| IVOD_ID |
163528 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163528 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T12:40:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T12:56:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de66f455bee177e91e818cf3659852ed250fb52be572812adafc9653d96d06e67c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張智倫 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:40:58 - 12:56:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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選舉的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢好謝謝韓院長各位委員各位官員大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.243 |
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37.072 |
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三位好好 |
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37.935 |
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64.876 |
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卓院長好 辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.557 |
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91.309 |
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這個心神不寧 寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.712 |
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103.941 |
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我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.558 |
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129.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費 |
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130.799 |
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156.99 |
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可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.174 |
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167.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
194億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
169.523 |
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189.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
191.724 |
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212.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查 嚴辦以及重罰院長您支持我這樣的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
214.778 |
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221.873 |
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我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
223.124 |
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249.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
250.313 |
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270.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在3年以下處3年以上的刑期只有1%所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
273.733 |
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294.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友來他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
295.765 |
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319.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
320.323 |
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344.822 |
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所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望做第一個加重它的罰則那未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
347.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
360.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
簡單說明 做一個補充那的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員有提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動分務其實這個要跟委員報告 事實上那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
360.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
377.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
378.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
405.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們跟司法因為這就是法官判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的一個標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以審計部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
大多數的比例是判多久其實還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
476.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成那這個詳細的數字我要想請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
504.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作好 這次我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑的假釋那一部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋但是我們這三萬的話就不假釋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 OK 那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我口袋中的500萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟各位講為什麼因為錢花完了你這樣可能扣到又不多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
534.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
540.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
像我們這種人如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
548.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好謝謝謝謝好謝謝院長跟部長那我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了那我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬那其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於這個嚴重財閥的500萬之內那到底被害者的損失金額多少錢這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
578.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
589.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有一個準確的一個金額可是他裡面提到了幾個重點就是說他裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
590.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
618.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的這個犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
620.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
640.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙金額就是剛才文友提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下那這部分這個我們在位其實這個三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會就具體的修行那另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員幾位委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面提採證的說法就是個人的報酬說而不是整個被害人損害說 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個500萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一陣子剛才有跟委員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋另外那個有累犯的話他委員關心有累犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
695.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
717.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們其實既然我們在審核這些兆頭的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片我跟部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將它落地的四大平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
718.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
743.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
Meta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求它可是剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台絕對是有它的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
744.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
772.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下再來我要講的特別實踐的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
773.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
790.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦那其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
792.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
819.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是有一個講仇的機制那我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是 因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
819.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
847.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速 我請內政部說明是 委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們七月開始的時候呢已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則啦那按照比例現在大概是發給兩千到一萬元左右所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經匯整各部會的意見目前正在審議中 跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
848.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
866.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINE FB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
866.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
896.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者都在國外很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料那我就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
897.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
914.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是 鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
915.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
939.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
953.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
955.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢謝謝 |