| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d2d34adc683ae39a19b5fa2f296a9353478081dad70f87c469044bddf69a38ed95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（處理）12月16日、18日及19日（三天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
41341 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 19:59:00 |
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我們現在開會繼續開會我們是三天一次會請議事人員宣讀討論事項討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分不含國家安全局部分宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1992.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2020.95 |
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我們在場委員有陳永康委員另外我們今天列席的官員因為今天要審查總預算我們由顧立雄部長來率隊出席另外跟本會先做個宣告陳永康委員也麻煩告訴我們不同黨派的同事因為禮拜四總統府例行會有跟國防部的會議這是您了解所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2021.59 |
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2041.75 |
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原則上我們在審查預算期間部長要全程在場但是明天大概接近中午的時候我待會看價單他們價單要送進來我們明天會有準一小段時間讓國防部長去參加總統府的會議這是尋往例這個一併跟各位來做宣告好接下來是副參謀總長執行官黃志偉上將 |
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2046.584 |
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2074.378 |
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你這個職務第一次來嗎好歡迎來我們楊基隆嘗試接下來是權動署署長白潔龍總督察長是總督察長張元勛參事石文榮政務辦公室主任陳道輝政戰局局長陳玉玲軍備局局長林文祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2076.547 |
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2104.522 |
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主計局局長謝其賢軍醫局局長蔡建松站規司司長黃文啟資規司司長鄧克雄法律司司長沈世偉整評司司長苗慧芬國防採購事主任趙雅萍政風事主任王正國 |
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2107.332 |
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2122.085 |
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主計事主任楊登武人事事主任徐惠美人事參謀次長是次長劉佩智情報參謀次長是次長謝日昇作戰及計劃參謀次長是次長陳文心後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳翔 |
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2133.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2143.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長鄧恩蓮訓次是次長張俊志陸軍參謀長陳建義你怎麼被發配到那邊去了海軍參謀長邱俊榮空軍參謀長王德陽 |
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2161.684 |
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2190.319 |
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我現在座位沒關係我們待會還是要到協商桌後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉縣指部參謀長呂正芳陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤支通電軍指揮部參謀長陳俊良軍情局局長楊敬澀電展室主任郭志國 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2192.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2213.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國防大學教育長李承忠中正國防幹部預備學校校長陳順如中科院院長李世強主計總處專委邱碧珠好跟各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2215.512 |
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2231.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
先宣布一下今天開會的方式今天繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分不含國家安全局的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2232.159 |
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2249.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
今天進行提案處理那根據處理的慣例我們會採取先機密後公開來減少清場的次數那待會我們在處理的時候不管在機密預算或公開預算如果遇到有爭議 |
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2250.845 |
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2271.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
無法達成共識我們會把它移到第二輪後續再處理我們務必處理完善讓大家充分表達我再宣布一次待會如果有預算是行政部門跟立法部門無法達成協議那我們就把它移到第二輪我們希望移到第二輪的越少越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2271.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2300.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以如果機密預算也有未達共識的我們不排除第二輪也會有一次機密預算的審查公開預算會有第二輪的審查所以待會各行政部門就以達成共識的部分請直接宣布那看委員有沒有意見如果沒有意見的話我們就先把有共識的部分處理完那如果能夠協調我們會在場面上協調達成共識這幾天我們審查各部會的預算我相信我們同仁都相當有默契了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2301.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2302.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本期做這樣的宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2317.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2332.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那為了提升預算處理的效率跟連貫性我待會會先請議事人員宣讀公開預算數及委員提案那需要的時間因為我們現在提案580案根據僑委會他一百 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2339.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2361.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
一百二十個提案昨天念了25分鐘所以僑委會一百二十個提案念了五分鐘而且我還看到僑委會字數比你們的還要少你們的提案字都很多所以待會我們有580案要宣讀這樣推估起來本期估計大概是一個半小時到兩個多小時之間會來做宣讀的動作那當同時在宣讀的時候會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2362.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2377.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
布置協商場地宣讀期間在場人員不管行政部門或立法部門都有需要的話可以自由離席宣讀完畢後先進行秘密會議請各位委員及具備 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2378.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2390.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
進入秘密會議資格的列席官員進入會場直接在協商桌就座再行宣讀機密預算數及機密提案進行機密提案的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2409.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2409.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在請醫生員宣讀公開部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2428.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2436.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
114年度中央政府總預算案國防部主管收支公開部分以稅務部分不含國家安全局部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第77項國防部五萬元第78項國防部所屬6億129萬元第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2445.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2447.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
規費收入第62項國防部15000元第63項國防部所屬778000元第4款財產收入第88項國防部1545000元第89項國防部所屬70億8762萬元第5款營業營餘及事業收入第3項國防部所屬15億元第7款 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2468.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2483.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
其他收入（第87項國防部666,000元（第88項國防部所屬20億3393萬6千元（二水儲部分（不含國家安全局部分（第9款國防部主管不含機密部分（第一項國防部17億321萬4千元（ |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2486.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2501.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第一幕一般行政7億7000零32萬1千元第二幕國防政策規劃與督導市益3279萬8千元第三幕國家軍事博物館5億元第四幕一般建築及設備無劣數第五幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2502.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2510.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第一預備金9萬5千元第二項國防部所屬4475億5663萬8千元第一幕軍事行政54億1923萬7千元第三幕教育訓練業務100億323萬7千元第四幕後勤及通知業務1172億1100 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2523.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2549.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
六十六萬元第五目一般裝備一千零八十四億四千六百九十一萬四千元第六目軍事人員一千七百八十三億六千九百三十四萬兩千元第七目非營業特種基金十五億四千三百九十二萬四千元第八目一般建築及設備一百七十四億四千四百四十三萬八千元第九目第一預備金二十八億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2551.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2560.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第11目一般科學研究12億7876萬5千元（第13目環保業務21億6267萬5千元（第14目退休輔續14億9860萬元（第15目均均維持13億7784萬6千元（現在宣讀委員之預算提案第一案至第50案為國防部本部部分其餘為國防部所屬之預算提案第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2581.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2604.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第一幕人員維持法定編制人員待遇凍結兩百萬元委員陳冠廷等人提案第二至第11案為第一幕基本行政工作維持之提案第二案凍結五百萬元委員陳冠廷等人提案第三案凍結五百萬元委員黃仁等人提案第四案凍結兩百萬元委員王定宇等人提案第五案業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2606.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2618.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
檢列一百萬元、凍結一千萬元為林柱英等提案第六案水電費檢列兩千五百三十二萬五千元為馬文君等提案第七案水電費檢列兩百萬元為人陳冠廷等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2619.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2630.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第8案資訊服務費檢列300萬元凍結200萬元委員馬文君等提案第9案特別費凍結50%委員徐巧欣等提案第10案資訊軟硬體設備費檢列500萬元凍結200萬元委員馬文君等提案第11案國內團體資捐助檢列10萬元凍結10%委員林柱英等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2642.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2658.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第12案第1目業務費檢列200萬元凍結1000萬元為馬文君等提案第13案凍結100萬元為黃人等提案第14案第2目戰略規劃業務費凍結100萬元為黃人等提案第16至第27案為第2目整合評估之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2660.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2666.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第16案業務費凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第17案業務費凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第18案教育訓練費減列300萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第19案教育訓練費凍結200萬元委員陳冠廷等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2676.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2689.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第二十案一般事務費凍結一百萬元委員陳永康等提案第二十一案一般事務費凍結三十萬元委員林益君等提案第二十二案國外旅費減利三百萬元凍結五百萬元委員馬文君等提案第二十三案獎補助費減利五百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2691.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2698.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
委員陳冠廷等提案、第24案獎補助費凍結50%為林益君等提案、第25案獎補助費凍結30%委員徐巧欣等提案、第26案獎補助費凍結100萬元為王定宇等提案、第27案對國內團體之捐助減列3055萬元為馬文君等提案、第28至36案為 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2715.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2733.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第2目國防支援管理之提案、第28案凍結兩百萬元委員王定宇等提案、第29案凍結一百萬元委員黃仁等提案、第30案凍結一百萬元委員黃仁等提案、第31案違辦費減列三百萬元、凍結五百萬元違馬文軍等提案、第30案違辦費 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2735.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2747.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
動輒200萬元委員王定宇等提案第33案一般數費動輒10%委員林楚瑩等提案第34案獎補助費動輒500萬元委員馬文君等提案第35案對國內團體資捐助動輒200萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第36案對國內團體資捐助動輒20萬元委員盧茂寧等提案第37至38案為第二幕法律事務之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2762.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2780.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第37案凍結10%委員林柱英等提案第38案業務費凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第39至46案為第二目督查作業之提案第39案凍結二分之一委員馬文君等提案第40案凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第41案業務費檢列100萬元凍結100萬元委員林柱英等提案第42案凍結200萬元委員陳冠廷等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2788.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2799.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第43案、凍結100萬元委員林益君等提案第44案、業務費凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第45案、業務費凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第46案、諮詢服務費、檢列140萬元委員馬文君等提案第47至48案為 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2806.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2819.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第三目國家軍事博物館之提案第47案凍結百分之十文陳冠廷等提案第48案防護建築及設備費凍結一億元為馬文軍等提案第49至第50案為主決議現宣讀主決議之內容第49案 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2825.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2852.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
建於中國近年在軍事上侵擾臺灣日漸頻繁提議國防部增加國軍招募留營又因同時穩定軍心其次增加各級長官獎金與加菜金額度最後調整主戰兵力加級金額以吸引官兵留營提案人委員沈伯陽等人第五十案要求國防部立即研議修正國軍第一加級表將高登及亮導 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2854.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2870.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
首倍對志願役官士兵地域加急月資數額比照東沙島由現行外導第二級調整為第一級提案人委員馬文君等人第51案今年國軍志願役人數從110年最高至164,884人111及112年底人數分別減少5,492人及4,706人 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2882.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2903.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
至113年6月底致願役人數再降至152885人更令人擔憂的是眾多第一型戰鬥部隊之國軍部隊邊線比近不到八成皆請國防部積極嚴厲對策與三個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人第52案 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2906.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2920.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
建請國防部與一個月內檢討修訂軍用機場照應防制補償經費分配使用辦法提案人委員黃仁等人現在宣讀國防部所屬之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2925.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2943.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第53案稅入第四款財產收入財產支息第二節租金收入增列一百萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第54至第55案為稅入第七款其他收入第二目其他雜項收入此提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2944.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2966.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
第54案爭獵5億元委員陳冠廷等提案第55案爭獵2000萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第56案通案第一幕軍事行政委辦費凍結二分之一委員馬文君等提案第57至58案第三幕動員準備之預算提案第57案凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第58案訓練綜合業務作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2973.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2997.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
動輒10%委員陳冠廷等提案第59案國軍中央防務營區智慧型警監系統建設案第二階段動輒10%委員陳冠廷等提案第60案第5幕新型步槍動輒10%委員徐巧欣等提案第61案第5幕一般裝備動輒1億元委員沈伯陽等提案第60案第8幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2998.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3018.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
一般建築及設備營建工程檢列9000萬元凍結10%委員林楚英等提案第63案陸軍司令部第一幕業務費凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案第64案第一幕法務及法制作業業務費凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案第65案優惠凍結50萬元委員黃仁等提案第66案第一幕一般輸費凍結20%委員沈伯陽等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3028.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3053.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
第67至68案為第一幕物品資提案第67案凍結20萬元委員馬文君等提案第68案國內旅費檢列30萬元凍結50萬元委員馬文君等提案第69案第一幕管好作業凍結10%委員林柱英等提案第70至71案第一幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3055.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3080.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
議務費一般數費之提案第70案凍結80%委員徐巧欣等提案第71案凍結100萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第72案第一幕物品檢列100萬元凍結400萬元委員馬文君等提案第73案物品凍結8000萬元委員馬文君等提案第74至78案為陸軍司令部第三幕交易行政資訊軟硬體設備費之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3082.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3087.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第74案檢列100萬元、凍結500萬元為馬文君等提案第75案雜項設備費檢列80萬元、凍結100萬元為馬文君等提案第76案資訊服務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3096.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3122.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
簡列一百萬元、凍結四百萬元委員馬文君等提案第77案,物品凍結一百萬元委員王定宇等提案第78案,一般事務費凍結一百萬元委員王定宇等提案第79至81案,為第三目動員整備業務費之提案第79案,其他業務租金簡列三百萬元、凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案第80案,物品凍結一百萬元委員王定宇等提案第81案 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3124.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3142.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
第3目動員準備檢列300萬元動結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第82至91案為第3目訓練綜合業務優惠按日案件機資籌金之提案動結百分之10委員陳冠廷等提案第83案 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3144.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3149.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
按日案件．支籌金減列100萬元．凍結200萬元為馬文軍等提案．84案國軍軍事裝備及設施減列200萬元．凍結1000萬元為馬文軍等提案．85案物品凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案．86案物品減列300萬元．凍結700萬元為馬文軍等提案．87案一般事務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3169.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3182.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
動輒3千萬元為馬文君等提案﹖第88案軍事裝備設施養護費動輒10%委員陳冠廷等提案﹖第89案國內旅費動輒10%委員陳冠廷等提案﹖第90案業務費動輒1億元委員馬文君等提案﹖第91案業務費動輒500萬元委員黃仁等提案﹖第92案第三幕教育訓練業務動輒10%委員陳冠廷等提案﹖第93至97案為第4幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3197.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3210.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
一般單要固置與維護之提案第93案業務費軍事裝備及設施凍結10%委員沈伯漾等提案第94案軍事裝備及設施凍結2億元委員馬文君等提案第95案軍事裝備及設施凍結20%委員徐曉新等提案第96案業務費凍結10%委員徐曉新等提案第97案凍結50%委員林益君等提案第98案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3228.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3232.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
其他業務租金凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第99案防務建築洋務費凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第100案水電費凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3243.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3250.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
第101案業務費檢列494萬元凍結50%委員徐曉新等提案第102至115案為第4目軍事單位裝備零附件固製及保修之提案第102案軍事裝備及設施凍結15%委員徐曉新等提案第103案軍事裝備及設施凍結1000萬元為馬文軍等提案第104案 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3270.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3284.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
動輒400萬元委員馬文君等提案第105案動輒10%委員陳冠廷等提案第106案動輒80%委員徐巧欣等提案第107案動輒10%委員徐巧欣等提案第108案動輒1億元委員馬文君等提案第109案減劣4千萬元動輒1千萬元委員馬文君等提案第110案 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3295.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3299.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
簡列8000萬元、凍結5000萬元為馬文君等提案第111案車輛及辦公器具養護費、凍結1000萬元為馬文君等提案第112案 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3308.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3320.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第4目軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修凍結50%委員林毅君等提案第113案凍結50%委員林毅君等提案第114案凍結50%委員林毅君等提案第115案凍結50%委員林毅君等提案第116至 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3331.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3340.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第120案是針對第4幕後勤補給支援業務費之提案第116案物品凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第117案業務費物品凍結2000萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3348.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3361.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
委員馬文君等提案第一百一十八案物品檢驗三千萬元凍結一億元委員馬文君等提案第一百一十九案一般輸入費凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案第一百二十案軍事裝備設施養護費 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3363.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3392.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
簡列一千兩百萬元委員馬文君等提案第一百二十一至一百二十五案系第五目仁溪市短程防空飛彈之提案第一百二十一案凍結百分之十委員徐巧欣等提案第一百二十二案凍結百分之四十委員徐巧欣等提案第一百二十三案凍結一千萬元委員黃仁等提案第一百二十四案凍結三億元委員馬文君等提案第一百二十五案凍結五千萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3394.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3410.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
委員陳永康等提案第126至131案系第五目國軍中亞防護營區智慧型警戒系統建置案第二階段之提案第126案凍結10%委員林業軍等提案第127案凍結500萬元委員王定宇等提案第128案凍結500萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3416.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3421.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
委員黃仁等提案第129案凍結50萬元委員盧美玲等提案第130案凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案第131案凍結500萬元委員陳永康等提案第132案 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3432.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3447.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
第5幕新型戰車凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案第133至138案系第5幕高效能仿裝甲飛彈之提案第133案凍結10萬元委員林毅君等提案第134案凍結20%委員林毅君等提案第135案 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3453.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3469.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
動結一千萬元委員黃仁等提案第136案動結兩百萬元委員王定宇等提案第137案動結五百萬元委員陳永康等提案第138案動結八千萬元委員馬文君等提案第139案 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3472.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3478.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第5幕遠程精準火力打擊系統凍結8000萬元委員馬文君等提案140到141案系遙控無人機防護系統之提案140案凍結100萬元委員陳永康等提案141案檢列600萬元凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案142到144案系 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3494.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3511.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
半用機艙支提案、142案凍結一百萬元委員林玉君等人提案、143案凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等人提案、144案凍結一百萬元委員陳永康等人提案、145案陸上機動部來系統凍結兩千萬元委員黃仁等提案、146到147案是 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3514.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3520.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
及陸軍第5幕陸通用行油罐車採購案之提案、146案凍結100萬元委員黃恩等提案、147案凍結1728000元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3529.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3556.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
一百四十八到一百五十三案系戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段之提案一百四十八案凍結三百萬元委員王定營等提案一百四十九案凍結五百萬元委員林益君等提案一百五十案凍結五百萬元委員黃恩等提案一百五十一案凍結五十萬元委員羅美玲等提案一百五十二案凍結一億元委員馬文君等提案一百五十三案凍結兩百萬元委員陳永康等提案一百五十四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3558.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3570.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
目獲行無人機凍結一億元委員馬文君等提案、155到157案系無人機反制系統之提案、155案凍結三千萬元委員黃文君等提案、156案凍結五百萬元委員林軍等提案、157案凍結四億五千 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3576.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3582.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
166萬元委員馬文君等提案158到159系兼徵型無人機制提案158案凍結10%林義軍等提案159凍結4000萬元委員馬文君等提案160到161案系攻擊無人機飛彈系統制提案160案凍結3000萬元委員黃恩等提案161案 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3599.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3624.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
簡列五十二億零三百九十萬三千元委員馬文君等人提案一百六十二到一百六十四案系先行步槍之提案一百六十二案凍結一百萬元委員林一軍等人提案一百六十三案凍結一百萬元委員黃恩等人提案一百六十四案凍結一億元委員馬文君等人提案一百六十五案後備部隊手持無線電機補充案凍結六千萬元委員馬文君等人提案一百六十六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3625.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3642.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段凍結40%委員徐曉興等提案167到168案系危行無人機之提案167案凍結20萬元委員林一軍等提案168案凍結95萬元委員馬文君等提案169案新型步槍凍結40%委員徐曉興等提案170案陸軍作戰支援服務系統建置案凍結10萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3656.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3664.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
171案國軍後備部隊衛情裝備整備第二階段凍結400萬元委員馬文君等人提案172案採購及外購軍品作業費之國外旅費凍結10%委員陳冠廷等人提案173案第6目主婦食與口糧之一般事務費凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等人提案174案第8目 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3684.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3689.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
南湖彈庫新建工程凍結3000萬元委員馬文君等提案175到177案系第8幕戰甲車掩體新建工程第一階段之提案175案凍結10%委員林一軍等提案176案凍結4000萬元委員馬文君等提案177案 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3707.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3721.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
動輒7500萬元委員許曉新等提案178案第8目陸軍官校改善教育設施工程動輒1000萬元委員馬文君等提案179案第8目公共建設及設施費動輒3000萬元委員許曉新等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3723.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3743.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
一百八十到一百八十一案系第八目章訓部隊安營區訓練場整建工程案之提案一百八十案凍結十分之一委員黃仁等人提案一百八十一案凍結五千萬元委員馬文軍等人提案一百八十二到一百八十五案系第八目章訓坑子口訓練場整建工程案 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3744.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3752.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
直提案、182案凍結十分之一委員黃恩等提案、183案凍結五百萬元委員王定宇等提案、184案 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3754.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3772.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
動輒五百萬元委員林軍等提案、180萬動輒六千萬元委員馬文君等提案、186到187案是第八目戰場抗壓管新建工程之提案、186案動輒一億五千八百萬元委員徐小新等提案、187案動輒八千萬元委員馬文君等提案、188案第八目合理冒險訓練場動輒五百萬元委員馬文君等提案、 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3781.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3804.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
189-190案第8目花防部復興營區訓場新建工程案之提案189案凍結兩千萬元委員馬文君等提案190案凍結四千萬元委員徐曉新等提案191案第8目手榴彈實彈投擲場及反裝甲射擊場新建工程案凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案192案 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3806.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3813.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
第8目清兵器、靶場興建工程先期規劃案、凍結400萬元委員馬文君等提案193到194案系第8目城鎮戰訓練場際合劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3819.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3829.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
集合生化訓練場新建工程先期規劃案之提案193案凍結20%委員徐曉新等提案194案凍結400萬元委員馬文君等提案195案系第8目金湯營區後備訓場整建先期規劃案凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案196案第8目載人公務車輛籌補凍結2000萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3848.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3855.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
197-201案第13目環保設施維護之提案197案雜項設備費檢列70萬元凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案198案按日案件計資籌金檢列100萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案199案委辦費檢列100萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案200案 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3879.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3886.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
一般事務費凍結10%委員陳冠廷等人提案2001案一般事務費簡略1000萬元凍結3000萬元委員馬文軍等人提案以下是海軍司令部之提案202案至203案是第一幕情報及測量作業之業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3900.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3905.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
指通訊費指提案202案通訊費凍結50萬元委員馬文君等提案203案資訊服務費減列50萬元凍結60萬元委員馬文君等提案204案 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3914.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3932.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
法制作業及法務及法制作業之業務費凍結20%委員徐曉新等人提案205案採購及作業及外購軍品作業費之運費凍結二分之一委員徐曉新等人提案206到207案之提案是市政作業是一般事務費之提案206案凍結10%委員林楚英等人提案207案 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3944.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3949.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
簡列250萬元、凍結125萬元委員徐曉欣等人提案208案計劃管理作業之一般事務費簡列10萬元、凍結13萬元委員馬文君等人提案209案至210案係針對第一幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3962.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3990.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
議員（議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3991.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4015.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
計資籌金、凍結15萬元、213案凍結二分之一委員徐曉新等提案、214案第1目軍事醫療作業設施及機械設備養護費減略100萬元凍結70萬元委員馬文君等提案、215至219案系教育第三目之業務費之提案、215案物品減略100萬元委員黃仁等提案、216案 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4018.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4019.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
事由．12月16日、18日及19日及19日提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4037.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4051.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
9萬9千元、凍結30%委員徐曉信等提案、220到223系第三幕訓練綜合作業之業務費之提案、220案教育訓練費凍結二分之一委員馬文君等提案、221軍事設備及設施減力2000萬元凍結3000萬元委員馬文君等提案、222案 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4059.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4063.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
凍結80%委員徐曉信等提案223凍結100萬元委員黃仁鼎等提案224到226案之提案系後勤綜合勤務 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4072.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4075.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
提案 提案 提案 提案 提案 提案 提案 提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4097.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4104.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
設施修繕維護與管理之提案227案防護建築養護費凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案228凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案229案水電供應凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案230至234案系第4目通訊電子與資訊管理之提案第230案 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4123.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4126.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
資訊軟體設備費檢列50萬元﹐凍結50萬元為馬文軍等提案﹐第231案教育訓練費檢列10萬元﹐凍結50萬元為馬文軍等提案﹐第232案軍事裝備設施養物費﹐凍結1000萬元為馬文軍等提案﹐第233案軍事裝備設施養物費檢列3000萬元﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4144.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4147.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
委員黃仁等提案第234案業務費凍結30%委員薛曉新等提案第235至244案為第4目軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4159.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4166.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
第230萬岸日案件祭資籌金、減列500萬元動解500萬元委員馬文君等提案第236案軍事裝備及設施減列2億元動解1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第237案業務費動解80%委員徐巧興等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4176.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4187.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
第238案凍結50%委員林益君等人提案第239案凍結50%委員林益君等人提案第240案凍結50%委員林益君等人提案第241案凍結50%委員林益君等人提案第242案凍結50%委員林益君等人提案第243案凍結50%委員林益君等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4200.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4207.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
第244案 凍結50%委員林毅君等提案 第245案 第4目 設施及機械設備養護費 減列3000萬元凍結3000萬元 委員馬文君等提案 第246至249案 系第5目 一般武器及戰備支援裝備購置 資訊軟體設備費 直提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4223.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4228.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
第246案（凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案（第247案（檢列228萬4千元委員馬文君等提案（第248案（設備及投資凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案（第249案（凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案（第250至251案為第5目 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4244.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4256.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
怒用兼征行無人機之提案﹖第250案﹖凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案﹖第251案﹖凍結300萬元委員林益君等提案﹖第252至254案﹖為第5目長城潛射縱行魚雷之提案﹖第252案﹖凍結100萬元委員林益君等提案﹖第253案﹖凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案﹖第254案﹖凍結3000萬元委員黃仁等提案﹖第255案﹖為第5目 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4274.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4291.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
建載型艦增無人機之提案 凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案 第256至257案為第5目建龍級潛艦戰鬥系統提升之提案 第256案凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案 第257案凍結5000萬元委員黃仁等提案 第258案第5目新購布拉克 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4299.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4317.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
EB方陣快炮凍結3000萬元委員馬文君等提案第259至261案為第五目潛艦國造第二階段原型艦籌建之提案第259案凍結一億元委員馬文君等提案第260案凍結5000萬元委員黃仁等提案第261案凍結5億8495萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4328.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4336.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
委員陳永康等提案第262案第5目新一代輕型巡防艦第二階段原型艦籌建 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4338.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4357.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
簡列三千萬元凍結十億元為馬文君等提案第263案第五目多功能特種作戰訓練場簡列八千萬元委員馬文君等提案第264案第五目訓場複合式標靶建案簡列六千萬元為馬文君等提案第265至266案為第五目康電集 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4363.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4378.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
抗地警戒戰鬥系統性能提升之提案第265案凍結五千萬元委員黃仁等提案第266案凍結七千萬元委員馬文君等提案第267案第五目魚叉飛彈防岸海岸防衛系統凍結三千萬元委員馬文君等提案第268至271案為第五目僭建國照第三階段後續籌建之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4393.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4400.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
第268案凍結50%委員林業軍等提案第269案檢列17億9600萬5千元委員徐巧欣等提案第270案檢列21元委員馬文君等提案第271案檢列21元委員黃仁等提案第272至275萬為第5目快速布雷挺後續之提案第272案凍結300萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4422.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4432.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
委員林益君等提案．273案．凍結五千萬元委員黃仁等提案．274案．凍結10%委員徐曉新等提案．275案．凍結兩億元委員馬文君等提案．276至278案為第五目．國軍重要防護營區智慧型緊接系統建制案第二階段之提案． |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4449.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4454.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
第276案,凍結10%委員林毅君等提案第277案,凍結50%委員徐巧欣等提案第278案,凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案第279至281案,為第5目 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4468.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4476.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
金針型無人機之提案、第279案、凍結10%委員林益君等提案、第280案、凍結2000萬元委員黃仁等提案、第281案、凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案、第282至283案為第5幕人稀釋短程防空飛彈之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4491.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4500.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
第282案,凍結80%委員徐曉新等提案,第283案凍結5億元委員馬文君等提案,第284案第5目,寧願靶場整修工程檢列1200萬元凍結1000萬元委員徐曉新等提案,第285至286案為第5目,採購及外購軍品作業費之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4514.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4527.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
第285案案日案件計資籌金檢列150萬元、凍結50萬元委員馬文君等提案第286案凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第287至289案為第五目新式港琴拖船購置之提案第287案凍結36萬3千元委員陳永康等提案第288案凍結5萬元委員林益君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4543.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4559.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第289案簡列10萬元委員黃仁等提案第290案第5目海洋建增能量整體提升案簡列2000萬元凍結2億元委員馬文君等提案第291至292為第8目 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4563.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4575.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
雲渣飛彈海岸防衛系統之提案第291案凍結3億元委員馬文君等提案第292案凍結5000萬元委員黃仁等提案第293至294案為第8目左營二港口擴建工程之提案第293案凍結1000萬元委員黃仁等提案第294案凍結200萬元委員王定宇等提案第295案第8目 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4591.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4602.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
金門縣烏丘碼頭新建工程之提案動解2000萬元為馬文君等提案第296至297案為第8目防務建築及設備之提案第296案簡列3187萬元為馬文君等提案第297案防務建築及設備簡列 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4614.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4626.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
一千萬元凍結五千萬元委員馬文君等提案第298案第8目寧願拔長整修工程檢列3187萬元委員黃仁等提案第299案第8目載人公務車輛籌補凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案第300案 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4633.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4661.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
第8目國軍後備部隊衛情裝備整備第二階段檢列一千萬元凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案第301至302案為第8目發展海軍官校基礎及專業經濟教育設施設備師之提案第301案凍結五百萬元委員黃仁等提案第302案檢列一百萬元凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4663.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4679.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
第303至305案為第13目環保設施維護一般事務費之提案第303案凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第310案凍結2000萬元委員黃仁等提案第305案一般事務費減令500萬元凍結3000萬元委員毛文君等提案第306案 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4687.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4690.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
第一幕防務建築養護費檢列100萬元、凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4695.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4699.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
第307案第一幕業務費一般事務費減列2億5890萬5千元委員徐曉新等提案第308案第一幕雜項設備費減列30萬元凍結50萬元委員馬文君等提案第309案第一幕一般事務費減列150萬元凍結150萬元委員馬文君等提案第310至312案為第三幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4722.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4731.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
教育行政之提案第310案教育訓練費減列200萬元、凍結40萬元委員馬文君等提案第311案一般書費減列200萬元、凍結60萬元委員馬文君等提案第312案國內旅費凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第313至314案為第三目作戰綜合作業之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4749.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4755.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
第313案物品檢列200萬元凍結40萬元為馬文君等提案第314案設施及機械設備養護費檢列200萬元凍結30萬元為馬文君等提案第315案至第317案為第三目 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4768.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4777.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
訓練綜合作業之預算提案第315案雜項設備費減列100萬元（凍結50萬元委員馬文君等提案第316案軍事裝備及設施減列200萬元（凍結110萬元（委員馬文君等提案第317案醫護費凍結100萬元（委員黃仁等提案第318案第4幕水電費凍結2000萬元（委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4798.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4813.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
第319至321案為第4目通信電子與資訊管理業務費之提案第319案交易訓練費凍結100萬元為馬文軍等提案第320案資訊服務費凍結5000萬元為馬文軍等提案第321案軍事裝備設施養護費凍結3000萬元為馬文軍等提案第322至327案為第4目軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4827.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4834.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
第322案軍事裝備及設施檢列7000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第323案車輛及辦公器具養護費檢列3000萬元凍結2000萬元委員馬文君等提案第324案凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第325案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4847.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4872.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
三百萬元、五元、零億均等提案、第326案、凍結一百萬元、五元、零億均等提案、第327案、凍結五千萬元、五元陳永康等提案、第328至329為第四目後勤補給支援之提案、第328案、物品凍結五百萬元、五元黃人等提案、第329案、物品檢列一億元、凍結四千萬元、五元馬文均等提案、第330至332為第五目新式高級 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4877.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4883.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
教訓機之提案第330案凍結一千萬元為聯義軍等提案、第331案凍結一億元為黃人等提案、第332案 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4889.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4907.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
動輒20億元委員馬文君等提案第333至334案為第5目愛二性能提升及採購愛三之提案第333案動輒10億元委員馬文君等提案第334案動輒5000萬元委員林彬君等提案第335至336案為第5目F16AB型戰機性能提升之提案第335案 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4917.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4938.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
凍結兩百萬元為王定宇等提案、第三百三十六案凍結一億元為馬文君等提案、第三百三十七至三百三十八為第五目堅貞型污染機制提案、第三百三十七案凍結百分之十為林業軍等提案、第三百三十八案凍結三千萬元為馬文君等提案、第三百三十九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4939.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4964.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
第5幕F16及新式堅徵夾槍之提案第340案動解兩億元委員馬文君等提案第340至342案為第5幕國軍重要防務援軍智慧型警戒系統建制案第二階段動解10%委員林毅君等提案第341案動解兩億元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4966.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4986.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
第342案（凍結五百萬元委員陳永康等提案第343至344案（為第五目F16型機遠距精準武器籌購案之提案第343案（凍結一億元為馬文君等提案第344案（凍結五百萬元為黃仁等提案第345案（第五目 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4992.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5001.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
高高空無人機系統凍結30億元委員馬文君等提案第346至347案為第5目遙控無人機防禦系統之提案第346案凍結30%委員徐巧興等提案第347案凍結1500萬元委員馬文君等提案第348至349案為第5目F16Vブラック70型 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5021.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5026.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
及抵我識別器尋答密碼機之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5027.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5054.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
第348案（凍結一千萬元為黃人等提案（第349案（凍結兩千萬元為馬文君等提案（第350至351案（為第五目新式高較機性能科目軌跡噴煙裝置之提案（第350案（凍結一千萬元為黃人等提案（第351案（凍結一千萬元為馬文君等提案（第352至353案（為第五目一般武器及 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5056.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5061.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
裝備資源、裝備購資案、第352案、凍結100萬元委員林毅君等提案、第353案、檢列5000萬元、凍結5億元委員馬文君等提案、第354案、 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5068.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5084.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
第5目（TPS（FPS117雷達性能提升案（凍結2000萬元委員馬文君等提案第355案（第5目（按日案件機資籌金減劣70萬元（凍結10萬元委員馬文君等提案第356至359案（為第8目（侵權鋼基地防護機庫構建之提案第356案（凍結1000萬元委員陳永康等提案第357案（ |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5098.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5103.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
凍結一百萬元委員林益君等提案第358案凍結三千萬元委員黃潤等提案第359案凍結三百萬元委員王定宇等提案第360至361案 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5111.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5122.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
為第8目台東基地設施新建工程師提案、第360案凍結1億元為馬文君等提案、第361案凍結200萬元委員陳冠廷等提案、第362案第8目岡山基地設施新建工程檢列2億元、凍結2億元為馬文君等提案、第363案第8目 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5131.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5142.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
砲滑到戰備工程凍結2億元為馬文軍等提案第364案第8目載人工物車輛籌補凍結2000萬元為馬文軍等提案第365案第8目國軍衛生部隊衛情裝備整備凍結500萬元為馬文軍等提案第366案第8目充實航空技術學校技職基礎及專業精進教育設備師檢列30萬元凍結2000萬元為馬文軍等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5161.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5163.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
367到369案系第13目環保業務環保設施維護之提案367案 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5170.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5197.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
按日案件計資籌金檢列110萬元（凍結10萬元委員馬文君等提案368案設施及機械設備養護費檢列200萬元（凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案369案其他補助及捐助（凍結2000萬元委員馬文君等提案一下就（一下去憲兵指揮部之提案370案第一幕（法務及法制作業業務費凍結20%（允許小新等提案371案到372案 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5203.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5219.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
行政事務一般事務費直提案、 371案、凍結五百萬元委員馬文君等提案、 372案、凍結五百萬元委員黃仁等提案、 373案、檢列兩千萬元凍結百分之三十委員徐小新等提案、 374到375案、 國會聯絡作業直提案、 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5224.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5242.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
三百七十四案業務費凍結百分之三十委員許曉新等人提案三百七十五凍結百分之三十委員許曉新等人提案三百七十六第一幕政戰綜合作業通訊費凍結二十萬元委員馬文君等人提案三百七十七第三幕動員準備法定編制人員待遇凍結兩百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5244.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5256.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
委員馬文君等提案378案第4目通訊隊凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案379第5目國軍新型手槍第二階段凍結10%委員徐曉新等提案380到382案系第5目遙控無人機防禦系統之提案380案凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案381案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5269.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5275.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
凍結500萬元委員黃仁等提案382案凍結2000萬元委員馬文君等提案383案國軍警備勤務車汰換凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案384案到385案 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5286.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5296.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
第5目無人機反制系統之提案、384案凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案、380萬凍結50萬元委員林益君等提案、386案偵偵型無人機凍結10%委員林益君等提案、387、攻擊無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5304.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5316.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
備戰系統凍結8800萬元委員馬文君等提案388案進行步槍凍結100萬元委員林軍等提案以下系資通電軍指揮部之提案389案第一幕業務費減列200萬元凍結20%委員徐小新等提案390第4幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5324.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5332.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
設施修繕維護與管理、設施及機械設備養護費檢列100萬元、凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案391、第4目水電供應、凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案392到393案第4目 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5341.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5370.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
通信電子與資訊管理資訊服務費之提案392案簡列一千萬元凍結五百萬元委員黃恩等提案393案簡列八百萬元凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案394到395案其第四目軍事第四目軍事單位裝備零附件構置及保修軍事設備及設軍事裝備及設施之提案394案簡列六千萬元凍結四千萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5371.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5399.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
三百九十五案簡列五千萬元、凍結五千萬元委員黃恩等提案三百九十六案第四目軍事裝備及設施簡列五十萬元、凍結一百五十萬元委員馬文君等提案三百九十七到三百九十八案是第五目遙控無人機防禦系統之提案三百九十七案凍結百分之三十委員徐曉新等提案三百九十八案凍結一億元委員馬文君等提案三百九十九案第五目兼徵型無人機凍結兩千萬元委員馬文君等提案四百案第三代 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5400.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5429.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
陸區系統凍結三億元委員馬文君等提案401到402案系第五目環島第二路由及滋通系統微波建築案提案401案凍結四千萬元委員馬文君等提案402案凍結一千萬元委員黃恩等提案403案第八目載載載載入無人載人公務車輛籌補凍結六百萬元委員馬文君等提案以下系政治作戰局之提案404案第一目 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5429.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5442.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
第一幕業務費凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案405到415案系第一幕政治戰爭綜合作業之提案405案人事 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5445.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5456.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
405 案獎金凍結一百萬元委員馬文君等提案406 案委辦費凍結百分之二十委員徐曉新等提案407 案委辦費凍結一百萬元委員王定民等提案408 案委辦費減列三百八十八萬元委員馬文君等提案409 案一般事務費凍結二十萬元委員羅美玲等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5466.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5474.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
413一般事務費凍結五百萬元委員沈伯陽等提案411一般事務費凍結六百萬元委員陳冠廷等提案412一般事務費凍結六百萬元委員馬文君等提案413業務費凍結一百萬元委員黃仁等提案414業務費凍結一百萬元委員黃仁等提案415業務費凍結十分之一委員馬文君等提案416 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5495.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5502.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
第1目一般事務費檢列200萬元凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案417案第1目凍結100萬元委員林一軍等提案418案第4目獎勵及慰問凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案419到425案系第4目業務費肢體 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5518.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5531.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
第4目飲產管理之提案419案又房屋建築點戶費凍結500萬元委員馬文君等人提案420案對國內團體之捐助凍結50%委員林軍等人提案421案對國內團體之捐助凍結100萬元委員王定宇之提案422案對國內團體捐團體之捐助凍結十分之一委員黃仁等提案423案對國內團體捐 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5544.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5552.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
團體支捐助檢列7625萬元委員馬文君等人提案424案蔣補助費凍結30%委員徐曉新等人提案425案蔣補助費檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員徐曉新等人提案426案第4目水電供應檢列1274萬3000元委員馬文君等人提案427案第6目約聘雇人員待遇凍結30%委員徐曉新等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5571.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5576.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
第8目軍品生產修護建設及其他設備凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案第11目國防先進科技研究計劃凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案第11目功率電子設平產業應用發展計劃凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5590.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5608.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
也占全身行動力外、谷歌系統開發、凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案432到433案、次世代先進製造關鍵技術開發計劃之提案432案、凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等提案433案、凍結十分之一委員黃恩等提案434 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5610.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5639.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
第13目一般事務費凍結一千萬元委員黃仁等提案430以下系主計舉止提案435案第一目業務費凍結一百萬元委員林楚英等提案436案第一目一般事務費減列兩千八百九十九萬一千元委員徐曉新等提案437案約聘僱人員待遇凍結百分之三十委員徐曉新等提案以下系軍誼舉止提案438案第一目人事行政凍結十萬元委員林益君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5643.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5658.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
439 案動結10萬元委員陳永康等提案440 到442 案系第一幕正佔綜合作業業務費之提案440 案案件計資籌金檢列49萬元動結9千元委員馬文君等提案441 案委辦費動結100萬元委員王定營等提案442 案委辦費檢列1359萬元動結9千元委員馬文君等提案443 到447 案系第一幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5671.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5675.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
軍事醫療作業之提案443案洗雜項設備費檢列100萬元凍結60萬元委員馬文君等提案444案案例案件計資籌金檢列1000萬元凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案445案物品檢列17000萬元凍結3000萬元委員馬文君等提案446案一般事務費凍結500萬元委員陳永康等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5697.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5707.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
447案一般事務費檢列100萬元凍結150萬元委員馬文君等提案448到449案第3目教育行政支提案448案對特種基金支補助檢列300萬元凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案449案凍結20%委員徐曉新等提案450案第4目防護建築養護費檢列1000萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案451案 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5726.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5738.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
水電費剪裂及凍結剪裂1000萬元凍結3000萬元委員馬文君等提案452案第5目新型人體離心機剪裂2億元委員馬文君等提案453到455案 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5744.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5757.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
第8目國軍前進外科小組裝備整備之提案、453凍結一千萬元委員沈伯陽等提案、454凍結一千萬元委員黃恩等提案、455減一兩億元委員馬文君等提案、456第8目國軍醫院精準醫療救護設備整備減列四千萬元委員馬文君等提案、457 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5771.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5779.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
第8目第4作戰區高階持證及證紙斷層掃描系統整備檢列2000萬元馬文君等提案458案第6作戰區新導管檢查及治療裝備整備凍結1000萬元委員沈伯陽等提案459國軍醫院軍政醫學網路設備系統提升案檢列5000萬元馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5796.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5806.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
461至461案為全民防衛動員署第一幕人事行政之提案第460案凍結50萬元委員盧美玲等提案461案凍結50萬元委員林楚英等提案第462案第一幕業務費一般事務費凍結300萬元委員黃仁等提案第463案第一幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5819.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5823.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
政戰綜合作業業務費凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第464至473案為第三目動員準備之提案第464案資訊軟體設備費減列200萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第465案雜項設備費減列800萬元凍結300萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5839.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5850.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
委員馬文君等提案第466案通訊費檢列100萬元委員黃仁等提案第467案其他業務注金檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第468案物品檢列500萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第469案 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5857.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5865.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
國內旅費檢列500萬元委員黃仁等提案第470案國外旅費凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案第471案業務費凍結500萬元委員黃仁等提案第472案凍結300萬元委員王定宇等提案第473案凍結100萬元委員羅敏林等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5876.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5881.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
第474案第3目凍結10%委員陳冠廷等提案第475案至476案為第4目物品資提案第475案檢列200萬元為馬文君等提案第476案 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5893.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5913.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
簡列一千萬元、凍結兩千萬元委員毛文君等提案第477案第五目一般武器及戰備支援裝備購置凍結一千萬元委員沈伯陽等提案第478至479案為第五目新型步槍之提案第478案凍結五千萬元委員毛文君等提案第479案凍結一百萬元委員林毅君等提案第480至 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5920.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5931.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
481案為第5目危險無人機之提案第480案凍結1億元為馬文軍等提案第481案凍結500萬元委員林業軍等提案第482案第5目國軍重要防護營區智慧型警戒系統建設案第二階段凍結10%委員林業軍等提案第483案第5目國軍HF通信機換裝案之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5949.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5965.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
483案動計5萬3千元為馬文君等提案第484至490案為國防大學第三目教育行政業務費之提案第484案其他業務租金減列150萬元為馬文君等提案第485萬物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5968.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5985.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
剪裂50萬元、凍結500萬元為馬文君等提案486案、一般事務費凍結1000萬元為馬文君等提案第487案、一般事務費剪裂335萬元為馬文君等提案第488案、防務建築養護費剪裂100萬元為馬文君等提案第489案、國外旅費凍結160萬6千元為任陳冠廷等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5992.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5997.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
第490案國外旅費凍結74萬6千元委員陳冠廷等提案第491案第4幕設施及機械設備養護費凍結20%委員徐巧欣等提案第492案第4幕防務建築養護費減列400萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第493案一般事務費凍結64萬2千元委員陳冠廷等提案第494案 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6018.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6033.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
第4目車輛及辦公器具養物費緊列80萬5千元委員馬文君等提案第495至496案為第4目雜項設備費之提案第495案凍結十分之一委員黃仁等提案第496案雜項設備費緊列300萬元凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案第497案第8目運輸設備費凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6046.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6052.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
第498案第13目一般數費檢列118萬元為馬文君等提案第499至501案為中正國防幹部預備學校之提案第4目後勤補給資源之提案第499案一般數費凍結30%委員徐巧興等提案第500案 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6069.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6085.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
動輒10萬元委員林楚瑩等提案第501案動輒10萬元委員盧美玲等提案第502至505案為參謀本部第一幕業務費之提案第502案物品動輒20%委員沈柏洋提案第503案業務費動輒100萬元委員黃仁等提案第504案業務費動輒20萬元委員盧美玲等提案第505案第一幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6099.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6108.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
動輒200萬元委員王定宇等提案第506案第一幕一般事務費動輒200萬元委員陳永康等提案第507案 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6109.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6116.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
第1目一般事務費檢列900萬元凍結30%委員徐巧欣等人提案第508案第3目教育訓練費凍結500萬元委員陳永康等人提案第509案第3目動員整備檢列721萬1000元委員馬文君等人提案第510案至513案為第3目 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6133.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6141.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
作戰綜合作業之提案第510案一般事務費凍結300萬元委員陳永康等人提案第511案一般事務費凍結500萬元委員陳永康等人提案第512案凍結100萬元委員馬文君等人提案第513案檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等人提案第514至515案第三幕業務費之提案第514案資訊服務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6162.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6171.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
簡列650萬元、凍結200萬元委員馬文君等人提案第515萬業務費凍結300萬元委員黃仁等人提案第516至521案為第4目通信電子與資訊管理制提案第516案通訊費凍結500萬元委員馬文君等人提案第517案 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6186.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6193.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
資訊服務費凍結5000萬元委員毛文君等人提案第518案物品凍結100萬元委員陳永康等人提案第519案一般數費凍結100萬元委員陳永康等人提案第520案 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6200.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6207.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
簡列100萬元、凍結100萬元委員林楚英等人提案第521案、凍結30%委員徐曉新等人提案第522至525案為第4目業務費之提案第522案軍事裝備設施養物費、凍結300萬元委員陳永康等人提案第523案軍事裝備設施養物費、凍結300萬元委員陳永康等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6228.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6235.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
第524案軍事裝備設施養務費減列300萬元、凍結500萬元委員馬文君等人提案第525案車輛及辦公器具養務費減列300萬元、凍結500萬元委員馬文君等人提案第526案第6目人事費凍結30%委員徐小新等人提案第527案第13目業務費約用人員籌金減列73萬6千元委員馬文君等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6258.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6265.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
第528案第一幕業務費凍結20%委員薛曉新等提案第529至530案為第一幕情報及測量作業業務費之提案第529案軍事裝備設施養物費凍結2000萬元為馬文軍等提案第530案凍結35%委員薛曉新等提案第531案第一幕業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6284.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6288.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
簡列500萬元凍結30%委員徐曉新等人提案第532案第一幕軍事醫療作業簡列160萬元委員毛文軍等人提案第533至538案為第三幕訓練綜合作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6298.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6306.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
業務費之提案第533案軍事裝備設施養務費凍結30%委員徐曉新等提案第534案防務建築養務費凍結50%委員徐曉新等提案第535案防務建築養務費凍結1%委員黃仁等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6317.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6323.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
第536案防護建築養物費檢列500萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第537案設施及機械設備養物費檢列100萬元凍結50%委員徐巧欣等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6332.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6340.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
第538案設施及機械設備養物費減列100萬元、凍結200萬元為馬文君等提案第539案第4目防護建築養物費減列300萬元、凍結200萬元為馬文君等提案第540至541案為第4目通信電子與資訊管理優惠之提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6351.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6354.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
第540案資訊服務費檢列724萬元凍結200萬元委員馬文君等提案第541案凍結20%委員薛曉新等提案第542至543案為第4幕後勤補給支援之提案第542案 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6369.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6378.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
雜項設備費檢列300萬元委員馬文君等提案第543案檢列172萬元凍結30%委員徐巧欣等提案第544案第8目結訊網路資訊設備及作業系統提升案升級案凍結500萬元委員黃仁等提案第545案第1目一般事務費檢列249萬元委員徐巧欣等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6397.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6414.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
第546至549案為主決議現在宣讀主決議之內容第546案有鑒於飛行軍官養成不義請空軍司令部後續加強飛行員求生訓練以為人員安全提案人委員陳永康等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6416.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6444.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
第547案審計部112年度中央政府總決算審而報告指出國軍現行心理輔導山井防處機制未能有效發掘致傷人員及時介入輔導國防部雖然以編列預算連結民間機構支援國軍人員心理輔導協處但仍未能及時防範建議應投注資源與強化基層幹部及各級心腹人員專業能力之培訓工作提案人委員陳冠廷等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6447.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6455.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
海軍提出新式港型拖船購置計劃總經費9億6800萬2000元辦理其成109至113年度規劃購置3200匹以上馬力拖船7艘因招標進度不順以至109至112年度預算逾8成辦理報繳鑑於海軍司令部應經積極應對提案人委員陳冠廷等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6475.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6498.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
第549案114年度陸軍司令部統籌各軍種需求提出新式步槍投資建案規劃籌購新型步槍及雷射模組等設備總經費81億餘元辦理其成114至118年度因列明全部計劃之內容經費總額執行期間及各年度之分配額 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6499.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6506.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
本委員會審議其建制成本之妥適性及合理性提案人委員陳冠廷等人宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6523.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6542.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我們公開預算提案的部分已經宣讀完畢我們現在改進行秘密會議秘密會議會處理我們有關機密預算的提案剛才已經宣告如果提案無法處理的我們就移到第二輪包含機密包含公開都會有第二輪的部分我們現在改進行秘密會議請議事人員清場 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
14371.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
14371.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
14389.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
14390.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
14413.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
14416.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
14441.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
14441.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
14461.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
14461.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
14476.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
14476.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
14498.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
14504.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
14512.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
14514.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
14537.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
14537.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
委員會委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
14567.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
14567.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
14600.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
14601.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
14626.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
14626.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
14677.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
14679.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
14729.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
14729.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
14800.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
14800.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
14844.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
14856.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
14865.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
14865.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
16252.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
16278.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們一點恢復開會本席在這邊先宣告我們按照審查的順序待會先從稅入的53、54、55三個稅入案開始處理稅入案處理完之後先處理國防部所屬的七個通案通案處理完接下來從入軍開始一個軍種一個軍種處理這個都跟以往是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
16281.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
16297.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我再講一次我們待會先從稅路三個案子處理稅路分別是53、54、55那稅路處理完之後呢國防部所屬單位有7個案子是通案我們通案先處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
16298.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
16320.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
通案處理完之後我們從軍種入軍開始進行主案審查另外我們併案的原則也是以分支計劃作為併案原則為了審查的效率以及把時間留在比較有不同意見的討論上對於已經溝通完均的待會請各所屬單位報告的時候如果有 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
16321.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
16350.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
有溝通結論直接報告溝通結論委員確認沒有問題我們就過去如果有委員要垂詢我們就詢答另外如果在公開預算部分第一輪無法達成共識的話我們就會移到第二輪如同我們剛才機密預算一樣機密預算沒有達成共識的我們會移到第二輪所以會有第二輪的機密會議第二輪的公開預算審查以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
16353.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
16364.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
本期做如此的宣告我們現在先來處理第53案53案稅錄的部分是陳冠廷委員提案來軍備局請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
16366.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
16386.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
準備局說明第53案為陳冠廷委員針對國防部經營土地因積極活化都市土地利用感謝委員指導本案已向委員說明同意依委員的提案辦理請指導來那個陳委員沒有意見可以好這個是你是3100萬嗎沒有這是增列的部分增100萬嗎對增100萬OK好我們第53案稅率增列100萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
16393.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
16415.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
第54案到55案兩案並案處理請征戰局的征戰局說明來征戰局報告第54案為陳冠廷委員針對其他雜項收入增列五億元的提案感謝委員的指導本案已經向委員說明建請同意改列主決議來陳委員陳委員54 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
16423.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
16437.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
改略主決議第55案為陳冠廷委員針對國防部應加強監督執行中科院成覽工程及研究案感謝委員指導本案已向委員說明現請同意改略為主決議請指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
16438.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
16443.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
請各位委員翻到第56案到62案這是國防部所屬的通案那通案的話我們這裡有沒有併案併案的那個表呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
16470.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
16496.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以要一案一案來還是有在裡頭包含的就可以發言好我們現在處理到國防部所屬通案那我們合併的話也是以分支計劃啦那當然沒有提案的委員要詢問也是OK啦等一下那個不好意思委員那個剛才組決議這個地方我想要補充說明一下請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
16498.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
16504.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
中科院提到會在剩餘的資金注入民雄無人機產業園區建設上是因為這樣才增加主決議,請按照主決議執行我們預算數不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
16523.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
16546.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
稅率沒有增加但是改用主決議這對民衆很重要所以再麻煩一下我們現在從第56案馬文君委員的提案請說明偵察局說明第56案為馬文君委員針對新府人員考取證照的人數有限的提案感謝委員的指導本案已向委員說明建請同意預算照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
16548.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
16555.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
請馬委員我們現在從那個國防部所屬的7個通案先處理第56同意照列有有有委員已經簽了好56案同意照列57、58案並案處理請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
16563.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
16582.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
五十七案是權動署預算向下的動員準備費明年較早預算增加的情形其計算及標準為何由陳冠廷委員來提案今項委員說明已經了解到相關的計算標準建請同意預算照列來陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
16584.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
16592.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
已經有提供公司計算同意照列好57、58同意照列來接下來是第59案請說明對這個緊接嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
16605.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
16622.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這個到軍總的時候總共跟相關的有14個提案那這邊先針對委員提案的內容做一下簡單的說明第一個就是智慧型警戒我們從109年執行到現在一開始是碰到紅色工藝鏈的問題接著是得標廠商有入資的問題接著 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
16625.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
16644.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
現在又有跟各軍總他本身的工程或是新安工程延宕相關的問題所以在今年上半年的時候統建的單位陸軍司令部把整個案子從原本114年完成延後一年到115年完成但是這邊在跟各位委員報告就是今年下半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
16646.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
16666.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我找各軍總參謀長我們每個月開一次會去協調彼此的工程的配合程度因為有很多營區不是只有我們的警戒系統在使用因為我們待會其實進到各軍總軍頭案的時候警戒系統很多提案14個案這個是通案的部分那你跟陳慧琳委員溝通的有沒有結論現在是講哪一個案子第59案我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
16669.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
16696.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
通案這是通案我們待會到軍投案的時候這些部分還會再討論我們是同意改動是兩百萬我記得沒錯是是是已經有發生故障是一千多次喔是這個一定要檢討這跟委員報告就是有關故障的部分我們從今年開始所有的盡頭交機的時候我們做30秒的進水測試進水測試30秒以上才算合格第二個就是今年幾次重要的颱風我們今年的因為風災的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
16698.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
16698.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
委員（ |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
16711.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
16734.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
第59案凍結兩百萬書面報告後使得凍資然後58案不好意思趙偉因為58案我們記得我們跟他們的溝通結果是修正文字後改動50萬三個月內剛才已經同意趙烈了同意了嗎這個案子已經過去了我說57案趙烈可是58案沒關係沒關係可以可以我們已經過去盡量不要待會否則這樣會開不完好那就趕快來 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
16738.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
16747.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
接下來第60案的通案來請說明業管說明要不要我直接講這樣比較快 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
16748.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
16748.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
16780.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
16804.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
60、169及379三案總共凍結兩百萬元但要經同一時的凍支那我希望了解的理由是呢國軍要確保步槍跟這個步槍配件的模組的數量要一定要相當然後呢每日含的步槍兵他們都有配這個步槍跟模組那軍備局我希望能夠回答就是說以色列公司向軍備局 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
16806.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
16825.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
提出的存證信函當時在2024年11月19日的時候就有關於這個T112步槍裝備的相關的這個專利疑似侵權的這個問題那呢裝彈器的規格然後藍圖涉嫌抄襲的部分希望一併回應那我這三案如果併案兩百萬凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
16828.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
16835.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
徐委員因為你的另外兩案有的在憲兵有在那邊我沒辦法這樣併我到那邊會再另外處理我們這個案子凍結200萬那個軍備局有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
16840.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
16862.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這是陸軍的陸軍的有問題報召委還有許委員陸軍這邊報告謝謝委員的這個凍結數下修但是容我報告那個參謀長因為這個案子後面十幾個案因為可云芝所以你們要不要沒有這個後面因為這是通案所以如果你同意這兩百萬我就先就這樣子的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
16863.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
16872.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我們待會進到各軍種其實這個都會再討論都會再討論我不會去併後面的案子把它併掉啦後面還會再分裂處理同意一下就凍結200萬提書面資料使得凍支謝謝委員指導好 這個第60案凍結200萬書面報告後使得凍支來第61案沈博洋委員的提案請葉管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
16886.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
16913.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
第60案為沈博洋委員對一般裝備的提案指導委員關心有關無人機空域的問題本案已向委員說明建請同意明與凍結進行指導好我說明一下我這邊沒有什麼問題因為總共問了7個提問包含這一個是否有優先權還有空域的機敏性等等的問題所以就依照國防部的建議謝謝好同意照列第61案第62案是林柱英委員的提案請葉管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
16916.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
16943.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
軍備局第62案為林楚英委員針對國軍新安裝案應加強督管感謝委員的指導並且本案昨日已由陸軍的參謀長跟本人一致向林楚英委員來說明我們後續的一個督管的狀況建請同意三減一千萬科目自行調整凍結五億元並向委員會提出書面報告後實得動之來請提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
16943.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
16963.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這個案子我很堅持就是因為你們來協商了4次但是我要強調的是如果說國軍你們在工程當中你們是最後的決定單位但是如果說這個事情你們始終無法做最後定奪連外部委員找來還是無法定奪最後送到工程會我覺得這種處理的方法是我無法接受的所以我現在請陸軍在座說明你們會怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
16968.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
16990.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
報告委員這個案子也就是我們找了外省委員那當初就希望能夠先行能夠在送工程會之前獲得一個共識但是畢竟我們沒有辦法去影響外省委員的決定他也是學者專家那外省委員他無法達成共識是我們意料之外那所以我們進行了送工程會第5次調解 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
16991.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
16999.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個案子齁我不想要影響大家的時間但是我一定要在這邊再講出來如果你入軍是這樣我不能接受或是送到第二輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
17000.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
17024.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
再來討論你們所得標的這一個所謂的專案管理公司在兩年內就有23次的維持結果它居然是一個業管的專案單位然後它造成了整個施工無法驗收或是造成爭議你們無法處理所以我要求的就是像這種劣跡公司你在招標的時候就要標註而且不是只要標註公司而且負責人的名稱你這會變成是你們國軍自己的這個不是剛剛我們討論那些機密的軍購喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
17030.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
17049.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這就是一個建設的工程營區的工程如果你們最後稱為業主的國軍無法自己來做定奪找了外部單位也無法定奪然後你就推給這個有問題的所謂的專管公司那我覺得這樣子你們未來你們所有的施工品質如何做保障那我覺得你們這樣的處理方式是我沒有辦法指什麼三一千萬會動多少錢對我堅持要到第二輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
17061.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
17080.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
陸軍,你們這有沒有溝通過啊?這個主要是...你的溝通我沒有接受喔有溝通過,但是...跟我講一分鐘的話我不能接受,放到第二輪第62案把它挪到第二輪,第二輪處理移到第二輪第63案請說明63 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
17087.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
17112.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
6364我一起講好不好因為其實我們之前都有溝通過那65黃人委員其實跟你們這性質一樣你們要三個案一起弄好我比較多我比較多因為我的狀況不一樣那這個是應該陸軍非常清楚他們過去有一個疏失就是呢他們在這個做懲戒行為的時候那對於我們的這個國軍的處理行為是有瑕疵然後法規引用不當的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
17113.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
17130.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
所以後來他們也有給我回覆一些撤銷四大過的撤紙撤銷人憑會汰除的一些說明但我覺得類似的事情我不希望再發生所以說63跟64凍結300萬元希望他們能夠再檢討不知道國防部能否同意歡迎入軍謝委員知道等一下預算我待會處理那個黃任委員要不要預算黃任委員有那個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
17142.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
17142.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
陸軍檢要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
17159.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
17176.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
謝委員的指導陸軍一委員的指導建議同意在63、64凍結金額300萬元提出的資料因為這兩個案的分支不一樣還是我集中在你第一個案之後好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
17177.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
17178.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
第63案凍結300萬書面報告後使得凍支64案同意照列65案改組決議第66案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
17200.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
17200.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
審柏洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
17215.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
17238.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這是反攻復活群因為畢竟已經有12個人已經進去了那我知道現在要盤點這些人要看一些文件需要花一點時間但我還是希望第一個就是上面寫說希望在三個月之內能夠盤點完畢這是第一個在主決議的部分第二個我覺得最重要的事情就是我記得好像接下來在一些其他的特定的活動的時候也會把他們列入是不是也把這個放到主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
17239.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
17245.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
反共救國軍同意改組決議沈伯陽委員的66案改組決議請陸軍注意組決議的內容接下來第67到68案併案說明請陸軍說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
17256.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
17271.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
第6768案為馬文俊委員針對計畫管理作業的科目預算提案指導那以上兩案已向委員說明第67案同意委員提案辦理第68案建請同意名語三檢及凍結進行指導來請馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
17274.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
17278.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個部分同意67案凍結20萬不過這個錢很少可是我們特別提出來是因為我們希望提出說明的時候你增加一倍的預算可是你的理由是說因為我們增加了32個單位所以我們增加我們編了268萬可是你268萬如果分給32個單位一個單位才幾千塊你要用一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
17298.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
17299.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
第69案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
17323.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
17331.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
第69案為林楚瑩委員針對管考作業科目預算提案指導本案同意依委員提案辦理進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
17332.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
17354.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
提案委員因為這個6269其實是相關聯的就是我講的專管合約國防部應該擁有最終的合定權但是如果說現在就推給外部專家外部專家又說意見不一又無法做成決定那最後就選在那邊那我建議就是6269是不是就一併留到第二輪等一下結束之後你們再來跟我說明看你們最後會怎麼樣來針對這種遇到爭議的時候國防部是如何來處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
17360.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
17373.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
提醒國防部我們在PCM對工程的管理有一套標準作業流程遇到爭議也有一套標準作業流程一方面是為了防避二方面也是為了保護軍方作業的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
17376.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
17398.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以我建議你們跟提案委員要好好溝通這個作業方式是通案都是這樣處理還是這個個案因為PCM有問題所以造成的通案不能自愛難行好我們把69案跟前面那案一併移到第二輪然後這個第70案到第71案來請併案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
17401.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
17423.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
第77議案為徐曉興等兩位委員（針對行政事務的提案指導以上兩案已經向委員說明（或提供完整的書面資料考量案內的預算為執行基層單位（他基本行政工作的推廣以及官兵生活設施改善和救災（等事務支出的必要經費建請徐委員同意免於凍結並盡情指導好來提案委員冠廷委員有沒有什麼要先說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
17431.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
17432.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你的預算呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
17448.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
17469.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我這邊只是同意造列啦或者是變動也可以那這樣的話呢因為我的想法也是一樣的主要會凍結的理由也是希望能夠像是一些參訪接待肯定環境佈置等等能夠這個盡量的來這個尊潔那但如果是這樣子的話冠廷委員本來是凍結100萬嘛那我們折衷我凍結50萬元請問這陸軍這邊是否可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
17475.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
17499.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
7071案病案凍結50萬以徐曉欣委員為主題案書面報告後使得凍之這是7071案你那個是肯清會是新兵在肯清喔就是對部隊肯清每個新兵肯清只想看到自己要的人來你們布置什麼花花草草沒有人在看會中委員指導來見面的人比較重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
17501.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
17516.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
72案請說明72案為馬雲軍委員針對政戰綜合作業費的提案指導本項已向委員說明建議同意免於三檢及凍結進行指導同意照列好同意照列72案同意照列來73案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
17517.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
17531.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
第73案為馬雲君委員針對軍事醫療作業的科目預算提案指導那委員關心有相關的這個物品預算編列的問題那本案已向委員說明建起同意下修凍結金額3000萬提書面報告時的凍資進行委員指導好提案委員請說就這個部分我想請教陸軍我們在比如說像 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
17542.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
17552.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
緊急衛材跟藥材（還有我們的戰傷救護急救包（這個部分近三年總共花多少預算（包括全軍的（你們不是陸軍統建的嗎（近三年這樣總共用多少預算了（ |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
17568.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
17575.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
跟委員報告截至目前為止我們在111到113已經採購了347,611組的33急救包 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
17583.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
17588.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
目前就是不足有9179組那預划在114年來辦理採購這是第一個補充說明的那114才編列3億餘元來執行總共多少預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
17602.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
17613.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
如果你連你所謂的9萬多再補上去要40幾你要買至少40幾萬的急救包是含動員部隊的整體預算是整個要籌補完是16億6千3百餘萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
17625.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
17653.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
分別在111年、112、113分別是3億、111是3億餘元、112是5億餘元、113是4億餘元整個111到113加合起來是12億餘元的預算然後你還要再買對這是最後一批最後一批還要再買多少3億所以你總共至少有16億總共是37,790組 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
17656.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
17660.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
所以平常我們在就是我們現在常備役大概是買多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
17682.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
17707.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
目前常備役補充的就是之前籌補的這34萬這裏面大概有沒有常備的就是我們一般的你是把後備也算進去對所以整體後備的缺邊都一併要算沒有你先用我們這個就是我們一般的常備的兵役後備的先不要算是常備有多少目前以常備現在陸海空三軍加起來編制大概是將近20萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
17709.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
17721.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
有那麼多嗎編制啊我講編制數你買的是給是實用的嘛所以你如果都按編制數那你的那個數額就會超高了啦所以我現在要講的是我們從111年買到現在我們已經花了大概16億多了12億多對將近12億然後你還要再買 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
17733.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
17743.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
可是這中間還有一部分你除了買這些如果買到主要16億多可是你每三年就第三年的時候你又要再編預算其實要把那個到期的又要再換掉對不對所以這樣你的那個金額會不會高的離譜因為我想我們包括所有現在很多的醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
17755.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
17755.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
17771.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
17771.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
17790.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
17791.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
剛剛我們提到所有的醫院其實他們在跨要道的包括藥品或醫材其實他們不管透過原來的廠商也好或者其他的方式也好就像你們的彈藥也會出塵就是海推塵 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
17806.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
17810.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以就這個部分你如果像這樣子的預算的使用我覺得非常浪費另外還有一個我們後備的你現在買那麼多其實它根本沒有用到你真的就是把它擺到壞而已所以你應該要去檢視說應該要怎麼樣去運用這些東西然後它應該要買多少數量因為你如果沒有用的你現在買來擺著要做什麼我們想不出來所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
17833.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
17839.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們要求一定要凍結而且一定要去所以凍結3000萬3000萬我們希望先跟大家說明一下因為這一筆預算真的太高了而且他不斷不斷的一定要花而且是浪費掉了我不知道他過期的用在哪裡謝謝馬委員這個軍總或者是國防部這邊可能要思考當然我知道這有點兩難就是我編制多少我籌貨應該是每個人一組但可能用不到因為我編制沒那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
17862.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
17862.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
17879.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
17905.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
簡少浪費當然我們是希望臨時緊急動員因為國家什麼時候遭遇到這個我們難測嘛所以希望是每一個被動員的人都要有但是確實如馬委員所說的這些單位可能三年他就要淘汰那一定要換啊你也不能用過期的所以要抓一個均速達到我臨時要補期我補得上來但是我平時放著又不浪費這個是一個管理的藝術這個坦白講這沒有絕對對跟錯我最好是100% |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
17906.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
17906.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
第73案動3千萬書面報告經同意後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
17932.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
17938.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
主要馬文君委員是針對教育行政裡面的資訊軟體設備雜項設備費用增加以及資訊服務費用增加那另外王定委員關心的是國軍組戰編 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
17959.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
17971.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
主戰部隊的邊縣（還有志願役官兵的軍費（志願士兵及軍費生的（申請前退伍等案（以上5案一項委員說明建請同意（免於刪減及凍結進行指導來提案委員馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
17977.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
17987.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
雖然這三案同意並案然後照列不過就這個部分我們看到今年明年114年很多軍事院校他的軟硬體有要更新的部分我覺得非常離譜因為我們看到很多的照片我們所有的軍事院校其實他是我們軍事人才養成的一個地方可是他有些硬體真的是破舊不堪這個我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
18005.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
18005.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
18034.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
18053.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我曾經去看國防大學我那時候還幫他們要了新安專案的經費就是我們現在招訓學生不要再演黃埔軍魂了那個硬體裝備那個在吊漆啦什麼的那些都是軍官啦所以我是贊成我們除了到部隊的新安專案以外我們的軍事院校 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
18053.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
18053.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
18070.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
18070.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
18095.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
18120.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我在歸人一個媽媽爸爸親自帶著一個小朋友他的孩子是在智能上有一些輕度的障礙被一個木兵講得花言巧語說進去可以照顧他簽完了要帶他去當兵了他爸媽說這真的假的就帶到我那邊來結果那一個木兵的人還衝到我的辦公室我本人在場好像我搶了他嘴巴的肉一樣進來氣急敗壞要把這個兵帶走 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
18123.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
18147.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
穆賓是一個榮譽當兵也是一個榮譽所以在穆賓的手法上我贊成我們國防部提高那些不管是薪資待遇不管是尊榮感這個讓留營的意願提高但穆賓人員我們下的KPI他達標的方式如果不擇手段有時候反而招了一個兵毀了一個軍團的那個軍譽這個不好所以我同意照列了這些部分請你們改進來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
18149.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
18158.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
謝謝主席我再補充一下因為我們看到媒體有提到說包括我們中國現代史要改成世界歷史或者國英文的學分要縮減我們如果說像我們現在有很多我看明年的預算還有編要去上英文課那你又把學校的英文學分把它減掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
18168.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
18168.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
18197.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
18201.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
在他應該有的職能他的學養其實應該要養成就要養成你國文跟英文差的話那你以後你要怎麼樣去看我們很多的包括我們出去受訓的都已經受到影響了這些如果你在這樣撿沒有理由我們要去支持很多其他的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
18218.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
18219.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
74-78案同意照列現在處理79-81案 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
18231.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
18253.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
第79到81案為馬文軍等兩位委員針對動員整備的科目預算提案指導第19案馬文軍委員關心其他業務的租金預算增加第80案為王定宇委員關心部分後備部隊所需的武器裝備尚未籌貨第81案為馬文軍委員關心要精實 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
18256.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
18265.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
教育召集預算的編列以上三項委員說明建請同意並按凍結500萬元提出書面報告時的動資進行指導麻煩委員請謝謝主席針對這個部分大概就是針對教召整備的我們花很多的錢去租流動廁所還有像一些洗澡的地方還有場地的租金我們花很多錢可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
18284.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
18284.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
18304.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
18305.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
18325.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
18325.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
（處理（三天一次會議（三天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
18341.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
18360.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我的提案是針對你們裝備籌貨特別是群動組成立之後還有我們的後備部隊不管是防毒面具、火炮類的裝備、兵器或者是望遠鏡、夜視鏡等等籌貨的進度都有一些慢像我們夜視鏡那是官方管的問題那已經慢了很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
18361.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
18374.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
提案是凍結希望讓你們的書面報告要涵蓋籌貨的時程我不要看到形容詞形容詞叫競速時程是我哪個年度什麼時候可以籌貨籌貨的變數是什麼把它寫清楚兩個案並案 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
18378.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
18379.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
以王定宇委員的第80案 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
18397.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
18408.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
為主提案並按凍結500萬元書面報告後使得凍支好接下來來處理82到91案來葉管請說明第82到91案為陳冠廷等三位委員針對訓練綜合作業費的科目預算提案指導那 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
18423.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
18446.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
82及83案為陳冠廷及馬文君兩位委員共同關心按日計酬的預算資金的增加那84及88案為陳冠廷及馬文君委員關心靶場自動化靶機設置的預算編列的情形第85案為陳冠廷委員關心砲訓部的簽借預算編列第86案為馬文君委員關心物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
18447.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
18474.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
預算的增加87案為馬雲軍委員關心無人機訓練中心的相關的訓練規劃第89案為陳冠廷委員關心國內旅費重複編列的一個情況第90案為馬雲軍委員關心軍事交流訓練的預算編列91案為陳冠廷委員關心無人機合格操作手術量不足的問題那以上10案已經向委員說明那第 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
18476.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
18485.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
82、83案建請同意並按凍結200萬元提出書面報告後時的凍資84、88案建請同意並按凍結500萬元提出書面報告85、86案建請同意並按凍結700萬元提出書面報告後時的凍資87、89、91案建請同意並按凍結1000萬元提出書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
18501.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
18511.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
使得動之第90案建請同意免於動機你這個是總數加起來你這樣子我們的病案通常是一個數額你現在是每一個分別數額嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
18513.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
18515.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
提案委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
18541.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
18541.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
財政部委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
18561.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
18583.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
包括初中階幹部其實營聯長大概就是初中階的幹部所以在開訓的時候結訓也都是部隊幹部那他的科目是什麼現在甚至連生理、健康管理、親子關係這個全部都是委外的老師現在全部都是外包你的預算經費高達 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
18585.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
18586.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
18610.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
18610.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我把我的一次講完好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
18638.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
18639.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
18658.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
18661.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
因為每一個靶場它不一定都是標準場地所以你在這樣子的規劃之下有時候又有這樣的變動然後要可惜式的啦或者靶機啦或者要做三個靶場啊都不是同時去做考量規劃所以我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
18674.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
18676.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
委員提到,我們有很多的,不管是陣地靶場（或者很多的營建工程（我們幾乎沒有一件是在我們時間內（把它完成的,每一件都延宕（ |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
18691.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
18691.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
18712.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
18715.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
在預算的時候都說非常的急然後蓋了10年有的蓋了10年還沒有完成我們都不知道為什麼他會要預算那麼急然後在蓋的過程卻可以讓他不斷不斷的有事情發生那另外86案的部分這個也是原來的砲校他搬到關廟那還要再花3000多萬去做教育設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
18740.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
18745.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
然後我們賣地的時候因為你像205廠在簽的時候他是可能把他是工程跟設備都一起含在內可是我們在砲校又把它分開你只有銀色設備又要另外再買所以我們在很多在談的時候跟地方政府當他要我們土地的時候我們應該要把我們的需求或者我們應該要怎麼樣把我們的運用的完整性應該也要一併考量這個顯然也都沒有做到那 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
18770.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
18783.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
。（ |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
18783.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
18783.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
18804.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
18824.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們希望就是說我們為什麼不要在各兵科裡面他的學校就多一門課就好了啊不然你還要弄一個無人機的一個訓練中心我們在我們的各兵科學校你如果增加這個課程然後以後他就可以一步一步然後大家都可以學會你學基礎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
18825.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
18848.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
應該是比較好你不是大家都是只有少數人然後一次你如果要全軍訓練好像也沒有必要因為大概還是會分配他的任務走向所以這個部分我們也希望說在未來應該要做一個比較完整的規劃因為未來無人機會是我們很多的重點那你如果都還要去專門再去訓練中心我想這個也會影響其他的業務發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
18853.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
18855.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
黃仁委員後來再換陳冠廷委員來請黃仁委員剛剛參謀長沒有點到我針對91案的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
18863.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
18888.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那經過你們的說明目前的採購的摩羯無人機已經全數的膠裝完畢但是執政力並達到這個百分之百但還要提醒提醒我們的陸軍由於每一型無人機的功能操作在任務重疊的不同這個執政力只代表能飛是否能熟悉戰術應用哪要持續的信念並強化所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
18892.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
18916.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這裏建議凍結兩百萬預算我待會來分配請陳冠廷委員我概略把這十個案講幾個重點就是書面報告的幾個重點第一個就是說很多的預算是項目龐雜目的又不一這個東西在書面報告的時候請麻煩給我一個比較簡單的回覆再來就是說我們這個無人機的部分你這個無人機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
18917.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
18945.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
入軍有25%沒有達到無人機的操作資格還有復訊的時候沒有達到規定標準跟這些還有技術上面的訊號異常、情質平台不流暢這些這個書面報告一定要把我這個填列上去這個也是很重要然後最後我們看到一些履費的部分是不是有重複編列的這個麻煩書面報告的時候一併來幫我們講清楚那原則上就是動的這個就我現在處理了因為剛才入軍有做了一些大家協調好的第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
18948.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
18956.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
82案、83案以馬文君委員的83案為主題案並案凍結200萬書面報告後使得凍支再來84跟88案 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
18963.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
18970.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
以馬文君委員的84案為主提案並案凍結500萬元書面報告後使得凍支再來85、86、85、86兩個吧85、86案以陳冠廷委員的第85案為主提案並案凍結700萬元再來是87 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
18990.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
19009.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
八十九、九十、九十一這四個案子並案凍結一千萬以黃人委員的提案為主題案並案凍結一千萬有比黃人委員期待的高很多了謝謝希望我們那個案子我們希望經同意謝謝全部嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
19010.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
19012.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
經同意後,使得動之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
19030.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
19057.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
還有那個水土保持師再見就去做生意然後還挖到古蹟就很多奇奇怪怪的事情他確實有延宕後來他的機電工程又斷供所以延宕到現在造成物調影響很大這是第一個第二個那因為在那個關廟那個地方周邊要有聯絡道路所以後來有多開了一條那個要求多開那一條的那一位委員現在不在本委員會了那個馬委員你是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
19060.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
19087.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以那個多花了4700是由市政府來做處理的所以大概是這樣原因那這樣原因下我建議陸軍因為砲校已經延宕太久我上次已經跟會刊的時候已經講過了你們設的節點是明年度要搬但是你們的工程能不能明年度完成取得鑑識照可能要盯緊一點要跟台南市政府公務局 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
19089.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
19089.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
主席﹗﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
19111.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
19113.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
國防部主管收支公開及機密部分． |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
19131.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
19159.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
有時候很難去堅持組長就把那個因素找出來就是國軍各訓場各營舍長期都有延宕、招標不順遂甚至於後面要檢向檢量等等把那因素列出來那可能做一個做一個檢討我們希望未來看到我們相關的訓場都能夠如期如質否則如期如質這四個字是最常在軍方聽到的可是其實好像很難做到這個務必寫在報告裡面好不好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
19161.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
19178.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
主席我補充一下就這個部分我們還發現到一個問題因為我們大概所有的案子因為都不小不管模擬管也好就從過去到現在它大概比較嚴重的還包括我們很多像我們的基地也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
19180.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
19182.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
他大概就是專管跟那個同胞還有那個廠商這些的對象其實甚至都可以不聽我們業主的一個意見他想要怎麼樣就怎麼樣所以不斷的延宕然後跟他溝通也無效因為部長是法律出身的我們希望未來是不是在合約的部分可以怎麼樣去規範因為其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
19209.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
19222.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
行政單位並沒有發生這樣的狀況沒有理由我們需求單位沒有講不上話這個在林楚瑩委員移到第二輪的大概是這方面不過我知道軍方有一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
19224.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
19244.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
他去違反專案管理或者違反外部委員軍方最怕人家講你們一句土利你們就縮起來了所以可能從合約面以及參酌其他工程的管理面否則軍方在這件事情上因為弱勢所以業主的聲音不見然後你們是受害最後被定的也是你們這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
19246.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
19256.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
一併請在這幾個凍結案的書面報告的時候請把它列入那也許我們到第二輪處理林委員的那個提案的時候可以更詳細的說明好 我們這個案子到這邊好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
19259.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
19261.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
92案為陳冠廷委員針對教育訓練業務的提案指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
19277.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
19296.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
939393939393 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
19297.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
19318.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
第9397案為沈伯陽等四位委員針對一般彈藥購置與維護的科目預算提案指導本部說明第93、95及97案為沈伯陽、徐曉新及林玉君委員關心紅準火箭彈的穿甲能力、射程及性價比 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
19318.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
19348.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
又於六六火箭彈已經服役40餘年其彈藥的穩定及效能已經逐年地衰退中科院在研發紅准成功後陸續治繳了海軍陸戰隊、憲兵及海巡等使用的狀況良好國軍依我們的作戰任務需求而且是依照一個國防自主的政策在不受國際局勢的影響之下採購紅准火箭彈來取代六六火箭彈以符合作戰時需第二個有關於在六六火箭彈的價格方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
19348.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
19349.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
19368.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
19388.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
有太大的落差另外中科院也針對紅樽火箭彈完成了君子裝甲的測試另外針對近期有兩枚不發彈的狀況中科院也研判出是傳火管的斷裂後續在實彈射擊的時候也都會派員針對彈檢和相關的社訊來實施檢驗以及相關的一個回饋 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
19397.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
19406.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
另外針對有關於刻畫錯誤的狀況其實這是在訓練上面可以並沒有刻畫錯誤的狀況在訓練後的使用狀況是良好第94案是馬雲軍委員關心軍購調漲近年受俄武戰爭等因素的影響國際的中華戰略物資短缺114年對彈藥的軍售 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
19426.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
19453.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
調整的項目均屬於國軍的戰略的緊需項目為了滿足需求及補充存量然後經評估後仍然循軍售的管道來辦理並依發架書來辦理各項的採購事宜那第96案為徐曉新委員關心軍購採購的龐大的瑕疵那有關美方披露的有一些部分這個存管不當的那戲為美方的無償軍援並非我們投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
19454.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
19477.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
預算向媒採購的案項以上上案已向委員提供說明或完整資料考量案內的預算為國軍反中華部隊訓練以及戰備工作推動的彈藥所需建請同意凍結2000萬元提出書面報告後使得動資進行製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
19478.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
19489.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
請提案委員詢問,來,沈博洋委員那這一個案子我覺得因為這個案子我們也看了很久那最主要現在我們在之前的專案已經有現在有彈簧刀嘛彈簧刀應該要買300應該要買個600架左右嘛對不對然後還有那個LTS600嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
19494.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
19516.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
再加上就是我們不知道之後會不會有古斯塔夫就是美國不知道會不會願意出手所以我們現在到底我們是需要多少的這一個紅准我們不是說紅准完全不行就是說我們現在還不論說是紅准跟之前66火箭彈的一個差異但就是說我們到底需求有多少需不需要到那麼多我覺得這個可能還是要有一個順便的報告還是要去評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
19517.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
19545.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
後來有給我們看新的測試報告比較陽春一點但是比之前大家批評的那一個我覺得是好像不少但是我覺得是不是這個一併都要先說明可能會比較好一點那個紅准的部分坦白講花了錢重量從兩公斤多變成五公斤變重結果攝距離增加不多穿甲能力增加不多後面還會噴火焰後面你們那個海報後面站一個憲兵那個根本會BBQ了 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
19546.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
19571.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以紅準一行你們對外宣稱的穿甲效能還有它的測試方法被質疑很多比如說你們不是用軍職裝甲來測試一開始然後你們還把那個彈埋在一個很奇怪的測試法就把頭對著地板然後這樣去測它的熱焰可以穿入的方式所以坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
19573.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
19598.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
而且你們是把它當作彈藥在採購你們那個測評花那麼多錢花那麼多時間重量增加那麼多結果跟66比起來比66還要不方便的話那我真的是希望中科院跟陸軍要思考我們要給國軍弟兄用的是好用可以用的東西如果還要跑到這麼前面距離只剩200米然後呢沒有打到履帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
19599.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
19603.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
徐曉欣委員徐曉欣委員後再來換林益君委員這個關於紅准的這個部分那我基本上也跟在定宇昭偉的想法一樣第一個就是說我希望可以得到說明的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
19622.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
19638.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
在有效射程裡面呢那我們在陸軍這邊提供給媒體的這個裝備簡介上是有效射程是220公尺但是先前的時候呢就是你們先前在做然後跟在談論這個事情的時候以中科院說法是有400公尺嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
19638.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
19667.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那就從400變220那大家就會質疑說那跟原本的這66有什麼差別那這個就會讓大家產生很多質疑第二個是我們有沒有就在很多的測試裡面我們有沒有去測試過我們官兵他們我們軍隊他們在攜帶作戰的時候戰術他動作使用的回饋好因為包含剛才談到的重量包含談到他的這個操作好的相關回饋那我們的這個軍人他們感感受是如何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
19668.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
19673.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
最後因為我們現在是一併討論93-97案對不對再來的話就是我的我剛剛95案是針對紅准96案是針對這個我們的軍購的PDA的這個部分雖然我知道這個PDA是免費的但是我們在國防部這裡在跟美方的溝通的部分看起來是有一些問題的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
19696.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
19720.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
美方他們自己的監察報告裡面都有提到運送的問題然後但是我方跟對方的這個溝通包含我們回復得到的回復所知到底這個PDA的貨運抵到台灣是由美方人員押運還是非美方的承包商給國防部的這一點呢國防部的說法跟美國國防監察報告也是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
19721.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
19721.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
李懿君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
19747.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
19767.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我是97案因為國防部在上個月的時候自己邀媒體現場公佈紅准的穿甲能力的數據然後結果反而遭到質疑穿甲能力不足那研發火箭彈的目的不是就是要發射讓戰車或裝甲車失能嗎表示中科院研發的紅准射程和穿身能力可能根本就是不足以破壞戰車和裝甲車 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
19770.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
19780.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
還有紅准的RHA的穿深值只是推估值（似乎也沒有做過什麼實際的測試（何況這個一顆造價還要花費了10萬元（然後如果用世界公認最有效的瑞典的也才4.7萬元（然後結果我們中科院竟然還可以研發（不但更貴而且還沒有辦法發揮功能（所以這筆預算我堅持凍結50%（如果不同意的話就建議主席保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
19801.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
19805.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這個預算的部分因為這個是分支計劃你的50%可能不僅僅是紅准所以我們剛才有提說凍結2000萬我們待會再處理預算數換馬文君委員來謝謝是94案那針對因為我們非常多的彈藥首先其實我的提案討論的凍結數是2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
19828.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
19829.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
19844.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
19844.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
19863.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
19869.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
他不是只有個位數的增加或十位數的增加他是百分之一百二十六這對我們來說會造成非常大的負擔而且我們不斷的越買越多那平均的漲幅至少都有百分之二十三在台美關係現在這麼緊密的狀況之下我們希望國防部可以想辦法跟美方洽談因為漲幅如果超過百分之二或者甚至更高其實對我們的負擔還有我們的預算其實都增加以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
19892.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
19895.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
對我們的獲得其實也造成影響像我們目前有非常多的款項已經付了可是我們事實上也沒有到貨脫勢非但有車沒蛋啊有很多東西都是這樣所以我們希望這個部分是對美的部分我們希望可以有主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
19910.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
19913.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
另外還有就是大家都講到紅准的部分紅准本來在我們205場還沒拆遷之前我們有XYZ的還有跟203我們有三個產線槍彈還有像這樣子的一個藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
19927.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
19931.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我們原來還可以自己生產藥柱可是現在顯然我們的藥柱來源就是我們的生產製造好像有問題所以造成是不是洪準在測試的時候造成一些問題我想這個應該要把它查查清楚因為66火箭彈跟洪準它的不同是在藥柱的部分它不管是大小還有它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
19952.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
19957.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
．19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
19973.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
19978.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
請需要新聞委員不好意思我剛漏講了一個部分就是說到時候的這個報告裡面我希望陸軍這邊可以針對因為保護國軍安全第一批的PDA來的時候他確實有一些比方說像抗彈板戰術背心等等的是有問題的然後還有槍支散裝的狀況都是事實那是不是我們在這部分也能夠去查核說還 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
19998.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
19998.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
提供第一批的PDA部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
20022.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
20035.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
不過以後大概要PTA很難了啦好那個看起來預算數差距相當大那個陸軍有溝通過嗎不知道有溝通那個馬委員的你再說明一下啦你再說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
20037.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
20057.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那個針對以上的案子先前有都有跟委員做過溝通那當然馬委員他有一些修正的部分那我在這邊做以下幾點報告第一個紅中火箭的部分他還是以中科院他的這個是一個研發和經過測評的單位整個數據我們認為在部校當初在這個媒體採訪他所公佈的數量是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
20066.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
20095.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這幾單位所打的一個參數那並不是真的達到一定的批量所以我們仍然是認定以中科院所公布的為準這第一個說明那第二個有關於有關於這個紅棕火箭彈重量的問題我在這邊也要做個陳復因為不能單單的就66火箭彈跟紅棕火箭彈的重量來相比那其他包含到古斯塔夫包含到84它的重量可能也都達到在這個5公斤以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
20095.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
20114.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
實際上我們在反裝甲武器的運用已經不再像我們想像的我一個單兵這些武器屬於單兵的列入火箭彈而單兵的反裝甲武器它的武器效能當然是在標槍脫勢以下的另外一個等級當然我們可以預制所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
20116.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
20141.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
反裝甲的伏擊區我們可以把我們相關的反裝甲火箭彈的部署才一個在安全的考量下做一個部署的方式我並不會背著這樣子兩枚5.1公斤的火箭在戰場上到處去尋找戰車所以基本上在重量方面也是結合它的口徑結合它必要的性能而是一個等比上面我們在一個作戰需求上面我們認為它還是一個合理的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
20142.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
20159.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
當然在後續的研發上面如果可以得到需求單位的回饋去做精進那這個當然也是我們樂見的這個第二個事情那剛才有提到的一些84的價格實際上那個都是在大概在很早以前甚至在民國82年的報價以現在的狀況來說也不是這樣的一個價格最後一點就是有關於沒有錯我們在所採購的 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
20168.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
20193.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
在軍售的彈藥它漲幅高達平均到23%那剛才講到也有的單一的向量是高達到126%那這個部分它也純粹是受到俄烏戰爭剛好對這個發射藥大量需求的影響而產生一個漲價的效應那事實上這個紅中火箭彈剛才我補充一下它經過了實質上的這個君子裝甲的測試它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
20195.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
20211.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
穿透力是達到274mm以上是也符合我們的需求是沒有問題那有關於剛剛馬委員提案有關於這個軍這個彈藥報價的這個我們完成組決議那供請委員知道那最後我要一點報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
20213.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
20228.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
委員這些指導非常專業我們一定會去檢討落實考量這裏面的預算在114年的編列裏面主要是對美的彈藥戰備急需的項目如果凍結到兩億的話對我們的在彈藥交運和這個帳單的支付上面會直接的衝擊到我們在戰備任務上面的影響建請 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
20241.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
20243.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
建請以凍結2000萬元提書面報告時的凍結以上報告馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
20249.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
20271.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
這個部分編了64億如果凍結2億會造成影響那我們現在都沒有拿到的彈藥對我們有沒有影響我們錢付了我們沒有拿到彈藥對我們有沒有影響這個部分我們要求的是包括我們很多彈藥的生產我剛剛特別提到雖然我沒有講得很清楚不過我們希望大家去查查是有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
20272.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
20278.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
當我們的一些要住要生產的時候我們的一些原料有問題透過其他的方式去做裁切然後去運用這個就會造成很大的影響而且甚至會造成危險而且是不是是我們需求的這是一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
20292.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
20293.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
20313.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
20318.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
沈博洋和林益君召委的部分先各凍結一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
20342.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
20344.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
馬文君委員加2000元主決意馬文君委員的意思寫向美方表達態度這樣好不好如果這樣那我要求把我們已經付出去的然後因為美方一直漲價我們一點辦法都沒有那你還認為說這樣凍結數太高那我們要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
20362.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
20362.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
20377.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
20381.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
主決議的部分是不是把美方應交付或延遲交付的項目列出然後向美方表達這個態度就是剛才馬委員提的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
20399.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
20417.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
當然我剛才講有的是他們產生的問題有的是客觀因素但那是他的因素我們的需求我們還是要把態度表達出來國會可以演黑臉這是一個那數額的部分我剛才提的就是說在這樣子加起來大概是凍結4千萬那如果各位委員還有意見可以提沒關係不同意林俊偉來 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
20423.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
20423.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
來,98案 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
20435.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
20462 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
第98案為陳冠廷委員針對運輸作業的科目預算提案指導本案已向委員說明建議同意下修凍結金額為100萬元提出書面報告後時的動資進行指導好98、99到100那其實原則上書面報告就是三個重點就是說有沒有必要有沒有重複然後最後一個就是說為什麼會這麼多特別是這個水電費這個怎麼會多的到多到3億多這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
20464.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
20464.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
20481.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
20481.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
101案 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
20501.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
20517.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
第101案為徐曉鑫委員針對通信電子與資訊科目預算的提案指導委員關心在資訊安全防護的計畫在此提出說明我們在資訊安全防護是一道國防部的資安林信任的指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
20520.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
20541.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
導入了資訊安全管理以及取得ISO的國際認證也建置了檔案的傳輸及加密和資料交換的系統限制使用者的權限也可以回溯任何存取的路徑以全面提升資訊安全的能量本軍從持恆的要求各級不得使用大陸品牌的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
20543.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
20569.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
並持續辦理資安講習及人員訓練以避免產生資安下系本案已向委員提供資料考量案內預算為執行各項資通電、演訓及資安防護工作必要經費建請同意免予刪減下修凍結預算100萬元提出書面報告,敬請委員指導提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
20570.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
20596.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這個部分就是我國國軍近年有多起的個資外洩包含情報人員、高階將領等個資外洩的情況所以說我覺得在這個新聞上面也都看到了大家都覺得非常不可思議雖然國防部的說法是說沒有流出真的會對我們的情報人員或什麼等等的一些個資但是我覺得這整體的一些我們在資訊上面的做法並不是很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
20596.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
20620.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
第2個就是軍方已經在包含這個會期裡面就已經有很多次的被揭露說有大陸制貼牌MIT的問題這點是完全無法接受的而且是不只一個委員找到像我當時是在這個行車記錄器的部分然後好像是黃國昌委員吧他提到的是其他的部分也都是就是說我們在採購的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
20621.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
20621.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
20639.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
20639.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
是否同意? |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
20662.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
20681.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
你們這個有溝通過嗎沒有這個是提出面不過這個資安當然是很重要不過每個樣帶還是要把釐清說明清楚貼牌我們禁用中國製的零組件除非正面表現可以的有些通用件什麼的但是像上一次那個人事人員把 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
20682.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
20682.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
徐巧欣委員．部分． |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
20703.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
20706.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
剩下的剩下的剩下的剩下的剩下的剩下 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
20718.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
20735.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
對阿,我不覺得很過分阿原本是事業是提醒你們以後要多注意阿是,請也是接受委員的指導你接受就接受了嘛,好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
20736.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
20741.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
101案檢列200萬科目自行調整凍結200萬書面報告後使得凍值接下來處理102案到115案病案904我們不是移到第二輪嗎移到第二輪沒辦法有結論102案到115案來請病案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
20763.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
20782.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
第102到115案為徐曉新等4位委員針對軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修的科目預算提出指導那這個案子比較多做個報告第102案徐曉新委員關心行財零附件等軍購的籌補 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
20784.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
20789.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
本軍在近三年檢討在航才臨附近的籌補．有657項均於兩年內交運另外在交運期間的我們美季均含請美團來透過吹詢．定期的華美臨附近採購的專案管理會議來掌握交貨進度以加速美方的交運期程確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
20808.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
20813.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
103 馬文君委員關心（次增飛彈可靠度儲存計劃預算增加部分104 馬文君委員關心（但要委託建設效能105 陳冠廷委員關心（軍備局能量不足延遲供貨問題106 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
20831.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
20843.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
以及112-115案為徐曉新委員及林毅君委員共同關心防護頭盔及看浪板的防護力等目前依照期程辦理委制協議書的簽訂有關委員提及的檢測報告的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
20848.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
20863.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
軍備局克正辦理TUF認證（我們在後續的驗收（將會依照相關的認證標準嚴格把關（確保官兵在戰場上防護力的安全第107案為徐曉新委員關心送美回修的實質效益本部統計109到113年可修建送美回修件有1900餘件（完修率達到99.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
20875.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
20894.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
送修期間也都備有庫存的周轉量（可以維持本軍的主戰裝備的妥善（送美回修後（經本軍檢驗未合格的品項（軍醫規定向美方提起索賠（持續透過美團及專管（管制相關的送修項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
20896.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
20912.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
第108案及111案為馬文君委員關心錄製零件及單價高於市場行情為了強化防範錄製品管理作為依照國防部禁用大陸地區產品認定以及履歷驗收的諸位指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
20913.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
20939.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
除了在契約來定定統一的標準之外要求單位要不定期的訪商履約督導並採取不同程度的驗收如查獲交付錄製的品項則依規定辦理計法及停權那另為確保案件內的裝備的維護水準均限定要以原廠料件來辦理維修而針對零件的這個單價訂定也都考量這個廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
20941.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
20950.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
在政府採購網公告的報價之外（也參考行政院主計總署公布的物價統計月報（來辦理已服時需（有關於這個108案（要特別做個報告（是裡面相關戰甲車等主戰裝備（還有三軍通用的戰鬥車輛（這個是我們在因應現在（尤其因應現在兩岸情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
20966.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
20966.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
20988.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
21010.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
第114案是馬雲軍委員關心保修訓練維修器的合約變革主要是有兩型機考量這個保修訓練器它已經賣入中售期而且班隊的訓練使用頻繁為了維護維修的品質所以在114年以5年合約的方式來訂定有關於相關的採購辦法我們針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
21013.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
21016.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
委員專業的指導我們已經針對本案先前的辦理停標後續我們已經去函美軍詢問相關的有關於授權的問題後面會視美軍的回覆採取最合宜的採購方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
21034.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
21048.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
處理的建議以上14案均與向委員說明考量案內的預算為籌貨個人武器裝備防護用具以及零附件構置的必要經費第102、105到108以及112到115案建請同意併案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
21058.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
21076.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
5百萬,那這邊部分馬文君委員的提案是5千萬那這個部分還要請委員指導那並由我們提出書面報告時的動資第二個在103案的部分建請同意下修凍結金額為5百萬提出書面報告時的動資 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
21077.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
21084.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
第104案建請同意下修凍結金額為400萬元提出書面報告後時的凍資第109案這個馬雲軍委員我們溝通過但是馬雲軍委員他的提案是要3減3000萬凍結1000萬這個部分在陸軍的懇求是建議3減4項已經沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
21105.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
21115.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
消息商員的模擬器建議能夠3-315萬以維護我們其他在模擬器方面的運作坑不自行調整免於凍結在第110案建請同意下修金額為500萬元坑不自行調整免於凍結第111案建請同意免於凍結以上敬請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
21133.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
21134.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
114年新型的抗蛋白卻沒有可供檢驗的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
21155.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
21159.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
甚至還是新一年度的徵購的頭盔好像也連凹陷的測試都沒有依循美軍的規格做測試所以私下做的測試真的是合格嗎還有目前國軍抗彈板的和抗彈頭盔到底是什麼標準在測試因為這個是有關我們的國軍弟兄生命的安全所以我這幾個案子每一個案子就改動500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
21183.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
21184.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
抗彈板（抗彈頭盔 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
21200.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
21213.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
康乃堡的部分現在我們就按照去年的一個委員的我們都按照美軍的ISAPI的現在我們在大湖濱我們已經提出了一個TAF的一個申請我上上禮拜我也親自拜會ISAPI就是軍規測試對軍規測試然後也上上禮拜我親自拜會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
21217.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
21217.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
大埔埔埔埔埔埔埔埔埔 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
21235.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
21235.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
21266.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
21266.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
徐曉新委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
21280.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
21295.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們也是因為為了要保障這個國軍的安全那你們現在有這個TAF軍規測試但是呢我希望到時候書面報告的時候要針對這個表面圖層跟磁性快扣也要有明確的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
21296.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
21303.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
而且你們回覆給我們的這個內容裡面有講說這個關於各裝材料材料生產線軍品零件布料等都是軍備局定定由軍備局統一規格生產製造再播交給這個各軍種使用本軍然後帶軍備局調查結果辦理後續委製作業所以這個調查結果到底怎麼樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
21320.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
21346.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
就是說如果說先前我們講的這些東西也要去調查那調查結果也還沒有出來那我想凍結是必要的那凍結數額是多少其實我沒有意見但是我覺得既然你調查結果都還沒有出來至少我得到的這個說明回復是這樣然後呢我們也有很多的其他疑問包含這個剛毅君朝委剛講到的然後還有另外就是綁標的問題因為每一次講到抗彈板的時候都會有綁標的疑慮那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
21349.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
21362.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
綁標的疑慮要怎麼樣化解然後你們的整個採購SOP要怎麼樣去做才會讓未來不要再每一次講到抗難版的時候都要再有人提出來一次我覺得這一點你們要好好去檢討那至於凍結數的部分大家討論好我沒有特別的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
21364.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
21378.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
你剛才徐曉駿委員提那幾項是我諮詢的時候提的那些東西那你有調查的結果是不是跟大家說明一下就是表面塗料我坦白講你們那一個是沒有進到會議裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
21379.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
21404.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
但是有人這樣處理會害了國軍我一直跟你們提醒這件事情後來我們把點破之後你們當然標準就不會去修完了不會那麼荒謬的去用磁性扣帶的那個植北針會影響那個是不是軍備局再要說明一下第一個我們在表面我們就是巨鳥第一個我們就是跟局員說明所有的噴土都是規定巨鳥跟美軍是同一個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
21404.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
21428.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那之前我們王朝偉也有資訊是用D類子的我們去查的結果我們現在這個標案都還在審視當中也還沒有送出任何一頂去噴我們大批量交軍的一個圖層的部分那徐委員這樣指導我們會更加注意絕對是巨鳥我們都是一定會採取最有利標的部分第二個是第二個是在講到我們這個有後續有一些榜標的部分我們現在都是採先採資格標但打過都是採但打過之後的陶瓷盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
21434.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
21436.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
．19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
21457.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
21460.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
現在用中國製品若不是我們正面表現合格的那個法我們修過了是修過了我們要關3年以前他敢跟你賭就是我拼賺錢抓到的話就是政府採購法處理現在是有圖形的我們要讓廠商知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
21483.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
21484.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
21507.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
21507.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
馬衛原有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
21530.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
21543.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
入軍有更動我們如果討論的動山數那我要求我自己的提案我們原來談哪一案我們都各自動各自山如果有問題我們就送第二輪那第一個就是103 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
21548.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
21552.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
103案因為像這個主要是針對次增飛彈儲存可靠度計劃這個部分因為我們現在採購的次增飛彈數量也不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
21561.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
21563.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
他這個計劃4年要花3億2600萬可是這個這是從114到118年我們在114之前從103到113相同的計劃我們10年只花2億8600萬等於說一年是就次增的那個飛彈儲存 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
21583.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
21586.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
主要一年大概是2800萬可是從明年開始我們一年變成7500萬它的漲幅高達三倍多它的時間越短可是它的經費越高另外我們現在以後採購次增的數量越來越多那以後這個金額會非常驚人我們不知道為什麼要增加那麼多再加上次增飛彈其實它是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
21614.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
21637.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
密封保證彈如果美國沒有同意的時候我們根本不能打萬一真的打起來的時候如果不發彈要怎麼辦我們都不曉得所以我們只有越來越高每年越來越高高達三倍多的這樣的經費去把它儲存可是我們大概都沒有一個自主性這個部分我們同意其實是把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
21637.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
21639.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
（中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分．三天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
21657.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
21678.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
主案講,其實我們病案也是有病案的道理啦如果可以兩個併在一起的話,比較有效率主案講,那主案講如果沒有問題的當然就過了嘛,好阿如果有問題的提出來討論,這樣我們可能會比較有效率,比較聚焦一點因為他併的,我們都已經聽不出來說我們的那個凍結的理由在哪裡了對,凍結理由大概有表述啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
21679.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
21680.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
中科院檢修脫勢非但效能以前是美國版現在是中科院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
21702.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
21723.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我們現在發射架是新的可是彈是舊的因為新的是用電子導控舊的是用線控那我們現在其實還有很多的舊彈因為以前捨不得用捨不得打那現在還有很多到底要怎麼辦不曉得那另外還有就是像我們這一次在天馬操演的時候有多美的這個托斯飛彈其實都墜海也造成霧濕所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
21730.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
21752.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
當然對外的說明原因第一個就是操作的熟練度第二個是天候環境第三個是非氮電子元件老化那你老化我們不會修嗎這是一個因為我們數量非常大第二個是天候環境你天候環境如果有影響當天我們看不出來是有什麼太大的影響可是我們其中一個理由是天候環境第一個是操作熟練度 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
21753.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
21755.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
你今天如果沒有讓我們所有的我們所有的軍人因為他都他要打的話你所謂的熟練度是什麼所以他掉那麼多是因為他的熟練度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
21765.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
21780.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
包括他是不是因為他的電子導引跟現控這兩個不一樣造成他墜海其實有很多因素可能都可以去釐清的那雖然不是中科院的問題可是如果是這麼講的話我們為什麼要花7200萬讓你去檢修你花7200萬去檢修結果你說出來的理由都是你的熟悉度啦你的天候環境啦還有原件老化那你的老化 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
21794.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
21794.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
另外在108的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
21815.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
21816.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
這個是凍結五千萬這個的原因是什麼因為他這個編列高達五十億我們所有我們不是要去主要要去我們沒有刪減照理說應該要刪減我記得之前在之前的去年或者上個會期的時候我們都有提到我們的車輛的維修的維保的一個費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
21840.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
21845.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我們過去以為我們就像我們自己的車子如果是壞掉了我們就會送回修車廠嘛你如果比較好也許你會送原廠可是如果時間比較久了有些你甚至比較就是比較有信用的修車廠他都可以修有些零件很簡單可是我們現在編列的預算非常不合理之前被我們講出來是因為他用造假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
21865.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
21866.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
21892.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
21892.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
21909.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
21932.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
他還是賺了一億七千萬當然還有工時啦這個我們沒有辦法說他賺那麼多那個是比較離譜可是顯然非常的高這個部分我們要求要凍結五千萬是有原因而且我們已經講過很多次這個也非常不合理你是用合約價你不是我們以前以為是用那個那個你是勞務採購嘛可是我們認為是開口合約結果不是所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
21937.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
21940.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
109109的部分是因為模擬器我們可以看到他原來15項 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
21961.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
21964.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
本來要修15項,其他的11項是4億2千多萬,現在他扣掉4項 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
21983.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
21986.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
（編程還是維持原金額4億2千多萬（他說那四項減掉可以減300多萬（我唸給大家聽這四項是什麼復仇者飛彈系統訓練模擬器（第二個雙連裝次針訓練模擬器（還有第三個是AH這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
22008.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
22016.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
．19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
22025.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
22038.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
其他11項到底是要維修什麼、維保什麼（還要花到4億多這是我們不能接受的主要的問題這些模擬器如果你認為它只值300多萬你再來看我們現在後面的110案 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
22043.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
22044.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
113我們也是保修模擬器這不是飛行模擬器保修模擬器只是讓你看那個硬體比如說你可能有什麼樣的小零件小附件或者你的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
22058.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
22058.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
22077.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22107.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
。（ |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22107.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22108.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那四個是很舊的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22128.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
22143.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
那11項要不要唸給大家聽?那11項是什麼?他每年的預算他114年這15項的維修那扣除掉這4項消失性傷源他每年的預算是偽中科用維修是1億4千萬並不是50億 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
22147.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
22171.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
他預算的額度是1億多一年是1億4千萬總共要維修15項那這4項因為是消息營商員所以要維修11項那委員的指導是沒有錯這4項既然不維修了就應該把他的項目扣掉這個預算數是1億4嗎不是你總共那個是4億多他是分年他每年才1億4 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
22174.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
22185.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
對,如果1億4,瑪瑋你再考慮一下因為你這個3棟的數額,佔的比例很高他一次就是一個合約,就是4億多他不是一年一年的標他4億多合約是涵蓋幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
22187.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22197.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
三年（他的四億多是三年（所以一年一億多嘛（對一年一億四（所以你現在處理的是一億四的（我把它減三千而已（他四億多減三千啊（他現在科目是寫一億四（你現在刪掉的會變成一億四的三千（不是四億多的三千（所以你們覺得是（如果這樣子好馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22206.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22221.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
因為我們兩個都在這邊待了比較久如果你是4億多想要3減3000我們是不是1億4先減1000然後明年來的時候再把它減掉1000就符合你的要求否則你現在3000等於是把1億4的佔比會太高這也當慘兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22223.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22238.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以他這個沒有那其實就把他講清楚就針對這個案子其實他就是全案要減3000嘛對不對分年嘛對那因為我現在全案啦我現在就是講全案因為你跟他訂合約是全案只是你的你是一年一年給對 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22239.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22246.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
一年一四分年編列這個我們待會預算書是委員建議啦我們待會再來討論不過這個是原則上啦109的目標就是全合約減3000那分年減1000但看怎麼把它序名清楚馬偉你的意思是這樣子嗎對好那再來你的110呢110這個是全合約減8000萬然後凍結為5000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22269.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22280.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個部分我稍微說明一下它是針對我們黑鷹直升機的保修就只有一架保修模擬器就是那個也是維修的模擬機那個剛開始過保固的時候是一年只有編450多萬第二年編了550萬到了第三年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22296.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22305.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
突然暴增變成一千多萬到了第二個合約那是三年合約現在變成一年要三千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22307.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22317.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
就是它的金額暴增太多因為它可以修的東西很少我現在說的不是飛行模擬機而是保修模擬機這個部分它可以從這樣的金額跳到這麼高它也是合約價如果要因為我看過它相關檢修的一個項目比如說我大概都修一萬塊以下最多的是那個什麼面板七萬塊可是你卻編了兩千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22334.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22347.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那其他的沒有修的就是廠商賺了所以你是不是適合編那麼高我覺得這是非常大的疑慮所以這個應該要解好那個陸軍有沒有什麼說明黑鷹這個他那個是模擬維修的東西不是模擬飛行來你們那個黑鷹的這一個模擬維修的部分剛才馬委員講的如果有可以說明澄清的部分也要一併提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22369.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22390.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
謝謝馬委員的指導那針對110的部分它這個AH-611整個編列是兩億錢是黑鷹還是阿帕契阿帕契所以不是黑鷹阿帕契還有黑鷹的兩個我剛剛講的是黑鷹啦他們現在在明年因為過保固他要把阿帕契的阿克是 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22391.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22392.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這兩型機對於整個飛機的維修上的訓練是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22418.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22432.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
每一天的訊都要靠這個來事先模擬再結合實體來實作有關於剛剛委員所提的部分有關合約的部分我們也做了一個重新的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22434.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22463.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
也採取了廣邀商員重新再研擬有關於後續的採購策略我們會重新再來擬定然後會以能夠有效的建置在國內的能量參謀長我請你說明是就委員提出委員關心嘛那如果委員有誤解你可以把誤解如果委員講的都對那你就告訴我該用多少你剛才講了半天你完全沒有講到內容好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22464.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22491.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22494.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22510.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
他剛才詢問你的我在那邊聽都聽了他告訴你你的黑鷹直升機第一年過合約期第一年才400你為什麼這時候變成3000你要講個道理出來也許委員數字講錯了也沒有關係啊你完全沒有說明你就直接丟個500出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22511.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22512.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
你能不能說明呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22531.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22551.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
跟委員報告他這個合約是主要是因為他整個企算是改成5年原本是3年變成5年所以他從原本的這個每年的預算的編列才會去增加因為第一個年份尾上的年份增加所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22551.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22553.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我剛剛講的是單價就每年我沒有講我沒有講你幾年你要幾年你才10就10年啊那沒問題啊可是我現在是說單價有沒有暴增你是單價暴增啊那個後勤部你單價有沒有暴增他原來報4000多欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22568.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22582.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
之前我所了解航空部那時候匡列是兩千多萬然後後來新增編列之後他又編到了三千多萬所以原來不是四百嗎對原來不是四百我知道再下去之後我們會再跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22588.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22604.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
委員我這邊說明一下我們當初預算會增加原因是因為他本來一開始單一型機所以小H641那時候單價大概幾百多萬而已但是後來我們110年我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22606.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22607.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22626.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22637.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
現在110到113年為平坡的那個數字所以後來我們就把兩型機包起來讓平坡去做的原因是因為他的預算會比那個軍購案還來得便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22639.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22639.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
（處理（ |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
22669.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
22681.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
模擬機不要再拿來比較啦我是給你一個方向我就說你剛開始過保固期的時候他第一年就是編400多萬啦中科院執行的嘛第二年就是500多萬如果你覺得說你現在有兩型機那你把它拆開就是黑鷹到底是要多少錢因為你這樣比較會更清楚因為你黑鷹從400多500多到1000多到2000多到明年變成4000多 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
22697.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
22697.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
發言委員（ |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
22720.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
22736.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
剪裂8天、凍結5天是指全合約嗎?我現在數額還不確定,但我們把它變成每一年度注明全合約處理多少比較符合預算,因為它不是一次編全合約的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
22738.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
22758.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
否則我們有可能讓他第一期就完全無法執行也不是我們的目的啦齁這個我們待會看結果怎麼樣那個我覺得就是這整個就是毛委員剛剛提的這個案子啊整個過程可以說非常不清楚是不是在書面報告的時候可以再就是我怕書面報告也寫不清楚你說是可不可以就是分分開列然後等等的什麼什麼400、500萬我坦白講那個後勤部參謀長你要來說明齁功課要做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
22765.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
22789.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
你應該比委員了解狀況可是你説明的其實我坦白說你的答案沒有對到題目那剛才是馬委員就他的預算書的意見馬委員我們走快一點你把你的預算書講完參詳一下不見得是照這樣子我們大家再討論看看那有一兩個案子也許就跟徐曉新委員併在一起掛徐曉新委員的主題案但是目的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
22790.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
22791.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
陳冠廷委員的主案要提出意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
22820.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
22828.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們102案到110萬我希望我這個案子這一批不要移到第二輪因為這個移到第二輪一樣是很混亂的我們一個來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
22831.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
22832.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
徐曉清委員的部分102 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
22855.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
22877.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那我開始從102講好嗎那102的部分呢我希望可以凍結的數量是300萬元106案呢希望300嘛我把它寫一下對好300106案呢就抗彈板的部分我希望凍結1000萬元因為他的這個元獵數比較高106對因為他的元獵數是高的1000啦1000萬元OK再來然後107的話呢因為他的元獵數本來就少所以凍結100萬元100好再來這樣很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
22885.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
22885.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
林益鈞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
22906.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
22929.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
首先跟各位同事討論因為這個案子有點像萬花筒這種案子我都不建議移到第二輪因為移到第二輪我們還會經歷現在一樣的痛苦那現在各個委員都有提出他們的建議而渡本席休息十分鐘陸軍跟後勤部去跟個別委員溝通好回來場面上我們來確認數據我們把這一批先解決好休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
22932.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
22942.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我已經幫你們都想好了108案108案我沒有翻案啊108案108案那個車輛被淋不見的那個那個原本 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
22948.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
22966.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
是他的預算是8億多不是50億108案他是8億9千萬然後委員的提案是凍結1億那我們去辦公室說明的時候沒有不好我們去辦公室說明的時候那個時候是 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
22967.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
22977.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
欸!Debbie!Debbie!大衛!108案我們去委員辦公室說明那時候...271...271的原型件...對...26...26的那個後期件...還有...271的原型件...對不對...還有...後期件...後期件...後期我們...對...對... |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
22989.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
22995.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
如果待會時間上還可以我就留下來,因為我還到州裡面工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23071.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23077.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
其他軍種如果有第二輪的現在也可以先溝通我也希望第二輪就已經達成共識可以比較快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23545.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
23556.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我們恢復開會我現在把102案到115案做宣示大家聽一下財事的情形如果有財事錯誤請委員糾正來102案 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
23561.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
23565.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
徐曉新委員提案凍結300萬書面報告後使得凍支103案凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍支104案凍結400萬書面報告後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
23582.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23583.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
105案陳冠廷委員的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23609.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23614.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
陳冠廷委員的案跟馬文君委員的104案並案處理凍結400萬馬文君參議員用陳冠廷委員當主題案書面報告經同意後指的凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23624.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23629.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
106案106案凍結一千萬這個要經同意凍結一千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支107案凍結一百萬書面報告後使得凍支108案我看一下不要講錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23647.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23665.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
凍結五千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支109案簡列三千萬科目自行調整凍結不好意思他科目不管怎麼調整我是針對那個朋友來來我把它想清楚我想起來了來 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23668.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23683.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
109案是這一個全案要減列3000萬但按年度減列1000萬所以他是綁在這個科目裡面我就不讓你調整了然後凍結1000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23687.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23711.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
凍結一千萬凍結一千萬然後書面報告經同意後（使得凍支110案同樣道理他是全案檢列八千萬分別年度該檢列多少就按年度來均分檢列全案凍結五千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23713.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23719.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
書面報告經同意後（使得動之111案照列112案 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23722.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23722.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
凍結500萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支113案凍結500萬凍結500萬凍結500萬凍結500萬凍結500萬凍結500萬凍結500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23745.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23749.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
好102案到115案這樣子好接下來處理116案到120案請說明116到112案為陳冠廷等兩位委員針對後勤補給的科目預算案提出指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23775.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23804.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
在116案為陳萬庭委員關心火石人力委外的進度117案為馬雲君委員關心野營裝備採購的需求118案為馬雲君委員關心義務役精力品的使用需求119案為馬雲君委員關心火石人力委外增加及編列的基準120案為馬雲君委員關心沐浴機的採購等需求以上五案以向 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23805.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23810.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
委員說明那第116、118案建請同意併案凍結一千萬元提出書面報告後使得凍支117案建請同意改列為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23822.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23829.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
119案117案建請同意改列為主決議119案建請同意免於凍結120案建請同意下修 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23837.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23864.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
三減金額為五百萬元科目自行調整進行指導減五百那個委員有沒有意見沒有意見我就採視下去啦今天我們原則上我是希望照常時間開會啦但我們是不是盡量做到把空軍處理完那個王參謀長盡量我沒有說保證盡量做到處理好按照進度看有沒有辦法啦因為我後面還有部分部的好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23867.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23882.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
首先116、118案並案凍結一千萬元以馬文君委員的提案為主提案那書面報告金同佑使得凍支117案改組決議119案照列120案呢這個簡列500萬科目自行調整沒有意見的話我們就這樣處理好接下來處理121到125萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23894.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23901.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
第121到125案為徐曉鑫等4位委員（針對仁溪市短程防空飛彈預算提案指導第121、124、125案為徐曉鑫、馬文君及陳永康委員關心（建案徵購及交貨的進度（原規劃在106年到114年下沒採購（ |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23921.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23928.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
發射器178套（飛彈500枚（執行進度正常（因為敵情威脅（目前由陸軍來統籌徵購（發射器585套（以及飛彈2121枚（執行期程延長到120年（以依建案程序（完成建案文件的修訂（目前課證辦理修正（發駕書需求信函（ |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23947.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23974.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
第122案為薛曉欣委員關心徵購案的執行方式有關均購案在美方同意公售前為機密預算經同意後編列於公開預算另外針對美方以公售的案項如果因為作戰時需需要再次辦理徵購我們依照這個預算編列的規範均編列在公開預算送大院審議以服務國防施政公開透明的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23975.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23993.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
第123案為黃人委員關心非但單價以上五案已向委員說明或提供完整資料考量案內的預算為辦理裝備產制以及首批備份料件的籌購等的必要經費建請同意並按凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23998.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
24000.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
兩議員提出書面報告你不應該凍結兩議是因為馬委員裡面124案是凍結兩議書面報告黃人委員先舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
24012.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
24028.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
因為針對這個123案就是雷神過去裏面有出了問題就是福報的問題所以本案在價格上在112年10月每方提供的初步的報告本席質疑價格的部分認為單價比之前採購還高而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
24033.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
24054.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
本案真是非但剛好又是雷神公司的產品那雷神公司不久前才報出了這個福報的價格的弊案這個初報價格是否合理要請國防部查清楚再做一個說明我凍結五百萬好待會我會把兩億做一個分配來請馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
24056.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
24059.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
這個部分因為我們原案從108到114年是由海軍統建的這個數量就剛剛村長報告的500多枚可是他133億多後面突然由陸軍統建 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
24073.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
24074.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
24095.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
24099.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
這中間我們要付470億如果按照陸軍的期程他付470億可是他可能到120年才會給我們彈那在這之前我們已經付了高達九成以上的金額那對於說像這樣子的一個不管飛彈、發射系統或體物、識別器我們都還沒有拿到這個是一個問題我們不曉得那另外第二個就是陸軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
24124.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
24125.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我來處理預算數需要有沒有要發表意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
24146.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
24170.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
是那個我得到你們的這個回覆第一個剛剛馬委員已經說了這個你們要現在可能要先回答一下就是發價書是不是還沒有交給美方這件事情那因為這個牽涉到我們的預算就是要怎麼審查因為我們沒有辦法確認回報回來大概價格是多少第二個說呢你們回覆我們的是講說原先進度正常那為什麼同時我們在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
24174.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
24188.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
您們這次的回覆書面報告裡面寫到原案延長至120年原先是106到114那原案延長到120年的理由是什麼如果可以的話希望說明一下兩點說明首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
24191.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
24211.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
報告這個發價書的修訂信函預計在114年的第一季會遞交美方那第二個嚴長到明年的第一季第一季就三月前明年三月前那第二個在延長到120年最主要是這個案子最先是500枚的時候是海軍統購然後海軍統建那延長並不是第一梯延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
24218.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
24218.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
預算書的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
24240.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
24244.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
121及122案徐曉欣委員動結1000萬以122案為主提案書面報告經同意後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
24260.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
24281.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
123案黃仁委員提案凍結一千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支陳永康委員凍結五千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支馬文君委員凍結一億三千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支沒有問題的話我們121到125將通過接下來處理126案到131案 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
24289.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
24314.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
第126到131案為林毅君等6位委員針對營區智慧型警監的系統建置案預算提出指導林毅君、王定宇、黃仁、羅美玲、馬文君及陳永康等6位委員關心本案的執行進度以及故障率的問題以上6案已經向委員說明建請同意併案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
24316.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
24345.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
原編列數的十分之一那提出書面報告進行委員指導你原編列數的案是多少是哪一個案是12億嗎對12億那是一億兩千九百你要凍結一億兩千萬好對你這樣答應你要看清楚計劃沒有你這樣答應下去會整個案子不能凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
24350.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
24371.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
這邊幫陸軍報告一下因為這個案子是由中科院是被委制的單位那這整個案子其實我們一直很努力在趕進度那我也很希望有這個報告的機會所以這份書面報告會由中科院來寫讓各位委員知道我們的努力還有對他的那個他的就是系統功能的質疑那我們看要動多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
24372.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
24396.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
是多少的十分之一我待會再來做分配啦齁那個羅美你跟林軒等一下我先確認一下現在你的十分之一的母體是什麼12這個最少的啊凍結基模最高的十分之一沒有沒有你應該是拿你應該拿馬文君委員的當標的啦當標的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
24402.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
24403.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
羅美玲委員是林益君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
24421.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
24444.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
好有關這個智慧型警監系統很多委員都在關心這個執行的進度當然陸軍司令部有向本席來說明是交書面說明說現在只剩下海軍四足海的失作當中可是本席所關心的系統故障力偏高的這部分呢到現在我還沒有看到你們的書面說明我想這個部分的話我還是堅持要動那動多少最後主席來做才是OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
24450.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
24451.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
中科院提醒一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
24474.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
24474.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
24497.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
24524.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
近水30秒還有那個強風因為它在戶外環境這個東西其實我會建議你們要模擬適度的質量要相當品質跟價格是相當的另外就是說因為你們這一次暴增的那個故障數我很擔心我們有一些這些系統是因為我們大概在蔡英文總統任內台灣沒有經過大型的風災所以很多裝備在做的時候都忘了台灣會有大風大雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
24525.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
24526.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
林毅君委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
24537.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
24557.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
其實現在兩岸的局勢變化啦尤其是營區的警監偵的智慧化是非常重要的所以陸軍要怎麼樣加強對中科院的這個督導還有陸軍應該要怎麼樣就是中科院是不是定期提交報告報告這些細部的工作進度因為剛才中科院也講說他會提交報告了然後我當然也是希望說能夠趕緊的完成工項如期啟用所以我本來是凍結10%我現在改成凍結1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
24566.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
24592.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
林毅君委員我們是不是來並案處理來處理一下我們整個目標是可以並案整個目標凍結一億我們凍結一億那請書面報告的內容涵蓋跟我們詢問的部分及精進其實我們常看到你們書面報告其實因為精進作業衍生出來的新增成本寫進來沒有關係就誠實面對我要好的東西會產生新的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
24594.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
24622.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
該用軍規的該用好的東西國軍尤其陸軍特別喜歡勤儉治軍我是覺得有些東西你如果因為品質而成家成本你們要寫在報告報告裡面不要只報喜不報憂那我們現在總數1億的狀況下我將來分配陳永康委員的131案凍結500萬書面報告我看書面報告經同意我會放在馬文俊委員那邊就一樣的其他都是書面報告後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
24623.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
24626.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
羅美玲委員．動節500萬．書面報告後使得動資．黃仁委員．500萬．動節．書面報告後使得動資．剩餘餘數 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
24644.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
24670.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
剩8千萬王定宇黃仁現在4個500還有陳永康剩下8千萬馬文君委員跟林益君委員各凍結4千萬加起來就是8千萬以林益君委員的案子來書面報告經同意後使得凍結這樣各位有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
24671.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
24676.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
131 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
24679.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
24679.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
24708.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
24720.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
謝謝 這個我可能要說一下因為最近我們看到一個梗圖就是大概是針對他說有一個好消息然後有一個壞消息好消息就是地表最強的戰車已經到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
24722.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
24725.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
壞消息就是馬文君要三光潛艦的預算所以本來沒有看到這個梗圖我們只是對戰車道我們當然也是對我們也是好的不過他當然還有一些問題或缺失在可是我在這裡還是如果大家做這樣的比較我還是要稍微講一下M1A2T for Taiwan的 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
24746.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
24750.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
所以這個號稱史上最強的是不是真的有這麼好我想在這裡要說一下因為這個也都是一些相關的公開資訊了因為我們買到的大概是翻修件你如果像裡面的設計的模組我們還是類比的現在美軍他都是數位化的就是人家是用按鍵我們是沒有沒有沒有我們是用轉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
24776.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
24776.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
24793.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
24795.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
美國的外銷彈送給烏克蘭的已經都到A4的等級它的貫穿力是達到700可是給我們的彈是560另外還有包括射控已經都是第三代 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
24821.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
24842.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我們有一些像壞掉的甚至美方的教官也認為說那沒關係因為回到台灣以後我們再看看如果真的壞掉就線拔掉就有點像我們的車子如果在電腦上面顯示說亮紅燈那你找不到原因在哪裡那就是把線拔掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
24843.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
24845.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我為什麼會特別這麼講是因為我們有的時候我們也希望我們要怎麼樣精進可是不要有誤導或者甚至要帶風向因為這樣對我們整體的國防並不是並沒有好處所以我特別要提出來就這個部分我們當然主要不是要講這個那最重要我們凍結的原因還是希望說因為它本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
24869.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
24870.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
陸軍說明一下是不是有剛才那些情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
24888.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
24891.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
非常感謝主席給予這樣的機會做一個說明有關於所謂M1A2T4翻修件這必須要做一個說明因為M1A2的這個車體的結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
24903.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
24920.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
在美軍它包含到各個外銷的M1A2的家族都是同樣一個系列的結構這樣的車體結構在美軍的評估是會沿用到2040年所以裡面的色控包含到它的引擎都是全新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
24920.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
24943.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
並不能說以它的車殼搭配裡面的東西那當然它針對不同國家它有不同的客製化那這是第一個說明所以至於說翻修件這是翻修車這個基本上在說法上面我必須要做一個陳腐第二個我們的車子的色控是數位的色控那只是基於我們國人的習慣那與美方 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
24945.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
24948.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
整個處理速度它的這個都是是一樣都是數位式的這個是沒有問題習慣問題是全數位是的但是你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
24966.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
24987.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
處控跟案件控的差異那是使用習慣的問題那第三個有關於輔助電力系統在車外這個基本上也是我們M1A2提我們的需求第一個我們戰車在停止引擎發動的時候引擎發動它會有很大的聲音那因為我們車輛如果要維持持續關秒的電力如果只靠它的6顆電瓶的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
24988.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
24989.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
國防部副總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
25004.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
25010.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
他的冷氣有兩個部分他的冷氣有兩個部分第一個是他的核生化系統核生化系統其實他在車內車外會產生一個會讓車內的壓力大於車外那再加上頂門的關閉所以基本上他是在車內就是個核生化的環境那有關於車外輔助動力系統他最主要他比起歐洲國家也考慮到我們台灣的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
25028.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
25030.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
．19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
25044.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
25044.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
25069.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
25089.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
剛才這個預算數你們有溝通過了凍結5000萬那書面報告經同意後使得凍支這是132案不過我這邊附帶一點給陸軍知道就是說我們舊的M60 M48你們買了舊款新引擎讓它可以凍那個是張元勳參謀長時代來這邊報告的OK |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
25091.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
25091.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
接下來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
25110.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
25111.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
現在處理133案到138案來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
25138.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
25163.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
第133到138案為林玉君等5位委員針對高效能反裝甲飛彈預算案提出指導那既有林玉君、黃仁、王定宇、陳永康及馬文君等5位委員共同關心部分武器裝備尚未籌貨那以上6案已經向委員說明建請同意併案凍結8000萬元提出說明報告後10日動之進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
25168.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
25179.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
8千萬元（如果各位委員沒有意見的話（我們來分配凍結數好不好（我們這樣速度可以加快（來（有意見要提都OK（都可以（那我現在先來處理（133案到138案的話（林益君委員（我們讓你凍結200萬元好不好（ |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
25193.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
25212.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
李玉君委員凍結200萬元以你的134案為主提案書面報告後使得凍資黃仁委員凍結1000萬元書面報告後使得凍資經同意的部分我會放在馬委員那邊王定宇委員凍結200萬元書面報告經同意後使得凍資陳永康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
25219.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
25219.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
凍結500萬元書面報告後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
25241.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
25245.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
馬文君委員的138案為主提案凍結6000萬元書面報告經同意後使得凍支139案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
25265.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
25278.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
第139案為馬雲軍委員對遠程精準火力打擊系統提案指導委員關心部分裝備尚未全部遞交本案依委員指導提案凍結8000萬元並提書面報告時的凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
25283.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
25289.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
進行指導你們同意凍結8000是馬委員當初有說這個彈交了有沒有還要補充說明的部分來請我補充一下因為這個跟剛剛138都是一樣的就是它高效能反裝甲飛彈也好還有我們現在這個遠程精準火力打擊系統我們海馬斯這個都是只來車還有發射架 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
25308.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
25308.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
陳穩康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25331.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25358.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
海軍建議M142海馬斯不管拿到的系統我講彈30公里70公里來自於遠程300公里你的targeting data你要跟海軍的機動的魚叉要交連不然你們可能會目獲會選錯目標或是過分涉及一個目標或漏掉目標所以你的JCAP就是共同圖像要趕快展開 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25359.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
25361.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
25386.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
25405.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
陸軍這個8000萬既然有共識我們就凍結8000萬書面報告金童又使得凍之書面報告的時候你們要報告一下各種彈什麼時候會到如果該列為機密我們就列機密沒有關係因為彈抵達的時間如果認為是機密我們就用機密來做解凍好不好那個139案 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
25410.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
25417.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
但的抵達如果你們列為機密我尊重我現在先處理預算凍結8000萬139案凍結8000萬書面報告後經同意使得凍支來140到141案有沒有同意照列的趕快小修報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
25431.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
25448.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
一百四十到一百四十一案為陳永康等兩位委員針對遙控無人機防禦系統提案指導兩位委員共同關心的是生產進度那以上兩案已經向委員說明建請併案同意凍結九十萬四千元提出書面報告使得凍結進行指導是 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
25453.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
25477.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
並按我們以陳友康委員的提案為主提案那個是140案並按凍結90萬書面報告後使得凍支142案到144案請說明142到144案為李毅君等三位委員針對搬用機槍的提案指導李毅君、馬雲君及陳友康委員共同關心生產進度以上三案已經向委員說明建請同意並按 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
25478.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
25481.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
並依馬雲軍委員提案的凍結緣編數十分之一（提出順便報告使動之盡致到馬委員請說因為這個部分我們搬用機槍總共要買2060艇的這個機槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
25498.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
25498.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
25521.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
25539.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
來簡單說明一下那個跟委員報告齁因為T5的機槍跟今年預定是460體目前我們的我們一年的產量是250啦現在我們已經產製了300因為貨幣戰力這是一兩年新增了我們205都是雙班現在員工都是早上7點鐘到晚上 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
25540.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
25564.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
七點鐘才下班已經完成了三百庭我們就是還有再差我們會在明年四月底前全部場完之後還要去交軍我們就差那四個月我們現在都在加我們現在做好已經三百庭那這個委員的動結書就有道理他要聽你的進度那陸軍你的驗收也要特別因為他加班我就擔心病請你們驗收是要注意一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
25565.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
25569.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
但要他的裝填、填藥的方法、工法那些其實是很專業的如果我們能夠買到國外的就有技術可以移轉回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
25583.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
25603.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
我補充一下好不好因為剛剛說要一直加班這個部分我們不是那麼同意啊因為他還是應該要注意安全中科醫院其實也出過很多的意外所以我們希望你在這個同時應該要兼顧安全才是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
25605.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
25619.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
我上次有排區205 只有林毅君委員去我希望我們再排大家一起去一方面去看一下為什麼會延遲二方面給他們多一點鼓勵也看這些新式的槍戒國造的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
25620.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
25626.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
142-144案林毅君委員凍結100萬書面報告後時得凍資陳永康委員凍結100萬書面報告後時得凍資馬文君委員凍結600萬書面報告經同意後時得凍資145案環境委員提案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
25646.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
25663.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
第145案為黃榮委員對陸上機動布雷系統提案指導委員關心整個交貨的進度那本案已經向委員說明建請同意下修凍結金額為200萬提出書面報告後時的凍值進行指導來黃榮委員請因為當時你們陸軍一意孤行的堅持採購所以當初採購火山的布雷系統的爭議比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
25674.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
25694.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
既然堅持採購也就算了結果採購後面的交貨延宕這是凸顯我國對美金事務採購的問題每一次採購前都說急需採購後又可以容忍交貨的延宕所以這個是我們要檢討的地方以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
25697.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
25697.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
146到147請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
25723.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
25739.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
146到147案為黃仁等兩位委員對路通用行的油罐車科目預算案提出指導黃仁與馬雲君委員關心本案的建案的執行進度以上兩案已向委員說明建請同意併案凍結500萬元提出書面報告時的凍資進行指導來那個馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
25747.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
25747.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
同意凍結500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
25763.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
25767.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
第148至153案為王定宇等6位委員針對戰術進程無人飛行載具第二階段預算案指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
25788.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
25805.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
王定宇、林玉君、黃仁、羅美玲、馬雲君及陳永康等6位委員關心本案的合格操作手人數以及意外事故的比例等以上6案已向委員說明建請同意併案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
25807.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
25832.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
這也是最高的數額是那個152案馬文君委員是以這個原編列數的十分之一也就是6128萬元那提出書面報告後使得動之敬請指導來羅美玲委員然後再來馬文君委員OK我的動的這個金額應該少一個零 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
25835.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
25859.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
針對無人機非超所缺員人為操作意外事故入境司令部有向本席提交書面報告在數據上確實有看到改善希望這部分能夠持續來進進可是本席提案所關切的另外還有戰術型進程無人機它的操作反應延遲、訊號異常、氣候因素降低、可飛航時速等情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
25860.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
25860.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
25880.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
25885.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
152案的部分這是戰術型進程無人機那陸軍的做法是比較特別一點就是我們在決標以後他產製計畫書到交貨期限他核定的時間非常短只有120天那另外第二點就是還特別跟廠商去討論他的專用頻段然後又給了96天 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
25905.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
25909.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
這都是在決標以後才有這樣的一個做法那因為你如果說像商規的或者像剛剛這樣的一個特別的專用評斷因為海軍也沒有啊所以只有我們陸軍有這個部分我不知道為什麼要這個可能也要說明說明清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
25927.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
25949.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
請說明這位向委員說明這個所謂的專用評斷也就是說他有些廠商他原本初始的設計是跟那個核定的專用評斷剛好是相符的那就不要回去重新燒製晶片和測試那如果他原本的初始設計值跟我們速發部所提供的專用評斷是不符的 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
25951.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
25962.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
這也是一個合理的要求我們也是經過找第三方來共同審視所以我們針對它就是有不服的部分那海軍的部分是剛好沒有這樣子的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
25965.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
25989.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那為什麼不事先事先這樣事先因為那不能公開他的那個評斷因為你這樣子那評斷會被不是不是不是我們我們知道你說評斷你專用的評斷可是因為他已經做了就那幾家其實他們沒有理由你說因為你如果是專用評斷那會特別為某些廠商量身經做好像海上的評斷跟陸上不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
25991.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26009.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
現在有共識凍結百分之十我們百分之抓六千萬然後我也提醒陸軍因為其實無人機的運用陸海空都不一樣其實海軍最困難因為海軍有雜波的問題陸軍今天我就聽到不知道是馬偉洋還在提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26010.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26022.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
你們在課程的安排上其實讓它變成普遍能力而不是變成好像一個兵種的單一能力這是一個第二個無人機中科院院長也提過一個概念我聽得也不錯未來設計無人機應該要設計到 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26025.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26043.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
（任何人上手（很簡單方便就可以處理（而不是還要耗費人力（訓練完形成戰力（所以對無人機運用（我覺得這是我們國軍將領（大家面對的課題（可能思考要靈活一點（快一點（凍結數是6千萬（我現在先宣告（ |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26045.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26056.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
王定宇委員提案凍結300萬書面報告後使得凍支林玉君委員提案凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍支黃仁委員提案凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍支羅美玲委員提案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26064.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26075.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
你是寫50啦我們都用500啦然後餘數放馬文俊委員那邊啦就是羅美文委員凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍支陳永康委員凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍支這樣餘數多少現在已經2300 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26090.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26103.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
因為我剛才自己唸300,我給大家都唸500我是沒差啦,沒差來,餘數啦,餘數多少?200,但我跟他唸,我是跟他唸500啦我都唸500,我給每位都500啦,我都唸500 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26113.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26115.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
馬文君委員的152案凍結3500萬書面報告經同意後使得凍資接下來處理154請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26142.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26164.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
第154案為馬文俊委員針對幕後型無人機的提案指導那委員也是關心本案的執行進度那本案已向委員說明那委員的提案是元劣數的十分之一也就是2361萬2000元那提出說明報告後使得動之敬請指導馬委員這個154案凍結2000嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26170.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26176.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
154案凍結兩千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支來接下來處理155到157案第155到157案為黃人等三位委員針對無人這個我們剛才處理的是不是同樣的科目類似的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26188.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26188.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
15157請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26214.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26225.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
第15到157案為黃人等三委員針對無人機反制系統預算案指導157為黃人及滿軍委員關心貨裝的騎乘、拖延以及156案為領域軍委員關心投標廠商的風險應對計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26232.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26245.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
以上三案已經向委員說明建起同意併案本案也是157案以馬文君委員的提案是凍結原編數的十分之一也就是45667000元提出書面報告時的凍資敬請知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26252.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26269.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
來,黃政委員針對這個就是因為本案為了事傷而事傷導致國軍本應該可以及時取得了裝備但是呢硬生生的拖了兩年還沒有結果那本席認為事當中有太多政策的干擾害得國軍反而無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26270.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26279.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
依照自身的作戰需求規劃採購案（對防務造成了不良的影響（所以本席冰凍3000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26284.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26305.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這個部分因為現在的反制作為是非常重要剛開始無人機它發揮很大的一個攻擊的能力可是到後期其實都是因為反制干擾其實它大概就已經喪失很多很多的功能所以它的反制作為應該要如期如止的完成而且不要延期 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26306.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
26317.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
目前為止都還沒有合格的廠商所以今年的進度是完全落後我們希望怎麼樣如期如質又不要延期的情況之下這個精進的作為再提供書面報告好來我來處理這預算數155到157我們這個就並安處理了以這個4千萬嗎並安凍結4千萬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
26336.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
26340.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
158至159案為林玉君等兩位委員關心兼徵型無人機的提案指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
26357.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
26373.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
林毅君委員關心的是無人機抗干擾以及避障的能力那馬雲君委員關心的是採購的進度以上兩案已經向委員說明建請同意併案凍結1363萬8千元提出書面報告後使得凍資進行指導來有沒有委員要詢答沒有啦齁我們用林毅君委員的當主題案啦你們剛同意的是多少錢十分之一千三我們就一千三百萬啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
26387.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
26397.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
並按凍結1300萬（以林毅君委員158案為主提案（書面報告經同意後（使得凍支來160案到161案請說明第160、161案為黃仁等兩位委員針對攻擊無人機系統的提案指導那 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
26412.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
26425.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
一百六十案黃榮委員關心為何捨國產而外購一百六十案為馬雲軍委員關心採購進度那以上兩案以向委員說明那我這邊要再特別報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
26429.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
26441.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
在這個列銷的這個案子也就是反甲型的攻擊無人機那經向馬文君委員溝通後馬文君委員提案簡列 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
26446.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
26466.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
52億390萬3千元也就是原編預算滿軍委員同意保留114年發價書的需款金額6億2430萬3千元但是我這邊仍然要向整個大院及委員會報告陸軍對整個案的全案的需求以下做一個簡要的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
26467.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
26487.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
第一個也就是說在這個案子裡面雖然我們目前已經獲得291架的這個攻擊無人機那這是一個短交期它可以從114到115就貨裝完畢但是實際上這Otis 600的攻擊無人機在目前我們陸軍完成的整個無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
26488.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
26503.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
整體運用和需求我們的需求上面目前是高達要進2000架那也就是說如果以本案的在這個行政院核定的整歸書的這個金額額度欲度裡面115億那 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
26508.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
26530.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
有61億元的預渡（那這61億元的預渡（我們是建請大院能夠同意（我們增購（將近等於是適合國家的5億元（盧君將,我們這樣來處理（馬文有同意留612嗎（因為他明年還是（我知道,我現在這樣處理（因為要算精準（還是我們減列45億（這樣算得夠不夠（ |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
26535.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
26562.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
剪裂40...要算準喔 差一塊錢就麻煩了麻煩剪裂45啦好 我們的原則啦他們把它算清楚沒有問題我們現在就是就我們應該給每方這一次的一個發酵書的...612嘛對 應該多少 就是全案啦全案多少 就是多少其他的另起新案因為我們所有其他的對啊 但按照我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
26565.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
26581.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
一百六十案跟一百六十一案列銷案這一個案子我們檢列數以五十二億三百九十萬三千元扣除發價書的六億兩千餘億元請精準算出 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
26584.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
26605.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
第2個對於陸軍繼續要尋求徵購我會提案用主決議的方式來支持處理可是我們提案是不同意徵購就現有的預算我那個是另外一個案子我用一個主決議好不好我沒有用預算案我用主決議的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
26608.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
26622.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
對就是說他們繼續去跟Bugging嘛去爭取供應授權我們能夠徵購沒有那個徵購你另起新案我們沒有意見啦我們沒有意見啦就是不要在這個預算裡面去使用這個應該要講清楚我剛才報告一下就是說我剛才說我們的整體在 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
26629.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
26644.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
反甲的攻擊型無人機方面我們的缺口有近2000架不好意思陳法長我知道你要講什麼你剛剛已經有講過了我們的缺口有多少你剛剛講的刺針、拖飾還有包括我們的海馬斯包括我們所有的武器裝備我們都有缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
26646.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
26646.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
26668.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
26673.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
我覺得可以從二無戰爭他那兩架出去攻擊的時候全部被打下來這樣我們是不是一定要這樣子的或者他應該要求那個公司可以做什麼樣的一個更精進的作為我覺得這是我們必須要要求的因為你動輒一百多億所以我們希望還是我們依照發酵說這是預算的原則跟精神如果他這一次同意的是五十幾億、五十二億 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
26696.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
26697.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
26717.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
26744.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
五十二億因為這原始是來自於美國的發價書後來價格下降嘛變成我們要買的數量有餘額那陸軍說他們有需求當然馬偉認為說你有需求另外建案我先處理預算也就預算的部分我們同意簡列五十二億扣掉發價書上的六億二的多餘的部分我們都予以簡列這個我想馬偉有沒有意見那至於我們後面會用主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
26746.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
26765.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
支持或者授權讓陸軍在原來行政院合定的預算數內繼續去爭取這個案子大家有意見的話我們在組決議的時候大家再來表達意見我們先把預算處理完主席這樣對我們現在的提案的精神可能是有抵觸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
26766.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
26781.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
因為你如果提案你是要讓他這樣子通過那跟我們提案的那個完全違背我的主決議大家也可以反對但我現在先把預算做符合你的需求的把它預算先簡列下來那主決議我們大家再來討論因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
26782.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
26785.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
因為主決議我想表決的話應該是會通過啦我覺得我們可能並不適合這樣子做那我們要求是在原來的全案下去檢列那個預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
26799.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
26799.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
162案到164案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
26830.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
26841.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
162-164案為林毅君等三位委員針對新型步槍的預算案指導162案林毅君委員關心瞄準具的功能及數量163案為黃仁委員關心陸軍首年採購數量卻較憲兵為少164案為馬雲君委員關心設計侵權及年度籌貨量的問題以上三案已經向委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
26856.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
26871.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
建請那這裏面也是在這個164案馬文君委員的提案凍結數是編列數的十分之一也就是4271萬3千元那這個提書面報告後時的凍結進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
26881.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
26886.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
提案委員謝謝主席針對這個案子新型步槍的部分因為部長其實也特別講過就有請軍備局要去研製新的大口徑步槍因為現在包括美國、韓國、菲律賓這些新一世代的口徑其實都加大了它都已經到了6.8那我們現在的防彈背心的抗彈能力其實也都提升了 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
26906.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
26906.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
26923.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
26923.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
6.8厘米的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
26939.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
26940.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
我先報告一下首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
26966.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
26986.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
美軍他目前101空降師他預划採取小批量的測試那大概是10萬餘支的XM7的步槍但是相較美軍編制100萬餘人來說他也是仍然是小批量的測試那目前依據最新換裝的步槍的國家包含到日本的豐和兩棟式南韓的K2C1 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
26990.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
26995.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
以及泰國的MOD兩棟兩棟（法國的HK416F（德國的G95A1（以及瑞典還有英國（他們仍然是以5.56口徑為主流（這第一點報告（第二點換裝成6.8公里（那這個軍備局他的研製待會會有他報告（但是以現行來說（如果換裝到6.8公里的這個彈藥（ |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
27016.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
27018.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（ |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
27043.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
27045.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
我再補充一下因為我們會這麼提主要是因為你對岸的防彈的強度已經是提高非常多不然我們做槍幹嘛你如果其實在各裝上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
27071.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
27071.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
軍備局說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
27095.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
27123.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
現在是說明剛剛陸軍參謀長也說明了現在美軍的6.8口徑的它是只有在測試階段那剛剛講的它的我們現在5.56的每個單兵是210發然後你把它換成是6.8口徑的它只能攜帶140發重量都5公斤那這個按照去年找回的指導我們今年的年底到明年初我們會出一個班十把出來給陸軍去做一個測評也給他們的特單指揮部第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
27124.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
27145.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
剛剛馬委員知道沒錯我們的彈對岸的風彈背心它也在加強那我們針對我們現在目前我們國軍有普通彈跟鋼芯彈我們還會另外再研究一種彈種動能更大現在我們明年有的成果之後我們才會對外發表現在還是比較屬於機密的階段以上報告現在是公開會議我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
27154.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
27160.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
162-164案李毅君委員凍結100萬書面報告後使得凍支黃仁委員凍結100萬書面報告後使得凍支馬文君委員凍結3800萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支接下來165 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
27172.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
27187.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
這是一個案而已嗎對一個案來165案請說明160案為馬雲軍委員針對後備部隊手除線電機補充案提案指導委員關心裝備的功能與配置的規劃那本案已向委員說明建請同意下修凍結金額500為500萬元提書面報告後實動之敬請指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
27193.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
27197.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
這個部分我們也是同意下修凍結束不過特別提出來的原因是跟剛剛的那個可能那個什麼急救包那一類的是一樣就是他放著你像手持無線電機我們的後背每一個人都要一支到底為什麼他好像也不需要用到 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
27217.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
27220.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
如果頂多你先買給那種第一類的是一個新訓旅你可能還可以用得上那你其他的如果我們常備部隊你都有買的嘛我們買了一萬五千三百零九套我們常備部隊才一萬五千多可是你後備就要買一萬兩千多了它的數量跟金額非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
27239.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
27239.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
27262.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
27263.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
這部分的規劃我覺得好像有點問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
27290.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
27317.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
陳偉康委員我請教一下陸軍現在拐拐在後背是不是全部太粗了全部太粗了現在沒有用全部太粗了嗎我當兵的時候我已經是拐拐的末期了以前他去偷那個尺去插上去缺件了還是請馬委員支持我們還是希望朝長後遺體的角度出發裝備還是要麻煩一下因為後背都沒有裝備沒有辦法做訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
27322.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
27345.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
165案凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍支166案請說明第166案為徐曉鑫委員針對戰術進程無人機第二階段的提案指導委員也是關心合格操作手和意外事故的問題本案已經向委員提供完整的資料做個報告因為本案在 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
27347.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
27360.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
前面的148到153案也就是剛審查的王定宇委員、蔡永康、林玉君黃人、羅美玲、馬文君委員已經有一個決議那這邊考量案內預算執行的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
27361.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
27363.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
建請委員降低動機數 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
27385.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
27410.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
因為其實我們從112年4月到112年6月底為止有22起的意外事故那陸軍已經有這個邀請中科院開了5次的策進會議然後呢他們就是針對操作性能故障的5次技術文件等等的但是呢我們很想知道就是說那非人為的因素是哪幾種這些希望可以在這個到時候報告裡面提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
27412.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
27435.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
所以我們的這個凍結金額因為前面也都已經有了我們就併到前面啦對併併到前面把你要求說明的對我們直接併到前面就好了好不好好166案我們原諒這個案我們就同意照列但是請陸軍務必他這個他剛才曲曉鑫委員所垂詢的部分列入到書面你前面的書面要把它涵蓋因為他的目的是要了解你處理的狀況好不好謝謝委員來167到168案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
27441.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
27469.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
第167、168案為林玉君等兩位委員針對違行無人機預算案指導167案林玉君委員關心無人機的抗干擾以及避障能力168案蠻軍委員關心本案的採購執行現況以上兩案已經向委員說明建請同意第67案免於凍結第168案建請同意下修凍結金額為原編預算的十分之一也就是十萬元進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
27470.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
27470.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
27491.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
27491.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
27514.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
27532.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
那可是問題是那我的話我前面那個166那我前面我沒有提無人機的啊就變成是說我說我個人沒有提案無人機那我照列之後就那把166案併入到對我不在意多少錢啦148到153但是我要留一個記錄啊我來講把166案我們更改一下決議徐孝興委員的166案併到哪裡148到153148到153併案處理我們預算書都不動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
27543.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
27554.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
但是說明請涵蓋這個內容那167、168有關微型無人機的研發的狀況請載入前面併入哪個案你們要併入前面哪個案一樣嗎167跟168微型的前面沒有不是我知道沒有就是你前面有無人機的部分就併入這個併入剛剛這個1 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
27568.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
27574.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
148到158以及徐委員的剛剛的166來167跟168並入到148到158預算是不變148到153然後你們在說明的時候要涵蓋到研發的狀況那研製不成外購的可能相關你把它寫清楚好不好是謝謝委員那167、168我們在這裡就並入前面那邊處理了是好來169到169案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
27598.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
27604.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
169改組決議169改組決議好謝謝謝謝委員來170案170案委員馬文君委員針對陸軍作戰資源服務系統建制案提案指導委員關心整個的建案規劃那本案原系統是在本案已向委員說明建警同意下修凍結數 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
27626.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
27631.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
委員的提案是（他的提案才10萬（你在下修沒有366,000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
27634.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
27640.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
三十六萬六千好像很少可是這個案子他全案是六億一千八百零九萬就這個三十六萬過了以後他就是六億一千八百零九萬所以我們希望他可以審慎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
27662.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
27669.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
他說大概的內容有說明就是陸軍營區光纖取代傳統電纜這個部分如果是比較老舊當然你用現在的光纖去取代這個我們沒有意見太幻式服器、資安防護、買授權還有網路設備換780台等等大概有這些說明可是我們凍結的原因很重要的一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
27688.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
27693.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
如果你是非常重要因為它的執行年度是114到118如果它非常的重要你一整年就只做36萬6千的這樣的工作要告訴我們說這個非常重要然後後面你的期程要三年要做很多的工程我們覺得這個好像有意義所以這個部分我們全動希望它可以把它提出比較具體完整的說明以後不要說前面36萬後面6億 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
27717.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
27721.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
馬委員的關心我覺得有點道理就是說你這樣子6億那你明年一整年只花36萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
27744.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
27769.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
明年主要是針對我們的招標作業以及我們後續要做一個先期的規劃以及現刊讓這些廠商針對我們的需求能夠去做一個完整的幫我們做一個規劃讓我們後續的案子在執行上能夠可以更符合我們的需求我們的整個案子基本上會在115到117年 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
27770.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
27787.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
對啦不是不是你廠商他去現勘或什麼當他標到的時候他去現勘或什麼他都要花錢了所以其實我就說你編的這個預算其實是不合理的而且你四年你後面的三年要做這麼多的工作照你的案通過啦好不好凍結十萬嘛你提案是凍結十萬啦確實啦我沒看錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
27789.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
27794.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
這171案．馬文君委員提案通過那書面報告的時候請說明一下你這到底要怎麼去執行好不好列清楚書面報告後使得動之再來是171案主席阿津同意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
27818.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
27818.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
請提案委員OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
27840.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
27841.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
凍結100萬171案對171這個部分我們凍結的原因就是剛剛有講啦因為我們又要買第二次的救護車我們的駕駛人呢我們現在兵越來越少我們的在 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
27857.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
27858.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
27880.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
27880.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
（處理（ |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
27898.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
27917.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
172案請說明172案為陳冠廷委員針對採購及外購軍品作業費科目提案指導委員關心的是有關於預算編列的問題這個案子因為它的屬性不一樣已經向委員報告說明建請同意下修凍結金額為50萬元並提出書面報告敬請指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
27921.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
27922.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
173案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
27947.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
27959.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
174案為馬雲軍委員針對主副使與口糧科目的預算提案指導委員關心預算編列以及新式加熱式參核的執行規劃本案已向委員說明建請同意下修凍結金額為500萬元提出順便報告後使動之進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
27964.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
27967.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
這個部分我們特別要說明是因為剛開始我們的加熱餐盒是工研院研發出來的其實還蠻實用的而且有需求可是現在我們到那個便利超商其實都有這種加熱餐盒所以他的技術已經很普遍了可是他的金額成本還是很高就是50到12我想這個是不是可以跟廠商應該用越久量越大應該要降下來因為我們的量又是非常大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
27993.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
28011.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
這是一個那現在還有一個就是說它所謂光是這一個就是加熱餐盒它量這麼大它還要260塊到280塊其中我們覺得好像有點不合理的是那個配送它居然要50到55塊比那個剛剛那個技術還要高配送給我們的是寫錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
28018.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
28045.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
對阿,他的金額很高我跟委員報告一下目前國軍的交易室餐盒跟市售的這個所謂的像那個海底撈那一種他的差別第一個國軍的內容物都比外面賣的還要多份量多例如說你為什麼不會帶幾盒來可以,我們的滷蛋是兩顆不會做生意的帶幾盒來我看到沈博洋委員肚子都餓了第二個因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
28048.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
28069.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
另外我們的配貨運送因為我們量大我們這邊因為預算書你們應該有溝通過這一部分我贊成馬委員提的其實有些你看起來是在擋預算其實是讓你們當助力你要跟廠商談判就是說我量那麼大而且國軍用你等於幫你品牌加分你還一件一件算而且你的運費50塊運費太高 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
28071.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
28071.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
173案凍結500萬書面報告經同意後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
28087.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
28112.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
蘇緣報告的內容請寫出你們努力的作為好來接下來174案請說明174案委員馬雲君委員針對南湖彈庫興建工程提案之道委員關心的是工程的規劃以及進度那本案已經向委員說明建請同意下修凍結金額500萬元提出蘇緣報告後使動之敬請之道好來馬委員OK了 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
28114.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
28116.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
174案凍結500萬書面報告後,您要不要經同意? |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
28138.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
28160.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
經同意使得動之那我們現在從疫情前到現在我們終於恢復了有下午可以有小點心給各位大家就享用吧這個國會處好不好那個立法院我們再跟韓院長建議以前真的是有啦但是好像是因為疫情那時候是因為疫情停的 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
28162.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
28163.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
175-177案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
28177.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
28194.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
175到177案為林玉君等三位委員針對戰甲車掩體興建工程的第一階段的提案指導那175案為林玉君委員關心的是工程預算大幅調整那166、167案為馬雲君委員及徐曉勳委員關心工程規劃進度那這邊報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
28200.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
28206.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
在111到112年的預算數為1756萬元原為執行專管設計、建造以及統包設計因為工程費跟物價的波動修訂可憑所以在111到112年僅資用了專管理評估的與設計費427萬元剩下的1300餘萬元就辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
28231.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
28253.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
設計及建造費研製114年來執行114年編列規劃執行本案所需的公共建設及設施目前克正執行統包工程的招標公告預計在114年的1月可以開標管制於在115年的8月完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
28254.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
28276.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
那以上的三案已向委員說明或提供完整的資料那考量案內的預算為辦理戰甲車岩體興建工程的必須的經費建議同意並按凍結一千萬元那也針對許委員的專案報告建請改列為提出書面報告後時的動之敬請指導來各位委員會議見來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
28279.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
28304.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
這個案子是戰甲車掩體就是要給M1A2戰車用的可是現在好像改了它原來的期程是111年到114年等於明年要完工可是現在又多延了一年到115年而且它比較離譜的是它原來是有三處地方有一個要在那個大崗營區淡水營區還有北五堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
28305.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
28318.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
他不但延了一年他現在把它變成兩處本來應該要執行三處現在變成兩處只剩下大崗跟淡水那剩下這兩處以外他原來的金額是9億177萬現在金額變成17億他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
28324.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
28325.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
經費暴增（原來從49座減到剩下34座（ |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
28344.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
28350.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
如果說用其他的那些理由來說 我覺得都講不過去啊因為第一件事情是你們剛剛這個馬委員已經講了你從這個9億然後變到17億 你說是因為物價上漲可是其實你這樣子是跳了一整倍喔這是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
28364.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
28392.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
第二件事情是呢因為你也延後了嘛那延後之後呢我我們預計未來的物價只會更上漲而已所以你現在你編的現在目前這個預算那你你之後是不是會變更高我這個我是有非常大的疑慮的而且呢我們整個我們從現在開始我們在看175案嘛對不對我們往後的這所有的工程一直到我看到大概到196案裡面全部都是這些工程延宕的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
28393.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
28407.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
所以他是一個整體性的問題我對於到時候我們等一下怎麼去凍結我一點意見都沒有可是我覺得你們在整個營造這件事情上面缺失非常的大你這整個營造包含這個我們現在在講的MIA2本來是要這樣做結果後來又改然後呢你的這個金額當初設定也都不對然後你們現在目前我們現在在審查的這一大一大堆到196吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
28419.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
28437.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
19...到195都沒有去考慮到你們現在你說的是未來要做然後接下來的整體的營造上漲的問題因為我之前是市議員所以我每年省都追加預算而且追加很高所以我可以理解預算會往上但是呢你看你到從9到17億這樣我們就沒辦法接受然後我們的時間又往後挪的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
28442.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
28458.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
明年你可能又告訴我說預算又不夠了每年這樣子我覺得我們審查預算就會很難接受所以我覺得這是一個整個要通盤考量的事情這剛才我有建議部長這個部分要研究了其實你們大概有幾個委員一個是其實點你們都估低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
28460.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
28489.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
你們常常起死點的概顧就低了然後預算過了之後呢發包不出去就一直拖拖拖拖然後呢物調費就最後調到23%就往上走了你們這個是減量發包嘛原來要三處改兩處嘛所以未來還要再追一處回來這是這是然後再來像坑子口那個訊廠要達到我們M1A2真正完整功能其實還有四個工項還沒有都還沒有編預算所以你們事實上一開始編是把它壓低 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
28489.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
28514.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
所以後面就會產生這個對那後面再追回來就會面對委員問你這個問題你們在編列預算的時候一開始因為我們以前是議會一開始就不應該要壓低我覺得呢今天我是站在國防部的角度來說在從國防部的角度來說你們用壓低的方式去那你覺得你第一關過了結果你會每年未來都受到大家的抨擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
28515.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
28526.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
所以這個問題請部裡面去通盤來研究因為不是只有這個工程你們本來就應該要加上物條在你的這個合約我們讓林益君委員先表達好不好 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
28528.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
28533.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
其實我的175案和184案是一樣的因為目前戰車都已經到台灣了但是我們的戰甲車掩體現在好像還沒有整件完成目前國防部要如何存放還有到底何時可以完成還有現在新式的戰車然後我們現在的訓場有適合停放嗎這樣如何滿足未來訓練實際的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
28552.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
28579.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
請陸軍就剛才的問題同意回答有關於林委員關切這個問題我們完成過詳實的規劃也就是說在部分的確有些在掩體沒有完成的情況下那對於這個戰車的一個疏散跟存放我們都有相關的捧場跟處所那後續當然還是會依據他的需求也就是這個作戰的抗炸的時序來建置 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
28581.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
28603.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
馬委員不好意思再補充如果這樣聽起來現在有地方放那好像也不需要蓋了反正也有反正你也是可以用你應該要準備車旁邊跟固定的車孔差別有的現在也是做車旁邊這不是你們可是有一些好像還是這樣做包括放無人機的 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
28605.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
28610.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
我們的MQ9他就是放在那個盆子裡面而已這個部分我覺得要檢討可是剛剛趙偉有特別提到說他們低估其實好像也不是因為專管公司他都已經看過他也估計過也是他設計的在這個部分所有的好像專管公司晚以後統包到後面才會出現問題我們不知道是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
28632.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
28653.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
而且還每一個那已經出這麼多的問題結果繞來繞去都還是這些這些廠商或這些對象我對這些PCM我個人是打一個問號所以他主要不是因為因為原來國防部就低估而是你專管公司怎麼會差那麼多這我覺得這是要通過這些意見你們要聽進去那剛才預算數那個陸軍建議是1000萬那各位如果沒意見我來處理沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
28661.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
28670.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
好,我們以徐曉清委員為主提案並案凍結一千萬元書面報告經同意後,使得凍支好,接下來處理178案 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
28674.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
28693.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
第178案為馬雲軍委員關心陸軍官校的改善教育設施的工程委員關心整個工程的規劃本案已經向委員說明委員在前面的提案也做了非常專業的指導建請同意名語凍結進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
28695.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
28714.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
同意照列我們希望學校的軟硬體設施可以多多重視同意照列學校的設施要加油不要每次把學校放在最後面好接下來第179案請說明這也不用說明了因為我剛剛已經都說明了不要再浪費大家時間改組決議謝謝好謝謝委員179案改組決議180案到181案歡迎大家效法趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
28724.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
28746.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
第180及181案委員黃仁等兩位委員（針對長安營區訓場整建工程提案指導（黃仁及馬雲軍委員關心本案的工程進度（以上兩案已經向委員說明（建請同意併案凍結五百萬元（提出書面報告（後時的動資敬請指導來黃仁委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
28747.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
28747.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
182、183、185請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
28776.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
28787.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
182、183、185為黃仁等三位委員針對坑澤口訓場的整件工程提案指導委員也是關心本案的工程進度以上三案已經向委員說明建請同意併案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
28790.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
28805.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
兩千萬元提出書面報告時的動資進行委員制我先詢問一下你們在鏗子口的訓場能不能執行MMA2很重要跟現在跟上兩代差異最大就是假看好叫A看BC打就這種這個訓場在那邊能不能執行這樣的訓練可以可以嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
28810.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
28829.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
你們要用哪個場地?你那個場地我去看了好多次您說坑子口就是就戰車現在MIA2有一個跟以前不同世代的差異就是有點像F35就是我這台車看見我同時我就可以傳訊鏈接到其他車子可以用最適當的位置去打你們這個坑子口可以用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
28830.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
28831.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
其他委員有沒有詢問的部分? |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
28861.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
28880.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
這個就是182到185我是坑子口的部分因為他原來編列的預算他把它用了很大一部分放在那個水土保持工程甚至高達3億所以他被影響到其他的這些原來應該有的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
28884.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
28886.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
有條路有意見我上次印象不是我沒有去看過你那個路因為我們南投其實做水土保持做很多你應該做的我們不反對本來就應該要把它做好你也不可以影響到周邊的環境還有說所有的住戶可是它有比如說設計很多的制洪池啊什麼的不是你在我覺得好像通風把錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
28908.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
28909.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
河口的問題我們有到現場去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
28931.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
28933.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
委員會主席馬文進委員的立場來你們協調的預算處怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
28961.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
28962.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
現在處理186187請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
28992.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
29012.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
第186至187案為徐曉鑫等兩位委員針對戰場抗壓新建工程提案指導以上兩案已經向委員說明或提供完整資料考量案內的預算為之應訓場新建工程推動的必要建請同意並按凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
29014.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
29032.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
這裏面也是以187案馬文君委員提案的這個凍結數是以原預算編列的十分之一也就是3160萬元並提出順便報告後時的凍資敬請指導以馬文君委員的提案為主提案並案處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
29034.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
29045.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
但是那個趙偉這邊要特別講一下就是他們你們要注意一下因為這個戰場抗壓管新建工程我本來是沒有要列的但是在過程當中就發現這個有綁標的疑慮那比方說他們對於一些這個所謂的他們要買的VR設備等等的都寫到那個細到只有一家廠商能夠做出來的這種等級已經改了已經他們調整了 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
29059.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
29060.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
施行委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
29079.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
29100.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
只有很少數的人可以做希望提醒一下這件事情對國防部的重要性這應該除了監督該查就查但是我這個案子我們先處理預算數我看我們病案凍結3000萬整數3000萬以馬文君委員的提案為主題案書面報告經同意後使得凍支抗壓管那時候陸軍參謀長張仁勛我們一起去看的對在北側我們兩個去看的 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
29107.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
29108.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
188案為馬雲俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
29126.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
29137.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
針對和理冒險場新興工程提案指導委員關心的是工程進度本案同意依委員提案指導凍結500萬元進行指導188案凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍失189案到190案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
29148.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
29163.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
189190案為馬文君等兩位委員（針對花防部復興營區訓場新建工程提案指導（馬文君及徐曉新兩位委員關心的是（工程進度還有相關的缺工（工程進度的問題（ |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
29164.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
29185.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
本案因為是在花蓮地區（它的一個地震因素導致缺工和地主偏遠以及物價上漲（兩案已經向委員提供完整資料及說明（考案案內的預算為執行訓場信任工程的必要經費（建請同意凍結500萬元（提出書面報告後（使得凍資進行指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
29187.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
29187.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
馬衛媛 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
29207.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
29207.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
徐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
29228.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
29234.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
你們回覆的部分說有三個理由說說因為有流標招標兩次都沒有廠商投標對就沒有廠商投標就是流標我們前面幾個剛剛在談的都是沒有特別流標情況而是說預算什麼增加等等我就不講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
29247.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
29267.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
但是這一個花房那它有流標的狀況而且那你們給我們的回覆很清楚就有寫到說地震然後偏遠運輸困難然後物價上漲居高不下的這三個因素但目前沒有辦法看到你們去解決這三個流標因素的原因然後那你們要編列這樣子的一個預算那 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
29268.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
29287.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
我們就會覺得說你這樣子一直留標一直留標一直留標你沒有給我一個解決的方案就跟先前是不一樣的先前我們討論的都是你們已經整理好了只是說你預算需要但是你這個花房是你根本沒有辦法把現在的因素告訴我們的解決方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
29288.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
29299.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
所以我對於等一下我們怎麼處理這個預算的凍結數額我沒有意見但是你們在沒有解決你自己提出的評估原因的前提之下那你就說你們要繼續蓋那我覺得這是一個非常不理性的行為以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
29304.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
29312.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
主席不好意思我再補充會有這麼多的這樣的樣態都不同的可是都是建築硬體建築發生這樣的問題他流標也許在裡面會有什麼樣特殊的狀況是讓其他人沒有辦法標 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
29322.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
29339 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
這個才是應該要去檢視的我覺得不會全台灣所有的公共工程大家都可以順順利利只有我們國防部的有問題所以他到底是有什麼東西是讓人家沒有辦法標這個可能也要去考慮189190我們凍結500萬書面報告經同意後使得動之但提醒國防部尤其陸軍這邊如果PCM原始寫的項目一直留標 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
29349.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
29376.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
那他會不會是估算的時候就有問題然後流標之後你不追加你讓他減相減量你將來還是要追回來啊還是要追回來然後流標延宕又造成誤調又要漲價又要追加預算然後呢最後標出去了又減相減量後續還要追我們的工程一直在重複這個戲碼所以我真的請顧部長去找出那個原始去算出那個多少項目要多少錢的那個那個機制到底在哪裡因為從那邊就錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
29378.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
29399.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
每次從那邊錯然後就標不出去標不出去就減相減量然後就已經拖過兩年三年然後物價就調整一年7%就好你看這樣漲多少然後最後再回頭追加這個各個訓場營區基地都有看到這個情形可能那個原始去寫這個案子的可能要把它列入我們的說明裡面好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
29402.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
29424.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
以徐曉清委員當主案書面報告經同意後時的動資凍結500萬好再來191案請說明第191案為馬雲軍委員針對手榴彈實彈投擲暨反裝甲涉及訓場興建工程案委員關心的是工程執行的規劃本案已向委員說明建請同意下修凍結金額為500萬元提出書面報告後時的動資敬請指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
29431.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
29444.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
不過因為因為這個都是這是新的嗎這其實也是訓場工程對他訓場因為第一他全案是一億兩千多萬那他後面寫是 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
29448.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
29449.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
全案是1億2857萬他現在已經有點慢了可是我們現在覺得說是不是要說明清楚的第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
29467.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
29485.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
當時這是為了一年期的義務役那時候都說沒問題我們訓練場地都準備好了可是現在還是都在用簡易式當然這個就是因為這個還沒有完工的原因或者現在才在執行的過程當中不過他比較特別的是他在八軍團是114年2月 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
29488.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
29489.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
29513.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
29529.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
明年3月是時軍團的專管我不知道為什麼要把它拆成這樣子那這個部分可能也要講清楚然後不要因為又有這些延伸的問題造成我們這個要使用的時候又延宕好,五百萬這個191案凍結五百萬書面報告後使得凍支192案請說明這也是一樣嘛這工程的規劃對,它是先規來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
29539.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
29552.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
這個看到是591萬對不對可是這個預估是19億所以他這個是清兵器的靶場興建工程因為我們看到前面這麼多的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
29554.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
29554.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
（處理（三天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
29574.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
29578.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
那以前是確定要蓋了你才去編這個相關的這些規劃先起規劃費嘛那你現在先編了先起規劃費到時候他規劃出來然後把你設計好了等到你真的要蓋的時候可能又過了三年五年那到時候又整個又長高了所以好像這個又跟我們現在的做法又不太一樣也要說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
29601.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
29605.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
193-194案為徐巧興等兩位委員針對城鎮站及河山化訓場新建工程先期規劃案提案指導以上兩案以 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
29626.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
29641.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
向委員提供資料考量案內預算為之應訓場興建所必須建請同意並按凍結一百萬元（並提出書面報告（使得凍值盡情遲到最後一言 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
29642.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
29647.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
你看這件事情就非常可笑我作為立法委員我應該是要負責來刪減預算的可是你看你給我們的回覆114年度你們要做前期規劃對不對這個我跟部長講一下你看我們講了這麼多的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
29657.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
29671.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
你要做前期規劃然後呢你要在114年3月前完成決標然後呢要執行什麼地形測量土壤鑽探土地間界可信性評估報告招標文件整體作業你們蓋在哪裡啊你們蓋在這個我看一下齁蓋在反正好幾個營區嘛好幾個營區喔你總共挖新建多少你講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
29684.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
29690.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
就是你這個前期計劃就針對我們的11個星期11個嘛那你去想喔你前期的預算你去編692萬然後你要做我剛剛講的那些事情然後呢你有11個地方有可能嗎有可能嗎就是我可以改組決定沒有問題但我很想要告訴你們一件事情是說我光看都知道這不可能做到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
29712.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
29712.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
11個單位有4對阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
29728.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
29734.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
11個新訓旅然後7處總共是4座核生化跟7座城鎮站對嘛那好你光是你要請外面的公司然後呢來跟你投標然後來做這些什麼什麼土地鑑定啊什麼什麼各種作業你人家看到692萬他會想要來標嗎我很懷疑耶我對於現在台灣的物價來說很懷疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
29753.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
29757.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
那好啦那我們反正就又再凍結一百萬然後明年的時候又來又這個不夠然後又增加又減少又增加又減少這不是永遠無限巡迴嗎你在本委會待的夠久你一定會一直在看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
29768.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
29776.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
對阿沒有我不用在博文會應該夠久我在市議會的時候就已經每天都在罵這個事情了所以我的意思是說你前面的已經很誇張但你這個是才剛開始喔所以你的先期規劃就已經出問題了你覺得後面會順利到哪裡去嗎這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
29784.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
29796.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
因為我們這個案我們其實同樣的事情講了很多啦我相信意見也都給部長做參考了那193、194這是先期規劃案因為他這個是新的啦所以我們希望說他到底要做什麼樣的訓練他的訓場是怎麼樣和聲化的訓場又是怎麼樣所以這個部分其實應該在剛要做的時候也要比較詳實的去做說明跟報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
29812.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
29832.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
這個案子是新的我們期待陸軍跟國防部在這個新的案子的工程讓我們看到如期如質耳目一新的做法那剛才我聽到徐小新委員說他同意該組決議都沒關係因為目的其實我們前面審到現在都一樣的東西都類似的對我知道我說現在這樣子如果說以凍結一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
29834.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
29841.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
書面報告讓我們看一下改進的方案你今天過了其實明年我們還是會遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
29841.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
29844.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
193、194以馬文君委員的案子為主提案並案凍結100萬書面報告後使得凍資195萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
29869.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
29881.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
195案為馬雲軍委員針對金湯營區後備訓場整建掀起規劃案提案指導委員關心工程執行的規劃本案已向委員說明建請同意下修凍結金額為500萬元提出書面報告後時的凍資敬請指導來預算書有沒有問題來請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
29887.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
29889.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
同意下修動結束不過我們剛開始我們省就是對於有意見的部分其實都是因為他的工程延宕延期或者他減項減量可是我們看到後面的這幾案都剛要執行他都先做先期規劃所以其實剛開始編的預算其實都不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
29911.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
29935.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
先期規劃也會有一個問題像我們這個案子他編的是3679明年是3000多萬可是他全案預估的工程經費也是19億所以他的工程經費還是非常高那你先期規劃到底要規劃什麼因為我們後面這幾案好像看起來都這樣我們看到這個部分如果你現在100 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
29937.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
29965.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
今趟營區是比較舊的照理說也是要可是我們要說的是如果你做先期規劃你114年做完讓你最順利好了明年就把它做完結果你117年送院然後可能真正要建案的時候也到118年了對你就又是4年以後那是不是這樣是符合我們的需要能不能即使達到這樣的一個目標需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
29966.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
29967.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
196案為馬雲軍委員關切的是展覽工夫車輛籌補的現況與後續規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
29987.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
29997.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
本案已向委員說明,建議同意下修凍結金額緣編預算的十分之一,也就是652萬元提出書面報告後,使得凍資進行支導來,那個委員會意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
30000.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
30003.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
這個部分我們簡單說一下這個就針對我們去採購的部分我覺得這個是問題還蠻大的因為當時我們可能規劃你是看哪些單位他的需求他可能要什麼2.5或2.0或1.8的1.6的轎車或者8人座的客貨車或者中客車、大客車1.75噸的客貨車等等他去做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
30027.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
30032.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
我這個單位假設我需要的我可能要載人要上課或學校的部分假設我需要的可能是中客車或搭客車結果因為你在採購的時候你錢不夠因為剛開始他們可能編有問題編得有些太便宜所以也買不到結果你在招標的時候大家需要的沒有結果我本來需要搭客車、搭貨車他給你小轎車那你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
30057.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
30058.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
196案凍結650萬書面報告後時的凍資再來陸軍的最後一趴197案到201案環保設施請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
30086.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
30092.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
196（跟證197-201案違蠻軍等兩位委員（針對環保設施的維護（的科目預算提案指導等下我們先（顧部長要去洗手間沒關係（另外我們剛才講說我們要審查到空軍玩具（各位委員們的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
30114.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
30130.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
197、198、199 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
30130.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
30131.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
198到兩棟腰 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
30159.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
30160.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
這三個案子我們同意並動500萬不過其中有一個比較大的問題我們覺得也非常不合理就是在噪音噪音補助的這個委託案 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
30182.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
30202.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
我相信稍微你那裡也有我也在演我那裡特別多我有好幾個機場在我的選區啊不過你還在撐幾百年欸加上三千個啊所以我很可憐的啊對不是都一致的嗎我有戰鬥機有直升機我們現在要講的是這個委外的費用我覺得是很不合理我們所有的對我們所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
30207.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
30207.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
30228.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
30228.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
委員（ |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
30250.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
30268.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
我們有分成按每戶戶籍人口的現金還有一種是里內建設的費用有兩種那你們委託到底是哪一種的作業我都認為應該結合區公所、里幹事、里林長一起來處理所以這個案子我贊成這個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
30270.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
30287.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
這邊也表達一下我這邊有意見就是說松山機場這裡先前我是去交通部那邊質詢但是呢這個也是一樣啊我們除了剛才這個趙薇講到之外還有你們發下去的方式就是他錢會最後發不下去你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
30288.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
30308.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
有錢還發不下去啊對對對因為他有他發錢是有公事的他發錢按照那個公…松山是不是有民航局的費用他有個起降費其實松山跟桃園比我們那裡好太多了我們那裡很小那他發下去呢要都發完呢要兩百年我當時在那個你那個是做冷氣啦不是做冷氣什麼冷氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
30309.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
30312.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
我看這樣子因為每個機場不一樣對每個機場不一樣所以我在講說像我們松山那邊可能會比較小這個我們把這案子做的處理因為我們像歸仁機場是因為從來沒有申請過裝冷氣所以他們就是發現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
30332.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
30359.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
那像一聯隊、台南空軍基地或其他的基地他們會把民國92年以前的房子可以申請裝冷器民國92年以後搬來的不好意思都沒有因為你明知而來的那你加桃園機場、松山機場、CCK有民航還有民航起降費那又另外一筆所以它這有點混亂但是我們剛才跟馬文靜在講的這個事情就是說當你在執行這個的時候有分成里長要辦活動的補助那有一筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
30360.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
30387.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
包括設施還有一筆是受噪音影響那個不是每個機場都有有的機場完全沒有申請冷卻了他才有現金補助那這個作業上坦白講我如果你中我還要替你搬這個我們那個發大概比例都100%因為他每一年發那個居民會認為是他爭取的所以我才會建議空軍或者是陸航這邊要結合地方民政單位去做處理你可以節省一些公帑 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
30388.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
30414.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
我們想要再爭取一下就是我松山機場這邊可能因為它民用軍用都有所以呢我們去算過這個機場的回饋金啊是用這個每架飛機17塊錢乘以最大起飛重量每千公斤加95塊民航對民航的嘛那這整個東西它發就是因為我們的特色是因為民航跟這個軍的都有它混在一起那你們混在一起怎麼弄 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
30416.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
30428.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
我們民航沒錢是不是所以因為我們混在一起的關係實際發的戶數呢這樣好不好我們請他專案把這個說明清楚就是說因為我沒有我特別講的原因是因為我並沒有提這個案子所以是不是這個案子也來跟我們說明一下那個197到201案我們這個部分我再補充一下好不好因為不然大家我想會以為我們是凍結什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
30442.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
30446.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
我剛剛有提到就是現金的部分我講的是現金的部分因為它是450、500、600那我們假設450的好了你如果一家六口你領到2700塊可是執行這個業務的你一家六口我領到1200塊我沒有我只是辦這個業務喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
30460.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
30463.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
所以空軍光是執行這個委託的業務他有1700多萬就是給那個公司他辦他可以執行一年本來我們想說那你如果在一個月之內就是把可以把這個補助金通通交給這些受影響的住戶那可能因為這樣的考量那不是他的其中一年（好像不是這個現金（另外（裝冷氣的也有（沒有沒有現金（是裝冷氣的喔（我現在講現金啦對那你跟我講的什麼是裝冷氣也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
30486.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
30487.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
我們現在處理的並沒有影響到任何回饋民眾的費用我們現在處理的是作業的委外的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
30509.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
30528.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
到底該不該委外的計算方式因為剛才經過溝通協調並按凍結500萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支書面報告內容請列出你們委外到底要他做什麼事情成本怎麼計算的或者說你們這個委外的內容到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
30529.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
30554.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
有一個精進的做法就是說如果你們結合區公所、里長、林長你像那個六合局、河川局他們在那個防汛道路在整理那個雜草以前都委外來弄那居民都會說這個草又長大了又怎麼樣子後來他做一個很聰明的方法乾脆委託里長跟志工去把費用給他那草長長的要找誰住在那邊的人他反而達到效果自己QC自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
30558.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
30578.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
反而更省那我的意思是說你們精進作為提出一個就是說詢問一下嘛因為那幾個區公所而已啦公所的里林長願意配合我們濁雨補助也許不用那麼大金額效果更好還有雙重效果一個是發的效果第二個你們木林的效果會更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
30579.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
30603.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
他等於成為你工作團隊的一份子等於你們陣戰體系的一份子去思考看看好不好所以這個併案我們以陳冠廷委員的案子為主題案併案凍結500萬書面報告金同佑使得凍之書面報告內容請詳列你們的做法還有精進的一些策進的作為好我們陸軍到這裡除了移到第二輪的以外呢第一輪的已經審查完略我們接下來進行海軍來換海軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
30619.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
30624.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
邱參謀長,看會不會比陳參謀長效率好一點?效率好不見得是好事,可能都到二輪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
30635.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
30637.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
好 我們來處理202案跟203案的並案那個海軍請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
30644.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
30658.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
第202到203是海軍司令部的情報跟測量提案委員馬文君委員已到委辦室完整的說明同意併案凍結50萬元並向提出書面報告後指的動機請委員知道馬委員沒有意見我們就這樣子202、203併案凍結50萬元書面報告後指的動機 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
30672.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
30690.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
主案就用202案202案再來204案請說明204案一樣是法治及法務的作業提案委員一樣是徐曉鑫委員內容提及法治教育跟性品的問題以提供書面資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
30691.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
30703.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
後面會依照委員的指導加強各種教育與官兵相關的法系教育我們會建議依委員提案凍結54萬2千提出書面報告時的通知請委員指導54萬2千是20%嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
30708.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
30720.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
我其實可以更少欸我們直接10%就好了好不好10%就好了啦他要你把事情做好因為我是要你把事情做好不是要砍你的錢好不好但是我要講一下你們給我的這個回覆裡面啊就講說什麼呢你們要這個持續運用賴群組宣導性騷擾啊什麼之類的我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
30728.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
30742.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
這個到底呢這個到底有沒有用然後你給我說法際教育說有4萬多人參加這到底有沒有用我們還要再看看但是我覺得呢給你們一些機會不要凍結你們這個錢那就是加油我們現在大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
30743.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
30764.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
哈?你要照片?沒有沒有我就是10%他剛剛算的是20嘛對不對10%好了啦我27萬了對啊就變更少嘛那你那個因為最近很多霸凌啊性騷啊等等大家很在意所以我還是小幅度的凍結那就是讓大家呢有一個警示效果但是呢比你們提供的數字再少這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
30768.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
30791.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
204案凍結27萬書面報告後使得凍支205案是海軍的採購及外購作業費提案委員為薛曉勳委員那主要是運費的編列那所有的我們對外採購其實專案之外其實所有的運費都是另外編列要特別向委員來說明那這個案子的話請委員同意預算照列免於凍結請委員知道來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
30794.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
30797.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
你那個是沒電的啦你那個沒電的 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
30812.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
30835.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
這個部分呢就是我們在採購軍品的品項運費計算裡面那我們有很多是跨軍種的採購嘛那有那現在編列的運費坦白說我看8000多萬蠻多的那所以我們本來是覺得說呢你會不會有重複或是編列的疑慮比方說像啊像我問一下你們魚叉飛彈跟刺針飛彈的在美運費是不是算在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
30836.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
30866.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
206-207 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
30868.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
30883.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
206-207是死證的部分提案委員為林儲英委員及薛曉勳委員均為預算一般世衛辨列的部分以向委員辦公室提供說明資料及完整的資訊建議併案凍結55萬8千並向外委會提出說明報告後適格通知請委員指導提案委員206-207 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
30894.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
30916.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
我對於這個數字我是可以接受但是我先讓你們知道一下我關注的是什麼部分第一個是有關於對史的部分那麼我其實是蠻懷疑就是在製作這樣的對史的這種所謂用文字然後印製書面資料的部分有沒有辦法可以提升減少這個所謂文宣的印製輸出的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
30917.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
30942.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
再來就是說其實除了軍券或是所謂的軍中弟兄之外有沒有可能對一般民眾來開放否則你們花五百多萬然後去建立這樣的一個對使的相關的內容其實我覺得一定都是使用率是不高的所以希望你們在書面報告當中能夠展明這個部分對一般民眾開放對使館等等的活化使用的部分好不好是薛委員好來薛委員那我這裡呢我對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
30945.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
30969.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
凍結啊我其實我覺得我還是要凍結但我可以凍結很少讓你們都可以運作沒有問題原因是因為我想說一下你們給我們的這個回應裡面寫說呢好你們編的557萬嘛然後保存當時嘛我非常贊同然後其中印製費用是83萬然後我也覺得OK但是各單位使極限在以採 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
30970.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
30982.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
以電子燒錄光碟為主、紙本為輔的方式我現在不知道還有誰在用電子光碟不是,現在買不到光碟機對啊我沒有光碟機我要怎麼看這些東西啊所以我對這幾個字我非常的驚訝你已經點出了盲腸就是寫的人大概是上個世代的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
30989.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
31017.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
我還好沒看到3.5詞片不然我是不知道怎麼辦所以那個電子光碟的錢啊你告訴我一下這個我呢基本上我要把電子就是我跟你講我要把電子光碟的錢刪除因為我本來寫說我們讓他去找到一個更好的方法好不好就是我跟你講我這個是這樣子我沒有要凍結你但是我就是要把電子光碟的錢刪掉所以我不管他是多少你告訴我10萬也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
31019.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
31047.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
但請你不要製作電子光碟因為我們現在沒有光碟機好不好這個我覺得徐委員我這樣子好不好我們206、207的提案我們以林楚瑩委員的提案為主題案並按凍結55萬書面報告後使得凍支但是加注意點你們製作對時的載具不管是紙本或者你寫的光碟請與時俱進那我們委員會決議不讓你用光碟 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
31048.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
31052.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
208案請說明208案為計劃管理作業提案委員馬文俊委員提案內容是以那個林柱英 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
31079.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
31079.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
208案不予處理209-210案 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
31096.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
31122.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
209到210是這個行政事務費裡面的一個預算編列提案委員是徐曉勳委員是針對行政事務費編列及這個信憑案件的那這些部分我們也會按照委員的指導來強化各單位的這個處理流程建請委員這個同意預算照列免於三組或綜結這個照列那拜託信憑、信騷、那個霸凌都一定要注意209案、213案同意照列211案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
31124.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
31134.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
211案為案關作業提問委員．馬文君委員為硬體設備的新增需求的以下一致為辦是提供說明或委員同意預算照列免於三決動處請委員指導馬文君OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
31137.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
31144.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
對 這個部分我們同意照列可是因為公文系統軟體的換裝這個是新增38萬經費不多可是部本部未來其實可能也會有二代公文的系統的換裝案那它的金額可能也高達十幾億不曉得後面國防部的時候還會討論不過我們在這裡是主要是先提醒如果說國防部都要做了那現在各軍也都花錢要針對公文系統去更新乾脆一併 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
31167.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
31170.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
211案同意照列但是請軍總跟國防部在公文系統的更新上要有個通盤的考量212到213案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
31192.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
31199.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
212-213為政戰綜合費的一個費用提案委員是馬雲軍委員及徐曉勳委員主要是敏感度訓練及心腹機制的已完成說明及資料整備建行委員同意併案凍結15萬元並向外委會提出市面報告時的凍值我先講一下好不好我這裡可以改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
31213.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
31218.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
那原因是因為你們要謝謝這個政戰局因為我們這裡當時提案是因為新府的成效不彰當我們在這個會期裡面有非常非常多針對這部分的檢討但是呢給大家看一下這個優秀的例子就是政戰局他們的這整個新府的報告他們重新編列跟整理過後其實是相當就是相當認真在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
31235.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
31236.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
馬慧蓮15萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
31251.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
31255.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
我想可能也幫我們的一些新府官幫他們講話因為其實在現階段不管是國軍的整體的業務量也好或者他現在必須要面臨的問題雖然自產的這些事件其實一直頻傳可是我想這個問題也不是都是新府官的問題而已因為他發生的因素非常多不管是經濟、感情、制度或者是受到什麼其他的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
31280.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
31284.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
這些資產如果說我們要編錢讓這些人員去上課然後還要去講習搞到最後壓力最大的是這些新輔官要被新輔的可能是他們所以我想這個部分一出事不要全部都可能甩鍋給他們可是政戰局在心理輔導的部分因為主要分三級嘛你有正常關愛還有特別加強怎麼樣再去做一個更妥適的 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
31307.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
31308.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
214案為軍事醫療作業為盲軍委員所提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
31331.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
31342.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
提案內容是機械設備的維護需求這一個問題已到違反事實是說明那或委員同意凍結70萬並向外委會提出順便報告使得動之請委員指導沒有問題好214案凍結70萬順便報告後使得動之215到219案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
31351.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
31369.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
這個案子是交於行政的提案委員是黃仁委員、徐耀勛委員、馬文俊委員、王定穎委員等4位內容為物品費、一般事務費的跟軍事官邊線的問題以到為半是提供完整塑料及說明,見行為併案同意這個3減這個100萬元科目自行調整3減還是凍結3減100萬元科目自行調整並後續並凍結100萬元向委員會這個提出報告後使得凍結請委員指導好我 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
31380.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
31380.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
海軍要達成2030國家雙語政策是只有海軍嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
31394.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
31401.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
這是一個全國軍都要做的事情那為什麼對因為我們剛剛審那個陸軍的時候都沒有那個雙語教學為什麼啊沒有我是好奇部長還是說就是我很好奇說有嗎沒有啊剛沒看到啊有雙語教學嗎有我剛有聽到有在討論雙語教學有嗎我都我全場都在那個陳建義他自從拿到預算之後他已經不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
31420.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
31424.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
他這裡回復說雙語教學225萬然後要購置英語原文教材然後有45個單位每個單位5萬然後225萬我是不知道這樣是可以學到什麼英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
31438.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
31454.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
但是沒關係我只是覺得這個說明就很好笑就是說很怎麼講很沒有尊潔我再舉個例子你給我的說明裡面寫說你們買文具、碳粉匣跟紙張是一年要220萬那我怎麼想也是覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
31458.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
31468.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
你這個尊潔上面來說的話似乎並不是做得很好然後沒關係好我們2030雙語國家政策我支持你剛剛講的這我OK但拜託我覺得呢我們針對這種什麼文具碳粉匣跟紙張啊真的是能省則省然後呢也要考慮一些效益就是我其實沒有覺得你編錢一定要編少或什麼的但今天我們去想一個狀況是我今天我要打到2030 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
31486.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
31513.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
的國家雙語政策我要讓我的國軍都聊就是一會講英文好了那你45個單位每個單位5萬塊錢然後你買了英文教材誰看就是說你們有瞭解說到底有沒有人在閱讀嗎還是你就買了之後放在那裡呢那如果你買了之後只是放在那裡第一個也沒辦法達成你的目標第二個你就浪費了225萬這就跟我們先前有講過說是不是像以前我在市議會是不是每一個議會辦公室都要訂報紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
31514.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
31515.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
稍後請陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
31543.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
31560.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
謝謝主席其實這個我講一下我認為說這個雙語教學這個現在是在海軍所以他們理論上是不用說一些服便一些不需要的教材而是針對海軍你們跟這個友方會用什麼樣的是就像你去做訓練一樣在美國的陸戰隊他們的訓練都是以他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
31562.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
31563.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
海軍說明之前我那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
31580.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
31594.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
負荷剛才陳萬霖委員提法當然我們國軍有國軍的任務目標了語言提升基本上是跟友軍的指令或者相關的口令各方面你不可能再請個翻譯那個作戰的時間會錯過這是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
31595.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
31596.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
馬文俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
31613.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
31620.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
謝謝主席因為我大概是就我們每年像我們海軍這個遠航訓練的部分我們主要三減數大概也是針對這個部分因為我們每年計畫都很完整可是也是每年都有繳回相關的預算所以我們現在編列的已經夠了所以你應該也不需要再增加你增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
31636.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
31637.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
主要的目的是這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
31645.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
31646.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
參謀長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
31669.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
31670.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
剩下的剩下的剩下的剩下的剩下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
31692.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
31719.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
徐曉鑫委員的216案當成簡列案的主案科目自行調整那凍結案以王定宇委員的218案為主題案並案處理書面報告後使得凍支那那個章偉我希望書面報告的部分可以提供一份英語教材給我們參考英語教材有都一樣的嗎你不要給我發現你在讀Sesame Street |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
31720.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
31741.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
因為你都寫說有每單位五萬元的英語教材嘛所以你就給我們那個每單位五萬元的英語教材一套我們來看看你到底是在學什麼可能會略又不一樣因為等級不一樣有些是士官等級有些是軍官等級你把你的教材送一份來給我們看一下那個明細就好了不用整套拿來吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
31741.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
31741.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
現在處理到219案 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
31762.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
31773.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
我們待會5點半讓大家吃個晚飯然後我們後續處理到空軍整個完整完我們再結束接下來處理的是220案到223案 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
31776.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
31781.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
海軍訓練綜合費提案委員．馬雲軍委員．學校軍委員．黃昏委員提案軍委訓練費有關編列．當初發生體測成績．登錄不實的部分．一項委員．完整說明建警委員．同意併案凍結100萬元．提交書面報告後使得凍值．請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
31799.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
31802.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
黃仁委員為主提案並案凍結一百萬書面報告後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
31819.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
31820.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
31838.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
31841.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
221改組決議其他併案以黃人委員的案為主題案併案凍結一百萬書面報告後使得動之224到226案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
31857.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
31871.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
24到26為後勤綜合勤務的一個費用提案委員為馬文俊委員及薛華勛委員提案內容為硬體跟裝備設付費的一個編列那以向委員委辦室提出說明建建委員同意併案凍結100萬元書面報告這個之後施的動之請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
31882.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
31883.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
22426蓋參謀長你們達成的共識是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
31904.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
31923.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
同意併案凍結一百萬元來區議員我有意見因為我們剛剛前面有一個啊就是我剛剛有問嘛就是你們的那個文具碳粉匣跟紙張不是剛剛有一個兩百二十萬嗎對不對那你們在這一次的這個物品費用裡面啊你們又編碳粉匣是一千八百零六萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
31924.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
31952.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
那基本上我幫你換算過你可以買3600個碳粉匣所以我不太清楚說你需要這麼多碳粉匣是要做甚呢就是你是想要來請說明來報名前面的是屬於這個官校跟其他的人事行政的就是說雙語教學跟其他這個預算屬於後勤單位比如說我們整個後勤處我們全軍的預算2000多萬都是用在他所有開會跟所有的必要開銷的所以你們每年都每年的碳粉 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
31953.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
31964.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
就都需要到1806萬要印那麼多東西我們有很多的聯基團單位的這個這個預算科子目的會掛在這個上面他等於所有的單位所有的基地都放在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
31964.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
31966.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
他們應該是採購配下去啦他們基層不會負責採購啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
31984.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
31984.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
224跟226（224跟225（ |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
31999.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
32000.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
32014.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
32018.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
．19日及18日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
32041.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
32043.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
數面報告涵蓋這些病案凍結100萬以225萬為主題案病案處理凍結100萬數面報告後捨得動之現在處理227到228案 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
32058.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
32077.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
這兩個案是針對的是設備維修維護與管理提案委員為休亞軍委員主要針對下午期的新建營工的工程問題以提供書面資料那相關的這個違規的事項均由這個軍備局級相關的營運署實施裁罰跟這個處分建軍委員同意這個預算照列免於凍結請委員指導來委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
32081.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
32109.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
又是這個建築工程又來了喔怎麼大家都一樣這是養護吧對 它是一個興建同胞工程的缺失但是這個經費是在銀改基金裡面的對 它銀改基金裡面但是它實際上我們會就是凍結它的這個理由是在這個下湖東營區的興建工程的缺失啦那這個發包的廠商違法次數非常多而且上過很多次新聞嘛人家說有那個移工還是什麼的也是在那邊跑來跑去嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
32110.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
32136.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
因為交委應該知道這個事情就一直都有移工然後抓到了然後呢每幾個月之後又再抓一批我們乾脆移民署都到你那裡待命好了就那為什麼那裡會有移工呢一定就是你家就包商在違法使用移工嘛不然他們沒事聚集在那廠裡幹嘛所以我覺得就是說我們國軍啊我們在發包這些廠商啊然後在委外的時候啊那我們也要注意到就是其他的勞動法規吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
32137.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
32137.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
海軍﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
32172.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
32173.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
第一件事情是﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
32186.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
32195.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
可以但是你要確保說那家廠商你有把他列黑名單不要再給我們看到一次因為這樣子你一法處理就好對你一法處理沒有錯但實際上面呢我們質詢的時候已經講過這件事情了確實有發生然後你們也去做所謂的裁罰嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
32206.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
32208.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
227、228病案凍結500萬書面報告後使得凍失書面報告請涵蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
32226.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
32253.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
這個委員垂詢的工程裡面涉及非法移工多次查獲的精進作為以及依法對廠商進行的處置必須列在報告內陳冠廷委員問一下因為之前我們上次問的時候說有沒有那些移工在營區你們說沒有在營區結果他們不是沒有在營區他們是在做營區設施的修繕他是違法上次我在質詢的時候你們給我回應說沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
32254.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
32281.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
這樣說明一下好不好委員這個是海軍的營區但是營改基金不是正常的預算來這個海軍常委長我來說明這個案子是我們軍備局的營改基金這個案子我們許委員已經給我們諮詢過了那這個移工我們按照因為是缺工的問題只要是公共工程委員會同意的只要一個廠商標到國軍的工程一億以上或者是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
32282.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
32297.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
標到兩個工程各5000萬以上（就可以引進合法的移工（這個移工的數量（要由公共工程委員會去核定（目前剛剛徐議員講的沒錯（他是非法移工（他是抓到非法移工（然後113年失業（再一次抓到5個（一次抓到6個（按照移民署的標準的罰則是（每一個罰10萬（抓到一個非法移工他要10萬（他有2個是不能用（對（要扣掉2個（對（ |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
32311.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
32315.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
然後呢兩個又不能用然後我們一到契約我們再給他加一次再給他10萬等於我們給他罰兩倍然後並且我們會把他的所有的他的惡行惡狀啊在依照公共工程委員會指導的會在他的禮約的一個績效裡面啊我們在照片的時候我們會把他的所有的違法事項都打出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
32330.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
32356.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
委員一看到之後這一家其實這個都沒問題的但是有的該因為工程會有一個條款可以把它的牌吊銷一段時間這個你們也可以考慮好不好以227案為主案再來是229案請說明229案為水電供應以致馬南軍委員辦公室提供完整的說明以資料那或委員同意預算照例每一項請委員指導來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
32360.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
32368.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
我們發現這一次不管是陸海空軍或其他的單位我們這個電費的部分這幾年其實像前幾年它經費非常高挑高甚至百分之好幾百它都是為了要把它補足可是我們現在看到的數據資料111年是6億5000萬那時候還不足5000多萬112年也是編6億5000萬那時候已經不足1億4500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
32389.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
32397.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
到了113年（我們已把它編到7億3千萬（結果它不足數有1億7千多萬（ |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
32399.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
32425.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
所以你明年又要編到8億多它每年每年電費增加的幅度非常高這個還只是海軍喔等下空軍更高所以就這個部分因為台電在調漲電費的同時我們國防國軍其實要承受它因為我們是用電大戶所以它調漲的幅度好像高達百分之六十幾這樣是非常高所以65吧有漲到 漲65% |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
32428.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
32432.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
我如果沒有記錯的話高壓是漲17%低壓電費漲10%應該沒有到65%對啊可是如果是這樣可是他經費是調整調整的幅度是這麼多所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
32449.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
32458.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
所以因為這是只有海軍我就說光是這樣再加上這個到底他要多少才夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
32460.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
32479.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
應該要一個比較明確的一個交代因為你每一年編然後每一年又增加它已經每年增加一億多了所以到底多少應該讓大家知道一下那這個用電的方向應該要怎麼樣去檢討我們同意照列啦可是這個部分到底要用到多少水電費調整不是辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
32482.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
32497.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
謝謝Marion我們229案同意照列但是可能軍種有一些新的裝備新的東西是要用電的你像未來如果要用雷射的話那個也是把電集中起來然後雷打我的意思說有的是電費 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
32499.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
32500.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
接下來230到234案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
32519.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
32540.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
二三零到二三四案為通信電子的這個管理資訊費及這個後勤通知業務提案委員馬仁鈞委員黃立委員及徐曉欣委員提案委員資訊軟體的設備更新等以至委辦室說明及提供資料請委員同意並案凍結三百萬元並提供書面資料後適得凍結請委員指導馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
32543.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
32556.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
就這個部分他經費其實也是有一直在調高可是我們要特別說明的是像在報告的時候就是說我們新增9個單位可是他要買97台電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
32560.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
32565.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
這幾個大隊其實人並不多所以你提供的資料給我們看到的就是有50、20、50甚至這個高達97台就每個單位各自買自己的作戰的買作戰的計劃的買計劃的通知部門買通知類後勤是後勤然後治海大隊也要50台電腦它只是作業用所以變成大家各自買自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
32586.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
32589.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
海豐自己也有自己的電腦所以我想其實他可能在這個電腦的運用跟控制還有他的總數我覺得應該要去統整啊不然大家買那麼多然後你只是放著 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
32602.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
32610.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
234案以232案為主案並案處理凍結300萬書面報告後使得凍支接下來處理235案到244案來請說明235到244案為並案為後勤通知有關軍事裝備零附件及保修提案委員有馬雲軍委員、區號軍委員及林立軍委員等三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
32634.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
32659.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
235-236 主要是針對岸日計籌及戰鬥背心237 為徐曉勳委員提案為中岸飛彈燃料及下午東營區的問題238-244 為林毅君委員主要是針對防護頭盔及防彈鋼板的問題都已經完成去說明及完整資料建勤委員同意併案凍結八千萬元提供書面報告後適可動之請委員指導好我們請林毅君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
32661.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
32687.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
238-244 235-244 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
32690.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
32699.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
我們以林毅君委員的第238案為主案好不好好並案凍結八千萬書面報告經同意後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
32701.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
32710.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
主席他剛剛因為有一些病案我們的那個理由我們希望他們要一併考量我們所有的病案提案委員都會有提案的案由那當場開會也會有開會的垂詢所以書面報告務必把這些項目涵蓋在內那我們合併只是為了在預算科目上整併在一起235到244案以林益君委員241案為主題案病案 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
32729.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
32752.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
動結8000萬元書面報告經同意後使得動之我這邊要回覆的就是呢你們有初步的回覆有關於我們的這個非淡燃料的部分海軍有委託中科院產品這個來做協議書的規範那中科院檢附的合格標準提供海軍審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
32753.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
32763.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
相關的細節以及這個測試的過程那我希望呢可以在你們的回復當中回復當中來提供這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
32772.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
32789.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
徐曉欣委員提的部分就請列入報告部分我剛剛選擇那個案子不好因為那案子原列數才6千多萬我們就把它動掉8千所以來找一個適當的科目可能徐曉欣委員那個案子237找一個高的來併才不會佔比太高 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
32800.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
32821.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
這跟各位同仁報告各位的數量我都有兼顧到所以我們現在是不是這一案235到244以徐曉欣委員的237為主題案並案凍結八千萬書面報告經同意後使得動之書面報告請涵蓋委員錘詢跟書面詢問的部分好 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
32822.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
32824.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
那245案請說明馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
32845.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
32862.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
對這個庫儲設施的部分損壞的部分當然是該修啦那這個大概在兩個地方嘛可是他要修哪些然後他的估價因為我們看到的也是局部的一些資料而已那你高達一億八千多萬所以我們希望還有更詳細的一個說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
32864.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
32866.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
246-249案為一般武器及戰備資源裝備的構制提案委員黃仁委員、馬雲俊委員及陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
32882.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
32898.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
移到委員辦公室實施說明及提供資料建請委員同意併案凍結300萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導來各位有沒有意見沒有意見我們以陳冠廷委員的第248案為主提案併案凍結300萬元書面報告後使得凍資250案到251案 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
32907.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
32918.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
250-251為陸用型偵偵機的無人機提案委員馬文君委員及林益君委員以完成說明建局委員同意併案凍結300萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資縣委員指導來OK嗎沒有問題250-251兩案以林益君委員的251案為主提案併案凍結300萬元書面報告後使得凍資來接下來252-254 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
32935.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
32948.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
252到254主要的款項是倉城潛射重型魚雷提案委員為林益均委員、馬文均委員及黃岩委員以完整說明建請委員同意併案凍結1億元提出順便報告10個通知請你們同意凍結1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
32950.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
32957.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
252、254這一個以馬文君委員的提案為主提案並案凍結一億元書面報告經同意後使得凍之接下來是255案255案為建載起的真正無人機提案委員馬文君委員已完成說明或委員同意凍結300萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
32979.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
32981.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
並提出書面報告後使得動之請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
33003.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
33018.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
256案到257案建容級的事情請說明256至257為建容級戰鬥系統提倡案提案委員為馬洋軍委員、黃岩委員以完整說明建行委員同意併案凍結五千萬元提出順便報告時的動作請委員指導有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
33028.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
33047.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
256、257兩案這個建農級提升案以馬文君委員的提案為主提案並案凍結五千萬元書面報告經同意後使得凍結258案258案為新的方陣快炮的這個構案提案委員馬文君委員已完成說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
33049.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
33065.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
獲得委員同意凍結300萬元（提出書面報告後使得凍資（經委員知道好 那就300萬好 那個地方政快報這個案258案凍結300萬書面報告後使得凍資好 接下來259261案這是我們海昆潛艦原型艦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
33074.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
33080.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
提案委員．馬航軍委員．黃岩委員及陳永康委員提案都有關海上動態的相關的一個測試的問題那建行委員同意這個預算照列免於凍結請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
33098.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
33100.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
主要的風險並不是海軍而是臺船公司要配合測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
33115.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
33138.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
大家以為這個船開出去了就開了因為他沒有成軍不是像艦龍艦在荷蘭完整測試回來成軍再出海去做我們的戰術測評所以第一次出去測海測試的時候臺船公司可能上來30個人然後海軍去support他50個人但是他不是一個完整的團隊他光出港啊人員登艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
33139.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
33161.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
開到港外20海里,可能只有7節,開到20海里已經3個小時了進出港靠到一個多小時,回港又3小時,已經8個小時了然後在海上做4小時到5小時的測試,已經超過大半天了這個時候船上沒有水,自己帶礦泉水,沒有餐自己帶便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
33163.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
33182.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
最麻煩的是這八十個人還不會上廁所因為前進只有三個廁所你沒有受過專業訓練你根本連廁所都不會用所以光第一次出海的準備尤其是在左高外面那個商船密度之大所以你要發布一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
33184.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
33185.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
12月10日中共在那邊演習中間有一條船 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
33209.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
33211.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
臺船公司對於這次整個出海測試的保險簽了沒有是哪家公司保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
33231.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
33232.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
33249.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
33252.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
謝謝老長官提這些專業的意見也感謝改組決議我們就不凍結我不知道其他委員還有什麼其他意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
33280.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
33283.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
我原來是提凍結5000萬就這個部分因為我們現在它的結案的時間延了4年因為在從過去到現在一直對外說明都說我們是非常的順利然後各方面它的工項所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
33301.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
33303.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
．19日及18日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
33327.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
33328.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
稍微我這邊再補充一個就是說你的第一條船的結案的時間往後延四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
33354.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
33378.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
當你延到第4年的時候你已經回台船做第一次的場級維修了你在你前面交船了以後如果順利交船你每年要做一次定保這個定保期程你要跟台船由他負責所以第一年回場定保那個是depot level的depot還不是depot是4年後的大修這中間就是我們講的中級維修 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
33379.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
33401.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
每年都要回去所以你出廠四年結案你已經回廠三次終極維修再加一次大修這個大修一搞一年到一年半如果你大修沒出廠你怎麼結案所以這個東西要臺船能夠非常講得清楚這個不是海軍的責任因為在你的第一個約裡面的首件的大修就是要回臺船 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
33402.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
33405.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
臺船為了要展現他的修造能力我們肯定但是千萬不要超負荷他都答應我們現在請教臺船全臺船的工人多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
33426.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
33440.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
海倉廠的人多少工人所以在造船跟修船的時候他是同步由海倉廠的人負責還是他外包比方講他沒有船台他說我跟中信族船台那個錢算誰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
33441.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
33462.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
還有第一次大修的料配件是包括在第一條船的建造所以這個東西請海軍跟海船一定要釐清好謝謝陳永康委員那很專業很中肯的建議我們第259案到第261案是我們海昆軍艦原型艦的第二階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
33463.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
33488.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
那事實上過去4年我們每個節點在國防委員會我們不管是機密會議或者到海參場去到場訪查都按著節點所以這4年我不會用延宕來形容這4年其實是按著節點按著騎乘一步一步往前走從我們照不出來到他照出來還可以進行這個港測這已經是很重要一步那也特別感謝各位同仁我們259261案 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
33490.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
33516.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
改用主決議處理請主決議提出之後我建議我們委員會的同仁一併都聯署一併都聯署也請海軍把這些專業的意見不管是保險再保險船塢的使用以及在測試的這一個區域範圍內陸海空水面下的維安安保以及空域水域它的時程各方面請詳列在 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
33518.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
33521.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
回復主決議書面報告上259、261原則上該主決議預算照案通過非常感謝接下來主決議讓陳永康委員先簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
33554.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
33564.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
262案為新一代巡防艦的冤親艦的籌措提案委員為馬文君委員以向建請委員同意凍結異議並提出書面報告使得凍親委員知道馬委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
33572.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
33574.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
統一凍結一役不過這一個案子全案245役這個是新一代輕型巡防艦第二階段的這個原型艦的籌建因為當時被質疑的部分是說可能雷打過大啦或者他的垂發做不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
33594.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].end |
33597.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].text |
那要籌獲二級艦當時我們也是說我們缺中級艦因為像海軍他分一級、二級、三級那有少校、中校、上校他足級上升都有一型船艦他是可以去接的可是那時候說缺中級艦可是到最後我們因為這些因素我們就沒有做了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].start |
33616.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].end |
33619.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].text |
很多軍官在三級單身艦長沒有二級艦還要等很久才可以升到一級艦所以這個部分要怎麼去克服那媒體又有報導說要重啟震海 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].start |
33630.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].end |
33631.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].text |
統一凍結伊伊朗 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].start |
33649.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].end |
33662.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].text |
順便報告竟同意後使得動之就這一個侵巡的部分當然我們缺這個頓位了現在確實到幾頓我們這邊就不講但是除了蓋瑪委員提的那個部分你們要注意我那時候跟你們講說我們現在的存活率跟車業引發的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].start |
33666.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].end |
33682.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].text |
．19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].start |
33683.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].end |
33684.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].start |
33698.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].end |
33698.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].start |
33728.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].end |
33751.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].text |
40年前的派離集這個我請海軍你們去督導因為畢竟他還在照當中那就剛才馬文君委員提到的部分請你們務必除了這個以外如果要重啟一級艦的話那你克服了什麼技術瓶頸讓你可以重啟否則當年為什麼要改這個東西如果是媒體謠傳你待會就可以說目前沒有這個計畫這樣就簡單明瞭海軍有沒有要補充的 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].start |
33754.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].end |
33759.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].text |
263案為多功能特種作戰訓練的一個訓場提案委員馬元君委員以獲馬元君委員這個溝通說明獲委員同意凍結一千萬元提出順便報告時的動之期委員指導來馬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].start |
33782.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].end |
33785.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].text |
這個部分他其實從109年、110年都是在弄專管甚至那時候還有工程房設備的一個狀況因為我們設備先買然後隔年這個案子我們那時候不是念過你先買了設備房子蓋好房子蓋好設備過期了房子又要好幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].start |
33802.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].end |
33807.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].text |
所以我們那時候就有提出質疑說為什麼要先買設備因為你錢放在那裡沒有問題啊你應該是把工程完成以後像現在工程又往後延結果你設備買了那把它放那麼久這是我們當時就有提出來的還有另外一個我們希望因為我們很多的案子都是在第一年就把那個標語款就轉到管制預算就把它用掉了這個也是討價薄 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].start |
33828.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].end |
33828.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].text |
一千萬沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].start |
33846.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].end |
33846.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].start |
33863.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].end |
33869 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].text |
264案為訓場複合式把標的建案提案委員馬文君委員會員同意凍結一千萬提出書面報告使得動之請委員指導這跟前面那一案是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].start |
33888.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].end |
33907.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].text |
264凍結一千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍值265到266康定級的請說明265到266為康定級戰鬥性能的提升提案委員黃仁委員及馬雲軍委員建情委員同意併案凍結七千萬提出書面報告後使得凍值經委員指導馬委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].start |
33910.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].end |
33915.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].text |
這個部分我們會凍結的理由主要是因為抗體級艦戰鬥系統的性能提升他全案他本來就到119年他從111年開始那目前第一艘艦首艦他明年就要完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].start |
33928.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].end |
33945.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].text |
那裝備獲得的狀況跟工程進度關乎後續建後續5艘的那個進程順利是不是可以順利所以第一艘會比較嚴謹那外購的部分總共有5樣嘛目前到3樣所以你目前還在做場測而且還有裝備沒有到所以我們凍結7000萬到了再說是好這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].start |
33956.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].end |
33973 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].text |
這個是康定及凍結7000萬另外我請問一下海軍我們現在研發很多海射型的什麼海艦零啊海艦啊到最後那些案子到底建設有沒有過啊海艦零還在做後續我每年都聽到你們說今年一定會通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].start |
33973.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].end |
33995.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].text |
265-266凍結7000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].start |
33996.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].end |
34005.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].text |
動結7000萬書面報告竟同意後使得動之接下來是267與266以266為主案來267案魚叉飛彈的案房系統來請說267案為魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統提案委員馬文君委員或委員同意動結2000萬元提出書面報告後使得動之請委員知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].start |
34025.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].end |
34038.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].text |
同意凍結2000萬因為他這個可能他有兩項嘛一個就是美方來的還有我們自己在執行的那是不是會如期我們也不曉得那於他現在也還有問題在113年要繳的三輛就是反正飛彈車跟雷達車也都還沒有到所以就這個部分我們凍結希望積極可以去爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].start |
34049.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].end |
34051.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].text |
267案凍結2000萬書面報告經同意後使得凍資268萬到271萬遣件國照第三階段後續件籌件的後續預算199600萬請海軍說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].start |
34069.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].end |
34088.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].text |
268-271案為併案為僭建國造第三階段後續建的籌建提案委員為林玉君委員、徐曉勳委員、馬文俊委員及黃衡恩等4位委員現在目前的部分因為這是屬於重要的一個政策所以說希望委員可以同意免於刪除及凍結請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].start |
34092.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].end |
34101.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].text |
希望以主決意來取代凍結或其他做法來聽聽不同委員的意見林益君委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].start |
34105.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].end |
34130.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].text |
針對這個案子其實我們海昆號現在在博港測試都還沒有完成然後後面還有海市所以其實全部的缺失都還沒有在修正的前提下表示潛艦的構型其實都還沒有定然後這整個構型未定的時候要去計算後面漆燒的成本就很有可能預算會暴漲的可能性很高而且目前在測試的階段何時可以才能確定測試呢像上一次部長有說嘛海測試在明年4月完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].start |
34133.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].end |
34133.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].text |
馬文君委員還有其他委員要表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].start |
34159.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].end |
34160.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].text |
國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分（不含國家安全局部分（不含國家安全局 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].start |
34180.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].end |
34180.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].start |
34210.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].end |
34210.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].start |
34240.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].end |
34246.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].text |
到最後包括你的海事或者有沒有符合我們的作戰需求比如像新加坡他是由德國協助他們去造潛艦他光是第一艘他從下水到他可以交艦使用他總共經過6年7個月或6年9個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].start |
34260.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].end |
34263.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].text |
新加坡跟德國這麼成熟的一個選建製造的國家他都是按照這樣的期程然後才到第二艘第二艘他雖然時間比較短也要一年九個月所以我們明年即使不管你是在九月或四月或者什麼時候你經過海事以後還有一段時間要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].start |
34281.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].end |
34284.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].text |
所以這一段時間其實可以讓我們檢視所有的需求這是第二點那如果我們是用凍結你即使全凍或者我們刪到剩下一千塊都等同於我們通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].start |
34297.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].end |
34303.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].text |
這個2840億的預算就像我們剛剛提到的啊我們有很多他在第一年你即使編的很少可是你後面綁了一個很大的金額你要執行這些預算那你既然明年他根本不會用到你可以在明年再編如果你明年可以做到了你明年編大家還是可以去讓他通過或者好好的去審視這個預算所以就這個部分我們還是希望可以全三 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].start |
34325.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].end |
34326.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].text |
這是我們全山的一個理由跟原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].start |
34341.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].end |
34358.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].text |
謝謝馬文君委員那後續由王逸川委員跟徐曉新委員但是你們在發言之前是不是部長或者海軍參謀長就全三會導致潛艦這計畫哪裡自愛難行或者是你們的困難我想溝通一下把它說出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].start |
34359.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].end |
34380.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].text |
我想刪除這一件事情的話就會顯示我們對於後續建的這個建造的決心可能會因此而喪失那我們當然很希望這一個我已經一直以來的承諾就是說我們一定等海策通過以後我們再行動之這個我們現在所編列的這個21 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].start |
34383.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].end |
34400.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].text |
19一多近21那所以這樣子的一個等到海車通過才會動之這樣子的一個承諾我想絕對是會做得到但是如果說我們不編列然後刪除的話那我想對於臺船而言來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].start |
34401.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].end |
34416.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].text |
他對於他人員的維持以及跟次承包上面的一個合作關係乃至於這一個備料本身都會因此而完全的沒有把握說這個後續線是不是會繼續走下去那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].start |
34418.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].end |
34434.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].text |
我們每一個案子都會還是會把這個每年的編的預算還是送到這個我這個大院來那就跟剛剛一樣的像如果剛有些提到說掀起規劃案也好或者原一開始編列預算也好但是每年進來還是會經過大院的審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].start |
34436.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].end |
34436.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].text |
海軍補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].start |
34463.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].end |
34476.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].text |
海軍補充大概有三點因為敵情前所未有所以說我們現在的老舊的一個兵力都已經一個是70幾年一個是將近快40年了所以說我們在往後delay這往後delay如果看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].start |
34478.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].end |
34502.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].text |
這兩年後可能廠商不見了重要的供貨不見了那可能就不是兩年的問題這是第一個第一個就是說現在我們有臺船累積的能量那建造的效益它也在提升所以這兩天成大的很多的一些教授也提出這個業績的一些期許那我們對國際友盟對我們現在是最高的如果說我們在這麼最好的狀況下其實我們現在精算成本海軍已經把這個潛艦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].start |
34503.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].end |
34503.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].start |
34530.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].end |
34553.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].text |
在這個在我們臺船再繼續做那我們就覺得這個很令人欽佩就請議員能夠多支持謝謝好來王一川委員好我想這個大家都支持潛艦國造在場不會有立法委員反對全台灣都支持第二階段這個差不多會進入第三階段這個把它砍掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].start |
34555.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].end |
34561.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].text |
不要說什麼,這怕砍掉就代表國防部或海軍就是沒辦法做了就砍掉了,砍掉就沒有要做了所以我是這個建議不要砍可是大家對這個潛艦國造大家聽起來還有一些疑慮所以我剛才補充說的海撤後,還有黨用車的錢所以我剛才林益君委員說要凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].start |
34582.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].end |
34585.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].text |
凍結 凍結也是一個辦法 不要凍那麼多凍十億太多 大家討論要凍多少 千萬不要把這筆預算全部砍掉全部砍掉 國際社會怎麼看我們 砍掉我們的敵人最高興 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].start |
34600.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].end |
34600.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].start |
34623.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].end |
34628.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].text |
中台這會閉大新聞國際社會也會看著說不然在台灣就要遣件國照做兩隻、做幾隻之後說什麼要停這樣不好這個對國際的我們認為我們要自己要有自己的國防也會對我們沒有信心所以我是建議阿朗主席你看協調一下看要動多少我只要協調我面子題才會到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].start |
34651.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].end |
34652.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].text |
徐曉鑫委員、林柱英委員、馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].start |
34666.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].end |
34686.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].text |
其實剛才在我們這個原型件的時候那陳永康將軍他也有發表了很多意見那我們也有請教過他那對於所謂的第二艘原型件的部分那是不是有過度樂觀的情況就是說第二艘原型件我們那預算剛才也都用主決議的方式通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].start |
34686.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].end |
34694.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].text |
可是剛才陳永康將軍也點出了第二階段的第一艘原型艦那在這個部分如果說我們是比較過度樂觀的話當然會讓大家擔心說現在的保證跟承諾說好那9月能夠海策成功11月能夠交艦能不能夠做到這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].start |
34708.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].end |
34721.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].text |
因為如果明就到11月交件假設說有任何一點的閃失的話其實就到後年了所以他有沒有在今年編列預算的必要性這是第一點好第二點呢是我們當然都講說每年都會送預算進來嗎可問題是呢現在的狀況是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].start |
34727.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].end |
34727.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].text |
每一艘艇 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].start |
34755.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].end |
34765.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].text |
我覺得一個政府就我們以民主政治來看一個總統好了一個執政政黨那他就是最多8年那我們一次現在編列到127年來看的話我個人會覺得是有疑慮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].start |
34770.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].end |
34773.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].text |
（中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分（三天一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].start |
34790.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].end |
34793.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].text |
有一個決議說我們一次是就在每一次的海策完成之後然後才去簽下一條船的預算然後一次一條就用這樣的方式因為不然我們很難在審查預算的時候去控制那個節點 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].start |
34807.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].end |
34821.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].text |
海軍那可以自我控制節點這個我都相信海軍可是我們審查預算的時候我們的審查的時間點跟你們的控管節點不一定是一樣的所以在這種狀況之下就會出現雙邊對不上那未來如果有問題那一砍那反而變成是我們後面的劍全部都出問題出狀況了所以這個是我個人的一個建議那我覺得如果大家的想法是差距很大的話那我也建議保留宋協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].start |
34834.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].end |
34835.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].text |
林楚瑩委員一聲援請巡視一下麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].start |
34847.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].end |
34854.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].text |
首先我也是滿開心就是今天坐在這邊的委員不論朝野都是支持我們的潛艦國造那麼其實當初我看到這個預算的時候為什麼是20億我曾經跟海軍詢問過因為我們知道現在編列的是後續潛艦籌備的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].start |
34865.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].end |
34884.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].text |
所以我特別問了這20億用在什麼地方那麼這是我現在念一下當時海軍給我的資料其中17.64億是主要合約就是跟船廠簽約的簽約款表示我們接下來後續要簽約要持續建然後呢武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].start |
34885.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].end |
34908.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].text |
的所謂購置生效款是2億然後聘用技術、法律、會計跟一般行政的費用大概0.36億言下之意就是說如果現在這個砍掉我現在為什麼特別念出來如果海軍這邊有補充可以講就是說這個就表示說我們接下來要後續建造的簽約金然後船務金他完全都沒有實際的進入所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].start |
34911.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].end |
34911.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].text |
本席是強烈認為就是不可以刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].start |
34938.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].end |
34958.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].text |
至於說也不可以動那至於說到底要怎麼樣可以啟用是不是要等到後續的海測或者是其他的測試之後應該是可以有一個動用的時間點或是一個但書但是如果這20億你就把它砍掉了那擺明了就是後續遣件、籌件、補件 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].start |
34960.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].end |
34970.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].text |
所以我是強烈的認為不應該刪也不應該動但是可以用主決議的方式來進行處理給他們一個就是可以啟用的一個節點 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].start |
34972.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].end |
34981.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].text |
馬文君委員二次發言二次發言剛剛有很多委員提到就是說其實我們的主決議也可以做一個就是我們同意全三他如果符合作戰需求的時候馬上編這樣也可以我們展現給全世界看這個部分一樣的意思你如果通過了以後我們馬上編這也是展現我們的決心這個也是主決議這是第一個我們剛剛要聽到有很多委員有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].start |
35002.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].end |
35002.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].start |
35016.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].end |
35021.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].text |
他已經拖延多久今天我們從來沒有新的潛艦我們一直用的就是海龍海虎他一直在維持我們的水下的安全我們從來沒有其他的潛艦那因為原來沒有的就會影響到我們的國家安全這樣的邏輯我覺得好像也很難說得通這是第一個因為你 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].start |
35038.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].end |
35042.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].text |
海龍海虎你的建容其實也在提升啊而且你還延三年那那那一種的不會影響我們的戰力影響我們的國防安全這是第一個第二個他的人員會不會流失因為我們在做IDF的時候是因為我們那時候周邊的國家韓國那時候他們也在起步我們這些人才停了好幾年他沒有辦法做也許就被拉走了可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].start |
35063.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].end |
35066.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].text |
請見我們像我們剛剛講的日本韓國甚至菲律賓他們要用買的或者像新加坡或者其他泰國等等馬來西亞他們都有國家不管是採購也好不管是要自己建造也好他們都有國家在協助他們所以他們不需要在這邊拉這樣的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].start |
35084.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].end |
35090.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].text |
而且大家不要忘記他為什麼會流失我們的第一艘艦還沒完成欸這些人都還在做第一艘艦所以人才會流失這個也不可能發生那剛剛講的決心也是啊我們同意啊我們把這個預算刪掉因為你第一艘就還沒做好我們不知道這個預算到底怎麼編出來的你的武器裝備或者你的戰器或者你的載台是不是可以沉到300米以下你不會爆裂我們也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].start |
35114.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].end |
35115.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].text |
所以像這些都已經做過我們的不只海撤以後他應該要符合我們的作戰需求這是基本的原則我們如果說這個新的我們以前從來沒有的然後現在因為沒有我們國家就會生死存亡那你其他的武器裝備F16說多重要你都還沒來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].start |
35136.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].end |
35141.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].text |
那你要怎麼說那為什麼大家沒有去針對這些去爭取或者應該讓它如期可以到達我們台灣來保護防衛我們的國家這個部分另外還有一個就是你要簽約這才是最大的問題當你通通還沒有一個比較完整的或者這個可不可以用的時候你跟哪一家簽約或者你如果要跟台船台船也跑不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].start |
35164.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].end |
35166.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].text |
臺船本來主要執行潛艦的部分所以剛剛提到的這些部分我覺得這些疑慮大家並不用擔心而且按照我們的決心如果我們正常組決議反過來而已你就把它全刪只要經過作戰測評我們馬上就可以去 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].start |
35189.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].end |
35191.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].text |
我相信我在國防委員會主持會議我從來不會去臆測每個人的動機背景我們都一起在這邊為國家而努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].start |
35211.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].end |
35234.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].text |
前件也超越了很多不同政黨執政的時候我們都努力的想要有因為那個真的對安全很重要海軍少了水面下的戰力就是只剩一半的海軍這個是海軍將領跟我所說的所以從蔣經國時代到陳水扁時代到馬英九時代到蔡英文時代都不斷的要去籌貨這些前件 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].start |
35236.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].end |
35254.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].text |
現在我們面對的問題第一個籌貨的難度我相信在場在這個會議廳的每一個人都知道台灣要造出自己的潛艦是何其困難我們在一些特殊的裝備特殊的技術協助連焊接的那個技術我們以前都不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].start |
35256.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].end |
35271.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].text |
我們都不會我們要把它照出來所以我們要自己努力自己有決心其實還不夠還要有外部的人願意來協助那因為國際政治氛圍改變以前買不到的不敢賣給你的他現在願意提供相關的技術協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].start |
35273.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].end |
35273.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].text |
中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].start |
35290.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].end |
35308.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].text |
我們在把這個預算砍到變零那原來我們是希望趕快簽約把那一些很難買到的東西很難取得技術能夠牢牢的掌握在手裡都還怕還怕不見拿到國家輸出許可還怕他把取消而且還真的發生過那我們現在連簽約的能力都沒有連簽約的預算一毛都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].start |
35317.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].end |
35336.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].text |
連約都沒有不要說國家的輸出許可了那我們後續見充滿的變數那是對我們國家有利還是不利的變數第二個以造建的紀律來講目前海昆號其實都按著期程走他沒有延宕他現在進行HAT原定期程到2025年的4月要完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].start |
35339.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].end |
35358.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].text |
（測驗不能打折扣也不能放水（要很嚴格的把它檢驗完（完了之後才會進行海測SAT（才會訂到2025年的11月以前（那這就牽涉到我們的預算機率（我們立法院按照法律規定（預算必須在8月最後一天以前送進立法院（ |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].start |
35359.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].end |
35377.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].text |
所以如果我們把這預算凍結了或砍掉了這一個哪怕到9月1號他測完了過關了這是好請見不好意思你要編預算進來要到2026年8月底才能再送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].start |
35380.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].end |
35399.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].text |
編進來的要到2027將會慢了兩年半以上那這兩年半的期程坦白講也許我們可以講說沒關係我們中間可以開追加預算開臨時會國外冒著風險冒著被中共經濟制裁的這些技術協助他願不願意跟你賭這一個風險我強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].start |
35401.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].end |
35421.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].text |
我們沒有人可以保證這個事但風險到底是對國家有利還是不利我希望大家思考那在預算的紀律上我們當然不容許那個SAT沒有過一毛錢都不要花一毛錢都花所以我們是不是可以找到一個方式既可以支持我們自己國家的潛建國造 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].start |
35421.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].end |
35449.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].text |
那又可以達到預算不讓海軍在SAT沒有測完之前可以花到半毛錢一個有紀律的處理方式既支持自己國家的安全又維繫預算的紀律如果我們現在把它刪到變零了其實剛才講那些風險通通都會放大而那個放大是對我們國家不利的我希望我們的同事大家好好思考找出一個可以解決的方式來現在請沈波洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].start |
35451.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].end |
35467.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].text |
我贊成剛剛趙偉說的齁剛剛那個逸川委員也有提到就是說在座的各位應該都是非常支持潛艦的啦齁我相信也是這個樣子只是剛剛聽到說要全山等到有作戰需求再編這句話我有點嚇到啦齁這個如果說要等到有作戰需求然後再來編的話那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].start |
35469.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].end |
35479.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].text |
臺灣不在還在不在我覺得這個可能是口誤啦但是我還是要說就是說這個其實潛艦國造明拿F35來做例子F35那時候B型C型的時候他要做那個外掛的那個夾艙機炮的那個夾艙也發現對不到目標對不到目標其實是很嚴重的問題但也不會因為這個樣子說我們現在F35就開始都不要再做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].start |
35493.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].end |
35513.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].text |
不會因為這個樣子因為我們今天不可能跟一個人講說你還沒有打拳在打之前我就不給你球棒你必須一定要是在這個狀況之下我們有那麼多的技術涵蓋在裡面這還包含跟其他國際之間還有廠商之間你的技術的移轉什麼等等之類的有些機會是稍縱即逝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].start |
35514.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].end |
35532.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].text |
所以我覺得你看前件的時候我們不能夠用我們一般的武器的概念來看所以我目前的主張我會覺得不只是說不要刪我是覺得連動都不要但是我覺得這個歧義有可能會很大但我還是覺得說至少我們在前件這邊尤其是現在美國新政府也要上任 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].start |
35533.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].end |
35543.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].text |
我們某種程度除了剛剛講的中間不能有空窗期這件事情之外我們其實也是在展現某種程度的決心但不是說我們立法委員不能夠監督我們之前也有開過機密會議在看海關號的這些內容我們也有這一個之後也有可能會有海關號的這些我記得之前已經有排過了保安會有排過那我們之後可能也還會再排 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].start |
35553.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].end |
35553.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].text |
陳冠廷委員．發言完．陳文康委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[1048].start |
35581.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[1048].end |
35599.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[1048].text |
其實現在的作戰需求都是支援跟支援的抵銷那現在台灣的時間跟支援有沒有站在我們這一邊所以我真的是很建議我們的所有的同仁能夠支持潛艦的這一個預算不管是撿跟凍我們都先不要做這樣子的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[1049].start |
35601.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[1049].end |
35620.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[1049].text |
第二點是,自從我們五方開始自製這樣的潛艦之後,中方投資在反潛的預算是非常大。他們不斷的在膨脹反潛的預算。也就是說,對他們來講,我們實質上面已經造成了嚇阻的力量。台灣的潛艦的不對稱力量是在這個平台上面是可以很顯著的展露出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1050].start |
35621.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[1050].end |
35621.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[1050].text |
陳永康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1051].start |
35648.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[1051].end |
35668.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[1051].text |
各位委員各位同仁我有一個海軍退伍的老兵的觀念來講這個經驗因為2000年的時候談這個潛艦當年這個美中起衝突在南海飛機撞擊於是在小布希任內就同意我們造潛艦那時候叫TDS |
| transcript.whisperx[1052].start |
35670.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[1052].end |
35687.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[1052].text |
當時我們的長官是因為堅持要軍售美國沒有這個軍自己沒有傳統潛艦他建議商售後來拖了4年我們沒有決定那這個案子就停下來了後來呢又改成ids就說國建國造這個使命我相信所有在場同仁都是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1053].start |
35688.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[1053].end |
35700.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[1053].text |
我現在講的風險跟預算凍結跟停止無關第一個我到今天沒有聽到臺川公司董事長跟他的總經理專案經理告訴我這個2840億8080萬在14年中間的騎乘海軍邊的付款騎乘跟他的造艦復合的騎乘是不是同步調第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1054].start |
35712.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[1054].end |
35731.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[1054].text |
我們跟臺船簽約臺船跟其他的供應商簽約沒有一個供應商跟你簽14年的約說出口許可但是呢保證裡面沒有但書我們現在能不能講美國為什麼這麼多的智庫做兵棋推演2026、2027、2028、2029、2032都可能起衝突我希望臺船能夠講如果兩岸中間因為軍事衝突臺船的造艦計劃中斷臺船如何補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[1055].start |
35743.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[1055].end |
35764.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[1055].text |
臺船如何在第三國找到再保險公司來對客戶做出保證這個責任不是海軍不是國防部是臺船要承擔臺船根本講不出來臺船在14年中做7條船是他的理想計劃但是第一條船交船了一年後回去中繼維修 |
| transcript.whisperx[1056].start |
35765.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[1056].end |
35777.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[1056].text |
兩年後回去終極維修三年後終極維修第四年回廠大修這個時候第二條船已經交船了隔一年又終極維修所以到四條船的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[1057].start |
35779.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[1057].end |
35797.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[1057].text |
4、5、6、7同步在施工這個時候有兩條船回廠大修有四條船在做中繼維修請問臺船的人力負荷跟他的廠棚設施能不能負擔這個部分我要請臺船來報告這個跟海軍沒關係但是真正的東西關鍵在合約 |
| transcript.whisperx[1058].start |
35798.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[1058].end |
35817.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[1058].text |
也就是說不要一廂情願的認為14年是順利的我尊重他的計劃但是如果在14年中間因為不可預抗的意外事件或是其他的國家在出口許可裡面有但書因為天災人禍情勢變化出口許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[1059].start |
35818.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[1059].end |
35846.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[1059].text |
取消了它的出口續合有效只有3年我跟你簽14年哪有國際的廠商說我為你開生產線供應的料因此這裡面有一個重要的角色中科院不能只做底下的只合約商變成臺船的下屬中科院要負責戰系的整合他跟美國要平起平坐而不是在臺船的下屬所以在這些裡面的問題今天都不是預算的問題而是期程的問題14年太過樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[1060].start |
35850.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[1060].end |
35869.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[1060].text |
臺國跟中國大陸簽了約買他的039改良型7年了結果3年過後德國通知中共說你的MTU主機我賣給你但不能給臺國我們現在面臨的很可能就是說我們的主機形勢會變也就是說你第二條船你的重量設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[1061].start |
35871.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[1061].end |
35900.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[1061].text |
你所有的規格都會改變你連規範都沒有解釋清楚你跟我說簽一個14年的約太過樂觀我們支持可以分段執行但是14年是絕對做不出來我相信臺船的董事長總經理來我來跟他開會我把過去我參加過所有的合約的討論的跟專案管理的我們做好來談海軍也了解因為風險承擔是全體國人來承擔但是如果這個計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[1062].start |
35901.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[1062].end |
35909.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[1062].text |
因為意外事件而不是順利執行過程中這個風險由誰來承擔我希望臺船人工事理定清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[1063].start |
35919.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[1063].end |
35919.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[1063].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1064].start |
35938.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1064].end |
35943.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[1064].text |
因為我們一直在講的主要是它的時間點的問題這一筆預算應該在什麼時候編剛剛陳永康委員其實也提到了很多的重點它包括裡面有什麼必須要更換的時候它甚至都會牽動到所有的不管是從原來的設計面還有未來的製造面 |
| transcript.whisperx[1065].start |
35963.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[1065].end |
35963.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[1065].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1066].start |
35978.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[1066].end |
35979.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[1066].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[1067].start |
35996.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[1067].end |
36002.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[1067].text |
所以我覺得大家不要把它放得很高說這個好像我們都沒有問題其他國家這麼成熟大家都有問題我們沒有問題我們也不是看誰可是你的時間點應該在對的時間對的地方這個才是最重要的我們也希望它可以一步一步來那你如果通過的時候因為我們一直強調你今天簽約了以後如果他們提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1068].start |
36023.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[1068].end |
36024.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[1068].text |
．19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19日及19 |
| transcript.whisperx[1069].start |
36048.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[1069].end |
36050.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[1069].text |
他都發生這麼多的問題我們怎麼可以這麼有信心要花掉這些預算2840億的時候你可以說你通通沒有問題我不知道在座的誰想要做這樣的保證啊你今天如果他通過了以後大家都沒有話說嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[1070].start |
36064.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[1070].end |
36082.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[1070].text |
這不是武器獲得應該有的嗎你會去買人家都還沒有實戰經驗或者包括美國賣給我們雖然是舊的至少他也是成熟的產品這是我們要表達或要講的這個部分也希望大家都可以共同支持來我們請部長第一點就是說這個從作戰需求的面來講這7艘是經過海警評估這第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[1071].start |
36092.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[1071].end |
36112.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[1071].text |
第二點就是說我們跟臺船之間呢如果說今天這個預算有通過的話臺船本身他自己會自己來用自我的資金他會先來付出比如說他可以先做維持住船段的那個部分的製造人才因為那表示你有政府有這個決心通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[1072].start |
36114.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[1072].end |
36131.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1072].text |
不然的話他人會流失出去這個是第二點那第三點就是剛剛講合約合約的部分我們會注意到就是說因為畢竟這個是逐年編列那到底是如何那我想這個部分合約的相關的責任我們會來進一步的釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[1073].start |
36133.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[1073].end |
36156.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[1073].text |
那跟次合約商的這個部分在今天通過的話那裝備的次合約商他們當然也比較有這個信心說我們有一個這個決心來做那這個維持住這個次合約商的這個部分所以還是在這個部分總體來講還是希望就是說各位能夠支持那因為這個是年度預算所以我想我們還是會每年的提年度預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[1074].start |
36156.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[1074].end |
36158.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[1074].text |
7點半回來我們今天要處理到 |
| transcript.whisperx[1075].start |
36183.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[1075].end |
36184.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[1075].text |
7點回來我們今天處理到空軍結束明天再繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[1076].start |
36335.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[1076].end |
36335.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[1076].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1077].start |
36402.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[1077].end |
36404.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[1077].text |
。（ |
| transcript.whisperx[1078].start |
37572.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[1078].end |
37572.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[1078].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1079].start |
37841.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[1079].end |
37866.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[1079].text |
現在晚上9點我們恢復開會我看到19了謝謝各位記者提醒現在是7點我們按照剛剛宣告的我們恢復開會但開會之前剛才我有一些問題請教顧立雄部長特別剛剛陳永康委員有提到的你一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[1080].start |
37867.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[1080].end |
37881.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[1080].text |
7台稀燒潛艦14年的跨距有太多不可掌握因素那這裡面可能有一些誤解我們請顧立雄部長來有關這個部分的問題是不是來做一個摘要的說明來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1081].start |
37884.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[1081].end |
37908.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[1081].text |
大概我們本來就是232分階段籌建所以我們希望就是說確實做成這個我們需要7艘的但是我們跟台船的簽約是分階段籌建也就是說先跟他簽兩艘所以簽約是兩艘不是7艘明年的話應該是簽兩艘的所以金額也不是2800多億嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1082].start |
37910.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[1082].end |
37925.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[1082].text |
對但是我們希望能夠這個確定是7艘的一個戰力的需求作戰的需求戰力我們所需要的這個作戰需求然後用232分階段籌建的方式來做這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1083].start |
37926.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[1083].end |
37941.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[1083].text |
這部分我們在第二輪的時候我覺得資訊充分的揭露委員可以理性的來討論以國家的利益為重那剛才顧部長的說明我再補充我再復述一下就是說我們潛艦國造的後續7艘艦我們戰力的規劃是需要7艘 |
| transcript.whisperx[1084].start |
37945.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[1084].end |
37971.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[1084].text |
但是我們賴清德總統已經決定不用特別預算所以他不會一個包裹他是232的籌貨方式所以明年跟臺船的簽約是兩艘不是一次簽7艘兩艘的價錢兩艘的期程那當然後續三艘有年份的增加之後經費會有所變動還是都要送預算來到我們立法院審查不會發生說 |
| transcript.whisperx[1085].start |
37973.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[1085].end |
37986.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[1085].text |
2800億那過了14年後到底夠不夠我覺得那個沒有人可以掌握了這個訊息蓋城永康委員關切的部分也請相關的幕僚轉達那我們接下來恢復到剛才的第幾案272嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1086].start |
37990.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[1086].end |
37996.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[1086].text |
272-275為快速不雷停提案委員為林毅君委員、黃嵐委員、薛浩鑫委員及馬鞍俊委員以完整說明建行委員同意併案凍結一議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1087].start |
38012.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[1087].end |
38012.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[1087].text |
馬委員同意這數額嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1088].start |
38031.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[1088].end |
38038.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[1088].text |
主要的部分是因為快速部雷霆後續建海軍在106到110年的時候編了9億1777萬那是籌建4艘每一艘大概2億3000多萬那現在114年從明年開始114到116還要再籌購6艘比之前還要多可是編了18億672萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1089].start |
38057.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[1089].end |
38070.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[1089].text |
現在每一艘變成3億多所以它光是三年的時間它經費大概也暴增了7千多萬所以就這個部分我們還是覺得它每一艘就多7千多萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1090].start |
38077.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[1090].end |
38095.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[1090].text |
所以如果我們的作戰需求到底是要幾艘然後我們的建案模式是什麼因為你剛開始4艘那你現在做完以後又要6艘然後你的人從哪裡來我們剛剛也提到你不管造了那麼多的船 |
| transcript.whisperx[1091].start |
38095.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1091].end |
38096.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[1091].text |
國防部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[1092].start |
38114.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[1092].end |
38115.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[1092].text |
276案到278案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1093].start |
38141.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[1093].end |
38147.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[1093].text |
我們智慧警監是不是跟各位同仁我們大家討論出一個原則那後續就比較好處理了智慧警監各軍種是不是就是動10% |
| transcript.whisperx[1094].start |
38167.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[1094].end |
38182.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[1094].text |
OK嗎好那個智慧警監的部分待會空軍不知道有沒有國防部有沒有有的話我們就是捅動10%會不會造成自愛難行的部分沒有的話我們有關智慧警監就是捅動預算的10%那276到278案呢不是這個已經過去這個是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[1095].start |
38194.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[1095].end |
38218.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[1095].text |
我們以林益君委員的提案為主提案並案並案凍結10%然後以這個書面報告經同意後實的凍結好接下來279到281來請說明279到281為監偵型的無人機提案委員林益君委員、華倫委員及馬文君委員請建行委員同意並案凍結5000萬元經書面報告之後實的凍結請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[1096].start |
38233.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[1096].end |
38252.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[1096].text |
馬文君委員提案為主提案並案凍結五千萬元書面報告經同意後使得動之282283282283為仁溪市短程防空飛彈提案委員為徐曉勳為馬文君委員建請委員同意並案凍結一億元書面報告使得動之請委員知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[1097].start |
38256.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[1097].end |
38256.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[1097].text |
謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1098].start |
38259.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[1098].end |
38262.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[1098].text |
282、283案以283案為主提案凍結1億書面報告經同意後使得凍支284案提案委員不在我們就不予處理再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1099].start |
38286.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[1099].end |
38290.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[1099].text |
285-286案請說明285-286為採購及軍事作業費提案為馬雲軍委員建請委員同意併案凍結500萬元順便報告使得動資卿委員知道馬委員285-286對作業維持費採購作業費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1100].start |
38312.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[1100].end |
38338.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[1100].text |
285的部分是針對它的出席費律師的出席費現在好像要求每一個案子是每一個案子它為什麼不是比如說軍總會它是每一個案子都要請一個法律顧問它是每小時計算可是有些人一次5000元然後也有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1101].start |
38345.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[1101].end |
38349.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[1101].text |
法律顧問真的每個律師的行情不一樣我是建議國軍這邊我們顧立雄律師就知道他最貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[1102].start |
38356.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[1102].end |
38373.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[1102].text |
所以部長應該稍微分身就把他統籌因為他現在的問題都是一致性的如果以你的專業然後把他定出一個標準讓那些（你要他剝削前童業就對了不用不用不用特別那個陳永康委員他沒那麼便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[1103].start |
38382.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[1103].end |
38384.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[1103].text |
他的那個塔型吊車要兩輛6億那新式港琴拖船要9億 |
| transcript.whisperx[1104].start |
38406.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[1104].end |
38419.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[1104].text |
6千多萬286因為兩岸並安凍結嘛對這個部分他準備要在120年到125年要進行第二階段要買後面的5艘他一延就延10年獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[1105].start |
38422.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[1105].end |
38422.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[1105].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1106].start |
38447.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[1106].end |
38463.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[1106].text |
這個部分還分階段他還一次只能買兩艘到底是什麼原因不知道所以他的起始年我們一旦同意做了我們他編的錢很少像他編3700多而已可是總共要十幾億這個都還是在國造嗎其實如果10年他都沒有時間幫你造那這個又不是什麼高技術層次的東西我們真的又需要的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[1107].start |
38473.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[1107].end |
38491.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[1107].text |
我個人是覺得適度的對外採購因為造船業是全球不景氣很簡單說明一下因為原先我們對於這個單價的一個編案當初是過低過低我們一直沒有讓他找到合理的價錢去用那後來我們這次也在部長指導下我們做一個整理我們也做一個究責 |
| transcript.whisperx[1108].start |
38492.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[1108].end |
38492.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[1108].text |
285、286並按凍結500萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支287到289 |
| transcript.whisperx[1109].start |
38518.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[1109].end |
38539.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[1109].text |
以286為主題案他有五百萬的案287到289這個是不是也是脫船對也是脫船是來請說明287到289為新式港船港式脫船的這個這個構置提案委員陳永康委員林義軍委員及黃康睿委員建議委員同意併案凍結36萬3000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1110].start |
38542.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[1110].end |
38568.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[1110].text |
提出書面報告實得動之信委員知道沒意見了我們287、289並案凍結363,000元以陳永康委員的287案為主提案然後書面報告後實得動之接下來290290是海洋監測能量提升案提案為馬文君委員貨員同意凍結1億元提出書面報告實得動之信委員知道來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1111].start |
38572.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[1111].end |
38575.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[1111].text |
現在這個是從110年到119年全案50億那可是在這個預算書上面也沒有揭露工作的細項到底要提升什麼然後你只寫海洋建增能量整體提升案那還有包括工程裝備性能等其實這些領域放那個裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1112].start |
38596.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[1112].end |
38619.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[1112].text |
它是屬於我們雷達站的雷型整合還有一個修繕這樣好不好因為凍結一億進口算大啦你們書面報告詳細列出那個委員詢問的部分沒有可是因為它全案是50億啊所以我們還是希望它去說明清楚比較因為到現在目前為止他們並不清楚然後每年的進度也不知道怎麼樣不管期程也不知道怎麼樣一億對他們也沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[1113].start |
38622.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[1113].end |
38625.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1113].text |
291-292為魚叉飛彈的海岸防衛系統提案委員馬文俊委員及黃仁委員建議委員同意並案凍結5000萬提出書面報告使得凍結請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[1114].start |
38653.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[1114].end |
38671.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[1114].text |
馬偉沒問題我們希望廠商不要有問題因為之前發生的事希望現在在執行不要再有問題不然萬一裝備來了工程還沒蓋好這也是很麻煩其實要建立一些有問題的太俗機制這個車子才100輛來291到292 |
| transcript.whisperx[1115].start |
38676.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[1115].end |
38679.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1115].text |
293-294為左營二港口的擴建工程提案委員黃仁基、王定穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1116].start |
38695.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[1116].end |
38703.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[1116].text |
建委員同意併案凍結兩百萬提出書面報告使得凍資請委員指導同意凍結兩百萬那書面報告使得凍資這個是294案再來295案請說明295案為金門烏丘碼頭的擴建案提案委員馬文君委員或委員同意預算照例免疫凍結請委員指導馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1117].start |
38721.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[1117].end |
38724.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1117].text |
296到297請說明296到297為零元巴廠的整建工程以及左營蘇澳的基隆救火毒漏廠提案為馬雲軍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1118].start |
38738.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[1118].end |
38745.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[1118].text |
這個案子以296的部分或委員同意3減117萬科目自行調整第297案凍結1000萬提出書面報告時的凍結請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[1119].start |
38754.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[1119].end |
38776.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[1119].text |
296這個也是一開始他標語款就直接用到那個管制預算就把它用掉了他不是回到國庫所以這個部分我們也是希望這個他已經用掉了所以我們前列100多可是不應該是這樣子的使用方式因為已經很多案子另外就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1120].start |
38779.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[1120].end |
38794.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[1120].text |
297的部分這個全案18億他從111年到115年那這個部分也招111年就招標了可是拖了近三年通通沒有進度這個也是很離譜目前已經在對他的那個工程的部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1121].start |
38803.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[1121].end |
38813.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[1121].text |
還沒有左營已經在做然後蘇澳跟基隆的部分現在還在做一個西部的位置調整這個後面會把整個你能夠位置調整表示你標出去要不然你要跟誰調 |
| transcript.whisperx[1122].start |
38814.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[1122].end |
38816.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[1122].text |
296案簡列117萬科目執行調整297案凍結1000萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支接下來298案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1123].start |
38838.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[1123].end |
38853.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[1123].text |
委員不在我們不予處理來再來299案299案為載能公務車的籌補提案委員馬文君委員或委員同意凍結300萬元提出出秘密報告時的動作請委員知道這跟剛剛的案子一樣因為他就買車的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1124].start |
38856.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[1124].end |
38882.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[1124].text |
二九九案凍結三百萬書面報告後使得凍支來 第三百案三百萬國軍後備部隊未勤裝備的整備提案為馬雲軍委員或委員同意凍結四百三十五三千元書面報告後使得凍支請委員知道凍結一成是不是四百三十五我們就寫四百三十五萬整數來 三百案凍結四百三十五萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1125].start |
38884.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[1125].end |
38911.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[1125].text |
順便報告後時的動資不過這個部分主席我補充一下因為像他這個部分他都是買電子類的產品你都是放在庫房電子類的產品其實很容易壞你擺著你沒有用他就是擺到壞所以像這個部分我們剛剛其實也有提到就是這些不管是他的那個醫務所醫務所裡面其實也都有救護車然後你在裝備旅其實也有買那應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[1126].start |
38913.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[1126].end |
38919.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[1126].text |
三百零一到三百零二海軍關校基礎設施的設施提案委員、華龍委員及馬雲軍委員建請委員同意併案凍結一百萬元提出順便報告使得凍結請委員指導馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1127].start |
38943.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[1127].end |
38943.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[1127].text |
都用在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[1128].start |
38955.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[1128].end |
38978.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[1128].text |
他用的有些是教室的一個用在學生身上我們大概都會支持教學設置跟硬體跟中央控制系統那是現在啦對那之前為什麼現在他你如果看到照片會覺得那個是學校嗎那所以為什麼過去都沒有在需要的時候其實大家都有去看過啊照理說他有需要的時候就應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[1129].start |
38979.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[1129].end |
38982.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[1129].text |
三百零三案到三百零五案三百零三到三百零五為環保設施維護天安委陳冠廷委員、黃仁委員、黃安君委員、建集委員同意併案凍結一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[1130].start |
39011.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[1130].end |
39035.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[1130].text |
請委員指導來委員有沒有問題來陳冠廷委員我這邊是第一個就是說你這個裡面的移除計劃要找專家不要白花錢花白錢然後到時候又沒有每一個省出來的錢都可以增強我們其他的實戰的國防預算那再來就是說我自己是同意就是只是改動200萬就好了等一下我們病案凍結1000我來分配好來請馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1131].start |
39038.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[1131].end |
39041.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[1131].text |
在恆春的部分他環保業務全案那時候其經111到115他就編了6億那在生物多樣從114到117又編了1億2可是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1132].start |
39065.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[1132].end |
39068.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[1132].text |
生物多樣性的防治工作其實在113年它已經執行完畢了然後現在又有什麼強勢外來入侵然後要把它移出防治的部分你又重新113已經執行完畢114到117右邊的112所以你大概就這個部分好像也沒完沒了你銀河灣移除以後也種植了原生種可是又可能要再做其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1133].start |
39094.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[1133].end |
39097.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[1133].text |
我覺得這樣子好像在整個環保的處理上面好像也有很多問題而且不斷不斷編高額的預算在處理這樣好像也不對所以這個部分也希望把它說明清楚以後再予以解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[1134].start |
39114.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[1134].end |
39139.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[1134].text |
三百零三案到三百零五案以陳冠廷委員的提案為主提案並案凍結一千萬素面報告後使得凍之經同意另外徐曉新委員的兩百七十四案改組決議另外徐曉新委員的兩百七十七案、兩百八十二、兩百八十三我們剛才處理的方式跟他寫的內容是一樣284、307他同意照列但其他委員有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[1135].start |
39141.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[1135].end |
39151.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[1135].text |
有關海軍的部分處理完畢除第二輪的部分我們到第二輪再來處理現在進行306案空軍的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1136].start |
39156.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[1136].end |
39173.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[1136].text |
各位委員好接下來由空軍向各位委員我先說明306案是第306案為馬文君委員針對時政作業114年新增相關需求仍需澄清以副委員辦公室說明經同意預算照列恭請委員指導來馬委員同意照列嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1137].start |
39177.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[1137].end |
39178.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[1137].text |
三百零八案為馬文君委員針對案管作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[1138].start |
39193.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[1138].end |
39212.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[1138].text |
仍有疑問．以副委員辦公室說明．經同意預算照列．恭喜委員知道馬委員同意照列好308案同意照列來309案第309案為馬榮勛委員．針對政戰綜合作業．仍有疑問．以副委員辦公室說明．經同意預算照列．恭喜委員知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[1139].start |
39213.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[1139].end |
39215.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[1139].text |
同意照列310案到312案請說明第310案到312案為馬文君委員及王定宇委員針對教育訓練費仍有疑問均以提供說明資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[1140].start |
39232.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[1140].end |
39239.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[1140].text |
第301案竟同意免予刪減310案第310案竟同意免予刪減凍結金額200萬元提出書面報告後值得動之第311案竟同意免予凍結下修刪減金額為100萬元科目自行調整第312案竟同意預算照列恭請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[1141].start |
39258.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[1141].end |
39263.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1141].text |
馬委員我用你的311案減列100萬用我的案子來凍結好了好不好好我先答完那你說313到312案以311案馬文君委員提案減列100萬科目自行調整凍結案以312案王定宇委員提案凍結200萬書面報告後使得凍支來請馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1142].start |
39290.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[1142].end |
39306.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[1142].text |
針對310案的部分因為這個是要進行雙語進修那我們空軍照理來說軍購回來的飛機他大概也都是英文的所以其實飛行員他的英文能力基本上應該不差 |
| transcript.whisperx[1143].start |
39308.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[1143].end |
39311.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[1143].text |
維保人員也是都是修軍購的這些回來的飛機英文應該也還可以所以我們到底是哪一類人員需要進修在空軍說明的時候是說112年已經取得英語檢定證照的只佔了12%而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[1144].start |
39328.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[1144].end |
39329.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[1144].text |
你那個進修是為了ECO嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1145].start |
39349.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[1145].end |
39366.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[1145].text |
對 是提升所有人的英文能力因為我們岡山都會派到各聯隊有ECL音訊小組是為了接裝去AIT考試的這個是為了那個嗎對 就是各部隊普遍的人員把英文提升那又是另外一件事了ECL授訊是要跳過來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1146].start |
39367.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[1146].end |
39395.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[1146].text |
他現在是普遍的普遍的對是針對全軍各單位的大家說英語好不錯來這個是剛才是到312嘛現在處理313到314案請說明第313到314案為馬文君委員針對作戰綜合作業114年新增需求仍有疑問已經赴委員辦公室說明經同意預算照列恭請委員指導來馬文君照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[1147].start |
39396.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[1147].end |
39404.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[1147].text |
好313、314同意照列來315到317案315到317案為馬文君委員及黃榮委員針對訓練綜合作業仍有疑問軍委副委員辦公室說明第315案經同意預算照列第316案經同意免於凍結3減200萬元科目自行調整好沒關係317就不處理是我們3 |
| transcript.whisperx[1148].start |
39424.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[1148].end |
39426.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[1148].text |
315案預算照列316案馬委員同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[1149].start |
39432.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[1149].end |
39438.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[1149].text |
剪列200萬剪列200萬元科目自行調整317案就不予處理這個部分我們剪列是因為預算編的不太合理我們工作部地下靶場維護費要編458萬可是這個靶場到明年7月才會過保固期所以它在保固期間把它編這個預算是不合理所以剪的那個金額是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[1150].start |
39460.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[1150].end |
39476.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[1150].text |
第三百一十八案為馬文君委員．針對國軍設置太陽光電設備．應爭取列為動長單位．以副委員辦公室說明．經同意預算照列．恭請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[1151].start |
39481.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1151].end |
39503.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[1151].text |
同意照列好318案同意照列來319案到321案請說明第319案到321案委馬文君委員針對通信電子與資訊管理仍有疑問以副委員辦公室說明懇請同意併案凍結3000萬元提出書面報告後時得動之恭請委員指導馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1152].start |
39507.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[1152].end |
39521.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[1152].text |
三一九的部分這個是設太陽能因為我們所有的很多我們的不管是學校也好就是國軍很多的單位其實都有失設太陽能可是當時我們談的條件事實上都不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1153].start |
39524.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[1153].end |
39534.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[1153].text |
在回饋的部分其實也很少可是你現在比較大的問題是我們還被列入在台電我們是列入大戶所以我們調漲的經費非常高那你現在用太陽能你有很多要幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[1154].start |
39543.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[1154].end |
39547.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[1154].text |
因為太陽能它如果賣給台電越多是廠商賺走了可是我們用的電也越高我們就要交更多給台電我覺得這是非常不合理的對我們整個國軍還有國防部我們支出的電費真的是太高那空軍剛剛我們講那個海軍的時候他大概都是6億甚至編到8億多那空軍是從8億多已經編到明年11億了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1155].start |
39573.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[1155].end |
39574.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[1155].text |
另外還有後面的這個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1156].start |
39599.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[1156].end |
39603.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[1156].text |
安於後勤這可惜是衛星的部分這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1157].start |
39607.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[1157].end |
39626.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[1157].text |
以前都是中科院做的是商售那他資料建置以後他也不能改所以感覺上是不是有變相的被綁標的問題因為他一旦做了前面以後後面全部是他做的而且包括金額也都是由他們定這個是不是合理這個要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[1158].start |
39633.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[1158].end |
39639.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[1158].text |
說明報告裏面要比較詳細的一個做報告319案、320案、321案並案凍結3000萬元書面報告請涵蓋委員不管是書面或者口頭詢問的部分那經同意後時得凍支322案到327案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1159].start |
39657.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[1159].end |
39684.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[1159].text |
用那個3000萬的那個321以321為主案並案處理來現在並案處理322到327請說明第322案到327案為馬文軍委員陳冠廷委員林一軍委員以及陳永康委員針對軍事單位裝備零附件構置與保修預算仍有疑問軍委副委員辦公室說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1160].start |
39684.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[1160].end |
39696.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[1160].text |
其中馬文君委員針對第322案關切F-16型機鳳眼徵兆夾傷場級修物能量案經同意免於凍結下修三減金額為1000萬元科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[1161].start |
39701.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[1161].end |
39708.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[1161].text |
另外第323案馬洪君委員針對永營高校機（發動機能量籌建採購案編列預算9億餘元（仍有疑問（經同意免予刪減（凍結金額為9000萬元（第324案到326案（懇請委員同意併案（並第323案凍結（提出書面報告後（使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[1162].start |
39726.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[1162].end |
39748.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[1162].text |
最後第327案經同意預算照列恭喜委員知道好各位委員諾別意見我來分配一下凍結數了因為這金額蠻大的第一個322案簡列1000萬元科目自行調整這個馬文君委員的提案另外陳冠廷委員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1163].start |
39754.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[1163].end |
39783.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[1163].text |
看各位委員同事的意見我們是不是陳冠廷委員、林毅君委員、陳永康委員分別凍結一千萬然後三位凍結一千萬之後的六千萬在323案由馬文君委員的凍結經同意後使人鬥志有九千嘛我把三千萬分配出去我再重新講一次322案簡列一千萬元科目執行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[1164].start |
39784.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[1164].end |
39799.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[1164].text |
三百二十三案凍結六千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支三百二十四案凍結一千萬元書面報告後使得凍支因為我把同意壓在上面一樣然後再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1165].start |
39800.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[1165].end |
39815.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[1165].text |
三百二十五、三百二十六號案並案凍結一千萬元林毅君委員提案書面報告後使得凍支三百二十七案陳永康委員提案凍結一千萬元書面報告後使得凍支好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1166].start |
39817.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[1166].end |
39837.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[1166].text |
馬委員請我稍微說明一下323就這個部分永英高校機它每一架都有配備兩具的發動機那這個部分其實是韓翔執行的這發動機的籌補能量那對我們來說其實這也是我們自己的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[1167].start |
39838.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[1167].end |
39861.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[1167].text |
不過他從113年到116年全案21億他是兩年半的合約可是預算在113年12月就簽了然後飛機其實也還沒有交齊所以我們對這個預算希望他們可以說明更詳細然後也可以提出比較完整的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[1168].start |
39861.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[1168].end |
39886.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[1168].text |
那同意凍結OK好那個書面報告就請注意這些詢問的部分接下來處理329案328案提案委員不在我們不予處理329請說明第329案為馬文君委員針對後勤補給資源預算仍有疑問以副委員辦公室說明經同意預算照列公請委員知道來馬委員OK嗎好329同意照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[1169].start |
39891.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[1169].end |
39913.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1169].text |
來再來330案到332案請說明第330案到332案為林玉君委員、黃仁委員以及馬文君委員關切新式高校機交機進度均與副委員辦公室說明懇請同意並案凍結5億元提出書面報告後使得凍資恭請委員知道來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1170].start |
39917.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[1170].end |
39930.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[1170].text |
這一個部分他就是進度落後了啦Honeywell在12月的時候有來臺有來臺灣他只是說明策進的作為可是沒有辦法保證他是不是可以如期的去繳交 |
| transcript.whisperx[1171].start |
39932.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[1171].end |
39949.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[1171].text |
所以在這個部分我們凍結5億那是有這案嗎對沒錯好那個我來做預算分配了330案林益君召委的提案凍結1000萬元書面報告後使得凍支馬文君委員的332案凍結4億9千萬元書面報告經同意後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[1172].start |
39958.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[1172].end |
39981.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[1172].text |
好接下來處理333到334請說明第333案、334案為馬文君委員以及林益君委員關切愛二性能提升以及採購愛三執行情形據與副委員辦公室說明懇請同意並案凍結五議員提出書面報告後時的凍結五議員知道OK來委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[1173].start |
39987.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[1173].end |
39993.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[1173].text |
這個部分因為113年222原先58億5000多萬那明年發酵素下修的額度高達24億3000多萬所以他編列34億不過我們還是把金額全部挪到最後一年那萬一你114年交不出來該給的東西那我們之前還有很多包括我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1174].start |
40016.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[1174].end |
40016.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[1174].text |
5億我來處理一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1175].start |
40034.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[1175].end |
40062.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[1175].text |
林毅軍委員凍結五千萬書面報告後使得凍資馬文軍委員凍結四億五千萬書面報告經同意後使得凍資本席跟林楚英委員確認一下你剛才我們移到二輪的第69案你同意改成主決議那我二輪就不處理了好原69案請醫生們加注69案改主決議我們在第二輪的話這個案子把它拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1176].start |
40065.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[1176].end |
40093.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[1176].text |
好接下來到第幾案了335嘛來335、336請說明第335案、336案為王定宇委員以及馬文勛委員關切F16AB型戰機性能提升飛彈交運時程以副委員辦公室說明懇請同意併案凍結一千萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資恭請委員指導來馬委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[1177].start |
40096.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[1177].end |
40102.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[1177].text |
這一個部分因為遠距遙攻飛彈它其實基本上不會運到台灣那原來說114年要給那現在可能又說要到115年我們也看不到然後我們也不知道它到底會這是那個JSOW對所以我們還是凍結然後把後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1178].start |
40124.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[1178].end |
40125.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[1178].text |
335案王定宇委員提案凍結200萬書面報告後使得凍資336案馬文君委員提案凍結800萬書面報告後竟同意使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[1179].start |
40141.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[1179].end |
40159.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[1179].text |
好接下來337到338請說明第337到338案為林郁君委員以及馬文君委員關切兼增刑污染機案均與副委員辦公室說明懇請同意併案凍結原編列預算十分之一也就是900 |
| transcript.whisperx[1180].start |
40160.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[1180].end |
40162.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[1180].text |
237案、338案以林毅君委員的337案為主題案並案凍結10%書面報告經同意後,使得凍支好,再來處理339案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1181].start |
40177.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[1181].end |
40191.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[1181].text |
第339案為馬文君委員關切F16型機輕式徵兆夾艙執行情形以副委員辦公室說明經同意預算照列公請委員知道來馬委員同意照列好339案同意照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[1182].start |
40193.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[1182].end |
40201.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1182].text |
三百四十案到三百四十二案請說明三百四十案到三百四十二案這個不處理了我們情監爭鬥一樣統動10%這個不用討論了以林毅君委員的提案為主題案並案凍結10%書面報告經同意後使得凍之這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1183].start |
40213.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[1183].end |
40215.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[1183].text |
第三四三三四四案為馬文君委員及黃仁委員關切F16型機遠距精準武器籌購案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1184].start |
40244.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[1184].end |
40259.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1184].text |
是否能依計劃期程執行以及工程設施等相關問題（仍有疑問（局理副委員辦公室說明（懇請同意併案凍結原編列預算十分之一（提出書面報告後（使得凍結公請委員指揮這個剛才有討論過類似的來343案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1185].start |
40265.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[1185].end |
40272.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[1185].text |
凍結預算數的10%書面報告經同意後使得凍支三四四案不予處理接下來是345案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1186].start |
40294.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[1186].end |
40295.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[1186].text |
這個部分它包含了工程的內容我們花了非常高的預算因為這個大概花了160幾億買了試駕的這個高高空無人機可是我們看它的工程內容裡面它一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1187].start |
40317.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[1187].end |
40325.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[1187].text |
整地工廠、辦公室、修護機棚、導控中心、衛星車停放區、滑行道、停機坪 |
| transcript.whisperx[1188].start |
40339.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[1188].end |
40356.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[1188].text |
我想要請教的是這每一架高達40幾億的價值的四架無人機我們剛剛看的工程專管公司設計的工程內容裡面完全沒有可以它的容身之處我們為了這個去編了100多億可是現在這最貴的卻不知道放在哪裡這是合理的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1189].start |
40365.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[1189].end |
40365.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[1189].text |
委員（ |
| transcript.whisperx[1190].start |
40381.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[1190].end |
40386.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[1190].text |
一次會掛掉4台而且你都已經編了工程的經費之前我們也有提到包括一些可能要停放飛機的不管F16或者其他的他都是價值非常高我們現在所有最貴的大概就飛機結果我們在工程的新建而且都新建的都沒有去設計這樣子的一個停放的空間我覺得這個是比較嚴重的他應該要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[1191].start |
40410.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[1191].end |
40429.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[1191].text |
馬委員的凍結5億其實是希望你把錢花在對的地方所以你們這個345案凍結5億書面報告請包含存放存放還有安全的考量分散存放存活率的問題存放的考量書面報告經同意後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[1192].start |
40430.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[1192].end |
40434.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[1192].text |
我再補充一下好不好因為部長也在這裡就是我們剛剛講的這個部分真的如果在對專管可以要求的時候我們應該怎麼要求請部長就這個部分可以下去看看去檢視看看因為你這麼貴的無人機試駕然後你那個修護棚廠它是開放的像我們在替黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[1193].start |
40452.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[1193].end |
40454.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[1193].text |
這部分請部長再多於這個部分可以去檢視看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1194].start |
40482.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[1194].end |
40485.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[1194].text |
徐曉欣委員提案為主提案並按凍結10%書面報告經同意後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[1195].start |
40505.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[1195].end |
40512.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[1195].text |
好接下來是348到349案那個處理349就好來請說明第349案為馬文君委員關切F16Block拐動行跡地或識別器尋達密碼機測試已經截角情形已經赴委員辦公室說明建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1196].start |
40529.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[1196].end |
40540.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[1196].text |
凍結原編列數的十分之一提出書面報告後．得凍支恭喜委員知道馬委員因為目前還沒有測試完成他只要測試完成我們就同意這個就是349案凍結10%書面報告經同意不用經同意了書面報告後．得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[1197].start |
40549.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[1197].end |
40577.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[1197].text |
你叫測試完成他就OK了好這個10%不用請同意的來350案到351案來先就351案說明第351案為馬文君委員關切新式高校機性能科目軌跡噴煙裝置執行進度已經赴委員辦公室說明凍結500萬元提出書面報告後使得凍之恭請委員指導來提案委員OK齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[1198].start |
40579.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[1198].end |
40580.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[1198].text |
三百五十二到三百五十三案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1199].start |
40596.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[1199].end |
40618.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[1199].text |
三五二到三五三案為零一居委員及馬文群委員關切F16ブラック拐動型機作戰資源夾艙及武器彈藥籌購案採購項目數量以及工程設施據與副委員辦公室說明懇請同意併案凍結三千萬元提出書面報告後時的動資恭喜委員知道來有沒有問題這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1200].start |
40624.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[1200].end |
40632.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[1200].text |
三五二三五三三五三是我的他目前的進度來因為這個是臺東基準彈藥的一個彈庫嘛他是怎麼設計的然後有沒有依循美軍的既定規範這個部分我們也要請部長也因為反正這些都是比較都是工程的都是工程之前發生的我們希望他不要再發生那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[1201].start |
40648.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[1201].end |
40648.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[1201].text |
秦柏市長﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[1202].start |
40666.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[1202].end |
40690.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[1202].text |
三百五十二、三百五十三案以馬文君委員的提案為主題案並案凍結三千萬元書面報告經同意後使得動之三五四第三百五十四案為馬文君委員針對TPS、FPS、11軌雷達性能提升案偽中科院製作機動輔具仍需成名以副委員辦公室說明經同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[1203].start |
40692.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[1203].end |
40716.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[1203].text |
凍結2000萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資那就照案通過嘛沒有啦你凍結你提案就是2000凍結2000萬這個部分我們凍結的原因是因為他美國的型號其實都是固定的他不想拼裝所以他本來因為是固定的我們要把它做成能跑的就是可以移動的所以美國大概原廠也不願意做就委有中科院那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[1204].start |
40718.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[1204].end |
40723.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[1204].text |
這個部分通常美國大概不太會願意更改這會不會影響到雷達的安全性我們能不能保證因為國外的軍品他當在這個過程當中其實他都經過至少上萬次的這些驗測然後可以達到他的要求那這個部分我們編列的預算也都不少我們希望可以更審慎的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[1205].start |
40746.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[1205].end |
40747.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[1205].text |
三百五十五案為馬雲軍委員關切採購及外購軍品作業費 |
| transcript.whisperx[1206].start |
40764.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[1206].end |
40791.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[1206].text |
以副委員辦公室說明經同意預算照列恭喜委員知道同意照列好 355案這個暫不處理同意照列來356案到359案CCK的來請說明第356案到359案為陳永康委員林英鈞委員以及王定宇委員關切青玄崗基地防護機庫建構是否滿足作戰需求均與副委員辦公室說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1207].start |
40792.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[1207].end |
40818.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[1207].text |
第356案、359案經同意預算照列第357案、358案經同意改列組決議公請委員知道358嘛來等一下你356、359同意照列嘛356、359同意照列然後358改組決議黃仁委員在講黃仁委員然後林益君委員的呢357呢也是改列組決議改列組決議啦改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1208].start |
40821.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[1208].end |
40824.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[1208].text |
第360案及361案為毛軍委員以及陳冠廷委員關切臺東基地設施興建工程工程進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[1209].start |
40851.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[1209].end |
40859.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[1209].text |
以復委員辦公室說明（經同意並按凍結一議員提出說明報告後（使得凍支公請委員知道這個部分他是台東的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1210].start |
40869.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[1210].end |
40885.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[1210].text |
的設施新建工程這個從110年就已經發包了專管110年現在都已經要114年了他拖了很長的時間而且這個是要放F16V的到現在我們連第二階段的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1211].start |
40886.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[1211].end |
40889.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[1211].text |
我們一直說這個是我們非常重要的一個軍事設施或者我們的軍事裝備可是顯然我們的做法完全沒有辦法讓大家覺得是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1212].start |
40915.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[1212].end |
40939.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[1212].text |
那現在又要延兩年要延到117年那你萬一飛機回來的時候他要怎麼放今天他如果可以依照美軍紀令下去設計因為你根本沒有做過那些專管公司他根本對這些不了解的他做一般的工程來設計我們這些這麼重要的一個軍事設施然後都不符合我們的需求沒有符合我們的需求如果當時他用美軍紀令他連MQ9他都可以放 |
| transcript.whisperx[1213].start |
40944.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[1213].end |
40944.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[1213].text |
陳萬靜委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1214].start |
40968.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[1214].end |
40984.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[1214].text |
一句話依照美方的建議去強化規格設計保存戰力存號的錯誤不要犯兩邊這個我是建議第一個我們找的PCM專案管理或者是我們設計的人員到底有沒有這個經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[1215].start |
40985.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[1215].end |
41001.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[1215].text |
如果沒有這樣的經驗的話如果是軍售案尋求每方有經驗的技術協助學一次培養我們自己的量能否則就自己在那邊土法煉鋼一直研或者造出來的東西不合實用這個倒不如一次把它學對來了這個給國防部建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[1216].start |
41007.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[1216].end |
41018.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[1216].text |
三百六十案到三百六十一案以馬文君委員的提案為主提案並案凍結一議書面報告經同意後使得凍之接下來三百六十二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1217].start |
41018.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[1217].end |
41041.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[1217].text |
第362案為馬文君委員關切岡山基地設施興建工程後續工作項目以及進度及預算調整致用情形已經赴委員辦公室說明經同意改列組決議恭喜委員知道來馬委員同意改列組決議看了那麼久只有這個是進度超前不知道為什麼有一個進度超前的我不知道那這應該給你放煙火 |
| transcript.whisperx[1218].start |
41044.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[1218].end |
41067.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[1218].text |
不過你們一連對岡山那邊有另外一個工程的包商有沒有做一做跑路了下面的連保全也沒拿到錢買剛才的沒領到錢那個其實你們真的要申請他標到你們兩三個案子結果都辦公啊所以有時候這些廠商計分計等級真的不好的就不要用了現在是買方市場了啦好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1219].start |
41069.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[1219].end |
41089.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[1219].text |
同意照例改組決議改組決議好363案第363案為馬文君委員關切跑滑道戰備工程專案計劃其時程以副委員辦公室說明經同意下修凍結金額為1億元提出書面報告後使得凍失恭喜委員知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[1220].start |
41090.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[1220].end |
41094.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[1220].text |
這個部分很簡單他就是進度落後可是他現在都說114年1月他飛機就能交跑滑道的進度也可以趕上因為1月我們已經審完了啦他的期程都是講在那個時候我們不知道我們到年底就可以再看一次這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[1221].start |
41107.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[1221].end |
41114.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[1221].text |
對所以可是因為這個跑滑道如果花蓮延誤臺東就會延誤因為他不能兩個同時做他一定一個在施做完了以後他才可以做另外一個所以不管哪一個延誤他都會影響到東部的戰備執行所以這個部分我們也希望可以更謹慎的去盯他的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[1222].start |
41127.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[1222].end |
41133.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[1222].text |
364案為馬文君委員針對載人公務車輛籌補計劃需求仍需澄清以副委員辦公室說明經同意下修凍結金額為原編約預算十分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[1223].start |
41150.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[1223].end |
41177.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[1223].text |
364案凍結10%書面報告竟同意後使得凍支這個前面都已經一致性的原則了來365案365案為馬文軍委員關切國軍衛生部隊未請裝備整備後續處理情形以副委員辦公室說明竟同意下修凍結金額為原編列預算10分之一這好像跟剛才都一樣的啦對另外還有一個就是說這個之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[1224].start |
41179.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[1224].end |
41179.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[1224].text |
海軍統購（ |
| transcript.whisperx[1225].start |
41195.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[1225].end |
41209.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[1225].text |
是買一樣的增加數量還是要買不一樣的不一樣內容裡面的內容有些不一樣那為什麼海軍空軍會不一樣這是看一個掉到水裡一個掉到雲裡依照依照需求單位對我是覺得你們原來統購 |
| transcript.whisperx[1226].start |
41211.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[1226].end |
41211.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[1226].text |
三百六十六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1227].start |
41228.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[1227].end |
41242.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[1227].text |
第366案為毛軍委員關切航氣學院教育設備執行項目以副委員辦公室說明經同意下修凍結金額為原編列預算十分之一提出書面報告後使得凍支公請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[1228].start |
41244.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[1228].end |
41247.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[1228].text |
三百六十七案到三百六十九案為馬雲軍委員針對環保設施維護其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[1229].start |
41263.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[1229].end |
41272.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[1229].text |
機場噪音補助人力委員案 擁有疑問以副委員辦公室說明第367、368案 懇請同意併案凍結1793萬元提出書評報告後 使得凍支第369案 經同意預算照列 恭請委員知道你說凍結1793萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[1230].start |
41285.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[1230].end |
41288.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[1230].text |
一千七百九十三萬一千七百九十三萬元我們367到369案就並案一來個案捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[1231].start |
41306.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[1231].end |
41309.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[1231].text |
以368案為主題案並按凍結1793萬元書面報告經同意後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[1232].start |
41315.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[1232].end |
41336.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[1232].text |
好 那各位同仁今天辛苦了時間是7點58分我們沒有到8點還是要不要多審一個憲兵到8點不用啦 我們今天就到這裡我們說審到空軍就審到空軍來好 那我們今天會議暫時休息明天早上9點繼續恢復繼續審查大家辛苦了 謝謝 |
| IVOD_ID |
16383 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16383 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-22 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-18T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-18T19:59:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |