| IVOD_ID |
16428 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16428 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期第15次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第15次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-27T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-27T18:16:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
09:46:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609531f799a552fe9e49b5fa2f296a935346d1319bf84c916824b1ac807f2f102b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第15次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院司法及法制委員會報告併案審查委員廖偉翔等18人、委員楊瓊瓔等21人分別擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」、委員林月琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」、委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」及委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案等27案。 二、12月27日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、12月31日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 18:16:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1810.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1817.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會我們現在進行國事論壇每位委員發言三分鐘首先我們請洪孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1832.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1848.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主席各位同仁才化從分配縣市更發展孟楷身為新北市第一選區的立法委員從上任的第一天我就念茲在茲希望能夠為縣市多爭取更多的預算我常在地方的時候都跟我們所有鄉親講 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1849.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1868.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們不分黨派朝野共同努力只要能夠在中央多爭取一塊錢多爭取一分錢回到地方用的都是我們地方的建設都是我們地方的教育都是我們地方的發展都是我們地方的未來這樣子的一個想法跟目標我們應該共同支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1868.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1889.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
上個禮拜財務收支劃分法經過25年終於能夠修法三讀通過其實這在過去不管是民進黨在野的時候有類似一樣的主張2012年民進黨黨中央煞有其事黨主席跟6個縣市長一致排開要求重新修正財務收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1890.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1908.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
2015年潘孟安當縣長的時候蔡英文總統候選人前往屏東的時候潘孟安直言要修財政收支劃分法2018年當賴清德擔任行政院長的時候甚至直接提出說要有行政院的財務收支劃分法的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1908.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1925.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
當然2018年之後賴清德下台無疾而終但我們要講的是財務收支劃分法的精神跟概念就是要讓過去中央集權集錢的狀況能夠平均用公視更加分配給地方22每一個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1927.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1954.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以這是能夠靠公事而不用靠人事不用看顏色來說話不用因為今天縣市跟你中央有沒有同樣一個政黨執政而分配比例大小眼現在我們看到過去這個禮拜亂象橫出不管是行政院院長總統他也講是說未來地方要獨自面臨風災這樣子的一個講法完全可笑災害防救法明明就有講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1955.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1970.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
中央是主管災害的相關機關地方政府共同配合中央地方一條心面臨未來有可能的任何風災挑戰但絕對不是一個一刀就這樣劃下來再來我們要講是說側翼梗圖橫發講說會 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1973.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1990.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
拖累其他的相關支出如果說真的有法定相關的明文規定的話根本不會有影響因為這個就是中央政府的職權而更重要的是中央稅率有招達3兆元以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1990.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2015.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
難道這些中央政府不能妥善的運用嗎最後我們更要說看到民進黨執政的縣市現在突然講出來說分配不公那我們要請教當初在第9屆、第10屆跟第11屆修法的時候你們的版本在哪裡真的不要站著說話不腰疼好好的為全民來努力我們共同支持各縣市均衡發展謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2020.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2023.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
謝謝洪孟楷委員發言接下來請徐宇貞委員發言、羅志強委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2041.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2045.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
財政收支劃分法歷經25年的修法討論終於在上週五完成了三讀這次劃時代的里程碑具重大的歷史意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2060.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2081.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
中央集權又集錢的問題一直為各界所詬病地方的首長都曾疾呼修正裁劃法而民進黨執政期間更是擺爛不作為就是要把錢抓在手上這次國民黨所提出的修正版本將裁劃法修正由中央原來的75%比25%修正到65%比25%這一個部分只是希望為國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2089.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2116.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
總共為各縣市爭取了3753億可以打破垂直失衡的現象橫向分配不均的問題嚴重的問題反觀民進黨為了杯葛修法集體破窗霸佔一場號召青鳥衝撞立法院最可笑的是民進黨連修正版本也不提若依照民進黨和賴清德這種擺爛不作為的做法各縣市政府仍要繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2117.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2135.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
喊窮過苦日子縣市政府的建設經費也無著落區域發展失衡的問題也更加嚴重當時在擔任股長賴清德總統當時在擔任台南市長的時候他也一直疾呼說才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2135.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2163.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
一定要修過而且要有非過不可的決心現在國民黨幫賴清德總統辦到了請賴清德總統要好好的正視這個問題不要再擺爛而且民意超過八成贊成修正才化法用以提升地方財政自主權加速地方的發展修法過程只有民進黨在反對民進黨發現修法走向不符合自己的期待上從總統府、行政院、各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2164.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2192.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
夏至地方民代1450網軍側翼拿著假資料造謠抹黑恐嚇人民行政院說財化法修正會剝奪人民的社福經費、醫療經費、教育經費、軍事預算、農業補助、興建社宅等法定預算這跟國會改革操作人民恐懼的手法如出一策事實上是一般性的補助款不能減少依法律義務支出的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2193.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2198.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
也無法刪減這些經費不只沒有被擋更是不可能被擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2200.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2222.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
最重要的是《財化法》全面提高所有地方政府的收入在經濟發展、地方建設上絕對有正面的效果我國過去三年的稅收超徵了1兆3400億今年更超徵5100億只要拿其中的3753億就能夠把這個《財化法》今年所增加的3753億還給地方謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2228.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2254.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝徐宇珍委員的發言接下來我們請羅志強委員發言、楊瓊瓔委員請準備尊敬的韓國瑜院長還有全台灣人民台灣十年你滿意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2256.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2261.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
民進黨執政你滿意嗎?新國會智庫針對九大內政問題發布最新民調九大指標民進黨全部死當詐騙橫行有88.2%的台灣民眾認為詐騙比10年前嚴重比10年前減少的只有2.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2283.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2291.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
治安敗壞有41.6%的民眾認為治安更壞只有24.4%的人認為治安變好空氣惡化有61.3%的人認為空氣惡化只有9.3%的人認為空氣變好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2307.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2312.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
缺電嚴重有55.3%的人認為台灣缺電認為沒有缺電的只有37戰爭迫近認為戰爭可能性增加的有55.9%只有16.3%認為戰爭機率減少政治撕裂 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2332.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2344.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
認為現在政治更對立的是74.8%認為政治變得和諧的只有10.2%政府貪腐有43.9%的民眾認為政府不清廉只有26.8%的人認為政府變清廉司法不公 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2355.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2364.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
認為司法更不值得信任的有55.5%認為更值得信任只有22.5%毒品氾濫認為比10年前毒品更氾濫65.1%比10年前毒品減少只有8.3%看到這個九大指標人民對民進黨全部死當 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2381.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2399.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我不知道身為總統的賴清德你作何感想事實上民進黨上台曾給大家非常美麗的許諾要改變人民的生活但是這攸關內政的九大指標竟然全部倒退 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2400.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2427.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
而且根據新國會智庫的民調幾乎每一項在交叉分析當中連民進黨的支持者都有很多是過半認為我們台灣變得更糟糕了這麼多該做該改善的問題只看到民進黨在拼政治、拼戒嚴鄭重地警告民進黨再被人民當下去最後被當的就是賴清德謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2431.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2434.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝羅志強委員的發言接下來請楊瓊瓔委員發言、張志倫委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2454.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2480.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝親愛的院會主席、韓院長、各位同仁、新聞界的朋友楊瓊瓔發言過去醫師法修法出現附帶決議涉放寬國外牙醫師、牙醫系的學生回台實行名額引發了頗頗醫師的爭議而我要請大家來關注近日衛福部又用幾乎是黑箱來修改醫師法施行系者修正案放寬了頗頗考 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2482.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2503.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一事的資格讓爭議質疑再度上演過去婆婆一事的爭議賴清德總統在13日宣誓針對國外學歷的審查會更加的嚴格但是衛務部這一次的一個修正卻是大開後門大肆放水讓總統承諾跳票原本 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2504.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2531.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
能夠回來考照政府認可的國外畢業學歷僅有教育部列入名單的學校可以可是這一次新細則卻放寬當地國政府學校全責機關或其認定的教育評鑑團體認可的也都可以讓任何品質的大學、國際專班或者網路課程的學生都可能獲得資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2533.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2552.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
而原本國外遠距教學是不被認可的但是在這一次的施行細則當中也放寬對於像COVID-19期間以及重大變故才遠距教學者都可以認可在台灣即使碰到COVID-19無法實作課程的亞裔學生都會嚴閉 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2554.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2580.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
一直到完成10座課程才能畢業台灣有如此高標準的確保醫療品質而政府卻要放寬海外生這不是良身定做這是什麼才叫良身定做原本議界就已經質疑海外生的資格當中臨床實習是不能見習用看的不是實際操作實習怎麼能夠保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2582.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2605.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
醫療技術的學習呢特別對亞裔來說但是衛福部他不改就是不改市民記者當中更明確的以106年1月1號以後的海外生也就是不只未來要放寬衛福部還貼心的為過去被限制的學生大開方便之門這真的沒有為特定的利益團體考量嗎賴清哲總統、卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2608.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2613.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
以及邱部長請問你們是要光速的跳票嗎還是扛不住壓力讓自己被打臉11月24號抗議團體上街頭衛福部25日就公布了新細則27號生效28號是不是就大開審查會議來放水呢所以我要說絕對不要拿國人的醫療教學品質以及就醫權利來開玩笑我主張撤銷新細則 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2643.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2643.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2663.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2667.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
院長、各位同仁、各位媒體朋友、大家早安、大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2668.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2696.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本週二的院會志倫與本黨同志一同表決司法院正副院長及大法官人事案拒絕廢死大法官為全民守住公平正義目前有八成民眾反對廢死志倫謹記人民的托付將大法官人選全數否決以此呼籲政府正視民意別再提出不適任的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2697.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2714.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這次的投票值得國人注意的是民進黨團對劉靜怡投下不同意票還祭出黨紀任何民進黨的立委投票給劉靜怡就是開除黨籍這件事情看似滑稽但骨子裡卻是非常嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2715.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2730.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
令人感到不可思議的是執政黨的立委居然不支持賴總統所提名的人選可見執政黨把大法官的提名當作兒戲如果民進黨團支持劉靜怡就要開除黨籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2731.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2743.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那提名劉靜怡的賴總統不用開除黨籍嗎嚴重的是賴總統的提名小組跟民進黨的立法院黨團沒有溝通好居然無法提出讓黨團一致支持的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2748.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2770.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
而劉靜怡不被支持的原因更是令人冒冷汗只是因為她批評過民進黨罵過蔡英文、立委王逸川等人本席想請問對民進黨而言只有綠色忠誠擺第一司法獨立都是假的嗎?南外國會改革法案在憲法法庭幾乎都判違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2773.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2794.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
因為都是政治判決只問立場不問專業只有顏色沒有是非本席期盼國人藉此機會看看民進黨的真面目民進黨年裡只有政黨利益完全沒有守護中華民國憲法的真心 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2795.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2810.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
大法官是中華民國憲法的守護者不是民進黨鞏固利益中心的守護者大法官應秉持專業以全民為念效忠中華民國憲法而不效忠某一特定政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2811.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2827.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
最後本席呼籲賴總統盡速重新提名專業公正的大法官人選不要再把大法官提名當作兒戲更不應該把大法官人選當作政治鬥爭的工具以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
5409.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
5423.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
報告議員會,我們現在繼續開會,請秘書長報告出席人數報告議員會,出席委員53人,已足法定人數現在開會我們進行報告事項,請秘書長宣讀第二會期第14次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
5428.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
5434.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
編讀立法院第11屆第2會期第14次會議事由：時間中華民國113年12月20日上午11時41分至下午11時59分12月24日上午9時至12時5分下午20時30分至53分地點本院議場出席委員、政委員天才等113人 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
5449.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
5474.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
主席院長韓國瑜、副院長江啟臣報告事項第一案宣讀本院第11屆第2會期第13次會議適度決定、確定、執行事項假行政委員答案部分一件以本院委員執行部分三件討論事項第一案之四案決議通過第五案決議下次會議進行管論討論之發言同意選擇行政事項決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
5476.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
5491.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
一、張文貞不同意為司法院大法官並為院長二、姚立民不同意為司法院大法官並為副院長三、何賴傑、陳韻才、王碧芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
5493.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
5503.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
廖烏特、劉靜儀等五位均不同意為司法院大法官其他事項依依國民黨黨團提議面跟議程一項依依通過臺灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團分別提議延長開會時間一案依依通過三、113年12月18日朝野黨團審商結論一項四、113年12月24日朝野黨團審商結論三項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
5521.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
5546.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
報院會針對第二會期第14會議意思錄並無委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們現在做以下決定第二會期第14會議意思錄我們就確定報院會現有國民黨團提議未配合協商結論本日院會於下午5點半休息報告事項第二案至101案均退回程序委員會重新提出請問針對國民黨黨團的提議有無任何 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
5551.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
5560.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
反對好我們現在有異議好我們有異議我們就進行表決對我們進行表決我們現在按鈴7分鐘請議事人員分發表決卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
5988.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
5999.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
報告委員會請問表決卡是不是都有拿到請問有沒有簽到一定要記得簽到好我們現在針對國民黨黨團提議進行表決現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘贊成國民黨黨團提議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
6087.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
6097.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
報告院會報告表決結果出席104位贊成57位反對47位贊成者多數國民黨黨團提議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
6110.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
6111.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
6133.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
6147.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
諮詢事項甲行政院答覆部分行政院函送本院羅委員志強所聽諮詢之書面答覆共1件以本院委員諮詢部分本院羅委員志強等向行政院提出諮詢共14件宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
6149.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
6160.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
報告委員會我們在進行討論事項之前我們先處理變更議程之提議並截止收案我們依提案先後順序處理現在處理台灣民眾黨黨團提議變更議程共議案請議事人員宣讀提議內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
6165.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
6167.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
請問院會對本案有無異議面議我們就通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
6193.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
6216.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們現在繼續處理國民黨團提變更議程共七案我們先處理第一案請議事人員宣讀題內容本院國民黨黨團針對第11屆第2會期第15次會議一傳討論事項提議僅限列下表所列順序並照表列通過是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢請問議院會對本案有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
6221.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
6229.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
請問院會對本案有異、沒有異議我們本案通過我們現在處理國民黨團提議變更議程第二案請議事人員宣讀題內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
6231.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
6251.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
本院國民黨黨團針對本第15次會議建請將委員盧明哲等17人、委員萬美玲等17人、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及委員葉元芝等20人分別擬具《行政院組織法》第3條條文修正草案自司法及法制委會抽出禁覆二讀並與相關提案併案協商是否有當進行公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
6252.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
6261.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
全院會對本案有異議沒有異議本案通過我們現在處理國民黨團體變更議程第三案請議事人員宣讀題內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
6262.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
6285.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
本院國民黨黨團：針對本地15次會議：建請鄉委員林倩琦等21人擬具、運動部全民運動署組織法草案、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具、體育及運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案、自司法及法制、教育及文化兩位委員會抽出禁風二讀：並與相關提案並且商討是否有當進行公決學院會對本案有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
6289.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
6316.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
對本案有無異、無異我們通過本案照案通過我們處理國民黨團辯論議程第4案請議事委員宣讀第一內容本院國民黨黨團針對本第15次會議建計將委員楊瓊翔等21人、委員洪孟楷等16人分別擬具《國家運動產業發展重新設置條例草案》自司法及法制、教育及文化兩委會措出驚風二讀並與相關提案並按協商是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢全院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
6317.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
6322.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
對本案沒有異議本案照案通過我們現在處理國民黨團體變更議程第5案請議事人員宣讀題內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
6327.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
6350.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
本院國民黨黨團針對本地15次會議建請將委員李倩琦等23人擬具、我鄉運動訓練中心設置條例部分條文修憲草案、委員洪孟楷等16人擬具我鄉運動訓練中心設置條例修憲草案、自司法及法制教育及文化兩委會抽出禁服二讀並與江關定安、兵安協商、市府遊盪進行公決宣讀完畢全院會對本案有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
6352.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
6355.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
沒有異議本案通過我們現在處理國民黨團體變更議程第6案請議事員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
6358.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
6386.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
本院國民黨黨團針對本第15次會議堅請前委員林倩琦等21人、委員洪孟楷等16人分別擬具《國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案》自司法及法制教育及文化聯會委員會籌書盡覆二讀並與相關提案並按協商是否有道進行公決宣讀完畢請問院會對本案有無異議沒有異議本案稍晚通過我們現在處理國民黨團提辯跟議程第7案其議事人員宣讀提內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
6387.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
6415.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
本院國民黨黨團,針對本第15次會議,建議將委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具《教育部組織法》第二條及第五條條文修正草案,自司法及法制、教育及文化聯會委員會抽出禁風二讀,並與相關提案平安協商,是否有當進行公決?宣讀完畢請問院會對本案有異議?沒有異議本案照案通過報告院會,我們現在處理民進黨團體變更議程共三案我們先進行第一案,請議事人員宣讀第一內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
6416.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
6437.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
本院民進黨黨團擬請委員會將如附表所列《行政院組織法》第3條條文修正草案均自司法及法制委會抽出驚風惡毒並與相關提案併案學商宣讀完畢請委員會對本案有異議沒有異議本案照案通過我們現在處理民進黨團提辯跟議程第二案請議事人員宣讀題內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
6438.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
6458.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
本院民進黨黨團擬起願會將如附表所列中央行政機關組織基準法各修正草案均自司法及法制委員會抽出禁服惡毒並與相關提案併案協商宣讀完畢請願會對本案有異議、沒有異議本案照案通過我們現在處理民進黨團提變更議程第三案請議事人員宣讀題內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
6459.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
6483.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
本院民進黨黨團擬起用會將委員吳麗華等16人擬具、運動部組織法草案、自司法及法制教育及文化兩委員會處署經負二讀並與相關提案平安協商宣讀完畢全院會對本案有異議、沒有異議本案照案通過報院會,我們辯論議程均已經處理完畢依本次會議討論事項依朝野協商結論以及國民黨黨團提議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
6492.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
6509.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
報告院會我們現在休息請各黨團幹部到一場後場的主席休息室我們進行溝通另外王世堅委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致我們列入公報紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
7840.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
7858.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
法院會議我們現在繼續開會現在進行討論事項第一案《揭弊者保護法草案》本案經第二會期第14會議決議我們下次會議進行廣泛討論之發言現在依黨團共識以推派委員進行發言首先請黃國昌委員發言院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
7869.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
7893.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
本院委員經過了超過2700天的等待本院今天終於有機會在院會處理公益揭弊者保護法保護隨少人是當代民主法治國家早已成為國際社會共通的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
7895.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
7920.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
從聯合國反貪腐公約到OECD所有國家的守則一致要求為了要讓揭弊的人不用擔心遭受清算、遭受報復勇於吹哨、勇於揭弊不論公部門還是私部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
7921.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
7948.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
吹哨者都應該受到保護這也是我國在兩次聯合國反貪腐公約國家報告我們請了國際審查專家來到台灣進行審查所做的結論民進黨政府也曾經跟台灣社會莊嚴的承諾過 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
7950.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
7973.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他們要推動吹哨者保護法但是2700多天的日子過去了我們還看到的是不斷的演繹、不斷的推諉、不斷的阻礙這一步在當代法治文明國家當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
7975.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
8001.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
早已被視為普遍接受準則的法律在台灣遲遲沒有辦法通過台灣民眾黨黨團在2024年大選的時候無論是我們的主席柯文哲還是我們所有的不分區委員在競選的時候我們跟台灣公民社會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
8003.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
8029.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
國益揭弊者保護法將會是台灣民眾黨重中之重最優先要推動的法案今天終於有機會排到院會審查台灣民眾黨的立場我們除了希望保護公部門的吹哨者我們也希望保護私部門的吹哨者 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
8030.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
8051.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
為了避免一開始對中小企業造成過大的衝擊我們也排除了中小企業我們相信這部法案三讀的通過將會為我國吹哨者的保護寫下歷史的里程碑敬請各位委員支持謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員的發言接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
8073.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
8099.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
主席、各位在場的委員還有我們各位媒體朋友其實剛剛黃國昌委員一直提到說這十幾年整部的一個公益揭弊法案等待了2700天其實這是不對的不是等待2700天這個在101年整個中國國民黨執政的時候連政署就提出立法的一個研究如果真正要算的話到現在其實是4700天 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
8102.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
8130.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們在司法法制委員會七個版本然後呢在禮拜二國民黨台灣民眾黨還有民主進步黨在提出三個修正動議在兩個再修正動議然後在今天呢我們看到了又有新的動議出來在禮拜二呢再修正動議裡面呢又有對針對再修正動議的一個更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
8131.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
8159.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
其實各位朋友各位在場的同仁你把它看一看這整部法令裡面呢我們光在第一條裡面我們所看到的就是所謂的公益揭弊那如果按照台灣民眾黨所提出來的呢今天講的是揭弊者法案台灣民眾黨提出來的是公益揭弊民主進步黨提出來也是公益揭弊中國國民黨提出來的各黨團跟各別委員又是揭弊者光名稱第一條我們就搞不定 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
8161.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
8174.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我要提出來的就是說民進黨在我們在多數的時候針對這一部的一個法案我們也非常在意在野黨的看法還有社會各界的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
8176.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
8196.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
在司法法制委員會在討論的時候我們也看到了到底司部門要不要放進來98%將近99%的中小企業如果我們把它放到我們整個公益揭弊者法案裡面把它也放進去的話衝擊會有多大所以在司法法制委員會裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
8198.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
8219.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
林世民委員、吳宗憲委員我們私底下我甚至跟黃國昌委員我們大家都討論過對私部門衝擊到底會不會過大國民黨想下車啊我說很好啊下車是好事啊我看台灣民眾黨今天所提出來的所謂的在整個政府部門所控制的20%還有這個整個資本額是10收資本額是1億那這個範圍到底會有多大衝擊會有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
8227.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
8242.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
各位在場的委員你知道嗎沒有啊沒有人知道範圍會有多大啊所以我反而會覺得啊與其今天啊快速啊去把整個揭弊者這一部法案草率的讓他去通過啊本席覺得岐起以為不可啊為什麼整部公益揭弊有它的價值民主進步黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
8254.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
8258.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
既然我們在第9屆提出來第10屆也具審 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
8284.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
8309.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言接下來陳素月委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致我們列入公報記錄報言會現在在議場二樓旁聽的來自台北市新觀念教育發展協會歡迎大家來立法院謝謝歡迎歡迎我們掌聲歡迎接下來我們請登記第三位洪孟楷委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
8318.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
8332.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
主席各位同仁先進在場的旁觀的所有好朋友以及台灣2350萬人今天討論吹哨者保護法非常重要我們先講過去到現在台灣社會都有相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
8334.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
8356.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
呃...爭議的事件尤其是在疫情期間不管是疫苗的採購不管是快篩的一個採購我們也都看到都有許多的爭議狀況而當時大家也都在講如果說有所謂的吹哨者保護法也許可以防範於未來也許能夠讓內部先來做一個吹哨先來做一個爆料先來做一個揭發這事關2350萬人我們共同的福祉 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
8360.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
8378.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以今天在場我們大家應該要推動的是我們要訂立這樣的一個法案來保護全民的權益我先給大家念一段話這也是剛剛執政黨的委員所講但是我們真的沒有辦法想像執政黨委員為什麼會時空背景環境持續的搖擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
8380.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
8403.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
之前2018年民進黨政府法務部有提出來說公部門的弊端跟私企業的不法行為難一分為二而揭弊者跟被揭弊者身份關係亦難以非單一法例可以涵掛為了避免產生公司部門揭弊者權益的落差所以應該用專法一併規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
8406.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
8423.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
2018年民進黨當時由法務部提出來的揭弊者草案就是要求公司部門一體但之後因為爭議太大因為討論過多而就無疾而終但是該不該推動該推動因此我們在第10屆的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
8424.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
8447.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
國民黨團、民進黨團、民眾黨團、時代力量黨團四黨團的委員也都有提出相關的版本但是行政部門遲遲沒有提供版本以至於第10屆我們沒有辦法正式進入修法的階段到今年第11屆了我們也一直在請教行政部門什麼時候能夠把你的《揭弊者保護法草案》給拿出來沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
8449.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
8464.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
在司法法制委員會吳宗憲委員擔任召委的時候很負責任的我們包括逐條的審查包括討論包括質詢而更重要的是在逐條審查的時候行政部門沒有任何的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
8465.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
8485.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好 終於千呼萬喚使出來啊民進黨團在最後一刻上禮拜五終於有一個再修正動議的版本也拿出來但我們要講 如果說可以在最後一刻拿出來為什麼之前委員會的討論為什麼之前協商的時候不拿出來大家共同來討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
8486.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
8502.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
國民黨團負責任也在吳宗憲召委在提出再修正動議我們也認為公部門可以先行但是應該要有時間來去評估判斷考量私部門繼續納入的可能性這個是我們在今天立法的一個宗旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
8524.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
8527.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
謝謝洪孟楷委員的發言接下來請吳秉瑞委員發言、吳思瑤委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
8551.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
8565.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
主席、各位同仁我在這裡陳述先要講我們這一屆第11屆立委在立法程序上有一些法律立法的程序完全沒有遵照這個應有的程序來 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
8566.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
8589.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我把它這個定義叫做偷襲式的立法譬如剛剛鍾惠雄委員講這個法案到了禮拜二到今天總共多少版本現在在場要表決的委員根本就不知道這個版本沒有好好協商更不要講上次剛通過的這個三大惡法還有第一會期所通過的這個擴權法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
8591.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
8606.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
都是相同的方式委員會或是不討論或是拿一個版本在那邊呼嚨然後進到要二讀的時候要表決之前才突然間拿出一個新的版本偷襲所有在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
8608.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
8637.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
的委員讓這些委員根本就不知道什麼內容的狀況下就用多數的票來碾壓然後就來通過我舉一個例子憲法法庭的訴訟法憲法訴訟法居然沒有讓司法院表達過任何意見然後就要適用在人家的身上然後是最後要表決的時候臨時拿出來的版本然後再拿出來之後影印的紙還是熱熱的就要表決通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
8639.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
8656.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這我認為叫做偷襲式的立法不用笑啦民事訴訟法洛永江老師講的突襲性的裁判是指原告、被告在法庭提出的東西法院都不採納自己找一個理由去下判決所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
8656.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
8674.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
至於勝訴敗訴,取決於法官的心理,跟當事人的訴訟攻擊無關你這樣對比之下,我們立法院用這種偷襲式的立法,不是雙腦的狀況嗎?我們在場的委員有瞭解我們要表決的東西是什麼嗎?有參與討論過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
8677.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
8692.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好歹你也讓要適用法律的行政機關還有要讓將來要這個跟這個有相關的這一些立法委員了解的有一個好好能夠了解能夠溝通的機會溝通完整之下再來立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
8693.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
8720.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
另外我再提醒一件事情我們今天要弄這個公益揭弊者的這個法律大家記不記得去年今年年初要選舉的去年整個競選期間非常多的民眾抗議說你們在交通違規的舉例上准許照相就可以檢取結果讓檢取案件滿天飛最多一個人一個人一年檢取兩萬多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
8722.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
8735.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
鬧得禍害社立法讓我的人民在這邊痛苦不堪所以後來有限縮哪一些嚴重違規可以檢舉哪一些不可以我覺得這個真是要慎重考慮今天這個鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
8754.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
8758.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
謝謝吳秉瑞委員發言接下來我們請吳思瑤委員發言主席各位同仁到底是誰延宕了《揭弊者保護法》的立法剛剛莊惠雄委員已經還原了時序早在馬英九執政101年就要啟動但是沒有下文 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
8779.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
8805.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
民主進步黨蔡英文總統2017年的司改國事會議上就明確的決議定定揭弊者保護法民進黨會持續努力但是要匯聚充足的社會共識我們要讓所有的揭弊者可以安心吹哨法律來做扣刷從過去到現在民進黨沒有放棄努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
8806.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
8832.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
但是剛剛吳秉瑞委員所說的這個會期的偷襲式立法確實讓人非常的感慨沒想到三大惡法之後揭弊者保護法我們認為這相對比較沒有政治的對抗但是居然依舊走上了這種偷襲式的立法以及程序不正義的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
8834.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
8839.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我手上拿著的是民主進步黨團針對揭弊者保護法透過委員會的討論、透過黃國昌召集的黨團協商之後我們負責任地提出民進黨團的總整意見19個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
8853.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
8874.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們的這個版本原定是要在黨團協商之後的下一個步驟就是韓國瑜院長主持的朝野協商我們希望匯聚了大家在修法期間的共識負責任地提出更嚴謹的精進條文但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
8876.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
8902.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
韓院長再一次示範了什麼叫國會的自我閹割自我沒收揭弊者保護法並沒有循程序舉行韓院長應當召集的朝野協商也因此民進黨團的版本沒有辦法完整的在協商當中提出來民進黨版兩個非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
8903.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
8907.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
條文入法也就是對於無辜受害的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
8908.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
8937.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
被應該是說揭弊者分兩種有一種確實是良善的揭弊者但是另外一種他具有個人利益導向的惡意揭弊者應當也要予以入法應受法律的制裁也就是剛剛吳秉瑞委員所說的如果這個法案不夠完備是不是變相鼓勵了檢舉達人或是機關內部的黑函文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
8938.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
8949.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
民進黨的第二個主張公私分流公部門先行不要讓無限上綱的私部門受到不夠完備的制度配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
8988.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
9013.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
謝謝吳思堯委員的發言報告委員會廣放討論推派委員之發言均已發言完畢我們依照協商的結論本案僅宣讀院會所收再修正動議其餘均列入公報記錄名稱及各條文處理時我們依序進行表決如果其中有任何一案通過我們即不再處理其他案我們現在進行逐條討論請宣讀名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
9016.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
9032.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議名稱國民黨黨團再修正動議名稱公益揭弊者保護法民進黨黨團再修正動議名稱揭弊者保護法宣讀完畢我們現在首先請莊瑞雄委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
9050.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
9075.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
主席、各位在場的委員大家看第一條每一個政黨所提出來的台灣民眾黨、中國國民黨還有民主進步黨還有國民黨個別的委員你去把它看一看個別的委員提出來跟黨團不一樣但是我來看第一條其實我看國民黨剛剛的委員的發言是邏輯錯亂、胡說八道 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
9079.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
9092.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
談到公部門也談到私部門其實這一部整個公益的揭弊對各政黨來看我相信大家都肯認這一部法律的一個價值肯認這一部法律的一個理念但問題是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
9093.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
9112.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們如何來在整個法律的一個修訂的時候讓整個法律通過以後對不管是公部門它的耐受力會比較強那我們說OK那這個讓公部門先行但是私部門這個企業尤其是中小企業的部分到底衝擊會有多大各個黨團評估過了嗎各位在場的委員你真的知道嗎我在司法法制委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
9123.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
9143.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
王國昌委員他算是有準備的林世民委員想法幾乎大家都是一致的但重點是大家肯認的時候我們是不是應該更細緻的把這個部分來好好的做一個評估啊這一部法令不是誰跟誰在競爭不是各個政黨在競爭大家肯認這樣的一個價值比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
9145.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
9161.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
在第一條裡面你到底是要公部門先行你的範圍裡面或者是你要公部門加國營事業或者是你公部門加國營事業再加私部門或者說公部門加國營事業加一部分的私部門有沒有討論過沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
9164.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
9174.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
再修正義就又拿出來了也許台灣民眾黨認為說資本額或出資額達到一億以上就是了這個就對於私企業就衝擊已經大量的減低了是當然減低了那減低多少範圍還是有多大大家也是不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
9185.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
9193.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我在司法法制委員會裡面啊我就鼓動說中國國民黨你們都被黃國昌給騙啦我們公部門先行啦沒關係啦我們像你們15個官司啊民進黨本來就不會貪污啊你們國民黨貪污慣失啊剛好公部門先行這個生活過了國民黨就一塊兒在那裡死我 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
9204.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
9221.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
但是打攤是全民共同的期待可是對私部門的你這個衝擊開什麼玩笑啊你同業的惡性競爭、營業秘密的一個保護、商業的一個損失甚至於你整個上市公司股價的一個下跌這個難以估計 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
9222.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
9236.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以我再次提出來就是說這一部法令不是各政黨在競爭大家都知道它是有價值的民主進步黨在多數的時候沒有通過那是我們希望來惠及更多社會的在這個地方而已就是呢我們看提出這十多個是一個版本在說公益在說在說公益還有在說不公益裡面的一個章章提出來以後我都不想收回你怎麼打我 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
9262.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
9262.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
陳玉珍議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
9274.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
9289.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我剛剛聽吳秉偉人跟吳世耀委員在這邊講所謂的偷襲式立法因為這一次的裁判法本期是擔任召委不巧我也是擔任過司法委員的召委審這個揭弊者這個法令還有擔任過這個內政委會的召委審這個公準聯選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
9291.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
9318.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我要跟大家講什麼叫做偷襲勢力法我記得112年我在擔任召委的時候我們在審這個選罷法審了相當的久審完以後還有幾條條款還有一些條款是大家沒有共識的我們就送到了朝野協商朝野協商我是代表這個內政委會初席初席的時候游錫坤院長坐在這邊柯建民總召坐在游錫坤院長的右邊然後我們其他黨都坐在下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
9320.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
9346.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
討論的時候我們就說我們委員會出來的版本是這個版本那院長是不是我們按照這個版本來討論那是不是哪一條要哪一條不要我們來討論結果游錫堅院長非常的願意討論柯建民總召在現場說不用討論我說總召之後我們會討論審查的要過來討論怎麼會不用討論呢他說我們到底要用哪個版本去表決如果到了委員會到了院會的時候要用哪個版本表決呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
9347.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
9368.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
他說我到現在這是我學到最大的功課柯建民總召在現場因為有錄音錄影他說表決的時候你就知道了表決的時候你就知道了這就是柯建民總召說的話這就是民進黨所謂的偷襲式立法嗎到了112年5月底那一天我記得那天下午要表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
9370.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
9387.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
兩點開始開會我們什麼時候拿到版本呢?兩點二十因為這中間有一些原住民的條款我記得民進黨團還在繼續在那黨團討論我還跑來問我們一位原住民委員民進黨說你們這個到底討論出來了沒有所以什麼時候拿到版本?兩點二十表決兩點的時候開始再發版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
9388.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
9408.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
什麼叫偷襲式律法?什麼叫做不認真的?國民黨團在開會都非常認真的在看任何的這個法案的修正我舉幾個例子什麼叫做不認真?我們那天在審財化法的時候卓榮泰院長明明說現行的法律是最好的最好的版本是最好的版本結果在修正第二條的時候財富法第二條的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
9410.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
9430.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
條文是不予修正!民進黨說反對阿!我說現行版本不是最好的版本嗎?你們為什麼都反對?你們有在開會嗎?明明說前一天所有東西都在你的桌上,王一雙上來講說沒有資料關心的就前一天就發了我覺得民進黨開會才是真正的不認真然後我還說說民進黨所謂的仔細是什麼?2017年這個保護、經濟保護法開始討論,討論到2024年所謂民進黨討論的仔細是7年阿! |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
9437.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
9458.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
其實這是以拖待變而已我記得之前一個更少法民進黨也是這樣子都是在以拖待變所以我們今天我們今天一定要社會大眾知道我們真正重視揭弊者保護法我們真正要讓揭弊人那時候是戴立聖來澄清那真正來那個揭弊人說真的我們是重視不是像民進黨那樣拖啊、變啊、不拖 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
9463.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
9487.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
謝謝陳一貞委員的發言報告委員會我們現在要進報告委員會我們現在要進行表決黃國昌總好請我們現在補還有第三位登記請黃國昌委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
9495.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
9517.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
院長、本院委員第一次發言的時候我說拖延了2700多天我們終於等到吹哨者保護法有機會在本院完成三讀了當我這樣說的時候一方面心情是沉重的但是另外一方面是期待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
9518.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
9539.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對於揭弊者保護法的通過剛剛有委員上來指教說這是一個突襲式的立法恕我無法同意我為什麼說我沒有辦法同意說這是突襲式的立法在新的國會第一次總執勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
9540.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
9567.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我就問了行政院院長崔少哲保護法版本什麼時候要送到立法院來他們說我們在研議新的內閣上來我再問一次崔少哲保護法的版本什麼時候要送到立法院來得到的答案還是一樣我們在研議在司法法制委員會當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
9569.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
9595.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我最少問了三次行政院版的吹哨者保護法什麼時候要送到立法院來答案不出所料我們還是持續在演繹我說過我會給行政部門時間把版本提出來但是我不會讓你們拖延不會永久的等待記錄了委員會討論的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
9599.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
9626.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
從廣泛討論逐條討論從早上9點開始到下午4點多結束我全程在場誰說沒有討論誰說沒有討論大家可以去看看IDOD啊到底是哪一個黨團的委員沒有來討論每一條幾乎都含保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
9627.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
9653.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
每一條都保留都說沒有討論請問我們那七八個小時在幹嘛又有人說阿這個沒有黨團協商請教一下上禮拜四院長本來要召集的協商是哪一個黨團通知大家取消的通知大家取消黨團協商結果自己偷偷跑去找院長拜託院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
9654.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
9674.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
沒有黨團協商合以自知、孰以自知把立法歷程看清楚啊沒有把立法歷程看清楚以前啊不要在這邊隨便說這個是突襲式的立法整個公民社會都知道啊是哪一個黨在拖是哪一個黨跳跳2700多天謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
9679.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
9694.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們謝謝黃國昌委的發言報告議會因台灣民眾黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議的名稱相同我們就一併處理現在我們名稱照台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團再修正動議名稱通過請問有無異議請問有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
9706.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
9713.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
沒有異議我們現在名稱就照台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議名稱我們通過我們現在進行請宣讀第一條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
9720.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
9741.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第一條為維護公共利益、有效發現、防止、追求重大不法行為並保障公部門及私部門揭弊者之權益特制定本法揭弊者之揭弊程序及保護依本法之規定但其他法律之規定更有利於揭弊者之保護者從其規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
9743.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
9766.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
國民黨黨團再修正動議第一條為維護公共利益有效發現、防止、追究重大不法行為並保障公部門國營事業及受政府控制之事業、團體或機構揭弊者之權益特制定本法揭弊者之揭弊程序及保護依本法之規定但其他法律之規定更有利於揭弊者之保護者從其規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
9767.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
9795.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
民進黨黨團在修正動議第一條為澄清例子建立連任政府有效發現防止追究重大貪賭不法行為保障揭弊者之權益特制定本法揭弊者之揭弊程序及保護依本法之規定但其他法律之規定更有利於揭弊者之保護者從其規定宣讀完畢我們現在首先請廖偉翔委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
9798.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
9816.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
林國成委員請準備主席還有在場所有同仁跟媒體朋友們 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
9817.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
9843.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
公益揭弊者保護法草案早在2016年的時候就已經在立法院討論八年過去了一事無成民進黨完全執政的八年只通過他們要清算別人的法案但是對於社會各界期盼已久、討論已久的公益揭弊者保護法還有剛通過的才化法就是透過議事程序去封鎖、去卡所以才會到這一屆重新討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
9845.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
9856.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
2017年8月12日施改國事會議總結報告的結論就是要提出制定吹哨者保護法至今已經超過2700多天請問還有多少個2700多天可以蹉跎為什麼會有這麼多2700多天就是民進黨執政黨的立委一直說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
9865.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
9875.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
擬具社會共識然後要非常的演繹喔所以我們可以看到因為民進黨非常會擬具社會共識非常會演繹所以拖了2700多天喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
9877.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
9897.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
請問有多少弊案因為沒有公益揭弊者保護法而繼續藏污納垢民進黨的執政已經背棄了司改國事會議跟反貪腐的國家公約報告過去8年來民進黨已經用事實和行動證明不通過這個法的好處就是讓貪污腐敗橫行 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
9898.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
9916.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那感謝這一次全國選民的智慧讓這一屆的立法院可以有機會重新討論才會有機會到院會來表決所以也希望今天的公益揭弊者保護法大家可以順利通過給國人、給社會一個交代希望民進黨不要再阻擋不要再阻撓 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
9917.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
9936.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
讓公平正義可以照亮社會上每一個角落不要讓各個角落有藏污納垢的機會讓勇敢揭弊的每一位英雄都可以獲得保護那麼這次所提的法案這個公益揭弊者保護法提案的原由也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
9937.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
9963.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
也是仿效2023年5月德國已經通過的《揭弊者保護專法》他們是公司部門一併納入所以當然這個部分就是大家要討論的但是藉由這個機制我們要考慮到新法上路的確有一段適應期所以我們也贊成這次國民黨團所提的再修正動議就是先適用公部門以及國營事業以及受政府控制的事業團體跟機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
9964.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
9982.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
之後再研議是不是可以納入司部門讓執法部門可以先適應這項新業務並且有所依許那我要再次強調民進黨已經跳票了2700多天了這個法案不能因為行政部門拖拉執政黨不想推就抹煞社會公平正義的良心 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
9983.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
9997.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這十幾年來的論述也悍牛衝動資料非常多、非常詳盡只差鄰門一角就是立法院三讀通過總統公布實行所以請各位站在公平正義的一方站在社會公義的一方、良心的一方支持公益揭弊者保護法謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
10000.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
10011.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
謝謝廖偉翔委員發言報告委員會陳雪生委員聲明對剛才的表決與國民黨團意見一致我們列入公報記錄接下來我們請林國成委員發言審發會委員請準備好 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
10024.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
10046.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們各位同仁還有我們全國的同胞大家早安我想公益揭弊者這個保護法我就感覺到很奇怪不管是多少的時間很難得今天坐在這裡已經商黨有共識大家要共同來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
10047.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
10076.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那我就奇怪了為什麼一開始你們在批評國民黨批評台灣民眾黨還在批評什麼但是我坦白講今天我們大家有共識這是為了台灣人民這是為了一個揭弊者的保護法條大家共同來討論那我看今天就很好啊各黨都表示一點意見但是我反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
10077.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
10103.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
不要不事實的東西還在批評另外兩黨這樣不好因為我是覺得既然大家為了這個揭弊者公益揭弊者這個法案大家要來談寫得很清楚啊不管是修正動議不管是再修正動議都是一樣大家共同討論的結果所以大家也不要緊張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
10104.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
10127.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
因為我們台灣民眾黨我們黃國昌委員他非常重視這個意義這個法條但是最起碼的話今天大家共同來討論是我們立法委員的職責所訂定的一個法例所以我說實在今天第一條這個法令訂得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
10128.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
10147.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
不要吹哨子以及揭弊者提心吊膽然後冒著生命危險到最後沒有法條去保護他但是今天有這個公益揭弊者的保護法這是一件好事我要呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
10148.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
10175.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們大院裡面所有的立法委員今天大家都有一個盡到責任的一個功勞所以我希望揭弊者他要保護揭弊者他要有讓他有一個合情合理的法條來保障他這樣的話我相信我們台灣揭弊的一個風氣會更 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
10176.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
10200.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
更加正常過去才是不正常因為沒有法律的保護他今天他只要公益的揭弊他要面臨的生命的威脅以及種種的報復那今天有這個法條最起碼的話他是受保障的他一定是很正常的所以在這裡我還是要呼籲尤其民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
10201.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
10206.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
沒有人再批評任何事請你不要再批評反對黨好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
10234.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
10244.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
主席、各位同仁我想我們現在已經進入了主條進入我們今天第一條的立法目的討論剛才有這麼多的政治口水實在是不太想回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
10245.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
10263.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
但是我們就就事論事就法論法了剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題其實這一條第一條裡面最大的大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行公部門到包括什麼範圍或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
10264.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
10280.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
在這個部分在我們的委員會立法過程裡面事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門民眾黨也是公部門加私部門但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行公私分流 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
10281.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
10309.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候他們同意接近了民進黨的看法國民黨也提出了公私分流國民黨也主張說那就是公部門先行但是呢民眾黨堅持堅持私部門一定要放進來為什麼會每一條都保留因為民眾黨一直堅持啊在現場審查就是這樣子啊民眾黨說私部門不行他要堅持那要堅持沒有辦法要堅持不然不保留難道要打架 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
10311.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
10335.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以就這樣子保留了那有關於公司分流、公部門先行這部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多私部門納入的問題在許多的對於目前不管是這個私方、勞方有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司大家都有保留的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
10336.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
10357.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
都認為說現在私部門如果納入這個揭弊者保護法裡面恐怕會嚴重的衝擊企業內部的關係以及甚至會危及台灣的經濟包括當時國民黨團提出的修正動議的理由就是說他們看了太多由於在上市公司由於商業競爭的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
10359.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
10382.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
在特定的期間內用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值市場上面的走向這個他們看太多了因此他們也覺得很害怕所以國民黨那時候國民黨的召委就提出說他的修正動議就是公私分流公部門先行這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
10382.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
10397.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
公布能包括哪一些範圍這部分就是我今天第一條我們民進黨認為說國民黨所提的法案有問題國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
10399.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
10412.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
至於什麼是政府控制的事業我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念政府什麼地方控制是多少幾%的投資額嗎或者是說要控制人事政府控制的事業、團體、機構什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
10435.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
10444.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我們謝謝審發會委員的發言報告委員會我們現在處理第一條按鈴7分鐘分發表決卡現在開始按鈴 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
10869.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
10875.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好,報告委員會我們現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
10971.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
10973.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
併案審查委員會報告併案審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
10985.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
11008.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
報案委員會報告表決結果出席108位贊成8票反對49票棄權51票報案委員會本案表決結果可否兩方均未過半數依立法院議事規則第36條規定應該要重新表決我們重新表決的時候以多數為可決 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
11010.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
11021.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我們現在進行重新表決贊成台灣民眾黨團所提議請按贊成、反對請按反對我們現在開始時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
11097.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
11117.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
報告委員會現在報告我們重新表決的結果出席107位贊成8位反對49位棄權50位我們贊成者少數台灣民眾黨團所提議再修正動議條文不通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
11119.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
11124.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
報告委員會我們現在處理國民黨黨團在修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決贊成國民黨團在修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
11234.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
11240.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
法院會報告表決結果出席108位、贊成51位、反對49位、棄權8位法院會本案表決結果可否兩方一樣為過半數 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
11258.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
11271.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
議事規則第36條規定要重新表決我們重新表決時以多數為可決我們現在進行重新表決贊成國民黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
11351.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
11362.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
法院會報告重行表決結果我們出席108位贊成51位反對49位棄權8位贊成者多數我們照國民黨黨團再修正動議通過現在我們進入第二條條文我們請宣讀第二條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
11377.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
11390.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第二條國民黨黨團再修正動議第二條本法制主管機關為法務部法務部未辦理本法所定之揭弊者保護事項應組成揭弊者保護委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
11392.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
11409.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
本法所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執行者由各該目的事業主管機關辦理目的事業主管機關有爭議者由揭弊者保護委員會確定之揭弊者保護委員會至委員7人以法務部部長為主任委員並為當然委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
11411.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
11436.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
其餘委員由主管機關就具下列資格者臨聘之任期三年一、承認法官檢察官、律師及其他依法具有專門職業及技術職業資格人員五年以上者二、承認獲卸任教育部任何之大專院校教授五年以上、生育酬數者三、對揭弊者保護、人權保障有專門研究或貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
11437.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
11459.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
或具相關公民團體實務經驗、身遇著住者、揭弊者保護委員會之組織規程、擬併方式、處理程序及其他應遵行事常識辦法由主管機關定之民進黨黨團再修正統一第二條本法視主管機關為法務部本法鎖定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執照者 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
11460.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
11472.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
由各該目的事業主管機關辦理目的事業主管機關有生意者由主管機關確定之宣讀完畢我們現在請張祺凱委員請發言陳俊宇委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
11491.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
11508.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
吹哨者保護法是全民關注的重要法案對於台灣能夠邁向一個反貪腐、反帕林的先進的是非常重要的一步現在全民都在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
11509.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
11538.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
很期待今天不是只有台灣民眾黨不是只有國民黨更期待民進黨可以共同來加入完成這個歷史性的一刻因為它至少有兩個很重要的功能還有三大的保護兩大功能是它會達成反貪腐、反霸凌它有三個保護它會對吹哨者的身份保護不會外泄 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
11539.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
11565.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
吹哨者的工作權也可以受到保障第三個保護是他的生命安全也可以受到保護這二反三保都非常重要全民都在看我們期待執政黨、民進黨能夠我們共同來創下這非常重要的一個時刻我要請大家看另外一個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
11566.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
11586.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
在五年半前五年半以前民進黨的行政院長蘇貞昌也就是我們現場蘇巧慧的爸爸蘇貞昌曾經代表民進黨提出了《吹哨者保護法》那時候蘇貞昌怎麼說他說做對的事情不應該被欺負 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
11590.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
11616.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
做對的事情包括反貪腐、反霸凌你去吹哨你不應該受到欺負我也請民進黨的立法委員可以看一下這個版本五年半前民進黨的行政院的吹哨者保護法就是公部門跟私部門同時都是並行的民進黨不能夠五年半後倒退入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
11617.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
11631.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
五年半前的版本公部門在裡面、私部門在裡面為什麼今天私部門不要了呢?我們台灣民眾黨非常理性、務實、科學民進黨認為現在只有談公部門我跟他強調公部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
11636.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
11650.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
包括很多國營事業現在很多都沒有超過50%所以前陣子包括發生弊案的你要反貪腐包括發生弊案的台鹽、台鹽利能都不在裡面所以如果公部門我們一定要加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
11651.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
11675.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
只要是政府投資或轉投資超過20%的把他放進去第二公司部門當然霸凌事件、貪腐問題也是會有的所以我們明確要求每一年他持收的這個資本額超過1億元把他列進來公司共同來並行而且我們已經找出這個折衷紙了公部門是20%以上司部門實質投資也以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
11688.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
11706.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
謝謝張祺凱委員的發言報告委員會我們現在議場二樓旁聽的是來自中華民國傑出發明家協會都是優秀的發明家我們掌聲歡迎啊歡迎來立法院 謝謝我們接下來請陳俊宇委員發言洪孟楷委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
11720.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
11729.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
主席我們各位同仁還有在場所有媒體先進及旁觀的我們在場的所有發明家大家早安大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
11730.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
11753.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
不論在任何職務有機關的內部人員若發現組織內有重大的不法弊端他如果要勇於站出來揭發貪賭指出不法政府應該要給予他充分的保護由於在傳統這種觀念上揭弊者容易被污名化甚至被揭弊後遭到報復 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
11754.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
11776.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
恐怕會間接造成這種寒蟬的效應讓各組織內部的人員不敢站出來揭發弊端對於揭弊者的這個保護如果越完備的話越有機會能夠使重大的這種不法案件及早被發現我想這也是在推動揭弊者保護法上其中一個最重要的立法精神和目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
11778.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
11802.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
公部門先行取得社會廣泛的信賴再進一步擴大引導私部門來做的話對於公部門先立法對私部門採取行政指導再思考兩者連結的適當性考量社會對於公部門的清廉要求高於私部門且公部門相關的人事保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
11803.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
11826.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
舊計法的相關架構也比較完善將弊端聚焦於貪圖不法的這個部分也已經有共識有鑒於本法是國內首創的揭弊保護機制較無爭議的公部門來推行的話或許是一個比較具有緩衝性對公部門之間也比較能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
11830.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
11852.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
尋漸進的這種方式來進行那關於第二條所處理有關於本法主管機關的部分國眾兩黨的版本相同主要是涉揭弊者保護委員會授權外部的這個委員會來確保機關之間的這個爭議主要對於目的主管的機關之間的這個爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
11855.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
11881.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
需要等待保護委員來召開會議處理但這樣子的設計能不能夠及時的回應爭議立即給予揭弊者權益的保障一旦作業時間拉長是否可能會增加泄密的風險不見得有利於後續救濟所以在本黨的修正動議當中主張由主管機關、法務部來處理較為妥當則是 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
11885.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
11903.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
有必要在第二條徵定保護委員會的這個機制我想應該在省著考量那對於民進黨所提出的這個版本因未能在政黨協商時實質來討論我們也感到非常的遺憾希望今天我們所要制定的這部揭弊者保護會是 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
11907.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
11922.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好 謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言報告宴會議場二樓又有一批新的好朋友來自重生康復之家所有的好朋友我們掌聲歡迎大家 歡迎我們接下來請洪孟楷委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
11930.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
11956.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
主席謝謝揭弊者保護法從本行2020年進入到立法院我們一直在吹聲倡議就是希望給台灣社會更安定的力量也把弊端防範於未然所以剛剛已經有第一條的進入時者討論並且現在第二條我想這是一個開端也是寫下歷史的一頁但是不管是民進黨、民眾黨或者是國民黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
11958.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
11965.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我想在這邊應該都要共同的先譴責行政部門你們的版本在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
11966.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
11995.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
大家不要忘記欸2018年的時候是民進黨政府的法務部先提出來的一個版本叫做《吹哨者保護法》當時把公司部門給放進去之後因為社會嘩然以及爭議頗大所以就悄悄地下架了之後第9屆結束之後屆期不連貫第10屆我們一直要求行政部門拿出版本行政部門4年沒有拿出任何一個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
11996.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
12018.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
直到現在法務部的網站上面有寫到最後一次的進度是停留在2024年今年的3月4號法務部報給行政院行政院從3月4號一直到現在12月27號都沒有任何的進展過去的7、8個月行政院在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
12019.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
12043.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
行政院沒有提出版本我們一直講從上個會期我們就說吹哨者保護法一定要趕快送進來我們可以來討論到上個會期沒有這個會期也沒有我們到底還要等多久所以今天在討論今天在審查今天在表決沒有行政部門的版本我們身為立法院113席的每一個委員難道不覺得氣憤嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
12046.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
12053.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
民進黨可以有版本民眾黨可以有版本國民黨團可以有版本結果行政部門、主管機關沒有版本再者 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
12055.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
12076.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
剛剛所有的一個審查內容本席都有親自參與也因此非常了解事實真相應該還原事實真相也應該釐清為什麼剛剛有民進黨的委員講說草野協商的時候沒有廣泛討論只有國民黨團、民眾黨團的版本在第二條是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
12076.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
12097.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那是因為草野學生的時候民進黨團版本都還沒有出來就這麼簡單民進黨團版本到什麼時候出來的上個禮拜五的院會我們才看到民進黨團的版本在上個禮拜五的院會之前沒有任何民進黨團的版本這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
12098.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
12114.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以就是論事依法論法我們今天逐條審查大家都可以發言但是請還原事實真相在第二條的部分成立委員會能夠保障吹哨者能夠讓吹哨的權益更加的獲得保障這是本黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
12123.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
12141.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
謝謝洪孟楷委員的發言報院會因為台灣民眾黨團跟國民黨團分別所提在修正動議的第二條條文相同所以我們一併進行處理請院會照國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議的條文通過有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
12143.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
12151.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
有異議我們就進行表決我們現在開始表決贊成台灣民眾黨團、國民黨黨團在修正動議第二條條文贊成請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
12234.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
12242.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
報告委員會報告表決結果在場出席107位贊成58位反對49位贊成者多數現有民進黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
12325.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
12343.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
報告重複表決結果出席108位贊成59位反對者49位贊成者多數通過第二條照台灣民眾黨團及國民黨團再修正動議條文通過報告我們現在進入第三條條文請宣讀第三條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
12344.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
12358.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第3條本法所申辟案 限制公務員或政府機關購政府及其所屬營業基金、分業基金轉投資金額累計佔該事業基本額20%以上之轉投資或在轉投資事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
12364.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
12378.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
受政府直接或間接控制其人事、財務或業務之團體或機構持收資本人或出資額在新台幣1億元以上之事業之人員算有下列弊案一、違反刑法堵職罪章之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
12379.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
12406.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
二、違反《貪污之罪條例》之行為三、包庇他人犯罪之行為但與法律有明文規定刑事處罰者違憲四、違反公職員利益衝突迴避法制行為五、違反《洗錢防治法》、《自控防治法》、《組織犯罪防治條例》、《槍炮彈藥刀械管制條例》、《懲治走私條例》、《毒品危害防治條例》、《兒童及少年性剝削防治條例》或《人口販運防治法》之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
12408.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
12431.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
6、違反《銀行法》、《金融控股公司法》、《信用合作社法》、《信託業法》、《證券投資信託及顧問法》、《證券交易法》、《期貨交易法》、《公平交易法》或《營業祕密法》之行為7、違反《空氣污染防治法》、《水污染防治法》、《海洋污染防治法》、《廢棄物性零法》、《環境用藥管理法》或《土壤及地下水污染整治法》之行為8、 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
12432.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
12461.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
違反食品安全衛生管理法、藥師法或醫療法制行為違反勞動基準法或職業安全衛生法制行為違反刑法妨害投票罪徵、公證員選舉罷免法、總統、副總統選舉罷免法、公民投票法或反生存法制行為違反政府財務法之罪、集體101條第一項刊登政府採購公報制行為其他重大管理不當、浪費公帑、濫用權勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
12462.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
12489.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
或對公眾能源供應、國民健康、食品安全、邊境防檢、燒保護、校園經營、環境保護、金融穩定、社會秩序、司法公正造成具體損害之行為。其他近主管機關公告之犯罪,處以法官之違規行為,或應付陳欠之行為。前項第13款併案範圍,由主管機關會商相關機關公告定制,並應定期檢討、調整、增淺公告之併案範圍。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
12490.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
12501.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
本法所稱政府機關構致中央與各級地方政府機關、集訓法人、公立學校、公立醫療院所、公營事業、政府捐助職採訪法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
12504.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
12530.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
國民黨黨團在修正動議第3條本法所申辟案是指公務員或政府機關構受政府控制事業團體或機構之人員罪有下列犯罪或違法行為或涉及公共利益且情節重大者一、犯刑法堵職罪章之行為二、違反《貪污之罪條例》之行為三、包庇他人犯罪之行為但以法律有名為規定刑事處罰者違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
12532.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
12551.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
四、違反公職員利益衝突迴避法的處以防患之行為五、違反政府財務法之行為六、法官法第30條第2項第7款或第89條第4項第7款之應付評鑑行為七、違反下列根本是有危害公務利益且情節重大之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
12552.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
12574.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
一、犯刑法公共危險罪證、詐欺被刑期重利罪、第231條之一、第296條、第296條之一之行為二、違反《洗血防治法》、《組織犯罪防治條例》、《槍砲彈藥盜竊管制條例》、《全職走私條例》、《毒品危害防治條例》、《人口販運防治法》、《兒童及少年性剝削防治條例》之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
12576.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
12600.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
三、犯刑法、妨害投票罪證或違反公職員選舉泡棉法、總統、副總統選舉泡棉法、公民投票法、反申託法之行為四、違反營業祕密法之行為五、違反銀行法、保險法、證券交易法、期貨交易法、信託業法、金融控股公司法、票券金融管理法、證券投資信託及顧問法、公平交易法或其他有關經濟殘缺法物質行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
12603.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
12625.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
6、違反水土保持法、山坡地保育利用條例、空氣污染防治法、水污染防治法、海洋污染防治法、廢棄物精零法、毒性疾病中化學物質管理法、土壤及地下水污染准治法、環境用藥管理法之罪或其他有關環境保護法維持行為7、違反藥食法、醫療器材管理法、食品安全衛生管理法、傳染病防治法 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
12626.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
12641.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
或其他有關衛生福利法規制行為幫違反《勞動基準法》、《勞動檢查法》、《職業安全衛生法》、《就業服務法》或其他有關勞動法規制行為違反《性騷擾防治法》、《性別平等工作法》、《性別平等教育法》制定行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
12643.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
12662.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
十、違反《身心障礙者權益保障法》、《老人福利法》、《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》之行為八、其他涉及重大公共利益罪犯罪、處以防衛或應付懲戒之行為其向第8款併案範圍由主管機關彙生相關機關定制並定期檢討、調整或增淺 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
12664.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
12686.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
民進黨黨團再修正統議第3條本法所稱必案如下一、故意犯刑法、堵持罪障之罪二、貪污之罪、條例之罪三、包庇他人犯罪之行為但與法律有明文規定刑事處罰者違憲四、違反公職原理衝突迴避法的處以罰款之違規行為五、犯政府財務法之罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
12688.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
12706.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
其他涉及公共利益之犯罪、處以法官之違規行為、應付懲戒之行為或對司法公正造成具體損害之行為前項第六款閉案範圍由法務部匯收相關儘管定制並應定期檢討、調整或增檢宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
12709.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
12723.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
報告委員會我們12點已到我們現在會分發便當那12點半會加發台南府城的肉粽跟排骨湯請大家自己調整好謝謝我們接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言徐巧欣委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
12743.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
12767.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
主席、在場委員先進揭弊者跟檢舉者有什麼差別檢舉者任何人都可以但是揭弊者一定是在該組織機關內部才有揭弊者為什麼揭弊者要特別保護外部的人可以檢舉但是揭弊者身處這個不法集團當中如果他檢舉的話他會受到一些侵害這才是揭弊者要保護的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
12767.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
12790.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以民進黨向來對於揭弊者保護法我們也是支持但是我們看到為什麼這個揭弊者保護法是用草眼協商經過委員審查通通都幾乎都保留國民黨跟民眾黨和民進黨意見不一為什麼因為對於公私並行有不同的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
12792.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
12798.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
本來國民黨跟民眾黨都認為要公私並進但是民黨認為初期以公部門先行 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
12799.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
12828.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
但是民眾黨反對阿他說黃國昌說司法國事會議我向來就主張要如此當年民黨是如此難道你現在破口都是你的初戀情人嗎難道我們不能修正嗎當發現私部門有困難的時候我們不能調整嗎有沒有調整 有國民黨調整了國民黨把私部門拿掉改為國營事業但是民眾黨反對阿他說不能一定要把私部門放進去所以我們剛剛通過的第一條公私部門都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
12829.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
12856.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
但是你以為這樣子司部門都放進去了嗎木可公司有放進去嗎眾望基金會有放進去嗎沒有啊為什麼後來變成這樣子呢因為民眾黨的再修正例偷藏了公司部門把司部門拿掉了局限在什麼特定的國營事業受國營控股還有資本額1億以上的剛好這些門檻有沒有木可公司沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
12857.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
12883.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
有沒有中心基金會沒有所以要揭弊要揭弊請問朱雅虎是不是揭弊者朱雅虎當年如果有揭弊者保護法他在台北市政府兵役局他可以檢舉啊他可以受到保護啊朱雅虎如果當年他在威精集團他有揭弊者保護法他可以對小省進行檢舉啊沒有揭弊者保護法太可惜了通過太晚了現在朱雅虎只能當污點證人讓黃國昌痛罵 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
12887.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
12914.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以啊 別假盜學 別偽君子啦民眾黨通過這個揭弊者保護法 早已放棄了他們公私納入他們接受了國民黨的修正 還加了一個手腳 放在第三條更可笑的 第三條 刑事不法 行政違規不分如果一個公家機關 左鄰右舍是公務員 倒垃圾違反廢物法 可以揭弊 要受理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
12916.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
12926.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這麼可笑的第三條的立法原來國民黨、民政黨不分欺騙發牌、造騷注定讓未來的揭弊者保護法自私欲分、自食惡果 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
12946.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
12974.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
主席各位關心公益揭弊者權益的社會大眾大家好剛才呢我很驚訝的聽到了民進黨在講說呢哎呀揭弊者保護法之前不做真是太可惜了那我想問過去8年是誰在執政過去8年立法院誰是多數如果過去8年像你們所說的這麼的可惜是不是早就可以先做了我們不需要今天在這裡逐條討論呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
12976.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
12988.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以民進黨在這裡講太可惜了我們都很在乎公益保護法的時候揭弊者保護法的時候我要問一下你們真的很在乎嗎可不可以摸摸你們的良心自己問問看你們自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
12989.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
13014.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我必須講到在第三條裡面我們確定了整個弊案的範圍那也希望說有多方面的樣態違法的樣態都可以適用於本法我在過去揭露了幾件事情比方說有一次彰化銀行我們的公股銀行竟然在選舉期間被要求投放廣告來幫執政黨做宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
13016.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
13039.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
結果呢我公布了相關公文之後大家知道發生什麼事嗎?中化銀行等所有公國銀行開始抓內鬼開始想知道誰把公文提供給徐草心的所以如果我們沒有吹哨者保護法不好意思公家部門他不是去解決問題他是來檢討跟解決提出問題以及發現問題的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
13042.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
13064.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
最近的公佈門暴領案我們收到了非常非常多件但大多數的被暴領者他不敢站出來因為他怕他用了他的名字被發現是他投訴以後他會被長官針對以後他會沒有工作以後他會被降調職務所以即便是我們現在都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
13064.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
13085.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
公部門的霸凌非常嚴重但是當我們盟友這個公益者揭弊保護法的時候這些人仍然處在危險當中最後我要再講超司機的案討論了這麼久當時盟業部這麼多人來幫超司機的案護航這件事裡面其實是有吹哨者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
13086.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
13100.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
但是因為沒有這部法律村上人不敢公開自己的身份所以我們只能一個一個一個慢慢查甚至我要跑去報官行裡面跟報官行的老闆聊天希望得出更多的真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
13101.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
13128.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以這部法律之所以重要就是希望在公部門裡面所有的弊端能夠被揭發以外我們還要保護願意提出問題幫人民社會解決問題讓政治變得更加的清明讓我們的政府更不敢再利用資訊的落差做壞事所以我們會繼續努力希望今天能夠正式的三讀通過這會是一部相當重要的法律謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
13132.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
13137.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
謝謝曲曉欣委員的發言接下來我們請黃國昌委員請發言院長、本院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
13155.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
13180.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
《公益揭弊者保護法》第三條所牽涉到的核心適用範圍台灣民眾黨我們希望公司部門必須要合併來加以規範在推動這整個立法的歷程當中這是我們一直以來的信念跟價值但是也有委員反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
13181.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
13198.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
想要用台灣的中小企業來當作理由說納入私部門以後台灣的中小企業會遭受到沒有辦法抗拒的壓力跟負擔沒有辦法私情這個是民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
13199.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
13225.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
在委員會的時候在委員會的時候所提出來的理由但是我們事實上都知道民進黨真的在乎的哪是那些中小企業啊民進黨真的在乎的是那些上市櫃公司才是他們真正想要讓他們免受《吹哨者保護法》規範適由的真心話 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
13226.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
13245.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
在今天整個討論的過程當中台灣民眾黨黨團我們堅持這樣的理想我們排除了所謂的中小企業讓實收基本額一元以上一元以上的企業都相同的受到規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
13247.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
13261.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
今天台灣民眾黨適用的範圍是最廣的中國國民黨是支限縮在最小最小範圍的那個黨團的版本叫做民主進步黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
13262.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
13286.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
而這個限縮到最小最小的版本要保障、要保護我們的大財團、我們的大企業等民主進步黨在2018年所提出來的版本卻是公私部門合併民主進步黨過去所堅持的理想到什麼地方去了?到今天退縮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
13288.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
13310.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
連上市櫃公司都不願意納入規範為什麼?這是在保護中小企業嗎?還是在保護大財團?我相信全國人民看得都非常的清楚至於說國營企業我們贊成但是範圍不夠廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
13312.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
13330.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
有非常多政府實質上面的控制包括像兆豐銀行包括像中華電信包括像台原公司全部都是我們政府所控制的我們認為這個至少也應該要納入規範的範圍之中謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
13336.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
13346.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
謝謝黃國昌委員的發言報告委員會我們現在表決台灣民眾黨團在修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘贊成民眾黨團請按贊成反對請按反對現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
13434.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
13454.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
法院會報告表決結果出席106位、贊成8位、反對48位、棄權50位法院會賴世保委員聲明對剛才表決結果與國民黨團一致我們列入公報記錄現在本案表決結果可否雙方均沒有過半數 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
13455.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
13469.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
一例法院議事規則第36條規定我們要重新表決重新表決的時候以多數為可決我們現在進行重新表決贊成台灣民眾黨黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
13547.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
13552.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
法務院會報告重新表決結果出席107位、贊成8位、反對48位、棄權51位、贊成者少數台灣民眾黨團在修正綜藝第三條條文不通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
13563.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
13567.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
本院會現有現在表決國民黨黨團在修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決贊成國民黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
13658.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
13663.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
法院會報告表決結果出席108位贊成59位反對49位贊成者多數法院會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
13689.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
13690.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
國會黨通過以後再練這個要休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
13756.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
13762.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
法院會報告重複表決結果出席108位贊成59位反對49位贊成者多數我們第三條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
13772.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
13788.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
法院會根據黨團共識願會我們中午休息下午2點30分繼續開會我們準備的肉粽跟排骨湯在簽名處12點半會放在那邊請各委員自行領取我們2點半繼續開會現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
21631.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
21652.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
報告院會現在繼續開會請宣讀第4條條文台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第4條本法所稱受理揭弊機關如下依公部門之政府機關構主管、首長或其指定人員、司部門之法人、團體雇主或其關係企業之主管、負責人或其指定人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
21653.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
21668.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
二、檢查機關、三、司法警察機關、四、目的事業主管機關、五、監察院、六、政府機構揭弊內容涉及《國家揭秘保護法》所定之國家揭秘者應相下列經關揭弊實受本法保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
21669.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
21698.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
一、涉及機密等級事項應向前項第一款、第二款或第五款式機關為之二、涉及絕對集集機密等級事項應向最高檢查署為之受理揭弊機關對揭弊內容應依相關法令予以保密受理揭弊機關判定揭秘之內容非其主管事項時應將案件移送更全責機關並通知揭弊者揭弊案件經移送各全責機關者難依本法規定保護之 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
21700.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
21724.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
國民黨黨團再修正動議第4條本法所稱受理揭弊機關如下一、公部門之政府機關構主管所掌或其指定單位、人員二、國營事業受政府控制之事業團體或機構之主管負責人或其指定單位、人員三、檢查機關四、司法檢查機關五、目的事業主管機關六、監察院七、政風機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
21726.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
21741.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
揭弊內容涉及國家揭秘保護法是國家揭秘者應向下列機關揭秘實受本法保護一、涉及揭秘等級事項應向前項第一款、第三款或第六款之受理揭秘機關為之二、涉及絕對揭秘及 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
21741.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
21765.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
及機密等級事項應向最高檢查署或高等檢查署及其檢查分署為之受理揭弊機關對揭弊內容應依相關法令予以保密之受理揭弊機關經判定揭弊內容非其主要事項時應將案件移送各權責機關並通知揭弊者揭弊案件經移送各權責機關者人依本法規定保護之 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
21767.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
21790.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
民進黨黨團再修政動議第4條本法所申受理揭弊機關如下一、被揭弊者所屬政府機關構主管所掌或其指定單位人員二、檢查機關三、司法警察機關四、目的事業主管機關五、監察院六、政風機構揭弊內容涉及國家機密保護法治國家機密者應向下列機關揭弊實受本法保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
21791.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
21816.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
一、涉及機密等級事項應向前項第一款或第二款之受理揭弊機關為之二、涉及絕對機密或極機密等級事項應向最高檢察署或高等檢察署及其檢查分署為之受理揭弊機關對揭弊內容應依相關法令予以保密如任揭弊內容涉及其他機關主管事項者於是當時應移送該機關處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
21818.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
21841.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
並通知揭弊者揭弊案欠金移送全職機關者仍依本法規定保護之本法所生政府機關構指中央及地方各級政府機關構行政法人、公立學校、公立醫療院所、公營事業政府捐助之財產法人宣讀完畢現在請洪孟楷委員發言時間3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
21847.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
21851.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
韓國瑜委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
21857.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
21879.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
主席各位同仁現在是公益揭弊者保護法第4條的討論而第4條其實主要規範在於是我們受相關受理揭弊機關的一個部分而其中不管是國民黨團也好或是民眾黨團也好我們都針對了機密以及絕對機密跟極機密的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
21880.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
21908.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
有尊重現行司法檢調的一個機制來去做處理包括說裡面如果涉及到機密的事項的話則是由公部門政府部門主管以及首長等指定單位來受理或是由檢察機關以及由監察院而如果說是絕對機密或是極機密的話則應該由最高檢察署或是高等檢察署及檢察分署來受理因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
21909.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
21932.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
公益揭弊者保護法可以在兼顧希望能夠讓所有有弊案需要來爆料或說有弊案需要來揭弊的一個部分能夠鼓勵爆料者能夠勇於的勇敢發聲但另外一方面我們也避免任何的爛訴或者是避免任何的機密來被公開也因此在這第4條裡面有嚴格的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
21935.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
21957.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
但是過去到現在2000多天的一個時間其實我想我要還原一下從2013年、2014年政府時代開始著手各界呼籲要有公益揭弊者保護法或是所謂的吹哨者保護法一直到蔡英文政府8年時間到現在賴清德政府2000多天過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
21958.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
21979.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
如果說民進黨的朋友你們真的有心想要來通過想要來推動公益揭弊者保護法的話為什麼過去兩屆的任期、八年的會期以及16個會期裡面沒有看到你們的版本說實在的話今天公益揭弊者保護法我們可以預言的是可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
21980.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
22004.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
所有的條文通過有國民黨團的版本有國民黨跟民眾黨兩個黨團的版本都不會有任何一條是民進黨團的版本但如果說你們更積極一點的話其實過去8年當你們在國會完全多數的時候只要其中一任、其中一屆、其中一個會期能夠把它提出來的話都可以順利三讀通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
22005.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
22034.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以我現在真的還是很誠摯的呼籲台灣是需要往前走的今天我們要創一個歷史就是讓我們的公益揭弊者保護法能夠正式的三讀通過並且能夠對於社會大眾清楚明白的交代跟認識當我們的社會越來越進步越來越往前的時候我們更加的宣示我們拒絕任何的弊案、弊端而如果說有任何弊案、弊端的話我們鼓勵內部的民眾可以勇於爆料讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
22035.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
22038.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
公部門任何弊案無所遁形謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
22067.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
22089.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝主席還有在場的所有委員早上聽到現在我們校進入了第四條的這樣的一個主條我看國民黨的朋友上來非常心虛進入了主條以後我倒還沒有看到你們針對真正的條文一條一條去看看為什麼要有這個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
22091.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
22099.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
的一個意義立法的一個規範跟這樣的一個價值或者法律規定以後到底有沒有什麼的缺漏我都沒有聽到這個這上來就聽到裡面講了一堆屁話 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
22103.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
22123.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
真正整個條文在規定些什麼你根本連知道也不知道按照國民黨的版本就很簡單公部門的主管單位還有國營事業主管檢查機關司法警察跟目的事業主管兼裁員跟政風機構這個我來幫你們看你們的條文台灣民眾黨是檢調司法跟目的事業主管機關兼裁員跟政風 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
22124.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
22147.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
施部門團體跟僱主相關企業主管的部分台灣民眾黨提出了一個修正民主進步黨是被揭弊者所屬的公部門所屬的機關檢調跟司法目的社會主管機關監察院跟政風這些條文其實大家可以一條一條真正的進入整個主條去做討論的那到了整個山獨到整個院會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
22148.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
22173.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這做主條了國民黨團還是如此的一個空泛對整個條文還是完全沒有去做一個深入啊你要去看看這幾個條文它真正的差別意義在什麼地方啊所以我為什麼說你在野黨你根本就完全沒有對整個條文深入去做一個討論還要也沒有去考慮到其他政黨的一個意見真正第四條最主要的一個核心意義在於哪一個地方呢要去討論的是我們辦了公聽以後學者專家把提出他的意見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
22174.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
22198.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們還是連看都不給人家看這個是很糟糕的地方啊就變成整個讓這一次啊揭弊者法案在整個協商裡面啊變成是一個立法院對立法院來講是形同巨文啊所以啊我要提出來就是說台灣民眾黨他主張公部門跟市部門都可以納入國民黨啊下車了你們是變成公部門跟國營事業主管負責了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
22200.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
22210.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
上來應該講講看啊為什麼你的法案去退縮啦民進黨是主張公部門跟揭弊事業所屬的政府機關去做負責我再次強調啊民進黨對這個版本我們到現在還認為我們是比較周全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
22214.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
22231.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
如果還要進一步考慮揭弊事項並非揭弊案的話如何去保證被揭弊者的對象不會受無辜的牽連這一點本席倒是完全表達贊同那在我的角度看起來受理單位先定在公部門而且特別去規定有 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
22232.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
22250.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
被揭弊者所屬的部門負責至少有兩個比較明確的一個優點就是說你公部門負責能夠有效地避免未經查證的內容過度去曝光的一個風險這是第一個我相信各個政黨都會去體驗到的另外就是限定揭弊者所屬的部門只有相關部門才可以去接 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
22276.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
22276.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
好,謝謝專委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
22279.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
22282.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
現在登記發言的委員發言完畢我們進行處理按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
22400.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
22403.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
董事長、董事長、董事長、董事長、董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
22713.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
22726.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
好按鈴7分鐘到請問各位有沒有拿到表決卡請確認一下表決卡也請議事人員幫忙確認一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
22728.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
22743.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
如果都有表決卡我們現在進行表決現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團再修正統一條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
22820.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
22845.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
報告院會表決結果出席106人、贊成8人、反對48人、棄權50人報告院會本案表決結果可否兩方均未過半數依規定應重新表決重新表決時以多數為可決現在進行重新表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
22910.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
22927.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
蔡委員亦於聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄表決結果出席107人、贊成8人、反對49人、棄權50人、贊成則少數台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第四條條文不通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
22939.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
22946.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動力條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
23021.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
23027.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
表決結果出席107人、贊成58人、反對49人、贊成者多數第4條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間1分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
23113.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
23117.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
重複表決結果出席107人、贊成59人、反對48人、贊成者多數第四條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過請宣讀第五條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
23136.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
23166.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第5條本法所稱揭弊者只有事實合理相信存在第三條所定之弊案據明向前條第一項受理揭弊機關檢舉會議第6條規定提出檢舉者本法所稱揭弊者之密切關係人指揭弊者之配偶之系血親、三親等內旁系血親、二親等內姻親或家長、家屬與其定有婚約者或其他身份上或生活上有密切利害關係之人 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
23167.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
23190.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
國民黨黨團再修正動議第5條本法所稱揭弊者如下依公部門揭弊者、指公務員或接受政府機關構僱用、定作、委任、派遣、承攬、特約或其他契約關係而提供勞務或致報酬之相對人及其員工有適時合理銷信政府機關構或其員工其他公務員設有第三條所列之弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
23191.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
23209.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
具名項檢調第一項受理揭弊機關提出檢舉者二、國營事業受政府控制之事業、團體或機構揭弊者只接受國營事業受政府控制之事業、團體或機構之派任、僱用、定作、委任派遣、傳染、特約或其他契約關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
23211.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
23240.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
而提供勞務或致報酬之相對人及其員工有適時合理相信任職或提供勞務對象之事業、團體或機構或其員工甚有第3條、第5款、第7款或第8款致弊案具名項檢調第一項之受理揭弊機關提出檢舉者前項第一款所任公務員、系指政務官及各級民意代表以外依法令從事與公務之人員本法所任政府機關構、系指中央與各級地方政府機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
23241.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
23259.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
行政法人、公立學校、公立醫療院所公營事業、政府宣註制裁判法人本法所稱國營事業,細指《國營事業管理法》第3條所規定之事業本法所稱受政府控制之事業、團體或機構,細指全序部公告之政府及其所屬營業基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
23260.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
23282.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
非營業基金轉投資金額累計賺該事業資本額20%以上之轉投資或在轉投資事業受政府直接或直接控制其人事、財務或業務之轉投資或在轉投資事業團體或機構前項事業團體或機構之揭弊現與弊案原因發生時屬於公告所列之事業團體或機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
23284.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
23301.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
民進黨黨團再修正動議第5條本法所稱揭弊者指下列人員之一有適時合理銷行政府機關購或其員工其他公務員設有弊案具名像受理揭弊機關揭弊者公務員政府機關購自行禁用之人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
23302.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
23324.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
三、接受政府機關構補助之相對人及其員工四、與政府機關構具有僱用、定作、違任或其他契約關係而或是報酬或對價之相對人及其員工五、各級民意代表之助理前向第一款所稱公務員、指證務官及各級民意代表以外只依法令從事於公務之人員宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
23328.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
23355.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
林委員郡縣聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄現在請吳春城委員發言時間3分鐘好不發言嗎好吳委員不發言下一位我們請沈伯陽委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
23373.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
23384.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
好,謝謝主席那因為我感冒,我不想把病毒弄到這個上面所以講話有點不清楚,不好意思但我還是要告訴大家為什麼這個法條這個法律是一個沒有充分被討論的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
23386.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
23412.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我現在講的其實我在協商的時候在主條的時候都講過了但完全沒有得到任何的修正我先講往前一點大家要知道吹哨者保護法或者揭弊者保護法它的立法非常重要的一個目的是因為兩個要件第一個它可能是在封閉型的群體所以我們外界無法得知證據第二個它有可能是在共犯裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
23413.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
23442.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
但因為在歷史的發展裡面漸漸的發現非共犯的人他也想要揭弊所以在整個全世界在設計揭弊者的時候呢會去區分共犯跟非共犯但我們看一下我們現在大家手邊的這個第五條齁這個第五條第一個外部的檢舉跟內部的這一個所謂的揭弊這個是國民黨版本有分民眾黨版本沒有分但再往下細分之後呢它是共犯還是非共犯這個沒有區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
23443.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
23455.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這個在立法技術上面其實是非常拙劣的更不要講說我們前面第三條已經過去了我也來不及講了第三條最後踩的是國民黨的版本國民黨的版本有列反滲透法 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
23455.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
23472.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
列了反滲透法再搭配現在這個法律會變什麼呢?會變共匪就在你身邊啊這其實對這個社會是很不健康的事情我即使是一個非常重視國家安全的人我也不認為應該用揭弊者保護法 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
23473.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
23492.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
放反滲透法相關的進去理由很簡單大家去看美國美國是揭弊者保護法走的最極端的國家大家去看Snowden的案件他是一個國安的案件他本來應該在揭弊者被保護但你看他現在跑到俄羅斯了嘛他沒有辦法再繼續下去了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
23493.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
23511.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
為何就是因為他會有一個國家權利的問題這一個問題設計在法條上面只要沒有配套措施就會完蛋然後更不要講我們現在看到第5條我是覺得如果我們真的就因為這樣表決下去這一個重要的保護法會一直出問題喔第一個第5條沒有列明帶的助理 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
23512.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
23529.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
也就是明代的助理沒有辦法做揭弊第二個大家看立法技術多拙劣他說委任派遣承攬特約或其他……而提供勞務而是且嘛所以如果你又提供勞務之下提供勞務就不包含前面的委任跟承攬 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
23530.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
23554.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那你這樣的話就變成你前面裂了你後面也裂了但後面會排斥前面的這個就沒有辦法進行下去啊還有20%的投資在權序部裡面他是因為公務人員做兼職的規定並得讓他重複去領這個報酬這個跟你是不是政府控制是完全無關的事情這是非常拙劣的立法技術拜託大家在投票之前要深思謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
23559.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
23570.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好,謝謝沈委員登記發言委員已發言完畢現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
23649.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
23671.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
表決結果出席106人、贊成8人、反對49人、棄權49人報告委員會本案表決結果可否兩方均未過半數依規定應重新表決重新表決時以多數為可決現在進行重新表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
23745.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
23745.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
23749.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
23761.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
重新表決結果出席107人、贊成8人、反對49人、棄權50人、贊成者少數台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第五條條文不通過現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
23779.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
23779.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
韓國瑜議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
23854.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
23864.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
表決結果出席107人、贊成58人、反對49人、贊成者多數第五條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
23946.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
23951.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
重複表決出席107人、贊成58人、反對49人、贊成者多數第五條照國民黨黨團再修正動力條文通過請宣讀第六條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
23962.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
23991.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
臺灣民眾黨黨團修正動議第6條國民黨黨團修正臺灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第6條國民黨黨團再修正動議第6條揭弊者向受理揭弊機關揭弊後未於20日內或受理調查之通知經促請辦理後於10日內仍未獲回應得在具名向效力人員或法人揭弊自其向原受理揭弊機關揭弊時起依本法規定保護之 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
23992.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
24007.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
一、中央或地方民意代表二、具公司單記之媒體業者三、具法人單記之公益團體揭弊者向受理揭弊機關揭弊後6個月內未獲調查結果之通知經促請辦理後逾10日內仍未獲回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
24008.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
24036.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
德在具名項前向人員或法人揭弊自其向原受理揭弊機關揭弊時期受本法之保護揭弊者未依第4條規定揭弊而先向第一項人員或法人揭弊第一項人員或法人受理後應於10日內轉由受理揭弊機關辦理經調查後發現揭弊屬實者自其向第一項人員或法人揭弊時期受本法之保護揭弊者經原受理揭弊機關受理調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
24037.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
24063.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
委長吳時俊之解案通知後再向其向人員或法人揭弊者以該案令經起訴還起訴直宣不起訴申請檢疫判決處刑裁定准予自訴、懲戒、懲處、懲罰彈劾、糾正、糾舉或行政法患者違憲依本法規定保護之民進黨黨團再修正動議第6條不予訂定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
24067.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
24094.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好,現在請王委員逸川發言時間3分鐘這個揭弊者保護法我都支持但是最沒有資格談揭弊者保護法就是台灣民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
24096.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
24116.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
因為這扣分者擲擊貪污的事啊,內地驚出來的人叫朱雅芙朱雅芙想去做的要緊保護的叫台灣民眾黨這兩天一定不會朱雅芙吼吼,這個朱雅芙因為去中國去那邊跑,還要報復審慶金,把扣分者整天丟下去這句話是民眾黨的反國常說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
24121.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
24127.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
你這裏保護呢?你這裏保護朱雅雲呢?你這裏保護朱雅雲呢?你這裏保護朱雅雲呢?你這裏保護朱雅雲呢?你這裏保護朱雅雲呢?你這裏保護朱雅雲呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
24138.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
24154.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
第三位是邵秀佩,這也要報告第四位是黨營事業負責人李文娟,牧口的負責人,她也很精彩這張圖也算要報告,因為遭到私人公司也要有同樣揭弊第五位 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
24161.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
24171.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
代理人這座也要代理人就是那些尼亞的10位負責人當時政體現金有沒有來對報的發表啊報得不對若沒有代理人出來講這間也不會變的這15人公司的這也要報喔再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
24178.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
24191.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
因為民眾黨的東綱有陳志涵、吳亦軒、許甫去幫木可公司蓋小東西、帶貨、操用這操用引起民眾黨的東綱說我們都沒抽、我們都沒抽、我們都沒抽所以像這種的、這三個、這也要補回來因為民眾黨專門保護法你知道嗎?黃國昌竟然洩英勇事件大家記住 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
24206.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
24212.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
謝英雄事件是否有人去分別說白雲有一個人對這個所謂的百分之五出色結果這個黃國昌白衣紗偷渣就叫謝英雄起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
24223.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
24234.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我肯定的說,協議員這都不要張揚,這障礙者你也有人說的,這事情也有人說的我們都不張揚,做成協議不張揚,這保護障礙者他們都沒去處理到這個分別的,這吹哨者所以今天他們最沒資格推動這個揭弊者保護的,就是台灣民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
24246.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
24256.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這國民黨體統這我傳給你支持國民黨這點就做得到國民黨這點就做得到民進黨這點就做得到什麼主計都是這個議員的主席、夾擊、貪污的這個台灣民眾黨啦好 謝謝下一位請黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
24282.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
24297.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
珍惜本院的委員今天下午在這邊進行的吹哨者保護法出現了一個非常有趣的現象為什麼我說出現一個非常有趣的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
24298.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
24324.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這個禮拜二在後面的院長是要求禮拜二不可以進行吹哨者保護法跟全國人民承諾說禮拜五一定要完成吹哨者保護法而簽了字的民主進步黨他們現在在議場裡面做什麼事情呢他們違反了禮拜二簽的協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
24325.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
24352.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所有毫不重複表決現在透過發言要延宕時間然後現在所有民進黨很多立委拿著民進黨側翼的媒體叫做靖州刊拉得很高想要笑我們的主席柯文哲但是他們不知道說最可笑的事情是什麼最可笑的事情是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
24353.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
24377.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
他們不知道他們現在手上拿著這個黨檢媒一體所出來的抹黑文宣證實了什麼?證實了他們要抹黑柯文哲主席無所不用其極他們要掩飾什麼?他們要掩飾臺北地檢署在賴清德的指令之下他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
24379.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
24397.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
說柯文哲有受賄的證據有多麼蒼白有多麼無力我們回到今天的主題揭弊者保護法請所有關心揭弊者保護法的公民今天要看清楚今天要看清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
24398.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
24423.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
口口聲聲說知情說不反對揭弊者保護法的民主進步黨今天是想要透過什麼樣子的程序想要透過什麼樣子的杯葛想要透過違反自己所簽的協議要阻礙這一個立法完成三讀我現在在上面講話有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
24426.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
24448.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
一直在下面叫囂的人叫做林淑芬大家也都知道在議場裡面發言別人在發言不要吵鬧是基本的禮貌那但是林淑芬在這邊往一直在這邊進行整個議事程序欸不要不要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
24449.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
24476.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
不要!不要!不要!不要!請大家尊重他們要藉故製造衝突想要揭弊揭弊者保護法我們請尊重發言人的發言請各位回答這件事我們今天的任務非常的清楚幫民眾黨完成吹哨者保護法的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
24479.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
24500.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好 謝謝黃委員我們請大家尊重大家發言請尊重大家發言的權利好不好好報告院會報告院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
24502.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
24518.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
請各位都先回座我們現在進行處理因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議條文相同所以一併處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
24519.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
24523.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
24613.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
24621.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
表決結果出席106人贊成59人反對49人贊成者多數第6條照台灣民眾黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
24712.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
24722.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
總部表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數第六條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過請宣讀委員楊瓊瓔第四條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
24733.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
24753.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等21人提案第4條、委員林月琴等17人提案第7條、台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議不予增訂委員楊瓊瓔等21人提案第4條、委員林月琴等17人提案第7條、國民黨黨團再修正動議不予增定 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
24755.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
24784.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等21人提案第4條、委員林月琴等17人提案第7條民進黨黨團再修正動議不予訂定宣讀完畢現在請張委員齊凱發言好,張委員不發言下一位請蔡育宇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
24787.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
24787.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
時間3分鐘主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
24807.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
24833.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那我們現在今天在處理這個揭弊者保護法那這個第7條勒跟楊瓊瓔的第4條跟我們林月琴委員第7條的版本基本上是一樣的文字那整個揭弊者勒事實上最大的爭議點就在於說公部門大家沒有意見那就私部門的部分我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的一個揭弊者 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
24834.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
24853.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
因為我們在過去的很多實務上都知道說事實上很多中小企業包括台灣有167萬間中小企業他們的生存基本上非常的重要那如果是有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟跟他們的企業如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
24854.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
24875.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
有離職或者是怎樣的一個狀況之下然後去做一些不實的指控但是這個指控在被查證之前被證實是否是正確之前它都是變成一個揭弊者的一個角色那這樣一個揭弊者的角色如果在這個揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下變得這個企業上 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
24877.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
24903.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
在於說要把事情要把它舉證到最後的水落石出這個需要時間那這就會無形中傷害了這些企業所以我們在過去的很多經驗也知道很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班而不是一次你就想要把什麼都又放進來那等到了後來在試用上產生狀況的時候大家就會發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
24904.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
24928.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候然後有所謂的這個檢舉達人在當時檢舉達人發生了後事實上後來也是要透過再次的修法去調整這個交通事件哪些是適用檢舉達人所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法基本上大家都有這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
24929.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
24945.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
方向我們要來完成這樣的立法但是在這個立法的過程中內我們也知道到底哪一些人哪一些人事物應該是要被保護那我現在也舉一個例子嘛最近都有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
24948.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
24965.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
當時有一個叫做端木正的當端木正在說他在處理政治先驚民眾黨的政治先驚有狀況的時候我看到了黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託直接叫律師告他 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
24966.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
24986.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
直接叫律師告他這輛車上是在保護揭弊者嗎?最近有一個豬鴨虎那黃國昌長的口氣真好說他是報復省契金民眾黨不會做事不管等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的一個揭弊者給他壓力所以我是覺得非常的諷刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
25014.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
25039.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好 謝謝登記委員已發言完畢報告委員會本條因台灣民眾黨、國民黨、民進黨、商黨團再修正動議均相同我們就無意照三黨黨團再修正動議不予增訂通過請宣讀第八條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
25044.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
25071.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第7條受理揭弊機關對揭弊事由應為調查宣讀更正台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第7條國民黨黨團再修正動議第7條受理揭弊機關對揭弊事由應為調查並得要求揭弊者涉嫌事業單位或機關構等關係人 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
25072.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
25097.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
提供相關事證配合調查涉案關係人非有正當理由不得拒絕受理揭弊機關基於證據保全於法院判決前得向法院申請扣押轉用刑事訴訟法第133條之規定委員林月琴等17人提案第8條民進黨黨團再修正動議不予訂定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
25101.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
25127.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
報告委員會現有林月琴委員撤回所提第8條條文請務委員會對林月琴委員撤回第8條條文有異議沒有異議嗎好無異議林月琴委員撤回第8條條文通過所以就不予處理現在請莊委員瑞雄發言時間3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
25151.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
25153.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
謝謝主席還有我們在場的委員剛剛啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
25155.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
25167.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
總算我們這一部揭弊者法案的先知我們林月琴委員她的版本第8條被撤回來了本來在委員會司法法制委員會在審這個條文的時候我們召開的公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
25170.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
25196.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那召開完公定會以後呢李月琴委員認為說他的第8條他認為欠缺考慮但是呢國民黨跟台灣民眾黨啊就在程序委員會啊就認為我就不讓你撤我就偏偏要通過你這一條好了在司法法制委員會裡面呢把李月琴委員的第8條你把它放到第7條以後那你乖乖的今天還不提出一個修正案嗎這個是非常的一個荒唐那我相信呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
25198.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
25207.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
不管是台灣民眾黨尤其是中國國民黨第8條的規範你們真的要這樣讓他通過嗎我必須要提出來的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
25208.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
25222.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
他整個第8條的規定裡面啊就是說你這個扣押的一個整個政務的一個扣押你到底是不是要去准用啊《刑訴訴訟法》第133條就講得這麼簡單《刑訴訴訟法》裡面啊整個搜索跟扣押從122條到153條之十國民黨的朋友你聽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
25233.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
25252.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
你為什麼122到153你不去準用你就挑了一個133條出來要來準用讓我請問啊如果今天是屬於機關揭弊受揭弊的機關不管是國防部或者外交部他自己來扣押自己的東西通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
25253.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
25264.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們在整個在整個行政部門裡面它可不像司法機關或者檢察機關它是一個偵查的一個主體法院只是開狀它是一個另狀主義 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
25266.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
25288.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
今天如果是受理機關他認為說這個證據應該要去扣押或者說有人犯了弊案那這個錢已經轉到轉到哪裡去啊轉到謝鴻介那邊去好了誒 怪啦行政部門就可以直接拿著令狀跑到謝鴻介家去把這個財產給扣押第三人可以這樣扣押嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
25289.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
25315.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
所以我的意思就是說啊這一部法令啊要好好的去我們這次修法要好好去反省啊尤其坐在我左邊這一排的你們根本就不知道今天在審理的是什麼第八條拜託啊真的是拜託不要就點點啦我就跟你講啦這一部法令裡面啊你們當初去踩林月琴的版本你們就錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
25317.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
25335.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
因為專家學者都提出示警了林月琴也撤回了你們把他搞得林月琴變成一個先知然後你帶著大家好像藍白聯手大家一起湊民進黨才沒有像你們這麼糊塗啊講個理由啊為什麼整個搜索扣押好謝謝張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
25348.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
25368.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
下一位請黃國昌委員發言黃國昌委員不發言登記委員發言完畢報告院會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第7條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第7條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
25451.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
25462.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
表決結果出席107人、贊成58人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第7條條文通過現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
25545.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
25548.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第7條條文通過請宣讀委員楊瓊瓔第5條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
25565.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
25592.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等21人提案第5條委員林月琴等17人提案第9條台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議不予增訂委員楊瓊瓔等21人提案第5條委員林月琴等17人提案第9條國民黨黨團再修正動議不予增訂委員楊瓊瓔等21人提案第5條委員林月琴等17人提案第9條民進黨黨團再修正動議不予定定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
25595.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
25600.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
現在請黃國昌委員發言黃國昌委員不在下一位請陳俊宇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
25628.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
25657.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
好主席我們在場所有的委員及媒體先進大家好從今天我們討論的過程中可以看到各黨對於完善揭弊者保護都持正面的態度那從每一條的條文所規範的相關內容其實都會對於未來運作上有重大的影響從立法模式到主管機關還有這個弊端的範圍到揭弊者的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
25658.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
25667.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
及權益保障等目前各黨團修正的動議內容甚至影響的範圍都還是存在不少的差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
25668.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
25691.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
在未達成社會共識前的這個立法所可能造成的相關疑慮我想也應一併的考量正因為揭弊者保護法對於提供安心揭弊勇敢揭弊的這個環境甚為重要更是希望立法時能討論出一個最能夠執行而且不容易被濫用的一個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
25692.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
25708.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那今天在草野協商的一個共識之下即將二三讀完成揭弊者保護法的立法各黨團也提出了各自版本的修正動議所規範的相關的範圍仍然存在的歧義還是希望能夠更審慎的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
25711.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
25721.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
讓立法細緻周詳、整體架構更加的完整進而使這個利益良善的法律在未來能夠給予揭弊者全面的一個保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
25724.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
25741.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那接下來我所要講的是針對楊瓊瓔委員等人所提出的第五條內容條文本身所要處理的是有關於受理揭弊相關不處理的消極要件部分對於揭弊無具體的內容或虛偽不實等情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
25743.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
25770.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
受理揭弊機關得不予處理我們也支持尊重對於本條文的良善利益但也要參照到民進黨團所提出的修正動議第15條對於規範的內容、文字和但書能夠更加的完整而揭弊者若不是明知不實或是出於惡意而是基於事實合理、相信而揭弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
25771.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
25779.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
政府既應該要保護揭弊者的權益也應該要避免非所謂檢舉人遭受到不利的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
25780.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
25808.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
而明定受理揭弊機關不予處理的情形則更能夠兼顧調查資源合理的運用進一步免去要求書面通知而造成主管機關應付這個濫訴案件所造成的麻煩那我們為避免不必要的腐爛檢舉或同性質的這種行業間的惡性競爭造成社會對立或仇視破壞和諧的氣氛 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
25818.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
25836.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好,謝謝陳委員登記發言委發言完畢報告委員會本條因台灣民眾黨、國民黨、民進黨三黨團在修正動議均相同我們就無意遭三個黨團在修正動議不予徵定通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
25839.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
25865.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
現在請宣讀委員吳宗憲第7條等提案台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第8條國民黨黨團再修正動議第8條政府機關過法人或團體個人不得因揭弊者有下列行為而對其採行不律之措施一、揭發第三條所列弊案二、配合弊案之調查或擔任證人 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
25866.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
25882.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
3、拒絕參與閉案之決定或實施4、因前三款事作為而遭受不利措施後依法提起就計前項所稱不利措施指下列情形之一1、解職、撤職、免職、停職、解約、降調或不利之考機、懲處、懲罰及評定 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
25885.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
25903.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
2、減薪奉、罰款薪、剝奪或減少獎金、退休職務金3、與身兼有關之教育或訓練機會、福利、特殊學歷之剝奪4、工作地點、職務內容或其他工作條件、管理措施之不利變更5、非依法令規定揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
25903.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
25929.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
揭弊者之身份因第一項各款行為而受不利措施者等為效力請求一、回復其受不利措施前之職位及職務其原職位已補缺或經裁撤者回復至相當之職位及職務二、回復其原有年資、特殊權利、獎金、退休職務金、福利、工作條件及管理措施三、受不利措施期間奉行及或工資之補發及採取上 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
25932.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
25947.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
損害之賠償﹚四、受有身體、健康、名譽、自由、信用、隱私或其他人格、法義之侵害者﹚雖非採取上至損害亦得請求賠償相當之金額﹚其名譽被侵害者並得請求為回復名譽之適當處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
25950.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
25970.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
前項第三款鎖定財產上損害之賠償包括奉行及獲工資以外其他其他利益之合理估算金額及遭受不利措施後依法提起救濟所合理支出之費用及律師酬金第二項鎖定不利措施之爭議應先由受不利措施之人證明下令請示 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
25971.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
25986.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
一、有第一項各款之行為二、有遭受第二項之不利措施三、第一款行為之發生時間在第二款不利措施之前受不利措施之認為前上聲明後推定為有違反本條第一項規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
25987.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
26007.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
但任職制政府機關構法人團體或其主管故處證明縱無該等行為其與當時仍有正當理由採相同之人事措施者不在此限定有禁止揭弊者為第一項更換行為之約定或限制揭弊者依第三項、第四項為請求之權利者其約定無效 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
26009.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
26030.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
民進黨黨團再修正動議第6條政府機關構法人或團體、個人不得因前條第一項各款所列人員以下檢測內部人員有下列行為之一而意圖報復對其採行不利措施一、揭發弊案二、配合弊案之調查或擔任證人三、拒絕參與弊案之決定或實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
26031.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
26050.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
四、因前三款之作為而遭受不利措施後依法提起就計前項所生不利措施指下列情形之一一、解職、撤職、免職、停職、解約、降調或不利之口及承處、懲罰及平定二、解信奉、罰款薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
26051.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
26077.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
剝奪或減少獎金、退休職務金、增與身陷有關的教育或訓練機會、福利、特殊學歷之剝奪、是工作地點職務的人或其他工作條件、管理措施之不利變更五、非依法令規定揭露揭弊者之身份應有提向更管行為之一而受不利措施之內部人員等為下列請求一、回復其受不利措施前之職位及職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
26078.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
26094.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
其原職位以補償或經財撤者回復這相當之職位及職務二、回復其原有之年資、特殊學歷、獎金、退休職務金、福利、工作條件及管理措施三、受福利措施期間奉薪及或工資之補發及財產上損害之賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
26097.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
26126.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
四、授有身體、健康、名譽、自由、信用、隱私或其他人格法益之侵害者,雖非財產上之損害,亦得請求賠償相當之金額,其名譽被侵害者,並得請求為回復名譽之適當處分。請向第三管所定義財產上的損害之賠償,包括奉信及或工資以外其他期待利益之合理估算金額及遭受不利措施後依法提起究竟所合理支出之必要費用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
26127.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
26136.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
定有競爭內部人員為第一項更換行為之約定者,其約定無效宣討完畢現在請中委員嘉賓發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
26154.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
26176.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
主席這堂委員先進從第一條到七條我想大家都目前都不傻傻幫各位科普一下今天不管是國民黨民眾黨的第一條是什麼揭弊者閉案是公部門還是公部門加國營事業還是要包含私營部門民眾黨堅持要連私部門國民黨說國營事業控股公司就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
26177.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
26204.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
第二條是主管機關法務部這沒意見第三條閉案是哪些?掳掠了很多法律條文違反就算閉案但是民眾黨我上午說了他偷藏了一個他把私部門收縮木可公司資本和未達益沒有接避的範圍重慶基金會他呢雖然他不是公部門雖然他有點是黨營事業不在這個範圍不能查他的閉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
26205.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
26221.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
國民黨這邊是怎麼樣呢?國民黨第4條是受理弊案機關很奇怪兩黨都很共識政風機關、司法檢調機關還有什麼?監察院兩黨不是說監察院多餘的嗎?監察院可以受理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
26222.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
26252.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
第5條很特別第5條就是所謂我們避案我們要怎麼去處理國民黨認為他把他限縮什麼叫國營失業什麼叫做這個揭弊者必須在哪些地方存在民眾很特別他的揭弊者不都是內部的任何人只要有事實、合理、相信存在就可以成為揭弊者只要你有科學理性物質就可以揭弊者嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
26252.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
26277.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
木可公司可以成為任何BN的揭弊者然後第6條是第二層的受理揭弊機關第二層是什麼意思只要是什麼只要是媒體、公司登記的媒體還有公益團體都可以成為受理機關現在第7條最嚴重了第7條是什麼這個受理揭弊的機關可以對揭弊的對象進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
26279.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
26306.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好厲害啊第二層的媒體跟公益團體可以對揭弊有弊案的公司進行調查按照民眾黨的邏輯台積電可不可以有弊案有資本額1億元以上揭弊者是誰木可公司可以做揭弊者他向誰去揭弊他向重信基金會公益團體揭弊然後重信基金會就可以要求台積電接受他的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
26306.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
26322.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
不得拒絕天啊揭弊者保護法是要保護那些因為在公部門內部勇於檢舉他必須要被保護的人要保護的是揭弊者不是給你受理揭弊機關去調查弊案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
26323.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
26352.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我們民眾黨黃國昌這麼喜歡調查弊案當立委要調查權都被憲法法庭打回票了現在用木可公司做檢舉向重信基金會檢舉就可以調查台積電的弊案好 謝謝莊委員下一位請黃國昌委員發言黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在登記發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
26354.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
26370.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
委員均已發言完畢報告委員會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第8條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第8條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間1分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
26451.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
26457.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團在修正動議第8條條文通過現有民進黨黨團要求提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
26546.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
26551.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
重複表決結果出席108人贊成59人反對49人贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第8條條文通過請宣讀民進黨黨團再修正動議第7條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
26568.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
26595.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
民進黨黨團在修正動議第7條前條第二項鎖定不利措施之爭議應先由受不利措施之內部人員證明下列情勢一、有前條第一項之行為二、遭受前條第二項之不利措施三、第一款行為之發生時間在遣款不利措施之前內部人員為前項證明後該等措施推定為違反前條第一項規定但任職之政府機關構、法人團體或其主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
26595.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
26610.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
僱主證明做無該等行為其餘當時仍有正當理由採相同之措施者不在此限宣讀完畢現在請黃國昌委員發言黃國昌委員不發言下一位請鍾嘉斌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
26626.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
26650.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
主席、現場的委員先進很抱歉我必須這樣說今天雖然有國民黨跟民眾黨有黨的提案但是看到目前為止只有民進黨的再修正動議比較正常一點我們的再修正動議包含了幾個部分避案就是以公部門先行第二主管機關、法務部沒有吝嗇一些新成立的委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
26651.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
26674.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
第3我們認為閉案的範圍很清楚的就是以刑事不法為主要對象第4說到我們的受理機關就嚴格限制已有司法警察等相關的有公權力的機關第5我們認為揭弊者就很清楚的限制那範圍我們沒有去說受理揭弊的機關我們也沒有第6條什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
26676.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
26701.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
媒體公司、公益法人都可以作為受理揭弊的機關限定在這些具有公權力的機關然後第6條第7條明文的表示對於揭弊者本身他受到的不利的處分給予他的保障因為目前已經有《證人保護法》但是《證人保護法》只能保障他的生命安全《證人保護法》只能對他的身份進行保密 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
26703.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
26724.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
但是因為揭弊者有可能在他所處的公部門受到不利的處分被調職、被霸凌因此民進黨很正常的、很務實的我們提出了這些相關的再修正動議那我怕剛剛講得太快大家沒聽清楚為什麼在國眾兩黨的條文當中尤其是民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
26725.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
26739.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
可以讓穆可公司根據他們的第五條科學理性務實就可以成為揭弊者不用是弊案機關本身的內部人員外部機關也可以來揭弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
26740.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
26765.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
被揭弊的公司比如說資本額1億元以上的台積電只要你被木可公司揭弊然後呢他們去監察院不受理他第二層在第六條他去找誰他去找公益團體剛巧台北市有一個登記叫做眾望關懷基金會公益團體木可公司去向 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
26766.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
26770.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
眾信基金會根據剛剛通過的第7條就可以要求台積電不得拒絕調查天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
26781.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
26810.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我要再說一次天啊民眾黨的黃國昌這麼喜歡查弊案國民黨還要附和你們的條文也是這樣你難道沒有發現自從憲法法庭宣判宣布你們的國會立職法你們的調查權不得侵犯其他憲法機關不得侵犯司法調查權你們現在呢重啟爐灶用揭弊者保護法來行使讓木可公司的弊案調查權再次說好可 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
26812.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
26823.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
好 謝謝鍾委員現在表決民進黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
26900.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
26908.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
表決結果出席107人、贊成49人、反對58人、贊成者少數民進黨黨團在修正動議條文不通過現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
26993.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
26997.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
重複表決結果出席108人、贊成49人、反對59人、贊成者少數民進黨黨團在修正動議條文不通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第8條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
27012.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
27036.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第9條國民黨黨團再修正動議第9條據公務員身份之人應受第8條第二項第一款之第四款不利措施者應依其原有身份關係需用之法律程序提起行政救濟所申同條第三項第三款及第四款之賠償請求權自政府機關構依第二項主張作成回復原狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
27037.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
27057.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
行政究竟為由理由之決定確定之日起因第2條第2項第5款不利措施所深知賠償請求權自知悉事實發生之日起6個月間不審時而消滅自損害發生時期逾2年者一同公務員與申訴再申訴、副審、訴願、評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
27060.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
27076.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
全屆行政訴訟或其他人事行政行為救濟程序中主張其有第8條第一項各款行為者而遭移送或受有不利措施者應先與其他事證而為調查並依調查集會而為成立或不成立均設定 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
27077.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
27106.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
據公務員身份之受不利措施者主張其應有第8條第一項更緩之行為而遭移送懲戒經懲戒法院審理後認定其依前項之主張成立並為不受懲戒之判決確定者亦得請求第8條第三項第三緩及第4緩之賠償並準用第一項實效之規定第一項及前項請求權之行使不妨礙依民法、國家賠償法或其他法律所得行使之權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
27107.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
27107.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
立法院議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
27108.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
27137.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
民進黨黨團在修正動議第8條具公務員身份之內部人員授有第6條第二項第一款制、第四款制不力措施因依其原有身份關係適用之法律程序提起行政求記所申同條第三項第三款及第四款制賠償請求權自政府機關構做成回復原狀行政求記唯有理由之決定確定之日起六個月間不刑許而消滅自損害發生時期與二年者一同 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
27138.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
27154.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
據公務員身份之內部人員授有第6條第2項第5款之不利措施所申同條第3項第3款及第4款之賠償請求權自知悉事實發生之日起6個月間不刑署而消滅自損害發生時期與二年者一同 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
27155.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
27168.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
公務員於人事行政行為救濟程序中主張其有電流條定向更換行為之一而項有不利措施者應先與其他事證而為調查並依調查結果而為成立或不成立之認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
27169.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
27189.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
據公務員身份之內部人員主張其應有第六條第一項更換行為之一而遭移送懲戒經懲戒法院審理後認定其主張成立並為不受懲戒之判決確定者亦得請求同條第三項第四款及第四款之賠償並承用第一項十項之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
27192.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
27205.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
第一項、第二項及前項請求權之行使不妨礙依民法或其他法律所得行使之權利宣傳完畢好,現在請李委員昆城發言時間3分鐘好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
27220.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
27237.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
今天討論揭弊者保護法其實民進黨也支持揭弊者保護法我們也有自己的版本如果今天能夠順利通過的話可以說是各黨、三黨不同的版本旗下的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
27238.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
27260.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
雖然說我們對於國民黨的版本也有不同的意見比如說開宗明義的第一條這個適用範圍後來他們又加進去了這個受政府控制的事業那我看每個這個國民黨立委上來講的都沒有把這一條說得很清楚什麼叫做受政府控制的事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
27261.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
27276.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
都沒有講很清楚啊但是這是最重要的適用的第一條適用在哪些範圍公部門、國營事業那你們又加了一個受政府控制的事業但是到目前為止呢都沒有聽你們講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
27277.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
27299.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那所以呢 這個我們是支持我們是非常支持這個揭弊者保護法但是呢 這個民眾黨呢這個他們有提的版本但是我看民眾黨的版本喔好像蠻多條的都被國民黨丟包了我看很多表決的結果民眾黨就只有8票 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
27300.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
27317.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
但是把表決完8票之後我又看如果是國民黨的版本要投票的時候這8票又跳過去了其實民眾黨如果有自己的版本那應該要堅持自己的版本不要投到國民黨的版本的時候自己又投過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
27318.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
27337.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
這有點像是這一個換了斯德哥爾摩症你們已經自己被國民黨丟包了結果國民黨的版本出現的時候民眾黨還是去支持這個國民黨的版本所以我是建議這個其實民眾黨可以堅持自己的版本就從第一條開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
27339.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
27364.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這個私部門你們應該堅持就算通過版本沒有你們自己所堅持的私部門但是你們應該堅持這個從私部門就可以來做吹哨者所以包含這個政黨、民眾黨、包含穆可公司包含這個縱橫基金會都可以有吹哨者繼續再來吹哨因為這個就符合你們自己要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
27365.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
27391.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
這個司部門呢也可以有吹哨者也可以有揭弊者但是呢也希望你們對於這個吹哨者或是揭弊者呢要能夠保護他不要這個狹怨報復因為我看到你們這個目前對於在這個檢方的這個起訴書裡面有這個坦白從寬的包含這個朱雅虎包含彭正聲你們都這個不假顏色啊在批評他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
27392.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
27401.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這個吼,這個好像就是小院報復啦吼那所以呢,如果要堅持這個揭弊者保護法我希望民眾黨能夠堅持下去好,謝謝李委員下一位請黃國昌委員發言黃國昌委員不發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
27421.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
27435.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
登記發言委員發言完畢報告院會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提在修正動議第9條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團在修正動議第9條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
27519.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
27532.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團在修正動議第9條條文通過現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
27618.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
27624.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
重復表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第9條條文通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第9條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
27641.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
27669.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第10條國民黨黨團再修正動議第10條未具公務員身份之受不力措施者因僱主違反第8條第一項規定者得自知悉其情形之日期30日內不經預告終止勞動契約前項人員得請求僱主及父親適用《勞動基準法》、《勞工退休金條例》或其他法規所規定之資遣費、退休金及相當於6個月工資補償金 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
27670.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
27688.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
其請求權自勞動契約終止時期6個月間不行使而消滅未居公務員身份而受不利措施者所申第8條第3項之請求權自知悉事實發生之日起6個月間不行使而消滅自損害發生時期與二年者一同 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
27689.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
27703.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
於行使前二項祈求選擇救濟程序中,畏懼公務員身份之受不利措施者,主張其有第八條第一項更換行為者應先與其他事證而為調查,並依調查結果而為成立或不成立之認定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
27704.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
27730.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
第二項及第三項請求全職行使適用第8條第5項第6項之規定且不妨礙依民法或其他法律所得行使之權利依第8條第3項第一款附指顯有事實上之困難時務主得己負受不利措施者適用《勞動基準法勞工退休金條例》或其他法規所規定職資減費退休金即相當於12個月工資補償金和亦終止勞動契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
27731.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
27757.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
第二項及前項之補償金依受不利措施者為第8條第一項更換行為之前1月工資計算未居公務員身份之受不利措施者為政府、機關公、法人或團體編制內之領奉薪及而定有違準契約者得准用第二項、第四項之前項規定請求補償金但契約之約定有利於該受不利措施者從其約定 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
27759.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
27781.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
民進黨黨團再修正動議第9條未具公務員身份之內部人員因僱主違反第6條第一項規定者得自知悉其情形或損害結果之日期30日內不經預告終止勞動契約前項人員得請求僱主給付依其適用之法規所規定之資遣費退休金即不低於3個月工資補償金 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
27782.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
27802.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
其請求權自勞動契約終止時期6個月間步行使人消滅未具公務員身份之內部人員因受有不利措施所申第6條第3項之請求權自追緝事實發生之日起6個月間步行使人消滅自損害發生時期與二年者一同於薪水前2項請求權之救濟程序中 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
27803.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
27821.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
委具公務員身份之內部人員主張其有第6條第一項更款行為之一而受有不利措施者應先與其他事項為調查並依調查結果而為成立或不成立之認定第二項及第三項請求權之行事不妨礙依民法或其他法律所得行使之權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
27823.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
27843.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
依第6條第3項第一款付值顯有事實上之困難時,僱主等及副受護人依其需用之法規所規定是資遣費、退休金及不低於6個月工資補償金和依終止勞動契約第二項即前項制補償金依受護人為第6條第一項行為之前1月工資計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
27844.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
27865.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
未具公務員身份之內部人員為政府機關購法人或團體編制內之領奉新籍而定有委任契約者得准用第一項、第二項、第四項至前項規定請求補償金但契約約定更有利於該內部人員者從其約定宣讀完畢現在請黃國昌委員發言時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
27869.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
27874.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
三分鐘黃國昌委員不發言下一位我們請林柱英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
27890.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
27912.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
主席、大員同仁還有全國收看我們直播的所有全體國人大家午安在講本法條之前本席想要先向全國所有的媒體工作者致敬因為在揭弊法之前其實全國所有的媒體工作者他們就肩負起了揭弊的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
27913.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
27935.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
身為媒體出身媒體在身為第四權的時候他們不論是揭弊又或者是大家所說的爆料都是大膽假設小心求證我們希望在社會不公不義又或者是在面對有不法之事的時候我們能夠扮演角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
27936.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
27947.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
但是我們都知道除了本席之外其他兩個政黨也都有來自媒體的從業人員對於媒體的揭弊本席在這裡要特別的請黃國昌委員你能夠尊重媒體不要媒體今天拿出來的是你們內部民眾黨的不法你就扣帽子說人家是特定的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
27960.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
27973.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
也不要說你在口口聲聲要推動揭弊者保護法的同時面對你們黨主席柯文哲的弊案有人出來當吹哨者有人面對司法審判坦白從寬的時候你說人家是存心報復這不是諷刺什麼是諷刺這不是只有順我者昌逆我者亡什麼是順我者昌逆我者亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
27990.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
28017.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
對於媒體的報導應該要給予公平的評價所以在這裡我們討論到現在揭弊者的第9條第9條主要就是針對公務員的揭弊所提的法律保障跟救濟程序它主要的核心就是讓具有公務員身邊的揭弊者他們有堅實的法律後盾確保他們在揭弊不法的時候避免被報復 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
28019.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
28047.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
並維護應該要有的權利這一個第9條民進黨有提出其實民眾黨跟國民黨也都有類似的條文這就顯然健全公務人員的工作救濟保障程序並結合吹哨者保護的制度不僅是保障個人的權益更是促進行政部門透明跟彰顯社會正義的重要一環不過在這裡本席也要特別指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
28048.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
28071.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
民進黨一直是贊成在公部門進行揭弊因為私部門的揭弊常常會流於所謂的惡性競爭跟鬥爭過去我們在媒體也常常接到許多私部門的揭弊但是在這背後必須都要特別的謹慎小心保障公部門跟公務員揭弊為第一要務 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
28075.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
28090.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
好 謝謝林委員報告院會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第10條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第10條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始 時間1分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
28170.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
28176.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
28259.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
28264.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
重複表決結果初期108人贊成、59人反對、49人贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第10條條文通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第10條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
28281.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
28298.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第11條違反第8條第一項規定者擬具有公務員身份者案及情節輕重依公務員懲戒法、公務員口徑法或其他相關法規予以懲戒或懲處未具公務員身份之自然人或其他法人、團體者 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
28298.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
28324.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
由揭弊案件之各目的事業主管機關解附相關資料移送揭弊者保護委員會由揭弊者保護委員會除新台幣20萬元以上、2億元以下罰還但其他法律由較終之處罰規定者從其規定前向後段情形揭弊者保護委員會亦得現其命其改善藉其不改善者得依前向後段規定案次處罰至改善為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
28326.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
28353.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
國民黨黨團再修正動議第11條違反第8條第一項規定者依下列請行予以處罰一、有公務員身份者案其情節輕重公務員懲戒法、公務人員考記法或其相關法規予以懲戒或懲處二、未具公務員身份者自然人、國營事業、受政府控制之事業、團體或機構、有更目的事業主管機關處新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元相罰還 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
28354.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
28365.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
但其他法律有較重之處罰規定者從其規定前項第二款請行各目的事業主管機關得限其命其改善、限其不改善者按次處罰之 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
28367.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
28391.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
民進黨黨團在修正統議第10條違反第6條第一項規定而具有公務員身份者案其情節輕重依公務員懲戒法、公務人員考記法或其他相關法規予以懲戒或懲處未具公務員身份之人、法人、團體由各目的事業主管機關處信貸幣5萬元以上、500萬元下返還但其他法律有較重之處罰規定者從其規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
28392.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
28405.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
前向後段前行各目的事業主管機關財處返還後得令其限期改善,藉其為改善者按次處罰宣讀完畢現在請沈博洋委員發言時間3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
28427.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
28451.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
這一個剛剛已經講過很多次了所以還是一樣再提醒一次如此拙劣的立法如果通過的話在試用上會產生非常多的困難我不知道為什麼我們在每一條提出了那麼多的問題結果根本就沒有人上來回答這其實就是討論的假象剛剛前面有幾位委員說什麼委員會有討論有公聽會等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
28452.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
28472.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
工地會的結論你們沒有採啊委員會的結論你們也沒有採啊協商提出來的意見你們也沒有採啊那這樣的討論算什麼討論好不容易到二讀雖然有那麼多版本但至少條文還沒有採劃法那麼複雜我們在這邊每一條提出了那麼多的問題剛剛莊惠雄委員問為什麼要准用133請問到底誰回答了這個問題沒有人回答這個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
28480.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
28505.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
剛剛楚英委員講的第10條相當於6個月或12個月他完全失去了合意解約的彈性請問有人回答這個問題嗎?沒有啊最重要的是你們口口聲聲說要把國營企業納進來說國營企業裡面的貪污有多重要你知道剛剛在第5條的時候你們訂的國營企業的吹哨者沒有包含貪污欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
28507.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
28523.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
國營企業裡面的授權公務員你們只是用了第五款、第七款、第八款你們沒有用貪污欸你們不是說國營企業貪污很多要查很重要結果你條文不把它列進去都已經跟你講有這個問題了在這邊講那麼久也都沒有任何的用 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
28525.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
28548.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
剛剛也告訴你整個第五條的規定至少就有三處定錯了我們都還是不是用我們民進黨的版本喔我們是根據於國民黨你自己定出來的版本用以你的角度來出發如果你想要做這個做那個但是你卻漏了什麼我們一個一個列出來沒有人要聽欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
28549.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
28555.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
百分之二十的規定沒有辦法達到你們的目的剛剛也提過了也沒有要聽啊講完了之後就表決啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
28556.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
28582.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那這樣的討論有什麼意義這就是秉立委員講的嘛這就是完全是偷襲式立法嘛因為你前面提的條文你前面提的規定根本就沒有要給大家討論的意思啊然後呢在表決之前提出這些千瘡百孔的法律在適用上會出問題的法律擺在大家的桌上我們認真的看裡面到底有什麼問題告訴你以後呢也沒有人要上來回答也沒有人要來發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
28583.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
28605.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
上來發言的都講空話啊你們自己講完空話之後下去告訴選民說你們訂了一個很棒的法律其實根本就沒有辦法適用那請問這怎麼可以叫討論呢這樣的一個立法方式是我們立法院應該有的立法方式嗎現在這一條我已經沒有時間再講還有什麼問題了但如此千瘡百孔的法律你們就硬是要通過你們終究會自食惡果 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
28610.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
28622.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
謝謝沈委員下一位請黃國昌委員發言黃國昌委員不發言下一位抱怨會我們登記委員發言完畢現在現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第11條條文現有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
28716.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
28740.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
表決結果出席107人、贊成8人、反對48人、棄權51人報告院會本案表決結果可否兩方均未過半數依規定應重新表決重新表決時以多數為可決現在進行重新表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
28766.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
28773.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
邱委員自委聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
28816.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
28824.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成8人、反對49人、棄權51人、贊成者少數台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第11條條文不通過現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議第11條條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
28915.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
28919.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
29012.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
29022.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成60人、反對48人、贊成者多數本條照國民黨黨團再修正動議第11條條文通過現在進行審查會第11條請宣讀第11條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
29037.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
29061.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第十二條國民黨黨團再修正動議第十二條揭弊者依本法程序項第四條所列受理揭弊機關所陳述之內容涉及國家機密、營業秘密或其他依法因保密之事項者不負泄密之民事形式、行政及職業倫理之承諫責任即為揭弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
29062.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
29078.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
其為揭弊向律師徵詢法律意見而涉及前開依法因保密之事項者役同民進黨黨團在修正動議第11條揭弊者陳述整體容容涉及國家揭秘、營業秘密或其他依法因保密之事項者 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
29079.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
29100.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
僅於依本法程序項第4條第1項及第2項之受理揭弊機關委職者使不負泄密致民事刑事行政及職業管理居承屆責任揭弊者為依本法程序項第4條第1項及第2項之受理揭弊機關揭弊來向律師徵詢法律意見時 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
29101.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
29128.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
其詳述身內容涉及國家機密、營業秘密或其他依法應保密之事項者亦不負泄密之民事形式,其涉及職業倫理之呈現責任宣讀完畢莊委員瑞雄聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄現在請黃委員國昌發言黃委員不發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
29132.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
29147.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
報告委員會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第12條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第12條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間1分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
29229.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
29234.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
表決結果出席108人贊成59人反對49人贊成者多數現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
29256.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
29256.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
立法院議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
29321.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
29327.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
重複表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第12條條文通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第12條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
29342.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
29370.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正統一第13條國民黨黨團再修正統一第13條揭弊者系揭弊內容所涉犯罪之偵犯或公犯且符合《證人保護法》第3條及第14條第一項之要件者等依同法第14條第一項予以減輕或免除其刑不受該法第二條所列罪名之限制其向今法院判決免除其刑確定之揭弊者 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
29370.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
29392.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
再任公辭案件等不受公務人員任用法第28條第一項第4款之限制民進黨黨團再修正動議第12條揭弊者習揭弊內容所涉犯罪之正犯或共犯且符合《專人保護法》第3條及第14條第一項之要件者等一一同法第14條 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
29394.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
29422.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
第一項予以減輕或免除棄刑不受該法第二條所列罪名之限制前向經法院判決免除棄刑確定之揭弊者在任公職案件等不受公務人員任用法第28條第一項第四款之限制宣讀完畢現在請陳委員培餘發言委員不發言下一位請黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
29423.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
29441.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
黃國昌委員不發言我們登記發言者已發言完畢報告委員會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提在修正動議第13條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團在修正動議第13條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
29525.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
29530.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
表決結果出席108人贊成59人反對49人贊成者多數現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
29613.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
29617.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
總部表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動力第13條條文通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第13條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
29633.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
29651.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第14條《揭弊者符合真人保護法》第3條是要見者其本人或其密切關係人等依該法第12條及第13條規定是以人身安全之保護措施及安置措施不受該法第2條所列罪名之限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
29652.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
29666.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
意圖妨害或報復受本法保護之揭弊者揭發弊端、配合調查或擔任證人而向揭弊者或其密切關係人實施犯罪行為者依其所犯之罪加重其刑至二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
29669.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
29684.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
國民黨黨團再修戰鬥第14條揭弊者符合《證人保護法》第3條之要件者其本人或其密切關係人等依該法施以人身安全之保護措施不受該法第二條所列罪名之限制意圖妨害或報復 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
29686.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
29704.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
受本法保護之揭弊者揭發弊端﹐配合調查或擔任證人﹐吻向揭弊者或其密切關係人﹐實施犯罪行為者﹐依其所犯之罪﹐加重其刑至二分之一本法所稱揭弊者之密切關係人﹐指揭弊者之配偶之系血親﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
29706.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
29716.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
黨內旁系血親、二親黨內姻親或家長家屬與其定有會約者或其他身份上或生活上有密切利害關係之人 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
29717.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
29736.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
民進黨黨團在協助動議第13條揭弊者符合《證人保護法》第3條之要件者其本人或其配偶直系血親其他身份上或生活上有密切關係證人能依該法施以人身安全之保護措施不受該法第2條所列罪名之限制意圖妨害或報復 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
29737.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
29764.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
受本法保護之揭弊者皆發併案、配合調查或擔任證人而對揭弊者或其配偶直系寫清其他身份上或生活上有密切關係之人實施犯罪行為者依其所犯真罪加重其刑至二分之一宣讀完畢現在請黃國昌委員發言好,委員不發言我們下一位請李博義委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
29766.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
29777.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好 李委員不發言好 登記委員已發言完畢現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第14條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘 現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
29792.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
29793.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
主席韓瑞 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
29862.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
29883.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成8人、反對49人、棄權51人報告院會本案表決結果可否兩方均未過半數依規定應重新表決重新表決時以多數為可決現在進行重新表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
29958.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
29970.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
重新表決結果出席107人、贊成8人、反對49人、棄權50人、贊成者少數台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第14條條文不通過現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議第14條條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間1分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
30058.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
30062.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
30147.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
30151.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
總部表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照國民黨黨團再修正動議第14條條文通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第14條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
30168.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
30183.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第15條 受理揭弊者機關及其懲判調查、稽查人員、執法人員或其他依法執行該相當職務、業務之人對於揭弊者身份應予保密 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
30184.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
30210.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
非經揭弊者本人同意不等無故泄露與被揭弊對象或他人公務員無故泄露揭弊者之身份者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣30萬元以下罰金因故事犯欠上致罪者處1年以下有期徒刑軍役或跟我併科新台幣10萬元以下罰金非公務員無故泄露揭弊者之身份者處1年以下有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
30211.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
30238.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
均亦獲分或併科新台幣10萬元以下罰金民進黨黨團在修正動議第14條受理揭弊機關及其存本調查、稽查人員或其他依法執行相當職務業務之人對於揭弊者之身份應予保密非經揭弊者本人同意不得無故洩漏與被揭弊者或他人揭弊者之身份資料除法律令有規定或已無身份保密必要者 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
30239.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
30263.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
外、揭弊者得請求以代號製作筆錄或文書遵應其姓名、性別、出生年月日、住居所身份證明文件編號或其他等以直接或間接方式識別其身份之資料其簽名由保密之必要者以暗指引或簽寫代號代之並製作代號及遵實姓名對照表以密封套、密封附卷 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
30265.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
30293.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
前項明錄或文書除法律令有規定外不得公閱或提供偵查審判機關以外之其他機關構法人或團體個人揭弊者於偵查或審理中為尋訊問時得依其請求蒙面變身、變相視訊傳送或其他適當隔離方式為之與其依法接受對質或結問時一同前三項自保密措施揭弊者得放棄之宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
30296.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
30319.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
好,現在請王委員逸川發言好,這一條啊,大家不用緊張齁,我再補充一下不然我講到什麼木殼 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
30322.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
30328.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
什麼狀況、什麼這種的,整個背景都丟起來,你們才冷靜我們在說的是整體的,總嘉賓委員記的那些很好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
30333.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
30355.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
你幕殼的說要去查台積電,結果沒辦法處理,跑去公益的單位叫做縱望基金會啊你的幕殼叫縱望的港公司,港一個樓層隔壁斷了而已,這樣會不會通所以這個在設計上,好像你那天宗嘉賓委員說的舉那個例子非常的貼切,我不要說太多,講完講完你就再背給他講起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
30359.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
30368.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
可我們走現在就回去了這讓他認清大家對這個揭弊者民進黨的都全力以赴要保護這個揭弊者所以你不堪再敢賣主意還有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
30370.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
30390.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
人們的主要負他就要宣戰正義整個都說出來這事情真的水落石出主要負若不說這事情不會水落石出所以大家認真要保護上這個主要負阿煌國昌你不可以再賣主要負主要負去中國被打已經很可憐了而且都中小平說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
30391.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
30413.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
你引述鍾小平說的,怎麼想你都在說的?你也一聽鍾小平說的所以主要有保護好,不然人家再賣了,這樣大家更好地對揭弊者完成保護好,以上好,謝謝王委員下一位請黃國昌委員發言好,黃委員不發言,我們登記發言者發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
30415.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
30428.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
報告委員會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第15條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第15條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
30512.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
30515.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
表決結果出席107人、贊成58人、反對49人、贊成者多數現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
30540.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
30544.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
沙漠民眾黨黨長沙漠民眾黨黨長沙漠民眾黨黨長 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
30599.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
30605.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團在修正動議第15條條文通過現在請宣讀委員吳宗憲第15條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
30619.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
30637.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第16條國民黨黨團再修正動議第16條揭弊者之個人資料除法律另有規定或已無身份保密之必要者外揭弊者得請求以代號製作筆錄或文書徵印其姓名、性別、出生年月日 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
30638.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
30667.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
出居所身份證明文件編號或其他得以直接或間接方式識別該個人之資料其簽名由保密之必要者以暗指引或清寫代號代之並製作代號及真實姓名對照表以密封套、密封附卷前項筆錄或文書除法律令有規定外不得供閱覽或提供偵查審判機關以外之其他機關構法人或團體個人揭秘者於偵查或審理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
30670.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
30694.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
為尋訊問時得依其要求蒙面、變身、變相、私訊傳送或其他適當隔離方式為之與其依法接受對質或結問時,亦同前三項之保密措施,揭弊者得放棄之宣讀完畢好,我們請黃委員郭昌發言好,黃委員不發言下一位請蔡易瑜委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
30710.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
30723.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
主席那我們在討論今天的這個揭弊者保護法的第15條第15條是屬於對於揭弊者的身份保護那身份保護呢事實上這個我們也是支持對揭弊者 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
30725.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
30748.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
你去對他的身份去適度的不要讓他被揭露是對他是一個很好的一個保護方式但是我還是要強調因為今天在討論整個整部揭弊者保護法我們講到的朱雅虎那也許很多人都會去問號說那朱雅虎他是共犯啊因為他應該是受了他們審慶金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
30751.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
30772.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
要求然後去做行賄的動作所以它是共犯那它是屬於揭弊者保護法保護的一個範圍嗎我跟大家來說明一下請大家看再修正動議第13條揭弊者系揭弊內容所涉犯罪之正犯或共犯符合《證人保護法》第3條及第14條之一的要件者 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
30773.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
30801.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那他也是揭弊者保護法所應該要保障的範圍所以縱使朱雅虎是共犯他一樣是屬於應該要被保護的一個範圍那既然咧朱雅虎屬於揭弊者保護法應該要保障的一個範圍那他未來會有什麼權利呢對於他身為揭弊者然後你去對他說不實的指控造成他的名譽受損的話他可以依照第8條來行使他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
30802.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
30803.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
權力的一個救濟第8條告訴我們勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
30806.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
30829.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
18條告訴我們他可以做回復名譽的損害賠償的一個請求所以他可以去做這樣的請求然後還有所謂的第12條就是說如果你這一個對於揭弊者有不利行為的人你是公務員你就應該受到公務員懲戒法你不是公務員了一、第12條揭弊者懲戒委員會可以給你處罰20萬元以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
30832.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
30857.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
2億元以下的法案所以我們看到的這裡就很清楚了為什麼黃國昌要在昨天開記者會然後再攻擊朱雅虎細思極恐啊因為昨天揭弊者保護法還沒有完成刪讀所以沒有受到整部法律的保障所以他這樣的攻擊揭弊者他就是沒有法律責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
30858.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
30886.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那事實上我們看到一手推揭弊者保護法一手攻擊屬於揭弊者保護法所應該要保護的豬牙虎這樣的一個雙標這樣的一個兩面手法細思極恐所以我們民眾黨我們支持揭弊者保護法但是我們在揭弊者保護法通過權看到有人這樣的攻擊揭弊者我們也看不下去大家說對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
30889.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
30904.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好 謝謝蔡委員報告院會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第16條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第16條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間1分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
30988.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
30998.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第16條條文通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
31004.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
31024.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
報告院會現有台灣民眾黨黨團針對本次會議12月27日提出延長開會時間至討論事項第一案公益揭弊者保護法草案等案處理完畢再行休息請問院會有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
31026.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
31046.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
不依通過做以下宣告本次會議延長開會時間至討論事項、遞案、公益揭弊者保護法草案等案處理完畢再行休息現在先休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
31053.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
31075.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
剛剛有委員提案要休息我們休息讓議事人員上個洗手間好不好好不好因為議事人員都已經三個小時沒有上洗手間十分鐘我們休息十分鐘十分鐘讓議事人員休息洗手間 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
31692.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
31707.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
報告院會現在繼續開會進行楊瓊瓔委員提案第8條條文報告院會楊瓊瓔委員撤回所提第8條、第12條、第17條條文沒有意見的話楊瓊瓔委員第8條、第12條、第17條條文予以撤回 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
31718.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
31747.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
現在進行林月琴委員提案第13條條文報告院會林月琴委員撤回所提第13條條文沒有意見的話林月琴委員第13條條文予以撤回現在進行林月琴委員提案第14條條文報告院會林月琴委員撤回所提第14條條文沒有意見的話林月琴委員第14條條文予以撤回 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
31751.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
31773.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
請宣讀委員吳宗憲第16條等提案台灣民眾黨黨團再修戰動議第17條國民黨黨團再修戰動議第17條揭弊者之揭弊內容有下列情形之一者人等依本法受有保護所揭露之內容無法證實但明顯虛偽不實或揭弊行為經受誣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
31775.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
31788.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
為證罪還起訴或判決有罪確定者不在此限二、所揭露之內容易經他人檢舉或受理揭弊機關以窒息但案件以公安或揭弊者明知已有他人檢舉不在此限 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
31790.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
31805.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
民進黨黨團再修正動議第15條揭弊者是揭弊內容有下列起刑之一者仍得依本法受保護一、所揭露之內容無法證實但明顯虛偽不實或揭弊行為經已誣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
31805.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
31832.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
未證罪緩起訴或判決有罪者不在此限二、所揭露之內容涉及他人檢舉或受理揭弊機關已知悉但案件已公開或揭弊者知悉已有他人檢舉者不在此限受理揭弊機關就嫌向各款單數之揭弊案件得不予處理宣讀完畢現在請中委員嘉賓發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
31835.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
31835.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
時間3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
31849.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
31866.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
主席、在黨的委員先進知道大家歸心事件但是為了揭弊者未來運作的順暢以及目前已經知道的各種治案難行之處預先宣告所以還是要跟大家說明各版本的差異目前吳宗彥召委所提的再修正動議內容其實很單純 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
31867.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
31882.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
但是呢在這裡不斷的還是要提出為什麼要藉此機會來說明民進黨的再修正動議的第16條雖然條子相同但是規範的對象不一樣其實民進黨的第16條很重要的就是避免惡意揭弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
31882.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
31901.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
其實大家都對於公益揭弊非常的支持但是如何去推動要審慎要去思考周延像剛剛之前我提了一些比較是淺顯易懂大家理解的方式就可以說明為什麼我們的弊案以限定公部門為疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
31902.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
31928.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
受理揭弊的機關還是以這些具有公權力的調查機關為主為什麼我們不應該在第7條授予其他第二層揭弊機關去調查弊案的這些權利這些都是因為來自於揭弊固然是一個公益的行為但是也容易被惡意者濫用那因此惡意揭弊會造成如果說是在公部門當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
31929.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
31943.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
之前舉了一個小例子如果對於弊案的範圍無所不包廢清法、水壺法、空屋法早上我舉了一個很荒唐的例子雖然是在公佈部門兩個同事住隔壁互相檢舉來揭弊去 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
31945.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
31960.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
該公務機關要不要受理啊所以都會知道惡意揭弊在我們的生活當中過去台灣社會出現的檢舉達人已經造成民間非常大的反彈因此民進黨才會主張公部門先行 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
31961.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
31979.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
而且我們也謹慎的不馬上有第二層也就是說除了公權力機關之外如果公權力機關不處理還要設置一個包括媒體公司包括一些公益法人具有受理揭弊的這樣的一個範圍我們認為第二層的揭弊應先於保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
31980.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
31998.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
今晚如此早上說了一個民眾黨假設黨營事業木可公司可以作為揭發弊案的揭弊者他去跟作為公益財團法人的第二層的重信基金會去進行揭弊那麼這一個基金會居然可以去調查像台積電、資本盒一樣的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
31999.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
32020.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
這當然荒謬啊但是對於惡意揭弊的嚴格的禁止、去預防是我們在揭弊者當中非常重要的一個設計因此民主進步黨我們在委員會討論的時候有提到這些諸多的要求主張由於國民黨、民眾黨他們提出來的栽選中意缺乏對這方面明確的定義因此呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
32020.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
32031.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我們除了前面所做的主張我們希望在民進黨版的再修正動議當中去嚴格限制的惡意揭弊應有的處罰以讓立法完善謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
32042.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
32061.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
登記發言者已發言完畢報告院會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第17條條文相同所以一併處理請問院會是否還要再按鈴7分鐘如果不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
32063.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
32069.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
不用現在進行表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第17條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
32151.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
32162.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第17條條文通過請宣讀民進黨黨團再修正動議第16條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
32170.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
32198.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
民進黨黨團再修正動議第16條基於惡意或濫用揭弊程序之目的且其揭弊內容欠缺而合理依據者、受理揭弊機關得儲揭弊者信貸幣12萬元以下之罰款揭弊者有簽條第一項第一款但書之起刑者異同宣讀完畢現在請黃國昌委員發言黃委員不發言下一位請鍾嘉斌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員不發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
32201.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
32209.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
抱怨會現在表決民進黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決11分鐘現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
32284.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
32287.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成49人、反對59人、贊成者少數民進黨黨團再修正動議條文不通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第17條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
32300.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
32319.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修站動議第18條國民黨黨團再修站動議第18條應揭弊者之揭弊而常務不法事實者應給予獎金但應行使公權力而得之不法事實之政府機關構及其所屬人員、配偶或三親等一類之親屬不在此限 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
32320.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
32344.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
揭弊者任職之政府機關公、法人團體或雇主對於揭弊者依法令所得領取之檢舉獎金不得主張扣抵第一項獎金發給之標準及其他相關事項由主管機關會同各目的事業主管機關定之但其數額不得低於違反法令者因揭弊所受罰還、罰金、沒收之財物或財產上利益、追徵價額、財產底層之總額10% |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
32349.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
32378.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
民進黨黨團再修任動議第17條依相關法令得就揭弊行為給予獎金者其獎金給予基準及相關事項之規定由各目的事業主管機關定之任職之政府機關構法人團體或部署對於揭弊者依法令內部規章或決定所得領取之檢舉獎金不得主張扣抵揭弊者其他依本法的請求之金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
32378.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
32379.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
宣讀完畢現在請莊瑞雄委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
32397.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
32420.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
謝謝主席我們在場的同仁條文審到第18條我看剩下三個條文大家有沒有一個感覺各個政黨的好朋友在這個地方越審是越害怕我們在立法院在審任何的一個法案其實只要沒有院版大家都走得小心翼翼我現在來看看國民黨的修正的一個動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
32423.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
32447.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
呃...不曉得國民黨的朋友可不可以仔細的看一看聽一聽啦看我講的有沒有道理啦 阿不然要跟你賣啦你說你這個各黨團的版本裡面喔獎金制度的一個發放啊我看就國民黨裡面這個版本最沒有道理台灣民眾黨你也去講說那個公務員三等輕的不得去領取可是我就沒有看到你們的說法理由阿為什麼他不能領取 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
32449.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
32468.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那如果說今天揭弊的人揭弊者就是一個公務人員然後他的知道他知道有這樣的一個弊案那身為公務人員的家屬三等親的他願意出來揭弊我倒反而覺得更應該發給他獎金這第一點第二個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
32471.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
32494.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
這個民眾黨的版本裏面採取的是獎金共享制度裏面明定的主管機關應給的是不得低於罰款或罰金或利益的10%這整個條文是引用行政違規才處罰的一個案件也就是說例如你違反部分的交通規則那這個部分有一個很大的前提就是你一個機關你會收到這些罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
32496.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
32515.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
有財產的一個收入但是揭弊不一定每一件都是屬於行政財閥還的一個案件更何況很多揭弊的案件裡面恐怕很多都是刑事不法那這些刑事不法有一些是屬於受害人的財產那受害人的財產本來我們應該去花還 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
32519.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
32537.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
你應該發還給受害人那怎麼說你到最後變成我們主管機關你必須把這一筆錢屬於要發還給受害人的你給他10%來當獎金這個我就百思不得其解所以審到最後這三條越信越怕沒有人來幫我們解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
32544.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
32572.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
在那裡分析一下 你說你騎得手比較多騎得就通過這個好好考慮一下啦真的好好考慮一下啦因為在整個揭弊裡面那些財產的一個收入啊未必啊那不是在交通不是在交通警察在開罰單開下去罰單一直累積一直累積一直累積不是啦有一些你被揭弊以後如果說這些屬於受害者那這些財產的 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
32574.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
32581.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
反而到最後是要發還,那怎麼是把他拿來撕趴?想不到啦,也沒有人有辦法回答我啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
32592.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
32608.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
我們登記發言委員發言完畢報告宴會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第18條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第18條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
32689.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
32712.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第18條條文通過現在進行林月琴委員提案第24條條文報告宴會林月琴委員撤回所提第24條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
32715.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
32718.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
若沒有意見的話,林月琴委員第24條條文予以撤回請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案第18條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
32742.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
32759.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第19條國民黨黨團再修正動議第19條為保障揭弊者之權益揭弊者保護委員會辦理下列業務一、協助揭弊者依本法主張除去不利措施及請求損害賠償等權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
32760.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
32777.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
二、提供揭弊者必要的法律諮詢與法律輔助三、協助揭弊者或其密切關係人依本法請求人身安全之保護措施及安置措施四、提供揭弊者緊急之生理、心理醫療與生活重建之協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
32778.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
32805.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
五、揭弊者保護之宣導、倡議及研究六、其他符合揭弊者保護之事項主管機關應調派專任人員或聘用專業人員成主任委員之命協助辦理揭弊者保護委員會之業務民進黨黨團再修正動議不予訂定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
32808.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
32815.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
現在請黃委員國昌發言黃國昌委員不發言下一位請莊瑞雄委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
32833.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
32862.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
謝謝主席還有在場我們各政黨的委員大家晚安其實18條跟19條應該合併來看應該合併來看中國國民黨是會同司法院考試院是六個月施行那民眾黨跟國民黨一樣在修正動議它是到一年民進黨是會商司法院考試院跟監察院那行政院來定這個施行的一個日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
32864.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
32879.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
這次的一個立法品質我是覺得非常差啦非常差啦非常差的原因是大家沒有經過比較詳細的一個討論也沒有行政部門或者說司法院來為這一部法律來提供在 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
32882.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
32906.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
審理的時候這個過程裡面提供一些專業的法律的意見你像比如說現在如果說按照中國國民黨的版本來去通過的話國民黨跟民眾黨雖然都一樣但是你說會同跟會商國民黨跟民眾黨是用會同那你如果是會同的話是各個機關全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
32906.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
32924.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
都要一起同意然後共同來承擔民進黨的版本是會商也就是說我身為一個主管機關我去碰到問題我受揭弊了那我必須要去問問看我是主管機關看看相關的機關你的意見是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
32925.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
32943.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
到最後來決定還是我自己主管機關那這是一個會商大家再去回想一下2018年當初我們在審空污法的時候這個問題早就已經吵過一次了那結果呢到現在你就把它用一個會同我看這個問題啊真的沒有這麼簡單啊你當你會同一個法規命令規範的時候牽扯到數個 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
32952.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
32975.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
有權者的一個機關的時候你最後決定機關如果假設是我的話那就很簡單啊那這個是我那就是一個匯商啊難道投我國民黨你們提出這個版本的意思是我身為被揭弊的這樣的一個目的世界主感機關我到最後要訂一些法規命令的時候我還要經過其他相關機關大家共同決定才可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
32978.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
32988.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
真的好好再想一想另外啊你去把它看喔那我們這一次一直在中國國民黨是在講說你們說司法院、考試院民進黨的版本加了一個監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
32992.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
33017.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那今天受理機關也有一個監察院那你要會同啊你偏偏把它漏掉一個監察院也許你們對監察院非常討厭但是呢要制定這個法規命令你去把它獨漏這樣的一個監察院再怎麼看你這才要講個理由啊沒有道理啊因為你前面的受理機關你就有監察院那你在訂法規命令的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
33037.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
33052.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
好,謝謝莊委員報告院會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提在修正動議第19條條文相同,所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團在修正動議第19條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始,時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
33135.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
33162.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第19條條文通過現在進行徐巧欣委員提案第18條條文報告委員會徐巧欣委員撤回所提第18條條文沒有意見的話徐巧欣委員第18條條文予以撤回 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
33164.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
33189.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
請宣讀委員吳宗憲第18條等提案台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第20條國民黨黨團再修正動議第20條本法實行細則由行政院會同司法院考試院定之民進黨黨團再修正動議第18條本法實行細則由行政院會商、司法院、考試院及監察院定之宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
33190.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
33201.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
現在請黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不發言下一位請莊瑞雄委員莊瑞雄委員不發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
33204.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
33217.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
報告委員會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提再修正動議第20條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團再修正動議第20條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
33298.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
33303.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團再修正動議第20條條文通過請宣讀委員吳宗憲第19條等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
33318.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
33334.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議第21條國民黨黨團再修正動議第21條本法自公布後6個月施行民進黨黨團再修正動議第19條本法實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
33359.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
33386.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
主席 在場的委員先進這是對於本法案民進黨團版本的最後一次發言為什麼要講民進黨團版本呢其實在我們接下來的條文當中啊國民黨的第18條、第19條我一併做個介紹18條說本法施行細則由行政院會同司法院及考試院定定之好啦行政院、司法院、考試院那有沒有發現少了哪一個院啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
33387.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
33404.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
少了監察院為什麼你們在第5條的時候受理第4條受理揭弊機關明明白白把監察院寫到了受理機關可是呢到了第18條的施行細則你們就把監察院給放生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
33405.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
33433.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
好那如果大家真的這麼不喜歡監察院那何必把當初的受理機關監察院放進去今天我知道各黨過去對於中華民國憲法的五權分立、三權分立多有爭議過去在第10屆的時候我們也試圖透過修憲委員的方式要來呼籲國民黨加入政黨共同修憲回復到三權分立的機關結果今年國民黨呢特別拿這段歷史來杯葛監察院的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
33434.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
33451.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
很好玩耶你們說要恢復三權不支持我們的修憲你們說監察院的預算要刪掉但是呢揭弊者保護法又把監察院放在受理機關最後我們來看第19條第19條更有意思了施行日期啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
33452.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
33475.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
本法事件日期由行政院定之還是公布一年後定之這是誰的版本?國民黨的朋友你們一開始的動議是由行政院定之民眾黨的版本都是公告一年後實施欸?為什麼兩黨不同調?沒有國民黨的再修正動議就向民眾黨看齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
33476.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
33497.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
為什麼國民黨一開始要寫由行政院定制因為很清楚嘛揭弊者當中相當多的配套需要行政院充分的跟司法院跟考試院甚至跟監察院好好的討論如果不給行政院這個時間由他來定制那麼這個揭弊者保護法上路之後就會出車禍 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
33498.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
33523.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
但是我們知道我們國民黨跟民眾黨過去一向對於施行日期現在學乖了通通要怎樣公告後施行上週通過的憲法訴訟法本來是由司法院一開始是3年後實施後來的版本所有的憲法訴訟法的修改都由司法院定定實施日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
33524.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
33547.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
本來嘛 憲法訴訟法就是司法院大法官憲法法庭專用結果呢 上週的法就通通訂成要公佈後立即施行那為什麼這個法這麼重要黃國昌這麼重視揭弊者保護法為什麼不要施行後公佈 就馬上實施唉 因為木可案、金華城案還在調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
33548.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
33557.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
怎麼可以馬上公布後實施呢?一年後再實施這就是國民黨民眾黨你們自己擬了揭弊者保護法,又不願意面對揭弊者保護法的後果!謝謝,鍾委員下一位請黃國昌委員發言黃委員不發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
33575.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
33588.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
報告委員會因為台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團分別所提在修正動議第21條條文相同所以一併處理現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團在修正動議第21條條文現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決現在開始時間一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
33671.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
33677.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
表決結果出席108人、贊成59人、反對49人、贊成者多數本條照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團在修正動議第21條條文通過全案經過二讀現有台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
33701.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
33730.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
宣讀經過二讀之條文公益揭弊者保護法第一條為維護公共利益有效發現、防止、追究重大不法行為並保障公務們國營事業及受政府控制之事業團體或機構揭弊者之權益特制定本法揭弊者之揭弊程序及保護依本法之規定但其他法律之規定更有利於揭弊者之保護者從其規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
33732.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
33753.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
本法鑒主管機關為法務部法務部為辦理本法鑒定之揭弊者保護事項應組成揭弊者保護委員會本法鑒定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各該目的事業主管機關辦理目的事業主管機關有爭議者由揭弊者保護委員會確定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
33754.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
33782.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
揭弊者保護委員會智委員7人以法務部部長為主任委員並為當然委員其餘委員由主管機關就具下列資格者聆聘之任期3年一、承認法官、檢察官、律師及其他依法具有專門職業及技術職業資格人員5年以上者二、承認獲信任教育部認可之大專院校教授5年以上生育卓著者 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
33783.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
33799.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
三、對揭弊者保護人權保障有專門研究或貢獻、彙據相關公民團體實務經驗、生育著住者、揭弊者保護委員會之組織規程、聆聘方式、處理程序及其他應遵行事項之辦法由主管機構定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
33801.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
33817.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
第3條本法所稱閉案是指公務員或政府機關構、輸政府控制之事業團體或機構之人員順有下列犯罪或違法行為或涉及公共利益且情節重大者一、犯刑法獨自最終之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
33818.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
33839.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
二、違反《貪污治罪條例》之行為三、包庇他人犯罪之行為等以法律有明文規定刑事處罰者違憲四、違反公職人員利益衝突迴避法的處以罰款之行為五、違反《政府財務法》之行為六、法官法第30條第二項第7款或第89條第4項第7款之應付評鑑行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
33843.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
33866.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
7、違反下列根目是有危害公共利益且緊急而重大之行為1、犯刑法公共危險最終上期被刑及重力罪第231條之一、第296條、第296條之一之行為2、違反洗錢防治法、組織犯罪防治條例、長袍彈藥刀械管制條例、懲治走私條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
33866.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
33882.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
獨秉危害防治條例、人口分域防治法、兒童及少年性不屑防治條例之行為。三、犯刑法防害投票罪證或違反公職員選舉報免法、總統、副總統選舉報免法、公民投票法、反申諾法之行為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
33884.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
33911.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
4、違反《營業秘密法》之行為5、違反《銀行法》、《保險法》、《證券交易法》、《期貨交易法》、《信託業法》、《金融控股公司法》、《票券金融管理法》、《證券投資信託集股委法》、《公平交易法》或其他有關經濟財政法規之行為6、違反《水土保持法》、《生物保育利用條例》、《空氣污染防治法》、《水污染防治法》、《海洋污染防治法》、《廢棄物性理法》 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
33912.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
33937.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
毒性及關注化學物質管理法、土壤及地下水污染整治法、環境擁有管理法之罪或其他有關環境保護法規之行為及違反藥事法、醫療器材管理法、市民安全衛生管理法、傳染病防治法或其他有關衛生福利法規之行為違反勞動計準法、勞動檢查法、職業安全衛生法、就業服務法或其他有關勞動法規之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
33940.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
33959.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
9、違反性騷擾防治法、性別平等工作法、性別平等教育法之行為10、違反身心障礙者權益保障法、老人福利法、兒童及少年福利與權益保障法之行為8、其他涉及重大公共利益之犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
33959.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
33978.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
除以返還或應付懲戒之行為請向第8款閉案範圍由主管機關會商相關機關定制並定期檢討、調整或增淺第4條本法所稱受理揭弊機關如下一、公佈滿車政府機關構主管、首長或其指定單位人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
33980.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
33988.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
本國營事業受政府控制之事業團體或機構之主管負責人或其決定單位人員3. |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
33988.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
33989.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
檢查機關4. |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
33989.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
33991.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
司法檢查機關5. |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
33991.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
33992.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
目的事業主管機關6. |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
33992.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
33992.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
監察院7. |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
33992.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
33992.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
政風機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
33995.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
34020.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
揭弊內容涉及國家機密保護法是國家機密者應向下列機關揭弊實受本法保護一、涉及機密等級事項應向前項第一款、第三款或第六款之受理揭弊機關為之二、涉及絕對機密及極機密等級事項應向最高警察署或高等警察署及其檢查分屬為之受理揭弊機關對揭弊內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
34021.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
34040.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
因依相關法令予以保密之處理揭弊機關經判定揭弊內容非其主管事項時應將案件移送各權責機關並通知揭弊者揭弊案件經移送各權責機關者仍依本法規定保護之 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
34041.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
34069.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
第5條本法所申揭弊者如下一、公部門揭弊者、指公務員或接受政府機關構雇用、定做委任派遣承賴、特約或其他契約關係來提供勞務或是報酬至相對人及其員工有事實合理相信政府機關構或其員工其他公務員順由第三條所列之弊案據名項檢調第一項受理揭弊機關提出檢舉者二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
34070.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
34085.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
國營事業受政府控制之事業、團體或機構揭弊者只接受國營事業受政府控制之事業、團體或機構之派任、僱用、定作、委任派遣、傳染、特約或其他契約關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
34087.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
34105.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
提供勞務或是報酬之相對人及其員工有事實合理、相信、任職或提供勞務對象之事業、團體或機構或其員工順有第3條、第5款、第7款或第8款支批案具名項前條第一項之受理揭弊機關提出擬具者 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
34106.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
34130.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
前項第一款所稱公務員蓄止政務官及各級民意代表以外依法令從事於公務之人員本法所稱政府機關構蓄止中央與各級地方政府機關行政法人、公立學校、公立醫療院所公營事業政府捐助之財團法人本法所稱國營事業蓄止《國營事業管理法》第三條所規定之事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
34131.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
34152.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
本法所深受政府控制之事業、團體或機構,細指全序部公告之政府,即其所屬營業基金、非營業基金轉投資金額,累計正該事業資本額20%以上之轉投資或再轉投資事業,受政府直接或間接控制其人事、財務或業務之轉投資或再轉投資事業、團體或機構。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
34155.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
34174.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
前項事業團體或機構之揭弊竟與弊案原因發生時屬於公告所列之事業團體或機構第6條揭秘者向受理揭秘機關揭秘後未於20日內或受理調查之通知經促請辦理後於10日內仍未獲回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
34175.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
34194.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
南藏居民向消理人員或法人揭弊自己向原受理揭弊機關揭弊實際依本法規定保護之一、中央或地方民意代表二、具公司登記之媒體業者三、具法人登記之公益團體、揭弊者向受理揭弊機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
34195.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
34218.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
揭弊後6個月內未獲調查結果時通知,經訴請辦理後於10日內仍未獲回應,得再具名向前項人員或法人揭弊自其向原受理揭弊機關揭弊時期,受本法是保護揭弊者未依第4條規定揭弊,而先向第一項人員或法人揭弊第一項人員或法人受理後 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
34218.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
34245.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
因於10日內轉由受理揭弊機關辦理經調查後發現揭弊屬實者自其向第一項人員或法人揭弊時期受本法之保護揭弊者經原受理揭弊機關受理調查為場無實據之結案通知後再向其項人員或法人揭弊者以該案令經起訴、還起訴、職權不起訴、申請檢疫判決處刑、裁定准與自訴、懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
34248.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
34268.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
懲處、懲罰、彈劾、糾正、糾舉或行政法緩整違憲依本法規定保護之第7條 受理揭弊機關對揭弊事由應為調查並得要求揭弊者涉嫌事業單位或機關構等關係人提供相關事證配合調查涉案關係人非有正當理由不得拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
34269.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
34296.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
受理揭弊機關基於證據保全與法院判決前等向法院申請後押轉用《刑事訴訟法》第133條之規定第8條政府機關共法人或團體個人不得因揭弊者有項鍊行為而對其採行不利之措施一、揭發第三條所列弊案二、配合弊案之調查或擔任證人三、拒絕參與弊案之決定或實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
34297.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
34311.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
因前三款之作為而遭受不利措施後依法提起就計前項所申不利措施指下列舉行之一解職、撤職、免職、停職、解約、降調或被不利之考及懲處、懲罰及評定 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
34314.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
34332.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
二、減薪奉、罰款薪、剝奪或減少獎金、退休、植物金三、與身間有關之證或訓練機會、福利跳出權利之剝奪四、工作地點、職務內容或其他工作條件、管理措施之不利變更五、分依法律規定揭露揭弊者之身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
34333.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
34361.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
因第一項各款行為而受不利措施者等為下列請求一、回復其受不利措施前之職位及職務其原職位已補缺或經裁撤者回復至相當之職位及職務二、回復其擁有年資、特殊權利、獎金、退休職務及福利、工作條件及管理措施三、受不利措施期間興奉及或工資之補發及採取上損害之賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
34362.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
34381.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
自授有身體健康、名譽、自由、信用、隱私或其他人格、法義之侵害者須非裁選上之損害亦得請求賠償相當之金額其名譽被侵害者並得請求為回復名譽之適當處分前項第3款鎖定裁選上的損害之賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
34382.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
34409.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
包括奉薪及或工資以外其他期待利益之合理、估算金額及遭受不利措施後依法提起就計所合理支出之費用及律師籌金第二項鎖定不利措施之爭議應先由受不利措施之人證明下令請示一、有第一項各款制行為二、有遭受第二項制不利措施三、第一款行為之發生時間在第二款不利措施之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
34410.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
34437.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
數不利措施之人為前項證明後推定為有違反本條第一項規定但任職之政府及官構、法人團體或其主管、雇主證明縱無該等行為其餘當時仍有爭當理由彩銷同志人事措施者不在此限定有禁止揭弊者為第一項各款行為之約定或限制揭弊者依第三項、第四項為祈求徵權利者其約定無效 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
34439.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
34453.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
第9條具公務員身份捐贈應受第8條第2項第一款至第4款不力措施者應依其原有身份關係需用至法律程序提起刑券救濟所申同條第3項第3款及第4款之賠償請求權 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
34454.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
34475.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
自政府機關構依第二項主張作成回復原狀、詢證作跡為由理由之決定確定之日起因第八條第二項第五款不力措施所生之賠償請求權自遵新事實發生之日起六個月間不行使而消滅自損害發生時期與二年者一同 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
34476.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
34493.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
公務員於申訴、再申訴、附審、訴願、憑借、懲戒、行政訴訟或其他人士行政行為究竟程序中主張其有第8條第一項各款行為者而遭移送或受有不利措施者應先與其他事證而為調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
34494.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
34520.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
並依調查結果而為成立或不成立據認定據公務員身份之受不利措施者主張其應有第八條第一項各款之行為而遭移送懲戒經懲戒法院審理後認定其依前項之主張成立並為不受懲戒之判決確定者亦得請求第八條第三項第三款及第四款之賠償並準用第一項十項之規定第一項及前項 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
34521.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
34545.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
及前項請求權之行使不妨礙依《民法》、《國家賠償法》或其他法律所得行使之權利第10條未具公務員身份之受不利措施者因僱主違反第8條第一項規定者得自知悉其情形之日期30日內不經預告忠實勞動契約前項人員得請求僱主及副期適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
34546.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
34574.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
勞動基準法勞工退休金條例或其他法規所規定之資遣費、退休金其相當於6個月工資補償金其請求權自勞動契約終止時期6個月間不行使而消滅外需公務員身份而受不利措施者所申第8條第三項之請求權自知其事時發生之日起6個月間不行使而消滅自損害發生時期與二年者一同 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
34575.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
34592.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
於《刑事前二項祈求權之救濟程序》中為具公務員身份之受不利措施者主張其有第八條第一項各款行為者應先與其他事證而為調查並依調查結果而為成立或不成立之認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
34593.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
34605.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
第二項及第三項請求全職行使是用第8條第5項第6項之規定且不妨礙依民法或其他法律所得行使之權利依第8條第3項第一款附之 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
34607.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
34630.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
顯有事實上之困難時,雇主的及附受不利措施者,使用《勞動期準法勞工退休金條例》或其他法規所規定職資遣費退休金即相當於12個月工資補償金,合一終止勞動契約。第二項即前項制補償金,依受不利措施者為第8條第3個款型而知前1月工資計算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
34631.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
34648.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
未具公務員身份之受不利措施者為政府機關構、法人或團體編制內之令奉行及而定有委任契約者得准用第二項、第四項至前項規定請求補償金但契約制約定有利於該受不利措施者從其約定 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
34650.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
34663.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
第11條違反第8條第一項規定者依下列即行予以處罰一、有公務員身份者按其情節輕重公務員懲戒法、公務員考記法或其相關法規予以懲戒或懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
34665.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
34679.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
二、未具公務員身份之自然人、婚姻事業、受政府控制之事業、團體或機構由各目的事業主管機關處新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元相發款但其他法律有較重之處罰規定者從其規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
34681.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
34710.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
前項第二款情形各目的事業主管機關得現其命期改善即其不改善者按次處罰之第12條揭秘者依本法程序向第4條所列受理揭秘機關所陳述之內容涉及國家揭秘營業秘密或其他依法應保密之事項者不負泄秘之民事形式行政及職業倫理之承接責任其未揭秘向律師徵詢法律意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
34711.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
34735.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
而涉及前干依法應保密之事項則一同第13條揭弊者即揭弊內容所涉犯罪之證犯或公犯且符合《證人保護法》第3條及第14條第一項之要件者得依同法第14條第一項予以減刑或免除期刑不受干法第二條所列罪名之限制前向經法院判決免除期刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
34736.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
34756.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
確定之揭弊者在任公職案件等不受公務人員任用法第28條第1項第4款之限制第14條揭弊者符合證人保護法第3條之要件者其本人或其密切關係人等依該法施以人身安全之保護措施不受該法第2條所列罪名之限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
34757.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
34773.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
意圖防範或報復受本法保護之揭弊者皆方弊端配合調查或擔任證人而向揭弊者或其密切關係人實施犯罪行為者依其所犯之罪加重其刑至二分之一本法所稱揭弊者之密切關係人 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
34774.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
34800.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
指揭弊者是配偶、直系血親、三親等內旁系血親、二親等內姻親或家長家屬與其定有婚約者或其他身份上或生活上有密切利害關係之人第15條 處理揭弊者機關及其存辦調查及查人員、執法人員或其他依法執行該相當職務、業務之人對於揭弊者身份應與保密 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
34801.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
34830.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
非經揭弊者本人同意不等無故泄露與被揭弊對象或他人公務員無故泄露揭弊者之身份者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣30萬元以下罰金因過失犯前向致罪者處1年以下有期徒刑均亦或客或併科新台幣10萬元以下罰金非公務員無故泄露揭弊者之身份者處1年以下有期徒刑均亦或客或併科新台幣10萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
34831.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
34853.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
第16條揭弊者之個人資料除法律令有規定或已無身份保密之必要者外揭弊者得請求以代號製作筆錄或文書遮隱其姓名、性別、出生年月日住居所身份證明文件編號或其他得以直接或間接方式識別該個人資料其揭秘有保密之必要者 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
34854.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
34872.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
以暗指引或簽寫代號代之並製作代號及真實姓名對照表以密封套、密封附卷前項筆錄或文書處法律利用規定外不得供閱覽或提供偵查審判機關以外之其他機關構法人或團體個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
34873.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
34890.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
揭弊者於偵查或審理中為尋訊問時得依其要求謀面、變身變相信訊傳送或其他適當隔離方式為之與其依法接受對質或解問時一同前三項之保密措施揭弊者得放棄之 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
34892.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
34918.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
第17條 揭弊者之揭弊內容有下列情形之一者人等依本法受有保護一、所揭露之內容無法證實但明顯虛偽不實或揭弊行為經受誣告未證罪還起訴或判決有罪確定者不在此限二、所揭露之內容涉及他人檢舉或受理揭弊機關已知悉但案件已公開或揭弊者明知已有他人檢舉不在此限 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
34919.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
34941.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
第18條因揭弊者之揭弊而查獲不法事實者應給予獎金但因行使公權令而得知不法事實之政府機關構及其所屬人員配偶或三親等以內知情署不在此限揭弊者任職之政府機關構法人團理或雇主對於揭弊者依法令所得領取之檢舉獎金不得主張扣抵 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
34942.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
34958.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
第一項獎金發給支標准及其他相關事項由主管機關匯同各目的事業主管機關定之但其數額不得低於違反法令者應揭弊所受罰還罰金、沒收捐財物或財產上利益、追捐價額、財產抵償之總額10% |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
34963.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
34985.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
第19條 為保障揭弊者之權益、揭弊者保護委員會辦理下列業務一、協助揭弊者依本法主張除去不利措施及請求損害賠償等權益二、提供揭弊者必要的法律諮詢與法律輔助三、協助揭弊者或其密切關心人依本法請求人身安全之保護措施及安置措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
34987.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
35008.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
提供揭弊者緊急之生理、心理醫療與生活重建之協助揭弊者保護之宣告倡議及研究其他符合揭弊者保護之事項主管機關應派專任人員或聘用專業人員懲處任務員之命、協助辦理揭弊者保護委員會之業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
35009.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
35033.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
第20條本法施行性則由行政院會同司法院考試院定之第21條本法自公佈後6個月施行宣讀完畢報告院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正好無文字修正決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
35037.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
35062.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
公益揭弊者保護法制報告委員會決議公益揭弊者保護法制定空過報告委員會本法條次及條文中之條次授權議事人員調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
35067.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
35084.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
報院會 黨團共事本案完成立法程序後 院會即行休息三讀後委員登記之發言 留待下週二院會再發言本日會議進行到此為止12月31日星期二上午9時繼續開會 現在休息 |