| IVOD_ID |
16375 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16375 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024121693 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-17T09:48:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-17T11:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:41:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6859fa33769801191b349e6f6c5a803f03078081dad70f87c465021ea2dd1b829f05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-17T10:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院社會福利及衛生環境、經濟兩委員會報告審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:48:49 - 11:30:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1286.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1290.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好,我們現在開始開會那今天我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1292.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1305.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
12月17號黨團協商的程序我們做以下宣告在開會之前我們先介紹我們今天出席的委員跟行政官員吳春城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1320.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1321.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
努力發展署劉毅宇組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1352.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1371.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
行政院衛福勞動處處長蘇永富衛福部李建德次長社家署李玉銀組長長照師檢證記證白山啟建保署參議黃沛山 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1386.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1390.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
新建師科長 游凱祥科長國電署研究員黃巧文護理健康師陳青梅 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1411.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1416.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
經濟部主任林德森國際貿易署檢任秘書簡穎英技術師科長何彥慶 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1440.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1447.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國家發展委員會副處長賴雲林簡任記政曾永儀沈智勳科長莊靜文科長世衛發展部副處長陳惠敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1468.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1474.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
交通部公共署副署長林信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1498.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1499.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國科會楊台鴻處長軍管會林志憲處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1525.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1530.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
教育部梁學正師長吳志偉專門委員陳應賢課長文化部陳怡靜副師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1554.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1561.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們現在進行協商社會福利及衛生環境、經濟兩委員會審查委員吳春城等42人擬具《壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案》案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1581.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1587.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
審查會於11月2日審查完畢制定案,共21條。法案名稱第1條、第11條、第15至第21條保留,其餘12至14條由審查結果通過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1606.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1622.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
並結議院會討論前需求有黨團協商。所以我們今天就來做黨團協商。與會的委員,如有修正、動議或機關有建議內容,請提出書面,應發現場進行討論。那先請與會機關代表說明,並請委員討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1635.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1637.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席、各位委員還有行政院各部會的主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1663.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1674.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個法我們討論到今天委員會的協商那以上次來講大家也提出了許多的救教 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1677.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1678.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
首先談到為什麼要立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1705.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1722.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
為什麼要這個立法就是其實大家應該都很清楚台灣再過兩個禮拜就進入超高齡社會那我不曉得我們現在政府有提出什麼讓人振奮人心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1723.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1744.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
的一些方案大概都是率有就章用舊的方法解決這問題顯然都是擋不了這個少子化跟高齡化的浪潮那大家是不是可以擺脫擺掉這不是說那些東西不做那些東西要繼續做我們是不是有些新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1745.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1756.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
的方案出來來迎接這一個新的人口大浪潮那壯世代的推動即使行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1757.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1782.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是行政院現在已經有14個部會在配合了配合了半年其實有些部會都相當有成績特別勞動部勞動部做的事情非常多而且是三年要投入98億而且相信勞動部在推動壯世代的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1783.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1806.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
相關的活動、人才論壇各種的應該成果都相當的好我們看到了推動的壯世代都有得到很好的成果包括教育部也非常的響應推動了第三人生大學從一月份已經開始試辦各個學校非常踴躍 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1808.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1835.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
的響應,大家搶著要,搶著要增加的事辦,包括速發布,又使用了壯世代在那個諮詢頁當中,馬上創下幾萬人的這個進入,可以講說是銀髮族大碗諮詢頁的浪潮。所以在實務當中,大家可以看到壯世代的確開啟了一個我們對高齡的想像, |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1836.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1861.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
經常在問,就是說,我也問國科會的主委說,科學家需不需要想像力?他跟我說需要。那想像算不算科學?當然不太算科學,而是一個信仰,想像是一個信仰,不像你想像有沒有上帝一樣,它是一個信仰,一個信念。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1861.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1885.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我就問他說那你心中認為的高齡社會是一個悲慘世界還是一個美麗新世界呢那他又答不出來他說有悲慘也有美好我說科學家沒有悲觀的權利嘛科學家一定是要樂觀嘛那是我們的未來欸那是我們的未來我們怎麼可以對未來悲觀呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1887.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1915.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以如果你認為它是一個悲慘的世界你就會提出悲慘的解方如果你認為它是一個美好的世界你就會提出一個美好的解方我們現在大部分認為高齡社會我看的論述都認為是悲慘世界這個要破產了那個要倒了那個要怎麼樣引發大海嘯來了所以大家各個部會手忙腳亂都想要補破洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1916.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1941.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
現在所採用的方式都在補波動大家非常的辛苦但是效果有限壯世代開啟了一個新的觀點就是把不可避免的高齡化社會視為一個美好的世界所以呢我們要先接受它這是不可避免倒三角形的社會這就是必然之台灣的未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1942.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1965.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們怎麼可以排去它呢?我們要把它想像它是個美好的世界那想像美好的世界,就是這些高齡者現在55歲以上的已經佔人口將近800萬,790萬人了那對這些人好一點不行嗎?這些人人生就只剩下長照嗎?就只剩下臥床嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1966.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1994.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他們未來有30年我們的各個政策是不是應該要幫他們創造一個美好的未來呢整個的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法都在建構這個東西需要各個部會的配合那事實上各個部會也都非常的配合我們也都有很好的成果跟成效出來了然後呢現在到了立法的這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1995.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2012.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我也非常的努力希望這是三個黨大家共同迎接給我們的全民的禮物不是哪一個黨的虧底不是哪一個黨的功勞所以包括這次連署42位當中也有8位民進黨的在這個過程當中不斷的溝通那我不曉得大家在反對什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2022.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2047.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我不曉得大家在反對什麼希望大家憑著良心秉持著看到這個事情的美好看到這事情的美好所有的包括相關的詞彙相關的東西這個不是突然冒出來這個已經在民間推動四年了現在的普遍的媒體廣泛的採用 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2048.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2064.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
大家只要聽到的都非常寧願喜歡採用壯世代這個名詞到處在各個部會各位如果你去google去搜尋都可以看得到這樣子所以當然相關的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2065.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2082.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
在這本手冊當中都有針對上次大家提出的問題提出的回答因為今天不是上課沒辦法這個陳述非常完整但是上次在討論當中我也發現一個問題就是大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2083.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2084.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2112.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2120.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好,謝謝原提案的五位委員那我們現在請勞動部次長跟衛生局部次長各講三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2126.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2155.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席各位委員大家好首先代表勞動部感謝各位委員對於勞動政策的支持剛才吳委員也有諸多的期許和勉勵勞動部一一都有收到勞動部對於我們整個的勞動力的觸發一直都在努力當中那過去承蒙各位委員的支持我們中高齡及高齡者就業促進法也有完整的展開那今年12月4號也在各位委員的支持底下我們做了一版修正包括三年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2156.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2177.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
計劃包括一些指導的手冊要定期兩年更新包括我們對於即將退休或準備退休或符合退休資格我們應該理當給他相關的協助一些應有的作為我們都在持續展開當中所以有關於今天本案其實涉及到勞動部的部分主要是第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2177.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2198.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這樣一個條文當然是相對的概括提綱竊臨但是我們在中高齡及高齡者促進法都有完整的展開我們會本於這樣的精神持續去推出國人的就業的部分這第一點跟大家做說明那第二點就是說除了這個之外本案還會涉及到產業促進這要其他各方面的政策規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2199.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2212.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這部分大概都跟勞動部的業務比較無色我們基本上就尊重各個部會彼此之間的意見我們就不特別在這裡多做說明以上報告謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2224.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2246.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席以及在座各位委員、各位同仁,大家早安。衛福部在這邊僅代表我們衛福部這邊來做簡單三分鐘的發言。第一個,我們非常非常欽佩吳委員在這個有關於這個壯世代方面的這個卓越貢獻。那麼其實這個確實是一個非常成功的政策倡議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2247.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2248.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2271.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2294.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
中高齡是ILOD45,聯合國UN是65。對於這個所謂壯世代755,老實說在整個學術、法律跟政策上恐怕都是一個不確定的概念。因此落實為法律,恐怕真的需要比較明確的律定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2296.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2312.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這裏面立法上面第二個重點就是說也比較牽涉在一些原則性跟概念性的描述那麼對於行政機關執行法律的這一個條文內容解釋上判斷一身這一個疑問所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2314.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2337.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第三,我們現在目前其實在這一個有關於高齡社會白筆書裡面其實也已經有相關的這一個部會還有這一個由政委來召集那麼這裡面包括剛剛勞動部陳次長所提到中高齡者以及高齡者就業促進法以及教育部的終身教育法 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2338.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2363.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
經濟部的中小企業發展條例以及衛福部的老人福利法其實各個方面我們也編列了相關的經費統合了許多的部會那麼如果重複規範的話其實仍然容易一生法律適用之困難徒增執法之治安因此本部基本上還是持較為保留之態度以上說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2366.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2378.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
謝謝理事長。好,我們現在就開始。那我們就先從名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2379.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2395.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
名稱叫做《壯世代政策與產業發展促進法》,上次是保留,現在請委員表示意見,那官員回答,如果有意見的話我們就保留,如果能通過的話就通過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2402.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2406.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
主席上次針對這個草案我們上次是認為就是說壯世代的這個定義確實是含瓜太廣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2416.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2417.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2432.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2456.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
就譬如說這個壯世代改成比如說這個中高齡或高齡或者是超高齡這樣的一個這個名稱來定義的話那也符合現在目前衛福部跟勞動部或其他部會的一些法案可以銜接那也不會動到其他的相關的這個法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2457.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2465.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我是不是可以建議就是說這個法案的名稱可以改為這個超高齡社會人才及產業發展促進法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2470.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2487.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
還有沒有委員有其他意見因為上次我在工地公會的時候也有提過了就是說今天學禮上本來就沒有這個名詞當然你要喊這個名詞可是入法還是不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2488.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2488.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
中高年齊、老年齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2516.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2535.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
明年是超高齡,那如果要這樣的話就直接叫做超高齡社會人才,但我知道吳委員是想說要有一個比較讓大家覺得說自己是壯世代,比較不是灰暗的,比較灰色的,可是入法的話我覺得事實上是要讓人家清楚的,不能是不清楚的,否則就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2535.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2536.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
行政單位有沒有意見?沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2553.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2581.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我可以發言嗎?可以可以誰都可以發言謝謝主席也非常謝謝吳委員真的非常熱心希望讓這個壯世代可以在台灣落地生根那未來可以影響到全世界不過因為我們也很擔心的就是45歲、55歲之間所造成的影響那吳委員也提供了今天的一個立法說明書的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2583.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2600.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
1、2、3、第3頁我們可以看到最左上角有關於這個55歲以後勞參率斷崖式的下滑所以我們也擔心其實45歲以後的開始下滑到80%以下所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2601.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2628.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
未來如果壯世代規範在55歲以上的話事實上對於我目前所謂的中高齡還是有涵括上的困難所以我是比較也贊同說到時45歲以上應該也要關心不是相對也是壯世代的一群所以如果我們在法案名稱上做一些調整在說明上把這個壯世代這個名字也能夠在立法說明裡面有一個了解的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2630.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2630.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
以上,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2657.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2682.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
行政單位是說這個壯世代世界沒有定義,現在吳春城是說55位以上,所以他們現在說找不到這個定義,所以會跟那個衛福部、勞動部、中高齡或高齡或老齡會有干戈,所以這點可能大家想到,來張市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2687.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2714.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
今天很高興,我記得是很理性在國通,我今天看到三位民進黨的立委,也都是大家比較肯定正能量的。那我現在是要提醒一下就是說,因為上次委員會審查的時候我有來,現在看起來那個,大家卡住的那個點都是一樣。那麼有智慧的主席,蘇欽前蘇委員上次有提的海洋委員會那個例子嘛。就當初海洋委員會這個要立法的時候,那海洋委員會這個也是一個新的,就跟現在這個壯世代是一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2715.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2720.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那大家那時候後來是通過海洋委員會的你看那個執掌現在運作的也非常的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2721.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2750.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我是覺得智者幫忙提出一個解決方法我覺得可以用這個當初海洋委會那個模式我覺得可以用壯世代這個應該沒有關係不過不過我知道今天有三位民進黨立委在你們真的如果還是一直都有意見啦我覺得一開始就是說因為我這個是超黨派的一個提案而且是比較沒有政治性色彩那麼重的我建議說如果大家還是有意見那就也不要再浪費太多時間在這上面因為上次也溝通過了嘛說要停留在原點就這樣保留好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2751.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2771.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
你現在這個要保留,阿平都在保留,因為都卡在那一句而已,一句而已。我再說一句,剛才在說海洋委員會,我還是要跟大家報告一下,上次第八屆立委的時候,有一個叫田秋晴委員,現在在做監察委員,還有一個邱文彥委員,國民黨的。邱文彥今天在選考試委員,應該中了,應該當選了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2780.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2799.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那麼兩個人,就是提一個海洋委員會,我都把他當作笑的,啊真的笑的,兩個很堅持,一直拚,一直拚,拚到什麼,連這個時候的總統馬英九都說服,結果這個海洋委員會就通過啦,通過我們覺得很奇怪齁,那那個行政黨也不敢, |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2800.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2823.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
不敢成立委員會搞了好幾年才成立,慢慢成立所以這個就是一個新的委員會誕生現在就是管媽在當主委所以有時候新的想法新的突破點也未嘗不是好事所以立法沒有那麼簡單我再一次跟吳春城 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2824.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2831.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
蔡教授口中有夠發明、有夠堅持,我真的佩服他的勇敢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2837.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2860.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主席,因為我們上次已經有通過三個法條,就12、13、14,那個壯世代也許我現在我們再來即時管理,那個名詞,那個名詞部分我請你老子有,但是我想最後等大家是不是把其他的,沒有繼續保留,就是我們把其他的可行的部分先討論完,那個壯世代這個名詞要怎麼用? |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2862.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2862.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
後面一點來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2873.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2877.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
其實壯世代是一個概念一個想法表示說有一群人他們在某個年紀之後他們還是繼續有所謂的貢獻能力生產能力健康狀態是處於不是在長照那個階段的狀態那這個東西我們可以討論那就全世界沒有我們台灣也可以第一個可是現在因為有點卡住我們是不是就實質面的部分我們也希望有一個統合的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2897.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2918.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
因為這個不是權益法,這個是促進,那面臨台灣這樣的年紀狀況我想說,因為剛剛委員們,您這樣委員我提出來,但是唯一就是沒有個超高齡,那我們繼續思考一下,也許等一下我們就有一個大家可以接受的那個名詞,可以繼續往下面看一下嗎,不然我們就卡住第一條了主席,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2919.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2941.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
名稱根本一定要用壯世代啦,現在大家喜歡啦,你是不是都用中高齡政策產業,那些古的娘,這壯世代聽起來很爽的,這名稱不一樣,聽起來很興奮的大家可不可以那個昭知委員所提的這一個,大家既然有爭議我們先不要卡在這裡,然後可不可以先討論,我們12到14條 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2946.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2948.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
主席明年2025年我們雙北要舉辦世界壯年運動會它的這個壯年事實上是30歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2969.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2997.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以我為什麼一直講說到底我們因為這個壯世代這個壯年你如果不是清楚的話有的又講說30歲有的你這邊又講55歲那等於是不是又講45歲所以我說如果按照發展人類發展學的話他的中老中年期事實上是我們的45歲到64歲老年期是65歲以上所以可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2998.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2998.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
吳春城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3023.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3023.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
聶宇昌議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3054.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3072.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
其實我個人覺得這部法最重要的,剛剛也都講過很多啦,那我覺得這名稱的有它的重要性啦。那至於到底名稱是不是什麼,我覺得我想要問一下在場,現在國際上面定義是45歲以上是中高齡嘛,可是其實我自己問過很多人,45歲以上覺得被叫中高齡不是很舒服啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3073.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3094.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你會有人點頭,被叫中高齡不是很舒服所以我覺得這部法最重要精神是重新定義重新從觀念上改變這些事情那所以我們一直在糾結說國際上面好像沒人這樣做可是事實上國際上面目前我們是面臨人口驟變最嚴重的國家那大家在解決這個問題也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3096.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3112.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
國際上也沒有真的有解方那我們何不就是想一下我們是不是有可能可以突破那我自己就是其實這段時間剛剛吳委員也有講過在社會上其實各部會有在做這類的推廣那這樣子的名稱是不是真的有受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3113.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3136.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
有受到社會廣泛的接受或是他們聽到這樣的名稱有沒有對他行為做出實質的改變應該是這個壯世代的重點所以我倒覺得說究竟是不是定義這個壯世代或許各部會也可以針對說你們辦的活動你叫做壯世代之後跟你們以前所謂的中高齡高齡就業促進法有沒有明顯的差異假設有我們何不接受壯世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3139.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3156.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那你硬要卡的話,平常你講,如果硬要說45歲以上、55歲以上什麼,那還是我們把壯世代擴大到45歲以上全部都是,如果你硬要這樣子弄的話,那不然就這樣子啊,那我們就符合,但是我自己是認為啊,定義這55歲以上可能有他的意義存在,包含剛剛看到的數據啊,那我只是想要反過來問說,其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3163.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3175.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
就我理解大家各部會在做這個壯世代議題的推動和倡議的時候他如果有實質的效果他的確有可能導致可以讓我們來應對所謂的人口的結構的急劇的驟變這樣謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3178.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3179.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我講一下那個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3197.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3215.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
對 那壯世代到底有什麼問題他給你一個什麼不舒服的感覺那你認為用什麼名詞比較好那當然可以提出來你認為用中高齡好 你也可以提出來我要問的一點就是如果他有問題請問勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3220.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3245.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
從今年的2月推動到這裡高舉壯世代旗幟投入了98億要壯世代重返職場然後辦了多少的活動呢有當時許明春部長說他最愛壯世代他發現壯世代給了一個很大能量辦了很多的研討會叫新價值壯世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3245.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3274.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
然後還有後續到了河北山部長的時候又辦了壯世代新任性然後辦了壯世代就業網路合作計畫辦了壯世代人力運用論壇然後有很多的壯世上個禮拜才辦的2024壯世代就業精彩獎然後用了很多壯世代為什麼勞動部要一直用壯世代呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3275.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3275.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3297.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3324.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
你們用壯世代你們的定義是什麼含義是什麼我跟各位委員報告勞動部基本上面主管的是所有的國人的就業服務職業訓練跟相關的媒合也負責國內勞動力的提供我們其實針對所有15歲以上的工作人口通通都是在我們的照顧對象所以包括青年包括婦女 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3324.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3346.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
包括二度就業包括中高齡包括高齡者我們針對不同的年齡層別都有推出相應的計畫去做相關的處理那確實那個吳委員當時在提出壯世代之後他其實觀察到55歲也許有一些在勞動市場上應該要可以再做更積極的處理所以我們針對55歲以上發現確實有一些早退的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3351.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3377.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我們希望在因應高齡社會把這些人留在職場所以我們相應的有一些行政措施來做搭配所以確實也收到一些成果所以我一開始就跟各位報告說在勞動部的領域我們在中高齡及高齡者就會促進法這樣一個法制底下相關的事情我們都在持續的展開今天這一部法對我們來講那是一個提綱竊凌的部分對我們來講是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3379.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3402.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那但是他如果涉及到其他的面向,比如說涉及到教育、涉及到金融、涉及到產業發展、涉及到其他部分,那這個部分會不會因此有一些狀況,像剛才外務部呂氏講的說也許在他的業管的部分有一些需要再做討論的部分,那這些東西我們就沒有辦法幫其他部位做發言,我們就會請大家再多做討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3406.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3420.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
蘇勇副處長 行政委員 表現一下主席 各位委員 根本上我們明年馬上就要進入超高齡社會所以剛才提的因為壯世代確實在國際上是沒有定義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3421.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3421.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
吳春城議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3444.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3464.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
黃學芳委員所提的部分我倒是覺得是可以考慮的因為我們明年就進入超高齡的社會那我們當初替壯世代講第一個人才第二個產業發展我想這個部分是主要的當然涵蓋其他的業務部門的部分都可以在我們這個法裡面去處理所以如果以這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3467.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3468.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3492.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3513.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我剛才是支持黃委員所提的就是因為明年就要進入超高齡社會我們現在整個英式立島的部分講配合整個我們國內的這個社經環境的發展的時候我覺得那個名稱是比較貼切比較適合所以剛才提的部分是超高齡社會的人才及產業發展的促進法我就這樣就名稱來講或許這些剛才提的問題都沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3518.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3544.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
就是說吳委員可能現在已經在做譬如說勞動部他們現在已經在做的可能他原本就有用壯世代嘛那如果說吳委員你不是很堅持的話就是說其實立法的部分就是不是可以就是不要堅持壯世代可是行政單位他們在做的實際上在做的其實他們有很多就是用壯世代啊如果你不堅持的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3546.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3551.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
因為立法還會牽涉到其他部會,那定義的部分其實也很難定義。 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3573.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3576.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
65歲以上超過20%就叫做超高齡社會所以這個超高齡的定義是65歲以上,不是嗎?那個是指20%啦我們的福利法就是65啊,國稅標準就是65歲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3601.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3616.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們現在的世界嘉義科學會他們的定義是64歲又11個月以前都叫青年然後65歲到74歲11個月叫做壯年 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3620.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3634.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
然後75到84叫做前老期85到94叫中老期95到104歲叫老老期這個是世界嘉義協會我聽到也很爽 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3642.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3664.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
主席,我只是在想,因為大家還是糾結在講這個年齡層,對不對?但是事實上,如果真的有關於這個年齡層要分得這麼細的情況之下,大概就是權益政策的狀況。就剛好說什麼老人福利法,就是你要65歲以上你要給他什麼福利,可是現在看起來壯世代這個並不是一個權益政策,它是一個促進政策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3666.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3687.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以我認為這個名稱我是覺得沒什麼問題大家是可以往這方向思考我還是回過頭來剛剛我很感謝勞動部事實上勞動部今年開始認真在推動所謂的壯世代如果真的這麼有成效我覺得不需要拘泥在一直說因為真正我剛剛講到的關鍵點就是你要去分這個年紀就是45歲以上65歲以上補助什麼東西要給他什麼權益65歲以上健保 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3693.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3717.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
對,我不曉得為什麼一直要反對他的一個原因大家在用的時候都覺得他有明顯的成效那今天一直要去反對他到底是什麼原因會讓他有好像是洪水猛獸一樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3720.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3747.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
但是剛才為什麼談了一個必須要用堅持壯世代這個詞用一個超高的人不行因為關鍵就是在這個一個族群55歲55歲是一個在我們勞動力裡面當中是包括一個人的生涯當中這邊還有主計處的數據是一個斷崖式的一個分水嶺55歲有一個定義這是現在的新的現象而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3748.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3748.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
吳春城議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3771.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3792.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
很多的就是在目前的這些定義當中,他過了55歲就想要退休,退休以後就只剩下兩件事,游山玩水、寒意弄孫,然後整個人生,但是他有非常長的,他人生才過一半而已,但是我們舊的定義一直來定義他、催眠他,包括我們的政府的政策,依據這樣來設計政府的政策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3794.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3809.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
對這些人只剩下長照,就沒有別的政策,教育也不用,文化也不用,數位也不用,什麼都不用,所以這個是人設,我今天要談的就是人的設定的人設,人設設錯了,所有的政策就會錯誤。 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3810.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3839.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們現在對我們人民的認知的這個做到的必須要去調整調整在用這裡提出的政策你如果一直想要說過去有的全球到這裡都無法去解決壯世代現在提出來了為什麼產生這麼大的影響力就是他講對的話他針對的問題他對症下藥所以你只要把這個把它捏死用舊的東西把它捏死我不曉得目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3840.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3842.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
有什麼必要性?有什麼非要這樣做的必要性沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3845.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3855.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
主席我可不可以問一下就是說那個衛福部或勞動部針對我們目前45歲以上或者是其實勞動部應該有啦就是說不論是青年只要是勞工或者是這個45歲以上他還有工作能力你們應該也都會輔導他們去就業因為我在地方其實有很多其實他們即使是五六十歲那這個地方的這個就業輔戰也都會輔導他們然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3874.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3874.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3898.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3920.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這個吳委員講的就是目前各部會已經在做的如果說我們一直拘泥在比如說壯世代如果現在都已經在做了或者是我們的活動的名稱有很多也都改成壯世代那其實就是說如果改成壯世代的這樣的一個促進法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3920.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3943.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那也許所有的相關的全部都要改,所有的法全部都要改,那這個真的是一個大工程,所以我是希望就是說今天大家在這邊大家再思考一下,那我是不是可以請那個勞動部跟衛福部針對你們現在針對45歲以上或55歲以上你們在福島的,你們可不可以再說明一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3945.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3967.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
勞動部再做一點補充說明陳如一開始我跟各位委員報告的我們對於全民的人口只要15歲以上有工作意願或有工作能力的或者是相應的勞動人口我們通通都會有相應的計畫去推動所以我們對於青年我們有那個投資青年就業方案那對於婦女我們有付出江湖的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3968.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3991.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
對於中高齡我們有中高齡的計畫對於高齡者我們有高齡者的計畫吳委員當時在提到55歲的部分我們看到55歲確實也有一個可以努力的空間所以我們也針對55歲搭著壯世代這樣一個名詞我們也提了相關的計畫雖然我們在相關的法令裡面還是主要是向中高齡及高齡者促進法但是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3992.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4017.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
中高齡及中高齡者,就是45歲到未滿65歲的定義,在中間針對其中某一個特定的年齡層去做相應的一個計畫的推動,對我們來講是本來就是應該要做的。這是第一點作為報告。第二點,我超出了勞動部的部分,我看起來,因為我們一直在強調說涉及到其他部會的部分,我們要尊重其他部會的意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4018.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4040.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那看起來大家對於壯世代這樣一個只有55歲以上的部分過去幾次公聽會還有那個委員會審查的時候聽起來大概狀況會出在哪裡呢就從勞動部的角度而言我們規範55歲以上來做一個相應的措施是不會有問題的為什麼因為我們在工作人口上面一定是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4040.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4041.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
工作能力與工作意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4057.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4061.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我還是在強調說對勞動部來講我們對壯世代這樣一個概念我們確實也看到55歲有一些狀況我們針對55歲以上的就業的面向我們有相應的措施在推動這一定是沒有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4085.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4103.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們會來持續去努力至於其他部會的部分我們確實沒有辦法幫相關的部會去做發言只是過去這段時間看起來大家對於這樣一個概念主要是在擔心這些問題我們所觀察到的狀況會是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4109.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4132.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
總召、主席、還有各位委員大家好。衛福部在這邊做兩點簡單的說明,其實我們的立場其實也是跟勞動部一樣,其實對我們而言,我們基本上也是全年齡,我們不會就是說特別哪一個年齡層,本來衛生跟福利本來就是全民的一個共同的福祉。那麼當然對於65歲以上,我們有老人福利法的相關的規範等等這些, |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4133.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4149.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
如果發展性,其實我們也有做啊,兩個部分,第一個我們現在目前其實有關志工的部分,我跟各位報告,我們在55歲以上其實已經佔我們所有的這個志工的人數高達58.9,大概已經有大概將近快30幾萬還是60幾萬嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4155.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4181.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這是第一個有關於志工的這一個的那個部分另外第二個像有關於中高齡的那個部分其實我們國民健康署也有很多很多相關比如說賴清德總統現在目前在推動的這一個有關於那個888的這個慢性病的控制其實基本上也是針對我們的現在目前的這一個中高齡的那個部分來予以關心那所以其實基本上我們目前現有的發展性的部分其實我們也現在目前也已經有在做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4181.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4183.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
民不正則言不順,言不順則事不成,事不成則民無所,錯其手足。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4197.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4225.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這很簡單就是說我們現在如果說這一個我真的要非常佩服這一個吳委員他那本書我真的還有做筆記我真的非常佩服這樣的一個真的非常高瞻遠瞩的一個運動可是現在有一個問題因為我們現在要落實為立法落實為立法真的還是要講求因為這裡面的整個這個嚴格的年齡低要不然真的我們不是無所措其所足連官都無所措其所足 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4225.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4245.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
因為我們不知道它整個具體適用所以我是覺得就是說是不是就是說我們目前實質上我們也推動我們本部我們也以我們的立場我們覺得像黃秀芳委員剛剛所說的就是說如果不計較這個名稱那實質上面我們一樣可以來做是不是可以朝這個方向以上衛福部的建議 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4254.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4267.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我看這個名稱保留好了,說不下去了。我給你想想,我剛才這樣綜合,是不是用壯世代集中考慮,啪啦啪啦啪,這樣就好了,這樣兩個都有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4269.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4293.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我想行政單位最大的困惑是因為他們已經有年齡的定義那你現在改這個下去在年齡沒定義要很籠統所以他們的法上法上面不曉得要怎麼弄啦一個法規要施行細則辦法都會卡住會覺得很難過啦我還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4300.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4315.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我平常講,因為其實這也不是我主題啦,但是我蠻贊同這個概念,所以我還是想要講一下,你又加壯世代又加中高齡,那你不就又把壯世代跟中高齡加在一起,那大家聽了還是不開心啊。我剛剛在講的時候很多人點頭說被叫中高齡人不爽啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4317.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4335.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
不是 你就不懂 那這法就不用用啦 照樣用中高齡就業促進法 中高齡和高齡者就業促進法就好啦這跟那個沒有關係 我認為 我認同說這件事情改變觀念是有機會讓我們去面對人口衝擊的 不然下一代要養多少長者 你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4336.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4364.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
你現在每一年你投入一千億在做長照你用一千億去做少子化辦公室少子化辦公室很成功啊少子化越來越少啊那你長照也是一樣啊你每一年一直加錢進去結果我們的不健康餘命多少八九年那我們到底要不要用一個創新的思維去面對這件事情但是沒關係如果今天大家覺得一定要把它掛勾在一起也無所謂但是我要講清楚我的立場我認為這就是為什麼要叫壯世代的重點如果你最終還是要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4364.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4385.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
市長是在跟中高齡高齡者放在一起,那我們到底在做什麼?我的想法是這樣。現在行政院說要刷版本是真的沒有啦,說要刷一個版本出來,沒有反對,大家都說這樣說這樣沒有下文,有委員他們有跟你接洽嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4392.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4403.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
主席為什麼我一直舉手你都沒辦法然後一直連續都我們都沒辦法發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4413.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4420.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
政策應該要有延續性,法律名稱應該要清晰的讓人家一目了然,因為過去我們還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4440.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4465.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
尤其在講到定義的時候第一個學理上本來就不符合第二個是如果剛剛講勞動部的這個勞參率裏邊45歲到49歲是下降9%可是50歲才是真正進入到斷崖式的那50歲開始是下降17到55歲是下降20%以下所以如果這樣的狀況以下你從定義到底要回到學理的45歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4467.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4482.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
如果先不講名稱的話先回到那個學歷上我說一個事實上是我說中高年期老年期還有一個如果已經到八九十歲真的稱壯世代就會心情很開心就不是而且我們本來65歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4484 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4484.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好,那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4517.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4536.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝主席,我想大家都非常關心到底什麼樣的名稱能夠延續,不過我們也不要忽略人口結構改變以後造成對臺灣整體的影響,因為我們現在也知道明年就是超高齡社會,其實現在的年輕人和我們古早的年輕人的生活都不一樣, |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4540.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4568.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以未來對產業的影響非常非常的不一樣的情形之下我們現在如果說用壯世代又把這個年齡那麼樣的聚集在這個上面的話對現在社會的人不一定是適合像之前召委所提到的海洋的這個委員會對那個時候也大家沒有那個循環不過現在有那個循環我們如果現在頂可能10年20年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4569.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4597.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
基本上在人口結構改變下造成的影響是不一樣的所以我們立法還是要有一個比較長遠性的一些思維跟需求不是說我們現在覺得很好就用這樣的方法來立一個在執行上或者是造成的困擾以後你知道要改變事實上我們還是希望能夠前瞻而且能夠執行上有它的一個有效性跟它的連結性以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4604.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4605.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4626.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4643.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
律師,我能不能要求你把萬一用這個壯世代這個名稱之後,你的一些法規啊、你的實行細則、你的辦法、特管辦法,不管了,會有干戈的,把它列出來,讓我盤點一下,到底是多大的,好不好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4653.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4655.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
第一條 吳春城 你的意見呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4667.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4684.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那個漢格進展,我先說一個簡單的,就是我們主要,葉青雯剛才說的,我是怎麼說,因為對我們在行政官員在執行,真的要講求,就是說那個清楚定義。你若沒有清楚定義,說到民眾的人問說,那是怎麼,就是說,我們要爭辯嘛,有時候有55,有時候,剛剛葉青雯也有說,壯年運動會,30個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4695.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4698.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
勞動部已經發了98億他用壯世代名義他們在去做這些事情的時候為什麼沒有這些問題勞動部他們那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4714.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4715.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
中高齡就業促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4744.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4745.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
卓龍泰在行政院會當中就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4771.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4786.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
要讓壯世代持續的貢獻社會他已經把跟那個社會福利上次開的社會福利委員會當中他已經把這兩個事情區隔了變成兩個組一個就叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4788.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4812.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
應應高齡社會對策方案這邊有15個部會在投入另外一個叫壯世代社會參與方案這邊有14個部會在參與在行政院、社福委員會當中已經把這兩個分得很清楚了各位可以去看一下新聞所以我說委員如果你不堅持一定要立法的話其實現在目前就已經在做了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4813.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4818.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
市長我可不可以問一下你剛剛說55歲以上你們是用什麼樣的科目預算去做那個55歲壯世代的什麼就業的什麼計畫你們是用什麼樣的科目去做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4843.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4868.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我們有針對55歲以上特別用壯世代這樣名稱所以你們的預算也是有這樣壯世代的那個預算但是我們預算基本上勞動部的預算就是分的大概都是分就業服務職業訓練技能鑑定嘛就業服務裡面有針對特定對象跟一般的對象那中高齡45歲以上都是所謂我們的特定對象那我們特別針對55歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4870.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4893.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這部分在特別有一個特別的措施所以我們叫55plus或壯世代或什麼都有所以就是以45歲以上你們是用那個45歲以上去我們不同的年齡層有不同的計畫在推那真的55歲確實有一個特別的計畫在做處理但是不是只有55歲以上我們才處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4896.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4899.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
本日協商過程公開,發言內容均已錄影並列入紀錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4925.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4938.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
因人代繼續溝通取得共識,後續依立法院職權行使法第十二章相關規定,我們已請院長召開黨團協商會議,再進行協商。 |