| IVOD_ID |
163588 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163588 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-20T12:18:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-20T12:39:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3feaef107a98f0c945b306a0b867f43a495992f4538fe6f2817c1cbb294e2f3575783c786b3857c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:18:03 - 12:39:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：（上午）
邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部就「就業服務法第46條，80歲以上長者聘請外籍看護免巴氏量表上路，對重症家庭的衝擊與配套措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
（下午1時30分）
繼續審查
一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、委員劉建國等16人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案。
三、委員邱志偉等19人擬具「病人自主權利法第八條、第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員李柏毅等16人擬具「病人自主權利法第九條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「病人自主權利法增訂第十六條之一條文草案」案。
【逐條討論】） |
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請陳英文發言稍微就這樣走了嗎 |
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謝謝主席我先會議詢問一下您可以先請坐是這樣我們最近其實立法院加檢都有一些同仁做聽力測驗的時候其實耳朵聽力有些受損 |
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60.577 |
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那聽力受損呢其實並不是說對於這個聲音大小聲聽不見倒不是這樣而是對於這種高頻或低頻好特定這些頻率的這個聲音會聽不清楚聽得到聲音但聽不清楚那當然這個長期有跟在處於這種噪音或者是那種就很大聲的這種環境是有關係的 |
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62.156 |
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那所以我要在這邊也替大家爭取一下我們這個健康的權益因為畢竟我們未還掌管這個監督勞動部衛福部跟環境部那重點是這個勞工申請職災如果真的說因為工作環境的關係聽力受損那鑑定之後我們還可以申請職災但是大部分現場是公務人員還有我們這種公職人員是沒有這種待遇的 |
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92.563 |
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119.556 |
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那因為我們雖然立法院總務處幫我們設了那個分貝的那個測試的那個東西但是我覺得我也不是很確定說這個這個角度我們在執行是不是我們會看那邊還是看哪邊但是那個數字他就算超標了也不會逼也不會叫所以講話的人就不會有就不會控制那我要提的是 |
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120.396 |
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148.285 |
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在人在70分貝就長期大概10分鐘連續處於這個70分貝以上的這個你會覺得心情很煩躁常常心情煩躁可能這個未來憂鬱症躁鬱症點點點可能都會跑出來再來還有些立委真的聲音很大常常超過80分貝那這個真的就是對聽力會直接造成損害所以這個部分 |
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150.031 |
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168.401 |
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你們我不是開玩笑我真的建議大家年紀也有了做聽力測驗特別這個音頻高頻低頻到底聽不聽得到大家真的要去檢查一下那這個部分我想身為身為這個未還委員會的委員我們沒有辦法去要求就是說那個委員的音量 |
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169.625 |
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192.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在每一次質詢都要控制在這個70分貝以下但是我們有因控啊因控在外面你坐在那邊你看得到那個分貝的數字嗎你如果看不到那我們可能也是要跟總務講一下看看要怎麼樣讓你隨時掌控這個數字因為你們坐在這邊是整天連續幾個小時耶我這樣講沒有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對啊 在座各位都是公務人員你們是不能申請這種職災的賠償喔我先把醜話講在前頭我剛剛查了一下法規那個意外死亡有 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這個部分我想起碼這是未還委員會我們應該要以身作則第一個這個側分貝的東西看這個位置是不是能夠讓大家很清楚特別是在講話的人那最好超標的時候他會逼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
247.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
會叫提醒說一定要小聲一點因為除了很大聲以外講話時間也不會控制啊還要看心情你管了一下搞不好又吵起來會更大聲更久所以我想我真的觀察很久也忍耐很久了我覺得為了大家聽力的健康請我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
衛環委員會以身作則那當擔任主席 擔任召委的人也可以對於這個我們質詢的環境這個噪音 音量可以有所掌控我想做這樣沉痛的呼籲跟建議好 謝謝主席你有要回應一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
285.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
謝謝陳燕委員剛剛的引重心長給大家的提示因為剛好我們趙委不在我會把您的意見充分的反映給他做參考跟次長一樣主席可以做才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不過剛剛建議到說如果他的音量或者是CO2的濃度超到一定的標準而且是損害到健康的話我們可以洽請秘書處可以反映說是不是有其他的機制可以讓現場的人知道我們所處的環境裡面應該要多住哪一些我想主席跟我就在這裡具體建議了我們這個部分一定要來做改善跟控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
316.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好那謝謝那主席我要麻煩請這個我們勞動部次長請陳次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
324.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
349.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
市長好 在這次丹納市颱風造成南部地區發生嚴重的災情很多的台南沿海地區的鄉親們屋頂都被吹走了其實看了也是讓人覺得很揪心很同情我知道說你們勞動部也成立了四個災後防護服務站 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
350.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
以及這個宣導團那部長在7月26號的時候也有去現場去關心也制正了一些宣導品那本席也給予這個勞動部的同仁予以肯定但是呢在這個災後防護它不是兒戲我們要用很嚴肅的這個態度來面對它一年疫情都會受到我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
394.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
全國同胞的這個嚴格檢定然後特別是災區的這個鄉親們那我想要先請教一下次長這次的這個防護你們好像比較偏重在這個失眠粉塵的這個部分那除了N95口罩以外你們還有提供什麼防護物資嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
399.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
415.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟委員報告 除了那個N95口罩 我們還有護目鏡還有防護手套 還有防護衣你們還有一個 太空包你們還提供了太空包我們是裝在防護包裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
438.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以你不叫太空包那個叫防護包是嗎那個是裝實名的是太空袋我們俗稱為太空包太空袋那個是袋子所以我講太空袋太空包防護包你們都聽得懂啦都是一樣的東西不一樣防護包是給個人的好那就是那個叫什麼太空 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
太空包裝的是那個裝你們去裝那些拆下來的拆下來的石棉瓦拆下來的石棉瓦是放在放在太空包好那沒有錯那沒有錯好那我剛一開始就沒有講錯啊對啊那你幹嘛生出那麼多名詞來 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 那次長我們再看一下這個N95口罩其實要能夠就是密合才有這個防護的效果嘛那你們去輔導同仁有教導民眾如何佩戴嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告因為在我們的這個宣導品裡面是有那如果說影片的話我們在網路上指南水官網上也有這個配戴這個N95口罩的一個示範的影片因為我知道部長也有去示範那請問一下部長鬍子這麼濃密戴N95口罩是戴得老的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
530.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
基本上那個跟委員報告N95我們買的是那個3M的基本上這個佩戴的話它是符合一般人的一個聯型所以部長算一般人嗎我提這個我也是很認真的提出這樣的問題因為很多人他們會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
554.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
鬍子嗎 會留鬍子有的是上面八字鬍 有的是下面烙塞鬍烙塞鬍應該是面積更大吧那你們遇到這樣的狀況的時候在宣導上是不是也要做一些特別的處理因為我的疑問是這樣到底戴不戴得牢 如果沒有問題你就跟我說沒有問題就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
556.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
572.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是 它這個跟尾巴它是有一個後面有一個豎影帶基本上戴上去的話我們測試來講就是你在呼吸的時候不要吸到外面的空氣從旁邊進來基本上它就是比較一般性的測試啦對 所以有鬍子是有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
573.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
595.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為空間 空氣可能會比較多但是因為我們接下來我們今天在討論失眠啦所以我現在提出這個問題是很嚴肅的問題嘛那畢竟就是說就是說你看處理這個到要處理這個失眠的這些飛機我們都需要用到N95的口罩了啊所以戴的勞是很要戴勞是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
596.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
621.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那如果說真的有隔離到失眠失眠纖維它就會吸附在口罩的這個罩體上所以民眾取下來的時候會不會沾在手上然後再間接進入人體有沒有這樣的可能性跟委員報告失眠的危害主要是吸入所以這個口罩如果他當天使用完的話我們是建議要拋棄 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
625.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
如果手上有接觸到的話那現在的宣導的我們的衛教裡面也是希望要洗手把他洗乾淨因為我現在講的每個環節其實都有可能民眾都會吸入這些纖維所以我提到的我也希望你們能夠針對我的問題來做實質的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
647.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
665.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那你們應該有提供這個食物上有用的資訊例如說身體皮膚衣服上也有可能都有食棉纖維那當地呢又停水停電洗澡是不方便的如何有效的解決這個食棉暴露的問題我們應該要更專業才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
669.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這邊我們來看一張這張圖在失眠放大之後失眠瓦放大之後它就是無數根的這個鋼針看起來很恐怖那這些失眠纖維被吸入我們這個人體之後這些鋼針就會刺入肺泡然後造成慢性發炎潛伏期大概15年到35年左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
694.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
707.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
但通常等到確診的時候差不多都是晚期必死無疑了那你再看一下這張照片我們看一下這個勞動部的人全副武裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
708.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
735.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是呢 中間的民眾毫無防護那你們不是要去做宣導嗎那這種場景是很奇怪的啊好 到底說這樣子的這個輔導防護你們覺得有達到效果嗎你們就請給別人看 別人等到死那沒關係這個我們再來看接下來這張照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
737.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
761.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
石棉瓦堆積的場地有人戴口罩有人沒有戴底下還有一支大鐵錘表示就是說這是破碎用的工具嘛那難道不是應該就是說要拉起這個封鎖線嗎要稍微隔離一下也都沒有啊然後呢我另外我再講一下剛剛講那個太空包 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
762.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
776.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
太空包我認為根本就不適合拿來裝這些石棉瓦的廢棄物因為體積的關係你的太空包就這麼大而已然後你必須要先集穗 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
778.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
798.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好 然後去毀損這些石棉瓦讓它變小一點之後然後就 然後再放進去嘛那這個積碎這個過程你就會造成這個石棉瓦纖維就會易散啊好 所以這個是你們要未來要去檢討思考的每個人都在那邊敲敲打打這個是 這反而是很不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
800.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
822.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那我想這樣子的這個作業環境除了就是說勞工很危險之外呢附近的人也會遭受到暴露嘛特別是我要講的是你們安研所的人都是專門在負責這些勞工安全衛生的這個研究跟宣導嘛那還有包括你們那個勞動部這個重建中心的這些同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
823.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
845.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
難道這些都沒有具備這些常識嗎好這些防護的這些常識應該都是他們要最清楚比其他人更清楚才是啊結果是做這樣子的示範那我還想問一下就是說你們勞動部的安嚴所有沒有去做失眠濃度的檢測有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
848.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
868.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
有做嗎目前是跟那個我們內部已經跟研究所談好了就是外界在關心說這一次的一個在這個現場的一個暴露情形所以我們研究所是準備開始要進行的所以現在才準備開始進行前面那個敲敲打打的去搜的那個都來不及了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
872.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
893.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
8月6號我們自己的勞檢機構也有派員到現場沒關係反正你們已經啟動不管來不來得及總是比沒有好那這次的這個實面暴露高風險的事件有這個專業SENS的單位他們一定會去做研究然後把相關作業的勞工名單清澈都建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
893.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
907.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
就是說萬一將來有人得到這個肩皮細胞癌的時候才可以得到應有的補償你才有的追蹤嘛所以我想要請教一下就是說我們剛剛看了幾張照片這些人有沒有造冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
910.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
935.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
各位報告我們現在跟那個微服部也討論過了如果是涉及到這個營造業者業者的話他名單未來我們會送給我們我們會到我們的勞保局那邊去追蹤我講的不是這些營造業者是這些穿制服不是你們的人嗎看前面幾張照片這些穿那個背心的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
936.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
943.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那是我們的輔導員他們有沒有有名車我們也有好就要好好的追蹤好 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
946.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
968.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們再看簡報6的部分右邊是環境部棚部長在風災後他們受損的石棉瓦的暫時放置為了避免石棉瓦的纖維易散所以他們用帆布先整個蓋起來專業程度就立判高下 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
969.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
997.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
他們就沒有用那個太空包啦所以在這張照片比較起來這個環境部就是勝這看起來比較專業那我想這一次你們這一次就是說我的形容叫做我不認為這個叫做有以身作則啦反正你們這次去做輔導那除了好像比較偏重在這個失眠以外像其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
998.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1010.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
跌倒 踩踏 切割 穿刺 滑倒 高架作業墜落都沒有看到這個災後防護我想請教一下次長你們有沒有統計這一次的這個服務及輔導的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1012.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1036.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
報委員謝謝委員苦民所苦有關於實免法這部分環境部第一時間在台南跟嘉義都設置了堆置場但是相應的拆除的工作在一開始的現場因為有大概3萬棟左右的房屋屋頂先受損所以大家剛開始的時候是蓋房部然後下面的實免會有一些問題所以勞動部紅部長第一時間就要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1037.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1056.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
指安署的副署長下去前進指揮所然後設四個服務站相關的輔導團先備制了一些物資讓大家緊急的用但是實際上真的實棉拆除是一個專業的工作那這部分未來應該目前我們跟環保署大家在處理當中應該有專業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1057.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1081.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
業者來做處理那相關的從業人員中間有接觸到這一些實名軌跡的我們都會把它造冊來追蹤相應的一些後續的注意那至於說其他的部分當然主要會是在剛開始的時候疫情期間是在最早的時候爬上爬下屋頂會不會有一些墜落的問題所以後來相關的屋頂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1082.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1103.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
相應的處理從業中心是請國內的相關營造業者以一環計及的方式用公辦的方式去做相應的協助那在相關的處理當做過程裡面包括鷹架的搭設各方面都會都有跟相關的從業人員做一些說明和處理那至於剛才我們所講的數據的部分我們會後再來做統整 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1105.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1126.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好那就是你們那個成果數據再麻煩給我們辦公室那另外就是說我快速再問一下我也我覺得蠻疑惑就是說那難道就是說只有這個台南有防護站然後雲林嘉義跟高雄他們都沒有是不是是沒有防護的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1128.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1154.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這邊因為實棉是早期的產品那洪部長在有指示研究所的唯平主要去做實棉濃度的處理這是第一件事那第二個部分就是說不好意思那個災後防護不會只有實棉我前面講實棉我後面已經開始講到那個啦跌倒踩踏點點點等等的那個很多很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1156.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1171.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這種華島高架作業墜落的這種災後防護了這邊我們在相應的措施上會再來注意所以現在目前雲林嘉義高雄都沒有嗎都有 我們有些是透過你們有去台東嗎台東啊 台東有去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1178.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1203.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
就沒有嗎我才去一個像學校棒球場牛棚屋頂整個吹破那個到時候也是會有可能可能那種就是高價墜落這種作業的問題也是會有啊我是提醒你們稍微注意評估一下啦那這樣來說如果再有類似的風災勞動部會比照這一次就說再去現場提供這個災後防護的輔導嗎未來都會吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1206.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1227.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
好那那個就是說因為以前是沒有看過你們有這樣的服務雖然是說災後過了一段好一段時間才去但是就是說還是要給你們肯定啦但我希望這個未來期程可能要就是說要加速要加速那最後我再提醒勞動部就是說我們要去輔導民眾除了說專業要足夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1230.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1240.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我覺得跟在地災民這個感同身受設身處地的去服務這個也是要很注意那不是說我們穿著背心就代表專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1242.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1267.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
要用心認真相信民眾就會有感那提供服務的人員一定要有訓練同時還要有專業才可以提供更好的服務不要說只是說只是去送東西然後沒有考慮說民眾會不會用到可以用多久我想這樣的服務很快就不會受到就會人家會起反感啦所以我想這些細節我在這邊提醒要請你們要重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1269.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1277.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好 謝謝委員有關於相關的細節的部分我們會把它Reit得更清楚謝謝我們的指點我們將來在相關的部分再把它做得更完整一點好 謝謝好 謝謝 |