| IVOD_ID |
16485 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16485 |
| 日期 |
2025-02-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-02-11T10:12:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-02-11T11:00:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:47:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a6096b35ea96038e4206ac1aece817eb2949c566dc5288ab23bcba656780bfcb60ad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-02-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「公職人員選舉罷免法」第七十六條、第七十九條、第八十條及第八十三條條文覆議案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:12:15 - 11:00:00 |
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請秘書長報告出席人數報告全院委員會出席委員74人已足法定人數我們現在開會本次全院委員會是議程1上午院會通過附議案審查時程之決定辦理我們現在進行討論事項請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項第一案及第二案討論事項第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
437.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
454.08 |
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行政院行為本院三讀通過修正公職員選舉罷免法部分條文,其中第76條、第79條、第80條及第83條條文,今言亦確屬之案難行,依憲法增修條文第三條第二項第二款規定,一計本院附議案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
454.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
479.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
第二案 總統府秘書長橫維本院通過修正公職人員選舉報名法部分條文自行總統公佈案經行政院研議 以其中第76條 第79條 第80條及第83條條文去處之案南行以依憲法在修條文第三條第二項第二款規定 呈奉總統核可 以啟本院附議案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
480.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
506.454 |
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國務院會全院委員會一上午的院會決定我們以上兩岸全院委員會審查時不再邀請行政院長列席說明由國民黨團推派三位民進黨團推派三位台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位每位委員發言五分鐘我們現在請各黨團代表發言也請院會大家保持肅靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
507.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
510.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們首先請謝龍介委員發言張祺凱委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
534.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
562.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶膠帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
592.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
606.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席 各位同仁大家心儀共悉 拜一下蒙尼老總統請等一下 心儀共悉台灣兩千三百四十萬的鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
608.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
621.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
大家心裡驚喜我知道日子不好過世界動亂但是我們這個政府還在吃飯吃中餐兩兩兩口是吃飽幾天只想要吃土創地製丫頭說白癡還要因果關懷什麼叫因果關懷惰因為過 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
637.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
658.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
發動泡沫 九年就在頂堂一年前就在頂堂整個政府 不會有篩選欠缺的上天啊 過去三年的春天到今天 春一粗粗的 為什麼?你看看 各位台灣鄉親啊離開英國年 咱們全國的無損一丟七千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
665.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
671.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
一半年一條被請約到六千條來做行政議長離空一千年到尾還給我們兩條而已到跟蘇貞昌來做行政議長兩條兩請約做給他兩條七請約 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
684.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
707.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們去年跟通過兩條高清外的要跟三條的新代表整個政府都沒有做愛天救白 道天救地 要被救好白衫 白衫 再白衫行政議長 說白衫報道 說白衫官員 說白衫立法委員 說白衫 整棟都在說白衫有夠可憐啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
714.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
728.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
啊 孫叔就去黑咕 沒發動白面像這個柯總召 我在講話 還在給他拍照 沒煩惱就輸給你記載 哦孫叔就去黑咕 就像這種的孫爺 他的腳不夠硬的孫叔就去飛雲各位鄉親我們的總統 無頭到尾娶什麼這是他們的關係他們說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
742.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
760.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
選手如果要出國 沒寶座喔 說你都沒寶座各位啊 全台灣所有運動選手各單行聽者這就是白痴 因為這樣白痴古人 貼有數的文章 五十四億今年我們給台七十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
764.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
770.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
70萬就是我們國安委員席頭頂撐 選手席一般撐我們把頭頂撐來看著這樣以後如果說所有台灣體育運動選手的選擇補助都沒有我跟你們說 有人要吐槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
779.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
798.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
今年我們刪掉中午生日的七十三月比股年假十九月今年你們任何人都拿著寶座隆重來跟在野党的立法委員來跟我們抱我們就要把這個國法宣告給它釐出來這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
800.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
805.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這就是白痴 因為白痴一條我們台灣人說一塊我蓋一個白痴就很嚴重了這個政黨一塊我蓋三四隻白痴 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
814.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
829.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你最討厭的,我們給他這麼多錢,他說他沒辦法做工作,三條新代表說他沒辦法做工作,沒有三尊欠給我們,過去,我們說三夫愛請! |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
831.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
852.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
讓我出去一半 財富不能換今天你馬上撐著這個倒影台 農工的八湯塞 要換嗎今天如果沒有換 我跟你說 這間出去的北京倒北京要倒 過了我們台灣 我們這個美好的家庭 不能夠讓它過得太久了今年都算有剩幾百萬兩千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
857.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
868.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
過去八年 過鄉告捷這個結局還沒抓出來所以 國民黨的兄弟啊 比較多人來也心不夠啊他們就是要吃 吃不吃 吃鬆 整棟 過鄉告捷繼續貪 繼續吃 吃到吃鬆 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
877.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
880.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝謝榮介委的發言接下來請張祺凱委員發言吳思堯委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
917.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
935.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
請行政院不要變成大惡霸不要變成大亂霸民調非常清楚絕大部分的民眾反對這次的大罷免民進黨也知道今天行政院提的這個復議案絕對不可能通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
937.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
959.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
為什麼要提呢一個拖延時間第一個就是要發動大罷免可是大罷免對台灣真的好嗎騙地方對台灣真的好嗎請民進黨再深思齊凱今天先提醒大家請看兩個民調一個民進黨自打嘴巴的笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
962.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
984.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這次的選罷法修正案有兩個民調清清楚楚第一個你問立法院剛剛通過的選罷法修正案你贊成嗎高達六成三的民眾認為贊成而且認為要附身份證的正反面的影印本因為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
986.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1005.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
才能夠渡劫造假渡劫幽靈的造假有些往生者的名單被填在上面絕對多數民意是支持的特別是學歷越高年輕的選民越支持這次的修法包括有20歲到29歲7乘3是贊成的30到39歲7乘2另外這次民進黨要發動 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1014.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1042.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
大罷免另外一萬民調美麗島電子報清楚地顯示高達七成二的民眾反對這次的大罷免所以從民調看得出來絕對多數的民眾支持修法反對這次大罷免結果行政院違背了民意製造社會的對立另外還有一個民進黨自打嘴巴的大笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1044.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1067.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我拿的這一份是民進黨21位立法委員包括吳秉瑞、蔡議員、邱議員、吳佩穎一共有21位的民進黨立法委員在去年的第一會期提了一個選罷法的修正案他的理由是這樣說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1070.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1098.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他說最近幾百選罷法你在提這個罷免案的時候出現了大量死亡的連署這個人數就是往生者在連署上面出現了他怎麼講呢他說幾個案子裡面都出現上千噸的死亡者就是幽靈的這個連署而且理由裡面怎麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1100.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1128.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
隱含的假冒分數恐怕比死亡連署的數還是幾倍以上喔就是死亡的人被放在連署書上面的最近都有幾千人然後民進黨還講沒有查到的黑數啊幾倍以上所以他們做了一個定論說現行的連署的這個制度罷免的時候啊有嚴重的漏洞我要問民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1130.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1159.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你們認為有嚴重的漏洞嗎不用補破滑嗎不用補嗎結果21個民進黨立法委員現在自打嘴巴更嚴重的 我要提醒大家民進黨推動大罷免真的是誤判情勢現在你看兩黨現在都提了很多的連署對台灣不好的同時我們要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1160.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1187.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
包括吳斯亞委員吳佩玉委員在場兩位民進黨的原住民的委員你們都是變成危險的名單了你們在危害社會的同時違背民意的同時你們又可能被罷免為什麼不趕快踩煞車呢昨天賴清德總統召集了五院院長我看韓國瑜韓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1189.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1212.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
苦口婆心的建議趕快踩煞車台灣民眾黨也非常非常明確請不要再推動大罷免了今天透過這個案子很清楚立法院不會通過請民進黨第一個踩煞車第二個不要再提不宜案另外不要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1213.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1230.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
負議案是非常嚴肅的請行政院不要再亂提負議案了今天沒有過請行政院長負起你的政治責任謝謝張綺凱委員發言接下來請吳思瑤委員發言吳宗憲委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1238.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1262.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席各位同仁 誰在講白菜誰在看誰是惡霸 誰在惡霸 人民也看得一清二楚這屆立法院 服國立民的法案太少 禍國殃民的惡法卻比比皆是新年新會期 立法院還要持續作惡下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1264.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1278.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
复议案就是法案的庭看厅是重新审视的珍贵机会选报法的复议案就是一个民主的重考立法院要得高分还是要交白卷呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1279.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1302.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
宣佈法將罷免連署加嚴的惡修修法的程序毫不正義實質的內容更是違憲害民人民是國家的主人依據憲法擁有罷免不適任公職的權利閹割民權惡修法律就是真正的惡樸欺主 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
1304.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1326.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
惡母欺主的國民黨勢必會遭受民意的反撲自食惡果害怕罷免的國民黨立委們投票支持復議案這是你們最後一次挽回民心的機會這一次如果再不把握一旦被罷免了你們終將沒有下一次的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1329.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1357.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
選罷法修二程序毫不正義選罷法今天要進行復議案的連署加嚴版是院會淨附二讀的版本所以委員會沒有討論正因為淨附二讀需要在朝野協商來好好對話但是不論國民黨召集的黨團協商乃至於韓國瑜院長召集的朝野協商都只是過水的政治秀我要告訴黃國昌總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1358.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1383.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
賴清德總統召集的院紀協商不是過水的政治秀韓國瑜院長召集的朝野協商才是12月20號的表決民進黨的委員反對的意見再次被沒收而立法院再一次動用了舉手表決議事錄上成了空白立委二修不需要對民意負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1384.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1406.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
更變本加厲的是立法院居然可以因為內政委員會徐欣盈交委的一紙公文就把選罷法成為人質肉票扣在立法院一扣一押就是35天而在過年前的最後下班前一個小時內緊急壓線送到行政院咨請總統公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1411.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1429.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
審法案搞偷襲送法案也搞偷襲這是人民期待的立法院嗎實質的層面在行政院提請的復議案已經清楚的說明罷免連署加附身份證設下了史上最難也最嚴的連署門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1432.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1445.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
閹割民權 祈禮盛名更不要說各執法第五條規定最小必要性的原則在二修之後對人民的隱私權構成巨大的傷害人民將對罷免望之卻步 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1448.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1475.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我举个例子新法不可行不好用就看看你们国民党青年团发起的罢免律委的行动也赶着送件急着要试用旧法这就说明了你们自己修的法不好用不合用连自己的青年军都不想用另外大法官499号试字也已经清楚打脸过 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1476.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1501.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
涉及事項民意代表不能用修法的方式來自肥圖利國代的延任案已經被打臉了現在的選罷法修惡就形同是立委的自我圖利恐怕又會再被憲法法庭打臉一次人民有權選出公職就有權利來罷免在座的你我 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1502.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1518.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我吳思瑤也被國民黨發動的罷免來鎖定但是我選擇的方式如同民進黨13位已經被鎖定惡霸的立委一樣我們選擇的方式是勇敢接受人民的recheck |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1519.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1538.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
面對人民的recall我們是謙遜反省勇敢以對而不是傲慢的對抗不要為了一己之私傷害民權稍後的投票是記名投票容我提醒大家誰在持續作惡誰能撥亂反正 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1546.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1550.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言接下來我們請吳宗憲委員發言張宏祿委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1561.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1584.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
各位委員大家好 在此我還是要認同甘吳市長委員所說的是誰在惡霸其實人民都清楚 我覺得到底是誰在惡霸我想全國人民都非常的清楚那我們這次針對民進黨發起尤其是柯總召不停的呼喊要大家來大罷免的情況這個惡霸造成台灣一直的動盪不安 這不是全民所樂見 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1586.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1608.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
當然選舉罷免這是人民的權利但是權利的行使它必須要靠一個完整的制度制度要完善要依據遊戲規則去走這個是最重要而且在罷免的連署上面也是極為重要的一個關鍵我們看一下以前的連署經驗常常出現筆跡有落差尤其是以最近發生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1609.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1626.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
基隆市長的罷免案來看基隆市的選委會他在進行二階段的查證作業總共寄出1441件的查詢單有將近10%的連署書被認為有疑慮這就是為什麼我們這次希望在修法上面要 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1627.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1656.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
就罷免了連署附上身份證的主要原因這個也如同吳秉瑞委員之前要求說罷免了連署要附上身份證的發證日期一樣我們都希望連署能夠更加的嚴謹那有一個嚴謹的連署才會提高罷免的公正性以及公平性否則一旦出現代超入會員名冊或代簽這個除了會觸法之外也會重傷了台灣的民主那以下我做簡單的法律宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1658.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1676.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
如果在聯署書上面去偽簽他人的名字這會構成刑法217條的偽造數押罪那如果說簽署完畢的這一張聯署書你交給聯署單位這個會構成了偽造詩文書罪因為上面有別人的名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1677.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1693.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那如果說再把它提交給選委會這個會構成刑法216條跟210條的刑事偽造私文書罪以上這個都是法律的規定那這個這些違法行為呢它的追溯權時效依據我國刑法80條的規定是20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1695.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1723.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那也還是屬於非告訴乃論之罪也就是檢察官可以主動追查那在之後不管你今天連署罷免的是任何一個政黨國民黨或民進黨如果你今天去做一個違法的連署這個都會將來會構成犯罪我不希望說在罷免結束之後變成一個大告發時代互相告來告去告這個違法的偽造文書所以我在這邊跟各位做一個法律的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1724.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1740.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
今天如果要進行連署那請就自己的自主意識下去連署那不要去委天他人的姓名也不要去拿名冊去亂抄去交付那個公選會連署這個都是違法而且將來可能會讓你 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1741.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1769.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
背負前科也有刑責請各位一定要注意這個事情那此外如果有對價關係的話那會更嚴重這個除了會違反各執法41條非法利用個人資料罪還會構成選罷法的102條的賄賂對價所以這個請各位一定要特別注意那我們是一個法治國家如果你今天有一個不適當違法的連署這個是反民主而且是違法這個不管是哪一個政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1769.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1798.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
都不能這樣子做那另外呢本席還要再提一個東西就是有關中選會對那個花蓮戶政事務所進行的戶籍查核中選會是沒有權利去說花蓮戶政事務所有構成違法因為中選會並不是戶政機關的上級單位所以對於戶政機關執行戶口查查他這個職權是怎麼來的其實我們看戶政事務所他是依據戶籍法以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1798.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1825.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
相關的規定都沒有說禁止戶政人員跟民眾接觸所以中選會的要求我們實在是無法理解而且依據戶籍法71條的規定戶政事務所可以派員查對校正戶籍登記事項那戶籍巡迴查對實施規定第二條也規定了這些戶政人員他是可以去進行的戶籍的調查所以我想說中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1827.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1842.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個本來他應該盡責的去查核連署是否合法他不這麼做但是也不讓別人這麼做那法律也沒有禁止戶政機關怎麼樣去進行戶籍查核中選會卻下指導題要求他這不能做結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1843.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1863.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
行政院那個中選會本來應該是要讓連署是法性正確性要充足的卻帶頭要求不要這麼做我覺得這個是非常的奇怪最後我希望民主的制度要建立在法治的制度之上我希望大家都能夠合法的進行連署 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1869.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1874.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
謝謝吳宗憲委員發言接下來請張宏祿委員發言翁曉林委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1885.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1910.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
各位同仁剛剛聽了很多位委員在說其實我們今天要講的是選罷法的修正案但很多都把它變成了是這次罷免的一個談話內容我個人真的覺得我們是立法委員我們修的每一個法都是影響民眾的所有的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1911.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1937.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我自從當立法委員我長期都在內政委員會我們來回顧一下選罷法相關法案的修法在2016年的時候11月我們內政委員會經過大家嚴密的討論花了很長的時間我們第一次降低罷免的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1939.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1967.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
因為以前的選罷法神先來也難罷免那等於是沒收人民的罷免權這是在2016年11月第一次的修法那時候因為經過廣泛的討論各黨各派大家最後覺得這個方案可行那再來2019年的時候又再次討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1969.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1998.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
但這次討論因為大家的意見非常的不一致所以這一次是沒有結果的等於這一次的選罷法的修正沒有通過那一次是什麼也是說要附身份證因為要解決死亡連署等等的問題但因為各界的聲音不同所以那一次停下來暫緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2000.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2023.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那再來這一次的修法很遺憾在委員會裡面沒有經過任何的討論不同的聲音沒有被聽見結果近乎二讀然後今天造成了我們還要來這邊赴議這大家還記不記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2028.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2052.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
在委員會那一天我們連要開會都不能進去開會現在的議事錄上面所有民進黨的委員在那天是沒有開會的但我們都是在門口我要說的是在一個整個這麼重要的法案都沒有經過大家審密的討論的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2053.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2082.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
結果今天我們在這邊還要來吵富裕還要來吵什麼我必須要在這邊說一句身為立法委員我們所有的法案所有的修改應該都是要以人民的權利為標準不應該把各黨的算計放在裡面一部法案不是說今天不好明天可以再來修 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2083.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2112.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
一部法案我們要訂定的法案就要讓人民覺得這部法案可以用了幾十年一百年這才是好的法案這才是我們所有立法委員應該盡的職責而不是每部法案就說今天怎麼用明天可以再來修改我覺得這是不對的人民都在看我們在所有的內政委員會之前所有的法案我都跟所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2114.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2141.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
立委同仁說我們要朝這個方向去思考而且我們立了法案要能夠讓人民能夠檢驗但這次是很遺憾的完全沒有討論完全沒有做到這一點所以我在這邊我真的是很想跟大家說等一下的投票不管怎麼樣大家要想想看我們會留下所有的歷史紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2142.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2170.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們所有的法案是不是對人民可以用五十年可以用一百年而不是法案只是用兩年三年五年之後再來修改這一點所有的立法委員最基本的職責我們應該要做到所以各位同仁我覺得如何去投票如何去什麼我相信大家心裡有底 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2172.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2176.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
一部法案能不能用一百年那才是人民所期待的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2196.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2212.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
院长在座的各位委员大家好民进党政府着势惊飞今天行政院卓融台第三度就本院所通过的选罢法提出复议反对征修罢免案的提案人和联署人减负国民身份证影本的规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2213.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2228.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這項呼應案不僅無視於現行的總統副總統選罷法的規定還打臉前任行政院院長蘇貞昌現任的民進黨委員蘇巧慧王美惠吳思瑤張宏錄等多位委員之前的相同類型的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2231.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2245.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你不知道现在的总统副总统选办法规定选举和罢免案的联署人要附上国民身份证吗难道你不知道在2019年就是民国108年行政院中选会 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2246.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2261.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
還有蘇小慧 王美惠委員在2021年也就是民國110年都曾經提案修正公投法要求要檢附國民身份證的影本的相關驗證措施的規定當時行政院院長蘇貞昌說 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2262.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2280.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
看到在举办工作的过程当中有特定团体有心人士透过系统性的大量抄写名册进行提案联署有联署造假情形发生政府是绝对不允许这种深化民主的公民投票制度沦为伤害台湾民主的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2281.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
2292.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
蘇曉慧委員的提案理由大同小異同樣是要確立提案人和連署人的身份真實性避免各自盜用死人連署等等亂象情形發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
2294.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
2319.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
今天在座有十位的民進黨委員包含林一己賴會員陳寅審判會等等你們當時都有連署這樣的法案行政院今天提出復議案反對選罷法修法那麼認為減負國民身份證影本是會過度限制人民的參政權會侵害人民的隱私權會增加選務成本因此治安難行你們提出的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
2319.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
2347.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
不覺得強詞奪理矛盾嗎如果說檢附國民身份證影本是會侵害隱私權和參政權那麼現在我們民眾平常生活工作到銀行開戶辦手機門號哪一個不是需要這個附國民身份證甚至還要雙證件這就是難道這不是侵害隱私權嗎再說提供身份證影本可以確保領主人的身份的真實性幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
2348.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2361.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
学末单位可以有效的去查对相关的工作这不仅没有增加行政作业负担反而会减轻行政作业的负荷 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2362.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2382.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
行政院今天提出的复义理由坦白说就是为了反对而反对甚至不惜反对打脸前任同党的主张将苏贞昌苏巧慧王美惠等委员所提出的捍卫深化民主制度的修法理念踩在脚下用行动打脸当年他们的修法是没有意义的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2384.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2402.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
行政院明明知道这个法案不会至暗难行但是他却还提出复议莫非就是为了要协助民进党所发起的大罢免潮故意拖延法案的通过时间好去护航掩护那些恶霸团体来争取到不用付身份证的联署时间 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2403.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2427.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
更可恥的是中選會中選會在2019年就提出公投法的修法也是支持這個提案連署人必須要檢附國民身份證影本的但是現在我們的公職人員選罷法通過了相關的規定那麼他們竟然不支持還亂拗做成不當的法律解釋說只要在這個修法公布之前所提出來的罷免案在第二階段之後完全不需要檢附國民身份證的影本 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2428.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2442.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
这种解释根本就是完全违背现行的这个法律上的程序重新原则而且呢他们甚至还要禁止护证机关对有疑虑的提议联署人去进行实地的查核去跟仔细的身份查对 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2443.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2470.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我在这里要警告那些打算大抄特抄联署造假的罢免团体不要以为说伪造联署会没有事这次通过的这个选罢法98条之二已经增加了伪造联署的罚则那么未来只要有联署假冒的相关的人士都会处罚五年以下的有期徒刑拘役和病科一百万元以下的罚金那么同时也可能会违反各自法相关的规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2471.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2500.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
这些犯罪行为他的法律追溯期都是20年所以请大家不要以身试法挑战法律的界限最后本席要再次强调这次休选办法最重要的目的就是要防止过往的假联署死人联署超入名册等等这些弊端这是对于保障符合我们现在的这个投票制度是非常重要的一个决定希望大家都应该要支持这样的良善制度确保人 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2508.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2509.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
關於這個選罷法的問題,剛剛前面委員其實已經講了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2531.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2545.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
但我還是要再次強調它有三個核心的問題第一個是它的目的再來是它的手段以及這一次修法的品質我先來講一下第一這個修法的目的它是一個純粹的報復行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2548.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2575.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
國民黨跟民眾黨的修法邏輯充滿了政治算計跟報復的心理我們看過很多次了從之前因為自己質詢的品質差勁結果呢報復性的訂了一個東西叫做反質詢反質詢後來被憲法法庭說是違憲馬上報復性的再用憲法訴訟法想要廢掉憲法法庭然後現在面對人民發動罷免不適任立委的行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2576.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2581.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
你們的反應不是檢討是立刻提高罷免的門檻想要堵住民主的這條路 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2583.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2605.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
而更可怕的事情是這個法案最早的版本是在什麼時候甚至是在國會衝突以前就已經提出來了這說明了什麼這可能不是一個臨時起義你們對人民的反擊可能是你們心知肚明知道有問題提前設了這道防線要讓人民沒有辦法行使罷免權 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2607.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2635.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這種立法目的是不正當的是不民主的是濫權的自保是對人民權利的掠奪第二個是你們的手段是赤裸裸的暴力跟傲慢國會多數的確可以通過法律但是民主的精神也包含要尊重少數不是蠻橫的壓制跟霸凌近乎二讀直接不讓我們發言完全剝奪立法院應該有的審議程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2636.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2659.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
協商的時候我們提出這一些法律的漏洞以及目的上的問題國民黨跟民眾黨的反應是什麼是直接離席拒絕討論現在當家的立法院不就是國民黨跟民眾黨嗎為什麼要用離席的方式去阻止討論這樣連最基本的程序正義都不遵守的狀況之下怎麼要讓人民幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2660.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2684.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
然而第三個我要提到最可怕的事情是修法的品質如此的粗糙剛剛很多人提到死了連署跟冒名連署的事情請問死了連署要怎麼看?戶政機關直接對身份證字號就可以看啊難道要跟花蓮縣政府一樣去敲別人的門才有辦法看嗎?如果是冒名的話本來就有查詢單制度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2685.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2696.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以如果真的要再加高這個所謂查核的方式當時我們提出的最多最多也就是多填一個換證日期啊結果剛剛張啟凱委員還在這邊造謠說我們本來提的是跟這個原來一樣的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
2700.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
2718.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以這些都是完全跟立法目的完全沒有辦法合制的一個行為更不要講說今天行政院雖然沒有附議這個部分98條之二的偽造文書我們從協商的時候一直到二讀三讀的時候一直告訴你們文字有錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
2720.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
2746.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
偽造本身就包含未經同意這四個字根本就不用放上去結果你們連修改這四個字都不肯就可以知道這個修法的品質完全無法確保更不要講說剛剛翁小林委員才在這邊提到說因為有這個條文以後冒名有刑責請問這個偽造文書要怎麼競合請問為什麼多了一保案罰金現在你們有辦法馬上回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
2747.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
2767.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
就是因為這樣的立法品質我們才可以知道都是一個草率立法胡亂拼湊條文的行為現在一堆公民團體站出來批評你們的目的批評你們的手段的暴力批評你們立法品質的粗糙結果你們不是回應問題你們是轉移焦點開始污蔑說公民團體是側翼 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
2770.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
2787.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
說真正的公民團體明明關心的是民主的制度他不是關心政黨結果你們說要以霸制霸但罷免民進黨的立委甚至議員請問立法院內部的事項到底跟議員什麼事這完全就是一個赤裸的政治鬥爭毫無邏輯的報復行為不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
2790.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
2799.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以國民黨跟民眾黨的立委們你們不要以為這樣的行為能夠嚇阻人民你們越是如此反而越讓人民看清楚你們的真面目 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
2800.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
2824.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
過去一年已經給了國民黨跟民眾黨那麼多的機會希望你們踩煞車結果你們都無視你們原本應該告訴人民說你們做錯了你們原本應該告訴人民說我們不應該毀壞這個國家跟我們的民主制度你們原本應該告訴人民說你們要回到民主的正軌不要一錯再錯甚至引狼入室去定這些禍國殃民的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
2825.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
2829.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
歷史會記住這一刻會記住去年的每一刻我們不會讓你們毀壞這個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
2836.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
2862.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
謝謝沈博洋委員的發言報告全院委員會我們各黨團所推派的委員均已發言完畢行政院所提出的復議案已審查完畢現在我們做以下決議提報院會以記名投票表決向全院委員會報告依照本日上午院會決定全院委員會審查完畢之後同日改開院會進行復議案記名投票表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
2863.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
2883.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我們就定於本日上午11點30分改開院會請各位委員屆時出席院會進行附議案之記名表決投票本次會議進行到此為止現在全院委員會散會 |