| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc19061065897f096c6ed1812dfcb481e678081dad70f87c46fee31c35a7e5db305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-19T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。
【12月18日及19日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
10542 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:00:18 - 16:56:00 |
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1782.831 |
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立法院秘書長周萬來秘書長副秘書長張玉榮副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1808.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1811.629 |
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其餘列席就案代表不再逐一介紹,請參與名單並列入公報記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1815.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1841.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
等日下午亦呈排定繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分：前今一三年12月4日立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議報告及詢答完畢（決議令定期繼續審查預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件．由於今日繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1844.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1856.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
現在進行下午議程討論事項請先請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項所列14年度預算案之全部預算數及所收委員預算提案宣讀時間約4分鐘請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1861.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1882.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
114年度立法院稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第二十二項立法院十七萬二千元第四款財產收入第二十三項立法院八百七十一萬四千元第七款其他收入第二十三項立法院一百五十六萬三千元稅出部分第三款立法院主管第一項立法院37億六千零三十二萬六千元 |
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1883.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1909.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
繼續宣讀委員提案部分請參閱提案彙整表及預算提案內容114年度中央政府總預算案委員提案彙整表立法院主管收支部分稅出部分第三款第一項立法院第一案至第九案為第一幕一般行政之預算提案第一案第一幕凍結5000萬元文謝龍介等提案第二案第一幕向下01人員維持凍結100萬元文吳思耀等提案第三案01 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1911.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1938.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
零一中人事費之其他給予凍結十分之一文中嘉賓等提案第三零二基本行政工作維持凍結百分之二十文吳宗憲等提案第五案科目同錢凍結一百萬元文吳思瑤等提案第六案零二中業務費之房屋建築養護費凍結五十萬元文陳俊宇等提案第七案零二中設備及投資凍結四分之一文吳宗憲等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1939.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1945.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第8案02中設備及投資之雜項設備費凍結十分之一文中嘉賓等提案第9案02中獎補助費之獎勵及慰問凍結五分之一文中嘉賓等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1954.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1976.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第10案第二幕委員問政業務第二節公費助理向下01公費助理經費凍結100萬元委員吳思堯等提案第11案第二幕第三節國會交流事務向下01國會交流事務經費凍結100萬元委員黃國昌等提案第12案至第14案為第三幕議事業務之預算提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1978.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1993.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第12案第3目凍結50萬元委員無私藥等提案第13案第3目向下02委員會議事凍結50萬元委員無私藥等提案第14案科目同前凍結20萬元委員無私藥等提案第15案第4目 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1993.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1999.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
立法諮詢業務凍結20萬元委員吳斯堯等提案第16案第5幕國會圖書業務向下01圖書管理凍結100萬元委員吳斯堯等提案第17案第6幕公報業務向下02文書印刷中業務廢置物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2011.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2038.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
簡列200萬元為吳宗憲等提案。第18案至第25案為第8目一般建築及設備之預算提案。第18案第8目第一節營建工程凍結500萬元為莊瑞雄等提案。第19案第一節向下01營建工程凍結100萬元為吳思瑤等提案。第二十案第一節向下01中設備及投資之房屋建築及養及設備費 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2041.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2049.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
動結十分之一委員中嘉賓等提案。第21案第8目第三屆其他設備動結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第22案第三屆向下01其他設備中設備及投資資訊軟硬體設備費動結十分之一委員中嘉賓等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2060.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2079.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第23案刻目同錢凍結十分之一委員中嘉賓等提案第二十四案第三節向下零一中設備及投資之雜項設備費凍結十分之一委員中嘉賓等提案第二十五案刻目同錢凍結十分之一委員中嘉賓等提案第二十六案至第四十八案分別為委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2081.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2081.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2100.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2117.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
預算數及所有提案均已宣讀完畢。進行討論前,我們先說明預算案的處理方式。依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例,稅務部分依來源別以向為單位,稅務部分依機關別以目為單位,分別依序進行審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2118.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2130.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
各單位預算中與處理委員所提之徵三提案後,其餘未涉及預算的部分均已照列,有關正式別稅數預算,隨同機關別審查結果調整。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2134.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2154.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
預算提案經由委員會幕僚的整理以將所收的委員提案彙整成預算提案本並且按照預算科目製作彙整表方便各位審查時參考請大家分別參閱提案本及彙整表進行討論此外特別提醒機關稍後經討論決議修正的預算提案請機關將修正內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2159.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2174.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
經提案委員簽名同意後,送交主席台並列入公報記錄。預算審查過程中,如有列席幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時,請先自行介紹職稱姓名,以立公報人員記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2178.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2199.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在進行本日會議效益層討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分先處理稅入部分因為沒有委員提案稅入預算均照列繼續處理稅出提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2201.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2229.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
處理前先做說明依照委員會處理預算案提案的慣例會讓所有提案委員先說明自己的提案並表達意見在經過機關衝突討論之後做成決議也就是實際上依據會整表所列的提案順序依序由提案委員先就提案內容進行說明之後再由機關代表域答覆然後再整目一起處理做成決議原則上我們按照慣例盡可能採取共識的方式處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2233.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2256.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
處理稅出部分依前述原則依序進行先請提案委員針對提案內容進行說明再請機關代表回覆之後再做決議請參與提案本集會整表進行討論那先處理第一幕案號第一至第九案請先請提案委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2260.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2268.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第二案的吳思亞吳幹事長請我來幫他待會表示因為我的下一個案也跟他是一併相關我是不是第二三案一併表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2282.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2307.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好那麼第二案呢這裡面提到的是立法院對於工會助理的編列其實應該隨著時事變遷跟實際需要再進行調整所以呢這個規模呢相當總共他的預算是14億0202萬7千元那其實我們是要五位員是希望我們凍結100萬元那麼希望能夠提出你等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2319.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2333.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第二案吳委員主張凍結一百萬元希望提出書面報告時的凍資 這個算是請立法院做一個規劃算是一個很基本的要求這是第二案的部分第三案的部分是有鑒於 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2334.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2363.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
全國軍公教人員的待遇自己要點有一個子女教育補助那其實目前我們事實上立法院的工作人員除了編制內的公務人員還有立法院禁用的約聘務人員那還有我們很大一群很重要的就是我們的助理那尤其公會助理他實質上他的雇主是我們立法院只是他在指揮調度運用上是交由各委員來聘用跟調度指揮可是實際上的雇主是我們立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2363.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2390.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那既然是稱為公會助理我們認為這些公會助理本身也應該享有比照軍公教人員的子女教育補助那關於這個部分呢因為呢涉及到這個相關法制面的部分所以本期呢是可以接受這個立法院我們應該好像是秘書處當時來跟我報告的總務處來跟我報告的那我可以接受改為主決議那麼是不是主決的內容呢待會印給大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2394.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2410.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
陳. 陳. 陳 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2413.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2434.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席我是不是接續第5案來做說明請說那第5案也是委員為請本席來說明的那事實上我們從2022年起我們就一個永續會那行政院希望每4年國家自願來做檢視那麼目前立法院的部分是沒有編列自願檢視報告那這其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2437.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2464.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是整個政府都一體要來推動的而且政府尤其是立法院要升為表率因此關於我國最高立法機關對促進SDGS等各項指標的達成貢獻那麼這裡也是因為預算科目整目是1億9千餘萬元那我們這裡只是凍結100萬元要求立法院向本會委員會提出書面報告時的凍資這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2467.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2477.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
吳委員及本席待會提出的要求。好謝謝吼那下一個才是陳俊宇來陳俊宇委員是否要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2478.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2501.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 謝謝主席那針對這個第6案的部分就是我們這個國會擴建的部分在去年度我們編列一個709萬那今年度看起來就是所有的預算都沒有這個做使用所以我還是拜託我們秘書長還有所有相關的這個科室對於這個我們國會擴建的部分這個問題應該來重視看怎麼樣趕快來啟動讓這個預算可以趕快來實現 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2511.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2511.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第8案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2535.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2550.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
立法院這裡面是提到了我們研究大樓的空調系統那因為事實上節能減碳那進行碳排而且事實上我們也要求行政機關要推動住宅家電太舊換新的補助還有行政院也提供了商業服務業節能 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2552.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2552.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第…… |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2579.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2580.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
請問機關部分就23568這幾案能不能一併說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2591.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2610.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席、各位委員。剛才非常謝謝總委員有部分改為主決議。那我是剛才從一位首先先謝謝謝陽翠委員第一案撤案。那第二案裡面本身,這裡面的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2613.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2624.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我是比較希望委員不要凍結案但是這個案裡面本身我要跟各位委員報告其實這個從96年裡面來當時對於這個一些費用大概都是經過朝委黨聯協商按照指數法326所編列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2636.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2636.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2651.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2667.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
以目前在因為法院上是在32條如果黨團協商同意各這個費用可以增加那當然在以院方的幕僚立場當然就是說就配我去處理了我當時跟陳委員也是這樣報告那目前當時在96年在處理的時候是以8到14以8 5萬7乘以8等於40萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2678.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2687.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
後來現在目前就是因為那個待的一些調整加熱吧那這一個這一個加班會當時是8萬黨官這裡是10萬嘛那是當時那是經過立法院在這個等於在在第 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2702.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2727.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
對第6屆第6會期第14次會在96年12月7號的14日裡面當時經過黨團協商結論的錢啊所以一直到現在那各位如果說委員如果是經過各黨團大概都有共同的情況你透過提案其實我剛才跟陳委員報告吧如果現在助理其實助理的這個水平越拉越高是對立法院的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2727.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2728.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2752.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2758.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們也可以去研議但是我個人是認為說凍結這個預算是懇請各位委員是不是就不要凍結我們提一個報告那是不是透過那第三案是謝謝這個總委員是改為主決議但我們會去思考就是說因為其實這個案真正怎樣講起來是在這是聯視總出編的不是這個預算不在我們這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2779.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2789.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們不在我們這邊所以主決議我們會透過這個是不是要跟人事總書去反映或什麼這個我想謝謝張委員改為主決議這是大概第三案那第四案謝謝這個吳委員改為主決議那第五案的本身其實已經有跟吳委員稍微提過吳委員是希望在今天的會裡面再來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2807.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2816.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我當然密室處理委員會去演議,但是我是希望預算不要跟我們凍結,讓我們稍後會跟各位委員做報告。這個是第5案,大概請各位委員可以給我們協助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2826.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2843.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
第6案,剛才陳委員所提的這個第2案,其實總共有4個案,第6案,第19案,第31案,其實事要委員所提的16案其實都是國會擴建的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2844.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2858.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以是不是這四個案都合起來是不是等一下各位委員如果同意的話這40案是不是一併為改為鍾立雄委員所提的第31案的主決議所以請各位委員跟我們斟酌有四個案這一個為國會擴建大概有四個案在那至於第7案謝謝委員改為主決議所謂主決議我在 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2870.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2896.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
禮拜三跟各單位主管提的我說主決議並不是說改主決議就好你不需要那個內容你能夠施行不是像打高峰那樣可以可以不是這樣我那時候是相當嚴肅的跟各單位主管提的你要改為主決議你去溝通完可以改主決議你是能夠做得到你做不到你這個就等於是跟委員是不尊重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2897.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2921.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
當時我在開會的時候也特別跟他們這樣講那第8案一樣這第8案其實這一個給我的資料是我跟總處長已經提過很多次因為這一個中興大陸當時得來不易啦這一個過程我不方便在這邊講那麼多其實這一個建築物已經很老舊了啦所以包括那水管都是已經會漏水 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2924.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2951.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以當然跟我報告以後他給我一個書面的是從11月8日已經有空調的這個祭司來看過了那當然他有一個規劃方案是跟我講但我說這一個在演繹當中的一個方案他有提了四個方案啦其實有書面在我這手中啦所以這個裡面是不是我們就把這一個為了這一個檢探的我們是提一個報告是不是就 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2952.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2952.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
第9案是非常謝謝這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2964.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2968.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
中央政府總預算案關於立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第12月18日及19日兩天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2996.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3008.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
主席,因為你有處理到我的第三頁,但是我還是要請大家過目一下。但是我的比較簡單,我先就剛剛第二案跟第五案的部分,我分別說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3009.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3025.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那第二案的確剛剛秘書長的說明那其實就算是不改為主決議其實以我們今天這兩案的文字表述都是提出書面報告後使得動之這其實跟你改為主決議其實沒兩樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3027.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3051.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
只是形式上有個凍結但是呢你只要告訴書面報告我們不會去為難不會說針對其他的一樣是五院之一我們要求提書面報告經同意後使得凍支如果後面加幾個經同意後使得凍支那就嚴重了因為要經同意的話那又一定要我們送到我們委員會來那經過委員會的重新審視後才能通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3052.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3071.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以今天我們下的這兩個吳世耀委員所做的這兩個動議提案他其實對於立法院本身相較於我看到之前有討論到監察院的部分還要加提書面報告今同意後始的動之那就真的是凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3072.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3087.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那這個呢其實我是覺得秘書長就不用太堅持因為吳委員請我做這個表達那對你們來講提個報告就可以動之了沒有實際上達到書面沒有真的影響到你們預算的執行這一點我先跟秘書長跟委員會做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3089.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3109.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
至於我提的第三案現在有文字已經拿到了我剛剛也簽字了還是要請大家看一下這個主決議原件請立法院研議立法院公費助理納入教育補助對象之方案並於三個月內向本委員會提出書面報告這樣就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3110.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3127.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我沒有動你的預算我讓你提出書面報告那是不是說剛剛秘書長你有言議說你有說到說這個是人事總署的一通則通案性的規定但是我是覺得呢如果跟剛剛吳委員的第二案在整個公費助理待遇的一個提升上那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3128.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3144.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
可能明目上是不是要用軍公教待遇知己條例那個是屬於管公務員的那個要人事總署那如果在立法院本身有沒有可能在對公費助理的待遇內容上把這個部分因為不是每個人都有子女教育啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3145.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3169.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以他會變成說跟一般工會助理不是齊頭式的每個人薪水多少你委員請幾個多少薪水額度不是他就會產生說當我僱用了他他有子女的時候在一定年齡之下學年他可能才會支領那這個時候的預算就比我們原來在編列的時候是很固定的就不一樣對不對我們原來你說的如果是工會助理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3170.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3189.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
待遇我們編列預算多少人多少額度一邊就好但是如果把這個子女教育補助比照公務人員我們是把它放到了給工會助理的待遇的一種考量當中那麼這個就會有一個有一個不是很固定額度可是這是有必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3189.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3200.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因為我們現在國家要積極推動硬硬少子化那我們的公會助理非常的辛苦那如果說他們自己有子女尤其是我遇到很多孩子都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3201.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3202.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
第8案 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3231.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3234.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
總務處的處長你們寫的這個字你們提供給我的這個節電膠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3261.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3262.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
因為剛剛秘書長有提到說不是只有中心大樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3282.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3311.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
中心大樓的電梯在我們看來是一種非常不夠聰明的電梯分成單雙還有層層亭那其實上你看我們使用中心大樓的研究室的委員人數最多助理也最多經常要去接觸的國會連任人也最頻繁這麼一棟立法院的大樓可以說使用人數最多的使用了三座電梯先不提之前發生的安全問題他連運載的智慧調度都幾乎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3312.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3330.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
之前總務處長跟我回報說什麼還要改基板喔還要幹嘛的囉我是覺得現在的時代了那另外呢另外我有提到說空調的節電功能其實之前我們看到不只只有立法院考試院也好監察院也好這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3332.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3345.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
現馬機關因為當時新建的聽設看起來外觀宏偉其實呢內部的設備都非常成就那這個節電尤其是空調他一定有能水主機有的其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3346.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3373.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
五院其他的各院能水主機用了20幾年要更新我們委員都還特別關切這些契約的內容有沒有達到這個效益我們自己立法院我們的空調主機有沒有這樣的一個節電功能有沒有充分運用能水主機讓我們達到節電的效果反而當我們去刮別人的鬍子的時候自己有沒有刮乾淨我也覺得汗顏 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3374.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3386.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
同樣的憲法機關5院之一其他各院的能水主機空調的要更新我們委員審得非常詳細還要求看 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3388.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3404.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
每年的節能、修繕有沒有達到效果花這筆錢有沒有把從電費省的省下來我們這裡總務處我們算很客氣了你們自己寫、執筆寫的就寫個主題而已我這裡面沒有要求你們要提出說過去我們立法院空調設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3409.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3425.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
因為能水主機的效能到底我們用了多少電有沒有浪費那如果要求你們更新要花多少錢我們目前的養護契約有沒有拿出來檢視這個呢我們都是原則性的要求而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3425.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3440.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
沒有細項的要求我們立法院把這些東西主義的點出來算是呢這個言以待人寬以慮己我們都覺得不太好意思講所以我這個主決議算是給我們立法院一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3441.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3468.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
很包容的很寬容的讓你們來寫寫出來之後我會再對應我們立法院審其他的5院其他的5院到底我們對人家的要求跟對自己的要求會有多大落差所以我希望齁秘書長請你們要下筆之前要寫這個書面報告啊去看一看其他各院要應付我們本院委員的審查要求的詳細程度不要差太多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3470.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3480.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
人家給我們的報告我要收到一千二千 交給我們的報告寫到非常的清楚我們寫的報告如果只有寥寥草草的幾行 這個拿去明年度預算審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3481.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3510.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
就很難看了所以我這個是好意我要告訴你我們在這個本委員會我們審議的有其他憲法機關的其他五院之一的人家的能水主機要換23年要更新我們這邊要求很多要求很多的人家也照辦了那現在我們自己很原則性的讓你們自己寫你們的書面報告先去看人家寫到多細寫出來的細目詳細的程度該有的項目該有的內容不要少 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3511.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3536.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
不然的話明年度我們審預算的時候我們把你們提出來書面報告跟其他五院的更換能水主機空調線能改善的人家提的報告拿出來比較一下會怕不好看所以我為什麼特別跟主席說這一個提案我可以改成書面改成組決議我也只有請你們提書面報告內容也只是說希望你們的電梯要有智能運載哪一座群閒樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3538.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3550.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
群仙樓的電梯啊如果有去搭啦像我們當召委以前我在財政委員會那個8點50的尖峰滿載啊尤其是財政委員會9樓官員列席的很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3551.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3570.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
他那邊排隊啊等那三部電梯有一部電梯不知道是腦袋怎麼特別笨另外兩台叫都可以叫得下來那一台就微波不動這個我問過了總務處的處長他說那一台的確比較笨因為他電腦棄板呢就是那樣的設計那我是覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3571.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3597.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
一個立法院作為全國本身自我要作為全國機關的楷模我們的這些效能要提高從這些很基本的配置電梯空調空調節電節能啊那麼電梯呢要智慧運載我們就看很多民間的企業大樓啊沒有像我們立法院這樣子的三台電梯各走各的真的讓我們已經來立法院這麼久了發現說 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3599.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3617.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
10年一個世代居然進步這麼緩慢所以這個部分就特別的請第三案跟第八案秘書長再做個承諾那我覺得第二案吳思耀委員跟第五案吳思耀委員部分他的凍結只要你交個書面報告沒有要痛又死的凍之我是覺得秘書長就承擔下來吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3619.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3632.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝,大概先從第8案再做一個簡單的報告,因為時間關係,剛才中委員所提的,我們會從公務員所提的公報中委員所提的各點 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3634.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3641.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
在在我們跟總務處在演繹的時候他有四個方案那就是中間大樓那剛才提的這個群青樓總務處長也跟我報告過啦在剛才中央委員所提的所以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3648.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3662.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
既然我們改為主決議我非常謝謝,那我們一定照你的意思會很落實的再去做檢討,尤其這個安全,韓院長來以後一直責成這副秘書長跟總務處 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3664.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3686.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3686.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3712.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
至於這個說凍結三個月跟我們寫報告來我自己會理解同意後死的凍結那是另外一層啦但是這一個凍結如果是說因為剛才特別跟委員的提案前我是非常尊重啦非常尊重我自己在議會機關那麼久只不過是說如果我們做得到是不是一定要寫凍結幾個月那除了那一個是很特殊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3713.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3722.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
特殊的說有特別的提了一個要求比如9月2日黃國昌委員所提的國際事務會這個提的時候他有特別就位公開的一個情形那動輒我們必須在需要再去考慮在演繹當中這個動作我可能就比較會尊重就比如說主席裡面有提了100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3737.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3752.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以這個本身倒不是這種情形的話是不是能夠給命表裡面大概雖然是寫這樣的情況是不是也是給改革一個決議讓我們去處理如果委員提案權堅持這樣我也沒有說一定會怎麼樣不可這是行政命表的一個立場謝謝好謝謝那翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3776.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3802.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
針對541委員所提出的這個第二案那看起來五委員的意思是想要在擴編公費助理費用嗎因為五委員在他的提案裡面他是有講到就是說因應科技的浪潮網路新媒體的興起所以呢委員跟黨團都要積極的網羅新媒體人才要做影音啊短片做圖卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3802.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3826.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那麼可是從他的這個提案裡面看不出來他真正的用意是什麼是希望這個立法院未來要再提高公費助理的費用還是說是就是要將公費助理的這個聘任制度變得更彈性是變多可以拚兼任呢還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3830.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3846.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我看法是說他大概是認為說以後應該要開放讓立法院也可以聘這網路小編那這網路小編其實每個委員其實現在都可以透過自己的專任助理也可以去聘有這些影音人才所以就他這個提案來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3847.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3868.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
坦白說我看不出來他的目的是什麼如果是要提高公費助理費用的話那其實可以建議應該是要由這個委員由吳四堯委員他自己要主動提修法要修法要這個修改我們現在立法院公費助理的費用表 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3869.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3880.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那麼如果說是要放寬要多拼多提高多費助理的原額的話其實也是要修法那麼因此的就這個議題來講要去凍結立法院100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3885.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3903.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我個人認為其實沒有什麼太多的道理這意思是說要叫立法院要提修法嗎其實委員自己就可以提了啦那當然就是這個議題是可以檢討啦我記得我們在經費結合委員會的時候其實有提出來那所以我的想法是說是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3904.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3912.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
可以在這個案子上面就是不要凍結100萬但是也可以請立法院秘書長這邊就這個議題再提個延期報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3916.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3934.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
對事實上因為這個真的不是立法院這裡可以去智慧這還是涉及到修法的問題所以呢如果說像鍾委員鍾嘉斌委員吳思堯委員你們是支持這樣子的一個提案的話我認為說可以主動修法因為我也支持到時候可以找我來連署好不好好謝謝還有另外一個就是剛剛鍾委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3942.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3967.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這要補助我們立法委員的職員技工等等這些教育補助這個其實也是涉及到修法的問題因為您剛剛有提到對就目前的全國軍公教員工待遇知己要點他的確他是給的是具有軍公教的身份的人他才有這樣的一個福利因為我們還是有繳什麼退府費啊等等這些費用在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3967.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3991.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以如果說今天是要將立法院的助理技工還有職員等等要有這樣的補助的話要含公費助理要把這些公費助理的補助要納在這個立法院的這個教育補助裡面我認為其實不適合而且他們可能還更應該是需要適用勞基法吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3993.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3994.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
中委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4016.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4043.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
謝謝我們終於很開心我們在司法及法制委員會能夠針對自己最立法院最切身的事情大家很理性的來溝通那謝謝剛剛問員的指教因為講到我的第三案我還是要說明一下因為怕有些認知上的誤解原來的第三案我已經同意改為主決議其實這裡面所提到的原來全國軍公教員工待遇自己要點的副表9子女教育補助表的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4044.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4065.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
目前誰享有這些待遇呢?立法委員本身,你可以請職員教育職員包括我們的公務人員、技工、工友這也包含了但你想想看立法院的工作人員有這麼多都是領國家的興奉包括立委包括職員包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4066.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4069.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
同樣支持我們國家的立法工作同樣支持我們國家的立法工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4095.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4117.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
公務預算編列的待遇那公費助理也是領我們公費預算編列的待遇啊可是他們的主理不能領那個教育補助啊那因為這樣的確有法制向我們考量到底要不要修法我剛也說了也還是立法院有沒有什麼方式我們就可以不受到這個自己要點的規定我們可以另外在我們的預算的用途別當中予以擴充 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4118.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4140.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
要經過什麼樣的法制程序那請他們研擬一個書面報告所以就是也跟公務員的意思相去不遠只是說我沒有設定一定要修法才能領說不定秘書長很厲害找出一個不用修法我們就可以在既有的法制的之下就把它列為公會助理的待遇的一部分來致用這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4141.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4153.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那至於那個這個剛剛秘書長有提到說三個月秘書長這個您看清楚喔不是叫你三個月後才能提書面報告時的動作欸三個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4155.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4174.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
您要是2月1日就提出面報告,2月1日就動輸啦,所以這個現在今天才12月19日嘛,今天12月19日嘛,您內容已經很清楚給您了明年度還沒開始,新的會計年度預算年度還沒開始,那如果您都把這樣的想法已經都準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4175.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4196.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
會計年度預算年度一開始你送到我們委員會來完全幾乎有動沒動幾乎差別不大那你既然尊重我們委員的一個論述我是覺得這一點實質上差別有限就不用太堅持反正內容上我們翁委員指導了嘛要寫哪些報告內容翁委員指導好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4197.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4220.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我剛已經說過尊重委員提案我沒有說很堅持我剛已經說過好那這樣我這樣算起來這一幕凍結的部分是總數是250萬那民主黨這邊有沒有一個可以接受就是說協商之後大家可以接受的凍結的數字那因為像各委員之間也許是能接受雙方就能夠協調成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4225.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4239.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
議員提案的權我沒有特別意見就凍結多少我們就配合會員你要多少錢是不是要總數嗎案的部分是有要凍結嗎我的建議是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4240.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4241.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
同樣的題目我們這幾天是討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4268.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4291.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個時候就剛好大家的位置對調了呢?我們就說書面報告時的動資其實對於提案人對於預算機關本身都是大家可以接受的但是如果審預算的時候你的凍結預算下提書面報告經同意加這三個字整個效果就不同了所以請翁委員再看一下沒有寫經同意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4292.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4314.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我跟中委員的意見不一樣有沒有經同意或什麼都不重要重要是說你們現在這個提案看起來基本上並不是立法院這邊可以做而且不清楚你到底的目的是要求的是要擴編是要擴編公費助理費用嗎還是要擴編原額對您自己看這個所以我認為說其實五委員這裡講的這個凍結100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4334.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4347.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這一幕是不是就在200萬以下就凍結200萬是不是可以請委員支持那這樣齁是不是各位委員是不是同意就是說本幕就是合併凍結200萬看看大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4351.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4378.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
能不能接受?可以嗎?好那在場的委員有沒有不同意見?好那如果沒有的話那第一幕一般行政提案案號第一到第九然後領這邊兩案測案好沒問題第一到第九測案第一九案測案 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4379.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4406.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
然後第3478改為主決議然後除以上個案外本幕合併凍結200萬元並針對各凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後使得動之接著處理第二幕委員問政業務提案案號第10案第11案那我們請提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4410.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4416.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們請提案委員吳思瑤說明中委也要幫忙他 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4418.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4441.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那是這樣我們這裡面提到了我們因為立法院組織法規定的依其勞動基礎法規定的相關費用由預勞院編列預算支應那因為這裡面勞基法的38條勞工在同一僱主或事業單位繼續工作滿一定年期要給特別休假那當中還有未休的要發給工資那麼這個從106年到現在可是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4448.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4461.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
其實未來立法院要書寫的時候其實跟剛剛第二案我們要求立法院進行檢討提出的說明就更聚焦在什麼聚焦在我們公費助理的勞動權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4463.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4483.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
因為我們說對公衛助理的預算編列是依法可是這個法它並沒有隨著勞動基準法的修訂在跟著修訂所以它的額數就變成聞風不動我這樣講應該其實我們在場的助理朋友都心有戚戚焉 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4484.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4495.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我們今天不是在爭說公費助理的額度我們要修法讓他擴大看是編制增加還是額數擴大而是說縱使是維持原來的額數 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4497.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4501.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
立法院第116年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院第126年度中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4518.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4519.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4543.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4546.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
同時參酌立法院組織法第32條也參討我們勞基法第38條在這個預算上怎麼樣可以靈活的去因應其他相關勞動權益法令的優化而能夠同時的與時俱進所以我想這個部分因為這個洞解是只有寫什麼提出面報告時的洞知也是跟貼案一樣你只要把你們的做法寫出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4566.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4579.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
你要2月1號交券根本那個凍結的效力根本沒有影響到我們預算的支應所以也在這裡跟委員會做個說明好謝謝那我們請黃國昌委員做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4580.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4606.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
謝謝主席第11案我所提的案子是今年2月1號新的國會的時候我們有邀請兩大黨立法院政府院長擬參選人到臺灣民眾黨團來拜會那個時候我們提一個一個重要的訴求就是希望在立法院相關經費的使用上必須要公開透明建立陽光國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4608.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4620.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
因此我看到我們自己的國會交流事務的經費跟去年比起來大概多了2000多萬當然我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4621.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4649.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
立法院的統人有來說明說好像我們爭取到了一個很重要的會議在國會外交上的主辦所以有這樣經費的增加但我們還是希望說能夠去貫徹這樣子的一個原則就是說這個錢到底是怎麼花的那你還是要一條一條比較公開透明的列出來讓全體的納稅人都有監督的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4650.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4679.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那來說明的時候我有聽到說好像有一些牽涉到的比較敏感外交上面的事物恐怕沒有辦法百分之百都這樣做那我基本上也尊重我的意思是說什麼時候是跟因為不管是我們自己還是跟外交部合作有比較機敏性的認為不宜公開的那你們到時候揭露的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4679.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4698.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
用密件的方式給各個委員但是其他的部分我認為還是要公開你說立委、組團去歐洲去美洲隨便去哪裡都可以我沒有說這樣的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4700.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4700.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
總召委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4725.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4746.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這個只要是站在我們監督公開揭露這樣的原則我都是支持的所以對於本案我也是希望待會我們秘書長的說明要特別的清楚因為在立法院這9年來個人以委員的身份不管是用次團的方式我們去做其他的國會交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4747.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4759.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
用的經費就是編給每個委員一年10萬元的交流經費而已就是這些所以為什麼會有新的年度增加了兩三千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4760.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4788.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們這10萬元是完全無面目動的那我這邊特別要請民主黨說清楚因為外界看到這樣的一個提出來的質疑他會說哦那麼立法院開始去查啦立法院到底是哪些委員經常在從事國會交流的活動一查中嘉賓委員哦經常這些新南向國家他都有去很抱歉我們都是用自己那10萬元一年的額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4789.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4814.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們不曾是使用過這個所謂的重要訪兵接待有啦韓院長自從他上任以來有重要訪兵來訪我們基於對手國是我們的交流對象我們會去陪同我也不過喝了一杯咖啡吃了一個cake我不曉得這個算不算在那個增加的國際交流訪兵接待的經費當中如果是有那我承認我有使用到一點點 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4815.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4842.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那麼跨國國會交流論壇目前為止如果是這樣的交流論壇過去在第9屆第10屆曾經有國際組織國會組織邀請之前不管是蘇院長還是游院長那個時候也是由院長邀集各黨團那麼依政黨的期次比例推薦委員來參加的那也是公開的那如果要把那個公開我覺得最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4843.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4871.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
接下來國會聯誼會組團出訪這個我就很納悶了我知道有時候我們有看到在外交國防委員會因為他們基於他們委員會的業務屬性他們會有到其他國家去進行他們委員會的業務那那個經費是不是從這裡來的我也不清楚但是至少本期我自有參加擔任國會議員做立法委員參與國會交流以來不曾有過 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4872.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4887.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以待會請秘書長特別說明剛剛提案委員所提到的較廣年度增加的這些額度是誰在致用是身為立法院的代表韓院長基於接待國外來的國會議員的訪兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4889.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4913.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
或者說韓院長要率團去做回訪人家國會議長來我們要國會議長去是誰在使用那麼委員的各次級的國會聯誼會組團出國有沒有在韓院長任內就動之了可能這筆經費但是因為可能不夠你們要增加那是怎麼使用韓院長把這樣的一個國會交流經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4916.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4931.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
委給哪些國家之間的國會交流來使用我也很好奇所以我聽來看來看去這邊寫出來的好像都是以韓院長院長的職權可以去使用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4933.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4949.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
至於有沒有是屬於委員分配給委員額度的有沒有在這個增加的範圍內請一併說明這樣外界會誤解以為委員經常在其他國家看到我們的臉書我們的描述我們經常去其他國家為了推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4951.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4976.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
國會外交我們去關心那邊的僑胞關心那邊的台商看到我們出現在國際場合好像次數很頻繁那麼開始懷疑說這個是不是都是用我們立法院增加因為太頻繁了所以呢要大幅的擴充預算是投射在我們委員的使用身上還是放在院長的身上這一點請秘書長要充分的說明我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4977.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4986.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
到目前為止我每個年度來申請的就是立法院給的固定額度那個額度有沒有增加也請讓我們明白 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4987.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4997.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我簡單說明一下再請這一個我們國際事務處副處長戴維再補詳細說明首先第10案裡面這一個勞基法的32條的規範這個是跟剛才在第2案之間的關係所以我想是說這一個100萬是不是我就改為主決議因為跟第2案相關性所以我認為是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5016.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5016.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5036.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5063.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
醫療計劃所規定的相關會用所以有相關性所以是不是這一個可以把它改為主決議是不是請各位委員支持的至於第11案方國昌所提的這一個案當時我請他們去報告的時候是因為當時在院長會長選舉因為我還沒到立法院來其實我有在看一些新聞因為當時的兩個候選人都有到民眾黨去要求經費公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5065.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5081.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
在這個基於這個原則上所以當時他們來跟我報告的時候我說這一個基於經會公開當時有這個一個承諾因為我自己來講我當時在當考試委員在院會所做的承諾我不教書我就六年我從來不去教書這個是很 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5083.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5085.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
立法院總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5110.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5119.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
原來每年的收支每年兩次一次是16萬後來改到10萬所以現在一年是20萬所以這邊6759當中就有2260萬是原來的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5129.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5155.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
對 那個是委員個人的啦我是這樣說那另外一個是APPU這一個裡面有1000萬因為這一次我們變了主辦國這一次因為去年在今天在日本裡面我們爭取到主辦國啦這APPU在我個人在當會面場的第一次的APPU是我負責的啦所以我說這個是等於是國際上的一個關係他的這一個秘書是在日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5156.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5180.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
所以他們也有規劃的這一個很詳細的規劃給我看過啦 除非當天因為時間關係我副理長是沒有 因為我當天身體有點不太舒服是也經過同意 所以副理長當時他可能沒看到那個規劃的計畫 所以當時沒有答的很清楚啦 所以這個裡面的APPU我是希望各位委員能夠支持這一千萬大概在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5182.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5183.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
委員會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5212.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5230.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以他們從這邊去規劃到一千萬來所以這一個裡面當時是我所了解是這樣那因為這一次有增加到2599當中就要扣除這一千萬所以增加了1599但是國際事務處這一次裡面有加了那一個五百萬就剛才鍾委員所提的現在有90個團90個團這一個次級的團包括你也有組成幾個團嗎有有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5243.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5258.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
民主黨講清楚齁 我出國組團我沒有用茉莉委員的錢齁 我要報告就是這個五百萬奔的時候是在有90個團所以他們才會預計明年度去奔的這個五百萬因為這是明年度用的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5261.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5261.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
委員會主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5278.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5305.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那中委我等一下再請我們副處長再跟比較細的這細節性跟大家報告以後然後再由這一個會來做決定這一個是要讓這個本來是很公開化的東西大概會用編制的情形我所初步了解是大概這樣是不是我可以請楊副處長再細的報告一下可以不可以請主席是不是可以那中委是我們先讓那個報告對喔副處長比較清楚的細節性的麻煩請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5310.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5329.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
謝謝委員對國際事務的關心我們今年的國際事務費用確實增略了2599萬真的相對於去年是增加蠻多的跟委員報告就是說去年的話我們可能主要委員的部分就是剛剛委員提到的一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5330.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5356.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
一年10萬的部分那這是2260然後國際慶典會議互訪的部分是2000萬那這部分齁過去這2000萬就包含了外賓接待還有比如說聯誼會的出訪還有首長率領跨黨派的委員出訪這些都是過去就混用那我們今年希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5356.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5376.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5376.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5403.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
跟委員補充說明一下我們是預估大概50團那一團大概10萬10萬元的費用那因為如果委員出訪的時候有時候再加上外交部會協助那這部分所以我們在COVID-19那個過後其實互訪的機會大增然後這個部分我們就是說配合國際的情勢所以也鼓勵委員用聯誼會的名義來出訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5404.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5430.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以增列500萬那這個是單獨編列然後另外在那個我們在接待外邊的部分我們增列了999萬那這部分齁這最主要就是說比如說餐費其實我們都希望委員熱情來參加我們的這個外邊接待的活動所以我們每一個場次如果有 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5430.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5448.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
約399,000 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5448.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5474.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5474.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5501.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
國會外交的成果做一些文宣那這部分有999萬那這樣的話所以那在APPU的部分就是跨國國會跨國國會交流論壇的這個部分因為我們爭取到APPU的主辦權那明年的話我會在台灣舉辦那這也是台灣我們立法院唯一用 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5503.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5528.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
會員國的身份來加入的一個國際組織所以也是很請各位委員來支持那這一千萬的編列大概首先當然主要還是說各國政要還有國會議員他們的機票交通的一些費用住宿的費用還有場地的活動費那因為到時候的人數跟規模可能都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5529.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5544.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
會比以往再多很多所以我們這次是用100人次來計算那跟委員報告所以這個部分才會編列1000萬而且他是一次性的費用然後跟委員再補充說明一下因為那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5545.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5559.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
他這個國際會議是用日本跟各個會員國來輪流主辦的方式所以我們明年就是由台灣來承辦那以上先報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5560.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5562.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5586.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5606.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
例子細上我大概會很詳細的報告這一個國際書會用那是不是就是那個第11案的這第11案就是100萬就留著那第10案這邊因為他跟第2案有相關性是不是這個就用決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5608.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5635.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
讓我們提出報告這一百萬就不要處理是不是可以這樣接受?因為跟第二案有關看總統的意思其實不是看我的意思因為剛剛從我們秘書長跟我們國際事務處的處長副處長的說明那個我先不好意思國際事務處是去年才成立的去年才成立的所以副處長也是今年才到任 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5636.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5643.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
去年就到任了嘛所以你有你今年只執行過去年編列的預算所以你基於去年編列預算執行去年編列預算的經驗所以剛剛講的那500萬是去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5649.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5679.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
今年沒有編的嘛對不對是去年有沒有編沒有嘛對要講清楚啊主席他說的這500萬要促進國會交流的這500萬單獨編列的今年沒有去年也沒有我們國際事務處去年才成立那我是很肯定立法院成立國際事務處這是第一任院長不管黨派他們投入國會外交提升台灣的國際地位及能見度我們全力支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5680.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5706.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
所以不因為哪個黨派當院長我們對於中華民國立法院推動國外交我們有任何的保留所以我們支持成立國際事務處我們也支持國際事務處基於促進台灣的國際外交跟能見度編列相關預算我們核實我們用力來推動在有限的機會我們努力去推動但是剛剛報告的內容是明年才開始的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5706.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5717.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
今年以前沒有編列過,這一點要特別釐清,因為連副處長都是去年成立後才來的,您剛講那個是APPU,好像是泛太平洋島與國家國會聯誼會 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5724.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5746.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
論壇那個是我在第9屆的時候蘇嘉全院長的時候的確他的做法你要講要講得清楚明白他的發起地主國是日本一年在日本一年就在其他的會員國過去我們要不知道日本去參加要不到日本以外的其他島國去參加我個人只有參加過一次是到日本那一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5747.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5758.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那一次蘇院長代團我還記得很深刻那時候現任監察院副院長李鴻元副院長那時候是副團長他那時候是副團長他還自掏腰包請團員去用餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5770.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5786.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以我要說明的其實在台灣我們推動國會外交其實大家都是用心竭力雖然預算編列有限但是都願意誠心的去推動那我們聽到明年有爭取到在台灣今年在日本嘛明年在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5787.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5814.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
作為替主國,我們為了讓來的其他的會員國能夠有感受到台灣在國會交流上的重視我是支持這個預算應該要給他足夠的預算所以如果你們編的這個額度我絕對支持所以呢這個部分我絕對不會認為要有所的一個剪裂或凍結但是因為原提案人本案的提案人提到的是說因為擔心到還有其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5816.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5838.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
各政黨的委員所組成的各種國會交流聯誼會那因為你們明年開始多編了五百萬我就很好奇我以前從來沒有機會被告知要申請過啊那為什麼現在這個五百萬人家都問我啊說你這個宗教兵常常去啊你是不是有用到啊一頭霧水那我這樣跟請待會副處長可以再說明到目前為止我們立法委員去做這個國會交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5840.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5856.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們可以跟院長他可以主宰的院長可以主導的預算當中我們申請了什麼我告訴你副處長你還不曉得我們可以申請什麼院長有一筆錢他可以編製作紀念品紀念品有兩個用途一個是來訪的來賓國會議員我們送給他帶回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5859.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5888.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
一種是我們委員去出訪我們來跟院長申請我要送給國會議員我要寫名冊我領一個我們立法院專門特製的這樣的紀念品我帶去那個國家送給那個國會議員這個禮品費是編在這個項目之下由院長來支用而我們國會議員我們要去國會交流我們要來申請的可能副處長還不知道我不知道你知不知道我們是這樣可以申請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5889.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5902.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以我要跟秘書長說啊秘書長您是老經驗的你也在立法院服務過像這些我們有利於立法院不只是國內立法國外外交很重要這些推動的工作你們對外要說明清楚所以我很支持說 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5904.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5927.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
預算的部分我沒有意見但是呢有委員提案要求有書面報告這些要一五一十的向社會公開免得社會用有色的眼光在看待我們國會我們委員去做國會外交不要讓這些努力被抹殺我是完全支持這個那至於回過頭來說到那個我們吳思耀吳委員的第10案我要說明一下因為剛剛聽說你的答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5929.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5949.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
如果你願意這個手冊翻一下我就是因為聽了你答覆我反而擔心你有誤解我們立法院組織法第32條分成三項第一項他說明立法院得知工會助理他的助理費可以依辦公室務然後依勞動基準法所規定的相關費用由立法院編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5950.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5969.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以這個助理費它的編列其實它有加上要根據勞動基礎法的規定那如果當勞動基礎法有更新有提升那麼這個就要聯動去處理我們看第二項 第二項寫前項的立法委員辦公室等必要費用之項目標準如附表從102年開始實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5971.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5999.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這裡面包括什麼呢?包括立法院地方問證去租用服務處的辦公室的租金這都在102年的時候就到現在了但是剛剛我們吳氏雅委員所提供的是勞基法106年後有新的規定有新的規定之後你根據第一項你就應該要去調整付表的內容這是不帶我們修法就要處理的我再講一次第一項就告訴你公費助理的待遇薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5999.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6004.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
立法院因每年編列預算補助工會助理實施健康檢查及文康活動只有兩個項目健康檢查及文康活動是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6024.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6045.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那因此剛剛吳志耀委員的第二案他是認為什麼我的那個案子子女教育補助那個如果認真來講如果要修法要列在我們的第三項那不修法有沒有可能方式處理我們就是我剛剛那一案子就是要請你們提書面報告用主決的方式至於說第三項它的日期是114年實施啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6047.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6067.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以從114年之後我們立法院對未來可以對什麼今年是113年嘛明年開始我們的助理呢可以有什麼健康檢查可以有文康活動但是呢有沒有可以包含子女的教育補助我不知道所以我的提案是請你們寫個書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6068.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6097.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那至於吳世耀委員的第10案他是要什麼是根據第一項勞基法的變動勞基法是106年修的這個副表是什麼102年編制的我怕秘書長有誤會所以特別的強調不能並同第二案第二案是第二案我的教育補助會是另外一案這個又是勞基法又是另外一案那當然你們可以在書面報告的時候充分的就這不同的重點予以分別序名以上建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6098.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6115.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
主席我可以講兩分鐘好不好?簡單不要一分鐘我講講其實這個法規的規範在32條後面的護表那是9月立委當時的問題我不要再說明了至於這邊的一個涉及到的原因是在僱主事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6116.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6136.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
立法院還是立法委員那因為這就很漫長的這個說明我就不必再提所以我才敢說這個案本身因為106年那是僱主的問題的特修那你的僱主是立法委員還是僱主是立法院所以我才會說這一個跟第二案你如果編了一個經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6138.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6157.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
因為做了一個決議把那個助理費用拉高那自然就這裡就會解決掉至於第三案是我沒有在立法院的時間這個要點我都看過了一個就是一個這個健康檢查會跟這個公衛助理的活動後面會有很多的一個委員提要提的一些主決議這是我等一下再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6160.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6175.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以如果說委員是很堅持這案還是要這樣處理我沒有意見只不過是這裡面的凍結是工會助理的錢這要必須跟必須要講明這個錢動用是在工會助理倒不是一般行政的費用這樣讓與會委員瞭解以上好謝謝那這樣啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6181.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6199.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我想說合併啦,因為那個洪國昌委員提案的100的部分反而民主黨這就沒有意見嘛所以我們剛剛花很多時間其實在談沒有意見的部分那是不是我們就合併凍結,那看看什麼樣的數字這個立法院這邊可以接受,然後立委們也可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6200.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6200.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6216.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6225.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
律師長我要跟你確認你剛提的應該跟我第11案沒有關係吧我11案凍結的是國會交流事務嗎對沒有關係因為我要凍的是國會交流事務裡面的100萬不是公費住宅的100萬這個話要講清楚那翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6235.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6241.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
是,因為剛剛那個秘書長講到重點,這個凍結是凍結的是公費助理的這個費用可是不管是剛剛講的第二案或是現在講的第十案,就都是胡適堯委員這邊提出的他還是涉及到就是公費助理的雇主是誰嗎?這已經是一個長年以來的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6256.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6270.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
中委員您在立法院已經擔任了這麼久的委員應該知道說這個問題是立法院可以解決的嗎對你現在所謂的這個特休換取工資到底是誰去可以認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6272.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6289.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這個助理他有沒有這個加班或者說有沒有什麼特休假這都是由立法委員自己來認定的對然後那你現在這裡的要擴充他還是要回到原來的那個問題點要不然就是修復表 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6291.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6313.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
提高公費助理的費用,讓立法委員們有更多的錢可以去支用。所以其實我看這兩個案子,講來講去就是希望能夠提高公費助理的聘募的費用。那如果是這樣的話,就不如你們就大大方方提案,我們就從現在40幾萬又增加到50幾萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6317.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6334.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
對,否則的話現在就是強人所難讓立法院去提這樣的預算,他們依法又不能提案對這個是我認為說其實吳聖堯委員跟鍾嘉斌委員在寫這兩個案子的時候好像也沒有把相關的法規弄清楚然後一直要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6339.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6355.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我的案子跟這案子有什麼關係?我不是要案子,是因為鍾嘉斌委員您剛剛代替他們兩位講,帶這兩個案子講對,然後這個事實上就是修副表嘛對,回到我們在講就是修副表啊,那你們就可以提案修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6361.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6379.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我們真的希望委員發言前先把來龍去脈釐清香港秘書長就很誠意他又針對我們組織法一條一項一項來說明那我想這樣子啦其實呢主席待會要做一個處理了啦那我只是看到說第11案黃總召所提的案子我們秘書長惡話不說好 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6381.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6381.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
同樣凍結一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6414.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6427.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
錯覺 錯 這個凍結提出書面報紙的凍資剛已經說明了嘛 你如果2月1號送來根本凍不到嘛 但是你們硬是要這樣講 那好我就具體提議第10案100萬 第11案100萬 你們已經接受了 那我建議呢 第二幕 全幕凍200萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6439.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6440.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
好黃委員黃委員你你剛有舉手嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6444.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6470.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我希望我的11案就是11案我不希望跟別人拼我先說明其他委員要提案我都尊重所以剛其他委員提的案子其實主席也聽得到我很少表示什麼樣的意見其他委員的提案我都尊重我其他委員的提案我真的沒有表示太強烈的意見因為其他委員個人委員他們想要達成的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6471.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6483.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那就看立法院這一邊他們整體的運作上是接受還是不接受但是我第11案的部分我不同意跟其他案例我先說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6486.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6491.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們就在預算審查就ok因為那個有關10案跟11案各100萬的部分現在民主黨這邊同意了 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6505.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6507.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
第二幕委員問政業務提案案號第10案第11案 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6539.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6544.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
本目合併凍結第10案100萬,第11案100萬並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後,使得凍支接著處理第三目議事業務,提案案號第12案至第14案 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6565.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6591.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好那我們請提案的吳思堯委員那個說明好主席謝謝那我這邊12 13 14齁都是凍結案啦齁那其實呢我們這裡有看到齁第12案我想這裡面提到的就是我們關於立法院職權行使法還有我們相關的法案在審理當中你看這裡面所說的立法院組織法第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6594.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6597.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
第14條秘書長應秉持院長之命,來指揮監督所屬委員。但是在看來我們第11屆第2會期有諸多的這些亂象,這個其實在上會期甚至在上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6612.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6634.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
類似的情況都是有發生所以我們希望秘書長可以乘院長之命好好地針對這些議事的精進提出個書面報告來這個相當的中性前面這些描述不管是法規執掌的描述還是現況的描述那最後的目的在第三段 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6634.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6657.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
就是希望說能夠秉持我們憲政與權力分立的原則,立法院就我們院會跟委員會失序的部分,我們來精進意識的處理。那尤其是現在有月型惡化的情況,過去在院會裡面上一屆或上上屆我有參與的經驗,那麼已經,我們已經想像說那已經是極限了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6658.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6684.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那麼在議場內用鐵鏈把議場的門鎖起來那個至少在我們努力的其他黨的委員要進入議場開會至少還只是要排除這些器械物理性的就能夠進入最後還是終究能夠達成在議場內由不同黨派的議員不同意見的委員可以在一個議場有不同的意見聲音後討論或決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6686.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6702.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
但是到了本屆尤其是本會期尤其是星期一的時候已經發生了居然可以用各種的方式透明膠帶封門鐵門拉下來連樓梯間都進不來透過人強的方式選擇性的只讓他們認為能夠達成委員會開會的要件比如說我們委員會的職員來進入而最後進入到委員會的會場後 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6716.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6733.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
就可以鎖門關門一黨修法已經到達這個極致的程度是前所未有很難想像那再這樣下去一黨可以修法那就一黨可以修憲那就跟習近平中國人大有何兩樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6734.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6762.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
中國人民大會堂裏面難道可以容許不同意見的聲音出來嗎可以容許其他的意義分子進去開會嗎不可能嘛但是我們台灣的立法院不是的台灣的民主是我們珍貴的資產我們台灣之所以在現在COVID-19之後我們的國會外交國會交流為什麼這麼的頻繁許多其他的歐美民主陣營的國家的國會議員樂於來跟我們交流是因為他們看到了台灣在實現民主的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6765.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6791.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
實踐上他們肯定包括我們在各種進步性的法案的推動他們也表示佩服我們在很多的進步性的立法是亞洲的第一名但是這樣的一個吸引其他民主國家來跟台灣做國會交流的情況卻在這本屆從上會期以降到前天星期一淋漓盡致接下來會到什麼情況我們很難想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6792.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6816.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
所以我們在進行預算審查的時候吳思堯委員的提案也是希望就書面的部分來進行一個檢討那麼縱使不管如何我們希望議事是中立的議事人員是中立的那麼不因為立法院各項委員的黨派分部而受到影響所以才會秉持著這樣的想法要請我們的立法院秘書長我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6818.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6845.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
立法院的議事處能夠就這些議事的相關部分進行一個檢討提出來給委員會書面報告一樣我們都很客氣三個月內提出書面報告就可動之完全沒有要再經過討論同意沒有你們提出的意見我們全都予以尊重但是立法院本身我們要維持意識中立意識效率我們真的要深自檢討以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6848.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6849.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好,翁委員我看到吳思瑤委員這個提案啊這是叫做賊喊抓賊啊這個而且打人的先打人的還在指責別人說是這個保護自己的這樣子的一個情況啊我們知道在 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6873.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6883.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
從立法院的這連續兩個會期在立法院造成衝突的然後破壞公務的都是民進黨委員啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6886.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6909.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
現在呢這個他們的破壞公務都還沒有賠償然後呢還要求說是叫立法院要來檢討相關的這個議事程序這是跟立法院的議事人員有關嗎這是立法委員自己本身的這行為有關吧自己就是這個行使暴力然後幾個譴責案然後也都沒有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6910.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6931.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
然後現在在這個提案單上面寫的剛剛這個中委員有講講的是這個參委會發生了一些衝突那為什麼會發生這樣的一個衝突不就是因為民進黨委員不想要開會啊意識杯葛然後要去霸佔主席台那更何況當時這個拔麥克風的是誰是吳秉瑞委員欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6939.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6949.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
然後那這次在立法院的這個院會裡面然後拿著這個鋼杯保溫杯把桌面砸爛是誰?莊瑞雄委員然後之前這個破壞我們委員會的門然後半夜然後帶的人去把門偷開的這是黃捷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6960.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6960.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
黃委員﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6983.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7010.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不同的政黨有議事攻防我基本上都尊重就各個政黨自己回去各自開記者會就好了你把現在在議事上面的思緒全部推給議事人員要他們去提什麼樣子的方案那簡直是莫名其妙我明確的講這個提案就是莫名其妙12案從頭念到尾 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7012.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7032.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
在指責誰?在指責韓國瑜院長在指責秘書長議事不中立之前晚上他跑到會議室裡面來躲在茶水間暴力攻擊他黨的委員你這些鍋全部都要拖到議事人員上喔我12案堅決反對啊就保留吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7043.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7070.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
民主黨有沒有什麼要補充的我沒辦法答因為這是國會的委員的意識行為我會變說明那這樣我想說大家意見不一致那就只能保留了那我們現在第13案麻煩對13案所以你現在要討論第13案對不對我們不是保留了嗎對對那現在是第13案就是吳思堯的這個案子嘛好請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7072.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7092.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
13案是這樣子13案因為我們立法院職權刑事法經過一個大幅的擴權雖然經過憲法法庭進行憲判後有違憲的部分都已經宣告了但是其他合憲的部分需要更進一步的細緻化的配套那這個部分我們在之前院內我們有多次的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7093.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7122.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
但是呢在根據現有有限的立法院職權新法例子法第46條之二那麼各種的委員會啊雨後春筍一個一個成立那這個成立委員會要成立特別成立調查委員會只要過半數一瞬間就通過了但是接下來的事務是非常的龐雜先不論相關對應的配套單單舉例來說好了一個調查委員會要成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7123.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7126.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那他成立之後他的委員的更換 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7127.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7157.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
到底是不是由黨團依法有需要就更換還是更換後還要回到院會去經過同意這個事情因為主席昨天在場的時候我們也討論過但我這裡不再細表免得我們主席心情不好我還是要說一下這為什麼會產生爭議我說爭議是很客氣的因為我認定瑕疵錯誤是很明顯的根據法條的解釋根本沒有所謂的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7158.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7186.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
調查委員會成員由各黨團來指派是實際需要來更換到院會也只是個查照案居然在首次要選召委的當下能夠去強行的否定黨團他提出的一個更換人選那當然那如果想就下來那麼相關的配套都還沒有更具體的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7187.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7210.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那可能會造成大家這樣的認知認為說這個依法是不是這樣解釋有些困擾但是我這裡談的還不是一些法制面的一個布局還要談到什麼談到人力面的所以呢這裡面呢我們提到說如果調查還要去跑東跑西啊我們這裡面編列的預算實在是不足啊因為在編列這個預算的時候呢例子法到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7212.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7226.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
之二這些相關的委員會要成立多少恐怕當時編列預算的立法院我們的人員也不清楚但是我們還是一樣立法委員不得為增加支出之決議所以我們也不能說 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7228.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7241.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
你不要編太少了,但是這裡吳哲偉委員是說用凍結,那我覺得既然是認為經費編列可能不乎未來實際使用,那麼這裡我覺得以凍結不宜。這裡你改為主決議,我覺得這樣比較好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7242.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7269.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以本案我們是不是請我們秘書長這邊瞭解我們的本意我們覺得除了法規面配套的完備之外那麼如果因應未來立制法46號之二相關的委員會有那麼多的成立可能會增加很多的業務那這些業務增加的人力不能短期不能增加但是業務的費用的支應這些考察才屢廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7270.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7296.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
等等可能會增加那明年預算夠不夠用我們很擔心所以呢我們希望呢未雨綢繆立法院趕快就這個部分去做一個評估那我希望呢用個主決的方式來提醒立法院因應著立執法在擴權之後未違憲宣告的部分儘管配套相對應還不足但是已經有委員迫不及待的透過多數決議的方式要強令 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7296.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7320.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們的議事人員我們的工作人員配合去做這些調查那這時候應贈應阿的這些事務費用應該要予以事前就予以掌握那因為我們不能加預算那我只能說我們也不凍結那但是請改成主決議請立法院未予籌謀予以為評估提個書面報告或之類的好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7321.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7343.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
尊重尊重照辦就改為其決議尊重照辦我想大家都不會有意見那第三改為其決議不過那個中召委這邊我們不要談昨天的事情因為我的個人是這樣國發基金那個我覺得我們就不要在這邊談但是我尊重你的發言機會但是我完全否定你發言的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7345.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7368.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
主席我在講預算欸沒有你剛剛在講什麼你不要把大家當笨蛋好不好你剛才講完現在又要不認我跟你講這種出爾反爾我已經習慣了啦我覺得我的結論就是這樣我尊重各位的發言權利但是我完全否定你的發言內容不要各說各話你認為怎麼樣那是你的事你就自己去講你的好那我們現在審查第14案好啦第14案 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7377.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7398.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
中召委員第13案你要改主決議可是我現在有一個問題剛剛議事人員跟我說這個提案人跟聯署人都沒有你的名字我拿去給委員簽名好不好好可以嗎好那就這樣好那就這樣子好那現在我們審第14案那是不是也是中召委要替吳思堯 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7413.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7414.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
14案目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7422.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7451.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們從最後你看最後一段就可以了請立法院因評估是否接近教育文化委員會的先期溝通模式推廣到其他委員會長里的各部會那麼要求預算送入後則其辦理說明提高預算審議的效率那這個部分因為陳委員也是聯署人那我這裡是覺得因為這個部分我們是希望讓預算的審議更有效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7451.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7479.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那麼凍結不是我們的目的啦我們是希望能夠有所精進那這個部分看陳委員是不是我也覺得應該那個主決議啦這個部分再次強調因為今天會議討論到此我們真的覺得各黨各派各自有民意所託付有各自的堅持跟主張但是預算審議他是一個非常理性的事情也涉及到明年施政 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7479.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7495.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
的兩語所以我們希望這樣的一個預算審議不要淪為一種現場的爭執或臨時起議那我們每個預算提案事前在各委員會都已經有一些既有的成規慣例在運作了那麼吳委員的這個提案當然陳委員的連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7498.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7522.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
就是建議可以參酌教育文化委員會的模式那這是純粹一個參考是不是一定教育委員會最好雖然我也待過教育文化委員會但是畢竟我沒有8個委員會都待過說不定有其他委員會的更好那我覺得這個部分是可以有一個書面報告來研擬那這個部分陳委員也接受我們改為主決議謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7527.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7529.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們現在麻煩提案人吳思瑤委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7555.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7573.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
好這個呢其實啊這個就跟前面幾個呢屬性上有一點點差別啦那因為目前我們在第4幕的立法諮詢業務雖然金額不多但是呢這裡面呢根據我們立法院組織法第28條從25條到26條的這些人員還有跟我們聘用人員聘用條例第7條那這些相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7582.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7604.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
以至於說我們的副研究員、副研究員、助理研究員都沒有辦法以平友能源充任那這是一個法制上的精進那當然如果陳如剛剛主席或者秘書長所表達這個立法院自己修法就好了嗎是沒有錯啦但是立法委員要修的法不是只有立法院本身自己組織上行使的 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7604.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7620.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我認為包括吳世凱委員認為這個法當然最後還是要由立法委員來經過合議的方式討論後決定但是發動機關基於立法院本身自己的需求應該當事人當事機關本身最迫切需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7621.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7648.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以希望我們能夠立法院法制局針對立法院組織法的修法評估你們可以是不是能夠包括考量到教育人員任何條例資格的這些教授副教授助理教授講師我們可以用聘用的方式來支援立法那我們都知道目前以我們目前這些立法諮詢的相關的這些研究人員研究員副研究員助理研究員等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7649.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7657.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個有這樣的名稱title可是實質上呢他跟其他的公務機關他們所 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7658.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7683.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
所編制上的這些人員他們是有差距的啦那麼這個差距我在這裡因為為了春節時間的使用我就不再細表也就是說我們立法院這些諮詢業務來支援立法委員立法的這些重要的這些智囊他們其實徒有研究員副研究員或助理研究員的這個明顯但是他們的實際的待遇他們實際的任用 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7684.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7700.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
的資格以及轉換他們其實相較於其他公務機關或者是學術機關同樣明顯的這些人員是不完全能夠相比所以我們還是很希望這個部分能夠因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7701.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7702.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
拜託秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7719.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7720.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7735.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7763.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
主持法裏面所以委員就是要我尊重我們法制局也是按照當時立法院主主法在貴會所通過的條文因為是大家各黨團都沒有意見通過了那我是補充說聘用人員聘用條例是不能實施的所以當時研究又改成聘任人員所以當時大家通過了這個條文所以已經通過了但是不是這一個主持法還沒有到院會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7764.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7771.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以我們在演繹上還是依照那一個會在跟各位做報告所以我尊重委員的提案聽了秘書長一席話我有點汗顏啦既然這個問題在我們審法制委員會都已經完成了討論也提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7794.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7818.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
當天在處理的時候在哪個委員會處理的時候就是在113年4月21日當時的主席大概就只有中委員嗎對啊所以這個部分條文修正案的時候這一個條文的二十八條是已經通過就大家都接受了但是這個主持法當時還有其他的保留還沒送院會所以這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7820.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7847.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以我說為什麼漢言因為我們委員會大家各黨都同意了然後要到院會去處理但是很遺憾的我們現在院會的程序的排案像這種沒有爭議的案子坦白說現在民進黨是少數我們根本無力無能為力對排案的順序予以影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7848.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7876.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那其實今天這樣提出來其實就是把話講白了秘書長這個涉及到我們本院同仁的權益如果說能夠運用你的影響力對於多數黨對於我們院長尤其是我們的副總召國民黨的黨鞭希望類似這樣沒有爭議的提案不要一天到晚在程序委員會針對性的把別人提案拉下來針對性的把一些爭議的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7877.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7877.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7898.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7922.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
的一個需求那剛剛說明了所以我還是這裡我可以接受看這個陳委員的看法我是覺得說要提出來那目的就是希望說運用各位大家的影響力讓這樣的一個有共識的提案在未來的議案排審上不要在程序委會裡面被無故的刁難程序委會刁難少數黨的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7925.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7941.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
甚至不願意交付討論那已經很離譜了像這樣子委員會已經完全沒有爭議的案子到院會還得不到處理的時程這個我們也覺得很遺憾所以民主黨這個部分如果你願意來運用影響力那我們這個提案我們覺得陳委員可以考慮改為主決議謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7946.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7971.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
因為這法裡面在報告主席跟各位委員這案的立案主制法是不問條文修正案因為它還有涉及到植菌處等等所以只有通過當天的貴會在審查只有通過這一個條文其他都還保留在貴會的所以這一個案裡面如果中委員也同意說改為主決議我是非常謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7972.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7995.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那如果要凍結 那我們也尊重委員的提案 我就只能跟各位這樣報告是 那我覺得 民主黨您的談話我覺得有模仿兩可勒 那個凍 剛剛您對凍結很計較 你說凍結也可以 那主決議也可以 我只是說我們希望如果能改成主決議 讓我們秘書長 有這樣的影響力 讓我們的副總召 讓我們的韓院長 讓我們的陳委員會 這樣的案子能不能趕快的在院會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8002.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8002.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
主決意就是…… |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8024.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8024.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8043.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8069.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我們目前是對於排案議程是完全沒有任何的影響能力我這個老實說民進黨目前在我們國會裡面立法院是少數黨我們所有的提案經常在程序委員會被刁難本來不應該連到院會報告都被刁難我是覺得過去至少在排案進入委員會是不會刁難的那當然這個案子不一樣這個案子是委員會已經處理可以送交院會了那一個條文嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8072.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8087.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
不是,因為是立法院組織法的部分討論修正案在審議了很多條文這個28條當時在貴會審查的時候你當主席只有過那個條文其他還有其他的條文都保留還沒有協商是這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8090.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8090.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
第4幕 立法院執行業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8121.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8125.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
第15案改為主決議接著處理第5目國會圖書業務提案案號第16案請吳思堯委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8144.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8164.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
美國的國會圖書館可以說是美國圖書館界首屈一指的所以我們都很期待台灣未必要像美國那麼強大但是我們國會的民主能夠來支撐台灣的國家發展大家是共同的期望那這裡面國會圖書館過去一直有委員來關注那這裡面有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8166.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8181.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
立法院國會擴建規劃及監督委員會已經就立法院擴建基地評選分析報告討論那未來是不是能在這樣的討論當中將國會圖書館的願景及策略規劃特別的放進去那因為這個項目有3885萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8184.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8206.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
金額呢不少那能夠提供的服務我相信也是不錯那因此這樣的一個意見呢因為剛剛包括我們在場的陳俊宇委員一直也都很關心國會的擴建基地的評選分析包括他過去都在追蹤也對我們國會未來能夠擴建這個規劃的進度也很了解那這個吳委員的提案是希望在這樣的一個大的框架底下對於未來國會圖書館的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8208.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8222.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
愿景和策略應該有詳加的說明那這個部分我也是尊重吳思堯委員請我代為提案那因為陳委員對我們國會的擴建改建都很注意那也是希望能夠得到我們大家的支持那麼請我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8224.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8241.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
秘書長則曾趕快提出來一個書面的內容針對國會圖書館的部分或許國會的整體的牽線擴建知識體大但是未來的國會裡面的國會圖書館應該有什麼樣的願景功能這個你們詳述我們會真的會支持好 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8246.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8260.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
還是針對我們這個國會擴建或是簽建的部分還是就叫我們的秘書長因為不管是要就6個點子來挑選一個適當的位置或是在縣子這邊來做擴建的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8262.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8280.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我相信應該所有的立法委員都會支持只是要這個動作要趕快啟動不管是這個政黨的協商那聽取各黨的這個委員的意見阿對於我們未來整個這個擴建跟遷建的這些工程應該是要盡早來做一個詳實的一個規劃那 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8283.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8310.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
避免說我們現在一直編列預算那一直保留或是說未來我們這個錢假設說我們現在通過之後可能在這個縣子這邊來做圖書館的相關設備的擴充等等那可是未來可能我們這個立法院是簽件那就變成這個預算可能沒有達到實質的一個意義所以還是拜託我們秘書長跟我們相關部會可以對這個部分盡早來做這個相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8312.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8323.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
細項的規劃也明確的能夠選出一個適當的位置讓這個立法院要改建或是擴建要簽建都能夠及早來完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8326.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8328.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
請秘書長說明所以秘書長的意思就是凍結部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8355.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8374.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好那OK好第五目國會圖書館業務提案案號第16案本目凍結一百萬並呃針對凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後使得動之接著處以第六目公報業務提案號第17案好對 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8383.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8398.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我這邊簡單的說明一下,主要就是說我們認為立法院在環保方面尤其是印製紙張上面是可以考量用無紙化的方向去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8399.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8426.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以這個部分我們希望說因為每年在紙張還有墨水的印製上面都是達到上千萬那在減少紙張或是一些油墨印刷上面這可能是比較不環保那我們想說現在政府也是推暢環保那是不是說在這塊部分能夠立法院有所作為來秘書長尊重委員的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8427.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8438.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
第6目公報業務提案案號第17案本目凍結100萬並針對凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後時的凍支接著處理第8目一般建築及設備提案案號第18案至第25案我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8455.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8462.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
第18案提案人吳思堯請說明謝謝主席今天吳委員的很多提案其實展現出他個人對於包括國會的願景還有對於一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8481.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8496.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
都市的意象以及一個公有聽色應有的樣貌那這裡面主要談的是其實這裡面有描述到我們部門聯立法院的縣子他是一個第二高等女校的校舍 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8497.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8519.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那其實目前我們到112年為止已經有包括6個地方包括中任紀念堂園區、空軍總部就職、土城看守所的縣址、成功領營區、高鐵的彰化車站特定區還有中興文化創意產業園區這6個地方那這已經是去年的時候就已經有完成6處了 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8520.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8521.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
﹚立法院主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8551.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8575.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
整個營建工程的推動所以其實留著這樣的一個議案至少讓我們表達出委員們對於本案的關切那秘書長如果能夠接受這樣的案子其實也未來如果你送出書面報告也能順利解凍了那表示我們共同的把這個案子往前推進這個都不是壞事 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8579.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8599.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
尊重尊重就是按照提案委員的尊重好那就OK給我1秒第7號那就動好本案就是第19案的部分動100沒有意見好那在第 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8601.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8611.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
第19案的部分就凍結100萬,那我想後面是否就是請鍾嘉賓、昭偉能夠一併做提案說明? |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8613.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8620.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我先跟中召委報告一下因為21案謝榮介他是改組決議嘛所以後面到25案都是您的案子那我就從20案開始我了解了解了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8636.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8662.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
20案其實今天也是有點難為情因為自己立法院的事情拿到我們用我們預算的事情來討論什麼電梯、空調、沖水馬桶那這個案子因為我們的總務處已經有做說明了那我覺得我可以接受我們總務處在這個改善上的用心所以本案我可以接受改為主決議好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8665.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8686.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
主席要不要先處理,主決議先發給大家看嗎?因為他們都準備好了。主席在發的過程當中我就在進行22案。那22案這個真的要跟大家來做報告跟委員報告,因為目前AI高暢入雲,事實上我們過去立法院還維持著 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8687.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8704.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
以數位科技來講是時期時代的作為我們每次看到議事人員很辛苦尤其在我們議事工房上有時候以前祭出暗海戰術我還記得在第9屆的時候那個暗海戰術幾千個提案不要說我們委員要在議場裡面徹夜不斷電表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8707.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8731.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我們的意識人員宣讀啊 宣讀到昏倒啊 這個可能我們主席吳釗偉如果你又翻翻過去第九屆吼 真的有這樣子念到昏倒 所以我們真的很不忍 那現在有AI有智慧的應用 那其實這樣的讀稿的部分呢 可以用取代用人工來宣讀 這才不會造成我們意識人員他自己身體上生態上不可負 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8731.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8731.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8750.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8750.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8779.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8796.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我這邊跟那個中央委員稍微說明一下因為我們其實在經費集合委員會的時候其實都有要求秘書處這邊要做那麼他們也其實也都已經在處理了也在進行各個不同的這種系統的測試對那麼我認為我們這個是在這個會期吧第幾次的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8804.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8831.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
對他們都有提供給我們報告了所以我的建議是說可以請秘書長這邊再把我們上次經費集合委員會然後要求總書這邊提供的報告然後再傳給中嘉賓委員看那麼因為我們都很關心這件事情也認為真的是進入到數位跟AI時代不需要再那麼勞煩議事委員一直不斷的念那麼這個部分我其實非常支持您的看法只是說因為這件事情已經在做了是不是就不要凍結這個案子了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8836.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8836.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8854.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8878.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8878.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8895.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好啊是不是我們提一個整個技術的報告資料給委員這邊啊可不可以改成主決議我我很欣慰哈今天終於跟翁委員有共識哈因為他在經費集合委員會啊他也知道你們有這些努力但是我不是嘛所以我只能透過預算的審議來要求那這樣好了啦哈為了表示誠意哈 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8897.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8923.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那這個部分我也同意不用凍結那我用改組決議但是組決議待會送給大家那我剛剛聽了翁委員的一個說明也聽了我們處長的說明要注意我這邊提出這個我們不見得委員會有逐字稿但是這個部分務必要在組決議裡面把它加註意見因為那個組決議我後來聽一聽因為目前這個AI的技術研發它需要大量的數據那大量的數據在華文華語的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8926.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8956.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8956.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8959.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我是覺得未來如果要進行AI化那我們在採購的時候一定要非常非常的嚴格的註明因為我們是什麼華文華語很容易啊資訊商啊他來啊他的語音模型數據資料庫他就直接拿人家現成的買授權就來用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8976.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9003.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那會完全造成我們搞不好立出中華人民共和國的憲法這個會很擔心啊所以我這個部分是不是你們主決的部分把這個部分加注進去特別注意到台灣跟中國在華文華語上的差異性避免踩到這個雷好不好你們那個主決這個可以彎一點我可以同意改成主決但主決再改一下我們先暫保留後面再來處理我同意不要凍結我們把這個主決寫好一點好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9004.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9027.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
主要就是以採用我們本國廠商的開發的系統為主對我們在上次我們已經有講過不過也尊重對中央中委員的意見那我們是請中委員就接下來繼續他們你主決議的過程中先剛剛的20案20案是不是我就把它唸一遍我就看同意的話大家同意就好了20案改為主決的部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9029.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9042.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
原件請立法院規劃立法院委員研究大樓公測服務品質提升方案就提書面報告就這樣接下來是那個第23案23案的這個資訊設備其實在我們其他機關的預算審查每次只要審到資訊設備大概都會被檢列會被嚴格的檢視那在這裡面我特別要說明的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9059.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9085.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
目前我們院內的這些他目前以114年度編了6000萬他就是來汰換超過年限或者說原廠不再資源認體的無線網路基地台及供電型的網路交換器設備他並沒有辦法提升技術跟品質設備那在之前我有跟我們的資訊處反映過我說目前我們立法院大概有自己的防火牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9087.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9106.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那我們的防火牆當中呢我們對外的聯絡委員的部分在研究室我們的頻寬雖然防火牆是一體的但是對外的網路頻寬我們是租用民間的台智光那至於我們其他委員研究室以外我們院內的那個部分我們是另外有系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9107.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9130.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我要再次的強調現在立法院是我們中華民國台灣民主制度最脆弱的部分就是被資訊滲透被打擊我們這邊處理的很多是國家重要的資訊但是如果將立法院駭客入侵將我們癱瘓或竊取機密情資這會對我們國家造成很大的傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9130.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9157.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那我一直關心的就是說立法院本身對自己治安的防護有沒有足夠那委員本身他們的問政所需要的平寬是否足夠那我那天才知道說居然我們雖然說是同一個防火牆但是在我們內部的對外聯繫上卻是不同的系統在提供我們平寬的服務這一點我是非常的擔心所以才會希望說資訊處能夠呢在這個部分上有一個比較嚴謹完整的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9160.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9180.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
讓我們委員在讓我們全國的人民尤其是在其他的公務機關公務機關那麼多國會聯絡人每逢預算審議的時候那麼多的機密資料帶來跟委員做報告那委員用辦公室的網路設備就對外聯繫那是很可怕的所以我這裡是不是請主席讓我們的資訊處就這一點我們的擔憂做一個簡要的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9185.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9209.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
麻煩說明報告主席跟委員有關評判的部分的話上一次跟委員這邊來報告我們會後的話我們也去看就研究室的整個評判部分我目前大概是查最近一個月已經查超過一半以上目前各研究室300名的那個專線的話大概峰值大概只用到100多都沒有超過200我們看目前看的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9212.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9234.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
也跟委員報告因為會後也跟委員這邊的研究室在討論因為除了評判的部分的話看各研究室目前都是沒有超過峰值最主要是搭配軟體因為可能各個委員裡面有使用一些軟體可能不一樣我們也去問了其他有做直播的委員有兩位有直接做直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9235.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9239.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們有問幾個他們是說目前是沒有什麼問題因為我們在看評判的話目前是可以的委員關心的話是整個資訊安全部分的話這邊我們會寫一個詳細的報告給那個委員會這邊因為資訊安全也是處裡面非常重視的一個課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9255.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9256.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
司法及法制委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9279.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9301.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
依照治安法規定的部分要辦理相關的一些治安防護措施我們也有做一些內部的一些會議每個月的話我都會召開會議來看相關的一些害性的一些狀況整個內容的話我會寫成一個那個資訊安全那個評估報告提給委員會裡面來知道院裡面到底怎麼做的評估的部分的話跟會後的話委員直播那邊有問題的部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9302.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9316.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我會來協助來處理因為委員那邊我也看到委員那邊的你們真正的峰值也大概用到100多枚而已根本沒有滿阿所以那個直播軟體可能跟硬體的搭配的話這邊我們會來協助來處理以上報告我想資訊處長是專業啦但是如果去想想看如果廠商提供給我們的峰值是300枚阿我們的峰值只有到100枚阿我們就斷線了其實到底他給我們的這個規格是真的是假的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9333.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9344.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我覺得這個從他們的設備他們在我們院區外的設備的裝置是可以去查出來的不然他推銷員跟你講的說沒有問題你們113位委員研究室我們都給你300枚但是他在外面的聯網的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9351.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9378.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
前面給你承諾的水管都很粗,後面的集水管比前面還細,那就根本做不到嘛,所以我想處長你應該了解我的意思吧,你們也要去查,不要他口頭上抬字光跟你說我都給你承諾承諾,你們都最多也用到100枚,有沒有想過大家的峰值沒有超過100枚,可能他的提供的原來外面的原始的就不夠,所以我們到100枚這樣就斷線了,所以他們都說你們都沒有超過100枚啊,因為我們到100枚就斷了啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9379.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9380.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
可以嗎?可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9407.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9434.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
主席謝謝你給我們一些剛才的一些知識因為我也不太了解謝謝民主黨那是不是接下來就繼續第24案麻煩總統你後面這個設備我很關心就是其實大家現在看看今天是非常冷窗戶都關著我們的空調開但又不敢開太冷但是我們這邊又少了一個什麼室內的空氣品質的二氧化碳濃度的監督那其實我們教育委員會是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9435.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9437.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
其實每個會議室不見得都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9437.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9465.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以我這裡面呢就是提出說是不是為了考慮到我們的問政大家的不是只有立法委員所有在開會的這些工作人員列席機關列席代表都有在內但是很奇怪啊這個事情齁從第9屆那時候我看教文就有裝了但是其他委員會沒有改啊所以我就很疑惑為什麼這幾年我們的到底是怎麼回事是不是只有教文委員會那邊比較空氣容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9466.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9466.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
﹚立法院主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9480.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9505.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9505.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9525.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
各會議室裏面他大概上禮拜就跟我講了因為我知道你在諮詢我又在看啦所以他們也認真在做了各會議室都要去處理啦不僅我們三年後各會議室他有提了一個給我看了也有一個產商的報價我大概看過啦我也看一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9528.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9537.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
他報價大概要多久我就不清楚就是他有給我看了當時他的規劃的情況跟廠商的情況我是有看過我看廖市長大概我不太他已經去在規劃也給我看過廠商的這個報價大概時間上大概多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9563.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9583.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
下個會期開議之前完成好嗎?下個會期開議之前因為我們現在距離會期結束也不會就是三個月內可以不可以就下個會期開議之前就是差不多也差不多差不多三個月那你就開議前好不好對開議前就下個會期開議前然後就改成主決議謝謝你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9591.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9592.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
對,下一個還是再麻煩總召委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9618.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9623.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們覺得這個部分因為這個是過去沒有做過的那所以是不是這個噪音檢測設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9626.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9654.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個部分也能夠考慮因為我們的麥克風其實大家都在關注麥克風本身麥克風本身是會受到意識杯葛的一些損傷但是我們的耳末也經常受到會議期間也不當的經常性的習慣性的咆哮那這個耳末受損這個很難恢復麥克風如果說因為意識杯葛工房被拉壞了修一修就好人體的零件 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9655.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9679.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這沒得更換啦,或者更換要很花錢啦,所以我是覺得這個噪音的檢測為了維護我們議事的這個品質也避免在場的人員的健康受到受損,我們覺得對於這種不要再細數的這些噪音內容我們希望能夠有一些監測或防範或什麼的方式來處理,大概是這樣的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9684.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9694.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我其實也呼應中委員的意見那確實我在立法院進來將近10個月我也是常常會對於這種突然之間的咆哮大聲然後噪音嚇一跳可是我發現這個跟我們裝測噪音檢測設備是不是有關係因為其實是常常有些委員就突然爆衝突然叫很大聲而且不見得是我們司法法制委員會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9711.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9739.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
都是外面來的委員所以像這樣的情況說這個裝飾噪音檢測設備那是不是以後應該可能在大家麥克風前面都要裝一個還是我們以後有特定的委員他特別大聲的那就不應該來我們司法法制委員會我覺得汪委員他這樣講我也很微妙其實有時候委員會的噪音是特定委員到哪個委員會哪個委員會就有咆哮的噪音 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9741.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9760.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
到底這個噪音檢測是要裝在委員會的牆壁上還是裝在委員的身上這個我們就不清楚了沒想到這個翁委員這麼幽默我也沒想過這個方式這個噪音員要把噪音檢測放在噪音員身上其實我是想說接收端因為會議室是聽的人受影響那咆哮的人他聲音很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9764.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9786.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這個我們比較難去做處理我是覺得我們是不是比較務實一點你很難在特定人身上裝個噪音檢測去測量他機動性的跟著他跑不如我們就是固定的會議室有一個基本的偵測那大家知道之後主席就會善意的提醒行委員保持這個風度不要過度的聲量大損及到其他人的健康我想這樣應該可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9787.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9788.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
議員們的聲音實在太大聲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9805.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9819.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這個突然之間要咆哮大叫然後讓我們都不知所措然後這個耳膜真的是都有受損好不好是很多事情都聽不太清楚因為一直重複然後一直很大聲的這個大聲嚷嚷這個真的是問題嚴重當然了就是噪音檢測設備部分如果說我們這個立法院這個經費足夠的話那也可以在每個會議室都可以裝設好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9836.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9856.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
麻煩秘書長因為這兩岸這一個剛才空氣跟這個噪音是同樣一個廠商報價兩個是一起在一起的各會議室都會做每一個會議室大概一個會議室3萬多塊錢所以包含會議室大概也不到30萬所以這個有含噪音跟空氣的兩個一起的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9865.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9873.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
有這個功能,報章剛才總事跟我講兩功能都有,是這樣的,也跟各位了解。 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9876.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9893.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
主席主席我這還是要具體描述一下因為我們沒有翁委員想法這麼先進我是覺得這個廠商都講三萬多我不覺得單價高但是能滿足我們的功能所以他能夠即時反應比如說裝在這裡突然聲音的咆哮砰80db他馬上就一個紅燈閃那我們就知道現在因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9898.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9926.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因果要明確嘛突然的噪音是誰造成的馬上就知道主席會說這個紅燈亮了請委員降低你的聲量但是你不要弄那個數字上的我們看不到的你就是弄一個很具體的即時反應讓主席可以維持會長秩序的這樣子我才能達到效果不然的話你裝那個空氣的那個品質二氧化碳的濃度起起伏伏如果你不去看你根本不會知道現在二氧化碳的濃度多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9927.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9938.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
但是噪音的咆哮的危害是大家馬上會受到影響那有那個客觀的指標告訴大家的確當下的咆哮太大聲的主席紅燈亮了那個委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9941.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9958.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
請冷靜請冷靜好不好那個主席也認同吧這樣也比較有助於你的意識組成中委員的意見非常好最好能夠去買到那種AI系統他會及時抓臉然後看到誰的聲音很大聲立刻就說比如說中委員中委員你的聲音太大了請小聲然後類似是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9961.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9984.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們總部處在細節跟廠商在研擬剛才委員所提的那些重點我們在仔細在跟廠商說要加上人臉辨識系統他說要加那種那個偵測掃描要加人臉辨識系統有沒有想到會員這個對科技的沒有完全沒有落後沒有沒有畢竟當過ACC委員我其實對AI科技還滿了解的法庭也是用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9986.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10009.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我沒有意見,我是說法庭現在也是他會去追是誰在發言,就是鏡頭就拍他主決議然後按照委員的意思去描述都簽名了嗎?要簽名 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10031.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10037.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
現在法庭都這樣啊就是誰講話他就直接鏡頭就會拉過去啊這早就建制了啊就採購設備以具有什麼什麼的功能為家對因為也不知道到底有沒有這樣的這個系統設備這是我們想像想到的買這樣的一個噪音測試系統對 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10062.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10072.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
請問一下,因為現在那個法庭他的筆錄是AI化嘛所以你講話的時候他抓到你之後他的筆錄就會跳出來了所以他是本來就會抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10212.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10221.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
中委員再麻煩你二十五萬簽一下二十五萬我也沒那麼多錢借你 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10257.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10262.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
第8目一般建築及設備提案號第18案之第25案第18、22、1、22、24、25改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10267.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10273.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
本目合併凍結兩百萬,並針對各凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後,使得凍支。繼續處理主決議提案號26至48案。我的資料好,第26案請問第26案請問有無其他意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10297.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10314.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
沒有的話我們就依照主決議通過27案請問有其他意見?第二十七案機關有意見?那就依主決議通過第二十八案機關有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10317.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10345.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我們就依照文字修正後通過第二十九案 測案第三十案 請問機關有意見 遵照辦理那就依照文字修正後通過第三十一案 機關有意見 遵照辦理那就依主決議通過第三十二案 機關有意見 遵照辦理依主決議通過三十三案 機關有意見 遵照辦理依主決議通過第三十四案 請問機關有意見 遵照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10345.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10371.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
好,那就依主決意通過。第35案請問機關有意見。遵照辦理。那就依主決意通過。第36案請問機關有意見。遵照辦理。好,就依文字修正後通過。第37案請問機關有意見。遵照辦理。好,那依文字修正後通過。第38案請問機關有意見。遵照辦理。好,那依主決意通過。第39案請問機關有意見。遵照辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10374.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10375.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
一組決議通過,第40案請問機關有無意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10375.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10377.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
遵照辦理一組決議通過,第41案請問機關有無意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10377.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10379.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
遵照辦理一組決議通過,第42案機關有無意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10379.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10379.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
遵照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10388.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10407.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
主決於通過第43案 機關有異見 遵照辦理 文字修正後通過第14案 機關有異見 遵照辦理 主決於通過第45案 測案第46案 測案第47案 機關有異見 遵照辦理 主決於通過第48案 機關有異見 遵照辦理 主決於通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10416.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10438.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
主決議提案案號第二十六案至第四十八案第二六二七三一三二三三三四三五三八三九四十四一四二四四四七四八案照案通過第二八三十三六三七四三案依修正後通過第二十九四五四六預測案 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10440.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10450.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
本日議程討論事項已經處理完畢做以下宣告一四年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分審查完畢提報議員會議員會討論前需交由黨團協商議員會討論時由吳昭偉中線說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10460.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10482.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
有關本日下午議程討論事項通過修正之預算提案,請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後,送交主席臺均列入公報記錄,通過之決議原例文字授權主席及議事人員處理。本次會議議程所列事項均已處理完畢。會議進行到此結束,現在散會。謝謝大家。 |
| IVOD_ID |
16397 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16397 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-20 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-19T14:00:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-19T16:56:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |