| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685eb73709123985790b6918ac9a8133975a82e37f9ba35fd77e0add072e28e6ed55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。(公務及基金預算)
三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心114年度預算書案。
【所列預算案，僅詢答，113年12月9日下午5時截止收案】
【業務報告及討論事項綜合詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
21839 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:01 - 14:35:00 |
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一、邀請勞動部長列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1743.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1745.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
二、請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1760.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1781.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議一事錄時間113年12月4日星期三九十一分至十六時五分地點群閑樓801會議室出席委員王委員玉敏等14人列席委員徐委員巧欣等31人列席官員勞動部部長洪森翰等相關人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1782.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1796.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主席蘇躁及委員清泉報告事項、宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定、邀請勞動部部長針對勞動部勞動力發展署北基移花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及其層進行專題報告並備質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1799.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1823.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本次會議由勞動部部長報告後委員王玉敏等28人提出質詢均經勞動部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆委員盧憲一、徐宇貞及張雅玲所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報決定一、報告質詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定通過臨時提案二項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1831.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1840.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問委員會上次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處﹖沒有﹖好,議事錄確定短日會議已成為一﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1841.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1862.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
要請勞動部長列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。),二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管公務及基金預算以及財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心114年度預算書案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1863.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1887.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
以上業務報告及討論事項才綜合詢答。現在介紹在場委員及列席官員。包括陳昭芝委員林業群委員在現場官員包括勞動部黃森漢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1892.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1916.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
勞動力發展署陳世昌代理署長勞工保險局白立貞局長勞動基金運用局蘇利清局長職業安全衛生署周子年署長勞動及職業安全衛生研究所李伯昌所長綜合規劃師王厚誠市長勞動關係師王厚偉市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1921.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1930.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
勞動保險師陳美女師長勞動扶持退休師謝倩倩師長勞動條件及就業平等師黃維琛師長勞動法務師傅惠芝師長秘書處丁玉珍處長人事處江碧玲處長政風處周志信處長會計處林美信處長統計處梅佳人處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1953.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1966.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
資訊處劉淳坤處長、財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心何俊傑執行長、行政院主計總處公務預算處張家瑜專門委員、基金預算處劉雅斐科長這邊一個宣告原定於12月9日 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1982.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2003.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
十七點節止涉案之勞動部公務基金及財團法人預算提案應由委員提出不同之提議故特此宣告中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算含公務基金及財務財團法人提案節止延長至12月11日 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2006.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2019.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
17點指敬請各位同僚留意提案收件截止時間以利益事順利。接下來請紅部長就本日會議議程勞動部業務概況及預算審查並案報告時間10分鐘。部長請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2035.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2062.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好主席然後各位先進然後各位記者朋友大家好那今天很榮幸在這在此提出首次的業務報告近期霸凌的議題其實造成勞動部同仁重大的打擊那對於一個年輕生命的逝去我感到十分的遺憾跟感傷與此同時也更深刻的體察到勞動部目前在制度設計業務分配合理性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2064.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2086.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因此對於霸凌案件重啟調查,我要求要從被害者的角度去重新還原檢視整個事件發生的歷程。另外,我已經指示業務單位要主動了解國際做法並邀請專家學者來研商妥善建構職場霸凌防制的法制化作業,讓勞工能有更完善的勞動條件跟職場保障。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2086.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2106.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
此外為了協助勞工朋友兼顧家庭和職場我們希望在照顧不離職的前提之下推動各項重返職場與續留職場的協助措施包括婦女再就業、促進中高齡及高齡者就業各種價別的規劃放寬育嬰留庭、多元陪伴照顧計劃還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2108.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2131.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
補助企業設立托兒設施、鼓勵推動友善工作措施等這些都是希望可以讓勞工朋友們能夠更安心的在職場兼顧工作和生活勞保改革也是大家非常關注的議題攸關勞工退休後的生活保障在參考各國的經驗後我們認為改革有很多種方式並不局限於撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2132.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2160.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
比如現在勞動基金到今年10月底整體收益數達到9300多億運用規模有68006兆8000多億因此勞動部未來除了會以維持基金水位的目標包含持續的撥補多元投資強化納保和給付審核等我們不會設限做法並且會持續與社會各界溝通凝聚共識各界所提出的寶貴意見我們都會予以審酌納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2161.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2173.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
改善缺工也是我們的當務之急對於嚴重缺工的產業別與職務勞動部都會持續透過跨部會合作辦理專案媒合並且提供缺工產業的轉型訂定專案職缺合理的薪資條件等 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2177.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2195.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
以及運用各種就業獎勵措施積極開發勞動力在外籍勞動力運用方面我們會從不同面向處理包括在臺灣工作滿6年以上的移工或是取得我國副學士學位以上的僑外生在一定條件以上可以留在臺灣工作來舒緩中階技術人力短缺的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2196.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2220.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
另外針對僑外生的部分除了已經開放樓台從事旅宿業工作以外也規劃新增醫院的輔佐倉儲公路及市區客運駕駛等6種工作我們也會強化移工一站式整合服務的推動讓僱主和移工都能獲得最完善周全的服務和照顧至於移工失聯的問題我們會與相關部會合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2222.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2243.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
加強源頭管理與後端查記除了強化中間公司的管理責任後續將要求主管機關建立移工失聯的風險管控應變措施本人過去曾參與職保法的立法工作因此我非常重視職災勞工的照顧與後續協助我已經指示業務單位要安排我 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2244.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2260.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
拜訪職災失能的勞工會親自前往瞭解他們有什麼需求以及在職業傷病整治醫療復健職能重建等整合性的服務和體制當中還有哪些我們可以做得更好的空間能夠妥善的協助職災勞工從順利重返職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2263.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2291.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那減災其實也是勞動部一直以來努力的方向我們會繼續思考並落實能夠降低各行業職業災害發生的可能的方法此外隨著經濟結構的轉變連帶造成勞動關係形態與樣態的調整勞動部除了要不斷與時俱進掌握各種新型態的勞動模式外對於勞動三權要有更周延的保障我們會持續營造有利於勞工結社的環境協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2294.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2312.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
勞資協商及簽訂團體協約對於有需求的勞工朋友提供法律輔助的服務以及補助勞工輸送期間必要的生活費當然平台外送員派遣或承攬的勞工的勞動權益的保障也是我會很著重努力的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2313.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2328.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們不僅要多面向的保障勞權還要積極回應公正轉型的目標勞動部已經訂定了進行排放公正轉型勞動議題框架指引將函送各中央目的事業主管機關參考使用以共同保障勞工的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2329.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2344.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在薪資脫離化方面我們規劃要在114年要求企業招聘員工時薪資揭示門檻要調高到5萬元也就是說薪資未達5萬元的職缺要公開揭示 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2345.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2371.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
制度的研擬和推動除了需要公部門積極規劃以外還需要傾聽不同團體不同角度立場的聲音因此我希望勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位而是能夠更貼近勞工的需求提出有效方案及問題解決導向的部會最後感謝各位委員的指教也希望各位可以給予我們監督那另外針對這個預算編列的情形我在這裡也訂這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2376.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2395.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
還是要先感謝各位委員對於本部所屬機關和財團法人預算的支持和監督那以下僅就114年度預算編列的情形提出報告首先先就單位預算案、附屬單位預算案及信託基金預算案的部分進行說明114年本部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2396.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2403.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
預算部分稅入預算編列是9.99億元主要為歸費收入5.4億元佔54%其餘上有罰款及賠償收入財產收入及其他收入稅出預算編列是2928.82億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2416.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2433.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
主要為依法律義務必須編列的勞健保等補助支出1613.46億元其餘項目包括波普勞工保險基金1200億元其他業務推動及基本運作需求113.05億元公共建設計劃0.19億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2438.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2448.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
科技發展計畫金費是2.12億元有關法律應用支出及撥補勞工保險基金以外之重點預算項目說明如下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2451.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2465.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
為建構友善生養環境提升相關經濟支持受雇勞工運流值停薪津貼加急補助產檢價賠產價薪資補助與行政費用編列39.62億元為提升勞動保障及年金服務品質編列3.3億元精進及維護核心業務系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2478.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2501.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因應鬧役自由化對勞工就業的協助編列3.01億元．落實危險性機械及設備檢查與管理編列2.57億元．職場安全衛生與勞動保障研究及勞動資料應用研究編列2.12億元．其他預算項目包括人事費43.38億元．補助職業工會辦理勞工保險及勞工職業災害保險業務3.69億元等． |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2508.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2519.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
又上開稅出預算案機關編列情形包括本部編列2859.69億元勞工保險局編列37.12億元以及所屬編列是7.39億元職業安全衛生署編列8.93億元勞動基金運用局編列2.47億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2533.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2542.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
勞動及職業安全衛生研究所編列3.12億元另外本部主管附屬單位預算案即信託基金預算編列行為如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2544.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2555.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
勞動保險局作為基金設立的目的是為了完善勞工保險制度以維護被保險人的生活安全。業務收入編列7431.92億元。業務成本與費用編列7435.73億元。社會安定基金設立目的是為了辦理促進國民就業等業務以增進社會安定及經濟發展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2570.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2592.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
基金來源編列298.02億元基金用途編列273.37億元基金用途較113年度減少主要是因為疫情期間擴大辦理初次尋職青年穩定就業計劃因疫情舒緩及疫後就業情況好轉令經行政院合併投資青年就業方案第二期 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2593.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2608.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
已經實框列編本計劃3.5億元,原本年度依實需予以檢列,那編列內容包括促進國民就業計劃編列218.1億元,外國人聘僱管理及許可計劃編列36.7億元,提升勞工福祉計劃編列15.91億元,勞工權益輔助計劃編列0.67億元,在信託基金部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2621.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2634.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
救濟勞退基金總收入編列314.8億元總支出編列34.53億元勞退薪資部分總收入編列1644.85億元總支出編列1.89億元基欠工資電藏基金部分總收入編列12.75億元總支出編列5.57億元接下來緊就財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心業務計劃及預算編列期型提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2650.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2668.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
該中心為推展國家規劃之職業災害預防與重建政策,協助辦理職業災害預防及職業災害勞工重建相關業務,使每一個工作者都可以安心健康地工作保護職災勞工的權益。該中心114年度收入入邊列3億 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2670.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2697.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
三億九千九百零六萬支出編列三億九千多萬較113年度預算增加主要是因為114年度擴大推動職業災害預防及重建業務及員工人數由130人增加到140人等業務所致以上收支相抵後本期剩餘180萬元該中心成立後我國職業災害預防及重建工作已邁入新的里程碑 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2698.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2727.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那能多方為職業勞工及眷屬服務對於職災家庭的保護可以更加的完備那本部114年所編列預算均為落實與增進勞工朋友權益及福祉相關支出希望各位委員鼎力的支持與指教謝謝好謝謝洪部長的報告有關本日會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在開始詢答做以下宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2728.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2752.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
一、本會委員尋答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘二、10點半截止發言登記三、委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理四、暫定10點半休息10分鐘五、本次會議不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2759.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2762.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
有請紅部長。 請紅部長。部長早安。我今天要跟你談大林電廠的鬼故事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2775.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2796.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
大林電廠用了不少不合格的防爆電氣管配件這件事這個弊案我追了很久那也質詢過何部長那我也跟民眾黨其他委員一起召開過記者會那上個禮拜我收到經濟部下面的一個財團法人金屬中心的正式檢測報告他們按照CNS國家的規範還有國際ASTM的作業規定幫助勞動部職安署對大林電廠抽測的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2805.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2818.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
防暴電氣管配件進行完整的這個檢測我先請教部長金屬中心是政府掌控的那他們的報告應該具有公正性跟這個準確性吧阿不然老安署職安署不會請他們來幫忙做這個檢驗是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2822.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2837.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
當然金屬中心的報告當然都有它的參考性。好那部長請你看簡報上右邊這張表還是檢測結果我問過金屬中心上面的製造廠商產品名稱型號抽測地點都是台電提供的他們只是照打上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2838.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2854.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
然後最後一欄石墨求化率的百分比是金屬中心把檢測結果填上去那麼按照臺電採購的規範及所提供的資料臺電採購防爆器管配件材質必須是鋼或是球末鑄填 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2855.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2877.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
求墨注鐵依照國家的CNS標準,實墨求化率必須是80%以上才可稱為求墨注鐵。但是我們從檢測結果來看,不知道你看到這個紅框框起來的,一、三、四、七、八、九都沒有達到80%,所以是屬於不合格的產品。那請問勞動部收到這份報告後有做任何調查嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2879.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2894.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
各位報告那個報告我們有收到我們有再找另外一家公司再做double check那至於這個像這種這個採購案件我們在第一時間也那個部產品部也移送那個委託廠商給那個。你在調查中我等你的結果那我想請部長仔細看這個項目8 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2897.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2924.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
依照這個臺電供給這個職安暑期金屬中心的製造廠商是鄭鶴公司那產品叫圓形接線盒求化率是零零就是相當於最低階的灰口鑄鐵部長外面那個大馬路上的水溝蓋就是這種材質不可能防爆但是我也請你看10一樣是這個鄭鶴公司產品的名稱也是都是圓形接線盒但求化率有88% |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2926.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2944.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
合格,請你先牢牢記住這兩個項目好嗎?那我對於台電要跟哪一家公司來購買這個防爆管的配件,我認為就是你就是依照這個採購法來進行,那任何人任何立委都不應該涉入這橋式,因為我們的職責是監督,部長你同意或支持我這個觀點嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2947.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2968.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
委員這個立場是沒有錯的當然那部長我的個性絕對不會幫特定廠商這個講話有弊端就該追究但是我無法接受台電內部人員竟然有人想藉著這一次職安署的這個抽測想利用我立委的當立委的身手去修理特定廠商利用你嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2969.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2991.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
對我為什麼我這樣講還有包括指安署的檢測因為前面10個項目剛剛我提到那10個項目其中有7項就他抽了很多項但是其中有7項是臺電指定給指安署抽的好那在上千上萬個這個防暴配管件中臺電特別指定了一個你看看有明顯是有斑駁有鏽蝕的這個仿冒品圓形接線盒 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2995.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3013.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
就是項目八啦那檢測結果就剛剛我報告是求法率是零那我的辦公室主任有參與這次這個抽測他在現場覺得怪怪的為什麼都是你台電指定給指南署呢所以他當場也抽了很多件抽了三件那其中有一件就是第十 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3014.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3032.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那就是說這是其中一項第10那按照前面那張表8跟10部長請你注意同一家廠商同樣是美國著名大廠叫Appleton生產的這個圓形接線盒但是檢測出來一個是求化率是0一個是88%部長你覺得合乎常理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3039.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3046.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
如果從這個數據上面看起來同樣的東西對確實我覺得這邊會有些需要細究的必要那我進一步查詢嘛要求財電提供當時你的採購進抽驗單那尤其是這10個項目但是這個他們提供我們的第8項是不清楚的不完整那過幾天我只好請他們到辦公室來說明了直接帶當時的這個查驗單到辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3067.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3087.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
臺電知道東窗事發了來電說明的這個臺南臺電南部施工處的正信經理改口了這個項目8就是也就是剛剛你看到的那個這個原型接線盒並沒有材料查驗申請單正信經理並且承認這個項目的原型接線盒是當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3088.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3116.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
大林電廠工芯改建工程的統包商叫做現代熱鐵公司下面的一個承包商叫做成鋼公司他沒有經過台電查驗甚至將這個來自興達漁港工程的漁料拿來裝在大林電廠的煤倉工程中我上面這些說明都有台電中風在場的這個說明會議上當面錄音的這個證據而且這個會議紀錄我也把副本給了這個職安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3117.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3118.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3134.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3150.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但是治安署是不是也要調查呢?這個防貿品是生產的,我很擔心喔!治安署跟我都同時被利用啊,要去借我們的手去打特定的廠商。那勞動部是不是應該搞清楚台電在搞什麼鬼?還是認為,部長認為,你認為這個勞動部被當這個打手沒關係?我是拒絕喔!我被拒絕當打手的喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3155.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3174.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那個車員吼我們絕對不允許這個我們勞動部其實作為管制單位被當作是任何廠商競爭任何一方的打手我們絕對不允許這件事情所以一定是從管制的法規來去做出發這是我們一定強烈要求的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3174.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3200.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好,我等你的結果。好,鬼故事講完了。部長,上次我質詢的時候我有請教你,因為環境部彭部長他不但答應了,而且用公文指示說,員工下班以後如果要發LINE給員工,要當寫這個專案加班,只要下班的時間發LINE就是加班。那我問部長,部長您上次說就是說這個國外有一些情境,可能類似,但是沒有直接回答我。那我質詢結束後,很多勞動部的基金員工跑來問我啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3203.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3230.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
他說委員你應該繼續追問下去啊那這個部長我今天再問你齁勞動部主管下班傳亂給員工就是加班那應該要有加班費或是補休你做得到嗎?這個我想我們會優先來做的是說把這些真的不必要的工作排程導致的加班的狀況我們會優先的來改善但是你做得到嗎?難免啊如果環境部做得到勞動部做得到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3232.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3250.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們會優先的先來降低：立勞動部委員工士氣現在是最壞的時候你若沒一個實際作為他們會很心寒部長你今天沒辦法承諾我嗎那個委員我說這樣子的工作情境當然我們在一些國外其實有看到那我覺得我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3251.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3261.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我們會盡力的往減少加班的方向來做這個就業安定基金還有勞動部的預算很多委員關心我現在要告訴你一件事勞動部還花錢在養一些慣老闆去年勞動部本部決標的標案有99件我把這99件的標案 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3269.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3296.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個得標廠商去丟到那個違反勞動法令的查詢系統去交叉比對不得了了發現有25件的這個得標廠商近年都違反過勞動法令而且很多是慣犯這些廠商累計的這個違規次數到去年只剩到去年是194次等於說勞動部有四分之一的標案都是給違反近期違反勞工法令的廠商部長你覺得這樣合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3300.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3306.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們這部分我們會依照目前採購法跟工程會的一些相關的規範來進行。我跟你講我再告訴部長這99件的標案大概總金額是八千八百萬但是這些罰款累計139次的罰款金額才一百七十幾萬部長你覺得不是很奇怪難怪每個企業都不怕違反勞動令因為本來你是可以罰到二十萬但都罰一萬兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3327.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3343.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那他們想說我繳錢了事啊消花錢消災啊那你勞動部到底這個罰款是你要繼續反正你罰了我你就繼續給我標案啊等於我犯規了我還繼續有堂吃啊部長這件事我要求一個月內給我書面報告合理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3345.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3359.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這個這部分現在討論這個議題其實我也蠻關注的齁那尤其是我就是給我一個報告嘛你們就發票給這麼多沒有問題這個他賺八千八百萬結果你罰了一百多萬他當然不怕嘛我會請業務單位做相關的說明跟檢討提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3360.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3376.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
問題這個數字您大概很清楚吧因為當時我也質詢過從許部長到何部長那新的來源國新的來源國那這個應該是很好談執聘跟居土居的時候可是部長您也當時也提供說您覺得目標有競爭力的事你講出來那我請問你5%您覺得符合競爭力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3382.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3393.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個回答陳委員我當時其實說競爭的意思是我們要相對於這個仲介的這一個軌道要讓國家的職聘做到好用這個要讓他有競爭力那這個5%的目標是底線 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3398.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3407.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個百分之五的目標是底線我當然希望可以做到更多最後一件事是外籍漁工的權益你知道台灣遠洋漁業今年又被美國列為這個強迫勞動清單吧連續三年了你知道嗎這是個惡名欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3415.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3420.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我知道遠洋漁工主要是屬於農業部來主管但是勞動部還是有角色啊尤其這個漁業人權行動改善方案勞動部是有一些參與的啊實驗部我問何部長我說這些遠洋漁工常常面臨薪資被扣超時加工還有肢體虐待那何部長說事件都消失了那他就已經沒有這件事情了他還說他跟美國反應但是但是移工團體跟我的反應都不一樣欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3442.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3469.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
二、如果這個情況都消失為什麼美國還把我們列在這個強迫勞動清單裡面呢所以部長是這樣子第一個勞動部真的有去澄清嗎向美國澄清說你幫我把從臺灣從這個惡名拿掉你有做嗎有去澄清嗎所以我在這裡我說明我對這件事情的看法其實對於目前國際上面對於強迫勞動議題其實我認為其實我們的政府都需要更加的重視部長告訴我說沒這件事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3470.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3493.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我先說明因為這確實就漁工的部分他其實目前是農業部主管但我自己認為我自己認為有做的可以可以有做的更好的地方而且勞動部也願意跟農業部包括漁業署一起針對強迫勞動的議題我們能夠來找到更多如果有能做而未做的地方我也願意能夠做更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3493.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3507.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這部分勞動部非常非常願意來配合來克服這個事情。如果美國沒有誤會我們,我們就是這些現象都還存在嘛。好,請部長多努力。好,謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳昭志委員的發言。部長請回座。下一位我們請林月群委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3520.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3532.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
主席麻煩我們請紅部長跟我們的城市上代理署長還有我們的勞動福祉退休師的謝倩倩市長好有請紅部長代理署長還有市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3541.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3546.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
想問部長,過年過節送禮是習俗嗎?你過年會送禮嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3554.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3579.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我必要的會但是我知道我很想問就是說我其實已經有請我的署內的同仁其實告訴大家說要避免那種為了好像向上管理的這種送禮的文化我認為應該要盡力的避免是部長11月26號上任就對於勞發署就已經宣布取消送禮文化跟挑戰我們的勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3581.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3593.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
內部相互送禮向上管理的那個文官文化那當然近日外界也不斷質疑就是就業基金的一個用途可是本席瞭解勞動部過往送禮也會使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3594.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3615.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
就安基金其中很大量的數量事實上是用來採購身心障礙者庇護工廠的產品因為我一直很關心我們的身障朋友們他們要在這個庇護工廠工作才有得到自己所需也能夠才可以建構他的未來所以對於身心障礙者庇護性就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3617.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3619.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
公務及基金預算：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務． |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3636.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3652.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
就按基金的支出你怎麼權衡?這兩件事情我們都要兼顧的所以不必要的送禮我們要避免第二個事情是那我們部內接下來如果有採購禮盒的需求的話我已經要指示下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3653.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3682.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
一定是要以庇護工廠的商品為優先那這部分是當然對於勞動部我們所屬的這些庇護工廠其實大力的支持甚至不只是產品的採購或他們商品的採購我們也希望其實怎麼樣來協助他們更大力的做行銷包括有很多他們可能在行銷計畫的界面上面我們怎麼更大力的支持讓這些庇護工廠本身有能力有更多的餘裕然後可以照顧更多我們這裡面需要照顧的一些身心障礙的朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3683.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3692.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我覺得這個事情它不是權衡的問題這事情是我們必須兼顧的事情對謝謝部長因為我真的就是要幫這些身心障礙者朋友講話因為我來自社福 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3695.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3712.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那接下來當然你要推動庇護性就業支持庇護工廠一直是我們的發展署的施政重點之一可本期發現勞動力發展署身心障礙者就業支援網裡面對庇護工廠的推廣我們覺得實在是不及格為什麼這樣講只有用一個頁面去推廣庇護工廠的產品資訊而且視覺非常單調連產品的圖片都沒有也看不到價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3722.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3723.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
公務及基金預算及重建中心114年度中心114年度中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3742.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3755.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
跟委員報告對不起我沒有看過農業部的相關網站但是從剛剛委員所出示的這個一面確實還有在這個加強經濟的一個空間這個我們會持續來改善希望你們要做因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3757.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3780.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
不是只有你們就案基金來做而已,那我覺得因為還有外界也希望他們甚至更多政府部門可以來採買我們的身心障礙者屁股工廠所做出來的產品。 這個跟林委員報告這部分我們會來用更不管是用活潑更多元甚至更有效的方式來協助屁股工廠的行銷甚至我自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3781.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3800.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我都願意來自己親身來做這些相關的工作。那這部分我們會非常非常重視。那如果林委員這邊有更多的建議也希望你不吝可以提供給我們更多的建議好不好。 好謝謝部長。因為我們覺得讓弱勢者得到就業機會他才能夠去照顧他的家庭或他家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3801.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3827.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
也因為這個孩子能夠自立的話才能夠安定下來也能夠得到一頓溫飽所以優化網頁才能有效讓更多的網友們或民眾一看到庇護工廠的產品到底有哪些好所以不是只有久安基金說來買這個我覺得要花在支持庇護性就業跟工廠裡面所以本期要求勞動部是不是在三個月內研議出優化庇護工廠產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3828.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3832.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
販售的網站的期程,我不知道部長同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3832.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3852.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我其實是覺得時間可以更短。 那太好了。因為這真的是對他們來講是非常重要的。 是。 那再想問今年7月本院就通過了勞動基準法第54條的修正規定勞工年屆65歲的時候可以跟僱主協商延緩的那個退休 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3853.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3879.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那法律公布之後可是勞工普遍有比較高的期待但同時又憂心修法後看得到吃不到所以想問如何有效的透過這樣的協商達到延緩退休的效果更是極為關鍵修法是為了改變現狀不要讓勞工空歡喜一場所以想問那個謝市長還有署長說明一下怎麼樣有效促進協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3881.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3908.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我來說明一下是感謝委員關心這個議題這也是這次修法之後我們希望讓有意願留在職場上勞工能夠續留職場也讓僱主能夠讓高齡勞工續留職場但是呢剛剛就是委員關心的部分就是因為這是要勞資雙方去協商那我們會嚴定一個相關協商就是勞資雙方協商延後退休年齡的一個指導的原則或指引這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3909.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3934.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
可是我們因為擔心為什麼我們辦公室有收到這樣如果經協商延緩退休條件是勞工工時不變工作不變可是工資下降怎麼辦我們會在協商指引上面明定如果他延商就是延後退休的年齡但是他的工作條件工作內容都不改變都不改變的話他其實勞動條件是不能夠變更的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3935.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3938.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
市長你也一直強調中高齡者跟高齡者就業促進法第12條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3941.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3967.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
禁止就業歧視不可違法可是法不入家門你怎麼去叫雇主遵守?雇主又不遵守的話那勞工摸摸鼻子是不是就只能接受不利的條件嗎?當然依照中高齡就業專法裡面所提到的如果剛剛我有擔心或勞工朋友有擔心他其實受到了一個年齡的歧視這樣部分的話他可以向縣市政府去申訴的對申訴最後就罰錢可是他工作可能也就是會好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3968.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3985.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
跟勞動部人說明當然現在我們相關的業務單位接下來會把這個協商的參考指引給訂出來目前可能會在兩個月內把它訂出來但我其實也要求同仁我們不只是把指引訂出來我們要站在協助勞工的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3986.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4006.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以不是說今天這個指引定出來就是只請勞工自己去協商我認為勞動部我們要站在協助勞工的立場怎麼樣替勞工爭取更大更好的條件的這個立場來去推動這件事情我其實已經有跟業務的同仁也謝謝部長博德的話你現在有法可是申訴結果結果有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4007.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4032.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
只罰了僱主結果勞工反而失去工作可是這協商的條件對他們來講真的是很不利所以也希望因為就業市場有時候難免有不可避免的流動性那除了要追求穩定就業政府真的有有義務有責任去找到就業機會開創在就業市場特別是要主動的去做那個就業的一個服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4033.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4060.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
就像你們的發展署的15%的銀髮人才的服務據點他是主動找廠商這我上次質詢的時候就有講過這個方式非常的好找那個求職者並做媒合的做法應該就擴大到全國的368個鄉鎮因為今天分屬的優勢就是跟縣市政府的就業服務中心事實上是比較容易事實上是跟民眾有所接觸到那你 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4061.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4077.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
優遇的事項是約間111跟104大概都是網站的可是到底就業的機會在哪裡有沒有去主動去找所以想問我們的代理署長中高齡及高齡者的就業促進計畫當中113年訂定的工作機會發展計畫全國要開發36850個職缺請問到目前為止開發了多少職缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4088.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4104.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
跟委員報告因為開發職缺的工作是持續不斷進行的那我們也認為中高齡朋友他在就業上有一個所謂的社區性跟地域性的這部分那我也想問說這個職缺目前媒合了多少人數如果這些職缺如果不是符合他們的狀態的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4106.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4134.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
開發的這個有沒有有可能是沒辦法所以我們對於中高齡朋友的一個工作機會一直強調的就是說能夠盡量兼顧他們在這個家庭的一個生活需求跟自己未來之下發展需求所以朝向彈性化跟部分工時這樣子一個多元的一個就業機會一直是我們努力的目標所以一直以來我覺得政府就業服務的那個留任率都很有問題就是說你要靠獎助金去支撐那在雇用獎助金到期後 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4135.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4150.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
會不會能留在這個職務上超過一年的人數有多少人?我們目前的僱用講座是鼓勵僱用這些中高齡或特定對象朋友。那僱用的期程是12個月為補助的一個期限。所以那結束之後呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4150.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4153.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
結束之後繼續留用的大概在6到7成之間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4154.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4170.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那這個是有很精準的統計數據嗎?所以是不是110年這個充雇用獎助金到期後的那個留任率是不是希望還是要有一些統計數據讓我們更精準的去了解?我們不再提供給委員。那最後就是我一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4171.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4194.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
用辦公室都收到這樣子的一個陳情那前面也兩三次都在質詢說你們鼓勵持續就業還有再就業可是有沒有好好的面對到中高齡被逼退假優退的一個社會問題因為畢竟到一個主管職缺的時候他通常薪水比較高那我升級我讓年輕的年輕一點的上來我薪水用的比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4194.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4195.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
公務及基金預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4214.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4235.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
勞工只能吞下來,真的拿到,然後被退之後後來又請用比較低薪來邀請你來工作。 所以想問勞動部對這些人數、性別、年齡區間的掌握程度是什麼?還有這些人退休前的薪資待遇呢,還有職銜退休後是不是同一個雇主回聘的狀況,你們有掌握嗎?那個跟文說明喔,這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4242.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4271.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們勞動部就相關的法規我們是是絕對是不允許隨便的資遣的啦他不是資遣他有時候用優退的方式逼著你退對那那我想我們確實在勞資這個整體協商的過程裡面常常勞工會覺得是比較相對比較弱勢的所以這也是為什麼我們要用這些相關的包括是用指引等等的方式來對勞工他在整個協商的過程裡面怎麼讓他其實可以跟資方協商的過程裡面可以更 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4272.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4286.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
更得到更多的支持。那在細節的部分我請那個。各位報告,員工在優退的方案是員工他要自主決定。僱主不可能用任何理由去強迫一個員工接受一個優退的方案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4289.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4315.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
都這樣講可是實際上我們真的辦公室就收到這樣就是你用優退比較高於可是也在職場當中用某種形態逼著他要退之後他退出之後他很難再找到工作所以我們自己在看數據也是這樣啊就是我們自己到60歲那個勞參率跟其他國家比也是比較低很多時候有沒有真的去了解真實的狀況那些填的那表單講優退的到底是不是真實的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4316.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4338.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
因為我覺得那個我覺得可以請你把你遇到相關的案件的狀況其實那提供給我們那我們來看按照這些個案的狀況裡面哪些部分我們可以再做多做協助好不好?部長也要講齁對我先接到單一的幾些個案可是要講齁單一個可以擴及到那如果說有些人就像 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4339.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4361.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
指導大臨如果不敢去申訴的最後還是你還是不會得到訊息那這次事實上是密通事件才會讓更多人跳出來那一樣的就是說這件事情可不可以勞動部也要去想怎麼去瞭解到這樣子或者是有沒有一些申訴的管道不要認為優退就是好事可是實際上他才50歲或55歲就被逼退了這部分我們會來檢討麻煩部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4365.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4373.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
謝謝林偉群委員的發言。也謝謝勞動部各級主管的詢答、回答。下一位我們請陳建惠委員發言。主席、委員還有各位官員大家好。想請洪部長。有請洪部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4388.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4408.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
部長請問你有聽聞：早安你有聽聞今天包含桃園市總產業總工會還有很多勞團要聯合起來絕食100個小時嗎?有我有在我有看到相關的訊息那你也知道他們有針對三大議題要請您回應嗎?是我在在他們的資訊裡面有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4409.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4424.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
全國的勞工已經氣炸了對於許明春對於何佩珊對於謝怡榮無比的憤怒因為你們本該是捍衛全國勞工的勞動部結果最近是揮霍公堂被看破手腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4424.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4453.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以他們有三個要回應的第一個是全面檢討基金的用途包括過相關部會如實的揭露第二個是強化基金審查委員會成員的專業度並且有第三方建立真正外部監督的機制還有第三對於勞動部長久以來遲遲沒有回應的重大勞動議題比如說增加國定假日等等希望藉由絕食讓你聽到他們的聲音你現在初步有想要利用這樣子的場合回應嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4455.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4468.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
其實這裡面幾個訴求那尤其我們看到針對救安基金的部分其實我們上週其實就已經開始非常非常密切的在檢討了那甚至也開始邀請一些外部有相關專業的專家來給我們建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4471.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4493.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那我們目前我自己也認為就將救安基金整體的管理要朝向更監理化的方向來做檢討跟調整那我自己也認為現在的整個救安軍管理的機制確實是有調整的空間所以當也提到說包括像現在救安基金的收支管理辦法其實也在整體檢討的範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4496.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4509.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以您會到現場回應還是你在這邊回應或是等一下跟媒體朋友做回應我覺得沒有其實對我們來說這些事情我們就是要努力大力的往前做把事情做出來才是最好的回應的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4510.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4522.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好那再來我們就看一下齁你的這個救安基金現在是為什麼大家會非常的生氣我們先看左邊的這個圖你看一下勞動部從111年112年113年我已經幫你整理出來了我們看到這個勞動部粉專經營管理網路行銷還有文宣媒體通路採購案簡單來說就是大內宣大外宣 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4538.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4563.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
一百一十一年從救安基金出了二十萬然後一百八十六萬好零零總總的我先幫你加起來因為這些項目連續三年都有全部加起來是一億兩千五百四十四萬六四八零元可能演唱會也包含在裡面因為是媒體通路採購案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4564.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4583.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
比起你右邊這個真的是令人很心寒啊右邊是你的公務預算針對勞動條件及就業平等業務工作計畫的預算也只編了9714萬那做這些媒體宣傳粉專大外宣就花了一億兩千五百萬捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4584.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4588.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
你覺得這樣子的做法正確嗎?你這個救安基金顧名思義就是要為了幫助國人就業創造國人的就業機會結果被部長挪用去做媒體宣傳的採購費 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4597.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4600.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4623.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4641.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
大外宣或大內宣,我覺得,我不覺得,因為真的還是有政策推廣,讓大家能夠知道我們現在政策跟資源編列到哪裡,可以怎麼讓大家得到需求的部分,這部分我要先說明。但是你是從111年到113年逐年不斷的上升喔。對,所以。你看從3000多萬3812到最後是4500萬欸。是,所以我要說明是就像這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4648.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4667.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以你OK你覺得這些東西宣傳很有必要性但是你也該拿出你實際上對於就業安定有什麼指標是所以所以我我再補充一點是說但是對於這裡面有些宣傳的形式是不是有讓外界覺得觀感不佳的地方這當然我們現在正在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4668.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4690.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以我的意思是說這整筆所謂宣傳的基金費我覺得不宜所有就是說它就是叫做大外宣大內宣我覺得不宜還是有必要性可是就裡面的項目的形式該檢討的部分我們現在也正在檢討中好那這件事情最荒謬就是我去查閱了您擔任第10屆立法委員的時候整整8個會期都在這邊衛黃委員會是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4692.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4712.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
也就是編列這些預算的時候許民春部長在編列這些預算的時候你就在這邊擔任監督者的角色喔當了八個會期喔你那個時候就沒有監督好或者是你那個時候覺得OK這些都很合理結果現在呢你還要回來抓漏欸你不覺得這整件事很荒謬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4714.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4733.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
跟成員說明我當然我現在是在勞動部長的角色來去處理我該面對該解決的問題所以我現在很清楚知道我在這個時間點上我的責任 所以你的意思是說你以前沒有抓出來你以前八個會期都沒有看出來但是你現在看出來了你是這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4735.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4742.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我覺得也不是這樣去引申的但我能說我現在是一個勞動部長的角色我就必須在我這個角色上面做好我現在必須面對問題的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4744.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4770.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以你現在覺得你當時可能不夠嚴謹沒有看出這些預算的貓膩我覺得也不是這樣衍生的啦那我覺得關於監督的部分我自己也很希望包括跟國會我們一起來做合作那甚至接下來可能會有更多陸陸續續的資訊然後釋放出來就像我剛才說的讓管理的機制更監理化甚至某些部分資訊該必要的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4771.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4794.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
本席只是想告訴你看到這樣子的預算一邊是做媒體宣傳粉專1億2500萬一邊是認真的公務預算做勞動條件就業評等9714萬如果你把這些1.2億的血汗錢拿去提升不管是勞檢員的福利培訓或是減少你們非典型大戶勞動部聘任非典型員工不是很好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4797.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4817.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個就是關於勞檢員的工作跟福利我們現在其實也來看怎麼樣來重新檢視那怎麼樣該補充的該把它補上但是我覺得這兩件事不見得是直接的相關只要在這一筆預算上面有哪些項目真的有不妥的地方全國人民都在等你對救安基金的檢討等你 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4818.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4832.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
當立委的時候通過的這些救安基金現在你要來檢討他大家都在看你要怎麼檢討再來下一個想問今年已經3月5月7月8月分別從第5次會議進展到第8次會議對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4834.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4846.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
外送工會跟外送平台業者以及勞動部三方對於還沒有訂定外送員專法以前的各項爭議問題的解決機制但是遲遲之前是每兩個月就會開一次會但第8次至今過了4個月遲遲都沒有再召開第9次會議你知道為什麼嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4857.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4883.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就我所知12月中應該就會召開下一次第9次的會議了那這一次當然大家現在針對包括外送員的報酬包括停權包括定型化契約等等的議題都是現在大家最關注的議題那我也要求這個12月就應該盡速召開我知道您也蠻重視這樣子的議題因為第8次之前都是部內的司長出席那您會有意願出席第9次的會議來相挺外送員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4884.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4903.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
其實如果需要的狀況下其實我都不排斥可是我說類似在這平台重點是我覺得這裡面可能不是只是說挺或不挺的問題我們當然要站在外送員的勞動權益的角度出發但因為這涉及到不同的利害相關其實重點還是在溝通協調上的工作所以他們第8次到第9次其實有一個很大的爭議就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4905.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4906.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
經濟補償方案嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4906.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4908.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個你也都很熟知嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4908.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4914.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以你有覺得在溝通協調的方式您現在有什麼有效的解方可以提出來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4914.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4923.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
剛剛陳委員講到的這個議題補償的方案的部分其實會是在第9次的會議平台會議裡面就會來處理這個問題。 所以您會有意願想要自己出席嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4923.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4925.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我來跟業務單位討論一下好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4925.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4932.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
但我是說勞動部整體來說對外送員的勞動權利的支持的立場這是我們很清楚的方向。 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4933.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4961.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好那我們就期待你的第9次會議再來中華電信近年來當然是非常的賺錢他也是這個交通部轉民營化的事業單位中央政府也是最大的股東剛剛我有聽您的業務報告您第7點第8點都講得非常好啊你要做這個勞資雙方協商的推手啊建立這個勞資雙方的平台等等結果您也知道現在中華電信的工會正在夜宿他們的總部嗎?是的當然嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4962.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4989.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以我想請教部長的問題如果中華電信員工的訴求沒有太過分您有沒有什麼積極的舉動想要應援他們支持他們我其實因為那天他們的業術這個新聞開始出來後其實就已經跟業務單位說了當然現在他們可能會開始進行一些勞資方面的協商那哪些部分是勞動部可以協助我說我們當然需要踩在 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4990.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4994.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
對阿因為你剛剛的報告寫得很清楚阿你說強化勞資協商能力這是勞動部的關鍵功能輔導及獎勵勞資雙方協商輔導獎勵勞資雙方簽訂團體協約落實勞資會議制度迅速有效勞資爭議處理這都是你剛剛講的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5009.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5031.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以我說這個事情我們願意跟交通部來討論啦那我們的立場當然是當然是會站在怎麼樣更大程度能夠協助工會跟勞工的角度作為我們表達想法的出發點所以可能有一些工會的同仁現在正在看電視您也會扮演這個與陳士凱部長溝通的角色嗎就是如果需要的話我們當然把當然需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5034.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5058.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我現在說的意思是說那個我現在意思是說其實我都跟我朋友同仁說我們不會說現在就是一個勞資協商讓他們自己去協商在這個協商的過程裡面哪些事情是勞動部可以協助的我們就應該來協助我剛已經念給你聽了您會做好吧您剛講的這些您的關鍵功能今天報告列了四五項是 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5059.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5074.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們希望盡力的做好啦但因為這確實涉及到不同的利害相關方之間的事情所以我們會在我們能夠扮演的角色上面盡力的協助所以有機會的話您會願意過去中華電信公會那邊為他們打氣嗎我們會盡力的來協助啦好謝謝對好謝謝好謝謝陳金輝委員的發言謝謝洪部長下一位我們請邱正軍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5095.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5099.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
主席好。一樣有請我們洪部長。請洪部長。謝謝邱委員。部長好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5107.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5128.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那個我看了一下我們那個勞動部在11月有宣布對親身公務員追封勞動獎章那會爭取因公傷亡的這個撫恤補償但是上個星期權序不確鎖他們還沒收到勞動部的這個文件這是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5130.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5158.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
當然因為我們現在當然在重啟調查啦齁。那我們現在會把重啟調查裡面一些更多的事實的釐清在重啟調查的結果發布以後那該怎麼樣來幫這公務員徵取的部分我們都會盡力。根據我們那個公務人員退休這個之前撫恤法第52條齁那自殺身亡的比照病故或意外死亡認定所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由? |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5159.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5176.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
就是我們會先等這週的調查報告的內容出來以後那後續該幫這一位無信公務員爭取的我們都會盡力的來爭取所以你重啟調查了嗎對不對對現在你現在找到適合的法條了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5177.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5196.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
法條就是就是呃我們會先看出我們我想說我們會來把重啟調查的內容我們先向社會大眾來報告然後因為我不管要爭取什麼東西都還是要基於這一位無性公務員在生前他經歷的什麼他遇到了什麼所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5197.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5201.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個調查報告的公布：所以你們是要把這個責任就給全序部去認定還是沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5201.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5220.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
不是不是不是 這不是全序部去認定程序部當然是這個輔敘的主管的機關但我們會等調查報告出來以後像社會報告以後我們會拿著這些內容來盡力的幫無性公務員爭取好了因為病故或者是意外死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5221.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5245.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
或者是因公死亡復續金額差非常的多那勞動部竟然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員來爭取我希望你們說到要做到好不好當然那另外勞保年金你說不應該只有撥補嗎你也說不會砍年金但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼還有你的期程規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5248.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5260.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個跟邱委員說明其實現在勞保年金的水位今年應該有機會可以破一兆今年可以破一兆那撥補是維持水位的做法之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5261.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5280.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那也不會只有博古所以這幾這幾年的時間我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況其實也相當不錯那也包括關於納保或給付相關這些東西做法更精進也都有助於整個水會所以我的意思是說我們要做的事情第一個確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5282.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5302.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那對於維持基金水位的做法上面我們其實會有各種不同的做法。你剛剛有寫啦,有撥補投資嘛,強化納保還有給付審核。對。那在你上任之前這些都沒有做嗎?也不是沒有做啊,我現在能夠讓基金的水位到造源之前也有做嘛對不對?也是有的。可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損? |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5304.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5325.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
其實現在今年度我們蔡英文總統執政了8年她一直說要匱極意見那到現在也還是只有撥補那現在你上任你又說要匱極意見您去共事我們賴總統他選前也說他一定會解決退休金的問題所以這個部分你有什麼想法還是延續傳統的這樣複製貼上就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5328.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5337.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
跟文說明當然不是一次複製貼上我說撥補這部分我們會持續的辦理可是我們維持基金水位的方法不會只有撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5339.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5360.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
包括 檢討基金投資的收益 勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位 要貼近我們勞工的需求 那希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案 那你看到那個三千多名民眾上街頭還有工人要絕食100個小時等你給答案 這個部分你有什麼感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5362.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5390.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
第一個就是我們當然尊重公民社會裡面各種聲音的表達我覺得這樣啦然後我們也很重視重點是我想讓我一點時間說我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求尤其是關於霸凌的問題尤其是大家現在也很多提出關於救安基金運用的問題這都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來非常非常大力也花很多時間我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5391.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5415.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
他們會走上街頭我這樣看他們就是不接受你們的說法不接受你們的說法那你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣才會出來走上街頭我想大家都不願意看到這樣子也不願意去做這樣的事情還有包含絕食抗議那愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子就是重複同樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5416.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5445.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
一致在做還期待會有不同的結果這個就是我們愛因斯坦口中的瘋子那我希望勞動部不是他是口中的瘋子像我們會拿出不同的做法來尤其是關於像救安基金的檢討我們一定會拿我們期待我們期待勞動部當然期待紅部長上任之後趕快提出一個新的一個做法那另外我看到你們的預算裡面安排了明年9月要到大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5447.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5456.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5457.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5463.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算：一、邀請勞動部主管預算．僅公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5481.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5483.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
你們不怕過去被統戰﹖我會來跟業務單位來檢討相關這個﹖所以部長你覺得過去是對的嗎﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5494.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5514.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我們現在不是說我們把任何地方去做說一定對或錯重點是說這些計畫的編列跟經費的編列有沒有符合我們達到政策目的的需求其實檢視的重點是在這個地方但不一定說哪邊去什麼地方就一定怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5515.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5518.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我不會用這個角度看,對於我們推展業務的幫助。對於我們推展業務的幫助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5537.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5563.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們就是希望各種我這邊也不針對只針對中國而是各種出國的計畫它能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助我會非常非常看重這一點還有最後就是救安基金裡面你們很多東西寫得非常籠統就像固定資產無形資產這幾個項目你們分了四個地方編總共編了八億三千多萬這是要買什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5565.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5588.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這是要做什麼?就算基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元等於一個月要花一千八百萬元在這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段相關媒體通路宣傳製作脫波及刊登經費這樣不清不楚的內容你覺得這樣可以過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5590.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5616.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
跟委員報告這個兩億一千七百萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟這個外國人拼顧許可管理相關措施的一個相關的一個宣導的一個﹖可是你們去買東西都不用問價格或是製作影片還是圖檔還是數量多少拖撥哪些平台看到在哪裡﹖這個部分都會依照採購程序來處理﹖反正編下去花完就對了是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5617.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5634.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那個跟跟文說明還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下呃雖然並不是這樣吼呃確實其實在法案署這邊他們有很多政策需要政策跟法令需要讓外界接受到訊息的需求吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5635.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5657.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那但是針對這個相關的計畫編列裡面有沒有哪些它適不適當每個項目適不適當這部分當然我們也在我們會檢討好了你說因為你說過嘛就是說你要找外部人員來把關嘛是那你們2016年9月勞動部這個發展署就新聞發新聞稿說就案基金有外部監督機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5658.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5683.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
就按基金符合用途沒有復編促進國民就業為主沒有疑慮這之前就在做了所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人?關於外部的成員是一件事情但還有一個部分是在機制面我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題所以除了人以外還有機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5684.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5689.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好啦,你上次說過一個月要這個提解決方案嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5689.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5691.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
對。好,那我希望不要留以形式啦,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5691.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5698.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
對。好,謝謝部長,謝謝。好,謝謝邱委員的發言,謝謝部長。那我們下一位請廖偉祥委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5716.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5719.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
謝謝主席有請紅部長有請紅部長的好部長你好部長勞動部最新公佈了我國2023年的年總工時喔答 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5734.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5753.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
2020個小時為世界第二那全國更有25萬人的周公時大於60個小時整個台灣已經陷入極度的過勞可以說透過過勞讓世界看到台灣想請問一下部長你覺得造成這個事情的原因如何有沒有什麼應對的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5756.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5771.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
從勞動部的角度來說當然希望能夠協助勞工降低工時的負擔這當然是我們整體的目標那在做法上面原因是什麼你們有監討原因是什麼為什麼又比上一年多加了15個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5775.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5804.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
報告委員那有關我們的工時的那個平均數那是每一人的每年平均工時他含括了所謂的部分工時和全時勞工那在跟國際比較的時候我國的部分工時勞工佔比只有3%那像日本和韓國他的這個這個應該是說我們每一年你如果要第一個跟國家比跟國際比是一回事好國際比我們的數據已經很糟糕但是你跟自己比你今年也比去年再增加了所以還有什麼理由呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5806.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5816.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個今年的部分的話他其實是回到疫情前的狀況我們慢慢的復甦回來到疫情前的情況疫情的有沒有什麼應對方式現在有沒有什麼應對方式要讓他降下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5817.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5845.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那個跟文說明幾個部分其實我們現在都規劃在做第一個部分其實就是包括像過去我們其實大家都知道夠病的低薪的問題要怎麼讓低薪的問題能夠比較大克服這部分很重要的原因是在於我們我們知道其實會有一部分的勞工是因為他的薪水過低所以他必須透過加班的方式來增加他的收入所以包括我們現在現在在推動包括像是薪資的透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5845.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5862.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
也包括這幾年一直不斷調高的基本工資這部分都是希望能夠去讓低薪的問題能夠多一點你今年還會再調高基本工資嗎?這當然不是我現在這邊能夠說的事情可是我的意思說這幾年我們繼續再做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5863.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5889.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這是第一個部分第二個部分我們也希望能夠來建立勞資之間的協商機制或讓協商機制可以做得更好希望可以讓更多比方跟公會切團體協約因為團體協約其實就可以做到優於法規的這個合理公時的規範 老部長那個全國產業總公會的理事長有指出喔可以有相對應的這個政策比如說如果是積極減少公時的部分 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5889.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5912.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
包含鼓勵事辦7月週休3日國定假日法制化還有適用勞基法84之1條的責任制行業別重新檢討請問以上這些制度這個全國產業總共會理事長提出來的您支持嗎這裡面有幾個部分我覺得我們自己願意來參考來去做更大程度的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5913.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5937.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
然後有關於七天假的部分你過去是說立委任內說要反應給行政機關那現在你也當家了你現在說要繼續彙整那請問你現在還願意給勞工來減低過勞嗎有關於七天假的部分然後要去跟內政部溝通的部分我跟廖委員說明確實現在在國定假日相關的規範目前的相關的法規是主持在內政部下我想你也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5937.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5960.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
但是我們很願意來反映現在勞工朋友各界的聲音讓內政部知道也很願意 反映了嗎?當然我們也願意把這樣子相關的聲音我們自己很願意來跟內政部討論除了反映之外還有什麼積極作為可以推動這個 如果內政部或者大家要做跨部會討論的話我們也很願意跟內政部來討論你會強硬的要求嗎?這個 站在勞動部的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5966.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5986.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個涉及當然涉及到跨部會的職權的部分因為其實今天講到這個我們能做也有這個相關的對所以我們能夠做的當然是我們把相關勞工的聲音要具要確切的反映讓內政部知道所以我們部長現在能夠做的就是反映而已因為這個議題本身它涉及到跨部會的權責好沒關係部長請你好好的反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5987.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6007.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那根據就業服務法第55條規定申請家庭看護或是家事移工的時候若僱主為身心障礙者他還仍需繳納就業安定費那一般家庭是繳納2000塊那中低收入或低收入可以減免那這項規定其實也被身心障礙族群稱之為障礙稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6010.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6034.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
但是部長根據這個CRPD工業的精神跟障礙平權的觀點國家是有責任要去擬平障礙者跟健全者在生活各方面的落差那當國家沒有辦法提供這樣的支持的時候而障礙者還必須自力救濟聘請這個移工看護但還要被國家課徵所謂的障礙稅請問部長你認為這樣規定合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6037.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6060.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那個跟要人說明目前其實這個關於弱勢家庭的部分或中低收入的部分其實已經是免繳救援訂費那我們現在其實也要求在檢討是不是有擴大弱勢家庭的這個免繳的範疇其實我剛已經說了這個是RPD的公約的精神其實這個這個身心障礙者他自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6061.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6062.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
公務及基金預算及重建中心114年度預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6076.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6089.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
請問這樣不是國家製造增加他們的障礙嗎?那個跟廖長遠說明我自己我認為關於這個外籍看護工的家庭就案訂費的部分我認為是有開放討論跟檢討的空間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6091.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6111.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
只有開放討論跟檢討嗎?部長可以回去好好的研議嗎?當然我們當然我們會做我們會做各種情境的評估請問這樣子你有沒有什麼時程?好我簡單的講一下其實這個問題我之前也請教請教過何沛山部長那他是有給我正面的回應跟你一樣說要研議可是其實也不了了之後那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6113.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6127.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
因為就業服務法的第55條雖然規定僱主應向中央主管機關設置的就業安定基金專戶繳納就業安定費但法條中其實沒有具體明定具體的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6128.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6151.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以我想要請問部長這有沒有可能透過修正執法或行政函式的方式理論上可以減少或者是免除這個障礙者的繳納義務如果要調整當然在這個如果要調整的話當然是在執法裡面修訂就可以但我想重點是這個如果要調整的話它涉及到的幅度跟它的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6152.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6161.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
範圍,你也知道這並不小。 那我看你應該要進促啟動演繹,什麼時候可以給個具體的回應? |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6161.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6169.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們其實上週其實已經請發展署做一些相關的演繹和討論。 那請問部長你覺得大概多久的時間可以有具體的回應? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6174.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6200.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
三個月好嗎?三個月嗎?對。好,那我們期待三個月後部長可以盡速給這些身心障礙者一個我們確實在思考怎麼來降低關於這些這個外籍看護工、僱主他可能的負擔這部分我們在思考這件事情。好,那請部長三個月趕快給出一個正面的回應。那目前這個剛剛講到就是扯到就業安定費 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6201.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6216.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那這些費用最終就是進到就業安定基金嘛那成為基金的資金來源那這一次喔很大的風波也就是剛剛很多人都問到就業安定基金被不當挪用的問題喔其實我們也接到非常多的雇主的陳情他們覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6217.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6233.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
自己已經多花錢去繳了這個就業安定基金然後給政府結果政府來亂用所以他們非常的不滿意那我想要請您參考一下這張表格就業安定基金的這個媒體政策及業務宣導費那該項支出從111年的1.09億開始連年的成長到了114年預算編列達 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6242.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6256.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
二點一七億喔那將近成長了兩倍我想請問一下這樣成長的比例是不是過高如果這個金額成長了兩倍我是不是可以期待宣傳的效應應該要提升兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6257.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6283.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是跟委員報告過去這個部分的宣導費用主要是會大幅擴充的原因是因為我們在全國技能競賽的規模在過去兩年為了要擴大它的宣傳效果所以把它的規模做大了再一個就是因為今明年的11月那個亞洲技能競賽也要在臺灣所以這個部分除了辦理全國賽擴大之外這兩個占了多少比例然後然後跟你們成長的比例是差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6285.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6299.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這兩個部分所佔的比率我覺得你講不出來不要亂硬塞喔我想問一下這個成長比例你覺得跟臺灣GDP成長物價漲幅有關嗎我們在今年110我們在114年的時候我們的這個國際賽的競賽的宣傳項目是增加了5000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6309.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6328.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那跟之前比起來呢?在113年的時候是3800萬左右。所以你就是增加了1000多萬可是你整體增加了快5000萬。我跟你講目前救安基金喔你們爭議的部分喔也可以參考一下下面喔包含這個裝潢修辦公空間還有設備升級等等的各種還有垃圾清運網路行銷等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6340.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6369.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
針對救安基金應該是促進就業提升勞工福祉跟外國人聘僱等目的請問你覺得這些應用支應妥當嗎部長跟廖委員說明其實這裡面其實蠻多項目他看起來只比方說他可能像是一些行政費用但他可能是去因應包括這些比方說救福的站點或者是他其實相關的一些設備的維持其實有其實就像上次講的這個咖啡豆有增加到勞工福祉嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6370.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6398.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
然後還有非常多非常多相關的細節其實上次我也有跟您質詢過但是我並不認為這確實我並不認為這裡面每一項都適合用救安基金來支付所以我要跟委員說明的事情是我不會說這裡面每一個項目其實都是有問題的並不是這樣它確實有它在使用上面的目的但在項目的適合適宜性上面我的確認為有些部分其實不應該用救安基金來使用對所以其實金額上 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6398.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6401.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以其實就是救援基金被濫用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6401.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6402.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那是不是被濫用? |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6402.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6426.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
有檢討空間可是你也不願意正面回應說是不是被濫用好所以你認為是前朝的事那也不願意概括承受你現在覺得要檢討有檢討的空間那你上次也不願意針對這件事情就是濫用救援基金的這個責任去道歉我是覺得很遺憾但是我要講的事情是其實10年前的時候在前任部長潘世偉他離任的時候就有說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6428.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6434.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
就安基金就是勞動部的小金庫每期名為公卻以私利為目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6435.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6458.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那其實就是10年後要不是因為發生了這個霸凌的事件我想在沒有人監督的亂象之下只會加劇所以請問部長其實你剛剛都有說過要改革改革這樣的亂象是不是應該要把這些看似跟救安基金目的沾上邊的相關預算應該都編入公務預算中讓救安基金回歸他使用的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6463.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6486.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
對於某些的一些支出不一定一定是要用救安電基金而是能夠回到公務預算裡面這是我們也覺得該去努力的目標那針對救安基金的我我我我其實前面有有說過我們希望能夠讓他的管理更監理化對好那部長講到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6487.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6510.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以其實救安基金的爭議還有包含之前我上禮拜也提出過去有這個3000萬要補助高雄市政府辦活動然後根據會議記錄這筆補助是在他的前一年的11月23日臨時會議臨時動議的提案方式通過那隔年3月1號第105次會議才就業平等司去提案所需經費4000萬便列於提升勞工福祉項目當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6513.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6527.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
但是部長這個東西我想救援基金的疑慮已經很深了那目前能夠查閱的僅有這個會議記錄若非像我們這樣子去對跨年度的會議記錄去做對比根本沒有辦法追蹤相關的事宜而且審議委員會的過程沒有公開審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6530.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6556.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我認為基於這個就業基金長期被亂用不良紀錄是不是剛剛部長有說要更有這個這個審查在這個監審上面要更公開透明是不是應該要把審議會議的全程錄音錄影像立法院委員會一樣放在網站上供全國人民查閱共同監督請問部長是否支持六人就你剛才現在講的這個案例我就我知道後來高雄市政府其實已經有把這個計劃撤回沒錯我知道撤回 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6557.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6559.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以我們認為在機制上面包括事前的審查怎麼強化甚至事後計畫後的集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6583.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6594.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那也包括我們當然現在在檢討包括在收支管的辦法裏面部長我就問說部費的項目可不可以公開我覺得我覺得我們是可以做到更多我認為我們可以做到更多資訊的公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6595.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6614.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
更多但是包含我剛所這個具體的建議嗎錄影錄影的那個我們現在還在健保健保這個審議一樣我們我們現在還在做還在整體的檢討中但我自己認為我們是可以再做到更多的公開部長你打你講的話都是很不具體的回應啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6615.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6634.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以我只是講說這一件事情我也想全國公開這個跟國人同胞看這個其實應該是一個公開透明機制很很好的一個基本的要求可是我覺得部長可以正面回應我覺得可以做到更多的公開所以你可以比這更多對不對當然可以比現在更多的公開但是我現在意思是說因為我們現在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6639.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6666.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
錄影錄影的以下。 我現在說的我的意思是說因為我們真的現在正在檢討中所以關於這些細節的做法其實現在也在討論中。 好部長我就進一步追啦為什麼一定要這樣做我跟你說同樣的會議幾乎總有寫到如果辦理高雄市或是辦理這類的活動經費不足的話再以併決算的方式來辦理那也發現這就是救安基金動用上的常態啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6668.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6693.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
雖然做法上你覺得好像預算法有法源依據但其實這等同於削弱和閹割立法院的監督權就算我們再怎麼努力監督不管公務預算或是救安基金其實都是徒勞因為你們編列是一回事這個立法院的委員審查又是一回事但最終你們都說自行操之並決算處理那一套基本上就是想怎麼用怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6693.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6720.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這個做法每期名是彈性、因應可是事實上就是讓它不公開、不透明而且讓我們沒有辦法好好審查的一個原因那個跟那個人說沒有我們現在確實也看到在救安基金的收支管理辦法裡面其實有部分的項目我們要怎麼樣更嚴格的把關這部分部長我要跟你說救安基金濫用了這個所謂的併決算的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6722.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6742.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
蘭用了這個所謂並決算的方式你並決算就是編列等於是編列不死嘛等於是可能導致機關故意低估然後變日後來並決算那也缺乏所謂的透明度並決算的過程幾乎缺乏透明度不利於公眾監督所以為什麼我說你們在這個審查會議應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6745.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6766.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
讓這個錄音錄影的影像全部公開而且每一條明細應該要很詳細的交代否則你完全讓國人尤其是這些繳納就業安定基金的對於政府完全是沒有信心沒有信任他們不知道他們到底在繳這個安定基金是真的有照顧到老百姓提升到我們勞工的權益嗎還是只是部長或是我們部內的小金庫隨意亂花 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6771.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6796.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我以上講到這裏就是希望我剛剛的訴求就是是不是未來在這部分的審理應該是更加的可以把錄音錄影都公開上網那第一個我要表達的事情是我並不覺得有所謂病決算的狀況就一定叫做編列不實這之間並不是等價但是這是弊端這是弊端而且還有不夠公開透明但是如果有病決算的狀況我確實覺得應該盡量的減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6799.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6803.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6829.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6848.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
無論我們應該可以在資訊的揭露是跟公開上面說好那我希望一個月後您的這個機制的檢討我們也可以看到這樣子的一個決定謝謝謝謝謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言謝謝部長我們宣告在盧憲毅委員發言完畢後休息10分鐘下一位我們請王育敏委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6857.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6861.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
謝謝主席。我們是不是有請洪部長?有請洪部長。謝謝黃委員。洪部長,你知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議?知道。知道齁。那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6880.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6889.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
有針對救安基金的部分然後也有針對希望在一些跟勞動政策有關的一些議題對 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6892.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6912.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
講得模糊齁其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關喔勞工的訴求很清楚就是要恢復國定的7天假而且也希望提高加班費的費率我就問洪部長請問你對這兩個議題你是支持還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6914.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6915.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
對於國定假日的議題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6936.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6958.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
你贊不贊成恢復國定的7天假?贊成或反對就這樣就好。跟王美說明對於國定假日的議題確實這部分現在相關的法規的權責在內政部我們會把勞工的聲音要如實希望能夠不是勞工的聲音你勞動部要先有立場你到底支不支持恢復國定的7天假? |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6959.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6974.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
你回答不出來,不敢回答。我不是不敢回答。那你就回答,支持還是反對?這個我不是不敢回答。我現在說的事情是我們當然希望降低工時的負擔。在各種做法上面我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。部長你就是要來要去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6976.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6989.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
你不敢直接回答問題這個也是勞團已經發現你的問題就是你都沒有正面回答那陶總他就批評你們說在砍國定假日的時候勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6990.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7001.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
現在增加國定假日結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是說會給內政部我沒有說跟我沒有關係那你贊成還是反對總要有個立場吧黃部長勇敢一點這件事情涉及到跨部會的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7011.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7026.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來我的問題是作為一個勞工的大家長勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定7天假還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7028.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7049.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映...部長你就是不敢回答問題這個就是我看到現在如果我們換了一個紅部長上來標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的會為弱勢發聲的結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態第二個問題提高加班費的費率你贊成還是反對我覺得我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取所以是贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7058.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7080.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
為什麼贊成反對都回答不出來?紅部長你知道你這樣子會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎?你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起請聽勞工的心聲你站上了這個位置之後你可以決定你可以拍板你到底支不支持當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工再往前進往前推結果你現在在這樣的一個未還委員會回答模擬兩可不敢表達你的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7085.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7098.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎?還是你現在必須聽命行政院,必須聽命經濟部跟內政部,只要各部會部長他們反對,作為勞動部部長你只好跟著他們的步驟? |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7098.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7102.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這並不是聽命。第一個這並不是聽命。 那你要我主張? |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7102.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7104.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我們當然有一個方向上的期待。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7105.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7124.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
但是這裡面確實﹑確實這裡面如果它涉及到跨部會的權責的話我們當然是盡力來反映。部長、紅部長所有的協商都是你要先有立場你要有主張你才可以去跟人家談判。所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來盡力的來爭取。我可以說你贊成恢復國定7天假嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7129.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7136.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7148.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7155.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不是推給其他部會啊,部會大家都一樣的啊,所以你要有主張,當你站穩了你的立場跟主張之後,你才可以去跟其他的部會來談判來溝通。人家一問勞動部部長主張是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7164.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7182.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
沒有主張。 沒有主張當然就順著內政部部長的意見啊。 這個時候要講的第一件事情因為我們現在勞工工時過長如果你上任一樣提不出解方你不敢站在勞工的立場勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子結果你不敢去支持的話我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7184.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7193.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們臺灣的勞動力的總工時沒有最高還會更高你看到從114年到112年都還是在繼續成長第二件事情我要問你的關鍵態度勞保終究是會破產的問題不改革終究是會破產結果你上個禮拜你呼應了這個上一任的何佩珊的這個論點說撥補就是改革好 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7213.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7216.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
你贊成你說你贊成撥補就是改革那我就問紅部長既然撥補就是改革請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7224.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7227.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那是不是你支持讓最終責任入法? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7253.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7277.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
不管入法或不入法政府都會負最終的責任。你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子。現在的政策就是政府會來負最終支付的責任。因為現在的政府會換人會下台。我們現在的政策就是這樣。就必須入法全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法? |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7278.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7290.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7303.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7309.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
就案基金然後7支影片花200萬結果你的觀看次數慘不忍睹啊部長你有去看過這7支影片嗎?他的觀看次數每一支要花將近30萬結果他的觀看次數只有幾百人每一支都只有幾百人你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎?這樣子是有效益嗎?就案基金好好花隨便亂花 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7334.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7344.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這就是你們做事情的態度嗎?你們有檢討嗎?公務員報告這幾支片子包括一個正片的部分連同7支影片大概有7萬多次的目前的瀏覽率 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7345.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7365.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
是喔 是從哪邊看的?它的證片包括那個所謂的音樂會的那個部分還有加上七支影片的部分那七支影片的部分它你要把所有的資訊都給我我要好好的來解釋你們你們這個到底是怎麼樣就是濫用救安基金我們再把相關的資訊給王委員對 這個標案裡面我就讓部長看 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7369.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7394.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你這整個標案委外的這個金額是每一年都漲那你這個宣傳採購費用呢從106年開始到113年大家來看一下得標廠商得標廠商從108年開始就只有三家媒體通通都不會變動三立、民視、年代 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7396.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7411.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
從108年、109年、110年、111、112、113年全部無論其他有哪一些別家的媒體來投標一定是三立民事年代得標。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7412.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7435.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
哇 好巧喔 這個是不是要招標我們整個這個勞動部的宣傳採購費用還要有特定的政治立場這個如果你顏色不對的是中性的或者是偏藍色的或是你其他標榜你專業通通都沒有用啦就只有這三家會得標啦跟委員報告我們都是透過公開的採購程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7436.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7463.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
公開我現在就要求這幾年來這個標案評審是誰照標的過程請如實的揭露我要所有的社會大眾來評評理我們要讓那些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服到底你這連續幾年來是不是用的是同樣的評審然後那個評審的規則然後所有通通都應該揭露部長你贊成嗎我們通通都把它全面檢討如實揭露出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7465.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7491.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
跟委員報告,我們的評審人是外聘文,多元聘文。 我要部長回答。我覺得該揭露就揭露啊。 好,全部通通都揭露出來,攤在陽光下。一方面是我們看到這個救安基金被濫用,一方面呢,又是得標廠商,固定就是幾家媒體。 這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩?而且召集人、主持人是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7491.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7494.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個所有的通通攤在陽光下。 你們多久可以整理出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7495.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7518.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
可以提供給委員會?一個月。好,一個月我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長我就問你一件事情今天這些勞團在你勞動部前面就是在抗議其中一項就是救安基金要求你全面檢討要求你如實揭露請問你做得到嗎?這是現在我們正在做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7518.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7521.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
正在做事情好那就從這個標案開始這個媒體採購案開始我們要讓外界看到為什麼可以這樣子就是同樣都是同樣的媒體其他家來投標通通都不會得標這到底是為什麼我們要好好的揭露出來讓全國的民眾可以看 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7538.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7556.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
而立法院也應該要強化監督了。救安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了。所以接下來的預算審查大家都應該要全力的來把關。我們禁止這樣的一個救安基金被濫用到如此這般的程度。謝謝。謝謝。謝謝王玉敏委員的發言。謝謝部長。下一位我們請盧憲毅委員發言。對不起。圖全琦委員發言。不好意思。 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7573.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7576.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好,謝謝主席。請我們部長還有我們調評師的黃市長。請部長、市長。託人好。好,那我先請教一下我們黃市長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7587.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7606.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那剛剛因為剛好我有聽到我們王一鳴委員有詢問我們針對我們音樂會有辦的有弄的7支影片那當初是這7支影片是為了要擴大參與那剛剛黃市長有講那7支影片的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7607.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7631.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我們整場音樂會因為點擊率很高是整場音樂會有7萬多次但是這個7支其他的單支的點擊率都很差啦剛剛王一鳴委員有講針對其他7支影片點擊率都是幾百次最高的不過就是2000出一點那重點那個我們整場音樂會7萬多次所以黃市長是針對說整場音樂會7萬多次點擊率很高是針對這個整場音樂會對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7636.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7662.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
報告委員那是所有的連結起來總共是7萬多次這個是總計的部分那其實當天現場大概有2000多位的2000位左右的民眾是在參與的其實針對這部分那時候我們也很有興趣了解啦因為其他單支影片點擊率都很低那你們以為要這整場的音樂會後來我們也要求要 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7662.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7691.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
與你們要這個後台的點閱資料可是要了很久發現你們也都不願意提供那我們想了解這部分算是機密嗎?報告我們現在的話是這樣跟我原報告當天的現場是有2000位左右的民眾是參與的那當天的話我們也發布這個資料提供會有困難嗎?為什麼我們要這個資料要不到?那個相關的那個數據的部分的話我們目前從我們網頁上面找到的是這樣的一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7692.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7720.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們可以掉這個每個月的觸及率嗎?因為我們發現其實有可能他整場因為是後來這個事件爆發大家才很有興趣上去看這個影片的並不是之前大家很有興趣看欸而是這個事件爆發這個點閱率才高所以我們才說要求掉這個每個月的觸及率可是為什麼一直這個觸及率我想了解一下這是檢察官講的偵查不公開的部分嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7722.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7747.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這個部分的話我們來回去再跟我們的那個資訊單位來去做一下確認是不是可以往前面找一下這個數據對請提供一下因為我們真的很懷疑喔因為之前你說有一些核銷的案件喔因為帳目的問題檢察官在調查偵查不公開可是我相信這個應該不在檢察官的偵查範圍內我相信這應該不是機密對我覺得這部分可以公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7748.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7764.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
好那請我們盡快提供喔因為我們很有興趣因為我們一直看這個單字的影片點閱率就很低啊那我相信是不是因為大家針對這事件爆發之後才對這個音樂會很有興趣應該是最近才爆量的喔那請把這個數據提供給我這個可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7766.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7786.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好那還有黃市長那時候我們說這個音樂會籌辦跟簽合你說都有正常的流程正式的簽合流程所以基本上應該我們主管部長這些都有簽合嘛所以我們說這個演唱會是不是許民春演唱會自己簽合然後高歌納稅人買單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7789.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7814.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
報告委員那個案子是我們我們調評室這邊來簽合的那整個案件來講的話就是為了要去做宣導那個性別工作平等法的這個相關的規定並沒有所謂說為了要開個人對沒關係啦我的意思說你那時候有講嘛這是都是個正式公文都有簽合的流程都有完備嘛對不對所以基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7815.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7841.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個部長一定也有簽合啊你調評師送上去部長一定有簽合嘛所以我們才說這是許民春演唱會自己核准然後高歌納稅人買單啦而且你看一下他現場有唱三首歌喔姑女的願望純情青春夢我的心裡只有你沒有他然後我們也看一下這歌詞我想我的心裡只有你沒有他這跟我們這個性別工作平等不知道到底有沒有什麼關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7842.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7844.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那這些歌單這些規劃是調評室規劃部長上去唱的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7849.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7872.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
這個部分的話我們有跟製作單位共同來討論那製作單位的話在安排上面我們有討論到說後面是用一個呃帶帶進來這樣的一個演唱然後再來做宣導能夠把整個宣導的部分的話做的稍微活一點大概好所以你們那時候就有規劃嗎可是我們去了解有我們這個節目企劃整個流程哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7874.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7886.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個從熊熊音樂演唱四季紅安平追想曲到吉月二重奏然後中場休息我們看整個企劃整個流程並沒有許部長唱歌這個流程啊企劃書也沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7887.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
7902.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這個是我們在設計上面包括後來的節目單實際上我們有提供給委員那個節目單的裡面的部分的話我們並沒有把這部分擺上去那原因是我們大概跟製作單位有考慮到說後面要擺一個這個也是設計橋段的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
7904.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
7929.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
要給大家一個驚喜是嗎?一個彩蛋進來的那個情況下大家有一個啊嘩然這樣的一個情況所以我的意思是說你當初所有的企劃並沒有所以聽市長這樣講其實你們事前就有規劃只是企劃書裡面沒有對不對?對對對企劃書沒有嘛企劃書是後面的話在提報的時候當初在思考的部分我們在有去做一些修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
7930.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
7944.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以所以市長我是認為喔你們當初應該在企劃喔可能不敢把這個橋段放上去啦因為這企劃流程放上去我不知道大家的觀感是怎麼樣而且你你想想看這個整個音樂會他要唱歌也不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
7945.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
7969.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
共養阿公阿嬤那個前頭下去就點歌就會出來那個樂團他一定要事先排練他要唱哪些歌歌曲曲目絕對就是事先都排演的所以我不知道為什麼你們在前面整個企劃跟節目表完全都沒有然後後面不知道為什麼會安插進來可能你們自己也在規避吧好沒關係這個我相信了這大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
7970.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
7993.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
心裡有數啦那我們針對我請問一下部長師長這個音樂演唱會那個時候舉辦的時候是我們民國111年的9月3號那你知不知道我們疫情指揮中心全面鬆綁室內室外空間全程戴口罩鬆綁是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
7995.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8018.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
報告那個時候我們在辦理演唱會的時候有跟那個場地的衛武營那邊有接洽過那觀眾的都是戴著口罩的現場上去表演的部分的話他是可以在當時的疫情規定是可以不用戴口罩對但是我不知道當初我們為什麼勞動部堅持要去辦這個演唱會因為那個時候疫情這麼的嚴重我們到111年的12月1號才鬆綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8023.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8029.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那你們在9月3號辦,你知道9月3號那一天我們全國新冠人數確診人數有多少嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8032.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8056.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
沒有關係啦 這也不用考你啦我們查了一下喔那一天喔新冠確診還有34339結果你們去花了400萬去辦了這場演唱會我不知道當初你們的想法到底是怎麼樣子喔這我覺得部長針對這部分呢是不是給我們可以給我們一個調查報告因為從這之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8057.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8062.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
當初整個計畫書都沒有的東西中間也這樣子安插是不是故意規避這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8064.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8091.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那個跟突然報告吼第一個確實性工法其實我認為是一個非常在臺灣這個勞動的法制是一個非常非常重要的法規我自己覺得在做相關的紀念或者是政策的推廣我覺得這個事情我認為是OK的但確實在部分的呈現橋段上面適不適合對社會來說觀感好不好這部分我覺得是可以有檢討的空間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8092.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8110.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好,針對我們剛剛所提的幾個我們每個月的觸及率還有我們針對這企劃流程你們也說明一下當初為什麼刻意沒有去把它呈現出來還有為什麼會挑那天來辦這個沒關係你就再調查報告給我們說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8110.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8113.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
全國移工人數目前是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8139.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8163.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
應該是突破80萬人對 那部長知道突破80萬人其實在去年1月的時候只有72萬多人那到今年10月就突破了80萬人那尤其我們桃園市這個政府真的是全國最高那我們瞭解一下我們這個移工持續暴增的狀況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8165.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8193.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
可是我們感覺針對移工業務的訪查員跟諮詢人數這遠遠不足那我們勞發署針對這部分我們數百億的救救安基金補助地方政府做這個業務是不是補助的太少讓人數這嚴重不足謝謝突然的提醒這部分我們如果經費的話我覺得我們應該把這個部分經費上面要給我們訪查員更多一點支持好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8194.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8212.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那個跟委員報告有關我們對地方政府辦理移工的一個相關業務不管是訪查或是同意人員的相關的服務的人數我們是參考各個縣市政府他的移工的在台人數還有雇主家數以及仲介的家數他的規模如果變大我的那個輔導員的人數就跟著調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8213.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8231.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好,你看一下我們三個移工最多的直轄市新北、桃園、台中大概106年山都訪查員人數只有37位、34位、34位新北37、桃園34、台中34他的人均服務量到2400多人到2900多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8233.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8250.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
及後來雖然有增加可是我們這個補助訪查員跟諮詢服務人員的人數增加的速度比不上這個移工增加的速度像以桃園市為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8252.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8266.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
他從34個雖然增加到43個但是他人均服務量卻增加了又再增加了9.1%所以我們這個救安基金補助這個人力的速度遠遠落後我們各縣市移工增加的數量欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8268.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8288.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那個跟突然報告吼現在在今年12月目前定是16號會邀集各地方政府來檢討關於訪查員員額的數字那剛剛突然提醒的部分我會請這個部部內的同仁在檢討的時候其實應該要好好的這個回應來評論思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8289.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8317.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
對,我這邊也提醒部長尤其大家現在對救安基金的使用的地方大家都非常的關注那你像這個應該補助的我也提醒部長應該針對這一部分因為我們中央大開移工之門收了很多僱主的就業安定費大家對這個錢的使用都非常的關注所以針對這第一線的訪查人員跟移工諮詢服務人員我們真的要多增加你看我們移工諮詢服務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8319.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8338.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
桃園市的人均服務量他一個人要服務8700多人所以這我們覺得逃逸移工對於這部分我覺得我們要好好去關注因為我們覺得訪查員跟諮詢服務人員是逃逸移工的第一道防線那這部分真的部長要幫忙重視一下還有我們針對勞發署之前也爆發 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8343.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8357.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
八年的時間我覺得說應該勞發署的業務過於繁重工作的績效壓力真的很大而且我看洪部長也有公開承諾會向行政院來爭取這個原則是不是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8358.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8385.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
跟突然說明我們其實也有發現我其實也理解到目前勞發署在他整體的員額甚至在正式人員跟約用人員包括承攬之間的這個人數的比例我認為是不夠健康的這裡面當然都影響到在這個業務分工分配過程執行的過程裡面是比較容易出現風險的我有理解到這件事所以這部分當然我們也希望能夠跟行政院的人總來再做更多的爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8386.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8414.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以真的我們要為勞發署的這些同仁發聲他們真的應該尤其最近我看他們的業務真的暴漲單就我看我們的國會我們國會針對我們國會的服務人員只有一位勞發署對我們國會服務人員只有一位我們去查了一下他在108年前的編制是三個現在勞發署對於我們國會業務人員只有一個所以我覺得部長這部分幫我們關心了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8414.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8426.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
自己周邊的同仁多關心當然那我也希望這個霸凌事件能夠減低因為同仁的工作壓力真的太大了謝謝托偉恩的提醒那請部長來多幫忙謝謝謝謝托偉恩的發言謝謝部長那我們請盧憲義委員發言這是有請部長有請紅部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8450.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8450.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
入園郭文貴議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8464.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8480.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
呃應該都是200多億吧就你說你說水位還是流量還是存量就是大概他的流量流量的話應該是200多億大概210億就說就業服務法第24條他有規定就主管機關對下列自願就業的人員因訂定計劃齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8483.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8499.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
資歷促進期就業必要時的發起相關津貼和補助金已共有10個人類別,我們原住民大概在第4個。我想知道說第4個去年的話如果你們有做相關補貼的話大概金額是多少或者它的規模是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8508.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8523.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
跟委員報告原住民朋友目前有59萬人那他的整個勞動參與的狀況跟失業的狀況跟我們國人的水平其實大致差不多那這個部分我們在相關的經費的話我們都會核實那個依照需求來做調整變略 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8523.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8539.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
因為我並不知道實際的補助的狀況所以我想知道這10個這10個類別能不能在一個月之內給我相關的書面說明相關經費的分列如果有那個類別的部分我們會再補充給委員好謝謝不用一個月兩個禮拜兩個禮拜謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8541.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8562.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那就剛才大家都在說就基金的一些濫用的情形然後那我就針對這個正義就是在疫情補助的時候暴增到110年109年是70.6億110年的8.4億那你意思是說這個部分怎麼會是由勞動部這邊來支而不是衛福部對不起你說哪一個部分就正義的部分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8572.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8578.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
綜藝的部分。疫情補助會被質疑說變成疫情補助的一個小金庫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8581.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8603.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
一百零九年高達七十點六億那個跟路人說明喔如果他是針對因為疫情其實也影響到一些勞工就業的問題就影響到他的職場就業的狀況因為影響整體經濟情勢那如果有針對這個勞工就業或提升福祉相關議題的話確實雖然他是因為疫情而影響的但 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8603.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8623.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
但是我知道在我們在醫院服務的時候甚至是衛生所服務的時候那個衛福不在刪一些健保在刪一些預算的時候是毫不留情的在刪明明就付出了這些勞力可是這些有如果是這個是70.6有那麼多的話有沒有有沒有辦法去補足他之前被扣的這些錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8624.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8649.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
因為會覺得有點不公平我們明明也是在照顧我們這些需要的需要的病人可是呢我們被扣了這麼多可是這邊又補助這麼多啊到底是補助給誰如果他是針對這個促進國民就業或者是勞工福祉相關的這當然在這名目上面比較可以透過這個就救援基金來來支出但如果跟這個比較名目上面不相關那就比較困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8652.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8666.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們看到111年有那個所謂的女性勞動活動那大概綠色執政的縣市它的補助的金額跟國民黨執政的縣市有到10倍跟40倍的差距之多 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8669.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8675.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
高雄市有到3143萬新竹縣我不要講直辖市我們講屏東縣好了屏東縣是605萬彰化縣是22萬這個就將近差了40倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8681.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8697.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那個跟突然說明其實我自己覺得是可以整體來檢視這個就案基金補助給地方政府的狀況。 是因為你們沒有去推這個女性勞動價值活動還是只有在綠色執政的縣市才有推這個國民黨執政的縣市就沒有推這個活動嗎。 並不是並不是這樣請優待會說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8700.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8730.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
報告委員那一次的話我們訂定了一個計畫那給各縣市政府來自己提案那各縣市政府我們給他的大概有一個月多一點的時間讓他們提案那各縣市政府收回來的提案因為有的縣市政府他自己本身有量能在做有的縣市政府他已經當年上半年已經做過了所以他就沒有再繼續提案那我們是沒有開放式的沒有說限定什麼藍綠這樣子來去做案我是知道說只是因為這樣子這樣的別交的話我覺得差太多了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8730.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8749.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我還是覺得這方面比較高興的。 那還有就令人產業的安全促進計畫編了1140萬元那我想知道說我們原住民高風險比如說掉落的這些產業啊有沒有做相當的這個類別的一個基金的一個補助? |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8752.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8768.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
跟路人說明之所以這邊針對綠能產業是因為綠能產業其實裡面有一些比較新興的這個工作的樣態比方說像離岸風電或比方說因為也會有一些新能源或一些新的工作的情境所以補助的意思並不是指讀後 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8769.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8788.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
綠能產業並不是而是既有的產業的樣態目前已經有比較相對比較成熟的做法在協助但因為綠能產業會有一些比較是新的工作的樣態跟新的風險所以針對這些新的風工作樣態跟風險來有一個這個經費來去做到底怎麼樣去管理這個風險的研擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8789.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8803.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那我對洪部長有個建議就是說我們針對我們原住民就是比較高風險的這些職業也是我們目前國人勞工死亡最高的一個風險就是掉落的這個風險這個部分應該再多一點所謂的安定的就業基金好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8804.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8807.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
公務及基金預算．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8829.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
8844.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我看最新98年的時候就差了將近一萬塊一直到現在是差了一萬塊所以這個就暗地經濟能不能就他的補貼上面能不能做一個現實面的一個補助讓他的差距變少能不能做一些研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
8846.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
8866.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
第一個是那個論我非常能夠理解其實原住民遇到的就業情境甚至職場的風險其實可能確實是相對比較高的那這部分我們會請我可以請業務單位來檢討那怎麼樣特別考慮其實原住民常常這個所屬的工作環境可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
8867.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
8893.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
比其他的這個身份有更多的風險的部分怎麼樣把它考慮進去好不好對那還有一些歧視的問題齁那我們看我們現在的就算已經得到世界冠軍我們的中華隊齁還是還是有人習慣叫他們小黑那我說我的意思是說即使在職場上面會我們都會收到很多各樣形式的一個所謂的歧視你這方面有沒有做想法做一些改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
8896.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
8912.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這些其實如果按照剛剛羅委員講的話它直接就是涉及到這個如果是在職場發生的話直接涉及到就業歧視這直接涉及到就業歧視的部分是法規該怎麼樣規範其實甚至要裁罰的部分這個我們的立場是很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
8912.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
8914.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
公務及基金預算．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
8933.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
8958.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我們願意納入這個建議跟參考就在服務法裡面有規定所謂的不得對這些種類的一個歧視那你看一下這幾個有沒有缺的你認為有沒有缺的缺了哪一項其實裡面的項目是不少對我覺得重點是落實我努力看了一下大概缺身高體重 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
8960.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
8973.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務概況：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
8982.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9002.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
議員很像自己調查的結果不是霸凌可是我們實際收到的一個所謂的陳情他確實是一個霸凌所以希望我們勞動部這邊能夠去深刻的去了解去檢討這件事情的發生到現在因為這位護理人員還在家或病房那治安署這邊也有做一些調查也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9004.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9028.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
給我們一些回報就是說這些違反哪些規定他上面有一個蠻奇怪的說法就是三年內未重複違反三年內太久了而且最主要是這個人還在加護病房這個受害者還在加護病房所以我是希望這個三年內這個違反這件事情其實這個規定或者是說請他做改善的這個太輕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9029.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9047.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們現在那個如果我們這部分都在做處理我們其實應該是通知他一個月內要改善對而且屏東屏東農業才剛剛開幕沒有多久我們一個月改並不是三年他沒有所謂的以前的做比較他現在就是這個樣子所以希望他能夠立即改善是我們要求一個月內改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9048.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9069.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
還有一個就是遂時記憶的問題我們現在有16組那常常因為要請假的問題可能勞工原住民勞工不好意思跟老闆說我是原住民我要請那天法定的假給我所以你們很多有些預算是針對我們所謂的宣導的費用其實這個費用其實可以用來 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9069.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9070.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
公務及基金預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9088.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9115.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這部分我們願意來再特別宣導甚至主動宣導還有一個是沒有人提過就是說如果今天是嫁給原住民或是娶了原住民我今天我的內人另外一半要請原住民順時記憶架的時候我自己我是漢人我不是這個族群的我沒有這個我沒有這個架我能不能因為我的配偶是原住民而得到這樣的一個架我們就可以一起返鄉去參加這個記憶這個部分也請部長這邊去考慮一下好好謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9117.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9120.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
好,謝謝盧委員的發言,謝謝部長。那我們休息10分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9137.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9149.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算．並備審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9152.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9162.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算．及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9728.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9731.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們繼續開會。我們請下一位陳穎委員發言。好,謝謝主席。麻煩請勞動部長。有請紅部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9758.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9781.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
陳英文好。 部長好。民眾基金欠救援基金生財的器具要被查封。政府收到救援基金就淪為勞動部的小金庫。更成為各機關的提款機。勞動部想要怎麼花就怎麼花。相對對照起來看起來是真的還蠻諷刺的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9782.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9803.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那媒體最近就是不斷報導這個救安基金經費使用的情形當然就是說部長您個人也覺得說有部分是非常不恰當的那除了這個媒體報導出來以外請問您還會再繼續清查其他救安計畫的使用情形嗎跟委員說明我們現在正在檢討中 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9804.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9828.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
好就是會繼續持續不斷的往前進然後當然如果有發現其他不當用途的使用那身為勞動部長部長會主動對外說明還是以這個家醜不可外揚的心態選擇隱蔽如果如果有看到這個不法的具體的事證的話當然該送針封該送檢調的我們都不會遮蔽 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9829.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9846.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好謝謝喔那我相信就是部長對這個勞動部的業務已經開始在熟悉了解那有些事情喔其實這個文官甚至是機關首長要負很大的責任的例如說救安基金的計劃如果明目不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9847.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9867.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
不適當,那同時又執行得很沒有績效的話而且每年都在實施甚至是同一個組織或者團體拿到這些計劃我希望部長看到這些情形就麻煩你要特別注意了目前社會各界都是從這個名目上來看從計劃名稱就覺得很不應該可是還有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9875.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9892.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
是計劃名稱看起來很偉大但是實際上呢他是掛羊頭賣狗肉的那成果績效又不是很明確所以我今天的質詢要特別提醒部長就是對於這個部分也要了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9893.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9909.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我剛提到這些計畫的必要性那不應該執行的就要停止那也要拜託部長花一點時間去了解一下我舉例比如說職安署花了1億多元去做這個XR的那個防災模擬的教育訓練這預算其實框的還蠻高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9912.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9933.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那我們想要看這個細部的花費其實也是看不到所以這個部分也麻煩這個部長可以協助去好好瞭解一下那我相信以部長的聰明才智可以考上建中又可以考上台大是絕對可以看懂這些不恰當的這個計畫那想想說為什麼要這個樣子應該不是件難事 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9937.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9965.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那個跟陳委員說明其實就像你說的除了名目上面到底是不適宜在做檢討以外那當然績效是否這個績效是否有做到當然其實都應該是綜合考慮的範圍是那我接下來就是說我們要談一下制度面的問題就按基金管理會召開的頻率部長知道是多久開一次嗎每季 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9966.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9968.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
每季以後三個月一次喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9968.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9984.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
對那這些管理的規定是法律層級還是行政命令還是行政規則?他有母法是在救福法裡面那現在應該他也有所謂收支管理辦法所以他基本上他也是用行政命令的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9986.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10002.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
他一些項目的細則是定在那個收支管理辦法裡面。好那我想重點是救安基金管理會的委員是管理基金的用途還有這個審議那負責勞動力 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10007.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10018.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
政策與各行業的外籍人員的分配額度的這些評估等等,我們所謂的跨國勞動力政策協商諮詢小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10022.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10042.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
的這個成員我剛剛提了這兩個單位我想這兩個單位剛剛提的這個委員他們都是重要的一個裁判的角色那我就想要請教一下既然是重要的裁判角色那我請問說這兩個單位裡面的委員有沒有重疊的名單這個可能要有嗎後面的有點頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10051.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10070.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
有沒有重疊的名單?跟委員報告確實是有一部分因為他是從勞資政學各個領域來做好沒關係不要緊張重疊沒關係不重要吼好下面問題比較重要來這些委員可以申請救安基金下的這個計劃嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10074.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10098.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
完全都不用迴避嗎?跟委員報告我們的救安基金除了我們行政機關自己用也會補助地方政府還有透過採購或者是補助的程序來結合民間的力量來推動所以這個部分我們並沒有因為他是救安基金委員的所屬機關就把他排斥在我們的採購的一個這個投票廠商資格或者是補助的單位資格裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10099.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10126.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以我想因為我剛舉的例子是有求援兼裁判的嫌疑啦那如果部長剛剛你們的這個同仁也據實以告嘛那我沒有一定說是怎麼樣但是求援兼裁判這件事情大家就會有疑慮嘛那你沒有一定說就完全不行但是你如何在這個過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10128.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10149.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這個迴避這個我想這個是重要的事情大家會關心嗎我提出這樣子應該沒有錯吧委員的提醒我們我會很嚴肅的來參考好那再來這個委員可以去砍掉別人的計劃去成就自己的計劃嗎這樣是什麼樣的委員呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10156.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10178.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
跟委員報告,我們的委員他是依照我們所提報的一個相關的工作計畫或者是有臨時提案的話,針對那些提案來做審查。好,沒有關係,我今天吼,我覺得我相信我今天也聽到,不會聽到很滿意的解釋啦。那我就丟出我的質疑,也是提醒好不好。好,那 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10181.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10192.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
再來就是說我不太清楚兼任教授就是說沒有什麼課的兼任教授是不是可以來接你們的計畫這個我也丟出來給你們參考參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10203.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10232.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這個部分我們會一併留意。不過基本上我們不會讓一位委員在某一個計畫裡面同時又兼求援又兼裁判。這部分我會特別留意。 那你們就已經做了。好。來。那個我建議你們去調閱過去三個年度的歷次會議審查記錄。我想你會發現一次平均審多少計畫。一次會議的時間多久。部長我做這個非常重要的提醒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10233.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10261.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我再講一次一次平均審多少計劃一次的會議時間多久那這些計劃呢都是文官及主管或者是首長蓋章同意的然後資料內容都非常少甚至連續幾年內容都差不多然後呢就包括是一次審一個年度的計劃一次幾十個計劃不論是計劃審查還是成果的審查其實都已經被內部出審過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10263.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10284.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那提供出審意見其實也都提了啦所以請問這些委員他如何能夠看得懂聽得懂審得好那委員其實都是針對這些出審意見去做評論而已嘛那他們審的是出審意見而不是說計劃的實質內容跟實際的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10286.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10304.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
部長你同意我的說法嗎?那個跟陳委員報告其實現在我們在做基金管理相關的機制的檢討裡面我自己很清楚說我們在檢討的方向就是要讓這個基金管理的過程更具監理的性質 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10306.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10329.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
包括外部委員的角色包括監理的性質更明確包括計劃事前包括甚至事後當然一些細節我們還在討論之中但是現在委員做的一些提醒我們都會納入接下來的參考是我想部長我們對你是有很高的期待所以也不令於就是說把一些比較敏感的事情做一些提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10331.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10356.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
建議就是說部長應該要大刀闊斧去改變審查機制那有些問題其實也不能怪審查委員那因為有時候他們也是就是心有餘而力不足但是有些委員他真的就可以成為這個御用的委員因為他們平常都有拿你們勞動部跟發展署的這個還有以及安研所的計劃那審查的時候就會以這個專家學者的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10358.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10385.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這個不知道幾重要的是這個連計畫內容都不看他就直接成為這個護航者或者反對或者為了反對而反對的這些打手我講這個不是唬爛的欸真的真的就有人計畫看都不看的部長所以我想請教說您同意考慮修改救援基金的審查制度嗎並且要汰換這些不適任的委員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10385.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10408.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那個跟委員說明整體的救安基金的審查跟管理其實這整個都在我們現在在檢討的範圍內好這樣子很好我們很期待那你們的就業保險基金跟這個職財保護基金雖然金額沒有救安基金那麼多但是也有可能發生同樣的問題那重複性 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10411.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10437.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
沒績效、明目不對甚至連續幾年都給相同單位去辦理計劃的事實上這些我剛剛提到都應該要被檢討相關的主管跟首長也應該要對您負責才對所以也建議部長用檢視救安基金的角度也看看你們的這個救保基金還有這個職災保護基金可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10438.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10465.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那個其實相關的基金當然他們當然都是現在在依法審議跟執行了那當然如果有哪些部分真的明確有不妥的地方當然也可以請委員再提供給我們當然我剛剛就是也很好心的提醒就是同樣的角度去檢視這些基金因為這樣會比我們後面有其他委員把這個案例直接丟出來要來得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10466.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10490.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那另外就是說在上次我有質詢就是說為什麼不要恭喜部長那因為部長擔任的是一個救火隊的工作那現在看起來感覺好像是火源很多到處都是一個不小心可能就會把這個星星之火這個引發成宇宙大爆炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10491.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10509.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那我想這些會引起火災或爆炸的事件最重要的就是他可以被燒成材料那需要就是說部長將來有時間去了解去發現去解決所有的問題關鍵其實都在於那個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10511.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10536.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
人問題很大所以希望部長不僅可以有好的機要人員來協助那更可以希望也更能夠建立這個優秀的文官團隊然後來這個合作承擔勞動部的重責大任所以剛剛如同就是說部長剛剛同意了解各種基金是否有發現問題那希望就是說接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10537.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10560.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
後續的可以提供書面報告給本辦還有我們衛環委員會的同仁可以嗎好那個跟委員再補充我覺得除了人以外很重要的是機制就是我們還是必須從機制面去著手去面對問題跟解決問題對好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員的發言也是部長我們下一位請蘇清泉委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10579.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10585.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
謝謝主席我請部長還有我們勞動基金運用局書局長請部長跟局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10593.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10609.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
市委好部長齁我今天要問你兩個問題啦齁第一個問題是問比較大條的整個說什麼基金什麼歐北銀行什麼的那我都沒興趣啦齁那有很多人在問啊我現在要問的就是說你們勞動部下面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10611.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10630.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
新制勞工退休基金4兆5千多億。 嚇死人了。舊制勞工退休基金1兆零4百多億。 這兩個加起來就5.5兆了。還有勞工保險基金1兆零956億。 這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我有看到。 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10633.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10642.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
就業保險基金1723億、勞職災的保險基金365億、基建工資電廠193億。所以它不通通加起來是7兆5000多億。那你今年編450億又要委託這邊代操作,那我請問局長, |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10660.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10677.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個操作是你在handle嗎?你是用什麼委員會或是用什麼東東來操作?委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票那這個是我們每年度都會有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10680.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10700.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
每年都會有一個委託投資操作的一個招標案這樣那我們這個是採公開評選的方式我們有外部的委員然後有一定有相關的一個程序這樣所以有一個委員會在操作還是不是我們評選的時候有評選委員9位 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10703.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10709.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
明顯這些代操縱的監控公司：投信來投標的業者：這個有沒有弊端?如果有虧損誰要負責?然後裡面是所有的七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10728.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10751.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
不是,報告委員我們所經管的基金規模是7.5兆超過那我們的投資是全球多元佈局包括國內的市場、國外的市場、國內的股票、國際全球的股票市場然後還有債券這個是你們委託的這些債操作公司不是你們有自己在操作嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10752.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10773.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
有報告委員我們有國內的自營團隊我們有國外的自營團隊我們也有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作我看到的是國內跟國外差不多都占一半一半那最近像二五戰爭在投資俄羅斯那邊都卡死了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10775.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10778.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
是,報告委員我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位那主要是因為我們是全球佈局我們有很多的國外委託的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10795.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10822.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那國外的資產管理公司他們我們有一些設計是相對報酬所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標那他可能有一些被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的一個成分股所以我們是其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分那這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降因為我們也要求受託機構國際資產管理公司要能夠來積極處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10823.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10835.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我看俄羅斯那個是五、六十億台幣吧還是二點多美金嘛欸這有人消息給我耶主領給我耶我說我今天白天幫你問個清楚耶是是是啊對你你現在去外面啊我們台南國來的有的是什麼婦理啦什麼婦華投顧啦什麼富邦啦亂搞嘛內線交易嘛然後你們的錢去玩嘛一一一有沒有這回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10851.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10877.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
報告委員我們如果說我們受委託的頭信有違反契約的規定或者違反法令的規定我們都一定嚴懲而且我們過去最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及我們勞動基金的一個委託案那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的因為我們這個部分也會跟金管會很密切的一個合作如果有類似的情形發生你說洗澡多加上郵政儲金 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10880.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10894.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
五、四、五、五兆左右那加起來就是我們的國安基金還有一個公務人員的十幾兆捏不定十幾條捏你要講那個三、五百萬的講那個是在揮灑啦這但是恐怖啦這亂七八糟有必端嗎?那如果虧損什麼要有錢?虧損的國務賽是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10905.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10919.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那個書案當然這個我們拿這個基金來做投資當然這幾年賺錢當然我們不能說他絕對不會賠可是我覺得重點事情是說我自己也要求第一個是希望能夠專業操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10921.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10944.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
第一件事情是他的專業性要怎麼能夠提高第二件事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防避在防避的部分能夠做多加強的部分這也是我請我們基金應用局其實很重要在操作這是這麼龐大的資產最重要的原則啦所以郵政儲計那一塊你們沒有管嗎公保軍保的那個你們沒有管嗎那另外全局部有一個基金局對 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10945.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10970.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那在維護我們股市的安定國內的副盤這個你們是你們自己操作還是由我們也沒有副盤那個行政院下命令你們就開始沒有沒有我們就像剛剛部長所提到我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作對於委外的部分也同樣的要求我們自營團隊也是同樣的要求我們都是要秉持專業然後來進行相關的操作我們並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10971.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10980.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
像是那個護法頭顧有好幾個人被判4年啊判了10個月等等那是操作你們的2020年2020年是遠東百貨的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10988.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10994.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
二、審查中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務概況：一、審查中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11004.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11031.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們的基金運用局在相關的防避尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端我之前發生幾次弊端所以後來蘇局長也才到這個工作裡面來任職那我其實已經跟我們基金運用局說我們最重要的原則就是就是專業然後要防防防止弊端的發生這部分我們希望能夠做得更好這樣子但是這是最重要的原則許長你這幾年來一些一些那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11033.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11033.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
公務及基金預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11055.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11057.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
外匯存底現在差不多五千五千多億美金喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11068.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11083.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那美金帳帳他們都賺錢我們中央銀行是可以分的喔我們拿獎金的喔我們中央銀行以前是一月單月領單薪雙月領雙薪耶你知道嗎?我們不會去分這個我們是新任機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11095.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11101.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以沒分啦所以要怎麼給他們鼓勵啊如果賺錢的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11104.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11108.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11133.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11153.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11155.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11170.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
這是怎麼審查的?也要審一下給我聽一下嗎?都亂講啊。什麼一年多千萬也是勞動部操作的一部分,也是勞動部的業績一部分。大家都亂講一天。你是怎麼審的?13兆是怎麼算的?什麼時候要破產了?每天就在那裡勤洗勒索,奇怪欸。 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11179.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11195.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
是委員 公務員報告在講說那個潛藏負債的部分那潛藏負債的意思是說是把一百年後才會發現掉潛藏負債是說曾經加保的見保不會倒嘛 勞保也不會倒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11201.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11227.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
你這個潛藏負債你告訴我Key Point你告訴我13兆是怎麼算的啦?你不要把我們打到動作幼稚園欸就是說把那個被保險的年資跟投保薪資齁因為我們勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險嘛那採的是部分提存準備嘛所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11228.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11247.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那所以他會隨著被保險年制跟投保薪資增長而增加他的潛藏負債會增加那所以潛藏負債是未來可能會起伏的但是他不會一次一次才實現了所以他會在未來逐步支出而且如果沒有符合請你的條件他也不會來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11249.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11269.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍日本是幾倍我們都還好嘛我們的負債比例不剩也不是算我們整個國家23兆GDP的也不多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11269.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11285.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以這個遣償的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務基金的部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11286.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11314.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債是說這個如果一次性的這個暴衝性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端的狀況有可能的事嘛電報也常常話要倒要倒現在妹妹你可不可以不說 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11316.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11316.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
一套勞基法可以適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11328.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11329.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
有可能嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11329.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11329.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
一套的奧計劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11346.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11368.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些樣他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11370.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11376.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
衛生：不管現在也跟朱研醫師跟勞動部有計劃你組織是怎麼勞動全世界也沒人敢你怎麼算時間像我們主席那些年輕人總預算辦公室出賄了什麼就拚了那個要怎麼算所以這個要還是要考慮還是要檢討啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11389.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11411.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多我跟部長報告你有我排個那個考察我們到屏東去那個遠洋漁工比如說一條船是CT4的CT5的100多噸的那個裡面的空間那我們的船是這樣從東港開出去然後上面只有三個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11412.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11433.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
船長、大副、輪機長、其他移工、林、然後船就開到印尼,然後那些移工、印尼的移工就一個一個挑上來。上來可能10個、20個,我就處理了。那他們大一定都會重建嘛,吃喝拉扎所以都在船、都在那條船上嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11434.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11445.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
他住的地方跟那個船長住的地方差不多耶船長是在船長室裡面你下去我帶你去看他船長室是有鐵窗耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11448.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11449.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11468.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11468.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
公務及基金預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11488.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11510.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
這個不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別但是從勞動部的立場來說的話我們還是希望對勞動勞工只要是勞動者這個他基本的該保障的部分該保護的部分我們還是必須還是要盡力去做那當然啊不要對那些船東啦不然遠洋業者啦對那些船長喊打喊殺每天都是喊打喊殺動作很邪惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11515.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11536.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我還說勞基法的適用跟勞基法的目的還是對勞工最基本的保障其實去做一個規範性的要求但是我們當然知道說業別上面有不同可是他其實勞基法其實很多部分他其實照顧勞工這個工作權益的底線啦這樣子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11538.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11539.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
謝謝蘇委員的發言 謝謝部長我們下一位請陳培宇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11567.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11569.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
好謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11579.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11602.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好,部長早安,午安。部長辛苦了。我想要來轉換另外一個話題。我們從地埔就任到現在,我們一直在關心運動員的相關權益。那也許是部長比較不熟悉的,我們花一些時間跟部長討論。所以我在2023年的10月我就問了當時的陳建元院長, |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11603.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11607.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
國營事業的運動團隊如果不幫球員投保勞保會不會產生法規範的問題當時的陳建遠院長認為這個不應該我們當時有問了因為國營事業隸屬於財政部我們也問了財政部長莊翠雲部長他認為要進一步了解後來我們問了許明川部長那他認為國營事業應該擅盡部主的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11626.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11647.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
到了經濟部郭智慧部長因為在他自己的企業底下他其實也有企業球隊我們問他有沒有幫他的球隊運動員加保當然是有的而且他認為這是天經地義後來新任的部長何佩珊部長我們也問了她她說她承諾會進一步進行勞動檢查那現在部長您新上任過去在運動員這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11648.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11665.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我想問一下部長你認為國營事業運動團隊幫自己的球員加保勞保這件事情是不是天經地義的事情因為過去呢在我們積極的質詢之下過往台皮跟台電的態度是非常的消極他們說這是委任關係所以不需要幫他們投保勞保甚至呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11668.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11696.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
請他們自己去外面加保我們認為這非常的有問題到目前為止跟部長報告臺電到今年已經全數幫非正職求員換約加保勞保也就是說在勞動部的協助之下我猜勞動部應該有積極的協助臺電已經做了合乎法規範的事情可是臺皮到目前為止依然說這是委任關係我們認為這是規避雇主責任部長我想問一下你在這件事情上的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11697.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11720.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那個曾委員跟曾委員說明其實其實就從屬關係來說的話我們當然不希望有出現所謂的假委任真雇傭的狀況那再一點是確實對於國營事業我們其實也覺得國營事業其實是有更積極要去照顧旗下付出勞動的工作者的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11722.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11741.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那勞動部現在當然有這個勞動契約從屬性判斷檢核表那可以來供大家來做相關的認定那目前我們其實針對體育團體部分其實也已經有勞動檢查其實9月到11月幾次的蠻多次我的數據看到的是大概25家的勞動檢查那目前正在執行之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11741.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11763.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
所以關於這個台皮要不要幫求援保勞保的問題其實我想我們的態度是當然很希望國民社會要承擔起更多社會期待的責任好謝謝部長非常正向的回應所以我想後續的部分而且我非常開心聽到部長您說在過去這段時間其實有非常多勞動檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11763.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11767.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
一般我們要成立運動部我認為整個臺灣不管是行政機關或是民間企業對運動或是運動員相關權益的照顧更為重要當然對好這個部分我們會持續那也要拜託勞動部一起幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11781.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11797.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那接下來我們談一下關於勞動部在賴總統談的價值外交這件事情其實我們相關研究也想要跟部長提出相關的討論對於價值外交這件事情我們認為勞動部可以做以下的事情有時間有限我們就直接來說部長在現行的勞動部補助工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11799.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11819.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
強化國際及兩岸勞動交流的部分呢?勞動部現行的辦法如果是產業特殊的企業工會或是職業工會其實是沒有國際交流的補助我們覺得這比較可惜當然我們相信當時的法規範一定有其時空背景如果我們現在要修法可能有新的想像必須要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11820.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11839.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
去承擔這個可能性可是我們看到地方政府以台北市政府勞動局補助工會辦理國際交流活動的部分呢他又只限於工會的聯合組織所以呢看起來在國際交流這件事情上我們必須要說企業工會職業工會的國際交流可能被中央跟地方政府同時遺忘 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11840.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11860.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那我想要跟部長舉例一些例子到底什麼叫做企業工會跟職業工會部長像動漫企業企劃人員職業工會女子足球員職業工會臺大醫學院輻射醫院企業工會桃園市空服員職業工會我相信部長你一定都非常熟悉他們各自是企業工會也是非常特殊屬性的職業工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11861.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11870.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
而這些工會他們都有非常多的機會跟國際做交流可是卻不再相關法規範的補助辦法我們有沒有可能現在開啟一個新的討論來協助這些所謂企業工會職業工會我們做所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11876.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11890.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
專業性的交流然後呈現一種價值外交可能的全新的樣態因為確實我們在很多外交場合被打壓這件事情是事實但是如果可以透過他們的特殊性我認為我們可以進一步的產生更多國際的影響力 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11891.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11919.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
跟著報告因為我自己也待過外交國防委員會是所以我很清楚知道在政府的部會以外其他惡鬼外交的重要性是那所以就像剛剛委員提醒我會來請我們關西斯了吧這個部署工會上面這個強化國際交流的這個範疇那來研究一下能不能更大程度來放入可能大家現在比較關注的一些新興產業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11922.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11939.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
財產職業工會那能不能放入因為這些新興的產業其實也是現在外界相當會關注的一些很受關注的地方如果可以放入而且能夠讓大家有實質的國際的交流的話我覺得這確實是一個好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11940.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11957.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那當然我是勞動部我們不是外交部可是能夠做的部分能夠對外交提供到貢獻或者是也可以讓這些工會假如未來的進展可以更順暢或者是說得到更多的支持的部分我們會我來請關係室來研究這件事情看能不能把它更擴大的放入 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11957.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11958.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
三、審查勞動部部長列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11972.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11991.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
有一個雜誌去問一般的爸爸媽媽問說你認為何種職場措施最能夠讓父母安心生跟養也就是在所有的育兒津貼相關的費用補助以外其實所有的年輕爸媽最在意的其實就是彈性工時這件事情但是之前在那個新部長上任的時候其實我們也跟新部長討論過確實彈性工時需要企業整體的轉型甚至企業需要重新去設計一個所謂的生產流程我們來看下一頁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12001.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12023.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
可是這件事情呢這個看起來算是民間雜誌辦的調查跟相關的獎項可是他們後續造成的效應我想要跟部長分享我們來看下一頁部長你知道嗎被他們點選出來的獲獎企業他們的新生兒總數竟然達到臺北市一整年新生兒數的三分之一這個是前兩年的數字其實非常驚人 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12024.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12051.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
也就是說如果企業端他們真的可以做到友善育兒職場這件事情的所有政策其實對於出生率真的是有幫忙的我們來看一下他們連續這個是一個臺灣默克的員工他說原來我跟先生沒有打算生小孩我們的工作真的都很忙但是沒有時間陪伴小孩可是公司推動遠距上班跟彈性工時他們就決定生了小孩我想部長對於彈性工時絕對是熟悉的對於遠距上班也是熟悉的但是我想要問下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12053.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12078.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
後續造成的效應跟部長分享看起來雖然是一個民間雜誌社他們自辦了10年的獎項10年的調查他們花自己的經費做了這麼多這麼多的事情結果後來造成了包含歐洲商會還有很多的中小企業聯合會他們就紛紛邀請這個雜誌社去演講說你們你們的調查內容到底展現出什麼樣的成果讓企業在用人這件事情上這個是大大的加分 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12079.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12096.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那進入勞動部我們當然知道談談性工時很難遠距工作也很難因為台灣有百分之九十幾都是中小企業但是我們想問我們有沒有機會透過產官學跟民間的合作我們不斷來擴大這個獎項的效應讓相關獎項的可能性被更多企業看見也被我們更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12098.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12119.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
負責這些人力政策的行政官員看見原來彈性工時遠距上班還有更多的可能性可以被理解可以被轉換成政策所以這邊我想要快速的參與我希望後續可以跟勞動部持續討論我們如何站在產官學合作的角度跟相關這個雜誌社會合作也好或是跟很多民間企業合作去規劃跟去討論更多的可能性讓這些東西可以被看見 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12121.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12136.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
根準報告其實關於照顧部離職的政策其實是會是我上任以後我非常非常重視的部分所以我已經請請這個幾個私塾的同仁在做研討吼那包括假 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12137.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12151.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
是部分怎麼樣能夠更彈性也包括如果會需要一些經費支出的話才才源的的來源可以怎麼去做規劃是那大概講到彈性公司我覺得重點就是說這個這個彈性公司是能夠有助於勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12152.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12170.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
工作跟生活平衡的彈性公式這是我們優先考慮的這個所謂的彈性那剛剛委員講到說不管是透過獎勵的方式或者是這些這個表揚的方式我們都非常非常樂意來參與因為這確實要還需要持續的跟企業界 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12171.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12193.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
來做溝通可是我想我們的態度會是很清楚的就是這部分我也覺得是必要要再去做更多的突破不然會有更多尤其是我們的婦女的勞工其實在這個職場工作上常常面對二選一的這個狀況不管是從缺工的角度從新北平等角度來說這都不是好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12193.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12201.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
好,謝謝部長非常正向的回應。後續我們辦公室會再跟勞動部積極的討論。好,以上謝謝部長,謝謝主席,謝謝。好,謝謝陳培仁委員的發言,謝謝部長。我們下一位請林淑芬委員發言。主席,各位大家好。是不是來請我們洪部長? |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12224.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12224.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
在前紅部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12231.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12257.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
林委員好部長林委受命我覺得你是其實是很有勇氣的但是我覺得你也應該可以做一個是很有很願意改革的一個部長那我今天要就教於你是因為你早上講了一句話說勞動部你講勞發署但事實上也代表勞動部這個不是一個冰冷的單位是解決問題導向的一個你自己給自己的期待是這樣子你是要問題解決問題導向 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12259.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12274.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那我就就教於你的這件事情就是關於勞動事件這個勞動事件的這個事件法因為勞動事件法從立法通過到實行到現在將近五年幾乎就快要滿五年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12274.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12276.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
當時在立法的時候雖然是司法單位跟我們一起聯席的這個過程裡面當然我們就想說勞資的關係在勞資正義的時候勞工處於弱勢的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12292.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12293.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那因為勞工的談判的籌碼少那證據的掌握都在資方手上尤其勞資爭議的時候然後不利勞工去舉證可是勞工被欺負的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12307.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12321.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
沒有證據然後沒有辦法舉證在這種狀況裡面產生了一種結構上的不對等權利義務關係的不對等爭議協商的地位也不對等也沒有錢請律師大概法服的律師大家都會公認說法服的律師當然比資方聘僱的專業的律師大家都覺得效果沒那麼好啦那對等協商變淪為口號訴訟的這個經濟條件我們剛剛講其實也不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12335.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12354.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以我們看得出來整個法律的不要從法律的制定過程或是法律訴訟的過程其實有階級上的這個差異非常大的一個落差那所以大家當時我們衛王委員會跟司法法治委員會大家覺得說我們應該要為弱勢的勞工做點什麼在這種狀況裡面就在民事訴訟的特別架構裡面我們就架構了一個特別法就是勞動事件法 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12362.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12381.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那主要是調整了徵送的程序的規定在這個裡面當時在立法的時候強調了幾項第一個就是專業審理第二個強化當事人自主去迅速解決爭議對勞工來講時間對雇主時間是金錢但是勞工而言更是金錢因為他比雇主更弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12387.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12406.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那當時還講說減少勞工訴訟這個障礙便利勞工尋求法院的救濟然後要促進審判程序和時效然後要強化分爭統一解決第五個最後是叫即時有效的權力保全其實這個裡面你在講時效時效時效 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12407.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12421.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那現在講起來了經過了五年十五屆發現的一個事情所以需要你需要你去跟司法單位或者是相關的法治單位好好的談一下說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12423.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12439.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
法律通過到現在2018年到現在7年施行到現在5年到底是不是也應該要有一個新的檢討法案也要修正那這種狀況裡面我要跟你分享的就是說主要的爭點是在說我們在講強化當事人自主還要迅速解決爭議的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12445.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12464.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
結果強制要先調解先行在這種調解先行的狀況裡面是說起訴以前先調解啊調解不成的時候再進行訴訟這樣效率比較高可是我們知道重點問題執行起來就不是那樣子當 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12467.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12474.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
勞動事件法第8條第一項規定法院處理勞動事件應迅速進行依事件性質擬定調解或審理計劃那當事人應該以誠信的方式協力幫助前項程序然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12483.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12506.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
16條第一項規定除了有民事訴訟法第406條第一項第二款第四款第五款及性平法第十二條以外的條件全部都要先強制調解這個要求強制調解捏那首先你叫大家都要強制調解那你的調解必須要是有效的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12507.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12529.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
在這種狀況條解率若成功那你要求人家強制調解還有道理可是現在發現法律規定的強制調解司法院進行的強制調解跟你們過去勞工局勞動部門行政調解都一樣不好效率也不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12531.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12556.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
為什麼這樣講?因為勞動事件法第31條第一項規定那要先組成調解委員會。調解委員會認為調解不利於紛爭的迅速或妥適解決或不能依職權提出適當方案者視為調解不成立或告知或通知當事人。結果這個調解委員會的問題在哪裡?可以宣布調解不成立才可以進行訴訟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12558.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12580.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
結果調解不成立是調解委員會才能夠宣告當事人不能宣告這個配套我們不知道為什麼當初的法律是這樣立勞動調解委員會可以宣布人民沒有主張調解無效的這一個主張的權利那沒有調解不成立的話事情就斷掉了就要斷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12584.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12609.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
好淡淡淡那我們當時也講得很好聽啦因為勞動事件法第16條第17、18、22採強自調解第8、第23、第24條要求當事人及法院要協力促進調解然後講得很好聽說調解程序三個月內進行三次然後終結三個月三次終結為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12612.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12623.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
為原則而已啦。然後就是進行調解。調解不成立以後的訴訟才集中審理。然後還以一次期日辯論終結為原則。第一審應於六個月內審結。這兩個條款看起來很讚耶。 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12632.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12635.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
一定要調解三個月來一定要調出調改一個結果,啊你若是沒結果了去訴訟六個月來一定要審結。聽起來很好聽啊但是現實就不是那樣子因為都有例外條款當時我們在立法的時候都允許例外所以現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12656.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12684.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
運作起來都沒有3個月3次然後也沒有6個月內審結然後就存在那裡啊調解委員會本來規定說要有一個法官叫調解委員現在法官都沒有參加調解委員坐在那裡人家叫來調解人家看著調解委員如果不公信你啊就在那裡這樣所以以前啊我們在立法的時候哦大家都這樣拍拍手因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12685.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12687.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
大家覺得說過去的行政調解都沒有了 行政調解沒有棒子 有的棒子只有虛偽說明提供不實資料或是雇主不來協商拒絕調解未依通知出席才有處分而這一些處分事實上也沒有用過啦 很少用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12707.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12714.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以大家就會說你這個行政調解流於形式啦觀念勸導啦單純溝通啦實質影響這個對於這個爭議解決的方的實質影響幾乎是零啦所以大家想說唉喲換成這個勞動事件法來調解欸應該很有效喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12727.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12747.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
到時候調解不成法官在調解過程就形成新政了到時候審理會很快了終點在調解的時候已經整理了然後呢可以把終點新政直接轉化成訴訟資料的無縫對接的法律設計大家都覺得司法調解會更好更有效率結果有嗎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12749.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12760.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
法官都沒有參加法官也不願意參加也沒有時間參加啦大家都知道法官的案量如何我們還幫法官去聘請很多的助理在這種狀況裡面5年了勞動部沒有發現這一些問題你利益良善結果勞工反而因為被強制調解沒有辦法即使就進行審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12776.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12781.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
在行政調解就不行了,再來叫換一個調解,換一個調解法官也沒參加,也沒找到調解成功,這樣這樣就還要拖三個月、拖六個月,這樣才可以開始訴訟。結果就發生這種問題,部長你怎麼看呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12797.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12821.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那個先謝謝林委員提醒其實就我所知確實現在關於要調解先行這部分其實是司法院他們其實一直有這個想法那也的確就如剛剛委員說的其實在很多條件的場合反而看到法官都沒有到那這個就變成是原本看起來原本利益良善可是實質上面的運作跟執行上面就跟大家的會有一些落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12822.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12850.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那這個我我我自己非常非常願意我們怎麼樣從勞工的角度或者是有經歷過調解過程的角度如果有哪些部分在執行面可以改善的部分我們非常非常願意來其實不是執行面改善而已是司法院他們往往提出利益良善的改革包括我們的醫療糾紛的訴訟裡面依舊的鑑定要求自然人醫生要去具名醫生跟他講說不可行他仍然一意孤行然後法律過了以後已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12850.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12851.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
經過8個多月9個月沒有任何一個醫療糾紛有醫生願意去鑑定擺爛所以沒有辦法進行審理程序就是一個很活那個很鮮明的一個案例在那裡同樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12866.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12871.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
你看起來好像是說為了醫療鑑定的公正性、負責可信度,這樣叫醫生簽名會比較公正。其實運作起來不是。一樣勞動事件處理法,其實利益也良善,其他也很不錯。可是因為你強迫人家強制調解,結果這個東西沒有配套也不可走起來就不會贏的。裡面28條第一項還規定當事人不能合意成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12893.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12897.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
當事人不能合意成立調解時,勞動調解委員會因依職權斟酌一切狀況並求兩兆利益的平衡與不違反兩兆的主要意思內提出解決事件的適當方案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12912.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12939.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
所以委員我剛才說兩個層面第一個部分就是說在執行面怎麼樣改善我們可以跟司法院來討論但如果執行面真的一直沒有辦法達成當初立法的時候五年就是這樣子可以討論了沒有辦法達成當初修法的時候的目標的時候其實我想這些規範該檢討的部分我們當然非常願意來檢討不是規範啦是法律啦但是我的意思是說司法院不可能自己去改善當中的這是正確的改革的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12939.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12961.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
所以我們應該要把勞動部行政部門我們應該要把勞動在這個過程裡面的經驗我覺得我們要把它給反饋出來那我說執行面能改善的執行面先改善如果執行面改善還不夠能夠達到當時修法的目的的那個地方當然我覺得現在就是告訴你執行面就是沒辦法進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12963.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12966.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
勞動事業處理法第23條第一項規定勞動調解委員會進行調解時該委員會的法官要指揮其程序法官都沒來啊要怎麼指揮程序法官沒有全人在場哦然後都是調解委員在場然後結束調解時 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12982.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12990.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
法官才會來。然後在這個裡面還有一個我不要講調解了還有一個第49條第一項規定勞工提起確認僱傭關係存在之訴法院認為勞工有勝訴之望且僱主繼續僱用非嫌有重大困難者得一勞工資申請為繼續僱用及給付工資的定暫時狀態處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13009.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13010.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。), |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13022.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13046.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
現在問題來了勞工被雇主違法解雇勞工申請定暫時狀態處分勞工是要等待到申請結果還是要先去找工作另謀他就那如果他去另謀他就事情就大大掉了因為法院在認為有沒有定暫時狀態處分的必要的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13048.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13076.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
高等法院113年勞抗制第19號裁定就是認為若你你要訴訟但你在這當中已經找到新的工作所以勞工已經有工作支付其生活所需維持其工作技能及競爭力而駁回勞工的生情你要定暫時處分狀態要繼續發薪水給勞工若你有工作了人家就說你有工作有錢有收入了 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13077.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13102.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我不會叫雇主付錢啊請問如果是勞工你到底是要去找工作然後人家就幫你訂不幫不要求雇主繼續給付工資或者是你在那裡喝西北風不找工作沒有收入然後去請求法院可能會說叫雇主繼續給付工資給你這不是讓勞工陷入困境嗎還要等法院裁決到底是要另謀他就還是坐以待斃 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13109.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13123.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
跟委員報告當初設計這個條款最主要目的是盡快來做決定所以現在的法院依照勞動事件法法官會很快來確定有沒有嫌污勝訴之妄然後來做 你說很快本來是說六個月要審結事實上有例外條款以後都沒有六個月審結勞工會看你六個月盡快嗎?會看你三個月盡快嗎?會看你幾個月盡快嗎?勞工所有的薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13134.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13158.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
每一份每一個月的薪水都是為了支撐他那一個月的開銷你如果有房貸可以一個月無薪水連後呢去借錢來納出租納孩子的生活費用等等嗎所以這個條款我現在就執行起來因為高等法院這一個裁定會不會變成說他會變成一個判例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13163.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13180.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那個我們可以來主動來跟司法院來討論啦然後剛剛委員在講的部分但可能就這邊還有一些這樣假處分這樣的過程假處分的時間但也會需要一點時間可能暫時狀態的處分如果找到工作有薪水是非常不利於勞工的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13181.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13191.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以這整個過程原本的設計都是基於原本可能勞資之間上面權力不平等我們想要把勞工的這個權力往上撐對啊這是你們做起來的狀況是跟以前一樣的狀況執行起來啊所以我們要把這個過程裡面現在從勞方這邊他這個感受到的或實際上經驗的經驗我覺得要我們主動來回饋給司法院來跟他來討論我們是不是有修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13207.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13210.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13233.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13251.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
對所以我說這部分我們來跟司法院主動來跟司法院把勞工經歷的狀況跟不利的這個狀況來跟司法院來反映跟討論對我剛剛講說司法院很重要高等法院那個判決會被變成是法院一致的一致性的法律間接待機的大調安捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13254.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13266.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
但是勞動部不能夠眼睜睜的看你一個利益良善的法律指引起來反而對勞工落井下石。 我的親父親媳婦你又叫我強制丟蓋丟蓋就沒效沒了他們五年來都沒一次丟蓋成功的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13272.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13285.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
五年來都沒了你強去調解那我還在這裡本來是馬上可以審理你叫我再等三個月這個很荒謬啦然後到底要找工作還是不找工作也是很荒謬都限勞工於更不利的狀況利益良善但執行起來勞工頗受其苦這時候勞動部不能夠眼睜睜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13294.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13322.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
施法院沒插咱勞工啦施法院所以我在說我們會主動的來把勞工現在所遇到的狀況什麼時候會主動找施法院來討論我們這個月就來找他們討論了好不好這很重要要但據我們的經驗施法院死也不認錯死也不改過因為我們醫療糾紛鑑定9個月好幾百件的審理案件應得是擺爛在那裡沒有想要找解決的方法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13323.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13348.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
所以我是要告訴你說余仲欣常跟你講事情會很大條可是我知道這跨院的跨院的這一個議題可是真的是很重要我會主動來反映部長要麻煩你這個事情你本人親自關心一下好沒問題親自協調一下沒問題好謝謝謝謝林淑穎委員的發言謝謝部長我們下一位請賴世寶委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13358.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13361.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
謝謝主席一哥先進有請紅部長有請紅部長來紅部長請你看兩張這個勞保基金收不抵資從2017年開始他的保費收入3500多億支出3800多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13387.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13399.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那個點是276億一路到2023年就去年的時候這個虧的是446億然後今年預估要虧605億2025年預估虧849億就是你們的資料所給的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13408.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13418.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
而勞保的全程負債有人講十幾兆所以一個人平均要備56萬你可以看2017年到2025年累計的收不抵資3818億我們看下一張從2020年開始政府博補200億2021 220億一直到2024 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13438.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13466.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
一千兩百億一號特別條例呢分三年三百億合計已經撥補了兩千六百七十億加上你們現在已經送出來的預算了明年要撥補一千三百億加起來剛好就三千八百七十億來回到前一張啊收不抵之三八一八再回到第二張 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13467.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13494.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
政府給了3870這兩張圖講得很清楚就是如果沒有政府撥補勞保是不是要破產請問部長是不是?撥補當然非常重要是不是撥我請你回答如果沒有這3870億勞保是不是目前數字算起來可能還沒啦但是因為那個危險的線越來越近了這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13495.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13524.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
你什麼叫危險的現業額已經聽不懂了這聽不懂這是什麼意思啊我跟委員報告現在我們的餘額有1兆900多億是啊但是很多人沒有來申請啊那些人全部來的話你就病了啊對吧是是是是是吧對不對對我們就是有些人沒有有條件來申請但是他沒有申請所以你還有1兆多否則如果今天那些有資格拖來今天病了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13525.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13540.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
我這樣講我對吧那位這位長官這位長官是不好意思我保險司保險司司長是是是跟委員報告我這樣講對吧如果可以申請的人就是今天來申請今天就破產對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13541.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13558.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
當然是有很多 是這樣子嘛沒錯啊大家都清楚因為有些條件夠了但是他沒有來申請是不是這樣 是但是當然還是要符合資格要離職退保啦才可以 什麼東西要離職退保如果還在工作的人也是不能來申請啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13559.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13562.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
對啦那麼我講的那個就是說如果符合條件的就來跟你申請就破產那麼就不夠了我們的水庫的錢水庫的水不夠嘛是不是這樣是是是是嘛因為你說一兆多可是我們的負債十幾兆啊這檔案盡量這帳很好算嘛對不對那個那個賴委員當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13580.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13602.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
這個遣償負債的這個部分是說如果單一次大家都來提領的話會會有這樣子這個我覺得它比較是一個極端情境的我們當然不是賭他啦但是所以我說撥補當然現在還是是一個重要的手段之一所以你如果按照這位市長講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13604.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13616.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
如果這樣你還要一兆多的話根本不需要勞動部啊明年的一千一千三百億不用給沒關係不會破產啊但是你還要一兆多啊那個老人確實現在現在保費的收入跟支出確實現在就像你剛才呈現的數據其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13619.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13622.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
公務及基金預算．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13638.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13665.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
但是這其實也是把原本大家對於勞保基金的警報的實現往後再拉一點一段時間而已但我們不會說這樣子勞保基金就全然是不用擔心的也不是這個意思啊你有沒有想過怎麼樣讓他因為你剛剛講一兆那你現在潛財務部長十幾兆有人講十五兆打個七折也有十兆你你你你這部長要總是要想一個比較長期的 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13667.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13687.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
我所了解的以前的以前叫勞保局的齁勞保局長第一件事情上來看他信什麼宗教他幾乎都是要禱告啦或者要念什麼的說讓他任內不要破產幾乎都這個樣子anytime都會破產啦這是很嚴重的問題你現在可以看嘛這個數字講的2020到2025如果不是政府撥補啊你就 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13694.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13697.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
對,很辛苦了啦!很辛苦了啦!你們剛才那個市長講的根本就不需要撥補了啊!因為你們有一兆多啊!這麼多錢在那裡啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13717.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13734.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我們並不是這個不需要的意思一兆元其實是現在這是事實事實上面這個是現在的事實即便有一兆元現在來講一個很重要的原因就是因為少子化嘛是不是只有一個來講你水庫政府撥補或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13737.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13760.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
寶貴提高有沒有可能寶貴提高即便現在我已經問你時間到了有沒有可能包括寶貴提高或者是砍脊腹的兩件事確實很大程度會影響勞工的權益所以這是我們認為要非常非常謹慎而為或者是謹慎的來思量陳建仁前副總統在推動年改的時候他是連勞工都要砍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13761.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13771.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
後來勞工都沒有砍也沒有人反對了保障勞工,勞工相對比較弱勢但是用這個理由但是用軍工交給砍了兇巴巴的然後勞工都不砍還給他這個兩千兩千兩千兩千多億啊這個給他三千八百七十億啊就老實講這是安廢啊但是但是就是這樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13783.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13794.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
對,所以剛剛跟大人說明是說不管是增加保費或者是砍脊腹這確實是對整體的勞工來說這是攸關非常非常大的原因所以我們在這很謹慎思考下面才會覺得說現在這個政府的撥補很重要也很關鍵啦那那那這樣講的話這樣講的話這個退府基金撥補也就可以了啊如果這樣講的話對不對那個部長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13809.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13829.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
你在這裡是不是重申一句話剛剛你講的確定這樣就是最少在你任內你當部長任內不會提高保費勞保保費不會砍勞保的給付一毛錢可以嗎目前政策上面就是沒有要提高保費也沒有要砍給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13830.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13841.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
就是在你任內嘛是吧?至少至少就目前好最後一個小問題很重要的問題喔我們來看喔薪資佔GDP的比例啊我們現在都說喔華佔度華佔GDP喔成長4%啦當地都4%結果給勞工的只有43%台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13849.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13864.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
美國給勞工的53%日本53.2%韓國超過50%這個嚴重的讓臺灣的勞工的薪資都長期偏低我們有七成的勞工領不到平均薪資部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13866.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13869.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
你有什麼作為說可以讓企業主願意賺的錢多扶你的勞工這是你該做的事情啊讓勞工生活不要那麼的辛苦那個賴雲我很同意你現在說的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13882.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13903.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那怎麼樣拉高薪資?第一個事情是包括我們現在在推動包括薪資的透明化明年可能是就你只要是五萬以下的薪資你其實在招聘過程中你其實都要揭露那這部分過去來看的話是有一定的效果的這是第一個第二個當然就像這幾年我們對於基本工資的部分也持續的在做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13904.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13932.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那接下來我自己也在思考我也跟同仁在討論說有沒有可能透過像這個跟金管會合作那對於他在這個相關的ESG相關他可能怎麼樣提出一個能夠提高薪資或者是讓勞工有更多的分潤甚至包括降減低工時的具體的策略或者是行動的方案在這裡面能不能放入我加一條你可以跟金管會談我時間到了主席暫時我尊重加一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13933.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13959.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
你告訴金管會說應該推一個現在不是很流行ETF嗎加薪100ETF就加薪最前面的100加就放在ETF加薪100現在有個指數了現在沒有這個指數沒有這個指數沒有加薪100或者加薪50都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13959.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13981.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這個我想因為讓人在對於這個金融相關的部分當然比我專業很多我覺得我們這些相關的做法我們可以來持續討論我們願意跟金管會來做用各方法的討論我們立委人文言情啊你部長比較有分量當然當然我是說我們我剛才就跟金管會講了N次他不理我你就跟他解啊有可能有可能性的我們當然願意跟金管會來做討論啊對謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13985.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14012.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
好,非常謝謝賴志柏委員的發言,也謝謝洪部長。先宣告在洪孟楷委員發言完畢後,休息20分鐘。那下一位我們請鄭天才委員發言。好,主席、國務委員,有請部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14015.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14038.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
請紅部長也請那個快遞是快遞處嗎?你們叫主計處勞動部的快遞處快遞處好這位好好那個部長恭喜你不用說恭喜好我們看今天的這個基金齁這個編列的預算就安定基金齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14040.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14069.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那救援安定基金的用途寫得非常的明確。那個部長救援安定基金收支保管及應用辦法第一個它是行政院主計總署這個發布施行的所以這個在整個基金管理委員會有主計總署的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14070.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14085.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
然後請問一下會計處處長請問一下哈這個當然前面都已經提到過的就是舉辦營業會對不對365萬多元舉辦營業會請問一下在簽到要要送到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14096.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14125.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
管理委員會審議的時候之前是不是管理組要先審查?業務單位會先簽合給你們嗎?還是直接就送來管理委員會?跟委員報告這個部分那個我們業務單位在要決定要舉辦這個音樂會的時候其實他都有照相關的行政程序有簽合到首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14127.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14144.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
要經過你嗎?我現在問的是,我現在替部長去讓他瞭解,怎麼會講不清楚呢?要送到這個就案基金管理委員會審議之前,內部要先簽合,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14144.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14147.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
是,是。我也要先,要不要先回你? |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14149.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14176.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
如果是涉及到採購的話當然會阿要動資金費都要匯會會阿我說說這個程序要讓部長瞭解一下這個程序他要送到就按基金管理委員會審議之前要不要先內部先簽合要要先經過會議處嗎是好部長你要去瞭解瞭解什麼呢就是這個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14180.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14204.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
會計處有沒有盡到責任?會計處要去審查這些東西啊。到底符不符合就業安定基金的用途。這是最基本的。那個周委員我認為這恐怕也不只是會計處的責任啦。我沒有我只是責任很多因為大家都在談那個之前的委員的質詢大概都在談 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14206.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14225.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
第一個當然是部長嘛第二個就是這個委員會有沒有好的審議嘛基本上如果會計處都都隨便蓋章那就是錯誤的包括你看我問一下處長會議處處長這些像這個這個辦公室的採購案在這個兩千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14237.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14261.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
兩千兩百五十萬在就業安定基金的預算裡面呢當年度的預算書有沒有變這麼多預算書沒有變那麼多跟委員報告這個部分我們是在我們的勞動力發展署的資訊設備相關的這個科目之下所做的一個所以不是就業安定基金是就案基金是就案基金是啊有這麼多嗎變這麼多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14264.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14287.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
一定是在我們的預算的不是我問你有沒有變那麼多預算數預算數處長你也不知道好這樣好不好好不好那個這樣的這些確實都是用中央基金來支付的這個我已經確認過了對處長我要我要快速處長你很重要是我是老公務員啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14289.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14317.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
基本上第一關就是你們的可不可以動資這個經費第一關就是你們這個是很重要因為你是一條邊什麼叫一條邊呢你是勞動部部長是管不了你的你要一條你是一條邊你是行政院主計總署指派的對不對處長是不是所以你很重要所以顯然這個機制有問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14320.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14341.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這機制有問題。如果他們都沒有表示意見,那就是會議處的問題。如果他們有表示意見,那是部長的問題。好,你回去也查一下。這些有沒有比預算數還高的?你有知道嗎現在?可以現在回答嗎?有沒有比預算數還高的?當年度的預算數。 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14351.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14355.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
為什麼我要問這個呢提供資料給我有時候出在操之並結算有一個機制操之並結算 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14368.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14392.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
這個機制是最糟糕的、最容易出問題的,操之並決算。所以這個部分,時間的關係本來還有很多議題要談,下次再跟部長提供相關的意見給你。謝謝政務委員提醒。好,謝謝鄭天才委員的發言,謝謝部長。我們下一位請羅志強委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14403.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14406.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
主席有請部長。好,請紅部長。好,部長好。根據勞動部今年展開的調查,2024年3月到6月一共有543件職場性騷擾通報。你知道公務機關有多少件嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14428.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14439.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
134件占總比大概是24.7百分比其中成立了74件占比大概是55%我想請問部長像這種職場性騷擾的狀況未來要如何改善? |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14445.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14463.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
當然現在因為在去年信憑三法修過以後其實是有強化了包括幾個機制嘛包括如果是尤其是如果是僱主或機構負責人的話那當然現在有機制來處理的那我想你部內的一些強化作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14463.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14467.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
當然我覺得我們還是要來加強這部分的宣導那尤其是如果真的有發生類似的狀況的話當然該怎麼處置就應該確切處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14478.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14498.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
如果發生像違反性平的問題的話勞動部就要嚴肅處理嘛 對不對 那想請教你齁違反性平或進行言語性騷擾有很多種態樣嘛 對不對 好想請問部長啊如果在職場上指責一個女性穿著曝露噁心請問算不算違反性平跟甚至嚴重構成所謂性騷擾也還要懷疑啊 不會吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14507.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14512.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算．及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14529.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14541.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
甚至還跟他講說我跟你講你穿成這個樣子暴露噁心你是打算要碰瓷去讓男性去告男性性騷擾你覺得這樣有沒有更嚴重有沒有更嚴重有沒有構成性平和違反性騷擾部長我告訴你你剛剛前面已經講我要肯定你 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14554.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14576.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
請問你知道齁這種不恰當的性別歧視言論齁就發生在上週五啊就是你的前同僚啊黃婕跟吳佩奕啊對陳玉珍委員的歧視霸凌就剛剛一個一個要件來講他們有沒有今天批評陳玉珍說他穿著曝露噁心 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14577.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14592.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
一大堆都有喔。 對不起我真的是忙到沒時間看。 對對對你太忙了齁。 信憑的主管機關的勞動部長關心一下去看看影片。 對我因為這幾天真的太忙了。 你今天去看看影片可以吧?可不可以? |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14592.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14594.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
看看你前同事的影片可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14594.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14605.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
不要欸部長你不要遇到你前同事你標準你前面講過了喔你剛剛講過如果批評女性批評一個人穿著暴露噁心 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14607.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14630.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
那說我們構成性平衡跟違反在性騷擾說要看當事人的感受陳毓正有沒有覺得被冒犯你也不知道我告訴你陳毓正就覺得被冒犯所以今天我要請問部長對這樣的事情你認同嗎你可不認同你不認同如果這一位被批評的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14631.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14640.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
他如果遇到這樣子的問題在職場在職場裡面的工作者遇到這樣的問題的話當然依法規他是可以提出申訴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14641.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14658.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
我問的不是申訴法國委員會是你主管機關勞動部長的態度啊推給人家申不申訴你做一個主管機關遇到錢頭你不要轉彎了嗎陳委員我沒有轉彎但是對於現在你在描述我跟你講我沒有打算要你針對黃捷跟這個吳佩奕啦針對這種類似的情形請你公開表態反對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14667.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14687.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
這是對於所謂我們現在關於性平主管機關一個基本的態度接下來我要跟你說啊事實上今天這件事情啊我看到民進黨的那個態度啊你以前當過當市民黨立法委員之一啊這個事情離譜到什麼程度你一定又說不知道我告訴你他們罵陳玉珍說裡面穿著內衣暴露噁心 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14695.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14718.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
時尚陳宇珍影片出來裡面穿的是什麼你知道嗎?不知道穿是襯衫啊我真的不知道沒關係啦沒關係請你去關心一下是穿是襯衫為什麼會今天襯衫會變成是內衣為什麼就民進黨以為扯破的啊扯破之後再罵他噁心再幫他暴露還幫他碰瓷 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14719.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14733.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那今天到這邊我看到我們的部長你就是一推二五六嗎?我沒有一推二五六我真的不清楚因為這個任何信憑﹖好啦我告訴你啦我沒有應該循機制來進行我不是在勸告啦按照機制進行那不是廢話不是廢話嗎本來就按照機制進行啊我今天為的是一個身為部長信憑主管機關勞動部的部長的對於違反信憑甚至性騷擾的問題的態度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14748.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14770.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
今天立法委員我先不要講這兩位立委過去他經常就是標榜透過自由的傳達信憑的概念今天遇到陳玉珍信憑概念倒退三千里他們可以倒退三千里因為他們是立法委員他們不是勞動部長你勞動部長我想這個事情上要有很清楚的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14772.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14786.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
反對就反對,不要因為他是你舊同僚就當作沒這件事情。 這跟任何人沒關係,我來瞭解一下到底發生了什麼事好不好。 好,謝謝你,感謝。謝謝羅志強委員的發言,謝謝部長。我們下一位請洪孟凱委員發言。好,主席謝謝,麻煩請洪部長。好,請洪部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14806.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14829.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
好,我也好。副部長好。兩個禮拜齁,11月25號到現在兩個禮拜的時間上任。那你剛剛也講說最近都很忙啊。我想我們也來危機解密一下,因為本席也很好奇,你在這一屆第11屆其實是擔任立法委員嘛。當初在不分區立委的時候,我們曾經有想過說會中途一半然後就來接任部長嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14830.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14834.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務概況：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務． |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14852.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14879.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
就是行政院來邀請的啊來邀請對啊我知道所以說我的意思是說你跟院長有沒有溝通過還是甚至賴總統有沒有跟你溝通過勞動部是行政院的所屬的機關部會機關的一份所以是行政院來邀請的是那院長有沒有跟你溝通院長有私下跟你溝通嗎要你就說臨危受命想要說服你接下這個重責大任有吧他們是來邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14881.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14898.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
對,部長這有很難回答嗎?其實我聽不太懂耶。部長,你就是來邀請啊?對,來邀請,我知道,但我說來邀請的時候你有沒有做過討論或者是思考甚至是說第一時間可能不確定為什麼這個時候要你接下這個燙手山芋? |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14899.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14910.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我當然會有我自己的思考當然所以你有跟院長有沒有好好的開誠布公溝通過?院長有沒有期許說你接任這個勞動部長有什麼樣的任務要完成? |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14912.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14937.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
行政院當然是希望我要好好尤其優先處理現在在部內發生的這個所謂霸凌的這個爭議的事件也包括現在內部同仁目前這個因為這個事件所帶來的一些包括不安然後或者是很惶恐的這個狀態所以就要是救火把這個勞動部這個霸凌事件給好好的落幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14939.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14962.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
這短期來說的話當然現在這是我們最優先的事情那你有沒有跟院長溝通過去到現在你擔任立法委員的時候都曾經針對勞動部有非常多的期許跟要求包括說不只是這個育嬰價的部分不能以日為單位更希望能給僱主更多幼嬰參與事辦計畫等等相關你的堅持跟主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14962.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14969.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
有沒有要求部長要求院長就如果說你接任部長的話你過去的主張你也一定會在勞動部的任內來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14973.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14994.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
這個是我當時因為我上一屆在衛環委員會裡面我當然會對於勞動部有各種的監督啊嗯部長你這樣子講的非常的閃爍我都經過閃爍啊到底有沒有跟院長溝通過啊你在接任之前有沒有跟院長溝通過他們來跟我邀請他們是誰就行政院當然有來跟我邀請啊這是事實的事情啊是啊所以你有沒有跟院長親自的開會討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14996.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15022.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
開什麼會就是院長要聘請任何一個人擔任他的部署的時候部會首長行政院來跟我邀請當然我做行政院是誰啊行政院來跟我邀請當然我做我該做的考慮嘛然後後來我決定所以是院長不願意接受秘書長還是政委我願意接受這個任務最後我在我考慮以後我願意接受這個任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15024.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15046.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那我就有我該承擔的責任。部長這不禁讓我懷疑是說你是不是連跟院長溝通的機會都沒有你就接下這個任務。我想我們不管是部會那麼重要的一個職務或者是小至一般一般私人公司我今天我要聘請一個單位主管的時候總經理沒有跟這個單位主管溝通是說我到底要做什麼樣的事情。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15048.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15070.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
行政院有來跟我邀請那我也告知我會有的考慮那這個考慮經過我考慮之後我決定要接受這份任務部長看起來有些難言之隱那部長再來請教一下就業安定基金之前很多委員也都有關心本期上個禮拜也有關心過對不對那現在我們要要求的是說因為在這一次其實很離譜的狀況是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15072.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15099.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
是這個演唱會等等部分剛剛我們有這個會計主管也講說這演唱會還是到最後牽合到我們前任部長有牽合過才來辦是 對不對所以換言之外界會質疑是說有所謂自肥就是說你真的要用人民的納稅錢開演唱會你自己找錢嘛你怎麼會用就業安定基金裡面然後巧立明目變成是政令宣導然後來辦演唱會還自己牽合自己來演 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15100.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15123.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這就莫名其妙了可是本期現在要講另外一個部分就上禮拜我也要求是說那應該要比照其他部會及其他部會有相關的基金但是像文化部基金用於政府採購案的案件也都會公告在相關的官網上面但我們在就業安定基金裡面其實用於採購的部分我們是沒有公告我們的相關官網的 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15124.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15147.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
那這一點是不是應該要改進?我之前有回覆其他委員我自己我們因為我們現在正在檢討就算你已經整體的管理的機制是那我包括說委員的會的組成我自己希望這個管理的機制第一個要怎麼讓他更專業包括外部委員的角色是也包括怎麼讓他朝向一個更明確監理化的角度去規劃那當然剛才說 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15149.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15171.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
關於一些資訊揭露的部分我也覺得可以做得更多政府採購在一般的本預算你們為什麼大家會覺得是說你是巧立明目或是說走後門說走巧門就是政府採購我們只要超過10萬元以上我們就要公開電子採購甚至還有這個比較大額的都會有在相關的網站上可以找到 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15172.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15188.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
但是就業安定基金裡面不管剛剛鄭天才委員秀出來的買咖啡豆的、情保全的、清潔的、辦演唱會的沒有辦法在電子採購官網上找到我們也沒有辦法看到說到底這些案件是不是跟計畫的名稱一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15190.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15216.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
所以這就逃避監督啊所以能不能承諾未來基金的部分用於採購也一定要公開在網站上面現在其實這個相關的採購在網路上面其實就有看得到了你沒有在我們的這個相關網站啊官方網站沒有啊在公工程的網站其實都可以查得到的但是是不是比照文化部等相關部會當基金歷年用於政府採購案件一併公告在相關勞動勞發署的官方網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15218.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15227.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
就是說我們當然也可以把它做一個整理其實放在勞發署網站也可以但是我說在工程會的網站上面這些只要是公開招標的標案都可以找得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15228.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15255.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
公開標案但是過去到現在大家就認為是說這就是有三條而且跟計劃的名稱有不符合的狀況對但是我就說就公開就這一個標案的公開來說目前其實是都有放在工程會上面是能夠查得到的好本期還是要求啊歷次我們這些相關的跟計劃名稱不符合的其實就業安定基金我從上一次質詢的時候就已經有講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15257.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15280.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
12項裡面的法令規定你有很多的計劃名稱其實是跟到最後使用用途是不符合的包括說辦公室的裝潢包括是說咖啡豆採購包括說這次演唱會的辦理所以像這些部分部長你之前有承諾過什麼時候會檢討出來跟委員說明上禮拜我承諾過其實在我們會在一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15282.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15297.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
這時間裡面讓我們提出這個方案那我應該講也講到了一個重點其實在這個收支管理辦法裡面他其實有列了12項對我們現在也在看這12項裡面有沒有哪些項目其實應該做一個更嚴謹的把關或條件的限定 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15298.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15316.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
這部分也在我們檢討的範圍內要怎麼樣的把關限定是有委員的部分其實這也是本席剛剛有一直強調的就是說你其實就要安定基金的委員當然的組成人是人從過去到現在其實有開會但是有開等於沒開啊而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15317.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15339.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
如果說真的有執行出這樣子的委員會的一個成效的話其實也就不會發生演唱會那麼離譜的一個事件了自己簽和自己辦不覺得這樣子真的是很誇張嗎我要說明的事情是當然這個管理的成員這個部分我們怎麼樣讓他能夠更大的發揮功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15340.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15366.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
那也不只是成人的部分甚至包括機制的部分甚至是不是要有一些更多的條件的限定這事情這些事情都在我們現在檢討的範圍內好所以一個禮拜內會提出相關的書面一個月一個月嗎是好好謝謝謝謝謝謝黃孟凱委員的發言謝謝部長重新宣告在羅天維委員發言完畢後休息20分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15370.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15391.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
若元請謝謝有請部長請黃部長部長我想勞團現在說要絕食抗議齁我還是再一次問你你會現場去接見請您他們的訴求嗎請您就實回答會跟不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15393.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15412.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
現在我們會先來吧。我知道你要去做改革但是我所在意的是你會不會出席會不會去接見他們。我們會來關心。那所以你會本人去關心嗎?我們會來關心。對不起你會本人去關心嗎?我們會來關心。對不起喔我覺得你的回應都是在迴避就跟他們絕食抗議的內容一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15413.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15427.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
為什麽不能就我的回答我要求你來回答我的一個問題我覺得我所看到的你在之前勞團所做抗議的時候你去現場去做一個對話到現在你做部長了人走茶樑 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15428.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15432.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務概況：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務． |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15447.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15450.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15470.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15491.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
請那個委員跟委員說來我直接講喔你要請人上來就你都沒關係那個部長我可以說我可以說先做說明那你先回答我嘛好不好你不要直接今年今年的這個勞保基金的水位已經破罩了那確實這幾年因為撥補也包括基金的投資的收益的表現比預想中來的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15492.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15508.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
但是整個勞保說勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題我們還是非常非常神聖在看待我都知道部長我想軍公教還有這個勞工現在我們大家都很關心先請問一下部長上週是司法法治委員會排審公務人員退休之前的撫恤法 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15509.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15526.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
那我想這一個進度我先不問你了因為你不是跟這個司法法制有關係喔但是部長當初年改修改後可以延後一個世代140年根據全區部上週四的報告如果按照啊藍委所提出的版本通過以後退福基金用慶將提早4到5年發生喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15529.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15546.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
所以當初民進黨甚至澳大利亞網軍污名整個公務人員然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員整個大工程完以後只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下我先問你勞保精算哪時候會再出爐下一次的?出稿出來了嗎?年底就會出爐出稿出來了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15555.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15572.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
委員好跟委員報告因為今年是精算那現在精算是正在做最後的一個期末報告的修正好所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的一個數字啦沒關係我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問2021年精算報告是哪時候破產可以回答我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15574.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15577.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15592.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15594.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我們擔心領不到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15594.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15617.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
我先補充幾個資訊齁按照這幾年其實包括因為波普包括投資收益的增加二零二八年的這個數字看起來是很有機會會往後再延後的但這不代表沒有危機我要說這不代表沒有危機我們怕勞工領不到但是我剛才說的意思是說你剛才講的這計算報告是二零二一年的計算報告說二零二八年會有這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15618.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15641.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
但有可能可以再延後以目前這幾年的數據看起來我們當然希望能夠延後啦但是我現在要講的是據安思維先行處理我們都希望年底出來的這個報告是好的但是我要講的是現階段你不敢承諾那請問部長民進黨修法後軍功交到140年破產目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義那如果勞保也要到140年破產請問一下需要撥補多少錢140年 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15649.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15667.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
我想幾千億幾千億的撥補就是現在的政策但是我要講的是最後還是破產所以到底是不是在打假球我們要的改革是能夠勇士的我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的可是現在看到了你當立委也支持軍公教要改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15668.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15688.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
勞保可以撥補那為什麼當初軍工叫改革撥補不行為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會答案就是政治考量勞保要破產了病症已經非常嚴重了這八年來都不敢送改革方案只有撥補一圖為什麼不敢送一切都是因為選舉所以我希望勞保司的司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15689.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15704.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
勞保2028年我們就2021年的精算喔你有做這樣子的一個事務官的一個責任喔勞保年改的重要幕僚請問部長講的這些外我們師長能不能給予其他的一些解決方案喔又或者給部長一些建議呃我 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15709.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15728.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
你有沒有建議啦?直接說有或沒有啦?根本報告我們現在做了撥補我們會持續辦理。好啦,我會有些實際的建議方案具體給我書面報告啦。那我想問這個救安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫?也是行政院的小金庫?小金庫之名是怎麼來的?我們來了解一下。答案就是亂用嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15728.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15756.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
用途、名目、亂七八糟。部長我想問一下為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在救安基金裡面?跟文說明因為這跟移工的管理有關。我想法定職長的一個業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算?如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用救安基金那移民署所有的人員薪水因為他們也在查緝移工啊他們要不要也編在救安基金裡面? |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15757.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15780.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
部長我們這個PTT後續我要先請你看一下你在2020年就發現救安基金被勞動部亂用拿去支付律師費是否現在問題是依舊我要說明的事情是第一個剛才在講到這個查緝移工的對不起我現在問你這個律師費現在救安基金是不是還在支應是不是還有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15787.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15813.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
還是問不出來到現在每次就案基金上次我才在罵就案基金必考題你們到現在還不知道2020年就發現就案基金有問題從2020到2024欸紅部長你身為立委的時候你發現他有問題你做了哪些處置你有杯葛預算嗎還是護航預算這一則貼文寫到經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求認為勞動部在溝通後轉變是一個好的開始請問部長當下 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15817.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15819.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
好的開始是什麼?那現在他還沒有再來跟勞工打官司? |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15836.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15855.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我想用律師費這應該要一併檢討那律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊是不是細項讓我知道一下有多少的救安基金還用在各個律師費的指引上我想救安基金就像魔戒大家都說不好可是不好然後又還一直用一直亂用 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15855.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15859.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15878.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15894.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
而我覺得關於救安基金有多少用在比方說用在訴訟的過程這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司而我覺得我認為救安基金的使用應該是要站在 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
15895.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
15912.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
謝謝你的補充我聽到了但是我要講的是之前也有其他的委員對於救安基金各個細項能不能公開我們都予以關心喔所以我想我是認同的我希望救安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開讓全民知道這部分您可以承諾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
15914.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
15917.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
15934.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
15958.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
你就是在迴避問題嗎?只求對決讓全民知道你敢不敢公開?委員我沒有在迴避我現在正在面對這個問題我知道但是你不能每一次都說我可以做更多我可以關心但是你的關心程度到多少?你的具體項目是什麼?能不能公開?能不能實際上公開?委員我們正在檢討這件事情然後我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
15959.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
15975.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
但執行面會處理到什麼程度這當然我覺得我們一些執行的細節上面我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論你這樣子詳細的說明我可以接受嘛可是你剛剛就直接說我可以來討論我們會來關心我不希望有這樣子的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
15975.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
15990.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我們就直球對決你可以講述你自愛難行的地方我們會體諒但我們不要踢到迴避 羅文在剛剛在講到資訊公開部分我當然有回覆請問我我都認為這部分確實是可以做更多的 我們會後繼續討論謝謝昭偉 昭偉沒站起來但是給我這麼多時間不好意思 謝謝好謝謝羅典偉的發言謝謝部長跟各級的同仁那我們休息20分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16037.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16038.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
公務及基金預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
17221.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
17221.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
我們繼續開會。下一個我們還要麥玉珍委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
17248.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17253.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
好,謝謝我們召委。有請部長。有請部長。麥委好。部長好。請教一下我們臺灣有70萬的移工。請教一下我們臺灣的勞工跟我們的移工的勞健保的制度有一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17278.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17304.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
請教你一下因為這個你對勞工是很清楚的嘛所以要請教你一下有一樣嗎我想是勞工的話都會有勞健保對對但是說移工跟勞工的勞保勞健保的制度有一樣嗎移工也是勞工啊是啊有沒有一樣啊你說有沒有一樣就是都會有勞健保啊是啊都有啊但是有沒有一樣啊給付也一樣啊那麼簡單回答不了給付也是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17305.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17332.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
提供也是一樣的?你說提供一樣是所以賠償也是一樣的嗎?老保是賠償是一樣的嗎?所以我們賠償是一樣的話但是如果我們的移工死亡的時候所以我們國外的家屬要申請保險這些的理賠的過程的因素我們覺得是資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17334.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17336.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17352.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17372.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
呃跟賣人說明齁我覺得你因為你這邊提到幾個個案那如果你有相關的資訊可以讓我們多瞭解啦齁因為就是說到底 這個不是指個案而已啦齁因為我在92年就成立協會是到現在你是勞工的代表應該你是很瞭解勞工這個部分所以才要請教你齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17373.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17395.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
因為我們是在臺灣移工在臺灣的保險跟我們的臺灣的勞工的保險有一些出入不是一樣的所以這個部分如果一樣的話就是有勞退這些的制度但是事實上完全是有不一樣外國的移工跟臺灣的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17397.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17413.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
的勞健保是有不一樣的所以有不一樣又有非常不一樣你講的是申請的程序吧是程序上面程序還是說他們的保障所以說不一樣的如果一樣的話就是有勞退這一些有一些不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17414.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17423.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
就說因為我想要更清楚瞭解那個脈人現在指的那個不一樣是你你你提的那個不一樣的點因為不一樣的點是說我們是外國移工專門他們在台灣他有他們的勞基法不同跟台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17432.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17446.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
來灣的臺灣人的勞工的勞基法有一點出入這個部分的話應該是你們很清楚但是你們說一樣我是看到的是不一樣但是說我現在要想要跟大家說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17447.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17450.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
我們是在家屬在國外申請我們是要從105年到後面還有前面的賠償都不一樣還有他們申請的方法也不一樣還有他們的家屬只要說他太太 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17468.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17491.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
結婚他們家裡就是可以領小孩子可以領到18歲只要說他的太太沒有結婚他可以領但是問題我們沒有一個部門也沒有一個透明的資訊讓這些人從國外如何再說他證明每年都要證明你們才有去補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17491.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17494.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
但是說在國外沒有一個部門可以申訴也沒有一個部門專門為這些外國人他已經在台灣死亡了但是他的家屬如何去申請這樣子的一個補助到18歲完全沒有所以這個部分我希望說我們在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17510.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17527.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
有多少移工有多少就是意外死亡或者其他死亡他們的家屬怎麼樣去申請這個費用有沒有持續還是說只有一次就是那一次來台灣就申請那一次後面就沒有了還有很多就是說他們申請這樣子的勞建勞保的賠償的時候要 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17532.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17555.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
要他們的顧主要蓋章但是問題如果他們顧主沒有蓋章他們也申請不到所以後續的發展是完全是他們繳10年10幾年但是他們家屬是沒辦法逐年領到這樣子的經費所以這個是百分之百是事實所以說你們要拿出這樣子的書面給我回答一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17557.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17576.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
跟委員報告啊,就是移工跟本國的被保險人的相關權益在保險上面都一模一樣。好,如果是一模一樣是賠償一樣的嘛。是不是?賠償一樣所以他們你們怎麼保證他們繳這個錢,他們是賠償是有真正的拿到的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17576.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17592.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那就是說移工在國外喔如果是拿的是外國的一些文件的話就需要認證就只有這樣沒有不是認證的問題認證是這邊有什麼什麼單位直接因為我們在台灣我們每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17593.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17612.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
家人可以跟勞動部去申請就是撫養小孩就是勞保的部分到18歲對不對但是他的太太要證明他沒有結婚才可以領但是如果他在他的國家已經結婚了要拿出證明他沒有結婚所以但是你們每年怎麼去撥款怎麼樣說保證他們可以領到18歲是完全沒有任何去管理或者制度如果是你們說有的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17621.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17640.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
希望那麼多年的拿出這樣子的證明你們真的有照這樣的制度以來去撥補還是說補助他們的因為我現在是很多人跟我們反映是他們人已經死亡在台灣了但是他的家人三年五年後沒有人協助他們是領不到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17643.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17657.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
我請相關單位來跟辦公室再瞭解一下細節尤其是你收到的案件的這些細節那如果有哪些部分在申請的程序上面需要我們的業務單位多做一點協助的部分我請他們來做協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17658.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17676.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
我希望說你把所有就是各國的死亡率他你們多補還是補助他們的有多少有哪一些沒辦法做到的不是只有個案跟你們說明所以我們希望的勞動部是要建立一個友善就是可以申請還有協助簡化的賠償這樣子的一個機制還有就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17681.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17704.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
不同國家的議員這樣子的話他們才會知道說找哪一個部門這個部分不是只有我個案去申訴而已我希望是說你們拿出就是這個資料因為我在協會裡面我一年協助移工你們沒有處理的我們是協助處理的包含失聯移工超過30件 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17706.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17712.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
每年,所以這個部分我們希望說你們拿出來說你們逐年你們有賠償還有說你們已經是每年都有給他們家屬賠償的資料有哪一些沒有做到有哪一些做到的我希望就是完整的資料給我可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17724.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17750.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
非常謝謝委員關心但會後我們會把就是針對剛才提到外國人跟本國人他給付權益是相同那的確我們在這幾年的確也有外國人就像包含移工他們會來申請給付的一個給付請領狀況這一部分我們會提供給委員做參考那另外這邊做一個補充說明就是說我們現在為了也考量到說相關的移工可能會有語言上面的一個問題所以我們現在已經在網路上我們有建構四國語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17750.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17751.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17775.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17793.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
所以這個部分我們希望我們這個部長上任的時候因為上一次我們的部長有答應說要怎麼樣去研議把這件事情因為你看我們 職災的部分是強制的保險對那是沒有納入勞保我們是家用的沒有勞保是自願的 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17794.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17815.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
不是這個根治院沒有家事移工目前為止目前為止是他們沒有就是沒有健保健保有勞保沒有像我們之前就是地震還有水災有移工因為照顧阿公阿嬤他用他的身體來去擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17816.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17818.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
公務及基金預算：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17848.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17851.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
謝謝主席。我們還是有請洪部長。好,洪部長請。黃委員好。部長好。今天跟您就教一個基金四個價的問題。第一個就是有關於從早上到現在大家都非常關心有關於這個就業安定基金好像被用得不是很適當。 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17874.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17892.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
部份的項目。 是。 所以這份部長應該會很想要做一些改革嘛。 那大家也提了很多的意見給部長做參考。 當初也希望在一個月裡面能夠提出適當的這些把關機制。 那這邊可不可以再請部長再稍微做一些說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17892.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17920.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
好跟外人在做說明其實因為這部分現在大家都眾所注目那我們其實在檢視的目前包括這個收支管理辦法那也包括目前整個基金管理會的運作以後其實蠻多專家或者過去曾經參加過這個管理會的一些成員都有提醒說其實可能要在這個監理的功能上面再多做強化第一個是把這個管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17921.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17940.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
多做監理這是第一件事情第二個事情是我們現在其實看到在這個這個收支管理辦法裡面他的職用有所謂12項那這裡面是有一些項目可能在這個項目的動之上面要再多可能要再多做一些限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17941.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17942.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17966.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17981.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
有提到我們怎麼樣可以讓這個基金的運作在該可以揭露的部分在該揭露的部分能夠更加的透明那這幾個方向其實我想我們都會在接下來這幾個禮拜裡面來針對這部分再做一些演商 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17982.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
18009.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
好讓國人很安心讓說勞工朋友很安心的知道說我們這些就業安定基金其實是會越來越能夠符合大家的期待跟需求那這部分就先謝謝部長的說明再來就是有關於幾個價的問題我們也知道賴總統在競選的期間裡面就承諾要打造這個性別平權支持育兒的這個職場工作環境要能夠越來越符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
18010.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
18032.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
需求,我們也看到其實根據這個111年,這個調查是4年會做一次,衛福部在111年所公告的這個調查結果裡面兒童跟少年生活狀況的調查報告發現學齡的兒童父母工作狀況雙薪家庭佔了四分之三,這個當然會包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
18033.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
18061.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
很多的勞工朋友還有我們的公務員的這些同仁們都會有這樣的困擾或者是這樣的需求那這個需求裡面我們發現最近可能部長會很關心有關於腸病毒對勞工造成的影響那我們也看到的確在12月初就有媒體記者告訴大家說父母要請假真的不夠非常的不容易那臨時托育的時候呢這個保姆會又非常非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
18062.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
18081.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
而且量好像也不是太夠齁那這部分目前勞動部有沒有什麼解方可以協助好那跟王偉說明其實這部分其實現在已經有一個事辦的計畫就是針對彈性運價的部分在小規模的事辦那一些比較資源性的企業已經開始事辦那我們會來趕快來檢視事辦的經驗齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
18085.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
18101.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
那第一個是在示範經驗上面怎麼回饋到接下來假設要擴大實施的時候這些經驗能夠做在在針對這個方案的內容再做一些修訂這是第一個第二個事情是我們其實現在這段時間也做了一些相關的統計這統計裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
18103.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
18127.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
有些企業表達他們願意來進行彈性運驗彈性運驗這樣子的措施但有一些確實他們現在還是比較保留那我們持續的來跟這些比較保留的企業來做溝通或者是拿成相對成功的經驗來跟他們溝通因為我們會也希望能讓他知道說其實如果可以彈性運驗可能會對於未來他包括這人員的流動可能也可能不會這麼多這個所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
18130.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
18146.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
可能在職的這個女性或在職的這個父母他會為了要照顧小孩而必須離職那這部分我們願意來跟他們做更多的溝通那希望能夠趕快往這個談心運價這個方向尤其照顧不離這方向下一個階段來往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
18146.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
18147.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算．僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
18177.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18202.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
婚姻年齡的時候離職率相對比較高因為限於孕育假不足以因應家長的育兒需求孕育假這個彈性化是國際的趨勢方面各種方面的需求我們希望透過再過來也麻煩黃部長能不能針對這方面也多所琢磨有關於彈性孕育假的部分這個彈性孕育假或照顧不離職會是我們工作裡面重點中國的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18203.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
18230.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
好,我想非常多的勞工非常期待,尤其是在這個部分裡面。那再過來就是有關於產價,因為目前民間團體跟我們的委員也共同召開記者會呼籲說,修法能夠將很多的價,包括產價、配產價等等的能夠把它整合在一起,而不是分段化的去請價,所以就把它整合成為一個生產準備價。那這部分勞動部有沒有想法? |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
18231.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
18232.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
我相信這所有要準備懷孕的這些我們的婦女朋友們 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
18247.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
18273.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
就是可以讓他更不分性別然後更打破這中間的一些限制因為有時候如果說他產價要請幾次然後全面的是賠產或者是其他價都是分開切斷式的話相對就比較可惜如果他能夠充分運用的話對大家就更便宜來替臺灣製造更多的未來的這個主人翁最後一個就是有關於身心調適假 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
18275.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
18299.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
這個是在政策上賴總統也召開這個健康台灣推動委員會第二次會議裡面是請行政院來研議公務人員的身心調適價那個時候強調是公務人員那不知道下一個會議可能什麼時候會召開那在召開會議的時候部長有沒有希望也同時把勞工適用的議題也能夠一起納進來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
18303.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
18330.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
那個跟網友說沒有其實我完全可以同理關於身心調適下的這樣子的需求而且現在有很多的勞工其實也表達對這部分他他有他的需求那我們我想我們會盡快來評估這方面在用在勞工上面的可行性但確實在用在勞工身上他其實涉及到牽涉到層面可能更廣所以這些這些各種因素我就想我們會有我們願意來做這這方面的評估是 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
18332.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
18346.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
了解所以不管是從小部分啊或者是比較特別的一些質別或者是相關的特殊族群也可以先試著去處理看看希望相關的意見可以提供給部長的參考好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
18363.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
18365.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
好,我們下一位請楊耀武委員發言。好,謝謝主席。主席請一下紅部長。好,在馬上紅部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
18380.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
18409.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
部長好。部長您臨危受命大概就是首先要處理的就是霸凌案那看起來在公務部門的霸凌的情況也不僅限於勞動部那我個人覺得呢部長來接了以後最重要的任務跟使命就是各項基金的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
18411.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
18435.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
就安基金是這樣子啊就安基金其實對於勞動部管理的基金算起來算是冰山一角啊只要人沒有問題其實就安基金基本上比較不會有大的問題就安基金就是用途上現在的規定可能有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
18437.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18465.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
蓋掛規定那最主要呢就是主事者啊把他當成的心態主事者只要心態把他當成是最安全專用的款項就不會惹出這麼多的討論告示勞保勞保的問題非常大那部長也曾經在這個委員會待了4年 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18467.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18484.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
我想今天利用這個機會跟部長來聊一聊談一談勞保年改的問題。勞保的收支缺口其實是一年比一年大。政府撥補到今年已經第5年了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18486.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18513.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
撥補金額從每年的兩千億到每年的兩百億到每年的一千三百億等於佔了勞動部公務預算的四成有學者精算在任何費率都不變化的情況下到2030年啊也就是洪部長假如像許民春是一個長命的部長你就會遇得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18514.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18542.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
先不要笑我這個是很嚴肅2030年勞保缺口會突破3000億3000億是什麼概念呢3000億就是你勞動部明年一整年的公務預算那我幾個問題請教部長第一就是本席已經把政府擔負最終支付責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18543.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18547.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
的修法條文已經提案了。部長贊不贊成? |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18549.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18576.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
跟姚委員報告齁現在政策上面就是政府在負追蹤支付責任對追蹤負責任政策上就是對呃不管修法立有修法跟沒修法現在都是我們的政策就是這樣可是政策會隨著會隨著欸政黨改變對所以具體明文的話部長的態度是什麼樣呃我我自己覺得可以正向的討論好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18579.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18601.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
就是為什麼我對於這一項立法提案非常的重視是因為事關超過一千萬的勞工的生活安定啊不只就業安定啊生活也要安定啊每天勞保都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18604.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18618.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
每隔一段時間就有人出來市警勞保快要倒了所以我們我覺得還是要具體的立法比較好那我再問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18621.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18637.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
你認為撥補是勞保改革的唯一方式嗎?撥補是各種維持基金水位的方法之一。那除了這個以外部長覺得有什麼改革方向? |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18637.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18659.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
其實這幾年在勞保基金我們的包括我們很多的投資上面的效益其實也是蠻好的那也包括在納保或者是給付上面的審核這幾個部分其實這幾年我們都有在做一些精進所以這些不同的做法裡面其實我不會去說勞保基金沒有危機可是也讓這個勞保基金目前的這個所 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18661.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18683.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
所他所存呃存量的這個水位其實確實有在提高那各種做法我們都不會放棄好部長覺得費率調整調高你贊不贊成呃目前不管費率調整啊或砍幾副目前在政治上面我們都還沒有考慮到這個砍幾副的部分欸本席以為 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18685.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18712.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
一律不可因為現在的勞保年金的平均支付繳在台北市來看已經快要落比生活平庸線來低了所以砍年金是絕對不可行本席甚至於還想要要求看看怎麼怎麼把通貨膨脹係數一起納入納入納入年金的給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18714.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18740.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
所以函年金是不可能啦那調整費率你也不考慮目前還沒有那退休年齡勒?強制退休年齡也就是延後退休根委員報告現在是這個是誰?保險司的市長現在我們本來從98年14年金開始我們就踩逐步提高嘛那今年113年就是64歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18743.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18753.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
那到115年的時候就停了嘛65歲就停了嘛我現在意思就是說會不會再延後你們的政策怎麼樣政策是市長講還是部長講 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18756.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18775.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
跟現在目前確實我們在這做法裡面就是撥補然後希望能夠再提高投資的效益跟剛才說的納保跟幾副相關的 投資的效益啊那我那我直接直接直接跟跟部長談一下投資效益過去這5年啊108年到112年臺灣的加錢指數 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18781.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18794.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
不算殖利率還原喔。就是每年平均3%的殖利率還原不算。家權指數增加了13%。勞保基金的受益 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18795.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18811.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
是7.5%勞退薪制啊就是你們很常會發新聞稿或者是媒體經常披露的每個帳戶可以領多少錢才加減指數的不到一半啊6.5啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18814.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18834.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
那部長很顯然的就是其他的改革面向全部不做考慮那要談基金的運作效應效率我剛剛已經把數據給部長你覺得這樣子的效率好嗎我現在不是說我能夠了解我先講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18835.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18856.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我可以理解基金的管理因為涉及太多面向所以必須要比較保守這個我確實在一些項目上面我們沒有辦法這麼靈活可是呢從另外一個角度看就基金基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18858.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18883.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
相對於一般的投資大眾是比較沒有壓力的投資者。懂我意思嗎?我覺得你們會不會太過保守?或者是說因為時間的關係我不大想佔用太多時間相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18888.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18916.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
我會持續的跟部長座談我就是今天就要求部長回去檢討看看看看有沒有因為部長剛剛的說明就是整個勞保改革大概你所想要改的就只有增加基金的運作效率那你怎麼去精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18918.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18921.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18938.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18953.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
這是因為這涉及到很多這個投資到這個納保納保人的這個相關的權益。不過是這樣子啊。我知道你們要小心啊。不過我跟我最後跟部長溝通的觀念就民進黨執政以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18956 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18968.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
經常呼籲社會大眾投資人要安心相關單位也經常對臺灣的民眾做宣示整體經濟發展審慎樂觀同一個政府裡面其他的單位一直看好臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18983.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
19008.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那作為執政的一部分的勞動部為什麼這麼不相信這個問題部長可以下一次再回答好謝謝部長謝謝主席非常謝謝楊耀委員的發言謝謝部長下一位委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在請下一位黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
19017.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
19041.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
謝謝主席來有請部長來請部長畫面好部長好第一個事情是說為了要搞清楚前部長許明春花了300多萬去辦個的演唱會錢到底從哪裡來然後我拜託我們的勞動部的同仁我在11月25號發文請他們提供總共有三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
19042.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
19067.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
廣告媒體宣傳費用的案子我沒有請勞動部的同仁做任何多的事情我只有拜託一件事情拜託的是把這個結案報告交給我我只有請他們給我結案報告我11月25號一直跟他們要我辦公室的同仁一直跟勞動部的同仁溝通到12月9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
19068.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
19091.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
我才拿到,有需要這麼久嗎?部長可不可以拜託勞動部的同仁,如果我今天要勞動部的同仁做新的分析、做新的統計、做新的工作這樣的時間我可以接受,但我只是請他們把他們早就拿到的驗收報告轉交給我,可以不要拖這麼久嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
19093.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
19095.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
那個畫面你指的應該是驗收報告啊,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
19095.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
19098.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
是!這個早午就有電子檔啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
19098.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
19117.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
就我知道應該是已經提供了。對啊!12月9號才提供啊!12月9號才提供啊!這樣子壓時間的意義在哪裡?我老實講啊,我不是很清楚。壓縮我們整個閱讀的時間,我到今天早上才拿的,我的到今天早上才拿到這個報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
19119.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
19147.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
今天要選答我到今天早上才拿到這個報告我簡單的來看就安定基金媒體業務宣傳費用我們從過去這幾年看一億一千九百六十八萬一億四千八百多萬一億七千多萬兩億七千多萬一路跌高啊我非常好奇啊以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
19148.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
19161.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
除了300多萬被署名村拿去開演唱會以外錢到底怎麼花的就安定基金是不是應該這樣花因為我最近真的收到太多申訴的電話有很多家庭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
19168.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
19196.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
他們家裡需要找移工來幫忙每個月省吃減用再繳就業安定基金就有錢怎麼花的來我先代部長看一下過去這些錢怎麼花的您開始了解了嗎有我有跟業務單位有來了解好來你有了解來我們先來看2022年報給民視的一支八分鐘的飲袋花一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
19197.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
19225.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
部長你覺得妥適嗎?一支八分鐘的飲袋花一千萬部長你覺得妥適嗎?我沒有要壓低齁這些辛苦的演藝同仁他們的薪資啊但我嚴重懷疑啊有多少錢是掉到他們的口袋裡啊一支袋子花一千萬八分鐘的袋子 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
19227.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
19243.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
適合嗎?不是一千萬,這個片子是六百多萬。這個片子是六百多萬,還有其他的餒。你講的是那個本身的拍攝費嘛。整個加起來的project不是一千萬嗎?我有說錯嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
19249.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
19275.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
第一個我是要先說剛剛我們市長其實在講當然是指說這個片子本身的製作費用啦對不對製作費用600多萬嘛好來提到行銷那我們就來看行銷嘛對不起我一樣一樣來啦YT看13萬次喔看13萬次留言只有19折部長你知道這代表什麼意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
19276.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
19289.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我不是專家任何有在YT上面看影帶的看13萬次如果留言只有19折代表什麼這個量全部都是用廣告衝起來的下廣告把它衝起來的這一看就知道了嘛要不要一支影帶13萬次觀看只有19個留言 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
19301.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
19311.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
這個量是虛的但更讓我震驚的是什麼更讓我震驚的在報表上面YT的廣告費下了101萬在YT上面下101萬元的廣告結果觀看次數只有13萬次真的有下101萬元的廣告嗎還是福報 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
19326.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
19339.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
我不相信啊你一字帶子拍的再爛你在YT上面下了101萬的廣告結果觀看次數只有13萬次19個留言啊這怎麼執行的這怎麼做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
19347.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
19374.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
這不是只有檢討而已啊這不是只有檢討而已啊拜託請負責執行的民事文化事業股份有限公司好好地跟勞動部解釋為什麼下101萬的廣告觀看次數只有13萬次下廣告的評單交出來是不是真的有下101萬的廣告是不是真的有下100萬的廣告否則觀看次數怎麼會只有13萬次 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
19378.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
19403.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
我今天要要求勞動部的是過去這幾年所有這些廣告文宣支出這些驗收報告你們如果有花時間看你不可能這麼離譜的報告可以驗收通過我再說一次你如果有花時間看你不可能這麼離譜的驗收報告你有辦法讓他驗收過 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
19407.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
19414.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
我早上忙得不得了我同仁跟我講報告今天早上還交來我很快的速度看過去啊我看的是瞠目結舌啊一支八分鐘的影帶製作家廣告一千萬下一百萬YT的廣告FB的廣告下二十萬結果觀看次數啊完全不等比例除了這個以外還有什麼來我再帶部長看 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
19437.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
19458.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
公益路跑形象宣傳形象拍攝文宣我看這個公益路跑這個宣傳形象拍攝文宣我看了這個名字取得很好聽啊我趕快裡面看什麼看原來這個執行計畫只有一件事啊就幫我們的阿村部長拍沙龍照沒有別的了就幫我們的阿村部長拍沙龍照沒有別的了 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
19464.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
19467.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
就業安定基金可以這樣花嗎?請教部長。跟華源說明我沒有辦法接受。你也沒有辦法接受嘛。好來我們再往下看。在勞動部的會議室辦記者會要37.9萬。我一天到晚在開記者會的人啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
19489.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
19505.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
我隨便租一個會議室啊開一場記者會要花38萬我那時候看到這個金額我嚇一跳我想說是去什麼大飯店啊租大廳啊設廠有燈光音響設備開一場記者會38萬結果是要勞動部的會議室辦記者會一場記者會要38萬就業安定基金可以這樣花嗎請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
19518.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
19525.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
就我所知這場當然你還有包括過明星的邀請這明星的參與跟邀請的部分有包括在這裡面嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
19528.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19550.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
就把它寫上去嘛!因為我看到的總表是什麼?我看到的總表是只有一個Long-Sum的金額跟委員報告因為當天我們特別請了那個許富凱那個歌手因為他是算在這歌手是比較價錢我們看你們沒有寫我們再來給他補充上去花多少錢?對嘛!國會給你們要就是要細項嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19557.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19562.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
你寫那麼粗一場38萬的記者會值得花這樣的錢嗎?值得花這樣的錢嗎?請教部長錢可以這樣花嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19570.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19597.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
那個跟黃偉報告現在確實在救安基金整體的支用的內容上面我們已經請同仁在做檢討了那我確實看到了一些其實不管是他支用的這個預算的金額或者是他相關開出來的規格上面我絕對會有一些地方會讓大家覺得這個社會觀感不好的地方我這樣講這不是只有社會觀感不好這個是會讓納稅人憤怒的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19600.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19610.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
這是他要納稅的憤怒的東西啊年代一千萬三立一千萬民視一千萬這是我們政府跟媒體的關係你如果裡面的內容很充實 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19620.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19646.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
可能或許您所講的觀感不好當內容長成這個樣子的時候恐怕不是內容觀感不好就可以解釋的你說勞動部要檢討沒有關係啊檢討好好檢討檢討不要只有空話我具體請教部長你要往前檢討幾年每一個年度的檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19647.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19667.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
有沒有人要移檢察院有沒有人要移檢調這種密度的檢討勞動部需要多久我們現在主要是針對這個在機制面如果有漏洞的部分我講的不是機制面啦不好意思我講的是執行面啦因為我這樣說好了啦這種結案報告如果是我驗收我不會讓他過 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19674.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19685.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
我不會讓他過但勞動部的標準可能不一樣我要檢討的是這個事情啊不是只有機制面的事情啊前面錢落花就算了喔所以只檢討機制面是怎麼樣前面錢落花就算了嘛當然不是那如果當然不是的話所以我才具體的請教你嘛檢討不要只有空話嘛你要檢討幾年需要多久給大家一個時間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19704.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19705.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
給大家一個時間嘛我們三個月的時間三個月的時間喔需要三個月的時間才檢討得出來要檢討幾年2023年2022年2021年要檢討幾年要三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19729.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19752.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
我們減少前後五年的時間。前後五年?三個月的時間?好!三個月的時間。第一個,請勞動部會後提供資料。這個YT的廣告,下一百萬的憑證,請交出來。請交出來。太違反常識了。YT下了一百萬的廣告,觀看次數只有13萬次。我必須要老實講啊,書難想像。 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19757.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19773.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
是真的下了一百萬還是有人灌水一樣FB的廣告下了多少錢把憑證交出來第三個請勞動部去問許明春阿他的殺龍罩憑什麼納稅的買單部長剛剛不是也沒辦法接受嗎問一下許明春阿他的殺龍罩為什麼納稅的買單錢要不要繳回來可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19793.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19806.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
我們會來問徐前部長。好!謝謝黃國昌委員的發言。謝謝部長。我們下一位請張祺改文發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19826.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19829.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
請部長部長我們的勞工啊爆肝工作超時工作現在最新的資料嘛全亞洲第二超的 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19853.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19869.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
我們今天要想辦法來保護我們勞工的肝那保護之前我先問你一個問題你知道今天有不少的勞工團體在勞動部前面靜坐抗議甚至劫持嗎有看到有看到相關的訊息你已經看過他們了嗎還沒還沒看過他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19874.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19892.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
所以這些很多應該都是你認識的朋友嗎?桃園市產業總工會整個工會以前都是跟著你一起去抗爭的,對不對?應該是很多是老朋友那你現在變成是他們抗爭的對象你心裡面有些感受?不一樣的感覺?我的工作就是把大家關心的事情給做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19894.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19919.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
那你還沒去看他們什麼時候去看他們我想我們當然會關心你會不會去看他們我們會關心你知道他們要結實多久嗎我們會關心會關心對你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎知道當然什麼訴求當然他們主要針對的是救安基金目前致用的狀況嘿對他們抗議你齁說你現在只有轉達意見來我給你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19925.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19950.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
他的意思其實跟我今天問的一樣嘛你紅委員變成紅部長你是不會倒退路以前你很勇敢去捍衛你的主張啊今天你的朋友來抗議你現在勞團抗議是這一點他說啊你為什麼面對勞工政策永遠是轉達意見永遠都是其他單位的責任他們舉了三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
19953.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
19966.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
國定假日,你說是內建部的問題公務金管勞動問題你就是考試院管的事情連勞保年金給戶要不要砍也就是是不是要比照何沛山部長講的任內不會砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
19968.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
19986.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
還是要倒退?你說你目前沒有規劃﹖現在當然不會砍啊!當然不會砍啊!我知道!我知道!我說你的回答你沒發現都很空?對!這當然不會砍啊!不會砍!那前面是不是都很空?其實現在不是只有勞動團體來抗議啊!不是勞工團體來抗議啊!我的感覺也是這樣啊!我想要說你現在倒退路!我上禮拜問你勞動部長應該是對於吹哨者保護法 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
19991.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
20005.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
無法集齊,這是堅定的捍衛啊。 這個保護法是保護勞工也保護公務員啊。 我上禮拜問你,你連表態都不敢啊。 這個,張委員,最大的保護法確實它是在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
20007.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
20035.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
施法委員會裡面就我所知他是在施法委員會裡面那我現在的工作是勞動部長那剛剛這邊列的幾項議題一些議題他本身現在法規的主管機關是在其他部會那所以我的工作我當然是要把勞工的想法向這一個法規的主責的部會來清楚的表達所以你是一個支持製造者保護法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
20037.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
20037.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
勞動部部長嗎?還是一個反對?還是一個悶不吭聲的勞動部長?那個張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
20043.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
20043.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
這不是我勞動部的權責啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
20070.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
20090.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
是一個支持社會保護法的部長嗎?還是反對?我們當然我自己我當然是比方說現在勞動部裡面有各個申訴的案件我們當然要來保護勞動部內這些申訴案件的人不管是保密也好或者是要保護他相關的權利在勞動部內的部分我當然要盡量做嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
20091.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
20094.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
這是在我的權責下的,我應該把它做好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
20094.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
20098.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
對嘛,被霸凌者、吹哨者也當然要保護啊,這就大聲講啊,為什麼閃? |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
20098.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
20118.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
對,所以我現在說的意思是說,勞動部內假設有這些申訴者跟陳情人的話,他們提出相關的意見,我當然要保護,包括保密也好,或者是他們相關的權益的保護,這部分在我的部內,我當然要盡量做嘛。 其他部會如果有碰到這個問題,你應該也要支持吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
20119.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
20148.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
包括勞工啊 社會保護法保護的全體的勞工不是跟你勞動部的勞工而已啊 是所以我現在說我在勞動部下的部份 你都要去要有好的那個催促者保護法去保護啊 我不要曝光啊我在我勞動部下的當然我要盡量做啊好來我直接問你啦 好來我勞工的話問你 國定假日其實我們勞工為什麼全亞洲第二超第一個是工時 工時太長嘛 第二個是國定假日7天 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
20149.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
20171.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
被你民進黨把他砍掉了嘛 對不對你支持你居然沒有人回答說你要去問內政部啊你機器把那個七天找回來嗎跟趙遠說明我當然支持要逐步降低勞工在工時上面的負擔我當然支持降低工時上的負擔那降低工時負擔有很多不同的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
20173.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
20192.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
那關於國定假日的議題我說國定假日的議題確實它法規的主責是在內政部主責你要不要去爭取讓勞工多休幾天假或者你的勞動部的公務員可以多趙委員法規的主責在其他部會我們當然願意來反映勞工的心聲跟勞工的期望像 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
20193.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
20201.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
這個主責的部會來反映,我們當然願意嘛。 所以,主責單位是內政部,那你更重要是後面這句話嘛。你是願意去爭取的嘛,行不行? |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
20201.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
20216.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
我們當然願意來反映喔。 對啊。 來反映勞工﹐我們當然願意反映勞工的想法跟勞工的心聲,這當然我們願意來反映喔。 對啊。 你一開始這樣談,那為勞工就不會了,今天就不會坐在那邊,坐在那邊要節食100個小時啦。 你要去看他們,他們會問張其南一樣問的問題嘛。 對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
20219.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
20247.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
所以我剛才說的是說我說確實這裡面會有幾個議題他牽涉到的是包括法規的主管在其他部會那我們能做的是把勞工的期待該反映的要反映對所以柏定你現在去看節食抗議100個小時這些勞工團體的這個朋友他問你說國定假日你要去挑釁該管對不對因為工時太長嘛他們要爭取這7天的假嘛你要怎麼回答他你要回答他說你要回答第一個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
20248.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
20271.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
是內政部主管的嗎?還是回答你剛跟我的對話?你會支持幫他們爭取?我我我我從來沒有說這只是內政部的事情我的意思是說我們這這個法規的主管在其他部會我們該做的事情是反映嘛所以你會反映嗎?當然啊而且這民眾要看的是你的態度不是跟人家反映而已啊你不是你又不是接線聲哥啊現在民眾要看以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
20273.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
20298.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
紅委員是有態度的、有方法的﹖現在不一定沒有方法、沒有態度的﹖你不進來這邊你都好像吸引故事在講空話嗎?關於工時的問題我們也希望能夠具體要降低工時所以有些部分在我自己的部內的工作我能夠做的部分包括是我們怎麼來協助勞資雙方建立一個更好的協商的機制讓更多的工會有辦法簽到比方說像團體協約因為團體協約是可以憂於法規的 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
20302.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
20304.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
20326.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
20352.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
低薪也是我們一直以來要面對的問題所以包括像基本工資等等的調薪都是希望讓這個薪資的部分希望可以逐步的來提高來減少可能有部分的勞工他會因為他的收入過低所以他自己被迫必須要去加班來增加收入的狀況這在我們的工作裡面我們能做的部分我們都會盡力來做這些事情都是在面對大家現在講到的不管過勞的問題或者是工時過長的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
20356.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
20380.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
這是有很多該做的做法。 對,所以我問你,不是只有立委在問你嘛,就是等一下你說你回去看你的,在你樓下要節食,不是抗議而已喔,節食100個小時,抗議的,要下多大的捷薪才節食100個小時,是有危險的捏。他問你的問題,他已經跟你講了,很直接,國定假日要增加,因為被民進黨拿走了7天嘛,你不能夠回答只有內政部問題,你要怎麼回答他就是剛講的嘛,對不對。公務的勞動問題,你剛你說科技主管啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
20386.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
20405.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
那你要表達,要表達你的意見啊,你勞動部也有,你還是勞動的主管機關欸。 那個讓張仁,我其實有說明,包括像現在大家講到這個公務員的霸凌防制的問題,就我們的,像我們的職安署其實有相關的,不管不管是他的不法侵害, |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
20405.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
20422.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
或是霸凌相關專業上面去研討這部分的專業我們當然也會把我們這相關的專業來提供給像考試院如果他要訂定保護相關的規範的話這部分當然是我們必須做的事情我覺得有個地方民眾也一直都很有反應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
20423.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
20444.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
你這個專法都要到下個會期才要才訂專法或者是訂一個專章我跟你講臺灣民眾黨這幾天都要提專法了你會覺得你速度速度有夠慢有夠慢的嗎那個張委員我要我其實其實這一個多禮拜我們都在跟相關的專家學者在討論坦白說這個專法的訂定尤其是在定義上面跟機制上面真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
20445.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
20463.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
不是一件已經有很多跡象的事情。 人民要看到一個有擔當、有態度、有解決方法的部會首長。 不是只有在那邊閃來閃去一直在推。 沒有在閃來閃去。 這些都是我們必須面對的問題。 人民會公平的。 來。 這些都是我們要面對跟解決的問題。 因為時間比較有限我問一下。 那現在是亞洲第二超嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
20465.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
20493.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
臺灣去年的總工時現在破兩千啊國際的這個勞工組織不要講過啊一個禮拜如果工作超過五十五點鐘你的那個心臟血管的疾病風險就增加了那現在臺灣啊2023總工時超過兩千個小時2020小時僅次於新加坡未及亞洲第二現在更嚴重其實是後面這幾個月我們臺灣啊有二十萬人一個禮拜工作時間超過的六點鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
20494.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
20494.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
一個禮拜超過60小時欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
20507.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
20535.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
你現在重責大任,怎麼去把工時把它降下來?跟趙委員說明,剛剛其實針對工時降低的問題,其實就像我們剛才說的,包括勞資協商希望能夠簽訂更多的團體、協約,這部分我們會請我們相關的司署來全力的協助。降低啦,你有簽著他兩個嘛,我們剛才在講的啊,你的假期該給他,你要假期要給他嘛,有些國家都已經開始有週休三日啦,啊電話在這問題當然低薪嘛,你薪水就是因為低啊,所以你還可以一直工作啊,所以把薪水抬高, |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
20535.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
20562.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
該給的價值要給甚至說就算是要推動：這裡面可能有很多不同的策略那我們都會在我們可以做的範圍來經營來做最後問一個這個這個就是你們內部的這個不信離開我們的這個無信的這個工程師列記管他們好幾大部分的時間都是早上五六點去上班嗎?這個叫做假打卡增加班對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
20563.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
20587.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
你有沒有去詳細調查過這個狀況?有,我們有去了解。所以你的調查報告,你們給我們的調查報告裡面會有這一塊?我們確實有看到無薪公務員,但是這當然有些關於調查內容的細節可能我們不便現在在這邊講,我到時候會通過公報。會有這一塊嗎?會有針對無薪公務員在生前的狀況。那我具體的要求,我的調查報告要看到這一個,因為真的很可憐。而且第二個,這可能不是只有他一個人的現象吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
20588.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
20590.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
20615.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
20643.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
關於無姓公務員他在生前他經歷了什麼狀況我想這是我們這一次調查非常非常重要的重點對你上次還特別跟我講啊你說一個禮拜內就是這個禮拜會提出來嘛對不對內容還全部上網啊是了解這個沒有什麼機密而且要接受前面這個檢驗當然所以我將具體的要求第一個無姓公務員假打卡真上班這個事情要非常明確第二個我要更進一步要求你要前面清查勞動部這個非常惡劣的這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
20644.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
20652.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
一方面讓大家知道以前是出了什麼問題,更重要的以後不要讓我們勞動部的工作同仁已經那麼辛苦在工作了,假打卡真上班。 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
20663.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
20691.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
翁曉琳委員、翁曉琳委員不在下一位鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員不在下一位高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在下一位王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員不在下一位張雅琳委員、張雅琳委員、張雅琳委員不在下一位葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在下一位劉建國委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
20692.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
20694.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
劉委員發言。請劉委員。好,謝謝主席。這是變場喔。這是變場是給身高的比較高委員好用,不是大聲用的。這個要列入紀錄。這是我建議的。院會那個也是我建議的。你看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
20721.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
20735.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
遭到我們比較高人多久的時間。好,謝謝主席,要請部長。好,請部長。六人好。部長好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
20736.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
20764.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
部長辛苦了齁那要在質詢前齁我先向委員會報告有關於這個EAP的員工協助方案各位可以看一下這個相關的一些資料齁台灣對於EAP的推廣是依據勞動部的公開資料最早可以追溯到1950年到1980年那30個年代啦齁當時大概是一個觀念與這個處刑的一個建立齁然後在1994年勞委會時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
20766.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
20780.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
台灣的員工協助方案的具體才來成型。從2009年一直到2013年勞動部開始推動員工協助方案並在2014年起每兩年針對民間企業舉辦相關的表揚。同時在2015年 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
20788.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
20813.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
勞動部也喊請行政院、辦部、行政院所屬及帝王主管機關推動員工協助方案的成效力的評估計畫。所以這個EAP的員工協助方案不是這幾年才突然冒出的東西。也這陣子所有出租單位每一個都喊要啟動員工協助方案也證實這個不是一個非常不重要的事情。那 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
20815.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
20836.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
平常沒有人重視,等到出事情才千瘡百孔。我要在這邊特別提醒,然後也回顧一下,在之前我在審查立法院的預算,立法院本院的預算的時候,我在質疑說為什麼預算書沒有員工協助方案。當時立法院對我的答覆是這樣,醫護是有開精神科門診的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
20839.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
20847.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
這是立法院本院對我的答覆,這個都有會議紀錄基本上就是目前公部門也就是當時這個公部門對這個EAP的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
20849.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
20875.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
那勞動部推這個EAP到現在已經十幾年過去如果今天連勞動部在執行上都做了亂七八糟那難怪立法院敢這麼回答嘛這醫護是有精神科的這個門診所以我要請部長就上週在諮詢在諮詢這個EAP的員工協助方的時候要求勞動部提一個初步的一個改善計畫給委員會做參考我不曉得這個報告部長有沒有看過你當過立委所以這個報告兩頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
20877.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
20883.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
你覺得這樣及格嗎?我是請問部部長。好。你還沒有看過? |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
20884.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
20908.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
我有看,我有看過一下,但是送出去我覺得應該是不夠的。 不夠格,好。那我們就不要對這個報告再討論了,因為就覺得不夠格,就不需要討論,讓大家彼此時間嘛。但是這個報告中,他還是有提到一段,我覺得還是有抓到問題,這個是要給予肯定的,就是要擴增諮商的時數。來賓部,員工的時數目前是每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
20909.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
20923.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
每個人一年五次一年五次然後一次時間是60分鐘然後我要請教部長如果到114年的員工協助方案一個人可以增加到幾次還是必須要依照情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
20925.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
20944.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
簡單回應我覺得很好各位我其實已經有跟部內指示了第一個現在看起來確實在預算不當時預算編列的時候經費是相對比較有限的但如果有因為這個預算不足的部分我們會在部內再找經費的資源來做補助會往上調看會這是第一點第二點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
20948.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
20978.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
我覺得重點是我們要怎麼讓這個EAP的基金設計得更好用因為有一種可能是因為設計得不夠完善所以變成想要用的人不多看起來需求就不大用的經費就不多所以重點是怎麼把它設計得更實用上面更加的完善那所以不能不要讓說因為是你使用設計得不好用或者是你經費預算的上限讓員工想要使用的時候遇到限制這是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
20978.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
20991.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
我就是我們覺得這都要把它打開的事情對所以所以部長已經在打呼我等一下問的問題了嗎那我們就直接聊當進入到重點嗎先來講就是說那你到底要怎麼設計你依據什麼設計怎麼設計多久時間可以設計出來能不能簡單打呼我 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
20994.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
21022.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
那個跟我覺得我們對於這個機制的操作的使用可不可以給我們多一點時間當然當然當然當然可不可以給我們一個月的時間可以啊可以啊那讓我們有一個月的時間來做這部分機制的檢討這樣子對那如果有因為預算不夠的部分我們會來找錢來補充更多的經費所需部長這樣的一個態度就會讓我覺得比較安心那也不是比較基於在 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
21023.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
21052.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
在做這個事情的一個很重點式的一個回應我之前是針對司法院的員工的協助法案的時候在2022年也被我檢討過那當時司法院員工協助法案只局限給司法官用一年8次那後來就是因為坦白講就是有跟他ㄉㄧㄤ過所以他現在一體試用提高到12次那我現在講的也不是叫次數的問題是如果一個員工他在年初的時候就把5次用完了所以他就不能再用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
21053.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
21056.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
21081.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
21097.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
我只是在反映一件事情就是說當你知道有這樣的狀況的情況之下更慌論說如果真的有個員工他就有在年初就用了5次之後那反而你後面的機制要怎麼去銜接怎麼去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
21098.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
21116.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
我希望員工的協助方案的美意是當員工有狀況的時候我們是可以馬上接住嘛這個在上次的會議我也特別提到因為這個提醒我會請我們包括人事單位我們把這部分給考慮進去那如果他還需要更多的時數的使用的話那我們怎麼樣更多的來支持這樣好不好對 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
21117.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
21138.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
所以所以這一個評估這一個要要怎樣計算出來的方式我覺得他是要透過一個科學然後還是要透過透過一個是不是一個專家的會議大家一起來討論你跟我講一個月時間是你講的我覺得一個時間可能還不太夠你看嘛多少員工需要多少的量能服務怎樣的行業比 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
21139.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
21157.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
要怎樣,現在當然是討論勞動部啦齁,但勞動部還有相關的所屬的相關的機關都不一樣的狀況喔,而且員工的那個分配,協助方案的分配額都不一樣,那上次就講過不叫贅述,然後要著重,著重把這些員工的有什麼比較特殊性的一個協助的一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
21157.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
21159.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
21184.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
21211.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
是知道說部有在關心所屬單位有在關心他們確實有積極要協助他們我問你現在講的就意思是說不是用完就算了啦等於是如果使用這個資源之後那後續有沒有其他更多接軌到我們所需要後面更大幫助的機制這部分我們也希望把它給設計進去好不好但是你知道嗎這麼多年來沒有明確的指引跟辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
21214.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
21223.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
完全沒有欸有嗎?你們有訂指引嗎?我們有訂規定我們有訂我們勞動部即所屬機關的相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
21226.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
21246.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
是你們勞動部、部本部直接有?我們是依據行政院,行政院他的定班的一個法規規定。行政院怎麼會有一般的法規?你把行政院的法規拿出來看,你們怎麼依據那個法規來定?如果依據行政院的法規來定,那就真的很糟糕了。董事處處長講的應該是行政院整體EAP的規定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
21248.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
21275.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
我還是覺得這事要經過很嚴密的一個精算嘛 對不對所以我才想說部長不要說一個月啦我可以給你兩個月我甚至也可以給你三個月但是把這事做好嘛 對不對詳細的評估精算嘛把相關的指引辦法定的更明確更清楚嘛來不及要負起這個責任那我們會訂一個我們來訂一個內部的這個操作的指引好不好所以在整預算的時候我會給你凍結部分看你什麼時候訂的出來然後我們就來解凍好 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
21277.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
21287.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
這邊我先提醒這件事情因為我對這件事情絕對非常的在意跟care嘛齁那我再請教部長上週啦齁我在質詢的時候特別強調勞動部是回答我各所屬的錢費成大約在180萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
21290.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
21306.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
統一承包給張老師基金會嗎?目前是這樣。對。好。所以委員工大概是五百塊。那明年二、三、五、點、九啦吼。一百一十五年度會再增加。那陳副部長又講了如果N真的不夠還會再找相關預算來支持。是。好。謝謝。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
21307.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
21325.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
但是我還是要用一個實際數據來請教部長勞動部及所屬的職員加約聘僱共計1805人所以這1805人他確定能使用一年五次的這個員工協助方案那勞動部及所屬另外的1941的承攬人員怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
21329.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
21357.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
那個跟留言報告上禮拜其實我就請相關同仁來做一個檢討確實有發現其實我們目前設計的範疇只有限於我們正式的人員其實承攬的人員不在裡面但對我當勞動部長來說承攬人員也好或者是運用人員也好其實也都是勞動部非常重要的一份子所以我會希望要讓朝向是涵蓋全體勞動部下面的工作者都可以來做使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
21359.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
21383.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
對阿那如果你想要就是說部長你剛才這樣打我我覺得我聽起來倒還是很安慰啦齁但是另外一個角度那這樣你的五百塊就不夠了是嘿而且你看這個省超過超過百分之一百的這個預算比例喔所以我很清楚知道我們是應該是很有機會要來找經費來往上增加這個這個EAP的計畫的經費的支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
21386.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
21394.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
我再講一個數據啦齁 你看 你看我看看 比如說現在人員有75加月平估是180嘛 總共是255但是同時這個承攬人員就已經高達410人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
21399.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
21423.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
我們的承攬確實在分屬裡面承攬的人是比正式的人多很多那不只貴部貴署其他單位交通部經濟部等都這個問題非常嚴重所以如果勞動部願意把這個承攬人員都概括承受起來以身作者這是美式衣裝但是也應該要影響到其他的部會一併來做這樣處理不然這往後都是會問題一堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
21425.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
21443.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
我們願意帶頭來往這個方向做。好,謝謝。所以這個撐懶人員的員工協助方案就是我們用人的單位來處理的啦。應該是勞動部的立場就是這個樣子嘛。是,就是把原本只限於,原本確實只限於正式人員的部分,正式公務員的部分,然後我們希望來把它擴大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
21444.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
21456.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
好,那我希望是不是這樣啦,往後勞動部要函請各單位嘛,在訂定這個承攬企業的時候也必須要把這個提供員工協助方案列為要件之一,可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
21457.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
21459.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然!當然! |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
21486.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
21496.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
21510.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
21531.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
的規範,這個都必須要用一些更專業的更科學書記來做處理,來做研討,對不對?好,謝謝部長的回應了。好,謝謝,謝謝,謝謝。好,謝謝劉建國委員的發言,也謝謝部長跟副理同仁的回應。下一位,林楚嫣委員。林楚嫣委員。林楚嫣委員。林委員不在。 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
21536.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
21557.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
本日會議詢答全部結束。委員黃秀芳、翁曉琳、王宏威、張雅琳所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。現在做以下決定及決議。一、報告、說明及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
21563.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
21585.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
委員另有要求期限者從其所定。),三、中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管公務及基金預算以及財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心114年度預算書案另則其繼續審查本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
21617.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
21620.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
公務及基金預算：一、 |
| IVOD_ID |
16349 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16349 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-13 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-09T08:31:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-09T14:35:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |