| IVOD_ID |
16409 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16409 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-23T08:30:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-23T12:29:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:58:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcf4489611fe8f3d290f9a65472a0a5ac36d1319bf84c91682c812640863946f975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分。
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總處主管「中央公教人員急難救助基金」收支部分。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:46 - 12:29:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員五人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1967.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1979.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由．現中華民國113年12月18日星期三上午9時至12時33分,12月19日星期四上午9時12分至12時45分,下午2時30分至4時55分,地點本院紅樓302會議室,群圈樓9樓大禮堂。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1988.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2015.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
出席委員羅委員志強等12人﹖列席委員王委員易川等15人﹖列席官員12月18日監察院秘書長李俊毅等人﹖12月19日上午法務部部長鄭明謙等人﹖12月19日下午立法院秘書長周安來等人﹖主席吳釗吉委員鍾憲﹖12月18日報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定﹖討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管不含審計部及所屬收支部分﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2016.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2029.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
決議稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第62項照列第4款財產收入第68項照列第7款其他收入第68項照列稅務部分第6款監察院主管第一項照列本項提案39案保留送院會處理通過決議16項 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2031.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2045.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管收支部分不含審計部及所屬審查完略提報院會院會討論前需叫黨團協商院會討論時由吳昭吉委員中線出席說明12月19日上午審討論事項一至三 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2048.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2074.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分（法務部主管（法務部矯正機關作業基金（毒品防治基金收支部分四、審查法務部含送財團法人臺灣更生保護會福建更生保護會及犯罪被害人保護協會114年度預算書案五、併案審查委員徐巧欣等18人擬拒外溢兼條例第4條條文修正草案等3案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2075.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2095.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本日會議有委員黃國昌等11人提出質詢文、林思明等2人提出書面質詢。決議一報告及詢答完畢。二、第一案至第四案均令定期繼續審查。三、萬一間條例。第四條條文修正早案等3案進行逐條審查。第四條趙文、陳玉珍等19人提案通過。第21條不予修正維持現行條文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2096.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2118.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
等待審查完距離據審查報告提請院會公決,不需交由黨團協商,院會討論時由吳昭杰委員中綫出席說明。條次引述條文部分,文字及法、自用、自用與授權主席及系人員整理。次委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以順便答覆者請相關機關緊速送交個別委員及本會。五、審查委委員針對本日議程所列討論事項第一案之第四案之預算提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2120.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2139.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
請於12月24日星期二中午12時前送交本會預時不予受理。12月19日下午,討論四項,繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。決議一,114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第二十二項照列。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2140.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2165.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第四款財產收入第23項照列第七款其他收入第23項照列稅數部分第三款立法院主管第一項照列本項提案一項保留送用會處理通過決議39項中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分審查完均提報議員會因為討論權需叫黨團協商因為討論時由吳釗吉文中線出席說明二本四會通過這決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2171.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2190.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請問各位,上次會議議事錄有錯過遺漏?在場委員如果認為議事錄沒有錯過遺漏,我們就議事錄確認接著介紹到場委員及應邀列席官員首先介紹在場委員,歡迎黃委員國昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2191.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2216.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好,那剛剛還有翁委員小玲接著介紹應邀列席官員我們有行政院人事行政總處蘇俊榮人事長歡迎您淮旭常務副人事長歡迎您以及公務人力發展學院陳明忠院長歡迎您好,那麼其他名單想復建好,那麼其他機關列席機關代表不在足以介紹請參與名單並列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2220.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2244.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本次議程,排定繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分等二案。前近13年11月14日,立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議報告及詢問完畢,決議均另定其繼續審查。預算提案於11月21日下午10節止收件,源於今日繼續審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2246.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2257.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在進行本次議程討論事項先請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項所列114年度預算案之全部預算數及所收委員預算提案宣讀時間約6分鐘請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2260.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2279.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第1案114年度行政院人事行政總處稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第7項人事行政總處第8項公務人力發展學院均無劣數第4款財產收入第8項人事行政總處322000元第9項公務人力發展學院38555000元第7款其他收入第8項人事行政總處11000元第9項公務人力發展學院22萬元稅數部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2289.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2306.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第二款行政院主管第三項人事行政總處23億6159萬元第四款公務人力發展學院2億6347萬9千元第二案114年度中央公教人員急難救助基金基金運用計畫請參閱預算書總收入622萬3千元總支出105萬3千元本期剩餘517萬元宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2318.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2341.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
繼續宣讀委員提案部分請參與提案會整表及提案書面內容114年度中央政府總預算案委員提案會整表行政院人事行政總處主管收支部分稅出預算第二款第三項人事行政總處一案派員出國計畫總表檢列一百萬元為黃國昌等提案二案第一幕一般行政凍結一百萬元為吳思耀等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2342.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2364.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
此案第一目向下零二基本行政工作維持中業務費資訊服務費減列46萬2千元,凍結50萬元為温小林等提案。此案第一目向下零二中業務費之一般事務費減列175萬2千元,凍結50萬元為温小林等提案。五案之十一案針對第二目人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2366.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2394.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
五案解滅一千萬元凍結一千萬元委員黃國昌等提案。六案解滅一千萬元凍結一千萬元委員黃國昌等提案。七案凍結一千萬元委員黃國昌等提案。八案凍結一千萬元委員黃國昌等提案。九案凍結三百萬元委員林思明等提案。十案凍結一百五十萬元委員林思明等提案。十一案凍結一百萬元委員吳思耀等提案。十二案第2目向下零一人事行任綜合規劃凍結五十萬元委員陳俊宇等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2395.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2416.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
十三案第2目向下01中業務費至一般事務費凍結100萬元委員翁曉琳等提案。十四案至19案針對第2目向下02合理分合理配置主事人力中業務費。十四案案例案件暨支酬金凍結50%委員羅志強等提案。十五案其他業務租金凍結100%委員羅志強等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2419.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2438.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
十六案一般事務費減六五萬元為中嘉賓等提案。十七案一般事務費凍結百分之五十為羅志強等提案。十八案國內旅費凍結百分之五十為羅志強等提案。十九案國外旅費凍結百分之五十為羅志強等提案。二十案至二十二案針對第二幕向下零三公務人員培訓與考用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2439.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2461.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
二十案檢列五百萬元凍結五百萬元委員黃國昌等提案二十一案業務費之教育訓練費檢列四百萬元委員鍾嘉斌等提案二十二案業務費之國外旅費檢列二十八萬八千元委員吳宗憲等提案二十三案之二十五案針對第二幕向下零四及與福利制度規劃二十三案凍結三十萬元委員陳俊宇等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2462.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2482.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二十四案業務費至一般事務費減略十萬元為中嘉賓等提案。二十五案業務費至國外旅費凍結十二萬一千元為吳宗憲等提案。二十六案第二目向下零五人事資訊發展規劃中業務費至資訊服務費減略二百二十二萬七千元凍結一百五十萬元為吳小林等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2483.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2508.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
二十七案第二幕向下零五中設備及投資資訊軟硬體設備費減列二百三十三萬元凍結一百萬元文文賞鈴等提案二十八案至三十案針對第二幕向下零六智慧創新人事服務二十八案減列一千萬元凍結一千萬元文文王國昌等提案二十九案業務費資資訊服務費減列一百零三萬五千元凍結五十萬元文文賞鈴等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2510.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2535.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
30案設備及投資資訊軟硬體設備費結內509萬2千元凍結100萬元委員翁曉琳等提案。31案第二幕向下零期機關資料傳輸韌性強化結內46萬元凍結50萬元委員翁曉琳等提案。32案至50案分別委員陳俊宇等委員吳思耀等委員沈發慧等委員林思明等委員莊瑞雄等委員鍾嘉斌等所提主決議案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2537.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2555.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第二款第四項公務人力發展學院稅出預算51案至56案針對第二幕訓練輔導及研究51案凍結一百萬元委員無私要等提案。52案第二幕向下零二訓練輔導行政維持中用費之水電費檢列 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2556.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2575.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
三萬七千元維吾爾小林等提案五十三案零三人力資源研究發展中業務費資訊服務費結列二百一十二萬五千元凍結五十萬元維吾爾小林等提案五十四案零三中設備及投資資訊軟硬體設備費結列七十六萬四千元凍結五十萬元維吾爾小林等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2576.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2597.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
五十五萬零四智慧創新人事服務中業務費資訊服務費減列十萬元,凍結三十萬元為翁賞齡等提案。五十六萬零四中設備及投資資訊軟體設備費減列三三萬五千元,凍結五十萬元為翁賞齡等提案。五十七案、五十八案分別為委員吳思瑤等委員審發會等所提主決議案,宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2601.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2627.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
預算案數及所有提案均已宣讀完畢進行討論前先說明預算案的處理方式依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例稅務部分一來源別以向為單位稅務部分一機關別以目為單位分別依序進行審查各單位預算中與處理委員所提之增三提案後其餘未涉及之預算部分均以照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2628.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2649.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有關政事別稅出預算隨同機關別審查結果調整預算提案經由委員會幕僚的整理已經將所有所收的委員提案彙整成預算提案本並按照預算科目製作彙整表方便各位於審查時參考請大家分別參閱提案本及彙整表進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2651.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2675.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
另外,特別提醒機關,稍後經討論決議修正制預算提案,請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後,送交主席台並均列公報記錄。審查預算過程中,如有列行幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時,請先自行介紹職稱、姓名、必立公報人員記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2677.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2694.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 那麼我們現在進行討論事項第一案繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分那麼先處理稅務部分那因為沒有委員提案我們稅務預算均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2695.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2719.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好那麼接下來呢我們再來處理稅出的提案處理前先做說明依照委員會處理預算提案之慣例按照會審表所列的預算提案順序由提案委員先就提案內容進行說明之後呢再由機關代表予以答覆然後在整目一起處理做成決議原則上我們按照慣例盡可能採取共識的方式處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2721.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2740.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好那現在進行處理稅出部分請參閱提案本集會審表進行討論那我們就先看一案一案來我們先從稅出這個派員出國計畫總表這邊有黃委員國昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2752.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2778.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
提案人請說明人事總處過去這幾年實際上面關於有跟公務員有關係制度上面應該做的處理跟變革在我前幾次的質詢當中我講的很明白了你們表現讓人非常的失望人事長對於過去票票的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2779.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2791.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
也做了一些說明你也承認了就事論事回到出國考察的預算你們今年我講的今年是2024年113年你們出國計畫編列154萬合定88人明年膨脹到191萬合定168人天增加的比例太高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2808.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2825.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
從你們過去出國計畫回來到底針對我國的制度有什麼樣實際上面的效果跟反饋我老實講我完全看不到那這一項191萬8千元提案簡列100萬好 那麼請機關代表說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2834.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2861.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝黃委員的指教我想培養我們高階文官的國際視野讓他們出去跟國外對話這是一個非常重要的一個訓練的一個途徑而且整個訓練的一個過程我們也搭配整個國家的重大政策尤其在明年我們規劃比較多的是跟人工智慧應用有關的那希望這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2863.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2882.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
麻煩委員可以支持我們就凍結少一點不要看啦事實上我覺得過去這幾年來大家出國回來寫的報告被參佐的使用率大概都有六成以上那我覺得同仁也很認真收集資料出國前的資料收集 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2883.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2883.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
請問在場委員對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2905.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2933.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
人事行政總處第二款第三項的出國計畫總表當中有委員提案原列數191萬8千元提案簡列100萬元請問站長其他委員有沒有表示意見來請羅委員今天除了這個人事總處的預算以外那事實上我覺得也要從總體的這個預算審查的部分來表示一點我的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2934.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2946.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那台灣第一位主張就是要修財政收支劃分法要打破中央極權又極權的不公平的現象我不知道大家知道是誰嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2948.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2973.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這第一位提出這個主張人是誰就是我們當今的賴清德總統那所以我們這個上個禮拜五立法院真的是非常愛賴清德總統所以當民進黨都背叛賴清德總統的理念的時候在野黨在上個禮拜幫忙賴清德總統實現他多年的理想跟心願通過了財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2974.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2987.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
但我覺得在野黨也不對啦為什麼因為賴清德總統雖然曾經說要修裁認收支劃分法但那時候他可能沒有想過錢從哪裡來的問題所以今天民進黨就一直挨一直挨一直挨 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2987.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2989.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
錢從哪裡來?錢從哪裡來?其實今天我們在這裡審查預算我們就是來幫民進黨找錢錢從哪裡來?當然第一個我們知道中央政府的稅收超徵每年3000億、4000億、5000億完全可以cover |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3005.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3019.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這次財政收支劃分法關於這個中央必須要回到以前在精神之前往這個六四開的那個預算分配這以前曾經有過的一個比例我們現在是往那個方向走 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3020.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3040.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以3000多億我們目前超徵稅的時候是絕對能夠cover的但如果民進黨還是覺得錢不夠那更簡單因為實際上民進黨執政這8年賴清德總統應該也心中有非常多的不滿就蔡英文就浪費了8年各個部門所有的預算開綠燈愛花就花無限上綱 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3041.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3046.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就像前面指的所謂的監察院的預算竟然可以膨脹40%但是呢廢物到一塌糊塗還可以膨脹40%所以本席在這邊非常認同我們黃國昌委員很用功他今天也看了我們人事總處的那個出國的報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3061.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3080.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
既然民進黨這麼缺錢我們就從杜絕浪費開始所以請我們人事總處能夠把錢花在刀口上所以這個預算的簡略在我看來是讓我們人事總處能夠更精進的一個非常好的一個做法所以簡略一百萬本席表示支持那我們一起來幫民進黨找錢幫賴清德實現才化法這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3086.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3093.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
改革之後民進黨所擔心的財政問題就從杜絕政府浪費能夠尊潔財源開始做起。以上請莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3104.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3115.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
請問委員會因為過去在之前的審查機關預算的時候只要是出國旅費因為涉及到整個通案的處理是不是我們保留送院會協商? |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3118.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3133.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
可以啊我們反正就我覺得啦我們預算司法法制委員會審預算審到人總已經審了好幾個單位了嘛那每一個委員提案有每一個委員他的出發點他的想法他的政策立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3135.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3156.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
每一個委員為他自己的提案負政治責任因為我們在審預算的時候提案不管是刪減還是凍結有道理還是沒有道理全體的公民都在看如果我們的提案內容沒有辦法獲得行政機關的同意我建議就保留保留的時候到院會來處理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3159.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3160.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
請問莊委員有沒有要做補充說明?第二案,沒有。好,那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3176.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3193.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
第三個部分因為我們底下這個是不是都是在第一幕當中所以到二到四所以我們第三、第四一併討論現在我們先看第三案第三案有提案委員翁曉琳委員翁委員是不是要做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3196.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3200.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我這次在審查人事行政總處的預算的時候有發現人事總處在蠻多的資訊設備的經費部分大概近三年來很多的經費項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3218.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3234.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
跟就他的數字經費都沒有變啊然後所以在這一次的這個就我這裡的提案大部分都是針對資訊服務費的部分來進行一些小幅度的刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3235.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3244.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那麼以第三案來講這一筆經費主要是辦理檔案管理的作業項目的經費但是從110年開始到113年都是編列的是209萬而且這個歷年決標金額跟投標的廠商數 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3257.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3263.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
事實上就是到了這一兩年他的投標廠商就是左減變得都只有一家投標一家投標在這樣的一個情況之下我們認為說如果說得標廠商都是單一廠商投票而且得標金額每年都還要成長一成 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3277.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3277.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好,以上說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3302.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3321.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好,麻煩請監管代表說明謝謝委員給我們一個說明的機會事實上這幾年整個工資一直往上調那這一個檔案管理的一個監會200多萬裡面事實上有75%就是人事費用那隨著這幾年的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3322.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3350.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
的一個代議不管是政府機關或者民間代議調整事實上這一個我們是符合這樣的一個最基本的一個需求請委員能夠支持因為我想政府帶頭因為我們從OS是自己的預算是有限然後一直在去要求廠商能夠用原有的價錢來承受我覺得這樣對這些進行業業的廠商也不公平我們也希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3351.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3365.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
給一個廠商一個非常合理的一個利潤能夠持續把該做的事情的工作品質做好以上懇請委員支持不要刪減謝謝好請問在場其他委員有沒有其他意見要表達那麼還有第三案是不是也是翁委員的部分請一併提出說明第四案對不起第四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3382.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3410.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
第四案的部分呢主要是針對人事行政總處的水電費啦那因為這次也是看起來所有的機關裡面針對水電費的這個漲條幅都明顯的提高那麼以這一次人種的這個編列水電費的成長幅度高達27%我們到目前為止我們水電費也還沒有漲這麼多所以你的預期心裡是會有漲這麼高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3411.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3414.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我們認為說這樣子的這個漲幅是顯不合理而且也希望各個機關包含人種都能夠節電省電所以我們經過計算之後呢認為行政總處的這個編列的電費呢是超編了175萬那麼在這裡但是還是這個認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3434.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3434.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
請機關代表說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3461.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3488.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我真的謝謝委員因為委員看得蠻仔細的不過我這裡做兩個補充第一個就是我們這個經費的編列事實上是整個北棟聯合辦公道樓五個機關大家共同來分攤的我們在編這個明年的概算的時候大家有去討論那為什麼這個金額會比今年稍微高一點主要原因就是說我們有八部舊的電梯剛好在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3491.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3505.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
總緩過程中電力水電的部分會增加那在115之後因為我們換專比較新的節能的電梯之後在115的時候他整個電力的需求會往下降在轉換他剛好在轉換階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3507.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3523.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
最重要的一個這個經會不只是人種在這邊我們是五個北東的五個機關大家一起討論排出來了那這一部分說真的這個經會是大家來share的這個懇請委員來支持不要刪減真的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3526.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3555.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那人事長您的意思是說因為我們是用行政院的聯合辦公大樓那因為電梯太換所以在聯合辦公大樓裡面共同使用辦公室的各機關叫分攤但是是用管理費的形式去分攤電梯的一個改善的費用是嗎?所有的電、水、燙的都供給樂觀利用或者是說這些費用是水、電還有包括電梯的東西嗎?對對對都搭下去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3556.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3571.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
能不能分別說明一下因為我們一般在事前的審查若是水電費的部分也是通案檢討但是如果在當中可以區分成電梯的效能改善那就跟水電要做區分可是你們在預算編列上是合併在表現嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3576.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3594.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
人事總處秘書是蔡富雄蔡主任報告我們那個管理小組他運作模式五個機關進駐機關我們今年變多錢是因為我們的管理小組委員會開會決議明年我們的總整筆的行政管理費多少錢那行政管理費其實包含了水電瓦斯等等包含了設備的維護像 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3595.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3621.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
明年就要增加了大樓空調箱兩台消防緊急廣播系統揚聲器更新因為我們本身有第一樓到三樓是領事事務局發護照的那個部分那個民眾來這邊使用水電量我們是水管是同一條電也是同一條所以我們用分攤的比例那因為我們人事總處跟陸委會用樓地板面具分攤我們是一六三分之四十四分之一的股東 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3621.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3649.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以這個部分其實是我們佔了所有的編列的四分之一回推回來我們必須要編這麼多的管理費上繳我們的管理小組他包含了水電瓦斯等等什麼人事費清潔費環境消毒安全檢查像外牆前陣子外牆那個整修拉皮那個那個是安全的檢查這部分全部都是腳關有點類似我們自己住公寓大廈管理委員會我們的管理費交給公司以後是除了他統包的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3650.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3663.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以在水電部分我們真的沒辦法切割說我入耳會搭了18樓電梯我人事總部搭了10樓電梯搭了幾次是大家共同使用所以這個模式已經從85年運作到現在都是這個方式我們真的是非常難切割以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3665.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3681.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
謝謝說明請翁委員再來請莊委員可是因為你們向來的水電費就是都是憋大概64萬多而且過去說明都是說是這是給首長宿舍還有中間新村辦公室所需要的水電網絲費 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3682.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3691.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那麼為什麼你們之前都不需要分攤然後這次呢需要分攤而且你們主要是成長非常多啊你們這次是要編的是多少1894萬欸呃 對不起 呃 對 應該是 是吧1894萬對 這大幅的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3699.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3715.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
對,如果說按照剛剛人總這邊的說明但其實我們應該要把在北棟辦公大樓這裡到底有哪幾個部會的水電費都一起要來看說不定呢他們也編你們也編就重複都編很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3718.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3726.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
報告委員,不會有重複,不會有重複編,我覺得委員的這個疑慮我們之後會整理一下資料這四個機關,我們 summation 是多少,每一個機關分擔多少,我們提供這樣的資料給委員看我覺得這樣齁,能夠看到整個夫妻酒會比較完整,不然大家沒有看到完整的一個輪廓的話,會覺得我這裡邊他那邊會有 overlap 的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3746.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3758.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是因為主要是你們一大幅的成長你們過去都沒有編這麼高的水電費然後這次又成長得非常多然後再加上我們就算是預期114年電價會漲那我都給你們算得很清楚欸114年電價漲幅如果是10%扣除掉行政院所說的節電目標2%然後你們的成長就比113年又成長7.8%然後超出的部分當然要減劣 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3772.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3800.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
所以我們基本上是經過計算的我不是說隨便亂湊出這個數字那你們剛剛講的就是又要跟別的機關來分擔那個水電費我越聽越模糊那如果是這樣為什麼之前都不分擔那這次今年開始要分擔每一次都分擔那為什麼從以前成立北棟為什麼之前不需要這麼多的經費今年卻又大幅的成長只是因為換電梯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3802.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3812.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我不只是換電梯還有其他的設施的剛才我們蔡主任也提到有一些像空調的因為他有life cycle |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3813.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3839.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你如果新過的話一般來講會有保固一年你如果進入到第二年第三年有些設備的一個維護費用就會增加像我們大概年底到明年會換電梯那你換了新電梯它會有保固嘛保固期間的維護費就不會支付可是超過那個保固期間之後維護費用我們就要編列我們有一個比較完整的一個預算編列的一個procedure |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3842.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3861.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以你們管理費又變成是拿去當那個什麼這個設備的維護維修費喔因為那個設備喔大家每一個機關都要分攤各自編列然後一起去採購去更換傳統的從以前到現在都是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3863.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3877.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
來 有沒有那個莊委員要來請莊委員這個我會很認真在看你們的預算只是我在看我只有一個地方不明白啦你們這個不是什麼大錢啦但問題就是說為什麼今年編的會多增加了將近二十幾趴可不可以說明我因為你們公公媽媽不是什麼什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3887.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3901.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你就告訴我們為什麼你怎麼會給這20幾%出來這是我們應該是說管理委員會今年所要增加的項目是非常多剛剛跟到委員報告的比如說工資調上、廣播設備、大樓空調箱那些全部要統一因為我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3902.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3925.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
比如說我們今天有1000萬要用我們總人事總組要分攤250萬然後才能整個共同採購由今年的輪值機關是領事事務局當召集機關來做同意的採購那其實錢就是類似於說公寓大廈管理委員會裡面不管電梯馬達的維修都是這個方式我們是根據前面那個我們要分攤四分之一才要回推回來我們必須編組這麼多這個問題在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3927.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3950.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
委員的意思我另外一種方式來說明啦每年整個二十幾趴主要就是有空調箱還有緊急廣播嘛因為那個都要夠使用壽命的會增加一些項目所以預算當然會增加大概主要會增加在緊急廣播還有空調箱那部分啦同委我看這個給他支持他們這種單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3955.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3966.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我認為說,說得不清楚啦,就整個的,剛剛人總,就是在想這裡講,如果是那麼多不同的機關共同share,那你們到底是怎麼樣這個去分攤 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3968.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3981.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
相關的管理費還要支出哪些項目也是到你們剛剛講是我們才比較清楚那是不是可以給我一個報告然後那這裡的話還是要簡略對不對你們這個確實是跟其他的單位相比這邊的這個過高 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3988.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4005.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
各位委員請懇請委員你凍結就好因為那個簡略的部分因為事實上是我們幾個機關都有精算過啦那到時候你要有其他的公務來會有我們執行上會有責任人行 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4005.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4032.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好,人事長請教一下因為我們都希望說在委員這個預算的提案之後肯機關先去跟委員做說明聽起來我大概了解機關的說明的內容但是翁委員事前好像並不了解是這樣的編列方式那我是覺得第一啦我發現好像你們沒有去跟翁委員做說明那第二呢是不是現在這個部分我大概把你們的說明做個整理那個口頭的部分但是書面的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4033.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4060.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
能否提供很快的提供給歐盟人了解那原則上我們主席這邊處理的方式是這樣因為呢聽起來你們這個預算的涵蓋第一你們是聯合辦公大樓共同分攤總金額不是由你們決定那這當中呢區分成兩個部分一個叫設備一個叫做經常費用就是水電那如果水電的部分我們有提到因為我們委員會在審查各機關的預算都對於水電 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4061.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4077.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
是否有反應成本有按照這個電費水電費的調漲去做反應沒有過度的反應這個我們會要求所以這個部分純粹就每個月開支的水電費這個部分是希望是做通案的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4078.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4107.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那至於聯合辦公大樓你們幾個機關共用那共用的時候你們因為要更新設備所以這些更新的設備一定決定好一個金額之後大家來分攤所以也不是說我們這邊對人種做檢列那其他的陸委會其他的外交部的領事事務局那大家說好了要更新這個設備按你們的預算被檢列那就你們少分攤嗎這個我想也不是合理啦所以呢是不是你們能夠把這個區分開來雖然你們在預算科目上表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4109.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4110.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4127.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4148.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
一個公寓大樓收了每個戶的管理費他們累積這個收來的管理費他有一部分是去支應當月每個月不同的水電費的變動支出但是他會留一部分的錢定期的來幫大樓去更新包括電梯這些維護的這些資本門的支出那這個部分可能在 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4149.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4171.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
管理費的部分管理委員會會有做經常門跟置本門的分列但是就你們來講你們就是每年按照管理委員會所要的分攤比例你們當作經常門的支出來編列我所理解的是這樣子但你們這樣的編列方式就我們審查我們就很難區分不然的話我們都會看得到就像如果是水電費純粹是每個月變動的水電費是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4173.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4196.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
要更新電梯是一個,立法院就是這樣我們要更新電梯就是一個然後呢我們如果要更換空調的那個冰水那個系統那那個冰水系統因為一用就是用十幾二十年嘛那也是會分開列那如果這今年有編的冰水系統的更新不會每年都編列所以這個預算如果把它包在一起就會成成一個波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4197.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4217.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
平常的時候都是水電的經常支出,到了要更換設備的時候,那一年就會暴漲,就會漲起來。所以你們這個應該讓大家知道,讓我們委員知道說,你們這個變動有多少是來自於每個月的水電費的變動造成的,有多少是週期性的因為設備更新所造成的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4218.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4235.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個我們這樣聽起來才能理解,不然他會看到,欸是不是週期性的每到有重大設備要換的,你們那一年的就比前一年的基期就提早20%。這20%是反映在水電費的成長,還是反映在這些水電相關系統的更換。這點要做說明啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4235.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4250.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
好那因為我們本身也管過總務所以我希望說你們是不是可以很快的把這樣的一個情形描述給我們在場今天來審查的委員了解這個叫去年基期成長百分之二十幾是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4251.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4268.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
純粹反映在水電費的漲幅的預期還是一些定期更換的設備的週期到了你們必須同時去分擔這些更換設備所應要的支出這要講清楚請人事長再次回答回應一下非常謝謝趙委員我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4270.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4297.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
由一個總數1800多來看是一個總數可是它裡面大概會分三大類一個類似一個水電我們會用前後年的一個比較第二個是人事會因為人事會坦白講最近也這兩年也都有增加一些第三個就是剛才召委所提的它會有一些更換的這個設備的項目會有新增的更換項目所以這一部分的金額那我們會試著把 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4298.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4309.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
把這個1800、900萬的錢把它分成三、四個item這樣前後年比較就可以看得出來到底是水電有沒有成長成長是幾%這樣會比較清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4313.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4336.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那請問你們可以很快的時間至少3、5年的把它做出來嗎?就是說我聽懂了啦你們這一筆費用1800多萬有分成這個水電費那是每個月按照費率去調整的有漲才有提沒有漲就沒有提高人事費也是按照我們整個薪資的比例去調整但是所謂設備的更新這不是每年都有的這是週期性的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4337.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4360.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那如果週期六年發生,發生的那一年當然這部分的費用就跳起來嘛那你們可不可以就這三個item這三個部分你們把過去三年的或五年的我們這個案子先暫保留你們把這個整理出來我們提供給有意見的委員瞭解後我們這個部分呢我會這樣的處理如果是屬於系統更新週期性的更新的部分那我們就請委員看要怎麼樣來審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4361.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4388.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那如果是屬於經常性的水電會或人事會隨著整體的物價或者這個去調整的那個會比較是通案因為現在委員們對於說明年我們各機關的水電會的支出是不是有過度反映了預期的漲幅以至於過度調高這是我們關心的那個會通案處理但是如果是屬於系統週期性的太舊更新所必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4389.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4396.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這個其實委員會何時的來給予支持?我想這一點請你們是不是很快的幾點之前可以提供?黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4402.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4424.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
支持這個案子保留第二個請你們提供剛剛召委所說的資料之餘你們剛剛所講的有一個管理委員會有做一個決議有一個會議紀錄對吧把那個管理委員會的會議紀錄完整的每一個委員都發一份因為我要處理因為我覺得翁委員很用心 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4426.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4453.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
算成這個樣子不容易那要處理的話恐怕只處理人種對你們不公平那我認為要處理就是全面的處理這五個單位到時候東西來了以後我看完了我會去跟其他四個單位對他們預算到底怎麼編的看是不是如同任市長所講的大家編列的原則、漲幅通通都一樣那這個需要時間去做比對 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4455.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4482.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那所以我即時就要就先保留。好,我們本案暫保留。那麼機關代表什麼時候可以送到我們當道的處理。原則上我們今天上午的會議到12點。大概是這樣的情況。那這個部分的我們第一幕一般行政提案案號二案到四案起暫保留。好,我們接下來往下走。那個從第五案到第17案到31案是同一幕。那這當中呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4486.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4495.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
有改成主決的部分我先把它點出來那麼請委員翻閱我們的會整表的第二頁從第5案到第30 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4500.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4527.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
一案那大概目前已經有改列為主決議的有第九案第二頁的第九案第十案第十二案第十四案第十五案那十五案他是併十四案改組決議第十七案十七案併十四案改組決議第十八案也是併十四案十九案也是併十四案然後呢第二十三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4527.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4544.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
改組決議這是目前改組決的情況那是否改組決的部分我們在場的委員就同意好 經理官有沒有意見那我們組決是到後面再處理嗎好 那這些組決議的部分我們到後面討論組決議的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4546.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4547.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
第二款第三項第二幕人事行政之政策規劃執行及發展總共編列了一億九千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4577.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4605.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
在新的國會的時候我從3月問到9月軍公教待遇法制化的事情早就該做了我在質詢的時候說得很清楚了兩次質詢把軍公教待遇法制化的事情兩次質詢我已經說得非常的清楚了人事長在這邊信誓旦旦年底以前東西會送來立法院東西在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4607.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4630.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
你信誓旦旦喔年底以前東西會送來立法院東西在哪裡反正我們預算的處理啦我看12月底也不可能一定是延會到1月才處理啦所以這一案你要不然就接受你要不然就保留你12月底東西有送來我自己測案你12月底東西沒有設來 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4632.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4650.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
沒有送來,那我就會堅持。你在國會裡面做的承諾,你...你不會都親嘴公公的。現在時間還不夠啦。12月底還沒到嘛,那我就等你啊。我等你到12月底啊。12月底東西送來,我撤案。12月底東西沒有送來,我堅持到底。 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4658.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4678.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那麼請機關代表回覆陳如黃總召所提的啦我現在把整個我們處理的一個程序做一個補充啦我們在12月不好意思齁我們現在是在審預算啦現在是在審預算你要接受不要接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4684.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4704.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你年底東西可不可以送來你現在講啦我對人事長沒有不敬的意思啊但你應該可以理解我的心情啊你講的話在我心目當中可信度很低啦2018年我幫消防弟兄發聲跟你講公務人員安慰辦法要修你2018年給我承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4706.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4716.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我2024年回來立法院的時候我就問你第一件事情你2018年答應我什麼你記不記得結果你完全忘記我還要把會議記錄調出來公教人員的安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4722.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4745.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
明面上面雖然是考試院保訓會實質上面是人總要負責一起處理的我2018年問你這件事情的時候你也承認你也說你要做做到2024年什麼事情都沒有做軍公教待遇法治化的事情也是一樣拖了多久了我兩次質詢講得很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4746.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4775.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
你在國會裡面拍胸脯跟我信誓旦旦說年底以前才會送來我尊重人事長在國會裡面所做的承諾所以我的提案很簡單你年底以前東西送來我撤案你年底以前東西沒有送來那我就會堅持到底事情就這麼簡單好因為黃委員剛剛的發言已經也包含了第六案了是不是請那個人事長第五案第六案就一併說明那其他委員有意見的待會再提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4777.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4793.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那個我想在立法院的答應我們一定是較拚較驚啦因為就是舍業底啦舍業底我們就尊重總召的意思啦我們事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4794.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4812.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
現在程序等於最後一個階段要等排入行政院的院會如果送出來我們會趕水月底事實上我們一直有on schedule在進行來請問在場其他委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4814.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4829.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
關於第五案、第六案,因為也是說,其實這樣的,的確第六案的部分其實主席本席這邊過去在質詢的時候也有就安慰辦法就教於人總跟保訓委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4830.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4843.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那麼其實兩個機關因為職場的關係各有所要照顧的部分但是要合作共同來提那人總的部分還要經過行政院院會那然後還要院紀協調還要跟考試院協調所以我想這個之間跟考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4846.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4862.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
保訓會那邊大家彼此在法規上的分工跟協調應該要趕快的去進行那既然人事長認為說在12月底前可以救人總的部分先將本委員會做出關於預算審查的時候你們應盡應違的報告那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4865.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4879.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
先五、六案也是暫保留但我們繼續往下走那麼請教黃委員因為我們還沒有這個幕要整個處理所以黃委員是不是後面還有第七案、第八案以及第20案及第28案還有78、20、28 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4885.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4891.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
黃總召是第五案第五案第五案第五案第五案第五案第五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4903.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4913.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
主席各位委員好我任總綜合規劃處處長陳月春報告有關黃委員提案第6案的部分是要請我們會同保訓會召開相關的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4918.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4945.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
延定公務人員保障法公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法增訂對機關之法則這個提案的部分我們是這個部分保証會我們也跟他們有密切的保持聯繫那目前來講的話因應近期霸凌的案件他整個安慰辦法保障法他們現在正在邀集相關心理法律人資的相關專家的學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4946.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4966.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
議會召開座談會。預計在明年的二、三月會就諮詢的結果與相關主管機關當然這個包含勞動部還有我們總處會持續來做會議的一個研討。保訓會那邊也已經明確跟我們表達就是說法案會在明年預計明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4968.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4986.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
4月底前會完成修正草案送考4院審議整個審議完之後他們的期程規劃是5月底前要送到立法院來所以在第6案的提案部分我們是不是建議委員可以讓我們改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4989.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5013.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
請問剛剛發言是給予福利處嗎我綜合規劃處陳處長抱歉好謝謝那個剛剛第五案的部分人事長已經說是12月前會將的進度提交那所以我們剛剛保留的是第五案現在講的是第六案第六案的部分現在黃委員有意見來請對不起我沒辦法同意我簡單講第六案跟第七案我一併講過去這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5017.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5035.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我講的過去這段時間不是一個月兩個月三個月或六個月是好幾年了是好幾年了從2018年我開始質詢這件事情大家看到的是什麼我們的公部門機關啊踢皮球大賽大家都在踢皮球啊人總考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5047.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5073.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
勞動部三個機關我們蕭王弟兄要的是安慰棒是直接把它放在職業安全衛生法裡面問勞動部勞動部說這個要尊重行政院這邊其他機關的意見考試院說要跟人總這邊商議然後人總認為是考試院的事情我做事很公平人總放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5074.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5102.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我要處理這件事情所有曾經參與踢皮球的機關我是全面處理我不會只處理人種我是全面處理處理到這件事情獲得解決為止到時候各個機關大家都不要推命運共同體責任共同承擔事情有做出來各個機關的通通都解凍事情沒有做出來就繼續動下去動到你們把事情做出來為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5104.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5125.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以對不起我沒有辦法同意你改成主決議報告委員那是不是可以如果是這樣子的話不要簡列用凍結的方式凍結第6案第7案各凍結100萬可不可以支持來請換委員第6案我同意簡列 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5126.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5141.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我先拿掉但凍結一千萬我沒有辦法退你如果只願意凍結一百萬那就沒有辦法處理那就保留好來目前我們剛剛第五案是保留啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5142.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5156.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
第6案、第7案因為這兩個屬性我大概做一個釐清關於消防弟兄其實在過去這幾年也包括社會上看到類似像火神的眼淚這些直接刻劃消防人員他們的辛勞危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5158.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5176.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那所發生的事故包括我所在的屏東縣政府我們的消防局的消防弟兄在這兩年也遭逢了相當慘痛的一個犧牲那我想這個都是全國人民所不捨的所以這裡面涉及到三個部分那關於消防人員的部分他就涉及到消防法 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5176.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5194.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
目前這是內政部所主管但是在火場發生現場的工廠倉儲這幾年來也發生了雖消防員但是是屬於勞工就像前兩天倉儲發生的大火不是消防弟兄但是是現場的工班是全體的避難 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5196.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5212.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那這個部分這的確是在我們職業安全衛生法是勞動部主管的勞動部主管的職業安全衛生法對職場的安全的部分是不分你是消防員還是原來在工班的工作人員所以消防 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5213.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5239.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
職業安全衛生法既規範民間企業的工作勞工也規範因為執行公務而進入的包括消防員但因為消防員本身的身份他是公務員所以又跑到保訓會的公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法但是這個辦法又不是只顧及到消防員也不是關係到這個職業安全衛生法還包括最近發生的職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5239.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5267.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那麼的確剛剛黃委員的說明社會都在看那過去這幾年來也不只是2018年2018年更早之前類似的不管是公務員本身還是職場發生的事故只要發生事故大家來檢討那相關主管機關就要去修他們的所主管的法規但是剛剛聽起來機關代表的說明會讓我們感覺到前面發生的是消防員2018年發生的這真的不是只有2018年 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5268.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5288.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那可是呢相關的勞動部或者是消防署他有沒有動但是牽動到我們公務員身份屬性的安慰辦法那我們要趕快去處理那可是處理就沒有結果了那到現在呢又發生了一個霸凌事件又說要全面的檢討好像每次的這個會診的檢討的調整都因為就案 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5292.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5314.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所因應為的調整還沒做好又發生了新案就併同新案繼續研議我想這個是國人所不能接受的等於是你沒完沒了嘛因為舊案發生了我們舊案在檢討啊要修改啊修改都還沒議定又發生新案因為新案的關係新案的特性新案的情境我們要針對新案的部分來做進行檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5316.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5345.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那這樣子只要有繼續新案發生這個法規的檢討就永遠沒有辦法抵定啦我想今天我們在這裡審查預算的時候大家所凸顯出來的問題的確有行政機關在這方面我不敢說是刻意的怠惰但是呢在這個推捏或者說沒有積極的從事這樣的心態呢的確是我們社會上大家國人如果真有這種情況是不能接受的所以剛剛這個黃委員所提出的他說他簡略他可以先 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5346.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5347.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5361.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5388.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
包括消防署包括勞動部關係到的這些這些不是只有公務員的部分還關係到其他的職場勞工我想這個部分呢是不是請人總機關代表人事長可以做一個完整的說明讓我們知道全貌是否是大家所看到的這個外觀的情況是不斷的新的事件發生你們就不斷的呢再根據真的新的事件再倒車回去重新檢討那永遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5389.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5403.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
永遠沒有出爐的一天嘛。是不是請機關代表回覆。好,謝謝趙偉給我們這個說明的機會。事實上在過去上一年我們已經也跟考試院還有保訓會還有勞動部還有內政部有針對那個治安法還有安慰棒法 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5409.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5430.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
相關的去做一些釐清那新任的考試院做院長他也提了把霸凌的部分也一併會在5月底以前所以我想我就支持那個就是尊重總召剛才的採釋就是不刪子棟金額就尊重黃總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5432.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5455.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好,那麼是這樣,那就是第6案跟第7案,第7案是那個職安法跟安慰辦法,那這個第7案是比較,應該不是限於消防員,因為提案說明很清楚,那至於第6案的部分,因為職安法是屬於勞動部所主管的, |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5456.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5478.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那麼第六案呢案外辦法呢是考試院跟行政院這邊要求公務員部分共同來協商那剛剛任市長提到是五月份那這樣的話一千萬的部分凍結一千萬那麼結凍的條件是經司法法制委員會同意後時的凍資請問在場委員我們是不是就這樣的方式來安排進行來怎麼樣請說明陳處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5483.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5499.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
不好意思我可不可以委員可以支持就是說我們在第6案的部分的話是我們3個月內向司法法制委員會提出書面報告使得動之那第7案的部分的話第6案我直接跟你講不可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5501.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5515.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
好那第七案的部分這邊有提到就是說要一個月內做成書面報告經司法法制委員會同意時的動制那這一個月內可不可以三個月可以所以兩個案第六案是有沒有寫幾個月啊沒有餒第六案沒有寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5532.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5557.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
第六案的部分的話在最後一段我們剛剛跟委員有提到建議就是說在倒數第二最後一行那個部分倒數第二行後面代法案送至立法院後經司法法制委員會同意時的動之我們是希望可以修說三個月三個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5558.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5578.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那個就沒有三個月了所以我想這裡的條件跟其成無關因為這個搞不好要跟考試院會嫌是不是這樣子所以這個部分或許或許就看法案什麼時候送到立法院那個就從那個時間點開始算了那第七案的部分是三個月那因為第七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5579.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5604.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
第七案的部分因為是行政院內嘛就你們跟勞動部的職安法跟主席報告其實這邊提到的就是說公務人員到底適用職安法還是安慰辦法其實這跟第六案的情形一樣是整個要來做一個通盤的一個檢討所以在那個第二段的那個決議提案裡面我們是剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5606.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5628.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
就是說最後就是說沒有那個處長你不用說了因為你講得很清楚了啦三個月他說適用啦適用就讓你們就這個案子的適用的情況做說明而已那前案是要法案一個是就適用沒有要你去不是要你去去修法因為這個治安法也不是你修的啊對不對也不是你們主管的嘛但是如何適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5629.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5646.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
人總要有一個主張要有一個看法那這個看法跟主張那未來我們本委員會其他的委員如果在審治安法的時候他們就可以參酌所以三個月就他的適用提出個書面報告那前案呢就是送法案送到立法院那你們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5648.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5676.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們就可以來進行討論要不要動之所以第六案就動一簽那麼法案送立法院經本委員會同意後時的動之第七案是三個月將這個書面報告送本委員會那麼我請教一下那個黃總召那個如果是這樣的話因為職安法不是人事總處所主管的那這個書面報告坦白說 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5678.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5706.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們委員會來同意是否是要加個同意因為這個部分目的是要他們做出一個說明那這個可能未來在修法的時候是在未還委員會那邊那請教我們黃總召的看法我還是認為要司法法制委員會同意後才可以通知啊兩個理由行政機關的書面報告我看太多了啦答非所問 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5708.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5732.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
檢貼貼文啊我真的看太多了啦所以這個一定要送來這邊同意第二個就治安法的部分喔你們最後的結論很有可能是就不適合用嘛但不適合用我要看到的書面報告是什麼如果不適合用的話還有下一個階段的問題治安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5733.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5762.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
跟安慰辦法也好公務人員保障法也好最大的不同在哪裡最大的不同是在治安法裡面他針對各種不同情況的工作職業寫的是鉅細米疑啊但呢在我們公務人員體系啊不要說到鉅細米疑啊是空洞貧乏兩個差距太遠了兩個差距太遠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5763.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5781.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
你到時候要跟大家講要適用職安法沒有可能事情還沒結束喔那如果適用職安法沒有可能的話那從公務人員保障法到安慰辦法到人種的業務是不是應該要像職業安全衛生法一樣你把各式各樣不同狀況的指引給做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5795.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5807.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
過去就是因為消極怠惰根本沒有在做嘛所以我才用空洞平法四個字來加以形容嘛阿如果勞動部針對職業安全衛生法可以搞出那麼多指引出來為什麼在公務人員的體系卻是一片空白我找不到理由阿因為公務人員比較好處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5821.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5849.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
因為公務人員不用收到應該有必要的保護嗎?因為公務人員這些規範最好不要施加比較好嗎?我不知道理由是什麼但我看到的是結果面什麼叫結果面職業安全衛生法裡面很多質疑公務人員保障法到安慰辦法下面一片空白落差太大了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5850.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5866.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
回覆召委剛剛的詢問第7案我還是堅持要經司法制同意使能動之那我想這樣因為第6案跟第7案都是要經本委員同意或使得動之那似乎金額的部分是不是就並同處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5867.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5886.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
不行 分開來好 那麼請問那個機關代表你們對於第7案因為第7案的時程比較你們能夠控制這跟第6案你們要等考試院會嫌還要送到法案送到立法院這個部分的時程你們比較難掌握那這兩個部分請機關代表有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5888.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5910.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
第七案動一千萬因為直接我們可以行政院內部協調希望動一千萬維持那第六案能不能凍結金額能夠少一點因為還要跟考試院那裡相關我覺得一個案子一個案子剛講好我都已經點頭第六案三的我已經把它拿掉了只動欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5912.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5937.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我第六案我已經很客氣把刪的都拿掉了欸你如果真的要嚴肅來跟我講第六案我當初為什麼會要刪一千萬我過去要刪的一千萬就是對於你們過去這六年毫無作為的懲罰啊我之前在審其他機關的預算的時候我講得很清楚我在處理預算的態度是你該做的事情沒有做這件事情必須要有consequence |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5939.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5959.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我第六案的部分我剛已經釋出善意了三一千萬我拿掉然後就動一千萬啊你們剛點頭同意現在你是要回頭來揮嗎啊你如果要回頭來揮那沒關係啊那我就回到我本來的提案啊啊剛剛第七案你跟我開口說要三個月我也點頭啦這樣啦黃總召是這樣齁我是覺得第六案第一案其實在同一幕下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5967.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5996.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那對機關來講對他的效果是不太一樣的因為第七案是他自己能夠比較有較大的責任那麼如果一千萬他做不到他自己要承擔但是第六案呢他涉及到其他的機關其實如果從這兩個案子人事總署所扮演的積極性跟所承擔能力來講的確第七案如果說是如果從一千萬的金額來說他動一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5996.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5997.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6019.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6042.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
責任跟壓力跟第七案他比較有主導性他也能夠去促成那麼這個動了一千萬有對他來講有鞭策的效果所以我是想跟黃總召打個商量如果說是這樣子是不是第七案如果是機關代表希望維持一千萬第六案可以著雨降低然後呢讓機關他很清楚知道他的主婦兩個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6045.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6066.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
主從啊他第7案呢他自己能主導的他這1000萬要解凍他必須多努力至於第6案如果因著其他機關的延誤而造成他機關預算上的滋用造成妨礙這個是不是可以請總召這邊黃總召這邊考量一下要求是我主席這邊齁做一個這樣的一個討論我聽到了對不起沒辦法同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6069.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6075.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好謝謝那麼請問其他委員那麼我們第6案第7案那麼後面還有是不是黃總到這邊繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6077.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6101.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
不好意思喔我們每個按照順序來嘛第6案跟第7案現在請問現在有結論了嗎剛剛我提的要求他們不是同意了嗎所以現在第6案跟第7案到底有結論還是沒有結論因為本來是要委員全部都提出之後我們就一併處理那是因為聽起來剛剛因為機關代表希望趕快能救第6案能夠有一個定論所以我就先處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6104.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6128.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
第6案處理完了嗎?第7案處理完了嗎?第7案的部分他們有做一個表示了那我是不是因為後面還有其他提案是類似的因為第8案有一個服刑辦法是不是?第8案歸第8案嘛現在我的問題很具體剛剛第7案他們行政機關要求給他們3個月我點頭同意了所以我現在請教的是第7案處理完沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6130.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6154.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這樣子根本沒完沒了嘛。好,那麼因為黃總召這邊後面第7案我們剛剛有做了討論還有第8案、第20案及第28案好,那部分我們就第7案我們就動1000萬送書面報告經同意後使得動之。好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6157.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6181.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
第8案還有第20案及28案。然後現在進入第8案的部分那第8案的部分真的是跟我們很多公務員他們的權益是有關係的我基本上面的立場是國家要尊潔之初這個我一定是百分之百支持我們行政院院長卓榮泰他所下的指令 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6182.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6208.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以我說過卓榮泰的要求跟吩咐我們一定會落實在這個會期預算的審查之上不可以浪費公帑國家預算要遵截但是在另外一方面針對有關於公務人員超時工作上面的問題那個是跟前面那個霸凌清楚的連結在一起因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6210.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6225.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
在那個案子裡面我們清楚的看到了超時工作沒有得到應該有的補償的這件事情這個對於全體的公務員都是一個很大的傷害所以就針對有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6228.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6244.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
行政院跟所屬中央地方機關公務員扶勤實施辦法各機關加班費支給辦法這件事情我們要求針對你們到底要怎麼樣能夠落實4至785號所要求的內容必須要提具體的檢討報告而且要公開上網讓所有的公務員都可以看得到要不然大家現在要打夾卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6257.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6258.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好 今天代表請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6275.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6298.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我這裡大概可以就是按照黃總召的意思我們會把整個調查報告在網路上做揭露同樣的我們也會再請問給所有的機關必須要去按照加班的相關的辦法來實施就是避免打假卡的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6302.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6304.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
來請先說明是 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6307.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6336.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
教委各位委員好喔那個培訓考用處處長李華叔是這樣子剛剛那個人事長已經宣誓就是說我們會把那個檢討的報告公開上網那此外事上我們從去年到今年開始我們已經有辦了10場次宣導說明會也有辦了10場次的實地訪視我們都有去實地親親基層公務員的意見那我們會遵照那個黃總召的意思就是我們會寫個檢討報告公開上網那這邊就是建請是不是就 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6336.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6364.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
可以改成主決?因為黃委員的意思,我們都會照辦了。你把報告送來嗎?你把報告送來,看完了以後大家滿意這個報告的內容再解到嗎?那這樣文字的部分是不是我們黃委員同意就是我們凍結少一點,因為我們都會照做。是不是凍結100萬,然後文字調整成就是三個月交書面報告,經司法及法制委員會同意後凍結?可以。 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6369.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6395.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
目前第8案動100萬提書面報告後經同意後時的動資我跟機關代表說明一下這個凍結的預算到我們下會期何時由當時的輪值召委來安排決定解凍這個部分就是下個會期的事情了是否能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6398.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6417.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
機關代表要衡量你們預算之用的期程你們目前是兩個一百一千萬一個一百萬這個部分做個提醒那麼機關的運作在你們總編列的預算額度向下那因為我們每都是按計播用嘛每個月去執行嘛那你們動機的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6419.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6434.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政院主管收支部分關於行政院人事行政院主管收支部分關於行政院主管收支部分關於行政院主管收支部分關於行政院主管收支部分關於行政院主管收支部分關於行政院主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6448.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6473.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
在麗昂在台南七股那光電的畢業案非常的扯啦最後台南市辦一個局長經濟部辦一個公務員我自己的看法是不公不義啊抓小放大但是那偵查機關的事情跟人總沒有關係但人總在處理這件事情上面最讓我困惑的事情是什麼最讓我困惑的是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6474.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6502.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那一個設斃的太陽光店的組長被你們頒發模範公務員模範公務員的等級是什麼模範公務員的等級是不是所有考甲等的公務員都可以當模範公務員那的標準是很高的那很高耶那是公務員的表率那是公務員的楷模才可以當模範公務員這是我的理解啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6503.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6526.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
發射了這個弊案以後你們說他調離限職有降調但是模範公務員不能撤銷要等到三省定業我聽不懂啦概念上面是形成並行欸形成並行這是我國現行的制度啊更何況這根本還不到懲戒的程度欸你搞成這個樣子模範公務員欸標準在那 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6532.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6558.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
然後我跟你們講這件事情要處理你們就是不處理說要等到三省定業是怎樣把模範公務員撤銷行政院會丟臉是不是當初怎麼搬行政公務員當初怎麼搬模範公務員給他的行政上可以調離主管離主管值可以降掉但模範公務員這個絕對不能拿走要等到三省定業 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6560.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6568.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
你們這樣的標準跟處理我沒有辦法接受啦二十案就是針對這個案子在做處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6573.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6596.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
執行官代表請說明執行官代表請陳處長是這樣子那個根據那個經濟部那邊他們提供給我們的說明資料是說因為他現在法院還在審理當中也就是說這個零元到底是他實際上最後的刑事責任是什麼他們那邊還沒有確定所以他們要等到至少你一審判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6597.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6619.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
東西就是判決的結果要出來的時候他們就會依照行政院模範公園要點的規定去撤銷抱怨撤銷那這個部分跟委員報告就是說必須要由原本的零件機關來做處理的原因是因為當時候的零件的事蹟是發生在經濟部那現在的圍屍行為也是發生在當時候的零件時機所以他們經濟部要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6619.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6649.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
做整體的考量而且要開考機會等等此類那此外就是跟委員報告一下之前模範公務員撤銷曾經有三個案例那其中一個案例的話就是判決有罪確定那另外兩個案例分別是彈劾成立那0元目前的狀況都不是這樣的情形那此外我們模範要點在今年10月份已經有完備修正有增列消極條件跟積極條件那以後就算是核定了之後再發生的為時日事實都可以廢止其資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6649.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6672.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那零元的部分因為它是符合撤銷的所以它是到時候如果有罪確定的話經濟部那邊會依規定來辦理以上好 那好 來黃委員對嘛 所以我剛剛就跟你講嘛你們現在給我的解釋跟說辭跟我們現行的法律制度的體系是形成並行我應該沒有理解錯誤吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6678.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6700.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
什麼叫做行程併行行程併行就是不用等到刑事判決確定阿如果按照你們那樣的說辭可以成立的話他主管職也不應該拔阿他也不應該被降掉阿通通不准動阿等到刑事判決確定以後再來處理阿但這個是我們行政部門現在所在遵循的法規範體系嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6702.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6723.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個就是我們行政院的關針嗎那你們如果堅持要這樣做那也沒有關係那這案就保留也沒必要再爭執下去了因為我們彼此之間在看這件事情的出發點適用的基準跟所持的立場完全不同我沒有辦法接受任總剛剛所做那樣的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6726.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6727.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
請李處長再次回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6745.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6764.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個部分我們就遵照黃總召的意思,那是不是就是不要剪裂,然後我們改凍結就好,那我們就是一樣三個月內我們去向黃總召報告,那也向司法及法制提書面報告之後就是使得凍結。我這邊意思是說你們不是只有黃總召,我也很好奇啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6766.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6768.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
二十八案的部分就那個AI人事法規生成系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6785.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6795.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我這樣講好了AI人事法規生成系統我其實有質詢過那你們後來所繳來的一些說明用了450幾萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6800.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6817.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
485萬嘛485萬對於我們人事處或者是人事主管單位的統人工作效率的提升你們目前所繳來的數字我覺得是有成效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6818.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6839.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我這個人是有疑所以啦那我只是希望說你們要注意兩件事第一個事情是那個AI所產生出來的答案的正確性就是說你們當然AI只是一個初步的嘛你初步完了承辦人還是要做double check嘛但是初步給你們那個成果本身就讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6842.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6852.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
呃,承辦人員在處理這些事情的時候可以從多如牛毛的人事法規當中有一個大方向的指引因而提升工作效能這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6853.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6874.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我是肯定的但我希望你們要再去檢討一下因為我看那個使用的次數你們的次數表後來有交給我我看一看我腦袋裡面有一個很疑惑的事情這到底是好用還是不好用如果按照你們跟我講的這麼好用怎麼會次數看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6875.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6897.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
就好像不是這麼一回事啦一個好用的東西使用的次數某個程度上面來講是偏低嘛因為你們有每個月可以使用的token數這個我知道那我看完了我只有一個好奇就是說欸那如果這麼好用應該是這個每個月的token數會用到爆表就是用到 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6898.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6911.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
全部都把它耗盡了但實際上面的數字看起來又不是這樣但我長話短說針對這個案子你們提案要求來變組決議我可以同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6912.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6932.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
不用凍結不用剪裂不用凍結不用剪裂那這個東西對你們工作有幫助我願意支持但我希望你們在做這件事情的時候我希望透過主決議的方式就按照你們所建議的那個方式去跟廠商好好商量一下也去跟同仁了解一下是我們推廣不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6933.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6959.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
還是同仁他對於使用這個東西要怎麼入手這件事情還沒有那麼的熟悉這件事情給你們時間跟空間去做推廣然後我們等到明年此時此刻再來審預算的時候我會再一次的review這個AI人事法規對於我們相關人事的同仁他們所可能工作上面所可以產生的效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6959.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6963.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以這個案子我願意依照人總的建議就把它改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6966.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6988.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
謝謝總召因為主決因為我21案跟28案是有相關的因為黃總召的案子比較多相當先講但事實上我的21案跟這個28案都是在同一次的業務質詢的時候業務報告質詢當中我有聽黃總召提那我也理解剛剛他說的token這個問題那他目前願意改為主決議那你們要先擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6989.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7019.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
好先你那在你的時間齁我還是要呢先因為跟我的21案有點關聯啊那我是覺得請那個人事長先就21案跟28案你先看一下不見得你這邊黃總召的這個改為主決議你們能他他的案子你能通過本席的案子21案你們就能通過所以我是覺得你們要思考清楚齁那這個部分呢因為黃總召的第8第28案齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7019.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7019.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7598.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7626.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那我們繼續開會那因為接下來有翁委員的提案那我們等翁委員回來之後呢再處理翁委員的提案那剛剛呢因為本席的21案跟剛剛討論的28案來組決議都是AI部分那我們是請陳委員來幫代理主席那我來先處理20本席的第21案那處理完之後呢我們再回過頭去從前面的翁小林委員案的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7637.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7643.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
針對21案請我們提案的總嘉賓趙偉做補充說明。我想21案之前任總有來跟本席溝通。本席希望在我們審查的時候請任總做個說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7655.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7674.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那尤其是剛剛在第28案黃總召提到的AI部分事實上在之前的業務報告當中我也聽到黃總召對於這個token的使用使用的次數跟頻率那事實上這的確是人種本身對於AI人工智慧你們購買了這樣的服務那有沒有充分的善用這的確是一個關鍵的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7676.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7691.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那剛剛該案那個黃總統也同意改為主決議那本案部分我是關切到說因為在現在人總不是只負責自己機關的AI的導入運用他還包括整個行政院相關的機關我們現在講的兩個部分一般AI在機關裡面它會歸給資訊人員去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7699.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7721.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
就認為這AI是資訊人員的事情那事實上這不是不完整的如果只是資訊人員那就是速發部對這些在各機關的資訊人員做一個統合的配合速發部的跟各機關的互動他就做統合的一個研習但是就人總部分人總管的是全國的個人事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7722.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7750.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
人事人員在各全國各機關當中他如果能夠善用AI這樣的一個便利的工具的確可以發揮到協助機關做很多很多的事情我舉大家目前的我們社會眾所關注的所謂的霸凌的事件霸凌啊不是只有公部門也有可是感覺上最近為什麼公部門比較多那反而民間部門我們有聽過但是比較不是說職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7751.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7776.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
私部門呢我們聽到民間部門就是勞資爭議那為什麼會是這樣子那我先從霸凌來分析因為在民間企業啊如果說主管對於他的屬下的表現不滿意他有絕對的人事的權利他可以把他開除他可以開除所以呢也沒有所謂的因為不能開除所以呢做一些要求而 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7777.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7790.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
而被要求者認為不合理就認為這是霸凌但是在公務機關因為公務員有身份保障甚至連考機要讓他剔除都要連續兩年考列平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7791.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7810.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以對於機關的人事管理來講上對下的管理來講當然因為身份保障使得這個管理的貫徹上會產生一個不如民間企業那麼的迅速跟直接那會產生衍生用其他的管理方式說得白一點或者說得不好聽一點因為不能夠開除你 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7811.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7826.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以呢就讓你覺得這個機關你帶不下去希望你自己找其他機關去這個說白了在公務機關的潛規則我們都了解一些主管的心態這種心態健不健康是不是我們要鼓勵的這是另當別論當然發生的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7828.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7846.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
就是因為公務員有身份保障那麼主管在不能夠令其去職的情況之下希望他自己另謀高就調到其他機關去所以可能相對的選擇性的差別性的對他施予比較可能不盡合理的要求那麼這種的可能性是存在著的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7847.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7869.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那但是人事機關怎麼避免這樣的一個不當對待那麼其實在很多的猜情就可以看得出來以大家所熟知的北紀瑜分組的個案為例那麼該員他是不是有不當的不是不當 太多的操勤的假日的加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7870.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7884.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
該機關有沒有不合理的人事流動率這個人事人員都可以透過這些事後的跡象徵兆去研判該機關是有發生哪個部門已經有不當管理的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7885.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7907.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
所以這個時候要靠人事人員而且人事人員就誠如我之前在我們院會對於決算報告對於審計長的質詢當中我也說過其實為什麼我們各公務機關人事政風主計必須中央一條邊因為這三個單位的三個部門的主管他等於是對該機關的首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7909.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7929.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
某個程度是輔助某個程度是監督要求他依法行政在人事的管理上在預算的動之上在一些相關弊案的處理上他不是由該機關首長可以一手包天有三個中央一條邊派來的人事主計政風從旁在要求這個機關首長必須依法執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7932.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7950.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
但是往往在機關尤其是市級以下的機關因為機關規模小天高黃地遠有時候機關首長跟這三位重要的幕僚的這個主管可能會有說難聽點同流合污的情況或者說這三位不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7951.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7979.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
對於機關所長有太強硬的堅持或表現因此最後一道黃火線那時候我是要求審計長必須透過各地審計室在看年度決算報告的時候就可以從這三個中央一條邊的這三個主計證封人士從這三個線索去看一下有沒有證封對於相關的檢舉並沒有處理大家很好奇難道這個主計的審計報告看得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7980.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8009.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
但是至少看得到什麼?看得到主計主任對於機關的簽核他的單據憑證有沒有那種把裝潢的費用首長的裝潢的費用報到我們執訓教室的費用來核銷的這當然看得到人事的部分也類似但是人事的部分審計他沒有辦法從預算的執行單來表達但是如果人事部門本身能夠建立透過AI的協助將我剛剛所說的機關內首長的人事要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8010.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8036.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
全部機關的管理的人事要求表現在員工的出差、加班、猜情、考機還有甚至人員的簽調、流動這些如果透過我們AI來建立一個模式的話那或許就能夠及早的看到這些警訊能夠提醒我們人事機關透過人總這邊在各機關派駐的人事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8037.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8054.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
去予以瞭解有沒有出狀況如果有這套預警系統或許北京宜的個案的悲劇就可能及早的可以來遏止我們很難想像一個中基層的公務人員在受到機關手掌這樣一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8055.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8083.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
完全不合理的對待之下他能夠承受忍受那麼久而且這個現象已經持續很長一段時間了所以我對於21案提出來就是要求說我在我們目前人事總處提出的對行政院各相關運用人工智慧的研考當中跟你們這個預算到底有沒有致用關係你們編的這個預算有沒有拿來去調訓全國各行政機關的人事人員讓他熟悉這套工具的使用方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8084.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8105.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
甚至他們回去還可以促成該機關在導入人工智慧上面幫助各機關做好他們的人事效能的運用這個部分我講的比較長那希望人事長可以就這個部分做一個說明我看到你們的預算跟你們目前我們希望各機關在人工智慧的導入上到底有沒有關聯請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8107.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8124.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
請任市長做回覆謝謝趙偉給我們這個機會說明事實上在整個人工智慧的一個推動就如同趙偉所提的我們跟數位發展部大概有一些分工他本身是資訊人員的20還有整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8127.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8135.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所有政府機關人工智能的應用的整體的規劃在他那裡那人種我們承擔的是負責整個公務人員那種認知人工智慧認知的這個訓練這個是第一個層次的問題第二個剛才委員也特別提到我們能不能透過這個資訊系統事實上我們現在有完整的資訊系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8156.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8185.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
都可以去做分析哪一個區間底假如是一年內有一些不正常的離職率偏高或者有降料的比例偏高我這個部分從系統可以產出那這個部分我們也已經要求所有的人事主管必須要去分析這樣的資料然後主動會做兩件事第一個他要跟上級長官報告有這件事情因為有些主管不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8186.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8187.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8202.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8229.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
再來一個層次的問題坦白講我們目前因為大概召委知道我們有幾十萬的公務員要去做全面性的實體的training事實上是有困難可是我們有做了一個很大的努力我們跟人力學院我們開設了很多的數位學習課程讓大家一起去在最短的時間去了解人工智慧到底是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8229.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8252.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
他帶來哪些好處他有哪些的風險我們有這樣的一個課程的一個規劃那到目前為止從9月份到目前來上課的好幾百萬的小時所以我想這一部分我們推廣而是還不錯當然我們明年還有更努力的一個成長的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8253.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8269.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我非常佩服就是昭緯剛才提的就是說人工智慧我們如何去善用善用很重要啦阿不然你有那個數據資料還是睡在那裡沒有去做分析嘛你分析完以後你採取的什麼動作採取的行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8272.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8285.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
對整個業務的推動對於整個風險的控管有做一些努力我覺得這是我們內部會去做訓練另外我這裡也特別跟召委報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8286.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8314.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們事實上過去這幾年我們有很好的傳統我們都有種子人才的訓練散佈在全國的中央跟地方我們都有資訊種子那資訊種子的部分我們明年會增加人工智慧以這些種子當核心擴散到所有因為這樣剛好符合昭偉所提的能夠快速的擴散到所有的公務通人都知道人工智慧是什麼啊我們怎麼來用 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8315.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8335.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那剛才提到了那個token的問題我想這是一個剛開始階段讓新進同仁可以在最短的時間去找到最適用的一個人事法規的一個方式當然我們目前還在規劃更精進的方式以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8337.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8365.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
好 主席那本案是不是請人事長將您剛剛說的這個精神那就本案我本席所要求的跟你們預算所之應的關聯以一個主決的方式我們去朝你一下那我就可以接受用主決的方式來要求好 謝謝昭偉好 那這部分就請我們人事總書這邊擬一個主決議的內容再給我們鍾昭偉看一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8376.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8402.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好,那麼剛剛有兩個要求改組約的部分,我們到後面的主決再來做處理。好,那現在接下來我們剛剛因為是跳到先處理21案,那接下來第11案的部分,因為第9案也是主決案已經宣佈過,剛剛最後已經同意改組決的部分,我們到主決再處理。那現在第11案因為吳趙偉不在,吳幹事長不在,那我們就不予處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8403.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8429.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那第12案因爲陳委員的部分已經同意改主決,我們在主決的部分處理。第13案是翁委員的提案,請翁委員說明。好,有關於第13案的這個部分,其實我在這裡本席是這個之前我記得是不是也曾經有質詢過人事總處這裡,就針對現在全國軍公教員工待遇制止規定裡面,它有一個規定其實挺不合理的,就針對像是軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8431.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8432.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
中央政府總預算案附屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8448.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8462.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
如果人家在救血的話是不能夠請領教育補助費的。那麼事實上在我之前曾經有質詢過退輔會。退輔會其實很支持。他們認為說其實基於就是平等原則而且這個服務軍旅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8468.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8490.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
軍人不應該因為階級而有所區別更何況這個是子女的教育補助費所以在這裡的話他們是支持可以向上修正就是不分階級只要是有子女的這個正在學校讀書的都可以去給予這個教育補助費那麼人事總處這邊看起來你們是對這個議題是有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8495.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8513.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我跟委員報告一下事實上這個議題應該不能只有從金人上校因為上校的待遇基本上會比較高然後如果這個議題要討論我們會從所有的教師還有公務人員一起一併來 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8515.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8529.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我聽不懂你的意思你是說像我們現在如果以教師來講的話他是不分階級的只要是即便是教授或特聘教授他的子女是有這個在學的話也是可以請領教育補助費所以你意思說未來要砍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8533.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8545.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
報告主席跟委員,這個軍公教人員只要是退休五之後,原來依照行政院的規定都可以領子女教育補助,是106年,中央政府總預算有一個通案決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8547.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8576 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
叫我們要檢討說基於照顧弱勢跟對國家有重大犧牲貢獻的精神去做一個檢討所以100行政院在106年就有核定軍公教的話就是兩萬兩萬五以下才可以領月退月退休金兩萬五以下才可以領目前調整到兩萬八但是軍人的話因為他的服役特性退役年齡比較早子女還在就學所以我們是改案關接身份就是中校以下都發所以說實在一百 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8576.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8588.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
106學年度這些退伍的中校以下減少的比就是說退伍救援只減少16.86%不能領但是公教減少到78到97到98%是不能領的因為公教是採定額 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8592.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8606.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
然後居然是採關接那是有考慮到居然的服役特性所以只有中校以下是可以領上校以上是不行那公教的部分是兩萬八以下才可以領其實軍公教目前都有相關的條件限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8607.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8629.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
所以我聽起來本期聽起來我覺得更不合理所以為什麼退休的軍公教這個人員那麼只要是子女有在學的應該還是可以給予他們有教育補助對不對更何況您剛剛也說了整個退休金大幅的這個這個就是大幅的減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8630.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8647.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
但過去都還有軍公教退休人員的退休金高出還可以領現在反而是下降的時候又不能夠讓這些軍公教退休人員來支領其實軍公教人員對於國家的貢獻很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8648.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8671.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
所以應該要重新檢討這個事情全部都要恢復之前都要恢復就是只要是有子女在學的都可以去請領這個教育補助費這樣才能夠吸引到有更多優秀的軍公教人員優秀的年輕人來國家服務對不對來擔任這個軍公教 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8675.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8699.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
就是說目前委員這個提案是針對軍人那我們人總在看這個問題是希望從軍公教的那個橫平性來處理就是說如果可以的話好啊那這樣的話那就是全面檢討嘛對全面檢討然後呢就是朝向就是全面恢復之前的退休軍公教人員不分階級只要是子女在學的話都應該要一律給予補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8700.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8720.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這才合理啊我跟委員報告一下啦那個不好意思我還在講一下就是你沒有去算過到底要增加多少的經費退休軍公教的人員如果他仍然有子女在學的話那人數應該也都很少我跟委員報告大概要7億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8723.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8748.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
公教非常多公教反而軍人上校子女的比較少以人數來講總需要經費一年大概要7億多所以如果說以軍人他的這個經費需求都比較少對那上校你說都上校關接他退伍如果說他的子女還在讀大學或研究所的話那代表他也很晚生這國家本來就應該照顧他們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8749.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8756.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為今天聽這個人事長這樣說我就覺得其實我們政府真的是虧待軍公教 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8760.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8785.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我覺得委員你不要說我們虧待金公教金公教是我們國家進步非常重要的基石所以我們窮盡一切努力去讓我們整個金公教不管在大義福利各方面更好首先必須要澄清這件事情那剛才委員提到的是其中一個區塊就是基因人裡面的上校因為這部分的人不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8786.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8814.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以委員這一個議題我在這裡我們同意我們會將退役的上校還有公教人員一併考慮納入整個分析我們會提書面報告麻煩委員支持不要跟我們凍結因為我們看的是前茂而不是一個區塊只有處理上校的話會造成所謂的相對不公平我們要考量的是整體的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8816.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8830.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
市長,軍公教本來它的工作性質就不一樣本席已經不只一次的跟您這個說明就是軍公教的待遇都要另立法律而不是整個綁在一起看 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8832.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8846.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
軍人的工作他們的辛苦他們對國家的付出他們的時間被綁在軍隊裡面他們的情況是比其他的公教人員是更辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8848.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8865.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
公務人員教育人員各有不同的辛苦這本來就應該要切開來看的是今天是你們這個人事總處這裡你們只是為了要方便然後從一開始就把軍公教綁在一起然後什麼知己待遇各方面退休金條條件全部都放在一起看 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8866.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8889.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
但是他明明就是不同的工作性質更何況今天退府會都同意都願意支持這個上校以上的人員他的子女教育補助費是可以補助這筆錢是從哪裡來是應該退府會要編的是嗎是是那所以我不懂的就是人總這裡為什麼一直要擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8892.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8908.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我跟委員講不是人總在擋我們是在考量事情要從金公教整體來衡量而不是單獨從哪一個區塊的人事的角度來看我們是overall在 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8909.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8929.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們講這同工同酬嘛不同工就不同酬不同的薪資資金這個標準現在軍公教就他的工作性質就是顯不相同那你們一時要把他放在一起那我也沒有看到說你們到底有沒有針對軍公教等等不同的性質然後去提出一個合理的一個待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8932.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8955.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
規劃政策報告委員只是因為我們的僱主都是政府都是國家所以你就是一視同仁報告委員在那個這是依照立法院審查106年將政府總預算團決議去救金公教通盤檢討但是我們沒有考慮到基金人的服役的特性所以我們只有我們是用關接來定所以他影響層面非常少只有減少16.86%但是對公教人我們是採取定額就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8959.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8960.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我告訴你們努力的時間啊努力太久了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8989.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9017.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這明明就是一些簡單的事情就政府總預算裡面是非常非常小的但是呢你們給予這樣的一個比較稍微好一點點的這個福利待遇只是讓比較多的人會認為說哦未來來這個就是未來來當這個軍公教那總還是可以以在享受比較多一點的福利而且到倒退休了耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9023.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9031.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
簡單來說我認為說人事長這個你們在檢討軍公教自己待遇的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9032.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9061.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
你們本來就應該積極的做從上個會期我也就提出了這個案子然後剛剛黃國昌委員倒是提醒我了本來是說你們年底之前就要提出來軍公教待遇的法制化的問題然後我那時候我有建議說是軍公教都要分開來定定因為依照你們現在不同的這個這個什麼公務人員教育人員還有軍事人員的條例他本來就是待遇就是要另一法律定制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9062.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9090.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
對你們要從你們要積極的檢討而不是一直拖一直拖拖到現在12月了然後在談到預算的時候然後你們又在說我會努力我會努力努力了很久了現在你們行政機關啊我不好講這是現在行政機關怠惰法案不積極提出結果變成我們立法委員我們速度都比你們快然後我們提出來法案之後呢又說我們什麼又違法又違憲不跟你們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9093.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9122.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
沒有道理我說真的這個案子我堅持啦就凍結一百萬然後等到你們這個這個你們當然這個你們說要重新檢討軍公教的這個待遇知己條例然後對於這個退休的軍公教人員部分一併檢討也可以或者是說是你們就乾脆現在就是先承諾要改善上校階以上的因為這是比例非常少啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9123.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9152.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我這裡一定要跟委員講要處理這個事情有些是絕對公平跟相對公平的問題我們不可能只有處理上校如果上校的問題要處理我們退休的公教人員因為剛才委員一直很重視金公教金公教這是國家很重要進步的一個基石所以要考量這個事情我們全部一起考量不會只有考慮上校這是我們行政院的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9153.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9177.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好吧那你們就一併考量吧就還是凍結一百萬委員報告委員那個文字上可不可以有一些修正因為他不是不是在軍公教待遇資給要點的規定他是行政院106年的一個願函在待遇資給要點裡面是沒有提到那個退休五軍公教人員的部分所以修訂全國軍公教待遇資給要點的規定這個這個文字可能要刪除因為他規定不是在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9178.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9179.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這是文字上的修正。 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9197.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9226.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那這個部分就是說委員的提案...通案檢討,檢討是說要你們往上提升,我現在一直要你們往上提升,而不是往下砍啊。好不好,那個處長,你把那個函發給大家看一下好不好,因為你們還沒有到其他委員有意見,沒辦法表達。因為你已經把意見非常表達清楚,那因為你的案子比較多齁,你還有26案,27、29到31,要不要主案一併先提出來,那他們可以整體的來做回應,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9227.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9232.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那實際上等他們把那個表那個函拿出來我們先處理第26案好那其實從26案到31案其實都是針對人事總處就這個資訊設備維運費用等等的經費的編列簡單來說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9251.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9272.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他們在經費編列上面也沒有依據行政院主計總處所說的資訊服務委外經費的估算原則原則上要不可以高於前一個年度為原則而且呢就整個資訊服務委外經費通常來說它的維運經費大概製造在 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9273.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9297.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
與他原來的系統建制費用大概5%到15%的這樣的一個區間也就是說你一開始的系統建制的費用高那個是合理的但是之後的維運費用不應該是跟原來建制費用的這個經費是一致的或是非常接近他的維運費大概就是在原來的費用大概5%到15% |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9300.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9313.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
中間是比較合理的這些我都有去問過所以就現在人事總處他現在編的這些經費坦白說都過高都過高那麼這次本席在這幾個案子裡面其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9316.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9332.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
都有發現這樣的問題所以就提出大概原則上就是3減1成的預算大概就以3減1成的預算為原則那麼從26案到31案應該都是秉持這樣的原則所以那26案到27以及29到31都是同一個屬性那是不是請任總這邊機關代表做統一的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9345.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9354.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
主席各位委員好那有關那個翁委員的提案我這邊先做一下說明就是說我們完全是會依照那個主計從處資訊的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9356.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9380.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
的那個估算原則來進行那我們這邊在26案跟27案這邊要說一個說明這個是我們的那個這個不是軟體的部分這個是我們因為我們有負責全國人事單位每天的人事系統的運作有8000多個機關那這是我們人事雲端資料中心他的那個主機設備還有軟體的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9383.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9412.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
等等的這個license的部分所以這兩個部分其實這個都沒有經過評選這個我們大部分都是會核實的會透過那個國家那個共同供應契約然後如實的去做那因為這幾年主要是在那個資安的要求的部分因為我們是A級的而且保有那個人事資料所以在那個資安的部分他有很多需要去增防比如說我們要增加那些nreport去預先去 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9413.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9429.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
知道說有沒有被攻擊等等所以在這個26跟27這個部分主要就是在治安的部分還有這近幾年來我們要預測說他有沒有被那個攻擊的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9430.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9442.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
案的部分呢這個是我們服務型政府2.0的計劃那事實上剛可能委員會有一點點誤會就是說我們並沒有高出前一年的而是說我們的案子因為我們這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9444.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9472.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
人力沒有那麼多所以我們會把相似我們會經過我們內部先規劃把同樣的案子可以在同一個系統下去開發發展的我們不要再擴張不要說為了每一個功能就開發一個系統平台我們會再原有的去徵修然後讓他更更適合用那如果是不符合的我們就會把它下架所以我們是務實的在規劃所以並沒有是並不是可是很難讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9473.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9500.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
外面理解因為我們是要做一個行政的檢測那個行政的成本所以我們其實都有符合就是說在那個維護的部分都是如果是舊的系統其實我們都是低於10%以下的維護會是這樣進行只是說每一個專案是評選案的話它裡面的系統有些是徵修的有些就是原先的系統延續嘛因為我們系統是必須要延續比如說我們現在提供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9500.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9512.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
全國公務員這個買data的服務那裡面有很多都增加那個線上的比如說健檢的那我們第一年可能是只是給他看他健檢的項目那第二年我們就會讓他在線上去提出他個人的健檢的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9516.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9542.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
提出的他的申請類似這樣子的互動所以每一年越做越深然後系統就會越做越完善所以我們的服務是原先有人事機構然後現在是增加到全國公人員所以這個部分會比較很難以讓委員來理解那事實上我們這個我們的資訊系統都是百需求那我們每年呢也會收集各個人事單位的需要去徵兇那每年都有超過200件以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9546.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9547.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
建議案,所以請委員可以支持我們,我們這邊的經費估算是滿務實的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9554.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9583.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好那個做個整理啦齁那跟翁委員說明一下因為剛剛你是26、27、29、30、31五個案那麼剛剛機關代表意思是說這都是資訊相關預算那是懇請免於檢列那如果要凍結的話有一個額數那是不是機關代表是不是希望說免於檢列但是有凍結的額數的想法還是翁委員這邊可以同意這五個案子是免於檢列但是以凍結的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9585.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9607.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
因為他本來就編得過高啦然後基於經費的尊潔原則那再加上這個你們都是不斷的擴充擴充一擴充到哪裡也不曉得然後計劃書上面也沒有看得很清楚到底在每個項目裡面是跟之前的到底有差別在哪裡擴充了一些什麼內容但我覺得這些都要清楚的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9609.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9618.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
對然後我有去詢問了一些有關於這個資訊廠商還有這個資訊領域方面的教授他們也認為說你們如果說都是用的這個資訊維護費為運之名然後但是編列的經費確實是不合理高於一般民間蠻多的那麼在這樣的一個情況之下我認為說還是要簡列可是呢簡列你如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9638.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9649.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
其實一層也很少只是把你們去年就是今年增編的減少而已耶所以翁媛媛的意思是說我們這五個案子檢列一個金額是不是這意思我的意思是說應該維持我原來寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9666.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9683.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我跟翁委員報告非常佩服翁委員對整個我們資訊預算花很多時間去了解甚至也請教一些專家因為我本身資訊專業的我必須要說明三件事情第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9685.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9701.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們現在人種很多的系統是處理分散在全國8000多個機關本來他們各自獨立開發維護的我們慢慢收納所以我們會有新的信任需求這是第一個第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9702.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9721.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這幾年資安事件頻傳所以我們一直發很大的effort是在資訊安全的強化資訊安全的強化大家也知道資訊安全的投資事實上是花很多錢可是它的效益就是讓事情不要發生第三件事情我這裡也要報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9722.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9736.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
說真的這幾年資訊人才包含私部門的你這些人才不好找他們的待遇都拉上來那我們如果預算不朝一個合理的比例提升的話坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9737.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9751.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這些廠商沒有辦法找到Qualified的人來提供優質的服務給政府機關即這三個理由拜託委員真的不要看因為我們已經用最少的預算在違應我們政府的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9753.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9770.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
如果委員你真的執意要做這件事情坦白講我們人種明年的整個資金系統的維運非常辛苦坦白講為什麼這些資金系統我們資訊廠商我們都要去拜託他來幫我們做因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9772.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9790.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
理順都沒理順嘛我一定要拜託他來不然你換一家廠商他要重新再設備再投資我覺得現在以目前國內的資訊人力還有治安人力的坦白講沒有新的廠商他願意承接新的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9792.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9815.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這裡那個我擦一下不好意思所以我就跟人事長我跟速發部也講過速發部編了那麼多的高約併顧的缺但是為什麼用沒有人來禁用的很少因為資訊行業在目前社會它是社會上各行業中薪資算相當高的我們的速發部重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9816.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9839.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
拜託我們公務人員薪酬的那個框架用約聘僱的方式要來禁用薪水也變得很高也被我們立法院審議預算有質疑但是儘管如此還是招不到人招不太多人那可見目前我們政府機關的用人的薪資框架縱使是用約聘僱人員、聘用人員都很難追得上民間的薪資水準在這種情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9840.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9868.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我問我們行政機關不去改善你沒有辦法自己聘用資訊人員你就勢必要委託其他資訊公司來幫你做服務那他的服務他也要花錢去請這些高薪的資訊人員來幫你服務那這個情況看起來他的薪資他的服務費用當然會隨著這些人員的平均薪資節節上升嘛大概我聽起來您的意思就是這樣子說我們自己沒有人所以我們要外面聘那外面聘的人為什麼這個服務費用一直上升因為薪資一直在追 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9869.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9894.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那所以終究來思考到底我們人總有沒有花一個去努力去突破這個問題你與其每年每年用業務會的方式委外給外面的資訊公司來幫你做服務很多安全你還不能完全掌控但是如果你能夠自己突破這個薪酬的框架能夠花出高的薪水聘到我們政府專業要用的資訊人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9896.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9915.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
等同你要發給委外廠商的錢拿來用薪水的方式發給我們自己聘用的治安人員這個才能是長久之計啦但是你們過去一直覺得受限於法定框架沒有辦法突破那造成的結果我們出得起這麼我們出得起相較的錢你怎麼找得到老虎跟獅子 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9916.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9943.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們人管常常說的你只出了你香蕉的錢怎麼找到老虎跟獅子那外面老虎是在幫你打仗你當然要給他牛肉啊那沒有牛肉牛肉價格一年一年提高這樣整體來看你與其是要每年去支付這麼很高的牛肉的費用還是你要考慮你的薪資結構可以調整我是先插一個話幫不好意思翁委員我是說這個問人事總處要去面對啦難怪我們委員一直覺得說你們為什麼每年的資訊服務費用都節約上升因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9944.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9958.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
外界行情、諮詢人員的行情越來越高啊那既然這樣子為什麼不自己想辦法突破我們的薪資結構聘請我們專屬的諮詢人員來為我們公務機關服務這個部分人總要思考一下那其他委員有沒有要詢問的還是我們請公務委員繼續,好請 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9959.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9982.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我要講就是因為我們這裡我有去統計你們這些年來所做的這個資訊各個平台的資訊專案然後包含系統擴充專案等等就看起來你們的廠商都集中在特定的業者身上而且經費都非常高啊簡單來說其實透過你們一個計畫就可以去幫一家資訊就可以去養一家資訊公司了 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9987.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10016.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
就像我講的你如果說只是優化或是擴充它不可能會跟你原來的一開始建制的系統的金額是相當的更何況這已經是長年編列我們現在也不過只是簡列一層而已是將你們今年提高的那一層做一些刪減仍然是維持可能在113年的水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10018.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10027.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
再說我還要講一個重點就是到底擴充了什麼優化了什麼怎麼每一年看起來都是同樣今天也沒有看到說實際上你們優化擴充的項目內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10032.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10050.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這不能講說因為項目太多了所以就無法列舉這個其實都很抽象的你到底被攻擊了多少次什麼樣的類型是最容易被攻擊的或是需要改善的這要有個清楚的列表對這基本上我們也發現現在政府機關的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10052.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10073.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
第一個花在媒體業務宣導費的部分金額也很高但是你看不出來還有什麼KPI也不是很清楚它的效果效能到底這個宣傳的成效如何也不清楚另外一個部分就是發現在做資訊設備的優化擴充項目也是不清不楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10075.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10097.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我認為這是要整個檢討了先從人種這邊開始先做示範好好的把它整理出來這樣我們才知道說到底現在我們的這個全國的這些資訊系統項目改善了些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10098.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10112.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我真的謝謝謝謝那個委員給我們很完整的一個資訊第一個我必須要提的就是可能我們在整理資料所以這幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10114.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10137.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這幾週我們一直安排時間想去拜會翁委員就是因為有些細項的東西我們必須要去跟委員當面報告因為委員比較忙然後第二個事情就是說我們在僱用承商的過程中每年大概平均每兩年都會review一次如果不qualify我們就換掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10138.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10154.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
到目前為止已經有4家不扣留來的廠商我們就換掉了因為他的service level agreement服務的品質沒有辦法符合我們需求我們就換不是說你賭投了啦你也可以做幾次啦沒有這回事過去這段期間我們已經有換了4家廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10156.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10184.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
然後現在留下來的是在服務我們除了標準的服務要符合我們的需求就是我們有一個叫SLAService Level Agreement一定要符合我們的標準如果不符合的話我們也是會把這家廠商換掉所以在這樣的一個基準有一個很嚴謹的標準底下所以這些廠商可以留下來繼續幫我們服務的大概服務品質都會符合那剛才中召委提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10186.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10190.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們這兩年事實上在這些資訊人員的待遇事實上有往上不是比較緊張而已,我們之前有變成假髮,古髮是沒有啦,但是假髮應該是有啦,所以我們很多不管是治安的還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10202.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10202.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10218.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10235.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我這邊還要再講那個因為吳委員這邊有要表示意見喔好好沒有再好那繼續好了我其實我是有做功課的你們剛剛講說這個廠商集中的問題我現在清楚跟你們講好幾個系統專案我們統計10年大概就是零群電腦、開發科技、全頂資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10242.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10260.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
還有支通電等等這幾家都是承包你們大概10年以上對如果他們做得好OK但是每一年的承包的金額都是很高不斷的只是系統的擴充優化那為什麼要花這麼多的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10262.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10273.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我認為說這個部分你們真的是要好好寫份報告了為什麼這些你們現在開發的系統十年來都是給同一家公司而且價格沒有減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10275.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10294.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
越編越高我寫歐委員說的啊我們會寫個書篇報告給委員我說明我先做一個處理啦歐委員這五個案子都跟資訊系統有關事實上在前一幕他也是針對資訊系統的部分也是表達意見那我剛剛會請你們調一些資料出來不過那個是屬於聯合辦公大樓的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10295.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10315.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那這個部分是不是這樣子我們先暫保留那剛剛委員有點到了幾個資訊服務廠商那過去他們10年內他們曾經接受過哪些案子的服務我想你們未來的書面報告一定要包含那是不是有一個簡單的待會可以提出來的整理一下讓其他委員知道一下翁委員的資料是翁委員所知拿到的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10316.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10345.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那我是說這個部分因為翁委員剛剛在前一幕因為前一幕的時候你有提到資訊系統那我是覺得這些基本的資訊是不是讓我們委員有個掌握我們會一起參與討論那不然的話這五個提案你再談我們覺得原則上你講的有那個道理但是該怎麼處理現在機關代表人長是希望說用一個書面報告但是要涵蓋什麼內容我這就要好好處理好不好那翁委員完再 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10347.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10368.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這樣好了我具體的建議啦就是凍結的部分我全都希望就凍結到時候看你們報告那簡列的部分你們覺得說我之前簡列的10%過高那麼就是同解5%那也讓你們就是在下年度在執行相關經費的時候可以更加 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10370.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10384.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
審慎。然後該花則花,不該花的話就要節省。現在政府的預算各方面的經費支出都要節省,這樣可以嗎?然後凍結的部分就等到你們報告提出來,沒有問題的話那就解凍。那個吳委員請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10389.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10407.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝有看到翁委員所提的好幾個案子都是聚焦在這個資訊相關的採購包括軟體包括硬體那我的觀點是這樣啦分享一下就是說政府部門對於各項採購他必然有幾個要件第一個編了一個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10409.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10436.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
第2個呢依據你的預算然後你要寫一個標規嗎你到底是要採購什麼要求廠商要達到什麼樣子的服務什麼樣的內容然後會寫出這個標規嗎然後標規之後就公開上網招標所以招標來的就是大家就是要尋公開的原則那問委員一直覺得為什麼都是這幾家除非是涉及 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10438.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10453.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我不曉得是不是有什麼我委員要講的是有什麼舞弊嗎我不知道但我說這個程序上就是這樣預算有多少然後寫一個合理的標規那標規的重點是要達到什麼樣子的服務然後去做公開採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10455.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10466.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
對不對然後採購之後如果執行上確實有一些不達標準的你們本來就要依合約去究責去要求嗎這是一個政府對於任何的採購簡單的ABC |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10470.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10490.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那尊重各個委員的監督的權責那我覺得因為翁委員有請你們要寫報告我只是聽了一段時間我覺得對於整個內容翁委員所提的我聽到的是你們做不好都是這些廠商優化在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10491.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10508.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我覺得比較抽象那你們趕快去拜訪翁委員好那翁委員也應當要很具體的提出您認為他們哪裡哪個項目做不好哪個項目該做而沒做哪個項目根本不需要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10509.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10537.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我想我們對於公部門的任何的預算監督都是這樣否則在一個抽象的邏輯裡面去做抽象的陳述然後要你們提出抽象的答案寫出抽象的報告我也不知道你們怎麼寫所以趕快去拜訪翁委員也許翁委員私下會告訴你們他關切的點在哪裡這樣才能夠解決問題啦否則光一個做不好優化這個東西我也不知道怎麼改善嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10539.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10565.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好那這個東西我們當然未來我們尊重提案的委員我也很期待看到你們相對具體的對於內容的精進這樣對於監督我們想才是更正面的事情我是提出這樣子的一個補充好那先我們報告那翁委員跟吳委員因為吳委員有提出一個想法那翁委員這個案子這五六案我們是不是有兩個處理方式翁委員先暫時停下先等一下我要先回復一下剛剛吳士堯委員這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10567.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10591.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
他不了解這個狀況,其實我辦公室的同仁已經跟人事總處這裡有進行過溝通。對,可是他們跟我回報的,我認為仍然是不清不楚。我現在所講的並不是抽象,並不是具體。如果說是有這個無私要委員,你認真去看我所寫的提案你就會知道。我每一下我都計算得非常的清楚的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10592.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10613.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
所以並不是說是我給這個人總有一個不合理的要求是他們自己說這個項目太多沒有辦法列舉嗎如果是這樣的話就麻煩你每一個項目你都平台你們到底做什麼你們這幾年做了些什麼優化了什麼從你們標案到最後的這個執行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10616.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10619.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我跟委員報告我們這一份資料已經送到委員辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10644.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10653.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
可能的話就是麻煩委員給我一個時間我親自去報告啦我自己去報告啦有幾頁20幾頁我們現場有三位委員除了翁委員之外你們是一兩位委員還有陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10664.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10691.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這樣好了 那個主席這邊建議委員會兩個處理方式啦一個就是翁委員這第13案以及第26、27還有29、30、31這6個案子齁我們有一個方式有一個是暫保留但是呢我們如果現在今天12點之前有辦法你們因為他有的要檢列有的要保留嘛有的要凍結嘛那你們機關代表是不是你們覺得檢列的部分你們多少可以承受 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10692.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10710.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
動輸的部分你們覺得多少不會影響到明年度的預算執行?你們先有個斟酌,因為這個金額加起來是一筆數字,我建議你們先衡量一下。另外一個方式就是剛剛吳委員說的,這6個案種就保留,保留之後我們在送院會協商之前, |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10711.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10725.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
如果說人總可以跟翁委員能夠做了報告之後取得了一個共識那我們就按照那個時候翁委員的同意的情況之下去處理這是兩種方式一個是暫保留你們現在趕快算一下翁委員所提出的減業數 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10728.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10753.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
動結數你們情況哪些可以承受那另外一個就是等到我們今天保留那你們再去拜訪翁委員說明這兩個方式啦那你們已經在印資料了嘛那不然我就先以暫保的方式讓他們資料送來那如果真的人事長很希望能夠再爭取跟翁委員說明的時間那到時候我們把這幾個案子就保留然後呢在院會之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10753.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10768.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
因為協商之前,人事長去跟翁委員做說明,這樣可以嗎?好,我們先暫保,因為呢,我們第二幕還有很多案子啦,翁委員可不可以?欸,那這樣的話,我可能,我們待會還是就現場協商一下。欸,我了解,他們讓他們算一下。然後,對,算一下。好,讓他們算一下。剪裂數跟凍結數。所以我這可以整個併案嗎?那可可以,你的部分都可以整個併,那就是說剪裂數跟三減數齁,剪裂數跟凍結數。因為你的凍結的部分,是要書面報告時的凍資嘛,對不對?對。所以這個部分我們讓機關代表去算一下。齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10783.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10797.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我們趕快的把因為前面還有那個第一幕的部分因為吳衛允也到了剛剛第一幕我們也是暫保留那我們很快的看一下那麼我們剛剛已經進行到13案那麼16案的部分我同意改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10800.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10820.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
事項你們已經來報告過了那時候因為還沒有看到主決議我就沒有簽字那第21案那已經剛剛說改為主決議了第22案我們就不予處理第24案也是一樣上次有報告但是我沒拿到書面所以請改為主決議的書面趕快提供第25案不予處理那第26、27那麼剛剛已經說暫保留了第28案剛剛有處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10828.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10857.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
二十八案已經改為主決議了那麼以上呢這第二幕的部分改為主決議的部分我們就一項一項回過頭來開始做確認先從好那我再回處理好那麼現在我們先從主決議第九案開始那麼主決議內容林委員的部分請問機關代表可以接受嗎主決議就不用再請問同意了 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10858.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10875.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那第9案改為主決議已簽字了第10案改為主決議已簽字了第12案陳俊宇委員的也改成主決議也簽字了是這樣嗎陳委員第14案也改為主決議也簽字了第15案也併14案還有17案 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10877.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10904.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
18案、19案都並14案改為主決議,同意了。那麼第23案陳委員的部分也同意改主決議了。好,那第二幕除了暫保留的部分,我們現在回過來看第一幕。那第一幕呢,因為剛剛暫保留的時候呢,有吳委員跟翁委員的兩、有三個提案在場。那是不是請那個吳委員,你在第一幕的部分、第二案的部分,你有提出凍結的要求,您是不是做一個說明? |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10907.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10937.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那個11案是我之前也一直在關心那就是我們的心理健康價的部分那如何在還沒有心理健康價之前我們的所有的EAP的方案都要到位那後來總統在健康台灣的這個專案裡頭也已經要求很具體的那全序部也接到這個訊息所以我想人事總處也不用再每次回答我都千篇一律是卡在全序部 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10937.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10961.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好那現在考試院全序部都對於要來落實公務同仁的心理健康價有一定的共識所以就是要知道你們後續什麼時候怎麼樣來規劃大概是這樣子的一個要求那因為新的年度我想明年好像還是那個總長你要不要簡單人事長要不要跟我說一下你們的規劃的期程大概是什麼我再用一點點時間好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10966.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10990.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個部分因為在總統宣誓之後我已經跟那個司部長有溝通過了他們會盡快針對那個心理健康家的一些規劃進行整個相關法規的一個作業就是要往這方向推進那有沒有一個可能的時間的落點 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10994.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10997.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我相信下個會期應該要有機會把它那個來實現吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11017.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11035.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好,那我們在這裡做成記錄好不好,我11案等下也改組決議啦齁,但是就是下...11案已經那個不予處理了,就是第二案我講11案啦第二案第二案第二案,我現在在講11對,因為...好,沒關係,沒有,我現在在講第11,好,沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11038.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11060.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
下會期提出我們的心理健康價你們跟全序部共同研議的一個做法好不好那下會期我就等你們的報告喔好不好那我11案我後面有病有沒有那個委員剛剛我們11案的時候不可以處理我後面也有好我3、4案也有好沒問題謝謝那第2案是改組決議是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11062.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11064.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11078.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11099.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
第三案資訊的部分因為剛剛翁委員在後面的五個案子也都是資訊那剛剛我們都是暫保留看有沒有書面給翁委員或者說我們這幾案都保留在院會協商之前再去跟翁委員做說明另外翁委員這邊還有一個是第四案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11102.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11115.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
第四案的部分就是說那個水電啊還有那個機關的分攤的設備等等對那我知道我說請他們去找那些資料嘛那這樣好不好 崩委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11116.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11141.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
因為第4案的部分剛我們聽了之後包括黃總也認為說這個其實是聯合辦公大樓他們4個還是5個部會分攤的部分那希望他們提一個完整的書面報告那是不是這樣子第4案的部分我們就以他們提供這些內容來作為一個處理方式就是因為他們4、5個部會共同分攤的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11144.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11159.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
好那第三案的部分你的第三部分呢我們剛剛就說了嘛第三案跟你後面五個案子都是資訊設備嘛那可不可以我知道我們另外分別處理我們會分別處理那我們這樣的第一幕就可以先把它完成了就是那個五委員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11160.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11182.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他是第二案他是改組決議那如果您第四案也可以改書面報告那我們就可以來把第一幕的部分做個處理那第三 你的第三案是資訊設備那第三案的資訊設備在第一幕的部分跟第二幕的資訊設備我們可以用一個一致性的處理方式那這樣子大概我們第一幕跟第二幕就都有經過處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11183.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11208.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這樣好了,因為第四案的部分會議是要看整個整體的報告嘛,就看管理委員會這裡是怎麼列,但是確實是編得太高了啦。那我的想法是說,要不然就是,簡列金額就酌減,那但是凍結還是要凍。然後請你們再提,就是等到報告看,提出來之後呢再來看。那個,我也想齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11209.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11232.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
要不要左減就減了啦那他們報告照題但就不要動因為那個這兩件事情因為你同時處理喔又是減又是動我們等一下處理兩次啊你看看是要左減然後還是提個書面報告不然就是一個凍結那提書面報告機關代表你們看呢因為我是希望翁委員可以接受好那就內班就減嘛就不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11233.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11256.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
割減多少金額呢?你們覺得可以割減多少?報告委員,沒辦法,因為幾個機關為了這些錢,我們花很多時間在那裡精算,真的是...我沒有看到你們報告啊。那個資料...因為您是真的成長很多啦。什麼時候資料可以送過去?那... |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11263.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11276.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們盡快把那個資料,因為所有資料都在管理小組那裡,我們會去跟他要一個咖啡送到委員那裡,因為這樣算上的差不多10萬、15萬的空間,很少的啦,因為大家為了討論那些事,大家也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11284.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11305.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
因為每一個人的口袋的預算都很緊後來等於就是說也考慮到大院會通過的預算增加太多不可能所以所有的項目事實上大家都很核實在評估我覺得現在的問題就是這些剛才報告的三個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11307.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11329.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
一個是水電費的部分嘛一個是那個設備改善嘛一個是管委會因為要請人家的人事費也會增加幾%嘛3%這樣大概有幾個顧面我們會整理盡快12點以前有沒有可能送過來就是跟管委會那裡12點以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11332.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11360.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
還是翁委員那個我跟委員會報告一下聽起來因為剛剛講到的他們本來是一包一包裡面包括大樓的管理人員包括水電支出包括這個設備的更新那其中呢這個水電的部分是翁委員過去在預算場都很在意的那是不是除了水電之外其他的要分攤的管理人員跟設備更新的部分你們譬如說左減個五萬塊那其他水電的部分我們並通案處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11361.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11376.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
因為水電的部分那個是不是只有你們遇到整個聯合辦公大樓的水電有沒有高估這個都可以做通案處理那我們等於是第4案的部分我們就註記一下除水電外通案處理外我們其他部分那麼減列5萬減列5萬那就不用減了啦因為那個是設備那個是設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11384.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11400.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
還是你要因為水電的部分是您剛剛發言所關切的嘛那設備的分攤這個那個是拿出來報帳是白紙黑字的那除非這四個部會通通把他們的這個設備更新的部分拿出來檢討我這樣我那我這樣我動解我還是要保留然後檢驗的部分的話檢5萬真的是叫我就不要檢了啊對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11414.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11436.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
至少減個五十萬,這邊五十萬,然後凍減五十萬,然後看他報告好不好?就這樣減五十萬沒辦法,因為管理委員會是大家合意制,針對每一個項目大家很精算過的。我如果在這邊少五十萬,如果是這一個科目是單獨我人總內部在使用的,我們比較有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11437.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11447.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
空間去處理現在是管委會他一個公視算下來大家按照你的坪數多少分配多少也是一個固定的啦那如果沒有的話就保留吧保留送鞋商就是就我就就就都不用動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11468.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11478.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
又保留啦保留好 那麼我們等於就是第四案啦那資訊的部分呢要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11479.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11504.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
因為當中要變成說我們第一幕的有兩個部分第二案是屬於資訊第四案是屬於水電及其他設備更新那這兩個如果都保留那就會處理上怎樣呢資訊的部分並同翁委員的在第二幕的五個案就通通是以資訊的方式由人總去跟翁委員報告如果能在院會協商前取得決定那這幾個案子就做那樣的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11506.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11518.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那這是一個處理方式啦那水電的部分那也是並我們院會協商的時候的水電的部分並同處理那翁委員覺得這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11521.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11544.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對,那就是水電,因為你的第三案是資訊嘛,第四案是水電及其他嘛,那這兩個分別,第三案的資訊是救您的部分,另外第二幕還有五個案子,那個部分就任總去跟您做說明,看你的意思。那第四案的部分因為是水電是通案,那個部分就看院會協商水電的部分怎麼處理,您覺得怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11545.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11547.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
第一幕的第三案跟第四案我們就保留啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11571.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11595.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
第三案第一案保留那這樣第一幕就把它處理掉了因為第二案已經改組決議了好那接下來第二幕的部分呢我們剛剛有還有第13案第13案的話就是13案的部分因為他送來一個函這剛剛拿到了就是剛剛有提到人事總處說這個函是立法院的決議還是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11598.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11598.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
是同意10萬嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11623.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11634.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我同意,沒有,我說10萬沒有效果,所以還是維持100萬,他們才會繼續的提出。那金管代表您,因為,其實我看...那也是,只要他們盡早提出就解凍啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11636.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11662.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
對,否則拖太久,我們已經等了一年了耶!從2月到12月,現在已經12月了。委員可不可以動50萬,動一半就好。剛剛有跟委員說明,就是現在在補充一個...也包含黃國昌委員也很在意啊!這是,那個,我們就有在補充那個,就是那個願函的部分,它不是定在那個...願函是願函,檢討是檢討嘛!對,對,對,我們會檢討,我們會檢討。是啊,所以已經是整個檢討要提出來啊!那那個修訂,那個待遇資格要點那個文字可能要刪除,我們就檢討這個願函好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11664.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11676.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
還有一併連那個待遇自己條例一起檢討．那個部分那個黃國昌委員有說我們12月底送來他就不動不散這樣子我們12月底會送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11679.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11683.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
報告委員那個待遇資給要點是規定現職人員不規定退休人員所以如果要檢討退休人員一定是檢討那個函所以我們是建議那個那個修正那個待遇資給要點那個文字可以用那個願函來替代 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11704.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11719.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
因為待遇支給要點沒有規範退休的軍公教人員他規定都是現職人員那退休的部分呢都是在怨函處理沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有我記得是在軍人退職條例裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11728.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11748.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個項目一直以來都是從民國67年以來都是願函在規範的只是106年有依照立法院的決議去做一個檢討我現在就是說你要法律依據法律裡面的要去檢討那個法律的規定檢討願函的規定那你們自己趕快就檢討就是重新頒布就好了啊我們會檢討這個我們就來檢討這個願函 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11751.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11781.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
董委員因為您的第13案我看他這裡的預算數年度預算數215萬5000一般來講我們審預算的時候大概都是動一層因為你的目的是要他去提一個書面報告金童又死的動資那是不是因為我們今天也花了很多時間在相關的議案的討論是不是我們第13案的部分你說215萬的預算你要動100萬他還沒有動資之前他大概後半年就不用做事情了 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11781.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11782.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
提出面報告後取得動之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11792.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11815.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好,那麼接下來那個2627還有29到31這五個案子你們是不是機關代表有沒有一個簡列數跟凍結數你們可以接受的部分可以承受的部分你們可以拿來討論一下包括這個部分我剛才請同仁精算過可以3減150萬凍300萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11823.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11849.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
一百五十萬對動三百萬我本來這邊的檢列的話應該是有差不多八百萬、九百萬是嗎?我們真的很誠懇的拜託委員支持應該要說多少?檢列三百?檢列一百五、動三百那是我原來所提的只有一成一成都不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11850.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11856.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
是因為喔,我們我跟你講,我這裡很誠懇跟委員報告紮紮實實,因為我們要經得起各界去檢視這樣的一個數據好,那這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11872.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11895.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
剪裂150 動300這樣剪裂150嗎?今年喔可是你們的報告沒有讓我看好的話我下一年我肯定是會大看所以基於這次相信人事長您的承諾然後之後麻煩把這個報告書要寫完整交給我然後我剪300 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11897.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11921.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
因為凍結的部分大概跟他這五個案的規模三千萬的十分之一差不多那檢列部分一百五是不是我是不好意思這個不太就是因為其實這都是資訊預算其實我懇請那個翁委員再想一下因為你的第三案你的第三案的那個資訊預算總金額也不過是兩百四十一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11923.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11948.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那我是覺得這個併在這裡面簡列150動300那這第一幕跟第二幕的資訊預算就這樣來處理啦好不好你說第三幕嗎不是因為我們第一幕喔第一幕的你的第三案是資訊設備那現在第二幕呢你這五個案也是資訊設備那其實這第二幕的這五個案的資訊設備呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11950.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11977.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
大概規模3000萬你已經動了300萬這個大概跟一般我們在處理預算的時候相當啦那因為你的第一幕的第三案他的經費規模也不過200多而已那是不是您可以既然是資訊設備你第二幕的部分可以這樣處理了是不是說那個那個第三案第一幕的第三部分也是動個額數那就可以讓這些資訊設備就一起來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11980.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12005.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那如果這樣的話是剪裂10萬然後動20嗎?剪了啦,就動20啦。好,動20啦。那我們對不起倒車回去第一幕的第三案我們就動20那第二幕是資訊設備是剪裂150動300那因為還有那個第八案的部分那因為本來暫保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12007.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12023.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
好,並提出書面報告會使得動之,那現在你要講是第8案嗎?我主席是陳立委主任,就是剛才那個翁委員那個5案,第5案那個檢列150萬部分是不是科目自行調整?我會處理,您放心。 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12024.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12050.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那另外呢,我們剛剛第一半暫保留,那我想因為這個天皇委員不在,那我們就不予處理。那我們這樣子呢,也很順利的可以在12點之前,我就不用處理延長會議時間了。是不是我們把全部從前面再run一遍。那麼,我們要以主案主案的,從那我們就把主決議的部分呢,一式run一遍。好不好,我們很快的,會議時間如果來得及,我們就處理到 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12052.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12077.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這裡做個宣告啦,我們就上午會議進行至議程所列事項均處理完畢為止。好,那我們就開始從主決議的部分開始,從第幾案?還沒有,還有哪一案?剛剛都說不予處理啦,第二、二都不處理啦。那第八案呢?我說錯了,我們剛剛說的是第20案啦,就不予處理啦。對對對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12082.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12084.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12109.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12114.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
第11、20、22、25不予處理改為主決議90、12、14並15、17、18、19以及16、21、23、24、28改為主決議第5案保留送協商除以上個案外本目合併檢列150萬動節300萬第6案動節1000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12133.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12141.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那麼當然已經宣讀過那個動資條件了我就不再贅述第七、第八案凍結1100萬那麼向委員會提出書面報告時的動資那麼針對各凍結各案的要求依委員會決議那我們剛剛的提書面報告後經同意後時的動資 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12160.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12186.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好 那麼這是第二幕的部分 那第一幕的部分呢我先讀了齁 好 那接下來我們處理組決議主席你剛剛沒有講科目進行調整欸好 那麼以上第二幕的科目進行調整來 那個中委員剛剛那個黃國昌委員他是說第二十案是暫保留不是不予處理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12189.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12196.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
中委員您是不是可以再重複一下您剛剛說的第20案是怎麼樣?所以第20案是保留喔?那現在在場委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12215.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12225.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
因為我想就尊重那個黃國昌委員的剛剛的建議因為他是抓他提案嘛他是認為說這案子要保留保留送協商嗎對保留送協商好那我們就保留送協商好好那麼接下來我們就進行主決議的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12234.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12237.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
黃委員他委託我請我幫他重申他剛剛的意思啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12261.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12275.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
不過翁委員23你沒有連署阿對啊一般的程序是這樣就說你替他的話是你要當案不是你要成為當然的我知道我知道因為我剛剛好翁委員我跟你說明一下因為齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12287.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12312.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
因為剛剛我們在處理暫保留的時候都是以在場委員的部分處理啦包括你也在場處理諮詢預算嘛所以有幾個暫保要處理那因為剛剛在回到暫保的時候我才發現說欸為什麼剛剛我是說不予處理因為提供人不在像我剛剛不在我的案子不處理我也就就是照這樣因為五委員第四天是不予處理啊對啊所以五委員以後你要替其他委員那你要連署他的案子這真的是一般就是這是基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12315.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12339.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我認為說如果說今天黃國昌委員自始至終都沒有在場那另當別論但是他之前已經表達過他的意見了現在可能在不同的委員會裡面正在審查預算那就這個部分只是剛剛主席的宣告並不與剛剛的黃國昌委員的意見不一樣所以我們就在這裡來提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12340.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12360.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
再跟委員會報告一下其實沒有錯啦其實在審預算的時候如果委員不在場我們是不予處理那因為剛剛黃委員是在場但是後來我們是暫保留暫保留就回過頭要處理的時候他不在場了所以我剛剛就說不予處理但是因為你有意見嘛都想就尊重你但是後來一看那因為不只黃委員不在場啊這個連署的委員都不在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12361.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12387.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那是這樣子啦因為其實就算我們現在不予處理齁其實到院會協商的時候還是會處理啦如果他他他有意見他還是會再處理啦對應該跟說明一下那個時候黃國昌委員在場他的暫保留是說今天的會議對不對他就保留到最後再處理而不是最終極的暫保留這個是兩件事嘛所以當我們回頭來再把剛剛第一輪暫保留的東西再做今天會議的最後處理時候那個委員要在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12388.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12409.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
他如果要委託別人代為發言,也必然是該案提案有連署附屬的委員嘛。這個我們審預算幾十年都是這樣子啊。之前那只是一個慣例,但是我想說今天既然有這個案子,而且黃國昌委員他已經也...我可以在院外不在場人家幫我舉手嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12412.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12433.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
因為我們這幾我至少有參與的預算人大概都是各委員會都是這個慣例那我剛剛是因為尊重你的發言我想說因為我剛剛在處理的時候我為什麼會那不經意的就把不予處理講出來後來一看因為是連署的委員都不在場但是呢這個所有的案子就算我們這裡不予處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12434.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12456.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
有意見願會協商的時候還是可以透過黨團還是可以在黨團再提議啦這樣的話我現在可以立刻就是再連署他的案啊不是啦我第一次講說他們如果說是他的案的這個是有道理的然後我們在場委員也支持為什麼不可以跟他講這個就是很簡單的事情啊有需要為了這個程序的不非一致在那裡講這個是這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12459.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12476.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
本來在處理那個議案的時候啊,你說提案的委員不在場,你這本地就不處理了。鍾嘉賓教委講的也對啦,你如果堅持的話,到最後就是你們黨團可以再提案,不影響你的結局。 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12477.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12491.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那個結果啦但是我們還是在各個委員會裡面立法院裡面本來就是有一天你當召委的時候你也會這樣去處理啦否則沒完沒了啦我們就照這樣處理啦好不好如果說你們有堅持你們黨團這體也不會影響到權益啦齁召委我做這樣建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12494.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12515.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
議員會協商後各黨團都可以再提出啦是各黨團當然可以再提出只是我現在想講的就是因為黃國昌委員他今天一開始就已經講了他的案子了對不對可能中間當然後來不知道是說什麼需要再討論還是怎麼樣要保留那他現在只是說就回過他現在這個離開之後他暫時委他委託我 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12516.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12528.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
重新幫他表達這個意見如果說我就講今天我說其他委員自始至終都不在我當然不會幫他說但因為他都在啊而且他之前針對他的案子表達過意見了那他為什麼現在不在沒有剛剛那是他第一輪暫保留現在我們是要做終極在委員會的處理他不在場就沒有辦法剛剛的暫保留是保留到最後剛剛沒共識的現在要解決他 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12542.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12549.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
因為剛剛吳委員的案子我也是他不在場我都沒有處理了他回來我也是沒處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12552.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12576.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
報告翁委員我的案子我不在場都沒處理都沒處理啊剛剛這個既然是這樣的話那我們反正就是之後就保留就保留嘛我們就砍更多就是這個我會建議黃委員這個案子重新再討論嘛那個是兩件事你要不要砍太多那是你個人委員的一個提案我現在談的就是說在場委員不在有些慣例也不見得是合理嘛對不對就像我們剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12580.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12606.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
黃國昌委員他本來就已經在場然後針對他的案子表達過意見那主席我可以在院會主席才是啦主席才是在院會表決的時候我等一下不在你幫我舉手現在國民黨最愛舉手表決陳俊宇無事要等一下離場啊你替我舉手為什麼國民黨要為什麼院長要做舉手表決不就是因為你們民進黨霸佔主席才不在場這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12607.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12629.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
再不在場這件事情處理議案的時候那個委員提案委員他要在場或者是他那個案子連署的委員在場替他講話那沒有問題那剛好這個案子您沒有連署到如果說其他案子您也有連署到你絕對可以代表他我就算沒有連署我也支持他的案子在場的每一個委員不是都可以表達意見嗎更何況我今天也是經過他的授權要表達這個意見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12633.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12654.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
還是跟委員報告一下因為一開始的確我們處理提案的原則一開始就宣告了原則上我們按照慣例盡可能採取共識的方式處理那過去我們委員會各委員會都是這樣那委員們有經歷過預算審查就知道那麼審查的時候在處理的時候處理最後做處理的當下以在場委員跟有連鎖委員來進行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12656.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12656.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12678.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12690.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我還要再講一下啊就是固然什麼委員會有慣例啊但是我認為這個慣例基本上如果大家認為這是有共識的之後還是要法制化就把它寫在這個可能就是我們司法委員會這個相關的會議規則裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12694.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12708.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以否則的話過去這些二席我們現在還要繼續延續嗎?這個很好我趕快在本會期結束前我跟吳釗偉我們來研究一下謝謝好那我們就開始進行主決議第32案是32案嗎?好那個機關代表遵照辦理嗎?好遵照辦理第33案用麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12722.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12741.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
同意委員提案。好,遵照辦理。第三十四案。三十四建議修正文字並十一案處理。好,那麼文字內容。這是三個月跨湖夏會期。我剛剛有改。三個月跨湖夏會期。好,那麼吳志祥委員簽名了。那我們三十四案修正後通過。第三十五案。建議修正文字。 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12742.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12758.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
三十五萬修正文字我看一下三十五萬的文字修正是吳委員的三十五你要修正什麼三十五萬喔就是建議修正文字因為跟那個呃找我跟委員會報告哪一位委員哪一位在說我的我的好請說對呃就是跟委員報告因為那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12759.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12778.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
文化觀光產業如果說要納入國旅卡的話那因為第一個文化我們希望是找文化部來一起來會商然後要國旅卡的特約商店的話要找觀光署所以你就寫原請我倒數第三行原件請行政院人事總處配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12779.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12807.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我看怎麼寫會同文化部、燈號、交通部、觀光署研議嗎?好不好?OK啊?OK就配合文化部跟交通部觀光署研議三個月內吼?好那麼修正後照文字修正後修正後通過第36案建議修正文字修正文字來修正什麼我看一下來請看一下我給我的沒有修正啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12809.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12823.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12824.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12825.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
這樣啦我覺得事實配合太被動了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12855.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12865.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
人事行政總處積極參與積極參與積極參與該平台之研議第一句這樣好不好好積極參與該平台之研議然後後面一樣好不好好36案文字決定後謝謝謝謝第37案好37案召喚通過38案召喚通過39案 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12883.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12909.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
同意委員提案 召喚通過40案同意委員提案 召喚通過41案同意委員提案 召喚通過42案同意委員提案 召喚通過43案同意委員提案 召喚通過44案同意委員提案 同意委員提案有修正一個字是吧 比率那個是別字啦 倒數第二行文字修正後通過 喔喔喔 別字 45案 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12912.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12924.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
同意委員提案。好,照案通過46案。欸,建議修正文字。好,文字修正如何?那麼請那個有幫忙連署的陳委員幫忙看一下。好,第46案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12925.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12949.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
報告委員 那我們那個總預算的部分大概都是授權給主管機關也要針對所屬機關來做一個彈性的調整所以我們對於委員的提案在第二段的部分在那邊後面提到是評估是否符合實際業務需求及人力的負荷並且協助機關我們會增加協助機關來建立更彈性化的人力調配的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12950.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12964.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
好那就在這邊就是希望那個主管人總這邊來協助機關文字有沒有提供給陳委員有那陳委員同意嗎好修正後通過好47案47案47案同意委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12980.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12996.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
好,事宜現在召喚通過事項。建議修正文字。好,文字修正來。請拿過來。是不是要會同?是不是要會同? |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13004.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13029.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
倒數第四行倒數第四行的部分我們是說是不是可以請我們總處我們總處應該妥善的評估把那個後製刪除就適度來增加專庭隊及收容所的單位的員額之可行性因為這個部分可能我們要請他們一起來一起來來做一個妥善的一個研議跟評估好本席同意修正文字修正後通過好第49案 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13033.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13039.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
同意委員提案。好。修正案就按照案通過。50案。同意委員提案。50案照案通過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13043.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13049.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
主決議提案案號第32案至第50案那麼第3、2、3、3、3、7至43、45、47、49、50照案通過第34案、35案、36案、44案、46案、48案修正後通過那麼第二款第三項人事行政總處處理完畢繼續處理第四項公務人力發展學院第二幕訓練輔導及研究提案案號 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13069.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13089.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
至第51案至第56案好,我們現在看到51案51案的部分提案委員吳思堯委員那個吳委員是起議凍結100萬書面報告時的凍資建議改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13095.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13117.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
你們有要努力去做嗎?就是你們對於那個文化相關的賠利的課程確實還不足嗎?有有,我...好,那麼同意後那個主決議請吳思堯委員簽名後通過。好,第52案已經改為主決議,那麼看到翁小林委員同意簽名了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13118.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13134.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那第53案是翁曉琳委員的提案委員已經同意改組決議好那麼組決53案喔不是52案喔53案喔53案建議凍結50萬改書面報告不要幫我們刪啦因為那裡的警衛也是很拮据的 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13154.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13170.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我請學院學院說明一下跟主席問委員報告我是公共人力發展學院所謂學習組組長那這裡所有的資訊預算其實我們大部分都是在執行我們整個學院裡面業務流程要簡化的一些資訊化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13172.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13193.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
業務那我們這幾年來其實預算都沒有增加會增加的部分都是因為資安的要求的關係所以其實我們在114年只增加了160萬那在資訊服務費跟那個資訊軟體設備加起來也只增加160萬那這160萬我們有列一個明細就是說我們裡面包括是因為我們之前採購的防火牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13194.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13219.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那他已經到期保固到期所以我們明年開始要做一些後續維護那我們包含台北跟南投兩個院區所以整個加起來我們也跟廠商訪過架那另外多出來一點的部分其實就是為了治安要求要做一些DDoS防護做一些那個像vans的一些處理那所以這個是在增加很少的情況下那我們這裡面呢我們最近的所有的所有的這個資訊的執行我們都都其實是很有成效的我舉個例子我們每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13223.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13234.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
為了把這些系統把它做好減少減化我們的流程像我們之前把APP的那個把它變成網頁化我們不僅省掉了APP他每年要去做資安驗證的費用然後學員他們也本來還要下載APP還要登入大概我們估算過大概5分鐘那 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13241.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13262.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
現在的話大概稍微QR Code大概就是15秒內就解決那我們有算一下像一年就可以減省下大概17多萬分鐘的時數那像我們的那個行政支援管理系統也是做整個改版那把我們的訓練費用透過系統化的方式來做簡化而且可以很明確的查到每一班他到底是多少的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13263.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13282.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好那這個我們也算過一年可以減省到520人時那我們在今年又特別做了像我們把一家平台的線上課程盤點還有一些問卷全部都是線上化然後一些成效統計也線上化我們估一下一年大概誰可以整下大概410小時人事所以其實我們在經費沒有增加的情況下而且我們也是努力的達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13283.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13286.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
其他委員有沒有其他的意見?來問會員請其實我是認為你們的議價能力有待檢討你們好像這個委托的委辦的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13314.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13334.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
年年都偏高提高而且到底有沒有去認真的議價還是要幫我們這個老百姓要節省公帑啊對我們交稅交那麼多然後呢你們呢好像花錢都不手軟 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13336.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13353.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
議價的成效也不好常常他的那個怎麼決算的就是跟原來的投票金額就差不多一樣的我認為說這邊的話可能還是要簡列啦好不好簡列然後剛剛是我們之前都是以10%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13360.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13388.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那個53案吼其實翁委員的53、54案都是資訊設備吼我這邊吼主席這邊跟委員報告吼其實今天呢我們聚焦在很多關於資訊設備的部分那因為公務人力發展學院其實他的預算規模不大吼我是覺得委員如果覺得53、54吼各動50萬吼那這個部分因為還要送書面報告還要經同意吼還要經同意吼所以這個部分翁委員其實可以考慮一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13391.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13410.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我要表達我的觀點我長期投入政府採購制度的優化在2019年全面大修政府採購法我投入甚深也就是我對於一個政府採購的合理的制度的建立跟革新是我們要面對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13411.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13429.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我認為一個標規的合理是最重要的事情也就是行政部門今天要做一個採購不管是硬體或是軟體你必須非常詳實的我們要做到哪些項目可能要對應的合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13430.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13441.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
錶案的金額是多少才會對得起來所以我從來不認為就我對於政府採購制度投入這麼多年我從來不認為最後去跟廠商議價砍錢是對的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13446.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13472.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我認為在前頭把一個正確的採購要有的合理的標規寫清楚這個標規就是公部門要非常嚴謹的這個採購廠商要達到什麼樣的資格能夠做到什麼樣我們要做的事情然後他能夠達到什麼樣的效果然後我們給予合理合宜的計算之後該給的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13474.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13495.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
一個支付的價金這是一個合宜的、健全的、健康的也是有品質的政府採購案應當有的前提如果每一個政府採購案都是標規降下去然後最後不明就禮就是要廠商溢價打九折打八折這就是我們在革新的部分不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13496.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13510.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我們過去還要求廠商你除了標到案之後你還要給我其他的服務你要送我便當你要送我車子你要送政府其他的東西叫做回饋啊我們都在改革這些東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13511.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13531.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以我要再講這我一定要就是我希望我們對於政府採購有正確的理解那我也相信公務同仁都有正確的一個新的進步的採購的思維委員就教於你們垂詢於你們任何的採購如果在標規的部分確實沒有做好當然要革新 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13532.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13545.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
但我個人是非常反對在後端的溢價溢價溢價要你們溢更多價砍更多錢那傷害的會是整個採購的品質我要表達我的意見好那麼這裡做一個說明那個倒車啦因為跟公教人員委員說明一下剛剛我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13557.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13580.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
人事行政總處的第二幕的第13案那因為我們第三案呢我們剛剛已經做宣告了通通都是提書面報告經同意後時的動之啦所以在經同意就是一定委員會要再做討論所以呢您在第13案的部分您的那個剛剛有人總的同仁請您做一個過目你本來是寫的是專案報告阿其實以 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13581.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13599.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
之前我們在第二幕的所有的案子有專案報告的有書面報告的我們都是用書面報告那因為委員會都還是要同意啦所以是不是讓委員知道一下我們就是按照剛剛的宣告內容避免誤會那這個部分就請量查好那現在回到我們那個公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13601.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13621.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
的部分公務人員的訓練部分那現在呢是翁委員的部分有53案54案那麼機關代表是希望能夠懇請各動50萬的部分那經順便報告經同意後使的動資那不曉得我們委員會各位委員的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13622.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13633.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
因為還是要說明一下因為公務人力發展學院其實預算規模不大如果說人總在我們的公務機關各二級機關已經相對是屬於比較苗條的大概我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13639.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13654.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
公務人力發展中心但只剩竹竿了。我說真的我們現在同仁有一個很大壓力很少跟大家講因為我們承受治安的壓力很大因為我們保有所有公務人員資料人力學院一樣你這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13656.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13670.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
資訊安全沒有做好當發生事情的時候誰去被救責一定是我們的同仁啊我們同仁要去扛這樣的責任在很謙卑的預算底下可以滿足我們的整個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13671.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13687.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
正常安全的運作我覺得這是一個非常重要的那我們也希望大會委員會能夠來支持我們的這個預算真的不要砍因為我都剩下很多很多的了拜託一下像我講的這個資安費用他是常年都在編的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13697.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13722.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
對,然後呢你說現在這個什麼資訊人力的薪水待遇提高這也不是普遍啊除了這個竹科工程園區那邊的工程師可能待遇提高之外其他的還是一樣啊也沒有說是改變太多然後我們現在只是說你把你們所提列的增加的費用我們認為可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13723.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13726.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
做小規模的刪減這只是10%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13728.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13753.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我跟委員報告一下我講這個啦現在人工智慧這麼發達明年我們面對的資安不是以前的資安防護就夠了啦人工智慧的他會引入到整個資安工房如果我們不多增加一些投資的話到時候我們在工房的力道在防護的力道一定會比較弱主要是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13754.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13761.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
資通安全管理法一修再修今年也有再修就是要求各部會強化資安的各項作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13778.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13801.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
預算反應政策因為因應無所不在的我們面對的駭客的攻擊我們可能面對很多甚至來自於對岸的很多在資訊上做的很多竊取機密的行為我們都要支持國家把資安做更好所以我覺得這個預算如果砍了恐怕只是讓我們的資安破洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13803.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13827.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
所以拜託啦因為真的人事總處這個我完全可以理解因為要求你們做的項目越來越多要求越來越高因為我們面對的各種治安的威脅不管是內部或者是境外的我們要全面防範這是已經是國安層級了啦所以我希望大家這個預算一定要支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13828.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13848.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
而且我也真的很不好意思說我念一下這個建於人事行政總處關於資訊軟體費用年年不斷以經濟優化與擴充知名、編列高額預算且多有代理廠商限制新招標軟體開發使用,限制於特定廠商的問題這一句話溫委員的提案您的將近十個案子都是這一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13851.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13866.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
所以我一直在說要人家改善你要具體嘛阿不同的單位從人事總處然後到現在是公務人力發展學院每一個單位只要跟資安有關的資訊有關的您都用同樣一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13867.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13884.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
然後就要大家去去去檢列或凍結那個對於議價能力您個人認為要求他們強化議價能力但是我提出我不一樣的觀點一直去要求議價後端去採購完之後去砍砍經費那就是讓整個採購品質更差 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13889.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13889.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
來 翁委員請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13909.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13935.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我這邊寫的提案因為針對的項目是一樣的有沒有年年都是以經濟優化與擴充知名編列高預算我這裡我都做了表欸要我一個一個唸嗎唸給這個不用工的委員們來聽全國公教人員退休撫恤整合平台專案從104年到13年幾乎都是委託給同一家廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13937.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13949.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
然後還有組織營業資源調查相關系統擴充專案每一年都是擴充專案、擴充專案、系統優化專案連續列10年還有什麼從102年也是全國共享版的各機關內部人事服務網優化專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13967.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13976.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
一直到113年都是不是優化專案要麽就是叫做徵修專案金額也都是差不多很高的如果說你以這個行政院這邊所編列的這多算原則還有他的維護費5%到15%來講的話都已經超過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13998.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14000.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
還有什麼事求人及調查系統功能優化擴充專案也是大概也是從107年到113年每一年都是叫做系統功能優化及擴充案而且每一年變的錢都差不多我還可以繼續再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14025.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14045.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我不是沒有做功課我像有些委員你唸的只是計畫的名稱嘛計畫的名稱所以啊內容啊內容啊那你到底覺得內容哪裡不好你具體的講嘛是喔我叫他們提報告嘛就是沒有做出來啊你不能疑問答問現在是我在講不是你在說實在是你才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14051.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14076.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
然後也是有個系統我剛已經講過了對不對已經集中在幾個特定的廠商標案的名稱擴充了專案的內容但計劃書上面根本沒有寫清楚啊你預計下個年度你要擴充些什麼既然這樣的話我所有的案子我都保留送協商就不砍了就也不用再動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14078.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14097.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
好,我們尊重在場委員的意見那我們第53號我們就保留送協商那後面因為都改成主決議了那57案的部分也是主決議嘛另外主決議另外念那我們先將那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14098.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14108.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那個簡略有修正問題那位我們先處理那個簡略跟凍結的部分第二幕訓練輔導及研究提案案號51案至56案那麼第51、52、55、56改為主決議第53、55保留送協商然後呢我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14120.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14146.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
五三五四保留送協商那麼繼續處理第二款第四項公人力發展學院之主決議提案案號第57、58案那我們現在請看57案是吳委員的提案好那麼文字修改修正後通過那麼再來是58案58案文字修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14149.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14155.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
通過第四項公共人力發展學院主決議提案號第57、58案修正後通過接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14162.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14182.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們就討論事項第一案已處理完畢做以下宣告一四年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分審查完整提報院會院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中超級委員嘉賓說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14184.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14201.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
好那麼現在進行討論事項第二案繼續審查14年度中央政府總預算案關於附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總處主管中央公教人員急難救助基金收支部分因為沒有委員提案預算均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14203.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14215.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
好討論事項第二案已處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完畢提報院會院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召議委員嘉賓說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14217.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14235.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
有關於本次議程討論事項通過修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過之決議依例文字授權主席及議事委員整理本次會議進行到此現在散會謝謝大家 |