| IVOD_ID |
164635 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164635 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T14:10:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T14:24:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da3ee2b30530d60f2534f1f132b5784e0488cc85b2f3b90c2255e27d19183d88005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:10:50 - 14:24:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
五、委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
【僅詢答】） |
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好 主席謝謝 麻煩請洪森漢部長請部長部長好 後衛好部長 千呼萬喚使出來今天上午您終於有鬆口講是說兩三個月內可以提出外送員專法的勞動部版本行政版本 是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.021 |
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40.533 |
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對 行政部門的版本希望在三個月內那本席也說今天上午我在提案說明的時候就講這個議題真的不是這兩天的議題不是這兩個禮拜的議題而是已經長達了數年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.27 |
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過去一直講說外送員專法如果說指引能夠保障的話當然指引但是就是因為有太多的面向的問題是指引沒有辦法含瓜的而外送員的人口數也越來越多非常多的委員今天從上午到現在把各樣態的問題都告知大家大家也都有看到不管是餐廳面臨的問題不管是外送員面臨的問題甚至消費者面臨的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.004 |
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84.879 |
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这些都跟我们现在讨论息息相关也因此我们才会想是说那是不是有一个专法能够含刮更多的面向给予公权力来适时的要求让各自都有权利跟义务应该要负责 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.88 |
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105.69 |
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是不是是我們的確認為其實可以有更多規範化空間甚至有更多政策跟法規工具可以使用因為這裡面確實涉及到多元的利害相關方好那這也是為什麼其實很需要跨部會的分工所以遲到總比不到好啦今天願意也說要三個月不過本席提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.21 |
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135.08 |
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因為今天既然我們的召委已經排案了我們希望是能夠趕快進入到竹條審查的一個流程而如果說行政部門一拖再一拖還是沒有辦法拿出來的話我們也希望在竹條審查的時候能夠針對竹條來做一個比較詳細的一個討論那更是甚至如果說有取得共識的我們就可以先行如果說沒有取得共識送出委員會的時候在草野協商的時候也一定要拿出 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
149.215 |
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勞動部的態度這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告齁其實因為我這邊就很誠實的講因為這個法其實他的修訂他的挑戰的確比過去傳統的勞動法規來的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以包括他的整个的立法的架构跟立法的技术这件事情我们是非常愿意跟委员来做好好的讨论那尤其是在这个法规的修订上面我自己是秉持这里面绝对没有什么分什么党派的那我觉得能够把这个法规就像委员说的真的是一段时间下来大家终于 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
覺得也可以進入到一個好好討論的階段把它給修得好然後讓討論的空間能夠拉大我覺得這是我們對於這個法規我覺得最基本的態度是這樣子的所以我們希望有機會可以好好的討論那尤其因為剛剛就像剛剛前面幾個委員都講到它涉及到的行政部門的面向真的很廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
216.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
今天如果没有其他部会的协助的话比方说平台对消费者平台对商家的这些业务上面的事情要劳动部来处理挑战也非常大就算你要我做我可能也做不好因为这在劳动部的执掌上面所以这里面的部会分工怎么处理的好我认为是未来这个法能不能运作的好的最关键的点会是在这里 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
217.668 |
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244.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以我總結一句因為部長新人上任也已經快一年的時間了那過去為什麼我們一而再再而三希望push有所謂的行政院版本的外送原專法出來遲遲沒有辦法出來第十屆第九屆就有討論了當時執政黨國會多數過半想推就可以推沒有到現在今年上半年度也沒有看到任何的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我自己很不喜歡用這個名詞啊但我現在越來越相信了真的是大罷免大烙賽之後才能夠回復正常因為回復正常才能夠真的公開理性的來討論是說我們是不是要為現在還沒有照顧到的族群照顧到的民眾來好好的研究怎麼樣來照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
來部長兩個議題我直接就請教因為上午有看到你有答詢的時候講是說希望薪資的一個保障是外送員所在意的嘛對不對你有講說每一單平台單筆扣運費應該要高於最低工資薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
289.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
314.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我沒有理解錯誤吧因為這個是不是扣運費我剛剛看到的媒體的新聞報導直接講平台單筆希望未來的薪資最低的保障是平台單筆扣運費之後要高於最低工資薪資不是什麼扣運費我沒有說扣運費你的原文是什麼你的意思是什麼應該是說接下來交通部他會透過公路法來訂定運價的上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那这个上限处理的是平台跟我们期待的就是外送员期待的就是说他至少他的薪资保障因为其实我们看到像7月的时候也有平台业者说要调整外送员的报酬结果计算之后每单就减少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
当时劳动部也讲是说应该要维持一定的一个收入所以说我们最低的薪资到底会定在什么我跟委员说明因为这里面会有好几个费用的项目所以我们比较是用综合性的报酬然后来看待这件事情因为你只管他一项他可以涨出其他项目所以综合性的报酬认为每一单是要高于最低工资的时间对 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
每一單對每一單所以綜合性的報酬他每一單未來我們的院版本裡面是會有外送員會高於現在的時薪190元以上明年就是196明年就196換算啦這是換算我的意思是說因為他會涉及到他跑的每一單他可能一個小時接兩單那就是他要保證他他可以賺到300多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這就是你們沒有講清楚的地方也是上午很多人訝異的地方嘛我跟你講是每一單所以我剛剛一直在確認你未來的願板是每一單就會有高於最低工資的時薪我跟委員說當然是實職的服務期間就是實職的服務期間然後每一單然後他的報酬要高於最低工資的時薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以是不是就跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
445.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
外界理解又不同了因為你今天上講其實說實在話啦我剛剛有看到有媒體寫那個標題是但是那個標題並不是扣運價並不是是是部長所以說在這是為什麼我們今天你講你的然後我理解我的然後可能有一般民眾看到又理解他的會有不同就是因為現在還沒有版本嘛如果有版本的話我們直接白紙黑字就看得很清楚了第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
447.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
保險的一個部分也是大家最關心的因為就說這個之前我講嘛要他們又不算是傳統的雇傭關係又不算是派遣關係也因此是不是在折衷要找一個第三種關係但不管怎麼樣什麼關係他是實質外送員有跟平台有一定的程度的互相的合作工作那外送員也應該要有一定的程度的一個保險保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
線型他是以所謂的團體傷害線來cover而且是規範的時間是接單上跟接單下才有cover的時間那外送員一直講是說其實接單上跟接單下你才有保險的時間但是我上線跟下線的時候我其實就已經開始工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
部長你的一個方向你覺得我們認為第一個我們認為要有商業保險商業保險就是基本的就不用多說是商業保險還是要有勞工保險我先講讓我說明第一個是要商業保險這是一定要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第二個因為外送員會特別在意的事情是治安安全的問題所以我們認為其實僱主有必要要為外送員在這個尤其是職災保險的部分要幫忙來做保費的給付職災保險對那就是連包含到我們所謂的勞保囉災保跟勞保不是一樣的事情對那我們認為主要外送員但是因為現在有的商業保險提供的是所謂的第三責任險以及團體傷害險 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們會朝向第一個他一定要有傷害保險第二個傷害保險以外那尤其是外送員會特別在意的是安全上的問題是這我們都理解我們會這樣保障他的安全是用災保所以還要再增加災保對好那另外還有災保保障的時間平台要幫忙付保費好那保障的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
總是不能像以前有勞動部長講出金句說手握方向盤開車才算是在工作那只要手沒有握方向盤的話就不算工作那就要休息那一樣現在比較荒謬的地方是他上線的時候還不算在投保時間是要他要接到單才算是投保時間那接完單他送完之後又不算投保時間可是他持續在上線中 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
594.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
617.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以你未來就會變是什麼 就是我在上線的這個過程裡面我開啟了APP 只要沒有人給我單 我沒有接單的時候我就是要自己想辦法 自己要屈胸避疾啊因為被撞到不能被保險但是接了單之後 送單的過程有保險範圍那送完單之後 我要再等下一單的中間你又要屈胸避疾啊現行狀況是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
632.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告 目前就是平台外送員都可以依照他的勞動關係來加保那如果說他勞動關係加保就他自己要付費啊對目前部長說請教您是勞動法務司嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
653.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
保險 因為我說的事情是我們認為部長講搖頭然後結果我們的這個美女司長一直在點頭我們認為應該要有災保的保障那我認為這個災保的保費應該要由平台來出是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
653.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
674.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個我已經確認了我剛講是下一個就保險的期間現行我們了解的狀況是不是我剛講的他是接單的過程才有算他的保險因為平台也沒有保險平台也是跟外面的保險公司簽這個保費簽這個保單然後提供給他的外送員嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
674.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
695.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
跟我們報告目前我們在職業公會加保他就是有工作的時候他就去加保是但他現在認定的工作就是說你接單才算工作不是就是說他不一定是接這個單他只要是外送員的工作的話他就可以去職業公會我們理解是這樣嘛但現在我就講是說可能我們現在有幾大平台業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
696.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
708.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
七大八大對不對但其中一個最大的那個平台業者他現在給外送員的狀況就是你接單才算是保險的範圍但你上線的時候都還不算 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
709.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
730.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
部長的意思是說所以我現在才沒關係來我提供這樣子也讓你們知道說實際的狀況那未來在討論竹條的時候我們針對過去有想不夠到想不周全想不周到的地方我們來補齊我沒有說要一定是外送平台一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
732.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
756.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
對付他不可但就如同我今天早上講的現在的狀況是一強三弱消費者外送員跟餐廳是相對弱勢外送平台相對強勢那我們希望是透過我們的一個調和頂賴以及讓大家都能夠充分責任權利之後四足鼎立大家都能夠獲得一定的權益跟保障以及照顧我跟委員說明第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
758.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
782.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
確實因為外送員或外送平台很特別的勞動關係讓相關的社會保險的規範它跟過去傳統的雇傭關係或者是傳統的一般的承攬關係很不一樣所以它這中間其實它會有一個過去大家比較不那麼熟悉的一個模糊的地帶所以我們現在的確是在這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
783.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
804.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
雇佣關係跟承攬關係之間我們要去摸索出一套適用於這個工作型態該有的社會保險的狀態這就我講我們之後討論的時候沒有問題我們也希望這個事情可以很大家很理性的然後我們就可以很直接在這個上面大家交換意見好我還是強調我對事不對人所以最後暖心一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
805.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
821.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
部長 上禮拜 10月18號 生日快樂好不好 我們一起努力繼續加油 為外送員 為餐廳 為消費者打造良好的外送關係 謝謝謝謝 洪孟凱委員謝謝部長生日快樂蔡宜宇委員 蔡宜宇委員 蔡宜宇委員不在徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈委員不在 |