| IVOD_ID |
16447 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16447 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-06T08:30:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-06T11:12:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:41:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ead57c7c755d2781a48bd51cfe4d9463a4529fa0cca45d5627bd0ba7a7fecbc6db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「國家公園法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國家公園法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「國家公園法第十三條及第二十四條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:54 - 11:12:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1873.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1900.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
來請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數好我們現在開始開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第二會期內政委員會第24全體委員會議議事錄時間114年1月2日星期四上午95分至下午6時44分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等14人練習委員林德福委員等15人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1901.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1919.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
練習官員行政院秘書長龔明欣及相關人員大陸委員會主任委員邱垂政及相關人員財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長吳豐山及相關人員財團法人台港經濟文化合作策經會董事長賴秀如及相關人員行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員廖玉玲主席徐昭吉委員欣迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1920.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1937.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
报告事项应宣读上次会议议事录决定确定二 其行政院秘书长率同所属就行政院所属人员涉嫌霸凌案件处置情形专题报告并被质询行政院秘书长龚明星报告委员苏巧慧等19人质询有行政院秘书长龚明星及相关人员答复说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1938.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1961.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
決定一登記發言委員處不在場者外其餘均已發言完必詢答結束二委員高晶素美黃建斌等二人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會討論事項一繼續審查一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院部分二繼續審查一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1962.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1986.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
3.继续审查大陆文汇含送财团法人海峡交流基金会114年度预算书案4.继续审查大陆文汇含送财团法人台港经济文化合作策进会114年度预算书案决议1.审查114年度中央政府总预算案关于行政院部分税务部分第二款第三款第四款第五款及第七款储物列数外其余均照列税处部分第二款行政院主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1987.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2014.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
第一项行政院十五亿三千三百六十四万六千元本项提案一百二十八128案保留送院会处理提案内容请参阅二审查一百一十四年度中央政府总预算案关于大陆委员会单位预算税务部分第二款第四款第七款除列数外其余均照列税处部分第二款行政院主管第十五项大陆委员会原列十亿三千九百一十八万六千元简列行政支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2015.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2036.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
媒体政策及业务宣导费300万元第一幕一般行政300万元第二幕综合规划业务600万元第三幕经济业务300万元第五幕港澳蒙藏业务1000万元第六幕联络业务700万元科目均自行调整共计减列3200万元其余均照列改列为10亿0718万6000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2039.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2068.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本项提案二十八案保留送院会处理提案内容请参阅本项通过决议三十一项请参阅三审查大陆委员会韩宋财团法人海峡交流基金会一百一十四年度预算书案收入支出本期剩余均照列本项通过决议七项请参阅四审查大陆委员会韩宋财团法人台港经济文化合作策进会一百一十四年度预算书案收入支出本期短处均照列本项通过决议一项 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2070.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2082.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
5.審查通過之決議之文字授權主席及議事人員整理6.114年度中央政府總預算關於行政院大陸委員會部分審查完畢你據審查報告函送財政委員會提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2085.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2105.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
7.有关政事别税处预算税同各机关别审查结果调整8.114年度中央政府总预算分配由立法院内政委员会审查所有之公务预算部分均审查完均拟据审查报告含送财政委员会提报院会讨论院会讨论前需交由党团协商院会讨论时由徐昭济委员新营补充说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2106.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2122.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
9.财团法人海峡交流基金会及财团法人台港经济文化合作策进会114年度预算书案均已审查完据分别拟据审查报告提报院会公决不需交由党团协商并推请徐召集委员新营于院会讨论时作补充说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2123.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2147.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
通過臨時提案議案其他事項一項決議本案採記名表決方式表決結果在場委員含主席13人贊成者7人反對者6人贊成者多數本案通過宣讀完畢好請問各位委員上次會議意思錄有錯誤或遺漏好沒有錯誤意思錄確定那繼續進行討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2150.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2166.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一审查委员刘雪婷等17人拟据国家公园法部分条文修正草案二审查委员徐富贵等18人拟据国家公园法部分条文修正草案三审查委员王美惠等17人拟据国家公园法第13条及第24条条文修正草案宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2170.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2190.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好那我們現在介紹本日議程所列討論事項合併巡檔那現在介紹在場委員及列席官員在場委員我們有劉旭廷委員王美惠委員蘇巧惠委員黃婕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2196.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2223.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們在場官員有內政部長劉世芳部長我們政務次...不好意思政務次長董建宏我們國家公園管理署的代理署長陳真榮我們法務部參事廖江憲我們張志榮委員也到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2228.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2240.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我們現在請提案委員說明提案要旨我們先請劉徐廷委員你不用喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2245.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2260.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 謝謝謝謝主席首先感謝趙偉安排國家公園法的修法審查大家可以發現國家公園法其實很久沒有修了但目前為止還沒有看到行政院版這是比較遺憾的其實本席從去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2262.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2290.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
今年四月質詢的時候其實就強烈呼籲內政部這個希望趕快來提出院版的國家公園法但已經經過這個大半年了還沒有提出院版的修正草案這是比較可惜的這本期陣頭可以等待行政院的版本送出來之後我們再進到審查的程序我們今天按照安排應該是只有答詢嘛對不對但沒有關係但我們希望內政部不要繼續拖下去請部長趕快來進行處理這個到底待會我們在答詢的時候再來好好問到底這個院版的進度在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2291.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2313.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那國家公園法從這個民國61年公布實施到現在已經53年那都只有微調而沒有大修啊這部年紀比很多立法院現在立委還要大的這個法律喔其實有充滿了60年代的這個法律規定喔這個本期這次提出來的版本最大的就是一個亂丟垃圾的問題喔這個並沒有與時俱進按現行法律丟垃圾的地方不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2314.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2329.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
就適用不同的法律但因為國家公園法年久失修所以本該最嚴加保護的國家公園的這樣一個區域反而卻變成全國上下丟垃圾懲罰最輕的地方比如說非國家公園的森林用森林法56支3條這個罰還是1000到6萬元這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2334.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2356.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在一般的這個市區隨地丟垃圾是用廢棄物清理法第12條由環境部主管罰還是一千兩百元到六千元但在國家公園森林裡面亂丟垃圾竟然只要罰一千元以下這是一件非常非常奇怪的事情所以我們這一次針對在國家公園裡面這個違反不管是亂丟垃圾也好焚燒森林也好的各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2357.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2374.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個不當行為罰則做出了修訂那我們希望在今天的答詢之後可以讓內政部加速提出願版趕快讓這個法令可以有與時俱進的這樣子的一個功能在此簡單的在這邊報告提案說明以上 謝謝好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2379.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2382.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我們現在我們請內政部長劉世芳簡短報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2396.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2414.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家早先感謝各位委員對於內政部尤其是國家公園署業務的關注跟指導那今天委員會召開的是審議國家公園法的部分條文修正草案一共三個案那我們應邀來備詢跟委員做一下簡單的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2415.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2438.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第一個,國家公園法從61年6月13日公布施行其他的條文到99年11月12日,奉立法院第七屆通過部分條文修正之後,使國家自然公園取得設立的法律依據。從此國家公園系統就涵蓋有包括高山、海洋、濕地、淺山生態環境跟人文古蹟、史蹟等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2438.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2455.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
目前九座國家公園及一座國家自然公園已經建立了完整的這個國家的公園系統那國家公園署成立之後有結合59處重要濕地跟整體海岸地區形成全面性的國土保育的網絡那在保育復育 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2456.537 |
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2477.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
淨零、碳排、登山服務、濕地跟海岸管理、國家公園管理等方面的檢要跟各位報告如下第一個因為氣候變遷的環境挑戰那我們推動了國家公園具指標性的物種保育計畫結合公司部門的研究人力希望能夠投入棲地富裕跟確保生物多樣性的維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2478.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2493.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
目前為止包括玉山國家公園的台灣黑熊泰魯閣國家公園的山蕉魚墾丁國家公園的紫斑蝶這些物種保育還有東沙環礁公園的極貫海星清除等等這些也都有拍攝成紀錄片獲得國際大賞的墾丁 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2497.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2514.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那再來就是有關2050淨零排放的目標那國家公園署當然也不能夠排外那所以我們有積極推動國家公園的碳管理計畫跟重要濕地的碳會調查計畫以生物多樣性保育為前提也是跟企業集團來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2514.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2535.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那透過劣化棲地造林以及復育海藻床等行動提升增匯的生產力並且要定期揭露碳匯的進度未來也持續國家公園在處理有關氣候變遷在調試跟減碳的工作那在登山服務方面我們已經有推動國家公園的山屋整體改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2536.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2561.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
台灣登山申請一站式的服務網3.0提升資訊透明以簡化申請流程跟提高登山活動的安全跟宣導譬如說雪壩369山莊的興建也是透過登山山友跟環境學者的專家指導在最低限度的環境影響之下提供山友安全的登山環境那利用公司協力來推動環境永續串聯各個政府部門跟NGO等 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2562.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2576.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
共同推動一個北回歸線永續的發展軸帶那在濕地跟海岸地區的規劃管理方面呢濕地現在已經有增設屏東萬年濕地群的地方級重要濕地共計為59處面積有42730公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2580.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2601.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對尚未完成保護利用的濕地包括彰化方院濕地宜蘭52甲濕地也積極跟地方政府跟在地的NGO合作希望能夠早日完成輔導跟民智利用的依據那有鑒於國家公園內少數遊客的脫序行為譬如說墾丁沙灘的經營管理除了加強取締之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2603.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2610.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們也跟相關機關包括地方政府屏東縣政府以及地方的鄉鎮公所來合作而且希望未來可以透過通盤檢討的方式一起來處理那也跟相關的單位包括農政主管機關譬如說有關梅花路水牛這些議題也必須要跨機關有合作平台才能夠提升國家公園的油氣品質那為了配合成立這個國家公園署的組織改造 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2630.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2657.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
現在我們在處理國家公園法的修正法制作業除了委員所關心的在罰則的增加之外對於各項違規行為的樣態包括對環境影響的程度還有依比例原則如何提高還有針對重大違規的行為的保留行則之外也增訂得按次連續處罰沒入設施或工具機具未改善或回復原狀至生成其他損害的應賠償損害之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2659.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2676.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
此外對於少部分山友在颱風等天災期間未經登記許可及入山或入園造成後續救援資源的耗費等也實有所聞所以也要研商如何提高罰則避免國家資源的浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2677.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2680.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那有關各位委員所建議的國家公園法的修法提案我們竟表同意那但是呢希望能夠把這個整部的國家公園法裡面包括剛剛所說的現在國家公園的各種樣態要能夠因應我們的國際上面在處理氣候變遷的調適跟減碳的原則還有呢有其他的相關法律包括國土計畫或者是相關的保育復育計畫等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2702.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2716.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
容我們有一些時間來把法制作業做更完整的程序整理那提早送到 儘早送到大院來審議那請大院委員可以多多指教共同完善我們國家公園的整體業務以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2722.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2743.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那其他單位報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那我們現在進行詢答委員諮詢前原力做幾下幾點宣告本會委員發言時間五分鐘必要時間延長一分鐘非本會委員發言時間四分鐘上午十點三十分截止發言登記那 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2747.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2759.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們今天處理法案 所以本次會議就不處理臨時提案 請問各位委員有沒有意見好 沒有 好那我們現在進行詢答 請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員好 謝謝主席那我想請 先請劉部長上台好 請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2779.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2793.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
委員好部長好我們今天雖然是審查國家公園法但是我在詢問國家公園相關問題前我還是想針對你在1月2號布務會議的時候那記者會的這個布務會議後面的記者會的發言來進行詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2796.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2825.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你其實在1月2號的時候提到才化法通過後內政部可能需要配合刪減28%的預算28%是多少其實高達了283.5億而且按照相關的法令還不能扣除法定義務支出和一般型的補助所以我想請部長你能不能再明白說明一下就是內政部有沒有試算過之後到底會減少多少然後發生什麼樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2826.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2841.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就是283億嗎是的謝謝委員我們是根據這個那個行政院主計總署所提出來的就是說如果有28%的三減的額度的話那我們是哪一些額度呢可能會需要請地方政府自籌裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2843.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2870.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
也就是說我們的立場不管財政收支劃分法未來到底有沒有三讀通過然後會影響到114年的預算在我們內政委員會其實已經有就是說在內政委已經有審查通過大部分的內政部的預算我們是希望按照這樣子的業務來進行但是在預算的分配就會配合在立法院的財劃法是否有送到總統府公告之後有沒有影響到114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2870.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2877.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以我們內政部是要配合行政院的整體的作業所以我們在試算的過程當中所以我覺得您應該是要趕快開始進行這相關的未來預期的狀況所以我們確實很想知道那到底哪一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2892.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2919.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
影響的金額是這麼高三成兩百多億將近三百億這樣的狀況那到底哪一些預算會受到影響是新興計劃嗎還是計劃型補助還是什麼部長你在這裡到底試算的結果到什麼程度了能不能跟我們分享一下也讓我們有個心理準備啊是 報告委員我想大家都知道新興計劃如果沒有經過大院在未來的一百一十四年總預算通過的時候就不能夠執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2920.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2940.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
但是我們現在試算的就是已經實行很多年的計畫大一部分都會放在我們國土的業務這其實跟人民一般生活很多比如說生活圈道路上或者是說人行道的安全改善中央政府跟地方政府都有一定的籌款的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2942.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2950.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那另外一個就是說我們在籌辦非常多時也深受大院很多委員同意譬如說我們的社會住宅興建還有我們包租代管業務還有我們土地租金的補貼等等這些大一部分283億的預算會落在這個區塊那這個區塊未來的增點會是說那是由地方政府來出還是中央政府出 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2965.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2991.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為我們認為說業務還是要照常推動不要影響到一般人民對 我們就舉一個這個人行道的改善好了過去為我的選區為新北爭取了非常多這個人行道改善計畫的補助部長你可不可以說明一下現在以新北舉例的話我們補助的乘數是多少那你有沒有預算過那未來補助的乘數是到零嗎還是是已經有一個預設的狀況我們要看一下在新北市現在多少 以現在來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2995.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3016.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
現在在那個新北市它的財力分級是第二級也就是自籌款的比例是百分之三十是啊所以現在七成都是由中央補助的喔過去我們這樣爭取的時候七成是由中央補助報告委員我跟您補充一下有關於這個租金補貼的部分呢在過去的兩年呢是全部由中央來支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3017.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3037.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是這是基金補貼我剛剛說我們如果以人行道改善為例的話過去是七成是由中央補助因為我們爭取太多了所以我們印象深刻每一條如果不是中央補助的話其實這個部分幾乎沒有辦法改善這樣的狀況這是一般的狀況我們通常在過去幾年當中的前瞻基礎建設計畫裡面其實中央的這個層數就會更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3042.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3060.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以過去我們其實在前瞻計畫裡面新北市在全國的爭取數額是排名第二那在其他的中央補助方面其實我們的占比是相當的高的那現在如果新的財化法這樣通過之後我們當然樂見地方有更多的財源沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3061.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3070.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
但是到底全責怎麼分我們也是希望中央這邊能夠盡快跟地方政府討論完之後我們要有心理準備而且到底是從什麼時候就要開始啟動這樣子的一個算法這樣的一個全責分布我覺得這個部分 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3077.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3085.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
因為我們會期大概就是到這個禮拜左右最多也是到1月是不是在下個會期之前你們要告訴我們也讓我們地方政府能夠了解讓全國民眾了解到底哪一些日常生活的狀況我們跟我們直接相關的建設尤其是越小型越貼近一般生活的會受到影響這個要讓我們清楚的知道未來的權責在中央還是在地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3100.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3122.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
是 其實我們在處理這些預算有可能會影響到我剛剛有提到我們不希望影響到一般的市民的生活當然沒有人希望影響那就是中央政府跟地方政府全責劃分的話是要每樣每樣來談是 我想這是為了政府所屬的部分大概就是在於就是剛剛所說的包括生活圈或者是道路或者是安全人行道安全等等這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3123.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3145.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
其實我們會一個縣市一個縣市跟他們仔細其實再跟你就教一下啦其實剛剛說到是一般人民生活有感但其實以全國大的專案來講的話比如說打炸打炸的專案現在是有跨部會73億嘛秦州警政署是有這個網路科技運用經濟計畫就高達44億那這個計畫會不會受影響我們的打炸成效會不會受影響這個到時候也應該要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3150.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3169.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
對 網路精進計畫的話全部都是由警政署來處理是啊 所以這個2803會不會受到影響好 那如果像今天跟國家公園相關的這個太魯閣國家公園0403的地震災後復建計畫30億嘛30億 那這個會不會受到影響因為這個是以行政院的特別預算或是二倍金來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3170.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3189.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
是 所以過去行政院其實已經補助相當的多那現在的這些到底哪一些是會受到影響的我們希望在下個會議一開始的時候會部長也可以讓我們大家能夠了解全責全責的劃分我想這是全國人民都想知道的部分好 我們會以大院未來的這個設定的方向為主來做設算好 謝謝部長好 那我們請張志龍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3208.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3214.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早安是不是請劉世芳劉部長好請部長張委員早部長早新年快樂新年快樂好首先請教部長最近社會上尤其新聞媒體上討論沸沸揚揚的就是有關於第一件要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3233.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3263.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
部長就是有網紅稱台灣有超過10萬人領大陸身份證我想要請教第一點這是事實還是認知作戰有網紅拍影片說有10萬人持有中華人民共和國的身份證那10萬人的部分好像據我們現在內政部所查得的資料現在只有兩人再說現在請教第一個10萬人跟兩人中間的差異是到底誰說的是真誰說的是假 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3264.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3278.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
報告委員我想我們都是依照事實跟依照我們的法定的程序來處理那我現在只能引用我們的陸委會主委也是上個禮拜在這個接受訪問的時候有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3279.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3301.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
他們知道領有這個大陸身份證的大概是兩萬多人啦但是這個部分我們目前為止沒有任何這個法律上面的依據可以去確認所以我們仍然在查查當中那這個所謂的兩人的部分是因為在這個網紅所PO出來的這個影片裡面呢這兩人是自己把這個卡片秀出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3303.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3324.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以你們是看卡片所以看卡片卡片沒有品嚐不是我們看卡片變成有人來檢舉那目前呢我們這邊還是有人來檢舉那我們根據檢舉的部分正在查查當中所以部長的意思是說你們有跟這個陸委會甚至海基會做聯絡所以現在得知您的看法是說您認同陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3325.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3355.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主委認為全台灣目前有兩萬人有查證過嗎有中華大陸的身份證是這樣嗎我剛有提到我們就是依法行政那個沒有確切證據之前我不會所以陸委會有證實說有兩萬人沒有我是說陸委會的主委他在接受訪問的時候就是就他們了解是這樣子的一個數目字但是我們沒有查沒有辦法去查查清楚目前為止陸委會的資料因為我跟部長報告因為那個陸委會不是你瑕疵的嘛你瑕疵的是移民署嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3355.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3381.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那所以我是說可以拜託部長這邊請移民署來去跟這個陸委會或海基會做這個各部會之間的往來是不是可以提供給我們本委員會的委員說現在到底台灣人有多少台灣人有大陸身份證的資料可不可以提供人數給我們內政委員會的委員來做參考好那是不是給我們一點時間因為我們需要跨部會去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3382.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3407.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
可以可以因為我認為這樣的認知作戰是不正確的讓全台灣人覺得說好像這樣的事情是很正常的可是其實是不正常的那第二個我可不可以請問再請教你一件事因為也有這個別的委員來質詢我們本黨的陳玉珍委員說陳玉珍委員有大陸的這個身份證這一點因為有牽扯到我們國會議員的尊嚴那是不是可以請部長順便幫我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3409.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3423.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
各部會的資料調一下看有沒有這樣的情形來以還給我們國民黨陳一尊委員清白好但是我先跟委員報告第一個這個資然後第二個就是說有沒有而已沒有牽扯到個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3427.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3452.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我跟委員報告第一個我們會按照委員的指示來辦理那第二個是各自然後第三個呢就是說有關立法委員他的這個身份問題等等啦還是以立法院的這個委員職權行使法裡面為主那我想我們按照這些法令來執行的話我們會按照程序來處理好嗎好 謝謝 謝謝部長那第二個要請教部長的是最近也是有新聞說有這個列政部有查出有五個里長 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3454.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3483.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
是有取得這個大陸身份證的一個狀況沒有放棄中國國籍的部分請問這個資料部長你們是如何得知是我們從包括移民單位裡面所得到的就是說第一個在這五位里長他們在法定的時間內並沒有提供給我們相關單位他放棄中國國籍的證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3485.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3504.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以他們沒有因為他們有中國國籍可是沒有在預定的時間中法定的時間中給你們相關的資料可是就這個想法我想請教部長的是說因為現在依照特殊的狀態其實依照兩岸的民關係條例大陸是屬於我們中華民國的地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3505.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3520.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那如果以這個兩岸人民關係條例的適用的話當然也有委員提出來是不是就不適用國籍法的規定那這個兩岸人民關係條例在特殊情形下是不是可以先適用兩岸人民關係條例而不是用國籍法請部長稍微解釋一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3521.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3546.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
謝謝委員我想我們電政部已經有多次對外說明我們在民國112年的時候呢已經有那個行政院的含釋就是兩岸條例從81年開始公佈到現在兩岸互不隸屬是一個事實而且是現況那所以中國大陸人民跟中華民國國民是明顯有別那麼按照憲法第三條的規定具有中華民國國籍者為中華民國國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3549.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3577.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那民國89年的國籍法修法已經定義國籍的用詞由中國人修正為中華民國國民那入出國籍移民法第三條第一款也規定中華民國國民是指具有中華民國國籍之居住台灣地區設有戶籍國民或台灣地區無戶籍國民我要跟委員報告你只要跟我們講法條是什麼就好不用念法條的內容不然時間拖太久 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3578.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3597.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
兩岸人民關係條例 國籍法 戶籍法所以這些 喔 了解所以這些都是高於這個兩岸人民關係條例所以現在就不是用這個兩岸人民關係條例用您剛剛講的這些法條嗎那本席尊重好 那下一個問題本席還是要請教剛剛我們很多委員有在請教的就是說在財化法通過了以後這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3600.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3623.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
內政部有一個新聞稿跟臉書上面就寫說義務支出將減少28%影響民生政策跟新的計畫推動的問題可是我們也都知道主計處現在已經2025年的主計處說沒有要重編任何的財務資料我想要請教部長的部分就是說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3624.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3649.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
主計處還沒有算出來內政部到底是減多少的義務支出有確定是28%啦報告我跟委員都有提到過我們是根據設算的基礎去算出來的那這是由會計單位提供的主計處有提供你們就是減少28%未來一定會減少28%理論上但是因為114年的預算如果大院都通過的話我想就不會影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3650.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3677.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那其實最要拜託部長的就是說因為我本身我們選區在中和其實我們有爭取污水下水道的一個改建案那這一個污水下水道的改建也是百分之百中央補助我們不需要說這個有任何的影響因為大家都知道說在113年的稅收超出了五千多億五千多億的金額其實是可以來去做在財化法的影響下可以來去做互相的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3678.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3698.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以我希望說部長是不是可以再下個位置還是盡快提出財化法修正後這個內政部他整個預算整體的編列的狀況因為內政部是掌管我們全台灣所有這個非常重要最大的一個部會可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3698.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3724.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
是不過我先跟委員補充一下如果是原來的特別預算也就是前瞻基礎建設預算的話其實不會受到所謂的年度預算的業務推動的影響那如果說是未來假設未來2025或是2026是受到未來的財化法的比例上分配的話我們也是要先跟縣市地方政府來談論就是說某一條大的建設計畫是要怎麼樣做財源的比例分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3725.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3746.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那我們的原則我看中央政府跟地方政府的原則都是希望能夠照常推動只是說那個錢要由誰出這個就是變成大家要來一起努力的那有沒有機會就是說2025年的部分因為稅收超徵的部分所以2025年的預算不管是中央地方的預算就照過去的計劃書的部分繼續去推動等2026年討論2026不要討論2025 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3749.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3768.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
報告委員 稅收超徵與否大概不是內政部主管可是部長你可以提出建議啊我們是把我們的需求送到行政院要求行政院在做那個各部會跨會協調的時候明年不一定有稅收超徵嘛好 所以拜託部長我這是一個很好的提議請部長參考好嗎好 謝謝好 請蔓玉珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3788.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3794.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好 謝謝主席有請部長好 請部長給你喝一杯我看你喝 為什麼要喝茶給你喝一杯 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3812.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3828.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
麥美媛好 新年快樂 新年快樂 部長好第一個題目我想要跟你講的是說我們民進黨現在在搞政治清洗 清算 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3829.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3853.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
鬥爭執政八年不修憲現在在立法院變成少數黨的時候再來想透過操弄意識形態來製造對立製造國內緊張的芒果乾請教部長中華民國憲法增訂修文第十一條條文的內容是什麼因為剛才我看你都講條文我問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3858.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3874.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
可不可以請麥委員再講第8條的條文第11條的條文的內容是什麼自由地區與大陸地區人民權利義務關係及其他事務之處理得以法律為特別之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3877.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3903.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
對 所以是自由地區與大陸地區間人民權利義務關係及其他事務的處理得以法律為特別的規定嘛 對不對所以呢 我們要請教我們的部長在兩岸人民關係的條例第九之一條的第二項的內容又是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3906.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3915.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
就要唸出來是嗎對啊第九一條的第一項是台灣地區人民不得在大陸地區設有戶籍或領用大陸地區護照 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3917.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3938.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這是第一項第二項違反前項規定在大陸地區設有戶籍或領用大陸地區護照者除經有關機關認為有特殊考量必要外喪失台灣地區人民身份及其在台灣地區選舉罷免創制複決擔任軍職公職及其他已在台灣地區設有戶籍所衍生相關權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3939.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3962.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
並由戶政機關註銷其台灣地區之戶籍登記但其因台灣地區人民身份所付之責任及義務不因而喪失或免除第三項本條例修正施行前台灣地區人民已在大陸地區涉及或領用大陸地區護照者其在本條例修正施行之日起六個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3963.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3979.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
註銷大陸地區戶籍或放棄領用大陸地區護照並向內政部提出相關證明者不喪失台灣地區人民身份是的 說說照這樣子的話我們是沒有台灣的 沒有大陸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3984.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3992.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
戶籍就是我們的公職及其他在台灣設有戶籍所延伸的相關權利為什麼當初憲法增訂條文有兩岸關係兩岸條例的這樣子的規定就是因為我們不承認中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4007.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4016.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
中華人民共和國是個國家嘛所以沒有放棄國籍的要求只是要求放棄我們大陸的戶籍對不對沒有要求兩岸關係我們的大陸配姊妹放棄國籍的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4028.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4039.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
要求他們放棄戶籍所以現在你是承認我們的中華人民共和國是一個國家是嗎中華人民共和國是一個國家我們當然承認全世界都承認中華人民共和國是一個國家所以我們是台灣跟他們是兩國之間是嗎我們是中華民國所以兩國之間所以你們的兩岸關係有要求放棄國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4058.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4068.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
要求誰放棄誰的國籍陸配有要求他們放棄國籍嗎還是你們兩岸之間只要求他們放棄戶籍而已中華民國的國民有他的權利跟義務那義務的話包括要服兵役但是呢如果是有專政權的話他有進入我們台灣的身份是你們要求的但是我們一擊中華 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4084.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4103.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
民國的那個憲法已規定可以得到只要上市大陸的戶籍以大陸的護照就可以擁有台灣地區的選籍權依法擔任公職這個是你們剛才你也講說我們是只要放棄這個是因為我們進來台灣的身份陸配他是用兩岸關係條款拿到身份證 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4112.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4128.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
外配是有用國籍法所以當你進來的身份如果你全部用國籍法你覺得說他兩國關係你就是用國籍法但是你沒有用國籍法也是這個是你們規定讓我們在台灣拿到身份的不是我們自己說的算嘛但是你現在就拿這個來說就是這個條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4137.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4143.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這樣子的話條文很清楚但是為什麼你去造謠說他們這樣子的自己解釋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4145.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4147.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
的法律但是你要求的跟你解釋的法律就完全不一樣所以我們台灣有38萬的陸配擁有對岸的國籍沒有私校難道這些就是在選舉剛才你說里長有幾個這個選舉之前登記你們覺得合法合規合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4168.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4170.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
才讓他們去選的嘛 選上了 現在你再拿國籍法來去卡大家所以你現在就是要創造兩國之間的鬥爭嗎報告委員 我們並沒有說謊 內政部的主管的法律當然是國籍法如果今天它不是中華人民共和國 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4191.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4201.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
她是美國 她是英國 她是日本如果她當選了民意代表的話她也必須要放棄她在日本 美國 英國的國籍所以我們都一律適用並沒有特別的規段進來的條款你就是要規定了不要等說拿到身份證再來規定這樣叫人家生小孩生了以後說你不可以先把她塞進去這樣不行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4217.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4219.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們才化法居住正義,剛才我們委員都有問說,我們才化法,我們法律已經通過了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4237.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4241.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
有通過了 有執行了嗎會影響到今年114年了嗎還沒有嘛但是呢 你到處來去宣傳剛才有委員把你的新聞稿 還有你的公文什麼都放上去但是呢 在我們追求真相的時候呢打破你的謊言 就是財政部我們沒有說謊 我一直在表達這是涉算這是涉算 不是試算你想到今年是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4267.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4279.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
你要去算什麼 我們還沒有執行你不能說這樣子去做造謠 讓人民誤解報告委員 我們都按照大院的規定來執行大院的規定 這樣我們是財政部長我們莊部長 還有主機總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4284.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4287.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
主機長陳總機長兩位在12月30號他也在質詢的時候說一算今年114年不會有衝突也不會重編但是你依據哪裡說我們今年114年我們的居住正義就有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4308.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4314.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以就是你這造謠嘛 讓人民不懂得法律的時候 這是第一章我們說居住正義不受影響的狀況之下 要中央政府跟地方政府一起來討論如何分配財源如何分配沒錯 但是目前還沒有進行 也法律還沒有上過 所以我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4330.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4333.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們的部長不叫就是創造更多的讓我們人民的好讓我到目前為止都是理性來回應您的問題沒錯 但是我們財化法還沒有開始希望我們的部長 如果大家都像部長這樣子的話就是亂編 就是亂造謠我們也沒有亂編 是經過立法院審議通過的我們內政委員會審議通過 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4359.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4370.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
才不會讓這個就是去造謠把錢還給人民這樣才是真正的去處理謝謝委員 我們一點都沒有造謠好 我們請黃美惠委員主席我們這裡保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4388.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4392.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那個國家公園署來部長跟我們代理署長委員長早部長認真發表認真做為了這個採訪法的成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4403.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4407.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
大家互相尊重啦因為事情發生我們應該是在三獨的進展要整個好啦到現在到在那裡說有夠不夠跟你說白痴怎麼樣我覺得對你也很不禮貌啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4420.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4423.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
因為一個國家一個地方都希望可以有經費去地方建設像我來自嘉義市,嘉義市現在也要做嘉義市市民中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4437.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4439.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
在84年今年已經是一國第一的分母黨要做了在這個過程當中,我也會歡樂說,到下一代不知道會不會上山去,做一半也不會一般的自尊的佩穗都會這麼的歡樂 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4462.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4469.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
像我們自己在骨髓下水道做得這麼快做得這麼好的時候每天的病每天要做的事我們也會怕因為我們會知道說是什麼的補助沒有應用到什麼的補助沒有應用到即使民意代表都為了那些 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4486.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4489.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們會發生什麼?因為在這兩年,加拿大也需要我們中央的補助有的人說,加拿大未來才會發貨,可以賺很多錢這不是賺很多錢或不賺很多錢,是一個體制,要讓國家安然平靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4513.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4514.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個才是我最好的,所以我願望,不像你說的,還未決定,如果有一個視線的時候,我認為大家就是要認真去思考未來有很多發生的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4532.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4537.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我們不是說看誰要來處理看誰要來整理說跟誰應該要補助、不用補助、要做什麼我們也要順便做我們不是看一間公司而已我們是看這麼多公司二十多個縣市裡面不是跟一個縣市你的歡樂啊所以本席要跟你說的就是說你不要看什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4562.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4567.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
在他們的才華發揮時,尤其是高利貸,拜託保證,注意一下到現在有的做得好,未來要做得好,要拜託注意高利貸的保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4578.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4583.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我跟委員報告一下剛才委員所說的跟他市政府的市民中心這個屆委的委員很大的情緒都中補助現在是一千七百...對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4596.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4604.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
對,1億多,1億1700多港粉5噸然後全部是中央啦中央,我們也知道市政府是市長不一定是民進黨籍但是這個部分是一百四十年的新興計劃新興計劃那新興計劃的話如果大院完全通過整體的行政院的計劃的時候我們才能夠按照這個計劃的執行進度去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4624.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4626.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
新興計劃一定要通過這個大院114年的這個整體的計劃 它是一個計劃你現在再說回來就是說本身它在想要去這個市民中心的時候它就是有起這個計劃讓你們在委員會來評審之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4643.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4651.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
大家共同的努力,才有這個經濟好的嘛因為我直接要跟你說,因為說實在的,我沒有分什麼黨因為一旦來到中央,就是為國鄉建築,我們的市長也很認真的,我們家庭市民的社會也很認真的,所以我也 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4668.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4672.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
很認真在中央證出我們的遺産在這個規定當中這個市民中心已經很久了萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4697.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4701.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這裏面因為本縣先幫你探討這個地方的建設的問題因為我也會歡樂在這今天我們說國家公園花本縣也有提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4715.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4720.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
要修法,在這個修法當中,最近我們的跨年,也有人去背書給一個團體一個人丟包啦在這個當情,同樣跨年的時候,也給一個團體一個人丟包啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4740.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4743.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
要不說命運不一樣啦今年的跨年晚會 那個平安就來了另外一小時的跨年晚會 一起的時候因為他有酒頭撞到 再來的時候 已經過世夢了啦所以 部長 署長 我要跟你說 因為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4768.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4773.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
臉書也好,耳朵也好,很方便的,在酒廊打掃,那是非常不安全,不公平所以本學在這裡,因為這順的時間夠了,我有提出我的手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4788.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4796.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們有說看多少資金,看多少,我都覺得這都太久了在這個過程當中,我們要趕緊跟林務署下去合作,因為我覺得你們的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4806.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4811.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
國家事務會公文裡面,你們看,如果有點會收到的,你們再給這邊看,我覺得你們要一個統籌,要怎麼做,不然現在這裡不是我要看的,要再過這邊,這樣沒辦法做工作啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4826.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4831.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們未來國家公園法如果修過以後那個農業部或者是交通部跟國家公園相關或是地方公園的這個相關的法則會趨於一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4851.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4869.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
因為我認為這樣也好 也要顧及出來 不能說會害死人 做會害死人我們現在還要再跟原住民委員會有關狩獵的部分 再做一下清楚的交代跟分析那會儘早送到大院來審查好 謝謝 議長好 我們請徐維珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4881.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4882.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
謝謝主席 我們請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4890.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4916.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
徐文早部長早部長內政部今天對於委員所提的國家公園的修法看起來好像沒有表示什麼意見但是對於立法院三讀通過的裁劃法內政部就有很多的意見因為本席發現我們內政部的臉書指出立法院三讀通過裁劃法會大幅減少中央的裁員支出經過試算明年要至少必須刪減約 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4917.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4922.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
283.5億的支出就是佔總額的28%才能勉強打平請問劉部長114年度內政部的預算我們內政委員會已經完成出審了那請問內政部有被刪除283.5億元的經費嗎報告委員我剛有特別提到114年的預算在內政委員會已經完成審查送到這個財政委員會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4944.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4970.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那所以我們要按照立法院未來在處理行政院的整體預算的進度來執行那我剛剛有跟委員有提告提報過就是我們現在的設算就是如果按照新的財化法的話呢在內政部最大的影響量是減少28%但是這次28%不是針對114年的部分但是我們用114年比較完整的部分請我們的會計單位去算出來的所以它叫一個試算 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4971.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4993.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
是 您在臉書的部分有特別提到就是114年的為例 用這個為例是 但是我在想啦 因為明明就已經通過了這個114年的預算喔那我覺得內政部現在用這樣子一個臉書事實上就在釋放假訊息啊所以是不是要讓我們這個在第二輪協商的時候是不是要請我們要提案3減28%才能夠這個提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4997.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4998.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以今年是沒有要重編的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5015.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5016.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們按照大約的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5044.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5055.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
了解 我回去來檢討一下好嗎是 我覺得這個既然不是今年度的狀況我覺得要嘛就撤掉要嘛就是你們再一個重新的散佈一個真實的狀況以114年度來說不會有這樣子的一個預算被刪減的一個狀況好嗎好 謝謝我來檢討 謝謝委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5064.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5078.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那尤其在裡面還有一點就說你這邊的連述有提到說三減涉災興建與住宅補貼等計劃如果說真的預算不足的話三減預算是不是應該以不會影響民生問題的預算為主對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5080.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5094.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
部長請問一下如果真的預算不足我們刪減預算是不是應該以不會影響民生問題的預算為主我們不管是不是民生或是其他的預算我覺得都不應該刪減那如果真的預算不足的話是不是應該先以民生問題的這個預算要先 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5100.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5106.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們按照預算科目應該編列因為我現在發覺內政部這一次在臉書上列出來刪減的都是民生必要的項目但是像是媒體宣傳這個部分就完全都不刪減請問這是要宣傳嗎因為比如說像上面有提到內政部編列的言論自由紀念活動媒體製作脫波及刊登費用二二八國家公園紀念館的展覽與營 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5125.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5138.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
引因相關媒體宣導作用跟威權統治時期國家不法行為受害者權利回復相關媒體宣傳費用難道這些的宣傳都比租金補貼還要重要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5140.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5157.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
內政部說這個警政署反詐騙的相關技術更新跟基層執行力強化計劃因預算不足而延後推進可是卻一直持續的投入這個資金在自然憑證的推廣活動的媒體宣傳費用這不是本末導致嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5158.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5176.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
抱歉抱歉那個跟委員報告一下我們預算都是按照科目來編列而不是說整體全部把它當成一項來編列那您剛講到就是說我們關心有關民生建設的部分那我看在你們的臉書上面所要刪減的部分全部都是跟民生有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5177.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5197.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
反而宣傳的部分通通都沒有提到還是照樣好像就是要繼續來執行報告委員我想我們的本意一定不是這個樣子我們只是說明出未來的設算的話是地方政府要籌設的裁員可能會因為中央政府刪除掉以後地方政府要增加這些裁員他剛剛部長已經允諾就是有關你們臉書釋放的不實的言論你們會再重新來檢討我們未來怎麼來處理我覺得還是要讓社會大眾讓民眾了解真正今年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5206.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5209.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們的預算沒有從編也不會三減28%的預算讓大家很清楚今年的狀況財化法的增加只會讓我們的財源當地方的自主現在只是讓我們本來屬於地方的財源還給地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5221.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5236.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
本來中央跟地方本來就是60跟40的比例現在已經變成中央75 地方25地方少了15%的財源他們這個地方的財源自主的狀況沒有辦法達到所以我們現在只是把原來屬於地方的15% |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5238.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5257.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個還給他們10%所以這樣並不會影響到中央的任何裁員那未來中央跟地方要怎麼去協調每個項目的怎麼樣來使用中央地方平均來分配我想比較理性的做法就是說我們讓中央政府跟地方政府共同來算一下裁政收支劃分法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5260.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5279.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
來去面對這個已經三讀通過的財化法應該是大家來去面對怎麼樣對地方跟中央好我覺得這樣子比較重要但是地方政府有一些是國民黨籍的地方政府有告訴我們說就算按照新的財化法通過之後他們未來所要擔負的財源反而沒有轉轉像現在這麼好因為還有特別預算在預算這個財化法已經三讀通過了就應該要讓財化法正式的實施未來這些問題我們再來討論謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5290.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5293.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好 謝謝徐局長委員 那再來我們請劉許廷委員謝謝主席 這個劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5304.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5320.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
幾件事情跟部長做一下探討這首先是剛剛很多委員關心很多媒體記者在外面其實也都期待部長有明確的說法就是說有關於身份證還有里長違反這樣子的一個條件然後可能會被解職的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5322.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5340.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這個本席理解這民進黨政府有自己的一個主張啦你剛剛有講說基本上因為國籍法有規定嘛如果有外國國籍者當然就不能在中華民國擔任公職嘛對不對你那說法是這樣對不對民選公職跟法定的公職都在內都在內嘛因為不能有外國國籍嘛這是國籍法的規定嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5341.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5368.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我就問了嘛現在按照這個民進黨政府的解釋基本上就把中華人民共和國視為外國嘛所以才會有適用國籍法的問題對不對因為從憲法到兩岸人民關係條例到國籍法到戶籍法還有剛剛我提到的不管是從81年89年或者是102年的你只有講戶不隸屬啦但是他是不是外國我認為是還有討論的所以我有提到行政院的含釋告訴我們現在的解釋就是當成外國嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5368.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5376.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好那這個當然就是在外面從政治的角度解讀這要變成兩國論從事實上來看也是一樣的我想請部長評論一下如果他是外國的話那為什麼我們現在在立法院裡面這個海基會跟陸委會放在內政委員會他為什麼不是放在國防外交委員會為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5389.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5413.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
海基會他是民間團體海基會跟陸委會嘛譬如說預算審查有他們的時候對不對這個上個禮拜我們還在審他們的預算他們為什麼被放在內政委員會所以如果立法院要更改我們沒有意見因為委會他的功能跟職長不是由內政部來調查的你認為這是立法院的決定好沒關係那我再問如果他是外國的話因為互不隸屬的關係嘛這是你現在的主張為什麼我們特別需要兩岸人民關係條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5415.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5438.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
你所有東西都比照國外國籍法是最重要的如果回歸到原來的兩岸人民關係條例的話就是回歸到中華民國開始有總統選舉的時候那時候的中華民國的總統是李登輝先生那他所提出的特殊國與國關係所以變成兩岸人民關係一路修法以來就是用這樣的方向來處理我們也是按照兩岸人民關係條例所賦予的國籍法跟戶籍法來做修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5440.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5452.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
實際上來講就是特殊的關係嘛那他到底是國與國的關係但是是特殊的國與國關係大概李登輝總統他是這樣明示所以在當時李登輝總統是執政的總統所以當時的兩岸人民關係條例的修正一直這樣下來我知道你要講什麼但是你剛剛講說兩岸是特殊國與國關係這是你自己的主張還是行政院跟賴總統的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5464.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5487.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
報告委員我對我來講行政院的主張或是賴總統的主張不是由我可以來幫他們回應但是在我來講我們內政部所主導的現在現在是內政部的主張不是主張內政部裡面是依照法律授予給我們的權利去做行政的規範所以不是主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5487.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5510.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
不是主張是我們依法行政我們內政部的主導是國籍法跟戶籍法那國籍法跟戶籍法如果跟兩岸人民關係條例跟兩岸人民關係條例有模糊的空間的時候行政院的含釋所以剛剛我在念的部分有包括行政院的含釋所以某一些層面這樣子的政策指導就來自於行政院嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5511.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5539.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
對不對就是說你可以用這樣的方式來認定因為你拿的是行政院的含釋嘛今天我們談這個事情並不是本席要跟你在辯論這個東西到底誰對誰錯沒有的現在民進黨是執政黨我們也沒有打算繼續當什麼剎車皮但是我想講得很清楚的是如果你要講它是特殊國與國關係或者是你想要實踐所謂的兩國論請你由上到下一貫的東西包含建請立法院把陸委會跟海基委移到國防外交委員會包含討論廢止所謂的兩岸人民關係條例如果你真的要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5540.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5567.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
你就好好的去做如果你考量有特殊的狀況他必須承認特殊的狀況請你也不要雙標這是本屆的主張這是委員的主張還是整個國民黨團這樣的主張這是我的主張因為現在在立法院裡面國民黨團其實他是占多數他的發言權以及他立法的權力都比民進黨團來的高那我的瞭解的立場很簡單就是我們台灣是法治的國家我們行政權是受立法權來規範的 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5569.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5593.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們現在在處理的過程當中如果是屬於可以被授權的行政規範的話內政部可以主導的部分內政部來主導所以你就是被行政院授權的嘛內政部如果不能主導因為它跨部會所謂的兩岸人民關係條例的主管機關是入委會我們內政部是國級跟部級那我們一定要讓行政院來做它的解釋機關那如果不行的話目前看起來行政院的解釋就是偏剛剛部長的講法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5594.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5597.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
要不然你也沒有辦法這麼流暢的把它講成經濟學我們按照他給我們的公文每一個字每一個字幾句真說而且不是我個人的主張是我們內政部的法治單位跟我們的主管單位的主張把它寫成白紙黑字的做法否則公務員無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5619.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5643.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我這一段質詢我讓你講很長的一段時間你總得讓我把我們的說法講清楚其實本席的概念無他你中央政府現在是行政院的含釋我們就當成是行政院的詮釋他如果他這樣的主張他有這樣子的一個說法這個當然大家可以尊重但是問題就是說其他的部分請你比照辦理不要做半套吃自助餐這樣子好像不太好好不好這本席的立場就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5643.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5651.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那希望這個題目可能才剛開始那未來不管是昨天長怎麼去講甚至賴總統怎麼去講這我們就看著辦好這是第一個題目第二個題目是財務法這個題目就剛剛部長在臉書上的說法跟你剛剛在答詢的說法這個落差就蠻大的因為你在這個臉書的說法是直接講說預算會減少28%然後很遺憾這些東西要不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5669.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5692.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
你們的臉書的寫法是比較強硬的可是剛剛在回答好幾位委員的質詢的時候你又講這只是可能那到底是可能還是確定報告委員114年的部分如果行政院的三讀通過整個行政院的計畫的話那114年的所有的預算就是按照我們委員會審查或者是到立法院的院會審查的結果這樣處理是按照審查的結果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5692.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5714.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
但是我要跟委員報告財化法通過在去年年底的時候我們的會計單位他會設算因為大家都知道我們設算概算都要前九個月前十個月他就會想說如果不是一百一十四年是一百一十五年的部分所以到時候就有一個二十八趴的這個說法這個討論很多次了是的但是部長這個你有接收到來自於上面的指令嗎說會看二十八趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5715.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5733.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我們是按照主計處告訴我們說設算28%的狀況之下去設算一下但是並沒有說什麼時候要設出來你知道上禮拜在財政委員會討論的時候不管是行政院的副秘書長或者是上禮拜在這邊行政院的秘書長包含這個主計都講說沒有要刪除28%這件事你知道這回事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5738.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5751.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我想28%刪除這件事情不是用刪除應該是說比例上的分配會分配到地方政府不是用刪除那為什麼你在內政部的臉書上你可以講說這些東西我們要被迫減少他如果不是刪除為什麼叫被迫減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5752.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5767.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
被迫減少就是內政部的預算被迫28%不見了可能會到地方政府去啊你現在又講可能你在臉書上你講我們被迫要削減了你可沒有講可能所以我剛有跟徐委員回答說我回去檢討一下我們在臉書上面的減持用字 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5768.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5793.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你現在又要檢討遣職用制是真的是這樣子報告委員我們在處理預算的過程當中本來就是會有一來一往然後三讀通過時候的三讀通過的版本那現在如果說大院跟行政院已經都我不知道溝通好協調好沒有就是說114年是按照原來的部分那這件事情對我們來講就是我們在去年年底發布的時候太快 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5794.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5811.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好那既然太快的話我們就願意檢討那個潛池用字就這樣你要檢討潛池用字我們希望盡快看到這一篇臉書貼文的文字修正啦這個你要檢討幾個我就隨便舉個例子比如說這段時間國土署當然很支持我們桃園通過一條便衣道路的這樣子的一個經費那他就特別去講如果因為財務法有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5812.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5829.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那缺少的部分其實要有地方的增加的統籌分配款來補助其實這就是一個比較健康的對話因為這個東西一定會事前調整這本席完全理解不太可能你中央少了一大塊三千多億的預算然後這個你要自己把這個錢變出來然後地方什麼都不增加不對的這是調整補助比例嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5830.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5853.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
原本來73開的可能變成55開可能變成這樣的狀況這些調整都合理但是怎麼樣來...可是是按照地方政府五級的制度來做調整對啦 你會有一套調整規則 這我們都理解所以說新的法上路之後一定會磨合一段時間然後哪些項目做哪些調整才會比較明確你如果在這些項目確定之後你再來發臉書說哪些地方有可能會影響可能影響來自於地方政府不願意配合或怎麼樣那大家情有可原 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5854.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5869.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
但是在這個東西還沒出來之前我希望內政部謹言慎行好不好財化法部分是這樣最後一個那個國家公園法今天的主題啊這個院版什麼時候會出來我只問這個問題就好了我剛剛有提到我們現在比較大的困擾那個交通部跟農業部大概比較不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5870.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5874.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
問題就是罰則比較不是問題還有裡面有牽涉到原住民的狩獵的部分另外我們還有國土計畫法裡面的保育的問題會比較困擾一點我想這個我們會清楚我們盡量在今年會提出到大院今年會提出來是嗎如果是今年的話這本席倒是蠻樂觀其成的希望盡速來執行希望今年我們可以把國家公民法好久沒修正來做一次徹底的檢討可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5895.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5898.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好 謝謝部長 不好意思當作私下了 謝謝好 謝謝劉許廷委員 再來我們請李柏毅委員部長先休息了部長先休息一下齁來我先請董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5914.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5933.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
今天修法的這個內容主要針對這個國家公園那我跟次長在這個會期其實在張昭偉的協助下我們就已經去這個柴山國家自然公園有去做了一個會刊那這個公園現在也已經好了但是我後面還有一些相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5934.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5955.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
爭取就是陳其邁市長也拜託我啦說我們是不是可以跟部長這邊來爭取一下那大概是這樣子那一天我們也去走了不過董事長沒去我是在會刊之後我們會刊之後的一個禮拜這個我們署長有去啦那我們去從這個翠華路這邊因為高雄市政府做了一個翠華路的拓寬然後我們從翠華路 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5956.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5984.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
國家自然公園的這個路口那我們走上去從最南邊走到最北邊最北邊可以看什麼可以看TSMC可以看台積電目前有兩個廠第一個廠那一天正在做基台的這個移入那第二廠第三廠現在甚至第四廠第五廠都已經今年要動工了那這一條步道呢未來會很多人來朝聖那所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5985.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6010.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我們希望來整理這個步道讓這個步道可以更加的除了保存它自然的風貌以外那也可以有一個點可以去看在半屏山上看護國神山這個景點來 次長什麼時候可以邀請你來跟我去這個議座只要提出時間我們全力配合好 這個其實我等一下會邀請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6012.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6033.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那針對部長剛剛講的有一個內容就是近五年來其實我也做了整理近五年來在國家公園有一些風災的時候其實如果在風災的期間那還是有這些登山客進入國家自然公園等等的那我們要跟包含農業部林務局 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6034.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6041.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
等等來做這些搜救等等其實對於國家資源的耗費也都是非常耗費那我整理了從109年到113年也是從20212020到2024年每一個風災其實多少都有耗費掉一些這些災害的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6052.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6064.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這些搜救的人次所以我們等一下在立法裡面也希望院版剛剛部長有明示說可以在今年提出來那希望院版也可以把這個部分也放進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6066.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6085.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
跟委員報告那麼有關於這個在颱風期間很多民眾擅自入園或者是說造成我們救援上的困難我們希望的確把它也明確入法做一個明確的罰則因為這個涉及到國家資源的浪費我們希望能夠大家能夠遵守法令好謝謝那我們請竹江上場請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6095.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6109.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
剛剛幾位國民黨委員針對財化法之後內政部在臉書上面有說可能會影響到多少的內政部轄管的預算裡面我這樣形容 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6111.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6140.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個文字修正,如果是我要吵架來修正,是這樣修正我認為修正說,因國民黨委員要求在財化法裡面分掉3753億的預算影響到內政部,可能影響到內政部的這些相關的預算我們可能要做出下列調整但因國民黨委員要求因為事情還沒發生,所以我們必須要做以下修正但是我現在不是要吵架,所以我也不會建議這樣修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6141.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6161.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我這樣子具體的來跟部長討論一下財化法我來講這個延續型的計畫好了就國土署的延續型計畫裡面最關民生議題的兩個議題一個是租金補貼一個是社宅興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6163.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6186.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
對高雄來講租金補貼高雄這次財化法號稱拿到245億但是是六讀比例最小高雄市在去年度的租金補貼一共補貼了9萬戶也就是36億那就是245億裡面的36億要不要交給高雄市政府來處理這可以跟市政府談 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6188.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6216.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
但如果說這個社宅興建要跟市政府談陳其邁市長一定不要因為你變相是處罰高雄市政府積極推動社宅你要叫高雄市政府用全額來支付這個社宅我覺得這個就是確實要來討論的我舉一個對比的例子台中市拿到262億但是他的租金補貼發了61億那這一部分要不要來大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6216.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6242.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
平等六都的租金補貼全部交由六都來支付新北市拿了374億租金補貼拿了50必須要付56億這合不合理要不要拿來這裡來討論我覺得這個才是在中央被地方被財化法修法影響下分到地方3000多億之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6243.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6254.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那市權應不應該做一個整體的調整也就是租金補貼以及這個社宅的部分要不要跟地方來做一個協調這個是不是請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6255.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6273.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好謝謝委員的指教我想租金補貼的部分不管中央政府跟地方政府都非常努力最主要是要減少我們的租入弱勢族群的人也就是所謂的居住正義那在110年以前它的執行模式是中央負擔75%地方負擔25%但是到112年113年到目前的114年我們都是由中央全額負擔也是負擔百分之百 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6285.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6296.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那如果未來的財政收支劃分法要在115年做改變讓地方可以下售更多的其他財源的時候我們就會建議所謂的租金補貼回歸到110年以前的75比25 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6302.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6328.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
也就是現在六都裡面不管包括台北、新北、桃園、台中、高雄他們的現在的這個財力的規範大概是二級以上可以回歸到75比25的比例這樣子降低比較好謝謝部長這麼理性其實財劃法其實就是先把錢拿走也不管事所以這是一個非常畸形的修法雖然目前到今年度現在已經1月6號 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6330.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6358.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
1月6號那去年通過的財化法目前財委會沒有送到行政院過去那所以說這部法令到底什麼時候要實施我們也不知道那實施之後如果在發布之前那我們內政部是不是可以趕快來找地方來做這一些相關的研議跟討論讓社會可以接受說地方拿走這3000多億那地方要做什麼事情這樣合理那中央還可以做什麼事情合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6358.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6386.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
可能很多部會都要了這個在補貼給地方政府大概除了內政部的一些相關的生活圈道路或人行道或者是租金補貼等等以外交通部恐怕也不少所以我們很希望說能夠結長補短而不是多的越多少的越少反而造成這個貧富差距我昨天碰到馬祖縣政府的縣長他說他設算了一下他覺得說新的財政收支劃分法對他們不一定是有利 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6387.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6407.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
他不是多了幾十億嗎對啊但是他有說過因為裡面有包括特別統籌分配款或者是我們中央跟地方政府的比例原則再加上現在很多退休人員他在哪個地方退休就會領那個縣市政府的退休金那這個如果大家都把價碼拉高的話他們那個馬祖縣政府其實財力的負擔會更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6409.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6417.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
是謝謝部長一個不合理的一個立法院不合理的修法讓行政部門要來補破網我覺得我們還是更積極的去處理謝謝好請黃婕蕙好謝謝主席我們請劉部長好請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6439.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6455.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
委員好部長好 其實今天大家還是在談論財化法因為財化法到現在其實都還是所有縣市那所有人民最關心會不會受到影響的一個修法那我在這邊還是要再次的來幫高雄講話其實我這幾天的質詢每一場都還是講財化法就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6460.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6485.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這件事情對高雄實在是影響太大了因為大家知道說高雄是全國增幅最低的那其實剛剛部長也有提到說不只是高雄就連馬祖縣的縣長就是連江縣的縣長都也覺得說這個修下去對他們不一定有利關鍵在哪裡就是當這個市權如果回到地方到時候他們要自己要多支付的可能比他們拿到的補貼還多請問是這個意思嗎 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6488.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6512.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
是我想大家都知道這個財化法叫做財政收支劃分法的話不是中央政府就是地方政府要收跟支那所以這次的修法裡面呢我們很希望說中央政府要跟地方政府在這個立法院可以授權的原則之下呢去好好談論一下就是未來大家要分配的財源怎麼樣處理所以我剛剛跟很多委員在回應的時候就是我們的設算是 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6513.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6529.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
未來如果按照新的財化法的時候可能在115年會產生這樣子的結果但是呢我們這個設算的基礎並沒有去找地方政府因為地方政府他們也第一個大部分的地方政府都已經通過地方議會的預算114年的地方預算已經通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6532.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6556.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那如果114年中央政府沒有通過的時候他們可能有一大筆從中央要補貼或者是要這個按照比例給他們這個地方會落空那兩頭空的結果就會耽擱到預算的執行也會耽擱到業務費人事費甚至是很多是屬於公共設施的經費那這個部分呢有待這個大院跟行政單位或是地方政府一起來討論那我們按照這樣的討論結果一起來執行因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6561.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6579.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
讓全國的人民可以有享有我們預算裡面能夠執行的公共設施的成果才是我們最大的願望謝謝部長的說明我覺得這件事情其實部長也點出一個重點財政收支劃分法是中央跟地方政府大家要共同來商議的可是在立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6580.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6601.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
都沒有任何的討論就這樣貿然的三讀通過就造成了三讀通過大家才開始要檢討說到底是出了什麼問題這其實也是變成所有縣市政府的困擾所以我真的在這邊還是希望啦再次呼籲有機會的話大家重新坐下來談重新把過去在立法院還沒有談到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6602.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6623.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
本來應該就要先談才處理的重新再來檢討一次市權跟錢到底要怎麼分配那其實我還是要講一下高雄的重點因為當然很感謝部長第一時間就試算出高雄還有全台灣各縣市有可能受到的影響那在我的選區我關心的是其實內政部在高雄我的選區有幾個包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6626.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6642.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
清閒好事 興盛好事都是正在興建以及剛絕標要開始準備要動工的社宅那我很擔心說財化法照這樣下去照國民黨這麼惡劣的版本下去是不是會影響到我們高雄市民的權益啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6643.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6657.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們社宅興建的進度跟未來是不是有沒有有沒有可能會蓋不下去啊這個是我最擔心的可不可以請部長來跟我們回應一下照這樣的才華法下去我們選區的社宅到底會不會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6659.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6683.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
報告委員理論上我們會希望已經動工就表示已經開始發生預算的執行那我們希望就維持不要動但是新興的就是都還沒有動工都還沒有報任何這個開工的話可能會受到影響那那個委員所主張的這兩個部分我們回去查一下如果他已經有動工興建的話我們希望按照原來的進度走 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6684.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6706.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
按照原來預算執行來走但是新興的確實會受到很大的影響這也是我們非常必須要面對的一個挑戰因為全台灣現在的這個社會住宅的興建大概是12萬戶到13萬戶那未來還會有12萬戶的部分所以我們可能也因為預算受影響之後可能會來做比較大的這個改換 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6708.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6730.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
譬如說我們以老宅都更或者其他的方式來處理有關社宅興建因為無論怎麼樣能夠照顧居住弱勢的這個年輕族群或者弱勢族群還是我們最大的願望那我們會在這個有限的預算之下呢會做最大的發揮但是要讓我們有時間來做比較精準的這個設算比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6731.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6759.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好謝謝部長的回應所以我還是在這邊幫我的選區說一下話啦除了剛剛這兩個社長還有租金補貼其實也是我的選區非常容易遇到的問題就目前為止其實高雄可以一戶拿到的可能是三千二到五千之間那可能看他的個人的狀況那我照剛剛部長的意思是說希望說這個市權分下去中央七成五地方要自己掏兩成五是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6760.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6786.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
如果 我一定要講如果 要不然大家認為是114年我覺得擔心的情況有可能會發生的情況必須要讓人民知道如果115年是按照新的財化法的話那確實內政部減少的金額就是會在這麼多的金額之下那租金補貼我們很希望說地方政府也負擔25%就是回歸到110年那時候的處理的方向但是這也是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6787.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6811.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
初步的估算那還沒有跟幾個地方縣市政府一起來討論因為討論之後呢大家要分攤責任因為分攤預算就是分攤責任這樣會比較好否則我們巧婦難為無名之炊我想您一定清楚不可能我們不希望減少租金補貼的戶數那我們就希望地方政府也能夠跟我們一起來負擔租金補貼應該給補貼年輕的這個居住弱勢的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6814.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6842.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好 謝謝部長的說明所以我在這邊還是要下一個結論就是叫國民黨這樣的才化法下去有可能最直接影響到的反而是這一群原本應該要獲得這個資源平衡的弱勢所以我最怕的是這個修下去平者越平 富者越富那需要照顧的反而沒有辦法透過這個預算的重新分配來獲得分配正義的保障這個是目前國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6843.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6865.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
修惡的才化法裡面最違背才化法精神的一件事情所以拜託希望有機會大家重新再把才化法重新來做討論那最後雖然時間到了我還是講一下因為今天在處理這個國家公園法那因為我的選區有壽山那我這個壽山一直以來都有遊蕩犬的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6866.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6871.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那我也希望說是不是署長嗎那是不是署長謝謝部長署長這個我們壽山的遊蕩犬問題拜託一定要跟我們市府合作來通力來處理好不好因為這也非常久了那過去也都一直法規其實也都在對 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6883.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6911.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們多年來就一直尋求市府的一個合作因為大部分的流浪犬其實還是在園區外如果園區外不處理的話流浪狗白天牠就會跑到山上去玩這個我們會努力好 這個真的要拜託啦因為這個已經造成我們周邊的居民非常長期以來的困擾那我在這邊一定要幫他們講一下那也拜託署長我們同力來合作好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6916.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6918.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 請吳志明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6928.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6957.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好 召委一位同仁來 部長 部長很主動我們一位同仁 大家好部長針對早安大家都在關心這方面的財化法有今天在我們新北市早安我看巧會也是在關心我在上個會期我們所推動的人行道四年四百億那你財化法現在已經三讀通過那本市還是關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6958.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6985.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
整個人行道因為在我的選區在我們新北市很多我們中小學的人行安全我們都從中央預注非常多到地方那未來才化法實施會不會對整個我們的人行安全的過程這個經費上的不足還有我們新北市有很多污水下水道 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6985.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7002.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
污水下水道的工程會用也是很多都來自我們中央那未來會不會是排擠這一些其實才會以實施下去本市也是非常憂心因為我們在內政尤其在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7003.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7024.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們國土署預祝了很多地方的經費會不會受到排擠請部長來說明謝謝吳委員的關心委員我們希望有這樣的方向第一個就是說如果已經有是延續性的預算的話希望不要動 延續也是延續性的不要去卡但是一定會受到影響就是新興計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7026.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7030.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
不管它是115年或是114年的新興計劃現在就是沒有定案那我們就不敢講它的比例分配是怎麼樣那如果要如原來的品質或是如原來的進度的話我們就必須要跟地方政府來談地方政府可不可以按照我們這個行政院主計處所說的級距啊譬如說這個新北市 原來是第二季第二季的這個財力分擔他們按照財力分擔自籌款的比例一起分擔出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7054.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7077.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那這樣的話呢未來的這個公共建設的品質就比較不會受到影響那像我們現在在推動的社會住宅還有租金補貼在我們都會區裡面這是一個佔了非常大的比例是的那未來呢你租金補貼你現在都是中央來支出嘛對那未來你要怎樣跟地方來做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7078.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7107.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那會不會也造成我們已經在實施的你說實施的已經不會受到影響那未來你要再租金補貼這一些人會不會受到排擠還有我們社會住宅我們現在整個台灣都在動那你新北市這邊那未來你要怎樣來做分配好 兩個回應啦感謝吳委員 委員在我們新北市這邊有核定的租金補貼的戶數非常的多是10萬4千多 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7109.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7113.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以呢有用到的這個租金補貼的這個費用呢是高達53億9千萬那這個是百分之百從112年113年百分之百是中央來負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7123.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7140.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
但是一百一十年的時候那時候我們的財力還沒那麼好的那時候是七十五比二十五就是中央百分之七十五那地方百分之二十五但是那時候戶數沒那麼多五億元在北方都了解那如果我們一百一十五年的財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7141.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7144.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
會把這些所謂的這個中央所需要負擔的額度把它刪減掉回到地方的時候我們就希望租金補貼是回到110年的75比25讓中央負擔75%那地方負擔25%但是這是我們的說法那我們還沒有跟地方政府來做比較好的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7165.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7186.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為地方政府幾乎所有的預算都在地方議會通過了那所以會影響到可能是下夏年度或是夏年度這個跟委員報告那再來呢有關社會住宅的興建社會住宅興建如果它是屬於延續性意思就是說它已經檔工過了已經開工了現在開始在拍電影什麼的那我們是按照原來的不動但是新興的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7187.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7193.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
要不斷崗、要不抱怨、要不撥起來的部分,我們可能就要按照新的採劃法,也是一樣,中央負擔多少、地方負擔多少,按照各縣市五個不同的級距,再跟縣市政府來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7202.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7226.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
但是部長你現在已經三讀通過了那你在這段時間是一個空窗期是不是趕快跨部會因為不只我們內政部受影響你連交通部以國防部任何部會都會受到影響是不是跨部會趕快來做統籌趕快來研究趕快怎樣來防範未來有排擠到的要怎樣來來做補強的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7228.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7246.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我想那個行政院的主計總處應該是會邀集各個部會或者是說行政會邀集各個部會來做討論我們會按照大院的指示來辦理好的來 還是要趕快啦 好不好好 謝謝部長辛苦了謝謝吳委員 謝謝好 謝謝吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7266.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7271.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好 現在下一位我們請我們張宏祿召委執行 謝謝部長 你先休息啦那個 次長委員好其實啊 國家公園有很多的人來台灣觀光旅遊其實都會選擇國家公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7295.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7324.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那我個人覺得啊國家公園我從之前我就有說有一些可以改進之處我先說一個很簡單的陽明山國家公園應該是去的人最多的地方吧目前來講陽明山國家公園人數因為他是都會型的比較容易到除了都會型之外啦交通便捷什麼的但 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7325.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7336.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
陽明山國家公園的路口 兩排 攤販難道這麼多年了無法解決嗎你可以請他們回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7345.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7369.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
報告委員在那個就是委員所提到的部分是陽明公園的一個範圍那這個部分我們跟台北市政府在很多年前就一直在協商有關移交的問題但是因為這個部分它涉及到有一些土地已經徵收沒有處理的這個部分我們跟台北市政府在就 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7371.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7397.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
徵收詳細的一些內容去做一個釐清在後續的移交接管的部分的過程當中哪些部分需要再做一個補辦徵收的這樣的一個處理後續會陸陸續續來進行我問這個問題不是今天才問我們不是要讓攤販沒有生意做你應該把它整理得漂漂亮亮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7398.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7420.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
不管你是用OT或是用什麼的方式把它整理得漂漂亮亮再把攤位你租回給現在的人也是可以解決我們不是讓他們有生意只是你看這一個是全台華灣的國家公園央行民生意都最多這是一個門面講那些理由說真的齁我都聽不下去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7421.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7432.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我也不是沒有在行政機關待過啦你要成功只有一個方法啦要找藉口有一百個藉口啦對不對這一個我認為是一個非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7434.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7462.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
非常簡單可以去處理的問題只要你用心我不知道次長你怎麼想好 跟委員報告我們目前會啟動羊皮山國家公園的通盤檢討然後會跟市政府一起來討論怎麼樣解決它的土地的問題土地權屬的問題還有相關管理的問題我們希望透過通盤檢討一次性的把這個問題我們看可以怎麼樣來解決包括相關的管理權限還有包括空間的劃設等等那我們今年就去啟動相關的檢討我們今年就會去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7463.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7464.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那要多久時間可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7466.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7492.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
跟委員報告因為這個範圍是在我們的那個就是管一的範圍內那我們涉及的相關的一些就建物的部分我們在今年規劃啟動我們的管一檢討的作業問你多久可以處理我們預計兩個一一四到一一五年會啟動這個這個裡面的一個檢討作業作為我們通盤檢討的前置的規劃你沒有回答我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7494.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7509.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
114到115啊我們在一年內會完成這樣子的檢討把它處理起來不是 你是完成檢討而已啊對啊 我們這個檢討就是我們會把所有行政作業的完成我現在問的是多久可以解決這個問題啊你跟我講行政程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7510.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7531.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
報告委員我來回答一下有關於陽明公園前面的亂象的部分確實全屬有中央跟地方那我們在短期之內我們就先跟台北市政府來聯繫一下如何處理攤販的這個問題我們不是說要把攤販都趕走而是怎麼樣讓他有秩序我知道我知道讓他有秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7532 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7549.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
不要影響到門面不要人家會覺得要到陽明山國家公園到陽明公園這麼亂我們來檢討一下那剛剛他們所說就是說整體的一起來規劃的時候給我們一點時間我們盡量不要再那麼長的時間要一年我盡量在短一點的時間內完成但是讓我們再估算一下再跟委員來回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7551.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7571.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 部長您請坐我必須要跟你們溝通一個觀念不是什麼事情我要怎樣怎樣我當然知道你要做到100分是OK的但明明就在那邊了多久了我也不是今天才說為什麼要特別說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7574.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7591.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
門面中的門面已經那麼久了那你可以取得雙贏的東西每次就是說行政程序跟台北市政府跟什麼不去做永遠有藉口但如果真的想做就做好了我講句比較難聽一點的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7593.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7618.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我今天我如果是行政院長我來跟你們說這個東西門面中的門面怎麼可以這樣我限你們多久給我處理好我看你們半夜都加班馬上就處理了吧跟委員報告我們這個月內我們就跟台北市政府來開會討論看怎麼處理那請速把那個相關的科技的規範跟運作的方式我們今天這個月內討論好那看能不能兩個月內我們就把它處理完 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7618.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7647.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好謝謝次長我覺得事情就是要這樣做啦但還有一個我們不是讓攤分沒有生意是我們應該要把它規劃你看國外人家國外的國家公園你看日本的就好了人家也是在賣東西但是就感覺不是破破爛爛的我覺得這個是真的是盲面啦這個另外最後其實國家公園我們有蓋有很多的步道啦當然是都在國家公園裡面嘛但 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7648.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7674.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
有沒有一個思考跟地方政府配合一下在國家公園的步道可以延伸的部分大家可以延伸串聯我覺得這個都可以去思考啦好不好好 我們相關的步道連結我們會跟那個地方政府一起討論也會跟整個交通部的傳導步道一起來做連結好 謝謝好 謝謝我們張煌路召委的資訊那下一位換我們行星雲召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7676.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7678.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
謝謝主席 本席請劉部長好 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7701.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7715.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
本來本席沒有要談這一點 但看到今天前面蠻多委員在提的就是有關財政收支劃分法三讀通過之後 內政部也有發布新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7718.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7743.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
但是我們上週行政院秘書長明確的跟我們說行政院跟各部會都還沒有共識行政院也還沒有下達說好 哪一個部會或是大家都等比例的會影響28%但是我們行政院就這樣發布新聞本席覺得太過粗糙所以在今天質詢之前我也要特別來表達就算有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7748.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7772.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我相信也不會是各部會平均分配反而本席要請部長我們應該要積極的向行政院來爭取爭取我們內政部我們該有的這個費用那內政部更不可以以補助民眾的項目來作為對民眾情緒勒索的素材 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7774.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7789.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
更重要的是本席也希望我們各部會應該要想辦法遵截行政費用還有一些過度腐爛的宣傳費出國考察費用一些管理成本要應該來盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7791.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7809.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
他的這個優先項目所以本席在前面質詢的時候我特別先提出來那還是要回歸這個今天我們開會的主題就是國家公園法的部分條文修正那本席要特別針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7811.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7836.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
这次修法有针对各种破坏山林的行为加以罚则但是会破坏山林的不是只有不孝的游客或宵小其实政府不当的施政也会造成环境的破坏还有生态的冲击近邻碳排是国际的趋势 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7837.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7860.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
本席看到內政部推動國家公園碳管理計畫配合淨零碳排的政策施行規劃在我們的遊客中心或者是國家公園管理處或是相關的一些廳舍或宿舍的屋頂停車場架設太陽能光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7863.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7879.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
这个部分我们还蛮有意见的因为我国的国家公园形态差异很大譬如说像高海拔的阳明山玉山雪坝国家公园或者是被海洋环绕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7881.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7898.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
東沙環礁國家公園澎湖南方四島國家公園或者具有歷史文化資產的金門國家公園這麼巨大的環境差異難道都可以一概而論裝太陽能板嗎部長我們這個要裝太陽能板這個政策這個是確定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7907.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7928.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
報告委員我們現在在國家公園寄存的建築上面裝設太陽能板是一個目前為止要解決如果萬一電力中斷的時候國家公園包括山屋他們會有自己的電力這是一個所以他是以自用為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7929.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7958.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那既然是自用為原則的話我們也是考慮全世界其他的國家公園是否有這樣的案例確實也有也就是說如果萬一發生地震或是發生大的風災的時候電線桿倒塌那山屋上面或是我們在非常高山的這種管理機構裡面沒有電的來源的話它是否最佳的來源就是太陽能那既然最佳來源是太陽能的話我們希望能夠在原來既有的建築上面裝設太陽能板就是只有這樣而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7958.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7986.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
有評估過一定要用太陽能板嗎因為太陽能板啊因為國家公園它就是要保護我們的生態跟環境景觀各方面但是是既有建築對啊你加了太陽能板上去就在臥底上而已不會破壞生態那如果環境影響評估沒過那我們就不會做所以case by case每個國家公園當然那你們現在評估完了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7988.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8002.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
還在評估中嗎我們持續的評估中因為每一個地方它的光線照度跟像陽明山它可能就不適合因為它的那個常常會被雲遮陽光不強 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8006.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8024.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對然後那個我們還有會涉及到景觀的問題還有一個如果他會對景觀還有生態對他如果會有影響我們就不會設那這樣其實我看其實能夠的也不多我們國家公園就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8025.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8047.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
畫色來保護的是不是我看就不要因為我接著要講太陽能板還有第二個問題一個是生態一個是生態已經有民眾反映那個太陽能板的反光會影響一些動物特殊的包括已經確定的是黑面皮露那個就在濕地那可能還有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8048.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8070.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們沒有我們還未知的還不知道的它會影響一些小動物或者是他們的生存你破壞了他的生態那太陽能板的這個反光是一個問題接著更重要的太陽能板的火災問題啊那個國家公園在這個山區救災很不易不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8073.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8097.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
是吧跟委員報告我們在整個國家公園如果要裝設太陽能光板就山屋要裝設太陽能板也是要經過評估另外我們的再生能源在國家公園內部的再生能源我們包括小水利等等我們都會去嘗試去處理而不是只有太陽能光我們的重點是要讓整個國家公園不是只有太陽能板我現在是針對太陽能板的部分那個再生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8099.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8122.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你小水利我沒意見我現在針對的是太陽能板我很有意見因為它如果一旦發生火災發生火災機率非常大我們本來就會評估適合不適合才再去處理目前有沒有評估中有沒有已經確定要裝太陽能板哪一家哪一個國家公園我們還在評估當中評估完可不可以把報告給我們我們把相關報告提交給大院 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8126.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8146.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
很快本席還要再問一下有關濕地的部分我們的濕地保育這個部分可不可以請部長可以跨部會的來溝通很快的本席請教我們新竹縣有兩處重要的國家級濕地處長知道是哪裡嗎對新豐跟香山濕地香山在新竹市不是新竹縣蓮花寺濕地您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8157.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8175.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這一個不是我們的重要失地,它不在我們重要失地的範圍那是不是國防部一直判你?對那新豐市,所以像新豐的失地,新豐也是我的家鄉,我在那邊出生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8175.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8193.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那現在部長這個新豐失地的話是造成了在地那個很多漁業漁民的漁業權的問題這個部分是不是可以請部長部長要跨部會整合一下你影響了他們長期在那裡漁民怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8200.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8219.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
失地的畫社影響了漁民他終生在那裡漁業很久了那你現在去畫社造成很大的反彈這個部分要圓滿一點跟那個委員說明一下就是去年年底的時候新豐失地的保育利用計劃我們已經去年年底是指剛過掉的113年那是上個月那個因為我們有跟漁會就是漁業署 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8228.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8233.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
然後我們也跟地方政府我們有經過了溝通然後那個新豐濕地的保育利用計畫我們已經通過了由那個濕地審查小組我們所有的機制都會由審查小組去做審核跟確認有沒有納入生態教育還有整個觀光發展的規劃有沒有對 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8256.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8280.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那我們的分區也是經過在地的一個同意認同那我們才去做比如說環境教育比如說生態教育將來他們也可以做那個生態小旅遊那本席還是希望對這個東西總是需要協同環境部經濟部一起努力那也要拜託我們內政部這邊積極的來做好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8287.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8288.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
好我們請張記該委員請部長跟署長委員好保定運用高站 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8315.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8334.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
很多委員都在問財政收支發文法醫療你們臉書上面PO的那個文他們說是恐嚇還是情熱其實我覺得同情還是什麼就是有沒有苦民所苦啦不一定其實你說你們說要減少民生政策的錢280幾億其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8338.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8363.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
你如果真的要砍人民的這個錢影響到民生那回過頭應該先檢討自己啊要不要先從部長的這個特別費開始特別費補定有嘛 輸定也有今天所有在的處長都有編啊我看你 我看預算輸定 每年有47萬的特別費啊你們每個處長都有啊我們是盡量不要砍可是你如果真的已經動到像你們說的要砍到民生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8365.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8393.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
報告委員您誤解我們的意思我們現在所講的財政收支劃分法是中央跟地方的財政怎麼收怎麼支怎麼劃分所以現在從中央減少的部分未來一定是會到地方政府所以我們還沒有跟地方政府了解跟完成所有的這個預算分配之前中央政府可能要設算下下一年度我們可能會損失的財源不是為了情樂全國人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8394.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8414.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
因為我們現在所要的公共建設都是要以全國人民的最大利益來考量而不是說錢不見了然後這個人民的收益就減少我想我們不是這個意思其實委員不要誤解是哪些可以節省下來嘛不是節省你怎麼節省到民生影響到民生的政策呢不是節省變成地方政府要負擔的是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8418.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8422.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
對啦 我知道啦 我知道你的事實你應該先從你自己可以省的對不對 可以走的地方嘛現在是兩個問題 不一定只有兩個問題預算科目不一樣 我們不能等同而已現在只有兩個大問題要解決第一個 你沒有跟上進度嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8435.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8458.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
現在行政院的秘書長 交財政部長 租界長的立法院都輕輕鬆鬆講沒有在明年馬上要實施嘛所以你太急了 你就PO了那個東西這是第一個點 你趕快跟上進度因為我們在12月30號的進度跟上個禮拜行政院秘書長講的部分大概有一個禮拜之差所以我剛剛有跟很多委員講說我們內政部裡面的官網裡面的文字的落差我們回去會去做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8460.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8469.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以第一首先檢討啦,跟上進度這是一個,第二我剛才在提醒就是說你在任何減少預算的時候,你要檢討是什麼?有沒有腐爛的嘛?浪費的預算很多啊,各個部位都有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8474.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8499.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
你像水電會就是太多今年中央政府總預算今年開80億水電會81億明年要增加到101億啊這當然就是用的太多啊人們也不同意啊這個去減人們就鼓掌嘛那有些不當包括內政部大家出國的預算那麼多部長我跟你講這個在整個那個草野協商的時候這個一定是統山一定會刪掉的啦所以你不要擔心錢不過因為還樂烈錢沒夠什麼270幾億沒夠我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8504.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8525.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
你這會理會議員啊報告委員您剛所提的這個不當的、糊爛的甚至有弊案的砍一砍要砍出一個三千億太容易了你不用四川那個民生了真的你要去砍民生回來砍自己從自己的特別會開始我們當然會檢討但是我也要跟委員報告水電費在公家機關來講那叫私底下給啦你有多少水埠的電端多少電埠的電端你不是一直在說省電解水嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8528.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8542.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
不是 這是媒體的問題 我只是跟委員報告一下說在有公務員他們一定是依法行政 依照規定繳交水電費不會多交 也不能少交要省啦 要省啦 柏定我來問你國土計劃法的事來來來 柏定國土計劃法現在要三讀修正了齁那怎麼樣 你不會提復議案啦 不會送到道法官去解釋吧 對不對目前我沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8556.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8564.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
不會 就是接受立法院的這個三讀修正的條例是 因為在立法院他完成三讀的程序當中我看之前你態度很強硬啊沒有 報告委員我們擔任公務人員就是依法行政法律授權給我們多少我們就做多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8572.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8597.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那現在國土計畫法已經在大院審查通過三讀通過的話我們按照三讀通過的原則跟裡面的部分來處理但是有一點就是說有關執法的部分我們雖然已經公告了16項但是因為已經有修正所以這16項要重新公告也就是說23項執法的部分要給我們一點時間要重新公告博定你發現這本國土計畫法修正裡面你有一部是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8598.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8619.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
第一個你也沒有事先好好準備好第二個你也沒有好好溝通你給他縣市政府跟民眾也不好好溝通然後到後來也沒有充分去消除大家餘力更嚴重的你也沒有因地制宜啊所以有四個沒有啊啊不人家也在問一個問題啊你本來信誓旦旦馬上如期要做對不對現在沒有如期上路你有沒有要負政治責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8622.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8639.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我跟委員報告一下現在新的進度啦22個縣市裡面呢就是桃園市政府跟南投縣政府還沒有送上國土計畫的功能分區圖但是我跟張善政市長還有跟他們在地的委員溝通過之後他們告訴我在春節前 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8640.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8652.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
會把這個桃園市的這個國土功能分區圖送上來那南投縣長這個許縣長的部分呢我們也持續在溝通當中他所牽涉到的部分比較跟國土計劃法現行的這個處理條文比較不相干那我們幫忙他解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8657.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8680.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那也就是說在兩三個月之後我們希望22個縣市政府的國土功能分區圖都送上來那當我們根據新的國土計畫法的執法通過之後那我們再來一併公告執行也就是說我們按照這個大院新通過的國土計畫法的相關規範包括幾個條文修正的部分呢我們都會做一個檢討來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8682.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8702.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
不是只有縣市長跟你有不同的這個意見很多民間團體或者農民有意見連民進黨的立法院跟你意見都是不一樣的如果是你現在過來你以前當過立委對不對你以前的立委劉世芳如果碰到一個這樣內政部長連跟自己的執政黨立委都溝通不良你會不會要他負起政治責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8705.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8721.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
你會發現你連民進黨立委連國土計畫法連溝通都不好因為我現在是當一個行政官員所以我並不願意回答如果的問題但是我跟委員報告我們在這過程的討論當中國土計畫法牽涉最多是農業還有農會 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8725.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8739.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那這個部分呢農業部幫忙我們非常多所以這一次呢有若干委員所提出跟所謂的農業權或是農地發展權相關的部分在最後一刻的時候呢就沒有把它放到我們國土計畫法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8740.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8752.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
因為我們認為國土計劃法應該是市農工商各種包括都市計劃都可以放進去那我們也很謝謝包括很多委員都支持我們提出一個鄉村整體規劃法這個部分對於偏鄉地區的都市計劃來講是一個正向的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8757.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8781.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以一來一往當中呢其實也是可以局限出來說在2015年通過的國土計畫法經過10年之後它確實有需要檢討跟改善的空間那所以站在我們立場我們就根據新的國土計畫法三讀通過之後做執法的修正然後再繼續跟地方政府來溝通其實全民在看你的就是你有沒有去傾聽民意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8782.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8802.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
要不要做好溝通啊 要不然就是不我自己說的不是自己管理政府的意見 農民有意見連你的民進黨立委都有意見我們有多做溝通現在是兩個問題第一個你要不要負政治責任 這是一個第二個請問一下你現在爭取到展年六年對不對你這六年你就好好去傾聽把事情規劃好你剛才所謂的一步是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8803.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8819.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
你這四個沒有 你在未來這個六年謝謝委員的指正 我們會來檢討因為剩下一點點時間 我直接就不用回答太魯閣的那個有一個峽谷的馬拉松今年就停辦了嘛我請那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8821.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8843.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
不可能辦嘛那他們希望明年辦這個太魯閣這邊要怎麼去幫忙一定要注意到安全當然這是一個國際的盛事啦很多人都希望可以參加可是一定要注意安全好不好另外第一件 陽明山有那個象天蝦那個有沒有那個湖啊每次下雨就很多人去那邊我的好朋友啊包括謝金河之前都說他進去那個湖過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8844.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8871.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那個要怎麼避免再進去,我看你們說要開罰嘛醫療那個地方的安全,避免大家去破壞這個生態,這個一定要做到另外一個,大家很注意,大家可以前天剛剛有看到那個野生的水牛對不對你們之前有提說要那個野生水牛每次下雨就衝下來,把那個農田都踩壞了對不對,甚至有民眾發生危險啊你們之前有提說要去做什麼庇護的措施,到現在沒做耶這要怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8875.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8890.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好啦剛剛我也已經說你們書面在回答他啦好不好不好意思因為我們我已經給你很多時間了因為現在很多民眾大家喜歡去看那些野生的水牛可是一碰到下雨那個真的老實講真的是危險的你是要給他個屁股手嘛好不好給我個書面來 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在黃健斌 黃健斌 黃健斌委員不在請黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8911.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8913.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
上禮拜我們處理了國土計畫法國土計畫法你一開始的宣示是要如期上路很遺憾上禮拜五 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8935.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8964.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
本院多數的委員包括執政的民主進步黨的委員直接打槍六年以後才要上路剛剛前一個質詢的委員張其凱委員已經代表了台灣民眾黨黨團清楚的表達了對於內政部部長劉世芳在國土計畫法你所提出來的政策立場清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8965.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8992.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
被本院最大的兩個政黨民主進步黨加上中國國民黨聯手打槍你有沒有要負政治責任這不是文官依法行政的問題這是一個政務官的政策立場你希望明年應該是今年四月如期上路本院直接打槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8994.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9018.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
對於你所要推展的政務啊立法院包括執政黨在內的立委都不支持有沒有要負政治責任謝謝委員的指教所以呢 有還是沒有我不曉得您所提的部分是哪一個部分的政治責任所負的政治責任很清楚啊你作為內政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9020.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9041.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
本來要求國土計劃法今年四月如期上路嘛現在四月還沒有到啊所以你今年四月要你今年四月可以如期上路不清楚不清楚上個禮拜五立法院所過的國土計劃法行政院有要提覆議嗎沒有沒有要提覆議那你如何如期上路因為在修法的裡面他有提到是十年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9043.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9064.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以你今年四月會讓阿魯齊上路嗎是嗎報告委員我剛有跟張委員提到目前就是兩個縣市政府還沒有把國土功能分區圖送上來那桃園市政府是春節那那個南投縣政府我們正在努力所以你的計畫是要春節如果啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9065.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9094.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這兩個現在是政府送上來了你現在的政策立場還是一樣今年4月上路是嗎報告委員法律上授予給我們的是有延緩6年但是內那到底是6年內1年內5年內其實都很難說那我剛有特別提到我們現在碰到的部分就是說需要把預告的這個16個執法抽回來變成一共要預告23個執法因為現在的新的國土計劃法已經修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9095.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9118.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
包括原住民要加入行業這些剛剛說過的東西沒有必要複述啦請你針對問題回答今年四月你有沒有要讓他上路我們會努力但是能不能達成目標不敢現在就跟委員報告沒有關係啦 上個禮拜五包括執政黨的立委在議會裡面是怎麼發言的是怎麼發言的今年四月我就等著看 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9119.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9148.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
看你之前所宣示的政策立場會不會如期實現如果不會的話你作為政務官的風骨跟政務官的原則我今天不急啊我就等你到今年四月啊看今年四月啊結果是如何第二個問題啊第二個問題啊上個禮拜台北地方法院開庭跟全國的人民公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9149.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9168.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
會開放旁聽結果有一群人要進去法院旁聽被擋在被擋在法院的鋸馬外請問這誰下令的台北市政府下令的還是警政署下令的人民到法院旁聽的權利要進去法院旁聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9170.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9195.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
進不去讓大家覺得台北地方法院發那個公告是在騙人民嗎是在台北地院搞戒嚴嗎要進去旁聽進不去那個時候他們告訴我說有人要進去台北地方法院旁聽進不去我要發生什麼事他們那些要進去旁聽的民眾被警方擋在序碼外這些事情部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9196.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9213.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我知道警方有要做這個秩序的維護但是...秩序的維護是把要旁聽的民眾擋在鋸馬外嗎這我並不清楚這裡並不清楚好 部長可不可以回去請教警政署是警政署下令的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9214.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9236.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
還是台北市政府下令的我來查一下好嗎權責要搞清楚三天之內回覆可以嗎你只是回去問一下警政署誰下令的嗎報告委員您現在所說是12月26的話那就很快可以告訴您是誰下令的不是我是說我回去問一下所以我說你三天之內回覆我可以嗎是好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9238.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9265.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
之前啊包括賴清德總統所提的司法院院長哦 被提名人啊我在質詢他的時候啊 詢答的過程當中他就直接講了啊說我們兩公約多次的國際審查報告都提到啊 極有法要檢討 要修正啊張文芬講的沒有錯啊然後帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9266.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9290.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
帶您看一下整個歷程我們的政府花大錢請了國際審查專家來審查我們的國家報告每一次請國際審查專家來的時候他們針對我們的集會遊行二法所表達的見解跟困惑是什麼啊表達嚴肅關切啊GU法為什麼還沒有過 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9295.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9302.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
第一次的時候是2017年我們蔡英文前總統宴請國際審查委員吃得很好照片都有出來大家嘻嘻哈哈的不是為了吃飯是為了要審查我們的國家報告最後的結果是什麼來看一下2017年 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9321.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9347.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
到目前為止 極有法沒有如專家在結論性意見與建議第75點的要求進行修法這是2017年的報告喔再看2021年的報告2021年的報告國際審查專家就看不下去了直接問啦到底是出於什麼樣的理由還沒有修訂到底是出於什麼樣的理由還沒有修訂到2022年2028號的時候語氣更強烈啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9350.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9374.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
立法院還沒有通過的原因到底是什麼在這個部分請政府說明考量到現行法律違反了公正公約第21條為何需要6年多的時間來釐清來請教部長可不可以跟全民講一下連國際審查專家都看不下去說台灣到底在幹嘛找我們來審報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9377.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9403.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
2017年就跟你講啦 極有法要修啊修到現在搞了幾年啊 就還是沒有修來 可不可以請部長示意一下報告委員 我想您所提出的這個部分我們非常的清楚現在極有法呢仍然是在內部的審查當中還沒送到行政院對啊所以還沒有通過修正的理由是什麼是行政院延宕嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9405.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9430.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
是內政部拖延嗎是行政院擺爛嗎還是內政部擺爛現在我在幫啊國際審查專家所問的問題啊台灣公民我們大家都很關心啊我們的政府說我們要人權立國我們的政府說我們台灣簽了ICCPR跟世界人權潮流接軌國際審查專家說 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9435.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9462.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
請政府說明考量現行的法律違反了公正公約21條為何需要6年多的時間來釐清啊國際審查專家請政府說明啊我們大家看了用我們納稅人的錢請來的國際審查專家提出來的問題我們大家都很關切啊但等不到政府一個答案啊您今天給的答案是說我們還持續在研議中是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9464.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9481.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
是這樣嗎是的你還要研議多久我沒有辦法給委員做一個比較明確的方向所以繼續拖嘛繼續混嘛下一次的時候要再找國際審查專家來的時候可能人家要再問一次啦要再問一次啦這樣子浪費納稅人的錢找國際審查專家來幹嘛來做秀嗎來做秀嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9495.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9503.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
國際審查專家問的問題你們也不回答事情也不解決就繼續放著就繼續放著這個就是我們現在內政部的態度喔就是我們現在內政部的態度喔繼續研議嘛 還要研議多久你也不知道研議到2028年總統改選會不會研議出來你也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9522.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9524.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
你也不知道嘛是吧2028年會願意出來嗎請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9530.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9553.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
2028年會研議出來嗎 請教部長你還是沒有辦法回應嘛所以你當什麼部長嘛你當什麼部長嘛連一個簡單的極優法什麼時候弄出來都無法回應表示我們內部有很多不同的聲音很多不同的聲音 奇怪咧奇怪 當初蔡英文提出這個政治承諾的時候我從來沒聽到啊民進黨說什麼內部有很多不同的聲音咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9557.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9563.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
欸 奇怪了 換到賴清德的時候 內部有很多不同的聲音喔兩套標準 是不是謝謝委員的指教來 葉延之 葉延之 葉延之也很不讚 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9577.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9601.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘經與發言完畢詢答結束委員丁學中高進樹美黃建斌所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位一周內以書面答覆並複製本會好我們本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9604.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9606.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
因為那個三分鐘的保険還小賬,一年來,一年來到現在 |