| IVOD_ID |
163555 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163555 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-19T15:18:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-19T15:33:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/906c3280ae286f114fe51e2eccd6279b18ad07c9952a2a53c376a4f2be5d241c587fe82801ebd7d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:18:14 - 15:33:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.232 |
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52.75 |
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邱委員好 院長好首先我要代表苗栗縣謝謝院長在這一次一般性補助款給苗栗的援助當然也謝謝我們陳主席長的聯繫當然這個事情是一歸一 二歸二我還是要把這個事情把它理清楚我請院長我們先看一下我們確認一下我們這個圓餅圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
86.217 |
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那灰色的部分是我們中央法定的支出中央法定支出包括公務員薪水以及其他法律義務支出還有就是一般性的補助款那這些是立法院不能刪行政院也不能刪不能隨意變動的還有地方的計畫型補助是這樣嗎以剛剛那個圖來看各種補助都會規定他應該有所補助的項目但是補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
比例是行政院跟地方可以在透過財政結構的不同而加以討論出來的行政院認為已經沒有多餘的財源的時候地方財源也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有所爭域那我們就會有這個調整的空間所以這個是在補助的項目當中我們做一些拙減補助而已我們再講我們再看另外一張文字敘述洪匡的部分有沒有寫錯他說公務員薪資及已簽約需履約的等法律義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
149.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
加上2500億一般性補助款都是行政和立法部門不能變動的這個部分應該是沒有彈性中央法定支出這樣有寫錯嗎但是它是一個項目的指定它並沒有定額或是定比例所以額數比例就是一個行政院依照政府國家財政的結構來調整因為你們來的公文裡面就叫我們不能動了嘛為什麼你們自己還在動呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
176.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對不起行政院怎麼可以去刪呢我要問的是這個就是因為立法院要求行政院自行刪除636億我們可以自行調整的部分我們就經過很多次的計算之後我們盤點出來各項可能立法院有刪除嗎立法院沒有刪除立法院沒有刪除的地方是這個一般是補助款但是立法院要求行政院自行調整那你們不會調啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你們自己不會刪嗎還是說我們來幫你刪地方信 一般信補助款立法院一塊錢都沒有動的原因有兩個一個是遵循法的原則另一個是我們都知道這些經費對地方來講是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
213.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但行政院跟我們認為的中華民國的法律不太一樣都會自己發明解釋變成民進黨政府的抄議創新版3月21號的財化法總統公告以後足記處4月23號發的這張公文給地方說中央對地方的一般性補助款要扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
215.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
而且主計當初 當初院長給三個方案一個是三在席一個是三地方補助款跟在席各辦另外一個是三地方補助款我們院長是直接拍板就是三地方補助款這樣對吧這樣主計的說法對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
263.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
很多的方案才去做一個模擬看什麼樣的刪減對我們現在這個行政體系在運作方面最不會有困難所以後來才決定你刪減選擇三地方補助款這個來講說就第一次違法了同時也說明院長感受不到地方的需求所以院長我認為說你不能說我們在野黨不了解地方也不了解地方政府的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當初在刪減中央政府總預算的時候這種需求何在呢對 你現在要用追加預算來平行民怨但是又拿不出合法的預算用預算法79條的理由來追加就已經是第二次違法了你現在用這個來追加也是陷害我們在野黨不義嘛我們是依照預算法來辦理依照預算法的內容規定來辦理追加預算是讓你們統三 讓行政院好做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對不對那我們也都知道這筆錢不能刪可是你偏偏去刪了這一個現在拿回來補助如果我們給你通過如果給你通過那就失去我們原本預算的意義如果不過你就說我們自己刪的往年有統三第一個數額沒這麼大統三的結果都是經由兩院協調出來的而不是像今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
金額這麼龐大而且不經過跟行政院的協調就要求行政院自行刪除你一直說沒有辦法刪嘛我來跟你講啦你不會刪我來幫你刪就是說我們內政部長不是說嗎那個中華人民共和國是一個國家那就是外交部了嘛對不對那所以陸委會所以這件事情就是外交部的事陸委會是不是就會裁撤了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這樣就有80幾萬外交部變端交部而且還不懂國際禮儀預算這麼多也沒有發揮功能所以先把中華民國的人民照顧好砍一砍幾十億也有文化部拿錢太多拿去補助罷免文宣沒有善盡驗收的職責計畫可以砍一砍至少幾十億每個部會都有負責治安的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
383.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們都不需要治安民眾也認為我們速發部是酬庸的單位連民進黨委員都說速發部只有總機的功能所以我們國家都不需要治安所以就直接把它廢掉你不是說每個部會都有了嗎這樣就有300多億光電 光儲 風電 開發問題一堆你們不先檢討還要硬推經濟部把這些標案跟開發先砍掉就好了就上百億我相信你會得到掌聲 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
413.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
邱委員這句話如果列入國會紀錄將來來檢討一定有很多人會拿這個來當作一個非常可笑的一個內容你要把國家的能源政策全部刪掉外交部全部刪掉自然全部刪掉你可以檢討沒有叫你全部刪掉我沒有叫你裁撤外交部喔你要搞清楚我是叫你裁撤陸委會把陸委會裁撤掉對啊你不是說是國對國關係不是嗎那為什麼不撤掉呢那再來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
415.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
437.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
再來看我們一個影片萊爾校長說不是多數贏就可以這有符合你現在的中心思想嗎對不起 我不曉得你這個話從哪裡來的院長你以現在的認知中華民國是民主國家嗎今天我們可以站在這裡對話我們就是一個民主國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
438.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
460.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以你也不認同萊爾校長講的話嘛我不知道你在講的是誰我沒有說他是誰就是萊爾校長我不知道這個人你說的是誰沒有看過是不是沒有看過待會再放一次這是一個影片啊待會我加到你的like可以嗎我加到你的like裡面可以嗎加到我的like裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
486.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好不好 不要講這個也不用去說你認不認識我只是問你說你認不認同他的話因為8月1號立法院的決議要求行政院主計處必須依照立法院當初刪減的總預算的決議去調整這個部會的預算同時立即撥付地方的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
487.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
513.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那當年表決結果有57人贊成 48人反對 一人棄權你現在又不要照這個表決的結果來執行所以是民進黨說可以才可以是嗎我不是照表決結果的執行但是我今天送出來的最佳預算就是在解決共同的問題你那個是還是不承認你當初的錯啊你還是把這個東西丟回來給我們把這個球丟來丟去 這樣有意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
514.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我只是不能錯上加錯原始的錯到了我們身上再加一個錯這不能動的就是不能動如果你其他的部會我們常常講 講了好幾次如果說你認為其他部會有些自在難行的部分你可以針對這件事情來追加碼你這樣整包丟回來就有點不尊重立法院了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
560.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這也是跟各部位商討過有各部位提出需要追加的預算程序跟內容所以依照這個來提出的878億的追加預算我知道你會用光劍不知道你什麼時候還學的茅山法術用這個借室黃魂都會的預算法有告訴你可以這樣做嗎就是說你說這個叫解決問題茅山道士的這個借室黃魂也可以叫做延續生命 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
562.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
今天我們討論的是如何解決各部分跟地方的問題我們是在彌補立法院刪減預算之後造成行政院我們是在彌補立法院刪減預算之後行政院所造成的自然難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
585.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
607.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 你們想挑戰人民的底線所以我提出的方式 你們的耐性還剩下多少提出的方式是在彌補立法院造成刪減預算之後行政院的自在難行你們就是想只要錢離開以後每年都可以先刪減地方補助款我們在這邊是一步一步都不能退我也希望立法院以後審查預算不得再用這樣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
608.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
630.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
違反憲法的精準規定而且要行政院就推下去636億這樣的事件應該有的一般性補助款一毛錢都不能少而且你們沒有權力苛扣因為這是依法編列的所以在8月1號的表決但是很遺憾我看不到我們民進黨委員不願意跟地方站在一起你應該很清楚這不是中央的恩賜 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
630.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
654.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
而是依法本來就應該足而撥付給地方的錢這點沒有討價還價的空間我希望院長今天提出的追加預算就是希望中央跟行政立法兩位共同為中央跟地方解決問題極權的國家希望這個院長你們再思考一下另外我再講財化法我直接問剛剛我有看了一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
656.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
682.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
王文威委員剛剛他的質詢跟我的題目差不多就是說我直接問你115年的總預算編列的依據是不是用新的修正的才化法才化法來上路來編列明年的總預算我們是依照總統所公告的才化法的內容來編列沒有錯所以剛剛我有聽到就是說我們是以前2501億來做基底是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
688.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
717.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
一般性補助是在審查的時候在修法的時候有下了這麼一條規定這也是前所未有的我覺得這個也是侵犯行政院編列預算的權利但是已經法律已經生效了我們另外試圖用其他的方式來做做其他的救濟但是我們還是依照總統所公布的財化法生效的財化法財化法的文字清清楚楚寫了不得低於這個前一年的預算過去所沒有過的一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
719.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
737.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
前置行政院編列預算權利的一種方式這一點你們照做我是給你們肯定我也覺得這是對的那我希望說在這個前提之下我們把這個預算好好的整理出來主席長我也可以跟您講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
737.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
765.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
如果在這個方面你們編列之後我碰到什麼問題我們在野黨的立委我相信都是大門打開來可以坐下來好好談如果你們碰到的問題真的是我們認為你能說服大家說這個問題確實存在我們大家都很願意坐下來談我希望行政院跟立法院不是對立的單位也不是兩個對立的一個機關我們是為這個國家為這個地方來好好做事情這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
766.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
796.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
像這次我們的風災如果我們有多的稅計剩餘我們可以直接用稅計剩餘來編列特別預算那現在我們必須舉債再如我們日前到苗栗去關於這種地方道路的開通我們現在還有能力來協助地方未來這種能力顯然上市所以我剛剛聽王國威委員的時候您有講到我們的就是計畫型的補助會做調整對吧是這樣嗎 其他還有沒有調整的部分主席想請問一下還有沒有調整的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
797.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
809.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
準備中在籌備中已經8月底要送出來了嘛 剩下幾天餒對 8月29送你可以先透露嘛 你大概會調整什麼我們還在 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
811.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
836.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
計劃型補助我認同如果你其他的錢都是照那個我們講的一開始這樣編列的時候那我也贊成說這個計劃型補助可以做調整這個當然是本來就是可以的這個因為地方有錢了你們本來就是可以去做這個調整這個我是支持的委員很清楚特別統籌統籌分配稅款會多4000億左右到地方去分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
837.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
865.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以這個分配到地方去地方到底要做什麼事情我前兩天聽到啦我前兩天聽到就是說可能行政院就會把這個教育基金或者是我們的一般性補助款直接拿掉原本該給我們的你不給我們了然後再從這個多的從這個財化法裡面統統分配稅款裡面加在比如說苗栗縣多137億那一般性補助款是50億教育基金是40億那整個90億扣掉之後我們多了47億 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
867.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
882.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個觀念我不希望看到這樣子我們還在每個縣市不同的狀況最後還在盤整當中你原本的一般性的補助款該給的就是要給那其他計劃型的提的中央的政策的我覺得這個這個比例的分攤我覺得是可以談的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
884.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
907.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們請主席總署來把委員的意見列入參考好不好 那我就麻煩主席長不要 希望說這個月底的時候我們看到的是一個很好的結果那我也相信這樣有助於我們朝野的這個和諧國家的進步 好不好也請委員提亮中央政府目前遇到編列預算極大的困難 謝謝好 謝謝院長 謝謝好 謝謝邱政軍 |