| IVOD_ID |
16424 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16424 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-26T08:30:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-26T14:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:35:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcc7e719fa4ce89b4f819ba3698dbd896e6d1319bf84c916822d3bf5b1b95f114e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分。
二、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案。
【12月25日及26日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:59 - 14:06:00 |
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1797.518 |
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現在繼續開會今天我們先介紹在場應邀列席的官員首先歡迎司法院王梅英副秘書長歡迎您另外台灣高等法院高金之高院長歡迎您另外有財團法人法律扶助基金會陳碧玉陳董事長歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1824.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1851.644 |
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那麼其餘列席的機關代表不再逐一介紹請參閱名單並列入公報記錄本日議程排定討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分等二案前經113年11月25日立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議報告及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1853.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1872.849 |
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決議均另定期繼續審查。預算提案於12月2日中午12時截止收件,源於今日繼續審查。現在進行討論事項。先請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項二案之全部預算書及所收委員提案。宣讀時間約20分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1875.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1901.876 |
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第一案114年度司法院主管稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第二十三項司法院第二十四項最高法院第二十五項台灣第二十五項台北高等行政法院第二十六項台中高等行政法院第二十七項高雄高等行政法院第二十八項法官學院第二十九項智慧財產及商業法院均無劣數第三十項台灣高等法院二百四十七萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1902.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1929.104 |
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二千元,第三十一項台灣高等法院台中分院五十六萬元,第三十二項台灣高等法院台南分院十萬元,第三十三項台灣高等法院高雄分院十三萬元,第三十四項台灣高等法院花蓮分院十一萬元,第三十五項台灣台北地方法院一千六百七十二萬二千元,第三十六項台灣士林地方法院二百七十一萬八千元,第三十七項台灣新北地方法院八百三十六萬元, |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1929.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1936.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
第38項台灣桃園地方法院1236萬元。第39項台灣新竹地方法院303萬3000元。第40項台灣苗栗地方法院193萬2000元。第41項台灣台中地方法院1655萬元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1945.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1954.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第42項台灣南投地方法院128萬元第43項台灣彰化地方法院196萬8千元第44項台灣雲林地方法院204萬2千元第45項台灣嘉義地方法院121萬元第46項台灣台南地方法院512萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1963.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1969.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第47項台灣橋頭地方法院296萬元第48項台灣高雄地方法院462萬元第49項台灣屏東地方法院269萬3千元第50項台灣台東地方法院83萬元第51項台灣花蓮地方法院128萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1982.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2005.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第52項臺灣宜蘭地方法院100萬1千元第53項臺灣基隆地方法院109萬2千元第54項臺灣澎湖地方法院60萬1千元第55項臺灣高雄少年及家事法院11萬元第56項福建金門地方法院10萬6千元第57項福建寧江地方法院無劣數第三款規費收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2006.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2015.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第14項司法院66000元第15項最高法院148000元第16項最高行政法院672000元第17項台北高等行政法院1152000元第18項台中高等行政法院3182000元第19項高雄高等行政法院4534000元第20項懲戒法院17000元第21項智慧財產及商業法院80525000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2034.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2048.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第二十二項臺灣高等法院3億6804萬元第二十三項臺灣高等法院臺中分院9394萬5千元第二十四項臺灣高等法院臺南分院3489萬8千元第二十五項臺灣高等法院高雄分院4849萬4千元第二十六項臺灣高等法院花蓮分院584萬5千元第二十七項臺灣臺北地方法院11億5725萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2063.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2070.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第28項﹐台灣士林地方法院413268000元。第29項﹐台灣新北地方法院5177767000元。第30項﹐台灣桃園地方法院56592000元。第31項﹐台灣新竹地方法院2118478000元。第32項﹐台灣苗栗地方法院67024000元。第33項﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2090.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2101.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
台灣臺中地方法院5億9千8百7十8萬7千元第34項台灣南投地方法院6千9百10萬7千元第35項台灣彰化地方法院1億6千2百4千3萬4千3千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2104.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2115.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第36項﹐台灣雲林地方法院7878萬7千元。第37項﹐台灣嘉義地方法院11174萬9千元。第38項﹐台灣台南地方法院32060萬元。第39項﹐台灣喬州地方法院18437萬7千元。第40項﹐台灣高雄地方法院41976萬3千元。第41項﹐台灣屏東地方法院12208萬1千元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2134.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2136.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第42項台灣台東地方法院32362000元第43項台灣花蓮地方法院78086000元第44項台灣宜蘭地方法院8139萬元第45項台灣基隆地方法院69294000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2153.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2161.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第46項臺灣澎湖地方法院17873000元第47項臺灣高雄少年及家事法院39623000元第48項福建高等法院金門分院2348000元第49項福建金門地方法院17146000元第50項福建連江地方法院3539000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2178.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2207.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第四款財產收入第二十四項司法院五十萬元第二十五項最高法院三萬四千元第二十六項最高行政法院四千元第二十七項台北高等行政法院二千元第二十八項台中高等行政法院四萬二千元第二十九項高雄高等行政法院八萬六千元第三十項懲戒法院三千元第三十一項法官學院七十八萬二千元第三十二項智慧財產及商業法院十二萬七千元第三十三項台灣高等法院一百四十萬八千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2208.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2225.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第34項台灣高等法院台中分院119000元第35項台灣高等法院台南分院40000元第36項台灣高等法院高雄分院170000元第37項台灣高等法院花蓮分院24000元第38項台灣台北地方法院746000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2227.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2235.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第三十九項臺灣士林地方法院192,000元第40項臺灣新北地方法院13萬元第41項臺灣桃園地方法院220萬元第42項臺灣新竹地方法院348,000元第43項臺灣苗栗地方法院37,000元第44項臺灣台中地方法院396,000元第45項臺灣南投地方法院11,000元第46項臺灣彰化地方法院55,000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2255.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2260.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第47項,臺灣雲林地方法院225,000元。第48項,臺灣嘉義地方法院8萬元。第49項,臺灣台南地方法院76萬元。第50項,臺灣橋陀地方法院1098,000元。第51項,臺灣高雄地方法院329,000元。第52項, |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2271.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2281.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
台灣平東地方法院88000元第53項台灣台東地方法院36000元第54項台灣花蓮地方法院58000元第55項台灣宜蘭地方法院309000元第56項台灣基隆地方法院24000元第57項台灣澎湖地方法院16000元第58項台灣高雄少年及家事法院71000元第59項福建高等法院金門分約1000元第60項福建金門地方法院30000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2300.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2325.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第61項福建連江地方法院1000元第七款其他收入第二十四項司法院3314000元第二十五項最高法院652000元第二十六項最高行政法院138000元第二十七項台北高等行政法院447000元第二十八項台中高等行政法院942000元第二十九項高雄高等行政法院640000元第三十項懲戒法院84000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2326.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2340.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第31項法官學院218000元第32項智慧財產及商業法院287000元第33項台灣高等法院1297000元第34項台灣高等法院台中分院2547000元第35項台灣高等法院台南分院1613000元第36項台灣高等法院高雄分院985000元第37項台灣高等法院花蓮分院705000元第38項 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2358.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2377.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
臺灣臺北地方法院銀翼零八百零七萬一千元第39項臺灣士林地方法院四千八百零一萬一千元第40項臺灣新北地方法院三千五百十一萬五千元第41項臺灣桃園地方法院三千五百七十六萬元第42項臺灣新竹地方法院一千一百六十二萬九千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2379.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2386.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第43項台灣苗栗地方法院3189000元第44項台灣台中地方法院39468000元第45項台灣南投地方法院2415000元第46項台灣彰化地方法院16964000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2397.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2403.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第47項臺灣雲林地方法院4056000元第48項臺灣嘉義地方法院4513000元第49項臺灣台南地方法院2022萬元第50項臺灣橋頭地方法院2086000元第51項臺灣高雄地方法院29926000元第52項臺灣屏東地方法院8088000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2422.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2431.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第53項臺灣臺東地方法院924000元第54項臺灣花蓮地方法院4576000元第55項臺灣宜蘭地方法院6174000元第56項臺灣基隆地方法院7732000元第57項臺灣澎湖地方法院581000元第58項臺灣高雄少年及家事法院759000元第59項福建高等法院金門分院800 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2450 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2453.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第16項福建金門地方法院第16項福建連江地方法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2460.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2469.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
稅出部分第四款,司法院主管第一項,司法院41億4947萬1千元,第二項最高法院5億5千151萬9千元,第三項最高行政法院1億6千996萬9千元,第四項臺北高等行政法院4億9千199萬4千元, |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2481.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2508.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第5項台中高等行政法院一億八千三百四十七萬七千元第6項高雄高等行政法院二億二千九百八十萬六千元第7項懲戒法院一億一千六百六十五萬六千元第8項法官學院一億八千九百六十萬六千元第9項世衛財產及商業法院三億一千九百四十六萬七千元第10項台灣高等法院二十三億四千五百二十四萬八千元第11項台灣高 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2510.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2518.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
等法院台中分院8億07028000元第12項台灣高等法院台南分院5億06126000元第13項台灣高等法院高雄分院6億53694000元第14項台灣高等法院花蓮分院2億07877000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2532.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2538.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第15項﹐臺灣臺北地方法院24182,649元。第16項﹐臺灣士林地方法院111,125元。第17項﹐臺灣新北地方法院1810236,000元。第18項﹐臺灣桃園地方法院1510576,449元。第19項﹐臺灣新竹地方法院7102536,000元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2558.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2583.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第二十項,台灣苗栗地方法院四億四千八百五十九萬八千元第二十一項,台灣台中地方法院十八億九千一百五十二萬一千元第二十二項,台灣南投地方法院四億零三百四十一萬四千元第二十三項,台灣彰化地方法院八億二千二百六十九萬六千元第二十四項,台灣雲林地方法院五億四千七百二十九萬五千元第二十五項,台灣嘉義地方法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2584.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2594.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
六億五千一百五十七萬二千元第二十六項．灣臺南地方法院十二億四千一百八十四萬三千元第二十七項．灣橋頭地方法院六億六千七百五十五萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2596.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2607.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第二十八項台灣高雄地方法院12億47176000元第二十九項台灣屏東地方法院6億90362000元第三十項台灣台東地方法院3億18319000元第三十一項台灣花蓮地方法院4億23459000元第三十二項台灣宜蘭地方法院3億88096000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2619.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2623.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第33項台灣金融地方法院4億39623000元。第34項台灣屏龍台灣澎湖地方法院1億52452000元。第35項台灣高雄少年及家事法院3億89065000元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2638.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2646.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第36項福建高等法院金門分院45045606,000元第37項福建金門地方法院Fi16964,000元第38項福建連江地方法院Fi37748,000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2654.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2663.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第二案司法院主管114年度財團法人法律扶助基金會預算書案業務計劃請參與預算書收支預算總收入16億9291萬4千元總支出16億9291萬4千元本期逾處0元結繳公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數固定資產投資2451萬3千元國庫增波基金額500萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2680.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2701.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
繼續宣讀委員提案部分請參閱提案彙整表及提案書面內容114年度中央政府總預算案委員提案彙整表司法院主管收支部分稅入預算部分第一案第二款罰款及賠償收入第三十五項臺灣臺北地方法院第一幕罰金罰還及貸金第一節罰金罰還第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2704.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2729.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第二款法款及賠償收入第三十五項臺灣臺北地方法院第二幕末入及末收財務以上二案均為委員審發會等所提之主決議案稅出預算部分第四款第一項司法院第一案派員出國計劃簡列八百萬元委員黃國昌等提案第二案第一幕一般行政簡列一千六百萬元委員黃國昌等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2730.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2738.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第三案刻目同前檢列500萬元凍結50%委員羅志強等提案。第四案刻目同前檢列300萬元凍結100萬元委員翁曉林等提案。第五案刻目同前凍結30%委員吳思瑤、吳立華等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2747.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2758.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
第六案,第一幕向下,業務費之水電費,減列370萬元,凍結20%,委員黃國昌等提案。第七案,第一幕向下,業務費之委辦費,凍結32萬元,委員審法會林淑芬等提案。第八案,第一幕向下,領一人員維持中人事費之獎金,減列330萬5千元,委員羅志強等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2772.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2791.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第九案第一幕向下零二基本行政工作維持業務費中業務費之特別費檢列一百零九萬五千元凍結一百零九萬五千元委員翁曉林等提案。第十案至第二十三案系針對第一幕向下零三辦理司法行政業務之提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2791.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2813.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
第10案緊列五千萬元委員黃國昌等提案。第11案科目同前緊列兩千萬元凍結百分之二十委員黃國昌等提案。第12案科目同前凍結一億四千三百八十萬九千元委員謝龍介等提案。第13案科目同前凍結百分之十委員黃國昌等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2814.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2829.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第14案坑木桐前凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。第15案坑木桐前凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。第16案坑木桐前凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。第17案業務費至一般事務費僅列100萬元凍結50%委員羅志強等提案。第18案業務費至大陸地區旅費凍結337000元委員謝龍介等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2843.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2862.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第19案坑木桐前凍結80%委員羅志強、徐巧欣等提案。第20案業務費之國外旅費減列200萬元凍結100萬元委員翁小林等提案。第21案坑木桐前減列23萬元委員鍾嘉斌等提案。第22案坑木桐前凍結30% |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2865.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2875.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
委員羅志強、徐曉新等提案。第23案刻目銅錢凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第24案第一幕向下臨時辦理電腦資訊作業簡列3000萬元凍結30%委員羅志強等提案。第25案刻目銅錢簡列100萬元凍結150萬元委員林思明等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2888.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2899.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
第26案坑木同前凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第27案坑木同前檢列4000萬元凍結30%委員羅志強等提案。第28案第三目審判行政凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2905.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2927.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第29案坑木同前凍結100萬元委員巫思耀等提案。第30案第三幕向下領一辦理民事審判行政凍結20萬元委員審法會零數分等提案。第31案第三幕向下領一辦理民事審判行政中業務費凍結三分之一委員審法會零數分等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2928.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2957.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第三十二案第三目向下零二辦理刑事審判行政檢列一千萬元凍結百分之三十委員黃國昌等提案第三十三案科目同前凍結二分之一委員謝龍介等提案第三十四案科目同前凍結三分之一委員審發會林淑芬等提案第三十五案第三目向下零四辦理少年及家事審判行政凍結百分之二十委員吳宗憲等提案第三十六案第三目 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2958.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2984.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
審判行政零四辦理少年及家事審判行政科目同前凍結一百萬元委員宗家兵范雲等提案第三十七案第四目司法業務規劃司法業務規劃嚴考凍結五十萬元委員吳思耀等提案第三十八案第一四目向下領域辦理研究改進司法制度業務凍結一百萬元委員吳小林等提案第三十九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2985.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2996.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
刻目銅錢凍結10%委員吳思堯、吳立華等提案第40案第5目一般建築及設備第一屆交通及運輸設備上下01交通及運輸設備檢列265萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3001.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3014.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
委員羅志強等提案第41案坑木同前檢列252萬元委員翁小林等提案第42案第五目第一節向下01交通及運輸設備向下中設備及投資之運輸設備費檢列265萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3019.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3035.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
委員黃國昌等提案。第43案第7目對財團法人法律扶助基金會捐助凍結1000萬元委員翁曉琳等提案。第44案科目同前凍結50萬元委員吳思耀等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3038.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3057.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
第45案至第63案分別為委員審法會等、委員林思明等、委員陳俊宇等、委員謝龍介等、委員鍾嘉斌等所提之主決議案。第46款第10項臺灣高等法院第64案第二目審判業務向下02辦理刑事案件業務凍結20%委員黃國昌等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3060.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3086.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
第65案坑木同錢凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第66案第二幕向下02辦理刑事案件業務中業務費之一般事務費凍結50萬元委員陳俊宇等提案。114年度財團法人法律扶助基金會預算提案。第一案至第四案分別為委員林思明等委員陳俊宇陳盈等分別所提之主決議案宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3089.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3117.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好跟委員報告剛剛宣讀的提案當中第7案第7案的提案委員更正為莊瑞雄那審法會委員是連署人然後第31案30案30案提案委員是陳俊宇那麼審法會委員更正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3119.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3142.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
聯署人第31案提案委員更正為莊瑞雄,審判委員改列為聯署人。第34案提案委員更正為陳俊宇,審判委員改列為聯署人。好,那麼我們先進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3145.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3165.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
預算書及所有提案均已宣讀完畢,進行討論前先說明預算案的處理方式。依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例,稅入部分依來源別以向為單位,稅書部分依機關別以目為單位,分別依序進行審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3167.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3186.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
各單位預算中於處理委員所提之爭三提案後其餘未涉及之預算部分均與照列有關正式別稅數預算隨同機關別審查結果調整預算提案經由整理後請分別參閱提案本及會整本來進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3188.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3210.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
另外,特別提醒機關稍後經討論決議修正之預算提案,請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後,送交主席臺並均列入公報記錄。審查預算過程中如有列行幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時,請先自行介紹職稱、姓名、必立公報人員記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3212.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3240.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
現在進行討論事項第一案繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分先處理稅入部分提案即兩案請參閱提案本集會診表稅入部分提案第一案及第二案依序進行處理那麼因為第一案跟第二案呢是主主決議主決議我看一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3247.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3265.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
請翻開提案表的P2目前聯署人陳俊宇委員在場請問是否同意修正?有簽名了嗎?簽名了,那我們就照修正同意後通過第二案請看 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3268.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3276.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
稅務案第二案修正動議已經簽名提案委員聯署人也在場我們就照修正文字內容通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3278.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3299.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
稅務部分處理完畢,我們繼續處理稅出提案。處理前先做說明,依照慣例處理時,按照會審表所排列的提案順序,依序由提案委員先就提案內容進行說明之後,再由機關代表予以答覆,然後再整目一起處理做成決議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3301.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3326.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那麼現在我們接著處理稅出請參閱提案本及會審表稅出部分提案依序進行討論那我們就請翻開到現在第一案第一案是簽案委員是黃國昌委員請提案委員說明第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3328.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3347.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我跟羅志強委員還有吳宗憲委員我們共同提出的第一案主要是在處理派員出國的計畫編列預算1028萬元在上一次執行的時候我們已經清楚的說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3348.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3365.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
上一次來報告預算的是司法院的前副秘書長他來報告預算的時候跟司法法制委員會的委員說司法院在編列預算的時候採取的是臨機預算的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3367.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3392.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但是實際的內容完全不是臨機預算的精神完全是剪貼預算的精神為什麼我說是剪貼預算的精神在送交本院的預算書說明當中我們的司法院院長明年的出國計畫是要率員赴法國考察違憲審查制度但問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3394.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3418.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
明年要去法國考察違憲審查制度那2024年也就是今年今年他們在去年的送來的預算書司法院院長要做什麼呢也是要去法國考察違憲審查制度那去年2023年司法院院長的出國考察計畫是什麼呢也是要去法國考察違憲審查制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3420.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3441.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
總而言之從2023年要去法國考察違憲審查制度到2024年要去法國考察違憲審查制度到明年又要去2025年又再寫去法國考察違憲審查制度只有兩種可能第一種可能是法國違憲審查制度太偉大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3442.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3471.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
而且他的變動情況非常的劇烈一定要每年都去如果沒有每一年去一趟法國去一趟巴黎走一下鄉瀉李瀉大道看一下羅浮宮本院的司法院院長沒有辦法精準的可以掌握我們法國的違憲審查制度這是第一種可能性第二種可能性司法院認為他們在編預算的時候編得再散漫 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3472.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3477.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
施法法制委員會都不會看 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3499.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3507.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第二個不是只有司法院院長這樣啊司法院副院長也是一樣啊明年說要去加拿大今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3509.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3530.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
之前寫的也是要去加拿大去年寫的也是要加拿大所以從2023年2024年2025年副院長要去加拿大這造成我們司法院的出國考察計畫一大奇觀什麼奇觀呢就是我們的院長在編預算的時候一定要連續三年去 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3531.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3545.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
法國我們的副院長在出國的時候連續三年一定都要去加拿大那到底是法國跟加拿大非常非常的重要而法國跟加拿大的制度對於司法院目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3548.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3571.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所在推動的制度改革又有什麼樣的重要性完全看不出來完全看不出來第三個問題是什麼第三個問題是不僅僅是預算書複製貼上甚至是直接掛羊頭賣狗肉為什麼說掛羊頭賣狗肉說要去法國最後也沒有去法國沒有去法國去了哪裡去了捷克 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3572.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3597.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
去了捷克那去捷克還要順便要經過奧地利沒有經過奧地利還不行九天的行程三天有公務其他六天就是要休息要交通要往返看完了去捷克憲法法院的考察報告我只能夠說空洞的程度令人嘆為觀止 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3599.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3601.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
連捷克憲法法院基本的運作規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3603.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3632.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
都沒有掌握我為什麼說連捷克憲法法院基本的運作規則都沒有掌握等一下羅志強委員會進一步的來加以補充做說明除了掛羊頭賣狗肉以外自己錢不夠編在其他計畫向下的他一樣可以挪來用只要奉何可變更就可以了那奉何可變更是奉誰何可呢奉司法院院長何可 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3633.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3650.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那簡而言之就是司法院院長要去捷克這件事情他自己何可何可變跟其他計畫向下的經費全部拿來用因為當初跑去捷克憲法法院的一團總共6個人總共6個人掛羊頭賣狗肉的預算書讓我們開始懷疑啊我們這麼認真的看司法院寫的預算書第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3662.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3678.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
看到複製貼上的內容覺得很離譜第二個理由是因為複製貼上也不會怎麼樣因為那個都是參考用的寫的東西跟實際要做的可以完全搭不上線那這樣子的一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3680.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3701.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
預算書編列的方式掛羊頭賣狗肉的執行方式甚至最後的成效讓很多納稅人在懷疑我們的司法院正副院長跟大法官到底是去觀光還是去考察到底是去觀光還是去考察那如果認為是考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3702.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3723.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那考察最後具體的成效在哪裡我上次請教了來列席的司法院的副秘書長他也說不出來他也說不出來所以這個第一個案子一定尊潔支出啦這樣子的支出毫無意義毫無意義但我也沒有全砍1028萬我只砍了800萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3728.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3753.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我只砍了800萬那這個案子我想我先做提案的說明到這裡那今天司法院有很多其他的案子那我如果人不在現場的話我也拜託了跟我一起共同提案的羅志強委員會來負責進行說明謝謝好那麼由於本案跨科目我們優先處理那接下來是不是有其他委員要接續來進行討論來請羅志強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3758.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3770.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我常在看有些美食節目說美食可以代表人的個性那如果是這樣的話我覺得司法院你們的院長的食物代表就是法國紅酒 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3772.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3800.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那你們副院長的食物代表是加拿大龍蝦啦你們整個立法院的食物代表日本壽司你竟然連續三年院長這個要出國的計畫的項目科目可以一模一樣全部都是去法國考察然後副院長連續三年都一模一樣全部都是去加拿大考察那你整個司法院派員出國全部都是去日本考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3801.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3820.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我覺得司法院如果你們這個司法院有放那個世界地圖的話你把世界地圖就留4個國家就好了中華民國、法國、加拿大跟日本要在司法院的考察世界當中全世界只剩下法國、加拿大跟日本嗎講白了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3823.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3846.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
就偷懶別人行事嘛連編個預算書連編都懶得編直接複製貼上加預算叫大家怎麼審查這是一個問題一啦那問題二就是說剛國參委員也講到啦基本上你們掛羊頭賣狗肉然後跑到捷克去訪問去參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3850.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3871.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我贊成啦我覺得捷克是一個很值得參訪的一個國家他們的憲法法院運作有百年歷史是非常值得參考可是問題來了我在這邊可能想要先救教一下你們28月的報告裡面只有半頁是講所謂的未來展望就是要怎麼學習捷克 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3872.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3892.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那你們整個的採訪這個參訪捷克得到最最重要的一句話叫做借鏡捷克憲法法院運作的方式我整本只看到這句話是精華中的精華要借鏡捷克憲法法院運作的方式我這要拜託我可能要先請我們的司法院這邊跟大家稍微說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3896.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3902.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
到底要怎麼樣去借鏡這個捷克憲法法院運作方式對我們的憲法法庭有什麼啟發? |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3904.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3905.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
請問其他委員有沒有要做詢問? |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3934.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3958.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
翁小林委員本席在第20案的部分其實有針對出國計畫提出意見認為也需要刪減不過因為項目的關係所以我現在就先將搭配著黃國昌委員這裡針對出國考察的案子一併講 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3960.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3978.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
就誠如剛剛黃國昌委員還有羅志強委員所說的其實司法院這幾年來是去法國、捷克、加拿大、日本去考察但考察回來之後到底我們學習到他們的憲法法院有何值得借鏡的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3978.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4005.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那麼這個以我們最近所提出的憲法訴訟法的修正案來說那麼其實訂定最低出席人數門檻那麼現在的這個最後通過的版本雖然是民眾黨的版本但是呢就是以參考捷克的模式為主那麼即便是法國或者是日本他們也都有很清楚的這個最低出席這個參與評議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4008.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4027.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
憲法法庭法官的人數還有提高作成判決的同意的人數。那麼就這個部分來講那麼到底我們的司法院院長和大法官們去這些國家考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4028.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4054.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那考察出來之後好像從結果來看你們也沒有學習到人家的長處反而在我們法案通過之後呢又發表了一個新聞稿說我們這次的法案通過是深表遺憾我都不知道說司法院在深表遺憾什麼這代表說你們其實出國考察你們根本沒有看到人家是怎麼運作的那麼這因此呢我基本上我也支持黃國昌委員這個江 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4058.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4079.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這次的這個預算出國出國考察的預算要大幅刪減那我在我後面的20案的部分其實也有他們其實去考察的地方其實有太多重複性那之後再講所以就這個地方來說待會要請副秘書長要清楚說明你們到底是去考察了什麼接近了什麼地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4082.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4103.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
主席,我請他們順便補充回答我的問題,大家回應的時候。好,那等一下我先做一個宣告。那麼因為剛剛我們的那個稅出的預算提案已經通過,那麼跟該案有關的機關代表,如果另有要供可以先行離席。好,謝謝,請繼續。因為我剛剛有提一個問題,就是到底這個捷克的這個憲法法院, |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4105.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4121.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們大法官我們的司法院要怎麼借鏡希望你們幫我們回答一下既然花那麼多錢去考察但也同時請我們的司法院的代表回答我三個問題捷克的憲法法院大法官有幾個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4122.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4123.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
接下來請莊瑞雄委員提出詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4143.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4159.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
好 謝謝主席還有在場的委員我們司法院的代表在我看今天大家討論這個問題也非常好啦但是最主要的一個目標就是說你們司法院被鎖定了你們就是盧主啦那今天為什麼提了這麼多案 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4161.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4172.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
很簡單啊就是其實它的核心問題我在看是要來掩飾說為什麼在國會在行使大法官同意權的時候把整個未來的憲法法庭給癱瘓掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4174.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4202.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那國人當然會震驚嘛那震驚以後在立法院當然要找一些理由來要你們要你們好好的做說明嘛其實我看跟整個預算裡面關聯性到底大不大司法院到底到底要不要提出非常專業的一個說明我看這個司法院沒辦法講清楚他不容易講清楚任何一個國家的一個憲法法庭他的一個設計裡面他的核心價值我看成每一個國家司法制度的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4203.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4205.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我反而會認為司法院以後廣邀英雄帖 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4218.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4222.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
去邀請全世界各國的憲法法庭到臺灣來好好考察一下說你看我們臺灣好厲害我們臺灣的國會裡面我們有辦法把整個憲法法庭他那個整個這個評議的人數10個把他動一個最低的一個門檻但是呢我們在國會行駛的時候都把他砍掉讓他你讓最低門檻你連評議的一個門檻你都達不到重點在這個地方所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4243.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4267.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
司法院我覺得特別要去注意啦,要去注意的地方出國的考察這些預算書裡面有時候啊你花了錢以後啊大家會認為說是公帑到底有沒有花在刀口上啊不然你說這個司法院去一趟出國以後考察寫了28月的報告這我看28月的報告很多欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4272.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4278.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
立法院裏面我們的報告,報告個頭啊,誰跟你報告。立法院是,你們司法院是管法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4280.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4305.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
一法審判我們立法院是立法那其實我看起來立法院才是法律無邊所以常常會要求別人標準是很高那我們自己實在是這個不堪聞問但是這九天裡面的行程那到底是一個行程裡面九天行程裡面應該去解釋一下扣掉飛機是多少到什麼地方去到底他的合理性只剩下三天的時候到底通不通 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4307.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4329.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個其實可以好好去做一個說明否則派員出國的計畫行之有年司法院的這麼多的法官或者司法院我們這麼多高官裡面要制定整個司法制度參考別人整個訴訟制度其實這幾年如果在我看來 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4331.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4348.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我從過去在當學生到現在,我看副院長很清楚啊,大家以前都看的是說這個侍送制度如何去改革。任何人,哪一個政黨在執政的時候啊,最受過病的,這個民眾信任度最低的其實就是司法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4348.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4361.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
但可是我對這個數字我常常跟其他人看法會不一樣司法跟其他人就不一樣跟其他的單位不一樣你行政部門你說我民調非常高或者首長民調會非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4362.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4388.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
他很簡單啊,他常常有一個支出裡面有一個新興的一個計畫老百姓會滿意啊我辦個活動老百姓會有幸福的一個感覺啊可是司法院讓人幸福的感覺不容易啊我跟陳俊宇來打個官司兩個人都不會覺得幸福啊一個判決下來搞不好各方對司法院多所責難啊陳俊宇委員的訴訟上的一個請求你沒有達到他的目標他出來罵死你司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4390.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4405.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我這個被告的人一個判決下來我也得不到滿足然後一般民眾因為我們兩個去鼓譟以後你那個整個司法的公信力整個司法的對民眾的喜愛性那跟一般機關本來會有所不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4406.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4418.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
可是呢,立法院在審酌的時候沒有人會管理這些他看的就是,欸,來我就是要好好叼你我前面做出一個決定了,立法部分我社會對我有所責難了我就必須要來轉移焦點到你司法院今天司法院你們是擄主你們還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4422.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4430.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我期待等一下司法院好好把這個部分其實有編的預算好好做說明也還好啦但是如果說要去我們本院的委員去要求對你們做哪一個國家的憲法的制度他應該是如何如何他是幾人怎麼樣確實你們也可以好好去做一個補充上的一個說明但是這種制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4448.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4460.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
你很難去講說誰是好誰是壞乾脆去講說我們根本就不需要憲法法庭美國也沒有憲法法庭乾脆把這個職權去修個把整個法制把它給修掉全部轉給最高法院就好了違憲的審查該哪一個機關這個都涉及到根本的一個問題但是今天整個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4470.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4485.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
到底會不會是像這個黃國昌委員講的裡面司法院的預算是隨便去做寫錢拿到手以後想去哪裡就想去哪裡把立法院當成一個橡皮圖章這個部分是很嚴厲的指控確實也該好好的來說明一下以上好那如果沒有其他委員的詢問我們就請針對本案請司法院機關代表說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4495.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4513.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
主席還有各位委員早安我是司法院副秘書長王梅英針對委員以上的就教的問題我簡要回答就是說其實在大法官出國考察我們的預算書編列之後常常會碰到情勢變更 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4514.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4533.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
因為就是大法官他會去參訪的那個機構常常是一個國家就是那個成績比較高的像是那個憲法法院那所以呢就是以前也有就是說都已經全部談好了那個之後呢那後來飛機票也買好了就後來就因為特殊原因所以就被婉拒了那在112年呢雖然說當時是編列到法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4538.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4554.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
但是當時我們受到了捷克他們憲法法院的那個邀訪那這個機會事實上是很不容易的這等於是突破外交上一個很大那個成就所以當年呢因為有這樣子的一個背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4555.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4568.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以就是本來是寫說到那個法國參訪就改到了那個捷克去那這是一個那個原因這是真的是因為是那個情勢變更那原來呢就是說在112年的時候已經預計去法國了嗎所以說在113年才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4572.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4591.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
一百一十二年沒有去程所以說才會在一百一十三年繼續編法國那在法國呢就是也確實也去了那個歐洲人權法院還有他們很多的相關的這個憲政機關那也有去了那個比利時的那個憲法法院這個是沒有編列那同時也去那個也去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4592.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4605.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那之所以114年還會在編那是因為113年到了法國之後呢要考察那個憲法委員會113年因故就是沒有去程所以說才會繼續在114年編列那我想這個是一點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4608.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4610.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
﹚立法院第11屆第2會期司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4626.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4638.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
去捷克是到歐洲而且是到中路所以呢9天的行程其實真正扣掉9天扣掉那個行程就是說飛機跟內陸往返真正去參訪時間是5天那這5天裡面呢有3天 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4643.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4672.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
二十到二十二號他是上午跟下午事實上是上午跟下午六個半天天天都是滿檔的那個行程那到了23號這一天呢原來也是有排行程的後來是因為碰到外力因素介入了之後所以說臨時取消那這個是我過去參訪常會碰到那個狀況這個是一個前提背景那另外我想就是說有關於那個一個那個立法的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4673.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4694.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這個因為要討論的非常多今天是因為是預算巡打所以在這裡沒有辦法去談太多那我想只能談一個大方向就是說我們在捷克看了什麼就是說或者是說各國他們有關於這個那個憲法法庭他們是怎麼設計的就是一個大方向如果說他們那個憲法審查呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4695.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4713.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
他們在那個他們憲法審查職權的那個行使是採就是說判決門檻採最低人數這樣子規定的時候通常他們都會搭配相對的那個配套措施像是說那個有指定那個代理有指定代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4714.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4739.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
或者是說那個德國他們就有甚至一庭他們有分兩個庭一庭的人就是說臨時出缺的時候他是到另一庭去指定那一庭那個法官過來這邊那個代理的那或者呢就是說上那個也有就是就是採那個終生那個終生值的這種那個配套那我要談的不是說我們要學他們而是說那個制度是一個有機的他是環環相扣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4740.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4761.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那像就是到捷克我們只能講一個那個大方向像他們有一個配套措施就是說如果說總統提名大法官之後呢那參議院他沒有在60天之內就投票一決的話他為了讓就是說他不要空窗期就是會產生一個空窗期所以他們就會就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4762.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4775.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
提名之後60天還沒有投票的話就視為同意任命也有這樣子的配套措施就是讓那個憲法法庭的運作盡量避免他就是說不要產生那個閒置那當然就是說委員所講的沒錯捷克他的那個設計是跟我們新通過那個法律是一樣的是15個人法定人數是15個人那出席門檻是10個違憲審查是那個9個那但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4788.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4809.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我想就是說我們有時候看到這個數字有時候也要去看就是說那怎麼樣的一個配套措施就是大家就是盡量避免就是說這個憲法法庭他會陷入就是說避免他就是說因為這個人數不到所以沒有辦法運作那我想以上那個簡單的那個詢答我看看我們書記聽那個有沒有什麼補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4813.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4839.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
來,書記廳有沒有補充?來,先補充,然後再撞委員好不好?是,主席、各位委員。我是憲法法庭書記廳廳長楊浩青。那補充剛剛我們副秘書長針對委員詢答的部分,然後這邊再做一個補充說明喔。那有關於剛剛委員垂詢,有關於本院院長率同大法官一行人到捷克考察,針對捷克憲法法院的運作到底在實際上考察, |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4839.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4863.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
然後回在這個實際上我們得到了什麼樣的一個借鏡的一個心得那覺得說在報告裡面可能講的不夠清楚那這邊我來做一個補充說明那首先其實我們在報告裡面有提到捷克縣法院他們跟我們一樣都會有設置一個審查庭的制度不過捷克縣法院因為他們是一個院長兩個副院長那他們就沒有排在審查庭他們是排四個審查庭來負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4866.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4891.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那其實跟我國的人數一樣的情況之下以4個審查庭來運作那如何能夠運作的有效率這個當時我們也是有在我們這個考察的範圍內那第二個部分是在法院的硬體的部分我們在裡面有介紹有關於捷克憲法法院的建築跟他相關的設計那因為其實司法院其實之前一直有在規劃有關於憲法法庭是不是要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4893.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4899.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
此外我們在報告裏面有跟德捷克憲法法院交流在COVID-19的疫情衝擊下那兩個國家的憲法法庭是憲法法院是如何的能夠維持正常運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4917.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4942.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
此外他們也有提供他們針對COVID-19相關的一些憲法訴訟他們的判決提出了一些他們的看法那這些我想基本上是我們有初步都有記載在這個報告內容那當然在這邊要跟主席跟委員特別報告的是院長跟大法官他們出國考察主要是我們的憲訴法畢竟是一個新的制度那我們多多吸取各國不同的違憲審查的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4944.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4970.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
其實對我們國家違憲審查的制度是有幫助的那院長層級的出訪其實他最重要的是建立司法高層的一個日後的一個交流合作機制那以這一次的出訪來說因為眾所周知捷克跟我國這幾年在各方面的合作友好程度都有相對應的提升那這一次捷克他們主動邀訪我們所以我們在原本的預算科目裡面去進行預算的那個地點去進行變更 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4973.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4990.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
然後因為對方邀訪那我們覺得這也是一個很有價值的所以我們就過去參訪然後後來傑克辛拉法院也回訪了我國就在今年的5月由現任的傑克辛拉法院院長率領他們一位副院長跟一位大法官他們的秘書長還有國際交流處處長總共五個人來台灣訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4994.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5009.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
跟國務院報告這個應該是我們司法院有史以來現任的憲法法院的層級最高的這個訪團因為過去有很多的政治因素造成了其實有些國家的首長可能是卸任以後才會來我們台灣訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5012.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5023.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個現任的訪團而且是正式的官方訪團其實對兩個國家建立日後的長久司法合作是有很重要的意義所以在這邊跟委員特別報告就是說當然其實我們日後也會繼續汲取其他國家的交流經驗就像剛剛我們副秘書長所報告的就是說回到羅委員剛剛所詢問的問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5035.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5063.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
關於門檻人數還有表決人數這個部分剛剛蜂蜜都有回答過事實上其實我們想要一併回答的就是說司法院當然不是說跟一個國家合作我們就一定覺得他的制度我們要引進其實我們當然是會參考很多國家的制度然後符合我們國情做一個最適當的選擇那以剛剛捷克來說他們在捷克的行政法院法裡面的配套制度就如同蜂蜜所報告的他會有一個避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5063.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5087.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
因為這個大官人數因為統一權的行使權缺過久他有一個配套措施那所以這也是司法院在過去強調說其實我們還是希望說在考慮最低出席門檻跟表決的門檻的時候能夠一併考慮到說那缺額的時候有沒有一個比較有效率的一個補足人數的方式讓憲法法庭能夠正常運作那以上補充謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5089.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5105.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
好,謝謝,剛剛因為專委員有先舉手,那羅委員再過來是羅委員。那麼謝謝金官代表的說明關於出國行程的變動的情況,常因為情勢變更,受到其他國家,或者是有壓力或是提高待遇的影響有所差別。那麼請專委員。謝謝周委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5108.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5118.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我剛我先把它回想一下我剛對黃國昌、羅志強或者翁委員的想法我現在改變了我認為他們倒是蠻善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5120.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5148.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
他們要你們去看這個捷克我看捷克憲法的規定裏面他是有很多很多很深奧的設計在裏面你像譬如說剛羅將委員或黃國昌委員要你們把捷克你們去參訪以後他們整個的設計憲法法庭的設計多去做一個瞭解其實也很好你說捷克憲法法庭裏面他如果說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5150.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5178.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
他們把整個大法官的人選送到他們的國會裡面去那國會裡面不作為是60天他就自然就生效了那這個制度你說叫台灣來做也不可能嘛這也不可能嘛我看德國聯邦憲法法院他在把他後來德國他們去做一個法律的一個修訂你連大法官的人數甚至大法官的年齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5180.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5201.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這一些來看的話,都還有任期。這一些他們自己都把整個基本法去做一個修訂。把他提高到這個是法院裡面內部的一個程序的一個自主。這個都已經納入他們基本法的一個保障。納入他們基本法的一個保障。那跟台灣當然國情會不一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5203.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5227.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
台灣現在司法院你們只是離開立法院你們很大而已啊到了立法院裡面你們會受到我們立法院尤其藍白連鎖把你們給摧殘了難道你們會不知道你們會受到這樣的一個待遇嗎可是呢整個憲法法庭的一個設計的一個本身呢這個確實是確實是很嚴肅的一個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5233.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5255.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
應該聽聽說司法院對於你就像德國他們本來受到基本法保障然後他們去擔心說整個司法的一個獨立尤其是憲法法庭他擔心去遭到遭到他們極右派的政黨那可能會壯大到在國會裡面他有辦法去阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5256.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5281.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
他們整個法官的一個任命然後導致他們整個憲法法庭癱瘓的一個風險這個反而他們整個國家裡面有去預作這樣的一個防範跟法制的一個修訂反而我們的憲法或者我們現在的憲法法庭裡面我們就少了一個設計啊少了一個設計就是說發生像台灣現在目前這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5283.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5309.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你新的訴訟憲法訴訟程序法修訂新法出來以後法庭門檻幫你做一個提高然後你現在整個憲法法庭要運作的你沒有辦法達到達到他的這個門檻在這一種空窗期的時候空窗期的時候該如何那我倒是很想聽聽這個部分就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5312.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5337.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
還沒有新的還沒有產生以前原來的憲法法庭哪一個國家真的完全放任他讓他癱瘓掉然後全部都不作為你以現在憲法法庭系屬在憲法法庭裡面的這一個120件裡面的解釋案那你叫這些人要怎樣去接打去走要怎樣那憲法法庭的法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5338.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5360.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
第一,他看到新法出來了,他要怎麼審?第二,因為新法出來了,然後呢,去提出釋憲的人,這些民眾,他怎麼辦?任何一個機關,你說五院憲政機關加總統府最高,它也是一個憲政機關,那這一些機關之間, |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5364.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5388.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
如果說今天立法院把行政院送過來的預算我們全部都把它不理它預算法有這樣的一個設計你除了新增的計畫或者說你被授權的支出那這些新增的計畫那這些你不能去動因為沒有國會的同意可是呢我們還有一個機關不關門就是馬照跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5393.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5393.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
五兆跳哪怕誰哪一個政黨他做大到國會國會裡面他可以完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5401.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5426.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
把各個機關把它給貪換掉但是法律有的設計就是經過上一個年度經過授權的你可以照樣讓這個國家去運作就是說機關它是可以不用關門的它的核心問題在哪裡核心價值在什麼地方核心價值就是說你立法院是憲政機關你行政院也是憲政機關立法院你是不能去貪換整個行政部門的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5427.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5440.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
如果這個價值到底是通的同樣的司法院也是一個憲政機關那司法院這個憲政機關可不可以因為國會有人多數你去把它癱瘓掉這個是核心的問題癱瘓掉是小事 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5445.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5463.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
攤換掉是小事可是對於人民的影響衝擊那是大事為什麼因為司法院本身身為一個憲政機關如果你自己本身沒有一套機制那到最後讓整個憲法法庭因為國會同意權的行使你自己毫無辦法讓你束手無策那就代表說你司法院你也沒有盡責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5473.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5482.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你司法院也沒有忠誠的履行國家科與你你的憲政機關的一個義務啊那司法院你身為一個忠誠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5483.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5505.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
一個憲政機關看起來這也不對啊看起來這也不對啊所以我反而會覺得說這120件裡面最近立法院大家在討論或者外面媒體在討論不知道怎麼辦有人要釋憲在我看法完全都不要釋憲這120件裡面大法官會議做出那麼多號的一個解釋以前你說你說申請釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5507.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5531.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
司法院可以釋憲 立法院可以釋憲 最高法院可以釋憲 西洋也可以釋憲 當法官就幫你做出來啊你各級審的法院你只要碰到說法律的適用到底有沒有違背憲法的時候 你可以裁定停止你也可以來 法律也沒有規定啊 法律也沒有規定啊門口就開啦 大門就開啦 所以我反而會覺得說司法院與其你們到這邊都會被蹂躪了 你就大膽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5538.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5545.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
因為全部都是法律人哪有這麼多法律人到立法院來碰到這些選票選出來的有幾票?你們就孬了聳了不對這不對我認為這不對五院啊五院啊都是憲政機關都是憲政機關但是因為涉及到預算名子名高立法院幫人民把關這是對的可是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5567.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5586.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個漫無事證的,立法院本來問證就是這樣子,立法院問證要有聲量的問題嘛,所以講話要稍微誇張一點,我這邊沒有人看,所以我在這邊講話,你看我們比較平和的坐在這邊,這個立法院我看起來就是他最優秀啊,他今天最沒有鏡頭的就是陳俊宇啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5587.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5608.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
為什麼?為大家把關很仔細再看。那我們就多點口水,就有人會報導。這也不好。這也不好。我反而覺得說這些提案裡面,到司法院可以好好去想一想啦。可以去好好去想一想啦。那這些提案啦,在我看來,這個都是唯唯舊招啦。這是唯唯舊招啦。闖禍了嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5614.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5630.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
先把法庭癱瘓掉了嘛老百姓不滿了嘛那當然要提一些案把你們給徹底把你們給不要說汙名化了就把你們刻意去做一個放大但是涉及到名字我只是這些理由我不介紹而已喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5631.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5655.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
但是這些預算該怎麼樣去尊潔支出國會的一個把關這是對的喔以上好謝謝莊委員的寶貴意見那主席台這邊先做一個說明因為剛剛主席台這邊接到詢問為什麼剛剛做個宣告准與臺北地方法院機關代表先行離席那說明一下因為呢這個跟他們機關有關的兩個稅促提案已經處理過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5657.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5678.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
第二個因為今天臺北地院10點的時候有一個重要的事情回去要做處理我相信其實不只臺北地院的機關代表我們剛剛也看到黃委員也匆匆離開把任務交付給我們羅委員所以我們想這個事情因為有人詢問所以主席還是要做個說明謝謝接下來請羅委員再翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5682.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5703.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我第一個先對主席這個裁定保持保留意見因為審到司法院的相關的那個業務的時候我覺得司法院出席人員應該還是要在這是對立法院最基本的尊重當然主席要放棄這個尊重要致見立法院那我也沒辦法因為你是主席我也拿你沒轍所以我還是要保留一個抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5705.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5721.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
但是我要跟大家特別問我還要再去問一下我非常認同剛剛專業選委員講說這捷克憲法法院他的聲傲的設計然後我們剛好藉此來釐清那我非常謝謝司法院已經非常清楚澄清幾件事情第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5722.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5750.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
捷克的憲法法院大法官他們就是成員15個人跟我們中華民國一模一樣而捷克他規定的所謂的審查的最低出席人數就是10個人跟這次憲訴法的規定一模一樣而他的違憲法律違憲的所謂的通過的門檻最低門檻也是9個人跟憲訴法也一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5752.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5774.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
第一點啊 民進黨不要再扯了啦 什麼叫違憲 捷克上我們今天司法院去考察得到結論要借進捷克的憲法法院的結論 啊捷克憲法法院已經100年歷史了 哇原來捷克憲法法院是違背憲政民主原理 已經100年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5775.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5803.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
值得我們來去借鏡啊我聽了半天我也非常謝謝司法院努力的在找洞講了一件事啊就是說他們有一個所謂防癱瘓的規定齁60天內名單提出60天內這個必須要行使同意權我想請教一下必須要行使同意權意思是我非得要投下同意票不可嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5804.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5807.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
是不是?請問司法院是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5809.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5835.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
是嗎?沒關係,我這個問法我就把它接著,我只要這個答案,很簡單的答案嘛,是不是?那等一下一位羅委員,還有莊委員要表示意見。這一等要請投同意票啊,不能投不同意票啊。等一下那個羅委員,那我們是不是請機關代表,就剛剛莊委員跟羅委員的陳述,那是不是翁委員同意先。沒關係啊,我不用問了,沒關係。主席要在那邊亂我也沒關係啊,我不問啦,總可以吧。我不問可以了吧。沒關係啊,我不要問了嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5838.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5855.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我不問了嘛!可以啊我不問啦!我不問啦!我就遵照你的旨意不問可以吧!可不可以!可不可以!你高興就好!我要跟各位說!我要跟各位說!我們要代理讓我們渥小林委員問!莫名其妙嘛!你跟我講60天內他必須要行使同意權 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5864.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5891.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
可以不同意阿,同意權其實只有同意跟不同意兩種而且今天照捷克的部分像德國法院名單還是用內閣制還是由國會提的當然就像專委員講的阿有很多不一樣的地方我要講什麼我就謝謝專委員阿為什麼你們今天如果提出配套來跟我講說60天內國會要進行人事同意權審查我都是想連述阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5893.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5914.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
可以配套我沒有反對配套啊但是今天回到今天根本上憲法法院我跟各位說講什麼我先講兩件事啊第一個不要跟我講什麼這個十個人三分之二出席叫癱瘓憲法法院你不要鬧了不要鬧了大法官死刑都要求一字決 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5922.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5935.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
才要求三分之二出席大法官這麼玻璃心莫名其妙嘛司法院還對限訴法通過表示遺憾你就做政治表態了那麼玻璃心大法官為什麼要求憲法死刑要以自決每個憲法判決都是攸關中華民國攸關國家發展幾十年欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5948.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5967.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
為什麼今天捷克的憲法法院要規定所謂的10人出席的所謂的相對的高多數的門檻為什麼規定9人投同意票的門檻就是因為知道捷克捷克就知道法院基本上法院基本上在做憲法判決的時候你就是務必要謹慎嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5975.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5997.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你輕易的宣告立法院的法律就是違憲難道不需要多一點的所謂的門檻嗎?這第一個事情我要講第一個事情要講我剛才請問委員去查捷克的憲法法院的提名國會扮演的角色是什麼?國會推薦權在哪裡?你要配套一起配套進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5998.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6025.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
捷克是像我們現在大法官是由總統獨斷提名嗎?也一起研究看看啊。一併研究看看啊。學也不要學半套。這第一個,捷克當然不是至高至理啦。不能說捷克用了我們就非用不可。但捷克就是你們今天去考察一個例子,所以今天才用捷克例子跟你講。這第一個,其他國家也有高門檻,沒錯吧。也有三分之二的門檻的嘛。不是只有捷克而已啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6026.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6048.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
還有很多國家也是採所謂的三分之二的門檻阿結果他們通通都違憲所以當然不是說其他我認同莊委員講的不是每個別的國家這樣做我們國家就要這麼做不是不是每個國家確實有不同的國境我認同這一件事情但是你說就你來講第一個國際歷史上不是沒有那憑什麼說我們台灣做就是違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6049.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6070.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
第二個我又跟我講大法官自己都講到一字訣憑什麼三分之二就要違憲第三個我要講真正關鍵在哪裡癱瘓癱瘓什麼今天以民進黨今天提出的名單你只要有一個名單你不要說今天違律侍從再多一個就好七個再多一個就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6071.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6087.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
跟在野黨商量不管是你把那個姚立民換掉還是把廖福特換掉你換一個換一個過去在很多的法學上不是唯律適從的你知道結果是什麼嗎?結果是什麼?結果就是通過啦兩個就過啦為什麼?因為劉靜儀就過啦但是被民進黨砍啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6107.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6129.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你民進黨先癱瘓了一個還跟我講說大法官不過就要癱瘓那我跟你講照這個邏輯下立法院根本不要有同意權然後同意權幹什麼立法院只要否決大法官就要癱瘓大法官同意權幹什麼要啊去敬高全世界國家大法官任何只要採取國會同意權的例子的國家全部都滾蛋啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6131.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6159.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
沒有 我要講完啦我們的莊委員 我要講完啦很簡單嘛為什麼要立法院同意我看到很多大法官說大法官不用顧民意啊笑死人了大法官為什麼不用顧民意立法院同意立法院就是民意代表為什麼要立法院同意就是你的大法官必須要兼顧民意民意不是唯一指標但民意是重要指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6162.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6189.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那如果民進黨多數的時候沒辦法多數形成的民意就是支持民進黨所以總統提名國會過沒話講但現在國會的多數民意不是民進黨的時候這個賴清德是連跟立法院商量都不用商量欸他不用去他40%不用去問60%的意見欸他直接提了名單之後然後你跟我講說沒通過叫癱瘓就有空窗期那我跟各位講民進黨就先癱瘓了一個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6190.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6201.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
民進黨全體打臉賴清德那民進黨是不是要貪50%的貪換責任因為剩下還有一個兩個就十個就到了就滿了就沒有你的貪換問題沒有說你的貪換問題再往第四點推貪換什麼啊賴清德還可以繼續提名兩個月內還繼續提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6210 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6227.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
他提名完以後他只要不像這樣這次亂搞一定要搞綠意大法官不要設定大法官資格像民進黨今天講的阿不可以罵民進黨阿罵民進黨劉靜怡就給我滾蛋阿你不要設這個大法官的不准罵民進黨積極資格以下次提名好好提名兩個有這麼難過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6232.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6242.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
他提七個再過兩個有這麼難過嗎?你認真提名就兩個有那麼難過嗎?劉靜怡就差一點過了啊!劉靜怡就差一點過了啊!所以我跟你講我今天剛剛去看司法院這樣回答說真的我都覺得我黃國昌三八百萬客氣了還在那邊找辯解找藉口我講的哪一條不是道理? |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6263.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6284.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我沒有說你一定要學捷克喔我先跟你講喔我承認捷克我沒有完全了解我沒有完全了解但至少三樣共識清清楚楚捷克就15人捷克的出席門檻就10個人捷克違憲審查門檻就9個人跟我們憲法訴訟法一模一樣現在賴清德說要釋憲了我就等著看等著看 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6288.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6308.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
你再宣布違憲看看阿我知道你們會宣布違憲阿我知道幫你們預言阿大法官今天淪落到邊緣是民進黨的側翼跟附庸嗎死刑民家黨綱你也要去護國會改革民進黨20年的主張結果你們今天大法官為了今天的民進黨通通宣布違憲大法官有任何公信力 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6313.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6326.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
今天不過好好審查也沒有廢掉大法官就是跟你講 你們一定要好好提名人不要一天到晚提這些黨議大法官再多提兩個非黨議大法官15個兩個非黨議大法官有那麼難嗎800萬啊 就減吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6335.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6351.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那個主席在那邊跟委員會說明我們原則上預算審查我們尊重每位委員的發言權那委員只要提出我主席這邊知道你要發言我會按照這個順序讓大家充分的發言那機關代表如果要答覆那請 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6353.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6375.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
跟主席徵得發言權後再進行答覆當然委員在闡述意見的時候會常常有一些問句這些問句因為前面有委員在詢問在前後面有委員等待詢問機關代表可以先做個筆記我們待會主席指派的時候再由機關代表來進行一併說明接下來請翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6376.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6396.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好 是 謝謝主席我就把剛剛羅委員沒有問完的問題我再請教這個副秘書長請問捷克的這個相關的法律是他們如果說國會沒有在60天參議院如果在60天之內沒有進行表決然後就視為同意對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6403.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6408.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所以我有進行表決,否決了呢?那這樣情況還構成癱瘓嗎?請副秘書長回答我可以請他先回答嗎?因為後面還有陳委員要詢問那您要針對這個部分因為你們互含互得太多今天我委員又請教你可不可以請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6430.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6438.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我要跟...請尊重委員...請尊重主席!主席現在在跟委員說明因為有...休息!謝謝你喔!莫名其妙!對啊你大了你要休息就休息啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6454.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6480.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
今天我們是依序讓大家充分發言完全讓大家充分講話你少來這一套啦我跟你講無所謂啊無所謂啊就一個簡單的問題然後在那邊卡半天就一個簡單問題卡半天我佩服你啦尊重主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6481.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6498.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我尊重你勒,你有尊重我們今天委員審案的所謂的提問嗎?你沒有尊重,我尊重你什麼主席?我幹嘛?我理你啊?你是誰啊?你是我老闆啊?你賴清德啊?你總統啊?你偉大啊?你厲害啊?對啊?憑什麼?你知道誰在後面講話?你講什麼話?我們司法法制委員會輪你講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6512.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6536.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
怎麼樣?怎麼樣?你偉大啦!隨便你啊!會咬人的林淑芬我好怕你喔!不要來咬我!好會咬人啊!最會咬人的林淑芬!佩服你啦!我告訴你我這輩子在路上只被瘋狗咬過!我不想被人咬喔!我不想被人咬喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6537.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6550.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
啊?什麼要人身攻擊?我講你咬人是事實吧?我有講錯嗎?我有講錯嗎?我講錯了嗎?你咬人不是事實?你咬人不是事實?早點走啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6552.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6558.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
來咬人啊!你們打人抓人我不能夠反擊咬人啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6573.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6590.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
議員：一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會11 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6596.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6607.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
議員：一、繼續審查司法院第12屆第2會期司法院及法制委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6622.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6630.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
只要林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6646.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6646.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6661.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6665.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6688.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6709.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6709.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6710.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6734.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6748.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我本來就不如陳玉珍啊!我就不如陳玉珍啊!陳玉珍就是國民黨戰將啊!國民黨沒有人會咬人啊!你是民進黨的戰將,咬人戰將啊!咬一臉啊!你最會咬人啊!沒有啦,我講的不對,但你咬人最對啦!你咬人最偉大! |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6758.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6758.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
拜託! |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6781.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6783.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
你不要聽莊瑞雄的話,你繼續講 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6809.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6824.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我知道你繼續說啊我知道繼續說啊你講一整天給你機會司法法制委員會男生不是跟女生吵架我從來都不跟翁小林吵架沒有人想要聽喔聽狗在那裏廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6828.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6840.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
你已經廢了一個小時了,人家也都聽得很煩了。我要來審預算了。你到底要給他整頓,要檢驗還是要解決?趕快講一講。他就不是男人,他根本不是男人。他是什麼?他連女人都不如。沒有啦,因為女人在旁邊看,叫女人去打啦。那個羅志強啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6861.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6875.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
他就不是男人阿不要在那邊再講了好不好他不是男人羅志強不是男人阿我不能講喔他可以講人我不能講喔那你問題你都亂搞人阿你都亂搞人阿你都亂打人阿中國人不要在這裏講廢話啦中國人不要來這裏講廢話啦中國人不要在這裏羞辱台灣的制度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6884.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6890.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
你沒有資格鬥他的制度智慧啦!中國人滾出去啦!中國的代表人滾出去啦!中國的代表人滾出去!你昨天講什麼?你是誰滾出來的?我是誰滾出來的? |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6900.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6907.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
翁小玲到底是不是中國的代表人台灣人都看得在眼裡了翁小玲昨天講什麼話全台灣的人都看在眼裡了中國的代表人翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6928.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6951.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6958.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6981.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
繼續講阿 中國的代表你敢說你不敢承認你最好像個人一樣我就是代表中華人民共和國代表中華人民共和國的翁曉琳代表中華人民共和國的翁曉琳 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6986.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6990.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
你就是昨天這樣講啊!你昨天講什麼?菁姐他昨天講什麼?他昨天講什麼?他昨天講什麼?他昨天講什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6998.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7019.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
大家都知道林淑芬是什麼樣的委員嘛大家都知道你是中華人民共和國代表的委員叫翁小玲代表中華人民共和國的委員叫翁小玲中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲中華人民共和國的立委叫翁小玲中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7022.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7025.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7047.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7069.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
你就是中華人民共和國的代表啊!你昨天就是這樣講啊!中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲啊!中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲!你就是中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲啦!欸?雖然一張公社位你也唸給我聽一下,我再馬上查一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7078.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7097.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這個都是召委的錯,沒有請大家喝咖啡。我讓你喘一口氣。我也讓你喘一口氣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7100.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7113.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
國在廢,我幫你廢幾聲。我是不會廢狗的,但狗一直廢,我只好罵一下。那你是誰啊?人民共和國的立委翁曉琳。有人說他自己是不會廢的狗,但他會咬人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7120.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7127.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
中華人民共和國的立委翁曉琳中華人民共和國的立委代表翁曉琳 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7145.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7157.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
你還講中共收復台灣有什麼不對?你就是中華人民共和國的代表!你就是中華人民共和國的代表才會講中共收復台灣有什麼不對?翁小玲就是中華人民共和國的代表!中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲才會說中共收復台灣有什麼不對?當然不對! |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7167.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7177.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
台灣人不會自己講中共收復台灣有什麼不對你就是中華人民共和國的代表中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲這就是中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲一家人間皆知翁小玲就是中華人民共和國的代表中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲翁小玲講中共收復台灣有什麼不對就是不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7198.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7209.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
就是不對!你翁小玲就是不對!翁小玲就是不對!你中華人民共和國的代表你閉嘴!中華人民共和國的代表你閉嘴!中華人民共和國的代表你閉嘴!中共不能沒有資格收復台灣啦!能收復台灣你放屁啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7224.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7229.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
你就是中國狗你就是中國狗你就是中國狗翁小玲中國狗翁小玲中國狗翁小玲中華人民共和國的代表中國的狗中國狗出去外面中國的狗滾出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7252.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7275.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們繼續跟委員說明今天我們做預算審查我們尊重每位委員就預算內容所提的各種主張跟聲明那麼至於要機關代表答覆那請委員提出後我會指派機關代表來進行答覆那剛才呢有翁委員表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7276.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7305.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那麼因為後面也有陳俊雲委員,現在有莊立文委員舉手要請求發言。那麼請問一下翁委員,您是要機關代表先就您剛才問題進行答覆嗎?我本來就是非常簡單,兩秒鐘的問題。那請問那個陳俊雲委員,讓機關代表先答覆好嗎?我們先處理一下,如果兩位委員同意,那麼翁委員有一個問題要先請機關代表就他問題答覆。那翁委員你要不要再重述一遍,然後再請機關代表回覆? |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7305.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7314.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我的問題就是說依照捷克的規定,如果國會在60天之內行使了否決權,這還叫做癱瘓憲法法院嗎?好,那要機關代表回覆,那就請機關代表王滬密司長做說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7323.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7339.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
是的,就是說那個不管是在台灣或者是說在捷克他們的國會怎麼行使那個同意權這都是那個國會那個職權那至於說這個是不是癱瘓我想這個是一個判斷這個不是司法院所能夠回復的 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7339.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7342.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以你們去參考捷克憲法法院沒有成果沒有成效嘛對你們去參觀了日本加拿大法國還有什麼其他這些國家你們有去學習到人家的憲法法庭怎麼去解釋權力分立原則的精髓嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7357.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7362.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
沒有啊這些國家哪個國家不是有這個處罰藐視國會處罰官員在國會說謊的這相關規定憲法法庭都可以說那是違憲啊這個行政官員對國會啊只是負政治責任不負法律責任我這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7373.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7380.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
非常佩服這些大法官們到了這些這個所謂的這個憲法先進的國家裡面去學了學到什麼?學到了跟我們一般的理解一般過去所讀的書都不一樣啊對不對?所以由此可見這些大法官們出國去考察沒有一點成果另外大法官是一年365天都在工作嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7400.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7418.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
大法官就我所知大法官這個七八月他們也會放個暑假然後呢這個過年然後之前呢也會放寒假那這段時間就他們出國考察的時候請問大法官出國的時候大法官放假的時候是不是也是在癱瘓憲法法庭他們有審案子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7421.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7439.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以只是短暫的時間憲法法庭沒有運作就說他是會癱瘓憲法法庭這種說法成立嗎我們這次通過的憲法訴訟法另外也要求就是如果大法官缺額那麼這個就像是這個禮拜二人事選沒有同意通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7441.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7461.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
總統就要在兩個月之內競訴補提名補提名之後送到立法院立法院要競訴審查這樣不會造成憲法法庭的所謂的癱瘓所以我覺得司法院的種種說法都無法讓人接受還是你們心中已經預期反正賴清德也不會再提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7462.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7463.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我還要再講就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7482.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7497.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
德國、歐盟國家尤其像德國、奧地利這些國家他們司法的信任度高達7成5、8成你看看我們台灣的司法信任度 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7498.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7527.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
笑死人我之前去做過研究我們的司法信任度大概只像是歐盟國家裏面什麼羅馬尼亞這個斯羅伐克斯羅伐克都還比較好我們是很低很低的二三成這跟人家德國能比嗎上樑不正下樑玩要司法大家對司法信任你大法官沒有建立好公信力誰會相信司法是公正公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7529.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7550.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
今天大家這個看清楚你們派員出國的這個種種的這個計畫確實是沒有任何效益我基本上我並不反對司法院應該要這個出國考察但你考察出來要有成果嘛看到人家的優點見賢思其焉見不賢內自行也 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7551.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7560.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
結果呢,人家的常駐我們都沒有學習到。然後自己呢就在那邊造線造法。也難怪為什麼大家對司法院的預算這麼有意見。好,以上。好,謝謝。那麼接下來因為有陳俊偉,要讓莊委員先嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7570.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7574.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
謝謝主席我們預算已經討論了蠻長時間我覺得應該是我們主管單位對於相關的計畫的配套並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7585.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7610.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
很詳細的說明清楚才會導致委員對於我們這個預算有這麼多分歧的意見那我在此也建議就是我們這個出國考察我覺得這是利益良善也是要取長補短能夠參訪這個歐洲及一些先進國家的相關憲法的執行情形這也是要讓我們在推行相關這個憲訴法還是相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7613.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7618.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度兩天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7632.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7648.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
希望能夠在這個歐洲及這個先進國家裡面看到他們行之有年的這些制度能夠讓我們來做一個非常快速的一個參考的一個依據那我覺得這都是很好的一個方式可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7649.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7670.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就是看起來我們可能在整個過程裡面沒有很完善的一個規劃的一個說明所以我在此也建議我們司法院是不是要提升我們司法院的相關審查這個制度還有運作模式應該是要能夠好好的去審視 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7672.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7688.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
因為我再次建議這個主席,因為這個案子已經討論這麼長時間,是不是針對這個預算,既然大家意見相著的話,是不是保留預算?好,謝謝陳委員。那麼因為陳委員要求,那程序上我跟委員會做個說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7690.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7706.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
本案是第一案,內容涉及到大部分是國外旅費。國外旅費的部分在第一幕當中有第20案也是翁委員所提,21案是本席所提。 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7707.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7723.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
二十二案是羅志強委員所提那因為相關的內容剛剛在國外理會的討論當中各委員都已經充分表達那徵詢這二十、二一、二二是否並同第一案那我們剛剛有委員提議說就保留同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7725.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7748.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好,那麼那我們第二十二一二二及第一案呢就因為是出國旅費那我們國外旅費我們就第一通案保留送院會協商那因為跟本案齁類類似的也跟委員會徵詢齁那因為十八十九他是一個大陸地區旅費性質呢跟國外旅費 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7750.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7776.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
接近那麼第18案已經撤案那19案的部分請教羅委員您覺得是否可以併案處理好那我們19案也併第一案依國外旅費的通則保留送院會協商謝謝委員會好那麼接下來我們進行第二案那麼第二案到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7778.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7805.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
到第27案都是第一幕那其中呢第2、3、4、5案他已經撤案了那麼這三個案子呢都是屬於關於對外宣導的部分那是不是這三案我們分別請羅委員跟因為黃委員不在好那請羅委員跟翁委員就這三案來進行做提案說明請羅委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7808.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7810.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
事實上我們司法院編列了所謂的綜合性司法政策對外宣導溝通的經費大概是1600萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7828.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7843.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
然後另外脫波的部分加進去大概是2350萬元可是實際上一方面除了說總體來說你就發現司法院過去人民對他的普遍信任度跟了解度都不太高啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7844.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7862.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那8月台灣司法公正度實施的議題調查有高達84.2%的人不瞭解2016年至今政府所推動的司法改革內容那甚至有近半49.2%的民眾不相信司法會作出公正判決這總體的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7864.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7887.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
但是另外我們從個體的部分就是說你就發現司法院媒體宣導案多項與國民法官制度相關但是根據立法院預算中心的評估報告司法院國民法官預算執行率低落那麼112年才只有19.48那麼國民法官預估的實際案量落差甚大 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7888.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7915.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那112年預估案件是305件但實際收案只有108件連年雜大筆的沒宣預算毫無成效是浪費公帑所以在黃國昌主題的這個案子上他是主張減略預算是1600萬那我的部分的話是主張減略500萬那我是建議就是說是不是就保留送那請他們說明以後看怎麼樣處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7917.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7944.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
接下來第4案的提案人是翁曉琳委員請做提案說明因為我有發現這個司法院他這些年來他這個基本上編了蠻多的錢去做媒體宣導可是呢事實上成效不高這在我之前在質詢的時候我都有詢問過那麼更何況其實司法院更應該專注在司法審判的業務上面那麼有關於像是這個什麼法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7945.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7946.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7974.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7977.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
議員．一、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法院及法律扶助基金會總預算案關於司法院及法律扶助基金會10年度預算書案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7998.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8021.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那麼刪除300萬然後凍結100萬而且請司法院在兩個月之內要向司委會提出專案報告並經同意後才可以凍值好那麼因為剛剛第二案提案委員黃委員不在那剛剛羅委員是不是已經就您的部分一併說明了好那麼三案提案委員都已經說明那是不是請機關代表回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8022.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8022.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
國民法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8044.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8064.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
已經有大幅提升了,這先與說明。然後接下來說,這一筆預算,國民法官它事實上只是占,國民法官制度只是占其中的一部分,112年之後就沒有再針對國民法官制度編列專門的宣導預算,都是併到這一項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8066.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8067.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
司法院函送財團法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8081.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8109.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
推行的這個新的那個司法制度我們有必要讓那個民眾那個瞭解就是說這些那個制度的內容是什麼那像那個明年114年重要的這個新的那個精神衛生法這是一個很大的那個變革就是說有那個強制住院要由那個法院審查那像這個是一個完全新的一套制度我們有必要就是讓那個民眾瞭解就是說怎麼去使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8110.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8117.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
進到法院來怎麼使用這一套制度那又例如呢就是說那個大家都知道法院是非常血汗的吼就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8119.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8141.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
收的案件量非常多但是人員沒這麼多所以我們就要利用各種比如說新的這些工具比如說像這個我們一直在推廣這個線上申請民事訴訟或者是那個強制執行還有這個電子債券的這些新的制度或者是說希望大家多利用這個訴訟外的紛爭解決機制ADR |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8144.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8152.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
或保護被害人新的訴訟參與制度以上這些等等我們都是要透過這一筆經費再做一個和民眾的宣傳以上好 那麼請專委員提詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8165.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8182.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我倒覺得翁委員這個地方可能你們要再考慮一下啦。如果說他編這個預算,立法院這邊有所不滿的話,我也會不滿。但我不滿的原因剛好跟你們相反。我會覺得你們編這個預算就真的編得太少了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8183.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8203.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我覺得你們編得太少了一個訴訟制度的一個性格或者說一個重大制度的一個改變那會對現狀產生衝擊但你對於說整個會去使用到整個制度的一個改變的人你本來就是要讓他知道立法院立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8206.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8235.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
就比如說一個制度改變在經過立法院這邊的一個同意以後法令的一個修訂以後立法院是在審裡面很清楚啊早上審到這個這個這個時候我們這裡是不談專業的啊這裡是不談專業大家是大家你至少要有點聲量啊然後吵架吵贏政黨會有政黨的立場可是呢我碰到司法院的部分我常常都會去想就因為啊他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8236.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8262.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
從過去到現在大家談司法改革談到現在他的信任度都不高但不高我對我跟一般的人理解會不同他以後也不會高到哪裡去以台灣目前的現狀他也不會高但問題呢你編了這2350萬你像比如說一個新的國民法官法他這個制度一上路以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8264.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8284.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
不要說一般民眾不知道連國會議員我看都十分之九全部都不知道連國會議員都不知道啊所以這個制度你本來就必須要去做宣傳必須要去做宣傳倒也不是說司法院有辦法拿這兩千多萬去好像去為自己來做美容不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8286.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8296.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
司法院沒有什麼好美容的啦還有沒什麼沒什麼好美容的那只是說去今天做這樣的一個簡略的一個理由是講說司法院國民法官預算執行率偏低這個像112年19.418%那就是說國民法官預估跟實際案件量落差會比較大那也就是因為落差太大所以你們就必須要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8314.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8326.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個部分司法院再去加油的一個地方,不然其實整個涉及到制度改變,就算沒有這些新的制度,我都認為以現在在打詐來看的話,司法院也可以多盡一點力,宣傳的人各個機關其實都 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8334.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8355.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個也不是單一啊就只有這個檢察官的事情啊或者說警政機關的一個事情啊有時候常常我會看到說一個判決做出來以後啊好像是各方多所責難但是這個責難裡面呢常常都帶有民粹啊那只像這種時候的時候關鍵時刻你反而司法院也可以來講講話那這一些來看的話以提案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8361.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8366.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
提案的理由要去做一個簡略就是說你的案件數啊太低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8367.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8395.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那我看來是你們應該把它執行的狀況再去做說明啊下一次啊我期待你們這個這一筆的預算對於制度性格的部分啊我認為你們下一次要去把它做一個提高啊那我們因為我們在國會在審預算的時候我們不能要求增加支出嘛但是我是做這樣的一個建議啦做這樣一個建議啦因為制度啊是大家的啦啊如果這個看完了以後我看就保留啊但是主席要譴責你的咖啡還沒來 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8400.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8410.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
謝謝,剛剛莊委員似乎是要提議要保的,但是有翁委員要發言,那是要先處理還是您的提議?好,那請翁委員發言對,因為我是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8414.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8426.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
很在意機關做的媒體業務宣導它的成效是如何。我砍預算、刪預算,我不會無地方使,我都是有憑有據。那麼以剛剛副秘書長這邊講的幾個重點, |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8431.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8458.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
比如說您說這個ADR訴訟外紛爭解決機制這個很重要那我也認為這個宣導很重要那我實際上看了你們司法院的YT頻道上面這個影片它的確效果不錯有44萬次的點閱而我認為如果說這樣的一個影片做成它已經有發揮這樣的效果它其實可以繼續的再傳那麼就這個ADR的解決機制它這個法律通過之後目前你們有修法嗎沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8461.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8487.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
有嗎?就目前沒有新的修法嘛所以這個影片它可以繼續再用你們也不需要再去花錢再去做這方面的宣導然後呢另外呢但是你們自己可以去看看司法院的YT頻道裡面非常多的影片它的點閱率是非常非常少幾十次二、三十次、四、五十次然後您剛說的國民法官的他一年前到今天是638次 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8494.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8516.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這個影片的點閱量其實是比很多的其他機關的要少當然這也不是只有司法院的問題我自己也看到很多機關所花的錢做的相關的影片的點閱量非常非常低我想請問在座的這些法官、庭長們你們平常有去看過你們司法院做的影片嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8517.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8544.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
做的YT影片嗎?我相信應該沒有,因為我上次就質詢過了。那麼所以我就本席是認為業務宣導、法律宣導固然重要,但是整個司法的公信力的建立絕對不是在你們這些做影片啊。那麼影片做完之後一次性你要怎麼樣去把它宣傳出去,這個不需要再花這麼多的錢去做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8547.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8564.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以我想這次你們是編了2300多萬我也只不過就是說刪了一成左右的錢我是希望你們可以把相關經費用在刀口上而不是做了很多沒有太大意義的這樣的一個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8565.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8566.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8581.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8598.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好謝謝翁委員那麼因為翁委員要請機關代表回覆那也提醒剛剛莊委員是提出要做全案保留所以我這邊就兩點機關代表待會回覆的時候請表示您的態度第一就是就剛剛委員所詢詢的部分請做說明第二那麼因為剛剛羅委員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8600.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8618.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
委員和委員都要分別要求檢列五百萬跟三百萬那以及分別凍結百分之五十及百分之一百萬那就這個部分是否要表達機關的看法那我再做一併處理記得專委是提出要保留機關代表王副秘長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8619.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8639.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好,那個謝謝主席跟委員齁那個有關於翁委員就是說請我們提高那個製作影片的那個點閱率齁我覺得這個非常感謝委員提醒那這個我想我們會就是說在以後製作的那個影片還有就是已經上架了我們會去做一個盤點那這個是我們就是會努力的方向這個謝謝齁那我想我剛剛那個舉例只是說我們這一筆那個經費呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8644.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8667.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8667.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8670.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
﹚立法院第11屆第2會期司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8684.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8709.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我之前一直在辦那個刑事那也是去擔任那個地院院長之後也才知道說這個制度是怎麼run的那但是呢這一個制度就是確實是跟那個民眾的權利還有跟整個醫界事實上都會產生一個很大的一個變革那所以真的是有那個去去做那個溝通那個必要那等一下我看那個婷筠要補充好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8710.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8724.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
好,那麼有廳長要做補充嗎?是,各位委員好,我是司法院新聞及法治宣導處的處長陳亭玉關於委員問到說司法院那個YT頻道的部分影片就是點閱率很低的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8725.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8728.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我是要說其實我們做的影片有一些是做那個媒體投放的所以是我們會因為根據民調啦一般民眾對於司法訊息的來源很大部分還是來自電視啊網路啊廣播等等的不同的媒體所以我們會製作相關的政策宣導的素材在這個四大媒體上做投放 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8748.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8753.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那所以這個影片呢他所觸及的民眾的那個數量並不能只看這個我們YT頻道上的點閱率那其實我們除了在四大媒體上播放之外我們也會利用很多這個公益脫波的或是說在辦活動的時候來播放這個影片所以這個我們相關這個政策宣導影片的播放量絕對是不止於在那個YT頻道顯示的那個數量這個部分可能要跟各位委員補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8781.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8796.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
現在已經說明完畢,那對於本案有委員提案要檢列或凍結,也有委員提案保留,那請問來表達看法,對於檢列或凍結的意見。主張要保留這個我們尊重啊。好,那麼我們在這邊跟委員做個報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8798.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8823.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
第二案第三案第四案我們就保留送院會協商那第五案測案那接下來呢第六案是水電費那因為是不是有保留因為我跟委員說明因為我們過去好幾天來都做水電費的部分最後結果都是通案保留送院會協商是我同意第六案直接通案保留送院會協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8824.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8852.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
同意好謝謝羅委員接下來第7案那因為有改書面有要報告的部分那是不是提案委員莊委員或林委員在場要做說明這個已經說明過了我想我們就同意他就是維持原動數但是這個專案報告改成書面報告好書面報告後同樣的概念就是說司法的形象不是一個委辦計畫或者是影展所以您的意思是說送書面報告使得動之是不是並經同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8853.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8871.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
要並經同期嗎?我們那個專委員跟那個其他委員的看法,我們是不是討論一下?書面報告,因為那只是一個引轉的經費而已。他可以並前面的一起報告。並前面。第七案。他就是專案改成書面而已,他們同意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8885.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8913.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那只是一個引轉的經費預算編列數是32萬等於全數凍結是吧對它只是一個引轉的經費我跟委員報告一下吼那個也跟林委員吼莊委員說明吼因為呢並經同意啊那麼這個在程序上我們就要進入到委員會司法法制委員會的討論事項但是主席是並前面的第四第五案一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8914.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8939.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
他也是要經同意。前面的第11屆他們是保留了。跟林委員說明,這個案子它的全數是32萬。如果你單獨凍結是送書面報告後使得凍支,那麼等到他們越快把書面報告送到委員會來排報告事項就可以凍支。但是如果您是要經同意後,我們委員會要排討論事項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8940.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8961.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那討論是這樣,我跟委員說明,昨天我們在審查總統府在去年﹖不是,那只是一個引轉的經費而已﹖是,我說明一下,丁委員,總統府去年的委員會﹖本委員會有做出對今年度預算在12月19日進行凍結,那麼該凍結案也是到今年的昨天 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8962.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8963.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8977.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8998.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我還是說明一下 那麼全部的沒宣費用3200未來送院會協商後的內容不管是準與多少 那如果你主張簡列 這個30萬都不可能放在裡面 因為你是全數簡列我們是一個這個目的下 如果涉及到剛剛的所謂的媒體的對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9000.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9000.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
但若非…… |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9011.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9035.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
不是還是有通過多少預算那這個32萬縱使有通過預算也不能使用在這個項目向下所以您的意思就是說要全數刪除的意思主席我知道因為我們知道我其實因為在野黨講很多我也不想再多說很多因為提升司法形象絕對不是靠一個影展就可以解決的也不是公關叫這個行銷費用可以解決的所以司法形象其實需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9036.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9049.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
從制度面還有執行面還有所有全體司法人員的這個努力所以這個32萬的影展其實我們要宣示的就是說其實司法的形象不是有計劃你你你這些人辦一個影展就可以解決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9051.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9066.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
瞭解林委員的意思那提案委員、專委員那是不是這樣子我們徵得委員會同意那本案就並同就不用去什麼凍結啦專案報告啦什麼就是全案保留送院會協商就一樣嘛因為你是包在那個媒宣的預算當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9068.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9087.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
但我們是指定的當然當然但是但是在全案協商的時候保有信用協商的時候呢這一個項目還是一樣是討論的標的之一好啦我知道OK那機關代表要不要做要需要做回應嗎還是都沒需要他們簡略他們好讓讓他們那個會計主任這邊來這32而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9093.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9096.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
如果委員會同意那我們本案呢一樣第7案保留送院會協商接下來我們進行的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9117.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9138.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
第8案,那第8案是人事費,那人事費的部分是不是請提案委員羅委員﹖有改了,對不起,有改組決議,抱歉抱歉,因為這個更新的這一版。好,那麼第8案改組決議,那第9案是屬於特別費的部分,那提案委員翁委員請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9140.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9159.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
因為這些年來其實這個司法院在整個民眾的心中是無法取得更高的信任度大家普遍對於司法是不信任不信賴的那麼同時呢那麼司法院似乎在 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9160.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9183.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
解決法官過勞的議題上面也都沒有任何積極的作為就代表司法院的院長、副院長等人他們領導無方那麼在過去這個SIF改會議裡面有些重要的項目也沒有去積極的落實成效不彰所以從這個觀點來看這個司法院院長、副院長、副秘書長還有秘書長的這個特別費應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9191.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9213.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
要有所刪減否則的話這個實在是對台灣的社會台灣民眾而且對於司法人員是沒有盡到他們的心力因此本席提案就是刪除、剪裂預算109萬然後凍結109萬然後也請司法院兩個月內向司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9218.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9239.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
司法法制委員會提出專案報告後才可以動之。好,謝謝翁委員。那麼因為主席這邊有義務要做一個提醒。那麼根據大法官釋制第601號在民國94年7月22號的解釋對於立法院刪除大法官司法專業加給之預算是否違憲。這個部分有一個釋憲文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9243.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9264.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那其實他大意是說其實就這個部分到底要刪除的預算立法院在做預算審議的刪除的部分如果涉及到的是屬於包括政府院長、大法官、法官涉及到屬於信奉的部分那麼是跟憲法第80條有違那我是把這個四憲文 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9265.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9273.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
提告給委員會做參考。那麼還是請機關代表做說明。還是有其他委員要表示意見。那翁委員繼續。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9274.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9276.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
關於司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9297.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9298.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9319.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9322.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這個他的專業家級來看的話我是認為他本身就是法官身份出生的就應該跟一般法官一樣即便他當了大法官他的專業家級仍然是要保留可是對於那個非司法事務界出生的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9337.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9343.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
他不是就跟一般的這個徵務人員一樣啊就一般徵務人員法務部部長有特別領個什麼專業佳績當然現在法務部長如果說他本身他是司法人員的話可能還是繼續有這個專業佳績喔所以呢這個地方的確是可以檢討那現在本席所提出來的第9案那並不是刪除大法官的專業佳績而是特別費這個特別費在我們其他機關包括我們正式思委會審查其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9365.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9365.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
謝謝翁委員,那剛剛莊委員有舉手是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9391.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9418.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
來請這個我特別來跟翁委員提醒一下這個是20年前的事了20年前那個時候也是國情聯手然後提出這樣的一個修憲案那其實後來被在499的時候其實就被大法官宣告鬼憲那整部你現在提到的說我們要來修改法律這沒辦法修我也很不滿但是沒辦法修 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9421.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9427.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
你這個還是會免費到憲法裡面的規定。真的啦,會有這樣的一個問題啦,否則你說這一條的一個規定,這一條規定當然可以爭論啦,你說終身職也好啦,好多特殊的保障也可以啊,但那涉及到的是一個價值的一個問題啦,不然也很好啊,你們去提案啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9447.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9448.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
憲法第81十一條裏面你說關於法官非依法律不得檢訪的規定你本來依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9472.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9494.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
來這個法官獨立審判你該本來就該去憲法裡面去保障他這個部分法官除了有懲戒事由你才可以去按照這個憲法第170條的規定你法律上跟他檢訪否則各個憲法機關你要用任何的理由像我們立法院你要去把他砍掉那不可能的事那這個到底對還是不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9498.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9502.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我也不知道。但是那個是價值判斷。憲法就放在那個地方。20年前立法院要去報復大法官。我們去用塞一個粹配。我們現在法律就用預算案你再去把它預算給它做一個簡略。 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9519.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9521.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我必須要跟你講的就是說其實我講這個是在從你的那個第八案跟第九案第十案一併跟你講的因為我剛好在看到我剛上 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9540.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9542.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
但是特別為這個部分,大家如果有意見的話,那就統一啦,就保留啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9561.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9589.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好,那麼莊委員有提提保留,那機關代表要示範說明在此之前還主席真的我們委員會同意的是不是這樣子,因為剛剛第7案雖然是說並同前面幾案保留送運會現場但是機關代表表示說林委員的提案提書面報告經同意後使得動之的凍結案他們可以接受那是否委員會同意剛剛第7案就依照這個方式來進行,請問委員會同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9591.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9616.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
可以吼。那我們第一期案呢重新做宣告。第一期案呢我們就依這個提案的內容吼。那改為提書面報告經同意後使得動之。那動結數是32萬。好謝謝。那第9案的部分那剛剛已經有委員表達詢問了。那機關代表。好委員有提出要進保留。那請機關代表進行說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9620.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9633.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我們是贊成保留但是這個特別費還是要說明稍微說明一下就是依這個各級政府機關特別費支用規定特別費是用在什麼是同人有婚喪喜慶的時候給的這個禮金電椅 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9635.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9654.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9654.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9654.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好,換委員繼續詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9675.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9700.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
因為現在這個法官過勞的事件這麼多我其實我也沒有真的看就是這樣好了可能請這個司法院提出你們這4年來這個首長使用特別費支出的項目在哪些項目到底有哪些是真的是給基層的法官同仁婚喪喜慶的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9705.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9710.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這樣的一個這個未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9715.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9735.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
好 那麼翁委員我就您的意思來做一個整理您的意思說想要知道過去司法院該特別會的資用的情況那如果說你要知道這個資用的情況純粹只是知道你並沒有要檢列或凍結的話那這個案子是可以以阻絕的方式要求他們提出書面就過去幾年內的資用狀況予以說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9736.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9750.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
您看這是不是您的意思?就是說因為他剛剛基本代表是希望不要剪裂不要凍結那您好像也可以接受但是你要是要了解過去的滋用情況那是不是這樣的話就符合剛剛我說的那個主決意的方式您覺得勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9751.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9768.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
是這樣的,因為我不確定到底他們把特別費使用到什麼地方,所以這個專案報告一定是要的。當然就是要看他們回復的狀況,然後才能夠決定到底要不要剪裂或是凍結,所以我建議這個部分仍然是維持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9769.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9791.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
您仍然覺得要檢列跟凍結並行,那把那個書面報告列為是檢列的特別條件,就是書面報告經同意後才能解除解凍嘛,對不對?解凍啦,凍結的這個解凍。來,好像那個吳委員要表示意見。報告主席,是在第9案是嗎?那剛剛不是說保留了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9793.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9819.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
就是保留嘛,因為好像也就保留當然委員要求提供一些資料你們就來提供只是好像從來沒有針對因為我看這裡寫的是專案報告針對一個憲法機關的首長的特別費要進行一個立法院的專案報告這點我當然覺得很不適宜啊你說書面報告提供資料這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9820.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9850.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
可以接受委員的監督。針對我們立法院沒有比較大啦。大家都是平等相為的啦。憲法機關互相尊重。那如果這樣我們也沒有要求韓國瑜院長的特別費的使用要做一個專案報告。我覺得大家彼此尊重啦。所以這個如果說委員還是要求要專案報告那我當然沒有辦法接受就保留。好,那麼我們政協委員會是否我們第9案就保留送院會協商? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9851.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9872.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
同意。接下來跟委員會說明我們第10案、第11案一直到第16案。這裡分別都是就司法行政業務。其中第12案已經撤案。第14、15、16改為主決議。是否這些提案就剩下第10? |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9876.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9885.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
11及13那提案委員呢都是由黃國昌委員的提案那請教羅委員是列書委員幫他做說明請羅委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9888.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9916.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
第10案就是有鑒於司法院國家預算應遵截所以辦理司法行政業務高達3億7千多萬為業務費為了避免浪費公帑所以建議是減列5000萬元這第10案第11案就是說我國的稅務救濟制度長年一直受到批評那行政院過度偏袒稅捐機關所以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9917.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9942.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
民眾很難獲得公平的裁決那這對人民的侵害就相當嚴重所以司法院在第11屆第二會期有函請本院審議稅務行政事件審理法草案那草案以專法的形式變更稅務行政輸送制度設置稅務審查官那等等那影響層面都非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9943.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9962.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
但是在今年的8月12日辦的公聽會參加公聽會的73名代表只有5名的民間代表那司法院也沒有上網公開直播跟會議記錄只是會後發出新聞稿變成是一種過水政策宣導那甚至也拒絕提供本 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9963.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9986.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
委員該草案研究制定委員會的討論記錄,使得外界無法得知研修過程,所以希望司法院能夠檢討改進,所以檢列該預算2000萬元並凍結20%,那等司法院三個月內向立法院司法法制委員會提出專案報告同意後再實的凍結,這是第11案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9987.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10013.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
第13案有鑒於2017一七年司法國司會已經作成決議要進行制度的檢討改進以改善法官在內的司法人員具體工作條件但近年來司法人員過勞情形屢見不鮮引發法官協會的白花運動司法院責無旁貸希望能夠延宜改進措施所以凍結預算10% |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10016.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10023.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
希望司法院在3個月內向立法院司法法制委員會提出專案報告並經同意後時得通知。以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10036.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10056.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我綜合來針對10、11還有13案綱是聯署委員羅志強委員替提案委員黃國昌委員做的論述那第10案我想在要大砍5000萬但是內容實在只為了要蹲劫兩個字我覺得這個內容實在是太空泛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10057.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10067.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你要大砍人家預算之前這理由也要寫得合理正當那這麼習字如今只為了要尊潔然後就要大砍三億多要大砍五千萬我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10070.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10076.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我很想探知提案委員進一步的這個提案理由是什麼他認為3減5000萬而不是500萬他這個合理性這比例原則在哪裡那第10案的部分那當然11案有多了一些這個比較具體的說明對於這個稅務救濟制度那我們尊重提案委員他對於提案的這個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10094.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10100.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
但是一樣這一筆裡頭4億多要大砍2000萬還要凍結20%那這事足以會造成提案委員要求我們對於稅務行政事件審理的整個精進你反而把預算砍了那他怎麼去改善怎麼去改進呢那第13案也是一樣對於這個司法人員的過勞跟減壓事實上我自己在我的質詢裡頭我也提出了五大方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10124.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10143.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那我也知道說這有困難但我覺得就是逐步做但是一個關鍵的是要去修這個中央政府機關總原額法其實反而是立法院應當扮演角色我們應當從根本解決我自己平常心講我提出了五大司法人員減壓的方法裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10145.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10171.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
比如說這個減少訴訟的一些行政程序然後我們如何把這個金字塔的這個訴訟的這個制度把它做很好的改善這些很多都是比較治標的治本就是要添補原額而添補原額就是要修政府機關基準法是立法院要幫助司法院一把的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10172.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10191.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那怎麼立法院我們應當扮演這個角色我們沒有積極在做反而要砍司法院的預算那砍了不就是更又造成司法人員過勞跟壓力嗎對不對預算沒了那他們怎麼去做事有的可以委外的有些可以去來做對於司法人員的其他補貼的預算都沒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10193.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10222.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以總回來這三案我真的是要很很切的來說明一下台灣整體的司法預算占中央政府總預算只有一趴人均享有的司法的服務的費用只有1164元我們遠低於歐美進步國家以歐盟來講我們低於歐盟的中位數的一半都不到所以國家對於司法預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10224.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10246.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們應當立法院要做的是想辦法去司法來增加司法預算或者是其他司法資源的投入他包括預算跟人事所以我真的非常不樂見在台灣的司法投資相對不足的狀況之下委員們針對一筆司法行政3億要大砍5000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10249.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10275.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
然後提案內容只有為了尊潔兩個字這是非常不負責任的提案方式啊這不是司法報復嗎這不是對於就你們還沒審預算之前就先揚言我要報復司法院的預算啊我就看到這個提案啊第十案只為了國家預算尊潔尊潔兩個字可以不用寫其他的內容就要砍人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10276.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10290.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
一﹑六分之一從來沒有這樣子粗糙的嘛然後我剛剛也說了國家的司法預算只有政府總預算的一趴不到我們遠低於其他進步國家我們還要這樣來砍預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10292.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10307.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我也要來分享司法預算的獨立這個是憲法所賦予的憲法徵修條文的第5條講到司法預算的獨立連司法院把預算送到行政院他只能夠加注意見不能做刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10309.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10330.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這就是我們的憲法基於五權分立對於司法預算的獨立他在憲法增修條文的第五條也好或者是預算法第93條都再次的去確認司法預算的獨立當然立法院可以審查可是如果是過當的不明就理的執行政治報復的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10332.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10347.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
隨便一砍就兩千三千我在立法院這麼多年欸我跟大家分享一下過去近三年司法預算的審查結果在委員會的凍結數total 1296萬平均在委員會的減劣數只有70萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10356.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10379.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這是大家立法院基於平等相為權利分立原則對於司法預算的獨立給予的尊重也是透過審查去做出這樣的決議當然在院會因為各部會統山的狀況那在刪減數有增加到1億左右那個是統山所以我再次提醒真的不要開這種惡例 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10381.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10404.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
你真的要刪預算我不曉得黃國昌第10案羅委員你替他說明你不覺得你替他說明也很心虛嗎?第10案啊11案、13案他多多少少有擠出一些具體他認為哪裡要改進好,凍結也許可以可是第10案您剛在聽他說明的時候我國的辦理司法行政業務3億7千多萬應尊潔然後就要砍5千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10410.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10435.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
對,如果我們過去在臺北市議會審預算也沒有這樣嘛我們要審議各局處也要提更具體的所以我再次認為這三筆都應當協助司法院把委員關心的事情司法人員的減壓、司法行政的優化乃至於這個稅務審理的精進它都需要預算跟人力我們要做的是支持預算而不是不明就理的砍預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10438.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10464.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好謝謝吳士堯委員先跟委員說明現在剛剛那個莊委員提議的咖啡已經送到各位桌前請大家依序享用希望我們溫暖提神然後還和解那麼我先跟委員報告一下那麼剛剛10案11案及13案請大家看手頭上的提案本有一個地方要更正提案本第11案它的預算書頁次是37頁不是44頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10466.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10493.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那如果請大家看到預算書的第37頁為什麼它的表達會說這個11案它是在辦理司法行政業務向下一共4億1907萬2000元那這個項目包含哪些呢應該不只包含稅務行政事件審理法草案當中包括公聽會它一共如列了一共有54個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10496.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10516.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
從37月、38月、39月到40月所以這個4億1907萬2000元的這個科目呢是包含了54個工作事項那因為這第11案呢他提的是主於所謂的這個稅審法的公聽會的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10516.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10541.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那麼他就通案進行提議進行檢列兩千萬凍結百分之二十那是否我們請機關代表就這三個提案的部分進行說明王副秘書長說明是什麼是針對他內容說的還是說內容說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10544.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10567.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
市長代表在演議之前那個羅委員要發言請因為剛剛吳世耀委員有一些意見那這個主題案雖然不在但是我還是要代表他代替他來回應一下首先我們來看第10案實際上剛剛這個吳世耀委員的隱居的憲法徵修條文那我不知道是我聽錯還是吳世耀委員的理解有誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10568.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10595.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
第五條的第六項他講的是司法院所提出是年度司法概算行政院不得刪減但得家族意見編入中央政府總預算案送立法院審議所以確實行政院是不可以刪減但是立法院本來就做預算審議機關在憲政上的話那實際上司法院預算那今天我們才會有所謂審議算這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10596.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10615.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
至於所謂的刪除這個五千萬到底是不是合理這件事情我覺得是榮獲討論但是我想這個環環產委員會提這個部分也是有一點免利的性質為什麼呢大家可以看到我們前面有講過近來國民對於司法普遍不信任也不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10616.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10644.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那像今年8月台灣司法公正度14議題調查有84.2%的民眾是不了解2016年到現在為止就政府所推動的司法改革內容那有49.2%的民眾不相信司法會做成公正判決所以因此針對這一次我們的那個司法院的那個預算當中包括司法行政業務的部分的話我想這個刪減的部分當然我們現在只是在司法法制委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10645.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10667.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那將來到這個協商也好或到院會也好大家覺得說到底五千萬合不合宜還是有討論的空間但是我覺得基本上對預算的刪除除了說這個提案委員認為的就是有尊潔國家預算現在實際上大家也知我們民進黨政府很窮錢不夠所以我們也很努力幫大家找錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10668.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10668.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
第11案 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10684.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10700.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
為什麼國常委員會有這樣的一個想法我們事實上從2017年納稅者權力保護法上路之後我們發現人民真的有得到更公平的裁決我們從勝數率來看就說事實上20182019大約是6%左右勝數率20177%左右2021是8%左右2022是4%左右2023是7%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10710.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10724.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以換言之2017年是百分之六左右啦所以換言之人民的勝訴率是不是有這個納稅者權力保護法上路之後有獲得更公平的裁決這一點其實是有點疑問的那更重要的是說為什麼今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10725.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10752.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
國參委員他要提出說今天對於這一部分預算做出2000萬的一個簡列那其實第一個就是說你也發現我們司法院為因應相關的東西希望我們提出稅務行政事件審理法的草案那舉辦公聽會的部分這跟納稅的權益這麼攸關的事情我覺得司法院是不是在處理的態度上跟處理的做法上可能也要再注意一下包括研究計畫為什麼沒有公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10755.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10773.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
公聽會的代表就非常不平衡行政法院代表13人財政部代表20人六都稅券代表13人各縣市稅務局代表22人結果民間團體跟公會只有5個人所以這樣的公聽會的一個所謂的成員的組成其實我覺得是相當不平衡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10778.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10804.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那更何況後面審議會的討論記錄啊那不公開然後也沒有進行比較合宜的所謂的這個透明的一個直播或是相關透明的揭露那這些部分我想就今天黃國昌委員第11案希望說能夠透過這個預算的這個簡略那麼也給我們行政機關一點鼓勵啦就希望說在相關的事情上你們能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10805.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10819.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
給大家感受到你們願意更透明更願意接受問責也更願意為納稅人的這個橫評來去著眼那這個預算的一個提案我想可能希望我們司法院以及在座委員可以參考那 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10820.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10829.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
第三個十三案十三案的部分我就要特別說明一下十三案我覺得就很純粹因為只有凍結10%所以實際上它並不是一個簡略的預算所以這種情況之下就是針對我們現在司法院過勞的情況我覺得通常我們凍結預算並不是在反對這個預算凍結這個預算某種程度是督促我們今天司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10845.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10874.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
對於司法人員過勞的情形真的要再加把勁努力讓我們立法院能夠更進一步的了解然後提出相關的不管是書面報告或專案報告讓我們知道實際上我們立法院真的很努力在做解除司法人員的過勞部分所以第13案它其實是凍結10%以程度來講10%的程度也不算我覺得說太為難司法院所以以上這三個案子我是建議說是不是就請主席就保留吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10876.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10886.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
需不需要機關代表說明?機關代表有要說明?我們現在要保留?好,那那個委員要求說? |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10887.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10908.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
好第二次發言那等一下要保留就保留我是沒有聽過說檢列預算是為了給公務部門鼓勵所以是檢列預算我聽不懂這個邏輯第二個呢羅委員說現在不是中央一直在喊沒錢嗎才化法修了沒錢剛好砍錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10910.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10934.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這是什麼邏輯?你砍司法院的預算這錢又不能挪去做TPAS的補助也不能把砍掉司法院的錢挪去做這個以後租金補貼沒了被國民黨才化法這樣搞了也不可能這樣挪的嘛所以這邏輯也不通那講到數字跟提案的部分我還是就是就數字來做清楚的來大家分析一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10935.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10941.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這一個司法行政向下總共編列的預算書是4億1900萬就換言之就4.2億那三個案呢第一案要減5000萬然後第11跟13分別動20%跟動10%加起來是動30%就是動掉1億2了 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10958.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10969.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
然後這邊砍5000然後11案再砍2000就砍7000所以呢整個司法院的行政加凍結加砍掉的話會只剩下兩億三 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10971.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10997.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
只剩下2億3在司法行政可以用那剛剛那個羅志強委員您真的辛苦了因為你要替黃國昌講你要替他圓實在是蠻辛苦的剛剛就以你的第11案來講我也非常關心稅務行政事件審理法可是您剛剛黃國昌說的要求偶要增加開公聽會然後公聽會呢這個更要擴大公開透明這些需要人力物力還要再舉辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10999.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11011.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那鼓勵他舉辦就是要給他預算讓他辦啊結果呢你要他做一堆事情然後又砍了他的預算4.2億砍掉剩下2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11014.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11040.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
三,然後再動,啊對不起,砍七千萬,然後再動一億二,就等於剩下兩千三,兩億三他怎麼做事。所以,剛好就好了啦。我是覺得這個有點下手太重,而且不合理,我覺得重點就是在不合理。那沒關係,尊重這個提案委員,我們,因為羅志強委員今天真的很辛苦啊,替不在場的黃國昌說明他的提案,那就保留吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11042.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11044.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好,那麼要繼續補充,來羅委員請,辛苦了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11048.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11075.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
當然還是非常謝謝這個吳世耀委員的指教啦但是我要特別講一件事就是說基本上國家財政就是一個大的餅嘛那所以換言之預算如果能夠尊潔當然是國家這個餅那就是可以就有更多充裕的一個資源使用所以到這個對於我們吳世耀委員那個意見我是有點保留啦所以預算的尊潔這件事是通案的啦也不是只有司法院大家請請請慢慢好 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11077.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11106.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
第二,本來在政府部門的績效管理上,確實有兩個思路。剛剛吳世耀委員說,做不好要趕快把做不好的做好,所以我需要更多錢。這是一個思路。所以公聽會辦得哩哩啦啦,那黃國昌委員有意見,他就說我要減煉瑜。他說沒有,你這樣不對,辦不好要辦更多,辦更好,所以他需要更多錢。但是有另外一個從績效管理的角度來說,那這樣不是鼓勵他辦不好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11107.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11126.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
愈辦愈爛錢愈來愈多像我之前在這個質詢這個陸委會是我也在講嘛陸委會都自己承認海基會的辦的業務愈來愈成果一直在倒退但他預算竟然捐助要增加40%那我就說一般的我們講一般的民間部門如果這個機關的單位的那個績效太差 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11127.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11144.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
一般就是說那我就是為了要對你要做一些所謂的督促嘛包括說你的預算簡列所以我倒覺得說預算簡列的方式其實也是一種督促好也是一種督促但是我不敢講說一定是吳士堯委員對還是我的方法是對的或是黃國昌方法是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11144.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11167.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
但是這兩個思維同時存在那就讓這個民眾來去判斷那當然我也必須跟司法院的講一下就是說那你們在預算溝通部分可能再跟黃國昌委員再多做溝通然後因為反正如果假設待會是保留的話還會進到協商嘛所以有些東西你們到底要怎麼樣展現說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11168.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11181.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
過去黃國昌委員覺得你們沒有做好的部分我們司法院就是可以透過檢列以外的方式能夠做得好那就是這個司法院的說服的工作所以以上大概是我的一個補充 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11183.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11183.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
議員們的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11204.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11221.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那些相關的支印他有的是屬於一次性的比如說招標採購有的是屬於逐月支出的那如果是屬於逐月支出的凍結額度如果佔比例較低那也是說前面的時間逐月支出的還可支印 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11222.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11240.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
如果是屬於一次性支出的,那凍結的部分會整體的影響到無法做照表採購的指引。那提醒機關代表,後續如果遇到凍結案,建請你們說明的時候,要將這個部分分別做詳細的做說明。好,那本案我們就保留送學商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11242.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11254.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
好那麼接下來呢第14、15、16剛剛已經宣布了已經是改組決議第17案是羅遠的提案那麼您這裡好像有些調整是不是要做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11255.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11259.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
其他委員對於本案您說是檢列改為檢列50不再凍結那這個項目可以參閱我們第17案預算書頁這是39頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11281.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11298.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那他的原預算的編列是450.450萬那請問其他委員有沒有要表示意見在預算書的第39頁的第38項辦理院外聯繫考察及新聞聯繫這個剛剛不是有類似的預算在討論嗎?那個因為我們剛剛有一個關於新聞聯繫的部分前面是做保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11316.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11340.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那麼他是在38、39因為剛剛做保留的是39項這裡面呢是一個是司法政策對外溝通宣傳語情收集那麼這目前我們這七案是就這個院外聯繫考察及新聞聯繫那麼那請機關代表明確的表達你們的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11345.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11360.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那是38的好,所以這個38的你們是怎麼樣接受檢列50萬好,那基本代表已經明確說明同意檢列50萬那我們本案我們就同意檢列50萬科目執行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11365.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11391.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
18案已經撤案那19、20、21、22剛剛也都是保留送國外旅費保留送院會協商23案是改組決議那麼24案的部分我們進行到24案那麼24案跟27案我把後面的因為都是後面的電腦資訊部分那提案的委員到29案 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11396.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11420.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
二十四案到二十七案,我們就並同來處理。那二十四案到二十七案目前有二十七案改為主決議,是羅委員的,確認吧。二十五、二十四、二十五、二十六分別是羅委員還有林委員跟謝委員,但是先請羅委員做說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11424.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11425.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
二、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會提出書面報告,使得動之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11450.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11475.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們先處理二十四案。二十四案改為不檢列但改動結兩千萬,兩個月內提出面報告後使得動之。好,我們委員會所確認。好,那麼確認的話,那我們第25案是林委員的部分,那邊因為有翁委員跟羅委員在場。請問。二十五案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11480.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11485.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那麼目前的修正是改動100萬提書面報告史的動肢是因為他剛剛的意見好像跟那個委員的是一樣的好那麼那個請問代表我們第25案動100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11498.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11523.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
不檢列動100萬提出面報告後使得動之確認喔好那我們就確認接下來是第26案那麼26案提案委員目前是有羅委員在場那麼是不是羅委員這裡我看到的是寫動700萬提出面報告使得動之請問羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11525.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11543.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
應該也是司法院及協議委員一起講的嘛。好。那麼我們第26案就動700萬提書面報告後,二、兩個月內提書面報告時的動之。好。那27案已經報告過了,改為主決議。好。那我們第一幕的部分,我們做個整理來跟委員會做報告。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11550.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11560.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那麼第一幕一般行政提案案號第二案至27案其中第5、12、18測案第8、14、15、16、23、27改為主決議第二至4案、第6案、第9至11案、13案還有19案保留送協商然後19、20、21、22也是保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11579.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11600.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
接下來第一幕一般行政向下業務會委辦會之凍結三十二萬四提書面報告經同意後使得凍之第一幕一般行政向下辦理電腦資訊作業凍結兩千八百萬提出書面報告後使得凍之然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11603.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11624.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
檢列50萬本目檢列50萬科目自行調整接下來我們處理第三目審判行政提案案號第28案至第36案請看28案那28案的部分呢因為這邊已經看到委員簽名吳委員同意改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11626.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11651.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那麼第29案提案委員吳委員簽名同意改為主決議那麼第30案提案委員有包括陳俊宇委員林淑溫委員這裡面有文字修改改為書面報告他是凍結20萬改書面報告後提出時的凍支請問委員會是否接受那如果沒有問題我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11653.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11671.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
他要回來嗎?好,那我們因為有幾個案子我們先處理32案委員同意嗎?好,那我們先處理32案32案是由黃委員提出那麼羅委員在場那這裡是要檢列1000萬棟30%請田安委員做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11676.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11702.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
事實上介於法院辦理強制處分的審核成效不彰甚至有一些違反相關規定導致縱放特定權貴我們希望這樣的一個提案能夠讓司法院來督促檢討改進所以檢列一千萬凍結百分之三十這是我們這個提案的說明事實上我剛剛講了我就直接講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11702.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11719.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
之前那個臺南地議院陳起玉這個我們在這個要求羈押被那個裁定駁回那引發所謂的臺南院檢失核等等的重大的爭議那這個在臺南的那個地方法院經常出現這種類似的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11721.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11747.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那所以這個部分的話對於說今天重大犯罪到底我們今天有關於強制處分的審核的部分我們司法院是不是應該有一些怎麼樣去督促或怎麼樣去了解他的審核的成效那不然對於國人來說的話其實是非常妨礙國人對司法的信心那同時也可能助長今天權貴犯罪的這樣一個問題以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11751.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11751.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
總委員表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11775.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11798.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
並凍結30%檢列1000萬例差不多25%了這個是覺得比較不妥的原因我可以瞭解你的感受你說臺南的院檢怎麼樣這是呈現出來這是一個現象但問題就是說在司法審判實務裡面你是要求說司法院要去督促法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11799.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11814.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這個是我倒認為這是非常不妥很困難我們一下子要求他審判獨立我們又用預算來卡司法院說司法院你來叫法官你來怎麼看因為民粹因為社會上嘩然因為怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11815.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11833.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
很困難我常常看到很多裁定或者判決社會法案的一些案件可是你去把它細讀除了那個法官非常混否則你看他在說理的過程裡面邏輯的脈絡他非常嚴謹可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11834.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11847.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
偶爾會有一些案件啊,會導出那個結論非常荒謬。會。我不否認會有這種狀況。可是呢,辦理法案再辦理強制處分,我們去講說它這個成效不彰。沒辦法量化。沒有一個標準。 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11853.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11864.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我們一直在講說法官不予就法官就你就把你的見解放在你的判決書裏面就好那我們現在又有一個就是說立法院這邊要求說你要成效要漲這要怎麼看你說這個就要計啊打到你馬英九的時候你一定跳起來打到柯文哲的時候民眾黨一定跳開當然在國安阿扁我也跳開那同樣的事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11883.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11895.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
啊所以說這個是我們個人的個人的期待會有不同但是法官的部分是不是我們也在給他一個獨立的空間啊怎麼判判下去喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11896.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11916.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這個人如果是指標性人物的話各有支持者這個就是我們在這一次的法律在我們在修這個限訴法你們一直在強調說大法官沒有民意基礎我一直跟你們講說大法官不能去看民意基礎哪怕總統是有台灣最高的民意基礎憲法法庭都可以去彈劾他 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11918.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11935.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那個不是在講民意基礎,因為你說強制處分的案件我可以瞭解你的感受,但是其實不要用說因為他的成效不彰,沒有那種成效不彰,你如果給予人權的保障該放人的你硬要去壓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11937.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11964.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這也好像也不對所以我是覺得司法院的部分罵歸罵啦,罵完就好了啦該給他們支持還是要給他們支持啦我這樣的說理我希望那個羅遠可以接受啦因為我們確實在立法院我們應該好好去要求因為名字名高嘛我們本來這個預算裡面本來就是我們國會要去審可是呢這麼脆弱的一個司法機關我們要他好的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11966.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11974.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
稍微拿捏一下啦,不要給他剪裂啦,應該是給他們多一點鼓勵,然後多出他們啦。以上,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11976.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11994.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
好 謝謝我跟委員會做個說明目前本幕第三幕審判行政的部分分別有兩個檢列案其他的是凍結案凍結案的部分我們待會會整幕處理檢列案的部分剛剛32案是檢列一千萬另外33案已經改為檢列兩百萬一般來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12001.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12020.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
三十二或三十三我們待會在處理的時候會一併討論那因為剛剛羅委員針對三十二案有表示意見那我們就請你羅委員表示意見來請我覺得各有其理啦那我的建議就是說要不要就保留好然後到協商裡面那到時候再看大家怎麼針對這問題再做更細部的討論以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12023.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12038.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
好那麼各位會員報告我們現在處理的是32案那接下來會處理33案另外呢有30案31案跟34案分別是凍結案那我們待會會一併處理提案委員稍後那我們先處理33案那33案是謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12042.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12059.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
提案,他們他簽名是說改為簡列兩百萬,那委員會這邊是建議說,是不是跟委員建議齁,這個兩百案就並同三十二案的簡列案啦,並同處理。齁,那因為三十二案是保留送院會協商嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12060.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12089.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那麼要不要司法院及法院代表說明一下就我知道你們是同意檢列兩百萬但是兩百萬呢我們的處理方式上會回到第32案在因為只有兩個檢列案那會在第四幕的時候是第四幕的院會協商檢列的原則好那如果你們同意了那未來本幕的檢列案至少是兩百萬因為你們同意嘛所以至少是33案的檢列案是至少是兩百萬但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12090.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12101.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
如果三十二案的檢列金朝野協商超過兩百萬那就依其數額來決定那這個部分請機關代表再三思案因為有吳市長委員要發言我們請吳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12105.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12119.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我很難得省司法院預算我要有計算機在旁邊因為實在砍得很重的才4200萬的預算Total要減掉1000加200減掉1200萬你就剩下你就剩下3000萬然後還要再凍結30%就是再凍1200多萬所以你整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12129.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12135.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
有關於這一個辦理刑事審判你只剩下1700萬可以用欸你只剩下1700萬國家對於刑事審判尤其我們打炸司法一堆案件天啊剩下1700萬所以秘書長這邊有可能你在其中一案同意減200欸你要用總體來看啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12159.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12183.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
所以我是覺得萬萬不可啊我從來沒有看到司法院的預算是砍成這樣動成這樣我從來沒有看過這不是報復是什麼這不是鬥臭司法院是什麼當然這要協商保留但是我每一幕我都會做這樣子的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12184.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12211.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
不要只看單案單案,砍個一兩百,不要緊你擦起來你整幕剩下1700萬可以用欸開什麼玩笑?立委要這樣惡搞嗎?珍貴的司法資源我剛剛已經講了我國的司法預算只有總預算的一趴遠低於世界進步國家的二分之一都不到請大家三思 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12214.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12238.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好那在這一半我回應之前剛好本席有一個提案是在36案因為都在第三幕當中那因為那個文字上那麼因為我有跟范委員這邊跟委員會說明36案的文字部分這是凍結案的部分因為本來是寫提專案報告並經同意後那本席同意改為提書面報告後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12238.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12260.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那請機關代表注意,凍結案有的是跟本席的提案一樣是提書面報告後,使得凍支。有的是寫提書面報告經同意後,使得凍支。有的是提專案報告後,使得凍支。這三點在預算審議的凍結上的效力是不太一樣的,解凍條件是不一樣的。請審酌。那現在請機關代表綜合剛剛的簡列案,3233進行說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12269.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12291.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12293.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12313.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好,那麼所以我們確認第三十三案並三十二案保留送院會協商一個是檢列一千一個是檢列兩百那其他的凍結部分是不是他們都已經不列入了嗎?他們都是只有凍結數嘛我再確認一次三十二案檢列一千萬沒有凍結數 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12315.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12333.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
送院會草野協商,32案他只有檢列200萬並沒有凍結數,同樣是並32案送院會協商。謝謝。接下來我們處理的是第30案、第31案、第34案。那麼分別提案委員都有包含的林淑芬委員,請林委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12334.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12360.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
三十案是這樣子的因為我其實不想說可是因為我們當時司法院就有很多為改革而改革比如說像商事法院像是少事法院那以少事法院來講的話其實是為成立而成立我們應該讓民眾使用司法制度的這個可敬性要提高那在現在每一個法庭裡面都有這個少事法庭每個法院都有少事庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12361.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12379.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
可是你現在為了成立一個少數法院然後要幾個縣市公用其實讓他的可敬性會降低同樣的我們講商事法院也是同樣為了成立而成立結果本來設兩個現在還才成一個才成變成只有一個庭而這個庭永遠都是這三個法官在審理全國的商業事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12380.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12398.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那這種東西其實大家都知道重大的這個商業事件到這裡來就這三個所以我們想這是不是另外一種形式的壟斷那是不是這三個法官擺平了就可以其實大家都有一個疑慮那當時就是為了設立而設立所以其實在實務面很多人其實覺得說這樣的東西應該有待檢討到底是要存還是廢但我也不是說存或廢的這個意見我們希望你們說已經到了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12407.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12433.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
司法院應該要對現行的制度要做一個體檢到底這樣設立下去這樣號稱的改革真的是對的方向真的是實務面是最好的嗎所以我們已經達成這個共識他們同意凍結書面只有20萬而已然後專案報告我們也同意改成書面報告但你提出來的這個制度面的檢討要送到立法院來以後我們希望經同意後時的凍支他們同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12435.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12459.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
請問林委員因為是有三個案你都一併說明完畢了我一併說明好了那第31案就是我一再講的這個民事交通事件交通事件都改成民事檢議庭去審理檢議庭一次審理為原則那而且不管你及時及商那個事實的鑑定能不能直接在一次審理的時候就結束第一個第二個對於文化資本經濟資本 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12460.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12461.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
司法院函送財團法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12483.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12496.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
司法院會講說那他可以申請改為通常審理不一定會檢疫審理可是通常審理的這個決定權是在法官可是這個法官檢疫庭的法官如果他自己改成通常審理檢疫庭的法官自己要負責通常審理的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12498.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12512.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
等於說就人性上檢議庭的法官要搬石頭砸自己的腳然後所以這個東西對檢議庭的法官來講是不堪負荷的所以我們也接到很多的檢議庭的家長法官的家長打電話來說這個問題從來沒有被討論因為他們的兒子在檢議庭裡面一個月要審100多件然後沒有放假他看了這個家長都覺得說法官怎麼會當成這個樣子所以我們認為說你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12525.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12549.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
當初硬要修法把所有的交通事件的民事訴訟都改成檢疫審理這樣子改得太簡單了我們至少你是不是能夠應該要分級你有死重傷的重大傷殘的有死亡的案件的或人數是達到一個什麼樣案件其實不應該一律改成檢疫審理所以這個事情真的是需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12551.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12578.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
檢討這制度面本身運作起來就已經出問題了他沒有辦法確保當事人的權益而且有階級的不公平性所以我們希望他要提出檢討那所以當我們同意預算凍結數下降將這個凍結數改成百分之八那他們要提書面來但是要經同意後使得動之我都談的是制度面實務面大家認為不行的這個對當事人的權益這個而受到很大的侵害的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12580.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12589.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
三十四案就是現在最糟糕的因為每個人都進行司法程序在審理當中我們剛剛講到進行程序當中已經在審議的就算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12594.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12598.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
因為這個案件是因為醫療糾紛醫療糾紛的訴訟醫糾的訴訟首先要先醫療鑑定可是現在所有的訴訟第一關醫療鑑定通通都沒有辦法進行因為這個訴訟的程序卡在我們也是修了一個刑事訴訟法刑事訴訟法修法要求醫療糾紛的鑑定 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12619.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12639.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
都必須以自然人的狀態去署名那那這種狀況所有的醫生醫神會的醫生都聚神那本來法律還規定說你個別醫生也可以鑑定啊醫學院也可以鑑定啊醫院也可以鑑定醫學會也可以鑑定但是通通沒有人要受理鑑定而且大家都仰賴醫神會醫神會也拒絕鑑定所有的醫療糾紛數百件而且到現在幾個月數百件未來如果不解決的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12647.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12667.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
你會讓醫療糾紛的訴訟沒有辦法人民沒有辦法救濟停擺一年兩年三年四年下去這個最爽的是誰第一個法院的法官因為法院的法官沒有案件可以審理因為他沒有鑑定檢察官沒有辦法起訴沒有辦法到法院所以法院的法官很輕鬆司法院也很輕鬆不用審醫療糾紛的刑事訴訟案件然後再來醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12671.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12692.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
醫生沒有人願意審議沒有人願意做醫療糾紛的鑑定所以醫生被告的醫生也很爽因為你的案件沒有辦法審議所以就停擺在那裡我本來以為是社會的精英兩大勢力法界跟醫界自然主的第一名跟社會主的第一名在那裡鬥法 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12692.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12712.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
後來想一想不對他們兩個是獲得最佳利益的醫生被告的人也不會被告法院案件很多的也不用審理所以這樣停擺下去唯一的受害者叫做人民那我們已經溝通一次溝通兩次溝通三次他們都提不出任何狀況然後那個刑事廳聽他們就說這個司法院就說這是因為醫審會都是因為衛福部的問題那衛福部針對這個司法院所稱的衛福部的問題他有來跟我講本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12722.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12736.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
司法院說我們盡力去溝通了而且我們取得醫師全國聯合會的同意他們提出的解決的方案就是說具名的方式用代號代號到時候可以比對 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12737.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12761.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
他說全聯會沒有反對他們同意但是事實上全聯會以外他們11月29日開了一個形式鑑定諮詢會議邀請了台灣高等司法精神醫學會衛福部、法務部、高等法院、高檢署代表就提出他們說他們跟醫師公會獲得共識的折衷作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12763.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12784.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
司法院的講法是說獲得大家的肯認那事實上衛福部告知我們不要說獲得大家的肯認會議的現場連檢察署在最高等檢察署在會議中都認為司法院所提出的行政程序不可行然後再講就是說為什麼那個衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12785.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12790.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
認為他們所提的方案不可行還有幾個原因啦。據名拒絕的方式,法務部說你可以復券密封啊,那你出席的時候可以遠距離詢問啊,不用本人到場啊,那也可以採取適當的隔離措施啊,那兼顧法治的精神和實務所需。 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12804.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12816.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
那衛福部跟那個一一事工會聯合會他們的回應是如下第一個復券、密封、遠距詢問或其他適當隔離措施沒有辦法提高鑑定委員會參與鑑定的意願因為進入法庭的時候律師也會交叉結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12822.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12823.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12840.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12859.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
司法院提出說保障這個當一鑑定人的權益是保障在他修正刑事訴訟鑑定心智問答集連行政法規都不是還有一個法院辦理刑事訴訟案件應行注意事項至少有一個法規他用法規裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12861.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12874.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
提出了這一些保護措施,但是法官：這個衛福部他們認為,法官你是依法獨立審判,你修正問答集或是因行注意事項,這一種法規,類似司法部門的內部的行政指導的方式,你怎麼有辦法去約束和強制法官獨立審判的這個基本, |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12884.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12884.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
有有有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12913.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12926.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
他沒有辦法阻卻這個案件的關係人請人家去關說請託或者是不利於己方的鑑定案件關係人可能會對鑑定人進行騷擾或報復最後我講最後一句話因為我先做誠意宣告因為本上午會議進行至議程所列事項均處理完畢為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12935.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12945.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
謝謝委員的體諒因為剛剛委員一直在發言當中所以不便打斷但是因為實在是需要讓委員會可以知道下一步的處理謝謝委員各位的體諒另外請繼續我再講最後一點就是說在訴訟的新制裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12951.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12956.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
而衛福部和所有的醫師他們都認為說沒有妥適配到的情況下要求本部醫審會的醫事鑑定貫徹證據原則你看起來好像說確保了法院的審判權也確保了當事人的訴訟權但事實上你運作起來是讓已經陷入沒有人任何的醫生願意擔任鑑定人而無法釐清事實真相的窘境 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12974.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12983.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我講我的結論我個人的看法我不支持醫師我也不支持法官但是我們在乎的是人民的訴訟權益當事人的救濟管道要能夠進行要能夠審理醫療糾紛不能這樣子擺爛下去我不管你醫師是怎麼樣這個法院是怎麼樣但我們就是當事人權益要被確保可是你現在變成這種僵局沒有辦法解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13000.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13007.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
多少的人的權益在那裡被你們犧牲掉他連審理都沒有辦法審理如果你的家屬如果你的家人遇到了這個醫療糾紛你要去訴訟你沒有辦法審理停擺一年兩年三年我們作何感想所以今天在這裡我們與眾心長我沒有要凍結你的預算為目的我也不想要砍你的預算但是我們希望是你要告訴我們怎麼解決這個僵局這個僵局不解決我就認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13028.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13046.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
是這些法院得利被告醫師也得利只有人民受傷害大家扪心自問你們都沒有家屬嗎?你們都不用看病嗎?大家都保證不會有醫療糾紛嗎?這樣子搞下去到底要怎麼解決?你告訴我們而當初在修法的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13047.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13062.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
剛出在修法人家就語重心長衛福部也告訴你們說此案這樣修正下去會造成沒有人願意當鑑定人結果司法院立法院在這裡一意孤行強硬要闖關過去過了現在就是這副窘境你們放了火要怎麼解決你們要出來操屁股啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13069.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13070.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以這個案子我們還是認為要凍結,而且凍結的數目應該要多一點,4000多萬,我們要凍結400萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13094.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13107.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那個不要三分之一啦十分之一啦你不是三百萬還是四百萬他本來是我是凍結三分之一啦那你後來是說要趕三百萬嗎四百萬啦十分之一啦四百萬對啊因為他騙我們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13110.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13125.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
其他331我們就照當時談好的條件他只要願意做我們都沒關係但是這一個案件對人民權益侵害這麼大到底要怎麼解決主席你也才示一下叫他們趕快作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13126.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13152.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
好,那麼在委員跟基金會代表回復之前我先做一個說明首先呢剛剛在第三幕正在審查當中的第36案那麼經提案委員同意後改為主決議在這裡做一個更正的宣告那也剛剛在座會議時間的原行宣告耽誤了一杯咖啡的時間請謝謝委員會包容那接下來呢我再提醒一下剛剛的30案、31案他是在我們預算書的 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13156.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13168.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
第44頁是屬於01辦理民事審判行政,那剛剛林委員講的第33案是在預算書的第44案是在預算書的第43頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13173.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13190.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
45頁是辦理刑事審判,雖然在同一幕下,但是兩個的預算不同。那麼民事審判的總預算呢,預算書是寫了466萬9千元。那麼林委員的提案分別是檢列20萬元跟檢列 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13193.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13218.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
凍結20萬元跟凍結34萬2千元那至於說林委員的第34案在刑事審判的部分呢是編原預算編列是4214萬那麼林委員要凍結的是400萬以上說明那我看到有莊委員舉手是不是莊委員先發言我再請機關代表說回命好謝謝莊委員謝謝我想司法院確實應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13220.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13239.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
說明一下啦齁那因為023這去年的修法那今年開始施行以後啊你造成了整個你說我們本來在刑務書法第208條的規定是說你的地檢署或者法院你說主定這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13241.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13267.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
拜託這些鑑定機關來做一個鑑定完你就鑑定人簽個名本來就本來認為就是有證據可是實務上你去實行完以後那你變成你這個一審會這個地方你要他你要他你主託委託他鑑定的他不鑑定他把你退回來那確實跟當初修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13269.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13296.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
會認為說一個制度讓民眾的一個輸送權的一個設計或是感受到比較溫暖那變成說都已經就變成這個制度實現的結果跟我們當初設計的一個目的就落差太大司法院這個地方是不是看要如何改觀因為司法院應該針對這個有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13299.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13315.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
聽長你們針對這個部分我記得我在司法法制委員會裡面我就聽到好幾位委員這樣的提過這相同的一個問題那你們是不是把你們有研議的初步的讓委員會這邊來做一個說明好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13317.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13338.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 那麼待會兒機關代表說明的時候 因為我們都是凍結案 然後請注意 那麼林委員的提案 他是分別在民事審判向下分別凍結20萬及34萬2000提書面報告經同意後時的凍支 那另外在刑事審判的部分林委員是要求凍結400萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13340.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13354.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
提書面報告經同意後使得動之。後面還有35萬還沒進行。因為那是邵家審判的部分。我們先就這民事、刑事的部分請機關代表說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13359.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13383.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
主席,各位委員,謝謝委員的承詢。我可能要先跟委員說明一下,我們並沒有跟委員說有說謊的情形。貴府部當時在12月29日那一天的開會,他們的確有表達沒有完全同意的立場。至於高檢署或是法務部檢察司派的代表, |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13385.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13397.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
的確有肯認我們這樣的做法就是說用蜜蜂或是姓名對照表的方式來保障那個所謂鑑定人的個人資料的方式來進行那208條這個機關鑑定的部分當時的設計是為了國事會議的結論那希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13404.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13418.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
被告在接受鑑定的時候可以對鑑定人做一定的結論來辨明他的鑑定能力或是證明力這個部分那我們依循這個國事會議的結論來做刑事訴訟208條的修法因為之前很多的冤案或是比較不適當的案件的判決結果民眾為什麼沒辦法接受是因為說在鑑定的時候不曉得要找誰來結論因為他做的鑑定有問題或者是有什麼疑慮的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13434.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13443.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
被告或是辯護人沒辦法去結問他因為他都不具名甚至我們法院希望傳鑑定人來做結問的時候也因為具名因為沒有具名不曉得要傳誰然後詢問一審會或是其他監禁機關他們也不願意告訴你說這到底是誰做的鑑定所以在在很多的冗長的訴訟程序中發現有這樣的問題也導致有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13458.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13462.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13478.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13487.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我們提出了草案那委員也支持我們這樣的看法那也許大家對現在實務上發生的問題覺得需要再檢討我們也做了一些相關的配套所以我剛剛如同委員所講的我們在注意事項或是包括問答集裡面或包括鑑定人的禮遇方案裡面我們又做了適當的修正我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13499.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13527.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
基於為了保障鑑定人的人身安全或是他的相關的個資所做的一些調整當然我們會跟我們的所謂的審判的法官來跟他們做宣導說明基本上鑑定的是我們的協力的是要給我們做一些審判上的協力他並不是我們的被告那當然我們要對他特別的履歷他提供一些意見給我們讓我們做一個事實上一個正確的判斷這是非常需要的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13529.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13537.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
好 謝謝那麼林委員請這樣他終於第一次說他的爭點在哪裡他為什麼當初要修法他說因為不曉得要找誰結問那麼你在現在你就應該是說找醫審會找衛福部來討論這種不曉得要找誰結問問責於誰的這一種制度要怎麼討論啊你們就這樣直接說你就叫他鑑定了醫生簽名就好了可是醫審會是何意志 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13556.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13561.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
他出見的那一個醫生的意見不一定會被醫審會肯認醫審會在醫師出審以後他是合意制所以合意的過程大家都可以修改修正甚至不認同出審醫師的意見那在這種狀況裡面我們也同意這樣的證據力到底是要問責於誰那我們就應該去找衛福部找醫審會的人家講說那到時候你們醫審會這種制度要問責於誰我們要找誰來結問 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13585.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13593.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
今天是這樣去解決只有你們就直接說管你的你就給我醫生簽名我要求你醫生簽名我把法律改下去就好了結果大家都在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13595.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13598.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
在那裡僵局,我現在不問,我不認為衛福部就完全是正確的,我也不認為衛醫審會全部都正確,但我也不認為說你們講的不正確,但是我現在都不管這一個,現在造成僵局,整個制度無法運作,然後人民的救濟管道阻塞,權力受損,那我們要怎麼解決? |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13616.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13634.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我不認為衛福部全對喔!醫審會全對喔!我不認為你們全錯喔!但是我只要你們給我一個答案怎麼解決啊!我已經講了我自己講的都已經快要半年啦!好幾個月啦!沒有一個人可以告訴我怎麼解決!那那些訴訟的當事人更是心急如焚欸! |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13638.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13648.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
你不要再講過去怎麼樣怎麼樣你為什麼我也不要講說我們醫生為什麼不我們都不想聽這個我們想聽的是怎麼解決你告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13650.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13651.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
好,那麼翁委員表示意見,請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13675.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13696.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
是我想我們今天是在審預算喔林淑芬委員提的這些問題喔其實可以在這個其他的這個日子質詢或者說是我都質詢過了我都質詢過了就直接提修法吧我都質詢過了要修法不是說我修就好了修法也要參考我修了法律他們可不可行啊我意思講說我們現在審預算就是審預算我現在提凍結案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13698.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13713.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
你現在糾結在剛才吵架的情緒裏嗎?你剛才糾結在中共代理人的情緒裏面嗎?你就是為了反對我而反對我你顧及一下訴訟當事人醫療糾紛的訴訟當事人的權益好不好?你在這裡就會認為我可以討論嗎?我就是藉由審預算在跟他們講這些解決的方法你講話就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13726.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13731.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
拜託你自己講話,別人跟我講話你認為訴求方式人的權益不重要嗎?你認為醫療糾紛的權益不重要嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13743.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13751.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
就是為了反對林淑芬嗎?反對林淑芬嗎?你還糾葛在剛才尊重委員的情緒啊?我們請尊重委員的發言喔?對,我們...那個...那個...是不是喔?司法院這個地方...那個...莊委員...現在是委員在發言啦... |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13767.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13779.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
現在是發言當中請大家喝了咖啡稍微降溫一下我們便當請開始散發是請後委員繼續請後委員繼續所以他發表了他對於這個預算的看法然後講了很多跟醫療訴訟當事人的權益的問題我都尊重他那為什麼我在發言的時候他可以不斷的這樣子打斷我的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13792.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13797.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
我們請翁委員繼續翁委員繼續發言要不要直接就那個預算的部分表示意見好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13822.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13824.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我真的認為我們司法法制委員會裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13838.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13852.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
大家都還是會談民主法治素養的對不對然後來了一個外面的委員然後來這邊干干干擾來干擾好我先說明一下目前我們在審的是刑事審判行政那麼是凍結400萬的預算提議那請換委員繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13857.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13864.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
我的意思是講說剛剛的討論其實他可能涉及到修法或是應該是要在其他的質詢的場合裡面再來進行好好的討論現在是在講那你到底要不要凍結他的預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13872.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13874.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
所以講了半天然後那個這個相關的廳長處長他們也都已經回復了那我在發言的時候為什麼可以讓林淑芳委員這樣打斷我對我認為說招委我覺得招委其實應該是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13889.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13900.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
主持主持一場的秩序不是每次這個我們國民黨委員在講的時候你看是請尊重其他委員會好不好那個委員你同意我再做個處理好不好我現在處理是這樣啦我們委員會今天的預算審議我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13906.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13932.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
主席這邊就盡量尊重委員的發言那委員的發言的部分我們也時間上的充分那我們今天是進行預算審議難免委員在進行預算審議的表達的看法是否是跟本預算的處理有相關我想我們尊重各委員的判斷那我們也希望說發言的時候委員就是針對對本預算他的處理方式表達一個具體的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13933.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13935.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那剛剛林委員的具體看法,因為剛剛行聽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13939.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13966.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
禮院理聽長已經表達了那麼林委員也表達了那目前我們所談的34案目前林委員的具體提案是凍結400萬那提書面報告後使得凍支那剛剛翁委員應該是對這樣的一個處理方式因為沒有聽到他對這個處理方式的意見那我現在要請機關代表明確的剛好提醒了因為目前該向下的預算是4214萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13968.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13970.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13991.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14018.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
一次性採購的要不受影響那你們分月執行的就會受到壓縮那這個壓縮的金額是400萬那麼請那個機關代表就這個部分委員提案要求凍結400萬的部分表示意見這個這一項目通通都是那個分次的沒有一次執行的400萬就大概就是你們到明年10月的時候就會受影響了 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14019.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14021.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
好 那你們自己衡量啊那不然我先問一下那民事的部分剛剛有兩個民事的30跟31案我們同意好 那麼30案我們凍結20萬提書面報告經同意後使得凍支因為你們那個項目是466萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14046.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14058.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
另外,第31案是凍結342,000元,也是提書面報告,經同意後,使得凍支。這個你們確認你們是接受的。接下來是刑事廳的部分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14068.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14092.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
委員,這三十次案可不可以維持原來的,然後我們努力...三十次案,你們都考慮到你一年的這個業務能不能順利的進行,可是你有沒有考慮到現在已經幾百個人他的救濟管道完全停擺,然後他的權利受損,你有沒有想到你自己,你有沒有想到這幾百個人未來還會累積到幾千人,真的這樣下去沒有任何案件可以審理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14092.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14109.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
沒有任何當事人的權利可以被保障所以我就想400萬其實對他們來講應該是不影響如果沒有壓力的話他們不會不會想要認真的去跟衛福部溝通不會認真的想要提出解決的方案就是提修法也是要修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14112.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14132.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
委員這個部分我們上次已經允諾就是說我們會持續去溝通那是不是可以...你已經持續溝通從委員會諮詢、院會諮詢我已經講了在你們委員會裡面至少講過三次、四次諮詢過三、四次了仍然沒有進度你就只告訴我們會持續溝通結果你持續溝通半年了都沒有任何進展否則我不會提預算案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14137.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14155.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
好,那個基金會代表再思考一下,我再跟您委員確認一下,因為您的30案、31案,您的標定對象都是跟商業審理有關,那您認為這20萬跟34萬2000要並計還是分計?因為在同一幕當中。不是,它一個是大象裡面,一個是業務費裡面。一個是業務費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14159.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14185.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
對啦一個30是在那個他們都同意啊30是在審判行政裡面20啦那那個百分之八的是在業務費審判行政的業務費的裡面好一個是在業務費的42萬427萬4千那一個呢一個20萬的是在在這個審判行政大小大大大大客戶因為我們業務會就是427萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14188.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14213.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
好,那我們就把它加總就是54萬兩千你要把它放到大的審判行政裡面因為它的項目就是這樣子好吧,不是啦,它是不一樣的行政我知道您說這個但是我們預算書商的處理就是共計是凍結54萬兩千元那這個項目是466萬9千元不是,它全部是多少錢,它整個審判行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14213.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14230.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
對,他的民事審判行政總共是466萬9千那目前你兩案合計是54萬2千超過一成那請機關注意一下好,那麼請機關代表就那個34案的部分表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14231.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14251.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我們同意委員的提案好那麼34案呢我們就凍結300萬400萬400萬提書面報告後使得凍支經同意後提書面報告經同意後使得凍支好那接下來我們第35案翁委員3233已經保留了對請看35案翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14259.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14269.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
這個案子是吳宗憲委員提案因為我聯署所以我幫他說明這個案子因為這個114年度的司法院的預算那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14271.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14296.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
這個辦理邵家審判行政這個涉及到精神衛生法有關專家參審制度相關條文他其實他的這個施行日期應該是還沒有公佈對不對還沒有決定嘛所以這個制度其實在明年度仍然是處於舉辦模擬法庭工作小組會議等研議階段那麼可是呢他在執行這個像制度的這個費用編列卻編了2623萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14300.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14308.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
事實上經費過高已經不合理而且2623萬裡面又有房屋建築養護費竟然佔整個經費的61%也編了1600萬左右的費用所以這個費用跟專家參審制度其實也不具有關聯性 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14324.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14328.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
因此提出要凍結該項預算20%,也就是要凍結1472萬等司法院三個月內提出書面報告後才可以凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14340.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14358.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好謝謝翁委員那麼向委員提醒我們處理的是35案在預算書的頁次是第46頁是屬於辦理少年及家事審判行政他的預算編列是編列7362萬7千元那那個委員的提案數是要凍結20%那凍結數應該是1472萬5千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14368.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14372.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
好 那麼有沒有其他我要詢問 那如果沒有我們就請機關代表回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14374.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14402.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
在這裡說明一下就是說這個精神衛生那個法律這個部分已經通過了雖然說那個施行日期還沒有那個定那這一個就是說他通過之後的這個法庭呢他跟我們傳統的這些訴訟那個整個法庭是不一樣的譬如說他要連線到醫院就是去連線到醫院端這個地方有醫生還有那個病人那還有就是說這一個他要做那個專家參審 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14403.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14432.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
所以說他需要的這種法庭場域跟我們現有在法院裡面的這個法庭它的結構是不一樣的也因此呢就是說這個1800多萬是我們就是要來進行就是有六個法院的一個場域的一個改善那個工程啊所以說這整個對於就是說他的那個法庭還有評議室跟參審委員的那個休息室還有那個病人的那個等候室這些那個場域呢都要整個做那個規劃跟那個重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14433.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14461.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
所以1800萬是做這一個雖然說一定要在就是說真正run之前的時候先把這個法庭建制那個出來所以就是為什麼還沒有那個施行但是必須先那個支出這一筆那個費用然後再來就是說本來是預估是114年9月開始施行所以呢其他這個費用呢就包括了參審員的這個日費旅費住宿費還有這程序監理人的那個報酬以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14463.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14487.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
好 那麼跟委員說明齁 在我們預算書第46頁 那麼這一個項目呢 是列在預算說明欄的第8項它其中括號當中的房屋建築養護費1603萬3千元齁這是具體載明在委員的提案說明齁 所以委員提案委員要求這是針對房屋建築養護費 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14490.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14497.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那麼所以呢這個部分如果執行的話那麼機關執行的話是要對是以凍結1472萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14503.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14525.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
的金額來要求對於房屋建築設備養護的1603萬3千元進行處理所以意思就是說委員雖然是對權數凍結20%但是他針對的項目是其中當然他是指名的當然他也包含了其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14525.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14539.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
所以這個就包含了16033千元所以這個部分還是提醒機關代表要說明你們哪些是屬於一次性的哪些是分期執行的那這樣20%的凍結數對你們的該項目正式的推動有哪些影響請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14544.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14555.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
有關於這個法庭的部分他是一次性的但是我們必須先做規劃跟那個發包那所以說如果凍結的話到太晚的話這個我們就沒有辦法去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14557.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14580.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
委員請發言因為羅委員跟翁委員也在場我倒對35案這筆預算會有不同的一個看法那我們現在就是說你在舉辦這個模擬法庭也好或者說你這個法庭建制完以後你該有的設備是不是我們給他支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14582.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14596.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
我認為應該支持你支持完以後你我像比如說司法法制委員會啊那應該是讓他們把這個建制完以後我們再去看看說他有缺漏的地方甚至於搞不好我們到最後去看我們會覺得說你為什麼變那麼少 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14598.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14616.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
你這個讓民眾進來或者說你要達到你原來規劃的目的的一個功能根本就不足搞不好我們還會要求他們去增加所以就是論事我來看這個的話其實這個也跟他們審判行政裡面涉及到的這個司法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14618.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14625.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
：一、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14639.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14640.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14659.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14680.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
是在哪個法院裡面要去做改善就說我還是認為說要提個書面報告了把你們整個規劃提清楚之後然後呢這個才才可以解鬥吧對而且就像我們剛剛講的因為你這個精神衛生法連施行日期都還沒有宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14681.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14693.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
然後現在再做了這些模擬法庭工作小組其實那又回到像之前在推動國民法官法一樣就花了很多錢其實司法院已經聽了很多基層的這個法官司法人員在講司法院過去花了非常多的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14695.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14722.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
去做國民法官把資源都去給了國民法官所以我認為說在精神衛生法這部分我同意你們這個可能必須要做一些法庭的改善可是我們要看到你們清楚的書面報告然後才能夠知道說你們這個之後的規劃而且你們預期什麼時候就要開始剛剛是說114年9月嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14729.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14746.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
對不起,基金會代表,那個主席這邊做個處理。翁委員,謝謝。那這樣子啦,因為剛剛那個徵詢委員會意見,剛剛基金會代表已經說明了,他們本來的有個房屋養父是個新辦的工程,那要先做規劃。那麼因為本案雖然凍結數高達1400萬餘元,但是這個不影響他們的初期規劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14751.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14773.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那是不是就請剛剛尊照委員的意思提書面報告後時的動之那你們提了書面報告之後那麼你們後續的這1400萬如果要進行建築廳設的發包或裝修就OK是不是我真的委員會的同意我們本案是不是就凍結數的部分就是20%1492萬5000元那提書面報告後時的動之OK那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14781.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14809.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
對,原來天然就是這樣子而已,原來天然就是這樣子而已。那個委員會再說明。不是那個期程會不會受影響?因為剛剛交委的...你們要趕快動之就趕快送書面報告。那個期程...我們針對那個翁委員的那個指示齁,我們可以提三個月內提那個書面報告,詳盡的,但是我們建議改成那個主決預標動之啊,因為就是說他馬上就已經要那個...你們提書面報告齁,就可以動之了啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14810.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14836.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
提出面報告的動作,你們越快提就越不受影響啦還是跟你們說明啊,你們提了就不受影響了對啊提書面了,好OK好好那麼我們這個本案齁就動20%提書面報告後時的動作齁對啊沒有提書面報告欸你們越快提你們就後續就可以經費就可以使用齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14838.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14844.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
好 那我們好像都已經處理了齁 來第三幕審判行政提案案號第28案至第36案 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14846.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14874.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
第二八二九三六改為主決議第三二三三保留送協商其中第二幕審判行政向下辦理民事審判行政凍結五十四萬二千元辦理刑事審判行政凍結四百萬元至提出書面報告經同意後使得凍支那麼另外呢辦理少年及家事審判行政凍結一千四百七十二萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14876.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14903.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
五千元是提書面報告後使得動之。那麼接著我們就來處理第四幕司法業務規劃嚴考提案案號第37案至第39案。那麼37案的部分目前我們手上看到的是吳思堯委員的提案改組決議。那麼第38案翁小林委員提案也改組決議。第39案吳思堯武立法委員的提案也改組決議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14905.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14932.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
好,那麼請問第4幕的部分是否委員都同意?同意。好。那接下來呢,我們第5幕的部分,那麼第40案的部分,羅委員的部分是改組決議。那41案翁曉琳委員的部分是要簡列。那麼42案也是黃委員的提議也是要簡列。那麼都是在交通運輸設備部分。那麼請提案委員說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14935.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14947.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
好,那麼41案主要是針對司法院要汰壞兩輛的首長專用坐車可是到目前為止司法院還有首長專用坐車有16輛副首長專用車輛是一輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14950.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14971.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
那麼從11月開始即司法院現在還有7名首長也沒有出缺還沒未補啦那主要也還是考慮到就是經費尊潔原則那麼認為其實沒有必要要購置車輛所以我這邊提案就刪減就整個這個減劣預算拿152萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14978.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15004.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那那個黃國昌委員黃國昌委員跟我這邊的提案那理由跟汪小雲委員差不多啦但是黃國昌委員的提案是簡列數是265萬全減謝謝喔全數簡列啦就是好那麼其他委員有沒有要做補充的詢問那沒有我們機關代表請說明第41案42案在預算書第49頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15007.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15029.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
是屬於交通機運輸設備部分來請說明我是司法院秘書處長楊思璇報告我們明年度要汰換的是兩輛公務車那一輛機車那兩台公務車的話到明年都是到達汰換年限滿10年那行駛里程也滿了12萬5000公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15032.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15046.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
我們要汰換的是油電混合車不是電動車另外有一台是機車那一台機車的部分我們已經使用滿13年了已經超過年限昨天去跟油油委員討論的時候他請我們改為燃油動力車我們會遵照辦理也請委員支持雖然我們現在的大法官還沒有拍滿但是按照新修過的限速法兩個月內還會再補 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15061.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15088.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
正在我們幕僚單位的立場我們還是要把我們的那個所有的備援都做到充足以上報告機關代表有做預算內容的說明但是我提醒司法院那麼對於三如通過的法律案在經公告實施前那你們到底是根據什麼樣的現況在進行預算的編列自己要審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15092.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15097.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那麼請秘書處處長這邊要注意那請機關代表說明你們對於明年要汰換的首長坐車有兩個簡略數那請說明我們這兩個簡略數是只要機關代表是王副長說明還是要繼續處長說明你們現在是認為我們馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15119.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15146.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我們的首長用車是15名大法官現有8名剛剛羅委員帶王委員的提案是認為就8名不知道什麼時候可以再回復到15名不知道那這個我可以理解羅委員他們的說明因為現在的情況就是8名那多久之內會有多少名的大法官是否如秘書處長說的兩個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15149.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15171.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
目前該法尚未公告實施那你在影劇的時候要特別留意副秘書長你要不要做一個澄清是 這個車子是明年編列明年的那個車子齁那所以我們當然是以就是說滿額的15名大法官跟那個現有的那個首長就是來做一個編列的好請五位人發言對 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15177.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15205.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
我反而認為這個主席您剛剛的提醒是有必要但是您的提醒也剛好可以問這個提案的委員剛好就是翁小林委員跟那個公民黨的委員因為就你們提案通過的限訴法裡頭是要求在第四條的第三項要求要在兩個月去補提名這也是你們提的條文換言之你現在砍了這完全就砍掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15206.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15233.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
但是你們提的法不也要求總統要補提名嗎?那會不會邏輯上就是說我們都希望大法官該補期就要補期那我們在做的很多的這個預算的編列都是以現在憲法所規定的大法官的緣額去做準備嘛也不會說現在沒有補期要大法官的那個辦公室就關起來然後什麼東西都把它砍成這個剪掉七份我想也不是這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15235.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15259.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那一這個剛好就提案的委員在這裡你們提的是就是總統就是要補期嘛那這也你們的限期要求補期嘛那再提名啊補提名齁那但是你預算砍了就是全砍啦這個是不是有矛盾的地方這個反而是要就叫這個提案的委員好謝謝那個先是羅委員再來是先是翁委員再羅委員那在羅委員發言之前齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15260.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15282.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
主席再次提醒機關代表我們現在在審預算我們預算是根據機關原額所編列目前司法院的首長屬於首長的機關原額是依憲法規定大法官15名這叫做法定原額也是司法院的機關原額 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15284.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15302.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
議員：一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15308.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15320.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那麼就由司法院自己評估那委員主張就編制員額可能用不滿要就預算員額進行檢列這是委員的主張請機關代表要致重 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15325.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15345.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我們現在提案刪除兩輛首長公務車並不會讓未來大法官全部滿之後讓他們沒有車用現在司法院政府首長加大法官的公務車有17輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15348.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15352.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
有17輛所以就算是這個夏年度沒有貸換兩輛他們仍然是有車可坐而且還多兩部車所以在這裡要講的就是我並不是說因為他們已經15輛了或是只有13輛了我不准他再買多兩輛不是那個意思再加上現在這個岡吳士堯委員講說現在大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15378.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15382.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
司法院的副院長辦公室有運作嗎?要請機關代表回覆嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15406.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15412.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
司法院副院長辦公室有運作嗎?主席承接沒關係,大家會一起回應好了。據我了解現在司法院的副院長辦公室不是都沒有運作了嗎?秘書長現在是由副秘書長來代理秘書長現在不是也是空的嗎?秘書長是? |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15431.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15446.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
然後這個副院長辦公室的人員跟秘書長辦公室的人員也都打算到其他的廳處去服務所以有需要這個有這麼多有需要用再多買兩輛車嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15449.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15476.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
沒有必要啦 對不對你站在這個經費的尊潔的立場人民的納稅錢還是很重要要節省的用所以我主張還是要刪除兩輛公務車的預算好跟委員報告目前我們在處理的是司法院一編制緣額所提出的設備太新案那因為目前的編制緣額並未用滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15477.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15503.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
不管是大法官還是秘書長或副秘書長至於委員提出如果目前機關的預算因編制原額未滿因此就不影響的話是主張將預算原額核實或者依需要來做編列那接下來我們請羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15506.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15525.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我認同主席講其實這個跟憲法輸送法的修正沒什麼關係啦為什麼呢我先講幾個狀況就是實際上車一定夠用啦那我覺得我們立法院也行之多年就我們立法委員其實也沒有專用車立法委員就是大家用立法院調派嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15525.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15548.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
我覺得這個制度蠻好的一方面節省公帑另外一方面實際上我們的需求也能夠照應得到所以第一個當然我也不是說大法官就不能用專用車但是事實上以大法官目前的狀況來講的話他也確實可以透過調派的方式來去讓大法官的車輛的需求還是可以得到滿足以目前的狀況來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15550.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15579.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那第二就是說事實上你現在就是一定說滿10年就一定要換那車輛的使用的部分完全沒有這個彈性也未必是完全沒有彈性所以說雙重彈性加起來這是我們今天為什麼希望說今天司法院也可以考量到我還是講嘛我們現在民進黨政府一直說財政困難啊這個我們要好好的找錢啊對不對然後那民眾當然也希望我們錢是花在刀口上 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15580.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15594.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
那既然在立法院那個立法委員實際上過去也行之有年不是用專用車的方式大家實際上就是公務車一個破了嘛那有需要就去調用那我覺得也這運作得也蠻好的啊對那這種情況之下我覺得大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15595.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15598.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
其他委員有沒有意見?接完代表是否同意簡列? |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15634.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15660.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
因為這兩輛車子除了就是說已經建滿10年就是超過公里數12萬5千它最主要問題是現在那個故障情形很嚴重所以說每年要花的那個修的那個費用就是超過這一個成本了對好我主席在這邊比較有點做一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15662.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15667.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
要保留是吧?好,那麼有委員同意?好,保留,送院會協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15676.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15693.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
好,我們第五目一般建築及設備提案案號第四十案至第四十二案第四十案改為主決議第四十一、四十二保留送協商接著處理第七目對財團法人法律扶助基金會捐助提案案號第四十三案、四十四案目前我們是到 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15705.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15720.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
第七幕的部分有翁委員的提案要凍結一千萬那麼也有吳委員的部分已經改為主決議那請問翁委員做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15721.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15740.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
是,法扶的預算這次是編列了15億可是我們看到其實法扶的財務結構其實也年年都出了一些問題而且應該是說法扶的經費年年提高而且大幅的提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15740.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15761.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
那就整個財務結構的話其實是需要調整之前在立法院曾經有要求這個法服的財務結構必須進行調整而不是都只是靠透過司法院來補助那再更何況就是我們看到這個也是之前才有人在講就法服呢基本上去幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15762.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15767.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15793.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15809.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
因此在這裡的話就是提出凍結法律預算一千萬然後等司法院要就法律的這個整個的他的處理結構各方面提出專案報告後才可以動之好請基金代表說明董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15822.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15845.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
有關那個本案就是關於就是說我們的法護會的那個預算是不是要從怎麼樣去用增加來本金的補助的部分來處理這個問題那事實上法護會的那個本金的部分依照規定是100億那目前是來到38億 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15848.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15876.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
我們對這個38億呢我們都是放在定存上面就是我們的幾個銀行的定存所以現在的定存率這麼低所以在38億的話每年真的從這個利息之息來的數字沒有辦法去支持法服的運作所以就是說這些年來呢就是說這運作呢就是由司法院來捐助的方式捐助給法服 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15877.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15896.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
我們這些年來所接受的所謂行政契約的部分,我們跟勞動部、內政部、衛福部都有行政契約的關係。所有行政契約的收入是從司法院的監助的金額扣下來的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15897.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15915.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
所以就是不可能在這種行政契約的情況之下會增加法扶自己運作的基金所以這是目前的法扶基金的收入跟支出的情況那報告如實好謝謝董事長的說明那請問委員有沒有其他的詢詢那來那個吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15925.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15935.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我想大家一定都是絕對支持法服然後來幫助很多經濟弱勢尋求他司法上的救濟協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15936.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15961.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那看到翁委員這個提案是心情有點沉重啦因為剛剛就董事長的說明就是說他的本金就到38億你只能靠非常微弱的這個利息因為我們不可能叫法服去炒股票嘛我們不可能法服也沒有錢去買土地嘛他也不可能去有其他的這個盈利的可能嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15961.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15986.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
所以大家這麼多年都是在慘淡的經營非常辛苦的支持但是更重要的是幫助經濟弱勢的公民然後國民去尋求他法律上必要的協助這是人權嗎那現在如果說對於法服的預算要給他凍結我覺得對於法服是個打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15987.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16012.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
好那我相信委員們沒有人不支持法服所以請委員對於這樣子的提案因為您的提案是是足以是更希望它能夠穩定它的長期運作可是您現在採取用凍結預算的方式我看來是讓他們雪上加霜所以這個部分是請提案委員、溫委員確實應當好好去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16013.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16036.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
這樣的提案我是認為如果說你們提案委員需要針對法服未來的強化他的長期運作的穩定性要要求他們再提什麼報告這個尊重但是用一個凍結的方式我要再次強調法服真的是產貸經營蠻辛苦的啦那多思考一下好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16037.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16057.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
我想這個對於辛苦的第一線人員不要造成這種大家看起來蠻傷感情的那因為有那個莊委員要第一次發言我們請莊委員謝謝莊委我現在看就是2023年法府將案件的前五名第一名就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16058.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16074.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
消費者債務的清理的部分就佔了一萬多件。詐欺背信的就是將近六千件。那清潔行為就五千多件。像這一些羅志強委員應該各位議員也很清楚啦。這個有時候到我們服務處去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16076.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16099.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
你說委員律師都是錢啦那法服的部分啊那其實就對於民眾來講那真的是有需要啦除非我們真的是說想法有什麼其他更好的一個辦法啦所以我在這邊啊在歐美人這我不知道律師給不出喔你找過那些給不出喔常常都會碰到這種案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16100.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16108.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
真的是有需要,所以在這邊也跟司法院有關啦,所以拜託法府趕到機器啦好不好。好,謝謝委員,那請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16112.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16136.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
我其實非常了解法扶的基金會的貢獻還有他們過去對於扶助弱勢族群所提供的法律的扶助可是事實上我們可以去檢視其實法扶現在提供的這些相關的經費補助也不見得完全都是針對經濟弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16139.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16144.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16168.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16173.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
給予他法律扶助而是要符合比例原則更何況我們有發現其實法扶基金會他有一些的費用去捐助去做什麼給一些什麼民間團體或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16183.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16186.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
參與其他的給予一些協會來幫出書啊或是辦什麼座談會啊不是就幫那個什麼廢死聯盟又出了書對不對是很多的費用這個要 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16202.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16226.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
復合你法律扶助基金會這個經費使用的目的所以呢我們也是看到就是法扶基金會那麼他在這些年來他有些使用項目是不合理的不合理的而且必須要進行檢討在151里所以而且我現在只是凍結預算1000萬要請他們要做這個專案報告之後那麼才可以凍值我覺得這樣的要求也不為過 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16228.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16250.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
好謝謝翁委員那麼這裡特別主席這邊特別跳脫來跟委員會的各位委員做一個請求因為就法扶基金會因為國民法官法通過之後那麼國民法官法過去是因為犯罪致死的就會到法扶這邊來那不管這個被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16250.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16277.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
他本身的資歷財力如何他的犯行如何惡行重大只要是進入國民法官法做審理那麼法輔呢他就有資格來申請法輔的扶助那因為這樣的關係啊我們會看到本來法輔他過去給人家印象是對那些弱勢的被告對那些因為資歷經濟資歷不足者採取援助但是由於國民法官法的施行之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16278.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16298.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
那麼過去還是以犯罪致死為國民法官的審理範圍從明年開始最重本刑10年以上就要列入那最重本刑10年以上的這個被告刑案被告可能形形色色可能包含了違反職務收賄罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16300.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16322.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
那除非法律修改這些人不管他是大富豪還是升斗小民他依法都可以請求法律扶助基金會的一個法律資源的協助做辯護那我顯瞭解各位委員對於社會上所瞭解的接受法律扶助的人不是我們通常概念上的經濟弱勢者這點一定很不平 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16323.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16351.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
但是因為法律上不能因為少數的經濟強勢者或是經濟犯罪因為受國民法官法的審理那我們就剝奪了其他的弱勢的被告他請求法律扶助的這樣的法定給付的這樣的權利那因為法律扶助基金會現在還遇到一個情況就這些辯護律師在受理國民法官法的辯護的時候他們的給付金額是遠低於市面上一般律師受理國民法官法案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16352.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16378.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
所以其實我所知道法律扶助基金會要找到律師去承辦國民法官法的訴訟案件已經很難找人了那最近這幾年有大力的提高拉大辯護律師的幾副項目但事實上就一般通俗的一個了解一個國民法官法的案件的辯護律師一般的行情大概就20萬以上但是目前我們法律扶助基金會大概最高最高到7萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16380.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16397.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
那在過去去年我們本席也提出過一些今年也提出過質詢那法律扶助基金會也盡量的願意來調高但我要強調一下之所以國民法官法的辯護費會這麼貴是因為他要集中審理因為國民法官他不可能分散在一年兩年來出庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16398.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16408.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
所以目前我們的法院的配置跟相關的工房我們都是在兩週內至少一個月內就結束避免擔任國民法官他本身他的其他的生活的經濟的影響那我還是要強調一下明年開始連最重本營10年以上的都要列入我們國民法官審理對象也必然的會接受法扶基金會這邊他有權利來要求提供法律支援在這種情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16426.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16451.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我們法律扶助基金會所編列的預算司法院這樣的編列情況就本席來講都過低那如果我們再與凍結可能會招致那些真正經歷弱勢者因為進入國民法官的審理對象不管他所犯的犯刑我們外觀上是如何的不可接受但是依法依憲法在被宣判有罪之前他就是無罪的推定我們就必須給予他國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16452.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16466.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
法律扶助的必要的協助所以在這裡還是懇切的我很少這樣用主席的職務就個案內容來拜託各位委員是不是我們國民法律扶助基金會的預算盡量的能夠予以成全 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16467.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16483.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
那這也是為所有所有在未來我們不曉得誰自己的親至親好友會不會因為這樣的關係而需要法律扶助基金會的協助所以在這裡真的要懇謝拜託提案委員是不是能夠審酌法律扶助基金會預算多餘支持我真的再三的拜託謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16489.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16517.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
首先當然沒有人否定法律扶助的重要性剛剛我們莊委員提到我們在當市議員的過程當中其實民眾確實有很多法律上的需求那很多也需要法律這個扶助的這個服務但是我要特別講就是說我從一個個案開始講起就是說之前那個施奪獎女老師的這個凶殺案 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16518.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16527.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
那這個凶犯五度判死然後最後大法官實質廢死判決出來之後馬上就免死確判 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16529.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16549.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
那他的家屬有一段很沉痛的一個陳述他說是讓在法院上一直都孤零零的對面坐的就是三個廢死的律師在為死刑犯在座辯護而受害者家屬卻得孤零零的沒有得到任何的援助 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16550.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16569.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
那我要講什麼當然我不是說今天死刑犯就不能夠有法律扶助任何的有對任何的我們講說在刑事上的話法律扶助他有一定的項目嘛但是我要講這橫平性在哪裡我想也是文委員這次提案的一個重點這重點一啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16570.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16599.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
第二,正因為法律扶助基金會這麼的重要,他的經費這麼的重要,所以我覺得正好是一個適當的時機,讓他來我們立法院做一個專案報告。他到底是怎麼樣使用這個經費,他怎麼樣分配這個經費,他怎麼樣去聘請他的所謂的律師。那這些都是在在應該更有好的方式來透明化,讓大家更清楚法律扶助基金會的一個運作的狀況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16600.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16624.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
更何況我跟各位講實際上法扶基金會他預算要增加一億要增加一億溫委員其實說實在話他是支持這個基金會運作的為什麼你明年要增加一億你看溫委員提的是什麼凍結一千萬這總經費不過百一百分之一百五十分之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16625.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16652.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
一百五十分之一到底對你法律扶助這也只是凍結案不是檢列案所以我講的關鍵在哪裡就是說基本上大家在如果熟悉立法院的運作我們有很多種審議預算的方式其中尤其是凍結案他往往不是真的要去刪這個相關單位的預算而是對他預算的資用的過程當中我們覺得有必要跟全國民眾交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16653.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16680.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16681.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16701.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
在現在1億15億的經費的規模之下真的不是一個在刁難法律服務基金會的一個提案反而我認為是讓法律服務基金會到底做了什麼事情更加有個透明化的機會所以我是還是支持我們問委員的提案以上好代理主席我請嘉賓委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16702.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16723.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
好 謝謝我非常可以體會翁委員跟羅委員對於在接受法律扶助的雙方兩兆當事人的處境分別有給予他們一定的支持我現在強調一下犯罪被害人的權益我們另外有犯罪被害人保護法所以呢我本席也是非常支持犯保法當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16723.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16741.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
對於法條的適用的範圍能夠盡量納入不只是受到性侵害甚至未來能受到性影響所遭到不法侵害的當事人的予以補償那麼這是第一個要先述明的就是說對於案件的兩兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16742.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16753.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
法律給予的保障在判決確定之前那麼我們對於雙方都給予平等的支持這是我們憲法保障人權平等的一個基本精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16754.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16775.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
第二個我要說明的是為什麼法律扶助基金會會再增加預算呢?因為國民法官法未來可以適用法律扶助的對象明年開始會擴大所以增加1億大概就考量到這些案件的需求我是要再提醒一點在過去國民法官法的施行期程當中已經有明顯的感受到的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16777.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16795.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16795.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16815.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16815.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
16841.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
所以也才會有法律扶助基金會要增加預算這樣的一個要求不只是因為案件適用範圍的擴大也包含必須強化辯護律師應該強化的他的質跟量的這個需求所以呢我是覺得呢這個部分也是希望委員會能夠去理解的那至於第三個我個人也可以認同呢這個專案報告但是有幾個情況還是要先說明那麼如果這個案子呢以書面報告後 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
16842.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
16868.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
此的動之我完全競表同意那如果還是要維持專案報告因為下個會期因為兩個月內嘛下個會期是在二月中以後才會開議那換言之明年的預算之後那麼還要在下個會期的二月三月當時的召委能夠及時排案那我也不確定未來的召委能否排案那我也希望提案委員能夠如果你們堅持還是要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
16869.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
16872.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
議員：一、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會第12屆第13會期司法院及司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
16895.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
16921.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
承諾在下個會期競速敦請召委來排案進行專案報告第二目前的預算增加不只是一個國民法官法的適用範圍擴大還包括過去施行期間這個辯解雙兆雙方的兩兆之間在資源上的不對稱所以需要擴大來支持那最後還是要強調一次我們如果對於犯罪的被害人我們覺得要予以照顧的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
16922.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
16929.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
那麼適宜的是在犯罪被害人保護法當中去強化他的保障範圍以上建請委員會明察好來吳委員我想這個剛剛鍾嘉賓委員講的就是考慮到我們接下來的預算會期接下來的會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
16943.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
16972.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
的時間怕兩個月給法服專案報告的時間過短那麼可能就是我這裡的話我可以就是同意三個月內或四個月內然後要向司委會提出專案報告後然後才可以動質我這是其實我只是凍結一千萬那麼我在看法服的預算的時候我有發現你們還要成立一個專職律師刑事辯護中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
16973.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
16993.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
還要給他們訓練可是你明明你法扶的律師你就是他三年之後把律師當完三年之後然後就才可以聘請他們這個作為法扶的這個律師也就算是這些專職律師在刑事辯護能力需要提升這也不需要有法扶來做這律師公會也可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
16994.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17021.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
對法務部也可以辦理司法院也可以辦理那為什麼需要法律扶助基金會來成立花那麼多錢然後來成立這個中心我記得好像花上億是不是上億的金還是幾千萬的金費來成立這樣的一個形式辯護中心我認為說你們不需要擴大你的業務這些事情可以直接由這個律師公會跟他們溝通協調然後請他們那裡辦理就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17023.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17043.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
謝謝不好意思那麼吳委員之後請董事長做回應謝謝請吳委員我是建議說43案如果可以的話應當把它改組決議這是我的建議因為我自己的44案就是用組決議的方式來處理那我對於法服要協助法服的制度更 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17045.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17072.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
競盡那我有具體的建議的方向啊諸如我在質詢也多次提到現行的這個法律扶助的籌金給付的方的辦法那他確實是偏低那你對於這個法律律師所投入的心力真的是很難成正比啦所以這就是一個循環嗎所以說你更會因為他的籌金偏低你律師去參與國民法官案件好未來的意願的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17074.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17075.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
議員：一、繼續審查司法院第11屆第2會期司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17097.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17107.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
然後讓你們有所依據去研議可行或不可行那我自己對於法服的預算的44案我就試圖用這樣子的方式我認為要提高這個法服律師的這個籌金給付的辦法才能夠達到剛翁小玲委員說的那個本金不夠啦未來能不能夠永續穩定啊這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17120.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17146.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
這至少是我的自我要求啦所以如果可以的話因為我一直沒有對這個案子我已經改成主決議了但我還是爭取一下機會來做一下說明我也希望司法法制委員的這個我們提出來的建議方案盡可能是更為具體然後我們才能夠跟司法院之間彼此有一個更正向的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17147.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17174.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
這是我認為我能夠有一點小小的協力跟貢獻的地方每一個立委都一樣所以我再次希望對於法律的預算不要用凍結的方式我個人期待這真的我在想很傷感情的對這些這樣協助的協力的幫助經濟弱勢的這些律師我覺得情何以堪啊所以我再次做這個發言我希望預請是不是能夠改成主決議就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17175.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17175.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
謝謝委員們 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17203.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17216.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
我當先講結論我就當說能夠進入主決議如果不行的話我們希望用書面報告的方式那我想就是不是凍結而是就是說用一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17218.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17241.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
就是用一個我們來書面報告那如果那我想在這裡我必須先說明了一下就是說為什麼法服的費用會一直提高我們從這法從國民法官制度國民法官法制度施行以後呢我想各位如果有看那個那個紀錄片的話你會看到真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17242.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17258.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
就像我當時在跟許院長講的就是說檢方是非常強有力的一個組然後院方也非常強有力那我們的辯護律師的部分呢因為我們台灣的大的律師事務所實在少的有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17259.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17273.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
那麼所以當我們在指派律師的時候呢很可能就從不同的律師事務所去找結果這一找的結果大家可能知道就有一個案子明確的這兩位辯護人就在法庭上做完全不同的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17274.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17291.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
所以會有這樣問題所以我們那時候我們一直在希望然後非常的難找到外部律師的協助所以我覺得說我們法部有義務來增加專職律師而且對這些專職律師做必要的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17292.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17309.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
這個就是說我們這一段時間有一個專案小組就是說刑事辯護的專案小組讓這法服的律師專職律師能夠有多一點的時間去研究去練習這真槍實彈的這種戰爭就是說法庭的審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17314.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17342.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
所以是這樣子過來的那為什麼會有這問題因為他本身是一個強制辯護的案子那強制辯護的案子呢我們目前的走向呢就是說我們希望就是說法院先從公設辯護人義務辯護人然後沒有的話當法院可以指定我們就是必須去把這案子扛下來那扛下來的話我希望是非常有效的好好的一個三個角的一個一個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17343.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17356.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
告徒而不是只有院方跟檢方的一條線因為這樣會違反我們實施國民法官制度的一個最終的目的這就是我們所以費用會一直提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17359.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17385.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
確實我們為了應付明年開始的10年以上的重大案件的那個強制辯護的問題我們希望能夠成立一個刑事辯護中心刑事辯護中心裡頭會增加了大概17名的專職律師跟助理我們要把這個team能夠把它強化然後可以落實我們的那個刑事訴訟法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17386.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17412.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
所以這個是要一些費用在這裡謝謝謝謝董事長說明那麼這裡供委員會參考從2023年以來法律扶助案件第一名是協助民眾還債一共有10142件占高達18.35%依序才是詐欺、背信、民事侵權、傷害及毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17412.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17430.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
那其次法律扶助案件有48%是協助經濟弱勢。那麼剛剛陳陸董事長說的是透過法院轉介的強制編務案件是佔了34%那如果說大家在其他的網路媒體看到有85%的預算是用在加萊蘭身上這樣的訊息是非常嚴重的偏離事實。 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17431.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17456.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
最後目前司法制度只要犯三年以上的重罪或身心障礙者原住民的身份都需要有律師辯護不然訴訟無法進行所以法院才會轉介這些強制辯護的案件那不完全是國民法官的適用對象更不要說明年國民法官適用對象會擴大我想這三點供我們委員會做參考最後還是再次詢問董事長是希望說本案能夠改列為書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17459.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17473.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
就使得動之,那麼委員有認為要維持原案交付協商,那請問委員會最後的決定是?好,那麼結案委員要求維持原案交付協商,那我們就做這樣的處理,好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17476.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17504.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
好,那麼第七目對財團法人法律扶助基金會捐助第44案改為主決議第44案保留送協商繼續處理第四款第一項司法院之主決議提案號第45案至第63案請各位翻閱參閱我們目前45案以作文字修正那麼請問委員都看到手上了那麼請問機關代表意見是 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17506.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17511.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
遵照辦理嗎?好遵照辦理我們45案照修正文字後通過46案請問機關代表46案好遵照辦理好我們就照案通過47案我們有文字修正請看文字修正的內容遵照辦理好那麼我們就照文字修正後通過48案有文字修正也是遵照辦理好我們48案照修正後通過49案有文字修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17537.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17556.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
好我們修正後通過第50案有文字修正好50案修正後通過第51案好51案照案通過52案好照案通過53案謝謝照案通過54案有文字修正好那麼修正後通過第55案有文字修正好 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17566.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17591.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
修正後通過56案有文字修正遵照辦理修正後通過57案有文字修正遵照辦理修正後通過58案有文字修正遵照辦理修正通過59案已經撤案第60案遵照辦理照案通過第61案撤案第62案遵照辦理照案通過第63案有文字修正遵照辦理修正後通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17592.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17607.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
好,那麼剛剛因為還有一個就是范雲委員的提案,剛剛雖然說有改為主決議,但是主決議的內容他是改為好像三個月是在36案的部分,是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17608.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17619.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
我想看到36案那個文字上有修正為2個月改為3個月好 那麼現在宣讀主決議提案案號第45案至第63案其中第46、51到53、60、62照案通過第45及47到50、54到58、60案、63案照修正後通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17634.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
17647.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
那麼第59案第61案徹案那麼第四款第一項司法院處理完畢繼續處理第十項台灣高等法院第二目審判業務提案案號第64至第66案那我們就請翻到第60 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
17655.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
17666.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
第64案,第65案已經撤案,那麼第66案改為主決議,所以我們目前事實上要處理的就是第64案,有黃委員所提案的部分,那麼凍結27%,羅委員。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
17672.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
17691.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
依據108年7月17日修正公布的刑事訴訟法116條之二第一項第四款法院許可停止羈押時經審酌人權保障及公共利益之均衡維護,認為有必要,得定相當期間,命被告接受適當之科技設備監控。 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
17693.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
17710.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
司法院依同條第五項規定會同行政院定定刑事被告科技設備監控執行辦法,但是即使司法院及法務部業以共同委託台灣高等檢查署於111年1月12日建置科技設備監控中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
17711.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
17720.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
各院檢機關命被告接受適當之科技監控案件依舊低落111年8案、院方5案、檢方3案、 112年30案、院方18案、檢方12案、113年截至7月底38案 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
17728.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
17751.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
那院方18案檢方20案司法院應該檢討改進提升使用效率以避免像七寶檢討這種事件一再發生所以這個提案凍結預算20%那等高等法院3個月內向司法法制委員會提出專案報告並經同意後實得凍結實際上它這個效能不佳我們在立法院預算中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
17752.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
17769.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
內部也有特別提到就是說院檢機關在開案使用的科技監控設備情形欠佳不利發揮設置效能所以我想這個凍結案也希望我們這個台灣高等法院這個部分能夠努力的能夠把效率做起來以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
17770.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
17793.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
好,那麼跟委員報告目前我們的預算書是編號四之十臺灣高等法院單位預算在第29頁其中底下02辦理刑事案件業務那麼它一共是刑事庭編列了6919000元那目前提案委員是要就這權額凍結20% |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
17796.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
17822.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
相當於一千三百八十二萬兩千元好請問有沒有其他委員詢問來莊委員請這個案子因為羅委員在場所以我才提出來講因為羅委員比較好溝通你看大家都給你這種很溫暖的笑聲你看你像譬如說法院在做這種強制處分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
17824.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
17848.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
我倒認為立法院好好去做一個思考為什麼說覺得這個不妥呢就是說他編了這2000多萬裡面2000多萬嘛是2162萬你去把它凍結20%你就是說叫他說你應該要科技就比較科技設備的一個監控你要把它做一個提高嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
17850.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
17877.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
這看起來其實就是說啊不然人跑掉你怎麼辦看聽起來是對乍聽之下是對其實我倒認為是錯為什麼他錯所以你在要保全這個被告方法本來就是那麼多但是不是每一個案子你都要用電子監控的部分電子設備去做一個監控的部分要去把它做量化這也怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
17879.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
17892.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
要做專案報告我贊成但是這個預算的部分我們先讓他建制完成讓他建制完成以後我期待司法院提出跟立法院反對的見解我認為這不應該量化這個真的有人權的問題我們常常會因為個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
17900.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
17925.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
你會覺得不合理這個人那麼可惡這個人那麼討厭為什麼讓他給跑掉如果是你用大數據去把他撈你撈一撈你會發現台灣發生這種事情只是讓人家不舒服而已那我們我們真的是該保全的被告他跑掉的多嗎我也不認為你說很多人去當了被假設他變成了被告以後會逃亡的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
17927.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
17948.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
原因很多啦原因會很多啦可是你也知道除非你就是不想接受除非你要跑到國外去嘛不然你不可能台灣你跑到深山去啊哪一天你會被逮出來啊天氣這麼冷搞不好你就凍死了啊你要跑到國外去你說除非都不想回來否則如果是一時性的要跑掉被抓回來如果說都還沒有剛起訴還沒審判的那個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
17950.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
17979.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
我想你當法官,任何誰當法官一定對你的放過態度一定會把你加重嘛,會把你加重所以我倒會覺得說我們支持他們支持他們那到底該不該量化哪些狀況之下都要用電用科技設備來去做一個監控這個可以討論喔可是我是反對當了被告以後全部都是要科技設備來去做一個監控因為這很難量化就比如我們兩個吵架等下你告我啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
17980.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
17985.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
你罵我我告你了然後難道我要求說羅志強電子科技設備要把他監控把他跑掉到處跑到國外去玩這也不行這就怪你太難量化那我當然知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
17994.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18022.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
這個提案人是針對社會上發生的這種事情會生氣嘛你這個人這麼可惡法院或者院方或者警方你就沒有好好把他給管束住讓他給跑掉這個確實跟國民的法律感情有衝突那可是你要把他去做量化以後是因為你沒辦法量化到哪些程度啊所以我倒建議我們給他支持事後針對這個我支持你 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18023.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18034.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
請他們來做專案報告但是要要求跟我們立法院相反的見解這才有意義啊不然我們用預算砍人家卡人家讓他們不得不屈服 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18036.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18054.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
這不對我們是憲政機關他們也是憲政機關我為什麼對司法院會比較一個尊重就是說這個司法我都認為我這幾十年我看都還是脆弱了就是因為還脆弱才給他們多一點的支持這麼明理的羅委員應該會大家給他們支持一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18056.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18072.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
我想羅委員迫不及待想要回應我還是提醒大家目前可以看我們臺灣高等法院單位預算書的第30頁在右邊的說明欄那其中有一個括號6在括號5的底下有一個尖銳括號6 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18073.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18082.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
它底下是寫辦理科技監控等業務委外經費2162萬5千元大概是我想本提案的內容是針對這個項目啦那麼這個部分呢是不是委員委員要先再詢問那我們再請機關代表做說明來委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18092.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18114.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
我覺得就有共識嘛第一個共識當然是專案報告覺得是有需要啦實際上我覺得中央委員講的也對啦其實科技監控的效率它其實另外一個反面就是人權的到底我們的拿捏的尺度啦所以這兩個是一體兩面那確實我覺得是有專案報告的必要那至於要不要凍結20%就保留松協商吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18119.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18122.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
我們請機關代表高院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18126.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18144.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
謝謝莊委員的解說其實剛剛主席有提到我們這是委外人力是一次性的那如果說那他這個費用如果這個現在是就我們的審判業務費凍結20%那我們這個委外費用是佔我們的審判業務費31% |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18152.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18175.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
那其實你這樣一凍結其實明年的委外人力就不能夠發保了那不能這個是各法院編在本院並不是本院自己用的是25個法院都編在我們這裡那等於有25個法院他們就沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18176.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18198.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
有科技監控的人力來處理專案報告我們當然是對於委員所指教的當然會牽涉到人權很多議題我們也是一直在鼓勵法官們要多多思考去使用可是我們不能說 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18199.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18212.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
你一定要用。這種案件差別性太大了。這句話絕對不能講。可是以司法行政我是提供你便利的使用。那如果把它凍結的話,那就沒了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18218.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18218.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18236.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18266.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18266.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18266.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
但是這一筆就最後一筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18294.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18323.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我覺得合理性啦你不用把你的理性良知陪葬在黃國昌身上嘛對不對這個科技監控開什麼玩笑沒有辦法做的話採購沒有辦法出去的話誰負這個責任欸黃國昌今天在這裡拍拍屁股不在了議事記錄發言全部卡的被羅志強嗯湯啦你沒有那個那個壞心嘛對不對所以羅委員這一筆專案報告可以但是你不要動它因為它是採購啊我想院長說明的非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18324.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18332.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
讓院長先講,然後我們再請羅委員,謝謝真的是因為這個剛剛講說是凍結是我們6000多萬的20%可是這一凍就是2100萬全部凍結啦是不是剛剛說2100萬的20%這概念是不一樣,等於是我剛剛講的就不要凍了我們就不要凍了 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18354.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18356.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
所以拜託拜託真的不能凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18366.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18394.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
有立即的急迫性來我說明一下我們目前的提案他會凍結的預算數是1380萬2000元那這個如果對應到目前本項預算2162萬5000元那已經高達了他的六七成了啦換言之這個金額對應到他的科技監控的委外預算大概只剩不到四成那這種情況在一次性的發包等於是就停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18395.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18411.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
那他的可能的可能的發生的情況就是說只要明年有因受科技監控但無法受監控的這些當事人造成社會的危安或秩序治安的一些侵犯那到時候呢社會在檢討的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
18413.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
18427.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
恐怕會回到我們本委員會的預算的處理也是吳委員跟羅委員所關心的今天宅宅發言的預算內容是誰在要求做這個凍結的那麼是不是考慮過羅委員用專案報告但是不予凍結呢您請表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
18430.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
18447.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
當然我覺得司法院的代表不管是莊委員、吳委員你們講的都蠻有道理但是我要特別講一件事情在立法院我們審查預算其實永遠有一個矛盾點就剛剛我講的兩個點事實上你的這個科技監察的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
18450.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
18473.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
在立法院的預算中心當中就直接告訴你事實上你的設備情形欠佳也不利發揮建制的效果所以說本來在預算審議上尤其在凍結這件事那簡略預算倒是一回事啦簡略是另外一回事但是預算凍結這件事上本來就是有兩個面向一個面向就是說我抱歉我對你這個預算很保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
18473.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
18482.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
另外一項面向就是說我只是對你的使用方式我覺得我需要你們要交代清楚所以並不是反對這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
18483.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
18502.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
那黃國昌委員的這個提案其實很清楚他是凍結百分之二十他是不是在減這個預算當然剛剛我覺得司法院代表說這個是所謂委外一次性那可能會有一些影響我覺得也言之有理但這個理是我覺得你也不急於這一時 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
18503.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
18528.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
反正政黨協商馬上就會進行啊對不對那這案子我說過既然專案報告大家有共識我覺得今天我們討論就有一個收穫嘛那至於凍結要不要凍結凍結多少還是算了就不要凍結只有專案報告這部分我覺得我的建議啦還是保留到我們的那個政黨協商去謝謝謝謝好那麼能不能請呃高等法院表達一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
18529.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
18529.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
反正喔﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
18558.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
18565.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
六十五萬已經測案啦六十六萬是主決議啦你們乾脆回去發個新聞稿要譴責羅志祥那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
18567.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
18572.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
我覺得這個東西來羅委員聽我講吼我們立法院要負責任因為我們預算被擋了6次7次延宕了審查如果沒有延宕副委的時間坦白講我們可能司法院的預算可能在11月就審了那你那個時候去凍結對於他馬上要招標然後馬上去做協商相對他不會去壓縮他要去標案出去的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
18594.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
18616.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
可是現在因為我們預算延宕到現在剩下五天法定審查的期限你也知道協商我是黨編我至少很清楚這個協商可能到一月多去了就是馬上是這樣所以我我們既然說要到了專案報告大家有共識其實你就把這個案子改組決議然後要求專案報告然後要求提改善就沒有凍結的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
18618.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
18629.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
這是你要他發新聞稿寫羅志強不會啦不會啦不會嘛對不對所以我們達到我們要的監督效果好我我再來來那個羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
18630.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
18649.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
我把莊委員當個玩笑話那說真的如果司法院真的要發新聞稿譴責我那我就那也是樂見啦看司法院要不要發新聞稿來譴責那我要跟大家講還是那句話今天預算審查按照往例慣例本來就有可能審到一月多 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
18650.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
18674.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
那今天司法院你在衡量這些事情上面的過程當中我覺得你不能用這個理由跟我講說我今天10萬火雞連政黨協商都跳過這個理由我不能接受啦當我說過不是不是我就要講嘛就是說事實上這件事情我剛剛說過我沒有否定吳委員你講的論理啊我也沒否定莊委員我甚至也沒否定司法院啦可是我要講的是什麼就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
18677.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
18696.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
立法院預算中心覺得你效率不佳也是個事實嘛那到底效率不佳那我今天不用這個方式專案報告是不是足以要督促你效率更佳那就讓政黨協商去討論嘛 對不對所以這是我今天覺得啦就是說我們把一些意見保留一下就今天有這些討論很好啊那政黨協商可以少了一部分這種討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
18697.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
18713.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
18714.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
18732.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
我們就來看到底是不是紫彩專案報告還是說今天凍結從20%降到10%也可以啊所以這些東西我倒是覺得說先再沉澱一下這是我的意見以上我想因為剛剛莊委員有誇許我們羅委員好商量那現在莊委員已經失望的離開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
18733.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
18748.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
那我還是要跟羅文做一個說明啦因為事實上我了解行政機關的預算審查機關到我們這裡來那我們要看目的看我們的手段跟目的是否有一致那過去我們常打一個比喻你倒洗澡水不要連嬰兒一起倒掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
18748.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
18768.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
那顯然我們各位發言的委員都肯認這個科技監控的預算是確有執行的必要只是在它執行的效能上我們希望它能夠提升跟改善那透過專案報告是不是就足以來要求但是反過來說如果委員認為專案報告還不足以要求我們改採以凍結的方式那結果就是連嬰兒一起倒掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
18769.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
18779.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
因為呢 這個預算 我們政府計劃的預算有的是逐月支出 有的在年初發包 那如果因為凍結而不能在年初發包 那形同整筆預算 不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
18781.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
18799.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
不能執行那我把它講完就是不能執行那造成連精進的機會都沒有所以我們還是希望說我們這個監控科技監控如果是各地方法院對於相關有治安違律的人我們進行監控那這樣的一個行政業務是不可以一日停頓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
18800.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
18807.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
那麼當然這不能據以來要求審議機關立法機關審議預算都不得已去處理那我們希望說委員瞭解我們審議督導他改進的目的到底認為這個預算不應該執行應與權數刪除還是認為這個預算的執行應與精進那如果是後者我們採取凍結要看到的效果要適得其反因為凍結的結果對本性質的預算一次性採購在年初發包的就會造成全部不能執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
18827.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
18850.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
就等同於是全數刪除的意思啦。是我還是要提醒委員我們所做的手段要跟目的有一致性那如果我們要求的是精競那排專案報告大家都同意但是如果你採取凍結縱使交互黨團朝野協商事實上也不及在明年一月進行發包而各地方法院就失去了使用這筆預算科技監控的 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
18852.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
18872.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
機會,那也表示等同於對本案做全案刪除的動議啦。那麼還是請羅委員三思慎著啦。好啦我跟你講我的重點仍然是希望加強透明嘛。那當然我剛剛司法院既然這樣講說十萬火急,那我就問凍結多少是你們能接受的嘛。對啊就這樣啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
18873.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
18874.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
因為是一致性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
18890.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
18907.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
那我要的其實重點還是專案報告啦就跟你講你主決議專案報告就有啦我這樣好不好先讓他們算好不好先讓他們算一下我可以發表一下好先讓他們換一下沒有沒有我不用休息我發表一下我不知道剛剛羅委員你是接了誰的電話是黃國昌打給你嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
18911.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
18934.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
我覺得就你今天已經很努力的替不在場的黃國昌委員替他來說明每一個他的提案即便他的內容有多荒謬多不合理你也是很負責任就同事之間的情誼你也做到了就政治之力上你羅志強有沒有輸給黃國昌任何一點啊你不需要當他的這個小弟服務到這種程度我真的而且這會賠上 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
18937.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
18961.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
可能會相及部分你的我相信你是你也很清楚知道我們現在在跟你argue這最後一筆預算它的意義在哪裡所以立委大家都是一樣平等的其實今天主席非常的尊重照理講提案委員不在場真的不用為他這個不在場的人花這麼多時間在討論好那回到一個合理性齁剛剛羅委員已經在講我們已經要到最在乎的是專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
18967.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
18994.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
那用主決議就一定會要到專案報告那你現在請他們好他們去算五趴十趴我不知道我本人就是認為這個案子不要去凍結他你凍結一趴也好兩趴也好二十趴也好都會影響他馬上一月就要做的採購可能連帶影響就是科技監控整個偵查的空窗或是停擺所以我再次是覺得羅委員你今天很幫黃國昌了你真的不是他的小弟 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
18996.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
19004.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
你在政治資歷上一點都不輸黃國昌你何必當黃國昌的小弟不需要我在捍衛羅志強的尊嚴真的不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
19008.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
19028.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
我跟吳委員講,實際上這個提案我的名字也在上面啦,所以也不要把我跟這個黃國昌好像什麼誰是小弟誰是大哥,也沒這個回事啦。那本來預算提案的討論大家就是各自說服嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
19029.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
19054.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
那你覺得你有道理 我也不是完全沒讓步啊 對不對那我也覺得 我聽聽我覺得你們講得有道理 我不會說每一件事情我都說鐵板一塊 抱歉就是不行嘛 所以因此我剛剛只是提一個idea嘛 那你今天對 讓他看司法院覺得做不做得到 你們就先說做不做得到嘛 以上果然羅委員是有溫暖的 那我們是不是請那個高等法院說明一下多少額度的凍結不影響你們年初的發包 但是後續有精進的餘地 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
19057.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
19070.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
可不可以拜託羅委員,一層就好,2166的一層,可以嗎?2166的一層,因為它是那個採購案。這是200萬好不好,凍結200萬。沒關係,它有2162的一層啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
19078.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
19091.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
二一六二的議程好不好因為這個項目的預算就是二一六二那我們就開始做這樣的處理好非常感謝那我們就以凍結那麼216萬兩千元我先讀第二幕審判業務第65案撤案第66案改為主決議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
19103.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
19109.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
改為主決議本目凍結216萬2千元並針對凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提專案報告經同意後指的凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
19121.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
19147.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
好,對我來講這溫度不夠還蠻冷血的好沒關係主席我最後因為讓他們議事人員去整理一下因為今天這是最後一個案子我想要請求這議事人員好沒關係兩個主角應該是沒有問題的就是說針對我們委員會司法法制委員會對於司法院的預算今天審查下來我們到底凍結數是多少檢列數是多少可不可以馬上整理出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
19149.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
19161.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
可不可以因為我還是要在這裡要做成我的發言的記錄我去統計了過去3年在司法法制委員會審閉司法院的預算的整體凍結數是佔0.33%1296萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
19166.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
19170.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
檢列數是減70.6萬占0.018%我要再次說我為什麼認為憲法徵修條文第5條以及預算法93條告訴我們的他盡可能去達到憲法機關的平等相違 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
19181.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
19195.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
立法院縱使有審查預算的權利但是憲法徵求條文的第5條預算法93告訴我們都是司法預算你起碼維持他的司法獨立的這件事情所以反映在過去歷屆我在立法院也許沒有那麼資深 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
19196.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
19208.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
但是我所對於司法預算的過去每一次除了協商的統刪什麼水電費、油費之外基本上大概就是過去三年是我剛講的凍結數0.33%然後減劣數0.018% |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
19214.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
19240.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
我就沒有做成歷史記錄因為我非常不樂見在這個會期預算都還沒有被排審之前我就看到在野黨的委員一直對媒體揚言我就是要大砍司法院預算我就是要修理你們開刀那等一下整理出來的數字就是一個印證我要做成我今天負責任坐在這裡的審查我認為立法委員我們都要尊重司法權的行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
19242.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
19270.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
所以過去的數字我都整理出來那今年我們到底在這裡審查我捍衛了一個早上的司法預算我們獲得什麼樣子的成果砍預算要合理我剛剛聽到每一個案子我心都在淌血啊一動就是一千萬兩千萬一砍就是三百萬五百萬我們今天交出什麼樣子審查理性審查司法院預算的成績單呢不要拿著政治報復的這種心態在大砍司法預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
19271.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
19286.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
我覺得我們要給社會一個清楚的說明我不是只針對現在留在現場的羅委員我說的是只是你今天特別認真你坐在這我覺得我需要這個數字因為我們要對社會交代媒體也在這裡都關心今天大砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
19288.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
19302.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
司法院預算的結果是什麼好,那麼委員可不可以再詳述一下你說的檢列跟凍結數在前年度我是用前三年111、112跟113年的平均數檢列多少凍結數是1296萬檢列數是70.6萬這是在委員會那最後送到院會檢列數多少70.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
19314.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
19327.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
然後因為到院會捅刪就有比較高的金額我不知道今天審議的結果是因為我知道很多是保留協商但是保留協商還是要算他原本的减劣數跟凍結數啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
19329.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
19338.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
如果說我大概跟委員報竟然會有人提出來那麼目前不記錄保留送協商的部分已經減列50萬凍結數是高達4974萬9千元這是目前委員會就已經做成的減列數跟凍結數 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
19347.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
19352.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
那未來到院會前的協商只會這兩個數字往上推啦過去還不曾有過委員會出去之後到院會把原來的檢列書或凍結書下降的情況所以剛剛委員您的一個統計跟我這邊接到我們議事人員所提供的但是沒有剛剛這個是沒有算這是最終最終那我這裡是上位那你協商的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
19373.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
19375.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
議員．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
19392.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
19406.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
所以你這個是已經在委員會做成的決議嘛那我說的是保留協商的啊因為我們努力就是不讓他直接檢列跟凍結我們才努力要保留協商但是這是他們要砍要刪的意圖啊所以當然要算那個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
19408.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
19412.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
接下來我們處理的是本日議程討論事項第一案已處理完畢以下宣告14年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分審查完畢提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
19430.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
19458.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
愿會討論前需交由黨團協商愿會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明現在進行討論事項第二案繼續審查財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案那麼提案第一案到第四案四案均為主決議依序進行處理那我們有四個主決議那麼請看我們的那個提案書的彙整在另外這一邊那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
19461.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
19489.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
從內容開始第一案第一案是林委員那麼請問機關代表那麼對於內容是否陳董事長是否同意同意好那麼我們第一案照案通過那請問第二案是也是林委員提案好你們遵照辦理那我們第二案就照案通過第三案是陳羽委員提案那請問好遵照辦理好我們照案通過第四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
19491.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
19517.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
第四案也是遵照辦理好我們第四案就照案通過好那麼討論事項第二案處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完順提報院會院會討論前不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明那你們繼續再算是不是保留的部分有再繼續算嗎有齁那我們再等一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
19518.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
19543.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
那麼有關本日議程討論事項通過修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過之決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員處理那現在主席那麼特別應我們委員的要求我們將今天的剛剛的已經先初步將 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
19544.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
19572.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
委員會已經有審議完整我們的檢列數跟凍結數已經跟委員會做一個報告了那目前經過確保的檢列是50萬凍結的數將近5000萬但是送運會協商的部分那麼恐怕還在這個數字之上那我們就做個報告請大家再耐心一點因為這個宣告是有紀錄的 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
19576.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
19586.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
讓所有機關代表瞭解今天預算審查我們委員會努力的審查的結果有多少是要送到院會那個是不在本委員會的含色範圍那這跟選舉的速報表一樣是我們初步的一個統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
19606.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
19621.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
送院會協商的部分你要寫嗎?可以直接寫在這裡沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
19639.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
19640.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
19707.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
19734.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
19746.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
19747.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
二、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
19758.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
19784.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
好,那麼跟委員做說明齁那麼今日委員會呢我們保留部分統計檢列數達一億兩千兩百一十九萬五千元凍結數保留的部分達一億五千八百五十四萬元那在最後呢會議結束前呢我再做一個說明齁那麼根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
19787.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
19805.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
根據民國9494年立法院審議中央政府總預算案刪除司法院院長、副院長、大法官秘書等94年度司法人員專業價值預算任有限制疑慮大法官在當年作出了誓字第601號的解釋當年大法官會議的主席是翁岳昇大法官院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
19806.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
19821.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
大法官包括陳仲謀、林勇謀、王和雄、謝再全、賴英照、余選民、曾永田、賴應南、楊仁壽、徐碧胡、彭鳳志、林芷怡、許忠利及許玉秀。那麼在當中這裡寫到 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
19824.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
19852.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
則施司法違憲審查權至大法官倘無明確穩定之奉及保障年年受制於預算權責機關將嚴重影響民主憲政秩序之穩定與健全與大法官依據憲法及法律獨立行使之權以維護自由民主憲政秩序保障人民基本權利故應受法官獨立審判制度性保障之憲法意旨尚有未符。 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
19853.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
19878.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
我想今天本期撿為我們委員會的召集委員主持今日的預算審議會議那麼剛剛我們所報告的那經過委員會委員的充分討論激烈的攻防之後呢我們做成的委員會的檢列數及保留預算數均超過往年之幅度而保留送院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
19879.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
19908.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
協商有待處理有可能遭刪除檢列可能的又都均達一億五千萬元以上那麼這樣的一個預算審議結果恐怕將使我國的憲政秩序因為立法權的預算審議可能損及到我們司法權的情況那麼非常的遺憾那因此呢做無上的一個說明那本次會議議程所列事項均已處理完畢議會進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |