| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60966d5ee37f1f3ec01fa85e71f641f6284a82e37f9ba35fd7734524cfaf11d21a15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-06T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
18421 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:59:59 - 19:07:00 |
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第11項規定．第12項規定．第13項規定． |
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報告全院委員會現在繼續開會今天下午分別審查考試院考試委員被提名人黃東益、伊萬納威之資格及是否事任相關事項現在先審查被提名人黃東益之資格相關事項請被提名人黃東益先生說明時間為10分鐘 |
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1890.99 |
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1917.897 |
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主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生大家午安感謝大院給我這個機會來介紹自己並說明對未來工作上的自我期許我生長在嘉義東石的一個小漁村分別在臺灣大學以及師範大學取得學士跟碩士學位之後很幸運可以到美國德州大學政府學系攻讀博士學位 |
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1919.198 |
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1942.518 |
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在1998年畢業回到國內先在師興大學行政管理學系後來轉到政治大學公共行政學系任教過去二十幾年來一直在公共行政學界服務由於地緣以及領域的關係在研究教學的同時也很幸運能夠持續接觸考試院以及其他政府機關的業務 |
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1944.568 |
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1954.019 |
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過去在學校開授的主要課程包括行政學、公共政策、研究方法、開放政府等等並且指導學生撰寫博碩式論文 |
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1955.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1981.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這些課程和學生的論文主題都直接或間接連結到文觀、體制、人力資源以及公共治理的理論跟實務除了教學在政治大學過去18年的服務過程也被教父許多大學行政服務的工作分別擔任過行政管理碩士學程執行長公共行政學系系主任以及社會科學院副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1983.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1994.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
服務學生跟同仁同時累積可貴的管理跟行政經驗在研究方面我主要投入在數位政府和民主行政的相關主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1995.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2018.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在數位政府方面﹐我曾經兩次擔任由早期行政院研考會﹐後來由國發會和數位發展部委託的數位治理研究中心的主任﹐帶領跨校的研究團隊執行數位治理相關的前瞻性研究﹐安排來自不同機關的公務人員﹐接受專業的培訓﹐並且持續進行國際交流﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2023.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2050.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
與數位治理的國際學術界和實務界連結在這個數位治理的研究主軸上面隨著人工智慧的發展最近我也曾經組成團隊和國發會合作嘗試在政策過程中導入深層式AI優化國家的政策前瞻以及決策機制目前也在執行有關於六個直轄市在不同業務部門如何引進人工智慧的研究計劃案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2051.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2079.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我另外一個研究領域聚焦在民主行政早期投入審議民主和公民參與的實作近年來協助地方政府推動參與式預算在這個研究領域我曾執行國科會的研究親自訪談來自不同政黨跟不同執政時期40餘位中央政府部會首長、副首長、主秘等政務官和高階文官並且把相關資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2080.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2105.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
分析集結出版專書讓學界及國人瞭解我國政黨輪替下政務官跟事務官互動的界面並提出實務的建議延續這個主題在另外一個研究裡面我分析三級機關首長任命的相關議題並且對於政府用人以及高階人力資源管理提出具體的建言 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2107.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2127.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
除了在學校的研究教學．二十餘年的學術生涯裡面．我持續協助文官制度規劃跟執行．多次參加不同考試的點式、命題．口試、月卷等等的工作．並且參與政府部門．各層級文官培訓的．課程規劃、教材編訂．還有授課 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2131.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2148.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這些課程除了傳授知識﹐也給我很好的機會解釋不同層級和不同領域的公務同仁﹐透過他們﹐我更貼近政府部門運作實況﹐並且發掘文官制度的核心問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2150.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2168.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
近年來我受邀擔任權序部法規會委員協助政策的規劃跟法案推動我同時也擔任考試院研究發展委員以及考權資料中心主任共同推動考試院的數位轉型跟資料治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2169.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2187.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
優化考選決策由於在研究方面的成果很幸運能夠長期受邀參與考試院文官制度期刊以及臺灣民主紀刊的核心編務工作熟悉文官制度及民主治理相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2188.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2199.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
前沿議題並且深入接觸到這些議題的專業社群跟人脈這些都是我在學術及實務界長期耕耘累積的資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2201.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2219.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這次很榮幸獲得總統提名．特別跟委門報告．未來如果有幸得到支持．擔任考試委員．我希望透過在學術界累積的．研究能量以及實務經驗．持續推動三個政策方向．第一個是在考選制度創新的議題． |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2220.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2248.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
考試院一直以來都有持續進行事務方面的變革也展現了可觀的成果例如考試的電腦化以及用人激光更深入參與考試業務未來除了傳統的考選機制之外可以嘗試更多元的選材方法特別是面對來自企業界對於人才的競爭應該在特定領域使用更有彈性的做法吸引人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2249.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2270.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
同時在資訊化、人工智慧逐漸普及的時代我們不只需要透過這些科技跟資料來提高決策品質繼續推動公平、透明及含榮的考選事務更需要應用新科技持續開發更多元的評估工具以彰目國家最需要的優質幹財 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2272.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2295.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第二個我要著力的方向是在文官培訓和發展的議題現行的公務員訓練課程在教學教法以及公平的評量都能夠與時俱進但與當代快速發展的科技運用、數位治理、跨域協作創新等新興的需求仍然存在落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2296.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2319.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
未來應該結合數位科技發展趨勢．跟現代化的需求．強化工人員科技及數位素養．還有跨域合作的能力．培養更貼近科技發展潮流．並且具有國際視野．跟創新力的文觀我要努力的第三個方向是有關於．人力資源管理變革 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2321.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2337.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
現行考機制度很難有效區別公務人員的績效表現講優太略功能比較不足常常引起考機形式化的批評對於機關效率的提升、功用有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2339.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2355.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
未來如果有機會擔任考試委員．我將積極推動考機制度的變革．以過去經驗為基礎．系統性去評估制度的優缺點．並且循序漸進地調整現有的制度． |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2357.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2379.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
確保公正評估員工表現．希望可以透過考機制度．來激勵員工發展跟創新．提升政府整體效能和服務品質總結來說．我希望能夠把多年．在數位制以及民主行政．累積的學術專業．還有長期參與政府業務的實務經驗． |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2386.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2410.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
貢獻給考試院持續精進文官制度的創新跟發展和其他來自不同領域的委員先進透過政策的整密規劃跟執行為我國政府打造一個高效能透明廉潔又具友善職場的公務團隊期盼委員們的支持與指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2417.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2428.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
謝謝黃貝提名人的說明現在進行委員詢問每一位委員詢答時間20分鐘才疑問疑答方式進行輪到詢問的委員如不在場視為棄權首先請楊委員求英詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2439.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2451.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝院會主席、江副院長、我們被提名人、新聞界的朋友以及各位同仁大家午安,仰求您發言首先邀請我們提名人請黃被提名人委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2460.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2482.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
提名良好剛剛聽到你的說明當中你似乎認為目前的樣態還有很多改進的空間提升的空間所以我們實質來討論也就是年金改革與退伍基金目前的年金改革已經在執行當中但是我們看到改了這一段時間除了信用破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2483.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2510.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
原先的約定他挑戰了但是改了之後更有財務壓力跟公平性的一個競爭在這樣情況之下你如何看待考試院在後續退伏基金管理跟政策的調整的角色你有什麼具體的建議你認為如何的能夠平衡整個年金的改革的永續性跟退休工人的基本保障請說說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2511.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2532.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝委員的提問我想這個我們這個退伏基金的這個運作還有我們整個退伏制度的運作已經從上次的改革到現在已經有五年了那據我的了解最近權序部這邊也針對過去執行的一些的績效提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2533.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2558.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
一切初步的報告那就我的了解就是目前我們這個退伍新制它是有完成了幾項的一個目標包括我們把這個原來可能在119年可能就破產的基金那能夠把它延長到140年那第二個是我們的負債也減少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2559.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2584.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
還有一個就是我們在基金的水位它也增加了當然這些都是目前看到的一些的成果據我的了解我們目前有一些我們的公務退休的同仁他們有提出這樣的一個呼籲是不是在從今年或者從去年開始就把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2585.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2599.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所得替代力的地卷是不是把它停掉我是覺得這個是大家可以討論但是就像委員剛剛所提到的我們需要顧慮到它的永續性還有公平性這個就是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2601.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2625.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
也就是從原先他好不容易為什麼當時他會選擇公務人員因為考公務人員沒有限制只要你條件夠你任何一個人條件夠都可以來考試他選擇這個目的很多人就希望他在退休之後可以得到一個安定安穩的生活但是改革了之後把原先的所得替代率他每一年逐年的來遞減要遞減1.5%這樣子對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2628.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2628.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2648.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2666.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
到中高年齡是2.8所以換句話說退休的人都是在這個中高年齡層裡頭那要怎麼樣去協助他們就誠如你剛才說的也就是說他是有討論的空間本席也提案應該要有信用人而物信不知其可 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2667.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2690.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
制度更是重要政府跟人民的信賴保護原則我想這是唯一民主真諦最重要的因此所得替代率在立法院現在有很多的討論我們似乎認為突然要每一年的遞減這對我們的公務人員、退休者來講是非常的不公平所以也希望未來你有機會你應該要去討論這樣子的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2694.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2713.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個方向也就是一定要保障公務人員退休者的基本生活同意嗎同意而且加注一個也就是我們現在中高年齡他的醫療支出是多因為在我們的整個平均移民不健康的平均移民裡頭是全世界最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2714.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2732.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
有達到8年在這樣的一個情況他的付出一定會更多所以包括了醫療支出的這個部分應該要納入在整體的一個考量才能夠真正的達到讓這個退休者得到一個安定安穩的生活你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2733.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2756.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我想我認同那當然我們要考慮到就是財務的永續性你認同那當然財務的永續性也就是看政府的能耐而不是只有取決於退休的公務人員來達到財務的一個完整性我想這不是一個正面的一個做法也請你三思接下來本期要請教考試院的工人跟改革有些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2757.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2764.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
主張要縮減甚至有主張要廢除為什麼會有這樣的現象你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2765.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2788.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我覺得可能是我們很多民眾也好或者是不同部門的朋友的誤解事實上以我目前考試院來看我們考試院所屬有三個部會考選部、權序部跟保訓會他們都負責各自不同非常重要的業務以考試院來講我們每年辦理100多個考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2798.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2817.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
提名人你的說明是依照目前的樣態在走但是本席告訴你的是說民間的反應已經有第一個要縮減的方向第二個甚至有討論到要廢除所以也表示民眾有這個聲音表示目前的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2819.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2834.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
制度一定有改善的空間有討論的空間對不對所以你點頭了之後本席要跟你討論的也就你剛才說的你希望運用你在數位累積的經驗所以本席要請教因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2835.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2858.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們目前為止全球化以及數位化的趨勢要怎麼樣能夠跟世界接軌跟我們國內的整個體系能夠接軌我想公務員員占了一個非常重要的角色也就是在他的專業性跟時代的適應性是非常的重要尤其現在AI的時代那麼你 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2858.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2871.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
如果你有機會來任這個職務的時候你認為未來在業務方面有哪些需要優化的呢請做說明謝謝委員提出這個非常前瞻的問題有關於AI的引進事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2876.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2889.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
在政府各個部門都積極在試用當中如果未來有機會到考試院在AI應用方面在考選的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2890.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2894.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
有提庫的調教可以透過AI處理同仁平常業務的運作可以透過AI幫同仁省掉功夫不需要過勞 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2910.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2935.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第三個當然還有很多就是對未來的一些的想像比如說我們未來有沒有可能發展到一定的這個技術成熟的時候請AI來幫忙一起越卷當然不是由他們來做最後的決定最後還是要由越卷的老師來做決定但是在之前我們可不可以先做一個類似一個助手的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2935.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2937.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
Iwan Nawi,副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2954.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2981.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
的這個課程裡面有包括像公務人員基礎訓練還有像這個衛生健、健身檢的各種不同的訓練那一年有1萬多個的訓練人次所以這樣的一個培訓我想可以幫助我們公務的同仁不管是新進的同仁也好或者是比較資深的同仁協助他們培養一些基礎能力或者在不同層級比如說我們如果要擔任檢任官 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2981.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2992.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
或許在AI的部分必須要去營造一個AI可以發展的環境所以在不同層級裡面應該有不同職能的設定我們根據這樣一個設定去規劃一些新的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2997.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3012.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那當然這個AI在某些的部分都還不是那麼樣的成熟所以據我的了解考試院他們現在也有一個叫做AI的使用的辦法的注意事項所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3013.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3040.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這些都是過去在考試院裡面有做的部分那未來如果我有機會到考試院的話我希望能夠把考試院打造成一個低流的這個智能或者是智慧化的人力資源的一個機構好 那這個提名人你所說的也就是在整個不管是題庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3042.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3042.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3065.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3068.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
Iwan NawiIwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3081.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3110.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
確保國家考試設計的一個公平性特別是在社經的背景族群的一個多樣化跟性別的平等方面尤其考試制度當中對於偏遠的地區或者是特殊需求特殊需求的群組的考量你有什麼樣的一個建議具體建議因為大家都希望它是一個公平性的它是一個需求度可以達到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3111.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3135.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
請做說明謝謝委員提問那我想我們考試制度運作了幾十年那其實受到我們一般社會大眾的一個信任我想這個是在全世界非常獨特的一個機構所以它的很多的傳統我們都必須要保持那比如說我們委員剛剛所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3136.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3137.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3163.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3181.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
對於新住民的行政的處理這方面有更專業的人才因為這一點我們談到了有聚焦因為新住民的部分也就是本席所說的特殊需求群體的重要性新住民都是我們的家人 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3181.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3205.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
他為這個社會也貢獻非常的多目前全國將近有70萬人光光台中市我們就將近要有7萬人而且每一年逐年在增加這一個需求是必要的是非常的重要本期很希望針對這一塊也就是特殊需求群體的這個部分要好好的去研議接下來本期要跟您討論的是政治中立跟制度公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3206.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3235.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我想這個是擔任一個考試委員、考試院非常重要的一個精神指標對不對你認同了之後本席要請教你那麼如果你擔任了之後你要怎麼樣保持高度的重力以及避免政黨的一個干涉尤其要怎麼樣保持你個人的公信力以避免院內決策的一個公正性請做說明謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3237.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3258.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
其實我從1998年回到國內來服務之後我一直都是超越黨派都是以專業性的服務所以過去在很多的政府服務也都是不看黨派而是從國家的整體的利益做一個比較超然的一些政府的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3259.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3287.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那未來當然這個如果有有這個能夠得到大院的支持能夠到考試院那考試委員的職責更要超越黨派那我們現在除了這個考試委員的這個角色的扮演之外呢我想在考試院的其中一個職責就是要推動行政中立所以我們有行政中立法那在各個不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3289.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3316.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
訓練的課程裡面我們也都有做這樣的就是在目前文官學院裡面也都有這樣的一個訓練的課程還有因為這個保訓會是要確保行政中立的一個機關所以我看到在很多的機關裡面它的一些比如說告示牌也好或者是海報等等都有做文官中立的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3317.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3345.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
當然我們隨著新的科技的發展現在有很多年輕的朋友他們都會使用社群媒體所以未來就是說在如果有機會到考試院的話我們也希望可以跟文觀學院這邊合作能夠把這個文觀中立的一些的思維或者是一些制度的建構能夠透過一些新的媒體讓我們新的世代能夠了解我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3346.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3362.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
能夠走到文官綜育這一步其實是走了很長一段路因為公務人員行政綜育法也是不久之前才通過的、才實施的就是因為社會有這個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3364.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3379.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所有的公務人員他要有所依歸但是有了這個需求有了這個依歸有所本但是坊間還是非常高度的基於整個在行政中立的部分呢要怎麼樣去徹底 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3379.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3399.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
能夠落實我相信這一點也是彌裕的心聲提供給你來做參考未來你有什麼方案可以具體更加的落實從如你剛才所說的在這個保訓會裡頭的課程要怎麼樣讓他從觀念可以去達到因為你觀念如果沒有通怎麼樣都不可能落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3400.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3425.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以這一點也希望要多做琢磨．達到一個公平性接下來本席也就是中國國民黨我也是中國國民黨的議員我們特別關心的也就是基層人力的問題我們看到現在公務人員的考試似乎他是在遞減參加的人數是在遞減那我們覺得以前都說這是替本務啊為什麼會有如此我們要好好的去研討 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3426.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3454.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
也就是基層的公務人員的人力流失跟工作負擔沉重的現象你認為考試院應該要可以怎麼樣的來改善那麼是不是要重新的來檢視公務人員的薪資結構跟他的福利體系來吸引更多優秀的人才能夠來加入公務人員的體系因為現在的社會面向跟以往不一樣尤其大家都是上班族你整個辦活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3455.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3477.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
必須要在假日尤其是這個週末禮拜六禮拜天休息的時候才會大型的活動因為所有人民都在工作只有在6日但是反推公務人員變成他禮拜一到禮拜五上班禮拜六到禮拜天他要辦活動各個區22個縣市大家都是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3478.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3479.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3495.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3512.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
在很多公部門接觸的過程裏面﹐其實也看到這樣一個現象﹐所以我想未來有很多的事情可以做﹐比如說以考試院來講﹐他應該嘗試從法規的部分﹐去建構一個友善職場的環境﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3513.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3513.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3537.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3542.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
Iwan NawiIwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3562.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3572.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
看看在各個不同的方面讓文官的這個工作讓公務員這個工作產生價值而不只是一個你現在回答的就是重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3573.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3595.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
由原先的認為非常的榮耀而且非常的有價值到現在有一點膽怯而且工作量的這個負擔是非常的大所以本期還沒有聽到你也非常的瞭解這些現象要怎麼樣具體去建立陳如你剛才說的勞動部發生了這個事情一個政府竟然在檢討的過程當中關關相呼 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3597.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3608.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
甚至來一個目的良善都已經造成這麼大的傷害還目的良善現在重啟調查這個不是一個有違的政府應該有的現象而且是很落差的有路了 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3612.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3627.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
所謂的友善職場所以本席就希望聽到你認為在目前公務體系當中這個霸凌事件要怎麼樣讓他能夠有精進呢不能再被霸凌了我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3631.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3636.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
公務人員保障法、公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3647.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3668.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
必須要全面去檢討因為目前的法規已經沒有辦法符合目前的所需而且霸凌的事件一直陳出、一直出這是我們非常難過的事情所以不能有這樣的現象好 謝謝楊委員也謝謝被提名人下一位我們請林國成委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3686.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3693.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好 謝謝主席 請我們黃貝提名人請黃貝提名人阿信委員好黃貝提名人其實我個人對黃貝提名人我是授課課的我對你了解列之一二 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3717.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3743.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
但是經過本席不但我的認知我還去請教左右鄰舍、親朋好友對於你的認知基本上跟我的認知完全都是一致第一做人處事以及你對協助的執著以及對黨派的中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3746.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3766.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
總總綜合起來我認為你當考試委員未來當考試委員是確確實實是很適當的但是在這裡雖為受過課但是公歸公、私歸私該問的還是要問但是一 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3767.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3792.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
一喜則一憂為什麼一喜則一憂喜的是我曾經授課的老師被社會、被總統肯定而來提名憂的是我認為考試院舊有的體制已經非常久未有創新的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3793.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3805.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以我擔心啊考試院本來就是合一制啊不是一個考試委員或者一個院長他就可以左右整個事情的大方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3806.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3824.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
所以一席席的是恭喜老師被總統提名優的就是說老師雖有理想雖有抱負但是假設我們本院通過以後成為考試委員的時候我很擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3825.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3837.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
只有理想只有報復但是這裏面何以治你有志難生那個時候博彩港灣在逃跑所以我是覺得這樣我是覺得這樣那 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3841.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3855.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
現在已經被提名那當然未來你如何去做也要聽聽我們被提名人你對於立法院跟全國人民如何去扮演這個角色那當然因為我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3857.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3870.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們黃碧提名人在政大的時候你從當教授的時候你就非常注意長期關注政府未來一定要數位化 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3871.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3886.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那這個數位化是未來歧視啊所以你不得啊 非常關注那這些東西我要聽聽我們黃配提名人你認為這個你在協助的時候是這種觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3887.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3906.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
當了考試委員以後能不能把你這些專業跟你的理想帶進來如何去把這些文官體制的數位去把它做好或者去把它做得更完整這點我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3907.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3931.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
王提名人能夠說明一下好不好感謝委員的這個鼓勵跟取喜還有支持那這個當然到這樣的一個提名的階段我當然也是誠惶誠恐就如委員剛所提到的考試院是一個合議制那當然我會如果有機會成為考試委員我會盡我的全力就是把過去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3931.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3941.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我希望在未來如果有機會到考試院的話我希望能夠把它打造成一個非常具有這個創新的智慧化的一個人力的這個資源發展的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3959.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3987.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
高效能的團隊那我想作為考試院他就是說在這個整個政府的運作裡面他是一個人力資源的一個推動的火車頭所以他如果自己沒有做好的話那大概也很難能夠帶動我們的公務的部門所以第一個就是說在考選在全序在保在這個培訓的部分我都有一些的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3988.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4011.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
在考選的部分我剛才也稍微帶過就是說未來能夠在事務的部分考試因為目前有很多的考試都已經電腦化那我們因應新世代的需求所以在考試的業務的部分我們更能夠需要與時俱進在全序的部分未來就是我想全序部他有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4012.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4013.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4030.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4031.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
副院委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4048.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4076.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
重要的決定就是說我們的決策不是憑空想像的而是要有資料作為基礎那全序部這邊其實累積了很長的公務界的同仁的資料那在培訓的部分那剛剛已經有提過我們目前已經有針對這個不同的不同的職級不同的訓練都已經有開售了很多的課程比如說最新的是用AI來學英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4077.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4095.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
未來是不是我們也可以評估一下像這個AR跟VR的這些新的科技要怎麼樣引進到我們的培訓課程裡面據我的了解目前國內已經有少數的訓練機關他們已經有引進這種沉浸式的或者AR、VR的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4096.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4101.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
Iwan Nawi是一名科學研究科學研究科研究科研究科 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4112.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4117.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
Iwan Nawi為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長． |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4135.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4150.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
其實因為我蠻期待的因為過去考試委員當然有他的專精可是在這個數位化公門機關數位化就幾例來講我在看所有的政府裡面臺北市政府的依化 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4151.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4176.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
以及數位他是做得最精密的包括連任何人就簽個名報到沒有在那邊簽名簿沒有是在他手機就可以直接簽名他也知道你今天有上班沒上班這些東西是有必要但是有一點我必須要跟黃提名的人做一個說明還是多數公務人員是不會打電腦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4177.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4203.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以這些我認為你們在整個考試院在制定這些公務人員考過了以後在做訓練的時候這個應該是一個重點工作所以我特別提醒我們黃提名人這個部分可能要用心去做引導去做爭取這樣的話才會能夠把這個數位化、政府化 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4204.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4229.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
把他做好所以這點我們還是蠻奇襲我們黃提名人在這個部分你要用你的學術專長去爭取到未來的政府數位化這樣才不會前功盡棄這一點我特別提醒我們黃提名人謝謝另外一個就比較敏感當然就你了解的你就做回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4230.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4247.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
也就是我們現在公部門霸凌的問題這個問題到底是公務人員的問題或者領導的問題或者一個體制的問題我不曉得你的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4248.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4277.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好 謝謝我想這個問題的原因非常多那我覺得整個來講是一個意識的問題就是對於這個人跟人之間的互動還有對於別人的這種侵犯因為在法律上這個所謂的霸凌大概就是行使職務的時候受到不法的侵害但是這個是在職場上面的我們在民間其實也有很多的霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4278.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4304.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那我其實蠻痛心看到這次勞動部的事件那另外在很多的部會也有很多的高階文官就因為在這個跟部署開會的過程裡面有一些不當的發言然後就重見下馬那當然這個能夠從進到公部門能夠升到12職等這個其實是一個非常長的過程黃提名人來 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4305.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4329.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我坦白跟你講我們都是從基層來啦能夠當到立法委員從基層來啦一個公務人員憑良心講霸凌這兩個字任何一個法令沒有辦法去保護他這第一個第二個勞工還有職安法欸但是公務人員沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4330.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4346.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以只有一個公務人員服務法當初也沒有在這個公務人員服務法你們在修或你們建議修的時候根本也沒有做這個規範啊所以在這個部分在這個部分我個人的遣件是提供給黃提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4347.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4368.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
有沒有可能你們盡快刻不容緩趕快制定公務人員不管你做什麼法什麼公務人員保護法或公務人員這個這個這個霸凌制什麼管制辦法我們不管但是公務人員不要現在的問題是出現到什麼我坦白講政務官也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4369.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4396.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
一級主管也好他們根本現在就是什麼根本不了解文官制度的三分尊重嘛如果他知道怎麼會叫他加班呢加班是自動自發來加班不是你長官叫我怎麼加班問題出在這裡啊就有霸凌的問題啊所以我建議啦我建議就給黃提名人做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4398.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4424.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
科程體制這是有必然改的還有考機制度是有必然改的還有該制定新滑器做規範這樣才能一勞永逸去把這個問題解決所以我還是希望黃提名人能夠聽得進去我們的建議未來談到這個問題的時候我希望你也可以替 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4425.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4447.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
基層公務人員發表一些他們需求的這些制定的法令另外我也是建議這樣可以比較這些勞動的檢查或者建立我們公務人員的另外一個管理辦法或者制定公務人員的一個裝潢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4449.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4473.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
寫得清清楚楚什麼範圍是霸凌什麼不是霸凌這講得很清楚當然公務人員要去服從啦但是你服從不是為了烤雞然後就動不動就是有霸凌之嫌嘛沒有必要所以我希望這一點我也希望我們黃提名人能夠把這個意見帶回去好那我現在又要請教黃提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4474.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4499.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
現在真的啊公務人員是替本話我就感覺到很奇怪啊現在寧願去崇尚都不願意去考高普考每一年還有高普考考上以後欸年紀輕輕欸30歲他說我不幹了公務人員我不幹了對不對所以這個問題你知道出在哪裡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4501.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4513.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我想就是現在的世代他們的價值跟我們這個世代的可能都不太一樣所以我們的法令我們的法令一定要定那我也知道我也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4515.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4542.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
考試院是合一制所以合一制當然只要有人發聲這個聲音就會出來那引起公務人員共鳴你們不得不做所以我還是希望啦我還是希望就是在這個部分真的是一個問題弄到最後真的都沒有人去考高普考欸 那考高普考欸不一定我們在座各位你是要有高普考通過我民意代表不一定考得過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4543.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4563.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以這個是很難的這個是很難所以這些人才不投入就是代表我們制度有問題他的前途是有問題那我在看就是什麼公務人員年改以後這多少會影響的多少會影響但是這些我們就必須一定要去注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4564.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4580.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
鼓勵每一個願意為老百姓服務的公務人員他們都來普考離職率也不要那麼高另外一個因為時間的關係我再請問我們黃提名人比較敏感的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4581.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4606.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
公務人員我不曉得政府在怕他們組公會幹什麼教書組公會他限定不能罷工嘛公會不是只有罷工兩個字啊公會是在職安方面、勞安方面、權力方面去保障不是只有罷工啦所以我就不曉得我們政府為什麼那麼怕公會成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4607.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4629.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
幾例教師公會他也成立啊可是限制不能罷工那公務人員那你要成立那就要看啊我就不能讓你罷工啊罷工錢不要放下去什麼權利他來保障有什麼關係尤其比較敏感的錦囂成立公會黃提名人你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4630.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4647.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我想有關於這個公務人員也好：或者警消組工會的這個部分據我的瞭解那考試院這邊在今年已經有一個協會法的草案送到大院裡面來那當然我們可以去盤點一下就是說這個協會法跟工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4649.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4653.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4670.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4686.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
針對公務同仁或者是警消那特定的法令讓他們可以組公會的話這個可以之後再來做評估所以我本身其實是開放只是說在現階段既然有一個你是開放你也認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4687.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4705.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
就是說未來其實我的意思是說就是說對於未來要不要組工會這個我是開放但是就目前來講我是覺得是不是就先從協會法這邊開始就是把這個修訂做得更周延然後先試行一段時間如果有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4705.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4733.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
原則性為以籌謀把他更細緻的規劃是有必要不要一看到主公會就好像紅手猛獸這個也沒有必要那這些當然因為尤其我們考試院扮演非常重要的因為文官體制都是從你們這裡出來所以也沒有那麼恐怖說實在的主公會你只要不要讓他有罷免錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4734.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4760.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那你那個罷工錢那你很簡單啊你就是他的職安問題他的勞動權的問題有所規範那公務人員當然有公務人員一定的準則這個我們當然是尊重可是我們要希望我們考試院不要站在一種好像把主公會當成紅手悶臭 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4761.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4774.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這個我還是蠻希望我們黃體名人能夠瞭解基層之聲音公務人員不是說說快一點我考到公務人員不管是五等級、幾等級就是要讓你們求護的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4778.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4803.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以不是這樣公務人員還是要有尊嚴如果有尊嚴然後他當然就要就公務人員服務辦法裡面的課禁職守嘛所以不要怕好最後一個我特別要提醒我們黃提名人我們大家現在大家都在爭議嘛就是連改公務人員連改他已經五年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4804.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4827.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那過去五年前據我了解我們考試院是有把最低的門檻也就是每年1.5降降降降它是你們的規劃是70%你們的所有資料你們去調一下70%可是現在問題在哪邊現在已經降到67.5%了欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4831.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4860.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以你看連這些門檻都沒有請問一下對這些公務人員他怎麼會有誘因呢所以我不曉得你針對這些為什麼你們檢查你們的考試院你們是規定70就不能再降這個是合理的保障但是現在已經降到67%了再降下去就65%一直降一直降 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4861.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4886.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
對公務人員啦 人家保險是這樣齁越老領越多他不是 他越老領越少這違背這整個保障之原則都不要去談那個什麼信賴保護的問題啦信賴保護的 說那快點政府保守叫的都NN的做一遍來18%我們贊成但是現在已經沒有這個制度了嘛我不曉得你對這些回去了解一下有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4888.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4917.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
幫老百姓講話的時候你還是要講一些公道話好不好好感謝委員那我想有關這個年金改革的部分那當然目前來講循序部這邊已經有做一個精算那我們未來就是在永續跟公平的情況之下我們盡量來幫好謝謝林委員謝謝王備提名人下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4923.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4929.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
謝謝主席有請我們考試院委員、考試委員、黃備提名人請問黃備提名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4940.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4968.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
黃隊提名人先跟你恭喜啦我看剛從林國成委員啦他的你們的巡打之間似乎他這一票就給你開了綠燈啦因為林國成委員跟我是同鄉所以我這一票我願意跟著林國成委員跟他的投票意志來一致啦但是有幾個問題啊我要來救教啦就是說讚美的部分我就不講啦這個我也不刻意去講你說你著作等身這個自學有成 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4970.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4979.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
在臺灣我們整個公務人員扶公職的人這個部分其實他的身份從過去來看的話都非常特殊以從 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4981.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5004.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們台灣去祭壽德國跟日本過去公務人員的特別權利關係到現在1972年德國的憲法的聯邦法院他們的聯邦法院聯邦的憲法法院他們就做出了一個判決揚棄了整個特別權利關係以後公務人員他的身份他的保障慢慢的就已經做一個提升了 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5005.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5008.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
公務人員相對於國家﹑人民對於國家﹑學生對於學校﹑受刑人對於監獄過去在特別權力關係底下權力被限縮例如地位不對等﹑義務不確定﹑有特別規則﹑甚至機關首長﹑ |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5027.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5055.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
一定的一個懲戒權但問題今天我幾個問題要來就教就是說公務人員的一個權利的一個保障在我們大法官釋字第785號解釋以後有了大幅度的一個提升那我相信最主要的幾個首次出現的一個慘事就是說釐清公務人員訴訟權的保障應有的觀念跟路徑不會因為說他的身份而在公法上有爭議的時候訴訟途徑就會有所不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5057.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5069.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
公務員的勤修制度應該屬於憲法第22條保障健康權的部分．形成涉及到健康權的法制．國家負有最低限度保護的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5072.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5101.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
接下來我要問的就是第三個等一下我會提出來就是說這個整個超額的補償要比如說加班或者說對於整個鳳級的延伸這些都不是一種恩己志而且是應該受到憲法所保障這一些服工職的一個權利所以我先請教貝提名人就是說我們現在工人服務法裡面一天上班幾個小時一天上班8個小時可以加班幾個小時加不到12個小時加到 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5102.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5128.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
總共12個加班工作人員服務法裡面其實就是工作人員他扶這個工資裡面這個基本的一個保障你一天上班8小時那你加班一天反正你就只能做到12個小時然後呢每個月不得超過幾個小時60個小時對這個大家都知道可是我們在中華民國我們的整個行政部門裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5130.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5135.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
母法授權下來以後啊那變成走樣了完全都走樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5136.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5166.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我不曉得被提名有沒有去意識到你這樣比如說我們如果碰到搶救重大災害或者處理緊急重大突發事件跟辦理重大的一個專案業務或是辦理季節性和週期性這些看起來因為你是公務人員公務人員對國家你就必須要比較效忠有忠誠基於法律去行事上級機關隊你又可以去監督所以業務難免難免就變成說你比較特殊關係國家具有這個高權的一個地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5166.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5190.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
可是呢我都覺得說法制這樣一個進步以後行政部門所定出來的這些辦法裡面啊你像比如說我們這次市制第785號裡面針對於健康權保障的跟合理補償部分啊我就要來救教你了就是說工人服務法母法去授權出來那你這些執法就不嚴謹了 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5192.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5203.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
他去跟你講 譬如說我們現在超過公務法十六小時上限的部分我們現在每天工作八小時的但是辦理重大專業業務延長辦公時事可以到六個小時這樣就比十四點正了 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5205.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5221.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那你就變成一天裡面是14小時那如果說你到最後說一個月裡面你就連續三個月你就不能超過兩百四十個小時那一個月又變成八十個小時又多出二十個小時了考試委員剛好剛好以後碰到的就是這個部分請問黃碧婷議員你對這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5232.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5244.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你的看法是怎麼樣行政部門所訂出來的執法都全部是超越了整個公認服務法裡面的規定就你不能超越一天12個小時阿秋慧應該衝到16點鐘這邊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5246.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5268.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我想這個部分當然在考試院就是在這個公務人員服務法裡面其實都已經有做了規定那現在授權給各行政部門包括五院還有總統府那就是說剛剛委員所提到的應該就是人事行政總署他所定的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5269.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5270.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5294.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5311.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
協商看看用什麼樣的方法來做比如像這個機關的預算或者是人力上面的增加也好或者對於這些超時的工作做怎麼樣的規範這個我想未來是要努力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5312.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5330.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我是個人認為說這個非常不合理的一個地方公務人員當然他的身份雖然是有一點點的一個特殊如果是一般老百姓的話你政府機關立法院所制定的一個法律的話你只要不是禁止規定的話我根本連理你政府都不理你政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5331.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5347.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我這依法可以我老百姓的義務我只要進了以後所有這一些禁止規定我不去觸犯它地利於我何有哉可是問題是他因為他公務人員的身份他被要求的就特別的多我覺得這個地方就非常非常的一個不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5348.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5365.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
郭文彥副公職他來上班我們不可能是一天就把他當成機器人他叫你一直做一直做所以我們必須要有公職的一個限制跟一般在社會企業一樣可是你又客語他跟他說我怎麼真的很沒用的呢重大災害是 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5366.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5389.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
政府本來要服務人民可是這些服務人民的這些公務人員他本身又是我們的人民只是說他所做的這一份工作叫做公務員那我們給他最基本的保障那這些基本的保障我們又設定我們又制定了公務員服務法可是我們的執法又去超越他那我要問啦要不要一定要服從 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5393.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5414.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這第一個第二個超時了你要不要給我加班費我們現在是比較離譜的是說各機關裡面他認為說各機關好啦我給你加班可是呢我這個機關裡面我預算編列是不足我的我就不給你加班費我就給你技工就好這應該要檢討你有沒有認為這個必須要檢討沒有道理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5422.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5438.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我覺得這個應該讓公務人員加班的這些同仁已經非常辛苦了應該讓他們有選擇的機會比如說我要補假還是說要加班費 或者可能少數人要獎勵這樣不一定會高興我來上班 上班後我就說法律給我規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5445.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5469.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
一天上班8小時加班就40個小時我遇到你那個防備提名人假設你是我的主管你就跟他說我要加班要6個小時要8個小時那我也認啊加班8個小時回去人家會想說這郭的薪水你給他扣上會比較多喔你又跟我說沒有加班費我給你記工就好不然我給你補修就好不對我認為這不對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5475.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5499.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
本席到認為說只要他有勞力的一個付出為什麼不能去超時的工作就憲法所保障的健康權那這次大法官會議解釋所做出來的也是在講這個健康權那現在給新公務人員薪水這也不是過去那種特別權利關係說喔政府我就聽你來你有做事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5500.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5524.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
給你N位N幾字不是啊現在不是N幾字啊那是我的勞力的付出啊雖然我名字叫做公務人員啊那我們既然給他設定一個基本的一個保障啊那我們又縱容其他的行政部門我們又去制定一些執法出來說你只要超時工作欸 超時工作法律規定公務人員服務法說不能加班超過4小時他們做的事情不要管我們就給6小時欸 一個月不能超過60小時差不多變80個小時可以這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5530.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5550.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
一個法治國家裡面會有在行政部門之間執法去超越母法我覺得黃貝提們如果是你被本院通過當了考試委員以後這個部分你願不願意去很積極的來面對提出檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5555.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5572.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
應該勒因為你發現啦你發現這樣的一個問題我們如果說都不作為的話對我們的工人員這個就很怪啦我去加班你說給我獎勵我加班我就想要加班費啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5573.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5601.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
下班以後你叫我加班錢來啊你假日叫我去加班你應該給我更多錢才對啊那我們現在整個公務體系的一個設計裡面啊我認為這個都是啊我們現在看起來啊就是一個亂象我認為這是一個亂象啊那你在我們的公保法跟服務法本身都利益良善我們都例外的去授權給各機關的一個彈性啊光在授權行政院人事總出貨就已經都變掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5604.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5633.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
貝蒂曼你有沒有覺得都變掉了基於業務的需求或者經費的部分但是這個的確我們未來考試院跟人事行政總組這邊需要做一些的協商那看怎麼樣把它做得更能夠符合公務同仁的需求特別是這些公務同仁都已經付出很多了那不應該再讓他們虧所以貝蒂曼你認為最佳的解決之道是什麼我目前因為對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5634.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5654.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
各個單位的這個超時的狀況還不是那麼清楚所以未來呢我們跟這個公務人員這個人事總處這邊有一些的瞭解探討之後再來看看怎麼樣把這個這個制度把它建構好 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5656.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5679.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我在這個地方被提名了我們也都不用去說這個用多高深的學問去看待這件事情人性就是這樣人性是說你照規定來我該上班幾個小時就很合理我盡我的本分可是呢你只要讓我去超時我第一個想到的你就是要給我加班費 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5680.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5687.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那不然呢我多工作了以後你就是要讓我補休我的白日我就可以下班你就偏偏叫你這個主管你就說沒有我們現在事情很忙所以你要來幫我加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5695.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5722.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
你叫我加班那你當然要讓我補修那按照整個法律來這個才是合理嘛那你現在的規定就產生了落差產生了落差我是覺得這個是比較可惜的一個地方啊就是我們主管機關在行政院定定的範圍裡面你按照整個你說業務的特性有人當然會很沒用嘛用警察啦消防人員啦那我們這一陣子在國會立法院裡面我們幾乎都是在補破啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5723.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5746.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這裏在補破啊就是說對於這些超時工作的部分啊我們本來啊這個部分啊你就必須要給這些公務人員給他們一定的一個知己啊否則呢你在公保法裏面去講講到最後說機關預算的限制或必要範圍的業務需要沒有辦法給加班費補休假的時候嘿嘿 說好啦我成績給你補好比較好啊臭婆人的嘴這樣感動這評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5751.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5773.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你覺得這樣通嗎 不通 沒通沒通喔 這沒道理啦 道理啦 叫我來加班我也來加班超時工作我也給你超時工作啊 你如果沒辦法叫我補休真的站不住 不用補休 說好來 記公 記小公一次 這樣不要再吵了 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5774.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5793.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這個整個考試院 總理整個公務人員的這個權序的部分也好 保障部分也好這個其實都還是殘留著特別權力關係底下的那種國家高權行為的運作裡面當事人服從的義務 這也不通 你不覺得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5796.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5808.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以這個應該有機會做到科技委員會希望黃北庭這個部分可以特別更加的去注意接下來就要問你的專業的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5809.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5829.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我知道我們被提名人對於整個這個國會很多的一個研究計劃案也都會委託你去做了一個開放政府裡面到底他的後台準備好了沒有開放政府跟科程體制的衝突跟調和這些話聽起來就非常熟了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5830.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5843.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個是你專門研究的一個領域我記得你那篇這個整個計畫裡面去統整出從2004年到2018年數位落差的一個問題數位落差這個問題就是一個好問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5844.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5866.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
為什麼你政府現在你說我是一個數位的政府要來智慧化時代不一樣了所以政府要更有效率把它數位化可是問題來了社會上都是有一些弱勢者你弱勢者你去接觸這個數位政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5868.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5880.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這個你如果沒有準備好你等於又去阻隔了弱勢者去接觸到數位政府服務的一個機會這一些你的研究裡面可不可以簡短的你有沒有什麼樣的一個對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5883.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5897.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我想有關於數位落差的部分其實發生在各個不同的階層、領域、地區以目前來講過去我們臺灣推動的數位政府已經十幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5900.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5913.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
目前來講大概有的落差比較大是在年齡層那特別是在大概是在55歲以上的這個年齡層我們說他是數位新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5915.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5931.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我想就是說這個部分的話覺得是應該要有一些資源的投入比如說早期在那個iPad這些平板剛出現的時候我們研考會或者是國發會這邊曾經有推動一些計畫到偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5932.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5959.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那在這個村裡裡面邀請一些比較資深的公民我們不要說老人是資深的公民一起來學所以就是說我們有一些的基礎設施之外最重要是要怎麼樣教他們去使用也就是說在我們的政策的推動過程裡面除了把這個政策的內涵遞送出去之外怎麼樣在這個過程也讓這些比較弱勢的族群能夠學到一點點東西我想不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5960.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5962.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5981.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5981.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
王貝提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6011.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6030.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你來做科技委員你考試院你現在還沒去你也知道現在考試院好像覺得很老派這個老機關你掌管這些文官以後你去把它看我去拜託你的大作你再提那個基世代你的基世代你自己會記得嗎幾年出生一個基世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6032.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6049.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
一九九零年一九九零年年代以後出生的現在逐漸成為公務人員國家整體的一個重要組成這都新的這每個都新的你考試院是文官制度來掌理的這些人像你也都 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6051.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6076.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
數月有成立以後年紀就一定有一定的一個年紀嘛這也很正常嘛啊你們這叫老派的捏啊G世代這是未來國家公務人員組成的生力軍然後碰到在管理的在中理文官體制的都是你們這一批老派的你們要安裝去創一個讓你們的考試院未來讓人家覺得說你們跟人民是很接近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6077.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6104.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
讓民眾會覺得說你們是充滿的活力的讓這一批既世代的人進來以後會覺得說我怎麼樣來調和因為你畢竟表達方式也不一樣然後思考也完全不一樣可是進入到公務體系裡面這個文官制度這是很封閉的你認為有什麼樣的一個方式或者怎麼樣政府該去加強來留住這一批你所謂的既世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6105.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6133.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我想就是第一個我們考試院本身的同仁他就需要去強化他自己的數位的能力那從這邊的強化之後呢那他們大概就會改變了這個文化應該就會有一些新的機制去跟我們的未來的文官也就是說考生也好或者是公務同仁來受訓的也好能夠把這些新的這個科技或者思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6133.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6151.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
再進來,我想從考試院這邊可以先開始來做很好啦,我是覺得很坦誠啦,先跟你預祝啦好,謝謝好,謝謝莊委員,謝謝被提名人下一位請葛如君委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6171.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6175.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
謝謝主席 有請考試委員備題名人黃東益教授請黃備題名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6186.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6206.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
委員好教授好恭喜黃教授被提名聽說好像在院內也有您的學生這個桃李滿天下那因為您本身是政治學的博士也多次擔任考試典事委員、命題委員也曾經主編文官制度參與國家考試相關政策的設計跟研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6207.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6224.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
可以說是對於整個考試制度的心格、文官培養的研究都是您的強項同時您也寫了很多跟開放政府有關的文章我也拜讀過了那想先首先針對最近有非常多人關注的公務人員退輔制度的問題來向您請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6226.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6251.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
公務人員保險法的相關條文修正以後在2023年的7月1號起新進的公務人員退府基金由這個確定給付制改為確定提撥制這個我想你應該知道了那這兩個制度其實有很大的不同是說以前是終身給付沒有個人帳戶的現在則是有個人帳戶等於是領完就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6252.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6277.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以現在未來的公務員退休之後開始領錢個人帳戶裡面的錢領完之後就不能再領了不像以前月退可以領到登出這個世界為止現行的退府機制也不能說是不好但是有一個狀況如果未來的經理人操作的績效不好未來的退休金可能也會受到影響所以我們來看一下也想請教您 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6278.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6291.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
就公務人員的退休金改為確定提撥制以後與勞工退休金一樣不再是終身給付跟千萬勞工都相同您認為會不會降低國人報考國家考試的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6293.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6314.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個部分我不太確定因為一般的考生他可能對於這個部分還不是那麼樣的了解所以您覺得公務員以前大家說公務員等於鐵飯碗或者說公務員有這個勞退的這個保障您覺得這對他們不是誘因不會構成影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6315.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6333.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
您現在沒有看法新聞都出來了這個會是一個誘因但是就像我們剛剛所提到的就是對於這個新的制度沒關係我問您一句話您覺得公務員或報考的人在不在乎他的退休金嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6334.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6334.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
本金的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6362.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6380.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
好沒關係這個希望您之後了解一下因為退府基金真的是我們公務體系裡面非常重要的一環那當然我們可以講不管本金還是利息怎麼樣過去確實狀況還不錯啦收益還蠻好的但是呢我們可以看到其實我們的退府基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6381.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6406.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
也是在投股票的喔也是在投股票的喔有時候我們都跟年輕人講說不要這個炒股啊那當然股票可以說是一種投資正常的方式但是其實我們有佔比非常大的台積電將近40%鴻海5%所以等於什麼我們國家重壓台積電之外我們連退府基金都重壓台積電啊那當然啦我們當然希望他好但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6408.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6436.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
有沒有可能賠錢有沒有可能世界的變動影響結果我們的退伏基金也縮水我想請教佩庭名人以您數據治理的專業背景來看這些基金管理局一下公佈說賺錢了也可能賠錢那你說他說他自己說他賺錢你覺得值得信任嗎有沒有辦法確保這些公佈的基金持股是透明而且正確不是經過扭曲或者篡改的怎麼查核怎麼驗證您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6437.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6451.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我覺得這個部分未來如果有機會到考試院的話我們會讓它透明化因為我過去一直都是強調透明的價值透明、克制都是必須要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6452.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6471.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
好 很好其實您以前也提過這個問題因為有人可能會不願意承認它賠錢嗎有可能這個數字我們應該要第三方查核嗎那您過去曾經表示將倡議透過數位化的工具這是您對於我們書面問題的答覆說將倡議透過數位化的工具來強化基金財務狀況的監控與透明度 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6477.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6502.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
以增強您剛剛提到的透明度跟公信力請問被提名人您所謂的數位化工具到底能不能舉例您提到了透明化能不能舉例啊不然很空泛啊我想這個最基本的就是要公開嘛公開那當然我不知道目前的這個基金的操作的過程裡面我知道在一些民間的公司他們會用一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6503.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6507.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
當然我們剛剛有提到啦就是他最後的投資結果可能是一個Excel表 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6526.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6538.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個東西有可能中間不一定可以被信賴嘛他其實應該還要有更多的機制、制度跟工具去查核他啦第三方驗證也好啦驗算的機制也好啦其實齁我給你一個暗示齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6539.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6564.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
其實這種不管是做假帳啦或者是這種我們都相信不會存在但是我們應該要這個要料情從寬嘛對不對我就給您一個提示啊其實現在各國呢都有導入新的科技您剛剛提到的是AI有人呢認為很多數據在公務部門尤其操作這種大額資金的時候可以用區塊鏈的技術來做這個不可篡改的記錄跟驗證到時候呢賠錢他賴不掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6566.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6591.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
甚至我直接投資的標的就在區塊鏈上面一來一往全部都不可篡改其實從美國、英國到日本都開始有退伏基金在考慮甚至已經投資像比特幣這種已經被各國承認的資產我想請教您鏈上基金或者是把基金拿去投資鏈上的資產同時也獲得透明度數位化可信任不可篡改這個方向您 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6592.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6608.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
知不支持 同不同意我想如果考試院未來在資源充足、技術成熟還有整個人力豐沛的情況之下我覺得是可以來評估來使用的一個方向不反對 可以研議嘛 對不對 很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6608.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6636.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那我想再來再討論一下就是這個比較應該還是需要做透明化就我們剛剛講的是數位化、科技化再來和您討論一下退府基金操作的績效其實我們也去看了目前有一點透明化一部分就是退府基金對於前十大持股當然我們剛剛講到的這些確實都有在官網定期公開但是對於前二十大的虧損持股 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6638.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6653.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
卻沒有公開沒有定期公開想請教您對於退府基金操作的前20大虧損持股是不是應該要比照前20大的或前10大的持股也應該要公開來接受公眾的監督呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6654.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6683.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我覺得這個部分可能要審慎評估一下因為第一個就是說短期的虧損他對長期來講他可能不見得虧損那如果這個公布的話會不會引起投資人的一些的不理性的行為或者誤導等等是很好我覺得這一點一喜一憂喜的是您是非常一致的這跟您過去的資訊跟詢答是一樣的但是一憂是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6683.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6710.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我個人會覺得您一方面在過去強調開放政府您剛剛自己也提到了資訊透明你為什麼要報喜不報憂呢那我們以後的開放政府我們都只講好的啊我們有人員流動有霸凌我都不要講啊這樣的態度是對的嗎您一方面強調要資訊透明一方面又反對公開虧損的資訊你到底是要透明還是要半透明到底要全透明還是不透明還是選擇性的透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6711.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6741.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
公務人員退府基金的投資牽涉到非常大一筆錢如果政府堅持不公開虧損的資訊也應該要適時揭露您剛剛提到偶爾有一點小虧損可以不要我虧了10%我虧了20%、50%甚至已經變幣值了要不要揭露才能夠讓大家對退府基金有信心才能夠增加更多的人才來報考國家考試這個部分您願不願意改變一下您的觀點我想我可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6742.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6763.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
再去評估思考一下好不好因為這是擔心對於一些民眾的誤導那萬一民眾是很健康的民眾的眼睛是雪亮的民眾的心理是很強韌的我們現在一邊要強調韌性我們要信任我們的人民好不好接下來我想和您討論一下政府內部資訊人力的問題剛剛有委員也提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6764.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6780.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
本席曾經拜讀您的大作書中暢談了政府數位轉型的各個面向我也非常感謝您一直提到開放政府、數位政府那您提到有一句金句說資訊人力是政府最重要的後盾本席非常認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6781.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6805.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我作為阿宅科技立委我非常認同但是依據全序部2022年年底的統計資料顯示全國公務人員資訊處理的職系只有3600多人相較之下同樣被定義為幕僚單位的會計審計的職系有11000多人人事行政職系有9700人我不是要比較他們的重要性或什麼但我必須要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6806.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6827.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
資訊人力在接下來的世界越來越重要這樣的比例您認同嗎我們還有資安的問題接下來還有您提到的數位化的政府要做後盾啊您會不會認為這個後盾太單薄、太脆弱了一點感覺跟我們的政府好像有點不堪一擊啊您可不可以回應一下呼喚一下我們的這個左內閣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6828.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6846.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我想的確我們總統也主張要推動政府智慧國家所以在這個資訊的人員資源的投入都應該要相對應要增加嘛特別是剛剛委員提到像資安的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6846.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6875.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
沒錯那這個部分其實是非常重要的謝謝您認同這樣的方向應該要提高吧3000太少了嘛 對不對我這裡當然您過去一直呼籲您現在未來有機會可以直接進來我想卓院長上台有喊出AI內閣各部會紛紛推出AI相關的研究計畫但是人事行政總署的資料我必須告訴您近十年來行政院所屬各部會的資訊人力完全幾乎完全沒有增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6876.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6896.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
請被提名人猜猜看最容易受到駭客攻擊的國防部目前有多少資訊人員猜一下五百一千三千人裡面有多少人您猜一下嘛大概兩百人很抱歉告訴你真的很不足啊五位 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6897.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6919.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
五位這五位資訊人員這個單薄的人力要對抗來自全世界對國防部可能造成的攻擊蔡英文前總統說資安及國安這就是我們的國安我想考試院是國家最高的機關您掌理這些考試、公務人員、權序、保障、升遷甚至是褒獎等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6920.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6933.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我想您的這個職官希望您進去之前之後都希望可以再提升一下再請您猜猜看考試院您要進來的這個地方目前配置有幾名資訊人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6935.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6964.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我想考試院的話他除了院本部之外像剛剛提到的是國防部的部本部那考試院的話可能應該更多吧院本部之外還有考選部你大概抓一下嘛大概十來位吧十來位十位都不到只有九位十位都不到只有九位聽到這個數字我想被提名的人可能會很害怕本席替您感到害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6965.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6983.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
會不會哪天睡醒了我們高普考的考題就被駭掉了會不會哪天睡醒了我們錄取的榜單就被駭掉了會不會哪天睡醒我們的退府基金的錢就被駭客轉光了資料被篡改了日前勞動部的這個發展北分署傳出這個不幸的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6984.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6997.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
一名無性資訊的這個職系的公務人員因為單位內他是唯一正職的資訊人員可以說是被迫了承擔了所有的資訊業務包括新的AI專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6998.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7026.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那長期這個時間嚴重不足身心受到殘害現在大愛的口號一起喊起來各部會都來做結果是去剝削公務人員的時間跟他的體力甚至是他的心神可以說是全國所有人最壞的示範請問被評論這樣子我們剛剛提到的人力編制以您工型系教授的專業來看稱得上合格嗎還是我們其實是最負面的教材 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7027.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7049.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這個需要檢討是不是不合格啊這個應該要真的再不改善我們真的會變成最負面的教材那我想還有一個地方也希望您關注一下以前我們都講資訊人力資訊人力但是實際上資訊人力有非常多種有資訊有您剛剛提到的資安有數據資管 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7050.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7073.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
可能還有IT這種infrastructure的人力他們都分別屬於不同面向的業務想請問一下被提名人這些比較專業的題我想你應該都了解你是否認同一個高度專業化的數位化的政府是不是應該要針對三種或四種或更多不同種類的資訊的人員或者很多專業也都有細化嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7074.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7094.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
是不是應該要針對這些更多的專業的企劃來做不同的類科進行考試確保我們的政府可以錄取符合專長的專業人力嘛不然你不同的專業的人力你以為說你懂電腦不錯你會裝作業系統你來處理資安你會弄資安的你來幫我們弄APP這樣可能不太對吧您知不知恥啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7095.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7110.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我想委員這個提議其實蠻好的那未來我們如果有機會到考試院就是要跟用人機關一起來討論事實細化嗎細化資訊人才細化其他所有專業的人才我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7111.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7129.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
主要是如果用人機關他們覺得有這個必要的話我們會做相對應的調整我時間有限但我跟您分享一下2024年我們確實開始細化了偵測資通安全類科結果咧今年7月我們招考資安人員竟然只提報11個職缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7131.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7146.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這就是我們要的資安跟國安嗎請問被提名人您覺得問題出在哪裡我們的政府是當慣老闆上癮了嗎越少的人可以做越多的工作越好嗎社會現在是重科技輕人文我們的政府反而是重人文輕科技嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7147.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7173.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們是不是應該要balance一下政府要帶頭做啊是不是可以balance帶頭做我想這個就是未來跟用人機關再做一個討論就是說是不是能夠反映他們真正需要的這個援額那如果他們覺得這個是需要再增加的話我想考試院這邊會來做必要的調整我想這個議題非常的重要啦您一直提到數位化的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7173.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7197.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們這些資安的人力不足資訊的人力不足我們這些人想要進來幫忙條條框框結果呢您會不會未來進入了這個體制以內結果呢閉口不談這些問題外界會不會以後講說黃考試委員就沒有黃教授當時的風骨了您要怎麼面對學生面對你的讀者啊您是不是可以承諾我們剛剛提到的這些問題如果您進來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7198.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7209.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
可不可以努力全力努力我會努力來把委員剛剛所提到的這些具有創新性的一些想法然後也貼近實務的想法帶到考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7209.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7229.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
跟其他先進一起來努力除了細化以外除了人力增加以外其實還有一個最關鍵的問題我想要跟您談談公務部門的資安或資訊人才的薪資12月4號交通委員會的鍾嘉賓委員其實就提到我以前也一直不斷的在提 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7231.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7257.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
資安的人才要進到政府我們應該要符合他們在這個社會上的薪資條件甚至連民進黨的委員都提出來了以前我們是以職續薪結果呢產業的人進不來啊一個AI的人才在美國起步薪資喔大學剛畢業450萬年薪結果我們現在用我們的方法來聘可能沒辦法我想請教貝提米人政府的資訊人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7258.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7275.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
有沒有可能去改用不要是以前的這種以值序薪用以薪序職你過去在產業什麼樣的薪水我希望你不要差太多進到我們的部門體系裡面來替國家服務有沒有辦法做到您認為可不可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7275.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7295.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我想這個可以去努力但是因為我們整個考試制度其實非常重要一個基石是公平黃教授我們剛剛才講你不要以前寫書寫一寫寫的話開放政府啊結果你現在說那個賠錢的不要講數位化啊然後你講說資訊人力這個各種問題您的風骨還在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7302.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7322.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
承諾一下吧!以心續職啊!我們會努力去做一個評估那如果可行的話我們當然就來做所以您現在沒有想法對不對?我現在不太敢確認因為對這個議題的瞭解還沒有那麼深刻那我知道業界跟政府部門就像剛剛委員所提到的那個心思是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7323.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7347.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這不是藉口好嗎各國都在補充資訊的人力以前是資安及國安做得沒有很好我們都看到了以後是資訊及國安你資訊能力資訊人力沒有進來我們的國家怎麼可能會強盛呢我們的公務體系大家怎麼可能有辦法平均分擔他們的工作呢以心蓄質考慮一下最後本席要強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7348.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7363.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
政府口口聲聲的在講資安及國安政府口口聲聲的在講勞動的人力是心頭最軟的那塊肉結果我們阿宅被放到國防部五個考試院九個 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7365.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7388.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們的公務員累過頭甚至還被霸凌我想這種長期的不足還有過去發生的憾事冰山一角希望未來如果您真的成為考試委員要有風骨進到考試院以後借助您的專才幫助我們的政府加強數位化、透明化還有開放政府的目標前進可以承諾嗎好 謝謝謝謝葛委員也謝謝王備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7398.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7422.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
張宏祿委員之詢問以書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請黃建豪委員詢問好謝謝大會主席我們請考試院委員被提名人黃東益教授請黃被提名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7433.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7454.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
委員好黃貝提名很好那我就待會我的稱呼對你稱黃老師好了畢竟我們是政大的這個校友這個黃老師我想這個昨天立法院在審查最近在討論這個公務人員退休撫恤法相關修法審查那我不知道黃老師對於權敘部提出的修法意見你有沒有看過他的修法意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7455.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7479.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
有大致了解嗎?有大致了解嗎?但我想現階段我們考試院,對不起,現在全區部的立場這公務人員退輔基金改革是希望能夠透過調降以退休人員的所得替代率達成讓退輔基金可以永續的目標簡單來說是讓退休的人齡少一點讓更多的人齡久一點,是不是這個樣子? |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7484.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7489.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
讓退休已經退休的人零少一點﹑達成讓更多的人零九一點的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7492.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7511.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
大致上是如此吧那被提名你在看這個相關資料的時候不知道有沒有一句話讓你覺得有點矛盾我也放在這個資料上面在這個全序部昨天提出的八大意見裡面來講如果我們調降所謂的年金改革做這個公務人員退府基金改革的目標是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7512.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7536.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
讓更多人領久一點讓退休的人領少一點的話有一句話我覺得有點奇怪我不知道你看到會不會覺得有點奇怪就是呢這個八大理由的部分有講到說年改後退休者的時之月退休金額反而會持續增加這個是權序部寫的意見你有沒有覺得這件事情跟大家想像的不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7537.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7566.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
因為退休人員他也會根據一個辦法他們在過去的幾年裡面有調了百分之六所以他也會跟著持續增加這個是我的理解我不知道跟我的理解有沒有不一樣因為我們大概每這個CPI增加到百分之五的時候就要做調整或者是每四年要檢討一次所以我們退休人員所領的月退休金 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7567.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7587.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
在過去幾年裡面也增加了6%所以這個是他增加的部分黃老師謝謝那當然我想你歷屆的部分是正確的一部分沒有提到那為什麼這個年改後新退休者的十字月退休金額會持續增加呢那當然是因為這幾年新退休的人他的公務員調薪了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7589.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7599.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
他新退休的他當然因為調薪所以他的本縫提高了所以他當然他後續的這個月退之縫能夠當然能夠增加但是我們今天要強調的是有兩個部分第一個如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7600.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7626.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
政府一直講說這個要破產了錢不夠用所以要去調降以前的這個承諾讓已經退休的人他們沒有辦法去面對去對抗這件事情那反而那是有去有足夠的資源足夠的金額足夠的預算讓新退休者第一個現階段的所有公務員能夠調薪新退休者的這個資金也能夠提高這是第一件事情這是我覺得這是反而還真的世代不爭議這是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7627.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7646.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
第二件事情是剛剛教授提到所謂CPI調整的部分現行的CPI調整是達到5%之後才來啟動來討論要不要調整那當然本席這邊也要想請教一下如果未來黃老師有機會進到考試院當任考試委員的話我有一個提案你聽聽看 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7647.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7672.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
基本概念沒有變就是CPI達成正負5%的時候要啟動相關的這個退休金的這個調整但是這個調整跟現在唯一的差別是什麼就現階段是達到5%之後要不要調整是由政府來決定要不要調整我的說法是達到正負的5%之後就應該強制啟動來調整我不知道黃老師對這樣的看法怎麼想 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7673.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7686.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我想對於這個部分未來是可以評估來推動看看所以黃老師你願意支持說如果CPA物價指數有調整的話政府就應該啟動這個退休金的調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7687.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7712.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好 謝謝王老師那接下來我們要談到說這個全區部提到的一件事情就是如果現階段此刻如果停止退休所得替代預率逐年降低的話那這個年金所謂的這個基金用期的這個年份會從135年提前到131年我想問一下王老師對於這個全區部目前這個說法你的理解認同嗎還是他有其他的部分沒有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7714.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7730.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我想這個全序部應該是有經過精算因為我們本來在這個年改之後本來是可以延到140年就是把它用光嘛但是因為年改薪資就從去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7731.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7759.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
開始所謂的確定提撥制開始實施之後新進的這些同仁的這個扣角的部分就沒有放到這個大水庫所以因為這樣的關係所以提前到135年那在經過精算之後如果現在就停止所得替代率的遞減那可能會就再往前提早4年就會破產這個是我的理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7759.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7788.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
黃老師你剛剛提到一個很重要的一個數字一個年份叫民國140年你可以參考一下我在這個資料上提供給您的這個140年就是現階段的政策如果政府有按時有按金額有按照精算報告撥補公務預算的話的確基金可以到140年如果完全不撥補到135年所以全區部講說如果現階段我開始停止調降所的替代率 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7789.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7804.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
年金這個基金會提早到131年用盡這個說法我覺得他有點欺騙我今天提出來是希望如果黃老師你有機會擔任考試委員的話對於全區部提供給立法院的報告他應該要更精確的說明不應該用這種標題 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7807.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7822.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這個資訊不對稱的情況去講這個就像我剛剛陳述的他自己在報告裡面講說如果現在停止調降的話會從135提早到131但問題是那個是完全不撥補的完全沒有用公務預算沒有用撥補的情況下他才會從135開始算 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7823.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7842.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
按照政府的現階段的做法其實本來就會撥補但撥補的話應該從140年開始算140年開始算跟從135年開始算的話光這件事情就差了五年了所以計算基準就不一樣所以這我提出來第一件事情也是希望說未來如果您有機會擔任考試委員這個數字要提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7843.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7869.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
你要提醒全區部部長不要這樣子信口開口亂講話那接下來有沒有看到啊這個黃老師過去針對退府基金財務問題的時候你也提過說如果我也誤會你的意思的話你要糾正我你有提過說這個要強化退府基金收益與挹注機制那提高基金的投資績效跟穩定的政府預算撥補這個是不是你過去的立場是嗎我想是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7870.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7874.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好既然是齁那我要提醒這個我們這個黃老師如果未來擔任考試委員你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7876.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7887.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
到目前為止2024年這個缺口大概是317億那2024年實際要撥補的這個金額只有100億換句話說還有217億還沒有撥補那再來如果合計到2025年的話也是一樣2025年公務員120億教師其實行政院只願意編194億所以2024跟2025 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7902.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7929.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
合起來的話他等於總共大砍了340億就是說政府試算出來考試院試算出來的結果有這麼多錢但是政府只願意今年給2024給1002025給194不夠了部分340所以我要問的是說面對行政院這樣子的態度未來如果你擔任考試委員你要用什麼樣的立場來面對這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7930.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7952.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
當然我覺得政府應該要負年金的支付的最後的保證的責任所以未來如果有機會到考試院我們會全力的來跟其他的部會來把這個資金就是撥補的部分能夠盡量把它提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7955.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7972.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
好 謝謝黃貝提名的回應的確如果你這個態度的話我個人表示認同就是說該撥補的政府該撥補本來就該撥補因為這涉及到真正的公平正義為什麼要這樣講因為這是第一個我們還是要講我很年輕沒錯我們家也沒有人當公務員但這是公平正義的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7974.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7993.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
當初這一群已經退休這一群人他們當初來報考公務員本來就對這個所謂退休金或對退休生活他一定有自己的算法跟自己的期待那是政府以自己講說的財政不足所以違反當初承諾去打壓軍工教養的污名化那再提到撥補的問題剛剛提到這個足額撥補的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7995.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8009.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個我們前勞動部部長何佩珊提過啊這個撥補也是有改革的一部分因為如果按照如果勞退跟這個公教人員的退伏基金要一樣的計算方式的話那我想勞退基金一定也不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8010.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8030.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那不夠怎麼辦就靠政府的預算來撥補來負最後的這個責任那同樣的概念如果今天勞隊可以這樣做我認為公教的這個退休基金理論上也應該可以這樣做這就回到我剛剛提到的嘛如果今天你作為考試委員如果行政院不願意撥組的話那考試院的立場是不是應該要來極力爭取那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8032.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8055.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
當然說之前提到議後條例在議後那時候有個特別預算大家都補了就偏偏台電也補了勞保也補了勞退也補了就偏偏公教的這一部分沒有補所以我想這個是差別待遇啦所以我希望你擔任考試委員的話應該要站在保障公務人員的立場讓這些人他奉獻一輩子給政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8056.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8082.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那奉獻被給政府計畫退休生活還要看政府臉色所以回到我剛剛提到的如果CPI指數調整百分之五如果真的調整百分之五我想對我們在座所有的生活影響會非常非常大那我們還有能力做新的工作嘛或是我們可能去有別的盈利的方式但是這些退休的公務人員他可能他就沒有辦法啦所以說我想退休公務人員他的生活保障應該是政府的責任你認同嗎當然認同所以未來會積極爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8084.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8113.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
所以在這個議題上面我在最後跟這個我們這個黃北提名人確認幾個立場所以您支持的是說如果CPI物價指數有調整的話就應該強制啟動直接啟動所謂退休金的調整嗎是的我想因為您知道考試院是一個合一制那以我個人力量我會努力去爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8114.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8137.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好那再來就是說如果行政院持續不願意不願意撥補足夠的預算給所謂的退休基金站在考試委的立場你也願意去爭取嗎是的是嗎是的好那最後一個您認為現階段的這個公務人員的所得替代率調降你支持還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8138.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8163.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我覺得這個要審慎就是我們要考慮到基金的永續性還有各個不同的族群的公平性所以我覺得這個是可以討論的好 謝謝黃貝提名的說法那接下來我們進到這個大家也很關心的所謂霸凌的問題我想這個考試委員最重要的職責是選才、育才、用才跟留才嘛那我想當然近期不只勞動部這個勞分署有這個大職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8167.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8184.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
各部會陸陸續續都傳出大大小小情勢不一的霸凌事件那在過去的這段時間立法院跟行政院之間的質詢裡面包括我們提到所發現一件事情現階段公務人員的這個保障在霸凌這個事情上面他是沒有專法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8185.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8197.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那他的主管機關其實也不是勞動部因為勞動部管的是所謂職業安全衛生法裡面是屬於勞工的部分但對於公務人員他的保障理論上是放在考試院這邊我們要問的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8199.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8215.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
在後續你看到現階段這個東西這個不是考試這個是行政人事總署提供的員工職場霸凌的處理流程的問題但我想問一下如果今天您擔任這考試委員的話對於公務人員的職場霸凌你願不願意請考試院提出相關的專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8217.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8240.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就像勞工有職業安全衛生法等等這樣子的法例來保障所謂公務人員在職場面對霸凌他的法律要件因為我想這幾次事件尤其以這個勞動部這一次的這個遺憾來講的話他第一份檢查報告他有一個很核心的概念他說是因為沒有因果關係我不能證明我咆哮你我霸凌你所以導致你的這個這個這個自殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8242.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8256.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以沒有成立一個關係所以他第一份的報告說他沒有這個責任那當然現在輿論壓力來了他們要重新做報告只是報告還沒做出來我也不知道結果長怎麼樣但是我們要回到這個議題本身回到結構本身如果今天擔任考試委員的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8258.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8280.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
對於職場霸凌那如果導致我們公務人員不管是死亡也好受傷也好或身心靈的問題也好這件事情是不是應該把立法立起來我想這個是考試院不能夠逃避的職責那當然在過去這一個多禮拜裡面的一些詢答我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8281.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8308.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
院長被提名已經有提到下個會期會用最快的速度去修改目前公務人員保障法還有安慰辦法甚至我們在其他的場合裡面我們的全區部長他也提出要針對考機的部分要把霸凌的這些行為列進來作為一個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8309.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8336.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那剛剛那個委員所提到的專法的部分或許可以是一個選項但是這個都可能要再比較審慎的去做評估但是謝謝委員提出好黃老師因為這個從現階段的所提供給你的表格目前看起來這救濟程序的部分行政總署的最後救濟程序是要申訴成立的與否的決定是要依公務人員保障法來提起救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8337.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8362.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個相關的主管機關當然是在考試院的公務員保訓會我們再看一個數據公務員保訓會從109年起受理職場霸凌的案件統計到112年10月去年的10月我手上數字到10月而已共計40件最後結果怎麼樣呢就目前為止有4件不受理、32件駁回、4件撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8363.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8369.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以聽起來怎麼樣就是109年到112年10月40屆裡面其實沒有一件成功的 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8370.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8398.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這是很可怕的事情這可能是要看徵送的提出者是機關還是個人所以這些資料其實都蠻珍貴所以未來如果在整個修法的過程裡面我們可能就是要把這些個人拿來做分析比如說看看有哪些的樣態那怎麼樣把它規範到我們的這個保障法或者安慰辦法裡面那據我的了解目前治安署那邊已經有提供了大概15種的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8400.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8402.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8425.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8444.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
頂著長官的壓力面對升遷的考可能不過等等的壓力他勇敢的去面對這個體制他跟上級機關申訴一定是沒有結果的應該說他就是因為沒有結果之後他才會去尋求剛剛我提到的人事協定總組那整個流程走到最後就是要往保續會找 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8446.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8473.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
當我在行政部院的這個體系裡面我找不到之後我去保訓會去考試院找人能夠來幫我主持公道但在按照我這個數字來講這40件卻沒有一件成案這表示這保訓會對於工人的保障我覺得是一定有一定程度的瑕疵啦那不然如果沒事我沒有必要跑去保訓會按照程序我也不能直接跳過正常的行政系統去保訓會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8474.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8496.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我一定是在內部的救濟我達不到或是我沒辦法成功的申訴我才會去保訓會所以理論上保訓會應該會是剛剛提到如果今天你要去去到考試院裡面保障公務員的話保訓會理論上應該才是公務人員最後的保障的這個單位那如果按照往年的這個數字40間都沒有成立的話你不覺得這中間有點奇怪吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8497.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8519.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我想這個謝謝委員的提示那這個部分我會再去了解就從這些個案裡面去看看過去的案件的內涵到底有哪些可以作為未來修法的參考不過那個剛剛委員所提到的對公務人員的保障的這個方向我們是一定要努力去做的這是考試院責無旁貸的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8520.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8543.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
因為這個保障問題我想剛好也要接下來提到的所謂公務人員今年報考人數我想近十年來這公務人員報考的考試人數從99年的53萬人到去年只剩下19萬人但是需用人數並沒有改變就是說每年提出來的需求還是那個比例但是報考人數這個持續降低我想第一個當然除了嫂子女花之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8544.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8571.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
哪些原因你認為如果你進考試院單人考試委員的話哪些原因有什麼辦法能夠提升公務人員考試的這個比例有更多原因投入公職因為當然第一個我多講一遍包含說這個退休金制度的改革我想也是影響現階段年輕人他不願意進來因為我既然當公務人員跟我在業界企業界上班其實他的退休保障制度是一樣的那不知道你單人考試委的話有什麼樣的方式能夠提升我們國家公務員考試的這個報考人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8573.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8588 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝我想原因有很多除了剛剛講到的少子女化之外我想最近民間的景氣非常好所以我們從比較長期的角度去看它其實是會有一些的循環 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8589.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8609.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
當然剛剛委員所提到的現在在公部門裡面的一些的勞動的條件或者是因為有些事件的報導對於整個公部門的形象可能也多多少少會有一些影響這個我想是未來可以再做一些努力比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8610.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8611.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8641.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8661.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝黃委員 謝謝被提名人李柏毅委員之詢問以書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報報告全院委員會對考試委員被提名人黃東益．答部分到此為止謝謝黃被提名人東益列席答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8663.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8671.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
報告全院委員會休息五分鐘休息之後進行對考試委員被提名人伊萬納威之詢問現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9058.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9073.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
報告全院委員會現在繼續開會進行審查考試委員被提名人伊萬納威之資格及是否事任相關事項現在請被提名人伊萬納威女士說明時間為10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9088.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9116.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生我是伊萬納威臺灣原住民族賽德克族承任國會助理、財團法人原住民文教基金會執行長原住民族委員會政務副主委以及第13屆考試委員先任為國立政治大學民主學系以及國立臺北教育大學文教法律研究所兼任助理教授契金 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9117.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9144.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
個人專長與原住民主政策與行政學術研究領域包括原住民主政策史與政治運動史、主義文化教育以及原住民主權益各項議題等1980年代大學時期政治援運興起深刻體會到原住民主在國家制度及主流社會結構性的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9145.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9160.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
自此更關注原住民主政策的各項發展無論擔任國會助理、基金會執行長、原民會政務副主委以及考試委員皆為族人權益竭盡心力 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9162.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9175.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
在擔任原民立委助理期間親身參與並扮演與在業黨合作的溝通橋樑也見證了原民立委發揮關鍵少數角色催生行政院原住民委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9177.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9197.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
擔任基金會執行長期間已成立原住民主政策諮詢委員會研議原住民主法案及政策並出版《跨世紀原住民政策白皮書》成為90年代中期以後原住民主政策的重要參考任職於原民會政務副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9199.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9225.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
輔佐推動重要政策包括﹐完成原住民語言發展法﹐修訂原住民主教育法﹐設置原住民主廣播電台﹐推動原住民主文化健康站﹐啟動南島論壇﹐以及原住民歷史正義轉型正義相關議題個人專業與長期累積的經驗﹐在文官制度的心格上﹐其能注入更多元的思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9227.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9248.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
在第13屆委員任內．本於上進考試委員的職權．擔任8次國家考試典事委員長．36次典事委員或分組召集人．4年來全勤參與200次院會．掌握考全保訓業務．以及各項法案的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9250.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9277.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
在各項會議過程．積極倡議族群．人權及性品意識．提升整體文觀．多元文化敏感度．以及為了因應少子女化．快速高齡化與家庭結構編纖等挑戰．近年修訂公務人員服務法．任用法、升遷法．退服法及留職停薪辦法等．建構我們公部門友善生養環境． |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9279.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9308.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
並持多元思維與嚴謹態度．極提出考選．全序退服及保訓相關政策及法令的建議．在團隊的共同努力下．已修訂30項法案．同時．極參與考試院及所屬部會的相關會議．並擔任委員．協助推動考選保訓的政策．包括擔任考試院．本院及所屬部會主管法令合議性檢討會 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9309.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9336.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
司法考試改革小組全學部公務員員傑出貢獻獎評審委員會考選部考選委員研究工作委員會國家精英記刊編輯委員會以及原住民組考試工作小組保訓會研編各項法定訓練課程性別平等教材諮詢委員會等並參與國家文官學院與考委有約座談會 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9336.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9355.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
聆聽參訓學員的心聲也協助規劃與辦理中央與地方政府包含原住民主鄉考全保訓的業務座談參訪南投縣、屏東縣、嘉義縣等地方政府海洋委員會海巡署、內政部消防署 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9356.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9373.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
農業部林務署、交通部觀光局阿里山國家風景管理處．法官學院、司法官學院等機關單位深入瞭解其考詮保訓議題所遭遇的困難與需求．透過歷次國家考試尋常的機會．請聽各種建言 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9376.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9391.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
此外COVID-19疫情期間﹐協力因應護理師人力荒﹐精進護理師考科試題﹐檢敵及增加護理師考試次數等﹐以貼近核心職能內涵﹐與提供充分答題為廣征 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9394.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9415.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
建言參訪臺灣護理學會及中華民國護理師護師公會全國聯會進行考全保訓業務座談以及與醫學大學及專科校院師生交流鼓勵在學醫護人才廣泛聽取更符合當前醫事人力的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9416.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9443.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
原住民族考試是獨步全球的制度是原民參與國家體制運作的重要途徑考試院近年來﹐積極回應社會及國人﹐對於多元文化價值的追求做出許多重大新格在文觀培育方面﹐也力求新的突破身為原住民族的一份子特別關注原住民族文觀人才培育及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9444.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9463.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
以及解決原住民特考長期所面臨的諸項困境例如原住民族在整體文觀結構中比例偏低根據111年數據顯示原住民族公務人員僅佔全國公務人員數的1.84%以致代表性不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9464.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9493.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
原名特考報考率及到考率逐年遞減錄取率偏低提缺逐年下降以及不足額錄取等困境有鑑於此連結考試院三個部會原住民組委員會、教育部以及行政院人事總處等建立原住民組考試工作小組並擔任交集人以教考、訓用、全面性角度來延伸原住民組考試及文官的處境 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9494.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9521.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
為貼近原住民族考試的核心職能與彰顯原住民族行政主體性內涵．以及解決長期不足額錄取等困境．配合高普考檢科．原住民族考試科目也同步檢科．重新調整普通科目．獨立原住民族行政與法規．以及調整普通科目與專業科目的成績占比．來減緩錄取不足額的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9522.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9543.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
為鼓勵原住民青年學子參加國家考試．並充分提供大專校院原住民學生對於國家考試的相關資訊．主動規劃並敦促考選部與教育部及園民會等協力．透過原住民組資源中心北中南東區的網絡．進行國家考試與原住民考試的宣導與座談 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9546.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9560.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
鼓勵更多原住民青年參與國家體制的運作同時要求全書部專列原住民行政直系並修正原住民組行政直系說明書以符合原住民組行政實際的工作內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9562.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9579.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
考全保訓制度與政策．仍有許多上代新革的地方．包括多元選材方式．加強用人機關參與選材．深化整體文化敏感度．以及公司部門人才交流等精進作為． |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9581.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9598.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
若能獲得大院同意．仍將持續積極認識．推動各項政策與革新．提升國家文官專業能力素養．並確保文官體制的健全與永續以上報告 敬請委員支持、指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9605.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9619.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
伊萬納威被提名人之說明現在進行委員詢問每位委員詢答時間20分鐘即問即答方式進行輪到詢問委員如不在場視為棄權首先請楊委員求您詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9627.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9639.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
兩群發言 敬愛的院會主席、江副院長、被提名者以及我們各位同仁、新聞界的朋友那首先邀請被提名者被提名的人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9649.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9670.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
委員好你好提名者剛剛在你的自我說明介紹當中本席也聽到了你的用心你也參與過了很多過去你在原民會擔任職務的時候參與了推動許多與原民民族相關的政策跟改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9672.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9696.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
但是在你的說明當中也就是目前政府在做的這個機制包括了我本席非常重視的新年的原住民要怎麼樣讓他能夠加入在我們整個公務的體系因為我們非常的清楚知道在整個文官人才的這個部分我們要怎麼樣達到永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9697.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9723.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
以及穩定穩健的這個人數我想這是目前考試院非常重要的一個課題那所以在這樣的情況之下為什麼我們原住民的特考他最重要的困境是人數參與者越來越少而且他的比例占比在我們整個國家的體系來講我們只有一點多% |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9725.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9749.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
換句話說這個比例根本不足以來服務我們原住民的現象所以在這樣的一個基礎下本席再提一個背景在我們升格為直轄市之後原住民的朋友他講的一句話讓我終生難忘而且非常深刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9751.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9767.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
當時為了一些建設大家在做討論結果一個原住民的朋友告訴我因為我們直轄市的區長是要用指派他不用選的直轄市那比如說台中市我們有和平區 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9770.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9792.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
高雄納瑪夏、茂林、桃園、新北烏來等桃園更有復興鄉直轄市原住民區原本也是用直派但是這個朋友告訴我一句話我們要的你不給我你們給我的我們不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9798.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9822.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我想被提名者你頻頻點頭跟微笑這個是心聲所以當時我們立即有行動怎麼做呢我們立即行動修改了法律也就是在直轄市裡的原住民區我們仍舊區長用選的當然選了之後你必須還要有民意機關所以代表會還要選 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9824.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9850.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
當然我們還有一個討論的方向就是說原住民區的區長是要以原住民身份為主但是代表會的主席就不一定因為我們還是要有大融合的這個概念到目前為止執行是如此那本席之所以講這個背景也就是剛剛你在報告當中你說明得很清楚目前做了什麼但是本席要跟你討論的是目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9851.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9875.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
雖然你們這麼努力的在做但是答案是不盡理想的他的參與特考的人數是減少他得到的參與工作的比例也是不成比例所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教未來有機會的時候你如何來確保原住民特考制度的公平性跟透明性 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9876.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9890.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
真正有作為具體的去改革這些計畫來提升整個功能跟效能請做說明謝謝委員對人民參政權如此的關心而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9891.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9906.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
也是確實在當時我們聽到很多族人的反應我們希望可以選出我們自己的族人作為我們的區長或鄉長還好有做了這樣的一個調整非常感謝委員的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9907.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9933.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
至於原住民考試其實一直到原民會因為原民會是1996年成立的那2002年的時候我們的原住民特考才比較穩定的每年在辦理我們的人才就是公務人才本席希望不好意思插到你的話本席希望聽到你具體的建議而不是敘述目前在做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9934.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9951.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這一些的軌跡我們都非常關心也非常了解本儀希望聽到你具體的建議請做說明在上一任我在考試院的時候我就特別跟我的考選部就是特別跟他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9952.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9959.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
Iwan Nawi為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9973.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9996.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
報考原住民的人數逐漸下降這件事情是探討一些原因是什麼樣的原因那第二個就是說我們如何去提升或去鼓勵我們的原住民青年可以報考國家考試所以我們在即便是在疫情當中我們都在一個可行的一個時間去 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10001.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10019.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
教育部的原住民資源中心有北中南東他是跨區的原住民大專學生的一個組織我們就透過這樣的一個組織帶著我們考選部還有我們今天不好意思再度插斷你的話因為你還是在敘述故事 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10020.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10041.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
講述過程本席是希望聽到你具體的建議因為您現在所說的跟第一趴本席的提問回答都一樣都是在目前執行之本席希望以下的回答希望聽到你具體的建議就成了為什麼我本席特別提出我們在直轄市一旦發生了我要給你的你不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10042.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10064.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我要的你不給我所以我們具體行動將選務的方式去改變到目前為止執行尚可我們還嚴肅的在看待這才是真正的來照顧原住民的朋友接下來本期要跟你討論的也就是說我們一直很強調語言如果不見了就沒有辦法溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10065.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10085.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
所以原住民的文化跟語言的考試納入這個是本席非常非常關注的那你致力於這個主語的振興與文化的教育的推動這是你非常置入的所以本席要請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10086.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10107.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
原住民的語言跟文化希望能夠更加的融合在相關的公務人員的考試制度當中來增強對族群的一個需求跟回應但是本席認為如果只有在考試加入那麼要怎麼樣去推動如何的去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10108.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10129.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因為我們必須要有配套本期希望聽到你的論述請做說明謝謝委員現在目前原住民考試他有一個足以認證的一個應考條件就是說在語法法通過以後他就要求所有報考原名特考的這個應考人他要有初級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10131.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10148.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個認證那在今年開始我們是要求到中級以上這個變成一個應考資格的條件之一這個就是公部門未來在服務員名的時候他必須有自己的主語能力能夠更貼近我們的服務這個也就是本席直接跟你討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10149.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10164.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
剛才本席說的如果只有加注語言的項目在他必要條件的制度裡頭的一個因子但是你要如何的去推動你要如何的去推動這才是重點請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10166.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10191.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
因為現在目前我們是在考試的這個應考人的條件已經受了這樣的一個要求那接下來可能就是說他在服務的過程可能還是要用族語服務他的族人所以我們在相關的在公務體系裡面也有要求我們的原住民公務人員也能夠有一個族語能力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10192.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10217.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這一個可以讓他在他服務的機關裡面通過更高級的這個主語認證那這樣的話其實他在服務他的主任．會能夠貼近主任的一個需求．也比較能夠瞭解更高級的一個主語認證所以本協還是希望在這一點我們雖然加入了這個主語的認證在考試的這個必要條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10218.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10233.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
但是仍就希望在進入之後要怎麼推動相關的配套要怎麼做本席認為這才是重點也希望多於著墨這個方向接下來本席要請教考試院對於整個多元族群的友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10234.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10262.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
的一個改革這個非常的重要考試院你要如何在整個文官的招募考核跟訓練中來落實整個多元文化的一個包容那麼你認為必須缺口在哪裡可以怎麼樣加入這樣子的一個方向對我們原住民的族群能夠民主可以更加的達到友善的這個程度請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10262.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10290.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
首先就是在考試科目裡頭我們有放了原住民主政策從一等到五等我們都有相關的一些考科原住民主文學、原住民主文化、原住民主歷史我們都有包含在裡面那另外在保訓會訓練的部分訓練裡面最主要有基礎訓練跟升官等的一個訓練我們都有把相關的內容都含在裡面就是說包括人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10291.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10316.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
許多元文化、新住民等議題都放在培訓課程裡這個部分本席還是希望因為您也參與其中很久推動很多但是本席還是要反推我們目前的結果論是特考人數減少我們目前依照你們的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10317.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10330.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那麼擔任的比例是不成比例一點多的比例所以如果只有依照目前的方案那我相信本席認為要提高他的效能是不足以 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10332.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10358.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以我仍舊希望再去研議你在保訓方面可以怎麼樣再加強這一點是我覺得我們今天在做討論的時候希望聽到論述跟論點的而不是一再的在講述故事講述目前的執行那接下來我要再請教生養友善的環境這非常的重要陳如妮剛才說的針對於新住民新住民都是我們的家人 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10359.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10383.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那也幫助了我們的家庭非常的大我們都要愛她那包括了我們有一些原住民民主的女性特殊需求那這些情況有的她住在偏鄉有的單親有的隔代教養這項的情況那我們要怎麼樣來有支持的這些措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10384.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10413.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
因為好不容易有我們的這個民主族群如果我們沒有保護他他的困難我們沒有協助他那你根本不可能有怎麼樣的發揚光大不可能你要先解決他的問題讓他安心有靠山這是政府必須要做的所以本席再請教其中在公務體系當中推動我們整個原住民族女性特殊需求你認為還可以加速哪一些的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10415.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10438.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
請做說明謝謝委員這次提到友善生養環境特別關注這個議題是確實看到我們女性在公務體系更辛苦因為她又要生育又要照顧家庭我們就在這一個相關的生育環境的制度上我們去怎麼樣去協助她們 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10439.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10460.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
譬如說從育嬰假來說育嬰假我們不希望只有女性去承擔應該要這個是我們在立法院三讀通過也就是爸爸也可以請育嬰假去做調配而且我們還告訴雇主因為原本是女性現在我們是男性也可以兩性均權那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10462.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10486.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個被提名者本席還是告訴你本席希望聽到你的論述而不是立法院通過的現在在執行因為他就是不夠不夠友善所以希望聽到你的建言是 跟我原報告因為在相關的這個制度上的一個設計我們修訂了這個服務法、任用法、升遷法跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10487.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10512.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
對 因為這個部分都涉及到如果他請假或者是說他擔心他去議應以後他能不能回到他原來的工作這個就是在任用法裡面要去訂定的所以這個在我們的法條裡頭也有命定但是我們是在監管當我們法案通過之後要執行我們代表還會去看他的執行成效是如何所以我一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10514.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10535.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
在善意的跟你討論我希望聽到你的論點你從頭到尾都只有告訴我目前的執行這不是我本席要聽的因為你是一個被提名者我們希望你現在不是考試委員那目前社會的面向我們告訴你所以希望你有你的論點你的建言你的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10537.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10555.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個才能夠深得大家的同意啊你不是目前政府的一個闡述者、描述者不是所以接下來我要跟你討論的是應對數位化挑戰的準備因為我們知道現在AI的社會那數位化是全球的時勢所需 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10556.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10571.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
但是隨著考試制度的數位轉型你認為在我們的原住民民主的地區裡頭考生我不忍心的說在整個考生他在數位資源的普及度他比較弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10572.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10598.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那在這樣的情況之下為了要讓他們也能夠公平的來參與考試那我們有什麼樣的作為呢能夠協助在這樣子資訊資源不對等的情況之下我們要怎麼樣協助比如說我們是不是可以來用一個遠距考試的方式還是怎麼樣去彌補它不足的地方請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10599.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10627.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
謝謝委員這個數位落差確實是我們在考試院特別就是在討論這些工作的時候我們有特別去建議考選部要注意這方面的一個發展因為我們現在當然還沒有考慮到要用遠距的方式來考試但是呢我們有分區就是說如果接近比較多原名的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10627.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10629.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
Iwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10652.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10679.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
本席歡迎聽到你看到了問題但是目前還沒有方法那所以我也非常的希望你在這一方面要多於琢磨我們要真正的有行動來幫助我們的原住民本席再舉一個例像我們的口譯老師非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10680.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10701.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
他全國跑這個老師太辛苦了那怎麼樣讓他能夠安心這個也是我們務必要去做的所以我們希望真正用行動來協助特別在數位方面在整個資源落差偏鄉這些的方式我們要怎麼樣去協助我也希望未來能夠聽到你的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10702.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10714.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那麼考試院裡頭呢針對於我們最近大家討論的非常精彩而且豐富民主國家本來就是各自有各自的論點在我們的年金改革當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10715.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10734.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我們大家都一致說明希望要能夠真正的這個退伏基金是要真正的能夠來照顧退休者的生活對不對是那突然間來了一個年金改革現在更要說每年的所得替代率要減少1.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10737.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10766.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
但是我們看到中高齡的這個CPI的一個指標他已經比一般平均值、全國的平均值他的需求更高比如說主計總署最近所做出來中高年齡層在CPI的增長是2.8%一般的只有2.5%所以換句話說中高齡就是這些退休者他的生活的支出因為通膨的關係越來越多當然不只是食材 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10767.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10782.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
他要健康他當然要吃吃嘛接下來就是身體的保養他的醫療支出所以這些我們也再請黨委去考慮把這些的中綱領的必要因子應該納入在裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10783.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10812.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
四年一次的CPI的平均值再來做調整本席認為這個不符合目前通膨的這個進度所以我們建議是兩年不要達到四年所以本席要具體的請教你認為所得替代率逐年的遞減到目前是政府跟公務人員他的一個約定誠信你認為是不是應該要停止調降所得替代率 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10813.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10826.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我想這個年金改革是我們整個國家的這個年金的整個制度的就你的立場看法我想這個最近我們的了解是假如我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10828.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10854.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
就你的立場看法對當然我們也希望是越來越高就是說退休以後還有那個但是因為我知道不是越來越高是現在要遞減所以我告訴你本期告訴你我們終止目標一定要誠信對於退休者的生活一定要好好照顧你認同這一點吧我認同加油好謝謝楊委員也謝謝貝提米人 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10855.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10874.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
接下來請舒喬惠委員詢問好謝謝主席我們請伊萬納威委員我們請貝提米人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10881.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10897.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
委員好伊萬納威委員您好請問我有正確稱呼您的名字嗎非常好謝謝委員謝謝我想能正確稱呼您的名字是一種基本的尊重好那委員我也想跟您請教因為您其實現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10898.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10924.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
是現任的考試委員也就是您已經擔任過一屆現在這一屆的提名其實是一個續任所以我想您應該很清楚今天在這裡接受我們大家的質詢詢問的時候會面對哪些問題我想您應該非常清楚吧現在考試委員在您擔任過四年之後您認為考試委員最大的職權核心是什麼考試委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10925.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10944.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
當然這個除了保障我們的公務人員所有的大概跟公務人員有關的制度大概都是在我們考試院是 保障公務人員是另外一個應該就是選拔合適的公務人員到政府體制吧對而您作為其實真的就是所有考試委員當中唯一的一個原住民委員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10945.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10974.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以原住民是否能夠適當的進入到國家行政體系當中我想這是你責無旁貸的任務大家今天也都會就教你這個部分那委員您剛剛也提到了其實你上一屆和這一屆你的自我描述你的履歷、自傳當中提到的幾乎是一樣的問題第一個就是原住民特考原住民的人數其實是不足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10974.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10993.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
是這是第一點第二點你提到的是文化敏感度我覺得就第一點第一點這個原住民特考人數不足參與的人數不足錄取的人數也不足所以代表性不足這一點先跟你就講你認為代表性不足到底是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10994.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11009.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個部署是相對於我們全國公務人員的那個比例如果你這個回答我完全同意因為我給你看一個表我自己做的完全跟你的意見是一致的也就是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11009.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11029.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
現在你看從2018到2023原住民族公務人員占全國的比例其實是從你當年上任1.87到現在幾年過去了反而是下降的現在只占了1.84反而是下降可是你說原住民人口占全國人口數的比例也一樣是下降嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11030.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11030.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11055.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11082.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
因為效果沒什麼差別我們就不用解決這個問題啦所以有什麼問題嗎這個情況就是說我們是希望我們有更充分的人力是在公部門跟這個國家制度一起運作但是因為我們現在人少對所以就是說我們參與國家運作這件事情我們就變得比較沒有力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11083.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11094.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
對所以我們希望是可以再擴大那我所知道的現在我們雖然並沒有規定是說公部門一定要禁用多少原住民公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11096.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11117.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
只有在非公務人員方面有五類的一些技工還有等等這些可以在他有一個規定禁用比例但是我們公務人員是沒有的所以我們每年的提缺的機關其實是很有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11118.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11140.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我想打斷你的這個回答因為我想聽到您的答案其實是一個簡短的很簡單的答案也是我這幾年的感受我想委員您應該非常清楚我嫁給了一個阿美族所以我現在的家庭是一半是漢人的觀念但一半是阿美族群的觀念我也在立法院的質詢過程當中質詢過多次所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11144.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11151.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
公務機關缺乏原住民視角的問題會是什麼很簡單就像我當年去報戶口的時候我要用傳統姓名幫我的孩子報戶口藍未不足這個問題到現在這麼多年終於解決了但當時還發生另外一個問題是當藍未不足的時候他填上去的是寫什麼他填上去寫建計是藍 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11170.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11187.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
所以後來我收到衛生所要通知我去注射疫苗孩子的疫苗注射單的時候我是什麼人我是健記事欄媽媽欸為什麼因為他Excel表格一抽出來他只抽姓名欄出來啊他沒有因為我是 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11187.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11214.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
原住民族或者是我是其他的他有任何注意到的管道或方式他就Excel直接抽出來列成名條貼成通知單寄到我的手中所以我不是任何人的媽媽我叫做建記式懶媽媽那這個問題是什麼當我去反應的時候公務人員絲毫沒有覺得愧疚或不便他頂多跟你說啊抱歉你聽到那個抱歉你知道他沒有任何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11215.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11240.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
感受誠意跟你一樣的難過在裡面嘛所以我們在說的為什麼公務機關裡面要有原住民的族人在裡面有一定比例甚至為什麼第二點我們需要有文化敏感度其實都是因為這個國家是原住民的族人共同在這裡生存的生活的 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11240.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11263.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以我們要有我們的視角和觀點在裡面我們也希望代表國家執行業務的公務人員具有原住民的視角增加原住民族人在公務機關的比例和使非原住民族人具有文化敏感度這是同樣的道理啊不是嗎是所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11264.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11286.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
文化敏感度增加原住民代表是同一件事情好那如果是這樣的話是為了讓我們的族群主流化可以更被實踐更被看見那我就想問委員請問您四年前就看到了這個問題四年來您做了哪些努力哪些有成效可不可以和我們分享一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11287.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11312.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
是謝謝委員因為這個文化敏感度其實是在我四年前同樣在這個地方是啊你有提過啊我看到你的自傳坦白講一模一樣四年就是說這四年當中特別在考慮到一些制度的一些改變的時候我會特別提醒全序部包括在訓練方面我也是會提醒保訓會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11314.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11332.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們的課程在哪裡那哪一些是具體的我其實沒有在任何的資料看到您的具體的文化敏感度的部分但我們先講原住民特考的這個部分好了原住民特考剛剛說人數下降我也聽到您在回答前一位委員的時候你說你成立了一個小組叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11335.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11349.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
原住民考試工作小組對 謝謝委員提到了這樣子的一個結合了考試院、教育部和園民會的單位可是我剛剛應該沒有聽錯您是說上個月才提 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11350.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11372.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
上個月才建立了這個小組是嗎沒有是我剛上任就是上一屆的大概第二年第二年那個時候有跟所以已經工作了兩年了是是好那我在這裡我就想聽您回答也請你再被巡台正式的回答這兩年你做了哪一些努力所以有哪一些成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11373.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11388.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
跟委員報告就是說這個工作小組我們解決一個原住民考科的問題我看到檢科對檢科以外我們還有在精檢就是要符合原住民的這個核心職能的科目例如 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11389.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11416.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
多出來的我們就抽掉了就很多科目了比如說原住民歷史與文化這個歷史與文化到底是要考歷史還是文化之類的而且每個組別都不一樣啊到底要考哪一科哪一組會調整是這樣的一個精進的一個做法另外就是我們也注意到原住民的普通科目成績比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11417.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11444.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
但是他的專業科目比較不理想所以我就認為是有沒有機會去把這個部分做微調所以調整了什麼調整了就是把那個普通科目稍微調高一點專業科目我們稍微調低一點然後呢把那個共同科目普通科目裡面把原住民行政與法規那一科獨列出來讓他比較容易就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11446.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11471.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
他任職以前他就對原住民組行政與法規就有一個基本的認識透過考試去強化所以今年就開始實施了今年實施以後可能委員還沒看到相關的報告我們都沒有看到報告所以我們不知道成效是什麼那個成效是我們今年的原住民特考的那個錄取人數提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11472.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11493.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
今年有提高嗎從前年開始我們有13%的錄取率然後前年也是13%今年我們因為有這樣的一個變革以後呢我們的人數錄取人數到了15%這個部分就是說我們好像看到這樣的一個調整有看到一點點效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11495.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11518.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
委員我跟您討論這個的原因是還包括了我們看到我們的統計在原住民特考的需用人數和錄取人數的這個表單上面可以很清楚的看到其實從2020到2024年其實這個缺口是一直在擴大當中所以如果你說現在的這個是米評有提高的話那這是哪一年的這個報告因為我們現在手上的是2024年的這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11521.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11530.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
所以是全部嗎?你指的是全部考科嗎?委員這邊表格看到那個錄取人數118 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11535.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11558.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
對118是錄取人數我是說他的比例就是說所以你是用比例來看用比例是15%那表示進步的空間還非常的大看起來這樣是有一幅進步但是空間還非常的大因為我在跟你討論另外一個是其實您剛剛說雖然有錄取人數增加可是我們也看到另外一個現象是特定科目是缺人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11559.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11581.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
特定科目確認我現在讓你看這個表單其實很清楚的可以看見你在行政部分也就是可能符合你剛剛說的普通科目原住民族考得比較好原住民的族人考得比較好但特定科目專業科目考得比較沒那麼理想好那你再看如果是專業科目的話其實從財稅行政、土木工程、農業技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11583.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11612.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這個入取需用人數、入取人數其實都差距太遠了而且是所有項目裡面幾乎是不及格、不達標的狀況好 那我們就想問兩個問題不曉得身為現在以還是考試委員的你有沒有看出來第一個 那這個科目到底有沒有需要一定要是原住民身份來考他開原住民特考在這一個項目是有意義的嗎這是第一件事情還有他的需求人數列這麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11612.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11631.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那跟他現在的需求是一樣嗎需要21個原住民身份的人做這件事可是卻只來5個這不是很奇怪嗎這是第一件事情如果不需要原住民身份那乾脆把缺放出來趕快讓人補足公務機關有人運作不是比較好嗎第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11631.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11656.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
第2個這3個項目我特別挑出來的原因是因為我們在國內大專院校都有原住民族專班有專班那有專班為什麼我們的教考和用會落差如此之大這既然你有考試專案的小組那也應該要去特別調查這是我列這3個特別列這3項的原因它特別的第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11657.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11663.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11675.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11696.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這個成立專班的建議是由原民會建議給我們教育部我是把這樣的一個現象提供給他們就是說是不是按照我們現在所缺的這些人才是不是教育部特別也幫我們注意一下在開設專班的時候你覺得教育部的速度好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11699.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11725.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
委員我是認為您很有很大的機會是有機會能夠通過這次的審查續任您應該有四年的經驗了我們非常期待如果您這次可以順利通過的話看到你過去有這一些起步了那麼未來的四年是可以用更快的速度來執行因為有太多的工作需要做這是我們族人朋友最大的期待委員我想請問您當時為什麼來考公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11728.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11755.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
你還記得嗎我沒有考公務人員那你為什麼來進入到公務人員體系裡面抱歉我應該修正我的問題抱歉是對不起委員因為這一個部分是我有機會在2005年我擔任過原民會主委的機要秘書開始對啊所以你進入到了公共體系那如果你現在去跟青年學子去招募的話他們為什麼要進來公務體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11758.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11761.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
坦白講這是一個錢少事多離家遠的狀態啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11763.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11791.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這個也是一個問題公務人員是很辛苦的所以你與其研究再多你應該要問自己如果我要去招募學生的話我要用什麼可以讓他們有這個熱情加入公務體系不是應該是這樣嗎所以今天特別把剛剛還沒有做到的原住民的行政人員特考如何能夠再加強還有文化敏感度的這個部分跟您就教那另外呢我也想請教委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11792.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11802.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我想請問平原跟山原在現在的台灣社會有差別嗎?平原跟山原的視角有差別嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11804.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11821.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
還是有不一樣因為居住的環境不太一樣那所以在觀點上如果你這樣回答的話應該是說每個族群其實都不一樣吧對 各族有各族的一些因為你賽德克族跟我們阿美族其實就完全不一樣的視角啊但賽德克族跟少族是一樣視角嗎你們住得滿近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11822.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11850.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
嗯,不會,因為他們也有他們自己的文化體系那你們跟賽德克族跟泰雅族的視角有一樣嗎?也不會所以即便是三元也是有不一樣的視角那麼公務員員來任用,原住民來擔任公務員員需要具備有三元或平元的特定身份嗎?目前是沒有分三元平元那有哪一個科目是用三元或平元來區分的嗎?沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11850.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11876.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那你覺得應該要區分嗎大概就是這參政權可能會分山園跟平原其他的面向應該是都沒有什麼所以來做公務人員應該區分山園或平原嗎以目前來說是沒有那個必要沒有那個必要對那園民會主委應該由山園跟平原輪流做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11878.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11879.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
強制的輪流做 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11887.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11911.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
應該不是那麼不是那麼需要啦三元跟平原要聯合做的這個概念符合全體族人的想法多數好了不要說全體他的服務對象是全原住民沒有再分平原或三元或者說你是平原我要有平原的什麼幾乎是沒有他要面對的是全國原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11912.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11935.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以你的意思應該跟你在選拔所有優秀的人才進入公務體系一樣我們要的是優秀的人才進公務體系而進入公務體系的也應該以能夠照顧全體族人甚至國人為前提為宗旨這才是一個好的公務人這樣講應該是合理正確的吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11935.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11962.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以以三員和平員來區分這個工作我想是在公務體系當中沒有這個必要而且我們現在在各層級的公務人員體系當中甚至在原住民特考當中也沒有用這樣的身份區別是吧是 只要他是原住民有原住民身份他就可以未來會加上這樣子的一個限制嗎不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11963.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11984.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
也不會吧說實在的今天在這裡我想您這樣子的回答其實也是某種程度具備了文化敏感性這樣的狀況所以在我們希望的社會當中其實是各位所有一起相處的國人朋友都能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11986.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12006.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
實時刻刻轉換自己的視角用原住民的視角來看待事物有時候你會發現事情跟你想像的不太一樣有時候這個衝突跟爭執也是因此而可以消弭最後的時間一分鐘的時間主委我想請問如果您這一件能夠委員這一件我想請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12008.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12034.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
在這一分鐘的時間如果您這次能夠順利的通過審查再次續任您最想完成的任務是什麼我最想完成的任務應該是一個是原住民的這個參加特考的人數可以讓他有一個成長的一個設定目標嗎對因為上一任主要因為我們遇到疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12034.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12060.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我原本是已經都規劃的一個非常就是說在這兩三年我可能要進入到學校去做一些這個宣導也好或座談本來有很好的規劃可是因為剛好遇到疫情然後就是比較零星了那我希望如果有機會讓我連任的話我還要在這方面包括考試的精進我還會繼續來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12062.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12085.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
委員我們看到了你在考試科目上的努力那我們在這裡也是提醒如果你才有機會能夠繼續進入學校宣導是招募更多的青年朋友來擔任公職進入這個政府體系的話我們希望你要也用青年的角度記得你服務的熱情這才是根本之好謝謝蘇委員謝謝被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12091.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12093.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
下一位請蔓玉珍委員詢問謝謝副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12120.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12135.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
有請我們的納威委員請被提名人伊萬納威委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12138.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12163.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
委員好,因為你是十三屆的委員也是要稱呼你委員我也知道說你是代表原住民所以我們也是很支持原住民所以跟高津也是一直為我們原住民爭取一些福利所以今天就是有幾點想要請教你在原住民特考 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12164.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12181.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
的目的是促進原住民族群人才進入公務體系並提升原住民的社會與公共事務參與然而依我所知今年原住民的特考 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12182.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12197.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
開缺數量減少指等也降低了分發的機構選擇也比較集中未達成我們設立的特考的機制初衷 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12201.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12225.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
跟委員報告剛剛所提的問題主要是現在其實原住民現在的選擇因為一方面因為我們也面臨比較客觀的一些比如說少子女化那當然原住民現在選擇的比較多元年輕人現在選擇的工作也比較多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12227.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12244.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
選擇比較多元所以去考試的人是比較少是這樣子嗎還是說我們是派錢就有領薪水一百多萬就不用去考還有一個原因應該是現在很多原住民我們現在退僱大概60%已經在都市裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12248.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12268.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
所以他有時候來考這個員特我們是接到是因為我們認為因為看到很多我也是很多的原住民就是在讀碩士的朋友因為我們靜怡大學百分之八十的都是原住民的朋友他們都覺得是考 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12269.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12284.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
特考的制度還有目前偏離初中所以考試院採用哪一些具體的措施跟改善讓更多我們原住民的朋友來去考試這個才是我們的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12287.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12312.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
對,但是考試院因原住民組的公務人員．在這體系中發展並貢獻的專業．所以實際上公平與能．就是這個效能．要回應到這次制度．還有設立的初衷．希望這樣子的話．會更多的我們的原住民．願意去考這樣子的特考 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12314.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12333.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
還有就是說因為你現在是在希望就是續聘所以在你的任內對研究民的特考的貢獻如何對於研究民錄取名額和分發的單位你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12335.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12343.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
跟委員報告現在我們原名特考的錄取人數其實這三年有成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12344.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12371.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
在那個錄取率也提高了那剛剛提到一個分發單位的部分因為我們現在原名特考但是依據工作權保障法所以他的分發地區都是原鄉就是原住民族地區跟就是說辦理原住民事務就是他是被限縮就是說將來是說工作限縮還是特考的限縮還是說他的發揮的分發分發 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12373.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12395.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
分發比如說他入局了比如說我考上了我只能去辦理原住民事務或者是到原鄉是所以有一些就是如果已經在都市裡面的原住民他可能就不會有這個意願說我要考公務員所以你看到這樣子你覺得有什麼事要什麼方法可以改善或者對他們更有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12396.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12417.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
可能我們就是從法制面比如說工作權保障法你個人的想法怎麼去推啊所以法制面也要有人推嘛有人去推才能去執行啊是就是在工作權保障法方面我們可以怎麼處理就是說去保障各機關對原住民公務人員的這個禁用 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12419.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12446.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
所以我們希望就是要優化分發到各個單位不要集中在一個機構對大家也是要讓大家在不同的地方來去發揮這樣才是對我們的特考人員才是公平也讓他有就很大的發揮的空間所以你也擔任過我們的原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12447.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12467.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
主委、副主委嘛考試院就是因協調人事總署及人民會這樣提出長期的改善還有就是這樣的計畫剛才有次問過你希望你就是要關於這樣子的平台要多琢磨、多用心 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12470.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12493.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好所以希望還有我們再來就想要請教你關於我們新住民我們臺灣民眾黨三個會期有推一個新住民基本法在7月16號就是三讀通過在8月12日呢總統也公告內政部也依新住民基本法第4條在籌備 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12497.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12515.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
三級機關新住民發展署所以你知道有這個法嗎我知道我有掌握謝謝委員所以爭取這個法我們新住民基本法第9條規定政府應與國家考試設立新住民事務相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12517.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12544.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
類科以應應新住民公屋之需求還有第18條政府應鼓勵新住民．入公共參與推進多元文化所以以上的籌備就是新住民發展署現在我們是簡稱新發署因為這個名稱也是我們內政部他們自己說的所以幾章就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12545.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12565.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
服務全國的新住民但是面對新住民多元的語言與文化的背景新發署在國家考試與行政用人需求上如何應用還有關於全國新住民的權益所以你可以詳細說明關於這個考試的規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12570.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12597.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
是首先恭喜委員我特別可以感受委員因為過去原名也有同樣的一些經歷那今天走到這一步是非常好的一個進展那至於就是有關這個新住民行政類科這件事是只要未來這個新發署成立之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12598.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12610.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
因為他會是用人機關只要提出新住民行政類科我們考試院就可以辦理相關的考試這個是沒有問題的當然啦 考試院沒有問題但是問題說這樣子的類科關於這個類科的考試還有應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12617.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12617.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12638.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12658.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這個新住民行政類科他會當然一般我們還是有一個行政法或者是一些他的專業的法制那我相信因為你是代表我們的原住民你有當過一屆了你應該知道說我們的考試院怎麼樣去編怎麼樣去類科怎麼樣去考 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12661.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12673.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我希望就是我們這個發展署成立後就是有相關這樣子的規定還有制度應該你更清楚才對那是我聽起來好像你都打太極拳了 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12675.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12694.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以新住民國家考試可能也是面臨就是語言的障礙還有文化的差異考試院也是針對新住民進入公務或者公職人員的挑戰所以一定要設計一些就是知識的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12695.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12714.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
譬如說語言、輔導或者是說一些相關的教育有哪些不一樣這個才是真正的配套所以不是說我們就是講的你們的考試院的功能考試院功能不用你講我們都知道是說你未來的發展你要怎麼去用 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12715.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12716.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12738.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12753.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
人多就是需要這樣子的人去服務所以需要這樣的人去服務當然是語言還有一些文化不同一定會有一些差異所以就是提醒你也是讓你知道有這樣子的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12755.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12783.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
因為台灣我們新住民在台灣是希望有機會幫不同領域的服務人員不管是公務人員還是公職人員還有各領域希望也要提升這樣子的服務的品質還有促進社會的融合所以新住民發展署因應考試院公務人員考試要設置一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12783.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12811.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
增加列科的處理的重點要處理的要點這個部分我希望你真正的是用原住民當過委員的高度來去做這件事情來回我這個問題因為在高考還有涉及新住民的列科所以推動相關的機關新住民事務相關的列科經用人員也保障新住民的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12813.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12838.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
你獲得上任後你要如何去做也如何積極來去做這件事情因為我已經給你的一個方向還有目標因為我覺得好像是我還比你還會當那個考試員所以問你的都是白問的所以你講完這個你有什麼想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12839.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12864.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
委員剛剛特別提到新增類科的處理要點事實上就是為未來的新發屬的人力要透過國家考試來禁用先有一個考試所以將來如果我有機會我一定會全力幫忙相關的一些預備的工作然後讓這個考試能夠順利讓我們禁用 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12869.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12871.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12895.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12910.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
有錢有權就算一律平等就是這個目的所以我們就要分的話就是要有不一樣的就是要分不一樣的所以外界對於考試院的行政院在人事行政權上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12912.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12936.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
執掌都重疊了效率不佳也有成餘力所以在2020年8月6日當時權敘部部長也是現在的本屆考試院的院長被提名人周弘憲先生有提到現在社會各界與各黨都主張廢除考 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12938.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12956.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
考監兩院多數認為考試院職權併入行政院而監察院職權併入立法院比較妥當證實了非考兩院的聲音其來有之你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12958.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12983.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
呃 我不認為呃 現在需即化因為好 如果你不認為的話就是有專業學者有提到嘛齁考試院只管經用齁 不管進場功能已分到其他各院了所以考試院已需即化了所以請教我們委員你認為考試院的角色是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12984.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12993.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
除了剛剛我們講考試以外有關公務人員的文官制度的一個重要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12998.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13017.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這個角色當然就是從考試然後到成為公務人員然後包括他的如果你是這麼說的話就像我們部長說關於公務人員所以要跟你們溝通因為他沒辦法當當說他自己要怎麼樣去處理所以說變成你說這樣子你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13019.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13042.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
會有這個當當來去做像你說這樣子的應用嗎如果你覺得說有你是否支持憲法修正就是沒有就是要廢除考試院你沒有你沒有支持嗎所以你要請我們的就是請知我們的那個就是那個什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13046.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13059.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
前序部就是支持這樣子的論點我們希望我們的委員在本黨的問卷中回應你的回應就是尊重國會以民意的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13059.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13070.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
但我問的是你真正的意向不要是說回應別人說的不是你說的這樣只是你當這樣子的職務你怎麼樣負這個責任我們怎麼樣把這個票投給你呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13076.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13103.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
跟委員報告現在目前是五權憲法五權分立嘛就在這個架構假如考試院還在我們就是還有這個職權那假如我們討論到最後或者是修憲以後但是我們的就是提名人我們的院長他都敢大膽這樣去講了你自己的話是被提名你都沒有任何你的意向嗎也沒有你任何的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13104.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13123.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
所以考試院是實際已經續集化了公務人員的考機法由行政院掌管公務人員懲戒法歸屬監察院與司法院憲法應修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13124.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13144.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
就是廢除考試院．將人事任用考選權統一．單一的機關提升效力．也是避免職權重疊．節約資源．實際就是簡化．讓我們政府做事更有效力是 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13147.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13170.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
是嘛 你也認同嘛認同就是把各兩院廢掉所以文官體系是國家應用的根本所以我們國家已經超過365萬我們的公務人員保障公務人員的權益還有保障我們國家穩定的防容近期就是勞動部長的勞 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13174.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13182.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
發展署的北分署發生一起公務人員就是親身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13185.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13207.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
所以勞動部發展署我們的北分署這邊還有我們勞動部長說調查報告將霸凌惡行美化成為利益良善這樣的話引發我們全國的公務機構霸凌事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13208.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13225.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
真的是處理不當啦也因為這樣子就激怒了我們整個臺灣的社會連國外的人都看不下去所以在我們的2021年由考試院委員執行就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13226.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13252.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
前序部對於職場霸凌有無因應措施或者管理機制而在2023年也有考試院委員要求保訓會強化我們的職場霸凌的預防措施但是請問我們這邊的後續發展如何我們沒有看到任何作為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13253.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13273.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
跟國務院報告因為這段時間我們從院長提名人開始我們就有提到就是說就是把這一個相關的規定能夠當時隊友就是那個全系部保訓會強化職場霸凌的一反但是考試院就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13275.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13291.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
責無旁貸了一條寶貴的生命你也是當過媽媽了每天等不到孩子回來那種心情所以我們不能是說你推給我我推給你我們再討論再討論再討論下去就沒力沒命了 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13295.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13299.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
所以上一屆考試院全體也是積極認識早早就是強化說職場大臨要預防的落實但是到現在還是沒有落實的所以我們希望說我們這個也要有一個相關的就是相行的法規可規範也可以罰則這樣子的話有懲有罰這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13323.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13325.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13349.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13374.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
所以希望你當選後要真的有這個機會要好好珍惜重視人生和公共人民的生命還有我們新住民未來的考試院內科你如何去做才真正的達到我們想要的目標好 謝謝范委員 謝謝被提名者下一位請鍾嘉斌委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13386.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13416.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
主席在場的各位被提名人有請我們伊萬納威委員被提名人請被提名人答詢委員好您好就比照我們蘇委員巧惠他說我稱呼您伊萬納威這樣正確嗎現在委員的發音是中文 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13418.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13444.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那為了避免我的拙劣發音我還是稱您委員就好了畢竟您是現任的考試委員可以嗎?謝謝那麼剛剛我的標題是年金改革你我都是受益人原名特考廣開類科落實自治好首先要跟您請教目前最熱門的議題畢竟您擔任了四年的考試委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13445.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13472.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
而最近年金改革又被重提那目前藍白在野黨他們不斷的提出對於所得替代率過去的年金改革的定案是會一路下降到60%那麼對於年金改革從這6年來我們逐步在推動上路為國家為我們的年金水庫充實不少那想必您對年金改革也有一定的了解是嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13474.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13500.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
好 那先請教一下請問您何時進入公務部門服務的2005年OK 2005年那你知道年金改革有個關鍵的日期就是1995年民國84年嗎是它是什麼樣的意義那個時候應該是給你一個提示18%你知道是從何而來嗎大概知道那個18%18%是什麼年金改革當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13504.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13534.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
退休的優惠因為您在2005年才進入公部門服務所以您對於1995年之前您是不太了解的那我希望未來我們的考試委員在面對這個議題都能夠對於年金改革有所掌握剛好我的家人也有在1995年之前就進入公部門服務的教育人員那麼那時候就有188的優惠存款換言之在民國84年之前的公務年資是可以提取一筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13535.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13546.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
一式退休金存放在優存的帳號當中以這些優存的利息來抵充政府支付給他的年金這個您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13549.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13575.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
你瞭解那你認為過去政府用公務人員公教人員的一次退休金繼續存在政府臺灣銀行帳戶當中給予18%的優惠利息存款來充抵他的月退休金也就是年金你覺得這樣的做法合理嗎合宜嗎這個是不同時代的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13577.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13601.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
所以這個退休金年改會有一個階段性的改革是有它的原因嗎可能委員您大概沒有意料到在您再次被提名被審查的時候會問到這個議題那我相信如果您能順利通過審查未來四年仍然會面對這個議題建議您對這個議題可以再繼續深入的了解那底下就我所知提供您做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13602.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13631.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
其實18號的優存利息並不是公教人員去跟當時的政府爭取來的福利不過換個方式來講更可以說是當時財政拮据的政府為了避免一次性的支出退休公教人員的退休金他等於是以存款的形式支付給退休公務員退休的貸款利息如果你不是很了解這個拗口的話我就這麼說好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13632.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13661.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
如果當時在民國50年50年代60年代政府的財政不是很好的情況之下面對大批一次退休的公務員一次提領可能數十萬的退休金政府的財政負荷不了於是政府就跟退休公務人員說你這一次的退休金你不要領走你放在我台灣銀行帳戶我每個月給你18%的利息等於是政府跟退休的公務人員借他的退休金給政府先用付他利息這樣您瞭解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13663.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13679.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以那個時候其實這個18%當時的利率普遍民間都要9%以上所以給他加倍的利息緩和了政府在財政上調度的困難某個程度上是當時退休的公務員解決了政府財政調度問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13681.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13700.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
但是在接著後續從80年代開始90年代開始80年代政府給予軍公教人員公教人員的月薪已經跟民間的水準一般了到了90年代超過民間的平均所得月薪資所得已經是超過一萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13701.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13727.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
所以剛好在那個時候就發現這個18%的優存利息開始產生一個現象也是退休的人如果加上民謀84年的一個年資他可以提領18%的退休優存的利息他的所得替代率甚至超過當時還在職同職等的公務員就所得替代率超過百分之百您覺得這合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13729.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13747.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
不合理這是為什麼我們目前在進行改革那你知道目前我們的所得替代率一路降到現在是幾%嗎現在應該是您可以再回去做了解一下他是逐年條1.5那您可以去叫你們考試院的全序部 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13748.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13765.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
目前儘管一路要降到60%但是在60%以上其實目前這些在仍然有84年之前退休年資的公務員他所領的這些年金當中還是有相當的比例是18%的優存利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13767.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13794.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
所以當替代率下降的時候他少領的就是這18%的優存利息也是引起社會爭議最大最不公平的18%的優存利息所以如果我們降到了求責替代率60%等於是讓以後現在的退休公務員他以後就不用再去受到各界的質疑說他多領了這個沒有法源依據的18%的優存利息你同意嗎同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13795.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13815.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
好所以國家資源要永續所以呢因此呢下一頁我們就可以看到年金的水庫不只是在職公務員的所賴也是退休公務員公教人員的生活尊嚴所需所以在年金改革沒有誰是敵人我們都是受益人您同意嗎同意好那麼接下來呢我們就進入到今天我們要詢問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13816.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13836.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
因為接下來我們看到藍白一度卡考試院的人士所以考試院提出權宜措施那因此啟動了三項國考提前請辦請教委員那麼如果您順利通過新任考委就任之後考試院有沒有對於請辦的國考進行程序上的補正有沒有需要需要需要要做哪些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13839.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13854.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
一方面就是因為現在目前我們權宜之際可能在法制上的這個程序上是你們沒有院長沒有副院長是也沒有考試委員沒有考試委員或者之前考試委員現在還有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13856.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13862.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
賴總統提名考試委員我們重視的不只是專業性還考慮到族群的分佈所以這裡面提到說特別提名您就是要貼近族群需求的專業貢獻您認同賴總統這個提名的重點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13883.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13896.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
認同好那我再請教一下先請教一個稍微有點離題的您聽過全民國防教育法吧有那你認為全民國防教育的受教育的對象是誰誰要接受全民國防教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13897.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13922.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
全民很好為了讓全民對於國家的國防有共同的認知我們要由教育部所負責的全民國防教育法對全國的民眾不只學生推動全民國防教育那請問您瞭解一個原住民族教育法嗎瞭解那原住民族教育法的教育對象是誰誰要去受原住民族教育現在修法最新的修法是全民原教 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13922.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13950.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
很好你有掌握到我們看一下第43條其實原住民族教育法第43條各級教育主管機關推動教育政策應促進全國國民認識與尊重原住民族不是只有原住民的學生才要受到原住民族教育法的對象全民包括你我都是對不對是沒錯在台灣這個族群共榮的國家跟社會每一個族群都要去理解跟尊重他族群的文化您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13951.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13965.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
非常同意很好所以呢如果說這樣來說那麼你認為我們的文官是不是要對台灣各族群體的文化有所認識怎麼樣來參與還是只有參與原住民測考的文官需要了解原住民文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13966.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13981.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我認為所有的文官都應該要認識原住民文化全部的文官都要不是只有參加原住民特考的文官那請問考試院下一頁我們目前有哪些文官需要認識原住民文化又做了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13982.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14004.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
目前我們是主要是在訓練方面保訓會在相關的這個訓練課堂就是說你能舉一兩個例子告訴我您在考委任內要求我們保訓會他在課程上面有讓每一位文官都接觸到原住民的文化瞭解嗎任何一個課程有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14005.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14023.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
現在這個第一個我們先從就是我們文官學院跟這個監察院我們有一個人權方面的包括原住民有哪一個課程是您要求提出增加進去的這些課程我們叫族群和諧與文化多元發展的專題 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14025.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14045.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個專題是您要求列入的是的很好好 我要的就是您身為一個總統所提名能夠代表原住民的考試委員您應該要致力於這方面的努力好不好是好 那麼再下來我們看文官體系除了要培養對不同族群文化的敏感度之外原住民目前在公務體系所遇到的挑戰是什麼開放題 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14049.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14074.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
這個是因為原住民現在的挑戰是蠻多的那接下來可能就是說在服務的過程裡面怎麼樣跟主流社會可以有一個比較好的互動感覺上您的答案還是有點原則性我來自於屏東屏東是不是有很多原住民朋友是的我從那邊聽到幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14076.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14103.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
過去原住民服工職的管道﹐包括有警察﹐有醫師﹐有老師﹐有教師那時候早期有原住民警察專班﹐也有3D醫師﹐醫學專修科那麼老師的部分有原住民專班我所屬那時候的屏東師專﹐更正臺東師專﹐就原住民專班但是後來停辦改制後﹐警察的部分改為百分之二的增額錄取保障百分之二的增額錄取 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14104.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14133.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
依這個部分改成以公費一取代至於老師的原住民專班就停辦之後他由四培大學保留原住民學生名額以一定比例的原住民教師原鄉優先聘用主任教師還有我們的所謂的保送生跟公費生是不是這樣是那你認為這樣的一個改變之後有辦法持續讓我們原住民的族人同胞得到他們自己同胞的包括醫療、教育以及治安各方面的服務嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14134.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14135.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我覺得還是很有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14136.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14164.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
很有限那您覺得要做哪一些努力您思考一下我舉一個日本的例子給你看在台灣我們有高普考跟特考分發如果是特考的話分發單位服務3到6年當事人可以申請請調到其他單位但是日本的話它有分成國家公務員跟地方公務員考上國家公務員的到國家機關任職考上地方公務員的到地方機關任職之間不得流用轉任它是雙軌制度那麼在台灣的單軌制度之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14166.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14194.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
在遇到特考的時候會發生什麼問題單軌的話它就是在分發的時候就是比較有限就是說被局限好 那我就舉個例子現在是不是有警察特考警察特考是只有原住民能考嗎還是大家都可以考警察特考大家都可以考警察特考但是為什麼要特考因為考上了你只能擔任警察是不是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14195 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14218.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
是但是公務員不一樣喔公務員的高普考跟地方特考還有原住民特考以地方特考跟原住民特考都一樣原住民特考必須具有一定資格身份的人才能投考是不是是考上之後他3到6年可依規定轉換到其他直系任職或其他地區服務是不是是沒錯是他有他的流通性那我請教一下那麼原住民他要 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14219.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14232.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
如果是原住民特考底下有警察類科那你認為這個原住民考上了原住民特考當中的警察類科他以後可不可以不擔任警察6年之後轉任其他的公職 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14235.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14249.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
這個可能性這可能還是要跟用人機關因為它是警察人員任用條例的一個法制如果將來如果是放到原名特考我覺得不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14250.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14251.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
假如是放在我們原名特考的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14278.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14287.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
他可能就不是警察囉如果增加警察類科的話交流警察類科對 如果原住民特考增加警察類科 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14287.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14310.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
這部分我們也會跟其實在比較早一點前一段時間我們有跟警政署有稍微討論過但是看起來是兩種狀況看我們要達到的目的是什麼以您身為原住民的立場你覺得哪一種方式、制度比較符合原住民族的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14312.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14339.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我在猜應該是放在原名特考裡面你用猜那我可以跟您分享一下公文人員考試法第6條第2項原住民組織就業權益他可以在12345的特種考試當中只要符合資格只要6年他在6年在他申請考試辦理的機關當中或所屬的機關或範圍當中去服務就可以了換言之之後他有可能轉任警察以外的公職職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14340.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14366.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
但是也可能被限制在只能在原住民地區的機關服務是不是這樣的可能性是好那我們接下來看一下其實原住民在我們政府的體系當中因為他的語言文化特殊所以過去我們政府除了一般文官在涉及到原住民相關事務需要能夠對應到原住民同胞的需求之外在一些切身的服務上比如說治安的維護事項上 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14367.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14389.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
譬如說醫療保健的服務事項上譬如說在教育文化的提供上特別是由人來提供的服務我們特別需要警察、教師跟醫師您同意嗎同意但是我們希望有還有其他人還有其他的對所以目前我們醫師是專技高考 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14390.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14418.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我們的教師是教師法去考教師證只有警察是屬於公職考試對不對對所以你身為原住民的考試委員如果基於當時陳建東所提到的國中之國原住民自治的概念是不是原住民特考的考科類科應該擴充更多更廣讓更多的原住民能夠透過原住民特考來政府機關服務原住民同胞你支持這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14419.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14443.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
方法嗎這個方向應該是是應該要往這個方向好但是時不合宇我給您看一個資料如果說我們原住民特考不包括一般的警察、內科我們看到了目前新聞每年都可以看到超過100人申請退休警專或警特生因為訓練長達一到兩年無法成立的缺口警政署是缺多少缺多但是補得少 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14444.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14460.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
偏鄉警察缺人偏偏原鄉更需要現在遇到了我們原住民偏鄉原鄉的警察退休潮警力單薄全國一共有400億個所聯合服勤對我們原鄉地區的治安服務是一個很大的警訊您覺得要怎麼樣來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14463.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14490.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這個應該要跟好好跟警政署就相關的人力做一個好我再給您看一個數字從2014年到2023年我們看到了全體的警察從7萬5千人到8萬6千人原住民的警察全國警察的人數在提高但是原住民警察是在下降占比呢幾乎降到了2%點多差不多快跟他的人口比例差不多接近了您怎麼去面對這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14492.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14517.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
事實上在上一任的時候我也看到這個數字特別跟全序部要了一個統計數字我有請相關的這個也能夠把這個數據能夠跟警政署提供然後我們可以一起來把這個問題推進加快您覺得如果納入原住民特考原住民特考加靠警察考科有辦法解決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14520.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14548.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我再給你一個提示我們努力你同意但是原住民特考的報考人數持續下降啊從過去每年有超過將近五千八百人到現在今年大概只有一千三百人為什麼參加原住民特考的原住民考生越來越少你再增加考科有用嗎什麼原因你知道嗎為什麼原住民的特考考生越來越少因為那個當然很多原因啦一個就是說一個原因就是今年開始怎麼樣要透過主語認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14550.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14576.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
呃跟各位呃跟我原報告因為我這個這裡是不是原住民特考的應考規則是不是有這樣一個規定113年上路是沒有錯可是呃我我我個人看法是沒有一不是他唯一的原因不是他唯一的原因但是一個原因好我問你現在通過原住民足以認證的學的人多數的年齡分布在哪裡給你看多數的是在學的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14577.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14604.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
所以換言之現在已經到了就業年齡的很多人他並沒有具備主語認證可是反過來說過了幾年等到這些有主語認證的學生長大成人可以就業了他來投考原住民特考的人數就有會增加了是不是所以你要提早做準備底下三個結論讓您參考第一您是否應該跟行政院共同研究在原住民特考加班一班行政警察的考科同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14606.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14608.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
是否通盤考慮原住民特考的缺額? |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14634.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14635.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
下一位我們請盧憲宜委員詢問有請委員請被提名的人伊萬納威委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14663.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14691.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我們第一次見面是也沒有見過你我先問你廣泛的我們臺灣的原住民族的你我他的你的授格怎麼說你授格對好第一關過關我想請問你的博士論文能不能用你的賽德克的語來說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14694.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14707.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
Iwan NawiIwan NawiIwan NawiIwan NawiIwan NawiIwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14723.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14750.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
泰魯格也就是賽德克同一個語系的一個族群的發音模式跟我們盧凱排灣的拼音模式竟然不一樣我常常到一個教會我拼不出來這個教會的名稱我發現的問題是它的子音單獨發音那我們在盧凱排灣的時候是子音要搭配母音才可以發這個音所以我在看你的書有個叫做賽德克故事我來念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14751.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14757.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
Iwan NawiIwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14772.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14789.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
跟委員介紹一下我們賽的客語就是說子嬰後面一定是母嬰所以並不是沒有母嬰只是說把那個母嬰就是把它省略掉事實上看到子嬰的時候它後面是母嬰的ㄛ的嬰 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14790.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14811.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
所以他因為沒有我們沒有學過就不知道所以因為我看到單獨的只連續五個的話我就不知道怎麼發音那這樣我就適宜了不過我為什麼會提這個就一個我們16個族群來說如果要學習語言的話他一定是從文字開始嘛那如果一個基本上我是學過羅馬拼音的人我看到了你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14812.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14828.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
主語描述我沒有辦法一下子來發音出來可是如果有一天你到屏東去看我們的主語呈現如果你學過英文你大概很簡單的就會就可以發出來那如果是你學習羅馬拼的話就更容易了 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14828.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14852.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我的建議是說有沒有可能16個族群的拼音模式當然我們說啦啦的或是一些比較特殊的喉聲音或是捲舌音如果不是用我們一般的符號可以標記不過如果說就一般我們剛才你說的冥冥子音跟母音母音有存在可是你卻省略了可是就外族人在看的時候我覺得在學習上面就會有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14853.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14865.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
是在學習的一開始是一定要說明是好謝謝然後我們就你的現在的一個工作來說請你簡略的告訴我們這四年你最滿意的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14866.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14891.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我想應該是去建立那個原住民組考試工作小組的那個平台也就是說去針對我們原住民考試的一些要精進的工作邀請我們考試院的三個部會然後教育部、園民會、我們行政院人總一起來共同研商解決一些原住民現在的一些困境那剛剛在 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14892.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14914.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
前面有委員我有報告過那就是說除了我們在今年開始我們把原住民考試的各類科都減科了就是說過去要六科我們就變五科以前五科要變四科這樣以此類推當然他是根據那個高普考試的科目一起去做減科的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14915.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14917.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14939.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14945.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
文化敏感度問題的一個考題還爆出一個送分的一個這樣一個爭議你覺得以後要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14946.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14970.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
跟委員報告這件事情是我個人所經歷的當時就是一考完試我們就有社工人就是說社工的教授臺大的一個社工教授就跟我聯絡他說原住民應考人就反映到這個問題那我很快的去跟我們專技師因為這個考試社工師的考試是我們專技專技師在負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14973.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14992.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以瞭解那個狀況以後我就發現這個題目是比較早期的題目就是說1990年代那段時間這個題目你沒有先看過也不會先讓你過目因為題目不是考試委員可以看那個是我們點視會議我們都有命題委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14995.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15014.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
有越捐委員我還是希望能夠與時俱進因為現在這個我們會在展示會議上多多在跟命題委員做一個提醒因為目前居住在都會區的原住民越來越多所以社工是常常會面臨到比較我們所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15014.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15016.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
Iwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15034.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15049.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
以一個例子好了現在我們很多新興的部落比如說里納里有三個鄉的還有長治大愛也是跨三個鄉的一個大部落可是這樣的新興的部落卻沒有分住所 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15050.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15073.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
那也就是說在設置方面或者是人員金融方面我們原住民特考那真的是要多釋放一些名額我們現在是有法警這樣一個名額可是沒有所謂的行政警察這樣一個類科我希望這一兩年可以朝這個方向來前進可以嗎好你有去過長治百合嗎長治還沒有還沒到那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15074.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15102.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
希望你能夠來看一下因為他目前聽說是目前是聚落最多人口最多的原住民社區那你看如果是來自不同的地方又那麼範圍那麼廣他又鄰近我們高速公路又是鄰近我們漢人的族群我相信那邊很需要警察來不是說保護至少去巡邏或是說去如果有一個在地的事情發生的話能夠很快在5分鐘之內有人可以來來看發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15110.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15124.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那我還有特別關心的就是說我們所得替代率的部分之前軍人的退休替代率很像有調整到90%那警察的部分目前有沒有朝這個方向來前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15126.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15147.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
目前年改大概先就目前的狀況再持續推展那將來會怎麼樣我覺得可能也是要看我們整個退伏基金的整個狀況你有支持我們退休警察跟軍人的待遇是一樣的調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15149.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15149.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
委員會主席委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15170.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15199.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我大概知道你的態度了那第二個就是說我們現在警察在考試的時候我們常常最常接到的就是身高的限制那身高的限制我是覺得我們上一個會期有提到很多國家歐美國家已經沒有身高限制只有BMI限制甚至比利時呢還是只有象徵性的提了一個身高限制是125公分也就是說這個限制是沒有限制的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15200.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15224.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
所以我們在以後的或者說能不能盡早來規劃這個身高的限制因為我們常常都提到收到的一些陳情就是說差了0.3公分0.5公分其實沒有差很多可是這個身高的限制真的是沒有意義能不能朝這個方向來前進我們會跟內政部來好好研議是不是取消或者是怎麼樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15230.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15237.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
請問你一下,你有沒有去過烏來區?去過你知道烏來區衛生所的B&N裏面有幾個醫生嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15240.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15264.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
一般原鄉的衛生所大概就一個主任大概一個大部分都是兩個醫師可是物來區有三個醫師我這次去澳洲參加我們臺灣原住民醫學會跟那邊當地辦的一個所謂的太平洋原住民醫師的一個研討會我聽到了一個印第安的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15266.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15267.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
特殊生活圈報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15286.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15304.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
可是他們已經做到加拿大已經做到3000多個人是有多少個醫師來照顧呢是有67位醫師他們怎麼來解決這個問題就是說他們朝著朝這個方向他不是他不是以數量來做服務的一個考量而是做用品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15305.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15305.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15322.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15340.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
如果多到十個二十個我覺得都無所謂都可以為什麼呢一個部落如果需要每個醫師的話你看我們有多少個部落那更何況是護理人員我們是只是講醫師的部分所以我是覺得以後在做衛生所整體規劃的時候這個編制上面應該要跟平地不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15341.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15361.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我看到人家是這麼努力然後看到他們這樣一個規劃他認為比如說啦我在我在偏遠地區生活我需要副廠科醫師我需要小兒科醫師我要復健科醫師這樣一個邏輯嘛那我們現在是包山包海一個衛生所一個醫生然後一個主任然後兩個都是醫師可是可能他的科別是相同性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15362.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15382.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
可是我們看到加拿大這個例子它可以在一個區裡面3000多個人而已可以有60多名醫師我是覺得我們如果朝這個方向前進的話我們才可以真正縮短平均於命因為有那麼多的醫護人員在照顧這整個部落的話是不是對整個部落的健康就會有很大的幫忙這是我這次去澳洲的看見 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15384.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15405.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
將來我們有機會可以跟衛福部來研商編制上的人力上的一個充實所以我們就會延伸到剛才鄧家畢提到所謂有公費一事的問題目前老師的問題比較少人會提到有缺額的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15408.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15421.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
教育部這邊有比較通盤的一個考量那我比較發現的就是說很多我們養成計畫的所謂現在剛才所說的公費生其實他就是養成計畫的醫師、醫護人員其實有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15423.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15445.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
許多我們的學弟妹因為他們沒有考到我們的國家通過我們的國家考試而變成流浪醫師那我們現在看到波波醫師這樣那個爭議的時候會覺得說我們這群沒有通過國家考試這群畢業生呢就會覺得相當的薄弱因為波波醫師的爭議他最主要來自什麼呢來自他我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15446.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15473.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
衛福部有一個24億的偏鄉計畫他當然衛福部的解釋說他當然不是只有訓練這個部分還包括設備不過他很明顯就在可以說是護航我們在國外畢業的一些醫學生或是牙醫生然後能夠進入到這個偏鄉計畫來受訓那我們明明就有養成計畫的畢業生可是沒有人去想到他們如果去照顧他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15474.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15490.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
幫助他們通過國家考試他們接受了6年、7年的醫學教育然後後來就在家裡或是在哪裡就是準備考試或者是做替代性的工作或者是相關性的工作可是這一群人是如果按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15491.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15513.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
推估的話應該有上百人所以這樣的一個數據我覺得如果我們考試院這邊如果可以想辦法看他們來輔助他們通過國家考試的話這群人還可以回到我們原鄉服務是不是剛才我所說的那個一個鄉很多的醫護人員來照顧就會有獲得一個學習的一些進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15514.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15517.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
教育部教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15534.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15560.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
我的了解是他們在國外採任的這個資格他們會非常嚴謹他們的把關是蠻嚴格的副部長也是有跟我說保證說一定是把關可是我要講的是我們原住民我們養成計畫這群畢業生應該有人替他們想辦法而不是讓他們畢業了以後完全沒有人幫忙是我想說讓委員知道說以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15561.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15589.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
你在考試院可以朝這個方向來努力剛才有提到比如說原住民特考可以有行政警察類科那是不是我們的原住民特考也可以有公費醫師這樣的一個類別讓他們有不同國家考試的一個選擇當然不是因為這個考試會比較簡單而是說這個考試可能針對如果通過的一些我們的醫師他就可以說他是哪一組的就到哪一組服務或是哪一區的就到哪一區服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15590.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15619.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
我們就可以比較去減少很多我明明不是這一組比如說我很多人他不是這一組跑到那個組的話其實就很像到國外一樣他也完全聽不懂也不了解當地的文化那如果說就剛才的這些所謂我們盤點這些沒有取得國家考試的這些醫生或是醫護人員、販子那我們就可以多少可以解決我們偏鄉的這些照護的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15621.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15643.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
不過因為醫事人員其實是為國家人民的健康權在影響我們的健康安全等等就是說衛福部應該是會比較嚴謹的在看待這樣的一個事情所以這個部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15644.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15667.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
將來如果在考試端這邊﹖看看我們怎麼樣可以協助﹖將來有機會的話﹖也會把這樣的問題也帶去研議我是希望拋出這個問題﹖讓考試院至少去策劃一下﹖或者去理解他們的需求﹖或者是去規劃一下我們未來偏鄉照顧的問題﹖可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15669.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15674.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
最後剩下三分鐘的時間我想問你對我們目前紛紛擾擾的族群委員的態度族群委員目前立法院正在炒的這些問題比如說無極職或是什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15693.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15722.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
第一個我尊重貴院大院是我們立法最高機關所以你們的修法應該就是我們會尊重對我的意思是說像你的目前是賽德克組嗎對那你目前的賽德克的族群委員你可以做一個簡單的介紹嗎他是誰我記得是潘潔然後他的背景是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15722.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15746.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
潘杰是長期在部落裡面做很多文化或者是產業方面工作的一個年輕人那我的理解是這樣因為這個問題可能很多人都有不同的想法可是我的想法就是說應該是回歸到所謂的制度面能不能就是在遴選或者是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15747.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15768.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
主委、原民會在頒布的時候是不是一個很正統的一個所謂的領選的一個制度跟我原報告我的了解在這方面其實是有制度的如果今天我們遇到一些需要調整的地方我們就調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15771.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15792.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
這個族群委員他非常重要的工作可以是協助就是園民會因為園民會他還是行政機關但是如果我們透過我們不同的族群委員可以是幫助我們了解原住民在比較地方或原鄉的一些需求我覺得他的功能還是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15793.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15807.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
當然我不是說否決他的功能我是很尊重這個職位而且我認為這個職位非常的重要他甚至我已經把他形容成為一個族群的一個外交官如果今天是少族的族群委員來到屏東的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15807.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15825.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
他可能就是可以好好介紹他這個族群讓我們知道說少主是什麼樣的一個族群以這樣的一個角色那所以我覺得這個角色非常的重要所以現在大家在吵的原因就是說他是不是已經不具有這方面的一個所謂的背景所以大家才會質疑這樣的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15827.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15850.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
所以我是建議啦而且是當然或者跟著黨團來修法的話我們還是希望能夠朝制度這個方向來前進把這個聆選一個制度用好才不會產生這些紛擾的一些議題出來從制度面應該是最好的那你跟我的看法一樣那我們就一起努力特別是我們養成計畫的公費生謝謝你謝謝委員謝謝盧委員謝謝貝提米人 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15856.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15878.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
下一位我們請伍麗華委員詢問謝謝主席有請被提名人請被提名人伊萬納威 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15889.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15915.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
委員好伊萬委員您好我這樣稱呼您正確嗎伊萬正確對那剛才呢我在辦公室有聽到麥玉珍委員稱呼您納威委員他這樣稱呼正確嗎那個是我爸爸的名字所以在族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15916.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15933.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
的一個文化差異上如果我們沒有辦法去做一個很及時的機會教育的話其實蠻可惜的所以我希望說您下次如果遇到有人沒有辦法正確的稱呼您 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15934.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15951.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
您可以用您的微笑來用這個機會來介紹我們賽特克族的命名文化可以嗎可以 謝謝謝謝那您做過四年的考試委員對吧對有沒有接到過族人的陳情有有齁我跟您說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15956.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15980.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
我常常也接到很多很多的陳情但是有的陳情有點超乎我立法委員的一個權責我舉個例子應該跟您有關係像我們有安息日會安息日會呢您應該知道他們會在禮拜六安息敬拜一直到等送完夕陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15981.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16004.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
那對他們來講其實這是很重要的就是要謹守安息日所以呢他們幾十年來有一個困擾他們問委員你能不能夠幫忙他們說為什麼國家的考試各種的考試包括從過去的聯考等等都要放在禮拜六 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16005.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16020.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
他們說對我們的很多教友而言真的是沒有辦法參與那我唯一能夠幫助他們的是什麼呢就是我有跟原民會說可不可以把我們的足語認證考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16022.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16040.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
同意放在他們的三育聖經學校等他們送完夕陽再讓他們開始考很感謝園民會從善如流體恤我們族人的民意他真的做了但是我現在就想問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16041.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16068.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
就是面對這樣的一個陳情面對國家的考試制度我不曉得說我想聽聽看您的意見您會怎麼樣協助他們這種安息日教會的沒有辦法在禮拜六去做任何事情的你怎麼幫助他們因為他們真的很多人因為謹守這個信仰他們還真的就不會去參與任何的國家考試怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16071 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16095.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
跟委員報告國家考試總共有20一年要考個就是總共有20場那一般我們這個舉行考試的時候為什麼會選擇6日這個問題我曾經好像也是跟委員這邊瞭解到說因為為什麼都是禮拜六或禮拜天後來才知道就是因為我們都要借考場 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16097.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16114.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
在學校考場只有六日最多禮拜一就是再隔一天大型的考試大概就是三天四天所以我們借考場這件事情只能用在 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16116.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16117.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16131.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16157.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
原本可以有很多的座位但是呢你只要遇到還在學期當中的時候比如說護理師考試我們增加了第三次可是剛好那個時間學生還在上課所以就沒有辦法所以其實是跟我們的空間可以借用的空間有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16158.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16185.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
那謝謝委員謝謝您有曾經關注也思考過這個問題我拋出這個議題就是想要請您在未來如果您繼續擔任我們的考試委員我希望您能夠救一些看起來似乎不可能但是我們還是要基於解決我們人民的問題我們要想方設法去找出目前的問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16186.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16211.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
那我們怎麼樣去解決目前我們所遇到的問題那可以用什麼樣的方式來去我相信如果你能夠做出這一些的重大突破那您真的是在我們的歷史定位上會有您的名字我希望你用這樣的心情來看待所有我們所面對的困難好嗎那我也在想剛才有幾位委員我跟您說 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16213.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16227.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
其實我們原鄉現在的派出所很不容易看到原住民級的警察這個跟十幾、二十幾年、三十幾年前是很不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16228.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16244.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
那怎麼辦呢我作為立法委員我也要努力啊所以呢我從一進來我就一直要求我們的警專警大要把原住民這種錄取的名額希望比例要加高今年已經增加到3.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16246.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16275.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那麼我覺得不夠為什麼因為警政署跟我溝通的時候這樣很多了我說不行因為透過這種考試途徑進去的他不見得會願意回到原鄉他回到原鄉他也不見得是在部落長大的孩子他不見得懂語言會文化他也不見得習慣所以我說不夠我們要另外再增加原住民行政警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16276.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16303.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
那經過我幾年我也很高興最後警政署也同意了但是他告訴我說委員我們要在我們的警察特考行政警察裡面加一個原住民行政警察這個問題去問了考試院呢他們也說可以但是他們建議要在原民特考裡面放一個原住民行政警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16304.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16321.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
現在我想請教我們的考試委員你怎麼看待這個問題如果我們的目標是要放在我們的原住民警察回到自己原鄉服務的話放在原民特考試有他的可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16323.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16336.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我就要您這句話但是我的看見也是這樣我也跟警政署溝通因為如果你放在原住民的特考他就會回到原鄉服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16338.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16361.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
如果你放在自己的警察特考他不見得需要回到原鄉服務因為我們需要的是為原鄉留才留什麼才呢具有文化敏感度的人才他才能夠真正的服務那邊的人可是警政署說依照我們的人事警察任用條例他竟然說 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16363.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16370.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
我們除了自己的警察特考我們可以來分發他說那就是高普考了 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16372.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16398.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
但是他不承認原民特考說因為除非修法沒有在他們的人事警察任用條例裡面那我在這個地方我不細談這個問題我只是要把這個問題帶給您因為我也覺得這件事情您應該要使上力我們一同來努力這樣可以嗎可以好那我再請教您喔因為你有做過原民會的副主委嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16400.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16414.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
您知不知道剛才前面的委員也問過了您知不知道最近我們的原住民的有五位委員其中有三位是自己的一個主題版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16415.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16439.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
他們呢要來修原民會的組織法而且呢他修的是去第三條是干預我們原本的主委的人事任命權希望能夠什麼行政院長的人事任命權希望山原輪流輪流當然後原本還說要給原住民的鄉長議員來同意然後再任命 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16440.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16467.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那又來呢第四條說要把過去好不容易爭取到的族群委員我們尊重他的主體性而且賦予他十二職等希望他的地位能夠跟副主委一樣因為我們的主委是單一族群的委員但是他的薪水其實沒有跟副主委一樣高因為他不是主管職好現在要把他們變成無給職讓他泡沫化虛無化沒有話語權 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16469.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16494.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我不曉得您做過副主委您對於這件事情你有什麼看法特別是當理由是我們要把這省區、山區的兩千多萬我們要拿來增加聘用園民會的公務人員我光是問您第一個問題那個預算科目拿掉可以挪作去聘公務人員嗎行官不行就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16499.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16504.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
不行嘛那公務人員可以這樣子隨隨便便我們就可以拼進來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16509.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16530.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
我聽到這樣就好了所以我想要講的是其實我們有很多的問題我覺得在考試委員這個位置上我們也可以來做發聲因為我們尊重你們是專業的委員好不好那其實我剛剛前面只是就您過往的經歷跟您做一些意見的但是我還是要回歸正題 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16531.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16554.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
今天我們是針對我們的考試委員來這個地方溝通我最重要、最在意的只有兩個面向第一我們原住民的人才要怎麼樣適當的方式被考選、被把著另外一個面向我在意的是國家整體的公務人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16555.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16578.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我們怎麼樣讓每一個公務員．面對臺灣這個多元族群的國家．能夠有文化敏感度這個是我很在意的我相信也應該是您的任務所以我在這邊我就要來問剛才有幾個委員都已經說了 那我就不要特別原住民的公務人員的占比 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16580.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16607.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
112年最新的資料雖然您提供的資料是111年的現在是1.9%但是我們原住民的人口占全國總人口的比例現在最新的資料是2.5%1.9%到2.5%其實是一個很大的一個落差所以我想要問您最主要的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16609.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16631.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
這個當然跟我們現在那個我們現在原住民考試是依據我們工作權保障法所以在那個任用上他分發的地區主要是在原鄉所以這個部分可能也是影響我們現在新世代的原住民年輕人的一種選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16633.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16661.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
因為我們現在有60%左右的族人都已經在都會區所以他可能在考慮我要不要報考這個原民公務人員要不要報考原民這個公務特考這件事情他可能會有些考慮其實你也提到了那我就順便就講下去其實在我們一般行政體系原住民公務人員的人數比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16662.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16682.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
我覺得這個也不用問啦一定是很少對不對您是說我們原住民級的公務人員在我們的一般的行政體系佔的比例人數應該很少對不對更低嘛那您可以掌握得到嗎大概比例是多少現在原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16683.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16696.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
在一般公務體系在公務體系大概只有1.8%應該那個是我們在全國公務體系但是他們大部分都落在原住民行政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16697.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16719.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
對那落在一般的行政機關那個只有更低對 更低但是你有辦法掌握數據嗎現在大概你知道你就講不到一千人不到一千人對所以你可以換算那個比例多少嗎如果按照我們現在目前6723元素民工人員那委員我就繼續問下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16725.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16744.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
多少比例是透過原特這些原住民級的公務員多少是原特多少比例是高考、普考、其他的專業特考我會問這個的原因是考試院你前面四年只有你一位原住民的考試委員是你有在做這個分析嗎你有在做這個資料庫嗎有 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16746.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16764.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
有資料庫我其實多麼希望你可以在今天的報告呈現出來但是我沒有看到其實我要談這個問題是我希望你要掌握因為原住民公務員的升遷狀況我的意思是說我舉個例子像軍人我其實經常質詢我其實心裡很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16768.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16790.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我們就像那個金字塔在那個最低階的比例好高啊越往上沒有沒有還好它有天花板像軍人可能到上校就上不去了警察也是到兩線一它就上不去了越基層的它越多為什麼因為沒有人把著啊沒有背景啊所以這個對我們考試院來講我們講考還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16802.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16825.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
訓、權、升遷所以這個權很重要我們很關心我們原住民級的這些公務人員在原鄉的行政機關在原住民事務的主管機關在我們一般的縣市地方一般中央的一般行政直系他們有沒有升遷的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16827.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16844.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這個對於賴總統講的他從台南市長就一直講要推動族群主流化到了行政院長講要推動族群主流化他現在成為一個總統要推動族群主流化但是我們很不容易看到成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16845.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16860.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
很不容易所以考試院：考試委員：你有很重要的責任這一些數據的掌握以及怎麼樣為他們去做好這些考全訓保 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16862.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16879.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
這個都是您的責任您知道嗎所以我希望我們考試委員我知道的是我看到一筆108年有一個近年來全國原住民族公務人力數據分析這個是最後一筆資料在2019年有出版 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16881.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16909.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
委員我希望你繼續你有看裡面的資料嗎有這個是每年都會有一個統計我希望這些工作都是你應該要努力的方向我覺得歷史會給你定位你要做的事情很多因為只有你一位所有原住民的事就是你的事但是你不要一肩扛你要發揮你的族群主流化你的影響力讓整個考試院的夥伴一起來為原住民服務可以嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16910.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16910.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16926.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16945.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
考選方面我們其實在委員也知道我們在原住民考試各類科裡面尤其是原住民行政都會有原住民族政策原住民族歷史文化或者是等等這樣的一個科目但是我認為在文化敏感度的訓練跟族群主流化這種思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16946.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16975.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
也要放在訓練裡面所以在國家文觀裡頭我就要求他剛剛前面有幾位委員提到多元文化就是族群和諧、多元文化發展那一堂課是我要求的所以我看到他在120小時的訓練裡面至少有10個小時是在上相關的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16976.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17000.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
我們當然還有很多努力的空間那委員因為也只剩一分多了我在這邊就不繼續再問但是我就是趁這個剩下的一分多我希望你可以簡單的、簡短的來回答因為你作為考試院唯一的考試委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17002.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17022.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
你之前有四年的機會去做這個工作做這個努力現在如果有機會又給你四年的機會四年的努力我希望你能夠很清楚的告訴大家你會為我們整個原住民的人才的跋涉 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17024.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17044.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
還有我們人才的選用還有他的制度的保障以及所有包括公務人員包括非原住民公務人員的一個訓練他的文化敏感度然後對整個國家政策的族群主流化怎麼樣從遍佈到每一個威脅管 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17046.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17055.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
這個是你很重要的方向那對我來講這也是我一直要努力的方向我希望你很簡短的來回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17056.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17082.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
是委員原住民公務人員也是我們整體全國公務人員的一份子所以包括保障包括這個全序訓練應該都是一樣的但是就像委員講的過去可能考試院比較沒有多元文化的一個思維所以我們在裡面的參與其實可以增加對他們的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17083.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17096.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
那最後5秒鐘再給你一個任務也是我的任務不要忘記原住民自治是不妖原住民自治人才的培育也要...謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝被提名人下一位請鄭天才委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17125.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17153.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
副院長有請伊萬貝提名人請貝提名人答詢委員好我好大家好這個當了四年了四年的考試委員這個剛有特別提到好幾位委員這個都提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17154.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17177.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
有關原住民行政特考有足以的考試你認為目前足以認證的資格有沒有造成原住民行政特考考生的資格條件的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17180.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17206.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
從這個數據就是說從開始實施主委認證作為這個應考人條件以來我確實有發現有一些就是人數有下降但是我有注意到有一些我們有去勾結到勾結到就是說這個原本可能有兩三千人的報考人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17208.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17228.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
後來為什麼剩下一千多那我有去勾結到這一個部分有留到蒂特有留到高普考所以我認為可能有部分原因跟主語認證有關不管這個未來未來我先說 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17233.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17256.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
這個為了因應相關的法律的規定所以原住民主行政特考必須要通過主委的認證一開始考選部所提出來的條文一開始他們的草案是要終極的終極的認證我經過我的協調我召開協調會 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17263.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17292.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
我告訴他們要一步一步來因為為什麼我主要的理由他們就接受了為什麼呢在我們的學生考試的主義考試啊考高中考高中高職他是要初級認證考大端驗校以上是要終極認證通過對不對所以我用這個理由因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17294.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17310.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
考顏名特考有五等對不對他是高中畢業就可以考了考這個四等也是一樣高中畢業就可以考所以你直接用規定終極考終極認證通過那他們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17314.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17334.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
高中畢業我們當初在升學的考試的時候他就還沒有得到這個部分所以後來考選部同意先從初級初級通過那現在113年嗎改為中級了已經開始了嗎開始了所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17342.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17366.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
這個不管你有沒有當考試委員我們都要一起去探討是不是造成影響當然今年已經考完了嘛所以如果你能繼續當考試委員更要去了解了解很多管道當然已經報名的你再問他沒有用啊你要問誰呢?你剛才有講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17368.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17396.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
你剛才有講說他去轉考其他的比如說高考、補考或是其他的特考對不對可以去問他們對不對可以請考選部去問他們到底是什麼為什麼你不考嚴明特考一樣的一般行政或是一樣的這個什麼列科你為什麼要去考那個還是說他的理由是不想回到原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17398.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17422.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
也有可能啊這個是一個還是說因為是足矣所以這個部分都是必須要去隨時的去了解是不是這樣是我們看這個這幾年110年我們整個原住民行政特考不足而入企的 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17424.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17452.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
比例人數真的是相當高110人是57名而最主要的有包含財稅行政、經建行政、農業技術、土木工程這是三等的部分然後在四等的部分也是一樣財稅行政、農業技術、土木工程都不足而相當多的尤其是土木工程而這個土木工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17453.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17482.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
又是我們原鄉最需要的這些人才無論是縣市政府或者是鄉鎮公所還包含了我一直要求他們要禁用原住民公務人員就是公路總局相關的工程處相關的工程處都是在原住民地區結果他們好不容易提供了這個職缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17484.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17512.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
但是又一直不足爾所以這個非常非常的可惜我們看111年也是一樣不足爾入企55名這個相關的列科也差不多都是那個列科另外112年很特殊77名112年竟然一般行政還有不足爾入企7個人所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17513.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17538.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
在這個過去的你在服務的期間當考試委員這個部分確實是應該要要去特別的去了解你看我們112年的四等也是一樣也是一樣土木工程、農業技術這些還有這個經建行政這樣的一個類科我們看113年 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17539.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17564.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
一樣很高79名不足而入籍基本上都還在財稅行政、經濟行政、農業技術、土木工程這個是在三等的部分我們看這個四等的部分也是一樣農業技術、土木工程、經濟行政、財稅行政像這樣的一個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17566.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17591.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
應該我們原住民不管是立法委員、考試委員或是園民會顯然我們的合作不足為了這樣的議題大家應該拿來討論有時候考試委員沒有辦法跟這個相關的部會質詢就應該我們要互相交換意見相互討論怎麼樣去協調相關的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17596.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17612.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
去解決這個問題不只是什麼幾個例子例如說教育部對不對我們這麼多的地方切這些人怎麼樣去開這些班對不對開這些班 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17616.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17625.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
在大學、院校增加這些班我是先舉這個方向你有什麼還是已經在進行中的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17626.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17653.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
是 跟委員報告就是我在我的今天口頭報告裡面特別提到在2021開始我就建立這個平台那我自己本身也自己拜訪為了這些現象跟教育部跟園民會我都親自去拜會過那因為專班的成立這件事因為高教其實它是一個自主的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17655.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17679.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
他們也沒有辦法強迫學校一定要辦什麼所以我們就拜託原民會就是就這個不足耳的這些類科是不是建議給教育部由教育部來看看有哪一些學校可以來辦相關的一些專班因為他們教育部這邊還是需要原民會的意見這個伊萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17683.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17711.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
專班的可行性可能比較緩慢一點不是緩慢就教育部或是各大專院校而言是比較困難因為你要專班的話就要多少人進來這是一個問題我們要共同努力的我也在要求這個教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17715.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17738.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
因為因應我們的﹐原住民跟非原住民﹐大專校院的﹐30%以上的落差現在﹐而且還加大這8年來這8年來﹐原住民與非原住民﹐大專校院的﹐我們就讀的學生的﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17739.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17765.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
沿漢的落差百分之三十以上而這8年來還增加拉大這個落差雖然當然我這幾年我從這個第8屆開始當立法委員之後一再的協調教育部後來非常感謝葉俊隆當教育部部長很短嘛很短因為卡關後來就離開了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17771.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17793.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
這個這麼短的時間他同意去修了這個教育部的有關大專校院外加2%外加2%的部分多了一計劃可以有特殊情形的時候外加5%外加5% |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17797.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17822.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
所以這個是誰的前者呢就是教育部跟研運會然後要去協調這個大專校院那基本上現在大專校院都不會反對為什麼呢少子女化然後學生越來越少他還招不滿呢在這樣的情形之下而且是我們是外加外加百分之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17824.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17843.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
一部分很重要的需求的列科外加5%的話也不影響一般考生的名額你是多幾個位置都沒有問題嘛何況現在是少子女化所以這個部分就是要繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17846.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17873.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
這個繼續努力我們共同的去協調當然這是我的責任最重要繼續協調教育部、研運會外加百分之五的比如說土木工程我們就外加百分之五每個學校都外加百分之五的話我們的考生這個畢業的學生畢業的學生自然就多了當然而且為了就業當然他就會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17874.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17890.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
往這方面去考試當然除了這個之外以前台北市研明會還會開補習班為了原住民行政特卡早期現在好像都沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17891.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17920.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
跟委員報告這一點原民會有原民會他在鼓勵各縣市提出這個所謂這個考前加強班那確實也有因為這樣子然後考取的所以我們也希望將來原民會還是可以繼續這個做法我們要繼續做共同的協調顯然啦對我們要看他的列科多有沒有再以這個為主啦是他剛好考上那個是土木的 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17921.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17949.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
但是還是我們看這個比例當然還是不夠啦組合真的是太多啦不組合入企真的是太多所以這個部分連那個考生都還不如那個呢需用名額對啊考生都還不如需用名額他還是不敢去考報名的還是不敢去考跟委員報告我們也觀察到就是原民特考的三等特別到考率特別低 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17950.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17976.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
就是有100個人報名但是真正去考的剩下一半對 這個也是原民學生應考人的信心可能要這個這方面我們可能要再跟教育部也好或者是原民會我們共同來找一個可行的一個方案然後鼓勵讓他們報考以外還要倒考 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17978.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17986.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
道考還要錄取就是這個部分來配套來協助我們原住民的應考人所以這個部分我們從這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17988.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18014.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
整個從110年到113年而且還是正好你在位的時候當考試委員的一個期間這個不足額的名額反而是加大真的是一個非常可惜的就業的一個機會所以這個部分是我們要繼續努力的地方我們共同的去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18015.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18043.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
尤其是有這麼好的一個從國民政府時代開始有的山地行政特考到這個有一段時間是中斷了當時我也是一個協助者之一我那時候還是公務人員所以這個部分我們要繼續的來努力好這個很重要的議題這個國家年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18044.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18067.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
就是軍公教錦霄軍公教錦霄的年金改革當時蔡總統在105年5月20日就任之後不到一個月就成立了國家年金改革委員會這個邀請了 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18072.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18100.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
各機關相關機關的代表當然包含當時的考試院、行政院也有立法委員、考試委員還有地方政府很重要的就是還包含軍公教的代表還有勞工勞工的代表、移民的代表都有因為當時的國家年輕改革委員會的目標不是只是針對軍公教、警校還包含勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18101.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18124.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
因為當時都認為公保要破產了這個勞保要破產了所以要改革開了多少次會議呢20次的會議20次的會議算很多吧應該是有充分的討論經過充分的討論之後考試院考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18132.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18148.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
根據國家年金改革委員會所做的一個會議而且這個是當時的副總統陳建仁所主持的是成績很高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18150.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18179.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
然後提出了由考試院在106年3月30號．函請立法院審議這個公務人員退休複習法因為你那時候還沒有在考試院吧你那時候在哪裡元明會的樣子106年2017在元明會你知道你知道考試立法院通過的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18181.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18210.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
有沒有通過考試院的版本沒關係我來告訴你通過的是段宜康等立法委員所提案的在106年4月7號就是比這個考試院送來的版本還晚了一些時間而這個版本呢很簡單就把考試院的版本呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18211.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18239.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
砍多少就加砍加砍本來砍多少再加砍是這樣的一個版本那因為民進黨當時是絕對多數所以所通過的是段宜康的版本不是總統府大張旗鼓開了20次的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18242.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18271.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
的那個版本不是喔是段宇康的版本因為有這樣的一個情況當然你會說現在是考試立法院在審查啦但是考試院的意見也很重要也很重要所以我要讓你知道說這個過程是這樣如果按照當時考試院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18272.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18301.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
其實就是挺慷慨了這個時候因為現在已經實施好幾年了所以這個部分當然這個議題是蠻是確實是目前是立法院的事情沒有錯所以未來你也必須要去了解這個部分因為如果你繼續當考試委員的話也有人會問你所以這個部分那因為立法院未來的一個實施的審查情形是如何也還不確定也還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18302.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18326.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
也許是等你上任之後所以怎麼樣去說服未來的考試院院長、副院長或是前序部這個都是一個可能性所以這個部分是有這樣的一個狀況最後剩下幾秒鐘原住民的參政前、政治參與一直到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18327.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18348.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
修憲之後到地方制度法的制定都是有三眼平眼現在要把它拿掉是很困難的因為這是保障各個族群好謝謝鄭委員好謝謝被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18352.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18377.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
報告全院委員會對考試委員被提名人伊萬納威尋答部分到此為止謝謝伊萬納威被提名人列席答詢報告全院委員會針對考試院院長、副院長及七位考試委員被提名人之資格及是否事任相關事項均已審查完略本案作以下決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18378.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18382.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
提報院會以記名投票表決現在散會 |
| IVOD_ID |
16348 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16348 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-06 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-06T13:59:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-06T19:07:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |