| IVOD_ID |
163951 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163951 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-08T13:57:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-08T14:09:50+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f0233cd0619a8ff002e1ee5702b4083fcea2f7e777e01e95441e0052ed6558bba58ef45d272994b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:57:52 - 14:09:50 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、勞動部部長及衛生福利部部長針對「災後復原重建及清理因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另邀請國防部、經濟部、內政部、賑災基金會列席備詢。【10月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席麻煩有請環境部部長請環境部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
16.628 |
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黃委員好部長好延續上一次質詢的主題上一次在七月颱風造成嘉義那邊的制洪池11.4萬片的光電板毀損那天的質詢我記得很清楚有一個官員站在您現在站的位置上跟我保證99%都已經清理完成了結果後來事後的檢證發現他在備詢台上面所講的完全不是真的 |
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45.29 |
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光嘉義滯洪池的部分後續所產生的問題跟爭議我想拖了蠻久了啦後來你應該是你也意識到這件問題的嚴重性你自己也有下去關心媒體上面報導我都有看到但除了嘉義的滯洪池以外我要問的是另外一個比較制度面上面的問題所謂制度面上面的問題是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.857 |
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85.589 |
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大家後來陸陸續續發現光電板對台灣的環境所造成的破壞不是只有在嘉峪的滯洪池2022年高雄大宿區51公頃的山坡地不用環評變更成光電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.117 |
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105.263 |
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當然後來開發的區域跟本來抱準的區域有一些差距所以他也遭到檢察官起訴但是這個例子讓我們看到當不用環評的時候他會出現對於環境、對於自然、對於生態所會造成的浩劫 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.503 |
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132.958 |
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這整件事情就會回到之前我在追蹤光電閉岸的時候大概是一個縣一個縣逐步的處理從嘉義處理到台南市屏東的這塊地方是未來會陸續繼續處理下去的問題我們先看當初3D集團的宗家村跟開洋集團的蔡中榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
134.158 |
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148.435 |
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他們共同合資在平俄公路旁邊要通往墾丁國家公園的路上的山坡地開發了130公頃的山坡地一樣是免環評直接就變更成廣電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
150.212 |
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170.862 |
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當然 宗家村跟蔡中榮針對有關於這個光電廠他們的開發涉及到有關財報不實的部分目前檢調正在偵辦當中但是我必須要說這整起弊案恐怕涉及的不是只有財報不實當初怎麼准的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.704 |
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191.002 |
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問題非常非常的大我們先來看一下當初在開發那個地的時候屏東山坡地的保育區在2021年的時候部長應該可以看得到資料全部都整理出來本來是山坡地的保育區 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.558 |
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217.14 |
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結果呢就直接變更成是光電特定專用區這個山坡地的保育區變更成光電特定專用區的這個部分這個是屏東縣政府自己做的決定還是有會中央主管機關這個我不清楚這個你不清楚嗎因為我沒有參與這個沒有關係 是不是你會後請環境部的同仁去理解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.068 |
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238.116 |
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會不會再提供資料給我好嗎因為那個不是在你任內的事情我不會要你負責啦但是整件事情的不透明性非常的高所謂不透明性非常的高這個山坡壁保育區啊怎麼會變成光電特定專用區啊這個事情我從公開資訊啊我找不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.13 |
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255.89 |
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我覺得非常的虎魚啊怎麼這麼重要的山坡地保育區就可以這樣幹這不關你的事但是我下一個問題來了之前您提過除了重要的濕地以外之前的規範都不需要經過環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
257.461 |
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281.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後後來出現了蠻大的問題以後你們應該是在去年年底今年年初的時候頒布了新的規定那依照你們所頒布新的規定這樣的區域需不需要經過環評如果是按照現在這個做法的話這是都需要環評這個都需要環評嗎對 按照我們今年1月公布的那所以過去已經準了就準了不用再重做了 不用再重做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
308.042 |
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那你會不會覺得就像我上次跟你講的嘛前面的全部都放啦放完了以後才頒布規定要還平所以搞到你們頒布還平了以後到現在大家都不用申請還平了因為要過的全部都過啦鵝包委還有很多也想開發的例如說我們也被我們退回去要還平被退回去的屏東有好幾個案子所以基本上我們就照按照原來的法規制定走 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.093 |
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325.326 |
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原來的法規你講的是修正前還是修正後我們按修正後按修正後的規定我上一次問你的時候修正後針對這一種光電區的開發申請了幾件環評上一次你給我的答案是零件但現在累積到了幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.46 |
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之前 最近有送 包含屏東有幾個 屏東的三寶 那個被我們退回去那其他的話就是屬於路易福 其他的還有幾件其他的 這要問農研署沒有關係 一樣 會後 會後目前沒有 目前那個已經被我們退回去了所以只有一件嘛 對上一次是零件嘛 現在是一件嘛因為你剛回答的方式講的好像有很多件啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
350.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
沒有沒有沒有 其實全世界的環評光電壓環評也都是這兩年才發生的這個事沒有關係啦 先不用扯到全世界怎麼樣我們就針對問題回答嘛我上次問你告訴我是零件嘛今天我再問你一開始說好幾件現在講了半天只有一件被你們退回嘛那個算是三件三件 三件全部都被你們退回了好來 下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
水滅型光電廠納入環評上次我質詢你這個問題的時候你們說你們會再討論會再研議嗎目前有結論了嗎目前其實不是只有這個還有其他的項目那因為在我們的環評的裡面的因環評的項目的執法裡面都有一些規定那我們定期都會檢視目前我們已經有這是你們新的規定沒有嗎所以我上次才會問水滅型還沒有你未來會加入嗎我們現在目前在討論這個事情還需要討論多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為我們剛發了一個問各式各樣的大家的意見 公眾的意見哪些需要加進去所以我們還要一段時間 可能一兩個月吧我一個觀念跟部長交換你們拖得越久 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
435.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
業者要搞就趁這段時間趕快搞包委員不會的為什麼不會現在不是不用環評嗎現在不用環評就跟屏東的山坡地一樣啊趁不用環評的時候趕快搞啊等到你們要環評的時候我已經搞完了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
436.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
過去發生的事情不就是這樣嗎報告委員你說的那個大樹那個地方對不起我講的不是大樹的地方我現在前一個案子是屏東平和公路旁邊3D集團在搞的最近被檢調偵辦的案子我剛講啦之前不要環評啊依照你們新的規定要環評啊但是之前過了就過了現在拿他沒皮條啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
490.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
正是因為這樣的思維這樣的政策這樣子的法律適用我才會問你們水面型的環評還要評估多久嗎你說還要研議還要聽取社會各界的意見那我現在擔心的事情是什麼你們研議的越久大家就趁這段時間趕快搞啊我有說錯嗎就趁你們研議的時候我趕快搞啊等你們研議出來頒布法規的時候我已經搞完啊這樣就不用環評啊這樣不是在開 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
493.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
503.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
大開後門給業者嗎這個是我的質疑啊從前面發生的事情我覺得我今天提出來的質疑非常的合理啊部長我有說錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
535.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
基本上這個也有主管機關 能源署他們會自己做判斷要不要還平的主管機關什麼時候變成能源署了能源署他們也是目的事業主管之一所以現在是環境部認為要不要還平這件事情由能源署決定是這樣嗎我們也在修正所以我才問你要修正多久嘛我們現在在預告我從頭到尾就在問這個問題啊我才請教你要修正多久啊我們希望快的話年底可以預告完整年底喔 我們再來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
536.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
540.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
國家風景區內烏山頭水庫設置光電盤要還比嗎這個是2022年的事情 是這個當年是不用的 現在呢現在我們的規定還沒有對嘛 未來可以討論嘛這個不就是我的point嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
555.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
之前不用啊 你新的規定還是不用啊你現在在研議持續的不用啊在你不用的時間當中我就趕快做啊你覺得我現在是在危言聳聽嗎我直接代部長看啊當初山頭水庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
571.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
588.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
前一陣子大家發現上面有那麼大的光電板的時候雨晴一片華藍啊我後來開始去追這個案子的時候發現不得了啊現在做完了只是第一期耶做完了只是第一期耶第二期在哪裡第二期在今年夏天的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
589.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
610.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
人家的法說會就已經講了我們烏山頭不是只有要做一期我們還準備要做第二期烏山頭二期水面型光電籌設作業進行中這個是現在進行式如果是現在進行式的話按照部長剛剛您給我們這麼清楚的法規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
612.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
637.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
生效前生效後現在還在研議當中的說明那等於就是告訴這個業者說現在還沒有規定要還平所以不用還平我們就繼續趕快搞不是這樣嗎這正是我擔心的事情這正是我擔心的事情為什麼上一次質詢的時候提出這個問題我們從具體的案子裡面就可以看得出來我們為什麼要關心這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為這是現在進行式啊按照你剛剛的說法100%用您剛剛的說明跟解釋這個第二期就不用環評啊 我有說錯嗎還是您認為說這不關環境部的事叫能源署拒絕叫能源署不准他再繼續在烏山頭水庫上面放光電板就好了這到底是誰的權責是環境部的還是能源署的還是你們要先開一個會再決定這是誰的權責部長我有說錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
672.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
699.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我有說錯嗎沒有啊exactly就是我的問題啊最後一個啦我們大家都要跟時間賽跑環境部要去聽社會各界的意見順便目的事業主管機關經濟部能源署的意見也聽一聽我都尊重但是我現在要告訴部長的是什麼相關的修法我們已經提出來了把它放在所謂的行政meeting當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
701.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
讓你們掌控本來是希望給你們彈性給你們方便希望你們好好做但是如果做出來是這麼令人失望的話那立法者別無選擇我們就只能透過立法來加以規範好 謝謝謝謝黃委員發言 |