| IVOD_ID |
165266 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165266 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T10:43:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T10:56:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3d60c0cb73c5002dd906ee7c1e9a76e5a1bffb99621b7826e29602ffc9a9b6cbf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林思銘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:43:15 - 10:56:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝召委請那個主委我們請彭主委委員長主委早主委有關於虛擬資產服務法草案中對於穩定幣都是關於發行端的規定但是未來末端的消費教育使用才是穩定幣應用普及以及流通性的關鍵所以我要請問主委 |
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是否支持未來讓穩定幣成為日常消費使用的交易貨幣形態之一我想剛剛委員講的沒有錯穩定幣要能夠順利的發展它的應用場景要存在所以剛剛講說應用場景裡面大家現在在提到的有幾個應用場景一個就是日常的支付再來第二個就是可能跨境的所以現在我們金管會的政策就是穩定幣成為日常消費使用交易貨幣的形態是你現在要去極力去發展的 |
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沒有 現在沒有我現在應該這樣講說我們現在是針對穩定幣的發行面進行規範場景的部分它要去形成一個生態圈我剛剛跟文綺講過支付在國外是一個它使用的場景第二個就是跨國交易的匯兌是一個再來就是虛擬資產的交易是另外一個至少我們看到了這個三個場景比如說我們為什麼放在虛擬資產交易服務法裡面 |
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那個虛擬資產服務法裡面主委 這個我都了解其實我想進一步就問你就是說因為我們最重要的還是末端的消費教育使用所以對於這個穩定幣末端消費使用的管控我們是不是會有進一步的規定那當然一定會 去營造穩定的使用環境 |
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136.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們看到現在我們非常普遍的各種的電子支付工具像是LiPay Apple Pay或者接口支付或者一些消費通路商自行發行的電子支付已經非常普遍了所以主委你未來是否有規劃讓穩定幣與這些電子支付或者信用卡的結合穩定幣會跟這些支付工具結合以推廣穩定幣的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
136.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這其實勢必假設穩定開放以後市場就會去尋求他使用的場景我覺得就剛才講過這會是一個支付有可能都會去做規劃你要去規劃不能說有可能我剛剛委員講過就是會一定會觸及到這個問題的規範謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
172.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
另外我們看到央行總裁楊總裁他在10月14號表示台灣當然有發行穩定幣的空間但是要由金融機構來發行但是我們監管會提出的《虛擬資產服務法》的草案中對於穩定幣發行人的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
是穩定幣發行人應設置與維持足額的資產準備準備資產儲存於境內的金融機構也就是並沒有限制發行人必須為金融機構所以這個發行人的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你是否是跟央行的意見一樣因為央行講說是要由金融機構來發行嗎沒有 總裁講的是說我們可能第一階段我們大家的共識因為未來穩定幣的發行是必須要由央行跟金管會共管那我們這裡面因為我們這個法的架構我們會預留未來的彈性我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
236.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
參考MICA就歐盟他們的規定它沒有限定只有金融機構但是我們剛開始的時候我們已經先開始講說基於穩健安全我們先會優先讓金融機構來發行是 所以還是以目前的規劃對 就是這個央行跟我們講是我們第一步是這樣因為你沒限制你現在提供的版本沒有限制母法上面未來假設通過是沒有但是就是說我們會分階段的來做這件事情分階段來做 對其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
263.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主委我是贊成你的意見我想我們為了節省我們台商遵轉的行費與降低匯率的一個價差損應該就是落實讓本國的金融機構來做一個虛擬貨幣交易平台的這樣的業務讓我們境外的台商可以透過我們熟悉的本國銀行進行穩定幣的交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好 接下來這個我們回到剛才那個集會委員關心的太子集團的詐騙案所以我們依據媒體的報導關於太子集團在台涉及洗錢的案子其中這個集團以8家的空殼公司購買了和平大院共11戶 48個停車會10家登錄是高達38億1650萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是我們現在PPT所呈現的我們看到這11戶的返產編號1到7都是5家空殼公司同一位零信負責人出面以現金購買購買時間是在108年的4月到12月總金額高達新台幣24億9千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
336.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以主委這五家空殼公司都是以現金購買它的資金來源橋外資金是 沒錯是橋外資金所以這個20億的資金來源儘管會銀行局對這些橋外資金的來源是否有異樣難道都沒有去監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有 剛剛已經跟委員有做過很明確的說明這裡面其實不全然是他的現金裡面有部分是用借款而來剛剛講的金額差不多是借款而來其中有一部分總額大約30幾億因為剛剛委員講是實價登錄對 實價登錄的金額像比如我們就有針對這去理解我先講1到7是現金購買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
当然去买房子最后的话一定是用现金去买交给建商一粒现金只是说它的来源是自有资金还是从银行贷款而来我一条一条跟你问这编号1到7的都是现金购买五家空壳公司买的所以这几家现金是高达24亿9千多万 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
403.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
金額這麼龐大但是直接付給建設公司還是說用匯款的還是說是用虛擬的貨幣支付金管會有沒有掌握當時有沒有掌握匯款都有金流他用很多是銀行支票去付的因為這個都有透過銀行的帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
404.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
透過這個支票他來自橋外資金啊橋外資的時候我們也有去徵提說你有沒有得到政府的許可他們也都也提出了這樣的一個所以你當時察覺沒有異樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不是沒有異樣我剛才講過就是說其實我們所謂異樣這件事情我們有一套自己的洗房的這些的觸發的機制的通報所以STR這個異常交易的通報其實主委現在你一直強調你們當時認為說這些資金二十幾億你們當時有去調查有去調查你現在強調有去調查嗎就是當時我們現在去看銀行有沒有也認為沒有異樣嘛你們當時認為沒有異樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以就讓他從橋外資金就進來然後去匯給這個建設公司因為現金嘛現金這麼龐大啊你是這個橋外資金進來到底是怎麼樣付給建設公司他的金流的整個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
471.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
不是 我想說這個剛剛 你剛才說你有查因為剛才我這樣我有時間你說你有查但是我只想問你經過這幾年事後的驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這些錢都是詐騙而來的錢都是有問題的錢現在金管會你告訴我們當時都是合法的金管會當時是睡著了嗎如果你要仔細聽我講的話應該不是這樣講就是說那是我們本來銀行本身它就賦予一個必須要去偵測這筆錢的異常要通報的業務通報以後我們整個國家機器會來判斷這件事情是不是該進一步的去做犯罪偵房的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我想我們剛才講就是說因為發生這個事情以後我們的檢察局就直接進入到銀行去調他過去歷史上你每一筆這些交易是否有做到剛才講的他們看到他們都有按照這個規定去做通報我想這一部分銀行都有通報你意思是銀行都有通報剛剛局長也提到就是他們掌握的話至少有通報了五十幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
552.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以這部分來看的話就是說這整個機器是不是能夠完整的去擋下這個東西我覺得問題發生了確實要虛心的檢討但是我剛才講說事後我們要解決問題一定要先了解問題發生在哪裡所以我們剛才就至少我們金流的部分我們就進去好好去了解過去有沒有什麼問題你現在確實是要虛心檢討因為當時你也不是金管會的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你現在當然去追究當時為什麼查不出這些錢是有問題的透過買房來洗錢所以當時我們是認為金管會真的不要推卸責任我沒有 你是延續的你現在雖然當時你不是主委但是當時怎麼會查不出來你虛心檢討的結果到底會是怎樣是你們有失職嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
603.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個現在這麼大的一個經驗一下告訴我說都沒有問題結果事後驗證問題一大堆我一直講沒有問題就是不是這個意思我剛才講過就是說我們想知道民航在做這個生意有沒有他沒有按照我們的規定來做這是一個那規定做到了還是發生這個事情的時候這個案子就告訴我們必須要來好好的調整現在進入檢調的偵查階段我想你們自己內部也是要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
611.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
當然 所以說我們現在已經全面在做包括剛才講比如說購屋的金流這部分我們都在想想看什麼方法對 我一條一條來跟你討論我們剛才講的是編號1到7我們再看編號8到11 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
626.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們再看到它是利用8到11它是利用4家空殼公司跟元大銀行借貸了8億7600萬購買這4戶房產這4家空殼公司其中編號80 11這3戶各貸到跟元大銀行貸到了2億1600萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
662.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個是跟銀行貸款不是現金支付的那這三家空殼公司的資本額只有310萬我就想問這銀行到底是如何的去這個他是用那個存單去值借啦去販貸啊竟然准他貸到各自貸到2億多後來我們去了解他是用存單值借那家公司有匯入 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
663.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
684.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
存款 他用存款做直接的 匯入存款那存款的來源在哪裡就像我們拿個存單去直接是一樣的概念那他的存款來自何處就是剛才講境外的錢也是境外的錢對 就剛才講透過橋外進來所以你不覺得這很奇怪嗎我們覺得奇怪 你有境外的存單你就直接現金買我們銀行就覺得奇怪就通報了所以這是不是就涉及洗錢了但是這個時間是發生在109年5月到109年10月 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
709.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以主委這是很奇怪的資本盒只有310萬可以蓋到這麼多的資金不是他剛才是用存單直接不是用信用直接我想還是不一樣的啦我再強調這筆錢他在113年這6億多這些貸款就還清了所以這很明顯的就是藉由買房子來洗錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
711.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
732.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以金管會你們難道都不用負相關的責任嗎這個獅子很大你們不要一直跟我講說當時都有通報銀行都有通報當時我們稽查當時都沒有問題但是明顯結果論來看整個過程都有問題太多異樣了結果金管會查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
733.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這不是打詐不利嗎我們正在了解當中所以這整個金流這麼多年這麼複雜我們要去了解 何主委這個弊端我還是期許你你真的要去進去去查我們並沒有卸責我只是跟你們報告我們現在的狀況這樣如果不是美國做相關的通報到現在我們都被蒙在鼓裡我們都沒有進一步的去查這個集團有大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
759.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他資金那麼雄厚而且都是橋外資金結果我們竟然毫無知覺讓他這樣子其實我一直講毫無知覺真的不是這樣有知覺有知覺就不應該讓這個事情發生好不好所以我們最後就是希望金管會應該就這個事情你要盡快完成所有的調查監討金流管控上後有什麼問題該扣的錢就給他扣下來都是不法所得好不好以上 謝謝 |