| IVOD_ID |
164358 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164358 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-20T09:50:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-20T10:03:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b84f843f5b6ac29ec9336e3c0e2d3d52383c966d97180d5d23a5392e6bceeeece5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃仁 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:50:25 - 10:03:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「潛艦國造原型艦海測執行現況及因應作為」，併請台灣國際造船股份有限公司董事長列席，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 有請國防部長還有海軍參謀長及海軍參事及台船董事長請部長 海軍參謀長還有台船董事長官員好部長好這邊比較嚴肅的一個問題就是海軍包含我們台船 瞞天過海欺騙了國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長 你感受怎麼樣你被瞞住了台船在過去裡面所發出來的新聞稿包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿到現在為什麼我們的海昆潛艦到現在你11月份都不敢保證而且你特別說對媒體說挑戰性非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
非常大是悲哀還是樂觀部長你回答一下科文委員報第一個就是說每週這個海軍都會海船都會來跟我報告這是第一點所以相關的這些面臨到的一些狀況他們都會跟我如實的說明這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.82 |
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93.74 |
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第二點我想現在我們的報告中已經說明了就是說沒有碰到技術的瓶頸但是有關這些裝備的進行調教需要給我們一些時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
116.812 |
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所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成只是說原來所設想的這些節點我們特別在測試的這個階段可能還需要更多的一點時間本席認同本席認同要確保安全再走下一步今天指出的騎乘的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
就要挑出來海軍必須要跟國人說明台船你們才幾月份從幾月份開始發布新聞稿對外其成又變而且可以如期的交件可是一而再再而三上次媒體問我就已經問了三個問題第一個是什麼問題就是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
174.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
扶航測試第二是潛水潛艦的測試還有深水潛艦的測試這個根本11月份根本沒有辦法交艦的你們還對外說謊瞞了國防部長部長不得不對外是具有相當大的挑戰曹部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
175.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
還有我們的三四你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理可是 淺見問題就是大在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你潛艦的測試深水的測試都沒有辦法等一下我再告訴你們按照國際條例裡面所測試的期程你們既然是6到7個月就可以了這個報告裡面到底是蠻天過海的告訴給國人欺騙國人嗎你們回答一下這個問題好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
委員好我是海軍參謀長那要跟委員凱切的說明的確當初我們在測試的六個月的時間安排的確是有過分的樂觀那實際要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個所以不要為了預算不要為了預算我們並沒有檔但是問題是海昆艦的原型艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
267.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
連一個建都沒有完成的時候後續的預算裡面我們要如何編對國人有什麼交代你們過去裡面媒體都在罵我們說我們是潛艦殺手結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛就是這個問題嘛我們不要騙了國人趕快預算編一編台船隨便亂七八糟的說話等一下台船我特別要點到你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
297.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們服務航的測試因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題所以通常只會使用一到四個禮拜但海昆池在階段已經超過了四個多月第二潛艦潛航的測試大約需要一到三個月第三深水潛艦測試由於風險高每一次深潛在周密的準備後 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
事後檢查也耗時通常要兩到六個月完成所有的海事包含行政作業耗時大約半年到一年但是原形件的時間通常會在一到兩年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
340.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我們按照過去我們的國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時間的長短的案例第一個澳大利亞的克林斯基約三年實際上長達七年第二日本的艙龍級約一年韓國的這個張文寶高三級約兩年印度 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
341.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
358.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
由一起的約一年到六個月德國212A約一年所以這一系測試你們雖然要六到七個月這個是欺騙國人啊台船你來回答一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
360.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
382.695 |
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跟委員報告一下我們手艘船 台船是很努力在趕工從建造的時候就開始所以這是為什麼我們在COVID-19疫情期間人員的交流在跟國際上或是國內人員的工作上面我們就是用趕工方式才沒有受到太大影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
383.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
408.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
後來二屋戰爭發生 供應業也受到影響我們也是用趕工的方式所以現在回答您問題在這個測試的階段我們也是盡量這樣做只是說因為有一些因素譬如說剛剛報告過的在廠商外國寄寫的時程的配額上面因為現在開始是不同的裝備之間互相的整合的部分所以不是單一裝備測試好就好因此如果發生問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
412.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
429.768 |
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要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼為了我們的預算趕快編出來你們好做事問題是我們是在監督預算要讓你們確實確保能夠把原型線做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
431.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
455.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
給國人個交代 後續見我們才給編預算但是今天的媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算剛剛我也特別有講了嘛我們要確保安全 我們一定要再走下一步但是我們要對國人要有交代你們台船今年的2月發表新聞稿表示今年4月會如期的海撤 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
456.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
海撤 這是你們說的 預計九月份完成海撤十一月份交線 也是你們說的表示認為台船海撤的時間大概需要六個月而已你們都沒按照國際標準 剛剛我也講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
502.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在國際級的標準裡面的裁電的這個潛艦都必須要嚴格執行而且期程你們都要規定的按照不是隨便講說你跟海軍跟我們國防部然後呢對我們的預算裡面再來編要求編結果編了之後呢你們根本原型艦都沒有辦法完成嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
503.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
報告委我們就像剛剛講的在建造的時候跟海設的時候一樣我們會估的比一般國外的時間快一點因為我們願意趕工的關係所以這個而且您看就像您的資料所顯示每一個國家他的時間也是長短不一所以這個是為什麼當時我們看這個還在這個最後這個建造階段我們看到事情是沒有太大的問題所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間這樣是沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
554.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那開始測試之後發現一些我想我這邊敬告包含海警我一定要敬告你們一下沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿不要為了預算的編列結果你發布新聞稿之後你們做不到我上個月上上個月媒體採訪我的時候我就提出這個測試的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
557.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
578.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
測試的問題絕對沒有辦法兩個月內完成11月份交件這是很明確的 連我一般老百姓都知道還騙你們自己本身 國防部 台船 竟然還騙國人這是一個非常嚴重的問題另外就是 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
601.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
還有我們的董事長關於我們整合在整合式的在台管理系統我們根據海星上週的新聞稿和國防部的今天的報告海昆線現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合在台管理系統的調教那一般而言整合式 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
602.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
621.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
在台管理系統的軟體在破崗測試中的吸破測試試驗得到結果後會做最後一次軟體更新和參數調整之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
623.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
652.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
讓海策發現的問題可以被準確歸因和附現這個時候會固定住整合是在台管理系統的軟體版本和參數為何在新聞稿今天報告都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗試而且還說增派軟體工程師皆同延長共同作業回答一下這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
654.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
682.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告IPMS這個系統它涉及的它是一個高度的自動化跟整合性的一個系統它涉及的傳上很多系統對遠端的遙控跟監視所以它從我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統針對訊號的格式數值跟正確性都要做確認還有包含它跟保護安全的設計都有關係所以我們一項一項的做測試然後單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的連測 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
683.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
712.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
整合式在台管理系統是隨時被調教的嗎被調整的嗎那如果在固定已經固定了就不能再做一個調整了所以問題在哪裡來 這個報告給我所以問題就在整合式的在台管理系統有嚴重的錯失 有嚴重的這個缺失這個報告給我什麼時候什麼時候把這個嚴重的錯失裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
713.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
715.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
要調整完成抱歉所有的IPMS系統的訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行那要花多少時間我們現在必須跟剛剛委員講的按照安全跟品質的考驗要花多少時間嘛這個是修改以後我們要編預算要對國人交代啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
742.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
768.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你不要說到時候我發布新聞稿幾月份就用好了那現在我問你要花多少時間現在就很明確的就是一個在台整合式在台管理系統有嚴重的這個做這個嚴重的這個問題那你要花三個月有辦法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
770.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
788.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跟委員報告那個我們整個的這個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍那後來是因為軟體還有一些需要缺改還需要一些調校好多久多久時間把這個報告給我好不好我們回去之後會把這個相關的一個報告然後把這個報告給我了解好謝謝謝謝在本席在這裡 |