| IVOD_ID |
164560 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164560 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T10:59:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T11:12:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da14b28f05786891aee29853ba2d60c06d83c966d97180d5d24034e7fd9a14e5935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林思銘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:59:22 - 11:12:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
6.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席 現在請主席講我們請主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主委長好主委長我想我在上個禮拜在院會總質詢的時候我就有跟院長還有跟您請教說針對我們這個中央對直轄市縣市政府這個補助辦法的修正條文將一般性的補助款還有它的補助範圍把它改為具經常性普及性基本建設或維園的性質財政均衡等事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
剛才李燕修委員也提出這個所謂的這個具經常性普及性基本建設或維運的性質它是一個很抽象的法律概念到底它具體的內容是什麼我看到現在地方政府都是不曬曬不是很了解所以請問主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你是否可以明確的告訴我們到底這個一般性補助款的補助項目還有它的評比基準補助的比率到底是怎麼樣的一個具體的內容要很具體的告訴各地方縣市政府否則現在你改成申請制他們要如何申請這個真的會搞不清楚所以主席你可以緊要的跟我們說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
123.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
是 而跟委員報告就一般性補助款的整個的一個項目評比基準還有補助的比率這個訂定的部分是由各部會來訂定那也大部分都是其實它大部分都是很多都是屬於舊有計劃新的計劃是比較少因為新的計劃有很多要經過核定的一個手續那所以這個部分大部分就計劃所以很多的縣市政府其實是可以沿用舊有的一個項目只是說它分配它有按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
124.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
都差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
170.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以這個部分如果說本身就是有一部分是回歸地方他從所獲得的統籌分配稅款去支應之外其他大部分都是原有以前但是我們以前他每一項計畫都要提每一項的一個項目都要提計畫但是我們今年也把它改成就是只要填列表格比如說0到6歲的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就是有簡化就對了對 就是簡化很多一個計畫所以在整個程序上來講它是更方便 更便利而不是說我因為申請我就會比較困難但是有一些大計畫它的確是要申請譬如說捷運或者是軌道這些都必須申請其實 署長 因為就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現在改成申請制所以大家會有一個疑慮就是說到底說我申請出去是不是確實會拿到這樣的一個補助才會有這樣子會不會中央說了算這樣的一個疑慮所以我們認為說你把它改成這樣的一個辦法其實可以說對地方政府充滿不確定性所以我才要你很明確的說明到底我們未來地方政府他要去申請的這個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
239.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為你現在把原則講出來具緊張性 性質還有普及性 基本建設或維運性質但是你剛才又提到說就是跟以前一樣到底是一個具體內容是怎麼樣你在整個辦法在訂的過程中其實都沒有講很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
今天你大概有講出幾個基本的狀況所以我想還是請未來主計總署在整個辦法的修正以前還是要召集各縣市政府來講清楚所以才不會讓人家感覺是一個黑箱的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我们在9月17日召开各县市政府然后很明确的告诉他不是你829就已经把办法修好了我是说你在这次修法之前修这个办法之前你就应该去请各地方县市政府来跟他们说清楚讲明白你修了之后才请他们来我们也会做修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個是我給你的一個建議 以後要改進當然我們還有一個非常重要的一個問題就是說這次的修正把原來我們各縣市政府的財力集赤也被做一個相關的修正導致我們地方政府自籌財源的時候它的比例變成三級跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那辦法修正前是依照最近三年度的稅務決算審定書但是現在你變成要加計財政收支劃分法修正後新增的中央統籌分配稅款也就是說過去三年我這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
依照修正後的這個財政收視化分法所分配到的統籌分配稅款根本還沒拿到啊你現在就把它加進來造成他的財政機制變成三級跳這樣公平合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
115他確定會拿到所以等於是說我們知道115會拿到我如果不納入考量他影響數真的是太大他是真的是太大所以這個部分我必須把它納入我的一個整個一個財政的一個級距裡面去做考量這樣對我整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
台灣才會比較有效的一個運用那所以這個本身115年度確定所以我一定要把它納入影響數來考量如果不納入影響數考量而是用以前年度三年的一個平均那這對所有有一些其他的一個縣市是很大的不公平現在我要跟你討論說你這樣的考量你雖然你有你的考量但是你這樣的一個辦法去你根本就是根本就是不對的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為他根本錢就還沒有入帳他115年絕對會入帳115年絕對會入帳而且有的增加一年增加1500億但是你就去壓縮他的補助款他不能說他的自首款要提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
421.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
自筹款提高它自有裁员增加自筹款当然要提高那有一些自筹款有一些统筹分配税款它本身增加没有那么多这个部分当然是要减少这样在整个各县市才能够得到均衡的一个照顾所以你现在变成说你自己单方面去提出你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
421.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是各縣市政府你看各個縣市政府包含我們新竹縣我們的財政這個集資有那麼好嗎你現在直接把我們調整為第一級從三級變成第一級所以這樣看起來就是非常不合理OK |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
438.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
454.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我還是一直跟你強調說其實整個這個辦法不是不贊成你修但是你在修的過程中要提早告訴各縣市政府聆聽他們的意見讓整個辦法能夠更完整一點好不好 我想所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
455.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
470.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
做大事要走大路不要說是好像小鼻子小眼睛不敢讓各地方政府縣市政府來參與這樣的辦法修出來當然大家會有非常大的意見好 妳請回我現在請阮次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
497.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
市長我們想我們這一次的一個補助辦法的修正那主計總署剛才提到是為了因應這個財劃法的一個修正那昨天財政部邀集各地方政府會商整個這個統籌分配稅款的分配方式根據媒體報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
499.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
509.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
財政部表示將嚴厲把普通的統籌稅款優先權額補助各縣市基準財政收支的差額所以我要請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
511.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
530.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
先前財政部一直堅持無法完整分配所有的統籌分配款就我們剛才講的有345億的一個餘額沒有辦法分配現在我們是又打算以哪一種方式去優先全額補助積損財政收支的差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
532.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
555.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員是講到是345億的問題345億就是說單純是因為計算公視的問題所以假定假定就是說我們大家有共識如果有修公視的話基本上那是地方的財源我們還是會按照公視分配給各地方政府基本上還是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
556.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
576.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
按照哪一種公式啊你現在講公式是哪一種公式是要透過這個修法還是透過因為我現在我要次長我給你一個建議我想我一直在院會諮詢我也講是不是可以依照現在既有的我們的財政收支劃分法的一個公式就去做二次分配啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
577.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
597.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你就做二次分配嘛二次分配還有餘額就做第三次的分配嘛這樣不是很單純嗎但是問題沒有修法我們就是因為它明文規定就是沒有規定我們就依照這種方式就依照原來法律的規定的一個精神去做再次分配嘛是說它明文規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
598.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
它的分子 比如說我用離島來講離島來講 理論上分配的時候我分母應該是三個離島那我分子應該是三個離島來算但是目前的條文怎麼規定就是說分子還是用三個離島可是分母我用全國的22個縣市來算所以當然就分不出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
624.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
640.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
市長你財政部有自己的一套看法其實我的建議我是覺得比較單純就依照原來的公式原來的財政收視劃分法我們訂的相關的條文的權重比例做再次的去分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
640.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
661.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我覺得345億可以把它分配完成如果離島的有問題的話我們在引領離島用什麼樣子的方式去給它做補足嗎這樣可不可行我跟委員報告如果可以做我們就早就做了但是這個錢我們中央也不會拿來用這個錢我們會動機在那邊將來就是說如果將來如果公司解決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
668.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
694.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
能夠儘速解決這個問題然後看財政部如何來修法來把它解決這是我另外就是說針對昨天你們開會針對我們這次的修法你們好像要針對地方自籌財源的部分有關這個營業額的權重要把這個從30%變成8%所以主席總書你這樣的不是那個部長這樣的一個修正對於我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
701.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
724.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個對於我們經濟貢獻度高的縣市變成說會對於整個計算下來我們的這個統籌分配稅款的比例會變少這樣是不是在變相的去懲罰我們經濟貢獻度高的縣市比如新竹縣市你把我們營業稅繳那麼多的你把權重把它這個修到這個降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
725.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
745.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我覺得是這樣 就是說可能這有點要講清楚有點複雜 因為蠻細的那我是覺得 簡單惡要講簡單惡要講所以我這樣講 我還是會後再跟委員解釋好不好是 我是建議 你也不用回答了就是我希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
746.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
768.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
就是像本席所在的新竹縣市是重要的科技大縣長期的經濟貢獻度所創造的稅收都是列在我們全國的前段班所以我希望財政部應該公平合理的去做分配的機制並協助地方政府能夠提升他的財政的自主原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
769.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
782.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以我希望財政部未來你在說研擬的一個修法的版本這個權重比例還是要慎重考量這個我們都是我想我們的目標是一樣再做回覆了再給 稍微回覆一下好 謝謝 |