| IVOD_ID |
16461 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16461 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
27 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-09T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-09T16:59:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:29:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc5e814c1e1875e51d9b5fa2f296a93534529fa0cca45d562793913e0bd958c9335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分。
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「法務部矯正機關作業基金」收支部分。
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「毒品防制基金」收支部分。
四、繼續審查法務部函送財團法人臺灣更生保護會、財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會114年度預算書案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 16:59:00 |
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原來是 |
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1860.987 |
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1882.272 |
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我們現在人數還不夠 所以我們先稍微等一下不過法務部這邊 我有一個問題我不知道是不是法務部看不起我我這次所有動機案 法務部都沒有派人來 大家來溝通我有收到報告 但沒有一個人來跟我溝通過我的任何一個案子所以我說法務部不可以這樣 不可以看不起我們立委 對不對 |
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1889.511 |
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1915.246 |
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因為我這次所有的動機還沒有半個人來跟我們討論跟昭偉報告因為國會組這邊給我們的訊息是說委員很忙所以有叫我們交書面給他就好了可能我們溝通上有點失誤那跟委員做抱歉我們一直在等啊我不在的時候我的助理也在等但是法務部完全沒有派任何一個人來有續約時間所以才有交書面給昭偉我想我們再檢討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1916.807 |
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1937.109 |
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好 我們再接 跟趙委抱歉這樣子因為我們很多 我們這次動機安就是我這邊有好幾件嘛那好幾件的話是不是大家來溝通一下是不是我們哪裡有弄錯譬如說我們對AI系統的使用我們我們知道的跟我們拿到的數據有點落差那這時候可能法務部你們是不是要來溝通一下 好不好 |
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2514.045 |
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2542.828 |
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報告委員會初席委員五人已讀法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開始開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第二會期司法及法治委員會第26次全體委員會議議事錄行在中華民國114年1月8日星期三上午九十二分至十二時二十分下午一時三十六分至二時三十六分地點本院紅樓302會議室初席委員羅委員志強等11人列席委員王委員易川等7人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2543.288 |
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2571.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
列席官員 司法院副秘書長王梅英等人主席中招久遠嘉賓報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項繼續審查司法院函情審議稅務行政事件審理法草案及行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案決議一 稅務行政事件審理法草案第十條及第二十七條軍戰保留第十一條保留送運會處理本案令定期繼續審查二 行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案令定期繼續審查宣讀完畢 |
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2576.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2578.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
請問各位對像是會議事務有無錯誤或遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2580.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2604.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
沒有議事錄確定我們接著介紹到場委員跟列席官員首先我們介紹羅志強委員鍾嘉斌召委陳俊宇委員接著我們介紹列席官員法務部部長鄭部長鄧明謙部長法務部政次黃士傑政次還有法務部長次黃謀信長次好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2608.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2623.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
其餘列席的機關代表不再足以介紹請參與名單並列入公報記錄那本日議程排定討論事項繼續審查一四年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分等事案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2624.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2651.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
前今一三年十二月十九日本會期本會第二十次前提委員會會議報告及詢答完畢決議令定期繼續審查預算提案於十二月二十四日中午十二時截止修建願以今日繼續審查現在進行討論事項先請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項個案之全部預算數及所收委員提案宣讀時間約二十四分鐘請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2655.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2679.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
討論四項第一項一百十四年度法務部主管稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第九十八項法務部一百三十萬三千元第九十九項司法官學院二萬六千元第一百項法醫研究所四萬九千元第一百零一項廉政署一千二百八十六萬元第一百零二項僑政署及所屬八百九十四萬二千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2680.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2686.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第103項行政執行署其所屬232,000元第104項最高檢查署劣數第105項台灣高等檢查署151萬6千元第106項台灣高等檢查署台中分署 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2694.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2709.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
台中檢查分數99萬6千元第107項台灣高等檢查署台南檢查分數占9萬1千元第108項台灣高等檢查署高雄檢查分數265萬7千元第109項台灣高等檢查署花蓮檢查分數22萬3千元第110項台灣台北地方檢查署7億9570萬3千元第111項台灣士林地方檢查署3億9036萬9千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2723.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2727.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第112項 台灣新北地方檢查署8億0136萬7千元第113項 台灣桃園地方檢查署10億6千326萬6千元第114項 台灣新竹地方檢查署3億7千011萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2740.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2769.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第一百十五項台灣苗栗地方檢查署二億一千二百八十四萬九千元第一百十六項台灣台中地方檢查署十二億九千八百零七萬七千元第一百十七項台灣南投地方檢查署一億七千一百六十五萬四千元第一百十八項台灣彰化地方檢查署四億五千五百十一萬九千元第一百十九項台灣雲林地方檢查署二億四千三百三十一萬五千元第一百二十項台灣嘉義地方檢查署二億九千零八十五萬六千元第一百二十一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2770.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2796.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
台湾台南地方检查署6亿7241万7千元第122项台湾桥头地方检查署4亿0204万5千元第123项台湾高雄地方检查署6亿5263万5千元第124项台湾屏东地方检查署3亿6639万5千元第125项台湾台东地方检查署1亿0573万9千元第126项台湾花莲地方检查署1亿3726万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2799.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2825.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第一百二十七項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署一億六千四百八十七萬三千元第一百二十八項台灣金龍地方檢查署一億三千七百三十六萬七千元第一百二十九項台灣澎湖地方檢查署四千四百九十六萬四千元第一百三十項福建金門地方檢查署三千一百五十九萬九千元第一百三十一項福建連江地方檢查署五百八十三萬一千元第一百三十二項調查局七十六萬二千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2827.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2846.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第三款 規費收入 第八十一項 房屋部二百二十九萬元 第八十二項 司法官學院一千元 第八十三項 矯正署級所屬十七萬九千元 第八十四項 行政執行署級所屬二萬元 第八十五項 最高檢查署三千元 第八十六項 台灣高等檢查署 高雄檢查分數無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2847.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2873.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第87項 台灣台北地方檢查署10萬5千元第88項 台灣士林地方檢查署2千元第89項 台灣新北地方檢查署3萬4千元第90項 台灣桃園地方檢查署2萬元第91項 台灣新竹地方檢查署5千元第92項 台灣苗栗地方檢查署5千元第93項 台灣台中地方檢查署3萬5千元第94項 台灣南投地方檢查署1千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2873.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2882.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第95項 台灣彰化地方檢查署9000元第96項 台灣雲林地方檢查署11000元第97項 台灣嘉義地方檢查署4000元第98項 台灣台南地方檢查署16000元第99項 台灣橋頭地方檢查署24000元第100項 台灣高雄地方檢查署42000元第101項 台灣屏東地方檢查署5000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2896.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2901.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第102項台灣台東地方檢查署4千元第103項台灣花蓮地方檢查署3萬1千元第104項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署3千元第105項台灣基隆地方檢查署4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2910.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2930.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第106项福建金门地方检查署1000元第107项调查局216万元第4款财产收入第109项法务部33万7000元第110项司法官学院42000元第111项法医研究所283000元第112项廉政署48000元第113项矫政署及所署2228万1000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2935.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2948.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第114項行政執行署及所署773萬元第115項最高檢查署8000元第116項台灣高等檢查署6萬元第117項台灣高等檢查署台中檢查分署72000元第118項台灣高等檢查署台南檢查分署19000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2953.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2959.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第119項台灣高等檢查署高雄檢查分數12萬元第120項台灣高等檢查署花蓮檢查分數53000元第121項台灣高等檢查署智慧財產檢查分數5000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2967.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2973.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第122項 台灣台北地方檢查署395,000元第123項 台灣士林地方檢查署127,000元第124項 台灣新北地方檢查署52,000元第125項 台灣桃園地方檢查署1189,000元第126項 台灣新竹地方檢查署43,000元第127項 台灣苗栗地方檢查署442,000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2991.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
3009.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第一百二十八項台灣台中地方檢查署三十二萬九千元第一百二十九項台灣南投地方檢查署十五萬一千元第一百三十項台灣彰化地方檢查署四萬五千元第一百三十一項台灣雲林地方檢查署五萬五千元第一百三十二項台灣嘉義地方檢查署 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
3010.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
3024.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
十八萬四千元第一百三十三項台灣台南地方檢查署二十三萬七千元第一百三十四項台灣橋頭地方檢查署二萬九千元第一百三十五項台灣高雄地方檢查署十七萬三千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
3025.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
3035.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第136項 台灣屏東地方檢查署52,000元第137項 台灣台東地方檢查署106,000元第138項 台灣花蓮地方檢查署45,000元第139項 台灣宜蘭地方檢查署143,000元第140項 台灣金融地方檢查署9,000元第141項 台灣澎湖地方檢查署30,000元第142項 福建高等檢查署金門檢查分署4,000元第143項 福建金門地方檢查署39,000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
3055.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
3060.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第144項 無間連江地方檢查署14000元第145項 調查局169000元第7款 其他收入第108項 保護部673000元第109項 司法官學院6000元第110項 廉政署279000元第111項 廉政署 矯正署及所署12799萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3080.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
3104.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一億二千七百九十九萬三千元第一百十二項行政執行署及所署二百八十二萬元第一百十三項最高檢查署三十七萬六千元第一百十四項台灣高等檢查署一百三十七萬七千元第一百十五項台灣高等檢查署台中檢查分署四十三萬五千元第一百十六項台灣高等檢查署台南檢查分署 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
3105.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3127.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
二十五万三千元第一百十七项台湾高等检查署高雄检查分数四十万九千元第一百十八项台湾高等检查署花莲检查分数十六万七千元第一百十九项台湾高等检查署智慧财产检查分数九千元第一百二十项台湾台北地方检查署一千一百九十七万七千元第一百二十一项台湾市邻地方检查署 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3128.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3143.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
三百四十九万二千元第122项台湾新北地方检查署一亿四千三百八十六万二千元第123项台湾桃园地方检查署九百七十六万八千元第124项台湾新竹地方检查署一百九十九万六千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3144.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3156.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第125項 台灣苗栗地方檢查署 121萬8千元第126項 台灣台中地方檢查署 8996萬7千元第127項 台灣南投地方檢查署 60萬4千元第128項 台灣彰化地方檢查署 132萬6千元第129項 台灣雲林地方檢查署 338萬8千元第130項 台灣嘉義地方檢查署 46萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3170.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3190.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第一百三十一項台灣台南地方檢查署二百三十一萬四千元第一百三十二項台灣橋頭地方檢查署六十一萬四千元第一百三十三項台灣高雄地方檢查署一千二百五十五萬四千元第一百三十四項台灣屏東地方檢查署一百五十一萬八千元第一百三十五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3191.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3217.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
台湾台东地方检查署83万4千元第136项台湾花莲地方检查署101万2千元第137项台湾宜兰地方检查署60万8千元第138项台湾基隆地方检查署128万元第139项台湾澎湖地方检查署30万5千元第140项福建高等检查署金门检查分数1万7千元第141项福建金门地方检查署20万4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3218.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3230.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第142項吳建年將地方檢查署無列數第143項調查局81萬元稅出部分第12款法務部主管第一項法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3231.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3249.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
二十八亿一千三百七十七万四千元第二项司法官学院四亿八千九百九十万一千元第三项法医研究所一亿八千五百二十三万九千元第四项廉政署五亿零三百十万一千元第五项缴证署及所属一百六十五亿三千一百三十五万六千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3250.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3258.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第六項行政執行署及所屬19億9309萬1千元第七項最高檢查署1億7614萬8千元第八項台灣高等檢查署20億3107萬9千元第九項台灣高等檢查署台中檢查分署1億6998萬元第十項台灣高等檢查署台南檢查分署1億3196萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3274.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3301.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第十一項台灣高等檢查署高雄檢查分署一億七千九百四十八萬九千元第十二項台灣高等檢查署花蓮檢查分署六千一百六十四萬一千元第十三項台灣高等檢查署智慧財產檢查分署一千八百六十二萬元第十四項台灣台北地方檢查署十八億九千九百八十萬一千元第十五項台灣士林地方檢查署六億二千七百四十九萬五千元第十六項 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3303.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3310.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
台灣新竹地方檢查署 十億九千七百零六萬六千元第十七項台灣桃園地方檢查署 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3312.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3340.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
九亿二千九百二十七万四千元第十八项台湾新竹地方检查署四亿零九百九十八万八千元第十九项台湾苗栗地方检查署二亿八千七百零九万二千元第二十项台湾台中地方检查署二十一亿九千五百二十五万九千元第二十一项台湾南投地方检查署二亿五千二百八十二万九千元第二十二项台湾彰化地方检查署七亿八千零三十二万九千元第二十三项台湾园林地方检查署 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3340.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3367.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
二億九千二百三十四萬五千元第二十四項台灣嘉義地方檢查署三億八千二百五十八萬六千元第二十五項台灣台南地方檢查署七億四千八百二十五萬五千元第二十六項台灣橋頭地方檢查署四億九千四百二十萬八千元第二十七項台灣高雄地方檢查署九億五千二百零八萬三千元第二十八項台灣屏東地方檢查署三億九千六百七十九萬三千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3369.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3399.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第二十九项台湾台东地方检查署一亿八千一百零一万二千元。第三十项台湾花莲地方检查署二亿五千三百九十六万元。第三十一项台湾宜兰地方检查署二亿四千零十六万二千元。第三十二项台湾基隆地方检查署二亿五千八百万九千元。第三十三项台湾同湖地方检查署一亿零四百七十七万元。第三十四项福建高等检查署进门检查分数二千四百五十四万七千元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3400.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3428.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
第三十五項福建金門地方檢查署六千八百零四萬三千元第三十六項福建連江地方檢查署二千四百五十六萬九千元第三十七項調查局七十三萬三千六百七十四萬六千元第二案保護部主管一百十四年度保護部矯正機關作業基金業務計劃請參閱預算書業務收支業務總收入十一億五千二百五十八萬一千元業務總支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3430.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3446.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
十二億六千一百五十四萬四千元本期短處一億零八百九十六萬三千元結繳公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數固定資產建設改良擴充六百八十六萬六千元國庫增波基金額無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3448.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3471.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第三案港澳部主管一百十四年度毒品防治基金業務計劃請參與預算書基金來源用途及餘處基金來源六億六千二百二十二二百二十四萬三千元基金用途六億八千三百八十萬六千元本期短處二千一百五十六萬三千元結繳公庫無列數第四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3471.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3481.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
保護部主管114年度財團法人台灣更生保護費預算書案業務計劃請參與預算書業務收支業務總收入39,363萬5千元業務總支出39,363萬5千元本期餘出0元結繳公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數固定資產投資706萬6千元國庫增波基金額無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3495.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3502.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
114年度財團法人福建更生保護會預算書案業務計劃請參與預算書業務收支業務總收入761萬1千元業務總支出761萬1千元本期餘處0元結巧工戶金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數固定資產投資31萬5千元國庫增波基金額無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3514.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3520.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
114年度財產法人犯罪被害人保護協會預算書案 業務計劃請參閱預算書 業務收支業務總收入38873萬元 業務總支出38873萬元 本期逾處0元 結繳公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數 固定資產投資224萬1000元 國庫增波機金額無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3536.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3553.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
继续宣读委员提案部分请参议提案会整表及预算提案内容一四年度中央政府组预算案委员提案会整表法务部主管收支部分税处部分第十二款第一项法务部一案媒体政策及业务宣导费减列八百万元委员黄国昌等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3554.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3570.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
二案科目同前 减列500万元 冻结100万元 委员翁晓琳等提案三案第一幕 一般行政中媒体政策及业务宣导费 冻结5% 委员钟家冰等提案四案第一幕 向校林森迎讨考即进修业务 冻结50万元 委员林思明等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3571.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3597.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
五案至八案第一目向下零三嚴討考即競修業務中業務費之一般事務費分別減略一百四十七萬六千元一百三十萬八千元五十三萬元二十一萬九千元委員黃國昌等提案九案第一目向下零四辦理法制及兩公約人權業務凍結百分之二十為吳宗憲等提案十案科目同情委員凍結百分之三十為林思明等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3598.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3627.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
11案第二幕法务行政派员出国计划减列600万元为黄国昌等提案12案科目同前减列200万元为翁晓琳等提案13案致使5案针对第二幕法务行政13案减列210万4千元为翁晓琳等提案14案冻结250万元冻结641万7千元为翁晓琳等提案15案冻结1200万元为罗志强、刘许婷、许晓鑫等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3628.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3642.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
16案第2目向下01辦理法律事務業務 僅列800萬元委員黃國昌等提案17案第2目向下01中業務費 凍結10%委員羅志強等提案18案第2目向下01中業務費至國外旅費凍結30%委員羅志強徐小新等提案19案第2目向下02中業務費至大陸旅費 凍結30%委員吳宗憲等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3652.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3671.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
二十案第二幕上下零二中用非支顾外旅费冻结三分之一为吴宗宪等提案二十一案科目同检冻结百分之三十为罗志强徐晓欣等提案二十案第二幕上下零二中奖股助费减列八百四十四万六千元冻结一千万元为翁晓玲等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3672.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3688.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
二十三案至二十五案針對第二目向下零三辦理司法保護業務二十三案凍結一千萬元為翁少林等提案二十四案業務費凍結五十萬元為恩成俊宇等提案二十五案業務費至一般事務費凍結百分之十為羅志強等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3689.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3713.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
26案至29案针对第二幕向下零四办理国际级两岸法律事务26案冻结100万元委员中加兵赖会员等提案27案业务费至大陆旅费冻结30%委员吴中县等提案28案业务费至国外旅费冻结30%委员吴中县等提案29案科目统签冻结30%委员罗志强徐巧兴等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3714.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3734.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
30案第二幕向下05補助毒品防治特別收入基金凍結5%委員林思明等提案31案第二幕向下05中獎補助費凍結20%委員林思明徐信英等提案32案第三幕一般建築及設備第二節其他設備凍結1000萬元委員鍾嘉斌賴慧園等提案33案科目銅錢凍結1000萬元委員鍾嘉斌賴慧園等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3739.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3765.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
三十四案第五目司法科技業務向下零一新世代智慧檢查AI科技計畫凍結百分之二十委員吳宗憲等提案三十五案科目同錢凍結一百五十萬元委員林思敏等提案三十六案至五十九案分別為委員吳思堯等委員林思敏等委員歐少林等委員周瑞雄等委員鍾嘉斌等所提主決議第十二款第三項法醫研究所 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3767.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3786.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
60案第二幕法院业务冻结200万元委屋小林等提案61案委屋苏瑶等所提主决议第十二款第四项廉政署62案第二幕廉政业务派员出国计划减兑100万元委屋华国昌等提案63案第二幕廉政业务冻结500万元委屋小林等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3787.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3809.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
六十四案科目統前凍結二百五十萬元委員零四名等提案六十五案科目統前凍結二百萬元委員零四名等提案六十六案第二幕項下零一辦理廉政政策規劃考核業務凍結三百萬元委員少零等提案六十七案委員審發會等所提出決議第十二款第五項矯正暑期所屬六十八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3810.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3839.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
第一幕一般行政向下零二基本行政工作維持中業務費至特別費減列二十一萬七千元為翁曉琳等提案六十九案至七十二案針對第二幕矯正業務向下零三辦理矯正行政業務六十九案七十案分別減列一千萬元一千萬元為王國昌等提案七十一案減列一千萬元凍結三千萬元為翁曉琳等提案七十二案凍結一千萬元為中嘉賓賴慧媛等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3841.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3861.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
73案第二幕向下03中设备及投资杂项设备费减免250万元委员中嘉宾等提案74案第二幕向下05办理矫正医疗及训练业务减免1000万元冻结3000万元委员翁晓琳等提案75案第二幕向下05中设备及投资杂项设备费减免500万元委员中嘉宾等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3863.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3878.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
76案台中监狱第二幕矫正业务项下02基本行政工作维持中业务费之特别费减列16万8千亿委员工上林等提案77案至83案分别为委员吴思耀等委员审发会等委员陈俊宇等所提出决议 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3879.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3895.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
第十二款第六項行政執行署及所屬八十四案第三目執行案件處理凍結六百萬元委員零四名等提案八十五案第三目項項03辦理執行業務凍結一千萬元委員翁小林等提案八十六案八十七案委委員零四名等所提組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3897.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3914.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
第十二款第七项最高检查署八十八案第二目检查业务中派员出国计划减免一百万元委员黄国昌等提案八十九案第二目检查业务项下零二督导苏坦其重大刑事案件办理中业务费减免二百万元冻结百分之二十委员黄国昌等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3915.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3931.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
九十案第二目向下零二中医务费至一般事务费冻结十万元委员无中限等提案九十一案第二目向下零二中医务费至国外旅费冻结百分之三十委员国职场需小心等提案第十二款第八项台湾高等警察署 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3933.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3948.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
92案至96案针对第二幕检查业务项下01办理刑事案件侦查及执行等业务92案冻结5%委员黄国昌等提案93案业务废置教育训练费冻结45万4千元委员无中限等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3949.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3975.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
94案 业务费至资讯服务费冻结100万元委员陈俊宇等提案95案 业务费至国外旅费冻结30%委员罗志强 徐晓欣等提案96案 科目同前冻结三分之一委员吴宗宪等提案97案 第二幕向下零四强化社会安全网第二期计划冻结20%委员吴宗宪等提案98案 科目同前冻结2000万元委员吴晓宁等提案99案 委员陈俊宇等所提主决议 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3976.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
4000.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
第十二款第十四項台灣台北地方檢查署一百案第一幕一般行政項下零二基本行政工作維持中醫務費至特別費凍結百分之三十五元吳宗憲等提案第十二款第三十一項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署一零一案第三幕一般建築及設備第一節交通及運輸設備減列六十萬元為吳宗憲等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
4001.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
4028.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
第十二款第37项调查局102案判员出国计划简历200万元文文王国昌等提案103案第一幕一般行政项下06出国参加会议及训练中业务费至国外旅费冻结30%文文罗志强徐晓兴等提案104案第一幕项下07机关资料传输任性强化即发放共用基础平台监制计划冻结30%文文罗志强徐晓兴等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
4029.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4045.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
105案第二幕司法调查业务中媒体政策及业务宣导费减兑100万元委员黄国昌等提案106案第二幕向下04国家安全维护及安全防护工作中业务费之一般事务费减兑100万元冻结50万元委员翁晓琳等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4046.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4073.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
107案第二幕向下06经济犯罪纺织中业务费至国外旅费冻结30%委员罗志强徐晓鑫等提案108案第三幕监视科学及通讯监察业务向下03通讯监察工作中设备及投资冻结1000万元欧小林等提案109案科目统签冻结20%委员黄国昌等提案110案之114案分别为委员吴思耀等委员陈俊宇等委员审发会等所提主决议 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4076.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4100.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
一四年度房屋部矫正机关作业基金提案一案总支出向下成本与费用冻结一千万元委员欧少林等提案一四年度毒品防治基金预算提案一案基金用途冻结一千万元委员欧少林等提案二案基金用途向下矫正关乎社区预防毒品防治计划冻结五百万元委员欧少林等提案宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4106.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4123.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
預算數及所有提案均已宣讀完畢進行討論前 先說明預算案的處理方式依照委員會處理預算案的慣例稅入部分依來源別以巷為單位稅出部分依機關別以木為單位 分別依序進行審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4125.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4144.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
各單位預算中於處理委員所提知增三提案後其餘未涉及預算部分均以照列有關正式別稅出預算隨同機關別審查結果調整預算提案經由整理後請分別參閱提案本集會整表進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4147.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4171.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
另外特別提醒機關稍後經討論決議修正的預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台並均列入公報記錄審查預算過程中如有列席幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時請先自行介紹職稱姓名以立公報人員記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4174.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4188.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
現在進行討論四項第一案繼續審查114年度中央政府從事商案關於法務部所屬主管收支部分先處理稅務部分因為沒有委員提案稅務部分均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4190.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4208.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
稅錄處理完畢 繼續處理稅出提案共計收到114案 處理實際照慣例按照會診表所排列的提案順序依序由提案委員先就提案內容進行說明之後再由機關代表域答覆然後整目一起處理做成決議請參閱提案本期會診表依序進行討論好 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4219.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4219.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我這邊有好我們現在就暗號1跟2 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4246.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4274.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
部分進行討論 請黃國昌或王小林委員你們要進行說明嗎好 黃委員第一案針對有關於法務部所編列的媒體政策及業務宣傳編列了1234萬5千元不過看法務部所謂的媒體政策跟業務宣傳實際的成效到底在哪裡完全看不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4276.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4305.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
他們後來給我的書面說明說要去宣導什麼司法改革要宣導什麼兩公約人權然後要宣導打詐我看了下去以過去這一年2024年去年前年整個執行的成效完全看不出來人民需要的不是法務部在那邊撒銀子在媒體上面做大內宣 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4306.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4327.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
要你們採取的是具體的行動啊法務部自己盤點一下斯坦國際會議決議的內容到現在有多少連案子都沒有送到立法院來還要辦什麼兩公約宣導 辦兩公約宣導我那時候在質詢的時候就問啊國際審查專家認為違反兩公約事項的一而再再而三告訴你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4335.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4343.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
根本也沒有做啊所以啊我也沒有把它全部都刪除啊一千兩百三十四萬簡略八百萬元那翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4352.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4355.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好的本席這次也是針對法務部14年的預算編列了1234萬那我這裡是提出是要這個減列500萬凍結100萬但最主要的原因也還是針對法務部本身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4370.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4393.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
媒體宣傳成效提出質疑那麼其實本席一再重申我並不反對而且也相當的程度支持行政機關是應該要對於政策去進行一些媒體的宣導業務宣導這是應該的但是我們也更需要的去檢討去了解到底這些業務成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4395.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4411.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那根據我們調查的結果譬如說你訪問過現在本身的YouTube頻道你大概只有4570位的訂閱數然後在過去的不管是防詐影片農漁會反賄選影片我們截至到 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4412.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4436.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這個1月7號我們都有看到這個網路上面你們YouTube頻道上面所PO的這些影片那個點贏的次數都很差那麼像農漁會的版會選大概都只有150幾次300多次然後或是對就是大概都是一兩百次等等的那防炸影片那有些也才800多次900多次或是1300多次就是我們如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4439.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4449.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
民眾有興趣去看法務部的YouTube頻道的經營的成效你就可以知道花了那麼多錢可是成效也不髒而且我們過去在講這個防詐宣導為什麼說它的成果不好就因為這個被詐騙的人越來越多然後被詐騙的金額也越來越高那麼在整個看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4463.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4475.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
整個法務部這裡所講的不管是要針對這個洗錢防治啊然後打詐詐欺然後毒品防治等等這些媒體宣傳效果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4477.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4505.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
看不出有什麼積極的成效而且話說回來他有些項目譬如說對於兩公約人權的宣導你們這個宣傳宣媒體業務宣傳的的項目其實也與監察院的人權委員會有高度的重疊那既然如果說監察院的沒宣費裡面有包含國家人權業務的宣導那行政院的防部這邊的話其實也可以就 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4507.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4527.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
減少那個沒宣的費用那麼此外呢本席這次也發現你們在沒宣費的執行表中有很多多數的預算來源的科目並沒有被彙整到你們預算書當中的媒體政策及業務宣導這個沒有被彙整到 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4529.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4555.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
預算書當中的媒體政策及業務宣導費的會計表裡面那麼我們明明就是要求所有的沒宣費都要在集中一個專區而且沒宣費應該在預算書中獨立的列表可是看起來你們基本是將沒宣費有些是藏在其他的預算科目裡面所以最後呢會導致這個整個帳目是對不起來的那基於這些理由那麼本席認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4556.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4569.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
法務部這次的沒宣費用應該要檢列檢列五百萬然後凍結一百萬那麼也請你們要在一個月之內向立法院司法法治委員會提出專案報告之後並經同意才可以凍結以上羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4574.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4586.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我接續我們跟黃國昌委員跟汪小林委員然後對這個沒宣的費用有一些意見我先唸幾個數字給大家聽剛剛其實汪小林委員講了我們法務部的YouTube的訂閱現在是4580個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4590.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4618.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那我把最新的10支影片的點擊率告訴大家最新一支是22然後第二支是10第三支是10次第四支是4次第五支是5次第六支是8次第七支是4次第八支是11次第九支是2次然後第十支是14次那如果說一個月內看起來最高的大概是我看一下那已經很前面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4619.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4637.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
再來都是大概個位數然後一百多次最近的一個三週前是一千九百次兩千八百次所以換言之我覺得剛剛汪小林委員講就是說到底我們法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4638.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4663.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他的整個的宣導的那個成效如何我們真的是打很大的問號那第二個就是說事實上預算我一直在覺得預算只有兩個面第一個面就是說當然我覺得法務部需要宣導的經費這個是無庸置疑但是如果你宣導成效不好能夠鼓勵你把宣導成效做好最好的方式其實就是刪你預算不然怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4664.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4693.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那你知道說今天你沒有做好你預算就會被減嘛就從績效管理上來講的話本來在我們能夠做的去督促跟所謂的鼓勵免利法務部把事情做好的方式就是預算監督啊所以預算監督你那你今年我們覺得你過去做不好那給你一點點鼓勵在尊潔上讓你要求你更尊潔一點的時候那來年你明年今年你整個法務部的宣導績效做得好的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4694.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4718.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那麼當然未來我們在預算上就有基礎就有底氣在說你再增加預算那第二個就是說第三個就是說事實上很抱歉我也不客氣的講我們這次政府普遍在過去執行預算尤其煤圈的部分你會發現有兩大弊端集中度非常高經常都集中在所謂特定的媒體上面那第二個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4719.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4739.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
用所謂的那個限制性招標的方式非常的普遍那這些方式都是引起外界質疑說你是不是在養綠莓是不是在養網球我不是講法務部啦我是講一個通案現象那甚至有些可以高達九成是這樣幹的時候那說真的我們就開始有一個很大的問號啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4741.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4762.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
今天你雖然說要宣導經費但是我看你也沒有那麼需要宣導經費政府宣導經費拿來去養綠媒養網軍嗎那你這樣子告訴我說我要給你多少的宣導經費呢所以這是第三個面向第四個面向我覺得也非常重要就是我們叫不持捐低乃成大海 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4763.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4780.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為最近我像 尤其是我們通過了那個警察人士條例嘛那對於我們警消尤其一些執法同仁我們他的危險勤務同仁我們希望退休保障多一點一年大概增加30多億的支出結果我看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4781.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4805.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我們的政府大喊說要破產了國家要亡了這些警消人員不值得這種待遇30億那麼多你們怎麼可以拿你們好意思拿嗎然後還可以把人分兩段喔今天黃國昌如果當警察他跟你講說今天在野黨這樣做是對不起還在當警察的黃國昌他只幫助了退休的黃國昌人可以切兩段的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4806.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4826.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我實在不能懂民進黨的邏輯人可以切兩段啦警察在在職的時候你給他保障跟他退休給他保障你保障都是同一個人都是人沒有說今天當警察的今天你說要保障不當警察退休之後就不是人沒有這種事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4827.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4849.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以因此在這邊為什麼每個預算我們今天要求是盡量能夠有效率的尊潔當用則用 當省則省也是為了民進黨政府著想因為民進黨一直喊窮嘛超徵四千億五千億也喊窮啊地方要三千億他也喊窮啊然後我們錦囂退休一年三十億也喊窮啊窮成這個樣子 宣導費亂花那我們幫忙政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4855.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4863.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
把他那麼喊窮的部分捐低捐低一筆一筆的幫他遵截所以我很支持我們國昌兄對啊這邊沒宣費省800萬政府就多800萬可以運用啊多好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4870.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4892.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以我覺得今天法務部第一個 過去的績效不彰那今天用我們預算專節的方式免利法務部以後做得更好第二 既然政府一直喊窮 對不對那我們也法務部也做一點貢獻能夠在沒宣費用上面的話能夠去多多幫助我們政府能夠讓政府做得更好財政更豐裕 以上 謝謝好 謝謝那 請問機關不好意思 我剛剛沒看到中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4900.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4921.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
謝謝主席剛剛聆聽了我們三位委員對於媒體政策及業務宣導費他的會呈表當中他列了一千兩百三十四萬五千元那有要求要減列八百萬有要求要減列五百萬動減一百萬那三位委員都分別就他們的提案以及對於媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4922.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4937.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
政府在執行媒體政策上的一些看法那在這裡大概分別有幾點要來就教於我們行政機關那首先政府辦理媒體宣傳或政策宣應該說是政府辦理的政策業務宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4938.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4967.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
本來就是政府應該做的 因為人民有知的權利但是過去呢 呈如剛剛幾位委員所說的 常被詬病的就是政府自己在置辦的時候呢 方式上要注意那譬如說 以剛剛羅委員所關心的就是YouTube啦 也包括那個翁委員也關心的這些頻道呢 大概呢 我在過去幾次預算審議跟平常的質詢幾乎委員都會先拿 不管是法務部啦 其他各部也是這樣子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4967.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4978.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
各部會自己自營的官網上的YouTube頻道其實點閱率都很低那這一點行政機關尤其法務部要去思考一下有誰有事沒事會去上法務部的網站看 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4980.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
5004.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以其實要法務部自己經營的官網那要有會對法務部官網有興趣的人過去個人在地方政府服務其實地方政府如果真的正式的官網點閱率最高的是什麼是招標採購因為這些工程廠商他要知道說有哪些公告上網的要招標採購他會來點閱其他的其實就算是新聞發布也是記者在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
5004.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5018.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那記者他會去點閱嗎 也不會所以其實行政機關包括法務部請部長真的要去思考一下真的要用自己法務部的官網去推動你們的政策宣導嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5020.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5040.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
還是說您會透過其他的方式譬如說跟其他的通路媒體通路合作那將你們的政策內容錄出其實大家就非常關切打詐那我自己呢在經常收到的打詐的簡訊當中呢我不曉得是不是有跟政府機關合作但是呢這些打詐相關的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5041.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5054.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
架設的平台呢他們經常會提供有趣的影片那麼製作呢讓人家覺得親切的影片讓大家去注意到又或者是呢只要隨時有新的詐騙方式出來那他就主動 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5056.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5081.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
投放所以點閱只是一個你們有沒有主動投放的能力有沒有辦法去跟媒體上的通路合作透過他們的通路去投放你們希望的訊息我想這個認真來檢討我們的媒體政策跟業務宣導我覺得切中要害的不單純只是做預算的剪裂或凍結而具體的提出你們現在問題在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5083.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5098.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那麼至於剛剛其實也提到一個情況就是限制性招標其實我來自於地方政府限制性招標過去有一些不完整的論述其實公共工程的採購那麼在一定公告金額以下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5099.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5116.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
它就是可以用限制性招標 多少錢呢有的服務案10萬元以下因為公告金額是100萬嘛100萬未達公告金額十分之一它就是限制性招標這很多的地方 未達10萬元它就是用三家比價的方式進行這叫做限制性招標那我真的要請機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5118.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5135.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
去盤點一下如果你們的媒體的預算經常是在這種公告金額未達十分之一那麼就用限制性招標那表示你們是什麼你們是單筆單筆的投放譬如說這個要投放到哪個頻道上可能五萬塊那個要投放到多少八萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5136.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5161.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那像這種情況如果你們有特定的通路因為在限制性採購上面它有規定也就是說譬如說你要針對哪個族群希望他們知道你這個政策那你需要透過跟他有關係的通路來播放那因此就必須跟他討論但是如果你超過一定公告金額以上的還是不能用限制性招標除非有夠強的理由但是因為這樣長期以來這種零星式的媒體採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5163.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5181.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
會造成外界對於政府進行業務宣導上的一個誤會如果零零總總的把你們的這個我看到你們這裡一般行政項下編列了八十八萬一千元坦白說如果您是有十幾次的投放每一次投放大概都未達公告金額十分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5182.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5197.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那大概可想而知你們行政機關上就是採取什麼就是採取限制性招標啊就是參加筆價了嘛那可是外界看來呢加總起來你們整個年度所有的媒體採購都是限制性招標如果你們沒有去區分清楚的去做區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5198.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5212.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那麼就會讓外界詬病你們是不是用拆包的方式在規避政府採購法的規定所以這是我提出的第二點我是覺得過去政府機關法務部也可以要注意在媒體採購上你們容易犯的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5213.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5226.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那麼如果說你是整個的整包加起來 譬如說兩百萬 三百萬但是呢 跟大型的通路合作但是你這時候就遵循採購法叫他來做服務建議書 來做這個評審評審之後呢 才決標那有時候還是付出決標因為呢 有時候呢 一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5231.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5240.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
不管是電子媒體啦他可能有廣播電台有有線電視有無線電視可能呢你們不會獨厚一家所以我們在招標採購上還有複數的採購所以建議機關如果你們預算足夠可能避免單筆單筆的小筆的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5247.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5259.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那種十萬元以下的零星式的一次性的採購而能做全年度的統合計畫但是呢你們統合計畫發包的時候呢以複數決標的方式呢可能較能夠發揮倒不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5262.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5281.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
防止弊端而已而是能夠在通路上的廣泛的接觸到各個受眾的需求那我在這裡是很誠懇的利用預算審查的機會不希望只是透過預算的簡列跟凍結來鞭策行政機關而是就我們過去實務商常常看到的情況剛剛所說的限制性招標那個可能就是你們零星採購的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5282.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5296.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
第二個,如果你們會被外界認為獨厚某家通路或獨厚某家媒體那麼建議你們集中一定金額以上之後,採公開的一個評審方式但是呢,就算公開評審也可以付諸絕標 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5298.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5312.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那另外呢你們也應該要跟那個行政院去反應因為目前很多通路尤其是這種媒體的宣傳他其實只是要跟受眾不見得哪個通路要有獨特性這時候我們所謂的過去有那種 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5318.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5328.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
就是由臺灣銀行辦理的類似這樣的採購服務他就是說你反正公定價格嘛他就統一包嘛你們用多少算多少這個你們怎麼稱呼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5331.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5355.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
對 共同供應契約 一下想不出來 共同供應契約如果有共同供應契約其實也應該用共同供應契約去處理那這樣的比較不會被詬病那倒是在這裡有一個部分要提醒主席的因為這個部分目前雖然在我們預算書的128頁它是規範在媒體政策及業務宣導費的會計表當中但是它是在一個向下的兩個幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5358.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5376.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那我們剛剛主席一開始就宣布了我們一開始今天的預算審查是依照募來做討論的那目前前面這兩個提案它跨了兩個募一個是一般行政一個是法務行政那如果待會要處理的話恐怕在一般行政這個募只有88萬1千元在法務行政這個募有1146萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5381.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5408.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那如果不管要檢列多少要凍結多少或者要求改成像我自己本來有提案那我後來我覺得我的提案呢我覺得呢我希望不是用檢列的方式也不是用凍結的方式我希望很具體的告訴行政機關你們怎麼去調整你們的媒體或業務宣導的方向那才不會有出現剛剛幾位委員所詬病的那種方式那我還是要提醒一下其實呢就這兩個提案內容呢還好有兩位委員在做補充不然的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5409.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5430.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
以提案的方式只有三行不到,三行而已那另外第二案,文委員的提案至少要點出YouTube那講到YouTube我們至少就可以知道你們的媒宣政策上用YouTube這個方式絕對不是說絕對啦要避免用自己的官網作為你們投放的通路 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5431.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5459.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
老實說政府機關的官網不太會有很多人有興趣去看所以如果你們要用影音的平台要用這種方式去投放你們應該去找到其他的一個適合的方式那循著公共工程採購的方式依法來處理這樣才能達到有效的政策宣導目的那以上是誠懇的跟你們建議那也希望主席待會在處理的時候能夠留意到它是分別在一般行政幕下跟法務行政幕下是不同的內容那我們怎麼去處理 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5463.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5487.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好 請問機關有沒有意見要補充謝謝委員的一個寶貴的一個意見那我想這個事實上我們編列的這個金額委員都清楚這個是才1234萬5千元這個是比去年上個年度是增加90萬那我想這個我們也是要追求更大的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5488.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5501.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那剛剛委員就提了 那我們在這個年度的一個執行這邊我們在投為一個規劃那事實上我們也不是做什麼限制性招標 那個事實上我們有公開招標那至於那個媒體的一個通路的話 我想我們會檢討這個一個成效的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5504.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5513.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那因為今年我們希望說這次凍結再加起來已經超過共結那1300萬已經超過整個預算的一個編列數了那今年也農議會的一個選舉那也有一段的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5521.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5543.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
要必須要做一個反賄選的一個宣導那另外洗錢防治等等還有毒品詐欺法治等等這些都需要做媒體的一個宣導那我想這部分你必須要跟我們國民來做一個說明那我們希望如果說這個這個有簡略的那我們這邊就可能在一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5544.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5551.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
宣導正面可能會會比較大的一個一個一個一個影響幫美建立說請委員能夠多支持做以上的一個補充是這樣子的因為呢你們其實陸續這些年都有做了像是這個防打炸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5564.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5589.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
打炸的影片洗錢防治然後賄選等等這些影片都有做那請問這些影片內容是有過期或是需要再更新的地方嗎有些影片內容如果說一直可以持續的用的話你就不需要再重新製作那重點就是它的宣傳效益不彰那宣傳效益不彰的問題呢我在這裡我要請教請教調查局今天調查局局長有來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5597.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5597.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5599.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5627.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
局長請問一下你們調查局做的影片您曾經有看過嗎有 我有看過這樣子現在有一個叫深度偽造影片的防治宣導你有看過嗎是那有在你們調查局的頻道上面嗎剛剛那個委員也有指教過其實我們就是投放的那個路徑的問題在我們官網民眾進去點閱的確實是很少大概可能都不到一千人可是在那個YouTube上面點閱的就有好幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5628.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5644.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
的人士有去看過 其實是有那個效果產生深度偽造影片的防制宣鬧根本沒有放在你們調查局的官方頻道上我看一下好 然後呢 這個就是調查局的你們之前 到目前為止你們頻道只有兩部影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5644.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5662.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
一部是中信兄弟的國安廣告另外一部是戴資穎的國安宣導短片那戴資穎的國安宣導短片是112年做的可是因為後來肖像權的關係所以都已經下架了所以其實代表說像這樣的一個宣導花了很多錢去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5664.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5689.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個宣導短片但是因為考慮到一些名人他的肖像權等等的他們的肖期基本上也許只有一年所以這都是你們之後必須要再檢討的這個我們會檢討那一支花了14萬多14萬多也是錢對戴志穎那一支是好好的先請坐好謝謝另外最高檢察署今天最高檢察署蘇珊有來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5692.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5702.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
不好意思檢查總長總長請問您知道你們有沒有YouTube頻道有你們現在訂閱數有多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5705.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5732.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我說明一下,我們這都沒有花錢,是我們自己剪輯做的是這樣,你們現在只有408位的訂閱者然後你們的影片,看起來還有中英日版所以代表你們檢察署裡面的人才記輯這些中英日的影片,你們都可以自己製作這個我要說明一下,這個配音因為要專業人才,這個是我們要請外面人來做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5735.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5738.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以這個到底影片是你們自己做的還是委外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5739.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5768.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
剪輯因為這個我跟委員報告一下裡面的海報資料都是我們原來我們自己用業務費做的但是這個剪輯還有一些配音我們沒有那個技術因為我們人很少所以我們就必須要拜託人家來幫我們剪輯一下好的 檢察長我想您不用再說明這麼多因為我可以很清楚的知道您根本沒有看到你們的影片是有些什麼從頭到尾都我們自己做每一頁我都看了委員有機會把它看一看您現在您可以講一下你們你看了什麼影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5769.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5791.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我現在講的中英日版的這是什麼影片就是正氣嘛正氣然後所以正氣都是你們同仁自己剪輯的那個剪輯是委外的沒有辦法我們沒有那整個製作呢影片拍攝呢拍攝就我們檢察官啊裡面全部是檢察官啊不是裡面主要是檢察官但是整個的影片的拍攝製作企劃企劃都我們自己弄 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5792.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5809.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們就剪輯委外而已啦裡面的拍攝那個內容都是我們自己檢察官自己弄的請問委員如果有機會看一下就知道你們自己接經費就可以節省了嘛雖然說看起來成效真的是不好嘛就是每一個影片到目前為止觀看次數有20次19次我跟委員報告一下選舉的時候播放的現在選舉已經結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5813.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5841.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
而且那時候當時因為我們做完之後這個才放到選舉完才上去因為這個youtube它這個不是隨便都可以放的啦所以我們當時選舉的時候是拍是給一般民眾看的那選舉完的時候它才上youtube的所以那時效已經過了如果委員有空把它看就知道是那像這樣的影片內容不是應該要一直不斷的宣傳嗎這不是只有在選舉期間對不對而且呢坦白說你們最高檢察署的員工可能都不只20個人吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5842.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5862.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
你們自己內部的人你們都沒有自己去看過這個我跟委員報告如果委員看到這邊手邊有了有這個有一萬多次的也有七千多次的委員看什麼版本啊因為我們在不同的地方放比如說委員這邊就有如果委員我現在看一下你看在這個一年前看了就一萬次我們2004年那個訪問國立篇一萬次那超馬篇七千四百多次這都在這裡啊都有東西可積的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5870.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5880.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
是啊 所以你們去看看嘛我這邊也是全部都列出來嘛就是大家有興趣的話現在立刻點到最高檢察署的YouTube頻道上面去看就知道委員有空馬上可以看這個手機在這裡委員如果有興趣看的話英文版四個月前到現在四個月之前播的到現在二十次然後呢這個不同的數據不同的頻道如果委員有興趣看我們這邊馬上可以看委員看一萬多次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5898.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5918.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個宣傳績效好不好啊所以我不是跟你辯論我完全就是事實的陳述那宣傳績效好不好的這個地方是大家可受公平的那至於檢察長你認為說你們這樣的宣傳績效很好的話那是您個人的看法那我只是要講的就是說可能你這些影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5919.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5935.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
連你們最高檢察署檢察官或相關的員工都不知道有這些影片那同樣的你法務部調查局然後連政署等等你們都有做這些宣傳影片但是事實很清楚就是成效不彰更何況這些影片內容它沒有時效性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5935.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5959.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
做了之後它可以一直還可以再播送所以本席是認為這一次的媒體宣傳費必須要減劣那麼重要是說你們要把之前已經製作過的影片讓它有效的去做宣傳而不是一直在製作一些新影片然後點閱次數可能百次都不到甚至只有十幾二十次這個真的是叫浪費人民的納稅錢我跟各位報一下這影片還被列為熱門我先看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5966.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5989.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那個莊委員先舉手 所以莊委員先然後接下來是黃委員再來吳委員謝謝莊委我看這黃國昌委員跟歐小林委員這兩個提案我都看到了我想針對整個媒體政策跟業務非宣導的部分黃委員是檢列八百 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5990.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6016.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那原律師其實才1234萬那歐委員是減列500剛剛我相信委員所指教的這一些我也聽不出一個所以然說要去把它減列掉這麼的多那以各個部會來看那我們在各個委員會裡面在看各個部會來看的話媒體宣傳這個部分大家都會去談它的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6017.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6036.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
華為部是一個我認為是一個比較特殊的一個單位啦你像譬如說它這個也不是說像其他各個部會有大筆錢啦反而它所執掌的尤其類似於到這一陣子我們在社會法治委員會這麼多我也聆聽到很多委員對於說整個打詐的一個宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6039.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6064.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
洗錢的這個一個宣傳兩公約的部分我倒是比較沒有去著墨這邊的一個宣傳的方式啦但是整個打擊整個犯罪洗錢防詐那這些反而是大家要求要去更進一步的去落實啦在今天編列這樣的一個預算是不是請黃委員這個地方還有那個翁委員這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6064.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6070.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
簡略的部分是不是可以來再做一個修正因為畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6071.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6098.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我也比較難想像說法務部它這個地方會有網軍不然你應該也沒有網軍吧你也沒有網軍你自己出去就嚇嚇叫了還說什麼網軍你們現在預算被砍是很合理啦很合理啦就是說各黨情緒不太好啦但是啦以媒體的一個整個政策的一個宣傳的部分的話你們那個執行率都應該全部都執行完嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6103.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6118.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那九成多不是說執行效率不彰反而是沒有達到說在委員會裡面大家要求的就是說這幾年整個洗錢該如何去做一個房子讓老百姓知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6120.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6145.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個整個打詐的部分應該去更落實那這個部分是整個怎麼樣去落實的問題倒不是說他的這個錢花得太多那是不是也請黃委員跟翁委員這筆預算打詐的宣傳這個媒體政策的部分我看起來我真的是沒有看到說他們這個錢拿去亂花或者說特別去關注到哪一個媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6146.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6173.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那這個部分以跟你們過去長期的一些監督主張的部分好像也沒有違背是不是也可以給他們給法務部來做一個支持我倒認為這陣子我們要求法務部或者要求調查局去針對整個國內這個詐騙的部分再去痛打我們把行則也都提高了那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6174.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6202.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
成效看到了可是更可怕的是說那個詐騙的金額也是越來越大那這個到底是法務部或者我們檢警機關的這個大家好像是說好像是你們執行自己的業務打擊犯罪不利還是我們這個被批評成越打越詐以後是沒做事還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6204.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6229.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
詐騙的人、寫信的人就是那些人我一直也在思考這樣的一個問題但是是不是也給他們的努力給法務部他們的一個努力給他們一點支持在整個對於民眾的溝通的部分你既然會認為說因為打詐的方式其實是我每個禮拜在服務處裡面我受到那些懲刑的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6231.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6250.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
也不是廣告的就被騙了也有很多國務委員退休的也有很多都地勢紛紛的也是被騙了所以這個部分我反而就覺得宣傳還不夠了宣傳還不到位但這個不到位的部分是我們也確實應該去精進啦要去精進啦那是不是請黃委員 請黃委員這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6253.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6264.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
監督白鴨 監督啦這部分喔 我是認為說沒有看到是那麼亂花錢的一個地方啦也請大家給他們一個支持啦 謝謝黃委員 黃委員 完結 吳委員我具體說明一下齁 就針對喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6273.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6296.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
剛剛中委員站在執政黨立委的立場幫法務部說話我是敬表尊重但無法同意我同意的是法務部花錢的確是很有效率編預算裡面的錢都花了差不多了花錢很有效率我質疑的是效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6298.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6327.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
不是花錢的效率是宣傳的效果以及宣傳的內容你們說要宣傳司法改革你們也花了錢去拍了司法改革的宣導短片在法務部司法改革的宣導短片叫做我們都一樣看了150次這不是上禮拜上架的這是去年上架的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6329.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6356.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
花錢跟全體國人說我們都一樣一年前上架看了150次我還不是只有對次數有意見我連對你們宣傳的內容都很有意見我們都一樣怎麼會一樣完全不一樣啊你要談到司法改革要談到打詐要談到洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6357.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6380.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
前兩天專門在幫詐騙集團的洗錢犯洗錢的林秉文不就大剌剌的跟台灣社會講我哪有跟你們一樣啊我不一樣啊我政治的八股很強啊鄭文燦啊把我的PGtalkPGtalk是拿來幹嘛的我兩年前就講了幫詐騙集團在洗錢的啊那個叫PGtalk |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6389.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6392.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我當初這樣講的時候林秉文臉皮有夠厚的還跑去告我林秉文這樣跟台灣社會講怎麼會我們都一樣我們目前司法改革的成效 打詐的成效打擊洗錢的成效最有力的宣傳片不就林秉文嗎他跟整個台灣社會講啊我們哪裡有一樣 完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6420.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6421.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
完全不一樣啊拍這種片子出來擦脂抹粉粉飾太平有什麼意義難怪點擊率慘不能賭嘛人民根本看不下去啊這個錢不是說 我有執行錢有花下去 銀子撒下去 這樣就算了我說效果慘不能賭嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6449.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6478.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
理由就到這裡啊現在還是只有處理法務部的部分啊剛剛歐委員講最高檢察署的部分刑檢察莊長好像很有意見覺得歐委員講的不對啊但是後來實際我實事求是啊我不會人家別的委員說什麼我就相信什麼我就上去最高檢察署看沒有錯啊你們正氣系列的有沒有花錢 有花錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6480.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6497.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
有花錢啊有中文版、英文版、日文版啊那你說有什麼上萬次的你上萬次的應該是2024年Vote台灣反賄選台灣宣傳影片活力篇PSX成語檢察官一年多前上的那個5340次當然我還沒有去看啊是花了多少錢做這個片子 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6506.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6514.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
剛二人提出來的你們正氣系列的四個月前上的二十次日文版的十九次英文版的四次正氣三奉法者強則國強四個月三十次正氣二點擊數最高四個月前法老會會一百零六次 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6534.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6559.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
花納稅人的錢,做出來的騙子沒有關係啦,你等一下有什麼意見,你直接拿麥克風講啦等我說完了以後,你有什麼要回覆的,就請你拿麥克風講嘛這裡法院基本的議事規則,我相信最高檢察署的檢察中帳應該可以遵守,沒有這麼困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6564.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6572.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那五委員 待會五委員那個提問完之後再麻煩機關一併回答五委員 五委員完畢之後是召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6574.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6598.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好謝謝主席那針對這一筆整個宣傳行銷的費用我想法務部也不要洩氣我想這一次在各個部門審預算裡頭其實這個宣傳費用已經就是普遍的被在野黨的委員拿來檢視再檢視那可能一開始審查之前還沒進入實質審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6599.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6618.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
就已經對外宣告一定會大砍一定會下手啦所以我相信就大家做好準備那我認為是這樣不管在地方政府在中央政府那都會編列相關的政策推廣的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6619.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6645.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這是從地方到中央不論誰執政這個預算也不是鎮部長你來才有嘛對不對那編列這個預算無非是要推廣政策要把我們的政策布打給人民所以在法務部進行的當然司法改革是需要好好跟人民來做布打做對話那這幾年的這個黑金槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6647.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6669.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
毒、炸都是我們要去強化宣導的反毒、防毒每個立委都要求你們做得不夠要再做試炸、防炸每個委員都在告訴你們做得不夠好要繼續加碼處理所以黑金、槍、毒、炸對抗所有的犯罪是要全民一起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6670.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6679.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那我是認為如果這一筆預算我認為大家應當都朝野委員都站在同樣的角度認為應當做 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6681.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6707.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
只是大家認為做要做好那做好效益如何去驗證也許是流量上的數字或也許是一個好的論述生活社會所肯認那個好或不好效果如何其實是見仁見智但是不管做得好不好到不到位大家滿不滿意至少這件事情是要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6708.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6731.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
對不對宣傳去推廣政策這就是執政者天經地義的責任也是義務但是呢回過頭來看看王小林委員跟黃國昌委員的提案翁委員是三五百萬動一百萬就是總體一千兩百萬的二分之一每頂每檔等於就是砍了一半的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6732.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6753.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那黃國昌委員呢這個下手又可能更重了一點點他是砍八百萬變成是三分之二的媒體的這些宣傳都不要做了所以回過頭來邏輯到底是什麼又要人家要做又要馬兒好又要馬兒不吃草 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6754.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6779.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那等於是不是委員的定見就是這件事情宣傳推廣政策乾脆不要做了我希望不是這樣那我回應一下剛剛幾位委員的發言翁委員說有些影片你可以拍了可以repeat一直放五年十年都放同一支不是不可以啦那一支要成為這個經典永留傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6780.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6800.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
也不是不行但是如果以防詐來講我們為什麼上個會期要通過打詐司法是因為面對所有的新興犯罪所以在對人民宣傳防詐打詐的部分他有新的素材新的犯罪手法需要透過新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6801.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6825.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
內容產製去告訴人民所以很難讓政府一個影片可以再用啊用十年用二十年啊其實就所有的廣告界可能很少有人會認同這種觀點啊除非我說那是一個經典老電影可以一直要像真善美將像亂世佳人這樣但是我們在做政策的行銷他追求的不是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6827.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6855.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
經典永留傳的那個價值而是要針對新興的社會動態去做政策的配套然後及時的提供給人民所以我來回應說你需要再去有很多新的產制我基本上是認同的因為犯罪手法是越來越新道高一尺 謀高一丈第二個我也要來反駁一下剛剛提案委員所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6856.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6871.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那你們做得不夠好你們這些檢察官怎麼這些影片都拍得不夠好你們會拍得好才有問題你們的專業是查案辦案所以拍片宣傳是要委由專業我一直認為這個要讓專業的人去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6874.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6901.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我過去在教育文化部門就算是文化部就算是文化部都是藝術家出身很多可是文化部的很多的影片的產製也是要透過專家去處理那透過專家去處理他就需要費用他就需要合理的資源的投入否則他就是一個惡性循環你不花必要的支出去委請更專業的團隊你怎麼會拍出好的宣傳影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6901.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6909.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那現在委員做的就是剛好是足以完全閹割了讓你們可以去往好的方向去前進的預算的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6911.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6938.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以再次希望我知道這個在黨委員可能對這筆預算已經是非常明確的態度就是要大砍大山一個提了是砍了幾乎一半一個是砍了三分之二那我希望如果是預算這樣的處理我當然認為我反對這樣好我如果對於這樣一樣我當然覺得要保留大家再來討論但是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6941.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6961.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
又要馬而好 又要馬而不吃草我覺得請提案的委員多多來思考我們都希望你們做 要做好那就是給支持 給資源那做不好的 當然要改進但是你不給他錢做 他就永遠不會好好 這是我的觀點那跟大家再做一下對話那個 鍾昭偉 鍾昭偉好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6968.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6994.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
因為關於媒體的政策宣導長期以來在政府部門就是一個我們很關切的但是要把問題的重點放在放對地方媒體是對民眾宣導民眾宣導他在政策上他扮演的是對政策瞭解不是代表民眾去執行政策舉例來講我們平常要做防火宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6995.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7016.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是會不會因為發生了縱火案 可能是來自於相關安檢機關的疏失那我們就說 喔 那發生了縱火案 引起社會觀瞻 那死傷呢 社會震撼所以呢 我們就把相關的防火宣導給拿掉了 是這樣的邏輯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7018.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7047.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
過去我們很重視食品安全什麼西部特羅啦 瘦肉精啦什麼米酸菌啦發生了食物中毒我們就覺得 到底是哪個環節出問題當我們在追查這些不管是消防安全的漏洞或者是食品安全的漏洞不管是在哪個地方發生問題釀成社會矚目的一些傷亡那我們所要做的就是去查清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7048.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7067.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這在執行上哪個環節出了問題針對那個問題來下手而不是說發生了縱火案我們就刪消防宣導的預算發生了食品安全的中毒事件我們就把所有的食品安全的宣導把它拿掉應該不是這個意思吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7068.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7085.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以我們對於所謂的業務宣導在我們行政機關上它扮演的是讓民眾理解政府的作為民眾可以配合但不是把這個當作是政府行政施政的主力 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7086.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7112.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以一旦發生了重大治安事件我們應該去檢討的是在這個過程當中相關的執行機關有沒有缺失而不是反過來說因為發生了這些行政上或者說重大的事件上當我們在進行行政上的要求改進的同時我們把對於民眾呼籲要來得悉我們在執行的政策的這些相關的作為就予以給它簡列 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7114.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7136.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
給他刪減我可以理解我們預算的簡略是指那個宣導本身是我應該改進的之處我在上一輪的發言也對於政府在進行媒體政策或者業務宣導的執行手段上我也要求行政機關應該注意到常見的缺失去改進那是純粹就媒體採購跟政策宣傳上 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7139.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7167.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
的部分但我不是因為說因為你這個做不好導致於哪些重大治安事件發生這個兩者之間的因果關聯應該要釐清治安事件的發生應如何檢討改善是一回事那我們在呼籲民眾配合政府維護社會治安我們維持法治社會的這些宣導本身的宣導部分的手段哪些地方做不好我們要求這樣才是正辦的而不是把兩件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7168.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7194.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
連結在一起做不當連結然後呢好像是用減業預算後另外那個事情就能夠辦好難道我們把消防宣導的預算與減業那我們就會相信社會上不會有火警的發生嗎這個事情是完全兩回事我還是呼籲我們這個案子的審查就目前的媒體政策的執行手段上有應該經驗的地方我們來提出檢討以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7196.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7204.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好吧 那機關這邊是否機關要回應不好意思 還有陳委不好意思 不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7205.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7228.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好 謝謝主席那對於我們現在在討論的這個預算媒體政策及業務宣導費的部分那剛剛我們部長也有講去年度的質詢率已經超過九成以上那基本上我相信都有基本的一個成效那以現在這種資訊發達的時代其實宣傳真的很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7233.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7252.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那我看到我們這一次是內容其中包括這個對打詐還有毒品還有反賄權方面這個都對於這個現階段在宣傳方面我們法務部我覺得反而是要更加去精進相關的這種宣傳的這種量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7256.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7262.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
讓民眾更知道相關的這些資訊如何來防堵被詐騙還是這些毒品的問題還是會選 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7266.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7288.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
在影片的製作方面我覺得應該是要不斷的推陳出新讓民眾有一種新奇的感覺民眾才會想要去點閱去看我覺得現在應該是這樣子因為現在的人我相信可能很多的資訊都是從手機上去獲取的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7289.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7316.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以我剛剛看了一下我們在網路上的這些平台能夠去佈建許多的這些新的這種影片的話我相信對於要防堵相關的這些問題一定會有很好的一個成效我想也跟我們法務部這邊分享一下我昨天遇到了一個比較新的一個那個我們的通訊軟體被 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7318.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7341.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個木馬城市的這個問題給侵入導致這個民眾被騙他是透過一個連結的方式跟你講說要確認你的身份那結果民眾不知道就把他按進去直接就木馬城市就植入在手機裡面不到一個小時他的朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7342.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7354.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
他的朋友收到他的那個通訊軟體的通知要跟他借錢結果他不是傳一個他傳很多個所以這種機率讓被詐騙的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7356.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7374.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
被詐騙的可能提升所以在昨天的一整天他的自己的手機內的朋友就好幾個被騙了當然金額或許不是很大可是我相信這個也是在打詐的過程裡面我們希望說能夠透過我們這個宣傳的方式可以讓民眾提高警覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7375.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7399.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
避免被騙那現在新興的毒品也很多啊有一些不知道的這個民眾可能在這種不知道包裝的情況之下或是不認識毒品的情況之下或許也會不小心去觸碰到毒品所以這個部分也是希望能夠透過我們法務部的相關影片來跟民眾這個告知那 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7400.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7428.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
反賄選的部分我相信從以前到現在我們一直三聲五令一直在提醒民眾不管買票賣票這個行為我相信大家都非常的厭惡那要怎麼去杜絕我希望說我們還是要讓民眾去了解到底這個買票跟賣票所會導致的這個前因後果甚至未來會危害到我們民眾什麼情形也可以透過影片去說明所以我還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7430.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7452.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
很希望我們這筆預算能夠順利通過讓法務部落實去質詢也可以提高相關的民眾對於影片的興趣能夠多多的去點閱也可以去分享我覺得這才能夠達到實際的效果以上黃偉剛剛有舉手是不是也要發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7454.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7480.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
其實我在第一輪發言的時候我已經說過了不過剛剛有一些委員有指教簡短的回應一下第一個事情是說騙子要找專業要有技術的拍我沒有反對啊去年前年都有給錢拍啊都是找專業的啊都找有技術的啊每年都花了一千多萬啊問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7484.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7500.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
按照這樣的說法的確是找專業的啊找有技術的拍啊那拍出來就慘不能賭嘛所以現在立法院在審預算是看到前面拍出來的片子已經慘不能賭了為了鼓勵法務部繼續給錢繼續慘不能賭我不知道這個邏輯在哪裡啊第二個我剛剛也說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7510.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7531.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
法務部前的執行率執行的很有效率啊我在質疑的是效果啊為什麼沒有效果你拍出來的東西跟社會現實脫節嘛大家看這個官樣的文章大內宣 插資抹粉大家當然看不下去啊就看不下去點閱率才會差嘛這麼簡單的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7541.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7564.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
你專注媒體宣傳來講那不是在看你過去多努力啊也不是在看你找什麼專業的人來啊媒體宣傳就看一件事啊你宣傳的效果如何嘛宣傳的效果就爛啊為什麼宣傳的效果爛那拍的內容大家看不下去嘛毫無意義啊聽你們在那邊自追自擂現實上就不是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7571.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7574.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以大家看不下去啊這道理非常簡單啊好 翁委員請問那個法務部請問部長你們法務部現在有多少員工你們所屬的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7592.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7619.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
就是包含就是你們說就是包含主管機關下面的二三級對全部的話有上萬人嗎有上萬人嗎我先要講就是說其實你們這些宣導影片呢就連你們自己的員工也不捧場如果說你們未來自己的員工每個人都是讓他們上去看然後讓他們去分享那個宣傳效益可能都比透過媒體的宣傳要好我先要講就是說我還是我並不反對行政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7621.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7637.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
要做業務宣導可是業務宣導也要有成效而且如果說像你們拍花了些錢然後拍這些影片你們底下的員工檢察官這個相關的這個裡面防務部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7638.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7665.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這些公務員們都不知道這樣的影片那難怪就說為什麼宣傳效果不好對然後我的想法就是說在去年13年就是今年你們拍的影片其實到下一年度都還可以用固然說可能詐騙手法日新月異可是呢就整個宣導的本質是應該是是不變的大家要對於這個很多的這個詐騙要有警覺心然後再說話說回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7669.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7691.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
重要的職責是要去抓詐騙會選也是一樣這才是你們重要的任務所以就宣導這個事情我個人還是認為你們這一次可以就你們之前先去整體檢討你們哪些影片是要再做強力宣傳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7692.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7716.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那麼至於就是在媒體電視上面的這個宣傳效果也可以一併做檢討在YT或是在你們自己的社群平台裡面能夠由你們自己的員工自己去負責去經營的那麼就自己做那麼看起來你們現在花錢委外宣傳效果也不好所以我這邊還是認為還是有必要要簡列了那因為這個案子也談了蠻久的是不是到時候大家可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7717.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7743.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
就做個結論好那因為今天有一百多萬那所以說時間上面我覺得會很趕那是不是說既然大家沒有共識那就把它保留好好我保留最後一個發言好再講一下我同意保留但我希望這個道理講一下這個法務部的人員不應當下班之後檢察官辦案還要去為自己的影片按讚這個很奇怪啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7743.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7769.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那我的理解所謂的媒體宣傳跟所謂的推廣行銷也不必然只是社群上的YouTube社群上你還有很多要去進行業務宣導各種方式但不要流入一個迷思都不要流入流量的迷思我們做政策宣導不是在追求流量 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7770.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7786.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好嗎我是很怕這個我一定要更正一下如果說以後你們回去要求所有的各集同仁回去不只下班要按讚自己家人來按讚這種沖流量不是這個意思好我覺得這個還是要講清楚那這個預算就保留好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7788.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7810.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那現在因為時間的關係我想說我們這個第一二案我們就保留宋協商那我們繼續處理第一幕一般行政第二案號第三案之第十案那請問一下這樣子第三案跟第四案因為有改過主決議嘛那是不是請問一下機關有沒有意見第三案跟第四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7812.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7838.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
還有第10案3、4、10這三個已經溝通完畢了嘛那請問一下機關如果沒有意見的話那我們是不是3、4、10是依照修正後的組決議通過同意嗎各位好同意好那我們就直接處理第5案到第9案第一幕的一般行政那請問一下提案的黃國昌有沒有要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7840.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7864.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我說明一下上次質詢的時候已經有講過了這個所謂的辦理部外聯繫考察及新聞發布等相關經費其實我一開始的時候我完全不懂做這個要編經費幹嘛你要開記者會就開記者會啊你要編經費要做什麼結果搞了半天是在經營媒體關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7868.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7894.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
現在連基層的檢察官都在破口大罵請最高檢察署的開課教授一下要怎麼經營媒體關係啊就經營媒體關係的方式是什麼帶出去吃吃喝喝過夜整個考察的行程我上次已經貼給部長看啊看完了以後部長說我們要利用不同的場合不同的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7896.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7898.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
來做溝通來做宣導事實上那個行程看出來在高鐵站辦簡報為什麼在高鐵站辦簡報等車的時間混一混真正的時間是要出去吃喝玩樂堂堂的法務部有必要透過這樣的方式去經營媒體關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7925.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7953.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
負責對外發言的鄉業檢察官該讓社會大眾知道的就發新聞稿啊不該讓社會大眾知道的就不要處理啊經營媒體關係經營成什麼樣子我之前講過啦大家對於詐騙是深惡痛絕啊我那時候在追IMB的案子我是一個公民的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7954.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7983.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我沒有拿任何公家的資源我幫被害人在討公道在追IMB詐騙集團的案子我姑且不論啊你們之前IMB的案子睡了多久睡了多久人家2016年2017年就開始檢舉啦案子辦到不見欸搞了半天原來是因為曾耀峰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7984.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7989.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
哇 那個政治關係之好啊看得讓人眼花繚亂啦還免費提供陳厚破蔡英文2020年選總統在宜蘭後援會那都沒收錢捏辦一個案子 辦得哩哩啦啦連給陳厚破開的那台車子 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8011.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8037.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
要你們去找還找不到最後還是我派人去找通報你們台北地檢署才知道車在哪拿被害人騙來的錢買的洋酒也是一樣結果我帶秘密證人去台北地檢署作證我多怕那個秘密證人的身份被洩露我知道得那麼清楚知道曾耀峰在選舉的期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8040.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8044.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
開著車子去哪些政治人物那邊送錢知道這種資訊的有多少知道從澳闊開的那台車子撞到人家車子當場落跑打電話給曾耀峰叫他找人來頂替 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8066.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8070.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
結果我帶了個秘密證人去台北地檢署出來靖州刊的獨家內容那獨家內容還是在幫陳歐珀洗地的你們法務部是這樣在經營媒體關係喔要經營什麼媒體關係直來直往直到而行就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8094.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8096.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以這一項我提議全三因為第九案是我提的啦那第九案主要就是我認為說有關法治跟兩公約 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8113.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8136.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
媒體的宣傳費用從112年到現在其實它漲幅高達77.6%那如果說法務部認為說觀看的人數眾多那為什麼還要漲77那如果觀看的效果不佳那為什麼還要漲77那一樣嘛如果認為看的人多那也不用漲那如果沒有人看那你編這個幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8137.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8159.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
法務部還有太多事情需要用到錢所以這個部分我覺得有我的提案說明你問我我講完嘛 等我講完好不好那這個部分我是認為這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8165.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8191.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
有一點就是我希望能夠了解啦就是到底這段時間所推動的這個部分他有什麼樣明顯的作為或是有什麼樣的成效或相關的研習啦課程等等的那就回到我今天開會前因為剛剛人數不夠那開會前我有提到因為我這次有提很多案子但是法務部都都沒有派人來跟我就是談論這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8193.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8215.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那我覺得這可能對立法院也不是很尊重那我還是希望說法務部能夠趕快跟我們溝通一下我們有意見的地方不是說我們一定什麼東西都要刪除或保留但是至少要讓我們知道那個效果怎麼樣或是你有這個作為的原因是什麼那我們才能夠知道說這個預算到底該留還是不該留那鍾委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8218.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8240.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
謝謝主席,因為剛剛主席以提案人身份在說明,我怕主席沒有注意到,先請求發言權我想對於,現在討論的是第五案到第九案,剛剛分別有兩位提案委員做了說明那不好意思,首先對於剛剛主席的發言,我有點,提案人的說明有點驚訝如果成效不髒,那憑什麼要調高預算?如果成效很好,那就更不需要調高預算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8241.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8265.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那我覺得這樣的邏輯真的要注意一下如果現在一般的上班族如果遇到老闆面對他加薪的時候如果表現很好付你這個薪水又值夠啦如果表現不好幹嘛要加薪水所以我覺得這個邏輯用在預算審查上還不是說完全不對但是我規格的我們會具體來討論到底是哪個部分成效不彰可以透過預算審查來加以要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8266.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8286.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那至於剛剛有委員提到 我看到我們的預算書第50頁大概就講的就是這個所謂的研討暨進修業務那麼他寫在說明欄的括號6 第三點的括號6辦理部外聯繫考察及新聞發布等相關經費1476000元 就是1476000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8290.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8302.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那當然因為後面還有其他的包括辦理所謂的新聞語情匯報及多媒體簡報業務53萬元那我相信做一個政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8303.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8330.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
二級機關那麼他本身就有相當多他要跟透過媒體來跟民眾發布的那我個人也好奇因為提案委員所提到的說因為他這裡面的說明是部外聯繫考察及新聞發布但是在委員的提案說明變成是招待媒體吃喝玩樂入住高檔飯店享用無菜單料理喝酒歡唱 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8330.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8343.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那因為這樣的內容的確如果確有實情但是我們希望那個照片有人說照片能說話其實我們現在都很知道一張照片要表達一個情境那是不是有足夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8345.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8369.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
支撐這些描述如果真有這些 那麼法務部的政風要去調查因為我們媒體現在都潔身示愛包括我們目前立法院所有的媒體的從業人員其實呢 他們都是以新聞工作為主會來跟包括委員接觸 跟委員的助理接觸其實也都是基於新聞採訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8370.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8387.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
至於私下他們有因為認識了要去做一些聯誼那也是私下的事情但是如果用公務預算支出那一般來講不管我是在作為立法委員也好或者說我過去在機關服務也好我們通常都是在記者節 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8388.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8407.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
因為記者本身公會有他們的活動我們就類似參加各種行業的公會的活動我們都會去參與有時候也會有一些制證紀念品這樣的行為我不曉得這樣的預算內容是在做這樣的事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8408.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8417.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那至於說後面還有一個辦理第七項辦理立法院各委員會自所屬機關考察聯繫協調等業務52萬元按兩個會期每個會期26萬元那我就更緊張了如果同樣的描述 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8425.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8447.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
部外聯繫考察新聞發布跟所謂的各委員會到各所屬各機關考察聯繫協調等業務萬一也因為被形容成吃喝玩樂入住高檔飯店享用無菜單料理喝酒歡唱那我想啊我們身為立法委員去參與考察的時候我們都要很謹慎那麼部會他們所致用的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8447.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8464.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們要當心在當下中午吃飯的時候端杯舉個飲料會不會就被人家拍照說我們立法委員跟考察的部會在那邊喝酒歡唱等等等的事情所以我真的覺得有這樣的面對這樣的一個指摘啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8464.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8480.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
其實呢我們法務部在執行相關預算的時候要很清楚我首先要再強調現在我們新一代的媒體的從業人員都很洁身自愛絕對不是我們印象中過去以前可能曾經有過的類似用所謂的吃吃喝喝 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8480.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8504.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
就能夠去影響他們的新聞報導方向或許過去也不多但是偶有聽聞但是過去的那種印象如果要套用在現在的媒體同業人員身上我覺得不宜不會重有這樣的想法也不應該最後有沒有這樣的事實應該要查明不然的話你們第六項辦理這些聯繫會被這樣的指摘那未來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8505.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8534.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
立法院各委員會到法務部的所屬機關去進行考察我們也很擔心被冠以這樣的一個只需物有的莫須有的一些扭曲的形象我們也很擔心所以這個務必要說明清楚 以上好 黃委員好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的指教喔剛剛我聽到鍾嘉斌委員說只需物有莫須有其實我質詢的時候就已經質詢過了是不是只需物有莫須有 來我們先看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8537.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8561.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
113年就是2024年啊參訪宜蘭地區司法機關活動行程表早上9點50到11點啊出發11點到下午2點業務簡報及午餐臨美球場會議室臨美球場就是礁溪臨美高爾夫球場邊吃飯邊簡報結束了以後下午2點 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8565.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8587.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
去金車水技水產養訓去看生技水產養殖研發中心我是不曉得跟法務部有什麼關係啦在結束以後前往礁溪飯店下午四點以後自由活動一路到晚上 沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8588.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8613.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
入住交西林美那邊的飯店接下來以後呢前往國際傳統藝術中心參訪國際傳統藝術中心早上去國際傳統藝術中心玩中午去吃午餐吃午餐下午去哪裡去雅典果子工廠參訪雅典果子工廠然後最後呢就解散回來了這樣的行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8617.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8645.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我說是吃喝玩樂公不公道社會大眾有一把尺嘛如果納稅的人覺得我們法務部這樣錢這樣花要增進媒體關係加強業務宣導那我今天提案刪這筆預算受傷的人是我大部分的公民都覺得鍾嘉賓講得很有道理啊這個錢不要刪啊那我刪了受傷的是我嘛但我的立場很清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8646.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8669.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你搞這什麼東西啊全三這就是我的立場好那這樣子就是案號五到九那這部分請問一下機關有沒有要回應其實第五案的這個一個費用最主要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8671.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8694.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
還是新聞發布記者會的招待還有記者室的一個修繕我想這個是有關於媒體的這部分的一個費用的一個對外的一個支付那這個預算的一個編制最主要那當然我也有提到就是那個記者司法記者參訪這部分那這部分事實上是佔比是以去年度去年是21萬21萬這個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8697.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8709.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以這個在占比事實上不是全數說是用來用來做一個媒體的一個參訪那其實媒體參訪他其實他有到實際上的一個一個效果因為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8711.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8726.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
實地上的一個透過實地的一個方式跟交流可以讓媒體了解這個業務的推動那我想這個不是說我們單純的發新聞稿或這樣的可以達到效果用實地的參法去做給媒體更了解我們業務推動的一個情形那當然這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8729.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8740.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個有些安排其他行政我想這個是一個附帶最主要還是要做一個一個實地一個參訪那做以上的一個補充我每次建議說這部分是不是還是要多支持黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8745.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8771.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我本來想保留就算了啦剛剛我聽部長這樣講說最主要的是實地參訪你可不可以具體說明一下你們去年去宜蘭的實地參訪是去參訪什麼去去參訪雅果子工廠還是去參訪宜蘭傳統藝術中心還是去參訪江西臨美高爾夫球場還是去參訪網工手作無菜單料理你到底參訪什麼啊我看不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8773.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8791.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
啊你作為一個法務部部長我客觀的行程都唸出來給你聽了你還繼續的用麥克風跟全國人民講所以我們在做實地參訪其他都是附隨的沒有喔其他的才是主要的那你到底參訪了什麼可以跟大家說明一下嗎第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8792.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8818.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那你說啊這裡面一百多萬參訪只有花二十幾萬沒有關係啊我是很講道理的人我給法務部機會反正這個案子要保留正式處理以前把二零二四年這一百多萬花到什麼地方去一筆一筆細項交上來合理的我會幫你們留下來其他的全部刪除我給法務部機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8822.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8841.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好那這樣子的話那我想說就五到九案大家意見如果不一致我們就予以保留好那第一幕一般行政提案案號第三案至第十案第三四十案改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8843.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8863.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那第五到九案保留送協商那我們接著處理第二幕法務行政提案案號第十一案至第三十一案那我們請提案人黃委員您有要說明嗎出國考察的費用台灣民眾黨黨團的立場在這個會期就是嚴審 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8867.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8880.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
就是嚴審那法務部每一年都有派員出國的計畫派員出國的計畫去年是編了572萬今年編到799萬去年572萬的效果在哪裡我們還沒有看到今年就大幅膨脹到799萬我完全不曉得它的必要性跟正當性在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8897.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8914.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
2024年說因應高齡社會的監護制度與相關身份及財產法制派日本考察我把考察報告看完了然後呢然後呢法務部目前是對於監護制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8916.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8936.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
去日本考察完回來了以後然後呢我們有看到然後啊去日本看完了還不夠今年要繼續去哪裡去韓國日本韓國看完了是後年要去哪裡去美國大後年去加拿大再往後去歐洲看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8939.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8948.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以針對有關於派員出國考察799萬6千元刪除600萬元那請問翁委員好針對那個防護部出國考察的費用那麼這次114年編列799萬那本席這邊是建議要 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8970.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8980.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
簡列200萬那主要的原因也是我看到了這個法務部的出國報告因為我們有查詢的公務出國報告資訊網然後以計畫主辦機關是法務部我們來進行查詢從2021年到2024年的年底那搜尋了只有26筆的報告資料可是呢你們在每一年的預算書從110年到122年這三年的這個當時所編列的這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8999.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9027.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
加起來有70項然後實際最後這三年的出國報告計劃只有16項所以到底你們執行的狀況是怎麼樣那麼為什麼你們都編列了很多的這個出國的預算計劃可是實際上我們看到的這個出國報告計劃卻沒有那麼多還是說是放在什麼地方讓我們不是很清楚的可以知道你們的出國報告計劃的執行情況那麼另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9029.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9046.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們有比較你們在113年跟114年的訪問派員的出國計劃其中有一個叫歐洲司法網路會議歐洲司法網路會議這三年都有派員出席可是這明明就是一個網路會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9049.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9062.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
還是說你們是翻譯有問題叫司法網絡嗎還是司法網絡如果說它是網絡會議為什麼要派員出國那麼雖然而且夏季冬季都有對這個部分的話其實可能要請你們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9063.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9088.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
可是你們在自己的出國計畫是寫歐洲司法網路會議所以這到底是個什麼會議這個不是很清楚另外就是你們112年編列到APEC的反貪腐的即透明化工作小組會議當時只有編3萬1千多但到114年卻要暴增到18萬兩年暴增六倍不知道是不是合理那麼同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9091.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9118.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
剛剛有講到了考察高齡化監護制度剛剛黃委員有說你們是去日本那去了日本之後呢考察回來情況怎麼樣你們下年度要再去韓國那麼這個地方的話可能都要請你們一併說明謝謝那另外還有提案人我們先讓提案人說明好不好就是鍾嘉斌委員有提案那陳俊文也有提案請問一下兩位有沒有要補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9119.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9146.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好 陳委員陳委員有沒有要補充說明沒有喔 因為你們的部分是改那個主決議所以就不用嘛就不用嘛好 那那個中昭委這邊也不用嘛好 謝謝那另外還有那個羅委員你的部分有沒有要補充說明你的部分應該是第29案還有第幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9149.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9150.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
15 15也有15然後21還有一個29對一起說 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9160.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9178.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
首先在15案那我們這邊是希望凍結這個預算1200萬那主要是也是還是一樣就是對法務部一個督促因為事實上大家知道最近這棄保潛逃的問題是甚受民眾關注那 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9180.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9203.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們在法務行政底下包括規劃檢查制度督導檢查業務等等我希望能夠勉勵法務部在棄保潛逃是兩個地方上你們實際上是沒有很明確的作為讓我覺得需要再改進第一個當然就是說不管是陳啟玉也好或者是說林秉文也好他所涉及的棄保潛逃的這個相關的問題你會發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9206.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9223.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我們的法務部不能夠防範重大嫌犯潛逃然後潛逃後也沒有辦法用最近的照片像陳啟玉就是這樣來方便幾名指認辨識這些在督導上的一些缺漏我覺得法務部要再檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9224.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9249.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那第二個就是說也可以看到就是說基本上我們會發現事實上在棄保檢討的法制的立法工作上我覺得法務部基本上簡直是擺案兩個字來形容完全沒有任何的作為搞到最後行政院也沒有版本變成是還要我們立法委員來去幫忙來去補這個法制上的漏洞那我們在審查過程當中其實我也看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9250.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9275.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們那個民進黨委員 我們莊委員也講到說你們不能當評論員啊他說這個做法好像不好 那個做法不好那可是實際上你們也沒拿出做法那明明司法 妨害那個司法公正罪也好 棄保檢討也好都是司法國師會議裡面當中的結論那為什麼說今天法務部的作為我覺得是有待加強了那我就繼續講17案繼續講嘛 OK好什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9280.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9291.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那17案其實是另外一個我覺得今天對法務部我要表達我的不滿的意見就是我們現在的所謂的偵查不公開變成了偵查大公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9292.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9319.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以在於辦理法務事務業務商業務費當中這個部分那我是希望能夠凍結預算10%那能夠請這個法務部向司法法治委員會提出專案報告同意或使得動之那這個我跟部長已經交流過非常久但我也可以提讓部長你今天說真的你可能你也只能這樣講而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9320.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9332.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
但是我真的看到我們在偵查不公開這件事情上荒腔走板到我覺得無言以對我覺得法務部都無言以對那我舉幾個例子就是說你會看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9334.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9350.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這個偵查不公開本來就是一個無罪推定跟保障被告權利的重要制度根本就形同虛設那麼我們在2019到2023年平均每年檢討偵查不公開是1450件可是2024年的上半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9351.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9373.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
事實上已經被大家提出來有可能違反偵查不公開有這樣的一個之餘的案件數是高達2035件半年內的數字超過全年簡直可以稱爲偵查亂公開元年而從2019年到現在將近1萬件的偵查不公開的案件只有16個人受到行政懲處比例只有0.17% |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9376.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9397.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那我再多次在質詢法務部的時候我都覺得部長都是一個萬用招對我啊都說通通不是檢察官放的就結束啦那我常在講一件事情偵查部公開部長也承認他是涉及泄密罪是犯罪問題已經是犯罪的問題了那犯罪偵防這個法務部也是與有折焉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9398.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9419.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那就像說今天假設竊盜案件 詐騙案件 橫行那我也不可能說今天問部長說奇怪了 竊盜案件 詐騙案件那麼多結果呢 一萬件 最後只有0.17%的案件有處理然後部長跟我講一句說不是檢察官偷的 也不是檢察官詐騙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9420.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9444.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那難道就能夠交代今天普遍泛濫的詐騙問題嗎不可能嘛但是我想說今天很明顯全國老百姓只要有眼睛還長眼睛甚至在野黨委員或是我們今天行政官員偵查大公開就是鐵針針的事實幾乎在每個案件上的偵查都大公開所以我今天也是覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9446.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9470.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
在法務部的預算上當然法務部作為犯罪的所謂的一個我們的所謂的守門員就是來為我們治安把關非常重要的一環他當然是預算是需要啦可是我還是希望透過不管是用凍結的方式用刪減的方式希望法務部真的是再加把勁那另外再來是我講那個29案是要到29了嗎OK 29 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9477.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9499.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
二九案的話也是針對這個法務行政向下辦理國際及兩岸事務法律事務的業務費國外旅費的這個編列359萬那我這邊是認為說實際上沒有看到這個所謂的非常強的必要性這個部分我覺得的事宜不夠清楚所以我認為說這個預算應該要凍結30%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9504.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9527.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
中召委跟吳委員稍微等一下我先問完那個提案的部分因為還有一個第30案齁因為那個林思敏委員沒有來但是那個翁委員你有連署那第30案的部分不知道翁委員有沒有要補充不好意思我剛剛忽略了我好像13、14案沒講因為我以為是一個案子那你就一起講我們讓提案委員講完然後我們再讓各位發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9529.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9545.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那麼我剛剛針對第十 我剛剛只講了第十二案然後接下來是第十三案 第十三案呢主要是我們考我有看到就法務部其實編列了一些這個法務行政的費用包含像是要做一些文件的翻譯 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9546.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9564.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
還有購買法學的相關從書、經費以及要辦理各式各樣不同的研習費用那麼在辦理研習特別是在辦理研習經費的部分其實有很多的會議研習的內容是重複的 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9565.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9577.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
其實它可以合併辦理那麼業務有重疊之餘所以我這裡提出來就是就辦理這個相關業務研習的部分原來是編列總共10項編列了206萬那我減列50萬那至於剛剛講的像翻譯的部分因為其實它主要是要翻譯這個FTA出版的洗錢防制相關引件指引文件翻譯費這個部分的話就保護部人才記記了而且現在其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9594.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9601.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
用很多的軟體就可以自動翻譯然後你們再去查核再重新再去檢閱所以我認為說這筆108萬的這筆錢是可以節省下來所以全數刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9610.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9626.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那麼至於在國外的這個旅費的部分總共是編了149萬參加國際檢察官協會年會以及參加美國的州檢察長的協會這個部分的話有重複編列的情形所以就刪減檢察長協會的部分是42萬以上這是第13案那麼至於第14案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9637.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9646.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這裡主要是涉及到律師這邊也是與法務行政費用有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9651.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9655.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那麼看到這裡就是這個有關於律師值錢的委外訓練費用編了331萬過高那麼所以在這裡就凍結50萬那避免不當使用而且你們到底訓練些什麼這個其實也必須要說明清楚到底委外細項還有在查會選等等這些沒宣的費用就像本席剛剛所講的有關於這個媒體宣傳的成效也不明也必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9676.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9700.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
提出這個相關預算制用的細目 至於就說捐助像是推展這個法律GU 辦理毒品防治 大學服務社等相關的經費 那麼事實上這些部分這個也不是很清楚 到底當時畢業的狀況怎麼樣 所以我這裡提出來就是就250萬的預算 然後總共就是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9705.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9727.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
本席在這裡提出要檢列250萬然後凍結641萬我們病情防護部要兩個月內向市委會這裡提出報告之後才可以解凍好 以上您還有說是林思明委員的是不是對 第三十案我們先把我們先讓那個提案人先說明完之後然後我們大家再來討論第三十案 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9738.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9756.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
第三十案的部分同样是针对法务行政的费用因为这里有编列了补助毒品防治特别收入基金那么可是根据高检署今年所发布的资料里面什么国内卡西同类毒品及大麻石油人口数然是呈现增加的趋势 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9761.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9789.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那麼此外呢從2018年到2022年間的統計數字也呈現出適用毒品的受刑人的再犯率很高所以由此可見國內毒品氾濫吸毒的犯刑人的戒癮治療以及毒品防治的宣導宣導不彰那麼有改進的必要所以在這裡就是提案凍結預算5%然後兩個月內要求保護部要提出書面報告以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9792.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9816.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
因為我自己的部分有四個 那我就很簡單的講一下大概主要也就是說我是19 20 27跟28那主要是第19案大概主要就是大陸地區的旅費因為我看不到詳細的資料也看不到有任何執行的成效我覺得跟大陸地區現在的互動已經狀況沒有很好而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9817.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9845.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
雙方也沒有什麼有效的交流所以是這個部分我認為說我需要看到有實際效果或執行的狀況的資料之後我這邊才能夠決定是不是那個要解除這個凍結那二十案也是二十案是國外旅費的部分那一樣當然你們有列了很多像亞太房子洗錢APG等等的這些或是簽署一些司法互助 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9845.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9859.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
但這個部分一樣我也沒有看到詳細的資料那我並不會反對這因為當年我也曾經因為這樣出國去簽了思考互助有協助過所以我知道你們在做什麼但是我要看到資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9861.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9887.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那27案一樣也是大陸地區的那個費用那狀況跟剛剛我說的幾乎一樣另外就是說到底我們現在還有沒有從大陸地區接人犯回來到底還有沒有這樣子做那如果有的話麻煩數據或者是個案給我一下讓我了解那第28案狀況也是一樣因為我們現在雖然說有跟許多國家簽一些司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9888.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9913.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
互助的協定但是我們簽署的國家到底跟我們台灣有關法務部所管轄的業務範圍有沒有相關聯譬如說你如果跟一個很根本就跟我國犯罪無關的國家簽了一個司法互助的話那這個東西我們就去考量他的成本跟他我們所得到的效益因為譬如說以跨國詐騙來說好了他主要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9914.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9938.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
國家可能也都是在某些特定地區譬如說東歐或者是東南亞的某些國家那我們今天如果所簽的司法互助是對我國打擊犯罪沒有重大關聯性的話那我們是不是需要有類似像這樣的支出那還有就是說我國向他國詢問相關資料的時候他國到底有沒有回應因為這一點我以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9938.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9962.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我以前發過很多文啊 透過外交部出去那幾乎沒有一個國家理過我所以我也要了解一下就我們的司法困境 我可以了解但是麻煩給我一個相關的數據我國司法的困境 我不會怪法務部或檢察官因為這是國家沒有辦法克服的問題那當年我很清楚 那現在我也很清楚所以我只需要說相關的資料那我看完之後 那我當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9963.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9983.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
覺得有必要使用的我就不會有任何意見那就回到我剛剛所說因為都沒有人來跟我談過這段時間完全沒有那我覺得你們看不起我沒關係啦那但是既然事情發生了那是不是還是來跟我溝通一下沒有我跟你講各位委員如果他們不理你你會不會開心我覺得一樣啦將心比心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9984.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9995.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
因為我不會亂刪相關的資料為什麼要這個我都有講得很清楚那我們這邊提案的就是補充說明完畢那我們請吳委員然後吳委員完就是中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9998.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10026.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我是第一我當立委第九年那我過去八年在教育文化委員會所以我對教育文化委員會的預算我非常了解因為每一年審那我今年是第一次在司法法制委員會然後很多東西是重新學習那這個會期又是第一次審預算所以審預算對於每一個立委來講就是把預算書好好讀好這是最基本的功課 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10027.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10050.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那現在講到出國旅費這件事情剛剛黃國昌委員要把700多萬大筆一砍600萬他就預算書對於出國旅費是從92頁一直到112頁那黃國昌委員的提案他顯然只看了前面兩頁叫做考察的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10051.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10071.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
整個法務部的出國旅費分八大部分第一部分是考察第二部分是定期會議第三部分是參加不定期會議第四部分是參與國際的司法談判第五是給予我們同仁的進修第六是進行相關的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10071.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10098.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
第七是我們也有派人去實習到不同的國家的機構去做實習第八部分是兩岸的司法互助另外用一個chapter來處理所以說要一個一個看黃國昌委員他只看了考察然後就說啊考察你去日本看了這個高齡的這個監護制度啊你做了什麼如果一趟考察回來就可以把一個政策全部改掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10099.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10118.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
哇 那這政府還蠻神奇的考察是交流是不斷的去累積然後促成政策所以非常遺憾他只針對他預算書你好歹把這個部分你要砍預算把四十幾頁看完吧你看了第一頁就考察就是自己覺得考察都是在亂花錢都是在吃喝玩樂 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10119.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10140.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以就是大筆一山幾乎就把你砍掉所以請大家就事論事所以在考察的部分你們去做了很多交流明年要去韓國要去德國要去歐盟然後還有這個司法精神醫療處遇的交流計畫也是排定的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10140.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10165.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
第二部分我真的觉得台湾作为一个在外交上非常弱势的国家我们要想方设法让所有的政策所有的部门都可以带着这个国家去打国际杯就是透过国际的交流在司法的部分我们透过国际的合作透过国际的跨国性的犯罪我们一起来加入我们来作为一个有效的国际犯罪侦办 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10166.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10189.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
司法互助的貢獻者這是我們的責任這是我們的使命所以我看到你們的定期會議我非常支持啊定期會議的部分我們除了要定期參加國際檢察官協會的年會我們除了要參加尤其洗錢洗錢這是現在跨國犯罪大家都強化的所以在洗錢我們加入這個APG |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10190.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10217.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
亞太房治洗錢組織我們每年都要去與會然後要去報告要去交流要去互相交換我們的這個金融洗錢犯罪相關的作為那這些東西我認為我們都應當支持啊我們要去參加WTO的諮商會議因為智慧財產權的很多法律上的徵送我們要跟國際接軌對不對然後呢這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10219.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10247.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
在定期會議的部分定期會議一定要支持因為在每一個國際長年舉辦的司法相關的組織裡頭我們要扮演重要的角色一定要長年參與我過去在教育文化部門我最在乎文化部因為我們的外交是弱勢我們可以參加聯合國UNESCO向下的各個博物館的組織各個有形文化資產無形文化資產的組織我們每年要想方設法去加入去與會 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10249.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10253.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個是定期會議非定期會議的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10255.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10282.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
非定期會議的部分更多了我們可以去練習參與很多的不定期會議也特別跟渥小林委員報告您剛剛在說的這個EJN歐洲司法網絡會議它是European Judicial NetworkNetwork不是網路是那個國家之間的網絡會議然後是透過這個會議我特別去查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10284.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10302.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
1998年成立正式運作的歐盟第一個為了司法合作而建立的機制台灣在2016年正式來出任EJN的聯繫窗口但因為我們跟歐盟的關係要再持續的努力所以我們就強力的每年都要來參與它的運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10305.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10333.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以在不定期會議除了剛剛被翁委員把網路誤以為是網路會議所以不用出國這個會議之外還有APEC反貪腐及透明化工作小組這都是我們重點的工作然後當然亞太防治洗錢組織的不定期會議我們要定期參與第三大類叫做談判國際的談判對於司法互助引渡或是遣送受刑人的條約協定的談判我們定期都要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10334.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10352.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以出國旅費很大一部分在這些談判然後呢出國費用還包括進修包括研究如果委員們有詳讀預算書就不會只讀了第一頁然後把所有的出國旅費打成就是出國考察一項而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10353.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10370.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我一定要講這麼多的定期組織的會議不定期的國際會議都是強化台灣作為一個司法國際性的司法互助的貢獻者我們要承擔的責任好最後一個剛剛因為昭偉有提到這個兩岸兩岸的交流是112頁有所列 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10375.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10399.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那主要的工作是兩岸共同打擊毒品電信詐騙人口販運金融犯罪等具體案件合作的機制大概在這個脈絡之下我們要去兩岸的司法互助司法部的工作會談或者是在香港澳門洽談司法互助業務跨國移交受刑人的努力洽談這些部分所以在112頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10401.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10422.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
如果召委認為資料不夠完整你們可以去提供但是我想兩岸在犯罪的合作不管政治立場如何我們都要一起在司法互助的部分兩岸共同來努力所以我說了這一些時間希望委員在提案處理預算的時候真的不要看著後面的開啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10424.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10442.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
整個考察明明包含定期會議不定期國際會議談判進修研究實習跟兩岸的交流然後把它莫須有的打成考察考察考察好像都很不正當都在玩考察帶回來什麼成績我覺得這樣真的是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10442.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10471.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
不太正確在審議預算的思維所以從92頁到112頁黃國昌委員如果您可以看一下這些完整的資料也許您可以對於這個預算可以進行更合理的一些主張否則799萬大筆一砍砍了600萬那我們的國際會議都不要參加了我們對於國際司法組織的國際協力的工作都不要做了這個我是真的覺得我很在乎好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10474.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10496.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
謝謝吳校委員 我也很認同吳校委員剛說的兩岸共同打擊犯罪真的很重要但是現在就是理想很豐滿 現實很骨感因為現在好像也都沒有嘛那或是不是說 因為我是凍結而且是只有一定的比例我不是說全把你們刪掉而不認同所以是不是可以給我過去這一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10498.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10522.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
到底有從那個大陸地區有移送多少人回來這些數據能夠給我一下或者是跟大陸地區那邊有做什麼樣的司法互助或者是犯罪共同的打擊這個數據能夠給我那當然如果給我的話我是非常支持兩岸共同打擊犯罪的所以我剛我是認同吳教委員說這個東西很重要好那是不是我還沒講 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10531.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10549.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
主席很不好意思因為從剛剛羅委員在開始做提案說明的時候我就舉手但是我想尊重主席的裁量其實現在拖了這麼久可能剛剛程序上的詢問也都冷掉了因為本來我是想要提醒或請教主席因為從第11案 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10551.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10563.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
到第31案這個雖然都是法務行政第二幕但它當中包含了出國計畫包含了國外旅費包含了大陸地區旅費 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10564.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10591.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那因為過去在預算審查的時候因為今年以來應該說去年在審今年度的預算的時候大概這些項目都是通案處理所以我本來想要請教主席說是不是這些項目就是通案處理然後我們再討論其他非屬這些國外旅費大陸地區旅費的其他的提案不過主席就通通都推進了所以我就不曉得現在原來主席的方式是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10594.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10620.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
那我現在就這幾個以外我並沒有指責的意思我是說你要了解一下主席的處理方式因為有關這個第二幕的部分主席我還沒講完我只是說你不是問我嗎我說我本來要問的啊但是現在都已經講完了好那我就簡單說因為有關出國這個費用部分因為這個黃委員跟翁委員他們非常重視這一塊所以我就讓他們把這個細項把它處理清楚了解所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10621.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10636.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
就是第二幕全部討論包含國外旅費跟大陸地區旅費跟不是國外旅費跟大陸地區旅費的部分都一併討論我大概知道你的意思了啦那麼那現在因為本席要談的是非屬於國外旅費跟大陸地區旅費的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10637.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10653.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那因為呢這裡面有包括我看到的就剛剛翁委員有提出來的他的第十三案還十四案那這些呢其實都可以深入來討論包括主席本身的提案您的提案我也很重視您的提案我剛剛看到了也非屬於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10655.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10669.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
呃...旅費啦齁我現在因為已經很多了要再找一下主席的提案是在...呃...您兩個一個是大陸地區旅費一個是國外旅費齁我剛剛聽您說好像還有一個也都是國外地區跟大陸地區的旅費嘛齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10670.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10689.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那我就就我們翁委員所提出的部分來表達一下意見那翁委員這邊他所提出的13案他主要的是這個關於AI他就是關於翻譯的文件那我剛剛彷彿因為已經時間隔了很久了本來想要馬上來就教於我們提案委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10690.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10706.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
因為我本身非常關心AI的運用那事實上在委員會的時候也多次提出AI的應用那包括我們立法院的預算在審議的時候我也覺得在翻譯的部分事實上如果能夠導入AI其實也可以有效的來運用那因為這裡翁委員他是說這個辦理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10710.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10728.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
FATF的這個洗錢房制洗錢房制我們想這是一個國際性的問題國際性重要的犯罪問題每個國家主權國家都非常的重視那這裡面呢提到的相關文件翻譯費用那可是翁委員認為呢人才濟濟啊節省工廠不需委外 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10729.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10749.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那我想目前我們的法務部的各個專職人員大家都各有所思還有各個的職長那麼如果說要請他們因為略通或者精通其他不同國家的語言那麼就要來負擔這個翻譯的工作我是覺得基於我們的核心能力應該專注在 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10751.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10779.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
核心業務上那像這種是屬於委外辦理即可的其實我們應該討論的是說如何讓有限的經費做最大效益的發揮而非反向去思考說好像自己家裡的人可以做那就通通不要請人家做不要忘了我們每個工作人員在法務部的都是各有專業不會因為他精巧他國的語言他就要來承擔額外的翻譯的工作所以我覺得這個思維這樣說下去恐怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10780.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10796.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
會破壞了我們整個機關內部的專業分工其實有些時候就算有些人他外語很強但你叫他就翻譯的工作是大材小用我不是說翻譯是比較小材我是說各有專長那麼一個閒守我們司法行政業務的人只因為他通曉外語 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10797.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10817.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
要他撥出額外的時間去做這個翻譯的工作這個是一個資源上的挫制啦我們要從比較利益的優勢的角度經濟學上的比較利益讓最擅長的人去做更專注的事情而不是讓一個他應該在本質上發揮的人只是因為他有十項全能叫他每一項都要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10818.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10846.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這反而拖垮了他最專長的項目上的一個工作效益所以我個人是本來就這個提案本來想要來表達意見的那也不好意思翁委員拖了這麼久那我就是針對認為說這個108萬這個其實呢待會如果法務部有機會說明的話我還是希望說其實目前的AI的運用相當的發達跟迅速那如果說能夠善用這樣的一個工具或許傳統的委外發包 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10847.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10874.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
或許就可以透過一個軟體的採購就可以解決你們這個問題而讓我們這些部內的各種的積極的人才他或許不是做第一手的翻譯他只要做相關的檢核就可以了我是覺得該花的錢還要花那不要把我們專業的人力做一些非他本職業務所應該做的一些浪費跟虛職那以上這樣的意見來就教於提案委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10877.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10903.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好 那翁委員既然這個鐘委員這個請我回答這些問題那我就來講一下FTA出版的洗錢防治相關指引文件根據我剛剛上午查了一下大概就是有防治洗錢金融行動工作組織評鑒方法論等等這些文件是不是還是說你們是有什麼樣的特別的文件要翻譯根本如果說是這些指引文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10903.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10911.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
基本上它就是個更新版可能之前它就已經有提出了那之後的更新也許只是部分內容的更新那麼話說回來現在已經進入AI的時代有太多可用的即時翻譯的軟體不管是在Google或是TradeGPT等等我相信這個保務部的同仁也應該要學習相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10924.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10939.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個軟體的運用更何況你現在洗錢防治相關的這些文件它都是具有高度的專業我不知道你這些是委託給哪一個翻譯社裡面是具有高度專業的法律人士可以去翻譯這些文件而且還編了一百零八萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10941.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10945.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
你今天編了十萬我也就算了編一百零八萬去翻譯這些文件而且看起來只是更新版所以這個部分的話待會請部長這邊做清楚的說明就是你們到底翻譯些什麼那麼為什麼需要花一百零八萬你們自己法務部裡面其實也有些行政同仁像我剛剛講可以運用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10963.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10978.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
科技的軟體一些程式就可以翻了翻了之後你們再去看跟我們台灣的法律用語是不是相一致對這個我還是要強調一點你們現在所編的那些錢都是人民的納稅錢錢要花在刀口上 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10982.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11009.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
能省則省即便它是小錢確實我們司法法制委員會底下所審查的這個機關的預算跟其他交通委員會經濟委員會相比那是小兒科經費是不多但是不能說因為編的錢少所以我們就服編那是本席認為說這個地方還是全要審慎的使用以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11011.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11024.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好謝謝我先宣告一下就是說上午會議時間截止時間將至先做程序宣告上午會議進行至議程所列事項均處理完畢為止好那請黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11026.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11052.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我只有一個簡單的問題喔就是剛剛聽了不同的委員發表的看法我就非常好奇你們現在編這個一百零八萬是要翻譯什麼東西你涉案寫是說洗錢防治相關指引文件嘛那代表的是你們手上已經有這個文件了嘛那這個文件要委外去翻嗎翻需要一百零八萬嗎我省預算很實事求是的你把那個文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11054.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11067.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
等一下提供給所有委員我等一下看完我看非常快的啦我看完就知道編這108萬到底合理不合理是不是我請執行秘書來 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11071.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11086.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我現在就請那個執行秘書來其實網路上就看得到了我現在要不要參考一下那請問一下機關有沒有要回應任何我是不是這個有關你那個一百零八萬這邊我請洗碗飯的執行秘書我沒意見啊就是還有沒有其他要回應的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11090.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11093.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
因為我現在看到的是FATF防止洗錢金融行動工作組織的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11111.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11135.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那我只是打開第一個視窗而已它就有1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1011,12,13,14,14類的文件包括評鑑方法論包括FATF40項建議及注釋然後包括它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11137.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11166.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
當然有更新版到包括防治資助恐怖活動第九項特別建議及注釋包括四十項建議包括是不是這些的話包括打擊清洗黑錢財務行動特別組織的四十項建議及八項特別建議評鑒方法論包括金融機構偵測資助恐怖分子活動的指引包括反恐的金融作戰等等因為這些都有英文版 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11167.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11195.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
每個點進去都有完整的英文版你們是不是在做這些文件的翻譯部長 是不是所以看起來量是挺多的吧你們應該說一下是不是請我喜歡辦的執行秘書可能資料量因為我想說這個省一點這個愛護地球上網其實可以看到相關的這個文件的英文版所以想了解的委員可以參考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11196.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11212.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我就是參考了才看到吳司堯委員好像沒有細讀啊他裡面有對啊是啊他現在要翻譯的是什麼來請說明你們要翻譯的是哪一份是還有方法論呢報告委員吳司行政院行前防治辦公室的執行秘書是可以麻煩看一下麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11216.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11231.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
報告委員我是行政院洗錢房之辦公室蘇珮玉執行秘書跟委員報告其實事實上來講我們有關於FATF的部分去年1.13的部分並不是只有FATFFATF上下下非常多的一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11231.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11254.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
包括去年有八個文件包括透過機關間網絡追回國際犯罪所得這一方面的一個指引還有網路詐欺產生的非法金流它們有相關的一些整個的收集整個全世界各國的資訊也包括濫用投資公民及投資資流權的計畫以及國際全國一致的相互評鑑的追蹤程序裡面的通用程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11255.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11278.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
包括打擊洗錢 包括還有吃恐之無闊還有群眾募資滋恐還有打擊非營利組織的滋恐濫用等等的還包括我們當然有建議跟評鑑方法論那所以這個部分的話我們整個的文件上翻譯其實是非常多的一個文件的翻譯不是只有它的recommendation就是它的建議以及它的methodology評鑑方法論而已以上報告所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11282.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11303.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
你們要翻的東西就除了剛剛講的那個防治洗錢金融行動工作組織憑借方法論的2023年6月更新版之外還有翻其他的就不是像吳四堯委員講的後面的那些嘛十幾個指引嘛是不是是不是對吧所以我就說嘛數頁有專攻嘛這有的時候呢看這些資料還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11304.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11326.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
要有点sense然后才能够去理解对不对那么你们现在翻的就是更新版他到底2023年的更新他跟之前的2022年的更新有什么不同你们自己内部就不能作业吗我也知道说他是可能他更新的幅度只是小部分的你们自己就可以翻译了不是吗其他的你刚刚讲的那些指引文件他是用一个完全全新的一个文件吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11327.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11355.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
看起來應該也不是以我這個長年在法學方面研究我大概知道它可能也都是一個更新的部分對你們自己既然是洗錢防治處你們有這樣的辦公室裡面應該就有這樣的人才對於少部分的這樣的一個更新版自己就可以翻譯了不需要花一百零八萬去委外翻譯以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11358.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11381.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
主席光這個第一項的這個方法論點進去看的話光這個2023年update這個190頁190頁是不是要不要說明一下是不是190頁我永遠可以點進去看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11384.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11387.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
190頁我現在說的就是一個一個來一個一個來一直在打斷我的講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11400.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11411.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我請你看清楚我想再確認一下就你這個表格裡頭有很多有英文版的文件這個108萬絕對不是指在處理剛剛這個190頁的內容吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11418.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11444.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
跟委員報告 其實剛才翁委員指的非常正確就是說實際上我們所報 其實在那個Message那個平均方法論的部分那是個更新那是2020版跟2023年版更新其實這幾年國際規範其實修正非常的快而且非常的多然後其實我們就就更新的部分那實際上我們大部分就剛才講的很多的包括網路詐欺產生的非法金流FATF有一個全世界的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11444.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11463.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
而這個報告的部分其實是翻譯的其他的那個是全新的報告那包括了還有其他群眾募資滋恐的這個情形等等有很多的其他的新的報告所以不是只有在做更新而已那報告的部分其實佔了非常多的一個部分以上報告所以這裡頭的這些很新的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11466.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11482.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
最新的information然後幾十項建議幾十項建議都是因為新的犯罪形態嘛是然後針對新的內容所以不是只針對那個原本的方法論裡頭當然方法論是一個guideline嘛對不對那針對很多新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11484.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11505.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
樣態然後我剛講的國際based on這些國際交流的所有東西所有的conference所有的國際的forum一直在更新不同的各國的新的做法你們都要把這些文件再把它中文跟英文都有嗎是對沒錯就是這個部分的話我們必須要提供即時的進去那委員一直覺得108萬在浪費錢不需要花這麼多你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11507.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11521.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
各位人報告實際上來講我們本身在洗房辦裡面也要定期參與很多的國際會議那我們人其實非常的少才十出頭位而已那我們國際會議以及我們要舉辦一些國際上面的相關的研討會那這個地方的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11522.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11542.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
有關翻譯的部分其實因為現在的一個字其實已經非常就是翻譯費是非常非常高昂然後我們很多的新的翻譯的部分新的報告都要引進國就是從國際引進國內來做一個洗錢防治的一個全面的國際的防護網所以這個部分的話我們確實是有委外的必要性以上報告所以希望就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11547.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11573.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
要把道理講清楚到底多少文件因為我不好意思我自己是外文系畢業的這些外語的人才的培訓其實是很辛苦的不是說我們部內有懂英文的人就可以我是修西班牙文跟日語雙學位的但是我的能力絕對跟可以專業去翻譯司法的內容的專業的國際文件那是完全是兩件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11574.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11601.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
所以我們常常在辦國際論壇都知道尤其那種即時口譯這個人才這個支付這個費用都是非常這是人家的專業跟我會講基本的內容是不一樣所以我覺得尊重專業那108萬就我而言我一個外語系畢業的學生我都認為它不是一個多麼巨額離譜的預算的編列因為都還是核實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11602.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11625.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那如果說有委員覺得一百零八萬是非常非常離譜的就專業的不同語言的翻譯就把他認為是一個要全刪文委員全刪餒你可留一點給人家我們外語系畢業的學生需要需要這些對不對來協力國家全刪餒我是覺得保留啦好不好好黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11631.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11650.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我只有一個很簡單的我剛要的東西什麼時候可以提供因為剛剛大家發言你講很多嘛其他的我也講很多嘛講完了一堆以後我們就回到現實具體的要翻什麼東西等一下什麼時候可以提供給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11651.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11676.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
因為我相信我看一看了以後大概那個是一個什麼樣子因為英文喔level非常的多啦剛剛我簡單上去看了一下那個英文其實不是太複雜的東西啦稍微看一下沒有什麼太大的困難但是我喜歡實事求是嘛具體到底要翻什麼東西等一下硬來我看一看心理就有數了好 莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11680.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11696.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
謝謝趙偉今天審議宣言我覺得很奇怪是你們不去溝通還是你們不去溝通很奇怪因為有一些其實都可以溝通你像比如說兩岸打擊犯罪那個部分我剛好舉手因為趙偉可能剛好沒有看到這個部分我也想了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11697.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11718.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這個部分其實也沒有什麼黨派,我相信也沒有人會去把那個預算給他做組黨,倒也不是說什麼吳昭偉想了解,我也想了解,因為我本來就是認為他也很有這個必要性,其實有一些可以溝通可以了解的,倒其實也沒有必要在這個地方一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11719.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11741.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
大家這邊提問嘛 那有一些一看就是有必要性可是就是有其他委員既然有提案的話 其實也要去做一個說明啦要做一個說明啦那不 今天各位我也是 坐在這裡也要讓人家保留而已啊我也抱歉把人提案說 這個到底有什麼不合理的一個地方那確實是個 沒有去講清楚的話 這個就變成整個預算的一個審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11742.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11759.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
對你們的預算就會比較有點影響跟那個延宕啦那到底合不合理啊這個本來就可以大家來講清楚的啦打擊兩岸犯罪那個部分是不是也不用提供給召委看起來大家認為說比較不合理的地方應該讓大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11760.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11772.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
了解一下我一看不是只有吳宗憲政委那看了合理就放行我認為合理如果他認為不合理我還幹掉他明顯就可以合理的東西我相信大家都很理性的好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11774.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11803.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好 眾召委謝謝主席剛剛那個莊委員的一番一席話那加上剛剛主席一開始就提到了我們預算審議本來就是年度的重頭戲呈如剛剛吳思耀委員所說本席也是第九度參加了預算審查那麼中央政府的預算審查的確是一個重中之重那麼這九年來我也學習了很多那因為我也了解到每個委員都他提案一定有他想要知道的可是剛剛主席一開始就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11804.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11815.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
而這個法務部或相關的機關對於提案委員的提案內容都沒有來溝通說明過這個我就很疑惑了我的提案雖然不多但是每一案我想要知道的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11817.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11844.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
機關都有來想辦法約到時間來當面說明那麼說明的過程當中或許剛剛我們討論的這些事情啊就可以解決了因為以所知所知應該不至於是在我們會議審查的當下所謂是臨時發現的不然的話呢事前呢都可以有機關說明後透過所知透過資料的盧列也不用再耗費委員在那邊提案說等著我覺得今年度我們的預算廠常常有一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11845.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11861.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
其實我們常常在委員會突然看到一個東西這個東西要資料資料怎麼沒有給我我們等資料送達不管是能水主機還是什麼的一些必要的辦公廳設的設備其實這些東西有的上網可以查得到有的跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11863.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11879.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
機關來說明的時候詢問清楚他提供就可以像剛剛那位同仁法務部的同仁他講到的他可能應該專門在承辦這個案件我覺得如果事前有機會向提案委員去做說明到底是單純的英文的普通英文翻譯 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11880.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11896.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
還是有要必要的專業人才能夠了解他的專用術語還是說除了翻譯之外還需要撰寫其他的說明文字這個在翻譯服務上都有不同等級的收費我再強調一次只是單純的英翻中這是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11897.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11917.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
另外涉及到專業的一些專有名詞還要另外抓出來做一個解釋甚至第三種還要對於相關的條文做一些解析那這些都是不同專業不同等級的服務費用當然也會有所差異那只是我還是回歸到莊委員所問的我自己本身我所提案的內容為什麼後來可以改列組決議因為我聽了主管機關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11918.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11942.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
說明之後我覺得他們說明的已經解答我的疑惑了所以我的要求讓他們在組決議當中留為來年度遵行的一個方向那麼至於我所懷疑的事情已經得到清楚之後呢我就不會再堅持要用簡列或凍結的方式來處理我相信每位委員在審查預算的時候都不是以簡列或刪除為能事都是要監督主管業務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11944.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11965.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
他們把他們的業務呢把錢用在刀口上把我們看到過去效益不彰的部分予以改善那麼我們這些錢其實我們只是當人民保守他們的納稅錢這些錢交到政府手上就要善加運用而不是三節後不用政府預算我們三節很多簡列很多不用不是幫人民省錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11967.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11986.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這是一個錯誤的印象我們幫人民省錢是保證他們的錢不會被浪費讓他們所交出來的納稅錢用在刀口上我們行政機關畢竟行政機關所從事的業務就是提升人民的福祉嘛有錢才能提升人民的福祉嘛方法正不正確有無浪費是我們關注的這才是我們省預算的本質那為什麼今天省到這裡又會發生剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11991.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12005.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
包括主席也說的可能張昌主席前一陣子身體危險我們也知道啦可能不太好找那是否法務部有積極的去跟我們包括召委在內的委員去約妥時間去進行說明那不用在這裡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12006.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12024.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
額外的花費很多的時間只是為了要索資其實這些資料剛剛連上網都看得到了我相信如果機關能夠有機會跟委員提案委員說明不需要我們在這邊耗這個時間等候機關去調這些資料啦我真的很誠懇的跟主席建議一下是不是說雖然主席剛剛做了一個宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12024.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12050.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我們今天的議程繼續到那個審議完畢為止但我相信主席還是會給大家午休的時間是不是這些所知的需求我們都請業務機關趕快趁這個時間去跟委員說明或是趕快拿來讓委員看好不好 這是一個建議好 那有關這個部分是這樣因為剛剛中委員有提到那個中招委也有提到 其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12051.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12076.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為我也問過我助理然後就是法務部這邊都沒有任何人來跟我們說約一個時間來談所以這很奇怪啊連個電話都沒有啊那我跟大家報告有關這個出國的這個費用因為我自己很清楚這對國家有沒有幫助在座的孟司長孟玉梅司長我們以前一起去雅加達參加美國政府在那邊開的洗塵 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12077.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12101.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
洗錢防治的會議那這邊的那個執行秘書洗房辦的執行秘書蘇執行秘書我們當年一起去曼谷參加國際檢察官會議所以這個東西我很清楚對國家有一定的幫助但是你要給我資料我們溝通完畢之後我才知道我怎麼做所以我也是用凍結的方式而不是要求刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12102.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12131.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
因為有意需要花的錢我當然支持啊但是我們覺得有不足的地方是不是我們來溝通一下那溝通完畢沒有問題我直接改為主決議今天連談都不用談我覺得是跟剛剛那個中早委說的其實意思是一樣因為這段時間完全沒有我連一通電話或我住連一通電話都沒接到這事情很大條耶 朝委你們沒有去找他說明預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12133.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12142.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
沒有嗎因為趙偉生病可能你們也不敢打電話助理也沒有接到助理沒有嗎主任沒有嗎說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12143.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12170.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
因為我自己感同身受我跟趙偉報告我是司法法治委員會第一年來的我其實對很多同仁都是不熟悉的不像我對教育文化部我都很熟我們的聯絡人大哥我連在路上走在這個走廊上我要去上廁所他多次在廁所前攔截我就為了要跟我說明委員你那個案子兩個案子性質差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12171.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12191.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
要不要併案就昨天前天發生的事情嘛你嘛我要去廁所你還把我攔下來要跟我解釋預算案嗎對不起因為我對大家的姓名我沒有辦法一個一個所以我意思是說我相信他們都會努力想方設法的去跟委員做預算的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12192.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12217.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
別人玩弄啦我想一定有啦因為我自己就感同身受一直是這樣你問我我們辦公室助理也是一直這樣我如果在忙我沒有辦法跟他們見面討論一定會跟助理一個案子一個案子不是不會不會我是你是朝委這絕對不可能我跟你講絕對不可能真的朝委是他們要重中之重又是這麼重量級這樣子所以我覺得因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12219.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12243.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
今天一百多案我們現在是十幾案重點是提案委員我也跟召委做一點小小的這個交換意見我過去也擔任過其他委員會的召委通常是就是就溝通後的結論來做處理那如果今天來這裡又盤古開天每一個案子這樣那今天我們可能要 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12244.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12263.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
要省非常非常久啦所以我覺得這就是預算去溝通的過程那我真的萬萬沒有想過我剛剛一開始不就跟張偉問我們今天大概要開多久嗎啊都溝通過了像我的案子我願意改組決議的或者是有我的堅持這都之前處理過了這是我們省預算的經驗所以時間是不是可以摘一下啊我相信別人說他一定有跟你報告想方設法 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12270.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12281.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
攔截或是跟辦公室助理或主任您再詳查一下我對所有部門公務部門的理解預算會期他們是太辛苦了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12283.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12301.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
也要平反一下啦 我相信一定有啦一定有啦 趙偉沒關係那我們就還是會議進行比較重要喔我跟你講那個都因為這都以前我的長官啦我就不會為難他們啦是怎麼樣我們有沒有做到就把它補起來我也沒有任何意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12306.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12313.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們先處理 第22案是改動200萬 這個機關有意見這你們談好了嗎 沒有意見23案到26案改組決議 請問一下機關有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12324.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12351.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
沒有意見好那第三十案改動一百萬這個部分也都溝通了請問機關有意見沒有意見沒有意見好那其他的部分第十一到第二十一以及二十七到二十九及第三十一這我不知道大家有沒有共識啊有沒有一個共識看統統三還是統統結還是說需要保留看各位委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12352.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12378.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
主席我針對出國旅費的部分因為剛剛有透過很多的討論因為出國旅費好像也會通案處理好像各個委員會應當會要不要一起一併保留就是朝野協商的時候通案會處理我沒有意見我就說我請教各個委員就經驗上也是這樣第二個剛剛那個翻譯費翁委員他們需要翻譯要不然以後有德文翻譯直接請翁委員幫忙就可以省一條108萬要委託給我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12383.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12397.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
可以委託給我的學生嗎我的意思講說其實就是因為它是更新的部分如果今天全部都是新的我覺得委外那也就罷了但是如果是少部分的更新我不知道更新範圍多少更何況就像我講的現在有很多的軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12402.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12423.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
他可以及時翻譯,還不需要你委外翻譯,然後委外翻譯之後你們回過頭來,自己法務部的同仁也要再去查核,再去檢視他翻譯的對不對,對不對,我們自己當學生我們很清楚啊,我過去其實有很多,譬如說要翻西班牙文,翻日文,日文這些我都不會,我也會委外翻,翻回來之後呢,亂七八糟的,根本看不懂。 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12424.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12443.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
最後我還是要委託可能懂日文的懂其他語文的法律系的學生來翻那麼現在因為科技這個工具已經很發達了對 那我 我知道一百零八萬是不多是不多 但是仍然是能審則審對 就是這個原則好 那如果沒有其他 國昌委員有意見嗎那我的案子他們不同意 不同意就保留啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12454.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12465.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那這樣子所以說我們剛剛提到了第11到第21然後27到29及第3C就於保留那我們直接宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12466.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12489.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好那第二幕法務行政提案案號第11案至第31案第23到第26改為主決議第11到2127到2931保留送協商那第二幕法務行政向下辦理檢查行政業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12500.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12514.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
辦理檢查行政業務中獎補助費凍結200萬提出書面報告金同意後 使得凍資補助毒品防治特別收入基金凍結100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12517.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12531.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
等提出書面報告後 使得動之接著處理第三目一般建築及設備提案案號第32及第33案那第32及第33案我們改為主決議 請問一下機關有意見好 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12538.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12548.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
謝謝主席 其實我是提案委員這個提案我也經過事前的溝通同意改為主決議不過因為剛剛有些在改為主決議的內容其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12550.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12578.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
或者說已經跟溝通過了跟提案委員溝通過了那我是建議主席還是可以詢問一下在場委員因為有時候就算是提案委員跟機關已經溝通過了但是還是建議請主席詢問一下如果委員沒有意見就OK那我的提案我當然改主席我沒有意見我是說可能要請主席詢問一下不因為是我同意了那麼機關也同意了我們委員會就照單全收是這樣的意思沒有什麼其他的意思就是這樣而已謝謝中招委 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12579.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12603.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那請問一下第32及第33案改為主決議這個部分各位委員有其他意見補充好那沒有沒有好那我們就第三幕一般建築及設備第32、33案改為主決議那兩案決議內容均為請台灣高等檢察署 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12604.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12628.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
就防詐相關作為提出書面報告故第32第33案改列為第12款第8項台灣高等檢察署自主決議並將決議第一段有關法務部預算文字及第二段手製為自刪除沒有意見的話就修正通過接著處理第5幕司法科技業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12631.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12643.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
提案案號第34第35案我的提案我這部分我說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12644.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12672.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
因為有關這個司法科技業務向下的這個新世代智慧檢查AI科技計畫我們其實編列的費用非常高是高達八九八萬七千元但是據我去了解一下各地檢署就是事辦的這個地檢署他們雖然你們有提供給我們一個是利用AI系統所製作出來的圖表或是書類 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12673.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12689.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
高達數萬件但是我們去了解真正最後使用的可能跟這個數字有一段差距也就是說經由人工智慧所製作出來的圖表跟書類是不是真的有效運用在 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12690.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12717.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那個實際的最後完成的書類上面或者是說我們聽到的非常多的基層的檢察官表示目前的這個系統做出來的書類其實根本不好用因為他現在主要是處理一些檢疫的案件那檢疫的案件檢察官在套用套用那個過往的案例或者是套用格式之後其實那個製作起來比 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12718.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12740.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
人工智慧製作出來的更精確而且速度更快所以我們希望了解一下我這邊希望了解一下就是他所製作出來的書類他只是一個案件 案出來他就會製作出來了但是所製作出來的這個成果運用在實際上面的幫助有多少這部分我希望能夠了解那個 中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12742.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12755.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
謝謝主席 那麼其實AI一直是這陣子以來大家所關注的焦點那我從提案的內容當中有注意到法務部是從110年到112年這三年期間就檢查機關的AI智慧輔助系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12761.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12779.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那麼因為剛好趙薇主席本身也是出自於檢查系統所以您對於這個系統的評價我相信一定有您的親身體驗但也正因為是如此所以我才要想要多請那個歷史機關代表在說明預算的時候呢可不可以就過去這三年的執行的情況因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12781.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12804.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
因為如果機關代表有機會去跟提案委員就是召委有見面過那麼可能他們提供的資料就會比我們現在看到的提案說明更為完整更為豐富那可不可以我請求主席待會如果說真的法務部真的有為了這個提案打算去拜訪我們吳召委的話你們必然是有準備一些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12805.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12822.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那你們打算去拜訪屋召回所要準備的這些資料如果今天也有一些簡要的內容送到委員會來或許我們其他非提案委員也可以了解到提案委員所關注的是否我們可以支持還是機關所希望執行的預算我們認為應該予以支持這個會影響到我們的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12827.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12842.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以我是覺得說剛剛已經提到了如果這些事前要找提案委員溝通的資料都有備妥的話能否現在就能夠有一些內容讓我們看一下因為營職已經三年了嘛那我相信這三年除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12843.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12850.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
提案委員所提的官號1234這些分別如列了大概有1169萬 1100萬 900萬總計經費高達3169萬但是明年度三個年度編列的預算加起來是超過3000萬但是你們明年編列的不到900萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12868.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12892.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
所以反而從我的理解從書面的文章來講是不增反減如果我沒有讀錯的話你們三年間執行了超過三千萬可是明年卻編不到九百萬那這反而讓我們去理解說AI現在變成一個主流趨勢我們或許要提升在AI方面資源的投入運用這樣的科技工具協助減少我們專職人員的負荷 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12895.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12912.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我是覺得這個議題呢那結果我們現在提案委員說還要動你們20%那我都覺得不減不徵還減了那再動個20%那這個業務還要不要做呢還是說真的做的績效很差可能根本是一個錯誤的投資本席都很好奇以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12914.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12937.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
謝謝鐘召委那這樣我另外還有一個就是說希望你們來跟我們說明的時候就是我剛剛提到的第一個就是製作出來的東西檢察官實際拿來試你書類的件數到底有多少我要知道實際的運用第二個還有一個重點就是說我們在那個定義執行型的副表功能那個東西啊那個副表到底有沒有列出個案的犯罪時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12938.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12960.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為大家都很專業很清楚嘛你前科表看不出來 但是定執行型的時候非常重要所以這個副表到底有沒有羅列出犯罪時間這也請拿資料來跟我們討論的時候能夠告訴我好我現在可以請那個 報告主席可以好 如果現在說明可以啊因為這個跟三署案是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12967.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12988.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
主席以及各位委員大家好我是法務部檢察師郭永發那有關於委員剛指教的就有關於我們新世代智慧AI科技延續前期AI智慧輔助功能我們確實是從110年開始執行到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12989.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13018.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那這個有關於110年到112年這個相關的數據我們馬上回去之後馬上會整理給我們委員至於113年的一個部分其實我們是這個增加了這個基礎性的結構資料提升效益包括訓練AI自動產捷這個書類系統以及酒駕還有有關於這個最重要的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13019.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13041.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
炸機犯罪的被害人的這個的副表跟這個車手的副表那跟委員報告有關於這個數據就是從113年的9月16號到去年的12月中旬統計產製的炸機副表 炸機副表酒醉駕車結案書類總共有2562件 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13047.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13068.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
並完成了這個定值行刑的一個付表那這個現在目前事辦的機關有包括桃園地檢署以及這個台中地檢署以及新北還有台北地檢署這四個地檢署在事辦那其實檢察官只要願意應用他就可以上網 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13069.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13082.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
上去下載這些資料至於今年的計畫是包括捐贈資料數位及結構化然後持續的推動有關你這個徵訊筆錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13085.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13109.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我們是希望能夠減輕書記官的製作筆錄的一個pull line看能不能優化我們這個人工智慧系統能夠這個在檢查官詢問的訊問的時候能夠就產製出徵訊筆錄這樣的一個功能來提升偵查的效力另外我們希望也擴大有關於這個詐欺付表 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13110.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13126.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
炸機的這個上手車手以及被害人上手比較複雜的這個護錶其實就我關於炸機護錶的製作其實是佔據我們這個檢察官很多的一個工作量如果這一塊能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13127.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13145.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
比較大量的去解決它其實是可以大量的舒緩檢察官的工作量那有關於這個其他的書類部分就朝著比較大量化重複性的包括毒品、赤道、過失傷害等這些檢疫的案件能夠用AI來產製這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13148.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13161.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這案的書類以上的報告那注意詳細的這個細節部分是不是容我們再跟召委做一個比較詳細的溝通報告 以上鐘召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13164.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13189.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
抱歉因為剛剛聽了這樣的說明還是有很疑惑啦因為我剛剛的問題核心是既然提案人就是我們主席都已經列1234連我們這種不是圈內人的我們也經常受理民眾陳情我們真的略略了解說這個事情單單是在借街警巡的筆錄有一個詐欺案件被害人就散居好幾個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13190.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13210.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那有時候被害人來找我們我們還要說這個案是從外縣市的警察局打來的電話那我們要去追但我們用人工就覺得好可怕一個案子就牽連那麼多被害人那更不用想像在後續的情況之下後面原來我們檢察官還要去製作被害人的匯款付表 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13210.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13224.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那大家如果用ATM的還得了有時候一個詐騙案件那麼多的悲憾人善變全國各地啊那我想的這個都是非常需要的那至於說怎麼自動數位這個證券辨識證券證 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13226.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13253.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那我想呢這個我就不是檢查官我就不曉得它的功能是什麼但我只有一個直覺我覺得說這個應該如果過去三年花了三千多萬一年超過一千多萬那不可能明年我們少於九百萬啊我還是很疑惑啊為什麼會是這樣子呢跟委員補充一下其實它是一個前三年是一個三年期的計畫已經結束了這個是另外一個次三年的計畫的第一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13258.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13269.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
第一期是三千萬左右下一期預計也是三千萬左右今年是三千萬裡面的第一年大概九百萬左右它是一個延續性的計畫第一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13278.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13304.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
後續就是他們後續就明年度了後續的話我們大概就是說後續我們做一個AI基本上我們朝向一個決策性的輔助跟原來的資料的嫁接 付表的這個建立比較不一樣後三年我們基本上要引入導入AI的一個決策性的輔助讓長官在決策上做一些AI的輔助來判斷中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13305.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13320.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝列席官代表長次黨的說明這個我就覺得我們公務機關在編列預算上過於保守大家想想看NVIDIA的股票從去年到現在漲了多少了NVIDIA的4000晶片現在台價抬到多少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13321.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13342.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那未來的人工智慧AI的一個辨識系統如果說我們用過去的三年的三千多萬去編列下一期的三年的三千多萬你們確定你們在未來的市場上這樣的規模的預算可以得到相稱的相當於當時的水準的服務嗎我舉例喔我們這個人家常常說 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13343.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13364.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
道消魔長 或者說道高一尺 魔高一丈我們現在的犯罪偵查已經是要跟犯罪集團去競爭了我們常常遇到很多實際的投入的這些人員跟我們反映我們自己官方的裝備 我們所使用的軟體我們都不如他們要對付的這些智慧型的罪犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13365.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13384.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那這種情況之下AI是一個趨勢因為詐騙集團它之所以能夠這麼猖獗就是他們善用科技工具嘛他們用那樣的 譬如說他們大家再想想看接下來我們接到的詐騙電話不會是真人打的呢他哪需要再去雇那麼多的真人去打電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13385.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13403.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以這種情況如果沒有適當的裝備的提升我們等於拿實際時代的武器去對抗人家的一個數位時代所以我是一直有點疑惑說為什麼法國部過去三年的預算規模三千多萬一起未來的三年你們也是三千多萬一起那這個購買得到的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13406.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13422.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
這樣的預算購買到服務的水準追得上AI的一個演變嗎我只是好奇這一點那麼也跟主席也是我是認為您的提案真的是非常重要至於要怎麼方式去敦促業務機關我是覺得希望業務機關能夠多多的說一說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13425.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13446.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那這部分我就補充一下,就是再麻煩法國部,因為我剛剛有提到的幾個東西啦就是說,因為剛剛我有聽到那個法國部這邊的說法是說有製作出三千多個,兩千五百六十二件嘛但是我現在的意思是說,製作出來的書類跟後來實際使用這兩個數字是不一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13449.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13468.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
因為你用人工智慧器生成書類的話那就是一個按鍵的問題一個按鈕按下去的問題嘛那問題是這個東西出來之後產製出來的東西檢察官好不好用因為目前我大概有問過好幾個目前事辦的是幾個地檢署的檢察官那大家普遍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13469.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13492.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
的說法都不是很正向所以我想要麻煩你們把這些相關的資料能夠給我一下然後數據給我一下還有就是實際能夠真正使用的書類的件數給我還有就是我剛剛提到的因為我們剛剛講到定應執行型的副表功能嘛那這個副表到底有沒有個案的犯罪時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13493.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13512.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
因為這個對於定運執行型非常的重要就請你們要幫我處理到另外還有一個就是成效的滿意度我想要知道一下如果成效的滿意度大家檢察官那邊的滿意度是怎麼樣還是說這東西建置好了可是其實是華而不實沒有什麼效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13513.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13540.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
所以這個東西我希望能夠知道一下檢察官跟書記官他的滿意度到哪裡那我們也才能夠知道說這個AI的書類的示範的這個成果是怎麼樣當然我們認為這是一個將來一定要走的一條路可是我還是要知道一下現在運作的狀況以及哪裡可以修改那這樣子才能夠推出一個比較有效果的這個東西那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13542.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13552.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
謝謝主席那是不是這部分那個詳細的一個資料我們再提書面意見是不是可以併35案動50那書面意見我們會來盡快的來提出就好 但這個部分還是我們就先保留啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13562.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13571.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
你們有意見嗎因為我想說這只是凍結啦那我也希望說我們只要看完之後我們就沒有意見啦我也希望這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13576.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13585.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
第五目 司法科技業務提案第三四第35案第三四案保留送協商本目凍結50萬元並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議我們在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13597.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13608.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
對我們剛剛已經唸了提出書面報告後折動之後繼續還是先讓大家用個餐各位委員我們先讓他們用個餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13610.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13631.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
可以齁 翁委員沒問題嗎我覺得這比較人道啦 天天慶人齁我看剛剛到現在都沒有休息這樣齁 我們是不是我們先用個餐然後我們一點的時候繼續審查趕快審查完大家就可以趕快回家因為上次 本週一跟昨天週三我們都是一點半嘛是不是建議主席一點半一點半啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13632.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13653.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
但是他們就要晚回去我想今天大家這麼認真的審查喔大家都有一個完整的一季準備好 沒關係 我沒有議價 反正我們好 怎麼樣1點半嘛 好不好因為合理的人到時間啦好 那我們就1點半再回來繼續審查好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
18182.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
18189.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那個主席不好意思開會前我可不可以先問一下早上請他們說那個要翻譯的東西硬來法務部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
18318.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
18322.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
至於你可不可以看看他們要不要過來因為我們現在才差一位才能開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
18692.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
18707.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我們繼續開會那繼續討論事項第一案14年度中央政府總議宣案法務部及所屬主管收支部分稅收部分第一項主決議部分第36至第39案不好意思第36案請問那個機關有無意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
18716.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
18739.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
好 那第三十七案依照主決議修正後文字 機關有無意見沒意見好 第三十八案依照修正文字後主決議有無意見沒意見好 那第三十九案依照修正後主決議有無意見沒意見好 那第四十案依照主決議有無意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
18741.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
18767.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
沒意見第41案測案第42案請問依照修正後主決議有意見沒有意見第43案依照主決議有意見沒意見第44案依照主決議有意見沒有意見第45案要改第45案保護部有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
18769.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
18798.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
主席請問好 請說主席那個想請教一下因為過去在審查組決議的時候我不能理解那個因為一般如果凍結案的話通常會有提書面報告後使得凍資或者說提書面報告經同意後使得凍資那我現在看到的這個文字內容寫書面報告我可以理解就是要統計嘛那請問提供這個我們本委員會統計報告之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
18800.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
18823.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
要怎麼同意那同意有無同意的他的影響是什麼我第一次看到想就叫主席你說書面的部分還是書面他上面寫提書面報告那並經同意後這個書面報告經同意後才能我們才能引用是不是如果是專案報告的話那個有沒有同意應該是沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
18825.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
18849.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那書面包括 是要經過委員會同意我們才能引用是不是因為這個是數據啊 這個之前就有提出來這個問題那我們當然就是說主席我的意思是說 因為它裡面是我們要求提供數據嘛那這個統計數據大概是我們委員就可以使用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
18850.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
18874.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那如果說已經送到本委員會來的書面報告裡面有這些統治數據那我們是不是要委員會同意後我才能引用它是一個對外公開的還是不公開的還是同意後才能公開因為它的可能語意上的性質目的是什麼不太理解還是說沒有經過同意那個數據我們就不能使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
18876.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
18895.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
因為提案人是45萬對不對那45萬看提案的翁委員中委員他意思是說就並經同意這個部分這個東西有沒有一定要保留就看翁委員的意思我不是已經改成主決議了嗎對啊主決議就沒有書面報告對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
18906.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
18924.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我沒有寫同意啦我手上這份有就看翁委員覺得這個併金同意有沒有堅持要留下來因為我這裡是寫這個併金同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
18929.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
18942.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以45案就法務部有沒有意見沒有的話我們就依照修正後的主決議通過那46案到第53案請問法務部有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
18957.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
18980.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
好 那我46案就依照主決議 法務部沒意見嘛那請問第47案 依照主決議 那法務部也無意見沒意見好 那就依照主決議 那第48案 法務部也無意見沒有意見對 一樣一樣問啊好 那沒有意見 那依照主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
18982.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
19005.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
第49案 法務部有意見 沒意見好 那就依照主決議那第50案 法務部有意見 沒意見好 那依主決議那51案 法務部有意見 沒意見好 那就依照主決議那52案 法務部有意見 沒意見好 那就依照主決議那53案 法務部有沒有意見 沒有意見好 那就依照修 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
19006.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
19022.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
正後主決議好那55案法務部有意見沒有意見好那就依照主決議好那第56案好那第56案法務部有意見沒有意見好依照主決議好 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
19027.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
19046.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
第56案改列為第12款第三項法務一研究所的主決議好第57案法務部有意見沒有意見好那就依照主決議那58案法務部有意見沒有意見好那依主決議好那59案法務部有意見沒有意見好那就依照主決議好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
19050.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
19057.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
主決議提案案號第36至59案第3640434446至5355至59案 專案通過第373839424554案 修正通過第41案 測案第12款第一項法務部處理完畢繼續處理第三項法醫研究所第二幕法醫業務提案案號第60案 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
19080.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
19103.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
請問第60案法務部有無意見沒有意見那就依照改組決議通過第二幕法醫業務第60案改為組決議繼續處理第12款第三項法醫研究所的組決議提案號第61案第61案 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
19109.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
19130.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
法務部有意見沒有意見沒有意見就依照主決議通過請說主席 詢問 再度確認一下因為剛我的56案剛有聽到黃主席有宣告說因為我的內容是請法醫研究所所以那一案56案是移到法醫研究所的主決議沒有錯吧確認一下剛剛有宣告了好 謝謝我再確認一次 謝謝好 那第 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
19135.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
19156.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
接下來我們審查主決議第六十一案 遭案通過 第十二款 第三項 白銀救手處理完畢繼續處理第四項 廉政署第二幕 廉政業務提案案號 第六十二案至第六十六案那第六十二案部分 洪國昌委員有沒有要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
19159.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
19179.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我62案的部分之前在質詢的時候我已經講過了連政署派員出國的計畫實際上面派員出國了以後實際上面的效果是什麼我必須要講我現實上面就看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
19181.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
19209.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
特別是我進一步的看你們出國的計畫回來跑去考察什麼立陶宛然後跑去考察什麼IPAC反貪腐然後前面全部都是在講對吹哨者保護法所獲得的啟示我那時候在選答的時候我就一直問啊然後呢然後呢搞到我們在審吹哨者保護法的時候問主管機關的立場一句話都不敢講 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
19211.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
19240.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
一句話都不敢講最後是本院的委員幫你們實現你們長久以來所跳票的政見出國考察考察了一堆缺少者保護法報告裡面寫了得到重大的啟示回來國內了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
19242.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
19263.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
真正要發作具體的行動的時候根本沒看見這樣的出國考察有何意義所以我提案全部刪除請問法務部這邊有什麼意見要補充嗎是不是可以請廉政署來說明一下麻煩署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
19265.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
19286.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
主席先跟委員報告先我們的這個洁癖者保護法三讀通過那未來的這個半年內在這個適應細則的部分我們會努力的去落實跟宣導這是第一個部分連任署在洁癖者保護法這件事情在洁癖者保護我們相信我們會盡很大的努力那第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
19288.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
19310.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
有關於這個出國的這個考察他不是針對於接避者保護法去做考察事實上我們的這一這個156萬的一個這個經費之中以去年113年的部分來看我們已經針對了8萬塊錢做了一個遵截那我們的去年的113萬的部分的一個出國的部分我們其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
19311.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
19337.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
是有這個47萬的部分是做教育的一個訓練總共有4個人次那再來的其他的這個94的部分他也有去參加立陶宛的這個國際會議之外他也從有兩次是到這個秘魯的部分去參加那個APEC會議所以我們今年的114年度的編列的預算之中他有兩次參加那個亞太的APEC的會議那跟委員特別報告是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
19338.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
19360.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
其實這樣的一個國際會議我們去參加因為我們雖然不是聯合國的會員國可是我們很努力的在做聯合國的一個會員國的規定的相關的工作那去參加那個會議可以去跟周邊的國家做很多國際上的一個交流跟反貪腐交流經驗的增加他不是說單一性說是針對於洁癖者保護法考察的這樣的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
19361.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
19384.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那也希望說委員可以支持我們上面的國際合作那在一個部分上JPG的部分我們也會很努力啦請委員是不是可以支持好 總召委好 主席我們也請教廉政署我看了一下你們預算書在你們單位預算的第57頁的確這是一個派員出國 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
19388.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
19404.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
的計畫那因為剛剛也跟主席也先做一個一個建議因為一般國外旅費我們都是通案處理那這裡面的有些數字我想進一步請教的因為你們這樣的一個出國計畫是列的很清楚總共是 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
19407.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
19421.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
12項或者說是12人,因為你們有12人跟天嘛那有一個人是去訪問,7個人去開會一個人是談判,三個人是進修,都是到國外那預計停留的時間累計大概是196人天那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
19424.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
19441.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
在上個年度呢你們合訂的部分是197人天跟去年差不多啦那去年度的預算數是164萬3千元那今年呢是稍微少一點156萬1千元那但是我看了一下你們的預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
19444.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
19469.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
不太理解為什麼只差一個人天那麼相關的預算我對了一下你們主要是進修啦進修三人的三個人的那個項目你們人天是一樣但是我不太理解為什麼人天相同可是你們的預算是減少的我再講一次在進修那個項目下 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
19470.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
19489.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我們有三項然後109人天然後本年度是編了43萬8那去年度你們也是109人天編的是52萬雖然數額差別不多但是看起來你們似乎都是跟去年度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
19490.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
19513.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
內容差不多那其實我們委員會過去的審查都會很關注不希望機關是剪貼貼上去的啦所以我們都會希望說每年的預算都是按照實際上去發生而不是跟去年照抄不過也不能說你們照抄因為真的是單價不一樣能不能說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
19515.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
19540.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
好 請法務部說明跟委員報告就是說我們這個出國的去做訓練它是有地點的不同對 像去年113年度的裡面有奧地利跟泰國那我們現在的這個地點上的一個差異所以我們會把經費上去做一些調整就是說有些地方還沒有那麼確定但是我們認為這一次可能可以稍微減少一點所以我們把那個費用稍微降低一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
19544.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
19572.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
所以你們去年去的地方很明確但是今年要去的地方還不確定但是你們確定會比去年少一點點就對了這個評估也是很有意思就是說因為去年的那個地方裡面奧地利這確實比較貴啦那我們今年評估的地點可能會是比較偏向亞洲區的一個地方所以說會比較便宜一點所以我們自己有刪一些啦OK是好那我還是有點主席可以追問嗎因為怎麼算吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
19573.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
19586.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
如果那個計畫項目是三項計畫還是三個人三項計畫那就沒錯那就沒問題了因為如果是三個人人天不會乘出109人天那就沒事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
19588.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
19610.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那第62案那個因為提案人剛剛有說了他認為這部分還是必須要減那100萬那請問郭委員有不同意見我不同意見我覺得已經比去年順捷了好那如果這樣的話那我們62案就保留好第63案請問一下法務部有意見63案 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
19623.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
19644.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
就是那個經同意那邊就刪除掉對啦,就把它拿掉法務部有無意見?沒有意見那就依照修正後通過那第64案請問法務部有無意見?沒有意見那就是改動50萬元動50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
19650.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
19674.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
所以機關已經同意動50萬了應該是吧,因為這個應該是你們都談好了嘛我們可不可以知道原因第64案嘛當然我們尊重提案委員,也尊重機關代表那我們只是想要了解一下,基於什麼樣的理由可以簡單的說明嗎?那個是廉政署,是不是請廉政署說 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
19682.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
19704.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
關於64案的說明就是說我們在這個綠能的一個部分事實上來講我們今年度我們在綠能的部分在房攤跟宿攤的部分我們都會非常努力去做我們在宿攤的部分有跟最高檢的這個專案上其實在去年度也有七個案件跟調查局一起合作的綠能案件的一個偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
19705.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
19725.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那麼在房攤的部分也跟高檢署這邊有這個有關於綠能的廉政平台的一個這個部分的一個實施當然我們希望是說我們的預算可以說這個就是完整那不過如果說是動結50萬的話我們會在這個將提供詳細的措施跟執行規劃的書面報告後去給委員中央還有好好謝謝那 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
19736.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
19760.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
好那64案部分那如果沒有問題的話那我們就依照改動50萬元通過那第65案請問沒意見那我們依照修正後的主決議通過那66案請問有意見是那個同意同意是不是可以對那個就刪掉所以說修改後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
19761.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
19780.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
那這樣就沒意見好那第66案有意見沒意見好那我們依照修正後的主決議通過那第67案60到66看一下對到66那第二幕連任業務提案案號第63至第66案636566改為主決議第62案保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
19789.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
19794.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
然後本目凍結50萬元並針對凍結提案的要求並審查會決議提出書面報告後 使得凍資繼續處理第12款第4項連政署的主決議提案案號第67號好 那請問一下第67號 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
19810.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
19829.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
案號 請問法務部這邊有沒有意見 沒意見沒意見 那我們就依照主決議通過那主決議第67案 照案通過第12款第4項廉政署處理完畢繼續處理第5項矯正署及所屬第一幕一般行政 第二案號第68號第68號請問翁曉琳委員有無補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
19837.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
19855.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
本人這次針對矯正署署長的特別費我在這裡的提案就是要全刪最主要的理由其實這也是本人之前在這兩個會期一再強調的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
19860.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
19882.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
對於受刑人陳水扁他已經保外就醫十年可是我們的小鎮署毫無作為台中監獄也是一樣只是憑藉著醫生的證明也不去實際的查核到底陳水扁他 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
19883.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
19909.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
身體的恢復狀況如何這明眼人都知道他已經活蹦亂跳在外面從事各式各樣的活動甚至還參加總統就職大典那麼在這樣子的一個情況之下矯正署竟然還可以視若無睹我本身認為矯正署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
19912.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
19938.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
他在針對受刑人保外就醫這件事情差別待遇沒有嚴謹作為一個監督機關首長之責所以提案刪除他的特別費好 那總召委這條我怎麼翻了 開玩笑台語的台語 翻了翻了 保留保留好 總召委有要補充嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
19940.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
19965.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我覺得這個案子的理由是有需要進一步釐清那我先陳述一下就是說其實我記得美市矯正署在說明相關的保外就醫人員的情況收容人的情況都會就該監獄本身只要符合規定就以該監獄的決定來作為說明那我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
19966.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
19994.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
類似所有的保外就醫案件是否都要呈送到矯正署這點我是不太理解啦那如果能夠說明是最好不過如果主席覺得我們下午的時間要更快的推進我也會支持莊委員的保留的建議但是還是很好奇到底我們那麼多的收容人那保外就醫的情況是否都要到矯正署來做一個最後的定奪我是有點疑惑啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
19997.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
20018.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
張偉我來說明一下 其實我可以理解但是我們常常在外面看到的是一個表象有時候受刑人面對媒體的時候都很倔強尤其是你沒有當總統你如果當過總統的話 開什麼玩笑那個心情落差會很大實際上有時候面對媒體的時候好像是維持一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
20019.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
20035.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
過去想像想到的是以前當總統其實有時候你看他的身體狀況因為我跟他有接觸我很清楚啦跟實際上的情況大家所看到的是不一樣啦所以這個把他歸咎給矯正署可能也不太公平啦 以上好 請問法務部有沒有補充那個好 法務部請說我請矯正署來補充好 麻煩署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
20049.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
20066.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
跟委員報告針對委員歷史的指教我們會檢討監督措施針對成員的督管措施再來做強化避免再發生類似的爭議行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
20069.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
20087.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那另外因為署長的特別會是主要用於我們的同仁的犒賞是所以是不是請委員替曾佐免以刪除我們改為主決議提書面報告 以上好 翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
20092.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
20115.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我非常支持這個主管要對辛苦的同仁犒賞這犒賞您也可以發自內心您也可以自己買禮物送給他們不需要透過特資費啦如果說真的同仁那麼辛苦的話該請客就請客就像我請客我也不會說是用這個立法院的什麼公務費去請客對不對那重要的就是說你們現在這個主管監督出了問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
20118.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
20122.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
那麼全台灣有哪一個受刑人是可以保外就醫10年的這個我也支持如果說是這個賴總統認為陳水扁他應該考驗這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
20135.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
20157.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
考慮到他過去擔任總統這些年來的一些辛苦作為他要給他大赦那也沒有問題給他特赦可是現在他就是一個受刑人受刑人就是既然在保外就醫這理論上他都是要重病不能夠去參加這麼多的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
20159.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
20166.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
可是他還要參加活動尤其是上次署長說還要考慮到他的職能恢復這讓我覺得實在是不可思議 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
20168.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
20192.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
如果這樣的話是不是我們現在在這個獄中的很多的受刑人你都應該讓他保外就醫啊要考慮到他這個未來的職能的恢復盡量的安排給他各式各樣的社交活動這不是更有利於這個受刑人這未來重返社會的時候可以很快的融入社會對不對這個就是差別待遇差別待遇其實台中監獄 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
20195.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
20209.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我這裡有提到76案也是刪除台中監獄檢獄長的特別費基本上台中監獄到底有沒有好好的去檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
20211.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
20232.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
陳水扁這個案子呢本席過去也跟台中監獄跟矯正署有要求他們要提供就檢水扁去探望陳水扁所有的報告書啊都沒有啊都沒有書面報告口頭報告也這就都說只是去口頭然後去看一看那實際狀況怎麼樣都沒有書面報告給我每一次喔因為我認為實在是太放縱了啦對不對作為一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
20242.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
20260.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
一個典譽矯正機關不可以這樣的差別待遇要就是一視同仁所以我這裡就順便連76案一起講同樣的道理就刪減這個首長的特別費以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
20262.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
20282.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那這個部分,請問一下就第68案,我們翁曉琳委員提案3減21萬7千元,請問各位委員是否有,是否同意?保留,有意見,好那既然大家意見不一,那我們就第68案我們就以保留,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
20286.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
20306.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
第一幕一般行政第68案保留送協商接著處理第二幕矯正業務第69案至第76案那69至第76那請問黃國昌委員就本幕的你的提案有沒有先補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
20307.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
20335.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
69案的提案我說明一下我那時候2020年離開立法院以後我自己在回到台灣公民社會以公益皆必遇罪者保護協會當作中心其實在處理很多公益的案件69案是讓我最深惡痛絕裡面其中的一樣我們的政府說要打詐說要防詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
20337.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
20363.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
結果有一個傢伙都已經什麼都已經被判刑了關在高雄二監竟然可以在高雄二監裡面繼續遙控外面的人繼續搞詐騙我簡直是難以想像結果搞了半天啊原來是買通我們監所的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
20365.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
20393.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
幫他傳遞他所有的指令出去啊那個時候我收到檢舉的時候啊我看的是瞠目結舌啊所以我在 他直接啊那個叫做台灣巴菲特的 叫周瑞慶那個騙子非法吸金41億在裡面傳出去的信寫什麼啊我現在在裡面要打通關啊我就算裡面還沒通啊這對我很重要 要通我才好做事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
20394.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
20413.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
這裡不是家裡,我要搞定大委的不要出錯這是大家要的,有代價換的這是我做公關的工具我剛念的那個,都不是我編出來的因為我接到的檢舉信我都拿到了錄音筆我也拿得到的我還派了一隊人跑去高雄為了要查證這件事情發現檢舉的人講的通通都是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
20425.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
20453.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
但沒有人敢去跟檢調檢舉大家都怕得要死啊原來我們的巴菲 台灣巴菲特啊在監獄裡面可以打通關啊在監獄裡面非法吸金41億啊透過不肖的監所管理人遙控外面的詐騙集團繼續詐騙詐騙的人是哪些人教戰守則寫得很清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
20454.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
20461.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
要找教育程度低的 好騙啊要找年紀 年齡大的 好騙啊都是在找社會的底層 在騙我昨天收政了好幾個月我拜託高雄地檢那邊 趕快行動我說得很清楚 你們拖得越久 被害的人就越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
20485.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
20487.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
拖得越久 被害人就越多那時候還安排了一堆證人跑去地檢署作證我不知道我們的剿證署的官員到底在幹嘛監所可以管成這個樣子喔那個不是受刑人在裡面小小的違規啊不是受刑人在裡面什麼抽抽菸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
20514.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
20518.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
不是那個層次的事情啦關在監獄裡面繼續遙控外面的詐騙集團 繼續詐騙啊繳證署難辭其咎我也沒有砍很多啊1億95千多萬三減一千萬中稍委 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
20544.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
20570.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
主席我跟主席來請教一下我這邊拿到的預算書它這邊寫30頁因為那我看的是30頁目前我們才能是第二目矯正業務那矯正業務它這裡面的經費預算金額我讀了一下有點訝異因為它是單位是千元那我們看到了它這個數字是不是有誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
20572.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
20592.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
因為這讀起來是一百五十七億四千四百八十萬三千元這個數字我真的很疑問因為我一直在用心看提案委員他講的一億九千零七那是在底下的第三辦理矯正行政業務是指這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
20594.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
20608.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
所以沒有錯啦,我先確認一下,是指這一個啦好,那就這個部分我就準就,我怕我講錯了因為我這邊看的內容因為之前,那我就確認這個數字沒有錯,我就開始表示意見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
20609.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
20623.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
那麼因為矯正署的主要目的呢這裡面有很多收容人那麼有的在看守所有的在監獄那監獄的是受刑人目的是透過矯正讓他們可以復歸社會那我們都知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
20624.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
20641.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
其實就一個社會的治安的維持來講其實就警察也知道有一些治安人口也就是說有前科的或者是說漁犯所以呢一般有限的警力要如何維持社會治安他們會鎖定比較高風險的族群進行必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
20642.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
20667.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
一個管制那同樣的一個社會如果要讓這個社會減少犯罪或受害者那犯罪人口呢其實以目前矯正署所屬的這寓所他們管理的人基本上就是我們這個社會當中已經發生了也是風險最高的那其實我們在評估矯正署的業務它的成效其實要看的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
20668.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
20692.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
他的再犯率那如果說收容的人數少那表示社會的治安好那如果說收容人出來之後更生人他沒有再犯那表示我們的矯正成效是卓越的因為你對這些對社會治安已經證明罪有危害的人進到了一個教化讓他復歸社會不會再犯這是最有效打擊犯罪的手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
20693.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
20700.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
那麼與其去預防新的犯罪發生那個不知道在哪裡潛在的犯罪人口在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
20701.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
20724.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
對於已經犯罪在接受授堅執行的人能夠避免他出獄之後復發這是最有效的方式所以矯正署本來就應該要投入必要的資源去完成他的目的那因此我們對於他所使用的預算的概念上並不是要去給那些在一般的觀念犯錯被關 是在接受懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
20725.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
20752.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那不是要給懲罰的人享受用的而是要幫助社會投入資源讓這些人出獄後不要再犯這是社會付出的一種預防性的成本防止他再犯那這個錢我們在意的是再犯率的高低那現在我們看到了如果是在監獄管理上的一些個案一些老鼠死一些為非作歹聯合勾串 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
20752.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
20776.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
然後呢去協助受刑人或收容人為非作歹這與法絕對不容絕對要揪出來但是這個是發生在我們的預證管理而不是在相關的預證上的投資所以我是覺得這個部分法務部或矯正署要清楚的說明剛剛提案人所指示的該案是否相關的人等都已經接受到法律的制裁或必要的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
20777.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
20806.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那是否已經相關人都已經繩之以法那這樣的事情未來會不會減少發生那麼這才是他的治本之道就是預證的管理如果是發生在人的身上應該從人去解決但是預證的投資是社會上用我們納稅人的錢去防止這些高風險的人未來出獄後再犯對社會來講那個是最有效的投資我再強調一次我們對於潛在的不知名的即將會發生的犯罪人口我們不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
20807.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
20830.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我們不是關鍵報告裡面的那個Tom Cruise我們可以預知犯罪發生我們只能就已經犯罪的人設法讓他以後不再犯罪這樣的投資成本效益是最高的所以我認為這樣的預證投資跟預證管理的缺失必須區分出來到底是人緣良又不齊管理上的問題我們就對症效要將這些人施以必要的處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
20831.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
20833.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
但是對預證的投資 拿預證的投資的減少來作為預證管理缺失的一個要方顯然方法跟目的不太相對應所以我還是呼籲我們審查預算不是用三減預算 減減預算來作為懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
20849.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
20870.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
對於業務單位表現不佳的一種處罰而是要了解這個預算執行的效能有沒有發揮那預算執行的效能有沒有發揮還是要區分是我們的設備投資人員的投入有不足還是說使用方法不當但是如果是個案式的人模不彰那麼這些特定的人模不彰就應該被抓出來處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
20872.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
20899.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
防止它再發生而非去拿預算來作為一個解決問題的方法我還是在想解決發生問題而不是去處理預算來作為一個當然我也同意作為預算編測我們的主管機關要更加努力這也是一個方法在很多機關我們會用這個方法但是我很好奇如果簡列一千萬那如果矯正署他就一千萬不執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
20900.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
20919.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
那有辦法達到要他改正預政管理上人模不章的部分的這些弊案缺失嗎是不是請機關列席機關能夠說明一下先請黃委員提問尊重宗嘉斌委員剛剛的發言按照宗嘉斌委員的論理其實很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
20921.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
20936.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
搞出來這種事啊預算還不能處理啊處理就是讓他以後做更不好啊順著這個邏輯啊那預算通通都不要刪啊我預算審查的立場很清楚啊出現這種爛事啊要有consequence預算管理出了這麼嚴重的包剛剛莊家兵委員是說最高的目標是出獄後不要再犯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
20950.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
20955.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
所以很好啊現在的問題是什麼現在的問題是在牢裡面啊不僅繼續犯啊損害繼續擴大被害人繼續增加不是預診管理出了問題會發生這種事嗎站在被害人的立場到底誰要負責啊到底誰要負責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
20978.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
21004.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
如果不是今天育盛管理除了這麼嚴重的事情在高雄地區那邊被詐騙的銀髮族無辜的受害人要找誰討公道要找誰討公道剛剛莊委員說是不是全部的人都有神之以法我老實講我不知道因為只抓了一個人只抓了一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
21009.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
21027.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
只有那位無姓的監所管理員被抓了他一個人就搞定我老實講我還是冒很大的問號當初巴菲特在監獄裡面說我要搞定大尾的啊那個無姓管理員是大尾的喔我要搞定大尾的啊我才好辦事啊高雄地檢 橋頭地檢怎麼去辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
21039.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
21065.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那是檢察官辦案能力的問題啊但我對於最後的結論只抓一個姓吳的監所管理員他自己幹的出來這種事我是充滿了問號但我可以確定的事情是什麼如果今天不是在監獄裡面遇證腐敗成這個樣子高雄那邊啊不會增加這麼多的被害人現在這些被害人要找誰討公道 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
21069.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
21098.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
好 後部有無補充可以請教政署來好 麻煩組長謝謝委員那個先針對吳妍她的究責部分做個簡單報告那麼吳妍在112年的11月14號經懲戒法院可以撤職並停止任用兩年另外經橋頭地方法院判刑六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
21099.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
21111.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
那他本人已經在113年的11月19號到高雄監獄執行那當然我們矯正署也以這個案件為借鏡 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
21114.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
21136.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
針對我們的強化紀律跟建物管理效能實施計畫再做強化另外執行擴大跟突擊安檢另外加強風險控管跟內控機制等這些措施以上希望說是不是見景明與山簡好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
21142.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
21165.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
就請問一下那69案的部分郭委員有無意見同意嗎好那黃委員還要補充嗎那69案如果大家意見不一我們是不是就保留誰意見不一啊要按麥克風講啊說要保留的人就喊保留啊剛莊委員離開了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
21168.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
21195.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我同意莊委員的所以莊委員你的意思是你同意莊委員剛剛保留的說法嗎好那各位還有沒有其他意見說明一下我們保留我們是支持要對育政管理痛下針鞭所有相關涉嫌人等一定要受到制裁那這當中我比較重視的是作為署長是作為典育長本身他們在行政督導上的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
21197.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
21208.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
這要被追究的是這個責任抱歉署長不因為你今天列席說明預算我認為機關的預算跟你個人的承擔這是兩件事情機關少一千萬的預算減一千萬預算執行說不定對公務機關來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
21212.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
21232.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
少執行預算不見得比較不好執行預算是有壓力的少執行的預算到底是誰在承擔這個預算減少的一個後果我們都知道在目前的收容人當中預鎖的硬體環境我還再強調一點一旦被判刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
21233.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
21248.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
他就應該付出他應有的失去自由就是他應付出的代價這是很明顯的這是我們刑法的目的之一但是我們要他付出代價的同時我們也要設法讓他能夠復歸社會避免日後再犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
21248.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
21267.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
這樣的一個情況之下,對於預所預算的執行必須清楚的去區分哪些是要去落實執行讓收容人或受刑人未來在這些投資上可以幫助他富貴社會的哪些弊案是因為主管應有的責任未被追究,這是兩件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
21268.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
21288.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
所以這個案子我之所以同意剛剛莊委所保留我是相對的在發言特別要求法務部以及講長證署對於本案相關有人謀不章的部分一定要徹查到底甚至因為我們也不能再提這個組決議了因為我這裡沒有提案不然我是希望說有組決議的內容應該要求這樣的一個責任要被追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
21294.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
21314.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好那所以就69案的部分大家意見不一致嘛那69案的部分我們就予以保留那各位有不同意見沒有關係啊就有人喊保留就保留嘛反正我們就到院會去處理嘛對啊那要就是我還是一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
21316.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
21338.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
主席在主持會議的時候 主持的方式我都尊重那我們在這個委員會裡面有執政黨的委員要幫行政部門喊保留 那就保留那我們就到院會裡面去做處理好 謝謝黃委員那69案的部分我們就與保留那第70案 請問黃委員有沒有要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
21340.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
21369.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這其實案喔上面一個案子是高雄監獄啊現在是台北監獄啊差不多相類似的時候離譜的不得了啊那裡面是有幫派份子啊裡面是有幫派份子直接用手機可以用啊直接用手機可以用啊我這影像我都全部截圖出來了我截圖出來了以後交給台北地檢署的檢察官去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
21370.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
21386.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
結果查了半天 什麼都沒有查到查了半天 什麼都沒查到另案去查的時候 查到了什麼查到了金門高良酒 白蘭地洋酒行動電話 收費 敗話預證一模一樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
21396.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
21424.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
但相對而言在台北監獄這件事情我為什麼這麼深惡痛絕我非常討厭組織犯罪我非常討厭組織犯罪過去這幾年為了組織犯罪的事情我投入了非常多的時間結果呢我們的預證管理在幹什麼讓幫派分子把手機藏在一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
21426.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
21432.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
讓裡面的大哥繼續可以去遙控外面的組織犯罪我敢這樣子講是因為我連截圖都有了應該在監獄裡面的人竟然拿手機打電話出來跟外面的人繼續的遙控組織犯罪獄政是敗壞獄政是敗壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
21455.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
21456.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
令人難以想像一樣啊在這個矯正行政啊的向下1億9000 06億7萬3.1千萬好 了解 那那個莊昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
21475.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
21496.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
主席剛剛69案提案委員有他的看法那麼陳儒提案委員常用的我都予以尊重但是70案跟69案的邏輯我就不通了我就搞不懂了因為我們在明明在這1億9千零7萬5千元的預算向下他有分了至少有分業務費有分 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
21498.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
21524.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
設備及投資有分獎補助三個大項那今天一個弊案我都很贊成揭弊那也覺得有人勇於揭弊可以列入以他的終身職志去努力那今天我們在預證的管理上裡面有弊端當然也是我們要把它揭發出來的那如果以一弊一罰那現在顯然的有委員提案委員在審預算的時候就一弊罰一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
21525.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
21533.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
那兩個弊案就罰兩千萬三個弊案就罰三千萬這樣的一個審列預算的邏輯我就不能理解了 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
21534.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
21555.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
一個是台北監獄 一個是台中監獄那很好啊 具體明確啊台北監獄該誰負責啊 台中監獄該誰負責啊那麼這個我們還有監察院存在啊那如果有人認為監察權不夠使用 不服使用要自己跳下來調查使用那麼現在呢 也有委員在立法院裡面成立調查委員會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
21556.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
21570.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
那既然有明確的對象可以追查弊案就勇於使用職權去行使那目前呢我比較擔心的是當不明就裡的去檢列一千萬的時候我就好奇的要問機關代表你們是打算去檢列業務費從業務費當中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
21573.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
21593.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
一億四千三百九十四萬去減劣還是你們要從設備級投資的兩千六百七十一萬去減劣還是你們要從獎補助費的一千九百四十一萬一千元去減劣這些減劣之後的效果是不一樣的比如說我看你們獎補助費你們是鼓勵矯正收容人念空中大學的獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
21593.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
21600.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
是鼓勵對於提供給矯正機關經濟不利的收容人的一些記住費用那這樣的獎補租費要刪嗎?要減劣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
21604.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
21624.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
那這個如果說我們放任就是說這個項目統三一千科目的自行調整那我們的審查機關那萬一讓放任主管機關他這樣去把這個獎補助惠一千九百四十一萬減列一千萬剩九百四十一萬那我們要對於那些經濟不利的處境的受容能的救助就沒有了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
21625.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
21640.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那這個我們省列預算我們難道是這個目的嗎又或者說你的設備及投資去改善矯正機關的各項設備的汰換跟購置目前我們的寓所的收容人的情況很多都人滿為患不是說要給他們特別舒適的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
21641.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
21659.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
但是基本上一個人道的待遇的維持跟環境的投資設備有關還包括在COVID-19期間我就曾經到獄所去了解獄所在確保收容人他的身心健康安全他們必須在有限的經費之下去確保不會做一個群聚感染 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
21660.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
21672.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
這個都是需要投資的但是如果很明確的告訴我們說這個業務會當中一共有幾項一共有我這邊看了一下一共有10個項目10個項目裡面第7項還有12款 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
21675.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
21691.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
在一般事務費裡面那我一直在找出說那到底這個檢列的這一千萬放在哪裡能夠避免這樣同樣的事情在發生我是很希望眾矢機關代表同意檢列一千萬或同意檢列多少至少要告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
21691.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
21709.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
你們覺得這樣的預算要放在哪裡檢列方能達到委員他提案的目的跟效果我們才能理解不然的話檢列一千萬三道不該三的地方反而枉費了我們希望這些受刑人出獄之後能夠復歸社會這個有效的壓低減少社會所受的風險好那這樣子法務部有沒有要補充什麼矯正署署長有沒有補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
21720.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
21728.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
21731.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
21758.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
兩位我們管理人員一個黃姓一個李姓都已經被判刑被各判2年然後反刑5年分別要向國庫支付30萬元跟20萬元另外比較有涉及到的同仁一樣給予相當的行政懲處總共有24位同仁受到行政懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
21761.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
21775.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
我們這些跟69案一樣這些經費的編類其實都是有實際的運作包括危機處理小組的運作各項設施設備汰換及購置還有矯正機關的資訊安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
21779.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
21806.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
包括受刑人自主境外作業的管理還有性侵收容人的治療輔導毒品危害防治的相關業務還有經濟不利處境這些比較貧窮的受刑人的技術費用那所以這些如果被刪減掉真的很多運作實務運作會停頓下來所以以上建請不要刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
21808.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
21827.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
謝謝我想這個應該跟剛剛那個編號69號的狀況一樣嘛一樣嘛是是來請問一下那各位委員就黃國昌委員所提出簡列一千萬部分各位有意見有意見我希望明列簡列的項目不然就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
21828.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
21846.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
好那這樣子我看如果說大家意見不一的話那我們就第69案部分就予以保留第73部分就予以保留不好意思好那接下來我們審查第71案那71案的部分呢取消簡列改動200萬及書面報告請問翁曉琳委員有沒有要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
21851.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
21862.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
其實我這邊的看法跟之前黃國昌委員的看法是一樣都認為說其實矯正署的內部的控管機制出了極大的問題包含我後面還有提也是要刪減這個矯正署一千萬的這個經費那現在不管是他內部的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
21867.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
21886.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
還有包含對於受刑人的這個差別待遇就像我剛剛說的像對這個受刑人陳水扁就特別好但是呢在74案裡面我這裡有特別講到就監察院的報告也是對於這個矯正署裡面其實還是有些在監獄裡面還是有些受刑人 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
21886.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
21903.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
他其實他的已經生病非常嚴重了但是仍然是很難能夠申請到保外醫治等要出來的時候很快就會往生了所以就整個的管理勢必是要進行大幅度的檢討因此在71案這邊我後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
21906.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
21924.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
他們跟我說了就是我大概這裡就是凍結200萬那麼在74案的部分我現在就一併講不好意思跟召委報告一聲就是我這裡74案我這裡有提就是要刪減這個矯正業務就是針對矯正業務底下辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務的部分的話我這裡也是提的就是減劣1000萬然後凍結3000萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
21936.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
21961.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
好 那第七十一案部分喔 這個機關有意見七十一案 同意 已經談好了嘛好 那就七十一案的部分呢 我們就改動兩百萬然後再請你們要出書面報告好 那我們現在審查第七十二案第七十二案 請問這個是改組決議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
21963.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
21986.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
好 那請問機關有無意見 七十二案沒有意見好 那沒有意見的話總統府一定要補充嗎如果沒有的話 好 那就依照修正後主決議通過那七十三案 請問機關有無意見沒有意見好 沒有意見 我們依照修正後的主決議通過那七十四案 請問翁曉林委員有無補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
21987.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
22005.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
剛剛已經談過了就是針對矯正署它內部的管理還有其實過去也檢視監察院的報告書裡面對於受刑人其實都已經呈現這個病情非常嚴重的狀況但是都還只是戒護外衣 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
22006.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
22023.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
不太能夠獲得保外醫治的資格那相較於就受刑人陳水扁來講這個簡直是天壤之別由此可見矯正署的保外醫治的審查制度是出了嚴重的問題所以我這裡就提出要刪減一千萬然後凍結三千萬好那就這個部分請問機關有意見補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
22035.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
22054.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
是報告委員有關相關的保外醫治其實我們對於每一個受選人是一樣的一體適用那包括說我們一般來講會會持保外醫治就是說他在 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
22055.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
22082.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
社會有犯罪這個當然要把他廢止保外醫治但是如果他只是違反相關的規定我們要看情節情節輕微的一般不管是誰我們會給他發函督促他要注意要改善如果他不改善或是他的情節嚴重我們當然依相關規定還是會廢止他的保外 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
22083.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
22104.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
那另外這個我們編列的這些預算就是相關的被凍結或是檢列的話包括我們家暴受刑人的輔導治療藥酒藥飲收容人的諮商輔導還有收容人的X光性傳染病的篩檢等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
22105.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
22126.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
還有我們矯正機關的科技設備的一些輔製監控也好科技安全網的監製設的計畫都沒有辦法太換老舊監控系統這個對於將來智慧建議的建制會有非常大的影響所以建請免以刪除以上 謝謝中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
22128.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
22146.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
主席其實我個人對於我們提案委員的用心良苦我是滿於肯定跟體察因為他這裡面說到其實在間的受刑人有些高齡或有病痛那麼也只能戒護外衣那麼能不能受到健康妥善的照顧我個人非常認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
22147.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
22168.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
我們在受刑人矯正期間必須予以他健康上基本的照顧那目前呢我在看了這個這個檢列案的內容還是一個跟剛剛的疑惑因為這個在我們預算書第三十三頁矯正署的預算三十三頁他的這個第五目他辦理矯正醫療這裡很清楚的列出了醫療及訓練業務總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
22170.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
22193.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
九億七千九百四十二萬五千元當中有分別有業務費四億六有設備及投資五億一那我想這當中可能在細項來看各個業務費當中有通訊、兼職、酬金事務費、國內旅費等等那這裡面我特別注意到可能跟提案委員關心的特別提到說按日計 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
22193.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
22207.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
按日案件計酬酬金1590萬7千元他其中的有一小款就是委請特約醫師及監任醫師看診所需的診療費用1828萬6千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
22210.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
22237.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我覺得這應該就是提案委員關心的我們要去關注收容人他的健康情況我們必須給予基本應有的醫療但是由於這樣的醫療的提供顯然提案委員認為並沒有辦法普及照顧到所有的受刑人所以應該要予以改善所以我相信是不是可以跟提案委員有一個建議就是說因為如果簡略了我不曉得叫我剛剛一個發言的意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
22239.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
22253.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
這917你要他檢列1000萬到底檢列在哪裡檢列在不該檢列的地方不能發生效果那如果是檢列在針對性的地方又好像是反效果是不是我們原造過去委員的例子透過預算審查可能又以凍結要求改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
22254.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
22281.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
那因為這個按日案件計酬的酬金呢 他不是一次性的我不曉得是不是一次性的發包業務如果不是一次性的 那麼至少呢 業務機關他在辦理相關業務的時候可以注意到委員在審查預算的時候 要求跟叮嚀因此呢 他的後續的改進有呈現出應有的作為這個時候呢 就可以以凍結的解凍的條件來促使業務機關在執行上做必要的改良 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
22281.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
22296.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那這是我對於剛剛提案委員他的用心的本意那麼放在預算審查上可以採取的手段給的一個建議那也希望機關能夠回應如果說現在提案委員提案說要檢列一千嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
22298.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
22322.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
凍結三簽那我不知道這一簽會簡列到哪個項目那凍結的三簽那到底是要哪些項目要改善後才能夠凍資因為提案內容上並沒有明確的指出所以我在這裡擔心提案委員的美意不能落實也擔心機關也不能夠理解我們審查所要求的方向萬一搞錯方向了剛好我們前功盡棄適得其反以上建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
22325.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
22344.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
請問歐委員的提案,各位委員用凍結?凍結3000元嗎?請問歐委員,市案的部分是否堅持不改變? |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
22346.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
22368.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
因為我等於是動的是大象那這個我想這個我還是堅持就是檢例一千萬 凍結三千萬然後就讓他們自己好 謝謝那我想說這個大家意見不一致那第74案的部分我們就還是一樣予以保留到院會去處理好那第75案請問一下法務部有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
22369.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
22378.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
沒意見 好那我們就修改後主決議通過那76萬請問翁曉琳有無補充翁曉琳委員有無補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
22381.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
22399.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
就是同樣在談到那個小鎮署署長特殊費的情況我剛剛已經有提過那這個部分我還是堅持那請問其他委員沒有啦我是提醒你因為剛剛念到75萬我的提案雖然我已經同意了您可以再問一下提醒一下我同意啦我同意啦那這樣75萬的部分你還有補償嗎我同意同意同意但是您要問一下我再答 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
22404.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
22426.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
那那個76案的部分我不知道各位委員是否同意那個翁委員所提出來的這個簡列168000元保留好那這樣子大家意見不一致那這個76案就予以保留那第二幕矯正業務提案案號第69案至第76案第727375改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
22432.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
22452.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
第69707476保留送協商第二幕矯正業務向下辦理矯正行政業務凍結200萬等提出書面報告經同意後 使得凍資繼續處理第12款第5項矯正署所屬之主決議提案案號第77案至第83案 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
22461.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
22473.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
第77案 請問法務部有沒有意見 同意 那我們就以主決定通過那78案有無意見 叫文字修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
22475.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
22495.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
有意見 同意好 那就依照修正後 主決議通過79案 有意見 沒意見好 依照主決議通過 80案 有意見 沒意見好 依主決議通過 81案 有意見 沒意見那依主決議通過 82案 有沒有意見 沒有意見好 依主決議通過 83案 有意見 沒有意見那依主決議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
22497.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
22518.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
好 主決議 提案案號第77至第83案第77 79 照83 照案通過 第78案修正通過第12款第5項矯正署及所屬處理完畢繼續處理第6項行政執行署及所屬第三目執行案件處理 提案案號第84第85 55案 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
22522.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
22538.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
那第84案改凍結100萬元這個部分請問機關有意見沒有意見好沒有意見那各位應該也沒意見吧好那就依照那個改凍結100萬通過那85案請問並到第84案 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
22548.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
22568.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
第三幕執行案件執行案件處理提案案號第83至第85案本幕合併凍結100萬元並針對凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後 使得動之繼續處理第六項行政執行署及所屬的主決議提案案號第86第87案86案請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
22575.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
22600.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
法務部有無意見沒有意見好那我們就依照修正後主決議通過那87案法務部有無意見沒有意見好我們依據修正後的主決議通過好主決議第8687案修正通過第12款第6項行政經營署及所屬處理完畢繼續處理第7項最高檢察署真的嗎還是要等你一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
22606.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
22626 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
因為這都沒有爭議的我就快一點那第二幕檢查業務提案案號還是提醒一下因為其實因為就算機關還是建議啦就算執行機關同意改動節或者檢列也是要問一下其他委員不好意思我剛剛是跪了這裡說不好意思第二幕檢查業務提案案號第88至第91案 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
22632.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
22644.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
那請問一下第88案提案人黃國昌委員就本目的部分你要不要一併的如果有意見可以提出說明我先處理88案嘛88案出國計畫最高檢察署是編了131萬4千元嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
22653.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
22681.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
那去年度 去年度其實就是2024年嘛2024年是編了41萬4千元嘛然後2025年編了131萬4千元嘛那理由是說要去法國要去瑞士檢查總長辦公室去考察那我是沒有辦法理解啊去法國 去瑞士檢查總長辦公室考察是要考察什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
22682.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
22694.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
它的效益是什麼它針對目前我們檢查中長的職權針對於有關檢查中長在制度上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
22695.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
22720.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
跟國人所關心的問題到底有什麼因果關係我看不出來啊只說要去法國只說要去瑞士那去法國瑞士回來那你主要的目的是什麼我完全沒有看到這個必要性啊那一百三十一萬四千萬四千元我也沒有全部刪啊我減一百萬以上好那翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
22726.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
22741.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
是 我可以這個一起幫那個羅志強委員跟徐小青委員他們是作為提案人 九十一案現在我來講九十一案因為九十一案跟剛剛黃委員的案子都是談的就是出國計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
22743.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
22763.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
的費用那麼我們這裡的看法是認為其實新冠疫情之後很多的會議都會改成線上網路會議那麼交流模式等等不見得一定非得要這個要有正式的人員去那個國家來進行開會各個機關都應該要重新檢視國外旅費的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
22764.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
22789.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
並且可以尋求更適當的替代性來開會所以基於就是尊潔國家的財政那在這裡提出凍結預算30%然後最高檢察署在六個月之內要向司法法治委員會提出他們出國必要性的專案報告之後經過同意才可以動之以上好 謝謝那請問各位委員還有沒有要補充的88到91案 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
22794.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
22822.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
因為我們國外旅費是不是都保留通案處理那第九十案的部分我說八十八案是國外旅費是不是保留做通案處理嘛是不是八十八案是國外旅費啊不過這邊還是請那個最高檢察署來說明一下吧他們八十還沒處理呢八十八跳到九十一了 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
22823.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
22851.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
所以88的話大家意見如果不一致的話那是法務部有要說明嗎88案的部分很感謝翁委員給我們一個說明的機會那我們尊重這個委員的這個的意見如果採通案處理我們覺得可以接受不過這個對於剛剛那個黃委員的說法我要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
22852.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
22869.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
大概我們前年有去過這個德國那是當時江惠民江總長的時候任內編的啦那時候我們這個檢察官去的時候當然是疫情那個情況非常的辛勞那我們去直接看到德國的一些進步還有他的一些問題所以我們回來之後馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
22870.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
22884.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
就我們所看到的問題我們結合了我們各地的檢察官有德語背景的也出了一本德國檢查實務就是依照中華民國的刑訊體系然後就目前我們在德國所看到一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
22885.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
22909.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
具有德語能力的一些檢察官還有是實地參訪的檢察官我們把他去資料匯整起來這本書馬上就要出版了而且這個不用花國家的錢我們是由民間來出版的就政府出版品有委託來出版的這本書馬上就要出版了也匯集了十幾位檢察官也請了我們法律系的教授來跟我們做指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
22910.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
22927.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
那這本書出版了之後呢如果在座的委員有興趣的話我們又可以這個請委員來跟我們做指導所以這個具體的成果我們不是出去外面玩另外我們因為正式去跟德國的這個相當高階層的這個檢察官建立了關係所以今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
22928.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
22944.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
就去年一月德國慕尼克檢察長也到台灣來訪問一共有四個人他們也派了檢察官來我們這個最高檢察署還有地檢署來見習前後加起來又將近四位之多啦所以這是有具體的收穫另外這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
22946.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
22963.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
去年我們到了日本去也見到了日本相當高相當高的這個層次也進行了交流他們也對我們的業務有更深入的了解因此跟委員報告那這個情況目前是這樣子那因為這個日本跟德國在這個這幾任的情況都已經去過了現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
22964.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
22992.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
就是法國跟瑞士那我們的母法我們的繼承法國其中有一個德國跟瑞士是非常密切的那我們而且在拉法亞的時候是瑞士檢察官對我們是非常的友好跟我們很多的支持也要回了很多的將近上億的美金那我們想要去繼續維持相關的相方的關係那這些人默默在幫助我們長大十幾年這關係我們也不要雖然斷掉了事實上在座檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
22995.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
23021.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
當時在跟法國檢察官溝通當時我在北檢的時候他們也去了瑞士去了好幾趟瑞士也傾全力支援我們我們回饋收回違法的錢也收了好幾億美金所以這個是進行實質的交流他實際上也在另外法國事實上跟我們關係也相當的友好我們希望也能夠邀請他們高階的這些檢察官來做附訪然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
23024.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
23038.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
這個以後再辦刑事案件相信一定會用得到的這也跟各位做個說明另外對於八九案我們要跟各位做個報告這裡面跟我們簡列兩百萬還沒到好謝謝好那第八十八案的部分請問一下黃委員是提出簡列一百萬那各位有不同意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
23054.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
23055.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
我們先討論88案,一樣一樣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
23061.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
23086.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
好 那就予以保留嘛好 那八十八案就予以保留那八十九案 黃委員還要再補充嗎八十九案部分八十九案主要是針對在思改國事會議以後偵查不公開的亂象是思改國事會議裡面重要的事情那隨著思改國事會議的結論然後也有強化的要求也有強化的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
23087.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
23116.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
最大檢察署的檢察中長來本院備詢的時候會以我自身當作例子來請教除了我早上所講的我帶IMB的秘密證人跑去北檢結果作證的內容變成禁週刊洗滌的內容以外另外一個泰電案涉及到的弊案具名告發的人是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
23117.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
23145.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
沒有人知道結果竟然記者把它寫出來記者把它寫出來兩個案子總長都表示痛心疾首偵查不公開的亂象都要下去查查了半天以後到目前為止到目前為止全部都查無不法謝謝指教全部遷解台北地檢署相關的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
23146.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
23168.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
法務部部長說從2018年以來有人被懲處有發現偵查不公開的專案小組要處理的小組真的有發現有違反偵查不公開結果我請你們把名單給我15個人全部都警察15個人全部都警察我完全沒有辦法理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
23174.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
23200.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
這不是司改國是會議的決議的內容嗎也要強化處理啊做了決議要強化處理處理到今天所有違反偵查不公開真的有處理的15個案子全部都警察全部都警察違反了那些內容有一些是連警察連碰都沒有碰的因為根本就不是發交給警方去辦嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
23201.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
23227.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
這樣子的結果讓全體的國人非常的失望非常的失望到2024年的時候還繼續說要強化強化在什麼地方?完全看不到以上你剛有舉手是嗎?是要舉手但是要聽最高檢察先請法務部說明請檢察中 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
23229.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
23256.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
我非常感謝黃委員有這個機會讓我來回答因為之前我要回答這個問題因為在執行都是委員的時間我們不敢耽誤委員太多的時間所以很多事情都不能讓我們充分的論述今天如果可以的話我大概簡單的報告一下我個人不想迴避任何的問題所以委員在回答問題的時候我沒有拿一些法律來當擋箭牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
23258.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
23277.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
那我們現在拿這個法令來說好了我們依據司法院所頒布的偵查不公開作業辦法講得非常清楚這種涉及到泄密的案件依照在立法院那時候前幾次黃國昌黃委員質詢的內容涉及到泄密單位的是台北地檢署因為當時指的是北檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
23278.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
23299.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
依照這個偵查不公開作業辦法這是法規命令第11條講得很清楚這是應該由他的上級機關的首長來指定有關人員3至5人來組成調查小組台北地研署的上級單位就是台灣高能檢查署這辦法的規定非常清楚在法務部法務部108年6月27號這個函裡面當時這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
23305.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
23326.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
108年6月18號主席就是現在的台高檢署的檢察長也是當時的常務次長張斗輝張次長他做的會議結論裡面講得非常清楚請台灣高等檢察署設立偵查不公開督導小組督導所屬檢查機關包括台北立研署調查局廉政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
23327.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
23351.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
由事由台高檢來督導我們最高檢察署一設督導小組督導有關內亂、外患、妨害國交等屬二審檢查管轄案件之偵查不公開這是部裡的命還有這是法規命令裡面所規定的主責單位是台灣高等檢察署 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
23352.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
23381.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
因此在體制上我們必須發交到台灣高等法院檢察署我們在回答上也可以用這個來規避來當擋箭牌但是我們覺得我們應該要負起責任因為檢查一體是大家的事情因此我們在各種場合今天在座檢察長有在場他們都非常清楚我們在公開的場合主任檢察官會議專案會議一再跟檢察官報告這個偵查不公開是我們檢察官的天責 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
23382.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
23408.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
每個人在工作上我們碰到的問題都有而且這個洩密的管道的確非常的多律師也有 法官也有都掌握很多的資訊辯護人員也掌握很多的資訊司法警察也掌握很多資訊這司法警察也搬掛了很多的機關那到底是不是講完洩密出去的這個真的很難查證但是不管怎麼樣我們要盡一定的可能來保密在各種場合也都跟他們做宣導了今天當時開會很多在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
23411.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
23431.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
另外一點在立法委員質詢的時候也承蒙我們在座的莊委員還有黃委員給我們很多關於偵查不公開的一些指導說我們回去之後我們也動員了全國的檢察官寫了一個關於偵查不公開的研究報告裡面提到了偵查保密令的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
23433.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
23455.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
還有相關的一些督導如果真的要貫徹我當時在立法院裡面我也跟黃國昌委員報告說目前的體制就是這樣你目前的制度這樣如果說不從制度跟法令來配套說是來更改的話這個戲不斷在重演我跟各位保證10年後還是有同樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
23457.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
23476.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
因此我建議說這個美國的偵查保密令是可以研究的那我們也把相關的法令相關的報告送到部裡面去了其中我們也把研究的草案送了一份給黃國昌黃委員我相信你應該也收到了總而言之這個偵查不公開是大家一起努力的不是說誰能夠負起責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
23477.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
23503.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
另外我要跟委員報告一下就是說我們這個最高檢查署預算非常的少我們的預算規模大概相當於台東地檢署因為我們人非常少經費非常拮据我們的經費大概比台東不是台中台東經費還要少一些如果把這個委員這個檢動的列下去的話我們在經費大概還不如澎湖地檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
23504.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
23518.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
那這倒沒有關係因為有多少錢做多少事沒有錢也不是不能做事但是我們在辦理一些案件裡面編列講材教材講習這都需要一些費用比如說舉例子這個國安案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
23520.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
23545.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
這幾年來因為我們這樣的規劃跟各地各機關我們的努力還有各檢察官全國各地檢察官的努力我們編列教材辦理講習我們這幾年辦的案件大概是這一兩年辦的案件是這五六年來累積起來的案件都還要多換言之經過大家努力之後這一兩年辦的案件比以前累積起來還要再多那這表示說是大家一起努力是有相當的一些成效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
23546.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
23573.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
如果說把我們這個費用減列到將近49%半一半的錢減掉的話那在我們還是當然還要繼續努力啦但是我相信這個對實際業務的推展並沒有多大的意義啦所以我們很感謝委員長在歷次的這個質詢中的確給我們很多的指導跟提示那我們也的確按照這個委員這個對我們的業務上的一些指導跟提示我們也努力往這邊來做但這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
23576.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
23593.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
今天這個社會裡面這個物價不斷在騰飛啦像比如說這個出國訪問那些錢這個機票就漲了很多很多事情如果沒有錢的話的確是相當難做事情所以這點也請這個委員量查 謝謝剛剛是翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
23601.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
23625.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
謝謝方委員承讓我這個先做一個意見表達其實89案就成如剛剛個案的檢動案的看法這是針對督導樹攤暨重大刑事案件辦理那麼這是在我們單位預算書最高檢的18頁總本來項目是編了1170萬4千元看起來金額在我們的預算書是普普啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
23625.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
23644.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那麼因為他針對的提案委員針對的不是人事費人事費剛剛有講過了是國安事項的加班費那麼是針對業務費業務費看起來呢是940萬8千元但是剛剛我們已經注了一個處理就是國外旅費的部分呢就是131萬我們就另按保留處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
23645.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
23648.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
那麼如果942萬減掉這個131萬的國外旅費的話那僅餘呢800餘萬這800餘萬當中我們看到通訊費是224萬按日寄件籌金140萬物品130萬的消心物品一般數會244萬5000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
23663.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
23679.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那其中呢這個一般事務費當中呢在下一案吳宗憲吳昭偉你本身有提出了一個一般事務費裡面你明確的指出一個50萬的宣導經費那根據我們上午的原則這些也是保留通案去辦理那如果把這個也拿掉的話呢大概就是在800萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
23681.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
23687.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
項目當中要減列200 剩下600 凍結20% 凍結160%那麼算一算 剩下600減160 剩下440萬 那麼可以來使用那當然我在這裡認為 如果我們對於預算的執行有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
23699.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
23722.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那麼用凍結的方式也不視為是一個方法因為業務機關有一個檢討改進的空間而且這個項目我看了一下它的通訊費 按日寄件籌金這些物品它大概不是屬於一次性採購的發包業務屬於逐日使用的那麼縱使凍結個10%或許假如說是800萬的10% 80萬或許他們在後續年度的後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
23727.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
23751.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
的預算執行的時候有機會更正或者有機會透過更正得到解凍還可以支用那麼如果減劣太多或者是凍結太多那等於機關他就這些日常業務耗材這些我看這些按日期間的酬金那就不用辦了那等於是說空有編制人事經費卻沒有業務費可以去執行這也不是我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
23752.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
23767.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
預算審議的目的所以我這裡具體建議是不是本案因為標的已經縮小到只有大概八百萬的範圍以內如果再扣掉五十萬那就只有七百五十萬的範圍以內那不是就這七百五十萬的部分那麼建議提案委員可以考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
23768.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
23793.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
不予剪裂但是以凍結一層的方式那麼讓機關能夠繼續運用那這是誠懇的建議我們也支持提案委員所提到樹攤是我們的重要事項但是誠如機關代表所言那麼最高檢本身的規模不大他們處理的案件都是相當特定重大的案件如果空有既有的人力編制而沒有業務經費去推動那麼事實上也是巧婦難為無米之炊那以上建議好黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
23797.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
23817.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
我說明一下之所以會動在最高檢其實我基本上面的想法是檢查中長在檢查一體的體系下面是所有檢察官的大家長而偵查不公開沒有辦法落實司改國是會議的亂象那個應該有整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
23824.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
23847.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
檢察署的大家長就是檢察中長的最高檢察署來駕馭負責不過剛剛檢察中長在法規上面就全責的劃分您所為的分析我剛剛坐在這邊非常仔細的聆聽了我想了一下行檢察中長所講的也不是完全沒有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
23849.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
23864.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
所以這個案子我沒有辦法同意鍾嘉斌委員所講的說不砍就算了但這個案子可以保留因為我到第二輪的時候到第二輪的時候黨團提案的時候我會慎重的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
23865.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
23884.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
這件事情到底是最高檢察署的高度來負責還是由高等檢察署的高度來負責如果按照刑檢察中長的說法的話那恐怕我在第二輪的提案的時候會由高等檢察署的部分來處理相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
23886.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
23898.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
那不管怎麼樣 這個案子先保留我等到第二輪的時候 最高檢察署負責還是高等檢察署負責我會找到一個最適切的方法好 謝謝 那就89案的部分那我們就 法案我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
23908.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
23911.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
這個案子當然最後是保留不過這邊我要講幾句話因為其實從這個會期這個新檢察總長接受我們的質詢有好幾次其實我也都很仔細的聽檢察總長對於偵查不公開的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
23926.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
23952.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
議題表達的意見可是每次聽來聽去總是讓我的感受就是講了半天就是這個警察警察總長這裡或是所有的檢察官都無能為力去處理偵查不公開的事情那事實上可是這個就是你們的責任啊你們剛剛講說要去跟瑞士交流跟德國交流法國交流為什麼不去問問看人家偵查不公開怎麼做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
23953.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
23979.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
真實還不公開的問題至少我覺得在德國絕對不可能像台灣這麼的嚴重那明明就是這個按照相關的法規來說就是檢查總長您這裡就當然是可以督導所有的這個檢查機關裡面要非常的對於什麼事情真實還不公開的準則你們應該要訂定出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
23981.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
24006.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
但是我真的聽了好幾次檢察總長您的談話讓我都不知道說那是偵查不公開原則乾脆把它廢了反正也做不到如果是真的做不到的話是不是真的以後我們應該那你們應該要提案修法以後台灣就沒有偵查不公開的問題委員跟委員報告一下我們最近有研究一個偵查不公開那個研究報告如果委員有興趣 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
24008.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
24011.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我們會給委員再跟我們指導一下好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
24014.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
24041.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
好吧那這樣就是89案的部分也予以保留那90案的部分因為我當時提那個主要我是有詳細的說明因為你們這個裡面有部分是包括到國安議題還有強化國安案件以及重大刑案的檢舉管道然後但是呢這個境外敵對勢力滲透這個到底要怎麼定義這個而且很容易會變成是選舉時候政治操弄的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
24042.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
24066.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
所以這個部分我覺得我還是需要你們提供比較詳細的資料讓我能夠確定一下不過我自己凍結的部分是很少只有15萬元那這個我想說這個部分就先保留好了然後到院會再去談那第91案剛剛翁小林委員已經有先提過了有說明了那請問機關這邊有沒有要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
24074.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
24087.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
沒有補充那請問一下在座的各位委員第91案翁小玲委員提案那個羅志強徐曉欣委員提案凍結30%就這個部分大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
24090.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
24116.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
有意見這個都出國計劃的嘛這個就通案了那第九十一案就一樣保留好那第二幕檢查業務第七項最高檢查署第八十八到九十一案保留送協商第七項處理完畢繼續處理第八項檢署第二幕檢查業務天安號第九十二案至第九十八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
24118.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
24145.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
我們現在92到9892案 請問黃國昌委員有要補充說明嗎我們在高檢署下面設置了一個科技監控科技設備監控過去這幾年看起來使用率跟效能非常非常的低使用率跟效能非常非常低但是在這個向下我也沒有提案要刪任何錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
24146.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
24169.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
我要求的只有凍結只有凍結百分之五那請你們在三個月內提出專案報告經統一或使得凍結因為凍結的數目值只有百分之五嘛三個月內把專案報告提來到市府法治委員會報告完以後就可以解凍了以上說明好 那莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
24172.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
24189.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
這個案子喔,那個九十二案這個是不是請黃委員再考慮一下啦我再來建議啦,你把它改成主決議來提...是啊,我很客氣啊,跟百分之五那樣的我就是因為看你客氣...我一塊都沒有刪耶我就是看你客氣,我就知道你這案子就比較可以說嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
24190.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
24202.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
所以你覺得你遭到百分之十比較有可能不要說了 我就看我的youtube就好了沒有啦今天我就看你只有5%沒有啦 我只是看你的名字所以只有5%而已5%你們可以嗎你們給他說名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
24207.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
24213.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
有關黃委員的一個關注這個問題根據我們客戶中心的一個開案件數110年4月監制到112年4月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
24223.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
24249.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
總共的確是偏低只有26件平均一年9件我們台高建署也在去年也發現這個問題所以我們也透過我們優化我們的監控平台APP以及依照院檢承辦人員的需求修正告檢的條件新增監控的功能精進設計以及簡化告檢通報的流程兼顧保障受監控人人權以及監控者準確性及有效性 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
24250.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
24274.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
此外我們也加強監控人員的相關的教育訓練讓我們全國各地的檢察事務官我們都有指定專責的人員來去密集訓練統計在最近的一年110到去年的113年12月31日為止我們的科技監控已經達到138件比較之前增加了有10倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
24275.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
24285.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
另外也跟大院報告目前我們科技設備監控114年的度的預算編列3653萬8千元如果凍結可能3千多萬元其中我們113年的科技監控的預算還沒有去統計最後的一個執行率 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
24299.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
24319.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
是93%它大部分都是系統的維護以及人員的一些的監控跟它的案件數的關聯性並不大那我跟它的大院報告那基本上我們抬高監數非常的重視我們要求各地的檢查數甚至我們法院那邊我們也邀請他們來參訪我們的科控中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
24322.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
24339.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
我們也信心我們今年一定會有更大幅度的提升會建議是不是大院可以來的是我們改成主局或者是減少我們的凍結的一個數目是不是給我們凍結的100萬我想這部分我們都會努力來去達成那個我們監控的一個目標 以上好 黃委員既然這麼有信心的話三個月以後來做專案報告大家同意就解凍啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
24350.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
24374.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
既然這麼有信心就來做一個專案報告嘛第二個部分我再說一次對台灣高檢署我已經很客氣了我一毛錢都沒有散我只動百分之五如果這樣還沒有辦法接受那沒有關係那就保留我到第二輪提案的時候針對台灣高檢署的預算會重新的再review一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
24377.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
24388.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
就是 法院不然這樣子啦 我的提議啦專案報告你就看他們的成效啦 我們不要毀書免德啦專案報告你如果說有需要 再來擺就好啊所以你那個專案報告給它蓋起來 不要再專案給不死大家沒用的你就想不想有需要的時候 交給你們一個 我們也一個擺也沒關係啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
24402.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
24424.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
就不要專案報告啦你說動百分之五不要專案報告那永遠不解動就對了也不是書面就好書面報告但是我要加金同意喔金同意我一定要喔你要改書面報告你如果這樣講我OK啦但是要金同意喔那個不是寫一個書面報告來就可以了因為我之前講過這跟專委員個人沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
24428.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
24448.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
這種書面報告我看太多了啦全部都在寫作文啦我希望的是什麼針對問題點對點的因為我其實也蠻想看到高檢所的檢察長來有很多問題因為平常我們排他也根本不會來嘛你排個專案報告大家有很多問題都可以問他嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
24449.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
24476.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
他沒有平常我們一年喔 看他看一幾年就審預算的時候啊啊沒有平常他什麼時候會來我後面去替你擺好不好沒有啦沒有啦 後面啦不要啦 我是覺得高檢署這個齁他們的業務齁我們這個差別就只在一個是不是專案報告啦專案報告其實是有雙召會嘛齁那你如果認為有必要報告寫得不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
24478.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
24497.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
我們拿來擺就好了給你看如果沒有就不理我另外跟委員報告因為在我們科控總共的經費只有三千多萬元那現在目前動勢動到幾乎是不是動光是不是如果是委員要動的話那是不是動我們檢查的業務讓我們提一個書面的報告再來解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
24502.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
24515.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
沒有啊 你看嘛我動的是12款第8項第二幕我們都以幕當作單位來處理嘛所以在這個幕裡面應該是6億9833萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
24518.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
24532.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
那是包含我們除了還有打炸毒品是啦是啦所以只有5%啊5%三個月所以你現在是有打算三個月裡面執行率可以超過95%不可能嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
24536.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
24550.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
我動只是手段欸檢察長請您要聽得懂我的善意我再說一次高等檢察署我一塊都沒有刪一塊都沒有刪我只動百分之五我要求的只有來做一個專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
24551.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
24572.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
把大家關心的事情回答清楚自然而然就解凍了那謝謝議長委員那這部分我們就同意那個那個議長委員的一個剛剛的一個意見我們這個就是提三個月內提書面報告那另外有關於這部分的科控我相信我們就會有更多的測驚作為以上三個月內提書面報告要經同意使得動之喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
24576.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
24595.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
是不是可以讓我們體驗書面報告我相信我們體驗書面報告一定會有更多的車警作為對不起 沒有辦法高等法院檢察署的書面報告我看過很多啦我從我第一次當立委的時候就看過非常的多了那我們要僵持在這件事情也沒有關係那就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
24598.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
24616.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
所以剛剛不是已經講好 所以之後還是要保留嗎對 就保留因為剛剛聽起來 我以為高檢檢察長是同意不是啊 他只要一個書面報告啊現在差別在於沒有專案報告啦但是你們的書面還是要經委員會同意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
24617.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
24620.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
如果這樣那第92案的部分我們就凍結5%那這個部分等高檢署提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
24634.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
24647.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
是提出書面報告並經同意之後於解凍通過好那第93案的部分我主要是提到因為高檢署需要再送人出去培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
24649.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
24671.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
這個教育訓練的部分他是要進行測謊訓練但是我看了一下目前有幾個問題第一個就是測謊他其實在法院他並沒有全面承認他有一個證據能力所以測謊並不是我國刑事訴訟法所法定的調查證據的方法那高檢署前三年已經安排兩個人去受訓了 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
24672.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
24700.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
那再來我們目前國內也有調查局連政署或是警政署的刑事局也都有測謊的人員那到底有這個必要嗎所以這個部分我希望高檢署能夠在兩個月內能夠向我們提出書面報告那書面報告這樣子我們才才可以解凍來就這個部分請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
24702.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
24729.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
機關這邊有沒有意見跟委員報告從108年開始我們台高檢署那個成立北中南山區的測訪中心總共有選任四位那個到國外美國受訓的但是測訪是一個高壓的業務這個四人其中有兩人因為那個業務非常的繁重那個另有生涯規劃已經離職目前只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
24730.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
24754.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
兩位那測謊在目前刑事訴訟法雖然不能當作法院的唯一的一個證據但是還是個補強證據但是最主要在我們檢方的一個測謊我想那個主席你也非常了解他可以當作我們有重大的刑案他整個釐清我們調查的方向或者是其他的一些重要的一個案件作為我們檢察官的一個偵辦方向的一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
24755.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
24781.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
那我們在今年編的這些費用其實還是送我們美國來做相關的一個訓練我們希望不要斷了我們這個的整個的檢查的一些的測謊的一個人力因為會影響我們這個基層那個同仁對於偵辦重大或矚目案件的整個的一個測謊人力以便我們能夠來去釐清事實的一個真相那以上跟趙偉來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
24783.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
24793.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
甲長請問一下你們之前送出去接受測謊訓練的人那當時有沒有跟他們簽約或有沒有要求他們回來必須要服務滿幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
24795.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
24818.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
因為他都是我們的同仁 那我們好像是沒有要求是並沒有要求 但是他們都服務了一段時間因為他在測訪要半年的一個訓練那回來的話案件量非常的多 那個是壓力很大所以這四位其中已經有兩位已經離職了所以我們這次再選派 這主要是要來去補充這相關的人力這部分是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
24819.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
24837.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
規範有所不足因為我印象中有一些單位他送同仁出國去進修的話那都會要求回來要服務打兩倍或三倍的時間至少那這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
24838.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
24859.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
因為如果這樣的話我們送同仁出國去做測謊訓練他們回來他就直接辭職去民間機關上班就可以了因為現在有一些律師事務所跟會計師事務所他們也有提供民間的測謊服務所以這樣變成說好像我們用公費在替民間的公司培養 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
24861.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
24883.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
這個測謊人才所以我想請問一下警察長這部分有沒有相關規定目前是沒有相關的規定不過跟那個主席報告那個測謊要選送他們出去其實這個是我們都必須要去說服要有熱心的一個同仁那如果有規定恐怕更沒有人有意願來去前往新的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
24884.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
24913.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
我覺得如果說送他出去因為那個測謊的證照我有看過那是非常難得的嘛那如果說我們對這樣的要求然後然後就認為沒有人要去接受那就算了那這個費用就不要啦不要羅列因為目前吼調查局連證書以及刑事警察局都有測謊的人員那如果這樣的話我就覺得沒這個必要性啊否則你授訊回來他去因為你現在好多律師事務所都有提供欸提供這個服務欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
24915.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
24935.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
報告主席 是不是容我們以書面來報告改成主決議這部分我們會更詳細的去說明更有趣的我們關注的相關的議題我們說明的更清楚一點因為我覺得這個部分可能不是就這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
24938.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
24967.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
那另外我跟那個我認為說送出國去取得證照然後然後高檢署並沒有要求他回來要服務多久其實這有一點在浪費國內的預算那報告主席其實其中的那兩位他們我們選送出去都非常的優秀那兩位檢察司官這跟優秀與否無關我也相信能夠被檢察長挑到一定非常優秀我的意思是說因為這是國家的預算那我希望培養的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
24968.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
24968.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
他回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
24970.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
24998.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
因為之前也是啊你公費送出去的人都有規定回來要服務兩倍的時間嘛你送出去兩年回來就是至少服務四年以上啊你才能夠離開啊報告主席他並沒有離開我們檢查體系他們還在我們檢查體系裡面但是至少這你們要有相關的規定吧他並沒有 他還是在我們另外也跟大家主席報告其中這兩位士官又非常的優秀那後來有經過考上我們的檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
25001.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
25027.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
這個話不是這樣講啊因為我們編列預算送他出國去進修取得這個證照結果回來之後我們就讓他去做別的事情了那他是要考試考上的並不是那個我們那個有選他那個人我知道啊但是如果照你這樣講那我幹嘛送他們出去周委又是出國了通案通案 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
25028.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
25034.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
通案,你過去講過去取答的,保留了,我幫你提倡一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
25045.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
25059.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
中委員因為這是教育訓練費用這不是出國什麼開會所以這教育訓練費用因為我今天比較執著的點是說我今天送人花那麼多錢送了一個同仁出去學習取得測謊的證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
25061.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
25087.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
那個那個證照也是很難得的證照結果回來他可能就職務調動或他不想幹了就走了那可能去民間的測謊公司所以我們公家機關在送人出國去進修的時候其實我們很多時候都要求他回來他必須服務兩倍或三倍的時間你才能夠離開那我的意思只是這樣因為如果說我們今天沒有一個最基本的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
25088.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
25115.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
或者是說人力的部分因為我剛有提到了調查局、廉政署跟行政警察局都有測謊的人力那是不是我們高檢署還要再安排這麼多因為前面幾年已經培養了四位測謊的人但是有兩位已經不在這個位置上那我的意思只是這樣那因為你送人送去美國接受測謊的訓練然後取得證照其實這也要花蠻多錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
25118.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
25140.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
另外跟那個主席報告那依照剛剛我們人事處長的一個提醒那依照法律的規定帶子帶性出國的話必須要回國要扶兩倍的時間的一個的一個才有辦法來去離開否則是那個這部分是未完相關的規定對我印象中有這個規定啊對那我們是目前實際上那實際上他們都超過這樣的一個時間啦這樣有給你解釋嗎看你聽下去不會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
25149.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
25171.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
我本來以為趙偉你要談的是證據能力的問題啦不是啦 後來如果不是的話因為你講的是說我們好像在幫民間培養嘛那現在高金屬的講法是說不會那回來還是要有兩倍的時間如果這講是真的的話那趙偉倒是不用我這樣的一個疑慮啦倒是可以支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
25175.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
25201.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
好啦,那這樣齁,我看齁這樣的話,還是說我這個就是保留好了啦,就去院會協商啦我看就這樣好不好好,那謝謝主席我想說大家講的各有各的道理好吧,那就這樣,我不堅持這個好,那第九十,那我們現在齁審查第九十四案那請問陳俊宇委員有無要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
25203.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
25230.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
我知道剛剛中召委說改組決議也要問一下在場的委員好那如果沒有意見的話那請問訪問部就第94案有意見嗎 遵照辦理好謝謝那就修正後組決議通過那第95案請問有沒有他們兩位都沒在嘛好那第95案部分有沒有意見要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
25237.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
25255.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
這個都涉及到出國旅費 那就保留好 謝謝 那第95案就保留那96案 這我提的好 這國安 那就一樣予以保留好了好 那97案一樣 這檢查業務的部分 97案 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
25266.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
25267.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
好 九七案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
25272.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
25298.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
我想請問一下就是有關這個司法精神病院這些等等還有一些外聘保全的這些問題還有辦理過兩次共八場的教育訓練那執行率只有20.78那所以這個維安人員的聘用率不如預期那我想這個部分是不是能麻煩法務部這邊說明一下第九期案我有給你們提案表 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
25304.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
25324.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
我們目前司法精神的一個病房北部以及東部已經在去年年底已經完成了我們今年我們的執行率4比2提升當然還有一個是中部這部分也目前進行相關的一個招標那有關於相關的人力我們法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
25324.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
25339.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
也指示我們台高建樹也密切的來去做相關的一個試檢的規劃那這部分我們台高建樹一定會全力以赴我們是不是盡情是不是這個案件能夠給我們凍結500萬元這部分我們會持續的努力什麼意思我剛剛沒有聽到8來去凍結那個500萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
25351.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
25370.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
我看97跟98那個我又要講就是說司法精神病院司法精神病院這個東西是全民一直在關注的因為這幾年有一些精神病患在社會上面有傷害或殺人的行為但是後來司法都沒有辦法耐他和只能放他回家 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
25370.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
25398.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
那造成社會的不安但是我們目前司法精神病院又還沒有設置完成所以導致這些人你也關不了他你也無法限制他自由你也沒有辦法把他放在醫院所以他還是在外面跑那他如果有任何刑事犯罪在目前我國司法制度下面又沒有辦法定他的罪那又沒有辦法定他的罪進去關又沒有辦法把他放在那個管束他的自由那有時候造成很多人民眾會有恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
25399.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
25411.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
所以這個我們是要求這一定要趕快做好好那你們是希望說跟98改動解50097跟98就合併啦 然後凍結500然後提書面啦 但是也請你們趕快要去落實啦好不好98那邊也是500啦 看招牌你要給他幾次沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
25423.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
25452.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
那也是人力的弱勢我倒覺得還好啦像這個部分涉及到也倒不是說什麼該如何去監督或者有什麼弊端的部分跟剛剛前面所提的不太一樣啦但只是說確實喔這個部分我看那個執行率確實要加把勁好不好另外報告主席因為這部分不是牽涉到我們台高檢測是保護部還牽涉到那個衛福部那這部分我們檢查機關說實在是更心急各位 跨機關了 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
25454.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
25470.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
這個建制派要看幾關所以我們覺得動議的也沒意思500人我幫你先問一下翁委員翁委員第98案的部分喔你是改動捷500萬因為我這個金額跟動捷500萬差距還蠻大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
25482.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
25502.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
其實我們真的非常的努力我們一直在協商但是有時候基礎精神病院並不是那麼簡單的一個成立目前北部以及跟東部已經成立了他們有跟我談過了就了解他們的問題確實也不是他們一個單位可以這樣處理那翁委員你跟他們談過了是不是對 談過了我記得談過了有 有談過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
25512.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
25531.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
好那這樣齁那沒關係那我這邊就因為我剛有說嘛就是法務部都沒有來找過所以我沒有機會跟法務部溝通啦但是翁委員有跟法務部溝通過那有啦他們都有來找我談而且很多人其實對好OK謝謝齁那那個第九十 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
25534.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
25557.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
第二幕檢查業務提案案號第九十二案至第九十八案第九十四案改為主決議那九三九五九六保留第二幕檢查業務向下辦理行事案件偵查及執行等業務凍結三四九一萬七千元那強化社會安全網第二期計劃凍結五百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
25563.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
25590.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
那繼續處理第八項台高檢之主決議提案案號第99案那第99案請問陳俊委員有沒有要補充好那請問那個法務部對第99案有意見沒有意見那我們就依照主決議通過沒有我已經退一退我就是尊重那個翁委員的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
25592.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
25607.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
那主決議第99案 召喚通過第12款第8項 抬高檢處理完畢繼續處理第14項台灣台北地方檢察署第一幕一般行政提案案號第100案好那第100案 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
25615.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
25642.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
好 第一百案我想說剛剛都有都有人提過相類似的啦就是有關北檢的那個特別費的部分那我們這個部分我們是希望凍結百分之三十來就是十六萬八千元好 那請保護署這邊表示意見保留啦 這跟前面一樣沒關係 保護署先表示一下意見啦你保證會叫他講 他要怎麼講好 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
25648.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
25671.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
跟委員報告就是這個部分上次委員來視察我們台北地檢署後那我們有針對委員所關切的問題我們都有提出這個檢討改進那相關的這個改進的措施我們現在目前都已經逐步在落實當中那當然我們也希望說委員可以同意我們這個改為主決議然後提這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
25679.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
25702.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
這個有關這個政大不公開這個部分我想說還是要麻煩你們多努力啦包括那個總長還有部長其實這一塊要麻煩多努力就是有關政大不公開因為其實你們去看一下那個檢察官論壇北檢以外的其他地檢組其實酸北檢酸得很厲害 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
25704.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
25725.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
因為我們以前同事都跟我講我現在當然沒有全線進去看檢察官論壇但是我們很多以前同事他們進去看其他地檢是酸北檢酸的還蠻難聽的所以這不是只有民間或不懂法律或不懂檢查業務的人有這個感覺而是連檢察官自己都覺得北檢你到底在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
25725.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
25753.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
所以這部分再麻煩北檢這邊再多努力那這個我想說這樣好了啦這個這部分我看還是保留好了就保留那之後再到院會去協商好那第一幕一般行政第一百案保留送協商那繼續處理第31項台灣宜蘭地方檢察署第三幕一般建築及設備提案案號第101案 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
25756.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
25777.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
公務車的部分我們前面也都保留了好那就101的部分我看這部分就保留好了因為這個好像是電動車的那個黃委員你當初這一塊你是不是也有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
25779.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
25794.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
我好像有聽你講過我是贊成就是剛剛莊委員所講的保留啦因為老實講就是說我必須要講說 趙偉 鍾憲雄真的很客氣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
25796.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
25821.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
沒有必要就一百九十四萬全部都把它刪掉了才三個三十萬你才三個六十萬嘛那沒關係啦因為三個六十萬是要改車種還是什麼我也看不懂如果真的沒有必要的話我們到第二輪的時候就一百九十四萬全部都把它給刪掉了所以我贊成保留啦了解 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
25824.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
25832.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
因為那時候是這樣啦就是我當時看到說宜蘭地檢好像說他汰換的車輛好像是堅持要換電動車嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
25835.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
25858.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
所以因為電動車的 是這樣嘛 就是價格也不低啦也蠻高的 所以然後有沒有這個必要性 那另外我們現在既然我們的發電是這種發電模式 電動車也沒有環保到哪裡去所以我當時才會覺得說這部分要減列60萬那沒關係 那現在101我看第101案我們就預保留好 道遠會再協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
25861.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
25885.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
好 第三幕保留好了 不然我們立法院都電動車結果我們在刮別人都沒有啦 不一樣的電動車啦 不一樣隨便啦 蠻貴的你看一下他那個你就知道好 第三幕 一般建築及設備第101案保留送協商繼續處理第37項調查局第102案派員出國計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
25893.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
25900.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
黃委員有沒有要補充調查局的部分因為我處理兩個部分102案是出國 派員出國105案是媒體宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
25907.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
25934.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
這兩個案子在我們之前討論的通案當中基本上都是保留到院會的時候統一去做處理只不過102案跟105案伴隨著這兩個案子我有兩件事情我要公開的提醒我們電話局的局長要特別注意這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
25935.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
25964.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
第一件事情是大概從蔡清祥當吊牙局局長卸任容身法務部部長以後吊牙局出現一個非常奇怪非常奇怪的一種習俗什麼習俗啊就是吊牙局局長卸任以前都要辦畢業旅行什麼叫畢業旅行啊花大把納稅人的錢跑到國外去 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
25966.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
25990.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
這件事情我從我第一次當立委的時候我就在追蹤了因為我第一次當立委的時候啊是蔡清祥從第二級局長下來升法務部部長到這一次第二次我一樣在追蹤相關的單據我全部都調出來我看了那個錢啊我真的是看到瞠目結舌 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
25994.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
26016.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
現在換你當局長我希望你回去局裡面探聽一下我會講的這麼特定具體就是你們局裡面有人看不下去到底是誰在搞這種事情的你回去局裡面探聽一下就知道了第二件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
26018.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
26045.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
我前幾天是基於善意請你來把情資都提供給你了調查局的同仁在偵辦犯罪特別是我最痛恨的組織犯罪你不要在自己調查局的同仁被黑幫的人滲透都渾然不知一批一批帶去的跟組織犯罪的成員吃飯 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
26048.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
26075.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
那個傳出來對調查局的整個士氣傷害非常的大但我有探聽過你的名聲局裡面很多人對你的正直是肯定的所以我希望這件事情我沒有公開質詢就讓你自己回去把事情給處理好102跟105案這兩個案子因為都牽涉到通案的所以大概就保留吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
26077.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
26088.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
好那這樣子那我們是不是102案就保留報主席請說保留我們這邊都沒有意見但有關那個102案是不是請容我有這個機會跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
26093.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
26116.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
那因為我只講重點102案其實我們原來編的是比去年還少那之所以今年會有增加是因為今年有一場這個台美國際這個企圖合作論壇那去年是在我們台灣舉行的那今年要移到美國的華府去舉辦那所以會有增加這一個出國的預算所以會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
26117.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
26125.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
那另外在這個出國的項目裡面有一個比較重要的要跟委員報告就是有關於我們國家在這個洗錢防治組織裡面的這個重要性目前我們是艾格蒙聯盟的會員然後也是APG的會員那並且我們除了是會員以外我們還是其他要申請入會的國家的輔導會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
26141.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
26154.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
那目前我們是在福島、越南還有帛琉進到這個艾格蒙聯盟的組織裡面所以艾格蒙聯盟的相關的這些組織每年都有聯會、工作會議還有一些論壇那我們成為一個重要的會員國我們都有必要有義務要去出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
26161.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
26179.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
那另外一個比較更重要的狀況就是目前中國他還不是艾格蒙聯盟的會員他是APG的會員可是他還不是艾格蒙聯盟的會員那可是在這個艾格蒙聯盟的會議裡面中國一直也想要加進來那他加進來的條件他要求秘書處就是要改我們國家的會籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
26180.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
26196.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
他才要加進來那目前秘書處是對我們中華民國對我們調查局FIU是非常非常的支持所以一直中國沒有機會進來所以這個出國的會議對我們來說是非常非常的重要如果我們沒有固守 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
26197.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
26211.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
到這個會員的這個資格的話我們可能在這個國際上我們可能又會失去一部分的這個一個發言的地位我想這個比較重要的會議我提出來跟委員報告請求委員支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
26215.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
26227.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
我們就一樣我們剛剛所說的就是派人出國計劃第102案保留送協商繼續處理第一幕一般行政提案案號第103案第104案中委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
26231.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
26240.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
我要給你補充一下那個車子的部分我知道立法院也用很多電動車但是因為宜蘭他們要求買那個特斯拉然後他的車價是185萬電動窗9萬那我們認為說其實當時我是覺得這個價格過高他們同時還要再買一部警備車是88萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
26248.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
26267.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
你知道首長用車total加起來是194萬然後另外一部警備車還少他100多萬 只要88萬那首長的用車有沒有必要用到那樣等級或是其他地檢署看了會不會不爽 這我們都要考量所以我當時才會有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
26269.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
26295.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
我們還是給他保留啦只是說剛剛莊委員有提到說我們立法院也用電動車那為什麼我們對宜蘭歷檢用電動車有意見但那個等級不一樣所以當時我就認為等級不一樣我才有這個意見您是就等級不是對車廠啦不是對特斯拉有意見沒有沒有因為他要194萬我們也知道因為特斯拉這個車廠沒有啦那我確定一下因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
26296.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
26312.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
因為一般我們的那個共同供應契約它其實是設規格啦那車廠的話是因為來投標的時候決定的不是由採購機關決定的那我不曉得這個案是不是共同供應契約因為對不起剛我不在如果問錯了就我的資料並 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
26313.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
26341.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
對沒有討論因為這個部分我想說就保留那只是說剛剛沖委員有跟我問說我們立法院也是用電動車為什麼我們可以那因為兩個差距太遠他要194萬那我想說這可能好沒關係我們還是一樣就用保留的方式處理好那103104103案有沒有委員要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
26343.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
26366.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
其實103案也是涉及到國外差旅費的部分啦就調查局的這個國外差旅費那麼其實理由已經跟我們在之前去審查其他保護部下面的機關的國外差旅費的意思是一樣的那麼所以這個部分的話就也建議就通案處理就予以保留好那就對然後那104案的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
26368.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
26395.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
這個調查局雖然不是我提案但是因為我連署我就幫羅志強跟許曉欣講這個案子現在進入到104了嗎因為我看這邊有登記說已經改組決議了是改組決議嗎那我這裡沒有登記到我這裡的資料這已經有改了已經改了是不是好沒關係改了就改了好那就這樣第103案的部分我們就予以保留各位有沒有不同意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
26396.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
26419.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
好那沒有的話103案保留那104案就是修正後主決議通過有沒有意見沒有好第一幕一般行政第三七項調查局第104案改為主決議第103案保留送協商接著處理第二幕司法調查業務提案案號第105案至第107案好105案 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
26425.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
26450.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
請問一下黃委員有沒有要補充這我剛剛就說啦105案牽涉到有關媒體宣傳的這也是到第二輪的時候統一處理所以就先保留那105案予以保留各位有意見沒有的話105案我們就予以保留那106案106案也是一樣因為這也涉及到媒體宣傳費也是予以保留那107案 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
26455.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
26477.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
國外旅費一樣予以保留嘛對不對就一樣送用費那第二幕司法調查業務第105至107案保留送協商接著處理第三幕鑑識科學及通訊監察業務提案號第108案第109案108案翁曉琳委員有沒有要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
26481.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
26494.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
108案的主要是針對調查局在114年有提出一個鑑識科學及通訊監察業務的工作計畫那麼裡面有談到就是也是跟打擊這個計畫是屬於這個打擊詐欺經費的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
26501.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
26527.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
因為整個費用已變得蠻高的而且相對於內政部警政署在預算書裡面明確列示的計劃名稱比較清楚但是調查局的相關的預算卻沒有呈現計劃名稱經費總額實行情節等等所以沒有辦法充分去檢視打擊詐欺經費的全貌再說就是調查局也沒有於跨年期計劃裡面的概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
26531.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
26548.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
所需要的這個經費需求就這樣的計劃編列基本上也不利本院預算審議及外部監督所以我本席在這邊提出凍結預算一千萬等到調查局兩個月內向司法法治委員會提出專案報告之後才可以凍結好那黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
26555.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
26584.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
這個案子我在審通訊保障監察法的時候事實上我就已經提過網路流量紀錄為了打炸的需求我們在通保法裡面去年上個會期的時候通過了在這個法案處理的過程當中我就特別提出來建置費用非常高建置費用非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
26585.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
26608.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
那除了有去一開始建置的費用以外還有付給電信業者的費用那我現在比較擔心啊是網路流量紀錄的這個東西啊他們是不是坐地起價坐地起價會造成支出的成本非常非常的高啊但是因為我們在修法的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
26610.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
26636.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
我們同意了這件事情那現在要把關的是修法通過了以後具體實踐的問題當初在修法的過程當中我已經把我的疑慮充分表達了那那個時候修法過程當中大家的共識是說也不會馬上買要等到今年的預算編預算了以後才會下去建置才會去付錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
26638.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
26657.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
那因此這件事情我們就要落實那個時候在修法的時候所講的內容所以在這個象下我沒有刪任何的錢我沒有刪任何錢是用凍結的方式要求你們提出專案報告請同意以後時的凍結以上說明好 那中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
26660.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
26674.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
好 這個陳儒提案委員 是不是我們現在108、109一併討論因為這兩個案子呢 一個是翁委員動1000一個是黃委員動兩成 20%項目呢 都是同一個項目所以主席我們就是同時談這兩個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
26675.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
26699.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
沒錯啦好那因為的確在通訪法的時候呢都有委員在關心因為一方面我們希望能夠打造能夠留下的網路流量的記錄但是呢就三大電信業者的表示那時候我們深深的去討論了到底要在哪裡去設置這樣的設備那其實提案委員黃委員那時候在審查法那時候也提出他的一套看法譬如說在其他國家他們初步 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
26700.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
26723.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
那掌握的一份內部評估報告可能的金額大概是多少或者諸如此類的的確在那個時候呢這個題目的討論啊我是覺得有待進一步闡明因為到底目前這樣的一個大家肉人魂是必要的我想這個提案委員肯認所以是用凍結的方式來表達那另外呢我這邊覺得剩下兩點要處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
26725.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
26754.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
就是到底有沒有給予國內三大通信業者完全沒有一個平衡的要求也就是說基於政府打詐那我們需要建設的這個設備那業者他有沒有在法定上的義務要配合配合到什麼程度這些所需要的費用他在分攤上是否是該掛由政府來負擔當時在審議的時候那時候調查局的意思是說我們要來承擔因為那不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
26755.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
26778.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
業者他在執行他特許的通信業務上他所必要的那如果是因為我們立法而形成的一個負擔並不是業者本來就應該有的義務那的確那這樣子這些設備所添購的費用可能政府就要編列預算但是編列的預算是否超出實際必要這個有必要進一步闡明 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
26778.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
26805.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
那另外呢縱使在這個地方未明之前因為預算審議有它的時間急迫性所以呢我們用凍結的方式假設是採取凍結那凍結的數額會不會影響到在我們打造工作的推動因為呢之前有類似的凍結案結果呢那個凍結案只要一凍下去整年度的預算在招標上就沒辦法適用了因為那是我舉個例子呢那個例子是之前在審議某一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
26807.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
26816.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
一個人事支出的部分那我就不便講是哪個單位那他們整年度因為那個發包要做監控那如果你給他凍結了 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
26817.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
26841.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
年初一月份因為金額無法發包所以整年度就停擺那如果是那種屬性的我們凍結不管5% 50% 一一都是一樣就這個事情就不用做了所以我是覺得待會列席機關代表要說明的時候要慘明這筆預算我們審議的時候我們要求的是要知道沒有去浪費納稅人的稅金 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
26844.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
26864.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
能夠保證達到效果但是我們所採取的手段能不能獲得會不會適得其反因為我看這邊凍結兩層啊那麼如果一般我們所知道政府機關的那個採購案呢你凍了兩層那可能就買不到了好 如果是一次性的採購尤其是如此那這點請業務單位說明好 那麻煩保護部說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
26870.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
26897.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
主席委員大家好那個其實我們調查局的這個計劃其實主計劃是含括在警政署的這個網路科技運用精進計劃裡面有一百多億那所有的硬體的建置都其實都是在警政署那邊那我們本委員會審查的我們調查局的部分其實是這個網路流量落地了以後我們去給他調來了後端的分析我們是做後端的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
26897.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
26923.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
的這個部分而已所以這個部分我們明年是編了5億400萬那確實如果說動了20%的話其實大概我們應該是沒有辦法做一個完整的發標招標對發報出去因為我們必須在這個過程裡面必須要配合警政署他們的相關的這些規格大家都要一致沒辦法說他做他的我們做我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
26924.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
26939.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
我們三檢的項目可能我們就沒有辦法執行整個後端的這個流量的分析所以是不是可以容我有一個建議是不是可以併那個翁委員那一案就是動一千萬然後讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
26944.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
26955.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
動因為這個這個有無益多啦動一千萬我們我們還可以勉強去去執行啦那一千萬我們來跟委員報告再來解凍這個可以如果一口氣動20%的話我們大概連發報我們都不敢發報啊這完全沒辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
26962.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
26974.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
我是覺得機關代表要說明清楚你們這個發包是什麼才行因為聽起來好像是有將近上百億的設備投資預算是編列在警政署那我們使用者要付費 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
26976.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
27004.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
那麼我們付的錢不是付給警政署而是呢在做後端的資料分析的時候需要有相關的軟體跟硬體是這個意思嗎那這個等於是說有人去發明了叫破解密碼的一套機器那你為了要破解密碼你必須呢再裝一個判讀器沒有這個判讀器他買的那一百多億的破解密碼的設備對你來講你就不能使用了是這樣那這一個對你們終端使用業者需要的這個採購案 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
27006.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
27018.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
你們是採取什麼樣的方式去招標這套系統簡單的講 用最簡單的白話講就是能夠知道這個駭客的足跡我們可以去溯源 去溯這個駭客的足跡有辦法採購嗎 有辦法招標嗎因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
27029.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
27043.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
巴奧委員 主席 各位委員我是通信政策處廖崇賢那請容我多花一點點時間跟各位委員報告一下這個網路科技運用精進計畫的一個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
27045.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
27064.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
那大概在行政院的召開的會議總共歷時了三年的時間那我們調查局最大的貢獻就是在112年的時候我們提出了網路流量概念驗證系統這樣一個採購案那麼這樣一個採購案我們提出了一個計算的基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
27065.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
27071.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
在行政院開會的過程中有了一個決定就是這個計畫的經費是107億7,880萬元那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
27083.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
27093.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
其實事實上也證明了一個事情就是說當我們提出這樣的一個經費的一個評估之後呢那後來因為是警政署主責來寫這個計畫那這個計畫在撰寫的過程請廠商三大業者 電信業者來提這個相關的經費的時候其實這個經費他們所提報的經費達到了176億 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
27107.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
27120.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
也就是說事實上如果我們沒有一個概念驗證系統的一個評估基準的話那麼業者所提出來的經費將會更高那所以我們才會最後我們就是檢證署這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
27122.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
27141.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
依照行政院的決議在這個計畫裡面呢就列出這個經費是107億那我們調查局會獨立建置分析系統最主要原因就是因為我們負責國家安全跟犯罪調查兩項重大任務那麼後端的分析系統的規格 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
27142.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
27162.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
沒有辦法跟其他的單位相整合所以我們才會把這個經費給獨立出來也就是說107億裡面有總共是有8億元的經費是由吊車局來執行那麼我們今年執行了就是5億零4百萬以上報告黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
27170.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
27195.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
我想齁,我具體的講,讓大海局也好,讓警政署也好,可以清晰的了解第一個,當初在通報法的時候,放入了網路流量記錄這件事情你們應該知道,社會上是有反對的聲音的那個時候對我們來講,我當然請教了很多老師的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
27196.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
27223.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
那他們支持這個計畫認為有必要性所以我們扛住了那個壓力我最後黨團所提出來的版本我還是把網路流量紀錄給放進去了但是去年在審法案的過程當中我同時也關心說到底要花多少錢所以我才請你們去做一個評估但我必須要老實說如果印象沒錯的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
27224.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
27250.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
那個評估大概花了一千八百萬如果我印象沒記錯,應該是花了一千八百萬叫中華電信還是中華電信的一個子公司出了一個評估報告我老實講,我看了一千八百萬的報告我不知道那個報告為什麼值一千八百萬我很誠實的講我看完了以後,完全不知道為什麼要花一千八百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
27252.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
27275.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
做那種東西的報告連裡面他推薦使用的軟體都有問題我在法案審查的過程當中我都很清楚的點出來現在我最擔心的是什麼現在我最擔心的是所謂的網路流浪紀錄在電信業者的手上那等於是完全就是他們獨佔的市場坐地起價坐地起價打納稅人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
27281.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
27305.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
當肥羊在宰這個是我最擔心的事情那你說招標案動了動了沒有辦法執行事情沒有辦法這樣簡化了你們到第二輪以前你們還有機會把整個付款的期程什麼事情要付多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
27306.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
27318.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
什麼時候付多少錢他的網路流量紀錄是按照每個月來收嗎像在繳電話費一樣嗎還是他一次要收一年電信公司他們開出來的條件是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
27321.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
27329.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
那三大電信業者不要以為好像data在他們手上可以坐地起價我愛怎麼開價就怎麼開價從197億到107億那我這樣看起來他那個價格彈性非常有彈性啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
27339.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
27367.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
本來不是說要197億現在107億就可以做了哇一口氣少了90億聽起來好像毫無氣甘願但大家在更關心的事情是什麼更關心的事情是你背後後面的那個成本結構到底是怎麼算出來的所以我具體的講這個案子先保留到時候要處理的時候也不是只有處理你們掉下去啦警政署那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
27368.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
27389.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
我們會一併處理那在這個之前請調查局跟警政署這邊聯繫你們現在跟廠商談判你們那個付款的期程到底是怎麼定的付款的期程到底是怎麼定的那我們才能夠決定說在預算審查的把關上到底要怎麼做會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
27390.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
27413.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
因為這個第一個月齁 我必須要老實講 一簽下去喔那個有定毛效應所謂有定毛效應啊 是那個電信業者知道可以扒這麼多毛了以後以後每年每年喔那個網路流量紀錄不是編一年的預算然後就幫你一直收集欸 那是每年每年要弄欸我現在腦袋裡面在想的是一年一百億喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
27414.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
27425.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
一年一百億丟下去這個網路流量紀錄在我們犯罪偵查上面我們做了這個投資它的效益到底是什麼現在我必須要老實講 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
27427.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
27451.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
我被一些老師說服他們跟我說有需要所以我們扛住壓力放進去了但是我們同時要對納稅人負責這個東西一定下去了以後是一年一百億一年一百億這樣子搞你搞到最後是網路流量紀錄我們會具體的review你每一年因為這個網路流量紀錄你多偵破了多少案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
27453.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
27473.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
你多偵破多少案件 查獲多少犯罪所得你如果說國家丟一百億下去結果出來了他的效益真的又到網路流量紀錄因為有這個網路流量紀錄因此而偵破的案件數是慘不忍睹的話我們大家都要共同 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
27474.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
27496.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
背這個責任所以請注意我們現在在談的不是一百萬不是一千萬甚至不是一億是每一年要丟多少錢在這件事情上面我們目前針對網路流量紀錄它可以產生的效益都還只是空中的大餅化成具體的東西到底長什麼樣子都還沒有人知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
27503.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
27521.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
黃委員剛剛提的東西我覺得非常重要,而且我們也不應該讓電信業者坐地起價變價格他們說了算,然後給你亂抬高一堆價格所以目前是這樣,看起來是這樣108109我們就保留108及1092 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
27530.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
27559.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
可是因為你跟109是一樣的沒有關係可以先同意他的就保留真的嗎 看完委員沒有啦所以我剛說108 109就保留嘛看大家意思沒有 我們要尊重每一個委員發言的權利啦好不好你也不能說他們誰講的笑話反正我們就108 109保留啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
27559.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
27575.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
好那108 109我們就保留送協商第三幕 監視科學及通訊監察業務第108 109案保留送協商繼續處理第12款37項調查局的主決議第二案號第110案至114案 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
27586.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
27609.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
我先跟那個標局那邊提一個我之前有跟你們要那個網路流量分析預算的細目報告我到現在還沒有拿到你回去了解一下好不好因為我之前在質詢的時候就有跟你們要了可是我到現在還沒拿到因為我這邊有記錄那我們就繼續處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
27615.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
27643.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
好 那個第110案 主決請問一下第110案 法務部這邊機關有意見沒有意見 那我們就依照修正後的主決議通過第111案 撤案那第111案 撤案那第112案請問一下那個陳俊委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
27644.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
27673.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
好沒有的話那請問機關有意見沒有意見那沒有意見我們就依照主決意通過好那第113案請問機關有意見沒有意見好沒有的話就依照主決意通過那第114案請問機關有意見沒有意見好沒有意見的話就依照主決意通過那主決意提案案號第110案至114案第1213114召案通過第110修正通過第111撤案 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
27677.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
27682.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
討論事項第一案已經處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 提報院會院會討論前 區教育黨團協商院會討論時 由吳釗偉中線說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
27691.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
27716.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
現在進行討論事項第二案繼續審查一四年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管法務部矯正署作業基金收支部分請參閱會審表及提案記一案在哪裡好案號一 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
27720.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
27726.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
請問委員你有沒有要補充說明就預算提案作業基金預算提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
27728.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
27744.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
這邊的話因為我發現矯正機關的基金收支從107年度起就開始由盈轉虧短處情形有擴增的趨勢那麼到了114年度預計短處高達1億0896萬是近5年的新高那麼所以呢這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
27755.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
27782.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
應該要更妥善的去控制各類的成本及費用支出透過開源節流的方式可以達到積極改善短處的目標然後以維護基金的財務健全所以在這裡提案凍結矯正機關作業基金稅出一千萬然後提出專案報告後才可以動之好 請問就這個部分各位委員有沒有其他意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
27790.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
27809.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
這個部分是不是改組決議沒有翁委員有考慮嗎您這個部分因為這個是在第64頁矯正機關的單位預算64頁等一下我們看一下64頁矯正機關在這那是作業基金我看一下在這 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
27819.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
27835.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
部署單位預算的64頁主席我確認一下現在我們目前在處理的是他的一個作業基金那在他的64頁當中這總金額是原列數是12億2442萬1000元那翁委員希望凍結1000萬頁碼是64頁嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
27851.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
27870.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
是64頁嗎 為什麼我們看到金額不是這個呢我現在確定一下 這個是矯正機關作業基金附屬單位預算 沒錯吧矯正機關作業基金預算嘛單位預算 對不起 那個是單位預算64頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
27878.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
27901.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
也不是呢,是不是我們可以請...帶我們查明這個預算書的內容在這裡,在這裡是什麼?喔,這...一樣啊作業基金在這...剛剛拿出來,這本啊就這本啊,一樣嘛戶...戶屬單位預算嘛那麼64頁嘛64頁上面的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
27911.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
27930.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
12億多 對不起 上面我們看不到是12億請問12億的部分最底下的是不是 最底下的與收支逾促預計表業務成本與費用及業務外費用合計12億6154萬4千元這第13頁合計在這裡能不能請 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
27941.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
27957.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
因為剛剛田委員說明了齁那麼因為這是作業基金啊那剛剛矯正署是不是就如果如剛剛所說的凍結一千萬有什麼影響請矯正署來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
27960.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
27973.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
跟委員報告我們在這個作業基金因為有修法在109年的7月15號修法以後雙人的勞作金提撥比例是由37.5%提高到60% |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
27977.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
28001.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
所以在114年度預算編列是4億7265萬3千元較舊法的時候增加1億7724萬元那另外就是非屬作業產生的改善生活設施跟照護事項這些政策性的支出有持續擴增所以114年度預算編列3億 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
28006.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
28032.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
402萬為近5年來的最高那如果排除上開飛鼠座位產生的政策性支出的話基金營業成果還是有剩餘的114年度業務剩餘預計是3億723萬7千元那所以本部矯正署已經就收入提升跟成本控管積極來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
28033.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
28060.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
而且基金近10年度整體業務收入是呈現穩定成長的趨勢以上敬請人以動解改題書面報告 謝謝好 請問各位委員還有沒有其他意見因為機關代表的意見跟提案委員的意見是不一致的那麼這裡還是不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
28061.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
28084.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
了解所謂的為什麼那麼機關代表認為如果是不凍結會有所影響這裡還是不清楚啊因為你們是希望以主決議那我們這也沒看到你們是你的主決議啊因為就目前提案委員所說的是認為說短處有去有擴增的趨勢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
28085.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
28099.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
那你們剛剛的報告是說未來預計114年預計短處的金額這個是一個預估但是如果實際上你們按照你們的算法是並沒有的那到底這關聯性是如何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
28105.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
28132.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
如果這一千萬遭受凍結的話會影響到作業營運收入各項照護事項的推動比如說我們有一些燃油還有一些我們的生活醫療生活設施機器設備的折舊另外就是說清涵疾病醫療還有受刑免職女救急經費等等都會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
28135.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
28147.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
這個預算書裡面都沒有表達這些內容啊你們的確送來的資料太過簡略以至於我們委員提案委員認為說你有短處那麼要求要凍結事實上請問這個事情有沒有去溝通啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
28149.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
28169.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
那有溝通應該溝通上有提供必要的資料那我們除了提案委員有溝通上提供給提案委員的資料我們如果看了也可以去做理解跟判斷目前我們手上就預算書預算書上64頁下面最下面一整行就是12億多然後呢我們翻查前面的內容也看不到您剛剛所說的內容那我們要如何進行審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
28176.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
28194.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
那是不是也可以給我們看一下到底是在哪裡市長要表示意見是主席還有各位委員因為這個我是簽任這個小中作業基金的這個主管負責人那在這邊補充報告因為剛才小中署署長他所說的可能太過這個文嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
28196.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
28211.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
我簡單簡化他的邏輯跟櫃員報告就是說事實上假設作業基金以作業基金的本質來講事實上我們如果以營業作業產生的收入跟支出事實上我們是有剩餘的 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
28212.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
28235.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
但是我們主要是因為兩個原因所以造成短處第一個是109年的建議行刑法規定這個修法之後規定我們的勞作金的提撥比例提升了很多所以從那一年開始每年我們所編列的要支出的收容的勞作金要提撥的部分就很高另外一個部分就是有一些所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
28238.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
28251.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
政策性的支出也就是我們其實是挪移因為國家財政是相當困難所以我們要監索很多的這一些照顧這個說我們改善生活設施跟照顧的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
28252.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
28267.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
必須要優先由這個作業基金裡面來做支出所以所謂的政策性支出就是我們其實是挪用了這個作業基金所賺來的錢累積起來的我們先行來使用那公務預算我們也不敢去要求說這個主計總數再給我們多撥補回 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
28270.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
28296.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
所以我們是一直在用這樣的方式在營運我們的作業基金所以作業基金我們很努力要去賺錢所以剛剛這個署長也有提到近十年來其實我們的這個作業的營運這個業務的收入是有穩定在成長的當然後續我們會更加的努力所以說懇請各位委員因為我們找這種作業基金其實營運相當的不容易如果可以凍結這麼多錢的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
28297.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
28321.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
可能在很多的業務特別是所謂的政策性支出上面我們在至少在前面的我們都會有所影響或delay所以拜託這個可以免於動解讓我們會持續盡盡努力以上報告好 總召委好 謝謝因為一般在作業基金它本身它的特性跟公務預算是不一樣的所以我們在審議的邏輯會有所差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
28322.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
28346.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
那剛剛機關代表有趕快來做提示我們看到預算書的第六到第七頁這裡面提到了你們的基金數額是38億餘元可用資金是32億餘元那剛剛次長所提到的這個作業基金本身就是一個營業型的會有營收收入也要支出那聽起來目前的收入面部分營業收入面部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
28346.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
28362.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
是有逐步成長但是呢比較大的是勞作金的支出是因為我們政府法令的修改要給予這個受刑人他支付他的勞作金是提高的所以造成你們在支出上的增加的幅度比較高大概是聽起來這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
28363.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
28391.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
那另外呢剛剛署長所提到的您提到的這些錢凍結了之後會有什麼影響你提到無非是收容人的技能訓練經費收容人的醫療生活設施及技訓設備專案經費以及受刑人補助他的子女就學經費補貼收容人侵含疾病的醫療費收容人的沐浴及吹掌燃料費還有新入監收容人的基本生活費這裡面算一算林林總統看起來也大概超過3億多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
28392.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
28409.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
那我的一個疑問是說既然你們的作業基金的規模是38億可用資金32億那剛剛經過次長說明了因為政府修改法令提高的勞作金造成我們這個作業基金在支出上的大幅的提高但是事實上我們昨年的作業成收入的成長是穩定成長只是這個過程當中所造成的短處在帳面上是短處的 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
28414.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
28436.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
那如果予以凍結這1000萬會造成你們調度上的問題是這樣子嗎我幾乎是要用很短的時間去理解你們這個作業基金的問題如果是這樣子的話我真的還是要跟提案委員做一個建議啦我不知道是不是這樣的解讀啦因為作業基金的本身它是輿出是累積的它跟我們公務預算的支出不太一樣因為公務預算呢你給它多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
28437.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
28458.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
花掉就花掉了也沒有了那麼保留的就繳回國庫大概就是這樣子但是作業基金它本身是在一個大水庫裡面去循環那麼處理的方式是覺得只是單純的說希望免於凍結這個我們在委員會審查的時候比較難具體的掌握那你們希望怎麼樣能夠讓這個作業基金可以因應著政府提高勞作金之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
28459.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
28474.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
在你們有效的持續的提高營業收入的情況之下維持穩定的運作這一點的解決方案事實上要提供給委員會委員來參考那當然如果我們對於提案委員覺得有自然難行的部分你們有其他的替代方案嗎是不是一併說明好 那翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
28478.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
28499.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
其實剛聽了次長說明之後我就更能夠了解這個為什麼看起來這個勞作就是現在講的這個矯正作業基金會出現逐年短促的情況那重要就是說你們有一些應該是政策性要用公務預算去補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
28499.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
28516.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
應該是要去支出的比如說改善收容人的生活設施及照護事項等這些費用你本來應該是要公務預算去編的但是你現在不用公務預算去編去支出這些費用反過來又是去用作業基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
28517.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
28542.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
是不是這樣的意思 請問有一部分是這樣 但不是全部好 有一部分是這樣嘛對 那所以就是這一部分其實也就造成了作業基金它雖然說看起來每年它是有賺錢有累積盈餘但是因為它支出的項目很多包含它本來不應該是要用作業基金的費用去支出的項目那變得都要由作業基金去支出了所以才造成它有短促的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
28543.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
28567.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
跟委員報告這個其實是國家財政支出的一個選擇也就是說並不是說不能用作業基金來支應因為作業基金畢竟它就是一個大水庫那當作業基金它營運當然我們是希望說它能夠一直賺錢累積或是這個循環的概念但是當它有一定的餘額的時候在一段時間內確實也可以去挪用這個基金的錢來支應緊急的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
28567.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
28590.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
那但是因為要跟這個行政院來爭取法務部整體的預算要去多邊提高這些經費也並非容易所以每年我們在跟主席總統在協商的時候其實他也會希望說我們的作業基金能夠負擔一部分這一些政策性的支出所以是這樣子來的那這並不能夠說他不應該用或說怎麼樣這其實是國家整體的財政的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
28591.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
28619.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
那我們也會盡力的繼續後續每年我們都會去跟這個族裔總署來協商看這個基金我們當然不可能讓這個基金破產所以說在每一年我們都會重新去解釋這個事情假設需要公務預算來撥補或調整我們也會跟族裔總署來做爭取但是今年的這個狀況其實跟過去109年之後修法其實並沒有太大的差別那另外一部分就是柯委員所指出的我們還是需要努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
28620.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
28626.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
來做營收的增加這個部分我想我們的矯正機關都會努力來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
28630.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
28649.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
因為既然它是屬於政策性的支出也就是說當時在訂立這個政策的時候就應該考慮到就是說它的經費來源從哪裡去支出嘛那也就是原來應該預計譬如說法務部訂立這樣的政策它可能會要從公務預算去撥補可是現在就是沒有實際上沒有撥補那到底是當時政策訂立的錯誤還是說是主計總處 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
28653.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
28680.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
在這件事情上面他們沒有去支持作業基金一定有作業基金它的使用管理辦法那不應該要透過作業基金去支應的那你卻是要用作業基金去支應過然剛剛次長講這是一個大水凸概念反正他也沒有說哪些項目不能用但是我認為說這樣子的一個做法它確實會造成大家會認為說整個作業基金是虧損的 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
28685.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
28688.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
對好那接下來我要講就是說基本上只是凍結一千萬我們希望就是說你要提出一個專案報告制度上面然後這個未來怎麼會改善這樣的一個狀況因為我們這次審查預算也發現很多的基金出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
28701.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
28729.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
本來不應該透過基金這個的這個經費去支出的就都變成是由基金去支像就業安定基金就是不是就是一個例子那現在你矯正機關作業基金我覺得也類似就我剛聽起來的情況是如此那麼這個整個來說我只有動一千萬我也沒有給你減劣對不對然後你要提出專案報告均同意後才可以動之這應該不會影響到你們作業那中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
28730.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
28753.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
好 謝謝剛剛列席機關代表黃次長的說明啦其實 陳儒剛剛所說的這是一個政府的財政選擇因為作業基金它事實上是透過有一點營業的方式取得收入扣除支出所餘處所留下來的累積那麼這個講個簡單的說法就像台灣電力公司一樣當我們電價被動漲那或者說還漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
28758.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
28772.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
或者說漲幅不能完全反映各用電戶的成本的時候比如民生用電比較是基於優惠的立場那這樣的他的作業基金就會產生不足不足的時候可能就要用政府的預算來撥補那這個效果就是財政選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
28775.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
28804.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
因為政府的預算編列是來自全體納稅人繳的稅金但是台電的漁畜產生的是用電戶他們實際被收的電費跟他們所支應的成本不相對稱的關係那因此呢今天換過來角度看相反我們目前 目前繳證署的作業基金是政府沒有用公務預算去編列的部分由作業基金來支應等於是拿這些作業基金勞作人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
28805.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
28824.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
去營收的收入來支應或許用公務預算或許用作業基金來支應那這是一個選擇那某個角度來講有點像是用作業基金來補我們政府編列預算相對應的不足啦剛好跟台電的情況是相反的 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
28825.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
28848.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
那我是覺得呢這裡面沒有絕對的對或錯啦也就是說今天如果主張剛剛所列的那些四項補貼補助津貼那麼都要編列公務預算那等於我們國家要從我們納稅人收來的這些公務預算多撥一些給法務部去支應矯正署那矯正署他目前不是用這些預算他把這個部分用作業基因來支應那等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
28849.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
28864.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
這些作業基金付出的勞作力的這些受刑人他們所透過付出所營收來的這些收入他用來支應全體不管有沒有參加勞作的受刑人他們的生活設施的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
28865.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
28894.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
所以我是覺得這個觀念上就是看大家要不要做接受啦那我個人是覺得本身是覺得說如果繳證署聽起來我們站在省公務預算幫國家的納稅人把關的情況之下等於是有一點點的去占一點點受刑人參加勞作的受刑人的便宜用他們勞作上來的收入去補貼全體受刑人生活設備的改善而不是用政府的公務預算去支應差別就在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
28895.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
28911.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
那我是覺得呢 這裡也不是所謂的凍結一簽或者提書面報告使得動之的問題我覺得如果真的要指出他什麼問題就是一個主決的方式要求矯正署未來要求法務部如果委員認為應該要由公務預算致應那就寫個報告出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
28915.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
28933.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
那如果認為這個很難從政府預算去爭取公務預算支出要用作業基金來支出用這個部分參與勞作的受刑人的賺取的收入來照顧全體的受刑人那麼也顯明白講清楚那我是覺得比較傾向提出一個主決議供未來委員會審查的時候參考那在這也誠懇的對提案委員表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
28938.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
28963.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
這個案子不是透過凍結的預算來解凍有意義的啦這個是整個基金的使用的用途到底要採取一個怎麼樣的選擇的問題啦那以上建議就看翁委員的那我們還是尊重翁委員法務部主管矯正機關作業基金第一案保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
28968.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
28972.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
討論事項第二案已經處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 提報議員會議員會討論前續交由黨團協商議員會討論時由吳釗偉中線說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
28983.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
29006.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
討論事項第三案 現在進行討論事項第三案 繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分 關於法務部主管毒品房子基金收支部分 請參閱會審表及提案 暨二案案號一 基金用途 翁曉琳委員請問有要補充什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
29011.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
29023.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
其實33頁的嘛我應該是兩個案 我有沒有一個已經改組決議我現在這邊已經看不太清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
29039.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
29053.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
好 那我針對這個毒品防治基金因為它從108年度成立到現在五年了然後相關副省作業的辦理情形也不是很理想那麼有些業務計劃並沒有遵守實際上的這個結案的情形那麼同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
29057.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
29077.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
就是對整個的這個研究補助計畫作業相關流程還有沒有依現實辦理的原因等等其實都有待說明基於提升基金運用的效率所以我在這邊提出這個凍結毒品防治基金的稅出預算一千萬提出專案報告之後才可以凍結然後那第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
29087.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
29109.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
我就一併講就兩個案子請問周委第一案跟第二案那我們就是主案來審查那就先第一案我剛剛已經講完了好那請問第一案的部分各位委員有沒有補充好那機關這邊有什麼意見我請保護司來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
29114.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
29133.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
主席各位委員 因為有關獨房基金的管理委員會幕僚單位是在華府的保護室針對提案委員的兩個主要的意見第一個是在前端副省作業的辦理未經理想第二是在後端結案的時候並沒有確實去遵守結案的期限規範我這邊做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
29135.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
29160.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
那獨房基金最主要是按照中央政府各部會他在辦理毒品防治的相關業務在公務預算編列不足或者是不及編列的情況之下那由獨房基金來制定所以雖然他是編在華務部的下面但是事實上他是由華務部、衛福部、教育部、內政部跟其他的一些企圖的一個機關共同來編列預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
29162.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
29178.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
那也因為各個那個組織的各部會他的相提的相關計劃事實上他在補助各直轄市縣政府或者民團等等的一個單位因此他們提出來的一個預算每年大概都會高達十幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
29179.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
29184.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
所以我們在幕僚單位作業的時候一定要先經過出核然後經過獨房基金管理委員會再來做一個審核最後覺得必須刪減到剩下我們政府預算可以容納的範圍內再去修正他們所提的相關的一些計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
29197.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
29216.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
那因此在整個審核的過程當中跟互審的過程當中就會比較曠日會時所以以前到現在我們也一直在改善因此呢我們也督促了中央各部會在提出相關計劃的時候應該要盡快提到管理委員會來做一個審核那只要他一提出來我們也會加開臨時會來做審核那這個是第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
29220.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
29236.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
第二個有關在結案的部分最主要都是在單據的核銷跟資料的成果的一個呈報就像剛才跟委員跟主席報告的一樣它沿著上因為它是補助到地方職小市縣政府甚至很多民團的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
29236.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
29239.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
因此他們在單季的核銷上面難免會有錯落那我們要求他補正之後他們再轉轉到中央各部位再轉到我們這邊幕僚單位來之後呢那時間真的確實是會誠如委員所提案講的不盡理想的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
29251.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
29277.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
就這一部分我們已經也製作了一個核銷指引請各部會一定要去加強督促所有提出計畫的相關部會跟提出申請補助的所有地方直轄市縣政府跟民團能夠按照期限來辦理核銷所以委員您的提案部分我們一定會檢討改進但是也建議能不能不要凍結改成主決議提出並報告 以上說明好 莊召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
29282.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
29305.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
我想因為這個案子說到毒飲犯更生保護的部分我們這邊看到一個很重要的就是台灣更生保護會其實不是只有台灣更生保護會在從事這第一案你們這裡談的一樣就是說你們剛剛提到的是民團那麼其實我這裡兩個案一併講因為剛剛提案也是兩個案一併講 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
29311.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
29325.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
現在是做我們的動結1000萬那麼對於毒品防治基金補助作業要點第12點的規定這個部分好那我說明一下其實那麼毒品犯更生人 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
29326.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
29352.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
出監後他們所受到的這些輔導並不是每個更生人都願意接受或參與到民間團體的協助那事實上在我們政府不可能透過政府的編制內人力來執行這些更生人的復歸社會那其實常中有的需要長期的醫療資源投入的也所在多有那我舉例來講在我所處的屏東有一個叫牧恩之家 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
29353.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
29367.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
這個穆文哲家本身他就是透過牧師結合宗教信仰讓適合的更生人願意到他們那裡去接受這個讀引的戒斷其實讀引的戒斷其實這些讀引更生人在今服刑期間都已經戒斷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
29368.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
29386.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
重要的是要復歸社會 怎麼樣讓他們不要被過去的人脈系統就是這些壞朋友啦 在找上他那有些 其實大部分的毒品更生人都被原生家庭所斷絕 我說很多因為呢 毒品犯他更生人在在先服刑期間我們遇到很多狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
29387.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
29405.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
他們就是被原生家庭因為很多借錢、犯偷竊造成原生家庭很大的困擾因此很多更生人出監控他幾乎沒有辦法跟原來的原生家庭做連結那這個時候很容易就又陷入了原來他那個毒癮犯的一個循環系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
29406.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
29425.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
那麼我們覺得呢應該要重視的是說這些協助參與的民間團體他們有沒有達到協助這些更生人復歸社會那麼這種情況之下如果只是因為這些作業要點的規定未能落實那我們覺得呢當然主管機關還是要繼續的加以輔導但是以凍結預算的方式那我們會很擔心現在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
29431.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
29443.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
這些接受政府基金支持的這些民間團體他們目前推動更生保護的情況會不會受到耽誤我還是要強調一下更生保護在我們毒品犯的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
29445.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
29466.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
其實絕大部分我知道的民間團體沒有人要去碰啦真的獨隱患的部分問題很大所以能夠投入的民間團體真的是少之又少我所接觸到的大部分都是有宗教情懷不管他是屬於傳統的民間信仰的還是屬於像我剛剛所說的基督教系統的 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
29467.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
29487.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
他們呢 天主教系統的 他們都是要有這樣的一個奉獻的精神才願意協助社會來照顧這些毒癮犯的更生人那這種情況之下 如果我們對於他們在於基金補助作業要點上未能符合規定 那來苛求那麼造成他們在接受補助上的事成一語言蕩 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
29487.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
29503.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
甚至要自掏腰包我覺得應該不是我們審議基金預算的本意而我們建議是希望說能夠針對問題由租款機關拿出解決之道是不是我們的規定補助作為要點其實太過嚴格了因為我們政府訂的都是房幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
29504.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
29522.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
都是防弊但是你要知道會投入毒品犯的根深保護的社團它根本就是公益社團我當然不是說所有的公益社團不會有弊端不會有從中謀利的情況還是會有饒恕死但是絕大部分會做出的都是持足的 是有奉獻感的社團 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
29522.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
29542.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
那你們苛責這些牧師 苛責這些住持他們要去熟悉我們政府的這個補助做要點要能夠備其單據有些時候善心人士的善款往往就是無名氏錢放了就走那這個時候物資也是這樣如此所以他們本身在受理這些社會各界的 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
29543.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
29559.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
物資捐助以及來自政府的基金補助的時候他們可能並沒有很清楚的去區分來自民間的善款基於彼此的信任他們是不需要你單據或者說呢他只要一個愛心你就可以對外公開徵信但是對於政府補助的基金他事實上要求要什麼要憑證要按其提報那麼要有一個實務的一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
29564.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
29569.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
那這些都是我們政府想當然爾我覺得我們在審議這些預算的時候不能想當然爾認為這些社會團體他們都像我們考試及格的公務同仁一樣在機關裡面有財主機關有主計人員的協助輔導能夠能完整的備齊這些核銷的單據來跟補助單位來過請款我是覺得在這裡我還是要再度呼籲對於毒品更生人協助的這些公益社團我們應該予以更大的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
29593.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
29608.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
而不是在這些程序上予以刁難那如果真的有為了防止弊端我們必須要善盡若死的也希望是用輔導的方式來出發而不是以凍結或者以懲罰的方式來為之這是以上的建議那看這樣子歐委員這個部分是不是就還是堅持這部分要凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
29619.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
29629.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
毒品防治基金總共有6億8千多萬那我現在是凍結1000萬那其目的基本上也是希望讓這個毒品防治基金的補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
29630.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
29656.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
這個相關的計劃未來能夠實施的更有成效而且他還是由這個基金去支出的相關的補助經費那麼不管今天是民間團體或是任何一個機關如果說他們拿了這個錢按計劃該什麼時候提報該什麼時候要核銷這個都是應該要按照那個結案的時間的相關的規定去做的不能說 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
29656.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
29678.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
因為覺得說我們現在的這個補助作業程序很麻煩那麼因此該核銷的就不核銷然後該結案的不結案有些是已經拖了非常久了但這個也是應該這個如果說裡面的作業程序是有問題就是不便民然後造成這個相關的民間團體很多麻煩的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
29679.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].end |
29695.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].text |
那也應該要去檢討這個作業要點那我認為說其實動一千萬然後提出專案報告之後然後看怎麼樣去檢討這個制度然後再來動之一千萬可以啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].start |
29698.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].end |
29727.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].text |
因為毒品防治基金這個沒有錯但是現在就是看起來這個毒品防治成果也不好嘛再販率也很高啊稀土人口不斷增加如果大家想法差不多就保留好了就保留啦不然大家各說各話好那案號第一案部分我們就同樣的是拿到我們這個防治基金的錢耶能不能讓我讓我說明一下可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].start |
29728.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].end |
29751.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].text |
我想翁委員的一個提醒我們一定會悉心受教啦那剛剛您提到了有關整個核銷的問題其實剛我前面已經做過報告說明我們在檢討改進所以已經有訂定了一個製作核銷的指引了請各部位一定要督促那受補助的一個地方指甲市縣政府跟民團公益民團能夠切實徵手啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].start |
29752.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].end |
29765.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].text |
那委員您的一個那個用意我們很清楚所以我們是不是能建議也不要動一千就動五百然後改成第二案的時候我們再一併做處理可以嗎好吧那就動五百接受那個市長建議謝謝委員這有共識了嗎書面對動五百改題書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].start |
29776.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].end |
29781.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].text |
我沒有看過你們的書面報告寫的怎麼樣如果又是寫的哩哩辣啦這個不會那我覺得還是要看嘛這個指引的這部分我們已經有這些的我們現在毒品的那部分的防治的部分我們會再跟委員來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].start |
29798.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].end |
29804.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].text |
做一個一個一個報告在書面報告我們會充實這邊委員關心的一個內容那是不是可以動500改書面這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].start |
29807.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].end |
29833.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].text |
那這次我就先提亮司長這邊就動500然後改書面報告但是我會認真看這個書面報告因為我還有下一年我看我說不定還是會繼續待在市委會就算我不在市委會我還是會盯著你們的報告盯著你們的預算謝謝委員提亮翁委員這樣就是書面的部分你們要經過同意後才解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].start |
29835.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].end |
29861.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].text |
那就不經同意了嘛就不用要求經過同意嘛對反正我還有三年可以解釋好那第一案的部分大家如果說有共識的話那我們就改為凍結五百萬元那經過書面報告後那才予以解凍那案號第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].start |
29862.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].end |
29890.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].text |
也是基金用途那這部分翁委員還要補充嗎其實這個地方也是就他們的計畫並沒有寫得很清楚啦就是相關的這個毒品防治基金這個所謂協助復歸社會及預防再犯是他的主要輔助方向可是他在預算書當中呢卻沒有很清楚的明定關鍵的指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].start |
29891.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].end |
29896.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].text |
對所以我在這裡就提出這個凍結500萬然後提出專案報告不過這邊的話是不是乾脆也是凍結500萬提出書面報告好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].start |
29905.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].end |
29931.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].text |
是病案吧這是病案嗎我先接一下那個恩惠媛其實我覺得我個人是我是認同您說的衡量指標這個事情因為就我所知道剛剛本來我以為在談這案就是更生保護會他們目前接受的毒品更生人他們目前出監的再犯率這個的確要追蹤那如果因為我剛也表述過了就我所知啊不是每個毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].start |
29932.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].end |
29943.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].text |
出監後更生人的處遇他都會願意跟台灣更生保護會去合作那如果說是我們更生保護會他處遇上 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].start |
29943.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].end |
29969.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].text |
能夠獲至再販率較低的成效那反而我們應該去支持的但是如果我們有一個清楚的指標可以告訴我們這個更生保護會接受他服務的更生人他以後一年後的再販率有明顯的比別人低那我們為什麼要去支持這個就要打個問號所以我是覺得應該要有一個績效指標讓我們在每一年預算審查的時候給予他們一個目標上管理的一個鞭策 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].start |
29969.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].end |
29990.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].text |
那至於說呢 另外的其他的績效指標呢 舉例來講這些保護性的社工 這些個案管理師 這些的人力其實在我們地方政府 過去我所服務的情況之下這些的個案人數跟案件比呢 也是我們一個指標管理的因為一個個案管理師 他不能承接太多的 大量的個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].start |
29991.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].end |
30006.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].text |
量一多他就沒辦法照顧得周全所以如果未來我們在預算上予以支持那我們也希望說未來呢更生保護會他的個案管理師也要能訂出逐年的能夠跟上其他的這樣的個案管理的一個配比 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].start |
30007.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].end |
30023.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].text |
不要負荷過度那這才是我們要的目的我相信呢這些基金的預算的支出都是政府呢還有我們社會希望能夠降低毒飲人口的一個很重要的目標所以我是覺得呢如果兩個方式嘛一個就是如果能夠提出一個書面報告把剛剛在文委員提案人他所要求的這些績效指標能夠訂定一個齊成的目標讓大家可以來依循我覺得這很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].start |
30033.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].end |
30040.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].text |
那不然的話呢 如果要用凍結提書面報告 比較有鞭策力那我建議是併同上岸 凍500 那提書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].start |
30044.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].end |
30064.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].text |
因為這是兩個不同的案子那我現在提的這個案子這個是針對矯正關戶社區預防毒品防治計劃這個計劃就憋了兩億八千多萬我只動五百萬然後已經也妥協到你們提出一個書面報告就分案並列了分案好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].start |
30066.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].end |
30083.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].text |
主席能不能容我說明一下主席提案的委員我想委員在這一個提案部分有兩個部分關注第一個就是說大概在我們華埠手邊的矯正關戶社區預防毒品防護計畫當中總共編了兩億 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].start |
30091.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].end |
30098.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].text |
88169000元那其中有關強化毒品化更生保護及社區處理支援計劃裡面就編了142193000元而且比較看起來跟113年來相較多了82679000元你認為這個部分就佔了一半這邊最主要說明一下就剛才大概那趙委 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].start |
30116.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].end |
30130.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].text |
我們在毒品的防治部分那其中在113年總共編了五千多萬是補助台灣更生保護會在做毒品更生人的一個輔導其中是補助了67名的個案管理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].start |
30131.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].end |
30152.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].text |
那因為這樣個案的管理師目前他們的一個業務量大概是一個人跟一個案件量是1比130跟各地方縣市直轄市縣政府的獨房中心他們的一個個案管理師的案件量比是1比37大概這樣加起來大概三倍多的工作量 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].start |
30153.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].end |
30175.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].text |
第二個就是說這些毒品的更生人就初間的受刑人或者是經過緩起訴或者是說緩刑的這些毒品的更生包括成年跟兒少的部分進入到我們台根堡來接受輔導那剛才委員特別關注到他的成效我們統計了去年113年度整個所有的再換率只有16.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[980].start |
30178.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].end |
30206.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].text |
跟全國各所有家種的部分的一個成年的醫藥及毒品的再換率百分之44.3那真的是差非常的多那這樣的一個44.3我們訂了一個再換值推進計畫希望從111年的8月一直到103年底只要能夠降到百分之1.5就每年降百分之0.6就算打標了所以看起來台根堡他本身對於這些毒品更生產輔導真的是績效卓著那也因為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].start |
30207.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].end |
30236.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].text |
在新世代反毒策略行動綱領的第三期的計畫當中又加重了台根堡的責任因此我們必須在明年度今年度就114年的部分透過我們毒王基金這一項強化毒品患更生保護及涉及處理資源的部分要準備補助台根堡那161名的個案管理師最主要是在這個錢上面那這樣子的一個情況下來那我們禁用到161個人他們的案件量比大概就1比 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].start |
30238.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].end |
30262.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].text |
50那所以這樣的一個情形我覺得這個計劃本身應該是可以達到他應有效第二個大概委員關注的有關關鍵績效指標這個部分也是很多我們獨民那管理基金會很多的委員以及獨網匯報委員一直在關注所以在113年我們已經召開過很多次的會議召集了有提案的相關有提案補助的相關部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].start |
30262.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].end |
30289.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].text |
共同訂定了一個關鍵績效指標跟成效評估的相關準則現在已經擬定完成了準備在今年度在提報到行政通過之後就要即時實施所以有關這個個案的部分的一個指計劃的一個金額以及後端的一個關鍵績效指標我想我們華為部都已經做了一個充足的一個處理所以這個部分建請委員看看能不能改為主決議或者是併前案的部分去凍結500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].start |
30294.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].end |
30296.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].text |
其實我這裡也沒有提出太嚴苛的條件雖然說我這裡凍結500萬後來也妥協說你們可以提出一個書面報告其實司長您剛剛都講得很好那為什麼不在預算書上面列清楚呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].start |
30316.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].end |
30339.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].text |
妳之後的報告或是在官網上面妳也可以寫就把這個剛剛講的妳們做的績效做個清楚的報告嘛因為我現在這裡意思就是說動就是動啦然後妳們書面報告什麼時候做出來然後同時公開那我們這裡就解凍我也沒有說要經過經同意但是我必須要看到妳們這裡的書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].start |
30340.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].end |
30364.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].text |
這次這麼好的一個績效應該讓大家知道嘛然後你們觀念指標你們預計114年度要達成什麼樣的目標然後降低這個什麼再販率僅程類似這樣的話你要把它寫出來好不好好那是不是我們同意就併前岸動500萬提書跟報告分開啦分開啦就兩岸就兩岸了就這樣了啦好那我們同意啦同意同意同意對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].start |
30368.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].end |
30376.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].text |
對 我也沒有說是給你們對 不過還是要壓個時間你不要給我到年底才送的三個月內吧 好不好就三個月內三個月內 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].start |
30381.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].end |
30395.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].text |
法務部主管毒品防治基金基金用途凍結500萬基金用途向下矯正公戶社區預防毒品防治計畫凍結500萬元並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後 使得凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].start |
30404.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].end |
30421.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].text |
在前面的那一案我好像沒有立下說要幾個月內要交書面包同樣也是三個月在基金用途的第一案討論事項第三案已經處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時有無召集委員中心的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].start |
30429.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].end |
30445.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].text |
現在進行討論事項第四案繼續審查法務部韓誦財團法人台灣更生保護會財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會一四年度預算書案因為沒有委員提案均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].start |
30450.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].end |
30459.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].text |
討論事項第四案審查完畢做以下宣告本案審查完畢拟據審查報告提請院會公決院會討論前不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由吳釗己委員中線說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].start |
30472.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].end |
30496.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].text |
有關本次議程討論事項通過修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過的決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理本次會議議程所列事項均已處理完畢會議進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].start |
30501.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].end |
30501.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].text |
瘋了 |