| IVOD_ID |
16464 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16464 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-2-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期第3次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第3次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-10T11:00:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-10T12:13:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:13:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609596cfdd819863a36c6be7668aa1d1ae718d20170ff19eea643655e319f2ef45e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-10T11:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第3次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「憲法訴訟法」修正第四條、第三十條及第九十五條條文覆議案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:00:00 - 12:13:00 |
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報告全院委員會我們現在繼續開會請秘書長報告出席人數報告全院委員會出席委員111人已足法定人數我們現在開會本次全院委員會是依照上午院會通過附議案審查時程之決定來辦理我們現在進行報告事項請秘書長宣讀第二會期第二次全院委員會議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1839.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1865.515 |
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宣讀立法院第十一屆第二會期第二次全院委員會議事錄時間中華民國一百三年十二月十日上午九十一分至十一時五十分下午十二時三十一分至四時五十三分十二月十一日上午九十至十一時五十六分下午五二時三十分至六時十七分十二月十二日上午九十至十一時五十二分下午二時三十分至三時五十四分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1866.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1895.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
地點本院一場出席委員陳委員 趙芝等一百十二人請假委員柯委員見名內席人員司法院大法官並為院長 副院長及大法官被提名人等七人主席院長韓國瑜副院長將啟程報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第二會期第一次全院委員會議事錄決定確定討論事項第一案決議提報院會以記名投票表決議宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1896.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1910.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告全院委員會我們針對第二會期第二次全院委員會議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們做以下決定第二會期第二次全院委員會議事錄確定我們現在進行討論事項請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1914.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1930.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
討論事項第一案行政院判為本院三讀通過修正憲法訴訟法第四條第三十條及第九十五條條文經研議確屬之案難行依憲法增修條文第三條第二項第二款規定以請本院負議案第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1931.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1950.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
總統府秘書長韓維本院通過修正憲法訴訟法第四條第三十條及第九十五條條文自請總統公佈案經行政院研議以其確屬之很難行以依憲法暫修條文第三條第二項第二款規定陳鳳總統何可依請本院附議案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1956.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1973.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
報告全院委員會依照上午院會決定我們以上兩岸全院委員會審查的時候我們不邀請行政院長列席說明由國民黨團推派三位民主進步黨團推派三位台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位每位發言五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1974.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2001.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在在進行各黨團代表發言之前向大家全院委員會報告今天中午我們準備麥當勞請大家準備起來我們首先請羅志強委員發言首先請羅志強委員發言黃珊珊委員請準備尊敬的韓國瑜院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2003.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2030.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
還有所有關心我們民主憲政的朋友新國會智庫委託區市民調公司在這個禮拜做出來的最新民調針對憲法訴訟法我們新修正的版本要求有十位大法官出席九位大法官同意才能夠做出違憲判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2032.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2057.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在這份最新的民調當中支持憲法訴訟法修正的有56.7%我要特別告訴我們賴清德特別告訴民進黨的朋友其中政黨傾向是支持民進黨的經過交叉分析也有54.5%的民進黨支持者 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2062.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2086.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
認為今天大法官要做出憲法判決必須有十人出席 九人同意賴清德 柯建民 民進黨你們不要再鬧了你們不要再鬼哭神嚎了人民的意志 民進黨支持者的意志一清二楚 不要再鬧了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2088.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2105.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當大法官在實質廢死判決當中告訴國人死刑要一字決的時候民進黨沒有反對啊民進黨每個都拍手叫好啊死刑要每個法官都同意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2106.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2125.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
可是憲法訴訟法15位大法官要求10位出席 9位同意民進黨就出來鬼哭神吼啦你們標準有沒有一致啊我們來看看在這兩個會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2128.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2153.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
當中我們看到大法官為什麼我們今天要用憲法訴訟法來採取審慎門檻來希望大法官尊重民主憲政尊重民意多數來進行憲法的判決因為大法官違背八成的反對廢除死刑的民意只為了民進黨黨綱加入廢死 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2155.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2175.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他就踐踏八成的民意做出實質廢死的判決歷次民調人民對於這樣的判決都非常不滿意針對民進黨倡議20年要做的國會改革要去約束官員說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2177.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2201.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
結果大法官也變成黨衛軍竟然可以打臉20年的民進黨只為了今天執政者的利益這些大法官在在顯示了一件事情憲法判決國家民主憲政之根本豈容大法官少數就能夠去恣意的踐踏多數的民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2202.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2227.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以才會有今天憲法訴訟法的修正那是合乎世界許多國家憲政慣例也合乎今天台灣民意的需要但是我們卻看到今天我們的柯建民也好 民進黨也好一直鬼哭神好地說 完了大法官會癱瘓了大法官會被癱瘓了 怎麼辦說得太好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2229.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2246.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
罵法官被癱瘓就是民進黨癱瘓的劉靜儀是誰否決的啊賴清德提名的劉靜儀只不過罵了民進黨你們就封殺他照民進黨的邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2251.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2279.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
今天大法官不能通過沒有辦法湊到十個人叫癱瘓大法官你民進黨就癱瘓大法官的禍首而事實上從民主憲政跟其他國家的憲政慣例也非常清楚根本沒有癱瘓這個問題十人大法官現在有八個在位賴清德總統只要你能夠願意尊重國會的多數黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2280.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2302.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你好好協商難道找不出兩位沒有綠色意志的大法官嗎所以在這邊真的拜託今天民進黨跟我們柯建民的鬼哭神嚎可以停了啦人民的意志很清楚請支持憲法訴訟法修正 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2305.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2310.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
謝謝羅志強委員的發言接下來請黃珊珊委員發言蔡議員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2319.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2342.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
院長還有全國的公民朋友我想大家都非常關心憲法訴訟法在立法院今天的覆議案這個案子民眾黨團在堅定維繫政府能夠正常運作的原則之下在黨團凝聚共識在野黨團各提出共同合作的版本讓憲法訴訟程序更為嚴謹更加謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2344.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2371.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
也取得了社會上更多的共識跟支持所以今天的復議案我們認為行政院提出來非常的遺憾重點是行政院長他對於憲法訴訟法也沒有辦法代表司法院也沒有辦法代表憲法法院所以我們認為他也沒有必要來立法院做相關的報告更何況之前也有行政院長沒有列席的復議案所以我們認為今天不是唯一的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2372.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2391.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
現在憲法訴訟法的運作其實非常的重要現行的原來的憲法訴訟法裡面有一個非常大的缺漏就是他把所有的判決裁定都定位成所謂的現有總額但是現有總額他並沒有所謂的下限到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2392.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2415.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所有的案子都可以在現有種的情況下做出判決也就是說像現在只有八席那這八席三分之二出席 二分之一通過只要三個大法官就可以做成一個憲法判決這個影響到的是整個國家的體制還有相關的法律的穩定性更重要的是少數大法官做成的決定可能攸關這個國家未來的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2418.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2429.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
原來的憲法訴訟法造成可能沒有下限的大法官人數作出憲法判決完全沒有規定所謂的違憲宣告的人數下限這是全世界都沒有的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2431.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2448.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在日本15個大法官至少要9個參與判決韓國9位大法官至少要7位美國最高法院9位大法官至少要6位出席判決捷克跟我們一樣大概是15個大法官至少要有10席出席判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2449.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2475.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
德國有16個大法官分兩庭每一庭八位至少要六位參與判決最重要的判決甚至要三分之二同意也就是說違憲宣告是非常重要重大的決策這影響了國家的體制還有相關人民的權益所以在違憲宣告的憲法法院判決是非常非常重要所以立法機構做出相關嚴謹且莊嚴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2478.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2497.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
判決的下限人數這是立法院必須有的職權台灣民眾黨的版本在這次的修法裡面非常清楚的做了幾個重要的宣示第一個我們決定了參與判決的最低人數第二個參與判決之後最低的違憲宣告的表決門檻第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2499.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2518.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為現有總額常常會因為大法官的缺額而造成現有總額的不確定所以我們要求總統應該在兩個月之內補足他的提名第四個如果很嚴重的情況就是像有些案子大法官迴避人數過多的時候我們也要有相關的補救機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2518.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2532.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
也就是說這次憲法訴訟法的修正是補足了原來憲法訴訟法裡面對於缺額以及迴避過多的情況下造成的少數大法官決定相關的判決內容我們做出了相關的補救措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2534.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2548.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
原來的憲法訴訟法沒有就這些規範有任何的處理所以可能會造就所謂的真正少數的大法官決定了非常重要的判決而總統也沒有相關的補提名機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2549.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2570.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
造成了總統想提名就提名不想提名就不提名的情況非常的嚴重只要他可以控制大法官的人數只要他可以控制大法官的比例他就可以控制大法官判決的內容所以我們認為總統不能夠代付職權尤其是這一次的大法官提名的人選被立法院否決更 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2571.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2591.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
下一步總統必須在兩個月之內提名新的大法官這一次他必須要提超然獨立專業客觀大多數人民可以認可的大法官來參與所謂立法院的統一選行使如果還是像這次一樣提出他們的顏色提出他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2592.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2622.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
意識形態提出跟他相關的立場的大法官沒有辦法通過立法院的同意也沒有辦法行使大法官的職權這是總統帶頭讓憲法法庭沒有辦法運作所以我想賴清德總統最重要的是要立刻提名的新的大法官還是必須要秉持所謂的超然獨立的立場所以這次的憲法訴訟法修正我們謝謝在野黨團一接著合作讓台灣走出新的歷史 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2627.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2654.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言接下來請蔡易瑜委員發言許巧欣委員請準備主席各位同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2655.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2675.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們現在在處理由行政院針對憲法訴訟法立法院通過的法律的附議案我們可以請求我們每一位立法院的同仁我們大家都有憲法義務這個憲法義務就是我們必須要捍衛人民的權利人民憲法上的一個權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2677.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2700.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但是以今天憲法訴訟法它的條文的一個架構它必須要有十個大法官才能組成憲法法庭違憲審查必須要有九個大法官才能做出違憲的一個判決也就是說依現行只有八個大法官的情況之下沒有辦法組成十個大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2700.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2728.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
也就是說人民的向憲法法庭提出救濟的機會會在這個法案生效之後這個救濟的機會就不見了所以既然我們立法院我們看到這樣的一個危機行政院已經提出了這樣的復議我們希望等一下透過投票的時候我們所有的立法委員一定要投下贊成票投下贊成票 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2729.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2734.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
讓行政院復議因為復議案是讓立法委員有一個彌補錯誤的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2737.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2760.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我在剛剛早上的發言的時候我有講到會計法的修法當時的修法為了要處理公教人員的特別費或者是他研究費用當時少了公教的這個教少了教授的部分所以立法委員在最快的時間內完成復議把錯誤補上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2764.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2780.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以本來這個復議就是讓我們彌補錯誤我們不能讓未來台灣是沒有憲法法庭我們不能讓未來人民的救濟就這樣斷送在我們這一次違憲的一個立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2781.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2797.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
而且這樣的一個立法我們也造就了有史以來最退步的一個憲法法庭我們看到從過去到現在1952年的大法官會議他們違憲判決所要的比率是50% |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2800.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2822.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
1959年違憲判決所需要的比例是75%1993年是44%2022年是50%在這一次藍白修二的憲法訴訟法它依照如果是只有10個人10個人出席要有9個人才能同意它的違憲的難度是90% |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2826.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2835.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
比戒嚴時代還要困難的一個釋憲的申請然後這一次的修法本質上也已經違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2836.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2855.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
本質上違憲是為什麼呢我們去看到藍白所修的憲法訴訟法第30條第30條的架構程度我剛剛講的要有10個人才能組成會議要違憲審查是9個人那他的條文又有講到說合憲的部分是7個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2857.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2886.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以這樣的一個條文基本上藍白是站在自己身為立法委員的立場去思考這樣的修法所以藍白國民黨跟民眾黨他們希望我修出來的法案不要被大法官申請不要被憲法法庭判決違憲所以要有九個人九個大法官才能夠說違憲合憲只要七個人就是所謂過半之後七個人合憲七個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2887.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2911.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個矛盾點就是說國民黨民眾黨只想到自己再申請釋憲沒有想到的是如果人民要申請釋憲站在人民的角度我要申請釋憲我要九個人才會變成違憲七個人合憲所以人民既然申請釋憲他是希望憲法法庭判決違憲結果違憲比較困難合憲比較簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2916.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2932.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以你站在立法院跟站在人民的角度不一樣結果你創造出了一個合憲跟違憲是不同難度的一個判決的一個態樣所以在這個情況之下條文本身就構成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2935.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2947.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
迴憲所以我們也再一次的呼籲也許我們今天的表決我們民進黨我們51票都投下去我們還是無法阻擋藍白還是執意要這樣的迴憲亂政 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2949.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2960.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們也希望未來我們的大法官可以依大法官室371號601號繼續來捍衛台灣的權利不可以就這樣讓國民黨 讓民眾黨扣押下去我們拜託大家 人蝦都不一樣我們全部投降幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2973.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2980.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
谢谢蔡议员的发言接下来我们请徐巧兴委员发言人钟嘉斌委员请准备 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2988.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3008.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
民進黨不斷告訴大家說憲法訴訟法會影響到人民的釋憲說99%要釋憲的人都是由人民來申請的但他卻不告訴大家真正能夠通過釋憲申請的只有1%到2%其中大多都是民進黨提的釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3010.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3038.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我講一個釋憲給大家聽誰的釋憲通過了呢卡神卡神楊蕙如本人曾對政府機關也就是大阪辦事處的處長這個蘇建這個處長這個大阪事務處被依侮辱執罪犯判刑五個月得一顆罰金定業結果呢他跑去申請釋憲然後呢釋憲挑戰成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3039.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3044.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以我要講的事情是我們的大法官侮辱公務員他們說這是合憲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3046.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3072.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們的大法官他們對於民眾的感受是完全不在乎的在台灣八成的民眾是反對廢死可是我們的大法官的解釋卻做出了死刑實質上廢死的這樣子的一個判決也讓我們在各家的民調機構當中看到了大家對大法官對司法的不信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3074.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3093.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以今天憲法訴訟法要求的是什麼是要有一個更謹慎的機制讓大法官去聆聽人民的聲音而不是聆聽特定黨派或是特定人的聲音我要再講一次你們所說的人民釋憲是什麼樣的人民釋了什麼憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3094.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3108.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
卡神杨慧如逼得人家自伤离开了人世在这种情况之下本来已经被判刑结果她申请释宪之后说无法公务人员是合宪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3109.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3137.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
然後呢也他被定驗的案件被廢棄發回所以我們的大法官到底是在保護什麼樣的人我們的大法官現行之下他在保護一位傷害公務員讓他痛苦到自己傷害自己的性命離開之後人家去告了楊蕙如他去申請了釋憲大法官說你沒有錯所以呢最後所有的定驗的判決都沒有事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3138.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3160.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我想要問這一位外交官的在天之靈有人在乎嗎當時沸沸揚揚的大家都在為這位外交官出氣的時候人民是怎麼想的大法官有聽到嗎五六公務員在大法官的眼裡只要是民進黨的好朋友去提示線的可以申請過關甚至可以被判核限 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3162.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3188.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那這樣子的大法官不需要一個更嚴謹的制度讓大家來聆聽民眾的意見嗎不需要更謹慎的去思考民意之所需嗎所以如果今天我們的司法體系包含司法檢調還有我們的大法官都只聽命於特定的政黨特定的執政黨成為全法官的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3189.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3215.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
難道不需要憲法訴訟法裡面有更嚴格的標準讓他們在做出判決的時候更仔細的去聆聽人民的意見再做出決定嗎所以我認為憲法訴訟法不是為了某一個政黨不是為了某一個法律而設定的而是要求大法官不要做恐龍大法官大法官要好好的聆聽民間的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3216.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3237.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
不然以後現在是死刑看起來核限但是實質上是廢死那請問下一次呢這次過了關下次再有廢死團裡再去申請一次的時候是不是那時候他們就要說推翻過去的直接宣布死刑核限廢死核限了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3238.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3264.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
是不是呢?這個有符合我們多數台灣人的想法嗎?所以當我們要求更多的大法官共同做出決議才算數的時候我們是當人民法官要求大法官要更加的接力氣要更加的去思考民意要把民意跟法律兩者結合在一起我們國家的公民民主社會才是真正的救抗 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3265.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3292.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
而我們作為立法委員不就是要接洽司法的公平性以及人民的聲音的中間的橋樑嗎所以國民黨這一次我們所做的事情是希望連結一個好的橋樑讓大家能夠更相信法治但沒想到很多人在反對的時候總是在扯政黨政治其實只要賴清德總統兩個月內提出好的人選出來不就能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3298.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3325.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
謝謝許巧欣委員的發言接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言翁曉琳委員請準備主席 在下長的委員先進很遺憾的今天各位坐在這裡大家知道我們整個上午的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3327.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3346.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
從光復的復的復裔處理到現在翻復的復的復裔大家知道在處理什麼程序嗎我先就三個部分來講第一個讓現場的媒體了解我們今天上午的報告事項才通過了行政院喊請要復裔的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3347.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3373.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
也通過了總統府秘書長函請總統府要移請新立法院來附議的案子附議什麼附議憲法訴訟法本院在之前通過的三讀法案列入了報告事項之後照說院長就要請院會來決定既然行政院代表憲法機關提出了這樣的附議案到底哪裡自愛難行根據憲法正規條文哪裡自愛難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3375.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3400.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但是接下來我們的處理方式是直接用國民黨的多數將這樣的一個報告事項認為是一個形同的同意的決議把它翻案說要重新來討論討論的就是我不是說不接受這個復議案而是什麼把復議案相關的報告的期程給定案了包括現在本席在這邊依政黨比例331的討論內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3403.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3429.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好 就算是這樣決定我也沒意見但是剛剛的決定居然把行政院長來說明為什麼行政院要移請復育這個地方省略到了所以到目前為止我剛剛聽了國民黨兩位委員的發言你們知道行政院為什麼要復育嗎是哪裡自愛難行嗎連我們復育的標的都不清楚 理由都不了解你要怎麼來做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3431.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3436.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好這是第一個連為什麼行政院認為哪裡自然難行都不清楚我們要討論什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3438.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3465.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
其次第二個我也很開心的聽到了民眾黨黃珊珊委員的發言因為之前的討論憲法訴訟碼的二三途過程當中的大體討論出了討論我不曾看到這些相關的提案者起來為他的條文內容做說明反而是我們不能指摘這些條文內容有多麼荒謬接下來我就這些荒謬的理由為什麼要提醒富裕為什麼是自愛難行我告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3466.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3488.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
有沒有違憲 留給大法官解釋但是是我自愛難行 我們來看一看本來社會各界以我們的委員討論的是第四條第四條對於憲法法庭審理規則由司法院定之第一項第二項前項規則由全體大法官一決之第二項第三項翁小林委員的提案他要求把現有名額全部改為法定原額 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3490.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3508.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
從來沒有這樣做過整個邏輯上是矛盾的現有的原額就是法定總額沒有法律上的規定因此最後的再修正動議放棄了第四條這樣的修改訂出總統必須在現期內重啟大法官但是透過了第30條的規定將黃珊珊委員剛剛講的那些的額數問題通通放進30條判決跟裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3517.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3538.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
但是不要忘了喔 憲法訴訟法當中 關於判決跟裁定的還有43條為暫時處分的裁定75條 宣告彈劾成立的裁定還有第80條 宣告政黨解散的這樣的一個決定這些散見在我們憲法訴訟法中 各個條文的規定裡面明白的規定了 評定的額數 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3540.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3548.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
結果修正動域很倉促的為了滿足來不及修這三條直接寫在我們三十條通過的第四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3550.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3575.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
直接說適用之這下大家頭大了原來這43條75條80條都有對額數規定現在你用30條的第二項第三項涵蓋著把這些條文的規定重新覆蓋上去能夠這樣做嗎原來的條文有規定你又用30條去含色後面把它修改這樣規定這就是自愛男性的理由啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3577.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3596.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
本席我們對目前剛剛黃珊珊所持的額數問題覺得可以討論有沒有違憲交給大法官去審判但是對於我們通過的粗糙的條文本來試圖用第四條一條包含條款涵蓋全部現在用三十條的第四項含設了三個條文不同的額數規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3598.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3623.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
請問一下 若真的大法官拿到這本《憲法訴訟法》他要適用的時候 怎麼適用啊這就是自愛難行的理由啊各位媒體的先進 各位社會的廣大社會大眾或許有法學專業者對這樣的意見有不同的看法沒有關係 這就是我們認為自愛難行的理由為什麼不請行政院長來說明荒謬啊 立法院連自己搞什麼鬼 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3630.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3636.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言接下來我們請翁曉林委員發言吳思瑤委員請準備院長在座的各位委員各位媒體朋友各位全國的朋友們大家好今天我們在這裡針對行政院所提出的復議案即將要進行投票表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3660.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3678.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
剛剛鍾嘉斌委員說憲法訴訟法的修法是搞不懂的事情是沒有經過充分討論的事情我在這邊要跟各位報告憲法訴訟法從一開始由本人提案之後就經過社會上面廣泛的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3679.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3693.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那麼在司法法治委員會裡面還有在經過之後的二讀三讀其實都有不斷的討論跟發言這個案子非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3694.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3720.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
非常清楚他就是參考西方先進民主國家裡面對於憲法法庭要求要有一個最低出席的大法官人數才能夠參與審議才能夠做成裁判為什麼在西方國家認為是一個好的制度只要是我們把它引進到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3721.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3736.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
民進黨政府就認為這是一個立法擴權認為這是一個毀憲亂政的制度實在是不可思議從上個會期我們針對國會改革法案裡面所制定的國會調查權 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3739.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3758.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
藐視國會罪的處罰相關的規定這些都是在西方國家早就行之有年的制度可是偏偏引進到台灣之後立刻也是被行政院附議被大法官又宣告是嗜血我們現在看到民進黨政府的所作所為 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3759.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3770.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
對於明明是一個好的一個憲政制度的改革強力的杯葛這個已經引起了其他國家在看笑話了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3771.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3791.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
大家知道不管是日本法國以及我們這次憲法訴訟法最後通過的是參考像是捷克的版本要求大法官要最少要10人出席9人才可以做成宣告法律違憲的判決這在別的地方早就這個都是這麼做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3792.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3815.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
以我們現在大法官在憲法裡面規定要有15個人才就是我們大法官憲法明定要有15個人才可以運作可是當我們大法官出現多數缺額只剩下8位大法官的時候我們人民放心將這麼重要的案子放給那些少數的大法官就可以做成憲法判決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3818.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3834.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
行政院這次提出的復議案有很多部分是只講了一半沒有講了下半段確實我們現在憲法訴訟的案件極大多數都是由民眾申請99%的案件都是由人民申請憲法訴訟可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3838.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3865.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
被駁回的也就是有100件人民申請的訴訟案件裡面有97件都是不受理駁回大法官頂多是在這100件案件當中受理那兩三件行政院說現在這個在憲法法庭代審的有480幾個477件的這個事先案件大家知道這是累積多少年才有的事先案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3866.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3891.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
大法官不积极的审理就算了那么还想要用这种少数大法官就做出可能会宣告一个重要的法律案违宪或是剥夺人民这个权利的这样的宪法判决我们能够容忍吗我们能看得下去吗所以这一次宪法诉讼法大法官改革法案其实重要的目的就是要健全 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3892.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3914.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
整个宪法法庭的制度这个没有蓝绿之分不管未来谁这个执政然后大法官的组成不管是蓝的多或是绿的多或是白的多这么不分蓝绿的我们就是要求一个完整的健全的宪法法庭的制度那么民进党那么他们现在对于 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3916.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3930.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
國會所通過的任何的法案只要是不合他們的意不滿他們的意就提起復議然後定而申請釋憲這個已經造成台灣憲政民主極為重要的危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3931.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3958.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我们实在是不愿意看到台湾的宪政机关继续对抗对立下去我们在这里恳请全国的民众都能够支持我们这次的大法官改革我们待会也会即将要去投出仍然是赞成我们原来法案的决议谢谢谢谢翁晓琳委员的发言接下来请吴思瑶委员发言 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3964.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3990.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
主席 各位同仁我要來駁斥一下假訊息喔榮總沒有麻疹的大流行這是假訊息 人民不要恐慌但是呢 現在的立法院卻是有著違憲上癮的流行病而且一再的蔓延 一再的擴散這是一屆最愛違憲的立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3991.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4020.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我接替在翁曉琳委員之後來發言我真的有很深的感觸提案來癱瘓憲法法庭他說這是司法改革要摧毀國家的憲法被他說成了是在守護憲法這就是一種違憲上癮的流行病傳染病非常的危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4021.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4049.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
從上個會期國會擴權法案被宣判違憲之後很清楚的立法院要自治院際之間是平等相違的立法院沒有這麼大國會優惠並不存在所以立法院不能夠來破壞其他憲法機關的核心權力領域的形式但是大法官的違憲宣判沒有讓在野黨的委員反省自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4050.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4056.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
民意的反撲也沒有讓藍白的委員感到害怕反而變本加厲繼續違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4060.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4081.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們看看從立法院職權行使法到才化法到選罷法到警察人員人事條例到原住民的組織法國會一再的自肥擴權國會一再的掏空國家財政國會一再的沒收人民權利國會甚至讓年改走回頭路 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4083.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4103.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
一修二修都是二修這些違憲的二修的法律猶如一把把的利刃刺進台灣民主的心臟現在討論的憲法訴訟法就是違憲的重中之重 惡中之惡因為它等同於是實質的違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4106.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4130.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
只有民進黨在反對限訴法嗎?不!民團站出來反對法律專業界從修法前站出來遊行到今天要進行復議案之前超過數百位的法學專家再次連署呼籲立法院應當支持行政院的復議案收回違憲的惡法 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4131.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4147.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
為什麼藍白的委員嘴上說憲法沒有顏色但是卻在行使自己政黨的利益藍白愛維憲 藍白怕事憲所以藍白合力來摧毀憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4149.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4164.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
行政院當然有權利提出憲訴法的附議案因為行政院要守護人民的權利大家都說了99%的憲法訴訟案是人民的救濟的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4165.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4182.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
第二作為最高的行政機關所有的法律如果不可行 至愛難行基於捍衛行政院自身的憲法忠誠義務不受剝奪行政院當然要提起復議來尋求救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4186.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4203.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以說呢 剛剛翁小玲委員繼續把她一直說錯的事情繼續再說極端少數來做違憲宣判的案例從經驗上 從學理上都不存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4204.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4217.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
美國的最高法院大法官有九位同樣是三分之二評議二分之一同意在美國沒有人說這是極端案例這會危及憲政 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4220.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4239.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
德國聯邦憲法法院有16位大法官但是分成兩庭一庭只有8位大法官比我們15位大法官更少同樣是三分之二評議二分之一做成違憲的宣判在德國也沒有人說這是摧毀憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4241.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4266.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以藍白就是為了政治的意識形態怕違憲就來毀憲而再一次的程序不正義今天的復議案行政院長沒有辦法來說明報告因為藍白不敢面對社會不敢接受挑戰懇請大家支持行政院的復議案退回惡法 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4270.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4290.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言報告全院委員會各黨團推派發言代表均已發言完畢行政院所提之復議案已經審查完畢我們現在做以下決議提報院會以記名投票表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4292.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4305.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
向全院委員會報告依照本日上午院會所作決定全院委會審查完畢之後同日改開院會進行復議案記名投票表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4307.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4328.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們定於本日下午2點30分改開院會請各位委員屆時出席院會進行附議案之記名投票表決本次會議進行到此為止現在全院委員會散會 |