| IVOD_ID |
164354 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164354 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-20T09:33:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-20T09:44:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b1e524fc6089b636a6d84cc432149c84b83c966d97180d5d2856507347698b5fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:33:10 - 09:44:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查
（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（二）國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例部分條文修正草案」案。
（八）委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
（九）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
（十）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
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好 謝謝主席 我們來有請教育部部長以及學術部的政事那也跟主席報告那個主席宣告的時間我一定都尊重那也希望官員回答問題的時候能夠比較流暢一點因為我問的問題其實都蠻具體的有時候在那邊隱隱啊啊啊或者是在上面整個人呆住完全沒有辦法回答 全部在浪費時間嘛這一點也再請召委一併斟酌 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員長三位好 我時間的關係不一一問首先從那個 旋序部開始警察人員人事條例總統修法公佈了以後我上一次請教說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
新法生效以後 現在我不是在講新法生效前退休了 新法生效以後法律已經生效 你們給人家退休的核定函就應該依照新法計算這個是法治國家的ABC嘛我那一天 外選序部的部長我問他說啊 你確定你給他們的函上面有依照新法計算的他跟我說有 他跟我說有 但問題是什麼問題是啊 我們警察同仁跟我 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
提出陳情的時候 我一向是實事求是我不會他們嘴巴跟我說 喂喂沒有欸你說會按照新法計算我們拿到的都還是按照舊法計算那我當然就跟他要那個函來看啊看上面到底是怎麼寫的啊結果我寫了 我拿來要來看了以後沒有錯啊你們現在給人家的還是按照舊法計算的所得替代率啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你們的部長怎麼會跟我說來來來看一下你確定給他們的函上面有依照新法計算思年節跟我說有 這怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.106 |
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138.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
現在到底按照舊法計算還按照新法計算我再強調一次喔不是以前舊的人你們系統要改變要時間到年底是法律生效以後申請退休的人法律生效以後申請退休的人就應該依照警察人員人事條例你們部長也跟我說有但是人家給我的函我看起來這個函也不是偽造變造的啦怎麼會出現這樣的差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我跟委員報告一下第一個是時間差的問題我們在7月30號跟內政部整個確定以後我們後來在8月以後的審定行我們全部都是曾經改過一版這個部分我們會送給委員來參考前面的部分是把它分成兩段所以我也承認一個寫在本函上面 一個是寫在互助上面這個部分 但是對它實質的影響都不會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你說對他實際不會有影響 那我就具體的問嘛他現在每個月領到的退休金是依照什麼計算的 新的還舊的目前因為新的部份要增加的部份是沒有預算的部份但是舊的部份絕對都是沒有啦 這個就回到我一開始的問題嘛國家沒有編預算會影響到公務人員公法上面的金錢債權嗎 不會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
216.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你行政處分就應該要依法做行政處分啊什麼時候我們國家的制度變成是依照行政院編的預算再做行政處分這不是很荒謬嗎任何簡單的啦 我講個最簡單的任何現在去考高考三級的人考到行政法序論都不可能出現這麼荒謬的答案我們現在國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
230.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對於公務人員 對於警消他們公法上面的金錢債權在做行政處分是依法做還是依預算做有預算就按照預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
沒有預算也沒有辦法現在考試院的立場是什麼行政院可以很政治但是考試院我們對考試院有一定程度的尊重啊怎麼考試院做事也會這樣我們不會這樣子做啦但現實上不是這樣做嗎我跟委員報告屬於基金該給的我們都會支付但是因為條例上面有規律那是供預算編列那我們就沒有我們這個是要編在內政部那邊所以我才問你嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你們現在是按照法律在做行政處分還是按照預算在做行政處分我們是按照法律在做行政處分對 那你們現在有按照法律在做行政處分嗎有嗎有啊 我們現在會做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
而且我跟委員報告 我們部裡面從部長到承辦同仁四萬多件我們比誰都希望趕快把它處理掉啊那是舊的嗎不是 新的啦新的還需要多久就跟委員報告過一樣到年底好 沒關係 我希望你年底前可以完成喔因為很多警察同仁啊 這個牽涉到他們實際上面的生活嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
294.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們說要尊重警消感謝他們的冒險犯案投入救災什麼事情都他們在做有事警察幹沒有事的時候幹警察然後搞到現在連他們依法應該獲得的保障都沒有辦法獲得實現我為什麼這個問題質詢三次啊因為有很多警察同仁跑來跟我澄清我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
347.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
選區部在你們職長範圍之內依法該做的趕快做到時候沒有編預算是行政院的問題那我們自然而然會請行政院負責接下來請教育部部長部長當初2017年提出教育人員退休改革的時候那個時候所得替代率每一年逐年的調降教育部的版本是分幾年調降十年十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
錯來我直接給你看這個是教育部當初行政院函請公立學校教職員退休輔具條例10年是後來立法委員提的版本行政院的版本是分幾年15年啊15年啊 我白紙黑字都寫在上面啊10年是立法委員的提案啊是段宜康他們提的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
398.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
行政院的版本是分15年部長你有看到嗎自己的業務要熟今天都已經要來這邊備詢了10年跟15年的差別是每一年多什麼 多0.5%所以difference我全部都做出來了這個是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那等於是什麼 等於是今天教育部的立場到底有改變沒有改變第二個最重要的你們在書面報告上面的數字啊說如果停侃的話50年會增加1600多億嗎沒有錯吧你們再去看一下選區部的報告選區部的報告是如果停侃的話5年會增加1400多億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
453.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
同一天喔 到這邊來報告喔一個教育部 一個學習部兩個數字都兜不起來這個作業齁 我跟你們講啊要再嚴謹一點啦我相信你有很多理由要解釋啊但是立法委員看到的官方報告怎麼行政院來的數字跟考試院來的數字就不一樣啊就不一樣啊五十年 不管是一千四百多億還是一千六百多億平均一年多少錢 就三十億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
482.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我這樣說沒有錯吧 部長一年三十億喔一年三十億在我們目前中央政府總預算裡面是什麼概念每一年我們的政府亂花浪費貪腐給廠商惡搞走的有幾個三十億啊有幾個三十億啊結果面對這些基層的老師苛刻的不得了我們政府自己的貪腐自己的浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
511.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
給廠商胡搞瞎搞我再講一次啦一年有幾個30億我先不講這件事情啦我先從最基本的開始講去年的時候我參加一個記者會記者會全教總說針對有關於教師的撥補要採10年方案不要採15年方案那時候還有民進黨的立委一起參加喔一起參加說我一定會建議行政院從善如流 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
明年編制115年預算就應該採取10年撥補的方案來 我現在看預算書今年是10年撥補還是15年撥補今年是10年撥補還是20年撥補是採哪一個方案 10年還20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告 部裡面我們是分10年撥補但是最終是以20年的方式來進行那所以什麼 去年跟錢教崇一起開記者會在那邊委託人 話隨便講一講說要10年撥補 結果出來預算書還是20年撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
554.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
583.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
教育部認為應該10年撥補還是20年撥補按照你剛剛的說法是10年撥補嘛到行政院 卓榮泰決定20年撥補部長有沒有跟他據理力爭部長你有沒有跟卓榮泰據理力爭還是卓榮泰決定了你鼻子摸一摸算了我還是就聽院長的來 請教部長我們也確實有對這個撥補也做了一些表達跟卓榮泰表達嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
584.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
610.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有建議那因為整個從整體的一個政府的一個預算跟這個有一個條例等於說我們所有的退休裡邊所有的東西都是政府到最後他一定會會來這個最後的一個保證責任我想這也是整體考量到這個所以這跟我們在討論的事情有差嗎因為你現在在討論的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
612.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
640.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
啊 如果教師停凱 未來每年會多30億來 我來看看 10年撥補跟20年撥補最終差了多少錢最終差了750億啊奇怪 10年撥補可以幫我們所有的納稅人節省750億你們不慘一定要20年撥補那我看不懂啦然後你現在在計較一年30億的我完全看不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
641.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
654.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
做出的承諾不履行 採取的方案多花納稅人750億這是什麼施政 這是什麼治理 這是什麼數學這是什麼叫幫納稅人省錢 我完全看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
656.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
677.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我完全看不懂最後一句話針對這一次公教人員是不是砍到2025年要繼續砍下去還是要停止下來反映現在他們實際生活的需要以及年金改革告一個段落台灣民眾黨黨團會有非常明確的立場跟態度好 謝謝 |