| IVOD_ID |
16486 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16486 |
| 日期 |
2025-02-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2025021755 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-02-18T13:30:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-02-18T15:55:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:24:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0c61213ed9d676a3c5a50e189e005e8efc566dc5288ab23bcbdd79188fe9b87aa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-02-18T14:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團協商（事由：研商114年度中央政府總預算後續相關處理事宜。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:30:18 - 15:55:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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像所有在座的報告一下那個柯建民總召來電他可能會晚10分鐘到所以我們開會就定在2點10分跟大家報告一下剩下其他黨團幹部請通知一下各自黨團的幹部在2點10分以前那麼麻煩一下到達會議現場 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2376.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2397.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝各位黨團的代表都已經到 謝謝大家麻煩我們把會場稍微謝謝 謝謝各位黨編今天特別感謝大家今天一起來蒞臨參與我們朝野協商特別跟大家報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2401.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2420.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
黃國昌總召,我還是叫你總召好了,因為叫主席我還太便宜了,叫不出來,這樣比較順。總召,各位黨團幹部都到了現場。我們今天協商主題是114年度中央政府總預算後續相關處理事宜。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2421.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2445.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那第二個重要的宣告就是中央政策總預算上會期我們已經多次院會的表決完成了三讀通過上週賴清德總統召集了五院國事會商那麼各院也都對於預算表達了相關寶貴的意見那民進黨團也發函志願本部要求院長這邊立刻來召集朝野協商聽取意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2446.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2461.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
化解各方面的紛爭或者歧見等等所以我們今天也順利的也應這個要求來召開那第三的宣告就是今天我們協商主題針對總預算後續的執行事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2462.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2478.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們不會去變動原來已經三讀通過的各項決議所以我們先聽行政部門有什麼看法再由各黨團來決定我們各種可能的相關因應措施我們首先非常感謝今天列席的行政院的祕書長龔祕書長 歡迎您財政部的莊部長 歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2483.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2502.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席總書的陳總主席長歡迎您那我們先請行政院拱祕書長請您代表行政部門先說明好嗎好請柯總召陳旭文請發言今天這個草野協商有兩個主題吧第一個主題當然是2月11號韓院長參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2506.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2528.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
帶總統的五月運氣協調韓院長出來面對記者會講說你要來召集朝夕協商有關於如何追加預算這是一個題目這題目應該是韓院長你先回答質疑有關於董運算相關事宜那個問題當然是我們再討論第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2531.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2555.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那相關事宜的時候會由我們黨團主動來提出會協商到最後表決代表就是黨團成員也用所謂就是說行政部門進來協商的進來表決所以等於我們講完大家講完有疑義再問行政部門這個才是一般的正常的軌道 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2559.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2566.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是第一點所以第一點我們先聽韓院長你說沒有辦法對抗疫情我看有什麼樣的狀況好第三點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2573.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2592.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
今天我們很遺憾看到國民黨黨鞭夫婦既然不見了沒有關係那現在陳一貞和張志文不知道什麼身分能夠進來草野協商我們過去草野協商只有山長來中央嘉賓來的時候就坐在那裡也不能講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2598.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2624.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那是實質問題,誠信心問題就三長嘛韓院長,那個黨也要飛啦,應該告夾這個挺多然後既然有陳一正委員和張志文委員在這裡做,也無妨他們做,只要接就接嘛但是發言者還是三長,就是如此請韓院長我們照一般的遊戲規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2626.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2642.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
避免我們今天再三吵架也沒有用啦周民主黨有什麼意見就直接講周民主黨院長我看周民主黨這樣一切事宜到有什麼意見就直接講我們所有話都要公開透明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2644.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2663.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
今天因為副坤崎總召特別有請假,他不在國內,他出國所以王宏輝書記長特別也來問,說帶兩位副書記長來,反正都是跟預算專,一個柴油會召委陳玉珍那是一個事情,我們先談陳希希的問題再講,然後要談預算內容,我所有人都要找來,陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2669.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2675.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們所有的立委都要把他找來,每一個委員都要跟醫生有關所以今天我們很簡單的談,就隨心事問題而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2678.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2698.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那到底決定今天開完以後,兩個復議案的時間如何定兩個復議案只要各兩天的話,那可能時間點落點,之後講完以後,院長來備詢的時候,各黨政黨比例去問這很清楚,今天不是在這裡論說,因為東東西西的,當然是有程序一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2700.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2704.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
對,好,謝謝柯總統,那我請王洪威他的程序發言,請 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2730.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2746.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
韓院長能夠再安排一次的這個草野協商那本來呢在按照法定程序來說因為呢我們現在的總預算已經三讀通過那照理說就是我們就是在立法院的草野協商針對總預算應該在三讀之前我們來做協商但是呢大家也知道那麼在有關於總預算的協商有兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2756.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2761.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為我們都是在這邊一直不停的在聆聽我們的柯總召的魔音傳腦一次發言都講超過30分鐘所以後來在整個的草野協商有關總預算協商根本無法進行非常遺憾所以在總預算已經完成刪讀通過之後那麼在座協商那剛才其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2784.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2790.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
包含這個院長也好或者做外來秘書長也好那麼其實也非常清楚知道是希望能夠對後續的總預算的情形我們來做協商而且這次的協商那麼事實上是由行政院我剛講卓院長也特別希望韓院長能安排這一次的協商那所以我想就說韓院長釋出了極大的善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2811.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2823.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那麼事實上我們各黨團大家也釋出極大的善意那覺得我們可以來做這個再來做一次協商而且呢今天也有我們行政院今天是秘書長來嘛那我想可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2825.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2830.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
基本上那卓院長如果今天若只是單純啊若只是單純我們自己黨團之間的協商譬如說剛才那個柯總統說哎不要談這個復議的時間啊那個是哪一天啊然後那個復議的過程要不要請院長過來要不要有質詢質詢的時間是怎麼安排那這根本不需要卓院長越主帶跑嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2850.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2856.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對不對那這樣不是亂套了嗎難道卓院長是拜託韓院長來開一個協商然後我們來討論一下立法院裡面什麼時候來這個處理這個復議案然後這個復議案呢到底要不要請院長來報告然後到底這個派的代表執行的人的人數多少我想絕對不是嘛那這樣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2876.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2878.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那行政院並沒有這樣的一個權力來主導我們立法院自己本身的議事日程的排定所以我覺得我剛才實在有點聽不懂柯總召的意思那另外就是有關於我們這次協商事上絕對是事出突然 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2896.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2899.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
包含副總召還有我們首席副書記長事實上他們之前都已經安排好了行程所以今天我過來我也請了包含我們兩位副書記長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2912.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2933.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那陳玉珍委員她就是財委會的召委那張志倫委員大家也知道她是會計師所以呢就是一起來參加這個協商那過去我必須講過去民進黨團也經常比如包含李昆城啊或者是鍾嘉斌啊或者有一些其他我記得還有沈伯陽什麼都 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2934.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2942.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
都有參加過這個草野協商而且呢事實上院長也非常好意他們要發言的時候院長也給他們機會發言而且這還在立當時民進黨黨團三長全部都在的狀況喔我記得其實我提出過很多抗議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2952.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2956.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我記得我提出過很多話我一直說三長在這邊是不是應該以三長來發言那當然如果有其他的委員或者副書記長要來參加你要聆聽這沒有什麼問題嘛那只是你在外面看直播或者是在這邊直接坐在這邊聽生理情境那我們也沒有什麼意見所以過去其實院長都給民進黨團非常大的一個發言空間非民進黨團的三長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2980.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2996.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
事實上都有在發言那我今天要特別講的是因為今天呢是本來我們應該三長貨來但是因為兩位真的都有他事先已經安排好的事情所以我覺得如果今天柯總召要這樣強人所難那我覺得呢這樣是雙標啦不能說今天民進黨團非三長 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3004.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
3023.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
來發言的時候呢然後韓院長就讓他暢所欲言然後在這個國民黨團我們三黨中有兩黨他沒有不可出席的狀況之下變成說不能其他人絕對完全不能發言我覺得這也是不敬人情啊因為無論如何我想今天其實呢因為這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
3025.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3032.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
韓院長釋出的最大的一個善意所以我都希望說我們今天在這個善意的平台上大家把就是覺得有些什麼包含習近平覺得有至愛難行的地方老實說我本來覺得習近平在這個時候還要講什麼但是呢我都可以敞開心胸我可以非常的善意就是如果習近平覺得有什麼至愛難行的地方他提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3049.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3052.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我們可以協助 我們當然就是為予以協助我們本來就不是 大家不需要互相為難嘛如果一開始就要這樣劍拔弩張我覺得這就破壞了這一場朝野協商的意義那我特別講 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3065.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3082.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
包含媒體說本來藍白都不願意出席什麼之類可是今天我們都願意視大體顧大局但是我覺得這樣的一個氣氛這樣的一個平台不要因為某些個人的因素反而破壞了這樣一個善意的平台以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3084.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3105.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第一個,今天並沒有所謂的劍拔弩張破壞的情緒我們今天很冷靜的,我也知道王宏威在講話,我也都注意去聽他不搞錯題,沒辦法所有混在一起,我今天非常冷靜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3106.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3131.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第一個我要再講清楚齁今天是你去參加總統有要去協調你出來對記者會講說你找藍綠來談一談有沒有辦法辦追加預算所以第一個我想只要想聽那還有哪一種有什麼好方法可以解決這個只要可以的話那當然我熱點起身只要不可以的話那這個題目就結束了這樣很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3134.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3158.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第二個就是說當然就是總預算因為我們這個談之最主要就是說我們上次也談過嘛這個有關於互裕案的時候不管財化法或總預算的互裕案是要讓行政院長來而且一次安排兩天那時候第一次我坐在這裡副主席坐在對面我說我是民主配合黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3159.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3177.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為只要符合憲法原則,只要符合程序性當然我非常樂意見到這樣的安排結果因為你們在選辦法的時候,不讓卓議長來所以我樂見這個程序能夠好好進行,其他我都沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3178.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3198.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
細節就不談了,反正排下去一黨幾個人就弄出來,那明天就可以開始這是我們今天要談的問題那我們今天並不是要談所謂的總預算內容假設總預算內容協商的時候,那早就過去了總預算內容協商已經表決過還在討論,已經表決過還在這裏談總預算協商陳一生代表財政委員召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3202.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3227.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們這邊也有財政委員召委我們財政委員有委員還有會計師可以來我從來沒有看過會計師可以來所以我代表財政委員那黃國昌也說那我代表律師我代表什麼我代表牙醫師因為我虎口白牙 拔河沒有牙齒這也是一種題目所以根本大家不要在鬼扯啦說實在有的比較快啦黃國昌我知道你今天也不用來笑容但是我有 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3229.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3235.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不是,那個...完全沒理真,我忘記講話了啦,我們晚間好了,好今天很簡單嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3240.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3265.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這兩個會議案就是看起來是明天一個兩天一個兩天嘛那可能時間的話那可能三四五六四休禮拜三禮拜四嘛會議案嘛禮拜五禮拜五下禮拜一會議案處理嘛這大概就結束了總計算已經表決過了在這裡可以協商嗎我不知道有沒有程序所以讓我們講話要說買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3270.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3294.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們今天很簡單,大家不要吵架我們昨天有通過電話,我們都有默契能夠五分鐘講完就講完,講不完大家也不要吵那是一個原則嘛,可以的可以,不行的不行,一句而已啊比如說,有關於你要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3295.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3311.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
做最佳預算的處理,我看黃國昌也發言文,發言文是有道理的總預算已經表格了,當然已經要經過賦予,賦予以後再往下走,走才有所謂最佳預算的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3312.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3327.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這件事算要朝野同意嘛,這些原則大家都很清楚我想黃國昌會發一個文,那個文是正確的啊是黨內黨幫韓國瑜結尾的所以我們今天沒有問題很清楚道理就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3328.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3355.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那今天明天在這裡,在桃園公他在講說,若是有抄外相,我再講話兩天因為兩天,那時候我們董事長抄外相兩天要講四千兩百個案子,言目求疑今天那個都過去了,沒得再收集了我也不想跟你們吵這些我今天只要把程序性問題,大家心靈氣而講之可以就可以,不可以我們就往下走了嘛,是不是這樣?請安寰海長,你要定奪喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3358.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3383.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
柯總召我昨天來電話我就拜託他今天的發言一定要精確、簡短、有力稍微長了一點我想我接下來還是請行政官員還是趕快說明一下我們請拱祕書長來說明行政院議長任院長行政院議長要來說明什麼他總計算已經給你表決完畢他要說明他未來將來他如果要辦追加檢各方面他今天一定要聽你的話因為你有良方嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3389.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3412 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
今天行政院沒有資格來要求立法院怎麼弄是立法院怎麼做 你能夠接受就接受 不能做就沒有辦法所以立法前 立法前 預算前 實在立法院今天怎麼 他們是分別預算和人事的他們有資格來干涉我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3413.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3423.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們總議院選總協會都審所以這次審議婚禮延遲所以你怎麼決定他們怎麼解鎖做不到也沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3426.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3445.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
謝謝你的提醒但是我想還是先請行政部門說明因為未來卓德中太院長也很誠懇的來溝通萬一行政院將來一走了復議二不走復議要辦追加檢解凍等等希望行政院有一個時間能夠跟各黨團來溝通所以今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3446.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3473.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
剛剛王國威講的我出於善意我相信各黨團也都有這樣的一個讓行政院能說明一下也為了未來如果要辦追加檢會有解凍的時候我們鋪墊一些強而有力的他們的說服點我想今天讓各黨團聽一下市長的報告你還把球丟回去你不能接你要負責你叫他幫你講什麼話他可以要求你怎麼做嗎這是你你不要再推他只能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3474.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3483.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
第二點如果我今天要推卸責任我今天不必要請大家來召開嘛就是請大家來召開就是希望能夠面對問題未來立法院行政院還是要互相能夠走下去嘛所以我今天不是推卸責任好不好請你不要誤會 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3505.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3509.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我今天講你推的責任也許用詞比較重一點但是也非常實際 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3517.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3542.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
今天是你叫大家來總預算、未來最大預算你要處理這個當然我們要聽你講話你的良方是什麼這個比較重要行政院也是要聽你講嘛所以今天所有人都沒什麼意見韓議長你有辦法找出一個合法的線我們覺得鼓勵拍手 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3544.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3549.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那假如你提的方法我們就有問題那其實就恕難從命嘛就結束了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3554.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3573.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
好 謝謝我想請尊重一下主席的裁定我們先請行政部門來做出一個報告報告完畢之後我們請各黨團來踴躍發言我們再詢思未來完成三讀之後未來後續有些相關事情我們怎麼樣來符合依法依規來處理我想我們先請拱秘書長請報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3577.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3586.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
行政院要怎麼來報啊我們總議院上已經在院會已經表決通過了是你還沒送出來啊他能夠報到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3587.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3611.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
他只能講說 院長這到底怎麼回事這總預算表到現在表決通過1月21號到現在欸 要一個月喔總預算沒有送出去 到底怎麼回事這個我也很悶啦這史上所沒有的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3613.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3632.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
就大家講清楚這些事情嘛好 謝謝我們上禮拜五本來要送出卓院長親自來很誠懇的溝通希望在送出之前跟我溝通一下我也同意跟卓院長很善意的溝通卓院長特別能不能說要求說也是個呼籲朝野之間能不能聽一下行政部門的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3633.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3645.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那民進黨黨團這時候也正式遞件進來基於這兩個因素我們今天召開這個朝野協商而且這個民進黨團所遞的公文裡面也有你柯總召蓋的章那還有什麼問題咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3647.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3660.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那你就不要送這個公文不就好了嗎不是我說你公文上有蓋你的章要求我來開這個公文我也依照你民進黨的規定開了這個朝廷協商那你現在來說我是依你的話說總運算要退家 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3669.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3671.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我是依你的話因為你沒有鬆出來沒有鬆出來怎麼辦你沒有鬆出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3677.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3681.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
今天我們好不能有這樣一個草野協商希望你能夠珍惜這樣一個草野協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3699.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3726.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們現在已經從兩點鐘開始開會你來個電話說要遲到十分鐘沒有問題我尊重你兩點十分開始開會現在兩點三十二分我想我們今天好不容易有這樣一個朝野協商在明天即將中央政府總預算送出立法院的時候我們大家彼此珍惜這樣一個機會我們先聽行政部門報告然後我們朝野協商幫我們的寶貴意見一起大家來討論一下不是非常好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3728.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3745.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我不理解你你如果認為今天這個適合你根本就不要逼跟我來就好了嘛現在開始我該講話講完這個直播的誰做誰對誰說很清楚那請你開始發言一開始主持人你先開始嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3748.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3749.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想在程序上做一個詢問因為事實上我們接到的草野協商的通知書請求的就是民進黨黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3769.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3771.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以剛才講說為什麼我們有兩位總召跟那個副書記長那今天因為原來還有原定的這個時間的計劃schedule沒有辦法配合那非常抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3785.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3789.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那但是這個就是是不是應該是民進黨團我眼睛沒有花掉吧對不對是民進黨團來請求這一次的朝野協商那我不曉得民進黨團因為講的就是要談總預算嘛那總預算要談什麼呢那而且我剛才就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3805.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3828.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
如果今天柯總召今天要談的是有關於總預算的復議時間以及我們的日程的安排的話那也應該可以在這個請求上講得非常清楚嘛而且這幾天大家把我們也揣摩了很多啊對不對我們每天都在揣摩說欸這個是難道是行政院希望我們更改這個總預算嗎欸感覺我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3832.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3841.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個翻譯趕快去問很多的專家不可能啊這法定預算不可能啊那當然他也講說那還是要有庭庭席間院的意見那我們可以在這之後做些什麼協助那我們就覺得我們不需要這麼小家子氣有這樣的協商也完全都不參加不舉行所以我也想了解一下就是柯總長你們當時要求院長要開這一場的草野協商你們到底要談什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3862.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3875.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
對 你們到底要談什麼沒有 我的意思是說等我講完嘛好 等我講完如果今天這一場又是說實在到目前為止三場裡面我現在只聽到柯總統一直不停的程序發言啊欸 這被我 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3877.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3886.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這個預言我不是會看水晶球我的意思就是說如果今天的朝野協商要是來聽我們的柯總召在這邊長篇大論然後我們根本沒有辦法進入這個問題的核心跟我們會議的核心的話我覺得這一場的朝野協商恐怕是浪費時間那老師說了今天也有個 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3903.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3908.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個秘書長帶了各部會的首長來我記得兩次的我們朝野協商也是一樣各部會首長都坐在這邊啊他們沒有辦法發言欸他們完全沒有辦法發言因為柯總統一個人就一直講一直講可以講三四十分鐘人家連插話都不能插話然後我覺得今天更扯了民進黨團發文請院長來做朝野協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3930.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3944.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
然後現在呢 不給行政院任何的發言機會那個秘書長 財政部長跟主席長你們要不要回去跟卓院長抱怨一下卓院長花了這麼大的力氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3946.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3957.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
拜託韓院長能夠在這一次朝野就是在立法院送出整個總預算之前再召開一次朝野協商這不是卓院長的一個拜託和請求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3960.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3966.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那麼韓院長不是基於樂季之間的和諧來做這樣的幫忙嗎今天怎麼會變成說韓院長為什麼要召開那我覺得好奇怪你一直在詢問說那院長為什麼要召開院長你說啊你來說明啊為什麼要召開今天這兩朝也協商你有沒有問錯人啊對啊公文是你發的嘛怎麼會這樣子呢我覺得這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3989.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4016.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
你不用聽我講話 你應該聽主席講話好不好在這邊我覺得我們這些程序都已經已經釐清得非常清楚了接下來就請主席來指定看是不是因為還沒有講話的有民眾黨的黨團或者行政院要講些什麼東西其實老實講我也不是很想聽行政院講什麼東西啊可是問題是我對這一場朝野協商的認知就是卓院長拜託韓院長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4019.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4027.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
卓院長從來沒有否認這件事情喔他Never 他還對外講說如果可以 他很希望自己來參加朝野協商柯總召 你知道他要這樣講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4031.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4043.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
沒有啊 我要告訴大家事實啊前院長自己對外說他如果可以 他自己還很想來參加這個草野協商那現在是怎麼回事呢現在變成請求院長召開的我們的民進黨團的總召說不要讓行政院講話行政院根本沒有關係這到底是怎麼樣自打嘴巴我也沒有看到有這樣的一個狀況啊你要自打嘴巴也不要把我們的時間都浪費掉 好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4059.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4066.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那我回答齁 等一下我針對他 我剛才也先講他齁我針對齁 我剛才已經我剛才已經先舉手嘛 你點名我就是我啦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4076.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4105.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我再次講清楚我今天踩上車就把很多東西扶在一起我也不跟你去說那些有的沒有我很我隨便你 你要怎麼講我都沒有意見道理只有一種你永遠在鬼扯那我現在要講的就是我講的是事實 哪一句不是事實哪一句不是事實這個人啊我講完再回答好不好我講完再回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4106.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4124.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
今天這個超小規章是我發的沒錯我們發的沒錯為什麼發這個因為2月11號海岸長參加MG協調的時候出來面對機講一句話說你去想辦法召集超小規章能夠對總預算辦理最佳預算就這一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4127.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4155.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那當然今天我們今天就也很高興是不是有什麼方法或是要怎麼來解決這個問題當然相對的來講行政院也有很誠意就是說要找韓院長去談一下你有什麼方法我們希望能夠來解決這個問題你是不是有今天這一場就這樣而已今天這個問題目的就這樣那今天也不是在總計算在協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4155.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4156.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
現在請黃國昌總統 請程旭發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4186.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4202.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝院長台灣民眾黨黨團是因為收到院長所發的協商通知我們基於對院長的尊重所以來出席這場協商不過我必須要老實講很遺憾我們兩點鐘準時到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4205.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4231.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
現在已經2點40了我越聽越不是很清楚我們今天為什麼坐在這裡到底要協商什麼事情那所以看我們真的是基於善意啦院長發血量通知我也不希望說因為院長發血量通知儘管外面有很多其他大家各式各樣的公務要處理要忙我們還是基於尊重就來了那只是坐在這邊坐了40分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4234.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4258.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我真的越來越覺得困惑現在到底是要協商什麼我們今天做到這邊的目的到底是什麼可能接下來的程序上面我們還是尊重主席在意識上面的主持只是希望能夠讓程序順暢有效率一點要不然其實在浪費的也不是只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4259.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4272.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
各位黨黨幹部的時間啊,立法院所有的議事同仁、相關的人,大家的寶貴的時間其實都被浪費掉了。謝謝。那我們接下來我們請行政院廣秘書長,請您來說明一下好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4279.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4296.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我想我們本來來的時候大家心情都是比較亮一點的比較願意面對這問題比較不能說很興奮吧起碼就一個責任感在然後也很健康的心態這麼一扭曲下希望秘書長能夠把心沉澱下來好好說明好嗎好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4302.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4323.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
首先我還是要代表行政院表達感謝之意我想今天的會議說實在話是經過很多人的努力才有今天的會議所以我要特別表達感謝也有機會讓我們行政部門就是在預算三讀通過以後我們行政部門重新檢視以後發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4325.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4342.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
的確有一些是就我們行政的處理上來講是有一些自然難行那所以今天的這個會議也可以讓我們針對這幾點其中有尤其是有好幾點我們認為是自然難行是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4343.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4356.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
將來有機會看可不可以針對這幾點提出一些解決之道那這幾點我想我是不是請我們主委長簡要的跟各位來做一些說明好不好好請陳主委長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4359.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4384.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
院長還有秘書長各位委員大家午安好那我是針對本身這一次比較自愛難行的一個部分提出檢要的說明那第一個就是說伊利法院的一個審議結果通關刪檢的時候是不低於939那我們扣除已經按照比率計算的通刪數總共大概有3031 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4386.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4411.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那必須要行政院自己來刪減636億那這個金額非常的龐大在行政院來講它是有困難的而且行政院按照憲法相關的一個規定行政有預算編列的一個編制和提案權立法院有審議權那所以這個兩個是分立的一個原則那所以一般這個部分就是說將來如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4413.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4427.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
預算刪減的政治責任將歸屬會不無盈缺也會有違司法院大法官4至第391號解釋所強調的責任政治的原則也跟預算法49條會有所不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4428.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4443.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第二個比較有摯愛的一個部分就是說它集中在特定的項目特定的項目譬如說大陸地區它通商80%國外旅會通商60%這個也會嚴重的影響台灣和國際的連結包括媒體、政策和業務宣導它3.60% |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4454.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4480.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那這將使政府無法透過媒體來曾經說明各項重大一個計畫那第三個就是特別會3.60%也會影響對基層員工的一個犒賞和慰勞所以我們這個為了免影響各機關相關業務的執行那是不是建議能夠在預算執行的時候能夠辦理流用或者動資預備金那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4483.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4491.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
第三個就是說三檢凍檢它集中在特地機關的一個業務譬如說監察院它三檢2.34等於是96.5那黨產會三檢63.7那凍檢0.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4502.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4508.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
等於12.87那行政院呢3.45.44但是又凍結38.19%那總統府3.0.46億元然後約3.18但是他又凍結2.15將近61.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4521.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4542.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以這個篩檢的幅度太大 重影響機關一個基本運作和維持那所以我們是不是這個如果說我們這個按照要議案執行的話 是不是建請能夠辦理預算的流用或者動資預備金 或者用追加預算的方式來調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4543.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4563.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那因為追加預算在通過之前也會有空窗期那這空窗期是不是也能夠由各單位來辦理戰付再來第四個就是凍結數創近年新高那也是會產生業務空窗期那譬如說它解凍的條件譬如說它凍結70%要執行到30% |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4569.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4596.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
才可以解凍那這當中執行到百分之十十再申請解凍這當中的流程就會有空窗期那會影響到業務的一個執行所以這個部分是不是能夠儘速同意安排相關解凍的一個條件然後能夠由機關報告送達本院以後就由各委員會來儘速審查然後來儘速解凍以上一個補充 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4599.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4603.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
謝謝主席長的說明那財政部莊部長有沒有補充說明請那各黨團幹部有沒有要發言呢好請柯總召請 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4615.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4627.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
行政院現在點出了現在目前總運算被凍結乃至於被刪除的部分會造成的影響於自然人行的部分當然這裡還沒有講到所謂新規運算完全不能凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4631.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4647.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
所以有個人的看法就是說至少到目前我們統計有關於這個受影響的預算應該是六千多億另外有一部分沒有辦法算出來就是主結衣的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4648.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4665.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以我知道這個數字以往和主計數、總計算數的數字是不一樣所以目前沒有辦法算出總計算數最主要是因為主結義必須文字、頁字一個字對得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4665.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4690.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那主決定會影響到預算數所以呢 醫保安現在只能就是說當天三輪通過那個條文三輪通過先讀的時候你講的有關於主決定的部分請行政院進行處理這是我講的 就是說我們總之上不管送出去或送不出去都是違憲的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4692.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4701.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這是我的基本看法那我不知道其他黨團的看法怎麼樣最後還是請海恩長定鬥好不好好 謝謝柯總長王宏威處理長請發言好 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4704.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4726.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我剛才很仔細的聽我們那個組計長他說的話那我剛才講一開始就說我們今天這個協商我們基本上是非常open-minded就是我們非常願意來做就是如果你真的覺得有摯愛難行的地方那麼我們是可以來做來共同的來做協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4727.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4742.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
但是這裡面有一些其實我必須講這是謬誤的話我還是要必須做一些澄清第一個其實我們說了很多次凍結不等於刪減不等於剪裂 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4746.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4771.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
凍結不等於簡列凍結預算不等於三減預算這一陣子事實上如果我今天要講說包含由行政院各部會所包含你們用新聞稿用梗圖所釋放出來的假消息我要講一個小時都講不完我不要浪費大家時間但是有一些我必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4772.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4789.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
序名 那剛才你們提出的一些的問題我再做具體的來做回覆那剛剛講就是說 凍結它不是刪減而且呢 你們在12項就是要提出這個草野協商因為你們大概有12個問題滿滿整理出來 零零種種的整理出來那我要告訴大家 因為有時候必須要以正視聽就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4801.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4805.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這次在講說凍結預算的比例說創新高所以我們凍太多了我們已經講過因為三減預算即便三減之後你仍然有將近三兆還是創下歷年來中央政府總預算稅出的最高規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4824.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4836.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這是經過刪減之後所以你們後來有另外一個話術 裡面就講說不是喔 不是只有刪減喔包含凍結數的比例也是創新高你們裡面講到這個凍結啊 說高達1381億元 約4.6%4.6%是所有凍結的比例創新高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4853.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4877.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以有時候我又是看到一些側翼也好包含我們坐在對面包含當黨團幹部的對預算這個了解之前而且甚至不願意用工具找這個資料我都已經覺得期期以為不可但是如果今天是來自於行政院這個數字可以有這樣大的一個這個誤差錯誤我也覺得更不可原諒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4883.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4888.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
可以看到過去在整個的凍結數來說90年度凍結數6.88%94年度12.71%95年度13.24%97年度6.74%98年度5.08%99年度5.31%102年度10.06%103年度5.84% |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4911.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4935.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好 114年度 4.6%好 這就是114 就是今年度好啦 我剛才很快速的把它念過一遍 大家就知道怎麼可能說今年的凍結數創下新高呢完全不是 我剛才劈啪啦就講了好幾個年度它的比例甚至最高我看到13.24%所以這個的謬誤我一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4939.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4942.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
把它講清楚 核先序名然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4945.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4970.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
在這裡面就是剛才主計總署說的就是是不是可以辦理流用動之預備金追加預算甚至追加預算之前佔付那我要講就是說我們今天的整個的我們的朝野協商一定我們還是要遵循這個法律相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4971.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4992.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
就是追加預算本來就是行政院在預算程序上的它的法定的權利也就是行政院當然可以提追加預算只是你這個追加預算提過來之後呢送到立法院我們依然依照預算的程序來做進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4994.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5002.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以最佳預算說實在你必須要送到立法院來但是呢我們在這邊並不需要協商我在這邊協商也不能說不行你不能送最佳預算因為這個也確實就是不符合我們業績之間的這些權責所以行政院要最佳預算我們沒有什麼意見但是他要依照法定的程序依法來提出依法的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5024.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5027.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
第二點是說 希望能夠加速來做預算的凍結其實我剛剛講 凍結預算不是從今年度才開始凍結預算的規模今年度也不是最高 往年凍結預算多的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5042.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5044.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那當然你凍結預算它有程序那這次確實在凍結預算裡面有一些你可能送委員會就OK了有一些要送院會那基本上呢就是你們認為比較有急迫性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5057.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5061.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我也知道比如說今天也許我凍結你30%說你可以用到3月份4月份都夠可是你可能講說對不起我可能很快的我可能在第一季或者4月之前我可能這整筆預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5073.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5082.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我就要招標我也知道在預算的程序有這樣的程序那如果你提出這樣合理的來說明我相信不管委員會和院會大家也都會來全力的來做協助我剛講的狀況確實如此比如說我們在講那個流感疫苗本來不是在那邊造謠嗎說什麼流感疫苗通被那個什麼就是被那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5099.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5119.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
立法院刪掉了 被藍白刪除 流感疫苗預算所以大家打不到疫苗 瓜扯 不到沒有刪而且呢 你現在打的疫苗 就是之前大家搶的疫苗事實上是在去年4月開標的所以同樣的 比如說你在流感疫苗它也許編列全部 它可能4月份要開標 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5121.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5131.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我只是舉這個例子 這個事實上呢 它也沒有做什麼 沒有刪除嘛那我想說 如果我們在凍結的預算裡面 有一些有這樣狀況的話那就提出報告 到委員會來 到院會來因為我們三月份 事實上我們三月各委員會就選出召委了嘛 對不對好 這個部分 就是凍結預算的部分依法程序送進來 我覺得沒有什麼問題嘛 這是第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5150.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5176.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那第三個就是說你要辦理流用主席長你的流用是流水的流不是流下來的流對不對好 辦理流用但是呢我剛才詢問一下我們黨團同仁就是我們在預算法有相關規定就是如果是被這個刪除的預算他好像就不能做流用對不對主席長我有沒有講錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5180.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5206.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
你點頭對嘛 不然沒有記錄啊對不對嘛所以為什麼要協商就是這樣好 沒有沒有 所以我講的對不對嘛我們才能協商嘛你沒有記錄 你是讓人家還要記錄怎麼樣你的搖頭點頭所以如果在預算法裡面已經有相關規定我在這邊就講預算法裡有規定我就沒有辦法透過協商說我OK啊你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5208.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5219.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們協商是在法裡面授權我們可以做的空間裡面我們來做調整法裡面如果定的死死的 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5220.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5225.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們協商也不可能改變啊對不對就像我們總預算三讀通過了我們不可能我們幾個幹部坐下來哎呀這個不好這個加一點那個減一點我們不可能做這樣的一個調整那同樣的我在這邊回覆給主計長的是除非你今天找到在 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5238.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5264.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
法令上你過去有潛力或什麼等等之類只是因為我剛才非常仔細聽你講的一些的辦法辦理流用如果在預算法裡面已經有相關規定那這個就很難從我們協商的部分來做這個調整那另外一個就是戰付你剛講追加之前戰付嘛就是你們先行付款那我個人認為這個比較不可取啦你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5269.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5297.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為如果我同意你戰賦的話等於我在這邊我就先同意你追加預算了那可是我們即便是幹部我們後面還有五十幾位同仁我們沒有辦法我的意思是說基本上民主黨應該懂我意思對不對他如果說今天我要追加預算就讓他可以追加來提追加然後我們來討論但是他說我要給他同意戰賦這是我給他一個空白支票 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5298.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5301.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你懂我意思嗎就是我同意你你戰負那還得了你未來追加我還非同意你不可那我覺得這個有點愉悅了我們這個黨團幹部的我們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5311.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5337.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
的這個全責啦所以我這一部分我比較有保留那我想我是非常負責任的一票一項聽你我是很務實的一項一項的來做回應那當然你我剛剛講法律上如果你能找到一些我們可以有調整空間那我們再來談如果法上訂的這個已經鐵板釘釘的事情我們就很難透過協商啦這個我也是回覆秘書長好不好這法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5340.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5365.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
不一定的時時的我們就沒有辦法好不好謝謝謝謝王副署長 請黃總召請謝謝院長針對剛剛行政院的代表所做的說明台灣民眾黨黨團我們希望表達幾個基本的立場第一個行政院的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5367.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5394.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
剛剛說總預算的審查有什麼治安難行那甚至有什麼違憲都說出來了那就請行政院依法你如果認為治安難行那你就提附議你如果認為違憲那你就去憲法法庭反正附議根據憲法法庭我相信我們現在在行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5395.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5417.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這兩招用得非常的純熟不需要在這邊多做琢磨那至於說復議送來了以後等你們正式復議送來了以後我們依照法定程序該怎麼處理就怎麼處理那第二件事情我也想利用今天這個黨團協商的機會因為是韓院長應卓榮泰院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5424.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5453.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
的請求等於善意召開了這一場黨團協商那我可以理解韓院長寬容大度希望調和頂岸的苦心跟用意台灣民眾黨黨團都理解這也是為什麼我們今天坐在這裡但是既然是由行政院所提出的請求韓院長基於善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5454.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5483.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
也請行政院的代表今天坐在這個地方有幾個訊息就要拜託我們行政院的代表回去能夠幫忙轉告左宗泰院長遇到任何困難的事情請求韓院長協助的時候行政院自己要先好好的想一想你們在面對問題的基本態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5485.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5512.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我為什麼這樣說去年一樣從進法補償公糧收購價格健保點子一樣是請韓院長幫忙啊結果後來發生了什麼事後來發生的是最後繞過韓院長行政院院長自己找商黨黨團的幹部跑去行政院協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5513.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5539.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
結果協商完了以後有落實嗎有落實嗎為什麼特別提這件事情在整個總預算審查的過程當中行政院的荒腔走板令人不敢恭維除了剛剛文化委員所特別提出來的中央廚房所製造的假訊息假圖卡滿天飛耶滿天飛耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5543.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5550.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
甚至還有部會來找我們黨團溝通的時候我當面問他們很奇怪你們說要來找我們溝通我們敞開大門結果你們行政院攻擊的圖卡假訊息滿天飛這到底是怎麼回事直接跟我承認上面要求要做他們也很無奈 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5572.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5591.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個是行政院應該有的態度嗎這是第一件事情第二件事情既往以前在總預算院會審查的過程當中行政院都會派人在院會後面協助我們立法院相關的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5593.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5616.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
針對有關於各個科目的調整各個科目的刪除、凍結、協助結果這一次我們在審總預算的時候行政院我們在議場背後幫行政院所留的辦公室空無一人雙手一攤全部丟給我們立法院這邊的同仁讓我們財委會那邊的專員 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5622.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5626.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
從來沒有發生過這樣的事情搞得大家雞飛狗跳有很多數字有很多data是掌握在行政院的手裡結果行政院擺出這樣子的態度顯然就是要杯葛嘛顯然就是要杯葛嘛前面擺出這樣子的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5652.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5663.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
然後等到總預算結束了以後卓榮泰院長人多事忙立法院完成了三讀了以後他要去救災他要去勘災 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5665.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5687.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
行政院沒有派半個人到立法院來針對三讀以後的總預算做任何的表示那也都算了因為那都是形式上的東西那不是實質上的東西實質上的東西在立法院處理整個總預算的過程當中行政院基本上面的態度就是杯葛就是擺爛我那時候在議場後方那時候院長率團到美國去 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5695.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5724.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
基於公務副院長在主持院會我那時候在議場後方中間休息的時候我去看副院長去看秘書長去看我們立法院的同仁大家辛苦成什麼樣子我看了都於心不忍我看了真的於心不忍歷經了這樣子行政院對待立法院的程序以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5727.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5753.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
結果卓榮泰再度搬救兵再去拜託韓院長有今天的協商我希望行政院對於自己過去在處理總預算歷程當中所有的言行我希望卓榮泰院長能夠深刻的檢討反省這不是面對國會應該有的基本態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5754.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5784.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
第三點進入今天的主題我非常驚訝的聽到三讀通過的總預算本來就沒有在事後處理的空間法治上面本來就這樣這個是國會處理預算的ABC不需要複述但我剛剛比較驚訝的是什麼比較驚訝的事情是說我們行政院的官員竟然會要求說到刪掉的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5785.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5814.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
要留用那是要獻這個黨團協商於不義嗎要透過這個黨團協商來踐踏我們預算法的明文規定嗎黨團協商通過了以後預算法被刪除就不能再留用是希望我們做成一個決議一個共識來踐踏台灣的預算法制嗎這個是我們的行政院今天跑來國會所提出的解決方案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5816.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5836.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我剛剛聽到這樣子的內容我必須要老實說不可置信我們也根本不可能同意怎麼會讓我們黨團協商允許行政院去做違反預算法的事情光提出這個要求之本身我必須要老實說就已經離譜自己了最後行政院依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5844.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5872.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
你們要提什麼追加預算等等提出預算 那個是行政院的權責啊我沒有什麼特別的意見那但是你如果即使要用追加預算的方式那你也要給大家看啊你要追加什麼項目啊 什麼內容啊做什麼事情啊 多少錢啊才有任何往下討論的基礎嘛那現在這件事情看起來完全全部都是空的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5873.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5902.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那至於說就有關於預算遭受到凍結那預算遭受到凍結的部分我開議了以後你們就早一點依照立法院的要求把相關的資料都提出來那我們當然會依法來加以處理有關於預算解凍的事情那我想這個基本上面的態度我先代表台灣民眾黨黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5903.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5930.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
跟各個黨團的代表,我們行政院的代表還有韓院長做說明院長,換我講個話好,請我今天訪問得最好,能夠聽人說話我先給大家握握訪問開始的一句話就是對的總預算已經算得通過了你沒有送出行政院總統公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5933.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5960.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那要怎麼呼籲啊你送出來他原來有呼籲,呼籲以後才依照憲政程序去處理這是ABC,這是對的黃國昌只有這句話講對其他每一句話都講錯黃國昌每一句話都錯這竟然是講憲政問題他在談這個問題可不可以留用,那就是預算法裡面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5961.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5987.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
他問一些問題都是一算法都有了所以相對的行政院的講法完全正確因為關於現在會不會有用一算法的問題行政院還是有一個態度就是說總預算你沒有送出來我們沒有呼籲到城市走的話我們怎麼去要求你嘛我們態度是一樣的我們再一一解讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5989.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6018.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
安委沒有抓到重點每一句話都講預算法的問題我不知道那會計師手插的是什麼意思我們今天不是就在講預算嗎我講話我講話 你在講預算啊你看我說每一句都講預算問題所以我句句講重點沒有講廢話 我不講廢話沒關係 你不要再插嘴了你不要插嘴 反正他習慣這樣啦我們不要重句就好了院長 我今天講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6020.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6043.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
在憲政體制下合法合憲才有可能進行今天後面所謂的可以不可以追加預算假如說總預算到現在三途通過以後因為陳昱臻因為這個那個委員會的招委一句話說不要送出去就可以不送出去的話天下大難 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6044.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6060.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
立法院議決的事情是憲法行為是委員會召委陳一貞或是徐清穎說不在場的就不在場的立法院搗亂了立法院關門了前立法院原則是立法院憲法六三條寫很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6062.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6080.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
憲法六十二條,立法院是最高立法機關,六十三條立法委員,議決法律案、運輸案、憲章過河案、草案等等包括一年命令等幾種國家重大事項立法院之前貴賓在憲法六十三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6081.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6107.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那立法院所負責的當然是韓院長所以李懷宜,你是有附屬李懷宜總院長、胡秀祥、胡行政院五院各有幾長你甚至在這個地方,你講說你要負責我說你怎麼負責,你就打不出來那做完來的,包括那個藝術師副長也不知道怎麼回答我今天講得很清楚今天院長你就是要知道在哪裡你代表了立法院你就要用負責立法院預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6109.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6128.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
然後整理得很好,完全合線性也就是說一毛錢都不能差,這是很重要但是你們今天弄不出來所以醫師就黃國昌剛才在講的每一句話都錯他往那邊跑掉,因為我又在賭我要講說,他只有一句話講對,其他就講錯他說為什麼在 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6134.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6152.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
表決的時候那議長後面都沒有半個行政人員在那邊幫忙他看了就想哭因為沒有人知道你會表決什麼你馬上再改一改去連你們自己啊藍白都不知道自己現在表決什麼一團亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6154.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6177.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
編軍在蓋 也有在現場 也有在後台去蓋然後送來送去所以一團團 這是你們做的你還快說行政組織會不會來幫忙你行政組織是你自己做的 你要自己負責行政院的組織長他沒有全力以後要來幫助立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6179.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6200.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
的預算它是在總預算 你在審查的時候它代表行政院來當然是呢 預算是你自己的負責所以你再改一改去 連同窩藏自己本身也不知道改什麼就亂丟進來嘛總共第一次就丟四千兩百案子到最後多少案子 你知道嗎 院長你根本不知道啊因為你找了美國啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6203.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6226.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
國民黨所有 包括沈憶珍那一款 不知道看什麼沈憶珍也不知道知道 我每一題都知道我不要跟你談 因為你今天沒有我們今天講話很精簡所以 國民黨講說他看到這樣不行就不敢恭維完全錯誤你自己就搞不清楚你在做什麼事總而言之上沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6229.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6248.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
總算是立法院在審的行政院主事主總你有義務說幫你算出來這樣這樣以後那行政院自己配預算自己把預算審查通過就好了這潛力分析原則所以今天我們要談的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6250.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6270.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
當然所有行為在合法的事情底下才能夠辦理最佳但做得到嗎我看目前還沒做得到因為你總統一串都還沒送出去嘛所以韓議長你今天必須回答總統一串什麼時候送出去當然送完以後送給總統和行政長然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6273.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6294.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
然後我們展開後續的憲法行為行為復一復一往下走下去只要沒有這一套沒有照這樣的憲法行為合法合憲的話我們在談判之節就是當晚時間以上好不好好 謝謝普通預算明天我們明天總預算就會送出我們現在請張啟凱委員發言陳毅政委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6303.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6326.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們非常珍惜今天這個協商的機會請不要任何的人身攻擊更不要污名化立法院幫人民看緊荷包審查預算你看看美國川普跟馬斯克現在在做什麼事情在延審預算幫人民看緊每一分納稅錢你看掌聲有多大你看他們查出來用AI進去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6328.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6351.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
查出來一個財政部就有3500億的美金有問題包括有幾百名那個超過100歲以上那個後來查連人都查不到他們就把這個抓出來看緊人民這個納稅錢現在我們做的不就這樣嗎每一筆砍的這個預算刪減的預算跟凍結都有它的理由啊所以我請拜託一下今天我覺得第一個原則先確認剛剛主席韓院長講得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6354.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6360.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
今天的 今年度的中央政府總預算已經三讀通過了火車已經開了行政部門跟民進黨之前一路杯葛 造謠火車開之前你們該提的不提今天一堆話 還造謠 還抹黑拜託一下 今天坐下來珍惜這個機會我共同來解決問題 這個才是正解 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6379.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6387.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那我們台灣民眾黨非常理性 物質 科學我針對剛剛行政部門提出來12點我提出兩個從歷史上去找答案剛剛啊 書記你們說你們這次凍結預算啊太多你們不曉得怎麼辦這個有成功的個案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6400.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6406.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在2005年跟2006年分別凍結多少?2078億跟2129億在2006年的時候那時候院長謝長廷說凍結太多了那時候秘書長叫做卓榮泰就現在行政院長說要提復議案可是陳水扁沒有答應欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6421.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6444.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
陳水扁說為了朝野和諧不要提副院 而且這問題是可以解決的結果呢 行政院長謝長廷 秘書長卓榮泰下台了副院沒有提出來接他的行政院長叫做蘇貞昌蘇貞昌來拜會立法院的院長王金平院紀之間協商非常好 2000多億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6448.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6474.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
凍結預算慢慢順利順利就解凍了沒有影響到2006年任何的施政為什麼陳水扁能現在戴清德不行為什麼當初的蘇貞昌行現在周中泰都不行呢提什麼不一樣明明也可以解決的啊所以你們提出來這個案子是有解藥的嘛好不好 主席長秘書長回去跟行政院長講清楚也跟戴總統講清楚那一種當初陳水扁能做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6475.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6483.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
賴清德為什麼不能做另外你剛剛講說檢列了600多億你沒辦法調來我給你一個例子2002年2002年那一年的立法院三讀通過要行政院跟這次一樣自行檢列685億比今年還多耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6500.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6527.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
結果行政院來喊 跟立法院講說他們有困難 跟這次一樣後來解決沒有 解決了啊主席長跟財政部長應該都會點頭你去看一下 當初為什麼後來解決了後來去查京省的時候債務 公債啊累積的債務放到中央政府來那時候的利息啊 都還7點多%可是那時候已經歷經了 利息十幾降了一般的利息都已經2.5 2.2了 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6531.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6550.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
中間的落差就是600多億所以後來行政部門自行調整了600多億當初的行政院有辦法去解決這685億今天為什麼同樣是自行要你調整你找不到錢這也是成功的個案啊當初的行政院則是張進雄啊張進雄選為什麼狀態不行呢所以我從歷史的事件去看你不管是凍結2000億跟這次一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6560.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6586.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
有解答後來圓滿沒有完全什麼自來然形的事情你自行調整600多億人家比你多都可以找得到你為什麼找不到呢所以你提了那個12點最重要的兩點都解開啦更重要的就是院長一直在強調的在我們火車已經開了不能再去動到內容的時候你依照預算法你有太多的方式可以做啊你趕快提出來你要怎麼去解凍好不好當初為什麼有凍結2000多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6589.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6617.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
就是因為我們在執行的時候關聯都是要嘛就反執行要嘛就當成木頭人連打都不打我們好不容易通過一個國會改革要有調查權你們也不給你執行沒有辦法嘛所以為什麼要凍結就請你提出解決方案來啊你就趕快提出解決方案來你就解凍了嘛是不是這樣子所以這兩千多億根本就不是問題趕快提出來你就可以解凍了第二個你還可以追加預算啊你要有第二億倍金啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6619.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6646.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以拜託一下今天第一個不要有人身攻擊然後我們去解決問題我今天從歷史去提供解答我長久追預算的這個新聞這個都是有利可行的我講的都非常具體對不對所以拜託一下今天行政部門來了提出問題我們也解答幫你們解答了回去解決問題不要再提復議案了用這個方式來解答這樣對全民才是好的你看復議案來了你到立法院也過不了嘛對不對又徒生這個爭議有什麼特別的意義呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6647.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6672.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
趕快解決問題好不好謝謝謝謝剛才立法委員的發言等一下好不好我講一下讓我等一下好不好你等一下好不好我一定要講我們請陳一貞委他舉手了嘛請陳一貞委員發言您稍等我想因為這個是他什麼時候主席他怎麼有機會講話那個柯總早我想我們這個是公開的直播齁我們一定要把一些事情說清楚啊請你不要汙名化韓院長還有我們所有的立法委員啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6673.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6681.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
你聽一下你不要跟那天表決總議選的時候根本人就消失不見大家去看一下藝術錄那天我們偶然有表決說誰沒有在現場不是因為有郭富貞人在美國拚外加海運長是柯建民啊柯建民整個大約都不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6690.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6716.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
表決都有記名 你看上面有沒有柯建民的名字你根本就不在 你還文明化不管是國民黨委員或是在場的其他委員說不知道在表決什麼在不在場 不在場都是柯建民那時候我還報案提出來我上次有跟民進黨委員說怎麼柯建民都不在他說他年紀大了 不要太委員他我說好 所以我現場沒有提出來你現在竟然文明化所有在現場熬夜表決的委員當初吳思瑤 蔡宇在那邊寫一個白板寫了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6717.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6743.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
從曾經有兩個錯誤還現場舉手說蔡宇你寫錯了提案人不是這個人我每一個版你們寫每一個我都在看請你不要自己因為自己不好意思說你不耐操晚上沒有辦法熬夜表決然後就污名化所有在場的委員所以我們都不知道表決什麼題目這個是第一個因為這是公開的請你不要這樣污名化所有的立法委員也不要污名化文網立法委員然後也不要因為你自己對意識權利的不熟悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6744.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6769.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
就污名話說我們才會沒有送出去我們上面有把理由寫得清清楚楚哪一年發生過什麼事情曾經這樣做過所以你當了這麼久的立法院我們非常的尊重你不表示每一件事情你都知道所以我們今天在朝野協商我想是公開的請他不要藉由在協商的過程中一直做不實的指控以讓我們維持對你的尊重謝謝我們休息一下 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6799.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6803.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
都有會議紀錄啦 你都不在啦沒有在現場就是柯建民啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
7469.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
7486.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 再一次麻煩各黨團幹部請坐也謝謝各位行政官員請坐然後議場人員麻煩把門關一下 謝謝那接下來我們第二階段的會議開始我們請柯總召請發言其他發言的委員請舉手告知 謝謝 請柯總召院長我想大家都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
7500.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
7521.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這次武漢國際在發言的時候完全不一樣的態度非常溫文儒雅 慈眠善默也不入侵金剛你鼻子會不會變長啊等一下 你不要插話那插話換我講你 你會很難過的因為我看清楚什麼事情應該生氣什麼事情應該冷靜來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
7529.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7553.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
但是首先我在這裡要抗議陳一貞當我腳開刀以後我不能來站太久,也不能坐太久所以於是我就在辦公室裡面看電視到今天來我還拿拐杖假如以一個病人的身體做攻擊的目標這是非常極大不道德然後科技裡面沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7555.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7572.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
大家都知道那你不要攻擊在場的委員有去表決的人我不會攻擊你我不會攻擊你我是用上級的眼光在原諒所有世人那這樣的時候我還是講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7573.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7595.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
可是有一天,陳醫生如果扛回去,我要求說要一百塊,不可以這樣這是一個大計好不好,我今天先抗議這個但是沒有關係,你自己做自己說,對我來講毫毫無傷所以第一點第二點我要講的就是說,看起來很顯然黃紅莊走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7597.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7621.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
因為黃國昌講的和張其凱兩個完全不同調黃國昌講對,那一句話是對的只要你沒有送出去沒有送出去,沒有呼籲沒有讓總統公告總統公告然後呼籲才有後面的程序可以做這是一個鐵律 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7623.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7651.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
黃中智講這些話對,其他你們都錯,我剛剛也講過,他不在乎,不予以他批評張恩齊凱我認識他將近二十年以上三十年?也許三十年,他...你難說話齁?你不資格跟我說話齁?我現在跟你說一個很嚴重的事情你沒有資格跟你跟我講話啦因為什麼呢?因為他既然齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7653.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7679.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
過去大家老朋友 你預算增加之際但是今天我看到張旭財 張旭凱他過去完全不一樣而且他講話那個聲音一調好像目中無人一副好像一副他現在是最前衛的我講這個很大概看不出來你要講那些東西 你都忘記了你隔壁的佛像講什麼話 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7681.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7702.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
你沒有照憲法 合法的憲法走的時候你在推移那些行為講的都是我可以一一答覆你因為你講的那些歷史案子都是我處理的我在現場你不要講話你沒有資格在我講話的時候講話好不好我現在講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7707.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7717.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為所謂總運算已經過去了我是草小的大小阿明說我是總召那目前還是總召我總運算超級小 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7719.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7742.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
也極大的時候耶 周哥超級大 我們27期的時候我有當總召在20幾年來有當綠環總召事實上我是在學習很多但我們我們大黨的時候我們要懂得一大思想但我們小黨的時候我們要怎麼樣 非常從容 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7747.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7769.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
會讓從農來應戰是在勝時的時候要謹慎盡當逆逐的時候我們要從農這是我的哲學但是就使用它追著我們要從農來對付這些事情如何逆轉勝這是我今天要告訴各位所以張旭台當阿扁時代的時候2000年我們輸了20票20是一樣輸了20票 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7774.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7793.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
為什麼兩次會輸20票我們整個預算法案都可以完成因為經過超越協商反正那時候院長叫誰?說王金平院長他會調而定來因為法案協商24次也在協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7794.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7818.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
總算沒有一先說先去說明就做下來,一案一案的處理我們黨提多少案子,再聯盟提多少案子或許陳文憲在立法院的時候,王忠祐他們在立法院的時候那時候還成立一個很多刺激團體叫做打鬼周避,周避打鬼小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7819.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7824.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
然後找,今天國會所長叫什麼,早生匯報,晚生匯報 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7826.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7841.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以後來,行政院副院長問我,林欣欣問我說,這樣是怎麼講?財務局把我叫去,他把我叫去,怎麼叫他叫去?叫警察在那裡練?那時候行政院秘書長誰?2002年行政院秘書長誰?是劉思芳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7852.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7874.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
現在民主黨的助理是誰?就坐在我隔壁這個叫做吳思堯立法會他過去跟現在長得完全一樣,都沒有老掉因為心情好,心好的人不會老所以他現在長得像大學畢業一樣所以今天要講的就是說那今天我們的環境面,那時候我們面對的是什麼?面對的是一個國民黨的威權體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7876.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7890.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
李登輝時期連戰時期但是我們今天面對的是我們今天不是面對國務黨的危險只是我們是面對的習近平那現在的議員長是不是韓國瑜先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7894.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7915.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
韓院長從來沒有當過院長也沒有當過立法委員他也沒有當過黨鞭所以這意識成一雙你講我第20次沒有當黨鞭了我當國民黨團書記長的時候立法院主任叫曾勇權 執行長叫饒穎齊我當國民黨團書記長你大概講了我二三十次我都沒有當過黨鞭麻煩你以後不要再講了一個黨鞭叫做饒穎齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7919.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7945.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
老闆其實是...老闆叫他當編老闆出門跟他旺牙出門,黑黑的叫,不得了然後才有小黨編,只會要扶本那坦白講連王金平院長他都自己講說他沒有當過公安黨編但是他能夠當立法院長這只要他...他能夠...才會聽來所以今天要講的時候,再回顧過來徐凱雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7948.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7974.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
你講的那些例子,都是在王金明院長的時代當鄭永全,我們跟鄭永全聽,我那時候跟鄭永全鄭永全都跟布魯恩傑那是現在非常好的朋友因為各種旗鼓,都沒有任何私心都沒有任何的個人利益他們信任現在的價格阿或是服從阿扁的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7976.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7985.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
總糟糕的獎勵誰會回家開直播大家時間這麼寶貴可不可以直接切入主題如果你要獎勵只回去你的辦公室開直播我還沒講完好不好不是你要講多久咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7986.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
8014.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
你希望我們要抗議啊 大家時間都這麼寶貴還要講歷史 回辦公室開直播我現在去看人眼睛他是沒有資格要參加的人我覺得你沒有資格這邊五四三沒有資格 你根本沒有去參加表決義士路拿來看一下我是腳痛嘛我腳受傷 所以沒有辦法進來你如果這麼不堪 你們反正是不能去還可以逮捕下一位你請賴總統幫你排另外一個位置讓你不用這麼辛苦好不好我是不跟你吵架不是只有我的時間是時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
8016.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
8033.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
他是沒有資格來參加協商的人因為這次他不是黨鞭他竟然鬧場,沒有關係我不是來鬧場我把話講完已經不是第一次了竹葉鄉當時候開不成也是因為你一直在盤古開天堂那我把話講完,院長你請你請你請我們讓柯總統繼續,麻煩一下我現在講張其凱的事情,張其凱今天來講,那時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
8040.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
8053.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
總之算是,都打擾學生都害了鄭永元突然出了殺手鐧是佔多少?700多億那稅數稅務要平衡吧那已經大家講好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
8054.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
8083.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
董事長要平衡嘛你再砍一個稅率700多億的時候相對的你稅率要砍700多億是不是這樣所以那時候主席長叫我臨前他說要辭職他沒有辦法國民黨丟一個刀子他去砍自己砍哪一個部位砍多少我說林院長主席長你不要辭職也是我創造一個叫做梁院院長協商也就是說行政院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
8087.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
8108.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
跟立法院長去協商因為那時候是 談的時候是蔡英文當副院長蘇英文當院長的時候所以到後來 游興文院長跟王金平院長去協商砍國債戶籍可是國債本來要給人家錢怎麼可以砍呢可是砍國債戶籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
8109.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
8114.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
然後呢 大家在委員長同意的時候再把這個預算恢復起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
8116.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
8143.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以預算有規定所有被抗議算都兩院議員同意的話是可以辦以追加的是可以追加議員不同意的話你追加預算都沒得辦今天是我們要追加將來有機會追加預算的時候綠西南白都要同意這是一個前提但是要走過前面那一段就是先呼應再講所以那時候才這樣完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
8147.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
8167.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
蘇貞昌那一次有一次是國民黨不同意不同意幫你出家所以就被砍掉了所以到張金雄當行政院長的時候才完成所以這兩次是不同的樣態一個是同意恢復一個是已經被砍掉了但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
8173.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
8201.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
但是議員不同意所以我到歡迎行政院長才重新再來這就是剛才張旗楷所談的歷史案例你只是其次表面你完全不瞭解也許你瞭解不如曲解這是我自己親身經歷過最後我只要講一句話今天我們所有覺得大家不要互相指責就是說總而言之 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
8204.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
8225.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
你已經審查完畢 審訊了你趕快送出給總統府 送給行政院然後行政院才能夠呼籲呼籲的結果 都實現就在這程序其他什麼路都沒有得走所以真正我只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
8226.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
8243.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
拜託韓院長我們今天講半天其實本來只有一句話我們講了一個小時四十七分那以上沒有關係我們把話講清楚就好了好的 謝謝期待韓院長官的採釋會議案安排什麼時候當然尊重韓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
8249.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
8267.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
謝謝柯總統 親愛的委員請簡短二要請我簡短啦 因為老蔣今天喔 你看秘書長跟財政部還有一些官員都在這邊那我們立法院的職員從秘書長 大家都很辛苦在這邊我覺得我們如果在講廢話就對不起人民納的付的這個納稅錢 辛苦的納稅錢我覺得以後如果在這邊浪費時間的人應該付我們的這些人民納稅錢被辜負的還有這個浪費的 應該要把錢捐出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
8277.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
8297.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
要不然再對不起我們全國民眾這是我第一個提議那第二個我謝謝萬年總召把剛剛我講的話重新的重複了一次當然你一定是比我更清楚你是當事人我那時候是電視主持人可能沒有你精準不過我相信我們的理念是一樣的我們今天提出來就是這是一個解藥嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
8297.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
8311.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
因為他們提了12項今天行政院提了說12項要解決了裡面最嚴重的他們就是認為說被凍結了太多那我剛剛講的2006年真的就是一個到後來是有解決只要大家好好談是可以的第二個你現在說636億你現在找不到錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
8314.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
8338.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
對不對 那我也跟你講以前2002年都有成功的這個個案我相信柯總知道你又重複了一次你應該也是認為說只要他們願意去做這兩個問題可以解決然後另外12項裡面還有一個比較特別的我知道你們一直在講說那個什麼外交部啦 出國預算被砍的比他原來預算還多變了1億多 然後變了1億多 怎麼被砍了1億4沒有這個事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
8339.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
8366.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
預算審查當然你沒有錢怎麼可能去砍呢你說被砍兩次那就是預算被砍的三減就是崇高那一次沒有加這個東西好不好沒有的錢也不會被砍所以12項你列出來你只要從2006年的這個成功個案2002年的這個個案每一項去處理我覺得今天是應該是很正面我們可以解決問題更重要的我覺得我們要肯定也謝謝院長這麼善意的召開這樣的一個協商這個協商就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
8368.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
8389.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
第一個不是像柯總政在擔心什麼預算內容被改或者什麼沒有送出去 沒有我們每一年的總預算審查三途之後本來就大概十到十五天的這個整理嘛差不多也就這個時間嘛所以明天本來就要送出去而且內容沒有要改我們今天重點是什麼今天就是一方面也請聽也讓行政部門來那我們經過這樣初步一個溝通我們認為十二項的這個問題都可以解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
8393.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
8421.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
對不對 大部分都是可以解決的嘛那就不要再提復一案 這個是最理想的好不好 我們希望今天有建設性的那其他的話我是覺得 既然已經找到答案了就趕快做 好不好那如果真的不得已 弄到後來就會像弄到後來就像剛剛黃國昌黃首相講的嘛如果民進黨政府只是說希望還是要對沖然後一定要提這個復一案你反正這個案子送到立法院還是不會過嘛我倒覺得現在比較好的這個建設 是我剛剛提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
8422.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
8445.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
依照2006年 依照2002年這個成功個案趕快去解決這樣不只兩邊不會再對撞 趕快希望升級我們多一點時間來這個復國立民的法案嘛經濟的法案多來審一些好不好共同當人民多說一點事情 謝謝謝謝張啟凱委員的發言各位我現在做個宣告我們今天的協商顯然沒有辦法達成三黨的共識 非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
8446.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
8462.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
第二點就是立法院是我們依憲法最高的民意機關代表人民行使相關職權114年度中央政府總預算已經三度通過也做出最終的決議因此基於對民意的尊重我們也請行政院能夠尊重本院的決議不宜輕易提出負議 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
8463.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
8480.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
增加朝野的紛爭但是我們會尊重行政院做任何決定三 如果行政院對114年度中央政府總委預算不提出呼應我們在此建一個黨團我們大家一起來參考行政院將來後續我們來討論有什麼方案可行一 有關預算解凍部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8481.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8498.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們交由各委員會處理 請各黨團拜託要求所屬的召集委員儘速排案我們很快3月份我們就會選出召委立刻讓預算解凍程序開始啟動二 如果業務費的資用有困難我們請新增參考預算法第22條的規定 請立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8499.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8518.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們同意使用預備金三行政院認為有必要追加預算的時候請妥約說明我們再行溝通送本院來審議這是我所提出的一個我們共同研擬的一個苦口的良藥可能會有一些大家心裡有壓力但是我們這個路是可以走下去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8519.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8531.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那以上呢是提供各行政部門以及相關黨團大家來共同來協商那今天總預算的爭議我們雖然沒辦法達成共識但是不管怎麼樣也非常感謝各黨團也謝謝行政部門也列席那不管是總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8537.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8563.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
行政院的卓院長都希望在送出預算之前能夠再溝通一次今天各黨團大家也很善意也都坐下來大家齊聚一堂也是希望未來立法院行政院能夠在衝突爭議之中仍然有一條路可以健康開朗的走下去那我們也當然希望行政院也能夠顧及到這樣的一個大局後續我們當然也要尊重行政院所做的任何決定也請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8565.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8581.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
以及相關的官員、首長們帶回去給左院長我們長團今天也都到了,請院長,我再講一句話請你把剛才你念的那些文字啊去發給大家一個第一個,我的要求,你兩邊有,兩邊覺得有兩邊顧啦我要看你書面文字,這個為準第二個,第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8591.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8618.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我再講一次,除非你把總預算送出來讓總統去行政院總統會轉給行政院,說有沒有自來難行行政院一定會提出自來難行,不用提出呼籲呼籲了以後,失敗以後,呼籲當然往後會修嘛再行一次線,只有這一條路可以走,其他都是危險行為我再這裡重申一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8619.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8637.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那最後我要敬告我陸地的好朋友張喜凱你說以後在這個菜園鄉在講廢話講很多的花錢我只告訴你你以後參加菜園鄉的機會非常非常傻你要記得這句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8638.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8655.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
好 謝謝柯總長 謝謝各位黨團幹部 謝謝行政院的官員我們明天就會送出中央政府總預算報告以下後續剛才所提出三點請行政部門來參考再一次感謝大家也謝謝各位所有工作的夥伴各位朝野各政黨所有工作夥伴 謝謝大家 我們散會 |