| IVOD_ID |
16466 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16466 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
28 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-13T08:30:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-13T12:23:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:52:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc9b825f179b61be317e60f8021a25648d18d20170ff19eea6b244d9f3dc5123325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部率所屬相關單位列席就「號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨害司法公正罪之現行犯？」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
（一）行政院函請審議「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員吳沛憶等23人擬具「律師法第九條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:51 - 12:23:00 |
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1386.868 |
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請會務人員 媒體請到媒體席請會場人員 媒體請到媒體席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1442.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1447.73 |
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那個準備我們這個是不是要到媒體洗啊幾分鐘到幾分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1481.158 |
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1498.566 |
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待會我們會議開始待會我們會議開始與會的列席官員跟委員都可以完全充分的討論我們待會會議開始自然官員跟委員就會就相關的問題來進行討論 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1803.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1824.491 |
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報告委員會出席委員7人已足法定人數 請主席宣布開會好 現在開會進行報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第二會期司法及法治委員會第27次全體委員會議議事錄前日中華民國114年1月9日星期四上午9時11分至12時17分下午1時41分至4時58分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員羅文志強等12人 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1831.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1846.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
列席委员张伟红路等四人列席官员法务部部长郑明谦等人主席吴召集委员钟宪报告事项宣读上司会议事录决定确定讨论事项继续审查114年度中央政府总预算案关于法务部及所属主管收支部分等四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1847.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1857.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
決議一114年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第98項之第103項均照列第104項無列數第105項之第132項均照列第三款歸費收入第181項之第 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1866.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1873.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第81項至第85項均照列第86項無列數第87項至第107項均照列第7款財產第4款財產收入第109項至第145項均照列第7款其他收入第108項至第141項均照列第142項無列數第143項照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1887.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1910.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
税初部分第二款法务部主管第一项照列本项提案二十三案保留送运会处理通过决议二十三十二项第二项照列第三项照列本项通过决议三项第四项照列本项提案一案保留送运会处理通过决议五项第五项照列本项提案五案保留送运会处理通过决议十一项第六项照列本项通过决议三项第七项照列本项提案四案保留送运会处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1911.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1933.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第8項照列本項提案3案保留送院會處理通過決議6項第9項至第13項均照列第14項照列本項提案1案保留送院會處理第15項至第30項均照列第31項照列本項提案1案保留送院會處理第32項至第36項均照列第37項照列本項提案7案保留送院會處理通過決議5項 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1936.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1960.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
中华民国114年度中央政府总议宣言关于法务部及所属主管收支部分审查完均提报愿会因为讨论前需叫党团协商因为讨论时有无召集人中线出席说明二法务部矫正机关作业基金业务计划因依据业务收支转投资固定资产建设改良扩充及资金运用等项制审查结果随同调整业务收支业务总收入业务总支出本期短促均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1961.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1968.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
3.毒品防治基金用計劃因依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨通調整基金來源基金用途本期短處均照列結角公庫無列數通過決議二項以上二案審查完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1986.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2008.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
提報院會 院會討論前需就要黨團協商 院會討論時有無召集員眾獻出其說明四 財產法人 台灣更生保溫會一百十四年度預算書案業務計劃依依據業務收支轉投資固定資產投資及資金運用等項之成達 結果隨同調整業務收支 業務總收 業務總支出 本期餘處均照列結繳供戶進額及轉投資計劃均無劣數 固定資產投資照列 國庫增撥基金額無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2013.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2022.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
五財團法人福建更生保護費一百十四年度預算書案業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產投資及資金運用等項目審查結果隨同調整業務收支業務總收入業務總支出本期逾處均照列結繳公戶淨額及轉投資計劃均無列數固定資產投資照列國庫增波基金額無列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2036.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2051.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
6.財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會114年度預算書案業務經費因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產投資及資金運用等項目審查結果隨同調整業務收支業務總收入業務總支出本期預儲均照列結繳空戶金額及轉投資計劃均無列數固定資產投資照列國庫撐破基金額無列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2055.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2057.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 請問各位上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2085.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2108.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那沒有的話我們議事錄確定接著介紹道場委員及應邀列席官員先介紹在場委員首先介紹羅志強委員黃國昌委員接著介紹應邀列席人員介紹法務部鄭明謙部長歡迎您政務次長徐錫祥次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2109.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2125.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
司法院刑事廳李大任廳長 歡迎您司法院行政廳高玉順廳長以及今天列席學者專家代表國立陽明交通大學特聘教授林志傑教授 歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2128.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2142.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 其餘未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程分別排定報告事項邀請司法院法務部率所屬相關單位列席就 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2143.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2158.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨礙司法公正罪之現行犯嗎進行專題報告並備質詢及討論事項、並案審查、行政院罕見審議、律師法計九條、條文修正草案等三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2159.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2184.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
先說明稍後議程進行的報告及詢答方式那麼機關代表報告時請一併就專題及法案進行報告委員質詢時則依例採綜合詢答現在進行因為提案委員呢目前不在場所以我們待會如果有時間在律師法的提案說明再試情況那麼先進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2186.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2202.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那麼機關請機關代表報告那麼發言時間呢我們就參照因為今天有兩個題目就以五分鐘為度必要時得延長三分鐘那請司法部部長鄭明謙報告那請法務部部長鄭明謙報告請 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2208.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2228.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生早安今天奉邀列席貴委員會就號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨礙司法公正罪是現行犯代表本部列席報告並被質詢有關號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者是否為妨礙司法公正罪是現行犯議解 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2228.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2256.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因憲法第十四條規定人民有集會之自由此以憲法第十一條之規定言論講學、著作及出版之自由都是屬於表現自由的範疇為實施民主政治的重要的基本人權因為保障人民集會遊行自由維持社會秩序集會遊行應依集會遊行法之相關規定辦理與符合集會遊行法所辦理之集會遊行本部都予以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2258.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2278.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那再來就是集會遊行中是否有涉及相關形式責任能因事具體個案是號召之內容是否涉及恐嚇內容傷害他人犯罪違背法令或抗拒合法命令號召者有無強暴脅迫之之意圖是否已具重是否經命令解散而不解散是否已過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2278.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2301.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
恐嚇、妨害名譽、妨害公務、侮辱公務員等相關法律制構成要件或再試相關行為適合構成刑事訴訟法88條第二項、第三項所定制限刑判或檢視限刑判來做一個判斷以上報告敬請委員來指教另外今天還奉邀 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2302.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2314.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
列席貴委員會就行政院函請審查律師法第九條條文修正草案委員林立錦等二十七人你去律師法第九條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2315.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2333.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員吳佩奕等23人女計律師法第9條條修正草案提出報告那本部核准發給律師證書後,領有律師證書者於未加入律師公會時,堂期犯罪行為經法院判決一年以上有期徒刑確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2335.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2356.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因其非職業律師難由律師懲戒委員會來處理又該等沒有加入律師公會之人倘涉及違反執行律師業務有損及司法廉潔或律師職務獨立性情節重大等限刑法是沒有規定處理的一個方式那本部會確保律師是高素質並回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2359.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2375.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
社會期待對零有律師證書而未加入律師公會者如果犯罪行為經法院判決一年以上有其處刑確定或其行為涉及違反執行律師業務有損及司法連結或 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2377.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2402.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
律師職務獨立性且情節重大由本部會徵詢全國律師聯合會的意見之後會會址律師證書以維護律師綱紀及形象並確保司法威信那感謝委員林立景的27人擬拒的律師法第9條條文修正草案及委員吳佩奕等23人擬拒律師法第9條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2403.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2429.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
委員提案皆以行政院版本相同本部競表同意此次修法將能界定律師懲戒及本部廢止律師證書的一個範疇敬請各位委員予以支持以完備廢止律師證書制度使律師法更加完備就以上好謝謝好謝謝鄭部長接下來請司法院司法行政廳高玉順廳長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2437.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2452.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席 各位委員 各位先進有關委員會召開審查行政院函情審議律師法第九條條文修正草案委員李女警等27人女拒律師法第九條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2453.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2471.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
還有委員吳佩義等23人擬拒律師法第九條條文修正草案本院奉邀列席深感榮幸僅就本院意見簡要說明如下因為律師是在野法槽富有維護人權以及實現社會正義的使命 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2472.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2495.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那律師制度健全有關於這個司法良胡更與國家民主法制的維護是息息相關的因此這個行政院及各委員所提的草案是因應實務上的需要完善律師制度以提升司法給付的品質所以本院敬表尊重以上敬請各位委員先進指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2498.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2512.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 謝謝高庭長接下來由於提案委員尚未到場說明所以我們先請受邀列席本次會議的國立陽明交通大學特聘教授林志傑表達意見請林教授發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2518.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2536.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主席各位委員還有今天列席的各位長官各位媒體朋友大家早安大家好今天很榮幸受邀來針對關於聚眾來到這個個案然後去做這個司法對抗行為是不是可能構成妨害司法公正罪的現行犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2537.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2567.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
以及我國應該如何重新的建構妨害司法公正罪來做一個簡單的研究分享那麼各位手邊有看到這個應該是兩年前我在全國律師的雜誌上所刊載的一個簡單的說明其實事實上今天到場我的身份除了刑事法的研究者之外另外一個身份是2017年全國司法改革國事會議第五分組的成員那麼當時在全國司改國事會議的結論第五分組特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2567.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2592.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我国的防害司法公正罪章有所缺漏实则应该要予以修补那么这篇文章可以说是重新来回应2017年全国四改国事会议的内容那么如果各位手边有的话我想跟大家说明的是防害司法公正罪在英国跟美国都是屡见不显的那么在条文里面也有非常清楚的规定之前大院在去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2593.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2620.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
去年的二月到這個九月之間曾經針對立法院的擴權行為針對這個立法委員直宣行使法有一些規範那麼裡面後來被宣告違憲的關於藐視國會罪因為構成要件不夠明確這一點那我當時有曾經有這個分享一下我的想法我覺得如果要去處理這個藐視國會罪我們可能更應該要優先處理的是藐視法庭的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2621.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2637.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
因為就這個妨害司法公正罪裡面不管是在英國或美國都有這個藐視法庭的情形各位如果google也可以看得到那麼英國的這個法院才在前一陣子把這個在法庭外面聚眾抗議那麼屢勸不聽的這個15位的民眾那麼在衛報有刊登然後可處於這個藐視 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2643.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2660.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
法庭罪那最主要就是因為集會遊行固然是人民基本的權利也是言論自由跟表意自由的展現但是如果針對正在偵審中的個案去用這種聚眾的行為來施加以證人鑑定人或司法人員的心理壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2661.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2683.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那麼意圖來改變正在偵審中個案的結果那麼這個樣子其實事實上對於司法的公正性是有非常大的影響那麼尤其是證人跟鑑定人他並不是一般的司法人員那麼如果他在面臨這樣巨大的壓力之下那麼很有可能會因此就修改了證詞那會造成司法審判的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2685.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2712.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這也是為什麼世界各先進法治國家針對證人鑑定人或者是對司法人員的強暴脅迫言語嘲弄侮辱騷擾行為有所規範的原因那麼以上是一個導論那麼如果我們去深究妨害司法罪的本質大概可以分成幾種妨害司法的行為第一個妨害司法它一定會影響的是審判的公正性第二個它一定會影響的是人民對司法的信賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2713.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2729.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那麼尤其是在白領跟財經犯罪的這種狀況裡面由於社會地位跟實質的影響力它的妨害司法行為特別容易造成司法裡面的這個不當的一個干擾那麼如果我們來把它區分成不同的種類 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2731.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2753.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
各位可以看到我的文章裡面有特別提及我大概可以把妨害司法的行為分成以下幾種第一個是針對偵審所需的資訊所造成的妨礙比如說提供錯誤的資訊或者是虛偽的證言或者是偽造變造的證據那麼很多的規定在目前我們的刑法跟刑事訴訟程序裡面已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2755.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2773.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
但是不够完备第二个是针对司法人员以及其他诉讼关系人造成的妨碍那么最主要是因为司法的侦查跟审判是透过人来理解形成的所以你去骚扰在司法程序里面进行的人不管是证人鉴定人举发人 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2774.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2799.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
雙方當事人或者是調查官或者是這個廉政官這些行為都有可能造成司法結果的扭曲第三個是對司法程序造成的妨礙比如說棄保潛逃那麼我看到大院目前有一些委員已經提出針對妨害司法公正罪全面修正的立法建議個人覺得非常的贊同那麼不過目前我看到的只有針對證人跟鑑定人 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2801.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2823.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
似乎對司法從業人員以及法庭尊嚴的維護並沒有一個妥善的構成要件的規劃就這一點上也希望就法制的缺漏跟重建的必要性再請大院一併著參那麼最後要講的是我覺得妨害司法公正罪它應該是一個全面被建構的情形那麼目前雖然已經有比如說在集會遊行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2824.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2840.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
防害公务或者是恐吓等等的罪行但是总体上欠缺一个鸟看的高度所以期待大院的委员能够落实2017年全国司法改革博士会议的结论来全面建构我国的防害司法工程罪以上简报谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2842.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2855.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好 謝謝林特聘教授的發言那麼機關及列席代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容均列入公報記錄那提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2856.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2878.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
部分呢因為委員尚未到場那我們報告已經進行完畢現在開始詢答那詢答時間本會委員為6分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員為4分鐘均不再延長上午10時30分截止發言登記那跟委員會報告一下因為今天上有 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2879.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2891.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
內政跟司法聯席所以呢主席這邊會是我們聯席委員會的情況那麼來調節我們會議進行的方式那接下來請登記第一位黃委員國昌發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2906.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2915.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
是不是麻煩了有請我們法務部的部長司法院刑事廳的廳長以及行政廳的廳長高廳長刑事廳的廳長是李廳長請政部長李廳長判高廳長委員長三位好時間的關係不一一問候 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2930.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2946.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我必須要老實講啊司法法治委員會啊今天做號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨礙司法公正支線刑犯打一個大問號我有在立法院的席間啊我大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2948.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2963.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
就我自己在的期間我大概沒有看過這麼荒謬可笑這麼愚蠢的專案報告為什麼我說這個專案報告不僅荒謬可笑而且愚蠢司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2964.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2988.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
當天馬上就出書面報告啊直接下了結論啊下什麼結論啊我唸給大家看啊號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者除有違反集會遊行法等相關法律之情形外應受憲法集會自由權之保障司法院的報告一句話就講完了來請司法院刑事廳的廳長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2990.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3017.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你們在書面報告裡面說除有違反集會遊行法等相關法律的情況是違反集會遊行法哪一條如果他的集會的目的是違反第四條的部分那是要被禁止的那包括他的所以呢違反集會遊行法法律效果是什麼刑事處罰對不對命令解散對嘛你要把話講清楚嘛這個集遊法 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3019.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3048.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
有刑事處罰的規定有沒有違反公正公約沒有有沒有違反公正公約有沒有違反ICCPR我花了納稅人這麼多的錢找了這麼多國際審查專家來審查審查了幾次啊就已經告訴你違反公正公約的規定連司法院院長被提名人張文貞 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3049.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3078.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我在同意權行使的時候自己都承認啦早該修啦修到現在都沒有修2008年蔡英文在自由廣場做了政治承諾到現在已經成為台灣公民社會最大的笑話了我直接切入主題拒絕綠色威權還我司法正義定狗雞的對象是誰啊就是賴清德啊這個活動的主旨這麼的明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3080.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3103.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我直接承認啊 號召的人就是我啊號召的人就是我啊歡迎法務部啊 歡迎台北地檢署啊歡迎調查局啊 歡迎刑事警察局啊開始對我偵辦我喜耳恭聽啊 拭目以待我違反了什麼法律規定啊 太可笑了真的太可笑了 來請法務部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3106.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3119.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
今天排專案報告嘛你們說要個案認定嘛當然是要個案認定嘛來以法務部部長就這個集會遊行就這場活動的掌握目前違反了哪些刑事法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3122.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3148.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個是個案的部分吼那以本部的立場我們是不知道不干涉不介入吼那這有限不知道不干涉不介入嘛這個個案還是要由檢警檢警調查好來我歡迎檢警啊大規模開始進行刑事調查我等著啊我等著啊看我們中華民國台灣的法治啊還要鬧出什麼笑話我們繼續往下看啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3149.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3172.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們繼續往下看法務部部長知不知道法務部部長知不知道最高法院前面可不可以集會遊行抗議基本的法律問題ABC啦這個是不可以因為是不可以禁制區是禁制區嘛有沒有檢查官去最高法院前面抗議過有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3179.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3206.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
他是其會有審是吳俊隆他是個人的一個行為對嘛 個人的行為嘛當初他是澎湖地檢署的檢察長嘛現在已經高升為我們司法官學院的院長嘛2012年6月的時候這位檢察官就在最高法院抗議啊就在最高法院抗議啊但是我沒有說最高法院抗議的行為是錯的啊因為我們劉靜怡教授啊2016年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3208.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3222.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
在法學教室就寫啦那法學教室是寫給什麼寫給大學生看的啊基本的法律常識要有啊來看一下法務部長知不知道這個建築物是什麼地方看得出來嗎有沒有去過這個我沒有去過美國聯邦最高法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3235.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3247.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
美國聯邦最高法院一群人在前面抗議no justice no peace為了什麼案子2022年的時候墮胎婦女墮胎權劃時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3250.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3273.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
最高法院的判決1973年Roy vs Wade被推翻了嘛一群人啊跑去聯邦最高法院抗議那個時候啊我從來沒有聽過啊美國有什麼法律學者出來高喊啊這妨礙司法公正啊這違反集會遊行法啊全部都要嚴查、策辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3277.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3292.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
美國不會鬧出這樣的笑話嘛現在在台灣的司法法制委員會鬧出這樣的笑話來我們再繼續往下看啊2008年蘇志芬涉案的時候民進黨立委號召啊包圍地檢署啊這有沒有違法來請教部長立委拜頭包圍地檢署啊這有沒有違法來請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3308.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3333.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個我不清楚這個你不清楚嘛但你知不知道這個案子後來有沒有起訴任何人有嗎有起訴任何人嗎帶頭包圍的柯建民現在是民進黨立院黨團的總召再往下看2008年檢方不辦成於零就包圍地檢署這是王定宇講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3334.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3362.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這有沒有恐嚇罪來 請教一下部長這有沒有妨礙司法公正 這有沒有恐嚇王定宇後來被起訴嗎怎麼部長不敢回答喔奇怪 我那時候怎麼沒有看到一些法學學者出來講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3364.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3373.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
柯建民啊王定宇啊妨礙司法公正啊恐嚇啊全部都要徹查徹辦啊有嗎有辦嗎來請教部長有辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3384.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3411.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
有嗎回答不出來喔不敢講喔這不是不敢講這個案件是2008年的事情對嘛所以我們從客觀的歷史來回顧嘛從客觀的歷史來回顧有沒有有辦沒有辦這個有客觀的答案啊我不需要你主觀的臆測啊就沒有嘛來我們再往下看當初立委帶隊踹破法務部部長大門啊這個案子有辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3415.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3441.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個北檢有分案稱敗然後呢分案稱敗然後呢這件事撤回告訴撤回告訴喔誰撤回告訴法務部部長撤回告訴喔是嗎在你任內這個是羅部長撤回告訴就部長撤回告訴嘛在你任內有沒有立委率眾去踹破你的大門到今天為止有發生嗎這個沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3444.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3458.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
當然沒有嘛我們來看看啦什麼叫做真正的刑事犯罪行為我前面講的那些例子什麼叫真正的刑事犯罪行為來看一下職員押檢毀損公務檢警開始偵辦了嗎職員押檢毀損公務這現行犯啦警察全部都看到啦這開始偵辦了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3473.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3485.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
有開始偵辦嗎這才是犯罪行為啊我從第一張PPT一直到這一張才出現真正的刑事犯罪行為啊辦了沒有來請教部長辦了沒有這才是現行犯啊毀損罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3498.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3503.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我國的刑法典不是白紙黑字寫得很清楚嗎開始辦了沒有部長請回答這個案件我不清楚這個案件你不清楚嗎好回去回去告訴啊有負責追訴犯罪啊職權的檢警啊奇怪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3523.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3541.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
碰到這種事情真正的現行犯就軟趴趴我提醒喔告訴乃論的告訴啊是起訴的要件不是偵辦的要件所有大三學過刑事訴訟法的人通通都知道告訴乃論的告訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3542.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3557.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
基本上是起訴的要件不是偵辦的要件我這樣講有刑事訴訟法基本素養的學生應該通通都可以聽得懂但大家覺得很奇怪啊為什麼沒開始偵辦屈從於壓力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3562.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3575.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
來我們來看看啦 什麼是正港的妨礙司法公正罪啊為逃稅案件關說司法的邱泰山藍部長你認為這種不法關說應不應該用妨礙司法公正罪就辦這才是妨礙司法公正啊應不應該用妨礙司法公正就辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3590.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3593.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
應不應該不敢回答應不應該用妨礙司法公正就辦不敢回答司法公正罪目前還在立法中嗎對嘛你們法務部最可笑的是什麼今天林志傑教授都來講了2017年斯坦國事會議就做決議了結果你們法務部行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3621.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3642.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
連個像樣的版本都提不出來啊來請高玉順廳長高廳長我相信不法官說你感同身受啊在你任內啊有沒有被不法官說過報告委員這個個案其實我之前在偵查程序中我已經做過說明了現在作為司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3649.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3667.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
的官員啊你認不認為台灣應該要訂不法關說罪呃 身為這個司法院的幕僚其實我們會尊重大院以及主管權責司法院沒有態度喔所以現在廳長很小就對了沒有辦法表達意見勇敢一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3668.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3696.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
就像你當初啊勇於揭發最高法院的法官啊竟然敢關說司法還有另外一個很有名的案子啊柯建民幫自己的刑事案件關說司法為什麼沒有辦沒有明文規定嘛這才是現在最大的問題嘛就是這種關說司法不肖的政治人物 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3697.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3720.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
到現在還在立法院裡面橫行我們的法務部行政院連不法關說罪的版本都不敢提出來跟委員報告我們那個法務部的2019年就提了嘛這個我知道嘛上次討論就講了嘛所以我們本部是有立場的我們是有提出這個法案的所以呢本部有立場那你要敢講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3721.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3745.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
在你們本部的立場當中 你們本部所提出來的條文柯建民這個是不是有構成不法關說的行為那這部分的話 基本的函設嘛 憲刑法沒有嘛但是你的版本有啊 有還構不構成法務部版本的不法關說罪那這部分現在已經在審查在哪裡審查 退嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3749.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3763.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
法務部部長 要有一些基本的擔當啊要有一些基本的擔當啊不要連這種基本的事情都不敢講 唯唯諾諾的這個法務部部長讓人失望啊好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3780.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3802.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
好,繼續邀請我們宗嘉賓召委質詢主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生那麼有請政部長以及司法院的理聽長好,請政部長、理聽長 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3805.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3832.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那如果有就教於林教授的部分那也方便的話林教授願意回答也請林教授好那麼首先呢今天我們要討論的妨礙司法公正的要件其實要語明確剛剛幾位委員的有委員的說明在我們委員會之前對於妨礙司法公正內容也經過討論了但是要件如何呢我們希望能夠進一步釐清那另外呢再參與我們享有國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3833.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3842.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
民主的集會遊行的權利也行使言論自由但是如果有境外敵對勢力的國內代理人也參與其中要如何處理我們請看 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3844.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3869.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
來 首先請教部長這是法務部的書面報告您說對於今天的專報號召的部分號召者剛剛已經自我承認了那麼號召的內容是否涉及恐嚇內容三或他人犯罪違背法令或抗拒合法命令號召者有強迫脅迫的強暴脅迫的意圖是不是你們認為要是號召者本身有這些具體的要件達成才能夠構成 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3870.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3893.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個是我們本部的報告是這樣子所以未來享有民主的集會遊行自由的權利的同時那麼號召者或聚眾者本身他的延遲的內容和他的行為就要接受這些要件的檢視請教廳長 那麼司法院的書面報告說若警器號召民眾上街對抗司法審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3895.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3918.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
為進而對特定的司法人員等具體對象為犯罪或關說行為你們認為如果沒有後面的就不算了 是不是這樣是所以要看有沒有對於司法人員等具體的對象進行犯罪或關說等行為好 那麼剛好因為林特聘教授在場我剛剛拜讀了您的之前寫的文章在第十一頁 第十一頁的第二欄 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3919.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3943.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
第二列那在上面的您說根據美國聯邦法治呢他說行為與法庭的空間距離遠近其對司法程序所造成的衝擊程度將藐視法庭分成直接跟間接就這個美國的立法例來講你認為這裡面有包含了在司法審判空間的法庭外的這些經過合法申請的集會遊行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3945.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3971.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這邊要跟委員報告最主要是因為法庭剛剛那個黃委員有以這個美國的墮胎權的這個最高法院的爭議來表示說其實在法庭外也是可以進行集會遊行那我覺得這個講法有一點誤導視聽因為最高法院他其實涉及政策的形成所以其實這些抗議的民眾第一個他是有一個空間的距離他並不是緊貼於聯邦最高法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3972.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3996.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第二個他集會遊行的地點還有他的時間都是經過嚴格的管制所以並不是說個案正在做裁決如果說現在本案的這個抗告與否正在做是不是要做羈押的決定或者現在內部個案的審理正在進行這個時候當然你在法庭外的遊行會對內部的司法從業人員造成莫大的心理壓力尤其是在對內部作證的證人所以這個是絕對是妨害司法公正的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4000.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4018.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那剛剛他提到的這個案件跟我們目前粉絲的這個公聽會提到的這個案件兩個是完全不一樣的事情所以我覺得這個有一點移花接木了有點可惜所以說如果合法申請的機會有請並不在法院或相關司法機構的管制範圍尤其是訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4019.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4042.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
也就是說如果你今天出來集會遊行那比如說如果這個民眾黨或國民黨或者是民進黨來號召群眾上街那麼他的目的是制定防害司法公正罪依林教授的意見那分成三階段來執行這個絕對不會有干擾司法的問題但如果今天遊行的訴求是正在審理羈押的某一位被告或犯罪嫌疑人 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4043.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4049.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他的訴求是立刻釋放否則的話要放火燒毀地監署那這當然會有其他刑事犯罪的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4073.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4095.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那時候我所知道的是在做積壓庭的裁定好 那麼請問 院檢辦案有沒有因此而感受到壓力司法公正有沒有受到影響 請問廳長廳長您覺得呢 這樣會不會有壓力如果從結果來看是沒有受到影響從結果來看是沒有受到影響的很好 從結果來看是沒有受到影響我們知道 昨天呢 高院也就做成了一個裁定了好 那麼再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4097.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4110.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
就在前天民眾黨 自由廣場 電郭記 都要抗議司法不公請問就這個訴求的內容是要求是因為妨礙司法公正罪嗎請問林教授您從一個民眾的認知這個所謂的司法不公是認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4112.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4129.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
因為他們要求要制定妨礙司法公證罪還是對個案的結果有不同意見對所以這個就是集會遊行首先他的申請跟他的內容比如說他申請的訴求可能是挺司法正義希望能夠這個建立人民對司法的信賴那集會遊行固然是合法這個沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4130.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4151.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
但是你今天負責集會遊行的人還有你的單位在整個集會遊行的過程中是不是有脫序或者是其他現行犯個案不當的言論那這個部分當然不在原來申請的範圍內這個可能會有其他刑事犯罪的可能我相信昨天大部分參加的群眾都是很和平的雖然情緒比較高漲但我們看一下下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4151.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4172.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但是我們看到有一個統促黨成員參與集會要維護一中框架甚至裡面的標語說抗議司法破壞要釋放高安國請問部長 曾部長誰是高安國下一張高安國是一位退休 退役的一個將領是 那他是參加哪個政黨這個參加統促黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4176.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4189.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好那麼我們看一看那往下看那麼高安國呢他目前呢他所說的呢目前退降退中共發展組織高檢署偵辦羈押中是嗎有這樣的情況嗎有沒有這樣的情況這是報仔啊這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4198.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4219.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
是否有偵辦那個高興的一個退價這部分現在沒辦法證實沒辦法證實好那我們來看一下那如果說他在偵辦羈押當中那麼他們的成員去要求釋放高安國那應該是羈押中吧他才會要求釋放這樣的情況是不是有涉及對個案對於司法機關進行施壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4221.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4242.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個是在我們的一個草案這是對一個有一個施壓的行為施壓的行為我們這個是有妨害司法公正的一個問題好那我們再來看除了他之外統促黨已經被認為危害民主憲政內政務擬提政黨解散目前看到了統促黨涉收中共七千四百萬借選國安法他違反了 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4243.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4257.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
國安委員法公共五案 反勝討法共一案 還有違反兩案條例 組織犯罪等條例有134人請問法務部長 如果內政部有這樣的一個提出是不是間接在我們法務部檢警調人員的調查基礎之上 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4258.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4280.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
如果涉及到違法的當然我們檢調就會收證好 那麼現在收證的情況我們請看一下下一張那麼就在 下一張就是我們統促黨的這個統促黨的榮譽主席林鄭捷在前天他說如果檢察官到最後交代不了太可惡我們大家就到地檢署放一把火把地檢署燒掉請問這樣的發言內容有涉及恐嚇及三獲他人犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4281.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4310.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這部分我想涉及犯罪 我要檢調就會收證但是我們不希望就是說 機會有請有脫序的一個行為就是有如果說聚眾是強暴脅迫啦那這部分 或者是煽放貪人 刑法第153條煽放貪人犯罪很好 你都念出來了主張火燒地檢署有涉及刑法或反滲透法刑法第151條 刑法第153條 反滲透法第6條我們要如何保護言論自由 同時要兼顧國安有沒有修法的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4311.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4331.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這些條文內容我們看對照反滲透法還有刑法151 刑法153這些內容因為反滲透法第6條說刑法149至153的集會或集會遊行第31條者要加重其刑所以表示縱使參加合法的集會遊行若有違反了反滲透法第6條所規定的四涉刑法的這些相關條款還是構成犯罪 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4334.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4360.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這份是構成犯罪好那最後呢我的訴求就很簡單我們希望呢依法偵辦依法審查審判維持司法公正勿受影響也希望你們嚴查國安案件防止中共代理人滲透可以做到嗎這份我們全力好謝謝部長謝謝廳長也謝謝教授好謝謝鍾昭偉的群打好謝謝林教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4369.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4392.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好 接下來我們有請羅委員志強發言上台發言之前 我先程序發言我先要跟我們主席說第一個 我覺得我們主席你不騙人是會死嗎不騙人皮很癢嗎不騙人就會很痛嗎沒關係 程序發言講完你再回答嘛 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4394.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4420.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
今天本來是吳宗憲召委要來主持會議的你是怎麼去跟他喬的你千拜託萬拜託說今天我們要來排睡神法搞了半天你要搞什麼中小刀嗎然後搞了半天 求了半天今天排一個什麼奇怪的題目啊當然你的人很奇怪沒有關係啊你一定要排奇怪的題目這第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4421.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4446.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第二個我要跟各位說啊雖然你是專委啦 你是主席啦 你要邀請誰 看你高興啦宗嘉斌你演都不演演都不演啦今天是找法務部跟司法院來問問看111定格機有沒有妨害司法公正是不是現刑犯關林志杰什麼事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4447.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4461.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
沒有關係啦 你真的要找一個綠色的代表來幫你助權你自己講不出話來 口才差 沒自信你知道官員不敢護航你 你找一個綠油油來護航你你這麼沒自信你再找一個 請吳宗憲早點幫你排另外一個中立的學者啊演都不演荒腔走板的今天一個專報 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4476.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4499.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
剛剛你的所謂的中嘉賓代表坐在底下他發言我直接出去啊你聽都不想聽有什麼資格有什麼中立性有什麼公正性坐在這個地方有什麼代表性坐在這個地方你今天如果請鍾憲章偉也爬一個中立學者坐在那一邊我就沒意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4500.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4517.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
你要跟我講什麼不是宮廷會對不對不是宮廷會對啦專報不是宮廷會欸我講完主席不要插嘴你愛怎麼回答怎麼回答我的問題就是在我剛才的的那個程序發言內容裡面問完了嗎我沒問完我沒問完抱歉我要繼續問這才是今天我覺得荒謬的事情啊你當個召委你的屬詞的不順利連演都不演 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4530.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4556.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
過去斑斑可考斑斑可考啊我直接跟趙偉說啦排什麼民眾上街集會是妨礙司法公正現行犯我幾個更棒的題目建議你啦中嘉賓持油壓檢毀損公務是不是檢警不敢辦的現行犯12月20號到現在23天了我待會就問部長我先直接告訴你 謝題 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4558.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4575.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那你剛剛排個專報柯建民關說司法是不是妨礙司法公正罪的行刑辦抱歉我程序發言沒結束選你的連程序發言我都選你的我連程序發言都選你的沒關係你要不要請你們民進黨立委提提所謂停止討論動議我選你的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4578.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4595.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我還沒程序發言結束你不要打亂我你們的柯建民盤古開篇可以講一小時我告訴你我不會講到一小時我沒他本事後面有其他委員沒有關係我告訴你那你不去那你要調順序嗎我跟你講我跟你講不用我待會我待會一樣發言質詢我待會是對官員我今天對你我對你 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4598.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4611.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你不要來跟我講我程序發言來限制我告訴你很簡單你們的柯建銘一講一小時你有本事下次抗議他 你抗議了他之後你要約束我 我讓你約束 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4612.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4617.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我今天跟你講,我也跟你不要客氣,有什麼客氣的,你宗家兵有什麼客氣的一個所謂的這麼珍貴的司法法治委員會排案你排這個什麼狗屁島造題目啊扯爆了扯爆了我今天來這裡就是要看你怎麼扯,怎麼糗,怎麼自己打臉自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4637.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4654.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以你不要打斷我 你越打斷我越假你不要打斷我 你不要打斷我程序發言 提問是我的權利你要跟我講說我發言太久 沒有關係你先去約束柯建民每次講話 20分鐘 30分鐘 1小時用這種所謂冗長發言 我學他我學他 我學他所以我還是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4665.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4681.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
今天的專報的題目我真的給我們的我們真的是很愛自己打臉自己的宗家兵一個建議今天專報的題目就是宗家兵持油壓減毀損公務是不是現行犯而且是檢警不敢辦的現行犯12月20號到現在已經23天了23天了辦一下吧現行犯耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4693.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4721.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
他不是現刑犯?誰是現刑犯?鐵針針的現刑犯?辦不辦?辦不辦?第二個,今天專報的題目我覺得中間那邊我剛唯一肯定你就是你也是用心良苦你今天專報的題目本來我知道你心裡想要定的是柯建民關說司法是不是妨礙司法公正的現刑犯我知道你想定這個題目因為你不提這個題目我還沒有機會再多講一下柯建民 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4723.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4743.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
柯建民就是中華民國我們台灣最有名的關說司法者今天妨害司法公正罪的立法就是因為有柯建民這種人在我們才今天積極竊竊不讓權貴可以繼續的關說司法所以我知道宗家兵召委啊用心良苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4750.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4770.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
他不爽柯建民非常久了我知道所以拿這個狗屁的題目來提醒大家不要忘了關說司法王柯建民你了不起啦然後我覺得你可能心裡還想再定第二個子題是邱泰山關說司法是不是妨害司法公正的現行犯我知道你也想定這個題目啊因為你可能也對跟邱泰山有什麼恩怨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4779.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4804.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
再來呢 你可能是想要說 邱毅英攪拆法務大門是不是破壞公務的現行犯你民進黨這種比比皆是誇張離譜至極 妨害司法公正的所謂的慶祝難輸你鍾佳冰今天有臉拿妨害司法公正這個現行犯當專案報告 當專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4807.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4836.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我佩服你的臉皮 更佩服你的勇氣無比佩服你還是同樣的那句話我還是要回頭講沒見過這麼不中立 不公正的主席啊上來發言了好 那麼剛剛的會議詢問呢 說明幾點第一我要說明啊我要說明啊 第一專報沒有定顧忌這些字樣第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4837.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4847.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
上週在排定本週一議程時原定是有律師法跟稅審法那麼後來稅審法司法院有做了一些表達所以我們就沒有再放進稅審法 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4849.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4875.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
第三剛剛這個說到本席之前去年的行為說明現場狀況是在群仙樓跟康園之間有救護車要通行進來進不來第四那麼委員發言的時候因為用到皮再養這個有涉及到可能不太好因為對人身安全有在威脅那最後呢剛剛所提的這內容發言的內容剛剛黃委員在質詢的時候都講過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4879.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4901.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
好 那麼現在是不是謝委員要做程序發言 請那請尊重一下 因為羅委員待會差到發言時間阿我就現行犯阿 我皮在癢 抓我阿皮在癢也可以變成你皮在癢的藉口莫名其妙 直接叫現行犯抓我阿 好不好趕快啦 主席 你最大 你權力最大我們不建議對人身威脅 來 請謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4906.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4918.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
主席我在這裡說明一下,我尊重你的這款,你為什麼要報告我都尊重,所以你請林教授來 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4920.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4945.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我也是在這聽嘛 聽說他講什麼嘛啊沒問的 我在這投稿他要走 要來沒地方去 要去沒休息我就坐車一走不是啦 我是覺得 不關什麼他的事我尊重你所有的處理嘛啊他要走你 啊沒有跟我們說他啊沒有我認為不妥 我覺得這樣有在庭的五位委員在這 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4947.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4953.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
他都不跟我們合作,我看他剛才把部長跟阿伯添一個頭,處理,把媒體添一個頭就走了,不好你請他來我都尊重,他報告我也看,也聽,你也問他,要來,部長在,要去沒休息,就去了,我是感覺這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4969.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4979.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你自己說一下,你如果說食糧界在那裡做心想理,看你講得不錯,你要照顧不來給我們拍個照嗎?對不對?這樣我們會很失望的感謝蔣委員,這個主流迎接你參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4990.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5009.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那個主席做得不太好,抱歉,來我這邊 趙董我補充一下,那個剛剛林志傑那個教授他要離開的時候,有去主席台講一下,他說他還有其他的事情,是不是可以先給他理解,我會報告一下,抱歉,我沒講,因為後來我們羅志祥有空走出來就開始講,抱歉,那我的事情啦,抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5015.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5020.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
首先我先謝謝鍾昭偉在我眼睛開刀的時候跟我對調昭偉的原本排定的順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5030.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5050.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以在上週因為中召委是有跟我講說因為本來今天是我擔任召委我來排案但中召委跟我說是要排稅審法那因為稅審法是中召委很支持的一個法案那我也很支持中召委去處理這個稅審法所以要換這個議程我就覺得說要換的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5053.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5073.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
如果你是要處理稅審法 因為這跟人民有重大的關聯性嘛因為稅審法它的主軸是保障人民 不是找人民麻煩所以那時候我才會說好 那我就同意交換 當然這個他也有去跟富坤崎總召談過那富坤崎總召那邊也覺得可以 那所以我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5076.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5094.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們13號就跟20號對調其實這個的前提是我們是支持睡神法的勝利但是我們一開始看到的也是這個議程也是睡神法但後來怎麼突然變成是這個這看起來就是滿滿護寒味道的這個議題出來那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5097.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5110.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我覺得啦就是說待會我執行我可能也還會再提一些東西但是我現在程序發言的部分我想我想在這邊提醒大家一個點在109年11月16號的時候那時候內政委員會也曾經開過一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5112.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5133.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
名字叫做行政院運用國家資源製作文書文宣攻擊在野黨嚴重違反行政中立的專題報告那在那個專題報告裡面包括我們委員會的審發會委員以及像現在的法務部次長黃士傑次長他都批評說怎麼可以有召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5134.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5155.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
利用立法院的委員會來召開這種違反議事中立的這種會議那這個在當時的這個在立法院的紀錄裡面都看得到他所有發文的全貌那我也有把這些東西全部找出來看那法務委員當時也在說你這個都定我罪我為什麼還要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5156.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5185.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
然後那個黃士傑次長他也講了啊說這個根本沒有考慮的空間啊因為你這個今天的議題就是不中立所以如果說我知道這個中召委今天要排這個議程的話那我絕對是不會同意交換那因為我是很謝謝他在我身邊的時候有幫我幫我就是那個有替換這個順序但是我還是不認同今天的這個議程的這個名稱我覺得這是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5187.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5211.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
尤其是中超委當年也參加過野百合學運也算是學運出身的人更應該了解保障人民言論自由以及集會結社的憲法上權力的重要性所以我在這邊我還是說我的結論就是其實我不支持說把議程突然間變更成今天這個顯然就是滿滿的就是要袒護執政黨的這個議程這個我是反對的 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5217.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5233.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
好 謝謝吳釗緯的意見跟體諒那麼也跟委員會報告說明那因為今天有兩個委員會包括樓下是司法法治和內政聯席所以我們時間上會稍微節制那因為委員要跑場所以也謝謝謝委員跟陳委員的對調那待會發言就請把握時間現在請羅志強委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5248.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5273.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
有請政部長 理聽長 高聽長政部長 理聽長 高聽長司法公正就跟空氣一樣一旦抽掉了整個國家就會窒息我先跟我們的部長還有兩位聽長說我剛剛為什麼這麼生氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5278.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5301.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我覺得今天專報的題目是在玷污妨害司法公正罪這個嚴肅的立法我自己是有很強的感觸為什麼部長你知道為什麼嗎因為我是感同身受的當事人在12年前2013年 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5308.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5337.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
台灣發生了一件駭人聽聞也是司法的奇耻大辱的事件就是柯建民民進黨立法院總召他透過當時的立法院長王金平打電話施壓法務部長要求今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5339.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5364.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
承辦柯建民全民電通弊案的檢察官對他的案子不上訴這個關說司法是一個成功的關說司法因為立法院長照做了法務部長照做了檢察官也聽命不上訴了柯建民成功脫罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5367.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5393.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
但他可恥的不只是今天一個弊案的成功脫罪更可恥的是關說司法這種權貴密室關說司法是無罪的當時我擔任總統府副秘書長我為了這件事我跳出來痛批 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5396.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5422.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
關說司法無罪的荒謬現象導致台灣面臨有權判生無權判死我辭掉總統府副秘書長宣誓一輩子要為制定關說司法罪來奮鬥我辭掉總統府副秘書長我曾經有五年失業靠寫作為生 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5426.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5451.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這條路走了12年在今天法務部今天你跟我講你有版本但行政院提不出版本消極拖延的情況之下這條路走了12年終於在上個禮拜一出審通過我真的是感動的不得了可是我今天竟然看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5454.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5478.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們的召委為了羞辱為了政治玷污一場人民的集會活動竟然做出這麼荒腔走板的專案報告題目什麼叫做號召民眾上街對抗司法審判是妨害司法公正罪的現行犯你要護航 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5483.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5509.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
也不要玷汙別人12年奮鬥的努力你要護航也不要玷汙今天妨害司法公正罪的制定的神聖性今天這個法律定下去將來這些綠色權貴甚至不只綠色權貴所有顏色的權貴你一旦關說司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5512.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5539.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
就要神之以法這是我今天為什麼生氣憤怒的原因我看到這個報告的題目我從昨天氣到現在我從昨天氣到現在什麼樣的主持人 主席可以用這種輕蔑的方式來去排這個五路 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5542.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5564.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
妨礙司法公正罪神聖性的一個專報接下來問我們的部長我想請教一下現行犯我想問請問我吳宗憲委員謝榮介委員翁曉琳委員還有黃國昌委員我們禮拜天 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5572.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5601.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
都有去參加中正紀念堂的集會活動請問我們是妨礙司法公正罪的現行犯嗎部長各位委員報告凡是參與合法申請集會遊行 是不是當然我們尊重這是一個表意是不是第三次問你這個沒有涉及到其他的犯罪當然就沒有現行犯的問題所以不是嘛 謝謝你還我們清白感謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5602.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5627.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
來 我們的李廳長我 吳委員 謝委員 黃委員 翁委員都是司法法治委員會的委員我們星期天參加群眾的街頭活動我們是妨害司法公正罪的現行犯嗎剛剛部長已經講過應該不是不是嗎你報告也寫了來 高廳長我們是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5631.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5641.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
報告委員因為這個不是我們私刑廳的全責範圍內那不過因為前面的已經有部長跟理聽長做發言了非常謝謝妳喔答案依然是不是我一謝謝三位打臉中嘉賓二謝謝三位告訴中嘉賓浪費時間排這個專報想羞辱誰啊想羞辱這中嘉賓你自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5658.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5684.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
想羞辱誰啊 想羞辱就是柯建民民眾自發性我們大家集會在這個地方 避免司法更公正也跟今天的執政的賴清德總統表達我們的抗議啊 妨害司法公正罪啊虧你想得出這樣的報告的題目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5686.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5705.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那我現在問下一個啊當場就一個現行犯啊剛剛我看部長你也沒有正面回答12月20日就在我們立法院有一個立法委員拿油壓檢破壞公務請問是不是現行犯這部分那個台北地檢署有分他案在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5716.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5745.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
分案在處理啊分案在處理啊對分案在在在處理23天啊人約談了沒啊你又說個案你不知道不干涉不介入不知道幫你回答約談了沒啊這部分我我不干涉不介入不知道不知道這部分我沒辦法去去介入這個北檢的一個一個偵辦好好好沒關係沒關係你這一你你這一套回答我已經已經經歷了一整年了啦經歷了一整年性刑犯就在這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5747.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5756.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
就是宗家兵啊把他抓起來 謝謝好 謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長跟廳長那麼接下來呢 我們請陳委員俊宇發言好 謝謝主席 我們請鄭部長有請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5780.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5803.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
部長早部長我們今天要審查的是行政院以及兩位委員所提出的律師法第九條的修正草案那中關律師法自民國三十年制定公佈以來已經有過十七次的修正那每一次的修法也能夠再思索律師的定位以及律師所肩負的使命是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5803.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5826.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那本法在前次112年6月公布的時候總共修正了五條並增訂一條的這個條文那當時是為了配合司改國事會議的這個議題以及公部門法律諮詢和訴訟的這個需求所以增訂有關公職律師的定義加入和退出公會等等那相關的這個規範內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5829.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5857.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
如果是針對第九條的部分則要回溯到108年時律師法的這個大幅修正但這個條文在實施後實務上是因為出現核種那當初未能設想的狀況才導致在五年後經過法務部的這個研議再提出對於該條文的修正草案那我想就叫我們部長關於本次第九條的這個修法背景和實務的這個需求是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5858.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5881.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
做簡單的說明謝謝委員這次一個修法主要是還是要解決剛剛委員有提到的就是沒有加入律師公務的律師涉及不法的時候呢那沒辦法一復懲戒的一個實務問題那這次事實上整個社會上有這樣的一個聲音所以我們這次才在就對 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5883.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5910.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這次修法律師未加入律師公會而設有第五條第一項第一款的不法宣後第八款的這個兩款的這個行為這個都是屬於因為他有律師證書但是他沒有加入公會的一個處理那這個是不是要廢止那個律師的一個證書這個是律師法裡面是不是有這樣立法上的一個不足的地方我們只有一個補漏的一個做法所以這個修法的背景是這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5912.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5931.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好那這次我們審查的這個三個草案版本內容均相同在條文上應該沒有這個太大的問題主要是想針對這個本法修正上路後實務上可能遭遇的狀況來救教部長在草案的第九條第二項當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5932.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5947.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
對於律師有職業和沒有職業分別有規範我簡報表格所示假使我們同樣以有本法第五條第一項第一款的這個情勢來看職業的這個律師應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5951.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5966.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這個一副律師懲戒委員會處理並且依照本法的這個規定結果可以這個是接受嚴禧警告還有申戒停止執行職務或是除名 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5967.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5993.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那並非一定是除名啦那反倒是律師與這個非職業期間有同樣的這個情勢那法務部就應該廢止其律師的證書啦那直觀上來看似乎在這個未職業期間比職業期間所受的這個處分更加的嚴峻那我想請教部長條文的這個設計是出於何種的考量規範的這個輕重應該怎麼來橫評 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5998.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6024.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個還是要因為它是屬於因為這個一定要加入工會嘛要加入工會那你不加入工會就是執行律師的一個業務那這個事實上這個是會影響到整個人民的權利司法的運作而且律師在執業的時候本來在工會上有一定的要遵守相對規則那你現在沒有加入工會反而這個制約的作用就會變成很薄弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6025.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6050.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那沒辦法去做也影響到他如果說有違法或不當的行為律師公會反而沒辦法去對他做一個處置就剛才像委員講的就是去討論懲職或懲戒等等的這些的一個做法所以那個罪在整個一個源頭那我們是說要廢止律師正式但是這一修法我們是也要徵詢尊重那個律師權利會的一些的一個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6051.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6066.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
因為部長我的意思是說為什麼他在這個沒有職業期間比這種職業期間的這種規範所受的處分更加的嚴峻這好像蠻奇怪的這個最主要是還是沒有加日工會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6075.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6100.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
最主要還是這個是可能影響到人民的一個權利跟司法制度的一個運作所以這次才會做一個但是我們還是有徵詢全聯會的一個意見然後才會做一個律師這邊是有一個把關部長我覺得這個問題還是沒辦法解釋清楚是不是這個會後再去做我們再做一個書面的一個報告好 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6102.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6127.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那連動到的是這個草案當中的第三項規定前兩前前項第二款的這個情勢法務部應該徵詢全國律師聯合會的意見也就是針對律師會職業期間的這種行為如果有本法第五條第一項第一款或是第八款的這種情形法務部應該先徵詢全國聯合會全國律師聯合會的這個意見但這個徵詢的效果為何如果雙方 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6132.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6150.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
意見不一致 法務部還是會能夠廢止證書是不是表示徵詢意見只是形式上作為參考而已那有關徵詢全國律師聯合會的部分應該如何來發揮實質的這種功能及效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6151.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6180.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這部分我想我們是的確是我們是一個徵詢的一個效果那當作我們廢紙律師證書的一個重要的一個參考那剛才委員有提到就萬一我們是全聯會的意見跟我們當時要廢紙這部分有不同那我想這個就個案的一個問題我想個案的情形不一樣那如果說我們全聯會他的那個徵詢的他是反對廢紙那這部分我想這部分我們就個案來做一個評估處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6181.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6210.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好 那另外是我們近年有傳出 近年有傳出許多這個律師涉嫌勾結詐騙集團那洩漏偵查秘密的這種相關案件但是以現行規範限於特定的這種犯罪最輕本刑一年以上才可以這個負懲戒停止職務那先前也有已經這個委員提出相關的這個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6210.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6223.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
要對於律師涉詐的這種情勢給予更重的懲罰那我們法務部是否也會針對律師涉入詐欺的這個部分來修法加以懲戒和停止的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6225.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6248.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好 謝謝 那我想這個的確是委員點出這個問題那本部有研理律師法第七條跟第七十四條的一個修正草案那將擴大律師經提起公訴的就是列入懲戒委員會停止執行職務的罪名範圍所以這部分是我們罪名有事做一個放寬做一個放寬 那個 那把那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6249.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6277.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
放寬為像放那個最終本年五年以上之貪污行賄侵佔詐欺背信或罪金本一年以上有期之罪修正為只要故意犯最終本以上之罪這就可以了另外停止的這部分我沒有次次的一個限制那我想這個草案那這部分我們盡量辦理這個預計在下個月繼續在一月中會送行政院來做一個審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6279.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6287.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
部長我想請教一下,我們是不是可以朝向說假設這個律師一旦涉案就會先暫停來執業,有沒有可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6292.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6316.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這部分我們本部沒有決定權,這個要移送那個律師懲戒委員會來做一個審理好,那當然我們也希望這部分能夠有這個院版的我們剛剛講的這個部分能夠有院版的這個相關的草案一併送審那我想請問部長有關這個研議的這個部分我們部內有沒有再開始進行這個草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6317.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6339.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
草案也要送行政院對 部內 我說部內有沒有開始開始在有有有 已經完成了那一月中就會送行政院來審議了一月中對 就是這個大概這個月好 那我們也期待啦我們期待說相關的這個修法內容能夠符合民眾的期待啦好 謝謝 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝曾部長接下來有請謝委員 榮介發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6358.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6368.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
主席我請你補充有請政部長補充勞作 辛苦今天我們教育把這個傳遞報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6375.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6383.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我是,我本來拜過我是請教,請今天你要請教,我想兩點我看到那個議題就不是,到四點我傳來,就變成風海事發,講這麼多,會很興奮,我請教你,不對嗎?我們國現在有那個處罰,事發關稅的這個行為,有多少處罰沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6401.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6426.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
目前是沒有,現在還在立法中這麼多年了因為之前人也沒有在,我就不懂得怎麼說這個外宗教啊有一個比較出名的案件,就是說那個刑事案件在高一判沒罪後,卡定的請法務部那時候的部長叫做雍伯 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6431.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6448.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
不要兇手啦,一般在你的手我相信是不可能會發生這種事情但當然是調查出來是有這個屬性的,不要兇手之後,這種行為是不是就改定叫做司法的關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6450.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6476.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以以現在的一個常人似乎因為沒有沒有司法關稅罪嘛現在沒有這個但是他當時這個行為的我像我現在我卡定的跟你說沒中,到一個案件就破了你可不可以叫檢察官不要上訴,這樣我是不是叫做司法的關稅這個是要個案認定,但委員你不會每天要給我談這種事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6478.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6502.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
因為我們群組知道主張嘛 群組要表現嘛 我知道嘛所以 同期時 我在講的 都不怪其他委員看了這個議題 大家都會去想到總召嘛上禮拜才上這個風海書法 講這麼多條文所以說 法務部自己提出來的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6505.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6507.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
你們有辦法 現在全部被柯總召去那裡經營 因為這跟我阿標要問的有相關嘛這是不是改定叫做關稅啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6518.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6525.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我想這個個案的內容實際上我並不清楚這個要看有沒有合乎到司法關說罪裡面的要件那這部分我想還要看個案來做一個認定因為這卡在法規的適用性過去這個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6546.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6562.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
很清楚嘛 因為我們就是沒有司法關稅罪嘛所以你們寫這個關稅的條文 已經幾年了 離空一九年一百空百年 年移 到現在都一直沒有上來歡迎啊這樣現在大家要針對這個司法關稅到今天你還沒做得好 發就對了阿發不發 你也已經做一年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6575.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6583.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
告各位啊但是你過去也都在法務部裡面108年到現在為什麼這個案子沒辦法好?為什麼你來在法院?那個更加來說當然不說請民機控啦因為寫這麼多十一這個法案變成是構成司法關稅這樣有說白嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6606.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6608.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這樣你們一時要送進來你有要送進來?什麼時候可以送進來? |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6614.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6633.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個事實上行政院是有審了11次的審查的一個會議那這部分還要再會嫌司法院嘛那他才能夠提院會因為大家既然對蘇華關稅這麼嚴若我相信是官司上去的心臟也討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6639.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6667.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
你覺得怎麼樣?這個是我們本部的立場是這樣,我們希望完成法治作業不要再多補充了,你的臨來三禮拜啦,這樣好不好?我們是全力來推動檢察官你在偵辦88會館的時候,那時候有沒有對臨行者做含罪出境出害,或是科技的感恐?這個是偵查中是交保的,這個是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6668.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6677.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
所以沒有嘛 洗錢的金額這麼大啦 結果只有給他九百九百就好 換他開庭啦 他也沒來啦 結果你們檢察官總是把酒金給人家最重 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6690.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6714.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這跟委員報告,這個是法院審理中的,那個有沒有要羈押或者是做一些的科控的,或者其他的,除非是法院的職權,這個是...我現在在說的對,現在現階段是法院的結果,但當時是你們法務部,你們檢察官的手就給交報了嘛我意思是說,這重大案件啦,金牙這麼大啦,你們那時候就給交報了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6718.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6735.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
你這個沒中你也是要嚴肅處理他這個跟委員報告他其實這一件那個起訴的一個事實他是金額129萬嘛犯罪手的是30萬啦30萬那這邊有沒有金額的必要是另外可以再斟酌他案件很多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6737.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6748.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
林先生的這部份應該只有幫助起訴的事,幫助洗錢跟幫助詐欺?他們可憐,你不可以這樣,你今天辦財黨或是辦什麼,辦一個館長說他要走旁邊的人,旁邊的人,幫助煩,整個都白做壞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6757.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6785.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
尤其在媒體上對你的形象稍微有少許就說 你說歡迎他來討案嘛就是說那個積極度不夠 會讓人覺得誤會啦 人家誤會嘛那這部分是不是在審理中的話這個我想這不是檢察官的另外檢察官事實上在一個審理中啦 在法院的審理中那事實上也有請法院來做一個依法來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6786.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6798.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
以法律來做一個強制處分這部分的處理加強制處分就對了這部分我們只有一個建立權在這裡只有一個建立權我們沒有建立的權利我們只是一個處請 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6799.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6812.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
丹青總統最近還有一個安慶籌過的兌數款你記得我在會堵私刑的時候,在這裡我就一直跟你說包括私刑完蛋,發生什麼事?現在你看,一個事件發生了,丹青總統這個兌數款籌過,發生他被判免訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6820.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6834.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這案件你怎麼知道這部分那個媒體有做一個報導你知道就對了那這部分這份事實上這個判決還沒有收到嗎還沒有收到已經判這樣了 當機時把他停職訴訟的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6838.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6844.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
停職受傷的時候,他也出來參加集會,也替他兒子去扁貨,種種比我們正常人更正常,那時候你們檢察官也出來主張要心力 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6851.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6878.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
把歡迎書給我繼續審理啊這個有齁 這個跟委員報告齁這個像二次經改案齁這個還有那個高院審理二次經改案的國泰病釋法跟教授偽證這部分齁 高檢署在都有用在113 8月14號以補充理由書有促請啦齁就是請法院你們要趕緊要繼續審判所以你們有提醒說這要過期啊有有有 這個有那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6878.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6901.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
另外台北地院有審理那個侵占公文案的這部份我告訴你 去年12月31日也是有發案 給台北地有處刑像這案件我先告訴你 電影不用特寫 這筆特寫比較好用就不用鎖了 阿兵會鬆一下 又捲那一枚去吃涼蝦 我有陪你 不用總統特寫啊就不用鎖 從前到現在都捲不好的事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6907 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6924.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這我不是針對鄧總統啦,就是說其他人以後這樣的案件也有可能這樣呢那個停止審判正式法院的職權,這部分應該不是我們法務部所能夠來處理的我問你比較重的,好啦來啦,你檢測我的部分啦公務人員,你在連政署,你現在檢測到調動,我感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6933.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6946.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我對一向對修長的臨時款我沒意見啦但是你處理到開一個給你們標榮過 讓行政院調到標榮 本來不錯的人臨時還不夠 現在社會勿論的說你調到這裡 你調新的檢察長 我都沒意見我尊重你 因為你要配合你當一個護金嘛 節度你的手段跟作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6959.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6968.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那些人才會用對他們的不平等的對談,變成在你們保齡裡面,在檢測體驗裡面,變成形成最大極數的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6973.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6989.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
行政變成當局主席 你有考慮到這樣嗎我想檢察長的調動 我想通盤的一個考量通盤的考量那部份我沒意見啦就是說你對其他這筆調動下來的人 受過行政移動 表揚 辦案這麼好這會影響到你內部的主席 你這點有思考嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6995.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7023.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我會想問通盤考量這個檢查調動本來就是要通盤考量而且不是說一定要做到任期這個是要...沒關係啦 沒關係 沒關係檢察官去弄車吃飯跟這個...欠國家錢的人做吃飯這件事你現在怎麼樣這部分其實那個台北地檢署在第一時間的時候就有做一個分案來做一個調查了那高檢署也有做一個督導了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7024.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7041.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那我想我們就就我想這部分我想北檢應該會再做一個處理應該會做釐清事實那如果有涉及到那個不當或者是我想會做一個評鑑要給社會一個交代社會對你們有多大的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7047.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7071.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
對於老總統也有過度的期待 打擊犯罪 誤金 請 毒 頂頂人家說最好最好 下必行案包括你的所屬所為 包括你的大娘 你要有所為的手法 另外做一個模樣和防範所以尊重你的這款 但是你要檢控內部的手氣 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7073.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7077.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好謝謝感謝蔣議員謝謝鄭部長接下來有請吳釗偉中線發言我們麻煩部長還有廳長請鄭部長哪一位廳長徐志廳廳長還有高廳長兩位高廳長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7102.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7131.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
行政廳廳長跟高廳長各位早安我想說今天的這個題目我剛剛在程序發言的時候我已經覺得已經說過這個東西是有一點問題我想說妨害司法公正罪這個目前還是在立法院因為我們才剛送出委員會不久所以我們今天來談論這個妨害司法公正罪跟現行犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7132.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7156.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這東西其實有一點牛頭不對馬嘴所以我才會一直說我覺得這個有一點過於法盲的認定因為這個東西到底跟號召民眾上街是否發起的人是認為要對個案進行施壓有操作個案跟壓迫個案其實我們有概念你都知道一個國家你要干涉司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7157.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7168.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
通常都是執政黨啦那一個說在野黨可以干涉司法我覺得這個這其實就只是一個政治的嘴砲政治的口水而已其實沒有什麼意義來我來請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7171.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7185.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我先請教一下兩位先請教那個廳長好了那個行政廳廳長我想請問一下還有那個行政廳的高廳長我想請問一下445跟718有談論到人民集會結社的自由我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7192.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7216.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
到底這個4.45跟7.8你們可以簡單解釋一下到底人民有什麼集會結社的自由啊你可以簡單解釋一下嗎在憲法第14條人民有集會結社是自由那4.45它就是針對集會遊行法相關的一些規定做的一些核限解釋跟核限解釋或是違反相關的規定的那個違憲的一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7216.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7238.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那針對說集會的目的的部分我們現在有修正在集會遊行法第四條也不可以主張共產主義跟分裂國土之類的這是部分他有做這相關的產式包括要給予人與集會遊行民眾的適當的場所跟保障這個是在當事事務的比較的主要的一個意思以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7238.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7264.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好 所以顯然齁 您剛剛講得很清楚嘛憲法14條集會結社的自由還有憲法11條言論自由其實人民的這些權利都是憲法給予的嘛我想說這個沒有問題對不對好 那今天呢我比較訝異的就是說竟然會有我們立法院的召委去召開這個好像對於我們這個集會結社對這個言論自由是有意見的那我常常覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7265.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7284.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
民進黨認為中華民國憲法是災難但是最近又拼命的利用釋憲想辦法來維持他的政權一方面覺得他是垃圾是災難一方面又只靠著他當作是一個救命所然後來希望能夠維護他的政權然後一方面說自己尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7285.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7307.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
民主 但另外一方面又發文挺戒嚴其實這個政黨 我覺得不僅雙標 而且都精神錯亂好 我跟各位說禮拜六我也有去現場所以說 剛剛羅翔講說現行犯逮捕那如果這真的能逮捕 那我也是其中一個啦我在這邊先跟各位報告一下其實啊 我想說在座的宗家兵召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7309.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7324.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
在1990年3月20號野百合學運 你們都是在上面的我是在下面挺你們的所以我跟你們曾經一起奮戰過這時候我是個高中生 左邊那個小胖子就是我那個就是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7325.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7350.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
你們可以回去看一下當年你們的照片 現場就是這樣我當年是一個高中生來挺你們 挺野百合學運因為我認為這個國家要走向民主這國家我們要廢除萬年國代 我們要求召開國師會議這就是我們當年的訴求啊現場有多少人像鄭文聖 黃偉哲 林佳龍 鄭麗君 陳其邁翁章良 鍾昭偉 范雲 陳啟玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7353.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7381.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
劉建興 羅文嘉 全部都是你們在上面 是我們追我們都在那邊追 追 怎麼講 要怎麼講我們擁護你們 我們認同你們所以我們曾經打過一場美好的仗但是到今天我真的很多事情我沒有辦法認同就我禮拜六的時候我在那邊講35年前我站在自由廣場前面 在中正紀念堂前面我當時在抗議當時的政府35年後我到這裡是抗議現在的政府所以到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7382.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7409.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們國家 我們的政府 我們的司法為什麼一直這樣讓我們失望那其實我們到現場抗議的很簡單就是我覺得這段時間的 憲判八 憲判九讓我重新對大法官 我真的覺得大法官什麼時候變成是一個執政者護航的就是為了幫他護航 當他的門神然後我們再回過頭來看今天我們立法院裡面的召委利用排案權 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7411.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7434.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
來要把這些集會結社的人民羅織入罪然後號召說這個到場的這些是違反妨礙司法公正罪的現行犯那我想請問一下這個是你們這些人當年追求的言論自由追求的民主國家嗎35年後過去了我還堅守我當年的想法但各位都變了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7438.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7450.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
所以為什麼禮拜六我要去現場我不是挺個案我是在那邊對於我們司法為什麼走到今天而難過為什麼一個起訴書可以跟我認為的起訴書完全不一樣的格式 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7451.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7471.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
明明《刑事訴訟法》有說 起訴書的內容是什麼?起訴書可以加入一大堆跟本案構成要求無關的東西嗎?我是在抗議這個當檢察官配合民嘴 配合一些政客把一些根本不該放入起訴書的東西放在那裡供這些民嘴來消遣 被告這就不對了 這跟個案一點關係都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7472.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7482.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
而且這是我們檢察官不應該的地方請問部長什麼時候您當年的起訴書會灌入這個人私生活或其他跟本案無關的事實在裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7488.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7502.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這部分因為起訴書有沒有關於事實那我看那個檢察官對這個有沒有關聯性如果有關聯性的話我想這部分寫出這是一個好沒關係部長這有答跟沒有答一樣好沒關係我想說起訴書是公開大家都有眼睛 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7504.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7527.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們起訴書有一個欄位是犯罪事實嘛有一個欄位是那個涉犯法條嘛那你涉犯法條跟犯罪事實有沒有都是同樣的東西一看就知道了嘛既然你不認為是涉犯法條的話那樣的事實就不應該出現在事實欄裡面犯罪事實欄裡面我想我在講一個是最簡單的法律ABC全國的法官、講官都聽得懂那既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7529.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7555.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
台北地檢的大黑金專組這些檢察官聽不懂看不懂忘了就算了我懶得跟他們多說但我還是覺得司法一定要公正司法一定要獨立超然你不能玩這一套好然後我再跟各位報告啦我們這次妨害司法公正罪我們所羅列的部分以及法務部的草案裡面所羅列的部分跟這次集會也完全沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7557.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7580.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
如果有興趣 部長你也可以回去看一下 你們的草案是什麼所以啊 把所謂的法治法公認罪現行犯跟這次的集會放在一起我個人是完全不認同啦那一直以來啦 我覺得我看到的就是喔不管我排偵查不公開的專報 或者是考察都會被民進黨說 我們在野黨在干涉司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7581.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7600.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
說真的我覺得很荒謬啦 大家都是這個體系出來的 什麼樣的人有辦法干涉司法一清二楚然後在那邊說在野黨來干涉司法 干涉個案我覺得我都當作是個政治語言啦 我也不是很想去理這些事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7604.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7630.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我還想啦 就是各位都是專業的司法官我們當年啦 我們進入這個體系的時候我們都一直希望維護司法的獨立維護司法不受干涉但是喔 不要這麼多年過去了自己變成是干涉的那個人另外喔 我再跟你們講啦如果你們真的說什麼叫干涉司法我會給你們報告一下最簡單的嘛 陳水扁陳水扁案的那時候黃絲淡那個是不是干涉個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7632.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7659.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
賴清德那時候說要幫無乃人他用政治生命來替無乃人背書這個才叫干涉個案陳時夢說要辦那些辦律的法官這個才叫干涉個案那如果這些只要談論到這個個案就叫做干涉個案的話那有一些案子社會發生一些殺警案什麼的人民跳出來說殺警案要重判這叫不叫干涉個案你說這個人不應該被處理不應該被 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7661.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7677.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
不應該被追訴叫做干涉個案叫他應該被追訴那也叫干涉個案啊那如果照這樣講全台灣人都在干涉個案啊洪仲秋案上街那麼多人那個是不是干涉個案所以啊我真的覺得啊荒謬政治人物荒謬自己啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7677.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7696.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
就是喔 騙了一個排案的時間啦 因為我以為排是排稅審法結果不是排稅審法 然後排了一個這個莫名其妙的東西那我剛剛有 也有提到 我剛剛在程序發言的時候有提到黃士傑次長 在 還有審發會委員 之前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7697.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7721.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我們立法院所召開的行政院運用國家資源製作文宣攻擊災害黨嚴重違反行政總理的這個專題報告的時候當時兩位都有發言說立法院的委員會不應該去做這種的專題報告不應該還沒有論斷的一件事情就直接說這東西有問題這東西是違法的所以我在這邊跟各位報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7723.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7734.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
既然以前的委員都曾經批評過 這樣是不對的那就是我們的委員會 本委員會實在不應該去做一個這麼不中立的一個議程在這邊更何況本來我們同意交換的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7736.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7765.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
說法是說要換稅審法這跟人民有關的法條那今天換了一個我個人認為是侵害人民憲法上面的權利的這是完全不應該不管是集會結社的自由權或者是言論自由權我覺得這個都不應該被侵害雖然我知道民進黨認為憲法是災難但是既然我們憲法還存在了一天我們就有遵守憲法以及遵守法律的義務這不能我們不能說民意代表啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7766.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7773.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
自己跳出來啦去損害人民的集會權利這個是不對的也不能叫人民閉嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7776.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7797.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
最後我想說這段時間我跟因為今天在場都是司法人員我想說這段時間發生了很多事情包括就是說我想請法務部或司法院要注意一件事情因為我們在倫理守則裡面到底什麼事能做什麼事不能做過於空泛以這次檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7798.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7826.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
跟那個無乃人吃飯這件事情來說好了無乃人不是通緝犯無乃人不是犯罪的集團的分子無乃人也不是現任的政治人物那檢察官跟他吃飯的問題在哪裡他如何違反倫理守則這個你要一個明確的規範嘛我今天這個不是在罵誰我只是說我希望法務部一個明確的規範否則像以前最早的時候法務部曾經說不可以隨便跟律師吃飯 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7827.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7849.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那我就說 那我爸爸是律師 我跟他吃飯有沒有關係或是有人的太太是律師 那她跟他吃飯有沒有關係那法務部這部分是不是要定清楚那有一些人在場 我們要趕快 法治法官要趕快退要離開 要離席 那這個的規範是什麼你不能一個空泛的東西丟在那裡 叫法官檢察官遵守法官檢察官不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7850.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7863.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我就像我剛剛講的無乃人 德高望重那我跟他吃飯有什麼問題他也不是任何一個政治人物了啊所以我還是這樣講啦 很多時候那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7864.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7890.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不叫殺之謂之虐所以你應該要把一些東西把它羅列清楚你才能夠讓檢察官能夠好好的去遵守那這幾位檢察官在現場的因為我不知道最後你們調查結果會不會去處罰但是我要替他們講一句話就是我根本無從研判我跟這個人進到我的這個參會裡面我可不可以跟他吃飯我搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7891.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7902.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那如果這樣是不是只要法官、檢察官、同事以外的或是我跟家人以外的人全部都不能跟他一起吃飯那你要講好啊你講好之後你再來去處罰他們我沒有意見否則這幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7905.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7927.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
檢察官到場的我跟他們也都不熟但是我覺得我還是要替他們講一句話就是我不認為這是基層檢察官的錯我認為這是法務部跟司法院的錯因為你們沒有明定清楚該怎麼做可以跟什麼人吃飯不可以跟什麼人吃飯你沒有羅列清楚的時候請你們自己注意這東西你不要又要棄居保帥來找幾個人來砍就對了好 謝謝吳釗緯 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7931.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7959.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那麼在這裡因為剛剛吳釗緯提到本席九月九十年三月二十號的葉柏和因為本席是在八十九年四月六五到九十一年才退伍所以葉柏和當時我不在現場我是在莊稼旅待命這一點跟那個吳釗緯說明一下因為這個是我們新聞找到的我了解我了解特別跟你說明不好意思但是我很肯定當年謝謝因為那一年葉柏和也沒有要求釋放誰是要求廢除國民大會謝謝接下來我們請吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7961.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7962.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
師瑤 阿妍謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7971.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7997.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
1990的野百合學運剛剛中嘉賓趙偉已經說了他當年人在入伍不在現場其實當年吳思瑤也在現場但是我年紀比較小那時候我還不是大學生沒有辦法在自由廣場上跟著這些大哥哥大姐姐一直為了台灣的民主改革發聲那個時候我是高中生我主動在下課之後你也是高中生然後下課之後主動到長 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8000.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8020.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
廣場外 我們站在那裡一起向這些為民主奮鬥的學長姐們我們一起來支持跟奧援但是呢 欸 張偉你可以請坐我稍後請 沒關係但是我真的覺得35年前的野百合學運它的純真 它的理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8020.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8044.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
被拿來跟2025年挺貪腐的一場遊行相提並論我的心情非常的沉重這個本質的良善與否大不相同對於台灣的政治革新所造成的時代意義也大不相同沒有開始計時喔我以為開始計時那先請部長請不好意思 那請部長好 那麼有請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8049.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8076.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以真的不要把三十五年前的野百合學運那個神聖性對台灣的民主運動所造成所帶來的這種正向的時代意義跟這週末定狗雞挺貪腐的行動相提並論我認為是褻瀆了這些三十五年前在廣場上的年輕的學生們那我也要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8078.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8091.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
在參與任何一場集會 結社遊行的人民無罪在自由民主的台灣 人民參與表達他的表意自由都是充分被保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8092.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8115.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
但是今天我們要訴求的反對政治介入司法反對去帶動民粹挑戰司法我認為該受撻伐跟質疑的是這些帶頭的政治工作者我們無意對人民的權利行使來進行批判該受批判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8116.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8133.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
是這些搞政治鬥爭利用善良百姓來作為政治鬥爭工具的這些政客才值得被批判好 下一頁這場定格基活動的訴求是反對綠色威權 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8136.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8156.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
如果是威權時代能夠有這樣的集會結社跟言論表意的自由嗎不可能有嘛當天的活動沒有人去限制沒有人去強害活動的進行甚至到活動結束的最終 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8157.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8178.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
带头的黄国昌委员带着人民扬言要冲进下一次可以努力来冲进总统官邸或者是有统促党的代表在台上煽动人民说我们可以一把火把地检署烧掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8179.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8198.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這種涉及暴力威嚇的言論就不能縱容除此之外當天的活動平和順利的進行部長有任何來現場制止集會結社言論表意自由的公權力的作為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8202.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8224.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
是警政署我知道這是集會遊行法 這是警政署但是當天都非常非常的平和順利所以說並沒有威權的存在當今的自由民主的台灣如果有威權 如果搞戒嚴怎麼可能會有這樣的集會結社的自由呢不是嗎但是我個人又感同身受 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8226.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8245.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
挺柯文哲是個幌子瘦肌肉搞政治的鬥爭來做政治的結盟才是事實啊當天除了發起的民眾黨的委員們我們國民黨的委員也都共襄盛舉了甚至統促黨的代表上台了 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8246.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8269.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
還有支持一中框架的統派的團體也到場了白色 藍色 紅色大家一起來挺單一的司法個案社會會有評論的也不需要立委在這邊大家在這裡說你對我對 你錯我錯社會會有公斷歷史會有評價但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8275.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8299.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我想問一下部長喔從柯文哲的案子誰是舉發人柯文哲的案件是那個民意代表來告發的那你知道是誰嗎有知道是鍾小平跟游淑慧的私語人對有中性的私語人那林姿妙縣長的涉貪案是誰舉發的你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8301.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8319.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
也是民意代表是民眾黨的陳婉慧前立委那請問高鴻安的涉貪案誰是舉發人?是,是國民黨籍的政治工作者林耕仁換言之來找民進黨出氣有沒有找錯對象? |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8326.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8336.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
柯文哲的案是國民黨的鍾小平遊俗會舉發的林姿妙涉貪案是民眾黨的陳婉蕙提告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8337.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8352.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
高鴻安的案件是國民黨籍的靈根人請問哪一位是民進黨人去舉發、去介入、去挑起、去製造司法選擇性辦案的可能就講事實嘛哪裡有執政黨在追殺在野黨呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8361.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8368.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
更何況部長 任何司法個案偵辦的核心是證據吧事實上跟誰舉發也沒有關係啊有證據就辦 沒有證據勿往勿縱嘛這是最簡單的司法常識 不是嗎所以這種 你個人對於這樣子的一個活動的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8386.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8396.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
部長您總有看法吧我們當然尊重集會表意的自由但是對於這樣一個扣上是執政黨在打壓司法的主題您總有您的見解吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8399.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8424.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們這個表意的自由我們都尊重尤其是有依法申請那你要不要為司法人員認真辦案專業養成的司法人員發聲這個有對什麼要火燒這個我們是覺得說這個是有可能甚至有人拿著標語說法律人要退出司法體系你有沒有看到對於這樣的主張你有什麼comments對於我們這麼專業努力養成公正獨立辦案的司法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8426.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8453.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
作為大家長 您總要說一下吧捍衛法律人的尊嚴 專業我想我們那個在整個法律的一個尊嚴我想這個我們就是要去維護的那對司法的這些公證我想我們要去呵護的而不是說去做一個脫序的攻擊那我想這個是我們不樂見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8454.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8467.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
要為法律人堂堂正正公正辦案的法律人站出來說話因為我們是希望那個司法是維護公正聯名清廉的一個形象來 夏業我們一起來協詢黃國昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8470.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8494.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這是當初時代力量的黨主席徐永明涉入SOGO案的時候同一個黨籍的立法委員黃國昌他說的話尊重司法裁判與當事人上訴的權利也相信司法終究會給人民應得而公正的判決這是法律教我們的事也是每位公民應有的態度與信念 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8497.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8519.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
2022的黃國昌何在?當時同樣是他同一個黨的黨主席涉案但黃國昌如果還有法律人的良知跟專業就應當回到他當年所說的尊重司法的裁判與當事人上訴的權利要相信司法會給人民應有的公正判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8520.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8542.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所有的法律人跟所有的公民都要有這樣的態度跟信念協尋黃國昌黃國昌已經消失太久了2025年在這裡跟我們坐在司法法治問政的黃國昌我真的已經認不得他了來最後下一頁如果委員們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8544.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8566.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
一場活動不能被認為是司法妨礙司法那麼我要說惡砍法務部的預算甚至在沒有開始審之前就揚言要砍預算這就是非常惡質的政治意圖我已經整理出來了過去三年法務部的預算被凍結被刪減都不到1% |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8571.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8590.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
因為大家支持司法辦案立委當然可以監督預算但是要合乎理性以這個會期來講司法法委員會審訊的法務部預算已經被凍結的具體成案的是4691萬毒品防治基金被凍了1000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8592.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8598.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
保留凍結數有3億715萬這都是史上未見的以過去三年的凍結數審議完略是487萬但現在加總起來連保留連決議的已經高達3億67000萬史上未見而簡列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8619.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8641.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
目前也有7362萬被保留很可能會透過表決砍光光部長你雖然擔任部長時間不長但是您當法務部同仁也整理給您過去審預算的一些經驗你有看過這個預算被砍得這麼高或是被凍得這麼多的情形嗎今年比較今年比較特殊 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8647.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8660.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以我們希望委員能夠多支持因為保護部的預算事實上就全力在做一個整個一個推動我們各項的一個政策包括打炸毒品好 回到前一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8661.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8676.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我要再次提醒如果在野黨的委員認為一場活動他們不承認不認為那是妨礙司法公正罪不認為是動用民粹來包圍施壓司法的話那我要提醒立委在立法院透過質詢預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8679.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8694.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這一個人事案用立委的實質影響力來干涉司法體系的運作這恐怕就會傷及我們的司法獨立跟運作了做這樣的提醒 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳委員 謝謝曾部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8695.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8712.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
在這裡預作一個會議的程序宣告那麼在場有張委員、翁委員跟王委員發言完畢後我們休息五分鐘讓大家需要天冷,有些需要好,那接下來我們就請張委員、齊凱發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8733.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8755.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
請政部長和司法院兩位聽長委員好今天我的心情很緊張今天是我們台灣言論自由和民主發展嚴重倒退的一天我們立法院今天蒙羞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8760.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8770.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
台灣的立法院今天竟然還有專報在討論民眾上街還有他的言論自由是不是會妨礙司法的公正現在南韓南韓的國會跟他們的法院正在追究在逮捕他們的總統因為他總統製造國家的混亂宣佈了戒嚴結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8790.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8819.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
台灣的立法院司法法治委員會今天拍了一個專報在限制人民集會遊行跟他的言論自由民進黨下西下井民進黨你們怎麼對得起以前那麼多流血流汗民宿減肥好不容易建立的台灣的言論自由跟集會遊行的自由呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8821.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8828.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
你們這樣對得起你們以前的民主前輩對得起新蓋縣的對得起施民德嗎你們以前的民主前輩如果現在地下有知我相信上來 狠狠打你們一巴掌你們讓民進黨蒙羞了讓立法院蒙羞 讓台灣蒙羞了大部分的人都抖腿了南韓 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8848.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8864.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
他們國會議員 他們人民救了南韓雖然現在還在動盪當中可是他們把一個發布戒嚴令的總統拉回來了現在民進黨是在走向戒嚴跟獨裁嗎連期望遊行都不行 引進自由都不行嗎去年年底民進黨 立憲黨團鬧了世界級的大笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8872.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8880.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
全世界唯一去呼應去支持 以習的下動員戒令的只有民進黨 美國 南韓 日本 土耳其全世界主要媒體在笑你們南韓人民生氣了 罵你們什麼 可惡的殘處今天你們在立法院又搞出一個國際大笑話請問 請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8899.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8907.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
全世界的民主國家現在呢 國家國會殿堂裡面會排像這樣一個前置人民上街頭還有言論自由的一個專報嚇死嚇盡講上街抗議集會遊行我為民國70年可以造新聞那時候民進黨不是每天都在街頭上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8928.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8931.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那時候民進黨還在討論要走議會路線 走街頭路線那時候為了海外的黑名單不能回來為了7萬人選的刑法100條像保定跟兩位廳長一定很熟悉要廢除7萬人選的刑法100條民進黨至少上街100次以上民進黨前輩是怎麼流血流汗 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8958.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8962.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
爭取到台灣的這個言論自由結果民進黨現在把他扼殺了嗎?宗嘉賓 嘉賓我一直以為賴清德賴總統民進黨的東出西闊的宗嘉賓擺這個案他會趕快踩煞車因為這很丟民進黨的面子啊嚇死嚇盡啊他沒有找你談嗎?民進黨的立業黨團去年頂次丟了臉國際大笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8989.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8993.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
他沒有踩煞車嗎讓整個台灣蒙羞了刑法一百條 至少一百次嘉賓 你知道言論自由制是幾號嗎嘉賓 你知道言論自由制是幾號 北京知道嗎我們的言論自由制跟民進黨一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9019.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9040.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
鄭楠榮 楠弄有一個非常密切的關係我想嘉賓一定還記得這個人楠弄為了要進出百分之百的言論自由因為民國75年還在戒嚴時代他就帶著群眾到龍山寺去辦集會遊行那時候國民黨有把他抓起來嗎他辦集會遊行他辦雜誌 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9048.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9053.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
後來他主張百分之百言論自由還有要台灣獨立國民黨要把他抓起來他把自己關在他的編輯室他的家裡 就他編輯的地方總編輯的台下放了三桶汽油他捍衛台灣人民也捍衛自己的百分之百言論自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9076.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9080.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
他壞字本了 民進黨因為這樣還訂了一個中華民國的事業七號言論自由制哥哥 今天民進黨 擺這張案讓民眾不能夠上街遊行集會遊行 連用嘴巴言論自由都沒有這是什麼民進黨你們對得起以前的民主前輩嗎對得起鄭蘭柔嗎對得起習近平對得起施民德嗎更讓人家生氣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9107.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9116.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
賴清德總統民進黨都以前為民主流血流汗的人你們人都還在啊你們怎麼會引起民進黨今天召集這樣的專報當沒收了人民的言論自由台灣還是民主國家嗎111民進黨抗議司法不公一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9133.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9138.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們在搶救柯文哲司法人權的同時這段時間司法亂象不夠多了嗎林秉文跑出去了還可以隔海為民進黨的梁文傑陸委會的副主委喊冤 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9151.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9175.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
柏定你這樣笑你說你這樣超商的店員你只能歡迎他回來投案我想我們是因為這個是法院審理中的一個通緝案件那我們是呼籲那個林秉文要趕緊回來投案那個我想這才是正辦接受審判我的用意是這樣柏定不是只有你像超商的這個店員而已陳取義那個案子我們的總統賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9178.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9193.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
跟超商的電影也是一樣啦 他說陳其立請你回來投案我們的司法這麼沒有尊嚴 司法沒有公權力嗎你跟總統 滑坡人跟總統要做什麼事情限期歸案 你不回來我把你抓回來對不對你們讓人 讓一個洗錢上百億的人跑掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9202.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9206.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
讓人家七把剪刀跑得出去 已經是不對了第二 當人家跟你嗆聲的時候陳琦還去逛大街 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9210.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9232.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
人家這一次 林秉文還嗆你們你們應該是維繫司法尊嚴啊限期給我歸案 沒有花五百 抓回來啊 是不是這樣結果你們像超商的店員 歡迎投案林秉文不能抗議嗎陳啟玉這個是我們有聲壓喔 這個是我們有聲壓之前定次無保請回 第二次一百五十萬人不就跑了嗎 還是逛大街啊好 沒有 我要強調今天是歷史性的一刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9239.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9257.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
今天是歷史性的一刻今天所有的立法委員包括官員在這邊答詢都會留下歷史的紀錄立法院白紙黑字會清清楚楚的記錄今天為什麼民進黨在斯瓦帕斯委員會排了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9259.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9269.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
剝奪人民 壓迫人民連集會遊行都不行 連言論自由都沒有的一個專報一樣的 今天所有立法會的每一個人講話 包括鍾嘉賓 剛剛吳思瑤 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9271.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9274.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
張祺凱今天在這邊講話部長你的答詢都會留下紀錄謝謝你是站在人權這一邊你是站在破壞人權這一邊你是站在維持台灣人民的言論自由還是機會遊行還是你是破壞機會遊行不讓這邊講話的歷史會留下紀錄好謝謝謝謝張委員謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9294.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9311.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
接下來我們剛已經有預作宣告了在王委員宏威巡達完畢後休息五分鐘那今天的專題是針對號召者可能有的委員在文字閱讀上有他的理解我們接下來請翁委員小林發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9329.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9352.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
主席好 那首先有請部長還有司法院應該是刑事廳廳長有請鄭部長跟李廳長我想今天一開始這個很多委員就已經針對為什麼在今天要安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9356.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9370.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個專報的事情已經講了很多了那本席當然對於中嘉賓委召委這個在禮拜五下午臨時變更議程的事情我也是感到不解和不滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9372.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9384.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那麼一開始我還在想說中委員 中召委一直對於稅務行政審理法草案積極的推動所以想說利用大概我們要收回 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9386.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9411.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個會期結束之前趕快排案要加速審理結果沒想到三個小時之後呢就看到又變更了議程那變更了議程我一開始還沒有議會過來仔細想了一下才發現這個原來是為了這個禮拜六的這個111的定估值的活動那麼但是呢對本席而言我更感到訝異的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9413.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9442.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我們的司法院和法務部這個大概是打破過去的一些慣例非常快速的在當天下午晚上就已經提了你們的報告書司法院的報告書還有法務部的報告書我記得司法院的報告書我這裡收到大概是晚上六點多七點的時候那法務部大概也是就在晚個半小時左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9443.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9470.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這其實在過去我們司法法治委員會裡面是非常非常難看到有這麼迅速就提出報告書的情況這讓本席不禁懷疑是不是你們這些都已經套招套好了我想請那個司法院這個李廳長能不能先回覆一下而且我在這裡我也感到奇怪為什麼今天你們的副秘書長沒有來是由你們幾位廳長來代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9472.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9490.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
現在司法院已經沒有秘書長了然後是由副秘書長代理秘書長結果現在竟然連來立法院接受備詢的這副秘書長也沒來然後由廳長來代理這樣其實不是很尊重立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9493.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9515.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
有關於剛剛委員懷疑說司法院是不是有套造型這個是沒有的因為這個相關議題我們是當天下午才收到我們緊急的討論那要提供報告出來給司法保持委員會那至於說副秘書長的部分那因為他有跟主席有請假那是有今天由我們兩位廳長來出席接受質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9516.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9545.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
是好謝謝李廷長就是當然啦我還是希望就是以後副秘書長在這個正式秘書長沒有上任之前該來立法院接受備詢的還是要來那我看了司法院的我在第一時間我就看到司法院的報告確實啦我想說說你們套招這個對你們也不對你們事實上司法院一開始就已經表態了認為說這司法妨害公正罪的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9546.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9559.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
其實現在也還在討論當中那麼更何況這是涉及到憲法人民集會遊行自由的權利保障所以不會有這個違反司法防害公正罪的這樣的一個情況那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9561.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9581.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
法務部倒是部長您這裡很有趣的在這報告書裡面您就把現行的這個相關的條文列舉了全部都列舉出來了這其實讓不明就裡的人會以為說是不是真的像這個小草或是其他當天去參加一一活動的這些民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9582.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9595.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
去了之後就可能會觸犯這什麼妨害公眾罪或是等等的這些刑法相關的罪責那麼最重要的其實我覺得你們在報告書上面沒有搞清楚我們現在妨害司法公正罪它只是一個草案可是你們在最後的一段裡面好像看起來會讓人家誤以為說是不是這個妨害司法公正罪已經通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9609.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9627.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這部分話可能要請部長您回去再看一下你們之前提交的報告書還是有必要叫下面的同仁要注意我們法案進行的情況接下來第二個議題我想請教司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9629.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9655.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
雖然說今天副秘書長沒來了不過我想你們都是議題的應該有些議題還是可以講我們上週五立法院基本上針對行政院所提出的這個限訴法的復議案予以否決了那麼在這裡呢本席還是有幾個問題想請教在行政院提出復議案認為限訴法治案難行這部分有跟司法院有進行討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9657.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9673.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
司法院有提供意見嗎沒有 這部分沒有 據我所了解是沒有雖然這個不是我的夜館但是據我所了解是沒有的好 都沒有所以行政院他現在提出的至愛難行的理由完全是行政院自己的憑空想像對不對 司法院基本上並沒有覺得至愛難行嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9678.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9693.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這個部分不是我的夜館因為這個是書記聽這部分的那我想這個部分我的回答並不是會不會這是我所了解的但是不是我了解的是沒有啦那只能跟志翰委員這樣做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9693.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9722.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
是啦 如果說你們真的說有跟司法院跟行政院一起討論的話這也是有問題啦那麼司法院對於就是限訴法的通過我們在過去的委員會裡面其實都有進行一些討論那也知道說司法院基本上還是保留的態度還是擔心這個大法官會議萬一不能夠運作會不會影響到人民的視線權利可是請問一下大法官現在到底有沒有在開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9725.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9741.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
縣訴法通過之後大法官會開會嗎我真的很抱歉這個不是我的夜館我沒辦法在這邊回答對這就是這個問題因為呢今天不是你的夜館所以你就是什麼這個問題都不能回答該是副秘書長來還是要讓副秘書長來他才能夠回答這些問題嘛對不對更何況我們現在講了縣訴法如果說總統能夠盡速的通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9751.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9757.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
通過之後固然現在的憲法法庭可能沒有辦法去做成實體的裁判尤其是在宣告法律違憲的判決他必須要至少九個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9767.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9787.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
但是這並不代表大法官沒事做大法官還是有很多的事情要做去審理相關的裁定 受不受理或者是還有其他的一些判決延續事項它不是可以做 只是低度運作並不是說不能夠運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9789.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9807.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
这个部分其实司法院要搞清楚这个状况现在行政院提出的复议案的理由口口声声的就说宪法法庭会瘫痪了然后可能会影响到人民的视线权利根本就是在造谣根本就是在说谎怎么可能会瘫痪 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9808.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9827.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
就算是憲法法庭就算是現在憲訴法通過立刻生效那大法官只是短時間的低度運作還是要看賴總統什麼時候要提出第二批的大法官的名單所以基本上不會有所謂癱瘓憲法法庭的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9829.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9848.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好 那麼接下來我還要再提的另外一個議題就是1月11號 雖然說大家民眾知道的是定估之的活動可是當天其實最重要的還是司法節請問 廳長知道司法節的由來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9855.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9874.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這個是不是私聽這個我說實在我不是很清楚不過委員這邊已經寫有在簡報上面已經把它寫出來了我想我就不用容我在這邊再重複的再說明可是我真的認為你們都應該去了解一下那個不曉得部長之報司法節的由來 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9877.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9896.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
這個我不清楚司法節的一個由來謝謝委員把司法節的由來大家都只知道說司法節我們應該要感謝勞苦功高的司法人員可是卻忘記司法節的由來 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9897.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9911.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那這個部分我認為法務部未來在你們的網頁上面還有司法院在你們的網頁上面都應該好好的去強調司法節的由來是什麼啊那這次也是因為有新聞揭露說在你們司法院的網站上面竟然司法節 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9914.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9924.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個講得非常的簡單只有在兒童版的網頁上面才把司法節的由來講清楚為什麼會有司法節就是因為從這個鴉片戰爭以來其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9931.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9954.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
各國的列強在中國其實訂了非常多不平等的條約包含外國人在中國的大陸領土裡面犯罪都不構成犯罪所以在抗戰之後我們才廢除了種種的不平等的治外法權的條約 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9956.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9983.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那麼因此在1943年的1月1號重新與各國訂定新的平等條約那麼才將這一天定為司法節1月11號那麼這段歷史是很重要的可是在你們司法院的網頁上面我們看看怎麼講這些司法的嚴格你們現在把整個中華民國的這個中國法治史現在割裂成為只有日本時代的法治史 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9984.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10000.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
日治時代法治時代我覺得這是極為不妥的你說今天連我們部長然後幾個廳長你們都是在司法界德高望重的前輩而且非常重量級的法律人如果大家連對司法界 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10002.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10021.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這為什麼要慶祝司法節 原由都不清楚那就更不用講說 我們還會瞭解到過去很多國家列強當時在我們中華民國在我們中華民國領土上面 那麼他們是如何的壓霸 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10022.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10047.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
如何的藐視我們這個中華民國的司法所以我覺得這個部分是很重要的那麼本席呢也希望你們回去能夠趕快去修改你們司法院的網頁而不是那麼強調所謂的日治時期的這個法律那麼要了解就是你們現在司法院的網頁上面是割裂的在整個台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10050.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10078.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
國民政府遷到台灣的這段時間的法制是真空的你們記錄大法官解釋從86號解釋才開始在談那前面從第一號到第85號解釋就是復職缺乳也沒有在講細談這部分的整個法制的經過所以我認為說司法院還有法務部其實在你們法制教育上面應該要好好的再加強這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10080.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10107.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那麼今天因為秘書長沒有來啦副秘書長沒有來所以呢麻煩請把我的意見帶回去給副秘書長要趕快著手的來修改這個網頁那也麻煩部長請你們在法務部的網頁上面也要清楚的記名為什麼要紀念司法節吧司法節不是只有去感謝這個司法院的法官們對不對檢察官相關司法人員也都需要一併了解這個司法節的由來 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10108.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10112.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
好 謝謝謝謝翁委員 謝謝部長 謝謝廳長接下來請王委員 洪威發言好 主席我請我們法務部長還有我們刑事廳 李廳長請鄭部長 李廳長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10133.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10160.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
來 部長 聽長好我們今天的專題報告是號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為防害司法公正罪之現行犯那我想請教部長111定國記那次在 就是這兩天在自由廣場的集會請問一下算不算是防害司法公正罪的現行犯這已經發生了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10162.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10175.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這部分這個是有依法有申請集會的一個場合我們這個都是依照憲法14條跟11條的一個規定我想這是基本人權我們就尊重這些所以1月11號沒有現行犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10176.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10198.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
他這個現行犯就要個案來看嘛沒有嘛有沒有偷襲的一個行為我想在場的已經發生過啊已經發生啊他這不是預期的他已經發生所以沒有現行犯嘛對不對有沒有現行犯這是在場的有在場收證的這些我想警方他們會有做目前沒有對不對這部分我並不清楚好來我請教廳長 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10199.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10216.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
以現在1月11號那個自由廣場的行動有現行犯嗎?要抓起來嗎?就目前來講因為那個屬於警政署那邊要去做調查的那這部分就個案來講我們目前市保院這邊沒有任何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10217.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10232.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我要講的就是說其實我們一直說民主要進步而不是退步其實過去人民上街抗議司法不公甚至抗議各案的司法個案其實所在多有 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10233.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10252.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我給大家看一下其實很有名的白玫瑰運動它事實上也是一場非常有指標性的公民運動它當時抗議的就是恐龍法官就是恐龍法官但是我相信不管任何的政黨大家都肯定那一場白玫瑰運動當年為了救阿扁要讓他特赦在台南也曾經發生過要特赦阿扁的大遊行 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10260.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10281.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
當時也沒有任何人被視為現行犯要妨害司法公正然後變成說你是因為個案而有任何人被抓起來這個是個案同樣的我們現在有司改會當年的司改會也是當時有司法改革的訴求然後在台北街頭遊行後來就是促進了一個司改會的產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10287.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10312.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以過去其實人民走上街頭針對不管司法改革甚至個案的事件所在多有如果按照我們今天的專題報告的這個題目這不是荒天蝦之大雞嗎那麼為什麼以前的人都不用被抓起來現在就要被視為現行犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10313.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10323.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以請問一下部長跟體長你們能夠認可今天的一個報告的題目認可今天報告的一個方向嗎來部長先講 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10327.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10355.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我想這個我們都尊重那個民眾的集會遊行的這些的表意的一個自由但是如果說現場是有一些的偷襲甚至有犯罪的行為人家就發聲了嘛你還在如果如果他們都已經結束遊行了哪一個嘛哪一個偷襲行為你告訴我啊哪一個偷襲行為啊警方應該如果偷襲行為或違法的一個行為情況就會收證嘛那這裡有哪些那個是我想情況在處理中不是我們這個題目適合嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10358.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10381.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
如果民眾因為司法案件或者司法訴求上街頭遊行你就要看誰是現行犯 通通抓起來我們是警察國家嗎我們是尊重這個整個大院的一個我知道因為這是我們這個司法法治委員會排的一個報告但是我希望不管是在法務部或者司法院或者是因為今天沒有警政署來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10383.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10403.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
大家其實基本上都要尊重人民的權利你所謂的脫序它如果裡面有暴力的有強制行為的那當然是這個個案處理但是我剛才舉出來過去有這麼多的因為司法案件或者是爭取司法改革而上街頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10404.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10410.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
如果按照我們今天的一個專題報告的定義的話那是不是代表通通抓起來我想大家沒有辦法認可嘛因為包含白玫瑰運動或者過去去那個促進這個整個的私改會的這個產生都是靠著上街頭而大家得到一個這樣的結果所以基本上我覺得因為今天那個主席也站起來了但是我覺得我們今天的 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10433.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10458.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
司法法治委員會做這樣的一個專題報告就立法院來說就作為一個人民喉舌的立法院來講我覺得是極其不適當的以上 謝謝好 謝謝汪委員 謝謝部長 謝謝廳長我們剛剛一剛的宣告待會我們就休息五分鐘這是強調今天談的是號召不是參與 謝謝休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10467.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10468.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
五位的一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10484.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10504.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
來做一個人的組合他如果太大力不夠 那有可能會打出大幅增加的風險那這樣他可能剛有提醒說 如果DM有成功 那就有其他人的導致他跟第六項也可能受到影響有意思嗎 第九項 第六項 因為跟憲法沒有合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10509.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10509.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
第六項第六項第六項第六項 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10539.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10540.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
謝謝大家收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10567.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10582.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
要不然不一樣喔要不然不一樣喔要不然不一樣喔要不然不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10592.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10611.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個 我說字體文字呢 你們要不要改我沒有改 我再回寫吧這個文字 整個就翻了就可以了 希望這件事好你們這就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10621.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10630.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10665.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10681.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們來進步的很大吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10685.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10686.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
謝謝大家收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10747.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10767.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10774.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10798.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好現在繼續開會接下來有請沈委員發會質詢沈委員沈委員發會不在有請徐委員巧心發言謝謝主席我們有請法務部長請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10804.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10829.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
委員好部長我們今天呢在這個司法法治委員會的這個主題叫做呢號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨害司法公正罪之現行犯嗎這個題目我有幾個定義想要先跟您確認那這個最近是否有人號召民眾上街參與一些遊行跟抗議的活動這個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10833.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10842.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這一次就是定國記那有哪一些人你所知道有號召民眾上街頭的這個我想有依法申請的話不是啦 我問你的是說你知不知道有誰有號召民眾上街頭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10856.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10877.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
第一個黃國昌委員嘛你不敢講我幫你講第二個是朱立倫主席也有鼓勵嘛第三個還有很多民眾黨的立法委員還有國民黨的立法委員也都有號召說大家可以來參加這個活動嘛那呢我想要問一下法務部的態度這些人他們是現行犯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10880.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10895.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
如果說這個沒有違法的話這個就沒有現情況的問題那我就問你有沒有違法嘛因為111已經結束啦從111結束111的這個活動結束了嘛那111整個過程當天的整天有沒有違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10897.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10923.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這部分因為這個是集會遊行是警政署的主管的那這個那個警方有派人在現場有發現有違法的我想他們會收證那我就問說那現在目前號召民眾上街的黃國昌委員朱立倫主席國民黨的立法委員跟民主黨的立法委員有號召群眾上街那他們是否在我們今天的主席裡面是所謂的現行犯呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10923.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10949.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
有沒有號召人們上街是不是跟性犯就是要涉及到犯罪對你剛剛講過了我就問你結果因為11已經結束了這個結果你們結果之後你看到現行犯了沒有這不是我看的為準有沒有現行犯是在場那個警方要收證那你有沒有去詢問警方現行犯的情況我會去干涉個案去介入個案因為司法法治委員會那召委是白癡嗎為什麼要排這個題目不是找警政署的人來要找你來 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10950.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10966.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
你有沒有問過他說這關我什麼事為什麼你要找我來我們都尊重大院的尊重大院嗎所以排了一個題目我們在場沒有人能夠回答那這不是浪費所有人的時間嗎再來我看一下有現行犯照片來一下請問一下這算不算現行犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10967.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10995.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們的警察在立法院啊然後呢在守護不要讓民眾有入侵公署的可能性不要讓民眾有入侵公署的可能性警察在前面擋然後我們有一位先生齁這個我也不知道他是誰有一位先生拿著油壓剪去破壞警察的這個欄杆然後呢鼓譟民眾要入侵公署請問這算不算卸刑犯這部分那個這個檢方已經分攤在處理了檢方在處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10997.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11013.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
檢方跟誰在處理台北紀檢署在分案他案處理這個案子是不是你說這位先生檢方正在調查說他是不是屬於現行犯正在處理有沒有有沒有是這個有沒有是號召群眾入侵公主的犯罪的這個部分檢調已經在處理了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11017.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11044.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這部分是警方有在分他案他案就是因為整個事實還不是那明朗所以有分對我就講這個畫面就是說警方所布置的這些避免民眾入侵公署的部分被破壞然後邀請就是讓這些民眾說要衝進立法院的這個入侵公署的行為法務部這邊警方有在偵辦是嗎這部分是有人在就是警方有在做一個瞭解有人告發嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11049.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11078.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們讓部長回答完就好好不好這部分就是檢方有分他案檢報分案的嘛誰報分案的你說民眾檢報因為媒體有報導媒體報導之後檢察官正在分案然後去了解說這一天這樣子的行為是否屬於總是要做一些了解嘛那他的這個檢方分案的相關的罪名大概是往哪個方向去這個我不清楚他案就是因為事實不明 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11079.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11083.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
事實不明 這樣事實不明那我問你喔就是古造群眾入侵公署相關的法規我們在名稱上面會用什麼樣的罪名來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11098.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11114.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這部分我想我們在這個一個報告都有提到就是因為集會結社集會遊行我們都尊重就依法來申請的合法我們都尊重但是如果偷襲的行為偷襲行為如果說甚至違法行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11115.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11130.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
新華135條的妨礙公務罪妨礙公務罪136條的聚眾妨礙公務罪聚眾妨礙公務罪聚眾不解散聚眾不解散聚眾是強暴脅迫等等聚眾強暴脅迫還有一些的三或他人犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11131.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11141.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
他有犯罪 要做什麼違法善後這些就做哪些違法善後犯罪還有集會遊行法的一些不過這個都是要個案 沒問題那我們就請檢方我們請檢方公正的來偵辦 好不好因為時間到了 知道所以檢方已經有在偵辦當中嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11152.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11175.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
你剛不自己講的分案調查警方會在現場會做一個收證嘛所以這個部分有在檢方分案調查了嗎或者是民眾的有一些人民的一個告發一訴訟法那所以不是我剛剛一直問你的問題說這個案件裡面有沒有人去告發的嘛對就這個而已這個我現在圖上的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11179.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11180.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
謝謝許委員 謝謝鄭部長接下來請紅委員孟凱紅委員孟凱 紅委員孟凱不在請莊委員瑞雄發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11205.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11211.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
謝謝趙偉 有請我們法務部部長還有司法院廳長有來請鄭部長 還有司法院廳長 李廳長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11219.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11248.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
部長跟廷長今天我們召委排這個專報這個報告號召民眾上街對抗司法審判者為妨害司法公正罪的現行犯就大家都把這個文字唸出來而已這個是後面其實加了一個問號那這樣的一個題目啊在野黨的朋友當然會跳腳但我倒覺得是很值得社會大眾來討論我不曉得你怎麼樣去看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11248.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11266.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
今天請司法院來做報告 還有法務部來做報告你說在野黨這一次在司法節就在司法節當天號召了這麼多的民眾來上街頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11267.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11280.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那如果真的要去解讀這一場的一個集會遊行的話那其實你把它定性成說 號召民眾上街來對抗司法的審判者 我認為是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11282.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11296.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我認為是對的那只是說到底是不是妨礙司法的公正的一個現行犯鍾佳銘召委是把他畫上一個問號他是要提供啊在整個社會大眾來做一個省思啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11298.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11323.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
台灣民眾黨的黨主席啊這是在我們台灣算大咖的啦當他參選過總統嘛然後郎當祿育被收押在這偵辦的一個過程裡面那其實有很大的一個波折很大的一個波折那在檢察官申請羈押以後在偵辦申請羈押以後那台北地方法院他也去把他交保那檢察官去抗告高等法院就把他給撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11327.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11330.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那再去加保 再抗告 撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11331.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11358.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
再回來變羈押那難免啊 站在世衛大眾的看法就是說臺灣 臺北地方法院整個法官 這個法官的看法翻來覆去會有這樣的想法 合理喔 不定啦 這合理喔檢察官的思維 倒很一致倒很一致 他就認為你犯這個重罪 你就該收押所以呢 只要不是收押的 只要是拒保的我全部都是抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11359.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11382.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
倒是守得很 守得很住他的一個立場那這可是站在司法院 站在司法院你其實也沒辦法去干涉啦沒辦法去干涉 台灣特別地方法院每一個 不要說院長啦連這個整個審判的這些法官裡面每一個人各自有他 形成他的一個新政啦形成他一個新政可是呢 我覺得比較可惜的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11384.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11412.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
在司法節這一天號召了這麼多群眾那其實這個就是一種政治力對司法的一個對抗我的解讀也很合理啊廷長你不覺得這個就是本來就是政治力要對抗司法只是說他這個訴求合不合理合不合理可是呢一一一啊電鍋雞啊然後呢這個電鍋雞以後呢他好像在聲討賴清德啊這也不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11413.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11421.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我聽起來就太跳動了我請教部長說 偵辦台灣民眾黨黨主席柯文哲這個案子你曾經打過任何一通電話給城邦檢察官嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11423.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11440.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個我不會打電話你不會打電話總統會曾經跟你關切這個案子一定要怎麼處理嗎這個不會所以不會啊如果說賴總統他也沒有曾經針對過台灣民眾黨的黨主席柯文哲這個案子去指示你法務部部長他跟你說那這個111電鍋機要聲討賴清德總統然後呢聲討綠色威權綠色恐怖一樣這個也不通要聲討的應該要聲討你 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11450.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11466.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
你會不會沒中呢?今天我號召一大堆人上街頭我一定要來聲討候副部長 會不會你看得到啊就像你說的 總統也不怕你 也不跟你關切就要問問問話 到底你有跟人關切前一定要收押嗎?這樣而已啊我這個邏輯如果這樣講的話應該還比較通一點啦但是呢政治利基介入的時候就不用講證據了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11478.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11503.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
政敵我們去未了不跟你講政府的啦他是頭啊柯文哲是台灣民眾黨的老大黃國昌委員現在代理主席他聲援他的老大是合理的這像幫派在聲援一樣啊政治利益介入到最後就是雙方在做一個對抗啦你說我們在省這麼多預算的時候他來集會你說我們省預算他看你一百零四萬的這個整個翻譯費用那個都已經是小兒科啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11504.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11525.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
沒有這個案件的時候 你的預算全部都合理啦你抓了他的老大去以後 你所有的預算全部都不合理啦就變成這樣子啦 可是呢有這麼多人跑出來以後 我倒反而會覺得我們法務部跟司法院也要做一個反省喔真的要去做一個反省 第一個為什麼這麼多人跳出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11526.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11537.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那第二個就是說你們怎麼樣去回應怎麼樣去為自己辯護任何人執政台灣各個政黨執政到現在我看司法的公信其實都不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11539.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11565.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
都不高 很特殊很特殊我一直形容司法很脆弱所以我常常對司法委員我都表達支持要你們再去精進那對於我們的整個法務部很多我們法院我覺得不合理的地方我也會站在對立面可是像這種案件在司法節這麼多群眾上街頭的時候我覺得你們總要藉著這個機會跟社會大眾來做一個回應吧博定 你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11568.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11581.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
你們總要有立場啊對 我們是贊同委員的一個寶貴的意見我想有必要我們會適時的做一個回應應該要回應我認為司法院也該回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11583.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11609.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
廷長您的看法呢謝謝委員的指教那司法院在應該是在禮拜四當天就曾經發過一個新聞稿就針對說我們司法院立場還是捍衛我們的司法獨立這個是不可撼動的一些理念那我們希望大家給司法有一個純淨的審判空間以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11610.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11627.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
一個案件 尤其是司法 民眾常常都會有解讀會有歧義啊那你像在我們司法偵辦當中啊一個案子裡面尤其是重罪啊在地院跟高院來來去去啊這個都是司空見慣了啦地院的法官對整個案情的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11633.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11652.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
因為你說有羈押的有羈押的條件程度已經條條件都成就了觸犯了重罪那還有可能有逃亡有可能會驗明證據你為了保全證據或者為了保全被告有的法官做出來的是用拒保的方式來做一個替代可是呢有的法官就會認為說這不給你羈押我男女對整個後面的訴訟繼續來做進行看法會有所不同就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11662.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11667.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
大家都認為是重罪了社會大眾會認為壓壓壓尤其殺人犯罪我在職業的過程裡面啊那八十幾年那個時候只要是槍支啊全部都是壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11676.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11694.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
只要是重罪他就認為說把你放出去你那個有一支槍搞不好又生出哪裡又藏了一支槍所以只要犯了整個槍枝啊持有槍枝啊我看我的職業過程裡面啊八十幾年那段期間沒有一個案件說你持有槍枝又把你給放掉的沒有全部都羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11697.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11721.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
有啊 都符合積壓條件啊我們也常常當律師常常在講說你這個不一定有必要性啊可是法官就給你裁下去啊常常呢 高院也都支持啊可是現在走到現在台灣是一個民主國家民主的一個社會啊所以鍾佳斌委員他今天弄一個號召民眾上街頭來對抗司法審判者我認為這是政治力在對抗司法審判者所以他要大家來討論就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11724.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11748.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
是不是司法公正罪的一個現行犯他畫下了一個問號逐公大家來做一個討論那這個討論其實都值得我們法務部跟司法院好好做一個省事因為我長期一直在觀察我們整個司法民眾對他的一個信賴其實也不是台灣司法公信低啦全世界都不會太高啦 不會太高啦可是呢 我們也真的是低得比較離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11750.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11753.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
尤其是只要有高度的政治性的時候 常常會引起這麼多的爭議可是他的頭被抓去以後 你說去期待這個案子在社會上都沒有波折 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11768.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11794.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
也不容易啦 也不容易啦社會的公信我反而會覺得 為什麼會覺得說法務部要有立場司法院也要有立場你都沒有立場就代表111上街頭這些人的立場你悶不吭聲好像是在默認這也不行這個對整個司法的公信也是一種摧殘但是法務部我倒會覺得 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11795.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11804.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我曾經在這個地方就曾經示警這種高度政治性的偵查的過程裡面要特別謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11805.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11833.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
不管是證據的一個取得或者偵辦過程當中像我們不是也在這個地方也討論過偵查公不公開的問題我看也很多人砲轟你我也常常跟你講說那個公開洩密這些對象也未必來自於檢察官甚至於常常有一些案件檢察官去偵辦的時候你們還是落在媒體之後落在政治人物之後因為很多當事人會來爆料 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11834.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11845.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那我們有事爆料了我們就直接轉給你們那你們再去偵查那或者說人家去向報社投訴向週刊投訴人家掌握的資料都比你們還要多那你們就一直去查證查證查證查證查證到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11847.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11871.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
有時候你要窮盡整個司法之力不可能嘛但問題是你們去勾結出很多方向人家原始掌握的資料比你們還多就寫了一大堆但重點是偵查過程裡面啊常常被外面的媒體這樣把你完全命中這個確實是我們法務部這個地方啊這個被質疑的地方我們也真的有必要去改進這補充力看完 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11874.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11891.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個謝謝委員的寶貴意見,我想我們會努力那的確如果這種情形的話,我想我們會再加緊努力是啦,我們真的都不希望看到說整個司法這樣的一個公信力在因為政治力的一個介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11891.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11911.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那遭受外界這麼大的一個質疑啊尤其是這兩個禮拜其實在審預算 這個會議在審預算那我們 中交兵委員他也非常認真他就把一些法案也都放進來可是呢司法的公正啊 我都不覺得說修幾個條文啊司法就可以達到公正啊長期以來啊 長期以來司法被質疑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11918.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11933.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
像我們在講脫逃罪現在又要放進整個妨礙司法公正如果放兩三個條文進去司法就可以達到民眾的要求大家都對你非常信賴你多放幾個條文我雙手雙腳都給你贊成立法院馬上給你通過所以司法的公信要建立啊不容易啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11938.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11952.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
民眾他有他的要求但是司法院跟我們法務部這個地方確實這個嚴正的態度還有這個過程裡面減少民眾去多所知疑的地方這個真的是還有精進的地方要再努力了好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11954.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11969.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
好 謝謝莊委員 謝謝鄭部長所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11970.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11979.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
委員林思明所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆先處理會議時間上午會議時間繼續進行至議程所列事項處理完畢為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11986.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12008.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好那麼報告及詢談完畢現在進行討論事項先宣讀討論事項之提案條文另未立於討論審查法案時請主要列席機關代表一致主席台正前方首長席的位置就座那請宣讀提案條文如有修正動議亦請一併宣讀請我們可以移位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12010.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12024.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
討論事項律師法第九條條文修正草案行政院提案第九條除第二項修正為法務部核准發給律師證書後律師有下列情形之一者法務部應廢止其律師證書 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12026.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12043.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
第五条第一项第二款至第四款情形之一二余未加入律师工会实质行为有第五条第一项第一款或第八款情形之一另增订第三项条文为前项第二款情形保务部应征询全国律师联合会之意见 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12044.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12072.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
原第三項至第五項條文遞以為第四項至第六項條文並將第六項手續前段修正為律師於本法中華民國一百零九年一月十五日修正公佈之條文其餘未修正委員林一景等提案第九條同行政院提案委員吳佩義等提案第九條對照行政院提案除第六項手續中修正二字三除外其餘同行政院提案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12074.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12083.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
好 請問在場委員 因為修正條文只有一條 是不是我們大體跟足條就同時進行好 沒關係 讓他讀啊好 來 請專委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12085.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12106.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好 謝謝召委 我想今天的案有行政院的提案還有林一錦 吳佩玉等人都有針對律師法的第九條的一個提案我想最主要的重點就是說在法務部核准發給律師證書以後那如果律師在有我們這個本法就是律師法第五條第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12107.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12132.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
第一款的情況那這個部分呢其實他會一副律師懲戒委員會所以呢在這個現行的第二項法務部費署律師規定這個部分呢就沒有包括第五條第一項的一個第一款那實務上來看的話就是律師在非職業期間的犯罪行為是不是一副律師懲戒這個部分一直有一個疑慮那我想就今天這樣的一個提案我看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12133.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12151.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
也從第五條 律師法第五條它不管是從第二款到第四款這些情況把它加進去那最主要是第二款的部分未加入律師公會期間的行為有第五條第一項第一款跟第八款這個情況看起來我是表達贊同的一個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12153.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12174.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
好那麼請問機關代表要不要就本條文做補充說明請次長沒有我們我們尊重那個委員的意見好那因為現在委員呢有要陸續趕來途中我們就暫時等候委員人數到齊之後呢我們再繼續處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13715.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13743.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好 謝謝那請問委員會剛才我們有關於律師法第九條的提案條文那剛已經宣讀完畢 也經過討論那麼機關代表也並沒有補充那這裡呢 有一個部分要委員會這邊來進行處理就是我們的修訂條文當中有第六項 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13745.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13758.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那第六項呢那個打給司堯簽一下第六項的部分因為跟我們立法院所有的日期我們都是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13761.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13785.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我唸一遍 律師於本法中華民國108年12月13日修正之條文施行前有第五條第一項第一款到這個內容呢 跟現在大家看到的條文呢文字內容我們是維持目前的格式那目前我們立法院的格式呢都是使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13787.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13815.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
三讀修正後的這樣的文字那麼請問在場委員對於維持原來立法院條文修正的格式是否同意好那請那個委員簽一下好同意那我簽一下那簽名那另外呢我們原來的法案的說明我們就立法行政院提案立法院第四點刪除原第五點一列為第四點 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13816.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13845.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這裡好像寫少一個字,立法院提案,立法院什麼名?說明說明,來,資料在這裡,資料在這裡好,那,簽了簽了好,那我們就宣讀了,那張不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13848.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13872.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好第九條那麼照行政院提案修正後通過好來繼續本案主條已處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查文件以拟據審查報告提請院會公決那麼本案不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明出席說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13873.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13883.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
調次引述條文部分文字及法之用與授權主席及議事長員整理好 議程所列事項均已處理完畢本次會議到此結束 現在三會 謝謝大家 |