意並第十二三五三六三七案凍結兩百萬元凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
23292.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
23317.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
對我補充一下112年你的預算執行率只有69.09%另外這個後來又跟你們調了資料婦女的再就業率執行率113年74.5%114年更糟糕是70%所以凍結就是如您講的啦凍結200萬然後希望你們可以回去加強謝謝謝謝謝謝沈委員這個我們繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
23319.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
23322.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
好謝謝陳委員那39案就併案通過第40案第40案謝謝蘇清泉委員同意併第12、35、36、37、39案併案凍結200萬元修正凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
23340.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
23360.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
好 謝謝蘇昭偉 第四案就並通過 第四十一案第四十一案謝謝邱政軍委員同意併第十二三五三六三七三九四十等案併案凍結兩百萬修正凍結科目為促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
23360.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
23381.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
好 41案並案通過 繼續第42案第42案謝謝蘇清泉委員同意改為凍結200萬元修正凍結科目為特定對象及弱勢者就業業務的促進特定對象及弱勢者等就業服務就案已簽署好 謝謝蘇昭瑋 那就並案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
23382.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
23393.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
第43案廖偉強委員非常感謝委員支持同意改為凍結服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費1000萬元並第9案跟第30案已簽署好42案併案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
23401.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
23409.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
第44案謝謝楊要委員同意改為病案凍結辦理僱用及就業獎助業務就案50萬元已簽署好謝謝楊委員那就44案變通過第45案 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
23416.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
23431.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
第45案謝謝我們主席劉委員這邊同意改為併前一案第44案凍結辦理僱用及就業講述業務就案50萬元已簽署謝謝主席好謝謝45案併40案通過接下來第46案 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
23435.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
23453.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
第46案謝謝蘇清泉委員同意改為凍結100萬元已簽署好謝謝蘇昭偉事實上就改為凍結100萬通過47案第47案我們陳金輝委員所關切的是我們在議後呢有推動改善缺工的一個擴大就業方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
23453.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
23480.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
那這個方案的執行率包括他的媒合就業的人數偏低應該要再進一步研議可以精進可行的一個方案那經過跟委員溝通拜會那我們也願意來繼續來努力那委員同意改為凍結促進國民就業100萬元已簽署是謝謝因為這個媒合就業人數只有達到你目標值的三成所以希望可以看到你的改善精進方案然後我們再來接凍謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
23482.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
23494.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
是這個部分我們在今年會針對這個義後缺工的一個方案的部分再做檢討檢討的依據第一個是來自於過去的執行經驗第二個是在這段時間我也不斷的拜會的這個業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
23497.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
23514.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
這個包括旅宿業、餐飲業等業者所以這個部分他們所提出來包括一些未來我們徵才如何去強化精準媒合包括體驗室的一個活動以及相關獎勵的一個做法規定做一些調整這個部分我們都會納入新的所以之前不夠精準的地方是 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
23514.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
23539.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
主要是說因為我們在媒合的過程當中有一些勞工朋友他可能覺得說聽起來這個就業機會他願意結果媒合成功以後他發現上工以後有一些跟他原來想像期待有一些落差或者是雇主也覺得這個勞工朋友他願意的話他雇用進來結果發現他所開的一個規格條件不夠精準導致他用進來的人他覺得不符合他的預期那這個東西未來我們都會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
23540.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
23546.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
結合這個事業單位提供資訊的時候做再更清楚的一個勾勒讓這個資訊能夠更透明更充足謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
23549.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
23570.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
好 謝謝陳委員 那47案就改動促進國民健康月華100萬嘛通過 那48案第48案 謝謝我們邱振軍委員同意改為主決議已簽署好 就改為主決議48案通過第49案49案的部分的話 謝謝楊耀委員同意把它改成主決議已經簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
23572.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
23580.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
好謝謝楊委員19案改為處決通過第50案謝謝主席劉委員這邊同意改為併案凍結促進國民就業計畫200萬元併案的案案員包括14案15案16案等已簽署好50案併案修正會通過第51案第51案謝謝楊要委員同意改為凍結50萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
23600.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
23617.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
好改動50萬50案通過第52案第52案謝謝廖偉強委員同意併案凍結服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費1000萬元那併的案別包括第9案第30案第43案好50案併案通過接下來53案 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
23621.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
23651.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
第五十三案,我们承接委员这边所关切的是我们办理亚洲技能竞赛相关业务里面,这个业务是属于新增的大型计划,但是所编列的没宣费用占10%以上,那相关的一个编列的一个内涵呢,没有看到完整的规划,那经过拜会之后,委员同意并按改为冻结参加国际技能组织赛事及交流访问,办理亚洲技能竞赛相关业务100万元已签署, |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
23653.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
23674.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
53 54是併在一起動100萬所以之後希望看到後續你們發包的項目還有金額的細節謝謝首導謝謝委員好那53 54就是併案然後改動100萬通過接下來第55案第55案謝謝蘇清泉委員同意改3減1000萬元一千數 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
23677.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
23705.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
好第五十五案就改三減一千萬通過五十六案 第五十六案謝謝邱政軍委員同意改為三減五百萬已簽署好五十六案就改為三減五百萬通過五十七案 第五十七案我們邱政軍委員謝謝同意改為組決議已簽署好五十七案改組決議通過繼續五十八案 第五十八案謝謝楊委員同意改為併案凍結五十萬元已簽署好五十八案改凍結五十萬通過 五十九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
23706.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
23730.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
第五十九案我們謝謝召委這邊同意改為併五十八案凍結五十萬元已簽署五九併案通過接下來六十案第六十案謝謝養育委員這邊同意改為三減一百萬元已簽署好六十案三減一百萬通過六十一案六十一案這個是邱正義委員的提案同意改組決議已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
23733.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
23753.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
60案改為主決議好60案改為主決議通過62案62案是林淑媛委員的提案謝謝委員能夠支持也改為主決議已簽署好62案也改為主決議通過接下來63案63案陳議員的已經同意的3.1百萬已簽署好63案改例100萬通過64案 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
23755.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
23763.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
第六十三謝謝蘇清泉委員那同意改為三減兩百萬元以簽署謝謝蘇昭偉六十三就改列兩百萬改減列兩百萬通過第六十五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
23775.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
23783.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
第65案謝謝陳英委員同意併案凍結外國人聘僱管理及許可計劃100萬元已簽署第66案謝謝陳英委員同意改為凍結200萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
23791.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
23813.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
好 改動兩百萬 六十六案通過好 接續六十七案 第六十七案謝謝我們蘇金權委員同意改為凍結一百萬元已簽署好 謝謝蘇昭偉 六十七案改動一百萬通過六十八案 第六十八案謝謝屯級委員同意並第六十五案凍結一百萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
23815.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
23817.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
第69案謝謝邱正軍委員同意併案65 68兩案併案凍結100萬元已簽署併案凍結100萬通過70案 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
23832.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
23858.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
第70案我們林淑芬委員關切的是我們的移工的職聘中心過去我們的職聘移工的這個引進的一個方式他的服務的占比很低那希望我們能夠針對職聘的一個效能能夠再做精進那以印度移工引進為例希望能夠提高國對國的職聘的比率能夠達到50%為目標要求要提出具體可行的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
23858.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
23878.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
那這個案子在職聘的效能上一直都是勞動部被很多的委員關切的一個方向畢竟如何能夠降低仲介在中間的一些這個可能的一個不必要的干預這個部分我們一直要努力那目前我們在方向上第一個包括職聘中心我們希望能夠擴增服務的據點 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
23879.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
23905.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
在今年看有沒有機會能夠再增加另外在中部跟南部各一個據點同時呢我們也希望這樣執聘中心能夠做到國跟國之間的直接互動我們也希望能夠增加海外選工的工作的一個範圍包括機構的看護或者是家庭的一個看護能夠再盡量去做這個部分的一個嘗試跟來源國來做溝通那所以這個部分我們會繼續來努力至於在印度移工這個部分的引進要拉高到50%關鍵會在於 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
23907.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
23930.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
印度方因為目前印度沒有職聘的經驗跟基礎所以就這個部分他們對於職聘的概念理解是模糊的那我們在過去的一次的工作經驗包括會前會等等一直在跟他們溝通台灣的職聘模式是怎麼樣運作那希望說能夠讓他們在理解的情況之下也跟我們一起來發展國對國的職聘這樣的一個機制那這個部分我們會繼續來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
23931.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
23959.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
那一旦我們做到目前的階段成果之後我們會進一步再把這個引進的一個職併這個比率再盡量的來滾動減少來拉高那是不是可以懇請委員同意這個部分可以支持我們首先我想這個錢應該是還是要保留所以凍結改成一千萬但是我們的要求要不要改變我是覺得要求是我們是要求你提出具體的改革計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
23960.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
23973.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
我沒有要求你馬上做到50%但是因為印度的國對國模式是可以擺脫我們過去數十年來都把國家的責任都叫這些仲介團體去辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
23975.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
23990.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
然後讓不少這個不當的剝削的狀況層出不窮那因為像以韓國為例韓國也都已經沒有所謂的仲介的角色了韓國整個制度運作起來就是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
23991.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
24020.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
那你說印度沒有這樣的一個經驗那我想也不用太擔心因為印度未來連韓國都可能要去那裡選工所以他們會發展得很快但我們不能不準備也不能沒有企圖所以我們是說你要提出一個改革計畫那以譬如說職聘達到50為目標為一個理想不是叫你馬上做到那你提出一個推動政治的改進的這一個計畫出來看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
24024.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
24032.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
其實我們在幾次跟應方的溝通裡面都不斷的讓應方知道我們對於職聘的這個方式的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
24034.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
24052.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
當然硬方他也有他們他們習慣跟目前他們其實的一些的做法的思考但我們持續還是跟他溝通中但是每一次我們都有讓硬方知道說包括我們的國會都很關心職聘這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
24052.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
24080.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
那也希望執聘這件事情未來可以再跟印方的這個印度的移工引進裡面能夠有更多的機會跟更多的可能性我們不斷的在跟印方但你們跟他們表達這個意思的時候有談出具體的操作的具體的然後操作的方法讓他們可以理解嗎因為沒有道理這個移工的輸出母國不 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
24082.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
24090.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
選擇對他們的移工是比較友善而且是高度比較照顧的執聘方案而去選擇仲介 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
24093.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
24120.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
但是他們能不能想像說這樣的操作是什麼操作他們的障礙到底是在哪裏其實我們還在溝通中但有一些涉及到雙方在工作會議裏面溝通的細節可能不一定全然都適合在這邊來但我的意思是說你們有告訴他們操作的模式是顯然比仲介還更好的而且是可行的我們有很清楚的讓也讓應方知道說我們其實是非常重視指評這件事情我們對這件事情的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
24120.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
24143.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
那你要提出具體可行的方法給人家看對但是因為這涉及到雙方的因為台灣的職聘做得不好第一個台灣的職聘做得不好所以剛才那個署長說他要把這個服務中心增加這個我們是樂觀其成但是就是說職聘做得不夠好不好那你要提出一個具體的方案給印度參考我的意思是說你們提了出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
24148.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
24170.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
還是跟委員報告這個部分我們會先把我們目前的一個操作的一個經驗先讓運方有那個理解但我們操作的經驗對於移工是不友善的可敬信是不高的那不然我是這樣想就是說我知道委員會很關注我其實我自己很關注關於怎麼樣把職聘J鬼真的能夠做出真的能夠做出效能出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
24170.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
24199.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
他的可操作性很重要他的可敬性很重要那因為我們這邊當然動一千萬嘛我是覺得那不然我們動一千萬然後我們還是再看提出一個我們怎麼樣子精進執聘這一個做法要精進執聘的做法他的操作就是說不管是申請方或者是說要來台灣工作的外籍移工或是台灣的僱主他們在網路上操作的可敬性要相當高 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
24201.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
24218.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
我們或是在那個行政作業上的這個可進性要相當的高不能夠障礙重重因為我們願意提出一個是相關的這個怎麼樣增進這個是全面性的是是是因為包括我們接下來也會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
24218.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
24245.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
包括中部那個中分署或幾個地方要來設置這個職聘的分中心那我們也希望這個職聘的分中心能夠跟我們包括相關關心的團體來來商討怎麼樣真的把它給做出好的效能不是像過去的狀況因為我事實上我質詢的時候也談過嘛很多團體也反映過嘛就是說光是申請的不管是從移工端想要來的兩邊磨合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
24247.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
24266.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
那個操作的界面還有那個友善程度是相當的差的是對那我們這樣我們提我們提來提針對這個增進職聘的部分精進職聘的部分提出一個報告這樣子好不好這樣子這個精進的部分是了那另外一點你沒有回答的就是說那我們的印度移工我們對國對國職聘 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
24269.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
24291.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
你現在以現行5%為原則這個也太少因為現在才50個人對這個只是初期跟林委員說明因為坦白說我說就國內我們其實能夠做到的職聘精進這部分我們可以來提出但是因為跟硬方之間這當然有點涉及到雙方所以確實不完全操控在我們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
24293.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
24310.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
全部能夠操控在我們自己手上因為這裡面有涉及到硬方的這個我知道但是就是說那至少我們國會這裡的要求是說希望你至少要達到50%做不到那你們可以做到什麼哪一個你們5%做得到為什麼10%做不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
24311.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
24327.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
我們這樣好不好因為林委員的這個提案是針對這個印度移工的因為舊的那些那幾個輸出國輸出母國他們的模式都已經是運作都已經是仲介在控制當中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
24328.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
24352.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
當然你的精進執聘專案這個精進改善的方案看能不能再繼續提高執聘的比例這是我不敢說原木求魚啦但是其實是很困難重重的那因為印度的國對國執聘是我們期許是可以打破過去就有的由仲介壟斷的移工輸入的政策模式嘛那所以為什麼一直講印度並不是說只有印度 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
24352.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
24378.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
其實我們希望是方向是朝那個方向那印度是新的模式新的開發的來源國那所以我們在想說這個地方很重要是這樣子那針對印度你們可以有什麼樣的方案國內的執聘中心增加那你們去精進執聘制度的這個所有的改善的可靜性操作性有算程度把它精進起來那就印度這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
24380.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
24408.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
這個新開發的這個輸出股我們要做什麼我覺得我們會持續還是會持續跟硬方溝通我們對執聘這件事情的重視那我們當然我自己也不覺得關於5%這件事情其實是真的是比較低的所以我也希望能夠做到高於5%坦白說是這樣但是真的在跟硬方的溝通裡面這涉及到雙方的事情不完全真的不完全操之在我方這個我知道但是雙方這個這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
24410.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
24438.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
協商的時候就是工作會議裡面討論的時候本來就是你知道談判就是這樣子你提出一個那他們不能接受那再請他們再提出一個我看我們能不能接受就是你來我往give and take這樣好不好我們來我覺得我們可以把解凍的條件設定一個是提出一個這個現在當然是以5%為底線來未來來擴大的一個精進的做法的方案我說跟硬方之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
24439.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
24451.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
可是到底能夠做到哪一個數字坦白說這個當然我們當然是希望越高越好可是確實現在涉及到因為你們只有端出來大家都在期許期待結果端出來是5%所以讓人家感覺非常失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
24455.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
24475.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
是不是让我们先跟硬方先建立模式让他知道这个对他的国民是有好处的与其透过仲介不如透过我们这种模式来操作那他一旦觉得这个对他的国民是有好处的我们才有办法对啊但你的模式啊现在就是你模式包括你的制度要精进啊你现在制度不友善可信性很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
24476.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
24503.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
這個人家不會相信你是要做真的如果說在談判過程我發現你對方講的都是假話那我何必把你認真呢對不對你的職聘制度是不友善的可敬性不高的你們講說要國會議員很重視所以我們希望你們印度趕快也要來重視讓我們來談國對國的這個職聘印度好不好聽了說其實你們可敬性這麼低插座性這麼差然後友善程度這麼差你都說假的說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
24505.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
24515.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
你要說請韓國那種制度端出來 人家相信這個操作起來是可行的你的操作起來是可行的 人家才會願意認真跟你們談吧好啦 是不是一樣動一簽嘛 它相關的因應作為的辦法提供出來之後 使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
24526.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
24543.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
還是報告很報告對現在都沒有問題就動議簽是共識嘛現在是說你要要求他做什麼的問題他要這個執聘分中心他要廣設嘛 要增加啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
24544.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
24570.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
然後對於植病制度他要去精進那第三個就是說就印度這個個案要怎麼要求的問題是不是你們你們想想看就提供一個報告出來給你是不是就拜託委員我們照您剛所提的這三個重點我們來提出一個那個書面的一個檢討跟規劃的報告經濟法院同意後才可以公知好可以OK好那這個案子委員是不是同意我們是用基金用途來做這個凍結數1000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
24573.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
24596.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
你要到上面去喔好啦隨便啦OK你要做我們就重點是我們要改好第四案第七十案就改動一千萬謝謝委員好通過那接續第七十一案再來第七十一案謝謝蘇清泉委員同意改為主決議好謝謝蘇昭惟第七十一案改主決議通過第七十二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
24596.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
24617.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
第72案我們王玉敏委員關切的是我們外國人聘僱管理許可計劃裡面所編的媒體政策及業務宣導費在過去的一個執行狀況以112年為例執行率不佳只有8成3那其中外國人聘僱許可業務的執行率更低所以這個部分請我們確實來檢討那經過跟委員溝通這個確認委員同意改成動50萬元以簽署謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
24626.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
24650.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
好第七十三案改動五十萬通過第七十二案第七十三案改動五十萬通過第七十三案第七十三案謝謝陳昭之委員同意併同第十第二十第二十四案併案簡列服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費一千萬元為簽署好七十三案併案通過第七十三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
24651.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
24658.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
第74案謝謝陳導致委員同意併同第25 2674案併案刪減服務費用推展費300萬元已簽署好 74案併案通過第75案 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
24665.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
24688.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
第75案我們王正旭委員這邊非常感謝同意併同第65、68、69案併案凍結外國人聘僱管理及許可計劃100萬元已簽署好請問委員這個部分我再確認一下因為我們知道很多的外籍移工他都是在育齡的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
24689.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
24709.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
在台灣前一陣子媒體有報導其實他們的下一代就變成可能是一個無一兒少的這個社會問題那這個社會問題基本上我們就需要這些兒少的權利來加以保障所以看起來就安定基金就用了兩千七百多萬來做安置 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
24710.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
24730.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
那在衛護部那邊又需要引進這相關的這個業務的費用來協助照顧這一群的這個無業兒少又花了這個1400多萬所以兩者加起來就用了這個4200多萬那更重要就是很多的醫療照顧需求會變成呆帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
24731.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
24757.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
這個帶上就變成是公立醫院的一個很大的困擾所以如何能夠精進這方面的照顧或者是改善那剛剛所提到的我對國的這些職聘將來在處理的時候能不能也把這些可能造成的問題也納為在這個處理過程當中的一些訴求讓他們如果知道未來不管是職聘或者是有其他仲介之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
24758.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
24784.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
把這些要求也都能夠納為規範的這個內容的話希望能夠減少在台灣這方面的困擾所以我不知道針對這部分可不可以請部長或者是同仁能夠來再妥善處理是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提點第一個有關我們的移工朋友他在來台灣這個部分所生育所衍生的這些問題其實據我們過去的一個調查了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
24785.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
24811.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
女性移工朋友來台灣懷孕絕大部分差寫是非計劃內的所以是那個意外所以我們希望說再提醒他如何做生育的一些預防或者是說做一些準備做一些規劃我們有這個移工懷孕的一個指引提醒他再如何避孕然後一旦真的懷孕的過程當中他相關的工作權益跟社會適應相關的資源等等從懷孕前然後呢懷孕 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
24811.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
24840.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
过程当中跟生产之后包括这个养育的部分我们有提供这样一个指引的资讯来给他做参考但是更重要的说那如果一旦发生了这样子的一个生育的状况所衍生的这些无依跟有依而少的部分我们目前是结合卫福部跟移民署这边来提供相关的安置跟后续的一个处理的服务那这边我们会继续用跨部会的一个力量来处理这个部分那从源头管理搭配后续的这个部分的一个处理希望能够把这个问题能够减到最轻 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
24848.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
24859.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
因為當初就是在簽約的時候對仲介也沒有任何約束力或者是希望他們也能夠就責提供相關的這些費用後面的處理這個是那時候也跟部長討論過這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
24861.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
24886.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
這部分當然我們是希望能夠讓這個仲介其實他在這個仲介在這個過程裡面其實他有他的賺到了一些利潤他應該在這邊其實有些責任包括我們其實透過可能仲介的評鑑或者是相關的一些工具希望能夠督促仲介能夠在這部分承擔更多的責任當然這個工作坦白說並不容易做可是我覺得我們會盡還是會盡力的來要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
24890.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
24904.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
好所以第75案就併案併案凍結100萬元併案凍結100萬通過繼續第76案第76案謝謝廖偉強委員這個案子同意併案凍結服務費用媒體政策及業務宣導費1000萬元併的是第9案第30案第43案跟第52案已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
24919.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
24947.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
好 76案就是病案來修正後通過第77案第77案我們王玉明委員關切的是我們的移工失聯的問題所以連帶衍生的後續的治安跟社會的問題等等所以希望我們要強化改善失聯移工的這個狀況那目前我們對於這個失聯移工的已經從預防面跟查處面宣導面等等去做加強處理那跟委員溝通敗會以後委員同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
24948.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
24955.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
并按冻结外国人聘雇管理及许可计划100万元并的案别是65、68、69、75案委员已签署 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
24959.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
24984.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
這案我再補充說明一下因為之前我還曾經召開一個記者會就是說我們有這個移工他應該已經回到要回到他母國結果他到桃園機場的時候他已經進了這一個即將要進這個安檢結果他在中途竟然可以變裝變裝之後呢就很順利的看著那個影蛋他就很順利的又 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
24985.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
25012.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
出去機場了然後就不見了然後就失聯了那像這樣子的一個環節這個是因為當時有這個有人陳情我們才發現業者說我明明把移工都送到機場了然後結果接到通知說我的移工跑了他就覺得怎麼可能結果掉引帶出來才發現真的就眼睜睜看著他走進去機場了結果呢一路掉這個引帶才發現他中間可以變裝然後就可以退出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
25015.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
25041.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
就是其實也沒有人在看管喔那這個議題我不知道到目前為止你們跟這個移民署這邊或跟機場這邊你們有達成什麼樣的共識嗎在SOP上面就是你們要做怎麼樣的處理嗎因為這的確就是漏洞嘛那我是不知道經由這樣子的方法我高度懷疑這不是第一例啦因為他會這樣子一定是有人教 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
25042.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
25069.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
那如果不是第一例的話過去有多少已經循著這個漏洞其實就是變成是逃逸的勞工那像類似這一種你們在解決失聯移工就是你從源頭上面你的SOP方面有一些是可以可以去你應該可以去處理的應處理而未處理而導致就是這樣的狀況你看你現在累計我這邊的提案還少了因為現在最新的統計已經破9萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
25070.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
25098.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
那剛剛我們還提到我們印度其實也要開放新的移工進來但是你這個原來的問題我現在看起來勞動部跟移民署好像你們找不到什麼方法去減緩這個外籍移工就是持續逃逸的這樣的一個現象你們到底有沒有持續在研擬一些新的做法那你先回答我我當時開記者會要求你們要改善的這個你們現在在SOP上面到底有沒有做什麼樣的調整那第二個問題是你們現在針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
25101.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
25126.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
就是移工失業人數創新高現在已經破9萬了到底你們跟移民署有沒有持續性有一些專案跟對策來處理跟委員報告上一次我也有提到質詢的時候有提到這個案子那其實我們有檢討這個部分一方面固然是移工沒有那個仲介沒有擅進他的一個接受僱主委託所做的這個職責所以這個部分固然仲介部分有一定的責任再來一個就是有關在機場裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
25128.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
25141.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
的動線尤其進到管制區之前這個部分似乎我們在跟機場這邊其實還有一些值得再去做檢討的一個地方這個未來都其實應該去做檢討跟精進包括對目前這個部分還 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
25144.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
25163.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
跟委員說明一下後來我們有跟這個包括機場公司跟航警局聯繫那航警局這邊呢也表示說之後只要周邊公司有這樣子認為移工可能會有失聯的疑慮在送進管制區之前可以來通報航警局還有我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
25164.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
25179.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
勞動部的機場服務站的人員可以來配同那這樣送進去管制區之後呢那如果有其他增益的等等事項需要申訴我們的機場服務站的人員可以協助他處理所以人還是應該要搭機回去那申訴的事項我們會留下來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
25182.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
25195.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
這個部分我建議你們要做出一個很完整的SOP也不會什麼都推給這個中介業者因為那個案例我看到情況是他真的已經送他到機場也看著他走進去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
25196.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
25222.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
然後但是還是出現這樣一個情況所以我覺得你們在SOP你們各自的責任應該要做到什麼然後譬如說你若要讓中介業者提出申請那你的窗口是什麼他可以透過什麼樣的管道我覺得你們現在其實都沒有我希望你們再開一次的專案會議把這個流程就走清楚了這個是我們很顯而易見我們可以去防堵的就應該要這樣子做那第二個你們現在到底跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
25223.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
25242.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
移民署沒有持續性的會議這些九萬名的這種失聯的移工到底這個問題你們想要怎麼處理因為他衍生真的還蠻多問題剛剛王正旭委員提到的是就是還有這個小孩子他可能沒有國籍沒有戶籍然後他的身份權也沒有受到保障的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
25243.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
25263.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
好謝謝委員那想這個協調部分我們會馬上來處理確立這個SOP讓我們仲介同業業者可以來通報那第二個部分我們現在持續跟內政部移民署以及國安單位一樣每年都有在定期的檢討相關的措施包括在預防的部分由我們勞動部跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
25263.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
25289.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
一些新的或者是持續開放的這些產業部會那對於移工的一些管理對於雇主的宣導這個也請他們持續的再協助那務必要提高我們的這個雇主的法尊第二個部分就是在茶的部分呢我們也跟移民署跟國安單位也持續在合作所以也跟委員報告在113年移工的失聯率其實已經降到3點多% |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
25290.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
25318.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
跟我們111年5點多趴來比的話已經下降蠻多的那持續在查處非法移工跟非法僱主的人數也由我們移民署來跟公安單位來持續有在查處 人數一樣也有增加那以113年來講大概有查過2.3萬人左右好 謝謝說明這樣OK齁好 謝謝王委員那這739病案來通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
25319.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
25329.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
好現在如果委員不在現場就不用再謝謝了我們就快一點齁78案陳委員的案子來請說明78案陳英委員這邊同意併案凍結外國人聘僱管理許可計劃100萬併的案別包括65 68 69 75 77好78案併案通過79案79案楊耀委員這邊已經同意改成凍結200萬可併案委員已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
25346.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
25359.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
好 七十九案變案改動兩百萬通過八十案八十案那謝謝召委這邊同意併同七十九案凍結兩百萬已簽署好 八十併七十九案來通過七十一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
25360.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
25377.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
八十一岸 對不起八十一岸那八十一岸陳軍委員這邊關切的也是職聘中心的一個被使用的狀況不是很理想那也檢討我們的一個調查報告也顯示僱主沒有使用職聘的原因是因為沒有後續的代辦跟管理的一個服務也沒有時間親自辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
25378.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
25394.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
以及申请文件复杂等等那这个部分还有待改善那经过跟委员这边沟通委员同意这个后续呢冻结救安基金外国人聘雇管理及许可计划外国人聘雇许可业务向下200万元已签署 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
25395.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
25422.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
對這邊是根據你們自己出版的移工管理及運用調查報告有五成的雇主是不知道職聘的所以這個成效真的太差了希望未來的經濟方案你們可以把這些他們覺得沒有辦法使用這個服務的缺點都把它整合起來所以動兩百萬謝謝謝謝委員指導好改動兩百萬八十案通過繼續八十二案第八十案楊耀委員這邊同意改為凍結一百萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
25423.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
25440.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
好 八十二案改動一百萬通過 繼續八十三案八十三 謝謝王議員的提案也同意改為主決議已簽署 謝謝好 八十三改主決議通過 八十四案第八十四案陳昭智委員同意改為檢列一百萬元已簽署好 八十四案檢列一百萬通過 八十五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
25442.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
25463.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
85案 林月琴委員已經改動結50萬 已經簽署好 80萬 改動50萬 通過86案 86案 感謝昭緯改成主決議 已經簽署 謝謝好 那就改成主決議 通過87案 第67案 鋪圈紀委已經簽名撤案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
25463.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
25489.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
好 八千次案 第八十八案他也同意但是因為他漏簽了他現在回選區了不會出席會議所以就不予處理嘛八十八案不予處理好八十九案八十九案陳比宇委員這裡面也簽署一個組決議了改為八十九案改組決議通過九十案九十案陳穎委員同意改為 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
25490.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
25516.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
檢列100萬已簽署90 改檢列100萬通過91 案91 案圖權級委員同意改為主決議已簽署好 91 案改為主決議通過92 案92 案楊耀委員同意改為凍結100萬不檢列已簽署92 改為凍結100萬通過9393 案邱正英委員已經同意簽署改為主決議好 93 改為主決議通過93 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
25517.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
25538.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
90案王玉明委員關切的是我們救安基金的這個這個資用的一個合一性的問題那經過溝通拜會之後委員同意並案凍結100萬元已簽署好並案改凍100萬90案通過95案第95案謝謝初心泉委員同意改為主決議已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
25539.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
25549.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
好 謝謝蘇昭偉 改為主席通過96案第96案 邱振軍委員同意並第94案凍結一般行政管理計劃服務費用50萬元已簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
25553.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
25570.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
好併九十四案對九六併九四是不是是好那就九六併九四通過九十七案第九十七案謝謝召委這邊同意改為主決議已簽署好這個是同意的啦齁那我還是補充一下給部長跟署長參考這買一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
25571.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
25598.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
叮叮噹噹的東西最好是回歸公務預算吧用這種去買不過跟委員報告這個案子因為我們在發展署這邊如果是新莊沒有問題因為我們沒有直接受理第一線的服務可是我們另外在中華路的事務中心他每天在做的就是受理移工申請案件所以這個部分我們會確實的遵守我們自己所訂的一個規則該用公務的用公務 該用基金用基金好啦 好 就給主席通過了 98案 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
25600.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
25624.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
第98案 謝蘇英權委員主決議我們遵照辦理好 謝謝蘇召委我覺得我們這些基金編列就是主要是部本部或者是公務預算太少然後都在擋這個基金的主意這個我也有跟部長談過 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
25626.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
25642.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
大家都便宜行事然後發生一連串的失誤跟這樣社會過敏所以你本身福利超薪你自己的不本不為乎或是你的公共預算自己要變成酒也要銷售那個基金要給人家拿來演這個當然要不得的這個是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
25647.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].end |
25671.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].text |
感覺這一陣子以來最大的感受希望部裡面也要自己好自為之跟蘇緣說明其實我們在我們救安基金的改革強化把關的方案裡面第一個其實就是表達我們接下來會希望能夠跟行政院來爭取該回到公務預算的就回到公務預算尤其在其他部會裡面是用公務預算編的就用公務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].start |
25671.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].end |
25700.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].text |
那哪些是要用公務預算哪些是用基金我們畫一條線這條線是如果是直接服務勞工的比方說救福中心直接訓練場這是直接服務勞工的我們認為可以用基金可是如果不是直接服務勞工的我們這些行政的支出包括行政的大樓的運作管理等等我們認為就應該用公務預算我們基本上畫在這條線裡面這個大家要搞清楚不要這樣便宜行事我覺得這要不得以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].start |
25701.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].end |
25714.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].text |
蘇昭偉的指示就是台語說不要消避厭啦公義說要大格局啦對啦齁好謝謝好99案主席是陳議委員的提案主決議我們就要辦理已簽署謝謝好99案就照這樣通過100案100案那林月琴委員同意修正主決議文字已簽署好那文字修正要通過接下來101案 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].start |
25727.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].end |
25743.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].text |
101案謝書清權委員同意改為主決議並已簽署好 謝謝 101案改為主決議通過好 現在請宣讀主決議文字修正部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].start |
25744.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].end |
25766.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].text |
第五案及第六案請勞動部於三個月內提出書面報告第三十二案原請勞動部提出書面報告第三十三案請勞動部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面檢討報告第三十四案請勞動部勞動力發展署向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第四十八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].start |
25768.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].end |
25791.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].text |
請勞動部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面檢討報告第57案 刪除凍結術第71案 請勞動部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第89案 請勞動部針對前開要點之食物申請情況及精進作為向提案人及立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].start |
25792.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].end |
25819.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].text |
第93案請勞動部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出精進勞工法律輔助措施書面報告第38案刪除凍結數字凍結文字第87案第二段刪掉凍結文字第100案 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].start |
25822.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].end |
25838.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].text |
第七第七行第七個字開始日前勞動部長這個部分一直刪除文字到勞動基準法第八行勞動基準法之適用第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].start |
25842.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].end |
25864.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].text |
第二行開始且自開始刪除然後改成勞動部對於委員提案勞保撥補及政府負擔最終支付責任入法表達尊重我國千萬勞工懷著無法確認未來退休生活是否得到保障的不安疑慮然後再來第二段刪除凍結文字使得凍資條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].start |
25866.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].end |
25891.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].text |
然後文字改成請勞動部向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出勞保財務改善因應對策第17案刪除簡列簡列的條件然後改成請勞動部向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].start |
25895.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].end |
25921.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].text |
第49案刪除煽動條件然後改成請勞動部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第61案刪除簡列文字然後改成請於三個月內提出書面報告送交立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].start |
25926.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].end |
25947.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].text |
第62案把凍結條件刪除然後改成第二行但相關安全促進計劃各個產業的覆蓋範圍加各個產業然後再倒數第三行改成提出全要求提出全部高風險產業成效書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].start |
25956.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].end |
25984.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].text |
第86案改成請勞動部以使用者為中心概念透過簡易簡明易懂方式呈現工作生活平衡與員工協助方案之概念與推動方式加強優化網站介面取得無障礙規範AA等等級標章充實網站內容新知資訊並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告以立輔導企業推動工作與 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].start |
25988.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].end |
26005.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].text |
平衡措施九十一案第四行開始業務司長達旬時回覆委員質詢其點擊率及宣傳績效所達複製數據實習爭議爆發後民眾聽聞開始為點擊增加與事件發生前事實的點擊率差異甚大然後刪除凍結條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].start |
26019.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].end |
26045.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].text |
第95案改成請於三個月內提出書面報告然後刪除簡列的文字第97案刪除簡列文字然後最後一行改成請就飲水機空氣清淨機汰換率高之問題事實檢討辦公設備之使用效率及實際需求編列相關預算並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].start |
26051.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].end |
26075.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].text |
第一百零一案從第二第二行開始較上年度增加二十一萬兩千元為準決基金預算建議依行政院一一三至一五年政府機關及學校用電效率提升計畫落實執行節電措施把簡列條件刪除第二十九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].start |
26078.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].end |
26081.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].text |
第三行 第一段第三行開始補助計畫高達15%以上然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].start |
26087.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].end |
26110.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].text |
第六行國際技能組織賽事交流訪問7億3900多萬這樣不透明的補助是否合乎基金用途有待商榷第二段開始改成所以檢討技能競賽及國際技能交流活動預算資金費編列與適用範圍為確保資金分配公平合理性用途都在法定支出業務範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].start |
26114.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].end |
26139.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].text |
在三個月內請勞動部提交近三年國際技能賽事參賽成效書面報告以上宣讀完畢好謝謝我們先做一下決議一114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算管理勞動部衛生福利部及環境部主管部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].start |
26141.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].end |
26162.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].text |
均已審查完畢 提報院會討論院會討論前 須交由黨團協商院會討論時 由蘇昭吉委員清選及劉昭吉委員建國補充說明第二 本日審查預算部分 照列或照協商結論通過第三 配合114年度中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].start |
26163.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].end |
26177.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].text |
專案政府總預算審議結果戶屬單位預算非營利特種基金應修正部分授權議事人員整理作為決議列入紀錄好本次會議到此結束散會謝謝大家謝謝 |