| IVOD_ID |
165220 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165220 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第8次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第8次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-11T11:33:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-11T11:49:54+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:16 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2170dced164337aafd710a5f441039b785e1af54c489cd6218bd6bf3e548dbcf53e0a86760a0e7675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:33:38 - 11:49:54 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第8次會議（事由：一、同意權之行使事項：本院交通、教育及文化兩委員會報告審查行政院函送國家通訊傳播委員會委員提名名單，蔣榮先為委員並為主任委員，程明修為委員並為副主任委員，黃葳威及羅慧雯均為委員，請同意案。（11月7日上午報告事項後）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。（11月7日下午及11日）三、11月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長卓院長請備詢 |
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莊委員好院長好我想本席今天的質詢將圍繞在整個產業的轉型到企業人權跟社會正義但是首先想從最近的一個關於價值的問題來請教卓院長就這兩天中國國民黨的黨主席也就是本院的前同事鄭麗文他出席了50年代白色恐怖秋季追思的慰靈大會 |
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那其中追思到了幾位其實一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的一個叫吳石那這個地方我要來請教院長就是說對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜的一個追思我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣那我相信國人同胞他一定會覺得說一邊 |
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113.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
嘴巴講著反共保台一邊跑去追思共諜甚至於我們過去成長的背景裡面常常會看到好多標語保密防諜人人有責講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨就沒有現在的一個台灣結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰我看那個黨主席連一篇文他都懶得發但是寧願去幫共諜這樣做一個追思我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
114.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
138.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個是到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨是台灣的國民黨還是北京的國民黨所以我要請教院長就是說你對於在野黨的領袖去公開的追思共諜這樣的一個追思會身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長你的態度看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
139.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我表示遺憾因為一個中國國民黨的主席當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧無時甚至要求他的涉台人員要學習無時精神的時候竟然不避諱的去參加這個組織所舉行的這個活動會讓我們覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
160.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
182.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟民眾的距離太遙遠了尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動表示他不在乎社會的觀感不在乎歷史的定位也不在乎對岸用這個無實的精神要來加強對台灣統戰的事實跟人民的距離實在太遙遠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
184.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
196.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我認為院長這樣的一個答覆是你個人是太過於厚道我相信我們主席台上我認為我們連主席台上的副院長他一定會很大的一個感慨 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
過去江啟臣副院長他也擔任過中國國民黨的一個黨主席嘛我想你現在在那裡一定有一個感觸就是說不然你過去說馬英九也好啦還是這個韓國瑜也好啊你至少你說在蔣介石的誕辰的時候你也去獻個花去吊雞一下甚至有的甚至跑去夜領起碼會維持一個歷史上的一個一致性但是看看現在的中國國民黨的黨主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我看那個蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提但是那是國民黨的家務事但問題是這轉身去向共諜致敬我看這個連蔣介石地下有知的話他會覺得他現在這些徒子徒孫他一定也不生虛虛但重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對於國人同胞的看法是說這樣的一個政黨反共的旗子還沒有放下你忠誠就先投降這個會導致整個國家的一個錯亂當院長就提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
北京當然大吹大家學習無恥的一個精神對北京來講共諜他從來就不是一個罪名甚至他都認為說共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命但是相對對我們台灣而言對這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制破壞我們民主社會的一個敵人所以本集要在這個地方提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
當中國用經貿宗教媒體甚至文化在滲透台灣的時候啊其實在台灣的每一個角落我們有這樣的一個風險的時候台灣各個政黨的領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識所以啊院長這樣的一個答覆我雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
331.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
早上的答复我再说一次 我说共铁是要消灭国民党消灭中华民国的这是共铁的工作 这跟我们所称的所谓政治犯思想犯是不一样的而且身为国民党主席他应该知道历史也知道现实当大陆 中国正在大陆吹捧无实的时候他已经陷入这种统战的过程当中大陆加强统战的结果就会出现 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以保衛中華民國台灣主權跟安全的工作已經沒有辦法在由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了所以未來政府應該跟國內的所有自由民主的人士更加強對中華民國台灣主權安全的保障我們必須要堅持這個原則謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度我們是不是接下來也請主席邀請我們國發會主委還有經濟部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
經濟部長 國安會主委國安會主委今天請教副主委代理部長我想請教你一件大事 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
401.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們捷安特被美國查過貨品這應該你知道這個是我們台灣第一次企業因為勞權的問題被美方來把貨品給扣住了這個不是企業倒楣我都認為這是國家品牌我們很重大的一個危機美國的海關說捷安特去採到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項這不是小事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
402.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個是一個國際上的警訊事情一發生以後業者他跑去跟我們外交部我相信也有跟你們經濟部還有勞動部來求助甚至於拜訪監察院我在司法法治委員會的在質詢的時候我還特別要求我們的監察院不要我們業者受苦受難的時候從後面再去撲刀這個代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
457.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
業者來求助的時候是他們慌了但重點是說我們政府能幫他們什麼我要請教部長說我們經濟部現在實際上去介入協助了什麼有沒有一個跨部會的機制一起來幫企業釐清事實來改善我們自己國內的一個企業的制度保安委員因為他這一個算是一個個案那事實上美方之前馬上有跟我們有過說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
480.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
知道這件事情但是我們也跟美方有討論過這個東西他們強調是個案我們也嘗試聯繫說據道他們也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方來做說明所以我們也跟美方表達然後也幫他們介紹了律師怎麼樣來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
美方也明顯的告訴我們因為這個是個案是他個案跟美方的邊境管制局的兩照希望我們政府先不要急著介入但是我們有幫他們做後來巨大也跟美國的已經有見面了已經也做了說明了因為他這個只是暫時處分最後結果還沒有判定 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本席認為這件事情非同小可不要小看他你去把他看看這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢你對一間這大企業想就營收65%你一個貨卡在那個地方2到3年光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億這個影響到的不是只有這家公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
550.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
還有他整條供應鏈都會被拖下去喔現在TBA的工會已經在動美利達也準備要去改善那我們是希望說剛剛部長你這樣的回答那當然是有一點很圓融像因應美方美國政府的一個要求可以把事情給解決掉這也是一個方法但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
551.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
568.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
政府你說不動起來看企業自己在那個地方救火本席還是表達很擔心這個只是美國你看你接下來歐盟CSDDD上路人權就是新時代的貿易的一個通行證你現在不只美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
583.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
歐盟現在也動起來了你說去年通過一個新的指令企業永續盡責調查的一個指令就是本期剛提到的CSTDD白話講就是說把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律2027年就要上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是說台灣的企業只要你接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這些大品牌的你通通要遵守這套法規這個不是一個選擇題這個到最後是一個強制的我們自己對這個國際新的規範現在的還有2027年就要去上路的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
629.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們有什麼樣的一個未雨綢繆我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程你像比如說我們從114年開始啊營收超過500億的製造業上市貴公司你開始要做人權的盡責的一個調查你116年起成果要公開在永續的一個報告書上但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
644.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
本市要強調就是說我們不能出事之後那開始在補破案沒有 報告委員我剛才講雖然剛剛講巨案是一個個案沒有錯但是通案的部分我們已經跟勞動部要協商怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
671.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
強迫勞動它的範圍蠻廣的對台灣來講的話很多我們是立即就可以改善的比如說職場的環境等等公安等等的一些情況但是最主要還是移工的問題我們現在遇到的問題我們本國勞工比較沒有問題是移工的問題移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走但是對全世界來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
673.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
691.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他還是覺得說你雇主要全部負責吸收啦那這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論說看怎麼樣去因應還是有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣但是終究要去處理謝謝部長院長我要提的就是說政府應該是當企業的靠山 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
693.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
712.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這些大型企業捷安特巨大的在台灣或者國際上都算非常有名的他企業都已經夠大了那很多產品他還不是他自己做他還是有很多供應鏈那政府我所謂的當企業的靠山就是說那底下那些供應鏈呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
713.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你說巨大你說捷安特你說美利達我達到我自己的這些人權的一個指標了那底下的供應鏈呢我的意思就是說政府尤其是我們經濟部對這些中小企業該輔導的部分我們要為與籌謀要準備好不然新的制度上路以後我相信這個都是我們不是只有企業的危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
737.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
到最後會變成台灣品牌的一個危機請 院長簡單的一個答覆第三方面跟委員答覆第一個 委員剛剛提到人權是國際貿易的一張門票這個我非常認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
748.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
774.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
沒有達到這個人權的要求我們要跟國際進到國際社會都很困難況且要談到競爭這是第一個部分第二個雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件但我願意政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討請經濟部勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動的保障要做全面性的檢討也希望也提出一個指引讓大家可以共同遵守為什麼現在我們第三個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
792.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們現在有推出一個企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期這個就是要生產者跟他的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準所以我們當中有一個企業實施人權禁止的調查這個調查非常重要我們會分公司的大小分層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
793.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
802.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
暗部就班循序漸進的來要求但總結總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話人權的標準要達到國際的標準我們才能夠順利進到國際的市場謝謝院長那我為什麼請國安會主委上來我記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
808.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
832.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
經濟部長 工部長在當國會主委的時候我在院會質詢的時候我就對於我們這個少子化的部分我就一直在追問過了兩次那我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年不夠了 只剩一個月而已也就是說我們這個八年的人口政策接近尾聲其實這個分數不及格 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
833.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
863.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不及格了政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生啊但是呢我們看到了很多狀況你說我在鄉下我看了很多啊學校合併啊社區老化為什麼會這樣小紅起馬他的誰料酒你看像你你看現在全台出生人口預估13萬創新低連台東人口跌破21萬出生是死亡的五分之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
865.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
887.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生他們2015年是地方創生元年我們2019年我們也是地方創生元年日本抓30年我當然現在我們才幾年的時間我們不敢期待看到巨大的一個效果可是我們現在都辦了活動居多了少子化他不是生的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
888.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
912.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
而更是留不住也回不來對鄉下來講就是這樣子那我要請教院長跟國會我們下一期的規劃是這樣的問題我們不要只停留在補貼了你像比如說你現在要人口政策應該進一步應該是引人回流吸引人才來你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
912.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
930.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
也已經核定了 你是三大據點台北 台南跟台東那我要講的就是說你這個執行的重心如果都偏向活動的話你很難達到這個效果了你說你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留台人數跟你整個創業的一個轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
960.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
960.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 謝謝謝謝莊委員 謝謝卓院長 |