| IVOD_ID |
163526 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163526 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T12:08:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T12:25:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de6a2cc2749b18af1a618cf3659852ed250fb52be572812adafef8a19ad8d4174405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:08:40 - 12:25:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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請準備主席謝謝麻煩請莊特院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.046 |
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48.002 |
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院長好院長上任一年多以來國人一直希望是政府是做實事做真事做對的事打擊詐騙是沒有任何一個人可以接受的我剛聽到好幾位委員跟您這邊質詢以及救教之後發覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.329 |
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78.352 |
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你也開始改口願意稱說我們的這些數字其實是沒有太大的一個意義我在報告裡面就講過了因為每一個數字即便你講是說從去年到今年有減少但是對於被害者來講每一個案件就是百分之百的詐騙每一個案件就是沒有辦法拿回來而更重要是態度問題本席第一線長期跟我們所有的警務同仁以及相關人員在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.812 |
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104.885 |
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本席非常肯定我們地縣的員警同仁大家對於打擊詐騙的一個辛苦辛勞謝謝但是有沒有讓全國國人看到說現在的政府帶頭從上到下在拼打詐院長你自己怎麼看我們會有讓國人感受到說我們全國所有的部會首長大家都真真正正放心思在拼打擊詐騙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.704 |
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134.401 |
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外表太陽上來看我們對這些打詐的相關人員我們予以鼓勵 重視 感謝內部而言我們從政策上來強化法制面而言我們希望能夠有所不足的地方我們再透過更強大的修法院長你沒有回答本席的問題所以我們從政策 組織 法律各法制各方面都在進行院長你還是沒有回答本席的問題是過去這幾個月國人普遍印象裡面認為說政府在幹嘛 |
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136.806 |
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161.161 |
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行政院還是在做行政院在做行政院是但是國人普遍印象裡面從不管是政論節目新聞媒體以及相關各部會下鄉去做宣講宣講是講國人認為說政府在做什麼宣講是跟預算相關的話題在行政院的範圍裡面我們跟國人來做說明說實在話院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
180.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本席在經歷過7月26號再一次的選舉我想我應該是很有資格在這邊講這個話從上到下其實全國國人可能都認為今年三分之二時間政府從上到下帶頭都在搞罷免沒有真真正正的在做其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
真的國人關心的 我常說絕大部分的部委首長人民最希望看到的是拚經濟 拚民生 拚打詐但絕對不是拚政治絕大部分的部委首長都在努力自己的工作所以新聞畫面 你看一下七個人在七月因為詐騙而喪命權力大罷免的政府何時才能權力打詐當媒體用這樣的一個標語的時候其實我們是心痛的 |
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208.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
217.372 |
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我身為在野黨的委員我一樣非常心痛因為代表連媒體都認為是說現在這個政府完全沒有在針對民眾想要了解的問題來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.749 |
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240.774 |
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我們每個月都有打砸的時機當然這不能再...你看你又要回來講數字了不是剛剛王玉川委員才跟你哭口婆心講說不要再講數字你說我們從來沒有做你現在又要拿數字來救援不是 是委員說我們都沒有在做我說我有在做做得不夠多不夠好非常好來 院長如果說你真的要講數字我們來講數字什麼樣的數字在你心目中你有沒有一個概念現在一天有多少國人被詐騙從 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
去年到現在我們每天減少的案件大概有350件打在儀表板上面昨天統計有多少的詐騙案件今天昨天我是沒有看我們每天下降的數字從這個禮拜一到禮拜四今天禮拜五還沒有統計出來這個禮拜一到禮拜四有多少的金額被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我只能跟你說這一年以來我們每天統計下降的數字每天有350件如果說你真的說念茲在這的話其實我覺得說這些數字應該都會在你心目中每天想著怎麼樣來降低一點一滴而不是到目前為止還是只能拿這本報告來救援禮拜一到禮拜四本席剛看了一下總共有11億2000萬被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
四天裡面就有十一億兩千萬被詐騙的金額算不算高因為我們一年現在每個現在降到七月份是有八十一億來院長這個比例上就你的報告我們來討論其實本期今天很希望是很持平的因為我們都是要一起面對詐騙打擊詐騙人人有責來我們來看一下數字本期也跟你就數字討論數字因為這很客觀跟科學來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
344.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是您的報告對不對詐騙案件你上面畫了一個紅線是逐年下降的概念逐月下降的概念對不對院長有沒有發現有一個盲點從今年的3月到現在的7月其實它沒有下降它其實是完全有一個持平的概念來我們上一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
347 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
372.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
上一張你看如果說從去年因為你一直強調說去年8月才開始有改變這個登記的方式所以說8月以前你們先不記好本席也同意來我們先看一下就說那8月到今年的7月快一年的時間每個月的數字可你真的看過去這5個月從3月到7月他是一個成水平等於是說15000件每個月有超過差不多15000件他沒有繼續往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
376.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
389.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們就講是說這類似選舉有所謂基本盤啊難道我們詐騙也有詐騙基本盤嗎國人一個月有一萬五千多件可能會被詐騙那過去這五個月發生了什麼問題委員我兩句話第一個對這個數字政府從來沒有滿意過 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
393.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我也不滿意你也不滿意沒有所以我要找的是問題啊他每個月都有每個月的因素因為你看院長我可以請教一下說這個問題在哪裡這五個月都有每個月有一萬五千件每個月我們都有分析過二月份特別低因為是過年期間我現在在問三月到七月七月份會比較高因為進入到暑假期間我現在在問三月到七月特別對青少年的事情沒有針對本協會有啊七月會比較高因為是暑假期間院長七月有比較高嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
446.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
七月沒有下降 七月有比六月高嗎七月沒有下降 因為它是暑假期間 是吧所以院長 本席現在在跟你討論的是說我們現在國內有一個所謂詐騙基本盤就是一個月有一萬五千件 已經持續了五個月有沒有注意到這個數字 所以我們逐月在分析如果把它下降是 那我們剛剛有說過 所以本席才會問是說在這五個月裡面沒有下降的問題點在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
447.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
469.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們說有些案件它是遞延會發生六個月才會發生但這個是一直遞延下來我也覺得一直維持我首先要求的是不能往上升再來維持平衡之後就往下降我們再看下一個金額來我們再看金額的數字院長本席希望能夠跟你好好就事論事就事情討論事情來看一下這個詐騙的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
472.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你的報告也是畫一條紅線往下代表是說這個逐年往下嘛 對不對逐月往下嘛 但實際上是這樣子嗎實際上是這個樣子嗎我們看一下過去這五個月我們看一下過去這五個月嘛來 你看一下過去這五個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
517.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
過去這五個月從二月你剛講的農曆因為第一農曆二月天數比較少第二農曆過年放假比較多所以二月比較低但從三月一直到七月他其實呈現一個逐步往上的數字二月不是天數比較少是大團在休息放連假嘛但是三月到七月是不是一個逐步往上 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
518.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
531.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是 我的要求是不能往上升一定要先壓制所以現在往上升了你的要求看起來是破功啦是不是跟委員報告就是我們要看從去年跟今年的那個重新的一個狀態比較那個也是急速的一個下降嘛院長 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
539.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
566.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
圖形有所不同但是我不爭執這個事情我現在都是拿你今天的報告來跟你救教我今天都拿你今天的報告不是要美化數字數字是科學數字是理性數字是務實但重點是本身現在看到數字就是有問題你不能拿數字之後然後你給我一個圖表畫一條橫線往下你就以為催眠國人說現在是往下不對啊每個月有八十幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
568.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
592.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
五月八十五億 六月八十九億 七月八十六億八十幾億的詐騙金額在被詐騙 平均一天兩億到三億也是經過我們就是打詐團隊的一個努力像以去年的話八月到十二月都是一半多月嘛那你現在就是不理性不科學的做法嗎但是我想這個都是一長期來看 這是下降趨勢就是我們打詐有一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
592.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
部長你還要跟我扯趨勢是不是你還要跟我扯趨勢嗎這個是什麼趨勢三歲小孩都看得懂趨勢你跟我扯趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
603.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
629.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們從去年比較上它是下降的那現在足月有高高低低我們不滿意我們在這裡的對話我們這裡的對話不要讓外界覺得說您不滿意我滿意絕對不是我們都不滿意大家都不滿意所以我們會努力往下降所以民眾的民怨才會那麼高所以民眾才會希望大家好好的做實事做真事做對的事情而不是浪費時間浪費精力在搞其他的政治來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
631.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
659.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
剛剛我也聽到黃珊珊委員有詢問到因為我們認為是說詐騙竟然每一個都是每一個都是一個血淋淋的案例但是我們也看到今年1月到6月這刑事警察局給本席的資料已經財損561億如果看這個趨勢下去很有可能今年會破千億院長有什麼方法可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
662.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
686.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
剛剛我在報告裡面都把基本上的方法講了那這些方法只會越來越精進該橫向聯繫 該跨境合作該加強它的懲詐的效果跟司法院的互相的來就法制面來強化等等我們都會做這個都已經在進行當中來處理法制面的問題我先請教喔因為剛剛黃珊珊委員有提到一個案例這是四天前的一個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
687.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
700.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我要不要跟那個詐騙三百萬被抓車手假釋還高調拍片說沒有想賠我們看一下內容因為剛剛聽起來是院長跟部長沒有看到這一個影片對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
701.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
725.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我剛才請部長要把這個影片找出來到底這個人是誰是真是假來如何處理他說錢已經被他花光了法院只跟他強制扣了有7000多塊但是他花光了300萬他本來不打算賠錢認為錢關出來之後可以繼續花但是因為爭取假釋所以說他才要去和解院長如果說到最後台灣變成是笑評不笑唱 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
726.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
749.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
如果說台灣社會變成是這種詐騙集團車手可以這樣子高調用社群媒體平台還這樣子肆無忌憚的把他的犯罪過程跟犯罪狀況拋在網路上你可以允許可以認同嗎所以我們現在才來講是說是不是能夠針對修法騙多少 欠多少 罰多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
750.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
771.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
他騙了三千三百多萬結果到時候他只被強制扣押七千多塊可能是因為他三百多萬全部都已經花光了所以他名下沒有這些財產我們一般的民間借款借了多少錢可能你都要還多少錢欠款都要還款但沒想到詐騙居然就可以騙多少錢不用還他應該騙的金額院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
773.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
784.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有沒有修法空間我們要啟動修法 請部長說明這部分在委員關心就是詐偽條例43條裡面我們有就高額的一個詐欺那以現在的來講的話500萬元是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
787.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
816.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
三到十年一億也是五到十二現在我們要再多一個級距我們想要是在中間如果一千萬的話就五到十二一億以上就七億以上我想這個高的渣期的這部分的確是要遏止一定要嚴加的嚴辦那這部分我們那個修正查明先再行政再審查中什麼時候可以出來我們這盡快因為這部分還邀司法院來做一個討論我們希望能夠盡快能夠達成一個公示能夠把這個法案送到立法院來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
818.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
832.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
院長剛剛部長回答的是針對詐騙那另外嫌犯但是本席剛有提到另外一部分是針對他騙的錢因為你現在很多的案件其實你被騙的金額到時候你也是拿不回來這個是我們關心的是在詐偽條46跟47條 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
837.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
862.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
他那部分現在以刑事大法庭來講的話他是採報酬縮報酬縮所以說他三千七千塊只拿了一筆這是很不公平那我想我們當初的立法本來就是要全部以被害人的被交付的被害金而縮但是現在我們現在有修法有修正草案在4647條這部分仿照德國立法例我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
863.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
883.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
什麼時候可以出來我們現在是也是草案現在同時因為我自己修了好幾條8月14號那個對那個我們六位六位送過去那最近密集的在做一個開會做一個最近就在開會所以什麼來院長還是強調嘛你不能全部都是積在行政院你什麼時候可以來到立法院我們共同討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
884.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
896.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為這個還要跟司法院做討論我記得8月10幾號已經開過一次會了那開過會有具體結論我們就把它法治法完整 送交大院院長 三個月內有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
898.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
922.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
現在是8月底了嘛我們9月10月會期下個會期一定提出來好不好下個會期是到12月一定提出來讓他可以大院有審議我們希望是在你總諮詢的時候總諮詢結束之後我們就可以來處理一定提出來讓大院有審議的時間好 院長其實本期還有很多的問題還有很多的意見尤其是針對我們現在所謂的這個融資公司專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
924.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
936.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不能說融資公司因為其實大家看到很多的新聞案件融資公司也是現在有可能變成是詐騙集團的一環不要說讓劣幣驅逐良幣如果說合法的融資公司但是非法的很多的融資公司他們有受到法律管理的時候很有可能會被犯罪回酬我們看到之前被逼死的那些民修很大部分也都是給融資公司來被控告的我們會自己把他們的責任讓他們拿來 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
979.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
981.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝侯孟凱文的資訊 |