| IVOD_ID |
165257 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165257 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T10:19:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T10:30:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3b86ae9ecf89787cd906ee7c1e9a76e5a1bffb99621b7826eb606aef97113c26b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:19:42 - 10:30:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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那等一會在零四名委員 執行完結束之後我們休息五分鐘主席 在場的委員先進列席了政府經貿事務官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請今晚會彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.782 |
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委員長主委好現在AI很夯那麼我們在談到說使用金融機構你這邊寫AI科技主柵對不對是我們今晚會提出來一個專題報告那麼要建構金融大語言模型AI科技主柵但是有沒有看到有一個報導就是屬於G20當中有一個FSB就是金融穩定委員會他提到了如果金融機構使用相同的人工智慧的AI模型和特定的硬體 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.338 |
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80.405 |
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可能會引發羊群效應主委大家知道什麼是羊群效應嗎知道就是後面的跟著前面走前面的跟著前面的走就是比較不理性的群體行為是的那對於這樣的一個風險今晚會有開始去做一些因應之道嗎其實這個問題一直出現在比如說我們很多科技集中在所謂的幾個比如說Big Five Big Seven這些東西的時候像我們的雲端還有很多的這些科技集中在這裡都有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.834 |
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我確定主委已經了解這個原因可能了那怎麼樣因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.67 |
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我想這件事情就剛才陳總委員提到了就是我們每個階段不一樣那我們就會請他們自己其實坦白講我們在這麼多年來希望建立一個金融機構自我的風險管理的管控機制所以建議他們不要用同樣的AI模型嗎也不是 他很多時候沒有選擇但是他必須在沒有選擇裡面做出最大的選擇做出區隔對 做出最大的選擇這就是我要的就像為什麼一艘船要防水隔艙 要區隔 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.3 |
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151.609 |
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所以金管會未來可不可以針對這個部分在AI的趨勢下先預擬怎麼樣讓各機關如果沒有辦法沒有選擇模型的這個餘地那怎麼樣做出區隔避免大家同一個時間都犯同樣的錯誤可以嗎這也是我們在因為我們的AI 2.0到今年結束我們明年會推出這個下一階段的這個就是我們很重點的好 下一個階段的重點工作好 可以了那我們現在看另外問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.489 |
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181.267 |
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今天台灣的報告最近讓人家很注目他提到安養信託跟以防養老的貸款成效差主委知道這樣的一個報告內容嗎我有看到你有看到那您覺得問題出在哪裡呢其實我先不談安養信託我們先談以防養老問題出在哪裡我覺得是民眾的觀念我覺得在當初我們推出這個想法的時候很多其實這個不是有很精準的這些理論來是不是會他的報告說集中在六都而且幾戶偏低是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.747 |
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207.469 |
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當然就是這個東西它的誘因夠不夠民眾覺得這個成本的問題我簡單分析一下您聽聽看一般來講需要養老的人如果他是高資產族群他根本不需要那麼他的資產不是那麼多他才需要以防養老但是一旦他是屬於這種弱勢族群他就是老年收入不足而且這樣的人有的住在都市有的住在鄉村如果住在都市的人他所持有的物件的價值比較低所以槍的幾乎金額會偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
208.069 |
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229.316 |
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第二 它如果是都在鄉村 它的資產 農舍不具有流通性所以它根本沒有辦法辦以防養老這就是為什麼以防養老集中在六都而且幾乎偏離的原因 是不是這樣當然 比如說以防養老背後的價值還是在於那個抵押的對象的價值跟流動性當然我們大家都知道我們所有房地產裡面最具有流動性還是在都會區裡面的房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
231.016 |
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256.39 |
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所以說我們現在的關心到老後生活突然推出了以防養老但是由於資產價值跟他資產存的流動性的差異造成了城鄉差距也忽略了我們資產所有人他本身的他的強勢跟弱勢好 那我現在跟您請教一個問題最近鬧出了一個大家懸然大波的補充保費請問衛吾吾之前有徵詢過包括我們金管會的相關的意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.21 |
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278.232 |
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就是透過資本利得去取得二代健保的補充保費有沒有跟你們討論過我想石部長自己也說了他在提出這個對媒體說這之前他並沒有跟我們討論過所以事實是如此那您對這個意見的看法呢因為我們知道一代健保是以薪資所得為主到了二代健保把資本利得也加進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.053 |
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300.223 |
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但是如果說我們資本利得是投資證券的話它會有賺有賠那麼投資失利補充保惠也沒有賠投資所得叫補充保惠這是目前很多存股族他們的不滿主委認為這樣的一個補充保惠設定在所得尤其是資本利得會不會是一個健全的財務來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
301.363 |
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315.373 |
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就是102年我們提出補充保費的概念的時候把這個股利收入納入確實剛才陳主委員講的我們的股利收入的本質跟我們的比如說利息所得還是有點差異就陳主委員講的就是說很有可能我們的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.414 |
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鼓勵有所得但是你的這個買賣的可能資本可能不是利得會產生這樣一個問題好那這樣我們來看一下最近中經院的李岩院長提到他說補充保費應該以資產價值而非資本利得來計算你對於以資產價值來衡量站在金管業的立場你覺得呢這是不是一個比較可行的方向譬如說韓國的經驗他把資產納為保費課徵的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.517 |
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369.082 |
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那让保费更能够反映实质的支付能力因为我们知道我们的健保是怎样量能收费对不对你的能力越强不是论病计费我生越多病你跟我说多少钱这是过去没有健保的情况但是我不管生多重的病你跟我说的保费是根据我的能力那么所得是一个能力请问资产是不是一个支付能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
370.102 |
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398.419 |
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那當然你的資產也反映你實質的這個所謂的存量的概念我薪資是我的流量的概念嘛所以如果說未來健保的財務健全考慮以資產的價值來作為一個對象您覺得金管會的立場您會考慮跟衛福部來探討這個問題嗎資產的部分呢可能不是在我這邊所能夠管理資產不是您管理但是您有工具可以去得知 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
400.042 |
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426.138 |
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財政部跟內政部對不對那這三個部會都會共同來面對那您個人的見解呢不過我覺得就是比如說連院長他提出很多的想法啦但是前陣子我也看到有其他不同的各自提出他專業的解決就是這個我們社會多元很重要的一個大家遇到這個問題以後大家各自提出自己解決方法像上次我也聽到以前的楊所長他提到這個商保不會健保也是一個做法我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
446.304 |
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過去彭教授的時候是很勇於提出各項解決方案的所以是我覺得這部分因為這是國家的問題那如果大家對這個比如說以鼓勵這樣的方式沒有共識我們但是面臨的問題還存在大家要想辦法來解決我想我們金管會如果說有什麼好方法我也會樂意提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
446.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
464.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那在這裡呢可能在未來如果有機會諮詢財政部內政部跟金管會的時候我要說明一點往上跳一頁其實啊其實我們談到所得跟資產作為健保費來客取的一個標的的時候要思考所得是為身所需那麼論能來收費 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.226 |
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485.395 |
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以我們來講不管是資本利得或薪資所得資本利得現在已經成為很多人被動收入成為他維持生活收入的來源所以如果對你維持生活的收入來源予以來客取這個就不能完全反映你的支付能力可是相對的以資產的價值也會有一點差異譬如說在鄉下 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
492.302 |
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508.354 |
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他先生走了之後他繼承了農舍 繼承了農地看起來資產價格很高甚至被排除在社會救助法之外不能列為中低收入的資格但是他根本沒有其他的收入那這個時候我還針對他的資產要來跟他收取保費的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.114 |
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534.342 |
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恐怕會影響他的生活你同意這樣的一個考慮嗎我想說一刀切的做法一定要考慮到各種不同的狀況比如資產有些人資產是等於說他很餘裕的資產有些人那個資產的品質不一樣那當然就是我們如果說要朝這個方向要更要衡量這個資產本身是不是能夠反映你的支付能力所以你對於如果未來以資產價值來計算補充保費這個方向你覺得可以研議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
535.542 |
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562.081 |
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我覺得任何方法都可以研議這也是一個方法之一那也要注意到說只有持有高價的房產自用無法創造收入以至於生活間困擇這種人就要排除在外我想這是個提醒我擔心說未來跟你們討論的時候我們沒有幫助他把釐清所謂的論量能收費這個能不管是你的收入能力還是你的資產能力要反映到你的支付能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
562.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.706 |
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這三者之間是有差別的那最後一個題目來 最後一個請教你來 我們現在永續金融的評鑑報告出來了說我們的透明度有提升但是是所有的業別資訊透明度都是最低的你怎麼看待這樣的一個公司治理的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
578.866 |
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602.047 |
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我想資訊揭露絕對沒有止境因為大家對這個東西透明度的要求會越來越高那我們只能說我們覺得可以揭露而不會產生副作用我們盡量讓它透明那你覺得目前所有的大概機構在我們永續金融評驗當中這個分數都特別低全班的同學就跟我一樣英文都是不及格都英文不及格請問英文老師在怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
602.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
623.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
沒有這也是我們剛好凸顯了我們努力的方向評鑑的目的並不是想讓大家都覺得說我都100分重點是我們透過評鑑了解誰做得好誰做不好大家還有什麼努力的方向我想是很重要的好那我這裡面就寫了有哪些單位他覺得沒有按你們的標準他做的可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
623.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
639.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有進步的空間所以您是否支持未來資訊透明的提升的評分權重加重或納入特別扣分制的加重扣分項以保障投資人及消費者的權益我想這個我們會請那個他們的指標研議小組他會定期會把各種狀況納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
641.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
663.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我覺得整個社會大眾很重視資訊的透明度很重視資訊的揭露程度當然我們也了解有些公司治理上它基於公司機密它不能揭露的但是哪些該揭露哪些是屬於公司的機密儘管會一定要做出一個明確的指引好不好是 我們會跟那個交易所這邊針對這一塊每一個案例都是一個很好我們來檢討制度的機會啦謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝 |