| IVOD_ID |
163794 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163794 |
| 日期 |
2025-09-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第2次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第2次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-09-30T16:02:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-09-30T16:34:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:32:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9a1e91e0be0fc05cbebad23656107206e7e5c8dcf359e5efe312ae6b3da4535df88d0086199a8d6a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:02:21 - 16:34:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-09-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第2次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第3會期第26次會議報告事項第22案台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法第九十三條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等3案。二、同意權之行使事項：總統咨，為審計部審計長陳瑞敏任期於114年10月1日屆滿，茲依據憲法第一百零四條規定，提名陳瑞敏續任審計部審計長，咨請同意案。三、行政院院長施政報告並備質詢（9月30日下午）。） |
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謝謝韓院長 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢張委員好卓院長好台灣最美的風景是人這一天我們很感動我們看到很多產製 志工很多的民眾到花蓮去救災謝謝他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
56.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
79.391 |
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裡面有很多很辛苦的軍人警消人員也在救災我們非常感謝他所以今天我要提出兩個很大的質疑第一我們在感謝金警交的同時行政院為什麼到現在預算還不編呢在霸凌他們嗎第二個這裡面違法的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
81.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
109.693 |
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這兩個都非常非常的嚴重警消在救災的同時他用生命在捍衛我們每一個國民結果立法院已經三讀通過了幫軍人加薪幫警消人員提高他退休的所得替代力為什麼到現在行政院還不願變呢還要繼續霸凌我們的軍人跟警消嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
110.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
131.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
單委員身為國會議員如果公開說政府在霸凌警消人員這個是一個非常不得體的比喻我必須做嚴正的聲明我覺得你們非常對不起軍人跟警消人員我們在救災過程當中多少的國軍投入救災我們非常感謝我們對軍人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
132.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
145.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
待遇福利我們在今年也編了59.5億增加他很多志願役的相關的作戰部隊的一個經費我們逐步都在做我已經說過行政院編列預算行政院編列預算立法院審議預算但是由立法院來編列預算此利不可開 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
162.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
178.815 |
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包括你上次 被刑的時候你堅持 你說只要提了暫停處分 就可以不執行這樣你這個鬧了一個法界上的大笑話學界法界都在笑你連吳宗憲在隔一天 還把法務部部長現在在現場 鄭文謙正部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
184.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
190.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
當天晚上很多學界跟法界都提出來提醒院長大法官裁準了嗎?黃國昌啊 你是把自己當成大法官還是當成上帝了? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
214.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
223.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你去視線要求要暫時處分有裁定嗎我不是自己當著大法官委員是你們把大法官給搞掉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
225.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
247.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是你們把大法官會議給他消滅掉的大法官的問題不在人數你若多幾個像劉靜儀 劉大炮這樣總統趕快提名就夠了連你們民進黨自己還把你們自己總統提名刷掉問題不在人數不足你不要一百步笑十步好不好問不在民進黨想把大法官當成打手你們把絕大多數的否定掉一百步笑十步的工作不要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
248.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
277.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
蘇院長 趕快勸那總統提出合適的人選有一個標竿在那裡嘛你都提幾個像劉靜儀這樣的總統有敵啊馬上人數就夠了 更重要的更重要的你變成一個違法亂紀的院長來 易定發問我是一個遵守憲法的我在憲法的底下違憲我就不做合憲我們就做你有沒有違憲呢 來 問問一下我們中華民國是不是一個法治的國家所以我們才會站在這裡對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
278.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
294.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對嘛 所以法治的基本精神是什麼依法行政要遵守法律嘛 對不對問你第二個問題憲法才是至高無上的法律幫軍人跟警消這個三讀的這個條文立法院三讀過了總統已經公告了 對不對那總統有公告嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
296.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
324.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這法律生效了嗎憲法是至高無上的法律是國家的根本大法一切都要在合乎憲法的體制底下行政院才能在依法行政所以你說法治國家嘛所以我們立法院通過了幫金銀人每個月加薪三萬塊錢幫警消人員把他被你們砍得刀刀劍鼓的退休所得替代率恢復到八成立法院三讀過了他是不是總統公告完應該已經生效了請問委員我可以代表回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
326.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
338.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
它是不是生效了行政院編制預算 立法院審議預算任何大幅支出預算 稅出都必須跟行政院做共同的協商而且要指出資金的來源你們做到了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
339.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
359.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那個卓院長你有做到嗎?法治的精神好不好?法治的精神,委員有做到嗎?監督行政院,而且我問你監督,你講監督兩個字歷任以來有哪個行政院長,你舉一個給我聽就好了歷任以來有哪個行政院長,當立法院通過了要增加預算或者法定預算沒有編的,舉一個給我聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
360.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
376.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
哪一個立法院曾經替行政院編列預算你是監督立法院還是監督行政院還是代替行政院你剛在講勞動津貼嘛 宗嘉斌剛才說勞動津貼國民黨執政時代民進黨也提過勞動津貼提高啊立法院刪除通過啊相反的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
377.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
388.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
民進黨執政的時候要把阿扁執政參議院執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執政執 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
398.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
414.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們做的是一樣的事啊 不一樣 你有增加 你大幅增加稅數為了照顧老農 所以提高了他的津貼 那我們現在照顧金人我們提高了金人的這個加薪三萬塊這個有什麼不一樣 你大幅增加稅數有爭取行政院嗎 有指出資金來源嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
417.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
432.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們在監督你耶而且我跟你講 移民的重點是立法院刪除通過就要做立法院監督行政院不是立法院替代行政院編制預算這個要搞清楚你不要 那個 總理長請你尊重所有人民跟人民寫出來的立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不要把立法院當小弟立法院的憲法上面是代表人民而且代表人民監督你包括你的預算的前線包括必要的時候法案通過你本來法定預算你就要編啊你連一個基本常識你把預算案跟法案把它弄亂了欸憲法要我接受立法院的監督我絕對接受立法院的監督但是憲法不容許立法院替代行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
469.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那你也不能夠踐踏人民選舉的立法院啦我沒有 我沒有踐踏我請大法官解釋 我沒有踐踏來啦 我要繼續問你啦換你題啦你一直說 你已經提了暫停處分了那你議選就不編 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
485.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
大法官被你們弄到現在無法開會啊這個我剛已經講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
507.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
523.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你也問同樣的問題嘛你問同樣的問題喔我呼籲一下時間暫停尊重尊重你你問同樣的問題我當然同樣的答案啊你不要正面回答問題我是代表人民要解決問題我們現在談的是什麼談的是照顧金人跟警消人員欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
524.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
545.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在時間是暫停的容我講我們今天施政諮詢我們採集問及答方式由委員執行再由官員來進行諮詢範圍的答覆委員官員要拜託大家基於相互尊重用理性溝通的方式來進行政策的對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
546.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
560.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
提醒一下卓院長剛才您才施政報告要社會對話和解對 我對同樣的問題只有同樣的答案好 麻煩繼續你如果再不正式回答問題我就請韓院長叫他看你眼睛來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
583.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
行政院你上次跟我講說你跟憲法法庭提出的暫停處分嘛對不對那我現在問你在憲法法庭還沒有裁定生效之前這個法例案是不是有效率我們等待憲法法庭有或沒有是非題有跟沒有有或沒有沒有憲法法庭可以做裁定的時候我們就等憲法法庭做決定的時候再來做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
600.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
剛剛不是提了嗎 你趕快請賴院長提出合適的人選馬上就過了嘛你把他當打手 全民都不要你過立法院怎麼會過總統提過啦 被你們否決掉啊那你不要提招子 你只要回答我憲法法庭裁定生效之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
602.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
630.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個法例案有沒有效有或者沒有我們等待憲法法庭能夠做出有效的決定等待憲法法庭能夠做出有效的決定你是行政院長法治國家你說你依法行政你有依法行政嗎我們現在提出這個法例有沒有效等待憲法法庭提出有效的決定我們再來依照這個決定做必要的處分好繼續問那你一直不願意編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
632.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
警消人員可不可以依法向你要求國家賠償兩件事情有他同樣的性質兩件事情有他同樣的性質我們同時都送警大法官我剛講說霸凌你說這個字眼不好對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你嚴重的欺負我們金人跟警消人員沒有欺負沒有欺負喔心存感激該給人家的錢立法院通過你不給該有的條例該有的福利而且你離人民那麼遙遠都聽不到民間的抗議嗎該有的福利從來沒有減少逐年會增加違法亂紀的行政院長我現在很明確的他們可不可以跟你要求國家賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
670.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
只要憲法法庭做出了決定 合憲我們就編 而且會追溯如果不合憲 那當然沒有辦法編所以現在等待憲法法庭的決定警銷 警察人員人事條例警銷的所得替代率提恢復到八成 這個事情是去年的4月25號就已經 總統公告了他是現在進行式喔 你們站在一起你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
717.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你已經踐踏人家 人家那麼辛苦的在工作 捍衛 捍衛家園跟每個人結果立凡過了給他的這個預算 你一毛錢都不給人家這樣違法斷句 欺負踐踏 依照憲法跟預算法你增加我大幅的支出 你有沒有跟我找出資金的來源你剛剛不是你說你自己要增加預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
739.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你都可以增加預算去照顧軍人立法院三讀通過了 你就沒有預算了更重要 我們今天一直在講是法治國行政院編制預算 立法院審議立法院來泰地行政院編 行政院當然沒有辦法接受此例已開了 選民現在在等選民現在在等 憲法法庭裁定之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
740.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
767.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
裁定之前你是不是應該遵守立法院通過的三讀趕快幫軍人加薪趕快幫警消人員提高他的所得替代率我等待憲法法庭做出正確的決定我們就依法做但是我覺得我此刻我此刻最重要的是救災委員一點都不關心救災對啊 我們的軍警那麼那麼賣力的那麼辛苦的在救災啊結果你還在辦你一點都不關心救災如果一個行政院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
769.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
789.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
連法律在什麼狀況下應該要遵守都講不清楚我講清楚是你聽不清楚我沒有踐踏我們心存感激你不必要再扭曲你不必要再扭曲扭曲不是你的專長你不需要扭曲好我們終於回來了這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
801.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
829.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這是個天災事實上可能也是個仁厚我們的市商花蓮民眾的市商不應該這麼嚴重的我給大家看一個8月26號就在同樣的地方林益勳站在這裡問了行政院長卓永泰問了農業部部長他說這個院舍府啊就是一個不定時的這個炸彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
830.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
850.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
花蓮姓林非常非常的擔心結果我們的左院長怎麼回答他說包括我們的李孟彥顧問也花了很多時間去研究即使他研究出來都告訴我們他認為說沒有急迫性的危險除非 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
851.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
880.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你看一下 除非下很大很大的雨否則不會有急迫性的危險林益晉在這邊問了一個非常關鍵的話林益晉說 你說除非下很大的雨嘛 對不對好啦 林益晉 那如果就像你說的突然下了非常非常大的大雨 怎麼辦部長回答了 不會這次就是下了很大的雨嘛風太來啊 下了非常大的雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
881.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
887.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本來那個壩裡面只有6000萬公噸一下子暴增到9000萬公噸整個就潰壩了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
889.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
914.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
林益晶有提醒你們 結果部長說沒有更重要的是林益晶講了一句話我跟委員報告 我們從7月26號開始就有做這些相關的一個監測而且把這個監測也適時的提供給中下游的那些居民需要疏散的我們的整個作業都在做所以益晶才問你 那如果說下很大的雨怎麼辦這就是 真的就出現很大的雨嘛 紅胎來嘛更重要是下面這句話 來院長跟部長都看一下 現在更嚴重是下面這一話 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
916.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
938.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
部長一直在強調說他不會啦 因為他壩底非常的長1.7公里 2.3公里 更長喔那更安全才對啊 可是為什麼你兩次都講這個 結果還是溢流以後就潰堤呢來 莫定你看這幾位 你總是說的人家說他會溢流 但是不會瞬間潰堤或者潰壩 這是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
941.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
969.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個顯示的三個非常嚴重的第一個專業不足判斷又是錯誤第三個輕忽大意了因為潰流這幾天專家寫的都出來跟你講這個液體一流以後它是個土石它不是像那個水庫一般是水泥它一般的土石所以它很像一流以後整個就很快就被沖垮了就跟這個杯子一樣旁邊而且它一下下陷了多少第一缸 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
970.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
984.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
第一天潰壩多少 大家曉得嗎 80公頃這是幾層樓 一層樓大概3公尺對不對 我定來定定當天被下車 這個潰壩多嚴重 26層樓整個下車結果行政院跟農業部到現在還在狡辯說這個只是一流 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
995.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1009.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
不是潰壩我要特別的澄清一流的結果就是潰壩然後我們在歷史的通報裡面都有將最極端的潰壩的風險分析提供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1010.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1027.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
地方政府也提供給需要疏散的這些主要的人員所以溢流本身是對水位的監測當水位流過堤頂以後它就有可能產生不同層數的潰壩這些潰壩的分析我們都有提供給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1027.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1045.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
而不是說我們部長你這樣越講越嚴重啦你都預測到可能會潰壩結果你還沒有及時的去監控跟疏散我們造成這麼大的死傷喔我要跟委員報告齁整個霸體本身的動態你到底有沒有輕忽你專業性到底夠不夠造成這麼多的死傷你一直在狡辯我們的任何的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1051.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1076.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們所有人的回應都是依據專家會議的決議的一個結果來回應絕對不是我個人或是用行政的指導的方式做回應我們是根據專家會議的決定第二個整個霸體的分析跟他的水量湖水的水量有關跟當時的雨量也有關係這個都是動態的變化所以我們持續的提供這些警戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1076.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1094.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
就是要讓中下游的居民能夠了解它的嚴重性給我一段話委員只知其一不知其三我們分析的有自然溢流有颱風有大雨還有地震委員知道如果地震的時候水沖下來要幾分鐘嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1096.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1104.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
你知道嗎 我們都有分析委員只拿其中的一點從9月8號到29號 常常七整夜的通訊的資料就是在告訴大家要提高警覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1115.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1136.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
你說的那個時候大體有多長 水有多深你用那個時候的標準來質疑今天發生 那是不對的9月8號我們就開始前面的要求從此我們也告訴縣市10月他就可能自然的溢流我們都要做好所有的準備來我給你看那個院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1137.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1154.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我說的你們委員都不清楚我們可以私下跟委員說明清楚這一點我不是跟你狡辯事實就在這裡啊真相是在這裡啊希望不要任何悲劇再產生那剛剛講得非常明確我知道大家有努力可是這裡面發現的專業不足的同時更嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1154.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1172.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
你的監測是不是出了狀況甚至是不是傾覆民眾都很清楚你自己跟他講不會潰壩對不對我沒有講不會潰壩我沒有講不會潰壩我們是用異議留情這幾天電視上跟演藝都已經播多少你竟然否定啊那個是時間點的問題這個在8月13號好野黨團協商的時候來來我給你看到這文字來時間不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1181.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1208.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
情境也不一樣當初是在講楊柳颱風在那個時間點大家是關心楊柳颱風會不會造成潰壩我說在那個時候的水位離壩頂還有50多公尺所以它不會潰壩那個是在那個時間點但是在後續我們做長期的這些監測也提供通報裡面我們對水位的描述是溢流可是我們對於通報裡面的內容我們是講你立即問你的時候是8月26號 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1210.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1234.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
楊友已經過了多久了不要狡辯啦我們沒有狡辯8月26的時候這一次的華家沙颱風還沒有來所以我們是用一流的方式去做評估也有分析可能的大雨可能的颱風可能的地震禁止的有動態有颱風來你都不用所以霸體的分析是動態的他根據水量我要看另外一個問題內政部長劉世芳劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1239.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1249.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
麻煩請內政部長備詢在最後撤離的時候這幾天媒體在播放你的音檔講了兩個很重要的一公啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1250.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1277.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
劉世芳指揮官公如果他可以原地撤離就像我們剛剛所說的頂多下面有自己的在家裡門口有一些水淹過了然後呢過了就算了再來清理家裡頂多家裡下面有自己家門口有一些水淹過這是斷章取義你那天提出的叫做垂直撤離垂直避難 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1281.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1298.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
跟張委員報告一下這個是誰撤入的我並不清楚但是我希望他們從頭到尾可以聽到我講的話我是在跟台大團隊在處理有關評估的狀況的時候台大團隊提出有30公分 50公分 100公分這樣子的一個淹水的一個高度 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1299.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1323.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那我提到說那如果30公分的話可能有可能像我剛剛那個你所提的這個幾個幾句但是他忘了提到包括院長都有交代我們用最高標準來評估所以我們用的是100公分所以我說這種側錄的話就是一個斷章取義然後是一個抹黑我希望他們前言後語全部把它弄清楚我也不希望在網路上繼續謠傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1325.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1346.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
因為有關災害防救的部分如果繼續謠傳的話它涉及到的刑責或是處分是非常高的頂多下面有自己家門口有些水已經淹過了那就是在光復鄉本來就有一些地區呢它是屬於30公分以下淹水這個有真相的啦 來我們播錄音檔給大家聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1351.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1370.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
雖然看起來需要撤離的人數很多但是最多的大同村大馬村大華村這個已經超過四五百戶的幾乎都是最靠近京華地區然後也可能他們都是兩層樓以上的建築所以如果我們就垂直避難的話就躲到二樓就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1372.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1375.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
為什麼村長有不同的反應有的願意垂直撤離 有的不願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1382.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1406.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個有錄音 這個非常的 這是新加坡問題嗎沒有 我還是跟張委員報告他其實就是被斷章取義我們垂直避難呢 從那個傅坤祺委員當縣長到現在花蓮縣他們也公布垂直避難也是一種避難也就是說水流來的時候如果他沒有超過一公尺或是一公尺這次證明大概就是兩公尺多那你往二樓堅固的建築啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1408.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1434.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
來馬上做垂直避難的在短暫的時間內的是可以接受的所以我才會在記者會有特別強調說人命的保全最重要而不是財產人命的保全最重要我兩次記者會都說得非常的清楚所以才說測路的朋友不管是從哪個地方測路的請他把前面前面跟後面的前言後語全部對在一起才知道說我所講的部分是指一親 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1435.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1443.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
疏散還有垂直避難三種方式垂直撤離這個是你確實有指示垂直避難然後第二個水暈過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1444.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1464.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
所以我說要把前面跟後面要講清楚水來的時候如果有超過100公分絕對不是水淹過就算了我認為委員不會像一般鄉民一樣說做了這樣子一個謠言亂傳因為這會危害災害防救法沒有 我剛講過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1467.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1492.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那你請拿給檢調單位但是我希望是全部不要斷章取義我們已經澄清過很多次而且我都一再強調我們在中央災害應變中心希望的是用最高的標準然後希望不要斷章取義這樣會妨害救災而且救災的時候不希望有人造謠這樣會造成很多居民或者是救災前線的民眾的恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1493.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1517.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
檢調已經分案了嘛 對不對這個一定是要查的 我不清楚但是希望委員可以把全部的部分提送不要斷章取義 千萬不要斷章取義民進黨的立法院黨團 他們有一個群組請問不要斷章取義 這件事情不是很困難他就已經看過那個群組 給他看一下王定宇後來都休憤 都退群了結果現在在政府還在賴皮 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1518.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1545.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那時候王定宇說什麼他在take你的秘書長跟你的副秘書長阮昭雄跟張春涵他說什麼 要第三方跟媒體釋出澄清而且要有具殺傷力的這個消息以利有軍 這有軍什麼人親立媒體嗎 1450嗎大家都在就在說 還作為一個示意圖怎麼把責任推給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1546.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1552.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
當大家都在救災的時候民進黨政府急著做認知作戰急著在推卸 這是我剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1553.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1578.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我覺得救災是不分中央跟地方委員我不是在任何人有缺失把真相呈現出來我不是在讚許我不是在讚許跟同意你剛剛說的那個巨殺傷力這樣用但是如果陳如委員剛剛這樣在誤會我們劉部長部長就應該斬釘截鐵清楚的告訴你正確的答案為什麼是誤會我剛給你聽音檔對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1579.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1603.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
前貨文檢調也把他查 你的殷檔是斷章取義的啊你的殷檔是斷章取義的 而且是誰做這個陸殷檔不知道民進黨政府到底在這次有沒有 簽文有沒有本來應該做的事情沒有做不作為我們給他看整個時間軸來看看咧驗社福是怎麼樣大道沒辦法處理嗎人民只能等著 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1605.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1617.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
潰壩嗎大家看一下這什麼時候開始出現這個驗射斧113年10月31號康納颱風驗射斧就成型了到了114年開始要研究怎麼處理7月25號大家看7月25的時候這個驗賽斧裡面的蓄水量是多少14000公噸14000公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1632.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1659.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
然後到了8月12號的時候已經增加到2200萬噸2200萬噸到了14號的時候 一直在暴增了這裡面有一個很重要的時間點 大家看下面813的時候 當蓄水量一直在增加的時候暴增的時候韓院長主持了我們的朝野協商那天包括鄭天才 胡坤祺黨團的代表 我們提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1660.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1671.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
他可能有潰堤的這個風險結果農業部說沒有沒有沒有立即的這個危險到了8月26林立新站在這裡再次的事情再次的這個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1673.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1696.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
行政跟農會部沒有很明確的做好整個監測跟整個如果有潰堤潰壩我跟委員報告在8月26的時候在那個時間點什麼樣我們也會持續的監測跟分析我要請問如果在今年的721721那時候的水量是比較少的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1697.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1721.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
民進黨多一點信心 委員你知道農業部七月農業部七月二十六就成立專案小組了嗎我跟委員報告喔 這個驗舍服在七月二十六號用航空圖正式確認確認的那天就成立了應變小組那您這邊講的一百零九年 那陸續非常非常小的後來他又坍塌了 你都講過這個驗舍服早期九十幾年就開始了 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1721.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1738.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
後來一直出現又停又出現他不是累積的 他不是累積的 驗射5不是一直堆上來的最近一次的驗射5在7月21的颱風以後形成的在518颱風以後形成的那你應該知道7月26號就成立應備小組啊 你應該知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1745.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1771.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
7月26的時候當然是已經出現所以在處理嘛 對不對7月21的尾巴颱風開始有落直掉下來掉下來以後開始逐漸的上游的水開始去形成蓄積在7月26的時候我們就用航空圖確認確認的那一天我們就成立一面小組那段時間行政院在忙什麼事情賴清德7月23號說啊 大罷免啦最後一里路大家要加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1772.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1789.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
到了7月25 賴清德說 中央黨部跟所有的黨公子要全力去支援 大罷免8月13號 陳慶基說沒有立即性潰堤到了26號 還是說沒有急迫性的到了9月12號 開始你們找了李鴻眼進來 這個團隊組成 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1791.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1814.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
李洪源說這個已經水太多了我們7月26日就組安排12小組沒辦法處理了 大家看一下我整理這個時間序委員你不要低溝道太多啦還有農業部長講的話 你看這個水增加了增加了多少 從7月26日一直到快餅從1400萬噸到2200到3400 5000 一度這樣上去你這是低溝道太多你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1816.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1843.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
你知道我們現在除了這個煙射壺台灣還有哪些地方有煙射壺你知道嗎台灣其他地方還有哪裏有煙射壺我們已經長期在監控我們給大家看一下煙射壺以前怎麼處理我們已經長期在監控其他地方的煙射壺你再講煙射壺 我跟你講一個例子921大地震以後出現了草嶺的這個煙射壺隔了 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1845.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1865.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
一個月左右一個月過了一天完成了緊急的應變工程包括一流的水道隔離的這個土堤還有我跟委員報告馬太安的驗射壺跟草嶺的驗射壺是不一樣的馬太安的驗射壺是人車沒有辦法到達的草嶺的驗射壺是人車可以到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
1866.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
1887.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我今天的執行非常重要我在提醒以前都有成功的個案這一次是不是疏忽了當然你們認為沒有讓檢調查清楚更重要是什麼要把人民放在心上剛講的如果在水少的時候你就已經預防性好好去做料敵從寬我跟委員報告我們絕對沒有撇清責任現階段的最重要就是救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
1899.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
1902.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 張啟凱 |