| IVOD_ID |
163540 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163540 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T17:39:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T17:54:54+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de62119f844d8c1a83018cf3659852ed2503eea2082bcc3166d40d0ad8028109d995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳冠廷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:39:07 - 17:54:54 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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你好 我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好 院長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
院長我們看今天的報告那裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式那其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因那投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的這個各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的這個標的物那特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在這個金融的防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.499 |
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70.9 |
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它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.789 |
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100.784 |
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但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入他的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有 流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.963 |
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122.997 |
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我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的比如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結這個泰達幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.169 |
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146.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.604 |
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169.413 |
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是跟委員報告一下啊當然最近有關穩定幣的這樣的一個那個討論非常的多那當然剛剛委員有提到就是說我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
189.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
215.992 |
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239.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
部長我們想請教一下最近這幾年任何一年都沒關係因為這個榨汽罪疏於的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這部分我目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法國部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
339.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的這個追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
356.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
378.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我想這個有它社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢觀的一個觀念的偏差我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有到監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在我也關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
402.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这一种的刑度比较高的这一种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯哦出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
430.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
444.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對我們先從 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
484.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
485.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
506.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有 這個可以估計出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些 也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
522.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
550.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那開設台灣銀行帳戶非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有這個繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯 三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
551.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設處於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
576.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在在剿證署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有些再犯或者出犯的再見之刑我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程之後他會更容易去 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
617.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
去把它表達出來好 我們一起找方法好不好部長好 謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化那院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
619.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
643.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將刑案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受理報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
646.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因那我們看到只有13年8月到14年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
662.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
685.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
方式不同我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
687.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
院長 行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月 4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
715.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
742.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
745.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
772.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
786.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係 我們打炸中心的代表都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
788.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
810.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
812.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
828.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
829.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
853.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
855.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
879.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
881.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大家大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
930.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界那我們的產業也是走向國際化那有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士那台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題那我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
947.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
947.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 謝謝 |