| IVOD_ID |
164973 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164973 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-04T09:16:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-04T09:32:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/92d7873cb56ba25f6713f8ee9c5bc342278cc3fca10ad78de205b2f10ac9af7248780db23e8b7b075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
盧縣一 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:16:26 - 09:32:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案等5案。（10月31日）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。三、10月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、11月4日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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主席有請院長跟原住民委員會主委請委員長備詢原民會主委陸委員好 委員長好 主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去 |
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帶衛環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案它在我們業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間那衍生了很多問題那因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的 |
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核酸分子說不是他的我們請國產署來講 國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題可以嗎可以今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.44 |
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我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助 |
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結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋始部落統一了不過尋始部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石 不要蒼蠅 |
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已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長 潘孟安縣長到現在的鄒村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年的問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告 |
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152.596 |
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這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟相關所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是 |
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到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家 |
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就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對這個河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實他一望無際你根本就看不到邊境的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的 |
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所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意 |
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264.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清 釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的資商同意權是不是要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
308.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意嘛結果是一而再再而三的諮商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
308.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會很緊急你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
385.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量我們是盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
387.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
414.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的一個會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
444.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形原民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會 我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
445.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
462.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
OK 我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村 丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
463.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以部落自覺它的行政部門不管它的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民主諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
500.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法要把它拉到法律的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
501.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委這個瑟布利溪事件發生在關旭年間就是這個豐港溪他曾經造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
540.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
原汉冲突造成素人死亡当时的清朝有处理可是现在已经过了133年还是呈现这样的一个问题也就是这是一个原汉冲突的一个地域地带所以应该要 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
很明确要快速的或者说去把60年悬崖未决的问题把它提升上来法律上面来解决返山溪也是这样丰港溪也是这样为什么会这样呢因为它地处屏东县政府的距离非常遥远你要去稽查它不容易它释放肥料的时间都是三更半夜你根本就没有人力去稽查才会造成这样的一个结果造成在地的居民苦不堪言 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
570.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
593.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望把這個事件趕快給他落幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼 好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
662.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
663.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
691.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了中高級的這個起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來來教我們的主語 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
711.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的 四千塊我是覺得不能每一個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
712.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
742.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
764.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師我們現在重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得高級 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
785.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
787.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
807.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺是選在那邊4000所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學4人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
809.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師去年台東大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
831.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
844.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
園民會做園民會的 教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人 我人在相公所上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
846.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
868.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我很清楚公所主委的以推人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
868.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
892.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
894.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
915.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
應該就是最好的就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
918.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
939.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程我會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝卓妍 |