| IVOD_ID |
163497 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163497 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-14T11:03:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-14T11:17:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ced7f9f61571ec9c7c0bcfc988ac23f60cbfb79a6da4e5ccad52e77be0dc9cff5e92c6d24b32f115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:03:39 - 11:17:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長、經濟部次長、財政部次長、農業部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表報告「因應台美關稅及國際局勢變化台美關係互動情形，暨俄烏戰事與以哈衝突外交援助概況」，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 請各位先進有請外交部的陳次長經濟部的江次長然後總談判代表的袁副總談判代表好 三位長官首先第一個先請教我們這次跟美國談關稅那個對口單位是哪個單位 外交部知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.255 |
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這個主要還是由我們談判團隊好 那就請外交部的長官可以先請回沒關係來 講一下美國對口單位是誰我們主要對口是USTR然後有議題相關的商務部也會參加是什麼商務部商務部對象是誰啊我們出面是行政院的副院長欸講這個級別要先講一下對口你要講一下他們長官是誰嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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可以講嗎?這機密嗎?這機密?第一個,對,就是要跟委員報告的這個有機密喔,喔喔喔,要想完了我們出去是真的,如果叫我們的行政院副院長出兵他對國是誰,張三里是王武弄哉?這還機密? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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跟委員報告我剛才在講的是說我們實際上在做談判的時候當然不會是他們的USTR或者商務部的最高長官出來談那所以他的組成就像我們談判團隊的組成都會是議題去做調整談你的最高層級到哪裡啦我問你這個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.495 |
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到哪裡我們副院長說領軍談判團隊應該是有見到USTR的Greer大使GreerGreer見到嗎以及商務部長Lanik有嗎Lanik部長盧特什麼特的盧特尼克盧特尼克有見到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.626 |
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有嗎 有跟他談嗎我們所被告知的是 確實他們有見到做進一步的比較高層性的討論你今天來這裡是國會喔 你要講真話喔你能講就講喔 你不知道就不知道我聽了感覺你不知道欸你是副總代表不是嗎你有沒有進去談 我請教你你有沒有進去談你 U U Y O U |
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141.633 |
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你有沒有進去談 你 你跟委員報告 我們的談判就是你有沒有進去談 我問你你有沒有進去談在議題有需要的 我就按照長官安排參加那就是你沒機會啊你沒機會你代表總統辦事處來接不是很奇怪嗎原總代表啊 原副總代表啊你都不知道五四三你都不知道 你要來接你現在要去北巡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
171.038 |
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你都不知道 你也是看不出來 你說拜託 怎麼會這個樣子呢你們在揚州 你為什麼不來啊請教召委啊這好像是政府上面的體制的規定是必須要由我們辦公室是由副總談判代表來受到國會的監督總代表不用受國會監督喔沒有 他代表我們整個OTN受到國會的監督但是來這邊質詢跟備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.084 |
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是副總談判代表這個我想是不是是我們政府的體制上面的一些體制沒有這樣體制喔沒有這樣體制喔是我們的召委太客氣喔 |
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241.315 |
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對不對 哪裡有說楊正寧不來的我當召委我就請他來他不來 請假不准剛才說的就是這樣 我們都會我們都會配合委員的指示下一次啊 下一次我開會說我要找你楊正寧你都不知道啊 你要來所以你都不知道 我一聽你都不知道來 我再問一個問題我們跟美國買的軍售美國對我們的軍售有沒有算在貿易盒裡面 有沒有有 沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.608 |
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271.817 |
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我們的軍售的貿易額 算不算貿易額裡面我想台美的計算方式都有不同的方式你這個裡面有回答耶 告訴我 來來來外交部市長有沒有算 來講清楚 這個很重要喔我們現在買的武器越來越多 這個算不算貿易 算不算報告委員好 如果是經過軍售管道 MFS 那麼是不算在我們的貿易的所以軍售 好 那就問你 軍售多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.694 |
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286.883 |
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有多少這樣子管道多少一個是軍售一個商售嘛對不對商售就有嘛是不是商售有商售有軍售沒有那你告訴我們這個比例幾比幾這個可能我還在詢問一下國防部大概多少2比1 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.39 |
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312.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們手上沒有立即的數字 容後我們之後再來提供我們現在國防部 今天是國防部面來所以講清楚了 軍售不算 商售要算那一般來講 其實我們都知道商售的多 軍售的少 還是倒過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.841 |
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336.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們這個我的了解啦我的了解是說我們是這個直接的這個軍售大於商售我就是要你這個答案嘛我們軍售是因為是美國國防部幫我們拔對好等於對口是美國的國防部所以是說他不會算在直接的貿易戰上面但是我知道我的了解是說我們透過各種的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.058 |
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364.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
也跟這個美方的 counterpart說清楚是說我們對於美國的這個軍事採購相當大的數額尤其是這幾年那麼因為貴院所通過的相關的預算我們有相當明顯的這個金額請他們也把這個東西能夠一併的在整個對我的這個相關的經濟關係上面一併的考慮進來這個你能不能去跟美國那邊提出要求啦那個副總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
365.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
392.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不管軍售 商售 都要列入貿易額啦否則對台灣不公平啦這就到底的上前入國的一個條文啦那他想怎樣 我給美國買東西不然算在我們的貿易額裡面一直叫我們買 我們都通常一直買 一直買單結果這一部分來講的話 最少是大於軍售大於商售啊大部分的錢都 你都不扛了在裡面副總代表 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
392.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟委員報告我們想我們台美的談判我們的台美的談判基本上比較沒有去觸及這一塊我們就是談傳在這個貿易議題上面這一塊也很重要怎麼不觸及他今天的一個對等規則就從這裡來的啊從貿易的逆差裡面推算回來的所以要掐起32%這道理在這裡啊對不對就是他的逆差除以除以他的一個進口額啊大家都很清楚啊我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
423.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個對美國來講它出口是1100多億啊是 對吧 從這裡來的啊然後順差700多 除以它 除以二就是這樣來啊來 我們看20%啊 現在變成一個地盤價怎麼樣可以變成天花盤價就是不要疊加了簡單來講 不要疊加所以兩個重點 第一個我如果爭取不要疊加第二個 20%能不能再往下降這是一個重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
451.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
473.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 我們這個就是我們現在正在爭取奴隸的空間怎麼樣可以達到嘛 告訴我們這個不是機密吧這個也是機密 喔 阿你來幹什麼啦所有談判的內容當然到目前都還是保密的狀態因為還沒有到最後底定的之前可能都會有變動來 那個經濟部的次長來 江次長你是國貿專家喔你在國貿署很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
497.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們你們部長講的說說溜了嘴但是檔案都留下來他說大家要付出代價是什麼啊我們增加投資4千億好不好啊這是你們郭部長講的4千億美金請問有沒有在跟業者談這個事情有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
500.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
523.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
報告委員 這是郭部長他以舉例的方式來說明因為他有看到韓國跟日本在對外公佈的這個協商投資的金額所以郭部長在參加與業者的座談會當中有提到這個4千億的一個舉例這不是舉例啦 這已經快要是生命組織所換啦這個東西啊 為什麼我想上旬入國就在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
528.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
543.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
日本的GDP4點多兆美金我們的GDP0.8兆他大概是我們的五六倍所以他投資5500億換的一個說地板價變成天馬板價我們按照日本的GDP來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
544.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
571.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
投資一千億都夠了 一千億美金綽綽有餘啦如果沒有把台積電算進來的話 那就已經達到了已經達到了 這樣很好算啦就這個來講 副總代表 你聽一下喔雖然你也沒有進到裡面去啦我今天才知道你根本就沒有進到裡面去然後不僅僅這樣子 我們還要爭取關稅20%往下降副總代表 來來來 副總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
574.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
594.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這兩個重點可以嗎這個就是談判小組在努力的 沒錯好 這我講完就結束了其實我們都知道 還有一大塊很重要的國內人大概都只注意到說 我去美國的美國現在 就是鄭麗君副院長說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
595.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
607.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
美國一直丟出來新的東西其中很重要的要台灣開放市場特別是農業 汽車業這一部分你能不能跟美國談 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
608.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
625.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
比如說汽車的 我用貨物稅來取代關稅的條件貨物稅 基本上來講的話 財政部是比較去注意的用貨物稅 這貨物稅也被川普總統認定為非貿易障礙裡面的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
638.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
各國的貨物稅其實都跌很高我們的貨物稅很高啊 不同息息數這個非常高的 有20%以上的等等的 這一部分是不是你們也是要列入的談判範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
640.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
658.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我想我們跟美國談判的東西基本上是按照美國它的主要的需求來提出那對台灣來說貨物稅可能不是一個單純的汽車的問題它可能是一個整體性貨物稅有沒有對於不同的產業有租稅公平以及有沒有按照我們現在的時事需求去科證這個貨物稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
688.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以我想這個會是政府在做整體性貨物稅減稅的時候去考量的方式農業 農業要進一步開放嗎農產品會進一步開放嗎這個你不能講是不是謝謝委員你不能講 那你來那邊做啥都不能講來這裡要黑箱到這裡對不對就是美國所有他有提過關稅非關稅的議題都是在我們台美談判的議程上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
689.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
712.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
都不能講 你都不能講 公開不能講我們現在就是按照保密協議的方式 盡可能來鄭麗君 因為副院長公開已經講了美國跟我們談 每一次丟一個新的議題裡面有汽車 有這個農業的東西都有他都公開講了 你這裡又不能講 你是要來中產化嗎 不知道副院長有提到說 汽車是屬於美規車是非關稅的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
716.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
723.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
當然是一併考慮的那裡有廢棍所以主席跟主席報告我們的副總代表今天來都說這都機密的這個東西今天是公開的所以應該是據此以報 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
735.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
755.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
據實與報啊 你在這裡有這個義務要誠實講要你知道的誠實講 除非你都不知道你是說你都不知道 因為你沒有進去那個房間裡面談對吧 你沒有進去房間裡面談各位委員報告 我們剛剛有提到是按照議題的分工 由談判的小組來決定參與你們 我最後一個細節問我就下去了你們總共跟美國談了幾次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
761.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
771.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們實體的面對面談判有進行四次幾次啊四次是啥四次的實體面對面的談判四次實體面對面你參加了幾次你參加了幾次請問你我們就是你參加幾次啦嚴副總代表你參加幾次你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
781.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
803.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我想我們整個談判的團隊就是是需要我們來支援談判小組你還是沒辦法回答我這個讓我就高度質疑你根本就是狀況外你只是拿來當炮灰而已來立法院當炮灰你根本you know nothing你根本什麼都不知道你自己也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
804.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
827.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這樣子對不對這個瞧不起立法院了找一個不知道的人來備詢怎麼會這樣子呢那你要跟我回答啊回答這問題你一直不回答我就沒辦法下來啊面對面面對面的meeting裡面你參加幾次你回答我就這個問題回答我參加幾次一次比較多一點兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
832.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
832.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
謝謝萊斯堡委員 |