| IVOD_ID |
16406 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16406 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-23T08:31:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-23T11:21:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:49:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbf4489611fe8f3d2907777c324b69055f6d1319bf84c91682e575580cf64c906f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金。(處理)【12月23日、12月25日及26日三天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:26 - 11:21:00 |
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1977.898 |
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第11屆我們請主秘報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員6人以足法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1991.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2000.024 |
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現在開會進行報告事項請先讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年12月18日星期三9時4分至11時16分12月19日星期四9時至13時6分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員、政政前委員等14人列席委員、王一川委員等17人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2020.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2041.764 |
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列席人員113年12月18日、星期三農業部部長陳俊記、內政部、勞動部、主計總署各單位代表及其相關人員12月19日、星期四經濟部常識林錦章及相關人員、主計總署代表、主席邱昭吉委員志偉、報告事項、宣讀上次會議議事錄決定、確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2044.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2059.697 |
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討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管非營業部分農業作業基金農田水利事業作業基金農業特別收入基金及信託基金部分農民退休基金決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2062.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2079.352 |
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農業部主管一、農業作業基金一、業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產之建設改良擴充及資金運用等向之審查結果,隨同調整二、業務收支一、業務總收入5億5千零43萬2千元二、業務總支出6億6千6百零4萬9千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2085.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2113.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
三本期短促1億1561萬7千元以上均照列三截角公庫淨額無劣數四轉投資計畫無劣數五固定資產建設改良擴充5381萬4千元照列六國庫增波基金額無劣數七補辦預算部分固定資產制建設改良擴充4374萬2千元照列八通過決議二十項二作業基金農田水利事業作業基金一業務計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2114.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2144.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產之建設改良擴充及資金運用等項目審查結果隨同調整二業務收支一業務總收入一百零八億兩千九百九十一萬五千元二業務總支出一百二十八億六千六百一十二萬元三本期短處二十億三千六百二十萬五千元以上均照列三截繳供庫淨額無劣數四轉投資計劃無劣數五固定資產建設改良擴充九十一億九千三百六十四萬兩千元照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2145.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2150.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
六、國庫增撥基金額73億6452萬6千元照列補辦預算、固定資產之建設改良擴充7億1217萬9千元資產之變賣1億2946萬8千元均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2163.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2176.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
通過決議十二項,三,特別收入基金,農業特別收入基金,一,業務計劃因基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整,二,基金來源用途及輿注,一,基金來源464億4509萬1000元,二,基金用途611億 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2181.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2208.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
六百一十一億六千一百六十七萬六千元三本期短處一千一百四十七億一千六百五十八萬五千元以上均照列三結構工庫劣數四通過決議三十六項四信託基金農民退休基金一基金運用計畫因依據收支於處撥補等項目之審查結果隨同調整二總收入七億兩千七百五十八萬九千元總支出兩百五十五萬五千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2211.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2234.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本期剩餘7億2503萬4千元以上均照列通過決議五項12月19日、星期四討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案、附屬單位預算、營業部分關於經濟部主管、臺灣自來水股份有限公司、臺灣電力股份有限公司、決議甲、經濟部主管、臺灣自來水股份有限公司、業務計劃因應據營業收支生產的轉投資、重大資建設事業及資金運用等項的審查結果隨通調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2239.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2243.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
二營業收支一營業總收入328億9564萬7千元照列二營業總支出不含所得稅費用原列388億2919萬2千元減列服務費用100萬元科目自行調整租金與利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2257.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2261.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
向下利息100萬元、共計減列200萬元、區域均照列改列為388億2719萬2千元、稅前淨損原列59億3354萬5千元、減列200萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2272.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2297.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
改略為59億3154萬5千元三生產成本隨同營業總支出審查結果調整四轉投資計畫無劣數五重大基建設事業294億7302萬元照列六資金運用因依據營業收支生產成本盈虧撥補轉投資及重大基建設事業等相似審查結果隨同調整七補半預算固定資產的建設改良擴充7億5770萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2302.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2327.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
局界57億元均照列8通過決議53項二、臺灣電力股份有限公司一、業務計劃因依據營業收支生產成本轉投資重大至建設事業及資金運用等項至審查結果隨同調整二、營業收支一、營業總收入一兆零47億8529萬3000元照列二、營業總支出不含所得稅費用原列9970億 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2331.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2349.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
4,856萬元、簡列營業費用向下業務費用中服務費用之專業服務費100萬元、火力發電費用向下材料及用品費、使用材料費向中發電用燃料之燃煤60億元、共計簡列60億零100萬元、區域均照列改列為9,910 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2355.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2376.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一十億四千七百五十六萬元,三稅前淨利元劣七十七億三千六百七十三萬三千元,增劣六十億零一百萬元,改劣為一百三十七億三千七百七十三萬三千元,三生產成本隨同營業總支出審查結果調整,四轉投資計劃增加投資七億五千零三十萬三千元照列, |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2377.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2402.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
四重大之建設事業2689亿8819萬8千元照列六資金運用依據營業收支生產成本營業虧補因虧撥補轉投資之及重大之建設事業等項目的審查結果隨同調整主席宣告本次通過決議75項主席宣告本次會議通過決議文字授權主席及議事人員整理、散會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2406.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2428.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好,現場的委員不足3人我們的議事錄暫不確定繼續進行討論事項請宣讀繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管反托拉斯基金今日處理宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2432.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2462.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
公平會的單位預算及反托拉斯基金已於11月28日第18次的會議詢答結束我們今天就依序進行審查審查的程序如下公務預算稅數的部分我們依款別以項為單位稅數部分依機關別以目為單位依序討論基金部分照業務計畫基金來源用途及 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2462.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2464.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
於一處 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2466.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2485.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
結角工庫等逐項審查現在請宣讀今日審查項目與委員提案宣讀完畢後我們再來進行協商請宣讀114年度公平交易委員會稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第17項公平交易委員會1億1895萬4千元第4款財產收入第18項公平交易委員會25萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2493.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2507.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第7款其他收入第18項公平交易委員會7萬元最初部分第二款行政院主管第13項公平交易委員會3億6158萬6千元第一幕一般行政3億3161萬6千元第二幕公平交易業務2947萬元第三幕第一預備金50萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2518.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2524.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
114年度中央政府總預算案公平交易委員會主管反托拉斯基金附屬單位預算非營業部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2528.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2548.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
業務計畫請參閱預算書二基金來源用途及預出部分基金來源5170萬元基金用途6802萬3千元本期短處1332萬3千元三截角公庫無劣數公平交易委員會提案部分第一案罰款及賠償收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2549.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2569.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
罰金罰還及貸金向下罰金罰還凍結八百九十五萬四千元委員鄭天才等提案第二案一般行政向下基本行政工作維持向下業務費檢列一百萬元委員張其凱等提案第三案業務費向下特別費凍結百分之十委員張家俊等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2569.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2584.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第4案公平交易業務向下限制競爭行為調查處理簡列50萬元凍結10%委員賴瑞榮等提案第5案凍結200萬元委員張祺凱等提案第6案凍結1 3%委員鄭振淺等提案第7案凍結20%委員張家俊等提案第8案凍結718000元委員鄭天才等提案第9案凍結1 10%委員蔡易瑜等提案第10案凍結50萬元委員邱志偉等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2600.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2605.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第11案凍結5%委員蕭一鳳等提案、第12案凍結5%委員蕭一鳳等提案、第13案凍結5%委員邱瑞穎等提案、第14案第13集產業獨佔結合及聯合行為之調查處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2616.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2628.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
簡略15萬元委員章齊凱等提案。第15案凍結100萬元委員陳昌明等提案。第16案凍結100萬元委員鄭振淺等提案。第17案凍結100萬元委員李玉琳等提案。第18案凍結1%委員陳亭飛等提案。第19案凍結20萬元委員章齊凱等提案。第20案第二級產業獨占結合及聯合行為之調查處理簡略50萬元委員章齊凱等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2643.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2656.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第21案不公平競爭行為調查處理及多層次傳銷管理檢列50萬元凍結50萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案。第22案檢列10萬元委員陳廷飛等提案。第23案全數凍結委員鄭天才等提案。第24案凍結100萬元委員陳超明等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2663.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2671.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第25案凍結80萬元委員呂玉玲等提案,第26案凍結1⅓委員鄭振淺等提案,第27案凍結50萬元委員邱志偉等提案,第28案凍結20%委員張家俊等提案,第29案凍結1⅓委員蔡奕宇等提案,第30案凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2684.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2693.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第31案凍結5%委員缺營等提案第32案凍結3%委員呈停費等提案第33案法務及行政救濟業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2695.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2703.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
動輒50萬元委員呂玉玲等提案第34案動輒20%委員張家俊等提案第35案動輒5%委員賴瑞榮等提案第36案綜合規劃及宣導業務檢列100萬元委員張祺凱等提案第37案檢列50萬元動輒5%委員賴瑞榮等提案第38案檢列10%委員楊瓊英等提案第39案檢列1萬元動輒5%委員陳廷飛等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2721.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2735.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第40案凍結50萬元委員呂玉玲等提案第41案凍結20%委員張家俊等提案第42案凍結20萬元委員邱志偉等提案第43案凍結5%委員邱瑩等提案第44案凍結100萬元委員陳超明等提案第45案凍結三分之一委員鄭振淺等提案第46案凍結十分之一委員蔡易宇等提案第47案凍結20萬1千元委員鄭天才等提案第48案 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2751.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2758.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
政策擬定及國際交流業務檢列100萬元凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案第49案凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案第50案業務費向下一般事務費向下舉辦國際競爭網絡研討會等相關費用全數凍結委員張家俊等提案第51案資訊業務及經濟分析產業資料管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2775.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2781.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
檢列10%委員楊瓊怡等提案。第52案檢列50萬元凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案。第53案凍結1%委員鄭振淺等提案。第54案凍結20%委員張家俊等提案。第55案凍結100萬元委員李玉玲等提案。第56案凍結1%委員蔡依瑜等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2795.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2798.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第57案凍結50萬元委員邱志偉等提案第58案凍結45萬7千元委員鄭天才等提案第59案至66案為主決議請參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2806.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2816.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
反托拉斯基金預算提案部分第67案強化反托拉斯執法計畫檢列150萬元凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案第68案凍結2000萬元委員張祺凱等提案第69案凍結500萬元委員呂玉玲等提案第70案凍結5%委員邱瑩等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2825.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2843.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第71案服務費用向下媒體政策及業務宣導費凍結25%委員張家俊等提案第72案會費捐助補助分攤照護救濟與交流活動費向下捐助補助與獎助凍結25%委員張家俊等提案第73案 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2845.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2852.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
數位經濟競爭政策研究及倡議計畫簡略237萬元委員鄭天才等提案第74案簡略50萬元凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案第75案簡略50萬元委員陳廷飛等提案第76案凍結25%委員張家俊等提案第77案凍結5%委員邱瑩穎等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2866.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2877.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第78案,凍結100萬元委員邱志偉等提案。第79案,數位匯流新時代之不實廣告及不動產查查計畫凍結100萬元委員陳昌明等提案。第80案,凍結100萬元委員呂玉玲等提案。第81案至85案為主決議。請參閱。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2889.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2911.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好,我們在場委員已經有三位我們來確定議事錄請問在場的同仁上次會議議事錄有錯誤?好,沒有,我們議事錄確定那我們先介紹在場的委員謝一鳳委員鄭天才委員張祺凱委員還有今天公平會的我們的李竺偉那我們現在就開始來協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2917.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2926.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
行政院主計總署公務預算的專門委員黃小娟委員基金預算處的王佩珊科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2943.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2962.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好那現在開始我們就來審查114年度公平交易委員會的預算提案那先到先來審查我們的稅務部分在第一項這個第一幕我們先請鄭天才委員先說明好那先請我們主委說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2978.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2994.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主席、各位委員還有各位女士先生大家早安第一幕是稅入收入公平會主要的稅入收入來源是執行違法行為的罰款收入今年我們的編列數是1億1100多萬請委員支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3002.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3027.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
好 那個主委旁邊也準備高腳印你可以坐著休息 那我們鄭委員鄭委員我請教一個事請鄭委員我一直在關心那個台電去買那個民間電廠店那個壟斷行為後來你不是打官司贏了嘛對不對是那個錢什麼時候會回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3028.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3053.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那個還在行政訴訟當中,要整個判決確定之後,罰款金額才會來。他有先繳進來,但是就是說這筆錢如果確定了以後才會編入決算數。那我們罰的這些錢已經都有繳來。現在繳多少錢?他們繳多少?60億左右,61,就是我們的處分的罰款。處分,那他什麼時候定案錢會進來?現在還在訴訟當中。現在到什麼階段? |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3059.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3077.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在這個跟審 這個來來回回有繼續跟審 是你預計大概什麼時候這個案子可以可以最後的這個定案把錢要回來我們盡量要打贏這個官司但是最終的結果我們還是要看法院怎麼判 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3077.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3094.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個很重要,這對國會很重要,你看你一年編的才1億1895萬欸那個60億欸那個我們就是每年會看每一次收入的這個罰款的情形現在照我們的那個司法的進行方式,這個更來更去的話還要更好幾年對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3096.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3114.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
是啊,就訴訟的進度要看當事人供給防疫的狀況。對啊,那這樣公平會的功能就沒有彰顯了,不是很可惜嗎?因為整個已經在訴訟當中,我們在訴訟中也是有希望法院能夠進訴,就是說能夠審結,那我們已經很 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3116.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3117.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3147.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3153.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
現在在高院還在審理當中基本上是我細節請我們處長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3156.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3179.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
發言委員齁 那個案子現在實體的部分已經確定就是確定有聯合行為但是那個罰款的那個額度啊因為這個案子的額度是比較高沒有錯所以法院還是比較謹慎那當事人其實他們其實也花蠻多時間去打這個訴訟去建議去主張說那個額度的部分是不是應該要再往下降那我們當然就是捍衛我們本來的一個立場這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3180.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3186.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
就是現在你很確定他是壟斷行為嗎?就是事實行為我們贏了,但是發多少錢就沒有這一點。 發多少錢現在還在討論,光是這個金額已經討論多久了? |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3192.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3219.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這個案子其實來來回回反覆的訴訟從這個案子一開始被我們處分到現在法環的額度都一直在爭執對 所以我今天在講嘛就是說人民對人民跟立法院對公平會有期待嘛那就希望說你們已經窮盡方法了結果這個事情還一直在拖延你們有什麼方式讓它可以盡快一個是速度嘛一個是你們的積極面嘛好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3221.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3249.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
就是在訴訟當中我們也會積極再跟法院如果能夠協調找一點結案但是因為這案子當事人也很多有9個當事人所以會花比較多時間訴訟主委我再提醒一個點就是這個事情你如果處理的不是沒有處理你處理的不過沒有個結果的話那有人看你嗎民進黨解決的時候你是沒有牙齒的老虎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3249.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3277.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你已經動手了 對不對 你已經告他了 對不對 那本來十指你都贏了 對不對 就為了一個錢 閒在那裡 阿我那明天一直在看 醫藥公平會的裁決 我就把你告成你來挖就好了 那都拖延在那裡阿 那不是表示公平會的功能是不髒了嗎 所以要想辦法啦 對不對 我講其實該怪的兩個 對不對 時間點怎麼樣去競爭去爭取到 第一個你的力道要強化 是是是 我們也窮居我們這個攻擊防疫 好現在再請聖天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3279.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3300.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
再說明一下就是說這個第一審的判決一審判決剛才這個我們延續剛才的案子一審的判決這個現在是罰的金額跟一審判決所判的落差多少然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3301.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3306.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
後來是你們上訴還是他們上訴還是兩邊都上訴然後這個上訴到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3313.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3337.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個案子當初在來來回回的過程被法院撤銷的時候法院其實不會判說多少額度法院只是說你們要再斟酌所以那個部分他當時因為在涉及到舊法的時候所以要拆成兩個部分他比較麻煩的拆成兩個部分那實體的部分就是已經確定了然後那時候針對那個罰款額度的部分他又再去打訴願那時候是有可以經過訴願程序的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3338.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3365.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
現在跑到那個法院的階段實體部分竟然已經確定了那就大家不要再去爭執聯合行為的存在但是就那個額度因為我們當初在罰這個案子的時候考慮到他的這個影響比較重大所以我們罰款的額度是比較高我們是盡力的在捍衛這個整個競爭秩序但法院的想法是說因為你罰的比較高所以我們應該要從嚴來去審查那個所以其實不是說我們本會沒有去捍衛我們的立場或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3365.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3387.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
努力的去維護這個競爭秩序我們的想法跟法院的想法反而是不一樣的法院的覺得說法那麼高所以我就從嚴審這是為什麼這個案子一直拖到現在還是沒有辦法結束的原因最近才剛今年的時候才剛他們又在針對那個額度的部分又重新的在開庭我聽你講我發現一個很嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3394.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3417.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
法院跟法院在講說法那麼高他從台電賺的錢更多欸應該是他賺我們賺台電跟賺我們的錢更多欸對不對他壟斷行為然後該給台電的不給對不對該降價的不降阿損害是我們全民欸而且算起來我應該不止60億啊搞不好上百億欸所以你們一開始你們提的是90嘛對不對哈 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3420.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3438.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你們提60所以兩個點嘛一個法院認為太高你跟他說其實沒有相關還太低對不對那時候第一個他是壟斷行為阿第二個是本來他本來就應該這樣而且他自己都答應了嘛他等於是騙台電騙我們全民阿因為我們拿人民的錢去補阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3439.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3459.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
你要跟法官講清楚現在就是說訴訟實務上是這樣有違法行為這個法院沒有意見但是我們法很高那通常法很高法院就說你為什麼法這麼高你怎麼算的這個算法有時候他認同有時候不認同就請我們針對法環的顧問我算給他看他被當事人另外店長他也會有意見你這個算的這裡有問題前後法的適用有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3470.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3480.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
現在兩邊在公訪嘛,你們代表公平會同時也代表全民嘛,所以我也要求台電自己要比較積極的啊。 台電被扣掉,全民被欺負了嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3483.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3511.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以每每兩個點一個要讓法官很清楚知道第一個不是說你單純看那個結對值什麼60億這60億我認為太低啦第二個更精準第二個要做的你要很精準跟台電講清楚他到底損害了多少錢因為這是人民每一分錢都人民的啊你都已經確定他是壟斷了對不對那他造成的損害事實上是比這60億還要更大你要把這60億提出來啦好不好不要弄到後來金額又降下來我覺得60億真的太少了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3512.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3514.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好嗎?好,OK |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3529.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3550.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第一案我們就預算照列然後鄭委員的提案我們就改成主決議他已經呈上來了好那接下來我們處理稅出部分在第二案第一幕請張委員這部分公平委員來說明過這個可以改成主決議沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3551.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3576.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們第二案改成主決議接下來第三案第一幕張委員的案子我們就第三案是張家俊委員的另外一個張委員那張家俊委員的案子就照列接下來第四案對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3579.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3588.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那個張委員是同意 你在這裏講你照列啦 那主席宣布照列 主委你要說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3592.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3617.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
你是不是要照列就對了?主委 照列了都已經說通過了啦主委 如果你們有去找我們所有經濟的委員提案的委員去做說明有任何更動你要在我們審查這個案子之前送上來就不要耽誤我們的時間那現在第三案你們有沒有去溝通過?溝通過了溝通過他張委員怎麼回答? |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3620.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3642.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
因為這個案子是羅智強委員的提案所以他本來是要就是特殊會的部分那現在同意同意照列嗎改成主決議那要送上來所以你們事先送上來好不好對是 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3646.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3672.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
雖然說其他委員會的委員有提案但是還是以我們本委員會的委員的提案為主所以你要先送上來我剛剛問你的時候你就說他已經改成主決議了主決議送上來有沒有簽名有好第三案我們的預算照列張家俊委員的提案改成主決議接下來我們要審查的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3674.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3689.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
第2目的第4案到第13案我們先請主委說明跟委員報告第4案到第20案其實都是同一個科目先 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3692.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3719.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們議事人員都已經編排好了他們就說先處理到13案我們就先到13案好不好沒有問題那第4案到13案我們主要是在處理限制競爭行為的調查處理那細部來看就是我們查處聯合行為獨佔不正競爭還有結合案這一些執法行為所需要的費用這個目的是要維持台灣的競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3722.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3745.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
先請陳廷飛委員這個部分其實是在我的後面啦因為我本來也以為說是2到20那你先處理待會我到我的18我在發言好請邱志偉召委這個我第10案的部分第10案我改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3749.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3751.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
第10案改成主決議蕭玉鳳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3771.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3796.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
還有一個問題就在於說那個Uber Eats是美國的公司嘛那如果在川普上任之後那他要退出WTO那對於這個結合案的審議會不會有差別性不會有差別我們在審核結合案有我們的處理原則對因為你知道嘛就是說他上任前跟上任後有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3797.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3801.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
再加上說上任後如果就是美國他的貿易情況的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3802.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3827.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
會不會對這個結合案有...因為UberEats是美國公司那Fubenda是德國公司嘛那這樣子兩個就是說在這個局勢變動之下會不會有任何的差異那你是不是能做以上的說明不會有差異我們審核結合還是依據我們的公平交易法那根據我們的公平交易法我們有一些結合的處理原則我們還是依照我們的法令繼續來審查這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3829 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3829.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
張綺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3844.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3857.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
很多委員都提案我想最關心的還是那個Uber Eats跟普遍塔那個合併案的問題啦所以我先提議說先凍結兩百兩百的原因就是因為你一定很快你這個案子就要審了嘛對不對如果審的這個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3860.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3885.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
全部的立法委員關注的一個就是一般的消費者錢你有沒有保障嘛第一個是外送員的這個錢你有沒有保障嘛那另外那些店家有沒有因為你這個合併案例如說價格變高了他受到衝擊然後又轉嫁給這個消費者但是三個面向只要先凍結然後先觀察然後你們本來就要審嘛對不對審完的結果是符合全民的到時候我們就解凍好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3890.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3901.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我想跟委員說明一下因為這個計畫要處理的是查緝聯合行為、不正競爭等等有其他的我們核心業務的執法的行為要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3902.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3914.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
復本大這個案子確實很重要但是他是我們諸多的個案之一的一件我們一定會很努力很積極的依據現有的法律來處理那本來這個預算是500多萬東捷200萬可能在業務上執行會 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3919.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3921.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
等一下本席再來處理你先回答委員的問題就可以了好接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3946.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3964.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
區委員你的案子我們審到第13案你有沒有意見13現在到13好先主委再跟區委員說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3969.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3983.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個計畫主要的執行是在查緝聯合行為不正競爭的行為還有結合案件那目的是維護我們台灣的競爭秩序那最主要是在執法方面所必須的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3991.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4018.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我沒有意見但是我對於剛剛這個有委員提到因為某些個案然後要來凍結這個預算我個人是有一點看法我覺得不應該依某些個案然後來凍結或者是刪減預算我們可以要求你們要秉公處理要再更獨立性獨立性要再更強一點但是如果因為某些個案這個去凍結這個預算我覺得這個不是很妥適 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4022.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4039.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好謝謝那以上委員都提出意見了那現在我們就來處理第4案到第13案第10案是改成主決議那我們從第4案到第13案我們就凍結200萬科目可以自調科目自調 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4042.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4044.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
第4到第13是571萬的預算,你整個凍結200萬,200萬你凍了將近五成欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4061.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4080.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那你解凍的日期還遙遙無期欸還不曉得什麼時候會解凍主席要不要我們連同那個因為這個部分連同其實到20案都是差不多都是這樣的一個我們講完再來處理好不好阿不然你現在凍成這樣我們這裡還要求凍這樣就靠尿尿啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4082.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4089.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
11案跟12案我就是做文字修正改書面那凍結改書面這樣好不好好 謝伊鳳委員從他的11案跟12案改成主決議是嗎好改成主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4111.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4111.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
張祺凱委員、賴瑞隆委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4127.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4145.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
現在看起來應該有兩個可以比較接近大家可以接受的那個戴瑞榮那一位不是提了個減類50萬嗎?然後凍結10%我是凍結200然後其他委員都提了後面也有加進的提凍結20%嘛我是不是建議例如說要不要用戴瑞榮這個減類50萬凍結10%或者是用我的凍結200來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4151.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4175.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
加進還有一個凍結20我們就少一個折衝值好不好好先請賴委員我的建議是這樣因為要不就凍結50萬要不然就剪裂50萬就挑一個啦但是我覺得就是給予他們要求他們來做一個處理啦那我還是希望他們對於這一塊的這個特別是普遍大這一塊的這些相關的事務的部分還是要謹慎來做一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4181.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4194.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
副編長這個事情大家都非常關注了我相信不是有前面這個提案後面很多提案跟這個都連動啦我怕聽我講一下剛剛那個時效性不是問題因為這個事情不可能再拖了嘛對不對正常應該是明年1月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4197.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4221.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
現在已經在審查當中啦,我們會盡量快點審查你的意思搞不好12月最近就,所以時效不是問題嘛,第二個大家都關注嘛,所以這個事情一定要有一個態度啦老師建議應該是差不多那個瑞隆你不能一下子那個減劣50跟凍結10%兩個變成選一個,你可以,我可以贊成你本來的提案本來提凍結,那個減劣50萬或者凍結10%要不然就用凍結200萬好,陳廷飛委員陳廷飛委員完畢了賴瑞隆委員,我們就要來處理囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4229.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4257.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
謝謝主席其實這前面到13跟到20其實它都是同樣的就是說在我們整個限制競爭行為的調查處理啦齁那其實這個FuPenna跟UberEat的部分齁我都覺得我們公平會的態度太為軟弱了你們所講的都完全得不到一般民眾可以對你們的認同感 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4258.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4271.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
因為這兩個合併之後變成大怪獸而且他大怪獸是從消費者到整個外送員一直到餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4274.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4302.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我相信這個完全以後都沒有人可以管得到的然後你們當時所做的一些瞭解座談、公聽會又辦得這麼狹隘我都不知道說你們到底有沒有全面去得到這些消費者也好還有我們的外送員甚至餐飲業者他們真正的聲音我都很懷疑那你現在延後了一個月沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4304.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4328.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
可是延後一個月我們現在我們要去補做什麼動作你延這個一個月的意義在哪裡會不會再延第二次因為你們上次其實我在質詢台已經跟你們質詢了你們光一個公聽會明明這個是知識體大的案子你們居然就是北中南就這樣東 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4330.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4352.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
為什麼吝嗇於多開幾場讓人家南部就要到處奔走六都你都不捨得辦所以你讓人家沒有辦法全面去表達他的意見甚至是你說有我們在網路上有收集可是網路上收集又是那麼小的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4354.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4368.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那麼小的意見可以代表全部的外送員?可以代表全部的餐飲業者?可以代表所有的消費者嗎?所以你們到底這一個月你們是要做什麼?我想跟委員說明一下好,請帶領委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4374.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4391.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
好,我想上次在質詢的時候我也跟主委提醒過啦齁這個Uber Eats跟Fubima的併購案這個其實對台灣會造成相當大的一個影響它對於消費者的權益對於這個外送員的權益都會造成相當重大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4392.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4419.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那我也講過全世界沒有這兩個併起來後幾乎佔了八成甚至到九成的一個比例全世界沒有任何一個國家在世界外送的狀況狀況下有超過七成的沒有一個那甚至於新加坡更直接的你連案子送進來我根本連收都不收我連收案都不收案就公平會已經收案了公平會到現在為止的態度讓我們非常擔心我們很擔心最後你出來的結果處理完的結果跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4420.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4449.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個是有相當大的一個落差跟人民的觀感跟相當大的落差而且我上次也提醒過了Uber Eats在這個美國的例子裡面其實有去對於他的委員有做一些收買的一些動作的那在台灣我不知道會不會這麼做所以他也有留下一個不好的一些惡例的時候那我們會開始擔心公平會的委員能不能很公正的去做出一個好的一個裁決這都是我們非常擔心的而 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4449.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4467.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
公平會也是政府的議員也是代表的政府的形象一旦做出了不恰當的一個處理的時候那往往會造成整個國家形象重大的受傷之外也會造成我們的消費者的一些權益跟這個外送員的權益一個重大的影響所以我們還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4468.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4492.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
要求主委真的必須非常非常慎重處理這件事情每個委員包括所有的民間都表達強大的擔憂我再次提醒如果兩個整併是超過八成甚至九成絕對是一個獨佔的而且全世界沒有一個國家超過七成以上台灣會成為第一個所以我們認為這件事情主委要很有魄力去做這個解決不然真的會造成大家非常大的一個傷害跟隱憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4495.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4514.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我來一起回答委員關心的主委因為剛好我們跟議事處這邊討論一下還是把這個第4案一直合併到第20案一起處理好了所以在這個增加14到20的部分有委員有意見的話也是可以提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4515.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4535.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
本期提案也是第17案我們也希望我們對於外送平台跟店家跟消費者這邊的權益一定要照顧到這個已經很久了我們希望我們公平會能夠確定的來執行你們工作業務才能夠讓我們所有三方的權益都獲得保障那其他委員還有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4540.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4545.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個案子各界都關注其實我們也非常注意第一個我們一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4546.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4575.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
公正依法審慎處理第二個剛才委員提到說為什麼要再嚴這麼重大的一個案件除了徵詢各界意見以外當事人也應該要來陳述意見那因為這兩個是這個外商公司他們能夠來台灣陳述意見的時間經過他們的這個這個戳上以後是在12月17號也就是我們是在11月8號 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4578.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4605.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
文件齊備12月19日當事人要來陳述意見這是正當程序的一個需要那我們為什麼會延呢因為法定期間是到19號那到17號來陳述意見如果沒有做出委員這個案子就會準了所以為了這個慎重起見我們一定要先延這個審查的期間當事人陳述意見以後針對他的意見綜合去判斷這是為什麼要延的一個理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4606.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4629.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
現在所有的程序都齊備當事人也都陳述意見了我們正積極在針對各界的意見以及結合當事人的意見現在正在審查那當然會用一個很快的時間盡量來處理那委員的意見我們所有的公平會的委員也都瞭解那因為公平會是一個獨立機關我作為主委沒有辦法去 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4631.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4658.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
告訴委員說這個案子應該要怎麼做但是各界包括立法院國會的意見我非常充分的表達給我們的其他的委員去了解好 我們先請張其樂委員完畢之後請陳庭菲委員我們的議事人員真的很優秀他們剛剛已經看到實際上不是只有到14條啦後面的那個19、20那個都是那個都是在這個課目那實際上大家現在這次會提我相信大部分委員都會提老蔣還是這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4660.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4662.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
時效你不要擔心預算被凍結的問題,你要擔心的是被減累 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4674.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4700.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
目前檢列的人是比較少所以我就往凍結的方向來走因為你時間也很快馬上要處理嘛會有結果嘛對不對然後你要保證說你會很積極跟正面的專念來處理這個問題所以大概不會是讓我們跌破眼鏡的答案也不會讓前名很失望嘛所以主委不要太擔心我的建議就是說整體來談一個談一個第一往凍結方向走那第二個就是整體來談看到凍多少那你們如果趕快把它處理好前名都符合那都沒有問題了就夠了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4702.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4730.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
陳婷菲委員主委說的就是說會議最主要是因為我們要做到完整性就是說讓當事者他可以陳述一件所以他原本他12月17號才能陳述所以呢我們這整個案子是12月19號原本如果沒演的話12月19號就要做出準博了否則如果沒有做出動作的話就會等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4731.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4758.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好像他就變成是同意所以呢如果依照這個理由那麼我們還勉強可以相信我們公平會還是公正的可是我很擔心剛剛主委一直說我們公平會的委員是很公正的可是在我們數次看到公平會的所有的資料裡面不好意思我完全看不到我們的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4758.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4783.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那個我們的助理不好意思我們看不到我們的主委所以呢在這個當中我們會認為你所講的我們更擔心啊沒錯啊是獨立機關那會不會獨立到完全沒有聽到人民的擔憂跟我們消費者的聲音甚至是所有參與業者的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4785.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4813.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這是非常嚴重的如果公平交易委員會遭受影響有可能他的這個外送費然後等等他的要求會更高這轉嫁在誰的身上消費者的身上業者的身上然後可能會對我們的外送員給予更嚴格的要求這對我們台灣所有的不論是外送 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4815.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4843.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
外送員或是我們的餐飲業者或是我們的消費者剛好是三商我再一次強調這不是獨立機關與不獨立機關的問題這是牽扯到我們三方我們台灣人民可能會因此受到嚴重傷害所以我再一次強調這個其實如果依照現在一面倒大家都反對根本他的準博會很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4845.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4863.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
如果再拖拖拉拉讓我們會更加質疑公平會的態度所以其實我不會因為個案去凍結可是我也認為公平會從過去到現在我們在立法院講的反正每次都是屁話 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4865.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4890.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
沒有一次對你們會有任何的約束性所以我也認為在這個預算當中應該是要有所凍結凍結完之後我相信如果很快能夠做出人民能夠有依據的而且能夠同意相信的結論我們再與書面解凍我覺得這才是比較重要 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4891.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4917.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
好 謝謝那我們現在就來處理第4案到20案在11、12這3案都是改成主決議那這個整 這個第4到第20案我們就凍結100萬科目可以自調各位大家支持你的預算我請你要有擔當把所有業務可以執行好 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4920.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4922.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
總共才570萬從第4到第20是571加215好不好這個210萬是在571萬裡面的向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4938.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4945.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這全部啊 全部就從571萬的那個公平交易業務限制競爭行為調查到後面的加了那個215萬公平交易業務就限制競爭行為調查處理那個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4953.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4969.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
全部加在一起那個210萬不是加570萬是570萬向下有一個215萬他是一三之位主席那我建議就凍結50好不好就是其實目標希望他們這已經加在一起了啦因為很多都改成主節目總決議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4972.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4987.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
主委你不要這麼多意見是我們委員在決定的100就很少而且重要是你趕快解決不緊張100都馬上就解動你順便報告出來就動之啊欸主委你這樣的態度我都懷疑說待會做出來結果一定不是這樣勒好了啦100100100還好啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4992.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5018.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
200降成100已經很好了我再宣告一次請主委尊重我們委員的決定大家都同意這樣子做了而且我們今天已經凍結很少了再重新宣布一次從第4案到第20案其中的第10、11、12改成主決議那4到20案我們凍結100萬書面報告經同意使得凍資科目可以自調 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5019.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5040.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好接下來是21案到32案在我們的第二幕請先說明好那21到32主要是我們處理不公平競爭的調查包括不實廣告等等這是還有多層次傳銷的管理跟各種法令的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5046.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5073.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
請陳尼菲委員然後賴榮維還有張七凱委員謝謝主席對於多層次傳銷我一直認為你們的管理你們都在自繳械也就是把你們的武器都完全放給大家我們一直要求你們要比較嚴格管理但是我們公平會說不要要求你們修法你們說不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5075.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5095.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你們覺得這樣就OK了可是我要問請問多層次傳銷光這些所謂的不實廣告不當正品然後損害他人營業信譽還有其他影響秩序還有罔顧公平行為的請問你們去年總共多少件 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5097.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5116.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
不實廣告我們每年在不實廣告方面沒有我只有說多層次傳銷的這個部分我沒有說全部喔多層次傳銷喔關你這個部分請問有真正被你們判別調查的不算喔你的調查各位都沒事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5117.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5135.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
調查不算後真正已經在整個多層次傳銷已經有處理了罰的不實廣告不當贈品損害他人營業信譽還有其他主意影響到交易秩序還有影響公平行為的這幾個樣態請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5138.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5156.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
總共處理幾件我們去年多層次傳銷處理的有100多件那正式行政處分的有9件對啊100多件真正行政處分9件這個比例你認為你們可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5158.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5186.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這些100多件應該都是消費者檢舉的有檢舉或者是我們查處就是你們自己查處的你們自己查的結果最後還不了了之這不是很好笑嗎100多件所以我才跟你說由你們自己來講100多件最後懲處的行政法才9件 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5189.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5203.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以你們完全把你們的武器都攪出去了我們不會怕嘛怎麼會怕怎麼會怕好9件裡面請問比例最多的分別是在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5205.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5218.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
九件違反的太陽一百多件最後有懲處的行政法就是只有九件這九件裡面分別的樣態又是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5220.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5242.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
是跟委員報告我們這個最常見到的他違法的一個太陽是你不要說你搬太陽這9件你們好不容易從100多件都沒事沒事沒事最好終於有9件有事情這9件的太陽主要focus在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5244.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5244.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
幾件? |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5262.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5276.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
你這樣依照你講的這個都是小事欸因為我們是處理多層次傳銷管理法跟委員報告以這個我們這九件裡面我們有一件是退出退貨他這個沒有按照我們的規定來做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5276.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5285.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
另外有5件就是屬於報備程序有違法就是剛剛提到可能還沒有開始還沒有報備就做傳銷另外就是他應該變更報備然後沒有來變更報備這個有5件那另外還有這個屬於他這個其他的這種違法的太陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5295.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5322.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那這個什麼違法太陽這邊六件阿那個沒有照你們規定的退出退貨的一件阿然後沒有完成報備程序的五件阿對不對然後再來勒那其他勒你有九件阿還有三件阿所以你的資料也沒有多重阿我的了解我們還有譬如說傳銷商傳銷事業對於傳銷商沒有好好規範你們今天要來處理這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5325.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5353.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這裡面寫這麼清楚不公平競爭行為調查處理及多層次傳銷管理這將你請測你們手中的資料都不齊全你們到底這一年來已經好不容易100多件然後好不容易只有剩9件你們9件到底怎麼懲處的行政法的太陽你們都講不清楚你們公平會到底在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5356.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5363.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
叫你們嚴格管理 你們不嚴格管理 要給你們武器 你們不願意 都說這樣就夠了 結果明明我們從周邊 給我們讀書的 給我們聽證的 不使廣告一堆 不當證品的一堆結果這個都不是你們行政法的太樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5380.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5382.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
關於公平交易委員會第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11屆第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5406.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5434.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以我認為我要檢列這一筆錢齁我要檢列10萬給你們一個一個警惕啦因為我們每一次在這邊立法院這邊講的每一次反正告訴不給回家公共的然後明明消費者給我們的陳情那麼多到你們那邊都是不以出力查無證據查無事實那到底我們我們要怎麼對消費者交代啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5436.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5459.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
消費者明明都有被所謂被騙的感覺好 謝謝委員東西我再說明一下我們一併回答委員詢答完畢之後你再一併回答你要把回答清楚不然委員不會支持你的預算現在請賴立倫委員我想公平會每次啦其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5460.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5486.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
諮詢很多次加很多次啦齁那幾乎是搞不回家啦齁就是大概一年反正應付個立法院兩三次撐一下就過去了齁所以基本上幾乎沒有辦法每次我們在講到這些問題不管是積極行政這件事情啦齁我認為其實公平會幾乎是全政府部分大概最保守單位之一啦齁那基本上每次都要求你們手上有很多的武器應該更積極的去做作為可是每次都很失望啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5486.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5506.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
像現在最嚴重最嚴重的其實都是很多的詐騙不實的廣告詐騙那很多部會不見得有武器但是公平會其實是有武器的你可以更積極一點行政也很多的程序上可以保障嘛你如果對這些詐騙者或對這些違法者你覺得違反到他的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5506.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5526.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
他還有很多救濟的程序但是不是你們幾乎是自我嚴格自我的保護完全是不碰這個完全限制所以讓整個詐騙的狀況幾乎是變成警察機關是後面收的收不完處理不完一直宣導拜託大家不要被騙拜託大家然後看到這麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5528.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5556.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
詐騙的廣告不斷出現在網路上不斷出現在然後公平會明明有一些武器可用的你們卻自我的限縮不願意用你們只是因為我覺得你們是覺得麻煩啊弄了啊到時候還要麻煩了事情太多了太麻煩了乾脆就不要處理或者謹慎處理很確切有的再處理啊沒有的就不要但是在面對這種很惡劣的詐騙行為大家一看就知道是詐騙的行為的時候你當然要很強勢的去做處理嘛平台覺得有壓力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5557.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5583.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
你對開罰下去絕對有壓力這些詐騙者絕對有壓力對這些人你不用下手不能留情嘛你留那麼多的情就是一堆人被詐騙嘛那但是公平在這件事情有沒有善加運用國家給予你們的武器沒有講了很多次真的沒有從來沒有從你們的件數從你們的這個裁罰的金額就知道完全沒有毫無嚇阻力 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5585.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5611.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以這樣的狀況下你要大家怎麼支持你們這些預算我真的認為我有時候我常不知道公平會到底在扮演什麼角色他到底有沒有展現出他該有的一個功能消費者有沒有確實被保護到全部去問一下啦國人好了啦有沒有感覺到公平會的功能有存在有沒有感覺到公平會有達到他的目的有沒有人知道公平會在做什麼恐怕是存在感最低的一個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5612.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5624.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那難道作為公平的主委跟委員們都沒有感覺嗎?所以我覺得這個問題真的是要主委好好去重視怎麼講都沒有用反正一年就來個兩三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5626.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5652.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
講過了之後結束就沒有了然後下次繼續再來同一個問題可以不斷的要求你們沒有意義所以我也強烈的要求必須要做簡略讓你知道立法院對這件事是憤怒的人民是憤怒的公平會再不有作為的話那公平會真的可以考慮看裁兵掉算了我不知道你們的存在目的為何乾脆跟消費者保護這個整併然後讓消費者保護來主導整個所有的工作說不定還比較有功能一點要不然我不知道公平會到底要幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5653.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5670.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我真的不知道公平到底能扮演什麼角色在面對的詐騙越來越多網路詐騙越來越多的時代與時俱進的時代的時候公平會有沒有跟著國家跟著人民一起往前走還是放任這樣的行為不斷的出現如果是主委或是委員的話我絕對看不下去了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5671.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5683.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我一直罰你一直罰你罰到你怕為止嘛我對平台覺得一直要求你嘛我怎麼可能容許你們做這樣的行為一直發生但是你們失誤無感好像跟你們沒有關係喔這不是我的業務喔這不是我的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5685.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5709.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
是不是你們的業務是不是你們範圍我做過了行政有積極行政跟消極行政嘛積極也可以作為消極也可以完全不作為嘛都沒有違法都合乎所有的嘛你們有沒有任何一個案件我不會看到訴願我沒有看到什麼樣的案件啊因為大家覺得反正你們處理都是最安全的問題嘛百分之百合乎你們完全但是你們有沒有更積極的去用積極行政角度去 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5710.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5711.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
接下來請張祺凱委員賴瑞龍委員跟陳廷輝委員都講得很 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5733.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5738.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
嚴正跟激動不過我是那個剛剛陳庭輝陳委員說減類10萬塊我是覺得少了一點我建議減類50萬重點除了剛剛委員們提醒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5746.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5770.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
公平會是個很重要的單位他當然也可以做太平官可是不要站在人民的這個碰到很多的問題公平會不應該只是保守友誼、積極性不足你從現在我們在討論這個限制建徵行為、產業獨佔結合跟聯合行為的調查我們翻開這個記錄看起來就是對啊就是說積極性就是不夠嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5771.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5793.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
然後計價就是不漲啊所以在人民的角度當然希望就是說透過一個監督跟檢列提醒也是要求公平會以後積極性要強一點點所以我的建議就是檢列50萬好還有沒有其他委員賴委員問一下我的建議也是檢列50萬我的提案裡面就是檢列50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5795.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5817.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
本席的提案是第25案對於這個不動產的不實廣告我們真的公平會要積極拿出態度來一輩子可能買一次房子而已就碰到這個詐騙那他以後的住的問題是怎麼辦這非常的嚴重所以我們希望我們公平會你有工具你有權力公權力你應該要保障我們人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5818.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5818.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
陳立法院委員陳立法院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5827.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5840.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我的案子是那個檢列10萬凍結3%所以再看主席怎麼處理好 那我們現在其他委員都已經詢問完畢的話我們現在就來處理第21案到32案我們就來檢列50萬凍結50萬提出報告經同意後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5856.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5876.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
來接下來我們處理33到35案抱歉就是剛才委員主席宣布了是不是科目容許我們自行調整好在21案到32案我們科目自行調整現在處理33案到35案來請賴樂隆委員好請先說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5887.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5905.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
主要是行政救濟的業務因為公民會有很多處罰我們會有一些行政訴訟強制執行那包括法規的研討我們法規會變的編撰等等以及研修法律需要做一些研究那這是以上是這個計畫那我就凍結5%了說明後再請解凍好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5912.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5942.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5945.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5963.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那我們就來請成立那邊委員我是認為這個一樣我覺得我要檢列我要檢列10萬然後凍結就尊重尊重那個主席好還有沒有其他委員沒有我們就來處理33案到35案這個我們凍結50萬檢列10萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5973.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5983.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
主席,是否容許我說明一下。好,請說明。這個計畫,最主要公平會的訴訟我們原則上都是自己打官司。那在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5984.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5984.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
請陳聶飛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6006.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6031.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
主席我覺得你們應該問說為什麼我們每次給你們這麼多的這樣的一個預算然後你們每次打官司都輸為什麼我們官司15以上我們勝訴率很高然後在重要的案子都輸重要案子都輸你像之前殺死的壟斷你們就輸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6035.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6036.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
為什麼大案子小案子都不會過 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6053.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6071.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
大案子才有指標性阿大案子的指標性才是有一個殺雞儆猴說我就是有決心可是怎麼會每一次你們自己去看阿我舉例好了我們現在大家消費者最關心的那個不當行銷阿在路上或者是問卷不當行銷我們花了2500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6073.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6098.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這是最高法案現在目前的訴訟我們也是得到勝訴所以所有不管是大案或小案公平會只要是做出處分我們都窮盡我們的攻擊防疫方法能夠得到勝訴那目前我們的勝訴也是非常高的我這一次我不簡略沒有我們希望你們要把在書面的當中把你們所有訴訟的勝訴敗訴案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6102.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6123.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
然後最長的部分列表給我們好,陳委員我們還是簡略啦不堅持簡略好,我們陳委員支持你們的預算啦所以33到35萬我們凍結50萬書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6127.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6142.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
來接下來我們處理36案到47案請先說明主要是我們辦理研討會還有中央地方跨機關合作另外國際競爭法的資料資訊的一些交流等等好說明完畢了這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6158.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6177.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
請問委員張棋台委員、陳林飛委員、楊瓊逸委員、賴樂隆委員這部分這個綜合規劃跟這個宣傳宣傳業務的這個先導費用我比較有意見的是兩個一個還是剛剛那個延續剛剛那個就是那個主動積極面不夠所以你做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6179.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6194.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
老蔣能夠宣傳真的也有限這是一個問題為什麼需要那麼多的錢去宣傳這是一個那第二個現在都是一個電子通信跟那個媒體的這個平臺平臺啦你都透過這個去發這個宣傳就好了不用再花這麼多錢所以我本來提議這個要減類減類100萬那我當然知道這個金額可能對 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6201.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6208.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
公平位可能會接的負擔太重或許我可以把這個減內變成是凍結或者是刪少一點好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6210.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6210.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
陳莉菲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6232.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6232.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
楊俊逸委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6248.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6268.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
謝謝本席的提案是38案針對於公平交易業務綜合規劃及宣傳業務的部分本席是簡略10%那等於是簡略20萬那我真的要很語重心長的要給主委所領軍的團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6270.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6293.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
因為其實大家看似公平會沒有說很重要但是其實它是政府裡頭非常重要的單位而且它是獨立機關單位而且它是人民生活非常息息相關你給它想喔 新竹的 新鴻雅廟外面的大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6297.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6324.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
5塊、10塊你自己說聯合壟斷影響到他多少的商圈他的生意這一點最後你們說我用規勸我沒有處罰可是傷害已經造成那這個相對也就是到底我們公平會站的立場是什麼我們一直告訴你富平打跟這個烏貝利你到底什麼時候要宣布準博呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6327.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6339.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
民眾快要過年了 很緊張針對這個案子你突然間 病醫生說醫法可以延長兩個月你們就到3月21嘛 是不是讓人民怎麼過年啊為什麼要如此我們盡我們的本分啊勞動部已經告訴你他們不同意合併啊已經告訴你了勞動部已經告訴你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6354.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6368.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
財政部也表示他們的意見那你們說你要廣收資料我們到底訊息正不正確訊息告訴我們說你們延長的理由是說要去看他的市佔率 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6370.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6386.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
如果是這樣子 那我們人民真的很恐慌欸如果到現在連我們公平會要審查的委員都不知道負騙打跟Uber Eats他們的市佔率是多少那你難道沒住在台灣嗎?不了解這個情況嗎?這個讓我真的很訝異 很訝異 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6394.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6401.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以主席我認為公平會呢必須要嚴謹去面對所以38我提前列20萬 請任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6406.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6426.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好我想這個部分是中國規劃跟宣導的業務然後同樣還是回到目的宣導的目的何在宣導要做什麼用那我認為現在公平會最需要面對的就是包括剛剛提到幾個議題甚至於我認為網路詐騙平台詐騙的部分怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6427.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6430.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算及附屬單位預算及附屬單位預算及附屬單位預算及附屬單位預算及附屬單位預算及 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6450.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6477.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
好 請出示委員事實上 我有點感覺就是說我們要求公平會能夠要做得更好事實上你們也可以做得更好但是這個預算實在是不多啦我又怕這個今天你們預算你們說立法院不支持我們預算我們能力有限資源有限不能做更多事情我又怕你又把球丟給我們所以預算我基本上支持但是要如何要求你們能夠做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6478.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6503.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
做到符合大家的期待顯然啊不符合這個經濟委員會所有的期待我們是代表民意啊而且代表說民意對於公平會的表現還覺得不夠滿意希望能夠更提升那我覺得既然預算已經夠少啦那我覺得還是要讓你們有足夠的預算可以做更多的事情但是凍結是一定要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6504.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6505.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個預算就200而已啦好接下來還有哪位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6535.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6555.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
本期的是第40案因為我們針對於多層次的傳銷工作現在從許可字已經改為報備字了讓很多的傳銷的合格資格我們要為了避免衍生出吸金的手段讓我們民眾受到詐騙之苦我們希望公平會更要拿出更積極的態度來執行它的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6558.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6566.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所以如果沒有其他委員的意見的話我們第36案到47案我們現在就來處理全案我們凍結50萬減列20萬科目可以自調接下來我們處理第48案到50案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6582.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6582.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
賴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6610.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6624.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個部分可不可以請主委再更清楚說明你們參加這些會議的話過去有得到什麼樣的成果跟未來給你們這些預算的時候你們預定達到什麼成果我決定好了今年的6月還有今年的11月我們辦了國際競爭網絡的研討會 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6627.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6642.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
全世界競爭法國家將近100個國家的競爭機關來台灣那我們對於這樣的一個國際事務第一個增加台灣在競爭法的一個主導的立場那第一方面在國際交流彼此交換信息也是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6644.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6668.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我主要提一下競爭法上面這些都是但是我看到國際上面大家的很多趨勢我認為有時候臺灣的公平會反倒是落後在人家後面就是說不管在公平跟消護保護的有些人早就很整病了然後我們好像也沒什麼動作然後對於這個剛剛大家都提到的這個網路平台這件事情包括網路的這個外送的 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6668.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6691.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
人家早就有很明確的一些方向了然後我們的處理還是落在人家後面還讓立委們跟民眾們要很擔憂到底公平會會不會做出讓大家很誇張而無法理解的一個決定就是說包括甚至於在網路詐騙10月各國早就已經公平各世界各國的公平單位對於詐騙早就有很多積極的一些作為然後我們的公平會還這樣就是說我不知道你們開這些目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6692.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6711.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
來邀請世界各國來看台灣在關鍵的議題上面如何落後大家嗎就是我完全不懂你們談這些議題例行性的開會然後大家討論得很開心這個這個我沒有什麼特別意見但是關鍵性的幾個議題全世界在關注的議題你們能不能跟上這些時代的趨勢你們能不能聽到國外好的意見然後採納人家好的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6712.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6734.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我現在看不到所以我不知道這個預算要怎麼支持我們這個預算不只是人進來我們也包括我們的同仁走出去那在國際交流部分是非常重要的一環因為所有的企業都是國際化所以剛才委員提到的結合各方面這其實都是我們在討論的我瞭解主委走出去很重要我知道啦但走出去又把什麼東西帶回來這更重要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6737.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6762.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我希望在剛剛提到幾個議題上面你們要跟上國際的目前的主流的一些趨勢嘛比如說剛剛講到的大家對於外送平台的部分的態度那我們到底有沒有跟上去就至少我們沒有要求要領先但是要跟上去嘛不要全世界會發現台灣在這件事情上面跟大家落差很大包括講到了網路的詐騙網路這件事情全世界早就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6763.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6774.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
所謂的公平會不管是韓國的公平會其他世界各國公平會早就正式積極在面對這些問題很積極處理修法甚至很積極的用各種行政手段介入在處理讓我們的公平會這麼的消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6775.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6800.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
包括所有講到這些問題我感受不到我們的公平會的人把這些人邀來的到底我們得到了什麼東西跟我們出去得到什麼你要告訴我們給你們這筆錢之後你們會怎麼樣與時俱進的達到這些效果那大家人民才會覺得我們把錢給公平花這個錢是有意義的那如果你們只是例行性的還是開研討會研討會很多可以開啊開不完的研討會啊人也可以送出去啊好多都可以送啊但是得到了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6801.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6828.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我認為如果公平會不能跟人民與時俱進不能跟國家與時俱進的話你這些經費要大家怎麼支持這最大的問題好請楊全英委員謝謝主席楊全英發言針對這個跟國際交流我們當然是支持你今年這個ICM的部分你是在今年就是上個月上個月的11月13到15 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6829.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6832.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
中央政府總預算案關於公平交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6846.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6859.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
來開會的這個部分不管人進來還是人出去那你今年那個明年度114年度的預算是增加將近快4000萬你增加了比今年113年增加了3900 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6861.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6864.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
本席請教明年編列的48至50項項目有1201項目還有ICN研討700萬項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6885.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6899.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
但是我本期要請教您預估的是在明年的5月份5月7號到9號你告訴我們的是這樣子嗎明年114年2025年5月7號到9號要辦理這個年會的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6907.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6927.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
但是目前我們看到的國際組織裡頭的發布他只有發布愛丁堡會在愛丁堡來舉辦2025年年會的這個項目我們目前看不到目前看不到這個單位針對於其他研討會的活動訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6929.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6944.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
到底是真的假的我現在聽到這個訊息你目前為止得到了這個訊息嗎來請做說明因為你這個預算大概是在半年前所變那所以我們看到到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6945.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6960.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
他們所發布的只有說愛丁堡在明年的這個5月份呢這個5月的7號到9號要舉行在愛丁堡但是西向跟其他的國家都沒有那這個情況到底是怎麼回事呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6961.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6989.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我跟委員說明一下ICN是一個很重要的國際競爭網絡一個國際性的競爭法的組織那他的這個集合是所有的競爭法主管機關會聚集的那你剛剛提到的明年已經確定了因為我們已經他整個年度計畫會辦什麼活動我們在上個禮拜已經收到了我是在上個禮拜收到嗎我上禮拜有收到他會把整年的計畫有收到5月7號到9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6990.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7013.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那我再更正一下剛剛我說的說你明年度的針對這個部分是加了300多萬398萬就是這個國際的這個部分你的預算是比今年度增加所以我更正剛剛數字看錯那另外就是說你是在昨天收到嗎 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7014.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7028.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
是上個禮拜五有收到就是ICN的這個主席有給所有會員相關的年度計畫那這比較重要的就是一年一度的年會是在明年的5月7號到9號那我們占了什麼角色呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7030.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7048.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
例如說我去年我就在那因為你預算有增加例如說去年我親自去當我強調說國際接軌我們是支持但是我們也希望增加這個將近400萬的這個年度預算裡頭那你在這個明年度5月份要參加的時候到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7049.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7052.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
你的內容是跟今年一樣還是有在做提問? |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7052.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7066.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
ICN是針對每年發生的重要的競爭議題討論那像我去年我親自參加我就在那個大會有一兩百個會員的國家去發表演說來處理就是去分享台灣的執法經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7068.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7095.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
明年還會再發表演說嗎?因為這個演說很多首長在爭取我們去年很成功的爭取到我上去報告那明年呢?預算是增加你更應該要上來就是說我們能夠去曝光能夠去分享我們台灣執法經驗的機會我們都積極在爭取那是不是能夠爭取到我們要看它整個大會報告的情形因為爭取去報告的國家是相當踴躍 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7097.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7120.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們要加油因為本期看到預算也增加我們也希望就是說到底你接到了這個訊息了沒有因為很快5月份等於5個月的時間所以這個本來就是超前部署的事項 對不對我還有一個建議就是說其實公平會可以給國家很大的信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7121.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7134.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
像比如說你明年也接受到了那你今天在報告當中就應該告訴我們而不要讓我們再去問你你懂嗎?這樣子會讓大家更有信心對這個國家有信心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7135 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7155.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
是不是?因為我們觀光剛剛我本行非常在意的我不會跟副編打你什麼時候要告訴我們準播我希望待會結束前你可以告訴我們好不好?謝謝 請內陸董委員好 我具體建議因為經費上是有增加的我具體建議就三五十動五十提出書面報告再行解凍三五十萬動五十萬然後提書面報告再行解凍好 請陳金飛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7162.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7162.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員會主管委員會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7181.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7192.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
是不是容許我建議委員因為這租賄預算這個經費齁都是照時這樣編列如果有簡列的話可能在執行上會有點困難是不是可以同意凍結就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7194.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7223.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
拜委員你們能夠確保你們能夠達到什麼樣的成果啦我當然可以改成我可以改成動100但是我希望看到的是你們的執行成果是符合人民的期待的除了既有你們要做的事情外我也看到希望把更多好的意見帶回來然後同時成為你們的政策成為法令這個才有意義啦不然花這麼多錢我不知道我們的國際交流其實各國都是在這個場域去把最近大家發生什麼案例彼此請公平會讓國人更有信心好不好那我同意就改動解100 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7224.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7253.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我是希望說在這個凍結書面報告裡面吧我們到底做了哪些交流然後交流的目的在哪裡到底我們現在重要在談的這些公平會相關的業務我們的重點擺在哪裡一定有一些重點嘛不可能沒有啊這些重點在哪裡那為什麼要這個國際交流那國際交流之後我們得到的又是什麼的一個資訊跟我們的啟發這比較重要吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7256.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7277.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
本期是建議我們做一個主決議吧因為公平會也不理我們連他接到國際邀請也不講那你們在國際這個上面有怎麼樣發光發熱也應該讓國人知道嗎你們怎麼做事情都不講呢很奇怪該講的不講不該講的偏偏一直講 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7278.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7294.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以我是說我們是不是各位同仁也同意國際交流的部分就做一個主決議將你們去國際交流的這個成果方向必須要跟國人報告也送一份給經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7296.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7318.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我補充一下老師把這五年來的國際交流的成果全部一份報告送給經濟委員會各委員好嗎就是這五年來的交流成果出去外面的交流跟到台灣來的交流成果全部一份報告給我們同意好那現在我們第48案到50案我們請公平會趕快領一個主決議給我們那在這48到50案我們就凍結100萬好經同意後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7326.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7348.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為要看你的主決意怎麼寫接下來我們處理51案到58案請說明51、58主要是我們的資訊業務跟經濟分析我們做各種競爭法的執法要對市場結構還有產業的整個資訊要做經濟分析所以主要是用在這一部分另外也有我們內部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7350.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7351.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
請委員支持請委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7367.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7385.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
謝謝主席楊卿發言楊卿所提是51案這個部分我減列10%也就是減列54萬5千7百塊那我可以成為減列50萬這個理由是什麼呢我還是回歸復編達跟UberEats |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7387.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7387.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
請內委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7413.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7420.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我認為公平會內各單位都應該重視我們剛剛提出來這些問題不是單一主委重視或委員重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7421.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7422.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好其他委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7448.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7453.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
本席的提案是第55案那針對我們這個前面講了很多就是我們的公平會面去嚴格去執行讓不管是我們的外送平台還是隨不時的廣告都沒有辦法去解決這個有效去執行他的工作讓整個資訊產業的系統上都沒有有效能的來做一個分析在這方面的話我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7477.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7495.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
公平會應該要提高你的工作效率而且請主委你的底下這麼多屬下的工作上應該有很多的方面都可以去方方面面可以執行的部分希望你要去嚴格監督去執行到最底層好不好好那請主委說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7495.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7522.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那因為這個計畫是完全是用在資訊系統的建置包括治安的維護那這個網站的服務品質還有舊系統的更新這其實是在整個行政系統政府部門資訊系統的費用是很重要的一環所以是不是建議委員能夠不要檢驗因為這是要做產業調查分析要做網站、治安各方面的維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7524.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7524.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7545.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7572.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你不要拐我們啊你這個項目有兩個一個資訊業務以及經濟分析產業資料管理啊對不對你千萬不要說我的預算比較少我們不用又去要用比較的你連你們有成績你們都不拿出來我還給你鼓勵你們應該要給國人知道給大家拍拍手對不對那如果連這個你還有意見要不要審這份預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7573.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7573.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
請內委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7600.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7629.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我的看法是說你的這些案件的部分其實績效上是看的是越來越那個了那你如果要做這些經費你也要告訴我們那到底你要更新什麼你要做什麼樣的事務為什麼會影響到那另外我講到這件事情上面我還是想到全公平會內部大家都是一樣的都應該重視這個問題你的資訊相關的一些資訊業務跟你的經濟分析到底有沒有符合到你現在主要大家人民關係的項目上 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7629.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7656.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
還是你都只是在做你例行性的一些事務我認為除了例行性以外你要更加重你的力氣跟資源在我們大家人民所關心的事務上這樣才達到目的啦不是除了在那邊一直被罵或者是委員們一直被罵然後各出事沒有什麼問題我認為要大家一起共同來解決這個問題所以我還是建議要著以刪減跟凍結好請陳立飛委員主委其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7657.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7672.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我看齁,審過那麼多的單位齁公平會應該是被意見最多的為什麼?因為大家覺得說公平會的功能完全沒有彰顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7673.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7690.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
你原本你是要跟消費者跟民眾站在一起可是你並沒有凸顯到這樣的一個態勢出來所以原本這個資訊大家會擔心啊你們的資訊是不是落後了你們的資訊是不是能夠與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7693.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7720.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以這些錢給你們你們真的有發揮到你們可以幫忙民眾去發聲甚至去幫民眾去伸張正義的一個角度嗎?如果公平會沒有這樣的一個態度難怪有一些不肖的業者會越來越猖狂然後當他們越來越猖狂受害是誰?消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7722.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7747.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以這是我們現在為什麼今天說的委員會認為你公平會實在是應該要大整頓當時候主委來你不是就是這樣子給大家期待嗎你講的當時候在說你來到我們公平會你怎麼樣的一個期待跟期許你也講的非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7749 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7777.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
給大家很多的希望可是你進到這個單位以來為什麼給大家看到的是你反而是被這個單位的舊成科全部去改變而不是你改變公平會所以我認為說今天如果沒有檢列沒有凍結的話好像你們覺得反正就是這樣子啊然後黃一黃就過了啊然後再質詢被講一講就過了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7779.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7795.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
主委認為應該要檢列也要凍結好,現在我也沒有意見欸,前面的主決議好了嗎?好好,那我們就來處理51案到58案我們全案凍結50萬、檢列50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7799.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7825.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
委員我說明一下因為剛才委員關心這個資訊系統到底在做哪一些那首先有謝謝各位委員對我個人的期許那事實上這4年這4年來我們對於整個查處的動作不管是不動產不動產的不實廣告以及聯合結合行為其實我有都會督促同仁努力去查處那過去也確實有一些重大案件都是在我們努力之下有去完成那這裡說 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7828.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7835.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
資訊系統要做的業務我們再跟回答楊委員報告委員那資訊系統的經費事實上是佔這項經費的90%所以這項經費大部分都是在做後勤的資訊系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7843.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7849.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
包括資安的提升、系統的更新、相關設備機房的恢復、同時更換電腦、構置相關軟硬體、小軟體。這個經費是非常的緊縮,資訊經費的部分只有500萬左右,如果簡略 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7859.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7860.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
委員會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7876.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7877.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
請勿模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7894.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7916.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那凍結數可以提高一點沒關係這個部分真的非常的緊縮因為我們所有的資訊經費也都要先報到行政院主席總書做治安的統一審核這個經費來講的話在各部會來講是非常的緊縮的能不能真的拜託主席跟各位委員真的是非常的緊這個別的項目可能很難講那資訊業務真的這個500萬的資訊業務對公平會來講是非常重要的拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7924.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7928.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
好我們現在就51案到58案我們凍結80萬減劣30萬好現在我們來處理主決議那客戶我們自己 客戶自調好主決議第59案遵照辦理通過第60案 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7954.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7977.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7989.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8006.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
66之一案請公平會就近5年內國際交流重點及成果提出書面報告送立法院經濟委員會及各委員會辦公室簽讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8013.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8013.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
主席66支議案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8042.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8065.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
現在我們休息五分鐘那個主席我可不可以再要休息以前我再講一下那個主委能不能待會告訴我們你那個什麼時候準博你那個日期大概會在什麼時候你講一個3月21日會有沒有可能提早我想要聽到這個訊息因為你之前本期在經濟委員會在我們這個委員會跟你討論你跟我講 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8071.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8090.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
希望愛在你的認知到底以前你會努力那你現在又弄一個3月21號那到底是怎麼回事那我現在退而求其次會不會在你宣布的3月21號提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8093.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8106.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
因為沒有一個這個案子這麼重大全國都在注意而且你自己的橫向的部會政府的部會都已經很清楚的告訴你他們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8107.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8124.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那你這個托我也不希望大家認為是為了你的人事權來卡關我覺得我也不希望你這樣被污衊啊 對不對那你公然也在經濟委員會也告訴我也不只告訴我告訴我們其他的委員啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8125.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8142.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你表示你的負責任啊那什麼理由會讓你轉這麼大的彎呢而且還要製造社會大眾對你的質疑我覺得行政部門不該如此吧對不對到底有什麼貓膩在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8145.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8170.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我當然不希望你被誣衊嘛但是你的這個責任跟你的在之前我們覺得非常有但是當你宣布之後人事案提出之後你宣布如此讓我們不知所措所以我希望大家可以聽到你的方向好 謝謝委員我等一下可以跟各位再做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8174.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8175.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
謝謝,現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8490.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8515.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
繼續開會現在來審查114年度反托斯拉基金預算提案請李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8521.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8530.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
主席 我先補充一下主席 你要發言以前 我要告訴你為什麼我一直很堅持希望知道因為我們影響到將近15萬的外送員 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8537.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8554.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
的一個權益也影響到十幾萬家的電商也影響到我們整個社會對公平會的一個信賴度所以我真的希望陳如你之前所說的這個方向請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8555.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8582.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
謝謝委員給我機會我再講清楚一點我們的結合案件文件齊備後算30天如果沒有做決定就是自動就准的意思就是它就可以結合了所以這個期限是在12月19日那我們對於結合的申請案一方面聽社會的意見一方面也要給參與結合事業復本達跟烏貝易也要說明的機會那因為它是在總部是在國外所以它 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8582.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8605.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我們跟他聯繫的結果最早能夠到台灣說明的時間是12月17日17日離19日只有兩天那當然公平會要先言再說17日到19日只有兩天如果我們沒有言19日可能就過了你這個說法我跟你補充我們從3月份就開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8606.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8635.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
而不是等到12月17日如果你以12月對阿如果你以12月17號他們才來我等他才來我們的時間點半年是在12月19你以這個理由來作為準伯延後我不認同我們一直在跟你說從3月份民間一直在講民間一直在講你隔了半年所以我也不去追究之前到底怎麼回事我還是希望聽到答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8637.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8658.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
委員我們文件齊備這當中要聽各界的意見那各界的意見的整合到11月我們也要讓副編大哥伊貝爾說我們外界有這麼多人在關心你怎麼說所以沒有辦法說他一申請我就請他來表示意見一定是把所有公平會收集好的資料所有的疑問 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8659.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8670.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
最後請他來表示意見那這件事17號17號離19號只有兩天如果作業時間來不及他就結合去了所以我們先再一次跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8671.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8691.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我再一次跟你說如果你以這個理由只有兩天所以我才來延長準播我告訴你已經告訴你了這個我們沒有辦法接受因為之前從3月份民間一直到5月正式一直到你資料11月啊所以你不要再誤導社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8692.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8692.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
主委 而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8712.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8732.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
而且就是說你如果延期也不應該延到這麼長啊是不是應該延到你這一任的任期一月底以前因為你沒有必要做這麼就是說延到這麼長那會讓人家認為說你是不是為了說下一任的任期你要說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8733.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8733.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
好 謝謝主委 我們拭目以待 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8751.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8779.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在你借期借滿錢告訴我們答案準博與否謝謝我會努力努力在任期借滿錢去促成這件事但是還要看委員會討論的情形謝謝我這個答案我們回看這個答案可以了好主委就是要清楚的答覆委員委員就會全力支持好等會你的說明盡量朝這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8781.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8788.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
好,我們現在來處理那個反托斯拉基金的預算在第67到70案我們併案來,請先說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8793.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8817.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
反托拉斯基金計畫最主要是我們辦理檢舉違法聯合就是聯合行為的檢舉獎金這是第一個第二個我們是推動國際競爭法這個資料庫資料庫的建置還有執法機關的合作那最主要是在這幾個業務方面有需要這樣的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8823.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8845.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們請陳昌明委員李主委今天主要是反托拉斯基金但是我看來看去我有些看不懂要跟你請教那是為經濟的競爭政策這個我了解的研究但是你裡面有提到倡議的計畫什麼叫倡議的計畫你倡議的內容是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8851.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8868.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
創意就是一個宣導齁然後在競爭法的這些業務方面去廣為周知最主要是做這樣的業務我這樣還聽不懂你創意需要創意什麼你的主題在哪裡你給我講一下我給你了解一下不然這樣三天不算什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8872.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8873.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
為什麼問這個問題?因為我覺得怪怪的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8895.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8921.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們臺美二十四季貿易倡議他用一個貿易倡議這個名詞我就覺得怪怪的好像隱藏了什麼那現在通過五項通過五項裡面最重要有一點服務業國內的規章服務業國內的規章包括你托拉斯是獨佔結合聯合的選舉決止限制的競爭的一個選委賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8923.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8925.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
委員會主管：反托拉斯基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8944.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8965.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
台灣應該把他收的錢你們結果變成一個投資我現在啊我跟你講我會怕這個啦因為我怎麼不敢不怎麼敢相信你們公平交易委員會世界各國都把他們溝通的事情都把他限制都已經把他處罰了都取得賠償款可能偉大的台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8968.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8989.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
說沒有關係你這個賠償我可以當作 那個這邊的投資來算我阿伯你嫁到我也來台灣投資一下 你就不會給我發壓嘛所以我為什麼是聯想到這樣每一個委員都很關心 抵德黨那外國大國的那個壓力跟誘惑嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8990.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9005.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我真的大家都很懷疑啦所謂每個委員都在關於這個你也趕快做一個決定啦阿你剛剛講說什麼退休我聽不懂因為嘿他們講說退休以前會把這個事情你有那麼早那麼退休嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9007.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9027.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我的任期是到明年的1月31日那是我們還沒投票的一個 阿如果我們投票你通過的話 仍然可以繼續阿還是 阿不然我不知道你說你退休以前我這樣什麼都沒有因為因為31是任期 任期到齁 那是我續任還要各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9029.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9048.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們要有擔當的作為大家都很怕兩個結尾下來獨佔台灣好不好我是講的很真心的話不要像以前高通的案件一樣把你們應該懲罰的賠償你們把它改為投資案世界上唯一這個台灣的政府才這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9051.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9057.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
實在很讓人遺憾、氣硬我一直強調區域公園業的一年預算才200多億、230幾億你切個乘以30就210億我們把公園業一年的預算給高通去到處去挖角 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9068.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9068.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
請問秋瑩委員你有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9097.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9121.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
改成主決議是第70案改主決議好本期的提案是69案這個我們要強化反托拉斯這個執行的這個計畫在這個績效上我們看到有兩項分別是聯合行為的調查還有個每年參加反托拉斯的這個整個宣傳活動的人數這些兩項指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9123.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9132.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
的經費但是我們看到整個整體的預算他並沒有凸顯出這個整個績效的指標性所以有必要性要來做個調整請請主委回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9140.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9161.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這個計畫除了這個檢舉獎金以外我們其實還包括建置一些競爭法的資料庫國際的執法經驗以及國際的有關於執行競爭的一些資料我們需要建置一些資料庫那才能夠跟國際接軌那我想這是在整個執行執法所必要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9162.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9191.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
可是你的整個調查的聯合辦的調查案件結案數只有50件那你宣傳活動人大概300人次而已啦但是你整體的這個預算11.31%的部分在這裡面的在有這個站在這裡面的執行計畫所以整個績效是沒有完整的來呈現出來我們的宣導應該各地都有宣導不管在國內或國外這個用到的需求是說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9193.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9222.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
報告委員這一部分的那個績效指標是我們在整個案這個用到反托拉斯基金裡面所做的一些宣導那其實我們在其他活動裡面也有做很多的宣導那這個反托拉斯的宣導是特別針對說國際性的一些反托拉斯案件介紹給國內的業者知道說以免他們到國際上去做生意的時候會違反國家其他國家的反托拉斯法所以那個部分是放300個人當作我們的指標來當作一個努力的方向他的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9224.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9224.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
主席是 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9256.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9281.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
第71也是在反托拉斯裡面的一個計畫就是我們針對執法針對守法做一些宣導跟廣宣那72是我們做一些補助譬如說我們學生的論文補助在反托拉斯的部分在跟競爭法有關的論文予以補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9285.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9299.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
本來是我們直接是審71跟72是不一樣的案子那諸位一起解釋了那71案是張家俊委員的提案我們就照列72案72案我們預算也照列好那我們現在處理是73案到78案 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9320.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9347.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
80是研究數位競爭的議題那也包括我們購置國內外的研究報告另外還有不實廣告的監控跟查處請委員支持好主席我的是77案我改成主決議好77案7委員改成主決議那本席的提案是第80案這個80案的話我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9349.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9355.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
70案為主決議,其他的預算我們照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9369.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9387.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
接下來是79-80案請說明79-80就是我剛剛也提到就是我們在數位時代下一些不實廣告的查處因應數位經濟下的廣告的查處那我們主要是在網路上監控等等有一些需要的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9389.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9389.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9411.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9412.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
主委有沒有進一步的說明我想謝謝委員的期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9442.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9443.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
7月9日至8月20日 凍結100萬 書面報告 使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9457.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9477.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
現在我們就來處理主決議主決議的第81案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過第82案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過第83案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過第84案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過第85案 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9479.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9497.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟委員會第1屆第2會期經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9503.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9513.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
第85案專案報告改成書面報告文字修正通過請先讀協商結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9515.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9535.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
第一案預算照列本案改為主決議第二案預算照列本案改為主決議第三案預算照列本案改為主決議第四至二十案凍結一百萬元提出書面報告經同意後使得凍資其中第十案十一案十二案均改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9537.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9555.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
第二十一至三十二案簡列五十萬元科目自行調整令凍結五十萬元提出書面報告經同意後使得動之第三十三至三十五案凍結五十萬元提出書面報告後使得動之第三十六至四十七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9556.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9568.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
簡略20萬元科目自行調整令凍結50萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資第48至50案凍結100萬元提出書面報告經同意後使得凍資第51至58案簡略30萬元科目自行調整令凍結80萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9580.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9589.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
主決議部分59案到66案及新增66至1案均照案通過第67至70案凍結200萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資其中70案改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9595.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9618.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
第71案預算照列第72案預算照列第73至78案預算照列其中77案改為主決議第79、80案凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資主決議部分81至84案照案通過85案修正通過宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9621.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9646.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
請問各位同仁有沒有委員的提案部分剛才在宣讀的協商結論通過沒有提案的部分均照列或是隨同調整請請問有無異議沒有異議好通過沒有異議通過那本次通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9649.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9659.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
114年度公平會單位預算及反托拉斯基金均審查完整本日議程處理完整12月25日繼續開會現在休息 |