| IVOD_ID |
163558 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163558 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-19T16:17:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-19T16:32:44+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/906c3280ae286f11bfaf19da94bb16b118ad07c9952a2a5359ecb5ed36d74995057babbb10d0fc445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:17:04 - 16:32:44 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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謝謝院長 主席 我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢學員好卓院長好 辛苦了今天我們的專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.537 |
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那是針對我們這次應該說114年的預算有關這636億當初通刪沒有指定具體刪減的內容本席在這裡要還原也要釐清一些程序還有一些依法的事實首先第一個我們當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.704 |
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73.214 |
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這個沒有具體刪減的內容本席要就過去立法院你也擔任過立法委員我們立法院審查預算的時候按照慣例我們在最後二讀三讀協商的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.828 |
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97.879 |
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立法院都會請行政院的各部會來協調通商的預算當時我們立法院的行政同仁邀請行政單位但行政單位都不出席這個是杯葛杯葛我們這個協商的程序並非如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.674 |
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110.989 |
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這個本席要請教您您當時知道行政院已經不跟立法院溝通這636億元的金額和數字分配嗎 您當時知道嗎我們是在表決之後才知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.84 |
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132.816 |
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這個三檢我們的通山這個提案早就出來了而且我們在程序過程中行政院都不派員說明請問誰決定不要派員的以前行政院各單位都會很積極的來跟立法院這邊溝通為什麼獨獨今年沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
134.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
158.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
至少在院本部跟秘書長這個層級上面我們沒有被接到通知要來進行任何關於這個通商部分的任何協商事件有 立法院有通知而且立法院的這個官員也有通知各部會所以這個是第一個我們行政院不能夠蓄意杯葛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.502 |
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181.899 |
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那再來就是過去依照案例都會提出既然是通刪都會提出刪減清單為什麼這個行政院這一次也可以不回應都沒有提出而且消極不作為整個杯葛立法院的審查這個是我們整個憲政運作最壞的案例因為馬上下個會期下個月9月 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.8 |
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197.508 |
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115年的總預算又要開始審查了所以本席針對這一塊這個是一開始的原因我看今天的質詢裡面我們政天才委員也有稍微提到所以這一塊本席要特別的提出來強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.929 |
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222.482 |
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我們行政院惡意的杯葛 這個也等於是爛拳行政院沒有惡意杯葛我們也沒有接到任何被要求來協調的時間再來 往年都有通山之力但是今年這個通山數額之大過往從來沒有數額大小 這個是另一個議題我記得90年 林國90年度有一次有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.903 |
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241.964 |
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300多億的一個通商後來這個差減數大概是幾十億有經過一個調整雙方同意了來調整但是今天636億從來沒有做下來說這636億數這麼大行政院如何接受所以內容如何來拚這個部分就是立法院邀請行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.845 |
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261.053 |
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集體杯葛不來啊沒有杯葛沒有杯葛這個所以現在這個這個就螺旋門或許是有時間差的誤會但沒有杯葛我們願意來我們希望115年的總預算審查的時候不要有這種情況可以嗎可以嗎這一次我們的補救方法這個最佳預算這等一下我們來談好接著 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
261.892 |
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289.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們看到沒有提到這個刪減的清單立法院尊重行政院讓你636億給你一個彈性調整的空間空間跟彈性讓你可以兼顧經費的節約以及行政效能結果我們接著看我們尊重行政院給行政院空間結果行政院怎麼樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
302.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
違法挪移院長您本身是學法律的本席要一一的來讓我們應該要讓全國的民眾知道首先第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
305.871 |
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334.765 |
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行政院把這636億整個轉嫁到一般性地方政府的一般性補助款但是我們在整個114年度總預算案通案刪減的這個內容裡面案由的第一行就講他是針對中央各機關及所屬通案刪減然後接著底下有十幾項所以很明顯明顯的寫出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
359.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這邊有嘛 對中央各機關中央各機關及所屬他通案刪減所以我不相信我們整個行政院會不知道啊他怎麼可以變成是地方性的這個一般性的地方政府的一般性補助款這第一個再第二個第二個是我們114年通過的總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
整個三讀通過的總預算有很多內容其中第26款來下一頁第26款第一項針對直轄市以及縣市一般性補助款是2501億1279萬照列院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這麼明確怎麼這636億會變成這個一般性的轉嫁到地方委員上一張圖下面有一行字是叫做從其他項目自行刪減自行調整幫你回頭看一下對其他項目但是也是在中央各機關級所屬其他項目是指中央各機關級所屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
420.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是以其他項目刪減替代科目自行調整非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對 是在他是架構在中央各機關及所屬不是直轄市及一般縣市政府他把各機關都列出來在文字上都有了沒有列 就是其他項目其他項目 刪減替代這個真的 院長您念法的不要跟我玩文字遊戲接著 接著沒有沒有 接著 接著我們下一頁沒有嗎我們那個114年通過的總預算對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
454.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們通過三讀的照列這個照列是地方直轄市及縣市一般性補助款完全照列啊當初我們在8月30號的文當中有提到如果經過審查之後有變動我們就會依這個審查的結果預調您在報告中特別提到這一點所以本席接著就請教您你說你可以依法來調整請問你依哪一條法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你依哪一條法律你可以動用到這個地方政府的一般性補助法好太好了來秀出來中央對直轄市及縣市政府的補助辦法院長這邊明確列出來第4條第5條第6條第12條第13條請問地方政府犯了哪一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
533.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
沒有犯哪一條行政院也沒有犯哪一條啊也是被刪了1439億所以就說這些地方政府的一般性補助款他如果有法律補助辦法有規定他如果有執行效能低落他開源節流的績效很差還是他依法該徵收而沒有徵收的都沒有犯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
533.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後你一視同仁的這個刪減 這不是行政院的要行政院自行刪除是犯了剛剛委員說的哪一條是低落呢還是行政院自行刪除是犯了哪一條這個刪除他不是犯哪一條 他就是立法院針對通案刪減 我還沒講完要行政院準結經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
578.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
要行政院準決經費所以你不用反問我我是在請教您您依法是依哪一個法我們現在對於地方你們把這636億轉嫁過去是完全違法違憲的這不是轉嫁過去就是我剛剛早上說的源頭的水沒有了那支流的水當然就會減少這必然的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不是你源頭你不能全部混在一起這個刪讀通過的他有哪些能夠刪哪些不能刪的然後照列的那這樣變成行政院完全不用依法行政可以違法亂紀 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
605.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有財政紀律院長這個很可怕耶人家說風行草原上行下效所以白紙黑字全國民眾完全沒有被遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
照憲法 照預算法 不能隨意增加稅出要跟行政院徵詢 這個也沒有履行我們現在在討論 這636億不能夠轉嫁到直轄市及地方政府的一般性補助款我在跟您談這個你行政院這個作為 你是帶頭違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
657.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那立法院在三行政院1439議席之後也應該想到要我們通山636的時候也應該想到所以院長您講不出來沒有依法沒有依法我依這個辦法有依法所以院長只要您願意您承認這是一個錯誤的決策我覺得您的幕僚真的給您錯誤的決策沒有錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
659.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
672.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我必須講 本席必須說我們都是中華民國的國民我們就像一家人OK 今天不能夠假設真的中央政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
673.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
行政院各部會 你錢真的怎麼樣挪不出來可以跟立法院協調啊你不能用綁架 你綁架什麼你綁架所有區立委心中的那塊軟肋最軟的那塊肉 你就像家人今天家人 你真的預算 經費怎麼樣我們可以溝通協調 溝通協調之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
699.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
718.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 你要追加 我們經過溝通協調可以可是你們用了最錯誤的方法你綁架地方 綁架人民把預算刪減之後 把財化調整之後讓掌握掌櫃的人要去借錢來做這些事情你們的這個行為行為違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
737.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你違反財政紀律而且你跟全國民眾你這樣講根本就是欺騙民眾我們如果違反財政紀律我們不可能有那麼多的稅計剩餘我們累積了那麼多的稅計剩餘現在卻必須去舉債來編特別預算這難道是一家人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
738.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
755.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以家人會這麼做嗎所以我這個當然這有很多我們其他可以談的但是我現在在談你們選擇這個行為這個是最卑劣的行為我們是被動的最卑劣你今天所以你院長你就承認了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
756.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你今天你是在做政治的操作你操作你讓地方民眾而且你這些錢你故意犧牲孩子的營養午餐長輩的照護 偏鄉的救護還有教育的資源育兒津貼甚至地方的救災經費所以我們115年預算馬上要審 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
784.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
811.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們真的希望行政院不要這樣不要違法亂紀我們立法院一切依法你們也要依法行政那當然有自愛難行的本席也認同我們可以溝通甚至你們提出來追加預算這都是正確的政治的操作所以我們今天共同來解決問題希望追加預算下禮拜能夠被大院所支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
812.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
833.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
您立刻撥補這個636億給地方追加預算是另外一回事 你不能夠挾持地方啊這樣是錯誤的行為行政院不是印鈔機 不是魔術師啊沒有錢就是沒有錢這一些錢是造劣 你怎麼會沒有錢這一些錢是造劣 已經被刪減掉啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
834.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
863.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
錢是在啊沒有啊那好本席現在請教你不是本席請教你我們我們這個那這樣你說錢都用光我們針對中央各機關所屬通案刪減請問通案刪減適用的中央各機關所屬他整個的經費總經費是多少你們有統計嗎本席跟行政院相關單位要到我到我要質詢都不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
865.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那如果你們有這麼精準的去計算 院長你應該很清楚不是稅出 而是我們針對通案刪減的對象中央所屬機關這些可以通案刪減的他的總經費是多少 303億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
882.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
896.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不是你那個303億是我們已經列出來要刪我指的是他的總預算總預算有多少可以很清楚的算出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
897.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
915.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那你們應該算出來啦 怎麼到現在本席藥都不給其中有的出國旅費被刪了60%有的特別費全刪 有的教育費全刪刪多少 那你們要看你今年比去年你浮邊了多少你增加了多少 你沒講 所以院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
916.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
929.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
今年要再審預算我們只希望行政院要依法行政報告委員 今年的3兆1325億的稅出扣掉2806億的行政預算 跟去年差不多好 謝謝徐新委的質詢也謝謝卓院長備詢 |