| IVOD_ID |
16442 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16442 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-02T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-02T11:44:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:13:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d2b89873ec9b2dea25e5a7d9476abbdb3529fa0cca45d5627aac46294e8a655b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長報告「推動『二軌外交』與『元首外交』（含『繁榮南島智慧永續』出訪專案與友邦合作計畫）及近期外交出訪之成效」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 11:44:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1823.104 |
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1830.873 |
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報告委員會初期委員11人已組法定人數開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1833.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1855.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第二會期外交及國防委員會第二十三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十三年十二月二十六日星期四上午九十至九十二十六分地點黃樓三零一會議室出席委員羅美蓮等十人內席委員洪孟凱等五人請教委員黃仁內席人員國防部副部長徐彥普及所屬人員行政院主席總處專門委員黃子漢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1857.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1859.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席王昭吉委員定語 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1888.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1907.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三 海軍司令部第五幕向下魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統預算凍結五百萬元案四 軍備局第十一幕向下軍品研發中野戰全身行動力外骨骼系統開發預算凍結一百萬元案決定以上事案報告處理完均均同意動資並提報院會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1913.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1935.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問在場委員對上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀報告事項二 邀請外交部部長報告推動惡鬼外交與元首外交涵繁榮南島智慧永續出訪專案與友邦合作計畫及近期外交出訪之成效並被質詢宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1939.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1957.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 介紹在場的委員 陳永康委員許巧欣委員沈伯陽委員介紹與會的官員外交部部長林佳龍亞太司司長藍夏禮亞非司司長賀忠義 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1971.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1990.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
歐洲師師長黃軍耀拉美師師長鄭麗成北美師師長王良玉調法師副師長許博毅國主師師長孫簡元國經師師長連玉平 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1999.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2010.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
國傳司司長徐永梅聯社會副主任林世新禮賓處處長陳欣欣秘書處處長陳景玲人事處處長黃麗玲主計處處長李佩華 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2029.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2042.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
支店處處長林啟文公眾會執行長蕭光偉NGO國際事務會執行長陳剛毅台日協秘書長范正國台美會秘書長邱高偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2059.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2088.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
領務局局長何振環國和會副秘書長石立軍台灣民主基金會執行長廖達祺本日會議邀請外交部部長報告推動惡鬼外交與元首外交及近期外交出訪的成效並被質詢請林部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2100.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2112.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生大家早 新年快樂非常感謝貴委員會的邀請請代表外交部就今天的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2114.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2142.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
進行報告今天的主題是推動惡鬼外交與元首外交以及近期外交出訪之成效那本人請口頭說明那相關的細節 敬請委員參考本部完整的書面報告那麼就總統的出訪就是繁榮南島智慧永續這個專案的一個成果基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2144.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2144.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
總統是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2146.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2173.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
就是上年11月30日到12月6日率總統府潘秘書長等以及外交部還有相關的部會行政首長跟代表以及媒體團員訪問我太平洋三個友邦分別是馬紹爾群島共和國土瓦魯國還有帛琉共和國期間並過境美國的檀香山以及關島拜會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2177.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2202.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
馬國總統海尼總統圖瓦魯國戴菲利總理還有帛琉的惠宿人總統等友邦元首及政要總統更是在馬國及帛琉國會發表演說也出席見證各項推動中的計畫成果豐碩具體深化我國與太平洋三友邦合作的關係這一次出訪設定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2204.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2231.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
智慧永續、民主永續、邦誼永續等三項任務順利達成了以下四方面的成果第一是深化我與友邦高層的情誼總統此行與太平洋三友邦均受到友邦元首、政府官員高規格的接待並一同見證各領域合作計畫成果有助於深化及鞏固邦誼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2232.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2250.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第二 開啟價值外交新時代那總統這一次的出訪成功彰顯台灣與民主國家雙贏共榮的價值外交成果總統除了與三個友邦元首夏威夷州長及關島總督密切互動之外也與美國跨黨派議長、議員等政要通話或視訊也展現美國國會跨黨派議員及地方政府對台灣的強韌支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2262.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2279.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第三彰顯台美緊密友好夥伴關係而美方根據安全尊嚴便利舒適等原則提供總統出入境禮遇通關以及全程的安全保護並於夏威夷及關島過境期間安排總統於機邊下機登車高規格禮遇展現對我之重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2286.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2312.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第四 凝聚海外挺台灣的力量總統所到之處均廣受當地僑民熱烈的支持以及歡迎成功凝聚了海外僑胞對台灣的深厚情感以及堅定的支持那麼以下在就近期外交出訪的成果加以說明那麼第一個是深化及鞏固友邦的邦誼那由本人在 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2313.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2321.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
就是去年10月以總統特使身份赴加勒比海友邦聖文升旗格瑞納丁慶賀該國45週年的獨立紀念日並 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2327.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2342.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
順訪瓜地、馬拉、聖露西亞、貝里斯及聖克里斯多福及尼維斯期間與各友邦元首及政要會晤並充分交換意見未來將持續協調各部會的資源積極來推動龍邦計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2344.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2358.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那第二點強化我與歐洲各國價值外交的關係本人與吳志忠政務次長分別在去年的11月訪問歐洲地區的國家那相近出訪歐洲議會那 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2361.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2389.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以及所在地比利時的國會議員還有立陶宛、波蘭、德國、捷克、法國以及斯洛伐克等國家爭取歐洲各國高層對我的支持表達台灣對自由、民主、和平及人權的重視並拓展我與各國民主及經貿夥伴的關係第三方面就是持續深化我與非洲的外交布局吳志忠政策在 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2390.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2411.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就是去年底12月以總統特使身份出席索馬利蘭新任總統的就職典禮或索馬利蘭新任的總統艾萊曼的接見並肯定我國協助索蘭與民主化、教育、農業、資通訊、能源及礦產開發等領域的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2415.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2432.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
最後是結語外交部將持續與總和外交的策略來實踐總統價值外交的理念與經濟日補落國的願景以及以我國優勢的產業整合跨部會的合作能量推動我與友邦的農邦計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2434.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2446.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那麼並與美國為首的理念相近夥伴深化經濟及安全合作共同打造全球自由和平與繁榮那麼以上主要是針對元首 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2447.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2473.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
外交以及近期的出訪另外有關於二軌外交方面因為韓社的範圍非常的廣也能夠補我們政府正式的外交之不足有時候一軌二軌之間也會交互的來運用有所謂一軌半在去年整體特別是除了邦交國以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2475.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2491.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們理念相近的國家對於中國崛起所造成的挑戰跟威脅呢也非常多來進行了所謂智庫的外交那當然除了外交部我們支持民主基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2492.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2520.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
還有非常多的國家級的智庫包括遠景基金會非常多也包括台亞基金會等都有非常多一軌半跟兩軌的外交尤其在台美之間也透過雙邊在結合多邊的關係特別是GCTF全球合作訓練夥伴的架構來延伸到第三國甚至區域性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2521.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2549.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
跨多國的一個所謂的惡鬼外交那這方面的成果非常的豐碩那在外交部所屬的這個我們NGO這個事務會還有結合包括我們的各個司還有外管密切的在推動有關於惡鬼外交那這部分再請委員這個指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2550.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2552.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝 那以上報告現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘非本會的委員6分鐘10點半發言登記截止 如有臨時提案請於10點半前提出11點左右視詢答情形進行處理現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2586.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2589.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝主席 有請林佳龍部長請林部長部長早委員早部長 我們這個惡鬼外交是台灣在國際社會中突破困境很重要的策略我們透過智庫還有學術界以及非政府組織的合作讓國際的友人更加了解台灣的處境跟價值觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2614.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2640.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那我記得去年11月的時候呢斯洛伐克這個全球安全論壇他有舉辦了一個台灣論壇那吸引了中東歐地區的這個政界學術界還有這個智庫代表來出席那這場活動其實是還蠻成功的展現了台灣跟民主國家的合作的這個潛力那既不凸顯台灣的這個國際的能見度可是呢同樣的在去年的這個九月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2641.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2662.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
瑞士智庫外交政策論壇跟我國駐瑞士代表處合辦了一個研討會可是卻遭遇到中國大使館的多次的施壓甚至試圖要取消我們這個場地的使用權儘管到後來活動是如期的舉行可是主辦單位是被迫升級維安的措施所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2662.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2687.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
請教部長面對這些施壓跟這個風險那我們外交部是否考慮成立一個專責的應對小組整合國內外的這個資源呢為智庫提供具體的這個支持那同時呢協助各智庫的拓展資金跟人力那進一步提升我們這些智庫在國際合作的這個能力跟效益請問部長我們有沒有這些的這個策劃跟想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2688.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2709.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
跟委員報告是有因為我們在推動總和外交也是要整合我們外交部還有政府各單位的力量那智庫外交其實在民主國家這是很正常的但是只要涉及到這些就是不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2711.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2734.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
惡鬼外交裡面的智庫外交或NGO外交中共還是會抗議但是在像以在歐洲來講我們大概也都能夠順利溝通因為他們很清楚其實在民主國家行政部門之外也有國會那另外就是這種智庫不管是不是受政府的補助或是民間的基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2735.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2759.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那我們現在就是跟外交學院來加強跨單位的有關於惡鬼外交的一個整合那原社會也是所以有關於我們過去各師在尤其地域師在各州這些支持的計畫或是我們派人去參與我們也是就台灣的所有的可能的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2760.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2776.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
還有相關的這些專業團體特別是民間的NGO我們現在也都會比較有組織的來推薦另外台灣本身也主辦了很多這方面的活動邀請世界各國來不管是凱達格蘭論壇玉山論壇還有各方面的一個大型的會議所以資源的整合包括資訊能夠好好的來 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2790.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2803.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
讓台灣就是全民都來拚外交來做總和外交的一個後盾所以我們會再加強這方面有關於資料庫還有相關的活動資訊的分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2805.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2820.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
也會希望智庫之間也可以橫向的分工合作一起因為台灣的外交處境很特別我們就是要透過可以說是全民外交的方式走出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2821.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2848.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
是因為部長你之前也提到就是說我們人人都是外交官這樣子的一個觀念可是我們在斯洛伐克的論壇的成功我們也展現了台灣跟民主國家這個合作的這個潛力可是瑞士智庫在外交政策論壇面臨的挑戰跟這個挑戰呢其實也提醒了我們推動這個惡鬼外交必須要更加的這個靈活更加的這個有韌性才能跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2848.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2863.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
跟這個元首外交呢相輔相成那當然我們今天還要提到的就是元首外交那元首外交一直以來呢都是台灣外交上一個很重要的這個戰略的這個這個工具呢那就像這個賴清德總統近期推動的這個繁榮南島智慧永續的這個專案呢都充分的展現了元首外交在深化邦交上的這個實際的作用可是我們在檢視我們跟友邦的合作計畫的時候其實也發現了一些挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2877.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2884.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
當然這挑戰可以做未來雙邊合作計畫的新方向首先我們要看到像這次賴清德總統到南太平洋群島我們先看馬紹爾群島我們有透過台灣衛生中心計畫協助馬久羅醫院成立的人工智慧機遠距 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2897.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2900.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
醫療中心這是台灣跟馬紹爾群島在醫療合作上一個很重大的進展可是我們看到馬國目前還是面臨兩個很大的挑戰第一個就是他們國民的糖尿病盛行率高達20.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2913.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2937.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那這基層醫療造成了很大的這個壓力可是呢他們的這個護理人員是嚴重的不足那進一步限制了當地醫療資源的這個運作的效能比如說我們所看到數據是畢業生臨床投入的這個比例是低於25%的那像這樣子的話我們外交部是不是有針對當地的這個公衛的挑戰跟護理人員的這個缺口這部分有進一步提出深化合作的具體的這個戰略請問部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2941.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2960.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
就是我們的跟友邦我們現在在推動龍邦計畫就有智慧醫療那常年也在訓練他們的醫護人員可是怎麼樣去取得證照能夠返國服務那特別是醫療這些中心 診所我們現在也推動這個醫院的資訊系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2961.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2981.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這些都是建構他的大數據那未來透過遠距的醫療還包括AI的導入那這一次的馬紹爾群島的一個成果的呈現因為他們的飲食還有整個公共衛生的環境確實是糖尿病比較多另外就是洗腎所以總統也有指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2981.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2999.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為雙和醫院是一國一中心是在馬紹爾群島負責的醫院我們過去是我們國和會支持由衛福部來協調相關的醫院能夠進行一國一中心的這些比較屬於援外但是我們現在是希望把它導入到包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3002.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3028.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
除了他的這個醫院的這些設備儀器醫護人員的訓練還有醫院的整個經營包括這些相關的資訊系統以及未來導入就是說像智慧跟AI遠距所以雙核醫院這方面我們就會以加強它的能量那其他像在這個土瓦魯是中山這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3031.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3058.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
中山醫院就是中山大學的醫學院護社的醫院在帛琉是有星光醫院跟秀傳醫院等這個必須要做整合如果不能讓這些人才返國去服務的話我們要派台灣的人長期住那邊當然也有困難所以我們已經栽培這麼多人才怎麼要把它做系統整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3059.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3081.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
另外一個跟委員報告像在帛琉的計畫我們現在在朝向的是台灣跟美國日本甚至澳洲一起來合作除了他們的醫院的這種新的這個園區以外那台灣在醫療的這個經營方面特別是服務的水準用這個方式來進行多國就是一起的這個農幫計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3083.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3106.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
是 但我們希望說我們的合作計畫都可以延續那當然這些我們所面臨的挑戰可能要先克服那再來我們也了解說像馬紹爾群島其實像他這個醫護人員的薪資其實也是非常的低所以留不住一些人才就像台灣我們有帶為他們訓練一些醫護人才可是回去之後也不一定會留在這個領域所以這部分可能都是我們要面臨的這個挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3107.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3120.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以我們就希望說既然我們已經要協助他們成立這個人工智慧跟遠距醫療中心這是一個很大的計畫可是這計畫能不能延續能不能推行其實有些挑戰我們必須要先去克服那再來還有像柏林我們這次也協助他們推行 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3122.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3127.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
一種國會數位化轉型計畫可是我們也知道說像帛琉它的這個數位基礎設施是非常落後的那也缺乏這個穩定的網路跟這個設備的支持因為本席在去年的時候其實也去過一趟帛琉所以它這些的基礎建設其實真的是不足那再來還有技術人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3142.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3163.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這方面技術人才方面也是嚴重的缺乏影響了整個我們是比較擔心會影響我們整個計劃的推進跟長期的這個效應像這個部分的話我們的有前期有沒有什麼一些計劃可以先協助呢在進入真正推動這個計劃之前我們有沒有一些前期的這個比如說它基礎建設的這部分我們先來協助像我們有沒有這些這方面的計劃呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3164.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3189.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
其實跟委員說明這一次總統的出訪我們定位在繁榮南島智慧永續智慧就是把數位科技導入那我們的榮邦計畫有一項就是可信賴的網路跟數位治理不管是政府的機構或者是他們像這些醫療還有相關的產業其實都可以導入未來的這個數位的科技那也強調數位的韌性那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3192.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3217.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
因此硬體有了之後其實最重要的是軟體以前是蓋了一些大樓但是軟體才要進入我們現在是其實整合先設計好所以硬體軟體還有未來人才那建構的大數據特別是AI的應用其實這些國家不大可是它大量的像比如說以馬薩爾群島來講它八成的人都有去看診的資料這個是不得了的大數據好好的幫它運用到智慧醫療它會變成一個典範 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3219.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3238.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那以這個馬紹爾群島來講剛剛委員提到那醫護人員訓練了回去之後因為薪資低所以我們現在的榮邦計畫會去把它調高我們對薪資的補助我覺得它是大概四五萬人以這樣的一個區域我們整合性的來去幫他規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3239.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3266.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
然後帶著他一起做所以這一次我們不是說他要什麼我們給不給而是我們整合各種的一個設計包括軟硬體這個把台灣的我們這幾年發展的這些數位解決智慧解決方案包括除了數位科技以外包括淨零轉型綠色的能源跟觀光所以會讓他們感受到我們是跟他站在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3267.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3290.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
要把它發展他們的國家找到一條最適合的道路OK 我是期望外交部能夠進一步強化向後續的推動的機制就像剛剛我們所提到我們結合各方面多邊的資源讓台灣在國際社會當中我們不單單是展現實力我們還是要展現我們的價值好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3295.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3298.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
接下來我們請王逸川委員上台質詢主席我們請外交部林部長我請部長部長 委員好這個看這個頭螢幕上這幾個字可不可以請部長唸一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3327.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3353.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
世界台灣 台灣世界好台灣世界好是什麼意思讓世界看見台灣世界好就是最好啦很讚的就對了好到不知道要怎麼說所以台灣世界好這個應該也是我們國人期待的目標啦部長你擔任過無任所大使嘛是無任所大使那幾年你都在做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3354.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3381.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我主要是在推動數位新南向就是我們有新南向政策我們希望把它升級到其實用數位科技來推動主要是以東南亞跟南亞國家當然南太平洋地區也在內所以我出版了一些書你不要一天到晚推薦你的書那個就是實踐的結果要把它理論化 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3382.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3409.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那你現在當這個外交部長你提出了一個名詞叫做總和外交那這個總和外交跟賴總統這個經濟日不落國大概也有大概這個相互呼應是那我們的外交體系當然就是一板一眼我每次到這個位置來的時候都覺得我們外交部來的官員喔 大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3411.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3436.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
請教都很正式大家回答問題都一板一眼那除了傳統的這個外交體系之外我想請問部長我們接下來除了這一個傳統的外交體制我們怎麼看待譬如說世界台商會看待在全世界有很多的台灣會館我們有很多的台灣同鄉會 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3438.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3455.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
很多學校有台灣同學會那這些台美人或者是台美人的第二代、第三代他們遍佈在全世界遍佈在美國、在日本那外交部跟這一些單位之間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3457.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3475.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
部長你會怎麼設定是 如委員講 因為以前我們外交部比較重視在這個政務啦那反而是僑務是僑委會 或者是可能涉及台商是經濟部那我們現在就是說總和外交就是說部部都是外交部 人的都是外交官 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3476.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3483.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那我們要整合因為我們有很多外管比如說我這一次到美國去召開我們北美的區域匯報那每家地區就總共有16個管處那這麼大的能量它都有轄區 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3492.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3521.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那我們有僑務委員我們有台商會其實這些人就是草根的力量他對美國的一個政策的形成影響很大我們不能只重視啊這個所謂的這個國會山莊或者是白宮在華府所以這個部分我們現在在推動就是subnational就是國家下面的這個比較是區地區的整合像川普啊他有很多支持這個MEGA的草根力量就他的條卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3522.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3537.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
很多其實不是在全國性它是在該州甚至城市下面所以您剛剛提的這一些就是我講的總和外交裡面除了我剛剛講的這個我們僑委會經濟部還包括其實很多的第二代的台美人 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3538.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3558.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
還有甚至是一些在文化工作上面的 這個也都應該整合起來變成一個總和外交的一個隊部長你知道實際上這些單位他們每年在辦他們的年會 辦他們的餐會 辦他們各式各樣的活動我們的外館啊 我們的外館都去做什麼你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3563.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3583.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
當然受邀就出席嘛所以喬委會過去是為主我們現在跟喬委會之間有密切的聯繫那我們也會把他列入KPI因為我參加過幾個啦我覺得那都很形式標準的SOP就是先放一段賴總統的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3584.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3596.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
接下來呢我們駐外館的這個我不知道那個職稱叫什麼可能是叫處長或者是那他就會上台大概講個五分鐘的話然後就開始進行參會 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3598.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3624.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那這些處長啊,我看他們也疲於奔命因為這些單位很多那每一場也都會有這些僑務委員參加可是我覺得太流於形式啦那既然要推動總和外交那這些單位的能量啊就是說我們在海外的這些外館啊不要都是人邀請,去那裡致詞去那裡吃飯,就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3627.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3648.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
大家都很累,處長住洛杉磯的或是住舊金山的,很多會都會邀請他們嘛那他們去就是,我覺得好像都一直在應酬,不好應該是想辦法,看怎麼樣把剛剛包括部長提的,這些人,這些台灣人,一味就是很有影響力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3649.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3674.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
包括這道在選舉,我選舉期間期,美國在選舉期間期間,裡面也有人選議員選一個小鎮叫議員、市議員、議員,他也很熱情在參與他們美國的政治活動所以這個部分我想外館看要做什麼努力,請部長再回去拜託我們外館的同仁大家及時廣義看要怎麼樣來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3677.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3687.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那第二個這個課題是說啊當我們在做這個總和外交的時候啊部長你告訴我總和外交嘛阿明也你學的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3689.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3713.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
你2025年編多少事情,要做總的外交,還是觀光外交要到觀光署編,我們只是開一個會叫觀光外交,我們開一個會叫科技,開一個會叫文化,像吳斯亞委員也提到文化,跟外交要合在一起。社交部有沒有特別編了什麼樣的專案計畫,要來進行總合外交? |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3714.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3742.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
總和外交當然是一個政策的方向一個觀念或一套相關的作為我們因為預算是319億已經編列經過委員會已經送這個大會要討論我覺得在於不是說新增加預算當然涉及到的一些比如說我舉個例子像在日本大阪要辦世博 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3742.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3767.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們是上半年 下半年呢我們故宮在捷克有百件文物的展出過去就是單一活動 可能一個部會在處理那我們現在就提早跟跨部會來進行協調那整合所有的力量 讓那個活動的效益可以更大就像說去年的巴黎的奧運 文化奧運都在那裡所以我們讓它的外交效應極大化 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3768.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3788.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那至於說雙邊啦 比如我們現在外交部的榮邦計畫裡面有一些是跟比如說我們涉及到的這些新人員跟探犬可能跟環境部我們就有雙邊委員會 有工作小組那觀光文化也都是這一些外交部到底是主動還是被動就是說你是要出來盜用這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3789.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3806.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
還是說這些單位他們遇到有外交上需要外交部協助你們跳進來還是怎麼樣其實我們因為外管就是外交部所以事情會來找外交部我們就是一個整合的窗口那與其各自為政我們不如變成一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3807.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3833.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
因為現在的一個效果就是外館有各個部會派的人啊各自可能他們各自向部本部去報告我們現在在第一線就整合在一起那現在行政院有經濟外交工作小組那我們又透過經濟外交跟龍幫計畫展開雙邊的就雙部會的委員會工作小組所以用這個方式啊我們雖然沒有去做組織改造也沒有增加太多預算但是把資源整合一起走出去好 這個很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3833.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3838.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那最後一個就問2028的洛杉磯奧運,這叫外交部有關嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3841.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3860.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這個很有關係因為我想除了教育部或是未來的運動部其實所有的出訪或是競賽外交部一定是在地在服務比如說我們去參加像世界衛生組織像是衛福部其實那個外交部外管很辛苦這樣聽起來你們都在配合在協助在配合在協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3866.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3893.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我是建議這樣啦 就是說這個2028洛杉磯奧運喔我們在洛杉磯有很多台僑啦 台美人啦 台美青年啦包括台灣會 同鄉會 商會 台商會都很多主動啦 主動喔 因為你每次出國去嘛 去到這裡洛杉磯 這裡台灣會館 這裡好朋友大家參上一下看外交部怎麼在洛杉磯奧運的時候 要有一個主要的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3894.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3898.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
讓我們這個選手去到洛杉磯比賽的時候就類似像這次去巴黎嘛對吳志忠 次長 以前在那裡也去創一個活動中心給我們的人最高檔的他們的廚師嘛 賭榜嘛像這種東西 洛杉磯的橋界啊他們很想要外交部支持一下 他們就開始辦了他們就開始去協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3920.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3922.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
做這些在地的協助工作,需要國家跟他們說,好,2028年,台美青年,二代、三代,所有的主管,包括有的去旅館的、去飯店的、去餐廳的、去蝦蝦的,有的做店長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3940.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3966.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這一些人全部整合起來我想會讓我們2028的這種洛杉磯奧運的台灣代表隊去到那裡就比賽的成績也會更好我希望外交部在這件事情上主動啦主動不要等那個體育署還是臨港的運動部來接外交部說哇這不通外交部幫我們倒三天這樣這個好過就完全不一樣了好我們就主動集齊啦因為聽台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3969.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3993.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個大家都看得到今年的巴黎奧運還有我們這個包括棒球12強運動是最能夠團結人民最能夠走向國際所以我們會把2028洛杉磯奧運當作外交部的事當作我們台灣人所有包括跨部會的事情一起來推動巴黎奧運其實我上任的時候就成立一個小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3994.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4010.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
包括宣傳面包括所有的接待還有以及這個涉及到的應變那這個是我們可以看很好的一個例子我們會在巴黎奧運的基礎上讓洛杉磯的這個奧運讓聽台灣更響亮好 部長加油好 一起加油謝謝王益川委員部長請回接下來我們請黃仁委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4029.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4031.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
有請李部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4043.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4067.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
針對這個南島這個共同體在這一次的賴總統首次出訪到這個選擇我國南太平洋的三個邦交國那當然這個三個邦交國就是馬紹爾、秦桃跟土瓦魯跟帛琉他的這個主軸就是智慧永續是民主永續和邦誼永續那過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4070.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4097.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
中共近年來在南太平洋實力越來越重目標不只是挖角我國的邦交國那更大的目的是在取代美國和澳大利亞對南太平洋島國的影響力尤其在2021年索羅門群島發生的暴亂後索羅門群島政府於2022年和中共簽署了一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4098.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4121.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
關於允許中國派遣武警或軍隊協助維持秩序的協議讓澳大利亞和美國倍感的壓力那因此本席認為賴總統這一次的出訪選擇在南太平洋的正確的決定那請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4122.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4147.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
部長這一次總統本次出訪有沒有和南太平洋三友邦就南島共同體的想法交換意見有沒有是確實從去年初因為諾魯跟我們斷交之後我想我們積極的來做總和外交那把三個友邦結合起來點線面 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4149.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4166.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
另外我們有設處的地方比如說像斐濟它也是個近處南太平洋的門戶所以我們有一個區域的一個所謂的到跨越第一島鏈到第二甚至第三島鏈這區域的一個整個政策那也確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4167.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4187.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
在Solomon Island跟中國簽了安全的協定他們把一些武警 事實上是軍人禁住之後引起了這些民主國家大家的關注所以包括最近澳大利亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4193.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4220.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
就是南泰的國家簽訂一些安全的協定這個是我們可以看到包括跟諾魯就是希望不要讓中共的力量進來所以我們就有角色因為他們是所以我剛剛提到就是說中共的使力越來越重那當然今天賴總統選擇了南泰培養的一個出訪是正確的那只是有一點比較有一點缺失的地方可惜的地方是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4221.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4236.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是在過去本席在一年當中我一直提到就是希望能夠重視原民外交那當時你也非常的支持希望能夠推派無認所的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4237.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4261.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
原住民的這些無認署大使包含我們在前任的吳釗燮也都同意我的想法可是在這一次的出訪賴總統並沒有好好的把原民外交尤其是南太平洋的這樣的一個島國做一個連結性因為我們在過去我們看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4262.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4287.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
在南島嶼系的這樣的一個南太平洋北太平洋這樣子加起來原住民的這個部分就將近兩億多的人口那沒有沒有實力的就是說在落實嚴防對岸發動外交的攻勢在地圖把起尤其台灣和南太平洋在太平洋島國最大的共同性就是我們都是南太平洋的島嶼那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4290.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4309.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
本席認為南安島共同體是價值外銷真正的體現是這樣的想法也獲得部長跟我們之前的吳釗燮的支持但很可惜在這一次賴總統在出訪南太平洋似乎不太重視本席的這種想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4310.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4332.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我跟各位說明我們是有邀請這個園民會就是曾志勇主委都有隨團那當然就是無人鎖大使方面我們是我想包括像在夏威夷的這個太平洋的這個藝術節的活動或我們在太平洋島國論壇還有相關的未來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4336.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4365.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
就是原住民的外交我們會來加強在無論所大使方面的角色對我希望能夠這個部分因為我們現在每曠夜下中共無所不用其極的要對我們整個國際的邦交裡面不斷的要想盡辦法要挖角但是我們如何然後打下更好的基礎然後鞏固我們的邦交這個也是要借用原民外交在南東語系的民族裡面能夠擴展我們的一些外交的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4366.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4395.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以這個是我一直提醒部長好我們再來加強好那第二個是中共攻台這個美國先摧毀台積電那這個就是過去川普在任用我們副部長在過去第一任任期的時候國防部副部長助理部長這也顯示對我們的科博級的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4396.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4423.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
現在任命他為國防部的次長那當然這個不管在他的推特不管是在對外都已經很顯示說如果中共要攻打台灣那就先攻打我們台灣本土的台積電的這個經驗場那這樣的一個說辭來講的話對我們整個對我們整個來講是不是要拿我們台灣做一個籌碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4425.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4449.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那作為他們整個跟中共之間的一些立場部長你來說明一下我想首先台灣要展現就是防衛的決心那我們當然會捍衛包括台積電的安全這個不容其他國家來決定那我想美國的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4452.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4477.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
人會關心一方面是希望我們也能夠就是有這個決心捍衛台灣那因為這個晶片是涉及到供應鏈是全球性的這不是單獨的台灣的問題或兩岸的問題這是世界的問題所以我現在請教一下部長你個人或我們的政府會同意中共攻台就摧毀台積電嗎當然是絕不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4481.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4488.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
其實這個柯博奇還有美國陸軍戰爭學院在期刊裡面就曾經有在論文認為美國與台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4493.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4510.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
應採取焦土的政策以半導體產業為籌碼威脅中國大陸如果中共攻台摧毀台積電破壞中國的晶片供應那部長犧牲台積電焦土台灣是否成為川普 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4511.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4535.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
政府的一些政策那本身認為可能性非常的大就算不是川普政府的核心策略那也絕對是在政策上的選項選項之一所以我想請教部長你認為這個可能性會不會發生還是可能會發生我是認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4537.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4553.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
不會發生啦因為當然個人在平常講的話跟他作為一個政府的代表我想這個他們當時的關係他是一個民間人士他現在是個政府官員我們跟美國之間的溝通也很順暢那這個半導體供應鏈是牽一髮動全身 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4559.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4582.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個絕對不會只有在台灣受影響我想連在美國、日本、歐洲這些都會連帶受影響所以這一點我想我們不可能去犧牲台灣的一個半導體的產業但是台灣的半導體產業怎麼樣去做全球佈局因應所謂的中國加一甚至台灣加一我們要做到台灣加N |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4584.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4600.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以我是覺得化被動為主動我們是台灣plus美國 台灣plus日本 台灣plus歐盟讓我們的供應鏈韌性更強那我們就更安全這個經濟安全也是現在我想在美中抗衡裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4601.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4623.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
涉及到的供應鏈韌性這一點我們已經跟包括美日韓之間也有FAT4又有這個所謂晶片四國的一個溝通的一個協調的機制所以這不是單獨的涉及到兩岸問題而已這是一個世界的問題兩件事除了鞏固我們的邦交國之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4624.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4650.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那當然台積電是我們復古神山的一個最大最大能夠讓全球裡面都知道台灣就是台積電這就是一個概念那當然我們極力外交部的責任重大就在於邦交如何發揮它的最大的功效這是本席提醒部長一下好 謝謝謝謝黃仁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4655.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4660.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
部長請回接下來我們請沈博洋委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請部長謝謝請您部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4681.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4699.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
部長好委員好前陣子其實出訪很多總統還有向部長都有出訪但是立法院剛好蠻多事情的一直沒有什麼機會來問這個題目所以今天剛好來問這一題我們可以看到當地的媒體都算是非常熱烈的報導這幾次的出訪不管是部長的還是總統的出訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4703.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4722.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那我這邊有幾個小問題就是說第一個就是我們的新聞一直在去討論說這個中國出動這些基建來做一些騷擾之類的那當然這個我覺得會有一點框架上的問題就是在於說他們一直以來都在散播說因為今天部長出去或者今天總統出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4722.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4747.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以中國這個軍演的這個層級會提高但是我看國外智庫的報導大部分都是在提說他們其實只是拿這個當作是一個藉口而已他比較大的一個原因反而是因為這個川普要上任了他們想要去測試這一個美國的底線什麼等等之類的因為中國有他自己的一些戰略上的考量那針對這一點目前外交部的這個澄清做得如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4748.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4775.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是其實在這次總統出訪前後我們跟友邦當然包括美國都有很好的溝通一起來做應處那我們也注意到雖然中共沒有發動所謂的聯合力建的2024C可是它事實上也有一些新的發展它的基建的數量另外就是在我們台灣的東岸用反聚酯它想要形成一個新常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4776.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4786.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
而且在這個前後他對日韓菲律賓也展開了很這個壓迫性的進入他們的防空識別區或是中俄的這個飛機的一個聯合的這個演習等那這些新常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4795.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4809.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
引起世界的這個大家的關注而我們當然出訪是順利成功是目標以外我們也密切的國安系統也都在這個時候隨時在做很多的應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4811.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4834.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那因此我們也發現這個模式我們也跟友邦以外我們也跟在台的駐台使節來做公共訊息的說明讓大家一起來應處這個新的中共的一個所謂的灰色作戰或者是它混合戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4835.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4853.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那在這個美國政府交接的期間固然北京也想去測試但是當然也怕這個有時候擦槍走火這個時候大家對於川普總統要上任我想都還是密切觀察中所以以目前這個情勢來講外界對台灣在這一次出訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4854.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4876.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們的這個表現也都是予以肯定也覺得說我們是一個維持台海和平穩定的很正面的力量反而中共是一個麻煩製造者對 我感謝部長這樣的回答因為其實中國一直想要定調就是我們每次的出訪就是一種挑釁那我們當然不接受這樣的一個框架因為對他來講他有約旦的談話也是挑釁 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4880.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4896.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
就職的這個演講也是挑釁你的出訪也是挑釁但他其實在這每一個時間點他都有自己想要做的事情我每年的四月跟九月他就是喜歡做軍演嘛因為是海象也比較平穩的時候所以他就會用我們當時的一些做法談話然後說你這就是挑釁 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4897.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4909.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
不過我跟委員說明我們當然一方面知道他有認知作戰或者是這種大外宣的效果不過我們也密切注意他會不會由訊轉演 由演轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4912.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4939.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
因為這個有時候也是一線之間那但是我們看到這次包括美國航母的部署三艘航母在我們這個周邊地區那中共當然以新的形態他沒有出動航母可是他基建增加那而且時間也相當的長所以我們也跟包括印太司令部我想跟這個第一島鏈所有理念相近國家就這一點上面我們密切的在交流以作為未來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4941.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4959.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
能夠應變的一個參考好那謝謝部長那我再問下一個問題就是說我有看到外交部來回應就是說過境美國這件事情那這個事實我看大概很多人都會問所以我不針對這個事實我比較想問的一個問題就是說因為這一件事情跟中國的打壓是有關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4960.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4981.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們今天就是說中國在外交上面本來就會打壓我們所以外交部在這個方面有時候會去回應中國的問題但有時候會是陸委會在回應那這一次我看到這一次就是以外交部的新聞稿算是蠻大程度反而是在回應中國的問題那這個我覺得沒什麼不好我只是想問說像這種事情目前跟陸委會的分工是要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4983.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5000.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
一到中國的事務當然以陸委會而主可是中國不只是兩岸關係還是一個區域甚至全球的關係所以這方面因為涉及到的軍演已經是區域性的所以我們也會試他們的這個動作我們會反應比如說我們外交部來發言當然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5002.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5029.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想以這個比如說這個內容來講這個外交部強調中華民國是主權國家中華民國台灣和中華人民共和國互不隸屬等等其實這個也都有他的意涵在裡面啦升高到 我不想說我們由外交部出面的時候就是代表我們政府的一個態度那陸委會平常當然在兩岸事務上他是主政的單位不過在國際關係上我們是密切的溝通協調跟分工合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5029.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5044.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
對 我就不知道說得很好就是說這是涉及主權問題啦所以說今天跟主權有關的當然跟我們外交部會是密切相關一定要站出來講話那陸委會可能很多有時候是跟一些交流啊文化交流啊等等相關的他們要做一些風險上的控管嘛因為對方要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5045.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5074.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這個交流來做統戰陸委會要怎麼去控管要怎麼去做審查這可能是陸委會的業務但是因為剛剛部長有提到像軍演像今天可能軍演跟區域安全有關跟主權有關這時候外交部會出來說但我發現有一個小小的一個奇怪的地方就是像這個我們在外交部上面的網站有一個叫做中國阻撓我國際空間勢力我覺得這個完全符合剛剛部長在講的但是像112年大概有四則 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5075.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5101.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那113年不知道為什麼只有這一則就是說照理說像這一次剛剛其實前面那一張就是這一個外交部回應的其實跟這個算是密切相關吧因為他們可能也可能會發動歷屆相關的軍演我的感覺好像這一個的事件是符合可以放在這一個113年的這個裡面的公告啦但不知道為什麼這個一直停在1月是因為後來沒有再更新還是說是什麼樣的理由呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5101.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5118.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個是統計上可能怎麼去分類那我們應該是有很多比如說涉及到中共阻撓我們在國際參與上啦或者是扭曲2758號決議或者是涉及到就是對於像比如最近這個中日之間外長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5120.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5138.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
的會談那個內容之前這個這個外交部長的時候是涉及到所謂一中的問題這次涉及到這個所謂的歷史教科書的問題那這些都是希望壓縮我們台灣的國際空間而我們也都有反應就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5140.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5155.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
中共在利用每一次的他們的國際的活動或是簽訂的這個聲明就會矮化台灣會扭曲很多解釋而這影響我們國際空間的參與所以我想應該只是這個標題我也請同仁在 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5158.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5173.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
整理一下之後跟委員報告因為是我們公佈的次數應該是相當多對 因為我感覺113年反而事件更多嘛對所以照理說應該會有因為112年大概四五折啦所以113年我感覺五六折應該也跑不掉但不知道為什麼它停在1月所以這個可能再請同仁去關注一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5174.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5194.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我們也要多注意就是公共訊息我也請同仁要注意所以我們自己發新聞或其他的有一些就是這方面的統計新的勢力也應該讓廣為周知就公共訊息的傳播非常重要對 因為我看粉專其實都有在更新這一類的訊息我在說官網是不是沒有同步對 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5196.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5219.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
接下來就是因為今天最主要還有問二軌我剛剛都在問一軌比較多那二軌這個方面我們是已經有提醒過這個僑委會相關的事件譬如說像這個過境美國這個剛剛外交部也發過相關的聲明但是反過來中國也聯合了一堆相關的協會發了一個聲明在左邊這邊它發在世界日報上面那裡面很多協會看起來的名稱其實非常非常的中性 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5220.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5242.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
像我們這一次去馬來西亞我也有去結果我也被點名了中國不希望我參加但總之他們就禁止我們現場去放國歌就是說在惡鬼外交上面中國的打壓當然是不遺餘力目前來講我知道僑委會有做一些事情外交部對於這種打壓目前的做法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5244.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5259.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
其實中共它沒什麼一軌二軌它都是同一軌啦它沒有公民社會嘛民主的 自由的 人權的這樣一個集會結社的自由那它動員啦其實是反效果我想我們總統過境啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5262.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5284.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
最明顯的就是蔡總統過境紐約的時候他們八起的抗議都還付錢而且涉及到一些違法所以現在美國也是在偵辦也已經有破案那至於說在於就是我們的民間的或惡鬼的活動他們一樣會干擾那會打壓那如果是在一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5285.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5290.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
理念相近國家啦我們溝通完之後他們基本上都會就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5294.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5315.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
對外我想不會受中共的這個脅迫可是在東南亞國家就是這個比較明顯像之前的越南最近的馬來西亞那我也非常感謝我們台商還有我們這些社團都還是很堅持但是能夠努力到什麼程度有時候就是會涉及到一些角力不過我想基本上走出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5316.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5336.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
就是就有希望那中共的打壓有時候反而凸顯問題所以我們應該講說這個過程啊可以帶動我們總和外交走出去我們會全力的來支持這些惡鬼外交NGO外交 吃苦外交繼續啦用總和外交的方式就是全民啦 都走出去對 那部長講得很好我覺得說像他們這種動員常常是反效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5338.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5361.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那既然它是反效果 我們應該把它放大應該讓大家知道這個反效果到底有多強我覺得讓海外的人知道說他們到底在做什麼事情我覺得這可能也是外交行動上面非常重要的一部分那我接下來本來因為時間到了本來還有一些民主基金會的問題不過我們兩個都在民主基金會所以這個我們就之後再問好了好的好 謝謝主席 謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝沈博洋委員部長請回接下來我們請林楚瑩委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5377.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5378.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5388.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5412.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
部長新年快樂 辛苦了等一下如果有問到相關的這些我們的就是業務涉及的單位的長官或主管再請你們自動上台是這樣我想這個2025年對於外交來講可能面對的第一個問題當然就是這個川普即將上任那個我請部長先看一下這個是2024年11月16號的照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
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當時是講拜登任其倒數那麼美日韓成立了三方的秘書處要確保這個所謂印太的韌性但是目前三張照片的三位本來以為只有拜登會換但是現在尹錫悅也被彈劾了然後石破茂是少數執政這三張2025年不知道是三換一還是可能三個全換 |
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但是對我們來說這是一個非常非常值得關注的外交話題尤其是今天您講的這個報告就是有關於這個我們的二軌外交或者是元首外交那麼想要問一下就是我們知道接下來川普就任的部分立法院是由韓國瑜帶領了三黨的五位立法委員一起前往那麼對於 |
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美台關係的部分那麼部長有如何來因應又怎麼來看我的題目很簡單就是美日韓的這三方秘書處其實他如果整合的好對於台灣絕對是正向的但是川普上任之後大家都擔心他現在不喜歡所謂的區域聯防 |
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他喜歡彎百萬,喜歡所謂的你之前也講過的不是孤立主義是所謂的單獨的建立交情那如果是這樣你怎麼來看接下來美日韓三邊的關係的變動那對台灣的影響 |
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是因為美日韓的關係是建立在條約或協定基礎上不管任何人執政他還是要以這個為基礎那當然政策的輕重反擊會有所調整這個也是每一位新總統在密切關注的那我相信有關於軍費啦或者是說這些相關的 |
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就是區域的這個安全的議題應該會磨合出新的方式建立在既有的條約跟協定基礎上那台灣跟美國當然有台灣關係法這個六項保證這個做基礎我們在這個基礎上我想這一次的慶賀團一方面當然是總統就是這個請韓院長來擔任團長 |
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那也邀請跨黨派的立法委員來參與那這個代表我們台灣就是外交是跨黨派那一方面也是要去感謝我想前任政府拜登政府他們卸任嘛他們對台的政策我想這四年來大家都可以看到不管安全啦還有經濟各方面但是跟怎麼樣去對接跟川普 |
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這個新政府因為他現在人事也都陸續公佈我們也很密切注意他們的政策方向那這個 |
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就是到美國去我想委員會發揮影響力我看到在美國的媒體當然報導不多但是有一個媒體竟然寫說因為我們派出了這個由立法院長韓國瑜所帶隊的這樣的一個超大型的慶賀團表示說是臺灣呈現出臺灣對於美國關係當中的不安那你怎麼來看 |
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是不安還是重視?很重視所以是一個重視嘛所以台美的關係現在就是持續希望透過這一次包括立法委員的前往包括王定宇委員是我們國防外交委員會的召委他也是台美國會友好聯誼會的會長那麼希望能夠發揮作用那麼你怎麼來看包括 |
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台韓跟台日個別的關係那麼你怎麼來看就是這三個三國之間的秘書處包括所謂他們的執政都可能出現變化的時候所造成的影響是 |
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那麼其實不管台韓台日都是建立在我們跟美國尤其是印太戰略的關聯那這個拜登政府他有這個所謂的小多邊或把第一島鏈的國家從雙邊的到三邊到多邊甚至變成一個區域所謂的網格狀的這個安全的架構 |
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那我剛剛講除了建立在條約協定或者是這些法的基礎上這之間怎麼去合作也有我們看到了這個Quad也有AUKUS也有這個Five Eyes也有這個G7非常非常多的這個機制那這些機制我們台灣當然是跟日本跟韓國沒有直接的 |
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就是說安全上面的這些條約或協定可透過區域的交流合作我們也進行了非常多的可以說是互動那這方面當然美國是主要的基礎那新的川普政府的做法我們怎麼樣去在這個基礎上去連結美日韓這也是我們未來外交部的重點工作 |
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好因為部長你看我這個題目一問三個司長都得要站到後面了所以顯然這是個相當重要的議題那麼因為今天我們所講的當然就是惡鬼外交是元首外交那麼在這個部分到底可以怎麼樣實質的發揮作用尤其是看到的是國際的變局那麼我們其實也要先提早做好準備或者是說展望2025有沒有預先在惡鬼外交部分做了哪些準備 |
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其實我們跟美國蠻多是一軌或一軌半當然也有透過二軌一軌半是什麼意思 |
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就是也有政府也有智庫或民間的代表因為交流大家分享其實很重要其實台灣為什麼重要是因為透過台灣是了解中國最佳的捷徑所以我們台灣整天被中國這個什麼混合戰 灰色作戰又什麼什麼這一些 |
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大家都很好奇啊台灣是怎麼走過來的所以我們台灣的重要性啊有個真正的中共的打壓所以沒有台灣去跟他們交流他們很難去了解說那台灣在第一線在第一島鏈的最前線我們是怎麼樣能夠來抗中 |
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所以是因為我們的角色很重要人家跟我們交流啦我講到抗中非常重要就是延續剛剛沈伯陽委員所說的喔當然如果穩定的一個友邦的關係包括友邦的政局或者是他們的領導的中心如果穩定的話對於我們政策的延續或是關係的維繫是比較容易的但是如果出現變化的時候包括現在美國由川普來當總統那麼川普2.0對於台灣的 |
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美關係現在部長是保持審慎樂觀但是中國有沒有可能介入包括我們知道的韓國現在的韓國可能的接下來的在野黨的這個所謂總統的人選被認為在立場上是跟中國比較好的被媒體認為是親中的 |
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那麼在石破茂少數執政底下那麼他現在他講的他要啟動的所謂的大聯合政府不只是自民黨跟公眾黨之外那他還會有其他的政的友黨進來的時候中國就可能有機會可以在裡面做干預那這個部分外交部有沒有注意到這樣的問題 |
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我覺得是兩個層次一個是當然美國的角色他在這個對抗中國的威權擴張的時候他需要這些友盟啦大家一起至少做一些溝通嘛那一起能夠來因應 |
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但是我們台灣其實在跟其他國家的這個城市上啊也有很多的交流包括我們第一島鏈我想不管日韓、菲律賓、澳紐因為什麼?因為我們都共同面對中共的擴張的壓力所以像最近從中共的這個海警啊他海警其實也是他解放軍嘛但是他做成了新常態不只是對台灣對周邊國家也是所以這個城市啊我們的惡鬼外交也非常的平凡那 |
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另外一個就是很關鍵的是因為川普的即將就任對一些這些第一島鏈或印太地區的國家也有不確定性大家反而更要交流這個時機有時候反而是一個我們台灣就可以分享我們的經驗 |
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那另外的方面就是說台灣跟美國的關係在川普總統我想他就職之後我們也都做好了準備他基本上是重商主義但是他主要是對於貿易的這個 |
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這個逆差他很關注所以我們台灣跟美國的關係是一方面我們會去做好包括不管是投資採購或者是這一些有關經濟跟安全方面的一些對話可是我想同樣的中國他面對到怎麼去因應因為川普應該是上任之後會去對他在第一任的時候中國答應的一些採購或是其他的這些 |
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會採取一些關稅的手段那我們當然密切關注這個就是屬於另外一個層次因為時間有限本席這一個題目其實我甚至於認為接下來也許國防外交委員會都必須要長期的來密切的關注這樣的國際政局的變化但是在二軌外交或是圓口外交上面慎防中共的滲透因為我們都知道中共在其他的國家面對跟台灣一樣的滲透其實也是著力甚深所以請 |
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部長和外交部在這個部分也許2025年是一個非常需要重視的話題好 慢慢努力謝謝林楚瑜委員部長請回接下來我們請王定宇召委上台質詢好 謝謝林召委 麻煩部長 |
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請林部長我今天準備的正題之前剛好我接到一個民眾剛過我們的海關進到台灣來他有個問題那你不用現在有答案我是說了解一下他說回台灣的時候以前都會聽到歡迎歸國 |
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那個好像被改掉了然後呢自動通關的語音呢變得好像中國腔調一樣是不是我們買的雞籽罐的東西裡面的sourcing出了問題我不確定因為這是民眾剛才我在上台前接到的申請我讓外交部的同仁了解一下查看看因為以前回到台灣聽到歡迎歸國 |
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還蠻好的然後我覺得腔調因為來到台灣是我們國家的門面我們來跟淘機還有移民署還有海關我們現在很多漁業有一段時間是out-sourcing到印度那個腔就會像印度腔我現在不曉得是不是有out-sourcing或者它裡面灌的東西出問題麻煩你了解一下那我回來問第一個題目在 |
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我們之前跟美方的各級的政要包含州長包含跟甚至於是美國參眾議會的重量級的參眾議員兩黨都有都有提到這一個避免雙重科稅的立法當時得到的答案 |
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都在國會重量級的意見領袖都說這個他們認為該做在台灣跟美國的投資者避免雙重瞌睡對投資有益所以這個是對台灣對美國都有好處的 |
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那當時說因為正在他們在總統大選所以搞不好選舉結束之後這一屆期因為他們快到期了屆期前能不能完成所以我第一個先請教部長避免雙重科稅這件事情對台灣來講有什麼效益很重要因為在遊說這個嘛總是要有效益嗎 |
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因為我想投資跟貿易是連動的以台積電去投資周邊的供應鏈要去這麼多的投資如果有雙重瞌睡我想這個一定會影響到美國去投資所以這對美國有不利對台灣來講我們要雙重瞌睡當然也是很不利所以沒有反對的意見現在是說本來要走的路徑因為從眾議院到參議院 |
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但是因為選舉的關係或者現在因為會期嘛這個法案要另外提這一屆結束的話因為他們眾議院就兩年一次就要全部重來耶對所以有沒有可能在因為這個對我們在墨西哥北部我上次看到統計是大概350家製造業者其實是有影響的對於投資美國甚至於我們我們在海外佈局經商的台商也是有影響的因為那個稅率很高 |
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6225.343 |
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你估計目前的進度有沒有可能在這個會期把它完成現在就是說這個新的會期啦如果開始他們是不是用所謂的快速的那個管道最後一個MegaPage他們如果同意的話其實是可以啟動就是說算是比較是綠色通 |
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我們現在接觸的參眾院的兩院是有國會議員有這個提議啦9月到11月去了解起來有部分的共和黨的參議員有一點意見可是他本身州的州長來到台灣我們溝通之後他回去說那是他的body body回去溝通一下所以目前看起來反對意見不多而且共識很高 |
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對美國甚至於對川普來講增加美國就業機會也是有幫助對台灣證明我們跟美國之間的重要夥伴關係其實它也有外交政治上的利益所以是不是部長或編寫師到底這一個避免雙重瞌睡目前它真正的狀況進度有沒有可能在這一屆的美國國會完成立法 |
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很有機會啊因為大家都知道他的重要性跟急迫性嘛那現在就是因為新的政府開始包括國會開議能不能用比較最簡 |
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變的程序去讓參眾兩院能夠快速來審查有放開那個快速立法律社通關的有這個提議當然還要看所以我們覺得看起來沒有反對的意見就是怎麼樣去做立法程序我們現在lobby的工作做得怎麼樣 |
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6352.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我看到的電報或者是我本身的接觸沒有反對的意見那也都應該是越快越好所以國長跟北美司長有信心來 北美司長這是別國在決定進度我們不能隨便有信心就是我們的理解是目前這個案子還是有兩黨跨黨派的一個支持的共識所以在這個新一屆的國會開議之後我們一定是你這樣又跑到下一屆重新重來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6352.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6377.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
因為這一屆的那個已經結束了所以一定是下一屆1月份開始開議之後我們很怕有時候到下一屆又開始丟一些新的丟了一些條文什麼的然後又開始討論然後兩年又到了目前都有積極的跟兩黨的議員在溝通那目前看起來這個支持也都還是在這邊的這個案子過的話其實對我們外交部長來講你的工具箱裡面多了一個工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6378.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6404.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
而且對川普的政策上來講兩邊其實是互利的那另外我們跟美方簽的BTA就是台美這個21世紀貿易倡議這個BTA就外交部的評估因為川普很不喜歡FTA他連WHO都想退出了這一個從TIFA到美台21世紀的貿易倡議所謂的BTA會不會有變數 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6409.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6423.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
因為它這個是美台21世紀貿易倡議它有12項它是分主要三個階段那個階段已經通過First Agreement那第二階段事實上三家一個項目也談得差不多其中只有一個項目當時還有一點就是還要再協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6429.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6442.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
至於說新的總統上任他對這個事情的看法他的USTR還有相關人事的佈局我們大概也有一定的判斷都是友善不過他的agenda是不是放在前面因為這裡面還沒有涉及到市場准錄直接的關稅的問題BGA還沒有碰到所謂的關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6451.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6473.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所以這個就是一個去健全化一個比較全面的經濟的一個合作的架構我這樣詮釋對不對這一個BTA台美之間的BTA目前已經有了大概沒有什麼變化但是想要再往前還要往前進一步還有待觀察對這樣詮釋對啦因為我看到但是我的意思是說我們在拜登政府內已經談到第二階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6474.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6499.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
除了一項還需要最後的協商其他已經都有共識那因為行政部門雖然是總統是新的這個他的政策的Priority或Agenda我們還要再瞭解以外但基本上大家對於台美之間這個把21世紀貿易倡議來推動是有共識只是說這個會拖多久政府上任之後三個大項一個是國土安全部對邊境的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6500.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6514.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
一個是對外外交的政策要強化夥伴自我保衛的能力的責任第三個就是經貿經貿是他在選舉當中非常非常重要的政策而這個經貿一個不小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6517.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6531.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
有可能變保護主義一個不小心可能會讓全球這個recession會提早來所以這個我會提醒因為你現在講的是統合外交經貿跟外交其實這要一起看所以我問下一個有關呂宋經濟狼帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6533.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6559.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
呂宋經濟狼帶我聽部長提了幾次經濟部也提了幾次可是裡面有兩個我坦白講重中之重一個是美國政府一個是日本政府美日政府跟小馬可市政府在呂宋島不管是四個軍事基地不管是港口的建設不管是造船業的進駐或者台灣相關的不管是石化業 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6561.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6566.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
發電的能源業或者是比較低階的半導體業這整塊餅 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6569.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6596.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
呂宋經濟狼帶其實這兩個captain很重要可是我們現在面臨的是石破內閣換新的內閣換新的內閣了而且他是一個minority算是少數內閣然後呢川普政府取代拜登政權也更迭了所以我必須請教部長有關呂宋經濟狼帶就你們目前的評估是為民還是繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6598.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6622.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
還是有可能這個要Drop it 要丟掉了它是這樣子 是在G7的架構下因為要對抗一帶一路嘛那這個由美日針對菲律賓有這個所謂旅送經濟狼帶的一個計畫那包括投資 還有一些建設那我們不是G7但是我們認為說可以以這個為基礎台灣可以扮演一些角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6623.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6651.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個是平行可是至於台灣人們參加呂宋經濟總監具體的計畫這要case by case來看也要對我們有利嘛我們能夠貢獻的當然那應該說那個架構是在的那項目也已經他們已經在形成其實從今年初到現在他們呂宋島的軍事基地跟台海安全跟巴士海峽控管息息相關對呂宋經濟狼帶所要發展的產業跟台灣息息相關所以跟台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6652.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6680.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
坦白講 這個比IPEF重要 比IPEF重要它比較具體那這麼具體的東西的狀況下如果因為我們重要的民主盟友內部的發生變化這個案子走不下去的話我覺得我們外交部跟經貿部門有責任要去了解這是兩個層次 我跟委員講一個是當然美日非的層次嘛 旅眾經濟狼帶但是台非也可以形成經濟狼帶尤其是我們的大南方計畫現在又有大西股 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6682.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6684.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們跟菲律賓之間的合作有風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6698.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6717.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
他的總統是一任的換了總統之後政策不延續投資跟相關的保障會有什麼樣的情形所以透過多邊的特別是美日這樣的G7強國建構的架構簽的合約對我們台商對我們台灣政府來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6718.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6744.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
保障的程度會比較高啦台非要發展當然有另外一條路可以走所以因為我時間到了我特別提醒不過我也跟委員補充說明我們台美之間也有EPPD台美經濟這個這個夥伴的對話那也就是針對第三國那我想台美之間也都認為跟菲律賓合作是我們的重點對因為這幾個國家第一島鏈國家現在政治上都有一些新局面美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6746.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6769.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
也有一些新局面其實歐盟也有一些政權更迭的情形所以當我們台灣在發展對外經貿外交的時候這些更迭的情形要很審慎仔細的去觀察而且要建立多層次的而不是只依靠一個方向否則一旦沒有就沒有了那我們可能努力了三五年的東西瞬間化為泡影這個提醒外交部那我們希望後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6770.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6779.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
也許這個我們可以做個專案報告了好不好好 謝謝現在行政院經濟外交工作小組也有針對這部分在進行好 謝謝謝謝王定宇 趙偉謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6798.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6805.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好 現在請林益君召委上台質詢謝謝主席有請林部長請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6816.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6834.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
部長新年快樂先請教部長一個政治上面的問題你覺得現在你比較喜歡為國家拚外交當外交部長還是比較喜歡回去台中當台中市長還是你有比較屬意適合台中市的人選呢台中市我已經當過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6835.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6860.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
對 因為我現在是看新聞上面好像說你好像也有意願想要再回去當台中市長是不是 我沒有聽說呢好啦 現在請問這一年來其實大家都不看好你這個一個外交門外和擔任外交部長但是從你剛才的書面報告裡面和口頭報告上所以部長你覺得你自己在一年來你對外交你自己表現你打幾分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6861.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6882.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我不給自己打分數啦 只有人民跟我的長官可以打分數不過我的同仁齁 我聽到的啦 士氣現在還蠻高的啦因為我們 當然我們對於外交同仁的怎麼樣去讓他們發揮工作環境啦 我們有一些改善以外部長你這樣有點謙虛 你這樣是連分數都不敢為自己打齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6884.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6894.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
對 因為我才剛上任 這個算是如果跑馬拉松 這個只是前面剛起跑而已啊所以不能現在打分數那你覺得你90分有沒有到 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6896.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6925.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
你覺得你的努力你沒有盡興啊我覺得還沒有我說能夠打分數因為其實外交也是累積的啦也是要大家所有的各方面來努力但是我意思說有幾個戰役啊我跟委員分享比如說我們在PIV就是太平洋島國論壇老共要把我們排除嘛我們參加了你看包括這個南非他要我們簽管那我們還是先挺住了其實今年APEC |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6926.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6947.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
其實中共為了要申辦2026它已經就是說用盡各種方法想法我們邊緣化但是我們還是把它拉到APEC來做對等的談判所以我認為外交是點點滴滴那當然邦交國我大概都走了一趟我們12個邦交國怎麼樣去固邦 融邦 拓邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6948.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6973.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們跟大國的關係 特別是我們台美還有日本 歐盟之間的關係特別像在2758號決議 現在包括歐洲的議會還有各國的國會也都通過美國的國務院也有很清楚的試點說明可以說賴總統上任之後他標舉的所謂的價值外交跟經濟日不落國這些政策方向我們有在推動中 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6974.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6979.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
看起來就是部長你覺得你也是做得不錯那沒有就是說其實我們就是沒有出錯啦不能講說做得不錯啦好我們一起為台灣努力啦一起讓世界看到台灣然後這比較重要是那部長你還記得三年前的四大公投裡面從蔡前總統還有蘇前院長還有前駐美代表就是現在的副總統蕭美琴前外交部長吳釗燮還有經濟部長王美華都大聲的疾呼說假如反萊豬公投通過我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7004.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7008.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
就沒有辦法加入CPTPP那部長我們現在回頭看那時候執政黨是不是講話講得太滿了呢因為三年過去了我們現在已經開放了萊豬但是現在還是沒有辦法加入啊而且11月30號的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7020.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7029.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
CPTPP的執委會落幕主席國加拿大也宣布了哥斯大黎加將成為下一個總會員國那台灣和中國大陸的申請都是被擱置的那部長你上一次在我們的委員會的審查預算也表示新加坡對台灣其實抱持的支持的立場還有但是前度不見得強度不見得相同但是馬來西亞也沒有反對台灣加入所以這樣你覺得這樣的結果為什麼會這樣還有我們到底有沒有機會加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7049.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7069.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們在加入中並沒有說被就是擱置或否決那因為現在有11加1嘛這個1就是因果我們跟各國有開始在諮商因為本來要成立工作小組才能諮商現在在加拿大當輪值主席國的時候他同意可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7069.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7093.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
前期諮商也就在成立工作小組我們就可以跟一些國家談所以我跟委員報告我們實質上比如說我們台美21世紀貿易倡議這個內容拿給很多國家看發現說我們跟符合高標準我們沒有不良紀錄那所謂共識共識是什麼所以部長你的意思是我們有機會加入這樣就對了我們目前應該已經有得到差不多將近一半國家都是很支持的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7093.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7113.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
要去成立工作小組這件事情在去年底還沒有成立那先成立了哥斯拉黎加可是去年有一個很重要並不是先報名就先加入中國比我們早一點去申請要加入CPTPP它根本連被討論都沒有因為有一些國家就是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7115.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7134.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
說實在有些國家是反對中國加入因為他就還不符合標準可是說實在他要來卡我們嘛啊這個怎麼是有智慧的人來處理讓台灣跟中國可以分開部長你可以監黨回答嗎因為我今天的問題非常非常的多好那我現在進入正題反正剛才那個就是說我們現在也是有在努力就對了啦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7136.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7140.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
來部長我想看專題報告說總統賴清德從上個月去出訪友邦接下來本席將針對這個問題就叫一下就是總統去年12月1號在夏威夷過境的時候停留了兩晚雖然涉外的人士說這是最高的禮遇的規格可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7153.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7159.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那時候只有夏威夷的州長還有檀香市的市長有在街梯之間迎接嘛但是外界都是對這個街機的規格都是有很多疑問的我想要請教部長幾個問題所以部長你認為賴總統這次的出訪街機是史上最高的規格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7172.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7176.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
是不是史上最高規格當然要怎麼看但是我是覺得說要高規格的這個因為我看是只有州長出席但是聯邦層級的參眾議員行政的一些官員都沒有出現嘛因為他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7187.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7190.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以大家會質疑說這是不是賴總統是去地方性質的出訪呢而且2001年阿扁前總統出訪美國的時候到紐約證交所敲鐘為什麼賴慶德總統不能在夏威夷隨便走走呢和喬包碰面一定要喬宴的場合和喬包碰面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7205.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7211.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
還有一點就是說他在出訪喬宴的時候背板為什麼沒有寫中華民國是我們不放嗎還是不被美國准許呢因為蔡英文2019年去夏威夷的時候背板就有寫中華民國還有一點就是賴總統在美方有兩次的閉門會議那一次是夏威夷智庫東西方中心一次是跟州長談緊急的救難這些都沒有會後的記者會為什麼會是這樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7235.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7244.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這代表什麼呢?是不是美方希望我們要低調呢?還是不想忍辱中國呢?還有一點就是賴總統參觀侏羅紀公園的時候,州長都沒有陪同這是不是和一般民眾旅遊有什麼不同呢?這是總統外交嗎?這看起來就有點像度假不是,這個其實我們跟英格拉森就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7261.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7286.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個AIT他們都有陪同啦因為最主要是這一個不只是什麼度假這個最主要是它是一個生態保育跟整個影視觀光結合很成功的一個案例所以我們也去了解那到夏威夷州的這個就是就是防災的這個中心去看那為什麼會沒有記者會 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7288.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7314.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那也有報導啊 也有相片啊然後我們後續也啟動很多合作對 是不是因為一個記者會讓大家大家都知道呢有記者有在 記者都有照只是記者沒有進去那一個因為他們防災中心下面裡面的設備它有一定的機密性因為我看這個報告上面寫得很清楚因為我進去的時候都看到記者在那邊說我們是跟美國政府 駕著那個攝影機啊其實我們跟美國地方政府其實有密切的關係嘛 對不對因為在上面 我們今天也在報告上面講你看我們的國旗也在上面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7315.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7326.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
但是州長都沒有陪同 那真的是關係真的是像外交部說的這樣有有有 州長陪同的時間應該是史上最長的啦當然看場合 你看我們到關島區喔 總督齁 大家也知道邀請我們去關邸 然後這個 不管是放國旗還唱國歌 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7334.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7354.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以我是覺得單點去看看不準啦應該整體來看台美關係我們建立在一個互信的基礎上很良好的溝通那該怎麼做都是大家很有共識的這一次很順利就是在於我們前面的溝通做得很好因為還有一個就是說見不到在地的聯邦議員就算了因為賴總統打電話給美國聯邦眾議前議長的佩洛西國會議員就坐在我旁邊有參加橋宴 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7361.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7369.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以 裴洛西是美國總統當選川普的最大敵人嘛不過啦 那個是在夏威夷 到了關島就有報導另外一位啊就Mark Johnson啊就現任的國會議長也有啊我們過去有兩個地點要一起放來看啦就是夏威夷跟關島要一起所以夏威夷是沒有的嘛 關島是有的意思是有啊 國會議員有參加 就住到旁邊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7391.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7401.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
現在賴總統如果說要去美國肯定都是要事先安排嘛這是不是一定是啦因為這個時機確實各方面的考量就結果論來講是算很順利啦但是我想說如果是視訊的話是不是美國不能還是不想要不願意直接見面呢這樣這樣我會不會覺得說這樣是不是美方對我們的賴總統信任度是不是有質疑呢因為這是大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7414.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7424.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
在美國還在政府交接而且還在議會開議期間真的是能夠像國會議員能夠返回參加橋宴我們很感謝至於其他的有些用視訊或電話那個是我想是因為這個時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7429.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7434.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好那個主席再給我一分鐘因為還很多沒有問題但是我再問一個最簡單的問題好了請教一下部長川普1月20號就職典禮我們立法院這邊要韓院長率團去包含我們王定宇召委都是會跟幾個委員一起前往那川普的團隊如何認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7447.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7451.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
台美的關係應該是可以從座位上面來安排嘛 這點部長應該是同意嘛在2020年拜登就職的時候 其實我們那時候代表是蕭美琴是被安排在使節團的座位區這樣不是啦 這使節團附近啦但是這樣的話 那你覺得我們這一次會被安排在使節團的這些座位區裡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7468.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7489.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
死結團就是獨立的沒有當時疫情期間所以人很少大家往前嘛所以就在比較前面那這一次就是我們也有就是受到邀請包括我們余大雷大使當然我們整個團那麼多人嘛我們會找最適合的地點因為那個邀請含有一個分區那我也跟委員報告其實這個總統請這個韓院長率團並不是組團 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7498.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7522.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這個組團還是要尊重我們比如說這個曹也這個立法委員所以現在是221啦然後後來因為硬是後來又變更要增加兩位就是台美是國會議員的這個友好的協會那我們的美處也是很努力在設法去達成所以我們希望說不要再變動能夠以這個來進行所以座位就可以認定我們跟台美的關係對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7523.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7541.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
最主要是我們跨黨派呈現大家台灣團結然後重視台美關係是這一點那也不只是當天的就職典禮啦我們其他的拜訪啦還有一些參會啦應該是都會促進台美是都已經安排好了嗎都有在安排中了好 謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7559.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7572.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 接下來我們請馬文君委員上台質詢謝謝主席 麻煩請部長我請您部長部長早我也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7585.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7605.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我想要請教一下本席在上週其實有詢問過因為今天我們外交部主要的內容大概是推動二軌外交跟元首外交的這個部分可是我們從過去幾年我們的外交成果就是我們所有的邦交國掉了幾乎一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7605.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7633.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那在很多的外交推動上面我們也花了非常多的資源甚至我們在國內很多重要的產業其實我們大概都拿出來當成外交的手段跟工具那如果可以獲得有效的或者正面的那當然可能很多的方式並不是不可以可是包括我們要接收像有一些產業比如說國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7635.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7638.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
快要破產的公司財務有問題的公司我們可能也要去採購這個對我們付出相當龐大可是二軌外交可能顯然在我們的正常外交上面我想要請教部長你對於我們現在目前的邦交國或者我們其他現在友好的關係的國家我們的目前的成果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7660.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7676.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
在惡鬼外交方面我們要感謝美國就是國會支持那透過AIT在執行那個GCTF全球合作訓練架構那也包括這個日本澳大利亞之後現在加了加拿大 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7677.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7691.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
進來做會員所以我們擴展出去其實很多的合作訓練這個其實是多邊的一種惡鬼外交也可以是這樣講另外我們台灣其實跟比如說我們理念相近國家特別我們第一島鏈還有歐洲幾乎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7696.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7718.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就是說有智庫也有我們官員他們比較能夠有辦法抗中那至於有一些地方像東南亞他們真的是比較不管是親中或恐中他們就顧忌很多那我們有些是邀請來台灣那有些用什麼樣的方式去進行惡鬼外交也都很頻繁的在進行最重要是台灣的重要性增加了台灣這個的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7720.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7724.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
就是要了解我們現在整個中國崛起的威權擴張的挑戰跟這個問題是不能夠不跟台灣有一些交流跟台灣交流是最快的方法謝謝部長我大概給你很多的時間做這樣的說明可是我現在要說的是我們正常的外交因為歐洲為什麼他比較不會恐中是因為他距離很遠就跟美國川普總統他講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7748.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7771.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
其實我們的距離高達9000公里以外那我們跟大陸其實我們近在咫尺所以到時候這些會不會來正式協助我們我們不曉得 可是看到俄烏戰爭的時候我們可以很明確的知道其實他們並沒有真正的不管出兵也好或者做實質上面的這些防禦或者攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7773.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7792.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
他們大概提供的都是一些武器裝備或者其他的制裁行動那顯然我們面對的可能是更強大的威脅那這一部分我們不曉得美國歐洲或者其他我們剛剛講的五眼聯盟的這些相關的國家可以對我們提供什麼樣的實質幫助可是我們現在比較想要知道的是比較務實的部分因為我們編了非常多的外交預算可是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7799.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7816.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
如果連上週我們一直不斷的詢問包括在預算審查的時候也有特別詢問到的可是到現在沒有一個具體的解決方案我認為我們的外交預算真的是太多了因為他根本做不到什麼事情尤其是連他不是總預算的問題而是外交部需不需要這麼多的預算首先我想要請教的是在上週我們已經問到 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7827.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7845.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
就是沙烏地阿拉伯阿曼約旦這些在台住處他們跟阿拉伯在台商務協會這個民間協會發生這個問題到目前為止我們看不到他的解決方案因為我看到我們提供的資料這個是從112年2月的時候這三個駐台機構已經分別給外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7854.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7862.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
區提到說這個商會其實他是有問題的希望我們外交部給予釐清或者甚至在國內應該做什麼樣的處置可是這個是112年2月現在是114年的元月等於快要兩年的時間這中間我們做了什麼到目前為止我只是詢問說 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7877.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7889.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們有沒有發函給這三個住處因為他們畢竟是官方而且是正式的也被我們認可的一些一個代表那我們到底做了什麼樣的協處的動作兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7894.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7921.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
來我請我們亞非市長來說明想跟委員報告這個議題基本上分為三個部分第一個部分就是簡單講就好了因為你們已經講太多了ACCT它本身就是冒用官方性質這個部分已經處理過了這個沒問題嘛對不對對已經處理過了那第二個部分呢可以怎麼處理它是冒用官方嗎那個我們已經發函了而且調查局還有那個警政署還有我們內政部都已經處理好了這個事情已經是告一段落怎麼處理好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7921.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7930.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
發函然後也強制他不可以再使用了那事實上 不可以再使用什麼不可以再使用官方性質 具體的把它講完就是說他不能再冒用代表阿拉伯國家的一個駐台那事實上我們部裡面也發過通函也告知所有的一些部內的單位還有相關機關他不具官方的性質因為所有具官方性質的駐台是必須在我們禮賓處要有登記的他募款敘利亞的贈災款你們知道怎麼用了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7951.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7968.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個部分他是依據他自己民團的那個在做處理我們在國內所有的相關社團如果要募款的時候都必須要經過我們所有內政部他必須要認可不是你什麼民團他就可以這樣募款他必須依據衛福部的相關規則所以像這個部分你們怎麼做這部分我們有通知那個相關的機關就他不具任何官方的身份內政部還有警政署你外交部明知道他已經有問題你可以做的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7980.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8001.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我們也一直跟他保持密切的溝通跟誰跟誰保持密切的溝通這三個住台我們平常都有密切的溝通我們上一次有問說我們有沒有發函給這三個住處他們有外交豁免權嗎民事形式有嗎這個就是我要跟委員報告的第二個部分有或沒有就好 有或沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8003.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8011.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
有或沒有 沙烏地有 那另外兩個代表處是沒有沒有的原因是什麼 沒有是因為雙邊沒有互惠那過程中我們一直 美國給我們有沒有互惠如果我們的國人 我們一個軍人在美國打人的時候美國會不會給我們這些相關的這些外交豁免 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8022.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8023.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
會不會如果有我們的武官派在美國如果他喝醉酒他去打了美國的公民他們會不會給我們外交豁免 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8034.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8038.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
報告委員我們現在就是說非邦交國的部分簡單講就好了有沒有給我們外交豁免美國有沒有給我們有給我們把資料提供給我們不要再講機密了今天這個已經發生在我們的自己的土地上面我們的國人被美國人毆打的時候今天為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8054.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8065.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那個AIT的人員他不去找外交部他直接找國防部他是怎麼處理的今天他是直接打給國防部然後直接把人帶出來甚至叫他們不要提告人就走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8068.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8086.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
今天我們認可的官方的代表在這裡被剛剛你們說的違規違法的民間團體組織被他們提告被他們騷擾被他們霸凌被他們在網路上面惡意的攻擊可是我們一點作為都沒有那你們要這些預算做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8089.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8101.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
你到現在還沒有處理的結果部長我相信您說你接任部長這個位置沒有很久的時間可是這個案子我們不斷在預算為什麼我們會特別提出來這是國格的問題今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8106.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8111.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
有人可以打我們的國人你說他有他的身份是什麼他是AIT正式的人員嗎是嗎你們把如果要這樣我們必須要追究他到底是什麼樣的身份背景因為我們今天不是人家的殖民地今天如果你要對等那請把相關的資料提供給國人很清楚的知道我們是怎麼樣對等我們有很多我們都認為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8132.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8136.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
可能比較高額的資源或者我們什麼樣的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8138.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8161.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
條件我們可以在雙邊可以獲得比較好的發展的情況之下我們都同意可是你今天他們美國在台協會的人員我不知道他是不是正式的在台協會的人員如果你今天要在這裡講那你又把它講清楚而且書面資料一定要提供上一次你明明說要提供書面資料後來又變機敏為什麼有機敏今天我們的人員在國外或者外國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8168.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8186.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
駐外使節或者相關的人員他們必須受到我們重視的時候這個有什麼機敏可言所以在這裡我想我們希望的平等互惠還有國格我們在處理這個事情的時候我不知道為什麼你們怕什麼你們只是發個文給他說你到底有或沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8187.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8211.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
在1971年退出聯合國的時候我們曾經經歷雪崩式的斷交約旦在這個時候贈送他們外館的土地我們目前使用的就是約旦送的我們現在雙邊都還有一些國安還有軍人還有一些教育上面的交流持續在進行中他們很快的已經要停止這樣子的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8212.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8224.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
就是因為我們的處置兩年了人家一個晚上打人的他都可以把他帶走而且還叫他不需要提告這個部分我們外交做不到外交部做不到那你們編錢到底要做什麼另外尼加拉瓜我們的住處是我們花錢買的我們花人民的納稅錢後來時間你們說時間來不及本來說要提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8236.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8244.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
後來也沒有提告我們用一元的價值捐給天主教會可是後來白白的就送給中國了這一種你們連一句話都講不出來人家送給我們外館現在你還在用可是你對待人家的方式是這樣部長你的看法怎麼樣跟委員報告 委員所說的外交已經基於對等跟互惠那我們如果有外交豁免 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8263.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8289.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
一定是就是對等的啦但是如果在執行上因為具體的個案有沒有涉及哪個主管機關比如委員我在第一時間知道之後我想他們既然在台灣涉處啦我站在外交部來講的都是我們要去關心的不能夠什麼一下子什麼徵訊啦 約談然後另外如果說有一些影響到他們這些在台灣公權力的執行我們當然也馬上跟內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8289.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8293.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
因為我們留給時間我們留給時間我現在只是一個比較你不管面對比較強的國家或比較弱的國家或者跟我們關係並不是你們認為不那麼密切的國家你都應該是對等所謂的對等是我們的人被欺負了你也不能幫他拍拍屁股我們自己自認倒楣然後你對很多的國家那你應該處理啊如果他查出來的身份如果不是那你就應該處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8316.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8325.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
因為這有涉及到內政警政署相關的單位我要再說警政署或其他那外交部就不需要這麼多經費我已經強調三次了我現在在說的是我們算審過可是當我們覺得你們不值得要這麼多的經費的時候你們外交部的預算跟過去真的增加很多可是我們看到我們邦交國不斷的流失甚至連這樣的處置都沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8342.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8346.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
聖路西亞到現在他的網站上面還掛著我們幫他寫的那篇文章我們派出去的一個詐騙販毒的外交替代役到幫他們的警察上課的這個文章到目前為止我剛剛再詢問了一下他還在聖路西亞的官網上所以你們一直在說你們做了多少事然後可以做什麼有什麼樣的作為我們不認為你們值得要這麼多的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8370.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8374.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這是我再次強調我們到現在還沒有看到這三個住處他們我們的石油其實跟這三個國家就是跟 委員我提議我來跟他們見個面因為我每次委員執行我就交班他們跟我的報告也都有接觸也確實依照我們外交的關係在處理我是覺得如果委員這麼關心我來關懷一下 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8396.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8401.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
為什麼會特別舉美國的例子我們不敢跟美國說什麼話啦 人家把我們打 人家把我們帶走 還不可以把我們的人救啦今天有另外一件事情你卻處理了兩年都處理不好 這是什麼樣的對外交對等有處理中耶 我們有發函以外 我本身也在備詢的時候有提到那些有涉及違法我們就要 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8420.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8423.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
聽我講完所謂的查辦到剛剛你有聽到查辦了什麼嗎今天人家如果連發生直接的民事糾紛甚至有毆打他都可以把人帶走我們現在不是說有發函啊有所有的單位啊就是對他這些沒有用沒有效益的章 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8439.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8461.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
部長我這裡有你們發函的內容為什麼我會再問就是因為你們沒有做就是因為你們沒有做就是因為你們沒有做約旦已經要終止要把人員送到我們台灣的這樣的計畫這個維持了四五十四十幾年這樣子的計畫他們要終止了部長你要正視今天如果他真的終止你們的預算應該全部砍掉謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8465.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8482.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
投資當然我們希望盡量招商啦不過投資跟我們的政務啊還是對我們來努力啦好謝謝馬文君委員部長請回待會許曉清委員諮詢完畢後休息五分鐘現在請陳冠廷委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8493.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8494.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
麻煩主席我們請部長請您部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8514.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8527.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
部長好委員好那個今天我剛剛看部長接受訪問那有提到說訪美的這個訪團那基本上所有的成員都已經訂了嗎對好成員都訂了那這次是由團長是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8538.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8550.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
韓國瑜院長這次率團我們整個國會的成員那是朝野都有 三黨都有所以我這邊先一個期許其實最近幾次訪美的一些行程朝野立委訪美的時候都有一些風波出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8551.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8574.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那不論是說跟訪團之間的成員的這個不愉快或者是說跟駐美代表處之間的一些溝通上面的一些問題我在出訪之前那先跟外交部來先談一下就是希望說這樣子的狀況不要出現那我也希望說有這個機會讓朝野的立委讓我們一致對外所以這個部分包含行程上面對智庫的訪問對美國政要的訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8577.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8601.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我希望我們三黨都能夠有共識那原則上訪團內部有共識之後才會有一些新聞上面的釋出等等只要有這樣子的基礎互信在的話我相信這一次或許是一個朝野能夠在對內競爭對外一致的一個新的篇章所以目前安排的如何有些智庫政要都已經開始在做好一些處理了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8601.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8617.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
本次訪美的都在積極進行中那主要是當然就是出席這個美國總統就職典禮那這個部分因為經過立院黨團的協商那就是也有給我們外交部名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8619.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8637.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所以除了總統請這個韓院長來率團那這個團的成員大家也協商出來民進黨、國民黨跟民眾黨是三一位就是總共是這樣子加團長就是八位 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8637.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8659.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那我相信這個跨黨派的國會議員組成的一個代表團是很有代表性但我要在這邊再說明這個是有行政部門再去協調來辦理那我們外交部我們會就是說把這些行政作業做好那我們希望就是不要再有變更因為本來是221啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8660.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8685.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
後來立法院當然是請我們去努力看看能不能再加兩位真的是很辛苦啦因為這個在美國這種就職典禮其實能夠出席的這些所謂的外賓是很少他們主要是以國內為主那在這種情況之下我們希望不要再有變動因為這個來來晃晃的行政作業還有內外的溝通所以這一點也請大院能夠來理解好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8688.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8706.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
由韓院長來所謂率團但並不是由立法院來組團好 謝謝部長這個是由韓院長率團那另外一個部分我們還是強調我看總統最近有提出來說希望能夠跟訪團的成員來去交友會晤那我在這邊真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8707.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8734.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
很樂見其成我們也希望說這一次的出訪或許是一個國會重新啟動那化解朝野僵局的新篇章那是我誠摯希望的所以這次的訪團不僅是對外我想對內團結都是一個很好的一個開始說到訪團我看最近有聽到媒體在說國安會之前也有訪團去訪美是不是有兩位國安會副秘書長去訪美那不知道成果如何不知道有沒有跟外交部有一些交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8737.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8760.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
當然到美國我們的代表處也都會有協助他們也都會聯繫所以我們有一定的了解有一定的了解有沒有什麼成果可以跟我們民眾分享我想多出席交流互動我想對這個尤其在政府交接期間都是有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8761.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8773.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
有什麼具體的成果嗎見到了誰談了什麼大概不必給我具體的名字但是有什麼樣的進展他們就盡可能去不管是就是去參加活動或者是貿易安全還是講安全還是講什麼樣的領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8777.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8790.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
因為這是比較不是一個正式的組團的活動他是以個別的方式去的那我們也都有了解 協助所以我就不帶為來說明不帶為說明 那國安會有誰監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8794.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8817.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
因為沒有辦法監督嘛 因為他不用來國會嘛報載嘛 媒體是有一些報導嘛那就是如同媒體報導有一些人有出席一些活動OK 好不過這不是正式的活動啦不是正式官方的活動那個都是一些拜會啦或出席有一些宴會啦我們用平常心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8818.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8835.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
多交流 因為在這個關鍵時刻多一個互動就多一層關係非常好 我希望不是形式上的而是實質上面有一些有意義的對話那這些對話我們也希望說有橫向溝通不是只是留在國安會的辦公室裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8835.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8861.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那這樣子的經驗傳承或者是說資訊傳遞各個部會之間才會有意義必須要強調因為我們之前在對國安局也好或者是各個不同的部會質詢的時候我一直在強調這一個整體性不要說每一個部會有各自的這一些資訊然後都覺得很機敏然後不分享那覺得說我好像知道某些事情我了解的比較多那還有是個上下之分不要因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8863.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8884.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
外交是總體的嘛因為部長也常講總體外交我也希望國安會把這些資訊都能夠第一時間讓我們外交部的這些部會的人員知道那以後投入的資源方向就會更加來去明確謝謝部長部長我剛剛看到這一次給我們的專題報告裡面有講一些出訪的紀錄跟出訪的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8884.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8901.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我不禁有點懷疑 奇怪 我們這個訪問的對象除了邦交國之外似乎偏重於歐洲 甚至是偏重於中東歐那我想說我們新南向政策我們的南向國家似乎比較沒有受到外交部的出訪喜愛 有這樣的情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8907.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8928.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我在這邊看到出訪成果裡面要嘛就是歐洲議會的這個或者是立陶宛波蘭捷克斯洛伐克等等或者是這個烏克蘭的經營烏克蘭雙邊關係我都認同就如同說我之前都認同價值外交但是現在部長講的是總體外交總體外交裡面部長又最重視的是經貿外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8929.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8956.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我想請教一下捷克、斯洛伐克、立陶宛、波蘭對於我國的總體的外交、外貿裡面佔的百分比是多少那為什麼我們把所有的資源全部都放在中東歐那我很意外因為此時此刻東南亞國家對中國的好感度是不斷的增加對美國的好感度現在是在下降的狀況之下甚至說有相關的這個民調我們在左下角有這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8957.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8977.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個Source資料來源他說你的國家如何應對台海衝突竟然是會支持中國的雖然是非常小部分但是還有微調微深大部分的都不願意來去做實質上面的來去協調台海之間的衝突也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我不懂外交部現在的重心是放在哪裡歐洲價值外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8978.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8998.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
還是已經就全面轉向總體外交了我跟委員報告除了我們的邦交國之外當然像美國它當然就是很開放嘛那歐洲的國家就看誰去比如蔡前總統有去那因為這些比較民主的國家大概我們的交流比較容易由部次長去啦你說在東南亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9000.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9019.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們當然有一些經貿性質的會議我們就不論嘛因為我們在談的是元首外交跟惡鬼外交那你說日本當然交流很頻繁以外包括菲律賓澳洲紐西蘭可是東協啦委員也知道你看像今年這個這個世界台商會在越南這個召開的時候我們的立委啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9020.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9046.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
連江啟臣副院長也被限制不能夠入境然後現在這一次是在馬來西亞開亞洲台商會同樣的也有一些限制所以說如果沒有限制我們是一定我們以外交部來講是一定主動積極來去交流另外至於智庫的外交有一些是公開有些不公開我想包括印度在內確實是也都很頻繁 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9047.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9063.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
因為說實在大家都很希望透過台灣也去了解這個兩岸之間的關係謝謝部長這樣我們就比較了解可能是沒有辦法因為畢竟他們還是對中國的關係他們的牽制比較深所以可能我們的這些高層出訪比較困難但是我還是要強調包含在國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9067.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9086.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我們會晤這個各國駐台的代表或者是大使不管是有沒有邦交國關係我們辦公室都有在做統計就是在新聞上面出現的頻率我們下次把圖表拿給你看那我們從中可以大概看到包含總統府在內 國安會在內似乎都比較偏重於歐洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9088.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9114.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我當然同意啦價值外交很重要但是就如同我對部長的期許現在已經是總和外交了包含經貿都很重要那我們台灣我們在東南亞國家之間的交流我們我國的台橋主要分布的區域還是以美跟東南亞為主美國為主那接下來就是東南亞各國所以我們不要把這個重心跟資源那全部都往一個區域來去放 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9115.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9134.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我必須強調歐洲它的重要性是有的但是對於我國的經貿安全還有對台橋的影響力來講的話東南亞加上印度它是非常具有重要性的特別是印度我老實說在過去的一年多來我基本上主要的大國 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9135.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9159.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
有核子強權那這個可以牽制中國的主要力量我沒有發覺到有很大的這個助力在那邊甚至包含南韓也是我們韓國跟我國之間的關係過去還是有很長時間的邦交國那文化上面科技上面的交友都有我是真的希望說把視角放回亞洲謝謝大家好 謝謝我們會加強謝謝陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9163.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9167.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
部長請回接下來我們請許巧欣委員上台諮詢謝謝主席我們有請林佳龍林部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9189.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9204.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
部長好新年快樂那我想呢我們前一陣子啊我們在外交國防委員會都在忙著審查預算那也很開心就說大部分的預算呢我們都已經審訊完畢了那也是有一個不管是在野黨或是執政黨跟政府單位很好的一個溝通過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9205.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9214.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
但是尤其在審查國防部的預算的時候大多數的委員們不分黨派都有談到一件事就是我們的軍購美國還沒有發貨的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9220.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9243.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那當時美國選舉大選出爐的時候您在11月7號的委員會備詢那我當時問了這個川普要求我們要均壽達GDP5到10%未來要如何因應你也提你也回復說呢我國採購的200億美軍軍購案的貨都還沒有給這方面美國也是理虧的那我國的需求是增加當中那未來要怎麼樣溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9244.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9256.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
可是我們看到這個蔡英文前總統在歐洲這個國外的論壇裡面談到說烏克蘭比台灣更需要美國的武器那烏克蘭戰勝就可以嚇阻中國先不論後半句話的對錯但是當烏克蘭比台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9259.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9287.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
更需要美國的武器由國家的前元首向國外世界闡述這樣的方向的時候我們都知道台灣現在接貨武器的速度比較慢某種程度來說是因為美國在產線上面跟烏克蘭還有其他的一些國家出現了排擠那當我們的前元首公開的說烏克蘭比台灣還要需要的時候會不會影響到我們國家的一些武器那採購以後交付的速度以及外交部在這方面要如何跟美方溝通來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9289.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9305.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
老公委員報告我們當然從台灣角度講台灣就是最重要而且很急迫其實像在川普總統他現在任命的國安顧問Michael Woods他就是先前那個Tiger就是那個老虎小組就是在加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9306.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9319.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
美台這些軍購之後的交付那我相信這個速度未來會加快因為我們也在努力做有岸外包或是近岸外包因為有些項目如果台灣可以生產當然我們都鼓勵由台灣來生產我們都鼓勵來 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9324.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9339.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
台灣生產可是很多重要的武器確實沒有美方這裡的許可或是不是有美方因為我們已經前因投下去了嘛那現在討論的是武器延宕交付的問題那武器延宕的交付我再講一次很多時候是因為美方他們也公開承認了 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9340.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9357.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
就是說因為烏克蘭的產線問題他美國他也沒有那麼大的能量可以那麼快速的製作這麼多的武器然後來交付所以當蔡英文前總統講說烏克蘭比台灣還要需要的時候是不是就會造成未來更多的嚴當的問題那外交部這裡要如何跟美國來進行溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9358.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9364.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們跟美國溝通就是我們非常需要而且就是希望能夠盡快的來交付這些已經採購的武器至於說未來這個採購的項目我們也已經積極有在這個推動中 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9375.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9400.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以要特別提醒我覺得烏克蘭誰比誰更需要這件事情我們應該要站在台灣的角度來講對我來說沒有任何一個國家我能夠在國會殿堂上面講說別人比我們更需要既然我們採購了我們一定是最需要而且我們一定是希望對方能夠按時交付這是守在一個為人民去爭取守護納稅前的立法委員的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9400.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9417.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我相信外交部長您也是從中華民國的角度看要認為一定要認為台灣是最優先其他的國家當然我們都祝福他們一切安好但是既然我們購買了武器我們不希望延宕我們一定希望對方把台灣排在最優先的角度部長認同嗎同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9420.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9430.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那再來另外一個問題有關於台灣的獎助學金這個台灣fellowship您知道這個獎助學金有多少年了是由誰來評估怎麼樣來評估的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9432.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9458.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
台灣這個fellowship你是台美那一歸台灣的獎助學金我們已經三十年都有了三十年了嘛對不對然後我們是由這個大使館跟代表處來受理申請確認資料評估申請人的學術影響力那有內部人士跟外部人士可是我要想要特別問一下部長您認不認識有一位叫做Carrie Garenchick的 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9459.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9473.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
學者他也有能拿到我們國家的這個台灣獎助學金的計畫而且呢已經連續拿了三次他的重要著作是什麼為什麼他能夠得到台灣的這個連三年的這個獎助 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9475.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9502.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
有人知道嗎?可以代替部長回答都沒有關係因為這個細節的問題我相信事務官有時候更清楚叫做Kerry Jeffrieschick我給大家看一下他在2020年出版了一本書我們先翻譯這樣子我直接講他的英文叫做Political Warfare Strategies for Combating China's Plans to Win Without Fighting這個是由美國的海軍陸戰隊大學出版的 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9503.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9521.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
但是在第126頁裡面他傳遞了錯誤的內容我們姑且先不論大家的政黨傾向跟政治傾向但是呢他裡面提到說呢馬英九前總統因為洩漏機密資料違反中華民國通訊保護法被判有罪進一步玷污了他的遺產 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9522.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9551.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
这本书在2020年出版但是呢我国在2019年高院一审就宣判了马总统这个无罪定验并且不得再上诉的事实所以代表他的这本书里面有非常严重的瑕疵这跟政党立场无关这跟我国的司法体制有关所以2019年就已经确定无罪不得再上诉定验的内容却出现在这个学者2020年的书里面造谣 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9551.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9578.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那等於說呢美國海軍陸戰隊的大學生都看到了這個假訊息很多人會以為我們中華民國的前元首是被判決有罪的好 等於說我們的前元首因為他的著作而被污蔑那結果呢他在2018 2020和2025年分別拿了我們三次的獎助學金那如果他不是一個被認為很重要的學者怎麼會這樣子呢我想要問一下亞太司司長北美司司長你們認識這個人嗎來 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9586.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9591.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
八年內獲獎三次你們認識他嗎?報告委員我這邊沒有接觸過沒有接觸過來下一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9594.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9620.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
因為要不是亞太司就北美司我們這邊也沒有接觸也沒有接觸所以沒有人認識這個人但他八年內拿獎三次你們知道他機票加獎金他大概會領到台幣公帑市兩百多萬元然後他連我們最基本國內的法律他寫的都是錯的在國外去造謠我國中華民國的前元首我再說一次這跟政治傾向沒有關係如果他們污蔑了我們的前總統蔡英文我也會感到非常的不悅 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9621.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9647.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
再來呢這個獎助學金我請問一下他支領到的每一個月的補助金有多少錢詳細每個案子不一定一樣這一個這一個Carrie的這一個知道再告訴我啦每個月我講答案好了好不好一個月是六萬元六萬元一年就多少錢了三年就多少錢了再加上機票的來回補貼就多少錢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9647.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9650.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以我想要問一下就是說外交部這邊有沒有整理過從我們開始成立獎助金以來我們有沒有一個對單人個人補助的上限或者是次數的上限或是什麼樣一個審查標準或者是讓我們發現或有人檢舉說他的著作或他的學術產生問題的時候我們有沒有一個停下來的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9671.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9677.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那個委員一定有審查機制但是具體的個案尤其涉及出版如果有錯誤啦那當然我們事後知道了應該因為我們有講住嘛應該也要就是應該請其更新啦因為這個雖然我知道在學術界誰給我 grant 跟我自己出版不是兩件事情那我們還是遵守出版我們在做審查的時候因為他已經我們給他講決心有一個審查機制所以不是外交部誰說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9699.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9711.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
審查過給他補助他去做了研究後來出版出版這個是獨立的事情可是出版裡面如果有錯誤我們有補助而且因為他碰到的是我們外交的一個很大的問題就是說是中華民國的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9716.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9742.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
出版但是2019有新的判決他沒有去更新嘛因為他建立在2018的資料上所以這個在時間上他有個時間差沒有但他就沒有去double check他寫的東西是否是正確的他沒有去更新最新的資料那再來就是說這是一個疏失啦這是一個很大的錯誤因為它涉及到中華民國元首的我們整個國家的顏面的問題而且它是一個假訊息一個假的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9743.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9771.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那根據我們獎助金官網的指引說明就說鼓勵學者在台灣的大專中心設計這個研究中心但是有學者向我反映說實務操作上面外交部的獎助金申請制度的設計申請人受到錄取通知之後才要開始找台灣的接待單位所以有時候會因為找不到而求助於承辦的國土漢學中心那這個時候國土漢學中心會怎麼樣做建議就是學問了 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9772.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9785.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以我的意思是說我們在整個台灣獎助學金包含是我們的申請的限制次數然後呢金額然後不是說比如說這個人他可能每年都是他那是不是我們其他很優秀的學者他就申請不到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9787.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9790.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
有沒有相關的限制以及當它的學術架構或者是內容出現問題的時候我們能夠怎麼樣去跟對方來溝通還有我們要來做研究中心的時候有沒有多方面的管道能夠推薦而不是收到錄取之後才發現說我找不到地方可以在台灣去做研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9806.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9819.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
這方面是不是可以請外交部事後再補題書面報告詳細的資料給我那你們也做一個整體的研究我們希望讓台灣的獎助金能夠越來越好運用在有效的地方也不要造成國際社會對中華民國的錯誤認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9821.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9849.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我會來請同仁檢視一下先前獎學金的這個審查那得到的人他的一個他的組成包括有人多次那另外就是有關於他得到之後要來做研究那他要有一個機構這個關係我們看怎麼樣能夠同時啊或者怎麼樣能夠來協助能夠找到他能夠能夠能夠這是所謂affiliate跟他能夠合作的單位好 謝謝部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9852.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9857.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
謝謝許巧欣委員 謝謝部長那暫時先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9882.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9882.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10289.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10290.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好 我們繼續開會我們請羅志強委員上台質詢有請部長請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10306.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10325.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
部長好兩週前12月16日前替代藝男林姓男子在美國紐約因為經營毒品交易平台被逮捕而且向美國法院認罪的案件這件事情部長知道嗎知道那請問外交部在多久掌握到這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10326.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10348.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
應該第一時間 因為我們有協助他申辦這個案子事實上五月份 該林姓替代義男在紐約被逮捕後 外交部曾經發稿證實那這個林姓男子 他是2023年是國和會派駐聖路西亞的外交替代義男 沒錯吧原來是預計在2024年7月退役 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10351.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10359.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那我要跟部長說我覺得這件事對我們的國際形象還有替代藝尤其是外派的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10360.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10386.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
的制度也造成很多的一些衝擊那這件事情的事後處理我覺得還是有很多的疑點所以在這邊我希望外交部能夠積極的回應跟澄清社會的疑慮那我首先想要問一下說林姓替代義男在我友邦聖路西亞服役他是協助擔任警察部門的網路犯罪防制相關工作對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10387.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10397.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
對,網路方面的治安那目前我們跟聖路西亞政府通報那相關離境男子開課的課程資料下架了嗎?還沒有是不是?已經下架了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10401.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10422.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們的下架了 已經有智慧聖路西亞那我們再來溝通啦因為我們單方面下架但是他那邊如果還掛著我們來協調一下加快我覺得事後的補救工作外交部還是要就是再上心一點因為坦白講蠻難看的啦 沒錯吧 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10423.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10442.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
掛在那邊當然不好看所以因此要先確認是不是能夠把後續的事情處理完那我就要想請教一下市長從公開資訊來看早在2020年10月在暗網上創建他就創建了名為匿名市場的在線商務平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10442.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10471.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那調查人員發現在匿名市場上他出售的包括海洛因、可卡因、搖頭丸還有冰毒還有許許多多一些包括普通的致幻劑以及已經在美國形成公害的芬太尼那麼我要問就是說美國的司法機構在機場叫他逮捕也就是說他已經掌握他的行蹤那外交部在這件事情上是有沒有提前知道相關的訊息還是等到人被抓了才接獲通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10472.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10496.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
應該說到了紐約之後就是有會我們意見我們駐外的我們的警政秘書就第一時間就掌握而且協助他辦理因為剛好5月19號這剛好在520這個新政府就職前後所以我上任之後我就就是有要求這個事情就是配合辦理以外我們也要針對這個事情能夠來查明 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10499.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10526.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我要問部長的重點就在於說這案子在這個所謂的我們講這案子美國司法部就是逮捕人以及在所謂偵案的過程當中我們的政府包括外交部以及包括我們警政部門他是事前就已經掌握他的犯罪然後跟美國做相當程度的司法應該是沒有說在聖路西亞掌握沒有沒有嗎是他到了紐約之後美方在查是所以有匯我們意見我們那時候就才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10527.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10540.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以我覺得恐怕內控部分也要再注意一下這是變成是美國掌握到發現那事實上人是在抱歉在國和會啊在我們聖路西亞對不對反正其實外交部就有一點督導上的責任的問題吧不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10543.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10561.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他的工作性質不是直接跟這個有關 但是因為人嘛 我想他的犯罪行為我們當然一方面是當事人他接受司法調查啦他是替代義男嘛 再透過國和會派深入西洋嘛 對不對那所以換言之外交部這件事我覺得還是有督導責任啦 不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10563.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10585.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以外管就是整體責任就是一定都有的因為人在外管嘛雖然是國盤會是另外有沒有釐清一下就是說透過他的逮捕跟犯罪事實他在服役期間有沒有涉及相關的機敏諮詢或者用他的職位來進行不當的交易就是外交的資源跟活動對他這個所謂犯罪行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10586.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10612.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
的影響是什麼有沒有他利用外交的這個所謂的資源來去稅刑他的一個犯罪的一個行動呢有沒有查過 依照人員的這個就是還有包括機密等級應該是沒有啦但是他會被稅有期制度這當然也都事後應該要來釐清那因為我們跟邦交國我們的國會其實一些替代藝人雖然只是一個年輕的人可對他們政府的幫助也是很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10613.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10636.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我不否認替代役制度的幫助但這是我下一個要問的問題事實上我覺得今天會有這樣的一個所謂的不法之徒那以替代役的制度變成是到邦交國這邊就反而是妨礙跟所謂傷害我們的外交的所謂的信譽跟尊嚴的時候我想要請教我們的這個替代役男在外邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10637.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10648.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
外交友邦服役的管理機制目前外交部檢討是什麼我們怎麼樣去避免未來發生的事情以及對於所謂的替代藝男的篩選的過程我們的查核機制是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10648.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10668.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
其實因為TID還是屬於內政部警政署那他們身過一個審查的過程他符合資格然後我們外交部用外管所以就在這個前半段是內政部但是我們當然也會希望他們能夠嚴格因為畢竟派外代表國家不管是外交部或國和會 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10670.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10697.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個審查機制就是選擇了這個替代役的這個部分我們跟內政部我想就發生這個個案那以後在這個這個替代役男的這個派外上面希望能夠就是注意這個他的本身的有沒有犯罪行為或是上網路上因為有時候有些人看起來沒什麼前科但是這個他也許在某一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10698.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10724.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
網路或跨境的犯罪上是有這種嫌疑或者是這種狀況那當然是應該要更審慎那在麻煩部裡面針對我剛剛提的幾個問題就是說這件事事後的善後的處理狀況如何以及他對他的身份在外交部裡面他有沒有涉及要釐清一下他有沒有幹用他的外交在外交部的身份來做他犯罪的一個行動的掩護 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10725.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10740.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
第三個就是替代藝男跟內政部協商一下外交說真的人派到國外去發生這種事情真的是我們國家蠻丟臉的啦所以這種事情應該把這個個案變成是一個檢討的案例不要讓以後再發生這種類似的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10741.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10757.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
對 我們藉由這個個案來徹底的檢討這些替代異難 選擇跟外派還有他在當地服務有沒有涉及機密或者是這些跟我們外交工作有衝突的地方好 謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝羅志強委員部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10768.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10771.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
張祺凱張祺凱張祺凱委員不在接下來我們請葉元之委員上台諮詢你好主席好請請部長謝謝有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10788.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10806.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
部長你好上次我在這邊質詢提到一個杜拜辦事處的事情你們的國會聯絡人說杜拜辦事處沒辦法協助國人去解決有關於簽證發錯的問題要自己去找旅行社後來你也有承認說可能這樣做不妥後來有去了解或是做出相關處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10808.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10824.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
因為這個是涉及到那個他的那個簽證資格來我請我同仁再說明一下不是啊不是啊那個跟簽證資格沒有關係我再講一次喔好四個人有大有小一起去申請電子簽證然後回來的時候大人都沒問題小朋友的變成一個黑人的簽證 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10825.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10851.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
所以是確實跟資格沒關係是他們發錯了那發錯之後就希望說能夠透過杜拜的辦事處跟當地的政府講一下說這個弄錯了可不可以發一個正確的來這跟資格沒有問題但當時我跟你們國會聯絡人聯繫一個科長他說他們沒有辦法叫我去找一個旅行社那我就說那你總是要去聯繫一下嘛然後就不了了之那這會讓人家覺得外交部都在推工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10852.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10875.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以旅行社幫他辦啦所以那像是我們這個叫旅行社外交是不是啦我覺得雙軌OK我可以接受就是民間公家一起處理但是全部堆給民間我們問說那杜拜辦事處處理得怎麼樣說哎呀會處理會處理官寮的要死最後不了了之連回應都沒有部長你可以接受嗎那我上次來質詢你說你覺得這樣也不妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10876.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10888.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
對啊 要集民所集嘛那你現在又扯到說是資格不符你根本沒有搞清楚狀況嘛他們先前是說因為那個不滿不大不然我希望你這個事情去追查 去處理好不好給我一個回覆好不好為什麼你們的國會聯絡員會講 而且是科長欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10893.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10906.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
國會聯絡人如果不想做國會聯絡的話你可以給他調別單位啊怎麼會說給你一個旅行社叫你自己去聯繫然後請你們聯絡杜拜的那個住處然後就不了了之你們國會聯絡人可以這樣子嗎來這邊應付喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10909.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10914.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
國會聯絡人在嗎不用浪費時間了部長我希望我下次還會再來問請你處理之後我現在來問你陳儲的狀況因為你部長你在你這邊的態度也會上行下效嘛大家就會覺得說我的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10925.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10949.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
跟你一樣啦 就急民所急苦民所苦所以在外交事務上來找我們我們都要當作這是國人嘛在外面的時候有一些遇到困難不管怎麼樣我們就是說旅行社當然他辦簽證我們要讓他也能夠來辦但是我們自己能夠幫忙什麼盡量的不要就是好像是說好像是對啊 他到後來都完全沒有回我我問說住處連都怎麼樣不了了之啊 兇得要命欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10950.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10966.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
是喔那部長你現在這個態度下面覺得說反正因為我們的部長也是很會推很官僚啊無所謂啊所以就繼續啦你今天要宣誓嘛你接林佳龍當部長以後外交部從此不官僚苦民說苦我跟委員一樣都是民意代表出身那我們接到客訴啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10970.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10994.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們都當作 國威聯絡就是沒有嘛我現在只是平常找你們 但我找不到部長嘛找聯絡人 聯絡人這種嘴臉那我們只能利用質詢的時候公開來講啊那現在已經告訴你第二次了 你還是一副無所謂的樣子請你去了解狀況好不好部長好下一次我還是會來問 說明一下我還是會來問 然後為什麼會處理成這樣是那部長我對你是有期待啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10995.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11016.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
因為你也做過民代嘛你做過立委嘛那如果連做過民代做過立委的部長領導的外交部都這麼官僚不處理事情那我們對外交部還有什麼期待你可以接受嗎那請你下次來不要又回答一個好像不知道狀況的答案可以嗎其實我知道這四位是誰啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11017.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11034.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
很重要的人啦重要不重要無關啦我現在沒有特別講他重要或不重要他講的是過程啦你不知道他是誰的時候都要很重視部長這跟是誰無關不用去影射現在是外交部處理的態度不要什麼都政治語言啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11034.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11058.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
沒有什麼政治原因我跟委員一樣齁那個事情後來人家也透過別的方式解決我現在講的是一個態度今天可能是A明天可能是B啊後天可能是C啊如果每次找外交部出一事那因為委員齁這件事情已經過去那我來跟委員報告就是說我的態度啦齁我希望我的同仁在接到這個案子的時候當作自己的事齁幫忙找解決方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11059.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11064.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那旅行社幫忙辦我們大家旅行社知道不是旅行社幫忙辦但是我們辦處能夠怎麼樣去協助這個不是幫忙辦最近有一個人家已經在網路上做電子簽證自己已經申請了是因為對方傳錯了只是要去溝通說你搞錯了是不是可以傳出正確的這個人申辦這簽證 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11079.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11087.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
跟他是誰然後跟什麼都無關所以扯東扯西就是你們在掩蓋的官僚不然你那種態度我也是覺得很失敗這種情況我是必須要多講比如我去比利時假日然後有我們的國人丟掉了這個護照來辦理20分鐘就辦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11097.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11112.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
有的公務人員很棒我們稱讚嘛如果有做不好的我們要檢討但是我現在就把沒有做好的地方你去扯說重不重要所以不是都不好啦政治語言真的很多有一些做得不夠好的要改進有些做得好的我們要鼓勵而且我跟你講他們已經透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11114.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11139.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個問題是後來用過民間的方式解決了嘛但是我現在講的是萬一其他不重要的人如果你會分重要不重要的話那下次有不重要的人遇到一樣狀況 外交部是不是一樣都一樣要當作很重要我們這個選民服務或是公司的客服那你剛剛去扯重要不重要幹嘛我覺得因為部長高度了還在講選舉語言希望我的態度我已經講了那請你處理嘛那你請你處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11142.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11168.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
因為服務業只要更好也沒有最好大家不斷的精進以後同仁就是外交部外交部也是服務業要有這個精神可是我遇到的好像就不是很服務業當然要講一套做一套我們一般民眾最討厭是口惠實不至話講得很漂亮實際上不是這樣那就是政治語言各案發生的時候不然他的怎麼樣我們都是要好好去檢視一下那下次可以把這個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11170.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11191.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
跟我在講一下嗎就是後續我怕委員我們講太細這個個案就跑出來了不是我是說怎麼處理這個SOP啦你一直故意去扯那個個案因為個案有好有壞嘛有時候比利時那個很好這個個案不管他是誰他就是大人小孩一起去申請簽證電子簽證也沒有麻煩你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11192.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11215.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
只是說杜拜那邊傳了一個電子簽證是錯的希望說透過住處去溝通一下就是這麼簡單也沒有簽證資格不符的問題也沒有叫你們外交部做什麼特權的問題就是一般人希望尋求外交部的協助但是我聯繫的狀況外交部就是一副就是就是沒下文叫大家去找旅行社就是這麼簡單不用扯東扯西我現在只是問你的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11216.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11239.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我跟委員的態度是一樣的你要把他當作自己的事來做你自己就會很緊張趕快去解決嘛那你怎麼會預測誰重要誰不重要咧你就是想要把他導到說好像哎呀這個人是不是有特權一點都沒有特權好不好一點都沒有不管他是誰啦背景不管怎樣我們都要服務好 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11240.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11261.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
上次我還說我期待你然後今天你又給我扯到什麼那個是 影射說好像那個是不得了的什麼人也沒有什麼多不得了啦只是可能你們是不是有認識的 我不曉得啦也沒有什麼多不得了 但是那政治語言沒必要啦再來部長我想跟您請教一下賴總統不是要找那個韓院長喝咖啡嗎日本月中旬是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11262.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11286.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
當然是出國前那這一次因為我看到很多黨政人士 媒體報 黨政人士對外講說這是朝野和諧 和解的意義那請問一下 因為就我了解 應該是任何人代表台灣去慶賀應該總統都會接見一下嘛 勉勵一下嘛然後告知一些任務嘛 大概是這樣嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11288.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11313.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
當然不一定啦 不一定 那還有什麼因為有些是出去前 有些是回來後有一些有沒有 這個情況不太一樣但這一次總統是很慎重 認為說請韓院長來率團所以大家就與台灣不管是外交或其他的事情可以聊聊你說還會聊外交以外其他的事情是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11314.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11342.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
就是聊了當然就是就是大家都很自由啊什麼啦講話有沒有聽得懂嘛外交是內政的延長對這個跑到一分呢所以你的意思是說不好意思我幫你收斂一下你的意思是說一般來講的話出訪前會找來大概是主要是講出訪的事但是因為這一次可能會比較不一樣可能會聊一下聊有關於出訪之外的有關於內政的東西沒有沒有我不是這個意思我就一見面 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11343.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11366.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
是沒有什麼說什麼人聊什麼不能聊當然主要是要就這一次的我們的代表團去慶賀的事情嘛主要是慶賀的事情嘛一定是的啊那因為這一次韓院長去那當然也算是外交的一種嘛因為您一直提到說應該要各種外交嘛總和外交嘛國會外交也是嘛那請問外交部這邊是提供了什麼協助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11367.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11391.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
因為我看到之前好像有院長去的時候外交部也有準備辦首禮然後應該也是有幫忙聯繫一些就是當地的行政官員嘛或者國會議員我們外交部會做基本的這個所有行政作業當然這個代表團因為他是立法院長他也許也有一些他自己就是說就是到那邊去他希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11393.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11417.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
能夠 能夠 能夠盡一份力量的地方嘛這個我們 我有看到公文啦 都有啦所以我們外交部的基本 該做什麼你是說有看到他的行程是不是不是啦 就是說 當然有一些 有一些增加的一些項目啦 或者是禮物啦 或者是什麼我們都會做準備啦 基本我請我們市長來跟你詳細報告啦 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11421.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11439.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我們現在針對慶賀團的行程都還在安排當中,那就是慶賀團出去之後,如果團長這邊有一些其他的指示,我們如果是跟潛力符合,那也是符合外交禮儀的,我們也都會盡量來配合辦理,那通常訪團出去的話,我們也都會幫忙準備備禮,這個也都是會繼續做的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11442.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11463.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
所以他就是說以他為主啦他行程他會自己安排但是如果希望外交部協助的部分外交部才會去幫他安排親熱團的行程是由外交部還有我們的駐外單位來一起來安排因為這個親熱團是我們國家的親熱團那現在有現在有應該都不能講嘛對不對都還在安排還在安排當中OK那最後我想問部長所以你覺得這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11465.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11492.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
韓院長去對於朝野未來和諧您自己個人認為有幫助嗎會不會因為現在大家會害怕嘛會不會見完面之後忽然又翻臉的以前朝野常常遇到這種狀況不會啦我想總統已經講很清楚就是這個去代表國家去慶賀我們外交部會全力來配合所有這些行政作業好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11495.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11498.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝燕子委員 部長請回鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在賴世保 賴世保 賴世保委員不在陳培宇 陳培宇 陳培宇委員不在蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11519.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11537.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
已登記質詢的委員除了不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束委員口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請相關單位已書面於兩週內提供委員另約定期限者從期鎖定本日會議到此結束 散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11550.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11551.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
七方?七方? |