| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea4d2bbad01105bb9cad9f551ce5fa921fa82e37f9ba35fd7719f89cce129ab9f35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算。二、審查「公職人員選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
38625 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 19:14:00 |
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845.267 |
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845.591 |
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審查委員楊曜等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
968.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
968.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
998.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1011.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1043.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1047.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
審查委員楊曜等12年度中央政府總預算案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1941.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1943.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
主任秘書報告出席人數。現在開會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1951.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1979.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年12月4日星期三上午九十二分至下午一時三十五分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員張宏祿委員等14人練習委員葛如軍委員等22人練習官員大陸委員會主任委員邱垂正及相關人員海峽交流基金會董事長吳豐山及相關人員主席徐昭基委員新穎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1980.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2004.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定二,邀請大陸委員會主任委員及海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並被質詢。報告事項與討論事項合併詢答。大陸委員會主任委員邱垂正、海峽交流基金會副董事長兼秘書長羅文嘉報告。委員張宏祿等21人質詢。分別由大陸委員會主任委員邱垂正、海峽交流基金會董事長吳豐山、副董事長兼秘書長羅文嘉答覆說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2004.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2020.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
決定一、登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完必詢答結束。二、為其答覆部分請相關機關於一週內列以書面答覆並複製本會。討論事項一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。二、審查財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2022.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2042.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
三、審查財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案決議討論事項所列之預算審查相關提案請於113年12月13日中午12時前送至立法院內政委員會以立後續審查事宜。宣讀完畢好,請問各位同仁,上次會議議事錄有無錯誤?好,無錯誤,議事錄確定繼續進行討論事項,請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2049.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2064.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算。二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法修正草案，計六案，以審查委員楊曜等17人擬具公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2065.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2091.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具《公職人員選舉罷免法》第六十九條條文修正草案。三、審查委員翁曉琳等16人擬具《公職人員選舉罷免法》第五十三條條文修正草案。四、審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具《公職人員選舉罷免法》第五十二條條文修正草案。五、審查委員徐宇珍等39人擬具《公職人員選舉罷免法》第七十五條及第九十條條文修正草案。六、審查臺灣民眾黨黨團擬具《公職人員選舉罷免法》第三十二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2102.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2108.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本日議程所列討論事項,何必詢答?首先介紹在場委員及列席官員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2120.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2146.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
來的都介紹來的都介紹我們從左邊開始張志倫委員高金素美委員徐以貞委員牛許廷委員黃建斌委員林思明書記長林建祺委員邱振軍委員黃仁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2148.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2161.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
葉元之委員、邱若驊委員、廖先祥委員、張宏祿召委、徐巧欣委員、游皓委員、鄭振前委員、蔡奕瑜委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2180.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2199.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
林佩祥委員黃潔委員王美惠委員蘇巧惠委員李博義委員吳祁銘委員林黛嬅委員邱奕穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2211.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2237.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
列席官員中選會主委李敬勇主委內政部部長劉世芳部長司法院民事廳法官張宇嘉法官法務部參事廖江縣參事行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李易柔、李專委 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2240.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2250.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好,請提案委員說明提案要旨。好,我們請徐宇貞委員提案說明。沒有太燙。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2275.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2297.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
謝謝主席針對本席所提出的這個選罷法的這個修正案的提案說明那我想其實有鑒於現行的公職人員的罷免案的連署成立僅需要原選舉人數的總數的10%依照成罷免的腐爛需要社會的資源而且罷免的過程中會造成社會的對立公民的對立也會影響社會的安定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2304.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2330.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
甚至在罷免的過程中也有可能發生同意罷免票數低於當選票數的一個狀況那也形成少數的民意會否決多數民意的不合理現象而且選罷法裡面有規定就職未滿一年不得為罷免的規定但是對於罷免提議跟後續的一個連署卻沒有禁止所以導致選舉結果出爐後即能啟動這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2334.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2362.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
大免的不合理的現象也讓一年內不得罷免的利益立法的原意盡失一可能助長報復性罷免的惡性循環所以為了維護人民的罷免權以及兼顧公平性跟社會安定並給予當選人適當的保障所以我提出公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條跟第九十條的條文修正草案那也希望說藉由這樣子的一個修正不要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2363.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2364.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2387.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2388.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
二、審查委員李竹樂委員禁用報告。請法案與預算案一併報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2417.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2434.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席、各位委員、大家早安今天大院審查本會以及所屬114年度的單位預算非常榮幸能夠應邀來列席萬分的感謝各位委員對於本會各項業務的支持以下僅就本會所屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2435.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2451.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一百一十三年度已過期間的施政績效以及預算執行的情形。一百一十四年度施政計畫重點以及預期的績效。還有一百一十四年度預算編列的情形來提出報告。敬請各位委員能夠會與指教。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2452.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2464.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
首先,包括113年度已過期間施政績效以及預算執行的情形。第一,順利完成第16任總統及副總統以及11屆的立法委員選舉。第二, |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2468.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2482.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
辦理選務宣導工作：包括多元及數位媒體的宣導：落實在地的宣導：加強對新住民、原住民以及身心障礙者的宣導。第三、辦理三場總統候選人電視政見發表會：一、一場副總統候選人政見發表會： |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2489.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2505.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
二、審查兩場原住民立法委員選舉候選人電視證件發表會﹑一場全國不分區及僑居國外國民立法委員選舉政黨電視證件發表會﹑七十六場的區域立法委員選舉候選人電視證件發表會以及五場辯論會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2509.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2517.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第四、辦理基隆市第19屆市長謝國良的罷免案。第五、辦理臺中市議會第4屆議員第15選舉區、宜蘭縣議會第20屆議員第4選舉區缺額補選以及新竹縣議會第20屆議員第7選舉區、臺東縣議會第20屆議員第16選舉區的缺額補選。第六、積極參與國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2538.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2558.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
選舉組織AWEB以及AAEA的活動。第七、全國性公民投票電子聯署系統的上線。第八、辦理選務幹部人員講習六期。調訊人員總共有235人。第九、修正公職人員選舉公辦證件發表會實施的辦法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2561.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2571.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其次報告113年度截至10月底至預算執行的情形。在稅務的部分,113年度稅務預算是5850萬4千元,到10月底為止累計分配數是4969萬5千元,累計實收數是7298萬元, |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2589.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2595.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
應收數46萬5千元合計7344萬5千元超收金額2375萬元主要因為沒入得票數不足候選人保證金收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2607.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2616.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
其次在稅出的部分113年度稅出的預算數是18億6126萬1千元到10月底子累計的分配數有18億1174萬5千元累計致用數含預付款15億7638萬3千元執行率達到87.01% |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2634.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2661.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
114年度施政計畫重點以及預期的績效。第一點,電腦計票系統納入ISO27001的驗證,研擬資訊安全管理政策規範以及標準。第二,規劃辦理選務幹部人員講習。第三,積極參與國際選舉組織會議跟活動。第四,按計比對公職候選人基本資料以及法務部確定判決的資料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2663.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2665.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
徹底執行公職人員選舉罷免法第112條的政黨連坐裁罰案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2670.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2698.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
其次包括114年度預算編列的情形在稅入的部分114年度稅入預算編列111萬1千元稅出的部分114年度稅出預算編列4億8千6百6萬3千元較上年度預算數少減少13億7千459萬8千元主要是減列第16任總統副總統以及第11屆立法委員選舉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2700.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2713.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
經費預算內容如下,在一般行政部分編列1億368萬1千元,較上年度增加531萬8千元,主要是深算增略調整待遇等經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2715.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2741.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在選舉業務的部分編列三千零一十四萬一千元,較上年度減少十三億七千八百四十三萬一千元,主要是減列第十六任總統副總統以及第十一屆立法委員選舉的經費。第三,地方選舉委員會行政業務編列三億五千一百六十九萬一千元,較上年度增加一千零五十七萬七千元,主要是升列增列 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2743.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2761.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
審算增略調整待遇等經費。第四、一般建築及設備編列15萬元較上年度減少1206萬2千元,主要是簡略參建臺北市廣池博愛園區的信義行政中心辦公廳設工程物價調整等經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2765.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2794.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第一預備金的部分編列一百萬元人照上年度的預算書編列。結語本會以及所屬114年度預算編配合行政院訂定之籌編原則秉持臨機預算精神通盤檢討編列並在有限的資源內妥適的安排各項施政。敬請各位委員支持及指教。謝謝那這部分是有關於預算報告的部分。緊接著報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2796.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2806.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法修正草案審查報告公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2818.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2836.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
以選舉結果攸關選舉人、候選人的權利,候選人是否或者是選擇什麼樣的權利救濟程序,允於尊重候選人的決定。而且候選人得票數相同時,修正規定均應由 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2838.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2858.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
舉機關向管轄的法院申請重新計票,恐有增加司法資源以及各級政府經費予以負擔之餘,也將延宕了同法第38條第1項第6款,規定選舉委員會應於投票日後7日內公告當選人名單不利於選舉結果的及早確定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2861.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2871.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
有關於候選人的申請重新計票之得票數差距修正為有效票千份之十公職人員選舉罷免法第69條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2875.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2901.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
審查現行公職人員選舉罷免法第69條第一項有關區域立法委員直轄市縣市長選舉的結果得票數最高跟次高候選人得票數差距或原住民立法委員選舉結果得票數第三高與第四高的候選人得票差距在有效票數千分之三以內時次高票或得票第四高的候選人得於 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2902.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2921.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
投票日後7日內申請重新計票的規定是按照黨團協商的條文通過並且在96年11月7日修正公佈候選人對於選舉結果認為有選舉無效或當選無效的原因事實時可以分別依公職人員選舉罷免法第118條以及120條的規定向管轄法院提起選舉訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2928.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2954.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
候選人得票數如果有符合同法第69條所定的重新計票規定時也可以向管轄法院申請查封選舉人名冊以及選舉票由法官來辦理重新驗票所以選舉結果攸關候選人的權利候選人是否或者是選擇何種權利救濟程序我們認為應該要尊重候選人的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2954.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2978.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
至於將候選人得申請重新計票的得票數差距由有效票的千份之三修正為千份之十將會導致重新計票案件數量會大幅增加造成司法及行政資源及各級政府經費負擔及社會成本過高的情況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2981.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2997.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
有關於縮短禁止發布民調的時間由現行投票日前10天改為投票日前3天公職人員選舉罷免法第53條的部分為了確保選舉的公平跟公正避免投票日前10日內 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2998.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3027.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為民意調查資料的發布等行為左右或主導選民選舉的意向並且動搖選民的信念不論該等資料是否屬實或者是客觀在投票日前10天發布等行為選民沒有足夠的時間可以來做分辨其他候選人也沒有充分的時間可以來加以釐清如果放任及散佈等行為可能會影響到選舉的公正性 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3028.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3054.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
此為公職人員選舉罷免法第53條第三項規定的立法的目的,如果將10天修改為3天,是否能可以維繫原立法目的,以審慎的考量。再其次是有關於禁止非政黨推薦候選人未經政黨授權在宣傳品上使用政黨負責人的頭像、政黨負責人姓名與政黨標籤, |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3056.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3083.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個牽涉到公職人員選舉罷免法第52條的部分按政黨是否推薦某位候選人或者是否願意授權非該政黨推薦的候選人使用其政黨負責人的頭像、政黨負責人姓名與政黨的標章等等應該是屬於政黨跟各該候選人之間自主的事項且多涉及選戰勝選以及政治結盟的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3084.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3107.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
至於如果有肖像權相關的增值也有民法相關的規定的規範是否採行現行的規定的措施允於考量。再提示是有關於公職人員就職未滿一年不得為罷免之提議與連署公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3109.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3134.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
以現行公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條規定公職人員的罷免由原選舉區選舉人向選舉委員會提出罷免案但是就職未滿一年者不可以罷免所以有關公職人員選舉罷免案的提議提議人之領銜人在公職人員就職滿一年後才可以向選舉委員會提出罷免案 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3135.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3158.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
草案規定公職人員就職未滿一年者,原選舉區選舉人不得為罷免之提議,以罷免案尚未向選舉委員會提出前選舉人是否進行提議,選舉委員會無從知悉,也沒有辦法查核該罷免案是否是在公職人員就職未滿一點前就已經進行連署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3160.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3185.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以在實務上執行的確有自愛之處且在公職人員就職滿一年後使得進行罷免案的提議即為延後罷免案得提出的時間需並同審酌至於有關於公職人員罷免案的連署必須在罷免案提出提議經合於規定之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3185.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3203.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
提議人的領銜人才可以領取聯署人的名冊格式,並依聯署人名冊格式來徵求聯署。所以,罷免案若在公職人員就職滿一年後時提出,尚務須再規定公職人員就職未滿一年者,原選舉期選舉人不得為罷免聯署之規定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3206.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3231.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
再其次是罷免案投票通過需有效同意票超過被罷免人當選得票數公職人員選舉罷免法第九十條的部分。查現行公職人員選舉罷免法第九十條規定罷免案投票的結果有效同意票數多於不同意票數且同意票數達原選舉區選舉人總數的四分之一以上即為通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3232.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3262.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
有關增列同意票數上期超過被罷免人當選時得票數一截以各該公職人員選舉因為選舉制度也就是單一選區或者是複數選區各選舉區的應選名額選舉人的人數各選舉區的規模等等都不相同當然就會影響到當選票數的高低而且各被罷免人當選得票數各有不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3264.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3286.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
將至各被罷免人罷免案投票通過的門檻不同又被罷免人當選時的投票率跟罷免人的投票率並不相同規定同意票數上去超過被罷免人當選時的得票數是否允當仍有待社會各界凝聚共識。再其實是有關增列候當選人未依法完成就職 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3288.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3305.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
選舉委員會應通知其繳回已領取的保證金公職人員選舉罷免法第32條的部分當選人沒有依照法律的規定完成就職之態樣是多元的當選人如果是因為死亡、重病 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3306.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3320.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3326.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3332.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
審查委員會及所屬單位預算案關於中央政委委員會及所屬單位預算案。三、審查委員會及所屬單位預算案關於中央政委委員會及所屬單位預算案。四、審查委員會及所屬單位預算案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3347.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3363.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
為依法完成就職選舉委員會應通知其繳回已領取之補貼金額公職人員選舉罷免法第43條規定的部分當選人為依法完成就職之太陽多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3363.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3389.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
如當選人是因死亡、重病、羈押或服刑等事由而無法就職,是否亦屬於知意參選而追繳其競選費用之補貼金額,上職審酌至同項但書,雖然也有規定不可規則於當事人之事由至無法就職並不予追繳競選經費的補貼之出外的情形,但是候選人競選經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3392.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3409.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
補貼的規定涉及候選人得否領取競選費用之補貼,所稱不可歸則於當事人之事由,就所何止定義未明,在執行上也會發生困難。以上是就修正個案的這個報告,敬請各位委員指教,謝謝。好,接著請內政部劉部長釋方報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3425.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3443.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
昭偉主席各位委員女士先生大家早今天就內政委員會開會審查大院委員包括楊耀、莊瑞雄等17人蘇清泉、徐欣盈、徐宇珍等23人翁曉琳等16人陳冠廷等25人徐宇珍、徐欣盈 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3444.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3468.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
蘇清泉等39人以及臺灣民眾黨黨團所提的《公職人員選舉罷免法》以下簡稱選舉罷免法的部分條文修正草案共計六個案。內政部應邀列席報告深感榮幸,僅將本部的意見說明如下,敬請各位委員參考。第一個,就是針對票數相同者先行重新計票,待結果仍相同時時與抽籤決定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3471.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3499.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
卻較為公平合理,為需考量當選人名單公告的實效。有關楊曜委員等人提案修正選罷法第六十七條,增列候選人選舉票數相同的時候需先重新計票。重新計票結果仍為票數相同時,時以抽籤決定當選人一節。針對候選人選舉得票相同的處理如能先行重新計票,是結果仍相同時時以抽籤決定,卻更符合公平合理原則。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3500.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3519.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但是在重新計票需要再耗費相當的作業時間當選人名單是將延後公告、試射選務執行的部分那內政部會尊重中選會在選務方面的意見第二有關放寬申請重新計票的門檻孔使申請重新計票案數增加應該審慎考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3521.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3547.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
有關蘇清泉委員等人提案修正選報法第69條德項管轄法院申請重新計票的標準由得票數差距在有效票千分之三以內放寬為千分之十以節依照憲法法庭在112年憲判自第18號判決意旨現行系包含區域與原住民立法委員直轄市長及 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3549.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3569.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
縣市長選舉以外的公職人員選舉得票數最高之落選人與其得票數與當選最低得票數差距在有效票千分之三以內的時候均得依法向管轄法院申請重新計票已經增加法院及選務機關的工作負荷考量地方層級選舉競爭激烈 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3570.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3579.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
候選人間得票數差距甚為如果依照提案將申請門檻放寬為落選人得票數差距為千分之十以內者會再增加該等選舉重新計票案量增加法院跟選務機關執行量能是否足堪負荷也需要併同來考量那內政部會尊重司法院及中選會的意見。第三有關縮短選前民調發布的禁制期 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3599.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3613.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
懇使候選人在投票日前難以有效澄清所謂的虛假資訊並且有助長不實民調發布的嫌疑。有關翁曉琳委員等人提案修正選報法第53條將禁止發布民意調查時間從選前十日縮短為選前三日以節。查前開選舉民調發布的禁制規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3621.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3650.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
是為了避免不實民意調查資料誤導選民候選人未能有效澄清修正或為維持自由的投票環境避免任何民意調查影響選民判斷所以規定在投票日前十日禁止公布民意調查如果修法縮短民意調查的限制時間為投票前三日會使候選人在投票日前對於不實資訊無法有效澄清此外是否反助長發布不實民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3652.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3668.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
都待商榷。第四、候選人冒用未經各該政黨授權的政黨負責人頭像等資訊在《公職選罷法》已經有刑事處罰可以處理,增列行政法的必要性有待斟酌。有關陳冠廷委員等人提案《公職選罷法》52條增訂非政黨推薦候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3672.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3690.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
衛經政黨授權,不得在宣傳品上使用政黨負責人頭像、姓名與政黨標章以截,考量政黨是否授權個別候選人及授權關係是否存續,因屬政黨跟各該候選人間的自主事項,又依照選罷法第104條規定,意圖使候選人當選或不當選以文字、圖畫、 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3695.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3721.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
錄音錄影等方法散佈謠言或者是傳播不實之事足以生損害於公眾或他人者是處五年以下有期徒刑所以如果有候選人冒用不實政黨推薦資訊以影響選舉投票結果應該有上開的規定可以適用是否有必要修法增列行政法因為涉及選務機關的裁罰作業有沒有執行障礙我們也是尊重中選會的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3722.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3746.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
第五是有關調高公職人員罷免通過門檻的部分,建議社會各界要凝聚共識,再行研議。有關徐委員余珍等人提案,修正公職選罷法75條明定公職人員就職未滿一年者不得為罷免之提議於連署已結。現行公職選罷法第75條第一項但書已經明定就職未滿一年者不得罷免。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3747.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3760.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以公職人員罷免案的提議自須待公職人員就職滿一年使得向選委會提出,又依照公職選舉法第79條第二項規定,罷免案的連署系屬選舉委員會含告該罷免案提議人數符合規定後使得為之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3767.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3784.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
公職人員就職未滿一年不得對其罷免聯署徵求的限制其必要性有待斟酌。又需委員提案有關《選舉法》第九十條針對罷免案通過的門檻,增列同意票數要超過被罷免人當選票數以節。 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3786.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3806.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
考量民意系隨不同時空環境變動,罷免投票時選民同意、反對或中立不投票均為對罷免案通過與否的表態,又現行公職人員選舉大多為多種類之選舉合併於同日舉行投票,與罷免投票是單獨舉行投票情形不同,因此被罷免人當選時的選舉投票率與罷免案 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3810.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3819.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
投票率並不相同規定同意票數上虛超過被罷免人當選時得票的合理性有待商榷在貴委員會113年7月3號所召開的公聽會裡面與會人員對於罷免通過門檻應否修正也各持有不同的意見也就是說沒有共識所以是否調高罷免通過的門檻建議待各界凝聚共識後再行處理。第六針對未就職的當選者 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3839.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3860.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
除以扣繳選舉保證金及競選補助款其處理明確性及合理性可以再斟酌有關民眾黨黨團提案修正選罷法第32條跟43條明定當選人為依法完成就職者如無不可規則因素所繳納之保證金不予退還以及不予補貼競選 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3862.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3885.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
貸用已結。因當選人無法就職的情形包含死亡、硬案羈押或服刑、經判決當選無效確定、徵集入營服役以及個人健康或其他因素放棄就職等情勢,並非全可歸則於當事人。如果要對不就職者扣繳其選舉保證金涉及當選人權利之限制, |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3886.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3915.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
允應明確列明何種情形,使與處罰,以渡爭議。用選舉補助款,也是用以補助候選人競選活動之用,並且以候選人所獲票數作為計算標準,為我國公費選舉措施之一,並與當選後之行為無涉。如針對當選人無法就職者及不予補貼競選經費,恐與上開補助制度目的不符合。以上六案報告,敬請各位委員指教。感謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3919.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3933.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢答委員諮詢前原力做幾點宣告第一本會委員發言時間4分鐘必要時延長1分鐘非本會委員發言時間4分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3950.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3970.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這是參酌上個會期也是我們內政委員會那時候打詐專法吳釗偉的時候就是這樣因為今天登記人數眾多我們也希望讓大家可以暢所欲言這個是按照我們第11屆內政委員會第一會期第22次會議就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3985.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4012.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4025.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4035.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
本席參酌大家的意見張昭偉提議本席接受所以再次宣告本會委員發言時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4040.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4045.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
必要時得延長1分鐘非本會委員發言時間4分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4053.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4070.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
二、因為今天預算、詢答及法案處理本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見?好,沒有,OK那我們現在進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4073.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4101.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言。請在場的委員注意會議的秩序。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4106.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4111.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
現在我們已經進入,我們現在已經進行詢答了。剛剛沒有登記,所以我們現在進行詢答。 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4124.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4135.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4144.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4158.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
好了,請大家注意會議秩序這個是州委安排的權利我們現在接著進行詢答請第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4167.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4173.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
因為尋答的時間是召委安排的,這是召委的基本權利。 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4202.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4207.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們現在進行詢答,請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言。蘇巧慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4236.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4237.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
請蘇巧慧委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4257.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4261.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
請大家注意會議的繼續。請安靜。我們尊重蘇巧慧委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4265.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4270.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
謝謝主席我們請主委主席我想先說這不是尊重蘇巧慧委員因為蘇巧慧委員數學很好4加2和5加1都一樣是6分鐘所以主席一點都沒有尊重張宏祿委員的意見延長至少本會委員會這個拿出去講你看大家都笑了4加2和5加1你能夠得到不同的答案這個我覺得立法院也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4294.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4319.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
時間請暫停本席回應一下蘇巧慧委員我剛剛說本席剛剛說尊重蘇巧慧委員是說請大家安靜他要質詢了這第一個第二個本席第一次宣告是4加1後來張昭偉提議了本席就說5加1所以是你們在吵鬧中沒聽清楚我也尊重好不好請開始詢答請開始詢答好來來主席我們請李靜兒李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4331.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4355.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
主委我今天還是這個我們要進行的有兩個案子一個是中選會預算的審查那另外才是第二案選罷法的這個討論那老實說剛剛主席這個我們等一下有六十多位的委員在今天都分別登記了 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4356.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4362.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
要來這裡做討論,要來做質詢。那我們在這裡呢,非常非常的期待等一下所有登記的委員都能夠按照議事程序,完整的進行詢答,議事程序不會變化。那,因為今天已經是12月5號了,我們的規定的會期本來是只有到31號,今天才要審預算,其實真的是很晚了吼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4384.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4388.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那我本來呢也準備了很多題目啊比如說這個像中選會的題目裡面我也很想詢問一下中選會啊你們在第四頁裡面說去參加了這個維護選舉公正性以防制選錯假錯訊息國際研討會到底帶回來什麼樣的成果我也想聽中選會報告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4405.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4409.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4430.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4434.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
四加一的時間來進行我對選罷法的想像對我對選罷法的意見五加一五加一的時間寶貴的五加一的時間老實講我們在七月的時候七月的時候不是已經進行過這樣的議程了嗎而且當時都新聞有看載 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4452.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4456.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
其實我今天本來是這個新聞截圖有我們在座北委會委員的這個圖像但我覺得尊重委員會同仁彼此的情誼我們就沒有放出來了這確確實實就是國民黨自己說的有共識在推7月8號國民黨要說爭議很大所以現在暫緩奇怪了今天12月5號今天難道社會有共識嗎有共識的話剛剛不會吵成這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4476.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4485.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那現在是怎麼樣?國民黨要自己打臉自己嗎?這是第一點啦!到底為什麼今天要排捨棄中選會預算審查來排這個選罷法?我希望這是我的臆測啦!大家沒有要放棄預算我們今天就把預算按照議程走完這是第一個本席的主張第二個我們來看看今天所謂要推的選罷法修正是什麼?剛剛已經說了嘛!罷免的門檻到底是什麼?欸主委我想請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4506.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4508.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們對選舉罷免的意義到底是什麼?選舉罷免的意義?憲法賦予人民選舉罷免的意義是什麼?就是選民意見表達嘛意見表達的方式把名譽轉換成結果代議事所以我們可以賦予代議事權利但我們也可以收回嘛也有收回這就是罷免的意義所在沒錯吧?主委是的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4536.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4545.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那麼現在如果我們按照今天這樣子來看的話今天的版本徐委員提出的版本那我們的罷免會是什麼樣的狀況說得很好聽說是罷免的同意票勝過當時選舉的票數來啦我們來看看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4556.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4559.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們歷屆的選舉,歷屆的選舉好了,投票率是多少?我們從2008年到現在2022年,每一屆大選的投票率都將近七成啊,都將近七成,這是台灣人民對自己權利的表彰嘛,連2024年也是七成。好,可是罷免案呢?來,我們來看罷免案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4577.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4581.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4595.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4606.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
投票率就是只有五成啊最高的就是陳柏惟的那一次五成的投票率啊所以台灣人民其實很聰明啊剛剛用這種什麼社會安定這樣子來講老實說大部分的人要不是被激到受不了要站出來沒有人要來做罷免案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4615.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4643.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好!但是你不能因為這樣就剝奪人民的權利啊!所以你今天把罷免的投票數直接拉高到同意當時投票的同意數往上堆疊其實你就只有一句話其實你就是只有一句話你就是要把人民的罷免權收掉就這樣而已數字很清楚所以不用再講什麼其他的你唯一心理想的就是要沒收人民的罷免權主委你同意我的看法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4644.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4660.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
關於這個修正案我們認為有兩點是大家必須要深入去討論的第一個就是說有關於公職人員的選舉從選舉的投票到罷免的投票這中間要經過至少一年半以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4661.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4668.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4691.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4693.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們來看看這麼多年來從1992年到現在2018年最後丁守中柯文哲這一些事件當中的驗票來來來我們來看一下後面的驗票哪一件有成功過 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4705.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4709.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4730.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4732.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4747.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4760.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
當然是很大的啊我甚至參與過總統的驗票那曠日廢時所以這麼大的成本那你現在到底要開放到給多少人來進行這個驗票大家如果再說選務成本剛剛我聽到這個版本說一個為了社會安定一個為了選務成本所以今天提議了這些版本本席已經多給你一分半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4770.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4777.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
主席,今天這麼嚴肅的案子,大家時間都不夠,所以我相信大家都希望能夠上所欲言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4779.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4799.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以主委我希望等一下你也能夠好好的表達現在的法律其實是能夠已經最完善保障人民權益和選務秩序以及社會安定這是現行版本我們應該要支持的是現行的版本是希望能夠讓中選會有充分的說明的機會好 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4803.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4824.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
謝謝蘇巧慧委員本席也在這邊說明這週是預算案復委之後本席第二週的排案第一週排案本席已經有排中選會的預算但是當時民進黨委員杯葛我們沒辦法開會那第一週的排案有另外兩天 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4824.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4848.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
一天公聽會也是在更早之前我們這個公投法也是民進黨本會民進黨委員提案要排公聽會而且是設定就是那一週所以我們排了一天公聽會再來另外一個是國土計劃法前面已經排了兩次的會議所以延伸下來在那一週本席排了國土計劃法的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4850.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4871.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
第三天本席可以排案就是排了中選會的預算這週是本席可以排預算案的第二週而已所以我們排了陸委會跟海基會的預算審查今天再度排中選會預算審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4872.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4874.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4911.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4916.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我請李主委跟劉部長好請李主委劉部長好那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4933.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4951.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
主委跟部長我們今天當然是主要的深水區這我想是選罷法我想請教一下李主委就人民的創制複決權等等的你覺得選罷法如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4953.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4960.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4982.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5009.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
選罷免的門檻各國規定的標準當然不同,詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整。我跟您講,全世界如果有這樣,我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多一票。這個很奇怪,那為什麼不多5%?那為什麼要怎樣?我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5010.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5018.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5025.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5043.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5053.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5079.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入的來思考這樣子的修正是否合理第一個就是我一再的強調在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間中間至少要經過一年半這一年半的時間民意有變化了人事有改變了所以你用 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5079.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5106.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意這個是不合理的這是第一點那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候他的投票率也好他的當選人的當選的席次也好他參選的人數也好這個基礎都不一樣的所以也會影響到得票數的多寡 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5107.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5114.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5135.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5138.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
選前民調公布日期在世界各國有沒有相同規定? |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5151.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5167.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們所瞭解的應該有啦,應該有,詳細的資料我們並沒有做收集跟整理。有啦,台灣在制定這個也是參考國外的啦,對不對。因為為什麼呢?這個叫做選前的寧靜。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5170.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5190.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的讓選民能夠去從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的哪一個訊息是假的他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票主委如果我們現在改成前三日 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5191.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5204.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那在三日前弄一些假訊息假民調你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的是假的嗎?不會互相背後啦對啊時間太拼了對齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5208.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5231.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
主委,所以我個人是認為啦,國外的規定很多,但我們台灣10天我覺得是比較剛好啦,為什麼?我們兩千多萬人,我們什麼樣的人都有,那我們的訊息管道真的太多了,還有對其他不友好的國家的認知作戰,如果你在選前三天,哇! |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5232.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5245.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5260.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5284.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
同票數要先驗票,然後再來做。我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法。同票數,現在是直接抽籤嘛。對。那也有人提到說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤啦。是,那我們會考量到說要公告這個當選人的名單啦。因為你在重新驗票的時候呢,不是我們所想像當中的那麼的簡單。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5286.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5314.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
包括村里長也是一樣尤其村里長的差額非常的小那如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間每個人都重新驗票的話恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單那因為他後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟的這些處罰的原則所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好部長跟主委再給我三十秒我覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5315.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5339.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
你這個東西不能夠縣市長跟縣市議員等同看待我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的你與其後面的訴訟冗長然後又很多的東西村里長你要重新驗票其實我說真的兩個小時就可以完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5342.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5354.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們相信選務人員選務人員他的數值都很高這個出錯的機會很少但這不影響公告的時間而且會同票數的整個選舉結果不會有幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5357.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5372.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的但是如果以總統以直轄市市長那就不一樣了所以我覺得這一個部分可以去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5373.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5388.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
村里長的部分要不要這樣那其他的我們往後再看你不要齁村里長齁每次的最多抽籤的都是村里長啦或是鄉鎮代表啦阿這個其實選舉人數都不多啦可以很快處理啦你們的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5393.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5408.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這個限制是 現行的制度是先抽籤抽籤完了你不服氣再來驗票限制是這樣子 那修改是說不管你同不同意就是先驗票 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5409.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5415.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5439.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5466.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
主委我剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分我認同是要先驗票因為選舉人數不多嘛而且我們的選務人員就在那裡這個很重要這個對村里長來講很重要我跟你講這個很重要我認為真的是可以去改變與其後面的訴訟而且也不影響我們公告的時間我們公告的時間至少七天後 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5467.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5480.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5482.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5505.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
報告張委員您的說法可以商量但是村里長要先寄票重新寄票然後再公告當選那為什麼縣市議員、立法委員和總統也不按照這樣的決定所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行可能會比較公平我覺得這個可以討論我覺得我們好好討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5511.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5513.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
主席主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5529.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5534.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
主委好想要事先請教一下主委我們陸配參政的問題不管是登機參選還是說被政黨推薦一定要符合資格中選會才會列為選舉公告上面正式成為候選人對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5549.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5554.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是就參選的資格是由中選會來審查對嘛參選的資格對啊對嘛所以說你才公告嘛是不是對但是已經被中選會正式列為選舉公道上的候選人資格也得到中選會的認證了請問為什麼候選人被公級資格不符的之後中選會不會願意出來澄清呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5577.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5583.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以說中選會主委做事情都不用負責任嗎?中選會只管到參選的資格所以資格登記後你是負責認證、符合嘛你才公報的嘛,是不是?至於當選之後他的就職相關的規定還有其他法律的規範那就不是中選會管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5603.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5607.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5631.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5635.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
副總統候選人吳欣儀女士也被攻擊雙重國籍的時候中協會也是說擺爛裝死然後事件發生台灣事實證明這個網站澄清後依據兩岸人民關係條例陸配必須取得身份證後還要在台灣涉及滿十年才能登記成為公職候選人擁有公職的資格對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5661.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5676.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
第一點在總統選舉的時候有關於吳欣盈候選人的國籍的部分中選會沒有擺爛沒有裝死而且是發函請外交部幫我們所以因為我們是台灣事實查核中心網站公佈我們很認真很詳細的來審查他的資格他的參選的資格是沒有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5686.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5688.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
剛才我問的問題所以說是不是說我們陸配要在台灣設籍滿10年才能登記嘛 對不對是啊所以呢反而來說就是他們是只要在台灣有設戶籍10年以上他就符合資格嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5706.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5711.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條公職 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5722.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5726.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
但是我們外配就用任外的法例所以只要在台灣有戶籍十年以上就符合資格如果你覺得說陸配還是那個外配拿身分證辦理是一致的話所以如果一致的話我們外配的父母是不是也可以跟陸配一樣可以定居台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5747.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5758.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
委員會跟你報告這個問題牽涉到三個機關三部法律只要你管的機關你說對就對了不能再去講了惡話牽涉到的法律是選罷法第二個機關是陸委會牽涉到的法律是聯邦人民關係條例第三個機關是內政部牽涉到的是國際法所以你要全盤的看才能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5778.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5786.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
你只要回答你的責任範圍,你管不到他們,他們有回答他們的範圍,不用你再去解釋。然後第二個,聽我講完,因為時間的關係,剛剛主委的報告說有提到114年的預算實施計畫中有幾大重點,其中有電腦系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5799.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5804.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
標準的驗證加強選舉人員的專業知識以落實的宅法案件。那是我們知道中選會的業務還有就是在集中除了大選之外每年的執行業務狀況都差不多啦所以請教主委在我們中選會113年的業務執行的狀況你覺得你滿意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5828.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5847.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
一、一三年的部分一、一三年我們最重要的一個選舉就是總統、總統、副總統所以說你滿意嗎我滿意我們通常都相當的盡心盡力除了選務之外事情都沒有做好幫你回饋一下哪一點沒有做好請委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5847.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5857.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
來你自己看所以確實有很多地方沒有做好還有就是電子選舉與專業知識的方面要加強比如說我們罷免與公投投票是不是是我們公民參政與選舉的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5868.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5871.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
非常重要非常重要的一份如果是的話為何兩個系統罷免連署系統還有公投連署的系統從107年到現在只有公投連署系統在4月上線罷免連署系統到現在都沒有辦法上線使用但是呢但是還編列了149萬維護費 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5899.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5905.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
請教一下這樣子都沒有上線還要去編列線上的維護費的使用但是呢我們現在就是我們的公投的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5916.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5920.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5944.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5958.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
二、審查委員堅持公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員堅持公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員堅持公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員堅持公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5962.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5966.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
公投不會連署了嗎?上限你沒有編列維護費,所以這個機器你已經車役好了,你不用再維護了。但是我們沒有看到你的預算,你預算的是編列維護罷免系統。公投的罷免系統你沒有編列,表示你車役已經沒有問題了,是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5988.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5991.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們有編列維護費公職公投的這個聯署系統在已經上線了我們隨時都要一面準備這是第一點所以表示你覺得說我們明年不會你預測到了還是說你們覺得他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6012.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6014.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6036.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6037.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
王美惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6066.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6067.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
主席,請留部長跟理主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6077.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6088.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
主委補充告詐,在這裏本學先把我們補充談論到,我們現在有為了我們的理論做過的六項,還可以去申請一萬六十五費。在這裏面本學所了解,您給他的未到金三十萬,本學在這裏要建議說, |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6105.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6114.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6123.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6128.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6142.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6151.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6170.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6198.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是執法的公告那公告的預告我重新再講一下現在預告快結束的時候呢大概會有收到很多不同的意見包括說現任跟承認里長要不要包括這一屆或者是說獎勵金30萬或者是說他有承認譬如說這個外患內亂或者是社攤的部分要不要取消 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6200.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6228.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這三個意見我們會在做比較審慎的研議之後在執法預告結束之後再做一下修正再來對外做我們內政部的公告的版本當然我們都很肯定包括很多委員很關心像村里長他們在春節的慰問金或者是九任、六任以上這個六任要不要連續六任要不要包括現任的部分都有不同的說法我們會把所有的意見全部收整之後做一個最對外的公告說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6231.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6237.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
不好意思,委員暫停一下,再麻煩你按一下麥克風,他才會開始錄音,謝謝。謝謝,感謝主席。在這裏補充一下,說明得很清楚,因為我覺得這個高麗里頂,我相信無論在哪一棟都希望這樣做,所以在這個規定當中,我覺得我們要去做, |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6255.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6260.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6275.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6277.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6292.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6295.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6308.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6314.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
在此,說實在的,我如果問這樣,算你來行的,我才算孩子要問大人的回答。在此,我認為我們的選法法,政府未來的選法法就是說,跟你來補算,在這個過程中你做一件事,做啊做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6329.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6335.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6358.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6363.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案關於中央政委委員會及所屬單位預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6381.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6389.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這就是民意的一個流動,所以你不能用之前一年半前的民意跟現在的民意來做比較。 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6411.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6415.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6426.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6428.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6452.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6456.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以在這東西是鄉親給的名字以後,過一年過年外的時候,他覺得他沒有實際對我們的承諾的時候,我們要不要罷免,很可能會比東西是選給他更多票。 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6472.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6483.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這不可能吧!是會流動的!對啊!所以說在這個選法法裡面,我覺得大家要慎慎去評估,如果好的民意代表,我們當然要來撈下來,要繼續讓他為北省來服務,有時候他如果做得不好,未必他該做的工作的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6498.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6503.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
罷免,我們要這個法,要修好,不管什麼人,都是一視同仁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6509.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6510.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
黃建斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6542.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6544.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
好謝謝主席我們請李主委好請李主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6553.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6579.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主委早安早主委我們早在今天要討論今天的議題之前我想要請教主委一個問題主委你最近有沒有發現一份新的民調是根據台灣民意基金會的最新民調就是民眾對於賴清德總統處理國家大事的方式包括重要的人事安排還有政策他的贊同率只有42.8%是上任以來最低 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6580.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6586.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
不贊成率更超過贊同率,呈現死亡交叉。總統聲望下滑5.8個百分點,等同流失113萬人支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6596.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6618.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
在我們這個左內閣的內閣的這個施政表現滿意度更不到4成不滿意度也是高於滿意度剛安天公會閉起來聲望重挫5.4個百分點也大概流失超過100萬的支持者在這邊要問一下主委身為內閣的議員請問你對這樣的民調有什麼看法對於我們中選會的表現又有怎麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6619.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6636.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
就相同或類似的事件所做的民意調查不一而足當然我們作為內閣的一份子對於相關的民調都會注意但是同時作為一個獨立機關我們不方便評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6637.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6659.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
好,謝謝主委的說法,表示尊重。但主委提醒主委不要忘記,民調其實就是民意的展現。那為什麼民眾對現在的總統府、總統跟政府有這麼高的不滿意度?那我根據同一份民調來顯示,有關朝野政黨持續對立的責任歸屬,有高達46.8%,就是最快一半的民眾認為,這政黨你要負最大的責任。 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6664.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6674.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6688.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6699.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6715.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6730.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
新國會學者智庫公布,將近七成民眾認為八大罷免不利於國家安定。也有許多學者表達,現行罷免制度恐會衍生腐爛罷免,造成社會對立動盪,因此將近高達六成民眾並不認同現行罷免門檻。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6733.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6739.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6751.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6758.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6768.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6796.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
民進黨的提出這個惡意罷免的案子很簡單,就是我們民進黨的立委許智傑也曾經在接受廣播節目的時候講到嘛,他說一直在發文講,他說民進黨只能用罷免的手段才能讓國會過半,不然我們會苦四年。他甚至鎖定了九個,九個國民黨籍的立委罷免名單,他說因為這的人比較好罷免,我們要選這個高的人,其中的包括我本人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6797.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6811.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我認為在這段時間內我和大家的同事相處也不會壞我也很認真地學習我也很認真地想要把選區選民交代的任務來解決可是我們不知道為什麼我們也會被列進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6812.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6838.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
他自己說,其實這些被點名罷免的名單,有些相處很中性,一碼幹要到頂。由此可見,其實徐委員心裡面他自己很清楚,推動這個罷免其實一點都不合理,只是為了政黨的利益,要把人拉來搶得過半日西翅。我想這樣子,因為這樣的罷免要浪費那麼多人民的納稅錢,浪費我們社會的能量,這個是撕裂這個整個國家安定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6839.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6858.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
懺悔民主元兇這絕對有檢討的必要性我尊重委員這一番這個說明但是我另外有一個問題委員是不是可以做參考就是說在委員的面前你認為說如果說有什麼罷免的草之類的你認為沒道理的嘛那沒道理是應該有道理沒道理應該就是這個論述嘛相互鳴的攻防嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6866.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6875.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那不應該你認為說到底有沒有道理有沒有道理是要用修改法律變動選制來處理這樣子的問題我感覺英國之間可能有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6882.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6889.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6907.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6908.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
二、審查委員黃潔委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6952.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6953.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6964.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6982.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
好 那我這邊還是要表達一下我認為今天既然是預算跟法案同時審查其實就應該依照慣例至少要有6加2以上的時間或是5加2以上的時間像昨天其實也是5加2但其實張偉就讓黃國昌委員一個人講了15分鐘甚至張偉自己也講了12分鐘結果今天在這邊限制我們的發言我認為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6989.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6992.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7006.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7021.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
每天登記的人不同本席是維護今天登記發言的特別民進黨委員今天登記發言特別多所以本席希望說讓大家都可以暢所欲言所以稍微調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7022.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7046.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
謝謝,好,謝謝昭偉。那我也認為如果要暢所欲言至少也要讓我們維持基本的這個分中數啦,否則照目前這樣的時間實在是很難在這麼短的時間內把我們所有想講的內容不管是對預算的意見還是對今天如此重大的法案包括過去,其實,不好意思時間先暫停,現在還是在回應昭偉喔。好,可以暫停。 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7048.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7073.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好 謝謝那因為包括今天審這個選罷法也是非常重大的法案那其實朝委也知道說過去其實國民黨團也二度的說今天這個法案是非常有爭議所以其實也都暫緩排案那今天既然這個法案要在這裡審查要尋答這麼重大這麼大家也都認為應該要好好審查的東西結果時間還比較短這樣豈不是很難對所有的人民交代嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7074.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7101.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個時間沒有最短本席剛剛有說明在我們內政委員會第一會期就上個會期有4加1今天是5加1那再來就是預算跟法案審查的時候其實我們還有更多我們深入討論的機會謝謝好 謝謝昭緯那我也說因為今天不只是法案還有預算那上個會期其實沒有預算所以今天是兩倍的內容兩倍的工作量大家的討論時間應該要更充分 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7103.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7132.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
對今天有比上個會期多了的時間多對我知道多了一分鐘一分鐘要處理兩倍的工作量這樣還是非常的不夠登記發言的人數是三倍好謝謝其實不管登記發言的人數是多少既然發言的人多我們就應該要有更充分的時間討論可以再多排幾天都沒有問題你可以今天也排接下來下一次在輪值到我們徐昭偉的時候你再排 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7132.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7135.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
也很好啊,大家用更多的時間、更成熟的來把這個非常完整的法案內容做討論,這樣是不是更圓滿呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7143.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7170.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
好,可以開始質詢,請您開始。好,謝謝張委。那首先我們請教一下主委,因為今天其實這個選報法的提案有非常多提案委員內容都不一樣。那要進到這個細節的討論實在是時間不夠。那我還是要講一下這個罷免權的核心,因為我自己作為當事人,其實罷免權的精神就是人民可以選你上去,就可以把你下架下來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7172.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7182.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個是賦予人民最基本也最核心的權利可是呢今天看到一個非常非常關鍵的一個條文是說接下來他們希望把這個罷免的門檻變成是當選票數加一這個門檻是不是施行下去會變成史上最高不只是鳥籠罷免甚至是要把這個罷免進到豬籠裡面完全再也無法行使了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7204.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7222.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們認為罷免是憲法所保障公民的參政權所以不管是選舉、罷免、創制、復決法制的制定、調整、修改都應該要站在以保障公民的參政權為出發點 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7224.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7228.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7252.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7278.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
公民權的部分所表示的意見第二點就是罷免跟選舉這個中間時間的落差有一年半不管是罷免也好不管是選舉也好都是一個民意的檢驗民意的檢驗但是民意在一年半的時間裡面會有很多的變化人事都會有很多的這個更迭 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7279.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7287.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
三、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第四、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第五、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第七、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第八、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第九、審查公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7302.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7322.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7332.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7337.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： 公職人員選舉草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7362.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7369.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
昨天說要還權移民今天就沒收罷免權這不是雙標 什麼是雙標所以我認為在這邊很明顯國民黨就是為了要鞏固自己的權利根本就是威權的擁護者根本就是為了要把所有權利自攬在自己身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7381.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7398.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以才會進行這樣的修法那其實剛剛主委說到的我也非常有感因為我個人也被提過罷免當時在我選上之後過了兩年多被提罷免的理由竟然是因為說我違反香港的國安法甚至是因為我支持同志運動 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7400.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7414.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這個不只是跟當時我當選的這樣的時空背景環境不一樣更跟這個罷免行使權利的理由一點都沒有正當性所以我非常認同其實剛剛主委所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7415.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7429.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7435.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7462.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
在選前一定的時間裡面對於民意調查的一個限制這個在國外的立法例也很多最重要的一個理由就是不希望這些各項的民調來影響到選民的判斷尤其有很多民調並不一定是接近事實那麼候選人本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7463.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7478.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7492.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7521.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
在協商通過之後到現在為止民調影響這個選舉的事情情況是越來越複雜是越來越複雜越來越多越來越嚴重所以在這樣子的一個條件之下反而是是不是要思考這個時間可以再延長沒錯那你反方向要來縮短的話我們認為實在是非常需要再審慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7522.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7546.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
好,謝謝諸位的說明,我講一下,因為其實這個選前民調要10天之前來公布,當時的時空背景是這樣,在2000年的總統大選,選前兩天,時任台北市長的馬英九他公布了連戰的民調已經贏過了宋楚瑜,所以導致宋楚瑜以30萬票之差敗給了陳水扁,但是當時連戰跟宋楚瑜最後差了170萬票, |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7547.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7566.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以後來這個被稱作為馬英九條款這個就是在當時的時空背景之下朝野共同決定這個如果沒有規定10天的選前民調的話一定會有受害者當時最大的受害者就是宋楚瑜所以呢直到去年宋楚瑜都還在講什麼他說國民黨就是創始的假民調這是宋楚瑜說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7571.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7598.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那結果汪小林現在要把10天改成3天我看了一下支持的人有傅坤祺總召耶當時2000年的時候傅坤祺總召就是親民黨的耶他自己出門都不幫宋楚東主席來抱一下軀來幫他解釋一下幫他鼓勵一下結果這個時候還跟著汪小林搞這種非常不適宜的修法那我也講一下最近的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7600.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7618.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：一、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7625.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7639.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
上次上次排會你們浪費大家一整天的時間好不好不要講這些沒有意義的話你尊重大家好不好時間到了每個每個委員會都這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7649.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7654.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
二、審查委員王國昌等15分﹑張偉等12分﹑張偉等12分﹑張偉等15分﹑張偉等12分﹑張偉等12分﹑張偉等12分﹑張偉等12分﹑ |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7669.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7672.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7700.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7718.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
當時最大的受害者是誰?是國民黨耶!就是因為這樣最後才沒有藍白河嘛!所以按照汪小林委員的修法這種民調如果在選前三天公佈以目前的情況會不會不一樣了呢?所以我認為這樣的修法真的必須要非常審慎時間甚至可以再延長而絕對不是縮短請國民黨自己想清楚謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7727.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7729.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好接下來請張志倫委員主席好各位委員各位官員大家早有請這個李主委請李主委跟劉部長請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7758.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7769.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
部長好 主委好首先要跟部長跟主委請教最近大家所關切非常大的一個國際新聞南韓總統尹錫悅在12月3號宣布戒嚴歷時6個小時在12月4號凌晨宣布戒嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7776.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7800.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
但是立法院民進黨黨團卻發文附和支持這樣的舉動,引發大批網友抨擊後刪文,並馬上在4日也澄清絕對不支持戒嚴。消息傳回南韓之後,南韓主流媒體及日本媒體紛紛報導,直指民進黨支持戒嚴是在野黨批評後才迅速刪除。 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7807.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7816.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
民進黨黨團發文:「南韓國會被親北韓勢力操控,南韓總統李錫悅為守護民主自由體制,緊急宣布全國戒嚴。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7817.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7840.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
最後一段時間關係不要懷疑聽台灣的我們其實每分每秒無時無刻都在抵抗世界等級的暗黑勢力在侵蝕這個國家可是事實上是什麼事實上是以習越他的聲望低迷在於不僅他的夫人有一些醜聞或一些弊案以及他治國不佳導致南韓十月份的物價指數大漲1.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7842.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7844.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7869.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7885.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
南韓戒嚴民進黨聲援全世界都看到這個真的是民進黨的真心化大冒險民進黨搞認知作戰到這樣的程度不僅讓臺灣的國際關係低落也傷害國家團結以及民主自由過去以來的民主自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7886.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7907.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
賴清泉的總統在國慶演講大聲疾呼要談團結國家安定社會可是現在卻縱容自己本黨民進黨團用認知作戰來分裂國人台灣是在民國76年解嚴金門是在民國81年解嚴為什麼要請教主委跟部長的原因因為只要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7909.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7918.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個戒嚴的國家其實就是沒有選舉所以我想要請教李靜永主委跟我們的劉部長對於這樣子民進黨這樣子發文的意見報告委員我們內政部並不是戒嚴的主管機關所以沒有辦法回應李靜永主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7936.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7951.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們從媒體報導得知當韓國總統發布這個戒嚴令之後那我們國家的國安單位他們是隨時掌握了相關的訊息那麼也做必要的因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7952.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7980.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
同時賴總統雖然仍在國外訪問但是也能夠完全掌握整個的狀況那這樣全盤的看起來是有準備的是有準備的國內各行各業也沒有發生有什麼這個不安或者是動難的一個狀況我們希望我們希望這個國內的這個這個安全社會的安全國家的安全都不會因此而受到任何的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7981.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7991.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以主委不支持這樣子的發文內容不僅傷害台灣的國際關係以及傷害台灣的民主自由及國家團結是嗎?中選會對這方面我們不予評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7992.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8014.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
不予評論,那應該就是不支持了。好,那接下來我來請教,其實在立法院內政委員會經過民進黨三次的杯葛議事,今天好不容易立法委員可以上台質詢。在我們中選會的報告裡面也提到謝國良市長的罷免案, |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8015.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8039.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那我特別要提到我認為罷免案絕對不能是政治惡意罷免尤其這個李酉昌前部長他當時在謝國良市長的罷免案他不僅發臉書需要說這個要來支持這樣的罷免案然後等到這個罷免案結束了以後他才這個10月13號罷免案是罷免案的進行中他在前一天晚上我還記得他有發臉書還是什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8040.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8066.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
然後在10月16號他經這個媒體採訪的時候他才提出如果是有大罷免的話即便是值得商議討論而且這不是民主常態那我們可以看到現在很多的新聞不管是青鳥等等的活動都在支持大罷免那我是不是想請問一下你們跟這個前內政部部長林佑昌的想法是不是一樣是不是不支持這樣子的大罷免行動是不是請部長跟主委回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8070.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8097.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
報告委員我們在主管選舉罷免法的時候其實並沒有政黨的差異任何個人或任何團體按照選舉罷免法所提出的提議、連署或者是罷免或者是其他的包括公投在內的創制、復決我們一切都是依法行政所以每一個公民有他們的參政權還有言論自由我們都充分尊重我想這是我們憲法所授予民主國家必要的公民的參政權的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8097.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8112.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好,謝謝部長,稍等一下齁,我想請教部長,內政部長林佑昌是說他不支持這樣的大罷免活動也非常太,那你的意見是支持所有公民團體不管是政黨的公民團體的自由意識是嗎?所以你跟林佑昌的想法是不一樣的? |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8113.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8128.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
李佑昌現在是民進黨秘書長我現在是內政部部長所以我說內政部所主管的法律裡面我們是保障每一位公民參政的權利包括選舉罷免、創制、復決我們都是依照規定來辦理請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8132.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8158.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
主委是,謝謝主委中選會是一個獨立的機關我們秉持選務中立依法行政的立場對於各項選舉罷免的業務都是依法來執行好,那接下來馬上請教在選法法第七十五條就職未滿一年不得提出罷免可是在內政部的函令是寫說未滿一年進行罷免可徵求提議所以現在離這個就滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8159.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8187.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
還沒有未滿一年我想要請教竹蕊到底現在在收罷免的聯署書是否合法合規選罷法的規定是就只未滿一年不得提出罷免案所以中選會在審查提議的文件的時候我們當然是必須要在滿一年之後我們才可能受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8187.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8214.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
一年內收取聯署書可以嗎?在滿一年之前到底他的聯署書是什麼時候收取的我們因為案子我們還沒受理所以無從去查我們無從去審查沒有審查因為媒體在大街小巷都在收取你無法審查我們只是法律沒有規定不能把頭埋在沙子裡就看不到但是我們要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8215.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8235.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
的確是有這樣的事情,所以請你調查了解嗎?那最後再請你回後再提書面資料給我。那最後再請跟部長報告,我支持剛剛王美惠委員所講,里長任滿六屆滿65歲是要提供他一個,現在提議是30萬的一個,給他一個慰問金。 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8237.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8260.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個部分其實地方的政府尤其地方的民政機關有在提議說這個部分的錢是不是中央可以來支援因為如果是一次性的話金額才會高達數千萬其實對各台灣的地方政府都是一個財務吃緊的部分那等到這一次如果第一次性的付完了以後等後續的這個錢每年如果有任期滿65歲以上的地方政府來支援這可以來協助嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8262.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8278.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
是我知道地方政府會有財政上的困難但是我們也是希望說在審查的時候這個法律可以先通過好那地方政府的經費的話再想說再請部長我們的預算並沒有現在先編列進去對就是後年度才可能會發生再拜託部長來協助好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8284.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8294.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
徐宇珍委員徐宇珍委員答詢完,諮詢完我們休息五分鐘,讓行政單位可以用洗手間謝謝主席,我們請內政部劉部長,中選會李竺偉請劉部長李竺偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8310.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8325.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
許議員好部長好主委好部長主委我想從2016年的這個罷免門檻下修之後各式的罷免案就經常的發生那根據中華民國的憲法規定的話人民有創制復決選舉罷免的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8327.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8342.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那既然罷免是在我國憲法上在直接民主下承認的一個制度所以我要針對聯署的部分跟你們請教請問一下部長就是平凡的罷免案會不會造成國家選舉資源的浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8345.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8367.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
報告委員我想要從另外一個觀點來切進去就是我剛剛所說的如果這是憲法賦予公民應該有的權利的話我們充分尊重但是平凡與否比如說您剛剛所提到從2016到現在為止我們所看到的部分大概各個政黨都有人被罷免或是各個政黨都有人提出罷免案那您認為平凡的罷免案會造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8369.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8377.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8397.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8413.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
2022年1月11日,民進黨立委郭國文、賴瑞榮都有提出,為了避免政治鬥爭的罷免,層出不窮,主張區域立委及行政首長的罷免案應該加上罷免票數須高於被罷免者的得票數,預防未來出現惡霸的狀況。當時部長您擔任立法委員,您也有連署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8420.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8431.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以您也提到說罷免門檻有必要提高並審慎考慮是否要維持民意代表可以被罷免的制度那即使維持民意代表可以被罷免也應該區分為單一選區跟複數選區的罷免標準那請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8437.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8459.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
當時您的主張是怎樣?對,報告委員,這個案子呢,第一個借其不敘審。然後再來呢,我來主張的部分的話呢,我是覺得是可以討論。那就是剛剛我所說的,罷免與否,或者是選舉與否,這是公民的參政權。那不要有政黨惡性競爭的考量的話,我們願意呢,跟各個政黨來做一個公平公開的溝通跟交流。 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8460.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8474.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
現在我們在做一個公平公開的訊答跟討論請教一下部長跟主委現在的罷免制度有雙低的問題就是成案條件低跟通過門檻低的雙低設計的缺失 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8478.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8486.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
也讓罷免變成有心人要建構個人聲量的政治工具現在也有多份的民調顯示有超過58.9%的人反對這種少數否決多數的罷免規定也有超過56.6%的人支持罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8496.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8509.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
同意票應高於我們當選的同意票數所以針對這個部分請問部長跟主委你們看這個民調認不認同現行的選罷法有這樣子的一個缺失要如何修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8510.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8537.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所謂少數否決多數這樣子的講法我是覺得太過簡單太過簡單而且基礎事實是不一樣的為什麼說太過簡單呢因為在這個選舉的時候選舉的時候他的這個選舉人數投票率當選人數這個候選人的人數都不一樣跟罷免的時候完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8538.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8542.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主要大家提出來的部分就是說現在的門檻走25%相對的低那但是我這次也沒有修正這個門檻沒有提高門檻的部分但是有可能這一位這個這個民意代表還有可能是三成的選票當選的那我們用25%把它的罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8561.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8563.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8580.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8589.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8603.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8610.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8619.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8624.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8635.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8643.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8655.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8661.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
內政部的報告說:「建議在各界凝聚共識後再行處理委託。」這句話可被解讀為內政部也不反對修罷免的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8668.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8693.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
報告委員我剛有跟各位委員報告就是說我們在內政委員會有舉行過兩次的公聽會各個學者專家的意見我們都審酌過了表示各界都沒有共識那我也可以解讀成各個政黨也沒有共識因為現在的現任的制度就是當時各個政黨在立法院裡面所這個同意出來的一個標準那如果說各個政黨在立法院所以現在我們就是要再來討論這樣子的一個問題嗎所以我說要一句共識是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8697.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8702.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8713.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8721.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8734.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8737.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9289.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9292.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
好繼續開會接下來請李博毅委員謝謝我們請中選會李主委好請李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9325.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9345.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝主委其實今天在審的這個選罷法裡面當然還有幾個內容但是其中會讓人民最覺得最被限縮這個罷免門檻的其實就是當選票數加一這一題那其實這一題我也覺得是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9346.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9373.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
真的是在上一次真的是在11月20號的時候韓院長召集的政黨協調裡面他形式上通過的二讀版本他形式上協調完的二讀版本就是聯署罷免聯署要加身份證影本這件事情其實已經真正限縮人民的罷免權了主委你怎麼看我這樣舉例齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9375.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9382.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
在11月22號的時候當11月20的時候韓院長召集完這個協調11月21號 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9387.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9412.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我就收到2020年當年在高雄市領銜罷免韓國瑜的領銜人尹立的電話他告訴我說這事情多嚴重以當年的罷免來講要罷免韓國瑜市長的時候來講高雄市兩百多萬個公民宿當年如果有這個罷免連署身份證銀本 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9416.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9441.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
當年必須要繳交最少23萬份高雄人的身份證銀版當年2020年的時候罷韓團體他是送繳了40萬份聯署書另外自己再被40萬份聯署書存底送到高雄市選委會來讓高雄市選委會來做查核如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9443.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9471.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們今天在內政委員會審理的這個加一其實是國民黨版的雙保險之一啦第一個罷免門檻加身份證的其實已經沒收了人民的罷免權利也就是說如果還要再罷免一次高雄市長當時的韓國瑜他必須要收到高雄市民超過25萬份的身份證銀本這是多大的事情啊主委你覺得這可行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9473.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9501.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
關於聯署必須要檢附聯署人的國民身份證影本這一點我們的立場最主要基於兩點理由我們認為是不宜第一個理由就是這是對於公民參政權的一個限制免宜要審慎現行的制度沒有自愛難行主委你講到公民權的一部分我再提今天還有一個案子除了加一之外還有一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9502.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9530.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
也就是不得提議、不得呈案。中選會接下來你接的案子會接不完。某某人、民眾、任何公民團體對於委員、對於立法委員或對於縣市長對於立法委員當天的言行或主張認為是有問題的話在網路上公開貼文批評要罷免。這樣算不算提議? |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9531.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9544.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9549.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9573.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這種主張我們都認為必須要審慎必須要讓社會很清楚的知道現在內政委員會現在立法院現在國民黨團提出來的版本到底要怎麼樣限制人民的權利我在這邊這樣主張啦我講一個剛剛我也看到其他國民黨團齁其他不在內政委員會的委員都有來關心這個案子也就是加一的這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9573.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9591.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
包含徐巧欣原本她當選的票數八萬九千七百二十七票依照現行的罷免制度投票當天給她的人認為她要罷免她的票數是五萬八千七百零四票如果今天通過這個加一的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9592.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9605.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
變成八萬九千七百二十八票比五萬八千七百零四票的版本多增加百分之一百五十三另外一個葉寅芝委員也一樣增加百分之一百三十四 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9606.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9626.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個就是人民當初把票投給你的時候就應該有這個罷免的權利你當選了之後要馬上把這個罷免的權利收回第一招先用這個身份證門檻第二招再用加一我認為生生不可啦所以在這邊必須要對 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9628.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9641.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
負責的對全國人民負責的對所有可以行使公民權利的人民來表述我們不支持這一個修法的門檻即使它是雙保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9643.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9668.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
謝謝委員不管是對於這個聯署的時候的國民身份證影本以及當選這個罷免案要多於當選的時候多一票這兩個修正的案子呢在選務機關的立場上我們其實認為應該要非常的審慎甚至於我們認為啦限制是不宜做任何的更改 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9669.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9694.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
投票的當天我在投票給這個立法委員或投票給這個縣市長我當年高雄市八十九萬人投票給韓國瑜的時候他就認為他應該好好的第一次來高雄選舉好好的當市長在隔年他宣布要選總統所有的人生氣所以當年會有超過八十九萬票 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9695.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9719.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
的同意罷免韓國瑜的人數到達93萬票這個以後也不會有了啦這個已經是空前的了但是人民記得那時候整個公民運動記得其實罷免的門檻不需要到這麼多其實只要到幾萬票就可以了只要到25%同意大於不同意就可以了現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9721.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9738.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
投給立委也一樣當年投給傅坤祺總召68786票同樣的只要48442票就可以罷免傅總召你今天要把他提高到68787票提高142%這個不是詐騙集團的作為 這個是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9744.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9751.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個就是詐騙集團啊這個就是你投我的時候那個罷免權我突然我當選之後我來自肥 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9751.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9761.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9780.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9806.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
經過一年半的時間即便是當初投票支持的人他的立場也可能會變化他可能也會流向這個投票支持罷免對我們反對這個行為最後我也希望今天有非常非常多也是區域立委也有部分區的立委都來內政委員會來參與這個討論希望可以給大家完整的討論不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9808.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9809.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
二、審查委員吳祁鳴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9839.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9845.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好,召委,我們與會同仁,我們政府官員,請我們中選委主委。好,請立主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9853.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9870.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
委員好,我首先拜託召委已經到12月5號了今天離我們要修會的時間也很近了我希望今天我們是可以先來審查我們的預算再來處理法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9871.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9893.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那我在這邊還是一樣啦針對就是我們的選罷法六十七條第一項就要求同票數進行驗票的確認所以楊耀所提出的提案的就是以相同的抽籤來當選擇那這樣的話會變成一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9900.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9910.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9928.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9955.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
主委這個問題我們一定要在中選會要審慎來做評估就選務來講的話就是如果是同票雙方對於抽籤都沒有問題那抽籤決定了大家都接受了這就省掉就是進行這個驗票所必須要耗費的這些成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9956.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9973.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9980.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10004.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
對,所以楊曜的提案本席是會非常的認同所以針對這一點我們中選會可以來做研究好,那再來勒就是今天我們有委員提高公職人員罷免的通過的門檻其實現在的罷免我看我們的大選都是來到七成罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10007.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10019.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10034.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10050.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10063.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10072.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
由其越近那假消息就越多那假民調也是越多所以在這種情形我認為維持10天這是應該是比較適當 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10076.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10091.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公� |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10102.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10107.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10119.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10131.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10149.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10151.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
劉許廷委員中選會主委李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10168.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10194.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
主委辛苦了今天很多委員要質詢可能比較辛苦一點但沒有關係大家隨便討論昨天最新的禁新聞的政經情勢民調指出選罷法的修法在今天要討論的其中一個條文也就是說同意罷免人數要大於罷免人的當選票數46.3%的民眾黨贊同修法方向是高於不贊同的比例過去民眾黨公布的有63.9%同意加嚴選罷法的連署過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10197.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10215.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
在加嚴連署過程的前提條件之下還要再提高這個相關的就是同意票要大於這個罷免同意票要大於當初的當選票數也都還是有51.4%的人同意那再早一點新國會智庫公布的是58.9%的民眾不認同現行25%的罷免門檻這個認為罷免同意票要超過當選票數的是56.6%認為發動大罷免不利國家安定的有將近70%請問從中選會的角度如何回應這樣子的一些民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10227.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10255.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
若干的這個民意調查資料我們都看到了我們也都會做參考那關於相關的修正案中選會所持的理由也在歷次的這個討論當中我們有充分的表達委員如果有什麼指教的話我們也很願意在這個機會來向委員做說明就民意論民意啦基本上現在看起來多數民意是有支持這樣子法條的修正你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10256.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10260.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
或是說你有別的數據或是有別的資料跟證明說並不是多數民意?我對於這些問卷他們的這個問卷的這個設計並不是很清楚但是不管怎麼樣你這些民意調查我們都會作為參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10271.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10299.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
剛剛很多報案行政單位的立場基本上我們每次修法的時候行政單位大部分的立場都很保守都說在未有充分的共識之前不宜隨意推動對不對但是主委為什麼我們今天立法院要有所謂的表決的機制為什麼我們要有所謂的黨團協商為什麼要有所謂委員會討論不就是在試圖擱置爭議或者是行訴共識嗎對不對如果真的不能如果真的在很多的法案上沒有辦法達成共識的時候在民主的這樣子一個大的遊戲規則下面有沒有解決的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10300.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10316.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們作為法律的主管機關以及執行機關也有責任必須要在修法的時候把我們的立場要說明清楚我們說明的這個內容也希望能夠得到委員的支持就沒有共識不構成不修法的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10317.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10342.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
因為沒有共識的題目多討論也許出現共識如果真的在大部分的討論情況下最終還是各執一詞的時候也有所謂的民主的表決的機制嘛這主委你至少不會否定這樣的說法對不對我們尊重立法院所進行的承諾尊重立法院所進行的承諾謝謝好你剛剛在回答前面委員答詢的時候你有講說民意起起落落啊這個用什麼過去的民意跟現在的民意來這個沒有辦法及時的來反映我想問主委一個概念罷免應不應該是常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10343.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10368.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
就是我們在做代議政治的推動代議政治這樣子的一個過程中罷免應不應該是常態我想至少從憲法的規定把它規定在一起選舉、罷免、創制、複決這是權利對不對這是公民權我完全同意這是權利規定在憲法裡面它就是一個常態但是它是權利但它不應該是常態它如果是常態的話那我們是不是應該定期罷免公民權的常態公民權的常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10368.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10369.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10389.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10411.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
所以罷免如果符合法律的規定的話也應該算是一種常態雖然它不是一個定期的它不是一個定期的那它怎麼會是常態呢對不對所以罷免是一個公民行使的緊急權利也就是說當民意代表也好機關首長也好天路人員的時候人民可以站起來用他法律憲法所賦予他的權利來進行一個推翻所以這一點非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10412.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10435.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
就是選民對於當選人的支持已經有懷疑了已經有不同的意見了我們今天修正這個法律有沒有剝奪這樣權利其實沒有對不對我們只是訴求在過程中嚴謹中有更多的討論而且要符合最新的民意脈動站在我們的立場我們認為是加嚴了1994年也就是在降成25%之前的版本是什麼一半吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10438.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10440.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10449.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10466.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
投票但是得票率得票率必須要得票必須要超過四分之一對要超過但有沒有像過去的版本一樣硬性規定投票率是沒有但是這個相對是有機會以前在硬性規定投票率的時候只要投票率不達標這條報名案就不成立所以大家會用冷處理的方式迴避民意那現在這樣的修法有沒有有沒有這樣的狀況不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10468.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10492.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
因為你到最後還是要面對啊!因為很有可能你不處理的時候反對的警察人數你就輸了嘛!對不對?那我再問一個問題我們用實際的數字來計算以桃園第一選區為例好了本期當選的票數11萬6千票左右當選票數48%但選區總人口數是33萬9也就是說我們的當選票數其實佔總人口的總人口數其實大概是3乘5左右大部分今天在座的區域民意代表大概都是這樣自己算一算就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10493.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10508.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以當選票數加一也並不是回到2016修正之前的超高門檻而是在1994年的那個超高門檻跟2016年顯然大家現在認為有一點太低有可能讓罷免騷擾變成常態的情況下中間求取的平衡吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10509.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10510.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
不管是35%、40%或是10萬票、20萬票在投票選舉的時候的這個數據它並不是不動的它並不是不會改變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10525.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10552.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
尤其是這個支持支持度經過一年半到你講民意可能會變變化對對對人事這就是為什麼我一開始要問你罷免應不應該是常態的原因嘛罷免是突發嘛他不是常態常態叫選舉嘛為什麼我們要規定四年一次就是避免這個任期太長結果這個民意代表或者是機關首長背離民心你本來就一個選舉的機制放在那個地方去做汰換罷免是因應特殊狀況的時候他才有這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10552.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10578.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
所以你如果特殊狀況的門檻低於常態的門檻,這是很奇怪的一件事情,對不對?主委我這樣講沒有錯吧?你把它用這個常態,罷免變成常態,可能大家對於這個用詞的理解都是一樣。這個我不否認,但是43年再來的狀況是不是就是這樣?可能會影響到對於罷免相關制度的一個判斷。所以我不願意用是否常態,我只願意用如果符合相關規定的話, |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10580.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10607.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
其實今天如果沒有這樣子的所謂的大罷免或是連續發動或是什麼的話大家今天搞不好也不會討論選罷法我們就把話破到底去講但是實務上來講報告委員那這個我認為在修法的背景上動機上就有一些問題了是因為有特殊的控制形式所以我一定要問你你不去檢討彼此之間的攻防而是直接的要去動它基本的這個選舉罷免的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10607.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10621.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我今天要跟你去談為什麼罷免不應該變成常態的時候原因就在這個地方嘛它本來就不應該是一個被這個權力的行使我們都支持但這個權力不應該拿來變成互相攻擊跟鬥爭的工具啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10622.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10638.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
難道不是這樣嗎?就是對於罷免是不是有所謂的大罷免草你罷免我我罷免你為了防止這種情形所以我來修改選罷法這一點我認為是不好的啦我總結一下因為時間已經到了第一個現在的民意以最近幾次的民意調查來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10639.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10668.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
同意的是多於不同意的這是民意的反應我們除了在選舉的時候反應民意之外隨時實施的民意脈動就是代議政治要處理如果這個民意已經有一定的支持度跟水準的話你本來就應該要做出討論第二選舉才是代議政治的常態罷免是特殊狀況如果真的天怒人怨剛剛很多人都講說這以後就不可能成功不會啊雖然我們這對藍軍來講是很難過的事不過韓院長當初被罷免的票數他就超過了當選票數所以他並不會因為這樣制度的修正就表示到完全不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10668.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10697.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
在非常態的狀況下依然是有可能的。第三個即便是今天照這樣的版本修正通過它也不像是1994年硬性規定的高投票率門檻它比較像是1994年版本跟2016年版本中間的折衷這三個立場這算是在野黨修法的一個正當性在這個地方跟主委做一下政策的對話但沒關係今天質詢的委員很多大家互相聽一下對方的意見這樣就可以了謝謝謝謝牛許廷委員也謝謝李主委接下來我們請徐欣盈召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10705.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10705.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
主席李珠瑋 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10718.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10738.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
李主委本席首先想請教您剛剛您在答詢的時候好像有講到你們現在準備要開始收集外國的罷免門檻的規定是這樣嗎?我們有若干資料了若干是多少?我們在整理好了之後再給整理好了沒? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10738.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10759.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
今天這個有可能在中午以前提供嗎有現成的嗎有現成的資料你們這個收集了幾個國家的所以我要整理嘛你完全不知道嗎我知道了一些但是你知道哪幾個美、英、美、日、德這四個國家你們知道嗎我請我們的同仁來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10761.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10774.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
直接回覆就是說英美日德這四個國家有沒有收集過目前有目前都知道那本席也要請教主委以一些國家他們的罷免門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10776.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10781.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10804.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10827.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
投票,您知道這個情況嗎?您對這樣子一些先進國家他們這樣的規定您的看法?這個很多國家規定的這個門檻不一而足,不一而足。但是有一點是可以確定的,就是任何國家沒有拿罷免票數跟當選票數來做比較的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10828.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10836.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公� |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10852.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10875.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
這個人他犯了重罪所以他應該被罷免我們可能10%投票門檻是10%但是投票門檻10%之前他必須要是符合他有重罪他有貪污他有被停權、被停職所以本席要表達的就是這個部分您有思考過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10877.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10893.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
也就是說人家是前面的條件他有一定的條件然後才訴諸民眾的投票這方面因為沒有相關的提案所以我們也沒有做資料的收集跟說明但是今天針對這個提案就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10894.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10899.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
二、審查委員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10918.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10937.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
在選舉期間有很多的訊息、詐騙、頻傳,您知道這種情況嗎?深受其害。深受其害,好好。所以啊,進入罷免的時候,也有,如果這個門檻,這個門檻過低,也極有可能這個錯誤的假訊息甚至媒體不時的報導,其實誤導了民眾。這一塊你有思考過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10944.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10946.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
有多少比例受訪者有不實訊息讓民眾感到擔憂已經是國際普遍現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10966.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10992.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
就聯合國2023年的調查,就是去年。您知道有多少比例者是非常擔心假訊息對於整個投票的影響?您知道有多少比例呢?你不知道?那本席告訴你,87%。有87%的民眾都對這個非常的擔憂。是,相當嚴重。好,那中選會你們的職責是不是應該要審慎的採取選舉,這就算選舉違規案件吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10997.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11016.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
有關於錯假訊息的處理尤其是怎麼樣能夠去破解跟澄清那這一點在選務的錯假訊息防治的部分中選會做得還算不錯了中選會對於有這種錯假訊息你們有沒有阻止並且澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11017.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11031.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
審查委員會針對這些候選人或被罷免人各種假訊息處理嗎?牽涉到我們選務的部分,我們一定在第一時間澄清。而且我們會跟相關平台業者都有緊密的聯繫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11038.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11054.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
有一些假訊息你們所謂牽涉到你選務什麼選務針對不實的誣衊候選人的你們有處理嗎?沒有嘛!你們沒有處理嘛!如果有相關違反選罷法的規定當事人舉發的話我們會依法來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11056.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11083.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
但是我們過去看到你們並沒有進行處理有啦有有有有進行處理那好應該要你們要維持公平公正中立你們不可以不不不聞不問我們不會介入當事人的工房但是如果有違反選罷法的案件的時候我們是會處理的這些假訊息你們會去會去協助澄清跟阻止過去看到是沒有必須要是違反選罷法 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11084.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11101.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11102.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11117.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
對阿,過去看到你們就是沒有做好。對,有啦。好,最後本席要請教您,對於那個已經當選人他因故沒有就職,那你們的這個保證金還有這個他的選舉補助你們會不會發這個發還給他? |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11123.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11143.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這個在修正案裡面我們也表達了我們的意見因為沒有就職他可能的原因是相當的多包括死亡、陰暗羈押所以你們的立場態度但是我們並沒有根據去追回這個保證金或者是補貼款沒有這個根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11146.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11170.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以還是會發嗎?還是會發。那這個有人覺得說這個應該要扣留,你們的看法?我們的意見是請大家要審慎啦,因為這個不依而逐啦,不依而逐,原因不依而逐啦。那如果他是不是他不就職,他不就職又要重新辦一次選舉,所以保證金應該是他已經完成選舉應該還給他。 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11172.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11173.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
二、審查委員蔡奕瑜委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11218.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11231.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好我們現在是不是有請我們李主委跟我們內政部我們劉部長好請李主委還有部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11232.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11252.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我先就教李主委,主委這個關於今天選罷法的這個修正事實上我們現在選罷法在草野協商甚至院會可能就要面對的一個表決就是會這個提案連署的要附上身份證的影本 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11253.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11256.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11273.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11293.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他要提出他的身份證第一他擔心這個身份證可能會被詐欺或或者是他覺得他身份證他的個資交出來對他來說是有疑慮的所以基本上在這樣的一個前提之下即罷免的一個連署就已經變得非常高的一個門檻主委你認為沒錯吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11296.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11324.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以在這段時間來事實上我們一直在思考用身分證的一個影本那算是國民黨藍白現在不斷地去講說他們認為罷免如果太腐爛或大罷免不好所以他們要把這個身分證的條件影本已經放在那結果現在我們委員會又再處理又要再加嚴一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11325.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11339.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11354.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11382.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那我們現在我們在現場我們黃捷委員他也面對過當時國民黨的惡霸投票率是41.54那我們陳柏惟基進黨的這個51.72投票率比較高那同樣當時林昶佐中正萬華林昶佐41.93的投票率謝國良最近發生的是50.44的投票率事實上以這幾次來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11383.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11409.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選不管是立委也好 不管是縣市長也好 不管是議員也好投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字 沒有錯吧是的是啊 所以這就呈現一個矛盾了那既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高在罷免的時候明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個康章那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11411.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11426.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
國民黨這個版本,要把它賦予說你要大於當選的投票數,哇,這個門檻下去,我看要罷免都沒說了啦,大概是不太可能了。我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻。 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11428.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11445.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那所以罷免的投票率即便是百分之四十甚至於低於百分之四十我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力啦當然啦所以既然是有效的一個罷免的投票率 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11446.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11460.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11474.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11481.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11491.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11513.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
是跟人民就是一個契約關係這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上人民給你這個權利讓你有機會擔任民意代表當然透過罷免就是把就是把跟你的契約把它收回然後在大法官4至499號的時候講得很清楚大法官4至499號是國大自己言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11514.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11538.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11544.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11569.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11571.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11597.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
二、審查委員蔡玉玉委員,請您尊重,好不好?謝謝。我本席到其他委員會,他四分鐘,我四分鐘到我也就停止了。就這樣,他後面沒有人了。你現在後面,你們一堆人,後面都是貴黨的委員。昨天後面沒有什麼人了啦,好不好?不是啦,真的真的,請你尊重,請你尊重啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11598.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11625.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
請你尊重,請你尊重啦不是,時間到了不是,不是吧時間到了,時間到了不是啦,所以你不要浪費沒有,後面那麼多個委員我們一定要堅持時間到了,請你回座請你回座請你回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11627.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11631.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
請你回座請你回座時間到沒有請你回座請你回座請你回座好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11640.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11641.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
本席宣布休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11682.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11691.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
因為今天發言的委員非常多,如果大家都這樣的話,沒有會議的秩序。 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11790.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11792.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11852.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11863.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
主席在這裡補充宣告我們休息到12點半請大家行政單位可以去用餐我們休息用餐到12點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
13579.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
13582.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條。 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
13798.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
13799.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
14028.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
14028.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
15419.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
15442.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
15453.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
15474.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
不,不用上集回顧啦上集回顧就要先幫我剛才說五分鐘,不然我會擔保要忘記一下阿剛剛沒有主席,剛剛你是互相喊休息欸阿我就傻傻的站在這裡,哇對不對我雖然有去偷吃便當,不過我基本上也有聽你的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
15571.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
15586.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
本席﹗今天如果蔡委員這樣,後面這麼多的委員,我其實是尊重後面還有五十幾位委員的發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
15590.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
15618.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我剛剛已經給蔡委員她時間到我沒有馬上站起來後來我看她沒有收我站起來她說給她收尾我就給她收尾收尾了一分半還沒辦法我又提醒她光提醒也提醒大概她應該又再多講了一分半所以最後我才一直沒辦法請她停止嘛所以我才喊休息了沒有沒有妳想妳都有效應這個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
15620.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
15635.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
15650.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
15673.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
有啦!像阿川講的啦!呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
15681.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
15704.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們現在繼續開會但是本席在這裡特別宣告我們接下來每一位外委員會的委員都是四分鐘針對剛剛蔡議員委員的情況因為現在才正式開會本席還是要說明剛剛蔡委員時間到本席沒有立刻站起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
15705.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
15708.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
審查委員蘇清泉等2審查委員蘇清泉等2審查委員蘇清泉等2審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
15725.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
15753.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我們希望這個例子不要...主席主席基本上吼事實上大家在發言的時候你也可以多次制止我啊啊多次制止我你有什麼表現啊我有多次我有我有我有多次制止啊啊你一隻在我消音啊啊你一隻在我消音你看大家的官媒都這樣運作的啊我有多次制止啊不然主席這樣一隻就人化卡啊我有多次制止我今天真的有多次制止你你也要給我講個什麼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
15755.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
15757.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
15758.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
15761.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
主席主席事實上我剛剛確實已經給你了一個議題,我們就是要跟他說說 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
15788.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
15795.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
15798.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
15804.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
請問民進黨的委員要不要繼續開會?如果要,我們就要尊重張祺凱委員。你們要繼續貪玩議事嗎?請問...所以麻煩請蔡易瑜委員離開發言台。 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
15823.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
15834.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
16045.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
16048.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
16203.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
16204.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
19201.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
19202.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
20562.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
20569.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
20618.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
20625.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好,我們繼續開會接下來請張綺凱委員發言請大家尊重張綺凱委員請大家注意會議的秩序好,謝謝,謝謝,我終於可以講話了 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
20655.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
20662.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
慾語請大家保持安靜。我們尊重張祺凱委員質詢的秩序。 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
20664.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
20678.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
20685.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
20698.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
可不可以請大家安靜安靜安靜的聽質詢好不好你們不要那麼吵啦好不好麻煩麻煩我們蔡易瑜幹事長啊啊司機長啊司機長司機長 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
20709.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
20716.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
20733.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
20743.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
20779.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
20785.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我們請大家注意會議的秩序好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
20789.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
20813.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
不影響不要七嘴八舌好不好好請大家坐好包括李坤城委員蔡易瑜委員郭國文委員請坐好請坐好好不好請坐好 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
20818.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
20828.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
20845.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
20854.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
二、審查委員張綺楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
20870.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
20887.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等11年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊� |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
20889.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
20891.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
報告主席張祺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
20923.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
20938.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
20942.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
20961.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
請尊重張琦委員我幫蔡議員收尾我幫蔡議員收尾不是發言的委員請請不要發出聲音我幫他收尾啦議議的題目是什麼我幫你收尾好來來來欸大小蘇秀親愛的那個選委會主委上台請你主委請你主委請你主委親愛的選委會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
20971.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
20984.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
請大家安靜我現在有四分鐘我先幫蔡議員稍微忍受一下你本來要問什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
20995.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
21004.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
21016.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
21044.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好好來來大家輕鬆一點不要那麼嚴肅好不好我今天台灣民眾黨是來幫國民黨也是幫民進黨的我要兩個大的主題第一個最近有大罷免潮還有什麼精準罷免快開始了我們等一下談一下看能不能幫國民黨不要那麼多人被罷免等一下我也幫蔡英宇幫吳秉瑞你們有好幾位民進黨的立法委員提供一個合法的選罷法的修正我們現在看看今天台灣民眾黨在說什麼好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
21045.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
21072.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
大評要不要引述 輕鬆一點 輕鬆一點 請坐好不好 請坐請坐好來 我先請教主委最近吶 有傳出來說有大罷免潮 或者所謂的精準罷免吼包括 台北市要罷免李彥秀台北市說要罷免李彥秀阿新北好像A&C也被列進去嘛吼台中還有三位這個年輕的廖偉祥他們站在中選會主委的立場跟專業 你怎麼看這個大罷免潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
21074.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
21092.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
在我們選務機關的立場上我們並不特別的去關心會不會發生罷免或者甚至於演變成所謂的大罷免潮因為這是朝野政黨之間的一個競逐或者是一個互動但是在選務機關的立場我們隨時做好各種選務的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
21102.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
21127.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
懷疑有罷免的案子出來的時候我們必須要能夠依法能夠順利的來完成整個這個選務的程序接下來我們來幫這個蔡英宇還有吳秉瑞很多民進黨立委爭取一個權益啦知不知在罷免案的時候出現很多啊無效的這個連署甚至出現大量死亡的這個已經往生者喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
21128.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
21149.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
人民已經過世了,還出現在聯署名單上面。蔡議員跟吳明璽的提案是這樣,他說最近這個罷免案出現超過一千份以上的罷免。他說這是有心人士假冒個人的資料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
21151.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
21162.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個對整個連署罷免案是非常不公平而且要處理的你怎麼看這樣的一個提案外界所提出來的這個現象所報導的相關的數據這個都是經過我們對於連署的這個名冊查對的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
21170.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
21174.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
21193.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
21211.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
被假冒在罷免案裡面被連署的不是只有往生者上千人更多的黑素是可能你跟我可能都被冒名了所以他們提了一個案子他們說以後在罷免案的時候要把你身份證上面的發照日期把它寫上去這是很老一個提案嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
21212.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
21227.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
對於這個所謂的假冒啦或死人連署啦或者是代簽的等等這種不應該發生的現象在我們的選務機制裡面是可以可以排除的很辛苦吧如果像蔡議員他們提的他剛剛在那邊等這麼久我幫他爭取權利嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
21232.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
21237.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
21251.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
21253.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
21267.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
21291.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
至少張祺凱支持蔡英明這個提案不要撤回去不要撤回去這個案子是好的另外台灣民政黨會提一個案子我們在為了避免有人假冒所以我們附上身份證影印本我們會嚴格的來進行查對那至於要附身份證的影印本這個有很多的缺點跟顧慮我想這一點委員也都相當的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
21293.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
21318.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
主席您站起來希望透過今天的質詢大罷免潮特別是那種政治性的報復不要出現第二個我們既然要修選罷法怎麼樣避免去連署罷免的人被假冒包括已經往生者連民進黨的立委都這樣講了我們要徹底去解決要嘛就加上蔡議員他們當初提的把身份證的流水號加進去要嘛就用民進黨的身份證原本謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
21324.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
21349.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
謝謝接下來請鄭天才委員請保持會議的秩序請博士發言的委員請尊重對尊重主席的委員各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
21351.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
21377.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
21380.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
21404.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
然後後來你們去相關的檢視之後選委會檢視之後然後很多已經死亡的還去連署有沒有這樣的數據有這樣子的事情那我們也有一些統計的資料好這樣的一個情況的發生是不是只有一次很多次這是事實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
21406.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
21432.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
沒有錯吧?是的。那這樣的一個選罷法的修正或是相關的機制你們有什麼樣提出?它是可以被發現可以被提出的所以我們有所謂的查對的這個制度這個查對的制度呢也不斷的在精進之中啊因此大家才會知道說哦原來是會被偽造的原來有死人來連署的 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
21433.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
21435.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
21444.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
21465.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
這個是不是必要的?他的利弊到底是怎麼樣?這就是一個抉擇。他的利弊,他最重要的一個缺點所在,就是增加了罷免人的提議人、連署人,增加他的麻煩,增加他的顧慮,影響到他罷免的連署的意願。 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
21466.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
21494.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這個就是對於一個罷免權的限制我們認為這個是非常需要審慎的對 有這樣的一個情勢發生所以就要修正好 我就舉這個公民投票法是不是就剛剛你說的就是要附這些相關的證件公民投票法是不是這樣公民投票公民投票沒有啊不是 要不要附什麼相關的證件 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
21495.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
21521.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
公民投票你要連署你要提案都必須要付相當關注的證件所以這個就是一開始也沒有這樣做後來修法所以我們在因為現在剛剛講的我不太想講惡意罷免這樣的用詞既然有這樣公民投票沒有付身份證營保我現在是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
21522.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
21528.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
因為有很多的機制需要去檢討然後相關罷免的這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
21530.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
21552.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
有這樣的一個相關的情況不斷的發生然後呢因為過去啊大家會去尊重選舉的結果大家都會過去啊很多年以前所以我們的選辦法就不會去思考去修正那這段時間既然有產生這樣的一個相關很多的問題比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
21554.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
21575.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
21580.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
21600.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
一上任沒幾個月就開始連署所以這個機制都必須要去檢討所以我們現在就是去檢討這個機制這個依目前的機制是有三道防線可以來剔除這些虛偽的連署第一道就是我們人工的查對 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
21601.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
21602.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
二、審查互證機關互證系統的查對。第三、電子聯署 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
21619.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
21621.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
21644.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
21649.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
政院前委員改書面質詢楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
21667.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
21668.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
21684.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
21699.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公� |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
21707.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
21713.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
是增加的。我給你一個數字105年是84件到113年是107件它等於政府是27.38裁罰的你是105年是59件113年是增加13.56這個比例所以在這種情況之下可以說是以手機相關違規的案件躍升首位 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
21734.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
21736.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
首經違規要審所謂達到46件,佔113件裡頭的違規及107件中佔了幾乎快要一半,42.99,所以要怎麼樣讓民眾不去? |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
21752.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
21766.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
21780.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
21787.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
21803.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
21823.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
在現場在投開票所的前面一開始要驗你的身份證的時候我們就會告訴你這個手機是不可以帶進去的我們在這個投票所的門口也都會有很明顯的一個標示目前你所回答的都是你目前正在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
21823.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
21832.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
21853.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
21875.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
加強宣導所以回歸也就是在任何的事項如果預防的部分做得更完整你後續必須要加記的人力跟經費就可以減少就可以更精進更落實但是剛剛你有講一句話本席覺得很納悶你說如果在連署的時候加注身份證會助長詐騙你這個等號怎麼等號 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
21879.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
21903.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
因為現在這個詐騙集團他們不斷的推陳促新那我們也知道有很多詐騙集團他們是以取得一般民眾的個人資料作為很重要的一個手段你這句話會讓人家嚇一跳主管機關單位應該是要怎麼去防範要怎麼樣讓他們有造假 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
21904.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
21908.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
21926.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
21927.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
審查委員林俊憲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
21961.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
21964.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
謝謝主席,本席邀請我們中選會李主委。好,請李主委。主委,2021年,台中的陳柏惟委員被罷免。 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
21981.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22002.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這同時國民黨的主席朱立倫說這是民主的勝利你要知道陳柏惟被罷免成功但是贊成罷免的票也沒有大於他當選的票那現在國民黨又把這個改掉國民黨說罷免同意票如果大於當選票只有這少數民主國民黨還在扮 不一樣的標準了 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22006.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22024.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我們的立委同仁,我們現在可以在這裡開會是因為我們當選立法委員。我們依法當選,我們是依照選拳罷法,公職人員選舉罷免法。那這個法律不是只有選舉法,它還包含罷免法。這是我們跟選民的約束。我們領記四檔,我們按照這樣來動算。我們選民包括你,按照現在這個法律來幫我們罷免。 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22030.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
22051.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
那現在我們任期剛開始,我們就把這個罷免部分改掉,其實我們違背跟選民的約定,這定義我們自肥啦,他現在這樣定義不可能有罷免的啦,高薪文件會很困難的啦,這都是黃國昌反對的,總之他又遭遇了。當年啦,上一屆立委國民黨就是有提案要用身份證,黃國昌就在那裡哭了,在那裡哭了,說這樣不行啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
22055.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
22066.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
22075.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
22087.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
22097.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22107.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
政黨或政治人物對自己﹐對選民負責不能一開始先自罪﹐把這個罷免法律給改掉﹐這是獨立我們自己﹐這我要看完﹐對不對﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22112.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22135.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那接下來聽說是因為國民黨台中的立委怕被罷免了,我不曉得是不是這樣子啦,常常國民黨台中的黨民,國民黨台中的立委我們盲腦開啦,對不對,去被告罷,靠你靠有什麼好怕的,你現在把他蓋成這樣,根本就是完全要杜絕以後,人民不可能有任何一個罷免要成功啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22137.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22146.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22167.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22182.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
所以現在只要動到這個選報法第一個我們立委在任期中我們依照這個選舉罷免法宣誓就職立委我們不可以大家發現在這個時候我們的任期還未到你敢改掉喔?對你啦你這樣一改很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22186.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22205.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
以後,如果按照過去的經驗、過去的投票率、過去的投票數,不可能有任何罷免案會通過。我們再提一個,什麼一年內,不能有罷免提案及連署,這邊要執行的。一年內不得有連署,那你怎麼去認定?你一年內什麼樣的連署以後認為有效以後認為沒有效? |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22214.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22233.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
也沒有很明晰的一個施行細則啦 我覺得這個法律很丑陋的啦所以我是覺得說 我們政府對自己要有證 第三名要有證我們不可以在這個時候 把人民的罷免權給沒收掉我們不會透過這個法律 自賠我們自己啦好 謝謝主委好 謝謝委員好 謝謝 接下來請張雅琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22245.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22246.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22256.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22276.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
主委好,我想延續剛剛林俊憲委員講的,就是說其實照這樣子的提案啊,罷免票要超過被罷免者的當選票數的話,您認為是不是非常難,因為依據投票率來講嘛,這樣子是不是非常難有任何人民可以實施真正所謂的罷免權?是。您的看法也是?它的難度是相當高的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22276.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22279.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22298.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22321.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
大法官釋字第499號的議旨一法委員應該遵守利益迴避原則當涉及自身利益的時候應該要研製下一屆才能夠適用而且呢在理由書裡面也明確的記載利益迴避乃是任何公職人員行使職權均應遵守之原則所以我想請教主委您認為現在國民黨的修法加了這個同意數要超過被罷免人數的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22322.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22323.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
被罷免人當選票數的時候是否已經違反了職權應遵守的利益迴避原則? |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22329.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22352.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我想這不只是所謂的迴避的問題其實它很重要的一點就是一個法制的問題這個選舉罷免的權利它的法制的規定應該要穩定不要因為一時之間的政黨之間的對立或者政治環境的一個波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22353.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22360.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22369.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22375.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22392.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22419.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
是因為你們所作所為召喚了我們的民眾要主動出來捍衛這個體制所以才行使了這個罷免同時呢現在的國民黨在預算會期裡面也不省我們國家的預算還在做這些所謂的政治鬥爭來操弄這些法案根本就是政治擺第一啦民生法案最後把百姓丟一邊才會造成今天民眾必須來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22421.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22425.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22441.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22470.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
在2004年以來其實我們是有一條規定就是說我們區域立委直轄實驗室首長的選舉結果得票數最高與次高的候選人得票差距以及原住民立法委員選舉結果得票第三高和第四高的得票數差距有效票數千分之三以內時次高或得票數第四高之候選人得於投票日後七天內提出驗票但我想請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22472.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22492.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
從2004年以來,我們因為差距在有效票數千分之三以內提起的重新驗票有六次,有哪一次結果翻盤嗎?沒有翻盤的。對,從來沒有翻盤過。所以說如果今天我們將這個得票數差距在從千分之三修正為千分之十的時候,我覺得這就要問國民黨一個問題耶。 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22494.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22518.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
如果你有去現場監票的時候你就會知道其實各黨各派都會派人去現場監票而且呢今天只要有任何異議的話都會可以提出現場可以來提出暫停來重新來審視這個的票的結果那我只要再30秒就可以結束了好抱歉稍微再給我30秒今天國民黨今天如果我們要把它拉扯到千分之十的時候我們要多少公務人員在現場陪你們玩這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22519.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22520.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
二、審查委員林思敏書記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22557.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22567.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
主委好所以我想今天現在這個狀況是我們很樂見的就是大家的理性討論對於選罷法的修正到底它的合理性 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22569.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22591.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
在哪裡?現行的罷免制度是否公平合理?我想今天就藉由這個機會來跟主委好好地來做討論。我想我們在2016年修法以後公職人員的罷免門檻從這個降為同意票數達原選區票數人數總四分之一以上就通過門檻就是以25%作為我們的一個罷免的一個門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
22597.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
22624.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
這樣一個低門檻的設計除了會變相的鼓動我們的罷免讓敗選的一方非常容易的操作罷免成為選舉的延長賽不利我們民主的發展且會耗費國家社會的資源修法後的罷免制度是不是會造成說罷免比當選容易的騎行制度?主委請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
22625.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
22641.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
今天我們的案子討論的是要罷免的得票數必須要高於當選的得票數那並不是有關於罷免的門檻的討論罷免的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
22644.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
22668.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
四分之一到底是不是太高或者太低其實參考世界各國的這個立法例會有不同的看法這是另外一個議題但是針對罷免票要多於當選票一票這點我們認為是不宜做這樣子的修改我尊重你的回答其實我是想聽聽你看你對於我剛才那個問題您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
22669.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
22685.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
但世界各國也很多國家先進國家根本沒有罷免制度我們尊重人民選出來的代議士民意代表如果他真的非常不適任也讓他有四年的時間去做完我們下一任再把他淘汰 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
22687.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
22711.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
那麼我想我們來看看總統的罷免總統的罷免要經過立法院同意後提出然後經過我們中華民國自由地區的選舉人總額過半數的投票有效票數要過半數罷免才算通過但是我們看立委的罷免則是罷免同意票達原選區總額的四分之一就可以通過就我們剛才講的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
22713.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
22717.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
賴清泉總統當選投票率當選票數只有40%的支持度,他就當選了總統。但是要罷免總統卻要高達50%的支持才能夠通過。假設我們以60%的支持度當選立委, |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
22736.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
22746.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
他卻只要25%的支持就能罷免。所以兩者罷免的設計上是否失衡?主委你的看法? |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
22748.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
22767.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
有關於總統罷免的部分除了剛剛委員所提到的就是必須要二分之一在二分之一之外還必須要是立法院通過了所以他不只是門檻高他的過程程序也更加的嚴謹因為知識體大 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
22769.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
22780.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
22793.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
22800.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
22821.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
22823.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
主席黃秀芳委員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
22855.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
22878.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
主委好主委我剛聽了幾位委員有特別提到就是說這個罷免可能25%就可以罷免那其實我知道所有的選民所有的民眾如果是你這個選區選出來的民意代表你只要好好的服務地方或者是你是一個立法委員你認真在國會好好的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
22881.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
22884.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
22897.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
22899.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
民意代表也許在地方做得太超過,或在議會或國會做得讓地方選民、民眾覺得非常不適任,才會提出罷免。 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
22914.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
22918.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
大法官四字499提到利益迴避原則立法委員增加自己報酬或待遇規定都要有利益迴避原則今天修公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
22940.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
22945.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
22956.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
22970.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
關於大法官會議的解釋我們表示尊重但是就這兩個選罷法的修正案最重要的立場是我們基本上認為是不宜來修正的 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
22970.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
22998.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
是,所以其實就是讓我們的民眾可以有這個參政權選出代議士不論是在這個國會在議會其實你就是要這個替人民來發聲那當這個代議士已經沒有辦法好好的替民眾來發聲那以至於民眾發起這樣的一個罷免這樣的一個活動或這樣的一個權利我覺得說應該是要去保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
22999.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23020.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
其實這個問題之所以會今天演變成是立法院的一個修法的議案並不是因為對制度本身的一個檢討所提出來的而是因應所謂的罷免草所以這種一時的這種政治現象要來動搖我們的法治基礎我認為不宜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23021.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23044.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
是,其實在從今年2月1號這個新的第11屆的立法委員就職到現在這個也快一年的時間了那其實我相信很多地方的民眾會覺得這一屆的國會到現在是非常大家會覺得說好像每一天都是這樣吵吵鬧鬧那原本所立的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23047.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23073.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
國民黨民眾黨加起來是多數推翻原本所立的法。原本立的法已經可以好好的去執行了。他又要去立一個可能未來是會變成一個鳥籠的一個罷免。所以在這邊我們也希望這個國民黨跟民眾黨所有民眾選你出來當民意代表你在國會應該是要好好的替人民來發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23075.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23094.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
讓這個立法院可以好好來運作而不是國會擴權那也不是搶錢又搶權所以我們在這邊是不是也可以再請教我們的這個主委就是未來如果說罷免又要提供這個身份證這個身份證件的話其實很多民眾會很擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23096.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23117.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
因為現在的詐騙確實是非常的猖獗那如果一旦還要要求提供這個身份證件的話其實會讓民眾如果即使有這個罷免的話他也會擔心要把這個身份證件交出去所以我不知道說這個主委你怎麼認為那是會影響到人民的這個意願參與的意願謝謝接下來請許智傑委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23125.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23145.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23156.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23159.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
主席大家好,我們請主委。好,請立主委。主委好,我想罷免是人民的權利,這個主委應該都相當的能夠接受。那現在其實在鳳山我們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23178.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23184.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23199.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23219.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
審法法修改那因為這一屆的立委都是屬於自己修改然後自己適用這樣子適合嗎?是不是應該要延到下一屆就這一屆的法我們如果經這一次修法成功的話我們立委本身都是利害慣性人所以是不是應該要延到下一屆才適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23221.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23243.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
有關於利益迴避的問題這個司法院大法官已經有過解釋我們表示尊重但是就這個選罷法的修改的議題的部分基本上中選會是認為不宜在這個時候去更動對所以說這一次如果假設啦國民黨強行過關通過以後是不是應該下一屆才適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23244.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23264.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
這我們尊重大法官會議的解釋所以我想這個部分請主委跟大法官我想這個是應該是一個公平公正的一個開放的一個場合的會議的法案那如果真的已經通過以後我希望說我們立法院大家可以一致下一次才適用我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23266.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23284.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
歷害關係人本來就應該迴避不應該就自己這一屆然後去修改然後這一屆就試用所以這個不恰當所以我想希望說大家可以認同那再就是說國民黨兩個版本一個就是提出身份證影音本這個我們也很多同事都問過了我們也希望說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23285.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23312.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
審訊人員本人民不太喜歡把它交出交給陌生人或是在連署這個把交出來其實真的是有洩漏個資的問題啦所以希望國民黨可以好好的思考很多人民他不願意那你這樣子不願意提出這個法基本上他就會提高這個罷免的門檻然後就變成鳥籠的罷免所以這個部分我希望說大家可以三思再來就是國民黨提出另外一個版本就是罷免門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23315.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23338.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
高於當選票,其實這個坦白講真的是不合理啦,因為每一次的選舉狀況都不一樣。所以呢,國民黨想要提高門檻坦白講我並不是很反對,但是呢提高門檻要有一個限度啦,其實在當時黃捷還有陳柏惟還有王浩宇都被,黃捷沒有罷免成功,那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23341.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23347.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
陳柏惟跟王浩宇被罷免成功的時候那個時候其實我也曾經提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23351.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23372.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
三分之一提高罷免門檻我們並不是說100%反對但是你要恰當要適當而不是高到說又變成一個鳥籠的罷免所以我想這個部分國民黨要修改的時候也可以思考一下所以我嚴重的聲明請國民黨不要踐踏民主環球運動不要設鳥籠公投前面這幾個罷免參考名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23374.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23378.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23393.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23411.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
總而言之我們希望說這一次的罷免下一屆才適用那這一次的國民黨訂的門檻可以考慮延就是把它降低門檻不要故意這樣子變成鳥籠公投這是我的訴求希望指揮可以幫忙一起維護我們選民罷免的權利謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23420.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
23431.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
二、審查委員陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
23457.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
23459.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
謝主席 先請內政部長好 請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
23470.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
23476.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
委員好部長好部長內政部近日有預告村里長慰勞金之急以及這個表揚辦法草案就是將發給任滿六屆而且年滿65歲的這個村里長有30萬的慰問金 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
23485.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
23505.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
但是本席稍微了解過似乎內政部之前是針對這個預算的編任的部分是跟縣市政府地方政府做溝通取得共識但是地方的里長都反映說也建議本席一定要跟內政部反映說你們內政部要跟全國的村里長來溝通座談針對這個借數以及這個未落金的這個金額這個合理性來做討論並且要聽取全國村里長的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
23514.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
23534.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
所以這邊本席希望說內政部這邊可以考量是不是跟全國的村里長來進行溝通好謝謝委員的提醒我們也有委員有提到說有全國村里長的聯誼會他們要來找我那另外一個就是說我們所謂的預告是預告完成但是還沒公告那表示說還要再收集意見對還是有溝通的這個空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
23536.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
23548.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
對,很多委員有提到不同的看法跟說法那我們根據委員的意見因為這個事關村里長這個權益啦是希望說能夠廣納所有大家的意見然後之後才做定案沒問題謝謝部長謝謝那請主委好,請李主委好,請部長回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
23560.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
23567.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
委員好主委好主委請問您認為高罷免門檻已經有凝聚社會共識了嗎高罷免門檻我現在不知道它的所謂高是高到什麼樣的程度但是至少現在的這個標準是已經有相當的基礎主委您認為說將同意票數需要超過被罷免人當選票數這樣子會不會影響人民的這個罷免權 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
23588.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
23591.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
主委您認為本屆修法本屆就適用有沒有自肥的疑慮? |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
23605.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
23609.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
23625.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
23641.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
藍白兩黨在立法院無止盡的擴權的時候人民卻沒有辦法來限縮這些自肥立委的權力那本席本身自己也是立委我要說明的是說提高罷免門檻就是缺乏全民共識用強度關山的方式來處理就是傷害民主自由接下來我想請教主委請問在大選的這個投票率跟罷免的投票率會相同嗎?通常這個選舉的投票率會高一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
23654.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
23677.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
主委您認為說在罷免的投票中人民所面對的心理壓力跟成本是不是跟大選不相同?心理壓力跟成本這個我現在不大了解其實主委您剛好提到其實大選的投票率平均大概是七成但是罷免的投票率平均是四成再來在我們台灣傳統這個選舉氛圍之下其實要人民站出來罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
23681.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
23684.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
23697.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
23709.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
國民黨不要說少數否決多數其實討論的基礎根本就不同我們不能用這樣子的言論來欺騙人民民眾的眼睛很雪亮那民眾的理智也會判斷選舉其實可以視為一種帝爵契約的概念那當人民對於選舉出來的民選公職表現不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
23715.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
23737.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
王認為說他自身的這個利益權益有受到衝突的時候就會利用罷免來做一個折衷挽回的方式這是憲法賦予人民的權利所以提高罷免門檻這件事情本來就不可以作為政治喊價是應該經過詳細的規劃跟充分的討論的主委您認為呢?是的謝謝好謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝委員好謝謝請林怡瑾委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
23755.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
23776.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
23784.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
23806.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
主席,謝謝。我會議詢問,不好意思,議員稍後一下。因為今天……兩分鐘好不好?兩分鐘。我們樓上司法法制的會議詢問至少是三分鐘。所以我第一個覺得我要會議詢問的是,連會議詢問的時間在內政委員會都比別人短。連重要的議案討論的時間,今天本委員會只有五分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
23807.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
23831.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
非委員會只有四分鐘,這麼短的時間,怎麼樣,好,六跟四,不管六分鐘跟四分鐘都是沒有辦法好好實質討論任何攸關人民權利的民主議案的。那我現在我就跟主席報告,我在這裡會議許問,在場的有兩位委員坐在地上,我們現場都還有座位啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
23833.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
23859.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這就是我請主席要維持會議的秩序我站在這裡他們四個眼睛這樣朝著我看有很大的壓力啊所以請主席是不是可以制止一下是不是可以制止一下維持一下會議的秩序而且我相信徐委員是這麼資深的委員不要干擾我的會議許願主席他干擾我的時間我要再增加時間哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
23860.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
23887.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
他干擾我的發言我還要再增加時間喔!他增加我的他干擾我的時間他干擾我的時間我要增加時間喔主席!會議詢問也是非常重要本席有本席的權利徐政委是非常資深的委員我相信他主持議事一定很有經驗不需要在場有這種糾察隊在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
23890.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
23902.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
在這裡管制然後盯著別的委員發言就對於每一位發言委員都是非常很大的壓力嘛這彼此尊重嘛而且我要再次的要求內政委員會選罷法攸關原名的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
23906.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
23923.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我們今天樓上司法在討論年改法案攸關世代正義吳宗憲交委給我們本委員的時間至少是八分鐘因為剛剛徐曉新干擾我的發言我爭取還要再多發言他干擾我超過一分鐘主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
23924.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
23945.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
所以說重要的攸關國家重要的事項只給我為委員會我現在在準備我等一下質詢我都不知道四分鐘我開場白就沒有了所以要爭取這關我的事啊徐曉新委員你不重視你的發言我重視我能夠發言的每一次機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
23947.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
23974.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
所以主席是不是我要求我們在場有很多內政委員我希望能夠要求為我們對於這個議案長期以來沒有機會參與發言的委員有更長的時間來發來進行發言的一個完整性好嗎這是我的會議詢問那請主席可以做財事嗎這是我的會議詢問那是不是主席可以做財事呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
23975.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
23994.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
是否主席可以做裁示我正要講好不好我在這等候您的裁示今天本席已經在早上說明了當然你們可能在別的委員會都沒有聽到我可以再說明一次我們今天的這個會議質詢時間本委員會是5加1外委員會是4分鐘這在過去我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
24004.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
24014.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
第十一屆委員會也是有慣例的所以最重要就是我們看到今天的簽報要質詢的委員非常多所以我們要尊重每一個委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
24019.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
24032.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
尊重每一個委員的發言,所以這個部分我們已經宣告了,請您尊重,我也請您尊重,也請您能夠遵守立法院的議事程序。那剛剛您一直講,底下你們的委員也一直講,我想4分鐘是沒有辦法好好討論要沒收人民權利的議案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
24046.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
24053.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
24066.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
24079.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
謝謝主席歡迎詢問就是我剛剛到這個司法法制委員會我去詢問這個年金改革然後呢我是外委員會的他是給我四分鐘一樣跟內政一樣四分鐘但是呢我講完超過四分鐘之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
24081.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
24107.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
這個吳宗憲他是召委他就站起來但是他沒有消音耶他站起來因為他知道我講到一半他就是聽我講講講然後他就站在那邊他也沒有就是說李昆城你講完了你要下去了後面有很多人在排沒有他就聽我講完因為年金改革這個東西很重要就像我們今天討論這個選罷法也很重要啊也很關鍵啊所以才會有六十幾個人登記發言表示說大家都很重視很關心這個選罷法 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
24108.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
24108.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
24132.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
24140.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
24148.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
24168.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
所以我是希望說是不是我們這個內政委員會也能夠比照一下這個我們司法法治委員會因為你不論在討論這個年金的改革的相關的法案或是來討論這個選罷法相關的議題大家都很重視嘛所以才會有超過六十幾個人在登記但是你看我等一下輪到我 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
24169.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
24172.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
24191.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
24195.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
第二位會議詢問也是沒有搞清楚狀況,浪費我們的時間。我現在來回覆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
24208.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
24228.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
有講話的時候可以讓主席講話嗎?你不能對我做人身攻擊啊!我九點我就坐在這邊了啊!所以剛剛你四分鐘我們大家就有不同的意見了啊!你怎麼可以說我搞不清楚狀況?你不能對我做人身攻擊啊!對不對?好,那我現在說明。我說明好不好?來來來,我說明我說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
24232.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
24234.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
二、審查委員蔡毅與委員的質詢整個過程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
24251.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
24274.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
對,你去看嘛,你可以去看。我沒有,我也是蔡議員時間到,我讓他講一下,我才站起來。站起來,我站了兩三分鐘,而且我制止很多次。很多次,他還是繼續不甩主席,我才消音的。所以現在,所以現在如果,如果你們,不是, |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
24280.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
24304.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
所以他總共4分鐘他已經講了7分43秒所以在這種情形下如果民進黨團還有民進黨的委員們我們今天的開會你們硬是要不遵守立法院的議事規則以及所有發言委員的權利的話那你們今天只是要求多一些發言時間而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
24307.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
24319.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
所以你合理的爭取但我也我主席我也已經公告宣告了請你們遵守議事程序可以嗎?如果要繼續這樣那我們是不是要休息?是不是要休息你們要協商嗎?不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
24337.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
24346.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
所以我們請全國的民眾看一個議事程序。好,我們張昭偉請我休息,會議休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
24366.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
24373.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
24376.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
24404.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案� |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
24406.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
24408.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
25531.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
25551.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
阿咩啦?不是啦,剛才那講啊,講什麼幾分鐘幾分鐘,阿我這要有條啦,我拜託。喔,好在有人給我正確時間捏,阿不然齁,我先去給齁,我先去給阿姨齁,我先這樣,先吞下來,我先一定,很不敢這樣。好在有人給我公佈正確答案。來,主席。 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
25700.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
25701.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
26175.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
26188.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
好,我們繼續開會在開會一開始本席先在這邊做個說明第一個我相信在座所有的立法委員都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
26189.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
26218.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
每個委員會的開會的時間、質詢的時間這都是召委的職責跟權力所以我在早上就已經宣告了而且在早上民進黨的委員也已經提出異議我也說明了在立法院我們第11屆的第一會期第22次的會議是吳啟明召委主持的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
26220.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
26235.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
打詐的法案難道不是重要法案嗎?本性要在這邊說,其實每個委員會的討論的都是重要的法案。當然今天的選罷法我也不否認,非常重要。 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
26236.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
26260.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
打詐也很重要,但是那個時候是本委員會4加1,外委員會4分鐘。所以每個召委有他的考量,本席在早上也特別說明了,是因為知道也了解今天有很多委員希望發言,所以我們尊重也這個希望讓維持每個委員質詢的這個權利。 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
26263.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
26282.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
所以我們到了下午不可能再更改我們的這個質詢的時間這第一個那所以是不是要尊重剛剛你們在抗議說你們講話的時候底下有人講話實際上我為什麼沒有出面阻止因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
26283.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
26303.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
抗議的政黨委員,你們自己也常常這樣,我都尊重大家,我當主席我盡可能的尊重所有我們立法院的我們各位委員同事。那當然有一些比較先進的委員對有些議事規則不了解,本席也予以尊重。那我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
26304.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
26308.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
26321.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
26329.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
蔡易瑜委員會議詢問完我們就讓所有今天想質詢的所有委員我們讓他們能夠盡快的來質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
26338.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
26338.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
張宏祿召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
26362.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
26389.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
如果我們的協調大家不照規則,我們就繼續進行質詢了。請林一錦委員。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息。若說他們說話不算話,那我們繼續休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
26392.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
26411.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
民進黨的所有的委員不尊重你們內政委員會的張宏祿張宏祿召委新的我問個會議詢問一下本席沒有請你發言請你尊重一下本席沒有請你發言請你尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
26421.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
26437.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
對阿,不要欺負,你們也不要欺負新晉的委員。所以,我們就請全國民眾看齁,這個民進黨的委員在這個開會的時候要進行這樣的一個舉行。張宏祿召委,張宏祿召委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
26450.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
26468.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
現在的程序剛剛協調好的如果剛剛協調好的不算數那我們就我們就繼續休息協商繼續協調我聽你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
26485.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
26502.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
26508.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
26518.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
所以所以現在現在民進黨完全不按照我們協商的結果那我們繼續繼續休息協調好協商好期休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
26775.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
26776.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
27835.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
27837.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
28844.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
28845.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
審查委員楊曜等12年度中央政府總預算案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
29394.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
29395.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
29495.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
29498.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
30056.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
30078.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
好,我們現在繼續開會本席在這邊要特別的說明這個選罷法的這個排案在這個今天之前已經排過三次會議三次會議都被民進黨呢這個霸占主席台沒有辦法開會那今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
30079.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
30092.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
第四次排案,我們終於可以開會。但是呢,很遺憾的,我們今天一整天的會議過程呢,民進黨不斷地用程序發言、會議詢問來造成冗長的發言,早上也有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
30100.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
30126.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
所以最重要的就是下午的會議詢問其實早上都已經反應過了那所以這樣子變相的癱瘓意識這不是大家樂見的所以本席在這裡希望我們現在就是好好的讓有登記發言的委員來質詢我們這個停止所有的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
30130.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
30150.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
30167.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
30183.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
請大家尊重這個質詢的委員,請林一景委員。好,謝謝主席。請林一景委員。林一景委員。好,謝謝主席。好,請稍長計時。請李主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
30197.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
30197.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
有請李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
30213.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
30240.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
我想這一屆國民黨跟民眾黨藍白聯手造成最大的民主危機不只把自己立委的權力擴大還向人民盜竊原有的權力全台灣人民都知道罷免權是憲法賦予人民的基本參政權如果沒有經過充分的討論就要來修法剝奪限制民權的行使這是樂觀不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
30241.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
30264.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
那當然今天有這樣的詢答我們也期待還有充分的公聽來對於選罷法要修法有更充分的討論那我想這個今天要提到的是說從國眾兩黨從整肅議席的國會擴權二法到今天的取消人民的罷免權這個脈絡一脈相承其實簡單可是又暴力那兩白兩黨因為民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
30270.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
30289.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
二、成為國會的多數可是卻反過頭要威脅台灣人引以為傲的民主體制來威脅他取消罷免所以我想大家不要看表面上國民黨好像就是在推動提高罷免門檻實際上我看今天早上的發言袖手旁觀的民眾黨也是閹割憲法賦權剝奪人民參政權的幫助犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
30300.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
30304.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
我當然很好奇的是說到底是怎麼樣的一群人一天到晚在害怕罷免那連謝國良這樣的縣市長施政滿意度調查全國排名倒數第二名的在現行制度下都可以沒被罷免掉那所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
30318.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
30342.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
其實現行的罷免已經非常的周延了那實在很遺憾那我們一次又一次把這個國家資源耗費在這種所謂讓學者專家或者整體社會都還沒有構思的這種政治性的法案所以我今天即便這樣的詢答還是對這樣子的修法感到非常的遺憾那我想藍白聯手搞出來這個國會擴權二法這種拼裝車才在憲法法庭被判為違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
30348.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
30370.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
現在又要用另一個角度來擴大自己的權利。我想要求人民如果要想罷免,就要提供身份證、銀本。要求人民如果想罷免,同意罷免票數,就必須高於當選票數。這種提高罷免門檻的雙管齊下,其實真的就是沒收了人民的罷免權。我想現在國民黨, |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
30374.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
30396.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
同意罷免票數要高於當選票數所以我想要請教是說當初選舉進行投票的那群人和罷免投票的那群人誰能保證是同一群人那從選舉投票到罷免投票至少要經過一年半的時間那這一年半的時間人事物難道不會有變化嗎那至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
30397.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
30411.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
局局跟罷免那投票的目的本質性質其實完全不同而且通常全國性的這個選舉的投票率也高於罷免案的投票率所以如果再一次用金融市長謝國良來講當時2022金融市長選舉的投票率是60.16% |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
30417.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
30432.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
罷免謝國良的投票率也只有50.44%差了10%左右這兩種基礎完全不同的數字硬要擺在一起混為一談作為罷免是否通過的依據我還想請教朱偉思你認為這樣的依據是合理的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
30433.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
30458.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
這也是中選會一直做的說明也就是說在投票的時候選舉投票的時候他跟在罷免投票的時候時空環境已經有所改變民意是流動的罷免就是要再一次的來審視再一次來做確認所以不應該用舊的民意要來框住新的民意這樣子是說不過去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
30459.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
30469.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
主委,期待在凝聚社會共識,我們再來審議這個法案,謝謝。好,謝謝林益錦委員。接下來請林淑芬委員。好,謝謝。我們今天要討論這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
30486.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
30509.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
國民黨委員所提的有效同意票數需要超過被罷免人數當選的得票數才算通過的內容就藉由金明聯副秘書長的說法是這樣子說的就是說這個提案中國國民黨就正式向台灣人民宣告從此以後台灣人就沒有罷免的可能了 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
30509.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
30525.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我們把近年三期有關立法委員被罷免的數據調出來向大家報告說明從數據上我們明顯的可以看到罷免時的投票率跟選舉時的投票率大相徑庭兩者是不一樣的母數這個邏輯很好理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
30528.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
30530.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
因為投票、選舉是全國一起來的競選活動,多方的候選人一起來表達訴求,然後多方的動員、多方的資源都投入,所以投票率自然會很高。但是罷免選舉、罷免投票往往只有發起方在動員, |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
30548.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
30572.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
一方動員的結果當然是投票率相對的比較低所以這個金銘典的副秘書長繼續說我們可以看得到2016年新北市第二選區黃國昌當選的時候投票率63%但是罷免的時候投票率只有27%過去投票率大概都可以在六成以上甚至達到八成比如說2020或2024年的選舉台中市第二選區、台北市第五選區 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
30577.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
30602.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
這個都是2020年的數據兩個選區都將近有八成的選舉的時候有八成的投票率但是後來被這個提出罷免時的投票率最多最多就是五成最緊繃就是五成所以這是兩個完全不同計算基礎的母數你要來比較同意票數要大於原本的被當選的票數這是完全不可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
30602.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
30603.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
30620.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
30633.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
不優先的審查復國利民的民生法案： 把政治性的法案排在第一位：強行通過了違憲的擴權法案：而現在為了保護立法委員自己的權位避免被罷免急著要修選罷法提高罷免的難度我們剛才講的讓罷免變成不可能可是我們覺得在野黨你提這個法案的時候你要先回頭想一想自己為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
30646.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
30659.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
需要這麼做不就是因為你們所修的提案的法律或是你們在立法院的作為如果真的是跟人民跟真正的民意站在一起還需要怕被罷免嗎?你們這樣子不顧民生只想擴權政治鬥爭才會害怕被罷免代表站在民意的對立面才會害怕被罷免嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
30670.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
30676.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
30693.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
30706.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
當時是民進黨執政2019年行政院為了防度造假連署當時也曾經提議要修正公投法連署的時候要附身份證影本 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
30708.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
30722.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
當時張宏祿、趙薇在排審的時候國民黨的立委總召江啟臣帶領凌晨五點一樣破窗進入會議室霸占主席台在會議室門鎖 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
30723.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
30742.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
也一樣灌入三秒焦等方式強力杯葛而當時國民黨的主席江啟臣現在的立法院副院長當時批民進黨所提的修法案是侵害隱私提高聯署難度江啟臣國民黨的訴求說鐵籠公投限縮公民權開民主倒車而當時呢民進黨雖然未有國會多數面對外界的反彈沒有通過公 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
30753.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
30765.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
30785.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
30788.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
30793.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
30822.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
避免造假的連署負身份證銀本為什麼只修選罷法而沒有修到公投法呢?所以今天在這裡我們講說光是利益迴避的這個原則即便你們要修法也應該是從下一屆再實施沒有人說怕自己被罷免現在馬上修法這一屆就馬上適用大家都知道大法官釋字499號說這個是明顯的沒有利益迴避這是自肥法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
30824.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
30827.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
賴慧媛議員賴慧媛議員賴慧媛議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
30858.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
30877.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
主委我想從早上到現在我們探討了很多在提案修選罷法的各種每個委員的一個條法裡頭那特別我拿出徐以珍委員等39人在5月他提的一個修改的一個選罷法 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
30881.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
30907.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
維滿一年不得罷免、罷免同意人數如果大於當選的票數。在這個草案裡沒有實施的日期,是不是在沒有實施的日期裡,我相信很多委員都跟你一起共同探討過,如果像這樣子主委,沒有註明施行的日期,會不會違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
30908.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
30920.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
大法官他的一個499號的一個解釋,解釋中禁止立法,就是立法者自毀,那這一個你可以怎麼樣的做一個說明? |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
30921.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
30941.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
如果認為這樣的修法是有問題的不應該把這個修法你修過然後把問題留到下一屆了所以我們的立場是基本上認為所謂的利益迴避這是另外一個問題我們不予置評 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
30942.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
30943.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
30955.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
30973.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
主委那這個有沒有自毀的一個嫌疑呢那我就是從這個這一屆開始在你就是站在這個華麗的一個角度上來講吧報告委員這點我就沒有評論我著重的這個重點是在於它修法是不適當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
30975.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
30994.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
對,所以這個你也認為就是說修法的一個不適當。好,那主委我想就是說再跟你共同的一個探討從1994年到2016年期間幾乎沒有任何大型的一個罷免案。那這個通過罷免的門檻就是因為我們在1994年修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
30998.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
31002.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
31024.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
31037.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
1994年韓國瑜、洪秀柱等五案通過第二階段連署成案。1994年10月份修法限制罷免不得綁選舉。1994年11月27日五案精英位投票人數未過半,失敗。 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
31047.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
31062.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
那現在2024年國民黨又玩了一次又重來那主委你認為就是今天國民黨的修法的版本假設通過了以後是不是就是在沒收人民的罷免權 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
31063.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
31086.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
對於人民罷免權是一種限制在既有的條件規定之外另外加上的這個限制我們認為站在憲法保障公民參政權的立場上這個是要非常非常的慎重主委如果這個選罷法就是沒說人民的一個罷免權這個有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
31090.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
31114.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
我不方便去評論是否違憲的問題至於修法到底適不適當我們站在法律適用機關的立場上我們必須有責任來跟委員會做說明所以主委顯然你是一個比較保守你這個說法會偏向於比較保守好謝謝主席也謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝賴會員委員接下來請王逸川委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
31121.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
31133.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
在王委員質詢前﹗先給你講﹗先給你講﹗先給你講﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
31152.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
31164.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
主席今天在做這個選報要罷免的這個李主委來請我請教一下今天如果要罷免一個人像我今天想要擺一張來罷免葉元智就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
31170.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
31173.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
31195.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
31200.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
31215.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
31217.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
第一階段成案喔,第一階段成案。啊,之後,他就放了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
31243.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
31247.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
31261.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
31280.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
這也是我們擔心的啦,因為現在政府對這個詐騙集團的這個宣導是非常廣泛的一般老百姓都深入腦海裡面,所以說對個人資料的這個保護呢,大家都很在意所以喔,我要講,所以這到時候喔,這白蘭的喔,他們可能就會衝一招 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
31283.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
31286.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
31302.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
31316.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
我現在回答的這個狀況是就一般的法制一般的法制面至於是不是特定的特定的這個人選這個我是沒有辦法評論我再問你一個問題現在二零二六官司長選舉中個人可以選官長 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
31325.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
31343.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
審計候選人資格的審查,只要他符合我們選罷法的要件的話,包括他必須要是10年以上,有據所示。阿10年以上,中國人啊?中國人?可以算嗎?他沒有中國國籍喔!他沒有中國國籍喔!他沒有放棄喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
31350.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
31350.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
31364.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
31369.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
31380.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
31393.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
有牽涉到這個國籍法的部分這不在我們的管轄範圍之內所以我在說的是說好選人的條件好選人的條件我們審查只要他如果是中華民國的國民你說中國人中國人在台灣已經有經過十年了涉及經過十年了不是啦他就沒放棄中國籍啦注意他沒放棄啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
31405.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
31407.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
31422.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
31426.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
31447.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
31448.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
31476.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
31491.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
31509.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
31509.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
31522.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
31537.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
主委午安,辛苦了一整天下午安,大家辛苦本期在這邊首先也要讓全國的民眾知道就是說中華民國的憲法就是有明文的規定人民就是有選舉罷免、創制及覆決之權罷免權是憲法明定的參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
31543.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
31545.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
31557.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
31559.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
在過去進行罷免的連署階段所設立的門檻是非常高,也被百姓稱為鳥籠罷免。 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
31575.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
31580.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
31599.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
31616.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
雙重的二分之一的一個規定就是這個投票數要超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免的票數要超過有效票數二分之一就是我們所稱的雙二一的這樣的一個制度把它就是修正為同意票數超過選舉人數25%還有同意票超過不同意票這個罷免案就成立嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
31624.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
31627.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
31641.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
31664.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
這個我就沒有辦法做揣測只要他是符合條件他有權利來行事我們知道我們是民主的國家我們就是用民主的選舉的制度選出民意代表就是從中央一直到地方各級的民意代表那民意代表的職責是做什麼呢就是所謂的代議士就是替民眾替百姓來表達這個民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
31666.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
31674.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
31693.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
31717.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
所以如果說被人民選出來的民意代表他沒有違背民意他的言行操守不要太離譜那都是能夠符合民眾的期待的話你想民眾會這樣子無緣無故提出罷免案嗎我想百姓也沒說這樣吃飽贏贏沒事情就是隨便去搞一個罷免案吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
31719.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
31721.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
因為我們經過第一階段第二階段都有這樣子的一個連署的一個門檻也不是那麼容易的嘛對不對所以今天國民黨他們要提出說要這個同意罷免的人數要高於就是他的當選的一個票數這樣子的一個門檻實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的一個門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
31742.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
31750.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
當年陳柏惟被罷免時,同意票數高於不同意票數,同意票數低於當選票數,朱立倫說這是民主的勝利。 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
31761.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
31778.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
國民黨的主席喊說這是民主的勝利那今天國民黨再來提出說罷免案的成立要這個同意票數一定要高於他的當選票數這不是在打他們主席的臉嗎所以我希望我們的國民黨還有民眾黨的立委我們還是好好的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
31782.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
31783.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
二、審查委員吳秉瑞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
31821.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
31845.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
主席麻煩請內政部劉部長好請劉部長吳元豪部長我想跟你請教本來我是有做這個選罷法這個修正的提案那後來我自動測案了我會測案的最主要原因就是因為我被國民黨污衊國民黨說我增加這個嚴肅的難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
31848.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
31863.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
我增加罷免的難度,因為我認為這是誣衊,所以我撤案。為什麼呢?因為我的提案是要求說要加上身份證的發證日期。 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
31865.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
31888.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
不是做身份證的引印本因為我們每一個人手上的身份證都有一個發證日期那這個發證日期在戶籍就是戶證訴所裡面對你這個身份證的發證都有一個登記過去無論是選罷的連署或是公投的連署都有很多所謂幽靈連署說得不像是西人也在連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
31889.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
31916.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
他那個案那麼多甚至高達幾萬人沒辦法核對也沒辦法把這些做假的人移送法辦所以如何讓連署是一個事實的連署這個在我認為是一個重要的課題因為就算我們要罷免我們要公投都是必須是真實有這麼多人要罷免要公投所以才提出嘛所以我當時的提案我就在想 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
31917.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
31944.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
最方便的方法就是像國民黨講的這樣就拿出身份證影印本來證明這個是他自己拿出來的啊可是我就考慮到拿出身份證影印本會增加很多的困難因為就剛剛前面委員質詢的現在的詐欺犯罪這麼多這些身份證上面有這麼多的個人個資如果你拿身份證影印本就一次都拿出來了但是每一個人都有身份證身份證上都有一個發證日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
31946.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
31957.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
發證日期護證機關都有登記那我請他加上一個這個身份證的發證日期作為這個連署核實是不是他本人連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
31958.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
31967.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
31986.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
31993.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
審判證的補發的時候護證機關裏面的審判證的發證日期就是補發後這個新的審判證的日期啦所以這查核有什麼困難那您聽我講完那你在聯署的時間跟譬如說聯署需要三個月、六個月的時間這三個月、六個月之間如果有審判證遺落的這個部分發生的時候假設日期不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
32008.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
32027.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
請問一下在幫忙檢核的地方的選務機關要不要確認說你這個是是還是不是?那你就要再回去請教一下如果是這樣他安理他的數量也是非常的少啊你有沒有算過多少比例的人在三個月內丟失身分證然後讓他普發完全了解你的意思但是就變成要刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
32029.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
32035.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
32055.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
32065.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
我這個明明就是為了減核的需要沒有再增加連署的困難你跟國民黨一樣講我是增加連署的困難那你們跟他的行洩一氣嗎對於這樣子的回答你們還寫在那個報告裡面還向記者發表謝謝好 謝謝請王正旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
32093.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
32095.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
謝謝主席 可不可以請李主委請李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
32103.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
32122.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
委員好主委你好你好我今天來請教這個問題就是說要守護我們民眾的罷免權利是憲法第十七條規定就是人民有選舉罷免創制護絕的權利我知道你是跟我的大學同學郭六洋醫師嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
32124.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
32146.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
32154.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
32162.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
32183.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
32208.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
我們也知道說在根據這個選辦法第13條的規定目前在這個過程裡面往往中央跟地方進行這些處理的時候都會有一不一致的地方那不一致包括這個連署合格的條件連署書的這個查類方式都會有不同的這個可能性這部分包括主委你不知道有什麼看法嗎?要不要讓他精進讓他避免這樣的問題產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
32209.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
32228.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
好 謝謝王委員的指教 的確在最近某一個罷免案的個案裡面有發生類似的情形就是說中央跟地方針對這個連署人名冊的查對大家的看法有一點出入 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
32229.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
32248.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
有出入也沒有關係,因為根據相關法令的規定,縣市長的選舉罷免都是屬於中央選委會主管的事項。中央選委會主管,但是它只會監督地方選委會來執行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
32251.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
32278.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
所以如果有見解不一樣的地方大家可以透過溝通協調或者是上級的行政機關本於行政指導的立場可以達到一致的見解但是我們也為了讓所有的各地選委會大家有一致的標準所以先前就曾經有過很多對於如何查對標準我們有一些含釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
32280.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
32307.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
法律相關的規定我們也提示了所以這個東西是有存在的我們再把它作為一個綜合的整理讓大家作為一個參考好 謝謝 謝謝那我也麻煩那個部長可不可以請也告訴我們說如果針對於未來這個罷免要改善的話有什麼方案可以來執行因為我們這次也知道這個要調高這個門檻其實部長也有表示過將來可能會對於這個政黨造成一些惡性競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
32308.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
32331.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
不當影響,所以提供了三個意見作參考。我們也知道立法院法治局也針對這個罷免改善方案提供了兩個可行性的一個探討,包括植物性質或者是選舉方式做不同的設計跟規劃。這部分不一定不知道有什麼樣的方案、覆案可以跟大家做討論嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
32331.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
32352.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
是,謝謝王委員的指教我相信最大的原因是來自於大家都知道選舉跟罷免雖然是人民的參政權但是在落實也就是說在執行的過程當中難免也加入政黨的競爭那我們最近的一次的選罷法的修正其實就是因為當時的在立法院各個黨團所這個互相協商然後共識過的一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
32357.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
32357.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
32388.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
32388.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
徐富奎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
32408.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
32429.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
主委我想罷免是民意的展現我們不應該用任何的方式來沒收人民的一致這點主委有認同嗎?認同不過現在國民黨跟民眾黨提出幾個版本尤其是要求我們罷免的這個同意票要超過被罷免人的當選票數 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
32429.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
32431.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
32454.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
32456.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
32470.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
32493.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
包括投票率、當選人人數、當選席次等等。基礎不一樣,得出來的票數當然不能做類比。但是用歷屆選舉的模式來看,一定是總統、立委選舉時的投票率會高嗎?選舉的投票率會高,而罷免時的投票率會低。 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
32498.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
32515.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
另外民眾都提出要附身分證、銀紋這件事情我個人以為萬萬不可啦這知識體大這不但有個資外洩的疑慮你像這個茂名連署通常我們整個民眾的理論都在講嘛這沒有人敢打這個風險我想主委你覺得打這個風險沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
32518.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
32522.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
32545.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
32566.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
罷免的時程拉長跟這個身份證的原本可能並沒有很直接的關係。不過我想中選會也會花很多時間在處理這個事情上面,盡量我們的工作量。那另外我想大法官4至499號也有提出這個利益迴避的原則。主委請問這方面是不是要再標示一下你的態度,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
32570.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
32594.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
關於利益迴避的原則的適用這個我們尊重司法院大法官會議的解釋那如果是就我們這次的選罷法的修正案的部分我們認為是不宜來做修正不宜更動的所以在這一屆如果是不宜的話那也不應該把這個不宜留到下一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
32595.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
32617.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
所以只有一個標準嗎?是所以我想現在國民黨跟民眾黨刻意的提高罷免門檻嚴重違反人民使用罷免權的一個權利我想這個恣意提高罷免門檻逃避人民的監督那也竊取一個公民社會的溝通國民黨我們稍微急著排審、復委然後我們事後 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
32620.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
32641.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
二議來修改這個遊戲規則破壞一個政治的一個契約我相信朱毅本身是法律人也當過縣市長現在在我們中選會朱毅是不是應該你講到這個事情你究竟有什麼看法不好意思我剛才沒有很清楚講到你在一個法律人的角度你是很嚴謹的嘛是真的這樣子一個惡意修法你究竟有什麼看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
32642.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
32670.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
我不敢說是惡意修法但是我認為就是說這次修法的發動跟對於這個選制的本身的檢討並沒有很直接的關係而是因為有一股這個政治上的風潮也許是不是會引起相互之間的一個罷免那是因為有這樣子的狀況而產生說要去考慮到要不要來修改這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
32673.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
32679.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
主委,最後我們中選會一定會支持人民有罷免的選擇權利,這點你認同嗎?在我們選務機關來捍衛國民的憲法上保障的參政權,這是我們責無旁貸。接下來請吳佩奕委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
32706.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
32707.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
李慶勇主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
32725.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
32732.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
好,這個呢在今年的10月13號罷免謝國良的罷免投票日當天呢發生了一件事就是我們中正萬華區的臺北市議員鍾曉平他在投票所外面對媒體受訪的時候他說請投下不同意票現場的記者朋友很緊張趕快提醒他說這眾議員這個選舉當天啊在投票所門口已經依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
32752.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
32778.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
不能再拉票了我相信先請問主委這個有沒有違反選罷法在投票日當天在投票所門口來宣傳拉票依照我們選罷法第五十六條第二款跟委員報告這個案子已經有民眾檢舉了是那按照我們處理的程序我們都會先交給地方選委會就事實的部分來做進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
32778.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
32780.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
32801.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
32826.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
要指定動員令要來罷免無配役所以今年7月開始在我的選區連續一個禮拜有這個電話的語音電話在宣傳要罷免無配役這個今天呢我看到國民黨的委員提出選辦法修法版本其中徐宇珍委員的提案他是說一年你就只以 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
32828.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
32843.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
一年以內不得提議以及連署來罷免。這個徐宇昭委員的提案呢,提案人也有我們主席薛欣盈,然後也有國民黨的立委李燕秀,國民黨召委員胡坤祺,這個提案我不認同,不只我不認同,國民黨台北市黨部的主委黃立群也不認同啊,因為主委你知道嗎,我就職到現在, |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
32854.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
32859.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
一年不到我連半年不到七月開始他們就在我的選區提議要罷免我了所以呢我想國民黨是不是回去要跟黨主席、國民黨內部要先討論一下國民黨立委現在這個提案根本就國民黨台北市黨部主委已經公開就不同意見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
32873.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
32891.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
現在就已經在宣傳年屬要罷免無配一、罷免無私養了所以這個可能會需要討論一下但是我還是要說即使我現在被指定國民黨臺北市黨部主委下令動員令我們全區國民黨籍的里長要開始來動員準備明年罷免無配一即使如此我也不贊成國民黨這個修法版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
32896.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
32901.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
因為我們還是要來捍衛人民的罷免權這是憲法賦予人民的權利因為我們作為立法委員很重要一點在修法的時候要利益迴避我們修法是為了扶國利民不能今天說因為我吳佩儀要來被罷免了我趕快來修法說一年之內你們不能宣傳不可以這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
32919.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
32925.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
人家要罷免我們,這是民眾的權利,我們能做的是什麼?我們要更加努力。我這邊直接講嘛,國民黨你黃綠緊綠,你戴中正奧華,你付出什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
32929.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
32937.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
我的付出努力是他們的一千倍、一萬倍,所以對自己方有信心。我們要更加努力為民服務,爭取民眾的認同,不是在立法院搞修法、修惡法、內修、沒收民眾的人民罷免權。這是立委的權利、的責任,還有這個蘇清泉委員的版本,一樣,同樣也是一個自私之利的修法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
32950.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
32974.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
因為蘇清泉委員在評論會選舉的時候說當時想要驗票但是因為驗票按照現在法規只有千分之三的這個規定嘛所以當時不符合法規所以現在他修法說要放寬千分之三不夠放寬到千分之十這通通都是為了自私利己的修法立委不可以這個樣子所以我希望我們在場所有不分黨派各位立法院的同仁們 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
32975.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
32987.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
即便我們要面臨民眾的罷免,這民眾的權利我們要尊重,我們要為民眾捍衛他們的基本憲法保障的參政權,而我們自己要更加努力爭取民眾的認同。謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝。接下來請郭國文委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
33003.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
33032.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
謝謝主席 有請李俊勇主委好 請李主委主委好 主委您的任期到現在幾年了我有五年多了五年多了嗎五年多了 任期到明年的十一月好像六月就來了嘛 是的在你印象當中 第九屆進來的時候到第十屆 第十屆的時候有沒有來審查這個選罷法類似今天的這樣的草案 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
33035.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
33057.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
有關於門檻的問題在上一屆的時候我印象中沒有沒有嘛對不對我跟你講上一屆的時候本席有提案你有沒有曉得本席有提案將門檻調高所以說這個我們內政委員會完全沒有討論嘛因為本席在提出這個版本的那種當中被國民黨拿來做宣傳說郭國恩有提啊賴瑞榮也有提啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
33057.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
33059.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
33078.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
33098.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
沒有實行日期也就等於從這一屆就開始適用耶。這一頭就牽扯到大法官會議事案解釋的499號案的部分,有些所謂又有自肥的嫌疑。這一頭當然你不方便講自肥啊,你是說法律上的適合性與否。但是以499號案來說的話是延任嘛,是任期的延長嘛對不對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
33100.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
33127.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
但是如果防止罷免、阻礙罷免、閹割罷免的情況底下相對而言也是減少任期的縮短嘛防止任期的縮短嘛所以終歸來說一個任期的延長也好或者呢避免任期的縮短也好都是在保護任期嘛 對不對是的是的嘛 對不對所以499號案跟國民黨現在的這一個提案內容當中就異曲同工之妙嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
33130.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
33148.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
主委 既然都是同本職都是一種任期保護當然有異曲同工之妙你這有些牽扯到自肥的問題嘛牽扯到自肥的問題再加上他不是從下一屆開始那不是很清楚就是違憲嗎主委不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
33149.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
33174.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
這條文內容來說就很清楚啦都是一種任期的保護啊這不看就很清楚就是違憲的條款了嘛對不對再加上什麼這一次更糟糕的部分啊它是把門檻加高第一個不能宣傳是不是有這種條文對不對第二個要用身份證是不是身份證又可能會引起詐騙集團來藉故來收集這些各自的嫌疑嘛是不是對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
33175.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
33189.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
33206.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
33229.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
從哪邊支出?從哪邊動資?罷免如果是立委的話那是中央要編列預算當然是你編列預算啊一般而言你是用從第二準備金嘛對不對以前啊我查過嘛林昶佐的部分大概花了1500萬嘛陳柏惟的部分花了2000萬嘛我可以跟你講啊以後你這筆錢不用編那麼多了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
33230.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
33242.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
如果國民黨的版本通過的話你這一筆錢根本不用到用得到的機會非常少因為大家看到門檻那麼高就不想進行罷免啊不想進行罷免的部分的話你這筆錢就不用花了嘛不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
33243.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
33262.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
我們大概都不會編罷免的預算了。不會,但是你是動員第二預備金啦。是的。所以第二預備金就不用編那麼多啦。所以這等於是國民黨自打嘴巴把蘇文當年留下來的所謂的這個罷免權把它閹割掉嘛。國民黨的這個徒子徒孫把他之前的蘇文所創建的這個罷免權把它去除掉嘛,不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
33263.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
33283.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
最後的結果我是覺得你這後面的預算其實就不用變那麼多了啦如果國民黨真的這個法案通過的話也是可以順便把這部分的預算板要刪除掉了其實國民黨就是最需要做的是什麼不是修改法案啦是修改自己的言行啦因為自己的言行道行逆施才會引起人民的不滿想要罷免你啦我覺得主席今天真的是操之過急讓我們時間講這麼短了等這麼久謝謝好謝謝郭國文委員接下來請林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
33304.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
33305.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
審查委員李珠瑋 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
33314.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
33331.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
主委好我想今天討論了一整天雖然休息的時間非常長因為時間只有四分鐘所以我要講話講快一點我要echo一下就是剛剛吳佩儀委員她所提到的問題就是現在國民黨的版本我們看得出來其實就是司馬昭之心路人兼師他們怕他們進入所謂大罷免時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
33333.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
33335.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
但是我們看到現在前面有幾台媒體本身也是媒體出來的主委你應該知道以我們現在現行的法規在投票前的晚上10點鐘就禁止在媒體上面的宣傳然後一般民眾在社群媒體當中是過了12點鐘也就是跨過隔天在社群媒體上面就不能宣傳對嗎?是那這是依照哪一條法律? |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
33364.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
33390.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
好 我來告訴你好了 這個就是剛剛吳佩儀有提到的就是我們的選罷法第56條好 那麼如果根據現在國民黨他們的提議跟提案在一年前就不可以講那麼我們都知道如果說有人違反選罷法在投票前10點鐘 如果現在現場有媒體在10點以後還幫特定的候選人來宣傳是由誰來負責開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
33393.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
33397.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
中選會嗎?還是NCC?是中選會還是NCC?是中選會。中選會嘛,對不對?活動期間。非活動期間嘛,對不對?就是過了選舉的截止宣傳的時候,那社群媒體,我們過去有一些案例,在投票的當天還有人發社群媒體來幫特定候選人宣傳,是不是也是中選會來負責開罰?是的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
33419.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
33441.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
好 那我就請問了如果說那像現在這個法規過去了之後我在社群媒體當中我只要提到罷免我只要在電視台提到罷免就一律都要開法是這個意思嗎在未滿一年的情況底下是不是罷免這兩個字變成了不能說的話台灣是不是變成是一個言論自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
33448.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
33462.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
前置的國家。這幾天國民黨一直在考試民進黨說要戒嚴啦。我實在不知道現在國民黨是不是要用透過選罷法來實施另外一種戒嚴。就是讓罷免這兩個字連講都不能講。 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
33467.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
33480.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
所以這個是另外一個層次的問題在一年以前對於任何人做罷免的倡議倡議這兩個字就是我現在講出來那我的意思是說今天如果有人寫臉書今天現在在後面還有四台攝影機 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
33488.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
33500.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
當甚至於超過10台只要有哪一台講到罷免有某某某有罷免的意思是不是這些媒體通通被二司機抓去罰然後這些寫臉書的、寫粹的、寫LINE的通通都要抓去裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
33506.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
33522.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
是這樣嗎?那這個是不是台灣要回到戒嚴的白色恐怖?所以我要說國民黨現在是不是透過修正選罷法要實施白色恐怖智慧的戒嚴讓罷免這兩個字是連講都不能講如果你告訴我你認為是不是這樣?主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
33526.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
33531.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
如果不是的話,那請問是要怎麼罰、怎麼抓或是怎麼樣來定義、提議或倡議,是怎麼界定?無從規範,州選會也無從去查處。 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
33541.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
33544.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
33564.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
33566.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
二、審查委員邱志偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
33599.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
33623.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
這個質詢時間只有240秒啊這個請中選會李主委、內政部劉部長好請李主委、劉部長部長好像坐也比較久一點齁活絡活絡筋骨這個不管主委或者部長你們都擔任過立法委員你們也擔任過這個地方的行政首長坐檢禮位啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
33627.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
33649.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
你要思考到國家的利益、全民的利益制定的法律要扶國利民而不是禍國殃民制定的法律要得到這個大家的支持、全民的支持才能可餐可酒制定的法律要符合民主的要求不能制定出反民主、屠殺民主的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
33655.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
33666.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
我看這修法我暗中都睡不著我不曉得站在這個政治工作者不管是李主委你看這個修法你會不會覺得憂心啊罷免權是民主國家基本規範對不對你這個一修法完成之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
33677.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
33686.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
事實上讓罷免權是名存實亡啊!大家要用一萬不可能有兩個把邊的人成立啊!你有同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
33691.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
33706.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
中選會作為一個選務的執行機關那對於這個一般人民的選舉權尤其是憲法所保證的參政權我們要予以維護這是我們責無旁貸的那如果修法之後這個你有辦法維護嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
33708.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
33732.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
所以我們一定要把這個話講清楚這樣子的修法你幽不幽心我幽心幽心是這樣子的修法是違反了憲法保障權反民主也有違憲對不對幽心重重啊重鬆我不是要睡不著嗎那個我請教一下那個劉部長劉部長劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
33736.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
33738.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
你會不會用心重重 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
33742.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
33750.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
謝謝委員的關心我想我的觀點跟李主委是一樣的因為人民參政權本來就是選舉罷免創制復決那如果罷免的門檻提高之後其實就是變相的剝奪或者是變相的剝奪了人民的罷免權那我想這個對於未來的政治發展都不會是一個正面的我們自詡為民主國家 對不對甚至是民主國家模範生 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
33768.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
33780.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
竟然堂堂在中華民國在台灣的國會制定出一個反民主的法案我們以後在國際社會敢說我們是民主國家的模範生嗎?我會覺得很害羞耶我會覺得很害羞耶台灣人你竟然制定出這麼反民主而且違憲的法案所有民眾都出來抗爭反對天怒人怨部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
33798.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
33804.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
副長,您有沒有什麼好的解方?讓我的憂心重重指數能夠下降一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
33806.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
33832.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
我是建議說是不是可以維持現在的選舉罷免制度因為我們都知道在立法院裡面政黨的競爭非常的激烈那表示說社會上如果是要求我們整體的社會是一個穩定發展的話不要隨便修改選舉罷免的條款或是門檻所以他把個人利益凌駕於國家利益把政黨利益凌駕於國家利益嘛 對不對從動機行為理論 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
33836.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
33837.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
主委同意嗎?時間到了,我要遵守時間。謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
33867.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
33868.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
陳冠廷委員主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
33890.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
33918.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
最好,剛才給你的書面資料請你先看一下因為我要就我這個選罷法的修正案裡面的第52條來針對這個地方來跟你請教一下我提出來的修正裡面有提到說政黨任何人印發文字圖畫從事競選之宣傳品應親自簽名非政黨推薦候選人未經政黨授權不得在宣傳筆上使用政黨負責人頭像政黨負責人姓名跟政黨負責人標章 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
33919.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
33936.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
我為什麼這樣講是因為這次的選舉在總統大選的時候有許多地區的不管是在立委或者是總統的地方會有特定的是刻意混淆什麼意思呢他會特定的為了要減少某一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
33936.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
33941.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
33965.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
33989.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
所以這是很嚴肅的問題,我剛剛提供給你的資料你仔細看一下,比方說就有幾位不管是從嘉義到高雄,他們會用當時的副總統的頭像來作為他們宣傳品,但是他們沒有經過民主進步黨或者是當時的執政黨的授權,所以說這個是有意義的在去削弱或者是分散這些人的票源。 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
33990.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
34011.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
這是非常嚴肅的問題我發覺到許多國家特別是俄羅斯也在用類似的方式來去把民主政黨特別是他們反對黨的這些候選人他們會利用這樣的方式用跟反對黨候選人黨魁共同的這些照片去宣傳來去削弱反對黨的支持者的票源 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
34012.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
34026.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
這不是您身邊所回應的我剛剛看到這個書面報告按政黨是否推薦某任人或是否授權該政黨推薦之候選人使用政黨之頭像、政黨負責人姓名跟政黨標章是涉及其結盟考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
34027.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
34052.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
不是的,這是有特意在違反或者是想要有意義式的把我們的選舉系統去破壞的。所以這個我希望中選會是要去正視它的,不是說反正你就找其他民反來去找就好。他們就是要利用我們的漏洞去反民主嘛。我們現在的民主制度是用選辦法這樣子,我們當然是要做出相應的方式去修正啊。不然到時候你就會發生到有各種螢幕混濁的現象出現嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
34053.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
34059.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 三、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
34068.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
34092.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
今天我們談論選罷法的修正案提出意見我就是希望說有這樣子的問題這樣子的東西要拿出來公開討論有這樣公聽會的機會我們才有辦法去把一項一項的事情去討論而不是去強硬通過嘛當然在我們選罷法今天大家都是專注在這個罷免相關的法律上面可是我們國家不是只有罷免相關的法律其實這一次的選戰有各種來去侵擾我們的民主進程的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
34093.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
34095.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
34102.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
34130.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
看看我們這麼多修正的法案跟我們這一次選戰我們這幾次選舉遇到的問題那是很可怕的耶就是不是只有我們的兩個國家兩個本土政黨在決鬥而已其他來自中國的這種各種的影響力用螢幕混珠的方式都是存在的所以我是真的很希望趙偉我們現在是不是可以不要操之過急然後來去有機會的話來召開公聽會我們把這些問題因為它同時除了影響我們之外也會影響到你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
34132.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
34137.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
審博洋委員審博洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
34159.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
34159.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
34172.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
34188.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
主委好主委好 謝謝那我今天看今天的案子其實有6個不同的案子那因為我們現在只有4分鐘240秒啦所以我看一個案子大概就是只能問40秒左右顯然不是很合理啦所以呢我們就只能集中問幾個我比較關心的點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
34190.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
34205.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
那剛剛第一個就是冠廷有問到就是說關於這一個特定的政黨他會去使用別人的肖像啊什麼等等的之類那現在除了我們單純的譬如說請他不能夠這樣子以外或者說有一定的行政裁罰有什麼什麼預防的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
34207.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
34229 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
我想這種現象大概分成兩種狀況有一種狀況我們也不能夠否認的政黨跟政黨之間的一個合縱連橫那也許會發生說不同政黨但是允許相當程度有一定的連結對但他有時候他的案例其實有時候可能是當然又惡意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
34229.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
34246.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
有惡意的連結希望造成選民認知的這個錯誤因此來作為他投票的依據也會有這種狀況對 因為我為什麼問這個很大的原因是因為他如果已經出現了結果後來才去裁罰或者去組織那個傷害已經造成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
34246.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
34262.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
所以要有什麼預防的措施?譬如說假設他在看因為我們不可能他在刊登相關的廣告或者做任何的宣傳的時候要經過中選委員的審核這是不可能的事情所以也就是說這件事情我們即使在法律做了這樣的一個規定他可能還是很難去預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
34264.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
34278.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
中選會除了你這個廣告的這個內容是很明顯的違法的這個我們可以去處理之外那如果說認定上有困難的話其實中選會也無從尤其是沒有辦法及時的來做認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
34280.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
34302.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
這個就是手段跟目的的問題就是說我們今天很多的法律我們在制定的時候我們會想要達到一個目的但那個手段可能不一定足夠但反過來講有時候手段可能會過多譬如說我們在這個已經剛剛我記得張祺凱委員在這邊在問關於這個身份證影本等等的事情我覺得他可能搞錯一件事情了因為身份證影本其實已經出委員會了所以他根本就不知道我們今天這個議案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
34303.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
34318.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
但是,因為他那時候講的,譬如說什麼死人連署啊,什麼等等之類的,我剛剛聽主委回答,其實在本來的機制裡面,我們就可以知道說啊,這個是有問題的,然後予以剔除嘛。所以你用了這個引本的方式,你就可能沒有辦法達到這個目的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
34319.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
34334.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
那我們今天要討論的案子呢不管是他的這個同意票必須要大於當時的這個票數他的罷免的這個目的到底是什麼其實中間也是沒有關聯性的照理說今天罷免照理說第一個他是人民要能夠行使他的政治的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
34335.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
34353.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
所以他應該是第一個他的門檻絕對不能夠過高但是另外一個方面不能夠有權力的濫用但今天即使他定了同意票要大於這個當時當選的票數他根本就沒有辦法阻止權力濫用這件事情所以他最後只剩一個副作用就是他實質的提高罷免的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
34354.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
34371.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
這當然是不能夠接受的事情。但我最後還有一個問題,因為時間不太夠。因為有六個,一個只能問40秒,這真的是不合理。我不知道這個議程到底怎麼安排的。但是我還是要問一下關於到底最後幾天才能夠明掉這件事情。我覺得這個反而是值得討論的事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
34372.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
34386.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
目前我看到翁委員的這個提案看來時間尚有縮短那中選會當然在這一邊的態度是比較明顯的那有沒有什麼比較實質上的一個數據認為說到底是幾天不能夠發布才是比較妥當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
34388.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
34407.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
絕對的一個標準大概很難啦很難那世界各國所採取的這個方式也都很奇異那台灣這個規定10天這個是在諸多的這個主張裡面是草野協商最大的共識所以就定10天了 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
34407.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
34435.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
我覺得主委這個答案很好因為它有時候它並不是一個科學的問題它是一個政治問題政治的問題在立法院藉由朝野邪香得到一定的結論的時候它其實就是應該各黨應該遵守了那如果今天要用暴力的方式把它直接縮短或者甚至把它延長都一樣這個其實都是在破壞民主的精神這跟我們今天要達到的目的其實是完全不合啦是的那我最後還是要再講一次就是說一個問題40秒真的太少了啦好 謝謝主委謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
34436.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
34436.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
郭婉嫻議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
34469.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
34493.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
在這裡我先講一個小小的故事我要諧詢一個2013年的大語言家他那時候說了什麼他說有一批立委啊他或許預知他接下來會做很可怕的事情所以他在立法院裡面提案進一步讓你的罷免程序變得複雜中間講了很多很多然後他說我理念上支持啦但是要我把影本交出來門都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
34494.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
34495.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
34522.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
34523.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
二、審查委員黃國昌等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
34527.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
34554.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
黃國昌先生黃國昌委員好 這個憲法第十七條其實我們有明定啦人民有選舉罷免創制複決之權那罷免權呢其實是憲法賦予人民的參政權那這個是不可以在沒有經過充分的討論就要強行用修法來被剝奪限制民權的一個行使啦那我想呢這個因為擔心自己做不好而被罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
34555.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
34570.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
那也因為這樣就想要來修改遊戲規則這個在很多人聽起來其實是荒謬至極非常荒謬的一件事情我想要做好公職人員的本分有這麼難嗎不要利用台灣的民主反民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
34571.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
34577.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
34595.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
34622.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
應該要通過的學府法又把它延後了大概一個禮拜這中間一個禮拜當然也發生了新北市的學校有學生14歲跳樓自殺學府法應該要擺在最前面我想呢應該是要把民生的法案把重要的法案擺在這種政治性怕自己被罷免要提高罷免門檻的修法應該要把它擺在最後我不曉得主委您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
34624.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
34639.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
關於議程的安排我們不便自著了但是排上這個法案因為我們選務機關認為還有待商榷所以我們必須要很負責任把我們的立場我們的顧慮要向委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
34641.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
34664.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
另外根據大法官的釋字號第499號的解釋利益迴避其實是公職人員應該遵守的一個原則當立委面臨可能被罷免的情況之下是不是真的應該為了要自我保護而修法提升罷免的難度這個部分我想請教一下主委您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
34666.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
34686.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
這也牽涉到所謂的利益迴避的問題我們覺得這個修法是不好的那既然是不好的話不應該說現在通過了只是現任的立委不適用但是把這個不應該通過的法律留到下一屆去適用它還是不應該適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
34687.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
34687.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
吳思瑤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
34720.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
34720.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
有請主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
34728.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
34747.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
好,那辛苦了,還是要再次抗議,有四分鐘很難針對這麼重要的法案來做完整的論述。那我想我對於罷免的方面的提案,我們民進黨團立場非常的清楚,我們反對用任何的方式,哪怕是在連署加難,或者是投票的門檻提高,來閹割人民珍貴的憲法復權、罷免權,我們都反對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
34754.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
34757.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
但今天我要針對選罷法53條的條文我發現這是今天排審一個非常重要的新的議案也就是主委您知道這個世界119個國家進行調查有79個國家都有所謂的選前冷靜期 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
34772.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
34790.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
選前冷靜期除了禁止在特定時間的競選活動或者是禁止媒體相關報導還包括禁止公佈民調。那翁曉琳委員她提的案子是針對選辦法52條要把民調的冷靜期也就是禁止公佈民調的時間從10天縮短為3天。 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
34794.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
34816.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
我個人認為民調是一個選舉有效的策略更被原用成為一種武器成本非常低廉利用假民調來影響選舉在台灣發生的案例也非常多我想現在有幾件大家都還記憶深刻的事情譬如說在去年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
34817.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
34843.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
在總統選舉三組候選人的選舉的辯論會上柯文哲民眾黨的總統候選人就公開在公開辯論的時候他質疑了國民黨的侯友宜候選人說你為什麼接受中共的假民調來影響選舉這是柯文哲對侯友宜在選舉的公開辯論會裡頭他的提問 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
34846.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
34872.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
而這件事情不是空穴來風在今年8月30號也正式被判刑了就是有一位林姓的記者跟蘇姓的退休教授確實收受了中共福建省委員會150萬的報酬灌水來製造假民調替侯康沛衝高支持率最後被台中地院今年8月底判決確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
34875.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
34901.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
所以呢我看到劉世芳部長在這裡為什麼內政部要循政黨法的規範提請憲法法庭來解散統促黨因為有非常清楚的證據統促黨收受7400萬的金額來介入台灣的選舉所以中共的借選不只對台灣對世界各國包括今年剛選完的美國總統大選 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
34903.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
34910.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
34921.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
34944.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
所以中選會你們會支持民調從10天禁止日期縮短為3天嗎?我們認為現行的辦法10天既然是當初這個草野的共識那這個一般的選民也都認同了適應了那所以這個10天我們認為不宜再更改 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
34944.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
34945.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
王小玲提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
34962.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
34976.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
讓民調的冷靜期縮短為三天中共的公然借選就更廉價的可以影響台灣的選舉期期以為不可所以我也呼籲主席這個是新的提案新生事物 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
34977.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
34992.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
切勿快速的進入審查我們需要公聽會這個是這一次一併今天列入來議案要討論的新生議題我們需要跟非常多的選舉專家政治專家民調專家媒體專家乃至於公民團體來嚴肅的討論這項修法這是我對於主席的期待我們需要公聽會再行審查相關的議案謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
35006.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
35007.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
臨月勤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
35035.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
35054.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
針對翁小林委員等人提案《選罷法》第53條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前10天縮短為前3天。關於這點,我覺得大家可以好好想一想。過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調攻擊、假訊息干擾。 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
35056.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
35075.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
導致影響最後選舉的結果,當初設計10天前禁止發布民調,用意也是如果真的有假民調、假訊息,要給候選人有一個澄清的機會。關於委員提案縮短為3天,我不曉得用意為何,難道是磨刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
35076.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
35095.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
這個制度設計就是要保護台灣民主制度避免惡意操作這樣的胡亂修法我擔心會有無法想像的後果所以想問諸位十天前調整成三天不能夠發布民調你認為會有什麼問題我們看不到把十天縮短為三天的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
35096.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
35099.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
有關徐宇珍委員修正的修法的版本要將選罷法的90條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數我更是深感不解攤開我國選舉的歷程罷免的投票率 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
35121.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
35145.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
普遍低於一般的投票這變相加嚴了罷免的條件也導致了被民眾戲稱鳥籠罷免此外目前的現行機制我必須坦白說無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰有罷免成功也有罷免失敗的這也代表目前制度不分顏色不分黨派都促使民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
35145.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
35161.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計五、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條條文修正草案．計五、審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
35162.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
35188.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
我們已經做過很多次的說明最重要的就是它的利潤基礎是不存在的因為兩個數字它所產生的這個基礎是完全不一樣包括投票率包括當選人的人數包括候選人的人數都不一樣這些都是一些變相既然這個基礎不一樣的話你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的這個數字來做比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
35193.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
35222.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
那你覺得這是一種很簡單的講很簡單的講就是你不能夠用這個選舉投票時的民意要來壓制這個罷免投票時的民意因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意經過至少一年半以後那麼很多在當初的民意可能會發生變動會發生變動所以他已經不具參考的價值了 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
35222.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
35224.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
35228.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
35255.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
是不是假罷免?他真的要罷免?是真的要罷免可是基本上門檻調得這麼高的時候根本就是做不到不是嗎?所以目前我覺得現行的罷免機制不管藍綠過去真的是有成功也有失敗有投票通過罷免也有否決不管藍綠職位高低民意代表都真的是必須戰戰兢兢來接受民意的監督跟檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
35256.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
35271.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
這也是我們的選舉罷免精神所在,所以如今藍白要沒收了,不知道是害怕還是霸道。好,以上謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝。接下來請邱益穎委員。那請李崑澤委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
35285.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
35288.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
好,謝謝張偉。請一下李主委。李主委好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
35297.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
35326.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
主委您好大家都提到投票日前投票日前十日禁止公佈民調要來做這次修法要調整為三日其實爭議是很大在選舉的理論裡面有一個著名的理論叫做漏斗理論漏斗理論就是選舉活動剛開始的時候大家考慮的因素會很多會有你的社會的狀況突發的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
35326.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
35332.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
35353.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
35355.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
35366.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
35387.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
民調對於選舉的衝擊是非常大的不管是以前的臺北市長的選舉或是宋楚瑜參選總統的選舉或是這一次的總統大選的選舉都可以看到假民調的衝刺對選情的一個衝擊那這一次會做這樣的一個提案的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
35388.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
35397.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
做修正啊我認為是萬萬不能接受啊這個會讓假民調更為充斥要讓民眾去理解或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
35398.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
35422.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
去做澄清的時候沒有辦法去做處理這對選舉的公平性影響非常大來 主委簡單說明一下現在的這個民調它的包裝可能會做得非常非常的精細就是讓你不會覺得說 欸 被人看到你就會傷心了所以要讓我們的選民他能夠有足夠的時間去做分辨 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
35423.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
35442.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
35450.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
35468.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
必須要低於當選票這個是非常奇特的一個政治的設計我們限縮人民罷免的權利這是反公民的行為這是非常離譜的然後我們看到所謂的選舉罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
35470.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
35475.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
35482.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
35509.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
如果說我們要把這個罷免能夠成立你的同意票要高於你的當選的一個票數的話這無疑是限制人民的基本的一個罷免的權利這在我們的憲政體制跟政治制度的設計是相違反的這個問題是非常嚴重那其實在多數的民主國家他們都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
35510.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
35512.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
35529.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
35547.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
其實相關的議題我已經在今天說明了很多次了每次講的也都差不多了所以是不是容許我也許各位請各位不要介意容許我用另外一種方式來表達也就是剛剛提到的這個選舉的票 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
35550.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
35556.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
35580.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
35594.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
身為立法委員保障人民的權利是我們最基本的責任不是去限縮人民的權利這是我一再要提醒各位的接下來請葉元之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
35613.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
35640.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
麻煩請中選會主委好請你主委主委好剛剛那個我們立法院學弟王逸川他用我的用我來舉例他說如果要罷免我的話可以擺攤的話就可以如果要改成要身份證可以變個資對不對是吧剛剛這樣講吧我想問一下現在如果要連署的話需不需要提供個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
35641.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
35659.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
在不修法的情況下,現行版本要連署要不要提供個資?我們的提議的這個格式以及這個...要提供什麼?身份證字號要不要?身份證字號要不要?要。那個地址要不要?要。姓名要不要?要。那這是不是個資? |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
35661.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
35679.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
是吧,所以在現行的版本情況之下,詐騙極端如果要收集個資它也是可以嘛,這是第一件事情。第二件事情,王逸川剛剛講說,如果我們要讓這個提議或連署失效的話,就自己去擺另外一個攤,然後讓來連署的人,他重複連署就可以失效。請問一下這個狀況在現在的情況之下,會不會發生? |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
35682.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
35691.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
可不可不可以發生我不保證他不會發生會發生嗎所以實際上詐騙集團如果要詐騙的話跟要不要提供身份證沒什麼關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
35693.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
35716.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
我是不知道為什麼王一川這麼了解詐騙集團的心聲可能憑那種交流還是怎麼樣其實他講的東西在現在就會發生那如果按照他的邏輯的話我們現在是不是要把連署的階段取消因為怕詐騙集團收集個資以後罷免或者是總統選舉那個如果獨立參選人要連署乾脆把連署把它取消好了因為都有可能被騙個資嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
35718.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
35746.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
所以這應該不會是討慮的主要的論點啦論點應該是說把身份證加進去會不會減少死人連署、濫用連署、抄名單嘛這個才是關鍵嘛好我問主委第二個問題選法法75條說就職未滿一年者不得罷免對不對是請問一下就職未滿一年不得罷免的定義是什麼是說不能向中選會提交罷免還是說不能啟動罷免的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
35747.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
35761.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
不得向中選會提出罷免提議所以換句話說在我們現在選爸爸的規定裡面有人可以比如說選輸了立刻找自己的競選團隊開始罷免對手可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
35762.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
35765.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
35778.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
35799.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
因為我選輸你,你的得票比較高,下次要選行遠離你不容易,所以乾脆我第二天就開始啟動罷免,把你罷免掉,利用這個罷免門檻比較低,希望能夠爭取第二次罷免的機會。這個就是我們現在選辦法最荒謬的地方,人家可能一天都還沒開始做,就準備要被罷免了。主委你認同這種惡罷嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
35801.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
35806.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
35823.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
35849.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
因為選贏你不容易啊他們要爭取再次翻盤的機會嘛願賭不服輸嘛所以不需要把罷免講得好像哎呀什麼沒收民權啊這個不是沒收民權啊這個是沒收別人政治鬥爭願賭不服輸的這個權利讓他們一罷再罷一罷再罷搞得每年都要選舉可以這樣子喔好再來啊我念一段話啦看一下主委認不認同啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
35850.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
35865.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
而說單一席次往往造成高票當選低票罷免少數民意否決多數民意的狀況這個是民主機制的謬誤應該罷免同意票要多於當初的得票一票請問一下你認同這樣的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
35867.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
35888.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
你認同嗎?這個就是今天我們討論的重點。你認不認同?我個人不認同。那你就打臉郭國文了啦!因為這個是郭國文的主張啊!當時郭國文提出這個案子還有好幾位民進黨的立委連署。所以著是驚悲啊!類似的版本民進黨提很多,不是只有郭國文。賴瑞榮也提到一模一樣的案子啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
35890.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
35913.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
罷免實施之後出現惡罷亂象重生違反票票等值為了要改善惡質罷免的這個文化所以同意罷免票要多於當初得票一票那又用講的所以我真的不知道民進黨每一個人在這邊講的一副好像捍衛民主價值講那麼一大堆實際上只是想要鬥爭嘛謝謝謝謝葉委員接下來請陳妍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
35930.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
35937.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
等下陳怡委員質詢完,我們讓部長、主委還有行政人員大家可以休息五分鐘用洗手間。好,謝謝主席。麻煩請中選會主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
35951.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
35971.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
主委好我想首先在這裡要跟主委討論一個概念每一個人每一張票都非常的重要那即便是總統的選舉就是那麼多人投票的這個選舉也一樣每一票都是非常重要的這樣的一個概念我想主委你是認同的吧是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
35972.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
35996.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
好 那我記得在2018年的這個選舉的時候曾經發生了一件還蠻刺激的事就是說這個平地原住民的選民呢選務人員竟然給了山地原住民的選票那主委也知道就是2014年在南投的這個原住民議員的選舉勝負之差只有差一票而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
35997.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
36019.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
所以每一票都很重要尤其是在我們原住民的這個選舉當中他的這個影響更是很明顯的那麼在今年是這個今年是這個總統跟立法委員的這個選舉那依照規定選舉公報呢應該是在兩日前就要送到這個選舉人的手上了 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
36020.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
36039.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
今年選舉是1月13日,我1月10日收到彰化的選民跟我說,他們只有收到選區立委公報、總統候選人的公報以及政黨票公報,但是並沒有收到原住民立委的選舉公報。當下我跟中選會反應說, |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
36043.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
36044.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2二、審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
36063.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
36077.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
對於委員接受民眾的陳情對我們選委會提出這些問題的話我們都應該會直接跟縣的選委會做聯繫希望他們能夠查明 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
36078.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
36096.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
但是因為他這件事情是就發生在選前三天嘛那我辦公室只好說趕快去跟當然我們也有趕快去跟那個彰化的這個宣文會聯繫可是你知道他們怎麼回的嗎他們也是很誇張就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
36097.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
36112.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
他不知道說原住民立委的選舉公報有沒有發他們都不知道然後他們要我們的團隊自己去統計有多少戶沒有收到然後呢還要我們寫好姓名地址傳真給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
36114.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
36131.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
那他們在重新濟發我想要請教主委喔就是選務工作是這樣做的嗎我們不是選務人員呢我想我這個個案我可能回去我要再進行了解喔如果像委員所說的這樣子的處理的過程的話那我們一定要嚴加糾正 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
36132.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
36148.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
是,因為在原住民每次在相關選舉在投票之前,像這種,這樣類似的事情,層出不窮。是,因為過去曾經發生過,所以我們也都是一再的叮嚀,一再的交代。 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
36149.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
36171.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
因為當時我的選民是說不只他們這個里沒有收到連隔壁也沒有收到那就是說選委會要去統計要民眾自己去統計有多少人沒有收到然後還要傳真回傳這個姓名地址給他們就這個真的是一個非常扯的事情我們會進行調查把這個調查結果跟委員做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
36172.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
36187.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
那現在看起來主委你說現在要回去了解那等於說這件事情選舉結束到現在現在已經12月了那你們都完全都沒有去了解這個問題出在哪裡然後未來要怎麼改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
36189.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
36210.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
我這樣聽起來我看主委還是沒有掌握這樣的一個情形。初步他們跟我講是沒有接獲通報了。那更誇張了。我一定要再進行了解。所以你們吃案了嗎?那個彰化那邊吃案了嗎?我來瞭解我來瞭解。好那我希望兩個禮拜跟我們回報這個結果。好謝謝。謝謝。好我們現在休息五分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
36231.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
36248.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
36254.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
36265.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計八條及第六十九 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
36270.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
36288.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2審查委員楊曜等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
36292.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
36320.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四十條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四十條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四十條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四十條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四十條及第六十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
36323.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
36341.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案． |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
36349.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
36366.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
二、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。三、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案。四、審查公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
36802.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
36803.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
陳培育委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
36825.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
36839.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
主委好我們今天在這邊一整天我的朋友在線上問我說你們到底在談什麼這樣大家已經有點看不懂了那我就解釋給他聽我說呢國民黨的提案他希望這個得票數的部分呢還有這個身份證的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
36840.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
36843.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
36860.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
36870.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
會有一個很大的部分的疑慮就是當讓我們的國民交出身份證的時候其實可能會降低人民對於政治的信任度這個部分你認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
36871.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
36896.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
也就是說如果我的資料是可以被國家這樣掌控的如果國家用這樣的權力來強迫人民那其實會讓人民對於民主政治其實是越來越沒有信心交出這樣子的牽涉到個人的這個資料的部分國民是會有戒心的這個戒心也許是來自於對政府的不信任也許是來自於被詐騙集團的一個憂慮都有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
36896.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
36919.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
對,我相信尤其是內政部這麼積極地在做很多詐騙、紡織的工作一個非常重要的提醒不管是對長輩或是對青少年我們都告訴大家不要隨便交出證件所以我覺得光是這件事情我們就應該更努力地讓全國人民知道如果真的藍白的法案通過之後光是身份證這件事情我覺得是一般人民會有同感的接下來像這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
36921.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
36934.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
36936.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
36958.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
也就是說如果罷免的門檻變這麼困難然後不適任的民意代表這麼難以被罷免其實人民就會對政治越來越冷感越來越沒有信心認為都是你們這些在搞政治的人自己玩就好了於是民意代表被監督的強度跟機會也就降低了這個直接的是限制了人民的罷免權 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
36959.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
36983.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
當然反射的利益是不是有些公職人員會因此避免或者是躲過這個被罷免的可能性這個反射的利益會存在對沒錯我認為這件事情應該讓更多人知道接下來呢我認為回到我們自己身為民意代表身上我們會不會就因此降低了對政治工作負責任的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
36984.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
37007.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
尤其是現在我們看到很多立法委員一天到晚在上通告我們久久才能夠看到他甚至於跟我在同樣一個交易文化委員會的葉元之委員他連第一次要質詢的時候他都搞不清楚狀況他錯過了第一次的質詢我認為這樣是一個非常不及格的民意代表一旦藍白的法案通過之後把這個罷免的門檻變得這麼難是不是我們就更難以 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
37011.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
37012.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
37018.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
37027.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
公職人員如何去行使他的職權,如何去經營他的選民,這個每個人可能都有不同的方式,所以這點我們就無從評論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
37047.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
37048.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
二、審查委員陳培鈺委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
37077.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
37078.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
二、審查委員劉建國委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
37101.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
37121.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
地方議員代表其實也有制定法律的權利不過這屬於地方的事項只要是經過民意機關通過通通叫做法律我只要表達就是說有時候在法律訂定的過程裡面不一定極盡的公平也必須要透過多次的修正之後才有辦法達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
37122.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
37126.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
37140.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
37141.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
二、審查《公職人員選舉罷免法》修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
37157.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
37159.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
37174.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
37195.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
我必須要很誠懇地在這邊做這樣的呼籲,但我看我們中選會主委這個已經站了一整天,聲音已經快沒有了,我是不是要請,輪一下請劉部長,不然劉部長在那邊也蠻孤單的,我只有四分鐘而已,剩下三分鐘而已,我有十萬火急的重要議題要請教劉部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
37197.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
37225.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
審查委員劉仁豪 年代資金條例跟處理廠事務會這個部分我們在第3個會期已經通過了對不對那因為這次預算就持續的在這樣的杯葛退回然後最終開始審了不過目前為止內政委員會相關的預算還沒有審進所以沒有到大會去那有可能這次會議會到1月21號有可能嘛有可能會到1月21號才決定那1月21號整個如果決定之後有順利完成三讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
37226.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
37248.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
那這位村里長有機會領到第一次的這個1.5的春節假花的1.5個月的這個事務會嗎?是沒有問題我們確定因為這個是我們自己在上個會期林右昌部長時候就已經答應了所以我們想一共5點5點多億1月21號通過之後沒關係我們會處理希望在10天間 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
37255.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
37271.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
我們希望在春節前的十天撥進去春節前的十天春節前的十天但是你的三股是1月21號嗎?我自己講的部分就是說我們去處理這個我們已經完成了一些預算的這個撥補的程序所以沒有問題我們去先編好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
37273.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
37282.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
審查委員楊曜等19年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等19年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及第六十七條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
37297.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
37297.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
審查委員蘇清泉等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
37318.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
37345.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
我真的要向委員報告,因為我們這個部份的事情有去跟每一個應該處理的黨團都有請教過,沒有人會反對這個案。我相信當然沒有人敢反對這個案,不是沒有人會反對,是沒有人敢反對就對了。但是因為我反對議員的審查、定署、拖延的時間,跟這套的意義,你如果完全三道,過年是這套的儀表嘛,我如果記錯了,那你會作弊,我就是過年才會知道。沒關係,我如果知道說一定會過,我會先去做啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
37346.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
37356.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
你就是一件事,你有錢也是一件事,你要執行一定是三十幾年才能執行嘛,你不可能提早執行嘛,你要去提早執行,你提早執行就代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
37358.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
37361.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
37389.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
37390.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
邱奕英委員吳立華委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
37413.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
37439.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
委員好部長好辛苦了我過去在內政委員會常常來質詢關於原住民的選制跟選政那我想跟部長就是分享一下因為這些問題我每一題都問過很多次我也有很多的提案版本但是呢好像一直被漠視 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
37440.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
37445.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
37462.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
37474.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
但是我們的選罷法卻允許缺額的狀況。怎麼說呢?因為在選罷法第七十條第二項的後段 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
37475.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
37494.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
他這麼寫,他把原住民的立委跟直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表、原住民區的區民代表,他是視同一樣,就是同一個選舉區內缺額達二分之一的時候才能夠做普選投票。 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
37495.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
37523.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
也就是說按照我們現在三元假設三位如果要達到二分之一以上我們就會變成什麼呢二分之一就是要兩位要兩位才能補選三個立委兩個初試才能補選然後如果單一來看三元假設缺一個平原缺一個等同六個立法委員缺兩個其實也都不能補選 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
37525.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
37534.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
所以這樣的狀況以前有沒有發生有例如第八屆的平地原住民立委他在2013年被判刑定讞 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
37535.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
37549.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
解除職務。從2013到2016改選前那個時候立法院就少了一個原名立委嚴重的傷害我們的參政權所以本席有提出過選報法70條、71條、73條希望能夠去做如果一旦有缺額就有補選或遞補的規定但是很遺憾沒有引起共鳴 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
37561.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
37577.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
另外我也要提大家都知道我們原住民立委很辛苦因為選區很大為什麼?憲法增修條文在2005年的時候國民大會覆決通過了所以立委第七屆的席次減半變為113席從那個時候開始區域立委是單一選區多數決 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
37583.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
37601.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
我們原住民立委又來了跟地方民代相同複數選區單計非讓渡投票次這讓我們疲於奔命最沒有經濟能力的原住民立委不論是在選舉或者是在服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
37603.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
37613.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
都是那麼大的等同總統的選區所以我想要問一下部長哪一條法律告訴我們說原住民的選區一定要全國這個選區劃分是誰的權責選區的劃分好像是由中選會來定定我們的選務機關嗎是那因為時間的關係我直接講我希望修正選罷法第35條 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
37632.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
37652.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
37659.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
37680.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
我們原住民立委很難以世代交替然後很快速的我再跟部長再講一個問題這個問題我質詢過11次就是我們原住民在都會區沒有憲法保障秘密投票高達3663間也就是原住民開票所的五分之一投票及亮票 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
37681.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
37697.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
降低我們的投票意願所以我也說要修第十七條能不能夠中選會這個地方同意我們不再急轉投票還有幽靈人口更可怕因為我們原住民自從有了刑法的第146條的徵修 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
37699.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
37723.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
慘了一選完舉很多人就去抓誰是投票前回來的即便是他的侄女他的表妹通通都觸犯刑法146條所以呢我也希望能夠修正選罷法第57條的第三項能夠不受第17條第一項的限制應在戶籍地投票的限制以上我只是要表達感慨我們原住民的這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
37728.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
37748.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
我已經不知道每一個議題都不知道質詢過多少次也有提案版本從來沒有獲得大家的共鳴內心很難過希望我們的選政單位選務單位還有各位立委同仁我們大家一起努力好不好還有很多的事情是值得我們努力的謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝吳委員接下來請傅昆奇總莊傅昆奇總莊傅昆奇總莊不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
37755.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
37777.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
廖先祥委員 廖先祥委員 廖先祥委員不在何欣淳委員 何欣淳委員 何欣淳委員不在林德福委員 林德福委員 林德福委員不在王定宇委員 王定宇委員 王定宇委員不在張家俊委員 張家俊委員 張家俊委員不在沈發慧委員 沈發慧委員 沈發慧委員不在秦理昆成委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
37789.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
37801.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
謝謝主席,那我們請這個劉部長或是這個李主委等一下我質詢的部分會就交這兩位好請劉部長,還有李主委我們一起好不好,沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
37805.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
37829.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
這個其實我們今天問了一整天都是在問這個有關這個鳥籠罷免的事情那這個鳥籠罷免其實已經有一條在朝野協商了就是身份證連署的事情要付身份證影本那另外還有一個就是今天本來要去審查的就是說這個我們要把它加嚴那就是說除了這個身份證影本之外呢你這個罷免的票數要比當選的票數還要高這就是鳥籠罷免那其實剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
37835.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
37858.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
很多委員都已經有提過了那我先問這一個內政部劉部長請問一下我今天看到一則新聞他就說這一個內政部這個解除這個前南投縣這個十起委員議員他是中配的資格請問一下為什麼是所以他已經這一個卸任了那為什麼是解除他的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
37858.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
37886.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
是,因為我們根據國籍法20條就是說有這個具有中國籍的這個台灣的這個有戶籍的這個人參選他當選上以後根據國籍法呢他應該要放棄他國國籍那給他們一年的時間來放棄那因為十選院議員呢他是遞補上去的所以呢在那個南投縣議會公告他當選以後呢他其實我們發現到說他在一年內啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
37887.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
37896.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
並沒有放棄他的他國國籍所以我們就引用國籍法已經發公文給石雪業本人還有南投縣議會就解除他的議員的職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
37898.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
37903.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
所以說他沒有放棄中國的國籍就對了嗎目前是這樣子有沒有放棄中國國籍這是第一個在我們的相關的護意證系統裡面查不到那要希望他能夠提出他具體的證明說他有沒有放棄那我們也問過南投縣議會南投縣議會應該在一年前就知道這個部分南投縣議會也沒有辦法回應這個問題所以我們的判斷是他並沒有放棄就是他沒有辦法提出證明他有放棄中國的國籍就對了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
37927.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
37931.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
按照國籍法的第十條規定外國人不得擔任總統副總統國籍法第20條也規定說中華民國國民取得外國國籍者 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
37943.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
37962.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
不得擔任中華民國的公職然後呢總統副總統選舉罷免法也規定說具有外國國籍者不得申請登記為總統副總統候選人這規定很清楚但是呢關於這個縣市首長立法委員或是說什麼縣市議員有沒有說具有雙重國籍不能登記參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
37964.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
37985.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
他只要是符合選罷法的規定涉及在我們他的選區裡面四個月以上他是具有中華民國國籍符合涉及的要件即便是他有外國的國籍所謂的雙重國籍並無礙於他的候選人的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
37985.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
37987.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：計六案：計六案： |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
38001.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
38003.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
38020.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
38044.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
就是你就是當選無效嘛是不是要解職要解職好那我現在問一個比較實際的問題我剛才看到這個陸委會他最新的一個民調有74%的人認為中配擔任立法委員等公職需要放棄中華人民共和國的國籍這是我剛才看到這個陸委會最新的民調74%認為說如果是中配啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
38046.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
38049.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
38066.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
38089.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
報告委員在立法委員宣誓的那一天是對著大法官宣誓的所以你們會有個拒絕書就是要克遵中華民國的憲法那還有我了解就是立法委員也要簽一個沒有這個其他國籍的這樣子的拒絕書所以他在當選的那一天就已經告訴這個台灣的中華民國的人民說他已經只有具備中華民國國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
38090.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
38094.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
38111.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
38139.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
這要由立法院來決定因為第一個如果他現在是當選的狀態當中要解職不符合國籍法的規定要解職的話要由立法院來告訴他他被解職因為這是一層一層這個層轉上去那由立法院來決定說他在這個服務的這個時間呢他需不需要退還他在立法委員裡面所取得的薪水及其他相關的薪資補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
38141.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
38164.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
我是想其實我們這個公職人員選舉罷免法應該做個修正因為你現在就是說雙重國籍你可以參選但是你如果當選之後你要才能放棄一年之內放棄會有這個一年的空窗期其實應該像這個總統副總統選舉罷免法一樣就是說你如果具有雙重國籍的話其實你就不能登記參選或是說你如果是不分區的話你就是不能登記為這個不分區的候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
38165.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
38179.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
委員報告,因為在選罷法以前的67條後來被取消掉,就是會註銷當選立法委員的資格,但是因為過去被註銷掉,所以現在引用的都是用國籍法為原則。 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
38181.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
38209.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
我是希望說不要有這個漏洞或是空窗期啦就變成說大家就是你在參選的時候具有雙重國籍然後變成說你當選一年之內你才要放棄那就會衍生說像現在這個民眾黨的他這個不分區的立委或是像這一個南投縣這個議員一樣明明具有這一個雙重國籍但是他一樣可以這個登記為不分區或是一樣可以來參選縣市議員甚至搞不好參選立委都有可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
38210.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
38214.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
報告委員就我所了解包括縣市議會臺北市議會跟高雄市議會都曾經把我們在民國98年的時候所謂國籍法裡面不允許雙重國籍的部分發給其他的當選的議員請他們簽所以事實上確實有議員本身因為有雙重國籍然後被取消他的當選資格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
38233.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
38259.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
所以我還是一樣就是第一個議會自己本身其實就是所謂的這個民意代表的一個主管機關它是否具有雙重國籍還是按照國籍法的規定能夠做嚴格的把關那立法院呢那我也知道立法院就是要立法院要立法院譬如說可能要立法院院會通過那那個我也知道有些立委也提出比較嚴格的這個修正案謝謝部長謝謝主委謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
38261.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
38263.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
二、審查委員蔡奇昌等2二、審查委員馬文君等2 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
38282.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
38308.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
羅美玲委員、羅美玲委員、羅美玲委員不在賴瑞隆委員、賴瑞隆委員、賴瑞隆委員不在王世堅委員、王世堅委員、王世堅委員不在陳廷飛委員、陳廷飛委員、陳廷飛委員不在洪孟凱委員、洪孟凱委員、洪孟凱委員不在林黛樺委員、林黛樺委員、林黛樺委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
38310.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
38329.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
登記發言的委員除不在場者其餘均已發言完畢,詢答結束。委員高津素梅、鄭正前、洪孟凱所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
38331.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
38353.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
本日議程討論事項一所列的預算案令定期繼續審查相關預算提案請於113年12月16日星期一中午12點前送至內政委員會會診以利後續審查作業進行報告委員會現在進行宣讀討論事項二所有條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
38364.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
38364.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
徐宇珍委員提高當選 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
38380.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
38391.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉� |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
38401.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
38410.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公� |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
38417.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
38424.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
提案來進行更專業的對話尤其這也攸關公民朋友的選舉罷免珍貴的憲法賦權所以我是利用這個最後的時間還是很懇切的向昭偉提出這樣的請求我想這個我們在場也有張宏祿昭偉我們剛在台下的商量也是很希望說如果在具體未來進入逐條討論之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
38442.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
38443.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
二、審查委員吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
38470.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
38490.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
第三十二條,臺灣民眾黨黨團提案,增訂第七項,當選人未依法完成就職選舉委員會應以書面通知其餘三十日內繳回已領取及依前項先予扣除之保證金金額,藉其不繳回者依法亦送行政治刑,但應有不可規則於當選人之事由者除外,其餘同現行條文。第四十三條,臺灣民眾黨黨團提案, |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
38492.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
38515.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
政定第八項,第一項對候選人競選費用之補貼若當選人未依法完成就職則不應給予補貼選舉委員會應以書面通知其餘三十日內繳回已領取及依第四項先予扣除之補貼金額藉其不繳回者依法依送行政執行但應有不可規則於當選人之事由者除外其餘同性行條文。第五十二條委員陳冠廷等二十五人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
38516.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
38540.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
第一項中段增訂非政黨推薦候選人未經政黨授權不得在宣傳品上使用政黨負責人頭像、政黨負責人姓名與政黨標章其餘同現行條文。第53條委員翁曉琳等16人提案第一項前段10日前修正為3日前第三項前段投票日前10日修正為前3日其餘同現行條文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
38541.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
38564.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
第67條委員楊曜等17人提案第一項後段增訂並修正為票數相同時各主管選舉委員會應於投票日後7日內向第126條規定之管轄法院申請查封全部或一部分投票所之選舉員名冊及選舉票就查封之投票所於20日內完成重新計票並將重新計票結果通知各主管選舉委員會各主管選舉委員會應於7日內 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
38566.696 |
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38595.165 |
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一、管轄法院重新計票結果審定選舉結果若重新計票結果人為票數相同時以抽籤決定之其餘同現行條文。第六十九條委員楊曜等17人提案第八項增訂或依第六十七條第一項辦理重新計票其餘同現行條文委員蘇清泉等23人提案第一項前段有效票數千分之三以內時修正為有效票數千分之十以內時其餘同現行條文 |
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38596.005 |
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38620.987 |
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第七十五條委員徐宇珍等39人提案。第一項後段修正為但就職未滿一年者不得為罷免之提議與連署其餘同性行條文。第九十條委員徐宇珍等39人提案。第一項後段修正為且同意票數超過被罷免人當選得票數並達原選舉區選舉人總數四分之一以上即為通過其餘同性行條文。 |
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38626.078 |
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38636.491 |
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討論事項二所列的法案審查,我們另定期繼續審查。本次會議到此結束,現在散會。大家辛苦了,謝謝。 |
| IVOD_ID |
16344 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16344 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-14 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-05T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-05T19:14:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |