| IVOD_ID |
163983 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163983 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-09T11:18:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-09T11:29:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0913948005eacb6241d428cd8e5a1fe5119d4e8153da54efdcf33aa1b589368261f4198ff1cb05dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳培瑜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:18:50 - 11:29:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。 【10月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.069 |
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我們就在詢答完畢之後先休息五分鐘然後緊接著再請羅委員詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 謝謝主席那我想先請全序部 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
委員長好 部長早我想就跟著剛剛吳斯亞委員所質詢的這個關於年金的部分我們就往下來談喔非常的巧 沒有套好招但問了問題關心的議題是一樣的那我想剛剛斯亞委員已經有很多呼籲了我們就直接來談實質的問題我們想問一下關於國民黨團或者是相關在野黨團他們提出的修法呼籲跟可能召開的公聽會我相信你們在收集與請相關新聞的時候應該都有注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
不知道你們有沒有開始進行試算假設用相關他們的修法辦法或者是論述我們可能會發生什麼情況我是一個比較務實的人我想直接來問一個問題我覺得對於很多剛剛入職的年輕公務員來說他們可能會擔心以後他們會不會領不到如果用這個算法這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那我們如果又來分入職1到5年入職5到10年入職10到15年15到20年往下再往後推這個是已經入職的公務人員來說接下來我要問的是已經退休的公務員他又分剛剛退休退休5到10年退休15到20年10到15年每一個階段的人可能都要面臨這個問題但是他們的處境是大不相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
120.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這是我簡單的推論 以上我的推論是正確的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
122.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝委員 是不是讓我有一點點因為這有點複雜 是不是我把事情講清楚好 我認為確實需要講清楚因為我先說 我們就一般人的角度來看絕對他不是一個可以大範圍框起來說退休人員通通是同一種樣態所以為什麼我們一直呼籲要實質討論好好的討論 針對我剛剛說的光是用年資來看 他就遇到很多的困境我想就讓部長先說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為全局部主管這個退伏基金那我們最重要的責任就是讓退伏基金能夠永續經營所以我們定期會有精算報告最近一次的精算報告在第九次在114年4月完成第九次精算報告就把這個基金的財務狀況做了一個很清楚的說明我先講第一個scenario就是說如果現在政府根據精算報告政府現在可以給基金2.96兆這個基金都不會 就絕對不會倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那是不可能嘛所以接下來年改不斷嘗試做這種措施大概可以讓他在138年公務人員138年就歸零 基金歸零歸零的意思是說後面還有人是沒有錢的我們不會只有在138年就結束嘛那接下來因為我們實施了新制 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
219.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
就是112年新的公務同仁進來新制那個缺口就要補給這個基金如果沒有補給基金那公務人員這個部分會在134年就歸零我想是這樣一個機制這樣往下來那教育人員會歸零的那個年代會更早 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
241.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那當然如果再停止調降那一定會把那個本來134年的那個再往前嘛那就看停止調降現在有一些提案最早的提案是在112年就停止當然這個討論的過程裡面是不是要停止調降這是大院會處理的事情如果真的再停止調降是在112年那歸零的時間點就會拉到130年 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想我只把這時間點做一個說明那這個我舉134年好了就新知識134年距離現在剛好20年那距離20年意思是什麼意思就是說只要你現在換算成你現在如果是在政府部門可能是幾歲以的人那因為20年以後你就達到65歲了你剛好那一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就可能歸零了我想所以它的影響層面一定會影響不是只有縣市人員而是包括已經退休人基金在支領可是當歸零年代出現的時候因為基金就用慶了用慶以後你不會說那時候就不領了後面就是很長的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那一段時間那個財源要從哪裡來所以我跟委員報告意思就是說所以部裡面對這個部分會一直認為就是說對我們來講是基金永續經營是最重要因為我們的責任能讓所有參加這個基金的人不管是現職人員或是已退人員他能夠領到退休金那我想這是最重要的一個說明所以影響層面其實是蠻大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 部長那我可以這樣問嗎如果按照您剛剛的說法本來你們的規劃是138年或134年會歸零但是如果按照這個現在可能在黨團的說法可能130年就歸零我們用一般人的角度來想歸零後會發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
362.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
歸零以後就是基金沒有錢了答案就是沒有錢嘛 領不到錢然後你剛剛給我一個數學題你說我們用20年來推算假設他65歲那一年要退休那也就是他現在45歲左右45到50歲左右他可能要65歲要退休那剛好就是我這個年紀所以到我要退休的時候我在公務機關服務到我要退休的時候那一年剛好就領不到錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那國家要怎麼對待我國家要怎麼協助我我想這個就是一個對我們來講就是當我們在討論這些問題的時候我們全區部一直呼籲大家要也要把後面這個問題正視而不是只有談年改因為年改當初做年改就是說把它延後到138年用盡那後面還是有一個大的洞在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
384.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那後面這個大洞怎麼辦我想這就是要靠社會的共識看怎麼樣去找到一個適合的一個裁員來處理這個事情我只在想是說這是一個很嚴肅的一個課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好所以大概剛剛部長您的回答把我今天的問題大概都回答完所以最後一個問題是我們也很好奇其實有很多基層的公務員告訴我們像他們可能是採用84年7月1號到112年6月30號正式任用的限職公務人員他們不是用個人專戶制對不對那如果按照你的算法他們也會領不到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
435.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我的意思就回過頭來就像以我自己的意思來講對 我就想問你謝謝部長我也是這個當事人之一那我今年應該是所有我也可以透露我年齡我今年應該如果我是當任公務人員我今年就是借齡退休的人是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
435.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那以我們平均餘命來講差不多啦我剛好開始退休然後也許以我們我印象中我們平均餘命65歲大概可以再加20上下所以差不多就是134年啦那我的意思是說用這樣去算的話就是我可能還很幸運你可能還很幸運你可能可能對但是其他人就未必如果即使包括已經退休的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
都有可能領不到那我們往前多推一點已經早你十年退休的人你可能很幸運還可以撐在你後面就是剛剛那個祕書長更年輕才要退休你可能就領不到就是後面用慶歸領的時候都領不到 各位你們都領不到用慶歸領的時候那是一個大的一個古龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 我想今天在場的不是只有立法委員也不是只有主席喔所有現場的公務人員剛剛應該都聽得很清楚我覺得就是會領不到你剛剛說得非常客氣叫歸零那我的話就叫領不到那我覺得這真的是一個非常非常嚴肅的課題喔甚至它可能也不是一場公聽會可以解決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
501.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
528.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們如何真的實質的計算並且看待這個世代的風險我覺得這才是接下來接下來在我們司法法事委員會甚至是所有委員會所有立法委員大家要認真面對的事情也謝謝部長剛這麼清楚的說明我想我們所有問這些事情都是希望所有的公務人員在這個基金永續的前提底下我們真的可以做到那當然剛剛如同部長所說的可能還有新的那個困境就是138年以後那個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
529.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
531.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那個你們目前有任何的演繹的對策或者是想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
534.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是當基金歸零以後那個很大的一個議題其實我剛才在答覆前面我也提到整個國家碰到的問題還有勞保也同樣碰到這個問題是還有勞保還有這個退伏基金也同樣碰到這個問題所以我才說這是一個我覺得還都現在距離勞保當然更早了那現在距離差不多20年左右的一個時間這個社會應該現在要大家努力尋求共識看怎麼解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
563.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
588.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我想各位在場非常聰明有智慧的立法委員應該都聽懂了部長的呼籲應該是大家一起來努力解決後續我們本來應該會問到的問題遇到的問題而不是現在我們想要主張停止所得替代率逐年調降這件事情你們認為要cover過來我認為這是反改革我想我個人的呼籲認為這是反改革還有最後一分鐘有一個題目我們直接按到最後一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
589.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
603.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個是翁委員之前在司法法事委員會有大力呼籲的那也謝謝翁委員當時願意讓他們改成附帶決議那他們就做了調整這個部分可不可以請你們說明一下你們後續做了調整跟對於現場的制度的放寬可以怎麼更友善公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
605.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
634.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
當初也謝謝文委員還有社會保護社會委員在討論的時候我們透過修改這個遺孕留庭辦法的一個方式我們本來只限制譬如像說如果你要養育孫子女就一定要父母或者是祖母只能一方可以我們就把後面的單數拿掉我想這就同時讓只要雙方家庭任何祖父母或者父母都有意願去照顧小孩的話我們都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
635.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
659.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個已經通過應該是今天就是現在應該考試院院會應該通過了就是今天早上但我還是要說謝謝翁委員當時的善意讓你們用附帶決議的方法那你們也已經公告實行對不對考試院院會應該會通過然後送請這個行政院會選好 謝謝我想在所有立法委員能夠做的事情就是這樣我們讓所有政策跟制度可以更往前但謝謝翁委員謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 |