| IVOD_ID |
165234 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165234 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T09:22:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T09:33:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe31ae857a8bb692775906ee7c1e9a76e5a4cf7b889f21dc7b77b98ec381cd5a4705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:22:21 - 09:33:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席麻煩請金管會彭主委請彭主委委員長主委早今年議題跟那個普惠金融有關那普惠金融一個過去歷史上有名的案例就是是不是孟加拉這個國民銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.488 |
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把他用小兒的貸款給一些要就業的婦女還有一些小商販所以他還獲得諾貝爾獎可見這個在經濟很弱勢的人的身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.707 |
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其實是如果從這個案例來看是很有效果的因為在那樣子的經濟環境裡面可能是要去取得相當於台幣幣值一兩萬塊錢的貸款都有困擾所以變成有一些想要做一些小生意的他連最起碼的資本都沒有這個事情是從那邊來的那以這個案例來講其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.373 |
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如果類比這樣台灣需要這麼小的這個微型貸款的這個民眾人數應該相對比例是少很多少很多這個我在過去在當老師的時候有對這個做過蠻全面的研究確實像剛剛那個模式會普遍存在在南亞還有非洲還有以前的早期的東歐那其他國家的所謂的微型金融比較不會是這個型態那台灣的微型金融是什麼樣子的型態 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.425 |
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134.225 |
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維新金融主要是我們現在還是有一些比較經濟弱勢還有就是一些比如說它整個在特別還有就是我們不同的像我們現在看到的就是因為我們現在的金融服務大概會集中在假設人口分佈的中段比如說可能15歲到65歲之間的人其實還有兩端中間還有一些不同比較弱勢經濟弱勢的人他通常很難在很多的商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.247 |
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141.849 |
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得到一個完整的比如說像我們現在的保險商品都有一個最低的承保金額的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.438 |
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167.508 |
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那就像剛剛委員也有研究像印度他們在賣洗髮精的時候他們就覺得奇怪這麼大罐賣不出去他就做成小瓶裝因為很多人他根本買不起整瓶在儲存他只能買小瓶所以後來我們推了微型保險現在把它微小化 小額化但是這個概念我們希望能夠透過商品的設計跟費率的這樣一個能夠滲入到這些不同的群體這個是很好的一個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.408 |
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但是問題是在台灣的實用性到底你認為很高嗎其實台灣確實是我們在微型保險的部分我們也看到還有微型金融部分市場不如其他比如說剛才講的大家提到以前有個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.528 |
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207.63 |
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那個諾貝亞經濟學家他提出一個金字塔底層的商機就是說當一個國家的貧富在特別是那個最貧窮那個底層那個底部非常大的時候像這種國家地區就非常適合來推動這個但是我們基本上我們以我們現在台灣的財富平均的結果雖然說我們不是大部分都是很有錢但是我們下面底層的那個 |
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209.332 |
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那個母數是比較小的所以整個規模上比較困難做到但是我覺得這還是不能放棄我剛才也提過像這一塊絕對不會是我們金融機構的主力課程一定要透過政策的導引才有辦法這個之前蘇貞昌院長在當院長的時候他對於我們台灣的國有銀行他的放款借貸都傾向於集中化大型化那鼓勵中小企業的貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.206 |
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264.712 |
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變得很困難所以他把貸款的金額的成績的計算不是用金額計算用件數加以評比進去也是有這樣子的精神在就是說有的時候站在銀行的角色來看他希望借錢給有錢人那希望一次借很大條的錢這樣既保障然後好像一下業績又很高但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.113 |
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282.774 |
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從服務的角度來看這樣的觀念是不對的當然 其實剛剛委員提到就是說今年剛好是我們推動中小企業放款第20年有繼續在增長嗎有跟委員報告一個數字是這樣因為我前幾天才跟銀行局在討論這件事情因為這20週年翻轉了我們整個銀行放款的配比 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.735 |
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310.262 |
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在那個之前我們大概我們整個銀行總放款在那個中小企業大概只佔大概3成5左右那其他就是可能6成5是大企業經過這20年呢剛好這個比例就翻轉過來了就等於說我們整個銀行的放款對整個企業的放款裡面已經跟以前很大不同因為我們在我剛才也跟陳柱委員提到這個東西假設由放任由銀行去做的話他大概還是會朝向那個容易做好做的地方做但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.802 |
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328.141 |
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我們透過政策來導引確實我們看這20年來確實有很明顯的感覺我覺得這個要繼續加強為什麼因為台灣的產業環境跟很多國家不太一樣像我們跟韓國對比韓國是集中在大企業上他們的國家的經濟主導主要都是幾家大的這個財團 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.369 |
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但台灣其實是一個中小企業遍佈我們台灣的觀念是打群架的觀念所以我們這個對我們台灣的產業的環境是很重要的很多企業他的真正需要貸款的反而是這些比較中小的企業已經很有錢的企業他要貸款沒有困難啦不用特別再去加強我舉個例子你如果說台塑要來跟你貸款台積電要來跟你貸款我看銀行應該都很高興就趕快放款給他嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.069 |
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366.367 |
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因為這個很有擔保然後一次業務又可以做得很大但是真正需要讓我們台灣各地的產業能發展的是這個中小企業的這個貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.839 |
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391.666 |
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像這也是為什麼我們會有一些中小企業的支持機構像信保基金這些都是來做這些事因為他要補足銀行所擔心那個風險的那個部位那其實這樣就可以做到這個的補強你提到的就是我想要講的一個重點這其實因為無論是金融的活動或是貸款這裡面都有一個信用這個性質在這裡面作為他主要支撐的骨幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.449 |
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那你那個微型的普惠的他一個很大的困難就是你這個信用的真性 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.564 |
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422.239 |
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沒有那麼容易因為你面對那麼多人突然之間那麼多人都來那你都要徵信那你要花的成本是非常的巨大的那花了這麼巨大的成本又沒有辦法從你的這個交易中間去獲利回來的話那會出現困難度會產生在這個地方你是不是這樣認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
423.54 |
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447.609 |
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這當然是 這很實務也是非常精準的實務的問題因為銀行它本身大部分都是個盈利事業它當然以最小的成本獲得最大的利益但是銀行也是個特許事業它必須擔負著一定程度的社會責任所以剛才講到說如果你沒有做任何的措施它大概還是會走向一個比較容易做好做好賺的地方就會忽略這些很大的客群這也是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.669 |
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458.542 |
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在一個高度階段行業政策要持續的去對這一塊做一些不管是獎勵或是一些的一些措施去希望他做到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.144 |
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478.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
以中國的過去從發生案例P2P的借貸平台後來倒帳都金額非常的巨大那P2P這個後來證實說他很困難的原因在哪裡就是你徵信沒有辦法你在網路上面的這個徵信他對於他來申請的人你無法徵信因為你要講究的是快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
479.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
然後要便捷但是真信不是一件快速跟便捷就可以達到的事情而且其實很關鍵是當時這個P2P平台它不像是我們的那個所謂的間接金融銀行是負擔中間風險承擔所以它中間會有一個保護機制它沒有 它只是一個平台就讓你之間再撮合那彼此你沒辦法做好真信就讓這個客戶暴露在風險下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
502.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
510.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是啦 從這樣的觀念你來看到網路上的虛擬貨幣交易也是一樣的情況如果中間的這一個人他只是仲介說你們去交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
511.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
537.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那事實上沒有真性在這裡面就很容易衍生非常多的弊端這也是我們要納管當然過去在野蠻成長的時候大概是這個方式只要雙方可以接受就好但我覺得納管以後問題是雙方接受他是在什麼樣基礎上接受如果沒有真性的話接受可能就是一個感冒非常大的風險譬如說你這網路的貸款假設是人跟人之間的貸款所以它那個利率就要拉得很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
537.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
563.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為我可能我做實踐的這個交易我可能裡面要倒賬三四件那我只好把利率拉高所以這個機制是如果沒有信在裡面我認為這個機制是有很大的問題對 這是核心這個是確實像委員講的沒有錯就是比如說政府的監管就是一個信用增強非常重要的機制這個就是讓民眾說我不需要這麼多的專業知識我只要看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
564.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
573.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
政府在監管我就可以把這個東西相信這是一個很重要的效率化的過程所以我現在再回過頭來我們台灣的個案之前監管會核准的三家網路銀行現在有獲利了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
574.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
594.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
現在應該應該還沒有因為他們現在才還在一個建制還在這個過程當中他推廣業務的過程中這個徵訊是一個他很大的問題很大的困難這一部分要如何解決他們有他們特殊性就像我們最近開放幾家銀行的事辦因為過去銀行強調5P5P一定要過去你有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
595.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
619.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
對啊你們也要求要認識客戶啊那我是小白我根本就沒有這個怎麼辦他就要想到其他的指標來代表他的風險如果可以做到這一點的話其實這樣可以大幅的減少這個的落差所以我們一直希望其實他們在數位金融就有這個優勢我們一直希望他帶動一個就是說不要用一個傳統的概念來經營因為未來世界變化很大如果可以用一個新的觀念說不定更精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
620.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
639.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對 那但是今天這個主題啊無論是推動普惠金融或是金融科技啊都不要忘了這中間還是要有信用在裡面做骨幹是那如何既便捷又不會去失去它的準則不然的話有可能會造成災難喔是加油謝謝 謝謝委員的那個指導 謝謝 |