| IVOD_ID |
164095 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164095 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T09:30:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T09:40:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:19 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6ec1c560b7bafb81d97bc26f8a2da10586c439cd226d8052e0f4beab1f5dffbc25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:30:36 - 09:40:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【10月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席 麻煩請陳組計長我們請陳組計長委員好 處長早是我有看到媒體報導說行政院他現在要提出財政收支劃分法的草案是要送到本院來審議那這個你有參與討論喔有那這個財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
37.421 |
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不是只有收還有支那收的部分當然就是收進來的稅收如何分配包括中央地方垂直分配跟各縣市政府的水平分配但是支的部分基本上就是要先了解中央跟地方的權責還有各地方政府的權責如何劃分這樣對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.198 |
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所以最近我看到媒體上講了很多衝突我就覺得很奇怪這不能好好談嗎 譬如說地方政府都說我們那個以前蘇貞昌院長時代做到斑斑有冷氣 現在說電費地方政府說你中央要繼續補助那中央的講法是因為財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.13 |
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110.101 |
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在野黨藍白在立法院多數所以把一大塊一口氣拿了幾千億去地方了嘛所以中央現在的財政能力跟以前是不能相比況且啊這個裡面一個很重要的因素就是國教啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
134.897 |
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國民基本教育中小學本來就是地方政府的權責那裡地方政府斑斑要冷氣的這個建制是中央出的前面幾年在中央財政有餘裕然後財政收支劃分的時候還比較充分的時候我來支持這個電費那一年的電費在這一部分總共是多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.101 |
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152.892 |
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電惠的部分大概17.2億關於斑斑有冷氣的部分水電惠的補助啦斑斑有冷氣大概是12.6億那他給你拿了幾千億之後他連這十幾億都不要付了所以網路上有一個比喻啊爸爸媽媽買手機給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
156.987 |
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連手機的網路費都要你還要繼續出是不是這樣的概念是 因為這一次財化法它總共分配就是說通過之後我們要分配給地方就是4165億然後它裡面又加4165億是預估值如果你的營業稅將來台灣的GDP繼續成長對你的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.221 |
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會分配給地方還會更多對那所以這個部分他其中又有一個我對一般縣市補助又必須維持2,501所以兩個合起來就將近15%那15%裡面其實這個部分是包括以前相關的市權並沒有移轉那第二個他分配給各縣市他的均衡他很很大的一個差異所以有一些比如我說比較那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.193 |
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233.016 |
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商業發展不是那麼的一個快速的一個縣市他就整個人吃虧所以這個部分我們整個分配下來均衡不一樣所以很多的縣市其實他是受到很大的一個那個所以我們已經被破壞了就是沒有去均衡各縣市財政還有給各位一個相等的一個待遇的一個能力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.818 |
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257.631 |
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講到錢就傷感情啦 大家都掙錢啦希望自己手上的錢越多越好可是談到收支的時候就要關於你要做什麼工作的分配我覺得要從工作的分配上面才來去看收入應該要怎麼樣來分配所以我是希望因為這個草案你還沒有提過來 |
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258.832 |
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那我也不知道提過來在本院能夠通過的機會有多大現在立法院不太講道理大家就講政治立場就專門在做政治攻擊所以要好好的把這個道理跟社會大眾說清楚基本上所有無論是中央政府或地方政府的稅收都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
285.222 |
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304.977 |
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全民的納稅錢 那這個納稅錢應該要怎麼用基本上要看你負擔了什麼工作 要負擔了多少工作需要用多少錢 這樣邏輯才是正確的而不是先設建再劃法 就是我就給你多少錢那你要做什麼工作不知道 那你隨便你亂花 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
306.226 |
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我想民眾不希望這樣狀況無論是中央政府或地方政府他都不需要這樣的狀況對不對因為當初市權市權並沒有劃分出來所以而且市權很多都必須要做修法才能夠去做改變所以我們不得不就必須要把原來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.185 |
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属于地方政府硬办的事项然后转给地方去办就是原来中央补助的一个部分改由他的统筹分配税款的相关去支应但是这个部分呢其实比如说我们以往的一般性补助包括计划性补助都是属于地方硬办的事项然后中央着于补助所以这个部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.192 |
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當然有一些縣市他會覺得說我這個拿到了錢但是他又不想做這些他原來硬辦的事項所以我們還是必須跟他引導讓他去做這些一個屬於原來地方硬辦的事項我剛剛講除了電費之外現在又在講那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.769 |
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389.711 |
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中小學營養午餐的那個補助各式各樣的問題其實都看到枝微末節沒有看到它的根本要從事權的劃分才來決定財政的分財務 錢的分配嘛那你事權劃分的部分不講清楚所以我是希望行政院在提出這個草案到本院來的時候連帶這些東西都要跟社會大眾做清楚的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.692 |
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416.306 |
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不然的話每一個問題拿出來的時候個別的地方政府都是會站在他自己的角度看事情你剛剛講的有一個問題啊將來一定會面臨搶稅的問題因為你的營業稅既然現在改成是中央代收其實是地方的錢那過去的觀念我的營業總部設在哪裡我的營業稅在哪裡繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
417.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
444.124 |
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開玩笑那以後台北市都是櫥窗我們新北市都是廚房桃園都是廚房大家的工廠開在中南部開在我們這些地方結果他的營業總部設在台北市那營業所有都在台北市交這個不公道這個已經講了幾十年了但是如果這一次沒有辦法好好的把這個法律釐清以後的地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
445.253 |
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459.038 |
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你這個總部不簽到我的工廠如果在我這個地方不簽到我總部不簽到我這個地方來的話我每天要跟你做一些奇奇怪怪的消防檢查啦公安檢查啦每天來跟你檢查逼你要把你的營業總部簽到我這個地方政府來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.457 |
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485.936 |
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會出現這樣的亂象喔是是 謝謝委員這個部分呢財政部已經針對這個所以他要做一個統一的劃分的一個公司去做涉算或者把一些農地比較佔的一個部分是不是要提升要做一個統一的涉算這個是草案要向社會大眾說明是的本院不一定會接受本院現在有多幾票就對方的意見就是完全不予考納採納都採用突擊式的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
486.496 |
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514.642 |
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都到要表決前才提出他的修正案我們連看都沒看過就表決過啦然後你們又平常又不做充分的說明所以社會大眾立法又透過什麼法律搞不清楚啊連立法委員都搞不清楚你知道嗎我們會盡量來做都是機密啊到了要表決前五分鐘才提出他的修正案怎麼拿到這樣的立法方式所以這件事情對國家的影響發展非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
515.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.027 |
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我個人是認為 正本清源 事權的劃分先談清楚事權劃分清楚之後 因為需要辦事 需要多少錢 然後才談錢的分配要從最上游整個釐清下來 整個事情才能夠清清楚楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
535.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
556.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以這個部分我們國化會已經針對這個部分譬如說原來中央一般性補助和計劃性補助包括整個事權所謂的一個作用法相關的都在做一個檢討那哪些是必須中央持續補助的要維持或者哪些要回歸地方那整個國化會都有已經在做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
557.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.818 |
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一個這個研究還有一個跟部會來做討論那所以這個部分也會並同我們整個財化法的一個修正來整個疫病來提出來主委長我的今天的諮詢你還是沒有聽懂我一個關鍵的地方就是這個要向社會大眾說明因為本院喔是一個比力量的地方比飄數的地方不是比道理的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.999 |
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595.335 |
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所以你們如果對社會大眾沒有辦法說明讓社會大眾能夠信服的話在立法院來你們是絕對把你改得亂七八糟扭曲了我新北市12個立委啊要表決的話我們會輸你們嗎所以如果病人這樣就糟糕了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.056 |
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618.43 |
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所以我們對於這個國家很重要的一個法律如何來做這個要趕快想既然行政院草案要提出來一定要對社會大眾充分說明充分說明之後才能夠避免這些滋味末節的爭執才能夠正本清源談到問題的根本好不好加油對社會大眾充分說明是謝謝謝謝委員 |