| IVOD_ID |
164065 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164065 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T13:04:55+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T13:18:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:16 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edc1d8ca551fa28d2c1179f4a20aeac8eafeaa2f1cd0be3abd6f2c2abc92875f3cc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:04:55 - 13:18:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢。） |
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接下來我們請黃國昌委員謝謝主席 有請內政部部長內政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.5 |
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委員好部長好 延續上一次質詢的主題就是賴總統針對有關於社會住宅的推動上一次在內政委員會我有請教過一次因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
31.212 |
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46.474 |
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就具體上面來講就是百萬戶怎麼計算這件事情我上次質詢有說過我就不要再重複現在大家關注的焦點在於賴總統所提出來的政見跟施政的計畫其中興建社會住宅要有13萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
48.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
73.229 |
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但非常多的NGO還有年輕人大家都在關心一件事情就是13萬戶的社會住宅目前他們所得到的資訊因為這個是NGO的朋友跟一些年輕人他們來反映他們掌握到的資訊是不是客觀真實如果有不對的地方等一下也請部長一併釐清他們目前所掌握到的資訊是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
74.89 |
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86.802 |
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內政部針對有關於興建社會住宅所提出來的一個計畫後來行政院不願意去核定然後卡在行政院事情是不是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
88.111 |
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113.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
報告委員應該是說行政院對於我們所提的三個方案就是直接興建社會住宅包租貸款還有所謂的租金補貼他們認為租金補貼啊算不算是屬於社會住宅的一種當然是啊後來我們解釋過他願意接受部長您看一下所以才會核定我講話都很具體的啦包租貸款多少興建多少租屋補貼多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
114.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
135.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
當初賴總統講得很清楚所以三個數字我是個別列的現在表格上面部長有看到嗎右手邊賴清德預計達成戶數包租貸款17萬戶新建13萬戶租金補貼10萬戶這個是賴總統當初所提出來的證件那個表格我整理得蠻清楚部長這樣看應該可以掌握啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
136.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
157.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在大家關心的事情是說包租代管也好 租金補貼也好現在我今天延續著上一次質詢的主題大家關心的是新建社會住宅的部分新建社會住宅的部分大家看到的是說目前你們新建社會住宅的計畫卡在行政院到目前為止沒有核定 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
158.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
182.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不是我剛跟您報告過就是說這三個方案裡面行政院只有對於這個租金補貼的定義會不會像我們所述的所以後來行政院還是以百萬戶為主對不起我現在在問的是新建社會住宅我知道所以他沒有特別強調說那沒有關係我現在問一下是目前按政府所核定要新建社會住宅今年核定了幾戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
183.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
199.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
今年核定的我可不可以把全部跟您報告一下好不好我們如果用那個每一年的部分的話每一年的目標是5000到5000先不用跟我講目標因為目標我後來有整理出來了今年核定的幾戶到114年9月底的時候全國社會住宅已經達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
201.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
216.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個直接興辦的部分是十二萬一千人不是啊 那是以前舊的資料我說你要新的你要新的新建的社會住宅現在核定了幾戶不是以前舊的Data新的你要蓋的社會住宅現在核定了幾戶我現在的部分就是這樣的我們的目標是二十二萬戶現在已經達成十二萬戶啊部長不好意思齁我現在在問A但是你一直在回答B我再跟你講一次齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
243.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你們現在針對有關於興建社會住宅不是包租代管不是租金補貼是要蓋房子起來的社會住宅你們今年合併的計畫合併的幾戶要興建我手頭上沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
244.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
254.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是有這個數字還是說根本沒有核定當然有這個數字但是我手頭上沒有這個數字沒有關係沒有沒有沒有 是我上一次問的時候我上一次問的時候吳興修署長跟我講的是這件事情還在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
263.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
275.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
還在研議還在規劃沒有一個答案今天部長在備詢台上說有今年有核定要興建社會住宅的戶數只是您現在手上沒有這個數字對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
278.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
302.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
今年已經到10月 當然我們已經有核定的部分對 現在核定了幾戶 現在你沒有這個數字沒有關係 你會後 什麼時候核定的 核定了幾戶書面資料給我好不好我請副署長到時候再給您講可以 因為現在您今天在上面講的跟大家所掌握的資訊 落差非常的大因為10月9號的時候 我們的辦公室問國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
303.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
317.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
國土署回覆給我們的是針對興建社會住宅的部分內政部修正的計畫提給行政院到目前為止還沒有核定這個是我在10月9號的時候辦公室的同仁所得到的回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
318.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
337.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那按照部長的說法是有核定只是你現在不知道幾戶我再確認一次是這樣沒有錯嗎那我要把時間表再弄清楚沒有關係因為到時候為什麼國土署在10月9號是這樣回覆我們辦公室同仁我們再搞清楚但我最關心的事情是什麼我直接跟部長講 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
338.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
343.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個直接新辦戶數這個是各個年度預計累計的新辦戶數你說每一年有計畫譬如說114年就今年2025年要有15000戶115年要有15000戶116年要有15000戶這個計畫上面的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
359.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
373.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們都看到了但計畫歸計畫我們目前看到的事情是說按照內政部的計畫書今年要招標一萬五千戶今年有任何一戶招標嗎好可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
379.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
387.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
包括租屋中心也持續在現在那個盤點的土地上面其實陸陸續續都有今年招標的幾戶詳細數字一樣會後提供一樣因為這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
395.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
410.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你剛剛所講的過去計畫幾戶然後完成的幾戶每一個數字把它列出來大概是這個樣子但是我要說的事情是我們目前所掌握到的資訊因為社會住宅的進度包括內政部公告的資料其實我都有定期在追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
411.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
426.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為一定要定期追蹤才知道說實際上面的進度是什麼我們目前所掌握到的資料目前在處理的社會住宅都還是蔡英文總統任內他們所核定的賴清德總統任內所核定興建的社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
427.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
454.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我到今天備詢為止我所掌握到的資訊是零戶但是部長說不對說有那只是數字你沒有辦法提供那會後再提供沒有關係我們到會後再進一步跟部長討教這個數字因為有進度最重要有進度最重要下一個問題是跟內政部也有關係的跟內政部有什麼關係呢因為我們為了要發展地熱 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
455.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
478.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
為了要發展地熱的發電經濟部的地礦中心在陽明山國家公園管理處辦理探勘在這個過程當中造成了什麼造成了井噴所以陽明山那邊的住戶非常非常的關心那針對這件事情我有問過地礦中心地礦中心說這個廠商在執行的過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
479.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
495.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
出了一些狀況出了一些狀況那顯然就是沒有把這個案子給執行所以出現了這樣子的災難那下一個問題是針對有關於國家公園管理處在國家公園境內有廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
496.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
522.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
沒有依照應該有的規格跟標準去執行地質探灘作業而造成廠商的損害的這一件事情有兩個部分一個依照國家公園法該開法就開法只是開法的金額很可笑新台幣三千元這個不是我真的在意的我真的在意的是它對於國家公園所造成的傷害這個損害到底要怎麼樣去填補的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
525.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
547.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那我現在所得到的資訊是說目前針對有關於破壞陽明山國家公園森林的結果我們的內政部國家公園管理處是跟經濟部地礦中心求償不是跟廠商求償這個是怎麼回事因為當時在申請的時候是經濟部他是用研究計畫的方式所以我們就認為是經濟部他應該負責全責 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
550.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
567.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那你們為什麼不是跟實際的行為人求償呢那如果是這樣的話經濟部可以跟實際的行為人求償好第二個問題目前陽明山國家公園管理處我先講兩個問題的層次啦因為整個事情我看了覺得蠻好笑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
568.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
590.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們的陽明山國家公園管理處跟經濟部的地礦中心求償等於是跟國家的左手跟國家的右手求償錢全部都是納稅人的錢重點是跟廠商求償但我現在最關心的一個問題是說求償的這一百多萬國家公園管理處是按照什麼樣子的基準計算出來的因為我所得到的我所得到一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
596.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
621.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是居住在陽明山那邊居民的陳情那另外一方面是什麼另外一方面是有人去施壓啦當這個廠商說相啦這個廠商後台很硬啦開了三番的協調會談 這個我事後再追 跟內政部沒有關係 但我關心的事情是什麼 我關心的事情是內政部國家公園管理處針對這個球場的金額是怎麼計算出來的 第二個這個錢夠嗎這是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
629.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
651.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
報告委員應該是根據當時經濟部的地礦局跟這個廠商他們之間到底是怎麼樣一個委託的計畫那是地礦中心跟廠商求償的問題現在第一個是真正該開罰的是國家公園管理處因為他造成我們國家公園的破壞按照你剛剛的說明當初提計畫的人是地礦中心所以你們跟地礦中心討 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
652.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
668.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那地礦中心會不會跟廠商討 接下來要去問地礦中心這個過程我都了解所以我的問題是第一棟 什麼叫第一棟國家公園管理處跟地礦中心求償這100多萬的時候我看到這個數字我非常的驚訝我驚訝的理由是說 第一個這個錢夠嗎第二個這個錢怎麼計算出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
674.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
689.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他在文章裡面對不起他在給的那個函裡面想得非常清楚就是有關於裡面的數目或者是說裡面的引起的一些富裕上面的問題他都把他寫得非常的是是是所以你看嘛美工請補償第一年十二萬一千嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
690.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
709.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第二年六萬兩千九百嘛第三年到第六年每一年四萬塊嘛但我現在的問題還是一樣啊你如果說在探討這個球場的金額合理不合理你只是單純把這個數字加起來沒有意義啊現在我更深一層的問題是這一些每一年多少錢的數字是怎麼估出來的真的夠嗎 這是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
714.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
729.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
時間到了沒有關係啊部長可不可以請你承諾請國家公園管理處會後提供一份說明資料給我清楚的說明為什麼是用這個標準來計算因為釀成了這樣子的災害可能我不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
729.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
746.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
可能我不懂對國家公園的維護原來這樣子一百多萬元就可以解決問題我自己看了是有點反常識我覺得是不夠但是當初國家公園管理處到底怎麼計算出來的他的基準是什麼是不是可以請國家公園管理處會後 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
748.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
771.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
會後用書面回覆給我 可以嗎國家公園署吧 國家公園署比較好我想是不是請國家公園署跟委員這邊做一下說明 然後包括沒有關係 直接給我書面的養管處為什麼只有酒廠一百多萬 這個部分好嗎直接給我書面的好嗎因為我覺得非常奇怪的是 如果今天是這個廠商必須要負責任的話為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
773.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
778.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
最後的金額只有這個樣子這個錢真的夠嗎這個是我現在正在關心的事情需要多久一個禮拜之內可以嗎我想應該可以因為這件事情是七月底所以他們在算的過程當中應該可以嗎已經有依據好OK好謝謝 |