| IVOD_ID |
163828 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163828 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-07T15:33:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-07T16:04:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7828e564de0d60cbd3718722b9320d44ac1daff01b5f92825d1b934e7c5b51853eccb88f554b3b0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林沛祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:33:49 - 16:04:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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主席 各位同仁午安有請卓院長跟法務部正部長麻煩再請卓院長 法務部長備詢議員好院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.915 |
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中華民國即將會面對所謂超高齡社會的嚴峻問題,因此本人必須嚴肅的指出,我們社會正在經歷歷史性的家庭結構轉型,但是我們的民法繼承篇卻仍停留在數十年前大家庭思維導致法治跟民情嚴重脫節。 |
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51.852 |
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根據最新的統計全國涉及兩人以下包括單身或頂客族的家庭佔比將近五成在主要都會區甚至過半然而我們很多單身或頂客族公民在面臨生命中期規劃時卻因現行民法第1223條第四款的兄弟姊妹特留份規定陷入財產自主權被侵害的困境即使 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.1 |
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100.773 |
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繼承人立下遺囑明確表達不願將財產分配給關係不睦長期疏遠或從無貢獻的手足法律仍強制將這些手足享有應計三分之一的特留份這種制度的設計不僅不公更是對我們公民遺屬自由的踐踏 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.014 |
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125.452 |
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身為一個立法委員本席不能接受國家法制形同懲罰選擇不孕或單身的國民所以請問院長行政院是否承認現行民法第1223條第4款以對數量龐大而且持續增長的單身跟頂客族群構成不合理的財產權利侵害 |
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126.773 |
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民法當中對於法定的繼承權人除了印記份之外他有特留份的一個設計就希望說不要因為太多的好惡把一個人所有的權利給他抹殺掉了所以配偶跟子女之間對於他的印記份特留份都有相同的一個保障兄弟姊妹之間也有個特留份的保障這是現在民法的規定跟民法的設計那我這個設計來自多年了 |
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153.573 |
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那我也想請問行政院對於保障公民遺主自由跟財產自主權的政策優先順序為何是否同意個人在沒有核心家庭成員像是子女父母之後對其財產擁有完全的處分權呢 |
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171.676 |
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185.901 |
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這當然是可以一個討論的方向但是我會更重視的是整個法律的橫平性它的穩定性如果這樣一改過之後會不會在繼承的訴訟上面會徒增很多無謂的紛爭就是等一下我們會提到那現在我請教部長 |
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187.202 |
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201.915 |
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在中央政府所掌握的家庭人口結構變遷數據上面是否支持將兄弟姊妹在現今社會結構下視為法律上必須強制保障特留份的核心家庭成員 |
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203.916 |
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這個特留份是應積分的二分之一嘛這個法定是這樣那我想這個特留份當然有想說移組的一個剛才有說保證單身跟頂客移組自由那這個是可以討論的那我想說這個特留份的話當然是保證那個繼承人 繼承權人的一個權利那是不是要保留我們認為這是可以討論的好 |
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229.468 |
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245.204 |
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法務部在嚴尼因應少子化跟高齡化社會的相關配套政策時是否會積極主張行政院加速推動所謂繼承篇的修法以使法律規範批辟現代社會的結構者現實呢 |
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247.072 |
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我想這個繼承權的這部分應急分跟特留分我想要與時俱進但我想這個我們會考慮到現在這個時代的一個需求來考慮這個要不要再做一個檢討那我想一個法律的話有它的安定性那我想要不要改還要廣納各界的意見要做怎麼樣的一個調整 |
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268.374 |
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294.637 |
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據我所了解目前修法的方向可能將研議將兄弟姊妹的特留份從三分之一微幅調降到四分之一但是我想請問院長這樣子微幅調降的比例方案是不是能夠根本解決被繼承人想完全排除兄弟姊妹的核心需求那如果我們採取這個折衷方案是否會導致繼承的爭議跟法律訴訟造成更大的社會成本呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.465 |
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這個是一體的兩面因為你保留了特留份之後被繼承人他主張怎麼樣他都必須在這法律的限制當中維護繼承權人基本的權利但如果這個拿掉會變成0跟100之間的選擇那這個當中就會出現很多遺囑是真是假或者是必須舉證更多來證明這個不公平不公平的分配是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.529 |
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349.656 |
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背棄了人的真正的意思這就是我們一剛開始在提現在頂客族跟單身族越來越多了所以如果兄弟姊妹少的話這特留份的意義他並沒有那麼嚴重我們不能預設一場兄弟姊妹少而是說他們是不是能夠對自己的遺產有絕對的自主權我們討論的重點不是在兄弟姊妹該分多少而是他們覺得兄弟姊妹不想分的時候他們必須要分這特留份那不是一種不公平嗎跟委員報告公不公平我想這個大家是可以討論的還管他的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.516 |
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376.838 |
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尤其是要給多少那個是屬於那個被繼承人的一個遺囑上的一個權如果說他的繼承是說他在生前就已經講好了但是後面我們的法律如果說沒有辦法去符合他們這些人的需求這些頂客族跟單身主權的需求如果用證語就沒有這個限制如果用生前的證語就沒有這個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.638 |
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405.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以說這就是我們等一下要講到的其實我認同所謂公民聯署上面的主張是直接刪除民法第1223條第4款那如果說行政院是不是能夠以廢除兄弟姊妹特留份為目標進行修法研議而不是說只是比例上面的微調呢這個我們必須要廣納各界的意見法律界的意見那很多民間的意見我們還要到法律界學術界的意見也是要看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
怎麼樣讓這個法律它能夠執行起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
436.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
除了這個穩定性之外他能夠在公平性上保障個人的基本權利能夠互相尊重有沒有一個時效性因為我知道說這些修法其實都是曠日廢時的我們現在是第11屆立法委員我不希望到第13屆立法委員的時候我們還在討論說那時候搞不好全國已經超過七成以上的都是單身族或頂客族或者只有毛小孩這個是有可能發生的事情尤其在高齡化社會的時候我們必須與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
437.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
461.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
老實講這句話時空背景不同對於這個修法其實是很有必要的這句話我們出去一年半之前常常聽到但是時空背景不同是這一次修法上面我們必須要重視的一點以前我們沒想到頂客族會這麼多現在的確這麼多了所以我會在這邊呼籲我們繼承的法治不應該成為現在公民財產自主權的最後一道障礙而且老實說 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
462.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們法律的責任是因為替人民提供簡便公平的途徑來實現其個人的意志而不是迫使我們公民耗費高昂的成本去尋求信託保險等專業的法律工具來規避法律規定如果這種事情發生了不但倒從我們社會資源浪費之外也凸顯了這個法規基本上沒有與時俱進本身法規是一種失能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
504.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我再強調一次超高齡社會台灣很快就會進入而我們都在其中之一我在這邊懇請我們行政院正視單身族跟頂客族群的權益以保障遺族自由為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
505.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
531.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以國際法制為借鏡我們來採取行動廢除不合時宜的兄弟姊妹特留份規定我覺得這方面來講我們來確保所有公民的財產自主權如果說家庭倫理沒有不好但是老實說與時俱進現在已經大家庭的狀況已經越來越少了如果說我們沒有辦法保證我們頂客族跟單身族他們的財產自主權我會覺得很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
533.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
剛剛院長有提到說要去廣納各界討論是否能夠行政院說至少給予一個明確的承諾跟修法時程呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果我沒有記錯民法應該是民國18年源自於民國18年開始到現在當中並沒有大幅度的修改只有微微的一些部分的修改這種大觀念的轉變是比較缺乏的當然我們必須迎合現在國際跟國家的情勢那我們可以跟外界來做一些談討到底民法要不要朝向一個大規模的觀念的改變像變革來做修正這個因為知識體大牽動的蠻多的我跟委員承諾我們就是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
做這樣的徵詢 做這樣的討論可以開始但時程我到底不敢說因為各方的意見一定會很多我會期待說至少我們這一屆開始有個起頭今天我在這個總諮詢的機會蠻難得的機會可以跟全國的民眾講說現在我們遇到超高齡社會而財產自主權尤其是遺族的自主權這件事情其實應該把它列上時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
595.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
像這樣的狀況其實已經在很多都會區已經正在發生當中那與其說一天到晚有像這方面的爭執倒不如說行政院我們現在整個政府針對這個法制可以把它完善可以把它再進化這件事拿出來做出一個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
610.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
612.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這方面如果有任何資訊麻煩跟我們辦公室也讓我們辦公室知道進度好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
634.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這部分我們在做 我們要提書面給吳銓豪再來請的是環境部的彭部長歡迎環境部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
676.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
院長 部長本席是基隆市唯一的一區區域立委因此我要向院長 部長提出最嚴肅的控訴基隆市天外天焚化爐的非灰處理爭議已經不是一個地方個案而是整個中央政府在環境政策財政夥伴關係跟市長監管上面一連串所謂系統性失靈的國家級危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
678.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
706.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
新國隆市長為了讓佔用多年的土地能夠富裕成為還給市民的公園所以為了讓基隆的廢棄物處理能夠從傳統的掩埋而升級到更環保能夠更資源化的水洗再利用技術他做出決策中意的充滿爭議的就合約然而我們的地方政府在第一線力求改變力求環保轉型在衝鋒陷陣的時候我們後面中央部會做了些什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
708.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
716.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
撤銷了補助 做事的壟斷 懲罰了革新環境部一紙公文就把原本承諾的1.8億元的水洗設施經費一筆勾銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
720.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
743.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
院長這不是中央請客地方買單嚴格講起來這應該叫中央許願地方活埋今年少了這1.8億的補助會讓基隆未來每年都必須為非灰處理額外燒掉超過3億元的預算這3億元本來可以拿來幹嘛改善基隆的交通可以來投資孩子的教育可以照顧我們的長者 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
744.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
763.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是因為現在中央部會的政策髮夾彎被市場的壟斷機制給無情的吞噬所以本席今天要求必須正視這場危機後面中央的三大不可迴避的責任第一個我想請問為什麼要去懲罰追求環保轉型的地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
764.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
786.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
根據資料過去舊合約地方政府掩埋非灰處理費每公噸只需1400元但是地方政府力求革新終止就業後新的標案得價卻一路飆漲到每公噸25000元足足暴漲近18倍這筆費用讓每年基隆市每年必須額外支出超過3億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
787.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
808.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
金融市之所以願意負擔這個短期的陣痛是因為我們有更長期的環保願景我們要推動最先進的水洗非灰再利用技術讓非灰無害化資源化而根據專業評估水洗技術落實之後每年的處理費就可以大幅度降低從3億降低到1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
810.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
825.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
然而就是在今年 基隆最需要中央支援的時候 支持的關鍵時刻我們收到一紙公文 環境部的一紙公文明白告知原承諾補助經費總84%約1.8億元的灰飛水洗設施經費確定撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
833.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
845.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那我在這邊就正式詢問我們卓院長跟彭部長當環境部大力倡導所謂資源循環零廢棄但是為什麼在基隆決心要投入先進水洗技術的關鍵時刻釋回這筆攸關成敗的1.8億補助呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
853.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
882.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
院長 如果一個地方政府為了響應中央的環保政策而去改革換來卻是中央用撤銷補助的方式來懲罰這是不是告訴全國所有縣市首長誰想改革 誰有可能就會倒大霉行政院是否認同這種懲罰式的財政措施呢是否該建立一個跨部會的協調機制來確保未來中央對地方的重大補助承諾不會再因單一部會的政策髮夾彎而輕易掉票呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
883.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
912.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
首先這並非一個懲罰我想中央地方權限要有明確的劃分是地方自治精神所應該落實的那過去中央做了很多著於補助那是在中央有財政能力的情況底下那未來中央地方如果財政像現在所行的這個財政收支劃分法中央財政能力大幅縮減的情況底下就必須跟地方來研討所謂的中央地方權限的劃分 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
912.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
936.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那這個權限發分必須要很精準請部長能不能說明這個個案到底是什麼原因報告委員 那個是明年的預計的計畫那今年其實送進來我們也並沒有說審核通過那因為我們今年財化法過後我們明年的補助給地方的預算基本上大概全部加起來只剩下六百萬能夠還額外再補助所以這個就沒有辦法再補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
936.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
956.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那我們也希望未來呢因為其實基隆的財務也有大幅顯著的提升那事實上垃圾的處理還是屬於地方的事務按照原來規則但是未來如果我們可以爭取到相關的預算當然我們很了解基隆的用心但是因為真的明年的這個財化法過後我們環境部可以給地方的預算真的是大幅度的一個刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
957.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
975.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以說傳信部撤銷這1.8億的決策依據就是因為財化法然後對於哪一條行政命令哪一條法律或是哪一次專家會議都沒有就是因為財化法報告委員其實因為我們每年就是因為財化法現在審的是現在你們送進來我們要審核的是明年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
977.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
998.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
本身就有一定的一個程序它本身也並沒有正式的合可過所以我們明年的預算因為大幅度的給地方的補助款一般性補助款也明顯的一個減少所以基本上它的優勝順序相對的就沒有辦法再補助所以這一筆1.8億的資金缺口將迫使基隆會長期被鎖定在每公噸25000元的天價處理費上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1001.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1027.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那中央就是打算讓基隆市民用自己的血汗錢去填補中央政策所畫出來的大大洞行政院對於中央跟地方在重大環保基礎上面的財政夥伴關係上面承諾就是這樣委員您大概忽略了如果照新的財劃法明年基隆市政府財源應該是有所增加的他不應該為了這1.8億就付不出來或是1.8億沒有中央的補助他就會有困難中央已經被拿掉4165億 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1029.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1056.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那基隆會因為1.8億就出發生財政困難嗎不會所以可以查一下明年基隆是明年度比114年增加73億原本114年是5.8億但是115年是到130億增加了73億財政部莊部長不好意思我還沒有請財政部上來那我只是說如果真的要扯的話那您知道說今年的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1058.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1085.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
從89億基隆被砍到剩下9億嗎您知道今年的計劃型補助款基隆從53億被砍到23億嗎今年沒有啊計劃型補助款稅務上面我是在事務會議的時候看到的所以變成是說沒錯基隆多加73億你說的應該是明年對 明年我們基隆多加73億的統售分配款但是實質上我們的一般性補助款被砍了將近80億這個就是水平分配不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1086.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1112.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以說那變成說基隆還是短短37億啊那我們今天講這1.8億是最重要是37億裡面可能最重要的一塊之一因為今年花這1.8億之後未來每年基隆就可以少花3億這是為什麼今天在這個地方這麼重要全國的議題上面我特地把這1.8億拿出來講1.8億在全國的這個預算裡面是個鳳毛麟角但是為什麼特地拿出來講因為這是有關後代的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1113.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1123.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
不好意思我還其實質詢這個是三個地方只是基隆的財政而已還有再來是有關奇怪請問財政部長對不起請回座 謝謝再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1128.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1155.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
請問為何做事市場壟斷跟惡勢的污染風險呢院長這場爭議也體現了我們國家廢棄物管理體系的兩大結構破口第一個是市場壟斷第二個是監管失靈如果在基隆的舊有的在地廠商退場之後全國的非灰處理市場高度集中單一集團幾乎掌握了全國將近九成的合約當一個攸關民生的官信事業其實處理價格在缺乏競爭下可以暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1156.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1175.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
18倍本席認為這個已經不是所謂的市場機制而是很明顯的市場失靈所以也要請問院長行政院的公平交易委員會環境部對於這樣子明顯的市場集中度跟不合理的價格飆漲有沒有啟動所謂市場壟斷或不當的聯合新聞專案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1176.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1201.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
包委員其實第一個是要源頭減量啦那其實像彰化也遇到類似的問題他們努力的源頭減量垃圾就少了大概三成那當然後面的這個非灰就顯著的一個減少那他們另外開發了額外儲存非灰的一個地方他們自己就有辦法來做解決那我相信基隆如果很努力想辦法的話也應該也可以做得到所以都是我們基隆的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1202.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1226.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對 其實這個就是需要大家自己努力解決因為大家後端的處理是很貴的源頭減量這是最重要的那另外一個是最後的如果真的沒有辦法源頭減量還是有點非灰的話原有的等於是掩埋場或許可以把它活化來處理那順便就請問一下彭部長您大力推動所謂資源化那想請問有關非灰水洗這類高風險技術中央的風險控管在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1228.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1255.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
基本上現在如果有些非灰他可以最後的再利用再處理其實有些縣市他們很努力能夠來做顯著的去化例如說像宜蘭宜蘭他把整個焚化爐他附近的場域做完整的全循環的處理我想請問一下環境部預計什麼時候可以提出所謂具體的排放標準草案排放標準針對水洗灰飛的劇毒廢水環境部預計什麼時候可以提出提出比較具體的排放標準草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1256.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1275.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這個我們現在已經有了環管署它已經有相關性的標準草案出來了但是這個其實是一個新的技術但是我們期待因為非灰水洗它還是把它變成稀釋掉那到這個地下水道的處理而已但是最重要的是說源頭的減量能夠讓這個非灰減少這是最主要的一個開始執行了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1276.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1304.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
有些縣市 委員你可以到宜蘭去看看有些縣市遇到這個問題他把它做成全循環我還沒有完全執行之前在現在或即將運轉的相關設施中央是否有立即生效的行政指導或監測要求如果沒有的話一旦發生污染請問責任是在中央還是在地方基本上現在那個有一定的標準而且他這個最後處理是在你們的這個污水處理的管線的末端那個就會做處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1306.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1333.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以其實我這邊還是要重新再講一次其實這件事 院長1.8億其實對於行政院對於整個中華民國政府是很少的一筆錢但是我這邊要請院長來去責成環境部恢復基隆市對於天外天水洗灰飛設施的1.8億承諾補助讓地方政府可以擺脫未來每年3億元的財務噩夢順利完成得來不易的這個環保轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1334.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1358.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我還是認為應該依照中央地方權限來劃分否則財政收支方法4165億那每個縣市像委員這樣1.8億2億這叫驚吞蠶食啊又要驚吞又要蠶食中央受不了啊以後你看花蓮一條溪也要中央去處理你這個垃圾也要中央去處理但錢從中央一起搬走中央怎麼處理不能這樣驚吞蠶食 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1360.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1385.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們沒有提到花蓮 我今天也不是在提花蓮我們如果今天只是為了要打口水戰的話我們今天不用特地去提我告訴你 別的縣市也有這樣的要求所以不能大的拿走了 小的又要中央來補助院長 如果今天您是在我這位子上你一定會很生氣我不會去通過這樣的裁劃法你不會很生氣 因為你想幫地方做事但是不會通過這樣的裁劃法除非我不想執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1387.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1407.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我還是再回到比較全國面的請彭部長針對水洗灰飛跟劇毒的二次風險的污染然後還是要香港法規要全國的法規要趕快訂出來而且難的話要請院長這邊建立所謂跨部會的聯防機制確保新的技術的推動不會犧牲環境的代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1408.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1427.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
包委員其實有些縣市他們處理就很好我也有機會的話委員我帶你到宜蘭看一看好幾個縣市他們處理這個垃圾問題是真的自給自製做得很不錯那我也期待基隆還有很多的縣市因為垃圾處理就是地方的事務他們必須挑起來不是所有都是賴在我們身上來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1429.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1451.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我會很期待說基本上來講如果有關環境污染的事情不是只有一個縣市一個縣市處理垃圾不是應該一個縣市一個縣市事情處理垃圾國家也是有責任的這個我同意委員全國的垃圾處理的政策中央要有一套但除了執行有的地方來執行但政策我們會來研修院長我是說法規上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1451.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1474.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
法規上面如果你訂得不清楚那你只是一天到晚講選擇選擇選擇其實這不是我們今天站在這邊的原因今天站在國會殿堂就是處理全國的事務如果沒有一個完整的法規沒有好好的配奧措施的話再好的事情再利益良善的政策都會出問題的法規當然要一致 政策也要一致我們會從這裡來協助大家謝謝彭部長 未來我還會請向你辦公室請你過來跟我們聊聊 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1481.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1485.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
再來我想請交通部部長麻煩請交通部長備選時間不多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1497.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1525.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
OK 部長我在這個電動公車之前我們基隆今天發生一個蠻不幸的事情還好沒有人 目前我知道是無人傷亡不過忽然20台車20台小客車在通勤的時候他們的輪胎都在62號C上面全部被劃破那現在能不能跟我們講說現在目前交通部公路局的處置方式是什麼呢目前都已經修復完畢了今天早上發生之後很快速的公路局就已經去現場修復完畢那有受到影響是25輛車 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1526.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1554.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
二十五輛車那未來他們的賠償是否這邊公路局是可以我請公路局他們來研議一下因為對於他們這二十五台車來講可能對我們現在是個小事情不過這件事情對通勤族來講會是個噩夢同時之間我也要建起我們交通部針對這個所有這個橋樑的尖峰畢竟來講現在極端氣候忽冷忽熱的這個整個工程面來講會對於是很大的一個整個工程面跟工程的這個建築是一個很大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1555.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1576.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
再來我想跟部長跟院長再談一下有關大眾運輸尤其是有關基隆市的電動公車基本上來講我必須在這邊對於行政院交通部給予高度的肯定因為我們基隆市的電動公車我們基隆市的公車已經三四十年沒有換了甚至我們基隆市的公車已經是全國算有名之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1576.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1604.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
但是因為交通部過去這一年來我們不管是本席在立法院有極力爭取還是說我們交通部部長也很願意育成此案所以針對這個電動公車把基隆市變成所謂無碳運具的模範公司這件事情來講我們相對有些比較長足的成長基本上來講本席在這邊代表我們基隆通行組跟我們部長跟我們院長說聲謝謝不過我在這邊也要提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1605.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1621.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
其實我們電動公車就只有一家廠商嗎我們電動公車的交車廠商就只有一家嗎目前應該有五家目前我們知道他們因為如果有五家的話那他們現在交車的速度好像比預期落後很多每一間的進度跟速度不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1622.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1637.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
因為我知道說有幾家客運業者他們其實在做電動公車要汰換因為電動公車這件事情要2030全面無碳的大眾運輸工具的話那這件事來講電動公車要去上路第一個車子要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1638.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1666.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
第二個充電樁要有可是相對比較起來本來應該今年五月份都完全交車那變成是到今年九月份來才能交車那如果說是還沒有交車的像到明年可能才開始交車的可能會延後更久那我們也很清楚知道說成本上面的考量原物料現在越來越貴那我們針對電動公車的補助反而是越來越少這點我本席是會滿擔心的請問部長跟院長未來針對這個案子對於車子的案子上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1667.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1686.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
有什麼想法既然現在我們有五家的公車所以讓大家來選擇那我希望業者能夠自己提升自己的品質 效率跟服務這個部分請部長來做說我想 因為行政院非常的支持所以對於這個公車的電動化跟無碳化的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1687.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1715.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們持續在推進當中但2030年之前我們希望能夠完全落實完全的電動化基隆市政府其實當時在今年度也有申請了93輛車子目前基隆市政府自己核定了70輛剩下的23輛其實我們會幫他保留著這個部分預算已經有匡列等他後續的年度如果他核定了這個部分我們還是會繼續來協助我們希望達到2030年完全的電動化 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1716.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1739.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好 那有另外一件事情有另外一個案子就是我剛剛講到車子之外你有馬 沒有給馬吃的糧基本上馬也跑不壞 也跑不痛那我記得沒有錯的話 當初在屋的時候一個電動公車的充電樁好像是三千萬可是後來好像今年我看到最新的報價是八千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1740.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1769.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那中間這個我記得基隆市至少要8個充電樁那這個案子現在來講的話能不能就是說這個案子我會覺得是說如果我們真的想要在本來計畫是2年到3年之內基隆全部的100多台的電動電動台的老舊公車下雨還會漏水老舊公車可以換成全新的電動公車那因為尤其在基隆會特別顯著因為基隆地方小那基隆的這個公車搭乘量是全台灣第二高那這一點話會讓人民很有感 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1769.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1792.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這不只是說會是基隆市的政績也會是行政院的政績畢竟來講一個高低起伏很大的一個山區城市如果能夠成功的變成一個無碳運具的模範城市對於所有對於中華民國政府不管地方還是中央都是很大的一個鼓舞那可是現在如果卡到說有馬沒有糧那不是很可惜嗎部長還有糧喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1795.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1823.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個補助的部分我們還是持續那當然物價一直在調漲我們在討論看看有沒有可能針對補助的部分去做討論但另外一個層面是我們讓這個電動裝使用的更有效率也就是說用AI的分析讓它一個電動裝可以充更多的車子這個部分我們也在努力研究當中不是說一台車就要配一個電動裝我們希望一個電動裝可以充的這個車子更多那我們需要設置的電動裝就可以更少這個部分我們也在研議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1824.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1830.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
在研究當中我期待交通部未來對於基隆市電動公司的加碼 謝謝謝謝林沛祥委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝 |