| IVOD_ID |
164594 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164594 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T11:51:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T12:05:44+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da4304b9378948bf74e29853ba2d60c06d2d78011594ec57579b03abd11ba7a7725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:51:45 - 12:05:44 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 我請主席長好 請陳主席長委員好主席長我們前年112年國庫統計那麼在台股多頭助攻之下我們平均每戶家庭資產1889萬1889萬創 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
43.139 |
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數十年來新高啦那這當然是好事不過我覺得這些數字背後還是有一些問題啦就是說如果你看一下我們財富分配表這個財富分配也是我們主計處30年前民國80年你們先公布一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.738 |
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那麼拿來跟30年後就是最新的這一次是在你們在4年前公布的那麼如果我們把財富五等分來分每20%這樣子來做一個區塊來分那麼這個財富的差距最前段的 |
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89.712 |
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20%跟最後段的20%相比30年前民國80年的時候是16.8倍最有錢的20%是最貧窮的20%的16.8倍竟然經過30年大家全國上下舉國的奮鬥之後結論竟然是高達66.9倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.188 |
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也就是說富者越富 貧者越貧那更可怕的是你如果把前20%財富佔比那本來啊30年前民國80年的時候是大概將近50% 49.71%在最新的這一次竟然 |
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146.027 |
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155.271 |
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前20%的富有民眾竟然佔比是高達62.68有6成多的財富集中在前20%的民眾當中你覺得這樣對嗎那更可怕更可怕的還什麼後段最後20%的財富 |
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本來還僅僅只有2.95 30年前至少還有佔將近3%30年後竟然佔不到1%只有0.94那所得更不用講所得更不用講前20%所得有1306萬 |
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232.507 |
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要升到五千一百三十三萬這很好喔我們大家不忌妒他們但是後百分之二十的家庭財富竟然是衰退三十年前七十八萬三十年後的今天七十七萬看起來表面跌了一萬但是主席長你如果把幣值 |
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251.751 |
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跟這30年來的通貨膨脹相比而言現在如果家庭財富77萬元一個家庭那可以說是赤貧那可以說是一窮二白不是嗎所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
254.622 |
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282.37 |
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我為什麼提到這個事情我們上個禮拜在這邊質詢的時候我在講說我們主計數的數字一定要很詳實為什麼因為越詳實越能找出問題那我們用國家的稅制來做個平衡不是這樣嗎所以我上禮拜說我們如果實質調查的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
283.476 |
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293.243 |
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我認為我們台灣貧窮黑素的人口有高達兩百萬之多啦當時我們有做這樣的切磋那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
294.537 |
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321.565 |
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我們當然政府必須去宣傳國家的好這是應當的每個國家都一樣歐美日大家都一樣都講股票很好股票是經濟的櫥窗沒有錯我們這些年股票確實是好但是並不是2300萬台灣人每個人都在買賣股票不是啊而且買賣股票的人也不一定每個人都賺不是嗎那 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
324.656 |
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339.632 |
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能力有高低運氣有好壞所以每個人機運不同那可能人家能力強的運氣好的他去富有這個沒有人會去忌妒問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
342.134 |
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359.818 |
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在我們的稅制在我們現行的制度下我們已經很嚴重造成貧富不均所以我認為稅制的改革那第一步應該從主計處給的數字主計處給的數字如果給的數字不是在那麼詳實的時候那麼他們在計稅的稅制的調整下他們會麻木不仁所以時間暫停我請那個複稅署 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
373.266 |
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387.899 |
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我們時間暫停一下 今天署長沒有來嗎請李副署長 副署長喔是負責應付也來應付就對了你請就位那個 委員好署長在署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
401.053 |
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427.64 |
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這個我跟他嚴厲的要求對每一項我們國內各項數字的統計一定要詳實那這些數字都有到你們負稅署的手上那麼我們可以很清楚的看到我們數十年來綜合所得稅薪資所得佔的稅比將近是最高的佔了21.6之高 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
429.983 |
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458.715 |
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高過營業稅高過資產稅高過政交稅高過關稅也高過貨物稅也就是我們來自壽星階層我們辛苦的工作血汗錢那大家都盡了國民應盡的義務都給到這麼高但是這上面針對薪資的部分薪資的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
460.599 |
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467.626 |
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這麼多年來調整慢如牛布了所以十幾年前大概12年前吧那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
469.404 |
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495.862 |
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櫃鼠有跟經濟部有聯合當時有說針對這個中小企業發展條例來修法因為也就是說我們希望能夠加薪減稅那當時好不容易修了增加了一些條款減去了一些排除條款之後員工加薪租稅的優惠有達成但是你們修好的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
496.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
512.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
也只有實質也只有兩年只有這兩年有動用到這個條例讓企業去加薪減稅那加薪的人口多少有一年105年2008人隔一年1730人然後加薪總薪師 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
522.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
543.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
總加多少總加六千萬六千萬而已那當然你們也給企業家中小企業家這六千萬的給了一千七百萬的租稅減免這是很好也就是說啊這個修法還不夠徹底績效不彰啦績效不彰好啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
550.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
573.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我們立院我們一再敦促之下你們去年七月也修法然後你們刪除了失業率這個門檻那也把這個營運所的減除率由138提高到175%我現在要問你的就是說好 修這樣很好這去年七月修的但到現在一年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
575.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
591.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在十月底請問你這個修法以後到現在為止有沒有去檢討它的成效如何不要再像十年前那個一樣好不容易大陣仗修了結果十幾年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
594.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
614.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就只有兩年有被中小企業運用到可見你們沒有積極去推動 沒有積極去鼓勵結果兩年就我跟你講了我們高達八成的民眾是在中小企業上班內六七百萬人以上 結果兩年合計 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
615.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
643.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不到四千人因為這樣被加薪企業因為這樣被減稅金額才六千萬這不是笑話嗎所以我認為土法不足以自行你們修了以後你們要去追蹤要去推動要去鼓勵啊所以我請問你啊去年七月修了以後到現在你們去調查成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
644.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
657.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是 謝謝委員這個成效有顯現出來大概我們有3萬4千的人可以試用那費用的部分大概有減掉了我們4.5億那稅額大概就9千萬所以有去檢討了是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
659.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
679.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我檢討這點我就覺得很好很好但是金額還太少啦你不覺得嗎就我跟你講的啊中小企業壽星的民眾那高達八成之多耶所以這個部分是好的開始但是數字還太少持續push |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
679.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
697.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那是不是那個主計長你就繼續跟負稅署跟他們提點把精確的數字告知他們好不好我跟委員報告一下因為30年前的國務調查和現在110年調查的一個他調查方法是不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
698.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
714.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
110年是用大數據那將來呢我們大因為這間隔30年他有一些相關的一個數據差距很大那現在這個部分呢他不能說一個直接去比較但是我們現在是每4年我們就要發布一次整個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
715.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
737.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
財務的一個數據整個家庭財務分配的一個我們大概四年會用大數據來公布一次所以你的意思是那過去三十年前比較不精準他調查的方法不一樣不能用來比較因為調查方法不一樣比較的方式出來的但是你可以看出這個絕對值第一個我認為絕對可以比較因為這個在我們民眾之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
742.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
759.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
大家感覺上也是這樣第二點你以絕對值來看那我們就講30年後的今天現在110年這一次竟然家戶的財富最平的20%末段班的20%竟然只有77萬我請問你這是對的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
762.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
786.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因为后末段班的他的财富为什么是77万他也有可能是他的资产他很大一个资产但是他很大的负债因为为什么他买房可能要负债很多所以减去之后他是这样的一个数值来呈现表示说现在比较多数比较就是单人或者是年轻人他比较会有说他买房的负担是这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
786.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
800.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本來資產就是要算淨值這跟他借不借款無關這本來就要扣除的嘛但是他可資用家庭財富就是77萬你不覺得77萬在現今的社會物價這麼高漲幣值這麼薄弱之下你不覺得這是赤貧嗎你不覺得這是一窮二白嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
812.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
822.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我們很透過很多政府的一個補助的支出移轉式的支出有去做改善你去看我們上禮拜的質詢我才跟你說貧窮黑數那個補助那個少之又少只有佔2.1%而我們貧窮的黑數有高達16%這麼一插這麼一來一回一插200萬人之多好不好好謝謝王師傑 |