| IVOD_ID |
164570 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164570 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T11:17:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T11:27:42+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da01d3e09febc29408e29853ba2d60c06d83c966d97180d5d2142e1c090ea04b925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
顏寬恒 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:17:49 - 11:27:42 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席各位列席官員各位委員同事大家好主席有請主席處我們陳淑芝總長請陳主席長還有呢請主席長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主席長早主席處在6月2日發函給各縣市政府徵詢修正中央對縣市政府補助辦法的意見先不說內容是什麼光是說三天內要求回覆這非常誇張我們立法院要求各部會提供資料或者是請或者是要求這些政策內容到辦公室報告的部分部會都沒有辦法在三天內回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
62.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
各部會沒辦法做到的事情主計總署卻要求各縣市政府三天內就要給出意見那其實根本就沒有要徵詢縣市政府的意見這其實只是一個走形式過場而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這樣的一個時間安排完全不考慮到地方政府實務面的運作情況完全不顧地方政府的反應跟需求當然主席長你的回覆是說因為修法幅度不大也沒有要求地方政府要準時繳交意見這樣子讓我更加難以置信因為影響層面這麼大你說不用準時繳交意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
111.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那主席總署如果這樣子的草率形式提倡東西可以不準時交沒關係那各縣市政府尤其是財政困難的政府看到這一次一般性補助款對這樣子的一個修正都措手不及中央對地方的補助款應該是落實到財政均衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
協助地方維持公共服務品質但是我們看到在編列與分配上出現了嚴重的偏差跟不透明裡面關鍵的權重設定評估項目指標計算方式等都由中央單方面的來決定例如人口數財政自給率社會福利支出等指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
166.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
中央都可藉由資料統計來源來玩數字遊戲來操縱結果造成分配的一個落差補助款對於各縣市政府非常重要因為涉及社福教育基礎建設民生預算等那過程粗糙不堪地方制度法第69條第三項規定中央對地方的補助需要明定項目對象跟比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
167.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
193.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
過去補助規定以付表方式呈現明定列出補助事項此次修法將兩個付表全部刪除導致地方政府無法掌握中央補助會有補助哪些項目也會影響到預算籌編作業預算稅率應該如何編列那編列不足的部分是不是強迫地方政府來舉債 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
207.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
本來應該公開透明的政府機關由中央政府開始做起黑箱作業各地方政府對於中央如何分配補助款一概未知 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
修正補助項目不再名列之後該如何確保補助款分配的公平性與透明性請這個主計長說明是 我要跟委員報告的部分就是說這個部分所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們在6月2號徵詢地方的意見事實上就是說在8月14才召開相關意見的一個徵詢會議以往的經驗當中就是陸陸續續都可以提供意見所以我們在8月14召開意見徵詢會議的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
274.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就是也會把各地方陸陸續續提的意見然後來做一個討論那所以我們在另外我們在8月25也會有分配機制的一個說明到9月13也邀請各縣市首長來做補助交流的一個會議另外在9月17又做一個召開來說明補助項目案金額一個說明會那第二個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
288.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
如果說那個副表的這個部分取消那個部分我們是改以那個就是還是有確定項目副表的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
對我們還是有新增一個就是涵蓋一般新的計劃型原來的付表123處但是我們還是有新增一個付表去涵蓋一般新的計劃型的一個補助項目而且大部分其實大部分都是原來的一個舊計劃引導這是有部分需要中央政策引導的一個項目這個部分我們就延續然後由各部會來訂定一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
316.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
324.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一個補助的一個相關的考核和一個審核的一個要點好 主委長我知道啦這大家心裡都很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
修正後的條文不明確補助款的分配就是一個黑箱作業就像台中捷運南線明年中央應該要補助台中約大概新台幣42億但是交通部卻只承諾合撥1.68億短掃高達96%依照補助款的規定南線建設經費由中央負擔40%台中市負擔6成 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
363.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是依照原本的比例計算明年中央應該要補助台中42億但是交通部卻只承諾合撥1.6億短掃 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
366.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
60倍你們這樣的做法等於是嚴重違背中央跟地方的合作承諾直接衝擊捷運南線的一個建設時程此次修正將一般性補助款又改為申請制那代表以後說補助就要按照政黨的一個以後的補助都要按照政黨來進行分配只要縣市長感動 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
391.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就可以拿到更多的補助款相反的像台中市政府就只能繼續被中央剝奪如果一般性補助款分配完全依賴申請制那不就等於賦予執政黨中央更巨大的一個資源控制權進一步的加劇中央對地方的政治操作地方自治就是輪回口號 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
432.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以以前台中市政府努力還債讓台中市民的平均負債可以減少把台中市的財力成績財力的一個成績從三級拉到二級那台中市本身就是常年被中央大小眼的城市所以好不容易把自己的財力 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
433.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
451.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
集賜然後提升到二級沒有用因為公視不公不楚補助全靠中央的臉色那中央也可以利用財力集賜二級來作為藉口不給補助款所以實際上就是台中市又要再一次的被中央剝一層皮 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
452.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
466.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主委長你不覺得說這一次補助法的一個補助辦法的修正只是讓各縣市政府更加的積極更積極的舉債那你中央也不管啊對不對那只有讓地方政府這樣子一個惡性循環是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
467.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
497.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我跟委員報告一下所謂的台中南線的一個補助這個部分像有關軌道或者是捷運相關的一個建設計畫在中央來講它都沒有剪裂只是它今年編列有困難依照補助的辦法就是中央佔四成地方佔六成高雄因為財力集市第三級所以它才中央補助六成地方要負責四成所以這個都擺在眼前大家看得到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
519.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以他這個部分他都沒有改變他今年是因為他沒有辦法補助額度這麼多所以他是往後也並不是說他不給那以台中來講他是考量他整個工程都還沒有花包然後都市變更都沒有完成用地沒有取得所以才給他金額比較少但是如果他工程花包 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
520.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
539.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以40億什麼時候會到位以後年度他會按照他的工程進度去做撥補所以這個部分是沒有修正的這是交通部跟你說明的嗎這個與目前他在115年度預算數上表達的就是這樣子他的補助比例整個都沒有做變更 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
541.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我跟你講各地方的重大建設都不應該被卡尤其是用這種方式所以軌道的部分我們都沒有一般是沒有這個部分我們原則上都是支持只是他現在中央要編出來是有他的困難所以他是往後延他按照他實際的進度不是按照你所提的需求數 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
562.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
590.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席長你身為中華民國的主席長你應該要為全體國人為中華民國的國民來著想絕對不是看顏色辦事好不好所以我希望你們不要一錯再錯好不好這個部分我們也絕對支持像軌道的部分涉及到比較大眾捷運的一個部分我們原則上是希望能夠能支持中央地方共同來協助把它完成好的 謝謝 |