| IVOD_ID |
164980 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164980 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-04T11:18:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-04T11:34:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/92d7873cb56ba25fe9b1a32ef4e22ffe278cc3fca10ad78dc897fd6b01c6011fb9486bad3d5cf06a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:18:11 - 11:34:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案等5案。（10月31日）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。三、10月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、11月4日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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好 謝謝主席我們請卓院長 劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好 部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透 殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
51.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
65.685 |
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我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
71.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
95.549 |
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這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
97.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
125.421 |
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可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
126.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
141.627 |
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那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
170.081 |
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一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
171.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
199.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個他現在人還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿那移民署呢收容天數也屆滿了現在呢也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後呢他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
200.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
229.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以我請教一下院長中國的侵擾形態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
231.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
249.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
251.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
276.042 |
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他盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論那如果按照院長所講的那現在要怎麼去加以處罰去規定現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來加以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
277.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
297.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
301.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
324.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他應該定期我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個然後所以我們希望能夠從這修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均這個等待遣返時間大概多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
325.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
347.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不一定 因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了好啊 那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
349.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
371.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
沒有要主動對外啦 大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去他說我們反正就跟你拖那對待時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬照嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
372.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
389.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
當然不可以 但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來 說簡單一點這個收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
398.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
419.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這段期間等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
421.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
443.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的這個收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
445.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
461.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
462.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
491 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
493.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
506.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得 希望可以提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
507.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
523.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
524.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
547.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕位在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面是不是那我請下一家院長或是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
548.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
555.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照 戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎 會多這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
556.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
583.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
610.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
目前中選會是這麼設計我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是 讓揭露他有申報 誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那問一下 拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了 他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍 領有中國的護照是當選無效呢 還是負刑事責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
610.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
631.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊 所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對 我知道 所以我特別要問拒絕之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
632.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
658.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
659.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
687.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選啊是不是現在有規定是他可以參選嘛對不對如果我們知道他是有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選那所以呢就是我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是呢他是可以登記參選的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
689.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
717.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
718.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
727.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
728.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
752.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
753.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
780.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延了而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
782.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
805.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
807.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
835.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
其實應該往這個方式走我認為去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
836.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
859.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
860.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
885.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
886.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
913.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走好最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
915.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
938.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
960.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
971.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 謝謝好 謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長 |