| IVOD_ID |
163544 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163544 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-19T09:15:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-19T09:32:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/906c3280ae286f11d8d70e662bce9fab18ad07c9952a2a5306bd48d9366c8797fbc34bea683b19dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:15:46 - 09:32:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔡委員好卓院長好我今天聲音有點傻眼 敬請包容但是我今天還是要跟您討論因為行政院這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.095 |
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51.63 |
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違法大砍或苛扣一般性的地方補助款這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候其實有很大的影響稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明為什麼地方補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
65.209 |
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跟面對應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分那還麻煩院長您能夠認真看待誠懇的回答好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.882 |
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85.897 |
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因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名對一般性補助款行大砍之實 苛扣之實我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目我也在推敲思考行政院到底是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.718 |
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100.958 |
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什麼樣的心態那我去分析之後我的解釋是說行政院終究是為了一個選票為了大罷免大成功可以說是非常的高明那為什麼我會這樣說我麻煩院長看一下這張圖表 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.004 |
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122.132 |
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這是來自主計總處的資料關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形其中教育補助最左邊那一欄是用來支應學校教育人事費教育設施補助費退休給付等然後另外一項第四欄 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
150.939 |
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其他基本的支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員警察還有消防人員的人事費辦公費及退休金等那這兩個項目這兩個項目其實砍得非常少那相對去持平的我的解讀是就不去得罪公教人員就不去得罪這個學生家長所以幾乎都沒有去動他但是相較之下院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.119 |
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176.944 |
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人民最有感也最能大做文章的社會福利補助砍了不少還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少但是砍得最多的那一項明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助是在第五欄的地方平衡預算補助2024年這筆數字是520億 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.496 |
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198.724 |
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但是今年砍了一大半以上剩下249億這個數字砍了這麼多是匪夷所思當然我也可以說是居心叵測我想要請問院長您知不知道透過地方補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.804 |
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222.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
再去補助給中小企業的各種獎勵包括創業補助包括研發補助包括獎勵等等是放在哪個項目足記總長麻煩您直播我想請教院長院長您知道這個部分透過地方政府去補助這個中小企業的一個獎勵 研發 創業是放在哪個項目嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
242.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
中央對地方的補助其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做爭域裁員爭域裁員就是地方政府如果他裁員有不足的時候我們用平衡的精神來爭域他的裁員我剛剛在報告當中說明過 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
255.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
過去這幾年中央與地方通力的合作中央大力協助地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善從愚促轉為盈餘有這個剩餘的時候你提到平衡運轉補助可是你們砍得最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
260.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
也是這一項你們把透過地方的手要去補助中小企業的部分都砍了所以我為什麼一開始就說地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的你們砍了最多砍了一半以上我們並不是砍這樣的預算是爭域裁員爭域裁員是他本身財政困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
280.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有漁錯的時候我們想辦法來補食他他如果沒有了那這個爭域財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件4月7號您邀請立院黨團朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅的議題我們有共商國事那對行政院合定的因應美國的關稅提出了880億院長您還記得我提出什麼建議我講了什麼話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
308.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
322.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
請委員再提點一下當然院長你日理千機啦您不記得是很正常的我是要告訴院長我這個人從來不講場面話而且我講話也不講多餘的話我是直接講的那天我一發言輪到我發言我就跟院長說880億是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
325.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我也提到根據幾位產業專家講的就說這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估所以我們也沒有資料可以做參考那天你也很客氣的請在野黨要配合特別條例你也提到說有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能要涉及法規的鬆綁所以你也請大家配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我 您記得我怎麼回應您嗎我記得那天在草野的氣氛底下是相當針對那個議題對行政院提出的看法是採取支持的我當時有請教您 有提醒您就是說那請你是不是約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的選講台 為什麼呢因為你一方面請在野黨來幫助你能夠通過配合這個預算 特別的條例等等但一方面又要罷免人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
403.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我是這樣子提醒院長但是院長您當天停格了您沒有回答我這句話您沒有回答我因為這兩個不是同樣的公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分院長我想請你先看一段20幾秒的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
聲音請時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停我們再播放一下沒有聲音重新開始播一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
452.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
再試試看請問為什麼沒有聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
490.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在很多必要守住的關頭他都也沒有守住一直節節敗退我們真的想問總統你在急什麼難道這麼重大的事情臺灣社會不應該參與國會不應該監督嗎所以我也要在這裡呼籲我們的國會一定要強力的監督當政府已經喪失了替人民把關的功能的時候我們就期待國會要扮演這個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.095 |
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519.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為您認為當時蔡英文主席在說哪一位總統很急在急什麼呢他說國會要監督監督的對象是誰您記得嗎總統講這段話他的用意當然是希望說國會發揮正常而強力的監督行政院行政院在做任何談判工作的時候要守住國家的立場這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統那個時候就說這個福馬黑箱的受訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
522.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
538.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
當年我們一起來反對這個福馬黑箱主張台灣社會應該參與主張國會應該要監督結果現在賴政府跟您的團隊都是以說跟美方簽有這個秘密協定唯有相關資訊都引領所以我才放這張影片讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
讓您還有民進黨政府能夠回想到底在急什麼為什麼國會不能監督院長美國他先是宣布日本的關稅是15%後來又宣布台灣的關稅是20%那當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率但是我想請教院長你認為20%跟15%差距是大還是不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
15跟20這兩個數字本來就有差距其實是對產業有重大的影響可是當日本政府知道說這個5%是疊加上去的時候他們立刻跟美方溝通最後美方承認川普總統他簽署這個對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確這個跟這個他們7月22日兩國商談的結果是不一樣的所以後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
595.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
623.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
後來日本消美的商品跟歐洲歐盟一樣不會在既有的關稅上再疊加再疊加這個15%可是反觀台灣呢我們在最基本的最惠國這個關稅稅率上又疊加了20%所以我們是20加4是24%啦這是以工具機為例工具機為例是24%那國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5% |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
624.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
643.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在差了百分之九那我再來請問院長請問這個百分之五跟百分之九的差距大不大呢就數字來看當然他是數字是不同的那院長請問官方有整理這個我們消滅產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎有整理這些資料嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
644.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
660.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們跟美國的消美的各項的農工產品我們都有詳細的數字跟其他主要國家的主要產品我們也會做出比較我相信你們是有做比較但是我奇怪的是為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢因為7月23號 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
661.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
682.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就知道日本是15%那8月11日行政會開記者會之前我們都看不到官方數字我們只看到民間整理的數字我不相信這個是屬於這個保密這個協議的範圍陳委員一句話那個記者會政府院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段我們只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
683.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
700.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
行政院在過去一段時間沒有一直重複我覺得是個別產業所受到的衝擊因為那天8月11號有提了一些我先請教8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅請問又過好多天了有沒有進度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
701.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
718.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有沒有進度這件事我是上次的報告有說過歐盟日本他們可以爭取到不疊加是因為他們簽了所謂的協議協議簽了之後他們爭取不疊加像日本也是簽了之後才知道原來他們是疊加 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
台灣跟美國之間還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案簽訂之後 照政府院長所講的我們現在第一個爭取降到合理的稅率第二個爭取不疊價謝謝院長那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候鞏明星秘書長他就是以工具機產業這張圖表的個別產業影響評估說明他說台灣跟主要的競爭國的關稅差距9% |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
749.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
762.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代你看行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多現在終於講實話了會被取代 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
790.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通不能跟國會報告這個一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上加上726大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢過去幾個月您不知道日本的關稅多少台灣的關稅多少我也不知道談判代表也不知道我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
812.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
難道你過去就知道日本是15 台灣是20嗎也不知道啊 沒有人知道啊院長 我提醒的重點是說其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你的壓力其實是你們對美談判的籌碼就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力別的國家就是這麼做的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
812.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
834.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
別的國家就是這麼做啦當然你看到日本 韓國都這麼做但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功啊那又擔心說如果我先公布了衝擊評估那又影響選情啊所以一直就沒有就是一直保持這個隱瞞啊所以我們的感受是如此啊歐盟日本跟美國談好也是在之後的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
834.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
852.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免這個前提是不存在即使在那個時段裡面也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何我今天也許沒有提那個部分但是我們再回到這張簡報我還發現就是韓國工具機它的最惠國關稅是零喔也是疊加上去也是15% |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
853.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
877.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
而台灣最惠國關稅是4%再加上去24%所以還是差距很大那你們在簡報上提出來的因應措施很多業者跟我們反映說杯水車型毫無幫助因為他沒有辦法降低成本就沒有辦法跟對手有競爭力這是很現實的問題我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導標題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
880.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
907.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
美關稅20%已經是仁慈工具機大佬直指關鍵因素在這裡 請問院長您看過這篇報導嗎你有看過這篇報導嗎我約略有看過工具機大佬也就是台灣工具機暨領組建工會的這個名譽理事長許文憲以下都是他說的話美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造要各國去去除紅色供應鏈結果台灣是連 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
908.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
929.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
工具機的產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本對美國來說台灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者跟獲利者只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈美國對台灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的送再多的台積電給美國也沒有用這是他講的話 請問您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
931.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
948.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
台灣就是這樣子我們更應該立即快速的強調我們的整個供應鏈的經濟安全建立起我們的民主供應鏈在過去這段時間累積下來的我們現在就要強烈的來改所以請委員支持我們把今年的預算恢復過來我們可以做更多的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
948.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
971.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那我就是說你剛剛的對應的政策有四項但完全沒有提到去除這個紅色供應鏈嘛所以應該趕快補上嘛所以當你這個地方補助款你把刪掉透過地方政府給企業的總統實際上國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項我沒有辦法一次的講話把所有的你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵這個怎麼能夠有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
982.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
983.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 谢谢 |