| IVOD_ID |
163995 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163995 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-09T12:43:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-09T12:57:44+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0913948005eacb62f9459bc8765de013819c05f3ca7f3b915dd0128aa318ab8eaa5b8daa13db02115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:43:48 - 12:57:44 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「因關稅造成我國市場就業及勞動環境衝擊之影響及因應對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【10月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
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憲國委員發言謝謝主席有請部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.817 |
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劉仁好部長好部長可以看一下這是勞動部網站這個勞僱雙方協商減少工時實施人數的統計的頁面然後最主要是這樣這個實施無薪假的加速從5月中148家到現在9月底已經攀升到398家這是你們的統計表 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.713 |
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那人數也從5月中2,664人一直到9月底是8,505人也就是說等於5月中到9月底實施減班的休息加速暴增2.7倍 |
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55.339 |
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80.935 |
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然後實施人數更急增到3.2倍這數字應該沒有錯嘛然後我在一樣在這個委員會是在6月4號的時候我特別有這個提醒部長當時這個無薪假的加數155加然後人數是2831人我希望部長可能要趕快的及早應應那個時候那個時候部長也特別有回應我有幾個事情嘛那我們等一下來討論 |
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82.136 |
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88.552 |
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然後 但是到目前為止 這個五金加人數已經來到8505人會不會很快就突破一萬大關 |
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90.96 |
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112.598 |
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我們的確是要做這個減慢休息數字會再增加的這樣子的相關的準確所以說會很快喔如果部長這樣答覆我的感覺就是很快會突破到一萬大關嘛對不對好那我們就是要再快速的因應還有相關的你們之前所提出來就是說雇用安定的措施嘛然後還有這個充電再出發訓練的計畫 |
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114.56 |
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那我當時是特別提到說當時在6月的時候有申請僱用安定措施減30家然後申請充電再出發訓練計畫也只有7家顯示這兩項的計畫成效不髒嘛然後對企業或是勞工不具吸引力 |
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134.98 |
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我希望部長快速的因應之後是我可以在申請的比例到六月底前能不能提高到五成那顯然啦 現在看勞動部提供出來給我們的資料是這樣到十月的時候是申請僱用安定措施是223家有超過五成 58%申請充電再出發訓練計畫86家 只有兩成多 |
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161.723 |
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我們如果再談到這個人數充電站出發僅515人那對照人數只有6%這個是有問題的吧跟劉委員說明的確過去在相關的計畫裡面比較像是我如果講比較直白是以充電站出發為主因為他的這個 |
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187.926 |
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209.263 |
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範圍比較寬那雇用安定措施的範圍能夠適用的行業比較窄那我們的確現在在這一次關稅衝擊我們把它我做了重新的設定我們現在是希望先以雇用安定措施為主因為他是直接的薪資的差額補貼因為的確會有一些廠商他現在受到關稅衝擊他說他他現在不一定有能力或不一定有意願來辦訓 |
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211.604 |
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234.939 |
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所以我們也考慮到這個部分所以我們其實現在是以公安令措施為主那充電再出發的計畫為輔但是讓他可以兩個併領他不用二則一因為以前只能二則一現在不用二則一他可以併領所以的確在這樣子的我們的優先順序的調整後看到強化版的公安令措施他的這個申請的比率是有蠻大幅的增加應該部長導護我的意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.258 |
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269.275 |
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僱用安定措施比較窄啦過去比較窄過去比較窄但是我們在8月以後蠻大幅的放寬所以我們現在其實是以僱用安定措施作為支持減慢休息勞工尤其是他的經濟收入最主要的計畫會是放在僱用安定措施裡面因為他不用參訊 不用辦訊他的程序上面更加的簡便但過去是比較窄的然後反而是充電站出發是比較寬的比較寬嘛 對不對所以我們把它顛倒過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.714 |
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290.24 |
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但是你比較寬的緩額申請的加速才佔的21%然後比較窄的緩額可以達到5成8因為原本郭安寧措施只有3個行業現在我們把它放寬到9個行業是啊 所以你們是禮拜二宣布的嘛 對不對在充電計畫這個勞工參選及企業辦訓的相關規定鬆綁是禮拜二然後換寬是回溯到8月一定啟用嘛都沒有錯嘛 對不對 |
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299.203 |
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324.154 |
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你會不會覺得六月底到現在好像比較慢一點然後放寬規定之後你們有沒有預估到十一月可以突破到五成嗎我覺得可能沒有辦法一下通到那麼快啦可是我們希望盡量的放寬可是的確現在是我說給勞工的經濟知識是這個在充電器的話如果參與比例還拉不起來這真的就表示不太好用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.117 |
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339.57 |
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因為他要辦訊我知道啊那你辦訊現在也沒有也把那個取消企業辦理的課程最低人數都取消掉了嘛所以真的是放得很寬嘛啊你放得很寬然後還是拉不上來那就真的有問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.89 |
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368.638 |
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我的潛艦嘛 對不對 給你們做參考嘛我們現在把它設定是 它是一個輔助性的啦 對你看喔 你雇用安定措施雖然是58%啦齁 但是當時我是要求部長說六月底是不是可以達到五成嘛那現在是十月捏 還是一樣五成八捏然後在八月十三的時候 老東部你們還公告喔叫做強化版雇用安定措施 強化版喔擴大適用對象 補助金額增加然後補貼併領並不衝突嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.384 |
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389.652 |
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我跟委員報告因為顧問安定措施基本上他會有一個要他要減半休息30天的這個制度上設計是要減半休息30天所以我們有去了解其實現在有蠻多還沒提出申請的他可能原因是他減半休息還未滿30日 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.993 |
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407.667 |
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那或者是他有一些英倍的文件還沒被起比方他的薪資單沒被起也有一些企業是因為他不一定每個月每個月來申請他可以是一次申請三個月所以他可能會在之後再來去回溯前面的三個月那我們有去跟他瞭解那他目前還沒來提出來申請的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
408.727 |
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如果部長這個事情如果我們要做快速運營其實我們都可以按計來討論嘛那時候我們是希望到6月底兩個計畫都可以突破到五成嘛對不對那你們8月份的時候去做一個放寬做一些調整嘛甚至叫做強化版嘛那我們當然也是可以說6到9那9到11一個週期大家來檢討到時候還是一樣拿不起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.984 |
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456.372 |
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那顯然就是很大的一個改善的硬硬的空間嘛這樣好不好不然這兩個計畫我覺得部長還是署都覺得是應該是可以協助勞工協助企業的但是好像這樣的成效看起來就是應該沒辦法達到你的標準啦簡單講是這樣啦好不好也應該沒有辦法達到署長的標準啦我目前是請我們分署盡量都是主動去問 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
477.857 |
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你有資格申請就請你來申請我們其實都是主動不是被動等待的好啦我們就11月份的時候再來追部長還是請部長這邊可以就直接來跟委員會做一個說明跟報告看執行的狀況怎麼樣跟廖少偉講也可以跟我講也可以我們都可以再來討論好 署長你們請回啦這個我再請教部長署長可以請回了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你沒繼續站也沒有關係喔陪著部長不錯好同島一命啦齁那全台一心救花蓮這花蓮的災害看起來就像昨天我推行部長的這個事情不是只有這個因為呃展現出這樣的愛心然後放棄自己的呃這個這個可以賺錢的機會然後投入在這個災區然後導致這個生命的喪失很多很多事情都是讓我們都非常感動跟動容的啦齁那那你看齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
525.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個濁漿的妝 背著包包然後在那麼酷熱的40度底下再挖再挖 再清不然我自己流氣啦這塊頭上真的站不住了真的是站不住 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
529.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你在身體力壯的年輕小伙子甚至阿兵哥你看阿兵哥都穿長袖的他不是要防曬因為他必須要著的這個制服那其他人幾乎幾乎幾乎反正我很難去形容那個地方而且那個粉塵非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那非常枯熱然後車輛的行駛又特別多雖然都已經有管制了那是一車一車一車這樣再進然後一車一車再出來然後還有這個搬運這個污泥的搬運很多的物資的車輛來來回回其實一般人在那個地方站一個鐘頭可能就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
592.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
都沒了啦 然後況且還在那邊挖啦那我是要特別提醒啦 特別提醒縱暑如果沒有及時降溫啦會導致器官衰竭 甚至於死亡這是醫界一直在講的所以熱傷害跟縱暑這不是開玩笑的事情所以這些志工超人如此啦那平時在戶外高溫下工作的勞工他們也是處於在一個高縱暑風險的環境當中來做這個工作這部長應該可以認同嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後你看這個氣候的極端的發展全球高溫的持續這樣的一個紀錄今年8月世界衛生組織還有這個世界氣象組織也首度的發布了針對勞工熱傷害的健康的最新的這樣的指引顯示這個高溫對全球勞工健康的威脅已經達到前所未有的緊急程度這兩個組織都已經發出這樣聲音也訂出了這樣相關指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
626.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
連日本更是在去年的夏季創下史上最熱的七月紀錄然後隨即著手強化防護措施今年新的規定 若這個七月降溫有責 沒房中暑要花50萬日元等於新台幣是10萬元左右的花款 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
647.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以我在2018年的時候本期就針對勞工熱傷害的議題有推行過這個勞動部但是我們對職安法對熱傷害的概念啦坦白講還遠不如對岸還遠不如對岸 2018的時候你看現在今年幾年了 2025了7年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
693.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以我是希望那個時候當然在隔年就2019的時候我們有發布這個高溫高氣溫作業熱危害的預防指引在2019年的1月的時候但是一樣面對這個極端期望我覺得這個指引已經不夠了光是這個指引絕對不夠然後氣象署也在規劃修氣象法針對高溫的部分規劃增列為災害性天氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
695.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
715.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這是氣象署所以我不曉得勞動部是否應該針對高溫所產生的勞工的熱傷害然後配合氣象署的修法規劃有沒有更積極的因應作為請部長簡單說 跟委員說明其實關於這個高氣溫作業危害熱危害的預防指引其實我們在今年6月的時候再修了一個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
716.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那在這個版本裡面其實把包括有一些相關的工作的類別都放進來包括這些自營作業者包括舉牌工包括外送員我們都把它放進來那其實如果可以對應到現在職安法的修訂的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
761.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
包括現在大家很關注的外送員的熱傷害假設如果平台列者沒有提供協助的話甚至都是可以開罰的我們會直接上面法規並不是只是一個單純沒有牙齒的指引而已其實我們都把定出來那也包括我們其實在10月的時候應該是9月的時候我們其實有提出一個包括一些熱危害的預防的設備的一個補助的計畫包括風扇衣然後包括一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
預防的設備那其實我們都有提出一個補作計畫那的確這是大家會越來越重視的一個問題那我這個這一次從六月到現在其實我們也請治安署加強如果沒有很多的工地包括營造業戶外工作如果沒有做好高溫危害的話其實加強的稽查甚至要去確認改善的部分其實也都是在這幾個月裡面其實我們做了蠻多的突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
789.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以部長現在答覆就是說我們有在修的職營有那職安法都不需要再動職安法現在要修嗎要修嘛對不對還是要從法律的這方面來做修正職安法我們這次的修訂裡面應該是50條齁我記得是50條 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
805.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
823.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那修訂完以後其實就可以對於一些剛剛在講到一些這些職營原本是準用可以變成試用試用以後我們其實可以直接來開發包括剛剛說對外送員或者是這些相關更多的業業這個工作者的部分對所以我們就慈安法的時候來討論了是OK好好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
827.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
837.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
謝謝劉建國委員發言那本日會議詢答全部結束那委員徐欣盈 劉許廷 王育敏 蘇清泉 |