| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fceb73709123985790ad9f551ce5fa921fa82e37f9ba35fd77f2c1da569acabfb55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分。
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管「考選業務基金」收支部分。
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公務人員退休撫卹基金」收支部分。
四、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公教人員個人專戶制退撫儲金基金」收支部分。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
14745 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 12:36:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員五人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2547.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2554.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議． |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2576.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2601.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
討論事項一、並案審查委員賴世寶等31人擬據公務人員退休之前撫恤法第37條條文修正草案等20案二、並案審查委員李燕秀等18人擬據公務人員任用法第36條之1條文修正草案等2案本次會委員羅志強等46人提出質詢委員林德福等7人提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢答完畢二、第一案及第二案均另定期繼續審查提案條文均已宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2602.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2629.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三、委員質詢時,要求提供相關資料或以順便答覆者,請相關機關緊速送交個別委員及本會。宣讀完畢。好,那麼議事錄待會稍後確認。那倒了喔,好。那麼請問各位上次會議事錄有錯誤或遺漏?沒有,那我們議事錄確認。接著介紹到場委員及應邀列席官員,歡迎黃委員國昌以及沈委員發會,歡迎。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2634.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2661.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
接下來介紹考試院秘書長劉建新秘書長歡迎考選部劉孟琦部長歡迎以及權敘部施能傑部長歡迎以及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會我們蔡秀娟主任委員兼國家文官學院院長歡迎您好那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2662.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2676.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
其餘列席機關代表不在足以介紹,請參閱名單並列入公報記錄。本次議程繼續審查14年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分等四案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2677.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2695.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
前今113年11月27日﹐立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會於第16次全體委員會議﹐報告及詢答完畢﹐決議均令定期繼續審查﹐預算提案於12月3日中午12時截止收件﹐願於今日繼續審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2698.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2709.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
目前進行議程的討論事項,先請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項所列114年度預算案之全部預算數及所收委員預算提案,宣讀時間約9分鐘,請宣讀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2713.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2724.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
議案114年度考試院主管稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第58項考試院第59項全書部第60項工人保障及培訓委員會第61項國家文官學院及所屬均無劣數第三款規費收入第51項考試院933萬5千元第52項工人保障及培訓委員會1萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2736.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2761.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第四款財產收入第62項考試院57萬7千元第63項考選部573萬元第64項全序部35萬元第65項工人保障及培訓委員會1千元第66項國家五官學院及所屬721萬6千元第67項工人退休輔助基金管理局無劣數第7款其他收入第62項考試院20萬2千元第63項考選部無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2764.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2783.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第64項全序部36,000元第65項公務人員保障及培訓委員會26,000元第66項國家文官學院及所屬91,000元第67項公務人員退休輔助基金管理局無劣數稅出部分第五款考試院主管第一項考試院3億7293萬8千元第二項考選部7億1277萬6千元第三項全序部388億2712萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2794.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2806.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第四項公務人員保障期培訓委員會210294萬1千元第五項國家文官學院及所屬3億3237萬8千元第六項公務人員退休撫恤接近管理局3億3248萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2809.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2815.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二、考試院考選部主管114年度考選業務基金業務計劃請參閱預算書業務收支業務總收入6億067萬8千元業務總支出5億8956萬3千元本期剩餘1111萬5千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2829.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2833.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
結繳公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數固定資產建設改良擴充4441萬5000元國庫增撥基金額及補辦預算均無劣數第三案全序部主管114年度公務人員退休撫恤基金基金運用計劃請參閱預算書總收入363億8286萬元總支出21億 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2854.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2878.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
五千零五十萬五千元本期剩餘三百四十二億三千二百三十五萬五千元第四案全序部主管114年度公教人員個人專戶制退府儲金基金基金運用計劃請參閱預算書總收入一億四千四百萬九千元總支出七百二十七萬一千元本期剩餘一億三千六百四十三萬八千元宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2880.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2895.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
繼續宣讀委員提案部分請參與提案會整表及預算提案內容114年度中央政府總預算案委員提案會整表考試院主管收支部分議案稅務第三款規費收入第51項考試院委員審判會等所提主權議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2897.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2926.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
二案以下為稅出部分提案二案之二十六案第五款考試院主管第一項考試院二案派員出國計劃預算總表國外旅費減列179萬元委員黃國昌等提案三案之九案針對第一幕一般行政三案第一幕向下零二基本行政工作維持費中業務費之水電費減列100萬元委員黃國昌等提案四案科目同錢減列57萬1千元凍結50萬元委員翔林等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2927.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2945.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
五、按〈零二中設備及投資、機械設備費、檢列一百萬元、凍結一百萬元、委員黃國昌等提案。六、按〈零二中設備及投資、雜項設備費、檢列一百萬元、凍結一百萬元、委員黃國昌等提案。七、按〈零三資訊業務中業務費、檢列三百萬元、凍結五百萬元、委員黃國昌等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2946.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2969.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
八案零三中設備及投資資訊軟硬體設備費解滅200萬元凍結300萬元為黃國昌等提案。九案科目同前凍結300萬元為林思明等提案。十案第三目法制業務向下零一法制作業及法規編印凍結15%為謝龍介等提案。十一案至十七案針對第四目施作業務及督導。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2970.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2983.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
十一案自十四案,第四目校下零二考全施政業務審查及督導,分別簡列五十萬元、凍結五十萬元及凍結五十萬元、凍結五十萬元、凍結三十萬元、委員温曉林需信應等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2986.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
3005.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
15、零三、文官制度研究發展、交流與出版、結立100萬元、凍結100萬元委員黃國昌等提案。16、零三、中業務費支委辦費凍結85萬元委員翁小玲、徐欣映等提案。17、零四、加強為民服務及施政成果宣導凍結四分之一委員吳宗憲等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
3006.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
3026.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
十八案第五目一般建築及設備第一階交通及運輸設備檢列210萬元委員翁曉琳等提案十九案第五目向下淋浴車輛汰換檢列210萬元委員黃國昌等提案二十案至二十六案分別為委員林思明等委員莊瑞雄等委員陳俊宇等委員吳思瑤等所提之主決議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
3027.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
3041.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二十七案至四十二案第五款第二項考選部。二十七案第一目一般行政項下,零二基本行政工作維持中業務費之水電費僅列二百零一萬元,統計五十萬元為五小零等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
3042.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
3060.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
二十八案第二幕考試業務向下零一對考選業務基金辦理事務工作補助中獎補助費凍結五百萬元為零四名等提案二十九案第二幕向下零二對考選業務基金國家考試數位轉型發展及推動補助凍結百分之十五元洩漏借等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
3061.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
3063.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位附屬單位附屬單位附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
3080.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
3098.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
三、四案第四目一般建築及設備第一階營建工程向下零一營建工程凍結百分之十為委員謝龍介等提案。三、四案科目銅錢委員黃國昌等提案凍結一千三百一十七萬元。三十五案至四十二案分別為委員鍾嘉斌等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
3099.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
3116.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員審法會等委員會小林等、委員陳俊宇等所提之主決議案。四十三案至五十一案第五款第三項全序部四十三案第一幕一般行政向下零二基本行政工作維持中業務費之水電費結列二十二萬五千元凍結五十萬元委員會小林等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
3118.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
3142.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
44案第三目一般建築及設備第一節交通及運輸設備向下01交通及運輸設備檢列195萬元委員黃國昌等提案45萬科目同前檢列95萬元委員羅志強等提案46案至51案分別委委員審發會等委員林思明等委員吳思耀等所提之主決議案52案至60案第五款第四項公務人員保障及培訓委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
3144.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
3164.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
五十二案第一幕一般行政向下零二基本行政工作維持,減列250萬元委員黃柏昌等提案。五十三案第一幕向下零二基本行政工作維持中,業務費之水電費減列313000元凍結50萬元委員翁小玲等提案。五十四案第二幕保障記憶培訓第一節保障業務凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3167.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
3186.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
五十五案至六十案分別為委員審發會等委員謝龍介等委員吳思耀等首提主決議案六十議案第五款第五項國家文官、學院及所屬第一幕一般行政向下零二基本行政工作維持中業務費之水電費僅列五十三萬三千元凍結五十萬元維吾爾少林等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
3187.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3214.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
62案第五款第六項公務人員退休撫恤基金管理局第二幕退休退撫基金管理凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案63案、64案分別為委員審核會等為541等所提主決議案114年度全序部主管公務人員退休撫恤基金預算提案一案總支出其他財務支出凍結10%委員零四名等提案二案為委員零四名所提主決議案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3219.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3233.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
預算數及所有提案均已宣讀完畢。進行討論前,先說明預算案的處理方式。依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例,稅入部分一來源別以巷為單位,稅出部分一機關別以木為單位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3234.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3260.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
分別依序進行審查各單位預算中於處理委員所提之三提案後其餘未涉及之預算部分均與照列有關正式別稅出預算隨同機關別審查結果調整那麼預算提案經由委員會幕僚的整理已經將所收的委員提案匯整成預算提案本大概就這一本 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3262.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3273.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
並且按照預算科目製作會診表方便各位與審查時參考請大家分別參閱提案本及我們會診本進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3278.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3298.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
稍後經討論決議修正之預算提案,請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後,送交主席台,並均列入公報記錄。預算審查過程中,如有列行幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時,先請自行介紹職稱、姓名,並立公報人員記錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3304.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3326.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
目前來進行討論事項第一案繼續審查14年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分首先是稅務提案先處理稅務部分提案第一案共一案先請提案委員針對提案內容進行說明再請機關代表回覆之後再做成決議請審委員稅務部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3333.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3342.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席各位同仁齁我想這個有關於這個考試院這個稅入案齁他關於規費收入行政規費收入跟證照費的這個合計編列933萬5千元齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3346.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3357.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個收入算是稅務的預估、規配收入這些相關收入前一年度的決算數其實高達1766萬2千元今年度的預算數是1400萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3366.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3384.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個我在預算上看到這個今年編列卻只有編列933萬5千那而且沒有相關的這個詳細的說明跟到底是如何預估基準極致這些範圍都沒有了所以他這個預算數與決算數的差異甚大 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3385.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3403.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那這個部分我是提一個主決議就是說希望說請考試院在兩個月內向立法院向本委員會提出書面報告等於是補充說明說為什麼這個稅務的收入預估跟決算數會差異這麼大以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3405.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3425.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
請劉秉書長說明簡單跟委員說明明年度的預算收入剪裂幅度比較大主要是因為我們過去這一年推動電子證書成效逐漸展現所以同步請領紙本證書的比例就下降得非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3426.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3438.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主管總預算案附屬因為一張500塊,所以明年我們是依照現況的比例來做預估,那這個部分我們再以這個報告來跟委員做說明,所以本案同意沒有問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3445.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3464.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
接下來我們繼續處理稅出提案處理前先做說明依照委員會處理預算提案之慣例會讓所有的提案委員先說明自己的提案並表達意見在經與機關充分討論之後做成決議也就是說程序上我們會按照會整表所排列的提案順序依序由提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3465.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3488.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
先就提案內容進行說明之後再由機關代表予以答覆然後再整目一起處理做成決議原則上我們依照慣例盡可能採取共識的方式處理首先我們就開始進行處理稅數的部分依照前述原則依序進行先請提案委員針對提案內容進行說明再請機關代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3488.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3512.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
回覆之後作成決議。請參閱我們提案本及彙整表彙整表彙整表在這好那目前我們就先從第二案開始那麼我們首先處理第二案那因為它的國外旅會因為我們是以目為單位它包含了第一目、第二目以及第四目的預算那首先請提案委員說明請方委員過場謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3518.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3545.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
針對考試院在明年度也就是2025年的預算台灣民眾黨、黨團基本上面的立場是春節之初依照我們行政院院長佐隆泰的指示公帑不可以隨便浪費特別是考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3547.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3573.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這幾年的表現讓非常多的國人非常的失望上一屆考試院的院長黃榮春說他已經有心理準備說是最後一屆的考試院院長有這種心理準備的考試院院長應該要知道在他的任內該做的事情要好好的做但我們看到的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3575.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3603.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
過去這幾年在考試院的制度裡面所有的公務人員大家最關心的有關於公務人員在職場上面安全衛生的保護有關於考機制度的改革徹底的僵化完全看不到考試院不管在全序還是在保訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3604.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3628.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
有任何積極的作為但是要法制委員來報告的時候永遠都是在研議讓考試院研議的夠久了針對這麼多重要的制度每次考試院來說就是在研議研議了半天以後我們真的不知道這種龐大的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3635.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3657.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
連現在考試院院長被提名人周鴻憲都不認為不管是文官的中立還是國家考試的公平考試院的存在就不是必要條件了在這樣的情況下沒有道理讓考試院繼續維持過去的預算規模年復一年日復一日 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3665.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3690.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
毫無知覺地運作下去所以我們黨團基本上面的立場非絕對必要的費用全面刪除這是台灣民眾黨黨團的立場編那麼高的預算出國考察然後呢然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3693.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3702.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
跟你們自己執掌有關係的事情光是最近職場霸凌的事件我上次質詢就提到了在考試院院會兩次提出討論然後呢然後就沒有然後在這樣的情況下還要編預算出國考察請問是要考察什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3723.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3725.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
考察如何繼續研議嗎?所以我提案那也很感謝因為在委員會裡面黨團沒有辦法提案要委員提案那由其他的委員來簽署那我也特別謝謝羅志強委員跟吳宗憲委員他們連署他們連署是讓我的提案有被提出來的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3751.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3755.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我感謝他們但是這個提案由我提案人黃國昌負責以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3759.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3787.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
好 那麼請機關代表回覆 來 請說明好 謝謝黃委員的指教虛心受教那我當然這邊也說明過去這一屆13屆考試院推動了在立法院這邊推動了大概30項法案的修正那這個部分事實上也不是都沒有在努力在推動制度的改變那當然委員覺得不足的地方我想後面一定有需要來盡力來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3787.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3803.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3803.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3824.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
最近這兩年的出國考察,事實上對制度面的研議也有相當的幫助。例如我們去日本,就是看他在招募制度上面,中央跟地方的分工,還有誘人機關參與的程度,以及他在日本設計測驗中心等等的制度。在考試的工具上面,面試跟基礎能力測驗等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3828.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3839.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
其他國家的文官招募制度及管理制度有相當部分反映在制度的變革上,包括高普考、全面檢科等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3843.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3863.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
如果委員認為說因為考試院過去在出國預算為什麼編列的數字會比較高最主要是考試院政務官數量比較多那以過去的執行率來說我想如果委員建議可能能夠接受部分的刪減或凍結的話我想這邊我們願意來照辦但是全面的刪除這個部分確實是比較有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3864.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3887.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那這個人事制度也的確需要做一些跨國的比較那考試委員或首長作為機關決策者其實也有必要能夠有機會去做一些其他國家的不同制度面向的比較跟考察那也請他請委員跟我理解跟支持以上好謝謝機關代表來那我們現在請包括提案委員連書委員有沒有要進一步詢問來請羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3891.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3913.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
大方向上非常支持黃國昌委員剛剛對於考試院的各項預算今天我們應該是從尊潔政府裁員的角度讓我們今天所有政府部門能夠好好的善用人民交給政府的納稅錢其實我覺得最主要有三個出發點第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3914.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3935.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
民進黨長期主張考試院該廢顯現民進黨對於考試院的職能的必要性在國家政府的必要性它本來就有很大的問題那鑑於考試院的長年來的所有的運作的績效我覺得考試院要不要存在剛剛我們的秘書長一直強調考試院做很多事的存在很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3936.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3962.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
但民進黨又覺得說基本上考試院是一個該廢好像是一個多餘的單位的話那很簡單我們讓考試院更精進更有效率所以我們就讓他的預算實際上用在刀口之上那第二個就是說我也要特別強調考試院的存在這些年有一件很重要的事情你們其實沒有擔當你們該有的責任就是文官環境的快速惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3963.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3975.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3981.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3996.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
最近一系列的文官被霸凌讓公務員踩在腳底之下我沒有看到考試院有任何積極的作為啊那第二個是什麼第二個是文官的退休保障不斷的被今天政府削奪 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3996.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
4022.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那我也沒看到考試院今天你有站在文官的背後結果導致10年前到10年10年前高普考報考人數是14萬人竟然掉到7萬人腰斬我只有可恥兩個字來形容現在我們的政府對待文官的態度啦所以既然這樣我們不要讓考試院變成高官酒肉臭文官鬥死鼓的這種荒謬的景象 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
4023.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
4049.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
就像很簡單今天民進黨的我們現在的很多的一些官員你謹慾欲實對不對我裡面也後面有個提案車子要用最好的要用最豪華頂規的車來去編預算那但是公務員的狀況待遇越來越差結果你謹慾欲實然後看著公務員今天被霸凌被削奪退休保障那說真的那今天請你們勒一下褲帶啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
4052.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
4078.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
稍微表現一下今天向我們卓榮泰院長宣誓的政府的財政政府的那個預算我們今天必須要尊潔要用在最值得用的地方所以我非常認同黃國昌委員對於考試院很多預算的把關今天考試院既然你沒有辦法成功的好好的用心的成為今天文官的後盾那麼就從你們自己勒緊褲袋開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
4079.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
4102.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
再來就是說我們看到很多關於政府機關的出國報告抱歉真的是產不人獨到底跟業務的本業有什麼關係所以一下一下的來檢討我支持黃國昌委員今天對於我們政府機關預算我們要採取為人民嚴格把守荷包然後同時讓我們的機關更有效率的運用人民的納稅錢以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
4107.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
4108.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
請問其他委員對﹖來請翁曉琳委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
4111.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
4137.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這次針對考試院所提出來的預算本席基本上非常支持前面兩位委員的意見還是要秉持著尊潔的原則然後去做相關的預算的審查尤其是我們也看到其實考試院近年來光是以本席進入到立法院當然立法委員之後我們又看到考試院有提出什麼積極的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
4140.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4141.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4165.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4169.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
退休金的改革制度引起非常多的反彈。在後來的相關的法條也有很多的限職的公務員也表達不滿而這個部分我認為說考試院基本上也沒有積極的去想到說要去怎麼樣在進行進一步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4184.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4208.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
進一步的修法。那麼同時對於像政務官政務官、政務人員法這也是本席很在意的那麼其實明明就是應該考試院要提可是你們都不提所以讓現在的政務人員的行為操作根本沒有辦法去約束這是一個很糟糕的一件事情那再加上這次看到考試院所提出來的相關不管是水電費出國 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4211.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4224.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
的費用還有一些其他的資訊設備費等等這些都是編列的不合理所以必須要來刪減謝謝翁委員那其他委員對於本案有沒有其他的意見來請莊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4230.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4246.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
主席、各位在場的委員,我剛也聽到了提案委員跟不同委員針對於這個考試院拍案出國這個計畫的一個預算裡面,您是編,因為您總統編一百七十個嘛,您的全數是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4247.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4265.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
其實我倒是這樣講啦,像比如說,這樣的一個提案的一個方式啊,帶有非常強烈的一個針對性啦,全部都簡略,可能是說,你們也沒有辦法去把它講得很清楚啊,就你編這樣的一個出國的預算,到底想要做些什麼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4266.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4295.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這幾年來你說考試院全部都沒有去推動任何的一個法案這個可能也言過其詞了那對於整個文官保障裡面你說考試院當然你到最後全序部還有其他各個單位裡面期待你們做更多的一個事情出來可是你說都沒有站在公務人員的一個後盾好像是對整個退府裡面是好像你們又重重的去砍了一把 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4296.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4322.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這個也都只對了一點點最主要年金改革的部分我相信也是對於現在在任或者說以後要退休的這些公務人員對他們來講的話其實也是一種這個提前防止提前破產對他們造成整個退休這個整個保障方面的一個精進的一個方式當然會有很多人不滿那是不是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4325.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4345.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
檢列179,全數刪除的部分,可不,你們認為多少你們有夠啦。好,那麼請劉民長說明。是。如果可以檢列三成的話,是不是可能委員這邊可以支持? |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4348.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4369.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
請問在場委員目前考試院希望說這179萬是全數刪除那認為是簡列三成來請黃國昌委員對不起沒有辦法支持請問其他委員對於簡列三成有沒有其他意見不支持不支持我也不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4372.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4387.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
三位委員我想齁這個全數刪除的部分齁其實這提案的內容是全數刪除啦179萬那現在我們在這邊說到底刪除多少是可以接受齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4388.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4402.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那這個我想不管你說要刪除多少我想提案委員跟這些聯署委員他們自己提案說要全數刪除你現在不管開3層、4層、5層、6層、7層、8層我想也通通都不會支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4404.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4431.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
是不是我們還是具體的來看他們你們現在目前的出國的計畫你所謂三成的基礎是什麼總是不是一個菜市場滿天開價那這個我個人也是認為說全數刪除是可能真的是會影響到整個考試既然考試院現在還存在我們就不應該說讓他只有維持基本在辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4433.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4438.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4459.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4488.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
怎麼樣算出來的149萬,那我們再來討論看看怎麼樣從裡面來遵截,好不好?好,那麼這邊會長、各位委員意見,請待會劉秘長說明一下。目前有委員提案是179萬元全數減劣,就全數刪除。那另外有委員認為說,那如果秘書長認為可以遵截三成,那這個基礎何在?這個179萬的三成遵截之後, |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4490.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4516.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所餘的經費用於何處?請說明根委員會報告就是考試院過去在為什麼出國經費會編列在三個科目它過去當然就是一部分是考試委員運用一部分是文官同仁的支出那一部分是首長所以它分成三個科目在編列那這個數字呢其實隨著通案刪減的話它是逐年在下降我 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4518.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4538.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們參考過去幾年因為剛好考試院這一屆四年很快的時間前面兩年半都受到疫情的影響所以這筆經費前面都沒有辦法去執行那比較正常執行的是112年就是去年那這一年我們的執行率大概超過八成那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4539.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4568.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
是建議說如果能夠做部分的刪減的話我想我們內部這邊來做一些這個未來在規劃的時候就以委員會這個立法院通過的數字來做規劃目前考試院這邊執行出國的狀況大概會跟部會這邊的出國考察做某一種程度的結合最主要是因為相關的制度法案等等是由部會這邊在規劃那所以部會這邊會有安排相關的國外考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4570.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4594.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們希望考試委員能夠有機會的話也能夠去做一些制度的了解所以考試院這邊就是在這幾年我們至少覺得13屆這裡我們對於出國考察的對象國家有特別的嚴格的檢視也就是說要去有意義的考察的對象那同時如果行程約的不好我們也不會出團 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4597.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4611.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
而且寫報告的部分一定要寫得很紮實對於實質的考答內容有相當的要求所以如果各位能夠去看我們過去這兩三年的出國報告的話會感覺我們的報告絕對沒有在亂寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4613.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4641.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
只是說就明年的規劃部分因為14屆並沒有還沒有上任我想我們做的初步規劃未來一定可能還會因為未來的首長或委員上任之後有相關的調整只是說如果能夠留一些經費讓我們讓這個部分的業務的執行也可以做相當的運用的話會比較不會說是完全沒有做這個跨國制度比較的機會以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4642.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4658.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
主席這邊做個整理,那麼也建議我們委員會看一下在考試院編列的預算書五之一這一冊,最上面這一本,第98頁,那目前我們本案所討論的呢,就是編列在它的考察,分別有跟訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4660.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4681.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
計劃名稱及代碼在考察領域的部門前往國家是美國及瑞典參訪機構是人事管理機構及公司部門的機構主要是瞭解美國專業人員考試以及電腦化適性測驗考察瑞典國家公務員等等第二項是訪問這裡面有特別註明是以政務 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4683.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4708.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
需求需要出國訪問考察的對象地區是歐洲那這裡面也是訪問高級文官培訓機構等等等那這邊寫到政務需要那麼第三個是考試院派員赴國外訪問考全業務及國際文官制度學術交流業務第一點是包括歐洲馬來西亞跟印尼印度尼西亞這裡面有清楚的說明了包括第一點跟第二點第二點是參加亞洲國際培訓總會或國際培訓總會等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4712.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4713.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4736.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4757.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
要去了解其他國家的專機人員考試或參加國際培訓總會這是由一般文官代表出席的部分是不是可以容許他們在遵節預算情況之下去支用那至於政務需求的部分就以於簡略那麼主席這邊綜合各位委員的意見提出這樣的方案不曉得各位在場委員看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4761.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4775.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
第一個其實我們看國家到目前為止的預算制度大家都心知肚明在預算書裡面所寫的這些內容毫無拘束力 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4776.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4779.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4794.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4813.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們已經在太多機關看到這樣子非常具體的狀況了非常具體的狀況第二個剛剛有委員指教說這個是比較有針對性的那我必須要比較清楚的答覆這不是有針對性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4815.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4835.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個是我們通安性的立場基本上就是這個樣子那當然每一個政黨為每一個政黨自己的政策選擇負責任當我們說我們基本上面的政策立場是希望台灣朝向三權分立的腳步走的時候我們是認真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4837.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4865.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
在修憲以前我們了解憲法的界限所以我們相關的提案不會跨越憲法的界限這個機關它基本上面在憲政秩序下面它該有的功能我們繼續讓它維繫所以我沒有去砍有關於人事的費用核心的業務費也沒有什麼砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4868.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4893.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但我們如果認真的認為考試院的瘦身監察院的預算我們在實質的預算提案的時候就會反映在我們實質預算提案的內容你說就有關於國外考察是考試院的核心業務沒有考察沒有辦法了解瑞典的文官制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4895.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4920.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
沒有去美國,不知道他們在那邊考試的時候所做考試支部的改革對於這樣子兩者之間的連結,對不起我是沒有辦法做這樣子一個合理性的連結好,請問其他委員有沒有其他的意見來,翁委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4923.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4946.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
本席剛剛看了這個這次的考察跟訪問計畫考試院提的考試考察訪問計畫我也認為說其實沒有明顯的必要非得要出國去做這樣的一個考察像這個美國的什麼專機人員電腦化適性測驗這不是我們現在早就都在做了這應該已經長年以來就有相關的了解了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4946.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4968.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
當區瑞典的考察、文官制度、組織高齡化等等的這些其實這個收集很多的這個文獻paper都可以看得到了所以不需要就實際要去出去那麼至於就是考試就是訪問高階文官培訓飛躍方案培訓機關的等等的這個這看不出來到底是要去做什麼那頂多是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4972.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4986.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
免搶可以認為說參加亞洲國際培訓總會的這個會議的預算或許還可以保留其他的話我都認為沒有必要利用政府的經費再去做這樣的考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4988.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
5007.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
再次給考試院說明的機會,來請劉秘書長。好,謝謝。那個盧委員所說的國際培訓總會這個部分,因為這個是一般同仁去,中階同仁去參加,那最主要是說考試院這邊如果能夠有國際交流的機會,能夠讓同仁有這樣的機會的話,會比較有一個激勵的效果。 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
5008.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
5021.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那前面如黃委員剛剛所說就是今天在預算書裡面的規劃它的確沒有拘束力但事實上因為我們自己在過去聯絡相關的訪問的時候有時候規劃也的確會碰到一些困難比如說訪問國家相關時間無法配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
5029.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
5051.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
或者是他們有其他的考量以至於無法承行,所以它的確會有一些彈性讓我們再去做調整。但是過去幾年我們在出國的考察執行的部分,如果沒有好的計畫,其實我們因為執行率不高,就是因為沒有好的計畫我們也不會再去濫用那筆錢。所以我們不會說只是有邊出國經費我們就會把它花掉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
5051.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
5070.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
因為我也檢討過去長久以來考試院這邊出國的某些報告其實有一部分我自己也覺得說可能有一些的確在內容上面是需要在有很大的改善空間所以我們這幾年是很要求就是說出去外面的考察一定是很扎實而且是實質上有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
5071.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
5096.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
雖然說有一些制度可以用paper上面去研究但是實際面對面的溝通看到了解的狀況的確會跟從閱讀上面來看還是有很大的差距那某些部分它可能也在我們目前制度的已經反映在我們一部分的制度的改變的這個績效上面那另外一部分當然也有會有做未來這個研議的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
5097.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
5119.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
如果委員還是覺得說不是很放心的話,除了三減三成之外,再凍結兩成,看這樣是不是可以支持。來,請莊委員。謝謝莊委員。我想跟黃國昌委員可能有點誤會,針對是一件好事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
5121.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5145.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
國民黨跟民眾黨針對於考試院這樣的一個預算本來就是針對性那在我看來這個針對性只是看你的目標到底是要幹什麼啦你說考試院這個憲政機關裡面民主進步黨主張你捐財本來應該廢掉考試院應該廢掉我到現在我還是支持那只是說我一直認為說你這個預算對今年這次提出的預算來講的話就是這一屆裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5148.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5175.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
第一年。第一年。那我們是不是就讓考試院這樣的一個說明,它有它的一個必要性的部分,或者簡略的一個部分它說三層,然後它自己也說那是不是啊,在那先給它凍結兩層,然後預算給它以後,我相信它這一些的花費裡面,以考試院這一次這樣的一個編列的方式,相信這一次的國會的一個結構, |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5176.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5177.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5196.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5211.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
以這樣的一個方式我們去審預算的話,倒是要考試院太爽了,真的會太爽了。變成說人事費用,都要存人事費用,大家都不用做。你像出國費用裡面,我會有不同的看法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5212.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5230.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
你說到處去玩那這些當然站在一個立法機關國會的一個態度裡面哪有可能讓這種預算去過關可是我們去看看不要說院有時候連各部會裡面都會有一些像譬如說研究案有一些標案 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5231.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5234.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5249.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5263.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那也代表我們立法院以前大家都是眼睛蒙著在審預算這個講起來自己立法院也難堪是不是大家在場的委員可以考量一下他覺得要先檢查什麼還有兩項凍結先給他們看看因為後面確實對於整個考試院的一個監督可以預測 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5273.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5290.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
例如說在這一年兩年裡面考試院說可以來修憲把他給廢掉我倒還不覺得說會可能會有國民黨這個部分會突然會認為說要來支持這樣的一個案子所以第一年這樣子變成是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5292.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5298.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5316.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5339.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好 那麼在其他委員繼續發言之前是不是我這邊主席先請那個會計師陳主任因為剛剛有委員詢問到是不是就過去三年本項國外旅費的執行狀況提出一個數字讓大家知道一下因為剛剛秘書長有提到過去在國外旅費的支用情況並不是如預算書編列就完全去支用 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5340.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5355.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
第二、剛剛有委員提到說因為這裡面是跨了第一幕、第二幕跟第四幕那其中包括由考試院派員復國考察等參加國際會議培訓總會的會議似乎覺得可以給予支持那是不是我們這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5358.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5383.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
請考試院這邊提供過去三年的決算數那我們本案因為有提出一個建議是簡列三層凍結兩層但也有要求全數簡列那也有認為可以支持常任文官參加國際培訓總會的會議那到底大家的決議如何是不是我這邊先建議本案先保留那你們資料送到後我們再來處理好不好來請黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5389.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5408.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
剛剛翁曉琳委員當考試院說話我覺得翁委員講得有道理就翁委員支持的第51屆亞洲國際培訓總會年會要處理的事情那你們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5412.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5440.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
明年就這件事情本身需要多少錢提供細目給我幾個人去多少錢而且我要細項我為什麼說我要細項我必須要很清楚的講每一次預算通過了以後我們要進行事後的監督我只用兩個字來形容 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5441.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5470.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
叫做痛苦我為什麼說痛苦我今天為了要準備這整個預算的審查我就已經執行過的部分跟各個不同的部會調要出國沒有問題啊你們過去執行出國的細項請交出來從法務部從調查局司法院勞動部全部都一模一樣全部都給出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5471.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5480.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
全部都給出的什麼叫全部都給出的例如說生活費30幾萬生活費30幾萬生活費30幾萬請問裡面的細項是什麼是不是出去還有日資費 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5493.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5519.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
依照規定有日資費那如果依照規定有日資費的話那住宿費是不是應該從日資費裡面去出那但問題是我又看到其他的項目又有住宿費而我看了我覺得簡直是不可思議但我當我要進一步跟他們要細項請你提供單據 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5522.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5544.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
給我的回覆是依法我們不用給只有審計部可以看只有審計部可以調我完全沒有辦法從那個粗的去合理的評估這到底是怎麼回事太多部會我去調來的資料看的我是一頭霧水 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5547.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5557.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
一個局長一個部長帶了一個團去一個地方幹了什麼回來有什麼實際的作用不知道幾十萬幾百萬的這樣花這個是為什麼我們說在政策立場上我要呼應卓榮泰呼籲啊嚴格把關啊公帑不要隨便亂花 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5578.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5603.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
但是針對這一項有委員提出來有文官要去有需要那沒有關係請你們具體的有幾個人要去去幾天編列的項目大概是什麼那個基本上啊都有公式啦機票多少錢啊日資費多少錢啊把它全部都列出來看實際在這個項下 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5605.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5616.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
需要花多少錢那我就會同意在這個額度讓他通過其他的部分我還是堅持我本來的立場全部都刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5618.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5619.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
國外旅費 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5636.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5662.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
在往年都是會經過協商後呢有一個總體性的處理那這個處理有時候是打七折打幾折這個不一而主未來在院會協商的時候會進行處理那所以我這邊主席先將本案先暫保留那麼先請考試院趕快準備過去三年的決算數以及剛剛由委員指教針對過去的執行情況還有未來這個本案 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5663.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5692.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
明年執行的狀況、詳細的規劃提供作委員來待會後續審查的參考好不好那我們本案先暫保留那我們現在進行再來考試院的第一幕一般行政就是第三案至第九案好來第三案至第九案好來那麼有提案委員分別有黃委員、翁委員到第九案那第九案也有包括好第九案也改成主決議了那是不是請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5694.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5722.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
因為這個是第一幕一般行政從第三案到G9案都是我們現在都一幕一幕的審查就是因為這些的提案內容都是針對一般行政這第一幕之下都是水電費的部分嘛還有包括在一般行政那請大家表示意見我們一案一案來啦先從第三案的水電費的部分他也是在一般行政向下請 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5725.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5748.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
官委員請第一個就針對水電費的部分就電費的部分你們基本上面的理由是因為電費有調漲我只拜託公務機關將心比心看看你們在提案裡面所寫的內容寫的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5750.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5766.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我為什麼這樣講?你們在裡面提案的內容講說給我回覆書面解釋的內容是說除了基本電價調整外還要成語電價調整的係數跟112年4月1日每度5.5元相比漲幅高達35.94%我應該沒有理解錯嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5779.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5799.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
從你們的立場電價調漲了35.94%所以你們希望反映在公務預算上我為什麼說政府機關要站在人民的立場去思考整個政府施政上面的政策電價調漲了35.94%這不是任何一個立法委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5805.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5822.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這是在你們公文書回給我的內容上面所講的因為這樣調漲所以你們需要增加那我為什麼說整體的施政要站在人民的立場上人民的工資有調漲35.94%嗎對於一般的壽星家庭來講他們所面對的是什麼樣子的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5837.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5863.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
他們沒有另外一個口袋可以這樣子接所以我為什麼說針對這個地方請你們尊潔使用請你們尊潔使用那你說我也不會讓你們沒有辦法運作所以我在提案上面只有簡列預算100萬元這個是我在第三案裡面提案的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5868.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5880.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好,那目前從第二案到第九案,那麼有黃委員發言,那請有沒有溫委員來,溫委員來請第四案。好,是因為我也針對水電費的部分也提出要簡列這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5883.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5884.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
總預算案附屬單位及所屬主管總預算案附屬單位總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5910.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5913.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5933.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5933.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5958.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5980.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
好,謝謝。那麼其他委員有沒有要進入到第9案部分進行說明或詢問?好,那現在請考試院做說明。是,謝謝主席。我先針對剛剛委員催省的電價部分做一些說明。我們這邊計算的帳幅是因為考試院我們是公務機關,我們屬於這個行業別是公共行政,所以這個帳幅並不是民生電價的帳幅。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5982.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5999.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
實際上臺電電價調漲其實對於大戶也包含政府機關的部分調漲的幅度的確是比較高今年就調漲了兩次我們在給委員回覆的說明裡面去強調的就是說對於政府機關的部分漲幅兩次調漲的漲幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
6000.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
6019.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
相較於去年4月1號的漲幅是35.94%那我們即使把我們的節電目標放進去也是超過三成但是我們明年度的預算的成長只有15%事實上還是比這個電價實際的漲幅要來的低所以我們預估這個預算的編列而且我們事實上在編列這個預算的時候並沒有那時候還沒有今年10月那一次調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
6031.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
6058.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以為什麼編列的其實比實際的調整輔助更低原因部分也是在這邊所以我們是預估明年這個預算數事實上會非常的吃緊那我們這幾年考試院的用電度是每年逐年都在下降所以我們在這幾年已經過去4、3、4年的一共節電比例是達到6%所以我們都一直在做各項的控制那顯然即使是這個預算全數通過的話明年度的節電的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
6060.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
6064.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
公夫還要下得更深一點,所以這個部分跟委員先做答覆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
6069.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
6096.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們現在是第三案和第四案這樣子因為我們還是一案一案來剛剛我們從第三案到第九案因為第九案改為組決議了嘛第三案到第八案它都在一般行政第一幕向下但是其中第三案和第四案是水電費那水電費的部分分別有減列一百萬以及減列五十七萬一千元凍結五十萬分別是黃委員跟崩委員的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
6097.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
6126.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那麼就水電費的部分因為這個未來在行政院跟各院和立法院進行院會的朝野協商的時候水電費都是通案的一個處理方式那有委員認為說水電費的部分我們先暫保留嗎?那水電費的部分我們第三跟第四案我們保留要送院會協商這水電費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6128.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6155.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好接下來我們看第五案第五案是由黃委員提案那麼第六案好像也是第五案、第六案等一下黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6163.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6185.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
雜項設備、機器設備。來,黃委員,剛現在進行到第五案,跟第六案都是您的提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6187.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6204.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
第五案的部分你們說說明我也看你們說那個要去換一台冰水主機嘛冰水主機大概就是大的空調冷氣機是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6207.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6220.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為理解應該沒有錯吧?對,它是空調然後大的空調的冰水主機你們希望有941萬然後941萬第一個理由是說本來的那個機器 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6226.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6243.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
他所使用的東西在119年會全面禁止使用所以是在2030年的時候會被全面禁止使用那經過廠商檢測現有的冰水主機係數是3.5然後新機是5.02只有7成的效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6253.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6273.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們當初前一台的那個機器啊就現有的這個冰水主機你們說故障頻繁效能退化導致電力耗損嚴重修繕成本高昂所以你們認為有必要要換一台新的那換一台新的是941萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6276.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6300.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
462元針對這個部分再請考試院提供更具體的資料什麼叫做更具體的資料我需要的是第一個當初購買你們現在所要換的現在就要換的那個主務基當初跟廠商簽的合約這個是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6301.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6320.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
您說的是目前要被換掉的那一份?對對對對對對對對對對對對對然後第二個是他們的測試的報告因為你說經過他們的檢測只有七成的效能嘛那廠商不能競猜公共的嘛你說已經經過他們檢測嘛那既然經過他們檢測顯然是有檢測報告嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6325.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6326.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6346.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6374.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
花在那台機器上面的修繕費用請給我清楚的列表因為你說修繕成本高昂嘛那譬如說2023年5月8號修了一次花了多少錢2024年8月5號修了一次花了多少錢請你們給我提供這些具體的資料我看完具體的資料了以後再決定這個項目我是不是要同意以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6376.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6398.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好,謝謝,考試院有,秘書長可以提供嗎?那個總務,這邊總務處的。好,我們回去來整理。好,那麼,那這樣的話我們第5案是冰水主機嘛。好,那麼我們就先暫保留齁,那請你們趕快,多久可以提供資料給本會? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6401.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6420.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我想你們在詢問的過程中我這邊說明一下因為我們委員會在審查委員的意見是希望能夠準決水電費的支出尤其電費那這樣的一個主機系統會影響到未來的電費支出所以改善是有必要但是既然這個是在之前的採購目的就是要準決電費支出那有沒有達到實際的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6420.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6435.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那如果當年的採購造成了一個滋用之後沒有達到預期的效果,那原因在哪裡?這有必要進行了解。不然的話,一再的提供更新的經費卻沒有辦法達到準節電費支出的效果,我想不是我們本委員會所樂見的。所以請民主黨說明一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6438.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6453.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
考試院的冰水主機是兩大一小目前我們要換的兩台就是兩個大的那有一台已經在今年在執行那另外一台就是編列在明年就是環委員關心的這個部分那所以這個部分我們會在一個禮拜提供資料給 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6464.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6486.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因為我們暫保留是說希望在本委員會能夠做一個處理那如果您是到要一週後才能提到那就是變成我們保留送院會協商之後再處理喔最快可以說最快好不好因為你們既然是有三兩大一小那事實上很容易比較嘛今年已經更新的它的效能有沒有節電效能出現就可以來評估說舊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6488.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6501.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
需不需要去換?值不值得換?值不值得投資900多萬去換?這個是剛好有兩年度的新舊的對比,這個很好查。今年是12月驗收啦。還沒有開始使用節電效果。因為這個23年前的那個合約數,我們可能會...23年前喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6509.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6511.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6532.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6549.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那麼是不是可以跟委員會請教一下,如果說為了要準決未來的電費支出,來我們請孫委員我想這個資料我本來其實想說應該現在回去調中,因為我們現在保留就是意思說今天會議希望能夠討論,不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6552.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6580.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這樣子聽起來好像這個今天中午要拿資料有點困難是不是我們就這樣子啊因為他這個提案第五案檢列數是100萬齁在這個941案檢列100萬那是不是這個部分如果今天中午之前來不及提供資料那我們是不是就把它凍結起來凍結起來之後然後這個資料這個是一個方式啦要不然你的資料看起來好像中午之前那我們現在來調看能不能在中午之前提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6581.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6609.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
另外因為就是這個項目如果凍結以後不能解凍的話不能採購對,如果太晚解凍我們就沒有辦法採購那你跟委員報告就是說因為這台機器是它使用冷媒那未來這個絕對是沒有辦法再用今天它一定要更換事實上它真的的確常故障了那這相關的資料我們來處理希望看能中午之前能夠把委員需要的資料講出來你們中午之前有多少資料就準備多少資料過來了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6610.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6631.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好,我想謝謝沈委員,我們第五案是不是也是暫保留,我們等中午之前送達資料。老實說啦,如果今天家裡有23年的老爺車要更新,大家都會傾向,不管是基於空污還是油耗,應該要更新。那至於這23年來他所支用的修理費用,是不是有抵銷了他? |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6632.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6638.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
第2、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院及法制委員會第2、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6655.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6680.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
他們的影音會議系統的設備然後呢就這個目前這個影音系統的設備他們認為說需要647萬5700元那我必須要老實的說啦就這個影音系統的設備啊一口氣要花600多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6682.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6684.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6705.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6732.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
但是如果是從它的優先順序來講就目前我們一般行政委員關切的幾個案幾個案子將冰水主機跟我們資訊的預算的確都非常的必要而且吃緊那所以就重新檢討我們這些採購的設備項目以後我想這個第6案裡面的這個647萬的部分我們可以今年宣布編列那我們以後等到這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6733.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6752.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
已經到了真的他的維修狀況如果沒有辦法再滿足的時候我們考慮以後有失狀況再來做編列因為我考慮今年在新增設備的部分的確增加支出比較多所以引起委員的關心那就這個部分我想這一項我們有這一節裡面我們760萬裡面有6,475,700元是這個採購項目這個部分我們明年可以暫不編列以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6762.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6775.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好來請黃委員那所以如果是這樣子的話既然你們決定占不邊列是不是就把這剛剛講的600多萬的部分就直接把它剪裂掉了這樣也不會影響到我們的執行率嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6778.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6797.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好 謝謝我想因為我們看到這個預算書第68頁其實為什麼剛剛主席在做說明的時候在預算審查的一些規則因為目前到第8案第7案、第8案它分別是一般行政項目下分別有機器設備 以及雜項設備這個是屬於影音系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6801.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6820.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
後面還有資訊系統那麼也是編在一般行政向下那是不是說我們把這個案子幾個案子都看過之後那我們再來在這個幕上做一個統籌的處理好不好好那接下來我們請看第7案第7案也是黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6828.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6839.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
第七案喔你們說在資訊業務裡面的業務費編了1742萬元然後主要我如果沒有理解錯誤的話這1742萬元應該不牽涉到硬體吧都是軟體是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6854.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6857.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
是的對,那就跟我們剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6859.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6879.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那個音響設備是兩回事嘛那音響設備的部分主要牽涉到的是硬體的部分那就有關於啊他們軟體等等要汰換的部分那我們所提案的是檢列300萬凍結500萬那你們現在是針對這個案子第7案你們有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6887.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6913.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
第七項跟委員報告第一個我們這個預算跟今年度完比較沒有任何增加第二個我們去年的過去三年這個項目的質詢率都大概百分之九十八、九十九以上那主要是說它是第一個就是我們是行政院在治安上列等為A級機關所以我們在這個防護等級管理面、技術面還有認知訓練這部分15項的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6916.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6925.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
每年都要編列一定的經費去滿足它。第二個就是我們考試院有對內或對外的14項資訊軟體或系統的維運經費這14項的維運經費也需要大概700多萬所以再加上我們的網路跟硬體設備的維護費 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6939.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6944.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6969.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6986.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 謝謝黃委員再來翁委員那個 你們剛講說就委運的部分是標案委外嗎我請我那個徐組長來說明可以可以請是 原則上都是委外 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6987.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
7012.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那你們如果是標案委員會的話剛剛秘書長也講嘛說執行率也很高嘛那你們把你們在這個向下今年所謂執行率很高每一個標案的項目跟他背後的金額是不是可以提供給我們這樣我才好評估啊因為你們我老實講啦我是一個就事論事的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
7014.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7031.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
當你們考試院提給我的書面資料寫得那麼抽象的時候我必須要說很抱歉我根本沒有辦法很切實的評估那你說這個都是委員然後都是標案那就請你們把那個每個標案的名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7032.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7055.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
具體的金額到底是多少?是不是可以提供列表給我?這樣子我比較好評估嘛因為自通安全當然很重要該花的也要花啦但過去這幾年我也不要說你們不慶被牽連用自通安全當作理由所編的腐爛的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7058.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7076.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
所在多有但我也沒有要這樣子完全去評價考試院那既然具體執行的狀況是如同您剛剛所說的話就麻煩你們提供具體的項目跟金額OK好沒問題好那麼第8案是不是來翁委員那我們再問第8案一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7077.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7077.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
司法局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7107.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7108.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
編列是有按照那個準則來編嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7112.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7138.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
你的資訊維運的費用是按照你原來的建置系統的差不多20%嗎?還是說如果說每年常態性的都是跟原來建置系統的費用一樣高的話那我認為這就是福報?是,維運其實我們編的比20%還更低我們甚至都在12%到15%之間而已所以我們的費用有一部分就是在支應我們之前建置之後的系統的每年年度的維運費用它通常是建置金額的大概是12到15%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7143.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7160.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
每個系統,它的故障的排除,或者是它如果有故障,它的程式有錯誤需要修正,那這個部分就是它的維護範圍,或者是有諮詢這個系統的功能應該怎麼使用,會比較正當的來使用,那這個都是屬於維護的範圍之一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7161.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7163.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
稍後的一些update它也是在小範圍裡面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7179.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7194.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
對,那你們現在這樣講的就很籠統我不太清楚說到底為什麼每年要編列這麼多的錢來做委員我們每年的維護都是有合約的內容的那這部分可以提供給委員參討對,順便提供一下這幾年來你們的這個資通的廠商是哪一家?因為我有發現這個資通訊設備的廠商都是集中在特定的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7209.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7237.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
原則上政府的標案都是都會都是用公開招標、就有利標來去決標那後續的委員都會是…好啦沒關係啦就請你們就提供一個那個那個這個廠商的列表好謝謝請問這是不是也連同第八案一併說明剛剛委員都詢問了嘛我們剛剛第七案、第八案都是屬於諮詢設備好那這樣好不好那我們先也是先暫保留我們先看第九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7238.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7239.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
第九項改列組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7245.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7268.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這位委員有簽名嗎?同意嗎?那我們就改主委會照案通過。好,那這樣子啦,因為我們從上午到現在進行了只有此副理的一幕。那主席這邊是認為說,業務單位對於委員,提案委員的說明似乎不夠,準備資料也稍嫌不足啊。那我們需要一點時間,我們來溝通一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7268.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7275.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
先休息五分鐘我們來溝通一下接下來不然的話今天五十幾案這樣的審查速度我是覺得需要加強溝通我們先休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7313.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7318.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7342.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7360.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7383.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7389.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7761.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7788.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
好 那我們繼續開會那我想今天上午因為有委員我們參與預算審查是不是容我做這樣的一個建議看看如果可以的話我們前面到第二案到第八案那我們第一幕的部分是不是先做這樣的處理就第二案到第八案是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7791.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7815.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
第三案對不起,第三案到因為第二案是暫保留那第三案到第九案,第九案已經是改列組決議我們就這樣通過,那第三案到第八案他在一般行政向下主席這邊建議一個簡列數然後呢我們特別註明其中水電及水電費的部分醫院費 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7817.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7837.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
協商、通案、處理。那通案處理多少,那另外再去處理。那水電會以外的部分,我們就第一幕提一個簡略數。請問委員覺得如何?不好意思喔,我沒辦法同意。其他委員呢?我是同意這樣處理的。來看看。 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7841.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7866.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我也是不同意我是不同意好,那我們這樣第三案到第八案好,那麼我們還是先暫保留因為我們其中有委員認為特定案子要看到資料那我想這個資料我們在中午之前如果能處理我們就提交到委員會來做個共識上的處理好,那我們接下來往前推進請看第十案那麼第十案 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7871.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7882.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
第十案是法制業務,那麼是不是我們有沒有要委員要表示意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7884.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7907.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
因為我也是聯署人所以我就代替謝龍介委員講一下這個議題因為我們知道其實這次看到了勞動部的職場霸凌的事件會讓我們深感其實考試院應該要更積極的對於公務人員的職場保護還有在公務人員的保障法裡面要進行相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7909.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7910.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7933.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7959.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
司法委員提案要凍結法制作業及法規編譯的預算10%就是41萬來請說明跟委員報告就是就凍結10%這個部分我們沒有意見只是建議就是說解凍條件的部分是不是就是等第三會期我們將保障法修法草案送進立法院審議之後來解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7962.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7976.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
做一個解凍條件的修改。就是準備下會期就送草案過來,所以就不要再做專案報告。這個有道理了。專案報告是專案報告,然後草案是草案啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7991.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
8013.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
主席這邊說明一下我想我了解劉秘書長的說法啦其實我們這個凍結的目的是要提修法報告那事實上目前秘書長的一個回應是更積極他是認為提一個說法因為修法報告的意思就是他們要如何修法他們直接將你修的法送交本院來審理那就更積極了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
8013.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
8035.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那時候本案要過不過,要如何去修改,那就是由我們本院的全責了。所以劉銘老師建議說,他們會在下會期對於這樣的相關修法,他們直接提修法案。那如果修法案送進來,是不是就請委員會,我們這邊同意解凍。這個比提報告還要更積極,提報告還要看報告內容,他就直接提修法案來了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
8038.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
8052.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我們是不是就按照這樣的一個意見,就提修法案,不要說一個月內,試考試院向立法院、司法及法制委員會提出修法案後,使得動之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
8054.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
8075.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
8078.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
8107.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
因為兩個條件嘛我瞭解歐美文這樣說因為考試院任何的修法案送到本院來審理都會有一個修法的說明它本來就會有一個書面的說明為什麼要這樣修所以其實上呢這樣的一個送來本院送案到本院來審理的時候就會有一個修法的報告但是會不會在一個月內這個部分應該是大家關心的啦那個預估如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
8109.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
8131.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這個審議法、修法草案、送給立法院審議這是兩件不同的事,不是嗎?那如果改成書面報告的話,那就是說因為預估這個案子一個月內嘛,就如果等到預算通過之後一個月內,我們大概才在修法的研議過程當中。那我們把那個目前研議的狀況做一個書面報告,看這樣可不可以。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
8133.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
8135.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
8153.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
8167.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
因為如果下會期提出的話,我們目前預估的期程應該需要幾個月的時間來跟各界做溝通。所以如果明年,我們可以提一個進度的書面報告沒有問題,任何時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
8169.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
8172.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
其實是其他委員的提案我本來不想多說什麼話 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
8197.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
8224.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
當然跟我後面的案子有關係我必須要這樣講或許從考試院的角度上面來講在公部門裡面的職場霸凌是現在才浮上水面所以新的考試院院長被提名人才在同意權審查的過程當中同意他要立法但請容許我再提醒考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
8225.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
8254.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
你們在之前考試院在開院會的時候這件事情就已經浮到水面上來但你們什麼都沒做我比較率直的講在考試院院會早就浮上水面了但是你們什麼都沒有做提案委員這樣提我老實說已經非常客氣第二個即使不處理即使不處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
8256.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
8285.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
職場霸凌的事情公務人員保障法第19條的規定規範過於抽象沒有設罰則的授權基礎這件事情考試院什麼時候知道的考試院早就知道了你們花了一筆錢請台大教授幫你們做研究報告做出來研究報告又如何so what |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
8287.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
8315.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
花了錢做研究報告清楚的告訴你們公務人員保障法裡面沒有罰則的授權基礎規範不足你們到目前為止針對當初花的錢所做出來的報告在法制上面所存在的缺陷有做任何事嗎?有提修正草案出來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
8318.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
8344.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我看不到啊根本沒有啊甚至那個地方也不改拖了多久連一個安慰辦法你們自己可以處理的都拖了多久現在我在講的還沒有到職場霸凌的階段喔是你們自己過去早就意識到的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
8346.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
8370.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
從公務人員保障法到安慰辦法這件事情拖了多久我為什麼會對這件事情這麼有感覺我2018年第一次在立法院的時候那時候發生了大火多少消防弟兄走了我一樣在這個會議室我針對這個事情提出質詢說要檢討說要改 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
8377.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
8403.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
現在已經2024年了檢討在哪裡改在哪裡我完全沒看到啊所以我才會說委員某個程度上面這樣的提案其實相當客氣啊那至於說在解凍的條件上面我尊重其他委員提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8406.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8414.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
他們希望能夠設的條件那我自己在後面由我自己的提案會設定的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8419.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8444.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好,那麼現在我們這個第10案的部分就是由謝榮介委員等的提案那麼剛剛翁委員有做補充說明那這個部分我們看看這樣做如下修正是否可行原凍結該項預算10%試考試院於本屆第三會期內將保障法修法草案送請立法院審議後,使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8445.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8468.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那麼這樣的一個決議跟凍結4萬1千元並針對凍結提案之要求依委員會決議提出書面報告時的凍資兩個都把它寫在裡面好不好可以嗎兩個條件嘛一個是要有修法案嘛那所以呢我們第三目法制業務第十案我們凍結4萬1千元並提書面報告時的凍資這個後面也加上說 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8476.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8484.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
兩個條件都到達成本屆第三會期內將保障法修法草案送請立法院審議後時的動之這兩個條件到同時完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8490.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8518.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
就是這個沒有啦主席現在沒有啦這個他原本的提案就是一個月的報告嘛修法那個是對所以我們應該按照委員提案委員的提案通過這個好那我們就凍結4萬1千元並針對凍結並提出說明報告時的凍支那考試院承諾本屆第3會期內將保障法修法草案送請立法院審議後他們才凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8520.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8524.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
兩個條件都同時具備了嗎?可以齁?好,謝謝翁委員。那我們修正內容齁,請因為翁委員幫忙做個簽名,同意後我們就列入公報記錄。好。好。謝謝。那接下來我們看第11案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8542.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8568.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們現在處理第四幕施政業務及督導提案二號11案第17案那我們這樣好不好從11案到第17案我們有提案委員的部分就請就提案部分進行說明那我們再統一請我們業務單位進行答覆好第11案那麼因為徐委員好像都請翁委員嘛是不是就請翁委員分別從第11案到第16案的部分主案提出您的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8569.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8590.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我想這邊簡單整個整體說明因為從11案徐委員他當時提出來的也是考慮到就是現在的公務機關的霸凌案頻傳現行法規對公務人員的保障機制不足所以在這裡的話也希望考試院這裡可以更積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8590.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8597.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
因為像保訓會的角色太被動然後法律制度也涉及得太消極所以就提出預算減列50萬並且凍結50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8601.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8603.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
第三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8627.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8628.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8642.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8663.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
像立法院提出專案報告之後才可以解凍才可以凍支所以他這裡提出是凍結數是50萬那第13案的部分也是針對考試院就退府基金投資決策與執行會議的記錄資料公開的時間要提出具體的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8663.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8676.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
因為現在就這個部分來講的話都是所有的決策記錄都是保密那麼也沒有這個密等的這個解密的期限所以希望就這個部分能夠去提出具體改進方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8678.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8685.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
等到鄉立法院提出專案報告之後才可以凍結50萬元。第14案的部分則是針對考試院對於退府基金的機制設計而仍有不完善之處。徐委員這裡也是提出凍結30萬要提出專案報告之後才可以解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8707.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8709.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
十三、十四、十五,欸,差不多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8711.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8732.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
第15案是黃委員的提案以上12、13、14這分別是在第4目向下分支計畫考全施政業務審查及督導它原列數是117萬5千元那剛剛委員從11案到第14案的提案建議有分別是為減列50萬另外凍結50萬到30萬不等那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8739.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8766.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那因為我們這一幕是到第17案那是不是第15案的部分請黃委員提案說我其實在剛剛說明的時候第15案實質上面的理由我已經重新說明過了那為了節省時間期間我就不再復述了那我提出來的是減六一百萬、凍結一百萬三個月到本委員會提出專案報告實的動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8771.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8772.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
第16案公務員部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8782.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8803.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
主要是因為公務人員的關等結構並不是很正常的一個人員結構的分配所以凍結預算85萬等考試院就關等結構的問題提出檢討及革新方案之後上立法院進行專案報告然後才可以凍支所以凍結是85萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8807.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8824.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好,那第17案的部分因為吳昭偉這邊已經同意改動10%提書命報告時的動資,這確認無誤嗎?有委員簽名嗎?有嗎?好,那麼我們接下來就請考試院做一併說明。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8826.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8853.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
針對委員關心的幾個議題的部分我先做說明就是保障法的部分這是我們應該要去推動的工作所以這個部分我們會來處理那考機制度的部分那的確有需要檢討的地方那也引起很多討論那過去我們有在進行這個工作但是還沒有因為有考機法議題很多所以目前還沒有推出相關的這個修法草案這個部分的話我們可以做一個報告來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8855.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8883.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
第13案的部分這個退伏基金的決策跟執行會議這個部分我們有跟TI委員說明就是某些在投資策略的部分的會議他現階段是沒有辦法完全公開但是投資的相關的結果在監理會是一個完整的機制所以監理會這邊都會有效的監督那就整個管理跟監理的機制的部分我們可以提出一個完整的說明讓委員比較了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8884.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8911.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
14案的部分目前退補基金的績效因為有相當高的潛藏債務所以比較好的績效還是應該要去去滿足這個就是去填補這個潛藏債務的部分這個缺口那事實上也還不夠所以如果說這個有績效投資收益就分享的話事實上跟我們現在這個儲金制的機制也不是很吻合的一個制度所以這個部分我們也可以把它就整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8912.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8920.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8942.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8960.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
十五、十六案因為委員特別針對文官制度研究、發展、交流跟出版這個部分我們的經費最主要是定期要出的政府公報還有考試院的定期出的電子報以及學術期刊叫做文官制度期刊那裡面的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8961.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8977.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位稿費、審查費、出席費等等另外有一部分是我們也是跟公共行政界這邊合作委託去做的一個大數據的委託分析的經費所以這個部分其實它比較相關於我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8978.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8994.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們研究跟學術界這邊的交流所以是希望如果說在整個凍結的金額能夠就是針對木來做處理的話讓我們可以至少在跟學術交流這一塊這個部分比較不會有太大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8994.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
9016.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
因為這個都簽證到很多也要事先的包含簽約所以如果凍結的話會造成它執行狀況的不穩定所以如果整個的處理可以到市政業務及督導這整個幕來做處理的話對我們來說會比較在執行上比較不會受到影響以上好 其他委員有沒有要詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
9019.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
9046.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
主席這邊建議委員會因為剛剛從第11案到第14案他是在一個考全市政業務審查及督導原列數是117萬5千元那第15案呢他第15案及第16案他的預算數都是433萬5千元分別是文官制度研究及相關委辦費那這兩個部分是不太一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
9047.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
9068.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那剛剛民主黨的說明啊能否就剛剛所謂的檢列因為黃委員是建議是提案在430案檢列100萬喔這個部分呢民主黨似乎沒有提到這個檢列100萬之後對於你們所說的有沒有辦法執行的部分沒有做說明喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
9069.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9079.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
至於第16案的部分,它是委辦費的部分,這個部分是不是也進行更完整的說明?是,如果簡略的話,就是我們跟相關這個業務就必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9082.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9083.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9103.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9122.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
的處理。這個部分其實執行上大概都需要在前一年就商定議題然後年初開始委託學者然後逐步去辦理所以希望這個部分能夠不要簡列那如果要凍結的部分的話是不是可以在整體的施政業務及督導這個整個幕來做處理來其他委員來黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9130.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9156.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
針對這個向下你們預計要簽的約預計要簽的約然後那個約要做什麼事情一樣一條一條具體的把它列出來祕書長剛剛說的內容太過抽象第二個就你們過去已經有合作嘛做大數據的分析對人力的調動 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9158.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9176.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
有具體給你們報告,知道你們可以做好的決策,到目前為止已經執行計畫,已經執行計畫所簽訂的契約,交出來的報告,以及對你們決策所產生的影響,一樣請你們提供資料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9180.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9206.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
謝謝黃委員這樣子啦秘書長我覺得因為事前之前恐怕沒有辦法有時間我們機關跟委員有直接的溝通那我這樣聽起來到目前審議的情況我是覺得剛剛就黃委員的部分是不是我們一個主決議的方式把剛剛那些項目成為主決議作為考試院在執行本預算的時候必須送交本院本委員會來的是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9207.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9210.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9222.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9242.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對啦第一個反正我的提案就是我的提案第二個主席要另外提什麼主決議我沒什麼其他的意見因為我們立法院走到今天主決議到底是有用沒有用還是參考用的我想大家心裡都很有數啊好來那其他委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9243.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9269.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我想討論預算就是大家都可以表達意見。針對個別委員的提案大家來就合理性然後公部門的回答來做討論。我是認為剛剛幾位委員要求你們提供的資料就是要提供方便委員去理解你們預算項目的執行。因為如果以這一項來看的話,剛剛秘書長在請求的應當是說因為預算就只有433萬這一項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9271.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9274.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9298.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9320.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
除非是這樣要不然我認為是不宜簡列啦因為預算數如果砍了四分之一幾乎四分之一大概就沒有辦法做剛好是足以委員要求做好的事情恐怕沒有辦法做到所以我個人的主張是該提供的資料然後用凍結的方式來處理那如果以黃國昌委員、翁委員跟吳宗憲委員的這個凍結數看起來大概就是100萬以內嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9328.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9333.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
收支部分關於考試院考試院總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9353.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9374.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
好 那麼目前剛剛從第11案到第16案的部分是不是主席做這樣的一個建議各位我們請委員會參考因為檢列數有50萬到100萬凍結數也有從50萬到100萬那這是在第4目向下那是不是我們可以就檢列數50到100委員會提出一個金額那麼凍結數50到100提出一個金額好 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9381.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9402.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
剪裂的部分我剛剛就說了,大家是要求他們做更多做更好,剪裂了沒有錢怎麼做事。等一下我在發言中,我在發言中。所以我覺得是說是不是用凍結的方式來處理就好。我還是表達我的意見。好,來,那個有沒有其他委員表示意見?來,黃委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9404.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9431.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對不起我反對只用凍結的方式來處理我剛剛講的很具體啦你們剛剛說400多萬有很多出版有大數據分析那我們在審預算如果要負責任就一樣一樣要看清楚嘛我沒有辦法藉由這樣子的一個抽象的描述就同意不簡略所以我剛才說嘛拜託考試院麻煩考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9433.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9449.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
你們接下來要做什麼?每一樣以過去執行的成果當作基礎,讓大家知道具體的細項到底是什麼。否則的話,我沒有辦法同意他們的請求,說不要簡略。 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9458.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9465.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
在這裡我也認為說其實如果就整個幕來講的話就是建議減列100萬然後凍結50萬公務員很具體建議減列100萬凍結50萬那個機關代表議事幕的部分如果是凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9484.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9486.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
如果整個目減裂50動100 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9496.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9501.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9526.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9549.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
檢列跟凍結,因為這個凍結的部分如果未來不能夠凍資就形同檢列所以這個50跟100怎麼去分佈這個可以請我們委員會的委員參佐因為凍結的部分表示是以後還有可能凍資那檢列就沒有了那因為這個幕呢,它就我看了一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9550.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9578.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
有117萬有433萬,總金額不高,那是不是請委員會再斟酌一下。檢列50,凍結100。來,黃委員。對不起,沒有辦法同意。我也沒辦法同意。我同意。來,那個,還有沒有其他委員,來。我同意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9581.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9601.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
因為我們還是希望用公視覺的方式啦那我們從第11案到第16案我們先暫保留啦好不好阿主席我們不是三位同意嗎大家都有一次性的決定啦如果沒有一次性的決定我們就先暫保留好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9603.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9622.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好不好意思這個主席這個能力有限啦我們繼續努力推進啦好那我們現在看先暫保留那第17案剛剛就是修正後呢通過我們請看18案那18案開始是18案19案都是分別是翁委員跟黃委員的提案先請翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9636.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9651.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
第18案的這個主要是考慮到就是考試院應該要經費遵截使用那麼現在又在增列要這個汰換一部首長專用車專用車一輛210萬不曉得是買什麼高級車 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9659.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9685.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以我認為說沒有必要而且現在考試院本身裡面就已經有13輛的公務車了那應該在這個院內的公務車裡面可以做這個互相的支援使用好那來請務委員因為黃委員的案子跟本案是同一個向下來請先務委員請考試院說明就我過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9687.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9705.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
9年審預算的經驗各個部會在每年的預算項目都會有公務車貸換的這個項目那公務車貸換的項目第一個他一定有達報費年限才能貸換嘛不是想換就換一定是達貸換年限那達貸換年限要替換 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9706.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9734.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
另外一個理由也是讓他可以達到現在比較環保規格的車輛這各部會都一樣第二個也不會買什麼高級車都是同樣的制式的規定這個各個部會都一樣各級政府可能都是一樣的規定所以說是不是這個清楚說明一下因為我過去在教育文化委員會我們每個部門都是同樣的標準那考試院有不一樣的標準嗎請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9735.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9752.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那麼先請黃委員第19案的部分也是第一個你們現在所謂的首長專用車到底要幾台才夠?是院長副院長每個考試委員每一個人都要有一台專用車嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9754.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9781.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
在公務上面真的有必要嗎這個是我的第一個問題因為我向來對於車輛汰換我基本上面的立場從之前在審監察院預算的時候我指的是我第一次到立法院來的時候我對於監察院政府院長加每一個監察委員每一個人都要有一排收廊專用車我是期期以為不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9783.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9810.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
同樣的邏輯在考試院在考試院到底要有幾台首檔專用車才夠用到底要有幾台首檔專用車才夠用在數量上到底要幾台才夠用請容我再提醒我們基本上面的立場是考試院是一個對文官中立跟考試公平的實踐 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9813.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9832.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
不是必要條件的機關這句話不是我說的是前一任考試院包括現在的院長被提名的人他自己都這樣講在這樣子的情況下要尊協整個國家預算的支出對於首長專用車這樣子的編列我無法認同第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9842.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9866.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我很好奇啊210萬是要買什麼廠牌的車子什麼廠牌的車子現在在報價上210萬還是我們現在各級機關啊所謂的首長專用車啊基本上我們的政府目前編列預算的規格都是一台車210萬是這樣嗎這樣的規格是什麼時候建立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9873.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9882.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
啊如果有這樣子的標準的話,那我就必須要清楚的說啊我完全沒辦法認同我完全沒有辦法認同不要浪費公帑 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9885.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9911.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
請考試院說明我總體說明第一個210萬是電動車這個標準是依照主計總署的規格來處理的那因為現在主計總署的政策上是鼓勵大家換電動車所以這個是這個210萬這個數字編列的原因那第二個部分就是跟委員說明考試院過去當然就是說有除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9912.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9937.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
院長、副院長、秘書長跟副秘書長、市長之外的還有所有委員原則上他都有車輛另外還有兩台公務車不過委員的車輛也支援公務車的使用所以大致上我們的處理狀況是這樣第三個主要要說明就是說考試院現有的車輛裡面在未來4年 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9938.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9943.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
因為他普遍的車領偏高在未來的4年當中一共有13輛會借零15年報廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9949.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9974.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以考量到說可能未來至少依照基本的需求還有考尾可能的人數大概我們可能會有7輛的採購所以我們想說逐年來汰換它可能會比一次編列太多輛來的比較能夠在預算中能容納但是如果委員對於這個車輛的處理的話我想我還是尊重大家的意見以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9977.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9983.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
主席,聽起來目前考試院是不是有13輛車輛在未來4年內都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9988.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9999.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們目前列帳的是19輛然後在未來4年會以4輛、1輛、4輛、4輛每年3輛的車會滿15年那就一定要報費那雖然我們整體不用補滿到現在的數量那因為也剛好考試委員下一屆的人數會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
10013.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
10039.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是還是基本的需求這樣預估可能也是可能會到達13輛所以它有大概7輛的採購的需求那今年會編一輛並不是因為明年一定不夠用其實主要是因為希望分年採購那因為採購電動車可以比較加速淘汰燃油車跟燃氣車的這個比較耗能也比較不環保的現有的車輛所以做了這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
10040.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
10054.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
處理我整理一下目前考試院帳上有19輛車公務車那未來會有13輛已經超過11年會超過15年我說現在已經有13輛是超過11年所以在未來4年內會超過15會達到15年所以必須要淘汰那19減13就是6輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10065.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10068.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
六、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10090.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10093.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10109.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10122.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
剛剛秘書長說電動車210萬是按照主計總署所列的標準今天我有看到行政院主計總署有一個預算處的專門委員有與會 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10128.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10143.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我剛聽秘書長這樣講我非常驚訝所以你們現在主計總署給所有的機關講就首長專用車我們現在的規格就都是用210萬都是用210萬在編電動車然後大家都是用按照這個數字第一個數是這樣如果是這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10154.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10176.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那恐怕接下來預算要處理的不是只有考試院而已。第二個,你們210萬心裡面,你們210萬這個價格是從哪裡來的?你們心裡面所想的,在市場上面估的一台210萬是要去買哪一款的車子?請說明。好,請主席總處吳專門委員明修說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10180.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10202.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
跟各位報告,這個確實首長專用車210萬是一個我們給大家一個編列的一個上限那主要是考量說行政院這個近年有個淨零排放的一個政策要加速把公務的燃油車都換成電動車這樣的一個政策所以我們是參考市場的一個市售的價格還有可以選擇的一個種類 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10204.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10220.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
還有這個電池續航力的一個問題這些因素考量以後鎖定的一個預算編列的一個上限以上說明等一下我這邊先詢問一下對不起那因為我們有我們的採購啊有車子呢有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10222.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10228.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約公共供應契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10243.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10271.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
嗯,目前來講的話,這個東西預算的一個上限啊。連連那實際在採購的時候,當然如果能夠採購比較低的一個價格。你們是用共同供應契約還是主案招標採購?嗯,這個就看各機關的一個採購的一個狀況。目前,主席總書這邊有電動車的共同供應契約的規範嗎?有沒有?共同供應契約了解吧?就是共同供應契約,電動車有的共同供應契約是由 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10273.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10280.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
工程會這邊代機關所做的採購所訂的共同供應契約。從他剛剛講的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10301.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10301.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
來,吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10329.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10352.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
不好意思我從市議會到立法院審了快20年的預算那我所知道的是就是政府部門對於各項的基本的支出會有一個編列的準則那個準則剛剛主席總處已經說了這就是一個編列的上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10353.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10369.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以各個機關就用這個準則去編預算但是實際的執行他要買什麼廠牌有的時候你要買還不一定買得到那出貨的時間也不一定來得及所以說去採購的時候第一個他一定是要公開招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10371.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10375.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10391.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10410.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個準則因為院我們都是憲政機關嘛所以這個預算編列的200多少萬的這個上限是不是各院都一樣包括立法院也是一樣對這個預算上限是所有的政府部門包含行政院立法院考試院都是一樣的一個上限標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10410.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10429.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
所以這就是我要說的這個是一個編列的準則各個機關都一樣那考試院是憲法機關立法院是憲法機關編列了預算上限就是這樣換言之立法院的首長每年也會有年限要代換就是在這個編列的預算的準則去採購然後他一定要公開招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10430.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10432.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10458.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10461.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
所以不問不知道一問了才清楚原來這210萬是要編的是電動車也難怪現在這麼多的機關的電費都要提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10486.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10501.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
電費增加的很重要的原因呢是為了要來去裝這個什麼電裝然後要來弄這些這個電費嗎我不知道這中有沒有關聯性好然後呢這對啊你用電動車不需要充電嗎這個行政院啊他現在這個整體做了這樣子的一個手掌的坐車的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10512.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10514.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10537.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10539.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10552.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10554.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10582.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10606.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
電動車的採購是全球的趨勢是屬於淨零碳排那至於電動車的這個基礎預算金額的編列是否合適這也不是單一機關的問題那我想既然委員有對這個金額表示質疑那我想我們本案就送朝野協商因為這個一定通案所有的公務機關的首長用車如果汰換成 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10608.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10630.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
公共電動車淨零碳排,那麼到底預算邊的基準為何?這大概不是有特別的機關特別規定,這是全國一致的規定。那我想我們這個本案18案、19案我們保留送協商。接下來我們從20案開始就主決議。那主決議的部分是不是我們請委員。19案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10634.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10636.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
第二十案是提書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10653.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10675.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
二十一案也是提書面報告,遵照辦理。二十二案提書面報告,遵照辦理。二十三案提書面報告,遵照辦理。二十四案提書面報告,遵照辦理。二十五案有修正,那麼修正的文字已經如我們資料上所示,是不是如修正意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10676.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10703.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
好,那麼如修正意見辦理。第26案也有文字修正。是,如修正辦理。好,如修正辦理。好,謝謝。那我們第20至24案照案通過,第25、26修正通過。好,那麼第5款第一項考試院我們除保留部分,我們先處理完畢。我們現在往下進行考選部的部分。那考選部的部分是從27案開始。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10706.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10731.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
二十七案翁委員有關於考選部的水電費的這個部分我還是基於就是剛剛之前所講過的理由就是基於這個經費增結要更加的這個要省電所以呢認為不需要編列過高的這個水電費那提出要刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10733.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10762.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
二百零一萬然後凍結五十萬好這樣好不好那個因為水電費的部分之前我們就花了相當的時間跟機關進行溝通討論那是不是我們水電費的部分我們就通案跟那個通案抄寫協商嗎保留啦先保留保留送抄寫協商啦好那麼第28案 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10765.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10785.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
二十八案改為主決議那委員也簽字了那麼後面有做一些就是提書面報告那我們是不是就如提案委員修正的以主決議方式這樣通過好通過好來我們請看二十九案二十九案部分提案委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10795.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10815.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
來 翁委員29案的部分的話這主要是因為在考選部的業務基金的114年的預算數當中僅看到114年計畫內容跟113年計畫實施成果內容完全一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10823.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10838.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
根本沒有看到最近這一年的計劃有什麼樣的成果效益所以凍結預算10%然後請考選部一個月內向立法院司法法制委員會提出書面報告並經同意後才可以凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10839.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10868.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
好,那麼請考選部部長說明跟委員報告我們113年在這個相關的電腦測驗室有新增10個市區4417個座位另外有新增護理跟營養師兩個類科那這個相關的那個書面報告是不是我們再來提出那是不是這一案如果凍結10%的話是可以在提出書面報告後再來凍支這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10872.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10874.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
主管總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10889.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10893.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
數位的提升反而是立法院也在要求提案委員看到了是說這樣的一個成果我認為也合理啦,也不跟你們談也不跟你們說反對,整個讓你們更精進好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10913.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10937.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
二十八案和二十九案是同一個向下二十八案是改為主決議二十九案是要凍結十分之一提書面報告時的凍支是否委員同意?同意接下來我們請看第三十案因為提案委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10942.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10970.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
三十案因為三十、三一、三二都是在同一個預算項目那其中呢,三十一案的部分因為我這邊看到委員的簽名吳宗憲委員的簽名他是修正改凍結一百萬提書廟室的凍支那另外三十案跟第三十二案都是凍結百分之十 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10971.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10981.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好,那是否三十、三一、三二我們都以吳宗憲委員召委的動100萬提書面報紙的動之?請問委員會是否同意? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10988.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
11013.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
現在30、31、32它都是在同一個預算計劃的內容那其中31案吳釗偉的他簽字同意是改動100萬提出命令報告後使得動之那至於30跟32是否一併在同一個項目下一併這樣的辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
11014.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
11016.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
11033.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
11034.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
11049.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
11051.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
11074.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
11094.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那它的原因其實不是我們絕對入企人數,其實我們絕對入企人數是增加的,是需用名額增加的比我們更快。那以112年的,111年的時候,那時候高補考的需用名額388,112年增加到710,那也就是它直接增加322個需用名額。 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
11095.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
11116.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那我們的絕對入取人數其實是也是增加上來但是追不上那一個所以才會產生不足的135那它的處理大概需要我們還是要去因為我們檢討我們以前有一個教考需求平台這個我們考選部是比較適合是在發動然後來看看來提醒特別是需用機關說我們現在有這樣的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
11118.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
11143.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那看看怎樣在流財方面可以更加的精進那這件事情我們會來處理但是在這個相關的這個凍結上面是不是可以再如果可以的話少凍一點那至於說是不是可以就是讓我們是在提書面報告或是凍值以上關於三十案所以你對於那個劉部長是對於凍一成您希望再少一點金額我看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
11149.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
11160.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
一千七百七十三萬一成的話是一百七十七萬一百萬希望動一百萬是不是也是一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
11166.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
11189.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
三十案是一個處理方式三十二並三十一案處理我先處理三十二並三十一動一百萬提書面報告時的動資先這樣確定報告主席是三十一並三十二三十一並三十二動一百萬書面報告時的動資三十案的部分是建議動一百萬書面報告時的動資請問委員是我同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
11192.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11193.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
議員主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11218.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11219.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11246.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11251.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因涉及各類考試、國家考試的試題。因為這都是邀請大家入圍、開題目、出題目這些好不好。就100啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11268.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11286.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
謝謝,那我們整目合計齁,整目喔,整目合計,第三目整目合計,動200萬提出mail house的動資,謝謝委員會接下來我們請看第33案跟34案,33案是謝委員,34案是黃委員那是不是黃委員在場,黃委員要先說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11289.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11307.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那個34案的部分就是要蓋新的國家考試的尾場跟考場大樓這件事情已經是既定的政策我基本上也支持只是我看那個過程我其實有一點驚訝 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11309.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11331.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
就是說一開始這個project在2021年行政院合併的時候是10億到2023年的時候然後把它修正到13億這個我大概可以理解因為這一兩年的確工資成本的確都在上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11332.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11343.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那只是到了2024年的時候就我們2021年是10億2023年是13億結果到了2024年的時候現在已經將近到了22億那是我們一開始估的時候就估的脫離現實 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11357.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11364.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
還是因為10億到13億這我可以理解從13億再到22億這個GAP |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11367.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11390.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
就非常非常大了所以就這個部分就是我也理解你們工程有進度要按照目標去做完成是不是可以先請那個考選部就這個事情到底是怎麼回事是一開始估的時候就估錯了嗎還是有什麼其他的的變故 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11393.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11419.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
來請劉部長說明好 謝謝委員指教那跟委員報告目前我們在工程是由內政部的國土管理署來代辦我們是直接來工程代辦我們覺得這樣比較安全所以目前這個估價是由內政部的國土管理署他在代辦他委託設計建築師的估算那因為我以前擔任過教育部次長我有看過各個大學的該建築物的確這個疫情真的影響非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11420.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11446.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
所以的確是有可能就是從疫情前到疫情後發生這麼大的波動那目前的進度是有把這個再進國外會去進審議護審回來是21.9681那目前就是我們現在在送護審目前進度是這樣那目前預計的進度是114年1月完成細部設計那同時委員也關心這個預期效益那跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11447.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11449.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11464.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11469.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11483.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11505.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這些包含入委的命題老師、事務人員、工作人員也幫我們進去多一些研究生,他們可以的生活狀況更好。這是主要目的。以上。好,請黃委員。我這樣講好了啦。你們書面來的請求是希望可以不要凍結改書面報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11509.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11511.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11529.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11543.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我了解因為疫情的關係人力也好、原物料也好都漲得很高但為什麼剛剛把那個數字特別念出來我相信部長了解我的用意10億到13億這個我可以理解10億到22億 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11546.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11559.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個JUMP就非常大了這個是DOUBLE還要再增加所以就這個部分請你們在書面報告的時候一併加以說明這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11563.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11576.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
來那個專委員我是不是請部長先那個大略跟我講一下齁你這是雷順柏給你發包嘛齁他給你告出來嘛齁他這個數字裡面有沒有你當初你怕一條嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11579.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11606.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我個人因為我還是看過大學裡面在疫情前跟疫情後的建築物價波動的情形其實這個的確有可能的確是有可能但是但是我們就是把那個相關的那個更詳細的估計是在提供因為畢竟是他更詳細的我們是有完整的那一個應該是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11607.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11611.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11637.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11640.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11663.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11689.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
就你們把委員應當有的資料提供但我覺得這真的也是沒有辦法那希望後續的工程順利否則是就是會越來越高是我們遵照辦理好 翁委員還有嗎我們要就也是看到這個謝委員的這個提案然後才發現其實這次的這個多功能的考場 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11691.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11713.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這增加了非常多的費用,將近快要一倍的費用。這只能說你們之前整個整體的建築物的成本的預估太不精準了吧。你一、二年到時候就已經在疫情了啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11714.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11732.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
然後而且接下來增加的這個十幾億將近增加了十億的到底是純粹只是建築材料的費用的增加嗎還是又包括又要再做一些什麼對我甚至認為凍結10%好像都還太少這個部分的話其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11741.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11757.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
視乎應該要有更精準的報告出來然後看你們到底要增加那些什麼費用不管是在原物料還是有空間或是裝潢這未來你們真的要提更細的規劃報告出來讓我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11761.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11783.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好,謝謝幾位委員發言那因為第三十三案跟三十四案凍結數不管是百分之十還是一千三百一十七萬是一樣的金額所以我們第四目一般建築及設備提案案號第三十四案第三十三案及第三十四案本目合併凍結一千三百一十七萬那麼提出書面報告使得凍資好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11794.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11814.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
三十五案主決議是否遵照辦理?三十六案遵照辦理?三十七案遵照辦理?三十八案不知道是不是可以改成提出書面報告後使得動之?另外一個三十八跟三十九 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11815.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11825.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
是不是可以併案處理?因為這兩個案是一樣的。但是九案可以併案處理沒有問題,然後但是我還是希望能夠做專案報告。提出報告?對,一樣,兩樣一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11841.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11843.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
司法及法制委員會及法治部總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11864.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11865.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
第35、37、40、42照案通過第38、39、修正通過全序部第43案 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11893.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11919.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
四十三案也是水電啦齁,黃委員,那我們好,那就一起保留一起一併處理好,那麼四十三案因為是水電費我們是通案保留送院會協商那四十四案跟四十五案好,四十四案是黃委員的提案保留啦他是電動車啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11924.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11947.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
四十四、四十五來請黃委員我覺得考試院喔蠻有意思的都是要買電動車院本不是編兩百億啊循序數不是編一百九十五啊啊不是都按照主計總書的標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11952.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11970.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
請說明,這個院跟部好像有一個不同的編列數,是不是請主計同仁說明一下來,部長請說明我跟委員報告,因為我了解院編的是首長的坐車,那我們是根據副首長,我們是副首長的車子那個羅委員再來,黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11977.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11988.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我的下一個案子跟黃委員一樣只是三的數目不一樣所以我想一併討論那事實上按照全序部計畫的這個購買新副手掌座車是195萬電動車那對照112年更換座車的花費是93萬的燃油車 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11998.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
12015.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
實際上這195萬或是之前講的210萬我覺得這邊的合理性我覺得真的是要再去檢討一下就是說基本上買的是比較偏向中高階價位的車款那是不是要到這種程度所以我這個個人是保持很大的一個疑問更何況油車跟電動車預算93到195萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
12019.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
12021.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
12043.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
12071.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那到了這個2024年有很多單位買特斯拉大概是178萬到189萬但其實國內現在還有一些廠商也是在販售電動車價格是不用那麼高那如果都是編這麼高的一個預算我覺得到底有沒有它合理性跟必要性那另外還有就是說事實上大家也知道電動車現在這個對於公務首長來講他有所謂的遇到長距離公務的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
12072.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
12075.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
12099.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
12116.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
因為畢竟政府現在一直在講尊潔尊潔當然我也知道會講說這個電動車跟環保有關如何如何但是在這個預算尊潔跟這個所謂的你電動車使用上我覺得是不是還要再重新考量以上好謝謝羅委員那請黃委員黃委員有針對事實上要再做補充說明嗎應該你有舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
12123.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
12147.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
沒有啦我就是在看嘛看說你們當初在編210萬然後一個是195萬那看起來是不同等級的電動車嘛因為我自己是我不瞭解這個行情所以我上去大概google了一下上去google了一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
12149.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
12164.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
你們編的預算真的是都是蠻不錯的電動車主計總署為什麼會做這樣的建議我也覺得很納悶我真的覺得非常的納悶 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
12168.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
12188.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
沒有關係反正這個註定要保留反正今年所有的預算有買車子的編電動車的部分看到底是怎麼編的我們到時候統一處理但我要拜託主計總處你們這樣子陷其他機關於不義訂這樣的標準出來全部都是中高階的好 謝謝有沒有補充說明來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
12197.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
12225.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
就是通案最後來處理我們就遵照辦理好謝謝第三幕一般建築及設備提案案號第43、45案我們保留送協商好那在這裡先做一個議程上的宣告我們上午會議進行至議程所列事項均處理完畢為止好的那接下來我們再看是46案主決議的部分好那我們請看46案主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
12231.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12253.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
四十六案遵照辦理四十七案遵照辦理四十八案遵照辦理四十九案遵照辦理五十案遵照辦理五十一案遵照辦理全區部的部分我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12255.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12267.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
主決議第46至51召案通過接下來我們繼續處理第四項公務人員保障及培訓委員會先從第一幕一般行政提案案號第52、53我必須要再說一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12284.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12309.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
對於保訓會過去這幾年實際上面的表現令人失望透頂安慰辦法的主管機關就是你們我第一輪發言的時候我已經說過了分成兩個層次第一個考試院早就該修公務人員保障法我講的還不是職場霸凌這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12311.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12337.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
是專門針對公務人員保障法第19條條文規範內容的不足你們已經花了錢找人做了研究就花了錢找人做了研究像一顆石頭丟到水裡面動一聲然後然後就沒有然後了第二個層次的事情是什麼第二個層次的事情是保訓或主管的安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12339.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12359.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
問題到底有多大你們也早就知道了從2018年進棚大火了以後說要修修到現在2024年安慰辦法長得一模一樣長得一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12361.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12369.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我講的比較直接一點保訊會絕對難辭其咎保訊會絕對難辭其咎所以我提出這樣的預算提案出來好 謝謝那第53案是翁委員同樣的理由就是基於電費尊潔所以就刪水電費 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12391.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12393.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
請保訊會請說明有關於剛剛黃委員跟翁委員所提 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12400.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12403.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12430.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12433.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12459.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12460.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12485.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12505.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
都必須是重新建置然後同時這兩個系統在舊的部分因為還是要維持日常的處理只能用其他的方式維持那我們的經費有關於系統跟電腦的這些都是編載一般行政項目向下的那以上說明請委員能夠再審酌謝謝好來 吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12513.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12533.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
針對一連串的公務體系發生了這種霸凌的事件,我想朝野的立場都一致。非常希望大家從法制面、從制度面去精進。所以我個人在對於在行使考試院未來的新進的不管院長或者是考委的時候,我都有做出同樣的主題的質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12535.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12563.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那我獲得的資訊我今天審預算我還要在清除的秘書長在這裡就是我們對於這個公務人員保障法就這個周……我不知道能不能成為院長他是說下個會期就一定送進來立法院我們趕快審查這是第一件事情他公開的承諾我也這樣要求下個會期送進來然後立法院會接求趕快來一起審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12564.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12565.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12583.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12584.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12602.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12630.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
院長候選人是這樣的回應那審預算我要請你們公開再說明那針對這個防務辦法的期程你們啟動檢視跟期程的時程又是什麼我想這是我們大家共同要面對的跟委員說明好請說明那個保障法的部分這個院長被提名人有這樣的宣示那我想我們都用這樣的速度來規劃盡可能的來掌握時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12632.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12658.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那就安慰辦法的部分也謝謝委員給我一個機會說明就是說安慰辦法過去的研修當中特別是針對這個消防員的安全維護消防地區安全維護這個部分呢當時我記得一開始有好幾個不同的處理方向的爭論那也有說用職安法處理也有用這個安慰辦法來處理以及用消防法來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12660.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12681.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以這個部分也經過考試院跟行政院的討論之後認為針對消防弟兄的部分用消防法來專法處理比較直接有效而且專業可以掌握他實質專業的需要這個部分也得到立法院的支持所以消防法在這個會期有三讀通過安慰辦法的其實本來應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12683.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12706.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
在更早之前其實就有研修的計畫不過就是在消防法在立法的修法在立法院得到支持之後安慰辦法的修法方向才會比較明確因為如果不走那條路徑要回到安慰辦法來討論的話就會有不同的修的方向所以安慰法後來在消防法在立法院審查過程當中最後也送到那個保訊會把他送到院裡面來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12707.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12709.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12729.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12757.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
蔡主委陳如我們剛剛秘書長所提到的前面那個大概我們過去的有關於這個安慰辦法的一個走向大概是就是目前大家看到現在這樣子那這一陣子呢也非常謝謝黃國昌委員在這個會期一開始就提出了這個保障法19條之一的提案那好像這個部分呢這個從黃委員提出來以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12757.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12759.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12779.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12806.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
差不多一半但是這個月開始我們到明年1月我們會先洽詢幾位專家學者來就目前的保障法跟安慰辦法並同這個職場霸凌的防治專節或者是專章一併來先看看哪裡需要有漏洞我們要來把它補足的那法律上面不同位階要怎麼樣處理那因為這個涉及到非常多的專業領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12807.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12832.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以我們預計在這個一月份到二月因為這中間包含了整個過年所以同仁也要這個也要有一些適當的休息所以呢我們預計在一月到明年的二月召開這個勞動法學者心理智商專家學者人資學者的這部分的這個專家學者座談會然後呢接下來呢在二月三月就是有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12833.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12853.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
上開的一些諮詢結果就進行有關於這個各業務主管機關還有勞動部人事行政總署相關的機關進行這個一些相關意見的修法的方向跟確定大概的方向我們會在4月底之前保訓會完成修正的相關草案送考試院審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12855.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12863.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
並在5月的時候送進立法院。這是剛剛吳委員提到我們大致上的修法的規劃。以上說明,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12870.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12899.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
所以剛剛有說明很清楚兩個部分第一個有委員質疑為什麼過去這個安慰辦法要修沒修那剛剛釐清了過去確實卡在消防的部分那事實上消防的權益要在消防法裡面專章處理或什麼其實立法院也討論非常久這個我們都在過程裡頭所以這是過去沒有能夠完成是卡在這個爭議議題那現在消防法修了當然就很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12900.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12918.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
就安慰辦法裡頭該保障公務人員權益的就趕快來進行所以這是過去的沒有做到的理由那未來的規劃剛有說至少五月前會送到所以我對於預算的建議就是說討論預算就是這樣每個提案委員都有他想要了解的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12919.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12921.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12939.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12967.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那如果說委員很在意就我具體建議當然就大家討論看看就是如你們所說的把它改成凍結數在你們交出這個修正的這些不管是書面報告有兩種方式一種是你們的修法的方向的書面報告提出來就可以凍值那另外一個部分是委員如果要要求是等你們提出修法跟這個安慰辦法的修正再來凍值兩種方式啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12968.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12970.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12983.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
13002.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
獲得是我覺得就是看看吧我是覺得我接受了你們的說明或許這個預算是可以照列的這是我的意見我個人支持讓他們做我們來督促他們做好我是希望第一個不要簡列那如果能夠動就著動或者是不動這個我也支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
13002.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
13024.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
主席先做說明,我們第一幕含兩個部分,一個是黃國昌委員所提的,是減劣250萬,那另外一個是翁委員所提的是水電費,那之前我們水電費的處理都是直接通案,送院會學商,那是不是我們就來處理黃委員這個部分,那剛剛吳委員有建議說是不要減劣改用凍結,那不曉得黃委員這邊的意見怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
13028.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
13040.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
安慰辦法的整個歷程其實我在這一屆國會第一次考試院來進行業務報告的時候我已經把它說明得非常的清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
13042.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
13070.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
你們剛剛所提供的回覆請恕我直言根本沒有把整個清楚的picture把它說出來我為什麼說沒有把清楚的picture把它說出來我們一開始在檢討安慰辦法的時候的確是因為進棚大火對於消防弟兄發生的慘劇我們不希望再看到但問題是什麼那個時候在檢討安慰辦法的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
13071.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
13093.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們已經把問題攤開得很明白了即使秉除掉消防的弟兄就目前的安危辦法用在現在的公務同仁的身上規範足夠嗎?不足夠我再說一次即使秉除消防弟兄 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
13095.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
13122.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
用在現職的公務人員身上現行的安慰辦法足夠嗎?不足夠這個問題意思是什麼時候出現的?這個問題意思是2018年的時候出現的所以我一直在問一個問題嘛等我2024年再回來立法院第一次質詢這個問題的時候我只問一個問題嘛這6年做了什麼事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
13124.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
13152.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這6年做了什麼事情我審預算的風格是這個樣子其他委員有其他委員的態度我都尊重每一個委員有每一個不同的風格每一個黨團有每一個黨團不同的立場我都尊重但是當一個機關長期的代呼他應該要做的事情的時候必須要有consequence必須要有consequence |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
13153.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
13180.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
否則的話大家都沒藥沒金了用說啊不行啊你一定要給他足夠的錢這樣他才會做未來才會做得更好如果永遠都是這個樣子的話哪裡有什麼真正的警惕跟督促的效果這個是第一點第二個消防人員放到消防法的這一件事情從去年2023年的時候10月10號 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
13184.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
13212.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
為了要放到職安法他們開始的訴求是要放到職安法人家本來是要上凱道但後來消防同仁接受了他們沒有後來就沒有上凱道我們大家什麼大家也都尊重但問題是什麼但問題是後來轉入要放到消防法那個是10月10號以後那是10月10號以後才出現的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
13213.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
13242.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我沒有辦法理解這怎麼會成為2018年延宕了那麼久充足的理由這樣子的說明對不起我沒有辦法接受這個是在模糊問題的本質請容我再提醒考試院一件事情安慰辦法根本沒有用這件事情考試院是現在才知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
13244.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
13266.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
絕對不是現在才知道知道多久啦知道多久啦可以這樣年復一年年復一年年復一年然後現在跟大家講我們從現在開始會積極努力到明年的時候會如何如何你們明年該做的事情本來就應該要做但不會影響這一個機關這一個機關對過去這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
13274.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
13282.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
他的怠惰這件事情必須要有consequence這個是我提出這個提案最主要的核心理由本來主席這邊是要參考之前有類似的提案就是以凍結一層然後提出修法書面報告及 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
13299.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
13318.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
於本屆內將什麼什麼辦法送立反映審議。那既然這樣的...沒有,這剛剛我們有一個提案是這樣子,是那個保障法,那現在是安慰辦法,那安慰辦法顯然有委員認為先保留,我們就保留。 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
13319.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
13329.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
好,那接下來54案,我們念一下齁,來第53案、54案保留送協商,那接下來我們處理保障及培訓,請看54案54案也是保障法是一樣啦,就謝龍節委員這邊提的,那在他說明其實就是反正你還是請那個保訓會這裡提專案報告吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13349.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13375.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
提修法報告經同意後才動之修法報告那個就跟前面剛剛那個一樣是吧好那我們來請蔡主委非常謝謝翁委員的說明那可不可以懇請這個翁委員是不是可以同意就是我們比照考試院第10案的文字修改這一個案就跟剛剛那個考試院的部分一樣謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13377.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13400.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
你們把這個文字送給那個翁委員這邊簽名後我們再處理好那我們先先跳到第55案那54案就請文字你好後請翁委員這邊看過同意後簽名後我們再受確認接下來55案開始這個是55案都是主決議啦那我們就請看55案 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13402.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13408.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13431.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13441.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
第55到58案遭案通過59、60修正後通過我們第5款第4項工人保安我們那個翁委員這邊看一下我們再回來處理54案 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13476.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13504.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
五十四案我們我們五十四案凍結14萬1千元提書面報告後使的凍資及期許文字如我們提案的修正文字內容謝謝好接下來我們看第6261案61案61案是翁委員水電費水電費的就是好那種保留送院會協商水電費通案處理請看第62案 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13508.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13514.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
基金管理局請問是翁委員要代為 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13524.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13525.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
請基金管理局這邊有沒有要回應? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13553.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13572.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
委員說明,謝謝委員的提案,我們會遵照提出書面的報告,不過因為這筆錢的金額其實還是很大,這涉及到整個管理局所有的推動新制,就是專戶新制還有現在人的收繳,這中間的所有業務的一個運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13573.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13573.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13594.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13614.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
凍結金額,是不是委員會對於凍結金額的部分,因為雖然看起來金額很大,但是它都事實上是常態性的支出。我同意就凍個,就是重點是要督促你們提出報告嘛,那五百萬,我是支持,看看其他委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13615.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13615.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
兩位議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13642.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13646.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這是Routine要使用的經費嗎?來,這一項支應哪些支出? |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13647.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13676.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我們像明年要開始推辦那個新制的那個宣導啊還有那個各式各樣類因為很多作業系統然後我們有每現在交錢的那個收入跟支出這是日常的業務啦那當然我知道兩個月提個報告我們一定會做這個事情只是說因為提交報告以後我們不了解說什麼時候會是不是提交報告就如果就可以開始動之我想那就比較沒有什麼太大影響啦就說如果是這樣一個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13677.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13705.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
委員說明了,因為的確書面報告提交到本委員會來,我們就可以動之。所以我們這裡的解凍條件是兩個月內提書面報告後,使得動之。我還是替他們爭取一下吧,五百萬看行不行。就直接送來就解凍。好,送來就,書面報告送來就解凍,使得解凍,使得動之。那這樣,如果說是書面報告送來使得動之,那我就同意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13706.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13707.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13725.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13745.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以我還是認為就是500萬這是我的建議我建議就還是維持10%啦對這個部分的話對於這個基金管理局這裡你們還不可能是一年之內的預算嘛對不對我們也不可能這個順便報告會拖一年都不過所以建議還是維持10%好那來我也還要有意見表達嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13750.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13774.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
因為過去的經驗我們二月中開議對過完年開議回來然後要排很多的報告事項上來很有可能3月4月他才會去處理到他那3月4月等於是整個年度的一季了一季的話他就變成是10%不能支應我真的覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13777.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13790.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這個比例真的可以拿捏一下啦我真的覺得比例要拿捏一下因為我相信提案委員的意思只是希望他們敦促他們提報告而不是讓他陷入一個支應預算的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13792.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13811.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
所以我是覺得真的在商量因為我們立法院常常他這可能到五月都沒有辦法處理所以我是建議是不是這樣還有主席我想請示一下啦就是過去審預算的規則啦不好意思如果我在教育文化委員會我也當過召委啊提案委員沒有來就沒有處理捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13813.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13820.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為翁委員特別表示謝榮傑委員有委請他接受他說明所以我有特別了解沒有來的委員有請另外的委員特別替他那個而且是連署的委員OK這個就OK但是以前是如果說其他的委員沒有到 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13834.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13836.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13861.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13883.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
這樣好,那個我們今天的案子都是,大概最多就是一層啦。我想也一層對機關在怎麼困難也同,也願意配合啦。我想部長董點頭,是不是我們就剛剛說的兩個月內提出說明報告時的動資好不好,那就一層啦。好,這個案子我們就這樣子處理好不好,節省大家時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13886.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13889.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
第二幕退伍基金管理提案案號第62案凍結1368萬3000元並針對凍結提案提出面報告後使得凍資。 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13903.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13905.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
主管總預算案附屬單位主管總預算案附屬單位主管總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13935.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13950.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我們這邊有一個說明近三年的冰水主機的修繕這個資料我們提供給委員所以我們近三年大概有12、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13次修繕那修繕經費每次數萬元不等這是第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13958.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13983.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
第二個我們的工程契約書這個23年前的那個冰水主機的工程契約書也有附不過它裡面當時是整體工程不是只有冰水主機所以它冰水主機是它裡面的一個項目那第三個部分就是就剛剛委員關心就是那個冰水主機的性能係數它大概是這樣就是廠商這邊幫做的專業計算是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13986.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
14005.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
大概主期的效能每年大概衰退1.2%所以大概23年推估他的效能大概剩下大概7成那現在新機的這個性能係數都是5.02就是以這個新機的這個性能係數所以7成大概就是3.5所以這個數字是這樣子寫出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
14017.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
14043.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以它是用什麼每年衰減1.2%乘以23年但我只有一個最根本的問題現在那台機器的功率到底是多少不是測一下就知道了嗎怎麼會用孤的呢就是這台機器它目前的功率是怎麼樣啊不就測一下就知道了嗎怎麼會是用孤的這是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
14045.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
14067.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我的意思是任何的估計你要有基礎嘛我現在不是在做預測喔我不是在預測說未來20年以後會變如何是現在到底如何應該要有個客觀的數據而不是用估的啊我有理解錯誤嗎這個因為是這個廠商幫我們做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
14071.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
14073.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
14102.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
14109.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那個齁,你們現在這個冰水主機近三年修繕說明這個是同一台嗎?這個是同一台嗎?那這個是同一個廠商修繕嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
14121.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
14137.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
因為有的時候是處理的是冷媒有的是他其他的這個管線的故障所以我們會請相關不同的廠商去做相關的修繕你可以把每一個那個每一個修繕的標案的列表都給我嗎因為這個數字太粗了啦這個資訊太粗了好我們可以再盡快整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
14151.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
14166.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
好那因為黃委員剛剛是第五案的部分那我們是說設法在中午之前將委員所需要的資料調出來那目前這台23年的冰水主機的契約拿出來了那近三年的維修說明呢委員認為還是不夠詳細 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
14169.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
14198.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那是否我們跟委員會商量一下這個部分如果說對於主機的更換原則上是可以接受但是對於過往的處理情況需要提供資料後才可以同意可不可以跟黃委員跟委員會建議是不是可以用凍結送過來才可以可以啊要凍多少是不是就按照委員的凍結是寫一百萬嘛第五案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
14200.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
14201.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
將委員所要的資料書面送達後,指得動之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
14217.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
14245.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
OK,好,那我們第五案先這樣處理那麼我們回過頭來看前面第一幕保留的部分第一幕保留的第二案因為國外旅會我們就通案送院會保留送協商那第三案、第四案是水電費那是不是我們也是保留送院會協商那第五案的部分剛剛黃委員同意就是動100萬那書面報告如他所要求的資料送敵後使得動之那 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
14247.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
14273.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那是不是其他接下來的其他項目還有沒有補充還是這樣那個方委員後面的幾個項目齁我們是併在第一幕向下所以呢就是看您的意見因為您本來是有部分是簡略啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
14274.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
14293.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
檢列的部分,因為剛剛車輛的部分不在這裡面,車輛部分我們已經處理了。其他的部分,檢列的部分,是不是您同意一個檢列的金額在第一幕?因為這裡面有涉及到 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
14296.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
14315.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
第一個是剛剛秘書長說600多萬的那個系統就沒有要換了嗎?就是資訊啊影音啊這些是不是我們抓個金額然後這個是確定的嘛確定的以外多少的金額從秘書長考試院的運作來講你們是可以同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
14319.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
14322.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
14340.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
14369.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
但是如果說今天召委有一個善意希望這個幕看檢列多少那委員會有個共識就不用到黨團協商再去做處理對召委的這個利益良善我基本上是充分的Catch到所以我才說在尊重考試院的想法下除了剛剛已經講得很清楚的那600多萬的沒有要加沒有要以外再往上多少從考試院的角度是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
14369.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
14392.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我是希望給他們能夠有個表達意見的機會了解這樣好不好我先整理一下因為目前除了剛剛說已經要送院會那個整體通案協商之外那麼從六、七、八這三個案其實簡列數是簡列六百萬啦簡列數是簡列六百萬那我是不是就直接提出說簡列六百五十萬簡列六百五十萬可以嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
14402.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
14414.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
第一幕簡列650萬,第九案改為主決議,第三次案保留送協商,本幕合併簡列650萬,凍結100萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
14420.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
14443.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那麼凍結100萬呢,依委員要求書面資料送達後,使得凍資。就書面報告送達後,使得凍資。那這樣的話,我們第二案處理了,第三、四案處理了。第一幕處理完畢了。那第四幕,第四幕我們剛剛是處理到了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
14450.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
14467.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
第四幕我們是11到16暫保留那我們是不是有一個動結數11到16案齁那個我第15案有減喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
14480.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
14504.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
檢列案的部分看考試院這邊因為我們前面第一幕的部分檢列650萬這個對考試院過去來講相當少見檢列這麼多那第四幕的部分檢列的部分目前我們有確認的是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
14505.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
14505.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
五、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
14531.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
14536.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
五、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
14556.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
14566.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
討論事項第一案已處理完畢。作以下宣告。114年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分。審查完畢提報。願會討論前需交友黨團協商。願會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14575.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14590.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
接下來處理討論事項第二案繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管考選業務基金收支部分因為沒有委員提案預算我們均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14592.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14601.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
最後,我們討論事項第二案已處理完畢,作如下宣告審查完畢,提報院會,院會討論前須交由黨團協商,院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14608.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14631.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
接下來我們處理討論事項第三案繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院全序部主管公務人員退休撫恤基金收支部分請參閱提案本及會人本進行討論提案一案第一案第二案共兩案依序先請提案委員針對提案內容進行說明請機關代表回覆之後再作決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14635.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14655.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
因為提案委員不在現場已經已簽名我們是不是第一案的部分就照文字修正後通過提案內容是改動五百萬提書面報告時的動資第二案是主決議主決議部分我們就遵照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14661.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14688.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
討論事項第3案已處理完畢那麼做以下宣告審查完畢提報院會院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員說明好接下來處理討論事項第4案繼續審查14年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院全序部主管公教人員個人專戶制退府儲金基金收支部分因為沒有委員提案預算均照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14690.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14699.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
好討論事項第4案已處理完畢做以下宣告審查完畢提報院會院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14701.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14719.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
好那關於本次會議通過修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過之決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理議程所列事項均已處理完畢會議到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |
| IVOD_ID |
16354 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16354 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-19 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-09T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-09T12:36:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |