| IVOD_ID |
164491 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164491 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T09:19:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T09:28:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4dab6770e0986c4116f27ea0d01a9ed952c83c966d97180d5d2440e68855abdbf165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:19:40 - 09:28:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「近期台美關係及關稅談判進展」，併請行政院經貿談判辦公室、經濟部、農業部列席，並備質詢。） |
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主席有請外交部林部長林部長部長早安委員長剛才聽取了您的報告當然我們很肯定外交部在這個廣泛的領域不只是經貿甚至是國際安全和平的問題上所做的努力剛才在您的報告的第二頁我提出一點建議 |
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就是阔湖山南美方并联合各国以军舰通过台海之实际行动展现对自由航行的原则支持防止中国将台海内海化的企图充分展现美方维护印太安全战略趋于稳定的决心这里面我也请条法司司长您方便的话 |
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因为这个里面有涉及到联合国海洋法公约1982年的unclass那么菲律宾输入海对菲律宾来讲它是群岛水域没有国家接受它是内海那么如果台海现阶段还不是内海实际上是公海根本不可能变内海 |
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那美國其他的國家通過台海他是freedom of navigation就是FON那如果像在南海 |
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114.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
人工島礁中國說這個是我是島他畫了經濟畫了領海基線這個時候美國不接受他宣布這個是你的自然的島嶼所以你沒有領海於是他派軍艦穿過中共所畫的領海線 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
133.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那叫Freedom of Navigation Operation那這是政策但是軍艦去執行任務的時候就叫做Found Ops Operations所以這個建議外交部把這個做一個區分好 好吧好 謝謝那後面的幾個問題我要請這個經貿辦公室的執行秘書一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
部長您好您看這個圖前一次已經用過一次但是我們在持續在修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因为我们做的分析是关税谈判代表他是全班的高阶的策略逻辑分析最主要是川普讲了关税问题不只是经济问题是美国的国安问题但一旦讲到国安问题他就涉及到地缘政治地缘经济地缘战略所以他不是存在经济谈判过程中间只focus在经济关税问题了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
200.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
他的目的呢他强调美国优先不能赚美国的钱您在这个报告里都提过可是川普总统他非常聪明他在展现个人卓越第二个不可预测第二个他主导所有政策的发展所以我们从美国的本质目的方法到手段那这个手段的过程中间刚才经贸谈判您也提过了我们已经参加过五轮十次线上会议 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在这个过程中间你看过他的财长是扮演白脸他的商务部长是黑脸那USTR的这个代表他是法律专家他左右调节那这次这个五个轮回回来了以后现在跟中国要谈的就是稀土关税百分百结果美方其实内部他有一个分析就是在左下角这个第一个你在这个谈判过程中间你的底线 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你能不能承担affordability第二个就是说美国的人民跟国际对你的信任度有多少第三个你有没有一个调节的空间第四个达成率有多少对应的是什么第一个我先把你国际情势各种国际组织先拆开来第二个拆除隐性第三个去风险第四个实在不行就脱钩在这个metrics里面他选出的结果就这一次美国财政部长来扮黑脸了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他说美中可脱钩可锻炼但是留了一个弹数双方领导可再谈于是川普总统就讲了我跟习近平总统是好朋友我们在APEC会面 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
大概要谈希图分泰尼大豆还有台湾的问题所以你看到它是一个loop里面重复的滚动修正而且我们不要把这个问题把它绑死也就是说我们有一个完整的对应方案那这个方案怎么来参考呢因为它永远是黑脸白脸左右换脸然后上面施压最后回路重新调整我对你示好请看下一张 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
这张图表就是显示中美经贸谈判这个我们做一个参考它的策略分析战略策略分析第一个优势部分经济基础科技实力谈判工具国际影响力美方跟中方各有优势最后它有结构性的差异那劣势部分就是内部的约制经济的弱度执行的成本战略的困境同样结构性的差异 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
329.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
最后我们就到美中谈判双方内部调整的空间政策的灵活度创新的路径合作的领域谈判的策略最后做结构性的差异我提这个东西主要是一个方法论提供您那边内部做参考就是说在国际谈判过程中间我们是报的对友好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
376.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就是说非常诚恳坦率地谈但是我是建议里面有些tolerance您要留在你的谈判底线因为它不是单独的经济问题它前面已经讲了它把国安就是说地缘政治地缘经济地缘战略的问题全部纠结在一起因此这个对我们经贸谈判代表如果是纯粹从关税经贸 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你看到他跟中共玩的两手策略对国际的情势他永远他保持他有调节的空间那也就是在这种情况下我们要有自己的一个tolerance底线口袋绝对不要一厢情愿对他丝毫通通掏出来了要有一个回路调整的空间 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
以上的这几个方法论我们下去后提供这个部里面同仁做参考另外也有机会我们互相探讨在国际谈判过程中间不要只是focus在经济问题因为他把国安的问题卷进来了以后他通常会拿国际情势的变动 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
434.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
来反映到他要做改变策略的一个论述基础所以错永远不在他是国际情势可变但是可变不可预测如果我们没有一个结构的分析方法论有的时候会吃亏提请部长做参考看看部长你有什么指导 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我覺得委員確實我們也應徵您的方法論這個關稅談判絕對不是單稅一般貿易的問題是從國安角度那必須要有一個架構那這樣一個分析也證明從對等關稅還有232條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
467.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
還有所謂的人工智慧行動發展甚至到最近的稀土有關於供應鏈的重組那美國的政策目標除了現在當然是要透過關稅來減低他的財政的負擔還有可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
469.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
479.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是呢可能其他的政策目標就是剛剛委員提到的在其他的戰略層次其實我們也要去對應它那這個也就是說這不是零和這是好幾個層次的這個交疊那我們的政策目標在哪裡什麼樣創造美國這個是優先台灣也優先那就是說讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
492.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
台美可以有互利雙贏的空間這個就是我們我想站在國安戰略的角度就不同於只是一個純粹的關稅貿易的談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
505.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
532.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這邊再提醒調法師也特別要花點功夫協助有關所謂的經濟海域 領海 內水有關聯合國海洋法公約Unclosed裡面的定義在國際法裡面我們怎麼樣掌握論述的道理而不是被帶動的由接受這些對方提出的條件以上提出參考謝謝部長 我們大家共同努力我們會好好的運用 謝謝 |