| IVOD_ID |
16441 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16441 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-02T08:30:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-02T18:45:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
10:15:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea2b89873ec9b2dea26425655b8120616f529fa0cca45d562787225a3358bd299d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、請行政院秘書長率同所屬，就行政院所屬人員涉嫌霸凌案件處置情形專題報告並備質詢。二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院部分。三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。四、繼續審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。五、繼續審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。
備註：本次會議開會時間為上午9時至議程處理完竣） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:00 - 18:45:00 |
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字幕志愿者 杨栋梁 |
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2142.264 |
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好請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數好我們現在開始開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2158.038 |
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2174.332 |
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立法院第11届第二会期内政委员会第19次全体委员会议议事录时间113年12月30日星期一上午9时11分至下午5时10分地点红楼202会议室出席委员苏巧慧委员等14人练习委员郑正前委员等9人 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2174.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2189.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
列席官員客家委員會主任委員古秀飛暨相關人員財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長陳邦整暨相關人員中央選舉委員會主任委員李靖勇暨相關人員行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李易榮主席徐昭基委員新穎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2190.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2199.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
3.继续审查114年度中央政府总预算案关于中央选举委员会及所属单位预算。4.继续审查114年度中央政府总预算案关于中央选举委员会及所属单位预算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2210.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2234.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
讨论事项一二和并询答客家委员会主任委员股秀飞报告委员苏巧慧等15人提出质询均经客家委员会主任委员股秀飞及相关人员及其答复说明登记发言委员除不在场者外其余均已发言完并询答结束为其答复部分请相关机关于一周内另以书面答复并复制本会权益已审查114年度中央政府总预算案关于客家委员会及所属部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2236.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2255.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
税务部分第二款第三款第四款均照列第七款其他收入第十五项客家委员会及所属804万元增列第一幕杂项收入220万元其余均照列改列为1024万元税务部分第二款行政院主管第十项客家委员会及所属43亿7036万4千元照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2257.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2272.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本项提案五案保留提案内容请参阅本项通过决议三十项请参阅二审查客家委员会含送财团法人客家公共传播基金会一百一十四年度预算书案总收入总支出及于处军照列通过决议一项 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2272.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2297.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
三审查一百一十四年度中央政府总预算案关于中央选举文会及所属部分税务部分第二款第四款第七款均照列税处部分第二款行政院主管第十一项中央选举文会及所属原列四亿八千六百六十六万三千元简列第一幕一般行政向下基本行政工作维持费一百零七万一千元含业务费之特别费七万一千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2297.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2316.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第二幕選舉業務三百萬元共計減列四百零七萬一千元其餘均照列改列為四億八千二百五十九萬二千元本項通過決議十九項請參閱四一百四十四年度中央政府總預算案關於客家文匯及所屬部分審查玩具領據審查報告含送財政委員會提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2317.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2335.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
五財團法人客家公共傳播基金會一百一十四年度預算書案審查完均拟據審查報告提報院會公決不需交由黨團協商並推請徐昭記委員心營與院會討論時做補充說明六一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬部分審查完均拟據審查報告含送財政委員會提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2338.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2351.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
其他事項一項決議本案採記名表決方式表決結果在場委員呼喊主席十三人贊成者六人反對者七人反對者多數本案不通過宣讀完畢好請問各位同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤好請李博義委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2378.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2401.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
謝謝我尊重主席的排案那剛宣讀的會議紀錄這個是78次的會議議事錄在我們去年也就是12月30號開會的時候已經表決有確認過那我們的臨時提案被否決但是我還是尊重主席今天的排案今天排案排行政院所屬人員涉嫌霸凌專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2403.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2425.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我希望行政院是不是可以真的有主席同意行政院把上次12月18號沒有報告的內容一併來提出報告可不可以謝謝好啊可以好那請問各位同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤沒有沒有錯誤議事錄確定那我們繼續進行報告事項與討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2433.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2458.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報告事項請行政院秘書長率同所屬就行政院所屬人員涉嫌霸凌案件處置請行專題報告並被質詢討論事項一繼續審查一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院部分二繼續審查一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算三繼續審查大陸委員會韓送財團法人海沙交流基金會一百一十四年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2460.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2467.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
4.繼續審查大陸委員會韓送財團法人台港經濟文化合作策經會114年度預算書案宣讀完畢好那我們接下來來介紹在場的委員以及列席官員那我們在場的委員有張志倫委員還有黃婕委員黃美惠委員蘇巧惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2490.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2511.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
李博毅委員好那我們在場的列席的官員好我們首先我們行政院的秘書長龔明欣龔秘書長還有行政院法規會的主委沈淑菲沈主委還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2514.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2538.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們這個今天還有各個單位本席因為時間關係就不一一介紹那特別再介紹就是我們有在場有打擊詐欺指揮中心的指揮官也是內政部次長馬世元次長還有行政院主計總處公務預算處的專門委員廖玉琳廖專委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2543.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2560.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好那我們現在進行報告那請行政院龔明欣秘書長來報告除了今天的專題報告之外也應李博義委員的這個要求就我們上次的業務報告跟預算報告請秘書長來報告請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2570.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2589.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝主席主席以及各位委員各位女士先生那今天各委員會安排行政院就行政院所屬人員涉及霸凌案件的處置情形專庭報告以及繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算有關於行政院的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2590.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2603.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本人在此先代表本院以及向各位委員表達深切的謝意感謝各位委員的辛勞以及長期以來對本院各項行政措施的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2605.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2620.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那對於近期政府各機關內有關於職場霸凌的傳聞本院是十分的重視那行政院卓院長也在第一個時間裡面明確的要求中央政府各機關要以最嚴謹的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2622.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2643.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
清查機關內是否有霸凌的行為以及最快的速度完成調查依法來處理同時就機關內市場霸凌防治的機制也展開全面性的檢討加強員工的保護讓所有機關的首長以及所屬的同仁可以一起在友善的環境中裡面推動政務 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2644.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2668.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
為國家跟社會人民做出更多的貢獻以下僅就本院及所屬機關整體的經濟情形還有專責通報平台的建置以及本院院本部有關於霸凌個案的處理進行向各位委員來做一個報告有關於公部門職場霸凌的精進作為上面首先針對於積極檢討研擬強化的法制作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2670.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2697.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那我想為了建構健康友善的這個職場環境為了避免同仁在執行職務時遭受到身體或精神的不法侵害基本上各機關應該提供員工免受霸凌侵害的這個職場那麼按照這個公務人員保障法以下我們稱為保障法以及第19條以及公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法以下我們稱為 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2698.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2716.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
安慰辦法的第三條的相關的意思呢事實上人事總署呢已經多次的要求各機關應該以上開的相關的規範還有自治的相關的申訴處理的流程來辦理職長霸凌防治的事業並且由各主管機關督導所屬的機關來落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2719.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2739.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第二個我們為了強化各機關職長霸凌的防治的處理機制也就是人事總署在113年的11月20號已經通函各機關針對現行的相關的作業規定完成強化員工的保護還有縮短調查時程落實執行相關的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2742.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2766.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
再者呢 近期公務人員保障以及培訓以及培訓的委員會 也就是保訓會以及勞動部等相關的法治主管機關也在檢討相關的這個法令措施人事總署也積極的通盤檢討現行的機制還有收集實務的案例那後續呢 也會會通相關的這個法治主管機關來強化相關的法治機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2769.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2786.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第二在提升公務人員的職業安全方面首先在現行的這個法制架構的強化的相關防護塊公務人員職場安全與保障法裡面已經有明顯的這樣的相關的法制的規範跟它的架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2788.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2813.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這樣的架構之下事實上本院已經決定將跟考試院研擬修法的相關的事例來強化那保訓會已經延續了安慰辦法的修正草案修正重點包括了增訂主管機關德設公務人員執行植物安全衛生的諮詢會以及機關安全跟衛生防護委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2814.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2830.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那來任務的這個職責事項另外呢針對高風險植物人員特別防護的專節以及監督檢查科則的相關規定並在113年8月12號呢已經函成考試院院會來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2833.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2850.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
來強化公務人員職場霸凌防治機制保訓會將會重新檢討保障法跟安慰辦法本院也會跟考試院來研擬相關的一些作業第三點是有關於提供心理健康的支持及時提供關懷跟諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2854.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2877.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
針對職長霸凌的事件除了要啟動相關的調查程序之外各機關也應該及時的提供員工的協助方案關懷的措施如果依當事人的意願主動的提供心理諮商的管道還有相關的法律或醫療的諮詢的機構同時也可以視情況來進行工作的調整或者是職務的輪調 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2879.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2904.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第二個呢 整合跟推廣心理健康的資源除了我們機關內部的這個心理諮商的資源之外呢事實上我們也可以透過外部整合外部的相關的包括自殺防治或優異症心理健康的資源來強化同仁在職場上心理健康防護的網絡提升多元的諮商管道還有意見反應窗口的可進性 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2906.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2923.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
並且培養同仁正向求助的觀念第三個是加強友善職場觀念的宣導本院持續的督促各機關多元的宣導跟教育來強化友善職場的一些觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2924.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2945.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那第二大項是有關於建立院程級的職場霸凌的通報平台人事總署已經在113年12月13號完成建置了職場霸凌通報的平台提供公務人員除了在機關內部的申訴的管道之外另外還有外部的申訴管道那平台接獲的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2946.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2963.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
案件的通報以後將經過加密的措施轉交權責機關依保密的規定相關來做處理並且在三天之內要回報出戶受理的情況一個月之內要回報處理的結果當然必要的時候可以再延一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2965.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2985.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
由該總署進行案件的追蹤列管平台如果接到了沒有具名的通報申訴案件也會檢視它的內容轉交權責機關依相關的規定來審認處理本院透過平台來適時了解機關霸凌申訴的通報情形喊請主管機關加強來督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2988.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3014.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第三大項是有關於我們院本部處理個案的一些狀況本院院本部已經按照人事總署的標準作業流程建議的作為在員工協助方案裡面實施了定定的危機個案以及職場霸凌的處理流程並且宣導以及訓練提供員工遭受到職場霸凌的申訴跟保護的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3015.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3029.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
按照昨院長的指示,全面檢討職場霸凌作業本院院本部也另外訂定了行政院院本部員工職場霸凌方式與處理的作業要點並且在113年12月3日已經發布生效 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3033.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3056.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那本院的院本部員工如果需要有心理諮商的需求那除了可以人事處安排跟院本部的特約的心理諮商師來務談之外呢也可以直接向院本部的特約的心理諮商中心來線上出談或者是預約相關的這個諮商服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3057.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3063.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
第四項有關於院本部發生疑似職場霸凌的個案的一些處理情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3064.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3088.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那麼按照院本部的員工職場霸凌的處理罪要點如果是具名通報那我們就會立案來做調查如果是匿名檢舉或媒體批漏的案件我們則由兩位的外聘委員跟一位的內部委員組成的因應小組來做初步的了解並且根據他的這個陳述的內容來判斷是否立案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3090.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3112.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
本院日本部疑似發生職場霸凌的事件經過媒體披露的大概有三件分別是消保署的處長公關處處長跟秘書處處長來涉嫌疑似涉嫌職場霸凌後面兩件陸續經由立法委員來函也關切第三件也由其他的機關機關來函轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3114.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3125.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
另外我們內部循我們管道正式提起申訴的也有三件不過這三件跟每一批鋪路的基本上是有一些重疊的所以我們併案來做一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3127.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3145.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那其中呢消保署的案件的部分已經立案調查那現在也在正在調查處理當中那有些案件大概已經調查到一個段落不過在行政的流程當中那有些還在調查當中那我們預計在一個月裡面要完成公佈對外採訪說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3147.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3160.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那有關於公關處的部分呢就因應小組就案情因為這個是媒體鋪路的那初步的了解以後我們也正式的立案調查那同樣的是一個月以後希望來過完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3162.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3190.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那有關於密疏處的是媒體鋪路之前呢基本上我們已經收到以這個職工工友駕駛以下我們簡稱工員的名義匿名來做陳情那因為他是一個匿名的陳情的職長霸凌那麼我們為了釐清的事實那本院的院本部也開始啟動了這個行政調查來為了解事實的真相那麼經過訪談了大概十多位的院內的相關同仁之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3191.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3217.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那沒有查到比較具體的案的事證另外呢祕書處的59位的公員他也連署說明了該陳情案是一個不實的指控想要假借公員的名義來進行抹灰破壞公員的名義所以上述的這個行政調查結果我們也先提報了行政院本部的職場霸凌申訴的評議委員會來做報告跟被查那各位先進 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3219.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3241.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我們認為文官擁有長期累積的專業知識行政經驗跟法事精神是國家保持正常運作的穩定力量也是推動政府各項措施穩健落實的核心力那近期的職長霸凌事件雖然使得文官體系還有公務人員受到一些斬傷但是無論中央跟地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3243.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3265.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
職務跟職等文官永遠是國家的基石人民的依靠本院一定會謹守落實賴總統所揭示的我們要努力改變過去被視為理所當然的職場文化更要杜絕職場上各種形式的霸凌來度數更健康進步的公務跟勞動環境以上報告敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3266.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3279.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
並且也支持本院的院本部110年預算那我預算的部分是不是也一併簡要的說明一下是不是對就是上次沒有說明的包含行政院的業務報告還有預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3283.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3304.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
謝謝那我就補充報告就是說那有關於這個本院在114年施政的重點還有預算的籌編的情形那就以下向各位來做一些報告那有關於預算的部分目前我首先報告一下113年度已經執行的這個情形那以當時來講我們113年稅務是 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3308.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3313.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
總共是2284億367萬7千元截至11月底為止累積的分配數是來到了1815億1952萬3千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3327.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3345.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
佔了整個分配數的百分之百就是說已經有按照進度來執行有關於稅出的預算113年度稅出總共是14億2191萬9千元截至到去年的11月為止累計的分配數也達到了93.19% |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3350.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3366.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
以下來說明一下就是有關於114年度編列的重點114年度有關於稅務的部分我們總共編了兩千億三千四百五十六萬四千元比這個113年度的預算簡列了 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3371.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3373.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
283億6911萬3000元那主要是因為國發基金他的剩餘繳庫減少了283億左右所呈現的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3386.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3395.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那有關於稅租的預算的部分呢114年度呢那運輪部編列的預算大概是15億3364萬6千元那比113年度呢增列了1億172萬7千元主要是在增加人事費大概5千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3410.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3439.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那还有另外还有各支办的甄列还有资讯系统的扩充还有办公空间的一些档案库的改善作业等等的一些相关情况那简单的向各位作业说明有关于第一个是一般行政的部分编列的11亿8千11亿844万6千元主要是人事经费还有基本的行政的维持费 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3440.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3460.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那第二項就是施政跟法制作業處的部分編列了1488萬5000元主要是辦理的政策跟法規的研議等等相關事務第三個是施政推展的聯繫編列了615萬主要是行政院行使職權相關必要的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3461.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3488.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
第四項是有關於聯合服務業務編列的3788萬7千元主要是督導還有協調整合中部南部東部雲嘉蘭還有金馬地區的聯合服務的相關事宜第五個是災防跟國土安全編列的1575萬7千元主要是針對災防的部分或是國土安全的相關的一些業務推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3490.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3502.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那第六項是有關於性平業務那編列了1627萬3000元主要是辦理相關性平業務的政策的綱領還有相關的事務上的一些推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3504.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3526.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
第七項是消保跟食安那編列了大概1432萬5000元那主要辦理的相關消費者保護或者是食品安全的相關業務那第八項是資訊管理編列了6,899萬主要是辦理行政資訊系統還有設備的更新還有治安的防護的擴充等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3527.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3537.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
第九項是新聞傳播業務總共編列了5195萬9千元主要是辦理本院的新聞發布還有重大的政策宣導相關的事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3539.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3564.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
第十項是人權及轉型正義編列了一千三百一十五萬主要是辦理人權保障轉型的相關的業務上的推動第十一項是個資籌備業務編列了一億兩千一百五十一萬六千元主要辦理相關個資的一些個資委員會的相關的籌設還有組織法的相關嚴厲等等一些相關推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3566.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3569.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那第12項是一般建築還有設備編列的6050萬8000元主要辦理辦公空間改善還有檔案庫的一些補強作業等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3577.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3595.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第十三項是第一的預備金按照上年度的編列一樣是380萬那我們希望透過這樣的一些編列以後可以提升我們施政的一些績效主要有幾個方面希望我們可以提升議事的功能強化施政的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3596.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3624.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
提升法规的品质增进的是个溯源的功能第三个提供单一的窗口落实照顾各区域就是中部南部东部云加兰还有金马地区的民众的服务第四项是凝聚全民防灾的意识强化灾害应变跟风险管理的体系第五项是整合的国土安全通报还有应变机制强化关键基础设施的防务韧性 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3625.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3649.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第六是推广性贫的观念引进融合性贫的理念第七是父权消费者完备消费者的保护机制落实消费者保护的相关权益第八是精进台湾食品安全跟管理的通路持续的推动五环2.0的食安政策建立可信赖的食品安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3650.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3667.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
第九是漸進更新設備系統提升資訊的效能跟治安的防護第十是善盡政府政策的溝通讓民眾了解政府的政策跟事件作為第十一項是完善人權的保障機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3668.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3688.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
國家的轉型正義很重要的工作那第12項是籌設個人資料保護委員會那推動各自的保護相關工作那以上是本院在114年度施政的重點還有預算編列的主要內容那我想這個部分就請各位委員來做指教以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3701.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3721.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好我们现在来进行询答委员质询之前原理做几点宣告第一个本会的委员发言时间4分钟必要时得延长2分钟非本会委员发言4分钟那上午10点30分截止发言登记 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3722.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3736.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那今天如果有臨時提案請於11點之前提出是本會議詢答完成後處理那我們現在進行詢答我們邀請第一位的蘇巧慧委員好 謝謝主席我們請國民署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3751.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3753.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
請光臨署長署委員早安署長好署長很高興在你剛剛專題報告完之後還有機會可以就上次沒有報告到的行政院的相關事務可以進行說明和報告因為只有清楚的說明全部的認真大家討論之後我們才可以就行政院的業務來做一個了解討論並且就今天的預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3782.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3805.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
來互相的這種看看到底是要怎麼樣的斟酌考慮所以其實認真開會那真的是非常的有必要那也希望是一個大家在和平相處然後能夠互相表述意見很可惜現在的立法院越來越不是這樣因為現在的立法院直接就是看起來人數多的黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3807.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3832.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
把所有的权力尽量的扩张收纳到自己的独大的立法权里面所以不断的在削弱行政权扩张立法权这就是这段时间以来的状况嘛那我想行政院呢作为一个相对应的机关你们是不是也应该对这一段时间以来的种种法案争议性的法案扩权立法权扩张的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3833.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3856.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
是不是應該也有個態度和表示今天在這裡是不是可以請秘書長就行政院的態度做一個簡短的表述是 謝謝委員那我想行政院對這三個法的態度事實上我們是非常關心的那這中間的討論過程當中我們希望說如果朝野可以達成一些共識的話那我們當然行政機關是依法辦理那 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3858.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3882.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
當然就誠如剛剛委員提到的很多並沒有經過比較充分的討論所以我們的確發現就是說就我們行政部門來講如果真正的按照這樣的法律來實施恐怕有一些部分是比較自愛難行那我們會針對這個部分提出可能上的一些相關行政或法律上的一些救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3883.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3886.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
秘書長您剛剛提到的朝野之間各自有不同的看法那也應該在朝野之間盡量要尋求共識可是我想以今天我在這裡質詢行政院這樣子的立場的話我也必須說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3903.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3911.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
朝野不是只有在立法院之間的兩個黨團朝野三個黨團朝野之間的狀況我想行政院確實也應該要對現在的這些院紀紛爭能夠表達一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3918.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3931.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這個態度不一定是強硬的直接壓過去的而是也要試著看看有沒有什麼其他的化解的狀況但如果會涉及到憲政秩序的底線我是認為行政院一定要把持著關於憲政秩序的這一條底線我想這才是國家之福我同意也就是說我再次重申我同意行政院可以有比較和緩的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3943.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3952.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
來做朝野之間的討論但我認為憲政秩序的底線必須要守住這是本席對行政院的要求不曉得秘書長你認為這個態度您能夠接受嗎或者你有什麼樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3958.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3976.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
剛剛特別提到了就是說如果我們發現裡面的一些條文對行政的推動上來講有自然難行的部分我們會尋求相關的一些救濟的一些方法那當然包括的您剛才提到的憲政上的爭議的部分我們會思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3976.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4004.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 那我想這個速度也是要掌握啦好 那其實今天因為是行政院的質詢的詢答嘛那我想除了行政院除了解決院級之間的紛爭之外在這個處理行政立法之間的互動之外其實行政院本身也要負責統籌底下的各部會所以我也是就另外一個我非常關心的例子來就行政院統籌各部會的這件事情跟您就教其實對我們人民日常生活來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4005.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4024.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
憲政秩序和日常生活日常生活坦白講比較有感那我以這個需要各部會統籌的部分來跟您就教的話我想講的是廢水的部分我想生活廢水的部分其實在行政院在這個中央跟地方政府的努力之下以新北市而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4024.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4042.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
本席也有爭取新北的各席立委也都努力爭取所以我們這幾年有很多的預算來協助中央和地方一起努力我們在生活廢水的部分生活廢水的部分其實公共污水下水道其實擴增了是相當的多現在在新北已經累計超過122萬戶普及率高達了72.46這是在處理公共污水道的部分可是很可惜的其實我們的廢水還有另外一個就是事業廢水 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4054.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4081.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那這個事業廢水呢 其實它就不是在這個國土署這邊囉事業廢水 民主黨您知道事業廢水現在是由誰來管轄 同學事業廢水我們就希望如果它在各目的地亂機關尤其在工業區裡面希望它這個廢水可以處理好以後才排放出來對 所以你現在的狀況就是你希望它可以處理好才排放出來那如果它現在沒有的話 那要怎麼蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4084.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4110.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
現在各工業區基本上大家都有專門的污水處理那是新的吧或者是還是有經濟部和這個國科會這邊所轄的專業的園區才有吧我給你看一個這個圖啊這其實有相當多的地方在都市密集區甚至工業密集區你看這個中心點這邊這個有一大塊就是沒有的地方嘛這地方就是顯然它一樣是工業區但卻沒有污水處理系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4113.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4139.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這就是表示什麼呢是生活污水大家因為有統一明確的管轄機關所以他不見要預算給預算要施工給施工就下去了可是在事業廢水的部分卻因為我們只能夠督促他你要自己蓋喔你沒有蓋好的話我就是用來盤查檢查的方式那麼如果是既有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4139.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4153.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
工業用地的部分那到底要怎麼樣去統合有沒有辦法如同我們在蓋一般的公共污水下水道是用政府的力量下去做嘛那這就完全不一樣的效果啊Mirza你可以了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4156.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4181.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
報委員我想這樣就是說因為我們中央政府管的不管你剛才講科學園區跟工業園區那個應該都沒有問題現在就是說有些民間籌設的民間型才是大部分那或者是說地方政府有一些籌設它面積比較小要成一個單獨的處理廢水可能比較困難那剛才委員提到了是不是有一個聯合什麼樣的形式來共同處理共同管溝那我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4181.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4205.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
其實我跟您修正一下,剛剛我們在講的就是經濟部、國會統合的工業區、產業園區是有的這沒有問題嘛,所以我們這個部分不再討論之內我們現在在討論的甚至不是只有地方政府所管轄的園區或者是,不是只有地方政府管轄的園區我講的不是只有園區,而是只要是工廠密集處 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4206.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4222.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
其實工廠密集處就是我們現在要主要要討論的事業費水的管理方式嘛處理方式那在這樣的地區要怎麼樣提升它的污水處理設備這就是今天要討論的部分嘛所以結論是什麼啦結論是 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4224.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4240.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我認為行政院應該協調經濟部和內政部是不是能夠妥善處理事業廢水那這要怎麼妥善處理呢我認為第一步是全面盤點全國工業區的污水下水道系統這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4241.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4264.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第二個是要逐步建置聯合污水的處理設施所以這兩個部分到底未來的主管機關會是誰就是我今天要跟您就教的最大的重點你可以今天沒有答案但這個問題我們會繼續保持追蹤這就是需要行政院的高度去統籌各個部門讓現在沒有主管機關的單位能夠有明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4268.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4292.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
負責人 然後他才有辦法下去推動這樣大片的事務這是我今天跟你討論的部分所以 麗讓我希望 現在是有一個專案小組在處理這樣那我想剛剛委員的意見我們會把這些意見好 我希望能夠有答案就下個會期之前是不是可以提供一個書面的目前的資料到我們辦公室我們就這個問題繼續討論好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4303.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4327.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好 接著請張日輪委員好 謝謝主席有請行政院龔秘書長好 請龔秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4333.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4347.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
張委員早好秘書長今天是中華民國一百四年一月二號首先祝在座的各位委員同仁政府官員以及媒體朋友新年快樂希望大家在新的一年都可以平安健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4348.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4376.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那昨天也是這個114年的元旦賴清德總統在總統府發表以民主厚實國力移向世界新局的新年談話總統府跟行政院的網站都有轉貼扣掉題目全文總共2975字很可惜沒有提到任何一次中華民國一次都沒有出現過所以本席要跟秘書長請教說希望說在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4378.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4404.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
元旦發表談話的時候可能說中華民國還是我們的家沒有國就沒有家所以希望說各部會不要只有在單位預算上有寫中華民國四個字那總統的元旦談話也說立法院所通過的爭議法案行政院有權提出復議提供立法院重新審視的空間憲政機關也可以提示憲通過憲法法庭判決明確憲政分際維護憲政秩序鞏固 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4408.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4424.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
憲政體系所以我現在要請教秘書長就賴清德這麼有談話行政院是不是已經對於去113年12月20日我們所通過的憲訴法才化法跟拳霸法要提出復議有要提復議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4426.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4455.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
因為其中兩個法案基本上我們還沒收到文行政院還沒收到文所以要等到收到文看實際的內容是不是有自然難行的部分我們才可以進一步看要怎麼處理好那關於限訴法的部分今天行政院院會的確是有排一個議案是要提出覆遇不過最後的結果還是要行政院院會討論完結束以後決議以後才能夠確認這件事情好那我請問秘書長以限訴法提出覆遇的原因為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4456.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4476.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為限訴法的規定只是說從原有人數改成法定人數三分之二嘛您覺得提出附議的道理請您解釋這難道不是立法委員的職權嗎來請解釋就是說對行政部門來講的話通常在憲法法庭裡面我們要嘛就是被告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4477.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4503.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我們通常是被告的很多因為現在有好幾百案正在在審理當中要嘛就是我們告人家的所以我們變成是當事人那如果當事人這個這個憲法的法庭他的運作如果沒有辦法運作的話那我們當事人我們的權益會受到一些傷害那您清楚總統評別大法官的名單被三黨全數否決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4505.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4525.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我知道對啊那你在兩個月內趕快再提出大法官的人選就好啦所以你還是認為復議是有道理的還是你是接受到哪一位長官或是總統給你的下令沒有沒有沒有因為現在開行政院院會嘛他已經排入議程那就要看行政院院會處理的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4526.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4550.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
來看好 這個秘書長還是希望說你們可以給一個完整的答覆為什麼限訴法你們認為要提附議有自愛難行之處其實大法官提好提滿是大家人民所能接受的不要是廢死大法官其實大家都可以接受這提醒秘書長第二個總統說才化法需要冷靜再思考為國家尋求長治久安之道請問何謂冷靜執政黨現在有版本出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4552.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4575.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
因為還是一樣就是說我們要收到這個正式的函文來以後我們才可以依據裡面的內容來做相關的判斷或處置但是大概有概略性的是有是有這個可能的影響是有做一些估算好因為最近大家其實媒體也吵得紛紛擾擾請問這個主計處有算出來這個財化法最後的結論的時候每個部會要各減28%的預算有算出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4582.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4585.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這是主委總書提供的資料都預算出來了所以你們會自己先砍28%的預算每個部會 每個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4588.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4612.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
沒有就是我剛才特別提到就是我們要看到正式的新聞以後才有辦法做更進一步的精算所以秘書長我覺得你今天的準備還是這個沒有很很充足啊所以我當然說希望當然希望說這個秘書長你要有肩膀那我總要問你一個問題就是說針對上次的內政委員會在12月18號下午4點當時這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4615.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4643.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
學信委員那時候砍了要開會當時有一位秘書長就是您第一個就到回到我們內政委員會坐在第一個位置我還記得那時候我拿起電話打電話說怎麼你一個人到場我那時候我看那個樣子好像你是說你怎麼只有一個人到場其他人都還沒到結果後來所有的行政院的官員才到現場請問你是後來好像聽媒體報導你接到一通電話就起身離開請問那通電話是誰打給您的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4646.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4653.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
為什麼您到現場決定要開會而且還要打電話請大家回來以後是誰打給你通電話要求你要離開?是我辦公室同仁他是你下屬還是行政院長? |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4665.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4691.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
不是 就是我辦公室裡面的他是用什麼回覆回覆給你說要你離開他提醒我他是提醒我說現在是不是他要我確定說我會留在這邊還是因為我行政院有會議大家在等我回去開會他問我說好 所以你的意思是說有其他的其他的會議是比立法院請你提出相關預算的質詢還要重要那請問你是什麼會議他請我去 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4693.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4710.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
他請我確認就是說我要回去開會還是說要繼續留在這邊他沒有請你離開啊沒有 他誤我嘛他誤我說我要繼續留在這邊開會還是那你的回應是你要離開對 後來我決定要離開為什麼 離開的原因還是沒有回應對 我剛才特別提到的就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4714.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4732.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我在就是九點我就來八點多嘛我一直來一直等一直等等到了兩點多表定的這個會議結束以後那這時候的螢幕事實上還顯示會議尚未開始我離開的時候那時候已經兩點多了會議還沒有開始所以我就離開了我想說今天的議程就完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4734.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4760.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
等到後來等一下秘書長你前後矛盾你一開始說你的同仁打電話給你問你有沒有其他的回應你聽我講完後來徐昭偉他在就是徐昭偉在4點16分的時候他進入了那個好秘書長我跟你講我相信這等一下徐昭偉會親自問你因為這是你不尊重我們這個立政委員會的昭偉主席也有打給你可是你離開可是今天的重點專案報告是有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4762.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4779.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這個霸凌案的部分所以我想要請因為我希望行政院不要只會提呼籲霸凌案應該也要趕快來去處理針對最近幾個案子有關於這個秘書處的這個徐處長的事情現在我想要請教徐處長在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4788.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4803.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好 秘書長要幫徐處長回答嗎我請教就媒體所披露的他有這個讓這個斷肢的工友下跪痛哭酒醒才能掉職有這件事情嗎這件事情後來怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4805.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4816.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
報告委員那個是這樣據我的了解就是說因為這位同仁他要調職我只請教有沒有他下跪痛哭求情才能夠調職這件事情我們處長說他說他要下跪我們處長說我們一起跪 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4821.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4849.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
因為這個工友對這個缺品是一切不可那怎麼會讓一個工友好 第一件事怎麼會讓這個工友下跪痛哭絕情才能調職這第一個問題那第二個問題也是媒體所披露的就是跟同單位的誠信資訊長這個比 我認為比霸凌還要嚴重可是在今天的調查報告裡面完全沒有寫對於這個不免令的事情其實剛剛這個徐處長也有想要跟我解釋那我只是想問徐處長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4851.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4870.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
為什麼會在這個7月26跟8月1號兩次質詢徐耕成下班後到閒置的副院長官邸約會?請問到底是在做什麼?那在裡面待了一個半小時到底在做什麼?可以這樣子公器私用嗎?而且還在下班時間這樣子難道秘書長你還要偏袒他嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4872.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4897.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
因為是講說因為那個時候這個房屋要修繕修繕一個半小時他要檢查去看就是說了解一下情況是這樣那另外一同仁他是承辦人當然處長去承辦人也要去要不然怎麼樣去說怎麼樣去維護這個這個修繕的工作因為這個已經發包了已經要確定要怎麼做了要趕快確定下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4899.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4921.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那我再請教喔 請問秘書長你要繼續回答嗎那我請教喔 那我因為時間的關係喔那請問他們在媒體裡有說這個在吃早餐每天都要在早上吃早餐 而且要把門關起來中午要吃中餐沒有這件事所以媒體批調是錯的嗎沒有這件事 對好 那我是用一點時間好 我是不是可以請徐署長來接受質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4925.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4942.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好 徐處長因為時間的關係我看到報導裡面有講其實你的個性其實是很溫馴的我是不是給你最後的時間因為我覺得不倫立的這件事情受傷最大的就是你的家人是不是給你一段時間讓你跟你的家人可以說幾句話好 感謝委員讓我有這個時間來說明這一切 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4947.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4962.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那個暴早7月25號不是7月26號我們進去寓所各位都知道7月26號是颱風天颱風過近之後其實我們上班後的第一天我們秘書處是最忙的我們到處去善後 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4963.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4984.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那7月26號那一天,其實一整天都在善後到了下班前,懲判同仁跟我講說我們那個寓所還沒有處理那接下來就是禮拜六禮拜天他不想要拖過兩個假日禮拜一再去處理他跟我說他要先去看一下所以懲判人是相當負責任的懲判人 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4985.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5012.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
他跟我說完之後其實我當初還在忙我就說好您先去我等一下公事忙完我就去可是事實上我心裡內心是在想說讓一個女孩子自己去預鎖我是不太放心的所以他去了沒有多久我就我公事處理完我也就跟著去了去了之後發現那個烏瓦破了一個大洞那個整個天花板已經是垮下來了我這邊都有檢附照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5014.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5033.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那8月1號呢8月1號各位可以看一下8月1號是過了一個禮拜因為其實那個中間我那個烏瓦的處理因為我們馬上就要大修了所以說我們就自己用簡易的修繕方式處理7月26號的時候我是用一個塑膠布蓋在上面然後拿一個烏瓦蓋著 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5034.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5054.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那8月1號的時候各位去看一下天氣那天是下雨的一樣的狀況我們想說下雨的時候所以去看一下組長這個細節的部分我希望說會後時間關係會後提書面資料再給本席到底在裡面一個半小時是多少所以您剛我想要請你對您家人說幾話所以你認為你是沒有任何的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5056.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5084.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
當然沒有任何的問題我是覺得這個報宅對我的家人還有同仁都造成了莫大的傷害這個我希望希望能夠還我一個清白謝謝好 謝謝處長那今天時間的關係我希望說未來還是要有這個跟下屬的分際那我需要說新的一年大家很多事情一起繼續努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5091.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5094.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好那我們接下來請麥玉珍委員謝謝主席有請秘書長請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5113.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5114.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
想要請教一下我們要省114年度的中央政府的預算你覺得這個重不重要還是說只是過水而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5130.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5148.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
當然是重要的當然是重要的嘛但是重要為什麼剛才我們有委員問在12月18號剛才你有自己有說你就有說會議還沒有開始會議還沒有開始你可以撈跑嗎你可以離開嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5151.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5154.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
報告委員因為那個表定的時間會議到兩點所以他已經超過兩點了超過兩點但是我們總召也有我們的召委也有打電話給你請你回來當他在這裡的時候他可以公佈我們的會議延期啊延長啊對不對但是他回來的時候也看到你在這裡啊我們其他的人也有人在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5178.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5206.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以說他是還沒有開始他可以進來說他開始啊所以但是你接到一通電話你說辦公室的辦公室的人就可以指令說你要回去開會嗎但是你今天你要來這邊開會是你主要的開會啊不是說你要隨時都可以離開說要去別的地方開會啊不是嗎因為按照這個這個沒有因為也沒有理由啊事實上你就是要留下來這邊開會的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5208.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5210.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以一通電話就可以說叫你回去開會你就回去了嗎不是到兩點的時候會議還沒開始超過兩點的時候超過但是你還是留下來表示你有負責任所以要留下來繼續開會嘛但是你看到我們召委又來這邊了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5226.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5228.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
但是後來他打電話給你 你也說要回來後來我們也確實也回來開會回來開會 我還在我們的協商那邊我們要協商 還沒有協商完我有邀請說 我們所有的內政委員趕快回來開會 我們內政要開會了但是我們民進黨的委員沒有回來國民黨的委員就回來 連我也回來開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5251.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5254.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以在你落跑之前 還有一些我們還堅守崗位的行政員員很負責任也是留下來後來呢 也接到一通電話 他們也陸陸續續的也離開了是你指示嗎 還是說他們自動自己就想回去就回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5274.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5289.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
沒有指示沒有指示但是他們自動回去的嘛如果是這樣子的話我們是可以隨時就是要來開會就要回去就回去所以沒有任何的規定就對了如果你覺得是這樣子的話我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5290.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5295.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
還要省預算嗎還是乾脆就是不用省了所以照我們想要你們想要編怎麼編就怎麼編我們就是反正就是編就是你們想要的嘛過就會過不過也不會說不會過啊因為說不會過的話你們就說自愛難行啊一堆嘛所以再來問你的就是說我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5318.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5335.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
五軌搬運的小金庫就是你們的第二億倍金變成就是單位的小金庫想要拿就拿在你知道113年我們第二億倍金編列了多少錢嗎沒有編列在行政院本部的預算裡面是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5342.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5348.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
確定喔確定不是我們行政院的你可以查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5359.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5374.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
不是編在我們院本部的預算所以沒有在今天的這個不是在今天但是這個也是我們政府的預算之一你說不是但是我們編列多少你是不知道這個是編列了74億 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5380.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5407.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
第二億北京你說不是我們行政院的不是院本部的但是這個也是我們的總預算裡面的第二億北京所以呢我們是編列了71億你知道嗎我們是在113年所以不是我們行政院這邊的管轄區所以說你不知道所以在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5409.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5417.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
113年我們編列了74億但是我們用的一倍金只有20億 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5421.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5426.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
還有就是大概20億到24億所以還剩下多少還剩下了50多億113年還剩下50多億但是今年我們第二的預備金的金額我們114年再編列了80億編列了80億多出了去年的6億 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5449.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5471.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個原因你應該也不知道是不是對你應該也不知道因為這個是整個總預算裡面你都不會注意到這些你覺得這個是是說多出來的話就是浮邊就是要應用到但是我們看到的是這樣子你說的不知道也不知道這個但是呢要跟你報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5472.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5481.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
在我們112年交通部他們中央七鄉署辦理七股七巷雷達捐魚的更新計劃他們編了兩千兩百多萬但是呢又在112年又申請了三千多萬就是用二倍金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5500.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5502.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
還有連續兩年他們已經有編列那麼多錢了連續兩年還在申請農業部他們已經在編列112年也編列了5億但是又連續112年13年再來申請14億 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5519.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5526.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
還有我們的農糧署每年編列了10億但是呢就連續同樣的東西再來申請3億這些你都不知道是嗎所以說這個一倍金你覺得不是你的管啥區也你不知道這個一倍金是不是今年就80億就全部減累了 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5548.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5551.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
因為越來越多嘛沒有用到去年就剩下50億今年還要編80億所以說我們的政府的錢都可以隨便服編都可以編一編我編嘛你們要剪也是剪我的一些皮馬而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5567.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5577.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
因為一倍金是說因應於氣候變遷或者是救災防護它的需要所以通常會稍微寬裂一點事實上沒用到也繳回舊庫但是我們這三四個單位三四單位他們來去申請這樣的一倍金如果他們每年編列不足他可以再編列但是他們編列那麼多錢了還同樣的同樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5596.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5619.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
的項目再來應用這個一倍金所以我覺得這個部分我們是行政院是管理各部會所以我們要了解說各個部會來去編列預算該不該編有一倍來去用但是沒有用到那麼多還剩下50多億我們今年還在去 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5622.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5628.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
編了80億其他的不會再來去申請自己有編列那麼多預算了還是所以這邊這小金庫比就業暗地基金還好用啊是不是這樣子的意思所以說我們的秘書長今天來審我們的預算覺得很多應該不用審了因為有很多你都不知道以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5652.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5654.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
好,請王美惠委員主席,我們家秘書長請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5669.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5678.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
王委員早 民事長早 民事長本來在這裡想跟你探討一個霸凌的問題我認為我們要有積極 因為本來跟你說的你以後來做秘書長 但是我現在跟你說的應該你知道發生在嘉義 在嘉義發生的時候是2021年 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5697.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5704.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
到已經上去法院懲罰會的時候,是一定是二孔二十年所以中間三年多,他有覺得說,這個補償跟這個儲償,有不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5716.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5720.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以本市要跟你說發生一件事可以去改進做到不對的人是要有股票是沒有不對但是要趕快去做因為本市覺得說我們有一點冠冠雄厚因為畢竟主管單位都認為我在這裡我做很久的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5745.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5751.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
跟你們這麼簡單的找到工卡機關有時候因為我們最基本的資產的官工都臨了都想說我這麼簡單的還要去找這個工卡機關所以他臨也臨臨到 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5770.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5773.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
有什麼定情,他也不知道要定情去對,所以必須要,在我本身剛才講到現在,現在以這個教育的處境,如果想要請這個代理老師的家屬,在那裡,藍胸的來賣, |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5794.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5805.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
要不然他現在現有在一個官司做教育處長這樣是不是應該來 秘書長你回答一下謝謝委員的提醒所以為什麼就是說基層員工我們擔心就是在機關內部他有他的申訴管道原來本來就有我們很擔心就是說就像您剛才講基層員工他可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5821.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5845.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
不方便或不太敢向上反映所以我們在行政院為什麼要架一個通報平台你不用在你內部你從外面就是我們申報平台然後這個案件我們就會立案來要求他一定要做處置而且要求他一個月之內就要調查結果讓我們知道所以不會拖那麼久當然後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5847.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5870.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所有的所有的公務員還有一些申訴管道那是另外的我們講說行政部門的部分我們處理至少一個月最多最多可以再加一個月你去行政調查或是處理一定要有結果那我們就不會拖那麼久馬上那如果真的很需要的時候我們當場就會把他們的職務做一個調動讓他們不會有一個重組關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5873.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5876.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
因為畢竟本身在這裡跟你說因為沒說沒事情講下去霸凌,這個台語也霸凌,這個台語也霸凌,這個台語也霸凌到底是之前的起伏主觀的霸凌還是主觀起伏之前的霸凌,大家都分不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5898.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5910.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
也願意的霸凌 像剛才所說的你說主管單位 加工藥照的規律說實在的 必須當這非常嚴重的因為我們的中央就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5914.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5918.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
港幼依卻不補嘛 大家都會想說 跟大家再拖好好的你如果找到的時候 我就選一個 當時來到三港做工會都願望可以留下嘛 要不然本身要找的人 一定會覺得 主觀來的刁難嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5937.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5942.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
包括本縣的服務處 也遭到討責的說跟我說新簽要做 跟我說已經在家裡在高雄來台北來台中來新北做很久的工作了也希望可以當家裡的服務 也能照顧家裡的士大人要不然 我要住的時候 我的主管不想放人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5967.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5970.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
秘書長有這個問題你知不知道報告委員的確是有但是據我我在公務機關已經8年多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5977.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5992.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
但到後來都會都會讓他掉啦到後來啦 只有合法和純粹我是知道這個是苦求的 也是歡喜求的因為當然是未來到後來他也會掉到回去但是在這個過程當中對於要掉到回去的人說實在 如何煎熬啊真的 我覺得畢竟有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6006.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6013.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
問題,我們要好好去關心,好好用主觀去跟要調的人了解一下,不然有時候誤差很大,很大的,會發生,我也要問這個,你如果有新的霸凌單位,要申訴的,要不然我看看,你們到底有多少單位,在一個單位可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6036.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6037.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
在公家機關可以以霸凌隱秘性的來 必須請你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6046.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6063.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們要求就是通報平台轉譯的一定是要是保密系統保密系統就是接觸的人他就有保密義務所以基本上他會受到一些保障因為我是怎麼說呢因為有很多我們的電競當中我今天去電競明天的後天我都沒有任何人說我自己去電競而已今天明天的後天主管又找我 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6076.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6077.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這也很奇怪,我沒有來任何人講,我把聽證你們的單位,主管又來找我,這所以你們要注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6089.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6094.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主席 還有10分鐘時間在這裡必須聽剛才說的 你們要詳細去研究更好更快的不要再讓這個事情來發生 要怎麼去做第二點就是剛才蘇朝偉委員有說說到我們的生活的汙水吸收得很好 因為我們國土屬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6115.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6117.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
現在就是像我在嘉義市嘉義市的北京路有很多與眾公寓的區域他們的工廠在做英文一條大排排出來都炒公公你們現在叫我們要改進要改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6136.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6139.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟英國沒辦法改善 我說是不是我們有一個管道因為它也年久過前三四十年 四五十年我們的政府單位是不是想要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6152.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6158.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
生活汙水下水道一樣因為我為什麼跟你說到這因為國發會都是在管理任何的問題所以你轉換來做秘書長的時候我相信你對這個地方的建設非常了解所以我在這裡要拜託秘書長對教育器 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6179.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6182.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
的污水下水道跟水壓的造業出來擺出來我們也可以同仇來改善不要幫人家說水壓他們造的人來改善這樣因為都不會改善啦這也會對整個的教育區應用很大的啦好不好 必須聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6206.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6214.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
因為過去的確是這樣就是說我們有補助我們有編列預算讓地方政府來做這樣的事情那顯然這樣方式還不夠不夠啦不夠啦所以下一階段我們可能跟地方政府看看要溝通怎麼樣協調一個更好的經濟的機制因為我覺得環境是永續的要做不是我們的生活會有水而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6234.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6236.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
接下來請張宏祿召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6271.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6273.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
其實我們今天講霸凌其實我覺得在各個領域各個區塊都會有發生這種事吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6291.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6318.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
因為我們這邊是職場就是在職業場合裡面如果有上屬跟下屬不是啊我說在各個領域都會各個各個地方都會有吧對都有都有可能對嘛但行政院當然是這個全國最高行政機關尤其是在公務人員裡面我們的公務人員裡面有相關的法規裡面其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6321.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6338.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
長官交代的事情或什麼只要不違法是不是也要盡全力做到要不要因為依法行政依規定辦理只要按照這個法律跟相關規定來辦理那這個就是我們要把事情做好的對嘛但啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6340.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6360.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
只要人多啊 事情就多啦那在這個情況之下 這個霸凌的分界我覺得啦 即使行政院也有一個責任像我們推性平 我們也是推了很久大家才清楚的知道 那一條線到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6362.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6379.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
對不對那現在大家在講霸凌我覺得霸凌是不應該的但是那一條線秘書長你敢說我們全國的公務人員或是我們全部的各個不同的地方大家都很清楚知道那一條線在哪裡了嗎因為類似的案件它的形態是非常非常多元所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6387.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6409.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
恐怕沒有辦法一刀說切下去這個是或不是所以為了怎麼樣經過專案小組的調查了解事實的真相以後才有辦法做一些判斷當然現在這個地方法院過去也有判例可以提供我們指引做參考比如說他是有連續性的針對特定的對象然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6410.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6429.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
在形成那樣的一個給他壓力身心上的一些壓力的條件等等的一些情況那作為一些判斷的基準而已啦但是還是要看那個調查委員調查小組他們在做調查的時候事情的緣由等等的情況才有辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6429.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6446.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
秘書長你說的是在處理事情的部分我現在要跟你探討的是我跟你講說行政院是有這個責任要去把這條線盡量把它切清楚那就像剛剛你說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6447.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6461.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
有很多判例有很多什麼的或是你們調查了之後的結果什麼你們應該要把它列出來哪一些就是哪一些就是然後讓全國的行政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6462.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6487.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
至少有一個不是百分之百的那一條線但至少有一些準則你讓主管也可以知道讓一般的公務人員 基層的公務員也可以知道到底哪些是哪些這樣子他被欺負也可以申訴那當主管的也可以知道說哪些事情不該做我覺得現在應該要把這個放一個很重要的一塊吧 秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6490.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6507.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們現在案件如果蒐集夠多的話它的樣態就會比較清楚那我們可以把哪些樣態是屬於霸凌的哪些是不可以做的也許我們會匯整起來然後對所有的公務機關來做一些發布或是讓民眾了解這個我們會積極的來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6509.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6526.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
但是因為現在還在調查過程當中我想過了這段時間我們比較明確以後確立案件以後我們就可以歸納出來秘書長我不是叫你現在馬上做嗎我們說的是這個我當然知道可能要 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6527.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6548.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
幾個月或一點時間去做嘛但你現在就要交代人家去做了嘛從判例從什麼從各方面嘛然後也不要說我要等到幾樣幾樣你才要有個幾個案例有個幾個你們整理一下就可以讓大家知道了啊對不對不是要收集到完全啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6549.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6570.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我覺得尤其現在大家在關注的有哪幾個有哪幾個讓大家知道全國的公務體系就讓大家全部都知道啊這樣不就好了嗎一步一步做啊我剛說的性評我們也是努力了那麼多年啊沒有不可能讓你一次100分啊但至少要做啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6572.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6594.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
現在人總的確是有在這樣做處理那至於說怎麼樣對外說明我想這個部分我們再跟人總討論一下就像您講的可能他可以階段性的逐步的對外說明本來就要階段性啦不要一步一步啦不然現在大家人家怎麼做事情對不對整個公務體系那麼多而且你公務體系定下去之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6595.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6619.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所有的民間企業也是有個標準在啊對不對 我覺得要做的就是這個啦這才是我們要去做的重點嘛 好不好另外啦 剩下一點資料我們行政院有成立各支保護委員會 對不對現在是各支辦 現在在籌設委員會未來會成立嘛 各支辦嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6621.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6639.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
像現在我們修法過之後這個如果要罷免要什麼要有身份證這個未來會不會有人假冒去擺攤然後怎麼去獲取個資這個是有可能發生的你們應該要及早因應吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6642.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6661.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
了解就是說因為理論上來講的話所有的收集個資的話是不必要的個資都不要收集啊當然您剛才提到那個應該是那個是跟公投有關嗎還是罷免嗎罷免或公投嗎將來如果需要的話可能怎麼樣的一個機制那我想我們跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6663.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6682.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
中選會或內政部來進一步的做一些討論我覺得要及早因應啦一定會有人這樣子做的啦如果我們講的不好聽一點的如果你是詐騙集團他也不會跟你講說他是詐騙集團他就在那邊擺攤啊那他就可以拿到你的資料啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6684.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6700.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這一點一定要及早因應我覺得要趕快訂出那個規範來人民的權利要受保障但政府我們也應該預期會發生什麼事情這一點我覺得可能要及早因應 好不好好的 謝謝好 接著請牛許庭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6716.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6718.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
謝謝主席 郭秘書長有請好 請秘書長你好很早秘書長 早安今天終於見到你了 我很高興謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6730.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6748.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這個沒關係我們針對今天的主題我們先來做一下探討 當然討論是霸凌案那個案的部分我們就不多說了但是我們要求的是你的系統性的東西我們要做一個清楚明白的說明在你這個書面報告裡面講嘛因應這個勞動部的這個不幸的霸凌事件發生之後你做很多的改善措施包含這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6750.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6777.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個研討研議強化法治事宜包含提升公務人員的職業安全思考在法治下強化監督檢查等課則機制並且加強提供心理健康支持關懷諮詢啊心理健康資源啊友善觀念宣導等等還有比較重要而且是大部分人比較關切的其實是所謂的院程級的職場霸凌案件通報平台在12月13號上路對不對我目前講的沒有錯吧這都是你的書面報告裡面的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6778.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6800.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
其中在這個職場霸凌通報平台裡面講說三天之內就要回覆初步受理情形一個月之內要給社會大眾一個清楚明白的交代對不對這是當初我想這是卓院長開出的軍令狀當然就應該來做執行現在有這個單一窗口可以提出申訴但是本席今天在質詢的時候要強調的是說除了被霸凌者的主動通報之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6801.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6812.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
其他的改善措施我們先從主動通報這件事情來討論一下12月13號你這個通報平台上路之後總共受理了多少件處理的結果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6814.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6832.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這段時間很短沒關係是是是他有會診啦因為有些人一案多報或是其他資料來源會診完以後現在大概有一百二十幾個案子有二十幾個案子一百二十幾個案子一百二十幾個案子你的你都能在三天之內回報初步處理結果嗎他們處理就是說要不要立案 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6834.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6856.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
要不要立案?什麼意思?因為有一些是匿名啊有一些是市政怎樣就是如果是如果它是具名一定是立案但是有很多才是匿名那匿名的話就要沒關係具名現在立案的有幾件?現在不是現在就是具名的就是120幾件具名的120幾件非常好按照你當初的軍令狀一個月之內要回報處理結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6858.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6881.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這個一百二十幾案有沒有必要跟社會大眾做一個說明也展現一下你這個平台的執行成效因為十二月十三開始然後一百多件差不多了還剩兩個禮拜的時間調查的過程基本上它內容是屬於各自的部分屬於密件我們會人種的部分會持續的監督就是說回報處理的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6883.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6909.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
持續的檢討回報處理結果對對對那我們會定期的對外來說一些公佈好你第一次打算對外做一次總體的公佈去展現這個平台處理成效的時間預計是什麼什麼時候欸這個我可能要跟人總討論一下又要討論對這樣是不是有點可惜啊因為他的行政作業我必須還是得要好沒關係至少今天在這個委員會答詢的時候有很有意義的數字啊叫一百二十幾件的具名已經立案的案件嘛但是這樣子這個我要提醒祕書長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6910.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6929.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我要提醒秘書長就是說這個東西不是說你內部調查調查完然後照你這個立案然後就把它結了就算了那這樣本質上這整件事情還是在這個從社會大眾的角度來看它還是屬於一個黑箱的狀況嘛因為你怎麼處理的你到最後怎麼樣你也不見得有一個對外說明的機制我現在講的是這個事情已經不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6929.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6945.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
按照過去公部門處理的流程或什麼可以讓社會大眾幸福的所以你現在這個報名平台有成立你就要有一個定期對外的說明機制你要不要針對這個對外的說明機制你們現在針對這個事情的SOP也好時間表也好你們是怎麼抓的要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6947.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6962.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
報告委員我想這個部分因為我剛才特別提到怎麼樣對外說明這個部分我們還是要跟人總這邊做一些討論那剛才講那實際的調查的狀況我們是有是有在follow你 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6963.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6981.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我的意思是說我當然給你一點時間給你一點空間是沒有問題但是這個對外說明的機制要非常的清楚這件事情要稍微公開透明不能再用黑箱的方式處理這是本席的第一個提醒主動通報到底有多少成效我們來追蹤第二個我要再問秘書長你覺得真的整個公部門你這麼大一部國家紀真的只有120案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6982.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7004.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
報告委員我剛才說明了這個120幾個案子不是行政院所屬機關因為它還包括了地方政府當然啦現在中央的部分大概是50幾案地方政府大概30幾案我現在問的是說你現在這是有通報的嘛以你在官場的這樣的經驗你真的覺得大家因為有這個平台就通通會通報嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7006.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7032.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
應該不會吧我們是鼓勵啦鼓勵嘛對不對你也只能講鼓勵對不對那不敢通報的狀況你怎麼處理你覺得這個會不會是所謂的冰山一角一百二十案敢通報其實下面一千多案不敢通報本席還是認為非常高的可能是這樣所以除了你這個平台的處理機制之外不能只有這個平台我們剛剛看到你的各項策進措施裡面本席覺得比較有待嘉獎或者是有待討論的地方是如何辨識職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7034.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7058.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
如何讓大家從不敢通報然後變成說比較敢講出自己的委屈讓公部門的文化來做一個改變這本席提供你幾個建議啦這曾經在考試院的質詢的時候本席也提過辨別職場霸凌的情況也就是說你從領導這個國家機器的這個角度來看第一那些單位不管他是中央政府的部會還是地方政府的特殊單位那個單位的離職率啊調職率啊有沒有異常的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7059.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7084.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
你看看當初的勞發署他是不是離職率非常異常當然我們這是事後爆發悲劇之後大家回頭去看才發現但他山之石嘛既然有這樣的案例是不是要做一個通盤的檢討第二烤雞的部分是很重要的我現在很擔心啊這公部門之所以會霸凌然後大家敢怒不敢言或者是有委屈往肚子裡吞那就是因為烤雞抓在長官手上萬一有像謝怡榮這種擅長向上經營的這種人 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7086.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7107.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那壓力是很大的烤雞的部分要不要透明一點有沒有一個改善的機制那第三才是說個別公務員的工作量啊效率等等這就比較細節了但是大多數這樣的一個精進措施你們現在行政院裡面有沒有討論也就是說在平台主動通報沒有辦法觸及到或者是沒有辦法改善的文化的部分識別的部分你們有什麼加強的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7110.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7137.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
事實上人事總署他有您剛才提到的比如說離職率比較高的部分或怎樣人總如果發生這樣的狀況會讓這個所屬機關讓他理解說我們有注意到你們這邊離職率是比較高但是我跟委員報告離職率比較高不一定就是跟霸凌有同等關係當然嘛有可能是泄漢嘛有可能是很多的員工被挖角因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7139.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7146.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個單位事實上他的員工非常非常優秀所以到處被挖走了所以當然你整個這麼多的部會這麼多的機關我們剛剛講的是特殊狀況嘛你看你如果講說過去有這個狀況勞發署的狀況你們有發現嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7153.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7175.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那個離職率非常高的狀況有發現嗎?人總有發現嗎?這個我要跟人總要確認所以這個本來就是應該要列入督導的對象那我就要問啊如果說你這個行政機關除了讓他主動通報之外你還要主動掌握對不對那你現在在主動掌握徹底了解這樣狀況的時候是由誰來追蹤是由哪一個譬如說政務委員或是誰來做督導你們現在有沒有討論這件事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7176.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7196.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
現在的追蹤機制就是人事總署因為它是人事是一條邊的所以它等於是所有的人事的體系裡面它是一個最頭所以基本上現在就是由人事行政總署來督導對不對然後把這些東西來做執行那你什麼時候可以提供一個我們剛剛有講我想秘書長應該不會反對啊這個調職率離職率特殊狀況主義拿出來討論的你總有一些數據的收集吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7201.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7207.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你覺得應不應該做一下掌握應該要掌握對不對好我給你一點時間但你什麼時候可以把這樣子的一個報告交出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7209.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7232.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
就是說所謂的我姑且稱之為霸凌高風險或者是說職場相對不友善這個名字怎麼舉我沒有意見但是這樣一個機制要出來人事行政總隊來做OK那你什麼時候可以提出一個初步的報告可以可以但是我跟委員報告我們會有附註說明就是說經過了解以後離職率比較高他跟霸凌事實上還是不太一樣你跟我講什麼時候有報告就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7236.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7256.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
現在是1月嘛是不是給我們一個月或兩個月的時間好我給你兩個月啦這事情我們長期追蹤但是這兩個月你不只要把這個東西交代出來也就是你的主動追查進度第二個你那個相關的平台的後續處遇啊你要怎麼跟社會大陸來說明啊你要一併把它想越清楚好不好好對不起主席我再用30秒這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7258.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7266.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個我本來期待上禮拜跟你不是前幾天在財政委員會就要問你這個事大家現在在講預算要刪28%我們下午要審你們的預算我們是要統統剪裂28%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7268.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7292.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
沒有啦沒有因為我上次問你的副秘書長啦我問他說這是不是行政院統一的命令因為他們一直在發圖卡然後我問他說是不是在簡歷28他沒有說不要不要我問他說這是不是行政院的命令然後副秘書長的回答還蠻經典他說應該不是然後他說就我所知不是後來變就我所掌握的資料不是他不是領頭我不能為難他但你是秘書長到底是或不是啊你們有沒有下這個令啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7292.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7303.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
沒有沒有要重編沒有要重編對不對也沒有要產28%對不對沒有嘛沒有喔明年的部分沒有明年的部分沒有但是明年的部分沒有嘛對不對那我問你為什麼內政部又跑出來又講要產28% |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7306.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7332.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為在我們那個質詢結束之後第二天內政部就上車了啊第二天趙牙列車翻車了他又上車了怎麼辦如果按照現在我媒體這樣看到如果說現在的這個採訪法會等到後面才送過來的話那我們可能就明年的部分就按照明年現在來處理你趕快對外做一個說明現在我那天答詢的時候副秘書長那個給人家的結論是感覺各部位各搞各的各行其事那你行政院到底有沒有在領導啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7334.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7346.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
如果你講這是你下的令那也就算了各部位只是說明說財務法長期以來可能會造成影響那萬一最後啊萬一最後它不是針對明年萬一最後不是這樣的時候那是不是變造謠政府機關代表照是不對的啊民主黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7347.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7372.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以你趕快趁這個事還沒有塵埃落定之前趕快做同意澄清說明因為當初我們不清楚就是說財務法到底什麼時候會送到我們行政院來什麼時候會公佈實施那個時間點可能會有你很確定行政院沒有下這個令也沒有3288的問題嘛對不對明年的預算你還是希望我們支持預算嘛對不對對那你趕快說明啦不要再讓部會這邊上那個造謠列車的好不好這個監管的力道要稍微加強謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7374.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7392.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
今年了應該是指114吧因為今天已經是是是是是好謝謝好 跟委員會報告黃婕委員詢答完之後我們休息六分鐘讓這個行政單位用洗手間那我們接下來請徐宇珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7401.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7405.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
謝謝主席 我們是不是請龔明欣秘書長好 請秘書長秘書長好秘書長好 秘書長昨天賴清德總統的元旦總統文告裡面有特別提到立法院所通過的爭議法案提到行政院有權提出復議請問今天行政院會對憲法訴訟法提出復議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7427.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7447.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那個行政院會的議程是有排這一項但是要看結果那也就是說今天已經排入議程有可能會提出對憲法宣傳法的複議根據中華民國憲法第57條第一項第三款的規定行政院對立法院決議的法律案 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7447.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7467.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
如認為有至愛難行之處得經總統的核可與決議案送達行政院十日內以請立法院附議那請問秘書長限訴法約束的是憲法法庭開會跟決議的人數由現在的八人改為九人請問有什麼爭議有什麼至愛難行之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7471.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7494.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
剛剛也有其他委員有提問那我是認為我個人認為就是說因為很多的院紀爭議或者是或者是民眾跟政府的爭議都提到了憲法法庭去所以憲法法庭現在應該有一兩百個案子正在審議那基本上行政院要嘛就是被告要嘛就是原告所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7494.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7506.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
他是不是可以運作對我們行政部門的施政是非常重要的事情如果憲法法庭沒有辦法運作的話那這回影響到我們當事人的權益那還是說這個是賴清的總統要求的所以你們才提出這樣的副意 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7515.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7536.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
沒有耶 我們行政院今天的院會我想就會提啊對 就是剛剛講的嘛你說會不會通過不知道嗎顯然是今天會提 那應該也是會提出嘛那而且對於這個行政院對於立法院通過的這個法律案呢本來應該依法執行但是在憲法增修條文沒有修正之前喔附議案如果沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7536.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7552.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
院長最嚴重的部分應該是要辭職那現在當然這個規定已經沒有了所以我們現在覺得行政院對於復議案的提出變得非常的噁心那所以如果這樣的話那行政院長要不要用辭職來表達通過與否的決心呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7554.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7573.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
沒有辦法幫院長好 那你可以轉達給院長因為行政院目前我們看到就是都把復議案當作噁心而且復議復上癮了每一案只要我們立法院通過的決議通通都要提出復議的話那這樣對立法院來說是非常的不尊重那這是卓院長對我們立法院該有的態度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7574.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7586.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
委員因為我們如果今天行政院院員通過提出覆議的話那覆議因為以憲法訴訟法來說真的看不出有什麼自然難行之處也看不出來有什麼爭議所以我覺得既然這個院會是下午會開嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7591.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7613.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
希望大家針對這個部分 行政院應該是要選來了不要再提出複議另外再提到 我想行政院在12月23號有召開記者會當時的發言人有特別提到 還有包括陳淑芝主席長也都有特別提到說財化法修正過後 中央政府每年會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7614.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7641.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
三千七百五十三億所以呢因此法律的這個扣掉法律的義務支出之外必須三減百分之二十八趴然後有哪些會受到影響那請問一下喔 秘書長現在內建部、課委會、經濟部、國科會等部會我們都可以看到在他的官方的臉書網站上面說要依這個百分之二十八的比例調減運算請問一下這好像跟中央廚房一樣喔都一樣的一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7642.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7666.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
政府單位在臉書上公佈那請問這是不是行政院要求他們這麼做我想因為他們我想各部會所要表達的是說他可能的影響那終究還是會有一些影響對中央政府的施政還是會有一些排行上可是剛剛董事長有特別提到了我們現在其實針對這個部分明年100就是今年114年的會受到影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7668.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7678.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
今年不會對 而且這個部分的話是在今年還是要尊重大院的審議結果今年 今年不會受到影響嘛因為審議總預算的結果但是呢 你看喔12月23的時候就是你們的這個行政院的發言人李慧芝喔說要從編那現在當然她硬拗說是當時是假設性的用語啦對 她現在是硬拗嘛那當然釋放這個假訊息 造謠是今年政府應該是打擊的重點吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7698.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7713.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
沒有啦到處都說不能詐騙還有怎麼打詐司法通過那這樣自放假針是一個造謠是不是應該我覺得這樣的發言人不但不適任而且也陷著院長於不義所以這樣的發言人應該是要下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7714.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7740.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那當然針對這個部分我想現在雖然都說114年的預算沒有從編可是我們看到所有這個部會的這個臉書都還是寫著這相關說這個因為如果這個財務法通過之後會三減28%的預算那所以呢接下來哪些案哪些案呢現在有沒有辦法通過那針對這個部分請問秘書長是不是可以要求他們應該要發澄清的帖文不要再這樣誤導民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7742.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7755.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我想這樣就是說因為今年的預算已經在送大會審議了結果要看大會審議的結果但是後年我們從邊如果現在的我們現在講的是2014年吧我們現在講的是2014年不要講到後年 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7759.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7786.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們現在講的是一四年的預算沒有要從邊嘛可是你們現在講的是在各部會在造謠是說要從邊你可以看到我們現在這個有列出來的我們現在有列出來的包括國科會包括經濟部包括課委會講的都是一一四年的預算啊會三減二十八趴啊那所以說接下來下午我們要我們等一下要審這個我們行政院的這個預算那我們要不要照這樣的標準先三減二十八趴呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7788.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7816.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們沒有要重編對 沒有要重編那我覺得有這樣子的謠言也許各部會都誤會這個主計長的意思都誤會了你們發言人的意思那是不是要求他們澄清不要再這樣不實的貼文甚至到地方去的時候在會堪的時候都用這樣的方式去恐嚇人民這是非常不應該的那希望秘書長這個部分要要求各部會要不然就會讓我們覺得這就是行政院的命令那另外再請教一下秘書長就是有關我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7819.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7833.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
總統在昨天的文稿也有特別的對於元旦談話後的接受媒體的提問有提到兩岸是不是要恢復觀光旅遊的議題那總統有說希望能夠開啟觀光的協商那兩岸的觀光團 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7834.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7844.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
在是屬於這個跨部會的議題也涉及國格跟國安所以行政院對此應該要有上位指導的做法那請問一下總統都已經開口要啟動協商請問行政院會有怎麼樣的一個具體的做回我們能不能釋出善意開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7852.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7870.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
因為事實上我們今年2024的入境的旅遊人數預估是1000萬次實際上只有785萬次然後另外呢我們今年1到10月出境的旅客已經達到1416萬多人但入境的旅客只有620萬人所以逆差已經來到790萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7874.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7886.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
496萬多人次也創下歷史新高所以這個逆差推估之後大概會超過7500億所以針對這個部分是不是請民務長認為這個能夠說明一下行政委員有沒有什麼具體的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7888.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7896.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
行政院的一向的立場就是希望兩岸之間可以對等協商那因為觀光的議題來講的話應該是他不開放他們團個到我們這邊來所以這個就 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7904.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7927.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個部分我想其實總統已經講了嘛他希望說可以開庭嘛所以是不是要主動的對我們來去做一個這樣子的一個探討那另外剛剛講的都是入客可是事實上不只入客啊很多國外的觀光客來的也少啊那會有這樣的問題是行政院沒有掌握到還是說你們覺得這個也不重要因為行政院有一個叫觀光振興諮詢會議是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7929.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7932.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
會 會開會 請問一下最近一次 這個是在112年7月20號制定的這個諮詢會議的設計要點那請問到目前為止第一次開會是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7944.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7959.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們很快就會開那就是一年多來一次都沒有開嗎因為專案會議是持續在開啦你剛剛講的那個諮詢會議但是一年多來一次都沒開過對不對最近就會開對那就是一年多來一次都沒開最近才會開那所以你說為什麼我們的觀光會這麼慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7967.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7989.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
就是因為根本行政院也不重視我們的觀光產業要不然怎麼可能這樣的一個諮詢會議一年多了都沒開然後現在說農曆年前要開 是嗎對 那觀光業已經棲產這麼久了所以說希望秘書長能夠正視這個問題那最後再一點時間我想要請教一下就是這個霸凌的事件因為我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7990.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8003.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
今天是我們專案會議的重點就是針對你們因為事實上現在行政院已經有變成職場霸凌的重災區光媒體拼熱的就有三件就是消保處的處長公關處的處長還有秘書處的處長那當根據你們剛剛的報告裡面說兩岸是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8013.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8035.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
兩案是有這個已經立案調查了那秘書處的霸凌案則未有具體的事證剛剛你們的報告是這樣嘛那我想剛剛有一些委員也特別提到你們講說其實從12月7號這個案子發生到至今已經快一個月了那當然我們有提到說秘書處行政院會在一個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8036.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8060.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
要求他們在一個月內提出報告不過我記得卓院長針對其他部位的霸凌案他都要求要一週內提出報告那可是呢反而是行政院院本部都要求一個月才提出報告所以這有一點 這個真的是寬宜慮己 嚴以待人的一個狀況尤其是剛剛聽到這個紐約委員有提到說針對這個部分請教民主黨什麼時候提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8063.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8085.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
你也講說一個月要不要兩個月那其他部會你們要求一週那結果自己院本部為什麼這麼久了還沒提出來人治總署已經對外確定就是一加一就是一個月然後最多可以再延一個月所以當時的院長院長提出一個禮拜嘛那只有你們說要一個月一個禮拜因為說老實話 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8086.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8104.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以我想重點 我想重點也不能都提給外部人 其實外部人我相信都很願意配合這樣的一個霸凌事件所以還是希望 因為從現在 事實上我們現在一連串的這個不管是從不倫戀 霸凌 公器私用 都發生在行政院的院本部所以還是希望我們的這個領導全國部會的行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8108.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8125.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
一定要嚴格的來去處理這樣的問題不要讓霸凌案讓國人看到就是我們的這個讓行政院的公信力降到谷底還是希望秘書長針對這個部分能夠盡快提出不要讓我們的這個這些行政的這個人員都受到這麼大的一個壓力好的好嗎好謝謝秘書長好接下來請李博義委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8141.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8141.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
謝謝請秘書長好請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8148.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8172.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
民主黨你要先感謝主席今天原本在2024年12月18號行政院的114年度的預算報告今天總算可以在這邊報告而且大部分的委員也針對那一天應該要可以跟民主黨這邊可以質詢的內容也都有提出一些質詢那重點還是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8173.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8183.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
他今天雖然排了這個專案報告所以我兩個都講如果沒有這個專案報告今天也沒有辦法質詢到院長的這些內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8184.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8201.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
其實在12月18號的時候很多國民黨委員號稱他們有回來開會質詢他們對著對面沒有人的地方質詢那今天要感謝主席讓秘書長可以在這裡實體的可以接受委員們的質詢所以在這邊我就很認真的來質詢秘書長幾個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8208.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8232.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
幾個問題你沒有辦法回答的第一個財化法跟選罷法那財化法是在財政委員會那選罷法是在我們內政委員會在2024的12月27分別由我們的內政委員會跟財政委員會發文給韓國瑜院長要求暫緩知情總統宣告這兩個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8233.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8251.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
啊只有一個法,爭議的只有一個法,就是限訴法他已經要知情總統宣告了那這限訴法知情總統宣告的意思是什麼就是在你現在大法官只有八個名額的情況下先把你手剁掉,就是說你這八個大法官不能來處理違憲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8252.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8267.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
不能來處理可能才化法或選罷法可能造成的違憲沒有這個法庭了好接下來確定這件事情之後接下來我再來處理才化法跟選罷法當然才化法裡面我很多要質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8269.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8283.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個秘書長的選罷法就是先有可能他有私心因為後面還有一個案子就是選票加得票數加1的這個案子內政委員會還要再等等這個案子一下那才化法呢他就是怕我們接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8284.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8312.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
可能要針對這個憲法訴訟對於立法權是不是嚴重的侵害到行政權的部分那祕書長過去也是我們國發會的主委主管我們台灣非常多的重大建設包含我在上一個會期其實我是在經濟委員會來質詢祕書長有關左營跟男子的幾項建設我想祕書長到現在還是非常的清楚經過這個才化法之後祕書長我想要請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8313.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8327.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
新台17縣在2024年12月初的時候我趕回去我的選區趕回去左營做南段第二段工程的動工新台17縣南段第二段工程中央補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8330.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8340.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
總經費一共28.4億南段二期總經費9.6億總共加起來中央補助的經費有將近14億地方負擔的19.9億加4億未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8350.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8377.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
在這個財化法之後被地方政府拿到了很多這些經費之後中央還有沒有可能這樣子補助那我當然新台17縣必須要在2026年完成通車這個會不會影響到通車的時程這是我非常擔心的第二個捷運子縣在去年的9月份高雄市政府送出可行性評估接下來的綜合規劃包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8379.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8392.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
男子交流道、鐵路立體化這些工程其實都在秘書長在國外會主委任內核准高雄市送出來的這些中央的補助會不會未來產生這些金費的比例的變化秘書長這個要怎麼調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8400.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8416.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我剛才特別說明就是說今年總預算的部分已經在立法院審議那審議最後的結果經費怎麼樣這個就要看大院審議的結果好 今年如果地方建設經費都不要動的話我相信每一個委員都 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8417.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8443.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
申付選民的請託地方建設經費不能少就是明年的部分明年的部分現在我們3月份因為2026年這個新台詞期限要通車今年度你錢沒有花下去明年度怎麼通車這個就是我們最在意的問題會不會錢下放給地方之後那其他縣市有可能每個縣市都希望做軌道 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8443.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8452.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那中央又要在原本的軌道建設的補助的比例下會產生一些變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8453.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8480.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
如果明年如果按照現在才化法的規範目前來講的話明年的確會受到一些影響這樣其實就是嚴重的侵害到中央政府對於全台灣資源以及建設分佈的一個佈局的問題所以才化法嚴重侵蝕到嚴重侵害到行政院對於全台灣建設跟這個佈局的問題我覺得這個要非常的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8481.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8508.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以我們支持行政院必須要用任何方式來提出救濟以利台灣的發展這樣講民主黨你同意嗎是對因為財務法本來他的意思就是要調節不同地方之間的這個盈虧嘛那但是以現在的方案以現在的條文通過的話變成越有錢原來越有錢財政好的這個縣市啊他會越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8509.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8538.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那原來越不好的縣市它的財政狀況就會越糟糕我相對來講如果少掉中央補助的話那這個就跟原來的意思事實上是有一點不是那麼相符在主委你過去幾年在主導的很多台灣的重大建設包含軌道建設的佈局未來其實包含台中也好要拿中央的補助或者是台南或者是高雄也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8539.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8548.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
要拿中央的軌道的補助一定都是減少但是南二都尤其台南跟高雄在這一次統籌分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8549.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8577.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在這一次財化法的分配下分別拿到最後的兩名的補助所以對高雄跟台南來講更沒有主導軌道工程的這些主導能力還有上個禮拜院長剛來到高雄跟我們行政院包含南部服務中心都有到高雄車站來宣布高鐵難移的高雄方案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8578.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8598.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
嚴重都影響到行政院可支配的軌道的能力包含高鐵包含這些軌道運輸我們提出非常憂慮所以這一個財化法的未來的救濟的管道我們還是支持行政院繼續的來用窮盡所有的辦法來處理包含今年度是不是有可能提出追加預算民主黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8601.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8624.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有沒有可能來提出追加預算就是今年的部分因為已經大院在審議預算要看那個預算的結果那如果說今年照原來我們編的部分三減的數目沒有很大的情況之下就可以照原來的計畫來進行那如果財化法那確定公告實施必須要給這些縣市三千多億的話行政院怎麼調整預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8626.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8650.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這個就是我們因為我們還沒有收到那個來文實際上他就說不要去文啊就是要先讓你限訴法先不行啊先不能提訴訟啊沒有來文的話他就沒有生效有一天生效了假設三月生效了你開始要補助地方政府了開始要把這三千多億撥給地方政府了那你中央要原本要補助給縣市政府這些錢不夠了要不要提出追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8651.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8670.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以如果按照這樣來講的話可能包括地方政府他在預算的編列或執行上就會產生很大的困擾包括中央政府跟地方政府哪一些經費原本讓地方政府來做那中央政府這一筆經費就沒有辦法再支出了是不是要朝這個方向還是都還在討論中還在討論當中因為有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8672.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8684.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
有可能如果提了以後我們還是有可能會針對某一些我們沒有辦法執行比較漢格的部分提出復議那大家是不是有重新可以思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8684.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8707.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
最後剛剛國民黨委員有說你是不是要回去建議行政院長要不要辭職其實台灣的憲法的設計是這樣子如果行政院對於立法院提出來的這個法律案認為沒有辦法執行的時候可以提出復議如果這個提出復議在立法院之後立法院對行政院的方式是提出不信任案而不是要求行政院長辭職謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8714.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8716.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好 接著請黃婕委員好 謝謝主席我們請秘書長好 請龔秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8734.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8750.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好 秘書長早喔其實剛剛大家都在談論才化法這也是我今天想要關心的重點那可是呢先講一下說今天其實行政院會有在討論說要把限訴法來提出復議也正在討論中對嗎是的那這個結果大概什麼時候會出來因為院會結束通常 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8757.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8781.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
通常11點應該現在應該可能出來好那當然我要在這邊表達我的支持啦希望等一下院會做成的決議是會堅決的提出復議因為這個不只是剛剛其實秘書長有講到說因為行政院自己是當事人其實不只行政院啦這個對很多人民來說都是當事人因為大家知道說其實會提出釋憲申請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8782.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8798.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
其實有99%的都是受到侵害的人民所以現在這個限訴法造成憲法法庭癱瘓下去影響最大的是多數需要救濟的人民所以不只是行政院我相信很多人民也都希望行政院可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8799.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8822.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
來提出復議然後讓立法院重新的思考說這個憲法法庭真的要癱瘓下去嗎為了要教訓執政黨造成最後教訓到所有的人民嗎所以拜託我也希望等一下你們會堅決的來替人民來發聲然後來提出復議那然後重新來審視憲訴法是不是真的要這樣提喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8823.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8838.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那再來還是要講一下這個才化法因為這個才化法通過之後其實我看各個縣市大家都跳腳包括剛剛有許多國民黨的委員也跑出來急著說為什麼行政院這樣子說今年的預算有可能要重編其實他們重點都錯了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8841.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8866.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
重點不是今年有沒有重編而是未來每一年度的預算是不是都會因為財化法的修正造成垂直分配跟水平分配的差別而進行大幅的預算的調整這個是事實對吧是所以我覺得在這邊也拜託秘書長你們在對外溝通向社會多做說明的時候一定要講清楚說明白 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8867.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8880.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
因為這個我必須要替你們抱屈一下啦因為過去在二讀的時候在委員會之前都沒有好好討論的空間以至於所有的行政部門包括所有的部會包括行政院都沒有機會來到立法院好好表達說這個預算分配重新調整之後會造成什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8888.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8915.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那这个我也是希望接下来行政院对外要多做沟通的部分因为过去确实因为在陈玉珍在财委会的召委的主导之下让你们没有机会去财委会好好的说明甚至连我们高雄市的陈其迈市长特别北上来到财委会也没有机会好好的说明这个是真的非常可惜的部分那现在强硬三读通过之后到底受到什么影响人民是有权利知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8916.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8940.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以現在各個撲配在地方上積極的去表達我覺得這是很正確的事情啊都已經可能受到的影響難道不需要讓人民知道嗎所以我在這邊還是要強烈的譴責國民黨喔怎麼會跟中央搶劫之後又不准中央來在地方上好好的跟大家說明不准被搶劫的人來張揚來好好的說明自己會受到什麼侵害呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8941.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8955.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那我還是要請教一下因為現在看起來國民黨又再一次的毀憲亂政刻意的嚴當不讓財化法跟選罷法送出立法院還要延緩請總統延緩公佈那當然不知道他們什麼時候會來請總統公佈那到時候我們行政院態度到底是什麼有沒有機會來提出復議呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8968.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8992.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
委員因為現在公文就還沒有送到行政院所以行政院也沒有辦法去處理這件事情所以我們只能去評估以現在的方案裡面可能會對我們的影響就像剛才委員提到的可能未來中長期每一年可能我們的預算結構到底要做怎麼樣的調整萬一如果按照原來的版本這樣子實施的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8993.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9002.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我們只能預作一些準備委員剛才聽到說也要把這個準備可能跟地方也好或是民眾來做一些溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9004.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9028.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
秘書長我希望你們再積極一點啦什麼叫做萬一可能叫現在版本通過現在國民黨主導的才化法就已經三讀通過了這個我們高雄的鄉親都非常的覺得很受傷也看不下去喔他們每天都在問我說哇這個才化法公佈之後三讀過後對高雄來說竟然是全國增幅最低的沒有把人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9029.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9039.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
裡面的人口結構放進去然後對高雄來說我們土地面積這麼大這樣的指標也沒有被放進去對高雄來說非常非常非常不公平啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9040.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9062.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
然後到現在 那政院你要告訴我啊 這樣子的結果下去之後是不是對於我們高雄未來正在進行的重大建設都會受到影響你們要告訴大家啊這也是我們高雄人民 高雄市民現在都最擔心的一件事情包括說我們現在正在興建的捷運黃線剛剛博弈委員提到的捷運紫線包括接下來的高鐵南延 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9063.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9088.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這些都是攸關全國然後行經高雄的重大的軌道建設這個一定都要有中央的預算來支持啊這難道不是在跟高雄市民說高雄市民你們是次等公民嗎照這樣的財化法的版本下去就是在跟高雄的人民作對啊所以這個我是希望行政院這邊一定要馬上的試算你們的評估都太慢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9090 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9107.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
造成什麼影響難道我們人民沒有權利知道嗎我們有初步的做一些評估啦那我剛才特別提到就是說我們會針對如果這個文送到行政院我們會針對裡面真的產生自然難行之處提出一些救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9109.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9129.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那這個究竟我們會講得非常清楚這個事情為什麼自在難行包括您剛剛提到的可能會讓比較後面軌道建設比較後面先做的已經做完了但是後面要做的包括高雄台中等等的一些情況他可能會受到一些甚至於新竹他的輕軌都會受到一些影響那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9131.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9150.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們不希望這樣子所以我們會提出一些救濟上的一些方法怎麼樣來做朝野怎麼樣協商更好的一個可行的一些方案出來我們還是朝著這個方向來來進行好這個要拜託秘書長因為我真的很不希望我在這邊很不希望再是 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9151.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9164.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
就是我也不想用譴責的啦可是就是這個才化法通過之後真的對我們南部的鄉親來說真的真的影響太大了我在這邊必須要替我們高雄的鄉親再次的請命 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9165.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9186.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
拜託如果還有轉還的餘地也在這邊拜託所有的我們立法院的同事大家好好重新思考是不是有任何救濟的可能也希望政院窮盡一切的救濟手段讓這樣子的才化法真的不要照這麼惡劣的方式來上路好嗎好謝謝秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9194.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9199.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
好 那我們現在休息六分鐘現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9786.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9789.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那我們繼續開會 接下來請葉元之委員主席好 麻煩請秘書長好 請公秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9808.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9824.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
葉委員好 國務院長先跟你確定一下剛剛民進黨的委員就是說財化法通過之後立刻對地方造成立刻對中央造成危害我想問行政院發言人之前講說財化法造成今年的總預算要重編這個已經被證實是一個假消息了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9825.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9841.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
沒有要從邊嘛沒有嘛那為什麼內政部在前兩天的時候還發臉書說他今年所有的建設都要減少28%包括育兒津貼包括地下污水下水道包括打榨都要減少28%為什麼是要給地方嗎內政部是不是要把28%預算給地方在今年就要給油嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9849.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9864.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
預算現在還在大院審議當中對 如果通過的話如果通過是不是要給地方28%今年有嗎就要看有沒有嘛對 就要看那個文本最後的結果怎麼來認證不是啊 如果通過 都照樣通過有要給28%嗎 有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9867.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9882.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
他如果當時實施那當時實施就沒有實施嘛今年就沒有從編而且也沒有要實施那內政部為什麼要減少28%這他自己要放口袋喔不是沒有這樣我覺得大家針對財化法就就事論事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9883.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9902.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
因為二十幾年前大家都說財務法沒有修嘛那賴清德總統在當市長的時候也說要修嘛對於版本如果有意見大家可以來討論但不用講那麼多政治語言嘛就沒有要減百分之二十八那內政部可以這樣公然造謠喔民主黨你可不可以節制一下你們的政務官啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9904.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9919.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
國民黨修裁劃法就是毀憲亂政民進黨的立委包括之前蘇貞昌在當主席的時候帶著當時的台南市長賴清德說裁劃法十幾年沒修罵那時候的中央說那時候的中央怠惰不願意處理難處理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9921.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9946.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那個時候就不是毀憲亂政現在國民黨修就毀憲亂政我真的很痛心啊看到民進黨的政務官老是政治語言欺騙社會大眾領著民脂民膏拿著納稅人的薪水然後到處欺騙大眾我真的聽不下去啦然後再來秘書長我覺得除了搞政治鬥爭之外行政院應該要注意一個我覺得很 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9947.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9970.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
很危險的現象今天我們的題目叫做什麼霸凌對不對因為我發現行政院有一個部會霸凌很嚴重經濟部你知道為什麼嗎你要去注意一下你知道經濟部次長在郭志輝部長上任之後三個都要走了你知道這是嗎第一個林全仁然後再來陳正琦然後連錦江什麼時候要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9971.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9988.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
大概三月吧三月要走你有看過您當那個政府官應該蠻久的吧在政府機關服務也蠻久的吧你有沒有看過一個部長上任不到九個月下面三個次長都要走人的你有沒有看過你有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9992.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10016.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
可能有個人的規劃嘛當然都個人規劃嘛每一個離職都個人規劃嘛我看到那時候陳正琦要離開的時候郭志輝也是說尊重每一個人的生涯規劃啦每一個要離職的人都是做生涯規劃啦這是標準答案啦可是一個部長上任沒多久三個次長都要離開你們行政院都不會覺得很誇張喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10018.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10035.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們現在在講霸凌為什麼之前大家講勞動部有一個指標說他可能有霸凌就是他流動率很高嘛很多公務人員進到公家機關到了勞動部寧可辭職也不要幹因為霸凌很嚴重嘛那今天經濟部長上任後三個次長離開你覺得都是生涯規劃嗎你真的覺得都是生涯規劃嗎什麼生涯規劃為什麼以前都沒有這個生涯規劃換句話之會以後就有生涯規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10046.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10075.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
你有沒有去了解民主黨你有沒有去了解您是要做各部會協調溝通嘛你有沒有去了解這個現象有沒有據我了解像陳正吉次長事實上他在520那時候他當時就表達他要退休了啦那時候部長說請他看能不能因為在政權轉軌的過程當中可不可以多留一段時間啊那他同意那時候就講好到12月底啊那時候已經先講好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10076.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10076.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
連緊張咧連緊張的話因為他家庭還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10083.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10109.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
爸爸要照顧啊 這些情況每個人都有檯面上理由 這就不尋常嘛而且秘書長 你知道今年啊川普上任之後是一個經濟非常有可能大變動的一年 你知道嗎你知道這事嗎 結果我們所有有經驗的次長都離開陳正琦已經是我們台灣少數具有大型經貿談判實務經驗的次長而且他在上一次川普在任的時候他就有跟美國交手過 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10110.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10136.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這樣的人才你們留不住就說生涯規劃好吧生涯規劃你就走吧連錦章負責產業現在你們經濟部一直在推很多綠能的政策搞個天怒人怨你有沒有看到一個新聞中鋼的員工工會又出來抗議了說經濟部要求中鋼要投資一家叫台灣智能能源公司要做一個平台他們很害怕又要燒2500億有看到這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10138.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10153.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
知道這個事嗎?但是那個是有點誇張啦有沒有誇張是一回事啦那是因為當時您在做國發會主委的時候你國發基金有投資一個叫做新達海基嘛新達海基最後怎麼樣?共有64億收場啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10156.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10175.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以當然中鋼的員工會緊張嘛現在經濟部任何政策下來他們都怕說中鋼會不會虧損啊會影響到他們的分紅啊影響他們的股價啊那我現在講這個只是說我不是在跟你討論西部的經濟政策而是我們一個一個次長離開正值著我們經濟可能面臨到極大變動的一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10177.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10198.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
行政院有沒有掌握有沒有了解到底是部長的問題還是次長的生涯規劃那我看到部長每一次他因為從企業來的以前聽說他在當企業家的時候常常丟一個方向下面就去研究研究完之後又說這個方向好像好像不可以再換下一個方向然後他的員工可能就疲於奔命這但是他民營企業我們不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10198.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10226.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
現在如果做政務官 政務官如果也是這樣搞每天丟想法出來 叫下面去研究 叫下面去做然後做不出來 然後再換方向很多人當然這樣就受不了啊你有沒有去了解是不是這個情況上一次告訴大家說 我們要去菲林買電你知道這個事嗎 知道嗎然後在立法院大家質詢他他說 欸 這只是一個想法而已你知道這個事嗎所以政務官今天可以隨便亂拋想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10227.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10248.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
他是部長欸 部長拋了一個想法 次長就要去研究了啊就研究完之後 發現這個不可行那次長會不會做很多攏事 會不會走錯方向 然後沒有價值感 沒有成就感 沒有功效感覺得好像部長隨便丟一句話 我們就要研究 但最後又不做不如歸去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10250.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10275.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
回家養鳥 種花 下棋 都比在這邊浪費時間好嘛這個也算是職場霸凌的一種啦所以民主黨您願不願意去了解一下因為我今天在跟你講這個事情不是政治鬥爭我跟你講這是有關於台灣的經濟發展啊因為尤其是我剛剛講了 今年的經濟變動可能會很大可不可以去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10276.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10302.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好 但是據初步的了解還是個人的這個職涯規劃啦當然是職涯規劃 他會跟你講說我是被霸凌嗎或我覺得部長我待不下去嗎你勞動部上次第一次去調查那個北區分署的時候也都說利益良善也都說那個霸凌跟那個員工的輕生沒有直接關係啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10303.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10328.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
看你用什麼力道去了解嘛你的力道如果只是說 請他來問兩句話當然他都會這樣規劃可是如果你認真的去了解問次長之外 問次長秘書然後甚至去了解整個經濟部的氛圍有沒有我剛剛講那個狀況嘛否則我真的很難理解你之前你也沒有發生過嘛你當政務官的時候 次長連續走三個有沒有沒有嘛 有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10332.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10338.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
搖頭直接講沒有了 我們要收音啦沒有嘛 沒有嘛 所以你覺得怪不怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10340.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10368.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
為什麼大家都剛好在今年整個規劃剛剛已經有講包括陳正吉次長他事實上在520的時候就已經有這樣的表達然後大家談說那多留一陣子所以這個已經在不是最近才發生的而是在上任之前就是在上任之前就已經我覺得當然這個表面的理由都有可是我們想要了解我們想要您去了解的是說怎麼樣把這些人才把它留下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10370.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10391.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好不好把這些人才留下來然後部長到底有沒有對一下溝通的問題這個你要去了解嘛你要真的去了解好不好可以嗎不要每次來都在那邊都在講什麼鬥爭的事情把台灣搞得好像都是只有政治口水真正該做都不做我覺得這不是國人的期待啦謝謝好接下來請吳啟明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10410.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10412.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好 稍微一位同仁 請我們秘書長請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10419.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10443.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
董事長好 董事長早上大家都關心的不管是財劃法也好還是霸凌事件也好其實財劃法這個問題很多我們民意代表在地方不管地方中央大家都有共同的聲音因為有點太過草率造成很多的因素那是不是也請行政院這邊怎樣來妥善 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10447.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10473.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
把那個資源分配比較均勻讓這個聲音能夠減少這是我們未來我們行政院所要做的那第二關於霸凌的事件其實我們也看到我們中央在12月份也推出了霸凌通報系統這是未來關於地方包含所有公務人員大家都要共同制定一套透明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10476.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10505.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
的規定讓這個霸凌事件能夠減少那第三點本席所關心的就是那個重機械重機械的停放空間的問題那我也知道當初秘書長你在擔任行政院政務次長的時候在112年9月你也召開一個會議就是特殊機械 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10506.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10528.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
的停放空間名義長你記得吧記得那112年你現在已經又過了又兩年多了那這個案子還是停擺在那裡那未來呢我本市會關心會召開了很多會議尤其我也找出了一個問題就是在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10533.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10549.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我們的交通部交通用地的項目就是第六條第三項的規定就是有一個其他交通設施這一點我們就是朝這方向來做突破但是畢竟還牽涉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10551.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10569.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
由我們交通部以及農業部還有內政部那是不是再請我們的行政院我們的秘書長再來召開有哪個單位來認定不然你齁種機械你台灣那麼多種機械好我再打個比喻我們這次花蓮的地震 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10570.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10586.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
花蓮的地震在電視媒體都有看到都是種機械慶祝那你國家發生了重大事故的時候你都要找這些種機械那種機械他們的問題停放的空間的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10587.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10609.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
永遠我們中央政府都沒有替他們去做解決那地方政府勒老是來做不符合項目使用或是來白白一直來開罰單那這樣也造成業者一種非常大的困擾那是不是我們行政院要有擔當來扛起這個責任請我們民事長來回應好不好抱歉因為上一次我協調的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10616.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10634.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我以為已經解決了那我後續再來召開會看看怎麼樣再做處理再跟委員報告這一點我都先感謝你不然真的他們變成一個政府沒辦法說好做一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10637.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10655.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你看那麼多的重機械包含潛墩機啊 挖土機啊還有一些高空的釣機啊那你萬一發生了事故你所有的重大的工程都是要依賴他們那我們還是要把它規範規範好那未來我們才會朝向說讓他們來做輔導也好讓他們有一個依據有一個前者單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10664.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10683.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
他們在地方也才可以來做先辦事業的申請那這樣才能符合我們中央來協助他們不然是全國性啦不是我們單一事件啦是 是好不好好 那我就先謝謝你囉好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10703.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10716.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
好 接下來請林德福委員謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請那個龔秘書長好 請龔秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10724.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10741.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
民主黨你好,民主黨我請教,因為行政院發言人俗稱行政院的化妝師以深入淺出的方式來介紹政府的政策和全民做好溝通的工作我講到這邊我想民主黨你應該知道我要問什麼了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10743.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10767.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
因為立法院三讀通過的裁判法結果行政院發言人李慧芝卻在記者會上揚言114年度總預算可能因此要重編但是行政院副秘書長李國新以及主計長陳淑芝在財政部跟財政部莊卓銀莊部長30日在立法院裁委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10768.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10795.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
接受執行的時候表示從來沒有說過總預算要從編那我要請問國民署長行政院是最大假信息的發布中心嗎你認同嗎不是喔那李慧芝手中的發言稿是誰寫的是誰給她的誰審核的為什麼要用這種方式來誤導社會大眾造成整個社會衝突的對立 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10796.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10814.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
衝突跟對立你有什麼看法報告委員我想當初這個發言人他有對外說明嘛因為那時候他的用意是說長期以來可能他代表行政院耶花園人是代表行政院耶藝術長難道你們都沒有責任嗎隨便可以講 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10816.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10839.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
然後事後結果又讓人家打臉我請教這是第一點第二點這個高鐵南沿案爭議多年了直到2019年拍板左營荒案如今卻突然發現左營荒案有問題一切都從頭來過那行政院佐隆泰上週六12月28號宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10841.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10870.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
高鐵南沿屏東岸這個屏東踩高雄岸而且延伸進入高雄市區並在高雄車站偵測高雄站花了五年上億的綜合規劃可行性評估跟環境評估環評全部都打水漂也可以說是賴清德總統推翻了蔡英文前總統的決策而且你那時候還是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10872.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10896.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
國發會當主委那高雄市交通局這個112年新聞稿表示如果高鐵需要重新進入高雄車站需將以完成鐵路地下化的荔岩道重新開挖施作高鐵隧道初估需要花14年的規劃及施工而且車站 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10898.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10922.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
商圈西拆除65棟的大樓另外鳳山車站這個自高雄高屏西西拆遷200多200餘棟施工並將嚴重衝擊市區發展故重新進入高雄車站這個案已不可行那公民署長您在蘇貞昌院內你是擔任國發會的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10923.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10940.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
把關國家重大建設的發展那當初外界質疑行政院先設建再劃把那對此你有什麼看待高鐵南沿岸的轉變是否要追究相關人員的失職問題那個你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10941.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10967.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
據我了解它主要是有兩個原因第一個原因因為當時選擇左營愛以後那當然你顧問公司建設公司營造公司你要有一個細部規劃那時候我們外部的顧問是日本廠商因為高鐵跟他們有關那他們提供的建議說你這樣可能會倒退路然後產生一個你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10968.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10990.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
站的部分可能會自愛難行然後班次也會變得很少就沒有辦法達成當初的效應那是第一點第二點當初剛剛那個高雄案的部分大家關心的是會不會過度的拆遷然後會立言道的部分那現在交通部門他是說他們會經過市區的部分都會採遣頓法 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10991.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11009.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
然後捲路法當然經費會高一點那不過就不會產生這個比較老民的效果就是民挖的部分就會比較不是市區的部分但是我看到報紙寫就是這條高鐵要延伸到屏東實際上跟鐵路只差13分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11012.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11031.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
而且是平行的喔那你認為因為這是民脂民膏全民所繳的稅金我認為不是為了照而照確實有那個需要沒有話講但是你要是平行只差13分鐘你認為有必要嗎有那麼急嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11033.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11059.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
對不對那個因為你當初做國發會的主委現在擔任行政院的秘書長我認為一個政策的推動不能換了個位置就換了個腦袋那個秘書長好好的去思考好好的探討本席最後一個問題因為本席看到食品安全辦公室許主任今天有來吧有沒有出席好來請上 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11061.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11085.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
過去日本進口草莓因為榮耀殘留問題多次遭到我國邊境茶葉來攔截因此在2024年1月由日本台灣交流協會提出申請宦官榮耀殘留的標準那2024年11月食藥署發布榮耀殘留容許量的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11086.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11095.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
新增修135項榮作物榮耀殘留量的標準包括日本草莓常用的榮耀的殘留容許量結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11098.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11122.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個前天啊媒體又報導又有日本進口水果驗出農藥超標超標喔包括金柑啦草莓啦和奇異果政府才放寬農藥這個標準沒有多久日本水果又被驗出農藥不合格這個水果有農藥這個不合格本是提醒這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11124.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11138.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
食安辦公室這次12年過年比較早那政府要加強食安食品安全的稽查讓民眾採買年貨水果吃得安心過得好年那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11139.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11167.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
民主黨你跟食安辦公室的主任徐主任你們是不是應該好好的來探討這個事不是齁去應和人家啦人家講怎麼樣我們齁沒有把關那個對老百姓健康是有影響的因為你看日本的核食然後日本喔他有一些農藥灑在那個他們的水果上面超飄喔啊你們也沒有嚴格把關欸這個跟健康都有直接關係捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11168.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11192.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
沒有啦 只要是超標的話就是退貨銷毀啦退貨銷毀 但是你們又把它拉高本來不可以的現在就是都是很安全的我們當然就是歡迎我是希望說這是很重要很嚴重食安辦公室你們好好的去把關 好不好謝謝謝謝國務院署長接下來我們請徐欣盈召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11203.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11205.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席請龔秘書長龔秘書長 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11215.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11232.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
趙偉謝謝秘書長好首先本席想要針對去年其實就是上個月12月18號我們內政委員會審查行政院總預算的時候行政官員沒有經過主席同意擅自離場當然剛剛您在前面的答詢有特別講你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11235.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11242.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
會議通知到兩點那在兩點的時候這個螢幕還是在進行這個還是呈現會議上會開始那 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11247.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11274.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
請問1點48分的時候您還在現場嗎我在現場對 所以您應該知道嘛本席有回到會場嘛然後宣布開會然後接著宣布延長會議但是當時確實啊民進黨的委員這個很多的聲音這樣讓議事人員呢他們做事完全依法所以他們在這個我們本席宣告之後然後離開就宣告延長會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11275.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11299.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那他們要確認他這個錄音有沒有錄到所以他們在兩點多才確認所以在過去從來沒有一位行政官員沒有經過主席同意不管是院級還是部會等級的這個沒有經過立法院這個會議的主席同意就擅自離場過去從來沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11301.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11319.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那即便是您剛剛有講您的這個幕僚來Call您回來包括所有列席的各個單位的這個列席人員他們多少依據過去他們多少也會問一下議事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11320.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11344.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
其實我們的主任秘書我們台上的主任秘書他那一天他知道這個會議其實還沒有結束所以下午4點多本席再回來的時候主任秘書都在現場那當然後來本席也致電給您您也來到了現場來到現場突然又離開這什麼原因您都回到現場報告主席就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11349.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11378.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我回來的時候那時候因為我剛才提到就是說原來我離開的時候有會議上會開始這個部分那但是後來你回來的時候那時候的螢幕已經改了改成會議開始休息我就覺得這個是有不一樣的事情嘛有不一樣的事情所以我就再回來看看現在會議到底是什麼狀況我回來的時候發現主席又不在了 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11379.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11403.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那主席都不在了嗎不是主席不在是因為主席在等你所以我說休息然後那一天那一天等於我休息那他們跟我說您回來因為我不知道你什麼時候會回到所以你回來之後我就接著我就接著從這個辦公室趕回來了那我一回來你又走了主席不在但是會議是休息情況所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11408.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11417.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這個當然本席可以理解啦這個您啊我覺得您也是身不由己啦這一定是這個政黨政治的過程這個對您 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11420.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11448.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
要求說你可以離開包含貴黨的委員沒有一個在所以你們索性都離開甚至現場本來還有一些行政列席人員在那他們也受到你們蠻大的壓力他們就全部走了我們也沒有刁難他們但是本席想請教您不就您的這個案例我們就講這個立法院的會議行政官員可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11449.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11471.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
未經主席同意擅自離開您覺得這樣合乎憲政體制嗎?合乎立法院的運作嗎?合乎基本禮節嗎?如果正在會議進行當中的話不應該但是我剛才提到就是我判斷上這個會議到底現在的狀態說老實話不是那麼清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11472.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11496.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
不是那麼清楚那你可以尊重主席嘛對不對那你不能等嗎我都等你等好久了好不好所以本席只能說民進黨習慣違憲違法立法院就算譴責民進黨的官員也是不痛不癢但是剩下的時間我想行政院還是有很多事情本席要質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11498.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11519.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
要來跟您來做一個討論首先第一個有關我們這個消費者消費者保護本席請教您您知道最近我們又聽說這個薑黃粉胡椒發現了蘇丹紅本席請教秘書長您知道薑黃粉或胡椒一罐大概多少錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11521.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11539.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個我沒有很了解大概嘛對幾百塊嘛對兩百到五百五百看大罐小罐對不對是對好那本席再請教您你有沒有聽說有新聞說民眾在飯店或旅館甚至賓館被偷拍的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11541.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11561.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
就是被業者他裝 你知道嘛媒體有一些暴露所以像這些民眾的消費的權益或是他們的健康這個像這個胡椒薑黃粉裡面參有蘇丹紅他們這一些情況他們要怎麼辦他不可能為幾百塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11563.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11590.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
來申訴嘛那我們行政院是不是可以對於像這種個別的可是他是集體性的包含您說這個飯店他裝了偷拍器他不會只拍到一個人吧他那個長時間的對不對受害的人一定很多嘛那上網這個偷把這個影片偷賣出去他賺了幾百萬就是這個不肖業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11591.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11619.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
像這種我們竟然有消保處我們應該要考慮因為民眾不可能負擔這些訴訟費用所以行政院針對這一塊已經民間大家其實怨聲載道所以是不是團體訴訟的經費因為經費不足參與人數不夠所以困難重重那政府能不能提供足夠的經費協助消保團體提起訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11620.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11646.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
可以嗎包委員我剛剛問的就是說食安的部分是有我們有一個基金所以那個食安法上面對那個食安法裡面就有規定所以這個部分的集體訴訟是沒有問題那其他的部分就是我們怎麼樣請那個主政機關相關的主政機關他們來協助或是地方政府那如果主政機關不撥預算或撥的預算不夠行政院會協助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11649.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11668.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以我們真的希望行政院一定要負起協助提起團體訴訟保障民眾的消費權益再來本席要就我們行政院常常會研擬一些法律的草案對不對還有行政命令對不對行政法規命令 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11668.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11697.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那這個為了讓各界能夠充分事先了解而且充分的時間表達意見所以都要提前公告這點祕書長您知道嗎要預告對就是預告嘛那現在很多的法律案都沒有預告然後你們都自己就在那邊做也不讓大家可以連我們立委都不知道這一塊可不可以改進當然可以改進但是我跟委員說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11698.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11717.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
如果是行政命令行政法規的部分沒有我法律案我特別針對法律案因為你們行政命令行政法規有規定要60天那個一定要60天因為人民沒有如果沒有你馬上公佈沒有反應期但是因為法律案通常會有冗長的比較討論的過程這個討論過程就可以表達意見等等一些情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11722.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11745.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
所以你們不用預告嗎還是要預告嗎對 理論上 原則上還是要預告但是只是說所以執行上都常常沒有預告這樣不好啦好不好可不可以改進可不可以改進啊我們會以這個作為最大的原則啦對啦 應該要嘛好不好對對對 還是要有這個原則那最後就是行政院其實更重要的職責是在於跨部會的整合您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11746.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11761.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
是的對所有事情包括剛剛今天蘇巧慧委員她也說事業廢水要您針對內政部跟經濟部要做協調嘛是那我們在打詐的部分那更是跨了四五個單位對對對所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11763.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11783.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
這個現在我們台灣的打詐越打越詐 四肢不協調的這個問題所以我們針對行政院的跨部會整合我請秘書長您回去傳達院長也好還有在整個行政院我們在統領各部會的時候一定要加強這個跨部會整合可以嗎是 所以我們打詐辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11785.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11794.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
指揮官在這裡我知道不只打詐嘛你既然講到這兒本席請教你你有在路上走路的時候你有看過有那個小綠人的號誌嗎有沒有小綠人對對對他剩下兩秒你會不會過不會剩兩秒為什麼不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11804.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11826.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
剩兩秒因為你過不了不一定啊為什麼剩兩秒過不了我們立法院這邊有小綠人剩兩秒過得了所以好 這個秘書長說剩兩秒就不過但一般民眾會這樣嗎很多人對很多的交通法規不是那麼了解嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11826.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11854.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
所以現在這個我們在交通部我們有關行人道路安全或者是這個罰則的部分有交通部還有我們內政部國土署那造成民怨非常大每年我們的這個道路交通有很多的灰色地帶然後像本席舉例的這種或者是您知道現在有一種叫做行人優先區您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11855.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11869.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
對啊就是車子不能進去嘛車子可以進可以進去車子可以進的行人優先區那他說在行人優先區只要車子跟人碰撞車子要負完全的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11870.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11884.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那因為他車子可以進嘛那車子如果進去那今天如果有人真正刻意去衝擊去撞擊任何的機車腳踏車或者是汽車那所有的責任都還是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11886.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11909.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
交通工具的這個所有人他要承擔所以有很多不合理民眾一直的來跟我相信每個委員都常常有跟這個各部會在反映所以我們希望行政院對於有些要跨部會整合的然後民眾特別期待的像我們每年像去年前年了112年已經前年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11912.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11929.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
74億的罰還561萬件的交通罰單那很多是灰色地帶所以我們是不是行政院可以責成相關的部會來檢討不要老是讓政府的失職然後呢讓人民受罰這一塊可不可以改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11931.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11959.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們 道安會報都會有定期在開啦對啊 都是跨部會整合啦那有些問題一直存在著民眾也跟我們反映到疲累了但是時時都有這種反應昨天本席還馬上看到一個民眾親自用訊息來反映隨時我們都接受到所以這一塊我們是不是可以請行政院相關單位在道安會報 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11960.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11984.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
也好,那時候所有單位都在嘛好好的做個檢討,可以嗎?可以,可以好,謝謝,謝謝秘書謝謝,那國民黨本時要提醒一下剛剛徐欣盈、昭偉在問您說您剛剛說您不曉得那當天已經開始開會可是徐欣盈、昭偉事實上是有致電給您那您也同意要回來開會的當天那個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11987.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11999.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
不是不是不是是您離開之後徐姓昭偉事實上是有打電話給你你也答應要回來喔是謝謝接下來我們請鄭天才委員好請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12023.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12045.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我們現在是繼續審查114年度行政院的預算案沒有錯吧所以這個秘書長因為你當政務官很久了很多年而這個行政院發言人他是記者出身的嘛沒有錯吧所以你要多指導他就預算法46條規定的很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12054.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12078.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
明年的預算就是115年的預算114年的預算必須在113年8月底以前送到立法院這個是預算法是16條4個月前就要送所以在解釋上當然法律修正的當然是用到後年的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12080.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12095.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
因為已經送來已經審查了嘛何況立法院三讀通過的時間是12月20號113年12月20號按照一般的行政流程總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12098.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12118.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
依法公布的話也是114年了嘛所以在解釋上都是不可能從編預算所以這個要指導他啦好不好好我們接下來這很重要的一個憲法判決111年10月28號憲判字第17號這裡面特別明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12126.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12153.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
對於平埔族群的身份這個要在先知日期三年內要這個公布施行不然的話就違法違憲所以這個必須在114年10月27號以前必須要公布平埔族群身份法這是憲判17號的一個正式的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12155.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12182.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個請問一下秘書長什麼時候可以把這個草案送到立法院那個陳時中政委他是有在這個討論這件事情有一個專案小組正在做這樣的事情他有是有在我們政務會裡面有做過一次還兩次的報告那後續如果有比較明確的方向的話我想我們就會盡快提出來秘書長這個時間你要 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12185.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12212.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
請秘書長去協調陳時中政務委員有這個時間的急迫性他知道他知道不是不是不是知道他還要知道我知道但是還是要提醒啊第一個啊第一個顏明慧送來的到行政院11月就送去了顏明慧送到行政院的草案11月就送去了是經過很多場的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12214.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12242.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
說明會已經聽起了平埔族群還有原住民族群的意見之後提了草案所以要盡可能要絕大部分應該要尊重尊重延民會所提的草案為什麼呢因為他是聽起了各界的意見尤其是平埔族群的意見好不好因為必須要在我的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12244.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12273.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
務必要在一月底以前這個月底以前為什麼呢我們看這個時程二月立法院開會對不對開始正式會審這個法案二月下旬甚至三月初然後還要開很多的次很多的說不定還要開公聽會之類的所以必須要在今年的五月三十一號以前的定期會要完成才有辦法不然的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12274.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12297.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
過了這個定期會就來不及了所以這個是一個一定要提醒最好是一月底以前就是下個會期一定要通過了對對對沒有錯好接下來這個研究法推動會這個院長親自主持在113年12月19號召開了研究法推動會 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12299.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12321.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
仍然沒有依延期法來審議協調未完成的法案秘書長你要跟延民會講所送來的不是報告案這個跟那個毫無關係了要完成的按照延期法審議協調延期法相關事務啊最重要的是什麼呢比如說延期法第四條啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12328.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12357.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
原住民組織法還沒有完成啊應該要討論這個啊尤其是行政院院長第一次卓榮泰院長第一次召開這個基本法推動會他應該要了解結果沒有列這個討論案啊原紀法二十條也是一樣啊土海法啊蔡總統說這個要我們會很快的將原住民組織法土海法送到立法院審議啊八年多啦沒有啊沒有送來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12359.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12386.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們卓榮泰院長也說政府也將落實原住民族基本法背立原住民族自治的推動所以卓院長第一次主持的原住民法推動會議當然應該是要討論這個才對你看原住民族土地法治這是卓院長在書面報告寫得很清楚的所以這個部分要請秘書長要跟延民會講 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12387.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12415.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
好不好以後不要隨便弄一個報告案了謝謝秘書長本席開會期間常常會休息休息的時候本席都不在那就看今天審議算本席不在你是不是要跑回立法院跑回行政院好那接下來就請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在請羅志強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12426.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12428.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
有請秘書長請秘書長羅委員好在我質詢之前我對秘書長剛剛一句談話非常不滿意主席休息你回來看到主席不在你用這個藉口說你可以不出席那立法院其他委員會休息的時候是不是時候首長就可以不出席了是不是這個意思嗎請問秘書長不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12453.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12476.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那不是你剛剛講什麼話我剛剛提到的就是說你今天憑什麼不出席主席在主持會議會議沒結束那主席都打電話給你了結果你跟我講說因為主席不在現場主席休息的時間是主席決定是主席的權限我現在開始正式問我的問題我先第一個對你表達一個抗議第二個我想要請教秘書長什麼叫更大的民主我不知道不知道啊賴清德的金句都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12484.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12498.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我告訴你啦更大的民主就是賴清德啦沒關係你不知道喔來考考你憲政常識啦來看民主的大小到底怎麼分請問民進黨破窗攻佔國會癱瘓立法這個是大民主還是小民主答不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12502.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12521.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
大民主這是更大的民主因為是民進黨做的就是大民主來考你第二個齁那請問齁民進黨當家鬧事號召青鳥包圍立法院還有民進黨立委要青鳥衝進來然後鍾佳冰還剪破那個鋸馬鐵籠請問是大民主還是小民主我告訴你啦 我知道你也答不出來啦大民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12526.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12533.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
因為是民進黨做的就是大民主柯建民說要罷免韓國瑜請問秘書長是大民主還是小民主你一樣答不出來嗎這憲政常識啊請問韓國瑜怎麼罷免我不太清楚秘書長就教一下這憲政常識啊這個總召講我覺得應該問我問你憲政常識不要管柯建民嘛你看你也要言必稱總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12557.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12570.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
不分區怎麼罷免啊我所以叫他選國民黨黨主席罷免韓國瑜比較快啊我講什麼道理為什麼他開除韓國瑜的國民黨黨籍不分區資格消除他就是不是院長了所以柯建民連憲法的概念都沒有但是我跟你講一樣還是大民主因為是柯建民講的柯建民說要叫大法官把國民黨解散掉來請問我們偉大的行政院秘書長你支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12585.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12610.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
是不是解散國民黨不可能嘛不可能嘛謝謝你啊打臉了柯建民啊這個我肯定你但是我跟你講你還是錯的因為柯建民說要解散國民黨仍然是最大的民主更大的民主因為是民進黨說的算我再問你啊大法官違背八成反對廢除死刑的民意做出實質廢死的判決是大民主還是小民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12612.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12633.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
你也答不出來不過大法官決議是合憲的合憲啦 可我跟你講過了沒關係 我已經跟很多人賭過了加你一個 加你一個什麼叫實質廢止 我講實質廢止我的實質廢止定義很簡單賴清德5月19號 2028年5月19號卸任的那一天不會有任何死刑犯被執行 你敢跟我賭嗎會不會有死刑犯被執行 我告訴你 一個都不會一個都不會有 這就是實質廢止 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12641.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12658.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
要不然來賭一下你覺得在金澤總統卸任前有沒有可能?我敢啊所以我告訴你不要再為大法官辯解就是實質廢死來我再問一下這個你總要回答得出來這是基本民主常識題以習越戒嚴是大民主還是小民主? |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12662.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12690.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那後來已經被 這個決議已經被推翻了嘛所以你也反對嘛 對不對他不是大民主也不是小民主他有權力提但是後來被國會推翻了那他是什麼民主啊 也是民主啊他叫不民主啦 那麼難回答啊但是即便尹錫悅是不民主民進黨立法院黨團仍然發文力挺啊所以呢 一樣不民主的尹錫悅又變成大民主了那我最後再問你一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12692.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12701.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
立法院按照多數決 按照我們所選出來的民意三讀通過的法律 請問是大民主還是小民主啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12703.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12729.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
因為通過法案當然行政院是要依法行政非常好但是我們還是有一些舊事上的我沒有問你後面大家究竟什麼我還跟你說請問是大民主還是小民主這個是依法行政是不是民主嗎是民主啊謝謝你啊我告訴你又錯了是小民主甚至是不民主因為民進黨只要不高興都是小民主我接下來就要問我們的秘書長啊來來來到底什麼叫大民主啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12730.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12753.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
今天行政院針對立法院按照民主多數決通過的三法你們要提出複議嘛對不對今天就限訴法提複議啊你提複議是大民主還是小民主我們依法可以提出來的依法可以提出來那是大還是小這個沒有所謂的大小非常好你又打臉賴清德什麼叫更大的民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12755.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12773.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
當總統的不如我們行政院秘書長大什麼小啊民主的程序就是民主的程序行政院有權赴議是民主程序的一個環立法院三讀通過法律是立法院多數民主的一個環賴清德是皇帝啊行政院赴議是比立法院更大的民主嗎 是嗎是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12777.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12785.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
是不是嘛你比較大嘛是嗎沒有沒有這樣謝謝你嘛你剛剛都回答了沒有大小之分啦什麼更大的民主那我接下來想請教啊我直接跟你講啦你們當然也知道啦行政院復議喔因為立法院多數通過法律你進來復議我們也不會讓你復議成功啦那接下來幹嘛釋憲了是不是釋憲是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12806.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12828.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
沒有啦 那個還是要經過立法院的程序啊沒關係啦沒關係 我就跟你講就像我剛剛跟你講5月2028年5月19號之前不會有一個一個死刑執行啦我直接跟你斷言嘛那剛剛你也可以證明我錯嘛可以證明我錯嘛時間嘛 十天就證明了嘛十天內就證明了 我就問你喔接下來如果被否決 請問現在要怎麼做 釋憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12830.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12847.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
希望跟立法院來做溝通好啦好啦你努力你辛苦你努力溝通啦你用更大的民主來跟我們立法院小民主溝通啦立法院很小啦不用擔心直接踩過去碾壓他用更大的民主碾壓就好了有什麼好溝通的賴總統都不溝通的欸賴總統現在溝通過沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12850.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12873.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那種說突然今天元旦才突然醒悟說要找韓國瑜來溝通他也沒搞懂欸韓國瑜是立法院院長議事總理其實找他溝通也不是正確的事情要找在野黨主席溝通一個叫做朱立倫一個叫代理黨主席黃國昌啊建議一下啦要展現溝通也不是這樣展現方式啊那我接下來問你嘛要不要示現嘛答不出來啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12880.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12898.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我這邊就直接說一件事情今天我們的民主走到這個地步立法院的立法委員不是我們個人的意志我們是人民選出來是人民賦予我們的民意我們通過的法律在賴清德口中叫做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12900.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12911.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
叫做低贱的民族吗你是高贵的民族你是更高大上的民族吗是这样意思吗你不如我们狗明星秘书长啊他直接跟你讲哪有大小之分啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12912.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12936.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
都是按照憲法底下的民主程序我也不認為行政院附議就比較小哦沒有這回事哦都是憲政程序啊什麼叫更大的民主那我直接問啊請問更大的民主賴清德是在號召民進黨大罷免嗎是宣誓要大罷免嗎還是今天更大的民主賴清德是說要開始展開所謂的全民公投嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12937.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12956.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
不管是哪一個程序 仍然是民主程序的一環 也沒有所謂大小之分那我最後要講一件事情 戴金德如果真的要講更大的民主 如果是一時式罷免 大罷免就是真的完全呼應了柯建民一路的主張 民進黨一路的主張就不要再裝了 不要再搞什麼偽公民團體 請客吃飯直接民進黨掛黨部的名字出來發動大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12962.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12979.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
至少你今天有氣魄單刀直入清清楚楚明明白白第二個我跟民主黨幫我轉達一下卓榮泰院長請卓榮泰再轉達一下賴清德總統如果他講的是公投很好請他宣布民進黨不要再黨公投並大選了民進黨自己閹割了公投他現在跟我講公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12986.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13007.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
先回去懺悔十天行政院復議期十天回去懺悔十天再來跟我講公投我告訴你不管罷免公投或者是今天立法院通過的法律乃至於行政院復議大法官釋憲都叫做民主的一環更大的民主不是皇帝不是愛心德 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請張祺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13033.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13035.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
秘書長請秘書長陳委員長你行政院今天肯定限訴法要提復議你判斷立法院過得了嗎你的復議案過得了立法院嗎一量溝通你的判斷呢這個案子是台灣民眾黨提國民黨支持的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13057.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13070.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
對不對 加兩個無黨籍啊54加8票 62票我們會說明可能自愛難行的部分我們會溝通 盡量溝通看起來用常理 不用腦袋 用卡打呼吸也不會過對不對為什麼要提 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13073.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13100.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
沒有努力啊,一定要努力才有可能機會啊要努力應該不是,要努力應該不是提複議吧趕快提出大家接受的大法官人選啊你提專業的啊,提獨立的啊,人民會鼓掌的啊你賴清德提了人,如果是好的在野黨民眾黨跟國民黨敢擋嗎?你就是提了上次你們連民進黨自己都去封殺啊劉建銀那個大炮事件顯示什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13102.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13111.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那現在賴清德跟民進黨提的不就是要來當民進黨打手的嗎劉建宇只是因為批評了民進黨寫幾篇文章講幾句話賴清德總統把他丟包耶他民進黨黨團51個人 繼黨繼來全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13117.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13142.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
你現在到底要怎麼樣的道法官你現在提副議案是怎麼樣繼續把道法官抓在你手上變禁卵這是人民要的嗎你現在不是提副議吧你現在要的應該是符合人民的需求你帶清德總統你提出好的人我們鼓鼓掌就剩下七個人你可以開會啊沒有衝突啊道法官名單還會繼續提啊你提副議案過不了人民也不同意啊你的解決方案是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13143.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13159.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
就提出大家會鼓掌的人啊不然就改改問題啊,你就可以開會啊是不是這樣?沒有,副議還是我們盡量溝通嘛盡量溝通,好不好不過還轉達一下啦,趕快提出政協是提出合適的人啦好來,今天來霸凌的這個專案啊秘書長現在兩平靜音也有出現嘛,包括你的消保處我先問你一下十一過二十啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13171.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13184.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
一定有總委員長,他有說喔他說已經揭露或者被檢討的,那時候11月20號,他有說一個禮拜內,全部調查完畢,追究責任對不對,你會去嗎?如果有新的案子,請各個機關職場,全面啟動防制霸凌的作業加強保護,要趕快辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13197.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13218.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
你們這個速度 你現在看起來 左院長是急驚風喔 速度很快喔 可是是不是跳票了當左院長在帶頭衝的時候 直接把他處理他那時候是就是大家比較關注的幾個案件啦 那個大家比較關心嘛大家比較關注的現在調查完了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13219.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13241.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
除了勞動部的北分署那個案子其他調查完嘛這是第一個問題第二個有些新的案子你們進度現在變成是牛步化囉是不是人總本來就有一個規範就是一個月你現在像我剛才說的你行政院裡面發生問題你說要多久一個月是不是為什麼你們的院長這麼急驚風結果你們這邊這麼牛步化 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13246.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13268.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這不跳票嗎?你至少進度跟上去啊,一天白兩天白,你想怎樣都頂一下一個月調查小組很多是要外部委員來協助那這個外部委員我們還要配合他們那這樣協政院長當初就不要做這個保證啊他當初是講說,大家比較矚目的幾個案子,我們是不是先來處理到目前為止,除了勞動部的案子,其他沒看到有該我複寫啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13269.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13298.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
是不是?據我了解還有衛福部的嘛衛福部齁?你聽起來好像兩個案子處理好而已還有教育部的還有幾個部會的都有加快速度,對人民有交代好不好?不要跳票來,我今天跟你討論一個很驚悚的數據我看了老蔣我都嚇了一大跳了你那個職場霸凌的專線成立齁我調資料的時候,它說一百個收到五十三案對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13300.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13328.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這不像這個專線這個平台收到幾個案收到幾個案子那個人總給我的這個數據他是經過整合因為有一些是有多個人報一案匯整起來目前立案的是一百二十幾個吧有具名的是一百二十幾個剛剛成立沒有多久已經有一百一百多少案子進來現在啊現在就是有具名的是一百二十六案一一二六 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13330.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13352.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
你會覺得這個數目字很嚇人更嚇人 我給你看更嚇人的數目字大家看這個數字這個是本席辦公室去人事總署調到的資料這是很驚悚的一個數據最近這五年工部門職場霸凌的件數跟人數每一年都跳一倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13354.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13376.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
最恐怖的 你看一百九九年的時候 民國一百九九年78件到了110年 隔年跳到143 整個要一倍到111 跳到228不是沒有減少喔 每一年都增加一倍到了去年515 又跳一倍今年還沒完呢 統計我貼在紙上了 到十幾分必須扭 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13384.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13400.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
地雷數據太嚇人了我們公務人員怎麼這麼可憐我們的公務員很優秀啊就霸凌人數這麼多 第二個更嚇人了每一年 五年來每一年都跳一倍不只沒有減少嚴不嚴重那為什麼沒辦法處理 到底出什麼事所以現在我們為什麼要有那麼多的機制希望把這個事情做一個處理畢竟我再給你看一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13414.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13434.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我調的資料,有中央政府,有地方機關,有各級學校各級學校人是最多的嘛,對不對?那地方政府跟中央差不多你知道哪一個這三個單位,中央政府是最嚴重的霸凌的事件是最多的,嚴重到什麼程度?申請的件數是5年,569件 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13441.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13455.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
成立的就有92件我統計就是每一位在中央政府包括今天列起的很多官員在中央政府中央政府上班的一萬人裡面就有29個人來申訴說他被霸凌了至少有接近5個人是成立的我們的政府怎麼對得起我們的公務員呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13465.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13474.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我們之前看到了我們很悲傷勞動部那麼年輕那麼努力一個年輕人生命消失了結果我們現在把這個掀開來看整個政府這樣怎麼對得起我們的公務員呢我們在法令上在職場上或者他申訴的時候我們提供什麼保護嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13487.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13501.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
在考試院的這個保訓會的有關於公務人員保障法我們會跟他來進行比較更實質上看怎麼樣修法讓他對公務員的保障可以更好所以必須對 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13502.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13514.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
今天我拿出來應該是全台灣第一次有人拿出這樣的數據 對不對第一遍我們終於具體化 知道每一年都在倍數的成長我也很具體跟你講 每一萬人 29位員工 公務員申訴說他被霸凌了 這麼多位都是成立的 這很嚴重 我們一定要徹底的去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13526.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13545.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我更跟他講為什麼要急我跟他講速度不能慢你不要讓這個行政院長走動態左院長跳票很多案子你說又有一百多個申訴嘛對不對我笑的這個禮拜我又拿到一個案子我聽了這個霸凌這個狀況老實講我心裡是非常難過的這是中友一個他說我以一百一十二年開始啊廉政署外派到他們中友單位的政風處一個長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13556.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13568.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
辱罵他一個女孩子罵人家說用下賤的賤去罵他還威脅他說不會讓你升等你考記一定是平等那他往上申訴啊政風處長還一直偏袒當然我們不會只有聽一面 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13573.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13595.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
所以明天我會召開協調會我也請他去你們這個拜領專線去申訴好不好這個案子很嚴重這個不是只有罵人家弄到後來員工都要去看身心科了都有自殺的傾向我們不要再遺憾的事情發生好不好他是現在進行所以速度要快所以最後我具體要求我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13599.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13614.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
人事總署行政院這邊要有一個很明確的各個部會在最近這五年不是只有給我剛剛統計的數目字我要你比較明確的這些案件你後來處理的狀況是什麼樣子 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13615.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13630.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
要知道你的處理狀況是什麼樣子另外更重要,我們要趕快建立一個可以立即處理的不要再牛步化了不要每次都要拖一個月兩個月都不會付了你對被害者是要保護的 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13631.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13653.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
前幾天我們剛剛通過吹哨者保護法它是一個很重要的反貪腐嘛對不對其實也是一個反霸凌很重要的啊有人說打抱不平說我的同事或者我被霸凌了現在很好吹哨者保護法已經過了他們會保護你你的身份是不會被洩漏的如果違法的洩漏他秘密的最高可以抓去關關五年而且不能隨便給你調職 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13654.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13677.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
這個救濟的措施都是有的那更重要的是你剛剛講的科技營養人事總署我們的公務員保障法趕快好好修好不好趕快好好修現在很空洞我們現在整個公務員那個那個保障是太空洞了一定要對於我們的被害者保護一定要做好而且要給救濟的機制好不好好 這位農爹不要讓我們那麼優秀的公務員再受到霸凌了畢弟加油 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13686.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13690.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好 謝謝接下來請黃國昌總召謝謝主席是麻煩有請我們的行政院秘書長好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13706.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13728.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
黃總長你好立書長好12月18號我來內政委員會歷經了我人生以來第一次從來沒有發生過的質詢我面對空蕩蕩的備詢台半個人都沒有立書長不在法規會主任委員沈淑飛不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13729.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13752.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
綜合業務處處長不在全部行政院的官員都不在我第一個問題啊12月18號誰叫你們走的我早上已經有做一些說明就是沒有人叫我走所以你自己走的對我想請問一下主席啊那天你有同意他走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13753.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13770.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
沒有那這個是內政委員會的規矩嗎你沒有同意他走他就自己可以走現在行政院的官員來立法院是橫著走嗎主席沒有同意然後你要走就可以走這個是現在行政院的官員來立法院備詢的態度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13773.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13787.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
是嗎 請教民主長我要從頭說明開始如果說我當天來講我八點多就在這邊然後一直沒有開會就是那時候一直所以我才問你嘛是誰要你走的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13789.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13813.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
會議 會議尚未開始你直接回答黃國昌的問題就好黃國昌的問題就好 他問你你不是從早開始講嗎所以我才請教主席嘛他沒有同意你走嘛也沒有人叫你走嘛所以我下一個合邏輯的問題就是對現在的行政院來講在立法院來是自己想走就可以走沒有人要你走 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13814.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13842.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
主席也沒有准你走但是你自己決定要離開那我的問題就來了因為那時候會議的狀態不是那麼清楚所以呢不用請示主席嗎會議的狀態不是那麼清楚所以我愛走就可以走嗎但主席不在等一下等一下先停一下主席他現在怪到你人不在喔他有打電話跟你聯絡嗎沒有而且我跟黃總召也說明一下下午 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13843.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13863.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
秘書長我通知他他也回來了回來的時候會議是休息狀態接著馬上要開會了但是他就說休息狀態主席不在他就要走這個就是最大的問題那今天審訊算的時候我們中間休息難道秘書長也要走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13865.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13886.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
沒有今天的會議是持續進行所以沒有那樣我現在沒有在問今天的會議啊我一樣啊我請教你的是那一天沒有人要你走主席也沒有准你走然後你就離開了所以我才請教你嘛這個是現在行政院的官員來立法院備詢的時候的態度嗎是這樣嗎如果會議狀態持續的話我們就不會走什麼叫做會議狀態持續的話有人宣布上會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13893.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13915.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
因為當初我離開了兩點多離開的時候那時候是會議打上的是還沒有開始所以呢所以還沒有開始因為當初的表定是到兩點那場會議下午的時候你有沒有跟張偉聯絡下午的時候後來他那個螢幕上忽然改變了他說這會議已經開始而且現在是休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13916.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13943.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那這個跟我的認知跟我離開的時候是有漢格的因為我離開的時候那時候兩點多那時候是會議還沒開始那時候照理說會議如果還沒有開始那這個會議已經結了來我請教一下趙偉下午的時候您跟他聯絡的時候他是怎麼講的他說他馬上回來他也回來啦而且剛剛不是秘書長啊你回來以後是誰要你走的我說過了是我自己啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13944.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13973.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
昭偉請你回來 你也回來了然後你決定自己要走我這樣講好了啦我現在在給你解釋的機會那你剛剛的解釋我必須要老實的跟秘書長報告我無法接受我聽起來昭偉也沒有辦法接受那當然沒有關係啦現在在卓榮泰院長的領導之下行政院的官員大家官威都很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13974.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13999.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
大家官威都很大沒有啦不會啦來立法院一副愛來不來我要走就走甚至什麼來來來我們一樣一樣來我們通過了財政收支劃分法你們行政院發言人說什麼收財劃法總預算要從邊我說他散播假訊息政府帶頭搞認知作戰他否認 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14000.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14021.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
他說什麼沒有沒有沒有我是用假設的語氣我說有可能要從編我的行政院發言人喔是用有可能要從編啦來硬拗那如果要看竹子我們就來看竹子來看一下那一天我先講我的立場啦我的行政院發言人搞不清楚狀況自己判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14030.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14059.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
對社會大眾有可能要從邊是在恐嚇國會還是在恐嚇人民還有臉硬拗喔我們的立場很清楚啊他不下台我清楚的表示我們一定提案發言人士相關的預算我們一定會大砍我說出去的話我一定會兌現其他黨團支持或不支持我們都尊重但這是我們的立場但結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14060.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14067.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
對於自己釋放假訊息毫無反省繼續出來亂喔我為什麼要繼續出來亂喔他說要調逐治稿所以我說他說只是可能甚至需要重編可能甚至前面是什麼話 來他說呢明年度的總預算本身就會受到嚴重的衝擊來 請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14090.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14115.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
明年的預算指的就是2025年今年的預算民主黨受到什麼衝擊了大院審議的結果什麼叫大院審議的結果因為現在在審議現在在審議什麼那個預算啊 總預算他所講說因為財化法通過所以明年度的預算本身就會受到嚴重的衝擊受到什麼衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14118.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14126.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
請說明因為我看不懂啊我完全看不懂啊因為解釋上來講到底那個生肖 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14127.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14154.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
生效日期以後那個是到底是今年的預算到底是114年預算還是從115年預算開始所以行政院的立場是什麼行政院的立場是什麼行政院立場上114年數我們不會從編就按照這樣大院審議結果我們依法行政院行政院不就有立場了嗎行政院的立場才一套發言人出來講另外一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14155.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14179.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
行政院發言人的工作是什麼啊是精準的傳遞行政院的政策立場給全台灣社會知道結果你們派出來的發言人不是精準的傳遞行政院的立場是在散播假訊息發言人表達的是說往後也不是只有今年度可能往後等一下等一下他講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14180.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14197.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
大家不是在看組織稿嗎我就在上面給你看啊明年度的預算本身就會受到嚴重的衝擊如何受到嚴重的衝擊嘛什麼叫做我不要生氣你們行政院發言人可以這樣子出來隨便亂講話我在給你嚴肅的講這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14203.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14227.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你在上面跟我耍水皮一次喔我沒有跟你耍水皮一次我說發言人已經對外說明了所以發言人的說明你是接受的是嗎是吧行政院的發言人出來散播假訊息不道歉還硬凹說要看逐字稿說他只是甚至可能那甚至可能前一句是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14228.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14256.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
明年度的預算就會受到嚴重的衝擊衝擊在哪裡所以我才今天請教你衝擊在哪裡啊你想來給大家聽聽嘛要看審議的結果看什麼審議的結果總預算審議的結果總預算審議的結果跟財政收支劃分法有什麼關係最後不管怎麼樣還是要看立法院審議的結果對啊那跟財政收支劃分法有什麼關係你有沒有要從邊啊你有沒有要從邊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14260.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14261.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我有說錯嗎好好接下來請第一學中委員好感謝主席感謝秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14291.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14302.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
阿丁委員好運輸長好 緩和一下情緒啦這罐阿姨 以前罵好多次了不會生氣啦這人會這罐改善的資料我在這裡 今天透過我們法輪專案檢討的議題我稍後要先跟議事長解答兩件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14317.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14321.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這件事就是我們本人現在切記在推動這個商業經濟的升值當然商業建築對我們來說是非常重要當我們好位商業分區的居民居民已經通過這個環境目前以產業園區抱肩作業的地方已經提送內政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14343.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14346.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
依區域計劃法規定取得開發許可,這個隔離歷代也規劃依照符合內政部及農業部的所規範,希望可以請秘書長,這個後續,這個後續的進度,想可以請秘書長,跟我們互相講一下,說威脅的定數,給我們推動快一點,這樣好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14371.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14382.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我跟委員報告原來的案子送過來的時候大家跨部會討論可能還有幾點的疑慮農業部說那個好像他們水源區經過的地方這看要怎麼處理另外一個說原來報過來說有哪些廠商可能會進駐那是需求端嘛要不然我們開了沒有人來也怪怪的嘛現在說 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14398.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14413.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
當初報過來跟現在好像有有換了不太一樣那我們就盡快的對盡快的重新重新再重新再盤點然後再送過來我們現在用電啦用電啦用水啦都中文文 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14414.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14423.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
當我們中央新疆通過,讓土地變均,變均過後,我們就可以開始造商,開始增加就業機會,地方經濟可以更加發展。另外就是我們分林的寶宗產業園區,我們環境國會一定當一一二年十二月對設施計劃地理的改動,這個環境影響經過的範圍, |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14442.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14457.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
飛機啦 經濟國有承諾說會加速來管理後續這些程序這個國分審會請秘書長幫我們追蹤一下既然經濟部有這樣的說明 我們就來追蹤我們真的 我們很希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14460.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14464.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這個就業機會因為那分流齁林考所開始都漸漸加以老年化小年輕人都出外去做工作我們如果在地自己有就業機會小年輕人有力度也可以直接來照顧大人促進到我們當地的經濟的一個發展林考所也可以增加齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14482.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14498.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
如果有產業發展是最好的,事實上我在國防會擔任主委的時候也推動地方創生,事實上雲林有很多很多的年輕人他們也從事地方創生的一些活動,而且表現都非常非常好我相信我們行政院也樂觀其成,這個國分10塊多少我們今天針對我們討論的議題就是這個法輪的事件的國分,我們這個法輪通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14509.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14511.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
現在有更新資料了,據名通報的案件大概是126件126件,這樣算起來還有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14537.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14547.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
比我們預估要多啦所以這個我們還是怎麼樣來盡快處理所以我們這個公務單位這個過年的問題愛情來檢視我們現今的這個大平台當然最大的問題就是要求具體 具體檢舉所以當我們勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14559.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14564.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
互發生問題後大量爆料,在先前公開說這個平台要求拒引檢舉,再來我們這案件就大量的減少有時候有的有些事,像我以前在電影座代表會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14575.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14579.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我只說公所,甚至連管府的法令案都有,都有電線來到我們這邊所以過去的施工過程,都是當地方政府他們裡面的人出台公所這樣而已,經過到我們這個行政調查所以我們是要透明化,可以讓大家對 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14597.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14601.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我們這個公務,公務隊,這個人在說的鐵飯碗,這個職業,大家可以更加安心來報考,還是說,用以來來承擔這些我們他們公務上的一些責任,有的最近我們公務隊,就真的客公務另外的人越來越少了, |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14618.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14625.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
對啊,如果有這個過分,可能我們行政院也要想辦法去改變要怎麼說,能夠啟用年輕人的管理來倒立我們這個公家這個公務體系,像這樣好啦,這樣,我要給技術長休息一下好,謝謝,謝謝我預想啦,阿杜啊,要幫你拜託一件工作好,我知道,我知道再拜託你幫我們推廣一下好,謝謝,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14649.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14656.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
好 接下來請鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員不在我們請王紅薇委員好 謝謝主席我先請我們的來 行政院秘書長好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14672.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14701.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
王委員好秘書長好那麼今天基本上我還是在關心有關於就是一直不停存在在我們公務體系裡面的霸凌案那現在以這個人事總署的官員因為他羞辱這個部署的霸凌案他記了兩大過免職這跟之前的勞動部那北區分署署長是一樣的那這兩大過的免職基本上是依據公務人員考機法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14704.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14710.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
秘書長知道嗎理論上是這樣但是這個個案我沒有那麼仔細的去了解那我現在跟秘書長來說明我們現在如果依照公務人員考積法他確實有可以一次計兩大過處分但是呢目前並沒有明文規定有關於霸凌啊或者是性騷案等等之類或者是什麼酒駕獨駕之類那現在其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14733.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14751.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
司法院考试院想要修法可是迟迟没有拿出来所以我觉得我们行政院应该跟考试院密切联系相关的修法也就是说现在看起来我们可能因应舆论上的压力媒体上的压力说哇我就给他两大过处分 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14752.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14780.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
可是日後不要出現爭議也就是說在法上面沒有那麼明確因為公務人員一次給他記兩大過處分是很嚴重的對不對應該很清楚所以不要免掉以後的爭議所以第一個希望我們行政院跟考試院能夠趕快針對這些相關的懲處辦法在法律上不夠周延的地方趕快修法補強可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14782.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14808.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我同意委員的看法兩個部分一個部分修法的部分我們跟考試院已經有聯絡了看看要怎麼修法這個是委員剛才提到的第二個就是說計兩大過的確是非常重的處分那當事人基本上可以提出他可以提申訴的那就會到保訓會去保訓會如果還沒有他還可以提救濟所以有好多的關他可以提出來當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14809.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14814.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
如果不到那個程度做這樣的決定已經造成傷害也不好所以我同意就是說怎麼樣系統化我覺得把法律上面把它強化第一個也不要讓公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14824.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14846.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
就是他受到這個不白之淵第二當然最重要是我們對外先說給他借糧大家過處分不要過一陣子之後他申復成功然後根本就這個這個是假的那另外請問一下我們大齡通報平台在上線之後現在收案的件數是多少呢高委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14848.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14873.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
具名的具名的現在是他有彙整了因為有些很多案子是相關聯的大概有126個案子126對對對對那那個未具名呢未具名的是12件12件所以126個具名的案件其實這個數目非常多因為現在短短應該不到一個月嘛對不對所以這126個 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14874.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14890.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
都會立刻的加以處理嗎會調查他一個月要給我們調查的結果好就是一個月相關各相關除非他有特別的理由要講理由才可以再延一個月好因為時間關係我想請教一下我剛才也問勞動部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14892.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14918.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
也就是說在我們現在這麼多公家機關出現霸凌事件之後其實很多都擔心公家機關官官相護而且沒有辦法真正的能夠來處理所以我們現在很多的基層公務人員的團體都要求希望能夠比照能夠讓公務員納入職安法職業安全衛生法的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14919.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14940.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
好那當然因為職安法是針對一般勞工那所以這一部分因為勞動部長已經已經同意我他說他也會跟這個考試院來做研商因為我們也要去回應基層公務人員的心聲所以秘書長我們行政院可不可以把這個至少納入考量因為不要每次都說 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14941.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14968.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
哎呀這個是勞工公務人員不是用這個體系可是這個體系事實上我必須講這個公信力已經現在不為基層公務人員所信任所以這部分我們行政院可不可以去跟考試院去做演商就是這樣就是說您剛剛提到的這個職工法那個部分的保障那我們會把它實際上的這個條文保障加到 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14969.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14986.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
公務人員保障法裡面來那就會形成有同樣的這個保障基礎了所以你要修公務人員保障法對不對我有看到你報告多久會提出我們希望說看看能不能這個會就是下個會期就把它提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14987.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
15010.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
好這是你們的修法的計畫但是我還是希望你們能夠去回應基層公務人員的需求跟考試委員去商量一下如果大家真的覺得治安法而且現在還大家希望組工會了對不對公務人員還希望組工會那是不是在部分的部分讓他們覺得更安心他們可不可以去適用治安法的一個保障好不好好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
15017.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
15032.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
接下来请黄建斌委员黄建斌委员黄建斌委员不在好那发言委员除不在场者其余均已发言完毕好那OK请请这个高金委员会议询问 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
15036.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
15053.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
請問一下趙偉我從早上到現在而且看到今天的這個霸凌案的專案報告請問一下我們上一次會議的議事錄是不是能夠念一下秘書長你知道我們的會議記錄是什麼嗎通過的請上來一下請秘書長你看到我們的第二案沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
15062.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
15073.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
有鑑於本12月18號內政委員會審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院部分行政院秘書長龔明星已至會議室被尋卻接獲神秘電話後未經召委同意下隨即離開會場明顯迴避國會的監督 原此為了維護國會的尊嚴要求行政院在一週內向立法院內政委員會提出調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
15090.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
15114.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
以釐清事實真相,並追究相關失職人員責任聽到了沒有?你今天雖然從頭到尾一開始一肩扛可是你今天為什麼沒有寫報告出來呢?已經一週啦你今天的報告除了你今天的這個暴鄰案之外除了要審查你預算之外你還要有一個就是你未經召委同意下隨即離開會場 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
15116.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15120.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你迴避了國會的監督更何況從頭到尾我來講一遍一早的是民進黨佔據的主席台不讓我們開會對吧後來召委進來了拿了內政委員會的麥克風在那邊說我們要延後開會把時間延長你們都還在 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15141.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15146.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
然後呢 到了下午祖密打電話給您了您來了 您坐在那裡隨即影像看得很清楚你接了一通電話之後全部鳥獸散可是你今天的回答你都推給朝偉說你人沒來 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15159.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15161.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
說你人來了 召委不在所以你看到以為會議還沒有開始你就離開了是這樣嗎你今天不僅僅是沒有針對我們的譴責第二案做一個釐清調查還有責任釐清還有追究相關失職人員的責任之外你還把這個東西推給召委我身為內政委員會的委員我看不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15187.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15199.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
本來今天不用會議詢問的我的建議待會如果我們的秘書長不針對這件事情公開的在國會道歉的話我們就不審理預算 謝謝好 謝謝高金委員那請秘書長回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15211.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15236.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
不是說明是針對針對我們議事錄確定你的說明我們都聽到了議事錄第二請問你看了沒有秘書長你們有看過這個嗎你的國會聯絡人對我現在拿給你我看過了一週之內那你看過你為什麼今天還不這麼做沒有你是表示國會啊我沒有表示國會行政跟立法是平行的耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15237.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15261.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
你不要那麼兇嘛我沒有那麼兇那你拍桌子啊我是在跟你講理對啊那我現在在看啊那你今天要追究責任追究什麼責任追究責任是你的責任這是譴責案已經通過了那我就接受譴責啊那你要跟他道歉啊我沒有辦法道歉為什麼沒有辦法道歉因為我剛剛我剛剛已經做了說明了這裡告訴你一周內要向立法院內政委會提出調查報告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15264.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15268.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我會提供調查報告我會提供調查報告那剛剛秘書長有說抱歉 我們的譴責案是說一週內請你看一下時間照理說你今天應該要提出一個調查報告然後要追究相關私職人員既然您剛剛已經說您意見考下來 請問一下要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15293.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15300.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
秘書長剛剛好像有說你們會提在今天以前提出來你們提出來之後我們才審行政院的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15301.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15326.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
所以因為我們等一下處理完臨時提案我們預計要休息給大家用餐那我們下午先審陸委會跟海基會給行政院時間那我們陸委會海基會審完行政院再回來行政院可以這樣嗎你們除非你們在我們是不是在我們中午休息時間之前你們提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15328.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15336.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
還有相關的責任喔請你告訴我沒有什麼清楚因為你們沒有跟召委沒有跟我們的主席講的時候你就離開了你該備詢的時間沒有在備詢台上沒有在位置上你知道內政委員會那一天也在這邊一套糊塗內政部的部長從頭做到尾 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15354.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15362.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
你知道嗎 行政院都可以這樣子帶頭違法嗎立法院三讀通過的經法補償 卓院長說不通過就不通過嗎不給六萬塊就不給六萬塊嗎你們從頭到尾都是可以這麼二把的嗎你們到底眼中還有沒有國會的國會你們眼中到底還有沒有我們中華民國的憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15378.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15397.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我同意剛剛我們的召委這件事情總是要給一個交代不是您在這邊講的就算說你一間扛起責任你以為怎麼樣以為怎麼樣不是這個樣子的我相信今天不只是國民黨的立法委員無黨籍的立法委員包括民進黨的立法委員都覺得你在這邊實在是很藐視國會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15402.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15429.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
好 如果你今天記錄下來以後是換執政黨執政的話另外的執政黨執政如果有人這樣走的話你們就不要提出譴責案秘書長您剛剛在本席質詢的時候也有表達嘛其實是不應該啦我們這個備詢列席的那所以是不是請你們就是再盡快來提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15431.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15459.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
當然本席先才是啦針對剛剛高金委員講的確實這個譴責案兩案也當天通過了那在場的也有這個246六位委員他的這個提共同提案所以請行政院能夠在今天以內提出調查報告我們看到調查報告我們才審查行政院的預算好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15460.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15464.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好謝謝好那接著請張宏祿召委事實上我們已經有寫了我要講話召委我覺得啦剛剛講的大家講的都有道理不過就程序問題就那個他們的譴責案議事錄確定我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15485.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15499.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
這個禮拜一才那個所以如果今天才禮拜三那一個禮拜我覺得這個時間也還沒到啦我這邊提出我們的會議記錄是這樣子的這個是白紙黑字我們是禮拜一才處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15507.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15524.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
不是過一年 那我們禮拜一通過了那他們收到公文或什麼一個禮拜之內我覺得這樣子是合理的啦我覺得這個是合理的那我本席可以請教在場的委員表達這個意見好 那先請牛許庭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15529.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15545.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
謝謝主席 雖然這個張宏祿召會講的也有一定的道理啦但是議事錄本身只是針對會議紀錄的一個確認而已那實際上譴責案生效的時間只要那場會議是合法的會議當然就是從那邊開始起算我是覺得這還是可以把道理講清楚第二個民主黨你如果用我覺得沒有責任這種話來開脫是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15548.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15562.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那當然嘛現在大家因為各自有政黨立場那就大家講說不會啊沒有關係啊但是其實大家都還是立法委員你實在很難想像不管是誰執政不管今天誰站在這個質詢台上台下沒有官員那事情本來就是很難看的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15563.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15587.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那你今天又沒有辦法把這個過程做一個清楚的還原又沒有辦法給大家一個交代也沒有辦法跟這個這個不備詢的這件事情對社會大眾有一個公開的道歉這實在是不太合理啦我希望秘書長待會用中午休息的時間冷靜一下好好的想一想把事情交代清楚這樣子大家還可以好生好氣來審預算要不然喔這後面血流成河那實在是沒辦法好不好我希望秘書長想清楚啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15589.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15617.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
秘書長此例不可開所以本席希望我們這個12月18號這件事呢不要開一個不好的先例所以確實啦我們等一下處理完提案我們會休息那請行政院這邊看看可不可以加速這個如果你們可以在我們等一下審完我們在預計兩點要繼續審預算我給大家中午休息大概一個小時用餐所以也給行政院一些時間好嗎秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15618.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15625.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
好 OK 請秘書長回座那請問這個各位委員我們好 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15626.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15650.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
那我就先針對剛剛委員的發言本席請問一下是不是我們還是請行政院在兩點以前如果可以提出這個譴責案裡面所寫的這個報告那我們就兩點我們準時的審查行政院的預算那如果不行我們就請 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15652.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15669.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
行政院這個提報告那我們就先審查陸委會跟海基會的還是說大家希望就是照張宏祿召委的提議說再給他們一些時間所以本席請教一下在場委員的意見怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15679.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15701.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
那如果大家對本席這樣的安排沒有特別意見我們就請行政院請行政院能夠盡快提出這個該有的報告那我們也請我們的內政委員會我們邀請內委會海基會能夠在下午兩點以前請他們務必到場列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15702.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15725.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
接下来我们向委员会宣告我们委员高金素美黄建斌委员所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报书面质询和未及答复部分请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并复制本会我们现在处理临时提案一案请宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15727.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15755.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
為使預算審查更有效率行政機關執行預算更為明確立法院內政委員會審議預算的行政機關自一百一十五年預算書送達時應並送細部計畫說明書說明預算編列依據規劃執行方式的公本委員會參考是否有當進行公決提案人徐欣盈張志倫徐宇甄宣讀完畢好請問這個臨時提案大家有沒有意見好沒有意見那我們就照案這樣子好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15757.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15757.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
請這個張章偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15761.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15787.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
有兩個啦 我覺得兩個可能我們要思考一下我們要想一下不是啦 我有兩點啦你預算書雖然是我覺得立法院跟行政院我們是平行的那如果是要做這樣子的應該是不是立法院對所有的部會要一致 第一個第二個 我想要了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15789.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15808.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
你們所有細部計畫說明書就我編過預算不是所有的東西都有細部說明書喔我們如果當過首長的都知道這樣你們做的到嗎沒有的東西你們生的出來還是有沒有要修正如果要修正是不是要跟大家溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15811.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15837.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
還是要不要請他說明沒有 這個跟行政院這個是我們針對內政委員會的相關單位難道行政院要代為說明因為這個純粹是我們委員通過他們要照做那我先回復一下張昭偉的這個因為這個在立法院目前包含這個會期的我們拿到的預算書裡面如果委員會有通過過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15839.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15859.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
他們行政單位都會照樣執行包含我們這次園民會包含這個農業部還有像漁業署他們都有提出相關他們行政單位知道就是他的編列依據還有一些規劃執行方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15860.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15871.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
就是他所能夠的詳細他們提出來所以這個部分在這一次的預算審查有些單位他已經提出來所以行政單位是知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15874.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15900.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我不是反對你說這樣子只是他裡面我們必須說有一些預算是真的沒有細部計畫那我所知道的是農業部他們是立法院審議後15日內他就農業部將尾辦及補助計畫預算這些東西送來我覺得這是合理的可是如果我們沒有寫清楚有的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15902.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15904.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
確實是沒有續覆計畫那個預算編列是沒有的啊所以 等於 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15910.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15932.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
等一下我們如果把他修正跟農業部一樣我覺得是OK但如果只有單純細部計畫這裡面很多的那個預算是沒有細部計畫的他連生都生不出來啦我是覺得我們內政委員會我們提出的也要讓大家可以說我們內政委員會提出的是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15934.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15940.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
仿效這個會期農業部的做法所以您建議是這樣子的將委辦及補助計劃預算細部計劃說明書 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15952.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15972.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
報告 不好意思因為這次園民會有那我們請高紀委來我在省內政部預算的時候其實我有一個主決議就是這麼講的啦就是請內政部參照農業部的這個提供的一些相關的西部計畫我是有做這樣一個主決議啦然後跟大家說明跟報告一下謝謝我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15977.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15991.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
因為農業部有這樣的一個做法那高金委員事實上他在預算提案裡面也有類似的那所以我們是不是比照這樣的做法我們可以來做這樣子好那請年委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15993.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
16022.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
謝謝喔 我們那個禮拜一在審客家委員會的時候我有看到客家委員會有一本啦其實我想召委要的就是都要比照啦就是說 而且不是在說預算審完之後才處理因為預算審完之後那也沒意思了嘛其實應該是在審預算的時候做一個補充的資料這樣子其實也可以節省行政單位在溝通的時候的一些時間所以我覺得客委會的那個模式看大家參佐一樣因為才看到大家還有點印象這樣的模式是不是可以參佐還是說這就是農業部的模式是不是行政機關說明一下然後以利大家到時候做出共識做出決定 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
16027.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
16044.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
我不是說這個提案不好是說文字我們要修正有些預算是絕對是沒有細部計畫說明書的如果你要這樣他們有的真的拿不出來這個沒有辦法這個我們必須行政的東西我們要寫清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
16046.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
16065.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
其實我們這樣寫行政單位他拿出他所能的最終還是委員在省預算今天即便我們照行政單位他給本席的我們這樣修改修改完最後他拿 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
16066.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
16089.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
拿出來的如果委員有疑慮要刪要動那還是在委員手上所以如果真的要修正的話也不要只有農業部我們農業部還有像園民會等於是他們都有寫過西部計畫這樣的做法那我們請行政單位還是說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
16097.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
16113.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
報告委員這個因為本院的預算都是基本行政維持費所以呢農業部還有其他的有提供的部分呢就是委辦跟補助所以委辦補助的部分呢我們是可以以委員的意見來辦理那其他的部分是不是請委員就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
16115.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
16142.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
讓我們就是文字修正因為希望說是在我們的預算書送立法院審議後15日內將委辦及補助計畫的預算的細部計畫可不可以建議這樣子我們比較有可能會那本席要了解一下你所謂的補助計畫我們這次內政委員會審預算的時候包含內政部包含本席記的好幾個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
16144.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
16171.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我們看預算書就是很粗略結果我們一要在審預算當天又給我很詳細的那些都是叫做補助計劃嗎還是什麼所以我們會這樣子要的原因是你在審查的當天你才給我然後就拗我們說你看我有細部計劃請問我們怎麼看那我們也是為了替人民把關監督所以我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
16171.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
16181.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
你更早你就給詳盡的我們跟我們的整個幕僚團隊我們都會仔細的替民眾監督把關嘛我們的目的也是要了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
16184.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
16202.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
一定要寫說違辦及補助計劃只有這個我們都是基本形成維持比如說水電費或什麼都是一個工作項目就是立場的那有計劃的部分因為我們也都沒有什麼中長程那都是基本維運的部分所以針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
16207.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
16216.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那這樣 那這樣 我們針對可以可以可以 莊惠莊惠我是不是說一下應該是115年預算書送達時有細部計畫說明書者應一併送達有細部計畫要一併送達這樣就解決我們要的問題了也不會是沒有的但是本席還有一個重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
16233.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
16250.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
沒有沒有本行希望行政單位對於預算編列的依據還有這個工作重點執行方式這個你們可以寫每個單位都可以寫我們如果通過了他們還是可以寫讓我們理解嘛所以我可以嘛那你們不要刪掉嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
16251.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
16259.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這個要嘛照你們剛剛說的這樣不然就照剛剛講的可是你說若有那他跟你說是若有有我沒有講若有我說有 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16264.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16289.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那委辦補助因為現在目前都是委辦補助而已所以整個行政院構計會都是這樣子我們的部分可是大部位他們有中長城我們沒有我們也沒有科技尤其是中長城計畫現在不是指行政院而已啊現在是指內政部或內政委員會的其他的我們不是指行政院就是我們院本部的部分就是委辦補助因為你們也在內政委員會對 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16292.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16314.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
是不是可以就好可以委扮不住但是後面那個編列依據工作重點不是不是工作你可以加工作重點還有規劃執行方式等規劃執行方式不要刪掉因為你們規劃你們的規劃的想法跟你們執行方式還是寫嘛好不好那前面可以前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16315.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16341.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
可以立法院審議後15日內仿效農業部還有園民會做法可以嗎將委辦及補助計劃那後面是什麼預算補助計劃的預算細部計劃說明書好不好好那我們就這樣修正文字那這樣各位委員有沒有意見修正文字的部分我們沒有看到好那現在我們是調整一下你叫他趕緊修正趕緊來大家看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16347.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16355.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
我們知道行政院但是他這邊寫的是內政委員會內政委員會包括很多的部會不是只有你們行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16394.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16394.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16419.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16442.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
本席想請教一下你們不能等立法院審議後15日內這個應該早就有了吧所以是不是就是預算書送達時應該仿效農業部園民會做法因為你不可能是審議後15日內才送你這個應該早有了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16453.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16470.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
所以不是立法院審議你是送達立法院不要加審議啦送達立法院後15日所以因為你講審議我們這次審議到幾月才那個我去掉審議兩個字可以嗎好那這個Kobe給那個這個算 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16474.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16485.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
可能唸一遍大家知道以後是嗎 可以嗎這個唸一遍好 那本席先唸一遍然後大家看意見然後如果OK我們請議事人員Coby |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16487.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16498.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我們為使預算審查更有效率行政機關執行預算更為明確立法院內政委員會審議預算的行政機關自115年預算書送立法院後15日內仿效 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16507.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16534.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
应该要写提供因为你你仿效这个是后面你说明的提供仿效农业部原民会做法将委办及补助计划预算细部计划说明书说明预算编列依据工作重点规划执行方式等供本委员会参考是否有当尽情公决行政机关这样可以好 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16541.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16563.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
對好好那如果可以的話我們現在請也不用仿效應該是提供農業部欸欸欸等一下對不用仿效了提供提供這個對對的做法欸沒有也是要仿效要啦要啦要啦不叫仿效就是其實像農業部跟人民會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16564.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16573.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我要講仿效怪怪的啦要明就是比照比照對應該是對對對比照比照比照比照對對對這文字的部分對比照農業部園民會做法對啦比照比照好可以這個那請大家稍等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16611.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16616.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那我們下午因為現在又超過一點了我們下午2點10分預計開始審查預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16632.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16635.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
中文字幕 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16659.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16671.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好 現在請各位委員參考這個桌上我們這個建議修正的文字臨時提案的修正文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16697.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16708.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
好本席請教各位委員臨時提案修正的部分是否照案通過有沒有意見沒有好謝謝修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16710.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16731.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
那现在我们休息到下午2点10分14点10分也请我们内政委员会通知陆委会海基会如果2点10分以前行政院没有提出这个报告我们就先审查陆委会跟海基会的预算谢谢现在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16757.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16760.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
三位一人喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16762.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16762.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
謝謝觀賞,訂閱,按讚! |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16786.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16794.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
謝謝觀看,請訂閱、按讚及分享。 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
19386.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
19387.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
21041.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
21046.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
要丟到那个1000兆几块七天一轮啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
21046.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
21055.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
對,因為我看光了,一定要去啊那什麼樣?沒有啦,看光啦,那時候看燈的啊因為我是新北的,看燈那時候我有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
21062.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
21077.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
創工協會我以前做理事長啊創工那時候有靠你經營啊,因為喔,我們辦會的單位,我們不在那裡啊因為創工王要表明啊,現在差都幾千了啊啊,現在我們差不多有四、五百個啊但是你也是要幫他,要人家幫忙啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
21097.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
21098.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
唉唷唉唷唉唷唉唷 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
21156.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
21157.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
在開始進行審查預算之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
21170.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
21194.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
是不是先確立我們現在是要審查行政院的預算還是陸委會的預算秘書長我們剛剛內政委員會的部分委員是有提議希望秘書長能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
21198.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
21211.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
提供報告還有道歉秘書長你表達一下你的報告是不是有準備好以及是否向內政委員會來致歉前秘書長我們報告是有準備但是剛剛有很多的委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
21223.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
21244.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
有準備,那要不要給大家看,大家要不要看那是之前準備的,今天之前準備的今天之前,所以剛剛沒有在就今天的開會然後去趕快就今天開會,橫著整個的情況看要不要做調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
21245.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
21264.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
對啊那這個如果是這樣的話就我們就按照一個禮拜的時間禮拜一意思就是確認嘛那我們可能就下禮拜一之間如果需要補充的話我們就在那時候再來交不然就是我們就是今天之前我們寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
21267.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
21287.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
那好啦 如果是這樣的話 我們就先審查陸委會的預算我們陸委會跟海基會預算審查完之後 我們會再請行政院回來看看你們是不是交報告或者是怎麼樣好不好因為不然這樣時間可能也會再拖延下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
21289.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
21296.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
請問一下,你現在要請那兩單位還是要叫他們擔責擔?叫秘書長擔責擔,還是要擔他?我可以明確的才是,那請秘書長還有相關同仁你們可以回去針對今天上午委員提出來的所有的質詢的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
21316.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
21343.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
以及我們上午的會議結束前多位委員所表達的期望行政院提供的報告以及希望秘書長能夠致歉這一件事你們先去做你們的討論行政院的可以先行離席但是下午下午我們陸委會跟海基會 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
21344.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
21357.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
审查到我们认为可以请行政院回来的时候再请我们的议事人员通知行政院相关的列席官员还有秘书长再回来好 本席做以上的才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
21359.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
21386.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
不是那現在等到幾點就看我們的陸委會還機會審到幾點這點本席也無法掌握好不好我會這樣問是因為我希望雖然我們省預算有省預算的效率但是行政部門他們也有行政的效率他們也有很多工作可以處理那如果說可以我們如果審到5點或5點半還沒有審完的話是不是跟他們說你們都看完就不用再回來了還是怎樣請主席清楚說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
21387.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
21414.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
我沒有理解錯的話今天的議程是到所有討論事項處理完畢嗎對所以今天無論如何要把這件事情處理完畢而且行政單位我們在審查預算中行政單位本來就是整個完全的配合立法院我想這是正常的那我們給行政院包含秘書長跟幕僚可以這個沒關係本席說可以離席但是不離席也沒關係但是本席說可以離席但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
21416.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
21428.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
要請你們回來 所以你們都要回來不是沒關係 您的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
21432.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
21449.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
沒有我是希望行政院秘書長因為他的報告他剛剛言下之意是這是今天以前寫的他也知道拿出來可能很多委員會炸鍋所以我請秘書長呢回去好好寫如果到下午再拿出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
21451.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
21475.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那時候我們大概就要這個好好的看這個上午的質詢大家到底有沒有充分的理解好 早上來 請高靖維我真的覺得你太善良了 目的良善但是我認為就是說那一天秘書長打電話跟你講說他要過來那個叫欺騙 你懂嗎這個不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
21476.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
21494.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
召委在不在然後他以為會議沒有開他離開我剛剛一直講清楚是就是他是接了一通電話然後掛了電話起身就離開讓我們那麼多委員在這邊沒有行政官員質詢我們也質詢了很段時間啊是不對嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
21495.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
21501.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那就讓他等吧我們是不是要請他們提那個報告你剛剛還說他其實一早就提到報告了為什麼不拿出來呢現在又說提早拿出來我們就會炸鍋我覺得一代說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
21512.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
21534.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我剛稍微瞄了一下 抱歉抱歉 稍微一再說謊 這個我沒有辦法接受 磁力一開以後立法院到底要不要對行政官員有一點約束呢是 那高進委員您建議是怎麼樣我現在就讓他留下來啊那他們的報告就讓 報告拿出來看一下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
21540.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
21559.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
有有有好像他有說要重寫秘書長是吧有嗎有說重寫下午下午再拿來吧秘書長對對他會做修改那這樣要讓他修改好那委員提議要看那請發下去來請發下去給所有委員看 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
21562.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
21575.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
對啊 預算是他到底要不要審嘛那天本來就是要審他們的預算啊不是嗎 趙偉是他們自己不願意審預算啊他自己不看重自己的預算啊我們為什麼要讓他擔心呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
21577.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
21595.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
本席本來是想說節省時間因為今天審查好幾個單位的預算但是我們尊重每一位委員的提議所以我們現在請行政院的報告是不是發下去讓所有委員看也請委員們看完之後表達一下我們接下來我們是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
21605.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
21616.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
先審陸委會的預算還是說如果大家覺得OK那當然本席會尊重委員的提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
21618.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
21636.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
主席是不是先先把單位我就是看了我相信大家一定會炸鍋不是你善不善良的問題而是立法院到底要不要開始先立 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
21636.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
21655.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
對 所以我們不想開此先例所以第一應該一早拿出來的他沒有拿出來已經是在騙你第二次了然後現在拿出來的本來在質詢的時候我們就可以針對他這個東西質詢對不對但現在拿出來我沒有質詢要省預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
21656.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
21680.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
不過我們質詢的時候她這個內容好像跟她回答的是一樣一模一樣啊 對對對但是基本是我們在做的決議譴責案裡面的決議第二案裡面寫的怎麼可以如此呢所以 對所以我是非常堅定的要堅守立法院裡面的行政規則當然當然我們也是所以現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
21682.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
21695 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
高靜雯先生看過以後是希望她重寫嗎?一定是的啊她必須要回去重寫嗎?還是在這裡就可以寫?那既然還是你要打電話給那個神秘人物那一通電話來的神秘人物請你回去的那個人要不你現在也可以在現場打給她啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
21704.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
21716.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
你既然那天讓我們內政委員會的委員在這邊等那麼久 專委在這邊等那麼久而且還不是本委員會的委員也來質詢 那你就在現場等吧大家的時間都很寶貴好 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
21724.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
21753.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
所以高級委員的意思是讓秘書長在這然後秘書長是不是還是可以修改然後您人在這他們再傳給您看這樣可以嗎?大概這位他要怎麼改就在現場改他如果沒有辦法做決定要等那位神秘電話來的話我們也准許他在旁邊打電話啊看要怎麼改啊改到大家覺得說這件事情他們真的是有一個交代有一個負責了我們當然就省他預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
21754.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
21765.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
好吧我的建議是這樣謝謝所以我們終究就是要再看我們行政院提出來的修改後的報告那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
21769.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
21795.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
那其他官員我們要讓陸委會的就其他列席的呢您看我們現在不就是陸委會跟海紀會嗎對那我的本席指的是其他的是讓他們到樓下還是都可以啊看他們要的但是這個秘書長就在坐在這邊吧好好那我們現在那就請秘書長繼續留在這 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
21799.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
21807.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
那後面這位呢後面這位他也要留是不是沒有他們要不要宣布他是這一個應該也是可以法委會好好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
21814.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
21838.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
那我們請除了行政院秘書長我們留在我們202那其他行政院的官員 列席官員請到紅樓101那我們現在是不是邀請陸委會跟海基會以及其相關列席官員到我們紅樓202好 那麻煩議事人員通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
21850.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
21874.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
每一次我們還沒有審到我們說我們上次我們審的我們說可能今天沒辦法審到的單位請他回去我們招委是說我們都要留下來因為我們今天排的排要審的各個單位都要留下來所以我們要求他留下來也沒有什麼不對啊我們沒有說不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
21880.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
21901.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
對啦 擔家擔啦對啦 擔家擔啦 嘿我真的不知道他怎麼溝通啊就說秘書長不要回去但是在樓下跟幕僚溝通 趕快修改他才可以處理啊不然他在這裡 他沒辦法處理啊因為就是 國務委員覺得呢還是就 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
21905.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
21934.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
各位他那天可以打電話他坐在這邊依然可以打電話下面的幕僚要怎麼樣跟他溝通要怎麼樣修改文字也可以我覺得這是態度的問題好本席尊重我們所有委員那就請是是所以站在那個立法院立法院我們這個希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
21938.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
21952.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
然後這邊很高尾就是有一個對啊大家都表達了嘛你希望什麼如果你只要我留在這邊我改不出對當作房子101對啊稍微大家都表達了啊你當101好不好對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
21958.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
21981.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那本席這樣啦幕僚請到樓下那你們怎麼樣處理好拿紙本的來給我們秘書長給秘書長修改好不好那好不好行政流程 行政流程要簽紙哪一個人要簽紙的東西都要簽紙上去對啊 他們簽完最後拿來這邊給您簽還有什麼行政業有一些單位的簽紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
21986.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
22008.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
那有要回行政院的簽程的你們在行政院處理嗎那就這樣好不好因為你們在樓下是給你們休息沒關係你們儘快處理請行政單位儘快處理但是秘書長請留在這邊好不好好那不要耽誤我們的時間好嗎好謝謝我們請陸委會跟海基會相關備詢單位就位 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
22016.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
22017.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
阿姨,你還好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
22049.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
22050.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
三分钟 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
22054.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
22060.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
郭文貴先生,你知不知道郭台銘的意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
22085.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
22094.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
22107.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
22113.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
我們請陸委會海基會的列席單位儘快就座 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
22115 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
22140.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
现在继续开会审查114年度中央政府总预算案关于大陆委员会财团法人海峡交流基金会以及台港经济文化合作策进会请宣读预算数及委员提案宣读完毕后再进行协商请宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
22142.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
22164.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
114年度大陸委員會稅務預算第二款罰款及賠償收入無劣數第十九項大陸委員會無劣數第四款財產收入第二十項大陸委員會五十五萬八千元第一幕財產資息五十五萬六千元第二幕廢舊物資售價兩千元第七款其他收入第二十項大陸委員會三萬一千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
22168.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
22190.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
稅出部分第二款行政院主款第十五項大陸委員會十億三千九百一十八萬六千元第一幕一般行政四億八千五百七十二萬一千元第二幕綜合規劃業務三千零六十六萬五千元第三幕經濟業務兩千五百六千萬九千元第四幕法政業務兩億八千七百五十一萬五千元第五幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
22191.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
22206.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
港澳蒙藏業務一億三千五百五十八萬元第六目聯絡業務三千一百七十一萬四千元第七目一般建築及設備文業術第八目電域備金兩百萬元第九目文教業務四千零三十五萬兩千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
22208.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
22226.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
大陆委员会主管财团法人海峡交流基金会114年度预算1.工作计划部分1.依据收入与支出审查结果随同调整2.总收入总支出及余处部分收入3亿3541万7千元支出3亿5436万6千元本期短处1894万9千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
22232.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
22251.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
大陆委员会主管财团法人台港经济文化合作策进会114年度预算工作计划部分依据收入与支出审查结果随同调整总收入总支出给予处部分收入3505万7000元支出3520万3000元本期短处14万6000元继续宣读提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
22253.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
22268.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
入委會部分第15項為第1至2案共2案內容請委員參閱第一幕一般行政為第3到第8案共計6案第二幕綜合規劃業務為第9至第18案共計10案第三幕經濟業務為第19到第28案共計10案第4幕法政業務為第29至第59案共計31案 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
22280.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
22290.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
第五幕港澳蒙藏業務為第60到第75案共計16案第六幕聯絡業務為第76至第82案共計7案第九幕文教業務為第83至第94案共計12案主決議部分為第95至第103案共計9案內容請委員參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
22306.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
22319.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
財團法人海峽交流基金會提案 收入部分一案 共計一案支出部分為第2至第18案 共計17案 內容請委員參閱主決議部分為第19至第22案 共計4案 內容請委員參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
22327.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
22339.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
台港經濟文化合作策進會預算提案收入部分委員無相關提案支出部分有委員麥玉珍委員議案內容請委員參閱宣讀完畢好現在進行協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
22346.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
22358.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
那我們因為今天下午要審的單位也算多所以我們是不是然後再加上陸委會跟海基會已經有蠻多時間跟委員溝通了所以我們現在會照 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
22361.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
22389.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
內政委員會給我們的這個預算資料我們就順著下來但是我們希望是能夠有效率那請這個我們審報的部分我們請委員可以提出這個詢問或一些提案的說明那接著行政單位需要行政單位回覆的回覆不然我們就直接就那一幕我們就來做一個決議好 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
22391.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
22416.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
現在我們說出部分第15項總共有兩案那請問提案委員黃建斌委員張志榮委員有沒有要發言好請黃建斌委員好謝謝主席這個案子本期是題列要減列500萬那雖然說我們的單位來說明不過因為我們現在看到的網路上宣導的大概都是以國安法的方向在 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
22417.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
22442.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
在在在做那其實沒有對我們兩岸交易區並沒有失去的這個交流增加那另外就是在我們看到那個他的那個平台是國人赴陸港澳動態登陸系統裡面也沒有看到他增加這個登陸的意願嗎那未來如果會你要怎麼樣在預算增加之後你能夠有效讓你們宣傳增加這個是不是可以來說明一下我這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
22443.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
22446.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
好 請問張志倫委員有沒有要說明請張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
22451.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
22463.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
好謝謝主席我今天提的是這個第二案有關於這個入委會的媒體宣傳費媒宣費跟業務宣導費編列了1485萬那叫113年的部分增加425萬5000元增幅40%漲幅極大顯不合理那我們認為入委會的媒宣費基本上是要與對岸這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
22478.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
22492.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
為了沒有對這個兩岸的交流跟維持和平有任何注意那陸委會在這一百一三年度對兩岸之間的角色我們認為現在也是不明確所以我跟建兵委員一樣我們提列減列五百萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
22496.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
22524.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
請行政單位盡快回覆剛剛黃建斌委員有請你們好 請主委邱主委謝謝主席謝謝兩位委員的垂詢有關於這個剛剛提到的行政支出有關媒體的費用最主要是因應中共對台的統戰宣傳以及對我這個越來越綿密的認知作戰我們需要把很多的政策講清楚我們需要更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
22525.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
22546.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
這些說明的這些能量來說明我們政府在追求一個和平穩定互利互惠健康有序的兩岸關係同時為了確保國人負入的安全我們不斷的把各種負入的風險提出來那麼剛剛也有提到說我們對於國人這個風險的這個保障不足其實我們這個多層次的那個動態這個有關於登陸系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
22555.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
22580.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
更多的我們有很多的一些宣導希望國人婦入要提高警覺那這部分我們也會來加強重點是我們如何推動一個相互尊重對等尊嚴健康有序的兩岸交流我們會全力來宣導也會依相關的法規依我們現在的政府的政策讓民眾能夠了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
22581.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
22594.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
也希望委員針對我們這一點點的預算提供我們必要的能量做好各種的反統戰還有這個反認知作戰的工作非常感謝兩位委員的指教好 那請兩位委員我們這一個部分最後決議如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
22604.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
22624.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
是三減五百還是一千兩個人是加起來還是合在一起那個主委說明之後其實也不知道說你要不要來減價你要不要來減價效果怎樣你說有很多平台可是那到底是哪一些我們不知道啊而且其實你從113跟140的預算來看是增加的那你告訴我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
22627.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
22639.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
主委你接下來我問你說你要怎麼讓增加這樣子的出籍率跟那個登記的意願其實你並沒有說到有啦登錄的意願跟委員報告有關登錄的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
22643.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
22659.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
我們的登錄系統已經是政府各部門登錄系統成績最好的短短的時間我們能夠拉到5%因為國人不習慣去登錄我們為了要加強說明我們也提供了三支專線給國人一些風險的諮詢另外我們也在機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
22664.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
22691.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
提供一些風險的小卡片讓國人 婦戮有更多的風險意識那總之我們對國人的保護是一種多層次的當然我們也會提供這個有關於簡訊給國人了解婦戮的時候當需要的時候它有一個依據哪些專線是可以使用的以確保國人的安全委員這部分有關您詮詢的這兩 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
22693.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
22705.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
有關於政策宣導的部分我們有一些詳盡的一些計畫我們是不是再跟委員說明一下我們這個經費是很少我們也希望委員能夠支持 非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
22706.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
22727.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
那請張宏祿召委先然後接著高金委員我覺得這個部分我覺得是可以討論的但我們是不是等一下竹木裡面都會討論到這些我們要不要這邊先保留我們去竹木那邊我們如果竹木有刪了這邊我們就可以不用再特別處理不然我會卡在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
22730.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
22755.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
請高經委員我也同意那個張召偉的意見但是我必須要先講一下你政策兩岸政策做不好你在做多少的事情也都沒有用然後第二件事情縱使是現在兩岸之間的關係好像惡意的螺旋上去你們解決問題的能力好像還是不足所以我是建議這樣子就是說你們在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
22758.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
22786.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
一案跟第二案裡面是 原列是1485萬那我有給建斌委員提案 那個那個連署那志倫也是500如果大家同意的話 兩個加起來就是減列500嘛好那是不是我們兩位提案的委員張志倫委員跟黃建斌委員是不是就500OK齁 好那我們就減列500 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
22789.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
22805.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
包委員真的是太多了啦我們從來沒有被減那麼多的啦這樣對於我們政策說明的能量就像兩岸關係越來越差只有更差沒有最差所以這就是表示你們失職了好不好請問一下陸委會你們113年的預算跟114年的預算差多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
22813.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
22842.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
报告委员我把那个差的部分跟您报告麻烦您增加多少我们在114年增加多少我们总共是增加了一亿一千万那其中补助我们海基会是七千五百万你已经增加了嘛两岸的关系现在这么差都比以前113年还差我们那么多出事的业务费用就增加一千两百万好了好了你就不用再回答了你已经回答我的问题了谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
22846.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
22857.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
為了符合我們那個卓院長所說的民間疾苦不要浪費公帑所以我的建議我的建議就是減六五百吧謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
22860.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
22883.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
委員這樣真的太多了謝謝委員指教邱主委不要再說了其實陸委會本席在質詢的時候也有也曾經說過不如裁撤所以你們現在這麼多的行政費用我們都還很多都保留所以剛剛高金委員竟然這樣講那我們是不是就尊重提案委員我們這個第15項我們就減列500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
22890.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
22895.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
但是因為他們堅持嘛所以我們就尊重好不好我們尊重每個委員的提案啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
22899.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
22917.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
你們的提案,我指的是你們的提案我們一定尊重,好不好你們的提案我們不會忽略,好不好好,主席,請說主席,你說做不好,你來說要怎麼做怎麼,跟你說他做不好,自己不愛錢給他做,跟你不是說你不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
22923.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
22944.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
最主要讓大家知道 因為我們都尊重體育的人 不錯 只是說可以讓他跟體育的人稍微溝通一下 我也能夠做得好你看現在管理人員不好 如果不做 都不好不是說讓他自己醫療可以做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
22946.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
22962.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
所以呢這個我們就是錢給下去越做越不好一直給也不是辦法啦請蘇巧慧委員好主席那我同意你剛剛說了人和人之間是互相的啦信任也是看累積還是消磨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
22963.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
22984.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
所以剛剛其實一度大家各個委員在表示自己提案意見的時候也都是據理說明然後我們也請行政單位像陸委會這樣來回答了那剛剛其實有一度有聽到張昭偉有提案說我們是不是因為這個會牽涉到後面的有許多其他相關的案件我們是不是這一案先保留等一下後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
22985.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
23003.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
一併討論完以後 相關的有處理以後我們再回頭來看這一案那高金委員剛剛在提說話的第一句也是說我也認同張昭偉我們覺得事情有一線曙光了對不對那我們也覺得說這樣應該是尊重最多委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
23003.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
23029.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
所以主席您的英明之處就在於有沒有把握這一線曙光的時候所以我是懇請主席能夠再次的考量所以大家互相之間但一定就是因為我們現在立場不一致所以我們才需要討論嘛不然的話剛剛有說你113年114年預算差多少請主委報告一下那如果主委現在報告完只報告數字你說已經增加1億多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
23029.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
23031.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
那我也想要請主委說明一下啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
23059.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
23059.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
那留個紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
23060.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
23089.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
是 跟委員報告有關於等一下 我還沒請你講我本身要先回應那個蘇委員剛剛你只聽到高金委員第一句他後面的結論是三千五百萬 簡略五百萬嘛我知道啊 所以我說主席英明的地方就在把握那一絲曙光啊我沒有說你不能 我是說你有把握我尊重提案的委員那沒關係 你要說明 來 儘快說明好不好是 謝謝主席等一下 等一下 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
23090.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
23112.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
我們先讓委員表達完 你再一併說明那請吳清明委員好 主席剛才你說那個有爭議的是不是先保留然後你說那個簡略的方向因為陸委會的經費也不是很多那我們要求他做得更好那你經費又不給他 那也沒辦法去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
23113.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
23139.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
是不是我們有爭議的先保留我們等一下回頭再來討論那這樣我們速度應該會比較快好不好謝謝好請李博弈議員我相信這個等一下這筆預算在等一下的第一幕第二幕裡面還是會提到相關的問題那我在去年度其實也詢問過陸委會還有海基會相關的問題也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
23140.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
23161.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
這一個要去 國人要赴港澳大陸旅遊的這個APP它要怎麼登錄 登錄的意義目的是什麼如果你當 如果你這個行程結束還沒有回來那你相關的家人可以透過什麼樣的管道機制去處理這需要宣傳啦 這需要宣傳啦 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
23162.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
23191.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
如果這個沒有這一筆費用或者是少列這一些費用的話那未來也就是今年度國人赴港澳大陸相關的這一些機制到底要透過什麼方式讓國人可以理解去那裡怎麼樣才是政府可以維持你的安全或者是你如果失聯了像一貫道的道青如果失聯了後面要怎麼處理這一些還是要需要有一些宣傳的費用來讓國人可以清楚的知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
23193.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
23208.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
好 請行政單位盡量講重點謝謝 請收主委去年以來中國大陸對於我們複合性的施壓也就是軍事威脅 外交打壓 經濟脅迫 社會滲透還有法律戰 一連串的認知作戰跟灰色地帶侵擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
23209.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
23230.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那這些複合性的施壓都我們要一起應處也要跟國人說明我們需要安定民心維護兩岸交流次序我們努力的營造一個和平穩定繁榮的兩岸關係始終是我們政策就需要我們努力的對外說明所以我們也請委員給我們機會有說明的能量非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
23232.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
23249.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
你們覺得你們在穩定民心還有維持兩岸但很多民眾還有很多委員也覺得其實你們是讓兩岸關係越來越嚴重好來接著剛剛我不好意思剛剛我看到黃婕委員有先接著再請張昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
23253.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
23272.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
好謝謝張偉那我是想要請教一下你們這個行政支出媒體政策跟業務宣導費因為大概是快1500萬嘛可是剛剛的如果照提案的委員是直接簡列三分之一其實真的蠻多的你們是不是可以說明一下這1500萬裡面大概包含哪些業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
23273.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
23296.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
那如果直接剪裂三分之一因為其實他們剛剛提到的理由是說是這個APP的做不好然後裡面的登錄率太低那這個業務裡面是只有包含這個登錄率嗎那如果還有其他相關的業務大概是怎麼樣龐雜的一個業務要讓大家知道如果直接剪裂三分之一是不是會影響到你們其他的業務的施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
23297.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
23317.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那我的立場也是覺得既然覺得你們做不好就應該要保留這個經費讓你們可以去做得更好那所以我也是希望等一下這一筆可以先保留然後大家再多做討論如何讓你們做得更好我相信這才是所有大家的委員的用意啦以上謝謝委員你剛好像說明完了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
23324.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
23349.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
那請張昭偉要先來講嗎好 請張昭偉先發言我覺得啦齁這個大家都有道理 大家說的都那個我覺得我們不要卡在這裡啦我覺得齁 就三百萬啦齁 我覺得就這樣處理啦好 那請問原提案委員 本席一定尊重原提案兩位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
23351.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
23373.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
謝謝主席我想大家對這個議題都非常的關心那我們其實最希望就是說我們兩個還是要建立一個穩定而且和平的溝通方式那主委也非常的他也承諾說會盡力來做這一塊那這部分我覺得我們倒是可以像張宏祿 張偉講的一樣我們可以來做3減到300這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
23375.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
23393.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
好 那張志文委員OK嗎好 那我們第15項我們就剪第一案第二案合併對對好那我們第15項就第一案第二案合併 剪裂300萬元接著我們進入第一幕那請 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
23396.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
23411.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
接著我們請邱主委先就黃婕委員的問題回答謝謝我們陸委會有很多的自己的媒體平台包括YouTube, FB, Line, IG以及Trade |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
23411.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
23437.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
這都是由同仁自行經營沒有委外但是我們就利用這些經費把我們的工作做好那另外很多的新聞平台社群平台也是我們要經營的那這些部分呢雖然我們經費很少但是我們都是用同仁自發性的努力把各種的內容加以充實未來我們就會用極少的預算把這個工作做好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
23439.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
23464.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
那接著我們進入第一幕那第一幕的提案委員有需要發言的請發言有沒有好 請徐宇貞委員 然後黃建斌委員謝謝主席 本席在第一幕所提的是第八案是針對一般行政的基本行政工作維持業務費向下的一般事務費那根據這個預算是113年度是編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
23471.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
23486.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
2697萬5000那今年度增幅高達20%來到3252萬7000元因為事實上這已經遠遠超過我們社會普遍可以接受的通膨的警戒線那尤其是有陸委會的解釋是說這筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
23488.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
23516.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
预算大幅的增加是因为中央联合办公大楼的摊提的费用的提高那因为卓院长之前才信誓旦旦的说我们的消费指数稳定维持在2%左右但在这么短的时间内针对这个部分我们的行政院联合办公大楼的维护经费竟然高达20%是不是合理那是不是对得起我们纳税人的辛苦付出所以本席在这边提案针对这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
23517.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
23531.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
這個向下的三千兩百五十二萬七千建議減列五千元我想這是對我們納稅人的一個五百萬元五百萬元我想這是對納稅人負責的一個態度謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
23534.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
23556.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
好 謝謝 請黃建斌委員這本席提的是第六案第六案就是在我們這個辦公廳設的這個年度維護整修這部分那本席這邊是提要減滅五萬塊那經過我們陸委會來說明其實他陸委會還是沒有把你大概你要做的細項講得很清楚所以這部分本席還是維持原本的提議減滅五萬塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
23560.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
23587.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
那请问第三案第四案张志伦委员跟张红露委员有没有要发言没有没有好那我们第一幕对第五案第七案改组决议那我们是不是第一幕一般行政我们就按照提案委员的部分我们让他通过大家有没有意见 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
23589.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
23614.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
好請要請他們說明一下吧好那請主委說我想這一幕還蠻重要的第一個我們是國安單位第二個我們所處的是國家基礎關鍵基礎設施所以我們配合整個大樓營運的配合款還有分擔費用就增加費用在這裡了所以這是第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
23614.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
23638.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
第二項我們隨著電費還有基本工資的上漲也會增加這些預算所以我們增加預算真的是是整體的需要配合也請委員能夠明瞭 謝謝剛剛委員有問你的聯合辦公大樓增加了20%你剛剛有講他確實有要增加增加多少沒有詳細講 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
23641.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
23662.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
跟委員報告,我這裡看到的是555萬就是配合我們大樓營運增加的部分包括三台空調箱、態換、消防緊急廣播系統的更新這個是純粹你們陸委會的設施?沒有,整體大樓然後你們要攤付550萬?對對對,所以還請委員能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
23669.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
23692.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
好 那請剛剛我印象是那就請張志倫委員好 謝謝主席我本來是沒有想要發言的可是我認為就是說陸委會給這個主委的資料不能跟給委員的資料不一致我這邊拿到的資料就是因應這個114年更新老舊空調箱跟下放緊急廣播系統的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
23694.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
23719.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
為了配合此更新案預估需支付450萬可是剛剛主委陸委會主委一開口就變成550幾萬所以我希望的是說不能隨便亂回答每一塊錢的納稅錢都是值得要審慎來考量不能說給委員的資料是450萬然後剛剛突然報就550幾萬增加了100萬我要想請教主委是怎麼回事謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
23721.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
23734.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
謝謝委員剛剛您說那兩家確實450我們其他基本的維運費包括電費的增加北棟管理小組人員的調漲還有相應的勞健保及稅額的經費是編了105萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
23738.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
23745.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
主要我覺得主要是因為現在現在卓議員長有提到說我們雖然物價指數很穩定的維持在2%可是光你們的部分攤提就攤提了555萬2000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
23767.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
23787.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
整棟大樓其他的單位要攤提多少為什麼會有這麼高的一個費用跟委員報告因為我們在北棟它從一樓到十八樓我們的面積是從十五樓到十八樓所以我們分攤相關的是你們有四層樓十五 十六 十七 十八謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
23791.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
23805.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
這個單位真的好像沒有做什麼事但人數還不少面積也滿多的好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 請好 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
23820.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
23832.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
那我們尊重提案委員好不好那提案委員如果沒有要檢列我們就605萬沒有要調整的有要調整的我們這個可以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
23866.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
23867.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
現在才是610萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
23903.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
23911.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
那以這第八案那本席同意減列三百好 第八案減列三百 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
23914.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
23932.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
整目檢列300 整目是大家 大家都整合了是不是好 OK 那我們第一目病案除了第五跟第七改組決議之外那其他是病案總共檢列300萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
23934.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
23958.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
好那我們第一幕OK了接著進入第二幕報告委員我們同仁可能沒辦法負擔這個300我們的配合款就不夠因為我們這棟大樓因為時間也很久所以有在這次的維護費用比較高那我是不是跟委員跟我們同仁討論一下否則我們就沒有配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
23959.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
23988.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
主委我相信你們只要這個想要做都可以主委因為我們是整目整目檢列所以說你就可以去你們要去想辦法好啦主委你是你是主委嗎你去想辦法主委你們總共是四億八千五百七十二萬一千才檢列你三百我們王每位委員都說自己去調整整目如果你這樣的話本席想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
23989.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
24012.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
追加了啦主委你不要生氣我沒有生氣主委是整幕讓你整你整幕有適應的主委講的話真的讓我們覺得真的是太誇張主席我是覺得整幕就減列300但可以我們宣告讓他們自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
24013.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
24037.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
這樣他們好處理剛剛就已經這樣講了整幕的意思不就是這樣嗎就是可以自行調整啊對好不好我們第一幕完成接著我們最後還會再宣告那現在大家沒有疑慮我們就繼續往第二幕那請第二幕的提案委員有需要發言的請麥玉珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
24042.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
24059.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
第二幕謝謝主席我在第二幕第15第15這邊是國內外旅遊上次他們有來溝通這溝通說他們這個出國的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
24063.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
24076.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
成果列為機密啊所以他們拿機密來給我看的時候不是國安的機密也不是兩岸關係談的機密他們的機密是要去參訪的就是他們跟團啊或者他們秘密跟團啊或者他們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
24084.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
24107.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
去參訪一些餐廳啊什麼的這個機密所以我這個部分我就沒辦法接受所以我就是全檢列啦所以等一下看我們主委說還有哪一個叫做機密的就是跟我們兩岸關係的機密有關才是叫機密所以我覺得不相關的不叫機密以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
24108.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
24109.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
還有第18個第18案就是也是在18案這邊就是對我是這個改組結議就是第二幕的這兩案謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
24126.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
24155.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
那請徐議貞委員謝謝主席本席在第二幕提出的是第16案也是剛剛麥議貞委員講的這個國外旅費的部分那因為根據陸委會的說法是這個經費是要派員赴國外考察跟參加國際研討會那預計派12人出訪10天地點涵蓋歐美跟亞洲不過我們必須回到根本來去檢視就是說其實陸委會主要的核心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
24157.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
24173.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
這個職務應該是處理兩岸就處理大陸的事務所以說去歐美這邊參加研討會或國外考察到底對於處理兩岸事務解決目前這個二一螺旋的僵局有什麼幫助所以本案本席提出簡列100萬謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
24178.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
24204.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
好 那接著請黃建民委員然後張志倫委員謝謝主席主席在這一幕裡面本席有提兩案一個是第11案 一個是第14案那11案部分本席是減列250萬那不過跟我們陸委會溝通之後跟我們陸委會提出我們其中兩項的會議參與人員的人數然後邀請的這個與會人員人員的不同說明之後這部分可以改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
24205.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
24231.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
那另外在第14案部分原先是題列要減列300萬那也經過了跟5月的溝通那5月提出113年度我們各自這個研究的這個報告民意的調查那我們認為這個也是需要有需要這些經費所以這邊我們也改成主決議那以上這兩個提案謝謝那請張志榮委員好謝謝主席我們今天現在討論的是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
24234.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
24243.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
第二幕我有提出第九案就有關於陸委會的綜合規劃業務編列了3666萬就要113年的預算增加363萬左右整個綜合規劃業務主要是做研議兩岸政策因應建議而且推動兩岸思維護台海和平跟台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
24260.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
24281.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
整體利益以及辦理兩岸議題研究及探討民意調查等等可是大家都知道現在陸委會編列兩岸情勢研議並沒有提出具體建議似乎沒有任何的成效跟進展而且兩岸關係現在是僵化交流停滯所以還需不需要增加這360幾萬所以我們認為說應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
24286.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
24303.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
要真正提出來兩岸真的如何未來規劃的這個具體的措施那所以我們還有就是說這個目前還有這個預算裡面有提說有些軟硬體資訊設備的汰換編列了120幾萬那與資訊式的規劃設備我們認為有重複為了蹲劫支出所以我們把這個新增的這個300多萬360萬我們減列300萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
24315.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
24329.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
好還有沒有沒有那本席在第二幕也有兩案第13案跟17案13案是委託民調單位辦理兩案議題民意調查等經費編列200萬元那本席發現陸委會即便有 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
24337.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
24355.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
編列這個民意調查的經費但是我不知道那個民調結果怎麼樣但是感覺陸委會的很多作為跟60%以上的民意好像有一點相左所以本席本來簡列30萬那今天我想說簡列100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
24358.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
24384.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
然後再來第17案第17案也是國外差旅費那本席覺得很納悶陸委會從109年開始公務出國報告列為密等而且沒有解密的期限那為什麼以前的不用那你們現在要然後兩岸關係又越來越緊張本席要特別講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
24386.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
24412.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
不是說錢給你多然後就認為你可以事情做得好其實很多時候不是有錢的人他才能夠把事情做好甚至選舉也是不是錢花的多就一定拿比較高票所以很多事情不是錢多就做得好而是看你長期以來你的作為所以針對這個第17案本席看到這個計劃說明和113年度相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
24415.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
24443.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
而且内容过于简略出国地点仅列欧美及亚太地区范围过广出国具体效益不明未说明其增加预算之必要性避免预算腐烂编列那我们简略预算100万元好那请问还有没有委员有要说明的或是提问的没有那我们请行政单位回复 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
24443.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
24460.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
好 謝謝主席 各位委員感謝就這一幕裡頭都是我們中規處的業務我們中規處最主要的業務就是研判兩岸還有整體的形式那提供這些具體的建議跟應處的作為給我們各相關部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
24461.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
24482.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
可以說是入委會的整個大腦至關重要同時也跟委員報告我們入委會一年有接待外國的訪團、智庫團、各界人士從國外來有將近140團他們往往會需要入委會去參加國際會議或是邀訪我們去參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
24485.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
24503.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
那我想國際社會都非常關注台海情勢那我們跟理念相近國家跟民主同盟的國家呢一起來維護台海的和平穩定至關重要這往往都需要我們去說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
24504.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
24528.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
也請委員能夠重視這方面那另外我們的民調許多都是長期性的我們從90年代的民調就沒有斷過所以我們也希望委員能夠給我們這些長期在做的民調這個國內外相關的各界都非常關注陸委會的民調也希望能夠支持剛剛有提到說陸委會的這個相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
24531.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
24547.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
出國報告其實我們同仁出國都寫得非常充足那會列為逆見的原因是因為有我人士希望不要曝光那如果各位委員基於問政的需要我們也會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
24548.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
24568.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
這個保密的規範下我們主動希望跟委員說明我們都願意來跟滿足大家問政資的需要那總之我們中規處的相關的預算剛剛這個我們主席也提到我們的相關設備比如說我們為了讓我們國內的學子 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
24571.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
24595.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
加強他們對中國大陸跟兩岸關係的研究我們在18樓的資源中心也重新的強化這方面的設備能夠加惠我們的學子所以我們也預期在中規處這些預算真的很少然後又要刪的話我想對於我們對我們國家是非常很大的損失以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
24596.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
24611.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
好 這個主委你剛剛說要和平穩定我發現每年每年經費給你你就是越來越不和平越來越不穩定所以這一個問題我們真的很難接受說你 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
24612.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
24632.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
等於經費支持你經費支持你但是做出來的都不是大家的期望那再來就是民調既然是長期也可能沒有其必要因為你長期做了你只有讓這個情況越來越糟所以那接下來那個高金委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
24635.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
24656.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
主委我發現你這裡不講話還好你一講話會引起大家非常多的我非常認真的聆聽啊陸委會的工作是什麼是兩岸關係嘛對不對那你剛剛所講的東西好像就是剛剛昭偉也講了兩岸和平然後不要再讓這個惡意的螺旋繼續往下這是你最主要的工作啊對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
24657.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
24679.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
那所以這樣子看起來 你的綜合規劃業務編的是3066萬5000塊那這樣看到其他簡列的委員們 當然在各個不同的項目裡面都有不同的有是這個外交的 有些是國外旅費的那我可以加起來的話 大概是刪了你1100萬左右啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
24681.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
24687.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
那我們是不是要為了節省時間大家討論一下在他這一幕裡面大家要算多少好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
24707.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
24708.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
國際社會是外交啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
24735.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
24755.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
那你先除外交部 那除外交部編列一次再給你除外交部編列要見面嗎對 那個除外交部那你自己也要去講話你自己要講話 你自己要來接受吧那你自己也要去講話 你自己要來接受吧那你自己也要去講話 你自己要來接受吧那你自己也要去講話 你自己要來接受吧那你自己也要去講話 你自己要來接受吧那你自己也要去講話 你自己要來接受吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
24757.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
24759.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
24775.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
24786.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳主要是為了提供餐廳的餐廳服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
24795.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
24821.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
因為現在整個政府的局面還是不交流,是平反交流嘛但我沒有說到以前這樣變成這樣但是你現在如果個人照顧他,說真的,你都是不是因為我們這邊是有黑衣服嘛,所以不完整對,我沒有在指定他,因為如果有問題是一定要偵查你,反正你把他推到我們國安部的話,那會怎麼樣?國安部不是什麼問題,問題在於你怎麼跟他互打架,有點不穩 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
24822.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
24824.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
對 然後我們對 國安國安國安國安國安 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
24852.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
24857.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
我吃三餐的喔 剛好大家很高興都不用走 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
24874.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
24878.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
她說山啦 她說山都沒有錢 我就走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
24900.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
24905.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
好啦好啦 國際都支持你們 台灣自己的人都不要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
24911.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
24936.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
很生氣的 八塊錢我沒人吃 我沒人來外面吃一支我先來 我先來 我先來我們溝通就講溝通就講我知道 我知道對我好看你看喔 福建跟廣東一年幾年啊陸委會 永遠的等於一年幾年而已啊我們是要怎麼打招呼啊是要怎麼打招呼啊是要怎麼打招呼啊是要怎麼打招呼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
24949.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
24961.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
來來 除了改組決議的本席兩岸各100然後麥毓貞委員285堅持他有減 他有少掉8000元所以簡列285然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
24967.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
24984.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
好啦那再來就是張志倫委員300張志倫委員300那所以就是再來是徐以貞委員100那等於就是照這樣好不好對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
24995.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
25007.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
那我們第二幕我們請總共八八五沒錯我剛剛算是八八五好可以解釋來請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
25009.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
25034.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
不好意思我是主席主任因為剛剛委員講的那些檢列項目其中有一項第14項第15項第16項都是對我們的國外旅費那這個預算總共才編列285千元可是按照委員加起來我要剪掉485根本沒辦法有經費去檢列那包含14 15 16 17這些加起來就一共是785萬8千元我們預算剛剛還沒宣告我們是整目 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
25038.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
25049.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
並按總共檢列885我的意思是說您885裡面有785都在國外旅費這個我預算才編列285的項目啦不好意思以上說明連行政人員都很多聲音都說自行調整啊這一幕好不好885你們自行調整好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
25066.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
25092.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
跟委員報告我從你剛剛不是溝通了嗎我剛剛是問過每位委員的我們中規處從來沒有被刪過那麼多件事你一直要跟我說從來沒有台灣我也一直講兩岸的關係也從來沒有像這樣那然後呢所以從來沒有所以我們所有我們立法院你們從來沒有怎麼樣我們立法院就不能怎麼樣嗎你的意思是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
25098.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
25123.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
他意思沒有這樣啦那現在主委你還要發言什麼 給你說完我們當然會遵截預算各位認為我們腐爛的我們一定會改進不過這些必要的費用也請委員能夠考慮我們兩岸的處境這些情勢的研議非常重要跟溝通交流也很重要那當然我們尊重委員的決議 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
25125.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
25141.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
好那我們就第二幕我們就併案885好不好因為剛剛已經溝通一段時間而且最後我也一一詢問各位委員了那我們就整幕併案885萬元好就這樣接著我們請第三幕我們進入第三幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
25153.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
25163.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
我們現在進入第三幕請第三幕有這個提案的委員請表達我跟你講那個召委第二幕如果是要刪這麼多的話還是我們把它保留一下金額都這樣要保留一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
25184.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
25187.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
有要保留嗎沒有啊我們希望就這樣過吧那還是我們要詢問大家意見那要表決嗎要表決嗎所以我在問大家意見嘛這邊要保留那請問這一排的我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
25214.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
25229.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
對啊 主委都說尊重意見了好 所以這邊還是決議要通過嘛好 那現在這樣啦他們是說就照我們這樣通過嘛那你們說要保留 那難道要需要那個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
25232.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
25248.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
報告委員刪除八百多萬真的是不可承受之重那還是要跟委員報告這些都是必要的支出那麼對兩岸關係都是刪除真的無法運作還請委員能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
25263.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
25285.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
主席 各位委員我是中俄規劃處的處長魯仲尼我想再跟委員這邊再請命一下我們中規處是負責的主要又是情勢的研判包括大陸內部的情勢的變化這些我們對於大陸的情勢變化的感知對於我們的政府做一個政策判斷是非常的重要的或許我們平常努力委員看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
25285.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
25293.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
但是呢如果我們沒有辦法給高層好的政策的建議跟情勢的研判的話我想他的後果會是嚴重的那我們除了我們每年生產超過400篇的報告除了提供高層參考之外我們也給所有的外管的外交部的同仁來做參考那我們這些報告的產出呢都是我們同仁一字一字寫出來的但是我們同時也參考了國內外的智庫跟學者他們的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
25313.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
25336.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
那這些收集各界的意見跟交流需要經費來支持我們包括到國外去像我們每年會在華府舉辦一場研討會像我們今年也對美國的中華智庫也做了參訪收集的這些資料都會作為我們的情勢研判跟政策建議的一個素材所以這部分我真的是非常建議委員給我們這樣的一個支持讓我們繼續把這個工作來做好以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
25341.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
25363.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
處長您剛提到說這400多篇報告是給高層做一個研判的一個依據嗎還有所有的外交部的外管跟那現在你們提供的資料讓高層研判到現在兩岸的關係這麼緊張兩岸的關係這麼的不好而且這個敵意螺旋越來越高那所以你這樣的報告研究有什麼重要性有什麼必要性嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
25363.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
25383.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
我們呈現的是一個客觀事實的變化這些資料是需要被高層了解的但是如果我們沒有經費我們沒有辦法去收集各界的資訊凡事有因果對不對你呈現的是果嘛那那個因你們一直沒有去做調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
25384.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
25401.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
兩岸關係就像人際關係剛剛蘇巧惠委員說的我也很認同兩岸關係就像人際關係大家互相尊重還有人際關係我想各位都比我厲害你就應該知道怎麼樣讓兩岸你如果真心想要和平而不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
25403.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
25423.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
不斷的在這個讓兩岸的惡意螺旋上升然後還變成好像這個一些政治上的一些操作所以我們大家都希望兩岸和平可是我們看到多年下來沒有越來越和平啊也沒有越來交流越來越多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
25424.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
25444.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
那陸委會剛剛本席對剛剛那一位魯處長對處長講我們現在接下來所有行政單位麻煩在說明的時候你告訴我們你做了什麼事沒有錯但是我們大家要看的是是結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
25445.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
25473.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
你的结果不是大家期望的而且越来越恶化就像这个医院一直砸钱结果病人越来越恶化你知道从普通病房到家务病房两岸关系就是这样都要进入安民病房了你怎么办所以我们所有委员其实我想民进党的几位委员也知道我们从内政委员会我们审预算到现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
25475.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
25502.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
難得就是對我們陸委會大家就是覺得兩岸的關係不可以一直持續這樣所以陸委會的作為也需要改變那當然這個預算一直支持支持下去你們就做更多更多讓兩岸更緊繃的事我們實在看不下去包圍沒有更緊繃啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
25508.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
25520.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
主席我會不會說一下我覺得啦 主委三這麼多 恐怕你們你們到底三多少你們可以承受的範圍你也要讓我們委員知道委員對那個出國的這個檢列285萬這方面似乎有比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
25533.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
25556.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
多的這個主張那如果說相對於其他非常核心的業務我們希望委員還是持續能夠支持我們做好兩岸關係的情勢延續那如果可以這樣的話我們有關於這些檢列國外旅費的部分我們尊重委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
25560.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
25574.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
減大概285萬8千不是啦這樣子啦因為我們剛剛已經花時間而且我也問過這個提案委員不然我們這樣885萬齁准許你整個在第15項裡面你10億裡面你整個去調整好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
25583.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
25595.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
對啊 不是啊沒有 現在是這個綜合規劃業務三千多萬裡面啦主席 妳不能這樣 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我主席 她一直喊我 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
25597.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
25623.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
主席剛剛我說兩岸關係就要人際關係嘛那我們現在在議場上面我們現在在討論嘛那大家也互相釋出善意那主席剛剛我是說如果您可以把握那一瞬間也許我們就可以和緩嘛這就是希望的契機不過至今我們剛剛所有表達的意見我們這一排這個桌子表達的意見似乎到現在為止已經開會一個小時了好像都還沒有被採納的部分那我是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
25624.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
25637.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
覺得說建議一下主席那現在剛剛有這樣子的一個爭端的885裡面剛剛有看到至少有一個是285的旅費有重複計算了一次嘛雖然您說這個就是把數字加上去用整目來調弄那我們是不是就利用這個契機至少把這個285先抽出來那是不是也是一個大家緩和一點可以再進一步討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
25647.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
25654.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
人際關係嘛總是要可以柳暗花明又一春嘛主席不是老是信奉這樣子的一個好的循環嘛主席我們建議一下啦885裡面從這個285重複計算的部分我們先討論一下要不要把它剔除掉好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
25663.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
25679.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
市委員說的我也認同但是我更認同的是我尊重每一位提案提案不是不是我現在是針對提案不不不我剛剛講提案委員有您的提案的我一定尊重好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
25679.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
25700.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
其實提案委員會接受委員會大家一起討論嘛對不對我們是內政委員會啊剛剛有討論其實這是經過討論討論之後還是最後的決議那很多委員也表達意見了嘛好啦那這樣好了啦這樣子好了不然我們針對這一個部分我們就表決一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
25702.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
25727.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
要不要就这样了因为既然这样因为我刚刚已经讨论了那可是讨论了大家也也对对对意见不同那我们就这一个部分我们是不是我们是不是可以就就把它处理好不好然后如果你要保留那我们就先表决一下要保留还是要处理然后接着再看处理的结果这样好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
25731.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
25738.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
主席主席我覺得你休息兩分鐘啊大家說一下休息兩分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
25739.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
25766.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
那其他委員 來 請高新委員我當然希望大家和諧了你看現在我們大概只有三幕四幕那所以其實也沒有那麼多幕所以我的建議是你們比去年多了三百六十九三百多萬那你三百多萬在現在兩岸的關係一直在持續往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
25767.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
25790.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
往下惡意的循環當中當然兩岸關係如果好給你們增加多少預算我們都樂觀啟程你想一個入客要不要來台灣其實呢就已經影響了我們基層老百姓所以你們的工作其實是應該要替基層老百姓跟你們的上層說政策然後苦民所苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
25791.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
25810.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
光是一個旅遊業就影響到夜市就影響到問獎就影響到飯店業就影響到非常多的小吃業這影響之大我們在質詢的時候都已經質詢了非常多的數據我現在就不要再一一的論述了 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
25810.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
25838.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
所以你們已經比去年還增加了預算可是我們看兩岸關係是一直惡意在繼續往下沉這很顯然你們並沒有真正做到陸委會應該要做的功能縱使最後的決策權不是在你但是你們也應該要把基層老百姓的苦讓最上層的了解你怎麼會跟著跟著政府這樣一起來做這種有時候在媒體上聽你講話我們都嚇死了你知道嗎都聽你 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
25839.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
25867.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
捏了一把冷汗如果一直在不斷的在惡意的講來講去然後都不示出善意感染之地出去總是要嘛對不對為了我們2300萬的人民感染之地出去會怎麼樣呢那兩岸的和平是最重要啊老百姓的是最重要啊所以我認為在這邊也許你認為800萬是很多但是我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
25868.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
25882.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
提議建議大家他已經比去年增加了300多萬了所以大家考慮一下我們到底要怎麼樣的檢列如果大家還要再繼續在這邊一直拖時間的話我想大家就可能現在已經是3點41分了我們還有還機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
25886.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
25903.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
預算要審還有行政院的預算要審好不好是不是大家就不要在這邊這個主委就不要講太多話了其實該講的話在質詢的都已經講完了主席我們可不可以去年的規模嗎剛剛已經接受了這個大家的那個那就這樣子吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
25908.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
25928.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
是去年的規模嗎不是 去年的規模然後去年整個兩岸關係更惡化嘛那這樣子好了遞出感染值本席優先遞好不好我們蘇巧惠委員講你承諾一下現在大家都在攝影機也在你承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
25930.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
25957.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
我們等一下如果大家你承諾的好我們再討論一下你承諾114年我們兩岸關係你怎麼樣努力好不好來我是說你陸委會你過去一直沒有做的或者是一直沒有辦法跟兩岸釋出善意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
25958.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
25980.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
我等一下那個高級委員說不要浪費太多時間那你要不要儘快你看看你講的我再來問一下其他的委員好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
25981.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
26005.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
謝謝委員各方面的指導那我們希望我們陸委會當然會努力堆疊善意讓兩岸關係能夠善意循環推動兩岸關係的和平繁榮這個都是我們的職責所在剛剛很多委員也有提到追求對等尊嚴健康有序的兩岸關係我們一定全力以赴謝謝來 請羅志強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
26012.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
26037.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
剛剛其實底下委員就講你這承諾也是空口白話我覺得還是一個最根本的問題今天我要特別講就是我們沈伯陽委員的名言兩岸交流所有兩岸交流都是統戰我剛剛聽到我們在座的委員也在講說習近平如何習近平想交流兩岸交流是統戰你陸委會第一個我們預算幫你節省一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
26038.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
26057.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
兩岸交流那麼多幹嘛反正你也做到兩岸不交流啊所以我還是回到一個最根本的問題就是說今天我沒有怪我們今天主委因為上位政策就不相同嘛這個國民黨執政跟民進黨執政上位政策不相同嘛國民黨執政上位政策兩岸就是要交流嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
26058.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
26081.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
那很多的不管是說23項協議千萬的人那個來台觀光然後往來的專業人士的互訪商務人士的交流那都是蓬勃豐盛的但是今天幾乎全部都急凍了啊凍在棺材裡面全部都死光光了那我就不知道我們到底為什麼今天這些預算的目的是什麼我找不到預算的目的這是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
26082.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
26099.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
你跟我講什麼國家安全的問題要做什麼一些安全的演繹那我就說嘛 你直接請國安會編預算國安會編預算 國安會覺得有這個需求那很好啊 就讓國安會預算去過嘛可是陸委會今天交流協商就是陸委會的本質 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
26100.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
26122.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
結果到最後你現在跟我講說你交易箱做不到你只好去分心盤勿來去接管國安會的業務這是為什麼今天我們在這邊說預算省因為民進黨一直告訴我們我也很認同民進黨的概念國家財政很困難啦所以我們一定要尊潔嘛錢就用在刀口上假設有一天真如主委你講的你說民進黨突然腦筋一轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
26125.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
26153.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
燈光一亮 我決定了我覺得要跟國民黨政府時代一樣我們要努力的拓展兩岸的交流然後讓這個兩岸交流這個所謂的那個大繁榮時代重新來的時候你陸委會要多少運算還成問題嗎所以今天你的困境不是你今天我們的邱主委你的困境今天的困境是來自於說上位政策都不相同我們在這邊只能去努力幫人民尊潔嘛所以這才是問題之所在啦以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
26177.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
26186.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
雖然主委講的我們也不是覺得很滿意但是羅志強委員講了一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
26188.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
26201.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
對啦 可能現在的執政這個更高層他們要求你們的方向可能你們也很為難所以我們站在這樣的立場是不是本來885改成600好不好可以嗎 併案好啦 我們第二幕第二幕全部併案減列600萬元600萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
26216.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
26223.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
那我們盡快進入第三幕請第三幕提案的委員有沒有要表達的 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
26228.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
26254.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
好請黃建斌委員謝謝主席主席在第三幕我們提的是第24項就是針對這個經濟業務下的這個預算本息是提凍結20%因為其實我們今年大陸也對台灣這個34項農產品的這個取消這個免徵進口關稅的這個政策那這個部分其實以台東來講對台東的世家農造成非常非常大的這個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
26256.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
26268.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
那我們現在看到的就是陸會只有除了呼籲以外並沒有看到其他具體的補救這個行為那這邊還是需要我們台中縣的首長親自帶隊去洽談那 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
26271.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
26288.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
這個對於我們台東的基礎農業特別是私家農業這方面影響非常大而且你看到在這件事情上陸委會幾乎工人都喪失那本行所決定還是要凍結20%那待我們陸委會提出專案報告經過同意之後再來凍結那以上好請張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
26299.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
26315.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
好謝謝謝謝趙偉謝謝主席我提出的第19案有關於這個陸委會的第三目經濟業務他編列了2563萬元那在113年還增加了110萬元左右主要執行內容是兩岸經貿政策跟互動議題之研擬跟推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
26316.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
26342.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
可是大家現在知道陸委會對兩岸經貿跟互動沒有成效以至於現在台灣農產品外銷大陸還有很多的項目是受限的經濟方面被受這個壓制所以陸委會應調整情資研判之比例並加強交流跟溝通所以離提案簡略300萬元那剛建兵委員也特別提到這個世嘉跟石斑魚文旦的這些輸入的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
26344.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
26348.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
這個好像還是沒有一個明確的一個解方那希望陸委會這邊再加油謝謝好還有沒有好那本席這裡在第三幕有23案跟26案那這個第23案的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
26367.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
26392.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
114年度到較上年度入委會增列了617,000元入委會歷年都有編列預算進行相關的研究但是對於中國大陸片面採取經濟脅迫行為例如取消ECFA部分、早收產品關稅優惠宣布停止台灣34項農產品免關稅等未能提前預警 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
26392.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
26410.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
或有效防范造成臺灣民生社會以及相關業者經濟損失事發後工商業建議政府採取有效措施循適當的管道持續與大陸溝通並且希望能夠及早進行磋商化解雙方的歧見 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
26411.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
26433.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
這是民間大家希望的但是我們陸委會除了發文說遭突襲而且表達抗議譴責之外沒有看到實質的作為顯見這個項目的成果對政策參考性的成效尚待改進所以沒有增加經費的必要所以本席針對這一項的預算減列200萬元並且凍結10% |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
26441.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
26468.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
帶大陸委員會就如何加強委辦項目之收整延期精確性及成效向立法院內政委員會提出專案報告並且經過同意後使得動之這是第23案第26案也是國外旅費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
26471.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
26495.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
這個增幅還有計劃的內容欠缺必要性還有妥適性那當然資訊公開也應該有改進之處所以簡列這個第26案這邊簡列50萬元好其他有沒有委員有要表達的我們第三幕羅志強委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
26505.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
26524.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
我提的是20案實際上憲法第10條規定人民有居住遷徙自由那大法官會議解釋558號也說出憲法規定的人民的自由設定住所遷徙旅行是包括入出國境之權益但是我們疫情已經結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
26525.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
26541.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
實際上陸委會還是主張要所謂的妨礙人民遷徙自由禁止組團赴中國大陸觀光的禁團當然你們理由很多啊說因為對方如何如何可是我要講我們是憲政民主的國家我們中華民國憲法規定人民就是有遷徙自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
26542.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
26566.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
那這樣的一個一來對兩岸交流是反向而行的做法二來也是違反我們憲法的人民遷徙自由的問題像這就是我要舉例說陸委會在這段時間一直出現一個跟陸委會原初定旨不一樣的一些做法甚至不但說有這樣一個禁止對立法院通過決議要求立即解除禁止人民組團 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
26566.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
26593.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
附大陸觀光之限制 優先開放大陸觀光 可循小山通附金馬棚等山梨島旅遊觀光我們在立法院秉持憲法做了一些 開了一些決議 其實讓陸委會置之不理所以因此在這部分的話 我的提案是先凍結30%的預算那等陸委會在兩個月內向立法院報告之後 專案報告之後再同意後再凍結 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
26596.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
26623.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
如果沒有其他委員有要發言我們請行政單位回覆好 謝謝委員指教不好意思 麥委員是不是有沒有 沒有好 謝謝委員指教有關於針對本會的經濟業務的部分跟委員報告三個重點我們這些預算大部分都花在主要的項目比如說剛剛委員講到經濟脅迫 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
26625.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
26648.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
那對於我們的產業農民的權益帶來影響在超支在我的部分我們全力來減少我們的廠商跟農民的這個減損那在這個輔導台商的部分也是我們重點這幾年中國大陸的經濟非常不好我們台商遇到空前的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
26649.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
26675.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
以及經營的困境所以我們跟相關的機構積極在協助我們台商一方面在當地能夠轉型升級二方面也在協助他們全球佈局或者是回台投資那另外部分剛剛所提到的這個有關於觀光客來台的部分我們也在積極希望入客早點來台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
26677.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
26700.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
我們的政策就是呼籲入客要來台就以目前的人流的部分1到10月我們國人負入已經達到230萬人次但是中國大陸的來台灣只有32萬其中10萬還是從境外來的所以中國大陸本質上還沒有開放入客來台那我們除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
26701.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
26717.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
歡迎入客來台之外我們也高度重視我們國人附入的安全所以有關於兩岸的觀光包括旅遊品質包括安全包括兩岸旅遊的穩定性我們都希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
26718.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
26743.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
透過兩岸觀光小兩會來趕快溝通協商 讓政策能夠加以落實剛剛委員也提到 我們在積極地來完成有關於立法院所做的決議在維護我方安全 增進兩岸和平穩定發展解除有關赴陸觀光的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
26743.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
26758.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
那我們全力在這個決議裡面在維護國人安全這方面我們認為是兩岸交流的重要前提我們也呼籲陸方應該跟我們相向而行讓早日兩岸的觀光能夠落實謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
26763.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
26783.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
報告召委我好像又看到他在那個媒體上宣傳一樣的聲音真的好像有點像鸚鵡我跟大家報告一下他們比去年預算增加了100多萬那在現在我剛剛一直在講兩岸的因為這個惡意螺旋一直不斷的增高 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
26784.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
26795.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
然後兩岸人民經濟也受損非常嚴重那一百多萬再加上我覺得這個加上那個那個志倫的提案志倫你的提案是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
26796.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
26813.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
三百嘛對不對那所以我覺得就是整個減劣三百萬好不好然後再凍結百分之十然後希望你們來做專案報告怎麼樣把兩岸經濟和平給他再做好好嗎以上我的建議謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
26815.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
26827.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
高金委員的建議是大家也有共識的有沒有有不同意見的如果沒有我們第三幕改組決議的我們也講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
26830.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
26854.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
第21案 第25案 第28案改組決議其他併案檢列300萬元然後凍結10%好 然後要專案報告經同意後 使得凍之好 那我們第三幕就到這邊接著我們進行第四幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
26857.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
26882.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
好第四幕的案子很多我們讓委員們可以這個充分發言好請麥玉珍委員謝謝主席第四幕這邊的話第32案1330多萬我減列了1000萬但是我們主委有來溝通所以這個部分我改組結議還有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
26887.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
26891.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
還有在第40目這邊40岸這邊的話澎湖海魚這邊也是1000多萬這邊的話我是本來是動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
26902.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
26922.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
100%所以主委有來跟我們說明我就動了20%所以希望在大金滿88號這個案子他們就是處理不是很好對我們的漁民保護還有聯絡方式不足所以這個部分我動20%還有第50第50案的話我也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
26930.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
26933.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
動100%現在改為動20%就是兩岸的業務現在就是停地的狀態剛才很多委員都講了就是這樣子的一個進行很沒有進步我們不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
26947.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
26952.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
要減他們的錢是希望說我們做不好要有一個策略做更好不是說因為錢多就會做好那麼單年也是錢都歷年增加但是呢我們就覺得越來越做得不好也沒有說有具體的作為承諾也要有具體的作為還有第52案的話是2億多2億多這邊是海基會 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
26977.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
26990.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
書面驗證案件就是去年就是減少3300件但是呢今年的預算呢還增加了6000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
26993.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
26999.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
所以我覺得這個的話就是顯示時機的作業量有差異這樣的話還要增加錢所以這個部分我是全部兩億五千多萬全部減劣 以上報告 謝謝請羅志強委員 等一下請張志倫委員還有徐宇貞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
27023.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
27051.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
我的有三十四案跟五十三案那我先講三十四案那事實上這個陸委會在第四幕法政業務下有兩岸法政交流政策規劃研擬跟推動預算一千三百三十九萬一千元我先講到底現在還剩下兩岸多少法政交流保持一個非常大的問號那另外我們來看數據事實上我一直在強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
27052.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
27072.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
入委會其實就是一個促進兩岸交流的單位但是我們來看根據移民署的資料疫情之前的2019年大陸人士來台專業交流商務交流跟健檢醫美入境人數分是9萬10.2萬跟3.6萬先把最後一個健檢醫美扣掉不算就看專業交流跟商務交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
27073.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
27094.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
那2023年起疫情管制皆解除但是2023年全年交流的人次在所謂的專業交流部分只有5600人次在疫情前只有6%商務交流2.9萬人次也只有恢復疫情前的28.5所以我就要特別講為什麼今天我們在這邊不是我們刁難陸委會真的不是我們刁難陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
27098.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
27124.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
陸委會在所有的各項的所謂的交流成績上全面倒退的同時那這個剛好又迎合了今天民進黨上位政策就是兩岸就不要交流嘛兩岸基本上就對立敵視嘛所以他就會讓陸委會進入到另一個新的就像剛剛主委一直講說以前沒有發生過這樣的一個預算刪減因為以前沒有像現在這樣子像主席講的啊以前兩岸也沒有關係遭到這種程度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
27125.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
27151.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
那麼如果今天入委會你的功能是這個樣子然後呢你的民進黨的中央政府上位政策也是這個樣子那我們不怪你但是為了要讓我們的預算能夠真正名符其實所用今天就是我們審查預算一個重點但是我坦白講我對入委會預算還算是客氣的我主要是採動結案大家尊重我們內政委員會的委員是要覺得要怎麼去尊敬 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
27152.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
27173.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
可是有一個預算 抱歉我就收不了了沒辦法就是我的53案海基會的捐助海基會捐助我說真的雖然海基會找出一大堆理由跟藉口不知道秘書長在不在我不知道找出一大堆藉口跟理由但這個鐵針針的事實就是別的海基會他就沒有要 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
27180.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
27191.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
他一年增加40%的捐助欸你講再多理由藉口我只看到海基會在新的秘書長跟董事長上來的無能嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
27192.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
27214.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
別人沒有要這麼多捐助民進黨已經跟你們海基會講政府財政困難要尊潔要尊潔要尊潔結果呢你可以多40%好啦我剛剛說過兩岸如果今天交流是非常順暢然後往來密切你真的跟我講有40%業務擴張那我們還可以還可以來好好的來去怎麼樣去協助你們把預算編列齊全 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
27222.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
27236.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
是嗎 我跟大家說齁 來在兩岸 就是正常交流時 大約國民黨執政的時候兩岸兩會官方共舉行過15次會議簽署23項協議兩項共事71城市直航千萬路客來台海基會協商交流服務的業務量堅遠勝於今日 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
27246.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
27260.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
遠遠勝過今日的時候人家預算都沒要你那麼多你對海基會底氣是什麼竟然可以一口氣要增加四成我真是佩服海基會的勇氣啦我真的佩服啦那第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
27262.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
27283.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
這四成我覺得你就不要了吧你們怎麼會有點要這四成呢你以為四成不要就夠嗎現在兩岸倒退到底比陳水扁時代都不如所以我的提案很簡單我的提案是刪除1億2657萬為什麼 我的基準是回到扁政府時代我以扁政府時代的交流能量來去衡量你今天海基會的功能啊我沒有砍成零喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
27284.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
27306.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
但是你不要跟我講說你今天到吹成這個樣子你還要政府還那麼多納稅錢更重要一件事我也要這邊譴責我們的海基會秘書長羅文嘉過去海基會絕對是用非常事務性的人才因為他需要很柔軟的身段他要非常穩健的不做政治性的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
27307.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
27333.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
我們的海基會秘書長是嗎今天這個我們在兩岸辦論壇的時候他還可以講說蔣萬安去救人我真的是你不講話都沒人知道你是啞巴你一出口就是跟大家講說海基會廢物我辦不到蔣萬安你來做這不是政治性發言什麼是政治性發言所以今天在這邊本席是強烈主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
27335.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
27354.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
今天就大砍海基會預算你真的好好把兩岸交流做好海基會的首長今天本分盡好不要胡說八道做政治性發言來年我們再考慮說海基會看你的業務狀況來著雨怎麼樣去增加你的預算不然你就先回到扁政府實在預算規模以上 謝謝好 那徐宇珍委員然後接著張志倫那張志倫委員接著徐宇珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
27362.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
27388.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
好謝謝主席主委剛很多委員的發言我都非常的認同不過我要這邊講的法證因為我要提到的就是說現在政府有提供一個叫做國人赴陸港澳登錄系統這也是我之前在質詢中特別有提到的這個國人陸港澳登錄系統的登錄人次第一個非常的少一年那時候元旦演說的時候賴清德總統特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
27391.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
27400.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
這個國人富大陸大陸的這個人次大概230多萬人可是我們看到這個國人富大陸登陸系統的人數好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
27401.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
27426.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
才不到5萬人左右所以第一個登錄的點非常的低那第二個這個系統當時我也問主委說這個系統是為了去進行緊急處理人數那我也跟主委特別報告說這個過去這個系統到現在服務過幾個緊急處理人數當時主委沒有辦法回答出來我也跟主委報告答案是0一個人都沒有服務到一個人都沒有服務到為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
27427.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
27450.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
因為過去大家都習慣打的是海基會的救助電話所以當然這個法政業務我相信等一下會整幕一起刪除那基本上刪除的金融會是非常的可怕那我只要也要提出這一個這個登錄系統其實事實上是沒有功效的特別要講這個登錄系統沒有功效第一個登錄的人不到百分之好像才百分之五不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
27451.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
27464.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
第二個完全這幾年幾級處理人數的人數都是零這非常的扯第二個就是說剛剛提到了陸委會補助海基會的處理兩岸仲介事務的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
27466.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
27484.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
從這個113年的1億8增加到2億5增加了7500多萬增加了40%當然我們看到這個賴清德總統在元旦演說回答問題的時候他也特別針對這個上海這個城市交流以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
27485.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
27505.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
上海部分如果要開放陸客來台的時候結果我們這個賴清哲總統居然說那就請這個台旅會跟海旅會兩方來去做這個座談來去做談判好像忘記陸委會跟海基會在哪裡了所以這樣子的發言我也想要請這個這個主委等一下是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
27506.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
27518.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
分享一下因為過去兩岸的交流都是海基會去處理的那些海基會的功能不彰還要增加40%陸委會的捐贈的金額我也是非常不認同所以我等一下也會支持我們其他委員的提議以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
27520.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
27533.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
好 請徐議貞委員謝謝主席本席在第四幕這邊是提出44案 45案跟54案第44案是針對這個兩岸法政交流政策規劃跟研擬推動分支計劃下編列的通訊費那這個項目編列6163,000較113年增加104萬增幅高達17.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
27545.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
27564.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
那有詢問過陸委會陸委會表示說這筆費用是用在簡訊發送而且政策規定每四個月才會對同一個民眾發送一次那我想請教一下因為其中這個部分大概就是赴港澳急難救助關懷簡訊費用是 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
27566.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
27592.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
編列了653萬653萬不過我算了一下就是653萬如果以現在大宗簡訊的話我們平均一通一塊來說大概可以發放653萬通的簡訊可是我們去年附入的人數也才205萬那用四個月才能發放一次所以這中間事實上我就覺得事實上也多了大概450萬我不曉得是用在什麼地方所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
27593.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
27619.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
應該是要好好的尊爵使用現在政府竟然喊沒錢經費不夠那光這個部分我就覺得增加了400多萬的通訊的費用那我不曉得這個費用是在是出現在哪裡這是第四次案那第四所案就是也是這個剛剛都有提到國外旅費的部分我們是認為陸委會應該著重於兩岸的事務而不是常常去歐美去什麼地方去取經我覺得那個應該要回歸本職的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
27621.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
27641.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
那第54案就是剛剛這個羅產委員有特別提到就是針對海基會的這個捐助因為其實我想隨著現在民進黨執政以來兩岸的關係持續的惡化所以目前看起來其實海基會已經沒有什麼功能尤其是剛剛我想大家也還記憶猶新就是針對雙城的 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
27643.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
27662.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
論壇的時候我們對針對一貫道的道青還在大陸那我們的秘書長也特別希望說是台北市政府是不是蔣萬安市長能夠去幫忙溝通那如果這樣的話那這筆經費是不是應該撥給台北市政府請他們去幫忙溝通所以現在從原來的一千一億 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
27665.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
27690.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
看一下以這個項目的部分我們是認為今年要增加到這麼高的一筆預算我們認為以目前的這個海基會的功能看來並沒有這樣的一個實質上的一個需要所以本席在這個地方我覺得這個巨額預算的增加是不是可以帶來相對的效益那以目前的兩岸的情勢看起來海基會所能夠達成的實質成果其實極其有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
27691.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
27716.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
而且每次海基會所傳遞的一些訊息其實都是被已讀不回所以基於以上的理由本席提案簡列海基會的預算7000萬元也希望能夠讓這筆資源能夠更有效的運用在其他更需要的領域比如包括社福、公共領域那也希望能夠政府能夠重新審視一下對海基會的定位跟資源的分配以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
27718.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
27742.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
請黃建斌委員現在主席本身第四項有三個提案分別是35 47跟56案那35案這部分就是也是針對我們最近的法政業務下我們從不管從一貫道的道青在大陸被逮捕的事情或是兩岸共同打這個案件我們的訊息都比別人慢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
27742.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
27765.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
那除了發新聞稿呼籲譴責會並沒有看到如果會有什麼實質作為的部分那當然部會這邊也來說明說未來會來認會來努力這個部分這個部分我們未來可以這個可以改為凍結10%我們預算改為凍結10%但是還是要專案報告經過同意後再動之那另外47案的部分我們在兩案 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
27766.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
27783.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
事務法規是研擬協調及審議這邊是題列簡列150萬那在陸會這邊來溝通之後這部分我們可以改成主決議的部分那56案這個部分就是我們剛剛也很多提到在捐出這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
27784.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
27805.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
我們經過討論看到這個收到的資料其實都非常的籠統包括他這個辦理這個什麼東下令營這個規模人數還有內容都很粗略完全看不到我們這個執行的細項我想本期還是要表達你們這個資料準備真的是太隨便另外我們看到那個陸森嘉義三線這個參訪活動還有那個高屏參訪活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
27808.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
27827.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
34人這兩天一夜的活動平均每個人的費用將近7000多塊這部分我想也要想要了解到你們這些費用是怎麼編列怎麼處理那這部分我是題列簡列5000萬那希望看路由這邊要怎麼來說明讓大家清楚知道這樣以上三個案子好還有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
27832.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
27854.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
本席在第4幕有5案本席說明一下第33案我們對於陸委會只放話不對話完全喪失原有該有的兩岸緩衝功能而且也完全看起來是沒辦法從制度面或個案面來協助民眾所以簡列500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
27856.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
27882.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
那第39案就是也是針對業務費這個業務費兩岸的政治軍事經濟關係可以說是降到了冰點只剩下社會民間的互動來維持緩和那政府竟然強調健康有序的交流可是看到目前通案開放大陸人民來台 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
27884.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
27907.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
大概只有15項的事由其餘約15項沒有開放的需要準備繁複的申請文件經過中央各目的事業主管機關評估是否符合必要性、急迫性以及不可替代性等要件那獲得專案同意後才可以向內政部移民署提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
27909.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
27927.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
這個提出入境的申請讓民眾申請耗時備審的資料成本增加重重的關卡拉高了交流的門檻所以為了維護兩岸人民自由往來的權利那陸委會應該是責無旁貸那本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
27930.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
27953.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
針對這項預算減列200萬元而且凍結40%請陸委會就如何在不失維護國家安全及整體利益的立場之下達到實質改善兩岸僵局促進兩岸民間交流正常化向內政委員會提出專案報告並經同意後可以動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
27954.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
27971.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
那再来第42案也是很多委员提到的就是国人附入港澳动态登录系统那这个部分确实登录人数少使用率低提供的实质协助成效不明那 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
27973.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
27981.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
今年又編列比去年更多那規劃欠缺金食恐有浪費之餘所以我們簡列這項經費200萬元那最後第55案也是剛剛很多委員所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
27988.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
28017.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
那這個部分呢我想主委跟海基會的秘書長都知道我們新竹縣有民眾就是被這個現在關在大陸嘛那這個部分呢前面都是本席在協助後來請那你們很熱心的來了解之後呢最後還是沒有辦法協助包含他已經被起訴了你們也都不知道那還好本席人際關係還可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
28019.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
28046.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
透過我們的台商我們了解到對岸我們自己的鄉親在對岸的情況所以我們真的覺得陸委會跟海基會好像真的沒有辦法發揮功能我們還是得靠自己所以這個部分本席其實只有簡列六千萬因為其他委員剛剛有發言人都比我多所以我尊重他們接下來請張昭偉以及李柏毅委員接著李柏毅 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
28062.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
28068.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
我們議事人員協助換一下電池好不好我們這個會議開的很長換一下電池 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
28079.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
28094.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
我只想請問主委這第四目整目這法政業務裡面有沒有很多是跟要協助人民處理事情的我覺得這一些等一下你要說明的時候你要說一下李博弈委員接著吳啟民委員今天我們這一排比較少發言三支麥克風裡面有兩支麥克風居然沒電了 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
28110.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
28127.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
其實現在兩岸現在這個狀況我覺得不是陸委會多強海基會多強可以去改變目前兩岸關係最大最大的問題其實在對岸在習近平主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
28129.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
28142.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
那所以說這個全世界都認知的問題那要陸委會海基會一併來承受我覺得這個有點太重陸委會海基會面對國台辦以及統戰部 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
28143.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
28166.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
這樣子的所有的這些動作我覺得身在台灣還是要為所有不管是在目前在中國的台商或者是未來兩岸的交流還是可以正常還是要多做一些努力所以我們是多說無益但是還是希望主委以及海際會的秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
28167.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
28189.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
可以為兩岸不管是目前在中國需要生活的台商們或者是所有台灣可能會到港澳大陸地區或去做經商或旅遊的人身安全以及兩岸相關的政策以及海內外所有對於中國共產黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
28190.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
28198.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
相關研究部門的這些所有的統整的所有的幕僚單位可以做一些說明那來爭取我們的預算謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
28201.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
28221.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
請吳啟明委員好 各位我們與會同仁其實我看前面的節目真的刪減了非常多那後面是不是能改為凍結的方向不然你說兩岸又要交流又要互動你經費又不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
28224.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
28242.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
其實我來到立法院我都是還是要求我們立委會以及海基會兩岸的交流一定要平緩還是兩岸的交流我們還是要持續因為我們台灣很多台商都在中國大陸我相信在座每一個民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
28243.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
28260.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
都有很多好朋友在對岸經商那我們還是希望說我們的陸委會我們的政府部門還是要跟對岸的多交流那交流你的經費又沒有那後面真的也是自愛難行啦所以拜託召委才試一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
28261.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
28289.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
後面我們所有國民黨的委員是不是可以改為我們的凍結的方向大家來共同來討論這樣好不好謝謝吳委員我跟您報告第四幕你剛剛只有講國民黨民眾黨委員刪掉兩億多你要尊重一下國民黨如果都放掉那個有一個兩億多要刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
28291.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
28316.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
好來我們請高津委員各位我的建議是這樣好不好因為這個第四幕比去年又多了七千多萬這七千多萬全部都是捐贈我們的海基會大家都知道海基會的預算也增加了那剛剛羅志強委員還有這個民眾黨團都很堅持尤其民眾黨團是要刪兩億完全全部刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
28317.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
28344.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
然後羅志強委員我覺得與其大家在這邊浪費大家的時間堅持要不要第四幕全部都保留讓他送政黨協商好不好對 趙偉的意思對 如果看看大家覺得怎麼樣對 我們就保留送協商好了好不好OK 那個三最多的民眾黨兩億多OK 我們都OK 好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
28346.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
28349.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
主決議還是保持主決議吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
28371.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
28393.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
是啦 是啦 主決議的應該是那個主決議的還是照案通過啦剩下的保留送協商 好不好好 那我們那個改主決議的是32案 47案跟59案其餘我們保留送協商好 那第四幕就這樣那我們接著進入第五幕第五幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
28401.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
28419.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
好請徐宇珍委員接著張志倫委員謝謝主席本席在第五幕提出的是63案65案68案69案那第60其實這前面這三案主要都是因為這是港澳盟帳的業務但是以現在的一個狀況的話其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
28421.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
28441.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
要派驻港澳的相关人员长期都没有办法正常的履职所以许多的业务也陷入停滞相关的预算执行状况也屡屡不佳目前也没有办法提出有效的一个应对策略所以针对这个部分我大概都提出了一些简略的部分其中69案 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
28444.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
28445.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
是針對這個獎補助費啦69案是針對這個項目有編列了3476萬1000元要捐助給 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
28456.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
28476.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
台港經濟文化合作策進會然後執行港人來台就業就學投資諮詢及專業管理等相關的事務但是我們可以看到就是自從港區的國安法實施以來許多港人因為自由跟安全受到威脅而選擇移居台灣但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
28477.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
28501.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
就是希望能夠在台灣能夠尋求到一個比較好的一個人道的一個環境但是媒體也在今年11月就有披露就是港人來台後常因繁瑣的申請流程和不明確的政策而感到挫折缺乏有效的指引和支援那策進會雖然負責相關的事務但顯然無法滿足這項迫切的一個需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
28501.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
28526.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
而且这笔预算当中的媒体政策跟业务宣传费用有240万元那我们也必须问这些宣导是不是真的有效因此我想本席在这案我提出要减列200万也希望我们陆委会对测镜会的功能跟效能要进行全面检讨同时我们也呼吁政府应该优化港人来台的政策跟机制 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
28526.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
28555.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
提供更透明的流程更有效的指引而且更完善的後續安置的措施以上謝謝請張志倫委員接著請麥玉珍委員好那個我提的是這個陸委會的第60案有關第五目港澳盟藏業務編列一億三那編列一億三千五百萬的部分其中就是要派員 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
28556.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
28582.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
赴我駐澳機構視察那目前來講派11名前往那這個還增加了比113還增加了50多萬所以人數眾多是非必要第二個香港辦事處首長宿舍編列300多萬那香港辦事處已經沒有本國官員駐地其實也沒有駐任的必要第三個本木有捐助最重要捐助財產法人台港 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
28584.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
28599.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
經濟文化合作策進會編列3400多萬以及沒宣費240萬可是這跟陸委會的港澳盟葬處的業務其實是有重複的所以而且陸委會在香港也有設香港辦事處 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
28601.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
28624.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
所以我們就很懷疑那這樣子還有必要去這個捐贈這個財產法人這個台港策進會嗎所以我需要說這個陸委會這邊是不是強調說這兩個陸委會跟這個策進會兩方辦的事情是否有重複如果有重複的話為了要精進政府組織的效能那我們可能會提議減列3000萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
28628.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
28653.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
好 請麥義正委員 接著請王美惠委員好 謝謝主席 我這邊是六十六案六十六案呢 我看到的近三年出國報告都列為機密 密件所以呢 但是他們是有來跟我說 但是我看到很多都是餐區 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
28654.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
28656.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
都是去參訪十幾家餐廳但是後來他們說他們有一個有規劃有改善要怎麼樣具體的進行這樣子的一個國外旅費 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
28669.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
28672.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
所以呢這個部分我就改為主結議要第70案呢淨團令影響兩岸觀光的進展兩岸多次隔空寒化剛才我們很多委員都說了這個部分本來是我要凍結100%現在我改為凍結20%三個月內提出書面報告所以還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
28696.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
28712.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
第86案呢還有陸生來台辦研究生一直在減少比疫情的時候還要減少那個好像是第9幕對 先慢一點好 我們現在到75個一個凍結20%一個是改為主結疫以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝 請王美惠委員主席 在這裡我來請教我們的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
28726.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
28738.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
一月七十三日裡面我們有一個租金港澳是2001年中國要求我們要簽一個公務人員一個中國統一書還有保證位置我們只有兩個人在那裡但是我們正當我們的官司有租金和書用這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
28756.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
28758.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
該誰講一下好不好好請行政單位說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
28768.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
28792.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員的垂詢跟指教有關於我們在港澳的業務我們在香港的辦事處呢由於剛剛委員所說的他用一中承諾書做要求所以我們現在沒有辦法派陸委會跟相關部會的同仁去但是在我們的香港這個辦事處呢有僱了44位僱員在那裡持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
28796.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
28821.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
旅行我們在台北辦的相關的業務這裡面包括核發簽證文書驗證還有急難救助這個都是港人相當需要的那我們在香港仍然有四萬五千人在那邊工作也有將近三百間總部跟地區的企業設在香港那麼他們都有來跟我們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
28822.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
28848.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
我們台北辦的這個成立給他們信心跟士氣的鼓舞有這個必要那在台北就是我們陸委會有協調這個港澳相關業務在跟我們在第一線的同仁做這個定期的這個視訊方面的管理那目前運作是相當良好的那剛剛有提到我們的撤進會 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
28849.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
28869.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
我們測競會跟目前港澳處的並沒有太多重疊而且測競會也就是我們台港的測競會對香港它有一個協競會我們測協平台目前仍然維持工作層級的一些互通是台港之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
28870.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
28894.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
官方溝通最主要的渠道而且都能夠有效的協助我們國人在香港的一些個案的溝通跟協助那另外我們測驚會也在積極的成立台港服務交流辦公室照顧在台港人他們能夠融入台灣社會能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
28896.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
28922.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
安身立命到安居樂業那麼到處舉辦座談會讓他們申請居留定居能夠讓政府的這個制度讓他了解而且我們還做到客製化的為每個個案的服務剛剛委員所提出來的問題我們已經呢過去幾年也許很多港人不得要領但是這一年來他們滿意度很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
28923.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
28948.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
再也沒有那個相關的抱怨我覺得港人在台灣的精神狀態也開始改變那麼從過去不適應或者有政治抗爭症候群一直到現在越來越看到希望越來越安頓也很多港人在回饋社會在跟台灣守護我們這一塊自由民主這塊土地那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
28949.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
28969.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
有關於我們策進會也推動了除了持續經合會、文合會持續進行台港交流之外我們也持續給人道援助另外剛剛委員我們雖然沒有官員在那邊但是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
28970.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
28996.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
一直表達一種態度就是有觀色一直有兩百多萬已經比去年簡歷很多其實我們也在考慮這個有沒有邊但是我們在問我們在當地的台灣人在那邊工作他是希望能夠維持住那麼展現政府的態度隨時會回去對在香港的港人他們的信心還有企業在那邊運作是有一些注意所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
28997.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
29010.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
這些如果預算沒有用我們就是回到國庫來不會用到一毛錢如果可以恢復的話我們就保留在這邊它是一種象徵性的意義那我們也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
29011.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
29029.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
對 這也是一個善意善意是覺得我們有想要的事是然後在我們台灣的這些在香港的我們的國人也會感覺到政府沒有改變在香港服務他們會增加他們的信心還有士氣 以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
29034.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
29047.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
來 請高經緯人我試圖把大家的這個提案我覺得我非常支持美匯剛剛主委也講說會多出的預算會繳國庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
29049.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
29066.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
美惠律師說要減列500 凍結1000牛西庭委員也是要減列500徐宇貞委員是減列200徐新英委員是100所以如果在他的1.3億裡面其實1.3億已經比去年就增加了380多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
29069.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
29077.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
所以這樣加起來的話 我覺得我的建議如果大家要處理的話 是不是可以大家等一下討論一下我們就捲800 然後動10%這樣子張志倫委員有減列3000對 所以我們討論一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
29086.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
29107.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
這個也必須要自由的防禦藥人家就是假設護人,他明年就會進階他現在整體而言,這麼多錢如果檢列八百,凍結一千,凍結完就十年可以嗎?因為他其實我們的錢都是出金,我們出金就佔了,你看看出金都是這些嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
29119.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
29119.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
29124.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
29125.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
你又在那邊擋啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
29159.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
29166.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
現在鄉長沒有人在拉我剛剛有講我剛剛有講我剛剛有講我剛剛有講我剛剛有講我剛剛有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
29183.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
29191.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
你們平均也多了三百八十五萬那就三百八十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
29205.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
29220.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
他要減益你三千的耶現在只剩他多兩百而已最好是三次額後期,不要等下去對啊,他是三減你們三千萬耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
29231.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
29249.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
不太多喔,我今天煎魚都煎了一千啊現在一千了,會動不動嗎?妳的丟血推動魚關羽對於馬蜘蛛嗎?牠是乾魚類還是魚類?我們最近問牠,牠是港狗的牠是港狗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
29286.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
29286.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
哎呦 細漿 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
29296.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
29307.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物。 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
29319.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
29320.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
你這樣講沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
29343.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
29354.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
沒有啦,一定多你們去魚吃就好嘛,你還在那邊講三千塊現在智倫都沒有要減你們三千萬了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
29362.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
29384.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
你不要再說了啦 你剛剛在講說三千萬 對不起三千萬是剛好智能動力的 現在是我們是減一億多的三千比他還錢多我們是用錢的比他還錢多剛剛主委還說用五千多減一千多多少啦 減一千多 百分之十啊對啊 這要報告啦 來 報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
29385.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].end |
29395.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].text |
前一圈都是他三圈他三圈這樣到兩百而已他都寫一百一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].start |
29405.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].end |
29406.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].text |
現在我們就是專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].start |
29437.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].end |
29449.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].text |
好那我們第五幕是第五幕好我們第五幕除了改組決議的是第66案67案70案71案還有72案71案沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].start |
29456.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].end |
29482.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].text |
七十案沒有七十案沒有七十一案七十二案那其他都併案我們減列一千萬然後凍結十趴那請對凍結十趴經專案報告經同意後使得凍資那請吳啓明委員我第五目七十五案改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].start |
29483.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].end |
29497.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].text |
好 謝謝好 來 我們再增加改組決議的還有第75案好 那我們第5幕就到這邊接著來請進入第6幕徐政委員您最多 請您先發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].start |
29512.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].end |
29525.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].text |
謝謝主席在第六幕的部分我有三個案76、80跟8276案就是針對聯絡業務的部分就是總經費是3171萬4千因為我是覺得以目前日前的雙城論壇來說陸委會禁止中國大陸的媒體來到台灣那時候說因為他們都是黨媒不過大陸本來就是以黨領政 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].start |
29541.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].end |
29557.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].text |
所以說針對這個部分就等於完全封閉了雙方媒體交流的一個可能性那這一點我想大家都知道陸媒確實是共產黨的一個宣傳的一個機構這點不用質疑但是我們應該有更多的交流跟接觸讓他們親眼見證台灣的自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].start |
29559.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].end |
29588.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].text |
繁榮跟多元嘛他們回去才會知道說其實台灣是這樣子一個自由的寶島那所以在這個部分的話我們看到就是說我們在聯絡業務的部分其實有很多沒有辦法做到的所以我覺得在現在這個狀況之下其實真的政府經費是很緊縮的狀況之下我們覺得每一筆預算都要劃在刀口上應該用於真正有助於推動業務了那所以基於上述的一個理由的話本席提案簡列該項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].start |
29592.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].end |
29594.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].text |
1000萬元那另外有關巴士案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].start |
29597.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].end |
29622.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].text |
業務費下面的一般的事務費因為今年的增幅就是高達21.92%但是根據這個預算書內容這個所列的項目跟去年完全相同只有費用增加而已那陸委會讓解釋這筆的預算是為了增加透過多元管道反制大陸的宣傳但實際上我們看到的是陸委會越是宣傳兩岸的關係就越是緊張越是惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].start |
29624.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].end |
29627.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].text |
所以針對這個部分我也提出應該要減列100萬元那針對82案的部分是有關資訊軟體的部分陸委會來解釋是說要買電腦是不是要溝通要跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].start |
29643.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].end |
29656.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].text |
office軟體跟我們的這個跟立法院溝通是嗎那我是覺得這比這個資訊軟體的設備費也覺得有點奇怪為什麼陸委會跟立法院溝通還要另外去買這個office軟體以上好還有沒有其他委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].start |
29662.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].end |
29682.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].text |
如果沒有的話本席這個第79案還有81案那特別在聯絡業務的部分它是用在兩岸的政策說明及溝通那我們陸委會的施政目標講得非常漂亮以對話取代對抗以交流取代圍堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].start |
29683.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].end |
29700.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].text |
追求兩岸共存共榮我覺得如果能做到真的是非常好但是我們看到陸委會的官方臉書主要內容有反制認知作戰澄清錯誤假訊息政策宣導還有提升台灣防衛韌性為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].start |
29703.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].end |
29720.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].text |
提醒國人小心這個不要那個那簡單的來說就是盡量不要去大陸所以政府雖然高喊健康有序對話交流維護國人安全宣導防備很重要本席認同但是官方的零互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].start |
29721.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].end |
29743.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].text |
官方的零互動還有對話平台變成放話平台會讓我們覺得兩岸交流距離非常遠所以經過查看兩年度的預算說明幾乎都沒有什麼差異那沒有必要大幅增加相關預算所以本席簡列這個項目267萬7千元好 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].start |
29751.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].end |
29773.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].text |
接下來還有第八十一案八十一案就是凍結一百萬那請陸委會對內政委員會提出具體的這個計劃的具體內容預期成果以及兩岸關係發展的效益提出專案報告後使得動之那請行政單位來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].start |
29777.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].end |
29806.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].text |
好 謝謝各位委員指教有關於我們的聯絡業務的部分我們除了強化兩岸關係的國際交流我們剛才說的我們國際的訪團一年當中有140團那我們強化跟各國會辦公室的聯繫因為委員都有很多相關的這些選民的各項面的服務的請託我們都來全力做好這個國會各辦公室的這些協處工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].start |
29807.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].end |
29831.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].text |
另外在國內宣導部分我們剛剛之前有一幕就已經被刪掉300萬元所以事實上我們國內宣導業務恐怕會受到影響對於新聞服務工作我們在場有很多我們跑兩岸的新聞媒體它也是我們服務的對象這些都是我們聯絡處的主要業務我們希望在 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].start |
29835.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].end |
29849.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].text |
非常有限的資源我們還是準決預算錢資源要花在刀口那也感謝各位委員的這個支持那希望真的已經被刪掉很多的也請各位委員能夠了解 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].start |
29857.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].end |
29872.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].text |
好那我們因為你總共有1400多沒宣的所以那之前減300這邊再減看看這個整個再減一些你們那個宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].start |
29876.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].end |
29893.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].text |
那就整目啦 我們就協調嘛整目看對 剛剛趙偉他整目是三千多萬嘛對嘛 整目三千多萬嘛然後到八十二案嘛所以呢 三千多萬徐宇甄委員是三一千嘛然後大致輪數五百嘛對所以 趙偉寧是兩百六十七嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].start |
29894.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].end |
29921.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].text |
然後許新委員一百嘛 再加三萬嘛大家看看怎麼樣來處理這件事情但是剛剛我還是要講一下他們有比去年多了三百多萬啦對所以大家就是看一下看怎麼處理這件事情是不是有比去年還多三百多萬然後真的是真的做得很好嗎然後我們看到真的到底陸委會的功能在哪裡這是大家等一下來討論的好不好 謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].start |
29922.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].end |
29925.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].text |
那我們下來討論一下好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].start |
29969.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].end |
29969.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].text |
好多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].start |
30032.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].end |
30054.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].start |
30058.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].end |
30081.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].start |
30098.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].end |
30110.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].start |
30148.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].end |
30153.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].text |
哎呦哎呦哎呦哎呦 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].start |
30161.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].end |
30186.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].text |
對呀,因為從日本來的那一邊,有錢,對呀,對呀,對呀,對呀,對呀,對呀, |
| transcript.whisperx[987].start |
30205.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].end |
30205.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].start |
30217.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].end |
30233.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].text |
對呀,所以你先... |
| transcript.whisperx[989].start |
30245.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].end |
30245.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].start |
30259.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].end |
30277.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].text |
不能每個東西都塞都塞都插都 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].start |
30281.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].end |
30295.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].text |
他一直夾 趕你一直刪兩岸關係那麼差就是要再叫他們努力啊他們的努力就是沒救啊人家遇到我們的麻煩 我們怎麼辦法我們也在台灣說一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].start |
30310.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].end |
30330.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].text |
啊,好人啊,那些...我看要怎麼去寫啊?給你們賣這個空位喔,你們動不了啊!對啊,要叫人家去跟人家說,又要叫人家來買東西,還要再叫人家賣,就...還要去收房子,都要... |
| transcript.whisperx[993].start |
30347.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].end |
30349.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].text |
都沒有動都沒有動 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].start |
30365.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].end |
30382.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].text |
第六幕第六幕我们总共并案减列700万元然后我们没有冻结的这个第六幕没有冻结的好那我们接着来继续进入到第九幕好请第九幕有没有委员要发言 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].start |
30390.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].end |
30405.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].text |
好請徐益臻委員謝謝主席本席在第9幕是提了87跟88案兩案我主要是針對第88案就是文教交流活動之輔導與推動那我想這 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].start |
30405.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].end |
30424.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].text |
今年的那個賴清德總統的這個元旦文告也特別提到要呼籲中國大陸從其陸生來台就讀學位不過過去就以去年來說事實上陸生來台的人數每年都一直減少甚至現在只有所謂的研修生並沒有新生註冊的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].start |
30426.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].end |
30444.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].text |
那針對這個部分的話目前我們是編列1839萬那我們看到的是說這些年來說陸生的人數是急劇下降我想主要可能就是我們的政策執行的不利還有就是兩岸在文教的交流上逐漸失去吸引力的一個警訊所以如果這個狀況不改善的話沒有辦法實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].start |
30447.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].end |
30468.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].text |
真的实现两岸和平发展的一个目标也可能让台湾的教育资源跟国际竞争力受到长远的影响所以本席提案冻结该项目1000万要求大陆市委员会同教育部在一个月内向立法院内政委会提出专案报告具体说明如何提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].start |
30469.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].end |
30489.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].text |
陸生來台就讀的意願還有推動相關業務的策略跟方案我想我們要的不是那些形式化的數字而是具體的推動一個方案那我想這也是今年賴清德總統他的總統這個就職演說裡面也特別提到的希望能夠提升陸生這個來台的一個人數以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].start |
30491.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].end |
30514.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].text |
主席好來請王美蕙委員主席對於我84年的改組決議但是我要主委說我們辦公室的解說就是說要傳播台灣自由民主的國家我覺得要徹底的去做因為我覺得說長久以來中國的海上孩子如果來台灣都是中國台灣隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].start |
30520.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].end |
30522.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].text |
這兩邊我所提的解說跟我認為你們要好好去做去強化兩岸文教交流品質跟內涵的問題不是跟這兩邊當我面的我覺得說實在做起來也很辛苦大家是互相的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].start |
30549.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].end |
30555.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].text |
好請丁薛忠委員我90案本來是凍結200萬現在改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].start |
30585.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].end |
30603.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].text |
報告召委不好意思我看了這個費用他也是比去年多了一些費用啦但是呢一直以來好像多比較多的費用是在這個中國大陸台商子女教育的輔導經費對不對然後讓他們了解台灣的因為有很多小孩子在那邊出生嘛或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].start |
30604.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].end |
30626.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].text |
台山跟這個大陸的子女那我覺得這個部分我的建議就是可以不用刪減因為教文的東西希望就是孩子們在文化交流上面會更清楚彼此了解但是你們應該要凍結一點好不好讓你們來說明一下你們未來要怎麼做可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].start |
30627.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].end |
30639.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].text |
我的建議是這樣子 謝謝因為我看了大家的那個提案大概簡略的都很少啦大概都是以凍結為主以上提供大家委員討論跟商量 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].start |
30641.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].end |
30658.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].text |
那本席因為有第94案也在這邊特別講一下就是說我們檢視了陸委會近年委辦學生營隊案等一下請主委要講一下為什麼契約採購方式大多是限制性招標而且得標廠商集中少數幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].start |
30663.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].end |
30686.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].text |
我們建議陸委會要研議擴展青年人營隊的廣度不要獨厚特定廠商之嫌所以我們青年人的交流讓他們很自然的來傳遞我們台灣的價值 增進理解真的 台灣的民主價值我們希望多傳遞給對岸的年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].start |
30688.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].end |
30699.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].text |
那相關營隊參加的對象呢在台就讀大學院校的大陸學生比例反而偏低那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].start |
30701.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].end |
30730.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].text |
前年112年只有45人占总人数的15%大陆的反而少那113年就是去年刚过掉的这个年33人比例更少11%所以我们觉得这个缺少双向交流那陆委会应该要增进两岸青年实际交流为主要任务那我们后来又看到应对每位学生的平均成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].start |
30731.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].end |
30753.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].text |
大多超过1万元所以既然资源有限的情况下我们觉得没有增列预算的必要为了有效监督跟避免浮边经费本席提出减列300万 冻结500万那也要请陆委会来专案报告如何改善以及提升效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].start |
30757.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].end |
30760.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].text |
來這個專案報告後來同意使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].start |
30762.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].end |
30788.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].text |
那如果沒有其他委員要提問那就請行政單位回覆一下謝謝主席各位委員感謝各位的指教在文教業務方面我想推動陸生來台就讀這是我們的政策方向也跟主管機關持續在進行那我們為了營造一個友善陸生的環境我們在去年年初的時候就已經通過陸生納保 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].start |
30790.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].end |
30811.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].text |
還有十項友善陸森的一些措施比較遺憾的是中國大陸還沒有就陸森來台具體的項目跟我們具體來討論這方面我們會持續另外剛剛委員有提到如何透過兩岸陸森的交流能夠傳播 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].start |
30812.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].end |
30833.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].text |
台灣自由民主這些價值以及我們的生活方式那這個我們如果有機會的話讓在台入生那現在就如同委員所說的學位生已經越來越少人家少數的碩博士生那大部分都是短期來這邊的研修生那我們也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].start |
30833.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].end |
30835.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].text |
就算來這邊研修我們也創造機會讓他們能夠深度的來了解台灣我們相關的營隊絕對沒有委員說圖利的事情出來而是因為我們相關的議論不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].start |
30852.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].end |
30877.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].text |
來投標的廠商太少但是我們都一定依照公開招標的作業採取如果說真的沒來的話就是公開評審限制性的招標一切公平透明絕對沒有委員擔心那個地方但是我們還是要求品質希望陸生至少在台灣的陸生都有機會來台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].start |
30879.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].end |
30899.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].text |
來深度的跟我們台灣的學生有機會來做交流因為剛剛委員也提到我們在中國大陸台商他們的一些相關的這些暑假或是寒假的這個營隊活動就是在幫他們上一些台灣元素的一些相關課程那這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].start |
30901.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].end |
30923.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].text |
海基會他們很多預算都有在投入在這邊過去只有120名那這次呢夏令營有達到600名的規模而且除了夏令營又有動力營所以我們海陸養會都會持續讓更多的台商的子女受到政府的這個照顧以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].start |
30924.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].end |
30945.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].text |
你沒有回答為什麼大陸學生比例都10%那你這兩岸交流你剛剛講說短期但是人數表示你沒有真的很用心好像有陸生就好這一點今年度可不可以改善委員一定的我們手邊的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].start |
30948.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].end |
30965.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].text |
這個陸生跟我們是50個陸生反而是51人就是我們辦的多元文化探索研習比例是1比1那我再跟委員了解你那個比例那麼懸殊是哪個交流團我們再來跟你說明好不好謝謝好那剛剛高經委員是說不要簡列 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].start |
30980.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].end |
31003.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].text |
好那我們就這一個部分我們就看那動多少可是他新增的今年新增多少今年經費增加多少你們今年比去年多增多少你們今年比去年增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].start |
31007.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].end |
31018.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].text |
一百多萬對吧我們增加的只是一百一百多萬嘛一百五十萬嘛左右嘛增加的對不對不過主委你剛提到說現在就是招募陸生啊現在大陸那邊不願意跟我們談嗎那你要怎麼去推動這個業務他既然不願意跟我們談的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].start |
31034.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].end |
31054.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].text |
是 我們也希望 因為很多陸生真的很想到台灣來就讀 經常打電話到台灣但是因為他制度沒有開放 他沒有辦法來那目前還有一個部分就是說教育部也在研議要不要從海外的陸生像我們發現像韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].start |
31056.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].end |
31083.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].text |
日本香港好不少這個第三地的這些潛在的聲援他們有表達來台灣就讀的意願就是說目前中國大陸直接來的部分當然這個中國大陸他會有管制大家還沒開放但是就他長期在海外的一些有意願到台灣留學的這個海外入生的部分要不要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].start |
31084.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].end |
31085.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].text |
那我同意凍結500單銷專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].start |
31099.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].end |
31123.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].text |
提出專案報告萬一這五人是百分之二十喔百分之二十是多少對啊他四千多萬凍結百分之二十喔本來是凍結一千萬嘛那我們現在是凍結五百專案報告對凍結嘛那我們討論一下凍多少好了好啦凍結五百 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].start |
31131.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].end |
31131.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].text |
可以嗎?500?凍結500? |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].start |
31141.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].end |
31146.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].text |
他800,我們500,那就賺你的,賺你的,賺你的,你的凍結,你的凍結案是600多,你的是600多,那都是600多,一口價不見是會增百, |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].start |
31184.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].end |
31190.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].text |
第九目有改組決議的有第八十四案跟九十案那我們就統統五百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].start |
31194.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].end |
31216.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].text |
那專案報告 經同意後 使得動之 好不好好 那我們第九幕就到這邊了什麼喔 對對對 同動啊 並案 並案同動好 那接著主決議請問那個行政單位有沒有要特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].start |
31217.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].end |
31222.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].text |
只剩95啊現場處理對 我們那個劉委員的有一個第95案我們是不是可以修正一下文字對 因為劉委員現在不在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].start |
31245.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].end |
31258.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].text |
主席 不好意思請麥委員跟丁薛忠委員幫劉委員看你們有連署好不好看看跟他們講說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].start |
31262.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].end |
31279.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].text |
你們文字修改的部分 它是要每季啊那你們就想可能半年一次對不對你們希望半年它是要每季一個是六個月 一個是三個月然後留用 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].start |
31295.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].end |
31296.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].text |
我們尊重一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].start |
31310.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].end |
31324.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].text |
就照文字修正,所以我們的主決議全部遭案通過了,只有96李博義在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].start |
31327.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].end |
31340.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].text |
所以9596按照文字修正通過 其他照案通過 好不好那我們接下來審財團法人台港經濟文化合作策進會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].start |
31351.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].end |
31379.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].text |
預算委員提案那只有麥委員的那麥委員是不是說改組決議我們就照組決議來通過可以嗎沒有意見那我們就照這樣通過謝謝委員那主委辛苦了請回座接下來我們請大家拿出海基會海基會的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].start |
31450.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].end |
31464.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].text |
那我們現在來審查114年度財團法人海峽交流基金會預算委員提案首先收入,收入的部分只有一案張宏祿委員這邊張委員,張昭偉我就改組決議就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].start |
31471.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].end |
31479.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].text |
那我們的收入部分改組決議接著我們支出部分請提案委員是不是有要陸續來說明或來提問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].start |
31487.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].end |
31510.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].text |
好 請徐議政委員謝謝主席本席在這個海基會的部分有提出第三案 第四案 第六案第九案 十四案跟十五案首先是第三案的部分針對辦公室行政及業務費的部分因為我們發覺就是今年編列了四千六百七十一萬九千較一百一十三年度增加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].start |
31513.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].end |
31531.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].text |
1414萬增幅高達43%那因為現在在海基會的業務跟兩岸溝通不是很順暢的一個狀況之下可是呢就增加了43%的一個幅度那根據海基會的說明是說主要在用於這筆經費主要在用於 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].start |
31532.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].end |
31549.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].text |
文具紙張通訊費用跟大樓的委外管理更新檢測跟修繕那我不曉得說這些日常的行政支出的增長是不是應該隨著業務減少而有下降但是不但沒有下降還增加43%我想這個增幅沒有辦法讓這個我想這個大家辛苦這個繳稅的這個納稅人幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].start |
31555.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].end |
31582.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].text |
所以在這個項目本席提出簡列該項目一千萬元並要求海基會重新檢視相關的行政支出具體提出節流的計畫跟資源優化的方案然後另外第四案的部分就是第四案的部分看起來金額是不高可是我覺得很特別的就是說海基會針對這個部分是針對基金投資運用經理及保管費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].start |
31583.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].end |
31603.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].text |
那海基會在這個部分有一億零七百萬的基金用來做投資我不曉得為什麼海基會的業務居然有這個可以拿可以把錢拿來做投資用那這筆的經費增加的據海基會的說法是因為要編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].start |
31605.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].end |
31625.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].text |
88萬作為績效獎金就是投資的績效如果達12%的時候要編列88萬的績效獎金所以這個部分是我比較不解的地方然後另外還有就是第六案的部分就是說海基會的說明是說針對這個部分維護費是只用於會議室的影音設備電話總機空調設備的維護還有五部公務車輛的養護那 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].start |
31631.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].end |
31649.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].text |
他這邊講到是公務車因為車領比較老舊不過我不太懂為什麼這多今年的這個維運還養護費就暴增了三倍以上不曉得說今年度是什麼樣待會再請這個秘務長說明那還有就是第九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].start |
31652.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].end |
31676.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].text |
第九案這個部分就是我們文教業務的部分也是一樣就在今年是編列了3123萬那比去年113年度增加了這個1600萬那增幅也高達105%在目前就是兩岸的業務其實大幅的縮減之下不曉得為什麼還要增加105%的業務那當然根據海基會的說明說這筆預算是用在 |
| transcript.whisperx[1048].start |
31680.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[1048].end |
31700.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[1048].text |
國人、子女、兩岸青年、藝文交流跟人身安全還有急難救助當然急難救助這個我們非常了解這個也非常必要這個部分我覺得沒有問題但在於其他的部分不過因為這個部分好像業務也只增加了40萬元以今年度編列的3000多萬可是急難救助只增加40萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1049].start |
31702.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[1049].end |
31725.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[1049].text |
所以我覺得針對這個部分而且我們現在其實兩岸的這個子女啊或者是兩岸青年的溝通其實本來是雙向現在其實都是單向了那是不是需要而且陸生來台的人數剛剛也提到也遠不及疫情前的水平那很多學校也因為這樣招生不足而面臨必須要關校那所以針對這個部分我是提出就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1050].start |
31726.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[1050].end |
31745.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[1050].text |
簡列900萬並要求海基會提供具體的計劃跟實行方案說明在目前這種局勢之下要怎麼去有效運用這筆資金那第14案的部分是說這筆經費是今年編列是954萬那較去年的284萬增加了670萬增幅是高達百分之二十三 |
| transcript.whisperx[1051].start |
31756.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[1051].end |
31763.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[1051].text |
235%那根據海基會的說明說這筆預算是會用在跟大學合作邀請專家學者撰寫專題研究報告分析兩岸關係的研討活動以及進行相關的諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1052].start |
31769.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[1052].end |
31786.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[1052].text |
我想了解一下這個業務是屬於海基會的核心業務嗎海基會要做的不是應該是跟兩岸的溝通合作而不是在做這些學術的研究這些學術研究其實交給學校去做就好所以針對這個部分我也提出要減列500萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1053].start |
31788.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[1053].end |
31800.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[1053].text |
那也希望說海基會要重新聚焦於本業優化資源要怎麼樣去避免過度的擴大職權偏離本來你們該有的一個定位那第15案的部分是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[1054].start |
31804.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[1054].end |
31807.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[1054].text |
對外聯絡暨業務費用今年度是編列621萬9千元那也叫去年增加了這個430萬元增加224%那 |
| transcript.whisperx[1055].start |
31820.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[1055].end |
31847.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[1055].text |
海基會表示說這個預算是主要用在赴大陸參加兩岸協議相關的研討會或者是出國參與學術研討會跟台商的活動還有增加臉書的宣傳的成效不過我們看起來既然是兩岸協議的相關事宜剛剛也提到就是說這個一貫道青的這個現在大陸的部分也是應該是要由海基會去處理不過目前都還沒有進一步的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[1056].start |
31848.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[1056].end |
31872.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[1056].text |
還有臉書的宣傳效果不曉得效益是怎麼樣待會也可以請林部長說明一下那目前看不出來說這筆經費是有為什麼需要增加224%的這樣子的一個費用所以我是提出簡列這個300萬元那也請海基會對於國外旅費跟媒體政策的執行成效進行全面的檢討以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[1057].start |
31874.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[1057].end |
31879.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[1057].text |
好 請問有沒有其他委員要好 OK 請麥玉珍委員好 謝謝主席我這邊有就是一般行政第五案海基會首長特別費支出高達95萬3千但是其他機關的標準是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1058].start |
31899.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[1058].end |
31909.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[1058].text |
七百五十萬七十五萬整整高出就是二十幾萬這樣子內容就是覺得變動太大了這個部分的話我是已經改組結議第七案的部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[1059].start |
31917.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[1059].end |
31919.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[1059].text |
因為我們的秘書長有來跟我說明但是也給我們書面說明說我們現在就是增加台商的費用但是我們在台 |
| transcript.whisperx[1060].start |
31934.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[1060].end |
31954.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[1060].text |
2021年我們剩下在大陸沒有多少人還有台商回來我們台灣投資已經一兆3000多億了還有我們蔡英文總統還拿這個政府就是回來台灣的台商回來台灣當作我們的政績強調台商回台投資總額度已經超過就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1061].start |
31964.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[1061].end |
31983.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[1061].text |
2.17兆带来14万的工作机会但是我们现在我们还机会要编列这个预算说为了我们的台商的孩子但是呢在我们看到的108年的时候就是我们的台商的子女有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1062].start |
31986.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[1062].end |
31996.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[1062].text |
兩萬五千多人但是在去年還只有剩下四千多人但是我們的預算一直在增加所以這邊我也是減列了一千五百萬前面第七案第八案我減列一千五百萬第七案的話是減列九千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1063].start |
32010.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[1063].end |
32022.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[1063].text |
這個我是後面就是說明我覺得不符合邏輯我這個我都都沒有去變還有第13案的話這個部分我就改為主決議以上報告謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1064].start |
32026.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[1064].end |
32053.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[1064].text |
還有沒有委員有要提問沒有那我們請行政單位我們請海基會來答覆還有說明主席各位委員這個有關海基會的預算我們充分尊重委員的指教不過有兩個特殊的情況我個人覺得我有責任跟各位報告第一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1065].start |
32055.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[1065].end |
32075.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[1065].text |
海基會的工作有兩個一個是處理交流所產生的事務一個是對話我們兩個事件都是由政府委託由政府編的遺傳那麼海基會從成立以來有關交流這部分從來沒有中斷樹木日會有起伏 |
| transcript.whisperx[1066].start |
32082.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[1066].end |
32109.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[1066].text |
但請各位注意海基會它不是百度邊攤今天一萬件我請十個人來變成一萬五千件我請十五個人降到五千件我把另外五個人辭退海基會不是這樣一個單位那麼交流所產生這一部分幾乎使用掉海基會全部的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[1067].start |
32112.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[1067].end |
32141.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[1067].text |
那麼過去幾年對話中斷這是事實我坦白跟各位報告對話不要太多錢所以海基會的錢是用在處理交流的事務這第一個我跟各位報告假如各位有一個誤解認為現在兩岸關係不好所以有什麼事情在處理沒有交流的部分完全沒有中斷這第一個跟各位報告那第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1068].start |
32143.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[1068].end |
32148.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[1068].text |
各位看到陸委會今年捐助的錢增加多少這是因為過去幾年每年到了後頭幾個月董事長要去募還他錢不夠用錢不夠用我請各位想一想要說海紀委這時候就委託去做工 |
| transcript.whisperx[1069].start |
32172.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[1069].end |
32197.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[1069].text |
供錢自己去找 天天沒有這個道理我這個董事長絕對不幹這種事我這邊坦白跟各位報告所以不是怎麼忽然增加那麼多錢不是是過去幾年前不夠用現在讓它夠用 這樣而已那麼有關這個細目啊我們秘書長掌握 我不是很清楚由他來跟各位報告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1070].start |
32198.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[1070].end |
32205.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[1070].text |
對各位更尊重更詳細是不是主席可以讓我退回去有什麼報告好 可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[1071].start |
32206.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[1071].end |
32235.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[1071].text |
好 等一下請高金委員董事長 我很尊重您而且剛剛聽您講這句話我充分的感動我想請問一下去年是2.7億現在是3.3億是不是就誠如您講的就是您來了之後要求我們的政府要多編不然的話以前都是募款的您覺得很辛苦所以您答應了行政院長要增加的這個預算您才會來做董事長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1072].start |
32236.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[1072].end |
32264.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[1072].text |
那增加的2.7億跟3.3億您真正的看一下現在兩岸的交流跟以前的兩岸的交流真正的發揮有什麼功能然後少子化也有然後你們的人員也減少了就那一棟大辦公室在那邊漂漂亮亮的然後你們要花那麼多錢董事長您不覺得現在兩岸之間的惡意流旋 |
| transcript.whisperx[1073].start |
32265.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[1073].end |
32283.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[1073].text |
一直一直的往上增加嗎那您剛剛說海基會跟大陸那邊並沒有斷的關係那既然這樣為什麼我們的秘書長您還要對外說兩岸的人民要台北市政府在雙城論壇來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[1074].start |
32285.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[1074].end |
32295.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[1074].text |
那看起來好像海基會的功能跟剛剛董事長您講的好像差了很大一截你要如何說服我們你增加的預算是要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[1075].start |
32296.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[1075].end |
32322.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[1075].text |
那我們好像似乎在您剛剛的說明裡面也沒談到也沒聽到你講了一段非常感動的一段話我們很希望我們當然希望海基會能夠發揮您的功能在您當董事長之後能夠發揮功能我們更想聽到您想怎麼做然後是不是能夠再回復到因為預算增加了再回復到以前的兩岸關係海基會的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[1076].start |
32324.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[1076].end |
32351.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[1076].text |
好嗎?而不是請藝術長在這邊回答一些細部的問題我補充兩點跟董事長報告董事長等一下好了您剛剛講的我本席也回應一下你在一起好不好您剛剛說對啦這個海基會它絕對不是路邊攤嘛我們知道你們是開店面的所以花了也蠻多的這個辦公室的錢那您也特別提海基會交流沒中斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[1077].start |
32353.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[1077].end |
32372.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[1077].text |
但是委員們強調的是你沒中斷可是你成效不彰就像小明跟媽媽說我從來沒有停止念書但都考0分這很麻煩所以我們在意的是成效好不好成效您可以一併回答謝謝我現在報告吧我回答高金委員兩個質疑我可能忘了講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[1078].start |
32382.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[1078].end |
32404.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[1078].text |
這裡頭有兩千萬是跟政府同步調整預算另外一部分是以前不夠現在還夠我要坦白跟高居委員報告我不願意做這個事政府一定要我做我說可以但是不能叫我做工自己是找工錢是不可以我要跟主席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1079].start |
32412.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[1079].end |
32438.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[1079].text |
兩岸的事情我們內部各不同黨派各有解讀我尊重我只能跟各位報告我既然答應了我就賣命的做那成果等著看這種事情一半操之在我一半操之在對岸我想各位清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[1080].start |
32440.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[1080].end |
32465.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[1080].text |
我這個年紀還答應做這個事情是笨蛋才答應這個事情所以因為各位接下來就要審預算我們百分之百尊重但是不要亂審你把它砍掉要我怎麼做事砍個四塊錢二十塊錢沒有關係是不是一下子要一億五千塊那我明天就辭職我坦白跟各位報告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1081].start |
32468.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[1081].end |
32496.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[1081].text |
請劉許廷委員然後等一下這個高進委員二輪發言謝謝啊我們董事長有話直說不過這個還是要問一下一些有關預算的一些內容啦其實我在了解啦就是說剛剛講的所謂的不中斷也就是很多的業務跟台商等等的服務其實都有在進行這個我們都了解我們也願意尊重不過因為其實剛剛不管是在省都委會預算的時候這個其實大多也都在講就是說總體來講因為政治環境不是那麼理想的關係所以很多的業務不見得能夠如大家所預期的來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[1082].start |
32498.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[1082].end |
32519.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[1082].text |
那我今天針對海基會的部分我比較好奇的是媒體宣傳的費用跟刊物編輯的費用啦我是覺得在這種時候你好像怎麼宣傳都不對你如果在這個氛圍下面去宣傳說我們要大量的交流好像執政黨很多委員講說這交流都是統戰好像又不太對你如果要講說我要宣傳說這個是敵人要慎防慎妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[1083].start |
32520.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[1083].end |
32538.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[1083].text |
那是不是又背離了當初這個兩岸交流的核心的政策目標所以我很好奇你到底要宣傳什麼這個請你待會來做一下說明第二個有關刊物的部分也是一樣你刊物的內容你要傳達什麼樣的訊息這樣子的一個訊息符不符合當下的一個政治的氛圍跟需要我覺得這一點可能是我個人會比較在乎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1084].start |
32540.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[1084].end |
32552.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[1084].text |
那其他的業務費或者是其他的行政費用等等我想各不同的委員會不同的意見那這大家就好好討論我們好好來審預算這個董事長也稍微喘口氣啦這不是亂三大家都有理由嘛我們就好好來做溝通好不好以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1085].start |
32554.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1085].end |
32577.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[1085].text |
是不是好來請等一下先請所有委員都詢問完來請高金委員對董事長剛剛講的話你真的非常的率性跟你銀切的個性還是一樣是如此的你真是講的實話那這樣子講的話以前的董事長真的就都很辛苦了都要去募款了那所以這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[1086].start |
32578.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[1086].end |
32604.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[1086].text |
照您的話非常直率的說因為增加了這個預算所以您才來做這個董事長但是呢我們看到這兩岸之間的交流或者是在媒體上的發言或者是您給我們政府的意見我們似乎是沒有看到的那我們都支持你那您剛剛說大家等著看未來的這個那我就很想問您未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1087].start |
32605.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[1087].end |
32634.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[1087].text |
你想怎麼做 現在到底 因為我們要增加那麼多的預算給你 你要怎麼做那我們都看不到啊 那針對那個細部的部分 當然啦我們委員不是亂三的 這個董事長我先提醒你一下我們從剛剛省立委會的預算 我們不是像菜市場一樣 我們很認真地在聽很認真的提案很認真的把去年的預算書在這邊做個討論所以我們不是亂三 所以希望您 |
| transcript.whisperx[1088].start |
32634.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[1088].end |
32661.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[1088].text |
能夠理解我們的立法委員內政委員會立法委員沒有用情緒跟隨便像菜市場一樣刪預算並沒有那海基會功能是很重要的對吧我們如果是政府單位有一些問題的時候就要靠海基會對吧這也是您任董事長可能是兩岸都接受您董事長走比較中性的路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[1089].start |
32662.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[1089].end |
32686.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[1089].text |
可是到目前為止我們還看不到中信的路線也看不到兩岸之間海基會有什麼好的互動在我們審預算之前您也沒有拿出來告訴我們你們未來會怎麼樣但是我們卻聽到我們的羅文嘉秘書長在媒體上非常強硬的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[1090].start |
32689.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[1090].end |
32712.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[1090].text |
誰誰誰海基會沒辦法要請台北市市長您認為這樣子的發言是妥當的嗎好像身為一個海基會的秘書長在幫董事長發言所以董事長秘書長這一輪的發言是表示您內心想講的話嗎那當然今天我們不要浪費太多的時間在討論這個問題上基本上你們也沒有來拜訪我 |
| transcript.whisperx[1091].start |
32718.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[1091].end |
32740.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[1091].text |
連秘書長也沒有來拜訪我當我看到媒體你去每一間辦公室拜訪內政委員會的委員就獨獨高精素媒的辦公室您沒有踏進來我的大門都是開的所以當然我今天會在這裡詢問大的方向詢問董事長的方向董事長接任以後我特別的覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[1092].start |
32741.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[1092].end |
32763.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[1092].text |
非常的好我們終於有一個沒有那麼樣的政治性的一個董事長來擔任海基會希望海基會漂漂亮亮的門面可以讓他發揮出來可是到目前為止我們只看到一直在強硬的發言不管海基會也好 陸委會也好感覺到這個善意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1093].start |
32765.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[1093].end |
32792.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[1093].text |
這個橄欖枝是沒有避出去的啊所以今天我們是很重要的我雖然沒有提案但是我有連署其他委員的提案那我也看清楚別的委員的提案了所以讓董事長了解一下好不好謝謝請你不要誤會我們不是菜市場我們沒有亂刪你也不要講那個義氣的話我們如果刪了你就不做了那大家會覺得很可惜啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1094].start |
32793.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[1094].end |
32821.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[1094].text |
給你加油給你鼓勵給你打氣希望海際會真的好好扮演兩岸政府不能做的事情民間來做的事情謝謝好本席在這邊補充報告我們要延長開會時間到議程處理完略請問有無異議沒有因為剛發言的時候已經到5點半了所以本席在這邊插播補充報告接著請徐以珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1095].start |
32824.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[1095].end |
32840.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[1095].text |
謝謝主席我想剛剛聽完董事長的一番話我知道董事長有很多的這個未來要對海基會這邊貢獻的事情不過我覺得您也不要太大的壓力因為事實上在我們在編這個預算的時候那時候您都還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1096].start |
32841.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[1096].end |
32858.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[1096].text |
這個答應要擔任董事長當時董事長人選也不是你所以其實今年有這樣子的一個改變並不是因為你所以說你也不用太大壓力不管最後刪或不刪其實都不是在你身上那你也放心我們會善盡我們的職責把每一筆經費做好嚴格的把關謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1097].start |
32861.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[1097].end |
32886.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[1097].text |
好 那我們接著請羅秘書長來跟所有委員做說明謝謝主席我想針對剛剛包含林委員 徐委員還有高金委員 還有麥委員這些提案的整個我一項一項做說明首先先讓高金委員做報告從我一上來之後我們的同仁很積極的跟您在辦公室聯絡希望能夠過去拜會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1098].start |
32887.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[1098].end |
32912.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[1098].text |
但一直沒有得到您的辦公室的允許所以就時間一直沒有排那個就沒有能夠去跟你碰到面那每個委員我都去跑絕對不會獨露於你何況我們曾經同事過對你非常尊重也有以前的這個同事的情誼所以我想是因為聯絡上可能哪裡出了誤差所以這點特別向你致歉也做說明希望你能諒解 |
| transcript.whisperx[1099].start |
32914.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[1099].end |
32937.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[1099].text |
其實我想就預算編列的具體該這個提案做比較細緻的說明第一個許瑋瑜針對整個勞務成本有關一般行政還有這個行政業務費用的增加的部分那其實在行政業務幾個提案中增加部分是主要是在維護費的增加維護費增加了一共增加了三百八十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1100].start |
32939.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[1100].end |
32961.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[1100].text |
我們今年編了500萬在維護費這個指向增加300多萬這300萬用在哪裡主要是我們有5部的公務車已經16年了那人在使用那所以我們必須有需要比較多的維護經費那以及還有我們的大樓已經蓋好13年這13年中包含有冷氣還有電梯還有外牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[1101].start |
32963.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[1101].end |
32992.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[1101].text |
因為當初設計外牆是用鋁製的外牆那如果不做一些維護修復怕它掉下來會影響公安這些費用編列起來原來我們提出來預算經費是要600多萬但因為整個整理我們預算所以今年我們只剩下380幾萬編成500萬是用在這項目那這些細項都可以提供給委員做參考每一個預計花在哪裡的部分這第一部分做說明這部分第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1102].start |
32993.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[1102].end |
33014.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[1102].text |
是有關於這個文教業務的部分也是徐委員提出這個兩岸民間往來有關於交流似乎這個兩會沒有互動那交流是不是進行正如董事長講交流在進行其中我們預算增加最主要的增加項目增加是花在兩台商子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[1103].start |
33016.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[1103].end |
33036.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[1103].text |
利用暑假跟寒假我們為他辦的營隊為什麼營隊會增加第一個這個營隊已經辦了18年了今年要到第19年雖然麥委員剛有提到說台商人數在減少台商子女在減少但每一年每一梯次我們報名都是秒殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[1104].start |
33037.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[1104].end |
33060.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[1104].text |
還不夠想要來參加的報名人數所以在今年增加預算是為了增加名額和梯次我們增加了東定營還有高中 國高中的營隊這都是在去年便利預算中沒有的所以增加預算一項一項都有細目比如花在場地 花在人為什麼增加這些費用其實就是增加台商子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[1105].start |
33061.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[1105].end |
33085.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[1105].text |
夏令營和東寧營那台商確實存在而這個活動對他們辦了十幾年來不管哪一黨執政確實有它意義所以海基會我們希望能夠擴大的辦理是擴大辦理請問一下剛剛陸委會邱主委也有提到陸委會也會辦理這樣的活動那請問跟海基會的差別是在哪裡海基會真是台商子民就是台商子民那陸委會是為誰辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1106].start |
33092.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[1106].end |
33101.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[1106].text |
可能又辦的不一樣的性質那我們針對就是每年台商自己國小國小的部分 國小學生那所以陸委會是針對國中高中的學生嗎我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1107].start |
33104.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[1107].end |
33124.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1107].text |
來 請陸委會來說明一下因為我覺得剛剛聽到的這個業務其實是重疊但我不曉得你們的分配是怎麼樣因為聽得出來說兩位對於這個台商子女的重視嘛所以今年多編了很多的預算那針對這個部分的話到底怎麼樣做區別否則我們看到是兩邊都有編列相關基本上沒有重疊我們請我們的文教處長來跟大家報告來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1108].start |
33126.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[1108].end |
33154.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[1108].text |
跟主席還有各位委員報告那個台商子女學校他們的就學呢他們不管使用的教科書還有學程考試都跟國內的學生是一模一樣的所以每個學生的補助的經費這是教育部來去補助他們那陸委會呢其實是補助他們辦學校的一些活動那有的是在大陸辦的沒有回來的那這部分呢就是因為他們並不是寒暑假都可以回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1109].start |
33155.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[1109].end |
33169.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[1109].text |
他們有一些是在當地辦的或者是說我們的台商子女學校的老師的活動那可能海基會他辦的是屬於學生的部分所以這部分是沒有重疊的因為我們之前有曾經我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1110].start |
33171.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[1110].end |
33196.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[1110].text |
我們是專門只有補助老師回來的部分那海基會是補助學生回來的對 那我們文教處還有一部分是補助在大陸當地的還有補充教材的活動因為大陸會刪減我們的教科書裡面有關比較政治性的一些內容所以他們會回來上一些補充教材的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[1111].start |
33196.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[1111].end |
33224.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[1111].text |
那這部分的課程因為未來台商子女學校的學生也會回來考我們的試考我們的學測啊那些所以他們這些補充教材是很重要對他們來很重要那這部分是完全沒有重複到的所以我們大概每一個如果委員需要的話我們可以詳細的列出來提供給委員參考因為我們之前都有盤點過這部分多年來都沒有重複以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1112].start |
33226.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[1112].end |
33253.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[1112].text |
主委委員確實沒有重複因為海基會辦的是夏令營跟冬令營是台商指引下暑假寒假回來怎麼辦確實沒有重複這點做說明那第二個針對剛才麥委員提到海基會的特資費的編列比中央部會高沒有我們完全比照中央機關首長副首長特別費列支標準表完全是一致的這點做說明那其次是有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1113].start |
33256.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[1113].end |
33259.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[1113].text |
兩岸業務費用的部分這個有關於剛剛學員提供到投資這部分我們為什麼編列了這個處理費用在這裡我們虧損是因為損益並列我們投資出去賺的跟賠的都要列那整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1114].start |
33280.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[1114].end |
33306.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[1114].text |
我的問題是我不懂為什麼海基會會有資金去投資這樣的業務我沒辦法理解海基會的業務海基會不是應該要去做兩岸的溝通交流嗎因為按照財團法人相關法律我們基金在一定比例以上可以做各種投資操作以增加資金的收益所以我們在一定比例之下法律規定之內委託專業機構做投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[1115].start |
33308.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[1115].end |
33316.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[1115].text |
所以你們現在是一億零七百萬在做投資嘛對不對對我們總計算資金有二十億所以就是其中一億五百萬對 |
| transcript.whisperx[1116].start |
33319.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[1116].end |
33341.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[1116].text |
所以目前為止都是有獲利我們去年獲利存率800多萬扣除所有支出的管理成本大概投資報酬率百分之八點多以去年一年去年有一個88萬的部分就是主要是說針對如果超過12%的收益率要給要付給這個幫助是是是沒有錯目前是到7%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[1117].start |
33342.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[1117].end |
33365.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[1117].text |
目前大概是7到8%左右所以你們是預先編列 如果沒有用到這個是要還回來是的 這點做說明另外我也特別向高級委員 剛才很多委員提到關心有關一道一道幾個長者向各位報告 其實我們也遺憾 中共它沒有宗教自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[1118].start |
33366.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[1118].end |
33383.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[1118].text |
我們的國人是三個長者都是七八十歲高達八十歲他們去到這個在廣東而被逮捕之後有將近兩個月的消息我們一收到家屬的陳情海基會的同仁就 |
| transcript.whisperx[1119].start |
33384.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[1119].end |
33404.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[1119].text |
跟家屬討論我們也透過各種管道我講的各種管道真的是各種的管道包括台商還有其他的機制其他管道我們希望能夠了解這三位長者的狀況以及他到底因何被逮捕一些狀況但其實這個回來的消息幾乎大家都說得不到什麼相關消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[1120].start |
33406.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[1120].end |
33419.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[1120].text |
連證實都沒有辦法得到以往有些案件比如像徐委員提到的一些案件我們可以得到證實我們透過我們管道可以得到證實那這三個長者完全沒有辦法得到證實那拖了將近兩個月那海軍在過程也非常低調 |
| transcript.whisperx[1121].start |
33420.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[1121].end |
33441.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[1121].text |
我一直認為海基會就幫大家解決問題當有人發生問題不管他是誰年輕或長者我們都想辦法救人為優先所以在12月10號海基會例行記者會有記者問到這三個長者的問題的時候我回覆得很清楚我說希望中共能夠立即放人和說明狀況那剛好雙城論壇在蔣社長也可以透過這機會來表達能夠認三位長者出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1122].start |
33448.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[1122].end |
33462.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[1122].text |
我認為救人優先不管哪個政黨政府或民間大家都把救人放在最優先這才是關鍵的不是海基會放棄自己責任或是海基會未盡自己責任多一分力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[1123].start |
33463.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[1123].end |
33491.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[1123].text |
能夠救人回來都是我們的最優先目的所以包在最近一次記者會我們有回答說再次的呼籲中共能夠懸崖勒馬讓這三位長者能夠在過年前回來我也聽到蔣市長回應說他也會想辦法來傳達這種訊息我覺得這是國人需要團結的時候我並不認為如果海基會呼籲救人變成海基會預算要全部刪除的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[1124].start |
33492.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[1124].end |
33511.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[1124].text |
我覺得這很難想像欸秘書長請你不要這樣隨便亂講話我們今天沒有這樣子說要因為這樣子來刪你預算喔你不可以這樣子喔我們是非常在理性在討論的喔你這樣子是要提升大家的彼此的對立嗎好 高經緯我非常尊重你的想法非常抱歉你剛剛講的這個我希望你收回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[1125].start |
33511.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[1125].end |
33538.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[1125].text |
好 我表達說我希望大家能夠一起來救人好 這點 謝謝大家一起來救人是OK的 是我們都同意 是 謝謝但是呢你不可以講說因為這樣子我們刪你的預算你不可以這樣子說好 我收回 謝謝 謝謝你那剛剛因為講到這個 是那請問我們陸委會跟大陸官方應該也是有互動啊這個也問不到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1126].start |
33541.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[1126].end |
33549.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[1126].text |
我確實很認真,很盡力,因為是三個散者非常單純的宗教信仰,他不參與政治活動也沒有任何政治的意圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[1127].start |
33560.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[1127].end |
33573.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[1127].text |
報告秘書長這個是不是請董事長發揮他兩岸之間的功能然後趕快去處理這個事情而不是在這邊又製造另外的事端好不好因為董事長說他希望能夠改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[1128].start |
33576.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[1128].end |
33591.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[1128].text |
這個海警會以前的模式所以我們賦予董事長最高的任務希望他能夠完成這件事情這也是董事長應該做的事情我希望今天在這邊在質詢台上您不需要再回應這個問題了可以再製造另外的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[1129].start |
33606.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[1129].end |
33617.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[1129].text |
為止我來到海基會也半年這半年我當然知道目前兩岸情勢要推動交流也好或交流衍生的問題其實我們在解決問題的時候格外困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[1130].start |
33619.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[1130].end |
33639.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[1130].text |
但是我們仍然盡全力在做那我有體認到海基會跟海協會對岸海協會從1991年成立到現在34年這34年來它有它的貢獻跟功能這個架構這個機制我非常珍惜我認為對兩岸未來的發展也十分重要這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[1131].start |
33641.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[1131].end |
33663.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[1131].text |
我們保存它 維護它讓它能夠更新發揮不管情勢多麼變化維持這種機制跟管道我認為是必要的所以我想我個人在擔任這個角色我一直秉持的是珍惜海基會存在的價值以及發揮海基會能夠發揮的最大能量把事情做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1132].start |
33664.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[1132].end |
33688.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[1132].text |
那這個也希望能夠得到諸位委員支持和在預算上的這個支持那相關預算技術性的部分在之前的拜訪或是所有文字說明我們都逐項逐條逐目說清楚增加在哪一部分哪個原因我們都可以如實的羅列這些增加項目所以以上特別向各位委員做說明謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1133].start |
33693.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[1133].end |
33696.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[1133].text |
我們現在協商一下看這個海基位預算怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1134].start |
33719.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[1134].end |
33721.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[1134].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1135].start |
33745.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[1135].end |
33750.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[1135].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[1136].start |
33760.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[1136].end |
33765.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[1136].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1137].start |
33782.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[1137].end |
33794.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[1137].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1138].start |
33817.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[1138].end |
33817.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[1138].text |
鸡蛋 |
| transcript.whisperx[1139].start |
33831.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[1139].end |
33851.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[1139].text |
辛苦了我們給另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1140].start |
33862.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[1140].end |
33876.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[1140].text |
好嘞 |
| transcript.whisperx[1141].start |
33896.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[1141].end |
33899.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[1141].text |
鮮奶油 |
| transcript.whisperx[1142].start |
33924.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[1142].end |
33929.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[1142].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1143].start |
33955.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[1143].end |
33970.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[1143].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[1144].start |
34015.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[1144].end |
34017.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[1144].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[1145].start |
34039.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[1145].end |
34041.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[1145].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[1146].start |
34051.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[1146].end |
34053.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[1146].text |
這裏面有兩間餐廳。這裏面有兩間餐廳。這裏面有兩間餐廳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1147].start |
34099.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[1147].end |
34100.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[1147].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1148].start |
34108.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[1148].end |
34129.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[1148].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1149].start |
34132.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[1149].end |
34137.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[1149].text |
我們看一看,如果全塊變成一個山,你會用多少錢?但是那個絕端 |
| transcript.whisperx[1150].start |
34148.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[1150].end |
34152.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[1150].text |
海基位這邊是有規劃的,有簽名的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1151].start |
34175.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[1151].end |
34197.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[1151].text |
對,天天要來,然後兩天就在天天錄影我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是男人,女人我們都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1152].start |
34198.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[1152].end |
34204.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[1152].text |
我剛剛收紙在挖,我又買了,不然我會帶你去挖,我會帶你去挖 |
| transcript.whisperx[1153].start |
34218.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[1153].end |
34224.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[1153].text |
好,我們吃飯了,除了雞肚不怕會餓的,還有雞肉、雞肉串,他們說炸蝦子、蝦子、蝦子、蝦子、蝦子,你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1154].start |
34233.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1154].end |
34235.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[1154].text |
我昨天在這裡遇到一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1155].start |
34249.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[1155].end |
34256.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[1155].text |
我跟他講話,他跟我說,我跟他講話,他跟我說,我跟他講話,他跟我說,我跟他講話,他跟我說, |
| transcript.whisperx[1156].start |
34269.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[1156].end |
34284.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[1156].text |
我聽到的時候,我心想,我自己在那裡,你也不在那裡。我說,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡,那裡, |
| transcript.whisperx[1157].start |
34291.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[1157].end |
34311.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[1157].text |
我跟他們說 哇 這樣不太行喔都不喜歡現在 每一個人都不喜歡 都不喜歡現在 每一個人都不喜歡因為 以前有很多人 他們都不太喜歡 他們都不喜歡我從來都不喜歡 我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[1158].start |
34318.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1158].end |
34325.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[1158].text |
打電話,不打電話不要去,怪你咋子,家屬最壞,咋弄咋子,咋弄咋子,咋弄咋子,咋弄咋子, |
| transcript.whisperx[1159].start |
34331.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[1159].end |
34350.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[1159].text |
就一邊說 太陽光維修就沒用了所以我們現在說 讓酒要去調整我們現在是讓你調整 沒有針對這項主要調整 你只要調整得好 你也沒用 |
| transcript.whisperx[1160].start |
34359.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[1160].end |
34362.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[1160].text |
大家好有厭俗啊 你看人家落地了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[1161].start |
34380.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[1161].end |
34384.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[1161].text |
大伯爺無影子,無盡看大伯爺農地呀,哎呀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1162].start |
34410.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[1162].end |
34422.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[1162].text |
他在台山的子女自己在台山自己有資料去那裡什麼的我們沒有辦法,他自己都會來那裡刪對啊,他們都在台山,我們怎麼來補償我也輸到刪對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1163].start |
34437.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[1163].end |
34441.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[1163].text |
好多人啊,這都不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1164].start |
34447.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[1164].end |
34450.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[1164].text |
那裡有個藍色的黃色的啊那裡啊哈哈哈哈 |
| transcript.whisperx[1165].start |
34482.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[1165].end |
34486.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[1165].text |
對啊 整齊又不用弄招攤 最好選擇馬上整齊吃完 第一次吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[1166].start |
34505.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[1166].end |
34532.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[1166].text |
有啊有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1167].start |
34538.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[1167].end |
34546.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[1167].text |
沒有啦 先說起來先說起來沒問題 阿你怎麼回事阿你怎麼回事阿你怎麼回事阿你怎麼回事阿你怎麼回事阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[1168].start |
34554.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1168].end |
34576.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[1168].text |
三個 三個 上海 上海然後那個東莞華東 華東東莞 東莞 東莞最近是最多了東莞現在比較少了少 改成還有這幾年 這些財產其實他高中畢業還要連在大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學比大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[1169].start |
34603.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[1169].end |
34606.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[1169].text |
好我們還機會的喔這個好來來請麥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1170].start |
34615.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[1170].end |
34621.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[1170].text |
再說明一下因為我這一邊我是處理兩岸事務我是檢列9000萬子女教育的部分因為我有他有跟我們說明那是108年我們看到的是他給我們的資料是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1171].start |
34635.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[1171].end |
34641.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[1171].text |
兩萬五千多人一二年我們的子女只有四千多人但是他們現在是把國小國中國小以前都有每年都有去就有去做我們的暑期就是回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1172].start |
34651.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[1172].end |
34672.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[1172].text |
現在他們上國中了就把國小的跟國中的統包在一起這邊人次就是多一次多兩次多三次再回來是這樣子就變補習班跟著小孩跑這樣子的一個用意因為現在人數少了國小的人數越來越少因為回來台灣投資也是變成我們蔡英文的政績了所以變成是他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1173].start |
34680.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[1173].end |
34689.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[1173].text |
國小少了就把國中的還有少數的國小合在一起剛才呢我們已經同意說兩千萬但是呢我們許以正說委員說多五百萬嘛對不對但是他一直我們的秘書長一直說 |
| transcript.whisperx[1174].start |
34697.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[1174].end |
34702.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[1174].text |
我們要刪的是台商的教育這樣的話他們就會減少的業務我們都說明說我們是整目來去減淚讓他去調解但是他把這個就是像是我們委員這邊刪減他的預算是因為不要讓我們台商的紙米回來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1175].start |
34720.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[1175].end |
34721.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[1175].text |
的人數變少 他的業務變少所以現在我們就不要去簡略交易的部分嘛但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1176].start |
34730.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[1176].end |
34752.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[1176].text |
我们就不减略交易的部分所以我们现在减略了处理两岸事务九千万我就坚持这个这样是不是就不会减略到他的交易的费用了交易费用我们就是让所以减略我们第七案处理两岸事务的我这边减略了九千万 |
| transcript.whisperx[1177].start |
34753.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[1177].end |
34780.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[1177].text |
好 以上報告欸 等一下你這九千萬是你堅持九千萬啊不是總共兩千萬嗎但是他們就覺得說我們三兩千萬是不對他們的要求所以是這樣子把我們扣帽子就這樣子所以 那是不是那來來來 趕快說明一下趕快說明一下來來來 趕快說明一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1178].start |
34783.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[1178].end |
34807.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[1178].text |
剛剛聽了各位委員的意見我們現在不能同意說拼案兩千萬然後我們來調整那有關於原來我們希望辦的我們沒有要你們同意不同意這哪有什麼你們同意我們接受這樣子的我沒有問你同不同意這是所有委員大家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1179].start |
34807.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[1179].end |
34809.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[1179].text |
但是麥委員您現在堅持要減列9000嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1180].start |
34832.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[1180].end |
34850.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[1180].text |
所以沒有吧還是有好啦好啦那個對不起剛剛我聽麥委員說剛剛在跟您協商的時候您說我們刪這兩千萬就是要刪台商的教育希望你能夠澄清沒有講這句話要不然麥委員再重講一次好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1181].start |
34853.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[1181].end |
34864.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[1181].text |
我們併案刪除兩千萬兩千萬我們會來重新調整我們的收支預算我們希望有關於原舉辦的台商子女夏令營東林營能夠照常舉辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1182].start |
34867.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[1182].end |
34894.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[1182].text |
那你剛剛讓麥委員聽到他覺得你亂講的要不要收回你願意嗎我剛才沒有這樣講我剛才講是說如果要調整可能會影響到因為我們要重新因為增加預算我們增加這次增加一千五百萬就用在台商子女現在要減列兩千萬等於說我們增加預算用在這邊那這邊如果要維持原來我就要去其他地方再去減少這個一定要我們要做些調整對 |
| transcript.whisperx[1183].start |
34897.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[1183].end |
34921.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[1183].text |
你今年增加的預算不只是台商紙米的增加但是你一直強調我們刪掉的預算就是紙米的費用他現在還是強調這樣子的意思啊對不對他就是可能不是說我可能我們我們就是要讓他來去刪減那改水就不是這樣改水啊改水就是加加一個放大這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1184].start |
34923.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[1184].end |
34927.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[1184].text |
這件事情叫做開水啊民進黨委員王美惠說上吊我們是要留著她說上吊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1185].start |
34946.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[1185].end |
34951.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[1185].text |
讓我們何時來調因為我這樣子我愛調進啦既然我提這個計劃預算我一定希望他能辦嘛賴委員你也放心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1186].start |
34966.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[1186].end |
34977.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[1186].text |
那你放心啦,我不會去對台商子女或台商或媒體講說因為怎樣所以這怎麼樣這點你放心,我講的話我算數這樣子好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1187].start |
34978.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[1187].end |
35004.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[1187].text |
那麥委員 是不是大家統善所以我們溝通就是我們希望說因為我們看到的人數還有的費用是增加一半人數減少 費用增加但是說明沒有達到我們看到的所以我們才要說剛才我們也是全部我們統三兩千萬讓你去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[1188].start |
35005.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[1188].end |
35009.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[1188].text |
對 三選三議統 三兩千萬所以我們徐宇甄委員說他這邊增加很多所以他希望說希望多五百萬但是你一直強調說你三這個兩千萬就是我們的紫米的這個部分的業務的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[1189].start |
35024.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[1189].end |
35045.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[1189].text |
就會減少 減少他們很開心不用辦那麼多所以你一直在強調這一塊我們覺得我們要統三讓你去調整不是讓你說你針對這一塊一直在放大好像我們是針對台商的子女所以台商的子女就是沒有照顧本來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1190].start |
35047.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[1190].end |
35060.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[1190].text |
從國小國中都要去照顧嘛對不對但是你一直以來辦國小的啊現在國小的人越來越少因為回來台灣投資也很多現在少子化對不對看到的人數少但是預算變類更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[1191].start |
35062.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[1191].end |
35064.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[1191].text |
我們就省一算我們不是說看到人人越少錢越多這樣就丟這樣不對服務人少當然經費變少服務人少經費變多這什麼邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1192].start |
35078.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[1192].end |
35100.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[1192].text |
對不對 所以說我們覺得不合理嘛不合理我們才要你說明嘛但說明我們看到真的是人變少了現在你把國小 國中合併辦理國中 國小 國小以前有辦過了現在呢 他們想要再回來第二次你把它合在一起又再辦是這樣子的邏輯 所以我們感覺就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1193].start |
35101.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[1193].end |
35119.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[1193].text |
五十一班嘛 對不對針對小朋友的長大到幾歲就是這樣子延續服務他搬到國中我們就搬到國中服務搬到高中我們就高中去服務大學再到大學服務是這樣的邏輯啊 我覺得很奇怪嘛所以我們當然提出異議啊好 那現在等一下啦經過溝通以後麥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1194].start |
35129.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[1194].end |
35131.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[1194].text |
請行政單位委員有些提問跟包括刪減或凍結的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1195].start |
35151.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[1195].end |
35179.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[1195].text |
他的这个用意也要能够理解好不好行政单位要能理解那我们是不是共同决议减列2000万可以吗可以可以了对顺便刚刚有讲了对刚刚顺便知道吗要提供提供给整个我们内政委员会的委员好吗好OK好那我们还有组决议还有组决议嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1196].start |
35181.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1196].end |
35207.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[1196].text |
接下來請問主決議主決議有四案第二十一案文字修正那請問是不是十九二十二十二都照案通過然後二十一案是照文字修正通過請問有異議沒有沒有那我們主決議我們就三案照案通過二十一案是文字修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[1197].start |
35208.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[1197].end |
35233.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[1197].text |
好那接下來好接下來我們請專委宣讀協商結論大陸委員會預算協商結論稅務部分預算照列稅出部分第15項第一二案合併處理減列300萬元第一幕一般行政第五第七案改組決議第三四六八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1198].start |
35235.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[1198].end |
35256.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[1198].text |
並案處理檢列三百萬元科目自行調整第二幕綜合規劃發展第十一十二十四十八案改組決議第九十十三十五十六十七案並案處理檢列六百萬元科目自行調整第三幕經濟業務第二十一二十五二十八案改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1199].start |
35258.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[1199].end |
35272.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[1199].text |
其委員提案合併處理檢列300萬元科目諮詢調整凍結10%向本會提出專案報告經同意後使得凍資第四目法證業務第32、47、59案改組決議其委員提案保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[1200].start |
35282.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[1200].end |
35293.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[1200].text |
第五目港澳門帳業務第66、67、71、72、75案改組決議其委員提案合併處理減列一千萬元科目自行調整凍結10%向本會提出專案報告均同意後此得凍資第六目聯絡業務第76到80案併案處理減列七百萬元科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[1201].start |
35309.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[1201].end |
35329.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[1201].text |
第八目第一倍金預算照列第九目文教業務第八十四九十案改組決議其餘委員提案合併處理凍結五百萬元向本會提出專案報告經同意後使得凍資組決議第九十五九十六修正文字通過其餘提案照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[1202].start |
35333.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[1202].end |
35361.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[1202].text |
財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算協商結論收入改組第一案改組決議支出第五、第十三案改組決議區委員提案合併處理檢列兩千萬元科目自行調整組決議第21案修正文字通過第十九、二十二案照案通過財團法人台港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算協商結論收入預算照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[1203].start |
35363.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[1203].end |
35364.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[1203].text |
支出第一案改組決議訓導完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1204].start |
35369.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[1204].end |
35394.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[1204].text |
好 请问各位委员讨论事项所列有关114年度中央政府总预算案关于大陆委员会部分财团法人海峡交流基金会及台港经济文化合作策进会部分有委员提案的部分照刚才宣读的协商结论通过没有提案的部分预算均照列请问有意义 |
| transcript.whisperx[1205].start |
35395.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[1205].end |
35402.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[1205].text |
好無異議通過本次通過之決議文字授權主席以及議事人員處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[1206].start |
35408.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[1206].end |
35434.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[1206].text |
114年度中央政府总预算案关于大陆委员会部分审查完均拟据审查报告含附财政委员会114年度财团法人海峡交流基金会及台港经济文化合作策进会预算案均宜审查完均分别拟据审查报告提报愿会公决不需交由党团协商 |
| transcript.whisperx[1207].start |
35435.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[1207].end |
35459.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[1207].text |
並推請本席與院會討論時做補充說明好 等一下好 那我們請陸委會 海基會還有相關列席單位可以先行離席那我們先加油 別沒力了好很失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[1208].start |
35461.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[1208].end |
35489.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1208].text |
好 現在開始審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院單位預算案請宣讀預算數及委員提案宣讀完畢後再進行協商對不起 趙偉好 來 請那個書面到底他們提出來了沒有書面最後沒有寫出來沒有寫出來為什麼我們要審查預算呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1209].start |
35490.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[1209].end |
35499.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[1209].text |
那先等一下是不是給他先宣讀完我們再來決定審或不審可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1210].start |
35501.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[1210].end |
35530.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[1210].text |
好吧 那你就先讀 但是我真的也是覺得太多的問題啦 真的我覺得這個部分今天那個秘書長真的也辛苦了你就知道坐在這邊是挺辛苦的啦那真的也是一種腦力激盪那所以呢 您這樣子這個不尊重立法院您真的要感到跟我們抱歉所以呢 您的書面又沒有新的來那我們到底要怎麼審你的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[1211].start |
35531.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[1211].end |
35555.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[1211].text |
所以我們讓他至少念完最後我們要再譴責或是怎麼樣我們再來進行可以嗎我可不可以請他說明對不起我真的很在乎這個態度的問題因為我看到聯合報我不知道這是真的還是假的聯合報上面寫說就在龔明星起身離開後一分鐘也就是4點41分立委吳思瑤在黨團內部群組說我請他們都離開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1212].start |
35561.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[1212].end |
35589.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[1212].text |
4點42分立委林怡瑾說但官員陸續回委員會了立委王逸川在4點45分說內政行政官員全走了立委吳佩玉回應立委蘇巧慧在4點42分的貼圖問這畫面是4點42分所以是有回去又離開嗎政院為什麼要聽國民黨的回去呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1213].start |
35590.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[1213].end |
35594.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[1213].text |
王一川委員又再貼出委員會直播的截圖說怎麼有人堅持不走呢唉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1214].start |
35598.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[1214].end |
35605.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[1214].text |
立委黃婕則替這張截圖解說留下的官員有哪一些呢有內政衛福勞動處處長主計處處長交通環境資源處處長主計總處專門委員我不知道這個意思是不是要處理留下來的人我覺得這是另外一個霸凌所以呢我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[1215].start |
35623.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[1215].end |
35629.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[1215].text |
聯合報這個新聞是不是真的如果是真的話我們要讓廣密書長在這邊承擔所有的責任的話我們也委屈您了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1216].start |
35637.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[1216].end |
35640.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[1216].text |
我沒有接到吳思堯委員還有剛剛提到您剛才那些委員的電話完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1217].start |
35659.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[1217].end |
35665.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[1217].text |
但是他那個並不是說他請你他搞不好跟你的幕僚吳思瑤在黨內這是民進黨黨內的群組不是我沒有接到您剛才提到的這些委員沒有吳思瑤這個委員他沒有說他跟您聯絡他只有說他請我們知道他不是打電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[1218].start |
35686.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[1218].end |
35704.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[1218].text |
或者是他也許請誰然後包含您的幕僚那誰打電話給您的呢幕僚我有說過我辦公室同仁同仁哪一位辦公室同仁哪一位哪一位我辦公室裡面有十位啦那哪一位嘛你怎麼會清楚掉你的通年紀錄呢是不是國外聯合不是國外聯合 |
| transcript.whisperx[1219].start |
35711.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[1219].end |
35724.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[1219].text |
你的這個木蘭還可以叫你離開喔他不是叫我離開那是怎樣不是 他是提醒我就是說要確認我是要繼續留下來那是哪一位嘛哪一位嘛不是我同仁啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1220].start |
35724.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[1220].end |
35746.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[1220].text |
哪一位同仁嘛 今天不就是在問你這件事情嗎要追究責任耶不要給同仁壓力啦 我來承擔要追究責任啦 所以你的意思是說你自己要承擔責任是不是那請問一下你要怎麼懲處你自己看看啦 委員會怎麼決定我就照辦好 我們有一個提案啦沒有看到 來 現在有哪一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1221].start |
35751.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[1221].end |
35757.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[1221].text |
因為我們清楚知道你要自己承擔這個責任啦你辛苦了也委屈你啦來 我們的提案是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1222].start |
35758.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[1222].end |
35781.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[1222].text |
主委你那天明明就有回來而且我們大家都坐在委員席我們都看到你接了一個電話然後掛斷取聲就走你的一個幕僚可以指使你離開你在你早上的報告裡面寫說因為不確定沒看到朝偉回來所以你不確定會議是否開始你是不會問一下大家嗎我們都坐在那裡那不是在開會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[1223].start |
35782.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[1223].end |
35801.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[1223].text |
我覺得這第一個很奇怪啦第二個聽我把話講完第二個就是說下午的時候你在報告裡面你講說下午的時候因為顯示並沒有這個會議狀態並沒有改變你就馬上離開你難道不知道二十分鐘之後會議就改變了嗎你行政院這麼多的人這麼多的府會啊通通在立法院裡面走動都沒有人跟你講狀況改變了嗎這不是很奇怪嗎你要不要先針對早上你的亂七八糟的報告我給你一個下午寫新報告你也沒寫出來那是不是要交代一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1224].start |
35810.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[1224].end |
35819.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[1224].text |
坐在這邊你坐在這邊是得寫啊對不對來你先針對剛剛的問題回答一下到底發生什麼事了我覺得很奇怪耶請秘書長秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1225].start |
35822.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[1225].end |
35846.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[1225].text |
那個我剛才講說兩點多的時候那時候是會議還沒召開吧螢幕上顯示嘛那後來當然有改對不對對你知道有改嗎對我改所以為什麼我要回來看一看就是因為他改了對啊那改了你看到我們就坐在這邊那不是要開會是什麼呢那為什麼走了呢對啊那後來就很抱歉沒有看到主秘是主秘通知您回來的吧請問一下是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1226].start |
35847.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[1226].end |
35852.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[1226].text |
醫事人員有醫事人員通知嘛醫事人員通知你回來啊就表示是要開會啊不是這樣我都不知道該怎麼說了你這個離開很奇怪啦第二個就是說你本來有幾位幹部坐在這個下面我們還幫他拍拍手我印象很深刻說這個堅守崗位沒有忘記被尋的義務結果這些人不知道為什麼就走了然後後來聯合報報導出來才講啊原來有人點名嘛那不然為什麼他們走了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1227].start |
35877.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[1227].end |
35890.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[1227].text |
你的五位坐在下面的那五位處長是在開會的狀態許新寅 趙偉思已經進來已經開始開會了為什麼他們離開了你作為頂頭上司你要不要說明一下為什麼我沒有指使他們做什麼動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[1228].start |
35892.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[1228].end |
35918.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[1228].text |
你沒有指使但那一天發生一件事他們要走我就說你們可能我們也不為難他們我們就說那如果你有被要求要離開你就離開結果一個一個就離開了那因為他們是列席的行政官員我們就不好我就沒有問他說好那你離開是誰要求你所以等於表示就是他們已經用行動表示說上面或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1229].start |
35919.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[1229].end |
35939.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[1229].text |
主管單位有示意就是要他們離開了當天其實那個都有錄音錄影都可以查得到他們就陸續走了所以就明明就知道有這些事情然後你還寫出這樣的報告簡直就是匪夷所思這個讓人沒有辦法理解這沒有辦法理解總要有個說法有個交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[1230].start |
35941.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[1230].end |
35967.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[1230].text |
你今天如果一早就是這個當然我們都清楚那天早上的狀況是很混亂的所以你說早一點你也許跟徐經理稍微打一個招呼跟再兩位事後那個12月幾號你現在兩個禮拜12月18對不對大半個月了你就會來但凡你來講解釋解釋清楚說明今天狀況不會這麼難看就什麼話也沒有又媒體剛好又有講到說原來是受黨團的指指當然真假這是大家各說各話啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1231].start |
35968.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[1231].end |
35990.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[1231].text |
可是中間你都沒有來說明後面什麼那當然現在不是僵在這個地方了嗎那你說我們應該怎麼處理呢對不對總不能真的開了這個惡例之後以後所有行政官員可以自己去詮釋立法院的會議狀態說走就走那以後立法院在野黨怎麼監督都很奇怪嗎不管是你要或是你手下那五個處長要你總要有個說法吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[1232].start |
35991.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[1232].end |
36019.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[1232].text |
對不對我是不會太為難你手下的人啦他們說我看到那邊我後面拍手是我也很擔心要變夾心餅乾啦事實上我的預測是正確的對不對但你做的頂頭上因為你來過嘛你來過我們就講說等一下要開會對不對我謝謝你特別回來我都還特別講我都有印象我就坐在這個位置結果跑掉了那不是很奇怪嗎對不對你還是要給大家一個說法啦好謝謝好那我們剛剛有他們這個一些委員的提議齁那是不是念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1233].start |
36023.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[1233].end |
36034.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[1233].text |
要不要印一下 要印一下 先印一下好了主席 後面也印一下給我們看一看 不然錢責我們來印一下意見也看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1234].start |
36051.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[1234].end |
36052.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[1234].text |
那 牧師長你先回座一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1235].start |
36094.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[1235].end |
36111.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[1235].text |
先發先發給民進黨的委員沒有 沒有 不用 不用叫孫希蘭叫孫希蘭不要緊 你叫我怎麼分怎麼分好 從這邊開始分這邊這邊這邊先 |
| transcript.whisperx[1236].start |
36124.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[1236].end |
36127.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[1236].text |
好 那我們請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[1237].start |
36149.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[1237].end |
36174.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[1237].text |
113年12月18日内政委员会通过临时提案要求行政院于一周内就行政院秘书长龚明星未经召委同意擅自离开会议室回避国会监督以示提出调查报告然行政院秘书长龚明星竟无视内政委员会通过之决议今日提出报告内容敷衍了事完全未提及神秘电话来源及相关失职人员显有隐匿之情事 |
| transcript.whisperx[1238].start |
36174.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[1238].end |
36200.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[1238].text |
原要求行政院秘書長龔明欣對藐視國會之行徑提出道歉並負起相關政治責任另要求行政院於一個月內提出懲處名單提案人高金素梅曼玉珍黃劍兵兵學中張智倫徐宇珍牛許廷宣讀完畢好這個案子我們是不是就通過維持立法院的一個原則跟尊嚴好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1239].start |
36207.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[1239].end |
36230.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[1239].text |
我不知道行政院他們看法怎樣但我覺得並負起相關政治責任另要求行政院一個月內提出懲處名單我覺得這一句要不要留著還是刪掉我覺得這一個事件其實就是政治責任的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[1240].start |
36233.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[1240].end |
36250.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[1240].text |
那我們提案委員的意見如何我剛剛沒有聽清楚剛剛是講本來就是政治責任那個張昭偉他說最後一句是不是拿掉然後你肩負起相關政治責任嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1241].start |
36253.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[1241].end |
36281.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[1241].text |
最後最後一句對另要求這邊拿掉我認為應該要啊因為今天是行政院秘書長是代表行政院出席立法院內政委員會的備詢還有審查預算當然是行政院要負起責任而且剛剛鞏租鞏秘書長我覺得你是一個很勾引的人我們真的也也心疼你啦但是這件事情呢無關政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[1242].start |
36282.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[1242].end |
36305.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[1242].text |
他必須要在立法院建立起一個非常嚴肅的一個規範如果行政院都不給出一個交代的話我覺得這個真的是磁力一開以後就沒完沒了那立法院只要是任何一個人在場的官員他認為他要離席他就離席嗎是可以這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1243].start |
36309.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[1243].end |
36317.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[1243].text |
好那我們是不是照案通過我們就通過這個要表決秘書長你要你要不要說一下還是好那請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1244].start |
36328.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[1244].end |
36355.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[1244].text |
這件事情我就自己承擔那前面寫的事情我會做一個回應我會寫一個報告那至於說懲處的部分也僅之於我我只能這樣講而已對不起不是你的問題你的職位是行政院秘書長今天我們對的是行政院對於這件事情我剛剛已經說過了你是代表行政院來這邊接受內政委員會的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1245].start |
36357.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[1245].end |
36379.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[1245].text |
所以不是你說怎樣就怎樣好不好謝謝好那所以因為民進黨委員有提出說要表決啦好不好那提出要表決我們就針對這一塊這一塊好那我們贊成通過的請舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[1246].start |
36385.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[1246].end |
36411.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[1246].text |
贊成通過的劉許廷委員贊成徐宇貞委員贊成丁學中委員贊成黃建斌委員贊成高金素梅委員贊成麥玉珍委員贊成反對通過的請舉手張宏祿召委反對黃捷委員反對王美惠委員反對蘇巧惠委員反對李博義委員反對吳啟明委員反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[1247].start |
36414.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[1247].end |
36428.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[1247].text |
好 那這樣是6比6那本席就贊成通過啦所以我們就通過這個案子好 通過這個案子 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1248].start |
36431.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[1248].end |
36446.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[1248].text |
接著我們現在開始審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院單位預算案請宣讀預算書及委員提案宣讀完畢後再進行協商請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[1249].start |
36449.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[1249].end |
36475.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[1249].text |
114年度行政院税入预算第二款罚款及赔偿收入第五项行政院无劣数第三款归备收入第四项行政院无劣数第四款财产收入第六项行政院427万元第一幕财产支息391万7千元第二幕废旧物资售价35万3千元第五款营业盈余及事业收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[1250].start |
36477.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[1250].end |
36494.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[1250].text |
第一項行政院兩千億兩千九百一四萬兩千元第七款其他收入第六項行政院一百一十五萬兩千元稅出部分第二款行政院主管第一項行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[1251].start |
36495.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[1251].end |
36518.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[1251].text |
15亿3364万6千元第一幕一般行政11亿0844万6千元第二幕施政及法治业务1488万5千元第三幕施政推展联系615万元第四幕联合服务业务3788万7千元第五幕灾害防救及国土安全1575万7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1252].start |
36520.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[1252].end |
36527.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[1252].text |
第六目性别平等业务1627万3000元第七目消保及食安业务1432万5000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1253].start |
36530.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[1253].end |
36539.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[1253].text |
第八幕 資訊管理6,899萬元第九幕 新聞傳播業務5,195萬9千元第十幕 人權及轉型正義1,315萬元第十一幕 個資保護委員會籌備業務1億2,151萬6千元第十二幕 一般建築及設備6,058萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1254].start |
36552.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[1254].end |
36576.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[1254].text |
第十三目第一預備金三百八十萬元 接續宣讀提案行政院稅出部分第一項行政院為第一至十三案 共計十三案第一目一般行政為第十四至第二十九案 共計十六案第二目施政及法制業務為三十至四十九案 共計二十案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1255].start |
36578.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[1255].end |
36595.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[1255].text |
第三幕市政推展聯繫為50至51案共計2案第四幕聯合服務業務為52至59案共計8案第五幕災害防救及國土安全為60至63案共計4案第六幕性別平等業務為64至72案共計9案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1256].start |
36599.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[1256].end |
36607.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[1256].text |
第七目消保及食安業務為73至82案共計10案第八目資訊管理為83至85案共計3案第九目新聞傳播業務為86至98案共計13案第十目人權及轉型正義為第99至106案共計8案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1257].start |
36621.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[1257].end |
36626.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[1257].text |
第十一幕各自保護委員會籌備業務為107至116案共計10案第十二幕第一班建築及設備為117至118案共計2案主決議部分為119至129案共計11案內容請委員參閱宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1258].start |
36647.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[1258].end |
36656.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[1258].text |
好 請問各位委員討論事項所列有關114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院單位預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1259].start |
36658.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[1259].end |
36675.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[1259].text |
全部保留送協商 請問有異議對不起 包括委員的提案還有我們之前談的組決議所以我們都不處理 全部一起是好嗎 對不起好 謝謝全部保留送協商好 那沒關係 來 有異議請表達我會這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[1260].start |
36679.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[1260].end |
36690.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[1260].text |
到這陣子到下午2點10分啦因為說實在是怎麼沒得審啦今年又來了,在這裡也陷很多人嘛也審很多,也黏住了,這不行那沒關係,我們現在我們現在來協商一下吧休息兩分鐘好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1261].start |
36707.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[1261].end |
36712.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[1261].text |
是協商還休息?協商就可以啊。我們現在開始協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1262].start |
36728.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[1262].end |
36729.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[1262].text |
一公屋 |
| transcript.whisperx[1263].start |
36758.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1263].end |
36762.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[1263].text |
可以用摩托車嗎?可以用摩托車 |
| transcript.whisperx[1264].start |
36775.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[1264].end |
36775.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[1264].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1265].start |
36817.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[1265].end |
36826.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[1265].text |
協商結果有關114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院的單位預算案全部保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[1266].start |
36830.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1266].end |
36848.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[1266].text |
这是协商结论那有关正式别税出预算随同机关别审查结果调整114年度中央政府总预算案分配由本会审查所有之公务预算均已审查完均 |
| transcript.whisperx[1267].start |
36849.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[1267].end |
36869.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[1267].text |
你據審查報告含送財政委員會提報院會討論院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由徐昭偉新穎補充說明本日議程處理完畢現在散會辛苦了 |