| IVOD_ID |
165189 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165189 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第8次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第8次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-07T15:43:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-07T15:54:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f00af500eef7eaf514da8d1794993bca4437c4dc073b7ad873849987ba386f8b6b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:43:28 - 15:54:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第8次會議（事由：一、同意權之行使事項：本院交通、教育及文化兩委員會報告審查行政院函送國家通訊傳播委員會委員提名名單，蔣榮先為委員並為主任委員，程明修為委員並為副主任委員，黃葳威及羅慧雯均為委員，請同意案。（11月7日上午報告事項後）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。（11月7日下午及11日）三、11月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席我請到院長跟經部長麻煩請委員長 經濟部長備詢感謝老委員 貴委員謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
62.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
館長 辛苦了你從2005年恢復人的家鄉整棟已經達標了 跟你恭喜但我常常在說 羅總統應該開一個新局 心事度勢全世界坦白說 真要競爭這個競爭包括大塑骨 包括AI 坦白說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
89.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
沒有電就沒有競爭力了尤其這個電的部分過去因為為了要達到離空離歐年的恢復能力加強所以很匆忙的中間來推動這個力量他們說問題是很多但是這第一我是很清楚的概念這跟熱情的倒影台的體制是沒有關係的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
91.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
103.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那是有更加高級不凡的議員、分析人員要強烈對折那麼在這個中台的政策,因為如果沒有做一個調整對於我國的競爭力是非常嚴重的挑戰我要請問保長,因為這是你的任務你知不知道全世界太陽能 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
117.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
141.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
發展的成本 一個空隙大概如何?我們說價錢就好價錢是越來越多啦越來越多啦因為他的成本是逐年在下降台灣沒剩啦 想蓋整個做一個國家你知不知道?做太陽能的部份?我不知道來 我要請教你 你知不知道日本的太陽能能發展多久?對 它比較貴啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
144.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
161.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對啦 日本是最貴的嘛全世界 除了台灣以外是最貴的一坨貴的你知不知道新台幣2.7元每個人美國的太陽能一坨新台幣1.8元每個人Australia太陽能新台幣一坨1.4元 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
175.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
196.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
白色太陽營一座一戶至一戶半帝國恢恢靈的家鄉太陽營一座一戶百中東中東日頭較嚴太陽營發展的成本一座四甲半至九甲也是我們的競爭對手印度 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
204.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
226.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
太陽能喔 一套高格新代表因為我不知道怎麼說 就是說當機是要去推動太陽能這一兩條的三頁不可能不變故 世界的行政嘛後來 我剛才已經有跟你講過過去的發展 因為我們蓋 我很高興聽到福利福生這兩項 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
235.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
252.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有機會重啓這就讓我們有兩個負能電廠的時候我們就可以慢慢、好好、更強勇來擴大太陽能的發電跟熱能的發電所以變成老總統跟党議長就變成有這個機會創造歷史的關頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
257.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
285.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
過去 我們對今天 設作一個分析而已過去的太陽能是受到創造政府所推動的一坨五坨 五坨全世界所有的太陽能平均一坨新台幣的一坨半我們五坨 過去啊但是過去那些高雄高鐵 還有碧端 火航的郵輪要查啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
287.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
296.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我現在是這樣 我經過我跟台電所談過 跟統計所有國營事業所來討論可是 沒錯 如果可以在你的臨來推動台灣歷齡的專行你跟老總統可以推動這個專行重新開啟一片歷齡 太陽齡的新疆那麼讓他們做記載 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
316.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
334.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
逆應 交給台電 跟相關的公營事業出來的土地 我給你算過了這幾萬公頃裡面 若是交給台電去運作包括兩條高速公路 跟東西方的快速道路啦這所有的 若能好好使用不用跟水庫 水庫面積不大啦 發了不少電啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
345.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
368.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
要出一個替代方案是很簡單的你不要大家對著台南人對著這個五三頭飲水我們的陰泳水灌溉泳水大家貼心吊膽實在是沒必要 柏中你覺得怎麼樣這個您剛才提到高速公路這個部分我們都有跟相關公路有沒關係我不是在跟你說這個嘛我現在在說這飲水大...來來來 我請問議長議長我們今天談到大風洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
374.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
386.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果可以在這裡做一個重新開始 我在這裡回頭看保證啦你跟老總統 跟金伯中 你如果願意這樣輸給我我給你保證台灣的太陽能 一度可以在3個月以後 我不要跟你說2個月以後你講是2個月以後啦 好 我跟你講3個月以後 全世界會想整個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
400.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
421.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們從3個來進步到2個半 你覺得你如果這樣做我們所有的競爭力可以提升 北省省外同輩碰撞的壓力就可以降低了 議長你如何看待好 報告委員政府是嚴肅的 不然我就分割過去剉政府的政策 現在我們也在做不不不 我跟你說的 我的意思嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
422.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
437.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我告訴你過去的經濟存在這些東西潛入20年不可能廢掉嘛我第二要說的就是說太陽林 台灣因為土地管理 土地困難再來我們初期發開發的成本當然更高你看世界各國初期到現在絕對不一樣第三 我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
441.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
449.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在我已經決定 檢討這些正義帝國 民間帝國沒有啦 要說正義嘛 我們現在要講解身份 看這正義是多少嘛就檢討 檢討這些正義帝國 民間帝國我剛才在跟你說 交給專業的 來電的去經營 大規模 去經 我跟你說啦可以講到三個月以後啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
465.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
471.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你說過去打開市價比我講全世界我所知道的國家打開市價也沒有一度超過兩塊八的啊這開發的 你寒了再進行 你說他想過兩塊八還要這樣兩塊開市呢他早開發才成分比較多啊我們不是要陪你消遣這些嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
484.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
510.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我贊成委員的說法啦 讓專業去處理包括給人家燃燒 有沒有要重新啓用 給專業來評斷所以我的意思是說 針對太陽燈要有一個新的時刻就是說我們所有 坦白說 以前你金嘛金要促成 所以單價提高工收費 我就說那已經過去了但是那你不可能把它廢除 那有合約的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
511.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
537.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
未來可以重新 你就是說用一個現在太陽燈一切身份都講解了連老九五台電的專機去處理太陽燈的發電我只能夠三年跟你保證台灣的太陽燈發電可以降到來三個月全世界現在平均是一顆四個月所以我不知道你會不會對這個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
539.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
562.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
共同大力來推動這對你們還是一個好的歷史可以留名對台灣的競爭力是可以極度提升的呢可以要求台電降低它所有發電的成本不管是天天天天氣的 煤的 火的都可以降低它的成本 當然是好的事情你把台銅台鹽的土地交給台電去開困本身給你保證兩塊半以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
570.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
580.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我幫你補正 你可以請補正這剛好全部都是在你的任務過程裡面你研議一下 這樣啦 給你一個月時間研議後分析一個粗暴的答案 這樣可以嗎 有辦法嗎研究多一個重點 你說土地喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
592.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
614.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
研究太陽林講到的三項議案就是有專精的單位不要再給民間大家什麼栗油油 菜油油 什麼油油沒意義啦就對沒油油 沒什麼油油我可以在經濟部台前一句話裡面像綠營 尤其是太陽林未來成本的分析如果像台灣新的太陽林 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
615.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
616.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
637.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
646.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
谢谢谢龙介委员质询谢谢卓院长经济部长备询谢委员所取的资料麻烦送到谢委员办公室谢谢谢谢谢龙介委员谢谢 |
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謝委員龍介：（15時43分）主席，我請卓院長跟龔部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩請卓院長、經濟部長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
謝委員龍介：感謝賴委員跟郭委員。 |
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卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。 |
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謝委員龍介：院長辛苦了！ |
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卓院長榮泰：不會！ |
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謝委員龍介：2025年非核家園貴黨已經達標了，恭喜你！我常常在說賴總統應該可以開一個新局、審時度勢，坦白說，全世界很競爭，這個競爭包括大數據、包括AI，因此沒有電就沒有競爭力。尤其電的部分，過去為了達到2025年非核家園，所以這中間很匆忙的推動綠能，坦白說問題實在很多，但是第一，我是很清楚界定，這跟賴清德、卓榮泰的體制是沒關係，但是如果有官商勾結不法的，本席仍然認為要強力追查。 |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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謝委員龍介：在這個重大的政策，如果沒有做一個調整，對我國的競爭力是非常嚴重的挑戰，我要請問部長，因為這是你的業務，你知道全世界太陽能發電的成本趨勢大概是如何？我們說價錢就好。 |
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龔部長明鑫：價錢是愈來愈低。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
謝委員龍介：愈來愈低。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
龔部長明鑫：對，因為它的成本是逐年在下降。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
謝委員龍介：若臺灣不算，最貴的是哪一個國家你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
龔部長明鑫：你說太陽能的部分？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
謝委員龍介：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
龔部長明鑫：我不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
謝委員龍介：我請教你，你知道日本的太陽能發電一度是多少錢嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
龔部長明鑫：是比較貴，它比較貴。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
謝委員龍介：對啦！日本是最貴的，全世界除了臺灣以外，它是最貴的，一度多少錢你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
龔部長明鑫：我可能要查一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
謝委員龍介：新臺幣2.7元，美國的太陽能一度新臺幣1.8元，澳洲的太陽能一度新臺幣1元至1.5元，巴西的太陽能一度1元至1.5元，德國是非核家園，太陽能一度1.8元，中東的太陽比較強烈，太陽能發電的成本一度0.45元至0.9元，也是我們的競爭對手印度，太陽能一度新臺幣0.9元。院長，我不知道這些數據……當時要去推動太陽能這二、三兆的產業，不可能沒評估世界的行情嘛！我剛才已經有跟你說過，過去的發電，因為我們急，我很高興聽到核二、核三這兩廠有機會重啟，這就恢復到我們有兩個核電廠的時候，我們就可以慢慢地、好好地，也比較從容地來看待太陽能發展跟綠能發展，所以變成賴總統跟卓院長你們就有這個機會去創造歷史的高度。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
我們從今天把它切為一個分水嶺，過去的太陽能是屬於蔡政府所推動的，一度5元，全世界所有的太陽能平均一度新臺幣1.5元，我們是5元，但是過去的那些官商勾結、搞弊端、護航的仍然要查。我現在是這樣，經過我跟台電所談過的，以及統計所有國營事業手裡的這些土地，假如院長可以在你的任內推動臺灣綠能的轉型，你跟賴總統可以來推動這個轉型，重新開啟一片綠能、太陽能的新章，然後以核能做基礎，綠能交給台電跟相關國營事業手裡的土地，我幫你算過了，十幾萬公頃土地如果交給台電去運作，包括兩條高速公路跟東西向快速道路，這些所有的如果可以好好善用，也不用用到水庫，說實在的，水庫面積沒有很大，發不了多少電，要出一個替代方案是很簡單，你搞到臺南人對著烏山頭的飲用水、灌溉用水，大家都提心吊膽，實在是沒必要。部長，你覺得怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
龔部長明鑫：您剛才提到高速公路，這個部分我們都有跟相關部會談過…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒關係，我不是在跟你說這個，我現在是在說用水…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
龔部長明鑫：你剛才說好像替代很…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
謝委員龍介：我請問院長，我們今天探討大方向，如果可以在這裡做一個重新開始，我在這裡跟你拍胸脯保證，你跟賴總統與龔部長如果願意這樣來思考，我跟你保證臺灣的太陽能1度可以在3塊以下，我不跟你說2.5塊，合理是2.5塊以下，跟你說是3塊，而且還是全世界最貴的，我們從3塊進步到2.5塊。你知不知道你如果這樣做，我們所有的競爭力可以提升，百姓的生活、通貨膨脹的壓力就可以降低？院長，你如何看待？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，政府是延續的，沒辦法分割，過去蔡政府的政策現在我們也在做。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒有、沒有，你誤會我的意思，我跟你說，過去的政策是存在的，這些東西簽約20年不可能廢掉。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是，我第二個要說的是，太陽能因為臺灣土地取得困難的關係，還有我們初期開發的成本當然會比較高，你看世界各國，初期跟現在絕對不一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒有、沒有，我跟你說…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
卓院長榮泰：第三，現在我已經決定減少這些爭議地區、敏感地區、水庫…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒有啦！不用說爭議的部分，我們現在要降低成本，有爭議的是少數嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，就減少啊，減少這些爭議地區、敏感地區。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
謝委員龍介：我剛才跟你說就是交給專業的、台電去大規模經營，我跟你說，可以降到3塊以下，你說過去是因為剛開始比較貴，我跟你說，全世界我剛剛唸的這些國家，剛開始也沒有1度超過2.8塊的。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果開發的時間比較早，那個時候跟現在的成本不能相比啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
謝委員龍介：它最貴是2.8塊，我們是從5塊開始耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
卓院長榮泰：早開發的成本比較低。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
謝委員龍介：我們不是要跟你爭執這個嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對啦、對啦！我贊成委員的說法，我們就讓專業去處理，包括核能電廠有沒有要重新啟用，讓專業來評斷。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
謝委員龍介：OK，所以我的意思是，針對太陽能要有一個新的視角，坦白說，過去因為你們急著要促成，所以提高單價跟人家收買，我說了那已經都過去了，但是你也不可能把它廢除，那是有合約的。但未來可以重新，你現在就是用太陽能，所有的成本都降低了，然後交給台電專責去處理太陽能發電，我謝龍介三個字跟你保證，臺灣的太陽能發電可以降到3塊以下，全世界現在平均是一點四多塊。你可以對這個政策共同來推動，這對你們也是好的，歷史可以留名，對臺灣的競爭力是可以極度提升的。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
卓院長榮泰：可以要求台電降低所有發電的成本，不管是天然氣、煤、核能都可以降低它的成本，當然是好的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
謝委員龍介：你有要替它解套啦！院長，你把台糖、台鹽的土地交給台電去開墾，本席跟你保證，2.5塊以下，我跟你保證。你可以請部長協助，這剛好全部都是在你的業管範圍內。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這是一個想法，土地…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
龔部長明鑫：價格…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
謝委員龍介：你去研議一下，院長，給你一個月的時間，研議完給本席一個初步的答案，這樣可以嗎？有辦法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
卓院長榮泰：研究哪一個重點？你是說土地嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
謝委員龍介：研究太陽能降到3塊以下，就是由專責的單位負責，不要再給民間，什麼綠友友、蔡友友、什麼友友，沒意義啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
卓院長榮泰：絕對不會是友友，沒有什麼友友。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我可以請經濟部、台電一個月內將綠能，尤其是太陽能未來的成本分析跟委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
謝委員龍介：如何將臺灣新的太陽能發電降到3塊以下？如果能做到這樣，到時候本席可以給賴總統跟卓院長一個大大的肯定，做得到，不是做不到，我跟你保證做得到，如果做不到，你來問我，我會跟你說怎麼做，你看怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我先來問你再做。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
謝委員龍介：好，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：謝謝謝龍介委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、經濟部長備詢。謝委員所索取的資料麻煩送到謝委員辦公室，謝謝謝龍介委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][1] |
接下來請廖先翔委員質詢，黃建賓委員請準備。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
84 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-4-8 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
江啟臣 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
39 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-11-07 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1149101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1149101_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1149101_00004 |