| IVOD_ID |
16418 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16418 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-25T08:31:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-25T17:02:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:30:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcf4b79b998fff709fd8b52470c073da946d1319bf84c9168245abbb78dae610a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於總統府主管（不含中央研究院）收支部分。
【預算提案於12月25日上午10時30分截止收件】
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於總統府預算凍結項目1案。
【12月25日及26日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:31 - 17:02:00 |
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議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
41.971 |
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67.688 |
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議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
72.244 |
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77.858 |
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議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.695 |
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103.78 |
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議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
133.814 |
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152.637 |
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議員會議。議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1794.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1820.994 |
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報告委員會出席委員10人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議議事錄審核中華民國113年12月23日星期一上午9時3分至12時28分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員羅委員志強等10人列席委員鄭文政前等6人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1821.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1836.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
列席官員、行政院人事行政總處人事長蘇俊榮等人、主席、中召集委員、嘉賓報告事項、宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定、討論事項、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1837.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1856.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
及中央公教人員及難救贖基金收支部分決議114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政人事行政總督及所屬主管收支部分稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第七項及第八項均無劣數第四款財產收入第八項及第九項均照列第七款其他收入第八項及第九項均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1857.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1884.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
稅需部分第二款行政院主管第三項人事行政總署檢列第二目人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展150萬元科目自行調整其餘均照列改列為23億6,009萬元本項提案三案保留送用會處理通過決議33項第四項照列本項提案二案保留送用會處理通過決議六項中華民國114年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1885.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1912.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
及所屬主管收支部分審查完均提報院會因為討論前需交由黨團協商因為討論時由中召集員嘉賓出席說明二、114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總署主管、中央公教人員提案救助基金收支部分基金運用計劃因依據收支逾速撥補等項之審查結果隨同調整總收入總支出本期剩餘均照列本案審查完均已據 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1913.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1926.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本案審查完均提報院會。院會討論前需交由黨團協商。院會討論時由中召集員嘉賓出席說明。此案本次會議通過之決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理。宣讀完畢。請問各位上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1932.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1957.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好,沒有的話呢,我們議事錄就確定接下來介紹道場委員及應邀列席官員先介紹道場委員,我們歡迎羅委員志強謝謝假委員劉改歡迎接著介紹列席官員歡迎總統府潘孟安秘書長歡迎那麼何志偉副秘書長歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1961.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1967.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國家安全會議吳釗燮秘書長徐醫師檢副秘書長還有國師館陳怡生館長以及國師館台灣文獻館黃鴻升館長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1981.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2006.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其餘未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程安排週三、四兩天一次會本日排定報告事項總統府113年度預算解凍書面報告案討論事項審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於總統府主管（不含中央研究院（收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2008.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2029.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好先就報告及尋答方式做說明一例機關報告時請就預算案及法案一併報告之後於尋答時採綜合尋答附帶說明本次開會通知載明委員針對討論事項的預算提案請於今日上午10時30分前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2030.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2059.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
於時不予受理特別再次提醒大家那另外呢上午的會議時間先進行至尋答結束及報告事項預算解凍案處理之後再休息休息後下午再繼續開會下午開會時間稍後是10時30分截止收案時收案情形及提案會整表整理所需時間於中午休息前再做宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2059.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2078.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
下午開會後於宣讀討論事項預算案之預算數及委員提案後及進行審查好那麼現在進行報告發言時間3分鐘請總統府潘秘書長報告並一併報告預算編列情形及解凍案請 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2085.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2111.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席各位委員還有各位媒體的先生女士和小姐在場所有列席的同仁以及所有立法院的同仁大家辛苦了大家早安大家好今天呢貴委員會召開審查本府的114年度的年度總預算及113年度的這個預算解凍案來受邀列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2112.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2123.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個深感榮幸那首先我就就114年度的工作計畫重點及預算編列的情形來做簡要的說明那總統府做為這個總統依據憲法行使機關的這個行使職權的幕僚機關來成命來辦理總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2132.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2148.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
行使職權有關的事項在114年度的工作計畫重點為辦理總統公布的法律預算任免文武官員及提名的幕僚作業那同時也辦理了國政規劃諮詢幕僚的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2151.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2169.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
而同時也辦理了資通安全管理法規應辦的事項以及健全資安防護能力整密的辦理國家重要的慶典及外賓貴賓的接待同時也要妥善管理維護總統府普及的建物辦理新聞的發布與聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2172.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2190.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那同時還要處理的是人民的澄清案件那也要提供卸任總統的禮遇事項辦理公報的編印及印信的註照等等那本府114年度的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2192.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2211.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
稅率編列254萬6千元內較113年度內增加了26萬6千元主要是因為積電品中心的全利金的收入還有主要這個收入以外那同時在稅出內也編列了11億2千3百零2萬3千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2213.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2228.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
各項工作細項編列請在各委員來參閱詳細的資料那我就簡略就預算編列的部分來跟大家說明114年度本移准結開支的一個核實編列較113年度簡略了1425萬8千元主要是第一點簡略了第16任總統副總統的就職典禮3956萬3千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2243.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2252.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
2、增列員工待遇因薪資調整人事經費增加2995萬2千元3、為業務需要增減相關預算減464萬7千元。接下來也要同時跟各位委員報告在本府113年度的預算凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2270.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2292.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
解凍審議決議凍結737萬事項貴委員會提出書面報告後使得凍資。詳細的書面報告已經在今年的3月4日含送貴院所以有關該凍結所提供本府辦理的情形也請各位委員參閱報告資料的說明以上簡略報告敬請各位委員指導支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2296.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2309.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝接下來請國安會吳秘書長報告主席各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2311.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2328.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
各位媒體朋友各位工作同仁大家早安大家好今天很高興能夠前來貴遠報告國家安全會議114年度的工作計畫和收支預算案那再次要特別向各位委員先進表達謝意那在這邊也要祝福所有的人聖誕節快樂 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2330.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2357.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
國家安全會議在113年各項工作在貴院以及各位委員的支持和指導之下都能如期如質的完成國家安全會議在114年度的工作計畫和收支預算請參考書面的報告以下僅就113年度預算執行情形114年度預算編列以及工作進行的重點來跟各位做口頭的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2358.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2371.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
首先是113年1月到11月預算執行的情形國家安全會113年的稅入累計10收數共計24768元執行率是154.8%已經依照規定繳交國庫累計稅出達187442737元執行率是95% |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2386.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2398.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
各項工作計畫都依照進度來辦理其次是114年度的單位預算編列的概況國家安全會議114年度稅入編列23000元較113年度減少15000元主要是出售報費財產收入減少所致 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2407.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2419.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
稅出部分編列2億3211萬1千元跟113年度比起來增加了1603萬9千元其中一般行政向下人事費編列1億7528萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2423.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2440.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那基本行政工作維持費編列3133萬4千元合計2億621萬8千元跟113年度比起來增列了1123萬2千元主要是配合條新政策增列人事費用所致 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2442.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2467.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
諮詢研究業務編列2385萬3千元跟去年度比跟113年度比起來增列了366萬7千元主要是因為因應當前國際局勢所需進行國家安全相關之研究和諮詢議題眾多那依實際的這個運作需求何時編列那交通以及運輸設備部分編列114萬元是因為要汰換副組長專用車輛一部所 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2470.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2495.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
需需的經費另外第一預備金編列50萬元跟113年度相同接下來報告本會114年度的工作重點依照憲法徵修條文和組織法所賦予的法定職長國安會是總統決定國家安全有關之大政方針的諮詢機關依此本會擬定之工作共計區分為國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2496.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2517.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
外交兩岸全社會防衛任性和資通訊安全等五大部分將接同相關的部會來完成首先在國防方面主要是完善我國國防自主政策加速建構不對稱作戰能力提升全民防衛動員能量協助破壞國防戰略以及軍事戰略強化國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2519.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2539.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
國軍的整體戰力以面對中國的軍事擴張和全面施壓脅迫。其次是在外交方面我們要和理念向近國家攜手推動民主、自由與人權的普世價值共同應對威權主義的威脅並拓展我國的國際參與後質支持我國的力量確保我國主權地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2541.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2565.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
積極維護國家利益和國人在國際社會上的權益。第三在兩岸方面面對中國威權擴張嚴重破壞兩岸以及區域的和平與穩定升高對我國的威脅我們會秉持四個堅持和和平四大支柱行動方案隨時掌握情勢的變化持續和全球民主國家深化合作共同維護台海和印太區域的和平與穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2566.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2586.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第4在全社會防衛任性方面為了強化全社會防衛任性將持續推動以及落實五大主軸核心任務協調相關部會藉由全方位積極準備讓國家在面臨災難或緊急狀況的時候政府和民間都能夠及時發揮力量維持社會的正常運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2587.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2617.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第五在治安方面會推動公司協力以因應治安的威脅打造更具堅韌安全可信賴的智慧國家並且要強化網路和數位通訊的韌性以有效降低危機發生時通訊運作中斷的這個風險以上是有關於本會預算執行編列和工作重點誠摯的期盼在貴院的支持之下能夠順利達成114年度的工作計畫目標還請各位委員先進多多支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2617.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2617.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
交,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2633.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2651.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主席、各位委員、在場各位女士先生大家好。國事館113年各項工作在大院委員的支持與指導下都能順利完成。在此親向各位委員表達感謝。以下就本館113年度預算執行情形、114年度工作計畫與預算編列重點做檢要報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2657.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2664.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第1、113年度已過期間預算執行情形。稅務部分預算分配累計數為126萬7千元。累計實收數計394萬2千元。占預算分配累計數300 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2675.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2699.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
11.15%與如期如數繳交國庫其中包括賠償收入使用規費收入財產支息收入費救物資售價以及雜項收入今年因為雜項收入有出版的收入比往常來的高所以比預期的高的不少那麼在稅出部分113年度法定預算數是兩億兩千 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2701.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2704.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
286萬7千元,截至113年11月底至,累計分配數為1億9058萬8千元,累計執行數1億7831萬6千元,占累計分配數的93.56%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2719.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2734.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第二、114年度工作計劃重點第一、加強徵集總統副總統文物及史料多方充實管藏為充實管藏除定期從總統府移轉總統副總統文物之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2734.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2758.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
也主動聯繫對國家社會有重大貢獻的受包養人物家屬及相關單位並擴集受薪人物以徵集重要史料進行整理編目之後開放外界應用。 112年9月從美國印回本館之兩獎文物持續辦理整理編目、數位化、研究出版等以利各界參考應用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2759.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2765.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在落實開放政府目標持續上網公開管藏並推廣應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2770.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2785.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
管藏史料經過應用限制分離之後持續上網提供各界免申請免付費之檔案應用第三研究及編輯出版專書持續擴充歷任總統資料庫促進學術研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2790.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2813.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
再來114年度單位預算的稅入稅出編列情形稅入部分本管114年度稅入預算編列一百二十二萬五千元較上年度的法定預算數減少三十一萬九千元包括項目第一資料使用費第二權利金第三租金收入第四廢舊物資售價第五雜項收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2818.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2825.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在稅數部分本管114年度稅出單位預算編列2億3760萬5千元較上年度法定預算數2億2286萬7千元增加1473萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2837.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2857.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
包括一般行政這是經常性行政管理工作以及共同性的經費是編列1億9021萬5千元跟上年度比較主要增列調整待遇以及窒息樓電源線路更新工程等經費979萬元第二項檔案文物管理編轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2864.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2885.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
其中主要增列汰換檔案、史料、文物、典藏大樓、溫室度、環境控制設施經費494萬8千元以及第1一倍金跟上年度法定預算相同是編列34萬元以上114年度稅入、稅出預算資料相如副表 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2887.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2909.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
以上本館各項計劃都經審慎評估依施政優先順序本經時准結原則編列並持續以開放政府為目標其以提升政府飼料資源之有效開放利用以發揮預算最大效能達成施政目標敬請各位委員先進給予指教與支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2913.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2941.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
謝謝接下來有請國使館臺灣文獻館黃館長報告主席各位委員以及在座的女士先生大家早安那麼臺灣國使館臺灣文獻館113年度各項的工作計劃承蒙各位委員的支持均依照預定的進度如期如此的執行非常感謝那麼現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2943.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2963.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
緊將本館113年度截至11月底指的預算執行的情況以及114年度的計畫重點跟預算編列的情形檢要報告如後竟請各位委員指教跟支持第一個113年度已過期間預算執行的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2963.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2967.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
稅務113年度法定預算為111萬。累計目前來講即時收數有143萬9千元已經如期如數的繳交國庫。稅數113年度法定預算為 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2984.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3006.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
一億八百三十九萬三千元截至十一月份十一月底累計分配數為一億兩百八十一萬九千元累計的執行數目前來講已經有八千九百四十一萬八千元占累計分配數的86.97那麼各項工作都依照預算的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3008.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3029.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
確實來執行。第二個部分是114年度的工作計畫重點有四個重點第一個我們會根據來收集整理民俗文物文獻寫料並拓展採集的管道活化我們館場的文物更加強的展場的語韻第二個我們會教授館場檔案的整理編目保存維護數位化推廣出版 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3031.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3055.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
以及資料庫的系統的提升加強檔案管理跟開放運用第三個會更續進行族群史專題的研究出版專書專題演講以及舉辦台灣史相關的研習活動跟及出版研討會論文集以及深化及推廣台灣史的研究那麼第四個會更續辦理資通安全維護的工作規劃辦理網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3057.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3069.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我們連線的基礎建設跟空調的送風機更新以及機關檔案的清理的數位化的工作第三個114年度單位預算稅入跟稅出的編列的情況稅入的部分我們114年度稅入預算編列115萬交113年度法律預算數111萬元整增加了47000元主要是場地設施費用跟出售書籍的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3085.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3090.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
稅出的部分114年度稅出編列1億13768000元較113年度的1億8393000元增加5375000元那麼主要的編列的情況是第一個包括一般行政編列的86878000元占稅出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3109.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3122.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
七十六點三當然比一百一十三年八千三百二十萬增加兩千元主要的部分是主要增加三百六十七萬六千元主要增加的部分是待於調整跟電費的經費所至。第二個文獻業務的話我們編列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3127.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3153.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
二千六百八十七萬那麼比上一年度的數是2519元九萬一千元增加一百六十七萬九千主要是我們會增加的展場的播放設備檔案數位化跟原住民組的近代史跟續修台灣全市等研究經費那麼此外我們也編列的第一倍金就是兩萬塊錢那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3155.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3175.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
本館各項的計畫都是秉持預算有限跟準決開支以優先順序來持續推動那麼主要的話我們還是期望各位委員能夠繼續對本館各項的計畫鼎力來支持必利管務能夠順利推展那敬請各位委員指教支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3179.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3197.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
好謝謝機關代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容請各位參與便列入公報記錄現在開始進行詢答因為詢答之後下午就會進行預算提案的處理屆時委員一樣可以針對提案內容充分發言所以本會委員詢答時間為6分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3200.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3224.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
必要時得延長兩分鐘非本會委員尋答時間為四分鐘並不再延長上午10時30分截止發言登記現在請登記第一位的翁委員小林發言是主席好有請秘書長潘秘書長來請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3234.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3245.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
市長早安。您知道今天是什麼日子吧?今天是聖誕節也是台灣行限紀念日。台灣行限紀念日? |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3247.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3272.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
您能不能講正確的我們是叫臺灣……中華民國行憲紀念日是啊今天是我們這個中華民國的憲法的實行的日子所以是這個中華民國的憲法的行憲紀念日不是臺灣行憲紀念日這個部分的話您作為秘書長還是要傳播正確的資訊中華民國就是臺灣所以都一樣中華民國就是臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3274.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3294.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們要不要再來講一下中華民國的主權涵蓋哪裡台澎金嘛只有台澎金嘛對那我真的覺得秘書長您真的不夠格這個對於整個中華民國的憲法的解釋您是有錯誤的這個錯誤的理解我們中華民國憲法在自由討論裡面的前言是怎麼規定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3295.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3313.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我不是憲法學者但是我就就我所出生到現在的基本認知台澎金馬我們在這邊那我們兩岸人民關係條例是怎麼規定的我想我就是在我出生的地方在這邊服務的地方工作的地方我的認知就是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3314.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3337.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這是我們生長的地方但是我們國家的主權跟治權的範圍概念您應該要有清楚的認知否則我真的認為您根本不夠資格做中華民國總統府的秘書長我們兩岸人民關係條例是怎麼規定的我們現在大陸地區它是不是屬於我們中華民國的領土主權範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3339.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3356.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
你想中國會相信這樣的話嗎?全世界會相信這樣的話嗎?你承認中華民國人民共和國是國家嗎?是國嗎?他代表中國嗎?他代表中國嗎?什麼叫中國?中國是一個國際法上的一個國家名稱嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3357.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3384.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我可以回答嗎?好請說中國是不是國際法上一個國家的名稱?我想我不知道國際法但全世界在聯合國裡面中國就是中華人民共和國就是中國的代表所以他叫做中國嗎?所以中華人民共和國就等於中國嗎?中華人民共和國目前全世界大概都是這樣的認知那台灣中華民國在這裡已經是75年有哪一個國家的名字叫中國? |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3386.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3414.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這是基本的簡稱當然它的簡稱我們中華民國的簡稱不也是中國嗎?像美利堅共和國大家通稱美國嘛那不會講這個美利堅共和國那請問一下中華民國可不可以簡稱叫中國?這個可能我就個人的認知啦所以那是一個人的認知我就認為中華民國的簡稱可以叫中國中國它本來就是一個文化上歷史上一個這個血緣上面的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3415.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3436.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
它不等於是中華人民共和國這個就是現在中華人民共和國總統包含秘書長您這邊錯誤的理解中國就等於是中華人民共和國這是一個很奇怪的說法更何況我們現在有承認中華人民共和國它是國家嗎?它是一個敵國嗎?中華人民共和國本來就是一個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3441.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3461.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
從我們中華民國的角度那所以呢所以大陸地區就是他們的對不對所以我們中華民國主權不涵蓋這個大陸地區嗎主權制權上的確是如此啊主權制權什麼意思您來講講看主權他的主權在整個中國大陸都是他的主權啊是嗎所以你要不要去看看中華人民共和國的主權有沒有涵蓋台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3463.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3487.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那是中華人民共和國的主權範圍有沒有涵蓋台灣地區那是他們的片面的認定那台灣的中華民國的主權跟這個行政治權的轄區都已經寫得很清楚這就是你們現在的矛盾如果你們承認中華人民共和國的主權範圍他是涵蓋台灣地區的話那他收復台灣有什麼不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3488.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3493.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我這個我完全沒辦法接受委員所以這是你的問題啊因為你承認了他是中華人民共和國中華民國的主權範圍暗示到現在你的權勢我尊重你的權勢但我沒辦法認同說這就是現在中華民國總統府的一個很大的問題你對於中華民國的理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3509.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3514.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這不是總統府認知這是一個嘗試我必須說這是違憲這是你們錯誤的嘗試這是違憲我們要救教但是我不想去批論這個問題我這邊我也不跟這個潘秘書長再繼續爭執這個問題這是沒有意義的因為你們就是一個違憲的這個對中華民國憲法一個錯誤的認知所以呢難怪你們今天說你們不想紀念是中華民國行憲紀念日而是要紀念台灣行憲紀念日請問台灣的憲法在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3537.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3559.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
有一個叫做臺灣的憲法嗎?真的是太可笑了接下來我要問一下其他的問題昨天這個大法官昨天立法院行使這個人事同意權大法官全面被封殺這批大法官都是總統府提名的請問總統府做何改想當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3562.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3587.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們遺憾但尊重立法院的決議那因為經過審見小組我們經過審見小組包括各單位的推薦包括有致見但是經過這麼嚴格的審議審見提送提請大院的行使同意權在大院裡完成了審議之後那被否決了當然我們表示尊重但我們也表示遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3592.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3608.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
昨天的這個大法官全面被封殺不是只有我們國民黨的委員認為這批大法官不適合就連你們民進黨的委員也認為有大法官是不適合所以呢就是最後就所有的這個大法官都沒有過關那麼剛剛講到這個選建小組你們當時有提名了一份選建小組的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3617.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3626.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
有一個審見小組的成立包含蕭美琴副總統賴英兆前司法院院長賴英兆還有謝在泉副院長林錫堯大法官陳彥熙理事長其實前面幾位賴院長、謝副院長還有林錫堯大法官都是在我們法界很受到敬重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3644.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3656.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那陳彥希理事長因為他是賴清德後援會的這個這個理事長所以呢我們這邊就不提他了那麼就他們這次的名單到底是不是這批選屆小組所認可的名單當時為什麼這個會有這份名單還是就是賴清德總統直接就已經名詞就寫好了然後才提出這份名單的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3666.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3677.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
跟委員報告這些每一位除了院長副院長由在法規上由總統禁止提名以外其他每一位大法官的被提名的都要經過審見小組創出這個名單這是要經過他們的確定不是臨時總統抓一個名單來塞進去所以這是經過法定程序有此可見看起來這批選見小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3691.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3708.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
不合格提出來的名單全部都被封殺這大概也是中華民國史上有史以來第一次有選屆小組所提出來的名單全面被封殺的情況那接下來呢請問這個總統府有預計什麼時候會再提名新的大法官我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3710.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3714.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
每一位省縣小組都是學術素養剛剛翁維特別提到我想這些他們都經過精挑細選不是他們不合格我講這一點我必須載明他們很辛苦那我們會在適當的時間在法定的時間內總統目前會研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3728.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3738.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那目前呢照目前大概會因為這中間卡到過年還要必須再經過省建小組的重新組成這個凍結小組省建小組那麼這未來在整個提名凝選的作業我們還會再遵照未來的法定程序來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3749.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3764.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
總統府之前完全沒有準備沒有預期這批大法官會不通過或者是也許只通過少數的人但是還是有這個比較多位是不通過的你們都沒有心理準備那麼我要提醒我們憲法訴訟法才剛修過秘書長知道我們現在新修過的法律什麼時候要提名嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3770.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3792.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
你先修過的法律是你一個版本再加上再修正的版本是兩個月內是請問這個賴總統會依法公布這些法律嗎總統作為憲政的守護者憲法的守護者當然會依法公布但什麼時候再完成這個程序目前的總統府在昨天下午好像是傍晚的下午的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3793.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3795.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
收到這樣的諮問但目前還沒進入到程序所以我還沒辦法給委員一個明確的答案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3803.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3831.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我們會作為憲法所負責的一個總統的職權當然要擁護憲法的一個來執行行政院會提起復議嗎這個我不能代表行政院來說法這個可能要行政院所以如果行政院提復議的話當然總統就會合可就會進行到復議是吧這個我要尊重我們要尊重行政院畢竟大院跟行政院五院的這樣的一個職權總統必須完全的尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3831.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3856.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好我要提醒副秘書長提醒秘書長的依照我們現行法兩個月之內就要提名兩個月之內所以頂多就是過完年之後名單就要送出來所以也提醒總統府要盡快的這個作業還有就是現在總統其實在我們昨天的這個大法官的人選公布之後他就 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3858.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3872.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
在上個禮拜五三法通過之後就提出說面對這次的三個法案他基本上當然是不表認同那也認為民主的紛爭要用更大的民主來解決請問什麼叫做更大的民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3873.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3885.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
更大的民主就是用更大的民主來解決更大的民主,什麼叫更大的民主?哇,你們真的很會玩這種文字遊戲,是要用公投嗎?現在很多新聞上面講說是這個賴總統準備要發起公投嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3889.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3909.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個是媒體的揣測賴清德總統並沒有這樣講我們不排除任何的可能我們所謂用更大的民主是要合憲合法的前提之下完成整個程序那我想這一點是一個最主要的大前提是要合法合憲我們不能因為不合法合憲我們也來跟著違憲違法賴清德總統他現在貴為總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3914.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3940.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他不適合去鼓動人民公投請賴總統要記得一件事情依照公投法的規定賴總統這個要發起公投頂多是發起防禦性公投啊如果說這個我們現在沒有有任何的這個受到外力的威脅國家主權改變之餘賴慶德總統是不可以任意發起公投的我這邊只是要提醒賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3943.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3969.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
到底這個所謂的賴總統指的最大的民主是什麼意思人民要不要走上就是人民要不要發起公投這由人民自己決定而不是由總統或任何行政體系在後面慫恿鼓動如果是這樣的話我認為這就是一個違憲違法的做法在這邊的話也提醒就是副秘書長提醒那個潘秘書長回去要提醒總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3971.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3991.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
要瞭解自己總統的職權並且也要熟讀中華民國憲法還有兩岸人民關係條例等等相關法律規定以上謝謝好謝謝謝謝翁委員謝謝潘秘書長中華民國憲法第4條中華民國領土一期固有之疆域這個幫大家複習一下謝謝接下來有請羅志強委員有請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4001.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4023.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
請潘秘書長委員早請問秘書長齁,擔任大法官的積極資格是什麼我想跟委員報告齁,我想在擔任大法官大概來自於大法官我告訴你答案好了,更快一點好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4024.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4038.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
就是不可以罵民進黨對不對不對不對不會吧來來來劉靜怡一路罵民進黨被提名審查時一起罵甚至羞辱民進黨立委王逸川投給劉靜怡就要開除黨籍這句話誰說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4041.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4068.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我沒有參與這個...天啊昨天柯建民總召說的話直接打臉賴清德連這句話你都沒聽過不會吧我沒有參與黨團的會議所以我...所以沒參與黨團的會議就不用管大法官的死活啊那當然要啊你這秘書長肩膀好大喔大到我都覺得承擔不起啊第二我再問你一個問題喔來這個跟你有關喔不要再推了齁請問除了劉靜怡罵民進黨以外還有其他理由要拒絕劉靜怡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4071.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4089.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
你覺得劉靜是不是個合適的大法官?您個人覺得?我認為他合適。非常好。所以呢,這麼合適的大法官只因為他罵了民進黨就被民進黨砍了。我告訴你,你民進黨人家都說你們專找綠色大法官。今天你們柯建民直接認證了。再想請教你下一個問題喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4090.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4116.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
如果總統真的沒有同意這樣幹那就自己公開向社會大眾澄清不需要任何人私下向我澄清因為投票結果已經確定了這句話誰說的我講委員這句話誰說的我不知道誰說的劉靜怡說的被你們封殺的劉靜怡說的來劉靜怡當事人講了請問賴清德總統有沒有同意我們柯建民這樣幹民進黨立法院黨團這樣幹有沒有同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4119.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4143.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
呃我們不知道立法院黨團的決議如何我問你總統有沒有同意啦總統希望是團進總統有沒有同意啦第二次問你呃總統有沒有同意我不知道哎呀三不知立委到現在你還沒有一個問題答到知道我看到什麼時候你會知道來我再問第二個問題我直接幫你擋立場不知道如果總統沒有同意你連總統怎麼同意你都不知道我看到建民說總統同意欸呵呵呵 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4147.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4167.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以你在打臉客見名嗎?總統有沒有同意?總統同意有同意的方向有同意的方向啊來來來問你第二個問題啊那麼不需要任何人私下向我澄清請問總統派誰去跟劉建宇澄清我想我昨天嫌了總統之命向每一位委員致敬 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4168.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4173.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我親自打電話給每位被提名人大法官被提名人你有沒有打給他你剛剛前面講有不會現在又說沒有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4185.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4201.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
議員這裡是國會電廠我敢不能這樣亂講不會啦我告訴你如果說謊也沒關係我鼓勵你知道為什麼嗎我剛剛已經說你知道為什麼嗎所有在場人都有錄音錄影我逐一打電話向各位被提名的大法官致意對對你又打給劉靜怡嘛好來問題來了齁欸民主黨你是口齒不清還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4207.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4235.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
今天劉靜儀跟你講說私下打電話給他就是你嘛然後他跟我講說不要跟我講總統沒有同意這樣幹你是有跟他這樣講嗎劉委員私下打電話給他的很多人喔很多人喔所以你是其一嘛每一位被提名人沒有關係我問你下一個問題啊終於齁每一個人都接到很多電話三不知秘書長終於知道一件事你就你有打給劉靜儀喔只是你不承認你跟他講了什麼來 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4237.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4265.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我想請教您下一個問題齁這個肉身黨案重傷齁政院沒給子彈民進黨團殺劉靜怡洩憤請問這篇報導齁然後民進黨的立法院黨籍立委齁還說五一戰隊就是無要一戰隊啦無有一啦為什麼呢因為對於戰術混亂民進黨就是立委要封殺劉靜怡齁要給賴清德下馬威啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4265.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4266.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這是宣洩對賴清德獨斷領導的不滿五一戰隊變成吳耀一戰隊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4271.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4298.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我直接跟你講昨天劉靜儀為什麼被砍啊照你剛剛歸納的說法賴清德也沒有同意啊然後呢民進黨的黨團硬幹啊那賴清德沒有同意民進黨黨團硬幹搞得劉靜儀這麼不爽連爆料說有人跟他溝通還說賴清德如果沒有同意自己出來講我想今天齁就是你們立法院真的是搞得大家齁神經都快錯亂啦齁然後我接下來再想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4298.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4308.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
你知道嗎?綠營人士最近我們在審大法官提名常常恐嚇我嘛說如果今天不通過大法官提名就癱瘓大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4309.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4326.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
各位秘書長民進黨現在直接砍了賴清德的大法官那是不是要癱瘓大法官阿是不是我想誰癱瘓司法院大家很清楚齁很清楚阿就是民進黨阿昨天示範阿絕對不是民進黨賴清德一再宣誓我想這邊要正本清明一下團進團出51個每位票票要到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4330.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4341.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
五一戰隊現在變無要一戰隊都是賴信德支持那是媒體的解讀那是那是少數人的解讀話我想每位委員都很辛苦立法院113位委員不管站在任何的立場藍、綠、白都每一個人都在這個過程都很辛苦我想這一點我們要跟大家說明那至於什麼樣的叫什麼戰隊你已經講了10秒鐘我讓你安靜講10秒鐘你沒講說所以藍來 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4359.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4380.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
對你多尊敬啊來想請教你下一個上週五國會審查選罷法、裁劃法、限訴法三案請問賴清德下令民進黨破窗佔領嗎是賴清德下令的嗎我想總統很清楚黨團國會有自主賴清德還是黨主席耶我在立法院外面睡三天金風壽雨哎呀你民進黨連排隊都不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4386.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4395.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
林靜雯排隊都不會結果破窗當賊低級到這種程度啊不要跟彼爛啦今天誰執政所以偉大的潘孟安秘書長你是說賴清德認同這個做法也下令這個做法了嗎扯到以前去來來來第二問第二個前面你要推啦第二個場外一度想衝進立法院的青鳥是賴清德下令動員了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4416.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4417.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
他鼓勵了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4417.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4433.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
不可能。 不可能啊。 不關賴清德的事。 非常好。 所以你也不認同嘛。 委員你很清楚。 當天是公民團體。 推給公民團體是萬用菜瓜布藉口啦。 來我跟你講來我跟你講我跟你講結論啊我的心情分享給你可以吧。 可以。 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4435.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4462.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
正常的執政者當家不當賊啦就民進黨破窗當賊啦正常的執政黨當家不鬧事結果民進黨執政還號召群眾包圍立法院你說跟你們呆心的沒關係來來來中央執政是民進黨國會執政是國眾流黨在國會民進黨是在野秘書長我要問問題了啦我知道大法官互責你嘛你搶答也好說謊也好大法官都說沒事啊所以我知道你會這樣啊不會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4463.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4492.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我鼓勵你啊,大法官都幫你背書當靠山不用擔心,盡量搶答,對不對?對啦,謝謝七年齁,上個禮拜五一度要衝進立法院嘛請問是誰拿油壓碱破壞串聯起來護碼鐵繩索是誰?是誰?是誰?我不知道就在座這位,我們的宗嘉賓昭偉啊你們還有李民進黨立委說叫大家衝進來啊欸我跟你講,我跟你秘書長講請問賴清德除了是中華民國總統之外他一個身份叫什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4493.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4493.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
叫什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4495.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4497.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
總統無分天南地北啦總統就是總統啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4524.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4545.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
到國外也是要坐鎮指揮啦這樣講不對我在總統府都待過我跟你講我跟你講沒關係啦我跟你講啦如果但是總統真的不認同認不認同這種做法嘛事後問嘛我們宗家兵稍微就去檢啊啪啪啪很棒啊英勇啊號召群眾衝進立法院啊民進黨的立委們喊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4546.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4548.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
黨主席真的不認同的話稍微口頭告誡一下我們中召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4575.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4579.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但新澤總統也下了天天假動令上週五也是下了動員令對不對但新澤有下過天天假動令吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4592.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4612.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
呃跟委員再次報告也再次你又要盤不開天啊賴清德不會指揮民進黨團什麼時候動戰所以你要打臉賴清德之前說天天都要動員嗎根本這那不就是指揮了啊指揮烏有的的一個指控什麼指揮烏有賴清德總統直接公開講說叫大家天天都要動員啊來來來沒關係啊叫大家要認真問政但是黨團制止來來來我想請問上週五今天民進黨是不是假動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4621.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4646.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是不是假凍了?當然假凍因為投票因為這個結果呢在裁划法的時候邱盈盈竟然跑票欸你知道吧跑啦不見啦不見蛋啦那我想請問要不要黨計處分邱盈盈啊邱委員已經公開說明當天他身體不舒服因為衝撞之後身體不舒服您進來喔不只邱盈盈啦不只邱盈盈沒關係我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4647.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4662.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我看秋瑩那天精神飽滿我從頭到尾在直播秋瑩精神很好當然也可能啦身體突然有狀況祝福她可是我要跟秘書長講我今天一味賴清德不止不只秋瑩跑啊跑好幾個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4664.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4683.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4683.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4698.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
今天大法官都你靠山對不對你不管是搶答還是說今天說謊甚至翻過去曾經說過的話基本上也沒事啊立法院你們皆大歡喜嘛大法官就你靠山啊我懂啊來來來好再想請教你啊我直接跟你講一個結論心得啦這樣對得起青鳥嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4702.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4702.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
幹委呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4702.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4702.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
你說... |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4730.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4738.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
賴清德講的啦來現在想問下一個才化法立法延宕總統向局外人這個國家好像沒有人看見問題沒有人解決問題這誰講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4742.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4750.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
賴清德講的欸秘書長賴清德講的話你還是要熟悉一下吧這個有一些沒有講的不能硬塞到嘴巴欸2012年9月10號自由時報報導自由時報是造謠媒體被我們派出來認真了說賴清德沒講厲害啊委員講的不是我講的來來來第二個好我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4761.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4779.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
任何負責的總統不可能把關係到直轄市發展的財化法放在一邊不管各縣市要捐儲幾件讓財化法儘速修正中央財政權下放表柄做大才能改善地方財政問題如果不解決財化法的問題不可能進步都是誰講的啊你不知道的我幫你講了我自己就這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4781.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4788.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
欸!你挑題了!我下一個就要問你講了啦!我下一個就要問你講啦!對!非常好!賴清德講的都不知道!自己講的總知道!但絕對不是像這樣的空牌授權然後切了不知道項目也不知道照用在什麼項目預算法不是這樣不是垂直組合不是垂直分配還要橫向的沒關係啦!您辛苦啦!我直接跟你講啦!我告訴你在野黨今天就是捍衛賴清德的理念啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4810.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4837.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
結果賴清德你不買單不滿意就算了就拍完講說啊你這個垂直分的不好水平分不好東北區分的不好南北區分的不好請問秘書長同意修法行政院有沒有提版本啊同意修行政院有沒有提版本卓院長第三次問你行政院有沒有提版本卓院長已經跟韓院長在協商你在寫韓院長你要推韓刊跟國語啊NO NO |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4840.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4843.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
也跟透過韓院長官沒有提版本跟朱主席報告朱主席希望年底十月底前提出版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4853.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4875.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
所以你這邊畫的不好那邊分的不好你搞得民進黨立委想提版本都不讓他提啊主席你不用緊張啦我知道你想要救駕啦謝謝你啦我告訴你本地法院這邊我們司法法制委員會遇時的比比皆是啊你不要只挑我一個人因為我講到你今天親鳥的事情你今天不高興就用主席的權威來壓我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4876.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4900.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就讓我再多問一題嘛好不好謝謝主席啦好不好謝謝主席嘛謝謝請注意時間尊重後面委員的謝謝啦謝謝啦你們剛剛你們玉石也一大堆如果通通都遵守我也就沒話說來來沒關係不要講剛剛司法及法制委開張到現在你沒有玉石你被我抓到好幾次謝謝你我就知道你會想要來這一招早就準備好了來我想請教你齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4902.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4923.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
你剛自己承認才化法你也曾經表示過意見這題我就跳過因為主席不希望我問到你自己打臉我尊重主席然後呢我跟你講齁沒關係啦在野黨依照賴清德理念修正才化法變成毀憲亂政禍國殃民周志達耳光的做法我跟你講為什麼我跟秘書長講我真的奉勸你知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4924.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4947.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
因為今天為什麼民進黨在立法院造反我是民進黨的立委我都不知道怎麼辦你賴清德之前口口聲聲才化法無限至高非改不可結果你下令立法院要他們怎麼樣要他們誓死打臉賴清德以前賴清德我是邱毅我也會說我生病我不投票阿我怎麼敢投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4948.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4964.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我怕打臉的以前的賴清德啊我心疼以前的賴清德啊所以千萬不要黨計處分邱毅英拜託你邱毅英今天是為了以前的賴清德捍衛的要黨計處分處分你們不認同的撿那個護碼的宗家兵召委啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4965.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4976.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
可以嗎?幫我轉拿一下那個賴總統我沒有要任何的意見但是真的不是這樣編劇的隨便你啦,隨便你總統沒有,雖然反制立法院下週五通過的法律有兩個前面那個是沒問完的問題這個是最後一個問題,謝謝你最後一個問題,真的最後一個主席給一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4989.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4996.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
來!總統要反制立法院下周五通過的法律有兩個反制方法嘛齁第一個是不公布法律第二是行政院長不附屬有這個原意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4999.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5021.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
會考慮嗎?總統?針對法律案三讀通過的目前總統沒有表態要怎麼做沒有表態啊所以還在考慮要不要有答詢了剛剛的這個委員好啦我知道我從剛剛從頭問到你要不要問題每一個答的每一個願意答也每一個答的出來那我直接來我們說法律救教第一個不公布啊你知道憲法72條規定什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5025.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5036.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
不知道我直接告訴你啦立法院法律通過以總統及行政院總統在10日總統因於10日內收到10日內公佈之請問規定是因還是得?憲法規定是因還是得?因嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5041.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5064.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
你也知道嘛因是義務欸不是選擇權得才是總統開心不開心看他高興所以總統收到那10日就要公佈不公佈除非按照那個復議的規定就是違憲來第二個不附屬當總統要公佈法律結果跟我講行政院長不附屬欸我跟秘書長講你知道這是打臉誰你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5066.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5094.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
總統說我要公佈法律行政院長說我鳥你啊我鳥你啊我就是不公佈賴清德拿我怎麼辦勸勸賴清德如果行政院長不附屬不是打臉立法院是打臉總統因為總統依照憲法72條必須公佈法律他公佈法律行政院長不透過除非復議啦今天如果行政院長不公佈直接打臉賴清德委員我還是要再度重申 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5095.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5101.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
總統府會在合憲合法的前提之下來處理已經再次強調了不用在這邊編來編去所以你的意思是絕對不會不公布法律絕對不會讓行政院長不附屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5113.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5129.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我只能代表秦政院說話我只能代表總統府說話我所說的總統會在合法合憲的前提之下至於尊重立法院黨團秦政院怎麼樣他們提故意或是釋憲與否各種各種手段的大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5135.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5164.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
賴清德已經被邱毅英等跑票立委打臉你無所謂賴清德提名的劉靜儀也被你民進黨立法院打臉黨團打臉全體民進黨立委一致打臉賴清德你也無所謂真的拜託不要搞一個行政院院長不附屬繼續打臉賴清德這樣搞得我都覺得賴清德是有憲政被虐待狂嗎千萬拜託賴清德珍重保重啊民進黨都在偏激瘋火造反啦謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5166.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5188.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
謝謝羅委員謝謝潘秘書長那由於剛羅委員的質詢內容有指涉到本席那不便打斷您的發言在這裡做個補充說明首先您聽到本席在上週五當日您描述有去康源車道入口持優雅檢解除路障一事 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5189.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5216.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這是外觀的描述接著您說有民進黨委員鼓噪民眾衝進立法院這個可能包含了您的一些臆測那您的內容本席充分尊重但是我再補充的因為涉及到本人在您說的油壓檢的事情發生前當天場外有救護車要從該車道進入立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5218.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5244.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
當場的警察的指揮官表示入帳的鑰匙不在身上我想這是一個客觀的描述那在您所說到的利用演說鼓動民眾衝入事實上在這個之後並沒有任何民眾在入帳排除之後進入立法院我在您描述的兩點前後各增加了一個事件跟後面事實的說明以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5245.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5273.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
另外我們還是呼籲我們委員會的委員今天的時間是6加2剛剛委員為了充分發言下午還有時間我們提案的說明的時候還可以繼續發言請盡量顧慮到其他委員尊重其他委員的發言時間接下來有請林委員市民發言好謝謝主席我們請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5274.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5276.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
有請潘秘書長秘書長早委員早我想昨天大法官全數都被否決我首先想請問總統何時還會再補貼新的大法官跟委員報告我想昨天一否決之後大概我們稍微討論因為還沒收到文我想我們會在目前考慮未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5304.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5323.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個在合憲的當中裡面怎麼籌儲這個審見小組那是否要重新公告遴選與否總統已經在啟動相關的一些作業程序我們也會在充分討論之後會來對外公布是那民主黨提到說是否還有否啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5326.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5347.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
什麼?你還會否定說不提嗎?因為你剛剛說是否會提當然要提啊這一定是應該要提的嘛絕對要提的嘛我剛剛的意思可能說不清就是說希望我們有不同的那種時間點因為這中間有過年是什麼時候公佈什麼過年後所以你現在沒有辦法回答我說到底大概時間點會落在什麼時候你沒有辦法具體回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5351.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5364.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
但是一定會提就對了啦會補提名那再請問民主黨您也當過立法委員嘛也當過縣長在您的心目中您認為大法官他要符合什麼條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5366.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5366.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我告訴你我自己設定了四個門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5394.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5404.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
大法官學術專精還有有傑出的學術成就這一定是必要條件嘛第二個大法官的整個品格啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5405.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5426.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算凍結項目2案。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必須高尚,並沒有人格上的瑕疵。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必須高尚,並沒有人格上的瑕疵。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必須高尚,並沒有人格上的瑕疵。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必須高尚,並沒有人格上的瑕疵。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必須高尚,並沒有人格上的瑕疵。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必須高尚,並沒有人格上的瑕疵。 bicyclos,道德,品德,情操必 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5428.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5455.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
也要非常尊重民意我一直對外說我認為大法官這四個要件是缺一不可民主黨你贊同嗎當然所以這一次的大法官我們看到就是說為什麼全部都被刷掉就是經過審視都不符合這樣的一個資格但是昨天很遺憾我們看到劉靜怡大法官這個劉靜怡啊竟然被這個民進黨否決掉所以我們看到一種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5457.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5483.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
劉靜儀因為民眾黨支持他但是賴總統提名他竟然被同黨的立法委員全部把他不贊成票連他都被刷掉所以我們不禁產生一個疑問是不是除了我剛才講的四個必要條件以外如果大法官是跟民進黨的主張不同不同調或者這個大法官是會罵民進黨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5486.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5489.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個條件你們也把它納入你們的必要條件之一嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5490.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5509.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那我想這個都不是事實啦總統提名的被提名人都希望每一位被提名人能夠全數通過這是一個基本原則所以這個是沒有跟總統溝通過這個目前府方完全不知道這個我們黨團有什麼樣的戰略基本上我們尊重過去民進黨成立以來在黨團以來都是國會自主黨團自主這是民主黨這明顯打臉總統欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5521.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5527.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
在總統提名的大法官竟然被執政黨的立法委員否決掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5529.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5555.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個原因是什麼我想連那個劉靜怡大法官他自己都很想知道所以他也呼籲說賴總統你你是不是要來講這個說明一下或者府方你要說明一下到底他為什麼同黨的立法委員不支持他府方的態度很清楚就是總統所提名的七位被提名的人都希望完全都希望通過嘛所以是好OK好我接下來問一下下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5556.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5575.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那小民主長你也擔任過我剛才講擔任過縣長齁財化法25年沒有修了你到底贊不贊成財化法要修我個人吶吼我贊成財化法修但這個修要充分的討論必須有科目細項因為不是只有人口還有土地面積包括所以你贊成修法的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5582.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5599.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但是呢我贊成修但從來沒有一個黨能夠修過除了這一次以外我贊成的原因但因為不管是馬政府蔡政府或是扁政府都要修但沒有一個可以修得過去就是因為計算的基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5600.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5618.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
不一樣那計算的公式也不一樣沒有辦法取得共識那所以我在能修的原因是必須把他的相關的一些土地面積再加上因為你以屏東縣為例被修掉之後變成全國分配最少而且人均分配倒數第二相當不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5623.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5635.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
為什麼我們全國民眾一直認為說財務法這次的修正民進黨為什麼會這個有這麼大的一個反彈剛剛你有部分做論述了但是我們再看過去你們的呼籲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5636.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5665.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
賴清德總統在台南市長期間他就一直呼籲修正財務法給予地方創生發展地方經濟當時包含雲林縣的蘇志芬還有嘉義縣的張花冠縣長全部支持也包含蘇貞昌前院長他講什麼蘇貞昌當時是擔任民進黨的黨主席他講說他當地方首長時他編預算常常徹夜難眠半夜醒來全身都是冷汗 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5666.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5688.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
就是因為才化法沒有修啊所以才化法的修正是非常重要的但是我們要告訴民進黨那如果你認為你也認為要修啊要修為什麼你們的版本遲遲拿不出來你執政了你過去再也一直說要修為什麼你執政你就拿不出版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5689.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5712.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我想委員容我來報告一下我們過去的主張不管我在當立法委員或是縣長我都主張修但是修必須有版本那我知道在立法過程裡面這個行政院長有拜會這個立法院長有希望折衷一個版本也透過立法院長這個你重複了我都了解我必須要講這個過程但是這個我都非常了解但是我們就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5717.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5736.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
二十五年了你們2012年就主張要修喔是接下來2012年了你還提不出版本所以民進黨你現在才講說在我們這個表決的前一天才透過韓院長告訴朱主席這個再給我們四個月的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5738.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5768.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
你認為在野黨是這個沒讀書嗎?是文盲嗎?這個話我們會相信嗎?是那所以即時不來溝通到了前一天才告訴我們財政收支法劃分法我們行政院要在4個月才提出版本12年提不出版本啦那4個月才要提那後來這個叫誠意嗎?後來朱立文主席不是講年底嗎?所以你們這個話變成說大家不會相信啦因為你們拖太久了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5768.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5771.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
OK 好 主委再給我一分鐘的時間我再問一下最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5774.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5801.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我們剛剛一直提到就是說我們這個三大法案出來之後一直這個有民進黨的不管是徹底網軍或者是政論節目或者有一些的這個律友友一直主張說總統府總統不要公佈不要復那個行政院不要復甦所以我還是最後要鄭重的來請教民主黨總統會不會公佈這部法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5803.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5828.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我想我剛剛已經回答過總統會如實是他是憲法的守護者所以他有務必執行憲法賦予的職權會來公佈一定會公佈那要等收到之後我們會如期公佈一定會公佈就會依照憲法72條來公佈尊重我們三權分立下的立法權我呼籲我們總統府一定要公佈目前是五權了好好好OK好謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5830.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5854.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好謝謝潘秘書長謝謝林委員接下來有請沈委員發會發言主席我們先請潘秘書長有請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5861.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5874.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
二委員早秘書長早今天辛苦因為這個在野黨看到總統府這個總統這兩個字就起檔了這個你們來總統府來這裡就是注定你要在這裡受到羞辱不過這個過程當然他也沒給你什麼講話的機會我在這裡其實我比較關心的是我們昨天 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5890.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5910.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
在這個立法院的這個最大黨國民黨的全數不同意的情況之下使得我們這個總統府所提的這個大法官提名提名人沒有一個通過了那剛才在質詢過程中也有提到這個按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5911.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5923.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
按照之前通過的這個限訴法齁這個裡面說這個大法官如果不足額要在兩個月內補提名總統府要在兩個月內補提名對不對那我們會按照這樣子的時程來進行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5926.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5944.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
目前還在討論階段當然應該會朝向在合憲跟委員報告會朝向這個合憲的一個執行憲法所賦予的執行來說民主的紛爭要用更大的民主來解決所謂更大的民主我想這是總統所講的這是合法合憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5945.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5969.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
就是最大的民主了對不對我這樣理解應該對吧我剛剛也特別跟委員報告總統用所謂的用這個更大的民主程序來對未來的一個努力那一定是合法合憲的程序吧在大前提是合法合憲在程序上也都是這樣的所謂更大的民主就是合法合憲之下的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5970.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5993.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那其實剛剛我們提到說這個在限數法齁這個規定說這個兩個月內要補提名要補足提名名額啦齁這個齁其實法就這樣子訂了今天經過經過這個這個阿整個立法過程完全沒有討論啦為什麼你要訂這兩個月勒是因為很急你不能夠讓大法官會議空轉所以你要兩個月內趕快提名嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5994.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6015.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
啊如果是這樣子大法官會議大法官的這個人人事同學這名單送進立法院立法院拖了多久才審查呢?四個月捏我們自己立法院拖四個月才審查結果立法說要總統府兩個月就要提就要補提名那現在立法說兩個月補提名兩個月補提名進來立法院再給你拖四個月不是又半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6017.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6042.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這種立法品質啦這種立法品質這就是因為為什麼會這樣子就是因為整個立法過程沒有討論的過程完全沒有討論的過程啊剛才那邊講說才化法才化法怎麼有版本沒有版本國民黨有什麼版本國民黨的版本是最後修正動議再修正動議到當天表決還不曉得那個比例到底是多少還在那邊試算這個叫做先提版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6046.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6069.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
地方財政是這樣立法院這一屆的立法院打了幾次架是為了國民為了民生打的架嗎?錯!第一次打架是立法委員自己要擴權第二次打架是地方政府要搶錢是立法委員怕自己被罷免全部都是為自己啦這樣子的國會齁我個人是認為是真的是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6076.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6100.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
然後在這裡再來講說啊這兩個月要重提照這種方式齁我們總統府第一次所提出來的名單一定是總統府經過審計委員會認為最好的名單那最好的名單被你封殺了你說兩個月再提那其實兩個月再提不就變次好的名單那再給你封殺一次再兩個月再提第三次再提第三好的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6102.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6113.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這是荒謬的立法齁實在是因為沒有討論的過程所以我們連這種討論在立法過程中這樣子簡單的立法道理都沒有辦法跟人民來來澄清跟人民來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6116.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6130.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這部分我想這個希望我們總統府這個在賴總統所講的民主的紛爭用更大的民主來解決那我們要在合法合憲的範圍內來解決這三大 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6133.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6153.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
爭議法案的後續問題好不好?那個委員報告齁那個因為這個未來牽扯到因為為什麼講我們還在討論的當中因為目前有120件的這個人民的一個這個憲法的事件的一個案件在司法院裡面是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6154.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6162.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
目前是還可以運行但如果新法他們就沒辦法運行所以整個憲法法庭會停擺所以總統目前記憶所以總統目前記憶在這樣的狀況之下還在未來是否要如期的這個部分我們還是會再討論在核線上謝謝接下來我們請國使館來請國使館陳館長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6187.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6210.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
陳教授好這個我想我們目前有總統副總統的這個文物的典藏是由我們國使館負責的對不對是我們過去齁其實在威權時期這些總統文物根本就沒有什麼管理的辦法威權時期家天下齁他收總統的文物就是他們家的東西這個連他的日記都他們家自己人處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6211.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6233.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那在這個2004年才立法立法有關這個總統府總統的文物管理條例對2004年立法那在2017年做了一次修正對不對對對做了一次修正齁因為這個文物實在是太多了所以你如果沒有做一個處理齁那處理要法定程序啦齁是那我們現在目前國史館裡面所管藏的這個有關總統府總統的文物齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6234.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6259.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
目前有多少件?我們現在手上有一個資料是2017年2017年齁說總統副總統的文物多達85萬件其中禮品佔12000多件那現在呢到現在我們的這個庫存的文物有多少件我知道你們有給我這個目前的文物庫存量是15182件那總共所有的文物有多少件? |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6260.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6281.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
報告委員應該是有200多項包含照片然後影音資料還有文件這些有200多項這麼多的文物我們那時候為了管理這文物我們用這個總統副總統文物管理條例之後再用以這個法來授權授權了一個一個用第6條6-2條第一項第4款來授權了一個總統副總統文物審見委員會設置辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6288.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6303.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
以及授權了一個總統副總統文物註銷辦法也是有一些文物註銷了放太久你一直存當年有保存價值現在可能已經毀壞有等等各種理由在我們的法規裡面都有所規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6305.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6329.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那這個現在的程序非常清楚他就是必須經過如果你這個文物要註銷要必須經過審見委員會的審查對不對而且我們每年這個文物註銷每年都要公告文物註銷都有一個目錄公告對不對是的那所以我就這個註銷原因依法我看這個大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6330.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6342.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
有幾個有7項原因註銷註銷的原因我記得7個7個原因7個原因大致上大部分都是用這個用這個第一個跟第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6343.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6344.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我看到第一項我就覺得蠻驚訝的 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6372.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6394.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
你們的第一項是牛舌餅注銷原因是因天然災害不可抗力因素致文物毀損且無法修復牛舌餅然後他取得的日期是2014年6月13日總統收到一個牛舌餅放了10年之後這個牛舌餅放了10年之後把它注銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6396.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6418.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
對,因為採集處長比較知道那個是,包委員因為當初那項禮物他是把它做成掛飾做成掛飾對,掛在牆壁上的一個飾品用牛舌餅做成掛飾是是是好,我在看說怎麼牛舌餅放10年註銷是好,像其實我們公共辦法裡面有規定這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6420.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6446.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
所謂的文物齁他是國家財產他是國家而且他這個可以有可以保存的禮品必須要新台幣價值要新台幣30003000元以上嘛對不對3000元以下的就不列入文物了對不對館長沒有錯他就沒有移轉對沒有啦齁那我就看這個除了這個剛講的牛舌餅齁讓我很驚訝說牛舌餅放了10年才才註銷以外齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6448.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6474.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我還看到這個這個林書豪的T-shirt林書豪的T-shirt有好幾件這個注銷這個我看林書豪的T-shirt有價值有3000元以上嗎因為優秀的球員不論是棒球、籃球他們給總統的一些我知道啦我沒有惡意啦我意思是說可是我在網路上看他的一件賣1000多塊而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6475.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6483.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這個有林書豪的這個T恤也註銷了好幾件還有一個叫做馬英九總統紀念冊組你們最後作為國史館的參考品因為你們要送其他機構來你們有一個辦法啊你們要送其他機關典藏馬英九的紀念冊連馬英九基金會都不要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6502.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6524.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
你們有沒有去問過阿?你們有沒有認真地去問這些單位到底有沒有單位要典藏?報告委員那個林樹豪的那個紀念人的T-shirt我們有接洽到體育博物館他們願意接受他們願意接受那個沒有問題啦那個沒有問題那個問題是我在這個依法他這3000塊以上才列入文物阿那這個T-shirt有3000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6526.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6546.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
有一個但書就是有其他的紀念價值其他紀念價值那這個馬英九的紀念冊他的紀念價值為什麼沒有任何機關肯典藏呢?包委員這個部分我們再來努力努力接洽看看再來努力其實你們這些做這些目錄我是因為都依法在做那我是希望你們這目錄實在是太 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6547.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6568.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
太簡陋了雖然你們的這個設置要點你們的這些要點裡面就是規定這樣但其實你們給省建委員的看的這些目錄裡面他都有照片他都有來源他有這個這個這個但是你們所公布出來註銷的公告裡面卻沒有照片沒有他的履歷都沒有都沒有公告所以才讓我拿的說為什麼牛舌餅放10年才註銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6570.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6587.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對,這我們可以改進就是也要把這個揭露好,你們檢討一下那個設置的要點這個相關公告讓民眾瞭解我們為什麼註銷為什麼馬英九紀念冊沒有人要這個要讓民眾知道好不好好,謝謝委員好,謝謝沈委員,謝謝陳館長接下來有請謝委員榮屆蔣委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6609.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6617.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
主席我請彭明安秘書長及吳教席秘書長有請潘秘書長、吳秘書長兩位秘書長辛苦了彭秘書長我聽我出名的講你是新發哥中士還會有人跟我說你是台南里中士 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6636.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6637.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
蛤? |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6637.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6637.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
凍結了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6637.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6641.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
你覺得我一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6641.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6644.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以台南立法院你有凍結就對了? |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6644.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6646.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
沒有喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6646.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6663.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我知道委員是南立法院的及立法院的委員很多啦,南立法院很多人。 今天是這樣喔,因為你來得很好,你跟吳秘書都很客氣, 所以人家說鄉群不斷撤民營, 那就來了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6666.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6690.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我對於老總統的他在這個無償的用途及謹慎度這我是很有信心所以主席我的提案我會把它撤掉在那個無償的部分因為我們的主任有看很多你們裡面有比較不合理的我是建議每一個人都很辛苦人民的費過錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6693.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6704.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
但是必要要開的還是要開的這個我會給你們支持那麼在國安團隊裡面我先請教這個吳秘書長因為過去的老總統在美國很方便因為美國對我們國是很重要我看你們剛才這樣在台灣及中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6721.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6730.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我有人想向總統府建議一下在這差那沒意義啦現時你就是中華民國的總統府府長嘛因為你的台灣國還沒建立阿台灣國跟中華民國這牛跟馬就毫無關係咧凍這錢沒意義啦這是無的行為所以以前我們外國部長你跟我府長來接國安團隊我們也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6752.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6760.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
在這個美國對咱國啊 有這個對羅總統的懷疑人不是現在比較有的韓國阿黨啊那麼在我離空開始咧 羅總統來動用你做秘書長咧 我想這有很多來無啦 羅總統也積極在建立美國在這的官德 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6777.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6787.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
但我個人看到說他的出訪的安排及你及他的親密度,不太夠。這點你可以跟本席說明一下,在美國這部分,羅總統要建立新的團隊,你有參與在來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6795.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6818.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
非常謝謝委員剛剛的質詢那有關於委員所提出來的這個依賴論這個是中國方面所丟出來的就我們在跟美方在這種交往的過程當中美方對賴總統是有充分的信任我們跟美方的這個溝通完全沒有障礙另外委員剛剛也有問到過境我請教你美國對 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6820.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6831.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
落盡的安排是非常好的這不能同時這樣子比但是我可以跟你說對兩個的信賴度都很高我很清楚,對兩個的信賴度都很高你有沒有感覺這個國安團隊在5月2日上午的時候有需要調整嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6849.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6856.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
國安的團隊、省委員?國安的省委員就是說如果說有隨時要擔任的位我相信總統會配合老總統就對了最近就是馬雍成資訊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6869.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6889.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
他是因為那個力量非常的充分啊所以行政院這邊就希望他能夠到行政院那邊去做所以這樣子的那個協調用以來救這個行政議長不是這樣子講就是說人需要到哪裡去做最好的這個採檢我來講這真正好機啊馬英雄下來這好機這樣好你請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6900.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6901.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6907.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6935.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
要用更大的民主啦齁你有沒有了解老總統什麼叫做更大的民主?感謝委員齁,我相信剛才委員給這個提案這個議帳的博文一條特別給你感謝啊蔣委員呢,人家都說我今天不敢叫就用蓋線的這案沒有在冒齁因為這是議事黨齁因為你在社會大家都對你阿默博文很強調尤其你的你的你的口才真好啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6936.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6941.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我剛才我第一次解釋就是說我跟那個吳秘書長都是總統的幕僚所以基本上總統交代什麼事情我們會去照、會去做、合調所以基本上合作不宜這沒問題我不會去懷疑啊另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6951.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6967.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
剛才說到比較大的民主在總統因為過去可能每天都不一樣因為我們用比較大的民主的情緒就是合法、合憲的當中不排除任何的可能我們尊重行政要學義嗎?尊重日本的黨團要學憲嗎?你對他還不瞭解齁我這裡跟你講齁你在李鴻19年讓總統出來挑戰蔡英文總統那個初選 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6978.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7003.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
你表現到有情有義,坦白講我真心想就說做人啊齁,小廳,沒怕供款啦,沒威脅。在冬季時蔡英文總統在地上民進黨來一直會擁護、會執行他。你可以一路陪伴六千隻,走過那個最艱難,在那你沒退縮了。我們南部的孩子有這種個性是 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7006.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7025.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
合理啦,但是老總統也對你非常氣重。今天你給你危機高潼,我是認為說你要提到最後,像早上這個標判,你等於在把老兄弟踢出手了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7027.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7037.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
黨團這種動作是不應該的,你又如何?當然你應該可以事先講一下,不然做到這麼難看今天是你秘書長你找這個7個人他來跟拜會這已經沒有個人什麼問題了這7個就是你包罵出來嘛今天你針對你判明我們秘書長其實是針對辣青條總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7054.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7072.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
在民進黨總統我個人 在倫理上我認為這種做法是不吉這可以說的 要不要過也不用做到這麼粗魯 我們才不會說所以 我在說這個最大的民主 以老總統的個性 我在這裡 你可以回去請教的 你如果說在食糧界在說 你最大的民主 他有提出 不知道敢不敢是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7083.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7092.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
他最大的民主就請求他在台南市長的時候,為了要對抗台南市議會234天市長不要進來議會,讓他完蒙所以未來是不是會做先行政議長,沒有要進來比順,會這樣嗎?這就是他同期時,他改定的就是他民主要來對抗五金 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7108.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7125.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我估計委員報告不至於這樣也不會啦,所以民主主席說大概就在奉釋,好來啊這樣就對了啦,但是法官的部分,你們說合理沒合理,我幫你選一個比如日本韓國也一樣,15個他不是過半,不是過半 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7131.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7151.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管．一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管．一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管．一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管．一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管．一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管．一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管� |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7160.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7183.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這勞政宜也好,其他六個也好那麼未來不管在兩個月來,個半月什麼時候你要提出我請教你勞政宜你可以再提名嗎?呃,給委員報告,這不是我可以做主因為我告訴你這個選擇就是說總議席還要透過省縣小府知道我有沒有人推薦或自薦你也可以推薦啦是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7190 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7202.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我沒有管理推薦,我不是法改的人沒有管理推薦,國改都可以推薦優秀的人,國改都可以推薦他也有自薦的啦我是認為說在做拼圖、在做騎一騎,要怎麼修補不然因為你們黨的執政六個多月啦不好一個國家黨開始就這樣亂啦尤其是我國民黨在你黨反對是天經地義啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7219.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7246.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
但是你靠你民進黨自己的人在把自己的總統提出的時候這是不會通嘛所以我建議你再多提名撈正義但是你民進黨不可以反對那麼其他理性探討提名出來的運算在立法院都可以大家公開討論那麼透過這班的不同意也可以各董各主反省 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7247.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7262.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
要怎麼讓整個的司法院、大法官會議可以順利?要怎麼讓意識形態不用這麼強烈在這裡對抗?我想...譬如說...這是你的男朋友對不對?我最後一個問題比較謹慎的問你因為這段時間我對你有一點點的批評就是說...針對大金人這個人數因為... |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7277.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7293.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
大家搞不好懂,我是直接認為是你推薦,所以我批評你就是說你對老總統這樣回收了這種的傷害是不合理啦因為他過去有這樣的情形,啊既然推薦了推薦了,啊後果了後果了,失戒了失戒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7295.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7309.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
對於這種人事,因為我個人對辣青帝的了解,我坦白說,我認為他讓你這麼多的管理,讓你來協助他,來經理國務,我認為在這個英人的推薦,這一點,我認為,若是這個事情,我對這個流行性的事情,我有對你做一些批評。 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7322.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7329.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
當然不用介意本來大家我們就是接受公勤嘛我認為說在以後你的管理這麼大的經營我最近有聽到說對行政的一些事務你的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7340.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7344.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
有更多事看,我不知道這個消息是怎樣,因為這個大家要講得清楚,比較不用誤會啦。好,感謝委員,會知道我相信對立法院的批判、公平,這都是一個我們要檢討反省,有的是不是屬性啦。比如說這個盧正中這個臨時呢,過去因為大家在找人,各自有很多的推薦,我因為過去的實際裡面, |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7367.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7389.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
在這個地區幫冰凍很多農產品的幫忙,在這個地方我對它的能力很慶幸。所以我覺得這個未來如果農政部門可以來到,但是因為農政部門沒有,所以也沒有人來應徵替客人去待經營。這個不是存錢的,當時就說那個是外大,那個是在處理不良主善,所以這個能力絕對沒問題,但 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7391.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7400.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我們比較不細理就是說不知道他的家族有什麼問題他不會說我們這個我們不可能說啊我跟這兩位委員他的家族怎麼樣我們才有可能去問因為他的家族我同期是有跟你們來報件他會說那個事件對婚姻假期 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7409.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7429.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
一代那些農民很傷心嗎?坦白講,我們不知道啦。所以說這點要跟委員報告。第二,我們都是真心情的人啦。你說,現在行政會有行政會的制度、體系,我們怎麼可能要存進去?我們只不過是在,有時候跟行政委員會有時候開會。大家的婦嬰的這個對話很順暢,但沒有什麼去指揮或是伸進去的。第一,體制也沒有合法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7436.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7450.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
憲政體制自己也要顧,我們又在公佈門出來知道現在叫做憲政體制及分寸因為老總統對過去被當的執政本身也不滿意他是希望來救這個國家希望可以讓民進黨比較正常一點這是我們坦白說他的想法不能說他不對所以要辦一些閉案在辦這些閉案的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7465.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7475.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們也期待說不要再造成新的高級高級的集團出來這點是我個人在這探議我們大家互相勉勵好不好好謝謝謝謝委員感謝蔣議員感謝彭博士對接下來有請莊委員瑞雄發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7499.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7520.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
謝謝主席,有請我們總統府秘書長請潘秘書長委員長好我想在上個禮拜五在立法院這個院會處理的一個選罷法還有才化法最重要的還有限訴法 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7521.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7543.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我看總統賴總統他也有對外來做一個回應有一句話我想我特別有感他提到的就是說我看我就講那個重點好了他說守護憲政制度然後手段是用更大的一個民主是不是請潘秘書長可以人家講我比較清楚說老總統在講的講更大的一個民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7544.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7553.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
他的爭議到底是什麼以現在來看的話一般民眾第一個的想法就是說啊你就發了通過你就不同意啊你覺得這不好啊就提出復議嘛這第二項嘛第二項就是事先嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7560.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7586.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
大家的想法是說更大的民主常常會想到第一個就是說會不會是動用到憲法的覆決然後有公投的方式不曉得秘書長可以再做一個說明是感謝委員給我做一個說明那我想總統發表這樣的言論就是因為這整個過程不是一個在合憲合法程序上大概有部分不同的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7587.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7607.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那所以我們在合憲合法的情況之下的大前提來進行更民主的方式所謂民主程序的方式比如說這個行政院的附屬權與否事憲與否或是這個公佈與否那這些都必須在合法的前提之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7608.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7624.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那甚至呢現在沒剛剛早上又有委員提到什麼要用公投與否這些都是外界的揣測那我想更大民主更是未來累積更大的能量來下一次能讓國會的改選能夠讓大家有更 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7624.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7653.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
更大的席次來讓整個國會的生態來改變這些也都是選項之一包括公告、附屬與否、制限與否這些都是民主程序更大的民主程序之一那未來我們都會再用這樣的方式在合憲合法的前提之下跟委員來做報告這樣說就更清楚了但是既然是用守護憲政的制度的話他的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7654.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7678.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我相信就可能就比較不是採取去讓外界認為是違背憲政制度的一個方式了你像比如說我們在憲法37條裡面規定行政院長他你說他沒有去附屬的話這個法律沒有辦法去做一個公佈那或者說總統按照憲法第72條立法院法律通過以後就移送總統跟行政院那總統應該在10天內來公佈那總統也可以選擇不公佈的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7683.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7688.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我再次追問就是說不附屬或者說不公布這兩個方式應該不會是選項吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7690.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7712.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我想不公布不會是選項因為這個總統是憲法的職權賦予的憲法所負責所以會按如現來公布那至於公布之前是否行政院有賦予與否或是有附屬與否那這些我們必須尊重行政院那所以總統會如期來公布但是公布前必須我們說到這個文之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7714.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7738.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那整個是否在行政院或立法院黨團是否有提事宪或是有所謂的各種行政救濟手段與否這個我不知道但總統會如期公佈總統如期公佈這當然都是合憲但是啊剛剛秘書長提到說行政院長到底會不會附屬就沒有講得很清楚啦我本席總統有要求會 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7741.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7758.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
本席倒是認為,你像譬如說在修憲之前行政院長的附屬權即使他的目的是在制衡續院所總統的存在而不是阻礙國會立法的一個機制所以我倒認為說行政院長到最後他也不得不附屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7763.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7783.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
剛剛國民黨的委員其實這陣子也一直在強調說啊整個憲法法庭這大法官不尊重民意我每一次聽到這句話的時候啊我都聽到我們比較藍白的孩子在說的我聽到就被悔了就是說憲法法庭的大法官他其實在內心啊他在意的倒不是什麼民意不民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7784.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7797.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
國民黨或者藍跟白他一直認為說大法官沒有民意基礎啊為什麼這15個人可以操縱生死啊可以把整個立法院這麼大的民意通過的法律就把它解釋成到最後是違憲大法官三個職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7805.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7826.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
1解釋憲法2統一解釋法律及命令3哪怕位高權重具備中華民國最高民意基礎的總統及副總統他都可以彈劾所以大法官哪有什麼民意基礎不民意基礎的一個問題大法官其實他是基於整個司法獨立他依法審判就這麼簡單就這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7831.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7844.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
你像比如說我們這個行政部門送過來的那總統府算也是最高的一個憲政機關之一除了五院包括總統府那立法院哪怕是把這些總預算全部都退回了 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7845.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7861.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
按照我們整個預算法54條的規定除了你的新興資本支出還有這個新增的一個計劃你如果是你說全部我都把你退回掉那像上個年度以獲授權的或者上年度的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7863.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7875.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
實行數都可以按照那個數目去做一個凍資這個核心價值就在談一個就是說任何憲政機關都是基於對國家負有忠誠的一個義務問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7878.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7886.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
立法院去把整個憲法法庭該如何去做整個案件的一個審理你門檻把它拉這麼高這很明顯就是立法權去要把整個司法權把它給架空你要癱瘓整個憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7895.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7915.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這被迫讓我們的司法機關啊他沒有辦法來對這個國家復起一個忠誠的義務什麼忠誠義務人民的訴訟權啊所以本席到這樣建議我們潘秘書長可以好好的去思考一下在整個執政團隊裡面可以做一個思考你說我在我們現在啊現在系屬在 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7919.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7941.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我們憲法法庭的案件裡面138件138件中有120件是屬於人民的申請案件本席認為申請者是非常適合用本次修正的條文來作為暫時的一個處分這第一個我們的現在老百姓就有辦法做到那另外就是說你人民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7943.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7964.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
人民的訴訟權因為立法院你像比如說系署在這整個憲法法庭裡面的這120件是屬於我老百姓的讓我老百姓因為你立法院把我把憲法法庭的整個審議的門檻把它提高了以後當中我的案件沒有辦法獲得憲法法庭來10個大法官的一個評議 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7965.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7986.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我這老伯想我們就回家抱著棉被褲所以憲法法庭其實本席的見解是說不帶申請根本就不用總統府申請根本就不用立法院申請也不用行政院申請大法官本來他就是整個憲法的守護神在這120件裡面本來就可以程序先行我為什麼這樣講就是說從過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7993.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8013.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
從過去如果說我們看待過去過去在大法官在大審法時代啊他透過自己的解釋程序法來替各級的法院去開啟申請釋憲的門本來喔在我們大審法第5條申請憲法解釋跟他試款中央政府人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8014.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8031.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
立法院、最高法院及刑事法院並沒有各級法院可是呢大法官就告訴我一、你們各級法院的法官碰到你這個審理案件的時候法律到底是不是有違背憲法你可以裁定停止來向我申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8032.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8052.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
大審法也沒有這樣的規定啊大法官就主動出擊啊所以呢這個案件在本席看來根本都不需要釋憲釋憲當然是一個方式啊所以反而是啊透過這樣的一個諮詢台啊我也向我們的憲法法庭的大法官來做一個呼籲啊在細數憲法法庭的這120件裡面啊本來就是程序先行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8053.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8057.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
你大法官總不能講說,哎,啊沒辦法,你把你那個夭壽啊,把他整個全部都憲法門檻把我,審議案件的門檻把我提高以後,讓我動彈不得,現在只剩下8位,啊我評議就要10位,所有你們這,你們這120件,回去回去都不要來。那這樣大法官就失去他憲法保護神對國家忠誠的一個義務啊。所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8078.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8105.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我來看看在200在2004年4至572號裡面他也講得很清楚啊甚至於4至590號講得很清楚啊法官在審理各該案件包含非送數件非送事件的時候都可以裁定先停止過去在大審法裡面哪有這個規定沒有啊所以憲法法庭的法官他本來啊他對於法庭審理訴訟法的合憲性啊這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8107.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8114.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
一個先程序問題啊他應該要先行啊在大法官4-601號裡面啊他認為啊他認為如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8120.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8130.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這樣的一個提高門檻或者任何去阻礙到整個憲法明文規定的釋憲制度會變成形同大法官對行使憲法上職權的一個拒絕那這個就違背了法治國家分權的一個基本的憲政秩序所以我藉這個機會也請潘秘書長在整個執政團隊裡面也可以去做一個思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8146.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8173.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
因為現在在憲法法庭裡面就有120件這120件裡面人民對憲法法庭本來就是在憲法老百姓擁有的一個訴訟權裡面我對憲法法庭有所期待那怎麼會因為立法院因為藍白連鎖多數把整個憲法法庭的一個審判案件的一個程序門檻把它拉高以後讓系屬在憲法法庭這件案件都無從審理這是不對的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8174.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8183.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我們也期許憲法法庭的大法官在整個程序先行部分在這120件裡面可以先去像以往一樣做出突破這個才是大法官身為一個憲法的一個守護神然後去守護人民訴訟權他該做的他應該有那個勇氣去做一個突破也讓秘書長做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8198.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8204.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
現在有一部分的目前的有憲法學者是有這樣的論述跟委員的論述是一樣的這個假油啦,我是覺得這個不去就說立法院是什麼的這個要求大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8212.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8237.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
要尊重民意啊什麼的大法官的概念裡面沒有什麼叫做尊重民意的只要是人啊只要是有受過民主法治的洗禮心目中當然會有民意嘛但重點就是說憲法法庭的大法官他本來就是會去回應國民的法律感情可是當他在獨立依法獨立在做出審判的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8238.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8251.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
他心目中想的是他整個司法的一個獨立然後到底有沒有辦法維護整個憲政秩序的一個運行所以這要是有改啦要是有改啦有有會啦會朝這個方向來努力齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8254.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8254.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8282.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8290.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
謝謝莊委員謝謝潘秘書長稍後在陳委員峻宇詢答完畢後休息5分鐘接下來我們請吳委員私要發言謝謝主席有請潘秘書長請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8308.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8318.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
密莊早大家辛苦了台灣正面臨民主的政變憲政的危機到底有解無解台灣社會都在問下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8319.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8346.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
作為執政黨我們執政黨團我們也多次的對外預告在野黨在做的是擴權上個會期推了國會擴權法案第二步是搶錢不斷的提出非常多的錢坑法案之外又通過了才化法挖空了中央的財源沒收民權對準的是選罷法摧毀憲法就是我們現在在善後的憲法訴訟法的惡修以及人事同意權大法官被癱瘓了 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8348.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8366.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以這些都是民主政變的現在進行式。下一頁我以法案回應到法案違憲的法案有這麼多民進黨團已經針對三個惡修的法案憲訴法以及選罷法我們提起進行事件的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8368.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8384.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我要請您看的是違憲親中亂政乾坑法案當中跟總統府權限大有相關的我要請總統府預先去準備親中法案當中的國家安全戰略法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8385.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8401.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這個是國民黨團透過國家安全戰略法的立法要把總統的國安全受制於立法院請問總統府有沒有針對這樣一個又是立法院的擴權而且把手 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8402.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8415.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
之前是升到司法院升到監察院現在是堂而皇之把立法院的政黨的黑手升到總統的國家安全的統一的權限總統府有沒有預先因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8417.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8435.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好謝謝委員的指導我想委員辛苦了這段時間不管是任何法案的推動或預算審查委員所率領的黨團大家都很辛苦在這邊特別代表自謝那同時在剛剛所提到的國家安全戰略法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8435.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8460.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
目前我們國安會國安局大概也密切的關注那也針對這些草案的內容來去做分析我們目前大概智庫上也去做討論了包括反正滲透法的修正案等等那同時這個也會敦請行政院未來在相關的一些國家安全戰略的一些管 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8460.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8486.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
方式能夠提新的一個法案來未來通過大院的協助能夠通過之後未來對於我們台灣怎麼確保在國家安全戰略不單只是這個只是這個軍事而已還有很多國防國防以外還有很多的經濟戰略上包括科技產業的怎麼樣來做一個管制我想這些我們都有密切的注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8486.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8510.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
謝謝秘書長的回答我要再次提醒就國家安全戰略法他是一個全新的立法他要求行政院未來每年向立法院進行總預算的報告時候針對國家安全相關的預算要進行完整的報告揭露也要求行政院要提出國家安全戰略的總計畫而且要送立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8511.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8538.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這是一個非常危及總統職權而且他是一個全新的立法我請你們全面要做好因應未來民進黨團當然在立法院會全面捍衛國家安全好謝謝下一頁三大惡法通過之後我想今天非常多的委員都垂詢民進黨團針對選罷法跟限訴法已經進行釋憲的準備才化法的部分下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8539.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8562.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
下一頁下一頁我一直說這個法可以改名了只管收入不管支出錢下放權沒有一併的來移轉所以他就改名叫做財政收入劃分法了您來自於屏東縣我們的總統賴清德來自於台南下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8563.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8592.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這麼多的縣市首長這樣一個二修之後變成國民黨執政的縣市吃香喝辣民進黨執政的縣市們大家嗷嗷待哺喝西北風我看到黃偉哲看到陳其邁市長包括周春米縣長都針對修法的不公不義提出了批判這個部分就交於秘書長您來自南台灣國境之南怎麼樣來提出你們的看法解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8593.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8619.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
謝謝委員的關心那我想這一點這個二修的裁判法根本沒有賦予在裁判法修正只是要錢那沒有科目空有收這個錢但沒有科目這不符合預算的一個相關的指引另外第二個分配的不均導致城鄉差距越大以屏東縣我的家鄉為言是全國分配最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8619.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8635.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
而且人之初以一個平均人的得到是全國倒數第二極其不公平對於過去縱北青藍包括整個城鄉軍人對屏東縣民而言更是不公所以我們對於這一部裁劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8636.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8641.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
目前只是搶錢但沒有把一些應盡的義務與責任只是錢錢但沒有把這些地方支出怎麼樣尊爵開支怎麼樣應盡的義務與責任等等這些都完全沒有任何的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8652.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8652.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
好! |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8668.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8673.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
總統府也會尊重行政院對裁划法提出復議案的準備。也謝謝立法院黨團對於裁划法、限訴法、議後選罷法三大法的立法過程大家辛苦。同時也尊重立法院黨團的釋憲暫時處分與否包括行政院等我們基本上都尊重也謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8692.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8715.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好那我下一個主題喔就是三大委員會的成立那這是領導台灣的具體行動下一頁但當我們看到國際社會都肯定總統府成立尤其是以全社會的防衛任性我們看到美方有特別的大大的給予肯定這不只是守護台灣更是捍衛台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8716.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8732.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
在這個Peacemaker的角度、角色在印太地區扮演更積極的國際參與下頁國際肯定在野黨當然就只能為攻擊而攻擊他們所說的跌床架屋侵害行政院的權責說的黑機關完全都不成立下頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8737.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8765.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
因為我們有清楚的法源依據中央行政機關基準法28條機關組成任務編組這就是具體的法律授權更何況馬英九擔任總統的時候他甚至要修中華民國總統府的組織法更要去做編預算增援額的新任組織的是馬英九的任內要做的來這個部分你是不是說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8765.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8783.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
是,我想第一個從法院依據這個委員會是任務邊組法院依據除了按照中央行政機關組織基本法以外那也不用這是怎麼要點在阿扁總統陳前總統也設置了科技諮詢委員會甚至論壇馬前總統更是設計設立了4個這個委員會及論壇那蔡前總統一樣賴總不能輪到賴總統做 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8793.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8804.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
又禁止他設立這個任務編組第一個不會增加人力也不會增加很多的預算我想每一個人總統有他的新的思維希望能夠未來引領國政的發展的綱領那我想這些也經過充分三大委員會的討論目前已經開了七大場還有二十幾場的分組討論等等那未來在明年度又有這個十二大場 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8820.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8839.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
甚至要進行兵推演練那針對剛剛委員所提示的全民防衛任性的部分除了美國肯定歐盟肯定以外北約國家上個禮拜也特別對台灣這樣感到興趣他們也同時北約國家也希望能提供他們的經驗分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8840.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8846.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
他們也提高全社會任性的一個提升分享這樣的經驗我想這個是未來不管台灣面臨的這種多地震多颱風或是疫情極端氣候的變遷從救災救難從平時到暫時但很遺憾部分媒體把它扭曲部分人把它扭曲了可是名利 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8865.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8889.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
他不是民兵是民力我相信我們跟很多宗教團體如慈濟佛光山基督教長老教會一貫道等這些都是可是在救災救難的時候的民力他們不是民兵所以呢很多人刻意把他扭曲甚至是批評黑箱機關那我認為新的總統有他新的作為我相信我們都應以尊重但我們會尊絕開支謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8890.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8911.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
西安秘書長的統合說明他不是黑機關因為有法源對不對馬英九時期也做我們看下一頁所以說從李登輝陳水扁馬英九到蔡英文四任總統均有任務編組的設立以蔡前總統年改新南向思改 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8911.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8940.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
還有原住民族的轉型爭議委員會這些都有非常清楚的任務編組然後也扮演了在關鍵時刻改革國家因應國際局勢跟國家需求的重要的一個功能下一頁但我有一點點跟您研議就是說交換一下意見當然我知道您目前您剛也說是不是要有設置要點其實也不需要因為我們已經有一個法源但是這是我整理出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8941.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8956.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
李登輝的國統會然後再來馬英九有4個任務編組他一個有設置要點陳水扁總統有5個有設置要點那小英總統有5個任務編組有設置要點下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8958.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8962.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我認為,我個人認為有設置要點是讓我們可以更健全更有利其實站在國會監督的角度我可以針對你們的人員產生性別主流化有沒有貫徹他扮演的任務是不是能夠更扣合著國家發展的需要我拋出這樣子的一個建議我認為如果有設置要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8981.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8988.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
也許也是一個正面的事物我覺得我拋給你們,我們一起來研議,好嗎?好,謝謝,謝謝委員的提示好,再用時間,好,謝謝好,謝謝潘秉長,謝謝吳委員接下來有請陳委員、俊宇發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9007.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9035.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
好謝謝主席那我們今天各位列席的首長齁還有所有同仁大家早有請我們潘秘書長請潘秘書長我們今天要審查的是總統府還有國安會及國使館的相關單位的預算齁那也是本委員會難得有機會就各單位所推動的政務來就教於各位首長齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9036.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9065.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那首先我想就總統府所負責的這個幕僚業務結合近期時事來和秘書長做討論我想請教秘書長就是有關總統府在這個月初接連爆發出兩個國安洩密的案件包括注鎖在211營的這個憲兵翻拍機密以及負責總統維安的這個警官洩密的行程不管是共諜滲透或是叛國的行為都對國家和總統的這個安全造成極大的這個危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9065.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9085.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那特勤中心雖然隸屬國安局但是總統府侍衛長依法兼任副指揮官可能還涉及到總統府侍衛室之間的這個指揮權責的問題那除了司法偵查之外對於我們這次國安泄密案府方是否也有後續的這個調查懲處及缺失的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9087.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9108.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
跟委員報告我謝謝委員關心我想對於洩密案的後續調查及懲處都在檢方我想我們基於偵查不公開那這個部分我們就不做說明那另外在偵查部分另外這個案程的過程是由我們在市會室的同仁自己發覺事情不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9110.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9134.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
來舉報那舉報之後我們按照法定程序那目前的市會是也加強了這個很多的一個情教等等包括後續的防備措施那包括在針鋒處也移情那除了是憲兵以外警官以外呢那在都在地檢署裡面的處理那國安的部分我們會來強化管理那另外這個謝謝委員的詮詢剛剛這個這個總統總統府作為中共攻擊目標的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9139.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9158.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我們從資料上看去年一整年總統府被網攻駭客攻擊每個月大概有700萬件700萬次那今年我們到11月底平均每個月最起碼有690幾萬次的這種網路攻擊及駭客的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9163.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9178.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
簽錄,這可以說是無所不用其極所以我們也特別提請大院能夠支持我們未來強化AI資安的防禦效力以及在整個資安設施設備的提升因為過去很多的資安設備包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9179.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9201.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
從總統府周遭的這個監控系統已經用了十幾年了8年多了那它法定是6年就要淘汰了甚至很多的資安設備基本上是已經不復實入了所以我們目前這次提請大院總統府預算裡面把這些資安設施設備甚至在DDROS立法院所關注的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9202.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9210.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
公集每個月大概也差不多有大概一兩千個公集所以包括異地備處的安全資料符合321的原則甚至有不同的系統的儲存這個部分謝謝委員的垂尋關心這個部分我們也會來強化未來在整個國安立法的部分我們也敦請國安會、國安局未來在行政的提案裡面能夠也未來強化這部分的一個管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9233.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9246.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
總統府事會室也已經做相當的一個處置未來會強化這個請教好謝謝秘書長接連的那個回覆了那因為後面我要垂詢的就是針對我們總統府這次也編列了1.32億的這個資安基礎環境創新升級的這個計畫那這個計畫剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9254.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9272.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
聽我們秘書長已經大概有一個這個回答方向那我也希望說這個經費我們未來在這個執行的時候一定要落實以確保我們國家的這個安全不管是這個總統的維安還有相關的資安問題一定要做一個落實的一個維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9273.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9299.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
委員我其實齁坦白講就是說我看齁他們每一年我今年在看那個預算齁都分了3年4年5年齁其實坦白講這種資安齁與時俱進啦如果大院能夠支持呢我會敦請我們總統府下一次呢一次到位齁把它整個改變齁不用每一年像切香腸一樣但因為預算預算額度的問題啦所以這個部分要拜託大院能夠支持好謝謝秘書長那秘書長您先請回那我請吳秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9304.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9322.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
來吳秘書長好秘書長午安吼另外一個問題我想請教我們國安會是關於接下來美國總統即將交接在這個政權過渡期間我們看到中國對台灣的這個動作依舊是變本加厲那秘書長這個月在 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9322.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9349.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這個哈德遜研究所演講的時候也表示那升高局勢緊張的這種行動在近幾個月非常的明顯中共政權持續利用各種藉口來建立新的這種常態派出這個軍機闖入台灣的防空識別區跨越台海中線發動大型的這種軍演來威嚇台灣那中共也確實在今年的5月還有10月分別進行聯合立見的這個A及B的這個軍事演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9351.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9368.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
並且在賴總統上個月底出訪太平洋友邦後更有大批的共建包圍第一島鏈那雖然沒有宣布軍援但聯合立建這個2024C是否實質存在秘書長您怎麼觀察非常謝謝委員的這個詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9371.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9398.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那的確是在12月8號9號左右我們開始在看到那個中國的軍艦在集結那等到10號11號的時候看到他們也宣布那個在他們沿岸有一個那個航空的保留區那我們看到他們所做的這個演訊的確是我所親身看過的最大的這個演訊我從2016年開始接受那個國防部的這些資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9399.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9419.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那從來沒有看過這麼大的海上兵力的集結而且這一次的這個兵力的集結是包括北部戰區東部戰區和南部戰區那他所包圍的這個地區包括東海台海南海還有在西太平洋地區那看起來第一島鏈的國家都受到影響了吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9419.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9436.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那也因為這樣子的關係我們跟那個一些理念相近國家的這個夥伴也都做了非常緊密的這個協調希望能夠了解中國的這個動機第一個就是說他們的這個規模我們是沒有看過的非常龐大的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9437.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9465.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那這個規模是需要長時間的準備至少至少需要兩個時間兩個月的這個時間來做準備那第三個是在冬季通常他們的那個全軍戰略演習結束之後通常不再做大規模的演習可是他們在冬季也呈現出他們這個演習的這個成果所以在這種很複雜的這個狀況之下我們的確是看到他們大規模的動員的演訓那這個看起來就像是一次演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9466.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9474.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那如果我們回頭過去看10月的那個2022的演習他們的空軍是有史以來最大規模的151架次 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9477.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9506.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那這一次的海軍那個所呈現的這個燒刺以及他動員的這個規模的確是我們看過所最大的一個規模所以這次的演習不管他們有沒有這個演習的名稱這個就是一個他們的海上大規模的演訓好這我們最主要我們要預防的就是未來像這種軍演是不是中共他就是在卸防我們國人對於這種軍演未來習慣之後大家民眾會產生無感 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9507.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9520.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
對,所以這個部分要請我們國安單位一定要這個緊密的這個監控我們都會緊密的那也要持續的提醒民眾是,那也跟委員講一下就是說我們擔心的齁之前擔心的是他們有眼轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9522.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9544.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
就是演習然後就開始攻打那這個是我們預防的可是他這一次是演訓那以前我們也擔心說由訓轉演由演轉戰可是現在看起來或許他們有這個能力由訓直接就轉戰所以我們的國安單位包括我們的國防部都在緊盯這個事情我們會很小心處理好這部分再請秘書長再持續觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9546.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9573.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
對中共發動這種軍演經常伴隨的藉口接下來這個國際焦點又會在這個美國總統交接那假使明年這個1月20號我們我國的這個參訪團跟這個川普總統就職典禮的時候如果有這種高層的接觸的這種交流是不是又會挑動中共的一個敏感神經進一步採取軍事行動來恫嚇我們台灣有沒有可能我認為是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9574.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9591.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那以前我也參加過美國總統的就職是在2005年那時候我是陸委會的主委那時候的狀況就是說這種不是說在非常進入到那個核心區的一個參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9592.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9621.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
所以那個去參與的這個狀況可能不是像我們去邦交國的這種就職典禮是所以在這種狀況之下的話我相信中國那邊的反應應該是不會很劇烈才對好另外一個問題我想就叫這個秘書長是就是我們這幾天黨團的這個柯總召還有王逸川委員都遭到這個抖音上面這個造假身為影片的這個變造加以散播不死的這種言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9622.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9649.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那一是來自這個境外的這種深圍影片是否有攻擊特定政治人物的一個趨勢您認為我們是有看到那個深圍這個情況的這種升高那有關於這種狀況我們國安單位都在關注當中那如果有的話我們會適時提醒那委員剛剛也提到那個抖音或者是TikTok那中國透過這個抖音 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9651.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9665.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
去利用他的algorithm就是他計算的這個方式而且會去擷取個人的資料個人的喜好等等的這些對國安來講都有可能有疑慮針對這些事情我們也都在討論當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9667.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9682.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那很多其他的國家針對那個抖音或者是說抖音上面可能會去呈現的是這種假影音啊或者是說身為的這種影片等等的那我們的相關單位會持續來關注這件事情要確保我們的民主體制不受這些影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9683.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9702.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好這部分也是請我們國安單位就是確實去掌握是那如何預防如何能夠把這種假的這種影片能夠避免民眾誤導這我相信這很重要也可以確保我們國家的一個安全是好以上謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳委員謝謝吳秘書長現在我們休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10454.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10479.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
好,我們繼續開會,請同仁就座好,接續我們邀請鍾嘉斌召委諮詢我們下一位諮詢羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員好,那我們繼續邀請鍾嘉斌召委諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10485.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10493.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、公共夥伴、記者、媒體女士先生有請我們總統府潘秘書長好,請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10501.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10520.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
民主黨好歡迎你回娘家我們今天的主題本來我要問總統府相關預算的部分但是前面幾位委員都問了一些跟總統府最近的一些事情有關但我就就近來請教你請問比如說你也做過民主黨管理嘛你做民主黨管理的時候是不是已經有六党啊那時候民主黨是不是有33兄弟 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10526.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10537.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
對。是不是所有縣市內的黑民的李吉政府、黑吉政府統席?對。是所有全國最多鄉鎮市的縣市。我印象中,那時候我們也是老館長你之前有這個我們的周強館長、我們的蘇嘉磚館長、還有蘇貞雄館長。我記得我們老館長在講,全台灣的縣市內,鄉鎮統席是比東關33鄉鎮。對。他說一句話叫做嘴硬的歷史背。這什麼意思? |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10558.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10568.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
意思是說一個老大人,還很小的孩子,還很辛苦,你作為屏東縣管理員有這個感覺嗎?當然啦,一個小孩五、四、八、七、八十幾歲,年齡增多多少啦。是,屏東縣的財源不好,我們的鄉庭經驗一樣,屏東縣都要照顧33鄉庭,你作為管理員覺得財政實在很辛苦,沒錯齁?沒錯。但是現在最近呢,我們這個財委法啦,財政修立技術委訓法,有人在講一句話給我加,他說呢, |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10588.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10592.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
攤是攤塞騎、騎是騎阿爹。你覺得這是什麼意思? |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10593.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10605.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
沒有錯啦,只有一個空的一個切出來這一大塊的餅但沒有負任何的這個責任比如說阿嬸是善阿爹吃就吃阿娘就意思說我們前陣子阿伯阿嬤 孩子出去吃陀螺啦炭的都做收費啦但是人家帶出來啦像這個汽車台款 老伯老夫拿來有這種情形嗎是啊所以說炭的是炭塞車 要吃是吃阿爹啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10623.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10637.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
目前我們的財政修織委員會有分兩條嘛一條通常分配款是這條給財政副委員會給你判用途?絶對有用途沒有啦,這條通常分配款是財政副委員會的嘛是是是通常分配款那像是給你做收費嘛對對對但是另外一條該當叫一般補助款嘛是一般補助款有資金用途嗎?一定有用途有嘛,要老師的薪水、要付警察的薪水、要做什麼事都有資金嘛是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10651.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10655.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
啊為什麼中央要給地方政府一半補助款是不是太變動觀?我們的財政修理還欠?所以呢我們很多項目的開銷要中央替我們負責基本支出及財稅的收入不足的部分嘛所以我們知道這次財政修理委員會他很嚴重的一個問題不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10673.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10682.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
中央及地方的分配,不然是各縣市分配不公平,中央是第30條,他說什麼?他說未來對地方的一般部署案都不能寫,意思就是說收費很容易,但是原來中央替你出的開銷都繼續打,你覺得中央及會不會陷阱? |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10692.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10695.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這絕對不會看,因為你的稅率來晚沒那麼多,還在這裡一直開,毫無止盡,沒有準確開支而且用途如果是用在原來要負擔的義務責任上那倒還可以,但如果不是用在原來的義務跟責任上所以這個法律水平這樣規定,但是很多我們文化,我們的民眾,我們南部有地域的,我們的社團就說,噢,這是賺是賺誰騎啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10717.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10719.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
總統府主管：立法院第11屆第22期司法及法制委員會第22次總統府主管．收件及法制委員會凍結項目1案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10740.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10755.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
從過去一、二年給地方政府大概五千多億現在到今年已經到一條百多億所以秘書長這是你過去老官你的身份你現在是中方秘書長但是第二項我來請教你做過我們的立法院委員你是在二項公募年及兩項應募年 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10762.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10787.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這兩任你是不是經歷過陳水扁總統跟馬英九總統對我在陳前總統跟馬英九總統那你還記得當時陳總統的時候民進黨是嘲笑野大我們那時候只有幾席只有27席加上無黨籍無黨籍的3席不算我們的啦那時候馬英九總統那時候有提名大法官有你記得那時候馬英九提名大法官的時候有沒有民進黨有沒有支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10789.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10813.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
呃,民進黨好像那次是沒有進去投票的樣子,因為27期根本起不了作用。是,所以那時候沒有投票。對。好。那,然而呢,在陳水扁的時候提名的大法官,民進黨只有27期對不對?對。那,陳總統提名的大法官有沒有通過?呃,好像...提名了兩次嘛,都有通過嘛。對。那你覺得27期可以通過嗎?是不是有在野黨支持才能通過? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10815.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10830.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
對所以說嘛本來大法院的提名總統提名的時候就會衡量國會的期次態勢那像嘲笑野大總統的提名當中就包含各種多元的不同的立場的希望能夠得到在議場支持你覺得這合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10831.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10848.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
當然啦但是呢當馬英九上台之後呢他那時候國民黨掌握81席單獨過半所以那時候這一黨非常老人數非常少就沒有進去投票一樣過對不對但是你知道嗎在馬英九提名的大法官當中有沒有不足81票的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10848.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10872.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
有有嘛表示連馬英九他當總統的時候他提名的大法官他掌握的國的絕對多數一樣有他自己的本黨的立法委員不買單不投票嘛是不是這樣接下來我們來看到2010年的時候我們也看到了賴浩敏跟蘇永青的得票少於國民黨的票而且呢民進黨是有投反對票是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10873.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10898.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好像印象中...印象是沒有錯啦因為這個有點久遠但是到了2014年2011年的時候馬英九再度提名的時候民進黨沒有進去投反對票但是國民黨一樣跑票那你要知道喔那到了蔡英文當總統的時候第9屆的時候民進黨絕對多數國民黨抵制不投票但是民進黨過半嘛過了嘛到了第10屆您覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10900.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10920.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
蔡英文總統再度提名有兩次的時候你知道那時候大法官國民黨有進來投票嗎那個時候我不在立法院所以我不知道完全沒有完全沒有所以用政黨立場來決定要不要參與大法官這個憲法機關的憲法忠誠義務的過去這兩屆就是國民黨他認為你民進黨單獨過半了他根本連進去投都不投 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10927.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10949.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
而且在馬英九當總統的時候他自己掌握的國會過半他的自己本黨的委員也沒有完全都支持國民黨的總統提名的大法官這樣講夠清楚了吧?是很清楚好謝謝現在很有時間跟你請教幾個問題請問現在有媒體說我國的前選手成為中共對台統戰的樣板你覺得會不會有這個社會觀感? |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10950.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10953.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
當然...當然現在目前的社會氛圍是有這樣的一個輿論的討論當然認同當然認同,好那你認為這樣的作為是不是已經傷害到台灣的國家地位跟國格防害國家的尊嚴如果有這樣的行為的話你覺得怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10975.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10996.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我想我們還是希望說在兩岸對等互惠平等的一個對等的一個兩岸條例有這個規定喔他說如果呢是妨礙國家住民的行為會怎樣吳斯懷條款會有處置嘛對不對你認為馬前總統這樣行為是不是跟兩岸條例這裡面已經發生了可以適用的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10998.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11024.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這個可能要那個這個主管單位來認定謝謝秘書長不介入這個部分好我們看一下那請問馬英九前總統的卸任禮遇終止了嗎目前我所知道是終止但是有一部分還是有就是說那對了我們現在審預算卸任元首的禮遇預算是編在總統府嘛是那請問馬英九總統現在前總統享受的這種准禮遇的待遇誰付錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11025.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11048.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
是國家付錢政府付錢不是嗎?不是總統府?總統府付錢總統府繼續付警政署維安人員的錢嗎?對好啦那這筆錢我們呼籲大家審查運動要注意一下一個卸任的國家總統李育已經終止了居然還要由我們的總統府繼續支付他的維安人員的安排這個我覺得總統府要三思接下來我們等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11049.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11078.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那請問卸任總統如果協助統戰我們還有義務維持他的禮遇嗎?如果他在禮遇的期限內當然他如果涉及這個所謂的犯了內亂外患罪的話而且要經過審判那你覺得如果要把比照兩岸條例不只有內亂外患比照損害國家國格跟尊嚴也加進去你支持嗎?我提醒一下你現在是民進黨總統所任命的秘書長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11079.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11100.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
目前符合卸任總統領域的剛好都是民進黨的卸任元首未來也卸任總統卸任後也是民進黨總統卸任所以簡單說現在到未來的幾年內如果有卸任總統領域我們要加嚴格的話不會是去針對其他在野黨你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11101.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11123.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
應該就是只有民進黨的卸任總統有可能遇到嘛我想國家是有典章制度的任何的法律的制定不會去看顏色啦是的很好但是我要提醒你正因為我們目前加嚴格卸任總統的禮遇條例禮遇的辦法人家不會說你是針對在野黨因為現在跟未來有可能卸任的都是民進黨趁這個時候要趕快來提出加嚴因為我們很不習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11128.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11131.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有政黨啊當自己面臨到罷免的時候才來修改選罷法把罷免門檻提高加嚴怕自己被罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11138.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11159.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
視日499號說類似這樣的一個制違起碼要下屆適用但是我們在上週由藍白聯手害怕被罷免的立委本屆當選之後急急忙忙的修改這個選罷法您覺得這樣子為了自己確保職務而去修改法律您覺得適當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11160.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11186.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我想這個社會最有公平了很好那你認為如果我們目前加嚴防止未來的卸任元首出賣國家五路國格有損國家尊嚴現在去修改這個條例是不是比較好因為現在跟未來的可能的卸任元首都是民進黨民進黨來修是不是比較有正當性我想我個人基本上是支持但是我必須尊重大院的一個協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11188.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11216.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們做人做事就這樣子自己會適用的法律加嚴加緊自己開始不要等到自己要遇到的時候呢把它放寬放鬆好我們看一下來接下來這個新聞報導理想大地案外案富坤崎引中資買地幾則新聞報導在2011年10月25日30日2022年4月5日你有沒有看過這個容量公司的董監事名單請問一下這個名單你有沒有看到富坤崎的名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11217.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11230.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
還是有看到徐某位的名字你認為不管是卸任或在職的台灣的公職人員去中國投資要不要能夠注意一點顧慮到社會觀瞻 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11232.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11245.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我想兩岸的自由貿易我想大家是一個我們基本上是樂觀但是作為公職的人更應該去注意但是這個是否有用到公務還是個人的投資行為這個必須釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11248.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11271.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這些呢還不是監察院公職人員財產申報所揭露的是媒體揭露的你認為如果有過去曾經在職的公務人員因財產申報現在就算不在原職務上被揭露出來在職期間有用自己的財產資金附中投資沒有做揭露你覺得監察院的財產申報是不是要予以追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11271.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11279.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
公職期間必須要介入必須要申報我講這個是卸任後被發現在職期間沒有被介入你覺得這個該當如何處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11281.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11307.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那這個可能監察院 很好監察院處處理我們會告訴監察院好我們來看一下中國統戰資金來台途徑透過第三國境外捐獻進來或者說透過在台的在中的台商以台商在台的企業捐款這兩種目前的法令沒辦法禁止那請問如果中國的資金透過人頭比如說介入了花園理想大地案外的路徑這種情況之下你覺得要如何去防止這個部分我請我們吳秘書長來答覆一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11311.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11319.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那個請潘兵長稍後吼稍後是中務委員好是我們講你覺得如果有這種情況該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11321.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11340.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那有關於那個中資的那個部分的話齁我們有一些那個既有的這些法律規定那我們應該是依照這些既有的法律規定來好那如果社交公知人員採訪是不是國安單位應該也要讓檢察院知道一下如果你沒有掌握這樣的資訊如果是有的話我們會很好謝謝吳秘書長謝謝好那繼續往下問齁來請問兩位秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11345.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11366.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
中國學生來臺交流不斷引發爭議啊。欸什麼呼才我們臺灣的奪冠隊叫中國臺北隊都違反了當時兩岸交流的切結書面。那麼現在呢陸委會說欸要可能嚴重的話不得再邀請來臺交流。而且呢甚至中國的媒體稱呼啊去臺灣的中山女高呢說進了盤石洞。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11367.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11376.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
經過這樣的情況之下呢馬英九基金會邀請中聖太太交流引發爭議民意調查有35.6%的人認為馬英九基金會應該負責有56.3%的認為這個法定的管制要更加的嚴格來管制統戰的網紅請問兩位秘書長你們認同這樣的民意反應嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11389 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11407.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
個人是非常的認同,尤其是兩岸的交流必須要互惠、對等,也必須要健康有序。那潘秘書長呢?一樣很好,那我們來看一下。馬英九基金會可以邀請終生來台交流,他的基金的捐贈來源為何?我們看到112年度他的捐贈收入3000,超過3000萬。113年度,這個可能日期反過來了,日期呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11414.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11427.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
110就是剛好反過來其實是增加3倍啦那我們看看這是12年到11年這樣的情況請問你們吳秘書長如果有民眾檢舉認為馬英九文教基金會的捐贈來源來自具有中國的資金請問由誰來查 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11431.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11447.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這個部分如果是有中國資金的話應該還是應該交到那個陸委會陸委會好謝謝往下看因為你好不好實質掌握基金掌控基金來統戰我們看到馬英九捐基金會捐款基金會新台灣人文教基金會馬英九勝選後政府補貼的競選經費2000多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11451.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11477.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
裡面的人物包括金浦聰後來也成立了個敦安社會福利基金會他把他競選市長的政府補助款1300多萬也放進去裡面的人有中美金但是你認為如果這兩個基金會目前還存在創辦人如果仍然是馬英九前總統都有實質掌控這樣的人到中國去做交流要不要嚴格密切注意他是否有引進中國的資金兩位秘書長請分別答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11479.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11503.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
當然是要注意了不過還是要由那個主管來審查好那潘秘書長呢好我們來看一下最後潘秘書長吳淼請回現任現代卸任的總統吳總統李毓財文前總統是不是江志明所說的他的卸任總統每月的25萬元的李毓金他只領8萬6千元剩餘的16萬通通捐做公益8年捐出了超過1500萬潘秘書長這是否屬實 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11506.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11525.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
目前大概是每月的編制是26萬多目前只領8萬6他有據文來要求餘額就是說原來在年改之後的上限之後的其餘的目前有140幾萬有指定捐給公益的用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11525.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11553.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
好,那8年來捐了很多那麼請問前副總統陳建仁今年520卸任後在這個卸任後呢他回任中央研究院特殯研究員是不是第一位主動放棄禮遇的卸任副總統是有沒有卸任的總統放棄禮遇馬英九前總統有沒有放棄禮遇目前沒有吳敦義前副總統有沒有放棄禮遇這個我要查資料連戰前副總統有沒有放棄禮遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11554.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11574.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我印象中好像沒有這個我要詳細查好那你查一下最後你查一下馬英九前總統已經過了禮遇的期限了現在還有8人的維安編制這是創下卸任總統禮遇結束後的維安這有沒有潛力基本上我可能要查一下這個有沒有潛力這涉及到你們今天的預算審議啊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11578.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11596.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好OK 那個剛剛呢那個我們人事處這裡特別提示一下喔剛剛呂副總統後來他不是用特勤他是用一般的內政部的警政署的一個維安他是用內政部的預算不是用我們總統府的錢對對對好那你們分清楚因為這涉及到我們待會的預算審的最後的結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11598.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11605.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
請總統府也可以思考一下推動修法當卸任總統副總統如果協助中國統戰應該比照退降兩岸條例取消禮遇因為這個條例是你們總統府負責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11612.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11635.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
民主黨會考慮嗎?這個跟委員報告,這個部分是內政部的處理,我們這個可能要透過內政部的提案或是委員的提案好,那另外那個題目呢,因為民主黨已經剛答覆過了,我再重述那麼請總統府要嚴格的、密切的來注意我們國家人民的公帑如果用在了卸任總統或副總統、元首、副元首的領域上應該要確保他能夠維持我國的國格跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11638.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11644.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
不能夠去審計到國家的安全。你同意吧?是。好,謝謝。謝謝班議員長。好,謝謝宗教兵趙偉吉兩位副民主黨的詢答。謝謝。好,接下來我們有請鄭振前委員。鄭振前。鄭振前不在。有請黃委員國昌。 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11677.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11679.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩有請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11686.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11713.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
委員長委員長早喔財政收支劃分法的修正引發了非常多民進黨的立委或者是縣市首長所謂的反彈那我們的中央政府我相信從最高層的總統到行政院院長都有表示過一些看法我們來回顧一下2012年的時候民進黨中央黨部召開了記者會真抱歉我們就是這麼窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11715.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11733.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
訴求中央政府不能再集權又集錢這場記者會你有參與吧?有有嘛當時您的身份是什麼?民進黨黨團的成員2012年當初你是民進黨黨團幹部的時候你們有沒有提出財政收支劃分法的修法? |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11734.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11742.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我印象中好像有提但是呢沒辦法通過因為每一個縣市的不一沒關係我們一樣一樣來你印象中有提嘛你自己提過的法案你應該記得嘛來我來幫你複習一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11747.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11765.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這是在2012年4月25號立法院的公報民主進步黨立院黨團柯建民潘孟安陳亭飛當初您的職位應該是幹事長嗎沒錯好來我們來看一下當初民進黨在野的時候所提出的財政收支劃分法我們先關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11766.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11785.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
目前引發很多討論的中央跟地方的垂直分配中央跟地方垂直分配我相信秘書長很熟啦您之前也提案要修財政收支劃分法嘛來那個時候民主進步黨黨團的版本中央跟地方的垂直分配要怎麼修還記不記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11787.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11802.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
呃這個要看過去的資料要修一定要修我到目前為止我都幫你整理出來了那個時候民進黨的主張是說所得稅本來是10%拿來做中央統籌分配款主張要到20% |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11803.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11819.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
而且增加一個直轄市要多10%那個時候只有5都現在有6都了所以按照民進黨那個時候您所提出來的版本中央統籌分配款大概要從10%到30%這是第1%第二個貨物稅的部分沒有動第三個營業稅的部分從40%到100%跟我們這一次國會所通過的法律40%到100%是不是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11833.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11862.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我想委員這個時空背景不一樣我知道時空背景當然不一樣現在目前我們中央政府總預算裡面61%都是用在六都其他非六都的限制才用了24%所用的分配現在我在跟你講的是垂直分配的問題你只要focus在你那個時候提出來的版本就好了來最後一個那個時候你們是不是還要求燕九歲81%也要列入中央統籌分配款 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11863.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11886.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
是吧這是你提出來的立法版本嗎當初的版本是這樣是沒錯所以我們把2024年國會三讀通過的法案跟2012年民主進步黨由您跟柯建民所領銜提案的法案做兩相對比啊藍秘書長你覺得這兩個版本中央統籌分配款要分給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11888.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11916.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
挖得比較多的是哪一個版本?呃...我不這麼認為齁委員我跟你報告齁不好意思喔我的請教是說這兩個版本挖得比較多的是哪一個版本因為經過12年12年前2011年對中央給地方政府不對中央給地方政府才5000億然後2024年2025年未來中央給地方政府是一兆1000多億完全不一樣我要跟秘書長講的事情齁是你的論點 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11917.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11944.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我在財政委員會啊直接問過財政部部長啊你們在談數字的時候啊因為我雖然是學法律的但是啊我是用統計的方法在研究法律啊你不要看絕對值啊母數是多少講清楚啊你佔的percentage現在中央政府給地方政府中央統籌分配款過去這8年過去這8年所佔的比例是上升還是下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11945.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11964.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
你知道嗎?對,佔國稅的比例是上升還下降?下降!我直接跟你講下降因為我全部都算完了我現在啦我只是要提醒你的注意啊當初民進黨在野的時候啊很有理想性啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11966.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11991.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
財政收支劃分法一定要修啊要不然地方政府沒有充足的財源發展建設啊所以我把民進黨在野的時候啊由您跟柯建民所領銜的修法版本我就拿出來複習大家的建議複習大家的記憶還比起來跟今年國會修的啊到底哪一個從國稅的部分拿到最後統籌分配款多啊以作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11992.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12002.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
一、二年提的版本也被否決了一、二年民進黨才40級的委員所以民進黨2016年是多數的時候為什麼不肯堅持自己在野的理想繼續拿出來呢2016年的時候民進黨過半沒有過半了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12013.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12028.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你如果還堅持2012年的理想2016年你拿你的版本出來表決當初的國會的人數比例以及還會有六都的時候整個包括一種預算的收入過去大概一兆左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12035.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12057.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
現在所有的網友都知道了啦您不用講你的標準答案人家都幫你先預想好了啦來你作為屏東縣的老縣長你知不知道縣制屏東縣每一年中央統籌分配款分多少錢目前我所知道好像是數字上我不太精準好像是200多億吧限制是多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12058.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12079.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
中央統統分配給屏東的對對對給屏東縣您作為屏東縣的老縣長應該很熟啊我我我應該看一下數字啊好像是123億啊123哦對你知道修法過了以後屏東分多少錢嗎130幾全國分配最少的我就跟你講你要把123億再加上什麼再加上134億這123億是基本支出是增加134億嘛增加是最少的增加134億嘛增加134億你滿不滿意當然不滿意你也不滿意嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12087.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12114.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以你認為屏東應該分更多嘛那當然好那這樣子就獲制共識了嘛就代表的是說從屏東的立場限制如果修法以後屏東還分太少那限制就是分更少啦那個委員屏東比其他的非六都的限制份額還要少這第一個第二個呢我們還是希望均衡台灣不是給獨厚來個限制尤其六都我相信我相信六都這樣的中央政府總預算的62%的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12117.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12144.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所有的鄉親報不平我相信全國的民眾都聽到了非常好作為屏東的老縣長就是要有這種態度就是要有這種氣魄嘛來我們繼續再往下看吼我們吶總統府有執政也有國策顧問我們大家不知道我們的執政跟國策顧問吶到底是拿來做什麼的我們的賴清德總統請他自己的舅舅當執政你覺得這是用人為財還是用人為親 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12146.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12173.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
啊我想這一點我們尊重總統的用人尊重總統的用人嘛他一定是用人為財那從你自己心裡面這個是用人為財還用人為親童資政過去你總不能因人廢言因人因黨廢言沒有沒有因為他是在基隆我對於童有基隆市慶安宮的主任委員啊我是很尊敬啊年紀這麼高了還願意當主任委員我非常尊敬啊但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12174.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12192.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
總統府的執政總統府的國策顧問那是國家的名器啊但是這是國家的名器有幾值無幾值是另外一回事啦執政跟國策顧問是國家的名器啦這個是用人為財還是用人為親你說你尊重總統我們大家都尊重總統嘛但問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12193.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12222.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
台灣是一個民主法治的社會啊台灣不是北京的極權政體啊總統所聘的資政他的標準全國人民有沒有發表意見的權利以公益社會貢獻的導向為主以童勇這樣的一個老先生他過去在基隆在親安宮也好或是在公益的表現上我相信基隆人都心知肚明也是作為基隆相關的代表的一個之一所以聘為資政 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12223.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12241.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
非常好用這樣的一個態度跟方式是是是好你說得非常好那下一位這位國策顧問呢有做假藥製造偽造罪偽藥罪判刑6個月非法賣藥2016喔這是從2011就偽藥罪喔2016非法賣藥結果這樣的人聘做國策顧問來秘書長你覺得這是用人為財嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12250.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12276.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個是社會的表率嗎這是我們國家國策顧問的標準嗎我想這個康雲碩先生是有他在地方公益的表現但至於他個人的所謂的這種11年16年20年這種相關的這個部分基本上我不大知道但我們也沒有這就是公開資訊奇怪你們在聘國策顧問的時候這個人的背景不用先查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12277.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12284.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
如果連這個都不知道就聘他當國策顧問完蛋了我們總統府的幕僚作業也太草率了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12285.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12309.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
不會啦不會欸你怎麼會說你不知道這公開資訊欸我不知道這個不是我派私家偵探去查出來的欸我怎麼知道2011這個你只要上判決稍微查一下就知道了欸賣過假藥非法賣藥賣了這麼多年這麼有名的人來你覺得聘這樣的人當國策顧問啊是不是符合總統府用人的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12311.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12328.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
呃 我 我想總統是有一套啦齁 他個人總統是哪一套現在全國人民很困惑啊你說總統有一套 總統是哪一套他已經是用人為財 這個是用人為財喔這是令全台灣社會大開眼界過去他個人怎麼樣的行為過去不重要嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12329.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12330.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
來,再下一個這個人因為性騷遲掉了資政 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12359.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12384.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
上一屆總統的時候現在又聘他為執政這個是我們總統府要給全臺灣社會的性平觀念嗎說明一下我想這個原執政後來在去年發生這樣的狀況他就辭掉了嘛對然後後來在整個調查裡面已經還了他的公道誰做了調查他們自己內部包括他們自己內部是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12387.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12401.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
來北市的勞工局也找不到具體的澄清的一個找不到具體澄清的不是啊當初說要去處理的事情是小英基金會啊小英基金會有處理嗎這個委員跟委員報告這個有舉發到台北市勞動局 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12401.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12420.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
沒有我先問你啦小英基金會自己有沒有處理這個小英基金會內部有沒有處理我不知道奇怪了你們在聘一個人當執政的時候怎麼現在大家聽起來覺得很困惑你聘國策顧問之前發生什麼事不知道聘要當執政的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12421.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12436.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
然後連小英基金會有沒有處理你也不知道基金會有他基金會運作這個我們不變智慧但公部門臺北市勞動局有去介入調查的部分我們必須尊重臺北市勞動局的介入調查我這樣講好了啦這些相關的爭議喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12438.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12462.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
在媒體上面披露了整個社會大眾在請總統出來做說明啊大家等不到說明嘛大家等不到說明嘛因為要我們總統出來接受媒體訪問是一件超級難度很高的事啦我們立法委員在國會殿堂針對人民關心的事情來對你請教嘛好下一個之前啊您在當立委的時候你也說過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12463.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12469.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
國發基金不可以淪為啊!紓困基金應該用法律管理啊!潘秘書長還記得嗎?當然! |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12471.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12494.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
你的想法有沒有改變還是時空背景又不一樣現在不用用法律管理想法沒有改變所以你還是贊成國發基金不可以作為紓困基金要用法律管理是嗎當初的紓困是因為要去做DRAM的一個紓困那完全是一個註冊50萬公司的公司要拿100億所以當初我們在立法院是反對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12496.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12521.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
國發基金不是不能作為這個紓困是不能用這樣的使用要去做規範你剛說國發基金是不能用作紓困所以你是贊成國發基金可以拿來紓困嗎?要用投資啊對嘛所以不能拿來紓困這個是第一個原創啊然後第二個要用法律管理你的立場沒改變嘛當然是吧現在國發基金不是用法律管理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12523.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12551.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他應該有監管單位阿是啊但是是授權下面的就給國發基金管理委員會當初你是要提國發基金管理條例捏但是問題是那時候大家討論沒有辦法阿那是一種倡議阿沒關係嘛你的立場沒有改變可以不可以這個國發處理嘛沒有關係阿那個主席有站起來但是我剛有計時喔主席質詢的時候超時10分鐘我比照同一個規格就好了好再下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12556.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12563.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
對啊,他自己超過10分鐘啊對啊,那你要去跟他抗議嘛好,來,再來我先處理會議時間,依前的宣告上午時間繼續進行至尋答結束及報告事項預算解凍案之處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12575.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12597.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們繼續再往下看國發基金不可以淪為紓困基金但我們政府投資了30億號稱綠能國家隊的聯合再生這家公司我相信秘書長你非常的熟我為什麼說淪為紓困基金投資以前就已經虧損了多少上百億投資以後又虧損了上百億潘秘書長你認為國發基金這樣投資對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12601.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12622.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我認為國發基金是應該站在一些新興產業的投資太陽能這個是新興產業嗎還是夕陽產業過去2016年開始新推的一個產業我相信那是當時的一個執政的一個在未來再開發多元能源他是新興產業還是夕陽產業嗎太陽能電板是新興產業還是夕陽產業這個問題沒這麼困難吧我跟委員報告我是講綠能的發展不是講太陽能面板 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12632.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12658.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
國發聯合再生就是在做太陽能面板的您不知道嗎我不知道他在做太陽能面板你真的不知道啊我不知道他在做太陽能面板奇怪了你跟這個董事長非常熟啊我就知道你會講這個是啊董事長委員我跟我站在屏東地方政府去招商是這一點是公開的紀錄是所以這不用我任何所以2020年3月18號你跟他在喜來登喜請客樓吃飯談什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12661.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12678.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我跟委員報告當初呢屏東縣政府做一個地層下限區四個鄉鎮的綠能專區公開招商那因為他是國家隊所以我繼續拜訪希望他來屏東做綠能開發的國際所以你去喜來登的請客樓拜訪他沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12681.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12702.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
誰買單的我買單那天是你買單的我請他一次我不知道是哪一次齁那天喜來登請克隆是你買單的我知道是誰提供給你然後再拍照但共同吃飯來來來做招商的並不代表有什麼好沒有關係共同吃飯來做招商並不代表什麼因為啦齁這裡面有非常多的細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12703.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12723.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
包括當初他去屏東的時候當他去屏東的時候做了什麼事情以及你們幾次參敘的時候討論了什麼事情所以我今天就公開請教你我們現在立法院成立了國發基金調查委員會如果調查委員會發函邀請您到委員會來說明您願不願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12725.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12747.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
我不願意因為這不關我的事啊你不願意喔關我什麼事欸依照立法院我不是立法委員跟大法官的憲法判決您認為調查委員會請你你有沒有來的義務我要評估因為你要評估欸等一下不是你法律上有沒有義務這個是一個法律問題如果是法律義務我當然會參加但國發基金怎麼投資你怎麼會找我來問呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12748.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12749.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
國家基金會我這樣講好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12765.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12772.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我這樣講好了啦有你辭職沒有你辭職因為我辭職你不能這樣含血噴人嘛是不是含血噴人所以我就請教你們國發基金調查委員會如果邀請你來你願不願意來 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12781.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12793.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
你已經講了兩年了你永遠沒有結果但只會含沙含沙射影然後我跟你講啦我從來不含沙射影的啦我說的話都是有評有據嘛你有沒有去吃這個飯嘛談了什麼嘛我問了很久啊這個攤在陽光下從來不願意公開回覆今天在這邊就是公開之前呢你是在含沙射影我問什麼對號入座我 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12805.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12812.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
沒有任何的我就講今天在立法院講話要負責任的黃委員他們如果涉及不法他們能馬上下台如果沒有涉及不法黃委員請你也有勇氣的辭職下台我們時間的關係是不是我們黃委員的質詢我們請尊重後面的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12829.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12838.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我之前開記者會沒有言論免責權喔我如果有毀謗歡迎你去告我你只是在講事態並沒有去指責怎麼樣那如果有怎麼樣請歡迎接下來我們有請黃委員孟凱質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12858.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12864.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
幾個問題我們再來一一就教今天我們看到我們黨團也已經接受到立法院國際事務處這邊來這個詢問就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12884.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12904.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
韓國瑜院長要率團出席這個美國川普總統的一個就職典禮預計是1月18到1月24號今天有一個媒體特別有報導是講說幕後說因為三法通過衝突引變數韓國瑜率團出席恐生變而放這個新聞的國安人士是完全匿名 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12905.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12931.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
大家現在不知道是國安人士是誰啊那但是我們講是說這個國安人士講居然講說沒有一定是立法院長代表出席啊甚至三法強行通過這個草也沒有對話的可能啊有人不講信用就別怪有人不講武德啊那我想請教以秘書長的高度尤其過去我們看到是說賴清德總統還有跟我們韓院長搖耳朵啊也講是說希望韓院長能夠代表台灣2350萬人前往美國來秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12934.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12940.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
會不會申辯我講齁我要特別跟謝謝洪委員齁你知不知道這個國安人士是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12941.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12945.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
媒體怎麼報導我不知道但沒有這樣的人是那怎麼報導出來我不知道那我想我還是要說明一下這個韓國院長就任之後總統我嫌得總統知名的請韓國院長因為籌辦國慶辛苦想請他一起共餐韓國院長婉拒也不是婉拒啊就是說他說抱歉這個時候不宜吃飯什麼時候說不宜吃飯 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12967.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12993.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
國慶之後國慶之後國慶之後那同時在總統府的慶典裡面也再三提那也謝謝韓院長那我也選了總統之命來拜會韓院長希望在整個雖然這個國會議長代表台灣去他不是慣例到去慶賀團那我特別選總統之命來拜會韓院長希望他能夠代表總統做特使團的團長 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12994.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13012.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
能夠到去川普總統的就職。什麼時候講的?應該三、四個禮拜了吧。三、四個禮拜。所以說確定有這件事情也是總統特別邀請拜託韓國瑜院長代表前往,對不對?那現在這一個新聞出來有沒有這個事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13013.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13035.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
沒有這件事沒有這件事情而且我也認為是說如果說總統已經我不知道這個媒體報導從何而來我不知道而且媒體總統也已經邀請拜託韓國瑜院長來代表出團那甚至可能也有把相關的名單也許我們的這個代表團團長也有給美方讓美方知道我們到之後出團的會是誰嗎具體因為當初韓國瑜院長還沒答應說希望跟他討論因為立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13037.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13062.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
在最後審議階段那因為我們必須請如果他決定我跟他講他決定了之後我們請外交部來規劃總統會責任外交部來做規劃到底這個各政黨各立院黨團要有多少的代表因為馬上要訂飯、訂機票等等包括接駁所以都有在進行嘛對不對所以我只講一個部分進行的如何我不知道今天帶這個風向的媒體不知道他的別有居心是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13063.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13086.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
第二這個國安人士到底是誰敢用匿名的方式也不敢用真實姓名再者如果說沒有這樣的事情我也認為啊國內幾個部分大家修法各自攻防政治有政治的立場但對外我們一致就代表中華民國就代表台灣2350萬人所以絕對不應該用國內的政治的部分去影響我們出團的一個狀況嘛是不是總統的態度就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13088.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13089.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
總統賴清德將啟動院紀條解權 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13111.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13125.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
愿記條件權其實在今年9月的時候當時因應原民進法補償條例的時候行政立法立法院一直講是說只要行政部門依法編列相關預算立法部門馬上做一個附委來做審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13126.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13150.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
但當時行政院不願意編列而到最後最終的協調結果是行政院還是編列了所以只要行政院願意編列之後立法院馬上就來做這個復為審查但是當時的情況我們也提過啊如果說憲法規定有願記糾紛的時候其實我們的憲法明文規定總統就有願記調解權可是當時總統一直不願意出面而現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13151.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13169.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
早上有個獨家講說因為有這樣的一個爭議法案所以說賴清德總統將啟動院紀調解權請教秘書長我想在剛剛您提到的第一點的確有討論過院紀調解權因為行政院自己要跟立法院來做溝通所以我們就沒有啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13170.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13195.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
你是說在9月的時候,是不是?對,之前齁,那目前欸剛剛你講第二個是什麼獨家我還不知道有這個訊息,也沒有這樣的目前因為現在傳出來,甚至他剛剛講是說在農曆年前要約韓國瑜院長,約左榮泰院長吃飯、餐敘這個委員你都用一個所謂匿名或獨家的,我無從答案不是,獨家是媒體已經公開,這是公開的資訊啊,所以我們現在在請教說 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13197.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13213.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
議長有沒有這樣的事情還是說我目前沒有這樣的事情先撇開這個獨家部分至少在這一次的三大法的一個修正爭議裡面來講當然我們也認為是說立法院是依照民主的程序多數絕到之後通過的三讀通過的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13213.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13230.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
合有爭議之有但現在的執政部門有意見所以說要做願計調解權請教如果說真的以願計調解權來講的話總統要以什麼樣的身份是認為說這三大法的修法有瑕疵還是說這三大法的修法不應該還是這三大法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13230.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13246.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
有致案案情之處?委員我想第一個齁有沒有啟動驗劑調解前目前沒有討論第二個總統會在合法合憲的當中在大前提之下也尊重立法院民進黨團以後行政院尊重立法院哪一個黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13247.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13252.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
立法院民進黨團民進黨團昨天民進黨團有開記者會總統只針對只尊重民進黨團不是啦您剛講是總統只針對民進黨團你聽我把話講完嘛好不好就是說因為你給我一分鐘好不好好抱歉就是說因為國聽這樣的國眾通過這樣的法案三法 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13267.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13287.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那民進黨團要提互議他昨天有提嘛又釋憲這個我們要尊重通過的法律也要尊重釋憲的法律那也要尊重行政院提那總統會在總管考慮的大前提的合體合憲合法的情況之下來做決定所以這不是去只有尊重民進黨團不尊重國民黨團不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13289.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13292.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
對,我們不能因為沒有經過民主程序我們就跟著沒有民主程序這不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13306.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13314.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
總統不會不公佈?行政院長不會不附屬?總統是基於憲法的守護者會公佈會但是要在合憲的當中裡面會公佈所以不會不公佈也不會不附屬是不是?行政院長也會附屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13322.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13338.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
好那最後啊這三大法的部分我們也來回顧一下歷史啊剛剛黃國昌委員講的是2012年啊2012年哇現在已經十幾年了我們來一個比較近一點的2015年啊4月22號當時的潘孟安啊是縣長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13339.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13358.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
小英總統那時候還是總統候選人啊所以他到各地方來做請議啊這個標題寫得清清楚楚啊潘孟安促修才化法啊認為是說小英總統拜託如果你真的有幸能夠當總統如果說立法院民進黨能夠占多數的話一定要修才化法而那時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13359.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13374.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
用的理由是什麼來下一張那時候用的理由是說是要改善貧富差距跟資源分配公平正義而且當時潘孟安縣長提出來的所得收入提撥比例要提高到20% |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13375.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13400.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們這一次的修法版本只有提高到11%換言之當時潘孟安縣長所提出來的是比現在修法版本還要多加9個百分點而且這9個百分點的增加的收入就是潘孟安縣長當時站在地方父母關的角度認為是說應該要中央給予地方政府更多的財源能夠發展地方的建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13401.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13418.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
不要換位置換腦袋不要換位置就改口這一點就是清楚明白認為現有的財務收支劃分法分配不公所以潘孟安縣長提出建言如今真的有修法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13420.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13444.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
而潘孟安秘書長剛剛也站在屏東縣老縣長的身份講說這一次修法給屏東還是太少我們講說如果說真的太少的話那當初行政部門為什麼沒有提版本為什麼民進黨的屏東的立委沒有提版本幫屏東幫各縣市多爭取一點啊如果說現行修法通過還是給屏東太少那代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13445.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13463.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
還沒修法之前財務收支劃分法給屏東更少更不應該謝謝好謝謝黃委員謝謝潘秘書長因為詢答之後下午就會進行預算提案的處理藉時委員可以就預算提案內容充分發言好接下來有請賴委員瑞榮發言好謝主席請潘秘書長好請潘秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13472.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13496.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
委員長辛苦了我首先還是關心這個彩化法啦齁我看這個彩化法其實首先我要講程序上就有很重大的問題啦其實剛剛黃國昌委員講了那麼多齁這個2014年跟現在他大概是完全不一樣的彩化法裡面在委員會3分鐘出去朝野沒有協商然後在這個院會的時候一個小時內提出8個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13497.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13524.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
幾乎是然後這個重大影響3000多月預算完全無法去計算很多立委連表決都不知道自己在表決出哪一種版本甚至於表決出多少預算作為曾經擔任過立法委員的幹事長的盤秘書長這樣的程序沒有問題嗎第一個謝謝委員的推詢第一個程序上有很大的瑕疵第二個立法的背景修法我還是一柄初衷過去在當國會議員也好當縣長也好都是希望主張來修但 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13525.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13544.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
不是在這種情境之下來修沒有充分討論只有垂直的憑空挖走3000億那沒有任何的細項科目甚至也沒有去跟各縣市討論他整個福地比如以屏東縣而言他有33個鄉鎮市的自治機關也要去分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13545.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13561.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以基本上它跟直轄市不一樣而直轄市六都佔了61%左右的中央政府總預算24%才用在非六都的縣市本來就極其不公平但不是這樣的修法方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13563.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13584.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13584.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13596.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
整個程序完全是沒有討論而且無法連行政部門都不知道版本會搞出什麼版本然後無法去計算這當然是重大的瑕疵我認為才化法出了很大的一個問題包括這個才化法我們談到實質內容來看好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13599.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13615.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
過去秘書長也擔任過屏東縣長這對南台灣公平嗎?相當不公平比如說他用營業稅所有的國營事業的公司總公司都登記在台北污染卻是在高雄跟屏東台南那整個比如說以中鋼中油總公司登記在台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13616.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13632.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
結果營業稅稅是繳在台北市結果污染的生產機率是在平台這就是一個很典型我有提了一個版本我提的版本就是要依照污染的貢獻度來分配合理分配像我的選區裡面的像剛剛你提到光台電就好了高雄台電有三個大電廠興達南部跟這個這個大林電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13636.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13662.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
公務有時候都還漂到屏東去但是總公司在臺北他的營業稅額放在臺北就照這樣分配所以我們看到臺北拿到了多少?拿到了最多416億新北因為人口拿到了374億而高雄只拿到了245億包括屏東也是全部縣市拿最少高雄是6個慈祥市拿最 比例拿最 增加最少而屏東是所有的縣市比例拿最少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13662.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13671.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
這對南我們以前常講不應該縱北侵南這只讓南北的差距更加擴大作為南台灣出任你能接受這樣的法案嗎修正這個動議版更是在懲罰南部對於這些過去在城鄉落差比較大的反而懲罰的更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13678.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13691.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
這是極其不公平那尤其他們只是講在過去整個國家重大公共建設或是交通建設都在北部那北部反而想有更多的資源又分配最多那這一點極其不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13694.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13694.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13724.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13749.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
真的是很不公平而且甚至於是在強化了縱北青南好不容易這幾年的執政努力的讓南北區域均衡發展縣市區域均衡我認為這個是在嚴重的包括甚至於我看到很多200增加2倍增加3倍全部都要攬移的縣市這不會充滿了政治性的一個修法嗎先決定要給然後再決定來修法內容這對整個縣市的發展是公平的嗎而且試算修過之後比他原來的總預算還要多 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13751.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13766.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
多很多!多很多!多兩倍!多三倍!有的多到三倍!而且那三倍的錢還不知道做什麼使用!所以剛剛有很多人在講說這修法這是最大問題!全國的國家的餅就這麼大!你瞬間拿走了3000多億!3753億! |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13770.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13793.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
錢就這麼多嘛你拿走了中央當然就沒錢了嘛中央沒錢所以各部會現在開始在講會盤點會影響到很多的重大的建設包括軌道運輸會影響到包括這個這個所有的一些治水也會影響到包括這個福利也會影響到因為很多是跨縣事件的問題嘛中央本來可以做的現在完全沒有所以很多人老是在講說啊你高雄增加了245億啊你屏東增加了134億你還不滿足問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13798.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13809.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
就高雄來看增加了245億但是明年的700億的本來可以分配到的因為你中央被拿走了3000多億後可能恐怕只剩下300億也就是說實質上會減少了將近300億到400億實質上光高雄跟屏東未來明年絕對是負成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13818.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13841.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
總統府長是副城長,這對平東公平嗎?對高雄不公平,對平東更不公平。如果看到這樣的精算數字,包括未來中央總統府稅款之後,變成了平東款的減少了96億。是啊,所以就整個總的來看國家財政那麼多嘛,你現在不要講的一副好像你挖那麼多錢來給的你這些錢,你是在國家錢挖出來之後,變成國家未來補助的會更少,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13842.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13867.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
高雄、屏東、台南我可以預計明年度全部都是負成長全部都減少不要再講什麼245億不要再什麼130億難道你不要嗎都是在騙屏東人騙高雄人騙台南人對他們都極其不公平所以我認為其實這件事情是嚴重的違憲同時是違反相關的紀律的財政紀律的我們認為政府機關應該要有所作為所以包括復議包括釋憲我們認為都應該進行民進黨同意這樣的做法嗎是我們會窮極一切的憲政 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13872.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13898.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
這是為了台灣的長遠發展如果可以這樣子惡搞的話那財政絕對是崩壞了啦更何況這個過程完全沒有經過討論行政部門的意見也沒有進來然後各縣市政府意見沒有進來完全照那個分配比例然後只有三個人知道最終機密版本連現場在座的立委連我們都不知道這算什麼樣的立法這立法絕對是有問題的一個立法所以我們強烈反對我們要求這件事情應該要退回委員會重新討論重新審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13899.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13902.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好不好?謝謝潘秘書長。接下來請徐副委員發言。謝主席,我們有請潘秘書長。請潘秘書長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13922.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13942.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
委員長辛苦我想我認識的潘孟安秘書長過去從最雞騰的車臣鄉民代表當過縣議員當到10年的立法員8年的縣市召首長我想這過去30年的政治歷練我想經得起考驗尤其特別當年選舉的時候一些有的沒的攻擊的事件都會出現這個惡意的攻擊我想這個我們對潘秘書長有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13950.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13968.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
不過我想請教民主黨今年1月13號我們的全國的人民支持了我們的賴清德總統來凍算但是很危險的我們的國會並沒有過半民進黨沒有過半在這樣一個情況之下我們看到國會的亂象不斷的發生從上個會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13972.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13979.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
國民兩黨、民眾黨及國民黨聯手國會擴權的亂象被裁定違憲後,他們不感冤。到上個禮拜五,接連二修,包含裁劃法、限訴法及罷免權的部分。我相信我們秘書長應該心有其心,過去在擔任國會議員,你也經過嘲笑野大在野黨的立委、執政黨的立委做過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14003.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14017.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我想過去我在2004年的時候那時候嘲笑也大但那時候政黨林立也不會像現在這樣我無權去智慧但我有感而發的謝謝委員的追尋那個時候大家都會講理講程序講法制那不會說進行像類似這樣才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14025.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14036.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
根本沒有進行討論的一個空間或是在修法或是其他的法律也沒有討論空間只有剛剛陳如委員所執行的就盡致的碾壓過去不管過去曹小偉大或是過半大家都是充分討論的民主程序絕對沒有說這樣的一個方式但現在整個政治生態撇片 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14048.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14076.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那包括剛剛也有委員執行到說什麼12年跟24年的態度我想我們還是態度是一致只是過去的整個中央政府總預算的在過去立法院大概一年在行政院裡面大概一兆一兩千億左右現在高達三兆多然後整個預算的膨脹預算的增加以外支出也當然也增加了很多所以法定支出沒有充分討論這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14078.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14083.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
議長,我想過去的時空背景到現在不可同日而語。我想我們都支持要修裁法法,但是應該在一個合情合理的方式下要跟各縣市政府來討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14099.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14117.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
很遺憾地上個禮拜五民眾在我們開會的時候民眾黨拿四個版本國民黨拿四個版本搞不好連他們自己的立委對著版本都講不清楚啦那剛剛秘書長講了我們國民黨的部分區立委蘇清泉冰凍的他還沾沾自喜說我們結盤一百三十幾個看了幾個我們是撿了九十幾億的 他的數據不知道怎麼算的 誒不是幾萬啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14123.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14140.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
就是說自己沒有去精算然後看到帳面的數字就爽得要命其實是屏東是減少了96億而且是全國分配最少的而且是聯軍分配倒數第二的這個沒有什麼好沾沾自喜應該要極力來為屏東爭取才對所以我想民主黨這個過去你從國會議員的時候我們帶領團隊這回來拍面 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14150.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14173.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我們從這個那時候我們極力來爭取我們相關中央部會對屏東縣政府的一個支持我們提出很多競爭型的計畫我印象最深刻你當現場的時候縣中縣政府的預算不到300億到你卸任之後我們高達500億我想這就是我們努力的過程我們努力來爭取建設但是我們現在擔心現在國民黨跟民眾黨這個二修裁判法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14178.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14194.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14194.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14216.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那中央政府也要積極來協助那我剛剛修正修正一下剛剛的蘇委員的蘇委員的那個你剛剛提到蘇貞昌委員的那種認知我認為他是錯覺所以我剛剛的話再修正一下我認為他是錯覺以為以為高興可以分到100多億那其實整個精算之後是減少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14218.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14241.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那把原來的反而未來的公共支出內重大建設反而是遙遙無期的所以這一點可能是凑結的這個部分也請委員跟他溝通一下這個部分我們有碰到的話我也跟他溝通一下我想身為屏東在地的立委我們也希望好包含我們的中加兵委員、我們的中央衛生委員我們都跟有立委我們一定支持屏東的建設我們也會捍衛但是我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14244.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14261.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
包含我們的總統、包含我們的行政院長、包含我們的秘書長,我想我們還是要有很堅定的態度,針對這樣一個違憲的一個修法,我們還是要表達我們的強烈的抗議,我們一定要拿出我們的態度來,因為我們屏東的背線,大家也在看,我們未來我們一定要捍衛我們屏東的權益到底,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14263.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14287.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
好謝謝許委員謝謝潘秘書長所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢詢答結束委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會那麼現在進行報告事項預算解凍書面報告案請140委員宣讀議程所列之總統府113年度預算解凍書面報告案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14289.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14314.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
報告事項第二案總統府含為113年度中央政府總預算決議減送決議一至三預算凍結書面報告請查照案宣讀完畢好現在進行處理報告事項第二案已提出書面報告已並經宣讀各位人如無異議有沒有異議沒有沒有那我們就若如下決定均准予被查提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14315.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14328.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
上午會議進行到此。下午10時30分開會進行議程所列。14年度總統府主管單位預算至審查。開會後先進行宣讀約6分鐘。宣讀後即進行處理。現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
17921.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
17936.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
好,現在繼續開會那麼進行討論事項前請14年度先宣讀114年度中央政府總預算案關於總統府主管．不含中央研究院．收支部分及全部預算書及委員提案請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
17939.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
17952.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
114年度總統府主管稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第一項總統府第二項國使館第三項國使館台灣文獻館均無劣數第三款歸費收入第一項總統府1000元第二項國使館30萬元第三項國使館台灣文獻館313000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
17958.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
17967.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
第4款財產收入第一項總統府221萬4千元第二項國家安全會議5千元第三項國使館54萬5千元第4項國使館台灣文獻館11萬4千元第7款其他收入第一項總統府33萬1千元第二項國家安全會議18000元第三項國使館38萬元第4項國使館台灣文獻館73萬元稅收部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
17985.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
17990.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
第一款總統府主管第一項總統府11億2302萬3千元第二項國家安全會議2億3211萬1千元第三項國史館2億3760萬5千元第四項國史館台灣文獻館1億1376萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
18004.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
18026.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
繼續宣讀委員提案部分請參閱提案彙整表及提案書面內容一、14年度中央政府總預算案委員提案彙整表總統府主管收支部分稅出預算低緩低向總統府一案第一幕一般行政校下零一人員維持凍結10%為謝龍介等提案二案第一幕校下零一中人事費凍結10%為黃國昌等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
18029.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
18046.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
三案至13案針對第一目向下零二基本行政工作維持。三案凍結2367萬5千元為謝龍介等提案。四案業務費之水電費減列600萬元為黃國昌等提案。五案科目同錢減列400萬元為翁曉琳等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
18047.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
18064.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
末案科目同前檢列481萬8千元凍結200萬元為烏小林等提案。七案業務費之物品檢列92萬7千元凍結100萬元為烏小林等提案。八案業務費之一般事務費檢列400萬元凍結400萬元為烏小林等提案。九案科目同前檢列150萬元凍結100萬元為烏小林等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
18069.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
18086.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
10案業務費至國外旅費檢列50萬7千元為黃國昌等提案11案科目同前凍結50萬7千元委員新隆界等提案12案科目同前凍結90%為翁小林等提案13案設備及投資雜項設備費檢列100萬元凍結100萬元為黃國昌等提案14案至18案針對第一目向下03資訊行政工作為止14案凍結2500萬元為黃國昌等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
18099.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
18106.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
15案業務費資訊服務費檢列602萬9千元凍結500萬元文物賞鈴等提案16案業務費支委辦費檢列96萬元文物賞鈴等提案17案科目同情檢列26萬4千元凍結20萬元文物賞鈴等提案18案設備及投資資訊軟件體設備費檢列440萬元凍結500萬元文物賞鈴等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
18121.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
18143.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
十九案第2目國務期要向下零一國務期要中醫務費之計要費解滅一千萬元凍結二千萬元委員黃國昌等提案二十案第四目研究發展第一屆國家發展研究及諮詢解滅一百萬元凍結一百萬元委員黃國昌等提案二十一案科目同前凍結百分之五十委員翁小林等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
18144.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
18160.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
二十二案第四目第一節向下禮儀國政規劃與諮詢凍結百分之十元先容戒等提案二十三案第四目第一節向下禮儀中任務廢止安慰案件計次籌金解密五十萬元凍結五十萬元文化賞禮等提案二十四案科目同檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
18161.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
18181.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
解落50萬元凍結50萬元文物小零等提案二十五案第五目新聞發布向下零一新聞聯繫與發布中央業務費解落200萬元凍結100萬元文物黃國昌等提案二十六案第五目向下零一中央業務費至一般事務費解落148萬5000元凍結100萬元文物小零等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
18182.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
18200.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
二十七案第八目一般建築及設備第一階交通及運輸設備向下零一運輸設備截列476萬元委員黃國昌等提案二十八案至三十五案分別為委員吳思瑤等委員莊瑞雄等委員莊瑞雄陳培宇等委員沈發慧等所提主決議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
18201.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
18221.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
第一款．第二項國家安全會議．37案第一幕一般行政向下01人員維持中人事費至政務人員待遇凍結一百萬元無償零等提案。三十八案第一幕向下02基本行政工作維持中醫藥費至水電費減淪一百萬元黃國昌等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
18221.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
18246.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
三十九案刻目同前檢列七十八萬八千元凍結五十萬元委員翁小林等提案。四十案第一幕下下零二中業務費之資訊服務費檢列八十六萬元凍結一百萬元委員翁小林等提案。四十一案第一幕下下零二中設備及投資資訊軟體設備費檢列一百萬元凍結一百萬元委員黃國昌等提案。四十二案刻目同前檢列六十二萬元凍結一百萬元委員翁小林等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
18247.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
18257.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
四、三案第二幕諮詢研究業務向下領域諮詢研究業務檢列300萬元凍結300萬元為翁賞齡等提案。四、四案第二幕向下領域中業務費檢列100萬元凍結100萬元為黃國昌等提案。四十五案第二幕向下領域諮詢研究業務中業務費至國外旅費凍結908萬元為元謝龍介等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
18270.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
18277.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
46案第3目一般建築及設備第一階交通及運輸設備向下零一交通及運輸設備中設備及投資運輸設備費檢列114萬元為翁上林等提案。47案科目統前檢列114萬元為黃國昌等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
18286.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
18306.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
第1款第三項國使館48案第二幕檔案文物管理與編轉向下靈兒檔案管理應用凍結10%文西隆界等提案49案科目統計凍結150萬元文靈思明等提案50案51案分別為委員務私聊等文人審法會等所提主決議案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
18308.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
18323.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
好,預算訴及委員提案已宣讀完畢,現在進行審查。那討論前呢,先說明預算案的處理方式。依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例,稅務部分,依來源別以向為單位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
18324.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
18351.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
稅出部分依機關別以目為單位分別依序進行審查各單位預算中於處理委員所提之增3提案後其餘未涉及之預算部分均與照列有關正式別稅出預算隨同機關別審查結果調整預算提案經由整理請各位分別參閱提案本及會人表那進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
18352.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
18367.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那另外也特別提醒機關稍後經討論決議修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席臺並均列入公報記錄那審查預算過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
18371.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
18390.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
列行幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時請先自行介紹職稱、姓名、臂力公報人員記錄。那麼現在就進行預算案之審查先處理稅務部分。那麼因為沒有委員提案稅務預算均照列。 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
18391.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
18419.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
好那接下來繼續處理稅出提案一例依照會診表所排列的提案順序依序由提案委員先就提案內容進行說明之後再由機關代表予以答覆然後在整目一起處理做成決議原則上依照慣例我們盡可能採用共識的方式處理那麼接下來我們處理的預算稅出部分請參與提案本及會診表依序進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
18420.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
18448.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好那我們就看第一案因為側案是謝委員的好那沒有問題的話我們請看第二案那麼第二案黃委員的部分有到第10案那因為第一幕的部分是到第18案那是不是請黃委員就12到18黃委員的部分分別有6個提案那請黃委員可以先依序做提案說明請 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
18450.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
18467.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
好謝謝第二案的部分是針對有關於總統府裡面的戰略顧問的待遇我看過去的這幾年總統府的戰略顧問的待遇每一年逐漸的攀升2018年的時候變了1500萬2019年到2022年1800萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
18474.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
18498.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
多萬然後到2024年的時候是1892萬不過實際上面因為我之前第一次在國會服務的時候我就針對總統府的戰略顧問他實際上面他的功能他工作的內容那個時候總統府的秘書長是陳局陳秘書長然後那個時候在那一次的審查當中有請教他 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
18499.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
18521.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那只不過說我2018年那一次質詢陳局陳秘書長的時候我也很驚訝的發現連總統府的秘書長對於戰略顧問到底是在做什麼的有沒有開會情況都不是搞得非常的清楚但是拉到現在來了是當年我們在處理的時候那個時候有5名戰略顧問編了1500萬那現在我們的戰略顧問變成3名了然後預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
18527.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
18529.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
反而不斷地往上攀升到1965萬所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
18533.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
18555.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
因為這是人事費的部分所以我也沒有說要去刪減但最起碼你要凍結嘛凍結那請你們做一個專案報告針對這個戰略顧問他們實際上面的功能實際上面的職長然後那到司法法制委員會提出專案報告然後經過同意後時的凍結因為你如果說是以1965萬凍結10%是100 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
18564.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
18573.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
196萬以你們現在只有三名戰略顧問來講我想應該對於總統府戰略顧問他現在實際上面的工作不會造成啊任何的妨害好謝謝那麼黃委員要不要一併後面幾個案子一併講呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
18581.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
18607.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
你要通案處理是不是?我們是想因為大概分的我剛看了一下委員的提案有就人事費的就國外旅費的就水電費的就設備費的那是不是因為您的提案都有涵蓋那先就您的提案進行說明那我在後面的分類來請教其他委員有提案的委員的意見好不好OK好謝謝第4案的部分是針對你們在業務費裡面下面的水電費編列2914萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
18610.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
18627.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
今年編列的數目是2265萬從2265萬一下子跳升到2914萬增加的幅度將近到了三成增加的幅度真的稍微太誇張了一點所以針對這個部分檢列預算600萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
18634.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
18637.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
然後...不好意思喔,因為... |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
18642.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
18671.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
然後第10案的部分就是這個在業務費裡面的國外旅費編了50萬7千元這個我有一點看不太懂因為50萬7千元其實老實講如果是以總統出訪的需求的話這個金額是絕對不夠啦遠遠不足啦絕對不可能是這樣的數額那所以在總統府的業務費裡面下面的國外旅費50萬7千元他到底執行上面的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
18672.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
18691.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
跟他執行上面的內容到底是什麼預算這樣編讓我覺得非常的困惑因為我看這個數字我一看就不對所以我就去查之前國外旅費編列的狀況那跟我在審其他機關的時候所看到的狀況可以說是一模一樣也就是預算怎麼編計畫怎麼寫是一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
18694.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
18709.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
實際上面怎麼支又是另外一回事因為當你裡面錢不夠的時候就從其他的計畫上下或其他的內容跟預算書上面所寫本來要用途不同的內容來把它挪過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
18711.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
18724.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
用加強國際交流等等這樣子的名目來予以之用所以我認為在總統府下面這個出國計畫編50萬7千人毫無意義全數予以刪除這個是第10案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
18726.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
18750.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
好還有那個13、14然後第13案的部分是你們在雜項設備費裡面編列了1999萬那幾乎啦大概就是2000萬元然後其中說要去換中央空調的主機要換850萬元那沒有續名整個汰換的理由所以我提案簡列100萬凍結100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
18755.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
18774.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
14、16然後第14案的部分是在你們資訊行政工作維持項下編列了1億1288萬元那你們這個1億1288萬元就資安相關的預算雖然是有它的必要性沒有錯但是你們編的這個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
18776.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
18794.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
非常非常的龐大你裡面細部所需要的經費到底是怎麼編列的它的基礎到底是什麼從預算書上面完全沒有辦法看出來所以凍結這個經費2500萬元1億1288萬凍結2500萬元請你們提專案報告這個象效一毛錢都沒有刪只有純粹凍結要求你們提出專案報告以後值得凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
18809.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
18833.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
16案然後第16案的部分一樣跟這個電腦是有關係的說資安相關議題的研究的研究經費編在2024年編69萬然後到2025年的時候繼續研究資安相關議題研究那所以每一年好像都編列了所謂的委辦費然後要從總統府外 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
18833.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
18860.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
去委辦所謂的資安相關議題研究去年編69萬今年又增加增加到96萬元那我認為你們這個計畫根本我看實際上面的內容是照抄從年去去年的內容完全沒有做任何的變更完全沒有做任何的變更那因此這種重複編列的計畫沒有編列的必要提案刪減該項預算96萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
18863.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
18890.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
好謝謝黃委員剛黃委員一共他有6個案子那分別表達在人事費水電費國外旅費那在資訊設備的部分分別表達在設備費維持費以及委辦費上面那我們先以人事費的部分來進行討論那我先宣讀一下因為第三案那個謝榮介委員的部分測案那我們是不是先請總統府機關代表先就人事費的部分進行說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
18892.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
18908.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
好謝謝主席謝謝黃國昌委員羅志強委員羅委員也是前總統府副秘書長那我是總統府副秘書長張敦涵那我先就剛剛黃委員指教的部分這個來說明第一個關於這個戰略顧問的人事費部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
18909.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
18924.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那今年明年度比今年度增加的部分大概就是4%那4%的原因就是因為基於這個公務人員挑釁4%所以這個編列4%那至於這個相關委員的提案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
18925.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
18944.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
能否我的建議是這樣那請這個委員們能夠等一下參佐就是說委員隨行的包括戰略顧問他們實際上提供了什麼會議的功能或者是諮詢的功能我想過去在過去這段時間其實在總統府包括國安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
18945.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
18966.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
甚至國防部我想都有借重這三位上將的專業的地方包括前一陣子我也才跟其中的霍將軍有開過全社會的相關的會議那如果委員有需要我們確實是希望也建請委員能夠讓總統府就預算以及這三位戰略顧問 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
18967.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
18996.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
他們的執掌以及他們的功能提出書面報告解凍就這個第二案的部分第二個關於委員提到的第4案我知道黃委員跟羅委員過去一段時間在...張副秘長我們先就人事費的部分我們後面水電會再請您去那有關人事費的部分可不可以請其他委員表示意見我可不可以先進一步具體請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
18998.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
19022.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
不過我進一步請教就是說戰略顧問一年我們聘一個戰略顧問要支出的經費大概多少錢一年一個人多少錢平均大概平均是多少有幾指跟無幾指有兩種 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
19025.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
19047.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
大概300萬上下就依照軍人的待遇條例來支付所以一個人一年大概300萬300萬是包括月薪加年中獎金嗎?對就整個加起來大概一個人一個年一人300萬那我們現在有三名戰略顧問兩個一級上將一個二級上將所以300乘以34等於900萬那900萬你們的預算編列了1965萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
19056.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
19075.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我說明應該沒錯嘛所以我要求只要求凍結10%對你們現在對這三名戰略顧問1900多萬是編列七個人那我們目前限職是有三個人是嘛所以我說以你們現在對這三名戰略顧問一個人一年需要300萬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
19076.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
19099.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
乘以3就是900萬嘛然後你預算是編1965萬嘛所以我的提案只凍結10%請你們提專案報告應該完全不會影響到你們對這3名戰略顧問的需要支給的費用目前3位是不會影響是啊那委員可不可以改書面報告不要用專案報告的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
19100.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
19123.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我可能還是希望用專案報告的方式啦因為我覺得這個制度因為討論也很多年了嘛對於國家如果很重要有這個必要性多讓法制委員會的委員可以了解裡面實際的內容跟這個制度上面的檢討我覺得應該沒有什麼不妥那個其他委員們要表下意見來羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
19125.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
19142.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
我覺得對總統府預算審查我是從所謂的那個個別的案跟總體還是兩部分來表達我的立場那剛剛以個別的第二案來說的話我非常支持黃國昌委員那就是事實上現在戰略顧問就是只有三個人嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
19142.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
19164.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
那黃國昌委員也很客氣啊這個預算還沒減劣啊只是凍結你10%那現在你編1900多萬實質上你目前就是只需要900萬所以嚴格來講就算你未來把這個戰略顧問你要再擴編補期其實這個凍結案對你幾乎是沒有任何影響我覺得黃委員已經是非常體諒總統府了 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
19165.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
19165.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
總統府預算審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
19183.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
19205.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我幾乎可以用慘不忍睹我會賴清德總統就覺得現在總統府的螺絲真的是不夠緊應該要再酸緊一點沒有幫總統府去承擔很多的工作所以在預算上我們來幫總統府來把關告訴總統府我們總統府的幕僚要再努力一點為什麼我這樣講我覺得歸納一下我覺得最近就這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
19206.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
19225.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
我覺得總統府的幕僚工作有三大獅子三大獅子大家知道總統府的幕僚是總統最重要的一個幕僚單位那麼他有三個很重要的核心任務第一就是為總統做事前的研析分判情勢第二就是在事中 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
19225.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
19248.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
在一些總統要推動的一些政策工作中做好協商跟溝通第三個就是在事後如果出了問題的話要檢討的反省跟改進就是事前研判、事中協商跟事後的改進那這三塊我覺得舉最近總統府三大失職我認為總統府的工作真的是螺絲釘要栓緊一點第一大失職就是大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
19249.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
19277.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
大法官其實雖然有這個大法官的提名省建小組但總統府他還是做一個很重要的幕僚單位那實際上大法官你會發現這次提名竟然發生了這個我們的民進黨的那個黨團全黨團一致決議然後封殺賴清德總統提名的大法官理由竟然是因為這個劉靜儀大法官被提名人他是這個會常常罵民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
19278.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
19295.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那所以今天早上我在質詢我們的這個潘孟安秘書長我也特別講我說我說怎麼會今天最後大法官的法定的積極資格不重要變成民進黨的所謂黨定的積極資格就是大法官要當的話他的資格就是不可以罵民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
19296.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
19317.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
因為民進黨推翻劉靜儀的這個提名民進黨黨團我只看到一個理由除非民進黨在跟我補充嘛我只看到一個理由就是說劉靜儀基本上他認為他一直罵民進黨連潘孟安秘書長都說劉靜儀是一個事任的大法官他自己幫他背書啊今天早上然後賴清德也提名他結果民進黨立法院黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
19319.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
19348.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
竟然去打臉他。那就問一下就是說我也不知道我們的總統府的幕僚工作在做的過程當中難道沒有好好去了解一下民進黨立法院黨團的想法嗎?那這個部分難道沒有跟賴清德總統建議嗎?那你把人事提到立法院來的話那如果發生這種所謂的不被提名的狀況那基本上不是獻總統於不義嗎?所以這個你的事前研判顯然就沒有做好事中跟民進黨立法院黨團溝通也沒做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
19349.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
19363.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那事後其實到現在為止當然因為事件才發生沒多久啊 你們改進作為是沒看到啦那就看我們總統府改進作為什麼那第二大失職那就要進行才化法才化法失職我就更嚴重為什麼才化法失職是可預見的失職 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
19364.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
19387.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
因為很簡單今天總統在做任何的政治判斷的時候一定要提醒總統一件事嘛就在總統以前主張是什麼啊那時候以前主張是什麼你要根據以前主張然後告訴總統今天我們採取什麼樣的一個態度會怎麼樣影響人民的觀感會怎麼樣影響民進黨立法院黨團的一個所謂的投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
19388.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
19405.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
舉個例子才化法眾所皆知第一個提出才化法必須要打破中央極權又極前而且多次闡述把他當作最重要政治信念的人第一個就是賴清德總統啊就是賴清德總統過去斑斑可考的政治主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
19406.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
19431.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那我不知道總統府你們幕僚有沒有跟有沒有暫進提醒的責任到時候來見的總統說欸總統財化法這件事情你一直主張今天要修改啊一直要主張修改啊好那就算總統要用時空環境改變之術要去翻盤齁那你起碼做到一件事情嘛就是說你今天你跟立法院好好溝通嘛結果你會發現很抱歉啊財化法結果弄到最後我們黃川委員就發現啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
19433.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
19448.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
你搞到最後結果是民進黨立委跑票造成財化法不夠沒有過那不就是今天今天就是有點陽奉陰違了嗎那邱毅英當時說他生病我不知道這個生病的理由是不是如何那也是祝福他早日康復 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
19449.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
19475.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
可是我就要講造成財化法沒有通過難道不就是總統府的幕僚工作你們沒有做好嗎?你們難道沒有?現在總統府秘書長是最重要幕僚工作的承擔者啊那請問你們跟立法院民進黨立法院黨團的那個平行的協商到底是什麼?我要我這一件事情前面那個劉靜儀的事情我覺得那個是總統跟民進黨立法院黨團雙方都有問題但這件事情我要幫民進黨立法院黨團說句話為什麼?是總統有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
19478.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
19489.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
為什麼你今天怎麼可以勉強民進黨立法院的黨團齊心齊力去打臉過去賴清德總統的主張呢?因為賴清德總統神聖的主張在前面民進黨的立法委員都已經民科在腦袋裡面了啊 對不對那這種民科在腦袋裡面的東西你叫他今天要他推翻以前的賴清德總統在立法院投票打臉以前的賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
19500.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
19510.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我是邱益穎我都要脫兵不出啊因為我投不下去嘛我不忍心打臉前代總統那我就請問今天你們事前拿到的總府幕僚沒有幫總統嚴判好這個狀況嗎?就算你們有嚴判你們覺得賴清德今天錢剛獨斷應該要幹這件事情那你們跟立法院民進黨黨團溝通好 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
19520.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
19546.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
你沒有做好溝通,事前研判又不精確,更何況秘書長自己過去都主張要修財化法今天早上質詢他也說他過去主張是這樣,然後最後到事後的部分我覺得也是個問題今天秘書長跟我講說,他最後跟我托詞是什麼說因為我們現在在野黨尊照賴清德總統的目標跟理想推動了財化法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
19546.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
19567.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
但是你們沒有考量水平的分配跟那個垂直分配的合理性跟公平性啊那我就說欸拜託如果真的這樣的話民進黨立法院行政院拿出個版本出來我們也沒話講你就拿出版本非常好水平也公平垂直也公平大家都沒話說難道這一點最基本的政策分析總統府的步調都不用做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
19568.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
19590.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
抱歉我在總統府工作我一定要做這些事情啊我也要做這些事情啊請問有沒有做這個事情那尤其是溝通協商一定是秘書長做的啦就像我們潘孟乃承認啊事後這個劉靜儀他事後溝通也沒做好他打電話給劉靜儀之後劉靜儀還是一樣一濫放炮嘛那第三個我覺得失職是什麼台灣今年的人事 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
19593.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
19614.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
真的總統府怎麼會莫名其妙去推薦一個沒有金融經驗然後家族涉及弊案的呂政章你派目案作為秘書長你要幫總統舉薦人才就要審慎審慎再審慎結果弄出了這麼大的包三天就下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
19615.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
19630.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
丟臉的是賴清德總統啊事後還跟大家講說我是為國舉裁啊派秘書長這樣講啊然後說總統沒有震怒你前面這樣講啊你自己單人就說我對不起大家這是我自己是人不明結果你還附近加入總統沒有震怒意思是總統很開心你提名這個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
19631.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
19659.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
但你總統很開心你潘某蘭推薦這個人結果最後怎麼樣?三天就下台所以我要跟各位講我今天必須說啦我對總統府這幕僚工作做的哩哩啦啦這件事是非常為賴清德總統抱屈啦所以如果你的績效這麼差說真的預算的部分我們真的要好好的來看看說那總統府你值不值得配不配這麼多的預算給你們來去用那就算我們今天在預算上我們的審查更何況賴清德總統也講嘛民進黨也講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
19660.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
19686.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
就是說財化法修正之後民進黨很缺錢啊那很缺錢從准結開始我們可以幫民進黨省一點經費所以這是我剛剛講的個案我們有個案的一個審查的一個角度但是對通案的部分我還是有一些自己的一些怎麼審查總統府預算的看法以上公餐謝謝謝謝請問在黨其他委員有沒有針對第二案人事費的部分提案的內容跟說明有補充的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
19687.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
19716.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
那這樣好了齁那因為上午啊我們在處理總統府的今年度也是去年審預算的時候所做的今年度的預算的解凍案也進行了那麼在場有部分委員今天上午在處理都不在那所以我現在請議事人員齁再度的把今天上午處理的總統府的預算解凍案的書面報告提供給各位委員那我再來進行跟委員會的說明那首先剛剛我們提案委員黃國昌委員提到對於總統府編列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
19718.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
19741.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
這個戰略顧問待遇19659000元建議凍結一成10%那麼提交專案報告同意後使的凍支這應該是我們黃委員的提議那我在這裡請各位看的就是說其實在去年112年審議今年度的預算的同時對總統府有三個預算凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
19743.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
19766.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
那麼這個分別是在去年的12月19日的時候分別有這個林世民、王宏偉委員還有包括了也是王委員在內國民黨的委員為主以及包括謝一鋒委員在內分別提出三個提案在去年的11月19日凍結的分別有300萬、287萬跟150萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
19770.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
19790.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
那麼到今天才解凍那我跟委員報告因為我們司法及法制委員會在進行預算解凍案的一個同意的審查其實是有相當的相當少的時間所以主席在這裡也跟委員會報告那如果我們今天採用凍結的結果很可能的結果就是到明年的這個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
19792.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
19821.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
今天是12月25日就是去年12月19日凍結的今年度的預算到今天12月25日就解凍那形式上可能待會總統府可以說明一下這些解凍案在今天我們委員會解凍之後總統府上有沒有可能致用那這邊請因為也給我們總統府的機關代表一份這裡面分別凍結的300萬是由一般行政當中的資安的管理費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
19823.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
19829.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
凍了300萬。我不曉得今年解凍化還會使用。另外也包含對國家慶典凍結了287萬。在這個解凍報告書的第1523頁當中我們有看到歷任總統的 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
19842.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
19869.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
國家慶典那分別提到了每任的新任總統的國家慶典的費用那我這邊看到了大概在第10任也就是陳水扁總統的那個就職典禮花了多少錢編了多少錢然後第12任馬英九總統他連兩任他的首任是編了5000萬第二任的時候編了4000萬那第14任是蔡英文總統就職的時候首任是編了3600多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
19871.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
19895.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
第二任的時候是編了3500多萬那因為去年在審今年度的預算是預期今年應該是由新任總統那在去年12月的時候我們真的是不確定今年的新任總統會是誰不過那個時候的委員也都是很大公無私的認為應該要凍結那時候是由王洪威委員等提出那表示他們對於不管未來的新任總統是哪一個政黨的都應該在 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
19896.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
19925.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
慶典的部分予以尊潔目前尊潔的結果就是今年的國慶慶典我不知道實際的花費是多少但是我想這287萬有沒有可能繼續使用國家慶典的部分另外也在去年的12月19日新聞發布的時候也凍結了150萬在今天解凍之後是否能夠使用這一點也請委員會檢查是不是還有其他委員說要發言或者說機關代表可不可以說明來我們黃委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
19926.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
19937.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
不好意思喔,主席我想請教一下我們現在在討論的到底是我的提案2還是總統府他們所提出來所謂的解凍書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
19940.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
19965.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
是那我說明一下因為剛剛那個黃委員的提案是要凍結10%所以呢那因為凍結10%那軍委還設了一個書面專案報告同意後使得凍之那我只是報告說去年同樣的情況那我們是在經歷一年後才解凍那這個部分請機關要了解你們說明一下這個這個如果同意凍結那麼經過同意後使得解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
19966.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
19985.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那他可能的情況只是做一個提醒在場的委員會的委員跟列席機關代表所以我們現在不是在處理去年預算凍結的書面報告我後面講不好意思啊我就直接講啊預算被凍結了以後要來專案報告的效果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
19987.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
20000.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
書面報告的效果是什麼我相信今天坐在這邊的機關代表非常的清楚因為如果連這個基本的事情都不清楚來這邊做預算的處理那顯然就不適格嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
20001.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
20028.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那我絕對相信總統府不會派不適格的人來啊所以坐在這邊凍結了以後專案報告的效果是什麼書面報告的效果是什麼我相信在場的每一位委員跟機關的代表都非常的清楚那我還是要回到我第二案來處理我第二案我剛說明過我再說明一次啊我非常的客氣我在列顧問半毛錢都沒有算你們現在有三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
20029.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
20034.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
一個一年要300萬乘起來是900萬你編了1965萬我只凍結10%請你做專案報告以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
20042.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
20052.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
然後再凍織他給我的書面回應是說你們只願意凍結100萬不願意凍結10%但我就看不懂啊1965萬的10%就是195萬啊然後你要跟我爭執說我只要凍100萬我不要凍195萬我完全看不懂這個point在哪裡啊差了這95萬會對於總統府戰略顧問的運作產生什麼實質重大的障礙嗎我完全看不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
20072.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
20093.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
議員代表請說明我先回復主席剛剛詢問的關於總統府去年今年度的預算被凍結上案第一案跟第三案確實是會有無法支應甚至我們可能評估要把預算保留的問題第二案在國家慶典的部分感謝立法院大院去年在審預算的時候給了3960萬左右的預算那我們實際 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
20097.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
20123.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
准結支出大概是花了3684萬所以應該這個跟預算凍結的數量應該不會受到比較大的影響這是第一個報告第二個報告我還是建請說我看到總統府的這個關於預算提案有30幾案那我確實也知道專案報告跟書面報告的效率有什麼不同我只是請這個委員們檢查說哪些東西書面報告其實就可以理解哪些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
20125.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
20127.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
比較復雜需要用到專案報告這個請委員公請委員來討論謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
20131.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
20157.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
好這樣因為有沒有其他委員要補充那如果沒有的話我在主席在這邊也徵求委員會也是提案委員那麼因為鑒於我們本委員會的運作狀況那麼專案報告會去就是涉及到召委的排案那當然如果說提書面報告並經同意就是一定要同意那有同意的過程一定要排到我們的司法法制委員會那像今天就是排 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
20159.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
20177.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
報告事項要經報告而且同意了才能動之但是如果是專案報告可能會變成召委在排案的時候還要就本案的一個專案報告所以跟提案委員商量一下如果說這邊寫提出書面報告並經同意這樣的方式可否接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
20178.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
20205.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
對不起沒有辦法接受喔因為喔要做專案報告的還不少啊你反正做專案報告的時候你合併包在一起就好了嘛那我為什麼說書面報告沒有辦法接受剛昭偉花了不少的時間帶大家看總統府113年度一般行政預算解凍書面報告嘛那我就以第一案這不是我的提案啦但是昭偉要花時間讓我們大家看去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
20206.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
20232.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
被凍結了以後你們今天送來給司法法制委員會的書面報告那我們就認真看這個書面報告吧那書面報告針對三個委員對於加強資安防護網進行檢討與規劃本府說明總共有三點第一點落實之通安全管理法應辦事項分就策略面管理面技術面及人員操作面說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
20232.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
20246.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
策略面是加強風險評估政策程序和法規遵循包含風險處理資料保護及資安法尊應辦事項第二是管理面加強組織和人員作業程序供應商管理包含擬聘支通安全維護計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
20248.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
20267.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
人員安全培訓、治安集合、評估供應商和合作夥伴之風險等第三點是技術面強化資料安全、網路安全、緊急應變和復原計畫包括資料加密、存取、控制、眾生防護、入侵、偵查、零信任架構及中整式治安監控等提高系統韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
20268.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
20287.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
第四個是人員操作面加強社交工程演練資安意識提供包含競體更改密碼密碼物貼隱密及不明事件連結物點等資安要項等強化宣傳座位我老實講我看完這個書面報告了以後我不知道當初提案委員的心情跟感想是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
20288.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
20309.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
但是我作為一個第三者看到這樣子一個書面報告是交這種作文來有什麼意義啊根本沒有針對問題回答那或許從總統府的標準來講這個是一個內容非常精彩的書面報告完全針對委員所關心的事項非常切重要點的提出非常具體的答覆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
20310.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
20319.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
但是從我一個第三者的觀點來看我看的是這個書面報告真的是空泛抽象我還不好意思講空洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
20322.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
20345.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
這個是為什麼我之所以堅持要用專案報告而不是書面報告的方式以上說明謝謝,謝謝委員那其他委員有沒有一些其他的意見那麼本案是不是這樣子我們這個部分目前的提案委員是提書面報告並經同意後使得凍支那是凍結一成就是19659000元那請問列席機關代表或者其他委員覺得這個決議是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
20350.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
20350.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
其他委員呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
20354.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
20364.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
我覺得就尊重提案委員因為這個凍結的部分確實現在我們只有3名戰略顧問只有3名提專案報告謝謝那我們提案2的部分我們就凍結10%提專案報告並經同意後值的凍結好謝謝接下來我們就是進行那個有關水電費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
20384.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
20396.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
那水電會的部分呢因為第3案已經測案了第4案呢因為呃這個是黃委員已經報告說明過了那第5案是翁委員的提案請問羅志強委員哎翁委員到了你要自己說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
20404.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
20417.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
其實第4案、第5案都是針對這個特別水電的部分那我們可以看到明年總統府水電預算編列是2914萬比2024年增加649萬元成長將近30%其中電費是從這個編列是2788萬元那就要去年的這個2139萬元增加678萬元算是非常大幅度的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
20433.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
20448.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那當然民進黨一直在講說因為電費增加可是事實上今年電價平均調整是11%那總統府為什麼要增加30%的電費那民進黨現在的電力能源政策我們向來是不認同因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
20449.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
20473.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
他大量使用成本高的燃氣跟綠能然後一定要排除掉比較便宜的核能這個部分是能源的上位政策我們非常不認同但是沒辦法民進黨是執政黨嘛你一定要採取這種所謂的捨便宜然後捨國際趨勢然後去為了這個捍衛蔡英文的所謂非核家園所以你一定要這樣硬幹我們真的也拿你們沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
20474.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
20500.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
但是如果你真的要這樣選一個比較昂貴的一個所謂的一個發電的一個方式那能不能賴總統可不可以帶頭先來去節約用電那我看到總統府這樣編預算就想起以前以前我在總統府的時候看到馬總統府分享一下那時候怎麼做馬總統08年上任的時候是力推節能減鈦當時行政院提出了省油省電省紙省水的四省政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
20500.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
20510.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
那各級政府機關總用電連8年連續減少到2015年結電的率達到10.7%那行政院暨所屬機關總結電率更達到15.3%那馬總統也是要求那時我們的總統府辦公盡量少開冷氣那中興寓所當時月平均的用電量比陳水扁時期的預算關底是減少88% |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
20526.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
20542.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
所以那時候其實是總統帶頭以身作則在節電這時候他在府內辦公御所休息是不管災熱他是不開冷氣有一次我到他的也常常到他小會議室開啦開會啦那我想那個副秘書長應該也知道就總統旁邊有個小會議室 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
20544.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
20565.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
不管天氣災熱他最多就開電風扇他還跟我講說我沒有開冷氣但吹電風扇也很涼好然後就開始跟我分享他夏天不開冷氣的心得我印象很深刻當時林靜雅怎麼罵馬英九這種節電的行為他說因為馬英九就是晚上不開冷氣睡覺不開冷氣腦袋才燒壞了他沒有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
20567.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
20583.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
確定這個截電的自以身作則的截電還反而罵說就是因為不開冷氣腦袋才燒壞掉但是沒有關係我跟各位說本期也沒有要求或期待賴清德總統做到像馬總統這個樣子並沒有完全沒有但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
20584.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
20611.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
能不能還是能夠以身作則好盡量的去節省所謂的總統府的用電帶頭示範那不要說遇到說今天電費增加你的能源政策造成電費增加那你就兩手一攤我電費增加我當然預算就要增加那你起碼有誠意一點跟我講說不行電費即便即便因為我們能源政策錯誤電費要增加但我總統府跟你講我電費都不增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
20612.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
20632.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那你做到這一點的話我們就想說那起碼你會就是用心來配合今天你錯誤的能源政策的後果你也會來承擔去面對啊可是今天我看到這個電費的那個預算的編列我說真的我覺得是說不過去所以不管是翁小林委員的提案或黃國昌委員的提案我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
20633.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
20651.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
要把這個所謂的水電費這些部分把它剪裂我覺得也剛好宣誓今天我們賴清德總統今天帶頭做節能的一個非常好的一個宣誓示範以上好那麼翁委員由於那個我們現在先處理水電您的第6案也是水電的部分你要不要一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
20653.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
20672.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
其實我五六案的意思是一樣的只是在第六案裡面又有再多寫了一個水費那這兩個提案的這個意旨都是因為有看到113年到就是114年這次提的學電費的經費預算比113年要多成長30%認為這是非常不合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
20675.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
20679.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
那麼雖然說是這個台電虧損啊這個預期電費會漲價可是也沒有漲幅這麼高更何況政府機關就是要供體時間節約用電啊今天這個錯誤的這個能源政策造成電費高漲然後卻還要再讓人民這自己我們自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
20693.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
20693.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
好,那請專委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
20720.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
20741.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
好,謝謝主席。我想到想來救教一下我們總統府副秘書長。凍結這個公帑的一個支出當然是合理啦。但是我看蔡黨朋友就提到說什麼你們要為這個政策來付出。我想我們今天審的是預算啦。是有沒有浪費的一個問題啦。倒不是你們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
20742.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
20757.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
單負什麼經濟部或者整個國家能源政策他那個要缺失要去檢討那是另一件事情了所以說增多增加的將近這二三十趴這個部分你們的預估到底是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
20758.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
20778.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
你說你說整個機關裡面的一個運作你說不給水電那當然這個這個講不通啊不給水電費這個講不通只是說你這個增加出來了當然國會這個地方可能會要你們來做一個說明這個部分是不是也跟委員會這邊做說明也可以跟其他提案的委員一併做說明好請機關代表說明好謝謝委員謝謝主席那總統府這邊說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
20788.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
20807.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
為什麼明年度的預算變略大概也比今年度增加28%因為今年跳漲了兩次電價這個4月的時候漲了14%那就7月的時候漲了17%這樣加起來就是31%了這是第一個說明第二個說明我看到羅志強委員已經先離席了 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
20808.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
20824.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
不過陳如他剛講的總統府從108年開始推動節能減碳政策之後總統府現在的用電量平均每年大概在520萬度上下並沒有很明顯的漲幅那這個也比108年 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
20826.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
20836.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
之前結電的55%所以總統府是有在做節能減碳的這是第二點那第三點我還是要強調台灣的電價比起相關周邊的國家其實沒有比較貴謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
20841.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
20867.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
好那請問委員會有沒有什麼其他意見因為我正跟委員會說明一下之前我們省機關預算的時候如果是水電費的部分那之前的處理方式因為都是通案會在院會前會做協商因為行政機關機關不只只有一個單位而也是全部所有的單位都有水電費同樣的情況那是我委員會同意我們第四五 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
20868.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
20895.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
六、水電會的部分我們三個案保留送院會協商原理辦理所以這個就保留嗎?那這個是確定保留嗎?對啊對啊就是確定保留我們就不再回來處理啦不會到第二輪又突然不保留了喔?沒有沒有沒有我們如果說是暫保留是暫保留所以這個確定保留嗎?欸就是保留送沒有關係我只要確認這個事情就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
20896.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
20924.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
因為我們都會尊重在提案委員那尤其是翁委員提案很多剛剛等到他回來我們再開始處理他的提案好謝謝那我們第4563案我們保留送院會前協商那接下來是業務費物品的部分一共有翁委員的提案789都是屬於事務費向下物品跟事務費那是不是請翁委員做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
20925.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
20937.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
好,針對第7案的部分呢主要是這個有看到在1、2年的總統府的決算資料有關於物品數的部分當時的預算雖然是編列的是1610萬但是決算只花了1300多萬那麼所以本來就還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
20944.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
20973.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
就等於說多編啦但是少花那在今年度的情況之下我們認為說你既然之前的112年都沒有花那麼多那114年為什麼要比113年還要再多增加那增加看起來也沒有這個必要性所以我在這裡就是提出要檢列92萬然後凍結100萬然後要並且這個要提出專案報告之後才可以凍結那麼在第這是我的第7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
20976.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
20994.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
那第8案的情況呢同樣的也是針對這個就是環境就是有關於環境清潔的管理作業費用檔案數位的典藏掃描建檔等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
20996.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
21017.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
第三項是各個會議活動布置場地、載運作業、委外經費這些都暴增了,逐年都暴增很多錢,很多的經費這些經費的提高也沒有具體的說明所以我這裡也是基於凍結工廠支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
21018.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
21028.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
提出就要檢列200萬然後凍結200萬這在會議布置的部分那就整體而言的話就是檢列400萬凍結400萬那麼在第9案的部分則是針對這個開放總統府開放參觀與志工經費及辦理音樂會那麼在這個案子裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
21047.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
21051.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
其實可以看到他們在過去這些年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
21055.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
21065.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
因為很多的工作項目幾乎都是共用的而且只辦理了一場的音樂會在近4年裡面就有高達174萬每年編的費用的不同的價差所以我們認為說其實辦理音樂會的錢是可以再節省不需要花這麼多的經費去辦理音樂會 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
21083.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
21094.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
那麼在這裏提出要檢列150萬凍結100萬然後兩個月內要提出專案報告告訴我們說你們到底班林音樂會的具體內容是什麼好這以上好謝謝來那莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
21097.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
21122.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
這個翁委員這個案子我就有不同的一個意見了你像比如比如說總統府啊那你說在第8案這些這些預算啊在我看起來這叫做台無肉啦就代表你這總統府啊沒錢讓我們台人在想救的啊你像比如說你你那個257萬你就不要認為是一個暴增啦這個跟各部會來做一個比較的話其實是非常小的一個數目啦那至於說你說音樂會你說100多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
21125.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
21146.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
有時候你叫我來辦一場造詩我花的搞不好都不止300萬所以音樂會看什麼樣的一個性質只是說公帑的部分我們大家盡量去節省反而我倒鼓勵總統府如果可以辦出一些更有意義的大型的一個活動的話國人反而是期待的你說這個音樂會你說立法院你就叫一個比較大的來國際巨星你就辦在台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
21153.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
21171.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
21171.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
21182.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
但這是說你為地方你辦了一場活動以後你帶來的是有多大的一個效益這一些才是重點啊不然在這整個委員會只有在這傾這個幾百萬這種感覺這個笑掉人家的大牙啦那你去講說他到底有沒有去除非你認為說他是胡編或者你認為說辦這場活動是完全沒有意義將來省這個預算我相信可能會比較好一點啊否則的話這個實在是省總統府的現在7年以外沒有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
21200.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
21201.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
總統府做一個說明也跟歐盟做一個說服 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
21211.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
21232.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
好那請機關代表請好謝謝主席莊委員翁委員這個我就每個案子簡短說明關於這個翁委員提第7案的部分主要增加一點點預算的部分其實是因應物價的調整所以這個我是希望委員能夠討論是否能夠用凍結我們提出書面報告之後來解凍因為這個真的是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
21233.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
21260.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
這是每個公務員平常會用到的行政書物的事情關於第8案委員提到的清潔跟檔案的費用我倒是要拜託委員能夠檢查清潔的部分主要是委外人力因為總統府的工友受於中央機關學校工友辦法的規定欲缺是沒有辦法補足人力的所以總統府的工友 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
21263.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
21288.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
到明年我們預計又要再退休3個人那這個缺額會到達11個人所以這種不涉及民心的這種清潔的事務我們都都是用委外來處理所以包括這個清潔維護那這個場地佈置這些東西其實都是這個委外人力的這個薪水那這個例如清潔員大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
21289.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
21307.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
每個月我們也不會低於三萬兩千塊那這個公有或者是駕駛他們的薪水也有法定一定的規定那關於這個第8案這個掃描費的部分我跟委員會報告說明這個總府目前大概還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
21310.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
21324.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
大概還有65萬頁左右的檔案需要電子化掃描那我們過去幾年的經驗今年確實是明年度確實是比今年多變了一些錢不過以今年來講我們編列的200萬那掃描的大概是54點 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
21326.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
21326.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
免費預算免費預算免費 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
21346.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
21366.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
能夠把總統府目前現有未掃描的檔案能夠都電子化之後那可以把庫房的空間再騰出來在資源跟能源上面做更有效的運用所以可能建請委員會在這個提案8的部分能夠不予以凍結或刪除因為這個確實是很實際的一個問題那關於這個委員提到總統府音樂會的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
21372.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
21389.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我相信委員在場很多委員都有辦過活動啦,稱如剛剛莊委員所講的250萬要辦一場這個上千人的活動其實其實是相當擷取的齁那總統府每一年的音樂會其實都在不同縣市辦。像今年其實就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
21391.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
21408.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
總統紀念堂兩廳院那過去也曾經到這個高雄流行音樂中心新竹那甚至彰化等等地方所以250萬的部分除了這個會開放這個民眾之外其實也會邀請在地的一些弱勢的團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
21409.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
21433.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
小朋友或者是社福機構的人來參與那表演的團體除了一些盡量我們在有限的預算當中請一些比較知名的這個表演團體之外我們也會給在地的表演團體登上總統府音樂會舞台的空間所以這個是一個總統府過去曾經有在2016年之後恢復舉辦的活動我們也希望透過這樣子這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
21436.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
21439.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
議員提出報告,經委員會同意之後再行使動之。以上說明。好,那麼先請翁委員再來沈委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
21462.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
21467.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
我這邊要講的是先從第9案的剛剛講的音樂會因為你這個整個經費是邊在這個開放參觀自供經費及辦理音樂會總共是720萬元可是以你們過去光是辦這個音樂會的項目來講這每一年的情況不太一樣那而且就是你們有沒有具體提出你們辦的音樂會的效果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
21487.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
21514.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
21515.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
21536.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
從110年開始當時的這個清潔費用還沒有太多增加112年、113年到114年是逐年增加都100多萬、100多萬那你們到底是多增加了哪些人?其實總統府就這麼大因為它是歷史古蹟它也不可能擴建那麼要清潔的地方不都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
21541.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
21557.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
到底是什麼原因然後以至於他的這個費用逐年都要提高一百多萬這我是不理解然後您剛剛講說有關於檔案掃描的部分你110年到113年當時都是編兩百兩百萬那看起來應該已經也掃描的檔案已經也差不多了吧到114年現在從原來的掃描的這個經費只要兩百萬然後又增加到三百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
21571.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
21588.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
是還有這麼多的檔案需要進行數位掃描嗎?掃描不是是你們要買更多的掃描機器還是要怎麼樣的去做這個就是你們要怎麼樣去規劃要去這個去 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
21595.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
21606.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
去做這個建檔這是我不太理解因為像我們建的不是就是一個掃描機然後員工自己去建檔就好了好這邊麻煩請說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
21607.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
21626.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
跟委員報告那個等一下那個有審委員要先發言好先回答好跟委員報告那個掃描的部分齁因為現在要掃描的檔案大概都是民國95年以前的檔案那大家也知道95年以前以前的檔案很多是直式的然後兩頁的他並不像我們現在一個掃描機器然後甚至他是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
21627.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
21628.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
預算一股作氣把65萬頁全部掃描完以上補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
21657.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
21668.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
我剛還漏講一個就是有關於會議布置的這個經費也是你112你113年到114年這是都明顯暴增對113年暴增了462萬然後114年又在在這基礎上面又在暴增257萬這是這個同樣的那個邏輯就是總統府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
21680.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
21697.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
會場就這麼大然後你活動布置啊然後這個在運作業應該都差不多他每年幅度應該不會有明顯的增加那為什麼明年就要增加這麼多這也是我不理解的地方好要先回答還是陳委員要先詢問先回答陳委員請主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
21704.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
21706.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
我是這樣建議,因為這個剛剛莊委員也有說總統府這些預算其實數字都很小 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
21713.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
21740.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
這個有關於他們所爭裂的部分齁我剛剛也是希望說他們先說明這一個一個部分我們把它說明清楚齁這個包括說剛剛講說因為這個明年度有公有公有在退休因此委員人力勢必要增加所以在這個部分他的這個支出有增加了等等那我是建議就是這些數字這樣子是不是我們檢都就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
21741.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
21760.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
盡量就不要不要給他們檢列了那就用凍結的方式用凍結的方式呢另外呢我這個這個對於專案報告的部分我覺得說像這樣子這個一般行政這個辦公室紙張掃描這個也要排專案報告我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
21760.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
21788.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
有一點是不是這些部分因為他不涉及像剛剛講戰略顧問那是因為你牽涉到牽涉到這個這個法制面對戰略顧問的他的他的依依價值他的職權相關的問題我覺得說做專案報告OK但是像這種一般行政一般行政這個基本工作基本行政工作一般事務費也要列專案也列專案報告的話那這真的是每一案專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
21791.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
21810.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
這個我是建議說這是不是改書面報告但是我們一樣書面報告在經同意之後指責凍結但是就不用為了這種一般行政費來排專案報告這個我想這個未來的這個召委會很困擾所以省委員來那個請我是建議說就是不要檢列不要檢列凍結然後改書面報告好那機關代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
21815.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
21836.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
好謝謝陳委員跟翁委員的意見我再仔細說明一下就是說剛剛翁委員提到說為什麼明年這個在清潔費用的部分還要增加大概250幾萬的部分第一個就是我們明年度的公有借退三個人那我們希望補一個委外的人力來 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
21837.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
21865.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
來補充這個工作所以一個人一年的薪水大概就是70萬那假時借退兩個人所以我們希望補兩個假時來補足那兩個人兩個人合計一年的薪水大概就是187萬5千所以兩個加起來大概257萬這個是實際的需求那包括這個人力的預算的人力的需求衍生的預算的需求以及這個同一個案子裡面掃描的需求這個都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
21866.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
21881.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
紮紮實實的我希望委員能夠同意不要刪解如果需要更細緻的資料我們可以提供更更更詳細的資料謝謝好請工委員我想請教如果說你說有工有退休駕駛退休那為什麼不補工有不補駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
21883.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
21907.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
委員還沒進來會議室之前我有先說明過依據這個中央行政機關學校的公有要點這個中央機關的公有沒辦法補這樣子不過你們這樣委外人力的話就是退一個補三個我覺得也補太多了吧退三個補一個那補一個的錢要花這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
21912.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
21927.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
一個工有兩個駕駛所以多兩百萬總統府的薪資很高欸一個工有跟委員報告他們的工作其實是蠻辛苦的啦對啊三個駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
21929.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
21946.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
等於說你們是不是總統三個人對不對?三個人三個人一個工有兩個駕駛三個人然後平均一個人的薪水是80萬一年對啊一年一年80萬所以一個月有6萬對但他們的工作勤務是比較繁重的這好像比我們立法院的加年終獎金啊對啊這個的駕駛還要薪水還要高很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
21955.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
21981.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
我想大家都希望目前從公務機關到民間企業受僱人員的薪資都希望能夠以予調升我想大概沒有委員會不認同這樣的一個做法但是實際要用多少錢還是要尊重我們委員會的決定那現在有委員在場建議我這樣說明一下跟委員說明目前這三個案加起來簡列金額大約是642萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
21984.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
21993.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
凍結金額是600萬元那其實總TOTAL大概是4000因為1500加2600大概4200萬元總經費大概這6個案的原編列經費是不到4200萬元那如果凍600多然後凍600減600多那加起來1200那也是將近三分之一也是相對可觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
22011.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
22040.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
那因為剛剛有委員提議說是不是免於剪裂那與凍結那提議順便報告後經同意使得凍之那麼這樣子因為這些費用的都是逐月要支出的這個都逐月要支出的是不是委員同意因為為了避免凍結造成他們的實際之用的影響那麼如果以這樣的凍結數600萬4200萬凍600萬大概是凍七分之一等於是到10月的時候如果沒有解凍11、12月就會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
22041.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
22054.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
那麼這個部分是不是可以徵委員會徵求我們這三個提案是不是可以免於免於簡略然後與凍結好因為凍結數相當高請問你在講的是第幾案到第幾案到789三個案就翁委員的提案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
22061.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
22084.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
是,我可以表達意見我的建議就是說是還是減一些費用啦因為確實是編的就是過高你看我的提案單裡面我都寫得很清楚那有些部分的話是當省則省那麼像是剛剛講的這種什麼活動場地佈置費用啊然後再運作業費用這些都是真的是編的過高 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
22085.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
22098.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
對那你說清潔人力元額這個地方因為你們現在人力不足好吧那這地方還勉強那就不要檢列100但是你後面的這個第二項跟第三項我認為其實是要檢列好所以就這個部分來講的話我的具體建議是說在第8案這邊就檢列150萬然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
22112.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
22133.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍!凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
22133.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
22159.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
王委員,我跟您建議,他這個總統府編這個預算我辦公室也都看過啦其實他這個也沒有看到他撫編啦那金額真的也不大啦那這個部分一個憲政機關裡面其實也是國家的一個指標啦好好監督他們是對啦但是預算這個部分來跟各部會來看的話這個其實都是小額科啦這個讓你大費周章在這邊上審有點捨不得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
22161.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
22164.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
因為我認為說總統府應該要起帶頭的作用從總統開始就要這個節約能源然後節省公帑我認為這個其實應該啦對啦所以就除了凍之後也要濁山啦這個因為我這裡都寫得很清楚有些費用其實不是很合理然後如果從這個這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
22186.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
22199.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
對阿!是阿!依依防國昌及翁小玲嘅喬索你去跟台製下去這樣拼多久你倆是很沒面子的你知不知道希望你下次可以推薦我到交通委員會嗎我一直很想過去都過不去你等下金卡仲敦煥拜託還可以推薦你做大家關係的不知道對 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
22208.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
22235.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
你這樣害人你要推薦他去當大法官然後你們再封殺人家這樣就對了你這樣子不好啦你這樣子讓敦煥推薦他去當大法官然後你們民進黨再全部把人家封殺掉啊你拍啊你拍看啦你那個藍白人手人就比我還多啊你最近還笑到這裡來我是去跟行政衝到館你知不知道啊你會猜這個辦法嗎你走出去你用手我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
22236.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
22252.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
那我也沒辦法我們這...沒有啦,這樣啦,我們講實際啦沒有啦,沒有啦,雖然你這樣說如果連幾百萬都被你講成這個樣子,那等一下真的是沒有退讓的空間了啦不是,因為我看這個預算齁,我知道翁委很認真在看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
22252.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
22273.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
那我們看完以後我們也真的發現的是說他是三無可三啦沒其他這總統府預算的不可以拼幾批人的啊要拼一堆去這很公開透明啊但就是這幾樣的一個預算而已啊別的部會裡面三個一分這麼大份啊他三個怎麼幾頁而已啊啊所以我的意思就是你像你提那個我都贊同啊但是我是說因為我們也沒辦法去精算你說啊你那個欸欸說什麼你那個工作人員多少的你也要精算 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
22282.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
22308.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
擔心算這個就這一砍下去這個就有損那你這個長期以來建立的一個專業在這個預算裡面因為這一筆你就會破工掉實在是會捨不得你在其他場合都不是這樣講話我想在789案要不要這話我就具體建議是不是就是就還是要檢列200萬然後凍結可以凍結少一點啦好不好凍結200萬好這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
22315.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
22325.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我跟你講要保留我們黨團會在我看這個一般行政這個是大家最容易打成共識的部分就連這個一般行政的部分就卡住 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
22327.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
22338.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
對阿因為我這邊講的其實在剛剛講的像委外的佈置費用阿還有數位典藏掃描建檔這邊都還可以再左撿一些嘛。是789案合併凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
22343.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
22363.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
兩百然後刪除兩百那我可不可以見請委員會做成決議凍結的部分我們提書面報告然後但是刪除的部分是不是保留送朝野協商然後凍結是指凍結哪一塊等一下等一下如果刪除要送朝野協商的話那你就乾脆不要退了就通通都保留好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
22365.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
22380.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
要保留嗎?好啦 那個我們7、8、9、3案保留齁那因為第10案剛剛黃委員已經說明了那第11案撤案第12案呢溫委員部分也是國外旅費那是不是溫委員是凍結90%是不是請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
22401.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
22423.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
這個114年度的總統府預算案總統府是準備要考察澳洲國家與原住民族的和解及合作所以編列了50萬那麼要拜訪澳洲人權委員會還有和解澳洲等等機關團體可是蔡英文總統在105年所設置的這個轉型正義原住民族歷史正義與轉型正義委員會已經這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
22427.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
22456.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
已經停止運作了之後就由行政院原住民委員會來繼續推動那麼再加上賴總統所宣布113年宣布的這個氣候變遷委員會、健康財務委員會還有這個全社會防衛任性委員會、三大委員會等等所以呢認為說在出國考察事項基本上是跟賴總統的施政重點是不一樣認為說沒有必要再去澳洲進行考察以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
22458.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
22486.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
好,那麼因為這個案子之前那個黃委員是做檢列全數檢列那翁委員這邊是50萬7千是凍結9成那是不是請機關代表說明後我們就處理那這樣的話我可以這個複義黃國昌委員的就是就檢列的意思對,就全部檢列嘛全部檢列好,那麼機關代表我這樣說明因為我們國外的旅費其實也都通案送院會朝野協商那您這邊可以說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
22487.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
22505.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
好那個謝謝兩位委員我第一個我先回復黃國昌委員確實這個國外旅費並不是總統國事訪問的費用然後這第一個那第二個這個明年度編列的這個澳洲的訪問的計畫這個除了剛剛這個我們的預算書上面提到說我們希望跟澳洲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
22506.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
22526.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
我原住民族的人權的相關的機關有交流的機會之外那畢竟雖然原轉會在總統府已經停止運作回歸到行政院來處理後續的事項但是原住民族主人的一些權益的保障跟更多的神話我們總統府有總統的高度應該還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
22527.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
22556.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
要持續關心此外大家也很清楚這幾年台灣跟澳方的合作不會只有在人權或者是原住民族的事務之上所以如果這個預算獲得支持的話大概也會有相關的行程安排另外跟委員報告這個編列的50萬7千元大概是以這個三個人6天來做計算我知道黃國昌委員都會問說一個人平均花多少錢這樣算下來大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
22556.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
22584.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
一個人大概兩萬多塊應該不是一個太這個太太多的一個金額預算報告好那麼來黃委員那個我其實是提醒一下我們的行政部門就是說出國考察的目的地跟出國考察的計畫我預算審到今天我有一個很深的感覺就是你們一定欠缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
22586.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
22588.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
我先具體請教一下你們今年的國外考察是去哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
22616.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
22625.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
跟委員回覆我本來預定是要去日本考察估計但是沒有執行所以今年去日本考察估計就沒有必要執行因為大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
22626.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
22652.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
五二零之後非常忙碌所以沒有執行這個預算所以對你即使沒有去日本考察古蹟對我國古蹟的維護應該沒有任何的傷害嗎我們當然是希望能夠考察之後能夠讓總統府的古蹟維護做得更好是是但是你即使沒有去對一定是日治建築我們這個是是是所以你到目前為止雖然沒有去日本考察古蹟應該對總統府的古蹟沒有傷害嗎不能你也不能這樣講齁這個有點反向邏輯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
22655.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
22677.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
好 謝謝因為我們委員會之前在審到國外旅會的部分我們的原則通案是通案保留送院會協商國外旅會的部分委員會是我們做這樣的決定OK嗎就保留嘛對啊就直接宣布保留就好啦因為我是建議那個主席啦就 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
22678.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
22695.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
看等一下預算審查要不要順暢一點我們說明完了他們回覆他們接受不接受他們不接受就保留這樣子會比較順暢也不要像耽誤像莊委員這樣子為了幾百萬他整個下午都坐在這邊其實也是很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
22697.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
22711.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
其實我們每個委員會都很認真在審議預算的啦我想剛剛各位委員這麼認真討論預算的情況透過我們轉播讓公民團體知道我們是很用心不分黨派立場對於總統府的預算我們都嚴審 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
22712.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
22732.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
因為之前已經有這樣的做法了所以關於關於旅費的部分我們通案保留送院會協商接下來第13案因為黃委員已經說明了14案也是那這裡面包括了設備包括了資訊那麼是不是翁委員的15案以及17案和18案是不是請翁委員一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
22735.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
22749.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
針對第15案的部分是總統府那麼他在資訊服務費的地方我們看到他其實每一年的這個成長幅度也非常高他110年的時候當時編了3862萬110年然後就提高200萬要變成4085萬112年然後就多增加了將1000萬變成5200多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
22764.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
22775.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
一千到113年的時候仍然是大概就是有增加差不多100萬5300萬但是呢到了下年度就是114年的預算突然又增加到6500萬為什麼從112、113年當時這個從111年到112年當時為什麼多增加1000萬就 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
22787.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
22798.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
就是因為我當時還不是立法委員所以我不清楚為什麼要多增加這1000萬那可是呢從今年到下年度竟然還要再多增加1000萬的這個資訊服務費這個我們認為說這個預算成長幅度驚人並不是很合理而且我們有查詢政府電子的採購網的絕標資料有發現你們的這個資訊服務費呢大部分都是限制性招標而且都是單一廠商投標 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
22815.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
22836.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
到決標金額又都是以底價金額決標而這其實就已經是不合理了那麼我們不免懷疑是不是由公部門作為業主他看廠商之間形成了一種和諧的共生夥伴關係所以呢經費是年年成長那在這個地方我們就認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
22839.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
22857.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
政府機關總統府還是要帶頭做示範要尊潔工廠支出而且同時要強化部門的溢價能力有效的去控制經費膨膨漲的速度所以我們提出來要剪裂一成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
22859.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
22878.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
這個資訊服務費用由現在的原來的預算經費是6028萬減列一成就是要減列600萬左右那以尊潔支出以上而且還有兩個月內要向司委會要提出專案報告經同意之後才可以動之謝謝好那麼翁委員剛剛三個提案都已經說明完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
22887.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
22904.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
那第17案的話這是一個委辦費就是要委託辦理AI資安相關議題的研究費那麼事實上這個114年編列的這個AI資安的委託研究經費比往年要高要成長幅度 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
22905.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
22907.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
這個多了38%那麼雖然說整體的委辦費用96萬并不是很高的錢只是不明瞭為什麼只是多了一個AI兩個字那麼這個經費就暴漲那麼在之前的這個看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
22923.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
22947.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
資安相關議題的研究費是每一年都有編只是下一年度多增加了AI這兩個字然後就這個經費成長38%所以我們認為也不清不楚這個為什麼要增加這個支出的工作計畫內容為何沒有寫清楚他有什麼必要性所以我們在這裡提出要檢列26萬並且凍結20萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
22952.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
22956.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
接下來還有就是您剛說是21案嗎?我剛是講的是17案還有18案抱歉18案的部分同樣是在資訊軟體設備的地方那麼這個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
22978.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
22982.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
也是看到這5年來的預算金額從110年當時只編了2200多萬那麼到了114年就暴增到4399萬等於到4400萬那5年來的預算從2000萬暴增到4000萬成長幅度相當的驚人所以不知道這個資訊軟液體的設備費是去 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
23008.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
23028.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
這為什麼編了這麼高的錢那麼同時呢就像我剛剛之前所說的我們查詢政府電子採購網的決標資料都有發現你們都大部分都是限制性招標然後單一廠商投標決標金額又是以底價金額決標然後底價金額跟預算金額大概都有5%到10%的這個差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
23035.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
23046.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
所以看起來這確實是讓人質疑是不是現在已經政府部門跟廠商之間形成了一個長期的共生夥伴關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
23049.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
23068.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
說白一點就是是不是總統府也開始餵養這些廠商那這是我們感到懷疑的地方那也要說明就是為什麼在114年的經費要大幅成長所以我本席在這裡是提出要剪裂一成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
23070.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
23073.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
預算經費3減440萬,同時凍結500萬等到提出專案報告之後才可以凍支。以上說明,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
23090.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
23101.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
朋友是不是請教一下齁,剛剛聽機關列席代表說你們現在要找一個工友然後一年是78萬一年70萬一個月大概6萬塊處理13.5那是多少錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
23111.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
23130.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
對啊因為可是我看你們的公有因為我剛聽到這樣的薪水我老實講啦給基層的工作同仁提高勞工待遇我向來是都支持總統府可以帶頭示範也非常好但我看一看這個這個這個你們現在公有的那個徵選的那個公告你月薪開多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
23144.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
23169.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
是大概就是3萬出頭吧?阿怎麼跟剛剛你講的那個數字差很多?3萬2以上,然後還要再加勞健保,對阿然後所以這樣加起來一個月可以有10萬多以上了嘛所以一個月可以有5萬塊?沒有啦,我就講具體一點啦,因為我對數字是很敏感的一年70萬,那這樣子一個月多少錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
23173.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
23189.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
那麼副秘長你這個是不是請熟悉事務工作的人因為現場不是每個人都當過那個資方僱主啊因為僱主會告訴你啊70多萬的話那個勞健保那個退休的提撥啊大概就占到10多萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
23190.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
23211.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
那請秘書工作的負責主管自我介紹一下然後說明是香港主席跟各位委員報告我是總統府第三局局長古文健那麼剛才這個委員隨行的這個部分這個我們委外的這個工友是透過這個委外的公司來替我們提供那剛才這個費用是包括是人民派遣嗎是台銀共同契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
23214.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
23239.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
所以是人力派遣嗎?是人力派遣,對。人力派遣這種非典型的勞動現在持續在用就對了?因為我現在看,現在看的你剛剛說最少3萬2?這個就是符合我們現在的這個基本工資。然後3萬2勞健保還有管理費。所以你管理費是要給那個人力派遣公司的是不是?對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
23241.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
23269.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
所以你這樣加起來一個人一個月的成本大概多少錢大概五萬塊大概五萬塊 五萬多一點的那所以乘起來就是大概六十 七十左右好好好還有沒有要其他說明的因為這個資訊設備的部分那其他委員好那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
23271.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
23275.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
檢列的部分跟保留的部分基本代表覺得可以接受嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
23276.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
23304.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
我補充幾點第一個我回覆那個黃委員第13案講到這個空調系統這個跟委員報告希望能夠凍結不刪除因為空調系統總統府的空調系統已經用了21年那是從今年開始逐步要汰換因為總統府的管線是非常老舊大家都知道這個建築物非常的老我也相信說空調系統更新之後雖然這是一筆投資但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
23305.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
23329.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
錢花了之後對於節能減碳用新的設備必然會有比較好的效果所以希望委員可以支持那關於翁委員的提案這個翁委員很多的提案也謝謝委員的指教尊潔支出能夠有更強的溢價能力這個我都支持而且接受但是我必須跟委員說明在第15案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
23332.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
23351.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
114年度編列了60289000元,雖然較今年度編列的為多,但是總統府有77個內部員工使用的系統,從公文系統到婚商喜慶晚聯系統等等總共有70幾個系統都必須再做一定程度的資安升級。那這個6000多萬當中大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
23355.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
23379.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
有3500萬以上是使用政府的共同供應契約所採購那剩下的部分就是會用公開招標的方式所以我必須跟委員強調總統府不會有這個所謂的養廠商的問題這個我剛剛講的這個比例委員應該可以理解我們絕大多數是用共同供應契約來進行採購的 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
23381.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
23385.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
那一樣的道理在委員提的第18案 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
23398.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
23418.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
114年度雖然在這個資訊軟硬體設備費編列了4,399萬但一樣的就是說裡面大概也約莫會有這個2200萬以上是用公共供應企業來採購的剩下就是走公開招標的程序我必須強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
23419.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
23439.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
我都很認同我也很支持我有以身效由來做這個凍結開支但是絕對不會有總統府不會有這種不法的行為這是跟委員做說明那至於這個第17案AI的資安研究我這邊也做一個說明第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
23441.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
23451.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
嗯今年總統府做的AI的啊今年總統府做的這個資訊的相關的研究是在研究近年大家嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
23452.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
23470.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
很常在提及的政府的相關的資訊系統或是資料是否需要雲端備份今年是在研究這個那明年為什麼會比較多編列的20幾萬主要是因為要研究AI對於這個總府有可能的駭客的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
23471.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
23471.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
好,那麼翁委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
23500.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
23527.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
我剛剛聽了總統府這邊的說明如果說你們依照政府採購契約如果以15案來講大概3500多萬都是政府採購契約的規格那你另外2500萬是用政府的對外公開招標的方式去處理可是就是它整個成長幅度而且它的價值它的金額是真的是漲太多了吧對很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
23529.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
23540.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
這外面的企業部門他們就算是要系統upgrade要再做其他優化擴充等等這費用不會成長這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
23543.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
23567.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
而且就像我們剛剛一直在說就是你們總統府的人力規模也沒有增加跟我們資訊系統也都是差不多這幾年來應該也就是維持大概同樣的系統那你們到底增加你們要做什麼之用事實上確實從預算書裡面看不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
23568.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
23592.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
你們準備要提升些什麼項目那麼如果說再講到第17案剛剛聽到您說這個96萬主要是要做雲端備份的事情可是雲端備份不是本來就該做嗎這個還要花錢去做研究這我實在是也不理解而且這個研究經費是每年都在編嗎資安議題研究經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
23594.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
23614.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
我回復一下委員,這個確實這個像委員先觀念可能比較開放跟先進會認為政府也應該做雲端的備份這個我也認同但是總統府畢竟有很多機密的檔案或文件,適不適合應該用什麼方式做雲端備份確實是需要做一定程度的study,那這幾年因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
23615.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
23641.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
執安的問題大家非常重視所以過去這幾年其實都有編那個執安的研究的經費我懂的是說這個部分需要去委託外面的人來做研究嗎這不是你們自己內部自己去討論哪些該備份哪些就是說自己可能用文書影印的方式做保存這還需要花錢去請人家做研究這我感到比較奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
23641.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
23661.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
二所謂的雲端備份喔這個到底是用國內的可能的供應商或者是國際比較適合的供應商在在不同的供應商之間有沒有什麼可以確保可靠的技技術或者是安全的授權喔這個確實是需要一番的研究對啊並不是像我們一樣這個檔案傳過來我們就直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
23664.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
23675.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
上這個iCloud或是什麼就好了齁這個確實是需要一些專業的資源。我意思說其實總統府自己內部就有人才吧不然你們也請速發部可以進行機關的合作這很多錢是當審則審 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
23678.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
23706.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
對,如果說總統府內沒有資安人才去書發部請議啊書發部趕快來幫這個總統府分析一下也不需要把這個事情委外因為以前這等於是委外嘛到底我要用國外的廠商的系統還是用國內廠商系統的備份還要花96萬去做這其實不是把廠商叫過來然後大家講講說他能夠提供的什麼服務啊他的規格什麼就可以決定了我的看法是說即便他是個小錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
23707.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
23709.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
但是還是當審則審96萬也不少啊只是做這樣的研究謝謝委員跟委員會做說明目前我們處理的是第13案到第18案那都是屬於業務費當中包括資訊設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
23729.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
23754.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
及設備及投資雜項設備向下那整個預算的編列是1億12886千元剛剛出估目前這幾個案子委員天安委員要求檢列的金額將近1700萬要求凍結的金額超過3600萬那這個部分因為剛剛有委員建議說就這個金額來詢問在場委員跟機關代表有沒有可以接受或者是要另外處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
23756.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
23777.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
那請問站上委員覺得?其他委員覺得?好那機關代表呢?如果能夠保留的話我這個尊重委員會的決議好那所以我們從第13案來怎麼樣那個不好意思喔結論是保留我同意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
23779.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
23790.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
只是因為我很喜歡不是我很喜歡我習慣性的就會做事實查核因為你們現在總統府上面的公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
23791.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
23815.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
到公有現在是要徵普通公有9名嘛性別不拘嘛然後要在明年的1月2號以前以掛號的方式寄到臺北市重慶南路一段122號總統府第三局第五棵手嘛這應該是你們的徵求公有的公告吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
23816.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
23841.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
我們先確認一下事實好嗎可以可以可以上來上來這麼小的事情你一定不知道的那可以馬上有資料可以回覆還是需要不用啊因為這個是我剛剛在網路上面搜尋看到總統府的公告那個徵求已經報完了嘛但是這個徵求是總統府公告了沒有錯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
23843.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
23870.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
那奇怪你們剛剛跟我說最低是3萬2啊你們徵求薪資待遇為什麼月薪寫3萬0120那是明年的基本工資調整所以要再加上明年的基本工資調整所以就會跳到3萬2所以你們現在上面這個公告的內容就跟實際上面的狀況有點落差嗎那是之前的是嗎對啊但是你講之前但是你上面寫的徵求日期是到明年1月2號啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
23871.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
23895.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
沒有啦,我這樣講好了啦總統府有總統府的高度啦你放在總統府的網站上面你上面的資訊就盡量要寫對你懂我的意思嗎?就像剛剛昭緯所講的嘛有很多公民其實都在關心我們在這邊審預算嘛啊剛剛我就看上面關心的公民就有提出這樣的質疑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
23896.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
23919.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
我說老師那個總統府的網站上面明明就不是這樣寫啊那我一定會做查核啊不會有網友這樣跟我檢舉我馬上就相信嘛所以我上去看人家寫的沒人家講的沒有錯啊因為你在這邊報三萬二你總統府上面的公告是寫上萬啊你說基本工資調整這我可以理解啊但你旁旁一個總統府你在網頁上面公告的資訊要正確吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
23922.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
23935.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
來,機關代表請說明謝謝委員的提醒我想這個未來總統府可以精進的地方是如果有這種年頂的這部分可能可以加注說是實際的薪資是薪資調整的幅度這樣子我想比較不會容易引起誤會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
23937.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
23954.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
好謝謝我想因為有委員希望說我們如果是保留啊就直接說保留哈但是委員還是本期還是很尊重其他委員的補充說明哈所以我還是會讓委員的保留之前還要繼續說明嗎那個黃浩元你要繼續表示嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
23955.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
23983.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
好請第一個齁就是因為我對於你們那個資安議題相關研究我非常有興趣啊但是我剛找了半天我就找不到那個報告其實現在已經12月了嘛今年委外的報告應該出來了吧已經執行完啊那個報告可以給我嗎那個報告在哪裡啊我找了半天找不到我回去看一下如果沒有涉及名的部分我盡速提好好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
23984.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
24004.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
好所以呢我們剛剛再重述一次因為怕委員說講的不清楚第13案到第18案我們全案保留送院會協商那我們就做第一幕的說明第一幕一般行政提案案號第一案第18案 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
24005.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
24032.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
其中第1、31撤案其中第4到10案12到18案保留送協商那第一幕一般行政向下人員維持中人事費凍結196萬6千元是提出專案報告經同意後使得凍支那我想那個時間已經進到這裡我們暫時休息一個5分鐘讓相關的人員可以稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
24033.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
24044.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
鬆換一下那也跟大家報告因為我們本委員會我們不會說要弄到12點我們盡量就按照今天的表定時間也不會說到12點結果5點就跑掉了不會這樣子 那麼我們就休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
24653.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
24678.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
好 我們繼續開會好 那麼接下來呢 我們就進行第二幕第二幕是國務機要的部分那提案委員是黃委員 來請好 謝謝喔 那個國務機要費基本上面它的使用我看我們每一年總統府國務機要費編3000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
24682.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
24704.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
都是用好用滿因為我去索支我請你們給我從2020年到2024年8月國務紀要費詳細使用的狀況那我去索支了以後我拿到了幾張單子回覆是說2020年花了2999萬3千元2021年花了2999萬9千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
24713.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
24737.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
2022年花了2997萬3千元2023年花了2999萬9千元然後我希望知道花到什麼地方去那你們提供給我的回覆大概就是非常籠統的饋贈我看一下犒賞、獎助、慰問、贈禮 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
24743.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
24771.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
我想先把這個法律性質先搞清楚喔這個是機密的預算嗎?我不能都知道細目嗎?我依法論法啦先講清楚這個是機密預算嗎?那如果不是機密預算的話我為什麼不能夠知道細目?因為我非常好奇啊總統府一年花3000萬國務及要費花到什麼地方去? |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
24773.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
24785.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
然後我們在審查預算在監督預算的時候我唯一能夠看到的數字是政理比如說你講政理一年1200多萬到1500多萬靠賞一年1100多萬然後獎注有8有幾萬有2有幾萬慰問有400多萬800多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
24799.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
24825.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
然後我所知請總統府回覆然後你們就給我一張這樣子的單子我看了我老實講我不太能夠接受所以我想第一個事情請問這個是機密嗎第二件事情我也公開講過但是我公開講過總統府沒有任何的回應我公開講過什麼話 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
24830.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
24857.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
當初在馬政府時期的時候馬英九他是中國國民黨的黨主席總統可以做什麼事情黨主席可以做什麼事情當總統的這個機關他身兼黨主席的時候總統的這個機關是一個24小時的憲政機關任何時候任何地方他就是總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
24858.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
24880.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
為什麼這件事情重要當年在馬王政爭的時候馬英九是總統他化身為黨主席把手伸到國會裡面來那個時候我炒你了一份聲明那個聲明說他已經跨越了憲政民主的紅線我對那份聲明非常的熟 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
24881.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
24908.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
我對那篇聲明非常的熟但是上個禮拜發生在立法院的事件讓我非常的震驚我為什麼非常的震驚當你要癱瘓國會讓國會沒有辦法正常的運作你是在癱瘓我們在民主憲政體制下面行政立法相互監督制衡的機制結果竟然是執政黨的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
24909.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
24937.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
當夜的時候破窗破門直接癱瘓了國會甚至在第二天的時候到場外準備要放人進來癱瘓整個立法院癱瘓整個立法院破壞整個憲政民主機制的運作這件事情我公開的呼籲我認為賴清德總統作為民主進步黨的黨主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
24939.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
24960.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
縱容黨籍的立委去做這樣的事情我的邏輯一模一樣跨越了憲政民主的紅線我們現在在討論的並不是說公民衝進來是我們自己的國會議員要癱瘓這個國會的運作這個是我今天提這個案子最主要的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
24963.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
24989.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
好 那麼機關代表要回應的是國務及要費的性質是不是機密是不是機密預算那說了很多關於國會癱瘓的事情在2016年第9屆的立法院時代力量的立法委員將自己鎖在議場裡面那這個也看看是什麼屬性那麼至於2014年太陽花 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
24990.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
25005.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
跟這2013號的我不是很確定齁那麼民眾進入到立法院內那我想這個也是過去可供公眾公平的事情當時剛剛講到這兩件事情的當事人都在這個現場那接下來是請機關代表說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
25006.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
25022.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
好謝謝這個主席跟黃委員第一個國務及要費不是機密預算這是第一個那第二個這個國務及要費依照國務及要費作業要點也要送審計部這個審議這是第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
25023.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
25048.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
第三個是我也要跟委員會表達就是說過往國務及要費曾經有五千萬過然後一直到四千萬到現在最近幾年都是三千萬那從未被大院凍結或刪除所以我想立法院本於監督希望國務及要費這個能夠花不只要合法而且要花在道德上我可以尊重但是我也希望說這個國務及要費能夠予以保留謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
25051.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
25072.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
好 那麼請黃委員那個剛剛主席有垂詢我就直接講啦2014年那個時候的太陽花運動啊絕對跟當時的總統還有當主席啊絕對不會是他縱容也不會他下令要對抗的就是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
25074.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
25093.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
第二個那時候時代力量我們在議場裡面是針對勞基法抗爭放心也不是當時的總統蔡英文或是民進黨的黨主席蔡英文我們採取的是一個監督對抗在民主憲政機制下面你會有要拿比喻 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
25094.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
25111.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
那就請你類比正確但我今天沒有要坐在這邊跟我們的召委爭論這件事情要爭論這件事情我們各自回去開記者會通通都可以我現在監督的對象不是中加兵委員也不是召委所以我剛剛完全沒有質疑中加兵委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
25112.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
25132.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
那一天早上拿了油壓剪去把它剪斷是什麼意思我完全沒有提這件事因為你不是我監督的對象你為你個人的行為負責任就好了現在我坐在這邊我監督的你剛剛暗示總統有下指令啊我剛剛說是縱容啊所以我開記者會公開問啊賴清德總統認為這種行為是對的嗎容忍這種行為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
25142.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
25161.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
我不是今天才第一天提出這個問題我已經公開請教這件事了我沒有得到任何的回應啊第二個剛剛您說得很好啊立法院要監督嘛然後所以我問你們錢花到哪裡去啊結果你們給我這一張表如果你給我這張表我看完了以後就說這個寫得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
25171.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
25198.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
這些費用的支付通常都有必要那我必須要老實講是我作為一個國會議員遷都不利謝謝請莊委員但是在莊委員發言之前我想縱容這個詞呢他雖然是一個好像抽象的概念但是在法律行為上還是要有時尚的事證才能去提供支撐那這一點一併說明那接下來請莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
25200.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
25208.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
我在看啊,這個黃委員提到這個整個案件的國務紀要費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
25209.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
25233.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
我看你這裡是說檢列一千萬嘛,並凍結兩千嘛。這個定義都沒有這樣。其實對於總統府的監督,這個部分我表達尊重。但是去講說對於我們立法院參讀通過的法律、組決議、跨越民主憲政、紅線、下令民進黨及委員、暴力、方式、癱瘓,這個我就不認同。至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
25234.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
25262.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
我們在政黨之間在立法院的一個攻防甚至於對於三讀通過的法律大家看待都完全不同那這個不同也不是只有出於情緒大家都有經過一段的所理跟論述至少我本人我就沒有收到誰跟我說要下令要如何那我是認為對於政黨之間他的一個對抗跟政黨之間的一個攻防那其實是所採的策略會有所不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
25262.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
25287.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
所以我對於黃委員這一部分我覺得保留啦不過留比較緊啦討論沒得討論好謝謝莊委員莊委員剛剛有兩個部分啦一個是就剛剛我們在討論的一個法律概念這個縱容是否事先得知縱容是否有能力去拘束這個部分這個謝謝您的高見那麼第二個呢就是對於本預算本體的部分兼予保留那請問在當委員對於第二目國務機要予保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
25288.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
25304.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
可以同意好那麼第二幕呢我們收取個宣讀第二幕國務機要第19案保留送協商那麼接下來處理第四幕研究發展提案號第20案至24案那分別有黃委員跟翁委員那麼先請黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
25306.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
25335.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
第二項提案我其實今天早上在質詢秘書長潘孟安的時候我已經提出來我向來認為總統府的資政跟國策顧問是重要的國家名器是重要的國家名器在名片上面掛上總統府的資政跟掛上總統府的國策顧問在台灣社會上面走跳那個名片拿出去就有相當的重量 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
25336.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
25364.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
不管不管到底是有幾次還是無幾次這件事情為什麼重要在上一屆總統的時候他所聘的國策顧問我具體的點名就是秦家宏為了自己要賣股套利把我們國家的科學層物流搞到變成現在是紅色資本所控制這件事情我追非常久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
25365.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
25391.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
我追非常久啊追到民進黨的前秘書長洪耀福告我說絕對沒有在中央黨部秦家宏找國營事業的董事長來喬賣股的事情我敢講我就一定有證據對我提起刑事自述沒有關係到法院講直接被法院認證傳來國營事業的高層說有啊你可以去哪裡喬賣股 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
25394.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
25422.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
民進黨、中央黨部在場的有誰?有國策顧問秦嘉宏都寫在判決書裡全部都寫在判決書裡結果現在聘的國策顧問我今天早上提出來賴清德總統他的親舅舅可能在基隆那邊德高望重年紀也比較高基於尊重長者我就不提了 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
25424.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
25437.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
但是你把一個賣假藥的人那個是有刑事確定紀錄欸賣假藥聘為國策顧問請問是在散佈這個社會什麼樣的訊息賣假藥的人可以當國策顧問社會上面提出很多質疑提出強烈的批判但是台灣的憲政體制非常的奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
25455.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
25476.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
我們的總統根本不用回應啊賣假藥的人在當國策顧問這是什麼基準啊國會到底要怎麼監督還是總統愛聘誰就聘誰大家都不要提大家都不要講這件事情我無法認同啊我直接把它反映在 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
25481.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
25502.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
這個預算的提案上面凍結100萬、剪裂100萬這是第20案好 那麼因為接下來是翁委員的第21案還有23案以及24案翁委員要不要一併分別說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
25503.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
25508.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
我這邊針對21案的部分提出來就是針對總統府的這個研究及諮詢的預算的部分因為賴總統他其實宣布要成立三大委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
25520.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
25548.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
但是三大委員會到現在為止好像也沒有設置要點也不知道就是他和其他部會的運作的方式與架構那相較於蔡總統在他任內總統府也有設置五個任務編組的委員會可是都定有設置要點以及這個就是就比較清楚知道他跟其他部會的運作方式以及架構還有他的任務功能到底是什麼所以我在這裡呢就提出就是要凍結總統府的國家發展研究及資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
25549.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
25555.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
預算50%等到總統府向委員會提出書面報告之後才可以凍結23案及24案其實兩個案子是一樣的不好意思因為這個中間我們可能有些案有不同所以誤以為是不同的案那在這兩個案子裡面其實的重點就在於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
25579.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
25580.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
按日案件計酬的費用從112年 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
25595.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
25613.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
一百一十三年到一百一十四年其實就是暴增百分之三十六他原來是就現在是編了一百八十八萬但是在前兩年大概就差不多一百三十六萬到一百一十四年的時候呢就增加了五十萬提高了三十六 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
25616.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
25638.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
36%可是在預算書當中卻沒有清楚的說明為什麼要增加這麼多同樣的都只是邀請專家學者出席演講及審議稿經費那麼為什麼在這下一個年度要提高50萬那這個部分的話也沒有說清楚所以我在這裡就是提列就是結50萬並且凍結50萬然後待總統府提出報告之後才可以同意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
25643.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
25657.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
好接下來請莊委員好謝謝莊委我要來就教因為我總覺得這個預算我怎麼看都是非常小因為一百多萬那當然你這個預算你稍微增加一點的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
25658.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
25681.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
那個幅度就會感覺就很大一百多萬的預算你做了幾十萬你當然就會覺得是三四十八那是不是可以再說明一下那個你們大概的整個預算的一個支應的部分你像比如說你去邀請專家或者學者或者演講甚至於你們審議考這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
25682.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
25699.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
那性質到底是怎麼樣或者說一個必要性到底是怎麼樣或許說明完以後大家會覺得你們編列的太寒酸都不一定當然我們沒有辦法去做一個增加只是要來看看你們大約這整個預算的一個支出的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
25700.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
25723.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
好,在機關代表回覆之前請跟委員報告目前我們處理的是第20案到第23案那其中22案、24案已經撤案那目前預算書是表達在第38頁預算科目是國政規劃與諮詢和國政建言那麼剛剛三位委員垂詢的內容因為今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
25724.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
25750.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
下午是由張副秘書長代表機關因為上午張秘書長不在在這裡主席有義務幫忙說明一下在上午的業務報告跟預算諮詢當中委員有垂詢到包括知政的部分年事過高包括國策顧問有涉及到司法案件當然也包括了對於潘秘書長本身在現場任內跟相關產業業者的見面 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
25752.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
25771.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
那麼這分別剛剛因為委員有在重複提出不過呢因為最後一個部分潘秘書長唯一的當事在場的當事人是潘秘書長有特別以職務作為擔保那麼要求做出承諾不過因為剛剛黃委員並沒有早上的部分黃委員如何回應有興趣的朋友可以回去看一下錄影帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
25771.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
25800.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
那至於剛剛現在委員的意思是希望以同樣的兩案來要求做檢列預算的根據那這個部分請接班代表瞭解後來據實說明好謝謝主席謝謝這個三位委員的垂詢第一個我回復一下翁委員所提的就是為什麼在國政規劃諮詢增列了50萬其實它只有50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
25801.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
25824.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
主要是因應總統府成立的三個委員會的作業使用明年度總統府的委員會每個委員會三個月開是新同於每個月的一次委員會的召開所以有12場也跟各位委員報告就是說在今年賴總統宣布成立三個委員會之後其實包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
25826.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
25853.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
議員會之外分組的會議包括其他的專家的這些會議大概大大小小這個大概也召開了20次以上所以明年50萬的部分主要是因應這個三個委員會的支出所使用那我必須強調說這些委員跟這個顧問基本上他們是不知心的他們只有領這個很微薄的車馬費就是一次來只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
25855.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
25877.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
兩千五那大家可以想像說我們的委員裡面有台灣Google的總經理有趨勢科技的總經理有慈濟的執行長有等等之類的他們一次來開會動輒四五個小時以上不含車程這樣子的編列是否合理我想請大家公決那除了這個委員會的支出之外總統府總統或者是各機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
25878.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
25901.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
內部本來就會有很多的相關的國證或者是業務的推動需要專家協助的協助所以一直以來都有編列這個預算只是說明多了50萬是應用在這三個委員會上這是第一個說明第二個說明剛剛這個翁委員也有提到說是否要設置設置要點的部分我上午我在辦公室我有聽到這個吳思堯委員也有諮詢這個問題那我看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
25905.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
25922.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
第28案這個召委跟吳世堯委員跟審法會委員也有提出這個設置要點的這個主決議如果這個草野有一定的共識的話我想總統府可以朝向這個方向來積極研議以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
25925.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
25950.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
但我還是必須強調一下就是說這個本來既有的就應該要支出的費用加上50萬因應3個委員會的需求如果確實被凍結或刪除因為這個會議不會等人或者是我們需要處理事情不會等人那1月1號就到了這個今天是聖誕節嘛那1月1號就到我希望還是能夠這個請委員可以給予我們的支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
25951.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
25967.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
好謝謝剛剛翁委員有表示要發言請是我剛剛聽了張副秘書長的這個發言讓我就感到很好奇您說如果說是現在這個編列的費用500多萬在過去蔡英文時代其實每年也都是編列這些錢是嗎是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
25970.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
25988.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
對去年是比今年的預算是比明年14年少50萬對嘛所以就是往年就差不多就是500萬左右是不是可是那還是五個編組委員會你這裡只有三個委員會那理論上你應該要刪減而不是增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
25989.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
26013.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
對不對?更何況這向來這個總統他成立相關的委員會出席費用當然就是依照公家機關的這個出席費用2500元然後來支出所以現在秘書長您終於知道了我們在一般學校裡面我們要邀請到國際知名或是國內重量級的這個企業界的人要來學校裡面開會是多麼的困難2500塊真的連車馬費 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
26019.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
26028.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
來回高鐵可能都不夠的。委員如果這樣說希望委員大力支持,謝謝。沒有我認為這應該是通盤檢討通盤檢討而且如果說從剛剛講的話這個蔡總統任內5個委員會是編500萬那你們只有3個委員會就要編550萬就顯不合理我越想越覺得不合理這筆錢還真的是應該要砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
26045.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
26058.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
二十一案我還只是凍結哦對凍結50%所以並沒有不合理然後你平均這個就算是而且你說你們三個月開一次會 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
26060.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
26081.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
三個月開一次新統每個月開一次因為有三個委員會嘛但每個月為了要為了每一次你要付多少就付幾位的這個車馬費這個可以立刻計算出來一個委員會平均大概二十幾個人有28人到37人不等就算40個人吧40個專家學者40個人都需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
26082.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
26085.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
26099.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
26119.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
好嗎?你就算是20位20位然後每一次車馬費是2500塊那一次也就是五萬塊啊跟委員報告就是三個委員會每個月會開到一次嘛平均你說三個委員會三個月開一次欸分別是三個月開一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
26120.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
26122.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
總共是73個人要支領車馬費分別是20、32跟21這三個委員會的是這樣子所以沒有花多少錢才十幾萬二十萬的車馬費不到啊出席費不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
26146.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
26151.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
但是你們編了500多萬欸500多萬不是全部付這些人的薪水不是付這些人的車馬費所以還有付什麼?完全不清不楚啦只有50萬是支印這些委員會的費用而已然後另外500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
26162.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
26184.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
因為500萬是本來這個總統這個歷年在做政策的推動跟國政的研究本來就會有相關的會議那需要這個邀請這個專家學者或者是有行政業務的支出本來就會編列這個費用我只要強調是多了50萬是運用在這三個委員會身上我都認為我其實認為要提高給這些專家顧問們的車馬費出席費 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
26187.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
26214.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
我都認為應該完全支持可是你只給人家2500元然後剩下的這個500萬不知道這開會是要借什麼豪華的場地還是要請他們吃多高級的料理之類的嘛需要花到500萬然後只有三個委員會我認為這樣的一個經費真的不合理這個應該要節省的用啦這已經是太浮華了 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
26216.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
26231.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
我再強調一次,上個委員會不是花掉五百萬,是花掉五十萬。五百萬是整年度所有的會議,大大小小的會議所需要的行政的支出。 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
26236.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
26247.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
來,有委員建議保留那委員會對於我們第20案、21案、23案、3案在第4幕的部分予以保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
26248.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
26275.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
好,那如果沒有意見我們來做先讀第4幕研究發展提案案號第20案至第24案第22、24測案第20、21、23保留送協商接下來處理第5幕新聞發布提案案號第25案、26案那25、26兩案都是一是黃委員一個是翁委員請提案人做說明第25案喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
26277.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
26305.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
我其實對於我們政府在整個八座人才的過程當中最讓我感佩的其實是阿扁總統那一任他第一任的時候新上任新上任人事局的局長他說什麼有關於所有國營企業的選拔公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
26307.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
26335.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
用人為材而且一定是透過專業委員會的遴選提出了這三大重要的指標當初看到這樣的理念我真的非常的佩服只是後來沒落實2016年蔡英文總統上任了以後第一任行政院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
26336.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
26364.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
我在院會總質詢的時候我一樣就這三大理念詢問認不認同都認同但問題是到今天在整個落實上我必須要說國家體制這混亂以及敗壞已經到了匪夷所思的程度我為什麼說國家體制的混亂跟敗壞到了匪夷所思的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
26365.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
26390.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
一個台灣金聯公司的董事長在我們政府的體制上從財政部到行政院本來應該是什麼由財政部那邊有個專業領選的小組去領選簽給行政院院長核定結果搞了半天 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
26392.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
26406.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
竟然是由一個總統府的秘書長在決定總統府秘書長可以決定這種事喔?可以喬這種董事長喔?這是總統府秘書長的職權範圍之內嗎?這該是總統府秘書長幹的事情嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
26414.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
26429.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
總統府秘書長他在做的事情是陳總統之命總理總統府的事務指揮監督所屬職員啊為什麼台灣今年的董事長是總統府的秘書長插手去管的針對這一個科目提案檢列200萬凍結100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
26446.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
26448.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
結束了那我請翁委員我結束了翁委員我這裡有發現就是總統府的辦理媒體記者會媒體座談會跟國會聯絡相關的所編列還有新聞聯繫發布事宜所編列的經費有 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
26467.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
26482.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
就是編列的很高啦在過去從110年到112年大概都維持差不多在480萬左右的金額但是從113年之後呢就又暴增了31%然後到622萬那今年仍然是維持編列622萬說實在話就總統府自己的新聞發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
26490.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
26507.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
不是你們有新聞公關室對不對有國會聯絡人這個為什麼還花這麼多的錢去做新聞的發布然後國會聯絡室需要花錢嗎對這個地方的話其實都要請這個總統府要說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
26508.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
26524.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
然後我看你們這個發布這個新聞也都是在總統府自己的內部也不是有到外面去借場地所以這些錢是花到哪裡去了我認為其實總統府應該要說清楚否則的話我覺得這樣的費用其實不合理好其他委員有沒有要詢問的那我們機關代表請針對25案26案在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
26535.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
26560.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
我就不講預算書了,你們都知道在第39頁請說明好,謝謝兩位委員的槌尋那關於這個新聞聯繫跟發布跟這個翁委員報告一下確實2023年的預算是470萬左右這幾年大概就470到480左右那在今年度增加到622那主要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
26563.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
26577.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
總統府也有被陳請就是說我們的記者會或者是相關的新聞說明第一個沒有AI字幕然後第二個缺乏手語的老師所以去年我們向大院爭取到了這筆預算來做這些建制那也跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
26579.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
26596.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
六百多萬截至目前大概總共也辦理了41場大大小小的記者會當然總統府內是比較居多但也有這個下鄉的相關的行程所以還是希望說這個預算我們明年度變的預算數跟今年一樣因為我們認為今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
26597.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
26619.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
還算這樣子應該還算可執行不會過於浪費但是也不會過於擷取希望委員可以支持如果刪掉的話那也許這個有些服務就沒有辦法做得那麼到位謝謝好其他委員對於新聞發布這個部分剪列數兩個提案加起來分別剪列200萬跟148萬5千元那麼凍結數都各為100萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
26626.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
26651.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
那麼請問機關代表對於檢列跟凍結數有何意見表示如果檢列或凍結因為我剛表達過了就是說明年度編的預算跟今年度是一樣的那今年度執行起來覺得是夠用的而且剛好的所以明年度也沒有增列所以我希望能夠不要有任何的這個刪減謝謝好那麼在場其他委員有沒有要表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
26654.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
26671.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
那如果機關代表我認為還是要刪減因為其實本來從113年當時所暴增的這148萬我認為其實就不淨合理了對更何況AI字幕所以老師我記得好像總統府之前就有了AI字幕也有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
26673.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
26693.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
確實是增加那個經費之後才用那個共同公益契約採購那個AI字幕那AI字幕之外除了他的軟體之外在遠端還是需要有人大概每一場大概都要備員一個人到三個人能夠做即時字幕的這個如果有錯別字能夠即時修正所以那個確實是需要一筆預算那也恳請委員支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
26700.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
26718.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
第25、26案我們就保留送協商第5幕新聞發布第25、26保留送協商接著處理第8幕一般建築及設備提案案號第27案提案人是黃委員黃委員有沒有要說明你們這項是要編買車子476萬是要買幾排 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
26725.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
26751.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
跟委員報告那個6.5噸的大貨車一台3.5噸的小貨車一台我跟委員拜託這兩台車一台已經18年了一台已經19年了車也不是我的車是我們的很辛苦的駕駛你不用誤會我從來沒有說車是你在開的啦在回答問題的時候針對問題回答就好了我已經回答完了謝謝我有說車是你在開的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
26754.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
26777.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
我有請教你車子誰在開的嗎我只是一併回答這個不是我使用的機關代表我們那個主席會沒有關係喔總統府就把現在所使用的兩輛大貨車兩輛小貨車這個應該不是機密用車吧好那你就把這兩輛車子相關的資料會不會提供給我就先保留好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
26780.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
26808.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
那麼提案委員要求保留那是不是我們本案就保留送協商?好那保留因為剛剛委員說保留不用說什麼理由啦就是保留就保留啦所以剛剛機關代表的回覆我們請供參考第27案保留第8目一般建築及設備第27案保留送協商繼續處理第一款第一項總統府之主決議提案案號第28案至第36案 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
26811.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
26831.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
好,那我們就開始。那麼我們是不是請機關代表手頭上有已經提供的第28案開始。那如果說文字上有要修正的請說明。那如果沒有要文字修正內容可以接受就請也一併說明。好,第28案 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
26834.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
26862.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
有沒有問題我想修正兩個字就是說建請總統府研議循例訂定888三個委員會的作業要點這樣子我剛也說了我們會朝積極的方向來做這個議案那麼因為本席也是聯署委員我們的同意文字修正後照文字修正後通過我們是已經寫是不是我們手上拿的資料不一樣我們手上的資料是在倒數第二行研議循例訂定 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
26864.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
26870.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
這樣可以嗎?如果已經改的話就遵照辦理。好。那麼我們已經修正了。那就召喚通過。那請看第29案。遵照這個修正的文是遵照辦理。好。那我們就召喚通過。請看第30案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
26891.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
26909.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
這個會補充一下這個確實是很多民運代表跟國人也有寫陳情信箱的所以我們會積極來研版很好積極正面回應我們30案照案通過31案跟前案一樣遵照辦理好31案照案通過32案配合辦理好32案照案通過33案 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
26920.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
26946.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
三、三案配合辦理這個我也要補充一下這個我相信朝野政黨的立委也都是希望說總統府的活動能夠讓我們各個領域的臺灣之光能夠站上這個國人的目光面前除了體育之外其他的臺灣之光我們也會來努力辦理好謝謝專委現在都講了你兩個案都很積極的這邊回應好33案我們照樣通過34案 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
26957.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
26978.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
是否能夠在那個因為莊委員在場是否能夠在最後一句調整成這個落實性別平等精神這樣即可從這個提出調整方案及執行計畫到最後刪除然後改為落實性別平等精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
26980.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
27006.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
那個專委員他這個是最後倒數那一行劃掉那從提出調整方案及計畫後面寫落實好那麼文字修正後照樣通過那麼請文字的部分請機關代表把它寫出來然後委員簽名同意後我們送我們前面議事人員好專照辦理好謝謝第35案專照辦理好35案照樣通過36案 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
27007.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
27033.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
遵照辦理。好,遭案通過。謝謝。我們接下來呢要宣讀一下主決議提案案號第28案至第36案28至35、36案遭案通過第34案修正通過第一款第一項總統府處理完畢繼續處理第二項國家安全會議第一幕一般行政提案案號第37案至第42案那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
27035.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
27056.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
好 那目前我們就開始從37案開始那那個剛剛議程所列的總統府之預算解凍案及預算已經處理完畢總統府列席代表如有要工處理可先行離席那麼接續處理的就是第一款第二項國家安全會議離席之前謝謝主席還有謝謝兩位委員謝謝好 謝謝我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
27085.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
27099.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
好,那麼我們繼續看37案到第42案這一般行政向下分別有翁委員、黃委員提案那是不是先請翁委員就您的第37、39、40、42分別有人事費、水電費和資訊、設備、服務費來請翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
27112.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
27134.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
好謝謝主席在第37案就國家安全會議這裡提出的政務人員待遇的費用調升那麼當然我們看到這是在114年度所編列的政務人員的待遇費用比去年要增加15.85%就將近增加成長幅度了 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
27142.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
27143.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
提高了將近16%,然後增列了374萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
27149.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
27172.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
那麼這個幅度的基本上是明顯高於114年度的軍公教人員的調薪的3%的幅度所以就這個地方不太清楚就是是要增加政務人員的員額嗎還是說就是單純其實就是調哪方面的這個經費以至於必須要增加到 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
27173.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
27187.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
多了300多萬374萬然後提高這麼多所以這部分的話是國安會我們看他的預算書裡面沒有解釋清楚那麼因此我認為說應該要凍結預算100萬然後兩個月內要提報告然後39案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
27202.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
27216.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
三十九案的部分同樣的還是在水電費用了這是也是普遍看到我們的政府機關大幅的調高水費電費主要是電費對不起水費比較沒有那電費的話國安會也是在114年度調高電費增幅高達28.6%然後增加了108萬所以下一年度的編列費用是487萬的電費 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
27230.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
27251.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
那麼我們認為說這樣的電費也不合理而且也高出預期的電價的漲幅10%再加上行政院所要求的這個節電目標要扣除2%所以它就是超邊超邊的部分我們就把它刪除那麼因此在這裡提出簡列78萬然後凍結50萬然後還有39、40 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
27260.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
27277.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
在40案的部分則是針對資訊服務費其實我這次也是普遍的看到機關的所編列的資訊服務費的部分其實都有擴編而且在過去看到整個資訊服務費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
27280.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
27308.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
招標情況有許多不合理的地方我剛之前也講了很多都是限制性招標單一廠商的投標那麼在這一次的114年度國家安全會議所編列的預算是860萬那麼我們認為說這個他的這個增幅似乎也不是很合理所以就刪減一成減列百分之我看是減列 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
27311.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
27318.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
檢列86萬凍結100萬我的部分應該是講完還有最後一個42案42案的部分42案的部分同樣的也是在資訊軟硬體的設備費用現在是編列的是621萬可是這個費用看起來也是每年都編那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
27342.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
27371.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
這個並不是很清楚他所編列的項目從111年到112年然後今年又擴這個就大概也都是有一些成長就是整個的年度得標金額跟國安會每年的資訊服務費加計資訊軟硬體的設備費大概是1500萬並不是很相符所以而且很多資訊案就沒有發現他也沒有走電子採購的招標流程所以就這個地方的話國安會也必須要說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
27371.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
27375.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
因此本席提出要檢列62萬然後凍結100萬以上接下來黃委員有兩案黃委員要不要一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
27382.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
27404.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
那第一個38案啊針對水電費的部分其實那個跟其他面對其他行政機關的標準是相同的啦因為你們整個有關於水電費編列的預算政府達到了27%啊這個比例我必須要老實講非常非常的高非常非常的高那我相信政府的能源政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
27405.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
27417.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
以及在節能方面所提出來的呼籲政府機關應該要帶頭作為表賽我在其他的預算審查的會議上面我曾經說過就是當 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
27421.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
27449.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
我們的行政部門在面對水電費的時候我可以理解基於所謂行政上面的慣性你們算一算說增加多少你們就預算就往上調現在看到的是27%但是請回到一般老百姓的生活從他們的角度去看事情他們面對這樣的漲幅的時候他們的薪資漲了多少% |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
27452.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
27468.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
從人民的角度去看事情我覺得是每一個政府單位應該要放在心裡面就水電費的部分我相信面對國家安全會議我們的標準跟我們在面對其他行政機關行政部門的標準是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
27470.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
27482.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
第二個部分是你們希望因為你有一個軟硬體設備說要汰換電話系統搬了496萬編了496萬我那時候看了這個預算我真的有點嚇一跳換一套電話系統要496萬所以我提案3減100萬然後凍結100萬請你們提出報告了以後經同意時得通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
27498.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
27518.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
在這個預算提案提出去以後國家安全會議你們所給我的一個書面是說你們之前的電話交換機系統是在2013年完成升級現在用10年系統老舊原廠已無生產維修困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
27519.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
27537.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
然後桌上電話有很舊所以你們要換一部電話交換機主機185部桌上電話機等等等等的我大概幾個請問現在那個國家安全會議我們的工作同仁有幾個人啊一四對 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
27547.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
27558.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
我們那個國家安全會議現在工作的同仁有幾個人委員您要不要一併都提出來那待會請機關代表一併回覆因為我現在看的是說你們現在預算原額是86個人是嗎還是我看錯職員是86個技工4個駕駛16個聘用7個約聘3個 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
27575.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
27597.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
好 那麼請機關代表、舊綱委員的數字先整理好 那因為我們先從人事費的部分開始處理 那你現在這個談的是設備資訊嘛 我們到那裡的時候我們請機關代表一併做說明 謝謝 謝謝黃委員好 那我們首先處理這個人事費第37案 那麼政務人員待遇 那請 有沒有其他委員要就詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
27598.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
27620.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
那不然的話我們就請機關代表先依序先就翁委員的37案人事費徵務人員待遇要求凍結100萬做說明其次再就黃委員跟翁委員所提到的通案的水電費的部分做說明那最後呢就是翁委員跟黃委員的分別的資訊服務設備的更新做說明先請就徵務人員凍結的部分請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
27622.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
27627.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
是謝謝主席謝謝溫委員就人事的這個37案的詢問向委員報告本會議的政務人員113年的人事經費是2363萬那那個時候編是6個支委 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
27651.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
27673.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
114年是增加增列了一名知委所以的確是增列了一個政務人員然後這個他全年待遇是287萬然後再加上114年1月1日起的調薪4%所以總共算起來我們是何時依照此何時編列以上向委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
27675.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
27676.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
國安會議的業務量有在增加?增加哪些範圍? |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
27706.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
27721.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
的確是有在增加了我們現在的事情比過去多多了很多我本期的想法是稱為6個人就可以做的完的事情就不需要拼到7個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
27723.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
27727.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
國安會議是每天上班的嗎?如果是這樣的話,這樣考慮了,認為六個支委在過去蔡英文時代也是六個支委嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
27739.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
27755.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
委員,因為這個是用人權利,不是我們秘書長決定,是總統決定。資委是總統聘的啦,不是我們聘的。我們會裡面的業務現在的確是很多,我每天大概都8點多才能下班。 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
27755.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
27772.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
那所以而且我們還有督導那個全社會防衛任性的工作要協調各個部會那還有原來本來就要做的工作所以的確是業務相我們都是12點才下班我回家也在工作啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
27773.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
27796.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
我們回家也是在工作所以大家其實都很辛苦那麼我要講的就是說其實這個國安會當然來任用滋味是總統的權利可是呢也要考慮到整個國家的預算的規模經費的規模那麼如果說在過去的時代大概都是以5到6個為主嗎蔡英文總統的時代是幾個滋味 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
27798.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
27798.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
請莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
27812.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
27832.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
我倒這樣看吼,國安會裏面整個諮詢委員裏面你說6個,這倒也不是,我相信委員會很難去判定說幾個才是合理啦但據整個國家安全的一個運作,你說總統多方去做一個諮詢,我相信找的也不會是阿媽挖狗啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
27835.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
27856.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
價值判斷的問題啦價值判斷的問題我們的國安會的這個支委的一個這樣的一個規模是不是我倒很想藉這個機會來聽聽看跟其他的國家來做比較的話別人他們的一個規模到底會是怎麼樣那我都認為六個 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
27859.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
27874.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
6個我都嫌少如果涉及到國安的話如果可以讓總統有可以多方遵循的一個對象那對國家或者局勢來做出更完整的一個判斷我倒認為這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
27876.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
27894.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
並沒有所謂的什麽多加增加一個人是一個普遍的問題啦但只是說我想說看有沒有辦法來簡單做說明你說大國的國家到底是怎麽出名的國家到底是怎麽別人如何穩重接這個機會跟委員會說明我看也是好事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
27896.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
27915.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
我們國安會連我們諮詢委員複密以及行政人員總共大概100多人其實別的國家類似的組織都是幾百人他們都是從各個部會調上來這是第一個第二個我們就是秘書長、複密跟支委 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
27916.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
27945.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
那別的國家的國安會裡面有資深、資委還有資深委員還有委員然後上面還有那個各種其實他們的序列比我們多得多那底下的人也是好幾組這樣子其實說實話我們看到都很羨慕但是我們國安會的組織法也是有規定諮詢委員是5到7人這個是有規定那是法裡面規定的所以我們也是要按照法律走 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
27945.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
27970.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
那也回答順便回答莊委員的問題如果要橫向比較的話我們當然是覺得我們的人是不夠那因為現在國際的情勢變化非常非常複雜他牽涉到的方面非常廣那需要非常專業的人才提供諮詢這的確也是有這個需求我們現在的確有一種人才不足的感覺以上跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
27972.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
27985.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
好那麼其他委員就人事費的部分有沒有其他提議來黃委員那個我請教一下現在我們的國安支委現在到底幾個人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
27987.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
28010.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
現在我們秘書長一個人、副秘書三個人那國安資委現在到底幾個人本來是五個人嘛然後後來馬永誠資委現在轉成政委就剩四個人所以現在四個嘛是啊我們的原額是五到七嘛是所以現在是四嘛是啊你們覺得明年會到幾我們現在是幫總統把 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
28013.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
28017.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
幫總統把它編到七位就把它編滿就對了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
28017.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
28041.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
是當然我知道國安自衛真的實際上面在做的事情跟他負責的業務項目以及跟我們國外制度的比較要做這樣橫向比較的時候我覺得基本上都要很謹慎因為其實也不是沒有認識國安自衛有各式各樣的態樣也有各式各樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
28042.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
28068.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
正式上面情狀國安自委要辭了辭了以後不願意讓他公布他的辭呈導致他待在家裡都不用去這個事情也我想我也就要保護當事人我就孤影其名但我對這個事情我尊重提案委員只是我剛聽你講我有點驚訝所以我上去看網站看現在國安自委就是剩下剩下4個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
28074.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
28097.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
來 那麼要說明嗎 那個剛剛黃委員的指教是要不要說明都沒有沒有好 那本案委員對於凍結部分有沒有不同意見莊委員、陳委員希望不要凍結 我們還是希望能夠給總統一個用人的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
28100.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
28118.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
因為你們現在是四個人覺得人不夠用嘛 然後再補兩個人 那其實就很夠用了 那我認為真的多一個其實是沒有必要 就凍結100吧 100萬我也沒刪 那真的有需要的時候再提吧 翁議員 我覺得我們不要幫賴總統判斷有沒有必要啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
28120.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
28133.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
這個錢真的也不多啦涉及到國家安全的部分我們也沒有看到這個部分他們有亂編或者說錢亂花的地方是不是也讓總統可以有多方諮詢你像 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
28134.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
28158.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
確實啦國際局勢變換也都非常快啦總統當然要去諮詢的對象他並不困難但是呢有一些更專業的人或者說在體制鏈裡面讓他來提供這個意見對整個國家安全還是有幫助啦這個是不是也大家來共同來給總統府這樣關會做一個支持的好不好一個人而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
28162.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
28180.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
好,既然是這個賴總統嘛好,就是一開始這個對國安會很重視好,那麼我們也不要妨礙他未來說這個國安如果出了問題又是因為我翁委員傷了一百萬凍結一百萬然後導致國安有問題那是不是我們就是尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
28181.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
28198.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
那個莊委員是要我來水泳你什麼時候跟翁委員這麼好對啊你一開口他就答應我第一次看到還我跟他好啊對啊我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮我曾經說他穿紫色的很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
28206.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
28231.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
不是啦,那個我老實說啦我對其他委員提案我的立場都尊重剛剛既然歐委員都已經鬆口願意給賴總統這樣的空間也算是很給我們專委員一個很大的面子既然歐委員都這樣講了就同意啦因為剛剛國安會那邊有講了他這個法定員額5到7人那我們也尊重賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
28232.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
28249.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
的當然也希望了他如果是這個6個人就可以做的事就不需要再多增加一個委員我們不希望把國安會的委員也當成是酬庸還是要這個我們認真的真的請問委員那個現在是這樣那個如果看起來好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
28250.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
28252.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
那個專委員一席話﹖我答應不動喔但是我答應不要動 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
28267.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
28280.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
但是我覺得不要隨便叫人家撤案針對就有關於國安自衛的部分請他們給一個書面報告或處決議這樣就好了因為我覺得要委員撤案真的對委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
28281.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
28305.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
可能欠缺一些基本的尊重啦。測案其實也沒什麼啦。像黃委員有時候溝通完以後我們常常都會測案啦。我倒不會去想有那麼多的政治上的一個聯想啦。重點是大家把你們國家安全會議集齊啦。這個部分就其實我都會覺得啦。那靠有一些權威見解的人都很厲害的。比如說有一些人說我變得很厲害。 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
28308.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
28312.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
我這樣一年去幫你們支點一項,你們就可以讓你們貓舍頓開,好,國家安全,下下舊,大家都安心。沒有啦,你都講的是資政和火車顧問,國安司委是要上班的。是啦,是啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
28322.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
28342.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
委員會報告吼那麼因為雖然黃委員很少對別的委員的提案表示意見但他竟然表示說要改成書面報告又提到說測案是很不尊重的因為在場的確是測案的委員都不在場了吼因為謝委員有測了好幾個案子那我們希望也沒有對他造成困擾那37案還是要請教提案委員翁委員是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
28344.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
28360.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
您也接受不測案但是如果不測案是改為主決議有沒有這個主決議的內容這個是做個詢問啦因為主席這邊只能處理說您要測案或者您提議說要改主決議那主決議的話就要有一個文字您的意思是 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
28362.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
28389.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
這樣啦我還是希望你們給我一個書面報告啦那我就凍少一點那你們的書面報告來了之後呢我就寫凍好不好好不好這樣的話比較好總是要把這個事情講清楚嘛因為你剛剛是同意不凍結那但是要改成書面報告那是不是你主決議的內容就是要他們提交一個書面報告是不是那意思因為不然主席不知道該怎麼處理你的提案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
28389.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
28415.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
是你說不凍結那麼要提書面報告你的這個意思就是主決議了我一下被莊銳雄委員這樣子給講迷糊了然後也謝謝黃委員有提醒我那我後來也認為說其實應該還是要寫一個書面報告才是對的那凍結少少的錢然後但是希望你們能夠認真寫報告好不好然後我也不要說你們要提出專案報告並經統一就提出書面報告之後使得凍結那這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
28417.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
28438.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
我知道翁委員的意思了那是不是請那個機關代表齁這個在我們審查預算的時候因為翁委員是第一年參加預算審查這個就是在書面報告的時候續名就是把他的內容然後呢以主決意的方式請機關提書面報告說明他上面的那個要求好那因為這樣就沒有涉及到凍結的部分嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
28440.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
28456.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
是說凍結10萬他們已經點頭答應了然後提出書面報告我是不是摘下眼鏡沒有看到凍結的部分有嗎對啊剛剛是說凍結10萬嘛我趕快擦擦眼鏡對使得凍脂啊可以啦凍結多萬的凍結10萬然後提出書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
28457.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
28460.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
凍結10萬提書面報告後使得凍結好那這個就很清楚了這個凍結案就很清楚這是屬於凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
28474.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
28490.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
那接下來有水電費的部分那因為剛剛兩位提案委員都已經提出了說明那是不是因為剛之前我們對於水電費的部分都有通案處理是不是委員會同意我們按照之前的通案處理方式送交院會協商保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
28491.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
28510.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
可以嗎?好謝謝那我們第38、39案我們就保留送院會協商那第40案41、42都是屬於資訊設備不過一個是業務費一個是設備及投資他的那個預算科目呢性質一個是資本門一個是經常門不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
28511.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
28523.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
那是否機關代表對於這三個案子還是其他委員對這三個案子他目前三個案子加起來呢檢列數是248萬那凍結數是300萬那麼他的整個預算規模大概粗略估起來將近2000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
28532.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
28533.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
來,請機關代表說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
28550.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
28552.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
第40案資訊服務費773,000元新增辦理已經超越保固期限的無線網路系統授權維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
28571.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
28589.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
那本會議從在106年完成了無線網路系統的建制並提供保固到113年為止但是為了要維持業務的繼續的進行需要從114年起每年新增辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
28589.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
28614.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
無線網絡系統授權維護所需經費每年需要66萬6千元這是第一個部分因為保固已經到齊了我們必須要維護第二個部分是本會議是資安法的A級機關依照法尊我們有資安管理及防護相關的費用那這些費用主要譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
28616.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
28632.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
自安見證服務、資通安全威脅偵測管理這個是法尊需求那我們上去共同契約採購的時候它的標準價格就是10萬7千元所以這兩者加起來就是77萬3千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
28635.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].end |
28653.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].text |
所以這個是我們爭略的部分另外這一案是問委員提的問委員有一個關切就是好幾個案都有同樣的關切我先說一下針對共同供應契約跟小額採購相關規定辦理這些廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].start |
28659.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].end |
28684.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].text |
其實那個委員你看我們其實那些額度都很小所以其實不存在說我們養廠商因為每一個項目都才十幾萬十幾萬那關鍵是他們長年提供我們服務尤其是我們會議的性質說實話跟廠商彼此的信任跟安全關係是非常重要的我們熟悉他們的而且他們的服務也很好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].start |
28685.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].end |
28707.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].text |
我們如果採購您看到那個漲的部分不是因為它跟去年同樣提供同樣的服務它漲而是今年我們要採購的內容是不一樣的所以不存在您講的那個說我們養廠商這個問題這是一個二一個呢您說那個金額有不相符的部分我們特別去看那 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].start |
28709.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].end |
28733.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].text |
大部分是以這個除了公開招標以外有兩種採購一種是以共同供應契約方式辦理採購還有一種是以小額採購方式辦理那這兩種採購不會反映在那個公開招標那個金額裡面所以那個差距是在這兩個採購裡面但是兩個採購當然都是按照那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].start |
28734.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].end |
28743.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].text |
政府電子採購網金額依法採購辦理所以也沒有其他隱匿的情勢就這一案特別跟委員說明以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].start |
28746.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].end |
28770.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].text |
現在40案,40案我知道在場好像有沒有那個會計人員那個主計檢主任因為可能好像翁委員對於共同供應契約跟一般的招標採購需要您做更詳細的說明因為一般我在機關服務知道什麼是共同供應契約但是如果只有在民意機關當民意代表不見得了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].start |
28771.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].end |
28792.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].text |
我也很了解我在學校服務那麼久我很清楚公共供應契約對那我只是認為說其實我覺得很多的問題就在於你們在預算書裡面你們沒有寫清楚嗎沒有寫清楚是是是你們沒有寫清楚就讓人家誤會啊對然後每一次都是說要做什麼資訊服務費然後一下子每年增加那麼多金額到底這個準備要做些什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].start |
28794.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].end |
28816.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].text |
然後我們我不是說我們這裡全部都是從這個政府電子採購網決標資料我們自己去撈資料欸我們現在都不敢請你們機關提供給資料給我們請你們提供你們也不願意提供然後提供的呢也不清楚我們自己去撈資料才發現這樣的一些問題對不對所以呃更何況就是呃我上次還在跟人事總處諮詢的時候也有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].start |
28818.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].end |
28828.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].text |
有的時候你們的資訊能優化的這個金額他應該是要逐年遞減的然後怎麼會是每年都是編的一模一樣的金額或很類似的金額這也不合理啊到底優化到哪裡去了來張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].start |
28834.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].end |
28856.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].text |
翁委員寫這個當然他有他的看法但是剛剛我看國安會這邊的解釋我不曉得翁委員還有沒有什麼樣的一個疑慮剛剛我看他每一個細項裡面也都提出來這樣的一個說明那是不是我們國家安全會議的部分你如果說有覺得他的招標的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].start |
28857.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].end |
28867.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].text |
有你覺得必須要去做加強監督的一個地方,我們不要檢略了。你看你像剛才這樣給凍結了,還給人家倒幾次。報告委員,因為我們這個沒有什麼隱匿的部分,我可以跟您說明,一個一個說明清楚,都很清楚的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].start |
28883.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].end |
28906.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].text |
我是不是幾案一起說明?對,就是這40、41、42我剛剛說完40案我繼續說41案是黃委員的黃委員關切的是就是電話交換機剛才資樂也給黃委員看了剛剛黃委員都唸出來了那我也沒有更進一步的說明那實際上的原因就是不好意思我可以打斷一下因為41案我剛剛要問的時候昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].start |
28909.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].end |
28912.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].text |
所以我剛才有問你們說現在國家安全會議啊現在到底有幾個人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].start |
28927.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].end |
28933.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].text |
因為我現在看預算書上面預算原額職員是86個人、技工4個人、駕駛16個人、聘用7個然後約顧3個然後工有6個人嘛我的理解應該沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].start |
28943.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].end |
28962.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].text |
我是秘書署的代理處長那跟委員您做說明啊我們國家安全會議現在的預算原額是122個人那其中職員是96個人然後公有公有技工職員是86個人吧職員是那個那個是縣那個是縣員那我們那是我們現在編的114個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].start |
28964.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].end |
28978.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].text |
我們雖然那個預算也122了但我們實際只編了114我們沒有把它編滿就是剛剛委對阿所以職員有幾個人職員總共是有95個人是阿那就很奇怪阿阿你上面是寫86阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].start |
28981.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].end |
28999.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].text |
你上面寫86你說現有95那個是我們把它編的我們預算可以編到122然後我們是把它編114元然後這裡面的10元是86元是跟委員跟您報告對嘛所以到底是86還是9696所以說我們現在這個剛剛講這個交換機你說預算原額86但是現有96不是預算原額我們10元可以編到96個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].start |
29009.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].end |
29025.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].text |
不是啊我就跟你講這預算原額寫86啊所以是我書面資料錯誤嗎不是不是那個所謂預算原額是我們按照我們的我們的那個編制數啊我們按照編制數然後再增加我們的那個非編制數的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].start |
29026.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].end |
29036.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].text |
就是我們組織法裡面的編事署人員加上非編事署人員所以你剛剛96是把聘用跟約聘也放進去是不是?是是是不是啊我就跟你講我我我們討論問題不要這麼浪費時間就具體特定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].start |
29041.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].end |
29068.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].text |
啊我剛剛問你職員有幾個人啊你說96我聽了嚇一跳啊就跟書面上面寫的不一樣因為上面寫86嘛對這邊我們是編86這邊我們是編86那我反而是要回答那個委員就是要回答那個對啦好我就進一步回答我就是反正你把那個加起來啦因為你們說你們要換一個整個電話的系統要496萬那我必須要跟你講我必須要跟你講不是不信任你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].start |
29069.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].end |
29091.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].text |
是我因為這樣子簡單的文字描述就點頭49 496萬的預算這個是作為立法委員的不盡責任你們順便資料來因為我看說你要換一個電話主機然後你有185部桌上的話機那我看了就覺得有點狐疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].start |
29092.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].end |
29116.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].text |
啊你們大概就100出頭然後100你要換185部桌上話機是全就全面都換是不是只有需要每一個人全面都換因為你換到的桌上話因為我看你給我的數字上面寫185桌上話機嗎那我那我就認一下因為我印象裡面就沒這麼多人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].start |
29117.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].end |
29144.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].text |
所以現在是每一個人桌上的畫機都有問題全部都要換?因為他畫機是跟他那個交換機系統是要結合,功能系統也是要結合這個你們有去詢價嗎?有詢過那這樣好不好?你那個詢價的結果先拿來給我看可以嗎?好沒有這個就先保留我等他把東西資料送來請問一下那個你們什麼時候可以因為我們今天的會議本來是到5點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].start |
29145.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].end |
29168.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].text |
如果5點半不提供我們無法提供我們這個保留也就不是暫保留了黃委員意思是說暫保留的意思是您要我們書面報告書面報告不用啊你不是說你有尋價嗎需要這麼多錢嗎有有有那我現在的問題是你去尋哪一家廠商嗎怎麼報的裡面的content是什麼嗎事情就這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].start |
29171.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].end |
29191.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].text |
我確認一下黃委員的意思因為如果是暫保留在我們會議期間內他可以本會的現今年的會議期間他可以提供那您就可以做出一個決定這是暫保留另外一種是就像翁委員一樣就是凍結然後呢他們把這個內容提出面報告後使得凍結兩種選項主席要圈圈的是哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].start |
29193.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].end |
29218.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].text |
第二種好了第二種是吧對因為戰保留這件事情非常可怕因為戰保留什麼時候變成不戰保留被處理掉了這個事情要特別注意所以我選第二種那個主席是提醒只要在會議時間主席都會做處理因為如果我們沒有延長到12點又有人6點5點就跑掉的話我們都會處理得到那麼現在就是以凍結的部分是凍結多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].start |
29222.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].end |
29243.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].text |
我的提案上面寫了啊凍結100萬凍結100萬啊那因為我們凍結100萬但因為剪裂的部分在本提案當中就沒有辦法透過順便報告來處理了所以是不是免於剪裂但凍結100萬順便報告後使得凍之懇請那個委員不要剪裂好不好我們把報告給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].start |
29244.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].end |
29251.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].text |
沒有啦,你現在這樣子好了啦齁,剪裁100萬我刪掉,凍結100萬提書面報告均同意厚實的動機 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].start |
29253.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].end |
29272.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].text |
還要經同意後這個確認一下我之前已經在本次會議今天下午開始就提出了去年度在省金融預算的時候的凍結案是在12月19日做成的那解凍是在今天12月25日達成的那麼請機會代表衡量你們的凍結這100萬可以撐到明年可以撐到12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].start |
29276.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].end |
29277.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].text |
因為這個是設備費用的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].start |
29303.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].end |
29331.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].text |
那跟委員報告齁那麼如果我們的決議預算審議決議是提書面報告時的凍支那麼對於機關是有一個催促性的因為它越早提出來那它就可以得到解凍但是呢如果加上經同意後那就在我們本委員會什麼時候排案那當然我想相信明年的召委要排案的時候盡可能的提早但是我也不敢保證所以這一點部分就請委員會衡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].start |
29332.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].end |
29353.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].text |
那本案是黃委員提案是41案他同意免於剪裂但是凍結的部分的凍結100萬那提書面報告還要經同意後使得凍資那請問委員跟機關代表有什麼看法那委員有沒有辦法可以不要經同意這句話然後我們盡快提供您要的資料我們盡快提供給您不是啊我我我我你剛聽我 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].start |
29356.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].end |
29381.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].text |
在跟您的過程當中您應該可以很清楚的感受到我已經展現了很大的善意我不曉得您聽不聽得出來如果這樣子還沒有辦法同意那就原案保留我是一個非常直接的人剛總統府要書面報告我從來沒同意現在我不檢列書面報告經同意後時的動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].start |
29387.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].end |
29404.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].text |
因為這裡41跟42都是同一個項目那麼如果41處理了其實還有42要不要42的委員一併表示好那我這個基本上就是也不簡列了但是還是要凍結100萬然後也是提書面報告那個凍100萬那麼等於是六分之一將近六分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].start |
29413.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].end |
29435.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].text |
那最好要在因為你們招標案是一次性的吧不是那種按月支出的嗎是招標是對是一次性的是一次性的嗎所以一次性的沒有所謂的動6分之1可以撐前面10個月的問題是不是這樣意思沒辦法這樣沒辦法這樣那個其他委員呢有沒有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].start |
29438.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].end |
29463.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].text |
如果機關代表無法接受,那我們好,那中央委員建議保留那我們是不是41、42案我們就保留啦那40案的部分40案也是嗎?翁委員你剛也是這樣嗎?好,那我們就處理了謝謝等一下我們再處理一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].start |
29467.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].end |
29490.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].text |
好,那麼國家衛生會議第一幕一般行政提案案號第37案至第42案其中第38、39、40、41、42案保留送協商第一幕一般行政向下人員維持中人事費之政務人員待遇凍結10萬元是提出書面報告後使得凍之然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].start |
29491.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].end |
29504.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].text |
接下來處理第二幕諮詢研究業務提案案號第43至45案那麼提案委員在場有我們的兩位委員分別是翁委員跟黃委員是不是請兩位委員分別說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].start |
29507.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].end |
29521.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].text |
我首先針對那個43案的部分做說明因為我們有發現就是你們預算書裡面的第25到27頁的這個預算說明裡面有很多不清楚的地方你們在114年裡面編列了2385萬的經費說要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].start |
29528.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].end |
29547.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].start |
29548.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].end |
29557.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].text |
應變演習也是編了522萬項目6也是一樣去什麼智庫參加研討會項目7也是派員參加國際組織重要會議這些加起來總共的派員參加各式各樣不同的智庫研討會的費用就高達1554萬元基本上都已經超過你的國外的旅費908元 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].start |
29575.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].end |
29586.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].text |
908萬元以及國內旅費109萬元的總和所以呢你們是不是有可能是以業務費之名行國外旅費之實這是我們的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].start |
29590.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].end |
29608.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].text |
就是你們怎麼有這麼多各式各樣不同的項目都是要去看其他國外的國內外重要安全機構臺灣到底有哪些國家安全機構是你們要去參訪的可以用那麼多種不同的項目要派員去參訪好那麼黃委員你的提案一樣啊在國家安全會議當中啊就 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].start |
29618.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].end |
29623.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].text |
以所謂的諮詢研究業務下面的業務費編列了2385萬元2385萬元裡面實際上面看到的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].start |
29632.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].end |
29648.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].text |
大概跟出國的比例啊非常非常的高非常非常的高跟其他所有的行政機關比起來我必須要說高的嚇人高的嚇人那當然你們在提出的書面說明當中說機票漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].start |
29650.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].end |
29664.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].text |
然後預算編列美金的匯率也調整生活日資費也調整然後所以如何如何但是我必須要講這些抽象的說明都沒有辦法正當化 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].start |
29665.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].end |
29692.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].text |
編到2385萬元我的提案是解列100萬凍結100萬提出專案報告並經同意後使得凍資這是我提案的內容第二個跟我的提案沒有關係的你們今年一樣在同樣一個向下的這筆經費今年到目前為止花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].start |
29697.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].end |
29720.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].text |
現在有同仁可以協助嗎?您是指哪一個?指的就是你們在諮詢研究業務當中的業務費今年應該有相同的目的跟指引的項目嗎?今年變多少錢?您是說花多少錢還是?第一個今年變多少錢?第二個到目前為止花多少錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].start |
29725.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].end |
29744.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].text |
這是今、二、一2024年今年好請機關代表對兩位委員的詢問一併回答預算書是兩千零一十八萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].start |
29745.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].end |
29766.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].text |
你今年這個編了2018萬那個黃委員等一下那個是不是主任你要說明跟委員報告請說明諮詢研究業務到今年的11月底子的話他整個執行數是1400萬左右等一下齁一樣一樣來今年編多少錢今年的諮詢研究費用編列2000 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].start |
29770.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].end |
29793.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].text |
186,000元到目前為止執行多少錢?到11月底子的話是執行了1423,000元。1423,000那12月預估會再執行多少?因為今天已經是25號了吧?我們預估到年底之前我們這個科目的執行率一定會超過90%因為有些案子還沒來往下不好意思給我具體的數字你所謂超過90%是會到多少1800萬嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].start |
29797.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].end |
29820.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].text |
差不多那你明年總共編的是2385萬嗎?是2385萬3000元你不會覺得膨脹得太誇張了嗎?最主要是因為我們在出國旅費的部分有增加204萬元所以呢你不會覺得這膨脹得太誇張了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].start |
29824.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].end |
29834.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].text |
這個是根據我們的那個那個那個辦公室所提的一個需求來做編列那最主要原因的話所以你們辦公室所提的需求有具體的細目是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].start |
29836.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].end |
29851.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].text |
欸跟我遠報告齁就是說誰要去哪裡要花多少錢其實在預算書的那個出國的一個表件裡面的話都有詳列我們在第幾月在預算書的第48頁到應該說從47頁開始一直到51頁你說有詳列欸是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].start |
29862.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].end |
29870.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].text |
所以你現在在這個象下的錢是48頁49 49頁對到第幾頁533頁到533頁900多萬的出國旅費然後到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].start |
29893.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].end |
29915.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].text |
這樣好了啦 不好意思齁 因為我看抽象的東西 看了頭會很痛 因為抽象的東西我完全看不懂今年 今年 你們到今年為止 所具體執行的 去哪裡 多少人 去幾天 花多少錢 一樣一樣條列提供給我們 這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].start |
29918.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].end |
29946.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].text |
報委員齁,實話跟您說有一些行程比較機密沒有關係,如果啦齁是機密的齁那你就在上面打一個密你相信你在上面打一個密用密給我們我們就有熟密的義務洩漏國家機密啊就要被處罰那你就在上面打一個密你可以把你去的地方打土黑 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].start |
29948.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].end |
29971.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].text |
幾個人去幾天花多少錢我是一個非常合理的人我不會想要虧一次什麼國家機密沒有這個問題但我在做預算評估的時候我需要知道這些數字否則的話你們就這樣子做一個表格我2300多萬的預算就通過這我沒有辦法跟納稅人交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].start |
29977.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].end |
30003.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].text |
那麼委員會其他委員有沒有其他意見提醒一下那麼因為我完全相信黃委員他是會守密的那因為委員之間其他的委員能會不會去中國就把這個密卸了我們也不清楚那所以我們一直在希望能夠建立在立法院裡面的守密是可以落實的包括到其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].start |
30006.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].end |
30033.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].text |
敵對勢力國家的行蹤必須公開被接受監督不過這一點可能好像有民眾黨國民黨不同意我們排案來審理這樣的案子所以這個密能不能守住其實還要請機關代表你們斟酌啦我完全相信黃委員他是你們註記密他就會守密那這個可要我們的那個文書要點定守密的規定能不能落實請你們自己斟酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].start |
30034.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].end |
30053.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].text |
那其他委員對於本案有什麼看法?那如果欸剛剛講的我還先補充一下45案是測案的所以目前我們在處理的這個是第43案第44案那目前的情況分別是簡列300萬100萬那凍結也是分別為300萬100萬那這個是兩個案並嗎?來那請 公委要表示意見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].start |
30065.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].end |
30068.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].text |
維持檢列300凍300那黃委員也是檢列100凍100那其他委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].start |
30077.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].end |
30098.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].text |
好,機關代表如果我們因為這樣的情況之下我們就委員會建議本案保留送院會協商那我們就宣讀第二幕諮詢研究業務提案案號第43至第45案第45案撤案第43、44案保留送協商接下來處理第三幕一般建築及設備提案案號第46、47案請看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].start |
30101.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].end |
30107.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].text |
我們目前的這兩個案子提案委員分別是翁委員跟黃委員請提案委員分別做提案說明翁委員請46案主要是這個國安會要換要換車那麼這次是要換的是副首長的專用坐車那到目前為止大概是使用10年左右了那麼這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].start |
30130.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].end |
30141.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].text |
那麼你們其實就是說因為你們之前也有說有要換換些車可是呢你們這個好像是舊的車反而沒有換要換這是10年還開用的車 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].start |
30147.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].end |
30169.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].text |
對我們108年的時候當時汰換車輛都是屬於汰換使用已經超過15年的車輛那這次這次汰換的是已經雖然已經超過10年才剛超過10年但是還可以堪用的副所長坐車我們認為說沒有那個立即的必要性希望能夠共體時間尊潔工廠支出所以刪除呃編列這個換車的經費114萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].start |
30180.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].end |
30199.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].text |
有沒有其他人要詢問?那請黃委員。站成三處啊。然後有第二個事我比較好奇就是說一樣在購置車輛的時候我們在審不同部門的預算的時候會看到不同的數字所以我們在處理考試院的時候他們那種 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].start |
30201.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].end |
30211.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].text |
所謂的什麼首長要用的車子人家是編210萬跟195萬我看到210萬跟195萬看到國安會是編114萬他們是要買電動車你們是要買油電混合車那時候問考試院考試院一副很無辜所以我們是配合什麼人種 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].start |
30228.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].end |
30254.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].text |
還是主計總署的政策我忘了啦那顯然這樣子的說法完全經不起考驗嘛完全經不起考驗啊怎麼那個地方就一定要買電動車那你們這邊姑且不論是不是有換車的需求然後就是油電混合車我只是很好奇我們的政府機關在編列買車的預算的時候到底有沒有一個統一的基準啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].start |
30255.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].end |
30270.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].text |
還是各個機關各個機關想要怎麼換他們各自去處理這個是我的困惑但是就我提案本身的內容而言我維持我的看法我認為沒有必要這台車只開了13萬公里他們給我的說明啊里程數是13萬我比較不好意思講我現在那台車二十幾萬公里我的30萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].start |
30283.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].end |
30308.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].text |
那有沒有其他委員的里程數跟高代表現在意見?看起來莊委員來您剛有車齁,現在甘必頂都買,啊沒有後是有租賃租賃沒有你們也比較不會那麼多消磨我說這個方式啊,不然其實你說200多萬的車齁因為有時候你那個維護你也會很久的時間,你不如 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].start |
30312.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].end |
30339.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].text |
好像民間現在有好多公司也都是用租賃的方式我看立法院也有租賃車啊我不知道你們的看法是要這條但是他說要這條玻璃有了大家再說看看啦好不好好基本代表對於有委員提案檢列那也有委員提案保留那基本代表是我們當然是不希望檢列好那麼不希望檢列我們本案保留46、47號 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].start |
30342.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].end |
30371.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].text |
好第46第三目一般建築及設備第4647案保留送協商那麼第一款第二項國家安全會議處理完畢欸但還有組決議呢不是有一個這個是喔那是一個國使館的齁好那麼我們接下來繼續處理第三項國使館第二目檔案文物管理與編轉提案案號第48案49案那我們是不是也要這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].start |
30372.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].end |
30395.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].text |
那麼國家安全會議國家安全會議的列席代表如果有要工處理可先行離席提醒一下目前我們還是到5點半為止那如果有要工可以先離開但是如果先離開了包括委員跟機關代表應該要留下來審議的就不要說我們說不認真審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].start |
30397.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].end |
30425.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].text |
謝謝主席跟委員好謝謝那我們接下來繼續處理這個第二目第三項國事館第二目檔案文物管理編轉提案號第48案19案好那我們請國事館好那好那跟委員報告第48案測案第49案測案喔對不起對不起喔第二次金額喔19案是有修改最後一段我們還沒處理好咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].start |
30426.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].end |
30443.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].text |
剪裂30萬請大家看單張的因為今天的結案是到10點半那這個可能請大家看49案修正修正他是說剪裂30萬然後科目自行調整好那因為提案委員不在我們不予處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].start |
30444.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].end |
30444.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].text |
第50案是主決議第51案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].start |
30465.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].end |
30490.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].text |
好,第二幕,檔案文物管理與編轉提案號第48案、第49案第48案測案、第49案不予處理好,那麼繼續處理第一款第三項國事管制主決議提案號第50案、第51案那麼第50案的主決議是吳世堯委員那麼請問等一下我先看一下吳委員有沒有委員在場那個我們的提案內容在場委員有沒有連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].start |
30491.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].end |
30520.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].text |
好那麼是呃省委員你對於呃可以代表吳委員嗎?不是吳省委員是我啦說了滿天好那麼中委員說錯了對不起齁那麼主席差點欸不是我看到的我以為是是省是委員好那麼主決的部分機關代表對於主決內容50案遵照辦理好那麼同意那接下來呢第51案有文字修正那請問省委員的部分有沒有人提案在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].start |
30522.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].end |
30551.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].text |
在張委員在不在?也是我啊?那來文字修正的部分我看一下最後一段倒數第三行就上開文物處理資訊揭露以妥善典藏維護是不是這樣子?是是好那本席代表省委員接受那麼文字修正後張委員通過好我們唸一下唸一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].start |
30553.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].end |
30575.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].text |
好那麼主決議第50案照案通過第51案修正通過好討論事項已處理完畢做以下宣告114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府主管不含中央研究院收支部分審查完順提報院會一例院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].start |
30579.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].end |
30599.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].text |
關於本日會議通過修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過之決議依例文字授權主席及依次人員處理本日議程所列事項均已處理完畢會議進行到此現在休息謝謝大家 |